I wonder how much of this is foreboding things to come.
While the orks have always had fun vehicles, I could totally see them moving away from hordes of foot sloggers to sell more expensive (both in money and points) units.
Kind of like the Ogres to Beastclaw Raiders transition. Sure, Ogres still have access to all the old units, but their focus now is on their big durable mounted models that can get a fair bit of movement across the table, give and take a beating, and are also considerably more money than their on foot counterparts (like Battleline Beastriders)
At least that's my take on things. Or maybe I'm just looking to deeply at things. I'd be cool with a mechanized Mad Max style Ork crew though.
While the orks have always had fun vehicles, I could totally see them moving away from hordes of foot sloggers to sell more expensive (both in money and points) units.
Kind of like the Ogres to Beastclaw Raiders transition. Sure, Ogres still have access to all the old units, but their focus now is on their big durable mounted models that can get a fair bit of movement across the table, give and take a beating, and are also considerably more money than their on foot counterparts (like Battleline Beastriders)
At least that's my take on things. Or maybe I'm just looking to deeply at things. I'd be cool with a mechanized Mad Max style Ork crew though.
Minor point:
"Ogres to Beastclaw Raiders" doesn't mean jack. Ogres are one of several factions that got splintered into smaller ones. Instead of being one large one, they're now 2 middling sized ones and two small ones.
"Gutbusters" is where the Butchers, Tyrants, Ironguts, "Ogors", Leadbelchers, Grots, the Scraplauncha/Ironblaster, and the Gorgers ended up.
"Firebellies" is a faction made up of literally just the Firebelly entry.
"Maneaters" is their own faction, consisting of just that unit.
Beastclaw Raiders is their own faction with a relatively small unit selection(about the same as Gutbusters) but they were the only one to get a book so far.
I know this might sound like nitpicking, but it's something that I feel gets misrepresented at times. We've had a lot of factions get this treatment in AoS, and not always was it for the worst. As much as you might see the costs and think it's a moneymaker...I don't think I've seen people buy the cavalry/mammoths on their own in some time. They just buy Start Collectings instead.
If GW did decide to go the mad max way with a konvoy of vehicles for the orks, this is what I'd want to see as plastic kits. (Mostly picked from epic BTW.)
Warboss on bike/trike, Painboy on bike, Big Mek on bike, Nob bikers, Weirdboy tower, Mekboy Speedsta, Guntrukk (think more a gun tank), Looted vehicle (think looted leman russ but with ork box), battlefortress.
GW could pull from all kinds of real world inspiration for their riding junkyard, like this:
ceorron wrote: If GW did decide to go the mad max way with a convoy of vehicles for the orks, this is what I'd want to see as plastic kits. (Mostly picked from epic BTW.)
Warboss on bike/trike, Painboy on bike, Big Mek on bike, Nob bikers, Weirdboy tower, Mekboy Speedsta, Guntrukk (think more a gun tank), Looted vehicle (think looted leman russ but with ork box), battlefortress.
GW could pull from all kinds of real world inspiration for their ridding junkyard, like this:
Pure unadulterated speculation courtesy of Kirioth. Think many people will have missed it as its buried around the ~8min mark, he talks about some 'info' that correctly named the first two buggies we've heard about before the info was released by GW. IF this info did arrive with him before GW released the names, you've got to think it's likely accurate with the others:
1) Shokk Jump Dragsta
2) Kustom Boosta Blasta
It went on to mention the following names:
3) Boom Dakka Snazz Wagon (sounds something to load Flash gits/Lootas/Tank Bustas in?)
4) Mega Track Scrap Jet (This sounds like a cross between Grot Mega Tank, so many guns and a BW, powered by a Jet engine!)
5) Squig Buggies (just lol! Not even sure what these could be, some kind of huge suicide squig bomb?)
Thought I'd share and let the wild speculation before the next round of leaks/previews kick in.
I mean, yes, arguably you could have two new kits that each build 2 different vehicles (or one that builds one kit, or two smaller kits - that'd be awesome), but unless this bigger range of stuff is to support a game like Speed Freeks (as opposed to Codex: Orks), then it seems like too much focus in one area.
What I'm saying is that we need a plastic Kommando/Tankbusta kit.
i have a few warbuggie conversions are of captured creatures that the snakbites strapped to the fornt of old broken down truk chassis and have a sort of chariot (one of them is literaly a 40k conversion of the aos ork boar chariot).
maybe this rumor vehicle could be something like that, maybe a larger squig that has enough 40k ork stuff to make it distinct from aos.
this would help flesh out the snakebites since the units unique to them are FW only.
Well the snazzy wagon could be the third vehicle in the art. The scrap jet could be the big guy we have seen in the shadows which may be a plastic version of this.
That just leaves the squids which too awesome an idea to not be true.
i have a few warbuggie conversions are of captured creatures that the snakbites strapped to the fornt of old broken down truk chassis and have a sort of chariot (one of them is literaly a 40k conversion of the aos ork boar chariot).
maybe this rumor vehicle could be something like that, maybe a larger squig that has enough 40k ork stuff to make it distinct from aos.
this would help flesh out the snakebites since the units unique to them are FW only.
Yeah i'd like to see the return of boar boyz, including warboss on boar, that would be cool, as well as pretty powerful. Add to that a mini squiggoth and snakebite are looking a lot more playable. All this would really expand the ork range.
When you mention a ride for the flash gitz why does my mind turn to this?
3) Boom Dakka Snazz Wagon (sounds something to load Flash gits/Lootas/Tank Bustas in?) 4) Mega Track Scrap Jet (This sounds like a cross between Grot Mega Tank, so many guns and a BW, powered by a Jet engine!) 5) Squig Buggies (just lol! Not even sure what these could be, some kind of huge suicide squig bomb?)
Sounds legit, in the so crazy it has to be true camp.
if there isnt an white dwarf article thats like "fun movies to watch while painting your orks" and mad max movies are not in it, then i would be disappointed
crzylgs wrote: 4) Mega Track Scrap Jet (This sounds like a cross between Grot Mega Tank, so many guns and a BW, powered by a Jet engine!)
Sounds like it's just the FWBig Trakk model. That's powered by a jet engine, and is a trakk.
I'm betting these are just new names for old FW models.
That's quite possible. I certainly wouldn't complain as I've always found the FW model pretty terrible in all honesty.. Eiter way, here's hoping the rumours are real and we're getting (at least) another 3 vehicles. Guess we'll know more at NOVA.
Pure unadulterated speculation courtesy of Kirioth. Think many people will have missed it as its buried around the ~8min mark, he talks about some 'info' that correctly named the first two buggies we've heard about before the info was released by GW. IF this info did arrive with him before GW released the names, you've got to think it's likely accurate with the others:
1) Shokk Jump Dragsta
2) Kustom Boosta Blasta
It went on to mention the following names:
3) Boom Dakka Snazz Wagon (sounds something to load Flash gits/Lootas/Tank Bustas in?)
4) Mega Track Scrap Jet (This sounds like a cross between Grot Mega Tank, so many guns and a BW, powered by a Jet engine!)
5) Squig Buggies (just lol! Not even sure what these could be, some kind of huge suicide squig bomb?)
Thought I'd share and let the wild speculation before the next round of leaks/previews kick in.
September is going to be a long month!
Those names are great, especially the Boom Dakka Snaz Wagon. I hope squigs are more prominent in the Ork army. They have been a great and untapped part of Ork lore since the beginning that was largely ignored.
While the orks have always had fun vehicles, I could totally see them moving away from hordes of foot sloggers to sell more expensive (both in money and points) units.
Kind of like the Ogres to Beastclaw Raiders transition. Sure, Ogres still have access to all the old units, but their focus now is on their big durable mounted models that can get a fair bit of movement across the table, give and take a beating, and are also considerably more money than their on foot counterparts (like Battleline Beastriders)
At least that's my take on things. Or maybe I'm just looking to deeply at things. I'd be cool with a mechanized Mad Max style Ork crew though.
Beastclaw Riders have one of the best value-for-money Start Collecting sets GW makes (along with Seraphon I'd say), and it contains a huge mounted hero you'll want multiples of plus your battleline. It's probably the cheapest faction (money-wise) in all of AoS.
While the orks have always had fun vehicles, I could totally see them moving away from hordes of foot sloggers to sell more expensive (both in money and points) units.
Kind of like the Ogres to Beastclaw Raiders transition. Sure, Ogres still have access to all the old units, but their focus now is on their big durable mounted models that can get a fair bit of movement across the table, give and take a beating, and are also considerably more money than their on foot counterparts (like Battleline Beastriders)
At least that's my take on things. Or maybe I'm just looking to deeply at things. I'd be cool with a mechanized Mad Max style Ork crew though.
Beastclaw Riders have one of the best value-for-money Start Collecting sets GW makes (along with Seraphon I'd say), and it contains a huge mounted hero you'll want multiples of plus your battleline. It's probably the cheapest faction (money-wise) in all of AoS.
There's also the fact that of the three archetypes of orks in 40k (huge green tide horde, crazy mek walker contraptions, mad max speed biker/buggy fighters) the latter hasn't really been a focus of anything since Gorkamorka days.
We've had a plethora of new big meks, walkers, various contraptions like the wazbom jet, we've had the Waaagh Ghazghkull supplements, snazzy new nob and meganob models, and pretty much the only things we've seen explicitly related to the "orks like to go fast" archetype has been the Warbiker and Stormboy kits. Great kits to be sure, but biker nobs, bosses and characters on bikes, trakks and buggies have all wobbled in the realm of "either ancient old model or no model at all" for 20+ years. So it's ripe ground for some expansion.
I really hope this time we will have something for the Blood Axe Klan.
Evil sunz were already covered in the Imperial Armour from 2008, after all.
If I recall, there was a buggy illustration very close to the new model we got.
btw if anyone noticed ...
I believe the wheel on the right isn't part of the vehicle ... the white glyph is mirrored on the other side of the double wheel on the left side.
If this is correct ... THIS IS A NEW WARBOSS ON BIKE ... REPEAT NEW WARBOSS ON BIKE!!!
aracersss wrote: btw if anyone noticed ...
I believe the wheel on the right isn't part of the vehicle ... the white glyph is mirrored on the other side of the double wheel on the left side.
If this is correct ... THIS IS A NEW WARBOSS ON BIKE ... REPEAT NEW WARBOSS ON BIKE!!!
I don't think it is a wheel on the left - isn't it a coil of wire? Possibly connected to his grappling hook?
ehh, it looks like a wheel to me, the blur does not help (will probably look more like a wheel when we see the mini), besides you could kinda see the base under that "maybe not wheel" and that would be a strange location (even for orks) to place a spool for the grappling hook (strange in that its a spool that is rolling across the ground).
It's the spool from the grappling hook. Draw a flat line under the wheel on the right, it doesn't line up.
Design-wise, it's absolutely the place for it. A spool at the front would drag the vehicle towards the victim without pulling said victim on top of the wagon.
And if you look at it from a CAD design and sprueing point of view, it puts the spool in the same place as the meatgrinder on the other buggy.
The wheel on the right has been mentioned as part of a barricade and not connected to the boss vehicle. It's pretty hard to tell, but it could well be part of a barricade as the piece in front of it touches the ground, and that would be bad design even for orks.
Vineheart01 wrote: Evil Sunz are basically the default ork klan.
Virtually everything is designed for them except Walkers which are usually in Bad Moonz colors.
I don't know about you, but I have Goff staring at me from most boxes I still have around.
Oh you can paint them in any scheme and really only Snakebiters looks weird on the speedy things i just meant the whole "Red go fasta" motto kinda affected the vehicle design rather than being a joke.
Vast majority of my stuff is bad moonz. What little isnt badmoonz is like 8 year old or more evil sunz when i started playing, back before i was any good at painting so theyre getting repainted slowly lol
Thebiggesthat wrote: See, from that focus it looks even more like a cable spool for me!
Same! Does not look uniform enough to be a wheel. Definitely looks like a reel of cable the way they can bunch a bit to the sides.
Honestly, I think you're all mental but we shall see.
I wouldn't put it past an Ork Mek to use a cable spool as a wheel! To me the "wheel" looks like a cable spool, but the rest also totally looks like the front of a bike (or trike/trakk)
aracersss wrote: btw if anyone noticed ... I believe the wheel on the right isn't part of the vehicle ... the white glyph is mirrored on the other side of the double wheel on the left side. If this is correct ... THIS IS A NEW WARBOSS ON BIKE ... REPEAT NEW WARBOSS ON BIKE!!!
I doubt that this is a Warboss on a bike. A Nob, maybe, but not a Warboss.
The wheel with the white glyphs looks more like a spool of cable than a tire so it might also be in front of the vehicle, not part of it.
I noticed that there are two bike style headlights on this model. No current Ork bike has two headlights so unless this is a conversion, I expect we're looking at something new. As you mentioned in your post, the wheel on the side looks to be part of a barrier of some sort, not part of the vehicle itself. I also noticed something that could be tank tracks just above it. Possibly.
The suspicion that the tank tracks are part of the vehicle and the while is not, along with the dual headlights and second Ork behind the driver leads me to believe that this is a new Wartrakk. In fact, barring new evidence to the contrary, I feel pretty confident that it is.
Vineheart01 wrote: Oh you can paint them in any scheme and really only Snakebiters looks weird on the speedy things i just meant the whole "Red go fasta" motto kinda affected the vehicle design rather than being a joke. Vast majority of my stuff is bad moonz. What little isnt badmoonz is like 8 year old or more evil sunz when i started playing, back before i was any good at painting so theyre getting repainted slowly lol
I think I didn't explain it properly. I was referring to the box art of most ork things I bought. Battlwagon, trukks, nobz, boyz, even the old start collecting box all had Goff on them. Since the ork planes most of the art has switched to Evil Suns and Bad Moons, that's true. Probably the one guy fond of painting checkerboards left GW
aracersss wrote: btw if anyone noticed ... I believe the wheel on the right isn't part of the vehicle ... the white glyph is mirrored on the other side of the double wheel on the left side. If this is correct ... THIS IS A NEW WARBOSS ON BIKE ... REPEAT NEW WARBOSS ON BIKE!!!
I doubt that this is a Warboss on a bike. A Nob, maybe, but not a Warboss.
The wheel with the white glyphs looks more like a spool of cable than a tire so it might also be in front of the vehicle, not part of it.
I noticed that there are two bike style headlights on this model. No current Ork bike has two headlights so unless this is a conversion, I expect we're looking at something new. As you mentioned in your post, the wheel on the side looks to be part of a barrier of some sort, not part of the vehicle itself. I also noticed something that could be tank tracks just above it. Possibly.
The suspicion that the tank tracks are part of the vehicle and the while is not, along with the dual headlights and second Ork behind the driver leads me to believe that this is a new Wartrakk. In fact, barring new evidence to the contrary, I feel pretty confident that it is.
aracersss wrote: btw if anyone noticed ... I believe the wheel on the right isn't part of the vehicle ... the white glyph is mirrored on the other side of the double wheel on the left side. If this is correct ... THIS IS A NEW WARBOSS ON BIKE ... REPEAT NEW WARBOSS ON BIKE!!!
I doubt that this is a Warboss on a bike. A Nob, maybe, but not a Warboss.
The wheel with the white glyphs looks more like a spool of cable than a tire so it might also be in front of the vehicle, not part of it.
I noticed that there are two bike style headlights on this model. No current Ork bike has two headlights so unless this is a conversion, I expect we're looking at something new. As you mentioned in your post, the wheel on the side looks to be part of a barrier of some sort, not part of the vehicle itself. I also noticed something that could be tank tracks just above it. Possibly.
The suspicion that the tank tracks are part of the vehicle and the while is not, along with the dual headlights and second Ork behind the driver leads me to believe that this is a new Wartrakk. In fact, barring new evidence to the contrary, I feel pretty confident that it is.
aracersss wrote: btw if anyone noticed ... I believe the wheel on the right isn't part of the vehicle ... the white glyph is mirrored on the other side of the double wheel on the left side. If this is correct ... THIS IS A NEW WARBOSS ON BIKE ... REPEAT NEW WARBOSS ON BIKE!!!
I doubt that this is a Warboss on a bike. A Nob, maybe, but not a Warboss.
The wheel with the white glyphs looks more like a spool of cable than a tire so it might also be in front of the vehicle, not part of it.
I noticed that there are two bike style headlights on this model. No current Ork bike has two headlights so unless this is a conversion, I expect we're looking at something new. As you mentioned in your post, the wheel on the side looks to be part of a barrier of some sort, not part of the vehicle itself. I also noticed something that could be tank tracks just above it. Possibly.
The suspicion that the tank tracks are part of the vehicle and the while is not, along with the dual headlights and second Ork behind the driver leads me to believe that this is a new Wartrakk. In fact, barring new evidence to the contrary, I feel pretty confident that it is.
Could those be hands instead of headlights, kinda looks like a grot head above it? I agree thought it really looks like a new enlarged wartrak.
aracersss wrote: btw if anyone noticed ... I believe the wheel on the right isn't part of the vehicle ... the white glyph is mirrored on the other side of the double wheel on the left side. If this is correct ... THIS IS A NEW WARBOSS ON BIKE ... REPEAT NEW WARBOSS ON BIKE!!!
I doubt that this is a Warboss on a bike. A Nob, maybe, but not a Warboss.
The wheel with the white glyphs looks more like a spool of cable than a tire so it might also be in front of the vehicle, not part of it.
I noticed that there are two bike style headlights on this model. No current Ork bike has two headlights so unless this is a conversion, I expect we're looking at something new. As you mentioned in your post, the wheel on the side looks to be part of a barrier of some sort, not part of the vehicle itself. I also noticed something that could be tank tracks just above it. Possibly.
The suspicion that the tank tracks are part of the vehicle and the while is not, along with the dual headlights and second Ork behind the driver leads me to believe that this is a new Wartrakk. In fact, barring new evidence to the contrary, I feel pretty confident that it is.
Could those be hands instead of headlights, kinda looks like a grot head above it? I agree thought it really looks like a new enlarged wartrak.
This model absolutely has twin headlights. Here's a better image with the foreground stuff removed. It looks like an ork boy in front with right hand on handlebar left hand holding something, most likely a shoota of some sort. The Ork in back looks very much like a Nob raising a melee weapon. The old wartrakks had a crew model with a twin-linked big shoota or a skorcha so I'm thinking a melee weapon confirms the model as a Nob. I can't tell if the Nob is holding anything in his left hand or not. The Front wheel is a dual tire setup like the FW resin one had. The rear of the vehicle has a wartrakk and a massive exhaust pipe.
In that previous pick it looks like the big ork/nob is holding a chain to keep himself on the vehicle .
The main issue with the tire/spool of wire is that we can see a dark spot in the upper left side that gives that spool of wire vibe wich can be some metal handlebar to the main body of the vehicle.
I still say it's two distinct models, because I can't see why the big ork would sit on the trakk unit sideways like a lady on horseback, plus there is the matter of the handlebar in his left.
Time to scale up 40K orcs to AoS Iron Jaws. They make better orks than the current ork line of figures which are left overs from gorkamorka.
Same thing that CHAOS MARINES need an update. I already bought AoS Blood Bound in order to make proper scale Chaos Marines rather than the tiny 90s era CSM we currently have. They look much better, sculpt wise than the old CSM too.
1, After having had it pointed out I do think that "wheel" is a spool of wire, the irregularities on the left side of the wheel (from our perspective) looks more like wire that hasn't been rolled up properly..
2, The angle the warboss is facing compared to that vehicle is a bit strange and it could be two different models. That would however make the spool of wire less likely since the warboss has some sort of grappling hook which would be a logical complement to it.
3, Some people are noticing what seems to be a handlebar in the warbosses hand but I think that's the wire/chain that he has "rolled up" once before the slack going into the spool.
4, I have no idea why some people are looking at the "warboss" as a nob. That guy is huge, how big would an actual warboss have to be if he's just a nob?
Lord Perversor wrote: The main issue with the tire/spool of wire is that we can see a dark spot in the upper left side that gives that spool of wire vibe...
I'm thinking that it's just two tires with treads like these:
Spoiler:
PiñaColada wrote: 1, After having had it pointed out I do think that "wheel" is a spool of wire, the irregularities on the left side of the wheel (from our perspective) looks more like wire that hasn't been rolled up properly.
2, The angle the warboss is facing compared to that vehicle is a bit strange and it could be two different models.
Always a possibility. In fact the idea of this being a Warboss on a bike behind the wartrakk is growing on me.
PiñaColada wrote: 3, Some people are noticing what seems to be a handlebar in the warbosses hand but I think that's the wire/chain that he has "rolled up" once before the slack going into the spool.
That's what I'm thinking.
PiñaColada wrote: 4, I have no idea why some people are looking at the "warboss" as a nob. That guy is huge, how big would an actual warboss have to be if he's just a nob?
EDIT: I'm now in agreement with those who say it is a Warboss who is NOT part of the wartrakk kit, but is actually behind the wartrakk.
But if you look at the current warbike kit, one of the bikes is already a half-trakk. I would assume this is just an upscale of that idea since the guy is so large. The whole trike thing falls between a buggy/wartrakk and a bike in my eyes so this might make the warboss on warbike an index only option and instead this guy gets a new datasheet.
If we, for arguments sake, assume this is all one model and it's a warboss this sort of size would translate quite well to a W8/9 model in my eyes. In 40k that wound characteristic is now a sweet spot.
Again, who knows? In either case, we're getting some seriously badass new models
I'm still convinced the green blob at the end of the big ork's left arm is the hand of another ork in front of him, not his hand. His elbow makes no sense even with GW anatomy if that was his hand. The only way it seems to fit together for me is if his left hand is tucked out of sight around his waist.
The thing at the front of the model does look a lot like a spool of wire or chain, but it seems to be in a position which would only really make sense for a wheel.
It's very frustrating trying to figure it out. I hope they reveal the whole thing soon and put me out of my misery!
Klaw arm definitely has a hook of some kind. You can see the chain trailing down, and I’d bet that same chain is in the other hand too.
And I still think it’s a Cable spool, not a front tyre. Looking at it, it wouldn’t come low enough to touch the ground, spesh with the glyph plate where it is.
Perfect Organism wrote: I'm still convinced the green blob at the end of the big ork's left arm is the hand of another ork in front of him, not his hand. His elbow makes no sense even with GW anatomy if that was his hand. The only way it seems to fit together for me is if his left hand is tucked out of sight around his waist.
The thing at the front of the model does look a lot like a spool of wire or chain, but it seems to be in a position which would only really make sense for a wheel.
It's very frustrating trying to figure it out. I hope they reveal the whole thing soon and put me out of my misery!
Please forgive my extremely crude trace work but I think this is where the respective models arms' go. The big guys arm looks to have a weird shape because of what I believe is some stuff behind him. The ork boy is holding a gun slightly tilted, out sideways
Don’t be silly guys! It’s clearly a photoshopped image of a weather balloon reflecting the light from the fake moon landing set on Venus through a pocket of methane made from ProCreate™. Wake up, sheeple!
I think it's a dead cert the glyph plates are covering a tyre, or pair of tyres of some sort. Whether the 'tyre' also functions as something else is to be revealed but you can clearly see the base right under the glyph plates (but not touching) and I see no other way the vehicle would move forwards without using the tyre as a contact point. It's also coloured black while the chain is clearly metallic so there is an inconsistency there.
Though I'm not convinced the boss Ork is on the same vehicle as the other I don't know what else he could be on? He looks to be big to be straddling a bike in that position. We don't want it to look like he's riding a clown bike (or do we?!). He is certainly close enough to the glyph vehicle to be on it and I think he's too close to warrant a similar vehicle of his own size. Maybe he's on foot and the pic is a red herring?
meatybtz wrote: Time to scale up 40K orcs to AoS Iron Jaws. They make better orks than the current ork line of figures which are left overs from gorkamorka.
Same thing that CHAOS MARINES need an update. I already bought AoS Blood Bound in order to make proper scale Chaos Marines rather than the tiny 90s era CSM we currently have. They look much better, sculpt wise than the old CSM too.
Disagree. I bought some Brutes to use as Big'Uns in a Mordheim warband and I've been struggling to make them look decent. The GorkaMorka "leftover" look is classic, and while they're by no means perfect(heck, I bumped everything up by one size - my Boys are made of Nobs bodies) they have something I can't quite put my finger on that the not-Orcs for AoS lack.
Yodhrin wrote: Disagree. I bought some Brutes to use as Big'Uns in a Mordheim warband and I've been struggling to make them look decent. The GorkaMorka "leftover" look is classic, and while they're by no means perfect(heck, I bumped everything up by one size - my Boys are made of Nobs bodies) they have something I can't quite put my finger on that the not-Orcs for AoS lack.
Plus imagine having those either on 25mm bases or trying to fit 200 to the board. Hrrr.
meatybtz wrote: Time to scale up 40K orcs to AoS Iron Jaws. They make better orks than the current ork line of figures which are left overs from gorkamorka.
Same thing that CHAOS MARINES need an update. I already bought AoS Blood Bound in order to make proper scale Chaos Marines rather than the tiny 90s era CSM we currently have. They look much better, sculpt wise than the old CSM too.
Disagree. I bought some Brutes to use as Big'Uns in a Mordheim warband and I've been struggling to make them look decent. The GorkaMorka "leftover" look is classic, and while they're by no means perfect(heck, I bumped everything up by one size - my Boys are made of Nobs bodies) they have something I can't quite put my finger on that the not-Orcs for AoS lack.
Different facial features in the snouts and jaws is one thing. The whole muscle anatomy on the 'Jawz is different, too, with longer, rounder, fuller muscle heads and no "alien sinews" between the heads of the deltoideus and the biceps and triceps and the triceps and its insertion points on the elbow anymore. The Brian Nelson look gave them a strikingly different arm structure with their short and bulging, almost knobby biceps and a overdeveloped proximal triceps brachii getting thinner on the distal parts of its heads and an especially developed caput lateralis plus the mentioned shoulder sinews and the overly long forearms. In comparison Ironjawz have the usual balloning muscles of most GW sculpts with even more mass, less definition - when it comes to fibre bundles - and a less alien structure in the muscles and the overlaying skin. The 'Jawz also have a more upright stance due to a less ape-like pelvis and are not as narrow in the waist.
In other words, where AoS Ironjawz are more styled after a certain Austrian Oak the Nelson style Orks are gnarly like a real oak crossed with a gorilla
From what I can see on the enhanced images the new boss or whatever that is is lacking the shoulder sinews as well. Bummer. Sculpting them isn't hard but you also need matching fibre structure in the surrounding muscles and the Nelson style deltoideus is pretty flat but wide. At that point you might as well shave the upper arm down to bone and resculpt the whole musculature. Or use Nob arms.
meatybtz wrote: Time to scale up 40K orcs to AoS Iron Jaws. They make better orks than the current ork line of figures which are left overs from gorkamorka.
Same thing that CHAOS MARINES need an update. I already bought AoS Blood Bound in order to make proper scale Chaos Marines rather than the tiny 90s era CSM we currently have. They look much better, sculpt wise than the old CSM too.
Disagree. I bought some Brutes to use as Big'Uns in a Mordheim warband and I've been struggling to make them look decent. The GorkaMorka "leftover" look is classic, and while they're by no means perfect(heck, I bumped everything up by one size - my Boys are made of Nobs bodies) they have something I can't quite put my finger on that the not-Orcs for AoS lack.
Different facial features in the snouts and jaws is one thing. The whole muscle anatomy on the 'Jawz is different, too, with longer, rounder, fuller muscle heads and no "alien sinews" between the heads of the deltoideus and the biceps and triceps and the triceps and its insertion points on the elbow anymore. The Brian Nelson look gave them a strikingly different arm structure with their short and bulging, almost knobby biceps and a overdeveloped proximal triceps brachii getting thinner on the distal parts of its heads and an especially developed caput lateralis plus the mentioned shoulder sinews and the overly long forearms. In comparison Ironjawz have the usual balloning muscles of most GW sculpts with even more mass, less definition - when it comes to fibre bundles - and a less alien structure in the muscles and the overlaying skin. The 'Jawz also have a more upright stance due to a less ape-like pelvis and are not as narrow in the waist.
In other words, where AoS Ironjawz are more styled after a certain Austrian Oak the Nelson style Orks are gnarly like a real oak crossed with a gorilla
From what I can see on the enhanced images the new boss or whatever that is is lacking the shoulder sinews as well. Bummer. Sculpting them isn't hard but you also need matching fibre structure in the surrounding muscles and the Nelson style deltoideus is pretty flat but wide. At that point you might as well shave the upper arm down to bone and resculpt the whole musculature. Or use Nob arms.
The ironjaws look was designed by Brian Nelson as well. IMHO your detailed description gives the old Ork minis way too much credit. It doesn't help that it seems only Nelson himself can sculpt anything that looks good in that style.
Has anyone commented on the other vehicle hiding in the background top right of the Shokkjump Dragster?
It's a lot easier to make out on the Youtube videos than the stills. It doesn't stand out as much as the big boss for obvious reasons but it looks new to me. It looks like it uses some parts of the new kits too. Has a pirate-y feel to me, I swear there's a bit that looks a little like a sail. Perhaps it's the Flash Dakka Snazz Wagon or whatever it was called?
An Actual Englishman wrote: Has anyone commented on the other vehicle hiding in the background top right of the Shokkjump Dragster?
It's a lot easier to make out on the Youtube videos than the stills. It doesn't stand out as much as the big boss for obvious reasons but it looks new to me. It looks like it uses some parts of the new kits too. Has a pirate-y feel to me, I swear there's a bit that looks a little like a sail. Perhaps it's the Flash Dakka Snazz Wagon or whatever it was called?
I think it's a dead cert the glyph plates are covering a tyre, or pair of tyres of some sort. Whether the 'tyre' also functions as something else is to be revealed but you can clearly see the base right under the glyph plates (but not touching) and I see no other way the vehicle would move forwards without using the tyre as a contact point. It's also coloured black while the chain is clearly metallic so there is an inconsistency there.
Though I'm not convinced the boss Ork is on the same vehicle as the other I don't know what else he could be on? He looks to be big to be straddling a bike in that position. We don't want it to look like he's riding a clown bike (or do we?!). He is certainly close enough to the glyph vehicle to be on it and I think he's too close to warrant a similar vehicle of his own size. Maybe he's on foot and the pic is a red herring?
I could imagine the tyre behind the reel - but at the same time the boss's grappling hook is clearly on a chain and not a black cable. Definitely some odd perspective going on as it looks like there's two symetrical engine covers there - the red upside down jaw things in front of the exhaust.
Looks like an odd wedge shaped vehicle, maybe two big round (smooth) dragster tyres at the back that might just out from the main body rather than being underneath part of the hull.
Is the dress gold and white or blue and black. Yannie or Laurel?
Two slim tires up front, side by side. Take a look at how the studio painted the tires on the yellow dragster: black with very smooth but pronounced grey highlights, going for a very distinct rubber look. I believe these two front tires are painted in the same manner, and that contrast is fueling our confusion.
I hadn’t noticed the huge exhaust before, but it’s a nice spot, and makes me think the back end is larger than we realize, like a lot of ork players have done by looting the sides of smashed rhinos - though I’d be VERY surprised if GW went that route with a stock kit.
And the idea that ole Bruce in the back is actually a second kit behind the vehicle is growing on me. And if that’s the case, and he’s behind a medium+ sized vehicle, then he’s gotta be freaking massive. And though it would be an easy scratch build, I want the Large Glyph tower (in other photos) to be a terrain kit... like DoW style Waaagh towers.
Aaaaaaaand I really want those two jaggy red bits (on either side of Bruce) to be huge squigs!
I relish the suspense, and I am fully onboard the hype train with this release! I’m ready for all the old grognard ork players to come back out of the woodwork and get back to it!
If Bruce is on another vehicle behind the Dragster, then the two 'iron gob exhausts' are from two different kits or they're both part of his very front heavy kit. Pose of the big 'un is a little strange, but with the driver also shooting off to the side, the two are then kind of facing in the same direction.
Could be a chariot I guess, with robosquigs - but it's clearly not a train, hype or otherwise. You've gone blind looking at blurry ork photos!
meatybtz wrote: Time to scale up 40K orcs to AoS Iron Jaws. They make better orks than the current ork line of figures which are left overs from gorkamorka.
Which Ork models are leftovers from GorkaMorka? The Boyz certainly aren't; GorkaMorka Boyz were tiny by comparison, and had much more human-like proportions. Ironjaws don't make particularly good Boyz, for the reasons explained in a scary level of anatomical detail by another poster.
As for the mystery vehicle(s), I think what looks like a front wheel with white skull glyphs is actually terrain. Judging from the focus, it seems to be in the same position as the other terrain piece. The 'treads' aren't regular enough - you can see it's not even properly circular. I think there is a front wheel with heavy, bronze-coloured forks behind it, and that seems to be part of what looks like a Wartrak. It looks as though the 'boss' model is standing in the back of it, but I agree his angle seems to be wrong. However, if he was behind that vehicle, then he'd be enormous.
Snord wrote: Which Ork models are leftovers from GorkaMorka?
The buggy and wartrakk would be the last of them... and the wartrakk may have actually been a 2nd ed 40K release, I don't recall for sure. Other than those, there were a runtherd, mek and doc which I think would have been the last holdouts before all the metals were dumped, but they're long gone now.
I am fine with the general style of the Brian Nelson Orks, in fact it looks really good (just look at his absolutely classic Orc Shaman), but the Ork Boyz kit is one of my least favorite GW kits ever. The head-in-chest, squatting-potbellied-gorilla-with-butt-poking-out-look is hideous, and one of the reasons I could never play the army despite thinking about it many times. The Ironjawz on the other hand are one of the designs GW has done in recent years, retaining and indeed enhancing the brutish look but getting rid of the silly anatomy. On the other hand, I Think Brian Nelson sculpted the Ork Boyz as well, so their ugliness might be due to the limits of plastic technology at the time. His metal sculpts don't have anywhere near the same level of gorilla-ness.
I really like the Ork boyz kit, despite the silly gorilla style - individually the may look a bit anatomically weird, but together in a big mob they look great.
Although the Brutes do look great, they are also different, and the faces don’t really match my other Orks, which is why I am using Nob heads.
My favorite Ork sculpts are the Savage Orcs though - they look amazing - they are less gorilla-like than regular boyz, and their faces don’t look as round and fat as the Brutes. There are only 10 models though, with limited poseability, which is a shame.
Snord wrote: Which Ork models are leftovers from GorkaMorka?
The buggy and wartrakk would be the last of them... and the wartrakk may have actually been a 2nd ed 40K release, I don't recall for sure. Other than those, there were a runtherd, mek and doc which I think would have been the last holdouts before all the metals were dumped, but they're long gone now.
The Warbuggy pre-dates GorkaMorka; it appeared during 2nd Edition WH40k(!). It was sold with some metal add-ons as part of the GorkaMorka range. The Wartrak is from GorkaMorka (hence the look of the gunner). But I think the poster I was responding to was commenting on Orks generally - hence his reference to Ironjaws.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mymearan wrote: I am fine with the general style of the Brian Nelson Orks, in fact it looks really good (just look at his absolutely classic Orc Shaman), but the Ork Boyz kit is one of my least favorite GW kits ever. The head-in-chest, squatting-potbellied-gorilla-with-butt-poking-out-look is hideous, and one of the reasons I could never play the army despite thinking about it many times. The Ironjawz on the other hand are one of the designs GW has done in recent years, retaining and indeed enhancing the brutish look but getting rid of the silly anatomy. On the other hand, I Think Brian Nelson sculpted the Ork Boyz as well, so their ugliness might be due to the limits of plastic technology at the time. His metal sculpts don't have anywhere near the same level of gorilla-ness.
I like Nelson's plastic Boyz. They have a dynamism that goes well with their character. Put them in a group and they look like a bunch of bloodthirsty hoodlums. One reason for their physique was so that the torso would be posable - it was nothing to do with the technology of the time. They were based on hand-sculpted prototypes, while newer Ork/Orcs are CADs (and tend to look a bit flatter and less dynamic). We've lost a lot of that posability in the newer plastics. Another advantage they have over more recent Ork/Orc models is that they are very easy to convert. Try modifying models like the Ironjaws - in fact, try assembling them without following the instructions!
Snord wrote: Which Ork models are leftovers from GorkaMorka?
The buggy and wartrakk would be the last of them... and the wartrakk may have actually been a 2nd ed 40K release, I don't recall for sure. Other than those, there were a runtherd, mek and doc which I think would have been the last holdouts before all the metals were dumped, but they're long gone now.
The Warbuggy pre-dates GorkaMorka; it appeared during 2nd Edition WH40k(!). It was sold with some metal add-ons as part of the GorkaMorka range. The Wartrak is from GorkaMorka (hence the look of the gunner). But I think the poster I was responding to was commenting on Orks generally - hence his reference to Ironjaws.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mymearan wrote: I am fine with the general style of the Brian Nelson Orks, in fact it looks really good (just look at his absolutely classic Orc Shaman), but the Ork Boyz kit is one of my least favorite GW kits ever. The head-in-chest, squatting-potbellied-gorilla-with-butt-poking-out-look is hideous, and one of the reasons I could never play the army despite thinking about it many times. The Ironjawz on the other hand are one of the designs GW has done in recent years, retaining and indeed enhancing the brutish look but getting rid of the silly anatomy. On the other hand, I Think Brian Nelson sculpted the Ork Boyz as well, so their ugliness might be due to the limits of plastic technology at the time. His metal sculpts don't have anywhere near the same level of gorilla-ness.
I like Nelson's plastic Boyz. They have a dynamism that goes well with their character. Put them in a group and they look like a bunch of bloodthirsty hoodlums. One reason for their physique was so that the torso would be posable - it was nothing to do with the technology of the time. They were based on hand-sculpted prototypes, while newer Ork/Orcs are CADs (and tend to look a bit flatter and less dynamic). We've lost a lot of that posability in the newer plastics. Another advantage they have over more recent Ork/Orc models is that they are very easy to convert. Try modifying models like the Ironjaws - in fact, try assembling them without following the instructions!
I Second that. I like the first version of the kit with the separatate shootas even more.
This kit is gold. Even compatible with the WF orcs for conversions.
Impossible with the newer kits.
Mymearan wrote: I am fine with the general style of the Brian Nelson Orks, in fact it looks really good (just look at his absolutely classic Orc Shaman), but the Ork Boyz kit is one of my least favorite GW kits ever. The head-in-chest, squatting-potbellied-gorilla-with-butt-poking-out-look is hideous, and one of the reasons I could never play the army despite thinking about it many times. The Ironjawz on the other hand are one of the designs GW has done in recent years, retaining and indeed enhancing the brutish look but getting rid of the silly anatomy. On the other hand, I Think Brian Nelson sculpted the Ork Boyz as well, so their ugliness might be due to the limits of plastic technology at the time. His metal sculpts don't have anywhere near the same level of gorilla-ness.
I can't find it, but in an interview he once said that his orks were a cross between rugby hooligans and gorillas. Their posture comes actual gorillas standing upright, so the hideous posture is actually 100% natural.
This picture shows two "boxing" gorillas looking a lot like ork boyz.
Spoiler:
Also note that ork boyz are based on the same models as lootaz/burnas, warbikers, battlewagon gunners and the runtherd from the gretchin box. Replacing boyz would mean to replace them all.
Also note that ork boyz are based on the same models as lootaz/burnas, warbikers, battlewagon gunners and the runtherd from the gretchin box. Replacing boyz would mean to replace them all.
I heard that Mekboy Bell-Crawl was making Bigga-Mega Orks for the Ork Overlord Urrlak Urruk circa the Great Crusade but he was trapped in his own coffee machine bubble chukker for the last 10,000 years.
The bubble has now burst and now Bigga-Mega Orks have been released to Waaaah in the 41st millenium
MangoMadness wrote: I heard that Mekboy Bell-Crawl was making Bigga-Mega Orks for the Ork Overlord Urrlak Urruk circa the Great Crusade but he was trapped in his own coffee machine bubble chukker for the last 10,000 years.
The bubble has now burst and now Bigga-Mega Orks have been released to Waaaah in the 41st millenium
Snord wrote: Which Ork models are leftovers from GorkaMorka?
The buggy and wartrakk would be the last of them... and the wartrakk may have actually been a 2nd ed 40K release, I don't recall for sure. Other than those, there were a runtherd, mek and doc which I think would have been the last holdouts before all the metals were dumped, but they're long gone now.
The Warbuggy pre-dates GorkaMorka; it appeared during 2nd Edition WH40k(!). It was sold with some metal add-ons as part of the GorkaMorka range. The Wartrak is from GorkaMorka (hence the look of the gunner). But I think the poster I was responding to was commenting on Orks generally - hence his reference to Ironjaws.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mymearan wrote: I am fine with the general style of the Brian Nelson Orks, in fact it looks really good (just look at his absolutely classic Orc Shaman), but the Ork Boyz kit is one of my least favorite GW kits ever. The head-in-chest, squatting-potbellied-gorilla-with-butt-poking-out-look is hideous, and one of the reasons I could never play the army despite thinking about it many times. The Ironjawz on the other hand are one of the designs GW has done in recent years, retaining and indeed enhancing the brutish look but getting rid of the silly anatomy. On the other hand, I Think Brian Nelson sculpted the Ork Boyz as well, so their ugliness might be due to the limits of plastic technology at the time. His metal sculpts don't have anywhere near the same level of gorilla-ness.
I like Nelson's plastic Boyz. They have a dynamism that goes well with their character. Put them in a group and they look like a bunch of bloodthirsty hoodlums. One reason for their physique was so that the torso would be posable - it was nothing to do with the technology of the time. They were based on hand-sculpted prototypes, while newer Ork/Orcs are CADs (and tend to look a bit flatter and less dynamic). We've lost a lot of that posability in the newer plastics. Another advantage they have over more recent Ork/Orc models is that they are very easy to convert. Try modifying models like the Ironjaws - in fact, try assembling them without following the instructions!
Personally I much prefer less posability if it means better-looking models. Honestly, truly flexible multi-pose models usually look pretty bad, and I'm glad GW has gone towards more dynamic and realistic poses, even if it means we can't twist the torso to the left or right like we used to. If I really want to (and I often do) I can modify any kit I want with a bit of cutting and some green stuff, regardless of the designer's intent. Back in the day it wasn't unusual to create a big regiment of metal models using only 5-10 different poses at most, and converting those was not an easy feat... then they went to plastic multi-pose and the aesthetics suffered heavily. The modern approach is really the best of both Worlds.
One of the things the plastic ork/ orc kits suffered from was the parts for the ladz were by a group of designers, that included Brian Nelson, which goes a long way towards explaining the quality of the parts being all over the place. If Brian had sculpted every part for all of the kits, some of the hideous anatomy probably would have been mitigated. But Aly Morrison sculpted quite a bit for those kits and you can pretty much pick out which ones he did just by looking at them.
meatybtz wrote: Time to scale up 40K orcs to AoS Iron Jaws. They make better orks than the current ork line of figures which are left overs from gorkamorka.
Same thing that CHAOS MARINES need an update. I already bought AoS Blood Bound in order to make proper scale Chaos Marines rather than the tiny 90s era CSM we currently have. They look much better, sculpt wise than the old CSM too.
Disagree. I bought some Brutes to use as Big'Uns in a Mordheim warband and I've been struggling to make them look decent. The GorkaMorka "leftover" look is classic, and while they're by no means perfect(heck, I bumped everything up by one size - my Boys are made of Nobs bodies) they have something I can't quite put my finger on that the not-Orcs for AoS lack.
Different facial features in the snouts and jaws is one thing. The whole muscle anatomy on the 'Jawz is different, too, with longer, rounder, fuller muscle heads and no "alien sinews" between the heads of the deltoideus and the biceps and triceps and the triceps and its insertion points on the elbow anymore. The Brian Nelson look gave them a strikingly different arm structure with their short and bulging, almost knobby biceps and a overdeveloped proximal triceps brachii getting thinner on the distal parts of its heads and an especially developed caput lateralis plus the mentioned shoulder sinews and the overly long forearms. In comparison Ironjawz have the usual balloning muscles of most GW sculpts with even more mass, less definition - when it comes to fibre bundles - and a less alien structure in the muscles and the overlaying skin. The 'Jawz also have a more upright stance due to a less ape-like pelvis and are not as narrow in the waist.
In other words, where AoS Ironjawz are more styled after a certain Austrian Oak the Nelson style Orks are gnarly like a real oak crossed with a gorilla
From what I can see on the enhanced images the new boss or whatever that is is lacking the shoulder sinews as well. Bummer. Sculpting them isn't hard but you also need matching fibre structure in the surrounding muscles and the Nelson style deltoideus is pretty flat but wide. At that point you might as well shave the upper arm down to bone and resculpt the whole musculature. Or use Nob arms.
The ironjaws look was designed by Brian Nelson as well. IMHO your detailed description gives the old Ork minis way too much credit. It doesn't help that it seems only Nelson himself can sculpt anything that looks good in that style.
He did? Then my shorthand of calling the 40k stuff Nelson-style makes no sense, of course. I knew he did the Warboss, so I could've guessed.
I didn't try to say that Ironjawz are inferior or anything, just that the 40k and old fantasy Orks/Orcs have a less human anatomy than the 'Jawz. So IMO mixing them is difficult with the differences, but maybe that's the orthopaedist in me
Is anyone else suddely nostalgic for the current uggo buggy? I said before how it came out the same year I got infected by the GW bug, so it might be just that. But right now there seem to be none to get at domestic ebay and 25€ from GW? Get outta here! Still, it'd look cute next to its flashier new siblings when outfitted with a new gun and crew.
MangoMadness wrote: I heard that Mekboy Bell-Crawl was making Bigga-Mega Orks for the Ork Overlord Urrlak Urruk circa the Great Crusade but he was trapped in his own coffee machine bubble chukker for the last 10,000 years.
The bubble has now burst and now Bigga-Mega Orks have been released to Waaaah in the 41st millenium
Savage! But so, sooo correct.
If you ever need a summary of Dark Imperium this guy got you covered!
I dislike the faces on the Ironjawz. Don't know exactly what it is but they strike me as more "bat-like" rather than our Orks that are more "piggish". The model poses and such are fantastic though lack dynamism for me. Why they are so static is beyond me.
Hopefully Big Gunz are gone, they're fething awful models and don't really have a place in the game anymore.
Snord wrote: Which Ork models are leftovers from GorkaMorka?
The buggy and wartrakk would be the last of them... and the wartrakk may have actually been a 2nd ed 40K release, I don't recall for sure. Other than those, there were a runtherd, mek and doc which I think would have been the last holdouts before all the metals were dumped, but they're long gone now.
The old buggies looked good, it was the drivers that were a bit rubbish imo. But the new kit looks pretty sick as well.
I'm looking forward to Primaris Orks or whatever they will be called. I love the current Ork Boyz models, so having the new bigger Orks be a separate thing will be perfect. Orks react to warp energy, so the opening of the great rift can easily be explained causing some sort of apotheosis amongst the Orks.
Hopefully Big Gunz are gone, they're fething awful models and don't really have a place in the game anymore.
I don't hope for that, though they really need new models. I'm sure GW knows this, and so may remove them for that reason, making them battlewagon only. Still I would welcome their return as artillery pieces as they are really useful in the game, way better than the not so good (too random) mek gunz we got last time.
Or they may stay, time will tell. I have plenty of them and still use them time to time.
I'd also hate to see Big Gunz go as an Ork (Grot) unit, but agree the models need updating badly. (Although the current model is very easy to buy cheap alternatives for!) Don't think there is anything much more Orky when it comes to tactics than:
'Oi you little runtz, stay bak outta way and Dakka dem humies, we Orks go and do propa krumpin n killin up close!'
Nazrak wrote: I really don’t get why everyone’s obsessed with wanting models getting bigger. Eventually you run out of space or need a bigger table.
They just look cool as all large models on the table do. You feel more accomplished painting since you only have 1 unit to do vs 30 boys. Plus even though they aren't usually as effective it's pretty scary to have to fight through multiple large models. My brother loves running carnifexes and even though they aren't super efficient the table always looks action packed.
Nazrak wrote: I really don’t get why everyone’s obsessed with wanting models getting bigger. Eventually you run out of space or need a bigger table.
Because big things are cool, even if they are impractical. That's an old stable of fiction.
It's also a staple of Ork mentality "Bigga is better!".
It's not so much about having larger models per-se, but the reason we want a bigger Warboss is because the current models are pretty puny compared to how they're described in the fluff. When there's these beasts like Magnus and Mortarion knocking about, or even Girlyman, who all look they could pick up our current Warboss model by the scruff of the neck and drop-kick them across the table, it makes me feel sad breaks immersion. It also makes me think that my army is not a credible threat. Orks should be scary. Funny too. But also scary. This should be represented by their models.
The beastly "Banner" Ork we've all been speculating about in the background of that pic is exactly what our bosses should look like, at least in my mind. Imposing, menacing and jacked. Like they could actually take on a Primarch and at least make them sweat rather than get punted across the room.
i'm fine with our boyz not getting a size increase but our Bosses should definitely get bigger.
The current ones are barely bigger at all. Just big enough to be easily noticeable that its a larger ork model than usual.
Nazrak wrote: I really don’t get why everyone’s obsessed with wanting models getting bigger. Eventually you run out of space or need a bigger table.
GW wants to brainwash people into thinking bigger is better. I visited the local GW last week and spotted the mound of plastic which is called GUO. It costs 110 Euro (220 DM). Mine costed 30 DM and is slightly bigger than a Terminator. Needless to say I will never buy the new kit.
Nazrak wrote: I really don’t get why everyone’s obsessed with wanting models getting bigger. Eventually you run out of space or need a bigger table.
GW wants to brainwash people into thinking bigger is better. I visited the local GW last week and spotted the mound of plastic which is called GUO. It costs 110 Euro (220 DM). Mine costed 30 DM and is slightly bigger than a Terminator. Needless to say I will never buy the new kit.
I second this opinion. Same here with my Keeper of Secrets.
Well no plastic yet for them, but still...
Nazrak wrote: I really don’t get why everyone’s obsessed with wanting models getting bigger. Eventually you run out of space or need a bigger table.
GW wants to brainwash people into thinking bigger is better. I visited the local GW last week and spotted the mound of plastic which is called GUO. It costs 110 Euro (220 DM). Mine costed 30 DM and is slightly bigger than a Terminator. Needless to say I will never buy the new kit.
I thought Alex Jones was banned from the internet.
The only person who can truly emulate Nelson is/was Seb Perpet, each of his models was fantastic, as has been said, those not sculpted by either of those eguys have been a bit hit or miss, especially the painboss.
Why people even compare ork physiology with humans and if it differs from humans it's wrong? They aren't humans. They are orks. Who says every alien has same proportions as humans? Previously shown gorilla picture seems quite fitting.
No one is saying that. If you actually read what has been said, it’s that the anatomy of the Orruks is different to that of Orks, which makes mixing and matching iffy.
Ironjawz really do not have human physiology either, they're like gorillas too, just less cartoony. I want Orks like that. When I say this I don't mean normal boys should be that big, merely the proportions. Ironjawz brute size is good for nobs.
Crimson wrote: Ironjawz really do not have human physiology either, they're like gorillas too, just less cartoony. I want Orks like that. When I say this I don't mean normal boys should be that big, merely the proportions. Ironjawz brute size is good for nobs.
Crimson wrote: Ironjawz really do not have human physiology either, they're like gorillas too, just less cartoony. I want Orks like that. When I say this I don't mean normal boys should be that big, merely the proportions. Ironjawz brute size is good for nobs.
They don't look like gorillas at all, IMHO, save for (a tiny little bit) on the face. The rest? They're basically the Hulk, no gorilla there at all.
The difference is specially clear when comparing the old Black orcs (Ardboyz or whatever) with the new ones from the Ironskull's Boyz box:
Crimson wrote: The old orks do not look like any real living creature, they look like they're from a cartoon.
And so do the ironjawz, only completely upright and much wider. Less interesting anatomy, IMHO, and more boring "brickhouse superhero", but cartoon nonetheless.
Crimson wrote: Ironjawz really do not have human physiology either, they're like gorillas too, just less cartoony. I want Orks like that. When I say this I don't mean normal boys should be that big, merely the proportions. Ironjawz brute size is good for nobs.
They don't look like gorillas at all, IMHO, save for (a tiny little bit) on the face. The rest? They're basically the Hulk, no gorilla there at all.
The difference is specially clear when comparing the old Black orcs (Ardboyz or whatever) with the new ones from the Ironskull's Boyz box:
The new ones are basically built like the orcs from the WoW movie.
Out of all the new Orruks, Ironskull's Boys look the most like the old (Black) Orcs to me - far less different than the other Orruks, whose proportions look a bit "off", at least to me.
Crimson wrote: Ironjawz really do not have human physiology either, they're like gorillas too, just less cartoony. I want Orks like that. When I say this I don't mean normal boys should be that big, merely the proportions. Ironjawz brute size is good for nobs.
They don't look like gorillas at all, IMHO, save for (a tiny little bit) on the face. The rest? They're basically the Hulk, no gorilla there at all.
The difference is specially clear when comparing the old Black orcs (Ardboyz or whatever) with the new ones from the Ironskull's Boyz box:
The new ones are basically built like the orcs from the WoW movie.
Out of all the new Orruks, Ironskull's Boys look the most like the old (Black) Orcs to me - far less different than the other Orruks, whose proportions look a bit "off", at least to me.
The difference is stark to me on these ones because they are supposed to be exactly the same orcs YMMV.
Crimson wrote: The old orks do not look like any real living creature, they look like they're from a cartoon.
40k is a Saturday morning cartoon for adults. That's the appeal. It's tongue and cheek about some of the harshest subjects in our own world.
Nothing in 40k is realistic looking. Closest you get is a guard tank and even that lacks the suspension to even move. I mean, the majority of the factions in the game fight outside space suits as if every planet has the same atmosphere and every alien breathes the same air.
40k gets much worse as a game the more it tries to ground itself and stops embracing the schlock.
Crimson wrote: The old orks do not look like any real living creature, they look like they're from a cartoon.
40k is a Saturday morning cartoon for adults. That's the appeal. It's tongue and cheek about some of the harshest subjects in our own world.
Nothing in 40k is realistic looking. Closest you get is a guard tank and even that lacks the suspension to even move. I mean, the majority of the factions in the game fight outside space suits as if every planet has the same atmosphere and every alien breathes the same air.
40k gets much worse as a game the more it tries to ground itself and stops embracing the schlock.
I dont think hes arguing about the realism, hes just saying that they look bad.
Crimson wrote: The old orks do not look like any real living creature, they look like they're from a cartoon.
40k is a Saturday morning cartoon for adults. That's the appeal. It's tongue and cheek about some of the harshest subjects in our own world.
Nothing in 40k is realistic looking. Closest you get is a guard tank and even that lacks the suspension to even move. I mean, the majority of the factions in the game fight outside space suits as if every planet has the same atmosphere and every alien breathes the same air.
40k gets much worse as a game the more it tries to ground itself and stops embracing the schlock.
I dont think hes arguing about the realism, hes just saying that they look bad.
Red Corsair wrote: 40k is a Saturday morning cartoon for adults. That's the appeal.
I do not agree.
Maybe true for those who likes Orks - but for the majority of the people in the hobby I know and play with it is the gritty, somewhat realistic, grimdark future that holds the key. I.e. more Bladerunner + Mad Max + Starship Troopers (done in Blanchitsu-style) than a cartoon. This also means that we have no interest in the Orks themselves - but the new vehicles will be very welcome!
Dunno what ya’ll are on about...but plastic Boyz are one of the best looking 40k kits there is: funny since it’s one of, if not the, oldest ones left.
There’s a ton of room for improvement like ascessory sprues for more varied gear; but the boys are a masterpiece of bloodthirsty, and hilarious little hooligans!
Bitharne wrote: Dunno what ya’ll are on about...but plastic Boyz are one of the best looking 40k kits there is: funny since it’s one of, if not the, oldest ones left.
There’s a ton of room for improvement like ascessory sprues for more varied gear; but the boys are a masterpiece of bloodthirsty, and hilarious little hooligans!
The basic boy kit got a fairly decent upgrade at the end of 5th edition.
Just because they're not one kit, doesn't mean they aren't compatible though.Could easily be a case like the recent human infantry units - where despite being on different sprues for different models, there's enough common connection points that you can mix and match a lot of different bits - crew, fronts, wheels, spoilers/turrets etc.
SKR.HH wrote: Somebody definitely watched too much Mad Max while sculpting... Great one. Much better than the buggies.
Check the grot hanging out the window. It’s the same kit as the first one.
Checked it next to each other, different grot (facing the other way). Different rear body is the biggest give away.
So is this one also in the box (seen as it is on the front cover) or is it going to be sold in a stand alone box?
Of course he is! My bad.
GW don’t seem to put things on the cover that ain’t in the box so I assume all four will be there. Whether or not they have full options is another matter. I think it would also be odd if these were all separate kits given how similar they are, but who knows with GW these days.
According to Kirioth (guy who did video in OP) someone sent him the names of the Kustom Boosta-Blasta and Shokkjump Dragster (or whatever they're called) in advance of the announcement from Warhammer Community.
The person also gave the name of 3 other vehicles that he believes are coming. Bring but also pray, because some of these sound incredible;
"Boom-Dakka Snazz Wagon"
"Mega Trakk Scrap jet"
and my personal favourite;
"Squig Buggies"(!!!!!)
I don't think any of those is the rumoured boss vehicle either. It just doesn't sound like any of them to me, unless it's an alternative build of course.
See, now that's the kind of thing that I had in mind when folk started talking about an update to the Buggy. I even quite like the crew models, which is unusual for the more modern Ork designs.
I hope the scrap jet really is as big as the BW, I can only imagine.
With those what is the model(s) we have been analysing? Surly not the Scrap Jet???? Actually what we must have been analysing is the rumored boss vehicle.
While that new one looks snazzy...as a non-Ork player I know that seeing them in grey plastic will become confusing if they're supposed to all be different vehicles. I wish they were far more identifiable...unless they're supposed to be two options of the same chassis.
I hope the scrap jet really is as big as the BW, I can only imagine.
With those what is the model(s) we have been analysing? Surly not the Scrap Jet????
Actually what we must have been analysing is the rumored boss vehicle.
Scrapjet could be anything. Could be boss vehicle but I reckon that'll have a different name. I'm beyond hyped at this point.
Squig Buggies man. Squig. Buggies. If we get a new warboss/lord model it'll be the end for me.
These new vehicles look incredible to paint as well. The blue scheme is great but of course I'll be hitting it up with red paint.
Someone mentioned that the megatrakk skrap-jet could just be a plastic remake of the big trakk, since that vehicle actually fits the description quite well.
Not sure how likely that is though
Start googling up ramen recipes boyz, I have a feeling a lot of us will go hungry in Orktober
Here's a picture of all three side by side, definitely some shared bits - far as 3D design went at least, and I think each buggy clearly has it's own unique bits. But this might make it easier to see if there are any bits of roll bar or exhaust that get repurposed as different things between the models.
Doesn't look the case to me.
I have this weird feeling that Squig Buggies are a catch-all category for the old models that don't have the guns and wargear of the four new snazzily named vehicle classes.
I like the look of the new buggy. The orks on it look more like the newer AoS orruks to me. I thought the previous buggies looked more like the orks were used to, but looking at the Shokkjump Dragsta it could go either way and the stills from the video of the first new buggy are a little blurry. I tend to prefer the look of the 40k Ork Boyz to the AoS Ironjawz brutes, but I still think the model looks really good.
I definitely enjoy the mad max look. The grot strapped to the front is pushing it a little too far for me in terms of being to similar to Fury Road, but again that's a minor quibble and I still think the new model is really good.
If the megatrakk scrapjet is an equivalent of the FW Big Trakk that would make me happy. It's one of the most versatile vehicles for creating many ork vehicles that have either been cut or never had normal 40k rules.
I hope they don't axe Big Gunz. I like the traditional Big Gunz, and while the models were old I didn't think they looked bad. I do think they needed an update mostly because they were expensive and finecast. A battery of three Big Gunz in one plastic kit at a reasonable price would make me really happy, but I'm not getting my hopes up. Even if they do axe them I'll still have the Index so I can use my dozens of Big Gunz for Narrative/Casual games, but it would still be a shame to see them go.
Looks cool. Is that the same engine we say on the first?
No it is not, it is a different kit.
So this looks to be confirmation that the AoS Orruk look is crossing over into 40k. Those look exactly like Ironjawz. Makes me very happy, and if they just remake the Boyz kit in the same style I would be all over the army.
hmm, i was wrong about the snazwagon (i thought it would be some type of battle wagon filled with guns), but i love the design of this and its good to see this guy outside the speedfreeks box art.
i suspect the trackscrapjet is probably be that warboss on vehicle in that shocklump pic (but hey, i can be wrong again).
still think the squig buggie is going to be something to help flesh out the snakebite range, but i do like the idea of it being the replacement of the current buggy. i love these 3 new vehicles but they are so different then what the current buggies are that it would be hard to run any current buggies we might own as these new vehicles (way different/number of wepons and size of model), but having something smaller then these and maybe with the same wpn options then we can use our old buggies/tracks as new squig buggies. (this way we can at least have a model that helps represent those that will have updated rules and points over time, because if the current buggies we have are left in the codex then they will languish with index rules). also if the squigbuggie is small looking then it would help fill out the model range for speed freeks. with smallest being bikes, then squigbuggies (with my theory of them being the size of old warbuggies), then the new shockjump/boomkanister/snazzwagon, then you have trukks and battlewagons being the biggest (outside of FW).
also, some theories on the designs of the squigbuggies wpns.
since with the new kit has some obvious influences from madmax furry road then maybe the "roket" wpn option i hope they have is literal rokets on spears.
the skorcha could be a big fat oil squig with a hose attached to its gob.
and the bigshoota would be the most haphazard scrapped from other orks type of bigshoots. if there was any faction that could make the bigshoota look more scrappy it would be the snakebites.
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote: I hope they don't axe Big Gunz. I like the traditional Big Gunz, and while the models were old I didn't think they looked bad. I do think they needed an update mostly because they were expensive and finecast. A battery of three Big Gunz in one plastic kit at a reasonable price would make me really happy, but I'm not getting my hopes up. Even if they do axe them I'll still have the Index so I can use my dozens of Big Gunz for Narrative/Casual games, but it would still be a shame to see them go.
I cannot agree more.
I actually like the older gunz also, and have 2 batteries of each type.
I would certainly be pissed if they got axed.
Same with the buggies: new models? Nice. But I hope they do not get rid of the older weapon
options because of that.
Brence wrote: Love the models! Would love them even more if rumors are true and its a Gaslands/GorkaMorka type thing instead of a splash release for the buggies!
I would hope that is exactly what is happening,, with the huge resurgence with Necromunda... this is the perfect time to work in the Gorka-Morka aspect and the ash wastes... chance to take current and new human gangs out from under the hive as well as bring the orks in.... even if this is not the end all for the Gorka-Morka... its can be a perfect lead in.... I can just imagine a horde of these buggies trying to take down a convoy of Goliath Trucks and Rockgrinders with cultist on them... would be freaking awesome!!!!
Brence wrote: Love the models! Would love them even more if rumors are true and its a Gaslands/GorkaMorka type thing instead of a splash release for the buggies!
I'm hoping someone will make upscaled Gaslands templates for these.
So, someone is posting pictures from the October white dwarf already and they posted some AoS pictures. There is hope we might see some Ork stuff early.
Kendo wrote: So, someone is posting pictures from the October white dwarf already and they posted some AoS pictures. There is hope we might see some Ork stuff early.
Kendo wrote: So, someone is posting pictures from the October white dwarf already and they posted some AoS pictures. There is hope we might see some Ork stuff early.
Please do not attach non-wargaming images to your posts - BrookM
didnt realize this was a thread rule?
anyways, nova is literally next week. i would've thought this latest vehicle preview would've been there. maybe they will reveal the rumored squigbuggy at nova (so far they've been doing 1 vehicle at a time for us).
are there any other events after nova that we might expect any more news? if not then we would need to rely on leaks all through September.
Please do not attach non-wargaming images to your posts - BrookM
didnt realize this was a thread rule?
anyways, nova is literally next week. i would've thought this latest vehicle preview would've been there. maybe they will reveal the rumored squigbuggy at nova (so far they've been doing 1 vehicle at a time for us).
are there any other events after nova that we might expect any more news? if not then we would need to rely on leaks all through September.
Tastyfish wrote: Blood axes have looted vehicles, so that leaves the jet for Goffs, and Squigs for snakebites...might be what they were thinking?
I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say. All the clans use looted vehicles, but Death Skulls use the most. The Boomdakka Snazzwagon they previewed was in Death Skulls colors and wasn't a looted vehicle.
It would be cool if squig buggies turned out to be something that Snakebites could use to fill out Fast Attack choices while staying thematic. Kannons and Lobbas were a thematic choice for them in Heavy Support, which is one reason I'm hoping they don't get axed. There's still the Squiggoth, but it is expensive.
Any image attached to a forum post (as opposed to hot-linking to the image from another site) that is not related to gaming or is copyrighted may be deleted.
geargutz wrote: either GW plans these leaks or they are very quick to put out an article to not miss the "hype".
They want official pictures out, not blurry earthquake-o-vision photos. That's why they're so quick on the jump.
Agreed. I imagine a few of the recent leaks we've seen would have been officially revealed at NOVA if it weren't for the leaks.
Previously reliable rumour mongers were saying Moonclan for AoS was planned to be shown at GenCon. It's entirely possible that they switched the reveals around so they could show Moonclan, the only one not yet leaked, at NOVA to make a big splash.
I haven't been paying very much attention for the past decade or so, but isn't this the first time in a long time that GW has thrown a really overt pop culture reference on a model like this?
General Helstrom wrote: I haven't been paying very much attention for the past decade or so, but isn't this the first time in a long time that GW has thrown a really overt pop culture reference on a model like this?
I'd be happy to be wrong about this though
Marbo also has some visible pop culture cues for sure.
Frankly, this new ork speedwagon is a bit tooooo smooth and refined for orks.
Looks a bit too much like it may actually work, on its own,
without faith in Mork and Gork to move it along.
PLus the orks themselves are too.... orruky.
Too neat and crisp and clean, 'like they smell of aftershave and filtered cigarettes.
jeff white wrote: Frankly, this new ork speedwagon is a bit tooooo smooth and refined for orks.
Looks a bit too much like it may actually work, on its own,
without faith in Mork and Gork to move it along.
PLus the orks themselves are too.... orruky.
Too neat and crisp and clean, 'like they smell of aftershave and filtered cigarettes.
Head swaps, heavy washes and weathering and massive conversion freedom/plasticard butchery are the cornerstones of Ork player's modeling experiences.
Any official Ork model is only the beginning, any mek worth his teef knows that.
I just love how the steering wheel is on the right, as it is in the UK. I think this is the first really traditional-ish vehicle GW did with a steering wheel in a specific position.
The Taurox also has the steering wheel there and the Ork Trukk kit allows you to mount the driver either the right side, or the wrong one, depending on where you reside.
Promises of more Ork spoilers this weekend at Nova. I wonder if they will stick with the week before preview model for update codexs or go into more details like they do for some of the bigger news codexs like Knights.
Kendo wrote: Promises of more Ork spoilers this weekend at Nova. I wonder if they will stick with the week before preview model for update codexs or go into more details like they do for some of the bigger news codexs like Knights.
Looks a bit too much like it may actually work, on its own,
without faith in Mork and Gork to move it along.
Ugh...this snippet of fluff is my pet hate in 40K. It only appeared in one Ork Codex, back in 3rd Edition IIRC, as one of those 'primary source' documents they were doing at the time, and it was speculation by a Magos Biologis declared a heretic for his borderline-admiration for Orks and their adaptability. I mean, it's broadly consistent with the way Ork psionics works, but it's basically just a joke that for some reason has survived to be repeated uncritically all over the internet. Every wiki treats it like it's some central aspect of Ork fluff when it's never even been mentioned since!
Orks can build stuff that works. Their guns shoot, their buggies drive, their spaceships fly. If they just used their latent psychic energy to power their technology, there'd be no need for Meks' abilities to be encoded into their DNA: they could just nail together bits of any old scrap and just have the Boyz used their mind bullets to kill the enemy.
Indeed. I tend to think that the "psychic field" might act as "magic grease" to help some bits of gear work slightly better than they should - or work when they shouldn't quite - but that's it. After all, the Diggaz' stuff worked in Gorkamorka, and they weren't Orks.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Indeed. I tend to think that the "psychic field" might act as "magic grease" to help some bits of gear work slightly better than they should - or work when they shouldn't quite - but that's it. After all, the Diggaz' stuff worked in Gorkamorka, and they weren't Orks.
Yeah, and that was before they even made up the clap-your-hands-if-you-believe version of Ork technology!
At the time, in fact, Armageddon Ork Hunters could use their guns too. GW have never been consistent about it, which is why I always treated it as a joke/speculation that could be safely ignored. If it didn't get given undue weight online, it would have rightfully been forgotten.
jeff white wrote: Frankly, this new ork speedwagon is a bit tooooo smooth and refined for orks.
It's easier to add plates than remove them and easier to scratch-build angular parts if you prefer those to rounded ones, so I'm all for ork vehicles being fairly smooth and curvy.
I also posted this in the ork rumours thread but in case anyone hasn't seen it:
I'll make some bullet points later if noone beats me to it. But some interesting stuff in here
The previous leaked clan traits seem to be true unfortunately..
No warboss, painboy or big mek on bike.
New wartrike model.
The squig buggies are actually named rockettrukk squig buggy
Ghaz is apparently amazing, don't know if it's a new model
There's a mekshop that buffs vehicles sort of like the forgeshrine for knights but this one seems good.
Dakkadakkadakka is an army wide rule, 6's generates extra shots.
Apparently the gorkanaut is amazing now.
KFF is now "wholly within" (presumably 9" but not stated)
There's a stratagem that lets orks keep 20 power level off the board and deepstrike in anywhere on the board more than 9" away from the enemy.
Green tide stratagem, Take a boyz unit under half strength and set it up wholly within 6" of table and more than 9" away from the enemy (Don't know if it also replenishes the unit ála tide of traitors)
Grot shield stratagem, when suffering a wound on a 2+ a grot unit within 3" suffers a wound instead. Grots have to be closer to the firing unit
Ramming speed stratagem, ork vehicles can charge 3d6" and does mortal wounds when it successfully charges
Long uncrontrolled bursts stratagem, add +1 for flyers against other flyers
Looted stratagem, ork infantry units gain +1 Save when a vehicle is destroyed near them.
Get stuck in stratagem, ork infantry can pile in and fight again in CC
Looks a bit too much like it may actually work, on its own,
without faith in Mork and Gork to move it along.
Ugh...this snippet of fluff is my pet hate in 40K. It only appeared in one Ork Codex, back in 3rd Edition IIRC, as one of those 'primary source' documents they were doing at the time, and it was speculation by a Magos Biologis declared a heretic for his borderline-admiration for Orks and their adaptability. I mean, it's broadly consistent with the way Ork psionics works, but it's basically just a joke that for some reason has survived to be repeated uncritically all over the internet. Every wiki treats it like it's some central aspect of Ork fluff when it's never even been mentioned since!
Orks can build stuff that works. Their guns shoot, their buggies drive, their spaceships fly. If they just used their latent psychic energy to power their technology, there'd be no need for Meks' abilities to be encoded into their DNA: they could just nail together bits of any old scrap and just have the Boyz used their mind bullets to kill the enemy.
*Grumble grumble rant rant*
Thank you!
There is a lot of "fluff" for 40K that is just hands down stupid, this is one of those pieces. Now if we could just get rid of the whole "humanity is afraid of technology" aspect.
Looks a bit too much like it may actually work, on its own,
without faith in Mork and Gork to move it along.
Ugh...this snippet of fluff is my pet hate in 40K. It only appeared in one Ork Codex, back in 3rd Edition IIRC, as one of those 'primary source' documents they were doing at the time, and it was speculation by a Magos Biologis declared a heretic for his borderline-admiration for Orks and their adaptability. I mean, it's broadly consistent with the way Ork psionics works, but it's basically just a joke that for some reason has survived to be repeated uncritically all over the internet. Every wiki treats it like it's some central aspect of Ork fluff when it's never even been mentioned since!
Orks can build stuff that works. Their guns shoot, their buggies drive, their spaceships fly. If they just used their latent psychic energy to power their technology, there'd be no need for Meks' abilities to be encoded into their DNA: they could just nail together bits of any old scrap and just have the Boyz used their mind bullets to kill the enemy.
*Grumble grumble rant rant*
Thank you!
There is a lot of "fluff" for 40K that is just hands down stupid, this is one of those pieces. Now if we could just get rid of the whole "humanity is afraid of technology" aspect.
Considering how advanced tech has a tendency of either getting possessed or going skynet, I think the fear of technology is warranted. Removing that element will also get rid of one the obvious dune references, which was one of the sources of inspiration for Warhammer 40k.
The distrust of technology is just part of a 30,000-year fear of the unknown among humanity. Which is fair enough, when the unknown has a nasty habit of growing a tentacle and eating your soul.
Thommy H wrote:Orks can build stuff that works. Their guns shoot, their buggies drive, their spaceships fly. If they just used their latent psychic energy to power their technology, there'd be no need for Meks' abilities to be encoded into their DNA
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Any official Ork model is only the beginning, any mek worth his teef knows that.
CAN I GET AN AMEN!? I have truly found my people. Brothers, may the sounds of your Waaagh drown out the noise.
I find myself in the tricky predicament of wanting it to be Orktober (or at least NoVa weekend) already, but time flies by fast enough as is, and I have a lot of work left to do before armies on parade...
Well, it's unfortunate in my mind since as an almost exclusively vehicle based Evil Sunz player that trait doesn't seem to really have been aimed at improving those types of lists but instead hordes of footsloggers.
Or they had the right intent but in my opinion, poor execution. I'm not saying they're the worst thing in the world but they just feel a bit uninspired.
In the end I'm okay with it since the strats leaked seem super fun and hopefully also useful
PiñaColada wrote: Well, it's unfortunate in my mind since as an almost exclusively vehicle based Evil Sunz player that trait doesn't seem to really have been aimed at improving those types of lists but instead hordes of footsloggers.
Or they had the right intent but in my opinion, poor execution. I'm not saying they're the worst thing in the world but they just feel a bit uninspired.
In the end I'm okay with it since the strats leaked seem super fun and hopefully also useful
Seems incredible for warbikes, stormboyz, new buggies (presumably most of their weaponry will be Assault weaponry and many look to have close combat oriented wargear), Trukks, Battlewagons...not sure what else you're looking for.
Sure, my thought at first glance is "well, I'm glad I have six Killa Kanz because those are gonna be awesome" but I'm also looking at all my other ES units and feeling like they'll be amazing as well.
Also, we haven't seen the stratagems for the subfactions. If evil sunz don't get a stratagem focusing around trukk-mounted units, I'll eat my hat.
PiñaColada wrote: I also posted this in the ork rumours thread but in case anyone hasn't seen it:
I'll make some bullet points later if noone beats me to it. But some interesting stuff in here
The previous leaked clan traits seem to be true unfortunately..
No warboss, painboy or big mek on bike.
New wartrike model.
The squig buggies are actually named rockettrukk squig buggy
Ghaz is apparently amazing, don't know if it's a new model
There's a mekshop that buffs vehicles sort of like the forgeshrine for knights but this one seems good.
Dakkadakkadakka is an army wide rule, 6's generates extra shots.
Apparently the gorkanaut is amazing now.
KFF is now "wholly within" (presumably 9" but not stated)
There's a stratagem that lets orks keep 20 power level off the board and deepstrike in anywhere on the board more than 9" away from the enemy.
Green tide stratagem, Take a boyz unit under half strength and set it up wholly within 6" of table and more than 9" away from the enemy (Don't know if it also replenishes the unit ála tide of traitors)
Grot shield stratagem, when suffering a wound on a 2+ a grot unit within 3" suffers a wound instead. Grots have to be closer to the firing unit
Ramming speed stratagem, ork vehicles can charge 3d6" and does mortal wounds when it successfully charges
Long uncrontrolled bursts stratagem, add +1 for flyers against other flyers
Looted stratagem, ork infantry units gain +1 Save when a vehicle is destroyed near them.
Get stuck in stratagem, ork infantry can pile in and fight again in CC
I think everyone knew the grot shield was goingto become a strategem based off of KT. Keeping a Gork in reserve seems crazy. Any clue if it's 20 PL total or whether it has to be 1 unit?
Looks a bit too much like it may actually work, on its own,
without faith in Mork and Gork to move it along.
Ugh...this snippet of fluff is my pet hate in 40K. It only appeared in one Ork Codex, back in 3rd Edition IIRC, as one of those 'primary source' documents they were doing at the time, and it was speculation by a Magos Biologis declared a heretic for his borderline-admiration for Orks and their adaptability. I mean, it's broadly consistent with the way Ork psionics works, but it's basically just a joke that for some reason has survived to be repeated uncritically all over the internet. Every wiki treats it like it's some central aspect of Ork fluff when it's never even been mentioned since!
Orks can build stuff that works. Their guns shoot, their buggies drive, their spaceships fly. If they just used their latent psychic energy to power their technology, there'd be no need for Meks' abilities to be encoded into their DNA: they could just nail together bits of any old scrap and just have the Boyz used their mind bullets to kill the enemy.
*Grumble grumble rant rant*
Thank you!
There is a lot of "fluff" for 40K that is just hands down stupid, this is one of those pieces. Now if we could just get rid of the whole "humanity is afraid of technology" aspect.
Considering how advanced tech has a tendency of either getting possessed or going skynet, I think the fear of technology is warranted. Removing that element will also get rid of one the obvious dune references, which was one of the sources of inspiration for Warhammer 40k.
Where is their “humanity is afraid of technology” thing coming from? That’s not in the fluff at all.
The Imperium is bound by treaty to outsource all of its industry to the Adeptus Mechanicus and reciprocally bound to adhere to Adeptus Mechanicus’ rules regarding dissemination and use of technology. Specifically, “mess with it and die!”
Or, that’s how it works on Imperial crown worlds, where the Imperium itself is the primary authority.
Governed Worlds, the vast majority of planets in fact, are free to make and sell whatever so long as it is a sanctified design. Which usually amounts to the same thing, but there are worlds (like Necromunda, for example) where there are trillions of people living without even much local oversight, never mind Imperial, where if something doesn’t work, they will freely and happily make something that does.
The only problem is that they don’t have (and won’t be given, again thanks to the ruinous treaty with the Mechanicum) the fundamental education, nor the greater resources required to truly understand why that bit makes the burny light or how to improve it, even empirically, so they are limited in how far they go by the upper limit of the technology around them.
Even then, though, there are still exceptions; House Escher clearly has the equivalent of a doctoral research programme somewhere because they are constantly innovating new chemistry, particularly in the subtle art of poisons, and are very definitively not making an absolutemint out of refining Spook for House Helmawr because that would be illegal. And naughty. Similarly, though it’s difficult to tell if Van Saar really understand what they have but they must also have a high quality education programme too, because operating a broken STC unit can’t be easy - even just knowing what to ask for could be the work of a lifetime.
But yeah, humans (and the Imperium as an institution) don’t fear technology; they jusy have to defer to the Adeptus Mechanicus. And the Adeptus Mechanicus doesn’t ‘fear’ technology either; they have a religious doctrine against unbridled innovation (because incautious invention lets Chaos sneak in, but they’ve forgotten that) and an institutional jealousy of knowledge on a par with a dragon and its gold.
Should we start a new 40k ork rumour thread? While SF and the 40k release are obviously linked, they are two different games and strictly speaking the 40k stuff is off-topic on this thread.
PiñaColada wrote: I also posted this in the ork rumours thread but in case anyone hasn't seen it:
I'll make some bullet points later if noone beats me to it. But some interesting stuff in here
The previous leaked clan traits seem to be true unfortunately..
No warboss, painboy or big mek on bike.
New wartrike model.
The squig buggies are actually named rockettrukk squig buggy
Ghaz is apparently amazing, don't know if it's a new model
There's a mekshop that buffs vehicles sort of like the forgeshrine for knights but this one seems good.
Dakkadakkadakka is an army wide rule, 6's generates extra shots.
Apparently the gorkanaut is amazing now.
KFF is now "wholly within" (presumably 9" but not stated)
There's a stratagem that lets orks keep 20 power level off the board and deepstrike in anywhere on the board more than 9" away from the enemy.
Green tide stratagem, Take a boyz unit under half strength and set it up wholly within 6" of table and more than 9" away from the enemy (Don't know if it also replenishes the unit ála tide of traitors)
Grot shield stratagem, when suffering a wound on a 2+ a grot unit within 3" suffers a wound instead. Grots have to be closer to the firing unit
Ramming speed stratagem, ork vehicles can charge 3d6" and does mortal wounds when it successfully charges
Long uncrontrolled bursts stratagem, add +1 for flyers against other flyers
Looted stratagem, ork infantry units gain +1 Save when a vehicle is destroyed near them.
Get stuck in stratagem, ork infantry can pile in and fight again in CC
I think everyone knew the grot shield was goingto become a strategem based off of KT. Keeping a Gork in reserve seems crazy. Any clue if it's 20 PL total or whether it has to be 1 unit?
The way he phrases it in the video makes it seem like it's just 20 PL total. But he's just reading this from an email he was sent, so maybe he's reading it incorrectly, maybe the guys who sent it was unclear in the text or maybe it's 20 PL in total. It's really difficult to say with any sort of certainty..
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Perfect Organism wrote: Should we start a new 40k ork rumour thread? While SF and the 40k release are obviously linked, they are two different games and strictly speaking the 40k stuff is off-topic on this thread.
I'm not sure if it's needed? Or rather, can't we just rename this to "Orktober" or something like that instead?
Looks a bit too much like it may actually work, on its own,
without faith in Mork and Gork to move it along.
Ugh...this snippet of fluff is my pet hate in 40K. It only appeared in one Ork Codex, back in 3rd Edition IIRC, as one of those 'primary source' documents they were doing at the time, and it was speculation by a Magos Biologis declared a heretic for his borderline-admiration for Orks and their adaptability. I mean, it's broadly consistent with the way Ork psionics works, but it's basically just a joke that for some reason has survived to be repeated uncritically all over the internet. Every wiki treats it like it's some central aspect of Ork fluff when it's never even been mentioned since!
Orks can build stuff that works. Their guns shoot, their buggies drive, their spaceships fly. If they just used their latent psychic energy to power their technology, there'd be no need for Meks' abilities to be encoded into their DNA: they could just nail together bits of any old scrap and just have the Boyz used their mind bullets to kill the enemy.
*Grumble grumble rant rant*
Thank you!
There is a lot of "fluff" for 40K that is just hands down stupid, this is one of those pieces. Now if we could just get rid of the whole "humanity is afraid of technology" aspect.
Mmm, yes, and why not also make the Imperium a secular democracy with equal rights for mutants(or "the differently bodied" as they will now be known) as well
The rumor is this case was only about units/ stats, not models. Those units already have stats and apparently didn’t change enough to warrant a mention, so this source wouldn’t know if new models were involved.
These people (the leakers) were playtesters and as such wouldn't know. That's why they have no idea if Ghaz is a new model either. They could only leak the new buggies since those datasheets didn't exist earlier..
These people (the leakers) were playtesters and as such wouldn't know. That's why they have no idea if Ghaz is a new model either. They could only leak the new buggies since those datasheets didn't exist earlier..
Honestly if a unit got a new kit, the playtesters would be able to tell from the datasheet, as it would include new options and unique weapons.
I think everyone knew the grot shield was goingto become a strategem based off of KT. Keeping a Gork in reserve seems crazy. Any clue if it's 20 PL total or whether it has to be 1 unit?
It seems crazy until you realize it\s expensive primarily h2h model that will come into useful position on turn 3, has 50-50 of making charge and if not and survives does something useful in T3 at which point games are generally already decided. Not sold on that idea. Deep strikes work in 8th mainly for shooty units.
I think everyone knew the grot shield was goingto become a strategem based off of KT. Keeping a Gork in reserve seems crazy. Any clue if it's 20 PL total or whether it has to be 1 unit?
It seems crazy until you realize it\s expensive primarily h2h model that will come into useful position on turn 3, has 50-50 of making charge and if not and survives does something useful in T3 at which point games are generally already decided. Not sold on that idea. Deep strikes work in 8th mainly for shooty units.
Well with the telyport stratagem you could do it T2, with an 8 inch charge (evil suns), rerolling for ere we go, and if you want making it a 3D6 charge with the ramming speed stratagem. Granted thats a big investment so it had better be a juciy target, but will at least be incredibly disruptive.
Not Warboss on warbike!? Then I'll never get to paint my Wazdakka!? They even have a paint named after him!
They'd still exist in the index, just not in the codex. They just won't get updated rules. (as per other codexes with removed items that exist in the index)
Not Warboss on warbike!? Then I'll never get to paint my Wazdakka!? They even have a paint named after him!
They'd still exist in the index, just not in the codex. They just won't get updated rules. (as per other codexes with removed items that exist in the index)
Yes, you'd still be able to use them. But surely this means that whenever 9th rolls around they'll actually be gone? It's sad but I've stated previously that the old HQ on warbikes might simply get ported to wartrikes. Let's hope
Not Warboss on warbike!? Then I'll never get to paint my Wazdakka!? They even have a paint named after him!
They'd still exist in the index, just not in the codex. They just won't get updated rules. (as per other codexes with removed items that exist in the index)
Yes, you'd still be able to use them. But surely this means that whenever 9th rolls around they'll actually be gone? It's sad but I've stated previously that the old HQ on warbikes might simply get ported to wartrikes. Let's hope
stuff goes in and out of existence with various editions. We got the shokk attack gun back after it was gone for more than a decade. gak, look at genestealer cults, I would have bet $100 they would never return to the game. A biker boss wouldn't be hard to see returning.
Nightlord1987 wrote: Dakka Dakka Dakka army wide seems crazy. As in free, and not a Stratagem?
I thought that too, but if its shots and not hits its not really that crazy. 1/6 chance to get a free shot, which then has a 1/3 chance of hitting aint game breaking. My main concern is that we lose (or get nerfed) in one of our existing army wide special rules to make up for it (ere we go/mob rule). Hearing this plus the lack of mob rule in KT worries me a bit
These people (the leakers) were playtesters and as such wouldn't know. That's why they have no idea if Ghaz is a new model either. They could only leak the new buggies since those datasheets didn't exist earlier..
Honestly if a unit got a new kit, the playtesters would be able to tell from the datasheet, as it would include new options and unique weapons.
Not if the options stay the same - like for Khârn or Eldrad etcetera.
Nightlord1987 wrote: Dakka Dakka Dakka army wide seems crazy. As in free, and not a Stratagem?
According to the rumour (which now seems pretty solid) yeah. But it's only giving a small boost to our generally underwhelming shooting and becomes near useless as soon as to-hit penalties come into play, which is apparently most competitive games now. Just seems to make the issues with BS 5+ worse, since we will be charged for it but may not really get to use it depending on what traits the enemy has.
Not Warboss on warbike!? Then I'll never get to paint my Wazdakka!? They even have a paint named after him!
They'd still exist in the index, just not in the codex. They just won't get updated rules. (as per other codexes with removed items that exist in the index)
Yes, you'd still be able to use them. But surely this means that whenever 9th rolls around they'll actually be gone? It's sad but I've stated previously that the old HQ on warbikes might simply get ported to wartrikes. Let's hope
stuff goes in and out of existence with various editions. We got the shokk attack gun back after it was gone for more than a decade. gak, look at genestealer cults, I would have bet $100 they would never return to the game. A biker boss wouldn't be hard to see returning.
True. But it looks like orks are always on the wrong end of the stick when it comes to rules and army list...
- "Megatrakk Skrap-jet" - Confirmed to be a character-toting trike, the one shown in the background of the Buggy video
- "Squig Buggy" (possibly the "Rockettrukk Squig Buggy") is mentioned as another vehicle we haven't seen (thanks to Triszin and PiñaColada for correcting this)
- Mek Shop fortification, gives nearby shooting units with a random number of shots the maximum number of shots
- "Dakka Dakka" Rule - Rolls of 6 in the shooting phase generate extra shots
Clan Rules (pretty much repeats what Valrak's already reported):
Goffs - Rolls of 6 to hit in close combat generate further attacks
Bad Moons - Re-roll 1's to hit
Evil Sunz - +1 to Movement, as well as +1 to Advances and Charges
Deathskulls - 6+ invulnerable save, units may also re-roll one to-hit, to-wound and damage roll for shooting
Blood Axes - May Advance and Charge after Falling Back, also count as in Cover while in the open
Snakebites - 6+ rolls to ignore wounds, like Disgustingly Resilient
Freebooters - Get +1 to hit if another nearby friendly model destroys an enemy (thanks to Sawtooth for pointing out the original absence of this in the post)
Strategems:
Teleport - Lets the Ork player keep 20PL of models off the board, teleport in within 9" of the enemy on Turn 1 - no mention of how this works with the new Deep Strike restrictions in the Big FAQ Green Tide - Take an understrength Boyz unit, set them up, full-strength, within 6" of a board edge and 9" from an enemy unit
Grot Shield - When an Ork unit near a unit of Grots is hit in the shooting phase, roll a 2+, Grots take the shot instead
Ramming Speed - Vehicle charges 3d6", does mortal wounds when it successfully charges - combine this with some of the new Buggies (or a Gorkanaut), and hoo boy
Looted - Ork infantry unit gains +1 to armor save when a vehicle is destroyed near them
Long, Uncontrolled Bursts - Add +1 to hit for a flying unit that shoot at other flyers
Get Stuck In - Ork unit may pile in and fight again
These all sound fun enough, but I'm worried that they don't do much/anything for Orks problems with shooting vs. all the -1s in the game.
PiñaColada wrote: Well, it's unfortunate in my mind since as an almost exclusively vehicle based Evil Sunz player that trait doesn't seem to really have been aimed at improving those types of lists but instead hordes of footsloggers.
Or they had the right intent but in my opinion, poor execution. I'm not saying they're the worst thing in the world but they just feel a bit uninspired.
In the end I'm okay with it since the strats leaked seem super fun and hopefully also useful
Considering most Ork weapons are assault and you also get to ignore the penalty for firing assault weapons after advancing it is actually amazing. Even for vehicles, who basically gain 2" of movement and can fire all their assault weapons at full BS instead of -1.
For teleport strategem pretty clear the deep strike restriction which was invented AFTER codex was done basically would have no difference. So teleport will logically enough work just like others.
tneva82 wrote: For teleport strategem pretty clear the deep strike restriction which was invented AFTER codex was done basically would have no difference. So teleport will logically enough work just like others.
who said it wouldn't. You have to wait until turn 2 just like anything else coming in from reserves, unless you deploy in your own deployment zone.
tneva82 wrote: For teleport strategem pretty clear the deep strike restriction which was invented AFTER codex was done basically would have no difference. So teleport will logically enough work just like others.
who said it wouldn't. You have to wait until turn 2 just like anything else coming in from reserves, unless you deploy in your own deployment zone.
It was related to this:
Teleport - Lets the Ork player keep 20PL of models off the board, teleport in within 9" of the enemy on Turn 1 - no mention of how this works with the new Deep Strike restrictions in the Big FAQ
If (as I fear now) it is true. I am out plain and simple.
I don't care about rules or stratagems if I can't use the damn models.
These weapons have been the core of the ork artillery since what 2d edition?
Sorry to be negative even before the codex is out, but once again orks seems
to get screwed with the new book.
If the release confirm this, orks will be modelling only for me, period.
3rd Edition. And even then, they were basically just for people to represent their old wacky 2nd Edition artillery pieces - Traktor Kannons, Smasha Guns, Pulsa Rokkits, Squig Lobbas, etc. - you know, the stuff that's mostly now covered by Mek Guns...
Big Guns have never been more than an afterthought. They aren't the core of anything.
- Mek Shop fortification, gives nearby shooting units with a random number of shots the maximum number of shots
Now this is interesting - Ork terrain kit? Good for Lootas, I guess.
Depending on price and any negative sides(everybody was drooling about similar ability for knights before full rules were leaked...) this could be sick for lootas and...KMK's. If fit 18 of those firing 6 shots per turn? Would be sick.
Either there has to be limitations or it's very pricey.
- "Megatrakk Skrap-jet" - Confirmed to be a character-toting trike, the one shown in the background of the Buggy video
- "Squig Buggy" (possibly the "Rockettrukk Squig Buggy") is mentioned as another vehicle we haven't seen (thanks to Triszin and PiñaColada for correcting this)
- Mek Shop fortification, gives nearby shooting units with a random number of shots the maximum number of shots
- "Dakka Dakka" Rule - Rolls of 6 in the shooting phase generate extra shots
Clan Rules (pretty much repeats what Valrak's already reported):
Goffs - Rolls of 6 to hit in close combat generate further attacks
Bad Moons - Re-roll 1's to hit
Evil Sunz - +1 to Movement, as well as +1 to Advances and Charges
Deathskulls - 6+ invulnerable save, units may also re-roll one to-hit, to-wound and damage roll for shooting
Blood Axes - May Advance and Charge after Falling Back, also count as in Cover while in the open
Snakebites - 6+ rolls to ignore wounds, like Disgustingly Resilient
Freebooters - Get +1 to hit if another nearby friendly model destroys an enemy (thanks to Sawtooth for pointing out the original absence of this in the post)
Strategems:
Teleport - Lets the Ork player keep 20PL of models off the board, teleport in within 9" of the enemy on Turn 1 - no mention of how this works with the new Deep Strike restrictions in the Big FAQ Green Tide - Take an understrength Boyz unit, set them up, full-strength, within 6" of a board edge and 9" from an enemy unit
Grot Shield - When an Ork unit near a unit of Grots is hit in the shooting phase, roll a 2+, Grots take the shot instead
Ramming Speed - Vehicle charges 3d6", does mortal wounds when it successfully charges - combine this with some of the new Buggies (or a Gorkanaut), and hoo boy
Looted - Ork infantry unit gains +1 to armor save when a vehicle is destroyed near them
Long, Uncontrolled Bursts - Add +1 to hit for a flying unit that shoot at other flyers
Get Stuck In - Ork unit may pile in and fight again
These all sound fun enough, but I'm worried that they don't do much/anything for Orks problems with shooting vs. all the -1s in the game.
Interestingly the Evil Suns clan rules here dont mention the no BS penalties from advancing and fireing assault weapons. I wonder if they just missed that piece or if thats a change from other rumors we have seen.
Hopefully Big Gunz are gone, they're fething awful models and don't really have a place in the game anymore.
I don't hope for that, though they really need new models. I'm sure GW knows this, and so may remove them for that reason, making them battlewagon only. Still I would welcome their return as artillery pieces as they are really useful in the game, way better than the not so good (too random) mek gunz we got last time.
Or they may stay, time will tell. I have plenty of them and still use them time to time.
To quote myself it was "An Actual Englishman" that said it first!
If (as I fear now) it is true. I am out plain and simple.
I don't care about rules or stratagems if I can't use the damn models.
These weapons have been the core of the ork artillery since what 2d edition?
Sorry to be negative even before the codex is out, but once again orks seems
to get screwed with the new book.
If the release confirm this, orks will be modelling only for me, period.
3rd Edition. And even then, they were basically just for people to represent their old wacky 2nd Edition artillery pieces - Traktor Kannons, Smasha Guns, Pulsa Rokkits, Squig Lobbas, etc. - you know, the stuff that's mostly now covered by Mek Guns...
Big Guns have never been more than an afterthought. They aren't the core of anything.
3rd Edition indeed. My bad.
You may feel that
"Big Guns have never been more than an afterthought. They aren't the core of anything."
but
I still have 24 (soon useless if not friendly games) pieces of metal which beg to differ.
And don't even get me started about the (already axed for most of them) Forgeworld model
which are fitted with the resin equivalent of these gunz (gunwagonz, battle forteresses, squiggoths big or even bigger etc...)
These gunz have been the ork artillery fo rmore years than the plastic kits.
I do not believe I would have been that hard to keep them an entry as in the last codex.
If (as I fear now) it is true. I am out plain and simple.
I don't care about rules or stratagems if I can't use the damn models.
These weapons have been the core of the ork artillery since what 2d edition?
Sorry to be negative even before the codex is out, but once again orks seems
to get screwed with the new book.
If the release confirm this, orks will be modelling only for me, period.
3rd Edition. And even then, they were basically just for people to represent their old wacky 2nd Edition artillery pieces - Traktor Kannons, Smasha Guns, Pulsa Rokkits, Squig Lobbas, etc. - you know, the stuff that's mostly now covered by Mek Guns...
Big Guns have never been more than an afterthought. They aren't the core of anything.
3rd Edition indeed. My bad.
You may feel that
"Big Guns have never been more than an afterthought. They aren't the core of anything."
but
I still have 24 (soon useless if not friendly games) pieces of metal which beg to differ.
And don't even get me started about the (already axed for most of them) Forgeworld model
which are fitted with the resin equivalent of these gunz (gunwagonz, battle forteresses, squiggoths big or even bigger etc...)
These gunz have been the ork artillery for rmore years than the plastic kits.
I do not believe I would have been that hard to keep them an entry as in the last codex.
I miss the old pulsa rokkits. Seems like they could come back easily enough; plenty of effects mess with movement and dropping portable dangerous terrain on their assault unit sounds pretty Orky to me…
i swear to god if bikerboss/painboy goes away....
They are REQUIRED to run a biker army. Not only on a power level since regular bikers arent crazy strong just decent but also on a logic level - what warband of speed freaks is not led by a bigger speedier freak on a bigger bike?
If (as I fear now) it is true. I am out plain and simple.
I don't care about rules or stratagems if I can't use the damn models.
These weapons have been the core of the ork artillery since what 2d edition?
Sorry to be negative even before the codex is out, but once again orks seems
to get screwed with the new book.
If the release confirm this, orks will be modelling only for me, period.
3rd Edition. And even then, they were basically just for people to represent their old wacky 2nd Edition artillery pieces - Traktor Kannons, Smasha Guns, Pulsa Rokkits, Squig Lobbas, etc. - you know, the stuff that's mostly now covered by Mek Guns...
Big Guns have never been more than an afterthought. They aren't the core of anything.
3rd Edition indeed. My bad.
You may feel that
"Big Guns have never been more than an afterthought. They aren't the core of anything."
but
I still have 24 (soon useless if not friendly games) pieces of metal which beg to differ.
And don't even get me started about the (already axed for most of them) Forgeworld model
which are fitted with the resin equivalent of these gunz (gunwagonz, battle forteresses, squiggoths big or even bigger etc...)
These gunz have been the ork artillery fo rmore years than the plastic kits.
I do not believe I would have been that hard to keep them an entry as in the last codex.
Again, fell free to think the other way.
You can still use the index rules for the cannons until at least 9th drops, and it doesn’t have to be in “friendly games only”. There’s plenty of other factions who have models that the index rules apply to. GW itself has said if there isn’t codex rules, use the index rules.
Vineheart01 wrote: i swear to god if bikerboss/painboy goes away....
They are REQUIRED to run a biker army. Not only on a power level since regular bikers arent crazy strong just decent but also on a logic level - what warband of speed freaks is not led by a bigger speedier freak on a bigger bike?
100% but I'm hoping the Wartrike might fulfill the same purpose?
lootas on a mekshop firing 45 shots a turn with some grots in front of them taking return fire on a 2+
i knew i kept these two failing units around in my army for what 15-20 years...
also whist its great and keeping with the 8th ed vibe... re-rollin one's and extra dice on 6's and 6 fnp.... anyone who plays orks will know this is gonna slow play down a fair bit, not great for the tourney scene but hey ho i'm too old these days to break my back taking my orks to a torney anyway
Vineheart01 wrote: i swear to god if bikerboss/painboy goes away....
They are REQUIRED to run a biker army. Not only on a power level since regular bikers arent crazy strong just decent but also on a logic level - what warband of speed freaks is not led by a bigger speedier freak on a bigger bike?
100% but I'm hoping the Wartrike might fulfill the same purpose?
But the wartrike seems to be a totally different role.
Not to mention not being able to use my warboss on bike conversion i did like 7 years ago that i still think looks badass (despite my painting skills being immensely inferior before now) would really urk me.
If Bad Moons was reroll ones in shooting AND cc, that would be pretty damn Boss.
Ive been stuck on what Clan to paint since they all look good on Orkz.
Seems like Evil Suns>Blood Axe>Snake Bite>Goff>Death Skulls>FreeBootaz>Bad Moons
I was planning Death skull Boyz and lootaz, Bad Moons shootaz and armor.
Might have to switch to Death Skulls lootaz and armor, and Evil Suns for boyz.
Of course, we should also see some Clan specific Stratagems that can make the difference.
Nightlord1987 wrote: Dakka Dakka Dakka army wide seems crazy. As in free, and not a Stratagem?
I thought that too, but if its shots and not hits its not really that crazy. 1/6 chance to get a free shot, which then has a 1/3 chance of hitting aint game breaking. My main concern is that we lose (or get nerfed) in one of our existing army wide special rules to make up for it (ere we go/mob rule). Hearing this plus the lack of mob rule in KT worries me a bit
Dakka dakka could be one of those detachment rules when battleforged, like the custodes plus 1 to invulnerable saves. I'm also hoping a natural sixes always hit rule is included in the chapter approved 2018.
I do not believe I would have been that hard to keep them an entry as in the last codex.
Basically would have required complete change of direction from GW.
a) no model, no entry in codex
b) but there are models! Well look at the GW webstore. See them? No? They were finecast. GW wants to get rid of non-plastic ASAP. And they had been plastified already...
c) ...by mek guns. They are basically GW's version of making plastic version of big guns. However GW doesn't do just plastic versions or updates. If they do kit it's going to be new unit with new rules old models can't be used as count as. Look at mek guns and new buggies. They call them updated buggy but in reality are new units with new rules that old models can't even be used to represent.
This was fairly likely scenario from the moment mek guns were released. Big guns were too generic and easy to get from 3rd party. So being relegated to being used from index was fairly likely scenario always.
That's why I don't see us ever getting plastic Kommandos/Tankbustas.
[EDIT]: Also, one thing to keep in mind, is that Kannons, Lobbaz and Zzapp guns are from the 'boring brown' period of the Orks, in that post-Gorkamorka 3rd Edition 40K era where orks were just Generic Goffs with nothing to make them interesting.
Consider they went from having Traktor Cannons, Splatter Cannons, Smasha Gunz, Squig catapults, Shokk Attack Gunz and Pulsa Rokkits to generic cannon, generic mortar, slightly temperamental lascannon. Such excitement. Much flavour. Wow.
I took a while for the colour of the Orks to brighten up, and for new models to revitalise the line.
I think they will come BUT they might not be kommando/tankbustas as we know them...Like upgraded "big guns" and upgraded "buggies".
In general, we've not seen a whole lot of "new" with book launches. Production really does seem to be their limiting factor at the moment. Hopefully that will be changing soon--I want to see some new Kommandos and Tankbustas(although I wouldn't be shocked to see these two in a dual build kit!).
GW is in a really weird spot right now with ork models. On one hand we have tons of old metal/finecast models which are super old, and on the other you have GW not wanting metal and finecast, but also cant just cut all those units because thats like half the codex
Billagio wrote: GW is in a really weird spot right now with ork models. On one hand we have tons of old metal/finecast models which are super old, and on the other you have GW not wanting metal and finecast, but also cant just cut all those units because thats like half the codex
They're in this situation with a lot of armies in AoS as well, it looks like we'll see a few new things here and there to add some 'wow' or 'omg i need these!'.
Billagio wrote: GW is in a really weird spot right now with ork models. On one hand we have tons of old metal/finecast models which are super old, and on the other you have GW not wanting metal and finecast, but also cant just cut all those units because thats like half the codex
Which is why we have them for a while but not forever. But GW doesn't release tons of new kits at once even if sculpts were done neccessarily. Look at eldar jetbikes that waited DECADE for their slot to come in. Tank busta replacement in plastic could be sculpted and done and just wait for suitable slot for release for all we know.
About only way I can see plastic tank bustas/kommandos that actually work as current tank busta/kommando is with dual with not together but with NEW unit. So you would have box of plastic tank bustas or alternative set up of completely new unit. Ditto for kommandos. Ala firewarriors who got new unit into kit when they were redone.
About only way I can see plastic tank bustas/kommandos that actually work as current tank busta/kommando is with dual with not together but with NEW unit. So you would have box of plastic tank bustas or alternative set up of completely new unit. Ditto for kommandos. Ala firewarriors who got new unit into kit when they were redone.
But thousand sons and plague marines didn't get new units in their kits, just a couple new wargear options. Tank bustas could easily be a kit with rokkits, rokkits pistols, tank hammera, kombi rokkits, and a new option like heavy rokkits or melta gun thing.
About only way I can see plastic tank bustas/kommandos that actually work as current tank busta/kommando is with dual with not together but with NEW unit. So you would have box of plastic tank bustas or alternative set up of completely new unit. Ditto for kommandos. Ala firewarriors who got new unit into kit when they were redone.
But thousand sons and plague marines didn't get new units in their kits, just a couple new wargear options. Tank bustas could easily be a kit with rokkits, rokkits pistols, tank hammera, kombi rokkits, and a new option like heavy rokkits or melta gun thing.
True. But that was core unit for entire new faction which got new units to go with it ensuring GW gets new units to release. You anticipiating new faction with tank bustas/kommandos as core?-)
Also those did get new options like flamer weapon for ts. So as i said dual kit for unit and you could see them
Billagio wrote: GW is in a really weird spot right now with ork models. On one hand we have tons of old metal/finecast models which are super old, and on the other you have GW not wanting metal and finecast, but also cant just cut all those units because thats like half the codex
Which is why we have them for a while but not forever. But GW doesn't release tons of new kits at once even if sculpts were done neccessarily. Look at eldar jetbikes that waited DECADE for their slot to come in. Tank busta replacement in plastic could be sculpted and done and just wait for suitable slot for release for all we know.
About only way I can see plastic tank bustas/kommandos that actually work as current tank busta/kommando is with dual with not together but with NEW unit. So you would have box of plastic tank bustas or alternative set up of completely new unit. Ditto for kommandos. Ala firewarriors who got new unit into kit when they were redone.
H.B.M.C. wrote: That's why I don't see us ever getting plastic Kommandos/Tankbustas.
[EDIT]: Also, one thing to keep in mind, is that Kannons, Lobbaz and Zzapp guns are from the 'boring brown' period of the Orks, in that post-Gorkamorka 3rd Edition 40K era where orks were just Generic Goffs with nothing to make them interesting.
Consider they went from having Traktor Cannons, Splatter Cannons, Smasha Gunz, Squig catapults, Shokk Attack Gunz and Pulsa Rokkits to generic cannon, generic mortar, slightly temperamental lascannon. Such excitement. Much flavour. Wow.
I took a while for the colour of the Orks to brighten up, and for new models to revitalise the line.
I disagree with Big Gunz being boring. I do like Mek Gunz both in terms of the models and the crazy high tech that the orks are capable of. That said, I think orks pounding the enemy to dust under an unrelenting hail of high explosive shells to be really cool.
In my mind getting rid of Big Gunz because Mek Gunz are supposedly more flavorful would be like getting rid of sluggas and shootas because Kustom Mega weapons are more flavorful. I do think that Kustom Mega weapons are neat, but I prefer most of my orks to hose down the enemy with a fusilade of solid slugs from crude but brutally functional automatic weapons.
Yeah, I can see the point about third party manufacturers being able to make their own kannons and lobbas and it being hard for GW to sure them. I can understand that motivation for axing them, but just because I can understand it doesn't mean I have to like it at all from a consumer's perspective.
Also, it's funny that they actually had more flavorful rules in the 3rd Edition codex than in later codexes. They would often kill their own crew, and the zzap gun was more some kind of electric arc weapon than a lascannon (it auto-hit). The kannon and zzap guns were significantly more powerful weapons, but more fragile IIRC (I think the lobba was more or less the same in terms of power).
While I agree that overall early 3rd when the Ork codex came out things were pretty bland, but there were several units in that book (including Big Gunz, Burna Boyz and Warbikes) that ended up losing some flavor in later codexes, at least as far as rules go.
If they don't produce plastic versions sooner or later they are gone I'm affraid :(
BTW another reason I doubt we get tank busta/kommando dual kit. The kits are very different to each other. Not much parts really they share so unless they DOWNGRADE character of models by doing something like basically current boy+rokkit=tank busta, current boy+slugga&choppa+skarf head=kommando they wouldn't really work without giving kit that does BOTH. They might share maybe legs but GW has been moving away a lot from separate leg+torso in recent kits.
So we would likely end up much more generic less characterful kits that might not even be that much cheaper. Generally complains I hear are price and resin. Looks I don't hear much complains. Would existing ork players be rushing in to replace already owned models with plastic versions that look more generic and might not even be cheaper? I don't think so...Also GW would have to figure use for squigs for kommandos as well.
That's why I think if we get plastic versions it's 2 dual kits with alternative loadout for both. That way existing ork players would be buying the kit and not just new players. Also would allow them to keep tank bustas and kommandos visually different apart from just weapons.
Also means quite a long time to wait likely since it doesn't seem they come this time...
Okay, so my dumb brain is not to be trusted when it comes to calculating this stuff. But would the Bad Moons trait be somewhat worth it if the dakkadakkadakka rule is actually this:
During the shooting phase unmodified hit rolls of 6 always hit and in addition unmodified hit rolls of 6 causes 2 hits instead of 1?
I sort of doubt it myself although I hope that this is actually what the dakkadakkadakka rule is now. I understand that it's unlikely as it wasn't mentioned as being changed in the video but it's possible that either Kirioth didnn't know how it worked previously or that he simply read the name and assumed it was the same.
Hopefully Big Gunz are gone, they're fething awful models and don't really have a place in the game anymore.
I don't hope for that, though they really need new models. I'm sure GW knows this, and so may remove them for that reason, making them battlewagon only. Still I would welcome their return as artillery pieces as they are really useful in the game, way better than the not so good (too random) mek gunz we got last time.
Or they may stay, time will tell. I have plenty of them and still use them time to time.
To quote myself it was "An Actual Englishman" that said it first!
Pedant.
He said they were hopefully gone. You said "Orks are getting the following removed". Very different statement and yours was baseless fear mongering.
Get rid of the generic stuff. Hangovers from third ed and not wanted.
alos dont forget the defkopta. the only way we can see them in the codex is if they FINALLY take the aobr snap build defkopta into its own box. they can do it, they have done kits for easy fit kits recently (of course they are all new models from dethguard and primaris, but they can still make it, proved by the battle for vedros sets).
i have very fond memories of dekoptas, they were very useful in 7th for me and i had quite a few wins with combining them with zagstruk stormboy formation for msu deep strike shenanigans (very few people i fought knew how to deal with near null deployment orks,got me a few wins at a tourny, 7th sucked, but i had good memories).
Problem with deth koptas is that they are currently in plastic ONLY in that vedros sets which is complete sprue with OTHER stuff as well. So ATM they dont' have mould for just deth kopta. Ergo to make plastic deth kopta release they would have to do completely new mould which costs up quite a bit.
Thus I would say it's nearly 100% sure they won't do just the original plastic kit as separate sale. Nope. Ain't going to happen. If they release plastic deth kopta it will be new kit with possibly updated look and certainly more options and kit layout. GW won't spend money for new mould JUST to transfer the original model as is into it's own mould.
tneva82 wrote: Problem with deth koptas is that they are currently in plastic ONLY in that vedros sets which is complete sprue with OTHER stuff as well. So ATM they dont' have mould for just deth kopta. Ergo to make plastic deth kopta release they would have to do completely new mould which costs up quite a bit.
Thus I would say it's nearly 100% sure they won't do just the original plastic kit as separate sale. Nope. Ain't going to happen. If they release plastic deth kopta it will be new kit with possibly updated look and certainly more options and kit layout. GW won't spend money for new mould JUST to transfer the original model as is into it's own mould.
The Deffkoptas got the new Big Bomm upgrade in the index, which is not reflected on the models. The can also have either Big Shootas or a KMB instead of the Rokkits (also not on the models). To me, this all definitely indicates a proper new multipart kit - I think we should just wait and see.
tneva82 wrote: Problem with deth koptas is that they are currently in plastic ONLY in that vedros sets which is complete sprue with OTHER stuff as well. So ATM they dont' have mould for just deth kopta. Ergo to make plastic deth kopta release they would have to do completely new mould which costs up quite a bit.
Thus I would say it's nearly 100% sure they won't do just the original plastic kit as separate sale. Nope. Ain't going to happen. If they release plastic deth kopta it will be new kit with possibly updated look and certainly more options and kit layout. GW won't spend money for new mould JUST to transfer the original model as is into it's own mould.
The Deffkoptas got the new Big Bomm upgrade in the index, which is not reflected on the models. The can also have either Big Shootas or a KMB instead of the Rokkits (also not on the models). To me, this all definitely indicates a proper new multipart kit - I think we should just wait and see.
those were all things it could get in the 7th codex as well. not really an indicator of a new kit if they just copied the same wargear from 7th...just like our characters on bikes, little changed between 7th and the index.
Huh, you're right - I thought at least the Big Bomm was new in the index, but that was wrong - it was the rule of it with the mortal wounds that was new, not the wargear itself.
Oguhmek wrote: Huh, you're right - I thought at least the Big Bomm was new in the index, but that was wrong - it was the rule of it with the mortal wounds that was new, not the wargear itself.
I stand corrected.
That's slightly disappointing.
i know. i loved the defkopta. i had fun conversions of the ones with buzzsaws and acted like nobs in the squad of normal koptas (conversion used small zeon suit models and they looked like looted tau suits into some nasty cyborks). if the defkopta is left in the index and gets no good price decreases in chapter approved then ill just magnetize 2 defkoptas on a flyer base and run it as counts as a warkopta (or maybe a dakkajet) for friendly games.
Well good thing is they still sell the kit so should stay in codex though how much improvement it gets.
All I'm saying is that don't expect just old kit in own kit. If it comes in plastic it's going to be whole new kit and likely improved one with more options. So it would be BETTER than having current kit on it's own and wouldnt' even cost much more to GW either way(as the mould is where cost comes from which they would have to produce anyway)
tneva82 wrote: Problem with deth koptas is that they are currently in plastic ONLY in that vedros sets which is complete sprue with OTHER stuff as well. So ATM they dont' have mould for just deth kopta. Ergo to make plastic deth kopta release they would have to do completely new mould which costs up quite a bit.
Before the Knights codex I would have said the same. But they really did end up making a new sprue of copy/pasted bits from various terrain kits for the Forge Shrine, didn't they?
AFAIK the forge shrine mostly consists of sprues that are also used for the mechanicum terrain. Our local knights player just build the round terrain piece from it instead of the shrine of failure.
I think if they could have done that with the AOBR koptas, they already would have.
The only thing we have seen from that area is sprues with bits removed. I don't remember the AOBR sprues well, but IIRC the koptas were all over the place, mixed with both nob and boyz sparts.
And shrine is completely new unit that didn't exist(albeit rules so bad nobody wants to field...) so in case of deth kopta's that would be like taking bits of deth kopta, bits of something else, combine and have some other non-deth kopta unit instead. Not 100% comparable.
Now albeit it's possible they could do that but seeing for about same price they could redesign kit and add new options and thus sell new kit for existing ork players as well as new I have hard time imagining GW doing just new mould of existing kit with no changes.
I have hundreds of extra arms and heads and torsos - I wish they'd make a box of legs - running, kneeling, jumping, sneaking etc. That would be useful.
If you read the whole thread, big gunz, warboss/big mek/painboy/nobz on bike as well as kommandos/tankbusters are absolutely wanted,
People have these in their armies and so obviously don't want to see them go.
That pretty sums it up for me.
I have these, plenty of them, and no new kit or rule will justify them being removed, period.
Keep them, and I welcome any new kit or rule.
That's simple.
I knew he did the Warboss, so I could've guessed.
