My opinion? Supplement with Whirlwinds or Basilisks. Or both! Let one handle your anti-infantry needs while the Exorcists rip apart heavy armored troops and vehicles!
Nice as those rules are, Sydney, I'm already feeling bad enough having to proxy meltaguns to field Dominion squads until I can save up some more cash or find reasonable deals on eBay. Convincing them to let me try homebrew rules will open up a can of worms. Especially with the power gamer of our group. >.>
SisterSydney wrote: How about quadruple heavy flamer Retributors? I know they're not the legendary easy bake oven of old, but has anyone tried them in 7E?
I have been messing with them in 2 different ways.
1) with issodon to infiltrate the unit inside a repressor or immolator (in which case they have to disembark to flame). I usually have 3 dom units scout forward and 3 infiltrated units (2-3 of the HF rets) all in my opponents face. It is a truly devastating alpha strike and can almost finish a fight turn 1.
.
How are you achieving this? If you're taking three units of Dominions and three units of Retributors then you're probably running your Sisters as your Primary detachment. With that being the case Lias Issodon is your HQ choice for your allied Raptors detachment, meaning he cannot be your army warlord and thus doesn't get the benefit of the Master of Ambush trait.
Lias Issodon is pretty fun to use and would work quite nicely with a unit of heavy bolter Retributors perched on a Bastion with ammo dump for a bunch of rending shots with a 2+ cover save. Infiltrate, Isolate, Destroy coupled with a Callidus Assassin can be really effective in getting some wounds in nice and early against a key unit/potential trouble causer. Add in a unit of Scouts and a Storm Talon and you have a pretty decent Allied Detachment + Assassin. It's just a shame about the Master of Ambush tactic.
One of the 7th edition changes is that any of your characters may be your Warlord, regardless of which detachment they're in. Further, Issodon's trait requires him to be your Warlord. Also, you can have two or more primary detachments now, regardless of points cost.
Taikishi wrote: One of the 7th edition changes is that any of your characters may be your Warlord, regardless of which detachment they're in. Further, Issodon's trait requires him to be your Warlord. Also, you can have two or more primary detachments now, regardless of points cost.
Any character that isn't in your allied detachment, that is.
"Allied Detachment
RESTRICTIONS
This Detachment cannot be your Primary Detachment.
Your Warlord can never be chosen from this Detachment.
All units chosen must have the same Faction (or no Faction).
All units chosen must have a different Faction to any of the units in your
Primary Detachment (or no Faction)."
Automatically Appended Next Post: If you can get him in a different kind of detachment without that restriction, you'd be fine.
Regardless, you're allowed to have multiple primary detachments now and last I saw there's no restriction that all of your combined arms detachments have to be the same Faction, only that all entries in that detachment be from the same faction.
So you can run, for example:
Sororitas CAD * Saint Celestine
* 2 Battle Sister Squads
* Seraphim Squad
* 2 Retributor Squads in Repressors
a. Make Issodon your Warlord
b. Give Celestine and the Retributors Infiltrate through Master of Ambush
c. Use Shrike's trait to attach him to the Seraphim squad and have him, Celestine, and the Seraphim all infiltrate together
Taikishi wrote: I actually don't own a base rulebook and most of the rules changes I'm aware of come from blog posts. I merely misinterpreted the posts in question.
Many apologies and I now offer my seppuku to cleanse my shame...
Taikishi wrote: Regardless, you're allowed to have multiple primary detachments now and last I saw there's no restriction that all of your combined arms detachments have to be the same Faction, only that all entries in that detachment be from the same faction.
So you can run, for example:
Sororitas CAD * Saint Celestine
* 2 Battle Sister Squads
* Seraphim Squad
* 2 Retributor Squads in Repressors
a. Make Issodon your Warlord
b. Give Celestine and the Retributors Infiltrate through Master of Ambush
c. Use Shrike's trait to attach him to the Seraphim squad and have him, Celestine, and the Seraphim all infiltrate together
I hadn't considered dual CAD lists as I've never encountered one and for some reason was under the impression that you could run as many CADs as you wanted provided they were from the same faction. Running a dual CAD like above would indeed give you the option to choose which Character becomes your Warlord and that faction in turn becomes your primary detachment. You can have multiple CADs but only one of these is your primary.
I'm not sure that Issodon's warlord rule allows him to override the rules in the 7th ed book if taken as part of an Allied Detachment as it is quite specific about your warlord never being chosen from this detachment. If his updated rules override what the rulebook has to say then fair enough and I could utilize him without any dual CAD shenanigans but I don't believe this to be the case.
I'm too used to making lists using TO restrictions so it's normally a two detachment limit, 1 x CAD and 1 x Allied Detachment (sometimes with self ally allowed), so I never thought about running a Dual CAD setup. Especially as I thought it was restricted to being the same faction. It definitely opens me up to some new possibilities, but to be honest I do like and will probably stick to the general TO list requirements as I like to play with and gain experience with tournament legal lists.
Yeah, looking at TO list limitations makes me very sad given how limited the current Sisters codex is and my desire for non-spam lists. I would be less sad if my current obsession weren't how to counter Codex: Wave Serpent or if Sisters just had access to drop pods.
Granted, most of the "big" tournaments aren't allowing ForgeWorld (yet), but if a model has a trait that requires it to be your Warlord but is part of an allied detachment... can you even take the model? Or must you flip which army is your primary detachment?
Granted, most of the "big" tournaments aren't allowing ForgeWorld (yet), but if a model has a trait that requires it to be your Warlord but is part of an allied detachment... can you even take the model? Or must you flip which army is your primary detachment?
Your primary detachment wouldn't flip as you have to assign a warlord from a non-allied detachment, meaning any CAD or formation. As far as I understand it you would lose the warlord trait for that character as per the warlord trait rules when taken as part of an allied detachment. He cannot be taken if the rules are updated to state that a model that must become the armies warlord can never be taken as part of an allied detachment. Or however a TO wants to rule it. So Issodon either loses his warlord trait when taken as part of an allied detachment or can only be included as part of an armies' primary detachment as that would be the only way to fulfill his warlord requirement. It would also mean that you could only ever take one character with that warlord rule per army as both cannot be your warlord. So no Lias Issodon + Lugft Huron combos.
Another way to accomplish this BTW is to take multiple allied SoB detachments.
Alternatively depending on how you interpret the siege assault vanguard detachment as working in 7ed you could take a SoBCAD and a siege assault vanguard "primary detachment".
Currently this is not a great way to do things in a TO setting. Hopefully they release another SM supplement but this time with a new FOC in it (like the covens supplement).
I tried out my first SW drop pod today and just want to say, deepstriking Heavy flamer Retributiors are delicious. I've got my second drop pod and thinking hard about what I want to do.
The Heavy flamers seem really worth it but I really want that third heavy slot for my Avenger.
Green is Best! wrote: I wish penitent engines could be put into a drop pod.... that would be delicious.
allie with space wolves... take drop pod as fast attack, add penitent engine... I'm pretty sure this works anyway.
But it would be better to put dominions (4 meltas and a combi) or the cannoness + command squad (5 with meltas and a combi) in the pod.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Madcat87 wrote: I tried out my first SW drop pod today and just want to say, deepstriking Heavy flamer Retributiors are delicious. I've got my second drop pod and thinking hard about what I want to do.
The Heavy flamers seem really worth it but I really want that third heavy slot for my Avenger.
cannoness command squad can all take heavy flamers right? Thats 5 heavy flamers vs 4
The command squad lacks the acts of faith that make those units deadly, or the ability to take extra models. 4 heavy flamers might clear an objective. 9 sisters with a priest are more likely to hold it, or at least force the enemy to devote a lot more firepower to removing them.
Unless the penitent engine becomes classified as a dreadnought, the drop pod doesn't have the transport capacity for it.
Unless the penitent engine becomes classified as a dreadnought, the drop pod doesn't have the transport capacity for it.
This. Drop Pod specifically allows dreadnoughts, not PEs.
On a different, yet related note, I have 4 PEs done. 4 more are en route. I also started painting my repentia. So, I should be able to field the Repentant Host in a few weeks. I will do my best to get some pics of them dying horrible deaths in the name of the Emperor.
Madcat87 wrote: I've got my second drop pod and thinking hard about what I want to do.
A battle conclave with crusaders, DCA, and some priests could be nice. If you take the SW detachment with all the HQs you could make an interesting melee units from priests, crusaders, and SWICs.
The best is if you can take another detachment and bring a culexus assassin.
I'm not keen on the Battle conclave as I was planning on going for thunderwolf support at higher point levels. The cannoness + heavy flamer command squad isn't a terrible idea, maybe I'll try it for the lols as I really want to use my cannoness model.
If the colors matched mine at all or I hadn't gone crazy and bought like 100 sisters at some point when I thought they might discontinue the metals, I'd look at it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hey Petre, with your CoF detachment, why do you go with Harald as the HQ? more bang for the buck vs a vanilla wolf lord?
Harald V Wolf Lord is a very small difference though, and not if you start slightly modifying the Lord. Maybe for his Unique trait? (might be remembering wrong but i think he's got smth special)
I actually ended up swapping it out for a kraken bone lord with shield. But harald is cheap and has a very aolid trait.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I actually ended up swapping it out for a kraken bone lord with shield. But harald is cheap and has a very aolid trait.
His Lord of the Wolfkin rule is the one i was referring to. Pretty good rule that only he gets.
But a Wolf Lord on TW with Axe and shield is pretty much the exact same point cost. Equipping him with Runic armour and the Wulfen stone makes him so much better though =P
In other News, went to MCM London Comic Con and had a quick Chat with Forgeworld.
Sisters of Silence sort of confirmed for "when the book comes out". As it will be the 7th-8th Horus Heresy book and the 3rd is only out, it will be a wait....
Basically they're female warriors who have no psychic presence in the warp. They were used to fight the Thousand Sons on Prospero as a hard counter.
As above, they are mainly in the Horus Heresy books. Even though the fluff un-relates them to Sisters of battle, they have very very very curious similarities.
They are mainly in the "Tales of Heresy" book.
"The Sisters of Silence, also known as the Silent Sisterhood, were the anti-psychic militant arm of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica during the Great Crusade, and were internally referred to as the organization's Departmento Investigates."
"The eventual fate of the Sisters of Silence is unknown. There are no canonical references to them in the 41st millennium, however neither are there any references to them being disbanded or destroyed. Opinion is divided as to their fate; some fans believe they still man the Blackships, whereas others believe they were decimated protecting the Emperor's secret project at the height of the Heresy and were either disbanded or incorporated into the fledgling Inquisition."
I personally would go with the "Became Sisters of Battle" option above. Too many similarities, and fluff-wise "they just needed more numbers so took all girls rather than only Blanks (psychic nulls)"
Except that normal humans HATE nulls -- their lack of a normal warp signature (aka "soul") makes other people freak the feth out. Even low-grade nulls like Jurgen from the Commissar Cain books make everyone around them uncomfortable. I think the Ecclesiarchy's first reaction to a Null wouldn't be "valuable anti-psyker resource, must recruit," it'd be "soulless abomination, must BURN."
Lol, i suppose... But it would make the Black Ships seem so much weaker (only staffed by Sisters instead of Nulls) and then how do you explain the Ecclesiarchy's close ties with the Officio Assassinorum? (via Inquisition, might be wrong)
All the Sisters of Silence became Culexus assassins? =P
I mean, look at this picture and tell me they have nothing do do with the Adepta Sororitas: Link
I suspect the ones that survived the Horus Heresy -- when they were on the front line -- eventually got picked up as Inquisitorial assets. They seem too highly trained to render down for Culexus. There's even fluff about Inquisitors recruiting Nulls. I actually homebrewed an inquisitorial null acolyte at one point but wasn't particularly satisfied so I didn't post it (yes, I really don't post every halfbaked idea I have for a new unit, it just seems that way).
I personally would go with the "Became Sisters of Battle" option above. Too many similarities, and fluff-wise "they just needed more numbers so took all girls rather than only Blanks (psychic nulls)"
The only problem with that is the six thousand year gap between the end of the Horus Heresy and the founding of the Adepta Sororitas.
I personally would go with the "Became Sisters of Battle" option above. Too many similarities, and fluff-wise "they just needed more numbers so took all girls rather than only Blanks (psychic nulls)"
The only problem with that is the six thousand year gap between the end of the Horus Heresy and the founding of the Adepta Sororitas.
Well actually, for me that's not a problem at all, but in fact a bonus. 6 000 years is more than enough to explain the transition lol
Although in terms of 40k Years, i think it was SisterSydney that had a great analysis on how it might not be that much.... Since i read that post i'm actually really into the idea!
ED: Actually it might not have been SS. I just remember it was a post about how "Only Imperial records tell you it is 40k" and, similar to the Dark Ages in Europe, that time period is muddled and those 6000 years might actually be 600 or 60, but no one knows (but the emperor!)
Ever since i read that post, i apply it to all timelines and fluff in 40k.
Guess what?
Suddenly everything works and makes sense. Most recently i think was reading the Imperial Knights fluff and their "Existance since man colonised the stars"
All we need is for the "Imperial Year" to be worth 36 an a half "Standard Earth rotations" and it would all make sense.... damn that Emperor confusing everyone! lol
Just wanted to point out that a major GT qualifying heat in the UK has been won by a SoB army this past weekend. I dont know the list yet but the player was Nathan Roberts. It was Heat 3 of the UK40KGT
"Its was Sisters / Marines, if I remember 3 exorcists, the forgeworld repressors (armour 12 rhinos with a multi-melta and 8 firepoints) for drive by melta (with ignore cover from faith), chapter master of doom from marines."
Not vanilla Sisters (As the Rank page would seem), but a good win nonetheless
In contrary what I have seen in this thread (I've read the entire thing) I prefer squads of nine sisters+ priest. They are really durable and I found that at this size "She who bales, failes" not really applying to them. I have had many occasions where I stepped out, shot a squad to pieces and went on to live a couple of more turns!
On topic of the flamer, HF combo. In my meta we read, debated and read, debated again if you could fire them simultaneously or not. We all came to the same conclusion that they could. So I still feel that this combo is the way to go in these large squads but that's just a personal preference.
On topic of the flamer, HF combo. In my meta we read, debated and read, debated again if you could fire them simultaneously or not. We all came to the same conclusion that they could. So I still feel that this combo is the way to go in these large squads but that's just a personal preference.
The rules are pretty clear that all weapons in a squad fire simultaneously. However, you resolve wounds by matter of range. So, regardless of how you resolve it, they can only kill things within template range of the respective models.
pretre wrote: Simultaneously firing changed in 7th...
Yeah, I play the Flamer / Heavy Flamer combo on some units. They are 2 different weapons so you'd have to fire them separately in 7th Ed.
In terms of recommendations: i'd say fire the Flamer first, due to the lower chance of kills followed by the HF. This also varies depending on what the Target is...
Also try to keep them on separate sides of the Unit, also helps.
Celtic Strike wrote: Hey guys, been away for a while, made a few Narrative Battle reports, I'll post them in here too.
Going to be commenting as i watch but for the 1st game:
What kind of mission was that? 2 objectives closer than 12" or 6" from each other?
Standard Sisters troops Scouting Turn 1? Inquisition allies or Warlord Trait?
That is an interesting theory. GW has made a point that the codexes are written from the perspective of the race writing the book and propaganda would definitely be in character for the Imperium.
Loved the bat rep video. Looks like many heretics were cleansed and xenos were burned. Bad luck with the Saint on the second vid though. That's some bad luck there.
Celtic Strike wrote: Hey guys, been away for a while, made a few Narrative Battle reports, I'll post them in here too.
Going to be commenting as i watch but for the 1st game:
What kind of mission was that? 2 objectives closer than 12" or 6" from each other?
Standard Sisters troops Scouting Turn 1? Inquisition allies or Warlord Trait?
Quite confused lol
Lol. 2 Dominion squads, they have scout base.
We were playing Combat patrol missions, On a much smaller table. Don't know where we got them from but they were fun.
@War, the Saint serves as she must. haha. I would've been upset if I hadn't've taken out so much of his army in the battle. As it stood it was one bad roll in anotherwise great game.
Lol. 2 Dominion squads, they have scout base.
We were playing Combat patrol missions, On a much smaller table. Don't know where we got them from but they were fun.
They do look like fun, start the mission with both Warlords in combat in the middle? Or did i miss that too?
As for the scout:
At 1:30 in the video: "My retributors Scouted up" and at 1:47: "The regular Sister Squad Scouted up here".
Was that supposed to be "moved up" rather than "scouted"? Because as far as i recall, only the dominions get scout unless you got the Master of Ambush trait That's the only thing i was confused about.
Oh and Vid 2: "Avenger Bolt Canon" not "Vulcan Mega Bolter" lol. They are both S6 AP3 but the flyer has only got 7 Shots, not 15 (i'm sure it was just a name error as you mentioned 7 shots)
Lol. 2 Dominion squads, they have scout base.
We were playing Combat patrol missions, On a much smaller table. Don't know where we got them from but they were fun.
They do look like fun, start the mission with both Warlords in combat in the middle? Or did i miss that too?
As for the scout:
At 1:30 in the video: "My retributors Scouted up" and at 1:47: "The regular Sister Squad Scouted up here".
Was that supposed to be "moved up" rather than "scouted"? Because as far as i recall, only the dominions get scout unless you got the Master of Ambush trait That's the only thing i was confused about.
Oh and Vid 2: "Avenger Bolt Canon" not "Vulcan Mega Bolter" lol. They are both S6 AP3 but the flyer has only got 7 Shots, not 15 (i'm sure it was just a name error as you mentioned 7 shots)
In the first mission we had officers who were fighting, if your won you had a small advantage in other games. (Like getting to choose to be attack or defender in the next game, ect)
My 'Dominons' scouted up and the regular sisters moved up there. Is how I should've said it. I just record without writing anything down so I make errors but I'll be more careful in the future.
L1ttle wrote: Has anyone bought the new campaign book?
Nope, but would also like to know what is contained inside.
Just some "sacrificial" side story? or any rules to speak of?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Celtic Strike wrote: In the first mission we had officers who were fighting, if your won you had a small advantage in other games. (Like getting to choose to be attack or defender in the next game, ect)
That's a pretty cool game set-up for tournaments. House rules? I'd be interested in getting a read
(sigh) so after 10 months away from 40k, I find myself being dragged back into the game, restarting sisters and also wanting to do grey knights.(getting a better full time job helped)
Been playing infinity and warmachine/hordes in the mean time, I guess playing other games rekindled my interest in 40k(great so now I have three games eating all my money lol it's not like I've been playing video games like I used in the past)
Has there been any word at all about a hard copy release for sisters codex? I lost my pw on the black library website and nobody got back to me on my request since they don't do password recovery. I'd rather not have to buy it again if there's something on the horizon, though I have a fairly strong idea of what I'd be building anyway.
How are your local areas dealing with the plethora of allies options and dataslates/formations, is your area strictly the army by itself or pretty open about add-ons? I like my mono sisters but I'm stoked by the idea of adding a small detachment of GK or vice versa.(Got tired of playing namby pamby eldar, played them for 14 years, finally going full imperium, GK will be my first "marine" army)
Dervos wrote: Has there been any word at all about a hard copy release for sisters codex? I lost my pw on the black library website and nobody got back to me on my request since they don't do password recovery. I'd rather not have to buy it again if there's something on the horizon, though I have a fairly strong idea of what I'd be building anyway.
How are your local areas dealing with the plethora of allies options and dataslates/formations, is your area strictly the army by itself or pretty open about add-ons? I like my mono sisters but I'm stoked by the idea of adding a small detachment of GK or vice versa.(Got tired of playing namby pamby eldar, played them for 14 years, finally going full imperium, GK will be my first "marine" army)
I tend to run a lot of mixed armies to get the most out of all of my collection. Running SOB/SW tomorrow at a 3 round tournament.
Managed to get sight of a copy of Leviathan today....
More Sisters stuff than I thought (no rules obviously) - some new artwork and resused old, quite a bit of fluff and they seem to be very much a formidable force in the book even scenarios based around them with pics of models!
Do they live to the end? I've seen some pages of fluff where they kick chitinous Tyranid arse and survive, but I don't know if they make it through to the end of the book without getting stuffed in the fridge.
SisterSydney wrote: Do they live to the end? I've seen some pages of fluff where they kick chitinous Tyranid arse and survive, but I don't know if they make it through to the end of the book without getting stuffed in the fridge.
Spoiler:
not sure but I think they die on the last page - or at least their leader does - but they do appear to kick ass and new pics!
SisterSydney wrote: Do they live to the end? I've seen some pages of fluff where they kick chitinous Tyranid arse and survive, but I don't know if they make it through to the end of the book without getting stuffed in the fridge.
SisterSydney wrote: Do they live to the end? I've seen some pages of fluff where they kick chitinous Tyranid arse and survive, but I don't know if they make it through to the end of the book without getting stuffed in the fridge.
Well, you could argue that if they all died just to make the Blood Angels seem more badass when they finally stop them, then it would be a fridge-stuffing... although more egalitarian since the Guard went down too.
evildrcheese wrote: Pah, all of you people who don't embrace the obscene bling that is the organ missile launcher are heretics as far as I'm concerned and should be burnt accordingly.
D
A little bit of putty and plastic or brass tubing you can make your own organ if you want. I did my first that way. Not the best job, but I think it turned out pretty well. I tiled the organ in an attempt to make it look more like a weapon. The Icons are charms from Hobby Lobby.
evildrcheese wrote: Pah, all of you people who don't embrace the obscene bling that is the organ missile launcher are heretics as far as I'm concerned and should be burnt accordingly.
D
A little bit of putty and plastic or brass tubing you can make your own organ if you want. I did my first that way. Not the best job, but I think it turned out pretty well. I tiled the organ in an attempt to make it look more like a weapon. The Icons are charms from Hobby Lobby.
Rock'n'Roll. A true believer!
Is the Leviathan book work picking solely for the SoB content? Are their any Imperial formations (I.e guard) or is it only Nids rule wise?
Dervos wrote: How are your local areas dealing with the plethora of allies options and dataslates/formations, is your area strictly the army by itself or pretty open about add-ons? I like my mono sisters but I'm stoked by the idea of adding a small detachment of GK or vice versa.(Got tired of playing namby pamby eldar, played them for 14 years, finally going full imperium, GK will be my first "marine" army)
Personally, i think that a pure Sisters force lacks S4+ AP3. You have more than enough S4-5 AP5-4 stuff around, as you do S8 AP1. One set to deal with hordes/low T/low Armour stuff and the other for TEQ/Vehicles and MC. We are missing the MEQ cleaner. One of the hardest counter to any pure sister army would be a Space Marine MSU List IMHO.
So as allies, i would suggest "Something to deal with that 10-man Tactical Marine Squad". If they can do more than that, it's just bonuses. Alpha-strike Units and "tanky" Units are good for the Sisters:
- SW Drop-pod assault/ Thunderwolf Cavs. Turn 1 Pain so that your sisters can "set up shop"
- Inquisition / GK / Imperial Knights. They can take the pain for 1-2 Turns (IK probably 3-4 Turns), same as above: while sisters deploy
My choice at the moment: Knight Acheron LoW for my Sisters. Only supported them with a Knight Errant in played Games so far, and the Bullet-magnet does its work.
I can only imagine the S7 AP3 Hellstorm to be exactly what i needed making space for the Blob and Rhinos
[edited because I somehow managed to lose my original post...]
SQRT(-2) wrote:
A little bit of putty and plastic or brass tubing you can make your own organ if you want. I did my first that way. Not the best job, but I think it turned out pretty well. I tiled the organ in an attempt to make it look more like a weapon. The Icons are charms from Hobby Lobby.
Beautiful alt-Exorcist. Call it the Saint Katyusha pattern?
BlackTalos wrote:Personally, i think that a pure Sisters force lacks S4+ AP3. You have more than enough S4-5 AP5-4 stuff around, as you do S8 AP1. One set to deal with hordes/low T/low Armour stuff and the other for TEQ/Vehicles and MC. We are missing the MEQ cleaner. One of the hardest counter to any pure sister army would be a Space Marine MSU List IMHO.
So as allies, i would suggest "Something to deal with that 10-man Tactical Marine Squad". If they can do more than that, it's just bonuses. Alpha-strike Units and "tanky" Units are good for the Sisters...
If your opponents are Forgeworld-friendly, you don't need allies, just an Avenger.
If your opponents are homebrew-friendly, please try my Vindicta tank -- basically a Vindicator that replaces the Demolisher with an Avenger Bolt Cannon -- and tell me how it plays.
evildrcheese wrote: Pah, all of you people who don't embrace the obscene bling that is the organ missile launcher are heretics as far as I'm concerned and should be burnt accordingly.
D
A little bit of putty and plastic or brass tubing you can make your own organ if you want. I did my first that way. Not the best job, but I think it turned out pretty well. I tiled the organ in an attempt to make it look more like a weapon. The Icons are charms from Hobby Lobby.
Rock'n'Roll. A true believer!
Is the Leviathan book work picking solely for the SoB content? Are their any Imperial formations (I.e guard) or is it only Nids rule wise?
D
Only glanced through the managers copy but I am getting a copy for the fluff but there are NO new rules for anything other than Nids - there are a couple of scenarios that allow you to play out some of the described Sisters actions but I did not see any cool rules for the books heavily featured Canoness Magda Grace etc - sadly :(
evildrcheese wrote: Pah, all of you people who don't embrace the obscene bling that is the organ missile launcher are heretics as far as I'm concerned and should be burnt accordingly.
D
A little bit of putty and plastic or brass tubing you can make your own organ if you want. I did my first that way. Not the best job, but I think it turned out pretty well. I tiled the organ in an attempt to make it look more like a weapon. The Icons are charms from Hobby Lobby.
Mavnas wrote: DCAs and Celestine are our way of dealing with normal MEQ squad, but yeah we're missing a high RoF AP3 or better weapon.
With the sheer amount of AP1 that a typical sisters army can field, is a lack of AP3 a problem? 3 Exorcists and 3 Dominions sporting meltas are a fairly common load out. Granted, it is generally overkill putting that much str 8 ap 1 into an MEQ squad, but if you absolutely, positively have to have that unit destroyed overnight....
Mavnas wrote: DCAs and Celestine are our way of dealing with normal MEQ squad, but yeah we're missing a high RoF AP3 or better weapon.
With the sheer amount of AP1 that a typical sisters army can field, is a lack of AP3 a problem? 3 Exorcists and 3 Dominions sporting meltas are a fairly common load out. Granted, it is generally overkill putting that much str 8 ap 1 into an MEQ squad, but if you absolutely, positively have to have that unit destroyed overnight....
Yeah, he's just wrong on this one. We don't need AP3 because we have plenty of AP1.
Went to that BAO Style tournament this weekend. About 20-24 players. Brought my SOB with TWC list. Played 3 Marine players.
First, Imperial Fists with Bikes, Grav Cents, TFC, the FW tall dread, rifleman, Eternal Shield Bike Lord and a knight. Tabled him by turn 3. Full points.
Second, White Scars (Bikes with Melta or Grav, Khan, Sicaran) with Guard (Blob, Yarrick, Wyvern). He conceded on Turn 3. Full points.
Third, Salamanders with Pods (6 pods, 1 command squad, 5 troop pods, LOTD squad, TFC) and Castigator. Game timed out on turn 5 with me getting 8 of 10 points (couldn't kill Vulkan and he got first blood).
I have had similar experiences against power armored lists. Sisters simply decimate them. Most players are not used to the sheer volume of AP1 that is in their face (Dominions) as well as from far away (Exorcists).
I have found drop pod armies to be the most difficult to deal with, but space marines do not scare me.
IMO AP3 RoF weapons are not really something most SoB armies need. There is after all a high RoF AP1 weapon filling most SoBHS slots.
The biggest problem my SoB struggle with is board control. ie a good melee threat so that my army doesn't just collapse to a couple of well placed multi assaults. This is where TWC, Imperial Knights, etc. come in and give you better board control elements.
Another issue can be getting units into position for the alpha strike, for the units other than doms. This is one of the reasons that issodon and SW can be such nice secondary detachments. They let you put units near targets or objectives at the start of the game rather than risk having their AV11 transport blown up and left trying to foot slog where they are needed.
ansacs wrote: The biggest problem my SoB struggle with is board control. ie a good melee threat so that my army doesn't just collapse to a couple of well placed multi assaults. This is where TWC, Imperial Knights, etc. come in and give you better board control elements.
That's why I like my Canoness + Celestian + Priests squad. They do surprisingly well in melee with the 2 priests granting re-rolls to wound and re-rolls to save. The Canoness and Priests have 4+ Invuls and the Canoness and Celestians are still wearing Power Armour. Eviscerators on the Canoness and Priests means armour saves are not a worry either.
That is my problem with SoB melee. It is not that they don't have units that are good in melee. The problem is that their units are a combination of 2 of 3 1) Extremely expensive 2) Slow 3) low durability
Thus they are very hard to use for board control and positional dominance.
The closest I have come to effective SoB no allies board control is a SoB squad of 20 with ICs in it to buff it up. Unfortunately it is just too slow to be effective, it is more like half board control.
I tried the entire repentia hiding behind immos but it slows the entire army down, barrage weapons clear them out incredibly fast, and most serious assault threats have ways to deal with units of 5 repentia (and bigger units struggle even more to stay hidden). The funniest example of how this doesn't work is an imperial knight that angled itself a bit to the side (which is not hard when you get within 18" of the unit), shot the repentia with it's double battlecannon shot which put down ~10 wounds on the repentia and 2 hits on the immolator they were "protecting", the two heavy stubbers helped a bit too. Even GtG with a 5+(4+ after GtG) cover save the repentia dissolved and the immo even lost 2 HP and it's weapon... 100 pts bought me a slight readjustment of a knight paladin's position, the irony being that the knight player was trying to get to an objective anyways and was a bit weary of closing with some many melta direct on like he would have to have to charge that turn.
Now the addition of Issodon, SW drop pods, Imperial Knights, Imperial Assassins (to infiltrate up with your doms scouting), and even a stormraven to carry a repentia unit all have worked well for me. IMO that is the problem with SoB assault, it is slow and fragile...not a good combination.
ansacs wrote: Even GtG with a 5+(4+ after GtG) cover save the repentia dissolved ....
It's actually slightly worse than that: being Fearless, Repentia can't even Go To Ground.
shows how much showtime my repentia have had...I forgot they were fearless. My experiences with repentia is wiped out in a single round of shooting if footslogging or charging an imperial knights out of a stormraven and die from the explosion.
SisterSydney wrote: If your opponents are Forgeworld-friendly, you don't need allies, just an Avenger.
If your opponents are homebrew-friendly, please try my Vindicta tank -- basically a Vindicator that replaces the Demolisher with an Avenger Bolt Cannon -- and tell me how it plays.
I do have an avenger, and if i don't go for the Bastion+Rets combo, it's usually 2 Exos and an Avenger. It works really well for MEQ Cleaning.
Mavnas wrote: DCAs and Celestine are our way of dealing with normal MEQ squad, but yeah we're missing a high RoF AP3 or better weapon.
With the sheer amount of AP1 that a typical sisters army can field, is a lack of AP3 a problem? 3 Exorcists and 3 Dominions sporting meltas are a fairly common load out. Granted, it is generally overkill putting that much str 8 ap 1 into an MEQ squad, but if you absolutely, positively have to have that unit destroyed overnight....
Yeah, he's just wrong on this one. We don't need AP3 because we have plenty of AP1.
Went to that BAO Style tournament this weekend. About 20-24 players. Brought my SOB with TWC list. Played 3 Marine players.
First, Imperial Fists with Bikes, Grav Cents, TFC, the FW tall dread, rifleman, Eternal Shield Bike Lord and a knight. Tabled him by turn 3. Full points.
Second, White Scars (Bikes with Melta or Grav, Khan, Sicaran) with Guard (Blob, Yarrick, Wyvern). He conceded on Turn 3. Full points.
Third, Salamanders with Pods (6 pods, 1 command squad, 5 troop pods, LOTD squad, TFC) and Castigator. Game timed out on turn 5 with me getting 8 of 10 points (couldn't kill Vulkan and he got first blood).
I don't think my lack of AP3 hurt me.
Problem with "full AP1" list i find is price. Indeed, with the amount of melta you list it's not going to be an issue... 3 Exorcists and 3 Dominion Squads. But have you then got enough to deal with Horde lists?
I suppose it's just a list that works, but i usually don't have more than 2 Exos and 1 Dominions Squad (1000-2000 points) because of the main Jacobus blob, MSU Battle sisters, Avenger/Rets etc.
In terms of price, a Unit of 4 Melta-Doms (in necessary Rhino/Immo) is going to cost you more than the Avenger. Now compare their shooting phase on a 10-man marine Squad. For the price of the Unit, one is much stronger v MEQ.
I think Ansacs is right and it's probably down to board control (Scoring BSS v Doms etc) but maybe "full melta" is the way to go... Will play test and come back to this =)
ansacs wrote: The biggest problem my SoB struggle with is board control. ie a good melee threat so that my army doesn't just collapse to a couple of well placed multi assaults. This is where TWC, Imperial Knights, etc. come in and give you better board control elements.
That's why I like my Canoness + Celestian + Priests squad. They do surprisingly well in melee with the 2 priests granting re-rolls to wound and re-rolls to save. The Canoness and Priests have 4+ Invuls and the Canoness and Celestians are still wearing Power Armour. Eviscerators on the Canoness and Priests means armour saves are not a worry either.
Jacobus blob with Celestine & priests rolls over pretty much anything in CC... and with scouting Doms/exo fire, the blob is usually not too high on the target list until it's too late and they're in CC =P
Fully upgraded, it has 7 weapons, but can only fire 4 at full BS.
I think if it had less firepower and slightly more survivability, I would buy one. (Well, that and if I can figure out FW is cool with people once I move out West.)
I've always thought the Avenger Bolt Cannon's profile is the wrong way to go. The plane is meant to be styled as the 40k equivalent of an A-10 right? Which should mean the cannon does some serious damage against Armour. But S6 AP3 shooting against armour is not exactly anything to get excited about... Meanwhile S6 AP3 means death for Infantry - not exactly the kind of target you would be engaging with an Anti-Tank Cannon
Personally I think the ABC should be like this:
Range - 36" (same)
Strength - X (previously 6)
AP - 4 (down from 3)
Heavy 7 (same)
Tankbuster - This weapon always counts as S8 when attacking Buildings, Vehicles or Monstrous Creatures. All other targets are wounded on a To Wound roll of 4.
Now you have a weapon that can put out serious pain on vehicles/MCs, but lessen its effectiveness against stuff that really don't need yet more ways to get slaughtered (ie MEQ).
Also it probably needs an extra HP if it's staying as AV12/10/10.
Mavnas wrote: With the avenger, I would be concerned that it gets a single round before, It's shot down.
Scouting Alpha-Strike Dominions don't get much more than that in most games... Unless you decided to Outflank them, but even then i'd say they are 50/50. At least the flyer needs specialised anti-air.
Mavnas wrote: Fully upgraded, it has 7 weapons, but can only fire 4 at full BS.
How did you get to 7?
Bolt Canon + 2 Las canons + 2 Options and the Heavy stubber at the back. Which is 6 to me?
GoonBandito wrote: Now you have a weapon that can put out serious pain on vehicles/MCs, but lessen its effectiveness against stuff that really don't need yet more ways to get slaughtered (ie MEQ).
Also it probably needs an extra HP if it's staying as AV12/10/10.
Agreed with the +1 HP, and that profile would be pretty cool... If we didn't have that much S8 AP1 Already... The weapon profile as it is is just perfect for me. Sisters don't have Battle Canons to slaughter MEQs...
Technically 8 weapons. Bolt cannon + 2 Las Cannon + 2x 2 pairs + heavy stubber.
If you could keep an AM techpriest close enough to it somehow, and give it PotMS, you could fire the bolt cannon at heavy infantry then put 2 lascannons, and 2 Missle Launcher shots into a vehicle. It would be pretty nice, but that would require some very deft maneuvering. (Or a transport that moves 12" then flat out every turn)
Flyers with 10 side armor don't require specialized anti-air to bring down. I've brought down the AV11/11/11 2HP space marine flyer with just massed heavy bolter fire. At AV10 even a lucky shot from an ordinary bolter could make it sad. A twin-linked auto-cannon has roughly a 4/9ths chance to strip one of the hull points hitting the side. This is my problem with it. It doesn't require dedicated anti-air to bring down and it's only BS3 when shooting at enemy flyers, which can eat it for breakfast. I love its firepower, but it doesn't really add reliable anti-air (which a flyer should do if I take it). I could see it being useful if more were taken, but heavy slots are valuable. I guess maybe in a double CAD situation? Although, at some point spamming exorcists would be scarier for the opponent.
Or stick a tech priest in an Arvus Lighter and follow it? Can a techpriest use its' ability from a transport?
For the 300 pt price tag of 2 avengers, you're better off taking the 400~pts of the Storm Raven and two Storm Talon formation.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Although, my biggest beef with the avenger is the defensive heavy stubber. Its only viable target based on it's location on the plane would be another flyer, and it's not strong enough to hurt any.The only viable situation is when it's firing back at a flyer you just passed and shooting at rear armor, even then you'd need a 6+ at best.
Yeah, a defensive heavy bolter would at least have a chance of hurting more targets though honestly I don't see why you would ever fire it at full BS unless you took 0 upgrades.
One of the nice things to keep in mind is that the Avenger has DS. Thus you can DS it behind or to the side of enemy flyers. With the relatively long range on the lascannons and Bolt cannon can rip up rear AV10 or side armour 11 really well. It also is not very risky as you can DS a fair distance away from anything.
The only use I have found for the defensive stubber is trying to force grounding checks on FMC. It is pretty useless in 7ed though, not terrible in 6ed though.
The avenger is definitely an excellent ground attack aircraft. It is pretty effective at killing most transports as it can almost always get at side and rear armours and the bolt cannon is pretty good against infantry. I just wish that the lascannons could be swapped for autocannons or something.
Revisiting the techpriest idea. If he were on a Vendetta, then the idea doesn't sound as crazy as the useless lighter. Plus the vendetta could potentially block los from random high RoF S4/5 weapons that could hurt the Avenger.
If your looking for a hand to hand type of unit there isn't much better than a mix of crusaders and DCA's backed up by a priest or 2. Frankly the only thing that they really can't deal with is walkers and MC's with toughness of 8+.
Even if you do run into a T8/9/10 MC that thing is going to be so expensive for your enemy that all you really need to do is lock it up in combat with your cheap crusaders 3++ rerollable and ignore it while you go on and win the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I really wish that the repentia and pen engines weren't so specific for application. My pen engines are really only used as slow heavy flamer platforms, and my repentia see a lot of shelf dust.
deviantduck wrote: how could the avengers stubber even see a FMC? the blocks everything on the ground, and the gun points up.
Also it is not uncommon to see a daemon prince or flyrant land on top of buildings last edition so that if they did get grounded they couldn't be assaulted. Admittedly the stubber is pretty pathetic against these.
I've used the heavy stubber on the Avengers (I have 2 and use them often) the grand total of 1 time.
That's how often I had the opportunity to use the stubber because the requirements are pretty steep:
1) no normal targets for the main weapons otherwise I'll be snap-shotting
2) must be an AV10 flyer or T7 or lower FMC 3) must be on a flying stem and elevated enough
4) must be in the arc of fire, which means I just survived being shot in the rear somehow without jinking
5) it's most likely the second turn the Avenger is on the board and it somehow survived!!
So you get 1 option of a pair of something or 6 bombs. The link you've got looks user-made (using numbers like 2,6 when GW / Forgeworld tend to use "two" or "pair")
If anyone with the book could take a quick snapshot (make sure you don't snap the points cost) we could confirm. Although one of the Books has 3HP so......
deviantduck wrote: Although, my biggest beef with the avenger is the defensive heavy stubber. Its only viable target based on it's location on the plane would be another flyer, and it's not strong enough to hurt any.The only viable situation is when it's firing back at a flyer you just passed and shooting at rear armor, even then you'd need a 6+ at best.
ansacs wrote: The only use I have found for the defensive stubber is trying to force grounding checks on FMC. It is pretty useless in 7ed though, not terrible in 6ed though.
The avenger is definitely an excellent ground attack aircraft. It is pretty effective at killing most transports as it can almost always get at side and rear armours and the bolt cannon is pretty good against infantry. I just wish that the lascannons could be swapped for autocannons or something.
The only time my heavy stubber did anything was also 6th Ed. Firing at flying Lord of change (he'd hopped up on top of a bastion) who only had 1 wound left and was hoping flying kept him safe. Stubber shot him down, grounded and killed. Most Epic Avenger kill so far lol!
I also quite like the lascanons for when you target a 10-man marine squad with attached IC. Same the Lascanons for the character because the Avenger bolt canon usually clears his squad. Well that's the kind of use i had for them before...
But i agree that the main point is that the avenger rarely sees Turn 2 on the board... Maybe one of the new IA books to come could cover it? Although i am not hopeful for change: The FW model has a heavy stubber, why would they modify it's equipment and break Wysiwyg?
In addition to bolt cannon, 2x lascannons and stubber.
Had a game against pre heresy Salamanders last night. Ran into a few problems.
1. Lack of anti-air fire. The game looked to be in the bag until his Fire Raptor hit the field. It was a right bloody pain.
2. Lack of AP2 fire. Taking down marines isn't a problem, but I ran into a severe problem against his artificer armoured squads. And this was with 2 Exorcists.
3. The Sisters dependance on melta is crippling. Lack of long range weapons, and/or Strength 9-10 weapons in our armoury is detrimental to the army as a whole. Cassian absolutely destroyed anything he hit, and I didn't have a damn thing that could do anything to him.
But this has made me consider that my Dark Angels or Elysian Drop Troops would probably be better allies then Inquisition. Both have access to AP2 weapons in decent amount/range, have access to lascannons in numbers, and are capable of providing T1 close support via combat drop/ deathwing assault/ infiltrate, allowing time to close, and take advantage of the Sisters inherent short range.
A Sisters army was having trouble with 2+ saves? I'm confused. Was the issue your meltas couldn't get within 6" and your Exorcists couldn't handle all the targets?
Exorcists on average only get 2 hits per turn. Against terminators that translates only into about 1 kill per exorcist per turn.
They're actually worse at killing MEQ in cover than a retributor with heavy bolters squad (even without the rending).
I see Exorcists being the stronger option against enemy vehicles, but they are hardly amazing heavy infantry removers unless you roll well or the opponent rolls badly, and I am an expert at rolling badly.
I think it is a compound problem, it's probably less prevalent against other armies.
1. Cheaper, which means that he has more, and that they represent a smaller total investment of his army. The points system of 30K means that larger squads are used, and can take enormous amounts of special weapons. In 40K, killing 2-3 Terminators removes most of their power. In 30K, it doesn't.
2. The 2+ squads get inv. saves against melta/plasma, which means that 1 in 3 survive. Problematic.
3. Those extra special weapons mean more casualties on my side in the return volley.
4. Melta lacks the shot number to annihilate the squad quickly, and the range to begin casualties quickly, which compounds the above problems.
And of course, the Fire Raptor. But like I said, this problem is probably less prevalent against other armies, although most of the points apply equally to other 30K armies.
Yeah, I don't think 40k and 30k are balanced points-wise.
I've mostly been playing in an escalation league with friends which means low point values and lots of MEQ. The heavy bolters have been my most reliably good unit. Celestine and her seraphim have been hit or miss, but have been really impressive sometimes.
The one squad of melta doms never achieved anything other than absorbing the enemy's fire for the first turn so that the rest of the army could win. What would have been their shining moment was when they got within 12" of an eldar HQ on a jetbike with his T3 3+/4++/rerollable 2+ cover save. They ignored his cover, then proceeded to miss 3 out of 4 shots, and get invuln saved on the last one. This failure to instakill him cost me the game (because the squad died, then Celestine had to go kill the guy which got her killed by Wave Serpents). The eldar game was the only 750pt bracket game I lost.
Thanks for the pic of the book, it is indeed 1 Weapons choice for the Avenger. Plus being limited to the 4 weapons at full BS, it would not make sense to have much more...
Farseer Anath'lan wrote: 1. Cheaper, which means that he has more, and that they represent a smaller total investment of his army. The points system of 30K means that larger squads are used, and can take enormous amounts of special weapons. In 40K, killing 2-3 Terminators removes most of their power. In 30K, it doesn't.
40k V 30k is known to be un-balanced, but as the others: i'd suggest a little more melta or at least Heavy bolter Retributors / Avenger.
Farseer Anath'lan wrote: 2. The 2+ squads get inv. saves against melta/plasma, which means that 1 in 3 survive. Problematic.
So use your Exorcists, no invun. save for them with that. If it's a 10-man artificer Squad, i can see how 1 or even 2 Turns might not cut it though...
Side note: I've had a relatively quick look through the Leviathan book (the one with the Pictures of sisters). They actually do pretty well compared to the other factions (Other planets) against the Nids. It does look promising for the Shield of Baal "Session" in terms of sisters. This book covered the Nids (made them seem bada** and all) which really points towards book 2 covering the "other side", which might be the good news.
Hey, Im thinking of giving sisters ago, I hope you dont mind me asking you for your sisters/ space wolf list?
This is approximate, since I'm on my phone:
Celestine (warlord)
Priest (bare)
5 bss with melta an flamer in repressor
5 bss with melta and flamer in repressor
5 doms with 4 melta in tlmm immo
5 doms with 4 melta in repressor
5 rets with 4 HF and combi
Exorcist
Exorcist
Wolf lord with krakenbone and SS on tw
Iron priest on tw
Iron priest on tw
4? TWC with 2 SS, 1 PF and 1 WC.
Drop pod
So earlier today I managed to get a 1750 game against a local nid player. The nids are getting stronger and stronger. Anyway, here's a rough estimate of what I brought:
- Celestine in a unit of 10 seraphim, 2x hand flamers
- Jacobus in a 20 girl blob of BSS + priest + hereticus inquisitor (psyocculum)
-2x exorcists
-2x melta dominions, immolator h-flamers
-2x BSS flamer/heavy flamer in melta imolators
-1 BSS flamer/flamer in rhino (had extra points)
The point of the list was that I only wanted to use painted figs that were based.
Anyway, I don't know names, but he brought something like:
-2x tyrants with shooty stuff and wings
-1x baby-momma and a massive brood of little ones, and gave birth on the field to more (yea.... burn them all)
-1 monster with an assult gun that could template, or fire 6 shots then charge.
-1 MC with an anti tank gun (s10)
-3 hive guards with high st guns
-2 venomthropes to provide cover.
-1 gargoyle
so the game was odd. I won by objective control, but the strange thing was that I really had a hard time killing his MCs. i'm thinking about options on how to bolster my defense against MC type things and have come up with:
-3rd exorcist. (gotta get it painted)
-the larger sisters blobs. They did fairly well, taking out a hive tyrant and beating up the gargoyle pretty badly.
-GK allies (nah, but its an option)
-hereticus inquisitor with either a force hammer or a null rod
-mallus inquisitor with a nemesis force hammer
-crusaders and priests to hold as many in place as possible and kill everything else.
Am I missing an option? I seem to be seeing more and more MC's showing up and I would like to fill the apparent hole in my list if possible.
Can you explain more about how you had a hard time killing MCs? Cover saves? Flying? I never have a problem with Nid MCs for much the same reason I don't have a problem with TDA.
pretre wrote: Can you explain more about how you had a hard time killing MCs? Cover saves? Flying? I never have a problem with Nid MCs for much the same reason I don't have a problem with TDA.
As a Nid player, I can say that it was probably cover saves. Between BLOS cover, Venomthropes and screening units, it's rare for my MCs to have less than a 5+ cover save.
The best thing to do when facing nids, target their mal/venom-thropes first, 1 failed cover save and their instantly killed. Then go for their ground synapse/ MC, after that it's whatever's left on the board.
Looks like War's list is pretty heavy on flamers and light on melta, compared to others I've seen here. That would be have awesome against little 'nids but I can see how he struggled with the big tough fethers. The normal Sisters melta-fest loses some of its edge against monsters (penetration bonuses don't matter vs MCs) but S:8 AP:1 still bites.
PS: I'm working up homebrew Sororitas infilatrators with the option to take four meltaguns and Monster Hunters, which might be helpful in such situations -- comments welcome as I revise.
A couple of clarifications. First of all my dom's generally do a quick first turn attack designed to damage priority targets. Sure, nothing new there. What was odd was In this game, between the two units they couldn't even manage a single wound due to either whiffing, or poor wounding. One of them even managed to fail their act of faith roll. I link that to simple poor luck as they are generally very good.
My exorcists did all right, but just picked off little bits each round of shooting.
My list itself was atypical. Usually my tourney build is slightly different, I bring a third exorcist and a third unit of melta dominions. Didn't bring that, but I don't see that as a crippling blow to the list. I was just surprised at the tenacity of the nids. The combination of the cover saves and the high toughness was rather rough. Combine that with the lethality of any of the MC's in close combat makes for a rough puzzle to solve.
Automatically Appended Next Post: One other thing. I was forcing myself to play the scenario and grab objectives (using the cards etc.). As a result I had to force my priorities to be troop choices sometimes to clear objectives and obj secure them with my troops.
I have been having a lot of success with this type of list.
Sisters
Saint Celestine with seraphim squad and two hand flamers
Two 5 man sister squads with two melta guns in rhinos
exorcist
Priest with mandatory relic of faith
10 man squad of Repentia
Space wolves
Wolf guard battle leader storm shield and artificer armor
Rune Priest level 2, artificer armor
Storm wolf
2x Sicarians with Heavy Bolters
10 man Grey Hunter unit with 2 melta guns and standard - Rhino
7 man unit of Grey Hunters with a flamer and a Rhino
I've had a lot of fun in my local meta with Repentia. One day they shredded some Grav-Centurions (about 5 died to overwatch), another day was a full-HP Riptide that went down.
After that they were amazing at board denial simply chillin' in a Rhino. Rhino parked behind a Bastion or other LoS blockage and no one ever came close.... Rather pointless as they did nothing and got nothing, but no enemy got close lol.
They are fun. No doubt. Just not good. I'm assuming he puts the priest and the WGBL with the repentia. Use the WGBL to soak wounds on the charge and then shred something.
pretre wrote: They are fun. No doubt. Just not good. I'm assuming he puts the priest and the WGBL with the repentia. Use the WGBL to soak wounds on the charge and then shred something.
Yeah, they go with the WGBL and tear up what ever it needs to die. They usually blow up any big unit and then I can focus on something else.
Also if you charge Centurions they shouldn't fire back at you in Over watch because of slow and purposeful.
The problem with adding the WGBL to the unit is they lose the FNP. He pretty much has to tank everything until I1. Though, I suppose with 2+/3++ reroll able you could hurt not super melee focused enemies.
Darkwynn wrote: Also if you charge Centurions they shouldn't fire back at you in Over watch because of slow and purposeful.
Holy crap, how have I missed that? I've gotten overwatched so many times.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mavnas wrote: The problem with adding the WGBL to the unit is they lose the FNP. He pretty much has to tank everything until I1. Though, I suppose with 2+/3++ reroll able you could hurt not super melee focused enemies.
That's a good point. No Faith if he's in the unit.
So two thoughts on making repententia work. Iron priests could be added with up to 4 cyberwolves a piece. You lose the ability to embark, but gain T4 4+ meat shields.
Alternatively adding a Dark Angels guy who can give the unit 4++ all the time, rerollable in melee with the priest is better than FNP.
Mavnas wrote: So two thoughts on making repententia work. Iron priests could be added with up to 4 cyberwolves a piece. You lose the ability to embark, but gain T4 4+ meat shields.
Alternatively adding a Dark Angels guy who can give the unit 4++ all the time, rerollable in melee with the priest is better than FNP.
I think you're adding too much when you could just take a different unit and do better.
Yeah, personally I think DCA +inquisitor are more useful since scouting a Landraider forward with your dominions is going to make the enemy think twice about counter attacking them. I need to paint a bunch more models before I can test this theory. The added benefit is you can toss in a cheap 10 point psyker to shriek or a mystic to bring in Celestine without scatter.
Petre, I'm building your BAO list for LVO, and my bro and i were debating it, specifically the drop pod rets. Can't the flame rets be points better used elsewhere? Do they get their points back for you? They seem like there's no way they could get 165 points back.
Also, have played against any lists with a flyer or FMC with it?
I played against Flyers and largely ignored them. FMC I did not play against. I'd ground and charge, if possible. Since they have to spend a turn down to charge me, my mobility helps.
The rets were great even though they failed every faith check. They got me first blood in the first game against devs and sucked up a bunch of fire. Put 50-60 wounds on a guard blob over two turns killing Yarrick and Khan in the second game. Third game they contested a home objective and delayed/distracted Vulkan and his boys.
I would think that a drop pod full of heavy flamer rets would make it hard for the enemy to bunch up their people in cover, creating opportunities for exorcists and other low AP units. Alternatively, your opponent can see if he is good at rolling lots of saves.
I'm also really torn on the second Iron Priest on a mount with the group or sit him back with 3 servitors with the exorcists, and use the other 20pts for upgrades for the other wolves. It gives you a good backfield assault unit on a point, and keeps the exorcists alive an relevant the whole game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think sisters are top 3rd without pods. So definitely.
Mavnas wrote: I think Sisters would be top tier if they had pods as dedicated transports.
That's the good part of allied SW.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
deviantduck wrote: I'm also really torn on the second Iron Priest on a mount with the group or sit him back with 3 servitors with the exorcists, and use the other 20pts for upgrades for the other wolves. It gives you a good backfield assault unit on a point, and keeps the exorcists alive an relevant the whole game.
I think sisters are top 3rd without pods. So definitely.
The second iron priest gives you anti-knight capability if you run into a group of them that you can't take down with the doms/exos. People don't usually worry about the exorcists when there's that much in their face turn 1.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sisters also work very well in the meta with ignores cover melta and lots of S8. Elite armies hate them. We can also make it hard for Knights to shield our shots since you can split into multiple arcs pretty easy with Doms and Exos.
There's 6 of us going from our FLGS in St Louis to LVO, so the TO is running a 6 week league using the LVO rules for us. This thursday will be my first game using the list. I finally got my 4 repressors tabletop acceptable/ready.
Also, the beards and braids on the space wolves make great pony tails on sister's heads.
Darkwynn wrote: Also if you charge Centurions they shouldn't fire back at you in Over watch because of slow and purposeful.
Holy crap, how have I missed that? I've gotten over watched so many times.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mavnas wrote: The problem with adding the WGBL to the unit is they lose the FNP. He pretty much has to tank everything until I1. Though, I suppose with 2+/3++ reroll able you could hurt not super melee focused enemies.
That's a good point. No Faith if he's in the unit.
You don't care about faith at that point. There are other ways to do it, if you are at the LVO come by and check it out. I do this to add a lot of flexibility in the list. Majority of the time, they come out unhurt depending on what I am attacking. The other thing to consider is the cost of the unit is very cheap overall. Your 10 man Repentia squad compared to a 5 man terminator squad is a big difference.
Also Pretre how could use miss that Slow and purposeful can't overwatch?
I knew slow and purposeful couldn't over watch but didn't know cents had that instead of relentless. Prob two or three games where that would have stopped over watch.
I just cant bring myself to put anything but marines in drop pods. its only for fluff reasons, but I always imaged anything but marines being gelled by the impact.
"The enemy has Grav-Guns, Sisters! Beware, I can feel my rags... fluttering....well, slightly.... um.... I think. Yeah, definitely, right there on my left shoulder. Hmm, kinda feels good, that shoulder gets real sore holding the Eviscerator up....."
idk, they almost always have hurricane bolters and they cut through repentia pretty nicely.
I think that for my repentia to get much table time they need to be cheaper. I love to play the crazies, but i'm always so sad when they die off before they get to do anything.
I found some exorcist parts in a FLGS bits bin recently and decided to start building another one. I had to cast a lot of the pieces I didn't have in resin, and plate pieces of the rhino in Plexiglas to make it work right, but I think that its coming along all right. I've been looking around at craft stores for 2 or 3 mm fleur de lis, but thus far I have been unable to find anything that is small enough to work. Anyway, what do you think?
Automatically Appended Next Post: the only part that is metal on this figure is the organ and the front plate. The rhino was just a stripped and horribly painted chassee without doors/lighs/top pieces ect.
I think the worst part of it was trying to get that top piece cast, then the extra resin shaved off of it. When you use resin it makes a solid chunk and the part really needs to be hollow to fit on top of the rhino. That said, I will NOT pay GW for a full immolator just to get that plastic piece. Its good to find work arounds.
Automatically Appended Next Post: oh, one last thing on it. I didn't wire this one up to have working headlights (I do that with my immolators). I didn't have a good way of making it fit on the figure, so this one won't need batteries.
Oberron wrote: Hey I heard that sisters use to have a dreadnot long time ago from WD i wanna say. Is that true?
Reference to the penitent Engine maybe? Can't think of any other Dreadnaught apart from Witchhunter days and the multiple allies?
war wrote: I found some exorcist parts in a FLGS bits bin recently and decided to start building another one. I had to cast a lot of the pieces I didn't have in resin, and plate pieces of the rhino in Plexiglas to make it work right, but I think that its coming along all right. I've been looking around at craft stores for 2 or 3 mm fleur de lis, but thus far I have been unable to find anything that is small enough to work. Anyway, what do you think?
Automatically Appended Next Post: the only part that is metal on this figure is the organ and the front plate. The rhino was just a stripped and horribly painted chassee without doors/lighs/top pieces ect.
I think the worst part of it was trying to get that top piece cast, then the extra resin shaved off of it. When you use resin it makes a solid chunk and the part really needs to be hollow to fit on top of the rhino. That said, I will NOT pay GW for a full immolator just to get that plastic piece. Its good to find work arounds.
Automatically Appended Next Post: oh, one last thing on it. I didn't wire this one up to have working headlights (I do that with my immolators). I didn't have a good way of making it fit on the figure, so this one won't need batteries.
Very nice Exo, but i have to say i'm not a big fan of the Organ Gun. Only the sister on the piano at the from is what makes it for me, pity you didn't find just that part =P
Very nice Exo, but i have to say i'm not a big fan of the Organ Gun. Only the sister on the piano at the from is what makes it for me, pity you didn't find just that part =P
The reason that I was able to cast the pieces in resin is that I have another model on my shelf that I haven't started yet. I'm debating casting the organ player.... lots of small parts and I have an extra immolator part that would work all right anyway. I may just look at it when its done and see if I like what I see.
Didn't somebody convert an Exorcist variant once where the organ pipes pointed forward at an angle, kind of like a MLRS or Katyusha multi-barreled rocket launcher? Or did I just wish for that so hard I believed it was real?
SisterSydney wrote: Didn't somebody convert an Exorcist variant once where the organ pipes pointed forward at an angle, kind of like a MLRS or Katyusha multi-barreled rocket launcher?
Actually, can you hide the exorcist so that only its pipes are showing to get LoS while not exposing yourself to fire, or does the barrel of your gun count as one of the bits which can be shot at.
A little bit of putty and plastic or brass tubing you can make your own organ if you want. I did my first that way. Not the best job, but I think it turned out pretty well. I tiled the organ in an attempt to make it look more like a weapon. The Icons are charms from Hobby Lobby.
Yes, it's harder to argue it's got 360 field of fire with that arrangement, but it's such a beautiful balance of Insane 40K Bling-o-War and an actual practicable weapons system.
Morden that is a gorgeous army, I'm quite jealous. I like the exorcist pipes forward too, I think both SQRT and Morden have awesome conversions for that. No a fan of the organ look so this is a great middle ground.
As for rules, I think that the rulebook states you have to be able to see the hull to fire at a vehicle. Please correct me if I'm wrong. At the very worst you'll definitely get a cover save. I'm not a competitive player, just a beers in the basement type of player so using the pipes height for an advantage to shoot over things without the possibility of getting shot back it seems kind of... munchkinny? Personally I would either say I can't shoot over what atleast a part of my hull can see over (just so I can get shot at) or that if I'm going to play being able to shoot over things then my opponent can shoot me back. I play for fun, not to win. Unless I'm fielding my Eldar force, then winning just seems to happen whether I want it to or not. I don't even run wave serpents or wraithknights...
It's using defilade fire and perfectly legal. It's not any munchkinnier than half the units in the game that can shoot and run. It is a bit harder to pull off though, and usually sparks the argument of where do the pipes (weapon barrels) end and the turret begins.
It does seem cheap as a tactic in a friendly game, but if I ever fight 6+ wave serpents, I wouldn't hesitate. Then again hiding AV13 from them just means they'd kill the squishier stuff first.
deviantduck wrote: It's using defilade fire and perfectly legal. It's not any munchkinnier than half the units in the game that can shoot and run. It is a bit harder to pull off though, and usually sparks the argument of where do the pipes (weapon barrels) end and the turret begins.
Pardon my ignorance but I can't say that I've heard this term "defilade". Can you elaborate please? I don't argue the point that it is legal and I certainly think in competitive games or tournaments if it's legal then use it (or depending on your local meta and group playstyles). I was just saying that personally in my friendly games I wouldn't play it that way. As it stands I do run 1 squad of windrider jetbikes and yeah, moving in the assault phase like that makes me feel so dirty, its not...natural. The only thing I keep telling myself about that is that they have a 12" range and without that movement they would pretty much be guaranteed to get assaulted every game.
Off topic kinda but is there any chance of this new codex getting a physical copy? Love the look of the sisters but I hate the idea of digital codices...
All those who love the Emperor are hoping for a physical copy, but I have heard nothing of it actually happening yet. (note: saying you don't want one WOULD label you as a heretic. Just saying)
If GW had actually put effort into putting artwork in the 7th edition codexes I'd be more excited for a physical SoB codex. I have the DE one and there's a ton of recycled older work (which is still good stuff) Then there are all the different pages explaining the wych cults and kabalite stuff, for those they just recycled the same 4 pictures with re-colours. That was a huge disappointment, then the unit entries are all photos of the models, as if I won't spend enough time looking at those already. I believe the ork codex did the same thing. All in all it led to a very artistically boring book, which is real sad cause GW artwork is some of the best art around for the subject matter and chief amongst that is the SoB artwork. Man I still drool when I think of how cool that one SoB looked on one of the 40kRPG books. I'll try to find a link, such potential! I'd be thrilled to get a physical SoB codex but it sucks cause I know GW has the talent on board to make it an epic dex all around but I feel looking at the current 7th edition dexes it won't be the sacred tome I was hoping for (artistically anyways, hopefully fluff is good in it too and not just "oh they sacrificed themselves for the emperor...again")
Automatically Appended Next Post: Found it! It's the cover to the "Inquisitor's handbook" in the 40K Dark Heresy RPG, glorious helmeted sister there. Looking at others that whole Dark Heresy line has amazing SoB artwork.
Sorry my tech-fu skills suck and so linking pics or embedding er whatever is just seeming way harder than I care to work for right now lol.
Inevitable_Faith wrote: using the pipes height for an advantage to shoot over things without the possibility of getting shot back it seems kind of... munchkinny?
For some reason i just had a thought reading this "exploit" again:
Is the Exorcist not supposed to be long-range artillery for the Sisters? Would your mortar teams set up at the top of a hill where everyone could see them?
I like the fluff aspect i have literally just though of: Being Artillery, Exorcists would set up behind a lot of cover, hidden out of sight of the enemy, and then lay down a barrage of supporting fire arcing over from the vertical barrels.
Even Whirlwinds have the Barrage rule. Why can't we hide and fire over the top (It's all legal per Rules anyway =P )
Rulebook wrote:"If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Template type, resolve each shot, one at a time, as described above, determining and recording how many hits are scored by each template. Once the number of hits from all templates has been determined, roll To Wound as normal."
News flash: from YMDC
I knew we had talked about firing Flamer / Heavy Flamer Squads but have we all carefully read the "multiple templates" Rule? Copied above.
It seems both would be fired together, so no need to worry/choose which to fire first, they go together
Personally I don't think we'll see a physical copy of the current Codex, although I'm optimistic that we may one day see a new Codex release physically with some new models... fingers crossed.
Andilus Greatsword wrote: Personally I don't think we'll see a physical copy of the current Codex, although I'm optimistic that we may one day see a new Codex release physically with some new models... fingers crossed.
If the new Leviathan book is anything to go by, i agree on that one. They've pretty much done "one planet per army" kinda theme and the Adepta Sororitas did get some spotlight. New pictures and all...
Story Spoiler below
Spoiler:
They are pretty much the only ones from the book that withstand the Tyranids and let the Transport ships escape.
Most of the other planets are just utterly destroyed lol
Blacktalos: You're absolutely right, given the way the exorcist organ pipes would fire, straight up that is, and the barrage rule would make sense if barrage would apply to weapons that don't use a blast template. Honestly the fact that the exorcist doesn't fire a blast marker is, I believe, the only reason it doesn't have the barrage rule. Fluffwise I agree it should be an unseen barrage from the heavens.
I picture this: A combat patrol of the enemy marching through a ruined city, searching for imperial citizens to slaughter. Suddenly they are halted by a strange noise. The commander calls for a halt and as the other sounds silence all that can be heard is a song on the wind. It's an imperial song, played on what sounds like an organ. It rises in volume and tempo. Suddenly a new sound,or instrument perhaps, joins the song. It's a pipe instrument maybe? It seems to make a whistling sound, then suddenly the realization dawns on the enemy that the whistling is no instrument, it's a barrage of incoming exorcist missiles adding their tune to the organs music. It's too late, the missiles strike true and the enemy is decimated, the Sororitas then march their squad through purging the alien with their holy flamers to cleanse the streets of this once great imperial city.
Anyways my point is fluffwise yes it should have barrage, but since it doesn't we have to direct fire it. I don't judge people who use it either way, either shooting over terrain or with your hull showing. I was simply explaining how I would play it in my basement games. If I were to play competitively then I would play RaW. Never gunna say the way you or many other players play is wrong cause it's not. In fact you're right on how this plays and the way I play it is wrong lol.
I like the TLOS stuff too, We seldom play without having others around to help act as judges and were very kool with rolling dice if it's ever in question. I'd say TLOS has made our gaming nights more fun if anything.
Also haven't run into anything that made TLOS difficult to be honest, for the models we play and everything it's seldom come into question of what can see and what cant. SisterSydney could you explain why it is you don't like it? Sorry if you don't feel like explaining, don't feel obligated to I'm just curious as to anothers point of view
Rulebook wrote:"If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Template type, resolve each shot, one at a time, as described above, determining and recording how many hits are scored by each template. Once the number of hits from all templates has been determined, roll To Wound as normal."
News flash: from YMDC
I knew we had talked about firing Flamer / Heavy Flamer Squads but have we all carefully read the "multiple templates" Rule? Copied above.
It seems both would be fired together, so no need to worry/choose which to fire first, they go together
This what I always thought it said and I never got the fuss about it
Inevitable_Faith wrote: I like the TLOS stuff too, We seldom play without having others around to help act as judges and were very kool with rolling dice if it's ever in question. I'd say TLOS has made our gaming nights more fun if anything.
Also haven't run into anything that made TLOS difficult to be honest, for the models we play and everything it's seldom come into question of what can see and what cant. SisterSydney could you explain why it is you don't like it? Sorry if you don't feel like explaining, don't feel obligated to I'm just curious as to anothers point of view
Because I dread contorting myself to see something from a model's-eye view only to end up with a Dark Eldar lodged in my ear....
Rulebook wrote:"If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Template type, resolve each shot, one at a time, as described above, determining and recording how many hits are scored by each template. Once the number of hits from all templates has been determined, roll To Wound as normal."
News flash: from YMDC
I knew we had talked about firing Flamer / Heavy Flamer Squads but have we all carefully read the "multiple templates" Rule? Copied above.
It seems both would be fired together, so no need to worry/choose which to fire first, they go together
This what I always thought it said and I never got the fuss about it
Yeah, and nowhere in that rule does it give the unit the permission to fire differently named weapons together meaning a F/HF weapon is never firing more than one template at a time. 4 HF rets or dual Hand Flamer Seraphim though would benefit from this rule though. I do not think this argument will be resolved until an FAQ is answered on the topic.
it is, because in the case of the rets I wouldn't need the entire rule at all to play it that way! I would have done it with the general rule. The fact that it is discussed seperately vows for the argument of resolving it at the same time
it says that if a unit is firing multiple Template TYPE weapons (e.g. F/HF) then you resolve all hits first, it specifically says ALL templates. So that includes templates with different weapon names.
Inevitable_Faith wrote: I like the TLOS stuff too, We seldom play without having others around to help act as judges and were very kool with rolling dice if it's ever in question. I'd say TLOS has made our gaming nights more fun if anything.
Also haven't run into anything that made TLOS difficult to be honest, for the models we play and everything it's seldom come into question of what can see and what cant. SisterSydney could you explain why it is you don't like it? Sorry if you don't feel like explaining, don't feel obligated to I'm just curious as to anothers point of view
Because I dread contorting myself to see something from a model's-eye view only to end up with a Dark Eldar lodged in my ear....
Lol, ok that just made my day SisterSydney! Sounds to me like you need a laser pointer. Added perk is that when your opponent is trying to crouch down for TLoS checks you can shine the laser in their eyes. When they ask you to stop just tell them you can't you have to paint the target for orbital bombardment. The ordo Malleus has called for exterminatus in the "eye" of terror.
Rulebook wrote:"If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Template type, resolve each shot, one at a time, as described above, determining and recording how many hits are scored by each template. Once the number of hits from all templates has been determined, roll To Wound as normal."
News flash: from YMDC
I knew we had talked about firing Flamer / Heavy Flamer Squads but have we all carefully read the "multiple templates" Rule? Copied above.
It seems both would be fired together, so no need to worry/choose which to fire first, they go together
Perhaps in this case we use the "Specific supersedes the generic ruling? The generic rule is that weapons of different names fire separately but the specific rule is that weapons with the template type fire at the same time to calculate hits prior to rolling to wound. In this case the specific template rule supersedes the generic weapons with different names rule.
But the rule doesn't say anything about allowing you to change the order of firing, all it does is tell you that each template must be placed individually (unlike other shooting attacks where you don't stare down the barrel of each gun and determine which enemies are in LoS, get cover from that specific shooter, etc.)
I think people are reading too much into the line from the template section.
I think as a programmer, I see the shooting phase as involving a number of nested loops. The line from the template section affects how you resolve the inside of the things you do once you have chosen a unit and chosen a weapon to fire rather than completely disrupting the whole structure the unit's firing sequence.
Like I said, until there is an FAQ it is pointless to argue about it because it's one of those things where everyone involved knows all the rules and have chosen to interpret them a certain way. You can't break that deadlock without new input from GW. This is not one of those YMDC topics where there's some obscure rule elsewhere that clears things up, which people just haven't found yet.
Versed Guard. Went expecting horde, but found the guy had borrowed 6 tanks, so was a little light on melta, but managed to go 6-8. There was some shifty goings on with rolling, and rules that I let slide.
Favorite moments was my guided Ret squad blowing his Vendetta out of the sky in a single volley (don't care how badly you want to kill the Penitent, don't show them your rear arc), and my Penitent rolling 3 Invuls to survive on a single hull point to charge his tank command squadron. Reaction to that was priceless. 'What? You can allocate hits to any tank in the squadron? WTH!', wrecking all of them, and my lone superior passing 6 armour saves to plant a melta bomb on a plasma Leman Russ to save her comrades.
All in all, one of the most tense, wire-tight games I've played in a long time.
Gotta say that I'd really like to run my sisters and Blood angels together. If I run the angels as an allied detachment won't I only have access to one drop pod? Since there would be one FA slot filled with a Drop pod. One drop pod would be fine I suppose.
Also, I finished up episode 3 of the saga of Sister Kathryn. The Sisters lead a strike against an Imperial Guard harboring a corrupt Inquisitor.
Mavnas wrote: I think as a programmer, I see the shooting phase as involving a number of nested loops. The line from the template section affects how you resolve the inside of the things you do once you have chosen a unit and chosen a weapon to fire rather than completely disrupting the whole structure the unit's firing sequence.
For the flamer stuff, above is exactly how i used to see it before... but reading and re-reading that "Multiple Templates" Rule is creating many many doubts...
I'd suggest discussion of it in the YMDC thread (which is why i posted the link) and thought it was pretty much "resolved already" when i posted. Seems like that is no longer the case...
I posted there around the time 7th came out and the discussion is still going. Best approach IMO is to just agree with the opponent beforehand and go with one interpretation.
I'm looking forward to my Acheron Knight at Christmas and its synergy with an AS force.
I mean, it was the Knight to get: Massive Flamer of Doom + Heavy bolter. All it's missing is a pintle-mounted Multi-melta and the Holy Trinity is complete.
Yeah, I just ordered an Acheron. I figure, I can use exorcists and Melta to pop open transports and the flamer to clean up. Of course, at the speed I paint, I will let you guys know how it works out sometime in 2016...
Also, my other figures are based on "snow" so I kind of want to make the knight with the giant flamers stand in a big puddle.
Mythantor wrote: Just wanted to open a new topic for the new codex.
My first thoughts?
Priests are now insanely good.
Simulcra are now an auto include.
Only 1 relic per character so no stacking up "Reroll failed saves" with "Eternal Warrior"
I want to hear the thoughts of the veteran Dakkanauts
I havent played since 5th where the Codex was White Dwarf......Where are the SOB rules located now?
Had a read through the rules, have you read the Acheron rules? (HERE)
You can pretty much use the exact same rules for the "Knight Angelus"
I mean, a Jump Pack exhaust, would it no be Hellstorm-shaped rather than simply a Large Blast?
You'd have to factor the "Jump" points cost, but the Pillar of Fire is actually much worse than what the Acheron has, so i'd say they cancel out (plus Acheron has Flank Speed) for the 2 Knights being the same price.
Fair point. But a lot of the Angelus's price is to reflect that it's a deep-striking Knight that crunches what it lands on instead of mishapping.... I might want to rebuild it based on the Acheron instead of the Paladin, though. Thanks.
Mr Morden wrote: Looks like the Sororitas still in the 2nd book - but of course get SFA whilst the Necrons and Blood Angels get more new stuff............
The "18 Datasheets (...) Cryptan Alliance" might have something for the Adepta Sororitas force that survived? (false hope)
I mean, exterminatus is our field too right? Or was that only when we had our Inquisitors during the Witch Hunters Codex?
Well....I have a Sisters army, a BA army, and was a little excited about the possibility of drop podding Dominions or Heavy flamer Retributor squads with my Battle Brothers...if I am not mistaken, this is a tactic thread and now this seems like a viable tactic to share with fellow Sororitas players... Is that a sufficient answer for you?
We've been able to 'Pod Sisters since C:SW. Fairly viable method of deployment, though (as always with any drop pod deployment), often best used for taking out as many high-value targets as possible before the inevitable counter-shooting.
Yes, a second way to get drop pods is good. And honestly, I think the jump pack happy BA might be a better fit for us than the SW. At the very least Celestine gets more options for an escort, especially if one of those comes with a way to deep strike without scatter.
At one point, long ago, White Dwarf published a "Dominica-pattern drop pod" for Sisters -- Clockwork Zion homebrewed an updated 6E or 7E version, I'll try to find the link. Is there an argument against Sisters having their own drop pods?
SisterSydney wrote: At one point, long ago, White Dwarf published a "Dominica-pattern drop pod" for Sisters -- Clockwork Zion homebrewed an updated 6E or 7E version, I'll try to find the link. Is there an argument against Sisters having their own drop pods?
Dying on impact maybe, but other than that... well, I guess it'd be beating a dead horse to say that Sisters need a real Codex update and model line revamp.
It was Citadel Journal, not White Dwarf, but yes they had drop pods in 3rd edition. Unfortunately, CJ was where FW is today. Some people allow it, some don't.
The whole 'non-Marines would get jelloed if they used drop pods' thing makes no sense to me. Either it hits the ground hard enough that there should be rolls to wound, or it doesn't, and anyone can use them.
Paimon wrote: The whole 'non-Marines would get jelloed if they used drop pods' thing makes no sense to me. Either it hits the ground hard enough that there should be rolls to wound, or it doesn't, and anyone can use them.
Yeah, I imagine the space saved by not having to carry marines would allow for more padding, re-entry systems.
Paimon wrote: The whole 'non-Marines would get jelloed if they used drop pods' thing makes no sense to me. Either it hits the ground hard enough that there should be rolls to wound, or it doesn't, and anyone can use them.
Yeah, I imagine the space saved by not having to carry marines would allow for more padding, re-entry systems.
Not only that, but fluff-wise.
A human skin cell is a human skin cell.
I know Marines are supposed to have more organs / faster clot rates / poison immunity, etc, but it says nothing about simple cell biology.
If a Marine finger is not jello on landing, why would a normal human finger be?
I'd love to see someone find some fluff about how Space Marine fingers are augmented... maybe even toes? :p
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SisterSydney wrote: At one point, long ago, White Dwarf published a "Dominica-pattern drop pod" for Sisters -- Clockwork Zion homebrewed an updated 6E or 7E version, I'll try to find the link. Is there an argument against Sisters having their own drop pods?
Mavnas wrote: Yes, a second way to get drop pods is good. And honestly, I think the jump pack happy BA might be a better fit for us than the SW. At the very least Celestine gets more options for an escort, especially if one of those comes with a way to deep strike without scatter.
Yeah, but you can use C:SW (or any Codex for that matter) to homebrew your own local Chapter that doesn't have the history with the Sisters that the SW do. Just pointing out that the BA having DT/FA pods doesn't actually bring anything new to the table.
Mavnas wrote: Yes, a second way to get drop pods is good. And honestly, I think the jump pack happy BA might be a better fit for us than the SW. At the very least Celestine gets more options for an escort, especially if one of those comes with a way to deep strike without scatter.
Yeah, but you can use C:SW (or any Codex for that matter) to homebrew your own local Chapter that doesn't have the history with the Sisters that the SW do. Just pointing out that the BA having DT/FA pods doesn't actually bring anything new to the table.
Also the Sisters / Wolves issues are pretty recent in 40k history IIRC
Mavnas wrote: Yes, a second way to get drop pods is good. And honestly, I think the jump pack happy BA might be a better fit for us than the SW. At the very least Celestine gets more options for an escort, especially if one of those comes with a way to deep strike without scatter.
Yeah, but you can use C:SW (or any Codex for that matter) to homebrew your own local Chapter that doesn't have the history with the Sisters that the SW do. Just pointing out that the BA having DT/FA pods doesn't actually bring anything new to the table.
Elite jump troops
SW have TWC but it competes for slots with the pods. SW have nice things the BA don't have, but it's not nothing. When putting multiple SoB squads, I'd like the tax I pay for those pods to buy me things that synergise with the pod assault. Also good jump troops mean I can drop the Seraphim for a third Doms squad.
The other interesting bit on the same page is that some bright spark is sending Seth to rescue the surviving Sisters - yeah that will go well............
but at least its something - despite them not bothering to put any specific rules in.
Well, Sisters have had a presence in both books so far. 'Nids got a bunch of great new releases leading into this, Blood Angels got their Codex, and Necron seem to be next.
Its not impossible to suggest a Sisters Codex shows up before this series ends?
The other interesting bit on the same page is that some bright spark is sending Seth to rescue the surviving Sisters - yeah that will go well............
but at least its something - despite them not bothering to put any specific rules in.
Ah yes, i knew you uploaded the first one, and for some reason i saw that one as the same... Sorry for the double post.
Personally it at least means they're not scrapping (Unless it's the last big push with Extinction event at the end) lol
The other interesting bit on the same page is that some bright spark is sending Seth to rescue the surviving Sisters - yeah that will go well............
but at least its something - despite them not bothering to put any specific rules in.
Ah yes, i knew you uploaded the first one, and for some reason i saw that one as the same... Sorry for the double post.
Personally it at least means they're not scrapping (Unless it's the last big push with Extinction event at the end) lol
Well its not like the entire Militant Order is involved - so that's not going to happen in that way.
I'm guessing you don't have the Leviathan Book? Goes into much more details about the quick resume you just posted. Pretty good book for epic Sisters Fluff.
Where the above reads "their defenders broken and scattered before the alien swarms". I've got " The Adepta Sororitas had saved more of the planet's people than Grace had dared to hope, though it had cost them dearly."
They are pretty much the only planet to even HAVE evac ships lol, Go sisters!! (Still need to read all of it to confirm that...)
I'm guessing you don't have the Leviathan Book? Goes into much more details about the quick resume you just posted. Pretty good book for epic Sisters Fluff.
Where the above reads "their defenders broken and scattered before the alien swarms". I've got " The Adepta Sororitas had saved more of the planet's people than Grace had dared to hope, though it had cost them dearly."
They are pretty much the only planet to even HAVE evac ships lol, Go sisters!! (Still need to read all of it to confirm that...)
I have book one - the page I posted was from book 2? Agreed the Sisters are suprising well represented - two of the scenarios are even Sororitas specific and yeah they kick major ass - just hoping Seth is there to helpo them not butcher - the bits leaked from bk 2 so far imply the former which is nice change
Just finished it - its a good read - the Sororitas are portrayed well in battle and achieve a Phyric victory which is more than anyone else does!
Some snippets
Spoiler:
"When the Order of the Sacred Rose brought the light of the Emperor to Lysios in M41 they found that the populace still clung to their stange myths.....The Adepta Sororitas intended to see that belief expunged and were prepared to implement severe religious persecution to accomplish it. One way or another, the Emperor would be given his due...."
Lysios, Civilsed world, pop >300,000,000, Exactus Seconus,
"When the bio-ships of Hive Fleet Leviathan pushed their way through the Glittering Shield (wierd asteroid belt), a large contingent of Adepta Sororitas had already begun their religious pograms. They had mobilised just udner seven thousand Battle Sisters from the Orders of the Sacred Rose and Our Martyred Lady and ensured their optiimum deployment througout the system.
Magda Grace
Cannoness, fought for 83 years, fought the Trynaids before and defeated them on Dessecran - hunted down Genestealers stalked by a Lictor that was killing the high command she killed it with single bolt shell - hwoever it then seems to come back in the campaign - or rather is reborn to hunt her specifcally by the Hive mInd.
"She maintains that mass-reactive shells spread the authority of the Emperor in a far more concise and compelling fashion than even the sermons of St. Lucius"
Her example in speech and action converts millions of the population and they turn back to fight the Tyranids (although this is not her plan and cocks it up actually a bit)
Load so cool battle depictions as the Sisters slaughter the Nids. Lots of pictures of the models as well!
and some nice quotes to use
Against such an implacable defence as that made by the Sisters of Battle, heretics, traitors, even Orks would have broken and fled long ago
The order defended a lysite crawler (what the people of Lysios live in) against a living tide of Trynaids without a single step backward.
The white armoured Sisters of the Sacred Rose embody these same virtues (as their founder) and faced down the Tryanid invaders of Lysios with stoicism, laying down a hurricane of firepower where lesser warriors would have panicked and faltered.
Various references in the book to Magda's masterful planing, lots of respect from other commanders - her plan does in fact work - they corral all the people and let the nids attack, defeat the entre first wave, 2nd wave is then destroyed by a tidal wave as the refuges and surviving Sororitas eecape (approx 1000 of the latter) , Magda is killed by the Lictor on the last page, a creature she's already killed several times.
There is a great bit half way through when she is confronted by a massive brood beast - out of ammo - she then finds a single bolt shell, loads the "blessed" round and kills it in one shot, and all its brood, the spores cease..............
Some stunning new art – one depicts Seraphim in mid air combat with Tyrnaoctye – just awesome
Lastly there is mention of “The Order of the Sacred Rose drove their Convent-Fortresses and grand transports through the slime slicked ruins of Agueploita Prime”
Mr Morden wrote: ...The Order of the Sacred Rose drove their Convent-Fortresses and grand transports through the slime slicked ruins of Agueploita Prime...
So I brought my sisters force to a little mini-tourney earlier today. Got 2 games in and I was pleased with the fact that most of my force was at least started in the painting department. Here was a brief summery of my list
Uriah
Priest with LoF and nothing else
1x battle conclave (5 crusaders, 2 DCA’s)
3x BSS H.Flamer, Flamer in Immolators with TL-MM 3x Dominion with 4x melta in Immolators with TL-H.flamers
2x Exorcists
1x Avenger strike fighter – bolt cannon, 2x lascannons, heavy stubber
Hereticus inquisitor – psycocculm, melta pistol, 3x servo skulls, nothing else special
Henchmen riding a chimera (2x heavy bolters, psybolts) (3x plasmagun, psyker, and a 4 point acolyte due to having 4 points left over)
So the first game was against a SM player (iron hands) with a forgeworld heavy list.
Forgeworld land raider with anti-melta armor
Forgeworld sicarian tank with anti-melta armor and sponsons with some type of gun on them
Forgeworld contemptor dread with skyfire guns so long as it doesn’t move (needs a rules update for that one)
2x rhinos with marines in them, melta on anything that can take it.
1 other dread with a heavy flamer and a multi melta.
So the game was an interesting one. We were using the melstorm missions and this one was on the corner tables. He set up first and was somewhat defensive so I decided to send the conclave and 2 of the dominion into reserves. I admit that I do not like to put anything in reserve, but I did it anyway.
To summarize the game, my reserves trickled in over the course of the next 4 turns. I never touched the land raider because I didn’t think there was a point without the use of melta. Objective cards went in my favor and I ended up winning by something like 7 to 5.
Interesting moments included:
the avenger flying on the field and decimating one of the tactical squads, then losing its cannon to all sorts of marine return fire.
The conclave squad being beat up, but getting into combat with the marines… marines should NOT get into combat against DCA’s.
Game 2: Against the Nids
2 x hive tyrants with wings and lots of shooting
20 or so gants
3 warriors with some type of gun
2 poision cloud monsters (they give cover saves)
There was something else… hum… oh yea, the hierophant bio-titan
So, we played on the long board and I really only had one chance in this one. Locking the stinking city block sized monster in combat with re-rollable stormshields and hope that he doesn’t roll 6’s on his stomp rolls.
I scouted everything forward (3 dominion and 1 inquisition chimera) He went first and flew with both of his tyrants to take out vehicles and he unloaded on them. I lost a lot of vehicles in this phase (1 dominion and a BSS immolator along with the chimera), but none of that mattered. I shoved one dismounted dominion squad an inch away from the titan so that he wouldn’t gain ground on the charge (correct, I fed the dominion squad to the bio titan). Dominon got eaten but the titan only consolidated 2 inches.
My turn 1. Circled the hive tyrants in the air and unloaded on them. Wounded both, but only brought down the non-general one, which I charged with the unmounted BSS squad followed by the conclave that included both the LoF priest and Uriah. After hatred re-rolls and re-rolls on to wounds from the prayers he droped and I consolidated an inch from the biotitan. The BSS squad was decimated in that combat.
His turn 2. Flew his general towards my exorcists and blew one to oblivion. The bio titan charged the conclave (this was both important and also inevitable). The rest of the army shot at stuff, but nothing really important happened outside of grinding down the inquisition squad. Hand to hand resulted in no wounds to either side.
My turn 2. Avenger zoomes on the field and decimates the general – hive tyrant.
Summery of the rest of the game:
So after the hive tyrants were taken out he had practically no mobility. I systematically destroyed what I was able to destroy with all of my units. The avenger did a wonderful job gunning things down as it flew around the table.
The hand to hand match. Clearly this was the most important part of the game. I could not kill him, but in the same way he wasn’t able to take out the storm shields. The combat lasted until the end of the 5th turn when Uriah finally died. This squad was amazing and I am convinced it is the answer to a lot of the potential problems that the sisters are vulnerable to. Litanies of faith is a must-have!
I ended up collecting a huge pile of objective cards on this game and ended up winning the tourney. My final thoughts were:
1. I need to play more often because as usual I was forgetting stuff. The first game I tried to send an immolator up a hill that was clearly not climbable by a vehicle. Felt dumb about that one, because it was silly.
2. I need to figure out how to efficiently take out things with anti-melta armor. Not sure how to do this yet.
3. The Avenger is amazing! This was the first time I’ve ever used it (bought it very recently) and I am very impressed. The amount of firepower this thing has is truly incredible and the mobility makes it fit very well with the sisters army. Think glass cannon and you pretty much have an avenger. Love the figure as well.
4. Fun games, tactically challenging. I’m glad that I was able to go. Special thanks to my wife for dealing with the children while I spend time pushing my plane across the table
Wives are awesome, glad you gave props to yours. Also impressed that you managed to neutralize the enemy's big, expensive, hard-to-kill units -- the melta-proof Land Raider and the freakin' bio-titan -- by out-maneuvering them and using economy of force while you focused on killing everything else. Shows there's a place for tactics in 40K and that it's not all about list-building or who brings the biggest superheavy or latest Forge World oddity.
Also, on a completely unrelated note, for anyone who's remotely interested in homebrew units, I have, um, a lot of them I've done over the last year-plus consolidated into a single mega-post here:Sisters of Battle Fandex/Expandex: 30 New Units For The Adepta Sororitas. I'm eager for comment & critique.
war wrote: So I brought my sisters force to a little mini-tourney earlier today.
My final thoughts were:
1. I need to play more often because as usual I was forgetting stuff. The first game I tried to send an immolator up a hill that was clearly not climbable by a vehicle. Felt dumb about that one, because it was silly. 2. I need to figure out how to efficiently take out things with anti-melta armor. Not sure how to do this yet. 3. The Avenger is amazing! This was the first time I’ve ever used it (bought it very recently) and I am very impressed. The amount of firepower this thing has is truly incredible and the mobility makes it fit very well with the sisters army. Think glass cannon and you pretty much have an avenger. Love the figure as well. 4. Fun games, tactically challenging. I’m glad that I was able to go. Special thanks to my wife for dealing with the children while I spend time pushing my plane across the table
Sounds like that was a lot of fun! I fully agree with 3. when it works, it is amazing. Wipe a Marine Squad before getting blown up is exactly what it does. Do not be afraid to Jink as soon as he unloads all that fire at it. A few of my opponents made the mistake of trying to ignore it: Turn 2 of another marine squad wiped...
Quick comments that might help: 1. I really recommend a few fast, low-points games to get used to the Sisters. Forgetting Shields of faith, Acts of faith and (still) forgetting the "martyr" rules was my biggest downfall when i started. If your local GW has a gaming night or so, just turn up and keep testing those units. 500pts is enough. Vanilla canoness+ 2 of 5-man BSS = 315pts of stuff to test.
2. I am quite surprised by the list. I'd say take MM Immolators with the Dominions, and probably recommend Rhinos for the BSS (which gives you left over points - you can buy a repressor). That way they get fire points and can fire while you're driving around. They can also overwatch if anything charges the Rhino (Immos cant do so), and seeing as you have Flamer+HF, as i do, i can guarantee they will think twice before charging into a guaranteed D3 S5 AP4 shots (at minimum).
I don't know how well your immolators did though... As for how to melta, i don't think there is much recommendation past what you already did: If you go 1st: scout, disembark, and melt. If you go second: Outflank, disembark, and melt. Not forgetting to Act of Faith and ignore cover is also important.
Mavnas wrote:Yeah, I just ordered an Acheron. I figure, I can use exorcists and Melta to pop open transports and the flamer to clean up. Of course, at the speed I paint, I will let you guys know how it works out sometime in 2016...
Also, my other figures are based on "snow" so I kind of want to make the knight with the giant flamers stand in a big puddle.
Shouldn't be too hard. You can get special modelling water, or you can just use clear PVA. It's basically the same stuff. Build up the edges of the base a little, paint the bottom the colour of mud, glue the knight to it, then fill the sucker with glue. I say put the titan in first because that way the feet will be properly submerged rather than the Knight mysteriously being able to walk on water! If you want your Knight to look more mobile, it's a bit more complicated - you'll have to sculpt the glue as it dries, and the elasticity of it will make that hard.
My typical algorithm for crusaders to DCA ratio is about 3 crusaders to 1 DCA's. The crusaders are frankly more important because they're the ones that let the unit tank almost anything. You don't need many DCA's for them to deal all sorts of damage.
Thats just my experience with them, I know that some people do all DCA's and have a lot of luck with them. 5++ rerollable is still pretty good, but I just find that I'll take too much damage if I don't have the stormshields to hide behind.
One thing I will say is that if I was going to bring more, i'd likely bring in a second unit. I'm not sure that expanding the current unit would be worthwhile, but a second unit would be able to guard another part of the battlefield. No Lit of faith on the second unit though....
Could someone look at this potential TAC list for my wife? She continues to play with her lists (while we eagerly await the collections arrival), and is building with an eye toward 1850pts.
Can you explain why? The Sisters codex says, "A model may take..." and nothing else. It even has exceptions when ONLY a Canoness may take a piece, or only a Priest.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Could someone look at this potential TAC list for my wife? She continues to play with her lists (while we eagerly await the collections arrival), and is building with an eye toward 1850pts.
Canoness' and Ministorum Priests are the only models that can take relics, though some relics are restricted to either only Canoness' or only Priests. Celestine comes with a fixed Wargear loadout that you can't change (like most, if not all, named characters in the game). Which means she is highly susceptible to Instant Death since she can't take the Mantle of Ophelia, so watch out for S6+.
You haven't listed it there, but I assume you know that the Inquisitor needs to be a Psyker to take a Force Sword. Personally I would drop his Needle Pistol and give him Rad Grenades instead - if he's gonna be attached to the DCA/Crusader squad it's gonna want to get into CC where the pistol is useless. Dropping Rad, Psyk-Out and Psychotroke Grenades onto a unit that you charge with DCA/Crusaders is insanely brutal. For extra brutality, put a Ministorum Priest in there to make the Crusaders have a re-rollable 3+ Invuln (take the Priest from the Sisters Codex and give him the Litanies of the Faith so you auto-pass the War Hymn test).
I prefer to have my sisters armoured up inside transports, but that's a personal choice. However I would recommend you ditch the Heavy Bolters on the Battle Sister Squads - Give them a Meltagun or Heavy Flamer instead. Heavy Bolters are not too bad when you take 4 of them and give them Rending (ie Retributor Squads) but a sole Heavy Bolter that will snap-shot if you need to move the squad is pretty useless.
The list looks fine overall though. I really like Sisters + Inquisition allies. She's got the stand out units in Exorcists, Melta-toting Dominions in Immolaters and Hand-Flamer Seraphim so you can't go too wrong. With regards to Seraphim, don't forget that since they're Jump Infantry they can Deep Strike (along with Celestine) - Deep Striking all those flamer templates with Shred on some unsuspecting backfield unit can create real headaches for opponents - especially since Celestine is no slouch in Close Combat herself (but keep her far away from Power Fists/Monstrous Creatures...).
Some special characters have options, but st Celestine is one that does not. Look at the entry for a cannoness. The 7th section is the options and it mentions relics in there. The saint doesn't have that portion and so does not get any options.
I like the look of the list. I'll never be a huge fan of land raiders, but DCAs charging out of them will be a lot of fun.
Other thoughts... I go back and forth on the combo melta for Dom squads. 10pts always seems like a lot for one shot
As we've discussed before, there's almost no reason to take a Canoness over Celestine or Jacobus unless you have an irrational hatred for SC or something.
The Canoness could tank challenges in the inquisitor + conclave unit, holding off the enemy until the DCA start to have their wounds spill into the challenge. Uriah would be pointless there and Celestine isn't an EW and can't ride with them in the LR while they approach.
Mavnas wrote: The Canoness could tank challenges in the inquisitor + conclave unit, holding off the enemy until the DCA start to have their wounds spill into the challenge. Uriah would be pointless there and Celestine isn't an EW and can't ride with them in the LR while they approach.
Uriah would give them another act of faith and fearless/counterattack. Far from pointless.
Thats true, but is having a T3 EW with a 3+ better than just taking another inquisitor? If you want something to tank for you (and have space in the LR) then go with Deamon hunter Inquisitor with termi armor. If there's a priest in the unit his 2+ re-rollable is pretty impressive for tanking ap 3+ or worse attacks in hand to hand.
Idk, every time I try a Canoness i'm disappointed with her performance. the points tend to go elsewhere in my forces.
pretre wrote: As we've discussed before, there's almost no reason to take a Canoness over Celestine or Jacobus unless you have an irrational hatred for SC or something.
I like using the Canoness - I like St C as well but she won't go into a vehicle no matter what I say to her
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Could someone look at this potential TAC list for my wife? She continues to play with her lists (while we eagerly await the collections arrival), and is building with an eye toward 1850pts.
Canoness' and Ministorum Priests are the only models that can take relics, though some relics are restricted to either only Canoness' or only Priests. Celestine comes with a fixed Wargear loadout that you can't change (like most, if not all, named characters in the game). Which means she is highly susceptible to Instant Death since she can't take the Mantle of Ophelia, so watch out for S6+.
You haven't listed it there, but I assume you know that the Inquisitor needs to be a Psyker to take a Force Sword. Personally I would drop his Needle Pistol and give him Rad Grenades instead - if he's gonna be attached to the DCA/Crusader squad it's gonna want to get into CC where the pistol is useless. Dropping Rad, Psyk-Out and Psychotroke Grenades onto a unit that you charge with DCA/Crusaders is insanely brutal. For extra brutality, put a Ministorum Priest in there to make the Crusaders have a re-rollable 3+ Invuln (take the Priest from the Sisters Codex and give him the Litanies of the Faith so you auto-pass the War Hymn test).
I prefer to have my sisters armoured up inside transports, but that's a personal choice. However I would recommend you ditch the Heavy Bolters on the Battle Sister Squads - Give them a Meltagun or Heavy Flamer instead. Heavy Bolters are not too bad when you take 4 of them and give them Rending (ie Retributor Squads) but a sole Heavy Bolter that will snap-shot if you need to move the squad is pretty useless.
The list looks fine overall though. I really like Sisters + Inquisition allies. She's got the stand out units in Exorcists, Melta-toting Dominions in Immolaters and Hand-Flamer Seraphim so you can't go too wrong. With regards to Seraphim, don't forget that since they're Jump Infantry they can Deep Strike (along with Celestine) - Deep Striking all those flamer templates with Shred on some unsuspecting backfield unit can create real headaches for opponents - especially since Celestine is no slouch in Close Combat herself (but keep her far away from Power Fists/Monstrous Creatures...).
Thanks man. Those Heavy Bolters were actually supposed to be Meltas... Don't know how that mistake snuck through, but noted, regardless.
I don't have a Codex in front of me, but do Inquisitors get to chuck all three grenades in CC? I don't know why, but I had always thought it was one speciality grenade at a time.
Also, is the Landraider transporting that Inquisitional Warband a solid idea, or would those points be better spent elsewhere? Strikes me as a lot of points for a durable delivery system that then just sits around flaming... in an army already full of cheap flame templates. Is getting that Warband to the lines intact worth that?
Mavnas wrote: The Canoness could tank challenges in the inquisitor + conclave unit, holding off the enemy until the DCA start to have their wounds spill into the challenge. Uriah would be pointless there and Celestine isn't an EW and can't ride with them in the LR while they approach.
Uriah would give them another act of faith and fearless/counterattack. Far from pointless.
The priest already gives them fearless and the conclave has no act of faith or ability to activate it. Counter attack and 2 4++ wounds isn't worth 75 points (difference between him and an unnamed priest).
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war wrote: Thats true, but is having a T3 EW with a 3+ better than just taking another inquisitor? If you want something to tank for you (and have space in the LR) then go with Deamon hunter Inquisitor with termi armor. If there's a priest in the unit his 2+ re-rollable is pretty impressive for tanking ap 3+ or worse attacks in hand to hand.
Idk, every time I try a Canoness i'm disappointed with her performance. the points tend to go elsewhere in my forces.
The guy in termi armor goes squish as soon as someone brings a Thunderhammer. The canonness with 4++ rerollable and EW doesn't.
The LR is good, but the warband should be bigger if you're dropping that many points on it.
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pretre wrote: I meant Hymn, not AoF, since Uriah doesn't have AOF.
It is worth 75 points when you're not paying 65+relic for the canoness.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I mean, I guess you're dedicated to the canoness, I just think it's a waste.
No, Uriah just has no place in that unit. Whether or not there's a canonness. It basically takes all the reasons someone should take him and invalidates them.
You're just wrong there. He saves you 25 points from another priest and 65+ points from the canoness.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The question is really how much you want to spend on HQ and what you want them to do. If you want them to enable that unit and your FOC, Uriah is cheaper and better.
pretre wrote: You're just wrong there. He saves you 25 points from another priest and 65+ points from the canoness.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The question is really how much you want to spend on HQ and what you want them to do. If you want them to enable that unit and your FOC, Uriah is cheaper and better.
Uriah doesn't replace a canonness in any situation other than competition for HQ slots. Their roles couldn't be more different. Also she costs 105+.
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deviantduck wrote: In addition, Uriah puts the 'Crazy Old Man' in 'These girls would be scarier if they had a Crazy Old Man with them' statement.
Uriah does nothing for a battle conclave that a priest with the litanies can't do cheaper and better without costing an HQ slot.
pretre wrote: You're just wrong there. He saves you 25 points from another priest and 65+ points from the canoness.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The question is really how much you want to spend on HQ and what you want them to do. If you want them to enable that unit and your FOC, Uriah is cheaper and better.
Uriah doesn't replace a canonness in any situation other than competition for HQ slots. Their roles couldn't be more different. Also she costs 105+.
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deviantduck wrote: In addition, Uriah puts the 'Crazy Old Man' in 'These girls would be scarier if they had a Crazy Old Man with them' statement.
Uriah does nothing for a battle conclave that a priest with the litanies can't do cheaper and better without costing an HQ slot.
Here's the problem. From a points efficiency standpoint, a priest and canoness is 130. Uriah is what... 100. More efficient.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, the canoness does one thing. She tanks wounds. I'd rather spend less points and have things that actually do damage.
In that case the most efficient is adding 2 additional priests with power mauls to Smash. Uriah's Damage is non-existent. The Canoness can take an eviscerator, but she's still there to tank.
Uriah is best in a blob that he can give 5++ to or a squad that needs its AoF 3 times.
A Canoness is only worthwhile in a unit that will be facing the enemy's biggest beatstick.
Mavnas wrote: In that case the most efficient is adding 2 additional priests with power mauls to Smash. Uriah's Damage is non-existent. The Canoness can take an eviscerator, but she's still there to tank.
Uriah is best in a blob that he can give 5++ to or a squad that needs its AoF 3 times.
A Canoness is only worthwhile in a unit that will be facing the enemy's biggest beatstick.
Those two will never be the same unit.
But now you're dropping even more points, making it even less efficient.
The battle conclave is never efficient to begin with. It works best if the enemy brought a melee deathstar at which point it needs to be strong enough to take on said deathstar. The Canoness exists to keep the SM captain with SE or equivalent busy so the DCAs and friends can pour their attacks into the. Unit. Otherwise, the enemy might just have him tank all your AP3 hits.
Gone are the days of the power maul/power Axe DCA squad. I use to run them with only ablative acolyte wounds because I could pretty much kill a unit per turn regardless of what it was. Now you really have to avoid 2+ armor like you would avoid a hand gernade dipped in plague.
As for Jacobus. He is best in a large sisters unit when he is the warlord, but the counterstrike and fearless bubble gives him some flexibility. He has recently become my go-to general and I've had some success with him.
I really wish that the seriphim formation wasn't apoc only. Jump troops are lords of the maelstrom missions and it would give me an excuse to bring 20 to the table.
Enough DCAs with an inquisitor will bury even 2+ with number of attacks, esp if the inquisitor has a force axe and you can spare a priest or two to smash with a maul. The unit gets expensive though, but if it can't kill each of the enemy's units 1 on 1 then it's a waste of a LR. I'm tempted to try 3 Crusader, 3 DCA +. 1 priest x3 in allied Drop pods. 150 points each for units he has to remove or run from... Might work if I drop enough other stuff or scout a bunch of doms forward.
Yeah, now I keep trying to figure out if the Mace of Valaan can be worth it if your inquisitorial henchment bring a couple daemonhosts. The problem is Fleshbane doesn't ignore armor so you'd still need to give yourself Smash. All it really helps with are T5+ enemies (or T4+ when no Rad Grenade exists).
And even then on the charge you only get 4 attacks that wound at AP2 about 72% of the time at I3. (Though on average one of them should be a precision hit that will allow you to pick off some troublesome enemy.)
Actually, this might be a chance for that new BA primaris to shine. You'd be able to buff the priest to 4 + d3 attacks at I 3 +d3, which might give you a chance to knock out enemy special weapons before they go. You could give the BA psyker Valour's Edge and with their new formation have him also swing at S5 I5 giving you 8 +d3 total AP2 attacks before enemy MEQ would swing. The problem is you still don't have someone who can survive a challenge reliably against a melee beatstick character. Your only real hope then would be that that guy has a Thunderhammer or Power Fist and you can wipe his unit and spill enough wounds into that challenge to kill him too (or be willing to throw away a priest).
Automatically Appended Next Post: That and for all my Deathstar theory crafting I still run lists full of MSU.
So looking deeper into it, Smash + Mace relic + demon host should give 5 + 2d6 rerollable against vehicles. That's a decent chance to pen a knight at AP2, but even with extra attacks your priest won't singlehandedly knock it down. On the other hand the rest of that unit might be able to. There would be the 10% or so chance you'd lose everyone to the Str D blast (yay for saves being rerollable until the end of the phase, boo for a roll of 6 on str D).
The priest would have a 1/6 + 1/4 * 2/3 = 1/3 chance of dying if he had to make his rerollable save, but with templates, don't you keep making saves with one model until it does then move to the next one? If so a crusader with his 1/9th chance of dying should eat it first. It all breaks down if the D portion scatters onto your unit and a 6 is rolled (you can't LOS!that part, right?)
Actually after all this, I'm thinking Mephiston buffing himself is more sensible at least for vehicle killing. I guess that brings is full circle to an expensive battle conclave + ICs with no great answer to AP2.
Them making an "effort" in painting new pictures and writing new fluff means that they are not forgotten. Although it still leads to the "End of Times" dread:
SisterSydney wrote: "And then every Sister of Battle everywhere in the galaxy died, because reasons. The end."
But i'd go for the positive reason, as always!
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Mavnas wrote: Actually after all this, I'm thinking Mephiston buffing himself is more sensible at least for vehicle killing. I guess that brings is full circle to an expensive battle conclave + ICs with no great answer to AP2.
Melta Guns? And the Battle Conclave running at something else, cause they know Termi Armour is not their thing?
I still remember the best way to get Deep Striking Terminators:
All 3 (i had 2) Exorcists in one corner of the board, moving forward while pounding the enemy every Turn.
Ultramarine player Deep Strikes awesome expensive CC Termies 3-4" behind them.
I drive 12", Flat out 6". Guess how fast they move and charge range? Drove across craters too, and didn't roll a 1, plus he'd hidden the rest of his army out of range on the other board side, guess how the next turn went?
If you're taking a Canoness for a fighty unit, you really should look into the Sacred Standard of the Orders Militant.
Personally, I like the Canoness. She puts a couple more meltas into my Dominion squad and can tank a couple of wounds on her Rosarius and Eternal Warrior.
Also, there is one other unit in the army who can take a Relic: The Dialogous.
If the battle conclave can't knockout or at least tarpit the enemy's biggest, baddest unit it doesn't belong in a land raider. That said, I've been tempted to experiment with smaller battle conclaves in the 100-150 point range as distraction or counter-assault units. Those could get by without without being made of pure murder.
shows how much showtime my repentia have had...I forgot they were fearless. My experiences with repentia is wiped out in a single round of shooting if footslogging or charging an imperial knights out of a stormraven and die from the explosion.
