Haighus wrote: How good are tankbuster bomms, especially in comparison to stikkbomms? Is it much of a benefit to "suddenly" have them in Boyz and Kommando mobs?
They are great and one of our best damage profiles:
d3 str8 ap-2 d6 only issue is 6in range...and the fact kommandos still need to hit with their shooting!
Grenade d3 s8 ap-2 D6 damage. That's pretty solid for a freebie boost to those units anti tank power, and something to actually talk about when you think about a unit of tankbustas using that grenade strat with rerolls to hit vs vehicles.
Oh yeah a unit of tankbustas can now casually double their damage within 6" for 1cp? Sounds pretty tasty.
Another thought about a headscratcher nerf: Runtherds currently give GRETCHIN units a reroll of 1 to hit. If that rule is unchanged that applies to Killa Kanz. I'd be ok with that. Also, the Snakebites warlord trait gives Killa Kanz immunity to morale within 12. Since you don't care about kultur if you're running kan wall, Snakebites for morale immunity on your now 45pt minimum Kanz is pretty aces (down from 57 minimum in codex.)
apparently tank bustas have been nerfed. They now only re roll ones against vehicles not reroll everything? Can someone confirm that please? If so this is a gigantic nerf for Tank bustas!
mortar_crew wrote: I just laught loud when I saw the boyz can aslo have
tankbuster bomms for 0 additionnal cost!
3 in a unit of 30, with 3 rokkits, now we are talking!
Thing are looking better.
for 0 you might as well take them, do they replace any weapons?
lolman1c wrote: apparently tank bustas have been nerfed. They now only re roll ones against vehicles not reroll everything? Can someone confirm that please? If so this is a gigantic nerf for Tank bustas!
Pretty sure that guy just made a random reading error. I squinted at the codex in the video for a minute and I'm sure there is no "of 1" printed in that sentence.
This coded sounds kinda knee jerk reaction where they nerfed units people were using and tried to boost some units people weren’t without any real idea of balance.
So people are using Boyz, warbosses, painboyz, stormboys, KMK Mek guns? Nerf
People aren’t using Gretchin, deff dreads, nauts, trukks, meganobs or kommandos anymore? Buff
Saying that there is definitely a decent build or two in this codex...Boyz blobs can still work kinda....dreads have a usable but not competitive build, and trukk Boyz might have a roll as well, none of those seem truly competitive though... i think the competitive lists are going to lean heavily in the index (and index costs) using warboss on bike w relic klaw, painboy on bike w lukky stikk, zhardsnark, trike boss, skar Boyz w Gretchin screen as a base. Maybe morkanaut and maybe kommandos if recent leaks are true.
gungo wrote: i think the competitive lists are going to lean heavily in the index using warboss on bike w relic klaw, painboy on bike w lukky stikk, zhardsnark, trike boss, skar Boyz w Gretchin screen as a base.
Maybe that works in the States, but here in Europe the Index units are effectively banned, because the ETC forbids them and the entire competitive scene follows ETC.
It looks some good stuff in the 'Dex, along with some strange point gains. (painboy, runtherds?)
However, what I am most frustrated about are the removal of options. Both in terms of models; non MANz Big mek with KFF, (MANz Warboss, all warbiker HQ's etc.) and the kits with no alternate options. (All the buggies.)
One of the strengths of Geedubs in the past was that it allowed you construct your models with what you thought was best (competitive,) or what looks coolest, (casual.) I guess those days are gone. I really don't want a world of one kit, no options going forward for any factions....
gungo wrote: i think the competitive lists are going to lean heavily in the index using warboss on bike w relic klaw, painboy on bike w lukky stikk, zhardsnark, trike boss, skar Boyz w Gretchin screen as a base.
Maybe that works in the States, but here in Europe the Index units are effectively banned, because the ETC forbids them and the entire competitive scene follows ETC.
Ouch that sucks to bad even warhammer workd allows the index as well as the itc, maybe that will change when the last few armies get thier books.
gungo wrote: i think the competitive lists are going to lean heavily in the index using warboss on bike w relic klaw, painboy on bike w lukky stikk, zhardsnark, trike boss, skar Boyz w Gretchin screen as a base.
Maybe that works in the States, but here in Europe the Index units are effectively banned, because the ETC forbids them and the entire competitive scene follows ETC.
Yeah, few places here also said you can;t use anything from the index in their tournaments.
Here's a list of points changes from INDEX (NOT CA) to codex.
Battlewagon Down 40
Gunwagon/Bonecrusha added down 20 from battlewagon
Deff dread down 19
Flash git up 4 (rumored 4+ armor, S6 ap-2 D2 gun)
Gorkanaut down 45
Morkanaut down 50
Killa kan down 11
Mek gunz Down 7, now (?) Include krew in price
Trukk down 21
Stompa down 50
Snikrot up 1 (he was just oooone point too good)
Ghaz up 20
Mad dok up 15
Boyz up 1
Stormboyz up 1
Warboss up 10
Burna Boyz down 2
Nobz down 3
Noy bikes down 4
Warbikes down 4
Painboy up 12(? Illegible)
Runtherd up 9
Deffcopta down 25
Meganobz now 20
Big shootas down 1 (tl version down 4)
Bubblechukka down 3
Killkannon down 13
Kombirokkit down 8
Kombiscorcha down 2
Kopta rokkit down 4
Kmk up 22
Kombishoota down 2
Sag down 20
Traktor up 15
TBS down 4
Big Choppa down 4
Dred Klaws down 15 on first
Dred saw added at 10, kan klaw still 0, drilla added at 0 (new kan weapons)
Killsaw down 13/15
Pk down 12
the_scotsman wrote: Here's a list of points changes from INDEX (NOT CA) to codex.
Battlewagon Down 40
Gunwagon/Bonecrusha added down 20 from battlewagon
Deff dread down 19
Flash git up 4 (rumored 4+ armor, S6 ap-2 D2 gun)
Gorkanaut down 45
Morkanaut down 50
Killa kan down 11
Mek gunz Down 7, now (?) Include krew in price
Trukk down 21
Stompa down 50
Snikrot up 1 (he was just oooone point too good)
Ghaz up 20
Mad dok up 15
Boyz up 1
Stormboyz up 1
Warboss up 10
Burna Boyz down 2
Nobz down 3
Noy bikes down 4
Warbikes down 4
Painboy up 12(? Illegible)
Runtherd up 9
Deffcopta down 25
Meganobz now 20
Big shootas down 1 (tl version down 4)
Bubblechukka down 3
Killkannon down 13
Kombirokkit down 8
Kombiscorcha down 2
Kopta rokkit down 4
Kmk up 22
Kombishoota down 2
Sag down 20
Traktor up 15
TBS down 4
Big Choppa down 4
Dred Klaws down 15 on first
Dred saw added at 10, kan klaw still 0, drilla added at 0 (new kan weapons)
Killsaw down 13/15
Pk down 12
Gaaaah! Ork army nerfed into oblivion when it needed buffs!!!! /Sarcasm
Thanks for the info folks. So ladz are basically forced to pay 10 points for the bomb. Thats not great, but it is better than just goimg up 1pt per model for nothing!
They were already 4+ armour in the index it must be noted.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Haighus wrote: Thanks for the info folks. So ladz are basically forced to pay 10 points for the bomb. Thats not great, but it is better than just goimg up 1pt per model for nothing!
Haighus wrote: Thanks for the info folks. So ladz are basically forced to pay 10 points for the bomb. Thats not great, but it is better than just goimg up 1pt per model for nothing!
Looking over the changes, Boyz blobz got a heavy hit while trukk Boyz came out looking pretty solid. The only exception is the one big blob you pop in with da jump to distract and clear chaff - they get a fight twice strat and improved odds to get in. Mob up 30 and 10 and da jump them in, watch them tear up.
Everything nobz got some long, sensuous loving with points drops in all directions and a couple really interesting new build options particularly double Choppa nobz. 12 double Choppa nobz looting their trukk as they leave throw 61 S5 attacks, W2 3+ save for 14ppm.
We iz da best assault Marines!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: check your index lolman.
Haighus wrote: Thanks for the info folks. So ladz are basically forced to pay 10 points for the bomb. Thats not great, but it is better than just goimg up 1pt per model for nothing!
Looking over the changes, Boyz blobz got a heavy hit while trukk Boyz came out looking pretty solid. The only exception is the one big blob you pop in with da jump to distract and clear chaff - they get a fight twice strat and improved odds to get in. Mob up 30 and 10 and da jump them in, watch them tear up.
Everything nobz got some long, sensuous loving with points drops in all directions and a couple really interesting new build options particularly double Choppa nobz. 12 double Choppa nobz looting their trukk as they leave throw 61 S5 attacks, W2 3+ save for 14ppm.
We iz da best assault Marines!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: check your index lolman.
4+ on nobz, 6+ on flash git.
sorry, i was looking at their BS+ for some reason. XD
yeah, I basically figured out I can improve my boyz horde over all (when I finally paint um up) by taking two weird boyz, giving them +1A, da jumping them, making them snake bites and attacking twice. Plus a 9" away lets me throw the 3 bombs and fire 3 rokkits... I do like what the codex is allowing me to abuse. XD I just feel bad for mah mates lootas. XD
Gaaaah! Ork army nerfed into oblivion when it needed buffs!!!! /Sarcasm
The lack of sarcasm tag would have made that post indistinguishable from "real" ork posters.
They're absolutely exhausting. Math when it suits then, anecdotes when it doesen't and dismissal without consideration of any dissent from the dissent.
Rinkydink wrote: It looks some good stuff in the 'Dex, along with some strange point gains. (painboy, runtherds?)
However, what I am most frustrated about are the removal of options. Both in terms of models; non MANz Big mek with KFF, (MANz Warboss, all warbiker HQ's etc.) and the kits with no alternate options. (All the buggies.)
One of the strengths of Geedubs in the past was that it allowed you construct your models with what you thought was best (competitive,) or what looks coolest, (casual.) I guess those days are gone. I really don't want a world of one kit, no options going forward for any factions....
Hey, now, the trike boss has an alternative head for the driver! What other options could Orks possibly need?!
+1A and da jump has been attempted since index came out. It sounds good but a) it requires 2 weirdboys that have habit of perilling so it's basically 1 time trick reliably. Then it's 50-50 whether unit charges or will get vaporised. Any chaff will make that useless. And frankly in most cases if you get that charge you don't NEED that warpath. You don't even need choppa. Shoota mob will do just fine. Issue isn't generally with # of attacks. It's been getting there safely. Foot slogging in a game where sub-standard gunline deletes 60+ model a turn isn't working and da jump is 50-50 of charge or simply get deleted(and make model deletion rate FASTER so you lose more than 60 model per turn you da jump boyz ahead). That or you are up against something like knight where you struggle anyway. Even warpathed choppa unit will do just 6 wounds with choppas.
The klan to use is, as with basically everything that involves h2h in new codex, evil sun. Then it's actually better than 50-50 do you get to charge(most likely chaff) or will you simply get deleted.
Unless that fight twice strategem is snakebite only there's no reason to take snakebite for that. Evil sun is the alaitoc of ork codex. And frankly...Fight twice 50-50 odds or fight once reliably?
Hopefully this will help with the discussion on reviewing the index points v codex points for base model cost (I haven't had the time to do the wargear yet)
I've done this from the photo leaks but its hard to read some of the numbers, any mistakes let me know.
tneva82 wrote: +1A and da jump has been attempted since index came out. It sounds good but a) it requires 2 weirdboys that have habit of perilling so it's basically 1 time trick reliably. Then it's 50-50 whether unit charges or will get vaporised. Any chaff will make that useless. And frankly in most cases if you get that charge you don't NEED that warpath. You don't even need choppa. Shoota mob will do just fine. Issue isn't generally with # of attacks. It's been getting there safely. Foot slogging in a game where sub-standard gunline deletes 60+ model a turn isn't working and da jump is 50-50 of charge or simply get deleted(and make model deletion rate FASTER so you lose more than 60 model per turn you da jump boyz ahead). That or you are up against something like knight where you struggle anyway. Even warpathed choppa unit will do just 6 wounds with choppas.
The klan to use is, as with basically everything that involves h2h in new codex, evil sun. Then it's actually better than 50-50 do you get to charge(most likely chaff) or will you simply get deleted.
Unless that fight twice strategem is snakebite only there's no reason to take snakebite for that. Evil sun is the alaitoc of ork codex. And frankly...Fight twice 50-50 odds or fight once reliably?
The snakebites is for the protection (and because it's cheaper to bring a weirdboy than a painboy).... but you are right that evil sunz would basically guarantee a charge. However, I was morning thinking about a back up while my evil sunz detachment does charge in. It's more "send in the first wave" kinda thing I'm thinking and cheap CP. 2 weirboyz (that can buff anything if they want) with having 2 powers, 2 squads of 30 boyz and 1 squad of grots. 30 boyz zap up while evil sunz get ready. Second boyz come in turn 2 while the evil sunz fill in gabs and hit elite units. It might work...
Hopefully this will help with the discussion on reviewing the index points v codex points for base model cost (I haven't had the time to do the wargear yet)
I've done this from the photo leaks but its hard to read some of the numbers, any mistakes let me know.
This is awesome, can you add average cost decrease for the codex as a whole (including units that didnt move on points)
Hopefully this will help with the discussion on reviewing the index points v codex points for base model cost (I haven't had the time to do the wargear yet)
I've done this from the photo leaks but its hard to read some of the numbers, any mistakes let me know.
This is awesome, can you add average cost decrease for the codex as a whole (including units that didnt move on points)
I mean you could but that's gonna be pretty pointless/misleading since, as with any codex, the most common change is gonna be from 0pts to 0pts (weapons baked into the cost of units)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, how do you figure you can deep strike and throw 3 Busta bombs when they're both 6" range and grenades?
Why all the excitement around tank busta bombs in Boys squad?
That's 6 inch range 1d3 shots hitting on 5s without the stratagem so likely 0 hits. I get if you hit and wound it's exciting but you're only throwing this once per squad.
For me this is a buff to MSU boys and kommando squads, which helps me and my list greatly, but for those of you running hundreds of boys in blocks of 30, I'm not seeing the amazing benefit here?
We need the true points differential with war gear ideally.
lolman1c wrote: apparently tank bustas have been nerfed. They now only re roll ones against vehicles not reroll everything? Can someone confirm that please? If so this is a gigantic nerf for Tank bustas!
Pretty sure that guy just made a random reading error. I squinted at the codex in the video for a minute and I'm sure there is no "of 1" printed in that sentence.
From the multiple bat reps I have seen that have included Tankbustas they were still rerolling all hits, so I think that must have been a reading mistake as suggested. I did not see any squig bombs being used though, which would be a real shame if they were removed.
been testing out my Morky... the only problem I can find is because I'm putting out more shot I'm always taking a mortal wound every turn... kinda feel at this point I don't know why they make us take a mortal wound as I'm getting no bonus from firing it while a knight can happily fire his weapons with no problem.
Rinkydink wrote: It looks some good stuff in the 'Dex, along with some strange point gains. (painboy, runtherds?)
However, what I am most frustrated about are the removal of options. Both in terms of models; non MANz Big mek with KFF, (MANz Warboss, all warbiker HQ's etc.) and the kits with no alternate options. (All the buggies.)
One of the strengths of Geedubs in the past was that it allowed you construct your models with what you thought was best (competitive,) or what looks coolest, (casual.) I guess those days are gone. I really don't want a world of one kit, no options going forward for any factions....
Hey, now, the trike boss has an alternative head for the driver! What other options could Orks possibly need?!
Well it should have been nice to have the same treatment for the srcapjet: you can take a three vehicule squadron, but the kit does not have
even a spare head on the sprue. Sure we can use some leftovers from a dakkajet or the like but still.
They could have crammed at least one spare head there also.
That's 6 inch range 1d3 shots hitting on 5s without the stratagem so likely 0 hits. I get if you hit and wound it's exciting but you're only throwing this once per squad.
For me this is a buff to MSU boys and kommando squads, which helps me and my list greatly, but for those of you running hundreds of boys in blocks of 30, I'm not seeing the amazing benefit here?
We need the true points differential with war gear ideally.
If there’s something like a Dread in range, spend the CPs for the Stikkbommz Stratagem, which lets you chuck more Grenade Weapons. I think it’s up to 10 (do not quote me on that). It’s a nasty extra threat, that can help deal with otherwise one sided and deeply unpleasant situations. If as others say it’s 1 in 10 that can pack them, a full Mob is bunging out 3D3 Tankbusta Bommz.
It’s also fairly handy in case you manage to catch an enemy character out of position, with at least some chance of seriously hurting them.
Sure, it’s not something one revolves an entire plan around. But it’s still an extra option for precisely no extra points. Only takes a modicum of good fortune to do some real damage.
Gaaaah! Ork army nerfed into oblivion when it needed buffs!!!! /Sarcasm
The lack of sarcasm tag would have made that post indistinguishable from "real" ork posters.
They're absolutely exhausting. Math when it suits then, anecdotes when it doesen't and dismissal without consideration of any dissent from the dissent.
Sort of like you guys? This is typical dakka, honestly.
lolman1c wrote: been testing out my Morky... the only problem I can find is because I'm putting out more shot I'm always taking a mortal wound every turn... kinda feel at this point I don't know why they make us take a mortal wound as I'm getting no bonus from firing it while a knight can happily fire his weapons with no problem.
The Kustom mega zappa is also a lot cheaper than any knight weapon.
Gaaaah! Ork army nerfed into oblivion when it needed buffs!!!! /Sarcasm
The lack of sarcasm tag would have made that post indistinguishable from "real" ork posters.
They're absolutely exhausting. Math when it suits then, anecdotes when it doesen't and dismissal without consideration of any dissent from the dissent.
Sort of like you guys? This is typical dakka, honestly.
Well, I have little patience for emotional appeals devoid of analysis especially when people haven't even put models on the table.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If there’s something like a Dread in range, spend the CPs for the Stikkbommz Stratagem, which lets you chuck more Grenade Weapons. I think it’s up to 10 (do not quote me on that). It’s a nasty extra threat, that can help deal with otherwise one sided and deeply unpleasant situations. If as others say it’s 1 in 10 that can pack them, a full Mob is bunging out 3D3 Tankbusta Bommz.
It’s also fairly handy in case you manage to catch an enemy character out of position, with at least some chance of seriously hurting them.
Sure, it’s not something one revolves an entire plan around. But it’s still an extra option for precisely no extra points. Only takes a modicum of good fortune to do some real damage.
Thanks for the reply.
I get what you're saying, I'm not sure its worth the CP spend or the extra point but no doubt it helps Boys be a bit more flexible.
Knowing my rolling I'd have 3 shots and miss all of them, feeling rather foolish for spending the CP. The character thing could be cheeky, if it worked.
Pretty sure the exciting thing is just being able to have them. No number crunching required. And you just know it’ll work really well when nobody expects it to, least of all your opponent :p.
And with DDD, you could get six hits on the enemy. Chances are of course astronomical. But since when did the Doce Gods care for averages
If there’s something like a Dread in range, spend the CPs for the Stikkbommz Stratagem, which lets you chuck more Grenade Weapons. I think it’s up to 10 (do not quote me on that). It’s a nasty extra threat, that can help deal with otherwise one sided and deeply unpleasant situations. If as others say it’s 1 in 10 that can pack them, a full Mob is bunging out 3D3 Tankbusta Bommz.
It’s also fairly handy in case you manage to catch an enemy character out of position, with at least some chance of seriously hurting them.
Sure, it’s not something one revolves an entire plan around. But it’s still an extra option for precisely no extra points. Only takes a modicum of good fortune to do some real damage.
This. Also it's throwing a bone to units that were completely harmless vs other types of units. It's not a game changer but it's something.
Also, you can have additional rolls on 6, and possibly on 1s.
For a Knight player, there’s also the ridiculously small chance you might overwatch and do some appreciable damage.
Sure it’ll still kick your face off in HTH, but there’s at least some chance it won’t be so incredibly one sided.
I reckon it’ll be most useful for Da Jump, and hopefully (no more than hopefully) blowing away a key synergy character, before running around like headless chickens making as much of a mess as one can.
All about the sheer potential, not the outright reliability
Gaaaah! Ork army nerfed into oblivion when it needed buffs!!!! /Sarcasm
The lack of sarcasm tag would have made that post indistinguishable from "real" ork posters.
They're absolutely exhausting. Math when it suits then, anecdotes when it doesen't and dismissal without consideration of any dissent from the dissent.
Sort of like you guys? This is typical dakka, honestly.
Well, I have little patience for emotional appeals devoid of analysis especially when people haven't even put models on the table.
That's my character flaw, I suppose.
Okay, this isn't an attack against you. (you have to read this text like a friend teasing another friend) but dude... stop pretending to be a robot! You complete nerd! Cheer up and come have a drink and get laid or something.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well did some small 600pts games with my marines and I'm very happy with the Morkanaut (but this could have been from my amazing rolling).
Basically the list was:
1 morkanaut,
1 BM in evy armour with kff 3 Kans
vs
10 marines with multi meltas
1 contemptor dreadnought with multi metla
1 razorback with twin las
two hq's to supprot with rerolls, ect...
First game:
Orks went first and the morkanaut used the more dakka start to get boosts on 5s. with is zap cannon he got like 8 shots and then got 3 hits and 1 more with dakka. did like 15 damage to the razor back... it did explode though causing even more damage... Kans did nothing. Contemptor ran up, multi meltered 1 kan to death (with marines) and punched the other two to death.
Turn 2 - Morkanaut got heals 2 wounds form big mek (he suffered 2 mortal wounds from KMB, etc... Fired into contemptor and killed it with 12 wounds. Fired heavies into marines and killed 2 of them. Marines gave up...
Game two:
marines went first.... laz cannon both hti and wonded but kff stoped 1. did 5 damamge to morky. multi meltas all failed to do crap. Now orks went... again, the mork just 1 shot killed the razor back with like like 6 shots from zap... 2 hit with 1 more from dakka... also rockets I think finished it off with a lucky hit. He then punched the contemptor in the face and the kanz again did nothing...
Did a few more games with similar results...
Kans did surprisingly nothing (there was onyl 3 and didn't get much a chance to shine as meltas just did them in) but morky did great! Could save some points by just bringing a big mek from index.
Okay, this isn't an attack against you. (you have to read this text like a friend teasing another friend) but dude... stop pretending to be a robot! You complete nerd! Cheer up and come have a drink and get laid or something.
You must be a really cool jock. Way to go telling those nerds to have a beer and get laid! Not predictable at all of a response.
lolman1c wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well did some small 600pts games with my marines and I'm very happy with the Morkanaut (but this could have been from my amazing rolling).
Basically the list was:
1 morkanaut,
1 BM in evy armour with kff 3 Kans
vs
10 marines with multi meltas
1 contemptor dreadnought with multi metla
1 razorback with twin las
two hq's to supprot with rerolls, ect...
First game:
Orks went first and the morkanaut used the more dakka start to get boosts on 5s. with is zap cannon he got like 8 shots and then got 3 hits and 1 more with dakka. did like 15 damage to the razor back... it did explode though causing even more damage... Kans did nothing. Contemptor ran up, multi meltered 1 kan to death (with marines) and punched the other two to death.
Turn 2 - Morkanaut got heals 2 wounds form big mek (he suffered 2 mortal wounds from KMB, etc... Fired into contemptor and killed it with 12 wounds. Fired heavies into marines and killed 2 of them. Marines gave up...
Game two:
marines went first.... laz cannon both hti and wonded but kff stoped 1. did 5 damamge to morky. multi meltas all failed to do crap. Now orks went... again, the mork just 1 shot killed the razor back with like like 6 shots from zap... 2 hit with 1 more from dakka... also rockets I think finished it off with a lucky hit. He then punched the contemptor in the face and the kanz again did nothing...
Did a few more games with similar results...
Kans did surprisingly nothing (there was onyl 3 and didn't get much a chance to shine as meltas just did them in) but morky did great! Could save some points by just bringing a big mek from index.
marines are one of the worst armies in the game right now, especially one with random tactical and multi meltas. Unfortunately I feel like Killer Kans will be all but thrown away because for some reason GW decided Gretchin aren't part of a clan and thus get no benefits.
Okay, this isn't an attack against you. (you have to read this text like a friend teasing another friend) but dude... stop pretending to be a robot! You complete nerd! Cheer up and come have a drink and get laid or something.
You must be a really cool jock. Way to go telling those nerds to have a beer and get laid! Not predictable at all of a response.
lolman1c wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well did some small 600pts games with my marines and I'm very happy with the Morkanaut (but this could have been from my amazing rolling).
Basically the list was:
1 morkanaut,
1 BM in evy armour with kff 3 Kans
vs
10 marines with multi meltas
1 contemptor dreadnought with multi metla
1 razorback with twin las
two hq's to supprot with rerolls, ect...
First game:
Orks went first and the morkanaut used the more dakka start to get boosts on 5s. with is zap cannon he got like 8 shots and then got 3 hits and 1 more with dakka. did like 15 damage to the razor back... it did explode though causing even more damage... Kans did nothing. Contemptor ran up, multi meltered 1 kan to death (with marines) and punched the other two to death.
Turn 2 - Morkanaut got heals 2 wounds form big mek (he suffered 2 mortal wounds from KMB, etc... Fired into contemptor and killed it with 12 wounds. Fired heavies into marines and killed 2 of them. Marines gave up...
Game two:
marines went first.... laz cannon both hti and wonded but kff stoped 1. did 5 damamge to morky. multi meltas all failed to do crap. Now orks went... again, the mork just 1 shot killed the razor back with like like 6 shots from zap... 2 hit with 1 more from dakka... also rockets I think finished it off with a lucky hit. He then punched the contemptor in the face and the kanz again did nothing...
Did a few more games with similar results...
Kans did surprisingly nothing (there was onyl 3 and didn't get much a chance to shine as meltas just did them in) but morky did great! Could save some points by just bringing a big mek from index.
marines are one of the worst armies in the game right now, especially one with random tactical and multi meltas. Unfortunately I feel like Killer Kans will be all but thrown away because for some reason GW decided Gretchin aren't part of a clan and thus get no benefits.
OH COME ON!!! I even said read my text as a joke and not to be serious!!!!
Does anyone know if the grabbin klaw restricts enemy vehicles from moving? Desperately trying to figure out a point to the evil sunz mortal wound transport armour thing.
And that the Gunwagon and Bonebreaka don't have the BATTLEWAGON keyword.
If true, this will be FAQed, I am confident about it. Still, the usual sloppy editing. I find these people amazing. I would not be surprised lootas did not get a point reduction by mistake or because they were too lazy to try them out with the new rules (see the stratagem that works "better" on lootas, no way that was tried on the field).
An Actual Englishman wrote: Does anyone know if the grabbin klaw restricts enemy vehicles from moving? Desperately trying to figure out a point to the evil sunz mortal wound transport armour thing.
I'm thinking a mek with the armour in a bonebreaka, as those get extra attacks on the charge I believe. So if the opponent backs out they'll be stronger in CC next turn, toherwise mortal wounds. Maybe that damned if they do, damned if they don't taktik will work. I'll test it out
And that the Gunwagon and Bonebreaka don't have the BATTLEWAGON keyword.
If true, this will be FAQed, I am confident about it. Still, the usual sloppy editing.
I find these people amazing. I would not be surprised lootas did not get a point reduction by mistake or because they were too lazy to try them out with the new rules (see the stratagem that works "better" on lootas, no way that was tried on the field).
Same design team that thinks Mutilators work okay and don't need a FAQ. Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
An Actual Englishman wrote: Does anyone know if the grabbin klaw restricts enemy vehicles from moving? Desperately trying to figure out a point to the evil sunz mortal wound transport armour thing.
I'm thinking a mek with the armour in a bonebreaka, as those get extra attacks on the charge I believe. So if the opponent backs out they'll be stronger in CC next turn, toherwise mortal wounds. Maybe that damned if they do, damned if they don't taktik will work. I'll test it out
Yea thinking the same thing but I'd like to make the decision for my opponent sometimes
The only one to mention that was the GW guy on the live stream speaking off the top of his head and he clearly just didn't remember what the periscope did. Same guy who said KFF is no longer "completely within". I've seen close to 10 Youtube reviews and nobody noted a BS increase here.
well there are two strategems that will decide it for me.
moar dakka and showing off. moar dakka lets you explode hits on 5's and 6's for a unit.
showing off lets you shoot a second time, and its badmoons ONLY.
so take a squad of tankbustaz, declare MOAR DAKKA shoot with exploding 5's dont forget to reroll failed hits. then declare to SHOW OFF and do the same again. insane amount of dakka. just make sure to bring big mobs in a battlewagon
The only one to mention that was the GW guy on the live stream speaking off the top of his head and he clearly just didn't remember what the periscope did. Same guy who said KFF is no longer "completely within". I've seen close to 10 Youtube reviews and nobody noted a BS increase here.
A shame, I tought GW would slowly abandon that stupid idea that ALL of a race needs to have the same ws/bs unless very special units. And thats why you end up with elite crisis suit pilots or baneblade gunners with 4BS+, making elite units very hard to balance with those crappy stats.
ramming speed 2CP vehicle can charge 3d6 and cause d3 mortal wounds on a 2+ (or maybe 4+) get stuck in ladz 3CP infantry can fight a 2nd time moar dakka 2CP exploding 5's and 6's for one unit showing off (bad moons only) unit can shoot a 2nd time grotshield 1CP if unit is declared as target and there are gretchin within 6" that are closer to the shooting unit, for the rest of the phase, roll a dice for every unsaved wound, on a 2+ the gretchin unit suffers a mortal wound instead.
EDIT:
ohhhhh AAAAAND of coarse... WARPHEAD 1CP lets your weirboy know and cast 1 additional power. so you could warpath and jump a unit at the same time
so while with that pic earlier it showed we got more price drops more then price increases. but the issue is that its simply not enough.
now when i say something like that people say "but your getting some of the best strategems of any codex so far and also great clan traits".
so the thing is, no amount of strat/trait buffs in the world are going to make a trash army usefull.
its like a fat guy learning to do kungfu matrix style. sure he can know how to break you neck with the right technique, but he is still a fat guy.
the issue is that ork units are still notoriously easy to kill. with lack of invuls in and out of combat. even the invuls we have are mostly against shooting, has a fairly limited range, and there is no strat to increase the invuls strength.
i might build a list around deepstriking gorkanauts with extra combat phases and using evil sunz to help guarantee that charge, but its still an overpriced gorkanaut. my 1st round of combat will look good, but any player could have a more efficient melee unit take him our or all they have to do is just leave combat and shoot the gorkanaut dead with the myriad of ranged wpns that can instagib our vehicles
no amount of cp in the world is going to be useful for anything when half your armie dies turn 2 or 3.
this is why boys were pretty much our most useful unit in the index, becasue they were cheap and our only defense against enemy damage was the boys redundancy (taken in massive numbers).
i like the strats i can use, im already thinking of cool combos, but with all said and done if i could choose, then i would ask for heavy price decreases around the board instead. right now we dont need broken strats/traits, we need better or cheaper units.
Okay, this isn't an attack against you. (you have to read this text like a friend teasing another friend) but dude... stop pretending to be a robot! You complete nerd! Cheer up and come have a drink and get laid or something.
DOES NOT COMPUTE!
Well did some small 600pts games with my marines
That's a tough set up for the Kanz, because they're going to be closest and get tagged by meltas earlier.
so while with that pic earlier it showed we got more price drops more then price increases. but the issue is that its simply not enough.
now when i say something like that people say "but your getting some of the best strategems of any codex so far and also great clan traits".
so the thing is, no amount of strat/trait buffs in the world are going to make a trash army usefull.
its like a fat guy learning to do kungfu matrix style. sure he can know how to break you neck with the right technique, but he is still a fat guy.
the issue is that ork units are still notoriously easy to kill. with lack of invuls in and out of combat. even the invuls we have are mostly against shooting, has a fairly limited range, and there is no strat to increase the invuls strength.
i might build a list around deepstriking gorkanauts with extra combat phases and using evil sunz to help guarantee that charge, but its still an overpriced gorkanaut. my 1st round of combat will look good, but any player could have a more efficient melee unit take him our or all they have to do is just leave combat and shoot the gorkanaut dead with the myriad of ranged wpns that can instagib our vehicles
no amount of cp in the world is going to be useful for anything when half your armie dies turn 2 or 3.
this is why boys were pretty much our most useful unit in the index, becasue they were cheap and our only defense against enemy damage was the boys redundancy (taken in massive numbers).
i like the strats i can use, im already thinking of cool combos, but with all said and done if i could choose, then i would ask for heavy price decreases around the board instead. right now we dont need broken strats/traits, we need better or cheaper units.
To be honest I agree. The lack of survivability per point is a problem. It's possible that all the deepstrikes/rushes will mitigate this, but then again this could lead to a scaled up game not fun for both parties, and at risk of being eventually nerfed.
Wait and see. Also, cocnerning my comment on lootas, above - let's wait and see if they changed their gun too, in the way it happened to the Flash Gitz.
Rinkydink wrote: It looks some good stuff in the 'Dex, along with some strange point gains. (painboy, runtherds?)
However, what I am most frustrated about are the removal of options. Both in terms of models; non MANz Big mek with KFF, (MANz Warboss, all warbiker HQ's etc.) and the kits with no alternate options. (All the buggies.)
One of the strengths of Geedubs in the past was that it allowed you construct your models with what you thought was best (competitive,) or what looks coolest, (casual.) I guess those days are gone. I really don't want a world of one kit, no options going forward for any factions....
Hey, now, the trike boss has an alternative head for the driver! What other options could Orks possibly need?!
Well it should have been nice to have the same treatment for the srcapjet: you can take a three vehicule squadron, but the kit does not have
even a spare head on the sprue. Sure we can use some leftovers from a dakkajet or the like but still.
They could have crammed at least one spare head there also.
If three scrapjets are an okay choice I'll do it the other way round and turn the plane itself into 2-3 scrapjets And I'll press mould the red gubbinz from the trike and turn them into biker helmets.
Speaking of the trike, is it REALLY shooting with its exhaust? Forward? From a rocket engine?
If three scrapjets are an okay choice I'll do it the other way round and turn the plane itself into 2-3 scrapjets And I'll press mould the red gubbinz from the trike and turn them into biker helmets.
Speaking of the trike, is it REALLY shooting with its exhaust? Forward? From a rocket engine?
i imaging the thing does tokyork drifts infront of the enemy....glorious
Gaaaah! Ork army nerfed into oblivion when it needed buffs!!!! /Sarcasm
The lack of sarcasm tag would have made that post indistinguishable from "real" ork posters.
They're absolutely exhausting. Math when it suits then, anecdotes when it doesen't and dismissal without consideration of any dissent from the dissent.
Sort of like you guys? This is typical dakka, honestly.
Well, I have little patience for emotional appeals devoid of analysis especially when people haven't even put models on the table.
That's my character flaw, I suppose.
That would include me but my emotions is just exhaustion.
Maybe its because I am new to orks but all I see are solutions and possibility. I am not jaded by what was but looking forward to what is.
On a side note. Evil Sunz speed Freaks assault detachment seems fun. . . hmmm
all this is suspect, since the person was reading it and he mightve missread some stuff, so none of this is final. buff=for every10boyz, 1 tankbusta bomb (0pts) nerf=tankbustas reroll tohit of 1s instead on failed hits (possible mistake) buff=komandoes (8pt), 1 in every5 can take 1 tankbusta bomb (0pts) runtherd=squig hound/grot lash only effects gretchin "infantry" scrapjet has the same spiked ram (on top of havving its drill) as the boom blasta nerf=stormboy full throttle just adds 6inches to advance, so no charging unless you have that warboss, and they still get the same mortal wounds from doing this (went from 8pt to 9pts) buff=traktor kannon r48 hvy1 s8 -2 d6dmg (roll 2d6 and pick highest against flyers),if this kills a unit with fly it auto crash and burns,...what is auto hit that other have mentioned (maybe only against fly)? gunwagon=comes with ardcase,under half speed in movement phase shoot twice with killkanon/zapgun/kanon (no rokets on any wagon) (dont know if there is better bs?) killkan=no kmb anymore. (kmb is d6dmg now).buzzsaw,kanclaw,drilla are all wpn options (all 0pts) defdredd=(pl5)(can fit 3 in a tellyport),start with 2dredclaws (15each),looks like we can replace its existing claws with ranged wpns (dakka dredd!!!!????)(kmb spam? maybe not worth it but has clan traits for shooting),can take 4 dredsaws (cheaper melee option but less efficiant) flashgits=1 ammo runt for every 5 truck=no rokets any more. is now 10pts cheaper then the warcopta (might be worth taking this instead?) stompa=no change to the psyko daka blasta rules
edit, accidentally listed the tankbustas as 8pts when i meant to have that on the komandoes
all this is suspect, since the person was reading it and he mightve missread some stuff, so none of this is final.
buff=for every10boyz, 1 tankbusta bomb (0pts)
nerf=tankbustas (8pt) reroll tohit of 1s instead on failed hits (possible mistake)
buff=komandoes, 1 in every5 can take 1 tankbusta bomb (0pts)
runtherd=squig hound/grot lash only effects gretchin "infantry"
scrapjet has the same spiked ram (on top of havving its drill) as the boom blasta
nerf=stormboy full throttle just adds 6inches to advance, so no charging unless you have that warboss, and they still get the same mortal wounds from doing this (went from 8pt to 9pts)
buff=traktor kannon r48 hvy1 s8 -2 d6dmg (roll 2d6 and pick highest against flyers),if this kills a unit with fly it auto crash and burns,...what is auto hit that other have mentioned (maybe only against fly)?
gunwagon=comes with ardcase,under half speed in movement phase shoot twice with killkanon/zapgun/kanon (no rokets on any wagon) (dont know if there is better bs?)
killkan=no kmb anymore. (kmb is d6dmg now).buzzsaw,kanclaw,drilla are all wpn options (all 0pts)
defdredd=(pl5)(can fit 3 in a tellyport),start with 2dredclaws (15each),looks like we can replace its existing claws with ranged wpns (dakka dredd!!!!????)(kmb spam? maybe not worth it but has clan traits for shooting),can take 4 dredsaws (cheaper melee option but less efficiant)
flashgits=1 ammo runt for every 5
truck=no rokets any more. is now 10pts cheaper then the warcopta (might be worth taking this instead?)
stompa=no change to the psyko daka blasta rules
Anything on Big Mek options? Its really odd how apparently there's no generic big mek, that its either with SAG or in mega armor. Can I at least swap out the SAG for a KFF?
Anything on Big Mek options? Its really odd how apparently there's no generic big mek, that its either with SAG or in mega armor. Can I at least swap out the SAG for a KFF?
nope, the foot slogging bigmek only has the sag (and im preety sure it is required to take it) the megaarmored bigmek can do either a kff or a tellyport blasta...yay? (deathskull snipe warlord strait might make this usefull?)
Gunwagon sounds like it perhaps starts to allow conversions of the old EPIC vehicles range, I mean a gun that can shoot twice can be modelled as two guns right? - stats are the same but if you want a gunboat you can at least model one.
not too fussed as want them as cheap battle taxis with a ram here but nice to have the option to have an actual tank
Personally will be using the index for big mek with KFF, I care little that some events ban the indexes as I don't play in tournaments and have the model - same reason I'm not rebasing anything no matter what a tournament pack says
Does the tank mines on the orks act like a grenade or do they have to give up the choppa and slugga? Because tbh, if it's an invisible grenade you could just say you have them and nobody would know.
leopard wrote: Gunwagon sounds like it perhaps starts to allow conversions of the old EPIC vehicles range, I mean a gun that can shoot twice can be modelled as two guns right? - stats are the same but if you want a gunboat you can at least model one.
not too fussed as want them as cheap battle taxis with a ram here but nice to have the option to have an actual tank
Personally will be using the index for big mek with KFF, I care little that some events ban the indexes as I don't play in tournaments and have the model - same reason I'm not rebasing anything no matter what a tournament pack says
As far as the gunwagon I can't see it being that great. If it fired all its guns twice then maybe, or if it has some more threatening dakka, but unless it goes up to BS4+ or has some other interesting abilities, I really can't see it being all that great.
I'm likely going to experiment with the stock, naked battlewagon some more to see how it holds up with the point decreases.
As far as the gunwagon I can't see it being that great. If it fired all its guns twice then maybe, or if it has some more threatening dakka, but unless it goes up to BS4+ or has some other interesting abilities, I really can't see it being all that great.
I'm likely going to experiment with the stock, naked battlewagon some more to see how it holds up with the point decreases.
lolman1c wrote: Does the tank mines on the orks act like a grenade or do they have to give up the choppa and slugga? Because tbh, if it's an invisible grenade you could just say you have them and nobody would know.
from what he said its a 1 in 10 can take it. so it doesn't replace anything (similar wording for the komandoes). it is a grenade.
lolman1c wrote: Wait, isn;t the gunwagon already a FW unit... i'm confused now.
There's a new variant in the codex that's basically a battlewagon with max dakka options. It gets the leman russ stat of being able to fire its main gun twice if it moved less than half.
lolman1c wrote: Wait, isn;t the gunwagon already a FW unit... i'm confused now.
There's a new variant in the codex that's basically a battlewagon with max dakka options. It gets the leman russ stat of being able to fire its main gun twice if it moved less than half.
its just confusing that GW will name the gunwagon the same name as the FW gunwagon. just a little wierd.
As far as the gunwagon I can't see it being that great. If it fired all its guns twice then maybe, or if it has some more threatening dakka, but unless it goes up to BS4+ or has some other interesting abilities, I really can't see it being all that great.
I'm likely going to experiment with the stock, naked battlewagon some more to see how it holds up with the point decreases.
It is BS4.
.
Have you seen that somewhere? Because that would make it tempting I'll admit but the videos I've checked out have been too grainy to tell. The only instance I know about BS4+ being mentioned is that warhammer stream, and that guy got a couple of things wrong..
Edit: re the rokkits, those aren't in the kit so it's just GW doing their rules cleanup. Bit of a shame since us ork ladz have an easy time sticking on whatever dakkabits we want, but not totally unexpected IMO.
these are the same tournaments that decided three colours applied by catapult counts as "fully painted".
what proportion of players play at tournaments?
they are free to set whatever rules they desire, the rest of us are free to do likewise, or even just occasionally use the published ones that specifically allow index options
Not that I expect it to happen, but if FW updated their battlewagon with supa-kannon to fit on a gunwagon instead, that'd be fantastic. I love the look of the supa-kannon and firing twice would be soooooo nice.
lord_blackfang wrote: Battlewagons also lose access to rokkits. You know, because there aren't any in the box and conversions are bad, mmmkay?
Ouch.Give some tank bomb, take away the rokkits.
Why they just did not produce an upgrade kit as for the Battlewagon?
if yah got the spare points give them both and you got 6 anti tank weapons coming out of them! Basically they're slightly cheaper tank bustas. Only problem is the 6" range.... but 20 guys in a wagon... driving by a rhino...
Anything on Big Mek options? Its really odd how apparently there's no generic big mek, that its either with SAG or in mega armor. Can I at least swap out the SAG for a KFF?
nope, the foot slogging bigmek only has the sag (and im preety sure it is required to take it) the megaarmored bigmek can do either a kff or a tellyport blasta...yay? (deathskull snipe warlord strait might make this usefull?)
That's stupid. Why can't I just take a big mek with no equipment? Is there any other unit where you don't have access to the base model, and they HAVE to take a heavy weapon option with no way to swap it out? I'll wait for the codex to come out first, but if I really have to use the index to use a fething generic HQ choice then I'm going to annoy GW a lot.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Is there any other unit where you don't have access to the base model, and they HAVE to take a heavy weapon option with no way to swap it out?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Is there any other unit where you don't have access to the base model, and they HAVE to take a heavy weapon option with no way to swap it out?
Devastators, noisemarines, broadsides?
I suppose he meant an HQ type. I am not sure this is an honest answer.
Are rokkit launchas on trukks also gone, or just BW ones?
Seems like it is going to be really difficult to actually get much use out of the Deffskulls' kultur if there are barely any small model-count units with powerful low-shots weapons. Being able to re-roll one shot out of 40 is a bit rubbish.
Seems like it is going to be really difficult to actually get much use out of the Deffskulls' kultur if there are barely any small model-count units with powerful low-shots weapons. Being able to re-roll one shot out of 40 is a bit rubbish.
Deathskullz lends itself to MSU Trukk Boyz. Skip out on TBs and just have a pile of units tossing out rokkits.
Kirasu wrote: Open topped doesn't affect it's assault capabilities. That was 7th edition
Well, this is kind of an attempt to bring the Assault Vehicle rule back through a stratagem, but even then I don't think 'Ard Case Wagons were allowed to take Boarding Planks in 7th? So from that POV Gunwagons and Bonebreakers not having the Battlewagon keyword makes perfect sense.
Daedalus81 wrote: Deathskullz lends itself to MSU Trukk Boyz. Skip out on TBs and just have a pile of units tossing out rokkits.
150 odd pts for one re-rollable BS5+ rokkit sounds like a jolly good time for sure.
You can think of no other in game use for that unit except to fling one rocket per turn? Cause if you can't then yes its way over-priced and you shouldn't take it.
If on the other hand you intend to zoom up, assault stuff with the truck to lock it down, fling a tankbusta rocket out at something, shoot a dozen shots at something else, prep a charge against the enemy, and if the trukk pops buff the boys squad inside it starts to look like a more viable way to spend some points MSU style.
forget the gunwagon. the bonecrusher is better. comes with a speacial deffrolla and 6 attacks base. deffrola adds d6 attacks on charge. hitting on 2+, s10 ap-2 D2 plus option to dish out mortal wounds on 4+
thing thing will definitly compete with a 3 dreads in one mob for tellyport strat.
Daedalus81 wrote: Deathskullz lends itself to MSU Trukk Boyz. Skip out on TBs and just have a pile of units tossing out rokkits.
150 odd pts for one re-rollable BS5+ rokkit sounds like a jolly good time for sure.
Well, if Trukks can still take them - 2 shots produces 2 damage on an Armiger, which is as good at 4 to 5 TBs. So, you have removed a large part of the need for TBs and you still have a solid transport and boyz to boot.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Zachectomy wrote: has it been confirmed that tankbustas only reroll 1s now against vehicles?
to be fair, that ability was too strong for 0 cost and the koptas never saw use. Id much prefer a drop in cost paired with a loss of an ability that never got used anyway than par the course.
RedNoak wrote: tankbustaz can reroll all hits against vehicles
its even better, you could potentally reroll hits (the word 'failed' was deleted)
and trukks CANNOT take rockets anymore
on a sidenote koptaz lost their bigboom ability
Oh nice regarding the tankbustas. Just rerolling 1's would've been a huge hit. Any idea if the gunwagon is BS4+ or BS5+? There seem to be some contradicting reports..
to be fair, that ability was too strong for 0 cost and the koptas never saw use. Id much prefer a drop in cost paired with a loss of an ability that never got used anyway than par the course.
Well they were probably the reason koptas were so crazy expensive and as such not really 0 points to be fair. The point drop might be in large part because those are gone
So... can grots not get into vechiles anymore? In addition, if you bring a grot oiler does he have a grot keyword and also mean your bigmek can't go into the vechile because the grot isn't part of the same Kulture? Would be great if orks could just enter vechiles regardless of clans... then you could have evil sunz transportation with goff boyz.
lolman1c wrote: So... can grots not get into vechiles anymore? In addition, if you bring a grot oiler does he have a grot keyword and also mean your bigmek can't go into the vechile because the grot isn't part of the same Kulture? Would be great if orks could just enter vechiles regardless of clans... then you could have evil sunz transportation with goff boyz.
I missed this...where did you see it? Grots have the <clan> keyword, but not Kultur. You need Kultur to get in a trukk?
lord_blackfang wrote: Battlewagons also lose access to rokkits. You know, because there aren't any in the box and conversions are bad, mmmkay?
Index, dude.
It's still an asinine change and more of this no model/no rule nonsense.
And really, how long do you think those Index are going to stick around?
Same can be said for the Big Gunz.
This "index Dude" argument is a no answer for me as well:
Those indexes will be gone in a year or so.
These models have been around for more than 20 years for some of them, some
of us own a trukk load of them and they may been
a favorite for some players as well model wise,
unrelated to the rules aspects of things.
How many mainstream space marine vehicules (or options) or
IG vehicules (or options) or HQ choices have been removed altogether
from the list by a new codex?
That may be is why some of us ork players are really annoyed...
Sounds like kommandos get that neat plus one to wound ability as well. For keeping the same points and getting a tankbomb two burnas and that new ability I think I know what people might use all those useless broken UP 7 point boys for now.
Anything on Big Mek options? Its really odd how apparently there's no generic big mek, that its either with SAG or in mega armor. Can I at least swap out the SAG for a KFF?
nope, the foot slogging bigmek only has the sag (and im preety sure it is required to take it)
the megaarmored bigmek can do either a kff or a tellyport blasta...yay? (deathskull snipe warlord strait might make this usefull?)
That's stupid. Why can't I just take a big mek with no equipment? Is there any other unit where you don't have access to the base model, and they HAVE to take a heavy weapon option with no way to swap it out?
I'll wait for the codex to come out first, but if I really have to use the index to use a fething generic HQ choice then I'm going to annoy GW a lot.
Yeah, this frustrates the hell out of me too. Feels like a cynical cash grab. However, my old KFF big mek, will just have a Kustom Deflektor which also powers the gubbins on his axe, but saps his speed a little...
Why would they keep them in print once everyone has their 'Dex?
It's like saying you can pick and choose what points values to use from whichever Chapter Approved you like.
Digital costs nothing and these are paperback so not a huge need to order beforehand.
It's not like saying that at all.
The index can stick around for casual play, but it needs to die for matched play and it sounds like lots of people are keen to make that happen quickly.
Well they should release a "legacy" index with the missing
stuff in it if putting it in the codex was that difficult
and charge whatever cost they want for them.
FW did the same with older stuff (not all of them but still), for free.
As a consumer I feel annoyed I can not play anymore a bunch of model
I spend money and time to build, paint, just to make room for the newest items.
I was ready to crush some money on this release, but now they axed, big gunz,
(regular) buggies, mek etc... I will probably reconsider it.
The Indices were created as a 'get you by' style book because 8th Ed doesn't have a common rules base with the previous edition, so they had to release lists for everything as the old Codices would not work. They're temporary by design.
The idea that they'd keep them around once all the Codices are done is silly.
GW is greedy with everything aimed to make money even to expense of balance as can be seen as all their rule changes are aimed just to change what sells. Thus I find idea that they automatically reduce books players have to buy silly.
lolman1c wrote: So... can grots not get into vechiles anymore? In addition, if you bring a grot oiler does he have a grot keyword and also mean your bigmek can't go into the vechile because the grot isn't part of the same Kulture? Would be great if orks could just enter vechiles regardless of clans... then you could have evil sunz transportation with goff boyz.
Grots have the <CLAN> keyword. Battlewagons can transport up 12/20 <CLAN> infantry models. This is visible in strikingscorpions video, so we're all good on that front.
Still doesn't look like my longshot wish of 2 grots per transport slot came to fruition though. Just let me jam-pack 'em GW.
lolman1c wrote: So... can grots not get into vechiles anymore? In addition, if you bring a grot oiler does he have a grot keyword and also mean your bigmek can't go into the vechile because the grot isn't part of the same Kulture? Would be great if orks could just enter vechiles regardless of clans... then you could have evil sunz transportation with goff boyz.
Grots have the <CLAN> keyword. Battlewagons can transport up 12/20 <CLAN> infantry models. This is visible in strikingscorpions video, so we're all good on that front.
Still doesn't look like my longshot wish of 2 grots per transport slot came to fruition though. Just let me jam-pack 'em GW.
What? They changed transport rule as well for orks? So orks are now worse than IG in terms of transport things? Used to be just infantry regardless of clan. Darn. IG can do it. Why can't orks :(
lolman1c wrote: So... can grots not get into vechiles anymore? In addition, if you bring a grot oiler does he have a grot keyword and also mean your bigmek can't go into the vechile because the grot isn't part of the same Kulture? Would be great if orks could just enter vechiles regardless of clans... then you could have evil sunz transportation with goff boyz.
Grots have the <CLAN> keyword. Battlewagons can transport up 12/20 <CLAN> infantry models. This is visible in strikingscorpions video, so we're all good on that front.
Still doesn't look like my longshot wish of 2 grots per transport slot came to fruition though. Just let me jam-pack 'em GW.
What? They changed transport rule as well for orks? So orks are now worse than IG in terms of transport things? Used to be just infantry regardless of clan. Darn. IG can do it. Why can't orks :(
Considering the Orks codex was probably written pretty much alongside CA 2019 most likely I would assume that this is merely telling of a change everyone will get when CA 2019 drops. If not, then it's weird but I gotta be honest, until recently this is how I thought it worked already.
Considering the Orks codex was probably written pretty much alongside CA 2019 most likely I would assume that this is merely telling of a change everyone will get when CA 2019 drops. If not, then it's weird but I gotta be honest, until recently this is how I thought it worked already.
allies is probably the worst thing this edition. ill take the old one any day if it meant we didnt have to put up with every imperial faction sucking cp from the guard.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Is there any other unit where you don't have access to the base model, and they HAVE to take a heavy weapon option with no way to swap it out?
Devastators, noisemarines, broadsides?
Oh, you mean Tactical Marines, Chaos Marines and Crisis Suits? Because those are more or less the generic versions of those models. And besides, they aren't called "Tactical Marines with Heavy Weapons", "Chaos Marines with Sonic weapons" and "Crisis Suits with Heavy Weapons" now are they? Thus implying they are something a little special compared to the generic type. Does it not strike you as odd that your options are "Big Mek in Mega Armor" and "Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun"? Why not just big mek? You mean to tell me that everything single Big Mek now wears mega armor or uses a SAG? That's oddly specific. Hell, they have a Mek model that's sold separately. Why can't one use that as a Big Mek? Orks are supposed to be the conversion and kitbash army.
lolman1c wrote: So... can grots not get into vechiles anymore? In addition, if you bring a grot oiler does he have a grot keyword and also mean your bigmek can't go into the vechile because the grot isn't part of the same Kulture? Would be great if orks could just enter vechiles regardless of clans... then you could have evil sunz transportation with goff boyz.
Grots have the <CLAN> keyword. Battlewagons can transport up 12/20 <CLAN> infantry models. This is visible in strikingscorpions video, so we're all good on that front.
Still doesn't look like my longshot wish of 2 grots per transport slot came to fruition though. Just let me jam-pack 'em GW.
What? They changed transport rule as well for orks? So orks are now worse than IG in terms of transport things? Used to be just infantry regardless of clan. Darn. IG can do it. Why can't orks :(
Because all the factions that have that have non subfaction keyword units in the codex. Ig have tempestus and a bunch of others, drukhari have mercenaries.
Latro_ wrote: tractor cannon seems a bit of a no brainer now then...
auto hits everything, d6dmg... thanks i'll have 5
Yep. I expect either lots of remodeling of KMK's to traktor kannons(if they werent' magnetized) or lots of purchaces(just as planned). Those things topled KMK.
And if you face DE regularly...Frankly I don't CARE if they are competive or not but they are custom made to blow those triple damned venoms with 3 splinter cannons of reroll to hit hell with -1 to hit, 5++ and in effect invulnerability to h2h. Takes in average 2 to destroy one in average, any hit past inv save has 30% chance of one shotting one which then causes wound to nearby ones which increases odds of one shotting to 55%...
DIE DIE DIE! Even if those suck against anything else if they are good vs dark eldar I don't care.
Too bad even cheapest I can get is 28e per gun :-/ 168e for 6...
lolman1c wrote: So... can grots not get into vechiles anymore? In addition, if you bring a grot oiler does he have a grot keyword and also mean your bigmek can't go into the vechile because the grot isn't part of the same Kulture? Would be great if orks could just enter vechiles regardless of clans... then you could have evil sunz transportation with goff boyz.
Grots have the <CLAN> keyword. Battlewagons can transport up 12/20 <CLAN> infantry models. This is visible in strikingscorpions video, so we're all good on that front.
Still doesn't look like my longshot wish of 2 grots per transport slot came to fruition though. Just let me jam-pack 'em GW.
What? They changed transport rule as well for orks? So orks are now worse than IG in terms of transport things? Used to be just infantry regardless of clan. Darn. IG can do it. Why can't orks :(
Because all the factions that have that have non subfaction keyword units in the codex. Ig have tempestus and a bunch of others, drukhari have mercenaries.
And IG transports can transport cadians and catachans at will. Why orks transporting different clans would be so bad? Allowing or disallowing it isn't related to non-subfaction units.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: How many wounds do Venoms have? We don't have a DE player in our FLGS.
6. So aiming for 6 with 2d6 pick highest=30.5% odds. If one blows it's 1 wound to nearby venoms so then 5+ on 2d6 pick highest...Ooolala! Burn venoms BURN! Even if I lose vs others as long as those venoms crash and burn I'm happy!
lolman1c wrote: "GW is learning from past mistakes" as we're on the 3rd to last codex with only 2 more to go... yes... I see now how this is a good thing for 40k. XD If only 40k players learnt from GW's past mistakes. We have 30+ years of evidence for what GW is capable of.
So quit the hobby?
It's not just a game... It's a community. And I'm the ork player of the community, I would let them down...
but no seriously I hate it when people say "well then just quit" because that doesn't solve anything. The game would be dead if this happened. In addition, it is a community. If I left I would seriously lose like 70% of all my friends. This is like saying "if you don't like my negative comments then just leave the forums!"... why should you? You have some enjoyable aspect that keep you here but you also have some criticisms against people you don;t agree with. Should it mean you give it all up?
I sincerely hope the losing your friends thing isn’t true, as they wouldn’t be a good friend if they blanked you because you didn’t play..
But I get the point I *think* you’re trying to make.
(And I agree, about the whole community thing, for sure).
Either way this thread has way too much bickering and one liners at each other, it’s exhausting.
On the Orks;
Well actually most of the stuff I have has gone down so that’s great (though I was never about optimal, more just doing the things l like model wise and such)
CthuluIsSpy wrote: How many wounds do Venoms have? We don't have a DE player in our FLGS.
6. So aiming for 6 with 2d6 pick highest=30.5% odds. If one blows it's 1 wound to nearby venoms so then 5+ on 2d6 pick highest...Ooolala! Burn venoms BURN! Even if I lose vs others as long as those venoms crash and burn I'm happy!
(yeah I hate them )
That does sound fantastic. At least GW is finally adding anti-air options into their books. If only they didn't take away the Big Mek. I don't mind losing big guns. It sucks, but those were superceded by Mek Gunz. The Big Gunz role has been taken, so having both options in a codex would be redundant. I can handle that. Its the fact that you no longer have a generic HQ option you can play around with and is stuck with 2 set models that irks me, because Orks somehow forgot that their Meks don't have to wear mega armor or heave around a SAG
That does sound fantastic. At least GW is finally adding anti-air options into their books. If only they didn't take away the Big Mek. I don't mind losing big guns. It sucks, but those were superceded by Mek Gunz. The Big Gunz role has been taken, so having both options in a codex would be redundant. I can handle that. Its the fact that you no longer have a generic HQ option you can play around with and is stuck with 2 set models that irks me, because Orks somehow forgot that their Meks don't have to wear mega armor or heave around a SAG.
this is what hurts the most. my 2 warlords for my army are the megawarboss and the bikebigmek with sag. i have alot of history with them....and now its "just use the index" for them. sigh.
Almost all our units that are not gretchin/flashgits but have above BS5+ do so by means of adding to hit (Dragsta gets +2 to hit with its main gun for example, Dakkajet +1 to hit vs flyers, Wazbomb +1 with its smasha gun)
That doesn't affect dakkadakkadakka (natural hit roll of 6) but the More Dakka stratagem makes it go off on a 5+....which would then become a 3+ if you're a Shokkjump Dragsta.
The official "goodnight sweet prince" count for the codex for me is:
-Big Mek with Kustom Mega Blasta and Choppa, my very first ork model (I'll just run him as a non-wysiwyg mek I suppose)
-Big Mek with KFF (He'll just have VERY EFFECTIVE T-shirt. Got some of that Kanye West egyptian weave cotton I guess.)
-Warboss on Bike (in my nostradamus-like trance, I built this model out of a wartrakk to be a near exactly perfect WYSIWYG trikeboss, so he'll be my second trike if they're so good I need 2)
-4 official GW sculpt big gunz (my scratchbuilds are all big enough to pass for mek gunz but these little guys will have to go)
-Mega-armor warboss made from the MANz kit (he'll be a boss nob I guess)
Almost all our units that are not gretchin/flashgits but have above BS5+ do so by means of adding to hit (Dragsta gets +2 to hit with its main gun for example, Dakkajet +1 to hit vs flyers, Wazbomb +1 with its smasha gun)
That doesn't affect dakkadakkadakka (natural hit roll of 6) but the More Dakka stratagem makes it go off on a 5+....which would then become a 3+ if you're a Shokkjump Dragsta.
Wait the more dakka strat doesn't specify unmodified hit rolls? That's going to get FAQed. Also wouldn't that mean that a group of tankbustas shooting at a supersonic flyer still only get extra hits on 6's? Sure they always hit on 5's with the strat but if dakkadakkadakka triggers on modifiable 5's those would still be able to worsen to a 6, no?
the_scotsman wrote: That doesn't affect dakkadakkadakka (natural hit roll of 6) but the More Dakka stratagem makes it go off on a 5+....which would then become a 3+ if you're a Shokkjump Dragsta.
Even though I expect this to be nerfed quickly, it's a wonderful thing to read haha. It almost doubles the Dragsta's damage output... Which was already good to begin with. And if you're playing Deathskulls it triples it... Gosh.
Almost all our units that are not gretchin/flashgits but have above BS5+ do so by means of adding to hit (Dragsta gets +2 to hit with its main gun for example, Dakkajet +1 to hit vs flyers, Wazbomb +1 with its smasha gun)
That doesn't affect dakkadakkadakka (natural hit roll of 6) but the More Dakka stratagem makes it go off on a 5+....which would then become a 3+ if you're a Shokkjump Dragsta.
Wait the more dakka strat doesn't specify unmodified hit rolls? That's going to get FAQed. Also wouldn't that mean that a group of tankbustas shooting at a supersonic flyer still only get extra hits on 6's? Sure they always hit on 5's with the strat but if dakkadakkadakka triggers on modifiable 5's those would still be able to worsen to a 6, no?
Right.
as it's currently written, More Dakka causes unmodified hit rolls of 5 and 6 to always hit, and causes DakkaDakkaDakka to trigger on a 5+.
I guess if I'm bending my brain to figure out that RAW, if an unmodified hit roll of 5 always hits, then that is still a hit roll of 5, which would still trigger dakkadakkadakka, but then if you're using a Dragsta and a roll of 3 then gets MODIFIED to a five, then it'd trigger as well. But, for example, a dragsta shooting at a flyer that rolls a 3 would miss, and it wouldn't modify high enough to be a five, so it wouldn't trigger DDD.
I guess it depends if "unmodified rolls of X always hit" means that the rolls are immune to modifiers entirely, like as soon as you roll a 5 you can't touch that number and it remains a 5, or if modifiers still apply, in which case you'd be gettign the benefits of the 5s hitting but not the improved DDD.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote: I wouldn't use More Dakka on single models like Dragstas anyway.
I mean, you wouldn't, but if it nearly doubled my damage output I might.
It'd also be pretty awesome if you're playing like Freebootas and have a big unit of flash gits with the freeboota kultur triggered turn up the dakka and hit on 3s dakka on 4s...
Well don't dakkajets get +1 to hit if they shoot all their guns at the same target? Then +1 from the strat, then moar dakka in case you really really wanted that flyer thing dead.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Indices were created as a 'get you by' style book because 8th Ed doesn't have a common rules base with the previous edition, so they had to release lists for everything as the old Codices would not work. They're temporary by design.
The idea that they'd keep them around once all the Codices are done is silly.
I reckon we'll see some form of Legacy book.
Strip out all the stuff in Indecies now contained in Codecies, leaving just 'legacy' units. Also gives them a chance to tweak legacy unit rules in line with FAQs and Erratas and that. And that's more money they can charge us.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Indices were created as a 'get you by' style book because 8th Ed doesn't have a common rules base with the previous edition, so they had to release lists for everything as the old Codices would not work. They're temporary by design.
The idea that they'd keep them around once all the Codices are done is silly.
I reckon we'll see some form of Legacy book.
Strip out all the stuff in Indecies now contained in Codecies, leaving just 'legacy' units. Also gives them a chance to tweak legacy unit rules in line with FAQs and Erratas and that. And that's more money they can charge us.
Maybe, I think they'll be taken out of matched play pretty soon though. If we're still allowed to use Index options by by the time we have CA 2019 in our hands I'm honestly quite surprised
lord_blackfang wrote: Battlewagons also lose access to rokkits. You know, because there aren't any in the box and conversions are bad, mmmkay?
Index, dude.
It's still an asinine change and more of this no model/no rule nonsense.
And really, how long do you think those Index are going to stick around?
Ugh that's a horrible thought. Trueborn are only in the index and they're good but without them Kabals would be a waste of time to even use. Bloodbrides left too but that wasn't too big a deal. Oddly the lore even talks about trueborn so they are still a thing. Guess i'll have to chug along a bunch of huge ass raiders with 10 guys each just to get 2 guys with the special weapon i want. That or i could switch to poison with most of them and go 'poisoned tongue'. This is so ridiculous though as kabals will only have warriors and the hq units as their unique sub-faction units. Everything else also falls under the wych sub-faction like ravagers. Of course we need range with our melee but this is weird.
Is it me or did they nerf dark eldar significantly harder than imperial guard? Guard can still use anti-titan super heavies to take down knights. I'm not even getting into soup which they can soup with probably half the armies since imperium are half the armies pretty much.
---------
Back on topic. I think Orks have some cool new cars and a trike in one kit. The rules sound really good. They're kinda stupid and way too good as far as i've seen but who knows maybe it's just the issue of all new codexes where people say they suck or are broken only to be wrong. I'm not sure why someone wouldn't take most of their basic boyz as skar boyz. Str 5 is pretty huge against t 4 and t 5 armies as if ork boyz weren't already good at melee enough for a horde unit of basic troops.
I'm not sure why someone wouldn't take most of their basic boyz as skar boyz. Str 5 is pretty huge against t 4 and t 5 armies as if ork boyz weren't already good at melee enough for a horde unit of basic troops.
9" charge on 2d6 even with reroll is 50-50. If unit fails to charge after DS it gets deleted. That's why. Not to mention that means 3CP per unit for added fun.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Looted things in CA 2018 (possibly not for matched-play, similar to the Helfrost Land Raider, etc.. in CA 2017)
See, I told you they would leave it out of the codex so we have to buy CA
Seriously, If CA has points changes for Orks I will freak! It's about a month out so why couldn't they just put it in our codex?
It won't have points. Lead times. Who got idea CA would have point changes? Just look at the bugs who didn't get anything there either. CA is already written and done for. No matched play content in CA for orks except for new missions maybe to try their luck with. They might get open play looted vehicle rules ala land raiders last year but those won't be useful for matched play anyway.
Back on topic. I think Orks have some cool new cars and a trike in one kit. The rules sound really good. They're kinda stupid and way too good as far as i've seen but who knows maybe it's just the issue of all new codexes where people say they suck or are broken only to be wrong. I'm not sure why someone wouldn't take most of their basic boyz as skar boyz. Str 5 is pretty huge against t 4 and t 5 armies as if ork boyz weren't already good at melee enough for a horde unit of basic troops.
I don't know about really good. The costs are around 100 points and higher, and in the end many of them don't seem to do all that much for the price. Like the Squigbuggy, which is the one I'd be mostly interested in of the buggies. It doesn't have a whole lot of damage output for the 140 points that it costs, even with the heavy launcher being BS4. Nor is it all that durable.
As for Skarboyz, well, the limitation is in that it is only available for Goff.
Yep. I expect either lots of remodeling of KMK's to traktor kannons(if they werent' magnetized) or lots of purchaces(just as planned). Those things topled KMK.
And if you face DE regularly...Frankly I don't CARE if they are competive or not
if those suck against anything else if they are good vs dark eldar I don't care.
Some days you are just too much.
You start out claiming a conspiracy to sell Traktor Kannons, which went up in points, too, but then admit it might not be a TAC gun.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Indices were created as a 'get you by' style book because 8th Ed doesn't have a common rules base with the previous edition, so they had to release lists for everything as the old Codices would not work. They're temporary by design.
The idea that they'd keep them around once all the Codices are done is silly.
I reckon we'll see some form of Legacy book.
Strip out all the stuff in Indecies now contained in Codecies, leaving just 'legacy' units. Also gives them a chance to tweak legacy unit rules in line with FAQs and Erratas and that. And that's more money they can charge us.
To be fair any legacy book will be like what forgeworld did. Power level only and not for matched play. The index as we currently have it will disappear shortly after the last 2-3 armies get thier codex (genecult, sisters, agents of imperium, and maybe khorne demonkin...)
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Is there any other unit where you don't have access to the base model, and they HAVE to take a heavy weapon option with no way to swap it out?
Devastators, noisemarines, broadsides?
Oh, you mean Tactical Marines, Chaos Marines and Crisis Suits? Because those are more or less the generic versions of those models.
By that logic, I could say that a warboss/nob is just a generic version of a big mek, or that boys are just smaller generic versions of nobs. You just want to complain, and it doesn't matter what your subject happens to be
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Indices were created as a 'get you by' style book because 8th Ed doesn't have a common rules base with the previous edition, so they had to release lists for everything as the old Codices would not work. They're temporary by design.
The idea that they'd keep them around once all the Codices are done is silly.
I reckon we'll see some form of Legacy book.
Strip out all the stuff in Indecies now contained in Codecies, leaving just 'legacy' units. Also gives them a chance to tweak legacy unit rules in line with FAQs and Erratas and that. And that's more money they can charge us.
To be fair any legacy book will be like what forgeworld did. Power level only and not for matched play. The index as we currently have it will disappear shortly after the last 2-3 armies get thier codex (genecult, sisters, agents of imperium, and maybe khorne demonkin...)
Possibly. Hard to say. Ultimately, giving them points would be done by the community regardless. I know it's not ideal for many, but it's why I suspect points in any potential Legacy Book.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Is there any other unit where you don't have access to the base model, and they HAVE to take a heavy weapon option with no way to swap it out?
Devastators, noisemarines, broadsides?
Oh, you mean Tactical Marines, Chaos Marines and Crisis Suits? Because those are more or less the generic versions of those models.
By that logic, I could say that a warboss/nob is just a generic version of a big mek, or that boys are just smaller generic versions of nobs. You just want to complain, and it doesn't matter what your subject happens to be
Only if you want to be intellectually dishonest. Warbosses and Nobs don't repair things, have different statlines, and different loadout options. They are not Big Meks. The fact that you can no longer just take a Big Mek is a big problem, as it hurts composition variety, it doesn't make sense, and its a lazy enforcement of that stupid no rule no model policy in an army that's supposed to encourage conversions. I resent the claim that I am complaining for the sake of complaining. If it were not for rule 1, I probably would have said something nasty by now.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Looted things in CA 2018 (possibly not for matched-play, similar to the Helfrost Land Raider, etc.. in CA 2017)
I imagine it'll be in the same limited vein as those Land Raider too so I'm hoping they're going to at least give us a couple vehicle profiles to build from,... Looted-Leman Russ, Looted Predator, Looted Rhino, Goliath, Chimera... etc...
Sunny Side Up wrote: Looted things in CA 2018 (possibly not for matched-play, similar to the Helfrost Land Raider, etc.. in CA 2017)
Excellent. I hope it's also for matched play, and not just open play like the Land Raider variants in CA 2017.
I wouldn't get your hopes up.. as if they were to be for Matched Play I don't see why they wouldn't have put them in the Codex itself, chances are the very fact that it is in CA and not the Codex means it's more of an Open Play thing for people that want to mess around making crazy, whacky looted vehicles.
So, with the new "ere we go" rule the math becomes a bit easier to calculate on your odds to get in.
Here's the lowdown:
If you fail your charge, you can reroll either one die or both. It makes sense to reroll one die if one of your dice is a 4 (improves your odds to 33% success), a 5 (to 50%) or a 6 (66%). If you reroll both dice, your odds of success is the same as the odds on the original roll, or 27.8%.
Weighting for the probability of a failure with a 4, 5, or 6 showing on one die, your odds of getting in on the second roll when you can reroll either one or both dice is just about 40%. The compound probability of succeeding in the first roll (27.8%) or the second roll (40%) is about 56.8% - a bit better than 50-50.
When your charge can succeed on an 8 (you are Evil Sunz) your odds improve drastically. The odds of your second roll (rerolling one die if you get a 4, 5, or 6, rerolling both if you only have 1s 2s and 3s) is 52.8, and the odds of your initial roll is 41.7%. The compound probability of either roll succeeding is 72.5%.
So if you are deep striking and you are any klan but Evil Sunz: 56.8%. Reroll one die if you have a 3, 4, 5, or 6 on the other die.
If you are deep striking and you are an evil sun: 72.5%. Reroll one die if you have a 4, 5, or 6 on the other die.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As a side note, the release of looted vehicles is a perfect opportunity for Games Workshop to release an anti-recast advertisement in the same style as "you wouldn't download a house".
Those ads were dumb, that would be cringy as hell.
Also, I think most probably would, in fact, download a carnifex.
Now, if it were "you shouldn't download a carnifex", perhaps they would have greater success.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Those ads were dumb, that would be cringy as hell.
Also, I think most probably would, in fact, download a carnifex.
Now, if it were "you shouldn't download a carnifex", perhaps they would have greater success.
The cringiness of those ads is why they're a meme. Im saying were I in charge of GWs goofy video department, I would make a 'you wouldn't download a leman russ' shakey cam video in the leadup to CA2018.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Those ads were dumb, that would be cringy as hell.
Also, I think most probably would, in fact, download a carnifex.
Now, if it were "you shouldn't download a carnifex", perhaps they would have greater success.
The cringiness of those ads is why they're a meme. Im saying were I in charge of GWs goofy video department, I would make a 'you wouldn't download a leman russ' shakey cam video in the leadup to CA2018.
Yeah, fair enough. They would probably make a huge joke out of it.
Wouldn't it make more sense though if they talked about looting rather than downloading, if its for CA2018?
Like "You wouldn't loot a Leman Russ...You wouldn't Loot a Carnifex....You wouldn't Loot the Emperor" and then at the end you just hear an Ork scream out "Ya zoggin' bet ah would!"
the_scotsman wrote: As a side note, the release of looted vehicles is a perfect opportunity for Games Workshop to release an anti-recast advertisement in the same style as "you wouldn't download a house".
YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CARNIFEX
We had those adds running before movies in the cinema. One of them was "you wouldn't download a pizza" and someone in the audience yelled "Hell yeah, I would!".
vim_the_good wrote: Pre-order done.
I was thinking though. I don't like the idea of a base on the new buggies. Would this be a problem if I left them off?
vim_the_good wrote: Pre-order done.
I was thinking though. I don't like the idea of a base on the new buggies. Would this be a problem if I left them off?
vim_the_good wrote: Pre-order done.
I was thinking though. I don't like the idea of a base on the new buggies. Would this be a problem if I left them off?
Prepare for modeling for advantage cries
Honestly the bases on these things have the same problem that biker bases on warbikes have: Games Workshop hasn't figured out that in order for a model to stay glued to a base, it really should have little flat spots on the bottom of the wheels for contact, and it REALLY REALLY shouldn't have spikes/knobbles on the bottoms of wheels to reduce the contact area even further to .00001mm.
I finished gluing my boosta-blasta, left it overnight to dry, picked it up the next day to look at it and the base just fell off. I ended up having to put greenstuff under the wheels to get it to stick.
tbh though I'm perfectly fine with having a base on them for gameplay. for a vehicle that wants to tie things up in melee in its spare time, I want a big ol base.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Is there any other unit where you don't have access to the base model, and they HAVE to take a heavy weapon option with no way to swap it out?
Devastators, noisemarines, broadsides?
Oh, you mean Tactical Marines, Chaos Marines and Crisis Suits? Because those are more or less the generic versions of those models.
By that logic, I could say that a warboss/nob is just a generic version of a big mek, or that boys are just smaller generic versions of nobs. You just want to complain, and it doesn't matter what your subject happens to be
Lore wise you're kinda not wrong. They are all versions of each other.
vim_the_good wrote: Pre-order done.
I was thinking though. I don't like the idea of a base on the new buggies. Would this be a problem if I left them off?
Prepare for modeling for advantage cries
Honestly the bases on these things have the same problem that biker bases on warbikes have: Games Workshop hasn't figured out that in order for a model to stay glued to a base, it really should have little flat spots on the bottom of the wheels for contact, and it REALLY REALLY shouldn't have spikes/knobbles on the bottoms of wheels to reduce the contact area even further to .00001mm.
I finished gluing my boosta-blasta, left it overnight to dry, picked it up the next day to look at it and the base just fell off. I ended up having to put greenstuff under the wheels to get it to stick.
tbh though I'm perfectly fine with having a base on them for gameplay. for a vehicle that wants to tie things up in melee in its spare time, I want a big ol base.
That's annoying part yeah. But thing is not having base is advantage so mfa accusations will be likely at tournaments
i'll probably be dusting off my AOBR koptas as BadMoonz Rokkit Platforms lol
since Kanz dont get kultures for some stupid reason....
i can see why some people would be miffed about the loss of BigBomm but personaly i NEVER used them because they were so pricy i had to shave points somewhere and Bigbomm was always "meh" to me.
i can see why some people would be miffed about the loss of BigBomm but personaly i NEVER used them because they were so pricy i had to shave points somewhere and Bigbomm was always "meh" to me.
Vineheart01 wrote: i'll probably be dusting off my AOBR koptas as BadMoonz Rokkit Platforms lol
since Kanz dont get kultures for some stupid reason....
i can see why some people would be miffed about the loss of BigBomm but personaly i NEVER used them because they were so pricy i had to shave points somewhere and Bigbomm was always "meh" to me.
Well big bom were free so no point in NOT having them.
Ah yes, open play. That part of the rulebook aimed at unicorns, fairies, people who need rules to tell them how to play without rules, and other mythical creatures. Where cool rules go to die.
Then again gw is idiot if they thought bom/ was 19pts. Which they didn#t. For them bomb was 0 pts
How could you possibly know that? I think it'd be likely that they thought the bombs were worth quite a few points and they realised the koptas were simply too expensive. A pincer manoeuvre point drop
now before you all complain that they're only for open play just think about having looted wagons in matched it would be absolutely RIDICULOUS.
Put it this way, at least it is a thing. Ive seen a LOT of posts that are whining 'bring back looted wagons' well here they are. Happy?
Many many people are going to put in a lot of work for awesome conversions and have a lot of fun with it I imagine. It's amazing that it's going to be a thing I the first place.
Then again gw is idiot if they thought bom/ was 19pts. Which they didn#t. For them bomb was 0 pts
How could you possibly know that? I think it'd be likely that they thought the bombs were worth quite a few points and they realised the koptas were simply too expensive. A pincer manoeuvre point drop
Look at the index. Kopta with bomb and without same cost. 0 pts.
Also even if they decided to give value to bombs why you think it would be 19 pts and not say 3? Why gw would give 19pts price hike to bombs?
Then again gw is idiot if they thought bom/ was 19pts. Which they didn#t. For them bomb was 0 pts
How could you possibly know that? I think it'd be likely that they thought the bombs were worth quite a few points and they realised the koptas were simply too expensive. A pincer manoeuvre point drop
Look at the index. Kopta with bomb and without same cost. 0 pts.
Also even if they decided to give value to bombs why you think it would be 19 pts and not say 3? Why gw would give 19pts price hike to bombs?
The zero point thing is just for strict wysiwyg people I imagine. It's the same thing as with the stompa, the supa rokkits are 0 points and you can take up to 5, why would you ever take less than 5? As in they are included in the cost as much as the mek speshul is on the boomdakka snazzwagon and the only reason you would not take it is for cosmetic purposes. EDIT: Obviously you have to take the mek speshul, I merely mean that 0 points doesn't equate free
As I said, I don't think the bombs make up for the entire point difference, but I'd wager GW thought they were worth 10ish points each and the rest of the reduction just came from a normal price cut.
the_scotsman wrote: Honestly the bases on these things have the same problem that biker bases on warbikes have: Games Workshop hasn't figured out that in order for a model to stay glued to a base, it really should have little flat spots on the bottom of the wheels for contact, and it REALLY REALLY shouldn't have spikes/knobbles on the bottoms of wheels to reduce the contact area even further to .00001mm.
1) put the car on flat sheet of sandpaper (or just grab your file)
2) move back and forth a few times;
3) ...profit?
To be frank, i never even looked at Koptas in the index because they were so overpriced. I saw they were MORE expensive than a Kan for zilch melee, much squishier, and similar shooting (4+ 1 shot vs 5+ 2shots), nope didnt want'm.
Lack of bigbomm for less cost was a previous-edition mentality. Should have specified lol my bad.
What exactly is the difference between Matched and Open play anyway? Until the Looted Wagons rules i never even thought about Open play being more than the format you'd use for custom rules/models you homebrewed
Many many people are going to put in a lot of work for awesome conversions and have a lot of fun with it I imagine. It's amazing that it's going to be a thing I the first place.
Respectfully, people create models, especially orky models, all the time without any rule attached. Or homebrew.
Ork Players wanted looted wagon rules they could use like it used to be. Useable in any kind of match. Using "ifs" does no good.
Jidmah wrote: I rather see it as a fence with a "competitive players stay out" sign on it.
Pretty much EVERYONE plays with points, at least where I live. From the most casual pick-up games to tournaments (even if only to avoid the extremely wacky PL system. Even in a casual match you want some semblance of balance). Maybe it's about time we get a division in "competitive matched play" (tournaments) and "casual matched play" (everything else). This, like the new Land Raider options, are excellent initiatives, but restricting them to Open Play means I can never field those units were I to build them. If there were something like a "casual matched play" mode these models and additional weapons/ parts could simply receive an appropriate points value and be usable in your average game without polluting tournaments with more imbalance. I mean, as a Space Wolves player I'd love to stuff my Land Raider full of Helfrost Cannons (and Lascannons? Don't think you can actually make an 8-Helfrost LR even with CA) to use it as a Main Battle Tank but I can't because it's open-play only.
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game?? Flash gitz going up in price? Runtherd and painboy goes up by a dozen points? These are bs changes for seemingly no apparent reason.
What seems especially stupid is that points are pretty much required for any build-your-own looted wagon design system which isn't horribly restricted. If I want to make something with loads of big shootas, each of them is going to be like 0.2 power. And they are going to have to give new costs to all the weapons which are 0 points in the codex.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game??
They didnt have a model for it, but had a big mek in MA model.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game?? Flash gitz going up in price? Runtherd and painboy goes up by a dozen points? These are bs changes for seemingly no apparent reason.
They removed it because there isn't an official model for it. The model for it is ghazghkull that people just used as a warboss in MA.
Perfect Organism wrote: What seems especially stupid is that points are pretty much required for any build-your-own looted wagon design system which isn't horribly restricted. If I want to make something with loads of big shootas, each of them is going to be like 0.2 power. And they are going to have to give new costs to all the weapons which are 0 points in the codex.
But it will be horribly restricted, just like the Land Raider one.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game??
The designers were told to make some new models. They decided that a mega-armour warboss (and bikeboss and so on) wasn't a good prospect for sales. So they made new vehicles instead. That means there isn't a warboss in mega-armour (et cetera) in the GW product line. They don't make rules for models that they don't sell. Nothing to do with balance, just their marketing strategy.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game??
The designers were told to make some new models. They decided that a mega-armour warboss (and bikeboss and so on) wasn't a good prospect for sales. So they made new vehicles instead. That means there isn't a warboss in mega-armour (et cetera) in the GW product line. They don't make rules for models that they don't sell. Nothing to do with balance, just their marketing strategy.
But wasn't the entire community expecting a new Ghaz model? This would have downgraded the old model into our Warboss in MA. This way we keep the rules and GW sells a new ghaz model but no they released some buggies that will likely only sell certain variations.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game??
The designers were told to make some new models. They decided that a mega-armour warboss (and bikeboss and so on) wasn't a good prospect for sales. So they made new vehicles instead. That means there isn't a warboss in mega-armour (et cetera) in the GW product line. They don't make rules for models that they don't sell. Nothing to do with balance, just their marketing strategy.
What's wrong with making a warboss from the mega armored nobz kit? I mean, you have to buy that in order to build a mega armored mek.
GW's policy is stupid.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game?? Flash gitz going up in price? Runtherd and painboy goes up by a dozen points? These are bs changes for seemingly no apparent reason.
MA boss and regular BM were removed because no model no rules (games workshop no longer makes both regular big mek sculpts)
Runtherd and Painboy we don't know, they may have additional abilities and they may have just been nerfed for some reason. We also don't know why the wazbom blastajet has increased in price, but it seems like every day we learn about 3-4 new rules changes.
Removing the warboss in mega armour is so silly on many levels. Would anyone complain if you proxy a ghaz or regular MAN for a warboss? No. Fluffwise we now have our Nobz being able to take the best personal protection a mek could offer but our bosses apparently feel no need to get the best equipment one can loot/buy.
Theyre enforcing this "no model no rules" thing way too early for orks. Heck even Ghaz is an ancient model, why they discontinued the footmek KFF and not him i have no idea.
Orks have always been heavily into customized models and kitbashes, so they never gave us a proper "commander kit" like everyone else has. Suddenly they rip out half the rules for them because we have no proper kit?
Absolutely the biggest BS in the new releases. Completely gutted our HQ choices and loss of a footmek KFF is horseraddishes.
I'm seriously expecting a new box for just this in summer-ish 2019 at the latest. The outrage from lack of rules enough would cause it.
Lets be honest here. After the point leaks, these new buggies are on the 'fun' shelf holding hands with the stompa. KFF Mek and the MA boss are both gone in favor of a the shitwagon snazcrack.
Overall, I think the rest of the codex looks very good.
Rinkydink wrote: Y'know strange thing about the no model/no rules thing is, I'd be all over a customizable MA warboss and Big Mek KIt....
Ikr? They basically shot themselves in the foot. They could have left those options in for future proofing purposes, but they had to do this weird thing where apparently warbosses don't wear mega armor and big meks can only wear mega armor or have SAGs.
Theyre enforcing this "no model no rules" thing way too early for orks. Heck even Ghaz is an ancient model, why they discontinued the footmek KFF and not him i have no idea.
Orks have always been heavily into customized models and kitbashes, so they never gave us a proper "commander kit" like everyone else has. Suddenly they rip out half the rules for them because we have no proper kit?
Absolutely the biggest BS in the new releases. Completely gutted our HQ choices and loss of a footmek KFF is horseraddishes.
I'm seriously expecting a new box for just this in summer-ish 2019 at the latest. The outrage from lack of rules enough would cause it.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game
Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game??
They didnt have a model for it, but had a big mek in MA model.
So instead of make a model they simply remove the entry from the codex? I have models for which I cannot use in games now. Models I spent a LOT of time converting and scratchbuilding and painting. Warboss on bike, MA, Regular big meks not in mega armor (I have 5), paintboy on bikes... all just worth as much as as the space they take up in my case
Rinkydink wrote: Y'know strange thing about the no model/no rules thing is, I'd be all over a customizable MA warboss and Big Mek KIt....
Yeah, with the number of HQ choices you need now, I'd certainly buy multiples. As it is, I'm going to get a single copy of the best looking vehicles and kitbash some more just so I have a bit of variety in my army.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game
Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.
If only there was such a thing called "kitbashing" which has been an ork staple for years. The "no-rule-no-model" policy should not apply to orks. They are the worse faction to apply that policy to, as they are all about kitbashing.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game
Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.
If only there was such a thing called "kitbashing" which has been an ork staple for years. The "no-rule-no-model" policy should not apply to orks. They are the worse faction to apply that policy to, as they are all about kitbashing.
It's very likel;y that policy exists because of orks kitbashing and scratchbuilding. GW is beholden to its shareholders, and catering to people who will turn an old etch-a-sketch into a stompa using a hot glue gun and an old for sale sign makes very little money for those shareholders. A necron monolith turned into a battlewagon looks cool, but it only made the company money when the necron player bought it, not when the ork player fished it out of a box and tossed it into some simple green
Apart from the footslogging warboss from black reach all my current ork hqs are index models! Really hope they don’t remove the index rules for a while!
Minor problems aside I’m really looking forward to the new codex. Will be converting/scratch building a few ork dreads as well as tank bustas
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game??
They didnt have a model for it, but had a big mek in MA model.
So instead of make a model they simply remove the entry from the codex? I have models for which I cannot use in games now. Models I spent a LOT of time converting and scratchbuilding and painting. Warboss on bike, MA, Regular big meks not in mega armor (I have 5), paintboy on bikes... all just worth as much as as the space they take up in my case
Yes, its a gakky policy but Orks are not the first ones to be hit by this.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game
Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.
If only there was such a thing called "kitbashing" which has been an ork staple for years. The "no-rule-no-model" policy should not apply to orks. They are the worse faction to apply that policy to, as they are all about kitbashing.
As far as new-GW are concerned, the only acceptable form of 'kitbashing' is swapping parts between modular kits. Putting different heads on your Cadians is acceptable, actually using plasticard and green stuff, completely beyond the pale. Even the looted wagon they are showing off has simply had some big shootas from the battlewagon cut to go onto a LR's secondary weapon mounts, a simple turret swap and a couple of glyph plates glued on.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game
Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.
If only there was such a thing called "kitbashing" which has been an ork staple for years. The "no-rule-no-model" policy should not apply to orks. They are the worse faction to apply that policy to, as they are all about kitbashing.
As far as new-GW are concerned, the only acceptable form of 'kitbashing' is swapping parts between modular kits. Putting different heads on your Cadians is acceptable, actually using plasticard and green stuff, completely beyond the pale. Even the looted wagon they are showing off has simply had some big shootas from the battlewagon cut to go onto a LR's secondary weapon mounts, a simple turret swap and a couple of glyph plates glued on.
You could probably make a Mega Armored Warboss by kitbashing a Mega Armored Nob though with spare parts from other sets. And I'm sure you can get some electrical stuff (also from the MANZ set, probably) and stick it onto the back of that single plastic Mek they sell. You don't actually need plasticard to make them.
Darkmind wrote: Lets be honest here. After the point leaks, these new buggies are on the 'fun' shelf holding hands with the stompa. KFF Mek and the MA boss are both gone in favor of a the shitwagon snazcrack.
Overall, I think the rest of the codex looks very good.
I agree with you on the subject of the Squigbuggy and possibly the Snazzwagon (though the latter may have rules we haven't heard yet, what we do know is underwhelming at best for the points) I think you're dismissing the other three and the trikeboss really early.
Both the skrapjet and the dragsta put up extremely respectable numbers shooting tanks and the dragsta either gets a huge firepower boost with Deffskullz or crazy board control with Evil Sunz, while the skrapjet adds to its shooting with good anti tank melee with a S7 AP-2 D2 weapon and a 4+ to dish out mortal wounds.
The boosta-blasta is the actual decent generalist (feth the useless and bizarrely overpriced squigbuggy) does good anti chaff damage at short range while plunking away at light vehicles or heavy infantry with the rivet cannon.
the trikeboss is your current bike warboss with 'eadwoppas kilchoppa but he doesn't eat your relic, lets you advance and charge your battlewagons, and has an autohitting scorcha weapon instead of crappy dakkagunz.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game
Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.
If only there was such a thing called "kitbashing" which has been an ork staple for years. The "no-rule-no-model" policy should not apply to orks. They are the worse faction to apply that policy to, as they are all about kitbashing.
It's very likel;y that policy exists because of orks kitbashing and scratchbuilding. GW is beholden to its shareholders, and catering to people who will turn an old etch-a-sketch into a stompa using a hot glue gun and an old for sale sign makes very little money for those shareholders. A necron monolith turned into a battlewagon looks cool, but it only made the company money when the necron player bought it, not when the ork player fished it out of a box and tossed it into some simple green
Doesn't that policy exist because of Chapterhouse and 3rd party sellers? I don't think Ork players are to blame here.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game
Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.
If only there was such a thing called "kitbashing" which has been an ork staple for years. The "no-rule-no-model" policy should not apply to orks. They are the worse faction to apply that policy to, as they are all about kitbashing.
It's very likel;y that policy exists because of orks kitbashing and scratchbuilding. GW is beholden to its shareholders, and catering to people who will turn an old etch-a-sketch into a stompa using a hot glue gun and an old for sale sign makes very little money for those shareholders. A necron monolith turned into a battlewagon looks cool, but it only made the company money when the necron player bought it, not when the ork player fished it out of a box and tossed it into some simple green
Not at all. The legal precedent from the Chapterhouse suit is very clear, and there is no company on the planet that would accept giving their IP up to the extent that chapterhouse would allow if they continued their previous business model.
If you want to see what a lenient company Games Workshop is when it comes to conversion and nonstandard models, try showing up to an official magic card tournament with noticeably counterfeit cards and see how quick you get a lifetime ban.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game
Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.
If only there was such a thing called "kitbashing" which has been an ork staple for years. The "no-rule-no-model" policy should not apply to orks. They are the worse faction to apply that policy to, as they are all about kitbashing.
As far as new-GW are concerned, the only acceptable form of 'kitbashing' is swapping parts between modular kits. Putting different heads on your Cadians is acceptable, actually using plasticard and green stuff, completely beyond the pale. Even the looted wagon they are showing off has simply had some big shootas from the battlewagon cut to go onto a LR's secondary weapon mounts, a simple turret swap and a couple of glyph plates glued on.
You could probably make a Mega Armored Warboss by kitbashing a Mega Armored Nob though with spare parts from other sets. And I'm sure you can get some electrical stuff (also from the MANZ set, probably) and stick it onto the back of that single plastic Mek they sell. You don't actually need plasticard to make them.
I was under the impression Warbosses were notably bigger than Nobz though? It isn't a problem for the other HQs- they are all Nob-sized, so kitbashing Big Meks is relatively straightforward.
My Black Reach Warboss is huge, bigger than my ancient MA Ghaz.
I find a slight level or irony in the example shown of a "looted vehicle", in that you could build a T8 tank with a cannon and three big shoota using the current Battlewagon rules.
was kind of hoping for this to allow stuff other than what you can already do
Wait, spikey bits (yeah I know, not super reliable but I think they have the codex in front of them) writes this about the evil sunz strat:
Drive-By Krumpin'(1cp): Use this stratagem at the end of the movement phase, you can immediately move as if it were in the movement phase with an Evil Sunz Speed Freeks unit. That unit can’t charge later in the turn.
Man, one of the video reviews that described this omitted the fact that it has to be a speed freeks unit and I think they also mentioned that it was at the end of the shooting phase. If that were the case then you could've driven up close with a trukk full of tankbustas to chuck their grenades and then retreat back, now I'm not so sure what to use this for..
Any suggestions? Since you can't charge afterwards it doesn't help alpha/beta strike, so other than a late linebreaker this seems pretty tame. Am I missing something?
slightly off the topic of the current discussion.
for anyone that is more interested in bringing toys over boys, or in other words, to bring alot of vehicles/elites but not boyz in particular, but also want a lot of cp for the strategems then i see weirdboyz making a good sale for GW.
if you want to get one or 2 batalions for cheap on orks then its 2 weirdboys (our cheepest hq option, and his powers do damage) and 3 minimum squads of grots.
that is 214pts for one bataltion.
for 428pts you get 10cps and alot of slots for all our other toys to put into. its not a cheap as the guard cp battery, but i think it will do its job just fine. like i said, weirdboys have a lot of possible dmg output, especially with grots for their psyker batteries, and also grots can do the grot shield strat for any infantry you run and camp your backfield objectives.
geargutz wrote: slightly off the topic of the current discussion.
for anyone that is more interested in bringing toys over boys, or in other words, to bring alot of vehicles/elites but not boyz in particular, but also want a lot of cp for the strategems then i see weirdboyz making a good sale for GW.
if you want to get one or 2 batalions for cheap on orks then its 2 weirdboys (our cheepest hq option, and his powers do damage) and 3 minimum squads of grots.
that is 214pts for one bataltion.
for 428pts you get 10cps and alot of slots for all our other toys to put into. its not a cheap as the guard cp battery, but i think it will do its job just fine. like i said, weirdboys have a lot of possible dmg output, especially with grots for their psyker batteries, and also grots can do the grot shield strat for any infantry you run and camp your backfield objectives.
Yeah, that's a pretty decent cheapo battalion. One real drawback though is that there isn't any synergy between the grots and the weirdboyz since grots no longer count towards the waaagh energy of the weirdboy. So if you're running a mechanised list, like I am, you shouldn't expect to get too many bonuses to the casting value
PiñaColada wrote: Wait, spikey bits (yeah I know, not super reliable but I think they have the codex in front of them) writes this about the evil sunz strat:
Drive-By Krumpin'(1cp): Use this stratagem at the end of the movement phase, you can immediately move as if it were in the movement phase with an Evil Sunz Speed Freeks unit. That unit can’t charge later in the turn.
Man, one of the video reviews that described this omitted the fact that it has to be a speed freeks unit and I think they also mentioned that it was at the end of the shooting phase. If that were the case then you could've driven up close with a trukk full of tankbustas to chuck their grenades and then retreat back, now I'm not so sure what to use this for..
Any suggestions? Since you can't charge afterwards it doesn't help alpha/beta strike, so other than a late linebreaker this seems pretty tame. Am I missing something?
PiñaColada wrote: Wait, spikey bits (yeah I know, not super reliable but I think they have the codex in front of them) writes this about the evil sunz strat:
Drive-By Krumpin'(1cp): Use this stratagem at the end of the movement phase, you can immediately move as if it were in the movement phase with an Evil Sunz Speed Freeks unit. That unit can’t charge later in the turn.
Man, one of the video reviews that described this omitted the fact that it has to be a speed freeks unit and I think they also mentioned that it was at the end of the shooting phase. If that were the case then you could've driven up close with a trukk full of tankbustas to chuck their grenades and then retreat back, now I'm not so sure what to use this for..
Any suggestions? Since you can't charge afterwards it doesn't help alpha/beta strike, so other than a late linebreaker this seems pretty tame. Am I missing something?
The text seems questionable, I would expect codex to read use at end of shooting phase.
The boarding action strat requires you to be within 1" of an enemy unit, does it not? If that's the case then there's no possible combination between the two that I can think of. But when I kept reading some of the other strats in the article I'm thinking that the drive by krumpin' is typed up wrong. They wrote that 'ard boyz increases toughness so that whole list is really suspect now. God I hope it's wrong
geargutz wrote: slightly off the topic of the current discussion.
for anyone that is more interested in bringing toys over boys, or in other words, to bring alot of vehicles/elites but not boyz in particular, but also want a lot of cp for the strategems then i see weirdboyz making a good sale for GW.
if you want to get one or 2 batalions for cheap on orks then its 2 weirdboys (our cheepest hq option, and his powers do damage) and 3 minimum squads of grots.
that is 214pts for one bataltion.
for 428pts you get 10cps and alot of slots for all our other toys to put into. its not a cheap as the guard cp battery, but i think it will do its job just fine. like i said, weirdboys have a lot of possible dmg output, especially with grots for their psyker batteries, and also grots can do the grot shield strat for any infantry you run and camp your backfield objectives.
Yeah, that's a pretty decent cheapo battalion. One real drawback though is that there isn't any synergy between the grots and the weirdboyz since grots no longer count towards the waaagh energy of the weirdboy. So if you're running a mechanised list, like I am, you shouldn't expect to get too many bonuses to the casting value
But yeah, the fact that a lot of Ork unit options are still in finecast is a problem, and GW decides to fix this by limiting their options even further.
Battle for Vedros has the repackaged Assault on Black Reach Warboss which IMO is a much easier model to convert than Grukk. Unpopular opinion here, but I actually feel liberated by not having the MA boss anymore. I built mine out of a Ghazghkull, and kinda shoehorned him into every list possible, slowing down the rest of the Boyz.
Now my 2 AOBR Bosses (and the old metal Big Choppa boss) have a place in the army.
But yeah, the fact that a lot of Ork unit options are still in finecast is a problem, and GW decides to fix this by limiting their options even further.
geargutz wrote: slightly off the topic of the current discussion.
for anyone that is more interested in bringing toys over boys, or in other words, to bring alot of vehicles/elites but not boyz in particular, but also want a lot of cp for the strategems then i see weirdboyz making a good sale for GW.
if you want to get one or 2 batalions for cheap on orks then its 2 weirdboys (our cheepest hq option, and his powers do damage) and 3 minimum squads of grots.
that is 214pts for one bataltion.
for 428pts you get 10cps and alot of slots for all our other toys to put into. its not a cheap as the guard cp battery, but i think it will do its job just fine. like i said, weirdboys have a lot of possible dmg output, especially with grots for their psyker batteries, and also grots can do the grot shield strat for any infantry you run and camp your backfield objectives.
Yeah, that's a pretty decent cheapo battalion. One real drawback though is that there isn't any synergy between the grots and the weirdboyz since grots no longer count towards the waaagh energy of the weirdboy. So if you're running a mechanised list, like I am, you shouldn't expect to get too many bonuses to the casting value
i didnt realize that, man that sucks. though it was pretty abusable, i would argue it made up for itself with the weirdboy being more likely to explode from those grot batteries.
but wile they might not benefit each other, at least some of the wierdboy abilities seem realy good (a wierdboy sounds more effective than a sag bigmek) and the grots are still valuable for objective camping and grot shields.
and at least GW fantasy ork sales will increase becasue its easy enough to buy the wierdnob shaman if you dont want to bother with the current weirdboy kit.
As far as new-GW are concerned, the only acceptable form of 'kitbashing' is swapping parts between modular kits. Putting different heads on your Cadians is acceptable, actually using plasticard and green stuff, completely beyond the pale. Even the looted wagon they are showing off has simply had some big shootas from the battlewagon cut to go onto a LR's secondary weapon mounts, a simple turret swap and a couple of glyph plates glued on.
Erm, well I'm looking at the trophies on my shelf from Armies on Parade for my fully kitbashed and green-stuffed Kroot themed army and thinking that maybe its not so simple as that. They were fine with them at my local store (rather loved them actually) and perfectly OK with them at HQ in Nottingham. I think that "beyond the pale" is overstating it somewhat.
I do not get or expect any rules support for my kitbashing, they all have to be built within the limitations and dimensions of legit models from the codex. I still have a ton of fun with it.
I've seen a lot of people talking about clan soup.
There is nothing in here that says units entirely composed of, units with clan, or units as part of a detachment entirely composed of.
It just says models.
Apart from WAAAGH, Speedwaaagh, other similar clan only aura bubbles - I don't see clan benefits themselves not working within the same detachment. What is to prevent me from, for example, using an evil sunz battle wagon to transport a snakebite unit of Ork boys led by a bad moons warboss? They wouldn't get Waaagh, but unless there is something else, I don't see why the battlewagon wouldn't get +1 move, the warboss would reroll 1s to hit when shooting, and the boys would get the 6+++.
I've seen a lot of people talking about clan soup.
Spoiler:
There is nothing in here that says units entirely composed of, units with clan, or units as part of a detachment entirely composed of.
It just says models.
Apart from WAAAGH, Speedwaaagh, other similar clan only aura bubbles - I don't see clan benefits themselves not working within the same detachment. What is to prevent me from, for example, using an evil sunz battle wagon to transport a snakebite unit of Ork boys led by a bad moons warboss? They wouldn't get Waaagh, but unless there is something else, I don't see why the battlewagon wouldn't get +1 move, the warboss would reroll 1s to hit when shooting, and the boys would get the 6+++.
It will most likely be like it is in every other codex and not in the <CLAN> rules. For example, from Codex Astra Militarum:
If your army is Battle-forged, all <REGIMENT> units in an ASTRA MILITARUM Detachment (excluding those in Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments) gain a Regimental Doctrine, so long as every unit in that Detachment (apart from the exceptions noted opposite) is drawn from the same regiment.
I've seen a lot of people talking about clan soup.
There is nothing in here that says units entirely composed of, units with clan, or units as part of a detachment entirely composed of.
It just says models.
Apart from WAAAGH, Speedwaaagh, other similar clan only aura bubbles - I don't see clan benefits themselves not working within the same detachment. What is to prevent me from, for example, using an evil sunz battle wagon to transport a snakebite unit of Ork boys led by a bad moons warboss? They wouldn't get Waaagh, but unless there is something else, I don't see why the battlewagon wouldn't get +1 move, the warboss would reroll 1s to hit when shooting, and the boys would get the 6+++.
Anything I'm missing?
I could be wrong but wasn't there something about a transport only transporting units of their own chapter aka kultur for orks?
Yeha, just replace all painboyz with weirdboyz and run your boyz in a separate detachment... XD
But I get why the MA and Big Mek loss is such a shock... when you lost the big gunz we all didn't care too much (they're 30 year old models basically). But the big mek just didn't seem that old. And the MAWB was such an iconic thing (look at all the video games with orks!). It will be sad to see them go.... Old players will still use them but all the new Ork players will never even know the exist!
lolman1c wrote: Yeha, just replace all painboyz with weirdboyz and run your boyz in a separate detachment... XD
But I get why the MA and Big Mek loss is such a shock... when you lost the big gunz we all didn't care too much (they're 30 year old models basically). But the big mek just didn't seem that old. And the MAWB was such an iconic thing (look at all the video games with orks!). It will be sad to see them go.... Old players will still use them but all the new Ork players will never even know the exist!
GW has to know that we want MAWB and a standard big mek back. Those options should exist. If only because it doesn't make any bloody sense that there's a "big mek with Shokk Attack Gun" option but no "Big Mek" option.
After the codex drops let them know on FB or email.
Nobody used him because he offered nothing a Painboy didnt that we actually wanted and was way more expensive. Response is to make him pricier? wtf?
Personally I don't think he was all that bad. Pretty beefy statline, durable and actually can make use of his PK. Now that he and the painboy both went up thouhg idk.. If you are running death skulls and wanted a painboy I think he is worth the extra points.
By the way, do we know anything about mixing clans/kulturs in an army?
There was a question a few pages ago about putting non-Evil Sunz orks in an Evil Sunz vehicle ... not sure there was an answer ...
Wish. I have like 12 AOBR koptas and all except...3? of them have either busted or "repaired" propellers lol.
hmm, i should see if i can find an STL file to print new ones...
Koptas, boss, mek, kommandoz, tankbustas, and depending on how you looked at it the Nobz (warbike option) really needed new releases and we got buggies galore. Dont get me wrong i love them they are amazing but think we should have just gotten 2 of them and some new boxes for old stuff, ESPECIALLY with this whole "no model no rules" crap. Had that not been a thing i imagine most of us wouldnt even care we didnt get a Warboss kit.
nflagey wrote: By the way, do we know anything about mixing clans/kulturs in an army?
There was a question a few pages ago about putting non-Evil Sunz orks in an Evil Sunz vehicle ... not sure there was an answer ...
You can't.. Battlewagons can transport up 12/20 <CLAN> infantry models. This is visible in strikingscorpions video.. Stands to reason this is how it works with all transports in the codex.
Perfect Organism wrote: What seems especially stupid is that points are pretty much required for any build-your-own looted wagon design system which isn't horribly restricted. If I want to make something with loads of big shootas, each of them is going to be like 0.2 power. And they are going to have to give new costs to all the weapons which are 0 points in the codex.
The way it worked for the custom Land Raider rules was that there was a chassis with a transport capacity and adding weapons reduced transport capacity.
I'm not sure if that's the way it will go for Orks in CA or not.
It sounds like there might be looted wagons, looted carts and battle fortresses, which is exciting.
nflagey wrote: By the way, do we know anything about mixing clans/kulturs in an army?
There was a question a few pages ago about putting non-Evil Sunz orks in an Evil Sunz vehicle ... not sure there was an answer ...
Re, from the tactics thread, no. They only carry clan infantry.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Any word on what Bonebreakers and Battlewagons can have?
I have a battlewagon with a deathrolla and a killkannon, is that still legal?
Yes but probably not optimal.
You want those bone breakers breaking bones. In combat. With their rolla.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Any word on what Bonebreakers and Battlewagons can have?
I have a battlewagon with a deathrolla and a killkannon, is that still legal?
I'm pretty sure it is. But it can't be either a bonebreaka or a gunwagon then. So you won't get any of those bonuses, but the base battlewagon (which is 20 points cheaper than those variants) can have all the options that they could from the index. (except rokkits)
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Any word on what Bonebreakers and Battlewagons can have?
I have a battlewagon with a deathrolla and a killkannon, is that still legal?
Yes but probably not optimal.
You want those bone breakers breaking bones. In combat. With their rolla.
Well that's what you want a Battlewagon & deffrolla to do, too. Drive to enemy, unload passengers, crush enemy with deffrolla while the passengers also charge.
Although yes, I wouldn't put a killkannon there, but I modularize my options anyway.
tbh if the Killkannon is finally priced right, you betcha i'll put that on a Bonebreaker if i can.
If i have the option to thin numbers while i charge, or shoot somethign i dont wanna charge while charging something else, i will.
Orks are bullies in melee, they generally suffer if something can actually match them because they lack invuls (Ghaz, Deffskullz kulture, and the badmoon trait is the only melee-legal invul ive seen). They want to go after something they can immediately mulch, so if they do face something that can fight back theres nothing left EXCEPT that thing that can fight back.
Shoot the thing that can fight back so you can bully it when its at like 2-5hp. Dont bully it at full health.
the_scotsman wrote: So, with the new "ere we go" rule the math becomes a bit easier to calculate on your odds to get in.
Here's the lowdown:
If you fail your charge, you can reroll either one die or both. It makes sense to reroll one die if one of your dice is a 4 (improves your odds to 33% success), a 5 (to 50%) or a 6 (66%). If you reroll both dice, your odds of success is the same as the odds on the original roll, or 27.8%.
Weighting for the probability of a failure with a 4, 5, or 6 showing on one die, your odds of getting in on the second roll when you can reroll either one or both dice is just about 40%. The compound probability of succeeding in the first roll (27.8%) or the second roll (40%) is about 56.8% - a bit better than 50-50.
When your charge can succeed on an 8 (you are Evil Sunz) your odds improve drastically. The odds of your second roll (rerolling one die if you get a 4, 5, or 6, rerolling both if you only have 1s 2s and 3s) is 52.8, and the odds of your initial roll is 41.7%. The compound probability of either roll succeeding is 72.5%.
So if you are deep striking and you are any klan but Evil Sunz: 56.8%. Reroll one die if you have a 3, 4, 5, or 6 on the other die.
If you are deep striking and you are an evil sun: 72.5%. Reroll one die if you have a 4, 5, or 6 on the other die.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As a side note, the release of looted vehicles is a perfect opportunity for Games Workshop to release an anti-recast advertisement in the same style as "you wouldn't download a house".
YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CARNIFEX
i did the math (without +1 for evil suns) back when the index came out. (before they FAQ'd that you must reroll the complete roll)
BONUS
the glorious mathhammer answers if you should reroll all dice for charging or just one^^:
Spoiler:
to get a 9 with 2d6 the probabilty is 10/36. thats a bit less than one third. ere we go lets you reroll the charge distance. keep in mind that a reroll in the rulebook is defined as either rerolling one (or more) or all dice. so should you reroll both or just one die? well it depends...
REROLLING ALL DICE NO MATTER WHAT: probability of result beeing >= 9: 10/36 (charge succeeded on first try)
plus probability of result beeing < 9: 26/36 (charge failed, so reroll all dice) multiplied with probability of result beeing >= 9: 10/36 (charge succeeded on second try)
= 10/36 + 26/36 * 10/36 = 620/1296 = 49 % so its fifty/fifty to make the charge...
but if you consider that the complete reroll is a less than one/third chance... we could simply keep a 5 (if we rolled one) and hope for a 4+ on the reroll of one die,because thats a flat fifty/fifty chance. the probability of getting at least one 4+ when rolling below 9: 17/36
REROLLING ALL DICE ONLY IF NO FIVE WAS ROLLED: probability of result beeing >= 9: 10/36 (charge succeeded on first try)
plus probability of result beeing < 9 but at least one 5+ rolled: 10/36 (charge failed, but reroll only one dice) multiplied with probability of rolling a 4+ with one die: 18/36 (charge succeeded on second try)
plus probability of result beeing < 9 and no 5+ rolled: 16/36 (charge failed, so reroll all dice) multiplied with probability of result beeing >= 9: 10/36 (charge succeeded on second try)
5% better than rerolling all dice by the way if you keep a 4 and hope for a 5+ on the reroll the chance would be 50,4%
got some different results. the best outcome is to try and keep a 5+ on the first roll and in case no 5+ was rolled on first try, reroll all dice (54% success rate)
should be alot better with an 8" charge... maybe i'll do the math later
Vineheart01 wrote: tbh if the Killkannon is finally priced right, you betcha i'll put that on a Bonebreaker if i can.
If i have the option to thin numbers while i charge, or shoot somethign i dont wanna charge while charging something else, i will.
Orks are bullies in melee, they generally suffer if something can actually match them because they lack invuls (Ghaz, Deffskullz kulture, and the badmoon trait is the only melee-legal invul ive seen). They want to go after something they can immediately mulch, so if they do face something that can fight back theres nothing left EXCEPT that thing that can fight back.
Shoot the thing that can fight back so you can bully it when its at like 2-5hp. Dont bully it at full health.
The bonebreaka can't take any of the big guns. That has been reiterated by several people and is as close to confirmed as we can get before actually holding the codex in our own hands. You can still take the small weapon options on it though, so 4 big shootas should be okay as an example
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Any word on what Bonebreakers and Battlewagons can have?
I have a battlewagon with a deathrolla and a killkannon, is that still legal?
I'm pretty sure it is. But it can't be either a bonebreaka or a gunwagon then. So you won't get any of those bonuses, but the base battlewagon (which is 20 points cheaper than those variants) can have all the options that they could from the index. (except rokkits)
Ok great. I can still use my wagon then. I think I'll leave the turret loose, but glue the hatch on. Atm its in 3 pieces because I used it back when open topped, 'ard case (I think that's the rule that removed open topped) and destroying weapons was a thing,
got some different results. the best outcome is to try and keep a 5+ on the first roll and in case no 5+ was rolled on first try, reroll all dice (54% success rate)
should be alot better with an 8" charge... maybe i'll do the math later
did a quick runthrougth the numbers... for the "keep a 4+ or if you didnt get one, then reroll all dice" approach, the chance to get off a 8" charge is 66%
mathspoiler:
Spoiler:
result is greater than or equal to 8 = 15/36 plus result is less than 8, but one 4+ was rolled. so you reroll just one and hope its a 4+ = 10/36 * 1/2 plus result is less than 8, but no 4+ was rolled. so you reroll all dice and hope its 8 = 9/36 * 15/36 equals 15/36 + 10/36 * 1/2 + 9/36 * 15/36 = 0,65972 or 66%
Nightlord1987 wrote: My wyrdboys are already Snake bites, so our own Loyal 32 of wyrdboys and Gretchin sounds auto include to me!
grots dont get the benefit of clan kultures.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vineheart01 wrote: tbh if the Killkannon is finally priced right, you betcha i'll put that on a Bonebreaker if i can.
If i have the option to thin numbers while i charge, or shoot somethign i dont wanna charge while charging something else, i will.
Orks are bullies in melee, they generally suffer if something can actually match them because they lack invuls (Ghaz, Deffskullz kulture, and the badmoon trait is the only melee-legal invul ive seen). They want to go after something they can immediately mulch, so if they do face something that can fight back theres nothing left EXCEPT that thing that can fight back.
Shoot the thing that can fight back so you can bully it when its at like 2-5hp. Dont bully it at full health.
Going to be using that 2cp strat for an ork character to swing before it is removed when it dies. will REALLY come in handy.
yeah i think ork strategems are really great. if a bit overcosted... i bet you will get to see at least 3x10 gretchin in literally EVERY ork army
its 90 points for 5CP... the two HQ's are quasi irrelevant... since you want them anyway and the grots can shield important characters or infantry units... so they are not wasted either
RedNoak wrote: yeah i think ork strategems are really great. if a bit overcosted...
i bet you will get to see at least 3x10 gretchin in literally EVERY ork army
its 90 points for 5CP... the two HQ's are quasi irrelevant... since you want them anyway
and the grots can shield important characters or infantry units... so they are not wasted either
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: So instead of make a model they simply remove the entry from the codex? I have models for which I cannot use in games now. Models I spent a LOT of time converting and scratchbuilding and painting. Warboss on bike, MA, Regular big meks not in mega armor (I have 5), paintboy on bikes... all just worth as much as as the space they take up in my case
Yes, its a gakky policy but Orks are not the first ones to be hit by this.
Heh. Ork players think they were hit badly by this policy? Compare it to Deathwatch, where wunderteam of Cruddace and Phil Kelly not only cut every single option from all units that wasn't physically in the box (so, for example, unit X could only take power sword, and only one, because there was only one sword in the box, never mind all SM hands, even primaris ones, are the same size and SM kits assumed bit borrowing for decades to not needlessly repeat stuff).
Even better, they were stupid enough in their cutting zeal to omit options that are in the box (see DW Vanguard Veterans, where lead model plastered on the front of the box has relic blade, assembly instructions explicitly tell you how to assemble model with relic blade, but these two morons didn't actually give you option to take said relic blade...), to the point some options were virtually monobuilds (like DW Venerable dreadnought with all of 2 options, when all other SM books had like 15...).
This was followed up with 8th edition Index where the nonsense restrictions were not only not dropped, but upheld in dumb way - say, SM dreadnought sheet kept 15 options in every single chapter but DW, where it actually had a frame saying 'ignore all these options, xeno hunters (who have access to every single item in the Imperium's arsenal) care not for such trivialities and never modify them'
Thankfully it was dialed down in DW Codex, but alas, milk was already spilt, since no one cared about that trial balloon and there was no massive backlash, the same policy started to appear elsewhere...
Haighus wrote: I was under the impression Warbosses were notably bigger than Nobz though? It isn't a problem for the other HQs- they are all Nob-sized, so kitbashing Big Meks is relatively straightforward.
My Black Reach Warboss is huge, bigger than my ancient MA Ghaz.
Yeah, I have no idea why people kept proposing this. MANZ are puny next to warboss, trying to make one from MAN kit would just look sad. Like trying to convert trukk from buggy.
Vineheart01 wrote: Wish. I have like 12 AOBR koptas and all except...3? of them have either busted or "repaired" propellers lol.
hmm, i should see if i can find an STL file to print new ones...
Koptas, boss, mek, kommandoz, tankbustas, and depending on how you looked at it the Nobz (warbike option) really needed new releases and we got buggies galore. Dont get me wrong i love them they are amazing but think we should have just gotten 2 of them and some new boxes for old stuff, ESPECIALLY with this whole "no model no rules" crap. Had that not been a thing i imagine most of us wouldnt even care we didnt get a Warboss kit.
i made propelers with paper and superglue. Roll the paper tight and flatten them, then glue on teeth bits. Paint black for the win!
got some different results. the best outcome is to try and keep a 5+ on the first roll and in case no 5+ was rolled on first try, reroll all dice (54% success rate)
should be alot better with an 8" charge... maybe i'll do the math later
did a quick runthrougth the numbers...
for the "keep a 4+ or if you didnt get one, then reroll all dice" approach, the chance to get off a 8" charge is 66%
mathspoiler:
Spoiler:
result is greater than or equal to 8 = 15/36
plus
result is less than 8, but one 4+ was rolled. so you reroll just one and hope its a 4+ = 10/36 * 1/2
plus
result is less than 8, but no 4+ was rolled. so you reroll all dice and hope its 8 = 9/36 * 15/36
equals
15/36 + 10/36 * 1/2 + 9/36 * 15/36 = 0,65972 or 66%
I am...very confused by your math.
The formula for compound probability is 1-((1/X)*(1/Y)*(1/Z)) etc for however many events you have. That's your odds of "At least one successful result"
If you're looking for a 9, it is a 27.8% chance of success. The inverse being 72.2%, or .722. 1-(.722*.722) = .4788. 47.9% chance of getting in if you have a two-dice reroll, but not the option to reroll a single die.
If you have the option to reroll a single die, it makes sense (better odds) to reroll if you get a 6 (66% chance), a 5 (50% chance) and a 4 (33% chance) because all those options are better odds than the odds of rerolling both.
If you weight the odds based on the number of possible failures that include one 6, one 5, one 4, or none of those numbers, you end up with a figure that puts your compound odds at about 58% chance with the "one or both" odds.
I'm not sure where you're going with your additive probability numbers here.
Haighus wrote: I was under the impression Warbosses were notably bigger than Nobz though? It isn't a problem for the other HQs- they are all Nob-sized, so kitbashing Big Meks is relatively straightforward.
My Black Reach Warboss is huge, bigger than my ancient MA Ghaz.
Yeah, I have no idea why people kept proposing this. MANZ are puny next to warboss, trying to make one from MAN kit would just look sad. Like trying to convert trukk from buggy.
Hmm yeah, you have a point. I did a quick size comparison between my metal 4th ed Warboss, the Big Mek and the Nob, and the warboss is considerably bigger. Never quite noticed that. Heh.
So that conversion is out. All the more reason to make a proper model.
Yeah, what they did to the Deathwatch sounds stupid.
The bonebreaka can't take any of the big guns. That has been reiterated by several people and is as close to confirmed as we can get before actually holding the codex in our own hands. You can still take the small weapon options on it though, so 4 big shootas should be okay as an example
Striking Scorpion's video is very clear that the Bonebreaka can take the big guns. Hell the picture on the Bonebreaka page features a Battlewagon with a Killkannon on it.
Not like the Killkannon is an amazing top-tier weapon anyway so denying it to the "melee wagon" would be kinda silly.
Nobody used it because it was priced like it WAS a super-top tier gun. And if it was hitting on 3s it might be, since it does hit kinda hard for its price, but only D6 shots on such a pricy gun with orky BS...no...i only have it on my Squiggoth because its MASSIVELY cheaper than having 2 supalobbas lol
Now what i REALLY hope for is the "gun wagon" gets into FW rules so i can use my Supakannon with the shooting twice rule. Oh...oh man that'd be awesome.
I think my biggest problem with the codex from what's been revealed isn't the fact that a lot of things are horribly priced - it's that you simply can't do fun combinations; because units are either Klan locked, or simply don't get Kultur.
I was looking forward to running Gretchin models (Grots, Kans, MekGuns); but what's the point if they don't get Kultur?. - I get that MekGuns would be insane with the Deathskulls Kultur; but that's not the point (even though it would be "FUN") - what about the RR1 from Bad Moonz? Or perhaps other benefits from other factions? Poor Grot Tanks/Grot Megatanks... all the best units are grots, lol. And by best, I mean fun/units that I like. :p
I want to build combos. I want to take units that could interact together. I want to "Shoot Twice" BadMoonz stratagem on Flash Gits.
fe40k wrote: I think my biggest problem with the codex from what's been revealed isn't the fact that a lot of things are horribly priced - it's that you simply can't do fun combinations; because units are either Klan locked, or simply don't get Kultur.
I was looking forward to running Gretchin models (Grots, Kans, MekGuns); but what's the point if they don't get Kultur?. - I get that MekGuns would be insane with the Deathskulls Kultur; but that's not the point (even though it would be "FUN") - what about the RR1 from Bad Moonz? Or perhaps other benefits from other factions? Poor Grot Tanks/Grot Megatanks... all the best units are grots, lol. And by best, I mean fun/units that I like. :p
I want to build combos. I want to take units that could interact together. I want to "Shoot Twice" BadMoonz stratagem on Flash Gits.
Yeah, this is what really sucks.
I have over 18 killakans and I don't see a reason. To run them competitive or even for fun...too easy to kill.
I would think they would do something like this if the unit would be op if it had the traits, but besides the mek guns the rest are very meh and would've only been good if they had access to the traits.
Heck, the overpriced stomps has to be taken In a supreme cmd detach just to get its trait. This is ridiculous.
fe40k wrote: I think my biggest problem with the codex from what's been revealed isn't the fact that a lot of things are horribly priced - it's that you simply can't do fun combinations; because units are either Klan locked, or simply don't get Kultur.
I was looking forward to running Gretchin models (Grots, Kans, MekGuns); but what's the point if they don't get Kultur?. - I get that MekGuns would be insane with the Deathskulls Kultur; but that's not the point (even though it would be "FUN") - what about the RR1 from Bad Moonz? Or perhaps other benefits from other factions? Poor Grot Tanks/Grot Megatanks... all the best units are grots, lol. And by best, I mean fun/units that I like. :p
I want to build combos. I want to take units that could interact together. I want to "Shoot Twice" BadMoonz stratagem on Flash Gits.
Yeah, this is what really sucks.
I have over 18 killakans and I don't see a reason. To run them competitive or even for fun...too easy to kill.
I would think they would do something like this if the unit would be op if it had the traits, but besides the mek guns the rest are very meh and would've only been good if they had access to the traits.
Heck, the overpriced stomps has to be taken In a supreme cmd detach just to get its trait. This is ridiculous.
Agreed - Mek Guns are the only units that become insane if they get Kulture, and it's really only the Deathskulls kulture that puts them over the top - RR1's are great, but not game breaking. Grots and Kans getting kulture would make them better; but again, not overpowered. 3ppm 2t 1w models with a 6++/+; It's not like those already exist in Chaos flamelings or anything... and Kans would just get better; but since Kans are still a unit, Deathskulls is real weak on them. RR1's is not bad because of the potential volume of shots - but, it's no different than Guardsman/Marines, who get RR1's on BS4+, or better anyways. Kans with +1 movement would be fantastic, if only so you felt like you could use them as an alternative to 3 Dreads out of a tellyporta.
I don't think Kulture would break any of the Grot units - just make more fun. Mek Guns are an exception; but even then, it's only Deathskulls kulture that is the problem.
Do other armies lose out on traits because "it's thematic"? No. But Orks do... [and yes, I understand that some factions (marines) don't even get traits on everything; but that's an entirely separate issue].
fe40k wrote: Do other armies lose out on traits because "it's thematic"? No. But Orks do... [and yes, I understand that some factions (marines) don't even get traits on everything; but that's an entirely separate issue].
The various Astartes Codexes want to have some words with you.
fe40k wrote: Do other armies lose out on traits because "it's thematic"? No. But Orks do... [and yes, I understand that some factions (marines) don't even get traits on everything; but that's an entirely separate issue].
The Triarch Praetorians, Triarch Stalker and C'tans don't access to theirs for thematic reasons.
This seems like a pretty intense victim complex tbh
