Blood claws being only 13 points is awesome though. For 485 (guessing as come of the option costs) I can have 15 blood claws with a flamer and a powerfist in a LRC with a multi-melta.
Just camp that on the home objective, and/or take two, and rush one towards and objective and just park it there until it gets popped.
I've just realised, if the rumours about the changes to Wolf Guard Pack Leaders are correct, that's my fluffy Iron Hands list done for since SW were the only cheap way left to get a Terminator Sergeant for a regular squad of Marines. Thanks GW.
Seriously at this rate I might just try and persuade the local club to go back to 3rd Edition.
Hopefully it's just Bolter/Pistol and for +1 pt you get a CCW in addition to the Bolter/Pistol not replacing the Bolter or Pistol.
Also if they get rid of WG mixed Termie squads and being able to lead squads with Termies, I'll also be unhappy.
GW do seem to love making me unhappy though. My SW are hanging on a knife's edge at the moment, if GW screw them up, I think I'll just give the SW away.
"How do you make Space Wolves different enough to justify them having their own codex, while simultaneously keeping them on the same power-level as the other Marines"?
The more I hear the less I like, though. I mean, I'm not like a huge Space Wolves fan- frankly their special snowflake nonsense irritates me.
But from a design standpoint, if they're going to have their own codex, they need more things that set them apart from standard marines beyond just their gak having different names. Even in 5th they were on the hairty edge, with really only the sagas, the Wolf-Guard system and their HQ system setting them apart, mechanically. Rumors point to two of those three things going away in exchange for a Stormraven+1, and I wouldn't be surprised if they lost their special FoC too, considering what you can do with multiple detachments now.
Not surprising, as the past few codices have had a theme of GW "streamlining" or "simplifying" their features. Still disappointing, though.
Yeah, I am also disappointed with the changes to the Wolf Guard as announced so far. That being said, the Wolf Guard/Royal Court style mechanics were a tad gimmicky. There may be something to weeding them out.
Jefffar wrote: Yeah, I am also disappointed with the changes to the Wolf Guard as announced so far. That being said, the Wolf Guard/Royal Court style mechanics were a tad gimmicky. There may be something to weeding them out.
You mean the same mechanism that Eldar Warlocks and IG Commissars have? What's so particularly gimmicky about Wolf Guard that we are not allowed to keep it?
AllSeeingSkink wrote: GW do seem to love making me unhappy though. My SW are hanging on a knife's edge at the moment, if GW screw them up, I think I'll just give the SW away.
I'll have my people call your people if that's the case.
I think at this point with what I'm hearing in the rumours, I'm more annoyed at the prospect of losing the WG squad leaders. If they take away the true grit on GH, it sucks but I can kind of understand it. I'll just drop in and rapid fire and let them come at my CA but taking away the leader of the pack will really irk me because it's one of the bits of fluff I really loved.
Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote: I think at this point with what I'm hearing in the rumours, I'm more annoyed at the prospect of losing the WG squad leaders. If they take away the true grit on GH, it sucks but I can kind of understand it. I'll just drop in and rapid fire and let them come at my CA but taking away the leader of the pack will really irk me because it's one of the bits of fluff I really loved.
The main annoyance if they make the change as rumoured is that it fraks up many of my models that are armed with Bolter/CCW. I'd rather they changed it to not have CA than get rid of Bolter/CCW/Pistol.
Yodhrin wrote: I've just realised, if the rumours about the changes to Wolf Guard Pack Leaders are correct, that's my fluffy Iron Hands list done for since SW were the only cheap way left to get a Terminator Sergeant for a regular squad of Marines. Thanks GW.
GW have said time after time that they don't want to homogenise the Space Marines and just make them virtually the same army with different colour schemes (I can hear every Chaos player on the planet screaming in the background), so when you think about it it really makes sense to remove deployable Wolf Guard Pack Leaders and just make them regular Sergeant upgrades like every other Marine Codex.
Man I really hate those teaser trailers... It´s just a camera sweep on one friggin static picture all the time.. I have no idea why I even bother watching them...
When the Chibi-Hawk first came out I made the bold prediction that the next Marine flyer would be the opposite of that. Rather than having big wings and no fuselage it would have no wings and a bit fuselage. I was mostly right about the Space Guppy... but clearly I was not predicting the future, just the far future because Jesus Christ that thing has tiny wings.
I actually love it. Damned shame it's Wolves only.
Yeah, the transport thing actually highlights the problem with it. As an assault boat, as a breaching weapon, as a direct frontal assault craft it makes sense, the same sense that makes this thing work on a conceptual level. It even has a big gun to breach and then the troops inside jump out the front.
Only that's not it at all.
It has a back hatch for a Razorback's worth of Marines. The purpose of this flying machine is the giant cannon that runs the length of its fuselage. A giant fixed cannon. They've made a Space Wolf A-10 Thunderbolt but forgot to give it wings...
Hmm. Looks Ok, but I can't see anything that makes it particularly wolfy other than the themed gun. I'm intrigued to see their justification for it being only available to the Wolves. It's strange to think that when the SR came out it was promoted as unusual in that it was a Chapter-specific vehicle, and the BA, fluff-wise, had disputes with the Ad Mech over such a fact. Now every Chapter has the SR, and the wolves and DA have their own unique fliers as well. Odd.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, the transport thing actually highlights the problem with it. As an assault boat, as a breaching weapon, as a direct frontal assault craft it makes sense, the same sense that makes this thing work on a conceptual level. It even has a big gun to breach and then the troops inside jump out the front.
Only that's not it at all.
It has a back hatch for a Razorback's worth of Marines. The purpose of this flying machine is the giant cannon that runs the length of its fuselage. A giant fixed cannon. They've made a Space Wolf A-10 Thunderbolt but forgot to give it wings...
Maybe you zap em with the helfrost gun then deploy your troops safely from the back end?
So it seems GW have finally found a way to make plastic SM fliers that don't look completely arse; knock-off versions of far superior Forgeworld designs.
I don't get an immediate "wow I wants it, the preciousss!" reaction, but it doesn't inspire the same kind of visceral disgust brought about by the ChibiHawk or Yo-Dawg-I-Herd-U-Liek-suits so it may grow on me over time.
I hope the actual model is a dual-build; the "gunship" shown above, and a second option with Rhino-esque capacity and a Caestus-like front section.
yeah,
The rumor of a second build 16 man transport makes sense if the ship loses the helfrost canon and becomes an empty hull with a assault ramp at the front.
Yodhrin wrote: So it seems GW have finally found a way to make plastic SM fliers that don't look completely arse; knock-off versions of far superior Forgeworld designs.
I don't get an immediate "wow I wants it, the preciousss!" reaction, but it doesn't inspire the same kind of visceral disgust brought about by the ChibiHawk or Yo-Dawg-I-Herd-U-Liek-suits so it may grow on me over time.
Yeah. The reaction to the Chibi-Hawk was a big "WTF?". This looks like a Marine vehicle. It's a flying brick, their choices (flying gun rather than flying breaching weapon) are stupid, and the wings are pathetically small... but it looks right for the Marines.
TeslaFromage wrote:Btw I love that flyer. I can think of many ways on how I can use it.
Like putting Wolf Guard unit in it and a Rune Priest/maybe a Wolf Lord.
Depends if it has an assault Ramp like Storm Ravens or Land Raiders, and to an extent on the AV. As you're going into Hover mode to disembark, the gunship is at risk, and if you can't assault from it, then 6 SW in the enemy's face aren't going to last long unless you have a ton of threat overload.
Panic wrote:yeah, Just read a awesome Hitchhiker's quote on facebook.
"The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't."
Panic...
1) have an exalt for the quote.
2) I will never look at SM fliers in the same way again....
With the rectangular profile and the rear-mounted swivel engines, this really reminds me a little of the Decepticon fliers in Transformers 3.
Panic wrote: The rumor of a second build 16 man transport makes sense if the ship loses the helfrost canon and becomes an empty hull with a assault ramp at the front.
If true, then it's fething perfect (well, except for the tiny T-Rex wings).
I don't have a whole lot of experience with SM flyers, having never used the Stormraven myself.
But... looking at that flyer almost gives me a headache. How does it fly, much less lift-off? I'm not an aviation buff, I don't actually know gak about how planes work in real life, and I don't expect sci-fi / fantasy flying vehicles to be faithful to realistic flying physics. But god damn, just the sheer... aesthetic of the model, every aspect of its design, fills my mind with a visceral image of the pilot gunning the engines, the back end lifting up and the nose burying itself into the ground.
BlaxicanX wrote: I don't have a whole lot of experience with SM flyers, having never used the Stormraven myself.
But... looking at that flyer almost gives me a headache. How does it fly, much less lift-off? I'm not an aviation buff, I don't actually know gak about how planes work in real life, and I don't expect sci-fi / fantasy flying vehicles to be faithful to realistic flying physics. But god damn, just the sheer... aesthetic of the model, every aspect of its design, fills my mind with a visceral image of the pilot gunning the engines, the back end lifting up and the nose burying itself into the ground.
It's just... so incredibly back-heavy.
In the same way Land Speeders, Hammerheads, Falcons and Raiders do. With a bit more oomph, although Falcons can actually fly on high altitudes..
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Am I seeing the same flier as everyone else who thinks it looks good because to me it looks like an ugly as all hell brick?
People have different aesthetic tastes? Stop the press!
Trying to figure out how this is supposed to be an assault transport, the only thing I can think of is that the Space Wolves ride standing on top of it allowing them to treat it as an open-topped transport without it actually being open-topped.
If it weren't for the forward mounted gun and the position of the cockpit, I'd say you could actually have a pretty slick (and cunning) B-Wing fighter thing going on there, where the "nose" actually dips down when the thrusters kick up and it kind of just "hangs" in the air, in a T-shape.
Even that wouldn't make much sense, but, the nose is just so damn long that it bugs me that it can somehow fly up and forward looking like that.
But anyway... enough complaining about that. Let's see some official rules leaks!
BlaxicanX wrote: If it weren't for the forward mounted gun and the position of the cockpit, I'd say you could actually have a pretty slick (and cunning) B-Wing fighter thing going on there, where the "nose" actually dips down when the thrusters kick up and it kind of just "hangs" in the air, in a T-shape.
I can go one better. Spin it upright, engines perpendicular to the body, cockpit somehow reversed, guns removed. Mount swivel guns to the lower end, extra engines on the back. Slave 1 is go!
Love it, I think it's the angle making the wings look so small. Anyway, looks like it was designed to work in space a la Caestus Assault Ram so large wings aren't necessary. Great sculpt imo.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Am I seeing the same flier as everyone else who thinks it looks good because to me it looks like an ugly as all hell brick?
People have different aesthetic tastes? Stop the press!
Well of course. I'm not surprised there are people who like it, I'm surprised at the number of people who like it. Upon seeing the pictures I was expecting more like 90% "that thing is ugly" and 10% "I want it to have my babies", not the other way around.
So the engineer in me is having a bit of trouble with it due to the aforementioned wings. I'll have to assume it has anti-grav dongles all over it for lift purposes, and that the wings are just for maneuvering (slowly).
Still, I expected worse. I hoped for better, but I expected worse. I'd like to see the other version.
And I then assume that the Stormfang is the only release this week???
As a SW player, I'm happy we finally got a flyer and it has some nice weaponry. I'm not happy that it's the ugliest fething thing I've ever seen. It's a flying brick with tiny wings that would crash nose first the instant it went onto a planet with an atmosphere. I always thought the caestus assault ram was ugly, so they chopped it in half and put even smaller wings on it? I think I'm going to buy the storm eagle which looks similar but manages to look about 100 times better.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Am I seeing the same flier as everyone else who thinks it looks good because to me it looks like an ugly as all hell brick?
People have different aesthetic tastes? Stop the press!
Well of course. I'm not surprised there are people who like it, I'm surprised at the number of people who like it. Upon seeing the pictures I was expecting more like 90% "that thing is ugly" and 10% "I want it to have my babies", not the other way around.
To be fair, there's a lot less than 90% "have my babies", a lot of it is more "well, at least it's not a kick in the nuts".
Variant looks a lot better. I still prefer the looks of the Ceastus and Storm Eagle, but that at least looks ok, if you think of it as a mid-altitude skimmer rather than a low-altitude flier. The jets are used for manoeuvring, the grav-plates keep it airborne. (not official, just my thoughts, to clarify).
I still don't see anything other than the iconography that would preclude other chapters from having it. Unless the SW designed and built this themselves on Fenris, which seems unlikely, why is the STC not shared around?
So Dark Angels get Stasis weapons and Rift cannon. Space Wolves get Ice guns and...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Paradigm wrote: Variant looks a lot better. I still prefer the looks of the Ceastus and Storm Eagle, but that at least looks ok, if you think of it as a mid-altitude skimmer rather than a low-altitude flier. The jets are used for manoeuvring, the grav-plates keep it airborne. (not official, just my thoughts, to clarify).
I still don't see anything other than the iconography that would preclude other chapters from having it. Unless the SW designed and built this themselves on Fenris, which seems unlikely, why is the STC not shared around?
Maybe they're douches like the Dark Angels and keep the fun stuff to themselves?
angelofvengeance wrote: So Dark Angels get Stasis weapons and Rift cannon. Space Wolves get Ice guns and...
Looking at the pics, more missiles than you can shake a wolf at. Seriously, these things are packing some serious firepower, even the transport version. The Stormraven may end up jealous...
Where are these grav-plates you guys are seeing? Are they the little fins near the front of the nose, or are you referring to the grey bars running underside it?
EDIT- Also, good catch to the gentlemen who brought up the Slave-1. That's a much better representation of what I was trying to say.
Paradigm wrote: Variant looks a lot better. I still prefer the looks of the Ceastus and Storm Eagle, but that at least looks ok, if you think of it as a mid-altitude skimmer rather than a low-altitude flier. The jets are used for manoeuvring, the grav-plates keep it airborne. (not official, just my thoughts, to clarify).
I still don't see anything other than the iconography that would preclude other chapters from having it. Unless the SW designed and built this themselves on Fenris, which seems unlikely, why is the STC not shared around?
Maybe they're douches like the Dark Angels and keep the fun stuff to themselves?
But Fenris doesn't strike me as the kind of world where they could produce such a vehicle, especially in any significant number. It seems to me they'd have to farm out the production to a Forge World, and then it would be out of their hands.
BlaxicanX wrote: I don't have a whole lot of experience with SM flyers, having never used the Stormraven myself.
But... looking at that flyer almost gives me a headache. How does it fly, much less lift-off? I'm not an aviation buff, I don't actually know gak about how planes work in real life, and I don't expect sci-fi / fantasy flying vehicles to be faithful to realistic flying physics. But god damn, just the sheer... aesthetic of the model, every aspect of its design, fills my mind with a visceral image of the pilot gunning the engines, the back end lifting up and the nose burying itself into the ground.
It's just... so incredibly back-heavy.
Anti-grav?
Really that's the only way any Imperial fliers get off the ground.
So looking at the weapons load out on the gunship a few issues I think.
1) The Hell Frost Destructor being at the very front of the craft on a hull mounting means there will be a very large blind spot just in front of the vehicle.
2) The Stormstrike Missiles/Las Cannons will be positioned such that they can't fire down, period. They are more or les flush with the top of the model.
3) On the plus side, the placement of the Heavy Bolter/Multi-Melta/Missile Launchers well back will allow them to cover some of that blind spot at the front, but limits the effective range of the Multi-meltas.
I don't know how I feel about it yet but I'm gonna try and stop in my flgs to take a look at it if I can.
I'm gutted about the changes to GH and WG. Can someone mathhammer and let me know if fifteen BC at their regular ws/bs is worth taking over ten GH? I'm gonna have to sit down and figure out what's what since now models HAVE to be wysiwyg.
Oh well, maybe we can at least get the Hellfrost weapons as a special troop choice like someone was hoping for earlier, that'd be pretty cool. (fingers are still extra crossed that they become Vlka Fenryka as their new codex name)
Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote: I don't know how I feel about it yet but I'm gonna try and stop in my flgs to take a look at it if I can.
I'm gutted about the changes to GH and WG. Can someone mathhammer and let me know if fifteen BC at their regular ws/bs is worth taking over ten GH? I'm gonna have to sit down and figure out what's what since now models HAVE to be wysiwyg.
Oh well, maybe we can at least get the Hellfrost weapons as a special troop choice like someone was hoping for earlier, that'd be pretty cool. (fingers are still extra crossed that they become Vlka Fenryka as their new codex name)
Edit: What does a lance weapon do again?
Lance treats AV13 and 14 as AV12 for the purposes of penetration rolls.
Not bad, not bad at all. GW should peek ove the fence at what FW are doing more often, not that I care that much, having migrated into the Heresy side of things and only buy FW-models. (yes, my wallet weeps)
Well, beside giving it a huge gun and a minimal troop-capacity that is.
They should have sized the moment and made a proper assault-ship like the mini-caestus it resembles. EDIT: And they did, should have guessed, hope the rules make it worthwile and not just another gunboat.
After all, as it is now, you really don't want to go hovering and let stuff assault from your Stormraven/Eagle/whatevs. Sure, the new Jink rule helps with a 4+ but.. only that far.
The Caestus however is perfect, toting AV13, 5++ to the front and Armoured Ceramite (aka. Two dice for armorpenetration? dream on son!) And also the fact that it can Ram (because of having the Tank type), it also rams like a flying brick does, can't ram at less strenght than 10, adds +1 to the damagechart and rolls two dice for penetrating armor.
Then there's probably 10 assault terminators or so inside, popping out with the assault vehicle rule, and counts as having assault grenades from the Caestus' frag launchers.
I'm gutted about the changes to GH and WG. Can someone mathhammer and let me know if fifteen BC at their regular ws/bs is worth taking over ten GH? I'm gonna have to sit down and figure out what's what since now models HAVE to be wysiwyg.
Don't do anything drastic like changing models yet! These are just rumours at the moment, and pretty sketchy ones at best, so wait until we have the codex before panicking. I still think/hope it'll be an upgrade or swap, as per CSM.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Am I seeing the same flier as everyone else who thinks it looks good because to me it looks like an ugly as all hell brick?
Yeah when I saw it I was expecting a bit of a GW bashing. It's the Storm Talon part which really ruins it for me, it just looks like they took two models and jammed together without trying to blend them together.
Paradigm wrote: I still don't see anything other than the iconography that would preclude other chapters from having it. Unless the SW designed and built this themselves on Fenris, which seems unlikely, why is the STC not shared around?
You can mix and match all imperial stuff now in the core rules, remember? Enjoy your Stormwolf full of Death Company and Storm Raven full of Deathwing escorted by Vendettas.
Paradigm wrote: I still don't see anything other than the iconography that would preclude other chapters from having it. Unless the SW designed and built this themselves on Fenris, which seems unlikely, why is the STC not shared around?
You can mix and match all imperial stuff now in the core rules, remember? Enjoy your Stormwolf full of Death Company and Storm Raven full of Deathwing escorted by Vendettas.
I know, but I was more looking for the fluff reason.
As the post count indicates, I'm new to rumormongering, as is my source. Releasing things a bit at a time was what they wanted. Since everybody is hungry for details and 'credibility' though, I pressed them to give me everything they've got. Here it is:
Stormwolf - Fast Attack - Points = Land Raider minus 35
BS4 - F12 S12 R12 HP3 - Vehicle (Flyer, Hover, Transport)
Wargear:
Twin-linked helfrost cannon
Twin-linked lascannon
Two twin-linked heavy bolters - May be replaced with a Skyhammer launcher for free, or two twin-linked multi-meltas for 20pts
Ceramite Plating
Special Rules:
Assault Vehicle
Power of the Machine Spirit
Transport:
Transport Capacity - sixteen models
Fire Points - none
Access Points - One ramp at the front of the hull
Stormfang Gunship - Heavy Support - Points = Land Raider minus 30
BS4 - F12 S12 R12 HP3 - Vehicle (Flyer, Hover Transport)
Wargear:
Helfrost destructor
Two twin-linked heavy bolters - May be replaced with a Skyhammer launcher for free, or two twin-linked multi-meltas for 20 pts
Two Stormstrike missiles - May be replaced with a twin-linked lascannon for 15 pts
Ceramite Plating
Special Rules:
Power of the Machine Spirit
Transport:
Transport Capacity - six models
Fire Points - none
Access Points - One at rear of the hull
Helfrost cannon
dispersed - R24" S6 AP3 Heavy 1, Helfrost, Blast
focussed - R24" S8 AP1 Heavy 1, Helfrost
Helfrost destructor
dispersed - R24" S6 AP3 Heavy 1, Helfrost, Large Blast
focussed - R24" S8 AP1 Heavy 1, Helfrost, Lance
Helfrost - If a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds from this weapon, it must pass a separate Strength test for each wound suffered or be removed from play
Just a thought. With Helfrost being S-test or die, might this be a new guise of JOTWW, a Helfrost Beam Witchfire? This is assuming, of course, we get our own powers, which we should.
Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote: I don't know how I feel about it yet but I'm gonna try and stop in my flgs to take a look at it if I can.
I'm gutted about the changes to GH and WG. Can someone mathhammer and let me know if fifteen BC at their regular ws/bs is worth taking over ten GH? I'm gonna have to sit down and figure out what's what since now models HAVE to be wysiwyg.
Oh well, maybe we can at least get the Hellfrost weapons as a special troop choice like someone was hoping for earlier, that'd be pretty cool. (fingers are still extra crossed that they become Vlka Fenryka as their new codex name)
Edit: What does a lance weapon do again?
Lance treats AV13 and 14 as AV12 for the purposes of penetration rolls.
I'm gutted about the changes to GH and WG. Can someone mathhammer and let me know if fifteen BC at their regular ws/bs is worth taking over ten GH? I'm gonna have to sit down and figure out what's what since now models HAVE to be wysiwyg.
Don't do anything drastic like changing models yet! These are just rumours at the moment, and pretty sketchy ones at best, so wait until we have the codex before panicking. I still think/hope it'll be an upgrade or swap, as per CSM.
No of course not but my hopes aren't good. Like I said, I'll see how BC get and worst comes to worst I can just start fielding them as well.
As the post count indicates, I'm new to rumormongering, as is my source. Releasing things a bit at a time was what they wanted. Since everybody is hungry for details and 'credibility' though, I pressed them to give me everything they've got. Here it is:
Stormwolf - Fast Attack - Points = Land Raider minus 35
BS4 - F12 S12 R12 HP3 - Vehicle (Flyer, Hover, Transport)
Wargear:
Twin-linked helfrost cannon
Twin-linked lascannon
Two twin-linked heavy bolters - May be replaced with a Skyhammer launcher for free, or two twin-linked multi-meltas for 20pts
Ceramite Plating
Special Rules:
Assault Vehicle
Power of the Machine Spirit
Transport:
Transport Capacity - sixteen models
Fire Points - none
Access Points - One ramp at the front of the hull
Stormfang Gunship - Heavy Support - Points = Land Raider minus 30
BS4 - F12 S12 R12 HP3 - Vehicle (Flyer, Hover Transport)
Wargear:
Helfrost destructor
Two twin-linked heavy bolters - May be replaced with a Skyhammer launcher for free, or two twin-linked multi-meltas for 20 pts
Two Stormstrike missiles - May be replaced with a twin-linked lascannon for 15 pts
Ceramite Plating
Special Rules:
Power of the Machine Spirit
Transport:
Transport Capacity - six models
Fire Points - none
Access Points - One at rear of the hull
Helfrost cannon
dispersed - R24" S6 AP3 Heavy 1, Helfrost, Blast
focussed - R24" S8 AP1 Heavy 1, Helfrost
Helfrost destructor
dispersed - R24" S6 AP3 Heavy 1, Helfrost, Large Blast
focussed - R24" S8 AP1 Heavy 1, Helfrost, Lance
Helfrost - If a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds from this weapon, it must pass a separate Strength test for each wound suffered or be removed from play
I can see myself using the Stormwolf more than the Stormfang, piling sixteen dudes ( BC's or GH's ) with attached HQ's will be the way i go.
Certain SM vehicles have had that look for a while. It's the trim on the bottom of this and the Land Speeders that have always made them look like the classic Adidas shell toes to me.
I'm in the "don't like it" camp. But if I ever change my mind I can always convert my own by gluing spare SM parts to a house brick.
The HQs might be good. It'd be nice if they started doing proper multipart (i.e. not monopose) generals a la SM Commander.
I expect the infantry kits will be like the other recent ones: really well made, huge amounts of options, but crazy expensive (at least £5 per model, probably 5 in a box).
Funny story, I saw Kid_Kyoto's fake rumors thread in 40k General earlier where he posted the White Dwarf cover, calling it a bad photoshop job, and thought "Thank god, I thought that was real for a second."
Eternal Warrior protects against wounds which cause Instant Death, Helfrost doesn't cause Instant Death, it just removes from play.
You didn't really expect them to lose JotWW, did you?
Christ's sake. I'm not looking forward to playing against that thing with my hive fleet...
...God damn instant death!!!!
S5+ models have a 1 in 6 chance of failing the strength test and these weapons are all heavy 1 of some description, so it's kinda mitigated against big/strong things. Units with S4 and lower and T4 with multiple wounds seem to be the main target for this weapon. T3 will insta-die anyway due to double strength and struggling to think of T3 models with Eternal Warrior (Yarrick?).
Still a 1 in 6 chance to outright kill a giant creature by causing one wound, whether or not it has Eternal Warrior, is bad game design, I think. Should have just given it the Instant Death rule upon a failed strength test.
Eternal Warrior protects against wounds which cause Instant Death, Helfrost doesn't cause Instant Death, it just removes from play.
You didn't really expect them to lose JotWW, did you?
Christ's sake. I'm not looking forward to playing against that thing with my hive fleet...
...God damn instant death!!!!
S5+ models have a 1 in 6 chance of failing the strength test and these weapons are all heavy 1 of some description, so it's kinda mitigated against big/strong things. Units with S4 and lower and T4 with multiple wounds seem to be the main target for this weapon. T3 will insta-die anyway due to double strength and struggling to think of T3 models with Eternal Warrior (Yarrick?).
Still a 1 in 6 chance to outright kill a giant creature by causing one wound, whether or not it has Eternal Warrior, is bad game design, I think. Should have just given it the Instant Death rule upon a failed strength test.
That doesn't sound fun at all. It shouldn't have skyfire with that gun should it?
Not a big fan of the design, it's just a shoe-box with engines stuck on it, even the orks have heard of rounded designs or is it because apple owns rounded corners?
His Master's Voice wrote: This happens to be the most SM looking flier ever made by GW proper and people are complaining. Kinda funny.
I'm not sure what makes it "the most SM looking flier ever", to me it just looks ugly as hell. FWIW, I also think the other SM fliers are ugly as hell, just in a different way. The only half decent ones are the Stormeagle and Thunderhawk.
His Master's Voice wrote: This happens to be the most SM looking flier ever made by GW proper and people are complaining. Kinda funny.
I'm not sure what makes it "the most SM looking flier ever", to me it just looks ugly as hell. FWIW, I also think the other SM fliers are ugly as hell, just in a different way. The only half decent ones are the Stormeagle and Thunderhawk.
This is literally the exact same design pattern the Hawk and Eagle have.
They all have the same aerodynamic functionality too.
Consistency, yo. Angled plates and curves have no place in SM vehicle, unless they're heresy era.
His Master's Voice wrote: This happens to be the most SM looking flier ever made by GW proper and people are complaining. Kinda funny.
I'm not I really do love it. At first I wasn't really sold on the gun ship version, but the amount of mobile S8 AP1 weaponry on that bad boy is amazing! Melta/Lance to boot!
I think the models looks pretty great.. Are the problems with the model that it is *too* imperium like? Boxy and outrageous are pretty much what you signed up for when you play an imperium army..
kenneydee wrote: I thought SW didn't believe in flyers and all that jazz. I remember there was some reason behind their terminators not deep striking.
I think the 4th edition codex made some mention about fearing Teleporter technology (which they had used repeatedly prior to that codex). It also gaves us the "space wolves don't like jump packs and prefer to fight with feet on the ground" nonsense. Glad to see both may be going by the wayside.
An interesting thought regarding pricing: will it be cheaper to buy two of these to kitbash a Caestus, or cheaper to buy one Caestus to kitbash into two of these?
I really like the transport version. Not terribly convinced by the gunship version.
Sadly it looks like this will be only for Wolves as the details appear to be sculpted on to major pieces rather than being attached to the chasis as optional bits. I hope I'm wrong and they have allowed for a more "plain" variant.
Tannhauser42 wrote: An interesting thought regarding pricing: will it be cheaper to buy two of these to kitbash a Caestus, or cheaper to buy one Caestus to kitbash into two of these?
Tannhauser42 wrote: An interesting thought regarding pricing: will it be cheaper to buy two of these to kitbash a Caestus, or cheaper to buy one Caestus to kitbash into two of these?
I'd go for the second one, though just about.
Nope, 2xStormwolf = 1x Caastus at retail. Factor in shipping and discounts, the Stormwolfves come scheaper. Not to mention time and bits invested to convert the Caestus.
Medium of Death wrote: I really like the transport version. Not terribly convinced by the gunship version.
I wasn't either until I tried to think of decent anti-armor options for Space Wolves.
Krak Fangs aren't as great as they used to be with the new damage table. They can still glance things to death, sure, but AV13/14 gets rough.
Power Fists are pretty plentiful, and AP2, but they require melee range.
The gun ship has an AV12 all around hull that ignores Melta. It's a flyer, so it can Jink if needed. It can be fitted to rock:
That's 2x TL S8 AP 1 melta, 1x TL S9 AP2 and 1x S8 AP1 Lance, Hellfrost. Not much is going to survive that. Does a good job against MCs, and once in a blue moon might even take down a Transcendant C'Tan!
A Town Called Malus wrote: Eternal Warrior protects against wounds which cause Instant Death, Helfrost doesn't cause Instant Death, it just removes from play.
Welcome to 3rd Ed 40K, where even the exceptions have exceptions!
Kosake wrote: The new flyer... is a brick. Did anyone actually modell that thing? Looks like they took a brick, glued on some spare bits and called it a day.
Kosake wrote: Looks like they took a brick, glued on some spare bits and called it a day.
It looks like they looked at a couple other things from 40K and based its form on that, which is more than they ever did for the Chibi-Hawk.
Good gawd, if we keep ending up on the same side, the board may explode.
You beat me to it. I think it is an established shape and looks great for boarding actions. Also, I noticed that the rumors have been spelling Hel with one L. That makes me so happy.
Sidstyler wrote: Funny story, I saw Kid_Kyoto's fake rumors thread in 40k General earlier where he posted the White Dwarf cover, calling it a bad photoshop job, and thought "Thank god, I thought that was real for a second."
His Master's Voice wrote: This happens to be the most SM looking flier ever made by GW proper and people are complaining. Kinda funny.
I'm not sure what makes it "the most SM looking flier ever", to me it just looks ugly as hell. FWIW, I also think the other SM fliers are ugly as hell, just in a different way. The only half decent ones are the Stormeagle and Thunderhawk.
This is literally the exact same design pattern the Hawk and Eagle have.
They all have the same aerodynamic functionality too.
Consistency, yo. Angled plates and curves have no place in SM vehicle, unless they're heresy era.
It's the same design pattern in the sense it's angled, but there's more to looking good than having angles vs curves. Hell, my favourite 40k fliers are the Marauder and the Thunderbolt, they don't have any curves at all.
FWIW, I don't like the FW Assault Ram as a flier either (looks ok as a space based assault ram, but it looks silly as an atmospheric flier to me).
So what does make this "the most SM looking flier ever" anyway?
New pics convince me a little more. Still no way I'll be getting one, but I think it looks pretty cool in a sort of flying-brick-with-immense-firepower sort of way.
'Ancient Warriors of Fenris'? Possible SW Dread kit, or jumping to conclusions?
Kosake wrote: The new flyer... is a brick. Did anyone actually modell that thing? Looks like they took a brick, glued on some spare bits and called it a day.
Helfrost - If a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds from this weapon, it must pass a separate Strength test for each wound suffered or be removed from play
New weapon?
Crazy new mechanic?
The only thing that could make it better (by which I mean stupider) would be a d100 table!
76-81 Left arm/limb frozen, model may not use any weapon or equipment held in that hand
82-84 Right leg/limb frozen, movement is halved, model must pass both a strength check and a toughness check to free himself. If the model fails the toughness check then he has succeeded in breaking off the frozen leg and immediately takes one wound with no save possible. Alternately a model with a flamer may use it to free himself but must roll to wound himself with the flamer, normal armour saves apply.
85-87 Left leg/limb frozen...
Kosake wrote: Looks like they took a brick, glued on some spare bits and called it a day.
It looks like they looked at a couple other things from 40K and based its form on that, which is more than they ever did for the Chibi-Hawk.
I know about the Caestus. That twin-door design is also quite blocky but shows a bit of work put into the desing process and is decent enough. The Flywolf here is really just a block with a couple of missile racks taped on.
Kosake wrote: The new flyer... is a brick. Did anyone actually modell that thing? Looks like they took a brick, glued on some spare bits and called it a day.
Just like the F-4 Phantom?
Important difference the one of the spare bits added to the phantom was wings.
Still it is faintly reminiscent of the old ford transit Thunderhawks.
Kosake wrote: The new flyer... is a brick. Did anyone actually modell that thing? Looks like they took a brick, glued on some spare bits and called it a day.
Just like the F-4 Phantom?
Important difference the one of the spare bits added to the phantom was wings.
Still it is faintly reminiscent of the old ford transit Thunderhawks.
True, but they did not need them sometimes.
I like the story a crew F-4 chief friend of mine told me about a F-4 landing with only 6"of one wing left.
To me the new flier reminds of an old F-4 joke:
MD Exec: No you can't make a Brick fly!
MD Designer: I bet you we can!
BrookM had it as €64 - I'm pretty sure that would make it less than GBP 65?
Also: wow. just, wow. Completely stopped playing 40k for a long while now, yet I might have to get more than one of these. This really is what a space marine flier ought to look like. Sure, there's always something that could be done better, but this thing really is seven shades of awesome.
This is the best thing they have done since the knight... its not flawless but it is way above my expectations. I'm tempted to run a couple beside a caustus for my Pre heresy EC. Good times.
I love my Caestus, this doesn't look as good at all, think I will get another Caestus and use that with the new rules instead, I don't play anybody who would complain.
I think I can manage the skull molded on since I play Iron Warriors and I could just paint it gold. I'm less sure about the work involved in removing stuff from the ramps and the sides of the flyer. I can't wait to see the sprues!!!!!!
I don't know what to call this thing. Assault ram wannabe? Flying Shoebox? Looks rather phallic, especially with its frost cannon. I think the best description is a flying brick. If I had one I'd call it "Cynderblok". Sounds nice and space-wolfy.
For what it's worth I don't think it is to bad, looks slightly to tall in my opinion as a transport but that's about it. It actually looks like a SM flier, big, brutish and unable to fly. As many have said it looks like FW Caestes Assault ram. We shall just have to wait a see how it performs although it might just be a giant fire magnet.
Edit: The wolf skull on the front looks moulded to the plate, seeing as there is no obvious teeth or even sockets for the teeth to go into, blends straight into the armour
The flying shoe is problematic. Not just the lack of viable flight that it shares with its cousins, the fact that a lot of the weaponry is top mounted and can barely see ground targets. That's a problem.
That makes me wonder if the plastic Iron Priest kit is also real now. Since they have the helmet design etc.
Just looks like the normal SM pilot to me.
It has this type of helmet
It would make sense, tech marines fly the regular SM craft so some form of Iron Wolf would make sense, although at the same time putting a blood claw in charge might also be laugh
His Master's Voice wrote: Holy Emperor, Gw actually made a good looking SM flier. I mean, when I read the thread title, I fully expected another disaster.
Talk about positive disappointment.
I love the design of the DA fliers and would've bought two had the rules not been utter crap.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: So what does make this "the most SM looking flier ever" anyway?
Take a Thunderhawk. Look at it. Then look at this model. If you can't see the startling similarity, no words will make a difference.
The Stormraven takes more design cues than this does, so I'm not seeing how this thing is thing is more of a SM flier than the Stormraven is.
This thing just looks like a brick with a Stormtalon cockpit and 4 Stormtalon engines glued on to it. You said "This happens to be the most SM looking flier ever made by GW proper", I'm wondering why this thing is more SM looking than the Stormraven or Stormtalon.
And even if it does take some look design cues from the Thunderhawk, still doesn't make it look good. Other than being an angular design it doesn't take a lot of design cues from the Thunderhawk anyway. It doesn't have the characteristic nose design (which the Stormraven does), it does have low aspect ratio wings but not the characteristic Thunderhawk style ones. It does have the same characterisic SM segmented vehicle armour on it's muzzle section and straight lined angular design, but it doesn't scream "most SM looking flier ever made by GW proper" nor does it scream "that's totally good looking" either.
Toastaster wrote: How can the pilot see where he's meant to be landing troops on that flying shipping container...
Well since Space Marine helmets don't actually have vision slits, and it's just a HUD inside it, I would assume they link into the ship and can probably see everything around it.
Assuming of course they haven't retconned the helmet thing again.
Toastaster wrote: How can the pilot see where he's meant to be landing troops on that flying shipping container...
Well since Space Marine helmets don't actually have vision slits, and it's just a HUD inside it, I would assume they link into the ship and can probably see everything around it.
Assuming of course they haven't retconned the helmet thing again.
Aw, I was kind of hoping he just flew towards the ground until he heard a THUNK and then just opens the doors.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: So what does make this "the most SM looking flier ever" anyway?
Take a Thunderhawk. Look at it. Then look at this model. If you can't see the startling similarity, no words will make a difference.
The Stormraven takes more design cues than this does, so I'm not seeing how this thing is thing is more of a SM flier than the Stormraven is.
This thing just looks like a brick with a Stormtalon cockpit and 4 Stormtalon engines glued on to it. You said "This happens to be the most SM looking flier ever made by GW proper", I'm wondering why this thing is more SM looking than the Stormraven or Stormtalon.
And even if it does take some look design cues from the Thunderhawk, still doesn't make it look good. Other than being an angular design it doesn't take a lot of design cues from the Thunderhawk anyway. It doesn't have the characteristic nose design (which the Stormraven does), it does have low aspect ratio wings but not the characteristic Thunderhawk style ones. It does have the same characterisic SM segmented vehicle armour on it's muzzle section and straight lined angular design, but it doesn't scream "most SM looking flier ever made by GW proper" nor does it scream "that's totally good looking" either.
As has been said, Beauty is in the eye................
The most recent SM flyers - with the exception of the Storm Eagle looked to me like crappy toys - squashed and horrible looking toys and looked like nothing else the Sm fielded
This draws design elements from what I feel is the SM (and to a large degree Imperial) aeasthtic - hard lines, brute strength and directness. The Stormtalon and its god awful Brethrin just don't for me - it looks like the Land Raider and the Thunderhawk.
Can't find a better description =P
Could come to love it, you know like how men love shoes...
When the third edition plastic Land Speeder came out, one of my friends said it looked like a flying trainer, so I guess both are following the same design aesthetic. I think this is dope and will be getting one for my Wolves.
If the Ceastus looks like Falcor this ugly POS looks like a Daschund. MosDef not a wolf. It's the flying wiener dog head of doom!! Maybe it will go away if we give it a biscuit. Who is writing up the wiener hammer list right now? Worst designed flyer yet.
Mr Morden wrote: As has been said, Beauty is in the eye................
And as I said earlier, I'm just surprised at the number of people that like the look of it, lol. Though in the end, I think it looks fine... as a space ship to space ship assault ram. It doesn't look remotely like something that should be flying in the atmosphere. Not only because it (like all Imperial flyers) would not physically be able to fly, but also simply because it does not look designed for the task of supporting ground troops. It looks like something you "fire" at an opposing ship in space.
The most recent SM flyers - with the exception of the Storm Eagle looked to me like crappy toys - squashed and horrible looking toys and looked like nothing else the Sm fielded
I agree entirely. I hate the Stormraven/talon. I just don't particularly like the flying brick either, lol.
Do we have any new rules in the book besides the flier?
Anything else mentioned like when the Codex arrives?
The Ork release schedule was....different from GW's past pattern, and if we assume the SW follow the same pattern......
I think the Gork/Morkanought was late May in a WD wasn't it?
Followed a week or 2 later by flash gits
Then Mega nobz/characters?
Then the codex.
That took something like 5-6 weeks anyways. I know it was a long stretch, because the ork rumor thread was, hilariously large, and I just didn't care by page 100 or so.
If the new flyer goes up for pre-order this weekend/August 2, I would not expect the codex under August 30/Sept 6, with dribs and drabs of rules for the new kits spilling out in the white dwarf every week.
GW haven't been consistent with their release times lately and given they've mostly locked down the rumours now, we'll know when the codex is coming out the week before the release of the white dwarf that shows the new codex (approximately when retailers get it and start posting pics).
I actually really like this model, as I think the caestus ram is a great looking ship. Not such a fan of the Stormfang variant as i feel it is more akin to an assault boat than a flyer due to the lack of wings.
I will certainly be picking one up for my new SW army. I *may* try and elongate the rear wings a little bit and if I'm feeling VERY frisky I'll try and replace the bottom engines with something a bit bigger.
I really get the sense that this thing is meant for boarding actions first, and as such is mostly a void craft with atmospheric capability. Anytime something like this pops up my mind just yells "Anti-Grav!" and I get on with my life.
Helfrost - If a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds from this weapon, it must pass a separate Strength test for each wound suffered or be removed from play
Does anyone else here read this rule and see how easy it can be abused? The way I am interpreting the rule, which is probably NOT RAI, but could absolutely be interpreted in RAW that after a model is hit with an unsaved wound from a helfrost weapon, not only must it make a strength test for the helfrost weapon its self, but for every consecutive wound "suffered" (which could be interpreted as unsaved) from any weapon.
This is what I mean to say in an example-
Hit Unit A with Helfrost weapon
Unit A suffers unsaved wound, passes strength test
Proceed to pepper Unit A with Lasguns, Bolters, etc
Unit A must now pass more strength tests or be removed from since it is now suffering wounds.
Am I absolutely stupid? Or is anyone else seeing this? I could definitely be stupid.
Silverthorne wrote: Wow. I love it. Sharp looking model. I hope it's not wolves only. First non forge world space marine aircraft I've liked. Great job GW.
Err very definitely appears to be SW only club model. Wolfy bits, frosty bits and rune bits galore.
Helfrost - If a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds from this weapon, it must pass a separate Strength test for each wound suffered or be removed from play
Does anyone else here read this rule and see how easy it can be abused? The way I am interpreting the rule, which is probably NOT RAI, but could absolutely be interpreted in RAW that after a model is hit with an unsaved wound from a helfrost weapon, not only must it make a strength test for the helfrost weapon its self, but for every consecutive wound "suffered" (which could be interpreted as unsaved) from any weapon.
This is what I mean to say in an example-
Hit Unit A with Helfrost weapon
Unit A suffers unsaved wound, passes strength test
Proceed to pepper Unit A with Lasguns, Bolters, etc
Unit A must now pass more strength tests or be removed from since it is now suffering wounds.
Am I absolutely stupid? Or is anyone else seeing this? I could definitely be stupid.
It's applicable on a model by model basis. If a single model suffers a wound not a unit. So it's only really good for multi-wound models such as characters, monstrous creatures, etc.
Also, in 7th you completely resolve one type of weapon (to hit, to wound, armor save, special effects) before moving onto another type of weapon; rinse and repeat until all models and/or weapon types in the shooting unit have fired. So this alone would mitigate such shenanigans.
Helfrost - If a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds from this weapon, it must pass a separate Strength test for each wound suffered or be removed from play
Does anyone else here read this rule and see how easy it can be abused? The way I am interpreting the rule, which is probably NOT RAI, but could absolutely be interpreted in RAW that after a model is hit with an unsaved wound from a helfrost weapon, not only must it make a strength test for the helfrost weapon its self, but for every consecutive wound "suffered" (which could be interpreted as unsaved) from any weapon.
This is what I mean to say in an example-
Hit Unit A with Helfrost weapon
Unit A suffers unsaved wound, passes strength test
Proceed to pepper Unit A with Lasguns, Bolters, etc
Unit A must now pass more strength tests or be removed from since it is now suffering wounds.
Am I absolutely stupid? Or is anyone else seeing this? I could definitely be stupid.
No i dont interpret it that way at all. Just really good vs multiwound items.
Automatically Appended Next Post: However seeing what else in the codex gets the same type of rule may be interesting...
I like it. I don't have a wolf army. I bought the storm claw set and thought about converting the space wolves into chaos space marines. Now, I kinda want to start my space wolves allies. I guess I will save the models for the future when I decide to have my Stark marines
I love the caestus, and enjoy that they have another model (loosely) based on it, but also think they completely missed the point when they gave it a regular cockpit and a back ramp.
Skeptical, but vaguely optimistic.
edit: wait, so, there's also a front-transport version? If so, I think I'll be using these as proxies for stormravens, since I hate the look of those.
Yes but other than Apoc and Forgeworld, what have GW ever done for us?
It's actually growing on me a lot quicker than I thought it would, although I don't think I could field it as-is. I edited the WD scan with some colour-coded notes;
They amount to "make it look more like a monohulled Caestus". It'll still take a fair amount of work to bring it up to par for my personal tastes, but at least most of it is superficial exterior work rather than the almost total rebuilds required to make the other plastic SM fliers even remotely appealing.
Fayric wrote: Love the flying wolf buss!
It even got us to stop moaning (howling) about a presumed GH/WG nerf. Nice job GW!
Oh don't worry, I haven't forgotten. G-dubs are far from proving to me that I actually want to continue my SW in to 7th edition.
I dont think the codex will se many boosts. Most likely TWC will be more like normal cavalry but drop slightly in points, and long fangs just get split fire rule. Still no ~apothecary rules and no iron clad.
Hopefully they get some special rule for dreadnoughts, like the contemptors sagas.
spiralingcadaver wrote: I love the caestus, and enjoy that they have another model (loosely) based on it, but also think they completely missed the point when they gave it a regular cockpit and a back ramp.
Skeptical, but vaguely optimistic.
edit: wait, so, there's also a front-transport version? If so, I think I'll be using these as proxies for stormravens, since I hate the look of those.
I think I may actually do an armored cockpit for the assault version. Shouldn't be too hard with a little plasticard.
Fayric wrote: Love the flying wolf buss!
It even got us to stop moaning (howling) about a presumed GH/WG nerf. Nice job GW!
Oh don't worry, I haven't forgotten. G-dubs are far from proving to me that I actually want to continue my SW in to 7th edition.
I dont think the codex will se many boosts. Most likely TWC will be more like normal cavalry but drop slightly in points, and long fangs just get split fire rule. Still no ~apothecary rules and no iron clad.
Hopefully they get some special rule for dreadnoughts, like the contemptors sagas.
I'm not really worried about not getting boosts, I'm worried about needless nerfs, imbalance, loss of character and invalidating models.
Ilmarinen wrote: Add Storm Raven wings and engines! I reckon that'll make a world of difference.
And there are even options for where to mount them - either back up high (next to the cockpit) or along the front hull - either could look good.
Yes - let's see this. Any photoshop out there?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I'm not really worried about not getting boosts, I'm worried about needless nerfs, imbalance, loss of character and invalidating models.
This is GW - much gnashing of teeth expected with each release. But as I have never played SW before - it's all new to me.
Crablezworth wrote: The flying shoe is problematic. Not just the lack of viable flight that it shares with its cousins, the fact that a lot of the weaponry is top mounted and can barely see ground targets. That's a problem.
You don't need aerodynamics, if you got enough (vectored) thrust
But yeah, mounting weapons in completely illogical places is another continuing GW thing. There's very little thought given to how such a vehicle would actually function on the battlefield - of course it's a sci-fantasy vehicle, but giving it a touch of credibility would add to the coolness.
I get the impression it attacks by flying/hovering at a 30-45 degree angle, allowing it to reign fire down onto ground targets. It then levels out for troops to disembark. That would make the positioning make more sense, as otherwise forward-facing guns only work at huge range, or for mixing with other fighters, which this clearly isn't meant to do.
Also, rule of cool. It's big, blocky, and having sticky-outy gun turrets would detract from that.
The flyer is like "It's almost good, but something's just not right with it."
I also have $10 that says the Wolf dex will be boring, uninspired, random nerfs and more random tables.
spiralingcadaver wrote: I love the caestus, and enjoy that they have another model (loosely) based on it, but also think they completely missed the point when they gave it a regular cockpit and a back ramp.
Skeptical, but vaguely optimistic.
edit: wait, so, there's also a front-transport version? If so, I think I'll be using these as proxies for stormravens, since I hate the look of those.
I think I may actually do an armored cockpit for the assault version. Shouldn't be too hard with a little plasticard.
Yeah, thinking that's probably what I'll do- cut off all the SW stuff, re-armor the cockpit unless I decide it looks fine in person, call it a stormraven, and still look forward to the day I can get my hands on an actual caestus
Did I see the Helfrost Cannon has the same stats as the Helfrost Destructor? If so, then the two ships have functionally identical firepower (actually the transport has slightly more as the Cannon mount is twin linked).
Jefffar wrote: Did I see the Helfrost Cannon has the same stats as the Helfrost Destructor? If so, then the two ships have functionally identical firepower (actually the transport has slightly more as the Cannon mount is twin linked).
If I recall, the transport was small blast, the gunship was large blast.
Jefffar wrote: Did I see the Helfrost Cannon has the same stats as the Helfrost Destructor? If so, then the two ships have functionally identical firepower (actually the transport has slightly more as the Cannon mount is twin linked).
No, the one on the transport version is weaker and doesn't have lance.
MWHistorian wrote: I also have $10 that says the Wolf dex will be boring, uninspired, random nerfs and more random tables.
Easy bet to win against since the first two are entirely subjective, the third one is unprovable and the last one is 95% false (unless you count warlord traits and psychic powers).
kenneydee wrote: I thought SW didn't believe in flyers and all that jazz. I remember there was some reason behind their terminators not deep striking.
I think the 4th edition codex made some mention about fearing Teleporter technology (which they had used repeatedly prior to that codex). It also gaves us the "space wolves don't like jump packs and prefer to fight with feet on the ground" nonsense. Glad to see both may be going by the wayside.
It wasn't just a 4th ed thing. Blood Claws have always been the only ones to make any real use of jump packs, and I'm fairly sure the dislike for teleporters was mentioned in 2nd edition, somewhere.
Actual flying craft are acceptable, though. They've always had Thunderhawks, for example.
On the new flyer... As a dropship, I don't entirely hate it.
I WANT to like it, but I can't get the idea of it being a flying grey clog out of my head. Y'know, as in a wooden shoe. It's just not right for a flyer
Leggy wrote: I WANT to like it, but I can't get the idea of it being a flying grey clog out of my head. Y'know, as in a wooden shoe. It's just not right for a flyer
A shoe is far more pleasant than what immediately came to mind when I saw it.
On one hand I want this codex since it brings one of my armies up to date.
On the other there's that awful flyer which contradicts the "feet on the ground" fluff the Space Wolves have always had. What's next? Teleporting Wolf Guard?
No matter what my dumb self will shell out the $50 for an updated codex with which to try to tempt my friends back into the game (on a casual level) and most likely fail.
Etna's Vassal wrote: On the other there's that awful flyer which contradicts the "feet on the ground" fluff the Space Wolves have always had. What's next? Teleporting Wolf Guard?
It doesn't contradict anything.
SW prefer to fight with feet on the ground. This is why they use transports (like Drop Pods, Rhinos, Thunderhawks) to get them to where they can fight on the ground. They do not like to fight in mid air with jump packs like some kind of wet behind the ears Storm Claw. It has always been like this.
Also, this has never applied to Fighting Aircraft (Land Speeders, etc) which have always been separate from 'fighting with both feet on the ground'.
Go ahead and take a look at your previous codexes or the fluff again and you'll see that this flyer has nothing to do with contradiction.
First reactions to 40k flyers are a bit like looking at clouds. "That one looks like a croissant! That one's a goldfish! And that one's a goatse!" Now the Stormwolf's either a shoe or a dog's head. I'm all for healthy debate, but let's please settle on one or the other before it's too late. I need to know precisely which internet meme I should be incessantly referencing when I see these across the table. Thank you.
Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote: I think at this point with what I'm hearing in the rumours, I'm more annoyed at the prospect of losing the WG squad leaders. If they take away the true grit on GH, it sucks but I can kind of understand it. I'll just drop in and rapid fire and let them come at my CA but taking away the leader of the pack will really irk me because it's one of the bits of fluff I really loved.
The main annoyance if they make the change as rumoured is that it fraks up many of my models that are armed with Bolter/CCW. I'd rather they changed it to not have CA than get rid of Bolter/CCW/Pistol.
I was thinking about this today and a solution occurred to me that was stupidly obvious - make them Wolf Guard. If they've been around long enough that they have true grit then they deserve the promotion anyway.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I'll be unhappy if the GH rumour of having Bolter/Pistol and being able to swap the Bolter for a CCW is true.
On their own website they have several Bolter/CCW equipped guys.
Hopefully it's just Bolter/Pistol and for +1 pt you get a CCW in addition to the Bolter/Pistol not replacing the Bolter or Pistol.
Also if they get rid of WG mixed Termie squads and being able to lead squads with Termies, I'll also be unhappy.
GW do seem to love making me unhappy though. My SW are hanging on a knife's edge at the moment, if GW screw them up, I think I'll just give the SW away.
How dare GW change things that no one else has anymore!
H.B.M.C. wrote: When the Chibi-Hawk first came out I made the bold prediction that the next Marine flyer would be the opposite of that. Rather than having big wings and no fuselage it would have no wings and a bit fuselage. I was mostly right about the Space Guppy... but clearly I was not predicting the future, just the far future because Jesus Christ that thing has tiny wings.
I actually love it. Damned shame it's Wolves only.
Yeah I hate the small wings, but otherwise it looks pretty frakkin' rad. I don't even want to use it as a transport, maybe only in Apoc when I run out of Rhinos for all my infantry. Oh and you are never going to be able to draw LOS from those missiles/lascannons/turret mounted on the top of the vehicle (except to other flyers I suppose)? And am I the only one who actually likes the shootier version? If GW makes it <$85, I'll probably buy 2.
AegisGrimm wrote: No I know it's been said before, but I want to chime in:
A Space Marine "gunship" with transport capacity, brick-like aerodynamics and a very large main gun?
Errr...isn't that the Thunderhawk?
Yes, but this one is a fifth the $ cost of a Thunder Hawk, and more accessible in the US.
EDIT: Fluff: Space Wolves like to fight in their pack and don't want to share their transport, This allows for more focused assaults to planets without the commitment of sending Thunderhawks out.
Or something, listen view it like a Drop Pod that gets to shoot crap as it falls.
Paradigm wrote: I get the impression it attacks by flying/hovering at a 30-45 degree angle, allowing it to reign fire down onto ground targets. It then levels out for troops to disembark. That would make the positioning make more sense, as otherwise forward-facing guns only work at huge range, or for mixing with other fighters, which this clearly isn't meant to do.
Yep, most ground attack aircraft have forward-facing guns, anyway. Technically, also the turret could be there to defend against enemy fighters, as was often the case with WW2 ground attack aircraft - although I'm sure the idea has been just to add more dakka to the machine
AegisGrimm wrote: Plus, the Space Wolf codex was woefully lacking in the "requisite giant model" category.
Well, it could have been a Wolfknight instead. A quadrupedal Dreadnought for a critically injured thunderwolf, ridden by a Space Wolf Dreadnought.
Alternative build is the Wolftaurnought. A combination of both Wolfnought and Dreadnought in which the body of a dreadnought is attached to the body of the Wolfnought in place of the wolfhead.
AegisGrimm wrote: Now I know it's been said before, but I want to chime in:
A Space Marine "gunship" with transport capacity, brick-like aerodynamics and a very large main gun?
Errr...isn't that the Thunderhawk?
Which is why I don't like this new flyer. It's just an uglier version of the Caestus, with a cheaper plastic kit. The only reason for it to exist is to sell more stuff.
Uglier's subjective, I rather like the transport variant at least - tone down the symbology a bit and they've got a deal!
I'm not sure how it being cheaper is a bad thing... If you prefer the Caestus and you can afford it, the existence of this kit isn't going to stop you buying one...
Bull0 wrote: I'm not sure how it being cheaper is a bad thing... If you prefer the Caestus and you can afford it, the existence of this kit isn't going to stop you buying one...
The point is that it's a unit that shouldn't exist fluff-wise, but GW cares more about short-term sales than maintaining consistent fluff. And it's disappointing that the best GW could do is cut an existing kit in half and convert it from resin to plastic.
That gunship is the single most stupid model gw have ever done. I must admit I have spurned the wolves for so long but the promise of new models piqued my interest. That gunship however, has put me well off the wolves for another edition. Good day to you fine sirs.
AegisGrimm wrote: Now I know it's been said before, but I want to chime in:
A Space Marine "gunship" with transport capacity, brick-like aerodynamics and a very large main gun?
Errr...isn't that the Thunderhawk?
Which is why I don't like this new flyer. It's just an uglier version of the Caestus, with a cheaper plastic kit. The only reason for it to exist is to sell more stuff.
Exactly.
The flier is part terrible, part lazy design, but also part I'm glad this is not a boring airplane. Hard to describe.
How much is this fether going to cost then, any word on that?
I think their prices have gone nuts lately me. I have loved some of the new orks, especially Badrukks Flash Gitz, but they work out at like, 9 dollars a model or something, its just a bit fething absurd now.
I reckon I could be tempted if it is sub 80 bucks, but more than that and they can wedge it, Ill just spray a brick grey and glue some wings on the sides.
Well, count me in the very minor camp of those really liking this model.
I don't play space wolves and don't like their style nore fluff but I will definitelly buy one and paint it.
I might field a minimal space wolves allied detachment just to field this baby!
Yeah sorry, I meant 80 or less, I just expect them to feth the current prices off and for some bizarre reason add 25% for new things just because.. well.. they like to do that type of thing.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: Are we ever gonna get a transport with 20 model (10 TEQ) capacity outside of Apoc?
One of those baneblade variants (stormlord?) as a Lord of War choice. Apoc and "normal" 40k are practically no different in models and playstyle nowadays unfortunately with fliers, superheavies, and completely ignoring the force org as a "feature" of both.
My orks would like to loot one of these, stick tracks on it and count it as a Battlewagon (or looted wagon, or something). Or just loot it as is for Unbound games, I suppose - one of these would be a great trophy for any warboss.
I don't understand all the nerd-rage over its look. Of all the SM fliers, this looks the least stupid to me. Flying brick? - compared to what, a Thunderhawk? That said, the transport variant does look more 'sensible' that the shooty option.
I agree this will be SW-only. Until recently, GW didn't really do chapter-specific stuff - or rather, several models were originally released as chapter-specific but then magically appeared later in all other new marine codexes. But these days they seem quite relaxed about doing things like the DA-only fliers (now there are some ugly models!), presumably as their way to differentiate the chapters. Whether that really has much effect on customers choosing a marine chapter is another matter.
As near as I can tell we don't know points or armor yet. I'm liking the guns, but I'll guess that it's 13/12/12 .BS 4. 3 hull points. Because... well... Space wolves. I expect a bottom point cost of 165 for a stock transport version. And the fully loaded gun ship will top out at 220. Because again... Space Wolves and GW is going to make it attractive because of its single faction deployment. They want to sell models..
I'm liking the model overall. I don't love it, but far from hate it like I do most all other .sm fliers.
Jayden63 wrote: As near as I can tell we don't know points or armor yet. I'm liking the guns, but I'll guess that it's 13/12/22 .BS 4. 3 hull points. Because... well... Space wolves. I expect a bottom point cost of 165 for a stock transport version. And the fully loaded gun ship will top out at 220. Because again... Space Wolves and GW is going to make it attractive because of its single faction deployment. They want to sell models.
Clang wrote: I don't understand all the nerd-rage over its look. Of all the SM fliers, this looks the least stupid to me.
IMO it's not the design itself, it's the fact that they took an existing design and made it less appealing. If this had been the first one it wouldn't have been so bad, but when it's an obvious mediocre ripoff of one of GW's other kits it's pretty disappointing that this is the best they could do.
Jayden63 wrote: As near as I can tell we don't know points or armor yet. I'm liking the guns, but I'll guess that it's 13/12/22 .BS 4. 3 hull points. Because... well... Space wolves. I expect a bottom point cost of 165 for a stock transport version. And the fully loaded gun ship will top out at 220. Because again... Space Wolves and GW is going to make it attractive because of its single faction deployment. They want to sell models.
Stormwolf – Fast Attack – Points = Land Raider minus 35
BS4 – F12 S12 R12 HP3 – Vehicle (Flyer, Hover, Transport)
Stormfang Gunship – Heavy Support – Points = Land Raider minus 30
BS4 – F12 S12 R12 HP3 – Vehicle (Flyer, Hover Transport)
It's been posted a hundred times along with the weapons and all of that as well.
Why the mess is one in FA and the other in HS when they are the same basic ship? Blah, I need all my Fast Attack for my army of thunderwolves. Guess I'll have to go 2x3 rather than the more successful 3x2 I normally run inorder to fit the Stormwolf in.
Question that I'm unsure of because I've never bothered with paying attention to the StormRaven or any of the forgeworld versions. Can you embark out of these on the first turn they come on? I assume you have to pop on, then the next turn drop the payload but I wanted to be sure. If you can dump out in the first turn I could fill this sucker to the brim with WGT, Sven Bloodhowl (WolfLord) and a Rune Priest and just have a crusher unit to rain on someone's day. But if they have to wait a turn, putting that much in one transport would be asking to be blown down and run my game. Lol.
SmurfInABlender wrote: Why the mess is one in FA and the other in HS when they are the same basic ship? Blah, I need all my Fast Attack for my army of thunderwolves. Guess I'll have to go 2x3 rather than the more successful 3x2 I normally run inorder to fit the Stormwolf in.
Click the link and read.
My question: Can Cavalry embark transports? The 16 variant with a couple TWC in it would be hilarious.
SmurfInABlender wrote: Why the mess is one in FA and the other in HS when they are the same basic ship? Blah, I need all my Fast Attack for my army of thunderwolves. Guess I'll have to go 2x3 rather than the more successful 3x2 I normally run inorder to fit the Stormwolf in.
Click the link and read.
My question: Can Cavalry embark transports? The 16 variant with a couple TWC in it would be hilarious.
Why the mess is one in FA and the other in HS when they are the same basic ship? Blah, I need all my Fast Attack for my army of thunderwolves. Guess I'll have to go 2x3 rather than the more successful 3x2 I normally run inorder to fit the Stormwolf in.
Question that I'm unsure of because I've never bothered with paying attention to the StormRaven or any of the forgeworld versions. Can you embark out of these on the first turn they come on? I assume you have to pop on, then the next turn drop the payload but I wanted to be sure. If you can dump out in the first turn I could fill this sucker to the brim with WGT, Sven Bloodhowl (WolfLord) and a Rune Priest and just have a crusher unit to rain on someone's day. But if they have to wait a turn, putting that much in one transport would be asking to be blown down and run my game. Lol.
The Stormraven has a rule called "Skys of Fury"(and other terms depending on codex) that allows you to dump them on the turn you arrive. It is dangerous though for the units unless they have move through cover. They still can't assault the turn the arrive from reserves though.
(yes, my wallet weeps)
