I'm still betting Wulfen. I don't see them giving up a Dreadnought for a potential Astartes hero to a Wolf. Even considering fenrisian wolves are mutated marines, they don't treat them with the same level of respect.
A chariot doesn't actually sound too bad, especially if they make it available to normal Wolf Lords as well. It fits SW more than anyone else, and makes sense with the new 7th Ed chariot rules.
Yes, in all seriousness, as a daemons player I've been in a position to take advantage of the new chariot rules more than most since 7th, and if they let Logan keep his 2+ (Does he have EW too?) and make the chariot at least AV11 all round, it'll be a bear of a unit to deal with.
Looks like Logan Grimnar might be getting a new model after all. He's vanished from the webstore (GB). Has he disappeared from the other countries stores?
angelofvengeance wrote: Looks like Logan Grimnar might be getting a new model after all. He's vanished from the webstore (GB). Has he disappeared from the other countries stores?
angelofvengeance wrote: Looks like Logan Grimnar might be getting a new model after all. He's vanished from the webstore (GB). Has he disappeared from the other countries stores?
He's been out for a while...
So has Ulrik the Slayer and Ragnar Blackmane. I'm not seeing the point you're trying to make here..
Until the BA get their new model, which is a Terminator, inside a Centurion, inside a giant Furioso Dreadnought.
But there's an element of cross over in the nature of both chapters (albeit for different reasons) so I guess not stepping on each other's toes is tricky.
Look out for Baal Murderbats in the next BA book too..
Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote: Six HQ's? Seriously? I'm all for epic heroes and stuff but what game short of an apocalypse match would you even be able to fit that many into?
I love the new Bjorn model but for some reason I can't stop imagining him with a cane and pimp hat to go with all that bling. And is it bad I kind of really, really want to see what this "Murderfang" will look like? Because he sounds like an absolute nightmare in close combat.
Little gutted about the GH if that is true but an extra two points is still cheaper than Codex Marines so not too bad right?
Idk about you, but 6 rune priests in a tournament (assuming we kept the 24" possible deny) will be a huge hassle for other armies especially with a Level 2
Azreal13 wrote: Until the BA get their new model, which is a Terminator, inside a Centurion, inside a giant Furioso Dreadnought.
But there's an element of cross over in the nature of both chapters (albeit for different reasons) so I guess not stepping on each other's toes is tricky.
Look out for Baal Murderbats in the next BA book too..
Blood guns too, or some sort of weaponized Black Rage psychic thing.
Azreal13 wrote: Until the BA get their new model, which is a Terminator, inside a Centurion, inside a giant Furioso Dreadnought.
But there's an element of cross over in the nature of both chapters (albeit for different reasons) so I guess not stepping on each other's toes is tricky.
Look out for Baal Murderbats in the next BA book too..
Oh no... no no no... don't do that. Don't put those those words together and into reality.
Equipped with "Murderclaws"...judging by the names, have they snuck an Ork unit into this book?
Hmm... with rules like that, it'd only really be useful in a pod. Even then it'll do nothing on arrival and your opponent will have a turn to mitigate its impact.
Could certainly be a fun unit if you fully commit to a pod alpha-strike list and send him in with the first wave, but I'm hoping that the actual rules give him at least a multi-melta or something.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Murderfang is fine. Murderfang armed with Murderclaws whilst in the grips of Murderlust isn't.
Agreed. Murderlust is just lazy, and Murderfang/Murderclaw is all but interchangeable.
I've spotted a lot of Stormwolf/Stormfang and even Stormclaw mix ups over the past three weeks or so, this will be no different.
I know the remaining wolfy words aren't exactly intimidating, (tail... pelt... fur... pups), but surely GW can do a little better than the rumoured Murderfang trio above, (don't mind the Stormwolf/Stormfang so much, being a shared sprue and all). Then again, the above has come from a quick glance and memory combination so perhaps not set in stone just yet. In a strictly vernacular sense I wouldn't call it murder on the table top, nothing about those rules screams premeditated and calculated murder to me!
Murderfang sounds pretty cool, but unfortunately he is doomed to end up like every other CC focused dread I've ever fielded. Immobilized on turn 2 and spending the whole game making rude gestures at the enemy.
Jayden63 wrote: Murderfang sounds pretty cool, but unfortunately he is doomed to end up like every other CC focused dread I've ever fielded. Immobilized on turn 2 and spending the whole game making rude gestures at the enemy.
If any of these rumored rules floating around are true, then the amount of snowflaking is to damn high. And if it's true that Ward has written it... A new age of hate for him begins.
Murderfang, with his Murderclaws and his Murderlust, inside his wolfy Murderpod. Wich is launched from a Murdercannon... etc. etc.
Jayden63 wrote: Murderfang sounds pretty cool, but unfortunately he is doomed to end up like every other CC focused dread I've ever fielded. Immobilized on turn 2 and spending the whole game making rude gestures at the enemy.
Don't you mean Murdergestures?
Nope. While I can see the amusement of the SW name calling and what not its gotten really stale over the last say 4 years and I've never been to fond of getting drawn into it. GW naming is what it is, doesn't look like it will change anytime soon for the better either. But I don't need to participate on the over hashed usage either.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Murderfang armed with Murderclaws and having Murderlust.
Oh Jesus...
Yep, they definitely hired Dethklok.
Next White Dwarf will have Murderface show-casing his Murderfang with it's Murderclaws painted bloody, to accentuate it's murderlust.
Yeah, Murderface is fictional. Marketing will still find a way.
pretre wrote: No one author writes them. it's design team now.
It's always been a design team. The notion that one person wrote the book with no input from anyone else was stupid. But writers have a signature, and bad naming conventions (and terrible fluff in general) is Ward's.
In any case, I didn't mention Ward. Murdermurder McMurdermuder is dumb independent of whomever thought it up.
Anything is better than the old Codex. Time the Sons of Russ were given the chance to get back in the thick of it.
Wolves get the opportunity and check out Bethor's Banners on eBay. Best way to dress up your chapter.
Haakon Norssl wrote: Anything is better than the old Codex. Time the Sons of Russ were given the chance to get back in the thick of it.
Wolves get the opportunity and check out Bethor's Banners on eBay. Best way to dress up your chapter.
Haakon Norssl wrote: Anything is better than the old Codex. Time the Sons of Russ were given the chance to get back in the thick of it.
Wolves get the opportunity and check out Bethor's Banners on eBay. Best way to dress up your chapter.
The last codex was great...
and can still be competitive, we just don't have the auto-win function anymore.
For its time yes. It is still very good though some part of it definitely can use a bit of reshaping with the times and realigning of pts costs and what not.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Go to 1 minute 26 seconds a little further than 2/3rds in.
Maybe Murderlust will give him assault out of drop pods? I can't honestly see how they'd expect people to field him when he's either stuck coming out on turn one or footslogging across the board.
Not to mention, the picture doesn't technically say Murderfang is a dreadnought. It just says "New Dreadnoughts!", it could just be badly worded and talking about a new Venerable dreadnought model and Murderfang ends up being the rumoured MC. Slim to none chance I know but it's still possible, right?
Kal-El wrote: Sigh these rules look so bad from the leaked codex. Why GW O WHY
In what way?
If the stuff from pg 36 is all true, most of the stuff wasn't changed, didn't get new models, or changed for the worst. We got silly looking flyers with cool skill sets, no stormraven talon etc, no AA tanks, sagas are gone, TWC unchanged, swift claws BS was 3 still...it's just sounding so bad...then top it off with wolf gaurd and The grey hunter +2 pt tax, no werewolf wulfen stuff....I hope a supplement comes out. I know most are happy with bjorn, but omg really a dreadnought? They suck IMO, and if he is the only new cast of the models then dang.
Kal-El wrote: Sigh these rules look so bad from the leaked codex. Why GW O WHY
In what way?
If the stuff from pg 36 is all true, most of the stuff wasn't changed, didn't get new models, or changed for the worst. We got silly looking flyers with cool skill sets, no stormraven talon etc, no AA tanks, sagas are gone, TWC unchanged, swift claws BS was 3 still...it's just sounding so bad...then top it off with wolf gaurd and The grey hunter +2 pt tax, no werewolf wulfen stuff....I hope a supplement comes out. I know most are happy with bjorn, but omg really a dreadnought? They suck IMO, and if he is the only new cast of the models then dang.
I'm really disappointed.
TWC dropped 10 PPM, Grey Hunter is 1 PPM more expensive with the old loadout compared to old PPM. They will also be able to take the Stormwolf as DTs.
The Fliers are great, and giving SW 2 more beyond those would be a lot of fliers. The most of any SM chapter.
Swiftclaws dropped 5PP, Skyclaws dropped 3PPM
Sagas going away does suck.
No AA tanks, but they can't give SW everything in the C:SM book AND their own stuff. I don't think many people consider the Stalker or Hunter that great anyway.
SW apparently will be getting some cool Dreadnought toys(Storm Shield Dreadnoughts, whatever that does)
The new SW specific weapons from the fliers will also be on Dreadnoughts.
Gaining a powerful character on a chariot(chariot rules could make him amazing).
Gained relics, gained 2 new characters(Deathwolf+Murderfang)
Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote: Maybe Murderlust will give him assault out of drop pods? I can't honestly see how they'd expect people to field him when he's either stuck coming out on turn one or footslogging across the board.
Not to mention, the picture doesn't technically say Murderfang is a dreadnought. It just says "New Dreadnoughts!", it could just be badly worded and talking about a new Venerable dreadnought model and Murderfang ends up being the rumoured MC. Slim to none chance I know but it's still possible, right?
The Murderlust rule has been posted in several other places and what it does is: Ignores crew shaken and crew stunned results
I hadn't caught the TWC price drop. Good news, but I wonder if that makes them decent. Hmm...
On the one hand, in a unit of five that's a 50 point drop, which is pretty hefty. But 40 ppm still seems over-costed to me for what they offer, using khorne hounds and spawn as benchmarks.
I mean hell. Bloodcrushers are considered overcosted for what they do, yet they're only 45 points and come stock with Ap3 weapons, WS/BS5, fear, deep-strike, rage, a 5++ and an additional wound all in exchange for TWC's 3+ sv.
tarnish wrote: Really? Of all the unique and interesting things they could have done with the space wolves, they decided that YET ANOTHER dreadnought kit was the way to go. Amazingly creative, god i love the design department sometimes. When it comes to loyalist chapters they could just install a copy machine and fire the staff.
I'm sure the Murderfang was born out of the deisre to sell more Bjorn kits.
Why just sell a unique hero, when you can add the bits to make a kit you can use, and therefore sell, multiple copies of ?
And, to be fair, we're getting a chariot, a flyer with two variants and possibly 2 new dread variants (murderfang and Axe/SS Ven Dread). That's just new stuff, not counting changes to old.
I mean hell. Bloodcrushers are considered overcosted for what they do, yet they're only 45 points and come stock with Ap3 weapons, WS/BS5, fear, deep-strike, rage, a 5++ and an additional wound in exchange for TWC's 3+ sv.
Yeah, BS5 they pay for and is near impossible to use, Deep Strike which is utterly worthless on a unit that can cross the board in fewer turns than it would be able to assault in if it did, fear which is useless against a good percentage of factions and only a 5++
Yeah, BS5 they pay for and is near impossible to use, Deep Strike which is utterly worthless on a unit that can cross the board in fewer turns than it would be able to assault in if it did, fear which is useless against a good percentage of factions and only a 5++
... and? Bloodcrushers are junk, but what do TWC have over all of that to justify their price? Nothing really. A 3+ save- that makes them literally as durable as a biker squad. Ooohh.
Point is, they've been over-costed since the 5E 'dex was released. A 10ppm drop leaves them as still overcosted.
Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote: Maybe Murderlust will give him assault out of drop pods? I can't honestly see how they'd expect people to field him when he's either stuck coming out on turn one or footslogging across the board.
Not to mention, the picture doesn't technically say Murderfang is a dreadnought. It just says "New Dreadnoughts!", it could just be badly worded and talking about a new Venerable dreadnought model and Murderfang ends up being the rumoured MC. Slim to none chance I know but it's still possible, right?
The Murderlust rule has been posted in several other places and what it does is: Ignores crew shaken and crew stunned results
Hadn't caught that, cheers!
Hadn't heard anything about the point drops for other units either, source on that?
I am excited about the new dreads though, I'm not normally a humongous fan of them but I can't think of anything cooler than a couple dreadnoughts coming down wielding huge shields and axes or something.
Hadn't heard anything about the point drops for other units either, source on that?
I am excited about the new dreads though, I'm not normally a humongous fan of them but I can't think of anything cooler than a couple dreadnoughts coming down wielding huge shields and axes or something.
It's the same source, Little Bird from Warseer. For some reason only his post without points is making the rounds, but here is the one with the points.
Not worth 40ppm, imo. Space Marines as an entire army concept is practical evidence of how overrated versatility is in this game. Specialist units that are great at their one intended role are better, and tend to be priced better, than units that are "okay" at everything and pay a premium for it.
Not worth 40ppm, imo. Space Marines as an entire army concept is practical evidence of how overrated versatility is in this game. Specialist units that are great at their one intended role are better, and tend to be priced better, than units that are "okay" at everything and pay a premium for it.
I think 35ppm would be more fair, though.
40 is a fair price. Necron Wraiths are too good for their points and TWC (by the end of the cycle) are too expensive. Hopefully the wraith will see a points increase or a nerf in abilities to match what it currently costs.
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BlaxicanX wrote: I hadn't caught the TWC price drop. Good news, but I wonder if that makes them decent. Hmm...
On the one hand, in a unit of five that's a 50 point drop, which is pretty hefty. But 40 ppm still seems over-costed to me for what they offer, using khorne hounds and spawn as benchmarks.
I mean hell. Bloodcrushers are considered overcosted for what they do, yet they're only 45 points and come stock with Ap3 weapons, WS/BS5, fear, deep-strike, rage, a 5++ and an additional wound all in exchange for TWC's 3+ sv.
I think your forgetting the TWC biggest advantage. Its the one guy with the powerfist. Bloodcrushers cant get 5 S10 AP2 attacks on a three man unit. The other 12 S5 rending attacks don't hurt either. TWC were a good unit. Hell they still are a good unit. The problem is the basic assault nerf in the main rules is what makes them less attractive and seem over costed. If we ever get to 8th or 9th edition and they fix the troublesome assault rules, they are probably going to seem like a gift at 40 points each.
Wraths come stock with a 3+ invul. And also the dreadnought at the end of the day are still dreadnoughts unless they have some kind of mini ion shield or w/e like the knights and get an invul from storm shield. Then they might be alright.
Auswin wrote: I could be off base, but this reeks of a Ward codex -- only because he tends to love his own ideas.
"Remember those claw things I put on a Furioso? We're doing that again... but with, wait for it... UNMELTABLE ICE CLAWS!"
"You know that thing I did with Necrons were flyers were dedicated transports. Well imagine that, but FROSTY!"
In all honesty the rumored rules look neat. Part of me dreads the fluff bending flyer spam that could happen, but it is what it is.
How are the fliers bending the fluff? If you're referring to the "Feet on the ground" thing, it's been covered about a million ways to sunday in previous posts already.
Geez I better update the OP with the new info from Warseer:
Automatically Appended Next Post: Damn, so SW Termies still overcosted as hell to upgrade. Sorry guys, CA is NOT worth +3 points! Especially now that TWC are only 40 pts and have a FAR better chance of getting into CC.
BlaxicanX wrote: Space Marines as an entire army concept is practical evidence of how overrated versatility is in this game. Specialist units that are great at their one intended role are better, and tend to be priced better, than units that are "okay" at everything and pay a premium for it.
The results from BAO seem to disagree. Looks like expensive, versatile, OK-at-everything units are REALLY good, as long as they have Objective Secured and cheap Dedicated Transports.
Is that a question or a statement? I doubt it'd be up for preorder this weekend, as we know the Dread is going up this weekend and GW tend to release the codex in the last week, so unless SW are only getting the Stormwolfywolf and a Dread, I doubt the codex will go up this weekend.
"You know that thing I did with Necrons were flyers were dedicated transports. Well imagine that, but FROSTY!"
How are the fliers bending the fluff? If you're referring to the "Feet on the ground" thing, it's been covered about a million ways to sunday in previous posts already.
I guess he didn't meant flyers per se but flyers as dedicated transports without using a slot.
I doubt it, otherwise they wouldn't be publishing the Murderfang's rule in the WD this week because you'd get your codex and Muderfang at the same time due to pre-orders so you wouldn't need WD rules
The Wulfen Stone - This ancient gem was found by Wolf Lord Jorin Bloodfang on an Eldar Crone World during the 13th Great Company's sojourn into the Eye of Terror. It was worked into Jorin's suit of Power Armour by the great artificer and one of the Company's few surviving Iron Priests, Fengri. Within its murky depths lies the raging image of the Were, the monster of Fenris that lies coiled within the gene-helix of every Space Wolf. The Wulfen Stone has the unusual property of amplifying a bearer's Wulfen rage to far beyond that of the rest of their kin. Its horror can be borne by few creatures and as a result, most foes will break and run in absolute terror before the fell creature before them. This dire relic is one of the Space Wolves' greatest treasures.
On topic, I am seriously looking forward to this release in a way I did not for either my Tyranids or my Orks. Looks like it's time for my original army to come back to the forefront of my gaming!
Triszin wrote: found this bit of Lore on the wulfenstone
The Wulfen Stone - This ancient gem was found by Wolf Lord Jorin Bloodfang on an Eldar Crone World during the 13th Great Company's sojourn into the Eye of Terror. It was worked into Jorin's suit of Power Armour by the great artificer and one of the Company's few surviving Iron Priests, Fengri. Within its murky depths lies the raging image of the Were, the monster of Fenris that lies coiled within the gene-helix of every Space Wolf. The Wulfen Stone has the unusual property of amplifying a bearer's Wulfen rage to far beyond that of the rest of their kin. Its horror can be borne by few creatures and as a result, most foes will break and run in absolute terror before the fell creature before them. This dire relic is one of the Space Wolves' greatest treasures.
Wow! still a chance that the bearer of the wulfenstone makes the unit wulfen (but probably it only makes the bearer wulfen which is lame)
Looking at the Space Wolf Dreadnaughts you could easily come up with a very heavy “In your Face” Dreadnought List.
LoW: Bjorn and if he allows you to take some.
Elite #1: MurderFang
Elite #2: The rumored Storm Shield
Elite#3: Well for me it is one with the Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter [A Fluffy Model for me]
If you can pulls off a 2nd Detachment add three more with everything in Pods [including the Grey Hunters].
dreads with CC or some kind of invul would go a long way to making dreads more competitive.
this looks like it is shaping up to be a great release,
I sincerely hope that its indicative of things to come, as GW really did an awesome job with orks, and it looks like SW get the same treatment.
really likeing how they seem to be focusing much more on giving use multiple ways to build synergized themed lists that can also do well on the table with things like formations.
On topic, I am seriously looking forward to this release in a way I did not for either my Tyranids or my Orks. Looks like it's time for my original army to come back to the forefront of my gaming!
This release certainly has a very different air to it, there seems to be less general annoyance at GW
easysauce wrote: dreads with CC or some kind of invul would go a long way to making dreads more competitive.
this looks like it is shaping up to be a great release,
I sincerely hope that its indicative of things to come, as GW really did an awesome job with orks, and it looks like SW get the same treatment.
really likeing how they seem to be focusing much more on giving use multiple ways to build synergized themed lists that can also do well on the table with things like formations.
Awesome in the way they removed units from the codex and redesigned the army list page into a horrid photoshoot? If the SW dex is the same then I'm done with 7th edition
Well Daston we'll be seeing you. The Ork codex is 99% likely the way codex design is going forward. Let usk now what armies you play and when you are planning on selling them though. Lots of people like to pick up discounted stuff
Wolves are getting a far nicer release that actually feels like there are some boosts to it. Where as Orks and Nids definitely did not feel anywhere near the same way. I am actually enjoying this wolves release in comparison to those really rough not fun weeks prior to both ork and nid.
Daston wrote: Awesome in the way they removed units from the codex and redesigned the army list page into a horrid photoshoot? If the SW dex is the same then I'm done with 7th edition
I like the photoshoot orkdex. Anyways... See you in 8th.
I bought the stormclaw set for the orks... I dont think Ill be selling the SW's... great models and what looks like a neat new codex might just get me into that army too!
I think I might just need one of those Dreads. Assuming the arms are like every other Dread kit, It looks pretty easy to make Bjorn/Murderfang/VenDread interchangable from a single kit.
Might be time to hit ebay, grab some cheap Stormclaw Wolves, and get the Sons of Russ back on the workbench...
BlaxicanX wrote: I hadn't caught the TWC price drop. Good news, but I wonder if that makes them decent. Hmm...
I thought they were very aggressively priced back in 5th but I traded my army that had six of them just into through 6th (only played two games in 6th with them). I'm not sure how 7th affected them and if the 10 pt TWC price decrease is warranted. They were incredibly effective at 50 PPM previously and I loved taking them stock.
BlaxicanX wrote: I hadn't caught the TWC price drop. Good news, but I wonder if that makes them decent. Hmm...
I thought they were very aggressively priced back in 5th but I traded my army that had six of them just into through 6th (only played two games in 6th with them). I'm not sure how 7th affected them and if the 10 pt TWC price decrease is warranted. They were incredibly effective at 50 PPM previously and I loved taking them stock.
And just think...due to the new wargear format, there is a good chance they will be getting much cheaper Stormshields, Fists, hammers etc....
The Wolf Guard and Long Fang editions better include something good to make them worth that price. The Orks Warboss is priced at only $165 for 3 books and accessories.
But holy crap, AU$300 for a limited edition book? Pull the other one GW...
Well, to be fair, we don't know what's in it. That is a crazy price though. Even at $250 US, I don't think I'll bite unless it comes with my own actual Wolf Guard.
Ugh! They've actually made the torso at the front of the ven dread model is actually the SM's torso canon.
I thought it looked utterly stupid when I saw people sticking a bare head in that slot and just shook my head as I knew how misguided they were as the helmet piece was just decorative and the actual SM was further back in the chassis.
Grimtuff wrote: Ugh! They've actually made the torso at the front of the ven dread model is actually the SM's torso canon.
I thought it looked utterly stupid when I saw people sticking a bare head in that slot and just shook my head as I knew how misguided they were as the helmet piece was just decorative and the actual SM was further back in the chassis.
A dreadnought with a giant axe and shield......to me, that just looks like someone got lazy in the design department. Are BA dreads going to come with a jump pack and a chalice? DA dreads covered in robes?
From a rules perspective......a frelling venerable dread with a 3+ invuln save!? Give it a drop pod and watch your opponents run!
l0k1 wrote: A dreadnought with a giant axe and shield......to me, that just looks like someone got lazy in the design department. Are BA dreads going to come with a jump pack and a chalice? DA dreads covered in robes?
From a rules perspective......a frelling venerable dread with a 3+ invuln save!? Give it a drop pod and watch your opponents run!
You shut your mouth! Axe/SS dread is awesome. Did you come up with the idea? Nope.
pretre wrote: Well, to be fair, we don't know what's in it. That is a crazy price though. Even at $250 US, I don't think I'll bite unless it comes with my own actual Wolf Guard.
Or a Fenrisian wolf pup. Aww! He'll be adorable... and then later he'll be the size of a van.
But holy crap, AU$300 for a limited edition book? Pull the other one GW...
Well, to be fair, we don't know what's in it. That is a crazy price though. Even at $250 US, I don't think I'll bite unless it comes with my own actual Wolf Guard.
I wonder if they are going to include a supplement in the Long Fang edition and then the Wolf Guard edition comes with the supplement and an art book or something of that nature.
Those dreads are AWESOME. And with a stormsheild I could actually see the dread surviving into CC especially if drop podded in, or hell, even just footslogging him and making him a massive distraction unit for the rest of your army...
Just hope it doesn't cost like 50 pts to give it to the dread...
l0k1 wrote: A dreadnought with a giant axe and shield......to me, that just looks like someone got lazy in the design department. Are BA dreads going to come with a jump pack and a chalice? DA dreads covered in robes?
From a rules perspective......a frelling venerable dread with a 3+ invuln save!? Give it a drop pod and watch your opponents run!
You shut your mouth! Axe/SS dread is awesome. Did you come up with the idea? Nope.
(Okay, I may be emotionally invested in AxeDread)
Lol it was just an opinion. If I played SW I would probably buy stacks of this kit. Ruleswise, the models it makes should be pretty good.
Bull0 wrote: I imagine it'll be similar tat to the Orks Warboss edition - art cards, objective markers, perhaps the objective cards, that sort of thing.
The Warboss edition was $165.
The Wolf Guard edition is even more expensive...which is interesting.
They know Space Wolf players have more disposable income. Because Space Wolf players are smarter, better looking, and more successful than players of other factions.
Good call on that typo. I think HBMC nailed it. I went and made the mistake of forgetting how hastily GW puts together literature.
I really want 360's of the dreads. Axe shield looks a little squat for my taste though I do love the idea and imagine the stats will be crazy. Having access to logans chariot and those things should make wolves VERY annoying to deal with in missions. They are basically mega tarpits/ movement blockers.
I am also excited the codex release is in sight now.
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Kirasu wrote: Or they've realized players will drop stacks of money for books with the same content but have a different name.
There will always be consumers for exclusive/specialist products. Even if it is just a numbered copy with different cover art.
I am the guy who wishes there was a cheapo black and white soft cover but to each their own.
Bull0 wrote: I imagine it'll be similar tat to the Orks Warboss edition - art cards, objective markers, perhaps the objective cards, that sort of thing.
The Warboss edition was $165.
The Wolf Guard edition is even more expensive...which is interesting.
Wouldn't read too much into it. It's probably just got a nicer cardboard sleeve or something like that.
The axe guy needs a wrist. Or else he is just chopping wood.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I assume the two books are the codex and the Sagas (whatever that is) and the three books adds the Champions of Fenris supplement.
easysauce wrote: dreads with CC or some kind of invul would go a long way to making dreads more competitive.
this looks like it is shaping up to be a great release,
I sincerely hope that its indicative of things to come, as GW really did an awesome job with orks, and it looks like SW get the same treatment.
really likeing how they seem to be focusing much more on giving use multiple ways to build synergized themed lists that can also do well on the table with things like formations.
Awesome in the way they removed units from the codex and redesigned the army list page into a horrid photoshoot? If the SW dex is the same then I'm done with 7th edition
Yeah I've seen the Ork dex, it's a shame, we've gone from black and white full page with image (artwork) to colour full page with image (artwork) and now we have half a page of photo, a paragraph of law and 1/3 of a page unit entry. I prefered the middle one (I have C:CSM and C:CD) and they are lovely hard back books
This is from someone I know on another forum. Really made me laugh:
white_rabbit wrote:I can normally be relied upon for a calm and rational response to the daftness. I am going to restrain myself here...
But head sticking out of the sarcophagus is the single most feth-stupid model idea GW have ever produced.
I could just about deal with the face-mask on the Furioso Librarian, as its easy to paint it as a simple Deathmask ornament.
But an actual head protruding out of it, which isn't actually a fething Daemon/fethed up chaos Dready?
Get the feth away from me, you colossal idiots. How do you not know your own background? Its actually worse than the Dow2 thing, where the ex-captain is bumping against the aquari...sorry, the view port.
H.B.M.C. wrote: This is from someone I know on another forum. Really made me laugh:
white_rabbit wrote:I can normally be relied upon for a calm and rational response to the daftness. I am going to restrain myself here...
But head sticking out of the sarcophagus is the single most feth-stupid model idea GW have ever produced.
I could just about deal with the face-mask on the Furioso Librarian, as its easy to paint it as a simple Deathmask ornament.
But an actual head protruding out of it, which isn't actually a fething Daemon/fethed up chaos Dready?
Get the feth away from me, you colossal idiots. How do you not know your own background? Its actually worse than the Dow2 thing, where the ex-captain is bumping against the aquari...sorry, the view port.
Agreed- if it's one of the helmed heads, I can imagine a dreadnought using it as a way to see out of his sarcophagus. Having his fleshy head poking out of it you may as well not bother putting him in there in the first place.
H.B.M.C. wrote: This is from someone I know on another forum. Really made me laugh:
white_rabbit wrote:I can normally be relied upon for a calm and rational response to the daftness. I am going to restrain myself here...
But head sticking out of the sarcophagus is the single most feth-stupid model idea GW have ever produced.
I could just about deal with the face-mask on the Furioso Librarian, as its easy to paint it as a simple Deathmask ornament.
But an actual head protruding out of it, which isn't actually a fething Daemon/fethed up chaos Dready?
Get the feth away from me, you colossal idiots. How do you not know your own background? Its actually worse than the Dow2 thing, where the ex-captain is bumping against the aquari...sorry, the view port.
Agreed- if it's one of the helmed heads, I can imagine a dreadnought using it as a way to see out of his sarcophagus. Having his fleshy head poking out of it you may as well not bother putting him in there in the first place.
In one of the Salamander books after a battle with Orks one of the dreadnoughts in the story took sarcophagus damage from Orks trying to break into it.
With an exposed head they would simply, kill him.
Then again I also refuse to model a marine without a helmet, and I love that some of the better authors specifically mention Space Wolves putting their helmets on.
I notice they dont display a dreadnought with frost cannon.
Good riddance!
The shield dread will probably pay dearly for the ++ and venerable, and still run in to cc with few attacks and ap2
(and all the stigma of getting a dread in to cc), or just the one shoty arm (I assume it can combine with shield),
making it less than optimal for anything.
The ironclad would still be superior with its simple av 13.
Edit: I mean, if sw had gotten an iron clad instead.
Fayric wrote: I notice they domt display a dreadnought with frost cannon.
Good riddance!
The shield dread will probably pay dearly for the ++ and venerable, and still run in to cc with few attacks and ap2
(and all the stigma of getting a dread in to cc), or just the one shoty arm (I assume it can combine with shield),
making it less than optimal for anything.
The ironclad would still be superior with its simple av 13.
Unless there is some new shiny rules involved.
I do hope you can take the Storm Shield by itself.
If so I am thinking Plasma Cannon/Storm Shield.
3++ Save
50/50 take a wound on a 1 and then a 3++ Save
That is my biggest fear as well. The dreads while looking cool will still be over coated by 25 points and usually underperform on the battlefield when compared to most anything else for the same points.
wana10 wrote: Maybe one of the fans of axe-dread can help me out here; how is it supposed to hit anything not a vehicle with that axe?
Dreadnoughts actually have a pretty decent amount of movement. Plus the giant shield he's carrying will probably hurt too if he smashes someone with it.
wana10 wrote: Maybe one of the fans of axe-dread can help me out here; how is it supposed to hit anything not a vehicle with that axe?
Dreadnoughts actually have a pretty decent amount of movement. Plus the giant shield he's carrying will probably hurt too if he smashes someone with it.
Ah, didn't realize the shoulder had such a range of motion. it's always been modeled as a more restricted up down motion. Thank you.
Well, Bjorn looks great, but those other dreads are just daft. I never liked the design of the venerable sarcophagus, and exposed head doesn't make it any better. And dreads that already have weapons for hands holding weapons in their hands just looks goofy.
H.B.M.C. wrote: This is from someone I know on another forum. Really made me laugh:
white_rabbit wrote:I can normally be relied upon for a calm and rational response to the daftness. I am going to restrain myself here...
But head sticking out of the sarcophagus is the single most feth-stupid model idea GW have ever produced.
I could just about deal with the face-mask on the Furioso Librarian, as its easy to paint it as a simple Deathmask ornament.
But an actual head protruding out of it, which isn't actually a fething Daemon/fethed up chaos Dready?
Get the feth away from me, you colossal idiots. How do you not know your own background? Its actually worse than the Dow2 thing, where the ex-captain is bumping against the aquari...sorry, the view port.
wana10 wrote: Maybe one of the fans of axe-dread can help me out here; how is it supposed to hit anything not a vehicle with that axe?
Dreadnoughts actually have a pretty decent amount of movement. Plus the giant shield he's carrying will probably hurt too if he smashes someone with it.
Ah, didn't realize the shoulder had such a range of motion. it's always been modeled as a more restricted up down motion. Thank you.
They have traditionally been modelled like that, but I think the new axe/claw models are a step away from this and better represent the motion Dreads can produce.
H.B.M.C. wrote: This is from someone I know on another forum. Really made me laugh:
white_rabbit wrote:I can normally be relied upon for a calm and rational response to the daftness. I am going to restrain myself here...
But head sticking out of the sarcophagus is the single most feth-stupid model idea GW have ever produced.
I could just about deal with the face-mask on the Furioso Librarian, as its easy to paint it as a simple Deathmask ornament.
But an actual head protruding out of it, which isn't actually a fething Daemon/fethed up chaos Dready?
Get the feth away from me, you colossal idiots. How do you not know your own background? Its actually worse than the Dow2 thing, where the ex-captain is bumping against the aquari...sorry, the view port.
Well, at one point I wanted to convert an Angry Marine Dreadnought where the guy inside wants to get out to punch the enemy in the face. This isn't that far away - though I guess the conversion would look better.
If it was me, I'd have modelled it with some sort of snarling wolf's head option. In fact that's what I'd recommend instead- Iron Priest head from the new flyer kit or the wolf shaped helmet you get with the Grey Hunters box
Umm cause not all venerable dreadnoughts look the same perhaps?
Exactly, and if you own the Venerable Dreadnought box, you'll notice the normal sarcophagus is also official for Venerables(it's one of the options in the box).
Fezman wrote: The new Dreads look the part, except for the bare head. Unless the Mark of the Wulfen drives them so crazy they forget what a sniper is.
And what if his nose itches?
Or something as simple as a tyranid ripper or anything small that has teeth and can climb. He's dead meat.
Ah well, it's the only thing that I haven't liked so far this release, and it's a minor problem.
TheDraconicLord wrote: Ice claws are sexy as hell. If there ever were SW bits I wanted badly, those bits are the ice claws.
Really? I thought they're a pretty silly idea... IMO anyways.
It's a YMMV thing. In my case, I'm a complete sucker for anything "ice-weapon" related in any setting: Frost sword, frost claws, ice dragons, blizzard spells; You get the idea. So, gigantic Ice Claws for me = "YES, OH YES!"
I have to say I like Bjorn, hes an update to an iconic model that has aged well but the two new variants are left wanting in my eyes.
I am happy to get the rules which sound boss, and I can see why others like them. The bare head is silly but you can always use Bjorns sarcophagus cover. I like his claw more then the ice ones too. I imagine bits ordering a second would remedy any issues with murderfang easily enough.
Still really want a 360 for the axe/ss variety though. Not a fan of the dreadfist holding an axe but meh, I can change that.
Did I miss a link with the cost of the ven shield dread?
its no sillier then guys going into combat with no helmets, or the whole concepts of elves, orks, magical warp powers and so on in space.
looks cooler then staring at a blank armour plate IMO
I think you aren't acknowledging the fact that the very same people that find Murderfangs exposed head silly ALSO find other exposed marine heads silly.
But as I said before it is extra parts, so no need to sweat it, just use the mark V shield.
TheDraconicLord wrote: Ice claws are sexy as hell. If there ever were SW bits I wanted badly, those bits are the ice claws.
Really? I thought they're a pretty silly idea... IMO anyways.
It's a YMMV thing. In my case, I'm a complete sucker for anything "ice-weapon" related in any setting: Frost sword, frost claws, ice dragons, blizzard spells; You get the idea. So, gigantic Ice Claws for me = "YES, OH YES!"
Living in Maine I can tell you from an experienced childhood of freezing ice weapons in winter and terrifying the neighbors that ice makes for terrible weapons in practice. I know its "alien" but its hard for me to suspend my disbelief on that front. To me I can't break the image of his claws snapping mid swing Crystals are something I am inexperienced with however
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Triszin wrote: I give a little leeway because it appears to be a wulfen entombed
IMO more reason to cover that mug and unplug his VOX if he was in my company.
So... Murderfang looks ok. I do like the blinged-up look for Space Wolf dreads.
Bjorn is still rocking.
The axe-dread looks ridiculous. The storm shield is awesome, but dreads holding oversized weapons in their fists just looks wrong. It can work on the Contemptor chassis, but on regular dreads they just look awkward. Would much rather have seen the axe built into the elbow joint, replacing the hand.
I think you aren't acknowledging the fact that the very same people that find Murderfangs exposed head silly ALSO find other exposed marine heads silly.
not really I am sure they do find that silly, i just mean that there really is a very short list of "non silly" stuff in 40k, as everything about anything in this game is silly if you try to be literal with it... im sure the people who find exposed heads silly find this silly as well, and are the same ones who cant get over the whole "flying brick aesthetics" and so on.
every weapon thats not a basic knife, rock, or choppa seems to only work with pretend silly magic/tech.
rocket powered + conventionally propelled bolter bullets that explode, cool, but totally unrealistic and silly... same with how 99% of people do not model on a single extra mag to their marines, but at least exposed heads look cool.
one mans rule of cool being another ones "thats too silly" and all that.
either way, they can models stuff to not be like that pretty easily so its a moot point, I mean, hey I find the dreadknight model to be a bit silly in that it has the operator unenclosed and right in front, So i just model it to look cooler IMO with everything internalized.
I am really hoping that the model itself has the range of motion increased for more posing too, that would be great,
same with costing of the SS, as that is just so good to have I cant imagine not taking it.
I loves wolves but that dread with a axe is pretty lame. WTF is the point of the hand when they can just attach a axe not to mention seeing where your hitting. It would be like r2d2 trying to stab you miss back up and forward again.
Considering I built a BA Librarian dread with hands for the force staff I'm cool with it. Plus it's a DREADNOUGHT with a STORMSHIELD!!!!! Rule of cool does apply sometimes.
OgreChubbs wrote: I loves wolves but that dread with a axe is pretty lame. WTF is the point of the hand when they can just attach a axe not to mention seeing where your hitting. It would be like r2d2 trying to stab you miss back up and forward again.
Greater reach would be my first thought. Plus Dreadnoughts have a pretty good set of autosenses and instruments.Again- Dreadnoughts are not limited to up/down arm movements..
Hulksmash wrote: Considering I built a BA Librarian dread with hands for the force staff I'm cool with it. Plus it's a DREADNOUGHT with a STORMSHIELD!!!!! Rule of cool does apply sometimes.
I like the idea of a Wulfen dreadnought quite a bit. Seeing his misanthropic head stuffed into the top of a sarcophagus is pretty absurd though. Looks idiotic. The rest of the model looks good, and it is an easy head to change out. Problem solved.
insaniak wrote: So... Murderfang looks ok. I do like the blinged-up look for Space Wolf dreads.
Bjorn is still rocking.
The axe-dread looks ridiculous. The storm shield is awesome, but dreads holding oversized weapons in their fists just looks wrong. It can work on the Contemptor chassis, but on regular dreads they just look awkward. Would much rather have seen the axe built into the elbow joint, replacing the hand.
You mean like the Chaos dreadnought thunder hammer arm from ages ago? (Or heck, the current CSM dreadnought model)
H.B.M.C. wrote: This is from someone I know on another forum. Really made me laugh:
white_rabbit wrote:I can normally be relied upon for a calm and rational response to the daftness. I am going to restrain myself here...
But head sticking out of the sarcophagus is the single most feth-stupid model idea GW have ever produced.
I could just about deal with the face-mask on the Furioso Librarian, as its easy to paint it as a simple Deathmask ornament.
But an actual head protruding out of it, which isn't actually a fething Daemon/fethed up chaos Dready?
Get the feth away from me, you colossal idiots. How do you not know your own background? Its actually worse than the Dow2 thing, where the ex-captain is bumping against the aquari...sorry, the view port.
Agreed- if it's one of the helmed heads, I can imagine a dreadnought using it as a way to see out of his sarcophagus. Having his fleshy head poking out of it you may as well not bother putting him in there in the first place.
At least on the Axe/Shield dread it's an ornamental wolf skull (which looks awesome btw). Although I agree that I'd prefer if the Dread was not holding the axe, but whatever. Good thing I've got so many otherwise useless Dreads lying around, I'll be able to convert up an Axe/SS and Murderfang for much less than $130 CAD (...which will instead fund my Stormfang + Codex).
I'm not familiar with the venerable dreadnought chassis but does anybody know if it will be possible to build Murderfang or the normal dread with Bjorn's sarcophagus without using Bjorn's plates with his company badge on it...because those heads really scares me
its kind of funny, some people have issues with the dread holding an axe in its powerfist, and want to see it just attached,
I actually LIKE that he has a opposable hand holding it, as it makes more sense to me (what if the dread has to pick something up after all?) and feel like the attached arms on dreads and knight titans look silly as they are not as dextrous as a hand held weapon.
holding a weapon in the hand gives it more dexterity, as well as more leverage for more powerful and precise striking, so it looks cool/seems to work better in my mind.
probably a lot easier to convert a hand holding the axe into an axe arm, then it is to convert an axe arm into a fist holding that axe.
wana10 wrote:Maybe one of the fans of axe-dread can help me out here; how is it supposed to hit anything not a vehicle with that axe?
Like this! (skip to 3:56ish)
Edit: I have to wonder what the Axe actually does though. I mean, a DCCW/Power Fist is already S10 AP2 at Initiative. Probably like a Wraithblade that gives rerolls or something?
Between the gunboat brick and the murdering murderfang of murder, this whole release is some seriously lazy and uninspiring design. It's lowest common denominator stuff.
I have the old Bjorn. The newer one is not enough of an improvement, and the bling is too over the top.
GW used to do "over the top" in a cool way. This stuff just looks like typical 12-year-old "over the top" stupidity.
I'm happy for anyone who enjoys them, but they're not for me.
angelofvengeance wrote: You mean like the Chaos dreadnought thunder hammer arm from ages ago? (Or heck, the current CSM dreadnought model)
Exactly like that, yes.
easysauce wrote: I actually LIKE that he has a opposable hand holding it, as it makes more sense to me (what if the dread has to pick something up after all?)
Given that it' arms don't reach to the ground and it has no way to bend over, I doubt that's a primary design consideration.
Stormfang / Stormwolf? - Already bought one. I will have it by Saturday.
Grey Hunters - As long as they continue to be the best troop choice in the game. They do not raise the price on them too much and they still can take some weapons for free. I am in.
Murderfang / Bjon/ AND a ven dread in the same box? - SOLD
Murderfang - If its a wolf in a dreadnought....SOLD! Plus it looks kinda bad ass.
I just need one more thing to be sold completely on this codex. WE NEED ONE MORE TANK! A unique tank like that new guard tank with those half track things. I want something cool looking on the ground like THAT one!
Or, maybe some special rules to make a Dreadnought army more viable. Like, Fast attack and Troop choice dreads or something like that.
Fugazi wrote: Between the gunboat brick and the murdering murderfang of murder, this whole release is some seriously lazy and uninspiring design. It's lowest common denominator stuff.
I have the old Bjorn. The newer one is not enough of an improvement, and the bling is too over the top.
GW used to do "over the top" in a cool way. This stuff just looks like typical 12-year-old "over the top" stupidity.
I'm happy for anyone who enjoys them, but they're not for me.
Meh...I think I'm gonna go play with my bikes and SM. Codex dreadnought still doesn't sound enticing and really expected more from the new models for the army.
The only thing that might keep me playing this army consistently is if it has some better usage with the TWC or swift claws BSWs is 4 (prob not).
I'm just not a dreadnought fan and I don't like the air boat. I hope they give us a wulfen codex supplement and wulfen models.
easysauce wrote: I actually LIKE that he has a opposable hand holding it, as it makes more sense to me (what if the dread has to pick something up after all?)
Given that it' arms don't reach to the ground and it has no way to bend over, I doubt that's a primary design consideration.
dreads are more dextrous then you think, they can very much touch the ground, same axis on the legs that lets them take steps could let them bend over.
its still going to have more range of motion due to the wrist joint being there, IE can twist, and its still got more leverage that way.
think of it this way, hold an axe head in your hand, try to split a log with it, doesnt work so hot.
hold an axe by the handle, and the leverage improves your power considerably.
I do think they should have made a more nimble looking hand though, as the power fist looks a bit awkward holding it, compared to say a dreadknight where the fist actually looks dextrous enough to grip it.
Ok, I'm still bothered by this.. but why does he have a lense on his hand? Do they make "MurderCam" replays to watch after a fight while drinking beer?
Ok, I'm still bothered by this.. but why does he have a lense on his hand? Do they make "MurderCam" replays to watch after a fight while drinking beer?
Considering that these are Space Wolves...yeah, probably.
Now I'm just waiting for the tide of Wolf haters to flow in and complain about the exposed heads being too Chaos like.
It is pretty fething stupid but like's been said, should be easy to just swap it with Bjorn's front cover shield whatchamacallit.
I am digging that Axe/Shield dread and other than the head thing, I actually really like Murderfang as well. Might have to drop a couple of them in Drop Pods and watch my friends cry and hate me.
EDIT: Hang on a tick, Murderfang is definitely an exposed head but AxeDread looks more like a skull than a mask. Is it possible it's not so much a head as it is a bit of decoration?
I would say that the lens on that arm might be some kind of visual aide for firing the underslung weapon, but his head is poking out. Don't know if he would need assistance or not.
I wonder if this will have the typical dreadnought guns as well. Those 3 variants have 3 different left arms and 3 different right arms, that's already a lot of spare parts, so we might only get the Assault Cannon as the only ranged option.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I wonder if this will have the typical dreadnought guns as well. Those 3 variants have 3 different left arms and 3 different right arms, that's already a lot of spare parts, so we might only get the Assault Cannon as the only ranged option.
Well unless they make a major change on Bjorn there should be a Las-Cannon and Plasma-Cannon.
I also expect one or two Auto-Cannons to get people to buy more kits
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I wonder if this will have the typical dreadnought guns as well. Those 3 variants have 3 different left arms and 3 different right arms, that's already a lot of spare parts, so we might only get the Assault Cannon as the only ranged option.
Well unless they make a major change on Bjorn there should be a Las-Cannon and Plasma-Cannon. I also expect one or two Auto-Cannons to get people to buy more kits
Maybe, I'm just thinking if they have more ranged options in there then they'll have a crap ton of spare arms in the box. Existing dreadnoughts only have 5 arms, this box already has 6 arms that we've seen, the only ranged one being an assault cannon.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I wonder if this will have the typical dreadnought guns as well. Those 3 variants have 3 different left arms and 3 different right arms, that's already a lot of spare parts, so we might only get the Assault Cannon as the only ranged option.
Well unless they make a major change on Bjorn there should be a Las-Cannon and Plasma-Cannon.
I also expect one or two Auto-Cannons to get people to buy more kits
Maybe, I'm just thinking if they have more ranged options in there then they'll have a crap ton of spare arms in the box. Existing dreadnoughts only have 5 arms, this box already has 6 arms that we've seen, the only ranged one being an assault cannon.
More than likely there aren't that many arms, but arm parts. As in you build the arm with what you want.
Is there any chance some kind soul will take pictures of pages 12 and 13 of the Codex (the pages dedicated to the expensive limited editions of the SW Codex)?
dienekes96 wrote: Is there any chance some kind soul will take pictures of pages 12 and 13 of the Codex (the pages dedicated to the expensive limited editions of the SW Codex)?
It would be a kindness.
the rules and points for the new dread would be nice too
also, I hove they come with entirely different arms, not just arm bitz, so i can use the extra with a potential purchase of the FWSW dread.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I wonder if this will have the typical dreadnought guns as well. Those 3 variants have 3 different left arms and 3 different right arms, that's already a lot of spare parts, so we might only get the Assault Cannon as the only ranged option.
Well unless they make a major change on Bjorn there should be a Las-Cannon and Plasma-Cannon.
I also expect one or two Auto-Cannons to get people to buy more kits
Maybe, I'm just thinking if they have more ranged options in there then they'll have a crap ton of spare arms in the box. Existing dreadnoughts only have 5 arms, this box already has 6 arms that we've seen, the only ranged one being an assault cannon.
More than likely there aren't that many arms, but arm parts. As in you build the arm with what you want.
If you have all three images open, (http://latabernadelaurana.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/rumores-imagenes-exclusivas-de-la-nueva.html) and flick between them all the arm components definitely seem to be the same for all of the CCW variants, (Venerable TH, Murderfang Claws and Bjorn Claw), with the actual hand/fist being the variable part. Therefore I would assume that you get only two of the 'shoulder' and 'arm' parts, and all the remaining CCW are extensions. It will certainly be interesting to see if at least the Lascannon and Plasma Cannon are in there for Bjorn at least but I doubt the Autocannons will make an appearance, (more than likely chuck these on a vanilla Dreadnought, if ever). Given the angle its hard to argue but one would assume the ranged weapons are also core and extension parts, (with the 'shoulder' part constant across all CCW and ranged weapons).
Not a fan of Murderfang's exposed head or the Venerable skull either to be honest, but if I eventually get all three I would like to not have them the same Bjorn sarcophagus. Funds permitting I'll pick up a kit alongside the Codex and see if there are any further options (doubtful) or room to easily swap out the heads, (unless they look far cooler in person!)
With regards to release schedule are we to assume we will they have a final hurrah with Logan/Chariot and any further releases, (Harald Deathwolf apparently still on the cards?) one week from Codex? Whilst my wallet screams let it end, my heart begs for even more Wolfy goodness. Would we therefore have Codex releasing alongside the preorder for characters? We've all seen the arguments from both sides and have a preference (models sell models vs. rules sell models) so perhaps this is a compromise, having arguably the 'coolest' or most shocking release first, then moving into the Codex alongside more standard releases? I bought a Stormwolf kit because I simply couldn't say no, but I'll probably wait for the Codex before committing to the Dreadnought kit or any further characters.
As and when we have that bad boy I can finally assemble my Stormclaw sprues and get to work on damage control on my CF/WC terminators, (man oh man do I love disassembling painted models...)
Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote: EDIT: Hang on a tick, Murderfang is definitely an exposed head but AxeDread looks more like a skull than a mask. Is it possible it's not so much a head as it is a bit of decoration?
yeah I already said that it's definitely a decorative wolf skull.
Seriously, guys? We have Murder - "Totally Not Wolverine in a Dreadnought" - Fang. We have a sword and board dread without enough range of motion to actually use it. We're expecting Santa Grimnar.
I agree with what was said previously. This is nearing LCD placating schlock. And it's like the new dreads were just a means to kitbash this:
Spoiler:
It's really sad if they are milking awesome conversions for ideas now. And Av12 Walkers are still Av12 Walkers. If Wolverine and BoardWolf were FA13, then we'd have a discussion, but you're talking about dropping more points in something that's plodding and slow. It can either be kited, or glanced to death like current Av12 Walkers are. They doubled down on dreads, which I can see the allure of the models, but the game play of them is gonna be putting more points into that terrible basket.
I might buy one to make my own version of the amazing dread linked above, but I wouldn't call GW's concepts very original.
pretre wrote: I'm glad that we can agree to disagree on models by making the people who look like it bad. :(
Many things are aimed at lowest common denominator. It's not an insult, it's a marketing strategy. See the current trend of brainless TV as one. Or the generic dumbing down of repetitive first person shooters on consoles. Every market has this to broaden the appeal. If you find it insulting, be insulted by the company for doing so.
I mean, seriously. Murderfang. The dead dude that still has a fleshy head and yellin' n stuff with Wolverine Ice claws. With a skull on the claw. With a lens for an eye. That's placating.
So if you like these models you are brainless? Thank you I guess.
I was just posting on my facebook comunity page about how SW got the best Ven Dread kit. I really like the hand grabing the weapon since he might be able to do stuff while not in battle. Its one of those things that always bugged me about double ranged weapon dreads. There is still a marine inside!
ashikenshin wrote: So if you like these models you are brainless? Thank you I guess.
Does that bother you?
If I like Burger King (I do. I so, so really do), does that make Burger King's food not utter gak?
I like the sword and board Dread, looks pretty cool. Its design and the concept behind it is dumb as hell though.
I think your analogy doesn't work. It's more like: if you like burger king you are an idiot. It doesn't bother me, I'm used to people's hyperbole when talking about stuff on the internet, it's not exclusive to wargaming.
ashikenshin wrote: So if you like these models you are brainless? Thank you I guess.
I guess folks must think every analysis is a personal insult against them? As stated above, liking something that's crap or brainless doesn't mean you're crap or brainless. I like some pretty stupid or terrible things. I've enjoyed me some "Storage Wars." Something like that is placating towards the LCD to get mass appeal. It has nothing to do with anyone as a person.
I think your analogy doesn't work. It's more like: if you like burger king you are an idiot. It doesn't bother me, I'm used to people's hyperbole when talking about stuff on the internet, it's not exclusive to wargaming.
If you knew the food was detrimental to your health and longevity due to using the basest ingredients possible but use synthesized chemicals to have the widest appeal to people by eliciting certain nuero-chemical responses and still said "hey, it's not crap at all!" then yah, you'd be kinda foolish. Fast/Processed food is designed to do just that. It's scientifically made to appeal to the widest tastes to garner more sales. It's made for the lowest common denominator. Not insulting, just a fact.
And I point to "Murderfang" and say "Yep, placating to the crowd." Not some awesome viking name. No, something more akin to dethklok with some Marvel thrown in.
I think your analogy doesn't work. It's more like: if you like burger king you are an idiot. It doesn't bother me, I'm used to people's hyperbole when talking about stuff on the internet, it's not exclusive to wargaming.
If you knew the food was detrimental to your health and longevity due to using the basest ingredients possible but use synthesized chemicals to have the widest appeal to people by eliciting certain nuero-chemical responses and still said "hey, it's not crap at all!" then yah, you'd be kinda foolish. Fast/Processed food is designed to do just that. It's scientifically made to appeal to the widest tastes to garner more sales. It's made for the lowest common denominator. Not insulting, just a fact.
And I point to "Murderfang" and say "Yep, placating to the crowd." Not some awesome viking name. No, something more akin to dethklok with some Marvel thrown in.
You see why your food analogy doesn't work? Also going by the responses in this thread the murderthing is the least liked, so even less common denominator.
Nah dude, what is happening is a difference of opinion on a plastic toy, and people who don't like it say things like: aimed at 12 yo and brainless gw crackheads. You don't like it? fine, but going the extra bit is a little OTTIMO.
I'm going back and forth with the stormfang thing, I like it sometimes and the I think it looks pretty stupid. I think it's GW paint job that doesn't do the model any favors. I shall wait until I see this model and the stormfang painte by the community to decide if i want to buy them
pretre wrote: I'm glad that we can agree to disagree on models by making the people who look like it bad. :(
Many things are aimed at lowest common denominator. It's not an insult, it's a marketing strategy. See the current trend of brainless TV as one. Or the generic dumbing down of repetitive first person shooters on consoles. Every market has this to broaden the appeal. If you find it insulting, be insulted by the company for doing so.
I mean, seriously. Murderfang. The dead dude that still has a fleshy head and yellin' n stuff with Wolverine Ice claws. With a skull on the claw. With a lens for an eye. That's placating.
I think equating reality TV with plastic miniatures is a failed road here pal. And if you don't think it's insulting to tell someone that they are the lowest common denominator, I don't know what to tell you.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Obviously, Murderfang is too high-brow for some.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Obviously, Murderfang is too high-brow for some.
And I'm not insulting anyone. I have not said "That dude with the Sisters Avatar sure is a childish poo head for liking robot Wolfy McStab-Stab." No, I've said they are designing mass appeal models for the lowest common denominator. Again, if you are insulted, it's because you are projecting your self worth through plastic toys.
I hate doing this, but Dictionary:
the lowest common denominator -the large number of people in society who will accept low-quality products and entertainment. The problem with so much television is that it aims at the lowest common denominator. http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/the+lowest+common+denominator
Its okay, he only indirectly insulted you. That just means he is sharing an opinion!! Dont you know there is no reason to get offended as long as the insult is indirect.
Actually, I'm kind of getting on board with the exposed head thing. Maybe fashion some kind of protective window bubble and paint a skull or maybe some kind of "protective runes" on it.
Leth wrote: Its okay, he only indirectly insulted you. That just means he is sharing an opinion!! Dont you know there is no reason to get offended as long as the insult is indirect.
Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote: Actually, I'm kind of getting on board with the exposed head thing. Maybe fashion some kind of protective window bubble and paint a skull or maybe some kind of "protective runes" on it.
I think ive got some vehicle bitz that will make a cool facemask with a slit, almost like a welders mask that I will end up using, probably magnetize it so he could take it off or something nifty.
Hey, great, calling GW out on their marketing is now insulting. Hooray? Thanks for being realistic.
And for every "Murderfang" they make, that's one less box of Wulven or a new Ragnar model we could get. Both are something which many wolves players have wanted.
Also, if the exposed head bothers you -- and it does me -- look! It's REALLY easy to cut off. You don't even need to be an Ork wiv a choppa, swarming up those legs to save his comrades, even if he might die in the 'splosion. You could do it with a modelling knife. At worst you might cut your thumb a bit. It'll be OK.
Ian Sturrock wrote: Also, if the exposed head bothers you -- and it does me -- look! It's REALLY easy to cut off. You don't even need to be an Ork wiv a choppa, swarming up those legs to save his comrades, even if he might die in the 'splosion. You could do it with a modelling knife. At worst you might cut your thumb a bit. It'll be OK.
I think the point of the matter is Mr. Fang is really only murdering the fluff rather than anything else, given how Walkers perform on the table. That's what folks are getting with when it comes to the model. Kinda like cutting off the nose to spite the face by introducing something like it in general.
TheKbob wrote: Hey, great, calling GW out on their marketing is now insulting. Hooray? Thanks for being realistic.
And for every "Murderfang" they make, that's one less box of Wulven or a new Ragnar model we could get. Both are something which many wolves players have wanted.
Okay, let's make this real clear for the players at home:
Not insulting: "I do not like the Murderfang model. I think the exposed head is unrealistic and there are enough dreads already. They could have spent the time and energy making new plastic wulfen."
Insulting: "The murderfang model is made so only the lowest common denominator will enjoy it. Oh you like it? Funny coincidence. Also, I'm totally not calling you a poo head or saying you only find worth in plastic toys. Because that would be insulting and I don't want to do that."
Passively insulting people is still insulting them.
Lastly, although you wanted Wulfen and Ragnar more than a new vendread or a flyer, who are you to speak for 'what many wolf players want'?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ian Sturrock wrote: Also, if the exposed head bothers you -- and it does me -- look! It's REALLY easy to cut off. You don't even need to be an Ork wiv a choppa, swarming up those legs to save his comrades, even if he might die in the 'splosion. You could do it with a modelling knife. At worst you might cut your thumb a bit. It'll be OK.
This! If I field murderfang, it'll probably just be with an arm swam on the included ven dread torso (with the cool skull trophy bit).
TheKbob wrote: Hey, great, calling GW out on their marketing is now insulting. Hooray? Thanks for being realistic.
And for every "Murderfang" they make, that's one less box of Wulven or a new Ragnar model we could get. Both are something which many wolves players have wanted.
Okay, let's make this real clear for the players at home:
Not insulting: "I do not like the Murderfang model. I think the exposed head is unrealistic and there are enough dreads already. They could have spent the time and energy making new plastic wulfen."
Insulting: "The murderfang model is made so only the lowest common denominator will enjoy it. Oh you like it? Funny coincidence. Also, I'm totally not calling you a poo head or saying you only find worth in plastic toys. Because that would be insulting and I don't want to do that."
Passively insulting people is still insulting them.
Lastly, although you wanted Wulfen and Ragnar more than a new vendread or a flyer, who are you to speak for 'what many wolf players want'?
As being a wolf player and knowing many, the general consensus was "why aren't we given a flyer?" and "where's our character updates and wulfen models?" Since the latter existed but was stopped and are ridiculously expensive in the aftermarket, it seems like a major missed opportunity given there's a demand. And the rules leaks so far would say these dreads are terrible. We already know Bjorn is overcosted nonsense and you can only guess that any dread with an invulnerable save is going UP in points cost. Given that it will still be Av12, it will die like most dreads do: saturation of S7 glancing fire power. Now it will be an even bigger hit. I do like the sword and board model to some extent, but I'd modify to make it a bit more "realistic" in it's ability to fight.
And I am not insulting anyone, again. The Wolverine model is totally a lowest common denominator placation and if you find it insulting, then you are, again, self projecting through a toy. I like lowest common denominator stuff, too. Does it make me any less intelligent or less of a person? No. Spade a spade. I would say grow thicker skin if something like that insults you, more so when the person has said multiple time, with dictionary reference and apt analogies of how companies goal is to market to the LCD, that goal is not to offend. It's like folks today take facts personally when it goes against their beliefs.
Unless I missed a post somewhere, do we actually know what AV the new dreads are? I see no reason why the named dreads couldn't have a higher AV than 12. Just because Bjorn in the past topped out at 12, there is a chance that the new one might be different. And a named dread... well the sky is the limit on this guy.
With luck GW will have realized that dreads were over priced to start with and will price them down accordingly. Also realizing that while a stormshield will protect against 2/3 of the hits, they can still be one shotted to death with the right weapons and will never have the staying power of a MC.
And while I disagree that Murderfang and his weapons and abilities are being marketed towards the lowest common denominator, I do think that it is being marketed towards GWs chosen target audience. 12-14 year old boys. Its obvious that GW cares nothing for the veteran gamers or people who actually enjoy a heavier thought process when it comes to cleaver titles and naming conventions.
Jayden63 wrote: Unless I missed a post somewhere, do we actually know what AV the new dreads are? I see no reason why the named dreads couldn't have a higher AV than 12. Just because Bjorn in the past topped out at 12, there is a chance that the new one might be different. And a named dread... well the sky is the limit on this guy.
With luck GW will have realized that dreads were over priced to start with and will price them down accordingly. Also realizing that while a stormshield will protect against 2/3 of the hits, they can still be one shotted to death with the right weapons and will never have the staying power of a MC.
And while I disagree that Murderfang and his weapons and abilities are being marketed towards the lowest common denominator, I do think that it is being marketed towards GWs chosen target audience. 12-14 year old boys. Its obvious that GW cares nothing for the veteran gamers or people who actually enjoy a heavier thought process when it comes to cleaver titles and naming conventions.
From a money making aspect, why should they? Its obvious the veteran players, and any players who are savvy enough to have reached out to the community who promotes not buying GW alone, making your own things Kitbashing and such?
If a 12 year old runs by a shop sees something called "Murderfang" or sees a big Space Wolf poster they aren't going to think twice. Where as a vet of the game with grimace and shake his/her head and wait a few weeks to buy it it they buy it at all.
Oh look, another goddamn plastic Space Marine Dreadnought kit. I guess Normal Dreadnought, Starter Dreadnought, Siege Dreadnought, Old Dreadnought, Blood Dreadnought, Evil Dreadnought and Evil Starter Dreadnought weren't enough damn Dreadnoughts, so they devoted some more of their mould-cutting budget to add Old Wolf Dreadnought to their lineup.
TheKbob wrote: Hey, great, calling GW out on their marketing is now insulting. Hooray? Thanks for being realistic.
And for every "Murderfang" they make, that's one less box of Wulven or a new Ragnar model we could get. Both are something which many wolves players have wanted.
Okay, let's make this real clear for the players at home:
Not insulting: "I do not like the Murderfang model. I think the exposed head is unrealistic and there are enough dreads already. They could have spent the time and energy making new plastic wulfen."
Insulting: "The murderfang model is made so only the lowest common denominator will enjoy it. Oh you like it? Funny coincidence. Also, I'm totally not calling you a poo head or saying you only find worth in plastic toys. Because that would be insulting and I don't want to do that."
Passively insulting people is still insulting them.
No one cares. Any negative opinion you give on something that has a fandom is passively insulting to the fandom.
"I don't like the Eldar codex. It's too powerful and it takes little skill to win with it."
The implication is that Eldar players don't win their matches with superior skill.
insaniak wrote: So... Murderfang looks ok. I do like the blinged-up look for Space Wolf dreads.
Bjorn is still rocking.
The axe-dread looks ridiculous. The storm shield is awesome, but dreads holding oversized weapons in their fists just looks wrong. It can work on the Contemptor chassis, but on regular dreads they just look awkward. Would much rather have seen the axe built into the elbow joint, replacing the hand.
Why does a dreadnought need an axe anyway? The year 999 of the 41st millennium sure is an innovative year.. with all these space marine chapters coming up with new vehicles all the sudden! It's not like the same forgeworlds make all the SM stuff or anything, I wonder which FW develops "dreadnoughts with exposed heads" ?
Is it just me who thinks that the murderfang claws are way cooler than Bjorns claw? Bjorns claw looks stiff, he can probably rotate it though (if you imagine he was real) which would look cool, but otherwise it seems murderfangs claws would be superior in real battle.
The look of the claws is fine, but the name, the lore, and the dislocated head poking out are all just unrelentingly stupid. Murderfang with Murderclaws with Murderlust.
I like the idea of a Dreadnought with a storm shield, although the model leaves something to be desired. Still, I'm guessing the next Codex: Space Marines will feature Dreadnoughts with storm shields. Then the following Chaos release will bring Dreadnoughts with storm shields that only work in close combat, and can only be taken in conjunction with an Ordnance weapon.
DOOMONYOU wrote: For everyone saying Bjorn is AV 12, He is 13/12/10. If that changes anything
Completely forgot about that but he's only Init 3 but regular dreadnought and Ven Dread are Init 4? Guess it takes the old boy a minute to get his head sorted.
Kirasu wrote: Why does a dreadnought need an axe anyway? The year 999 of the 41st millennium sure is an innovative year.. with all these space marine chapters coming up with new vehicles all the sudden! It's not like the same forgeworlds make all the SM stuff or anything, I wonder which FW develops "dreadnoughts with exposed heads" ?
DOOMONYOU wrote: For everyone saying Bjorn is AV 12, He is 13/12/10. If that changes anything
Yeah he just needs more Hull points.
The Shield dread is the big question to me. What does it do? If it is indeed a 3++(I just don't see it being that good), then it will take on average almost 45 S7 BS4 shots to strip 3 HP from it at Armor 12. Now that's a dreadnought.
I find the idea of his strength being lower than a marine sergeant with a power fist to be kinda sad. Granted, he has the Shred thing going for him, but you'd think with DCCW/Power Fists under those claws that he'd do better than S7.
The whole fluff sounds silly. Curseborn prophecy... the fact the Space Wolves forgot the dude's name... the fact they "unleash" it then have to freeze it and put it away. Sounds like bad fan fiction.
But still, a Dread with 8 to 10 attacks on the charge is pretty crazy. Shame it'll never reach combat because it'll be blown away long before then.
Curseborn Prophecy They forgot his name He apparently "bites" the enemy The Space Wolves have to freeze him after each battle and thaw him out for the next one
I'm guessing that would be... with his MurderTeeth
You'd think that some crafty techpriest would have figured out a way to put a remote-controlled off-button in the machine, though, so they wouldn't have to gun him down every time.
There's pretty much one thing to explain all the bad fluff and poor design decisions at GW: the designers seem to have a tight 'new products' schedule to keep, which results in grabbing any first thing that comes to their mind and pushing it forward to production. Seems to be very little time to develop a tight concept before starting the sculpts.
Seriously though... I don't see how any SW army doesn't take that in a pod in every list. It's ludicrously good for its points cost.
Even if it's a one-turn fire magnet who cares? It's cheap enough to keep the heat off drop podding grey hunters on turn one and still a pretty tough nut to crack with it will not die.
135 points isn't too shabby (up in the corner of the page for people that didn't notice). Guess I could do what Anpu42 said and pod him in with a couple of the new axe/shield dreads.
Auswin's right, this codex is scary... AND I LOVE IT!
TheKbob wrote: Hey, great, calling GW out on their marketing is now insulting. Hooray? Thanks for being realistic.
And for every "Murderfang" they make, that's one less box of Wulven or a new Ragnar model we could get. Both are something which many wolves players have wanted.
It's an absolute joke to make a "new" Ragnar out of bits from the Space Wolves Pack.
And why do you need a box of Wulfen if they're not a unit choice?
Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote: 135 points isn't too shabby (up in the corner of the page for people that didn't notice). Guess I could do what Anpu42 said and pod him in with a couple of the new axe/shield dreads.
Auswin's right, this codex is scary... AND I LOVE IT!
Yeah I did notice the price. It's basically just going to be a bullet magnet that never reaches combat, but maybe will sacrifice itself sufficiently to let something else get in to combat.
The whole fluff sounds silly. Curseborn prophecy... the fact the Space Wolves forgot the dude's name... the fact they "unleash" it then have to freeze it and put it away. Sounds like bad fan fiction.
But still, a Dread with 8 to 10 attacks on the charge is pretty crazy. Shame it'll never reach combat because it'll be blown away long before then.
Well, he is pretty cheap for his stats.
So there are 3 scenarios
A) He dies, but allows another unit to engage the enemy, thus not letting the 135 points go entirely to waste
B) He manages to get into combat with something important and tears the enemy apart, thus earning his 135 points
C) He dies horribly; get's immobilized and mocked; tarpitted, etc, thus wasting the 135 points.
So.. its worse than a deathcompany dreadnought and a furioso. Not sure why people think this is a good thing... AV12 and no fleet on a CC dreadnought? Bleh, looks like it'll stay on the FLGS shelf.
Kirasu wrote: So.. its worse than a deathcompany dreadnought and a furioso. Not sure why people think this is a good thing... AV12 and no fleet on a CC dreadnought? Bleh, looks like it'll stay on the FLGS shelf.
Glad GW keeps pumping out dreadnoughts!
I'd take Murderfang over a Furioso or DC dread any day of the week.
A Furioso with claws is 125 pts. It has one extra point of WS, front armor and S6 AP3 claws. If it manages to thirst it's S7 on the charge. Murderfang is 10 pts more for S7 , AP2 (S8 on the charge), more attacks, it will not die, ignoring stunned/shaken, and rampage -- which it will almost always get.
Don't have the DC dread stats in front of me, but if I remember correctly it's still S6, AP3 -- which is a killer compared to the Murderfang claws.
Kirasu wrote: So.. its worse than a deathcompany dreadnought and a furioso. Not sure why people think this is a good thing... AV12 and no fleet on a CC dreadnought? Bleh, looks like it'll stay on the FLGS shelf.
Glad GW keeps pumping out dreadnoughts!
I'd take Murderfang over a Furioso or DC dread any day of the week.
A Furioso with claws is 125 pts. It has one extra point of WS, front armor and S6 AP3 claws. If it manages to thirst it's S7 on the charge. Murderfang is 10 pts more for S7 , AP2 (S8 on the charge), more attacks, it will not die, ignoring stunned/shaken, and rampage -- which it will almost always get.
Don't have the DC dread stats in front of me, but if I remember correctly it's still S6, AP3 -- which is a killer compared to the Murderfang claws.
It could have 2000 attacks and it wouldnt matter because its AV12 with no fleet.. CC dreads with base movement don't work, and haven't worked since pretty much the inception of 40k.. Furioso is also pretty terrible, at least the DC dread has Fleet. AP2 only matters against 2+ saves, so against vast majority of units I much rather have blood talons. In either case, won't matter since it's slow and easy to kill.
The whole fluff sounds silly. Curseborn prophecy... the fact the Space Wolves forgot the dude's name... the fact they "unleash" it then have to freeze it and put it away. Sounds like bad fan fiction.
But still, a Dread with 8 to 10 attacks on the charge is pretty crazy. Shame it'll never reach combat because it'll be blown away long before then.
Well, he is pretty cheap for his stats.
So there are 3 scenarios
A) He dies, but allows another unit to engage the enemy, thus not letting the 135 points go entirely to waste
B) He manages to get into combat with something important and tears the enemy apart, thus earning his 135 points
C) He dies horribly; get's immobilized and mocked; tarpitted, etc, thus wasting the 135 points.
I feel like B is almost never going to happen. Either C, enemy gets a lucky shot (you only need a 4+ on an AP1 weapon to make it useless) and that's it, or A, it takes a few shots to kill it, thus it takes some heat off other things.
I know that's not "bad", I would just like it if these close combat monsters actually, ya know, had a chance of getting in to combat outside of your enemy being ignorant or just very unlucky.
Kirasu wrote: So.. its worse than a deathcompany dreadnought and a furioso. Not sure why people think this is a good thing... AV12 and no fleet on a CC dreadnought? Bleh, looks like it'll stay on the FLGS shelf.
Glad GW keeps pumping out dreadnoughts!
I'd take Murderfang over a Furioso or DC dread any day of the week.
A Furioso with claws is 125 pts. It has one extra point of WS, front armor and S6 AP3 claws. If it manages to thirst it's S7 on the charge. Murderfang is 10 pts more for S7 , AP2 (S8 on the charge), more attacks, it will not die, ignoring stunned/shaken, and rampage -- which it will almost always get.
Don't have the DC dread stats in front of me, but if I remember correctly it's still S6, AP3 -- which is a killer compared to the Murderfang claws.
It could have 2000 attacks and it wouldnt matter because its AV12 with no fleet.. CC dreads with base movement don't work, and haven't worked since pretty much the inception of 40k.. Furioso is also pretty terrible, at least the DC dread has Fleet. AP2 only matters against 2+ saves, so against vast majority of units I much rather have blood talons. In either case, won't matter since it's slow and easy to kill.
Yes if you walk it across the field and/or give in no support. I have been able to get most of my dreads into Close Combat.
They way the new assault rules work i would assume he is a camping objective protector or counter charge unit for whatever feels it is neceesary to get close enough. Maybe if dreads could assault out of a pod instead of having to wait to apperntly take their seatbelts off it would be better.
I am more interested to see the rules for the storm shield Dread, as that one seems to be the one I'm most likely to use (as it has less chance of just getting blown up the moment my opponent has a clean shot at it).
I don't think it's as simple as saying give him support.
To clarify, he is going to be one of the highest target priorities because 1) He is strong in assault 2) He dies easy to shooting.
It doesn't matter if you pod him, it doesn't matter if he has some Dreadbros walking by him. He is going to be the one shot first.
You could give him a FW Drop pod, and then he has a cover save while he sits and waits for the ridiculous no assault when you DS rules to wear off. Which is what I'll be doing.
Yeah, giving him support just means other things might make it in to combat while he dies instead of him just dying by himself, the end result is still him dying. Unless your opponent really has no clue how easy he is to kill and how much damage he'll do if they don't kill him.
Bulldogging wrote: I don't think it's as simple as saying give him support.
To clarify, he is going to be one of the highest target priorities because 1) He is strong in assault 2) He dies easy to shooting.
It doesn't matter if you pod him, it doesn't matter if he has some Dreadbros walking by him. He is going to be the one shot first.
You could give him a FW Drop pod, and then he has a cover save while he sits and waits for the ridiculous no assault when you DS rules to wear off. Which is what I'll be doing.
Yes it is all about target priority, this is my example:
Turn one 5 Pods Land
1] Murderfang
2] Venerable Dreadnaught with Storm Shield
3] 10 man Wolf Guard with lots of Combi-Weapons and a few Storm Shield
4] Grey Hunter Pack with Multiple Plasma Weapons
5] Grey Hunter Pack with Flamers
Down the field you have some TWC, more Grey Hunters and Logan with his Sled. Long Fangs with a Rune Priest. On a Landing pad is a Stormwolf filled with Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest.
In reserve are 4 more pods Filled with more Wolf Guard and Grey Hunters
Seriously though... I don't see how any SW army doesn't take that in a pod in every list. It's ludicrously good for its points cost.
Even if it's a one-turn fire magnet who cares? It's cheap enough to keep the heat off drop podding grey hunters on turn one and still a pretty tough nut to crack with it will not die.
Ugh... this codex scares me.
It's 135 points. You play Dark Eldar. Just charge it with 10 Wyches with Haywire Grenades and watch it crumble
Seriously though... I don't see how any SW army doesn't take that in a pod in every list. It's ludicrously good for its points cost.
Even if it's a one-turn fire magnet who cares? It's cheap enough to keep the heat off drop podding grey hunters on turn one and still a pretty tough nut to crack with it will not die.
Ugh... this codex scares me.
Yeah, as a Nids player, I can see the major value of using Murderfang as a fire magnet. Between him, my TWC and my Wolf Lord's Termie retinue, my troops should be able to march onto objectives with ease.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm glad that Murderfang, for all its insane rage, still has the tactical acumen to effectively use a Searchlight.
Yeah what's the point of that? He's probably never going to be able to shoot anything that far out, but at least it lights up a unit for the rest of the army to shoot.
Bulldogging wrote: I don't think it's as simple as saying give him support.
To clarify, he is going to be one of the highest target priorities because 1) He is strong in assault 2) He dies easy to shooting.
It doesn't matter if you pod him, it doesn't matter if he has some Dreadbros walking by him. He is going to be the one shot first.
You could give him a FW Drop pod, and then he has a cover save while he sits and waits for the ridiculous no assault when you DS rules to wear off. Which is what I'll be doing.
Yes it is all about target priority, this is my example:
Turn one 5 Pods Land
1] Murderfang
2] Venerable Dreadnaught with Storm Shield
3] 10 man Wolf Guard with lots of Combi-Weapons and a few Storm Shield
4] Grey Hunter Pack with Multiple Plasma Weapons
5] Grey Hunter Pack with Flamers
Down the field you have some TWC, more Grey Hunters and Logan with his Sled. Long Fangs with a Rune Priest. On a Landing pad is a Stormwolf filled with Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest.
In reserve are 4 more pods Filled with more Wolf Guard and Grey Hunters
The Murderfang is your 1st Priority?
Given what you describe sounds like about 3000pts, Murderfang might not be priority #1 given it consists of less than 5% of your points, but for whatever anti-tank weapons you have lying around he's high enough priority that he won't get in to combat.
That's the thing, he's not that hard to kill that he needs to be priority #1, it's not like a Wraithknight or Imperial Knight or whatever that you have to throw a ton of firepower at to bring down before he reaches combat.
There's a reason people think Dreadnoughts suck, especially close combat Dreadnoughts. They're just too easy to kill.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm glad that Murderfang, for all its insane rage, still has the tactical acumen to effectively use a Searchlight.
Yeah what's the point of that? He's probably never going to be able to shoot anything that far out, but at least it lights up a unit for the rest of the army to shoot.
I acts like a laser pointer to see what enemy he is going for.
Bulldogging wrote: I don't think it's as simple as saying give him support.
To clarify, he is going to be one of the highest target priorities because 1) He is strong in assault 2) He dies easy to shooting.
It doesn't matter if you pod him, it doesn't matter if he has some Dreadbros walking by him. He is going to be the one shot first.
You could give him a FW Drop pod, and then he has a cover save while he sits and waits for the ridiculous no assault when you DS rules to wear off. Which is what I'll be doing.
Yes it is all about target priority, this is my example:
Spoiler:
Turn one 5 Pods Land
1] Murderfang
2] Venerable Dreadnaught with Storm Shield
3] 10 man Wolf Guard with lots of Combi-Weapons and a few Storm Shield
4] Grey Hunter Pack with Multiple Plasma Weapons
5] Grey Hunter Pack with Flamers
Down the field you have some TWC, more Grey Hunters and Logan with his Sled. Long Fangs with a Rune Priest. On a Landing pad is a Stormwolf filled with Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest.
In reserve are 4 more pods Filled with more Wolf Guard and Grey Hunters
The Murderfang is your 1st Priority?
Given what you describe sounds like about 3000pts, Murderfang might not be priority #1 given it consists of less than 5% of your points, but for whatever anti-tank weapons you have lying around he's high enough priority that he won't get in to combat.
That's the thing, he's not that hard to kill that he needs to be priority #1, it's not like a Wraithknight or Imperial Knight or whatever that you have to throw a ton of firepower at to bring down before he reaches combat.
There's a reason people think Dreadnoughts suck, especially close combat Dreadnoughts. They're just too easy to kill.
Yes they are easy to kill, but I have seen to many people just throw one out there and him go.
Even if I want to 5 starting pods one a 2k list if it take more than one unit to take him down that is firepower not pointed at other things. Putting the 3++ Venerable Dread and the Murderfang along with Wolf Guard Terminators in your face on Turn 1 should give me a good chance of 1/3 of your available firepower going at him.
I do this now with my Dreadnaught supported Loganwing. With the proper use of terrain [Including my own Pods] I can cut Available Firepower in half if not by a 1/3.
Seriously though... I don't see how any SW army doesn't take that in a pod in every list. It's ludicrously good for its points cost.
Even if it's a one-turn fire magnet who cares? It's cheap enough to keep the heat off drop podding grey hunters on turn one and still a pretty tough nut to crack with it will not die.
Ugh... this codex scares me.
It's 135 points. You play Dark Eldar. Just charge it with 10 Wyches with Haywire Grenades and watch it crumble
Until it drop pods in, heavy flames the Raider killing a bunch of them and possibly exploding the transport in the process.
FWIW, 10 Wyches in a Raider with Haywire is 180 pts. A Murderfang in a Drop Pod is 170.
I have a feeling the dread's stormshields are only going to be 5++ or 4++, at best. Considering Contemptors have 5++ against shooting and they use older (and therefore better, in 40k land) cybernetics in their invulnerable saves than Storm Shields means I doubt we'll be seeing 3++ dreads running around any time soon.
Murderfang does look scary, though. It'll be high up on the 'melta in the face' list for sure.
Crazyterran wrote: I have a feeling the dread's stormshields are only going to be 5++ or 4++, at best. Considering Contemptors have 5++ against shooting and they use older (and therefore better, in 40k land) cybernetics in their invulnerable saves than Storm Shields means I doubt we'll be seeing 3++ dreads running around any time soon.
Murderfang does look scary, though. It'll be high up on the 'melta in the face' list for sure.
Wait, they don't remember his name? Can't they just ask Bjorn? "Oh yeah, that's Steve Ticklefingers, he was the pack clown back in the day. No one could short sheet a wolf bunk like Steverino! Now back to my nap."
Seriously though... I don't see how any SW army doesn't take that in a pod in every list. It's ludicrously good for its points cost.
Even if it's a one-turn fire magnet who cares? It's cheap enough to keep the heat off drop podding grey hunters on turn one and still a pretty tough nut to crack with it will not die.
Ugh... this codex scares me.
It's 135 points. You play Dark Eldar. Just charge it with 10 Wyches with Haywire Grenades and watch it crumble
Until it drop pods in, heavy flames the Raider killing a bunch of them and possibly exploding the transport in the process.
FWIW, 10 Wyches in a Raider with Haywire is 180 pts. A Murderfang in a Drop Pod is 170.
This comparison would probably fit better back in 5th edition.. now it's just "cc unit that dies to everything" and "slow cc unit". We can compare the murder fang to bad units all day long. .doesn't make it more useful tho
(but probably it only makes the bearer wulfen which is lame)
Dreadnoughts!
