rtb02 wrote: Faq says any teleporting or equivalent is turn 2 earliest or own deployment zone T1.
Can't see Ork teleporting being any different.
Well, yes, but the Ork Codex is more recent that the big FAQ and therefore supercedes it. The stratagem doesn't say anywhere that if you deepstrike T1 it has to be in your own deployment zone. Pretty big chance this gets FAQ'ed of course, but as it is you can call down a Gorkanaut 9" away from your opponent and charge it in T1. Then there's of course the RAW vas. RAI debate but with a 2 CP cost that's not entirely clear-cut either.
rtb02 wrote: Faq says any teleporting or equivalent is turn 2 earliest or own deployment zone T1.
Can't see Ork teleporting being any different.
Well, yes, but the Ork Codex is more recent that the big FAQ and therefore supercedes it. The stratagem doesn't say anywhere that if you deepstrike T1 it has to be in your own deployment zone. Pretty big chance this gets FAQ'ed of course, but as it is you can call down a Gorkanaut 9" away from your opponent and charge it in T1. Then there's of course the RAW vas. RAI debate but with a 2 CP cost that's not entirely clear-cut either.
All that means is that it'll get errata'd in the 2 week ork book faq. Don't rush out and build around anything questionable until at least that one comes out.
rtb02 wrote: Faq says any teleporting or equivalent is turn 2 earliest or own deployment zone T1.
Can't see Ork teleporting being any different.
Well, yes, but the Ork Codex is more recent that the big FAQ and therefore supercedes it. The stratagem doesn't say anywhere that if you deepstrike T1 it has to be in your own deployment zone. Pretty big chance this gets FAQ'ed of course, but as it is you can call down a Gorkanaut 9" away from your opponent and charge it in T1. Then there's of course the RAW vas. RAI debate but with a 2 CP cost that's not entirely clear-cut either.
All that means is that it'll get errata'd in the 2 week ork book faq. Don't rush out and build around anything questionable until at least that one comes out.
Agreed... 'cuz that's a disgustingly powerful tactic there.
Orks' general issue is the delivery system and even I think that pendulum swung a bit too far....
TedNugent wrote: Dakka rule isn't great simply because of Ork hit rates. They only hit on 5s or 6s. So you have to hit essentially on a 6, then a 5 or a 6.
E.g. the probability of a second hit is in the single digits.
That's a lot of overcomplication in your dice rolling for a very low output. When you start putting that into practice, game after game, the annoyance of the multiple failures and additional dice rolls will substantially outweigh the successes.
rtb02 wrote: Faq says any teleporting or equivalent is turn 2 earliest or own deployment zone T1.
Can't see Ork teleporting being any different.
Huh? Da jump was already clarified to be allowed T1 and to not be limited to own deployment zone. The explicit wording of 'any movement phase' in a post FAQ world when most deep strike abilities has been 'nerfed' to T2 has to be intentional.
I'm pretty sure this is the major bone GW are throwing to Ork players. Giving them multiple gap closing abilities so that they can get stuck in before picking up ~50% of their models. Da Jump, Tellyporta stratagem, Speed Freeks movement bonuses etc.
rtb02 wrote: Faq says any teleporting or equivalent is turn 2 earliest or own deployment zone T1.
Can't see Ork teleporting being any different.
Well, yes, but the Ork Codex is more recent that the big FAQ and therefore supercedes it. The stratagem doesn't say anywhere that if you deepstrike T1 it has to be in your own deployment zone. Pretty big chance this gets FAQ'ed of course, but as it is you can call down a Gorkanaut 9" away from your opponent and charge it in T1. Then there's of course the RAW vas. RAI debate but with a 2 CP cost that's not entirely clear-cut either.
What? How does the Ork Codex supercedes a general rule from a FAQ (Tactical Reserves) even if it comes after it? They are different rules. Theres no point where one can arguee this stratagem, from RAI or RAW, allows Orks to deepstrike turn 1. The only reason the stratagem says any movement phase is because the restriction for no T1 deepstrike is for matched play, not for narrative or open.
rtb02 wrote: Faq says any teleporting or equivalent is turn 2 earliest or own deployment zone T1.
Can't see Ork teleporting being any different.
Well, yes, but the Ork Codex is more recent that the big FAQ and therefore supercedes it. The stratagem doesn't say anywhere that if you deepstrike T1 it has to be in your own deployment zone. Pretty big chance this gets FAQ'ed of course, but as it is you can call down a Gorkanaut 9" away from your opponent and charge it in T1. Then there's of course the RAW vas. RAI debate but with a 2 CP cost that's not entirely clear-cut either.
Uhhhh no.
Every other deep strike strat/ability says "any of your movement phases" and Theyre all superseded by the beta rule...
rtb02 wrote: Faq says any teleporting or equivalent is turn 2 earliest or own deployment zone T1.
Can't see Ork teleporting being any different.
Huh? Da jump was already clarified to be allowed T1 and to not be limited to own deployment zone. The explicit wording of 'any movement phase' in a post FAQ world when most deep strike abilities has been 'nerfed' to T2 has to be intentional.
I'm pretty sure this is the major bone GW are throwing to Ork players. Giving them multiple gap closing abilities so that they can get stuck in before picking up ~50% of their models. Da Jump, Tellyporta stratagem, Speed Freeks movement bonuses etc.
The same wording is used for any unit that comes in from reserves.
By your logic, I can ignore the FAQ with the Monolith, Translocation Crypt, Deathmarks and Flayed Ones.
Don't get excited about the tellyporta stratagem.
Isn't Da Jump a different case, as the unit was already on the table to begin with, and as such not coming from reserves?
rtb02 wrote: Faq says any teleporting or equivalent is turn 2 earliest or own deployment zone T1.
Can't see Ork teleporting being any different.
Huh? Da jump was already clarified to be allowed T1 and to not be limited to own deployment zone. The explicit wording of 'any movement phase' in a post FAQ world when most deep strike abilities has been 'nerfed' to T2 has to be intentional.
I'm pretty sure this is the major bone GW are throwing to Ork players. Giving them multiple gap closing abilities so that they can get stuck in before picking up ~50% of their models. Da Jump, Tellyporta stratagem, Speed Freeks movement bonuses etc.
Da Jump still works since the unit is already deployed.
Every other teleport power for deploying a unit mid-game also says "any movement phase".
The Beta FAQ rule supersedes the non-Beta Codex rule that was left that way for Open and Narrative games.
Likewise, the 10PL limit on the strategem also doesn't exempt Orks from needing 50% of their points on the board at the start of the game.
rtb02 wrote: Faq says any teleporting or equivalent is turn 2 earliest or own deployment zone T1.
Can't see Ork teleporting being any different.
Well, yes, but the Ork Codex is more recent that the big FAQ and therefore supercedes it. The stratagem doesn't say anywhere that if you deepstrike T1 it has to be in your own deployment zone. Pretty big chance this gets FAQ'ed of course, but as it is you can call down a Gorkanaut 9" away from your opponent and charge it in T1. Then there's of course the RAW vas. RAI debate but with a 2 CP cost that's not entirely clear-cut either.
What are you talking about? An Ork Codex does not supercede a FAQ that modifies the main rulebook. Also, as others have stated, none of the other stratagems say "After the first turn" because that change is in...the FAQ.
Billagio wrote: So does the Goff Kultur rule work on a Gorkanauts Smash profile? Ex. I make the 18 attacks, 3 are 6s so do I generate 3 or 9 extra attacks?
Well, it does specify hit roll, so I guess 3? What does the wording for Smash say exactly?
Sorry - I was getting confused with the FAQs had to double check. The latest wording is:
''Furthermore, in matched play games, units that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as
reinforcements cannot arrive on the battlefield during the first battle round.''
So I agree as others have pointed out that Orks will not be an exception to this. The 'Tellyporta' stratagem will be T2 onward. Still mighty strong though. Especially as Orks should have other viable T1 threats coming from Da Jump, Speed Freeks etc. The cumulative weight of T1 Da Jump unit, T1/2 Speed Freak charges, T2 Da Jumped unit and T2 Tellyporta unit will be quite something!
Billagio wrote: So does the Goff Kultur rule work on a Gorkanauts Smash profile? Ex. I make the 18 attacks, 3 are 6s so do I generate 3 or 9 extra attacks?
Well, it does specify hit roll, I guess 3?
What does the wording for Smash say exactly?
It says “ Make 3 hit rolls for each attack made with this weapon instead of 1“. So it sounds like you would get 3 attacks per 6 rolled
crzylgs wrote: Sorry - I was getting confused with the FAQs had to double check. The latest wording is:
''Furthermore, in matched play games, units that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as
reinforcements cannot arrive on the battlefield during the first battle round.''
So I agree as others have pointed out that Orks will not be an exception to this. The 'Tellyporta' stratagem will be T2 onward. Still mighty strong though. Especially as Orks should have other viable T1 threats coming from Da Jump, Speed Freeks etc. The cumulative weight of T1 Da Jump unit, T1/2 Speed Freak charges, T2 Da Jumped unit and T2 Tellyporta unit will be quite something!
Yeah, its still a good stratagem.
My other army's equivalent, Translocation Crypt, is 1CP, but it only affects Nephrekh dynasty infantry and swarm units.
There are no restrictions with the ork version, for only 1CP more. That's pretty handy.
Billagio wrote: So does the Goff Kultur rule work on a Gorkanauts Smash profile? Ex. I make the 18 attacks, 3 are 6s so do I generate 3 or 9 extra attacks?
Well, it does specify hit roll, I guess 3?
What does the wording for Smash say exactly?
It says “ Make 3 hit rolls for each attack made with this weapon instead of 1“. So it sounds like you would get 3 attacks per 6 rolled
I don't think so because the Goff trait specifically says "immediately make an additionnal hit roll" (not an additionnal attack).
crzylgs wrote: Sorry - I was getting confused with the FAQs had to double check. The latest wording is:
''Furthermore, in matched play games, units that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as
reinforcements cannot arrive on the battlefield during the first battle round.''
So I agree as others have pointed out that Orks will not be an exception to this. The 'Tellyporta' stratagem will be T2 onward. Still mighty strong though. Especially as Orks should have other viable T1 threats coming from Da Jump, Speed Freeks etc. The cumulative weight of T1 Da Jump unit, T1/2 Speed Freak charges, T2 Da Jumped unit and T2 Tellyporta unit will be quite something!
Yeah, its still a good stratagem.
My other army's equivalent, Translocation Crypt, is 1CP, but it only affects Nephrekh dynasty infantry and swarm units.
There are no restrictions with the ork version, for only 1CP more. That's pretty handy.
necrons also dont just casually get more than double the odds to get in to combat from deep strike for no CP on every unit.
Billagio wrote: So does the Goff Kultur rule work on a Gorkanauts Smash profile? Ex. I make the 18 attacks, 3 are 6s so do I generate 3 or 9 extra attacks?
Well, it does specify hit roll, I guess 3?
What does the wording for Smash say exactly?
It says “ Make 3 hit rolls for each attack made with this weapon instead of 1“. So it sounds like you would get 3 attacks per 6 rolled
Oh wow, I guess it would be. It does say using the same weapon, and the weapon makes 3 hit rolls for every one, so I guess you can get exponential attacks like that.
Billagio wrote: So does the Goff Kultur rule work on a Gorkanauts Smash profile? Ex. I make the 18 attacks, 3 are 6s so do I generate 3 or 9 extra attacks?
Well, it does specify hit roll, I guess 3?
What does the wording for Smash say exactly?
It says “ Make 3 hit rolls for each attack made with this weapon instead of 1“. So it sounds like you would get 3 attacks per 6 rolled
I don't think so because the Goff trait specifically says "immediately make an additionnal hit roll" (not an additionnal attack).
You might be right actually. Doesn’t Moartarion have similar wording on his weapon? I thought I read somewhere that he gains the extra attacks on 6s when fighting imperium.
Is a hit roll the same as an attack though from a rules standpoint? When it says attack, do they specifically mean the attack stat, or do they mean a hit roll used against an enemy unit? There's a distinction there.
You might be right actually. Doesn’t Moartarion have similar wording on his weapon? I thought I read somewhere that he gains the extra attacks on 6s when fighting imperium.
From the Death Guard FAQ:
Q: If Mortarion gets to make an extra attack with Silence due to the Death to the False Emperor ability and I choose to make it with the reaping scythe profile, do I roll 1 hit roll or 3? A: 3.
So, the real question is, what about Void Shields? (Kidding, this forum has more African Swallow arguments than anywhere else on the internet.)
No, the real question is, how long until someone has the codex in their hand and can leak the point costs? I've been modeling and painting like mad the last couple of weeks, and now all my vehicles are done. I've still got some Grots, Tankbustas, Stormboyz, and Meganobz to finish before my (2) Speed Freek boxes arrive on Saturday. The stress is killing me, what do I paint next?
Bit more chuffing regarding the Tellyporta stratagem.
The part that seems a little ambiguous in terms of RAW v RAI is when used on a Transport and the 20PL limit. They probably intend 'transport + contents = 20PL or less.' But as written it does not seem to account for the contents, only the 'unit' that is Tellyported. You could easily exceed 20PL with a BW + Characters + Megaz / Nobz / Gitz.
However, having anything CC orientated embarked would be far from ideal as they would only be arriving T2 (after movement), so not able to get out to do anything until T3.
Have you guys seen this? Kirioth keeps 'em coming!
Edit: Aaaaaaaand it's pretty similar to the forgeshrine... SKIP! Cool model though, not worth 80 points even if it also has that 50% chance to do d3 mortal wounds
You might be right actually. Doesn’t Moartarion have similar wording on his weapon? I thought I read somewhere that he gains the extra attacks on 6s when fighting imperium.
From the Death Guard FAQ:
Q: If Mortarion gets to make an extra attack with Silence due to the Death to the False Emperor ability and I choose to make it with the reaping scythe profile, do I roll 1 hit roll or 3?
A: 3.
Aaaaaaaand Kirioth has leaked the rules for the mek workshop.
Spoiler alert: the rules for the Sacristan Forgeshrine proved such a HUGE HIT and EVERYONE LOVED THEM for how AWESOMELY FUNCTIONAL they were, that GW decided to re-release the forgeshrine but for orks.
4PL/80pts
Once this model is down on the board, it is a piece of terrain and cannot be destroyed or moved, and doesn't count as a friendly or enemy model.
Grabbin Klaw: in the fight phase, before any units fight, choose one of your Ork units within 1" of the workshop to operate the Grabbin' Klaw. Choose an enemy unit within 1" of the workshop, on a 4+ it suffers D3 mortal wounds.
Kustom Job: At the end of your movement phase, select one vehicle model within 1" of the mek workshop to receive a kustom job. That model can't shoot or charge and its attacks are reduced to 1 until the end of the turn.
1: more speed. Add 6" to the Move of the unit the next time it moves. Also, roll a D6. If you roll a 6, add D6" to the unit's Move permanently.
2: more rivets. Regenerate D3 wounds. If a mek is nearby it may oversee the repair, causing it to heal 3 wounds, but the mek or big mek cannot use its normal Repair ability that turn. Additionall roll a d6, on a 6 permanently add 1 to the vehicles toughness.
3: More dakka. Pick one weapon, not a bubblechukka. The next time that weapon fires, it fires its maximum number of shots. In addition, roll a D6. On a 6, that weapon adds 1 to its damage characteristic permanently.
Wowie zowie boy oh boy cannot wait to go add this super awesome thing to my army for a paltry 80 points it just adds so much zoggin' VALUE.
You might be right actually. Doesn’t Moartarion have similar wording on his weapon? I thought I read somewhere that he gains the extra attacks on 6s when fighting imperium.
From the Death Guard FAQ:
Q: If Mortarion gets to make an extra attack with Silence due to the Death to the False Emperor ability and I choose to make it with the reaping scythe profile, do I roll 1 hit roll or 3?
A: 3.
Sweet gork.
Yeah, that's how I figure it would work. Same principal.
Bloody hell, I guess I'm getting a gorkanaut then.
I'm probably not going to play Goff that often, but Goffanauts sound hilarious.
I mean, the mek shop is better than the forgeshrine in that at least I'd take this for 0 points since you get the mortal wound thing to start of in CC. But it's still terrible beyond measure
the_scotsman wrote: Aaaaaaaand Kirioth has leaked the rules for the mek workshop.
Spoiler alert: the rules for the Sacristan Forgeshrine proved such a HUGE HIT and EVERYONE LOVED THEM for how AWESOMELY FUNCTIONAL they were, that GW decided to re-release the forgeshrine but for orks.
Yeah, those rules are utter garbage. It'll be 'relegated' to being decent scenery rather than a unit included in any army.
Really the kustom job rule should have just been a big mek stratagem. Same thing as it is now without investing 80 points in a unit. Then it would have the flexibility of almost being good at times
The funny thing is GW already prices ork units as if they will always get maximum number of shots. Why do I have to pay 80 pts and skip a turn on top of that to actually fire maximum shots once?
Jidmah wrote: I have no idea why I would want to use any of those.
My only thought is, isn't there some forgeworld vehicle that gets a 2d6 shot flamer? in that case maybe, Maaaaaaaaybe it'd be worthwhile putting one midboard if it's not possible for the vehicle to be in range turn 1 anyway?
rtb02 wrote: Faq says any teleporting or equivalent is turn 2 earliest or own deployment zone T1.
Can't see Ork teleporting being any different.
Well, yes, but the Ork Codex is more recent that the big FAQ and therefore supercedes it. The stratagem doesn't say anywhere that if you deepstrike T1 it has to be in your own deployment zone. Pretty big chance this gets FAQ'ed of course, but as it is you can call down a Gorkanaut 9" away from your opponent and charge it in T1. Then there's of course the RAW vas. RAI debate but with a 2 CP cost that's not entirely clear-cut either.
All that means is that it'll get errata'd in the 2 week ork book faq. Don't rush out and build around anything questionable until at least that one comes out.
Agreed... 'cuz that's a disgustingly powerful tactic there.
Orks' general issue is the delivery system and even I think that pendulum swung a bit too far....
Yea, add that to dajump and get 120 choppa boyz in combat on t1? Especially Goffs. 480 S5 attacks with exploding 6s is pretty bonkers. As it is, we can still get that on turn 2.
Orks at least do have vehicles where you might want to spend a turn doing nothing in order to save up a burst of speed. Doing that with a dread means you can get into combat about as fast as you would otherwise but keep your opponent guessing about where you are going to attack with it. I'd pay 5 points or so for that. Between that and a method to give a unit of grot gunners or lootas some close combat defence, I'd say it is worth at least 10 points.
It definitely seems like with the forgeshrine, current fortification rules, and webway portal that Games Workshop goes out with the intention of making sure that no terrain piece is ever objectively worth taking for the points it costs.
The only time I've ever used any is setting up with my opponent beforehand that each player gets a certain number of "fort points" to play with.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Perfect Organism wrote: Orks at least do have vehicles where you might want to spend a turn doing nothing in order to save up a burst of speed. Doing that with a dread means you can get into combat about as fast as you would otherwise but keep your opponent guessing about where you are going to attack with it. I'd pay 5 points or so for that. Between that and a method to give a unit of grot gunners or lootas some close combat defence, I'd say it is worth at least 10 points.
I mean it is worth noting that its at the end of the move phase, so moving is the only thing you get to do with it first. Put it midboard, and you can use it as a little speed booster for your deff dread, maybe your 'naut to make sure you get a turn 2 charge.
rtb02 wrote: Faq says any teleporting or equivalent is turn 2 earliest or own deployment zone T1.
Can't see Ork teleporting being any different.
Well, yes, but the Ork Codex is more recent that the big FAQ and therefore supercedes it. The stratagem doesn't say anywhere that if you deepstrike T1 it has to be in your own deployment zone. Pretty big chance this gets FAQ'ed of course, but as it is you can call down a Gorkanaut 9" away from your opponent and charge it in T1. Then there's of course the RAW vas. RAI debate but with a 2 CP cost that's not entirely clear-cut either.
All that means is that it'll get errata'd in the 2 week ork book faq. Don't rush out and build around anything questionable until at least that one comes out.
Agreed... 'cuz that's a disgustingly powerful tactic there.
Orks' general issue is the delivery system and even I think that pendulum swung a bit too far....
Yea, add that to dajump and get 120 choppa boyz in combat on t1? Especially Goffs. 480 S5 attacks with exploding 6s is pretty bonkers. As it is, we can still get that on turn 2.
Not even remotely fun for the opponent.
You will not be able to deep strike anything turn 1 that was not deployed on the board. The beta rule is quite clear on that an there is no permission for orks to ignore it.
I mean, we're still talking about spending 8 cp for the two choppa units and to get all the unit the skarboy ability. Additionally getting da jump off twice as well as the cost of of the actual units which will sit without a klaw at 840pts based on the point bump. That seems ok to me. Besides, killing 120 models isn't that hard for a lot of armies.
rtb02 wrote: Faq says any teleporting or equivalent is turn 2 earliest or own deployment zone T1.
Can't see Ork teleporting being any different.
Well, yes, but the Ork Codex is more recent that the big FAQ and therefore supercedes it. The stratagem doesn't say anywhere that if you deepstrike T1 it has to be in your own deployment zone. Pretty big chance this gets FAQ'ed of course, but as it is you can call down a Gorkanaut 9" away from your opponent and charge it in T1. Then there's of course the RAW vas. RAI debate but with a 2 CP cost that's not entirely clear-cut either.
All that means is that it'll get errata'd in the 2 week ork book faq. Don't rush out and build around anything questionable until at least that one comes out.
Agreed... 'cuz that's a disgustingly powerful tactic there.
Orks' general issue is the delivery system and even I think that pendulum swung a bit too far....
Yea, add that to dajump and get 120 choppa boyz in combat on t1? Especially Goffs. 480 S5 attacks with exploding 6s is pretty bonkers. As it is, we can still get that on turn 2.
Not even remotely fun for the opponent.
How are you getting 120 Boys into comabt T1? Da Jump can only be cast once a turn, and only affects 1 unit. So thats 30 boys. Also since Skarboys is a stratagem you can only use it once a turn correct? That means that only 1 squad can be S5 (or can stratagems that are used before the game starts be used more than once? I forget)
rtb02 wrote: Faq says any teleporting or equivalent is turn 2 earliest or own deployment zone T1.
Can't see Ork teleporting being any different.
Well, yes, but the Ork Codex is more recent that the big FAQ and therefore supercedes it. The stratagem doesn't say anywhere that if you deepstrike T1 it has to be in your own deployment zone. Pretty big chance this gets FAQ'ed of course, but as it is you can call down a Gorkanaut 9" away from your opponent and charge it in T1. Then there's of course the RAW vas. RAI debate but with a 2 CP cost that's not entirely clear-cut either.
All that means is that it'll get errata'd in the 2 week ork book faq. Don't rush out and build around anything questionable until at least that one comes out.
Agreed... 'cuz that's a disgustingly powerful tactic there.
Orks' general issue is the delivery system and even I think that pendulum swung a bit too far....
Yea, add that to dajump and get 120 choppa boyz in combat on t1? Especially Goffs. 480 S5 attacks with exploding 6s is pretty bonkers. As it is, we can still get that on turn 2.
Not even remotely fun for the opponent.
You will not be able to deep strike anything turn 1 that was not deployed on the board. The beta rule is quite clear on that an there is no permission for orks to ignore it.
Agreed.
I'm wondering if that beta rule was written specifically for the new Ork codex. They knew that stratagem was coming out--even with the 20PL limit it's really scary.
the_scotsman wrote: I mean it is worth noting that its at the end of the move phase, so moving is the only thing you get to do with it first. Put it midboard, and you can use it as a little speed booster for your deff dread, maybe your 'naut to make sure you get a turn 2 charge.
If you can set it up outside your deployment zone, that makes it a bit better. That way it gives you a pure extension to your threat range. I could actually be worth 80 points to move an assault unit 6" further on turn 2, I think.
Otherwise, I really hope those were the playtest rules and they fixed them before publishing. Making the 6+ permanent bonus automatic instead might be enough.
mekshop is neat but i kinda dont see a point in it. 80pts for a static thing that on a 6 boosts a vehicle up (which is strong, but super unlikely). The heal part of it is completely pointless since odds are the buggies are the only ones fast enough to GET to the mek shop from the battle, and as with most things chargy they'd rather charge to avoid being shot than run and hide like a git.
Have to admit theres a certain allure to using it on a Gorkanaut. Imagine getting that +1T before it goes out to krump a foo lol.
If it didnt have that "wait a turn" part, this would be awesome. I'd use it on my Supa Kannon getting 12 shots so i actually get to use the dang thing, but every other turn? i roll maybe once a game less than 5 hits a turn.
Couple goofy ideas, just because I want to be goofy:
1) Kill tank with giga shoota, Freebootaz kultur
hide behind terrain, select More Dakka turn 1. Turn 2, make sure you destroy a unit before selecting the Kill Tank to shoot. Fire 36 BS3+ S6 Ap-1 shots.
2) Meka dread with supa charga, have a Trikeboss on the field. Select more speed, turn 2 move 22+D6" and charge.
3) Big trakk with supa scorcha, any kultur. Turn 1 more dakka, turn 2 12 scorcha hits.
Yeah, when the first leaks of the mek shop came out that said it would have a way to max out shots, the kill tank was what I preached could have the most potential. But honestly it's not worth it with the whole skipping a turn caveat. Just shoot it 2 turns in a row and you'll get more hits statistically. And you don't have to spend 80 points on that piece of terrain (and I guess also a detachment, or how does that work?)
PiñaColada wrote: Yeah, when the first leaks of the mek shop came out that said it would have a way to max out shots, the kill tank was what I preached could have the most potential. But honestly it's not worth it with the whole skipping a turn caveat. Just shoot it 2 turns in a row and you'll get more hits statistically. And you don't have to spend 80 points on that piece of terrain (and I guess also a detachment, or how does that work?)
Yeah, I think the turn of downtime is the real killer. If it could shoot/move/assault in the same turn as being buffed, then the thing might have some potential. I also think it is especially Orky to upgrade a gun at the same time it is shooting!
that or make the permanent buff a guarantee, but limit it to only once per vehicle (so no potential +4T on a vehicle if you happened to get that lucky lol) i'd gladly drop the use of a naut for a turn to make it T9 suddenly, but when its so unlikely...no Granted being T9 doesnt mean THAT much but still (T8 is the major cutoff since S4 guns now wound on 6s, really all T9 does is stop the S8 shots from wounding on 4s)
Super gatler 12 shots. Roll d6 with a 2+ get 12 more shots, roll d6 3+ 12 more shots, roll d6 4+ 12 more shots, roll d6 5+ 12 more shots.... save your CP reroll for failed psycho blaster roll!!!
You can probably get a reliable 48 shots off if you save your CP reroll.
rtb02 wrote: Faq says any teleporting or equivalent is turn 2 earliest or own deployment zone T1.
Can't see Ork teleporting being any different.
Well, yes, but the Ork Codex is more recent that the big FAQ and therefore supercedes it. The stratagem doesn't say anywhere that if you deepstrike T1 it has to be in your own deployment zone. Pretty big chance this gets FAQ'ed of course, but as it is you can call down a Gorkanaut 9" away from your opponent and charge it in T1. Then there's of course the RAW vas. RAI debate but with a 2 CP cost that's not entirely clear-cut either.
All that means is that it'll get errata'd in the 2 week ork book faq. Don't rush out and build around anything questionable until at least that one comes out.
You won't see a FAQ as the 'Tactical Reserves' rule is still a beta rule (i.e. it's not an official rule yet, it's just presented for community playtesting and feedback).
PiñaColada wrote: Yeah, when the first leaks of the mek shop came out that said it would have a way to max out shots, the kill tank was what I preached could have the most potential. But honestly it's not worth it with the whole skipping a turn caveat. Just shoot it 2 turns in a row and you'll get more hits statistically. And you don't have to spend 80 points on that piece of terrain (and I guess also a detachment, or how does that work?)
Shame chapter approved took a bat to the kill tank!
I’m hoping CA 2018 gives fw units a reasonable unit cost
ritualnet wrote: Grots, Thraka, war bike mob and boyz are all sold out online and no longer available on UK store. Possibly the base size change?
Not sure if people know or not, on phone looking for Ork models
I'm pretty sure grots were rumored to be going on 75mm dreadnought bases, and they're going to be re-releasing them with the 2nd edition metal snotling models.
3) Big trakk with supa scorcha, any kultur. Turn 1 more dakka, turn 2 12 scorcha hits.
But yeah it mostly sucks donkey nuts.
I know you said it sucks, so am not aiming this at you - but taking your example of the Big Trakk with SupaScorcha because LOTs of people dont seem to understand that missing a turn of shooting, then having ONE turn (if it was until end of game it'd be a different story) maximum shooting isn't good.
The SupaScorcha being 4D3 rather than D6 based actually makes it even worse to 0+max rather than average+average. But if you do similar with a 2D6 weapon you'd end up with average being 7+7 = 14, compared to 0+max being 12 so you'd still lose out on average. So either way you're paying for the benefit of a net loss in shots
Not to mention that if you've parked a vehicle at a Mek Shop T1 and chose more Dakka... This gives the opponent a turn to either take out your vehicle before it shots, or to position his forces accordingly to negate you potential juicy targets.
So yeah, it REALLY does suck. You should be PAID to take it.
ritualnet wrote: Grots, Thraka, war bike mob and boyz are all sold out online and no longer available on UK store. Possibly the base size change?
Not sure if people know or not, on phone looking for Ork models
I'm pretty sure grots were rumored to be going on 75mm dreadnought bases, and they're going to be re-releasing them with the 2nd edition metal snotling models.
IF that meant they also became ammo for the SAG again and could appear inside enemy models for an instant death I'd probably be OK with it
Ok, just to clear up the whole 1 or 3 extra attacks for the Goff rule on things like Gorkanaughts.
There is a massive difference between Death to the False Emperor and No Mukkin' About.
DttFE allows you to make an additional ATTACK for each hit roll of a 6 vs Imperium units.
NMA allows you to make an additional HIT ROLL for each hit roll of a 6.
As a result, Mortarian using Silence will generate 3 additional hits, due to him gaining +1 attack.
Goffs Gorkanaughts will only generate 1 additional hit, as he is not gaining an additional attack.
I fully expect it to be in the FAQ just for clarity, but, you need to remember that generating an attack is different to generating a hit.
As for the Mek Shop. As crzylgs points out, it is completely pointless. You give up an entire turn for a small advantage in the next turn. It's exactly the same with the Knights terrain piece. Sounds cool to start with, but, you don't see Castellans, Valiants, Errants or Paladins giving up entire shooting phases and restricting their movement just to remove shot randomness the next turn. Also, you'll almost never get to use the mortal wound roll, as, who is going to stand next to it and fight Orks?
Anti horde and screens are going to be a must going forward, especially vs str 5 Goff mobs.
Eyyy, the S5 goffs will probably dominate tournaments. Shame really for the rest of us Ork players who just use boyz to soften the enemy before we send in the explosive trukks!
yeah im kinda surprised that one isnt the 2CP choice and 'Ard Boyz is 1cp.
Given that 5+ save is NOTHING in the grand scheme of things vs going to Str5 on 2-4 30man blobs.
That is assuming something doesnt interrupt doing this multiple times, since unless i missed somethign its not a "phase" so it doesnt have that restriction.
I find the method of using CPs to gain access to Skar boyz and 'Ard boys interesting. It basically suggests that Warbosses have to call in favours and use some of their reputation to get access to the best ladz.
On the Tellyporta strat, just to keep things real interesting I'll throw this into the mix (it's from the comments on the Goff preview, can't be bothered to search right now);
A Facebook User wrote:Will the tellyporta be restricted to second turn as the other similar stratagems are?
Warhammer 40,000 Community team wrote:Not something we've revealed yet, Stephen!
RAW the tellyporta doesn't operate outside of turn 2, as per every other DS strat. Would be very interesting if this were different for some reason.
It certainly seems to lack the "once per game" of other similar strats...
As already discussed, Skarboyz look beast.
I'm not convinced on these new buggies though, they have decent potential output but 8W, T6, 4+? They'll melt.
An Actual Englishman wrote: On the Tellyporta strat, just to keep things real interesting I'll throw this into the mix (it's from the comments on the Goff preview, can't be bothered to search right now);
A Facebook User wrote:Will the tellyporta be restricted to second turn as the other similar stratagems are?
Warhammer 40,000 Community team wrote:Not something we've revealed yet, Stephen!
I cannot imagine they would allow this. Can you imagine the howls of protest from every quarter?
No doubt genestealers will get something turn 1, because that is their shtick. But orks?
Besides, if it was to be allowed on t1, wouldn't it say so, right there in the strategem? I don't see where else it would go. maybe an army-wide rule that allows orks to ignore all beta rules?
better not be T1 capable.
Otherwise were going right back to the old reserves bs. They changed it to not be allowed turn1, NOBODY should be able to break that change.
GW has done this in the past though so i wouldnt be surprised to see them to it again.
Vineheart01 wrote: They changed it to not be allowed turn1, NOBODY should be able to break that change.
GW has done this in the past though so i wouldnt be surprised to see them to it again.
I disagree, I think that genestealers and Marine tacticals in drop pods should
They wouldn't include the restriction in the strat as the limitation is only on matched play and it is written to include open and narrative play. Game modes that I've been told take place somewhere amidst Unicorn onlookers
Eldarain wrote: They wouldn't include the restriction in the strat as the limitation is only on matched play and it is written to include open and narrative play. Game modes that I've been told take place somewhere amidst Unicorn onlookers
I really, really wanted a goffs army but TBH I want boys to be faster, more flexible and more durable. The skarboys thing seems like too much of a good thing.
A full strength Choppa unit on the charge is already terrifying. My question is always how do I get them to the charge.
The Ard boy thing is questionable at best, I will agree. It just simply appeals to me more because of the concept of making a boys unit more durable.
That said, I just don't know how appealing they would be at 7 ppm. Skarboys obviously makes that viable again.
It's strange that teleport spam is going to be the glue to hold that machine together. Boys are kind of....slow and inflexible. Teleportation is such a gimme.
I think I'm going to resist the temptation to make a goffs army of teleporting skarboy Choppas. That probably would have excited me a few years ago.
I think I'm going to resist the temptation to make a goffs army of teleporting skarboy Choppas. That probably would have excited me a few years ago.
I feel that most people are going to avoid that tbh since it's not that far off from what we do now. Get a boatload of boyz, jump some of them, slog the rest. This stratagem, while mechanically different, is practically the same. I feel like most people are going to at least try out different options because we're all so damn sick of only taking boyz, boyz, and more boyz. We want trukks, battlewagons, lootas, walkers, MANz (which have received a "generous" point decrease), so we're probably going to be seeing a bunch of that until it's figured out that boyz spam is still the best thing we got.
I don’t think it’s killed sales.
This was what was realistically to be expected.
I know a lot of people were shouting out lower numbers but it was never going to be that.
This is about right for kits of that size.
Yeah, I’ll likely get the bike and the scrap jet but not the entirely optional squig truck? Especially if I can’t optimize it with unit based clan choices.
Honestly I can stomach that at $45, and it's a lot better than what I was worrying about.
Since I've been saving up for our new codex for a lot longer than I thought I would be, I'm way down for nabbing a few of them. On release day I'm literally going to tear open the codex, figure out the points on the things, and buy the ones I think are actually worth it. Sadly since the Dragsta and the Boosta Blasta are box set exclusive, that limits me to the Wartrike and the Snazzwagon (which I think looks the coolest even if its stats aren't great.)
The squigbuddy, don't get me wrong, is hilarious, but it stands to be the most points costly of the group so I don't think I'm gonna be going for it, and I just don't like the look of the Scrapjet. So it looks like I'm gonna be waiting for the two kit exclusive buggies even longer.
$45 with the standard online 15% discount is $39... which is fine
Even better if you can find an online retailer with 20% discount .
Best I got is minature market with 15% plus free shipping plus 1% store points discount.
H.B.M.C. wrote: US$45 puts them at the same price as... Grimaldus.
Grimaldus in AUD$ is.. $72.
AUD$72 buggies? That's more expensive than the already ludicrous AUD$67 Mek Gunz? And that kit has options. These do not.
More expensive than Mek guns, more expensive than Land Speeders which are the most directly comparable models, more expensive even than superheavy Armigers.
gungo wrote: $45 with the standard online 15% discount is $39... which is fine
Even better if you can find an online retailer with 20% discount .
Best I got is minature market with 15% plus free shipping plus 1% store points discount.
ne
seems like a lot of loops holes to go to just to get it for a little more then you pay for it retail in the UK. I really wanted to support this release because I think orks deserve it and they are my fav army but unless they do a decent start collecting box it might just be a codex for me.... so sad really as I planned on dropping about $400 or so on some new orks... I am not going to do that at these prices though. I am tired of GW's USA price rediculousness. I hate to have to make my stand where it can reflect poorly against my favorite army though.
If US sales don't go well for orks, GW will assume no one likes orks not that their prices are rediculous. Isn't fair, orks deserve a lot better then this. Maybe there will be a buggy in a start collecting set?
im not excited for the buggy price. and even though ive saved up some cash i will most likely wait to have codex in hand and check the points to see if they are worth getting.
this has happened before. i was super excited about the gmorkanaut when it 1st came out, but its price compared to a stompa was crazy (almost twice the plastic but about the same price ). also the rules sucked, so i neglected buying it in 7th edition, i only bought it with high hopes in 8th edition. these buggies can very well be the most awesome units we will ever have but it doesn't seem like that will be the case from what weve seen.
its practices like this that realy supports the claim that GW is the same it always been. "doesn't realy care for orks and only wants to con us out of our money". when that backfires then GW and every non ork player will use use the low sales that ork players dont want new models or good rules or some other ignorant thing. i know im getting a little "whiney" as some would say. but orks are my main faction. being treated poorly is in the GW pedigree, its not illogical to expect the same treatment we have always been given.
also, as far as everyone talking about the mekshop, i think many dont understand how it works. the upgrade the shop gives is a permanent upgrade to the model it was given to. the rule for the mekshop said it could only use its upgrade ability only once a round (so you dont upgrade mutable vehicles at once).
while this might make the shop more appealing, the only thing i think it might be good for is buffing the shooting of a large model like the stompa (if it gets buffed to actually be usable).
the speed modifier doesn't make sense since you have to wait a turn to get it and the model could be benefited more by actually moving that turn.
and also d3 wounds healed is very meh. roll a 1 in hopes to repair that stompa...whoopie.
for 80-pts this thing is very much pointless, might as well bring other things.
i probably;y wont buy the mekshop and the new buggies all at once like i had initially planned, ill wait to later in the edition/year just to say i bought them, cause they look cool. and maybe by that time CA will have buffed them.
Splitting the Speedfreeks box with another Orkboy at my shop. Don't even care which buggy I get. However, I am interested in the barricades and terrain pieces. Seem perfect for my Ork Kill team.
27.50£ is the price band of the Nightscythe (and nothing else that I could find)? So 25€ from an onlone discounter when imported. That's not as good as Armigers or E2B, but bearable. A Blastajet to make a couple of Scrapjets would still make sense.
PS: My baby is coming early and I managed a transfer time of officially minus 1 minute between trains because of that. If that's not a sign to start a Speeswaagh I don't know. Once I have time again
3) Big trakk with supa scorcha, any kultur. Turn 1 more dakka, turn 2 12 scorcha hits.
But yeah it mostly sucks donkey nuts.
I know you said it sucks, so am not aiming this at you - but taking your example of the Big Trakk with SupaScorcha because LOTs of people dont seem to understand that missing a turn of shooting, then having ONE turn (if it was until end of game it'd be a different story) maximum shooting isn't good.
The SupaScorcha being 4D3 rather than D6 based actually makes it even worse to 0+max rather than average+average. But if you do similar with a 2D6 weapon you'd end up with average being 7+7 = 14, compared to 0+max being 12 so you'd still lose out on average. So either way you're paying for the benefit of a net loss in shots
Not to mention that if you've parked a vehicle at a Mek Shop T1 and chose more Dakka... This gives the opponent a turn to either take out your vehicle before it shots, or to position his forces accordingly to negate you potential juicy targets.
So yeah, it REALLY does suck. You should be PAID to take it.
ritualnet wrote: Grots, Thraka, war bike mob and boyz are all sold out online and no longer available on UK store. Possibly the base size change?
Not sure if people know or not, on phone looking for Ork models
I'm pretty sure grots were rumored to be going on 75mm dreadnought bases, and they're going to be re-releasing them with the 2nd edition metal snotling models.
IF that meant they also became ammo for the SAG again and could appear inside enemy models for an instant death I'd probably be OK with it
Mek shop rules leaked? Been out of loop for day. Sounds like knight one and that's so bad opponents will be happy to give you one for free in case you make mistake of using it. Why gw fails with these terrain rules? Eldar and knight ones suck ass(eldar one even been nerfed....) and now orks too?
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lolman1c wrote: Eyyy, the S5 goffs will probably dominate tournaments. Shame really for the rest of us Ork players who just use boyz to soften the enemy before we send in the explosive trukks!
S5 sounds nice until you realize even 6pts boyz never make into useful combat let alone 15% less boyz
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Vineheart01 wrote: better not be T1 capable.
Otherwise were going right back to the old reserves bs. They changed it to not be allowed turn1, NOBODY should be able to break that change.
GW has done this in the past though so i wouldnt be surprised to see them to it again.
Well t1 ds was oniy problem with shooters and 3d6 charging assaulters
tneva82 wrote: Mek shop rules leaked? Been out of loop for day. Sounds like knight one and that's so bad opponents will be happy to give you one for free in case you make mistake of using it. Why gw fails with these terrain rules? Eldar and knight ones suck ass(eldar one even been nerfed....) and now orks too?
I can't find them right now, but quick summary from memory:
It becomes terrain after deployment and cannot be attacked or destroyed.
Grabbin Klaw - At the beginning of the fight phase, if an enemy model is within 1" of the mek shop, you can select one of your infantry models within 1" as well. If you do, on a 4+, it deals d3 mortal wounds to the enemy.
In addition, you can have a vehicle skip shooting and fighting for a model (like the knight thing) and gain one of these awesome benefits:
- Move +6" next turn. Also roll a d6, on a 6+ you get +d6 movement for the rest of the game. This would actually be good if you wouldn't have to deploy it in your deployment zone.
- Heal d3 wounds, or flat 3 if a mek is also wasting its time near this beautiful scenery. On a 6+ the model gets +1 toughness. Oh, and the mek can't repair anything else this turn...
- Shoot max shots with weapon that's not a bubblechucka (because that would be too good ). On a 6+ gain +1 shots for one weapon for the rest of the game.
Right. So pretty much same as the imperial knight one apart from attacking enemy. So basically enemy will happily give you one for free since using it is detrimental to orks.
Good possible example of lead times. Either GW ignored all the feedback about knight codex or it was too late to change codex from feedback at the knight equilavent.
tneva82 wrote: Right. So pretty much same as the imperial knight one apart from attacking enemy. So basically enemy will happily give you one for free since using it is detrimental to orks.
Good possible example of lead times. Either GW ignored all the feedback about knight codex or it was too late to change codex from feedback at the knight equilavent.
Well yes and no. I would actually take this for 0 points (and 0 detachment slots if that would matter) since you get "free" d3 mortal wounds on a 4+ at the start of the combat phase if you have a unit within 1" of it. That unit doesn't lose its attacks. So I wouldn't use it for the actual Kustom Job part nor do I think the mortal wound mechanic is worth much but at 0 or even 5 points I'd take it. The same cannot be said for the forgeshrine
We also have some units which aren't shooting a lot, so deep striking it midfield and then have a deff dread of something else bouncing off it with +6" move might actually do something - but nothing worth 80 points and 2 CP.
gungo wrote: $45 with the standard online 15% discount is $39... which is fine
Even better if you can find an online retailer with 20% discount .
Best I got is minature market with 15% plus free shipping plus 1% store points discount.
ne
seems like a lot of loops holes to go to just to get it for a little more then you pay for it retail in the UK. I really wanted to support this release because I think orks deserve it and they are my fav army but unless they do a decent start collecting box it might just be a codex for me.... so sad really as I planned on dropping about $400 or so on some new orks... I am not going to do that at these prices though. I am tired of GW's USA price rediculousness. I hate to have to make my stand where it can reflect poorly against my favorite army though.
If US sales don't go well for orks, GW will assume no one likes orks not that their prices are rediculous. Isn't fair, orks deserve a lot better then this. Maybe there will be a buggy in a start collecting set?
Give it a rest.
Every brick and mortar I've walked into has a 15% discount.
That cuts the price down to $38.25.
Cost of living isn't factored into exchange rates. Gw pricing does
It always happens. Removed - rule #1 please
That said, when the codex drops you'll find plenty moan about and reasons for falling sky justifying you dropping Orks. Then you may at last be happy in your cynicism?
Vorian wrote: Exchange ratio is nothing to do with GW pricing though. Must we continually go through this every single release?!
Yes but why people keep pulling up discounts like they are somehow US specific thing that makes exchange ratio weirdness allright. It's not unique to US so does nothing to fix it.
Vorian wrote: It's not cost of living. It's regional pricing that is consistent no matter what the exchange rate is.
If the £ goes up it'll look closer, I'd f the £ goes down it'll look wrose.
You none UK person #3553 will pay the same in your currency unit no matter what Stirling is doing.
Of course exhange ratio's have big effect on what GW customer will pay then. If £ goes cheaper he buys from UK. If somehow £ becomes expensive time for local store.
Headwoppa's Killchoppa - Replace big choppa
S+2 AP-2 D2 Wounds rolls of 6+ cause 2 mortal wounds in addition
Super cybork body
5+ FnP
Da Killa Klaw - Replace power klaw
Sx2 AP-3 D3 Reroll wounds
Scorched Gitbonez - Pysker only
Add 1 to psychic tests
Gitstoppa Shells - Model with kustom shoota, kombiweaponwith skorcha or kombiweapon with rokkits only
Add 1 to strength and damage of that weapons shoota or kustom shoota profile, improve the AP of that weapon by 1 as well (AP-1 becomes AP-2)
Da Lucky Stikk - Goff only
Add 1 to hit rolls made by friendly goff chracters within 6" of the bearer in the fight phase. In addition, you can reroll hit and damage rolls for attacks made by the bearer in the fight phase
Morgogs finkin cap - Blood axe only
If the bearer is your warlord you can generate a second warlord trait for them. If the bearer is not your warlord generate a warlord trait for them. The same warlord trait cannot be generated for both the bearer and the warlord.
Rezmekkas redder armour - Evil sunz only
Add 1 to the movement characteristic of a transport while this model is embarked within it. In addition, if the bearer is embarked, then at the start of your movement phase roll d6 for each enemy unit within 1" of the transport the bearr is embarked in. Ona 4+ that unit suffers d3 mortal wounds.
Da Gobshot Thunderbuss - Bad moons with kustom shoota or kombiskorcha/rokkit only
Replaces weapon with following profile
12" Heavy2d6 S5 AP-1 D1 This weapon automatically hits its target
Da Fixxer Upperz - Deathskulls model only
The bearer gains the big mekaniak ability. If the beaerer already had the big mekaniak ability, the target of the ability regains 3 lost wounds instead of d3 every time it's used
Broggs Buzzbom - Snakebite only
6" Grenade3d6 S5 AP-1 D1 This weapon can be used once per battle. After all of its attacks have been resolved, you can immediately select another enemy unit within 6" of the target and resolve 2d6 attacks against it with the sam weapon. This ability only occurs once. This weapons automatically hits its target
Da Badskull banner - Freebooterz only
Once per battle, at the start of your turn, the bearer of Da Badskull Banner can choose to fly on its boss pole. If they do so, friendly freebooter units do not have to take morale tests until the start of your next turn
Also the extra relics for 1/3cp if you like, same as everyone else
The klaw relic doesn't seem to have a hit penalty.
The banner is table wide, which can be useful for hoard armies.
The problem with it though is that you have to activate it at the start of your turn, so you have to be sure that you are going to take losses when your opponent has his.
Once again, Evil Sunz are looking like the best/most interesting here. Rezmekkas Redder Armor looks kind of meh until you realize oh wait, orks have a LOT of transports in a LOT of sizes. You know, transports like battlewagons with Deffrollas, Gorkanauts, Stompas, Gargantuan Squiggoths.
Would I like my stompa that takes up practically half the table area to have a 4+ mortal wound aura and +1 movespeed just for having my big mek w/KFF warlord inside it?
I know these are rumours so the wording might change, but....
Da Lucky Stikk doesn't replace a waaagh banna, which means a warboss could take one and you could have a waaagh banna holder as well for +2 to hit.
Now your Powa Klaws are hitting on 2+, and your boys will ignore any -1 to hit.
Edit: Rezmekkas redder armour second ability seems almost useless, how often are you going to find your transport still in combat at the start of your turn?
If you charge the enemy they will almost certainly fall back in their turn.
It will only ever come up if they charge you and fail to take out your transport, and how often will that happen when you have a 4+ armour save and no invul?
Bowie wrote: I know these are rumours so the wording might change, but....
Da Lucky Stikk doesn't replace a waaagh banna, which means a warboss could take one and you could have a waaagh banna holder as well for +2 to hit.
Now your Powa Klaws are hitting on 2+, and your boys will ignore any -1 to hit.
Edit: Rezmekkas redder armour second ability seems almost useless, how often are you going to find your transport still in combat at the start of your turn?
If you charge the enemy they will almost certainly fall back in their turn.
It will only ever come up if they charge you and fail to take out your transport, and how often will that happen when you have a 4+ armour save and no invul?
DLS only works on CHARACTERS, so you can't stack it up to make a unit of super boyz/nobz/killa kanz.
Shame, because killa kanz that hit on 3s sounds aaaaaaawesome.
i think that was the point of the Killa Klaw was it was a PK w/o the -1 to hit, otherwise its just a PK with reroll to wounds (which is kinda moot on a S12 boss)
Buggies being 35USD makes me happy. I was afraid they'd pull a MekGunz and make something we want like 4-6 of cost 50 freaking bucks. Time to buy 1 of everything!
Buggies being 35USD makes me happy. I was afraid they'd pull a MekGunz and make something we want like 4-6 of cost 50 freaking bucks. Time to buy 1 of everything!
Vineheart01 wrote: i think that was the point of the Killa Klaw was it was a PK w/o the -1 to hit, otherwise its just a PK with reroll to wounds (which is kinda moot on a S12 boss)
Buggies being 35USD makes me happy. I was afraid they'd pull a MekGunz and make something we want like 4-6 of cost 50 freaking bucks. Time to buy 1 of everything!
Wasn't flat damage also different? Could be wrong albeit. But flat damage itself is sweet and reroll wound matters nicely vs T8 targets like knights if you desperately need to try your luck vs one.
Vineheart01 wrote: i think that was the point of the Killa Klaw was it was a PK w/o the -1 to hit, otherwise its just a PK with reroll to wounds (which is kinda moot on a S12 boss)
Buggies being 35USD makes me happy. I was afraid they'd pull a MekGunz and make something we want like 4-6 of cost 50 freaking bucks. Time to buy 1 of everything!
Bowie wrote: I know these are rumours so the wording might change, but....
Da Lucky Stikk doesn't replace a waaagh banna, which means a warboss could take one and you could have a waaagh banna holder as well for +2 to hit.
Now your Powa Klaws are hitting on 2+, and your boys will ignore any -1 to hit.
Edit: Rezmekkas redder armour second ability seems almost useless, how often are you going to find your transport still in combat at the start of your turn?
If you charge the enemy they will almost certainly fall back in their turn.
It will only ever come up if they charge you and fail to take out your transport, and how often will that happen when you have a 4+ armour save and no invul?
DLS only works on CHARACTERS, so you can't stack it up to make a unit of super boyz/nobz/killa kanz.
Shame, because killa kanz that hit on 3s sounds aaaaaaawesome.
Also, the psyker relic. Pretty useless for weirdboys. They are already hitting perils of the warp based on boys numbers. Unless they changed that rule.
Bowie wrote: I know these are rumours so the wording might change, but....
Da Lucky Stikk doesn't replace a waaagh banna, which means a warboss could take one and you could have a waaagh banna holder as well for +2 to hit.
Now your Powa Klaws are hitting on 2+, and your boys will ignore any -1 to hit.
Edit: Rezmekkas redder armour second ability seems almost useless, how often are you going to find your transport still in combat at the start of your turn?
If you charge the enemy they will almost certainly fall back in their turn.
It will only ever come up if they charge you and fail to take out your transport, and how often will that happen when you have a 4+ armour save and no invul?
DLS only works on CHARACTERS, so you can't stack it up to make a unit of super boyz/nobz/killa kanz.
Shame, because killa kanz that hit on 3s sounds aaaaaaawesome.
Thanks for the clarification, lol. Never mind on the goffs.
I literally almost missed that and got lost in visions of the old skool lucky stikk killmobs.
mhalko1 wrote: Also, the psyker relic. Pretty useless for weirdboys. They are already hitting perils of the warp based on boys numbers. Unless they changed that rule.
Every race has a useless stick to give to their psykers for smiting. It really wasn't a question whether we would get one.
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PiñaColada wrote: The Gitstoppa shells could have some potential. If I understand it correctly a Kombi-skorcha would become.
Shoota 18" S5 AP-1 D2
Skorcha 8" S5 AP-2 D1
Not amazing or anything but might be a solid little upgrade if you only want one relic really, so spending 1CP for that upgrade isn't bad IMO.
As far as I understand it, this would only apply to the shoota half.
mhalko1 wrote: Also, the psyker relic. Pretty useless for weirdboys. They are already hitting perils of the warp based on boys numbers. Unless they changed that rule.
Every race has a useless stick to give to their psykers for smiting. It really wasn't a question whether we would get one.
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PiñaColada wrote: The Gitstoppa shells could have some potential. If I understand it correctly a Kombi-skorcha would become.
Shoota 18" S5 AP-1 D2
Skorcha 8" S5 AP-2 D1
Not amazing or anything but might be a solid little upgrade if you only want one relic really, so spending 1CP for that upgrade isn't bad IMO.
As far as I understand it, this would only apply to the shoota half.
I thought so too at first and that's my mistake for writing it hastily. But reading the text again I think the +1D,+1S is the shoota part and +1AP is everything. Oterwise the caveat of AP-1 becomes AP-2 wouldn't make sense anyways since shootas don't have AP
PiñaColada wrote: The Gitstoppa shells could have some potential. If I understand it correctly a Kombi-skorcha would become.
Shoota 18" S5 AP-1 D2
Skorcha 8" S5 AP-2 D1
Not amazing or anything but might be a solid little upgrade if you only want one relic really, so spending 1CP for that upgrade isn't bad IMO.
It's not terrible, but it's also not...good. Relic weapons always have this weird thing about them where GW really doesn't know how to make them equal.
Any time I see a relic version of one of these little infantry-toted guns, I can't help but giggle at how GW thinks this bolt pistol or whatever is somehow the equivalent to Cawls Wrath.
Every brick and mortar I've walked into has a 15% discount.
That cuts the price down to $38.25.
And you get it in UK for 15%-20% off so 20.4£-21.675£. Point is? You are still paying more than exchange ratio says you should.
The person you were responding to and the person I was responding to both live in the United States
That's the point I was making. All due respect, my Finnish friend, but your squiggly lined poundage mumbo jumbo makey no sense on this side of the pond.
PiñaColada wrote: I thought so too at first and that's my mistake for writing it hastily. But reading the text again I think the +1D,+1S is the shoota part and +1AP is everything. Oterwise the caveat of AP-1 becomes AP-2 wouldn't make sense anyways since shootas don't have AP
PiñaColada wrote: I thought so too at first and that's my mistake for writing it hastily. But reading the text again I think the +1D,+1S is the shoota part and +1AP is everything. Oterwise the caveat of AP-1 becomes AP-2 wouldn't make sense anyways since shootas don't have AP
Maybe kustom shootas have become AP-1?
Then da ded shiny shoota seems worse since you'd lose that AP Edit: I'm dumb,I thought that the da ded shiny shoota was AP-0. Then maybe you're right. Man that'd be nice
Bowie wrote: I know these are rumours so the wording might change, but....
Da Lucky Stikk doesn't replace a waaagh banna, which means a warboss could take one and you could have a waaagh banna holder as well for +2 to hit.
Now your Powa Klaws are hitting on 2+, and your boys will ignore any -1 to hit.
Edit: Rezmekkas redder armour second ability seems almost useless, how often are you going to find your transport still in combat at the start of your turn?
If you charge the enemy they will almost certainly fall back in their turn.
It will only ever come up if they charge you and fail to take out your transport, and how often will that happen when you have a 4+ armour save and no invul?
DLS only works on CHARACTERS, so you can't stack it up to make a unit of super boyz/nobz/killa kanz.
Shame, because killa kanz that hit on 3s sounds aaaaaaawesome.
the Wartrike is a character so da supa cyborg gives that vehicle 5+ fnp
Stompa with the mortal wound auro could be amazing... even a gorkanaut might be decent w it.
The psyker relic all but confirms a nerf to weirdboyz....
It would have been cool if you could combine gitstoppa shells and the dead shiny shoota however relic rules prevents that.
Da lucky stikk was nerfed hard.. it doesn’t even allow armor save rerolls anymore... you can’t use it on named characters...this could only be useful if you can get a character into a unit....or maybe using the index warboss/painboy on bike w klaw to make the klaw decent again... so i guess the 4 amigos list could work with painboy on bike w lucky stikk, zhardsnark, warboss on Wartrike, and warboss w relic klaw) all benefiting from +1 to hit character aura and FNP. That would surely be a very hard hitting and fast crew...
PiñaColada wrote: I thought so too at first and that's my mistake for writing it hastily. But reading the text again I think the +1D,+1S is the shoota part and +1AP is everything. Oterwise the caveat of AP-1 becomes AP-2 wouldn't make sense anyways since shootas don't have AP
Maybe kustom shootas have become AP-1?
Then da ded shiny shoota seems worse since you'd lose that AP Edit: I'm dumb, that the relic shoota was AP-0. Then maybe you're right. Man that'd be nice
I wouldn't bet on it, but who knows?
In general, the dead shiny shoota might be worth a CP. Mathhammer says it kills 2 guardsmen on average, that's 8 shoota boyz worth of shooting.
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gungo wrote: The psyker relic all but confirms a nerf to weirdboyz....
Every. Single. Codex has this relic. It doesn't confirm gak, except GW loving their copy&paste rules.
Any time I see a relic version of one of these little infantry-toted guns, I can't help but giggle at how GW thinks this bolt pistol or whatever is somehow the equivalent to Cawls Wrath.
That's what you get when you decide to have relics, warlord traits etc free in points
Any time I see a relic version of one of these little infantry-toted guns, I can't help but giggle at how GW thinks this bolt pistol or whatever is somehow the equivalent to Cawls Wrath.
That's what you get when you decide to have relics, warlord traits etc free in points
They aren't "free" (unless you only consider the most narrow viewpoint of points). Otherwise you could take as many as you wanted, which is not the case. Relics are a resource, CPs are a resource, points are a resource. It's bad design to create a relic that has no functional use given you can only take a max of 3 of them.
Any time I see a relic version of one of these little infantry-toted guns, I can't help but giggle at how GW thinks this bolt pistol or whatever is somehow the equivalent to Cawls Wrath.
That's what you get when you decide to have relics, warlord traits etc free in points
They aren't "free" (unless you only consider the most narrow viewpoint of points). Otherwise you could take as many as you wanted, which is not the case. Relics are a resource, CPs are a resource, points are a resource. It's bad design to create a relic that has no functional use given you can only take a max of 3 of them.
They are in the sense one relic costs same as another. If game was balanced there would be cost difference between cawl's wrath and relic bolt pistol. But nooooo. They went for equilavent of having volcano cannon and lascannon cost same 1 slot in vehicle.
The fact that each Relic costs the same another Relic means they have a cost. You have a max of 3 Relic Points for a given army, and if each Relic cost 1 RP (Relic Point) then they have to actually be worth the cost, just like anything else in the game.
Since GW continually makes totally useless Relics they obviously don't understand that.
Thousand sons also have it in form of a warlord trait.
But if they give us that relic and there's no change whatsoever to our psykers it feels incredibly lazy. Mind you, I don't really want a change to how our psykers work but I feel that it's pretty likely after seeing this
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Psychocouac wrote: Currently the french wargame studio is streaming on the speed freaks.
JohnU wrote: The Evil Sunz relic on a little Mek is a cheap enough upgrade to stuff in a 'Naut if the clan trait is as rumored.
+2" base move, +1" advance and charge helps a lot.
And right now together they're a 21/22PL unit in the Index, so if the 'Nauts get their price drop they'll be able to use the tellyporta too.
According to BattleScribe Gorkanauts are 19PL
+3 for the little Mek. I ASSume the tellyporta will take in to account transported units plus transport as part of the 20PL total.
Oh right, sorry I missed the part about the little mek. Even if it doesnt go down in PL, a (rumored) Evil Suns Naut with +1 to move, advance, charge or a Goff one would still be good in tellyporta
amusing bit is unless they edit the stratagem "Ramming Speed" said Gorkanaut that just Tellyported in can 3D6 charge, making it WAY more likely to get into the fight that same turn. Right now it just says "Vehicle" if i recall correctly.
Also, youre right derp i saw 35 somewhere and for some reason i spaced out the sheet says 45 for a buggie. Ugh. Still gonna buy 1 of each because im a collector anyway, and kitbash the hell out of the others i want lol. Delorkeans are on top of my scratchbuild plate atm....
gungo wrote: ok there buddy you keep thinking that!
Thinking what?
CSM has it.
DG has it.
Eldar have it.
Space Marines have it.
You keep thinking waaagh energy rule is unchanged!
I seriously doubt that considering the psyker relic and the fact GW has been nerfing the heck out of smite spammers.... plus whatever new psyker powers they give us.
The fact we have the same ability like everyone else further confirms our psyker will be more like everyone else.
gungo wrote: ok there buddy you keep thinking that!
Thinking what?
CSM has it.
DG has it.
Eldar have it.
Space Marines have it.
You keep thinking waaagh energy rule is unchanged!
I seriously doubt that considering the psyker relic and the fact GW has been nerfing the heck out of smite spammers.... plus whatever new psyker powers they give us.
The fact we have the same ability like everyone else further confirms our psyker will be more like everyone else.
Holy crap, what are you arguing about? Neither of you know either way, but at least he is assuming a rule that currently exists. You literally pulled an idea out of your and your sidelining the thread over it.
EDIT:
This is from todays community article BTW.
For one, your Clan Kultur gives you a 6+ save against any self-inflicted mortal wounds from Perils of the Warp (of which there will be many).
Psychocouac wrote: Asked the PC cost of the evil sunz stratagem in the chat.
He didn't answer but raised one finger. (and not the middle one!)
I don't expect it to allow charge after the second move for sure but still that's reaaaaaally good.
So between the relic, that strat and the teliporta strat you could have 3 gorkanaughts on there doorstep by turn 2. Sounds like orks are going to be fast.
That Thunderbuss is absurd BTW. Take it on a kombi scortcha and that Git is doing 3d6 s5 ap -1 hits at 8" including overwatch It makes a PK boss super efficient, he can pull anti vehicle and anti horde.
Monster hunter stratagem seems good, but 3CP is maybe a bit steep? Fists of Gork sounds great!
Yeah liking the psychic powers. Mortal wound one seems like a half-decent alternative to smite if opponent is fielding 20+ strong mobs of stuff, fists of gork seems ace for beatstick characters.
PiñaColada wrote: Yeah, but warpcharge 8 seems steep. Not that high warpcharges are usually a problem for orks but in most cases I'd imagine a good ol' smite is better
I dunno, like you said we will usually pass that test assuming the weirdboy rules stay the same. Against a 10+ model unit I would think that this power is certainly better since you can choose the unit and have a good chance to do more than d3 MWs
You could add one to your wounds ALL the time, against all targets, by spending one CP and making them Skarboys.
Why is that 3 CP. Why, why, why.
Yeah the snakebite stratagem should probably be 2 points. That being said this one affects ranged targets as well and is for your whole army (though only against 1 enemy). If youre going up against a LoW its better imo
The move again strat might have some restrictions, it might not. Or rather it might be the same restrictions as quicken/warptime. That you can't use it the same turn you deepstruck but otherwise you're free to do whatever afterwards
Edit: But this stratagem combined with Skarboyz would've been nuts so I get why only Goffs get skarboyz. Imagine wounding a knight on 4+. Could have been 2CP though, but it's still going to be worth it at 3CP in certain situations if you play snakebites I think
Vineheart01 wrote: yeah 3CP for a single model +1 wound rolls against is pretty dang steep....
Isn't it +1 to wound for your entire army? Sounds good for bringing down a Knight or Morty some such. Your 200+ Ork Boys (if in range) and on Dakkadakka now wounding Daemon Primarchs on 4+ or that Knight on 5+ with their shootaz (and of course the bonus to your Dakkajets, Mekguns, etc... whatever the to-wound was before).
The Tau Sept version is 3 CP too, super popular and has the added catch of needing to wound the target first, before you can kick it off.
Vineheart01 wrote: yeah 3CP for a single model +1 wound rolls against is pretty dang steep....
I think it depends on the model being used against. A trygon or something like that? Probably not. A Knight Castellan or Mortarion/Magnus? Yeah its worth it. That being said it only works on Snakebites so you have to commit to that klan to get good use out of it
That article confirmed that the clan trait affects vehicles,
While confirming that it is redundant with cybork, painboys and ramshackle. Aaaand that's why I can't get excited about it. Relative to the other stupidly fantastic clan traits.
The strategem is not worth choosing snakebites. The tactics, wargear and tactics are not worth it. The only thing that really made them look phenomenal was the warlord trait making gretchin auto pass.
Admittedly a gretchin horde defending whatever was behind them sounds strong. I just keep seeing a painboy doing the same thing.
I see them being rarely chosen, esp. because the squig buggy damage output is meh and they were explicit about the 6+ not working with any other post-save ability.
Yeah I dont think that the stratagem is worth taking snakebites over. In that article im most excited for Weirdboys now. There should be a few more powers we havnt seen but the 2 they showed look pretty cool already (assuming we keep the same 3 from the index). So far between the 2 klans id take Goffs
Billagio wrote: OMG that Da Krunch power sounds amazing. Though I guess its not so good vs vehicles/monsters which is what we need help with
It's not really amazing tho. Using math, you realize that you'd need to consistently use it against units of 12+ models with a power that is +3 over smite. It's fairly bad unfortunately unless you're fighting against high cost high body count units (ie bad units). Who cares if you can kill 6 cultists in a unit of 40, its just not cost effective at all.
Yes the Tau one is mean but the Tau one isnt Snakebites (probably one of the weaker but still useful klan rules) and Tau can shoot their entire 2000pts into one model, while only about a third at BEST of an ork army could actually get use of that stratagem since the bulk of us are super inaccurate or melee.
Da Crunch is basically just the C'tan's Seismic Assault, except it has a slight chance of going off twice and is harder to cast. Which is fine I guess, but I never had much luck the C'tan version.
Fists of Gork though is a damned good buff. Give it to Skarboyz for extra hilarity.
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc. A warboss is still S5, right? Give him a claw. He is now S10. mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12. You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
yeah fist of gork will only ever be used on a Warboss or potentially the Painboy for the extra attacks (painboy atleast can wound T6 on a 2+ now with it).
The other characters we got do not want to be in melee, either because theyre squishy or lack a proppa weapon. Dunno bout you but i do NOT want my Waaagh! Banner Nob to be fighting.
Last 5 pages can basically be summed with "wow <ability> is amazing, orks are going to rock" followed by someone saying "read it again, <ability> only affects <small subset of models>".
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc.
A warboss is still S5, right?
Give him a claw. He is now S10.
mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12.
You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
Lol. Try S14.
Warboss have been S6 as they received the furious charge strength buff baked into their statline in the index.
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc. A warboss is still S5, right? Give him a claw. He is now S10. mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12. You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
Actually he would be Str 14 right? Str 5+2 with power = 7x2 with Klaw =14.
You could go above 10 before as well with the Might is Right CA warlord trait
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc. A warboss is still S5, right? Give him a claw. He is now S10. mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12. You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
Lol. Try S14.
Warboss have been S6 as they received the furious charge strength buff baked into their statline in the index.
Ok, that is just filthy. It can now wound T7 on a 2+. I now want a weirdboy, but I hate finecast. Maybe I can convert a Runtherd into one.
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc.
A warboss is still S5, right?
Give him a claw. He is now S10.
mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12.
You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
Actually he would be Str 14 right? Str 5+2 with power = 7x2 with Klaw =14.
You could go above 10 before as well with the Might is Right CA warlord trait
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc.
A warboss is still S5, right?
Give him a claw. He is now S10.
mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12.
You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
Actually he would be Str 14 right? Str 5+2 with power = 7x2 with Klaw =14.
You could go above 10 before as well with the Might is Right CA warlord trait
Big Boss in index is 6 Str. So 16 with Klaw and Fist of Gork.
That's the magic number to wound everything on 2+
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc.
A warboss is still S5, right?
Give him a claw. He is now S10.
mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12.
You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
Actually he would be Str 14 right? Str 5+2 with power = 7x2 with Klaw =14.
You could go above 10 before as well with the Might is Right CA warlord trait
You multiply first before adding. That's how stacking buffs have always worked.
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc.
A warboss is still S5, right?
Give him a claw. He is now S10.
mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12.
You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
Actually he would be Str 14 right? Str 5+2 with power = 7x2 with Klaw =14.
You could go above 10 before as well with the Might is Right CA warlord trait
You multiply first before adding. That's how stacking buffs have always worked.
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc. A warboss is still S5, right? Give him a claw. He is now S10. mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12. You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
Actually he would be Str 14 right? Str 5+2 with power = 7x2 with Klaw =14.
You could go above 10 before as well with the Might is Right CA warlord trait
Big Boss in index is 6 Str. So 16 with Klaw and Fist of Gork. That's the magic number to wound everything on 2+
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc. A warboss is still S5, right? Give him a claw. He is now S10. mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12. You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
Actually he would be Str 14 right? Str 5+2 with power = 7x2 with Klaw =14.
You could go above 10 before as well with the Might is Right CA warlord trait
You multiply first before adding. That's how stacking buffs have always worked.
Vineheart01 wrote: yeah fist of gork will only ever be used on a Warboss or potentially the Painboy for the extra attacks (painboy atleast can wound T6 on a 2+ now with it).
The other characters we got do not want to be in melee, either because theyre squishy or lack a proppa weapon. Dunno bout you but i do NOT want my Waaagh! Banner Nob to be fighting.
I don't know about you, but I hate for even warbossi to get into CC, sadly. Unless they're in mega armor, they get instagibbed by anything worth half of a damn in CC. Even mega armor only goes so far.
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc.
A warboss is still S5, right?
Give him a claw. He is now S10.
mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12.
You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
well, its +2 to his strength characteristic. So the Warboss goes from 5 to 7. then the PK is x2 for S14.
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc.
A warboss is still S5, right?
Give him a claw. He is now S10.
mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12.
You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
Lol. Try S14.
Warboss have been S6 as they received the furious charge strength buff baked into their statline in the index.
If this is true then a Warboss would be Strength 8 before the klaw then 16 after.
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc.
A warboss is still S5, right?
Give him a claw. He is now S10.
mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12.
You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
Actually he would be Str 14 right? Str 5+2 with power = 7x2 with Klaw =14.
You could go above 10 before as well with the Might is Right CA warlord trait
You always multiply strength before adding.
no as per the FAQ you do everything affecting the Strength Characteristic of the model first. Then you do choose your weapon to fight with. So a warboss would be S16 if they are S^ base.
no as per the FAQ you do everything affecting the Strength Characteristic of the model first. Then you do choose your weapon to fight with. So a warboss would be S16 if they are S^ base.
Yeah, I just saw the FAQ. That's pretty nuts. That means he wounds T8 on 2+ now. Give him that klaw relic and you can melt pretty much everything you charge into.
I wouldn't be surprised if GW starts releasing T10+ units. I don't think one exists yet.
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc.
A warboss is still S5, right?
Give him a claw. He is now S10.
mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12.
You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
Actually he would be Str 14 right? Str 5+2 with power = 7x2 with Klaw =14.
You could go above 10 before as well with the Might is Right CA warlord trait
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc.
A warboss is still S5, right?
Give him a claw. He is now S10.
mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12.
You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
Actually he would be Str 14 right? Str 5+2 with power = 7x2 with Klaw =14.
You could go above 10 before as well with the Might is Right CA warlord trait
You always multiply strength before adding.
Right.
s6 * 2 = 12
+2 = 14
You'd think so, but apparently they changed it now so that you modify base characteristics first, and then you use the mods from the weapons.
So you increase the warboss's strength to 8 with Fists of Gork first.
Then you use the power klaw to double his strength to 16.
That's how it works now. I don't like it, and I preferred it when it followed simple BODMAS rules (which was covered on pg 175), but according to the Designer's Commentary FAQ it works like that now.
I really like that weirdboy, would buy again. Shame it's in finecast I have the metal one. Just needs an update into plastic, keep it basically exactly the same and update it into plastic and I'd buy 2 tomorrow.
i still don’t think players will choose these new powers over da jump or warpath( provided they haven’t changed) they’re just allot more useful to your army as a whole.
Guyver 3 wrote: i still don’t think players will choose these new powers over da jump or warpath( provided they haven’t changed) they’re just allot more useful to your army as a whole.
You can if you take multiple Weirdboys. I dunno how psychic powers work, but if they work like C'tan powers then you can't just give everyone Da Jump.
Recent big faq changed psykers to not be able to use the same power other than Smite across the board per phase, not just per psyker (your army of course).
So only one unit can get hit with Da Jump anyway per turn.
Vineheart01 wrote: Recent big faq changed psykers to not be able to use the same power other than Smite across the board per phase, not just per psyker (your army of course).
So only one unit can get hit with Da Jump anyway per turn.
There's that too, but I meant just giving them Da Jump, so that if one Da Jump Weirdboy dies you can have another that can cast it. You can't do that with C'tan; if you choose powers manually, then you need to choose all six powers across all C'tan in the army first before doubling up. If psychic powers work like that, then if you take 2 weirdboys you might as well take Fists of Gork, because you won't be able to take Da Jump a second time.
Guyver 3 wrote: i still don’t think players will choose these new powers over da jump or warpath( provided they haven’t changed) they’re just allot more useful to your army as a whole.
You can if you take multiple Weirdboys. I dunno how psychic powers work, but if they work like C'tan powers then you can't just give everyone Da Jump.
I said da jump or warpath
Orks psykers are only level 1 so only one per turn
I’m just saying teleporting a whole unit across the battlefield or adding 1 attack to 30 models may see more use than random mortal wounds or buffing a single character
CthuluIsSpy wrote: That's how it works now. I don't like it, and I preferred it when it followed simple BODMAS rules (which was covered on pg 175), but according to the Designer's Commentary FAQ it works like that now.
Eh it sorta does work like that; you just forgot the B in your BODMAS; there’s a bracket around (profile strength) before you get to weapons.
If you somehow had a weapon that added +2S and had a rule that doubled strength on a six to hit, or something like that, you’d still be doubling then adding for that weapon, irrespective of the order of the stats, unless they were very careful with their wording.
Not sure why everyone is so excited about the killa klaw. It rerolls wounds, but that's it, it's still D3. If you're wounding on 2 anyway, it's only marginally better.
Didn't the Warphead sneak into one of the leaks? Could have been a translation issue from the French video. An upgraded weirdboy that can cast twice would be nice, especially since we have a full psyker power list.
Still one to be revealed, right? Or did I miss something.
JimOnMars wrote: Not sure why everyone is so excited about the killa klaw. It rerolls wounds, but that's it, it's still D3. If you're wounding on 2 anyway, it's only marginally better.
There's no hit penalty, which is a considerable upgrade over the generic klaw.
JimOnMars wrote: Not sure why everyone is so excited about the killa klaw. It rerolls wounds, but that's it, it's still D3. If you're wounding on 2 anyway, it's only marginally better.
I swear it said Damage 3 in the video (like Ghazzy's klaw).
I seriously hope more than just the Trukk has ramshackle now if thats the case.
Its effectively FNP now, which with the multi-damage mechanic and being a 6+ makes it sorta useless. Only reason i even bother with painboyz is because across 90 boyz...its gonna save a good chunk of them anyway.
Spreelock wrote: According to community page, teleporting could allow full squad of meganobz being deployed. Could this mean they are getting Power level drop?
JimOnMars wrote: Not sure why everyone is so excited about the killa klaw. It rerolls wounds, but that's it, it's still D3. If you're wounding on 2 anyway, it's only marginally better.
Snakebite Tank Bustas seem so good! Pop the Monster Hunters strat with a bunch of Bustas and you'll put a serious dent into any imperial knight!
Could do a vanguard detachment with 3 squads of Tank Bustas, put them in trukks or deepstrike 2 units of them (Da Jump and Tellyport) and blast them to zog!!!
Have you seen a side-by-side comparison of the Weirdnob Shaman?
Spoiler:
Size seems right to me since he's a Weirdnob, not a Weirdboy. Plus you can say that channeling the power of da waaagh makes him bigger.
The model just looks too fantasy esque without heavy conversion.
Google search shows some pretty decent conversion work that doesn's require too much in terms of skill to make a weirdboy out of the Ironjawz shaman. Just stick a few mechanical parts on and he looks the part.
Ah, so it does. Well that's less hilarious. Still a good buff though.
You know, that makes it quite possible to bring a character up to S12 now, as strength no longer caps at 10, iirc.
A warboss is still S5, right?
Give him a claw. He is now S10.
mGive his Fists of Gork. He is now S12.
You can now wound T6 and below on a 2+, and anything from T7-T10 on a 3+.
Lol. Try S14.
Warboss have been S6 as they received the furious charge strength buff baked into their statline in the index.
Ok, that is just filthy. It can now wound T7 on a 2+.
I now want a weirdboy, but I hate finecast. Maybe I can convert a Runtherd into one.
Conversion would be easier from the Ironjaw Shaman. Approx the same size as the Weirdboy model, and the post is already there. Runtherdz is too wee.
Kirasu wrote: The fact that each Relic costs the same another Relic means they have a cost. You have a max of 3 Relic Points for a given army, and if each Relic cost 1 RP (Relic Point) then they have to actually be worth the cost, just like anything else in the game.
Since GW continually makes totally useless Relics they obviously don't understand that.
But it's bloody impossible to have all the relics worth same. How you are going to make relic bolt pistol that's equilavent to Cawl's Wrath? Nevermind relic power sword. There's simply too wide variety of kind of relics you can have for everything be worth same. It's like trying to make grot and gorkanaut worth same point value.
gungo wrote: ok there buddy you keep thinking that!
Thinking what?
CSM has it.
DG has it.
Eldar have it.
Space Marines have it.
You keep thinking waaagh energy rule is unchanged!
I seriously doubt that considering the psyker relic and the fact GW has been nerfing the heck out of smite spammers.... plus whatever new psyker powers they give us.
The fact we have the same ability like everyone else further confirms our psyker will be more like everyone else.
Fits the bill. GW nerfing orks which aren't even brokenly good or in need of a nerf.
Guyver 3 wrote: i still don’t think players will choose these new powers over da jump or warpath( provided they haven’t changed) they’re just allot more useful to your army as a whole.
You can if you take multiple Weirdboys. I dunno how psychic powers work, but if they work like C'tan powers then you can't just give everyone Da Jump.
You can. You can't cast same more than once but with da jump being so useful and ork psykers having annoying habit of perilling and 2 wound weird jump having high chance of perilling and then having 66% of failing due to dying multiples to have redundancy is very good idea. So 2 da jump, maybe da krunch. Warpath has been always utter failure for me.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JimOnMars wrote: Not sure why everyone is so excited about the killa klaw. It rerolls wounds, but that's it, it's still D3. If you're wounding on 2 anyway, it's only marginally better.
No hit and D3(presumably D3 rather than Dd3). Flat 3 is pretty good. Not hitting on 3+ and flat damage is good.
JimOnMars wrote: Not sure why everyone is so excited about the killa klaw. It rerolls wounds, but that's it, it's still D3. If you're wounding on 2 anyway, it's only marginally better.
A) that's DAMAGE 3, not damage D3.
B) no -1 to hit
Eg, hits on 2's, wounds on 2s, rerolls, then 3 damage.
That's slightly better than Ghaz's klaw in the index.
Well you can have it as 2 lots of 10 and 2 squigs in each instead.... but that doesnt make quite the entrance does it and rokkit launchas might go down in pts, but i imagine they will increase the base cost of bustas so that they arent too cheap
TedNugent wrote: I'm not thrilled about the urine boys preview tomorrow.
I will find you, and I will krump you.
I've always liked Bad Moons myself but I could never play them as I hate painting yellow. And also, I'm addicted to speed
Regardless, bad moons seem like they could be one of the stronger klans. 4+ invuln on warboss is a decent trait, rerolling 1's to shoot is really solid with all these shots and their relic is pretty darn effective. I wonder what sort of stratagem they'll get
Multiply your hit chance and number of shots, then divide by six.
Still excited?
Compare that to +1 to your saves against shooting. Or a 6+++. Or a 6++.
4++ is the only cool thing, but even that is competing against other really stronk warlord traits. As much as a 4++ is a requirement for an actual combat character, it's not something that would make me turn down the other clan traits. Now if the 4++ was a relic, 100% my opinion would change.
Any time I see a relic version of one of these little infantry-toted guns, I can't help but giggle at how GW thinks this bolt pistol or whatever is somehow the equivalent to Cawls Wrath.
That's what you get when you decide to have relics, warlord traits etc free in points
You can easily balance the free Warlord traits. You only get one after all, so if the table is small enough it'll be easy. Relics need to go back to costing points though.
Generic:
Your Warlord gains the WAAAGH!!! ability if he doesn't already have it. Additionally, if your army is battleforged, it gains an additional command point.
Add 1 to wound rolls when your warlord attacks a vehicle or monster.
Add 1 to the warlord's toughness.
Reroll hit rolls in fight phase for attacks made by the warlord. Add 1 to the damage characteristic of your warlord's melee weapon if, in the same turn, they finished a charge move, were charged, or made a heroic intervention.
At the start of the first battle round but before the first turn begins, take your warlord and d3 other ork infantry <Clan> units from your army and set them up again as described in the deployment section for the mission you're playing.
Add 1 to your warlord's strength and attacks.
Klan specific:
Bad Moons :4+ invulnerable save
Blood axes: if your warlord is on the battlefield, roll a dice for every command point used. On a 6 that command point is refunded
Deathskulls: warlord re rolls 1s when attacking a vehicle. Enemy characters can be targeted with a shooting attack by this warlord even if they are not the closest unit.
Evil sunz: evil suns units within 6” of the warlord can charge even if they fell back earlier in the turn.
Freebooters: reroll hit rolls of 1’s for attacks made by friendly freebooter models while within 6”s of this warlord.
Goffs: add 1 to this warlords attack characteristic
Snakebites: re roll morale for snakebite units when they are 6”s from this warlord. Gretchin auto pass morale when they are within 12”s of this warlord.
Edit: Forgot to say, I got these from r/orks leak compilation, but they look right from what I remember
Generic:
Your Warlord gains the WAAAGH!!! ability if he doesn't already have it. Additionally, if your army is battleforged, it gains an additional command point.
Add 1 to wound rolls when your warlord attacks a vehicle or monster.
Add 1 to the warlord's toughness.
Reroll hit rolls in fight phase for attacks made by the warlord. Add 1 to the damage characteristic of your warlord's melee weapon if, in the same turn, they finished a charge move, were charged, or made a heroic intervention.
At the start of the first battle round but before the first turn begins, take your warlord and d3 other ork infantry <Clan> units from your army and set them up again as described in the deployment section for the mission you're playing.
Add 1 to your warlord's strength and attacks.
Klan specific:
Bad Moons :4+ invulnerable save
Blood axes: if your warlord is on the battlefield, roll a dice for every command point used. On a 6 that command point is refunded
Deathskulls: warlord re rolls 1s when attacking a vehicle. Enemy characters can be targeted with a shooting attack by this warlord even if they are not the closest unit.
Evil sunz: evil suns units within 6” of the warlord can charge even if they fell back earlier in the turn.
Freebooters: reroll hit rolls of 1’s for attacks made by friendly freebooter models while within 6”s of this warlord.
Goffs: add 1 to this warlords attack characteristic
Snakebites: re roll morale for snakebite units when they are 6”s from this warlord. Gretchin auto pass morale when they are within 12”s of this warlord.
Edit: Forgot to say, I got these from r/orks leak compialtion, but they look right from what I remember
If that's correct, then the Goff one is just plain worse than the generic one.
Well that was part of the original discussion. But they could have changed or written down wrong/poorly in the original leak. But the generic one is a monstrous trait
Geeez, +1 Attack from warlord trait and then another +2 from Fists of Gork. With the New PK (if the leaked stats are true), thats gonna be silly on a warboss
Soo... are Weirdboyz (or psykers in general) able to cast spells from open-topped vehicles? Fists of Gork sounds awesome on my soon-to-be-bought Trikeboss but he'll need a Trukk or Battlewagon to ride to even keep up wiith him (20" movement for Trikeboss T1 most likely).
Pandabeer wrote: Soo... are Weirdboyz (or psykers in general) able to cast spells from open-topped vehicles? Fists of Gork sounds awesome on my soon-to-be-bought Trikeboss but he'll need a Trukk or Battlewagon to ride to even keep up wiith him (20" movement for Trikeboss T1 most likely).
They can't now, so I don't see why they would be able to in the new codex.
Ok, that is just filthy. It can now wound T7 on a 2+.
I now want a weirdboy, but I hate finecast. Maybe I can convert a Runtherd into one.
The totempole dude from the AoS Savage Orruks box works quite well too as a Weirdboy. By pure coincidence I decided to paint the totempole as a traffic light (far before Speed Freeks was announced) so he's the ideal race starter Only have to switch his dagger for a checkered flag now.
Pandabeer wrote: Soo... are Weirdboyz (or psykers in general) able to cast spells from open-topped vehicles? Fists of Gork sounds awesome on my soon-to-be-bought Trikeboss but he'll need a Trukk or Battlewagon to ride to even keep up wiith him (20" movement for Trikeboss T1 most likely).
They can't now, so I don't see why they would be able to in the new codex.
Gotta figure out another way to make him keep up then. Hopefully a normal move + advance is enough to get within 12".
JimOnMars wrote: Not sure why everyone is so excited about the killa klaw. It rerolls wounds, but that's it, it's still D3. If you're wounding on 2 anyway, it's only marginally better.
There's no hit penalty, which is a considerable upgrade over the generic klaw.
Also, aren't regular PKs d3 damage instead of a flat 3? No hit penalty, flat 3 damage is and reroll wounds is HUGE.
Billagio wrote: Geeez, +1 Attack from warlord trait and then another +2 from Fists of Gork. With the New PK (if the leaked stats are true), thats gonna be silly on a warboss
1st detachment (vanguard?) warboss with megaarmour gets badmoon trait for 4++ give him the klaw relic put him with some dudes in a battlewagon, tellyport him (also add in megakannonz, dakkajets and or tankbustaz etc to benifit from the reroll 1's)
2nd detachment (battalion) some other git gets the thinking cap and the snakebite trait. he walks around with auto morale passing gretchins to shield the front lines (do gretchin also get 6++???? )... (u could fit in a weirdboy with da jump here for the 6++) or play somethin speedfreaky (like put the battlewagon from 1st Detachment in here to make it faster and rammier, give a git the redder armor relic or the finkin cap with another trait that benifits your army)
3rd detachment (battalion) add in another detachment with weirdboy, maybe wartrike and 60 skarboyz + 10 gretchin (they'll pay the cp for themselves^^) teleport em in on t1 and t2 (use gretchin to annoy opponent... backfield objectives, area denial or whatever)
1st detachment (vanguard?)
warboss with megaarmour gets badmoon trait for 4++ give him the klaw relic
put him with some dudes in a battlewagon, tellyport him (also add in megakannonz, dakkajets and or tankbustaz etc to benifit from the reroll 1's)
Know you're just brainstorming but there is an issue with putting serious points worth of CC units in a transport to be Tellyported.
They can only arrive T2 (assuming the FAQ for deep strike applies which it almost certainly will) and end of movement phase. So they can't disembark until and hope to get stuck in before T3 :/
t1 i would bet the gretchins to keep my boyz quite safe (depending on how good the gretchin strat is) throw in 30 skarboyz and some kommandoz (maybe some jetbuggys) to keep opponent on his toes
warboss in mega armour shouldnt be too pricey thats maybe 300-400 points (depending what you put in the BW). the battlewagon could use ramming speed for 3d6 charge (with ere we go that should make it quite reliable)
and by t2 i am hopefully also with the rest of the skarboyz in the enemy deployment zone
maybe its even better we cant deepstrike in t1, so at the beginning of t2 he'll have alot of units in his face. target saturation makes the opponent make mistakes
Multiply your hit chance and number of shots, then divide by six.
Still excited?
Compare that to +1 to your saves against shooting. Or a 6+++. Or a 6++.
4++ is the only cool thing, but even that is competing against other really stronk warlord traits. As much as a 4++ is a requirement for an actual combat character, it's not something that would make me turn down the other clan traits. Now if the 4++ was a relic, 100% my opinion would change.
you're assuming that an ork army is 5+ to hit, no exceptions, across the board. That's very much not the case anymore - we have 4+ and 3+ to hit models aplenty. Dakkajets, Wazbombs, Mek Gunz, Dragstas, Flash Gitz. Sure, it's a bit of a niche setup for orks but I think there's enough there to justify it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I am 99% certain that in the kirioth video he said it was +1s +1a on the charge only...
1st detachment (vanguard?)
warboss with megaarmour gets badmoon trait for 4++ give him the klaw relic
put him with some dudes in a battlewagon, tellyport him (also add in megakannonz, dakkajets and or tankbustaz etc to benifit from the reroll 1's)
2nd detachment (battalion)
some other git gets the thinking cap and the snakebite trait. he walks around with auto morale passing gretchins to shield the front lines (do gretchin also get 6++???? )... (u could fit in a weirdboy with da jump here for the 6++)
or play somethin speedfreaky (like put the battlewagon from 1st Detachment in here to make it faster and rammier, give a git the redder armor relic or the finkin cap with another trait that benifits your army)
3rd detachment (battalion)
add in another detachment with weirdboy, maybe wartrike and 60 skarboyz + 10 gretchin (they'll pay the cp for themselves^^) teleport em in on t1 and t2 (use gretchin to annoy opponent... backfield objectives, area denial or whatever)
Wait... can you take Clan specific stratagems with mixed clans? I thought in order to use a stratagem (for a battleforged list), the entire army needs to share the same keywords, not just individual detachments. I'll be thrilled to be mistaken..
1st detachment (vanguard?)
warboss with megaarmour gets badmoon trait for 4++ give him the klaw relic
put him with some dudes in a battlewagon, tellyport him (also add in megakannonz, dakkajets and or tankbustaz etc to benifit from the reroll 1's)
2nd detachment (battalion)
some other git gets the thinking cap and the snakebite trait. he walks around with auto morale passing gretchins to shield the front lines (do gretchin also get 6++???? )... (u could fit in a weirdboy with da jump here for the 6++)
or play somethin speedfreaky (like put the battlewagon from 1st Detachment in here to make it faster and rammier, give a git the redder armor relic or the finkin cap with another trait that benifits your army)
3rd detachment (battalion)
add in another detachment with weirdboy, maybe wartrike and 60 skarboyz + 10 gretchin (they'll pay the cp for themselves^^) teleport em in on t1 and t2 (use gretchin to annoy opponent... backfield objectives, area denial or whatever)
Wait... can you take Clan specific stratagems with mixed clans? I thought in order to use a stratagem (for a battleforged list), the entire army needs to share the same keywords, not just individual detachments. I'll be thrilled to be mistaken..
No I think as long as your army is battle forged you can use any stratagem your army has access to. Its just that klan/chapter specific stratagems most likely only affect units with that keyword.
No, you're right. There is no such thing as clan specific stragems, or chapter specific or craftworld specific. They are merely codex detachment specific that have targeting restrictions.
RedNoak wrote: t1 i would bet the gretchins to keep my boyz quite safe (depending on how good the gretchin strat is) throw in 30 skarboyz and some kommandoz (maybe some jetbuggys) to keep opponent on his toes
warboss in mega armour shouldnt be too pricey
thats maybe 300-400 points (depending what you put in the BW). the battlewagon could use ramming speed for 3d6 charge (with ere we go that should make it quite reliable)
and by t2 i am hopefully also with the rest of the skarboyz in the enemy deployment zone
maybe its even better we cant deepstrike in t1, so at the beginning of t2 he'll have alot of units in his face. target saturation makes the opponent make mistakes
So let\s see. Skarboyz are on T2 10+2d6=17" forward. That's 7" short of his DZ. More if they were deployed behind grots. So T2 they aren't anywhere near enemy DZ. And that BW and contents will be in enemy face on T3 so if he goes first(non-orks often will have +1 so 60% chance for that) he has 2 turns to blow up skarboyz which is easy. If you plan to teleport those as well...Well with BW, it's mega expensive contents, 60 skarboyz and grots...Are you sure you are going to have half of the units AND points deploy normally? Sounds like you are DZ'ing over half the army. And in any case that's 8 CP if you plan to teleport battlewagon, skarboyz and grots)
for the teltyport strat i think we might see a big wave of ork walkers using this. assume all these walkers are evil suns to help improve their charge and allow assault wpns to fire at full BS.
the gorkanaut is the most obvious choice, also it can carry stuff (though what it transports will have to wait the next turn to get stuck in,kff bigmek to give it defense against shooting and an embarked bannernob buffs this to asure it hits on a 2plus). unfortunately the morkanaut wouldn't be so good to telyport unless you desperately need to deploy a kff to cover some of your army in a later turn of the game. (both current mork/gorkanaut are under 20pl)
with current PL we can get a full squad of 6 killakans right up close and personal. with getting more attacks for having 3 in the squad and getting close for decent shooting then they can deal out some pain in melee (maybe da jump a banner nob near them for improved to hit).
.
currently 3 defdredds are 24PL, but we might get lucky and with the possibility of deffdredds getting a pts/pl decrease that we can maybe get a whole squad through the telyporta. due to the "dreddmob" rule, being deployed as a single group it wont split before the telyport and will separate after they pop out. equip all these dredds with nothing but claws and watch them shred the enemy.
edit-though the goff article that revealed the tellyport strat suggests sending meganobz through the telyporta i wouldnt use the tellyporta for any infantry (or speedy units for that matter). da jump doesn't cost cp and can send larger squads of infantry that wont have to restricted by the 20pl, tellyport i believe is best for any slow melee focused vehicle we have...in other words all our walkers
one of the problems with our walkers was their speed. and with a combo of evilsunz kulture and tellyport we can run plausible dreddmobs. lets hope for some nice price decreases for all our walkers (a good sign to see the morkanaut going from 18pl to 15pl).
Yeah deep striking evil sun walkers(evil sun walker...GW good at screwing up clan rules working exactly opposite of how fluff indicates. Evil sun infantry and walker, no bikes etc) will likely be how ork armies will work in future. Too bad that means walkers will be only good with that combo. But yeah deep striking walkers to do killing, tons of grots to hold backfield objectives. Some fast moving trike HQ's etc. Good thing I already had 120 grots!
tneva82 wrote: Yeah deep striking evil sun walkers(evil sun walker...GW good at screwing up clan rules working exactly opposite of how fluff indicates. Evil sun infantry and walker, no bikes etc) will likely be how ork armies will work in future. Too bad that means walkers will be only good with that combo. But yeah deep striking walkers to do killing, tons of grots to hold backfield objectives. Some fast moving trike HQ's etc. Good thing I already had 120 grots!
There is nothing unfluffy about Evil Sunz walkers and boyz. Evil Sunz are not Speed Freeks, they just have the highest proportion of them. All Evil Sunz ladz will start out on foot, they simply dream of the time they get to ride in a trukk, then get their own bike, or buggy, or dakkajet, and save up their teef accordingly.
As it happens, the advancing and shooting at full Bs benefits the faster units too- Evil Sunz is one of the most mentioned clanz for using the new buggies, especially the Dragsta.
There is nothing unfluffy about Evil Sunz walkers and boyz. Evil Sunz are not Speed Freeks, they just have the highest proportion of them. All Evil Sunz ladz will start out on foot, they simply dream of the time they get to ride in a trukk, then get their own bike, or buggy, or dakkajet, and save up their teef accordingly.
As it happens, the advancing and shooting at full Bs benefits the faster units too- Evil Sunz is one of the most mentioned clanz for using the new buggies, especially the Dragsta.
its true, if only we can transport killakans and deffdreds in our transports (like the sm dredd in the stormtalon/droppod) then that can fit closer to that evilsunz like dreddmob. but that is highly unlikely.
if you want our walkers to look the part then add little wheels/tredds to their feet (best found on cheap toys). if you haven't seen anything about the anime "armored trooper votoms" then check it out (see youtube for how these mechs move), thats how i imagine speed based walkers to look like. they wont be as fast as our bikers but with bonus to move and advance and escorted by a dethkilla trike then they become fairly fast and can fit that look and feel of a speedy dreddmob.
tneva82 wrote: Yeah deep striking evil sun walkers(evil sun walker...GW good at screwing up clan rules working exactly opposite of how fluff indicates. Evil sun infantry and walker, no bikes etc) will likely be how ork armies will work in future. Too bad that means walkers will be only good with that combo. But yeah deep striking walkers to do killing, tons of grots to hold backfield objectives. Some fast moving trike HQ's etc. Good thing I already had 120 grots!
There is nothing unfluffy about Evil Sunz walkers and boyz. Evil Sunz are not Speed Freeks, they just have the highest proportion of them. All Evil Sunz ladz will start out on foot, they simply dream of the time they get to ride in a trukk, then get their own bike, or buggy, or dakkajet, and save up their teef accordingly.
As it happens, the advancing and shooting at full Bs benefits the faster units too- Evil Sunz is one of the most mentioned clanz for using the new buggies, especially the Dragsta.
Advancing and shooting with weapons that don't need to advance and shoot to shoot into target. When you have 14" movement and weapon that isn't flamer ranged you don't NEED to advance. You are in range anyway. And likely don't even WANT closer where enemy then can tag you in h2h and prevent you from shooting. Vehicles want to be blood axes for fall back and assault or bad moon for reroll 1's(especially handy for the dragsta with it's plasma weapons) or possibly deth skull(6++ and reroll 1 dice which could be useful for buggies with low number of shots). About least usefull clan traits(after goff) is evil sun. You take evil sun, you are handicapping yourself in a codex that looks very much like lower average strength.
And evil sunz want to go fast. Even without speed freaks they are supposed to be using lots of fast stuff. Precisely the kind of stuff that you are handicapping yourself with evil sun clan trait.
Nob bikers with Kombi skorchas, that can move 15", then advance 4.5", then fire 6 dakkagun shots and 2 shoot a shots at 5+ then fire a skorcha, then assault 2d6+1 with either or both dice rerolls using your deffkilla wartrike is just handicapped.
Or the buggies that also have flamers and close combat weapons. Hmmmm
Nob bikers with Kombi skorchas, that can move 15", then advance 4.5", then fire 6 dakkagun shots and 2 shoot a shots at 5+ then fire a skorcha, then assault 2d6+1 with either or both dice rerolls using your deffkilla wartrike is just handicapped.
Or the buggies that also have flamers and close combat weapons. Hmmmm
Well hopefully the kombiskorchas have gotten a bit cheaper but GW seem to overvalue the flamers in general. Also, the shoota bits would hit a 6+, no? Since you're shooting both profiles.
Anyways, I choose to be optimistic rather than pessimistic in our wait for the codex. Maybe we'll get a few losers but I really think our codex will end up really strong. Personally I'd hope we aren't even the go-to best army out there with a singular build but rather just strong and solid overall with a plethora of good to great builds
Nob bikers with Kombi skorchas, that can move 15", then advance 4.5", then fire 6 dakkagun shots and 2 shoot a shots at 5+ then fire a skorcha, then assault 2d6+1 with either or both dice rerolls using your deffkilla wartrike is just handicapped.
Or the buggies that also have flamers and close combat weapons. Hmmmm
having recently gone to a tournament with 15 total skorcha buggies i would've killed to have the blood axe clan trait. instead of speed of the evilsunz it would've been more beneficial to be able to get out of combat and still shoot with all my skorchas. it was very often too easy for my opponents to stun lock away my main shooting units. so in the case of getting close for flamer attacks its better to use bloodaxes. infact the bloodaxe trait would be better for melee units if you want to easily charge multiple targets (especially the boomblasta to maximize its mortal wounds)(like instances of getting locked into combat with enemy chaff).
yeah, evil suns just seems way better for any ork unit that is naturaly slow. and it seems better to take other clan traits for our already fast units.
TedNugent wrote: Right, but even then evil sunz walkers are gonna be dope.
The infantry are going to be redonk fast. Even evil sunz meganobz and bosses will be faster than boys from other clans.
Storm boys, buggies, and transports will be flying down the board.
Oh, absolutely. I also think the snakebite stratagem (and relic) or goffs skarboyz and to some extent klan trait present a good argument for trying out other klans than just evil sunz that everyone had originally feared. Actually almost all klans seem like they could be strong so far IMO. Do9n't get me wrong, I play evil sunz so I love the stuff we've seen from them so far but I'd hate it if other players felt forced to take them as well.
tneva82 wrote: Yeah deep striking evil sun walkers(evil sun walker...GW good at screwing up clan rules working exactly opposite of how fluff indicates. Evil sun infantry and walker, no bikes etc) will likely be how ork armies will work in future. Too bad that means walkers will be only good with that combo. But yeah deep striking walkers to do killing, tons of grots to hold backfield objectives. Some fast moving trike HQ's etc. Good thing I already had 120 grots!
There is nothing unfluffy about Evil Sunz walkers and boyz. Evil Sunz are not Speed Freeks, they just have the highest proportion of them. All Evil Sunz ladz will start out on foot, they simply dream of the time they get to ride in a trukk, then get their own bike, or buggy, or dakkajet, and save up their teef accordingly.
As it happens, the advancing and shooting at full Bs benefits the faster units too- Evil Sunz is one of the most mentioned clanz for using the new buggies, especially the Dragsta.
NO!
NO!
ALL evil sunz must be bikers and buggies, ALL White Scars must be biker space marines, ALL World Eaters must be only khorne bezerkers, ALL units in a farsight army must be battlesuits! Nothing Else Is Fluffy!
(See above for "how did the Space Wolves get the way they are in the current edition")
Am I literally the only person who’s going to play my Orks as the Clan they’re painted as, rather than trying to cheese the most effective rules for any given unit?
Nazrak wrote: Am I literally the only person who’s going to play my Orks as the Clan they’re painted as, rather than trying to cheese the most effective rules for any given unit?
Yes. You’re literally the last human being to do that since about 2004.
Nazrak wrote: Am I literally the only person who’s going to play my Orks as the Clan they’re painted as, rather than trying to cheese the most effective rules for any given unit?
I will as well. My evil sunz could never pretend to be something they're not
Nazrak wrote: Am I literally the only person who’s going to play my Orks as the Clan they’re painted as, rather than trying to cheese the most effective rules for any given unit?
Nazrak wrote: Am I literally the only person who’s going to play my Orks as the Clan they’re painted as, rather than trying to cheese the most effective rules for any given unit?
Special rules that depends on the paint on your miniatures is annoying, I play them as they are painted.
the_scotsman wrote: ALL evil sunz must be bikers and buggies, ALL White Scars must be biker space marines, ALL World Eaters must be only khorne bezerkers, ALL units in a farsight army must be battlesuits! Nothing Else Is Fluffy!
Yeah, I really like 8th edition moved away from that garbage and encourages 'broad strokes' bonuses now. White Scars having bonuses to 'hit and run' tactics allowing for wide army composition instead of dumb 'all the bikes all the time' which is really unfluffy (hello, they are Codex chapter, remember?), World Eaters with bonuses to assaults, not just 'all berzerkerz all the time' - 8th books are far better in fluffy lists department than anything 40K in at least a decade if not two. All they need is a bit better balance, really...
Nazrak wrote: Am I literally the only person who’s going to play my Orks as the Clan they’re painted as, rather than trying to cheese the most effective rules for any given unit?
Nazrak wrote: Am I literally the only person who’s going to play my Orks as the Clan they’re painted as, rather than trying to cheese the most effective rules for any given unit?
My orkz are painted like the ones in first dawn of war game, so they are evil sunz and i will be using them as evil sunz. Any detachment i add to them that uses different clan rules, will be painted as that clan. Orkz dont look bad on the board with multiple different clan colours.
Nazrak wrote: Am I literally the only person who’s going to play my Orks as the Clan they’re painted as, rather than trying to cheese the most effective rules for any given unit?
Everyone has to decide that for themselves really. I personally haven't decided exactly what I'm going to do. Core and paint scheme will be Evil Sunz (cos I need to go FASTA!) but whether everything will use Evil Sunz rules? Probably will depend on what kind of match I play. In a casual match everything will be Sunz but don't be surprised if my Flash Gitz and Mek Gunz are suddenly Bad Moons at a tournament.
Nazrak wrote: Am I literally the only person who’s going to play my Orks as the Clan they’re painted as, rather than trying to cheese the most effective rules for any given unit?
I'm with you too - I have Goffs and Bad Moon.. since I'll be painting some of the new stuff, if I want to use Evil Sunz I'll paint them as a new detachment. Other wise I'll just paint them as one of the clans I have and just enjoy those traits. I don't play in tournaments so I'm not really bothered by 'the most effective rules' anyway.
Nazrak wrote: Am I literally the only person who’s going to play my Orks as the Clan they’re painted as, rather than trying to cheese the most effective rules for any given unit?
Special rules that depends on the paint on your miniatures is annoying, I play them as they are painted.
Wouldn't it depend more on whatever you wrote on the list? As long as you tell your opponent first and its documented, it shouldn't really matter what the paint scheme is.
Nazrak wrote: Am I literally the only person who’s going to play my Orks as the Clan they’re painted as, rather than trying to cheese the most effective rules for any given unit?
Special rules that depends on the paint on your miniatures is annoying, I play them as they are painted.
Wouldn't it depend more on whatever you wrote on the list? As long as you tell your opponent first and its documented, it shouldn't really matter what the paint scheme is.
Nazrak wrote: Am I literally the only person who’s going to play my Orks as the Clan they’re painted as, rather than trying to cheese the most effective rules for any given unit?
I will...but mine are painted as different clans. Mixing clans is both incredibly fuffy and the only way I can keep myself painting when I have hundreds of Ork models.
Use the faction rules that fit your play style. They have nothing to do with your paint jobs, and will change and adapt over time. Best to paint the army the way you want, then use the rules that best fit it.
I'm with Grumble. I got tired of painting yellow after awhile, so mixing it up with blue and black.
Not playing as painted. I have all the clans represented in my force because, under the current codex, I can. I will not be repainting anything. At best I’ll paint a Warboss for the clans I will be using.
Clan rules for me represent nothing more than an expanded Warlord trait of some kind.
Latro_ wrote: Anyone done much digging on the forge world index for orks to see if any of the stuff we know so far would be good?
such a shame a gargantuan squigoth is 21power!
KILL TANK near a mekshop maybe? 36 s6 -1 dmg shots?
or BATTLEWAGON WITH SUPA-KANNON - 12 s8 -2 3dmg
Problem with that is that (6d6)*2 >36 on average. So even if you can get 36 shots T2, if you would have made a shooting attack in both T1 and T2 it would've been better. There are some niche applications for it (you don't have a good target T1 or something, or get the movement boost on a Gorkanaut so you can stay out of range of powerful short-ranged weaponry T1 but can charge T2) but it's far from an auto-include.
Nazrak wrote: Am I literally the only person who’s going to play my Orks as the Clan they’re painted as, rather than trying to cheese the most effective rules for any given unit?
Mine are mostly goff. So yeah I don't think the rules are really benefiting me right now. Would prefered they were painted up like Evil Sunz or Bad Moons but there you go. I got . And I won't be cheesing it either (as you put it).
Latro_ wrote: Anyone done much digging on the forge world index for orks to see if any of the stuff we know so far would be good?
such a shame a gargantuan squigoth is 21power!
KILL TANK near a mekshop maybe? 36 s6 -1 dmg shots?
or BATTLEWAGON WITH SUPA-KANNON - 12 s8 -2 3dmg
Problem with that is that (6d6)*2 >36 on average. So even if you can get 36 shots T2, if you would have made a shooting attack in both T1 and T2 it would've been better. There are some niche applications for it (you don't have a good target T1 or something, or get the movement boost on a Gorkanaut so you can stay out of range of powerful short-ranged weaponry T1 but can charge T2) but it's far from an auto-include.
Also something people seem to not notice is that the rules are:
Skip a turn shooting with ALL weapons, in order to have one turn of maximum shots from ONE weapon.
People get excited by maximum shots, but as pointed out 2*average D6 rolls > 0+max D6 rolls and on top of this you've missed shooting with all weapons to 'boost' (which is a net loss over the 2 turns) one weapon for one turn.
Nazrak wrote: Am I literally the only person who’s going to play my Orks as the Clan they’re painted as, rather than trying to cheese the most effective rules for any given unit?
Mine are mostly goff. So yeah I don't think the rules are really benefiting me right now. Would prefered they were painted up like Evil Sunz or Bad Moons but there you go. I got . And I won't be cheesing it either (as you put it).
I'd do goff anyway lol. Goff Gorkanuaghts are going to be savage. Heck a lot of the Goff things will be. You get Gaz plus you can make another guy super scary as well with the relic claw, the wralord trait plus the psychic buff name is slipping my pre coffee brain) S16 with 7 attacks that generate more on 6's hitting on 2's wounding a knight on 2's rerolling failures for 3 damage? Yes please
Even a list with 3 trikes linking up with 3 teliporta gorkanaughts sounds so terrifying
Scarboys are awesome too, the trick with them is not to go to crazy, just take a single unit and protect it with either the strat or a Bwagon.
Edit
I will say though, a very close second or maybe tie for first is blood axes. Everyone is going nuts over the evil sunz but a 2+ save on walkers (again orkanaughts) or 1+ on meganobz PLUS the all important fall back and reassault. I actually really like how good all the ork traits are, the only one that is kinda crappy is the poor snakebites since you are flat better off as deffskulls and you already can get their bonus in other ways without their trait.
I dont think I will be. My opponents dont particularly care too much what color my stuff is as long as they know what is what. I like having my boyz be all different colors representing the different clans, even if their trait doesnt correspond. Plus I dont want to repaint 200 models
Well for me i will be (as always been) Blood Axes all the way!
Don't care about the damn rules! I know, I know, minority. But my orks are more a modelling project.
). On a 6+ gain +1 shots for one weapon for the rest of the game.
Feel free to expand and collaborate the idea! 
(pts value may change)
)... (u could fit in a weirdboy with da jump here for the 6++)
