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Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 13:25:39


Post by: Cephalobeard


Trust me, makes me sad as well. I just built and painted my 30th Screamer. Unless things change, I likely won't use them again. WS4 and only 3 attacks on them, at S4 (5 w/ a Herald) makes them about as pillow fisted as a ham sandwhich.

Exalted Flamers and Heralds will be my special boys for now.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 14:19:28


Post by: Malisteen


while pillow-fisted, they're fast enough to tag enemy non-flying shooty units, dampening incoming fire against the rest of your army as the tagged unit is forced to withdraw. Bubble wrapping of course limits this, but still.

.............

Also, Marked Dreadclaws and Kharybdis Assault Claws can transport like-aligned daemon infantry. I'm not sure how much this helps given that the claws are pretty expensive, but the option to take a transport might help bloodletters, smite-spamming heralds, or the like.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 14:32:05


Post by: labmouse42


 Cephalobeard wrote:

The power of the Changeling is NOT to be understated, giving things -1 to hit is incredibly powerful.

Army wide 4++ is also crazy. AP, Cover, none if it matters. I go where I want and do what I want.
These two things are huge, and something that a lot of people don't fully understand.

The -1 to hit gets better with armies that hit less often. For example, it halves the amount of damage you take when someone hits you normally on a 5+.
It's 50% less damage when a unit hits a on 4+, like a marine heavy weapon that has moved.
It's 33% less damage from units that hit on a 3+. This is still rock solid.

The 4++ is just slightly less effective than the nurgle 5+ with DR. DR has some perks (like being able to be rolled vs mortal wounds) but when combined with changing, the resilience on Tzeentch is better.

 Malisteen wrote:
while pillow-fisted, they're fast enough to tag enemy non-flying shooty units, dampening incoming fire against the rest of your army as the tagged unit is forced to withdraw. Bubble wrapping of course limits this, but still.
Nurglings can do a similar job for a lower cost.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 15:14:51


Post by: Cephalobeard


 Malisteen wrote:
while pillow-fisted, they're fast enough to tag enemy non-flying shooty units, dampening incoming fire against the rest of your army as the tagged unit is forced to withdraw. Bubble wrapping of course limits this, but still.



I would rather just use more horrors. They're more bodies, the same saves, and 1/4th or 1/3rd the price.

My list is, almost exclusively, also Characters now at this point. It's very effective.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 15:43:24


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Thoughts on using Maelific Lords (30pt R&H charaxter) to summon waves of brimstones into position to cover fast moving characters as you go?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 16:16:04


Post by: labmouse42


 Cephalobeard wrote:
My list is, almost exclusively, also Characters now at this point. It's very effective.
What is the list you are currently running?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 17:05:02


Post by: Cephalobeard


 labmouse42 wrote:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
My list is, almost exclusively, also Characters now at this point. It's very effective.
What is the list you are currently running?


8x Disc Heralds, Staves
11x Exalted Flamers
6x 1 Blue 9 Brimstones
Changeling

140 points left over for summoning.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 17:56:28


Post by: labmouse42


Yea, I only have 4 disc heralds and 4 exalted flamers. I'm pretty far from that setup.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 18:07:24


Post by: Galef


Why Discs instead Chariots? It seems a very small increase in points for double the durability and extra attacks (screamers). Dropping 2 Disc herald gets you the points to upgrade the other 6 to Chariots and adds a bit more melee bite.

Side question: If you were to run Chariots, would you take Heralds or E-flamer chariots?
Heralds have Smite, but E-Flamers have shooting (and thus overwatch). Both have about the same melee.
The biggest difference I see is that the Herald retains <Character> on the chariot, whereas the E-flamer does not, but is cheaper

-


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 18:35:52


Post by: Cephalobeard


Discs are cheaper. That's the only reason why.

Realistically they're probably going to die quickly even if they get caught up, so I opted for more characters and more smites, as none of them will ever be able to be targetted by shooting as long as a horror or flamer is in front of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
When you can already move 12 +Advance and still smite, as well as having staves, they have a 36+d6 Threat range for their smite, adding a little extra movement isn't a huge deal.

I'd rather have more bodies and more spells.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 18:47:21


Post by: labmouse42


They also have a much smaller footprint. that can be an advantage, as you can pack more into a smaller area.

If you are trying to get that aura buff, the larger footprint is userful, but that does not appear to be the goal here.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 18:47:52


Post by: zephel


 labmouse42 wrote:
 Vexler wrote:
Played today with 10 Nurgle DPs with Epidemius army againts ravenwing DA twice - and won twice by wiping out my opponent; on 3rd round in 1st game without a single DP killed and on 4th in 2nd game, with only 1 DP killed.
What can I say? I ain't even mad.
My thoughts, thou:
1) Smite isn't as scary as they say - yeah, it's *quite* powerful, but not *that* powerful
2) Warp bolters have disappointed me, really - 2 DMG is good, But only STR 4 and 2 shots - that's too little for too much. Dropping 10 bolters would give me spare 90 points
3) Epidemius was good, but, well, probably good - I didn't even looked at the tally as DP raped everything in sight without it.
I'm thinking of going with some nurgling support and going with 9 princes.

There are some rough matches. Triple knights will suck -- esp with a chainsword. The biggest thing that has hurt my princes have been multi-wound weapons. A weapon that does a flat 6 wounds is scary. 2 hits and a prince goes down.
TONS of bodies would also be rough. 70 attacks a turn don't really help if you are only killing 20 brimstones a turn. Guard can also spam conscripts to do the same thing.

That's why I don't think it's a GT winning army. You might just have a bad matchup and lose.
But for RTT or local games it's hell on heels.


I did this past weekend something similar. 9 dps of nurgle + belakor + 7 nurglings. got Third because of time on first match was tie and the guy I played against didn't understand the whole consolidate rule and I didn't feel like like going through the whole explaination when time was already called and just settled for the tie score. From there, the last two folk I just boarded. 3rd out of 18 with a list that hasn't suffered a loss yet? Yea I think I feel alright with it.

I've tried considering epid for th elist but the princes don't benefit till further down the list and if you reached the poitn where you are benefitting, then more often then not you are close to boarding or wrecking who you are goign up against at least that's how I've seen in the games that I have had so far.

Honestly considering though dropping belakor, nurglings, and 2 princes for Aetos >: D


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 18:57:00


Post by: Cephalobeard


 labmouse42 wrote:
They also have a much smaller footprint. that can be an advantage, as you can pack more into a smaller area.

If you are trying to get that aura buff, the larger footprint is userful, but that does not appear to be the goal here.


More bodies under the changeling, more smites, more things to tie up other units to prevent shooting, etc.

Not counting melee, if would take 4 knights 3 Turns of killing JUST EXALTED FLAMERS before they could ever target a Herald, minimum.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 19:35:28


Post by: Galef


 Cephalobeard wrote:
 labmouse42 wrote:
They also have a much smaller footprint. that can be an advantage, as you can pack more into a smaller area.

If you are trying to get that aura buff, the larger footprint is userful, but that does not appear to be the goal here.


More bodies under the changeling, more smites, more things to tie up other units to prevent shooting, etc.

Not counting melee, if would take 4 knights 3 Turns of killing JUST EXALTED FLAMERS before they could ever target a Herald, minimum.

So just to clarify, Heralds on Chariots also cannot be targeted. They are still <Characters> with less than 10 wounds.

But otherwise I see what you are saying. If you are spamming Heralds, the Disc is ideal. Even though it isn't that much more for the Chariot, it adds up with 5+ Heralds
I was just thinking about taking 2, so the Chariots seemed a more obvious choice.

-


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 19:38:58


Post by: Virules


So far in 8th I have only played Nurgle Epidemius lists and it has been a lot of fun. For my 2k list at some upcoming tournaments, I am turn between spending my final ~300 points on a) a GUO + 3x Nurglings (I already have several squads) or b) a second block of 30x Plague Bearers with icon and instrument (I already have a block of 30).


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 19:39:33


Post by: Nightlord1987


GUO, Are they worth it over taking a Daemon Prince of Nurgle? I really wanna field a Cultist/Zombie force led by a GUO, but it seems like anything He can do a DP does cheaper and faster, and doesn't degrade when taking wounds... Help the Fat Man find his place in my lists. They're themed fluff lists anyway but the GUO always seemed like more of a handicap. Especially since I can't drop him, and his summoning level is pretty high.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was really helping they would gibe him a regen ability (other than his psychic powers),!like his AOS profile, or even if his power allowed him to gain additional wounds instead of just regenerating them he would be worth taking. But with the same exact stats as a Keeper of Secrets, but at half the speed I cannot justify it just yet. What am I missing.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 19:45:29


Post by: Virules


Yeah, the GUO is overpriced, not fast enough, not survivable enough, and doesn't hit hard enough. But I have an awesome model for it, he seems fun to play, and some people here like him, so I am tempted. Might be fun to surprise people with the to-wound psychic power and suddenly he gets really lucky and puts 12 wounds on something with a single hit!


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 19:47:09


Post by: labmouse42


 Nightlord1987 wrote:
GUO, Are they worth it over taking a Daemon Prince of Nurgle? I really wanna field a Cultist/Zombie force led by a GUO, but it seems like anything He can do a DP does cheaper and faster, and doesn't degrade when taking wounds... Help the Fat Man find his place in my lists. They're themed fluff lists anyway but the GUO always seemed like more of a handicap. Especially since I can't drop him, and his summoning level is pretty high.
Honestly man, I've found my GUO to be good. The fact that he hits for d6 wounds is pretty sweet. I've used him in 2 games and he's cleaned the house when he gets into assault both times.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 20:37:19


Post by: Darksider


Played my second game of 8th edition against Nids today.


1500 points

My list was as follow: 4 DPs (Chaosdaemon) Tzeentch, Wings, 3x Swords, 1x Double Talon
2x6 Flamer
3x3 Nurglings
2x Spawn
1x Changling

My opponent had: 2 Flyrant with double Scythes, Mawloc, Tyrannofex with Fleshborerhive, 2 Harpies with Stranglethorne, Hivecrone, 39 Gargs in two units.

We played Eternal war, Seek and Destroy

First i thought i will never win this; lots of Bodies and 7 Monsters.
But Turn 5 i tabled him completely .

The Daemonprinces were awesome, but honestly i never used the tzeentch spelllore, only smite (it did about 10~15 mortal wounds over the game).

The changeling made my flamers and princes really hard to hit (most of the nids only could hit me on 5s and maybe 6s if they were damaged).

Flamers did their job and really sucked a lot of shooting and did a ton of dmg.

Nurglings were a bit underwhelming, as they did absolutely nothing.


I liked my list a lot, but maybe i will replace the nurglings. What do you think of it?



Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 20:43:40


Post by: Cephalobeard


I wouldn't mix gods this edition. You don't gain anything for it.

I'd also run CSM Daemon Princes instead of Daemon ones, because iirc they can't be targeted as they're under 10 wounds. However, I may have that flip flopped. Either way, use the one that can't be targeted.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 21:15:14


Post by: Galef


 Cephalobeard wrote:
I wouldn't mix gods this edition. You don't gain anything for it.

As a true Undivided Daemon player who has strove to include units from all 4 powers in EVERY list, this "truth" pisses me off.
Not only do you not gain anything by mixing, you actually suffer a bit as GDs, DPs and Heralds affects do not get as much milage.
I own over 4K of Daemons, yet I don't really have enough of any 1 god to field an 2K army

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'd also run CSM Daemon Princes instead of Daemon ones, because iirc they can't be targeted as they're under 10 wounds. However, I may have that flip flopped. Either way, use the one that can't be targeted.

Nurgle Daemon DPs are worth it because of DR, but otherwise I agree.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 21:18:03


Post by: lbennett1991


Can disgustingly resilient be used vs mortal wounds?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 22:06:54


Post by: Nurgle23


lbennett1991 wrote:
Can disgustingly resilient be used vs mortal wounds?

Yes.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/26 22:48:18


Post by: Cephalobeard


 Galef wrote:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
I wouldn't mix gods this edition. You don't gain anything for it.

As a true Undivided Daemon player who has strove to include units from all 4 powers in EVERY list, this "truth" pisses me off.
Not only do you not gain anything by mixing, you actually suffer a bit as GDs, DPs and Heralds affects do not get as much milage.
I own over 4K of Daemons, yet I don't really have enough of any 1 god to field an 2K army

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'd also run CSM Daemon Princes instead of Daemon ones, because iirc they can't be targeted as they're under 10 wounds. However, I may have that flip flopped. Either way, use the one that can't be targeted.

Nurgle Daemon DPs are worth it because of DR, but otherwise I agree.


Agreed. Nurgle DP are solid, I did forget that.

I also feel your pain, but in an opposite sense. I have around 7-8k of JUST Tzeentch, and had started investing in some nurgle for summoning options in 7th. Now it's useless to me and, luckily, I had a buddy who wanted to start Nurgle so they found a new home, but I was also hoping for a "mixed" option, but now you're somewhat forced to simply stick to one side.

Not that I mind too much, as Tzeentch has a plan for everything.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 01:16:20


Post by: Asura Varuna


 Cephalobeard wrote:

8x Disc Heralds, Staves
11x Exalted Flamers
6x 1 Blue 9 Brimstones
Changeling

140 points left over for summoning.


What models are you using for all those Exalted Flamers? Did you buy loads of the chariot kit, or are you using some alternative?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 02:05:08


Post by: Cephalobeard


Found an eBay listing for Chariot kits for $24 each. Bought six of them. Then found another eBay listing selling Exalted Flamer bits for $7, bought all five they had.

I've had the disc Herald's since 7th to use with a Screamer Star, cleared out the Flamers on eBay when I discovered how good they are. You'll be hard pressed to find them under $15 now.

Still, not bad price wise.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 06:02:51


Post by: Terminal


I had a game yesterday, 1500 vs Tyranids. I don't know what it was, maybe my opponent didn't bring enough shooting [he had no Exocrine or Shooty Tyrant], or he was just unlucky with his dice, but my Daemons with Marine support darn near wiped his forces out.

A Daemon DP of Khorne used his Axe to slay a Tervigon and a Carnifex before a second Carnifex took him down. I'm not sure if I'll use the DDPK every time, but I'll sure be tempted to, as he can dish out a lot of cc hurt.

Daemonettes and a Slaanesh Herald on Steed took down a Hive Crone [I think that's the name], though Deathleaper finished them off afterwards. I think I just got lucky here.

It was my first game using Flamers, and they were key to whittling down and holding up his swarms of gaunts and gants in the center.

Plague Marines and a Helbrute in the backfield helped a LOT to contribute firepower - mostly to shoot down a dropped-in Tyrannocyte, since most of the enemy was stuck in the middle column of the board [narrow end deployment].

Karanak was underwhelming. I'll probably just switch him out for five Flesh Hounds next game. In 7th, there were more 'Characters' for him to benefit against - but now since Champions and Sergeants aren't 'characters', and actual Characters left are either backfield support or CC beasts, he has less of a purpose.

I think that multi-god lists can indeed work well, though of course not as completely efficiently or powerfully as mono-god lists.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 10:36:41


Post by: lbennett1991


Nurgle23 wrote:
lbennett1991 wrote:
Can disgustingly resilient be used vs mortal wounds?

Yes.


I'm still unsure whether this is allowed. Most other special rules such as tyranid catalyst and elder spirit stones specifically say they protect against wounds and mortal wounds. I play chaos through and through so would love this to work, but not if classed as cheating.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 11:27:21


Post by: Captyn_Bob


It definitely works. Don't even worry about it.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 11:58:17


Post by: D6Damager


 Cephalobeard wrote:
I wouldn't mix gods this edition. You don't gain anything for it.

I'd also run CSM Daemon Princes instead of Daemon ones, because iirc they can't be targeted as they're under 10 wounds. However, I may have that flip flopped. Either way, use the one that can't be targeted.


Their sole purpose is to cast smite and charge into combat. So, you are trying to get within 18-12" anyways. Once in melee, they are the closest model so that benefit goes out the window usually by turn 2 and definitely after you made your first assault and either wiped out their small unit/vehicle or have a larger unit or tougher vehicle fall back on you.

I prefer taking the winged, double maelific talons, Daemon version prince of Tzeentch for the extra 2 wounds and the +1 to inv. saves, all with Treason of Tzeentch. I know you can't cast Treason 3x, but with three of them I am more likely to be in the right place at the right time for a good Treason cast (they mostly cast Smite anyways).

This works for me as I usually also take Magnus and/or Be'lakor and the opponent focuses their attention on them first.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 12:11:10


Post by: Cephalobeard


 D6Damager wrote:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
I wouldn't mix gods this edition. You don't gain anything for it.

I'd also run CSM Daemon Princes instead of Daemon ones, because iirc they can't be targeted as they're under 10 wounds. However, I may have that flip flopped. Either way, use the one that can't be targeted.


Their sole purpose is to cast smite and charge into combat. So, you are trying to get within 18-12" anyways. Once in melee, they are the closest model so that benefit goes out the window usually by turn 2 and definitely after you made your first assault and either wiped out their small unit/vehicle or have a larger unit or tougher vehicle fall back on you.

I prefer taking the winged, double maelific talons, Daemon version prince of Tzeentch for the extra 2 wounds and the +1 to inv. saves, all with Treason of Tzeentch. I know you can't cast Treason 3x, but with three of them I am more likely to be in the right place at the right time for a good Treason cast (they mostly cast Smite anyways).

This works for me as I usually also take Magnus and/or Be'lakor and the opponent focuses their attention on them first.


While their purpose may be the smite and charge into combat, if one of the models is locked in combat and you have 9 Characters behind it, they literally can't shoot any of them as long as they one locked in combat is still the closest model for the enemy units.

The new character rules are not to be underrated, especially by Daemons who have many, many characters who can use those rules to their advantage.



Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 12:47:22


Post by: Galef


 Cephalobeard wrote:

While their purpose may be the smite and charge into combat, if one of the models is locked in combat and you have 9 Characters behind it, they literally can't shoot any of them as long as they one locked in combat is still the closest model for the enemy units.

The new character rules are not to be underrated, especially by Daemons who have many, many characters who can use those rules to their advantage.


Though I agree overall that CSM princes are the right choice, could you elaborate on the enemy not being able to shoot at any of them?
If the closest DP is in melee, the enemy just needs to Fall Back and shoot the piss out of it with other units.

The potential downside to a 10+ CSM DP list is that the closest one WILL die each turn.
Side note, maybe in an all DP list, 1-2 Daemon DPs are worth fielding as there has to be a closest model anyway, why not benefit from the extra wounds and ability?
I'll post a list in the Armylist thread

-


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 13:05:00


Post by: Cephalobeard


The enemy certainly could fall back, but if they don't, and that model is still locked in combat for any reason, it is still technically the closest enemy target.

According to GW designer notes they released, they confirmed that even if a target is locked in combat it counts as the closest enemy target and you cannot shoot characters behind them.

Ex:

You have 3 Princes.

1 is in Front, locked in combat. One is 1" Behind it, one is 3" behind it.

If the opponent does not fall back, forgets to, etc, they may not shoot either of those other princes.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 13:09:42


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


Are screamers really actually that bad? That's a right old shame.

I'm guessing the main problem is their durability and/or cost, since their melee damage hasn't really gone down that much (aside from a lower S value on their main attack iirc)?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 13:16:13


Post by: Galef


Spoiler:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
The enemy certainly could fall back, but if they don't, and that model is still locked in combat for any reason, it is still technically the closest enemy target.

According to GW designer notes they released, they confirmed that even if a target is locked in combat it counts as the closest enemy target and you cannot shoot characters behind them.

Ex:

You have 3 Princes.

1 is in Front, locked in combat. One is 1" Behind it, one is 3" behind it.

If the opponent does not fall back, forgets to, etc, they may not shoot either of those other princes.

So basically, only a dumb opponent would leave a unit engaged with the closest prince, thereby skipping their entire shooting phase?

Unrelated question: How do we feel about Nurglings?
I have 2x 3 that were my standard Troops prior to Horrors. I don't like how badly they got nerfed.
-lowered to T2? Ok, instant death isn't a thing, so fine
-S2 and only gets to re-roll 1s? Meh, Nurglings didn't do much damage anyway
-Points increase too? Now your just putting salt in the wound
-Oh, and while we're at it, you can't use your DR ability against over half the weapons that exist. Thanx GW

Is there a purpose for these guys? For the cost of 4 Nurgling bases, we can get 10 Plaguebearers that are way tougher and have more models (for objectives)

Even their "infiltrate" ability seems meh. I've seen people suggest using it to tie up a unit turn 1 to stop that units shooting, but the rule doesn't allow the Nurglings from deploying 9" from enemy UNITs, but from the enemy Deployment. If the opponent deploys their units in any kind of sensible way, there will not be units close enough for the Nurglings to charge.

-


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 13:35:12


Post by: Cephalobeard


 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Are screamers really actually that bad? That's a right old shame.

I'm guessing the main problem is their durability and/or cost, since their melee damage hasn't really gone down that much (aside from a lower S value on their main attack iirc)?


Previously you could guarantee hits by using their fly-by attack. Now you have to rely on their WS4 attacks to even do anything.

They're just... not good.


Spoiler:


 Galef wrote:
[spoiler]
 Cephalobeard wrote:
The enemy certainly could fall back, but if they don't, and that model is still locked in combat for any reason, it is still technically the closest enemy target.

According to GW designer notes they released, they confirmed that even if a target is locked in combat it counts as the closest enemy target and you cannot shoot characters behind them.

Ex:

You have 3 Princes.

1 is in Front, locked in combat. One is 1" Behind it, one is 3" behind it.

If the opponent does not fall back, forgets to, etc, they may not shoot either of those other princes.

So basically, only a dumb opponent would leave a unit engaged with the closest prince, thereby skipping their entire shooting phase?

Unrelated question: How do we feel about Nurglings?
I have 2x 3 that were my standard Troops prior to Horrors. I don't like how badly they got nerfed.
-lowered to T2? Ok, instant death isn't a thing, so fine
-S2 and only gets to re-roll 1s? Meh, Nurglings didn't do much damage anyway
-Points increase too? Now your just putting salt in the wound
-Oh, and while we're at it, you can't use your DR ability against over half the weapons that exist. Thanx GW

Is there a purpose for these guys? For the cost of 4 Nurgling bases, we can get 10 Plaguebearers that are way tougher and have more models (for objectives)

Even their "infiltrate" ability seems meh. I've seen people suggest using it to tie up a unit turn 1 to stop that units shooting, but the rule doesn't allow the Nurglings from deploying 9" from enemy UNITs, but from the enemy Deployment. If the opponent deploys their units in any kind of sensible way, there will not be units close enough for the Nurglings to charge.

-




Nurglings are wonderful screens. Sure, for slightly more points you can get a tough backfield, but nurglings can jump right into your opponents face and prevent them from going anywhere, while you position and move yourself.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 15:05:13


Post by: labmouse42


 Galef wrote:
[spoiler]Is there a purpose for these guys? For the cost of 4 Nurgling bases, we can get 10 Plaguebearers that are way tougher and have more models (for objectives)-
Infiltrate is the big thing here. You will hear the term 'screening unit' put out there on the FLG podcast and stream channel.

That is because 2 squads of nurglings placed 9" from your models can block most or all of your army from getting hit by deep striking scions.
I'd rather have my 5 points per wound nurgling stands get double tapped by plasma than my daemon princes.

When your opponent rushes forward with smite spam, instead of your main units getting hit, your nurglings -- which are 5 points per wound are taking the smites (and getting DR rolls)


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 15:16:48


Post by: Galef


 labmouse42 wrote:
 Galef wrote:
[spoiler]Is there a purpose for these guys? For the cost of 4 Nurgling bases, we can get 10 Plaguebearers that are way tougher and have more models (for objectives)-
Infiltrate is the big thing here. You will hear the term 'screening unit' put out there on the FLG podcast and stream channel.

That is because 2 squads of nurglings placed 9" from your models can block most or all of your army from getting hit by deep striking scions.
I'd rather have my 5 points per wound nurgling stands get double tapped by plasma than my daemon princes.

When your opponent rushes forward with smite spam, instead of your main units getting hit, your nurglings -- which are 5 points per wound are taking the smites (and getting DR rolls)

Really good points, thanx

-


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 17:42:59


Post by: Virules


Has anyone tried, or seen a game with, Scabby the Nurgle Daemon Lord?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 20:07:19


Post by: Gibs55


Very interested in this heavy DP army. What s the concensus on the best mark to take for the army? How does the army function with so few models?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 20:44:05


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Gibs55 wrote:
Very interested in this heavy DP army. What s the concensus on the best mark to take for the army? How does the army function with so few models?


Its one of those match-ups like Necron Pylons in 7th. It either does very well, or nothing in a bad match-up. If you want to run it for the fun of it, that's awesome, but don't expect it to be top tournament competitive. Its too easy for skilled players to play around, and horde armies will ruin your fun.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 21:01:00


Post by: Galef


Yeah, I think the all DP list will do great against other low-ish model count armies like Marines, Eldar, maybe against T'au.
It will suffer greatly against horde armies like Guard, Nids & Orks (which some initial reports are saying are the ideal for 8E)


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 21:16:07


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 Galef wrote:
Yeah, I think the all DP list will do great against other low-ish model count armies like Marines, Eldar, maybe against T'au.
It will suffer greatly against horde armies like Guard, Nids & Orks (which some initial reports are saying are the ideal for 8E)


Even Tau players are flooding their lists with Gun Drones, so no bueno, there.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/27 23:52:30


Post by: luke1705


 Virules wrote:
Has anyone tried, or seen a game with, Scabby the Nurgle Daemon Lord?


I haven't but I think he'd do fine. He's pretty appropriately costed, and gaining wounds back every turn from the nurgle psychic power plus his already disgusting resilience....plus an extra 6+ FNP if you want to make him your warlord....he's not going to die. He doesn't have a ton of attacks but he doesn't degrade much. Very strong and does a ridiculous amount of damage, especially if you cast the +1 on the to wound roll to get even more damage. The auto hit pistol means that hordes have difficulty tying him down...all in all, not an awful choice to build an army around.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/29 02:20:42


Post by: whembly


What do you guys think of Aetaos?

He has an ability to reroll summons...

I also found out that Magnus doesn't suffer from Aetaos jealousy (waaaay too much eggs in one basket though).

I'm thinking of getting the new LoC model...


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/29 09:11:53


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Have a question. If I play both a detachment of chaos daemons and a detachment of CSM. Can my chaos daemons side summon in a defiler? (assuming same god of chaos of course).



Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/29 09:15:25


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Only units with the daemonic ritual rule can be summoned.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(and i can't see any benefit to summoning a defiler over deploying it.)


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/29 09:16:17


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


You can only summon units that have the Daemonic Ritual ability - and Defilers don't have that (indeed, none of the GW CSM units have it).


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/29 09:24:56


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Hmmm, ok. :(

I guess closest thing would be to summon in a soul reaper instead.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/29 12:01:57


Post by: Cephalobeard


Anyone give any thoughts to a Spined Chaos Beast?

S7/T6/12W, gains all the appropriate god buffs when you select one, and has 8 Attacks while 7+ Wounds.

10" Movement means it's pretty decent, speed wise. Has some reasonable bulk, and threatens things in melee/has a healing attack.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/29 13:51:28


Post by: D6Damager


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
 Galef wrote:
Yeah, I think the all DP list will do great against other low-ish model count armies like Marines, Eldar, maybe against T'au.
It will suffer greatly against horde armies like Guard, Nids & Orks (which some initial reports are saying are the ideal for 8E)


Even Tau players are flooding their lists with Gun Drones, so no bueno, there.


Gun drones need 5's to hit (unless drone controller then 4+ to hit) and 5's to wound a DP . The DP then gets to make 3+ armor saves (2+ if you have any cover) as there is no AP on pulse carbines. DP's only need to worry about the suits.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/29 15:08:10


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 D6Damager wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
 Galef wrote:
Yeah, I think the all DP list will do great against other low-ish model count armies like Marines, Eldar, maybe against T'au.
It will suffer greatly against horde armies like Guard, Nids & Orks (which some initial reports are saying are the ideal for 8E)


Even Tau players are flooding their lists with Gun Drones, so no bueno, there.


Gun drones need 5's to hit (unless drone controller then 4+ to hit) and 5's to wound a DP . The DP then gets to make 3+ armor saves (2+ if you have any cover) as there is no AP on pulse carbines. DP's only need to worry about the suits.


Sigh... Yes, but a list that is counting on half of its damage coming from Smite, can be neutered by someone sticking chaff in front of their actual units.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/29 16:15:27


Post by: Asura Varuna


And even after considering blocking smites, gun drones often come in units of 2, so there is very little chance of pulling off a meaningful charge. On top of that any drones that may survive or get consolidated into have fly to leave combat anyway. Properly positioned 16 point drone speedbumps will slow princes for a long time. And force them into eating round after round of overwatch from multiple units on top of normal shooting.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/29 17:41:07


Post by: ochobits


Played my first game in 15 years today, 60 power levels friendly match in the GW local store with my Tzeentch army (60% Daemons/40% CSM). I was facing Undivided CSM and I literally destroyed the opponent, although I must confess I was extremely lucky with most of my important dice rolls.

Mission was The Relic and that's when my luck started, since his army was lacking units with high movility. I got to start on turn 1 thanks to daemons being summoned, and my Pink horrors got the relic on turn 2. Then I moved them to the deployment zone while the rest of my army took care of securing the lines and destroying every single enemy unit. The game ended on Turn 5 with only his Chaos Lord standing with one wound left.

Highlights:

· I literally destroyed a Vindicator with two lucky Smites (6 wounds on the first one and 5 on the second one). It didn't explode though.
· His 5 Terminators arrived via deep strike in the first turn and destroyed most of my cultist on the flank. My Sorcerer on bike moved close to them, my termies appeared via deep strike and approached them thanks to warptime. Heavy flamer and a charge did the rest and destroyed the whole unit in a single turn.
· My three flamers did a great job containing a Maulerfiend for three entire turns. Those guys are really good, having the ability to flee from combat and shoot over and over really pissed him off. It got stuck enough time for my termies to arrive and finish the job.
· My Sorcerer on bike moved behind the lines to cast Smite on the Chaos Lord and his Chosen. Perils of the warp made his head explode but he took most of the Chosen with him
· His Forgefiend suffered constant Smite spam until being reduced to one wound. A lucky bolter shot from one of the regular chaos marines made it explode.
· My Herald of Tzeench on Burning Chariot used was fantastic. It got stuck on combat with the chosen and the Forgefiend. With only two wounds left he killed one chosen with the ritual dagger, recovered one wound, fleed from combat and joined the escaping Horrors while casting Smite.

MVP:

· The Changeling. He is an absolute beast. I couldn't sayt how many impacts my daemons avoided thanks to his bubble. Then he charged the aspiring champion and used his own power fist to smash his face. Next turn he casted Smite on the Chaos Lord, charged and took 2 wounds from him thanks to his own chainfist before dying on the counter-attack.

To summarize, less than 2 hours of absolute fun. I know I will be dealing with worst dice rolls and overall luck but I had a blast on my comeback


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/29 18:47:42


Post by: Arachnofiend


 whembly wrote:
What do you guys think of Aetaos?

He has an ability to reroll summons...

I also found out that Magnus doesn't suffer from Aetaos jealousy (waaaay too much eggs in one basket though).

I'm thinking of getting the new LoC model...

Aetaos is ridiculously good, 100% worth his 700 points. The 3++ makes him nigh invulnerable to the things you would use to try to kill a big model like that (command point rerolls are Good) and both his gun and melee are brutal hits.

I didn't realize he could play with Magnus... Almost makes me wanna field a Superheavy Detachment with him, Aetaos, a Renegade Knight, and... something else? Preferably not another Knight, for variety's sake. Though I'm pretty sure nobody in my group would play with me if I tried to bring that army.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/29 19:17:13


Post by: Cephalobeard


I'm strongly considering getting Aetaos, just for kicks because I love the model. Him being at least "okay" makes it hard to resist.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 03:58:26


Post by: Invul


Apologies if this has been ought up before, but anyone else find it strange that Fateweaver only has a 5++ since he doesn't have Ephemeral Form? Feels like an oversight.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 04:39:58


Post by: rvd1ofakind


Played vs CSM:
My list:
Magnus
3 tzeentch Daemon DPs wings claws
LoC
Changeling
9 brim 1 blue x2
10 pink 7 brim
3 flamers x3
burning chariot
7 furies

His list had a knight, noise marines, havocs, cultists, DP, lord, spawns.

Tabled him on turn 3 pretty much. Yeah. Tzeentch is broken vs marines and elite armies in general. Also the flamers handle what hordes they might have.
Magnus is just silly. 32 move, about 6-10 mortal wounds into charge with 4++ re-roll 1s. The entire army focused him. Got 2 wounds off. Obviously very lucky but still. He killed about 600 pts worth of stuff(5 terminators dead like nothing in 1 turn. Could've killed a squad of 8 probably) and took every bullet and every charge for 2 turns. Meanwhile the rest of my army moped up everything and got every objective making a point victory impossible for him. He had only the knight left turn 3.
DP - amazing.
LoC - just get DPs :p
Changeling - if you're not taking him, you're silly
Furies - 4+WS, no AP, just bad
Chariot died turn 1 since I failed 9 saves in a row xD
Flamers were busy camping objectives due to what I drew (maelstrom)


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 12:30:29


Post by: Galef


Invul wrote:
Apologies if this has been ought up before, but anyone else find it strange that Fateweaver only has a 5++ since he doesn't have Ephemeral Form? Feels like an oversight.

GW knows this is a typo
Here are my thoughts on it:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/730933.page


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 16:43:38


Post by: Cephalobeard


Made a list using Big Bird.

Supreme Command

Changeling
Herald Disc/Staff
Herald Disc/Staff
Herald Disc/Staff
Herald Disc/Staff
Aetaos

Exalted Flamer

Batallion

Herald Disc/Staff
Herald Disc/Staff

1 Blue, 9 Brim
1 Blue, 9 Brim
1 Blue, 9 Brim

Exalted Flamer

Batallion

Herald Disc/Staff
Herald Disc/Staff

1 Blue, 9 Brim
1 Blue, 9 Brim
1 Blue, 9 Brim

Exalted Flamer



-----


Honestly, it feels pretty solid. Changeling gives everyone -1 to be hit, you still hide heralds behind horrors and Aetaos, while he tosses off huge shots at the large wound targets you'd have issues smiting. I... Kind of like it.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 16:44:13


Post by: Virules


I don't get the special rule from the ranged weapon and creating flamers when using Aetos. Do you have to kill 10-12 models with that attack? Or is it if the unit was originally 10+ models at the start of the game? I assume it's at start of game because it says "last models", and then you could only trigger it if you happen to shoot the unit when it has between 10-12 models left exactly and you kill them all in one shot...


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 17:05:45


Post by: Cephalobeard


If the unit was originally 10 it works. He just needs to kill the last models. I can't imagine you'd ever use the rule, regardless, because you'd need to pay for them and have Aetaos shooting at Infantry is a bit of a waste considering the strength of his hits.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 17:18:25


Post by: Virules


Why would you need to pay for them?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 17:20:40


Post by: Cephalobeard


All models that you add to your army that are not in your original list must be paid from reinforcement points. All the extra little rules Daemons have that produce models all cost points, and as a result are completely useless.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 17:43:55


Post by: Galef


 Cephalobeard wrote:
All models that you add to your army that are not in your original list must be paid from reinforcement points. All the extra little rules Daemons have that produce models all cost points, and as a result are completely useless.

In Matched play at least. In the increasingly popular Narrative play, new units don't cost anything.
This is frustrating for Horrors since if means Pinks are crap in Matched, but AMAZABALLS in Narrative

-


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 17:45:45


Post by: Cephalobeard


Sure. I only play Matched, so my opinion is biased.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 18:00:07


Post by: Virules


Dang, I thought that was just for summoning. Yup, that sure is useless.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 18:15:58


Post by: Tonberry7


You pay for summoned models and for splitting horrors as it is specifically mentioned in their rules. The other instances I'm not so sure what was intended.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 18:22:14


Post by: Cephalobeard


It was. Any new models created, such as spawn or flamers in this instance, are all paid via reinforcement points in matched play. In narrative/pretend 40k you do whatever you want anyway, so it's all free there.



Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 18:41:50


Post by: Galef


Yet another reason why Icons are WORHTLESS for Daemons now.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 18:52:20


Post by: Nurgle23


 Galef wrote:
Yet another reason why Icons are WORHTLESS for Daemons now.

Icons are great. You have only to pay for stuff you haven't paid before. So the models you get back are for free.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 18:53:49


Post by: Azoqu


 Galef wrote:
Yet another reason why Icons are WORHTLESS for Daemons now.


GW really needs to go over every type of extra spawn and tell us what costs and what does not. Currently I know the following:

Horrors splitting costs (written in the rules)
Spore Mines are free (written in their rules)
Summoning costs
Tervigon spawning gaunts into a brand new unit.

The following are what are up in the air:

Reanimation Protocols
Other ressing options
Tervigon spawning gaunts into an existing unit (if they're free, this model just shows the inconsistancy)
Girlyman standing back up

Games Workshop really should just write if it's free or costs something in each of the unit entries so we all know 100% the case for each thing.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 18:54:44


Post by: Cephalobeard


Azoqu wrote:
 Galef wrote:
Yet another reason why Icons are WORHTLESS for Daemons now.




The following are what are up in the air:

Reanimation Protocols
Over ressing options
Tervigon spawning gaunts into an existing unit (if they're free, this model just shows the inconsistancy)
Girlyman standing back up



Those are all free. Because feth Daemons, lol


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 19:32:03


Post by: CrownAxe


The reinforcements rule is very simple. If you add a new UNIT to the game you pay it's points. That is it. Adding models to already existing units don't cost anything


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 19:37:30


Post by: Breng77


Azoqu wrote:
 Galef wrote:
Yet another reason why Icons are WORHTLESS for Daemons now.


GW really needs to go over every type of extra spawn and tell us what costs and what does not. Currently I know the following:

Horrors splitting costs (written in the rules)
Spore Mines are free (written in their rules)
Summoning costs
Tervigon spawning gaunts into a brand new unit.

The following are what are up in the air:

Reanimation Protocols
Other ressing options
Tervigon spawning gaunts into an existing unit (if they're free, this model just shows the inconsistancy)
Girlyman standing back up

Games Workshop really should just write if it's free or costs something in each of the unit entries so we all know 100% the case for each thing.


If you "create new" models it costs points, unless otherwise specified. If you "replace old" models it is free.

The tervigon actually spells this out quite cleanly,

if you add a new unit of 10 - that costs points
if you replace up to 10 that died earlier - no cost


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 19:37:43


Post by: Galef


 CrownAxe wrote:
The reinforcements rule is very simple. If you add a new UNIT to the game you pay it's points. That is it. Adding models to already existing units don't cost anything

Which is probably why Split has a specific note about it.

So bringing models back is free. Cool......Icons are still crap though. 25pts extra for a 1-in-6 ability that might do nothing all game? I'd rather just buy more Daemons, thanx

-


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 20:10:54


Post by: Virules


Icons are great in large units of Daemonettes or Plague Bearers. 1 in 6 chance of not losing a bunch of models to morale, and instead getting d6 models back (and maybe keeping the 20+ squad bonus)? Awesome. Especially on plague bearers who can already be annoying to kill.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 20:13:06


Post by: whembly


Breng77 wrote:
Azoqu wrote:
 Galef wrote:
Yet another reason why Icons are WORHTLESS for Daemons now.


GW really needs to go over every type of extra spawn and tell us what costs and what does not. Currently I know the following:

Horrors splitting costs (written in the rules)
Spore Mines are free (written in their rules)
Summoning costs
Tervigon spawning gaunts into a brand new unit.

The following are what are up in the air:

Reanimation Protocols
Other ressing options
Tervigon spawning gaunts into an existing unit (if they're free, this model just shows the inconsistancy)
Girlyman standing back up

Games Workshop really should just write if it's free or costs something in each of the unit entries so we all know 100% the case for each thing.


If you "create new" models it costs points, unless otherwise specified. If you "replace old" models it is free.

The tervigon actually spells this out quite cleanly,

if you add a new unit of 10 - that costs points
if you replace up to 10 that died earlier - no cost

So... what about Magnus "spawning" when killing a character... is that free? You're replacing the old model...


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 20:35:01


Post by: Cephalobeard


 whembly wrote:
Breng77 wrote:
Azoqu wrote:
 Galef wrote:
Yet another reason why Icons are WORHTLESS for Daemons now.


GW really needs to go over every type of extra spawn and tell us what costs and what does not. Currently I know the following:

Horrors splitting costs (written in the rules)
Spore Mines are free (written in their rules)
Summoning costs
Tervigon spawning gaunts into a brand new unit.

The following are what are up in the air:

Reanimation Protocols
Other ressing options
Tervigon spawning gaunts into an existing unit (if they're free, this model just shows the inconsistancy)
Girlyman standing back up

Games Workshop really should just write if it's free or costs something in each of the unit entries so we all know 100% the case for each thing.


If you "create new" models it costs points, unless otherwise specified. If you "replace old" models it is free.

The tervigon actually spells this out quite cleanly,

if you add a new unit of 10 - that costs points
if you replace up to 10 that died earlier - no cost

So... what about Magnus "spawning" when killing a character... is that free? You're replacing the old model...


Not you're not. YOU are creating a new unit.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 20:54:50


Post by: Rydria


 Virules wrote:
Icons are great in large units of Daemonettes or Plague Bearers. 1 in 6 chance of not losing a bunch of models to morale, and instead getting d6 models back (and maybe keeping the 20+ squad bonus)? Awesome. Especially on plague bearers who can already be annoying to kill.
Have you tested the icons, I've had allot of success with them in age of sigmar but they are free there so if they end up not doing anything i don't care. I mean in theory they are great lose 1 lesser daemon roll for morale (with no hope of failing and then generating d6 extra)


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 20:55:38


Post by: Arachnofiend


The icon would be a lot better if it proc'd on a 6, imo.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 22:46:07


Post by: whembly


 Cephalobeard wrote:
 whembly wrote:
Breng77 wrote:
Azoqu wrote:
 Galef wrote:
Yet another reason why Icons are WORHTLESS for Daemons now.


GW really needs to go over every type of extra spawn and tell us what costs and what does not. Currently I know the following:

Horrors splitting costs (written in the rules)
Spore Mines are free (written in their rules)
Summoning costs
Tervigon spawning gaunts into a brand new unit.

The following are what are up in the air:

Reanimation Protocols
Other ressing options
Tervigon spawning gaunts into an existing unit (if they're free, this model just shows the inconsistancy)
Girlyman standing back up

Games Workshop really should just write if it's free or costs something in each of the unit entries so we all know 100% the case for each thing.


If you "create new" models it costs points, unless otherwise specified. If you "replace old" models it is free.

The tervigon actually spells this out quite cleanly,

if you add a new unit of 10 - that costs points
if you replace up to 10 that died earlier - no cost

So... what about Magnus "spawning" when killing a character... is that free? You're replacing the old model...


Not you're not. YOU are creating a new unit.

Okay.

So... the folks playing Magnus... do you purposely put aside enough reinforcement points for a spawn or two? Is it worth that? If Magnus dies, your other characters could summon them.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 22:48:36


Post by: Cephalobeard


I wouldnt ever pay for Spawn, personally.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/06/30 23:14:26


Post by: BlaxicanX


Nurgle23 wrote:
 Galef wrote:
Yet another reason why Icons are WORHTLESS for Daemons now.

Icons are great.
25 points PER SQUAD for an item that will literally do nothing 83% of the time is god awful.

The only reason it looks okay is because it's our option for true BS mitigation and thus has no frame of reference.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/01 04:34:45


Post by: rvd1ofakind


How about just take 2,75 more models isntead of relying on 1 in 6 RNG icon?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/01 05:03:17


Post by: Virules


Played a test game. Wow the Slaanesh and Tzeentch daemon lords are great. They slowly chewed their way through a melee daemon army, with Magnus doing some damage and tanking before going down turn 3.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/01 07:43:04


Post by: avedominusnox


Does changeling's aura affect Magnus? It mentions tzeentch daemons and Magnus has tzeentch in faction keywords and daemon in keywords. How does that work?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/01 07:47:51


Post by: Gordon Shumway


Yes, it would. He's a Tzeentch man. He's got the tzeetchm moves and jives and all that comes with it. Until GW says otherwise.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/01 14:13:01


Post by: casdark


I just read a space marines flyer spam that won the first GP.
how do we beat this army?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/01 14:36:40


Post by: Cephalobeard


Well, literally almost every Tzeentch unit has fly and can simply charge the planes to keep them from shooting. Otherwise, smite and high strength weaponry would likely do just fine.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/01 19:47:34


Post by: Arachnofiend


 Cephalobeard wrote:
Well, literally almost every Tzeentch unit has fly and can simply charge the planes to keep them from shooting. Otherwise, smite and high strength weaponry would likely do just fine.


Models that can Fly can fall back and still shoot, though. I'm pretty sure it's just that you can fight Airborne units with fliers, I can't find anything saying that doing so removes the ability to fall back and shoot.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/01 20:56:12


Post by: Nurgle23


 BlaxicanX wrote:
Nurgle23 wrote:
 Galef wrote:
Yet another reason why Icons are WORHTLESS for Daemons now.

Icons are great.
25 points PER SQUAD for an item that will literally do nothing 83% of the time is god awful.

The only reason it looks okay is because it's our option for true BS mitigation and thus has no frame of reference.

You are right.
I might have been blinded by seeing it work. You just have to take enough leadership tests to make it happen.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/01 20:57:33


Post by: ochobits


Spoiler:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
Made a list using Big Bird.

Supreme Command

Changeling
Herald Disc/Staff
Herald Disc/Staff
Herald Disc/Staff
Herald Disc/Staff
Aetaos

Exalted Flamer

Batallion

Herald Disc/Staff
Herald Disc/Staff

1 Blue, 9 Brim
1 Blue, 9 Brim
1 Blue, 9 Brim

Exalted Flamer

Batallion

Herald Disc/Staff
Herald Disc/Staff

1 Blue, 9 Brim
1 Blue, 9 Brim
1 Blue, 9 Brim

Exalted Flamer

Honestly, it feels pretty solid. Changeling gives everyone -1 to be hit, you still hide heralds behind horrors and Aetaos, while he tosses off huge shots at the large wound targets you'd have issues smiting. I... Kind of like it.


May I ask what are your plans to capture/mantain objectives? I run similar units and I am wondering how to do this (I am quite noob) but so far I found a lot of threads about unit power and not so many about general tactics and how to use units on the different missions.

I guess summoning daemons will work to steal objectives from the enemy thanks to the high movility on Tzeench units, but... how to keep your own? Do you park a horrors unit on your objectives near your deployment zone or you just wait to turns 3-4 to send the units there?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/01 20:58:26


Post by: Cephalobeard


Arachnofiend wrote:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
Well, literally almost every Tzeentch unit has fly and can simply charge the planes to keep them from shooting. Otherwise, smite and high strength weaponry would likely do just fine.


Models that can Fly can fall back and still shoot, though. I'm pretty sure it's just that you can fight Airborne units with fliers, I can't find anything saying that doing so removes the ability to fall back and shoot.


Ah, forgive me. That is correct.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
 ochobits wrote:
[spoiler]
 Cephalobeard wrote:
Made a list using Big Bird.

Supreme Command

Changeling
Herald Disc/Staff
Herald Disc/Staff
Herald Disc/Staff
Herald Disc/Staff
Aetaos

Exalted Flamer

Batallion

Herald Disc/Staff
Herald Disc/Staff

1 Blue, 9 Brim
1 Blue, 9 Brim
1 Blue, 9 Brim

Exalted Flamer

Batallion

Herald Disc/Staff
Herald Disc/Staff

1 Blue, 9 Brim
1 Blue, 9 Brim
1 Blue, 9 Brim

Exalted Flamer

Honestly, it feels pretty solid. Changeling gives everyone -1 to be hit, you still hide heralds behind horrors and Aetaos, while he tosses off huge shots at the large wound targets you'd have issues smiting. I... Kind of like it.


May I ask what are your plans to capture/mantain objectives? I run similar units and I am wondering how to do this (I am quite noob) but so far I found a lot of threads about unit power and not so many about general tactics and how to use units on the different missions.

I guess summoning daemons will work to steal objectives from the enemy thanks to the high movility on Tzeench units, but... how to keep your own? Do you park a horrors unit on your objectives near your deployment zone or you just wait to turns 3-4 to send the units there?


Keep 1-2 backfield horror units. You screen them starting from deployment so you can't be deep struck on, and tend to keep them back there. This list also leaves 20-40pts or so so you can summon 10-20 more Brimstones during the match.

In all the games I've played with other lists so far, I've tended to have 1-2 small squads left at the end of the game to take points, or simply been able to move+advance a herald back to one.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/01 21:07:51


Post by: ochobits


Keep 1-2 backfield horror units. You screen them starting from deployment so you can't be deep struck on, and tend to keep them back there. This list also leaves 20-40pts or so so you can summon 10-20 more Brimstones during the match.

In all the games I've played with other lists so far, I've tended to have 1-2 small squads left at the end of the game to take points, or simply been able to move+advance a herald back to one.


That makes a lot of sense. With such amount of Heralds on Disc you can literally cross the whole table with one of them to secure objectives at the end of the match. I was even considering to bring some cultists or even Tzaangors as a cheap way to park big units on your deployment zone but I would be happy to use those points for more versatile options (and more Smite!)

Looking forward to read how your list works.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/01 21:21:42


Post by: Cephalobeard


I just bought an Archaon I'm going to convert in to Aetaos (exchanging the khorne/Nurgle head for two more Tzeentch heads), and I'll likely get in a game with him next weekend (if shipping isn't delayed).


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/01 23:56:45


Post by: CrownAxe


 Cephalobeard wrote:
I just bought an Archaon I'm going to convert in to Aetaos (exchanging the khorne/Nurgle head for two more Tzeentch heads), and I'll likely get in a game with him next weekend (if shipping isn't delayed).
post some pics please that's sounds awesome


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 02:38:08


Post by: labmouse42


Greater Unclean One Review
Today and yesterday I played 'fattie' in four games. In every game, he was exceptional -- winning the MVP in 3/4 of my games. This post will talk about what I found to be really good with him, where his weak, and how I've found to best use him.



Durability
'Fattie' did not want to die. In all four games, he was only killed once -- and that took the entire enemy army shooting at him three game turns in a row.
The reason for this is twofold. First, he is just tough -- a T7 model with a 5++/DR and 12 wounds takes a while to burn though. I also continues to cast 'Fleshy Abundance' on him to heal the wounds delt. In one game, I cast the power 5 turns in a row healing 10 wounds -- meaning it took my opponents 22 wounds to kill him.

Move 7"
'Fattie' was not nearly as slow as one might think. Even on hammer and anvil games, he was able to get into assault by turn 3 in every game. I was honestly concerned he would be shot to pieces going in, but he never had any problems.

Plague Fail
This is am amazing tool in the GUO's toolkit. Firstly, it's an assault 2 7" range weapon with a STR 6, -3AP, DMG 2. If you have a herald nearby, it becomes a STR 7 weapon. This is really useful against things like tanks for flyers, since the GUO is hitting on a 2+. Since it's assault you can also use it the turn you advanced.
You can use this flail while you are engaged in assault, it's like having a pistol that gets 2 extra attacks.
It can also target unit's that are in assault. In one game I moved so the closest model was a priest, who was engaged with my plaguebearers. The priest was the closest target, so I killed it in the shooting phase preventing the aura giving all the nearby guard +1 attack in the shooting phase. 'Fattie' then assaulted the guard, wrecking the squad.
Bilesword
This STR 7 weapon (STR 8 if you have a herald) tore upon a plethera of enemies in my games. It destroyed Pask (twice!). It wrecked Yarrik. It killed a hive tyrant. It killed a Tau Commander, and many other targets. The Bilesword is a fantastic weapon. It's hitting on 2s, and rerolling failed wounds. It's -3 AP value combined with a d6 wounds means that I was throwing 14 wounds on targets like LRBTs. It was complete money.

It's actually much better than a deamon princes toolkit for wrecking vehicles, because the prince -- while hitting more often, only is doing 2 wounds with a -2 rend. The bilesword has less attacks, but is wounding more often, and is doing 3.5 wounds per failed save -- which is combined with a better rend.

The bottom line is that the bilesword rips apart armor extremely well.

Nurglings
The d6 attacks from nurglings on the GUO are just hilarious. They killed an insane amount of guard this weekend in all unexpected places. Sure, they are only STR 2 attacks (rerolling 1s) but you do get d6 attacks and they hit on 2s...

Smite
Smite is such a good tool. In one game, my opponent flew his hemlock fighter by herald and GUO. I then threw 4 mortal wounds on him from two smites. On the following round, I threw 4 more wounds on the fighter with smites the assaulted it with plague drones and killed it. Smite made this possible. It's not the only reason to take the GUO, but having an extra smite is always nice.

Aura
It is worth mentioning that the LD10 aura proved very useful when having him nearby a squad of plague bearers. It made a big difference in keeping them around.

The weaknesses
I lost a shocking amount of wounds to massed conscript fire. 35 conscripts using 'FRFSRF' did a shockingly large amount of wounds. (2-3) In assault the conscripts were able to do consistant damage.
The lascannons, MLs and battle cannons were a problem as well, but in our games they just did not come up as often. In all my games, he took more wounds from small arms fire than large fire.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 03:25:09


Post by: Arachnofiend


I had the same experiences vs. conscripts with Aetaos'rau'keres. Volume of fire is surprisingly lethal to the big daemon models, it's honestly scarier than actual anti-heavy fire like lascannons since we can just save those fairly easily and command reroll if we don't.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 03:44:24


Post by: Cephalobeard


Had a game tonight against DKOK. 4 Thudd guns and 2 Malcador Infernus gunning towards my lines.

Mission 1 in Eternal war.

Won 14-1, losing only first blood. Must of summoned 50-60 extra Brimstone horrors, and there was nothing he could do to target my characters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Images show turn 1-5, at the end of each turn.

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Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 05:20:41


Post by: Virules


I won an 18 person ITC tournament today against some very active local and national tournament players. I finished just ahead of the same guy who won the GT in Idaho last week. I beat a list just like it in the final game, in pretty brutal fashion. I used Aetos and he was great.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 11:09:14


Post by: Darksider


 Virules wrote:
I won an 18 person ITC tournament today against some very active local and national tournament players. I finished just ahead of the same guy who won the GT in Idaho last week. I beat a list just like it in the final game, in pretty brutal fashion. I used Aetos and he was great.


Sounds good =).


What was the rest of your army?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 11:49:34


Post by: 0604854


What are people's thoughts on Zarakynel?

What are people's thoughts on mono Slaanesh?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 11:56:22


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Hmmm, interesting feedback on the GUO. You would have thought it would be that difficult to take down a 10 wound T7 GUO, even with the 5++ I guess the DR helps alot.

The GUO is also cheap enough in points such that the is plenty in the rest of the army to worry about.



Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 12:52:04


Post by: Cephalobeard


Very excited to try Aetaos. Can you give any more details on how he played?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 15:01:29


Post by: Derp Angels Librarian


What are people's thoughts on Zarakynel?


Overall, I find him to be very effective both against tough characters and hordes. The 4+ chance to deal 3 mortal wounds is great against units with high invul saves, and mortal wounds combined with Ld debuff aura will destroy mass infantry as well.

Also, his special rule that allows him to fall back and still charge combines very well with the 'Legendary Fighter' warlord trait. This mean you can still get +1 attack even when locked in combat by falling back and charge in again.





Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 16:33:47


Post by: Rydria


Does disgustingly resilient protect you from mortal wounds ?

Edit: The way Mephiston seemingly has the same ability but worded different threw me off (since his specifically mentions mortal wounds, though I assume they streamlined the wording after they wrote his sheet)


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 16:35:25


Post by: Cephalobeard


Sure does. One roll per wound.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 16:39:20


Post by: Rydria


 Cephalobeard wrote:
Sure does. One roll per wound.
Thanks Mephiston confused me, since he has the same ability but worded completely different.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 17:18:48


Post by: Vomikron Noxis


Captyn_Bob wrote:
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/40K_8th_ed_Update_Index_Chaos_ver_1.0.pdf

Fatey just got his 4++ back


And only 8 wounds for DPs, weirdly making them hella better!


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 17:45:16


Post by: Kuklops


What are Plaguebearers and Nurglings like to support a shooting CSM list?

To deal with hordes I'm taking a dual gatling cannon Knight & 3x dual soulburner Decimators and I need something tough to screen them.

I was thinking of 30 Plaguebearers as a screen with a Herald. -1 to hit, T4, S5 and 5+/5+ is better than Cultists. Herald can restore wounds to the Decimators if I mark them as Nurgle.

Then use 2x6 units of Nurglings to secure objectives and screen areas I might want to hold my opponent up at. That, or just bubble wrap against Deep Strikers.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 18:28:14


Post by: rvd1ofakind


Wait, so why would you ever take CSM DPs now?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 18:51:51


Post by: Captyn_Bob


 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Wait, so why would you ever take CSM DPs now?


Well, they have a buff to Legion units, and can get warptime. But yeah.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 20:38:52


Post by: labmouse42


 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Wait, so why would you ever take CSM DPs now?
If you want them to be buffed by your CSM leaders, or gain the CSM spell list..


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 21:03:06


Post by: avedominusnox


Different powers, better buff aura and higher LD.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 21:33:45


Post by: Virules


 Darksider wrote:
 Virules wrote:
I won an 18 person ITC tournament today against some very active local and national tournament players. I finished just ahead of the same guy who won the GT in Idaho last week. I beat a list just like it in the final game, in pretty brutal fashion. I used Aetos and he was great.


Sounds good =).


What was the rest of your army?


I posted my army and who I played against on my blog: http://facebook.com/hexfleetvirules

Aetos was my swiss army knife and was key to dealing with all the flying vehicle spam. I also used him to multi assault armies with lots of MSU infantry. When possibly, I used treason of tzeentch to multi assault with an enemy character first to minimize overwatch. I forgot that Zara bleeds over on mortal wounds, which would have helped. Magnus died 2/3 games, Zara in 1/3, Aetos never died. I'm changing up my list a bit for a big GT next week.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 21:55:54


Post by: Rydria


 Virules wrote:
 Darksider wrote:
 Virules wrote:
I won an 18 person ITC tournament today against some very active local and national tournament players. I finished just ahead of the same guy who won the GT in Idaho last week. I beat a list just like it in the final game, in pretty brutal fashion. I used Aetos and he was great.


Sounds good =).


What was the rest of your army?


I posted my army and who I played against on my blog: http://facebook.com/hexfleetvirules

Aetos was my swiss army knife and was key to dealing with all the flying vehicle spam. I also used him to multi assault armies with lots of MSU infantry. When possibly, I used treason of tzeentch to multi assault with an enemy character first to minimize overwatch. I forgot that Zara bleeds over on mortal wounds, which would have helped. Magnus died 2/3 games, Zara in 1/3, Aetos never died. I'm changing up my list a bit for a big GT next week.
I noticed you plan to use exalted chariots over regular ones, I happen to own 7 seeker chariots and and a pair of exalted chariots and I wondered if you would be willing to share your idea with me. For your monoslaanesh list.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 21:58:13


Post by: luke1705


Captyn_Bob wrote:
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/40K_8th_ed_Update_Index_Chaos_ver_1.0.pdf

Fatey just got his 4++ back


He never lost it

Glad they fixed that. Definitely makes him worthwhile over a LOC now IMO


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 22:12:02


Post by: astro_nomicon


 luke1705 wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/40K_8th_ed_Update_Index_Chaos_ver_1.0.pdf

Fatey just got his 4++ back


He never lost it

Glad they fixed that. Definitely makes him worthwhile over a LOC now IMO


How do you justify him over Magnus though? The D3 extra command points and leadership sharing don't seem to justify being less durable and decidedly less killy in every other phase of the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I apologize for consistently harping on this subject, but I'm still really salty about Fateweavers sidegrade from versatile force multiplier toolbox to sub par beatstick.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/02 22:28:46


Post by: Cephalobeard


Fateweaver isn't great. It's unfortunate. Here's hoping codexes give us something more.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 04:06:00


Post by: rvd1ofakind


 astro_nomicon wrote:
 luke1705 wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/40K_8th_ed_Update_Index_Chaos_ver_1.0.pdf

Fatey just got his 4++ back


He never lost it

Glad they fixed that. Definitely makes him worthwhile over a LOC now IMO


How do you justify him over Magnus though? The D3 extra command points and leadership sharing don't seem to justify being less durable and decidedly less killy in every other phase of the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I apologize for consistently harping on this subject, but I'm still really salty about Fateweavers sidegrade from versatile force multiplier toolbox to sub par beatstick.


Both LoCs are just bad. Just take Magnus and more DPs instead.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 04:16:20


Post by: luke1705


 astro_nomicon wrote:
 luke1705 wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/40K_8th_ed_Update_Index_Chaos_ver_1.0.pdf

Fatey just got his 4++ back


He never lost it

Glad they fixed that. Definitely makes him worthwhile over a LOC now IMO


How do you justify him over Magnus though? The D3 extra command points and leadership sharing don't seem to justify being less durable and decidedly less killy in every other phase of the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I apologize for consistently harping on this subject, but I'm still really salty about Fateweavers sidegrade from versatile force multiplier toolbox to sub par beatstick.


Oh I don't. He's not better than Magnus. I don't think taking both of them is an awful idea though, but it's not as good as daemon princes of course. I'm just glad that he's not objectively worse than a LOC.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 04:18:22


Post by: rvd1ofakind


Yes, now he's just a subjectively worse LoC


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 09:07:27


Post by: 0604854


 Rydria wrote:
 Virules wrote:
 Darksider wrote:
 Virules wrote:
I won an 18 person ITC tournament today against some very active local and national tournament players. I finished just ahead of the same guy who won the GT in Idaho last week. I beat a list just like it in the final game, in pretty brutal fashion. I used Aetos and he was great.


Sounds good =).


What was the rest of your army?


I posted my army and who I played against on my blog: http://facebook.com/hexfleetvirules

Aetos was my swiss army knife and was key to dealing with all the flying vehicle spam. I also used him to multi assault armies with lots of MSU infantry. When possibly, I used treason of tzeentch to multi assault with an enemy character first to minimize overwatch. I forgot that Zara bleeds over on mortal wounds, which would have helped. Magnus died 2/3 games, Zara in 1/3, Aetos never died. I'm changing up my list a bit for a big GT next week.
I noticed you plan to use exalted chariots over regular ones, I happen to own 7 seeker chariots and and a pair of exalted chariots and I wondered if you would be willing to share your idea with me. For your monoslaanesh list.


I would also be interested in your mono Slaanesh army


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am thinking of an army built around decimators, they look awesome and easy to buff as they have <legion> <mark of chaos> and <daemon> I am just trying to decide which mark to go for, I am thinking Tzeentch can bring Magnus and Aetaos for a nasty team up. Nurgle could use Epidemus to buff them as well as Death guard support. Slaanesh look the weakest whilst khorne does not really add much.

So drawing inspiration from: http://facebook.com/hexfleetvirules

I think I am going to have Aetaos, Magnus, Decimators, Changeling and other units to fill in the gaps (namely anything that can deal with hordes).


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 12:16:06


Post by: Cephalobeard


Having Aetaos and Magnus together seems like having all your eggs in one Basket-- Aetaos alone I can justify, as he's realistically only 150 or so pts more than a loaded out Knight. Both, though... I'm not sure. Could work, certainly, but i've found one of the first things I cut from all my "dream team" lists for my Daemons has been Magnus, unfortunately.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 12:25:52


Post by: 0604854


 Cephalobeard wrote:
Having Aetaos and Magnus together seems like having all your eggs in one Basket-- Aetaos alone I can justify, as he's realistically only 150 or so pts more than a loaded out Knight. Both, though... I'm not sure. Could work, certainly, but i've found one of the first things I cut from all my "dream team" lists for my Daemons has been Magnus, unfortunately.


What's been your problem with Magnus?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 12:32:27


Post by: Cephalobeard


Specifically I've just found myself wanting to use multiple other targets instead. I can get 6 Exalted Flamers, 4 Heralds on Discs, etc for the same price point. Purely because the Character* rule is as strong as it is, these things then tend to end up being more defensive and lasting longer than Magnus.

Don't get me wrong, he's incredible. Tzeentch just seems skewed to be doing slightly different things, and as it currently stands Daemons have a large advantage in their ability to use multiple characters.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 12:36:45


Post by: 0604854


 Cephalobeard wrote:
Specifically I've just found myself wanting to use multiple other targets instead. I can get 6 Exalted Flamers, 4 Heralds on Discs, etc for the same price point. Purely because the Character* rule is as strong as it is, these things then tend to end up being more defensive and lasting longer than Magnus.

Don't get me wrong, he's incredible. Tzeentch just seems skewed to be doing slightly different things, and as it currently stands Daemons have a large advantage in their ability to use multiple characters.


The thing with Magnus is he is not a defensive unit but an aggressive unit, will Magnus probably die during the battle-yes, but along the way he will cause a good amount of damage and distract firepower from other tough targets (namely decimators) would I have him as my warlord- No never in this list but as an agressive option for me he is better than most other options for the points


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 12:38:35


Post by: Cephalobeard


Certainly. He's a beatstick.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 12:44:22


Post by: 0604854


 Cephalobeard wrote:
Certainly. He's a beatstick.


And that's what I want for this army, I want to be agressive and the decimators, Magnus and Aetaos allow me to do that. The changeling will help with survivor ability, horrors for cheap objective scoring and other units to take care of hordes (possibly flamers etc.)

the army from: http://facebook.com/hexfleetvirules had Zarakynel as well as Magnus and Aetaos and won a tournament! Now for me I prefer to go mono god and with Decimators being demon and legion they seem perfect, could I look at other demon engines- sure but I just don't know whether they will be as effective for the points as Decimators.

http://facebook.com/hexfleetvirules tournament win was interesting, he did not really face a true horde list so it would have been interesting to see how he's list would have performed against those armies.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 12:51:27


Post by: Cephalobeard


My concern for Aetaos and Magnus w/ Changeling is that Aetaos and Magnus drastically outspeed the Changeling.

I certainly can't say the list isn't effective, it won, but perhaps that's more a testament to the general than the models.

My vision of Aetaos, while still untested and as a result worth plenty of salt, is to also keep him along with the Changeling, but to keep him back for a turn or two while Heralds/Horrors advance steadily toward the enemy.

Mass rate of fire is what takes down these large units, and the -1 to Hit from the changeling is a TERRIFYING debuff to them,



Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 12:56:17


Post by: 0604854


 Cephalobeard wrote:
My concern for Aetaos and Magnus w/ Changeling is that Aetaos and Magnus drastically outspeed the Changeling.

I certainly can't say the list isn't effective, it won, but perhaps that's more a testament to the general than the models.

My vision of Aetaos, while still untested and as a result worth plenty of salt, is to also keep him along with the Changeling, but to keep him back for a turn or two while Heralds/Horrors advance steadily toward the enemy.

Mass rate of fire is what takes down these large units, and the -1 to Hit from the changeling is a TERRIFYING debuff to them,



Hmmm Well if your holding back Aetaos then you could if you wanted too hold back Magnus and use warptime on some other unit (perhaps a combat decimator)

Also the changeling has decent range: 6" move plus advance and the power has 9" range (that is an effective range of 16"-21" to keep up with Magnus)


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 13:00:14


Post by: Cephalobeard


Aetaos has a 60" Weapon and a 50" Smite, he's able to stay effective in the back.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 13:02:21


Post by: 0604854


Hmmm Well if your holding back Aetaos then you could if you wanted too hold back Magnus and use warptime on some other unit (perhaps a combat decimator)

Also the changeling has decent range: 6" move plus advance and the power has 9" range (that is an effective range of 16"-21" to keep up with Magnus)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok for Magnus LOS blocking terrain is important, he flies behind it BUT still in range of the changeling, the rest of the force marches forward the changeling buffing as he goes. The opponent then has a choice, advance to get clear LOS on Magnus or bring in reserves knowing he will have to commit a substantial portion of he's force to kill him. Or they will have to sit back focus fire on everything else knowing that Magnus will have him turn 2 or 3 (whenever you want) along with the rest of the force.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One army I have been trying to get off the ground is Slaanesh, Zarakynel looks good, Fiends may have potential but beyond that I am not sure


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 15:32:00


Post by: Virules


I use the Changeling as protection vs turn 1 alpha strikes, to protect my brimstones, for extra smiting, for emergency melee, and only rarely for -1 to hit on Magnus or Aetos past turn 1 (i.e., I am in the middle of the board with Changeling and he happens to reach 9" into enemy deployment zone where Magnus and Aetos are probably at).

You really need to have all 3 big daemons going full-on assault and getting to the enemy as fast as possible in order for them to make up their points cost. I will sometimes fly away with Magnus once he looks to be in trouble, but that's it. If nothing else, you want to multi-assault non-flying units to keep them from shooting you each turn. You also need to be in short range for many of the powers. Plus, you need to position yourself to optimize smite targets. Aetos can kill a character or a vehicle (including flying vehicles) in combat each turn, so keeping him back is a waste. I would only stay in the back if I am facing a 95% assault army and I want them to come to me so I can counter assault and strike first.

I am revising my army list to try to do more vs hordes but in retrospect I think I can do decently well vs hordes with psychic powers to target out aura characters and with zarakynel doing mortal wounds that bleeds over + psychic power to attack twice. I am a little worried about a strong tyranids list with fast hordes, shadow in the warp, and strong melee creatures, but we'll see...and that kind of army is good versus everything but flying vehicles anyway.

I have lots of all Nurgle armies I've tried at my blog, if you go back through my posts. I also gave my Slaanesh list in the comments of the post about my tournament win.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 16:21:09


Post by: Cephalobeard


Hordes can be an issue.

I'm still thinking something along the lines of:

Aetaos, 6 Exalted Flamers, 6 Heralds on Discs, 6x 1 Blue 9 Brim, Changeling.

Exalted flamers do very well against infantry, Heralds put out a respectable number of smites, etc.

Either way, very excited to actuall try Aetaos on the table. I agree with trying to make him as aggressive as possible.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 19:51:35


Post by: Galef


So now that <Daemon> Daemon Princes are less than 10W, it seems we can have our cake and eat it too (i.e. be untargetable and benefit from "Daemon of ____")

I'm thinking Nurgle and Tzeentch Princes are the best, but even then you only take the Tz ones once you have 2-3 Nurgle ones already. In Matched play you can only cast a power once, so once you exhaust the Nurgle discipline, you start to get more out of Tzeentch.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 20:22:57


Post by: rvd1ofakind


What's a good artilery unit for Daemons. I don't want to add CSM stuff unless they benefit from daemon buffs like Obliterators, fiends, lord of skulls...


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 20:26:05


Post by: Debilitate


Fiends are kinda chumpy but they prevent dudes from leaving combat which is very good


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 20:59:31


Post by: Asura Varuna


I kinda regret converting 10 fiends back in the day because they've been consistenly poor. They cost too much, are too fragile and don't do enough damage. If they had a rule which allowed them to charge 3d6, or had some way to improve their charge range, I'd be all over them. They'd be a nice little tool to summon on a character already in combat/about to charge, to prevent your opponent from trying to fall back from combat. Unfortunately, they'll almost never make the charge directly from being summoned and are neither durable nor fast enough to start on the table.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 21:05:20


Post by: Debilitate


The rule is super incredible but you said it all, they're slow and aren't tough enough to survive to get anywhere. If they were higher toughness or faster that would've been a different story..


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 21:22:27


Post by: Rydria


Fiends should be strength 5 like they where in 4th/5th, they where actually a really good unit back then who sadly got overshadowed by bloodcrusher, they then got randomly nerffed in 6th .

Losing 1 strength, 2 attack, hit and run, while also going up in cost I never understood the reasoning for it, I mean at first when we thought they could prevent people fighting back with that -5 initiative thing but then that got removed :/

Edit: Does no one else find it weird that spawn, terminators, Nobs, other beasts/cav went up by 1 wound but Fiends remained at 3 wounds ?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/03 22:34:18


Post by: Asura Varuna


Fiends were one of the best daemon units for most of the 5th, prior to the Tzeentch WD releases. Fateweaver and Bloodcrushers had their place, but Fiends seemed to be the cornerstone of Daemons lists at the time. They were nerfed because they were so strong, and just never really recovered as the editions rotated around...

I wonder if GW has a chart somewhere of each unit and which editions it was good in. And if it was good in one interation, it simply won't be any good for at least a couple of editions. Obviously this isn't how it works, because it would have to work on the premise that GW a) understand their game, b) care about balance and c) deliberately attempt to make the old "OP" trash in order to sell new models. It's a nice thought though, given the lack of other reasonable explanation.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/04 03:51:49


Post by: Sersi


Back in the 4th/5th Edition Fiends were awesome as were the original chariots. You could even buy unholy might on the unit champion for S6. They just torrented vehicles and anything else to death. I use to max them out in every list, sadly you could only take 18. They were probably too good at the time. They've been rubbish ever since. But back then you could run a mono-god list for any of the god and, and still have a powerful list. From the 6th on GW kept trying to force synergy between the four gods. So, if you wanted anti-tank you needed Tzeentch for shooting, for objective camping some Nurgle, and Khorne for...well nothing apparently. But now that you pretty much need/want to run Mono-god lists again. They needed to give each god's army some viable anti-tank. Fiends needed to at least S5 or perhaps 2X damage on their rends wounds to really have a place. Slaaneshi armies did't need any more anti-infantry; they need more fast anti-vehicle.

That said they are cheap drops and one of the few single model elite units we can take. So you can cheaply pad out you detachment for command points. Plus being able to lock non-flying opponents in melee is still useful.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/04 04:22:03


Post by: peirceg


Can you voluntarily take a morale check for a unit of daemons (the kind of check you would autopass thanks to ld vs casualties)? If so this would be a cool way to get back mdels with an icon that have been killed previously.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/04 04:25:21


Post by: Sersi


peirceg wrote:
Can you voluntarily take a morale check for a unit of daemons (the kind of check you would autopass thanks to ld vs casualties)? If so this would be a cool way to get back mdels with an icon that have been killed previously.


There's nothing in the rules that I've seen that would allow that. But even if you could it still would be worth it with a 16.7% chance of success.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/04 04:44:38


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


While you can't voluntarily take a Morale check, you are forced to if any models from the unit have been slain - even if you haven't lost enough to fail.

So say in Turn 1, you lose 5 Daemons from a unit with a Ld of 7 or better & then pass your morale check but don't roll a 1, then in Turn 2 you lose 1 model. If there's no leadership/morale modifiers here's no way for you to fail this. However you still have to take the check. You then roll a 1 and get D6 Daemons back.

That said, I believe the auto-pass stratagem also means you don't roll - but I'd have to go check.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/04 05:26:19


Post by: Belsibub


Sorry, but I got to ask.
You are saying that Papa has a 4++ save, where can I find that?
Probably i'm missing something


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/04 05:42:22


Post by: Rydria


 Sersi wrote:
Back in the 4th/5th Edition Fiends were awesome as were the original chariots. You could even buy unholy might on the unit champion for S6. They just torrented vehicles and anything else to death. I use to max them out in every list, sadly you could only take 18. They were probably too good at the time. They've been rubbish ever since. But back then you could run a mono-god list for any of the god and, and still have a powerful list. From the 6th on GW kept trying to force synergy between the four gods. So, if you wanted anti-tank you needed Tzeentch for shooting, for objective camping some Nurgle, and Khorne for...well nothing apparently. But now that you pretty much need/want to run Mono-god lists again. They needed to give each god's army some viable anti-tank. Fiends needed to at least S5 or perhaps 2X damage on their rends wounds to really have a place. Slaaneshi armies did't need any more anti-infantry; they need more fast anti-vehicle.

That said they are cheap drops and one of the few single model elite units we can take. So you can cheaply pad out you detachment for command points. Plus being able to lock non-flying opponents in melee is still useful.
I was actually annoyed when they released the new chariot kit, not because they released it but because they nerffed them into vehicles, when they where previously awesome as cavalry.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/04 08:50:31


Post by: 0604854


OK so I am trying to get mono slaanesh (with possible support from daemon engines from CSM as they are daemons too!) off the ground. For me the best build seems to be full on chariots (lots and lots of chariots) Daemonettes seem good if you can get them in (the problem being getting them in combat), now what I want to look at is point for point which is the better choice exalted chariots or normal chariots. Exalted chariots cost around 31% more, it starts just as fast but hitting on 2+ and with double the base A. It has Assault D6 lashes that can be used in combat and has double the lashing tongue attacks in combat. It has 10W compared to 6W but does become weaker once it loses 1/2 wounds. I*t's scythes cause mortal wounds on a 5+ and not a 6+.

So it at first glance it looks clear cut, however once you through the Masque in there it becomes more complicated as the smaller chariots then gain -1 to hit in combat compared to the exalted chariots (although you then have to pay for the Masque) and it is easier to hide .

For me the Exalted chariots look like the best choice, in terms of survivor-ability for their points, the general problem will be not surviving in combat but getting into combat and the exalted chariots are better at that, yes at 50% they move down to M10 but at that point a smaller chariot may already be dead and even at 50% I believe it will still cause similar if not more damage than a normal seeker.

Ok so my thoughts on the list are developing, I need something to deal with tanks and heavily armoured targets so I am thinking Zarakynel along with Daemon engine support (maybe decimators or Mauler fiends), I will then add Belakor to buff the demons as well as Warptime my damon engines. Also he's - 1 LD will stack with Zarakynels for potential combo's.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/04 18:42:18


Post by: Sersi


So, thoughts of the Slaaneshi Chariots now?

There much more resilient, now that the rider can't be targeted in melee anymore. For the first time since we got official models; chariot have rules where you actually want them in combat. The new rules make them similar to the original 4th Edition Herald chariots, with more wounds and higher strength. In the 4th/5th I used to take 4 herald chariots, they were cheap and for Slaanesh tough models that could charge in and hold up units; now I can use the to tar-pit again and survive their first combat.

Impact Hits:

In the 6th and 7th chariots were at best a distraction unit they either exploded spectacularly before doing anything or whiffed their D6 HOW attacks and then died. But then came the Grand Cavalcade formation with its +1D6 HOW attacks and allowing you to field 7 chariots for 385 pts. All of the sudden chariot could do work, it they didn't die before making the charge they could delete units. Sadly, the Cavalcade is gone now and the Scything Impact ability is not nearly as good a their old Hammer of Wrath ability was. Even assuming you get 6 models within 6", say by turning the chariot side ways; with average rolls that's just a single mortal wound. By comparison in a Grand Cavalcade is a chariot made the charge you were looking at 7-10 S4/AP-/Rending auto hits on a successful charge. You were still averaging 1-1.8 rends, but the non rending attacks would on average kill an additional 1-2 Marines, or 4-5 Orks/Guard. Scything impact should really trigger on a 4+ roll like it does in AOS.

Anti-vehicle:

With the exception of the Hellflayer the chariots aren't very effective against monsters or vehicles. Their scything impact can at best can do a single mortal wound to them on the charge; and their melee attacks are S4/AP-1/Rending. The Hellflayer is better against monsters and vehicles with D6 attacks at S8/AP-1/Dam 2. So, on average that's 3 attacks and assuming they all hit, wound and aren't saved 6 damage. Not bad but it could have used more AP.

I'm not saying their bad, I actually like the changes but they are very different than their last incarnation. Since I have 12 its not like I'd stopped playing them anyway. It just seems strange that all those whirling blades are more of a bonus now than the main focus of the models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Rydria wrote:


I was actually annoyed when they released the new chariot kit, not because they released it but because they nerffed them into vehicles, when they where previously awesome as cavalry.


I remember that day were I picked up my models, flipped open the "Official Chaos Daemons Update" and..."Hello darkness my old friend..." Nerfed into uselessness, but hey I can take them as heavy support and attack now. Yeah?
Of course, the same pamphlet wanked screamers to stupid levels of power. I guess they really wanted to sell those but not the chariots for some reason. I'm not sure why it took them 3-4 attempts to finally get chariots right again.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/05 07:37:39


Post by: 0604854


Are the chariots great vs tanks not really, they can do a bit through massed attacks but thats it, however their are units I can play to fill that role instead. The army will have daemon princes as well as possibly support from maulerfiends.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/05 13:14:41


Post by: Cephalobeard


FLG gave out the ominous "I'm sure you can put two and two together as to why," regarding Brimstone horrors not being "addressed" in the FAQ.

I recognize my bias about my own army, but I genuinely wonder what people think the solution to horrors is, considering there's a very simple reason as to why no one uses the 240pt full split unit.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/05 22:53:50


Post by: andysonic1


 Cephalobeard wrote:
FLG gave out the ominous "I'm sure you can put two and two together as to why," regarding Brimstone horrors not being "addressed" in the FAQ.
From their other comments they clearly have seen (and perhaps playtested) the codexs so they know full well that changes to units are coming. When they hint that you shouldn't do something, you probably shouldn't do it.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/05 23:08:24


Post by: Cephalobeard


I'm well aware.

I just don't view them as "problem children" the same way. Horrors, that is.

Here's hoping GW stops trying to force split, and eases the reigns on the useless and expensive option, making the spam less viable instead.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/05 23:13:28


Post by: Rydria


 Sersi wrote:
So, thoughts of the Slaaneshi Chariots now?

There much more resilient, now that the rider can't be targeted in melee anymore. For the first time since we got the white dwarf chariot rules you actually want them in combat again. The new rules make them similar to the original 4th Edition Herald chariots, with more wounds and higher strength. In the 4th/5th I used to take 4 herald chariots, they were cheap and for Slaanesh tough models that could charge in and hold up units; now I can use the to tar-pit again and survive their first combat.

Impact Hits:

In the 6th and 7th chariots were at best a distraction unit they either exploded spectacularly before doing anything or whiffed their D6 HOW attacks and then died. But then came the Grand Cavalcade formation with its +1D6 HOW attacks and allowing you to field 7 chariots for 385 pts. All of the sudden chariot could do work, it they didn't die before making the charge they could delete units. Sadly, the Cavalcade is gone now and the Scything Impact ability is not nearly as good a their old Hammer of Wrath ability was. Even assuming you get 6 models within 6", say by turning the chariot side ways; with average rolls that's just a single mortal wound. By comparison in a Grand Cavalcade is a chariot made the charge you were looking at 7-10 S4/AP-/Rending auto hits on a successful charge. You were still averaging 1-1.8 rends, but the non rending attacks would on average kill an additional 1-2 Marines, or 4-5 Orks/Guard. Scything impact should really trigger on a 4+ roll like it does in AOS.

Anti-vehicle:

With the exception of the Hellflayer the chariots are very effective against monsters or vehicles. Their scything impact can at best can do a single mortal wound to them on the charge; and their melee attacks are S4/AP-1/Rending. The Hellflayer is better against monsters and vehicles with D6 attacks at S8/AP-1/Dam 2. So, on average that's 3 attacks and assuming they all hit, wound and aren't saved 6 damage. Not bad but it could have used more AP.

I'm not saying their bad, I actually like the changes but they are very different than their last incarnation. Since I have 12 its not like I'd stopped playing them anyway. It just seems strange that all those whirling blades are more of a bonus now than the main focus of the models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Rydria wrote:


I was actually annoyed when they released the new chariot kit, not because they released it but because they nerffed them into vehicles, when they where previously awesome as cavalry.


I remember that day were I picked up my models, flipped open the "Official Chaos Daemons Update" and..."Hello darkness my old friend..." Nerfed into uselessness, but hey I can take them as heavy support and attack now. Yeah?
Of course, the same pamphlet wanked screamers to stupid levels of power. I guess they really wanted to sell those but not the chariots for some reason. I'm not sure why it took them 3-4 attempts to finally get chariots right again.


Seeker Chariots with heralds on them are ridiculously good, i fielded 3 today and they where absolutely incredible, 10 attacks 2+ attacks each, 7 wounds, strength 5, toughness 5 ability to throw out smite every turn, on turns where they are locked in combat, they have a potential 20 attacks because of hysterical frenzy, there basically discounted talon princes (they can't even be shot by ranged shooting)


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/06 00:21:49


Post by: Arachnofiend


 andysonic1 wrote:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
FLG gave out the ominous "I'm sure you can put two and two together as to why," regarding Brimstone horrors not being "addressed" in the FAQ.
From their other comments they clearly have seen (and perhaps playtested) the codexs so they know full well that changes to units are coming. When they hint that you shouldn't do something, you probably shouldn't do it.

Weird that they'd wait for the codex to fix them if they think brimstones are a problem, considering how the Chaos Daemon codex isn't set up to be released for a while.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/06 00:39:03


Post by: Eldenfirefly


What's the best way to handle flying aircraft armies? Flying daemon princes? I have a friend who brings 3 storm ravens in his army. Enables him to deliver hard hitting troops where ever he wants plus the 3 storm ravens themselves hit really hard. (And can't be attacked by ground troops).

On average, we need two princes to take on 1 storm raven? Have to assume he will get the first attack since those things can fly so far while our daemon princes can only fly 12 inches. Does this mean I need like 6 princes ? Sounds like an arm race already at this point... zzzz Next thing I know, he will have 4 ravens and then I need 8 princes... lol


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/06 01:15:13


Post by: labmouse42


 andysonic1 wrote:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
FLG gave out the ominous "I'm sure you can put two and two together as to why," regarding Brimstone horrors not being "addressed" in the FAQ.
From their other comments they clearly have seen (and perhaps playtested) the codexs so they know full well that changes to units are coming. When they hint that you shouldn't do something, you probably shouldn't do it.
+1 to this.

I've always tried to avoid 'jumping on the bandwagon' to chase the unit that was the flavor of the month. It will eventually get nurfed into the ground.
I perfer to get really good at a few armies and stick with them until I get bored.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
What's the best way to handle flying aircraft armies? Flying daemon princes? I have a friend who brings 3 storm ravens in his army. Enables him to deliver hard hitting troops where ever he wants plus the 3 storm ravens themselves hit really hard. (And can't be attacked by ground troops).
Last weekend someone I was playing brought a hemlock fighter.
I used smite on it 4 times over two rounds, knocking off 8 wounds. I then assaulted it with my plague drones, killing it.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/06 01:23:11


Post by: rkempey002


So what is working for everyone? I'm starting to get back into 8th edition playing my Chaos Daemons. I was thinking of a balanced list with some Tzeentch and some Nurgle. How are Plague Drones this edition? Tzeentch or Nurgle for Daemon Princes? Would love to start a discussion about what's working and what's not.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/06 01:41:11


Post by: Sersi


 Rydria wrote:
 Sersi wrote:


Seeker Chariots with heralds on them are ridiculously good, i fielded 3 today and they where absolutely incredible, 10 attacks 2+ attacks each, 7 wounds, strength 5, toughness 5 ability to throw out smite every turn, on turns where they are locked in combat, they have a potential 20 attacks because of hysterical frenzy, there basically discounted talon princes (they can't even be shot by ranged shooting)


Hmmm... I hadn't thought of going heavy on Herald chariots; but that does sound good. How are you running them; three Heralds along with some normal Seeker Chariots as well? Have you used them to summon once their in combat?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/06 03:04:19


Post by: Rydria


 Sersi wrote:
 Rydria wrote:

Seeker Chariots with heralds on them are ridiculously good, i fielded 3 today and they where absolutely incredible, 10 attacks 2+ attacks each, 7 wounds, strength 5, toughness 5 ability to throw out smite every turn, on turns where they are locked in combat, they have a potential 20 attacks because of hysterical frenzy, there basically discounted talon princes (they can't even be shot by ranged shooting)


Hmmm... I hadn't thought of going heavy on Herald chariots; but that does sound good. How are you running them; three Heralds along with some normal Seeker Chariots as well? Have you used them to summon once their in combat?
I haven't summoned yet since I filled my entire pts allowance and generally like to foot slog across the board, I am considering making room in my points so I can summon fiends to keep units locked in combat.

This is the list I ran, game was weird because half my opponents army was terminators and supposedly you can declare you're placing a unit by saying you're putting them into deep strike reserve, so I had to deploy 5 units onto the table before he even had to put 1 thing on the table and he denied me a flank when he got around to placing everything that couldn't deep strike (which made 30 Daemonettes never see action they just sat on an objective, while the other 60 took 2 turns to reach each combat) game was big guns never tire.

Supreme Command
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (frenzy)
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (frenzy)
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (symphony)
x1 Zarakynel (warlord 6+ Feel no pain trait) (Choir, frenzy) (Really powerful and did very well, but i'm considering dropping her for 2 more chariots + a talon prince)

Battalion
x1 Herald of slaanesh (foot) (symphony)
x1 masque of Slaanesh (absolutely amazing have her escort 2 large blobs)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x5 Seekers (Musician)
x5 Seekers (Musician)

As for the performance of the seeker chariots a pair of them which moved together most of the game killed 5 deathwing terminators, and 5 deathwing knights in two turns, 10 strength 5 attacks 6 of those at -1 rend, + smite every turn is really nasty, was also quite funny using choir on terminators so they failed to hit my chariots.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/06 03:46:22


Post by: Cryonicleech


How is everyone finding Plague Drones this edition? Should I just be fielding them naked?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/06 03:49:12


Post by: BlaxicanX


 Rydria wrote:
 Sersi wrote:
 Rydria wrote:

Seeker Chariots with heralds on them are ridiculously good, i fielded 3 today and they where absolutely incredible, 10 attacks 2+ attacks each, 7 wounds, strength 5, toughness 5 ability to throw out smite every turn, on turns where they are locked in combat, they have a potential 20 attacks because of hysterical frenzy, there basically discounted talon princes (they can't even be shot by ranged shooting)


Hmmm... I hadn't thought of going heavy on Herald chariots; but that does sound good. How are you running them; three Heralds along with some normal Seeker Chariots as well? Have you used them to summon once their in combat?
I haven't summoned yet since I filled my entire pts allowance and generally like to foot slog across the board, I am considering making room in my points so I can summon fiends to keep units locked in combat.

This is the list I ran, game was weird because half my opponents army was terminators and supposedly you can declare you're placing a unit by saying you're putting them into deep strike reserve, so I had to deploy 5 units onto the table before he even had to put 1 thing on the table and he denied me a flank when he got around to placing everything that couldn't deep strike (which made 30 Daemonettes never see action they just sat on an objective, while the other 60 took 2 turns to reach each combat) game was big guns never tire.

Supreme Command
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (frenzy)
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (frenzy)
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (symphony)
x1 Zarakynel (warlord 6+ Feel no pain trait) (Choir, frenzy) (Really powerful and did very well, but i'm considering dropping her for 2 more chariots + a talon prince)

Battalion
x1 Herald of slaanesh (foot) (symphony)
x1 masque of Slaanesh (absolutely amazing have her escort 2 large blobs)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x5 Seekers (Musician)
x5 Seekers (Musician)

As for the performance of the seeker chariots a pair of them which moved together most of the game killed 5 deathwing terminators, and 5 deathwing knights in two turns, 10 strength 5 attacks 6 of those at -1 rend, + smite every turn is really nasty, was also quite funny using choir on terminators so they failed to hit my chariots.
I can't think of a list that I'd want to fight less with a terminator army then this.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/06 06:59:23


Post by: Sersi


 Rydria wrote:


Supreme Command
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (frenzy)
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (frenzy)
x1 Herald on seeker chariot (symphony)
x1 Zarakynel (warlord 6+ Feel no pain trait) (Choir, frenzy) (Really powerful and did very well, but i'm considering dropping her for 2 more chariots + a talon prince)

Battalion
x1 Herald of slaanesh (foot) (symphony)
x1 masque of Slaanesh (absolutely amazing have her escort 2 large blobs)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x30 daemonettes (Musician)
x5 Seekers (Musician)
x5 Seekers (Musician)

As for the performance of the seeker chariots a pair of them which moved together most of the game killed 5 deathwing terminators, and 5 deathwing knights in two turns, 10 strength 5 attacks 6 of those at -1 rend, + smite every turn is really nasty, was also quite funny using choir on terminators so they failed to hit my chariots.


Oh, I like this list. I have the model so I'll probably try it out this weekend. Was it worth it running the Daemonettes in 30 girl squads? I'd probably go with 20, and spring for a few single Fiends. Mine tend to draw a lot of fire since no one want to be locked in combat.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/06 17:13:59


Post by: Rydria


 BlaxicanX wrote:
]I can't think of a list that I'd want to fight less with a terminator army then this.
His list did have 3 landspeeders with heavy bolters + assault cannons being escorted by samuel in his land speeder (re-roll all to hits is really good) i'm just lucky he spent two turns shooting Zarakynel, and not my infantry horde, though the turn he finally did start shoting them he had to move which crippled his hit rolls since, -1 from moving with heavy weapons and the -1 from the masques aura caused allot of his shots to miss. (can't re-roll 3 - 5 since they hit before the negative modifier is applied)

 Sersi wrote:


Oh, I like this list. I have the model so I'll probably try it out this weekend. Was it worth it running the Daemonettes in 30 girl squads? I'd probably go with 20, and spring for a few single Fiends. Mine tend to draw a lot of fire since no one want to be locked in combat.
It is worth having 2 units in 30 girl squads since you can comfortably keep them in range of the masque who increases there durability (the foot herald also escorts them for +1str), I have been tempted to drop the 3rd squad down to 10(or less) to make room for some summoning, since the squad who hasn't got the masque buff normally get bullied by massed anti infantry fire.

But I've always got the lingering greed, I want my Daemonette squads to arrive with at least 20 models remaining so I get that +1 attack which is quite big, it is one of the reasons I run seekers, there job is to ride on ahead and tie up some shooting, so my Daemonettes can make there way up the board safely to minimize loses, and f they fail to get close enough they will generally get shot over the Daemonettes since there the immediate theat.

opponent list if anyone is interested

Elite detachment (forgot name)
Belial (sword of silence, storm bolter)
Deathwing Liberian (Force sword, storm bolter)
x5 Deathwing terminators (x5 storm bolter, 1 power sword, 4 fists, watcher in the dark)
x5 Deathwing terminators (x5 storm bolter, 1 power sword, 4 fists, watcher in the dark)
x5 Deathwing Knights (x5 storm shields, 1 flail, 4 maces, watcher in the dark)

Fast Attack detachment (forgot name)
Samuel (In land speeder) (x2 assault cannon, x2 heavy bolter)
x4 Ravenwing bikes (x1 power sword)
x4 Ravenwing bikes (x1 power sword)
x3 Ravenwing Land speeders (x3 heavy bolters, x3 Assualt cannons)
x1 dark shroud (x1 assault cannon)


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 14:52:12


Post by: whembly


Had another game against the current top dawg tourny list of 5 stormravens... Lasted until turn 4 before I called it. Against a list like this, your best bet in first turn, is to move your big hitters (magnus, DP, etc...) as far in the back is you can, with the changling and rest of army (brimmies) create a buffer zone to prevent the 2-dice melta-take the highest rolls.

Three things...

1) The Changeling is the most Auto-include HQ I've ever seen... that -1 to hit is simply golden, especially being bottom of 1st turn.

2) Magnus is quite possibly the best all-round monster for his points... I think 415 is an absolute steal.

3) Exalted Flamers performed really well... anyone has experience spamming these guys? Seems like a great distraction/assassination unit to deepstrike in enemy backline or gang up on a particular target.

I'm thinking about fielding Aetaos'rau'keres... but, I can't find his model. Is it this?
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-EU/Lord-of-Change-Greater-Daemon-of-Tzeentch

Seems weird that I cannot find the named deamon on FW... O.o

Anyhoo, if that's the case, would it be kosher for me to simply use the new LoC/Fatey model as proxy for Aetaos? Seems big enough...


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 15:17:40


Post by: xera32


 whembly wrote:

I'm thinking about fielding Aetaos'rau'keres... but, I can't find his model. Is it this?
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-EU/Lord-of-Change-Greater-Daemon-of-Tzeentch

Seems weird that I cannot find the named deamon on FW... O.o

Anyhoo, if that's the case, would it be kosher for me to simply use the new LoC/Fatey model as proxy for Aetaos? Seems big enough...


The FW Lord of Change is the model for Aetaos. And as for using the GW LoC, it is about half the size and a quarter the bulk.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 16:19:09


Post by: Cephalobeard


 whembly wrote:
Had another game against the current top dawg tourny list of 5 stormravens... Lasted until turn 4 before I called it. Against a list like this, your best bet in first turn, is to move your big hitters (magnus, DP, etc...) as far in the back is you can, with the changling and rest of army (brimmies) create a buffer zone to prevent the 2-dice melta-take the highest rolls.

Three things...

1) The Changeling is the most Auto-include HQ I've ever seen... that -1 to hit is simply golden, especially being bottom of 1st turn.

2) Magnus is quite possibly the best all-round monster for his points... I think 415 is an absolute steal.

3) Exalted Flamers performed really well... anyone has experience spamming these guys? Seems like a great distraction/assassination unit to deepstrike in enemy backline or gang up on a particular target.

I'm thinking about fielding Aetaos'rau'keres... but, I can't find his model. Is it this?
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-EU/Lord-of-Change-Greater-Daemon-of-Tzeentch

Seems weird that I cannot find the named deamon on FW... O.o

Anyhoo, if that's the case, would it be kosher for me to simply use the new LoC/Fatey model as proxy for Aetaos? Seems big enough...


I use 12 Exalted Flamers in my list. Yes, it works exactly as horrifyingly well as you'd expect.

Second, absolutely not. Aetaos is supposed to be enormous. I use an Archaon for mine.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 16:58:28


Post by: Galef


Size comparison I found on Google:
Spoiler:


Aetaos is noticeably larger than the new LoC kit.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 17:13:14


Post by: whembly


Lawd... he's a hunk of resin!

Thanks guys!

Also... contemplating on getting more Exalted Flamers...


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 18:07:02


Post by: Galef


The third model in the pic I linked is the UltraForge Vrok (I think). It looks about the size of Aetaos (actually bigger but just squatting down). You could put a set of wings (or rather a second set since his wings are extension of his arms) on his back and make a passable Aetaos


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 18:08:49


Post by: Cephalobeard


With his pose, I don't know if that would work. He's squatting too low and would be able to hide behind terrain, which normal Aetaos cannot. Too close to modeling for advantage, imo.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 18:30:27


Post by: Galef


 Cephalobeard wrote:
With his pose, I don't know if that would work. He's squatting too low and would be able to hide behind terrain, which normal Aetaos cannot. Too close to modeling for advantage, imo.

Are you serious? What kind of terrain do you use that can block LoS for a model that big?
The Vrok is still pretty darn tall. Taller even than the plastic LoC model (not counting wings), which I have NEVER been able to hide behind terrain
I need to play in your area, my Daemons and Eldar would love it!

Even if you play with ridiculously tall LoS blocking terrain, there is a couple ways to make the Vrok fit the same profile as Aetaos:
A) place the model on a tall rock. It's already on a rock, so making that rock bigger and taller is not going to be hard. Then you just count the rock as part of the model
B) Add another set of wings, making sure they are big and tall. Remember, this is not 7E, so wings count now
C) do both A & B

I'm not sure the price for either model, but if the Vrok is even 50% less than Aetaos, it's worth the extra modeling effort

-


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 18:46:09


Post by: Cephalobeard


I'm super serious. You have the photo, you posted it. The Vrock is half the size of Aetaos, and shorter than even a LoC. He can very easily hide behind buildings.

Yes, you can potentially place him "on" things, but I am of the opinion that a standard vrock is absolutely unacceptable as a replacement for Aetaos.

Edit: You have to count the wings. They draw LOS for him to be hit. Aetaos natural model has very large wings, and takes up a very large amount of space.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 19:33:56


Post by: Galef


 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm super serious. You have the photo, you posted it. The Vrock is half the size of Aetaos, and shorter than even a LoC. He can very easily hide behind buildings.

Yes, you can potentially place him "on" things, but I am of the opinion that a standard vrock is absolutely unacceptable as a replacement for Aetaos.

Edit: You have to count the wings. They draw LOS for him to be hit. Aetaos natural model has very large wings, and takes up a very large amount of space.

Which is why I am suggesting adding very tall wings to the Vrok. If you look purely at the body, the Vrok is much bulkier than Aetaos. Add a taller rock and wings as big as Aetaos's and you have a perfectly acceptable Aetaos conversion. (and no, it wouldn't be a proxy or 'counts as", but a true "looks like him" conversion)

What I was in disbelief about is that you have enough terrain in your area that can block the LoS of even the unaltered Vrok. I do not have that luxury in my area, so a model's pose isn't that big of an issue for conversions. Not even kneeling WKs can hide, for example (not that I have one of those, but I've seen it)
There is some tall terrain, but at tourneys, it is few and far between. Most terrain is only about 4-5" tall and/or has plenty of windows to see straight through
I've used the plastic LoC in 7E when wings didn't count and still had a hard time hiding his main body

-


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 19:42:06


Post by: Cephalobeard


Tournaments around me are pretty good and strict about their LOS blocking terrain and ITC buildings. Especially with 8th, it's very important to have it.

Perhaps it's a perspective difference due to differences in our location. As always, check with YOUR TO about a model. As a standard. I check with LVO Judges opinions, so I have a universal standard for if/when I travel.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 19:56:11


Post by: Galef


I can appreciate having a universal standard. Even if you don't travel, it is just a good courtesy for your opponents.

I still think the Vrok can be altered very easily to function identically to Aetaos for LoS purposes no matter what kind of terrain you have. The real issue is how cheap it would be compared to the work needed.
I am pretty sure the Vrok is cheaper than Aetaos but a large margin, but then you have to buy large wings, likely from Magnus or the plastic LoC or some other source. That might not be so easy.

-


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 19:58:54


Post by: whembly


While figuring out how to model The Vrak, I think I'm in the camp of saving up some scratch the next few months and just get the FW models.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 20:03:22


Post by: vladicov


I'm still interested in the brimstone/razorwing/conscript thing. Reece hinted at there being an obvious answer that isn't GW wants to sell you lots of small models.

The fact that it could be changed in the codex that's admittedly like 3-4months away minimum when they adjusted the exalted flamers points right now seems weird. That doesn't seem like a good answer. To me the answer seems to be "working as intended"


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 20:23:46


Post by: Cephalobeard


vladicov wrote:
I'm still interested in the brimstone/razorwing/conscript thing. Reece hinted at there being an obvious answer that isn't GW wants to sell you lots of small models.

The fact that it could be changed in the codex that's admittedly like 3-4months away minimum when they adjusted the exalted flamers points right now seems weird. That doesn't seem like a good answer. To me the answer seems to be "working as intended"


You're gonna have to forgive me, but I haven't seen anything about the "adjusted points" on the exalted flamer.

Any source on that?

Otherwise, I am almost certain "split" and horrors are going to be massively changed in the codex, when it drops.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 20:46:25


Post by: Galef


I think he's confusing the points changes for Exalted Sorcerers, which is in the FAQ. Exalted Flamers didn't get a points change.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 20:47:15


Post by: Rydria


How do people rank our mega daemons ? Aetaos is clearly the most powerful but he is also the most expensive. Personally i think Magnus and Zerak may slightly edge out over aetaos due to being significantly less expensive. Angrath I'd probbly rate as the worst he just doesn't seem that good, scabby I've heard mixed things about some say he is really good being slightly leas tanky than aetaos due to DR while others say he is too slow to contribute.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 22:05:49


Post by: vladicov


 Cephalobeard wrote:
vladicov wrote:
I'm still interested in the brimstone/razorwing/conscript thing. Reece hinted at there being an obvious answer that isn't GW wants to sell you lots of small models.

The fact that it could be changed in the codex that's admittedly like 3-4months away minimum when they adjusted the exalted flamers points right now seems weird. That doesn't seem like a good answer. To me the answer seems to be "working as intended"


You're gonna have to forgive me, but I haven't seen anything about the "adjusted points" on the exalted flamer.

Any source on that?

Otherwise, I am almost certain "split" and horrors are going to be massively changed in the codex, when it drops.


Ah, my bad. Post after yours had it, the change is for the exalted sorcerers points. Your point still makes sense too me. If horrors were gonna stay the same in the codex, they would just adjust points now. As they didn't adjust the points now i can see it being as you said, because they are gonna redo the whole horror unit(s) in the codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Rydria wrote:
How do people rank our mega daemons ? Aetaos is clearly the most powerful but he is also the most expensive. Personally i think Magnus and Zerak may slightly edge out over aetaos due to being significantly less expensive. Angrath I'd probbly rate as the worst he just doesn't seem that good, scabby I've heard mixed things about some say he is really good being slightly leas tanky than aetaos due to DR while others say he is too slow to contribute.


Guess your source on this is the recent FtN podcast discussing these beasts. They mentioned one of the top former KDK players running Angrath in a tournament list last weekend and his albeit biased opinion was that he is awesome. I do think Angrath looks pretty solid compared to the rest of the stuff in the game like knights, bloodthirsters etc. If I compare the exalted deamons to eachother, I feel Aetaos is the standout best, but that's largely cause he can be shielded with a changeling.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 22:25:33


Post by: Rydria


vladicov wrote:

Guess your source on this is the recent FtN podcast discussing these beasts. They mentioned one of the top former KDK players running Angrath in a tournament list last weekend and his albeit biased opinion was that he is awesome. I do think Angrath looks pretty solid compared to the rest of the stuff in the game like knights, bloodthirsters etc. If I compare the exalted deamons to eachother, I feel Aetaos is the standout best, but that's largely cause he can be shielded with a changeling.


I don't watch podcasts, I was just curious I think Angrath is really bad considering he is the same cost as Aetaos with worse overall dps, hell i'd claim he is inferior than Zerak since she is 240 pts cheaper has a way better weapon and isn't even that much less durable she is actually more durable once she hits CC vs actual dangerous weapons due to dance of blades boosting her invul to 3+.

What makes Angrath superior to two regular bloodthisters ? (who I believe are inferior to khorne daemon princes mathematically)


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 23:20:09


Post by: Azoqu


In my personal opinion, nothing. Angrath also has the problem of being able to be locked in combat by hordes of men that he'll never get through because he doesn't have a rule to run from combat and charge another. Aeteos can at least use his staff to shoot things outside of the melee he is in, and while being in melee he should be safe from being shot at by the big guns and killing whatever he is fighting.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/07 23:51:06


Post by: whembly


...just laughed my ass off with this idea...

Spoiler:
Supreme Command +3 CP
-Aetaos
-Magnus
-Brass Scorpion

Battalion +3 CP
-Changeling
-TzHerald+staff
-3x (9 brimmies, 1 blue)

1992 pts, +6 CP

Only 8 drops! Might be the best chance that Demons going first!

Would suck at maximized MSU armies though...





Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/08 02:23:38


Post by: labmouse42


 whembly wrote:
...just laughed my ass off with this idea...
It will also hurt in objective based games too.
I just played a guy with a model count of 18 in a 2k game. He killed 80% of my crap, I killed everything but 2 of his models. He could not win the game because I just had to many daemons left on the board.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/08 04:15:27


Post by: Arachnofiend


Exalted Flamers make me mad. Every time I field them they do incredibly well and they fill the void of "cheap lascannon" perfectly, but this is supposed to be a Thousand Sons army dangit why can't I efficiently kill tanks without dipping into daemons


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/08 09:59:55


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


 whembly wrote:
...just laughed my ass off with this idea...

Spoiler:
Supreme Command +3 CP
-Aetaos
-Magnus
-Brass Scorpion

Battalion +3 CP
-Changeling
-TzHerald+staff
-3x (9 brimmies, 1 blue)

1992 pts, +6 CP

Only 8 drops! Might be the best chance that Demons going first!

Would suck at maximized MSU armies though...





Sorry to burst your bubble, but a Supreme Command requires 3 HQs and only gives +1 CP


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/08 11:40:30


Post by: Cephalobeard


He meant the LoW detachment. It gives 3 CP and allows 3 LoW.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/08 14:17:09


Post by: rvd1ofakind


1500 RAW rules list:

Magnus
Renegade Knight 2x avenger&flamer, stubber, stormspear rockets
Zarakynel
16 brims

For a total of 3+3-1=5 CP
Seems good? :p


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/08 14:56:46


Post by: whembly


 Cephalobeard wrote:
He meant the LoW detachment. It gives 3 CP and allows 3 LoW.

Yup, that's what I meant.

Also, in my last game I forgot Magnus' "gaze" (smite being d6 and 2d6 on manifest of 10+) And he still took out 2.5 stormravens all by himself!


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/08 15:20:56


Post by: Cephalobeard


Arachnofiend wrote:
Exalted Flamers make me mad. Every time I field them they do incredibly well and they fill the void of "cheap lascannon" perfectly, but this is supposed to be a Thousand Sons army dangit why can't I efficiently kill tanks without dipping into daemons


They're great. I use mine to handle hordes. The pistol is no joke.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/08 16:28:41


Post by: Eldenfirefly


I am keen to know what Chaos Daemons can bring to the table to complement CSM armies. Since we all share the chaos tag, we can form an army together.

So, if I have a mind to play a mixed CD and CSM army, what's the best way the complement each other's strengths and weaknesses?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 02:37:23


Post by: anticitizen013


Eldenfirefly wrote:
I am keen to know what Chaos Daemons can bring to the table to complement CSM armies. Since we all share the chaos tag, we can form an army together.

So, if I have a mind to play a mixed CD and CSM army, what's the best way the complement each other's strengths and weaknesses?

Nurglings are pretty awesome at denying ground/preventing first turn charges on things that matter. I am including some in my Khorne army but I'll be modelling them as burning skulls ala DOOM.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 02:52:48


Post by: labmouse42


 anticitizen013 wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
I am keen to know what Chaos Daemons can bring to the table to complement CSM armies. Since we all share the chaos tag, we can form an army together.

So, if I have a mind to play a mixed CD and CSM army, what's the best way the complement each other's strengths and weaknesses?

Nurglings are pretty awesome at denying ground/preventing first turn charges on things that matter. I am including some in my Khorne army but I'll be modelling them as burning skulls ala DOOM.
You can also use them to block scions.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 04:50:16


Post by: whembly


 labmouse42 wrote:
 anticitizen013 wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
I am keen to know what Chaos Daemons can bring to the table to complement CSM armies. Since we all share the chaos tag, we can form an army together.

So, if I have a mind to play a mixed CD and CSM army, what's the best way the complement each other's strengths and weaknesses?

Nurglings are pretty awesome at denying ground/preventing first turn charges on things that matter. I am including some in my Khorne army but I'll be modelling them as burning skulls ala DOOM.
You can also use them to block scions.

What's the big dealio over scions? In my meta, I've never played nor seen them...


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 06:10:40


Post by: astro_nomicon


Their command squads are stupid cheap for deepstriking 4 plasma guns that hit on 3s.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 06:16:27


Post by: luke1705


The FW bird in the pic from a page ago is also using the LOC wings, not his actual wings.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 08:19:56


Post by: arinnoor


 Cephalobeard wrote:
FLG gave out the ominous "I'm sure you can put two and two together as to why," regarding Brimstone horrors not being "addressed" in the FAQ.

I recognize my bias about my own army, but I genuinely wonder what people think the solution to horrors is, considering there's a very simple reason as to why no one uses the 240pt full split unit.


Can someone provide me a link to this FLG statement?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 12:13:48


Post by: Cephalobeard


Faced off against a large zerker/rhino rush yesterday.

I tabled them on turn 3, crippled it by turn 2. Exalted Flamers and Smite shreds more elite infantry.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 12:36:20


Post by: labmouse42


 whembly wrote:
What's the big dealio over scions? In my meta, I've never played nor seen them...
If you have a greater daemon sitting out there by himeself, your opponent can drop a squad of PGs 9" away to double tap him. It's a very strong alpha strike army.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 16:01:58


Post by: anticitizen013


 labmouse42 wrote:
 anticitizen013 wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
I am keen to know what Chaos Daemons can bring to the table to complement CSM armies. Since we all share the chaos tag, we can form an army together.

So, if I have a mind to play a mixed CD and CSM army, what's the best way the complement each other's strengths and weaknesses?

Nurglings are pretty awesome at denying ground/preventing first turn charges on things that matter. I am including some in my Khorne army but I'll be modelling them as burning skulls ala DOOM.
You can also use them to block scions.

Yeah true, any deep striking forces. Most people wont want to waste their powerful alpha strike on 20ppm nurglings when there are much more delicious targets around. Unless of course it opens up another tactical route but that's not the point


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 16:41:54


Post by: whembly


 labmouse42 wrote:
 whembly wrote:
What's the big dealio over scions? In my meta, I've never played nor seen them...
If you have a greater daemon sitting out there by himeself, your opponent can drop a squad of PGs 9" away to double tap him. It's a very strong alpha strike army.

Oh. Ew... that sounds effective.

Best to try to bubble wrapper your big boppers to at least force them more than double-tap ranger... till turn four at least.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 17:21:29


Post by: Sokhar


Forgeworld lost their damn minds. They just released a FAQ/errata for Chaos that gives Giant Chaos Spawn the daemonic allegiance ability. 75 points for a 10 wound, regenerating monster with 4++ and -1 to hit from The Changeling? Insanity!

And they nerfed the Soulburner Petard by doubling its point cost.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 17:22:23


Post by: casdark


 Cephalobeard wrote:
vladicov wrote:
I'm still interested in the brimstone/razorwing/conscript thing. Reece hinted at there being an obvious answer that isn't GW wants to sell you lots of small models.

The fact that it could be changed in the codex that's admittedly like 3-4months away minimum when they adjusted the exalted flamers points right now seems weird. That doesn't seem like a good answer. To me the answer seems to be "working as intended"


You're gonna have to forgive me, but I haven't seen anything about the "adjusted points" on the exalted flamer.

Any source on that?

Otherwise, I am almost certain "split" and horrors are going to be massively changed in the codex, when it drops.


How will be the horrors in the codex? (Do you know some rumours?)


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 17:42:10


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Sokhar wrote:
Forgeworld lost their damn minds. They just released a FAQ/errata for Chaos that gives Giant Chaos Spawn the daemonic allegiance ability. 75 points for a 10 wound, regenerating monster with 4++ and -1 to hit from The Changeling? Insanity!

And they nerfed the Soulburner Petard by doubling its point cost.


Yeah.. big Nerf making the scorpion immune to warptime. Soulburners now.. more appropriate? Ish.
No daemon knight booo.

But giant spawn are awesomesauce.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 18:01:42


Post by: Cephalobeard


Sokhar wrote:
Forgeworld lost their damn minds. They just released a FAQ/errata for Chaos that gives Giant Chaos Spawn the daemonic allegiance ability. 75 points for a 10 wound, regenerating monster with 4++ and -1 to hit from The Changeling? Insanity!

And they nerfed the Soulburner Petard by doubling its point cost.


Soul burners needed to be nerfed. Unsure how I feel about Chaos Spawn still, though. I've found having 22 characters outclasses having any number of bugger threats, simply because they can't be removed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
casdark wrote:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
vladicov wrote:
I'm still interested in the brimstone/razorwing/conscript thing. Reece hinted at there being an obvious answer that isn't GW wants to sell you lots of small models.

The fact that it could be changed in the codex that's admittedly like 3-4months away minimum when they adjusted the exalted flamers points right now seems weird. That doesn't seem like a good answer. To me the answer seems to be "working as intended"


You're gonna have to forgive me, but I haven't seen anything about the "adjusted points" on the exalted flamer.

Any source on that?

Otherwise, I am almost certain "split" and horrors are going to be massively changed in the codex, when it drops.


How will be the horrors in the codex? (Do you know some rumours?)


I have zero rumors. However, based on -literally no one- using pink horrors in matched play, and everyone else whining Brimstone's are too cheap, I am just guessing something will change.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 18:05:33


Post by: casdark


 Cephalobeard wrote:
 whembly wrote:
Had another game against the current top dawg tourny list of 5 stormravens... Lasted until turn 4 before I called it. Against a list like this, your best bet in first turn, is to move your big hitters (magnus, DP, etc...) as far in the back is you can, with the changling and rest of army (brimmies) create a buffer zone to prevent the 2-dice melta-take the highest rolls.

Three things...

1) The Changeling is the most Auto-include HQ I've ever seen... that -1 to hit is simply golden, especially being bottom of 1st turn.

2) Magnus is quite possibly the best all-round monster for his points... I think 415 is an absolute steal.

3) Exalted Flamers performed really well... anyone has experience spamming these guys? Seems like a great distraction/assassination unit to deepstrike in enemy backline or gang up on a particular target.

I'm thinking about fielding Aetaos'rau'keres... but, I can't find his model. Is it this?
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-EU/Lord-of-Change-Greater-Daemon-of-Tzeentch

Seems weird that I cannot find the named deamon on FW... O.o

Anyhoo, if that's the case, would it be kosher for me to simply use the new LoC/Fatey model as proxy for Aetaos? Seems big enough...


I use 12 Exalted Flamers in my list. Yes, it works exactly as horrifyingly well as you'd expect.

Second, absolutely not. Aetaos is supposed to be enormous. I use an Archaon for mine.


How can I create my Aetaos or Zarakyel? I have to buy FW models?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 18:39:47


Post by: Cephalobeard


I'm converting an Archaon. They're basically the same size.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 19:44:37


Post by: jy2


Check out my latest Tzeentch battle report for what I think a competitive Daemon list is. It's mainly Daemons + Magnus.


2K Competitive - Jy2's Brimming With Horror Tzeentch Army vs Flyer-spam Orks w/Giant Squiggoth!




Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 19:56:41


Post by: Cephalobeard


I mean, that's definitely the kind of list that is going to get Brimstone's giving everyone a sour taste in their mouth. Calling it a Daemon list is nearly disingenuous, it's a Brimstone horror army. Lol


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 20:01:58


Post by: jy2


I prefer to call it a Tzeentch list as Magnus is not truly a Daemon, at least not when determining the faction of the a detachment.



Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 20:21:23


Post by: Cephalobeard


Call it how you will, I suppose. This type of list and Conscripts spam are about the "easiest" thing you can do right now. I'm sure you'll win games, but it won't be you winning them, it will be the bucket of 4++ models you dropped on the table. If you're content with that, enjoy the list.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 20:35:06


Post by: jy2


 Cephalobeard wrote:
Call it how you will, I suppose. This type of list and Conscripts spam are about the "easiest" thing you can do right now. I'm sure you'll win games, but it won't be you winning them, it will be the bucket of 4++ models you dropped on the table. If you're content with that, enjoy the list.


It's the sad truth, but you will see these types of lists in tournament play - brimstone-spam, razorflock, Tau gun drones, conscripts, the Green Tide, etc.

Whether I win with my lists or not is not important. What is important is informing/educating the 40K masses about what types of lists one may expect in these environments and how they may perform. Hence the reason why my battle reports tend to focus more on the competitive side of gaming.



Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/09 22:40:33


Post by: labmouse42


 whembly wrote:
Best to try to bubble wrapper your big boppers to at least force them more than double-tap ranger... till turn four at least.
That's why God made Nurglings! Well, at least Nurgle made them....
Since they can infiltrate, you can put them out in the middle of the board doing great denial of deep striking.

Another great unit is 30 plague bearers. Their value is more than is shown on paper. I use one squad to sit on 1-2 objectives in my backfield. That also prevents me from having deep strikers attack me from behind.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 12:02:22


Post by: Gumbalina


 Cryonicleech wrote:
How is everyone finding Plague Drones this edition? Should I just be fielding them naked?


I've found them abit of a mixed bag unit. They can move pretty quick with an instrument as turn 2 they can tie stuff up. The biggest down side to them now is that their is alot more multi wound weapons and the changes to the core rules mean they die fairly quickly. Best use for them I know of is units of 3 and run them into things and tie them up while you get into position for smiting and as potential character hunters as with damage 2 they can make short work of certain support characters that can cause problems like comissars and psykers


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 14:17:38


Post by: Cephalobeard


I apparently chose the worst ebay vendor to buy an Archaon from -- I have a tournament at the end of this month and will likely only receive the model in time to do 1 Practice game at best with him.

Curious if I think I can handle running the event with him, or sticking with my current Exalted Flamer spam list, instead.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 16:28:16


Post by: Galef


 Cephalobeard wrote:
I apparently chose the worst ebay vendor to buy an Archaon from -- I have a tournament at the end of this month and will likely only receive the model in time to do 1 Practice game at best with him.

Curious if I think I can handle running the event with him, or sticking with my current Exalted Flamer spam list, instead.

Why would you need the model for a practice game? Just ask your opponent if a proxy will do and slap a LoC or similar model on the table

Could you expand a bit more on how E-Flamer spam works? 70ppm seems a bit steep for only hitting on 4+. And the auto-hit option can be done better with regular Flamers
Is it just the versatility of having both firing modes and being a Character that makes it work?

-


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 16:36:32


Post by: jy2


There are times when Flamers make more sense to bring than Exalted Flamers, but this is why you should take Exalted Flamers over Flamers:

1. Cheaper. Gives you more pointage to take other units.

2. More flexibility. Flamers are anti-infantry only. Exalted flamers are both anti-infantry and anti-elite units with their D3 semi-lascannon shots

3. You can target Flamers with normal enemy shooting. You can't with Exalted Flamers.



Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 16:40:53


Post by: Arachnofiend


Exalted Flamers and other many-small-characters lists can be annoying to an opponent because their big guns have to only target one of them. You can expect a very large amount of wasted shots.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 16:51:05


Post by: jy2


Arachnofiend wrote:
Exalted Flamers and other many-small-characters lists can be annoying to an opponent because their big guns have to only target one of them. You can expect a very large amount of wasted shots.

I'm not seeing how it is wasting shots. With 4+ wounds, even 1 melta/lascannon cannot reliably kill it. Besides, units can split fire these days. Fire all your bolters into the troops and the melta into the character (assuming you can). If your big gun isn't shooting at a big Daemon, than all shots are wasted anyways because they will be firing at cheap, screening troop units instead.



Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 17:19:11


Post by: Cephalobeard


Exalted Flamers are also WS/BS 3+. For 70PPM It's a character, offers a terrific mini-las cannon, and can handle hordes of models through mutliples of them via the pistol shot.

My list runs over 20 Characters and then plenty of horrors. You cannot target anything in my list without handling those first.

As for why I won't use a LoC for practice, I'd rather wait until I have the appropriate scale so my opinion of the model isn't based on experiences with a poor proxy, at best.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
 jy2 wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Exalted Flamers and other many-small-characters lists can be annoying to an opponent because their big guns have to only target one of them. You can expect a very large amount of wasted shots.

I'm not seeing how it is wasting shots. With 4+ wounds, even 1 melta/lascannon cannot reliably kill it. Besides, units can split fire these days. Fire all your bolters into the troops and the melta into the character (assuming you can). If your big gun isn't shooting at a big Daemon, than all shots are wasted anyways because they will be firing at cheap, screening troop units instead.



"Wasted shots" in that models are forced to shoot into one at a time, I imagine.

If I have 11 Exalted flamers, a Knight can only shoot ONE Flamer until the others are viable targets, I imagine is what they meant.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 17:25:11


Post by: Arachnofiend


Yes, that's what I meant exactly. If the Knight manages to kill one Exalted Flamer with the gatling cannon the rest of his guns go to waste because he's not allowed to shoot them at any of the other EF's.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 17:27:24


Post by: Cephalobeard


Exactly. Against 4 Knights it will take 3 turns of shooting, minimum, before you can shoot any target in my army other than a horror/exalted flamer if I position them appropriately. Allowing me to smite, yadda yadda, in the meantime.

This is obviously an "in a vacuum" scenario, but that is a benefit of Exalted over normal flamers.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 17:48:01


Post by: blackmage


what about play a list without any big bird, like Magnus and Aetaos? kind of Dp's/belakor and bunch of exalted flamers, you sure know in ur experience that way you set close to 0 the effect of heavy weapons, i was also curious how you think an Ik can fit that list, tysm.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 18:02:41


Post by: Cephalobeard


My main, current list, doesn't use any large characters. It's quite effective and I've not lost a game in my last 4 games with it.

8th, without codexes, is somewhat polarizing in that the choices seem to weigh heavily on either a.) spamming small characters or b.) utilizing few, very large models.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 18:21:44


Post by: labmouse42


 Cryonicleech wrote:
How is everyone finding Plague Drones this edition? Should I just be fielding them naked?
I've had good luck with my plague drones. It took me a few games to learn where they are good, and now I use them in nearly every list.

The Good
* Plague drones are very good at rapid assaults. I have yet to fail to get a turn 1-2 charge in with them.
* Plague drones combine very well with a Nurgle DP to give them rerolling of 1s. Being STR 4 with poisoned weapons, they wound often - but have a hard time hitting.
* Plague drones are very good at blocking in targets in assault. Since they have such large bases, 7 of them can encircle most vehicles locking them in CC for much of the game.
Note : This also works against knights, since they are not infantry. Titantic feet are an issue for long term use here.
(2/3 to hit) * (2/3 to wound) * (2/3 failed save) * (2/3 failed FNP) * 2 wounds * 12 attacks = 4.74 wounds per round (which is around 1 drone, since extra wounds won't roll over)
* The fly keyword helps greatly here too. You can move over enemy models during the charge move, so you can easily wrap around models.
* The banner gives you a good bang for your buck on these guys, since you get a 44 points model back
* Each drone has 5 effective attacks. 4 of those attacks are D2. This is not bad. I've used them to assault and kill more than 1 flyer. The sheet volume of attacks helps a lot. I've used them to plow into conscript blobs before with good success.
* Virulent Blessing combines very well with drones, due to those reroll-to wounds. Last weekend I had a squad of 7 of them with a prince casting Virulent Blessing on the unit charge some robots. He had to make 6 saves of D2, and 8 saves at D3. It was not a good day for the robots.
* They have assault guns. They can also overwatch with them. I've disengaged with them to allow my GUO to assault, then shot up some backfield units with their guns.

The Bad
* They are not great against models that do multiple wounds in assault during the fight phase. Magnus is just bad news for drones.
* They are not great against MEQ. No AP on the saves means they are best vs GEQ or vehicles. (Vehicles due to the D2 and rerolling to wounds)
* They have a very large footprint on the board. This can be good or bad, depending on your view.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 18:41:49


Post by: blackmage


 Cephalobeard wrote:
My main, current list, doesn't use any large characters. It's quite effective and I've not lost a game in my last 4 games with it.

8th, without codexes, is somewhat polarizing in that the choices seem to weigh heavily on either a.) spamming small characters or b.) utilizing few, very large models.

the list with Ik plays anyway 14 characters, 2 dp's 4 heralds changeling and 7 exalted, the styrix Ik seems durable and with nice weapons, not counting 120 brimstones.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 19:06:11


Post by: Talamare


Has anyone considered doing a Tzeentch Brigade at 2000?

Brigade 1300~1400 points +9 CP
Herald x3
Exalted Flamer x3
Horrors x12
Screamers x3
Burning Chariot x3

12 Squads of Horrors, and gives you plenty of support.

Next you do 2 more Battalions for 304 points each.
Herald x2
Horrors x6

That puts us as about 2000, potentially another Herald here or there.
24 squads of Horrors, that's 24 * 1/3 * 2 = 16 Mortal Wounds
7 Heralds, that's 7 * ((6/12 * 2)+(2/12 * 3.5)) = 11 Mortal Wounds

Not to mention the exact stuff that the Flamers, Screamers, and Burning Chariots will do.
Oh and... the most important part... 18 CP


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 19:07:02


Post by: Cephalobeard


I'm not comfortable buying that many horrors, as it stands. I have a very comfortable guy feeling they're either going to nerf them into the ground or change how horrors either interact or are fielded.


For now I will under-deploy and summon my dead models. Same result, just means someone doesn't move every now and then, while I don't pay a couple hundred bucks for more brimstone models.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
 Talamare wrote:
Has anyone considered doing a Tzeentch Brigade at 2000?

Brigade 1300~1400 points +9 CP
Herald x3
Exalted Flamer x3
Horrors x12
Screamers x3
Burning Chariot x3

12 Squads of Horrors, and gives you plenty of support.

Next you do 2 more Battalions for 304 points each.
Herald x2
Horrors x6

That puts us as about 2000, potentially another Herald here or there.
24 squads of Horrors, that's 24 * 1/3 * 2 = 16 Mortal Wounds
7 Heralds, that's 7 * ((6/12 * 2)+(2/12 * 3.5)) = 11 Mortal Wounds

Not to mention the exact stuff that the Flamers, Screamers, and Burning Chariots will do.
Oh and... the most important part... 18 CP


I can tell you right now that Screamers are absolute garbage. Do not bother.

While CP is helpful, that much is pointless. You will rarely ever need more than 10. You can jam screamers and chariots, but they die pretty quickly.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 19:19:23


Post by: Talamare


 Cephalobeard wrote:

I can tell you right now that Screamers are absolute garbage. Do not bother.

While CP is helpful, that much is pointless. You will rarely ever need more than 10. You can jam screamers and chariots, but they die pretty quickly.

If you're playing Maelstrom you can burn them to get Objective that you can complete.
With that alone you might burn 8-10 CP.

Screamers might be garbage at killing stuff, but they are 16" Move and get a minor bonus when they Advance, making it feel less painful when you're only really using them for speeding around to grab objectives.
At worst you might just seem them as a minor tax, or you can replace them with something else. -shrugs-


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 19:21:13


Post by: Cephalobeard


 Talamare wrote:
 Cephalobeard wrote:

I can tell you right now that Screamers are absolute garbage. Do not bother.

While CP is helpful, that much is pointless. You will rarely ever need more than 10. You can jam screamers and chariots, but they die pretty quickly.

If you're playing Maelstrom you can burn them to get Objective that you can complete.
With that alone you might burn 8-10 CP.

Screamers might be garbage at killing stuff, but they are 16" Move and get a minor bonus when they Advance, making it feel less painful when you're only really using them for speeding around to grab objectives.
At worst you might just seem them as a minor tax, or you can replace them with something else. -shrugs-


93 or however may point units, in triplicate, aren't really a viable tax, though. Use furies if you're just having a tax. I suppose your comment of Maelstrom is valid, though? I'm seeing mostly Eternal War from a competitive standpoint, so that's where my perspective lies.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 23:01:40


Post by: DireTribe


Screamers

So everyone is saying they are garbage. I'm not sure I understand why. I mean back when they were unkillable with a 2++ they were pretty rocking. I get it that they've lost that and that many armies are now pumping out good volumes of fire and/or multi damage shots and the screamers have a big old target painted on their head (fins?)

But they still pack a fair punch with 2 standard attacks plus a lampreys bite. A big squad near a herald for +1S who can also have a go at buffing them them with the easiest to cast tzeentch spell doesn't strike me as complete garbage. A DP nearby (who is using them as an expensive screen) also dishes out re-roll 1's to maximise their damage.

I appreciate they may not be the best and that they have a hefty price tag but I think garbage is a bit strong.

Has anyone had any positive experiences with them?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/10 23:13:23


Post by: Cephalobeard


They're too expensive for 2 wound, t4 models only hitting on 4+.

I've played two games, once with 3 3 man squads, one with 3 nine man squads. Literally both times they folded like paper.



Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 09:32:32


Post by: ochobits


Agree on the Screammers not being quite useful on this index, which is a pity since I truly love the models. Let's see if they get some love in the future.

On another vein, I've been looking for some synergies between Tzeentch Daemons and CSM to add some CC dakka to my list. Warptalons seem the best option since they have the DAEMON keyword, but... could we take a look at possesed too?

Everybody is complaining about possesed's statline, price and random attack value, but I see a great opportunity getting them into the Tzeentch character's bubbles. I run Be'Lakor, the Changeling and several Heralds of Tzeentch. That would give possesed -1 to be hit, +1 ST (ST6 -2AP doens't look bad to me), and re-rolling 1's thanks to Be'Lakor aura. The Changeling or the Heralds of Tzeentch could cast Boon of change on them for a potential extra attack, ST7 or T5. Assuming an average on 2 attacks per turn on the 1D3 that could be hilarius if you are lucky with your dice rolls.

Now, I could be influenced by the fact that I'm really looking forward to do some weird convertions (Extra arms! Tentacles!) but... do they look that bad?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 10:38:24


Post by: blackmage


does an IK fit into a list like Cephalobeard (or kind of) instead of Magnus for example? ty for answers


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 11:05:26


Post by: Cephalobeard


2-3 Renegade Knights and Magnus is gross powerful eight now. I'd say Magnus outclasses a Knight, damage wise? You can certainly use both, many people are doing so.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 11:30:16


Post by: blackmage


a kind like

supreme command
2 tz herald with staff
changeling
magnus

battalion
2 tz herald with staff
5x20 horrors (19 brim and 1 blue)
10 horrors 9 brim 1 blue
6 exalted

Low
styrix Ik hekaton siege claw


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 11:57:04


Post by: Cephalobeard


I would almost always put a Herald on a disc or a chariot-- the movement combined with the ability to advance + cast smite is very powerful.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 12:07:09


Post by: blackmage


 Cephalobeard wrote:
I would almost always put a Herald on a disc or a chariot-- the movement combined with the ability to advance + cast smite is very powerful.

but usually heralds stay hidden behind horrors and they cant match herald on disk movement+advance (15" average), i suppose disk can be useful for last turn run on objectives.btw i would like do that but i need 84 extra points. maybe take our 1 exalted?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 12:16:31


Post by: Cephalobeard


Certainly could. In my experience the movement is not to be understated. If you have the models you can definitely try it how you have it, though.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 12:29:31


Post by: blackmage


i have anything of demons i can do pratically any list, btw you already used that specific kind of list in 8th so i was asking your experience about, i played them a lot in 7th edition.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 12:59:30


Post by: Galef


I agree about putting the Tzeralds on discs or chariots.
They do no have to be behind the Horrors to not be the closest
If you are shoving Magnus down the enemies throat, he will be the closest and even Tzeralds that are in front of Horrors cannot be targeted
You don't even have to move them faster than the horrors, but it's far better to have the option


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 13:38:32


Post by: sfshilo


I've been running a mono-khorne list lately that seems to be doing ok. It's more fluff then WAAC but it's fun to play.

Battalion:
Blood Throne
Fury Thirster

4x Bloodletters with icon and instrument

7 flesh hounds

Soul Grinder with claw

Spearhead:
Herald of Khorne
3x skull cannons
Maulerfiend with magma cutters.

Learning to play bloodletters has been fun. They are extremely fast with instruments and throw in the BT and Warlord herald with the leadership bubble and they hit like a truck. S6 on the charge with double damage on sixes is nothing to sneeze at.

The maulerfield and thirster really soak up alot of incoming fire allowing the letters to get in and do their thing.

Only issues I've been having are the Deathwatch 3++/hammers assault lists as they negate everything I'm bringing to the table. But that's 8th.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 16:15:54


Post by: jy2


 blackmage wrote:
a kind like

supreme command
2 tz herald with staff
changeling
magnus

battalion
2 tz herald with staff
5x20 horrors (19 brim and 1 blue)
10 horrors 9 brim 1 blue
6 exalted

Low
styrix Ik hekaton siege claw

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I would almost always put a Herald on a disc or a chariot-- the movement combined with the ability to advance + cast smite is very powerful.

Too me, more units > upgrades. If you have enough points, get another Herald instead. If not, then you can go for upgrades like a disc or chariot. The exception is the Staff of Change, which is a must-take upgrade for my Tzeentch Heralds.




Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 16:22:02


Post by: Cephalobeard


Giving a Tzeentch herald Fly by nature of the Disc is easily worth the 18 or however many rough points. I'd rather have 7-8 Disc Heralds than 8-9 Foot heralds.

However, yes, Staff is absolutely necessary on every herald.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 16:50:34


Post by: jy2


Depends if you want to run true MSU or not. If you want to maximize damage potential, then I'd go with foot. If you want a little more flexibility, the Disc or Chariot would be fine. If I were to run them with Discs, I may do 1 out of 3 with Disc and the other 2 on foot. Then again, I tend more to optimize my lists for damage capacity.



Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 16:54:08


Post by: Cephalobeard


I suppose. Losing the movement, flexibility and ability to move around, over and through terrain feels much more worthwhile than a single extra smite. I will concede that you certainly afford slightly more damage on foot, I just don't know if I think 2-6 more potential wounds outweights the benefit.

Either have their merits and deserve to be weighed by the individual, to suit their playstyle.

The joy of Daemons.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 17:24:41


Post by: DarkBlack


 jy2 wrote:
Depends if you want to run true MSU or not. If you want to maximize damage potential, then I'd go with foot. If you want a little more flexibility, the Disc or Chariot would be fine. If I were to run them with Discs, I may do 1 out of 3 with Disc and the other 2 on foot. Then again, I tend more to optimize my lists for damage capacity.



There is more to it than the amount of damage you can do. Your opponent's army is more than just a block of wounds. What you damage and where you offer a threat from matters too.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 20:45:25


Post by: jy2


 DarkBlack wrote:
 jy2 wrote:
Depends if you want to run true MSU or not. If you want to maximize damage potential, then I'd go with foot. If you want a little more flexibility, the Disc or Chariot would be fine. If I were to run them with Discs, I may do 1 out of 3 with Disc and the other 2 on foot. Then again, I tend more to optimize my lists for damage capacity.



There is more to it than the amount of damage you can do. Your opponent's army is more than just a block of wounds. What you damage and where you offer a threat from matters too.

Like I said, it's a matter of flexibility vs raw damage output. There is no right or wrong way to run it. It's a matter of preference. If you like the flexibility of mobile Heralds, then by all means put them all on Discs. However, I find that the offense of a pure Tzeentch list isn't that great, especially when you will come up against these types of lists in competitive play:

Spoiler:


Therefore, I tend to go more on the raw firepower side of it.

I think that for most players, the answer is more in the middle. A mix of Tzeentch Heralds and foot Heralds in a Tzeentch is a good, balanced way to run things.




Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 21:54:35


Post by: Cephalobeard


I'm willing to take your words to heart, and it's made me think more over the last few hours.

Originally, I have been running a list using:

12 Exalted Flamers
8 Disc Heralds (Staff)
Changeling
6x 1 Blue, 9 Brim with summoning points in reserves


I'm now posturing the idea of:

10 Exalted Flamers
8 Disc Heralds (Staff)
2 Foot Herald's (Staff)
Changeling
6x 1 Blue 9 Brim

This offers essentially the same targets, but affords me two additional smite's as opposed to two Las shots.

I'm unsure how I feel about the difference, but believe it is worth fiddling with.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 22:58:12


Post by: Talamare


 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm willing to take your words to heart, and it's made me think more over the last few hours.

Originally, I have been running a list using:

12 Exalted Flamers
8 Disc Heralds (Staff)
Changeling
6x 1 Blue, 9 Brim with summoning points in reserves


I'm now posturing the idea of:

10 Exalted Flamers
8 Disc Heralds (Staff)
2 Foot Herald's (Staff)
Changeling
6x 1 Blue 9 Brim

This offers essentially the same targets, but affords me two additional smite's as opposed to two Las shots.

I'm unsure how I feel about the difference, but believe it is worth fiddling with.

I think you missed what he was saying...
He was saying that for the price of 4 Discs (416), you can bring 5 Foots (415).
So to change your list to what he is suggesting, as in having a balanced...

Then your second list should have been
12 Exalted Flamers
4 Disc Heralds (Staff)
5 Foot Heralds (Staff)
Changeling
6x 1 Blue, 9 Brim with summoning points in reserves


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/11 23:51:30


Post by: Cephalobeard


I didn't miss it. I just didn't want LESS Disc Heralds. I'm opting to try and use foot Herald's to see how I feel; giving the benefit of a doubt that they're worthwhile, an opinion I don't immediately agree with.

I was merely acknowleding the unit and that they may have their place.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/12 00:00:26


Post by: WhiteWolf01


in the few games I have played I have come to the conclusion that decimators w/petards are amazing (even with the points increase I still think that).

I havent tried it yet, but it looks good on paper is running 2-3 decimators (if 3 then 1 w/butcher cannons maybe, but the rest with petards), make them all tzeentch, put them with the changeling, and a daemon prince. I have yet to run this all together like that, but in theory it seems very potent like some sort of mortal wound dishing deathstar.

Other things I've found:
Exalted seeker chariots are surprisingly good.

Seekers are good, but die fast. You really need to get that first turn charge off to make them worth it I feel (or have another unit to distract your opponent's fire)

Bloodcrushers are great with a herald. (Still wish they had a 3+ tho)

Herald of khorne on jugg is good, but why doesn't he have an extra base attack like he should? (Pretty sure that one thing lost me a game, lol.)


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/12 18:12:41


Post by: rvd1ofakind


Played this list vs CSM at 1500. Warned him about a cheese list:
Magnus
Renegade Knight 2x avengers, ironstorm
Zarakynel
30 brimstones
He got tabled turn 2 pretty much (had 1 <100 pts HQ left on the table)
Played by RAW. Aka, I got the first turn, killed his knight and a squad of cultists(smite). He deepstruck with his terminators and killed my knight. Then I killed the terminators and the terminator HQs with Magnus and Zarakinel in the following turn. So yeah. RAW and 3 Superheavies make a stupid combo... Guaranteed turn 1, kill all the biggest threats when facing a TAC list, win. "Oh but that's not what they intended" Isn't it? Why do they have a 3 superheavy detachement then...
ITC rules or bust IMO


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/12 18:31:14


Post by: Cephalobeard


My concern regarding ITC and their events is raising after their poll confirmed the banning of 31+ PL Models.

Going to go ahead and shelf the Aetaos plan and continue trying to work with lots of character spam for Daemons.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/12 18:56:58


Post by: blackmage


 Cephalobeard wrote:
My concern regarding ITC and their events is raising after their poll confirmed the banning of 31+ PL Models.

Going to go ahead and shelf the Aetaos plan and continue trying to work with lots of character spam for Daemons.

play Magnus, he's not Aetos of course but still a good beatstick anyway.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/12 18:58:26


Post by: Cephalobeard


Certainly could. As I've mentioned a few times, though, I'm playing 20+ Characters to great success so far, it's proved very powerful.

Once I finally get my Magnus I'll be happy to test with him.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/12 20:07:29


Post by: Darksider


 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Played this list vs CSM at 1500. Warned him about a cheese list:
Magnus
Renegade Knight 2x avengers, ironstorm
Zarakynel
30 brimstones
He got tabled turn 2 pretty much (had 1 <100 pts HQ left on the table)
Played by RAW. Aka, I got the first turn, killed his knight and a squad of cultists(smite). He deepstruck with his terminators and killed my knight. Then I killed the terminators and the terminator HQs with Magnus and Zarakinel in the following turn. So yeah. RAW and 3 Superheavies make a stupid combo... Guaranteed turn 1, kill all the biggest threats when facing a TAC list, win. "Oh but that's not what they intended" Isn't it? Why do they have a 3 superheavy detachement then...
ITC rules or bust IMO


The army reminds me of my own, exept it was only for 1250 Point games and i only had 5 models XD.

Played Magnus + 4x Nurgle DP (3x Swords, 1x Double Talon, all with wings)

Won both my games against Tyranids and Deathwatch with some Inquisition Dudes, tabled both of them on Turn 3.

Tyranids had Double Flyrant with Claws, 19 Gargs, 5 Rippers, 2x Mawloc, Scythed Hierodule
Deathwatch had 4 Killteams (4 Frags, some Shotguns, Thunderhammers, E-Weapons etc), 2x Razorback with Lascan, 3 Crusader and a Malleus Inquisitor in Terminator armour + Artemis

As the games started i didn't thougt i would win them both, (1 mission was relic, the other was secure and control), they had more models and also decent dmg per round.

But Magnus and his Daemonprinces made about 12 Mortalwounds a round and had decent output in melee to kill everything.






Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/12 20:48:55


Post by: jy2


 Cephalobeard wrote:
My concern regarding ITC and their events is raising after their poll confirmed the banning of 31+ PL Models.

Going to go ahead and shelf the Aetaos plan and continue trying to work with lots of character spam for Daemons.

That's a temporary ruling for the BAO only. I suspect that there will be a vote afterwards for the general populace with regards to PL31+ models.



Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/12 22:35:16


Post by: Cephalobeard


Correct. I did not mean to imply it was for everything. However, knowing the vote went the way it did is a safe baseline to say a single $200+ model is not the wisest decision for a few events at best.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/12 23:44:23


Post by: smegma_crunch


How do you guys feel about skull cannons? Are they worth the points compared to forgefiends or defilers? Also not sure about the best way to use them. They can fight in melee...but should they fight in melee?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/13 01:49:00


Post by: Terminal


smegma_crunch wrote:
How do you guys feel about skull cannons? Are they worth the points compared to forgefiends or defilers? Also not sure about the best way to use them. They can fight in melee...but should they fight in melee?


I built one recently, and was able to try it out in a game last weekend.

They are pretty useful as fire support if you have a mostly-daemon army, and don't have the points for bigger heavy support. Almost Helbrute level.

The Skull Cannon was actually pretty bad in combat, in that game. If it doesn't do enough damage on the charge, it can easily get bogged down in subsequent rounds because of its paltry 2 attacks.

But I won't be using it a lot, as I'll be trying out some H. Bolter CSM and Blight Launcher Plague Marines [not to mention the Renegade Knight] as fire support instead.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/13 02:57:20


Post by: rvd1ofakind


Regarding the 31+ PL thing, I think they will move to a "banned units" later.

On another note, I think Magnus is one of the most broken units in the game ATM, he can solo kill a Knight in 1 turn rather reliably.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/13 07:02:56


Post by: JakeSiren


Is it me or does the blue scribes seem like a particularly good counter to Brimstone spam? Get into 12" of multiple units, their test is reduced by 1 (so needing 6's), and if they fail then the scribes automatically casts smite - particularly useful if you fly near a strong enemy with multiple smites built up.

I haven't played against any Psykers yet (damn 'crons), but at under 100 points they don't seem bad.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/13 07:18:11


Post by: CrownAxe


JakeSiren wrote:
Is it me or does the blue scribes seem like a particularly good counter to Brimstone spam? Get into 12" of multiple units, their test is reduced by 1 (so needing 6's), and if they fail then the scribes automatically casts smite - particularly useful if you fly near a strong enemy with multiple smites built up.

I haven't played against any Psykers yet (damn 'crons), but at under 100 points they don't seem bad.
They could just not attempt to smite since it won't cast and they won't lose it permanently


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/13 11:58:11


Post by: Cephalobeard


If only the blue scribes had the option to cast a spell of their choice; they'd be an auto include imo.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/13 20:12:12


Post by: ochobits


JakeSiren wrote:
Is it me or does the blue scribes seem like a particularly good counter to Brimstone spam? Get into 12" of multiple units, their test is reduced by 1 (so needing 6's), and if they fail then the scribes automatically casts smite - particularly useful if you fly near a strong enemy with multiple smites built up.

I haven't played against any Psykers yet (damn 'crons), but at under 100 points they don't seem bad.


It is not a bad idea, actually. You should still deal with tons of bodies but at least you either prevent your opponent to cast Smite or you counter it back 5 of 6 times. My only concern is that I don't like the model enough to buy it just as a brim spam counter.

Talking about counter... how would be the best way to counter Magnus with a Tzeentch army? For some reason I don't want to include big characters in my list but one of my regular opponents is just finishing Magnus' paint. Should I try to bring some extra firepower to deal with him or just to try minimizing his damage?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/13 20:41:04


Post by: blackmage


bring lot of "small character" and smite him to death.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/13 21:57:15


Post by: DarkBlack


 Cephalobeard wrote:
If only the blue scribes had the option to cast a spell of their choice; they'd be an auto include imo.


That's good then; if anything is an "auto include" that unit isn't balanced.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/13 22:29:39


Post by: jy2


JakeSiren wrote:
Is it me or does the blue scribes seem like a particularly good counter to Brimstone spam? Get into 12" of multiple units, their test is reduced by 1 (so needing 6's), and if they fail then the scribes automatically casts smite - particularly useful if you fly near a strong enemy with multiple smites built up.

I haven't played against any Psykers yet (damn 'crons), but at under 100 points they don't seem bad.

Another counter to Smite-spam would be the Culexus and he is readily available to Imperial armies.

Just make sure your "Smite" list has the tools to deal with the likes of the Culexus (i.e. Exalted flamers to shoot him down or a unit that can kill him on the charge).



Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/13 22:50:25


Post by: JakeSiren


 Cephalobeard wrote:
If only the blue scribes had the option to cast a spell of their choice; they'd be an auto include imo.

It would be nice. Though I wonder if you could effectively do just that ien matched play?

Unless I've missed something there is no requirement for the Blue Scribes to cast first.

So say you cast bolt of change from a herald. Then you roll the random power for Xirat’p’s Sorcerous Barrage and roll Bolt of Change. What happens?

a) A second casting of bolt
b) Nothing
c) Re-roll of the invalid result

If C then that would allow you to cast the two powers you don't want the Scribes using, leaving it with only one valid option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jy2 wrote:
JakeSiren wrote:
Is it me or does the blue scribes seem like a particularly good counter to Brimstone spam? Get into 12" of multiple units, their test is reduced by 1 (so needing 6's), and if they fail then the scribes automatically casts smite - particularly useful if you fly near a strong enemy with multiple smites built up.

I haven't played against any Psykers yet (damn 'crons), but at under 100 points they don't seem bad.

Another counter to Smite-spam would be the Culexus and he is readily available to Imperial armies.

Just make sure your "Smite" list has the tools to deal with the likes of the Culexus (i.e. Exalted flamers to shoot him down or a unit that can kill him on the charge).

Yeah, I've seen a few people talk about using him as a lightning rod of sorts.

TBH though, even if Brims don't have Smite they are stupidly cheep bodies with a decent save which makes them good at capturing objectives. Just bring a whole bunch of 10 horror units for 20pts a pop and you have something very difficult to chew through. And due to numbers should be able to hold objectives against most other armies.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/14 12:47:17


Post by: Cephalobeard


Brimstones also can be pretty hilarious against chaff units. With each base of them having 2 attacks, and going to s2 near a herald, you can actually finish off guardsmen with them if people get too close.

Not at all saying it's reliable, but I have definitely put a few clutch wounds on things by tossing a brimstone squad at it.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/14 14:14:12


Post by: ochobits


 Cephalobeard wrote:
Brimstones also can be pretty hilarious against chaff units. With each base of them having 2 attacks, and going to s2 near a herald, you can actually finish off guardsmen with them if people get too close.

Not at all saying it's reliable, but I have definitely put a few clutch wounds on things by tossing a brimstone squad at it.


You can also cast Boon of change of them for the lulz. If you are lucky you can get 20 attacks of S3 or 30 attacks of S2. Nobody expected the Brimstone Inquisition!

 blackmage wrote:
bring lot of "small character" and smite him to death.


Yeah, that's what I thought from the very beginning, but even with a lot of characters he can deny the witch several times both with Magnus or with his own horrors + small characters. And I kind of want more versatility, don't want to create a list for each opponent but one list that can deal with as many different lists as possible. Adding some CSM seems to be the best solutions, maybe some termies with combi-meltas can take some of those 18 wounds down...




Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/14 16:14:46


Post by: blackmage


list which spam characters and smite is pretty versatile it can deal with a good range of armies, smite+exalted can handle a decent number of different targets.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/15 02:29:08


Post by: Cephalobeard


Played against GK tonight. Draigo, rifle dreads, interceptors and some strike squads.

I used my list I've been posting.

Tabled them turn 4. No contest.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/15 03:17:23


Post by: whembly


 Cephalobeard wrote:
Played against GK tonight. Draigo, rifle dreads, interceptors and some strike squads.

I used my list I've been posting.

Tabled them turn 4. No contest.

GK 'spose to be the anti-daemon eh??

Couldn't handle all them smites?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/15 03:27:01


Post by: Cephalobeard


More smite's than they could deny, as well as 10 Exalted Flamers shooting into Paladins or Pistol shooting into Strike/Interceptors, they weren't long for this world.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/15 03:28:06


Post by: whembly


So Exalted Flamers still performing well for you?

Man... I need to go fishing on Ebay to get more of them... I only have 4 now.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/15 04:32:45


Post by: Cephalobeard


They're very, very strong. D3 shots at s9 ap-4 is not to be understated, especially when you have 10+ of them.

If I didn't prefer having 12 full power smite's and 8 mini smite's I'd want even more of them.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/15 13:07:31


Post by: Galef


 whembly wrote:
So Exalted Flamers still performing well for you?

Man... I need to go fishing on Ebay to get more of them... I only have 4 now.

I'll be using regular flamer models that are beefed up. It's much cheaper than trying to get the real ones out of the chariot kit
Regular flamers aren't all that much smaller than E-Flamer, so putting them on a larger base (40mm should due) and elevating their height (on a rock or green-stuffed flamers) is really all you need to make them work. The regular flamer kit comes with enough extra arms to give all 3 arms each


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/15 14:35:20


Post by: Cephalobeard


Just keep in mind Exalted Flamers come with oval bases like SM bikers, which makes screening and assaulting with them much easier than a round base.

I trapped a culexus in by making a triangle with Exalted Flamers and some horrors. It sat there for two rounds unable to do anything.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/15 19:26:32


Post by: blackmage


 Cephalobeard wrote:
Just keep in mind Exalted Flamers come with oval bases like SM bikers, which makes screening and assaulting with them much easier than a round base.

I trapped a culexus in by making a triangle with Exalted Flamers and some horrors. It sat there for two rounds unable to do anything.

i really didn't understand if you think add Magnus to a list like that is profitable or will be still better keep the "untargettable characters only" theme, tysm


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/15 20:06:37


Post by: luke1705


They're both very good. I think if you want to go all out untargetable characters, Magnus is a little worse. But I think for a more normal list that doesn't make your opponent target exclusively brimstones, Magnus is better


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/15 20:34:14


Post by: blackmage


i have in list an Ik (to be accurate a kitan engine) and Magnus i could play some giant spawns but then the smite/exalted theme change deeply.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/15 23:27:23


Post by: ZergSmasher


 whembly wrote:
So Exalted Flamers still performing well for you?

Man... I need to go fishing on Ebay to get more of them... I only have 4 now.

Hey, that's 4 more than I've got. Of course I've never played Tzeentch either.

I may need to come up with a few E-flamers, though, they look scary strong. I'm just not sure I want to get really into Tzeentch. I'd rather expand my Khorne and Nurgle collections first. Only Tzeentch stuff I got is 3 regular Flamers and 10 Pink Horrors (ugh).


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/16 00:07:19


Post by: ochobits


 ZergSmasher wrote:


Hey, that's 4 more than I've got. Of course I've never played Tzeentch either.

I may need to come up with a few E-flamers, though, they look scary strong. I'm just not sure I want to get really into Tzeentch. I'd rather expand my Khorne and Nurgle collections first. Only Tzeentch stuff I got is 3 regular Flamers and 10 Pink Horrors (ugh).


Hey, that could be a promising start for a Tzeentch list. Add the Blue/Brimstone box and you will have 3 units that could spam Smite plus 3 flamers which are quite reliable - maybe not as much as the E-flamer but quite decent.

At the end it is a matter of loving the look of the army. The God of Change requieres you to use a lot of pink, purple and blue when painting your army, but it also provides a lot of opportunities for cool convertions, especially if you bring some CSM allies to the table.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/16 02:15:56


Post by: Cephalobeard


Purples, pinks and blues are your friend, but some greens make things pop really well!

[Thumb - IMG_20170705_174922.jpg]
[Thumb - IMG_20170410_104114.jpg]


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/16 02:35:32


Post by: labmouse42


Today I played in a tourney with this list, and I have my comments and thoughts below.

* GUO
* Daemon Prince
* Herald of Nurgle
* 7 Plague Drones /instruments
* 7 Nurglings
* 30 Plague Bearers /instruments
* 30 Plague Bearers /instruments
* Knight with Gatling Cannon / Double Battle Cannon

It played better than I thought it would
I went 2 and 1 in a Nova style format. I could have won the second game as well had I taken 'end of game' objectives instead of progressive. Even if I had won all 3 games, I would not have had enough battle points to win the entire event.
That said, it still did better than I thought it would. I played in an event where people brought the cheese as hard as they could -- and here I was showing up with a well rounded fluffy list.

Nurglings are awesome
The nurglings were once again awesome to have. 7 models at 4 wounds each is just a ton of wounds to be shot off objectives. They soaked up tremendous amounts of firepower in all 3 games. For ITC format, you will want to run with 6 of them. Nova is a touch more forgiving so taking 7 is OK -- and it's Nurgle's number.

Plaguebearers were objective holding all-stars
The 30 daemon blobs were rockstars at holding objectives. In one game, I had a squad strung along 3 separate objectives. In another game, I grabbed the relic and advanced back to my deployment zone. My opponent looked at me and said -- well, now I have to kill 30 plaguebearers to get to it.
They were also f'ing hard to kill. 30 T4 bodies with 5++/DR and -1 to hit when 20+ in size was just durable as heck. My Tau opponent was able to wipe out a squad in one round of shooting by focusing his entire army against a squad, but for my other opponents they mostly ignored them.

Banners Suck
The 25 point banners are overcosted. The entire tourney, it would have caused one plague drone to return. That would have been a net 44 point gain for a 225 point investment over 3 games. Totally not worth it. I did not miss them at all.

GUO was a workhorse
As always, my GUO was a workhorse. He killed a squad of custodial terminators nearly single handedly, he killed a riptide, a squad of pathfinders, a squad of firewarriors, a dark eldar raider, and a squad of dark eldar warriors. He died in 2/3 of my games -- which was due to the meta being lots of heavy vehicles and people bringing tons of anti-armor weapons to retaliate.
Still, the GUO was a great deal for 248 points. He killed anything he touched, threw out smites, stream of corruption, and fleshy abundance like candy.

Plague Drones Got Lots of Attention
The Plauge Drones did great in my first game, but in both other games they just underperfomed. They did their job of taking lots of damage and threatening vehicles, but they just did not pull their weight this game. That said, they often do great. Using the nurgle power that gives them +1 to wound helps greatly. When attacking a target that's T7, they would wound on a 5+, which means they reroll due to poison all 4+s and lower -- giving more chances for 6s to come up.
This worked really well when fighting targets with more than 2 wounds. Any failed saves were causing 2-3 wounds to the target unit -- which sucked for the ravagers they hit.
The prince flying in the middle of the flock really helped to increase damage output by his claws and rerolling 1s.

I Played Conservatively with the Herald
The Herald did not get into one battle. He sat back buffing my units and occasionally casting smite -- and he did great. I started with him between each plauge bearer squad and moved him closer to whichever got more action.
I was pleased with how the herald performed this event.

The Knight was OK
The local New England meta has shifted to a lot of LoW, which means lots of people are bringing anti-titan weapons. To a wrathknight with suncannons and Dscythes with Eldard dooming/guding behind him, to triple custodial LRs pumping out 12 LCs hitting on 2+ each round, the knight died quick. The knight did manage to get me first blood a few times, but overall it was just ... not the greatest. Having some ranged attacks are good, but I'm thinking I might move to using death guard instead, or maybe some daemon engines.

The New Daemon Prince FAQ is awesome
Being 8 wounds means that my DP could hide in the middle of a squad of plaguebearers or drones. That was huge this event, as he was always my warlord. On one game he took 6 damage. I flew him behind a screen of plauge bearers then healed him up with my herald so deny my opponent form getting Slay the Warlord. Since you can pick from whereever you want, my opponent had to gind through 30 plaugebeaers to get at the prince. It worked out very well.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/16 02:37:06


Post by: anticitizen013


I love the nebula-esque effect on the wings of the LoC! Great job!


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/16 02:39:27


Post by: labmouse42


 anticitizen013 wrote:
I love the nebula-esque effect on the wings of the LoC! Great job!
Agreed. It's really tight.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/16 02:46:23


Post by: ZergSmasher


Thanks for the mini report, labmouse! As an up-and-coming Nurgle player, it was nice to see what our putrescent forces can do and what works for them. I'm figuring on playing Death Guard more than Nurgle Daemons, but I've also got plans to run a combined force with both in it.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/16 02:46:52


Post by: Cephalobeard


Hilariously, we're from the same place, Labmouse. Where did you go for your tournament?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/16 08:00:42


Post by: Shandara


Has anyone tried Khorne to success yet?

In my games so far a pure Khorne list suffers from a lack of shooting (hah) and even if you get into combat they will just Fall Back and shoot again. Hellblades seem good only against elite infantry, trying to crack Hordes or big Vehicles, Khorne suffers from enough attacks/punch.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/16 09:30:11


Post by: Vomikron Noxis


Nice work with a fluffy list labmouse! What would you change if you did it again?


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/16 12:47:17


Post by: labmouse42


 Cephalobeard wrote:
Hilariously, we're from the same place, Labmouse. Where did you go for your tournament?
Game Castle in Londonberry NJ.
Are you going to be at the Portal in Manchester, CT in 2 weeks? It's a great shop.
I'd love to see your changling and LoC in person.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Thanks for the mini report, labmouse! As an up-and-coming Nurgle player, it was nice to see what our putrescent forces can do and what works for them. I'm figuring on playing Death Guard more than Nurgle Daemons, but I've also got plans to run a combined force with both in it.
One of the cool things is that, according to ITC rules, you take the most exclusive faction keyword shared by all models in your most expensive detachment as your 'army group'
This means if you run Death Guard and Nurgle Daemons, your most exclusive faction keyword is 'Nurgle'. Isn't that fitting?
It also applies to Khorne, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, etc...


 Shandara wrote:
In my games so far a pure Khorne list suffers from a lack of shooting (hah) and even if you get into combat they will just Fall Back and shoot again. Hellblades seem good only against elite infantry, trying to crack Hordes or big Vehicles, Khorne suffers from enough attacks/punch.
Have you tried Skull Cannons? They look good on paper. Renegade knights might help add some shooting.

Look at bezerkers for your Khorne solutions to horde problems. Each bezerker with a chainsword gets 6 attacks in the fight phase. 10 of them are 60 attacks hitting on a 3+. I've faced it a number of times and every time it's ripped my army to pieces.
For added hilarity, your champion, while in the fight phase, can summon a squad of bloodletters. The bloodletters only need a 8" charge with the instruments.

I've not tried Khorne yet. I only have 6 bloodcrushers and 30 bloodletters. If I had more of a real force I would try it.


Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition @ 2017/07/16 13:02:15


Post by: Cephalobeard


Re: The Portal, sure am. Will be at that and then the event following in August.

What a coincidence, haha.