TedNugent wrote:

tulun wrote:
I'd rather take 3 Mega Nobs than 10 boys + saw.

I just mean to fill out your mandatory troop slots, and one big 30 blob to mob them into so that they're not completely useless.

Honestly? Just don't take a battalion.

I can get enough slots from patrol + outrider/spearhead/vanguard for any list I want.

The loss of CP is sort of irrelevant, because Orks don't really need a bucket of CP right now. Without Loota / SSAG shoot twice + more dakka each turn, it feels like Orks CP consumption is really low.

Madjob wrote:


This FAQ seems to have managed to miss some of the glaring typos on other Ork IA data sheets.

Nice hit between the eyes! You' re absolutely right.

tulun wrote:
It only works with proper terrain, though, as the army is quite weak on the chin. But I could see it working out okay by trying to lean in to fully expect to get roughly tabled (minus your Big Meks hopefully) and just getting your other secondaries for sure and using your obsec army to bite / hold objectives.

Agree. He needs durability to protect the SAGs and hold the middle. It feels like terrain and luck was a factor.

I could see it work with KFF/Dok Tooled Boy blobs though as you want to prevent a breakthrough. An ablative shield to control your melee specialists engagements whilst the SAGs plus other shooty elements fires over the infantry.

The major upside is that you don´t really care about the fate of the midfield, as long you don´t get significantly behind on Primaries, due to most likely having more expected 2ndary VPs.

Is the SAG any good? It seemed pretty terrible for 120pts, the only real upside I saw was it being on a character. D6 shots with bs5+ seemed pretty rough, especially since you had to hope for a good strength roll and could always roll 1-2 damage with it.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Is the SAG any good? It seemed pretty terrible for 120pts, the only real upside I saw was it being on a character. D6 shots with bs5+ seemed pretty rough, especially since you had to hope for a good strength roll and could always roll 1-2 damage with it.

They used to be auto takes without any thought.

Now? Well. If you can keep them alive, and they are your While We Stand We Fight... they'll make their points back. 15 d6 Shock Attack Guns, shooting into a meta of elite infantry? Yeah, they'll do fine.

But generally they are not thought of as competitive.

The Look Out Sir! rule change alone was enough to dial the SAG back but they also ripped our amazing Super SAG relic away and made the damn thing 50% more expensive.

Yeah, it really was a combination of the specialist detachment's shoot twice strat, the relic, and the price that made the SAG as infamous as it was. As usual, GW overcorrected it when they saw how it was doing on the top tables. Given the current cost, the SAG should have a 2D6 or 3D3 shots baseline for their gun. Or keep them around the 80 point price like they were originally. We'll see how or if they touch it at all in the new Ork codex.

Is walker spam good for us this edition? I had some luck today with a 500 points list today featuring 5 Kanz, a Dread, and a Mega Mek with KFF and a Killsaw.

Also, for anyone thinking about it, nah, a 30 Grot mob is not good versus marines right now.

 Rismonite wrote:
Is walker spam good for us this edition? I had some luck today with a 500 points list today featuring 5 Kanz, a Dread, and a Mega Mek with KFF and a Killsaw.

Also, for anyone thinking about it, nah, a 30 Grot mob is not good versus marines right now.

Walker spam is largely limited from how they don't contest objectives very well and are a lot slower/less versatile than buggies, who have the mobility to easily reach their targets and, in the case of scrapjets, sometimes fight on par with our walkers when compared in terms of overall points. Kanz just don't do enough in terms of firepower and their CC is pretty limited outside of making them tin eadz, you're usually better off with meganobz in most cases if you want a CC block of tough dudes without giving away easy Bring it Down VP's.

Morkanaut with Sparkly Bitz is probably our best Walker model in terms of shooting and CC, but you can only buff one with Sparkly Bitz. The Mega Dread got a little more interesting as potential deep strike threat now that they had a price cut and change to the Mega Charga. Deff Dreadz aren't terrible (certainly better than Kanz) but don't have quite the survivability or oomph in either shooting or CC to outcompete our buggies. Gorkanaut unfortunately is outclassed by his shootier brother.

So you can definitely make a walker list and do alright in a semi-competitive context, just not in a real competitive setting. One new thing that added more interesting combos is Buzzgob's new command ability to give +1 to hit to Ork walkers, meaning you can buff a Goff Morkanaut to hitting on 3's which is practically unheard of. This is also another way to help circumvent the Kanz bad WS.

Hopefully our new codex addresses some of the issues pointswise or, more likely, give Ramshackle as standard to Ork vehicles across the board which will help our Walkers and make stuff like Dreaded Deff Machine something built into Dreads as a rule already.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
Is walker spam good for us this edition? I had some luck today with a 500 points list today featuring 5 Kanz, a Dread, and a Mega Mek with KFF and a Killsaw.

Also, for anyone thinking about it, nah, a 30 Grot mob is not good versus marines right now.

Walker spam is largely limited from how they don't contest objectives very well and are a lot slower/less versatile than buggies, who have the mobility to easily reach their targets and, in the case of scrapjets, sometimes fight on par with our walkers when compared in terms of overall points. Kanz just don't do enough in terms of firepower and their CC is pretty limited outside of making them tin eadz, you're usually better off with meganobz in most cases if you want a CC block of tough dudes without giving away easy Bring it Down VP's.

Morkanaut with Sparkly Bitz is probably our best Walker model in terms of shooting and CC, but you can only buff one with Sparkly Bitz. The Mega Dread got a little more interesting as potential deep strike threat now that they had a price cut and change to the Mega Charga. Deff Dreadz aren't terrible (certainly better than Kanz) but don't have quite the survivability or oomph in either shooting or CC to outcompete our buggies. Gorkanaut unfortunately is outclassed by his shootier brother.

So you can definitely make a walker list and do alright in a semi-competitive context, just not in a real competitive setting. One new thing that added more interesting combos is Buzzgob's new command ability to give +1 to hit to Ork walkers, meaning you can buff a Goff Morkanaut to hitting on 3's which is practically unheard of. This is also another way to help circumvent the Kanz bad WS.

Hopefully our new codex addresses some of the issues pointswise or, more likely, give Ramshackle as standard to Ork vehicles across the board which will help our Walkers and make stuff like Dreaded Deff Machine something built into Dreads as a rule already.

I think you also need to capitalise on movement when it comes to our Walkers, as you said they are just slower buggies. So that means your either deepstriking them or you have to find a way to increase how fast they go and thats Evil Sunz. You loose out on the efficiency of Deffskulls and the accuracy/lethality of Goffs when taking Buzzgob. A mob of Deff Dreads with Orkymatic Pistons moving a min 11+ D6 then charging with a +1 if your using a Deffkilla to advance and charge can help them cross the gap, Morka/Gorka with someone inside with Rezmekka's Redder Armour to get the big boi moving atleast 10" and a Mega Dread to reliably make charges without the need for Ramming Speed. I think thats the way to go. Get them up on the points as fast as you can and body block objectives as best as you can.

But a pure Dreadwaaagh! force is most likely bound to crumple and fail. It just isnt killy, durable and numerous enough to hold onto primaries, score secondaries and also deny Bring it Down. Yeah ive been championing for DDM to be baked into our Walkers and Ramshackle to be more widespread, here is hoping we get it.

I know they're suboptimal due to point hikes, but what's the best way to use Flash Gitz these days, and what delivery method do you recommend? Does it change things if they're in a Freebootaz detachment? I'm planning to model a pirate ship for them, either on trakks (if they need to be in a BW), wheels (trukk) or underneath a zeppelin (chinork -- is that thing even allowed these days?). Forgeworld isn't a problem since I'll be kitbashing their transport, but I need to get an idea of what size I should build it before I start.

thanks!

-Coh

If they're Freebootas they might benefit from the klan's trait which gives them +1 to hit if triggered, so yeah things might change if they're Freebootas.

In 8th the best way to use them was to field a max squad shielded by tons of Gretchins and backed up by Mek Gunz in order to trigger the klan bonus with artillery and buff the Flash Gitz' armour save with Loot It when a Mek Gunz was wrecked.

At the moment I'd only play them as a 5 man squad in a Trukk. Too many points invested otherwise, plus Blast malus if they are 6 or more, and can still make us of Loot It if they're transport blows up.

Make sure to have a KFF aura and enough T5-8 models to avoid making them priority target.

6 in a kannon wagon might also be a decent idea.

 Jidmah wrote:
6 in a kannon wagon might also be a decent idea.

Agree, it seems a legit combination, however I see a few downsides here. First, weapons' ranges might be in conflict: Flash Gitz need to get closer at least for a turn while Kannon Wagon loves to stay away from possible threats (see Melta). They're also two Heavy Support choices instead of one and a higher investment of points.

 TedNugent wrote:
Are people still using Mob Up these days?

I was thinking it would be a good way to get multiple killsaws into a single unit and secure that +1 attack. It also makes it pretty interesting for Da Jump.

With the limited number of ranks that can engage in combat, I feel like that's a more efficient option. If I can cram just two dual killsaw nobs into front rank, that's 10 killsaw attacks.

I just don't want to take 90 boyz at 8 ppm. I find 30 boyz + 2 10 man units more appealing. I like the idea of moar hidden power klaws.

Arguably you could never get moar hidden power klaws than right now with green tide and mob up.

I have been pondering the use of Mob up to slingshot big mobs into combat and get them across the board faster. My theory is that, if I can throw a couple of trukks ahead of my army, but keep the slugga boys inside, and give the opponent bigger things to shoot like buggies and such, what with the fact that trukkboys are sub-par being common knowledge, and then turn 2 get the trukkboys out, move the big mob forward, mob up the two together and suddenly that 30 strong ork unit which was going to arrive in turn 3 is connecting on turn 2, and it's 40 boys instead of 30! they won't all get into the combat but it's 2D6" extra movement for the big mob and combat protection if the enemy can't retreat.

The other taktik, if it works out that way, is to get the trukkers around the back of a small enemy unit and within mob-up range of the big mob of boys, and then you have them surrounded. A lot of people will be running the maths that slugga-trukkas aren't going to hit too hard, and there's onyl so many orks can get in combat from over there. Suddenly the trukkas are getting an extra attack, and their unit is completely surrounded.

I'm also-also considering using a mob of boys in a wagon with 2 trukks as backup. Turn 1 rush forwards, turn 2 disembark, mob up & charge, turn 3 mob up with the other trukkas to plug holes in the unit and then go after more enemies!


In other news, had a brief game this weekend against necrons, I ran 3 killtanks (2 bursta one giga), with 2 KFF meks, 5 meganobs, 20 gretchin, waaagh! banner nob and a runtherd. Not sure why I brought the runtherd, to be honest, I think I just wanted to see how he did. Killtanks are beastly against armies counting on high damage weapons (I ramshackled the one-shot 6 damage tachyon arrow down to 1 damage, that was nice!). Alas we only made it to turn 2, with him just scraping through enough damage to kill one killtank and me managing to decimate a few chunks of his army in return. Could have gone either way, but he had a lot of objectives on turn 2 so got 15 points to my 0. ended at 32-18, I believe. didn't chalk it up as it only lasted 2 turns and so isn't a satisfying conclusion. I forgot a lot of my stratagems and only remembered ramshackle once, so yeah, I did a bit poorly!
Next time I'm running the same list but scrapping deathskulls (thought falling back & shooting would be worth it; it isn't) and probably going for deathskulls. It's such a shame killtanks get +1 to hit and not +1BS in half range, or I would absolutely be taking freebootas! Taktic is to roll forward shooting, drop grots on objectives, and then combine ramming speed and the stratagem to charge again to hopefully plough through a weak unit and into another, with 2D3 MW and 3D6" charge, which (by my reading) affects both charges in that phase, so could easily move an extra 24" with 2 long charges and mortal wounds! Killtanks are also awesome in close combat ,and chew through elites with 3 wounds amazingly well! I hadn't expected to get 8 S9 AP-1 Dam3 attacks!

 some bloke wrote:

I'm also-also considering using a mob of boys in a wagon with 2 trukks as backup. Turn 1 rush forwards, turn 2 disembark, mob up & charge, turn 3 mob up with the other trukkas to plug holes in the unit and then go after more enemies!

I play this combination a lot. 18 boyz + big mek with KFF and warboss in a wagon and 2x10 trukk boyz. Wagon and one trukk rush forward, deploy their cargo and boyz mob up into a 28 man blob with two nobz. I quite like it as all involved units are cheap enough to worth the effort, even if grand plan is ruined in turn 1 by going second. I typically rush the second trukk into a different direction but it can also join the party in turn 3.

I had a recent game on TTS with a friend of mine using White Scars against me, his list was with Korsarro Khan, a chief apothecary, 2 squads of inceptors, a jump pack lieutenant and a jump pack chapter master with the teeth of terra, 2 10 man squads of intercessors, a squad of scouts, 2 squads of infiltrators and an 8 man squad of Vanguard Vets with lightning claws and SS. It was a game I thought I would lose badly since I was using a very mechanized list with very little bodies so I wasn't sure if I could contest well enough.

Here was my list.



Luckily, I got first turn and we were playing Sweep and Clear. I went for Engage on All Fronts, Assassinate and the Mission secondary, Direct Assault, which meant I had to hold the middle for 3 VP or 5VP for holding the middle and enemy objective.

The first turn I drove my bursta and my gigashoota kill tank into the center and blasted half of an intercessor squad and killed a few in the other, unfortunately he chose to use Transhuman Physiology so my Bursta did less damage than it should have. I pushed on the left flank with my scrapjets alongside my killa klaw boss against one of the neutral objectives that he hwas holding with infiltrators. Luckily, I managed to roll high enough for my advance rolls that I was able to promptly dispatch the infiltrators between my Warboss and the skrapjet. I made the mistake of charging my bursta kill tank into one of the intercessors squads so I could get the jump on him. I did kill a few with my flat 3 damage (tasty!) but their return attacks did a lot more damage than I expected due to them being supported by their HQ bubble behind them. The way I positioned my charge with the Kill Tank allowed my opponent to pile in towards the objective in the center I was trying to hold, making me lose it in the process (whoops!) and miss out on an early 3 VP for Direct Assault. I moved towards the left neutral objective with my other Kill Tank with Gigashoota

On my opponent's turn he fell back with his intercessors and brought his inceptors out of cover and promptly slagged my kill tank bursta with all the HQ buffs he could muster. He charged his intercessors into the other kill tank that was in the middle, though he didn't do too much damage, he was trying to hold me off from moving toward the center objective. His vanguard squad also came out to play against my kill tank threatening the neutral objective, supported by Khan who went after one of my shokkjump dragstas nearby. That +1 to wound and reroll to wounds and the adaptive strategy stratagem that let the whole squad count as being in all doctrines did real work against my kill tank, bringing it down to 4 wounds. Khan destroyed the dragsta and he got the lead with his Titan Killer secondary and Domination. The only area he miscalculated was charging my Kill Tank in the middle, as he only inflicted one wound while I killed 3 in return, leaving on a single guy left but enough to hold the central objective from me.

I fought back in my T2, my friend was nice enough to tell me about the Butchering Quarry strat that lets a WS player inflict hits on a retreating unit so I kept my barely alive Kill Tank in combat with the Vanguard Vets rather than fall back. I sent my Warboss on Warbike that was my warlord against the Khan and deployed the Meganobz inside the almost dead Kill Tank against the Infiltrators currently holding that neutral objective. In the middle, I shot at the Inceptor squad with my only unbracketed Kill Tank and killed a few and flamed the guy in front of the center objective to no avail. I started advancing my scrapjets on the left side to the center, taking a few potshots at the Inceptors. I jumped one of Shokkjump dragstas to where the Khan was to try and snipe him but my opponent passed all his iron halo saves for him. This forced me to commit my warboss to killing him rather than the VV, but luckily my Kill Tank rolled like Gork had blessed it himself and shot at the VV in combat with him, reducing them to only 3 VV left. Unfortunately for me, my opponent's luck in passing invuln saves continued, and due to using transhuman again on the Khan, I only reduced him to 2 wounds, and the Khan proceeded to reduce my Warboss on Bike warlord to 2 wounds as well. My Meganobz fared even worse, barely killing two infiltrators on the right neutral objective, and suffered two wounds in return. The VV were able to finish off my Killtank sadly. The only area where I won my fight was in the center, where I ran over the last intercessor holding the center.

On my opponent's T2, my opponent started his counter attack, once again unloading into my Kill Tank with his Inceptors being buffed up and some coming back due to his blasted Apothecary. He ended up killing my Kill Tank in the middle by finishing it off between the Chapter Master, the Lieutenant and the Inceptors, while one of the Inceptor units went back into his deployment zone to deploy scramblers. His scouts showed up to deploy scramblers in my deployment zone and the Khan fell back to charge my Warboss on Warbike. The VV charged into my Meganobz while having the Infiltrators fall back. Needless to say, my Warboss died. Things were looking bad for me here.

T3 was the turning point, as my Scrapjets were finally able to reach the middle and really started letting loose against the Inceptor squad currently shielding the characters holding the middle. I got super lucky and got the box cars I needed for one of my Scrapjets to get a charge against the Inceptors from behind a wall so they couldn't over watch and he even got 3 mortal wounds off his 4+ proc ability. As a result, the meganobz with killsaws were able to get in unmolested with the charge. The shokkjump dragsta teleported over to the now exposed Apothecary and shot at him, bringing him down to 1 wound which I finished off with a skrapjet. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to do much to the CM and the Lieutenant. Luckily, after using the Hit Them Harder strat for the Meganobz, even with transhuman protection I was able to get exactly the amount of wounds needed to wipe out the Inceptors. I also managed to shoot up the scout squad down to just the sergeant, who would prove to be a very annoying thorn in my side.

T3 for my opponent was where he kinda threw the game. He should have just played keep away with his characters, but he decided to gamble destroying my vehicles with his current units to stop my board control. Unfortunately for him he whiffed on several crucial wound rolls and that meant that although the majority of my units were tied in combat and wounded, my following turn allowed me to shoot into combat, which combined with combat, assassinate several key characters that gave me the points for assassinate and direct assault now that the center was mine. I also used one of the freed dragstas to kill the remaining infiltrators and take control of the whole board. Hilariously, throughout the last 2 turns, the lone scout sergeant went after my grots and methodically killed them in combat, where they surprisingly only ever lost one person to morale consistently before finally meeting their end at the end of T4, which allowed him to take my home objective, but at that point he was literally the only model he had left on the table.

Our game ended with it being 84 points to my opponent's 79. Really brutal, bloody and close game. I really thought my opponent just had the win mid-game, but I guess that's why you play through the whole game through.

Shout out to Tulun helping me formulate this list, the meganobz choice was a real good call. Also, I tried making the bursta cannon work, but I think it's just too variable and easily countered by stuff like transhuman to make it worth paying the extra 50 points. You also can't shoot into combat with it.

Overall, the Kill Tanks were fun, but I feel like my buggies did more than they did comparatively speaking. At best they were distraction carnifexes. Might have to do a bit with my aggressive deployment of them, but I'm not sure.

Well, next game with my long time tune up buggy list and finaly I had the feeling that I play it right and that I know what happen next and why and what are my models capable of.

List:


Couple of issiues I have presented there already but I feel, it' s a time to do some sumary:

0. I play Engage, Deploy Fungus, 3rd according the enemy and mission.

1. General game plan =
1.1 - T1 and T2 - feed enemy antitank with -1 hit 5++ planes scaring him to death and start killing enemy antitank with shockjumps, smashas, wazboom, and little bit of scrapjets. The key is keep scrapjets safe, you will need them later and DO NOT EADBUTT the Flyier unless you have realy juicy target to do 20+ dmg or the plane is almost dead. Their value is to keep the rest of you army safe and waste his anti tank shots on -1 hit targets. And help with Engage.
1.2 - In the same time both transports move forward and depending on situation charge, or keep in cover to charge T2. Plus BW works like a riding LOS blocking wall to keep scrapjets safe.
1.3 - Smashagunz spread as much as possible to make perfect screen. half or more of them usually advance. It doesn' t matter they can' t shoot after advance. Due the blocking LOS they can't shoot 60% of the game. But they are cheap and they CAN shoot, if enemy is stupid enough to drive in their LOS and this makes his moves harder.
1.4 - All moves optimized to
- screen as much of the table as possible in T1 and T2 to block his deepstriking dudes (pretty commen here.. skip this in case there are no DS enemies)
- get max of Engage.
1.5 - I have 3 units of Kommandos in DS. Two of them are super cheap and one of them are with the PK Nob. At least one barebone kommandos drop in T2 and T3 to do the scrablers. And if they can afterwards stay on objective and hold it, nice. Nob Kommandos drop to the enemy lines to annoy or to my lines to help defend.
1.7 - I keep my objective and try to control or keep in “no mans land” the midfield objectives.
1.8 - on the end of T3 most of his antitank is dead or “under control” and I hold cca half of the table. All planes destroied and both transports destroid and the Boyz with characters are on the rage. Baldruk in the middle on the building or something like this. As much as possible of Scrapjets is alive. Scramblers done. Engage scored to at least at least 7VP. My Primaries doesn't matter so much, plan is to score 2x15 in last 2 turns. Important are his Primaries, I need to keep him as low as possible. 5VP from T3 is almost mandatory.
1.9 - Around the T3 and after all his DS dropped my advance start. Smashagunz runz to final postitions to crossfire crucial objectives. Scrapjets forward to the midfield objectives or on one of his own. I always chose on of his own objectives and ignore it and focus on the rest. I even drop my home objective if necessary to get smashgunz to right position. The primaries should in T3 and no later than T4 1 objective holds the enemy, 2 are mine, the rest is no mans land.

Comments:
2.1 Grot mob does not helps the smashgunz so much with hit 1 reroll but helps a lot with 6++
2.2 Kaptin Baldruk is the beast for the fair price! Kills a lot, hides well. And if you sit him on the top of the building and park the BW behind and keep them 3” away, he' s immortal
2.3 Scrapjets + corkscrew is the key. No more discuss about squig tyres. When I found how to use it, Crokscrew is the best. Just keep scrapjets safe until the final stage, when antitank is gone!
2.4 Big Trukk is perfect! Finaly cheap transport that can kill something. One round of shooting and then charge with Ramming speed positivelly kill the small units of scions or such stuff. And the speed is perfect. Vanila Trukk is useless garbage in compare.
2.5 Smashagunz - well, cheap screening body.... I' working on KBB' s right now, from January I will try to change some SMG to KBB and try combinations with 1, 2 or 3 KBBs and 4, 2, 0 SMGs. Or maybe 2xKBB and one more Dragsta. SMG unreliability and bad movement and permanetly blocked LOS makes me angry. Plus my army has a serious lack of anti infantry.
2.6 Only strategems I use are - Ramming speed, Emergency disemark (that is really cool btw - disembark behind the building? Bloody yess) and command rerolls. And sometimes Get stuck in ladz and Ork is never beaten. Nothing more.
2.7 “Keep scrapjets safe in back” is also a good solution of “Traffic jam issue”. Dragstas and transports have a space to position right - see and not be seen.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd be surprised if they make nauts LoW. They keep stuffing the idea of multiple nauts down our throat, if anything they'd do something to incentivize bringing multiples.

Well actually just like the Killtanks, Nauts becoming LoW does sit perfectly well with GW stuffing the idea of multiple nauts down our throat. Because 3 nauts will then have a klan trait, whereas one or two will mean aux super heavy detachment, so no klan traits whatsoever.

IMHO they are not really big enough to fit the LoW weight class, and are perfectly fine in the "big" heavy support slot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:

 Scactha wrote:

tulun wrote:
Someone won a small RT with this Ork list:

https://downunderpairings.com/ArmyList.php?ArmyID=30519

Cheeky bugger. He used the SAG meks as a while we stand we fight choice, and basically his entire army is Obsec and infantry.

That's clever. I love when people think VP strategically and not just the ever yammer on how to best kill stuff (cuz more dead models always equals more win...right?). I bet it threw most opponents that suddenly they had to reach the Orks dz whilst fighting the midfield primary objectives game. A much harder thing to do than the normal fight-the-middle and circle around for Engage and Scramblers.

There´s an added bonus that he probably had an easier time screening out his dz to negate enemy Scramblers too. Win win

Kunnin' Ork there.

But yeah, I agree. It only works with proper terrain, though, as the army is quite weak on the chin. But I could see it working out okay by trying to lean in to fully expect to get roughly tabled (minus your Big Meks hopefully) and just getting your other secondaries for sure and using your obsec army to bite / hold objectives.

This list is absolutely terrible, even more so in the current meta of harlequins, Sm with eradicators and Demon armies. How on earth did he do anything with it is beyond me, even at an RTT. Terrain or no terrain, I feel the list hits like a wet noodle, and has no durability at all. Yes it has ob sec, but 5 stormboyz dont nab an objective for more than one turn. And it also has no great way of removing troops, so I don't thinks it's that good on objective playing, unless you are up against custodes or harlequins maybe.
The trukks are probably used to protect the SAGs, which makes a total cost of close to 500 points for 2 trukks and 3d6 SAG shots (indeed with losts of rerolls, true).

I think the player is REALLY good, like Richard Siegler good (or the opponents were really caught off guard by the weirdness of such a list, and misplayed a lot), because this has to be hands down the worst 9th ed ork list (in the current AT focused meta) to have ever won a tournament (list that I know of).

 Tomsug wrote:
Well, next game with my long time tune up buggy list and finaly I had the feeling that I play it right and that I know what happen next and why and what are my models capable of.

I'm also quite fond of Badrukk, IMHO it's the best choice for the second smaller detachment that has a klan trait that doesn't give any benefit to the HQ like the grot mobz one. I'm sure it's just a mistake, but maybe there's something I'm missing so I ask you anyway: why the third squad of kommandos is part of the grot detachment instead of being Deathskulls?

 Grimskul wrote:
I

Shout out to Tulun helping me formulate this list, the meganobz choice was a real good call. Also, I tried making the bursta cannon work, but I think it's just too variable and easily countered by stuff like transhuman to make it worth paying the extra 50 points. You also can't shoot into combat with it.

Overall, the Kill Tanks were fun, but I feel like my buggies did more than they did comparatively speaking. At best they were distraction carnifexes. Might have to do a bit with my aggressive deployment of them, but I'm not sure.

Congrats on the win! Sounds hard earned, that sounds like a real White Scars list.

The bursta did allow your 2 mega nob units to be unaccosted ( if I read this right) -- as they were in the Giga KT. So that's something. But yeah, although Kill tanks can fall back and shoot natively, you gotta Blood Axes or Evil Suns to get both. Transhuman is such a cancerous stratagem. I can't believe they made it *cheaper*, even if it's Primaris only.

addnid wrote:

I think the player is REALLY good, like Richard Siegler good (or the opponents were really caught off guard by the weirdness of such a list, and misplayed a lot), because this has to be hands down the worst 9th ed ork list (in the current AT focused meta) to have ever won a tournament (list that I know of).

The player is probably not Richard Siegler good, but is one of the best 40k players in Australia and is a pioneer of Ork strategy (inventing 8th Mega Nob list that made a splash). I wouldn't dismiss the list as soundly as you did, but it might require expert piloting. But that doesn't make the list bad.

 Blackie wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Well, next game with my long time tune up buggy list and finaly I had the feeling that I play it right and that I know what happen next and why and what are my models capable of.

I'm also quite fond of Badrukk, IMHO it's the best choice for the second smaller detachment that has a klan trait that doesn't give any benefit to the HQ like the grot mobz one. I'm sure it's just a mistake, but maybe there's something I'm missing so I ask you anyway: why the third squad of kommandos is part of the grot detachment instead of being Deathskulls?

I use the Patrol - just 2 troops - and patrol can have max 2 Elites.

My mistake then, I never play many elites and I thought patrol allowed 3-4 elites, as the battallion allows 6.

 Blackie wrote:
My mistake then, I never play many elites and I thought patrol allowed 3-4 elites, as the battallion allows 6.

Yeah playing with the different options patrol / batalion / vanguard was part of the tuning up. Complicated stuff... patrol was the best for this pourpos and who cares about no bonuses for naked kommandos dedicated to deploy and die. Just the obsec is a pitty. But if you want to use 2 detachements, this was the best option. Vanguard cost you more command points.

Hey guys. When using the deffkilla wartrikes killa jet attacks, so you have to pick one or the other profile? Im assuming you do.

Yes, it's essentially the same as a kombi-skorcha or the klaw of gork(or mork).

I See.

Well Merry Christmas everyone, for Christmas i received, a gorkanaut (or mork), a scrapjet, dragsta, battlewagon and mega nobz.

Oh and a AOS warchanter and weirdboy for 40k weirdboy conversions.

Cheers!!

Beardedragon wrote:
I See.

Well Merry Christmas everyone, for Christmas i received, a gorkanaut (or mork), a scrapjet, dragsta, battlewagon and mega nobz.

Oh and a AOS warchanter and weirdboy for 40k weirdboy conversions.

Cheers!!

Congrats on the big haul of loot! That will all serve you very well in the WAAAGH!'s you have to come.

Merry WAAAGH!mas everybody, Santy Klawz is coming to town and I'm assuming you've all been good grots this year, so expect a lot of dakka in your stockings!

Merry Xmas Boyz
This is my first time posting so I hope it goes to the right place lol
First off wanna say thank you to Jidmah for all the patience and good info in this thread
Lot of gems in here but after reading all 90+ pages I was frustrated to see how much complaining is going on despite the rules of the thread.
Been playing orks for 20+ years and if you don’t like green tide or don’t think it’s fun I am legit confused as to why you choose orks in the first place. Green tide is, always has been and always will be the optimal archetype for Ork lists. If you think 90+ boys are too expensive tell me how you feel after buying 10+ monopose buggies LOL. Green Tide works because it’s good not because people are building lists to play against primaris. Yes it works differently than it has in previous editions and the Boyz are not gonna kill whatever they charge but they also won’t get killed by morale either. I find the most success comes when you stick everything together you can’t peel off one squad of boys and expect them to be effective on their own anymore.

Before I get to my questions I wanna throw down some things that have been working for me in 9th edition that I haven’t seen in the thread.
1 Nobs in a truck with killsawz & big choppaz move onto objective when the truck gets popped loot it and now you have 3+ with all the killing power and more attacks than MANZ
2 headwoppa’s killchoppa on the warboss is a cheap alternative to the kills klaw and very effective at killing primaris plus it lets you give killa klaw to painboy or big Mek who desperately need more killing power
3 charge one target with multiple units seems obvious but it is really a necessity with how orks play in 9th

Now on too my questions
1 can you give a banner nob lucky stick does it stack?

2 mork or gork for a Goff tide list? Leaning hard towards gork but saw a lot of love for the mork in this thread

3 been playing a lot of primaris (surprise) and been very successful against blood angels but dark angels are giving my goffs a lot of trouble the opponent who I play who I always would stomp until the update now is seemingly impossible to deal with due to his death wing list having literally every model in the “inner circle” meaning can’t be wounded on a 4+ effectively ruling out skarboyz and pretty much all ork close combat weapons. I would assume people would say smash a guns are a good counter but I really don’t want to give up another secondary when I already give up thin their ranks and assassinate with my character heavy Goff tide.

Greenblood wrote:
1 Nobs in a truck with killsawz & big choppaz move onto objective when the truck gets popped loot it and now you have 3+ with all the killing power and more attacks than MANZ

You can't disembark (and charge) after moving though, and the big advantage of MANz in 9th is that they can kill pretty much everything off an objective and then hold it despite being under fire.
A trukk won't be able to take an objective from a marines unit, and nobz are quite likely to take heavy casualties from something like shuriken, haywire guns or doctrine-charged primaris bolters.
Flipping objectives is the key to winning games, and MANz just do that job better.

2 headwoppa’s killchoppa on the warboss is a cheap alternative to the kills klaw and very effective at killing primaris plus it lets you give killa klaw to painboy or big Mek who desperately need more killing power

I really like the killchoppa and have run it on several occasions, but in reality it's the kill klaw that is bringing a warboss or MA mek to carry it, not the other way around. You just want to have the best ork you can get to wield this close combat weapon of mass distruction.
And primaris really aren't the thing you want to go hunting with it - vehicles, monsters, gravis and terminators are what you want to smash with it. Other things can easily be ground down by other tools.

3 charge one target with multiple units seems obvious but it is really a necessity with how orks play in 9th

Not when you are running goff tide. The extra attacks from the trait, the extra strength for skar boyz and Thrakka's auras make most units powerful enough to just wipe the enemy. In addition, the 1/2" rule more often that no means that you won't get more boyz in combat, no matter how much stuff you charge in. When I charge one thing with multiple units, it's usually to gain speed or to make really, really sure that something is dead. Units with dangerous overwatch are rare, but they do exist. Don't charge a warboss into a Foul Blightspawn, for example.

Now on too my questions
1 can you give a banner nob lucky stick does it stack?

Yes, kind of. Characters within 6" would gain +2 to hit, which would cap out at +1 after all modifiers are applied. Since most characters have -1 to hit from their PK or killsaw, it would yield +1 to hit for any klaw wielder.

2 mork or gork for a Goff tide list? Leaning hard towards gork but saw a lot of love for the mork in this thread

The gork works best when tellyporting in, gun down something with the kustomized giga shoota and then slam into some hard target with ramming speed. Without an invulnerable save it tends to die the turn after it appears though, so make sure to leave a path of destruction behind.
The mork can have a KFF and the sparkly bits upgrade which turns it into a fairly reliable anti-tank unit and reduces the shooting against your army in turn 1, both things are something orks can use really well.

The competitive answer is that neither has any business being in a tide, as orks should never mix blobs of infantry and vehicles. In a less competitive environment, you should be able to get away with it though, as it's not a horrible unit.

The pragmatic answer is to just magnetize the thing. It's not super easy to do, but essentially you just need to magnetize the KFF on top and the main gun.

3 been playing a lot of primaris (surprise) and been very successful against blood angels but dark angels are giving my goffs a lot of trouble the opponent who I play who I always would stomp until the update now is seemingly impossible to deal with due to his death wing list having literally every model in the “inner circle” meaning can’t be wounded on a 4+ effectively ruling out skarboyz and pretty much all ork close combat weapons. I would assume people would say smash a guns are a good counter but I really don’t want to give up another secondary when I already give up thin their ranks and assassinate with my character heavy Goff tide.

Your opponent can't pick both assasinate and bring them down, as they are from the same category.
Since I don't own mek guns and the guy who used to lend them to me is no longer available, my answer to deathwing is Thrakka, killa klaw warboss/mekboss or MANz with the hit 'em harder stratagem. Every failed 4++ safe is a dead terminator.

I agree about MANZ being better than nobz I just threw that out there for people as an alternative I felt worthy of more exploration.

So the banner + lucky stick only stacks for characters?
I was hoping to get my killsaw MANZ to hit on 2+

Kommandos are strictly a minimum strength unit now?

Da Lucky Stikk only works for goff characters.

Kommadoz' use is to grab unprotected objectives and score secondaries. Adding additional bodies doesn't add to their ability to survive a focused attack, so the goal is to spend as little as possible and simply to prevent them from getting attacked at all.

Greenblood wrote:
I agree about MANZ being better than nobz I just threw that out there for people as an alternative I felt worthy of more exploration.

So the banner + lucky stick only stacks for characters?
I was hoping to get my killsaw MANZ to hit on 2+

Kommandos are strictly a minimum strength unit now?

Tin heads plus waaagh banner would do it.

Greenblood wrote:


Kommandos are strictly a minimum strength unit now?

Some play them as some sort of deep striking trukk boyz. 10 of them with a PK nob may be decent if your tactics involve assaulting weak units. They're exactly trukk boyz that can arrive wherever they need to be while being 55 pts cheaper. If deathskullz they even get Obj sec. Work decently also for lists that rely on multiple teleporting units like a da jumped mob of boyz and tellyported manz, to put 3-4 units in the face of the enemy.

You take min units only to score secondaries. Since they're very reliable for that purpose if you want kommandos to score secondaries keep them cheap, aka min units. They're not strctly a minimun strenght unit but 5 man squads are amazing tools that work for every kind of list, larger squads are basically a niche option that requires some effort and appropriate synergies to work.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:

Greenblood wrote:
I agree about MANZ being better than nobz I just threw that out there for people as an alternative I felt worthy of more exploration.

So the banner + lucky stick only stacks for characters?
I was hoping to get my killsaw MANZ to hit on 2+

Kommandos are strictly a minimum strength unit now?

Tin heads plus waaagh banner would do it.

Not anymore, modifiers are capped to +1. Both tin headz and waaagh banner bonus are +1 to hit. Tin eadz manz hit on 3s without the need of the banner but sadly can't improve their accuracy with the banner like other clans' meganobz.

 Blackie wrote:


Not anymore, modifiers are capped to +1. Both tin headz and waaagh banner bonus are +1 to hit. Tin eadz manz hit on 3s without the need of the banner but sadly can't improve their accuracy with the banner like other clans' meganobz.

As I understand, only the end result is limited to be +1 or -1, so Tin Eads gives +1, Banner (with Tin Eads klan keyword) gives +1 and killsaw -1 for a cumulative total of +1 to hit, very specifically not that only one modifier applies.

Relevant text for applying hit modifiers:
"A hit roll can never be modified by more than -1 or +1. This means that if, after all the cumulative modifiers to a hit roll have been calculated, the total modifier would be -2 or worse, it is changed to be -1. Similarly, if, after all the cumulative modifiers to a hit roll have been calculated, the total modifier would be +2 or better, it is changed to be +1."

Unless Im missing something about Tin Eads?

I forgot about that, you're totally right. For some reasons I was considering manz hitting on 3s like they were already using a +1 to hit bonus with no malus. Instead, they were on +(or -) 0 to hit bonus, due to the negative effect of klaws or saws. So yeah double +1 to hit is legit and cumulative if there's also a -1 to hit in play.

Edit: it's the killa kanz that don't have any minus to hit so the tin eadz kultur and waaagh banner don't stack on them.

So for a vanguard list of MANZ with Ghaz painboy banner nob mega KFF Tim heads could be a go but I think you give up more than you gain by not being Goff

You could technically stack 2 waaagh banners I think as well, but that seems a bit silly just to make your MANz hit on 2s.

I think 3s, re-rolling 1s, exploding 6s is just fine

Waaagh! Banners, just like all other auras, are worded in a way that they don't stack with themselves.

Fair. The actual legal way.

Waaagh banner, free booter warlord trait, FB clan trait.

2s, reroll 1s.

So today is my birthday, and I just happened to go into a GW store, and found Gorzag and Nikkit, which just became available today. So I bought them, he has an ork boy statline with 'eavy armor, do I just plug him and Nikkit into the game for an Ork Boy?

He is a 'Commemorative Series' model if that helps

EDIT Apparently he is a Nob, apologies

As far as I understood, he is just a nob with slugga and choppa and nikkit is an ammo runt.

 Jidmah wrote:
As far as I understood, he is just a nob with slugga and choppa and nikkit is an ammo runt.

Oh my mistake he is a Nob

Thank you Jidmah

This commemorativ piece of ...
plastic makes me seriously think about the futuru of this hobby, this company and this business model.

This hobby is great and will definitely be fine and very interesting

The rest will be part of this “interesting”.

Selling a 20 years old Nob model and ammo runt as commemorative? Commemorativ of what?

 Tomsug wrote:
This commemorativ piece of ...
plastic makes me seriously think about the futuru of this hobby, this company and this business model.

This hobby is great and will definitely be fine and very interesting

The rest will be part of this “interesting”.

Selling a 20 years old Nob model and ammo runt as commemorative? Commemorativ of what?

I mean, nu-GW's whole modus operandi for a lot of stuff is doing remakes of old classic models. The model is commemorative of GW's Gorkamorka game, and they've done this with SM with their remake of their Imperial Marine with disintegrator gun, SoB got a model that is based on the old school artwork cover for them/40K way back and they even made the Zoat for Blackstone Fortress.

They've seen the movies and shows and how everyone is on the nostalgia bandwagon, so they're tapping into it.

 Tomsug wrote:
This commemorativ piece of ...
plastic makes me seriously think about the futuru of this hobby, this company and this business model.

This hobby is great and will definitely be fine and very interesting

The rest will be part of this “interesting”.

Selling a 20 years old Nob model and ammo runt as commemorative? Commemorativ of what?

I got Gitstompa and Nikkit just because I have the old Nob and wanted them to go with each other, but yeah I agree. It doesnt really make sense to have an Ork Nob on boxing day as a commemorative model. It kind of felt like fan service to Ork players to keep them happy. I was expecting more of a Deathguard/Dark Angel/Dark Eldar model to link with the upcoming releases.

But has anyone seen that new Ork coin? Apparently it is only available during a month when a faction is release. Deathguard has their coin and people are saying Slaanesh has one too coming but I havent seen that one. So we could be "soon" (soon in covid terms so summer )

 Rismonite wrote:
So today is my birthday, and I just happened to go into a GW store, and found Gorzag and Nikkit, which just became available today. So I bought them, he has an ork boy statline with 'eavy armor, do I just plug him and Nikkit into the game for an Ork Boy?

He is a 'Commemorative Series' model if that helps

EDIT Apparently he is a Nob, apologies

The model is bulky enough to be a perfect warboss actually, a good replace for the former Grukk which you can get only along with nobz you may not want and it's not a great sculpt anyway (in my opinion at least). Just replace his choppa with a spared power klaw, and put him on a 40mm since I think he's on a 32mm. Maybe a bosspole could be nice as well.

I wouldn’t expect a codex until late next year but I think the new statline for the biker boss is a good preview of what to expect. I don’t think we will really see too much change rules wise and I highly doubt we see a whole new line of models. I think GW is aware that for Orks they have a huge third party problem. On top of that if you wanted new models they just Recently (for orks) refreshed the AOS line of Orruks and they are all easily adapted to 40k. I myself have already converted 10 brutes to MANZ and A couple of mega bosses which is an amazing model. I think GW is very familiar with the nature of ork players and how juxtaposed it is with their new monopose lines.

Don' t expecting new codex anytime soon. There will be a masive promo 4 months in advance at least...

 Blackie wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
So today is my birthday, and I just happened to go into a GW store, and found Gorzag and Nikkit, which just became available today. So I bought them, he has an ork boy statline with 'eavy armor, do I just plug him and Nikkit into the game for an Ork Boy?

He is a 'Commemorative Series' model if that helps

EDIT Apparently he is a Nob, apologies

The model is bulky enough to be a perfect warboss actually, a good replace for the former Grukk which you can get only along with nobz you may not want and it's not a great sculpt anyway (in my opinion at least). Just replace his choppa with a spared power klaw, and put him on a 40mm since I think he's on a 32mm. Maybe a bosspole could be nice as well.

He is quite a bit smaller than Grukk. You can run him as a Warboss sure, but he is Nob sized. None Ork players wouldnt notice but I wouldnt use him as a Warboss. He is getting a Killsaw and he is being a Boss Nob for me.

Hey guys i understand that auras are not projected outside a vehicle, when a character is inside. However i cant seem find out if the aura doesnt still affect the vehicle itself. Like if you put a KFF big mek inside a gorkanaut or a waaagh banner inside the gorkanaut, does the gork get those benefits but no one else? Or does no one including the gork get those benefits ?

Beardedragon wrote:
Hey guys i understand that auras are not projected outside a vehicle, when a character is inside. However i cant seem find out if the aura doesnt still affect the vehicle itself. Like if you put a KFF big mek inside a gorkanaut or a waaagh banner inside the gorkanaut, does the gork get those benefits but no one else? Or does no one including the gork get those benefits ?

The KFF has an extra rules to handle being embarked on vehicles.

All other other auras fail simply because you cannot be within any range of an embarked model.

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Hey guys i understand that auras are not projected outside a vehicle, when a character is inside. However i cant seem find out if the aura doesnt still affect the vehicle itself. Like if you put a KFF big mek inside a gorkanaut or a waaagh banner inside the gorkanaut, does the gork get those benefits but no one else? Or does no one including the gork get those benefits ?

The KFF has an extra rules to handle being embarked on vehicles.

All other other auras fail simply because you cannot be within any range of an embarked model.

I See. So no waaagh banner inside Will work on the gork.

Cant wait to try my gork!!

This is epic. GW just released some lists incl. one Ork list from Battle forge to motivate people to use it and.... the list are totaly wrong

 Tomsug wrote:
This is epic. GW just released some lists incl. one Ork list from Battle forge to motivate people to use it and.... the list are totaly wrong

The MA Big mek is pretty off.

The Goff list looks legitimately competitive, though. Good job GW.

 Tomsug wrote:
This is epic. GW just released some lists incl. one Ork list from Battle forge to motivate people to use it and.... the list are totaly wrong

All the lists they posted werent competitive even though being branded as such in the title of the article. They are just tryna show off the app thats all.

The point is not the structure of the army in the list. It’ s pretty ok. The tragedy is the output from the app. It miss the gunz. It miss the elementary information. Send a list written this way to any tournament and they kick you out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does anybody have some experiences with Megadreads with the new rules? See a lot of pictures people painting them, but not any reports...

 Tomsug wrote:
The point is not the structure of the army in the list. It’ s pretty ok. The tragedy is the output from the app. It miss the gunz. It miss the elementary information. Send a list written this way to any tournament and they kick you out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does anybody have some experiences with Megadreads with the new rules? See a lot of pictures people painting them, but not any reports...

And Meka dreads for that matter. A pair of Killkannons at BS4 (or BS3 if you take freebootaz/buzzgob) is nothing to sneeze at. Having 3 of each swamping the midfield could be decent, certainly fun.

Mega Dreads with dual Dred Klaw arms are good deep striking threats. They already roll 3D6 for the charge so you don't have to spend 2CP on ramming speed to guarantee it (though it all but does if you do). They're also not entirely useless on the turn they land even if they don't make the charge for some reason, as the bombits they're equipped with are 12" skorchas without the AP-1.

Meka Dreds I haven't used yet, but I assume like Cody.D mentioned, that you would lean into their superior shooting ability since they already have 1 less base attack. I would be worried about them being tarpitted though.

Meka dreads cant shoot into combat or fallback and shoot.

I think that kills their usefulness imo. I'd rather take a kannonwagon for the better gun, longer range, and transport capacity, as well as 3 free big shootas.

Same cost too.

Could you imagine if the Mekadreads could take Da Boomer though? Damn that'd be fun as hell.

But honestly depending on the list I'm not that worried about having a meka dread wrapped, orks are pretty good at bubblewrapping. And we have plenty of units that can counter attack. In most situations i'd be more concerned with them being shot than charged.

For the record, being able to fall back and shoot or shoot into combat has come into practice once for me since 9th.

It never happens. Theres so few things that tie a vehicle up that doesnt immediately whollop it anyway that doesnt cost as much or more than the vehicle anyway

Dual Killkannon Mekadreads are 165pts. The hell is gonna tie that up that isnt a win for you? I wouldnt even be mad if a big blob of scarabs swarmed it because then thats a ton of wounds i now can ignore.

Well, I've just finished a game where a zagzap gun wagon completely murdered a unit of ravenwing bikers that were trying to lock it in combat

Quick query about MANz -- Is there any reason to ever take anything but double-killsaws? Secondly, if you had to have a gun on one, which gun would you choose? (I ask because I'm building one that uses a sherman tank turret, and it needs a gun!)

Lastly, is mechanized infantry a workable army approach? Massed trukk boyz (6 trukks full of boyz) and manz in battlewagons (2x battlewagons with 6 MANz, a min squad of kommandos, and a KFF big mek each), a biker boss or trike to get advance+charge on the battlewagons, and a unit of 6 smasha gunz in the backfield?

thanks!

 Vineheart01 wrote:
For the record, being able to fall back and shoot or shoot into combat has come into practice once for me since 9th.

It never happens. Theres so few things that tie a vehicle up that doesnt immediately whollop it anyway that doesnt cost as much or more than the vehicle anyway

Dual Killkannon Mekadreads are 165pts. The hell is gonna tie that up that isnt a win for you? I wouldnt even be mad if a big blob of scarabs swarmed it because then thats a ton of wounds i now can ignore.

Even if thats true.. why wouldn't I just take a kannonwagon, which has a better gun, 3 big shootas, and is a transport, for 5 more points?

Cool factor.

bout it. Mekadread can fix other vehicles but as rare as it is to say this i'd rather have 3 bigshootas lol

Kannonwagon is indeed superior, just pointing out that the lack of fall back and shoot or shoot in melee isnt really a negative. Kannonwagon has that issue too but also has like 3x the range lol

tulun wrote:
Meka dreads cant shoot into combat or fallback and shoot.

I think that kills their usefulness imo. I'd rather take a kannonwagon for the better gun, longer range, and transport capacity, as well as 3 free big shootas.

Same cost too.

Good point. They would have to have a baseline CC weapon like their feet being S: User AP:-2 D:2 to be worth considering over the kannonwagon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Coh Magnussen wrote:
Quick query about MANz -- Is there any reason to ever take anything but double-killsaws? Secondly, if you had to have a gun on one, which gun would you choose? (I ask because I'm building one that uses a sherman tank turret, and it needs a gun!)

Lastly, is mechanized infantry a workable army approach? Massed trukk boyz (6 trukks full of boyz) and manz in battlewagons (2x battlewagons with 6 MANz, a min squad of kommandos, and a KFF big mek each), a biker boss or trike to get advance+charge on the battlewagons, and a unit of 6 smasha gunz in the backfield?

thanks!

I would say if you have the points there's almost no reason to take anything else besides maybe one guy with a kombi rokkit and PK if you're running Deffskullz to give the unit some utility to throw some damage in during the shooting phase.

Mechanized infantry as far as trukk boyz works for 1-3 units max IMO. Once you take too many you're better off just investing the points from trukkz into more boyz instead. 10 man squads of boyz just isn't efficient enough to do damage or effectively contest objectives in the middle. Even with other mechanized support from MANZ, you have a whole lot of transports not doing much. If Trukks had more CC prowess with their wreckin balls, where they act as a light version of what a scrapjet could do, they would have more merit. As is though, there's a reason most Ork competitive lists are either buggy focused or infantry based.

Kannonwagon sits in back and shoot. His transport capacity is pretty much useless and big shootas just to kill the cheap deepstrikers rushing for objectives / secondaries.

Meka / Mega Dread can march forward, shoot, control the midfield and do some damage when come to CC.

This two units are not comparable IMHO. They have a diffrent role. This is the reason, why double killkannon version is not right. For the same pointcost I can have a bunch of smashagunz and get more independent units on the table with more wounds.


MANz with PK as deathskulls are pretty ok. You re-roll the damage and have quite a lot of dakka, so if you fail the charge, you can actualy do something. Plus you spare 2p per model... I use it more againts IG, there are always some guardsman you want to kill in range....

Hey guys. I have a question about a Big mek in mega armor, who uses the tellyport blasta.

"If a model suffers any unsaved wounds from this weapon and is not slain, roll a D6 at the end of the phase. If the result is greater than that model’s Wounds characteristic, it is slain."

im confused about the "wound characteristics". does it refer to the amount of wounds a unit has left, or the total amount of wounds that unit had to begin with?

Like if i hit a guy once who has 6 wounds total, so he now has 5 wounds, do i roll a 6 and he dies, or does it not matter because you cant roll 7 and thus the tellyport blasta is wasted?

I have the same question about Visions in the smoke, is it the current wounds i go for, or the total wounds? (I.e, a Gorkanaut having lost a few wounds, could get visions on less than a 9?).

Also a last thing: Does a squig bomb count for the sake of coherency? like if you only have 4 tank bustas left and 2 Squigs, do each model have to be within 2 other models, or are the squigs ignored somehow?

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, I've just finished a game where a zagzap gun wagon completely murdered a unit of ravenwing bikers that were trying to lock it in combat

Seems the Zagzap was fun. Was it also useful? Or just for fun?

cody.d. wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
The point is not the structure of the army in the list. It’ s pretty ok. The tragedy is the output from the app. It miss the gunz. It miss the elementary information. Send a list written this way to any tournament and they kick you out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does anybody have some experiences with Megadreads with the new rules? See a lot of pictures people painting them, but not any reports...

And Meka dreads for that matter. A pair of Killkannons at BS4 (or BS3 if you take freebootaz/buzzgob) is nothing to sneeze at. Having 3 of each swamping the midfield could be decent, certainly fun.

Wouldnt it be better to have a Kannonwagon at that point? Same amount of shots, 2 and half the times the range, damage 3 instead of 2 and 15pts cheaper whilst also being 4" quicker?

 Tomsug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, I've just finished a game where a zagzap gun wagon completely murdered a unit of ravenwing bikers that were trying to lock it in combat

Seems the Zagzap was fun. Was it also useful? Or just for fun?

I ran it just for fun, but it actually was really good. My opponent was a DA player with lots of deathwing terminators and it was pretty much the only thing on the table that could reliably kill a terminator or two per turn, where Badrukk, rokkits and assorted KMBs regularly failed to get past the combination of storm shields, dense terrain and inner circle. I might have lost the game if I had brought da boomer or a kannonwagon instead.

Beardedragon wrote:
Hey guys. I have a question about a Big mek in mega armor, who uses the tellyport blasta.

"If a model suffers any unsaved wounds from this weapon and is not slain, roll a D6 at the end of the phase. If the result is greater than that model’s Wounds characteristic, it is slain."

im confused about the "wound characteristics". does it refer to the amount of wounds a unit has left, or the total amount of wounds that unit had to begin with?

Like if i hit a guy once who has 6 wounds total, so he now has 5 wounds, do i roll a 6 and he dies, or does it not matter because you cant roll 7 and thus the tellyport blasta is wasted?

Wound characteristics is what you see on the datasheet plus eventual pre-game buffs like Da Kleverest Boss. So yeah on a model that starts with 6+ wounds the Tellyport Blasta ability is never activated.

Beardedragon wrote:

I have the same question about Visions in the smoke, is it the current wounds i go for, or the total wounds? (I.e, a Gorkanaut having lost a few wounds, could get visions on less than a 9?).

Exact same concept. It refers to the model's pre-game amount of wounds.

Beardedragon wrote:

Also a last thing: Does a squig bomb count for the sake of coherency? like if you only have 4 tank bustas left and 2 Squigs, do each model have to be within 2 other models, or are the squigs ignored somehow?

Yes, Bomb Squigs are part of the squad like any other Tankbusta. They just die after firing the first time and don't count for morale purposes.

This is out of topic though. Next time, open a thread into the appropriate section .

Yeah, the tellyporta blasta effect is useless.
It wont function on anything with more than 5 wounds on their sheet and the way its worded means it likely wont even trigger on models with 5 or less anyway, because most things that it actually wants to shoot and has less than 5 wounds its likely to kill outright anyway.
Its at the end of the phase, if a model suffered damage from that gun, roll the die. If it happened immediately after that damage was dealt, it could be a pretty nifty 3W model killer.
Or, if it went off remaining wounds it could also be pretty powerful.

Sadly its neither. Its not even a good gun in the first place. its trash.

 Tomsug wrote:
Kannonwagon sits in back and shoot. His transport capacity is pretty much useless and big shootas just to kill the cheap deepstrikers rushing for objectives / secondaries.

Meka / Mega Dread can march forward, shoot, control the midfield and do some damage when come to CC.

This two units are not comparable IMHO. They have a diffrent role. This is the reason, why double killkannon version is not right. For the same pointcost I can have a bunch of smashagunz and get more independent units on the table with more wounds.

That's sort of what I was getting at.

If they take two guns, you're basically taking a worse kannon wagon. But a single Klaw / Killkannon for its point costs is also pretty trash, it has too few CC attacks, and it's shooting output is weak sauce. This thing costs the same as a lot of very strong SM dreadnaughts.

The Mega Dread is basically the same cost and is just a better platform, because it commits to getting into CC, and even has a couple flamers that help you clear out chaff so it can charge meaty stuff.

If the meka could shoot its guns into combat, it might have a use, because it could at least blast / punish the stuff that tagged it. Or if it could fall back if tagged by 10 guardsmen. high str kicks with no AP are largely useless.

Not to mention, kannonwagons are 3D while the mekadread would be 2D.

Other than wanting to use a really cool model from Geargutz theres no reason to use a mekadread. At all.

Fortunately unlike before we seem to have more good FW stuff than useless this time around. I've used a Mega w/ 2Klaws a couple times now and man that thing is mean for its cost, its just durable enough to piss people off and it just shreads big things.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, I've just finished a game where a zagzap gun wagon completely murdered a unit of ravenwing bikers that were trying to lock it in combat

Seems the Zagzap was fun. Was it also useful? Or just for fun?

I ran it just for fun, but it actually was really good. My opponent was a DA player with lots of deathwing terminators and it was pretty much the only thing on the table that could reliably kill a terminator or two per turn, where Badrukk, rokkits and assorted KMBs regularly failed to get past the combination of storm shields, dense terrain and inner circle. I might have lost the game if I had brought da boomer or a kannonwagon instead.

That' s pretty interesting!

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Not to mention, kannonwagons are 3D while the mekadread would be 2D.

Other than wanting to use a really cool model from Geargutz theres no reason to use a mekadread. At all.

Fortunately unlike before we seem to have more good FW stuff than useless this time around. I've used a Mega w/ 2Klaws a couple times now and man that thing is mean for its cost, its just durable enough to piss people off and it just shreads big things.

I really liked mine in the test game I played. It didn't do much, but yeah, 16 wounds + ramshackle + 3+ save, it took enough punishment to do work as a distraction 'fex

My friend was also nice and let me use the Tin Heads bonus on it, which it should arguably get.. they just won't bother with FAQing it at this point.

Yeah hopefully in the next codex the subkultures mention WALKERZ which would include the FW stuff.

Really annoyed that none of the FW stuff benefits from subkultures or kustomjobz.

I made a comment about this before, but this time I added a stompa, morka and gorka to a Wartrike rush.

It's honestly the most hilarious thing I've done in 40k in a long time. Everyone's reactions are always gold. Having giant robots charge in T1 is frightening and if you haven't done it yet, I would strongly encourage risking losing a game for having an absolute blast. Games are super quick one way or another, which is also a huge plus.

Only gripe is I only own one wartrike, making the aura difficult to hit everything. One day I'll get 2...

Keramory wrote:
I made a comment about this before, but this time I added a stompa, morka and gorka to a Wartrike rush.

It's honestly the most hilarious thing I've done in 40k in a long time. Everyone's reactions are always gold. Having giant robots charge in T1 is frightening and if you haven't done it yet, I would strongly encourage risking losing a game for having an absolute blast. Games are super quick one way or another, which is also a huge plus.

Only gripe is I only own one wartrike, making the aura difficult to hit everything. One day I'll get 2...

Why not just add a bike boss? Cheaper, same aura.

Keramory wrote:
I made a comment about this before, but this time I added a stompa, morka and gorka to a Wartrike rush.

It's honestly the most hilarious thing I've done in 40k in a long time. Everyone's reactions are always gold. Having giant robots charge in T1 is frightening and if you haven't done it yet, I would strongly encourage risking losing a game for having an absolute blast. Games are super quick one way or another, which is also a huge plus.

Only gripe is I only own one wartrike, making the aura difficult to hit everything. One day I'll get 2...

Wht was your list? I remeber your note well and also Jidmah wrote there about his troubles againts T1 charging Gorkonaut

Keramory wrote:
I made a comment about this before, but this time I added a stompa, morka and gorka to a Wartrike rush.

It's honestly the most hilarious thing I've done in 40k in a long time. Everyone's reactions are always gold. Having giant robots charge in T1 is frightening and if you haven't done it yet, I would strongly encourage risking losing a game for having an absolute blast. Games are super quick one way or another, which is also a huge plus.

Only gripe is I only own one wartrike, making the aura difficult to hit everything. One day I'll get 2...

Well, now you can use the FW warbike as well. He's got the same aura as the trike which has it's own ups and downs. Also is a wonderful candidate for relics and such.

My opponent was a DA player with lots of deathwing terminators and it was pretty much the only thing on the table that could reliably kill a terminator or two per turn, where Badrukk, rokkits and assorted KMBs regularly failed to get past the combination of storm shields, dense terrain and inner circle. I might have lost the game if I had brought da boomer or a kannonwagon instead.

wow im terrible at making quotes and now i messed up my entire post..

might as well delete what i just wrote now

Beardedragon wrote:
Yes, Bomb Squigs are part of the squad like any other Tankbusta. They just die after firing the first time and don't count for morale purposes.

This is out of topic though. Next time, open a thread into the appropriate section .

How is a series of questions about orks functionality in a thread about orks in general, not in the right section?
It is related to me trying out some things with tank hammers and functionality of tank bustas.

Because that's a YMDC question.

Straight-up rules questions go in there.

I see. yet making an entire thread to ask a tiny question seemed pretty wasteful of space, was my idea at least, when i already had a string of questions related to orks. Then i might as well throw it in there.

Beardedragon wrote:
I see. yet making an entire thread to ask a tiny question seemed pretty wasteful of space when i already had a string of questions related to orks.

Dems the rules. Helps keep the thread focused. Also, I know you're a new player and all, but a lot of it can be searched by looking online, giving a look at the FAQ's or just taking a second look-through in the rulebook. Ideally before you post stuff here you know the basic rules already regarding units so that way most of the thread isn't basically us regurgitating how the game works rather than specifically talking about using Ork units.

Thinking of jumping back into my Orks after I've done a few projects (took a break about 7th-8th ed. with them). Should I get Saga of the Beast or just wait out for the new codex?

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I see. yet making an entire thread to ask a tiny question seemed pretty wasteful of space when i already had a string of questions related to orks.

Dems the rules. Helps keep the thread focused. Also, I know you're a new player and all, but a lot of it can be searched by looking online, giving a look at the FAQ's or just taking a second look-through in the rulebook. Ideally before you post stuff here you know the basic rules already regarding units so that way most of the thread isn't basically us regurgitating how the game works rather than specifically talking about using Ork units.

I assumed i should ask questions about orks if there are things I was uncertain of when it came to orks. I like to ask away when i get a new unit, in this case the Big mek in mega armor since i got a MANZ package, how the tellyport blasta actually worked. But you are right the tankbusta question was not meant to be here, but at the same time i didnt think anyone really got bothered by something so trivial so i asked away still.

This game is very word heavy, with wording that often leave people who are not english native speakers, like myself, to be uncertain of some rules, hence why i come here, because i dont want to start up a game and assume how my unit works, only to find out i fethed it up.

Like someone did earlier assuming the Gorkanaut/Morkanaut got +3 extra hits with every exploding Goff 6's where it only got 1, because its an extra hit, not an attack. Thats a pretty massive mistake to make. Its problems like that i try to avoid because i convene with the eldars of Dakka Dakka Ork thread to understand my army properly. Believe it or not, but I dont 100% understand everything i read when its worded as terribly as it often is by GW. So i ask, i ask about the tellyport blasta because i didnt understand fully whether this was a useful weapon or not, and i asked about visions in the smoke.

Many of my fellow players where im from, also tend to be confused about the rules (not all the rules, but there are some) because thats what happens, when the company making the rules, write the rules in ways that can often be interpreted several different ways, but also doesnt provide the rules in my own native language.

And i do read the rules, i have read all of it. Like when i asked if my Waaagh Banner could give a gork a +1 to hit if the banner guy was stationed inside of the gork, because the wording made me confused about embarked versus not being embarked was written weirdly.

As a last thing, i only really ask questions about units ive just acquired or think about acquiring, which has a bit of a dodgy explanation, that, in case i misinterpret the wording, can directly alter the game in my favor. Like the tellyport blasta or grots for a mek Gun. Im not really trying to be annoying, im trying to play better.

Greenblood wrote:

My opponent was a DA player with lots of deathwing terminators and it was pretty much the only thing on the table that could reliably kill a terminator or two per turn, where Badrukk, rokkits and assorted KMBs regularly failed to get past the combination of storm shields, dense terrain and inner circle. I might have lost the game if I had brought da boomer or a kannonwagon instead.

Jidmah Please elaborate on this game been struggling against DA lately

Well, essentially I had the zagzap wagon parked on an backfield objective behind dense terrain in a way to shield off that corner from deep strikes and just had it shooting at terminators every turn. It doesn't care for -1 to hit and every turn I either had one shot going to 9+ strength for mortal wounds or he failed his 4+ save and one terminator splatted. The strength roll really doesn't matter a lot since you wound them on 4+ no matter what. When he charged some bikers into them to shut it off, I killed one in overwatch and another two by shooting into combat. It exploded to a missile launcher in T4, but it actually managed to make back its points by killing 3 deathwing terminators, a hellblaster and 3 bikes.

The game was very much uphill though, boyz have almost no chance of shifting those two-man command squads off objectives and I went full risk by throwing away my wartrike to assassinate his warlord talon master in T2, yielding me 10VP. The game ended 37 to 33 for me, with neither player really scoring anything noteworthy and me being tabled except for a single MAN with killsaws.

It was just an incursion game with me bringing a silly list, so a full battle report probably wouldn't help anyone in their games

The secret to beating deathwing is probably just having more boyz than they can kill on their objectives, a unit of trukk boyz flipped an objective for a single turn and scored me 15+3VP from while denying my opponent at 10VP - despite me failing morale 2 terminators couldn't wipe 10 boyz without help.
MANz with hit 'em harder also worked well, a deff dread got lucky and wiped 3 with the help of the dreaded death machine stratagem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I see. yet making an entire thread to ask a tiny question seemed pretty wasteful of space when i already had a string of questions related to orks.

Dems the rules. Helps keep the thread focused. Also, I know you're a new player and all, but a lot of it can be searched by looking online, giving a look at the FAQ's or just taking a second look-through in the rulebook. Ideally before you post stuff here you know the basic rules already regarding units so that way most of the thread isn't basically us regurgitating how the game works rather than specifically talking about using Ork units.

In general, I have no problem with asking ork-related rules questions in here, especially since YMDC often quite toxic when it comes to ork related queries. I'd rather have some questions in here than yet another player driven away from this community by certain poster's RAW bs or someone with irrational hate for orks going off on them.

That said, this thread is not supposed to be a replacement for reading the rules. Anything that is not directly related to orks, like the question about "what is the wound characteristic" should definitely go in YMDC - and creating a thread for simple questions is perfectly fine - that's why there is a dedicated forum to this.

 The Warp Forge wrote:
Thinking of jumping back into my Orks after I've done a few projects (took a break about 7th-8th ed. with them). Should I get Saga of the Beast or just wait out for the new codex?

It's kinda tough to say since GW's schedule is all backlogged due to COVID and I don't think we'll have as many rapidfire releases as we did back before the pandemic hit. I'd say for the time being it's worth it, simply because we at least know for certain that a new codex for Orks aren't coming out for the first few months as they try to catch up with their roadmap for 2021.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I see. yet making an entire thread to ask a tiny question seemed pretty wasteful of space when i already had a string of questions related to orks.

Dems the rules. Helps keep the thread focused. Also, I know you're a new player and all, but a lot of it can be searched by looking online, giving a look at the FAQ's or just taking a second look-through in the rulebook. Ideally before you post stuff here you know the basic rules already regarding units so that way most of the thread isn't basically us regurgitating how the game works rather than specifically talking about using Ork units.

I assumed i should ask questions about orks if there are things I was uncertain of when it came to orks. I like to ask away when i get a new unit, in this case the Big mek in mega armor since i got a MANZ package, how the tellyport blasta actually worked. But you are right the tankbusta question was not meant to be here, but at the same time i didnt think anyone really got bothered by something so trivial so i asked away still.

This game is very word heavy, with wording that often leave people who are not english native speakers, like myself, to be uncertain of some rules, hence why i come here, because i dont want to start up a game and assume how my unit works, only to find out i fethed it up.

Like someone did earlier assuming the Gorkanaut/Morkanaut got +3 extra hits with every exploding Goff 6's where it only got 1, because its an extra hit, not an attack. Thats a pretty massive mistake to make. Its problems like that i try to avoid because i convene with the eldars of Dakka Dakka Ork thread to understand my army properly. Believe it or not, but I dont 100% understand everything i read when its worded as terribly as it often is by GW. So i ask, i ask about the tellyport blasta because i didnt understand fully whether this was a useful weapon or not, and i asked about visions in the smoke.

Many of my fellow players where im from, also tend to be confused about the rules (not all the rules, but there are some) because thats what happens, when the company making the rules, write the rules in ways that can often be interpreted several different ways, but also doesnt provide the rules in my own native language.

And i do read the rules, i have read all of it. Like when i asked if my Waaagh Banner could give a gork a +1 to hit if the banner guy was stationed inside of the gork, because the wording made me confused about embarked versus not being embarked was written weirdly.

As a last thing, i only really ask questions about units ive just acquired or think about acquiring, which has a bit of a dodgy explanation, that, in case i misinterpret the wording, can directly alter the game in my favor. Like the tellyport blasta or grots for a mek Gun. Im not really trying to be annoying, im trying to play better.

No problem, GW's writing is far from being clear at the best of times, so I can only imagine how much more annoying it must be for someone that doesn't have it as their native language. It's just to help focus your questions into Ork specific ones, which I'm pretty sure most people, like Jidmah, don't mind answering.

 Tomsug wrote:

Keramory wrote:
I made a comment about this before, but this time I added a stompa, morka and gorka to a Wartrike rush.

It's honestly the most hilarious thing I've done in 40k in a long time. Everyone's reactions are always gold. Having giant robots charge in T1 is frightening and if you haven't done it yet, I would strongly encourage risking losing a game for having an absolute blast. Games are super quick one way or another, which is also a huge plus.

Only gripe is I only own one wartrike, making the aura difficult to hit everything. One day I'll get 2...

Wht was your list? I remeber your note well and also Jidmah wrote there about his troubles againts T1 charging Gorkonaut

Oh I didn't know the FW model now lets vehicles charge now. That's good to know!

As for the list I dont have the exacts as I edit battlescribe like a madman every day, honestly it was just shaft to fill in the little points I had left.

to answer, yeah if anyone has a brain or is thinking about your deployment and know you're going to advance and charge... they're going to add chaft in the way. Some do, some don't. Still fun regardless though. Having to deal with that in your face before you can do anything makes a hilarious reaction... and honestly that's what I'm mostly about when playing.

I'll tell you whats not fun though. I built 10 flashgitz and wanted to live a ork artillery fantasy with them, ghaz, badrukk and 15 lootas for about 1k points. Went second and only had Ghaz left before my t1. It's maddening that they die so easily without grots.

Have anyone tried the idea of Flash Gitz inside a Squiggoth for the ability to move around, yet retain the +4 to hit with the Howdah! ability?

If i actually had the units i would definitly give it a try.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, I've just finished a game where a zagzap gun wagon completely murdered a unit of ravenwing bikers that were trying to lock it in combat

Seems the Zagzap was fun. Was it also useful? Or just for fun?

I ran it just for fun, but it actually was really good. My opponent was a DA player with lots of deathwing terminators and it was pretty much the only thing on the table that could reliably kill a terminator or two per turn, where Badrukk, rokkits and assorted KMBs regularly failed to get past the combination of storm shields, dense terrain and inner circle. I might have lost the game if I had brought da boomer or a kannonwagon instead.

Im guessing you rolled quite well with the Zagzap vs Deathwing Terminators and the other player just rolled like ass? Automatically hitting is nice (all Zzapguns should like they used to). but wounding at best on 4s vs Inner Circle and then them having a 3++ or 5++ with a 5+++ (if he took the Banner) is pretty unreliable. I know you used it just for fun but I think maybe you just had Mork on your side.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Keramory wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

Keramory wrote:
I made a comment about this before, but this time I added a stompa, morka and gorka to a Wartrike rush.

It's honestly the most hilarious thing I've done in 40k in a long time. Everyone's reactions are always gold. Having giant robots charge in T1 is frightening and if you haven't done it yet, I would strongly encourage risking losing a game for having an absolute blast. Games are super quick one way or another, which is also a huge plus.

Only gripe is I only own one wartrike, making the aura difficult to hit everything. One day I'll get 2...

Wht was your list? I remeber your note well and also Jidmah wrote there about his troubles againts T1 charging Gorkonaut

Oh I didn't know the FW model now lets vehicles charge now. That's good to know!

As for the list I dont have the exacts as I edit battlescribe like a madman every day, honestly it was just shaft to fill in the little points I had left.

to answer, yeah if anyone has a brain or is thinking about your deployment and know you're going to advance and charge... they're going to add chaft in the way. Some do, some don't. Still fun regardless though. Having to deal with that in your face before you can do anything makes a hilarious reaction... and honestly that's what I'm mostly about when playing.

I'll tell you whats not fun though. I built 10 flashgitz and wanted to live a ork artillery fantasy with them, ghaz, badrukk and 15 lootas for about 1k points. Went second and only had Ghaz left before my t1. It's maddening that they die so easily without grots.

Yeah the Deffkilla Wartrike is pretty much obsolete due to the return of the new and improved Biker Boss. Unless you only have the DKWT, there is no reason to ever take him over the Biker Boss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
Have anyone tried the idea of Flash Gitz inside a Squiggoth for the ability to move around, yet retain the +4 to hit with the Howdah! ability?

If i actually had the units i would definitly give it a try.

I have in 8th, but I havent in 9th. I think Flashgitz are a bit too expensive. 32ppm for basically a Nob with a fancy gun. They are successful in a Marine heavy meta but I can see that trend shifting if DG become super popular and meta shaking. Having that D2 negated to D1 is gonna be a kick in the shrooms, even more so vs Blightlord Terminators and Possessed. They should be 26-28ppm in my opinion. A squiggoth is also pretty costly and doesnt do much in CC (4 str8 AP3 D6 damage attacks arent something to right home about for 190pts).

I would probably go for a Big Trakk instead, forgo the accuracy for movement and the chance to get Obscuring, it isnt also a huge pts sink but granted the BT wastes a HS slot.

 deffrekka wrote:
Im guessing you rolled quite well with the Zagzap vs Deathwing Terminators and the other player just rolled like ass? Automatically hitting is nice (all Zzapguns should like they used to). but wounding at best on 4s vs Inner Circle and then them having a 3++ or 5++ with a 5+++ (if he took the Banner) is pretty unreliable. I know you used it just for fun but I think maybe you just had Mork on your side.

First of all, storm shields are 4++, not 3++ and second on a roll of 9+ for strength it doesn't care for either invulnerable saves nor inner circle and just outright kills a terminator. Getting one 9+ out of the two shots is a ~50% chance.
The issue with that army is not the big blocks of terminator with support characters behind them, but the units of 2 command squad terminators with a single stormshield sitting on objectives.

Beardedragon wrote:
Have anyone tried the idea of Flash Gitz inside a Squiggoth for the ability to move around, yet retain the +4 to hit with the Howdah! ability?

If i actually had the units i would definitly give it a try.

Hi, Flash Gitz in a Trukk worked well pre the latest points change, using Loot It to give them a 3+ Sv when the Trukk was destroyed, and using Ammo Runtz to take the wounds. With their points increase they were considered too expensive. Never tried them in a Squiggoth - let me know how it goes :-)

There was a dude makes pretty sucess on some us tournament with 3 garg squiggogs and smashagun spam list.

Roll back in this thread to aprox October 2020.

Moriarty wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Have anyone tried the idea of Flash Gitz inside a Squiggoth for the ability to move around, yet retain the +4 to hit with the Howdah! ability?

If i actually had the units i would definitly give it a try.

Hi, Flash Gitz in a Trukk worked well pre the latest points change, using Loot It to give them a 3+ Sv when the Trukk was destroyed, and using Ammo Runtz to take the wounds. With their points increase they were considered too expensive. Never tried them in a Squiggoth - let me know how it goes :-)

Honestly, I tried to the "Loot it!" stratagem on several separate occasions now and the only time I felt it was worth spending a CP was when I gave Badrukk a 2+ save that allowed him to tie down a bunch of intercessors for multiple turns.

 Jidmah wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:
Im guessing you rolled quite well with the Zagzap vs Deathwing Terminators and the other player just rolled like ass? Automatically hitting is nice (all Zzapguns should like they used to). but wounding at best on 4s vs Inner Circle and then them having a 3++ or 5++ with a 5+++ (if he took the Banner) is pretty unreliable. I know you used it just for fun but I think maybe you just had Mork on your side.

First of all, storm shields are 4++, not 3++ and second on a roll of 9+ for strength it doesn't care for either invulnerable saves nor inner circle and just outright kills a terminator. Getting one 9+ out of the two shots is a ~50% chance. The issue with that army is not the big blocks of terminator with support characters behind them, but the units of 2 command squad terminators with a single stormshield sitting on objectives.

Sorry my mistake! I was sleepy when typing that! they can still get to a 3+ when in cover and armed with Stormshields though vs the Zagzap. Its not a weapon I would rely on, especially vs Deathwing who have access to a 5+++ and can just bring them back with a Chief Apothecary as per usual, and they tend to deepstrike in with the ravenna stratagem. Luckily they no longer have their shoot twice stratagem on arrival anymore.

No one will put a banner or an apothecary next to those objective campers, as it would defeat the whole purpose of bringing them in the first place.

 Jidmah wrote:
No one will put a banner or an apothecary next to those objective campers, as it would defeat the whole purpose of bringing them in the first place.

Making your Deathwing Terminators/Knights more durable is always worth it. Keeping Terminators on camping duty is a poor way to utilise them. I play Dark Angels and have been a huge Death/Raven/Dread/Ironwing fan for ages. There are better units to use for that role, Deathwing should be striking for the heart and claiming the midfield or rear. Deathwing are already one of the most durable Terminators in the game and capitalising on that with a negative to hit (easy for Dark Angels) and a 5+++ will make them a tough nut to crack. The problem Deathwing/Ravenwing players have is board control, they will always be outnumbered but luckily as Spacemarines they have ample ways of getting Obsec which alleviates some of that weakness. Hiding a 2 man Command Squad behind some Obscuring should be pretty damn easy so most of the time they shouldnt be shot at on home objectives unless your group has sparse terrain to play with.

Really all Zzapguns should automatically hit. They used to. Again its another Kustom Job that should just be standard (minus the MWs on a 9+). Who takes Zzapguns now? Same with Lobbas and Kannons. Since Big Gunz went the way of the Dodo and the nerf to Zzapguns they just arent used and I have this same argument with standard Killkannons (You only take one if you make it Da Boomer.). There is just better versions of these stock types of guns out there, Smashaguns>Zzapguns - Supakannons>Killkannons - Rokkis>Kannons.

I was thinking the Squiggoth specifically because you can actually move the thing, be in combat even, and still be allowed to shoot with your Lootas or flash gitz sitting on top of the squiggoth unhindered.

Also if im not mistaken, you could cast visions in the smoke on the squiggoth and the FlashGitz inside would also be buffed, given the Howdah ability says: Any other restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to models embarked upon it.

Meaning you can actually move your flash gitz around and still shoot, you can be in combat with the squiggoth and still shoot, you can buff them with + reroll failed hit rolls with visions in the smoke as i understand it. A guy pointed this out to me, and i thought: Huh, thats actually pretty cool that you can buff the guys inside the transport where you cant with anyone else.

Thats why i thought squiggoth more than trukks

Couple of things:

1) Visions is tied to the VEHICLE keyword, which a squiggoth is not.

2) It's not a hit modifier, so it doesn't pass to the units inside.

Also, I did this big boy finally yesterday.

It doesn't have highlights yet, but I'm really happy with how it's turning out so far.

tulun wrote:
Couple of things:

1) Visions is tied to the VEHICLE keyword, which a squiggoth is not.

2) It's not a hit modifier, so it doesn't pass to the units inside.

oh right i knew that, not sure why i forgot the squiggoth werent a vehicle. I got carried away by the possibilities and forgot basic info it seem.

But any other things that can otherwise buff the squiggoth with hit modifiers, would be able to buff them. What ever buffs they may be i guess. that over all seemed interesting. Ive never tried freebootas so im assuming the +1 to hit from their trait would reach these guys sitting inside a squiggoth then.

Also due to my english skills i understood "modifiers" as all given buffs you could give the vehicle, not just +1 or -1 hits. that does put a damper on the possibilities.

 deffrekka wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
No one will put a banner or an apothecary next to those objective campers, as it would defeat the whole purpose of bringing them in the first place.

Making your Deathwing Terminators/Knights more durable is always worth it. Keeping Terminators on camping duty is a poor way to utilise them. I play Dark Angels and have been a huge Death/Raven/Dread/Ironwing fan for ages. There are better units to use for that role, Deathwing should be striking for the heart and claiming the midfield or rear. Deathwing are already one of the most durable Terminators in the game and capitalising on that with a negative to hit (easy for Dark Angels) and a 5+++ will make them a tough nut to crack. The problem Deathwing/Ravenwing players have is board control, they will always be outnumbered but luckily as Spacemarines they have ample ways of getting Obsec which alleviates some of that weakness. Hiding a 2 man Command Squad behind some Obscuring should be pretty damn easy so most of the time they shouldnt be shot at on home objectives unless your group has sparse terrain to play with.

Sorry, but have you played against a recent DA lists? Most bring no troops at all and just spam the entire table full of 3+ wound models, both deathwing and ravenwing. There is no point in wasting 100 points on an ancient or an apothecary that can potentially be sniped when you can just have another three terminators for the same costs.

Those command squads cost 80 points, as much as a unit of boyz, have 6 wounds, a stormshield, inner circle and a pair of lightning claws. They are great objective campers, and unless they fudge their rolls, they easily can take down most things trying to take an objective from them. Unless you kill them, they will just keep scoring points until you lose - which is quite doable, since most "home objectives" are just 2-4" from the edge of their deployment zone.

By obscuring all objectives instead of using a healthy mix of dense cover, obscuring and light cover obstacles, you just set yourself up to get steam-rolled by melee marines.

Honestly, I tried to the "Loot it!" stratagem on several separate occasions now and the only time I felt it was worth spending a CP was when I gave Badrukk a 2+ save that allowed him to tie down a bunch of intercessors for multiple turns.

Yeah, unfortunately, it's a very, VERY situational strat that often doesn't make enough of a difference for most units by the time their transports are popped. For it to be worth what it is now, they would have to make it so a unit gets their armour save improved to a 4+ if they had less than a 4+ save and for units with a 4+ save or better, they add +1 to their save characteristic. Now you don't have to use it only on Nobz or Flash Gitz, as other units like boyz or Tankbustas actually can have a higher chance of surviving out in the open when their transport inevitably dies. Another interesting mechanic would be allowing a unit to target a friendly or enemy vehicle unit within 3" at the end of the movement phase, for 1CP if its your own vehicle and 2CP for an enemy, you reduce the targeted vehicles save characteristic by 1 (to a minimum of 6+) but your unit gets the same effect as what I mentioned above. You would only be able to do this once per vehicle in each game, but it would make it more of a defensive/offensive strat that we could consistently use in most games compared to what we have now.

Also, I did this big boy finally yesterday.

It doesn't have highlights yet, but I'm really happy with how it's turning out so far.

Great job so far! Love Artel W's work. The Iron Boss is basically our "not-ghazghkull" model until his plastic remake was released. I'm waiting on their Meganob equivalents to arrive in the mail now.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
No one will put a banner or an apothecary next to those objective campers, as it would defeat the whole purpose of bringing them in the first place.

Making your Deathwing Terminators/Knights more durable is always worth it. Keeping Terminators on camping duty is a poor way to utilise them. I play Dark Angels and have been a huge Death/Raven/Dread/Ironwing fan for ages. There are better units to use for that role, Deathwing should be striking for the heart and claiming the midfield or rear. Deathwing are already one of the most durable Terminators in the game and capitalising on that with a negative to hit (easy for Dark Angels) and a 5+++ will make them a tough nut to crack. The problem Deathwing/Ravenwing players have is board control, they will always be outnumbered but luckily as Spacemarines they have ample ways of getting Obsec which alleviates some of that weakness. Hiding a 2 man Command Squad behind some Obscuring should be pretty damn easy so most of the time they shouldnt be shot at on home objectives unless your group has sparse terrain to play with.

Sorry, but have you played against a recent DA lists? Most bring no troops at all and just spam the entire table full of 3+ wound models, both deathwing and ravenwing. There is no point in wasting 100 points on an ancient or an apothecary that can potentially be sniped when you can just have another three terminators for the same costs.

Those command squads cost 80 points, as much as a unit of boyz, have 6 wounds, a stormshield, inner circle and a pair of lightning claws. They are great objective campers, and unless they fudge their rolls, they easily can take down most things trying to take an objective from them. Unless you kill them, they will just keep scoring points until you lose - which is quite doable, since most "home objectives" are just 2-4" from the edge of their deployment zone.

By obscuring all objectives instead of using a healthy mix of dense cover, obscuring and light cover obstacles, you just set yourself up to get steam-rolled by melee marines.

This. Between stuff like Rites of War and other shenanigans, SM legit don't need troops compared to a lot of other armies to contest objectives effectively. They either have Obsec on demand or will literally grind you out of there so you don't have the numbers to contest.

 Jidmah wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
No one will put a banner or an apothecary next to those objective campers, as it would defeat the whole purpose of bringing them in the first place.

Making your Deathwing Terminators/Knights more durable is always worth it. Keeping Terminators on camping duty is a poor way to utilise them. I play Dark Angels and have been a huge Death/Raven/Dread/Ironwing fan for ages. There are better units to use for that role, Deathwing should be striking for the heart and claiming the midfield or rear. Deathwing are already one of the most durable Terminators in the game and capitalising on that with a negative to hit (easy for Dark Angels) and a 5+++ will make them a tough nut to crack. The problem Deathwing/Ravenwing players have is board control, they will always be outnumbered but luckily as Spacemarines they have ample ways of getting Obsec which alleviates some of that weakness. Hiding a 2 man Command Squad behind some Obscuring should be pretty damn easy so most of the time they shouldnt be shot at on home objectives unless your group has sparse terrain to play with.

Sorry, but have you played against a recent DA lists? Most bring no troops at all and just spam the entire table full of 3+ wound models, both deathwing and ravenwing. There is no point in wasting 100 points on an ancient or an apothecary that can potentially be sniped when you can just have another three terminators for the same costs.

Those command squads cost 80 points, as much as a unit of boyz, have 6 wounds, a stormshield, inner circle and a pair of lightning claws. They are great objective campers, and unless they fudge their rolls, they easily can take down most things trying to take an objective from them. Unless you kill them, they will just keep scoring points until you lose - which is quite doable, since most "home objectives" are just 2-4" from the edge of their deployment zone.

By obscuring all objectives instead of using a healthy mix of dense cover, obscuring and light cover obstacles, you just set yourself up to get steam-rolled by melee marines.

Being in Tier 4 and 3 for the most of the Pandemic I doubt most of the UK has had games in, I havent played since August and I wouldnt if I could anyway as I wouldnt want to put people and their families at risk for a 2-3hr game that I can wait numerous months without. Reading all Codexes, forums and reviews plus watching excessive amount of Batreps is pretty much the only window I have into the meta right now. You might be lucky to have a game or two, over here Im probably looking at Summer time if that and thats without a good portion of LGS going down which they have been.

Any character can be potentially be sniped so the argument can be made about anyone, Painboyz, Big Meks, Warbosses etc. They have a larger chance of dying to any character targetting fire than any Deathwing Terminator character who are one of the most durable infantry characters in the game due to inner circle. A Ravenwing/Deathwing Chief Apothecary is always good. Getting a potential 5 models back, healing any Terminator or Biker up to full in addition and providing a 6+++ base. Itd be silly not to include a Chief Apothecary in ANY Space Marine list.

Your PC must be radiating quite some heat if playing TTS puts your family at risk

The only person outside of my family I see regularly happens to be a DA player, so I'm quite versed on that specific topic. Thing is, a Death Wing character costs 100 points, has only two more wound than a regular terminator and essentially provides additional wounds for a unit. Additional terminators do the very same thing, but also increase offense, footprint and model count. They also allow you to be in multiple places at once, while a character has to stay near another unit.

In my last game, I wiped out the big death wing squad in a single turn, an apothecary or ancient would have been a huge waste of points.

Look, Liam Hacket actually went third with three SAGs in his list:
https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-queensland-masters-and-end-of-year-thoughts/

 Jidmah wrote:
Look, Liam Hacket actually went third with three SAGs in his list:
https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-queensland-masters-and-end-of-year-thoughts/

That mad lad list took 3rd? Good man. I posted his list earlier, I didn't realize he did that well.

To be fair, Aussie land is a weird meta and Liam is a really good player. I've wondered how a list like this pilots in more casual games. Being able to take While We Stand on the SAGs is interesting.

That was Liam Hacket? That gives the list bigger meaning.

Does anybody has serious info how does he used it? I can imagine about zilion combinations of what and how and why put in the trukks...

Seems to be really interesting....

Appendix:

I would do it so - put the SAG and MANz in trukks and bustas in tellyport. Drive the trukks to objectives and either bully the enmies with double killsaw manz or bully them with 60” range due the Look out sir invulnarable SAG. MANz can gain impresive save via loot it and the grot oiler will eat the damage when trukk is destroid. In any way, I have a durable obsec 6++ infantry on objective.

Tankbustass will drop in T2 in right position to kill the big bastard you don' t like.

Or does he march the MANz with warboss and give a ride to SAGs and Bustas?

Scrapjets and the rest of infantry is clear I suppose.


The fact is that I have a couple of his lists in my files. And they are mostly very uncovencional. Like 312 grots + 3xSAG + Ghaz on Orktober 2019 or 2x10MANz + 10 TB + 2xSAG and some characters and 60 grots on Wintercon 2018?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomsug wrote:
That was Liam Hacket? That gives the list bigger meaning.

Does anybody has serious info how does he used it? I can imagine about zilion combinations of what and how and why put in the trukks...

Seems to be really interesting....

Appendix:

I would do it so - put the SAG and MANz in trukks and bustas in tellyport. Drive the trukks to objectives and either bully the enmies with double killsaw manz or bully them with 60” range due the Look out sir invulnarable SAG. MANz can gain impresive save via loot it and the grot oiler will eat the damage when trukk is destroid. In any way, I have a durable obsec 6++ infantry on objective.

Tankbustass will drop in T2 in right position to kill the big bastard you don' t like.

Or does he march the MANz with warboss and give a ride to SAGs and Bustas?

Scrapjets and the rest of infantry is clear I suppose.


The fact is that I have a couple of his lists in my files. And they are mostly very uncovencional. Like 312 grots + 3xSAG + Ghaz on Orktober 2019 or 2x10MANz + 10 TB + 2xSAG and some characters and 60 grots on Wintercon 2018?

Manz with loot it ? Since when Tomsug ? Did I miss something! (“Can’t get more than 2+“)

 addnid wrote:


Manz with loot it ? Since when Tomsug ? Did I miss something! (“Can’t get more than 2+“)

Yes, you can' t get better than 2+ but it can be stucked with the ap so you can still have 2+ againts ap -1. Or not? I don' t use so maybe I' m wrong....

 Tomsug wrote:

 addnid wrote:


Manz with loot it ? Since when Tomsug ? Did I miss something! (“Can’t get more than 2+“)

Yes, you can' t get better than 2+ but it can be stucked with the ap so you can still have 2+ againts ap -1. Or not? I don' t use so maybe I' m wrong....

From loot it:
"Improve the Save characteristic of that infantry unit by 1 (e.g. a Save characteristic of 6+ will become a Save characteristic of 5+), to a maximum of 2+."

So no effect on MANz, as I recall at release it could be used on them to give 1+ (which through rules sorcery makes it effectively 2++), so they changed it. Would be better if they had changed it to +1 on saving throw result, which may yet happen given how storm shields have changed.

Yeah if it added +1 to the saving throw you could use it to effectively negate an AP but it mods the stat.

40k is extremely annoying about stuff like that. Stormshields for some dumb reason ARE worded that way so termies with it do benefit, but Loot It! doesnt.

I'm fairly sure that the wording will get unified with the new codex.

Yep and that is one of the reasons, I don' t use this strategem....

Back to the topic. How does Liam used this list? Any ideas?

Hi all. I’m just about to start rebasing my boys to the 32mm bases. Just a quick question, are all infantry now in 32 mm bases? Thanks in advance

Hogiebear wrote:
Hi all. I’m just about to start rebasing my boys to the 32mm bases. Just a quick question, are all infantry now in 32 mm bases? Thanks in advance

Grots are not 32mm, they dont come with 32mm bases at least. I also dont think things like termagaunts and hormagaunts are 32mm.

So i think some infantry still use small bases.

Lot of things are 32mm now but not everything.
Ork wise i think its just grots that are still on the smaller ones.

Thanks guys. So basically base all non character infantry (eg stormboys, lootas, boys, kommandos etc) 32mm? Grots can stay as they are (thankfully)

Unless you move into the heavier stuff. Meganobs, Flashgitz, characters. All sit on the larger 40mm base unless they're a bike or vehicle.

Hogiebear wrote:
Thanks guys. So basically base all non character infantry (eg stormboys, lootas, boys, kommandos etc) 32mm? Grots can stay as they are (thankfully)

Every ork infantry is on 32mm but gretchins and grot gunners (25mm) and flash gitz, meganobz, big mek in megarmour, warboss, big mek with SAG, snikrot, badrukk, zagstruk, weirdboy which are all on 40mm bases. Big mek with KFF doesn't have an official model so you could give it a 32 or 40mm bases as you prefer. Mine has a 40mm base, like any other infantry HQ.

So even a few characters like painboy, grotsnik, runtherd, mek, banner nob are on 32mm.

It might have changed in the meantime, but my metal Grotsnik came with a 25mm base.

 Jidmah wrote:
It might have changed in the meantime, but my metal Grotsnik came with a 25mm base.

Mine too, 32mm bases didn't exist back then. Finecast Grotsnik is on 32mm. Only Gretchins are on 25mm now.

I'm so going to flip my gak on the first person suggesting that I should rebase my models

Ive bought some boyz on ebay which arrived with 25mm bases or so.

I think i had to rebase like 25 boyz and what not to 32mm with base adapters.

It could be worse tho. Cant imagine having 90+ boyz and other guys that had to be rebased with adapters. Adapters arent too bad though, its fast

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm so going to flip my gak on the first person suggesting that I should rebase my models

Me too. I don't have a single model on 32mm bases and also my bikes have the old smaller base. Bikes in particular could be an issue as there are no adapters for those basis. I haven't found a single opponent complaining about that so far luckily. I did put my scratch built buggies on MDF bases (unfortunately GW doesn't sell them separately) with the sizes of the current buggies though.

I got most of my Boyz in 5th edition, so I recently purchased 60 adapters for the sake of fair play (that and to avoid having them fall over all the time!).

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm so going to flip my gak on the first person suggesting that I should rebase my models

I suggest you rebase The Mad Doc, he deserves that sweet 32 base ! He will look bigger, meaner, tougher, and as an extension of that, so will you !
(Then Jid proceeds to flip his gak on me)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
Ive bought some boyz on ebay which arrived with 25mm bases or so.

I think i had to rebase like 25 boyz and what not to 32mm with base adapters.

It could be worse tho. Cant imagine having 90+ boyz and other guys that had to be rebased with adapters. Adapters arent too bad though, its fast

I did it for my 100 boyz with the adapters, but I regret that now, they don't look as good as boyz with "normal" 32 bases. And sometimes the adapters get stuck on inside the base holes of my movement trays. But anyway we will be getting new ork boy models by the time covid will be over, so no point in doing that now. I can't wait to buy and paint 90 of the new boyz on the block. It will be a hoot

 addnid wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm so going to flip my gak on the first person suggesting that I should rebase my models

I suggest you rebase The Mad Doc, he deserves that sweet 32 base ! He will look bigger, meaner, tougher, and as an extension of that, so will you !
(Then Jid proceeds to flip his gak on me)

Well, that's actually a good idea, especially as he gets knocked over a lot. I was thinking more along the lines of people claiming that smaller bases for boyz have some sort of advantage, who then fail to demonstrate those advantages with actual models.

I don't play in public competitive events anymore, so there is a snowball's chance in hell I'm going to rebase the 300 something boyz I own and buy new movement trays for them.

I guess having 32mm bases instead of 25mm bases makes it slightly harder for Boyz to get more models into combat, but on the other hand it makes them take up more space when standing on objectives and blocking off areas of the table.

 Jidmah wrote:

 addnid wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm so going to flip my gak on the first person suggesting that I should rebase my models

I suggest you rebase The Mad Doc, he deserves that sweet 32 base ! He will look bigger, meaner, tougher, and as an extension of that, so will you !
(Then Jid proceeds to flip his gak on me)

Well, that's actually a good idea, especially as he gets knocked over a lot. I was thinking more along the lines of people claiming that smaller bases for boyz have some sort of advantage, who then fail to demonstrate those advantages with actual models.

I don't play in public competitive events anymore, so there is a snowball's chance in hell I'm going to rebase the 300 something boyz I own and buy new movement trays for them.

Put the magnets on the bases and use the flat metal trays. Much better. Works for all base sizes.

Unless youre playing in tourmanets nobody is gonna give a crap if your boyz are on 32mm or not.
Technically the only benefit to it is you can squeeze slightly better getting out of a transport, the extra combat models isnt a thing since that reach got shrunk down massively. And even then, unless your transport was already mostly surrounded, it doesnt matter anyway.
Never had a time where i BARELY got my boyz out of the vehicle, indicating if i had 32mm bases i would have lost one or two.

Hey sorry to ask this, I am sure the info was given, but I tried and faiuled to find it here by searching the thread:
-> as we are on the topic of bases, which base should be used for the FW Mega-Dredd ? An oval monseter one ? Or the round deff dredd one ?

All my Orks are on upto date basing. They look a lot better for it and it didn't take that much time or effort. I sold my older models and replaced them with newer ones, bought shed loads of bits like spent ammo casings, Ironjaw heads and choppas, kommando backpacks and all kinds of orky bits from numerous websites. Now my Orks look a lot more realistic and brutal, I get way more compliments for my army.

I did probably 300 infantry and 50ish bikers/deffkoptas/vehicles over the course of 8th edition.

Man that is some real rebasing! Great hobbying deffrekka.

I'm personally bit torn on my speed freaks experience so far, don't like the style of play. Wondering if I have a go at mechanized infantry list, and see how bad it will be blown off the board. Just eagerly waiting on a new codex to change things up for the orks.

32mm bases on boyz give actually more advantage for the ork player as the mob has a larger footprint, which is mostly what hordes of boyz are about. Combatwise there's no difference at all, you get into fight the same number of models. Maybe in some bottleneck scenarios, including disembarking from a wrecked vehicle, they can be affected but we're talking about an extra model or two at most.

The only significant advantage of 25mm bases for boyz is that 90 on them fit under a KFF bubble, while 90 boyz on 32mm do not. If you have two KFFs or a mob is jumped the advantage doesn't exist anymore.

 addnid wrote:
Hey sorry to ask this, I am sure the info was given, but I tried and faiuled to find it here by searching the thread:
-> as we are on the topic of bases, which base should be used for the FW Mega-Dredd ? An oval monseter one ? Or the round deff dredd one ?

I would assume the oval monster one since the deff dread one is definitely too small for it, given the spacing between its legs and general size. Keep in mind that the mega-dread is like the Defiler/Soul Grinder where it never really came with a base for 40k, so you would just measure directly to its hull rather than its base, since it never had one to begin with.

 Grimskul wrote:

 addnid wrote:
Hey sorry to ask this, I am sure the info was given, but I tried and faiuled to find it here by searching the thread:
-> as we are on the topic of bases, which base should be used for the FW Mega-Dredd ? An oval monseter one ? Or the round deff dredd one ?

I would assume the oval monster one since the deff dread one is definitely too small for it, given the spacing between its legs and general size. Keep in mind that the mega-dread is like the Defiler/Soul Grinder where it never really came with a base for 40k, so you would just measure directly to its hull rather than its base, since it never had one to begin with.

Ah thanks a million Grimskul ! OK so I measure from hull because the MDredd has no "legal" base (hah hah jack of all trades, master of pun). i will put it on an oval as you say, because it will look the best, and provide the most stability.

technically, the Megadredd has no base.
I didnt get one at least when i got one eons ago. I just gave him a base that fit his foot size, which i think was the flyer base i used. He doesnt like to stand up very well so i was obligated to base him.

Sadly don't have an option to rebase my boys. Bought a lot of second hand locally for about a $1 a boy. Great deal but I only noticed later about half/full of a foot was covered in some weird glue that you cant break off. Looks like it was already rebased cause some orks were peg legged lol.

Shame too because some are on beautiful GW custom bases I'd love to use elsewhere. But nope, I have mix bases and Peg Leg Orky is hopping to battle on the worlds most beautiful base.

I will say if you don't rebase your boys, you do *technically* have advantages, especially with engagement range.

I would suggest trying to account for that when you play. I also don't really wanna rebase a bunch of the boys I did when I started playing in 3rd.

Engagement ranges are unaffected in 9th, 1/2" is less than the smallest base so it cannot possibly yield extra models attacking.
All it can do is allow more in the "within 3" bubble for disembarking, which almost never matters.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Engagement ranges are unaffected in 9th, 1/2" is less than the smallest base so it cannot possibly yield extra models attacking.
All it can do is allow more in the "within 3" bubble for disembarking, which almost never matters.

1" or 1/2" + 1/2".

It will marginally matter -- you can work with that 1" to gain some extra attacks.

It also reduces your footprint for obscuring.

Just give your opponent some leeway on marginal cases. IE -- reduce your attacks a bit if it seems to be for advantage, or if you're hiding just behind terrain because of the 25 mm, give them the ability to shoot.

It is modelling for advantage, technically, in some situations. If your opponent is cool with it, though, then just play on.

Yeah, I would say that there is some advantage, but usually it's on fringe cases like if there's a chokepoint with terrain or what vineheart mentioned earlier where you might lose one or two models from disembarking if the transport was surrounded partially. I think in most cases it's miniscule enough to really not impact a game, I'd only be careful on how strict it is for competitive tournament settings regarding bases.

Also, let's be real, in most cases, if you're footslogging, your boyz are going to be shot down to half strength by the time a lot of them reach combat, so the numbers difference will likely be moot.

tulun wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Engagement ranges are unaffected in 9th, 1/2" is less than the smallest base so it cannot possibly yield extra models attacking.
All it can do is allow more in the "within 3" bubble for disembarking, which almost never matters.

1" or 1/2" + 1/2".

It will marginally matter -- you can work with that 1" to gain some extra attacks.

Try to actually make that happen with real models and take a photo. This argument is nonsense because you can't pack boyz that close anyways because they are hanging off their bases, and because it doesn't actually make a difference to the outcome of a game even if they weren't.

It also reduces your footprint for obscuring.

It also makes it harder to claim dense terrain, for screening because they can cover way less area and it's harder to block movement with them.

Just give your opponent some leeway on marginal cases. IE -- reduce your attacks a bit if it seems to be for advantage, or if you're hiding just behind terrain because of the 25 mm, give them the ability to shoot.

There is zero reason to do so, because they are just legal models. 25mm has both advantages and disadvantages, and your opponent is for sure not giving you leeway when the smaller bases disadvantage you.

It is modelling for advantage, technically, in some situations. If your opponent is cool with it, though, then just play on.

Building a model as instructed is not modelling for advantage by any definition.
You are essentially calling people with unaltered citadel models cheaters. If you tried to pull that gak in a game with me, I would ask you to remove every single model that is not build exactly as described in the instruction manual because of modeling for advantage. Every single scratch build, kit bash, every model with additional base decoration, every model with arm or bit not not in a position shown in the instruction manual and any models with bits from another kit added.

The one and only reason to rebase models is because a public event you are attending has set certain base sizes as standard. Giving your opponent trouble for not adhering to those house rules outside of such a event is just being a dick.

I agree with Jidmah. 25mm is definitely not an adventage and definitely not cheating, unless tournaments rules say different.

Only relevant arguement is, that 32 looks better.

Can't disagree with that, it does

It is the same thing with people bringing old models which are smaller. Are they still legal ? Look at the really old obliterators, they are like 1/3 of the mass compared to the latest models.

I say even in a tournament it is fine, in the end if you lose because of hidden models (which could not have hidden if they wer the "right" models), then just tell your opponent that, and if he doesn't care then just let it go. You can call the referee but then the mood will just get sour.

My last tournament before the covid era, I won the second game because I had the referee intervene on multiple occasions (opponent was trying to distort pile in and consolidation rules to his benefit, along with trying to make me believe "his" interpretation of terrain rules), but I didn't feel any good afterwards, it was just a gak game, that got me the 5th spot instead of 10th if I had lost, which did not get me any prize or whatever.

Honestly it wasn't worth the effort, better to lose and let a few things slide. If a model isn't "standard" then fine, if its the base size or the model size. And honestly if it looks good (old models usually don't), who really cares ?

What really pissed me off though was unpainted (or horribly painted) models, but that has nothing to do with anything. ATM a player will lose 10 points though for doing that hah hah.

I think even comp 40K doesn't really need players to be hung up on details. What sets up a player to lose or win is generally deployment mistakes, messing up target priority, failing a vital charge, forgetting an objective or misplaying around objectives, that sort of thing. I don't think I ever lost or won a game depending on base size, or model position/advantage/disadvantage

It's not all black and white though. Playing an old model like the old Thrakka as the new one and hiding him behind a trukk or something just wouldn't feel right.

Gorkamorka trukks are an issue in theory, but it I think I have seen two in total over the course of the decade I've been in the game now, and usually people playing those aren't looking for a competitive game anyways.

A model that just got its base changed though? The difference isn't really there. Mek guns build out of the trukk set or from third party vendors or those which have the grot gunners not separate have vastly more impact than a slightly larger base.

I still regularly face daemons on square bases and tiny greater daemons or avatars. I don't remember a single game which ever was decided by those things.

As for the 10VP rule, it's a 100% failure. There is an eldar veteran playing in one of the stores near me who used to be proud of not owning a single painted model, including his phantom titan. When I went to pick up some brushes recently, I saw him playing there - his entire army now is primed black with a pass of red spray for the upper third of the models and another pass of blue for the lower third. The base was apparently dipped into some think green-grey paint (maybe wall paint?) which he was losing all over the table.
Grey models seriously look better than that, and I would hate myself for losing 10VP for some half-painted unit while he gets the full bonus for ruining his models.

Square bases look so wrong though in 40k.

It is true that people looking for comp games are usually up to standard, and those with "outdated" stuff are looking for laid back games, I have 100% seen the same patterns among people I have played with.
I have alos learned to not remark on the "outdated" part, because usually the laid back dude doesn't want to buy any GW stuff anymore (they usually grunt something along the line of "until GW does this or that like in 3rd edition, I am not buying anymore GW stuff"), and doesn't want to be pressured into anything. Not even in playing better (which is a problem because you can hardly lose to such types, making the games uninteresting, but that is another subject).

You mentioned our lord Ghaz, which is a fine example. I would honestly not agree to play against someone wanting to field the old model, because Ghaz rules are balanced around the size of the model, in terms of getting around on the battlefield (you can move block him with his fairly large monster base), and in terms of hiding around the battlefield as you said. The old model is now a mega armour nob, nothing more. And I think 99% of ork players are cool with that.

Well, I would have no problems if the old Ghaz was on the new base size and had some tactical rocks to help him look over crates

For sure they look better on 32mm no discounting that fact.

Its purely just an argument of rebasing 200boyz depending on who you talk to, most likely a good chunk of which are the slotted kind from AOBR.
Thats the only reason i dont rebase mine. If i only had ~90 boyz and wanted a 4th 30man blob i'd probably put them on 32mm.
But i have easily 150 boyz on bases and about half of them are slotted. No thanks.

Also a hilarious "modelling for advantage" argument is the admech flyer. Normally flyers are...what is it 5" off the ground? That one was specifically shown landed. Everyones like "if you do that you are a cheater because its a much lower profile" how is following the optional instructions cheating lol

Not only boyz. Lootas, tankbustas, kommandos, stomboyz, nobz, etc... people who own long time collections easily have 150-200+ ork models with the older bases, even those ones (like me) who don't own more than 90 boyz.

It's a large portion of the entire collection, so no, rebasing it's not a realistic option.

But... That may have been true in the world before... But now... COVID era is the perfect time to start such Tartarus undertakings. Huh Huh Huh

-> So much time before your next non-TTS game, you have
-> Rebasing those 200 ork models (boyz. Lootas, tankbustas, kommandos, stomboyz, nobz, etc), you will

Yeaaaaah, I mean COVID has been great for basing and painting for my army in general (my army was basically one big pile of grey shame until I got laid off) but Gork's teeth if I'll ever bother ripping them off and buying all the bases I'd need to replace them. Even buying 32mm slots for them would take forever, I usually just play with friends who aren't hyper competitive so screw that noise lol.

FAQ:

*Page 65 – Embark
Change the second sentence of the second paragraph to read:
‘Unless specifically stated, other units’ abilities have no effect on
units while they are embarked, and Stratagems cannot be used to
affect units while they are embarked.’

About freaking time, this should have been addressed right off the bat.
No more jackoffs arguing i dont get my deathskull rerolls in a transport

With the Bring it Down nerf, does this make Mek Gunz less of a liability in mass boyz lists? You're extremely unlikely to max out it, outside of bringing an absurd amount of 10+ Mek Gunz which wouldn't happen such a list anyways. It also makes taking buggy lists less of a guaranteed 15 VP loss.

Mek Gunz will probably still max that secondary out if you bring any other vehicles too but least its not 6 mek gunz + 2 other vehicles = full points anymore.

Yup, I would assume that's the case, but that gives boyz heavy lists a little more oomph in terms of backline shooting and objective holders without giving an easy Bring it Down secondary to take for your opponent.

Also, I looked at the SotB FAQ and it says it's updated, but it looks identical to the older one, did they actually change anything?

im thinking some of them they uploaded the wrong doc for.
Saga of the Beast is updated too....but i dont see a difference.

Also, the Big Mek with KFF is now 60 points for the new points system sheet they made for everyone. I'm guessing that's what they're addressing for the SoTB pdf? I don't know what else there is, but I'll take a 15 point cut if that's the case!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
im thinking some of them they uploaded the wrong doc for.
Saga of the Beast is updated too....but i dont see a difference.

I remember them doing the same thing last time. They can't help but upload the wrong doc for Orks lol xD

The smashagun is actually missing from the manufactorum. Were there any point differences that you guys saw? I noticed some increase but I just assumed they were about standard weapons.

Smashagunz are missing in FAQ. Also cool....

Special section about shooting from Transports makes clear - no strategems, no ousides auras /abilities but the detachement and unit abilities works:

“ 7. Any abilities (including Detachment abilities) that models in an embarked unit have, or that their weapons have, continue to apply when they make ranged attacks.”

Gruxz wrote:
The smashagun is actually missing from the manufactorum. Were there any point differences that you guys saw? I noticed some increase but I just assumed they were about standard weapons.

I think it's the baseline that they treat the mek gun as having the smasha gun as the main weapon given that its current price point is what the total of smasha guns are right now. They probably need to make that more clear though.

Theres also a Nob Biker issue.

Its listed twice, both in the Codex and FW section. Codex is 35pts, FW is 30pts.

Dafuq gw lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Theres also a Nob Biker issue.

Its listed twice, both in the Codex and FW section. Codex is 35pts, FW is 30pts.

Dafuq gw lol

Wait for it, they're going to get rid of the FW section one because people bring it up xD

Was there any other major changes in the FAQ? I didn't notice anything when I glanced through it earlier. (And it doesn't seem like they addressed our Stompa lol)

Wow, while we stand, we fight now allows units to be split up. In order to get the vp, all units must die.

Mek guns?

Potential, but unless you got 3 6man squads of mek gunz and nothing more expensive than that (note that includes 30man boy blobz, MANz squads, Ghaz, Nauts, and Tankbustas) its still not viable for us.

6 Smashas is only 240pts, we have a lot that can easily cost more than that.

No, that change is for Custodes. That hyper elite "unit" that becomes a mass of individuals? Hunt them all down, or get nothing.

Da boomer counts as killkannon so periscope rule apply to it <3

Gruxz wrote:
Wow, while we stand, we fight now allows units to be split up. In order to get the vp, all units must die.

Mek guns?

Yeah, I think it'll be tough for Mek Gunz to pull that off beyond a few fringe lists. It doesn't help that they can take up a lot of space one you get them in numbers that big and it's hard for them to get anywhere with the small base movement they have.

Also have a look at new point values:


I hope that they miss smasha gun option for mek gun as this is default set up.

wojtekwroc wrote:
Also have a look at new point values:

Spoiler:

I hope that they miss smasha gun option for mek gun as this is default set up.

Guess not. They just missed it and the surprice is SMG point increase...

I apologize for the laziness, at work. Any point changes aside from the smasha?

 Tomsug wrote:

wojtekwroc wrote:
Also have a look at new point values:

Spoiler:

I hope that they miss smasha gun option for mek gun as this is default set up.

Guess not. They just missed it and the surprice is SMG point increase...

They were 40, and they are still 40. Smg is default, 0 point load out. Or am I an idiot and misread it all ? Wouldn’t be the first time

I will now go green stuff the last bits my kill tank needs before being ready to roll. And after that, while it solidifies, I will come back here to see if I am an idiot

ehkem.... sorry for dumb question. What is SMG?

wojtekwroc wrote:
ehkem.... sorry for dumb question. What is SMG?

It's a shorthand for Smasha Gun for the Mek Gun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Keramory wrote:
I apologize for the laziness, at work. Any point changes aside from the smasha?

From what I can tell, it's just the Big Mek with KFF becoming 60 points overall versus the 75 that was established earlier in the SoTB FAQ, which, if you notice, no longer has the points for it listed there. Everything else looks the same.

Guys, in 9th an option that is missing from points is simply free. Options are decided by that data sheet, not by the points list.

Only tricky part is when you replace a weapon with another weapon. Like a deffdread. The 75pts is in theory when it has 2 klaws and 2 shootas, but the replacements cost the same if you're dropping a klaw or shoota for it. So you can't save a couple points by going 4 saws for instance. And 4 guns (as questionable an idea as it is) costs a little more. Not a massive deal but, eh I liked some of the sillier builds.

Yeah, Smasha is "free" now, but the base is 40pts.

The other guns are costing differently too to compensate.

Not sure why they did that now instead of during the codex but it is what it is.

There is no reason except pure hope to say SMG is default = for free. RAW is clear:

“ Each Mek Gun is equipped with either a bubblechukka, kustom mega-kannon, smasha gun or traktor kannon.”

So this is more badly written FAQ than some change in the rules...

Looks like FAQ that needs FAQ...

Or do you really believe, the fact that is missing means it' s for free? Couple of months ago they release whole rulebook with missing rules for main gunz! How can you trust it?

I mean, to an extent we are making assumptions.

Mekgun was 25 without a gun, one gun was mandatory and you have 4 options. Cheapest was the Smasha for 15 making it 40.

GW changed it to Mekgun costs 40, you have the option to change it to 3 other weapons.

We are assuming that the Smasha is the default and you can replace it with the others for a cost because it's not listed as one of the options.

I suppose this is a case as RAI vs RAW, because RAW using only the points and the old datasheets you can't actually take a smasha at all until the Codex gets an FAQ (or a new codex)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Potential, but unless you got 3 6man squads of mek gunz and nothing more expensive than that (note that includes 30man boy blobz, MANz squads, Ghaz, Nauts, and Tankbustas) its still not viable for us.

6 Smashas is only 240pts, we have a lot that can easily cost more than that.

No, that change is for Custodes. That hyper elite "unit" that becomes a mass of individuals? Hunt them all down, or get nothing.

You take 3 dragsters (330).

Take 5 Smashas plus 1 traktor (250), allowing you to take 30 boys + kill saw nob.

Honestly, I think it'll be trivial to build around While We Stand, We Fight as Orks now, and I think it's something worth considering.

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Was there any other major changes in the FAQ? I didn't notice anything when I glanced through it earlier. (And it doesn't seem like they addressed our Stompa lol)

mek with KFF is 15 points cheaper... i guess that was a print error since THE REST IS EXACTLY THE SAME...

they even listed nob bikers twice (codex vs forgeworld)... well or it costs 5 points less to be in the FA section



well... more of the same... orks got ignored

RedNoak wrote:

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Was there any other major changes in the FAQ? I didn't notice anything when I glanced through it earlier. (And it doesn't seem like they addressed our Stompa lol)

mek with KFF is 15 points cheaper... i guess that was a print error since THE REST IS EXACTLY THE SAME...

they even listed nob bikers twice (codex vs forgeworld)... well or it costs 5 points less to be in the FA section



well... more of the same... orks got ignored

Unfortunately, we're doing pretty well competitively in most tournament showings, so GW is unlikely to touch us until our actual codex comes out, even though units like stormboyz, burna boyz, lootas and flash gitz all need some points tuning to make them worth considering.

 Tomsug wrote:
There is no reason except pure hope to say SMG is default = for free. RAW is clear:

“ Each Mek Gun is equipped with either a bubblechukka, kustom mega-kannon, smasha gun or traktor kannon.”

So this is more badly written FAQ than some change in the rules...

Looks like FAQ that needs FAQ...

Or do you really believe, the fact that is missing means it' s for free? Couple of months ago they release whole rulebook with missing rules for main gunz! How can you trust it?

Yes, that's exactly how the 9th edition format works. The Marines, Necrons and the new FW book all work that way.

You build your unit according to the datasheet in the codex. Literally nothing else matters for what a model can take. Then you check the points section for the price of what you have build. Any option that doesn't have a price listed does not increase the model's cost, but is priced into the base cost.

Nice that BID went down, but the SAG WWS,WF build is out, so back at Scramblers + Engage + kill summat. I´d like more of a shakeup with secondaries really. It´s to set (and those Mareeehns still get the better stuff with Oath)

 Jidmah wrote:


Yes, that's exactly how the 9th edition format works. The Marines, Necrons and the new FW book all work that way.

You build your unit according to the datasheet in the codex. Literally nothing else matters for what a model can take. Then you check the points section for the price of what you have build. Any option that doesn't have a price listed does not increase the model's cost, but is priced into the base cost.

Well, it' s very RAW... and the numbers described by Cody above support it. But man, hey.... I don' t expect so much from the people but this anger me. For such unclearness in sheets I bully my guys in the office during first or second revision. Far before final check and go public. And even kids still at the uni take it fast and see it also...

That's not RAW, not even close to it, and what cody wrote is simpy wrong.

If cody were right, you wouldn't even be allowed to put a single gun on any buggy, boyz are not allowed to take choppas or sluggas or shootas and lootas do not have deff guns.

Permission to take options is granted by the datasheet, and nothing else. The datasheet says "Each Mek Gun is equipped with either a bubblechukka, kustom mega-kannon, smasha gun or traktor kannon."

This has absolutely nothing to do with RAW or RAI, just with people failing to wrap their mind around the new format for points.

hey dawg, i heard you like FAQs, so now we're making mistakes, so you get to have FAQs for your FAQs!


I like that the KFF big Mek is cheaper though. And it always bothered me when i went for killa kanz and Grot tanks for the giggles that my enemy just max'ed out "bring it down" instantly.

Glad thats over.

From FAQ " If a Transport model is under the effects of a modifier to its ranged attacks (such as a modifier to its hit rolls, wound rolls,
etc.) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model makes a ranged attack."

Does it mean, that >Competitive streak< will work on embarked units?

ninjaska wrote:
From FAQ " If a Transport model is under the effects of a modifier to its ranged attacks (such as a modifier to its hit rolls, wound rolls,
etc.) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model makes a ranged attack."

Does it mean, that >Competitive streak< will work on embarked units?

Yes, as it did in 8th edition. If I'm not wrong (I don't have experience with Freebootas) it already worked in 9th before this FAQ actually.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:


From what I can tell, it's just the Big Mek with KFF becoming 60 points overall versus the 75 that was established earlier in the SoTB FAQ, which, if you notice, no longer has the points for it listed there. Everything else looks the same.

GW took a step back. He was the cheapest ork HQ in 8th, now he's regained that status.

Which is a bit ironic considering that he's also the only character that doesn't have an official model. Like GW is pushing for something they currently don't sell .

I wonder if buggies are back in the game. This is a list I was running in a battle report I wrote earlier this edition:



It used to give up 28 VP. Now it's 16VP, assuming they wipe out everything.

If you give up 16 CP you´ve lost anyway, so it seems like a decent bet. More likely you´ll give up something around 10.

What´s the secondary plan? Engage + what and what?

Actually, I prefer linebreaker because it's super easy to score with buggies and worst case a single trukk boyz unit can score it by themselves. With engage I lose too much if my backfield gets broken in.
Scramblers is the second one, third one is either a kill or mission objective. Worst case I pick cut of the head(for beatstrick characters) or assassinate and try to blow up characters with the wartrike or SJD.
The new while we stand, we fight might not be bad either, requiring your opponent to kill the naut(eh), da boomer(people usually don't want to shoot it) and all three SJD which are quite easy to hide.

If you want to take this to a tournament, you should probably drop the naut and the wartrike and max out scrap jets and SJD and get some more trukk boyz. My list is more defined by what is in my collection than anything.

 Jidmah wrote:
Actually, I prefer linebreaker because it's super easy to score with buggies and worst case a single trukk boyz unit can score it by themselves. With engage I lose too much if my backfield gets broken in.
Scramblers is the second one, third one is either a kill or mission objective. Worst case I pick cut of the head(for beatstrick characters) or assassinate and try to blow up characters with the wartrike or SJD.
The new while we stand, we fight might not be bad either, requiring your opponent to kill the naut(eh), da boomer(people usually don't want to shoot it) and all three SJD which are quite easy to hide.

If you want to take this to a tournament, you should probably drop the naut and the wartrike and max out scrap jets and SJD and get some more trukk boyz. My list is more defined by what is in my collection than anything.

while this is a rules question, would you mind explaining to me how a single trukk boy squad can take line breaker? Do they count as 2 units if they are still inside the vehicle? I didnt think they did for the sake of linebreaker.

All good reasoning. We do indeed have an edge in Linebreaker with our Buggies, cheap transports + infantry. I even assume more armies will pick up this strategy with BID gone down.

Beardedragon wrote:


while this is a rules question, would you mind explaining to me how a single trukk boy squad can take line breaker? Do they count as 2 units if they are still inside the vehicle? I didnt think they did for the sake of linebreaker.

Don't worry, questions like this are perfectly on topic, you're asking about how a unit can accomplish a task, which is definitely about tactics .

The embarked unit doesn't count as technically it's not on the table, so it doesn't satisfies the requirements to accomplish the secondary objective. You need a second unit to get Linebreaker or to disembark the boyz.

Linebreaker and Engage on all Fronts are quite similar concept wise, but with Linebreaker you can score 4 VPs in one turn thanks to two units. You can't do it with Engage, as you need more units (3 or 4) to accomplish that objective and you can score only 2 or 3 VPs in one turn. That's the main difference between the two secondaries, although considering the entire game they're basically on par, both good for ork mechanized armies.

am i the only one really disappointed about grots remaining 5 points. i get that gw wants that as a floor... but come on a grot is not nearly as valuable as a guardsman.

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Actually, I prefer linebreaker because it's super easy to score with buggies and worst case a single trukk boyz unit can score it by themselves. With engage I lose too much if my backfield gets broken in.
Scramblers is the second one, third one is either a kill or mission objective. Worst case I pick cut of the head(for beatstrick characters) or assassinate and try to blow up characters with the wartrike or SJD.
The new while we stand, we fight might not be bad either, requiring your opponent to kill the naut(eh), da boomer(people usually don't want to shoot it) and all three SJD which are quite easy to hide.

If you want to take this to a tournament, you should probably drop the naut and the wartrike and max out scrap jets and SJD and get some more trukk boyz. My list is more defined by what is in my collection than anything.

while this is a rules question, would you mind explaining to me how a single trukk boy squad can take line breaker? Do they count as 2 units if they are still inside the vehicle? I didnt think they did for the sake of linebreaker.

Ah, yes, I over-simplified that. Essentially you have the boyz jump out and have both move into the enemy deployment zone, the the trukk often acting as shield for the boyz, either by blocking sight or by charging nearby shooting units. Not as useful in the beginning of the game, but during T3 attacking an objective in your opponent's deployment zone this way can easily yield a lot of VP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
am i the only one really disappointed about grots remaining 5 points. i get that gw wants that as a floor... but come on a grot is not nearly as valuable as a guardsman.

Guardmen went up though - they are now 55 points for 10.

That said, to me it seems like GW didn't put much effort into internal balance of anything that doesn't have a codex yet. Which kind of makes sense.

yeah GW is known as of late to put little if any effort into a race that has a codex in the works.

Something will happen with grots in the new codex, i am sure of it. Until then, dont expect anything.

fair point on 55 so... 5.5 points per model though the sarg probably accounts for a few of those points vs grots where its 40 point for a runtherd (admittedly better than the sarg but not 40 points good). I hope you ar right on the codex front vine. making something like grot shield a innate ability would mayeb work. that and make the grot blaster the equivalent of a lasgun to use that BS4+

I want grot units which we could feed to a giant shock attack gun or something. Each turn you feed them you get a massive "Supa shock attack gun" effect, like we had in the supplement with the relic SSAG. If the unit has like at least 6 grots remaining in it. Booom headshot

to the person asking how Liam Hackett's list would play.

Adrian of Tabletop Titans is literally playing the list he brought to masters tomorrow

 addnid wrote:
I want grot units which we could feed to a giant shock attack gun or something. Each turn you feed them you get a massive "Supa shock attack gun" effect, like we had in the supplement with the relic SSAG. If the unit has like at least 6 grots remaining in it. Booom headshot

That reminds me of the old Apoc formation you could take with the SAG and snotlings (like legit snotlings, from the WFB range from what I could see for pics) that gave the SAG extra oomph. Frankly, with the death of specialist detachments, I wouldn't be surprised if they gave a strat to SAG to buff one up for a turn during a shooting phase. Probably not as crazy as shooting twice, but if the SSAG isn't reintroduced as a baseline relic, I could see them giving you 2D6 pick the one highest for shots or 3D6 pick the two highest for strength.

But I generally agree, if they must make the bottom be 5 points per model as the minimum for units, then the grot has to increase in utility. Besides built in grot shields, it would be interesting to see them reimplement "It's a Grot's Life" rule they used to have back when minefields were a thing, where instead of it being only used as a living carpet, having grots not counting towards any secondary objectives with regards to giving up VP's would be interesting, to emphasize how worthless they are and the waste of time they act as bullet catchers. That or maybe something with regards to performing actions, like being able to move/shoot while doing so.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
fair point on 55 so... 5.5 points per model though the sarg probably accounts for a few of those points vs grots where its 40 point for a runtherd (admittedly better than the sarg but not 40 points good). I hope you ar right on the codex front vine. making something like grot shield a innate ability would mayeb work. that and make the grot blaster the equivalent of a lasgun to use that BS4+

If they would included the runtherder free with a squad of grots.... I’d probably use one..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 addnid wrote:
I want grot units which we could feed to a giant shock attack gun or something. Each turn you feed them you get a massive "Supa shock attack gun" effect, like we had in the supplement with the relic SSAG. If the unit has like at least 6 grots remaining in it. Booom headshot

shock atk guns use to require snotling bases... not sure reverting back to that is a good idea. I still use my original shokk atk gun and still have my snotling bases in a box in the basement.
Just reduce the overnerfed price and bring back the relic.

Or they could just have the regular SAG cost 80 and make the SSAG a 40 point upgrade.

gungo wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
fair point on 55 so... 5.5 points per model though the sarg probably accounts for a few of those points vs grots where its 40 point for a runtherd (admittedly better than the sarg but not 40 points good). I hope you ar right on the codex front vine. making something like grot shield a innate ability would mayeb work. that and make the grot blaster the equivalent of a lasgun to use that BS4+

If they would included the runtherder free with a squad of grots.... I’d probably use one..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 addnid wrote:
I want grot units which we could feed to a giant shock attack gun or something. Each turn you feed them you get a massive "Supa shock attack gun" effect, like we had in the supplement with the relic SSAG. If the unit has like at least 6 grots remaining in it. Booom headshot

shock atk guns use to require snotling bases... not sure reverting back to that is a good idea. I still use my original shokk atk gun and still have my snotling bases in a box in the basement.
Just reduce the overnerfed price and bring back the relic.

even a runt herd included for 9 grots and a runtherd for 50 compare that to 9 boyz and a nob for 80. 30 points for +2 str, +2T and everything but BS better... but still having better guns.

 Jidmah wrote:
Or they could just have the regular SAG cost 80 and make the SSAG a 40 point upgrade.

Yeah, that'd work. Though I don't think we'd make many friends with multiple SSAG Meks in lists, like we need more people yelling cheese about Orks haha .

I'd like 100ppm Big Mek with SAG and the SSAG as a relic. Or a point upgrade like the Chapter Master for SM, one per army anyway. Multiple SSAG could be overpowered.

Gretchins at 5ppm are extremely overcosted; to be good they'd have to gain Grot Shields as a free ability that works for any infantry model that satisfies the requirements. Maybe just on a 4+, incresed to 2+ by stratagem.

The whole reason for the 5pt grits is they get a 6+ invulnerable save with their culture. Guardsmen or any other Troops besides Deathskulls rarely have invulnerable saves. If you use grots chances are you are taking a detachment with only grots Mek guns and a big Mek kff so in that case using their culture is not a problem at all.

I still think subcultures is mostly a failure...
I think they need to just incorporate subcultures as unit themed buffs.
If clans are akin to chapter tactics
I think subkulturs need to be akin to doctrines, acts fo faith or canticles etc

A set of additional rules we can get each turn maybe give us a choice and we choose which order and which turn they are in effect?

Or better yet a sub doctrine where a subkulture affects a certain slot such as fast attack with the first subkulture being free and the next costing a command point.

For example tin heads could be a heavy support subkulture.

GW is just slowly killing off the cheap troops that people are spamming instead of their respective signature troops. Gretchin got a points hike so people would bring boyz.

Hey fellas! Any thoughts about Stormboy Nobs? Got some stormboyz that need buildin', and I must say, as much as I want to give my unit leader more grenades than he can carry, I also like the idea of hurling a screaming, power-claw wielding maniac into my enemy's lines with my lil 5-man distraction carnifex.

What say you?

Currently the killsaws are the best weapon points can buy. This is likely to change with the codex, so if you want to future-proof scratch-build something that passes as both a PK and a killsaw (some big choppa heads work for this). If you want max power now, go for double killsaws.

 posermcbogus wrote:
Hey fellas! Any thoughts about Stormboy Nobs? Got some stormboyz that need buildin', and I must say, as much as I want to give my unit leader more grenades than he can carry, I also like the idea of hurling a screaming, power-claw wielding maniac into my enemy's lines with my lil 5-man distraction carnifex.

What say you?

considering he is the same price as a normal stormboy yes always take a nob if you want to take them. power klaw/choppa imo is the loadout to use lets you have a chance vs tanks at str 10. the idea of them flying around is not going to happen though unless your opponent bring zero shooting. The only effective use I have found is 5 drop in out of LOS then chase down a vehicle or your opponent's backfield objective holder. at T4 6+ armor they die to a still breeze (seriously, one round of bolter fire from one squad is likely to wipe them)

Subkultures need to be a unit specific kulture swap thats independent of the detachment.
Only 1 unit can be chosen per subkulture, but its a free swap (note that it means you lose the normal kulture and any <CLAN> effects change)

Yeah, it would mean Killakanz would never NOT be Grotmobz but tbh who cares they need a bone anyway. It would also enable all those weird subkultures that never get used purely because half the requirements for any detachment (namely HQs) dont benefit at all.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Subkultures need to be a unit specific kulture swap thats independent of the detachment.
Only 1 unit can be chosen per subkulture, but its a free swap (note that it means you lose the normal kulture and any <CLAN> effects change)

Yeah, it would mean Killakanz would never NOT be Grotmobz but tbh who cares they need a bone anyway. It would also enable all those weird subkultures that never get used purely because half the requirements for any detachment (namely HQs) dont benefit at all.

Yeah, this would definitely be one of the better ways of having it being implemented into the main Ork codex. It does really emphasize the "subkultur" part of it being a subset within a klan than one that's the equivalent to klan traits in general. As you pointed out, the fact that they are all so unit specific for their buffs means they may as well only apply to them within a detachment.

With the rumour engine pics of decidely Orky stuff, we'll definitely have something by the end of this year, and we'll probably have something thrown for us in the Charadon campaign, so we'll get some juicy 9th ed paradigm stuff soon.

Honestly all the cultures need reworking in my opinion. There is really only two Deathskulls and Goffs. And Goffs only if you bring Ghaz.
I mentioned the grot subculture because I’m sick of people complaining that guardsmen have better guns at the same price. I would take 6++ over any version of 3 strength gun you can come up with.
All that being said I would take Boyz over grots 10 out of 10 times regardless of edition/meta

technically speaking, Goff sucks too.
The only reason its performing well right now is because boy spam is anti-meta, and the game is mosh-pit focused rather than get to the other side of the battlefield, so their lower mobility doesnt make as big a difference.
The moment boy spam becomes too easy to counter, again, they will suck. Again.

I'd agree that all of them except Deathskullz need a rework. Some minor, some major. Hell just give me Bad Moonz' reroll on all hits and call it good lol

Like I said Goffs are dependent on Ghaz to be optimally effective but they hardly suck. 9th is all about the midfield or mosh pit as you said. That won’t change any time soon. Green tide is our most competitive option and Goffs lead by Ghaz do it better than anybody.
Gaining an extra attack on 6s on its own does suck I’ll give you that but if that’s how you play Goffs then your doing it wrong. Throw in a reroll on 1s from Ghaz and a +1 to hit from the banner nob and now all of a sudden you are getting more wounds then you had attacks to begin with.
Throw in a painboy and a big Mek with kff and now you have some serious staying power especially since everyone you face will shoot their best guns at Ghaz. 120 boys with obsec and legit killing power is a problem for anyone.

I would agree with Vineheart01 that Goffs as a standalone trait isn't great tbh. Sure, it's not bad once you've stacked the odds in your favour with Ghaz and the Skarboyz strat, but when you look at Deffskullz you literally just need the trait and the army is golden. Similar to how they should update DDD! to getting an additional hit rather than shot when rolling an unmodded 6, Goffs should also just give a flat extra hit on unmodded 6's to save time for rolling and making it more consistent. Also, given that the 9th ed mainline subfaction traits are shown to have at least two rules components to them, that Goffs should gain an additional AP on their weapons on the turn they charge. Now the Goffs trait makes units beyond just boyz legitimately scarier in CC. Goff stormboyz with Zagstruk could actually do something when they get stuck in. Goff walkerz and even small units of Kommandos suddenly have a lot more oomph in clearing out units. There's also incentive to take guys like Nobz or Nob Bikerz, who now hit a lot harder, even with just regular Choppas.

Deffskullz is so good precisely because it has like traits in one, and all of them are exceedingly good even on their own.

Snakebitez, Goffs, and Bad Moonz are all one trait klanz that rely on strats and specific units to do anything. Blood Axes suck because the two traits they do have are pretty much pointless for the majority of Ork units and Evil Sunz only recently went down in usage due to the smaller table size and decrease in tellyporting boyz units as a tactic. I'd like that to change so there's more nuance in look at the traits baseline so there isn't such a disparity.

Bad Moonz could be gaining two hits instead of one when DDD! goes off for a unit with the klan trait that makes a shooting attack. The second trait could be adding an additional AP to any shoota type weapon fired by a Bad Moon Unit (this would specify it as regular shootas, big shootas, supa shootas, kustom shootas, boomsticks, and, if deffguns remain the same, them as well).

Assuming Snakebitez keep the 6+ FNP, make it improve to a 5+ FNP if they're in range of a Painboy (infantry/biker only of course). The secondary trait should be allowing units to reroll wound rolls of 1 against MONSTERS and VEHICLES.

These are just a couple of examples of what they could do. Update or touch up on some of the more useless strats/relics and we'd finally have some more HQ composition options besides the obligatory killa klaw warboss.

tulun wrote:
to the person asking how Liam Hackett's list would play.

Adrian of Tabletop Titans is literally playing the list he brought to masters tomorrow

Good tip! So the answer is:

Sit 3 SMG on the second floor in the midle of your deploy + one unit of MANz in the 1st flor to babysit them. Nobody can shoot on them and if you want to CC with them, you have to pass the MANz.
2 Truks takes the rest of the MANz
1 Trukk takes the Tanbustas

No trick with Trukks protecting the SMGs or driving them around.

Of course it' s semi answer, it' s how Adrian from TT plays Liam Hacket list is....

Yeah, what Grimskul said.

Deathskullz just has all the traits, quite frankly im surprised they never nerfed them to remove something. They not only have 3 bonuses but all 3 are amazing (6+++, reroll 1 hit/wound/dmg die per unit per attack, infantry has obsec)

How does any single trait stack up against that w/o being borderline broken in its own right?

Its fine for some kultures to have more traits than others but there shouldnt be any singletrait ones. Especially since orks are a diverse codex, we have both pure shooty and pure assault and a hybrid so a kulture that only benefits one of them is stupid.
Its anothing thing changing subkultures to how i mentioned it earlier would solve, those main kultures that basically shelve half the codex can still use those units, but as a subkulture

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah, what Grimskul said.

Deathskullz just has all the traits, quite frankly im surprised they never nerfed them to remove something. They not only have 3 bonuses but all 3 are amazing (6+++, reroll 1 hit/wound/dmg die per unit per attack, infantry has obsec)

How does any single trait stack up against that w/o being borderline broken in its own right?

Its fine for some kultures to have more traits than others but there shouldnt be any singletrait ones. Especially since orks are a diverse codex, we have both pure shooty and pure assault and a hybrid so a kulture that only benefits one of them is stupid.
Its anothing thing changing subkultures to how i mentioned it earlier would solve, those main kultures that basically shelve half the codex can still use those units, but as a subkulture

Based on what happened to the Salamanders trait, it seems likely DS is getting a nerf with the next codex.

wasnt the main thing that reeled salamanders back was stratagem changes? i though their faction rules werent the main issue

Them losing the single free reroll to hit for each unit was still big in terms of them having to rely on the aura/CM buffs like every other chapter, whereas before you could basically MSU all their units and only need to bring the one captain for one big blob unit that relied more on mass amount of attacks rather than lower quantity, but higher quality attacks. The changes to their strats were definitely another big reason to their competitive status taking a bit of a hit.

I agree that Deffskullz are only likely to keep the 6++ invuln and obsec. (though it may be buffed to be given to everything rather than just infantry, since the Necron one does that for all their units). If they do somehow keep the reroll buff, I'd expect it to be only for a to-wound roll and not both to hit and the damage roll as well.

 Grimskul wrote:
... If they do somehow keep the reroll buff, I'd expect it to be only for a to-wound roll and not both to hit and the damage roll as well.

If they only had that, it'd still be a strong trait.

 Grimskul wrote:
...Assuming Snakebitez keep the 6+ FNP, make it improve to a 5+ FNP if they're in range of a Painboy (infantry/biker only of course). The secondary trait should be allowing units to reroll wound rolls of 1 against MONSTERS and VEHICLES.

To keep it thematic, I'd drop the VEHICLE, and give them them the re-roll to hit, wound and damage against MONSTERS only. Maybe also give them immunity to poison wounds, or the ability to have poison weapons in combat.

More dumb questions from myself!

I got the SC orks box, 20 gretchin, and a box of stormboyz for xmas - any tips for loadouts? I dream of having a green tide army with lots of kans and dredds and gargants etc, but for now, what are some decent killy ways of tooling up me boyz?

 posermcbogus wrote:
More dumb questions from myself!

I got the SC orks box, 20 gretchin, and a box of stormboyz for xmas - any tips for loadouts? I dream of having a green tide army with lots of kans and dredds and gargants etc, but for now, what are some decent killy ways of tooling up me boyz?

For the boyz, you probably want them as slugga boyz, with the boyz Nob equipped with a Killsaw or Power Klaw (The Killsaw bit is from the Nobz kit part of the box). The Deff dread is best with all klaws and saws or with 2 klaws, 1 saw and a Kustom Mega Blasta. Nobz are in a bit of a weird spot currently in the Ork codex, I would actually save them for bitz and boyz nobz when you inevitably add more boyz but if you want to run them as a separate unit, double choppas with a few big choppas or dual killsaws are okay loadouts for them.

Definitely magnetize your dread. You will regret it otherwise, as every single codex has changed what load-outs work best. It's also not very hard to do, they were among the first models I've ever magnetized.

If you need any suggestions on how to do that, just ask.

I have two of the older metal Deff Dreads, and I really wish they could have been magnetized, because the best loadout depends a lot on how you field them, in what type of list and so on. If I were to get some of the newer plastic ones, then I would definitely have magnetized them.

I also have a 3rd edition metal dread. I prefer it to the plastic one and I love to bring it to the table. That said proxying the two ranged weapons into KMBs, or any other desired ranged weapons, is definitely an acceptable proxy, I never had anyone complaining about that.

I have and ancient 3rd edition White Dwarf with a battle report involving orks and SM, and the ork player had a metal dread modelled with two big shootas but he proxied as rokkit launchas for that game.

The most modern dread I had it magnetized and thankfully its kit comes with all the available combinations, barring the odd ones with just one or no CCWs. Old model didn't have the extra CCWs or even a duplicate of each ranged weapon.

New tales from our recurring segment "Why would you do that? - Jidmah tries stupid things in games".

I actually ran my buggy list yesterday, except I brought rukkatrukk squigbuggies instead of megatrakk scrapjets and it almost lost me the game.

Obviously, I bought the kustom job for them, because they need any help they can get. I was facing a CWE list heavily leaning on FW units, bringing a total of 20 shadow specters, a wraith seer and 3 hornets.

The table was suffering from the "moar terrain!" issue many 9th editions games have these days, so the game started out with a huge traffic jam. There was nowhere I could drop mines without blowing up my own units. Damage-wise they did a little better than KBB due to the +1 to wound, but honestly that is the least I'd expect from spending 60 additional points and a CP. Anyways, they weren't that impressive at all. The bile squig was useless against eldar infantry in cover, the biter squig only mattered when locked in combat (because it's the only mode without blast), so you end up shooting everything from infantry to hornets to wraith seer with boom squigs which feels like the perfect weapon against... nothing.

In the end, the new scoring rules came to the rescue, in the last turn of the game, da biggest boss on bike massacred the occupants of one objective, one surviving squigbuggy managed to kill four rangers on another by shooting and charging which was then enough to score me 15 VP in my last turn, ending the game at 50 to 36. My opponent didn't pick it, but bring it down would still have awarded him 11 VP, with a single trukk and a squigbuggy as my remaining vehicles.

Is there a reason, Freebooters are overlooked? +1 to hit in the fight and shooting phase with a 24 inch aura per unit being buffed seems pretty good. If you go for beatstick warboss, the FB warlord trait is also pretty good

 Elfric wrote:
Is there a reason, Freebooters are overlooked? +1 to hit in the fight and shooting phase with a 24 inch aura per unit being buffed seems pretty good. If you go for beatstick warboss, the FB warlord trait is also pretty good

You actually need to kill something in order to trigger it, and especially marines regularly deny that kill. In that case, you are effectively without trait. It also doesn't help that you can still stack -2 to hit against it.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Elfric wrote:
Is there a reason, Freebooters are overlooked? +1 to hit in the fight and shooting phase with a 24 inch aura per unit being buffed seems pretty good. If you go for beatstick warboss, the FB warlord trait is also pretty good

You actually need to kill something in order to trigger it, and especially marines regularly deny that kill. In that case, you are effectively without trait. It also doesn't help that you can still stack -2 to hit against it.

we are not saying Orks are incapable of 1 unit deleting another unit in one phase are we?

That's exactly what I'm saying.

 Jidmah wrote:
That's exactly what I'm saying.

If you delete a unit using most of your shooty units, then the +1 isn't that useful anymore because you don't have enough shots left which will benefit from the +1 to hit. That is what we are saying. That is why Freebooters is garabage in too many match ups to be viable in a TAC list. At least in my opinion. Custodes can be very hard to remove (-1 to hit hurts orks a lot more than other armies), harlequins can hide and stack defensive buffs, tyranids can stack defensive buffs (-1 to hit also), etc.

Now in casual games I think it may be potent. But casual games is not a thing where I play.

If we had some indirect shots back (they moved to legend i think), then we could be on to something though (not even sure I would take it though, too dicey for me)

Grimskul wrote:

For the boyz, you probably want them as slugga boyz, with the boyz Nob equipped with a Killsaw or Power Klaw (The Killsaw bit is from the Nobz kit part of the box). The Deff dread is best with all klaws and saws or with 2 klaws, 1 saw and a Kustom Mega Blasta. Nobz are in a bit of a weird spot currently in the Ork codex, I would actually save them for bitz and boyz nobz when you inevitably add more boyz but if you want to run them as a separate unit, double choppas with a few big choppas or dual killsaws are okay loadouts for them.

Already building 'em as slugga boyz! If nothing else, I want them to be melee centric, even if it doens't survive the edition

With the dread, what's the logic with the Kustom Mega Blasta? I'm slightly worried that as the biggest mini in the army (thus far), he'll be a huge draw for my enemy's anti-tank, so while I'm tempted to just go pure CC, the blasta almost seems like a waste of points?
Melee Nobs seem to be really popular, when running them as a unit. What do you (and anyone else reading this ) ideally like to point your nobz at, and with what loadout? What do they kill best, and what should I keep them away from? atm, they're gonna be foot slogging, so are there any big weaknesses (at a low points level) that I should be aware of for an elite ork unit?

Jidmah wrote:Definitely magnetize your dread. You will regret it otherwise, as every single codex has changed what load-outs work best. It's also not very hard to do, they were among the first models I've ever magnetized.

If you need any suggestions on how to do that, just ask.

Oooh, man, I was worried I'd get this answer. I actually am pretty confident that I could magnetize the dread pretty well. My local hobby shop has plenty of magnet bits, and after the hell that was/is my custodes, a nice big model like the dread seems comparatively easy. That said, I kinda hate the idea of all the work it involves, especially if I'm gonna buy more (in my dreams). In terms of, I guess the idea of how the unit works, and what has worked for you in the past, if, hypothetically, you were to glue, not magnetize, is there any load out you'd go for?

Personally, I'm tempted by claws n' saws, because it might reduce its shooting priority to my opponent, especially if I'm hurling a bunch of storm boyz/nobz/green tide down my enemy's throat. But at the same time, it feels like regardless, this unit will draw a lot anti-tank fire, because of the nature of the dread, and the rest of my army. Because of that, I'm a little tempted by the shootas (or whatever they're called hahaha) or the kustom mega blasta, just for the range, in case I can survive a turn, or the burna, to put off any hammernators/sternguard/wulfen etc.

Bonde wrote:I have two of the older metal Deff Dreads, and I really wish they could have been magnetized, because the best loadout depends a lot on how you field them, in what type of list and so on. If I were to get some of the newer plastic ones, then I would definitely have magnetized them.

...more magnetization...

...maybe I should get out the dremel.

Blackie wrote:I also have a 3rd edition metal dread. I prefer it to the plastic one and I love to bring it to the table. That said proxying the two ranged weapons into KMBs, or any other desired ranged weapons, is definitely an acceptable proxy, I never had anyone complaining about that.

I have and ancient 3rd edition White Dwarf with a battle report involving orks and SM, and the ork player had a metal dread modelled with two big shootas but he proxied as rokkit launchas for that game.

The most modern dread I had it magnetized and thankfully its kit comes with all the available combinations, barring the odd ones with just one or no CCWs. Old model didn't have the extra CCWs or even a duplicate of each ranged weapon.

Proxies etc are a little tempting, if only because the kit furnishes me (plus I got my hands on some of the old metal customizing kits - lots of rokkits ) with enough parts to do so. I feel like I could probably ork up a dread to carry everything, and then decide - and of course, tell my opponent - what the mek has decided to activate on the mini today

Anyway, thanks very much for the input, lads, really appreciate it! Sorry for the follow up questions I promise, one day I'll be a great big warboss wif loads of teef and gubbins and shiny bits and gits who listens to what I says and I'll krump everygit who comes my way!

 posermcbogus wrote:
Oooh, man, I was worried I'd get this answer. I actually am pretty confident that I could magnetize the dread pretty well. My local hobby shop has plenty of magnet bits, and after the hell that was/is my custodes, a nice big model like the dread seems comparatively easy. That said, I kinda hate the idea of all the work it involves, especially if I'm gonna buy more (in my dreams). In terms of, I guess the idea of how the unit works, and what has worked for you in the past, if, hypothetically, you were to glue, not magnetize, is there any load out you'd go for?

Honestly? If you have to glue it, I would suggest selling it for another model. I've been playing orks since 5th and the optimal loadout has become worthless by the next codex/edition more often than not. Just ask all the people with double skorcha dreads right now. If you do the same for your kanz, you can even swap weapons between them.

Heck, my own dreads only have the lower arms magnetize because you couldn't swap the top pair back then, and I regret doing so.

Do the magnets. It's super easy. Glue one magnet into the socket, cut of half the ball joint of the arms and glue the opposite site to thise. Done. No drilling, no worrying about not having the magnets stand out, nothing. Literally the only thing you need to worry about is gluing all the magnets facing in the same direction. I can provide pictures if you're interested.

100% willing to admit that Deffskullz are the best clan by far. They get a fair bit of buffs compared to the others.

No part of me is capable of removing myself from Evil Sunz despite that. I don't even understand the concept of willingly moving 5 inches with orks or making charges from DS on 9s. It all sounds horrible

Keramory wrote:
100% willing to admit that Deffskullz are the best clan by far. They get a fair bit of buffs compared to the others.

No part of me is capable of removing myself from Evil Sunz despite that. I don't even understand the concept of willingly moving 5 inches with orks or making charges from DS on 9s. It all sounds horrible

Well, you should have only one unit that charges from DS on 9s, which is Meganobz. And by the time they show up you should already have put pressure on the opponent so even if they fail that charge they wouldn't be prioritized too easily. Assault vehicles like a Gorkanaut or Bonebreaka should rely on Ramming Speed or start on the board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
That's exactly what I'm saying.

This. In practise only Mek Gunz can reliably trigger the trait for other shooting units, maybe SJDs too, and only Bonebreakas and Warbosses can do it for melee units. Typically you can't have an optimized list that makes good use for the trait in both phases with Freebootas, but Evil Sunz and Goffs are better close combat kultures while Deathskullz and Bad Moons currently outshoot the Freebooters. Freebooters basically died with the new points costs and the fact that they can't stack +2 to hit on Dakkajets which affected their most efficient units (SAG, Gretchins, Flash Gitz and the aforementioned Dakkajets) very badly.