I'm almost certain I saw an update somewhere that said she was worth a point if she wasn't coming back and/or the game ended before she could. Did that disappear ?

Mavnas wrote:
I'm almost certain I saw an update somewhere that said she was worth a point if she wasn't coming back and/or the game ended before she could. Did that disappear ?

Haven't seen that one.

"If Saint Celestine is your Warlord, her Martyrdom special
rule will only take effect, and she will only award Victory Points for objectives such as ‘Slay the Warlord’, if she fails her
Act of Faith test or if she has been removed as a casualty for the second time."

And all of the act sentences before that say 'can use'

So not taking the test isn't failing it, and dying once isn't dying twice. Holy dick move, batman!

 deviantduck wrote:
"If Saint Celestine is your Warlord, her Martyrdom special
rule will only take effect, and she will only award Victory Points for objectives such as ‘Slay the Warlord’, if she fails her
Act of Faith test or if she has been removed as a casualty for the second time."

And all of the act sentences before that say 'can use'

So not taking the test isn't failing it, and dying once isn't dying twice. Holy dick move, batman!

Nice catch!

Are people still using the celestial model or have they converted their own?

 MrFlutterPie wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
"If Saint Celestine is your Warlord, her Martyrdom special
rule will only take effect, and she will only award Victory Points for objectives such as ‘Slay the Warlord’, if she fails her
Act of Faith test or if she has been removed as a casualty for the second time."

And all of the act sentences before that say 'can use'

So not taking the test isn't failing it, and dying once isn't dying twice. Holy dick move, batman!

Nice catch!

Yeah, I've been talking about this one since she came out. I don't particularly think of it as a dick move since the rule is pretty clear and it is pretty big negative not to have her come back, but that's me.

As to The_River's question, I use the original model, pinned to heck and back.

The_River wrote:
Are people still using the celestial model or have they converted their own?

Celestine is one of the best Sisters models we have, I don't know why people wouldn't use her! I've seen conversions to give her wings (I even have one that gives her that Sanguinor's wings), but it's still usually Celestine in some form or fashion.

Her only problem is she's very top-heavy so I use a very weighted 40mm base to keep her steady.

This is my converted Celestine (apologies for fuzzy photos)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15093073/photo%203.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15093073/photo%204.JPG

Most of the parts are Dark Eldar, with a Grey Knight sword.

 curran12 wrote:
This is my converted Celestine (apologies for fuzzy photos)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15093073/photo%203.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15093073/photo%204.JPG

Most of the parts are Dark Eldar, with a Grey Knight sword.

Nice

Is she supposed to be on a 40mm base? I seem to remember some rule about using a base the size of the one models come with and she has both a 25mm and a 40?

I have this model:

A collection of bits and a pack of milliput waiting for me to convert it into Celestine.

But my focus and drive for the game sorta... broke, so it's in my projects tower in a draw, and there it shall remain till I get back on the horse.

where did you get that model its very nice....

Visible cleavage is HERESY.

You'll find info for it here

And that's what the Milliput is for.
Though I might have her contritioness-y and leave the upper arms bare.

Mavnas wrote:
Is she supposed to be on a 40mm base? I seem to remember some rule about using a base the size of the one models come with and she has both a 25mm and a 40?

She comes with both, and according to what I got back from a service rep was that she actually goes on the 40mm. Personally I like her on the 40mm because she is easier to balance but some people argue for the 25mm.

So I'm thinking of fielding this 750pt list.

2xBSS squads
2xRet Squads with 4 heavy bolters
1xDom Squad in Immo with 4 meltas
1xSeraphim 2x hand flamers, superior
St. Celestine

I'm not quite sure what to do with the last 25 points. Sadly, one immolator/rhino is the only vehicle I currently have painted and assembled and I don't forsee putting others together at any kind of reasonable speed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Possible options:

A priest.
Upgrade the dom's sister superior and give her a plasma pistol
Give 5 of the 6 superiors melta bombs
Add a second use of Rending or Ignores Cover to one of the units
Extra regular sister + Dom to have more bodies on the table
Drop all upgrades from the seraphim, buy a bunker.

And various combinations of all the above.

Get heavy and specials for the bss.

Without mechanizing them, it might be hard to get into special range. Though I suppose I could give each a multi-melta. Not enough firepower to justify standing still if I want to move, able to pop an incoming transport in a pinch or take a potshot at nearby model with a good armor save. I could see that.

Only 25 points though.

I use the original model, lightly converted. I've never seen or played her on a 40mm base - mine didn't come with any base (or arms, or backpack... hence the conversions, I actually pulled her body out of a bitz box).



Thus I present... Ephrael Stern, once of the Order of our Martyred Lady.

Nicely done.

The_River wrote:
Are people still using the celestial model or have they converted their own?

I picked up the fine cast wings off of the BA Deathco character (forget the name) with a weighted base, she stands up just fine for me.

Awesome model. Um, but someone needs to start an "awesome Sororitas models thread" before the Tactica thread goes fatally off topic.

How about a Showcase thread, exclusively for Sororitas models?

Back on topic, what's the latest opinion on Penitent Engines? I've used them once since 7th came out, and they did well enough that I'm seriously considering taking them again. Just me, or are other people thinking similar?

 dracpanzer wrote:

The_River wrote:
Are people still using the celestial model or have they converted their own?

I picked up the fine cast wings off of the BA Deathco character (forget the name) with a weighted base, she stands up just fine for me.

Fantastic work. Looks so beautifully gothic (the normal kind )

Have people had any luck running repentia?

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
How about a Showcase thread, exclusively for Sororitas models?

Back on topic, what's the latest opinion on Penitent Engines? I've used them once since 7th came out, and they did well enough that I'm seriously considering taking them again. Just me, or are other people thinking similar?

Two are win win imo. Cheap unit, anti hoard, if your opponent ignores them they rock face. If not they waste shooting at some other then your bss. Do not take one or three. (Too fragile and too spendy) And only take the once the essentials are taken.

So I decided to finally buy into fortifications for my sisters army. Been thinking about it for a while honestly. I decided on the firestorm redoubt to plop my HB repentias in. It comes with two (I hope I get the name right) icarus quad lascannons. They're pretty kool it seems, TL , interceptor, skyfire. Seems to fill that AA role sisters lack. They are automatic fire, so no manual fire from the people inside which is fine since I'm only putting my rets up there and I only run 5. My only gripe is it's a low building so LoS advantage from height will be nil. What you guys think? Think it'll be useful for my force or should I have gone with the bastion everyone talks about?

On a side note it does have a very sistersy feel to it. Hanging scrolls off the wall and all. It seems to fit with the theme of the army.

Run the Bastion with Quad with Saint lol. Twin linked BS7, 4 shots o goody.

I have become increasingly convinced that AA is overcosted given its situational nature. With the skyfire/interceptor combination nerf in 7th, I see no reason to ever get a quad gun now :(

The snap fire at non flier rule it was in 6th ed as well it has not changed that drastically to my knowledge.

Interceptor used to allow Skyfire weapons to fire at ground targets at normal BS.

Showcase of Celestines? =P



My own conversion largely based on Zefig's version.

Very pleased with the result, works great on the table but will need maintenance as she has seen many games, many tables and a lot of (careful) handling.

The Legs make it a very very balanced model for such a high, full-Metal 40mm

Yeah, the bastion is a much better choice nowadays after the skyfire changes.

 dracpanzer wrote:

The_River wrote:
Are people still using the celestial model or have they converted their own?

I picked up the fine cast wings off of the BA Deathco character (forget the name) with a weighted base, she stands up just fine for me.

Hot dog! That's nicely executed.

OT. I only really miss my AA capabilities if going against Deamons or Nid with all their flying MC, which I don't see too often in my local meta, and with the heldrake coming down a peg or two then there's even less to worry about...

Saying that I do like the fire storm redoubt, but as mention the Nerf to skyfire+Intercepted really takes some of the gleam off. How's your meta? You see all of flying MCs or fliers?

D

 evildrcheese wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

The_River wrote:
Are people still using the celestial model or have they converted their own?

I picked up the fine cast wings off of the BA Deathco character (forget the name) with a weighted base, she stands up just fine for me.

Hot dog! That's nicely executed.

Just chiming in; that is a really nice paintjob! Many cudos.

Damn, that Celestine is amazing.

My meta has a few fliers. None of them are spammed though. Don't think I've ever seen more than 2 flyers in one match.

To be honest I kind of felt the firestorm reboubt wouldn't trump the bastion but I give automatic points to style and form. I'm a painter just as much as I am a player so I do justify certain choices in my army based on how it'd look painted nicely and put in my display case or if I think the model just looks terrible and I don't want to field it till I can find a viable alternative (good bye chaos obliterators and exorcist tanks, hello centurions and converted immolaters).

Will the redoubt perform as nicely as the bastion for me? probably not. Will it still be useful in my force? I think it will. I'm still very excited about fielding it but atleast I know that I shouldn't expect miracles from it (I reserve miracles from my sisters anyways lol).

Thx for your input on the comparison guys.

I commissioned my Celestine and Seraphim because I wanted them to be pretty. This was the result:

That's gorgeous! Very well done. I wish I had seraphim to field. I really should have made the investment.

Recently I started thinking of experimenting with a unit of 8 retributors, 4 flamers, simulacrum, inquisitor with scout book, and priest in a rhino. Couple that with a couple units of melta doms... The alternative would be to make Uriah the priest for the 3x rending.

Anyone played with a unit like that?

Mavnas wrote:
Recently I started thinking of experimenting with a unit of 8 retributors, 4 flamers, simulacrum, inquisitor with scout book, and priest in a rhino. Couple that with a couple units of melta doms... The alternative would be to make Uriah the priest for the 3x rending.

Anyone played with a unit like that?

I did this in 3rd (not with the inquisitor). It's called the easy bake oven (Rets + Heavy Flamers + rending).

If I was going to run it, I'd run it cheaper than that. The priest, the extra rets, the simulacrum and the inquisitor are just adding too much to the unit. It's going to die after or before it hits something. If you just want scouting flamers, do that with Doms.

That being said... Now that you can use allied drop pods, if you ally in SW, you can put those rets in a pod and that is just pure hell.

Yeah, if I were going to make them cheap the pods would be the way to go. If I make them expensive, I wouldn't mind the enemy shooting at them as it would mean they're drawing fire away from the 8 melta guns I also scouted forward and from Celestine and her seraphim that are taking longer to get to where they are going due to lack of scouting.

Mavnas wrote:
Yeah, if I were going to make them cheap the pods would be the way to go. If I make them expensive, I wouldn't mind the enemy shooting at them as it would mean they're drawing fire away from the 8 melta guns I also scouted forward and from Celestine and her seraphim that are taking longer to get to where they are going due to lack of scouting.

Problem with that is that it is still "only" 4 Sisters (plus the 4 Flamers). I don't think it will take long for it to go. 1 Leman Russ Shot at that squad or something similar could just clear it in one shot...

1 LR shot at the squad with 8 is probably going to poof as well.

If I can find a list that works for what I want to do, I'm actually considering taking a second combined arms detachment of Raptors Space Marines with Lias Issodon (Master of Ambush warlord trait) and infiltrating either 1-2 Heavy Flamer Retributor squads in Rhinos or Repressors or infiltrating a Sororitas Command Squad in a transport with five multi-meltas.

My newest 2500 points list. It remains battleforged, but I find that objective secured it really not that important in this edition unless you're playing the original missions.


Celestine
3 x Priests, one with the Litanies and another with melta bombs

2 x 5 Sister troops in repressors. 2 Metaguns per squads

2 x 5 Dominions in Immolators. 4 metaguns per squads

1 x 5 Seraphims. 2 hand flamers (just a small bodyguard for Celestine)

3 x Exorcists

2 x Vengeance weapon battery with Battlecannons (3+ cover for exorcists and battle cannons are not bad per say)

Coteaz

3 crusaders and 4 deathcults in a land raider with psybolts, dozers and extra stormbolter.

Calidus Assassin

Knight Errant



The stuffed lander raider and the knight should allow me to dictacte where the fighting witll happen. The battlecannons won't ever be without a target and if anything gets close to the exorcists hiding behind them for LOS blocking and 3+ cover, they run the risk of being taken off the table themselves.

That list has 3 solid components to mess with your opponent's battle plan in the knight, land raider and calidus.

I could take the seraphims off to add points elsewhere, but that leaves Celestine without a guard of her own.

Just played a Zone Mortalis game today: sisters absolutely rock in it

Since all flamers have shred in ZM, I went completely overboard and brought a total of 2 flamers, 5 heavy flamers, 4 hand flamers and 5 combi-flamers to a 750pt game

Voldrak wrote:
My newest 2500 points list. It remains battleforged, but I find that objective secured it really not that important in this edition unless you're playing the original missions.


Celestine
3 x Priests, one with the Litanies and another with melta bombs

2 x 5 Sister troops in repressors. 2 Metaguns per squads

2 x 5 Dominions in Immolators. 4 metaguns per squads

1 x 5 Seraphims. 2 hand flamers (just a small bodyguard for Celestine)

3 x Exorcists

2 x Vengeance weapon battery with Battlecannons (3+ cover for exorcists and battle cannons are not bad per say)

Coteaz

3 crusaders and 4 deathcults in a land raider with psybolts, dozers and extra stormbolter.

Calidus Assassin

Knight Errant



The stuffed lander raider and the knight should allow me to dictacte where the fighting witll happen. The battlecannons won't ever be without a target and if anything gets close to the exorcists hiding behind them for LOS blocking and 3+ cover, they run the risk of being taken off the table themselves.

That list has 3 solid components to mess with your opponent's battle plan in the knight, land raider and calidus.

I could take the seraphims off to add points elsewhere, but that leaves Celestine without a guard of her own.

Why the half-empty Repressors? Do you really prize AV:13 that highly? (A defensible position if you do). I'd be tempted to switch them for Immolators, if only so your already fragile Dominions aren't by far the easiest target on the board.

 SisterSydney wrote:

Why the half-empty Repressors? Do you really prize AV:13 that highly? (A defensible position if you do). I'd be tempted to switch them for Immolators, if only so your already fragile Dominions aren't by far the easiest target on the board.

Here's a few reasons why I like this.

1. There's only 5 models shooting out of the repressor to begin with so any models extra is just an extra wound on that squad. Given that they are quite resilent and can get where they need the extra wounds are unecessary.
2. It's harder to get first blood from this than a rhino or immolator
3. They can go almost where they want, rarely immobilizing themselves.
4. Since it's almost as hard as a land raider or the knight, it forces my opponent to chose between going after the 5 girl troop or the more pressing threat that I am sending down their throat.

I follow the well preached moto: "She who bails will fail." so if my sisters are staying in their transport, I want one that will still allow them to shoot.


Immolators are quite fragile. On Dominions its not so bad because you mitigate this by either scouting and getting a good phase of shooting from it or you outflank so your opponent does not get an chance to shoot at them before they've done damage.

On sisters, not so much. They will grant first blood very easily and will rarely get into any position to do some damage and once they break down, the sisters inside are toast... especially if that happens on the early turns of the game when there is still too much firepower on the table.

The way I see it, Dominions are a suicide unit. Take down something big with them and then assume they will die. Sisters have to work harder to get that chance.

I thought repressors only had 2 fire points.

As of the Second Edition of Imperial Armour Vol 2, page 239:

Fire Points
* Two models can fire from the Repressor's top hatch. In addition, there are three firing ports on either side of the troop compartment, each of which may be fired out of by a single passenger.

So, technically, 8 models can fire out of a Repressor.

The problem is that you're almost never going to get the angle to get both sides of the repressors firepoint to be able to see and aim at your target so realistically you will only get 5 shooting.

You would have to be facing your front at the unit targetted and have them spread apart very very wide to get all 8 firepoints good to go... or be surrounded.

Voldrak wrote:
The problem is that you're almost never going to get the angle to get both sides of the repressors firepoint to be able to see and aim at your target so realistically you will only get 5 shooting.

You would have to be facing your front at the unit targetted and have them spread apart very very wide to get all 8 firepoints good to go... or be surrounded.

Tank shock just deep enough to spread them like that? I think in this edition you can even move only 6" and still shock.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I had a thought for an army list that I will never build given my low vehicle painting speed:

Knight Castigator
Knight Lancer
6x Repressor with either dom squad or BSS.

(Maybe some Exorcists instead of a squad, but then you couldn't maintain a line advancing at 12".)

You would deploy them all facing the enemy close together, each vehicle denying its neighbors' side armor to the enemy forcing him to shoot at AV13 until you got in close and the whole formation breaks up.

Repressors got a PDF update with less FP...

When? The PDF on the website dates from 2012, Imperial Armour Vol 2 was released in November of 2013.

I may have to dig that one up then...

This is the FAQ on their site
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/r/RepressorFAQversion1P.pdf

Yeah, that's old. If you go to the downloads section on their site that PDF is no longer there. It was when I made my post on Saturday, though.

The only errata/FAQ on the Repressor is this, posted back in December of 2013.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA2faq.pdf

The PDF you linked to was posted back in 2012 and Volume 2 has a copyright date of 2013. The only differences between the one you linked and Vol 2 are the fire points (quote I made above), the correction I linked to, and a line in the book that says the Repressor can't transport anything with a variant of the Bulky special rule like every other Rhino variant.

Also, I'm glad I got my two when I did. The Forge World site is now showing the Repressor to be Out of Stock.

Oh sweet. Well I'll see if I can get that book.

So I tried my 750 list against Tau:

St. Celestine
priest, no upgrades

2 min BSS, no upgrades

doms w/4 melta gun, immolator
seraphim 2x hand flamers 1 x vet superior

2x retributor squad 4x heavy bolters

----

I faced
2x pirhanas
1x Riptide
2x Fire warrior Squad
Some sort of amazing commander + bodyguards. (I'm told they were awesome, but they deep strike mishapped and died on impact.)

It was one of the maelstrom missions with the diagonal deployment (which I now officially dislike). The tau player made me place first, I went first.

Many of the units were too far apart. First turn my dominions who had started on the table (because starting off would have meant a 1/3rd chance of outflanking into... nowhere) could only reach a fire warrior squad and were left facing the the entire tau army. So they drove up, got out fired 4 ignores cover shots at fire warriors (3 died), then tossed a frag grenade (3 died). Had I toseed the grenade first that would have been all of them, as it was, one lived and didn't run away. Immolator shot the Riptide, but it felt no pain. Celestine and seraphim used the vehicle for cover (bad move). Heavy bolters opened up and took out a pirhana. Other heavy bolters killed the drones that came off it. Massive overkill (but first blood to me).

The riptide placed a single large blast, blowing up the immolator, killing 3 of the doms (2 directly, 1 from the vehicle explosion and a seraphim). The far firewarriors shot up 1 more dom. The pirhana killed a seraphim.

Turn 2:
Celestine split from the seraphim who went after the pirhana (and an objective), she took cover near the doms, but not joining them. The surviving dom and priest walked towards the riptide, tried to shoot it but invuln. Failed their charge, but didn't lose anything to overwatch. Heavy bolters failed to damage the remaining pirhana.

Tau commander deep strike mishapped himself straight to the list of casualties (making him the my main source of damge against the tau).
Fire warriors killed the surviving dom, riptide dropped a blast on celestine and the priest. Celestine went down for the first time.

Turn 3 and beyond:
Celestine gets back up, Celestine and the priest charge the riptide. More ineffective shooting all around.

Celestine and the priest went 4 fight phases with the riptide, inflicting one wound (priest with his S3 AP - chainsword)! Both died. I tried to Hit and Run after the end of my opponent's turn 3, which would have put me in a position to BBQ and eliminate the remaining fire warrior unit and score one of my objectives, but I rolled a 6 :(

The turn after Celestine's death one of the BSS got in range of the Riptide, fired one set of shots with their pistols then charged it. That combat lasted for the rest of the game costing me one more sister.

End result: Sisters win 6-3.

Fun facts:
Sources of damage to the Riptide:
-66% Nova charge failure
-33% Priest with a chainsword (rerolling to wound)

Source of most tau casualties:
-Commander deep strike mishap!!!
-1 Pirhana, 2 gun drones, 7 fire warriors dead to heavy bolter fire (This is less impressive considering there were 8 heavy bolters shooting for 7 turns).
-3 Fire warriors dead to a single frag grenade
-3 Firewarriors dead to Melta Fire

The tau player did a very good job of staying out of heavy bolter range. I only got one unit, one turn worth of fire at the riptide with them. The far firewarriors were too far. The close ones died to other weapons, so I was left shooting at pirhanas which between Jink and effective cover managed to survive with a single HP throughout and kill off the seraphim denying me Linebreaker.

My most effective unit was an un-upgraded BSS, which locked down the riptide from turn 4 to 7, losing a single battle sister (one more was lost to firewarrior fire).
Celestine killed literally nothing, though she was able to keep the riptide busy for 2 turns (1 for her first shooting death, 2 in melee). The priest that took the hit for her kept the riptide busy for one turn.

On a non-diagonal map, my heavy bolters which were in the center of my deployment, right up on the line would have covered more of the field. The far back BSS wouldn't have been totally out of action on an objective I never drew the card for though in fairness, one of my points was for revealing what all the mysterious objectives were. (There were 5 targeting relays, and 1 grav wave generator.) None of the objectives mattered as they had been mostly placed in the far back or in the middle to tempt the armies to walk up and get shot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, I take that back. Celestine roasted the lone survivor of the dominions' attack in turn 2.

Got third in a 2000 point escalation tourney. Only loss was to a iyandon eldar list in a kill point mission, against a friend who had played against my sister's many times. So the WORST possoble matchup imaginable lol. He had ten units to my 21...

My list.
4x priests stock
Uriah
Saint celestine

3x troops with flamer, storm bolter, plasma pistol and immolator melta

Dominion with combi melta, 4x melta, immolator with melta.
Dominion with flamers and immolator flamer.
9x Seraphams with 2x hand flamer

Exorcist
10x retributers with bolters, combi melta and power maul.

Knight errant

ADL

Beat orks and space wolves.

Okay, so I got the new IA2. Dominions in Repressors got very nice, since you can fire 4 specials and not expose yourself to return fire.

It's true that the Repressor Kit is currently 'Out of Stock' on the site.

I've sent an email asking when it might be back in stock, I'll keep this thread updated on any answers...

D

I've never used the FW kit for mine, so it ain't no thang.

 evildrcheese wrote:
It's true that the Repressor Kit is currently 'Out of Stock' on the site.

I've sent an email asking when it might be back in stock, I'll keep this thread updated on any answers...

D

Some other models (Eldar Vampire Raider for instance) are also out of stock. I've shot em a mail too since I was planning a purchase later this year.. hopefully it's just a new mould.

Got a reply re: the Repressor:

"Hi there.

We are currently making some repairs to the master models for the but we hope to have them available again within the next month.





If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.

Regards,
Forge World"

So at least it'll be back. Part of me was hoping it was getting moved over to GW for a SoB plastic release...still I can live with resin repressors

D

What is the general opinion on Condemnor Boltguns? I was thinking about the idea of having a small Psyker kill team with them.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
What is the general opinion on Condemnor Boltguns? I was thinking about the idea of having a small Psyker kill team with them.

They're not worth taking. :(

 pretre wrote:
They're not worth taking. :(

Well, that is a little disappointing. Out of curiosity, what are the best options for some "stealthy" sisters, in your opinion?

Define stealthy sisters?

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 pretre wrote:
They're not worth taking. :(

Well, that is a little disappointing. Out of curiosity, what are the best options for some "stealthy" sisters, in your opinion?

Dominions with 5 storm bolters? Gives the impression of a special force moving ahead of the main force to do stuff. On the plus side, they're not a bad unit either.
Or you could run a Celestian or Command squad. Both give the idea of 'veteran' units that could be kitted out as stealthy, although I'd give the edge to the command squad.

5 storm bolter dominions? That's not stealth; that's low target priority.

Welp, I got a little confused on just how I wanted my Sisters to act fluff-wise, so I went ahead and tried the Ordo generator, and came up with...this fiasco... So now I have to try and find a few units that can function with this.

Order of...?

Order Type: Minor Order
Order Originator: Order of the Bloody Rose
Purpose of Founding: Strategic Prognostication
Order's Flaw: Faith in Suspicion
Order Demeanor: See, but don't be seen
Primary Saint: Celestian Commander
Deed of Legend: Fought a rebel army and brought an entire sector back to the light of the Emperor
Homeworld: Fleet Based
Rule of Homeworld: Advisory Role
Order Organization: Slight Variation
Order's Strategy: Stealth
Order Divergence: Modified Jump Pack
Method of Worship: Purity of Man
Order's Size: Endangered
Order's Allies: Adeptas Astartes
Order's Enemies: A particular chaos aligned group

About the only thing I know for sure is that I am going to need some dominions...and lots of Sanguinary Guard wings. I am just curious if we have any real other options available for deployment.

Yeah, black color scheme and dominions. That's about as stealthy as sob get.

 pretre wrote:
5 storm bolter dominions? That's not stealth; that's low target priority.

Same difference. Besides, we have nothing with 'shrouded' or 'stealth', so it's a case of 'insert suitable visualisation here'. Doesn't help I've always thought of storm bolters as quieter then regular bolters, especially Sisters ones.

But hey, to each their own. I live in my own reality.

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:

 pretre wrote:
5 storm bolter dominions? That's not stealth; that's low target priority.

Same difference. Besides, we have nothing with 'shrouded' or 'stealth', so it's a case of 'insert suitable visualisation here'. Doesn't help I've always thought of storm bolters as quieter then regular bolters, especially Sisters ones.

But hey, to each their own. I live in my own reality.

HM weird. I always imagined them being louder than bolter, since they fit somewhere between a bolt and Heavy Bolter in terms of range/output

Suppose you could do elongated barrels for that 'silencer' vibe.

D

I think stealthy sisters might be slightly heresy.

Don't they get strongly into the "purge it with fire and make it as public as possible" line of thought anyway?

evildrcheese wrote:

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:

 pretre wrote:
5 storm bolter dominions? That's not stealth; that's low target priority.

Same difference. Besides, we have nothing with 'shrouded' or 'stealth', so it's a case of 'insert suitable visualisation here'. Doesn't help I've always thought of storm bolters as quieter then regular bolters, especially Sisters ones.

But hey, to each their own. I live in my own reality.

HM weird. I always imagined them being louder than bolter, since they fit somewhere between a bolt and Heavy Bolter in terms of range/output

Suppose you could do elongated barrels for that 'silencer' vibe.

D

Fair enough. I saw it as they were issued to special forces (Grey Knights, specifically), were of newer, more advanced design (vs the combi-bolter) and were Sisters issue, smaller then Space Marine weapons. But yeah, I can see how it could go both ways.

BoomWolf wrote:I think stealthy sisters might be slightly heresy.

Don't they get strongly into the "purge it with fire and make it as public as possible" line of thought anyway?

In general, but some of the Orders are known for being clinical and tactical, preferring to use their heads. I'm sure they are capable of using stealth when it makes sense to.

I think in a Sisters context being clinical and tactical means preferring melta guns to flamers.


If you want stealthy, you could always take Cypher.

Mavnas wrote:
I think in a Sisters context being clinical and tactical means preferring melta guns to flamers.


If you want stealthy, you could always take Cypher.

And assassins.

Homebrewed Stealth & Infiltrate Sisters if you wanna try them sometime with a willing opponent. Note: gloriously unplaytested.

After testing some builds for a tournament I've come up with a list that I think is balanced, but I'd like some feedback and comment. The list and some notes:

PRIMARY:

Pask (Warlord) Punisher, Lascannon, Multimelta sponsons, Camo
-Leman Russ Punisher (squadron)
Vendetta
Leman Russ Eradicator
Vets, 2 meltaguns
PCS, 2 infantry squads, 2 flamers, 40 Conscripts

DETACHMENT

Saint Celestine
2 Priests, Book of Saint Lucius
5 Sisters, 2 meltaguns, Rhino
5 Sisters, 1 flamer, Immolator with TL Multimelta
5 Dominions, 2 meltaguns, Immolator with TL Multimelta
5 Dominions, 4 flamers, Immolator with TL Multimelta
2 Exorcists

Saint Celestine and a Priest join the 40 Conscripts, giving them Fearless, Hit and Run, and Hatred. These bubble wrap Pask and his fellow Punisher. The other Priest joins the 20 Guard blob giving them Fearless. The Book of Saint Lucius gives all friendly units within 12" auto regroup, so the Vets will stay within 12" of the blob Priest. The Eradicator will stay near Pask, forming a AV14 wall, with the Exorcists and Sisters transports behind them. The Dominions will either Scout first turn or outflank. The 5 Sisters in the Rhino will actually hitch a ride on the Vendetta for last turn objective claiming. PCS will trudge along behind the conscripts to give them orders.
Strategy is obviously dictated by my opponent but that is the main idea, with Pask protected by the Conscripts, who can hit and run allowing Pask to unleash his Punishers. Also Celestine can go off on her own if needed and beat face.
Ideas or thoughts welcome.

Looks good. Swap the sister immo for a rhino toget more meltas for the doms though.

 davidgr33n wrote:
After testing some builds for a tournament I've come up with a list that I think is balanced, but I'd like some feedback and comment. The list and some notes:

PRIMARY:

Pask (Warlord) Punisher, Lascannon, Multimelta sponsons, Camo
-Leman Russ Punisher (squadron)
Vendetta
Leman Russ Eradicator
Vets, 2 meltaguns
PCS, 2 infantry squads, 2 flamers, 40 Conscripts

DETACHMENT

Saint Celestine
2 Priests, Book of Saint Lucius
5 Sisters, 2 meltaguns, Rhino
5 Sisters, 1 flamer, Immolator with TL Multimelta
5 Dominions, 2 meltaguns, Immolator with TL Multimelta
5 Dominions, 4 flamers, Immolator with TL Multimelta
2 Exorcists

Saint Celestine and a Priest join the 40 Conscripts, giving them Fearless, Hit and Run, and Hatred. These bubble wrap Pask and his fellow Punisher. The other Priest joins the 20 Guard blob giving them Fearless. The Book of Saint Lucius gives all friendly units within 12" auto regroup, so the Vets will stay within 12" of the blob Priest. The Eradicator will stay near Pask, forming a AV14 wall, with the Exorcists and Sisters transports behind them. The Dominions will either Scout first turn or outflank. The 5 Sisters in the Rhino will actually hitch a ride on the Vendetta for last turn objective claiming. PCS will trudge along behind the conscripts to give them orders.
Strategy is obviously dictated by my opponent but that is the main idea, with Pask protected by the Conscripts, who can hit and run allowing Pask to unleash his Punishers. Also Celestine can go off on her own if needed and beat face.
Ideas or thoughts welcome.

The second punisher without Pask will be a lot less effective. I'm not sure what it gives you. Since you're rerolling 1s with that unit the more traditional choice is the one with the plasma gun + plasma sponsons for 5 plasma blasts. Since it can shoot at a different target than Pask's Punisher, this lets you deal with other light vehicles/heavy infantry while Pask deals with whatever you want. Also gives the unit slightly more range than Pask's 24".

Flamer doms seem kind of pointless. I mean you have a unit that can already ignore cover for a turn, and probably won't live much beyond that. Anything 4 flamers are a threat to, you already handle well enough with Pask and his squad mate. The other dominion squad with only two melta guns also seems like a waste. 2 shots won't really guarantee you're popping anything. If you really want a 4 flamer unit, I'd say get retributors with 4 heavy flamers, toss in a priest and a few extra bodies and a simulacrum. They won't be as fast as the doms, but they will be able to shift infantry off an objective and then hold it with rending heavy flamers.

Yeah flamer doms are a little redundant in so much as they ignore cover all the time, sure dropping 4 flamer templates on a unit will hurt, but with access to 2x flamer or flamer+heavy flamer in the standard 5 (wo)man battle sister squads you really should be going for ignore cover meltas.

If you can maybe put the BSS in immolators and the Melta doms in rhinos so they can shoot out the top hatch.

I really like the idea behind the list, nice mixing of IG and SoB.

Could you scramble enough points for a SoB priest with lots of faith and some IG priests to go with the conscripts? Auto passing war hymns gives the conscrpts some teeth.

D

So, I am trying to make a different kind of sisters list just to see how it will do. While I am fully aware that it is going to get curb stomped by any semblance of a competitive list, I would still like to see how well it does. Our FLGS has a 1,000 point tournament coming up and I want to field penitent engines and possibly repentia sisters. Since I am running PE's, I am envisioning something more akin to a Kan wall, so I am wondering if I should just make this an all foot list.

With that in mind, I have the following available:

4 Peninent engines (was trying to get 6, but sigh)
2 x 10 Repentia sisters (with mistress)
1 x 9 repentia sisters (no mistress, would have to convert or acquire one)
7-9 priests of varying equipment
1 Uriah
1 St. Celestine
1 Canoness (alas no command squad though)
Enough sisters with meltas, flamers, Heavy Flamers, Multimeltas, and Heavy bolters to configure something.
Handful of seraphim (5 painted and ready to go, 10 more some assembly required)
I also have an assortment of Exorcists, Immolators, and Rhinos.

I was leaning towards 2 squadrons of 2 PEs backed up by 2 BSS squads, each with a priest. St. Celestine and a Ret Squad would round things out. But, I am throwing this out to other minds. What would you do with this mess of overly expensive metal models to make it work?

Thanks in advance.

If you're going to run PE, you need to put immediate and hard pressure on your opponent. Foot isn't going to do that.

PE Squads
Dominions with melta in Rhinos/Immos/Repressors
BSS with melta/HF in Rhino/Repressors
Retributors with HF in Repressor?
Celestine and Seras

Just run the whole thing at your opponent turn one and hope for the best. You should have enough targets to cause targetting issues and MAYBE your PEs will actually get to assault.

I don't have my codex in front of me, but going from memory, I think I can field something like:

St. Celestine
2 Ministorum Priest
2x Battle Sister Squad with Heavy Bolters
2 x Dominion Squad (4 meltaguns) with TL MM Immolators
5x Seraphim with hand flamer
3x Penitent Engines

Priests go with the two BSS squads to keep them fearless as they camp on backfield objectives. Heavy bolters give them some range to reach out and touch someone.
The remainder march forward to serve the Emperor.

Or should I ditch the priests and scrape up some points for rhinos for the two BSS?

It's not horrible.

I'd still try to get vehicles for the BSS though rather than the priests. They're going to get chewed up otherwise.

I agree. I will play around with the points when I get home (going from memory right now). It definitely has a chance to wreck face if it gets a chance to shoot first......

So, I played around with some numbers and here is what I came up with:

Canoness with Litanies of Faith
Battle Sisters x 5 (2 flamers) with Immolator TL MM
Battle Sisters x 5 (2 flamers) with Immolator TL MM
Dominion Squad x 5 (4 meltaguns) with Immolator TL MM
Dominion Squad x 5 (4 meltaguns) with Immolator TL MM
Penitent Engine x 2
Penitent Engine x 2

As I said, not expecting to do all that well, but maybe I catch someone napping....

Alright, so what do people think about upgrading superiors to vet superiors? The extra leadership may save you from running off the table, but it's 10pts that could be spent elsewhere. This is a question where the vet would be in troop choices in a priest bomb blob list, so no fearless to pass around like candy...

What does Dakka think? Worth it or no?.

Also, a little late to the party, but here's my Saint Celestine.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
Alright, so what do people think about upgrading superiors to vet superiors? The extra leadership may save you from running off the table, but it's 10pts that could be spent elsewhere. This is a question where the vet would be in troop choices in a priest bomb blob list, so no fearless to pass around like candy...

What does Dakka think? Worth it or no?.

Also, a little late to the party, but here's my Saint Celestine.

D

Spoiler:

Work like that, it's never too late.

I always take vets on squads above 5, although I jump straight to 10, so YMMV. The extra leadership is excellent, but that extra attack has saved my ass on more then one occasion.

You also have to consider your Acts of Faith, not just whether or not the unit will run. You have a 72.22% chance of rolling an 8 or less, meaning you'll typically fail 5 Acts of Faith for every 18 you attempt.


You have an 83.33% chance of rolling a 9 or less, which are the same odds of a model with an initiative of 5 or higher failing an Initiative test for Hit and Run (1 in 6, or 3 in 18).

It may not be as big a deal for your baseline squads, but it could be crucial for your Seraphim, Retributors and Dominions.

I never take veteran superiors, except in 6th with the occasional seraphim. But that used to only be for challenge bait when i ran them with Celestine. Now that challenges are vastly different, i probably wouldn't. I also haven't run seraphim in 7th yet.

10pts is huge. that's another flamer or melta elsewhere. Not to mention, if you're that concerned you can take a simulacrum for the same pointt cost and have two 72% chances, or the laud hailer on 1 rhino for a 27" reroll bubble.

Yeah, I agree with DD. Superiors are points better spent elsewhere.

Well, remember that Celestine projects an Ld 10 bubble for acts of faith.

I'd say eating the challenge for Celestine is still worthwhile. Imagine a tough 2+ model with MEQ buddies. If the seraphim superior can eat the challenge for Celestine, she can murder his squad then Hit and Run away before having to eat high S AP2 wounds herself and Celestine can tank the low str ccw attacks with her 2+. If your opponent has fewer attacks or you roll OK on your 6++ reroll able, he gets to be the one making the test to not run away. Without the superior, Celestine is swinging in effectively against 2+ hoping you won't fail a single 4++.

Only if you take her as your warlord. Jacobus is a pretty good warlord in his own right, and if I can make this Raptors list work my warlord will end up being Lias Issodon because his special rule requires him to be your warlord. Not that I'd balk at having infiltrating Dominions and Seraphim!

I always take a vet SS on my doms as I usually outflank with them and I don't want to fail my aof. I play on a ruins heavy board so being able to ignore cover is very important for me. Also they are usually way out of Celestine's bubble.

I'd rather take a laud hauler...

Yeah loud hailer for the doms is the way to go.

Yeah I'm not sold on the vet superiors being worth it.

Jaco will always be my warlord when running the blob. Celestine if running mechanised MSU, and I running msu, there's priests to lass around for fearless.

D

I wouldn't take priests for msu. Kinda defeats the point of small and cheap.

I can still appreciate the challenge bait worthiness of a veteran SS in a seraphim squad attached to celestine. But, in my last 6 6th games the squad always seemed to be annihilated before getting anywhere close to earning its points backs, so i just haven't' forgiven them yet, and haven't ran them in 7th


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't know why this just popped into my head, but i'm going to try putting a vindicare in a rhino on top of my bastion. So the enemy has to strip 3 hull pts off of AV11 behind a 4+ cover save just to get to the gooey center of model that will then have a 3+cover/4++ save.

Shenanigans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Unless assassins can't embark on transports, haven't looked,

They can. Does pivoting in place count as moving?

 deviantduck wrote:
I can still appreciate the challenge bait worthiness of a veteran SS in a seraphim squad attached to celestine. But, in my last 6 6th games the squad always seemed to be annihilated before getting anywhere close to earning its points backs, so i just haven't' forgiven them yet, and haven't ran them in 7th


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't know why this just popped into my head, but i'm going to try putting a vindicare in a rhino on top of my bastion. So the enemy has to strip 3 hull pts off of AV11 behind a 4+ cover save just to get to the gooey center of model that will then have a 3+cover/4++ save.

Shenanigans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Unless assassins can't embark on transports, haven't looked,

How does the rhino get on top of the bastion?

D

Deploy it on top!

Air dropped of course.

Ha.

Excellent use of shenanigans. Not sure I could make it fly at my club though.

D

I am -- assassin. I am -- silent. I am -- deadly. I am -- invisible. I am -- sitting in a tank on top of a tower. Yeah.

 SisterSydney wrote:
I am -- assassin. I am -- silent. I am -- deadly. I am -- invisible. I am -- sitting in a tank on top of a tower. Yeah.

Right where they would least expect me!

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Welp, I got a little confused on just how I wanted my Sisters to act fluff-wise, so I went ahead and tried the Ordo generator, and came up with...this fiasco... So now I have to try and find a few units that can function with this.

Spoiler:

Order of...?

Order Type: Minor Order
Order Originator: Order of the Bloody Rose
Purpose of Founding: Strategic Prognostication
Order's Flaw: Faith in Suspicion
Order Demeanor: See, but don't be seen
Primary Saint: Celestian Commander
Deed of Legend: Fought a rebel army and brought an entire sector back to the light of the Emperor
Homeworld: Fleet Based
Rule of Homeworld: Advisory Role
Order Organization: Slight Variation
Order's Strategy: Stealth
Order Divergence: Modified Jump Pack
Method of Worship: Purity of Man
Order's Size: Endangered
Order's Allies: Adeptas Astartes
Order's Enemies: A particular chaos aligned group

About the only thing I know for sure is that I am going to need some dominions...and lots of Sanguinary Guard wings. I am just curious if we have any real other options available for deployment.

Never knew of this generator, will have to give it a try, and tweak some parts (paint scheme already Order of Our Martyred Lady colour swap).

As for stealth sisters.... In a campaign...? hmmmmm. Yelling "Burn the Heretics" at one's top voice with Laud Hailers blaring Hymns on the March (<Usual Combat Style), i think "Order Divergence" would have to be quite significant for Stealth...
If you have not read Faith and Fire (Sisters book) i'd recommend it. There is a "stealth moment" there, but it's more along the lines of Kill-Team and only because Impure Heretic said so....

 evildrcheese wrote:
Alright, so what do people think about upgrading superiors to vet superiors? The extra leadership may save you from running off the table, but it's 10pts that could be spent elsewhere. This is a question where the vet would be in troop choices in a priest bomb blob list, so no fearless to pass around like candy...

What does Dakka think? Worth it or no?.

Also, a little late to the party, but here's my Saint Celestine.

D

Spoiler:

Vet Upgrade: no unless you want extra weapons (Double Plasma Pistol on dominions was a thing for me for a while...), Laud Hailer on their transports worth it instead, and I did like Seraphim Superior with Power Lance (When i get away with it asking my opponent - I'm allowed a power Sword, can i make it a Lance...?)

 SisterSydney wrote:
I am -- assassin. I am -- silent. I am -- deadly. I am -- invisible. I am -- sitting in a tank on top of a tower. Yeah.

Love it. --- I'm good at Assassin. You sure that it was not an Ork you employed?

If you do get away with such awful Shenanigans, i'd convert a Bunker to the Shape & Size of a Rhino to put up top as my new "Sniper Nest"
>

 deviantduck wrote:

I don't know why this just popped into my head, but i'm going to try putting a vindicare in a rhino on top of my bastion. So the enemy has to strip 3 hull pts off of AV11 behind a 4+ cover save just to get to the gooey center of model that will then have a 3+cover/4++ save.

Just wondering.

What happens when your opponent destroys that bastion first.....?
I cannot recall without my brb in front of me, but does the bastion become impassable terrain when destroyed?
I don't recall there being any rules for vehicles falling off buildings.

All sorts of headaches spring from this....

Why not just put your rhino on a skyshield and take the 4+ invul save?

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Welp, I got a little confused on just how I wanted my Sisters to act fluff-wise, so I went ahead and tried the Ordo generator, and came up with...this fiasco... So now I have to try and find a few units that can function with this.

Order of...?

Spoiler:

Order Type: Minor Order
Order Originator: Order of the Bloody Rose
Purpose of Founding: Strategic Prognostication
Order's Flaw: Faith in Suspicion
Order Demeanor: See, but don't be seen
Primary Saint: Celestian Commander
Deed of Legend: Fought a rebel army and brought an entire sector back to the light of the Emperor
Homeworld: Fleet Based
Rule of Homeworld: Advisory Role
Order Organization: Slight Variation
Order's Strategy: Stealth
Order Divergence: Modified Jump Pack
Method of Worship: Purity of Man
Order's Size: Endangered
Order's Allies: Adeptas Astartes
Order's Enemies: A particular chaos aligned group

About the only thing I know for sure is that I am going to need some dominions...and lots of Sanguinary Guard wings. I am just curious if we have any real other options available for deployment.

That generator stole a good bit of one of my Order ideas! At least the stealth, modified jump packs, and Astartes Allies.

If it weren't for the fact your Homeworld is 'fleet based' you could always use an urban camo-style paint scheme. Blacks, grays, and maybe some red.

Well, I have solidified a fair bit of what I am going to push for. My early list will consist of something in this general form.

The Visage Angelic These ride in the transport hunting along the flank.
Canoness w/ Mantle of Ophelia, Rosarius
Command Squad w/ 4 Storm Bolters, Simulacrum Imperialis, Immolator

The Faithful Host These EBCs run with their Priests in transport and are the main push.
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino

Sovereigns of the Guard These are my backfield objective holders. The Rhinos move up however once their cargo has secured the area.
Battle Sisters Squad w/ Rhino
Battle Sisters Squad w/ Rhino

The Angels' Wrath These girls serve as a distraction for my main line and hunt for the objective holders, or for last minute pushes to contest objectives.
Seraphim Squad
Seraphim Squad
Seraphim Squad

Purity's Choir These are for the specific hunting of any monstrous creatures and armor on the field.
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributor Squad w/ 4 Multi-Melta, Simulacrum Imperialis, Combi Melta, Immolator w Multi-Melta

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Well, I have solidified a fair bit of what I am going to push for. My early list will consist of something in this general form.

The Visage Angelic These ride in the transport hunting along the flank.
Canoness w/ Mantle of Ophelia, Rosarius
Command Squad w/ 4 Storm Bolters, Simulacrum Imperialis, Immolator

The Faithful Host These EBCs run with their Priests in transport and are the main push.
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino

Sovereigns of the Guard These are my backfield objective holders. The Rhinos move up however once their cargo has secured the area.
Battle Sisters Squad w/ Rhino
Battle Sisters Squad w/ Rhino

The Angels' Wrath These girls serve as a distraction for my main line and hunt for the objective holders, or for last minute pushes to contest objectives.
Seraphim Squad
Seraphim Squad
Seraphim Squad

Purity's Choir These are for the specific hunting of any monstrous creatures and armor on the field.
Exorcist
Exorcist
Dominion Squad w/ 4 Multi-Melta, Simulacrum Imperialis, Combi Melta, Immolator w Multi-Melta

Thematic based army, or do you want to win some games?

Whichever it is, have you considered Allying Inquisition?

Drop a thing here or there, and replace "The Faithful Host These EBCs run with their Priests in transport and are the main push.
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino"

with the same squads from Inquisition, and they can have a Land Raider. Make it more like 2 Crusaders, 6 Death Cult (i'd suggest dropping the Acro-F but you can still use some). And fit the Inquisitor either with them and Liber H (So the whole thing Scouts) or somewhere else (also with Scout, or other).

It'll help to win a little and also help with the "Stealth" Theme. Scouting Land Raider. Paint it black/Camo... =P


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and another Issue:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

The Angels' Wrath These girls serve as a distraction for my main line and hunt for the objective holders, or for last minute pushes to contest objectives.
Seraphim Squad Fast Attack
Seraphim Squad Fast Attack
Seraphim Squad Fast Attack

Purity's Choir These are for the specific hunting of any monstrous creatures and armor on the field.
Exorcist
Exorcist
Dominion Squad w/ 4 Multi-Melta, Simulacrum Imperialis, Combi Melta, Immolator w Multi-Melta Fast Attack

Unless you meant Retributors?

 BlackTalos wrote:
Thematic based army, or do you want to win some games?

Whichever it is, have you considered Allying Inquisition?

Drop a thing here or there, and replace

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
The Faithful Host These EBCs run with their Priests in transport and are the main push.
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino

with the same squads from Inquisition, and they can have a Land Raider. Make it more like 2 Crusaders, 6 Death Cult (i'd suggest dropping the Acro-F but you can still use some). And fit the Inquisitor either with them and Liber H (So the whole thing Scouts) or somewhere else (also with Scout, or other).

It'll help to win a little and also help with the "Stealth" Theme. Scouting Land Raider. Paint it black/Camo... =P

It's both thematic and potentially competitive. Also, I would have to drop quite a bit to make 500 points free for those land raiders.

 BlackTalos wrote:
Oh, and another Issue:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

The Angels' Wrath These girls serve as a distraction for my main line and hunt for the objective holders, or for last minute pushes to contest objectives.
Seraphim Squad Fast Attack
Seraphim Squad Fast Attack
Seraphim Squad Fast Attack

Purity's Choir These are for the specific hunting of any monstrous creatures and armor on the field.
Exorcist
Exorcist
Dominion Squad w/ 4 Multi-Melta, Simulacrum Imperialis, Combi Melta, Immolator w Multi-Melta Fast Attack

Unless you meant Retributors?

Yes, I did. I went back and corrected myself.

Well, the idea of the change was not really "those", but the 1.

With the price of 2 squads in Rhinos, who will probably be Las-Canoned down (probably be even Heavy-Boltered down...) because the enemy knows you have 2 CC units inside, which would also have to wait a turn outside (reason for the 3 Crusaders?)
you could put in 1 Land Raider Crusader, 12 Models (Inquisitorial Warband is 3-12) containing 2 Crusaders and possibly 10 Death Cult assassins (or 5 of each Acro-F and Assassins) for the same amount of points.

You'd still have to find the points for the Inquisitor and if you want to add another 2 priests w/ EBC.
But it would make a 15-Man world of pain (competitively), and if it gets Scouting due to the book, then it would also work Thematically for the stealth part...

Simple suggestion, i have considered adding Inquisition to my SoB army for a while but never got to it, so staying pure Sisters if fine too!

My friend held a mini-tournament at his place the other weekend. We had two tables setup on the living room. Was top.

Tried out my new 1000 point Sisters army and won all three games (vs CSM, Orks and Tau). The mix of melta and flamer shots cover a great range.

Also, those Exorcist tanks can be lethal.

The battle against the Orks was the closest as the horde numbers are crazy when they flat out on turn 1 and then pile in on turn 2. I was losing for the first three rounds but carried on...slowly clawed back the game by a single victory point.

Against Tau I lost a Rhino and Immolator before picking up a single die.

Lesson learnt: always play to the end.

Overall, I really enjoyed playing with the Sisters. The rules they have give them a clear focus and feel on the tabletop that separates them from being a SM army.

I have no idea if it is really just Sisters, but i often have the same impression of "clawing back" Victory.

Maybe it's just me facing hard-hitting Turn 1 Armies...

 BlackTalos wrote:
I have no idea if it is really just Sisters, but i often have the same impression of "clawing back" Victory.

Maybe it's just me facing hard-hitting Turn 1 Armies...

I face a lot drop pod armies, DS Grey Knights and bike heavy IF backed by sternguard and devastators so I get hit pretty hard early on. However, I think sisters have a good counter punch. As our domms start outflanking and our flamers get into range we really start to turn up the heat on our enemies. Due to our short range weapons we need a turn or two to get into postion before we can really start killing stuff. I've played so many games where I feel like I'm on the ropes by turn 2 but by turn 5 I'm often doing really well.

Not so much a tactical thing, but I just want to give my Immolator driver a gold star for her performance last weekend. Tank shocked a block of 20 BS 5 (thanks to Czeras) Necron Warriors who botched leadership and ran off the board off of the only objective the Necrons had. :3

 BlackTalos wrote:
Well, the idea of the change was not really "those", but the 1.

With the price of 2 squads in Rhinos, who will probably be Las-Canoned down (probably be even Heavy-Boltered down...) because the enemy knows you have 2 CC units inside, which would also have to wait a turn outside (reason for the 3 Crusaders?)
you could put in 1 Land Raider Crusader, 12 Models (Inquisitorial Warband is 3-12) containing 2 Crusaders and possibly 10 Death Cult assassins (or 5 of each Acro-F and Assassins) for the same amount of points.

You'd still have to find the points for the Inquisitor and if you want to add another 2 priests w/ EBC.
But it would make a 15-Man world of pain (competitively), and if it gets Scouting due to the book, then it would also work Thematically for the stealth part...

Simple suggestion, i have considered adding Inquisition to my SoB army for a while but never got to it, so staying pure Sisters if fine too!

Your fine, I understand completely. I just find it hard to run allies at smaller point games. Eventually, my plan is to run a Sisters of Battle/Black Templar/Inquisition Imperial Cult army.

From the looks of it though, it seemed you were aiming at 2000Pts, which is fine for allies.

1000-1500 you are right though, going without allies is better to save up points for your own units...

Once i do finish making-painting my Land raider i will try a few games with the favorite combo i've had in mind:

 BlackTalos wrote:
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in Carapace Armour, with Hellrifle
Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband with 3 Plasma Cannon Servitors & 2 Jokearos
Land Raider Crusader (DT)
(Thx Goon)

Sister Repentia x 10

Turn 1: Inquisitor and friends disembark (if they even have to... - DT must have their unit, but what about "none"?), Repentia Embark, drive off 12" (Turbo not allowed i think)
Turn 2 : Repentia assault from transport (and just as useful as old codex) =)

Just double checked, and you may indeed deploy the transport "Alone", embark the repentia on turn 1, and move normally 12"+Flat out (if you don't really want to snap shoot)

The issue with Repententia is if you go second, they might not live long enough to get on the LR.

Yeah, just ally a different army and take a HS Land Raider. Like Space Wolves.

Then you can get a HS Land raider and a drop pod for something fun.

is an item selling out like this normal? doesn't it normally say out of stock?
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Battle-Sister-with-Storm-Bolter-1

Sisters models have been going out of stocks slowly, I'd imagine it is them selling off their remaining stocks of metal models.

But this is the first time a model that's gone is marked like that. At least I've never seen it before.

deviantduck wrote:is an item selling out like this normal? doesn't it normally say out of stock?
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Battle-Sister-with-Storm-Bolter-1

Shandara wrote:Sisters models have been going out of stocks slowly, I'd imagine it is them selling off their remaining stocks of metal models.

But this is the first time a model that's gone is marked like that. At least I've never seen it before.

Keep an eye on this...1 of many things will happen. Either it is removed from the page, signifying that they will no longer carry that model, and we will know that Sisters are truly dead. It could be refilled, signifying that GW cares enough to about sisters to make more out of an expensive material, and we shall know that we are loved. Or, the end times come, and GW takes the time to start anew and turns away from the pewter molds and casts them out of a plastic or resin alternative. And we shall know that we have come into the times of His final judgement as we are either damned or eternally blessed with Finecast or Plastic Sisters of Battle, respectively.

Yes... but would Sisters going to plastic be a good or bad thing?

I kind of enjoy my certain level of 40K snobbery when I bring them out.

I'm torn. I like painting the metal more, but having more poses and/or enough bits to actually represent our war gear options might be better. For example, I'd never take a power sword on an S3 model now that inquisitors can't guarantee that they will get Hammrrhand.

Normally they say out of stock, meaning the inventory is depleted temporarily. This is the first time i've seen it say sold out. Makes it seem like this model will be gone forever now. I guess we need to keep an eye to see if others start trickling off the site? The optimist in me says its because the new dex and line of models will be launched soon. But the pessimist in me keeps kicking myself in the balls when I think that.

Seeing as there's a different sister with storm bolter, it's also possible the model wasn't popular enough to justify having two versions and this means nothing in the grand scheme of things,

Australian site has 'SOLD OUT' on the Superior with Power Mace, Superior with Chainsword and Plasma Pistol, and Sister with flamer 1.

Sister with Storm Bolter 1 is not on Aussie site, although I bought a few better part of a year ago. Hmm.

Mavnas wrote:
Seeing as there's a different sister with storm bolter, it's also possible the model wasn't popular enough to justify having two versions and this means nothing in the grand scheme of things,

I feel that if they were to discontinue one of them it would be the one without the helmet. I don't see how the helmetless one with a face only The Emperor could love is more popular. Maybe since the one with the helmet is more popular they let it sell out to force any future storm bolter purchases to be of the helmetless one to sell it's stock a bit? Either way I'm sad that it's sold out cause I was just thinking of ordering some storm bolter sisters cause I had an idea for a command squad that I was gunna try out. Guess I'll have to proxie it for now or order quadruplets to make it happen. I've been on the plastic sisters re-release roller coaster for so long now that I no longer find much excitement out of things like this sadly. I'm hopeful it means something but I ain't gunna hold my breath.

Well, Sisters of Battle with Storm Bolter 1 is no longer in the roster, and the Command Squad is now Sold Out. Things are definitely heating up. That being said, I am very tempted to stop my SoB conversions to see if we might actually get some plastics here...

They are slowly dwindling from what it seems i've been noticing this since I started my SOB. sisters superior with chain sword and bolter are gone, flamer 2 is gone, seraphim 2 is gone, storm bolter 1 is gone, and meltagun 1 is gone. The last order I'd placed with them took forever because my order was of meltagun 1 SS w/bolter and chain sword and flamer 1. Took almost a month before it came. I gave them a call and said the reason why the order was taking so long was because the SS w/chain sword was "obsolete" as they put it. I guess it's time to go around with more hushed whispers for the2nd coming of sisters?

For the record I prefer the helmetless sisters with re-breathers

Maybe the mould wore out on the strombolter sister? I believe that's why we lost Arch Confessor Kriov and maybe the old 2ed Cannoness with combi flamer a long time ago.

Mavnas wrote:
The issue with Repententia is if you go second, they might not live long enough to get on the LR.

True, but huddled up behind it might not be too bad. A lot of thing go awry if you go second, so i'd make sure they're somewhere safe...
I like the Drop Pod+LR of SW idea, but begrudge Wolf Lord+Grey Hunters tax... 1 25-point Inquisitor is so much more attractive.

As for the Sold Out on the site, i guess patience is the only thing we CAN have...

I also much prefer Sisters without helmets, even the Plastic one in the Immolator/Exorcist Kit.

Seeing the new plastic DE Wytches this month, i am having unnecessary Hope for once (again) lol
Maybe they got over "Robes" by now...?

That or we're using Space Marine Codexes and become very sad....

[ED]:New Succubus, sorry

I am looking forward to more Space Marine Codexes with drop pods as a FA choice. I don't think the wolves do enough to fill gaps in my army.

 BlackTalos wrote:
True, but huddled up behind it might not be too bad. A lot of thing go awry if you go second, so i'd make sure they're somewhere safe...
I like the Drop Pod+LR of SW idea, but begrudge Wolf Lord+Grey Hunters tax... 1 25-point Inquisitor is so much more attractive.

As for the Sold Out on the site, i guess patience is the only thing we CAN have...

I also much prefer Sisters without helmets, even the Plastic one in the Immolator/Exorcist Kit.

Seeing the new plastic DE Wytches this month, i am having unnecessary Hope for once (again) lol
Maybe they got over "Robes" by now...?

That or we're using Space Marine Codexes and become very sad....

[ED]:New Succubus, sorry

I can't recall if Inquisition get Heavy Support land laiders. That being said, I'm a fluff nut and would argue in favor of Black Templar since you can get far more land raiders our of them. Then again, the Inquisition has the cheapest tax...YMMV.

Codex: Inquisition only has Dedicated Transport Land Raiders.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
I can't recall if Inquisition get Heavy Support land laiders. That being said, I'm a fluff nut and would argue in favor of Black Templar since you can get far more land raiders our of them. Then again, the Inquisition has the cheapest tax...YMMV.

Only Space Wolves get Heavy Support LRs, which was why pretre suggested as much...

So either you go with Space wolves so that your girls are embarked turn 1, with (horrendous IMHO) tax, or you go with the other Dedicated Transport LRs (Black Templars, Inquisition, Any Space Marines really) in which case i'd favour Inquisition...

Oh wait.

Just checked the Grey Knights Codex and may have found our answer... Return of the Witch/Daemon Hunters force!! lol
(Still a pretty bad HQ+Troops tax though, but 'im okay with a few GKs)

SW get your FA Drop Pods as well.

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
I can't recall if Inquisition get Heavy Support land laiders. That being said, I'm a fluff nut and would argue in favor of Black Templar since you can get far more land raiders our of them. Then again, the Inquisition has the cheapest tax...YMMV.

Only Space Wolves get Heavy Support LRs, which was why pretre suggested as much...

So either you go with Space wolves so that your girls are embarked turn 1, with (horrendous IMHO) tax, or you go with the other Dedicated Transport LRs (Black Templars, Inquisition, Any Space Marines really) in which case i'd favour Inquisition...

Oh wait.

Just checked the Grey Knights Codex and may have found our answer... Return of the Witch/Daemon Hunters force!! lol
(Still a pretty bad HQ+Troops tax though, but 'im okay with a few GKs)

Land Raiders are heavy support in Codex Space Marines too. You might be thinking of Black Templar Crusader squads whuch can take them as Dedicated Transports in addition. Still, that would mean having to take Space Marine allies and they smell funny...

I would go with Inquisition Land Raiders too, but I would be putting Death Cult Assassins (from codex inquisition) in them instead. Now you will shred 3+ troop and elites, and you can add a Canoness with a couple of Priests from Codex Adepta Sororitas to the unit, all toting Eviscerators, for some AP2 action.

I am going for a well-balanced take-all-comers list with as much anti-infantry and anti-tank as possible, while also putting Fearless blobs and high AV tanks into play. I have played this list in some friendly games with great results but don't know how it will hold up in tournament play.

PRIMARY:

Pask (Warlord) Punisher, Lascannon, Multimelta sponsons, Camo
-Leman Russ Executioner, Plasma sponsons (squadron)
Vendetta
Leman Russ Eradicator
Wyvern (HF)
Vets, Lascannon
PCS, 2 Infantry Squads, 2 Flamers, 45 Conscripts

DETACHMENT:

Saint Celestine
2 Priests, Book of Saint Lucius
5 Sisters, Immolator with TL Multimelta
5 Sisters, Immolator with TL Multimelta
5 Dominions, 4 meltaguns, Immolator with TL Multimelta, Dozer Blade
2 Exorcists

2000pts ..Saint Celestine and a Priest join the 45 Conscripts, giving them Fearless, Hit and Run, Adamantium Will and Hatred. These bubble wrap Pask and his fellow Executioner. The other Priest joins the 20 Guard blob giving them Fearless. The Book of Saint Lucius gives all friendly units within 12" auto regroup, so the Vets and PCS will stay within 12" of the blob Priest. The Eradicator will stay near Pask, forming an AV14 wall, with the Exorcists and Sisters transports behind them. The Dominions will either Scout first turn or outflank. One squad of Sisters will hitch a ride on the Vendetta for last turn objective claiming. PCS will trudge along behind the conscripts to give them orders. Wyvern will fire from cover but not be near any Objectives. Strategy is obviously dictated by my opponent but this list goes for midfield control, with Pask protected by the Conscripts, who can "pin" the opponent in place then Hit-and-Run allowing Pask to unleash his punishment. Also Celestine can go off on her own if needed, and with 3d6" Hit-and-Run could actually do last turn objective
claiming with the Conscripts.
I played a list similar to this several weeks ago but found it lacking in some areas, and got some feedback from here that I considered for this list.
Would appreciate ideas or thoughts to make this list as competitive as possible.

So, I had thought adding priests to an MSU list was a waste, but I'm starting to come around to the idea of 1-2 priests in the units that will be near the front or like the melta doms.

Today, I played a 750pt game vs. chaos. I rushed my doms forward in a poor attempt to pop a rhino that got my squad attacked by 10 CSM. They killed 2 doms with their pistols then charged. They lost 1 to overwatch from the 3 surviving meltas. The priest reminded everyone that the Emperor Protects and the 24 attacks from the enemy marines turned into a single casualty. (This is actually not very bad luck on the chaos part, 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, rerollable 3+ to not die = 1.2 kills on average.) The challenge was another matter. The priest made both his invuln saves then turned around and cut the sergeant in half and took a second CSM with him (Yeah... 3 attacks at rerollable 4+ to hit 5+ to wound turning into 2 dead marines is a clear sign that the Emperor was on my side.) Technically at this point the CSM should have broken, but we forgot the penalty for how much they lost the assault by. In the end, they fought for another 3 assault rounds before Celestine showed up and scattered the chaos rabble like leaves on the wind (if the wind were made of fire). She actually killed 6 of the 7 on the charge (clearly the Emperor was with us today).

The priest never failed his War Hymns, but Celestine was within 12" for half of the checks, including the all important initial one which would have failed without her Beacon of Faith.

She would have intervened sooner had I realized she wasn't needed elsewhere (there was a sorceror with invis in a 10 man cultist squad). He'd failed his invis (only 3 dice thrown into it), and I desperately needed to cook that squad before he put more dice into his invis. As it turned out, 22 shredding handflamer wounds were more than enough to take off the whole unit before Celestine or any bolt pistols had a chance to fire.

The Helldrake never came on because the Chaos player conceeded after my turn 3. (Technically he could have rolled his turn 3 reserve roll to see if he was tabled or not, but I was up 11-1 at that point and sitting on 5 of the 6 objectives.)

I don't believe in using reserves in small points games, as having a significant chunk of your forces not on the table or having your flyer not show up on Turn 2 can be game breaking. So far in my 750pt escalation league, my decision to ignore anti-air has been vindicated. The 2 HP AV11 space marine flyer went down in a hail of heavy bolter fire, the Helldrake never arrived, and only the SW flyer is left to go in this round. It might be the scariest of the three, but maybe I can cripple the wolves before their reserves arrive?

How'd you get rerolls to wound and saves from one priest?

 pretre wrote:
How'd you get rerolls to wound and saves from one priest?

Looks like he was only re-rolling saves (ie The Emperor Protects)? Priests also hand out Hatred though, so re-rolls To Hit in the first round of combat.

Priests do turn even small Sister squads into pretty decent tarpits against anything that doesn't have AP3 or better. I would be iffy on them if there wasn't some way to either straight up increase their leadership (Warlord Bubble from the Command Table perhaps) or help pass the Act of Faith test (Celestine/Warlord Trait or the Litanies) though.

Yeah, I wasn't getting rerolls to wounds. The Chaos player just rolled poorly against the 2 wounds I very luckily put out. On subsequent turns I was unable to remove any of the other CSMs until Celestine just straight up murdered them (I rolled 11 out of 12 dice 3+ 6 to hit and 6 to wound and master crafted took care of the miss on the to hit.) To be fair though, she just needed to make them fail the morale test than sweep them with her I7 so the exact number killed was somewhat unimportant.

The biggest thing really, is realizing that my melta doms are very scary to most enemies, well in excess of their actual achievements on the battlefield and will be focused. Forcing the enemy to remove every last model takes pressure off my other units turn 1. Though I'm deeply tempted to change the immolator to a rhino as its main purpose is to deliver the sisters 12" on the scout move and both pop equally easily. The rhino would let me add a couple extra bodies to the squad if I want to make them annoying to remove going forward. Normally, I don't like extra bodies in a squad, but I have so reliably managed to get my enemies to shoot this one squad first, that it might be worthwhile to get additional mileage out of the priest.

Alternatively, I could give him the book and take the guesswork out of activating War Hymns, because Celestine won't always be nearby.

My bad, I misread.

I find Rhinos preferably to Immos for my Doms because of the fire points. Best not to jump out until you really need all 4 Melta shots and the act of faith.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
I find Rhinos preferably to Immos for my Doms because of the fire points. Best not to jump out until you really need all 4 Melta shots and the act of faith.

D

I used rhinos back when you needed 10 girls to get 4 weapons. Then, I took 4 flamers and used this as my anti-infantry vehicle.

I prefer the immolator simply because its TL MM can reach out a bit further. I never expect my dominions to last long, so I prefer to have them get in someone's face, kill as much as possible, and then die an honorable and noble death for the Emperor. Also, it lets me split targets (Immolator at one, girls at another).

Immolators + Doms = 2 units destroyed if you're lucky enough with the immo.

 Shandara wrote:
Immolators + Doms = 2 units destroyed if you're lucky enough with the immo.

Combined with a very killy unit(s) sitting in your opponent's face... that they have to deal with. This means, usually, your exorcists are left unmolested in the back.

I'm starting to wonder if I should experiment with space marine scout bikes. If I attached them to Celestine, I could bring her 12" forward and hide her in a T5 unit that can Jink, though the Seraphim are definitely better at tanking low AP ignores cover fire. (Does anyone else find it strange that our tankiest sisters are fast attack?)

Or convert them to Sororitas scout bikes if your opponent is okay with homebrew....

Probably not :( Also, I might be moving soon so everything I know about my local meta is about to be wrong.

Immos usually go with my BSS.

Likewise with potentially killing two units with doms in an immo, there's potential to lose two of your killy units. I like to spread out where the pains coming from, make my opponent consider target priority.

D

 Shandara wrote:
Immolators + Doms = 2 units destroyed if you're lucky enough with the immo.

Dominions and Repressors = dominions living to turn 2.

Yeah, I do want to try a knight and repressor all AV13 list at some point.

Mavnas wrote:
Yeah, I do want to try a knight and repressor all AV13 list at some point.

I've used two Repressors with heavy flamer and flamer inside...Very wicked.

Mavnas wrote:
I'm starting to wonder if I should experiment with space marine scout bikes. If I attached them to Celestine, I could bring her 12" forward and hide her in a T5 unit that can Jink, though the Seraphim are definitely better at tanking low AP ignores cover fire. (Does anyone else find it strange that our tankiest sisters are fast attack?)

Put celestine in front to tank for the bikes. If it's instant death, then look out sir, otherwise all the incoming shots are against T5 and if they aren't ap2 then they aren't going to do much.Essentially the only weakness would be lascanons/meltas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, i'd like to see st celestine on a bike.

Also, i'd like to see st celestine on a bike.

I almost did a Google search for an image from a cheesy 1980s RPG called Biker Nuns From Hell... but then remembered that Google includes the images from Biker Nuns with Guns, which is a sexploitation flick from the 80s, and is definitely NSFW.

You'll have to use your imagination.

Close, but a bit off.


SFW for the other one, but big.

Anyone else going to represent the Adepta Sororitas at the LVO with me? (And/Or piss away $75 to FMC and wave serpent spam)

Whats LVO?

Las Vegas Open I think?

Ahh across the pond - bit far I am afraid

Well, sitting here at home after the rehearsal for my Sister's wedding and painting a harridan, and a thought crossed my mind. Do we have any real options from Forge World for transport fliers?

Well there's options, but I'm not sure how 'real' they are lol.

Aquila Landers and Arvus Lighters from Imperial Aeronautica can both be taken as Fast Attack choices for a Sisters Army. The Arvus Lighter is terrible though (75pts, 12 model capacity, AV10/10/10 and can only snap shot any weapons you pay for it). Unless you desperately want a Deep Strike option for a Battle Sister squad, then you'd be far better off just putting the girls in a Rhino.

But the Aquila Lander might do alright as a transport for a MSU of, say, Dominions. It's effectively a flying Rhino with a Heavy Bolter (or pay for a Multilaser or Autocannon), and a 7 model capacity for 110pts. Deep Strike it in hover mode so you can disembark those delicious melta guns in the enemy's backline somewhere then shoot things with the Autocannon.

It's a real shame that the Arvus Lighter sucks so hard, because I think it's a really cool model.

D

I'm unimpressed by the FW Aquila rules, but J3f's fandex has a upgraded Aquila as well as some other homebrew fliers. Myself, I prefer Sororitas Valkyries, which you can legally get (without Shield of Faith and BS:4, of course) with IG allies.

I'm late to the Celestine show-off party, but some of the Celestine paintjobs a few pages back were so awesome that they literally made me go ahead and start collecting Sisters.

Anyway, I just wanted to show off a bit, I think she's easily one of my best painted models. Can't wait to put her on the tabletop with some Seraphim and go to town!

Dunno if this was mentioned before or not, but there was an update to our codex done on June 30th of this year. if you haven't already, might want to re-download it.

1) Awesome Celestine -- is her skin red-gold, or is that just my iPhone screen? I don't think I've ever seen highlight her supernatural nature that way.

2) What got updated, specifically?

I think it's just the lighting and your screen, unfortunately. Although now that I think about it, it would be pretty awesome to see a Celestine like that (not really how I would want mine to look, but I could dig it for someone else ). It'd be like a parallel to Guan Yu. I finished Romance of the Three Kingdoms a month ago and it was very awesome.

SOB CAD
St Celestine
Priest
BSS (5) with Flamer/Melta in Repressor
BSS (5) with Flamer/Melta in Repressor
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in Repressor
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in Repressor
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors (5) with 4 heavy flamer and combi

COF Detachment
Harald
Iron Priest with TW Mount
Iron Priest with TW Mount
Thunderwolf x4 (SS/WC, SS/CCW, PF, BP/CCW)
Drop Pod
1850

My list for a one day bao style tourney.

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Dunno if this was mentioned before or not, but there was an update to our codex done on June 30th of this year. if you haven't already, might want to re-download it.

SisterSydney wrote:1) Awesome Celestine -- is her skin red-gold, or is that just my iPhone screen? I don't think I've ever seen highlight her supernatural nature that way.

2) What got updated, specifically?

It was just the 'update' for 7th Edition - they changed the names of references to the core rulebook, and fixed up some formatting errors on the Condemnor Boltgun and Exorcist/Penitent Engine profiles. Nothing changed in terms of rules.

If you want SoB flyers then I highly recommend the storm wing formation. It gives you 2 storm talons and 1 stormraven in a formation with some extra rules. You can transport a single SoB unit in the stormraven which is even an assault vehicle (so it works well for crusader units and repentia units, in fact it is the only way I have found to run repentia and actually get usage out of them). I have been contemplating remodelling one of my stormravens with a SoB pilot but I think a tinted canopy and inquisition symbols like it currently is is good enough (considering that crusaders are usually the occupants).

SoB actually got 4 major indirect boosts from current releases.
1) SW being able to loan out drop pods can pretty great when you can stuff them with retributor units with 4 heavy flamers (which can gain rending for AoF). I have been toying with these and they make a mess of most units.
2) Imperial Assassins are an incredible addition to the army. If you go with 3 units of scouting doms in transports then you end up with so many high damage units in the opponent's face that they struggle to cope. I prefer the immolators for this as it puts more pressure and I prefer to keep the assassins alive.
3) Issodon, Chapter Master of the Raptors who automatically gets the Master of Ambush Warlord trait...being able to infiltrate 3 retributor units with MM in repressors or rhinos, or a 20 model SoB mob with priests, etc. is just incredible. Combine this with some scouting doms and you will start with the board under your control.
4) Forgeworld Imperial Knights or the Addy Lance. Combined with repressors and exorcists and you can make an extremely scary and effective army, AV13 wall is not just for necrons.

The only thing I have been frustrated with is that I still feel like my HQ is a tax. At least Celestine is pretty

Celestine's still good for deathstars and Uriah is still good for big sob units.

 pretre wrote:
SOB CAD
St Celestine
Priest
BSS (5) with Flamer/Melta in Repressor
BSS (5) with Flamer/Melta in Repressor
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in Repressor
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in Repressor
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors (5) with 4 heavy flamer and combi

COF Detachment
Harald
Iron Priest with TW Mount
Iron Priest with TW Mount
Thunderwolf x4 (SS/WC, SS/CCW, PF, BP/CCW)
Drop Pod
1850

My list for a one day bao style tourney.

Do you just stick the priest in with 1 of the dominions?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm currently working on a BAO/LVO list. I bought my first drop pod today.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
or in with the rets with celestine?

Priest goes wherever. Although I may stick him with the TWC for rerolls on saves. Celestine starts with the TWC and either sticks with them or goes to the rets. Doms is a good place for the priest too. He can hop out and join the TWC later.

 pretre wrote:
Priest goes wherever. Although I may stick him with the TWC for rerolls on saves. Celestine starts with the TWC and either sticks with them or goes to the rets. Doms is a good place for the priest too. He can hop out and join the TWC later.

Can Celestine still do her Act of Faith (ie get back up) if she's with a Space Wolves unit though? Acts of Faith can only be performed if the entire unit is made up of models with either the Shield of Faith or War Hymns rules. Something to keep in mind maybe.

When Celestine uses her AoF, she's dead, therefore not part of a unit

Exactly that.

Oh right, of course lol

 GoonBandito wrote:

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Dunno if this was mentioned before or not, but there was an update to our codex done on June 30th of this year. if you haven't already, might want to re-download it.

SisterSydney wrote:1) Awesome Celestine -- is her skin red-gold, or is that just my iPhone screen? I don't think I've ever seen highlight her supernatural nature that way.

2) What got updated, specifically?

It was just the 'update' for 7th Edition - they changed the names of references to the core rulebook, and fixed up some formatting errors on the Condemnor Boltgun and Exorcist/Penitent Engine profiles. Nothing changed in terms of rules.

Pretty much this. Also a GW copy-write line at the end with the date.

As I was looking for other changes, I didn't realize until just now that the Hospitaller and Dialogus are no longer mandatory for the Command Squad (if you're taking a Canoness anyway). As I also read it, I can equip all 5 of the Celestians of the Command Squad with special weapons. For about the same points (not counting the points spend on the Canoness), I could get essentially another Dominion squad that doesn't have Scout. This has given me cause to look at taking the Command Squad again.

I would like to try running the command squad as 4 storm bolters and a hospitaller, fairly durable I would think. Sadly I don't have any storm bolter sisters.

I've run them in the past as 4 power weapons and a hospitaller and it was effective but I think it's too much of a points sink unfortunately.

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
As I was looking for other changes, I didn't realize until just now that the Hospitaller and Dialogus are no longer mandatory for the Command Squad (if you're taking a Canoness anyway). As I also read it, I can equip all 5 of the Celestians of the Command Squad with special weapons. For about the same points (not counting the points spend on the Canoness), I could get essentially another Dominion squad that doesn't have Scout. This has given me cause to look at taking the Command Squad again.

Doesn't have scout and doesn't have the ignores cover act of faith. So... not really another dominion squad.

I still think the command squad is only ever really useful if you take the banner and have enough assault units to support them. (Like a couple 50 guardsmen blobs that suddenly get 3 attacks on the charge...)

Actually, I wanted to make a drop pod list with SW where there was a command squad with the banner and a grey hunter squad with their banner for +1/+2 attacks in a 12" radius. 5 units would come down in pods, 1 doms with meltas, 1 retributors with heavy flamers, 1 grey hunters with banner, 1 command squad with banner, and 1 blood claws? each unit would have a priest in it. I just haven't really figured out how to make the points work out and how to take a few extra drop pods and/or guarantee 2nd turn reserves. With guaranteed reserves, the banners could come down turn 2 to buff anyone that survived round 1 and is now ready to charge.

The big downside is this army would have no real mobility after initial deployment, and I couldn't take TWC because all the FA slots would be given over to pods for my sisters.

Mavnas wrote:

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
As I was looking for other changes, I didn't realize until just now that the Hospitaller and Dialogus are no longer mandatory for the Command Squad (if you're taking a Canoness anyway). As I also read it, I can equip all 5 of the Celestians of the Command Squad with special weapons. For about the same points (not counting the points spend on the Canoness), I could get essentially another Dominion squad that doesn't have Scout. This has given me cause to look at taking the Command Squad again.

Doesn't have scout and doesn't have the ignores cover act of faith. So... not really another dominion squad.I

For 150 points (again not including the Canoness) I get 5 Flamers in an Immolator. 155 points gets me 4 Flamers and a Combi-Flamer also in an Immolator. Sure the Dominions have Scout, but if taking Flamers the AoF is a wash.

I'm not saying the Command Squad is a replacement for Dominions at all (far from it). But if you are already taking a Canoness as an HQ and have already maxed out your FA slots, the Command Squad can act like a 4th "poor man's" Dominion Squad in the sense that they can take 5 Specials and a DT.

I know I have previously dismissed the Command Squad as wasted points, but I am rethinking that position given my new understanding of what the squad can take.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
1850 MSU List Utilizing Command Squads

I like the dual-inferno-pistol Canoness, personally, for supporting my Melta-minions.

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
As I was looking for other changes, I didn't realize until just now that the Hospitaller and Dialogus are no longer mandatory for the Command Squad (if you're taking a Canoness anyway). As I also read it, I can equip all 5 of the Celestians of the Command Squad with special weapons. For about the same points (not counting the points spend on the Canoness), I could get essentially another Dominion squad that doesn't have Scout. This has given me cause to look at taking the Command Squad again.

Doesn't have scout and doesn't have the ignores cover act of faith. So... not really another dominion squad.I

For 150 points (again not including the Canoness) I get 5 Flamers in an Immolator. 155 points gets me 4 Flamers and a Combi-Flamer also in an Immolator. Sure the Dominions have Scout, but if taking Flamers the AoF is a wash.

I consider flamer doms a waste of a FA slot and points. Then again, I play against mostly MEQ. They could make a nasty melee unit but are hampered by the inability to take a few extra meat shields to protect their squishy T3 selves, though I could see a cannoness helping a bit in that regard.

 pretre wrote:
SOB CAD
St Celestine
Priest
BSS (5) with Flamer/Melta in Repressor
BSS (5) with Flamer/Melta in Repressor
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in Repressor
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in Repressor
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors (5) with 4 heavy flamer and combi

COF Detachment
Harald
Iron Priest with TW Mount
Iron Priest with TW Mount
Thunderwolf x4 (SS/WC, SS/CCW, PF, BP/CCW)
Drop Pod
1850

My list for a one day bao style tourney.

I assume the HF rets are in the drop pod? How effective are you finding that as they're coming down turn 1, it doesn't give you much time to pod transports to get the the infantry inside and make them crispy.

Also, there doesn't appear to be any SW troops? How's that?

D

1) Space Wolves can buy drop pods as a fast attack choice.

2) Champions Of Fenris has its own unique force organisation chart where the compulsories are elites, not troops.

 evildrcheese wrote:

 pretre wrote:
SOB CAD
St Celestine
Priest
BSS (5) with Flamer/Melta in Repressor
BSS (5) with Flamer/Melta in Repressor
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in Repressor
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in Repressor
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors (5) with 4 heavy flamer and combi

COF Detachment
Harald
Iron Priest with TW Mount
Iron Priest with TW Mount
Thunderwolf x4 (SS/WC, SS/CCW, PF, BP/CCW)
Drop Pod
1850

My list for a one day bao style tourney.

I assume the HF rets are in the drop pod? How effective are you finding that as they're coming down turn 1, it doesn't give you much time to pod transports to get the the infantry inside and make them crispy.

Also, there doesn't appear to be any SW troops? How's that?

D

Harald makes Cavalry into Troops. (I thought? )

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
As I was looking for other changes, I didn't realize until just now that the Hospitaller and Dialogus are no longer mandatory for the Command Squad (if you're taking a Canoness anyway). As I also read it, I can equip all 5 of the Celestians of the Command Squad with special weapons. For about the same points (not counting the points spend on the Canoness), I could get essentially another Dominion squad that doesn't have Scout. This has given me cause to look at taking the Command Squad again.

Doesn't have scout and doesn't have the ignores cover act of faith. So... not really another dominion squad.I

For 150 points (again not including the Canoness) I get 5 Flamers in an Immolator. 155 points gets me 4 Flamers and a Combi-Flamer also in an Immolator. Sure the Dominions have Scout, but if taking Flamers the AoF is a wash.

I'm not saying the Command Squad is a replacement for Dominions at all (far from it). But if you are already taking a Canoness as an HQ and have already maxed out your FA slots, the Command Squad can act like a 4th "poor man's" Dominion Squad in the sense that they can take 5 Specials and a DT.

I know I have previously dismissed the Command Squad as wasted points, but I am rethinking that position given my new understanding of what the squad can take.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
1850 MSU List Utilizing Command Squads

Spoiler:

HQ:
Canoness, Combi-Melta 75
Canoness, Combi-Flamer 75

SCS, 5 x Celestians, 5 x Meltaguns, Immolator 175
SCS, 5 x Celestians, 5 x Flamers, Immolator 150

Troops:
BSS, 2 x Flamers, Combi-Flamer, Immolator 140
BSS, 2 x Flamers, Combi-Flamer, Immolator 140
BSS, 2 x Flamers, Combi-Flamer, Immolator 140

FA:
Doms, 4 x Meltaguns, Combi-Melta, Immolator 175
Doms, 4 x Meltaguns, Combi-Melta, Immolator 175
Doms, 4 x Meltaguns, Combi-Melta, Immolator 175

HS:
Exorcist 125
Exorcist 125
Exorcist 125

Comes in at 1795 as is. Could switch out to Rhinos for some. Could drop Combi's to get another BSS in Immolator. Could upgrade to some Vet Superiors. Could change some weapon load-outs, add upgrades, trick out a Canoness (or both!).

A good use for the 5 Special Weapons on the Command Squad is 5 Heavy bolters. Replaces the Retributors, you get 1 extra gun but no rending. Most importantly you have a spare Slot for another Exorcist. So overall, if you want to go to a more "shooty" Tau-Style, you can have a lot of Heavy Bolters and Exorcists in a standard CAD. Extra Canoness not really useful then, though.

 evildrcheese wrote:
I assume the HF rets are in the drop pod? How effective are you finding that as they're coming down turn 1, it doesn't give you much time to pod transports to get the the infantry inside and make them crispy.

Also, there doesn't appear to be any SW troops? How's that?

D

Someone else covered the troops bit. CoF detachment requires two elites (the iron priests) and an HQ (Harald).

Rets are not going to be great against a full mech force, but anything with elite infantry on the field (Cent Star) or hordes (orks, guard) are going to be unhappy to see them. Add to that the dual Dominions and if I get first turn, things are going to go poorly for my opponent.

 BlackTalos wrote:
A good use for the 5 Special Weapons on the Command Squad is 5 Heavy bolters. Replaces the Retributors, you get 1 extra gun but no rending. Most importantly you have a spare Slot for another Exorcist. So overall, if you want to go to a more "shooty" Tau-Style, you can have a lot of Heavy Bolters and Exorcists in a standard CAD. Extra Canoness not really useful then, though.

I've used my command squad as all HB before too, also done up with 4 HB and a hospitaller, makes for a good camping unit that's tough to shift. Only downsides if I remember correctly is that the CS is more expensive than a ret squad per model, and their act of faith doesn't help out the HB at all. It does however free up a HS slot and that may be worth the two downsides in and of itself.

And you have to take a Canoness...

I'm liking the fact that celestine gets T5 and scout.

 deviantduck wrote:
I'm liking the fact that celestine gets T5 and scout.

Say what now?

I think he was referring to my idea of attaching her to a space marine scout bike squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So far it's the only unit I can think of that I can attach her to and be able to scout more than 6". (I think Khan would have to be my warlord to make regular bikers scout).

 pretre wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
I'm liking the fact that celestine gets T5 and scout.

Say what now?

I misread. I thought TWC had scout.

 pretre wrote:
And you have to take a Canoness...

That's ok, I'm not a fan of most named characters, regardless of rules if I don't like the character I won't field it. I don't have a Celestine model so I won't field her and honestly I can't stand Jacobus, the crazy old coot. To be honest I quite like my canoness and she's pulled her weight for me on almost every match I've played as SoB. One day I may make a female priest that looks kool to field as a counts as: Jacobus and I'm sure I'll eventually get a Celestine model but until then I'm more than happy to field my canoness. And before anyone brings it up, I'm not a competitive player and I don't do torunaments (I live way too far away from any major city centre that hosts any to make it to one). I play for fun and beers with friends. I may have just invalidated my argument for the canoness in that last sentence but oh well

I don't think a Canoness is a bad model at all - in fact an Eviscerator/Rosarius/Mantle of Ophelia Canoness is my go-to HQ. Celestine is great, I'm not arguing that, however she has a huge downside in that she's a T3 model without Eternal Warrior. She's truly excellent at cutting through 3+ or worse models, but against S6 AP2 or higher she's in real trouble.

A Canoness on the other is capable of taking on Monstrous Creatures and TEQs. Mind you I always run her with 2 Priests with Litanies and a Celestian Squad for majority WS4. With Priests allowing re-rolls of saving throws, they become surprisingly resilient. A Rerollable 4+ is right between a 2+ and 3+ in terms of survivability. I've taken that squad up against a Hive Tyrant and Carnifex at the same time in CC and come out victorious. I've held out against an Iron Arm'd Demon Prince of Tzeentch who had the 4+ FNP Greater Demonic Reward for 3 rounds and was on the verge of killing it (Demon Prince was down to 1 wound, Canoness was the sole surviving member of the unit with 2 wounds left when the game ended). I tarpitted the hell out of Draigo + Paladins one game on those re-rollable 4+ invluns too.

I'm a big fan of making sure to cover all my bases in an army list. I don't like being without a unit that can handle itself in CC. The Canoness + Priests + Celestians can handle that

For the same points, couldn't you use Jacobus and a battle conclave and get better results?

Probably, but I don't have any Death Cult Assassins. Plus I really like my Canoness Model lol. Though if I was going to field DCA, I'd be more inclined to field them from Codex: Inquisition for Land Raider dedicated transport + Inquisitor shenanigans.

Besides I've found opponents don't really give much attention to my Canoness/Celestian/Priest squad because they don't think much of it. Certainly it doesn't seem that impressive on paper, because it's the War Hymns that give the real power and make the Celestians half-way decent. If I threw down 7 dual wielding power-sword ladies who attack at I6 then I reckon an opponent is far more likely to gak a brick and focus some fire on them.

 pretre wrote:
For the same points, couldn't you use Jacobus and a battle conclave and get better results?

Not against 2+ saves, but against most other things, yes.

 deviantduck wrote:
Anyone else going to represent the Adepta Sororitas at the LVO with me? (And/Or piss away $75 to FMC and wave serpent spam)

If I go to the LVO I'll probably some form of Sisters. I'm not sure if it will be Sisters/Inquisition or Sisters/Some form of marines.

I always run Saint. with a squad Seraphim normally with an upgraded superior with 1x hand flamers and 1x inferno Pistols. Something about the possibility of 9 wounds from Wall of Death on the charge keeps them at bay.
Then a run a mix of melta's and flamers on battle sisters with immolator's.
With 3x Exorcist's heavy support.


Tactics are pretty simple I use the saint and her squad as bait. I hit and run in and out of combat till they start dealing with them. Exorcist's remove all the fast/ heavy units then start working on the troops. Worst thing I see is Terms deep striking to the Exorcist's, so I try and hug something that they can mishap by and stay on the board edge's.
About turn 3, I start unloading the Battle sisters to contest or jump on the objectives. By then I have them easy enough to deal with the 6 sisters and the immolator's to take over enough objectives for the win. Also I set the objectives out in the open a lot hehe. Nothing like a 10 man troop squad getting eaten with no cover by ap1.

Mavnas wrote:

 pretre wrote:
For the same points, couldn't you use Jacobus and a battle conclave and get better results?

Not against 2+ saves, but against most other things, yes.

priests can et eviscerators and smash. So yeah...

 pretre wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

 pretre wrote:
For the same points, couldn't you use Jacobus and a battle conclave and get better results?

Not against 2+ saves, but against most other things, yes.

priests can et eviscerators and smash. So yeah...

Yeah, but you can stick those in either unit I mean, if you really wanted you could make a 5 priest unit with maces and one of them taking the book instead. It'd be pretty deadly if they didn't die before I3 came up. The cannoness is going to be our best character in a challenge though. Celestine has never done well for me against anything with a 2+ save.

Yeah with sufficient priests in a unit there's almost nothing you can't handle in CC.

D

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
A good use for the 5 Special Weapons on the Command Squad is 5 Heavy bolters. Replaces the Retributors, you get 1 extra gun but no rending. Most importantly you have a spare Slot for another Exorcist. So overall, if you want to go to a more "shooty" Tau-Style, you can have a lot of Heavy Bolters and Exorcists in a standard CAD. Extra Canoness not really useful then, though.

I've used my command squad as all HB before too, also done up with 4 HB and a hospitaller, makes for a good camping unit that's tough to shift. Only downsides if I remember correctly is that the CS is more expensive than a ret squad per model, and their act of faith doesn't help out the HB at all. It does however free up a HS slot and that may be worth the two downsides in and of itself.

Never took the Hospitaller, there's enough S6 weapons trying to dislodge you and the 5th HB often made the difference. Most S5 or Below weapons just would not approach you anyway, as they are very area denying with 15 Shots at anything close lol.

Price per model is very close especially if you count the 5th HBolter (price up 4 CS squads against 5 Retributor Squads) but it's mainly the Free Heavy Support Slot which is the biggest reason for the swap.

I'd really really like it if they somehow made the celestians power "Any phase" rather than Assault Only. Heavy Bolter Command Squads would almost be a must take...

I think the hospitaller is most useful in a unit that you attach some ICs to and go charging things. Most of the incoming hits will be less than S6, but at that point you're dictating what units are hitting you.

Mavnas wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

 pretre wrote:
For the same points, couldn't you use Jacobus and a battle conclave and get better results?

Not against 2+ saves, but against most other things, yes.

priests can et eviscerators and smash. So yeah...

Yeah, but you can stick those in either unit I mean, if you really wanted you could make a 5 priest unit with maces and one of them taking the book instead. It'd be pretty deadly if they didn't die before I3 came up. The cannoness is going to be our best character in a challenge though. Celestine has never done well for me against anything with a 2+ save.

But for less points, you can take a priest with rosarius and eviscerator and get the same performance (except EW). I just don't think taking her just for challenges is a good idea. Even Celestine with rerolls is better.

I run a Canoness, either with the above build, or with Rosarius + 2x Inferno Pistol.

 pretre wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

 pretre wrote:
For the same points, couldn't you use Jacobus and a battle conclave and get better results?

Not against 2+ saves, but against most other things, yes.

priests can et eviscerators and smash. So yeah...

Yeah, but you can stick those in either unit I mean, if you really wanted you could make a 5 priest unit with maces and one of them taking the book instead. It'd be pretty deadly if they didn't die before I3 came up. The cannoness is going to be our best character in a challenge though. Celestine has never done well for me against anything with a 2+ save.

But for less points, you can take a priest with rosarius and eviscerator and get the same performance (except EW). I just don't think taking her just for challenges is a good idea. Even Celestine with rerolls is better.

The trouble with a priest with an eviscerator in a battle conclave is that you can't protect him from challenges without sacrificing another priest. Reroll able 4++ is nice, but still 25% chance to die before swinging. I wouldn't put that guy in a challenge against a normal MEQ sgt if I could help it. Too many points on a single wound. The canonness can take an average of 27 non-AP 3 wounds. The priest takes 4.

Yeah, hence why I fell back on Celestine. I want to say (and I don't feel like doing the math right now) that celestine is still better against 2+ armor than an evis canoness, but I'm probably wrong.

Could be fun

 pretre wrote:
Yeah, hence why I fell back on Celestine. I want to say (and I don't feel like doing the math right now) that celestine is still better against 2+ armor than an evis canoness, but I'm probably wrong.

Horribly so. The Canoness has better AP and higher S. That AP makes her 2-6 times as good per attack against 2+.

vs Terminators:

Canoness w/ Eviscerator: 3 Attacks at WS5 S6, 3+ To Hit, 2+ Wound, Termies get 5+ Invul = 1.11 Unsaved Wounds.

Celestine: 5 Attacks at WS7 S5, 3+ To Hit, 3+ to Wound, Termies get 2+ Armour = 0.37 Unsaved Wounds.

Celestine is at her best murdering MEQ or ICs with a 3+. The canonness is built to fight the enemy's big bad beatstick..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The more I think about it, the less I can think of a unit that could hold its own against a Cannoness and battle conclave at similar points cost.

So a little less than 3 times. Also doesn't take into account rerolls. Either way, I'll stick with Celestine. I have plenty of other things to deal with 2 plus. Celestine's mobility, solid trait and hit and run more than make up for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Re units that hold up against conclave and canoness, I would imagine volume units would do well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, dreads and knights.

I love Celestine and never leave home without her

She is a solid character that murders anything with a 3+ or less save. I love challenging out powerfist Sargents either way my opponent is screwed . She also murders marine bike squads with her mobility and str 5 pw.

 pretre wrote:
So a little less than 3 times. Also doesn't take into account rerolls. Either way, I'll stick with Celestine. I have plenty of other things to deal with 2 plus. Celestine's mobility, solid trait and hit and run more than make up for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Re units that hold up against conclave and canoness, I would imagine volume units would do well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, dreads and knights.

Well, 6 DCAs would get 24 attacks on the charge. If you toss in a couple priests, you get to reroll to hit, to wound, and saves. You would almost certainly sweep any non-fearless blob unit. Heck, if you got the charge against a pimped out Chapter Master and command squad with storm shields, you would probably be cursing the fact that ATSKNF is preventing you from sweeping him off the board.

Knights are of course going to do bad things to your Battle Conclave unless the priests have melta bombs... in which case you'll probably do nasty things to eachother. I seem to remember running the math last edition and deciding that in melee a 10 sister BSS with a priest with 2 total melta bombs should be able to take a knight assuming they made it into melee intact (which they might if you presented the knight with other scarier targets). I think the changes to the damage table skew that math a bit, but I could see a Cannoness + 2 priests all with melta bombs not having that much trouble with the knight unless bad rolls were made. You'd probably get a lot of your DCAs stomped on though.

But Celestine won't be any better against either of those either. I love her and take her as my warlord, but there's definitely a gap in terms of units that can go toe to toe with a melee death star and I have a tendency to lose her to the first bunch of S6 attacks that come in. (I guess she would be pretty broken if her toughness was higher.) I'm actually really looking forward to the BA book. I'm hoping they will have FA drop pods and more jetpack things that could keep up with Celestine. Realistically though, at the speed I paint, I would need to guess what will be awesome in 8th edition and get started now lol.

Celestine vs Chapter Master Smash*****
0.1646 wounds per round
-(5 attacks * (2/3 chance of hitting +* 1/3 chance needing MC * 2/3 chance of hitting)) * 1/2 chance of wounding * 1/6 chance of failing 2+ * 2/3 chance of failing FNP (Gorgon's chain adds +1) * 2/3 chance of failing IWND

Canoness w/ Eviscerator vs Smash*****
0.1491 wounds per round
-(3 attacks base * 1/2 chance of hitting) * 2/3 chance of wounding * 1/3 chance of failing 3++ * 2/3 chance of failing FNP * 2/3 chance of failing IWND

Iron Hands Chapter Master vs Celestine
.8333 wounds per round (or 83% chance of killing Celestine the first time) using a Thunder Hammer
-(4 attacks base * 1/2 chance of hittin) * 5/6 chance of wounding * 1/2 chance of failing 4++

Chapter Master vs Canoness
1.1852 wounds per round with Lightning Claw
-(4 attacks base * 2/3 chance of hitting) * (2/3 chance of wounding + 1/3 chance needing shred re-roll * 2/3 chance of wounding) * 1/2 chance of failing 4++

1.11 wounds per round with Thunder Hammer
-As above, except wounding chance is 5/6 instead of 7/9

Yeah, except the canoness has no reason not to have priests backing her up, whereas Celestine would not give up the mobility.

I guess really, I'd be counting on the canoness to be running with a supporting squad capable of wiping out Chapter Master Smash's squad easily, while Celestine would most likely be with Seraphim. Her job then would be to survive until wounds start spilling in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Consider a squad of 2 priests, one with book so they can activate hymns without chancing a roll, 6 DCAs, 4 crusaders (So 215 point squad, not a fair comparison to Celestine, but cheaper than a fully upgraded command squad for the CM or roughly equivalent to a command squad with grav guns or only shields.)

If the Sisters charge, 24 attacks * 8/9 hit * 5/9 wound * 1/3 save * 2/3 chance of failing FNP (assuming an apothecary there) = 2.66 dead bikers if they have shields, squad wiped out and wounds spilling into the challenge or into ICs attached to the squad otherwise. 2.33 marines attack back for 7 attacks * 1/2 hit * 5/6 wound (let's assume any melee weapon upgrade) * 1/9 fail saves = .32 dead crusaders. Priests and crusaders swing 11-12 times * 3/4 hit * 11/36 wound * 1/3 fail saves * 2/3 fail FNP = about .55 more.

So before the challenge happens at I1, there should be about 3 dead marines, with some chance the apothecary is one of them (priests have precision strikes). The part where the canoness shines is staying alive until your squad kills the enemy squad and with wounds spilling into challenges in 7th...

Non charge:

DCA 3 * 1/2 * 5/9 * 1/6 * 2/3 = about .1 wound

Multiply that by 6, add in the the priests + crusaders for another 11-12 attacks at about half that chance to wound and the squad is stripping off about a wound a turn.

Really what you need is a third priest with a mace. He'd have 3 * 1/2 * 3/4 * 1/3 * 2/3 = .25 wounds (Not great, but if we're assuming a gorgon chain he gets to swing after everyone else has had a chance to strip off wounds so he might have an easier time of it.)

The canoness is taking only half a wound with the rerollable 4++, which gives you an average of 6 rounds to break the CM's defenses, which should be enough.

Actually... as long as you've placed a crusader in base contact with the CM you could just decline the challenge and have him put wounds into rerollable 3++.

Unsupported the canoness doesn't have a chance to shine against the CM, but the main thing the canoness does is buy you time to have a battle conclave cut through things. Celestine and her typical squad will be cheaper and way more mobile. I feel like trying to compare the two is like trying to compare a dominion squad to Celestine's Seraphim squad. Totally different roles even if they compete for slots.

Actually, I can very much see Celestine in a blob squad with multiple Priests and Uriah Jacobus, tanking wounds as they march down field. It's not ideal but it's certainly viable.

The problem with Celestine is S6 and up insta kills her. This makes it hard to fight challenges against the toughest characters or advance slowly up the field not using terrain and her jump pack. With a small squad and the ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound, she can work wonders. Tie her to some infantry and her squishiness becomes more of a thing.

I have been considering Uriah in a 10 Seraphim squad though. Rerollable 5++ all the time would be pretty nice, but Celestine's trait is really growing on me. (When I was only playing 500 point games with Sisters, there was never a squad close enough to Celestine that she wasn't already attached to.)

Taikishi wrote:
Actually, I can very much see Celestine in a blob squad with multiple Priests and Uriah Jacobus, tanking wounds as they march down field. It's not ideal but it's certainly viable.

You missed my post:

 BlackTalos wrote:
As a side note to using Celestine in the 21+ blob with Jacobus and company, in a recent League game at 2000 points she Tanked all 17 Wounds from a SM Fellblade (the AP3 7" Blast) quite happily loosing no Wounds...

Would add that was his Turn 1 Shooting. She took another 3 or 6 Turn two, vague memory now... But definitely made all of those 2+ Saves! lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think she died Turn 3 to his Fellblade Alternate Fire, but that was the turn i charged his main Grav Centurion+Libby+Tigurus in the middle of the board over the Relic.

They won that combat (Celestine reviving and charging back in helped) as the Centurions had been slightly weakened by Exorcsist fire.

Outflanking Doms had a really bad throw at the Fellblade though... But Won because i was walking away with the Relic =P

You're also missing the idea that Celestine has Hit and Run as well. So you can't lock that squad down. Canoness is stuck until she or her opponent dies.

I didn't miss it, BlackTalos. I also neglected to include acts of faith in my probabilities, but that leads me to this question:

Am I better using a Seraphim squad's Shred AoF during the shooting phase to soften up the squad I'm about to assault and for less overwatch shots, or should I use it during the assault itself? Celestine + a squad of Seraphim with four hand flamers (two models x two hand flamers) leads me to think I'm better off using it during the shooting phase because of the templates and gunfighter rules but I'm not as certain.

Did any of the above math take into account Celestine's weapon is master crafted?

Also, terminators aren't for stabbing, they are for Exorcising.

 deviantduck wrote:
Also, terminators aren't for stabbing, they are for Exorcising.

That was my point.

Mine did, but also included no charges on either side, no Acts of Faith, and no support from attached units.

Taikishi wrote:
I didn't miss it, BlackTalos. I also neglected to include acts of faith in my probabilities, but that leads me to this question:

Am I better using a Seraphim squad's Shred AoF during the shooting phase to soften up the squad I'm about to assault and for less overwatch shots, or should I use it during the assault itself? Celestine + a squad of Seraphim with four hand flamers (two models x two hand flamers) leads me to think I'm better off using it during the shooting phase because of the templates and gunfighter rules but I'm not as certain.

Definitely use it during the shooting phase. The Shred USR works really well on weapons that throw lots of hits out, which Flamers most certainly do. With 4 Hand Flamer Templates, plus Celestine's own Heavy Flamer Template, its not uncommon to be throwing out 25+ hits (even if you can only cover 4 models with each template, that's still 20 hits and then the other Seraphim effectively get to 'rapid fire' their two bolt pistols). Being able to re-roll all those wounds is gravy.

Of course if you've ended up in combat without a chance to use the AoF before hand, it's possibly not a bad idea. Seraphim are WS4 with 2 attacks in CC (since two Bolt Pistols = two Close Combat Weapons = +1 Attack), so they're not entirely terrible. Better to at least get some use out of the AoF rather than having the unit die without using it.

Except... you can't use the Seraphim's act of faith (shred) in the assault phase. It's shooting phase only.

oh lol, you're right. I was always thinking it was like Battle Sister squads, who can use theirs in either Shooting or Assault.

Oops! Somehow I missed the part that it was only shooting phase.

Nothing to see here...

Taikishi wrote:
Oops! Somehow I missed the part that it was only shooting phase.

Nothing to see here...

Even if there was such a choice, i would always recommend it for the Hand flamers shooting. Deep Striking Terminators especially love Celestine and the 4 Hand flamers.

An opponent of mine, wise to the method, elected to Run with shooty Terminators (DA too, so with TL) rather than stay in the perfect circle and roll 25+ dice and hope not to see 1s...

Yeah. I caught 10 cultists and a chaos sorc bunched up closely. Yet again, flamers were fired and Celestine failed to make the charge (typically in every game where I use flamers I fail at least one charge), but this time it was OK because the Handflamers had wiped out the whole unit before the other weapons in the squad had a chance to fire.

Indeed. Not much survives a seraphim pistol party.

Don't be fooled by the jump packs and paired weapons - that may be the mark of an assault unit in other armies, but seraphim are unashamedly a shooting unit. Paired with Celestine, they're superb - she gives them fearless, they give her Hit & Run, she lets them use her initiative for the check and throws and extra heavy flamer into the mix. Hold the squad in the middle of your lines to use celestine's warlord trait, then jump forwards and incinerate something.

You want melee troops, either get celestians or (better) forgo a purely sororitas force and get a battle conclave.

That doesn't mean 'don't charge' - after all, if the enemy's still there (albeit a bit crispy) then charging into them is probably safer than standing around to be shot in the following turn. But seraphim are all about firepower.

I've got a 1500 point game against nurgle daemons tomorrow, and have a list written up, but I wouldn't mind getting people's opinions on what they'd use/suggestions on what would be good.

I can field just about anything, with the exception of Exorcists.

locarno24 wrote:
You want melee troops, either get celestians or (better) forgo a purely sororitas force and get a battle conclave.

Or Sister Repentia in a Land Raider =D

locarno24 wrote:
Indeed. Not much survives a seraphim pistol party.

Don't be fooled by the jump packs and paired weapons - that may be the mark of an assault unit in other armies, but seraphim are unashamedly a shooting unit. Paired with Celestine, they're superb - she gives them fearless, they give her Hit & Run, she lets them use her initiative for the check and throws and extra heavy flamer into the mix. Hold the squad in the middle of your lines to use celestine's warlord trait, then jump forwards and incinerate something.

Celestine has Hit and Run.

The seraphim give her someone to LoS! high str shots to. With rerollable 6++, they're not terrible at taking low AP fire having about half a chance of surving (between the rollable 6++ and the enemy rolling a 1 to wound) any shot without cover.

St. Celestine has hit and run on her own.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
I've got a 1500 point game against nurgle daemons tomorrow, and have a list written up, but I wouldn't mind getting people's opinions on what they'd use/suggestions on what would be good.

I can field just about anything, with the exception of Exorcists.

How can you not have exorcists? They're our bread and butter.

Also, ninja'd on the hit and run by a day. apparently there's a page 109.

 deviantduck wrote:
St. Celestine has hit and run on her own.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
I've got a 1500 point game against nurgle daemons tomorrow, and have a list written up, but I wouldn't mind getting people's opinions on what they'd use/suggestions on what would be good.

I can field just about anything, with the exception of Exorcists.

How can you not have exorcists? They're our bread and butter.

Also, ninja'd on the hit and run by a day. apparently there's a page 109.

Australian prices, for one, and the fact that I like to play as far forwards as possible. I run Rets with heavy bolters, but they'll push forward into a ruin before they start killing. Personal preference. I love the model, and one day I'll own 3, but not right now.

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
St. Celestine has hit and run on her own.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
I've got a 1500 point game against nurgle daemons tomorrow, and have a list written up, but I wouldn't mind getting people's opinions on what they'd use/suggestions on what would be good.

I can field just about anything, with the exception of Exorcists.

How can you not have exorcists? They're our bread and butter.

Also, ninja'd on the hit and run by a day. apparently there's a page 109.

Australian prices, for one, and the fact that I like to play as far forwards as possible. I run Rets with heavy bolters, but they'll push forward into a ruin before they start killing. Personal preference. I love the model, and one day I'll own 3, but not right now.

As much as i'd recommend the Real model at least once, I would highly suggest converting the model. Also personal preference (real missiles rather than some weird music organ ) but you'd get the firepower any Sisters of Battle force lacks without them.
It really is because you haven't got any and haven't played them yet. I'm quite sure that your first game at 1000pts or 1500 with 2 Exorcists will make you never leave them behind in your list building!

Also one of the few "Heavy support" tanks that can move 6" (and push forward if you want them to) and fire at full effectiveness.

I was anti-shooty organ for a while and had my own conversions (since before they made exorcists) but finally broke like 3 or 4 years ago and got 3.

Mavnas wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
Indeed. Not much survives a seraphim pistol party.

Don't be fooled by the jump packs and paired weapons - that may be the mark of an assault unit in other armies, but seraphim are unashamedly a shooting unit. Paired with Celestine, they're superb - she gives them fearless, they give her Hit & Run, she lets them use her initiative for the check and throws and extra heavy flamer into the mix. Hold the squad in the middle of your lines to use celestine's warlord trait, then jump forwards and incinerate something.

Celestine has Hit and Run.

The seraphim give her someone to LoS! high str shots to. With rerollable 6++, they're not terrible at taking low AP fire having about half a chance of surving (between the rollable 6++ and the enemy rolling a 1 to wound) any shot without cover.

They give her Shred via AoF and LoS, that's pretty much it. But what Celestine brings to them is what makes the combination so good.

And ablative wounds for S6+

Say what you will regarding the Organ Exorcist aesthetic, but when it lines up across from the enemy... it always intimidates.

At first I didn't like them, but it totally fits who the Sisters are and I wouldn't field them any other way...

BTW, the Sisters are awesome! What other thread is 109 pages long?!?!?

My big concern with them is that they are even more random and I am bad at rolling dice. The heavy bolter rets help with anti-horde in a way the rest of my army is mostly lacking and they have generally done well with rending things. (I wouldn't take HB without at least a turn if rending)

They're random, but that works for you as well. Two Exos and a Ret HB Bastion is a good mix.

Maybe it's just me, but T5+ seems to be a problem for the army. Especially if they manage to get into close combat with you.

It was a stretch for me to do so, but I played 2000 points against Orks two weeks ago. He fielded a Warboss in a Nob bike squad along with a Pain boy and then a squad of 5 Deffkoptas. By the end of the game I had taken out 1 Deffkopta, his Pain Boy, and his Warboss from those squads. I benefited from most of the rest of his army being in Trukks and going first as I popped three of his four of his Trukks with my Immolators, but the game went downhill fast after that. Granted, on his first turn my 10-figure Heavy Bolter Retributor squad was shot at by 12 Deffguns plus a Rokkit from an 'Ardboyz squad, lost exactly 3 Sisters, and promptly broke and ran off the table without ever getting to use their act of faith. >.>

High toughness is not usually a problem. Exorcists and Melta handle that pretty well.

Which is part of my problem - I'm lacking in melta at the moment because I simply looked for cheap eBay auctions to get back into the game after having not played since 3rd and having sold my Blood Angels army.

He allowed me to proxy two 5-figure Melta-minion squads (one actually consisting of four flamers and a Superior, the other four Bolters and a superior), but s8 no longer insta-kills T5, 2 wounds. And I chose his Bike Squad as the target for one squad (the other was on the opposite flank). The wounds that did get through he saved with FNP from his Pain Boy.

Mavnas wrote:
My big concern with them is that they are even more random and I am bad at rolling dice. The heavy bolter rets help with anti-horde in a way the rest of my army is mostly lacking and they have generally done well with rending things. (I wouldn't take HB without at least a turn if rending)

Yes, they are random. But, when fielded in threes and spread out over 4-5 games turns, it tends to average itself out.

Comparing them to HB Rets for anti-horde is not a fair comparison. Exorcists are str 8 AP 1. They are for breaking vehicles, wounding MCs, and wiping out swathes of terminators (when people used to run terminators).

And, if you want to talk about disappointment, lets talk about rending. THAT is always a huge disappointment. People clamor on the internet about how great rending HB Rets are (or were before the new AoF system). I have found them to be less than satisfying.
You get one, maybe two, turns per game, where you get 12 shots (assuming your bolters are out of range) that hit on 3's (8 hits) and rend on 6's (1 maybe 2). So, two rending shots per game versus an average of 3 AP 1 shots per turn. Even if you add 6 bolters (12 more shots), you are only picking up 1-2 more rends. I will take an exorcist any day of the week.

I've gotten first blood off a wraith lord my opponent foolishly left out of cover with a single HB squad. They've been my most consistent performers so far. They're also better at shooting things with good invuln/cover saves that my other squads can't break through. I really wish I could get more than two turns of rending, but many games I don't need that.

I think I'd take exorcists more if I ever do bring the drop pod allies list simply because they'd be more likely to still be on the board if I go second and they're the only thing the enemy can shoot at.

Or maybe I'm rationalizing so I don't have to paint more vehicles as they take me forever. You can see my immolator in my gallery, that thing took months :(

 Green is Best! wrote:
You get one, maybe two, turns per game, where you get 12 shots (assuming your bolters are out of range) that hit on 3's (8 hits) and rend on 6's (1 maybe 2). So, two rending shots per game versus an average of 3 AP 1 shots per turn. Even if you add 6 bolters (12 more shots), you are only picking up 1-2 more rends. I will take an exorcist any day of the week.

Only 12 shots? Try 15-18. Bastion with Ammo Dump ftw.

Don't get me wrong, RETs have their uses and are a great unit. However, I have also found myself expecting their rending to do a lot more than it really does.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Don't get me wrong, RETs have their uses and are a great unit. However, I have also found myself expecting their rending to do a lot more than it really does.

Their benefit over Exos is that they can consistently pump out anti-infantry fire, with the occasional rending shooting. They are certainly not a serious anti-armor choice. Not when compared to Exos.

How about quadruple heavy flamer Retributors? I know they're not the legendary easy bake oven of old, but has anyone tried them in 7E?

I might try them in a SW pod. I think being able to deep strike them in, disembark 6" for optimal placement, then bake a unit might be a thing. Or even just having them in reserve will make the opponent hesitant to clump up in cover making it easier for me to catch things out in the open.

 SisterSydney wrote:
How about quadruple heavy flamer Retributors? I know they're not the legendary easy bake oven of old, but has anyone tried them in 7E?

I have been messing with them in 2 different ways.
1) with issodon to infiltrate the unit inside a repressor or immolator (in which case they have to disembark to flame). I usually have 3 dom units scout forward and 3 infiltrated units (2-3 of the HF rets) all in my opponents face. It is a truly devastating alpha strike and can almost finish a fight turn 1.
2) allied to SW for a drop pod. They drop in, disembark, and flame something. Again pretty good when combined with a general drop pod assault.

The great part about rending HF is that combined with the usual vehicle killer spam that the rest of my army is (immolators, exorcists, and doms) they sweep infantry away like flammable garbage, even 3+ Sv SM in ruins will usually have most of the unit decimated.