Check out the new datasheets in better resolution. And also warbikers!
Edit: Don't have my index with me, but they seem pretty similar/the same right?
Edit 2: The difference seems to be that the normal non-nob bikers "may" take a slugga and/or choppa whereas they just had that in the index. I wonder if that means our boyz are still 6ppm and it's the weapons that now cost 1 point each?
Based on that data sheet having no changes and the price being 4 power level for 3 bikes, I'm not super optimistic for bikes. Sounds like they still cost close to 26 points per bikr with no gain. I dont think any amount of stratagem opportunities will make ork bikers worth that many points.
Ah, "monopose", all the fun of "easy to build" but none of the sweet, sweet pricing The biggest bummer besides the fact that the buggies have no options. Despite the sprues looking thrice as dense as the bike sprues.
The terrain is pretty boss, though, love the halved skrapjet included. If only the other half was partially there somewhere, I bet someone would've had the thing up an running in five minutes after release
PiñaColada wrote: The difference seems to be that the normal non-nob bikers "may" take a slugga and/or choppa whereas they just had that in the index. I wonder if that means our boyz are still 6ppm and it's the weapons that now cost 1 point each?
I actually hope that they do have a price for every weapon, since that could possibly indicate that they are paving the ground for a custom vehicle design system. Something like 4 points for a base boy, 2 for a choppa, 1 for a slugga, 2 or 3 for a shoota? Although that raises the possibility of a vehicle just coated in sluggas for like 30 points, so maybe 2 points per slugga would be more reasonable (but the choppa is clearly a better option for a sidearm on a flash git kaptin for example... maybe the whole thing is harder to balance than I thought).
Also, 'Nob Weapons List' seems to allow two choppas for 2 bonus attacks, but doesn't include kustom shootas or kombi-weapons (sad if that is also the case for boss nobz in boyz units, nobz on warbikes, etc.)
PiñaColada wrote: The difference seems to be that the normal non-nob bikers "may" take a slugga and/or choppa whereas they just had that in the index. I wonder if that means our boyz are still 6ppm and it's the weapons that now cost 1 point each?
I actually hope that they do have a price for every weapon, since that could possibly indicate that they are paving the ground for a custom vehicle design system. Something like 4 points for a base boy, 2 for a choppa, 1 for a slugga, 2 or 3 for a shoota? Although that raises the possibility of a vehicle just coated in sluggas for like 30 points, so maybe 2 points per slugga would be more reasonable (but the choppa is clearly a better option for a sidearm on a flash git kaptin for example... maybe the whole thing is harder to balance than I thought).
Also, 'Nob Weapons List' seems to allow two choppas for 2 bonus attacks, but doesn't include kustom shootas or kombi-weapons (sad if that is also the case for boss nobz in boyz units, nobz on warbikes, etc.)
I suspect its just the datasheets from speed freaks and not the codex.
ManTube wrote: Based on that data sheet having no changes and the price being 4 power level for 3 bikes, I'm not super optimistic for bikes. Sounds like they still cost close to 26 points per bikr with no gain. I dont think any amount of stratagem opportunities will make ork bikers worth that many points.
That suggests a minimum price of 22 points per biker plus 12 points extra for the nob. Hopefully the nob price is calculated with his stupid option of two power klaws as the maximum cost. If we're really lucky, the warbikers are paying for the option of taking choppas and sluggas, so the actual cost per model might be as low as 21 points.
EDIT: I believe that is still way too much for warbikers. Even as objective-grabbers, they seem to be inferior to stormboyz and trukks (if trukks drop below 70, as seems likely from them being power 3).
I like the new buggies and terrain pieces. I'm slightly saddened that we only get the two buggies, mostly because I've already got enough bikes. Can always use more, I guess.
At $150(?) USD, Speed Freeks is going to be a hard pass for me. I already have 9 bikes and don't want more, and while I do love the buggies, I'm damn sure not paying $75 each for them, functionally.
I think it's impossible that individual sprues won't be up pretty soon though, the way that Kill Team Commanders are. If the Buggies are $25ish I will definitely get a few.
That is one expensive box. I'll find a way to get the terrain separately.
Those buggies are on a single sprue with zero options (wouldn't want them evil 3rd parties making bitz now, would we?). They're going to price them as much as a Death Guard Plague Mortar thingy (whatever it's obnoxious Adjective Nounverb name is... I can't remember) aren't they?
It's nice that previews of Speed Freeks are starting to show up on YouTube channels.
2+ Tough has one with assembled models, which is good for getting a size reference:
I like the looks of the model, but at that size if it is much more than $50 I'm going to be really disappointed. It looks more like a $30 model to me, but then again so do Mek Gunz and they're closer to $50.
On the other hand the game actually looks like it might be something valuable and not just a couple sheets of thin cardboard to be tossed in the trash. That could be why the box is so expensive, because GW is putting a higher value on the game than usual.
At 13.40 he starts to pick up the datasheets (for the speed freeks game, but the weapons should be the same names at least)
So the Megatrakk Skrapjet has an ability that says Supercharger
"Once per battle, when this model is picked to move you can declare it to activate its supercharger. When you do so, you can reroll 1 speedin' dice for this model this round" Who knows if this will make it into 40k and what that would do? Hopefully not just reroll advance rolls.
It also has:
- A Rokkit Kannon (we knew that)
- Twin big shootas
- Rear twin big shoota (facing matters in that game, but in 40k it'll probably just be 2x twin big shootas then)
- Wing missiles (In speed freeks they're the exact same stats as a rokkit launcha, except you don't get to reroll 1 failed attack roll with the missiles)
We already know all the guns for the Boomdakka Snazzwagon but it also has the supercharger ability (same as above), It has a Reinforced Ram "You can reroll 1 dice for the other model when this model rams and the collision point is in this models front arc" Maybe that translates into something in 40k?
It also has Watch Dis! "If this model has a burnin'! damage card, subtract 1 from its drivin' tests (instead of adding 1)" Who knows if this'll translate?
The Deffkilla Watrike we already know all the guns for but it has a few abilities.
It has the Rokkit Engine "Once per battle, when this modeil is picked to move, you can declare it to fire its rokkit engine. When you do so, you can reroll any of the speedin' dice for this model this round. For each [star,explosion symbol??] result after any rerolls have been made, draw a damage card for this model" So it seems like a more high risk, high reward supercharger ability
Wheel Scythes "You can reroll 1 dice for the other model if the collision point of a ram is in this models side arc"
It also has two more abilities that I can't quite make out what they do. They're named Snagga Klaw, which I think says "In the Fightin' phase, draw a damage card for the target if any attack rolls of [ligthning symbol] are rolled for this [can't see] rolling any defence dice for the target"
And it has an ability called Fuel Mixa or something like that. I literally can't tell
Anyways, better this tiny nugget of info rather than nothing I suppose
Edit: The last ability is Fuel Mixa Grot. I still can't tell what it says but it's some sort of Once per battle ability
The board is surprisingly big, essentially two Killteam boards stuck together with a bit of room to spare. The Japanese language version of the game has already sold out so I guess it will be popular here at least.
Ridiculous. I wont be paying $125 for a single buggy.
I really hope that the ridiculous price point isn't ignored when the kit doesn't sell as well as they hoped.
"Orks dont sell" may be the first thing said in a board meeting
Now we know why those are on a base, from the underside you can see they saved money making it very unfinished and hollow in most spots (which is fine since you won't see it on the base provided). It would be like a rhino being completely hollow underneath lol. Not sure how I feel about that. If the models are going to be unfinished all around they certainly need to cost way less.
I am betting it is specifically those two buggies though since they needed less sprues for the boxed game. Also makes sense why they are exclusive to the game now.
It simply doesn't feel good value to me at £90, or £72 plus shipping (£77) from your favourite online discounter. I'm not a massive fan of the scenery, and the game maybe fun,but it'll be short lived in my local game club.
I'm holding on until the codex drops before I decide to put any cash towards this. I like the buggies, but at that price, warbikes and buggies need to be solid, viable units.
Here's hoping they're releasing these buggies later on, or some sort of speedfreeks getting started kit.
Re: Price. If you guys pass, maybe write GW a quick mail/letter explaining why. Can't hurt.
Re: Kommandoz. It's repacking. They literally sent me an automated notification that the "direct only" AoS Ironblaster was available again with a link that led to a 405 message. Wasn't listed online anymore instead of the currently unavailable feom before the message. Mailed them, "oh, sorry, that product is not available anymore". A month or so later I bought the reboxed and re-"released" Irobblaster with discount from an online store instead of GW direct.
Re: The game. Might be a fun little X-Wing of sorts with stupidly huge minis The datasheets for all new buggies, upgrades and campaigns are included, right? I wonder what is left for WD articles, then. I don't think they won't ever mention it again, so, maybe rules for the trusty old truck and Warwagon?
Ouze wrote: At $150(?) USD, Speed Freeks is going to be a hard pass for me. I already have 9 bikes and don't want more, and while I do love the buggies, I'm damn sure not paying $75 each for them, functionally.
I think it's impossible that individual sprues won't be up pretty soon though, the way that Kill Team Commanders are. If the Buggies are $25ish I will definitely get a few.
I was looking for a new 40k army, Orks where gunna be it but idk with pricing now? Let's look at speed freaks... is the most expensive start off or one off army game since AT (granted is $250AU over $240AU on average only $10 more). But what does that bode for all prices when they repackage models? I would tissue over pennies but Idk see what comes on next few weeks then will see if a waaaaaagh is in order or not
Ouze wrote: At $150(?) USD, Speed Freeks is going to be a hard pass for me. I already have 9 bikes and don't want more, and while I do love the buggies, I'm damn sure not paying $75 each for them, functionally.
I think it's impossible that individual sprues won't be up pretty soon though, the way that Kill Team Commanders are. If the Buggies are $25ish I will definitely get a few.
I'll totally be Waaaaaah them if they are reasonable or in line with everything else 40k, if they are inflated, I will be like Waaa.......sry wrong forum. I will just put more to savings AAAH< savings.
Check out the new datasheets in better resolution. And also warbikers!
Edit: Don't have my index with me, but they seem pretty similar/the same right?
Edit 2: The difference seems to be that the normal non-nob bikers "may" take a slugga and/or choppa whereas they just had that in the index. I wonder if that means our boyz are still 6ppm and it's the weapons that now cost 1 point each?
Highly doubtful, but the dataslate at least let's you take a Choppa in addition to the BC/pk on the nob, so you get an extra S5 attack.
Ouze wrote: At $150(?) USD, Speed Freeks is going to be a hard pass for me. I already have 9 bikes and don't want more, and while I do love the buggies, I'm damn sure not paying $75 each for them, functionally.
I think it's impossible that individual sprues won't be up pretty soon though, the way that Kill Team Commanders are. If the Buggies are $25ish I will definitely get a few.
25? More like 40-50
Leman Russ price band would be my guess.
I wasn't predicting a release price, I'm saying what my price band is
If they are indeed 40-50 apiece for a single buggy upon release, that would again be a hard pass. Despite the fact I really do like these models quite a bit, ultimately there are just too many really goodlookingproxies available on the market; and I already built up and painted my own scratchbuilds anyway. So, high interest but kind of low demand if that makes sense.
At least we're not looking at at staggered release after the Speed freeks box. This is a quote from todays article: "[...]the Deffkilla Wartrike, Boomdakka Snazzwagon, Megatrakk Scrapjet and Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy – all of which are available to pre-order from next weekend (along with Codex: Orks, no less)!"
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/20/speed-freeks-roars-into-action/
PiñaColada wrote: At least we're not looking at at staggered release after the Speed freeks box. This is a quote from todays article: "[...]the Deffkilla Wartrike, Boomdakka Snazzwagon, Megatrakk Scrapjet and Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy – all of which are available to pre-order from next weekend (along with Codex: Orks, no less)!"
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/20/speed-freeks-roars-into-action/
I'm happy to hear it's mostly coming out at the same time.
TedNugent wrote: They better not use that same damn cover art again.
I was annoyed when I bought the 8th Ed dark angels codex and it had the 6th Ed codex art.
They will. None of the codexes have had new cover art, except Space Marines or codexes that didn’t exist before (Death Guard).
I was about to say, prepare to be disappointed.
All just the same as their prior.
Marines only because they’re ‘sort of’ a new faction in that Primaris are now the thing.
PiñaColada wrote: At least we're not looking at at staggered release after the Speed freeks box. This is a quote from todays article: "[...]the Deffkilla Wartrike, Boomdakka Snazzwagon, Megatrakk Scrapjet and Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy – all of which are available to pre-order from next weekend (along with Codex: Orks, no less)!"
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/20/speed-freeks-roars-into-action/
I'm happy to hear it's mostly coming out at the same time.
Me too, I can put a kidney up on ebay for a 7 day sale...
I am wondering if there is more. A two week window, really only one of which is a 40k release, seems light. The third week might be the terrain piece, or something they have managed to keep under wraps... Anyway, I have my first Ork game booked for the 6th at my FLGS. Anyone know how long it takes Battlescribe to update after a codex comes out? I've never hand done an 8th edition list!
Say what you will, the price is fairly reasonable for what you get in the box. If you get Bikes from GW each box of 3 costs $40. So two boxes add up to $80. If each of those new buggies costs $35 (reasonable for new items) then they add up to $70. So at that point the stuff is worth $150 not accounting for the terrain, the game board, rule-book or gaming accessories.
I get that it's frustrating to have to buy all of it, but chances are good the buggies will be available separately in the future.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Say what you will, the price is fairly reasonable for what you get in the box. If you get Bikes from GW each box of 3 costs $40. So two boxes add up to $80. If each of those new buggies costs $35 (reasonable for new items) then they add up to $70. So at that point the stuff is worth $150 not accounting for the terrain, the game board, rule-book or gaming accessories.
I get that it's frustrating to have to buy all of it, but chances are good the buggies will be available separately in the future.
No one is claiming the price isn’t accurate.. the issue is unlike nearly every box set there is no discount... so if I wasn’t really in the need for new warbikers or really into convincing people to play one off games. This is a hard pass.. I’ll just pick up the buggies I want when they go in preorder and the terrain when it goes on preorder and If i need more scatter terrain.
I have 10 warbikers I don’t really need more. I would have picked up the boxsex if it was 125-135....as that would mean at least one box of war bikes are free and a good discount
No one is claiming the price isn’t accurate.. the issue is unlike nearly every box set there is no discount... so if I wasn’t really in the need for new warbikers or really into convincing people to play one off games. This is a hard pass.. I’ll just pick up the buggies I want when they go in preorder and the terrain when it goes on preorder and If i need more scatter terrain.
I have 10 warbikers I don’t really need more. I would have picked up the boxsex if it was 125-135....as that would mean at least one box of war bikes are free and a good discount
You're right, but even from a purely modelling standpoint the "no discount" assumes the orky terrain is worth $0. It's a fairly large sprue of terrain, and comparing it to even the smallest sector mechanicus terrain it could be anywhere between $25-$35 on its own if sold separate.
I think the biggest winners from this box will be people looking for loads of cheap bikes on ebay.
gungo wrote: No one is claiming the price isn’t accurate.. the issue is unlike nearly every box set there is no discount...
No, the really worrying part is that there almost certainly is a discount, which would mean that GW prices the new buggies a lot higher than what we're used to.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Say what you will, the price is fairly reasonable for what you get in the box. If you get Bikes from GW each box of 3 costs $40. So two boxes add up to $80. If each of those new buggies costs $35 (reasonable for new items) then they add up to $70. So at that point the stuff is worth $150 not accounting for the terrain, the game board, rule-book or gaming accessories.
I get that it's frustrating to have to buy all of it, but chances are good the buggies will be available separately in the future.
No one is claiming the price isn’t accurate.. the issue is unlike nearly every box set there is no discount... so if I wasn’t really in the need for new warbikers or really into convincing people to play one off games. This is a hard pass.. I’ll just pick up the buggies I want when they go in preorder and the terrain when it goes on preorder and If i need more scatter terrain.
I have 10 warbikers I don’t really need more. I would have picked up the boxsex if it was 125-135....as that would mean at least one box of war bikes are free and a good discount
The discount, even from a purely modelling standpoint comes from the free terrain. Even the smallest sector mechanicus costs $25-$35. If the rumored Mek Shop is released, I'm guessing some of this terrain will accompany it at a lofty price.
I do get the disappointment over price hikes though; last year when the DG icon bearer mini cost $25 for a single plague marine I thought it was absolute greed. This is nowhere near as crass.
Totally depends on what you are pricing before you discount for the box. Price the buggys the same as Mek Gunz and the terrain at $35 you get (Total Speculation):
Ork Biker Mob $41.25 x 2 = $82.50
Buggy $46 x 2 = $92
Ork Terrain $35 = $35
Total = $209.50
No one is claiming the price isn’t accurate.. the issue is unlike nearly every box set there is no discount... so if I wasn’t really in the need for new warbikers or really into convincing people to play one off games. This is a hard pass.. I’ll just pick up the buggies I want when they go in preorder and the terrain when it goes on preorder and If i need more scatter terrain.
I have 10 warbikers I don’t really need more. I would have picked up the boxsex if it was 125-135....as that would mean at least one box of war bikes are free and a good discount
You're right, but even from a purely modelling standpoint the "no discount" assumes the orky terrain is worth $0. It's a fairly large sprue of terrain, and comparing it to even the smallest sector mechanicus terrain it could be anywhere between $25-$35 on its own if sold separate.
I think the biggest winners from this box will be people looking for loads of cheap bikes on ebay.
Don't know how many will be up there considering the huge initial cost of a box set in USA which at today's rate retail for retail is 22% higher then England pays for the same dang set. I think they missed the price point considerably for what they are offering in the set. I think had it been around the 130 base range and you got the max 15% allowed off for ebay retailers and then hopefully god willing a 15% ebay coupon code special, I would have got two sets. But given at $150 and the low model count even with cool terrain, I don't see the value of this set that makes it that price. Compared to the Kill Team starter box set which sold way out and hasn't seen a restock since, I doubt these will fly off the shelves like them. I could be wrong but doubtful judging from the over all opinions. games workshop screwed the pooch on this one.
No one is claiming the price isn’t accurate.. the issue is unlike nearly every box set there is no discount... so if I wasn’t really in the need for new warbikers or really into convincing people to play one off games. This is a hard pass.. I’ll just pick up the buggies I want when they go in preorder and the terrain when it goes on preorder and If i need more scatter terrain.
I have 10 warbikers I don’t really need more. I would have picked up the boxsex if it was 125-135....as that would mean at least one box of war bikes are free and a good discount
You're right, but even from a purely modelling standpoint the "no discount" assumes the orky terrain is worth $0. It's a fairly large sprue of terrain, and comparing it to even the smallest sector mechanicus terrain it could be anywhere between $25-$35 on its own if sold separate.
I think the biggest winners from this box will be people looking for loads of cheap bikes on ebay.
Don't know how many will be up there considering the huge initial cost of a box set in USA which at today's rate retail for retail is 22% higher then England pays for the same dang set. I think they missed the price point considerably for what they are offering in the set. I think had it been around the 130 base range and you got the max 15% allowed off for ebay retailers and then hopefully god willing a 15% ebay coupon code special, I would have got two sets. But given at $150 and the low model count even with cool terrain, I don't see the value of this set that makes it that price. Compared to the Kill Team starter box set which sold way out and hasn't seen a restock since, I doubt these will fly off the shelves like them. I could be wrong but doubtful judging from the over all opinions. games workshop screwed the pooch on this one.
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r_squared wrote: It simply doesn't feel good value to me at £90, or £72 plus shipping (£77) from your favourite online discounter. I'm not a massive fan of the scenery, and the game maybe fun,but it'll be short lived in my local game club.
I'm holding on until the codex drops before I decide to put any cash towards this. I like the buggies, but at that price, warbikes and buggies need to be solid, viable units.
Here's hoping they're releasing these buggies later on, or some sort of speedfreeks getting started kit.
Imagine having to pay 22% higher for the same product like us on the other side of the pond have to
Hive City Dweller wrote: Say what you will, the price is fairly reasonable for what you get in the box. If you get Bikes from GW each box of 3 costs $40. So two boxes add up to $80. If each of those new buggies costs $35 (reasonable for new items) then they add up to $70. So at that point the stuff is worth $150 not accounting for the terrain, the game board, rule-book or gaming accessories.
I get that it's frustrating to have to buy all of it, but chances are good the buggies will be available separately in the future.
$40 for 3 bikes is excessive.
The old battleforce (of which I own two) included 3 bikes, a truck and 20 boys for $100. Bundles include discounts to account for the fact that you are buying in bulk and may be getting things in the bundle you didn't necessarily want to buy.
You can afford for the margins to be lower on a bulk sale due to the higher price point.
I picked up the game for under $130 online. I intend to use it for the game, and may add in some of the other vehicles when they are available. I'm happy with the purchase.
So is there some sort of tax or import issue that leads to these massive prices in NZ/AU?
I think its largely a "because we can" tax, since GW can shut down a lot of the grey channel imports to Oz & NZ through contracts with suppliers they can get away with it.
Likely aware the eBay type domestic resellers simply are unlikely to make a huge dent in the supply so basically they can charge what they want, they obviously get enough sales at this price point otherwise it would have been changed
Based on the US price for two boxes of bikes, we are left with $67.50 US to cover the two buggies, terrain, and the game. The buggies should easily come in at around $35-40 each and the terrain will likely go for $30 at least.
It does wind up being a savings over expected retail but if you already have bikes like most of us do then it's less of a value because you're not likely to offload those bikes for anything close to what you'd buy them for.
TedNugent wrote: $40 for 3 bikes was never a reasonable price to begin with
And yet some people bought them by the dozen. I personally bought all my bikers on Ebay for dirt cheap I think I have 35ish Warbikes and I maybe spent 100 to $125 USD for them.
as for the Box set for this game....as I said, I have 35 warbikes...why the feth would I buy the box set when half the cost (at least) is tied into 6 new warbikes that I will never be able to use in games because the most you can have is 36.
Anyway...fingers crossed GW does justice to their own hype....Calling this new Codex "THE BEST ORK CODEX EVER!"
When the codex doesn't include a wargear option that was in the index, are we going to still be able to use the index wargear until the next version of the rules drops?
Coh Magnussen wrote: Good, because I just modeled my first nob with a kombiskorcha lol.
I wouldn't worry about units like that since the nob kit does actually include a kombi-skorcha. We need to worry about units that DON'T have a model, like KMB's on Killa Kanz and Deff Dreads, all of our characters on bikes, regular meks with KFF's (I think there MAY be a model for that, not sure), things like that.
Theres an old model for mek with KFF, but apparently its not on the site anymore.
Which i find weird because they still sell the other "was metal now finecast" stuff.
They better not remove that one unless they FINALLY give our vehicles access to it anyway. Always bugged me that the Morkanaut was the ONLY nonmek to have a KFF, when it makes more sense to strap it to a BW than an ork's back...
Coh Magnussen wrote: Good, because I just modeled my first nob with a kombiskorcha lol.
If you have any models that are index only entries, or have index wargear, I would not expect them to be valid in about a year. Just based on how GW has operated over the past 20 years, models that no longer have rules and are based on kit bashes, or oop models, disappear as options with time.
Coh Magnussen wrote: Good, because I just modeled my first nob with a kombiskorcha lol.
If you have any models that are index only entries, or have index wargear, I would not expect them to be valid in about a year. Just based on how GW has operated over the past 20 years, models that no longer have rules and are based on kit bashes, or oop models, disappear as options with time.
That's exactly why I am angry they wrote the Kannon, Zapp and lobba off instead of keeping them as an option for the entry.
This index thing will disappear, then
The big guns entry and may be the whole FW ork range vehicules with these weapons are hence deleted from use in the game:
how much can we use these pdf they released with rules for the OOP items?
Hive City Dweller wrote: Say what you will, the price is fairly reasonable for what you get in the box. If you get Bikes from GW each box of 3 costs $40. So two boxes add up to $80. If each of those new buggies costs $35 (reasonable for new items) then they add up to $70. So at that point the stuff is worth $150 not accounting for the terrain, the game board, rule-book or gaming accessories.
I get that it's frustrating to have to buy all of it, but chances are good the buggies will be available separately in the future.
No one is claiming the price isn’t accurate.. the issue is unlike nearly every box set there is no discount... so if I wasn’t really in the need for new warbikers or really into convincing people to play one off games. This is a hard pass.. I’ll just pick up the buggies I want when they go in preorder and the terrain when it goes on preorder and If i need more scatter terrain.
I have 10 warbikers I don’t really need more. I would have picked up the boxsex if it was 125-135....as that would mean at least one box of war bikes are free and a good discount
I suspect buggies are 40-50 which gives discount. And hard to say no discount when we don#t know price of buggies
gungo wrote: No one is claiming the price isn’t accurate.. the issue is unlike nearly every box set there is no discount...
No, the really worrying part is that there almost certainly is a discount, which would mean that GW prices the new buggies a lot higher than what we're used to.
Well buggies are new units lot bigger. Surely no-one thought we would get new buggies at price of old?
Hive City Dweller wrote: Say what you will, the price is fairly reasonable for what you get in the box. If you get Bikes from GW each box of 3 costs $40. So two boxes add up to $80. If each of those new buggies costs $35 (reasonable for new items) then they add up to $70. So at that point the stuff is worth $150 not accounting for the terrain, the game board, rule-book or gaming accessories.
I get that it's frustrating to have to buy all of it, but chances are good the buggies will be available separately in the future.
$40 for 3 bikes is excessive.
The old battleforce (of which I own two) included 3 bikes, a truck and 20 boys for $100. Bundles include discounts to account for the fact that you are buying in bulk and may be getting things in the bundle you didn't necessarily want to buy.
You can afford for the margins to be lower on a bulk sale due to the higher price point.
Umm you don#t put discounted price of unit before factoring in further discount. You look what they are individially.
TedNugent wrote: $40 for 3 bikes was never a reasonable price to begin with
And yet some people bought them by the dozen. I personally bought all my bikers on Ebay for dirt cheap I think I have 35ish Warbikes and I maybe spent 100 to $125 USD for them.
as for the Box set for this game....as I said, I have 35 warbikes...why the feth would I buy the box set when half the cost (at least) is tied into 6 new warbikes that I will never be able to use in games because the most you can have is 36.
Anyway...fingers crossed GW does justice to their own hype....Calling this new Codex "THE BEST ORK CODEX EVER!"
Well you aren't then market for it. Or you sell unneeded. Just like every discount box where you don#t want all. Either you want all, you sell which you don#t or you don#t get discount
Coh Magnussen wrote: Good, because I just modeled my first nob with a kombiskorcha lol.
I wouldn't worry about units like that since the nob kit does actually include a kombi-skorcha. We need to worry about units that DON'T have a model, like KMB's on Killa Kanz and Deff Dreads, all of our characters on bikes, regular meks with KFF's (I think there MAY be a model for that, not sure), things like that.
Prettv sure kan's have kmb. I suck at kitbashing yet have kmb kans.
... so black fortress (40k heroquest) is getting being listed as fully operational in the upcoming weekend (this 24-25Nov) at WHW in UK ... that gives at least two weeks before that date (assuming pre orders are set on the same weekend) ... two weeks for either new kommandoz or gsc
Coh Magnussen wrote: Good, because I just modeled my first nob with a kombiskorcha lol.
If you have any models that are index only entries, or have index wargear, I would not expect them to be valid in about a year. Just based on how GW has operated over the past 20 years, models that no longer have rules and are based on kit bashes, or oop models, disappear as options with time.
That's exactly why I am angry they wrote the Kannon, Zapp and lobba off instead of keeping them as an option for the entry.
This index thing will disappear, then
The big guns entry and may be the whole FW ork range vehicules with these weapons are hence deleted from use in the game:
how much can we use these pdf they released with rules for the OOP items?
All three of them are part of the Battlewagon kit (well, lobba is on the upgrade frame), so the weapons themselves should still be in the codex. So, in theory, you should be able to take the base cost of the mek gun + cost of the Battlewagon weapon to have an unofficial way of fielding the old guns, regardless of what happens to the index. Of course at that point it seems really petty of GW, not to have just included the rules for models that pretty much every Ork player already has.
aracersss wrote: that least two weeks before that date (assuming pre orders are set on the same weekend) ... two weeks for either new kommandoz or gsc
Or blood bowl team, Necromunda gang, shadespire bands, or more Kill teams things..
Exactly, a lot of people seem to be holding out hope for something else. It might happen of course but at this point, surely it's pretty unlikely. I guess it's possible that because a new tankbusta/kommando kit wouldn't require new stats in the codex really it's possible that it slipped past the playtesters leaking stuff. This is assuming they make a box that contains the exact same loadouts as the existing box which seems unlikely IMO. They'd probably add some extra gubbins in there to try and sell new boxes and that stuff would show up in the new codex.
We still (maybe?) have the mek shop on the horizon. If it's done in the same style/compatible/actually made up of the terrain in the speed freeks box it could be a cool model. It seems like a the previews of the SF box are gushing about how good that terrain is and how it isn't properly picked up by the cameras unpainted
Edit: We'll probably get an article about the codex or the other new buggies today right? Would that be around 6PM british time?
GW said we will see a big campaign like Gathering Storm for 40k next year. This time all major factions seem to be involved / already taking part in the Vigilus conflict. I assume there could be releases like a plastic Ghazhgkull and other updated models like Abbaddon plus some new faction Codices with new models for The Lost and Damned, World Eaters and Emperors Children throughout this campaign.
Guyver 3 wrote: I love orks but “orktober” has been a huge dissapointment
Literally the only thing I’m looking forward to now is some much needed points reductions in my current army,
Trucks going from 5 to 3 powerlevel makes me happy though.
The trukk discount is exciting but I've seen some poeple saying it's going to drop basically 40 points because of the 2 PL change and that's not going to happen IMO. From my understand of PL it should've been 4PL, not 5. Since it costs either 82 or 85 points depending on equipment and that falls into the 4PL range of 70-90 points. So it seems like it's going to be getting a discount but it might be a bit smaller than some people expect. The new point range should therefore be 50-70 points.
I think (total speculation) that it's going to cost 58 points with the big shoota and I'm guessing the wrecking ball is unchanged in cost.
Guyver 3 wrote: I love orks but “orktober” has been a huge dissapointment
Literally the only thing I’m looking forward to now is some much needed points reductions in my current army,
Trucks going from 5 to 3 powerlevel makes me happy though.
The trukk discount is exciting but I've seen some poeple saying it's going to drop basically 40 points because of the 2 PL change and that's not going to happen IMO. From my understand of PL it should've been 4PL, not 5. Since it costs either 82 or 85 points depending on equipment and that falls into the 4PL range of 70-90 points. So it seems like it's going to be getting a discount but it might be a bit smaller than some people expect. The new point range should therefore be 50-70 points.
I think (total speculation) that it's going to cost 58 points with the big shoota and I'm guessing the wrecking ball is unchanged in cost.
I agree it won’t suddenly be 35 points or anything but any points drop in my truck army is a good thing.
Imo it’s insane that a trukk is more points than a rhino while being worse in almost every way, that should have been spotted immediately but I don’t want to get into the crazy points cost of ork units in this thread.
Hope the Truck becomes viable, have one built and two unbuilt here, ditto a pair of unbuilt battlewagons, points drop of any sort warmly welcomed - even if its the base vehicle is cheaper with the upgrades being more expensive.
Expect the Big Shoota to drop in cost, its currently somewhat ridiculous, you could actually make it a zero cost option, anything that can take it is limited in how many so its not like you can spam them and with Ork ballistic skill its if anything a downgrade on an ork boy - especially if boyz become more expensive having it a zero or low cost makes sense.
hoping the new buggies are decently cheap in points (though then likely boosted early next year or maybe even in CA2018) but to be honest can;t see buying them anyway
Guyver 3 wrote: I’d bet good money will get the points wrong and address them in chapter approved
Not taking that bet, this is a near certainty, that or a day one FAQ on a couple of points that make you wonder if anyone bothered to read it before it went to the printers
leopard wrote: Hope the Truck becomes viable, have one built and two unbuilt here, ditto a pair of unbuilt battlewagons, points drop of any sort warmly welcomed - even if its the base vehicle is cheaper with the upgrades being more expensive.
Expect the Big Shoota to drop in cost, its currently somewhat ridiculous, you could actually make it a zero cost option, anything that can take it is limited in how many so its not like you can spam them and with Ork ballistic skill its if anything a downgrade on an ork boy - especially if boyz become more expensive having it a zero or low cost makes sense.
hoping the new buggies are decently cheap in points (though then likely boosted early next year or maybe even in CA2018) but to be honest can;t see buying them anyway
The battlewagon is rumoured to drop 41 points in base cost from that french youtuber. Hopefully rokkit launchas and big shootas drop a bit as well so it's not unlikely that they end up a full 50 points cheaper if those rumours are to be trusted.
Edit: I seriously doubt Orks are going to be changed at all in this Chapter Approved. The releases are too close to each other since that's a printed resource, so any errors are most likely fixed in that two week after errata or spring 2019 FAQ
leopard wrote: Hope the Truck becomes viable, have one built and two unbuilt here, ditto a pair of unbuilt battlewagons, points drop of any sort warmly welcomed - even if its the base vehicle is cheaper with the upgrades being more expensive.
Expect the Big Shoota to drop in cost, its currently somewhat ridiculous, you could actually make it a zero cost option, anything that can take it is limited in how many so its not like you can spam them and with Ork ballistic skill its if anything a downgrade on an ork boy - especially if boyz become more expensive having it a zero or low cost makes sense.
hoping the new buggies are decently cheap in points (though then likely boosted early next year or maybe even in CA2018) but to be honest can;t see buying them anyway
The battlewagon is rumoured to drop 41 points in base cost from that french youtuber. Hopefully rokkit launchas and big shootas drop a bit as well so it's not unlikely that they end up a full 50 points cheaper if those rumours are to be trusted.
Edit: I seriously doubt Orks are going to be changed at all in this Chapter Approved. The releases are too close to each other since that's a printed resource, so any errors are most likely fixed in that two week after errata or spring 2019 FAQ
had heard the wagons are dropping, given I'm after battle taxis that can move, advance and still fire the quad big shoota option is about all they will get (plus the spiked death roller of death obviously). rokkits getting cheaper though may see to as yet old style Leman Russ chassis (sans tracks) being built up as BRDM-2 with a rack of rokkits on the back if I can find suitable wheels.
as for changes, well yes an errata or day one FAQ is more likely, depends on the lead times, will be expecting buggies to have a lower cost initially and be raised at some point if it becomes a problem/when GW have something else to sell
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Don’t forget, books go for printing some three or more months before release.
Which means FAQs have plenty of time to skew things. Hence we get FAQs and occasionally flat out eratta on release.
It’s not perfect, and better job probs could be done. But it’s still worth bearing in mind.
Maybe taking an army and playing a few hundred games with them before printing may help iron out those problems, or is that crazy talk!!
I mean, are you assuming the Ork codex is going to be crap? Anecdotally from the few playtesters I know (as in sort of know) their answers regarding whether or not Imperial Knights were too strong were always "wait until the orks get here". Now maybe it's one broken build, maybe they just said that to get everyone off their back, maybe whatever they referred to doesn't work any longer because of the newest FAQ or changes made to the codex since playtesting..Point being, there's no reason to claim the sky is falling quite just yet
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Don’t forget, books go for printing some three or more months before release.
Which means FAQs have plenty of time to skew things. Hence we get FAQs and occasionally flat out eratta on release.
It’s not perfect, and better job probs could be done. But it’s still worth bearing in mind.
Maybe taking an army and playing a few hundred games with them before printing may help iron out those problems, or is that crazy talk!!
They have strictly limited man hours to play test stuff. After all, they want to release it at some point. Said man hours are dwarfed as soon as the book hits shelves and people start playing it.
That we have anything even dimly approaching absolute balance is a bloody miracle, given the sheer number of non-pointed variables at play (such as relative player skill, terrain being used etc). Knights for example struggle on multilevel terrain, because they can’t assault stuff on it (unless an FAQ changed that). Any vehicle heavy army has a tricker time on terrain dense boards.
And dare I say it, there’s those with an axe to grind always willing to make up Horror battle reports (remember ramshackle? Some gimp on BoLS claimed he rolled the worst possible at all times, across 6 Trukks. Even admitted he’d made it up, but still whined).
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Don’t forget, books go for printing some three or more months before release.
Which means FAQs have plenty of time to skew things. Hence we get FAQs and occasionally flat out eratta on release.
It’s not perfect, and better job probs could be done. But it’s still worth bearing in mind.
Maybe taking an army and playing a few hundred games with them before printing may help iron out those problems, or is that crazy talk!!
I mean, are you assuming the Ork codex is going to be crap? Anecdotally from the few playtesters I know (as in sort of know) their answers regarding whether or not Imperial Knights were too strong were always "wait until the orks get here". Now maybe it's one broken build, maybe they just said that to get everyone off their back, maybe whatever they referred to doesn't work any longer because of the newest FAQ or changes made to the codex since playtesting..Point being, there's no reason to claim the sky is falling quite just yet
I was more referring to the points costs of various new units and gws policy to errata points costs rather than get them right first time.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Don’t forget, books go for printing some three or more months before release.
Which means FAQs have plenty of time to skew things. Hence we get FAQs and occasionally flat out eratta on release.
It’s not perfect, and better job probs could be done. But it’s still worth bearing in mind.
Maybe taking an army and playing a few hundred games with them before printing may help iron out those problems, or is that crazy talk!!
I mean, are you assuming the Ork codex is going to be crap? Anecdotally from the few playtesters I know (as in sort of know) their answers regarding whether or not Imperial Knights were too strong were always "wait until the orks get here". Now maybe it's one broken build, maybe they just said that to get everyone off their back, maybe whatever they referred to doesn't work any longer because of the newest FAQ or changes made to the codex since playtesting..Point being, there's no reason to claim the sky is falling quite just yet
And one playtester claimed stompas rock when 8th ed comes. Yeah rock the top lists in worst unit in game!
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Don’t forget, books go for printing some three or more months before release.
Which means FAQs have plenty of time to skew things. Hence we get FAQs and occasionally flat out eratta on release.
It’s not perfect, and better job probs could be done. But it’s still worth bearing in mind.
Maybe taking an army and playing a few hundred games with them before printing may help iron out those problems, or is that crazy talk!!
I mean, are you assuming the Ork codex is going to be crap? Anecdotally from the few playtesters I know (as in sort of know) their answers regarding whether or not Imperial Knights were too strong were always "wait until the orks get here". Now maybe it's one broken build, maybe they just said that to get everyone off their back, maybe whatever they referred to doesn't work any longer because of the newest FAQ or changes made to the codex since playtesting..Point being, there's no reason to claim the sky is falling quite just yet
And one playtester claimed stompas rock when 8th ed comes. Yeah rock the top lists in worst unit in game!
Ï mean, yes, obviously these are opinions and can as such be wrong. In some cases, extremely wrong However that example is at least from the beginning of the 8th edition and very few codices (if any) were out. I'm not saying the stompa looked good even back then but now that almost all codices are out and some players are saying Orks are going to be really good (these guys are good players too) I'm inclined to believe them. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
Ï mean, yes, obviously these are opinions and can as such be wrong. In some cases, extremely wrong However that example is at least from the beginning of the 8th edition and very few codices (if any) were out. I'm not saying the stompa looked good even back then but now that almost all codices are out and some players are saying Orks are going to be really good (these guys are good players too) I'm inclined to believe them. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
You don't even have to playtest to know if a unit will be crap. Just compare it to similar units from other factions and then compare durability, damage output and utility to one another. The stompa has 2 units that are roughly similar to it, Imperial Knights and Wraithknights. The Stompa three times as expensive, has LESS dakka and is about as durable as the Knights. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that RAISING the price of one of the worst units in the Ork codex wasn't going to make it better.
As for the playtesters for our 8th edition codex. Well we don't know what the official verdict is yet and we don't even know what they have said beyond hearsay. But I have to tell you, so far the Ork playtesters are terrible in 8th and it will take a LOT of change in the codex for me to change my opinion on them and GW in general.
As for the playtesters for our 8th edition codex. Well we don't know what the official verdict is yet and we don't even know what they have said beyond hearsay. But I have to tell you, so far the Ork playtesters are terrible in 8th and it will take a LOT of change in the codex for me to change my opinion on them and GW in general.
There is a lot of collaboration now between the testers and rules writers. This didn't exist prior to 8th. It gets a little better with each release. However, even with hundreds of testers (I don't know the exact number, but its impossible to have enough), the thousands of actual players will quickly find ways to exploit and loophole their way to maximum efficiency. It's just a numbers game. It's part of the reason they are now trying the "Beta" codex in CA for sisters. Trying to see if putting it out there to the overall community + testers + multiple teams of rules writers = a balanced system.
Guyver 3 wrote: A crusader and a gallant both fully loaded with Melta and carapace weapons is cheaper than a single stompa!
Need I say more?
Yeah but that's only because GW has limited playtesting time and it's impossible for them to see all the little loopholes that literally everyone else spots on their first leaf through a codex.
Guyver 3 wrote: A crusader and a gallant both fully loaded with Melta and carapace weapons is cheaper than a single stompa!
Need I say more?
Yeah but that's only because GW has limited playtesting time and it's impossible for them to see all the little loopholes that literally everyone else spots on their first leaf through a codex.
I'm surprised they didn't fix the points cost in any of the previous chapter approved.
CA: Change points cost of Stompa from "STUPID" to "STUPID-400"
Guyver 3 wrote: A crusader and a gallant both fully loaded with Melta and carapace weapons is cheaper than a single stompa!
Need I say more?
The stompa is certainly not costed correctly, but trying to ask why it cant do things that knights can is like asking why you can't hammer in a nail with a backsaw.
Amen, a wraithknight and a imperial knoght also cant carry thirty of whatever infantry they want inside as well.
Stompa can carry 20 infantry...same as a Battlewagon or 2 Trukkz. So take a knight, add on the price of a Battlewagon and its about 1/2 the price of the stompa
Yeah, the whole stompa argument is a bit strange. Obviously you can make the argument to point out that whatever playtesters say shouldn't be treated as gospel but as far as I know there wasn't some sort of concensus in the playtester community that it was super good. Reece pointed it out, I don't know if anyone else mirrored that statrement. So it shouldn't be used to void the credibility of an entire playtester community. This edition is very much still a "living entity" in that codices are still coming out, so balance will be difficult.
Are there obvious things that need fixing? Yes, without a doubt. But I think playtesters are hamstrung by GWs way too lax allies system., I don't think anything resembling balance can be expected when you can cherry pick units from a library consisting of thousands
PiñaColada wrote: Yeah, the whole stompa argument is a bit strange. Obviously you can make the argument to point out that whatever playtesters say shouldn't be treated as gospel but as far as I know there wasn't some sort of concensus in the playtester community that it was super good. Reece pointed it out, I don't know if anyone else mirrored that statrement. So it shouldn't be used to void the credibility of an entire playtester community. This edition is very much still a "living entity" in that codices are still coming out, so balance will be difficult.
Are there obvious things that need fixing? Yes, without a doubt. But I think playtesters are hamstrung by GWs way too lax allies system., I don't think anything resembling balance can be expected when you can cherry pick units from a library consisting of thousands
Well we can all agree that it ruined Reece's credibility when it comes to all thinks Orky. It just blows my mind that nobody can be bothered to run the numbers and comparisons. The stompa believe it or not actually became MORE fragile this edition. I believe it is only more durable vs Melta, everything else it became more vulnerable to.
PiñaColada wrote: Yeah, the whole stompa argument is a bit strange. Obviously you can make the argument to point out that whatever playtesters say shouldn't be treated as gospel but as far as I know there wasn't some sort of concensus in the playtester community that it was super good. Reece pointed it out, I don't know if anyone else mirrored that statrement. So it shouldn't be used to void the credibility of an entire playtester community. This edition is very much still a "living entity" in that codices are still coming out, so balance will be difficult.
Are there obvious things that need fixing? Yes, without a doubt. But I think playtesters are hamstrung by GWs way too lax allies system., I don't think anything resembling balance can be expected when you can cherry pick units from a library consisting of thousands
I agree but that’s the issue with allies,
is it is an impossible task to correctly point every unit? maybe! But is it impossible or even difficult to see that some units are just insanely priced.
Gw is about sales as well as games it’s not out of the realm of possibility that a fairly costed unit will sell more than a badly costed one, I don’t understand why gw aren’t totally on top of this.
Guyver 3 wrote: A crusader and a gallant both fully loaded with Melta and carapace weapons is cheaper than a single stompa!
Need I say more?
Stompas can benefit for Kustom Force Fields, and have a healthy perimeter of Boyz to prevent really nasty stuff assaulting them. They also block LoS for other units in their army really quite nicely. Ork armies tend to do pretty well when it comes down to Objectives. It can also be backed up with cheapo Deff Dredds and Kans.
Do you see the fundamental difference between the two armies yet?
For clarity. Nobody is saying the Stompa is correctly or fairly pointed. Just that comparing an Imperial Knight to a Stompa doesn’t work.
Even as someone skeptical about buggies, and similarly disappointed by kit updates, you have to admit that those buggies are amazing sculpts, totally unexpected, with flavorful rules, and a new specialty game they can be played in that is 100% Ork themed.
It's not gorkamorka, but. It's not exzoggly a kick in da teef.
pismakron wrote: The new boxes could be twice as expensive and I would still buy two of each. GW got me by the balls. I am a total junkie
considering your cost is only $117.50 by today's conversion standards for retail price in USD and ours is $150 before discounts if i could get them for 117 plus probably a 15% discount I might order two also. but not at $300 the value isnt there and quite frankly I think it is where I put my foot down like I do with Forgeworld if the value is not there reguardless of how much I love my orks I just can't buy it. Speed freeks are like mek guns for me. I never saw the value in mek guns and never bought them.
It is only when people especially Americans, Canadians, and Austriallians stop buying the products that GW maybe will adjust their prices. (and stop their rediculous self imposed tarriffs on these countries and I am sure others some real first order stuff going on there.) GW have been putting out a lot of decent deals in box sets that I have been getting but this is definately not one of them. At $150 for a game with limited models there are plenty of games on Kickstarter with nicer models and greater value so the dual purpose is a selling point but not a strong enough one when probably the only thing i would use them for is 40k . I will admit it is harder for me to pass on because Orks are my favorite army and I was excited and planned on ordering them since we first started seeing the new kits, but I did a hard pass on Adeptus Mechanicus and never had one regret about it. I was a starry eyed dreamer when they said it was going to be Orktober I got excited but seeing this as the first release at the end of October just got me thinking that GW has similiar issues as small companies have about putting stuff out as promised... ***Cough*** Fallout ***Cough*** I don't see me getting Speed Freeks either sorry GW you lost me at $150. I was thinking it would be below the $130 mark of the Kill Team box set as there was a ton of value there. Maybe if I got it for $117 like UK does I would consider it. After seeing the release and what you actually get for $150 it really is a no brainer to pass on. even though it breaks my orky heart.
Guyver 3 wrote: A crusader and a gallant both fully loaded with Melta and carapace weapons is cheaper than a single stompa!
Need I say more?
Stompas can benefit for Kustom Force Fields, and have a healthy perimeter of Boyz to prevent really nasty stuff assaulting them. They also block LoS for other units in their army really quite nicely. Ork armies tend to do pretty well when it comes down to Objectives. It can also be backed up with cheapo Deff Dredds and Kans.
Do you see the fundamental difference between the two armies yet?
For clarity. Nobody is saying the Stompa is correctly or fairly pointed. Just that comparing an Imperial Knight to a Stompa doesn’t work.
For more clarity, since you skipped over it - Allies exist. Despite efforts to make monofaction builds more appealing, Soup continues to be so commonplace that it's functionally the default state for Imperial forces. Knights can benefit from Techpriests. Knights can bubblewrap with cheapo Guardsmen who also grant them oodles of CP. Knights can grab cheapo support vehicles from Guard or Skitarii, or elite units they can LoS block for from Marines etc. To say that Knights aren't comparable because Orks can do all sorts of stuff that a pure Knights list can't do is a nonsense when you have the option of simply not running pure Knights thus gain access to everything you point out Orks can do, without sacrificing the strength of Knights as a unit. So once you stop imposing the entirely artificial in 8th limitation of only considering pure army lists, comparing Knights and Stompas works great, and further emphasises the Stompa's issues.
No, it works (roughly) as intended. Knights were always meant to use allies, they were even in the same book with Ad Mech in this very edition. Stompas just suck.
That's a terrible argument. Units need to be statted and pointed according to their actual value in the game as it is played. If a unit is bad within the context of the core rules, then that is a fault with the unit, not the core rules (even if the core rules are dumb in the first place).
Guyver 3 wrote: A crusader and a gallant both fully loaded with Melta and carapace weapons is cheaper than a single stompa!
Need I say more?
Stompas can benefit for Kustom Force Fields, and have a healthy perimeter of Boyz to prevent really nasty stuff assaulting them. They also block LoS for other units in their army really quite nicely. Ork armies tend to do pretty well when it comes down to Objectives. It can also be backed up with cheapo Deff Dredds and Kans.
Do you see the fundamental difference between the two armies yet?
For clarity. Nobody is saying the Stompa is correctly or fairly pointed. Just that comparing an Imperial Knight to a Stompa doesn’t work.
Except back in the dim and slightly damp past when they were both first introdcued in 1st edition Space Marine they were intended to be pretty similar, GW appears to have confused the stompa with the Slasha Gargant and priced it like a small titan.
i don't want the Stompa to be a knight with some green paint, but I do want it to be sensible.
Guyver 3 wrote: A crusader and a gallant both fully loaded with Melta and carapace weapons is cheaper than a single stompa!
Need I say more?
Stompas can benefit for Kustom Force Fields, and have a healthy perimeter of Boyz to prevent really nasty stuff assaulting them. They also block LoS for other units in their army really quite nicely. Ork armies tend to do pretty well when it comes down to Objectives. It can also be backed up with cheapo Deff Dredds and Kans.
Do you see the fundamental difference between the two armies yet?
For clarity. Nobody is saying the Stompa is correctly or fairly pointed. Just that comparing an Imperial Knight to a Stompa doesn’t work.
Except back in the dim and slightly damp past when they were both first introdcued in 1st edition Space Marine they were intended to be pretty similar, GW appears to have confused the stompa with the Slasha Gargant and priced it like a small titan.
i don't want the Stompa to be a knight with some green paint, but I do want it to be sensible.
I’m happy that the stompa is an unreliable upside down bucket with guns. I’d just love to field it as easily as imperial players field a Castellan but that’s not the case,
Stompa can come with a border of same faction infantry. Knights don’t. So that affects the sorts of armies you can build.
Wraithknights? Somewhere between the two in terms of infantry.
So where Imperial Knights will struggle to control objectives, Stompas and Wraithknights don’t, because they come in specific codecies.
Now that’s not to say the Stompa is actually fine and fairly pointed. Just that one can’t compare Super Heavy A to Super Heavy Z so neatly.
Uuh stompa has lot better support than stompa. Boyz? Howabout ig troopers? Slamquinus? Custodes shield captain? In terms of army building knights beat stompas big time
As for the playtesters for our 8th edition codex. Well we don't know what the official verdict is yet and we don't even know what they have said beyond hearsay. But I have to tell you, so far the Ork playtesters are terrible in 8th and it will take a LOT of change in the codex for me to change my opinion on them and GW in general.
There is a lot of collaboration now between the testers and rules writers. This didn't exist prior to 8th. It gets a little better with each release. However, even with hundreds of testers (I don't know the exact number, but its impossible to have enough), the thousands of actual players will quickly find ways to exploit and loophole their way to maximum efficiency. It's just a numbers game. It's part of the reason they are now trying the "Beta" codex in CA for sisters. Trying to see if putting it out there to the overall community + testers + multiple teams of rules writers = a balanced system.
You realize right that playtesters themselves have said their role is less than players think?
We don#t live in utopia. Gw doesn't even want balance as it hurts their profits
Guyver 3 wrote: A crusader and a gallant both fully loaded with Melta and carapace weapons is cheaper than a single stompa!
Need I say more?
Stompas can benefit for Kustom Force Fields, and have a healthy perimeter of Boyz to prevent really nasty stuff assaulting them. They also block LoS for other units in their army really quite nicely. Ork armies tend to do pretty well when it comes down to Objectives. It can also be backed up with cheapo Deff Dredds and Kans.
Do you see the fundamental difference between the two armies yet?
For clarity. Nobody is saying the Stompa is correctly or fairly pointed. Just that comparing an Imperial Knight to a Stompa doesn’t work.
Knights have superior kff built in and can have healthy perimeter of ig. Point is? Stompa has inferior inv save and chaff? Makes stompa even worse.
As for the playtesters for our 8th edition codex. Well we don't know what the official verdict is yet and we don't even know what they have said beyond hearsay. But I have to tell you, so far the Ork playtesters are terrible in 8th and it will take a LOT of change in the codex for me to change my opinion on them and GW in general.
There is a lot of collaboration now between the testers and rules writers. This didn't exist prior to 8th. It gets a little better with each release. However, even with hundreds of testers (I don't know the exact number, but its impossible to have enough), the thousands of actual players will quickly find ways to exploit and loophole their way to maximum efficiency. It's just a numbers game. It's part of the reason they are now trying the "Beta" codex in CA for sisters. Trying to see if putting it out there to the overall community + testers + multiple teams of rules writers = a balanced system.
You realize right that playtesters themselves have said their role is less than players think?
We don#t live in utopia. Gw doesn't even want balance as it hurts their profits
thing is though, you would think they would want to know, roughly, where the balance is, if only so they can abuse that knowledge to make new models appealing
The mek shop looks nice, but it's a bit less of a model than I expected so to speak. I don't know why, but I imagined it more like a proper building. This looks cool but is not functional as terrain in 8th really (if the actual rules for the mek shop were to suck)
That Mek Shop is great. I hear the commentary about it not having a base and whatnot, I kinda feel like it's meant to 'plug in' with existing terrain to an extent.
PiñaColada wrote: The mek shop looks nice, but it's a bit less of a model than I expected so to speak. I don't know why, but I imagined it more like a proper building.
PiñaColada wrote: The mek shop looks nice, but it's a bit less of a model than I expected so to speak. I don't know why, but I imagined it more like a proper building. This looks cool but is not functional as terrain in 8th really (if the actual rules for the mek shop were to suck)
lord_blackfang wrote: So, those of you keeping track, which batch of rumours gets confrmed by the Mek shop and did they say anything else of note that we haven't seen yet?
Kirioth's video (which was already confirmed by the wartrike, scrapjet and squig-buggy) and just the clan traits haven't been confirmed by GW.
I don't know if we've seen the fluff of all the new buggies before. I think they just had the kustom boosta-blasta and the shokkjump dragsta in the warhammer community article. They're all good fun
Seems something missing from the mek shop, occurred to me (finally)
where is the mek? and also the grots?
would seem a perfect box to put a big-mek and some grot oilers in, either on the frames or as a separate frame, thus a mek/big mek in plastic available at last
I'm still confident we will see some plastic characters in this release. MA warboss for sure, probably a big mek with KFF, maybe a weirdboy or some special characters (Ghaz and Grotsnik being the most likely candidates).
Perfect Organism wrote: I'm still confident we will see some plastic characters in this release. MA warboss for sure, probably a big mek with KFF, maybe a weirdboy or some special characters (Ghaz and Grotsnik being the most likely candidates).
I hope you're right, but I suspect we've seen everything there is to see.
Perfect Organism wrote: I'm still confident we will see some plastic characters in this release. MA warboss for sure, probably a big mek with KFF, maybe a weirdboy or some special characters (Ghaz and Grotsnik being the most likely candidates).
Not to disappoint you but we won't. 4 plastic kits, a boxed game and a piece of scenery. We're done.
Afaik it's Blackstone fortress after Orks so don't be disappointed.
rollawaythestone wrote: There is already a Big Mek with Shokk Attak Gun in plastic, and isn't there a Mek in the Loota box?
There is a big mek with SAG, very nice he is too, and yes one in the loota box, just seems a missed chance to have a more configurable big mek and a few helpers actually included with the kit, heck even just a few grots would work, just looks empty without them
Perfect Organism wrote: I'm still confident we will see some plastic characters in this release. MA warboss for sure, probably a big mek with KFF, maybe a weirdboy or some special characters (Ghaz and Grotsnik being the most likely candidates).
Perfect Organism wrote: I'm still confident we will see some plastic characters in this release. MA warboss for sure, probably a big mek with KFF, maybe a weirdboy or some special characters (Ghaz and Grotsnik being the most likely candidates).
Your faith is misplaced. This is the release.
If this is all of it, we lost the kommandos since they are not in the on-line store anymore...
Perfect Organism wrote: I'm still confident we will see some plastic characters in this release. MA warboss for sure, probably a big mek with KFF, maybe a weirdboy or some special characters (Ghaz and Grotsnik being the most likely candidates).
Your faith is misplaced. This is the release.
If this is all of it, we lost the kommandos since they are not in the on-line store anymore...
Id guess 'Kommandos' are now whatever you spend the infiltrating stategem CP on.
Perfect Organism wrote: I'm still confident we will see some plastic characters in this release. MA warboss for sure, probably a big mek with KFF, maybe a weirdboy or some special characters (Ghaz and Grotsnik being the most likely candidates).
Not to disappoint you but we won't. 4 plastic kits, a boxed game and a piece of scenery. We're done.
Afaik it's Blackstone fortress after Orks so don't be disappointed.
The mega-armour warboss wasn't mentioned as being removed from the codex. It's pretty clear they are removing anything that doesn't have a model. They don't sell a mega-armour warboss. I don't see any practical way to kitbash one from existing kits. Given that, it seems extremely unlikely that there won't be a new kit for a MAWB.
Similar logic applies to the big mek without mega-armour or a shokk-attack gun, although they could just re-do the metal ones in finecast.
Also, how many releases have they done recently which don't include characters? The webway gate is the only one I can think of. Other than that, it's been years.
EDIT: never mind, the last point is irrelevant since we're getting a character in the form of the wartrike.
Speaking of Lootas, both them and Burna Boyz and Nobz are 'Sold Out - No Longer Available' on the US site while Ork Boyz are the same on the UK and Germany sites most likely for reboxing for 32mm bases. Still no sign of the Kommandos
Perfect Organism wrote: The mega-armour warboss wasn't mentioned as being removed from the codex. It's pretty clear they are removing anything that doesn't have a model. They don't sell a mega-armour warboss. I don't see any practical way to kitbash one from existing kits. Given that, it seems extremely unlikely that there won't be a new kit for a MAWB..
why would they mention removing anything from the codex? What could that possible get them except flakk? Of course they havent mentioned removing anything.
Perfect Organism wrote: The mega-armour warboss wasn't mentioned as being removed from the codex. It's pretty clear they are removing anything that doesn't have a model. They don't sell a mega-armour warboss. I don't see any practical way to kitbash one from existing kits. Given that, it seems extremely unlikely that there won't be a new kit for a MAWB..
why would they mention removing anything from the codex? What could that possible get them except flakk? Of course they havent mentioned removing anything.
We've had leaks, they mentioned that the big gunz are axed in the new codex (assuming they're true). I think the logic is, if they told us that, why not also say that the mega armour warboss is gone as well? I guess they could have just missed it
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: It would be really odd to add kommandoz to killteam and then axe the models though...
I think so as well
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Haighus wrote: I'd laugh if they did a stealth release of some new Kommandos. That would be funny. Unlikely at present, but funny.
Perfect Organism wrote: The mega-armour warboss wasn't mentioned as being removed from the codex. It's pretty clear they are removing anything that doesn't have a model. They don't sell a mega-armour warboss. I don't see any practical way to kitbash one from existing kits. Given that, it seems extremely unlikely that there won't be a new kit for a MAWB..
why would they mention removing anything from the codex? What could that possible get them except flakk? Of course they havent mentioned removing anything.
We've had leaks, they mentioned that the big gunz are axed in the new codex (assuming they're true). I think the logic is, if they told us that, why not also say that the mega armour warboss is gone as well? I guess they could have just missed it
They also told us the points drop for the battlewagon, and increase for boys.... But not for trukks lootas or deffkpotas... Lack of information is evidence of nothing unfortunately.
Perfect Organism wrote: I'm still confident we will see some plastic characters in this release. MA warboss for sure, probably a big mek with KFF, maybe a weirdboy or some special characters (Ghaz and Grotsnik being the most likely candidates).
Not to disappoint you but we won't. 4 plastic kits, a boxed game and a piece of scenery. We're done.
Afaik it's Blackstone fortress after Orks so don't be disappointed.
The mega-armour warboss wasn't mentioned as being removed from the codex. It's pretty clear they are removing anything that doesn't have a model. They don't sell a mega-armour warboss. I don't see any practical way to kitbash one from existing kits. Given that, it seems extremely unlikely that there won't be a new kit for a MAWB.
Similar logic applies to the big mek without mega-armour or a shokk-attack gun, although they could just re-do the metal ones in finecast.
Also, how many releases have they done recently which don't include characters? The webway gate is the only one I can think of. Other than that, it's been years.
EDIT: never mind, the last point is irrelevant since we're getting a character in the form of the wartrike.
Surely you can make a mega armour warboss from the nobz in mega armour kit?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: It would be really odd to add kommandoz to killteam and then axe the models though...
Assuming it’s not just a repackage to 32mm bases or something, that is.
Perfect Organism wrote: I'm still confident we will see some plastic characters in this release. MA warboss for sure, probably a big mek with KFF, maybe a weirdboy or some special characters (Ghaz and Grotsnik being the most likely candidates).
Not to disappoint you but we won't. 4 plastic kits, a boxed game and a piece of scenery. We're done.
Afaik it's Blackstone fortress after Orks so don't be disappointed.
The mega-armour warboss wasn't mentioned as being removed from the codex. It's pretty clear they are removing anything that doesn't have a model. They don't sell a mega-armour warboss. I don't see any practical way to kitbash one from existing kits. Given that, it seems extremely unlikely that there won't be a new kit for a MAWB.
Similar logic applies to the big mek without mega-armour or a shokk-attack gun, although they could just re-do the metal ones in finecast.
Also, how many releases have they done recently which don't include characters? The webway gate is the only one I can think of. Other than that, it's been years.
EDIT: never mind, the last point is irrelevant since we're getting a character in the form of the wartrike.
Surely you can make a mega armour warboss from the nobz in mega armour kit?
There's bits to make a Big Mek but none for a Warboss. If you'd want to convert one I'd start with the Ironjawz Megaboss.
Perfect Organism wrote: I'm still confident we will see some plastic characters in this release. MA warboss for sure, probably a big mek with KFF, maybe a weirdboy or some special characters (Ghaz and Grotsnik being the most likely candidates).
Not to disappoint you but we won't. 4 plastic kits, a boxed game and a piece of scenery. We're done.
Afaik it's Blackstone fortress after Orks so don't be disappointed.
The mega-armour warboss wasn't mentioned as being removed from the codex. It's pretty clear they are removing anything that doesn't have a model. They don't sell a mega-armour warboss. I don't see any practical way to kitbash one from existing kits. Given that, it seems extremely unlikely that there won't be a new kit for a MAWB.
Similar logic applies to the big mek without mega-armour or a shokk-attack gun, although they could just re-do the metal ones in finecast.
Also, how many releases have they done recently which don't include characters? The webway gate is the only one I can think of. Other than that, it's been years.
EDIT: never mind, the last point is irrelevant since we're getting a character in the form of the wartrike.
Surely you can make a mega armour warboss from the nobz in mega armour kit?
There's bits to make a Big Mek but none for a Warboss. If you'd want to convert one I'd start with the Ironjawz Megaboss.
Honestly, i know many people who just buy the kit and say one if the nobs with a pole is their warboss. They're about the same size as the current fine cast one.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw, what happened to the orginal Ork buggy community posts when they were leakeD. I swear there was something on the page that said there would be more than just vechiles for orks.
Only Kommandoes are a unit in Killteam. I don’t see them discontinuing the unit in 40k and leaving it in Killteam. That makes no sense at all.
So is the thought then that the different clan traits will function at a detachment level?
Perfect Organism wrote: I'm still confident we will see some plastic characters in this release. MA warboss for sure, probably a big mek with KFF, maybe a weirdboy or some special characters (Ghaz and Grotsnik being the most likely candidates).
Not to disappoint you but we won't. 4 plastic kits, a boxed game and a piece of scenery. We're done.
Afaik it's Blackstone fortress after Orks so don't be disappointed.
The mega-armour warboss wasn't mentioned as being removed from the codex. It's pretty clear they are removing anything that doesn't have a model. They don't sell a mega-armour warboss. I don't see any practical way to kitbash one from existing kits. Given that, it seems extremely unlikely that there won't be a new kit for a MAWB.
Similar logic applies to the big mek without mega-armour or a shokk-attack gun, although they could just re-do the metal ones in finecast.
Also, how many releases have they done recently which don't include characters? The webway gate is the only one I can think of. Other than that, it's been years.
EDIT: never mind, the last point is irrelevant since we're getting a character in the form of the wartrike.
Surely you can make a mega armour warboss from the nobz in mega armour kit?
There's bits to make a Big Mek but none for a Warboss. If you'd want to convert one I'd start with the Ironjawz Megaboss.
Honestly, i know many people who just buy the kit and say one if the nobs with a pole is their warboss. They're about the same size as the current fine cast one.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw, what happened to the orginal Ork buggy community posts when they were leakeD. I swear there was something on the page that said there would be more than just vechiles for orks.
iirc it was from a quote during NOVA. Let me see if I can find it...
Perfect Organism wrote: I'm still confident we will see some plastic characters in this release. MA warboss for sure, probably a big mek with KFF, maybe a weirdboy or some special characters (Ghaz and Grotsnik being the most likely candidates).
Not to disappoint you but we won't. 4 plastic kits, a boxed game and a piece of scenery. We're done.
Afaik it's Blackstone fortress after Orks so don't be disappointed.
The mega-armour warboss wasn't mentioned as being removed from the codex. It's pretty clear they are removing anything that doesn't have a model. They don't sell a mega-armour warboss. I don't see any practical way to kitbash one from existing kits. Given that, it seems extremely unlikely that there won't be a new kit for a MAWB.
Similar logic applies to the big mek without mega-armour or a shokk-attack gun, although they could just re-do the metal ones in finecast.
Also, how many releases have they done recently which don't include characters? The webway gate is the only one I can think of. Other than that, it's been years.
EDIT: never mind, the last point is irrelevant since we're getting a character in the form of the wartrike.
Surely you can make a mega armour warboss from the nobz in mega armour kit?
There's bits to make a Big Mek but none for a Warboss. If you'd want to convert one I'd start with the Ironjawz Megaboss.
Honestly, i know many people who just buy the kit and say one if the nobs with a pole is their warboss. They're about the same size as the current fine cast one.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw, what happened to the orginal Ork buggy community posts when they were leakeD. I swear there was something on the page that said there would be more than just vechiles for orks.
iirc it was from a quote during NOVA. Let me see if I can find it...
That's the qoute I was looking for... maybe they did mean in the bix (even though all vechiles can be used in the speed freaks game). Geuss we will have to wait and see.
Perfect Organism wrote: I'm still confident we will see some plastic characters in this release. MA warboss for sure, probably a big mek with KFF, maybe a weirdboy or some special characters (Ghaz and Grotsnik being the most likely candidates).
Not to disappoint you but we won't. 4 plastic kits, a boxed game and a piece of scenery. We're done.
Afaik it's Blackstone fortress after Orks so don't be disappointed.
The mega-armour warboss wasn't mentioned as being removed from the codex. It's pretty clear they are removing anything that doesn't have a model. They don't sell a mega-armour warboss. I don't see any practical way to kitbash one from existing kits. Given that, it seems extremely unlikely that there won't be a new kit for a MAWB.
Similar logic applies to the big mek without mega-armour or a shokk-attack gun, although they could just re-do the metal ones in finecast.
Also, how many releases have they done recently which don't include characters? The webway gate is the only one I can think of. Other than that, it's been years.
EDIT: never mind, the last point is irrelevant since we're getting a character in the form of the wartrike.
Surely you can make a mega armour warboss from the nobz in mega armour kit?
There's bits to make a Big Mek but none for a Warboss. If you'd want to convert one I'd start with the Ironjawz Megaboss.
Honestly, i know many people who just buy the kit and say one if the nobs with a pole is their warboss. They're about the same size as the current fine cast one.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw, what happened to the orginal Ork buggy community posts when they were leakeD. I swear there was something on the page that said there would be more than just vechiles for orks.
iirc it was from a quote during NOVA. Let me see if I can find it...
That's the qoute I was looking for... maybe they did mean in the bix (even though all vechiles can be used in the speed freaks game). Geuss we will have to wait and see.
They also all have the speed freeks keyword. Maybe they mean the mek shop (although they'd have to know that wouldn't please people) or maybe there's a surprise next sunday with new preorders. Most likely they just meant the box
TedNugent wrote: Even as someone skeptical about buggies, and similarly disappointed by kit updates, you have to admit that those buggies are amazing sculpts, totally unexpected, with flavorful rules, and a new specialty game they can be played in that is 100% Ork themed.
It's not gorkamorka, but. It's not exzoggly a kick in da teef.
yeah... flavored rules... unless most of em are unter 70points i dont see any point in fielding them...
if points drop for battlewagon are true... why bother with a 100+ points squigbuggy when for the same cost i can field a frikkin battlewagon?
the only thing i am considering fielding are the jump dragsta and the scrap jet.
the rest is kinda meh...
s4 ignoring cover grenades? meeeehhhh
three scores of dice to clear out 2 marines per turn...? ultra mehhh
btw
Spoiler:
F*** YOU GW
oh and there actually is a warboss in megaarmour model... ghazzy himself.
Anyone been testing out any of the rules yet? The dragster is a stand out so far in our leak rumor test games. (and crazy fun)
Trike warboss needs some work (zhards seems a better choice if you don't need the aura).
Rivet buggy is odd without a CC weapon, but wants to ram things.
Dragster has a CC weapon, but you don't want it in CC.
Trike boss weapons are so short range, by the time you are in range to use them, you were going to charge anyway, so firing at your target could reduce your charge distance. Claw should be str 8 to do a better range of damage. Hoping for relics to change up his CC profile.
I mean have I've been cheating when I played our warboss on bike as base strength 6? Because otherwise, according to the rumor, the deffkilla wartrike warboss is weaker than him at base strength 5. I find that to be pretty crappy if true
H.B.M.C. wrote: Mek Shakk is smaller than I thought it'd be.
I was hoping for modular ork terrain, a sort of sector orkalis, but any Xenos terrain is appreciated. I like the Mek shop, and love the scatter scrap piles in speed freeks.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Mek Shakk is smaller than I thought it'd be.
I was hoping for modular ork terrain, a sort of sector orkalis, but any Xenos terrain is appreciated. I like the Mek shop, and love the scatter scrap piles in speed freeks.
I think with the Scatter, this thing, and my 2 pieces of Kromlech terrain I have almost enough for an Ork killzone.
ImAGeek wrote: Surely you can make a mega armour warboss from the nobz in mega armour kit?
That would be tiny MA warboss though. Not sure but wouldn't regular warboss be notably bigger than the MA warboss? Mega armoured nobs are...well NOBS sized which are tiny compared to warboss. Plus there's literally nothing to identify warboss from nob. No fancy head, no fancy weapon, nothing. Warboss would look identical with nob...Which means GW is super unlikely to consider that as MA warboss kit.
mortar_crew wrote: Stupid question but do we know if the regular buggies are still in the list?
Gone to the realm of index. Best you can hope for those is point drops to their weapons in codex. Other than that they will remain as they were in index.
mortar_crew wrote: Stupid question but do we know if the regular buggies are still in the list?
Gone to the realm of index. Best you can hope for those is point drops to their weapons in codex. Other than that they will remain as they were in index.
Yeah, but a regular buggy is 43 points after the first CA. and that's witha twin big shoota which GW thought was worth 10 points. If that weapon were to be dropped to a humane price they could actually be good.. Especially if they get dakkadakkadakka and the speedfreeks keyword added in. I doubt that'll happen because why would they significantly buff a model they don't sell anymore but those buggies in the high 30's would be a neat little annoyance
RedNoak wrote: [quote=TedNugent 762091 10197817 6544bae63fe11a66b6597a7a08e2d56a.jpg three scores of dice to clear out 2 marines per turn...? ultra mehhh
btw
Spoiler:
F*** YOU GW
Yes, he did that in the 4th ed codex, what's the problem? Its not as if he just punched it in the leg and it went down. He crashed through the cockpit and nearly got incinerated by the void shields for his troubles.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yes, he did that in the 4th ed codex, what's the problem?
Its not as if he just punched it in the leg and it went down. He crashed through the cockpit and nearly got incinerated by the void shields for his troubles.
Ugh who wrote that piece anyway? If the thing had void shields up he wouldn't have been able to get there. As long as void shields are up it's 100% impenetrable. Even if he was last straw that burned shields down that would result in such an explosion he would be flung far away so at best he would need to pick himself up and make another run.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yes, he did that in the 4th ed codex, what's the problem?
Its not as if he just punched it in the leg and it went down. He crashed through the cockpit and nearly got incinerated by the void shields for his troubles.
Ugh who wrote that piece anyway? If the thing had void shields up he wouldn't have been able to get there. As long as void shields are up it's 100% impenetrable. Even if he was last straw that burned shields down that would result in such an explosion he would be flung far away so at best he would need to pick himself up and make another run.
there are other instances in the fluff about units bypassing void shields to take out titans.
regardless void shields in the fluff for 40k are not impenetrable, they can be configured to be solid, but often are not so that they can actually move around without their void shields (which extend out tens of meters) knocking things out of the way and getting stuck against buildings etc.
RedNoak wrote: [quote=TedNugent 762091 10197817 6544bae63fe11a66b6597a7a08e2d56a.jpg
three scores of dice to clear out 2 marines per turn...? ultra mehhh
btw
Spoiler:
F*** YOU GW
Yes, he did that in the 4th ed codex, what's the problem?
Its not as if he just punched it in the leg and it went down. He crashed through the cockpit and nearly got incinerated by the void shields for his troubles.
the fact that they ditched him! and now they are rubbing it in our face
i want him back, not that puny zhadgit wannabe wazzdakka... you cant call yourself a proper bikerboss without attaching 4 rocketlaunchers to ya bike
Ai, he originally had mega armour and a battlecannon.
He's never has a model, won't happen now. Not for a long time. At least unlike in fantasy he still got exists unlike virtually every character with 20 years of fantasy history...
By now, Wazzdakka is an Ork legend - it's irrelevant whether or not he !actually" destroyed a titan by himself, whether the void shield magic would allow that to happen or whatever else. he's the mythical prophet of speed - so fast that no matter how fast a wagon you build, he's always over the next hill. The ambition of all speed freeks is to be fast enough to catch up to him; an ambition that's as achievable as having "enuff dakka".
I can imagine some nice conversion of the wartrike to make it look like it's driven by the boss, with the big gun of the current driver in his left hand ...
It all depends really. We have the remember how the Ork waaagh works. It isn't magical to the point an Ork can pick up a stick and throw it at a titan to take it out but it is enough to bend reality just for a moment to turn the tides of battle (like a command reroll). Most likely, a good excuse is that his emotions were so high (combined with the emotions of all his speed freaks) that together they combined so he believed he could get through the void shields. Then this waagh power protected him just enough to get through and smash into the cockpit.
Orks have been previously described as being able to survive teleportation beams that humans and elder need heavy shielding to survive (like terminator armour), and have sufficiently resilient physiology that they can be decapitated in an explosion and have the surviving head grafted on to another body. Even if passing through a titan's void shields is enough to cause heavy trauma (which is something unsupported by the setting), it's not too surprising that an Ork boss would survive long enough to pass through them, crash into the cockpit and kill the princeps and moderati there.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Orks have been previously described as being able to survive teleportation beams that humans and elder need heavy shielding to survive (like terminator armour), and have sufficiently resilient physiology that they can be decapitated in an explosion and have the surviving head grafted on to another body. Even if passing through a titan's void shields is enough to cause heavy trauma (which is something unsupported by the setting), it's not too surprising that an Ork boss would survive long enough to pass through them, crash into the cockpit and kill the princeps and moderati there.
It's not "heavy trauma". It's "bloink" and bouncing back. Those shields are strong enough to stop blast from spaceship. Blink. As it is regardless of what munition spaceship would throw at the titan it wouldn't even skorch the paint.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yes, he did that in the 4th ed codex, what's the problem?
Its not as if he just punched it in the leg and it went down. He crashed through the cockpit and nearly got incinerated by the void shields for his troubles.
Ugh who wrote that piece anyway? If the thing had void shields up he wouldn't have been able to get there. As long as void shields are up it's 100% impenetrable. Even if he was last straw that burned shields down that would result in such an explosion he would be flung far away so at best he would need to pick himself up and make another run.
Niexist wrote: People saying void shields are 100% impenetrable don't understand the Gestalt field.
Void shields ARE impenetrable to one attack. That's how it works. How you get through them is wear them down by multiple hits of sufficient strenght. Until that happens nothing goes through. And once shield goes down it goes BOOM so basically for a while there's huge explosion throwing anything away or just blowing it up so you need to wait for that to end before you get to hit the (now shieldless) target.
Throw up biggest nuke you can find at a titan and if it's got shields up that titan won't even get paint skorched. Now big pile of nukes in series of attacks we are talking.
Voidshields also only appear to work against high velocity impacts - otherwise a Titan wouldn’t be be able to traverse terrain.
Agreed. Against high velocity attacks, it can repel them, but an Ork on a bike? Could probably slip through.
I don't think I've ever heard of void shields on a Titan being described as a wall of force that NOTHING can get through. In this way, I rather imagine it like "the slow blade penetrates the shield", or the Holtzman effect.
Given that you can just walk through a void shield like it’s nothing and, if you’re something like an imperial knight, start sawing at it’s legs, I would assume “nearly got incinerated by the void shields” means he was bordering on going fast enough to be repelled, but lucked out and was just slow enough to pass.
Don't think i had read that on the forum but yesterday the french streamer who told many things about the orks just played a game with the new codex and on his stream just show us his army. (not the full game)
He said he wasn't allowed to tell anything about the codex but when he listed all his unit: "...and a big mek in mega nobz armour with kustom force field" and just after that "and here a unit of mek gunz which are considered like one unit at the deployment and must be deployed at 6" and a "mega dakka jet just here".
Don't know if it s 100 percent true because he already made some mistakes with names/equipment before but the guy is usually reliable.
The video is on facebook (FrenchWargameStudio) and may be uploaded on youtube idk.
Voidshields also only appear to work against high velocity impacts - otherwise a Titan wouldn’t be be able to traverse terrain.
Agreed. Against high velocity attacks, it can repel them, but an Ork on a bike? Could probably slip through.
I don't think I've ever heard of void shields on a Titan being described as a wall of force that NOTHING can get through. In this way, I rather imagine it like "the slow blade penetrates the shield", or the Holtzman effect.
So, in this sense, void shields operate much like custard or corn starch...
Voidshields also only appear to work against high velocity impacts - otherwise a Titan wouldn’t be be able to traverse terrain.
Agreed. Against high velocity attacks, it can repel them, but an Ork on a bike? Could probably slip through.
I don't think I've ever heard of void shields on a Titan being described as a wall of force that NOTHING can get through. In this way, I rather imagine it like "the slow blade penetrates the shield", or the Holtzman effect.
A fan of the Dune series? I liked the way that world implements 'personal force fields' during close combat, requiring specifically timed motions and their interaction with lasers I've always imagined 40k to be similar, hence why even the most heavily armoured or shielded unit can still be penetrated by attacks. Can see this represented on the table with invuln saves.
Just saying 'This force field stops absolutely everything from passing and provides total invulnerability' seems very primary school playground argument to me, also a hell of a Deus ex Machina even for 40k.
now you can handwave that they are not solid from the rear but missiles coming out of the shield will hit that awkard point when they've just passed though and their rocket exhaust will be totally reflected back into the missle destroying it at worst or knocking it off course at best
so another point of evidence that they aren't solid all the time
Voidshields also only appear to work against high velocity impacts - otherwise a Titan wouldn’t be be able to traverse terrain.
Agreed. Against high velocity attacks, it can repel them, but an Ork on a bike? Could probably slip through.
I don't think I've ever heard of void shields on a Titan being described as a wall of force that NOTHING can get through. In this way, I rather imagine it like "the slow blade penetrates the shield", or the Holtzman effect.
So, in this sense, void shields operate much like custard or corn starch...
It's a standard sci-fi trope. Large ships with some sort of shields that let landing ships through but not bullets, so the hero uses this to sneak a special ops team through, or the like.
But I like the idea of an Ork Mek explaining it like custard.
"How da zog do we kill that 'umie stompa when da big dakka won't urt it?"
"Well boss, you remember the time Snikbob got dead angry at 'is squig custard and 'it it and broke 'is hand?"
I think this release gives ORKS everything they need. New buggies. I would have preferred them to handled differently but I’m still made up. Things like kommandos and tank bustas aren’t in need of plastic kits as they are supposed to niche units not mainstays that power gamers use them as. I have as many of them as I do Burnaz and lootas that have plastic kits and do just fine. One thing I think hey should have done is clan themed dice. I’d have snapped that gak up.
Voidshields also only appear to work against high velocity impacts - otherwise a Titan wouldn’t be be able to traverse terrain.
Agreed. Against high velocity attacks, it can repel them, but an Ork on a bike? Could probably slip through.
I don't think I've ever heard of void shields on a Titan being described as a wall of force that NOTHING can get through. In this way, I rather imagine it like "the slow blade penetrates the shield", or the Holtzman effect.
So, in this sense, void shields operate much like custard or corn starch...
It's a standard sci-fi trope. Large ships with some sort of shields that let landing ships through but not bullets, so the hero uses this to sneak a special ops team through, or the like.
But I like the idea of an Ork Mek explaining it like custard.
"How da zog do we kill that 'umie stompa when da big dakka won't urt it?"
"Well boss, you remember the time Snikbob got dead angry at 'is squig custard and 'it it and broke 'is hand?"
"Ye. It was zoggin hilarious!".
Thank you. Lovely to visit dakka and laugh rather than feeling I wish I hadn't bothered.
It means they’ve always got a chance to hit, which is an improvement.
If you’re fielding a horde or two of Shoota Boyz, that definitely helps, because they can kick out a ridiculous amount of shots.
It’s by no means game breaking or game winning, but when you look at the various ways opponents can stack up -2 to hit, its definitely welcome. Every little helps!
epicbreck wrote: I think the new dakka dakka dakka rule will be great, as it compensates for the ork's terrible accuracy
Is it that good really, doesn't it only work out like an extra hit for every 18 shots fired?
If you go strictly by averages, yes. Dice don't care about averages in practice though. The fact they always hit on a 6 is nice too, as that means they won't get hurt too bad if they run into a -2 hit mod. Which is possible, just rare.
I also like it because it makes Orks quite unpredictable.
I know that’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but it’s inkeeping with the army. Any opponent fixated on pure number crunching could well be caught with their pants down. It doesn’t take a massive switch from exact average to turn out some spectacular dice, and unexpected damage.
Now the effectiveness is of course going to depend on the target. I dare say Marines and their equivalent aren’t too worried by it, as jammy rolling for hits needs to be met with no luck rolling for saves. But, against Eldar, Guard and even Fire Warriors, those extra hits might be seriously worrying. Particularly when you figure in Battleshock.
After all, with Battleshock, even a single wound over the Ld tipping point can pay dividends. Bag two or three over that tipping point, and that’s the difference between having to worry about under strength squads being a nuisance, and the whole lot coming off the board.
Don't think i had read that on the forum but yesterday the french streamer who told many things about the orks just played a game with the new codex and on his stream just show us his army. (not the full game)
He said he wasn't allowed to tell anything about the codex but when he listed all his unit: "...and a big mek in mega nobz armour with kustom force field" and just after that "and here a unit of mek gunz which are considered like one unit at the deployment and must be deployed at 6" and a "mega dakka jet just here".
Don't know if it s 100 percent true because he already made some mistakes with names/equipment before but the guy is usually reliable.
The video is on facebook (FrenchWargameStudio) and may be uploaded on youtube idk.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I was at a huge apocalypse style game of pure Orks at this weekends warhammer world and we used dakka dakka. It's interesting... honestly didn't do anything much for me (one time my 1 rockett turned into 2 rocketts... so that was kinda cool but not game changing). But some people had some pretty good success. One guy rolled like 10 6s with his lootas I think.
ImAGeek wrote: Surely you can make a mega armour warboss from the nobz in mega armour kit?
That would be tiny MA warboss though. Not sure but wouldn't regular warboss be notably bigger than the MA warboss? Mega armoured nobs are...well NOBS sized which are tiny compared to warboss. Plus there's literally nothing to identify warboss from nob. No fancy head, no fancy weapon, nothing. Warboss would look identical with nob...Which means GW is super unlikely to consider that as MA warboss kit.
I made my MA warboss from the mega boss Age of Sigmar ironjawz.
Dakka rule isn't great simply because of Ork hit rates. They only hit on 5s or 6s. So you have to hit essentially on a 6, then a 5 or a 6.
E.g. the probability of a second hit is in the single digits.
That's a lot of overcomplication in your dice rolling for a very low output. When you start putting that into practice, game after game, the annoyance of the multiple failures and additional dice rolls will substantially outweigh the successes.
TedNugent wrote: Dakka rule isn't great simply because of Ork hit rates. They only hit on 5s or 6s. So you have to hit essentially on a 6, then a 5 or a 6.
E.g. the probability of a second hit is in the single digits.
That's a lot of overcomplication in your dice rolling for a very low output. When you start putting that into practice, game after game, the annoyance of the multiple failures and additional dice rolls will substantially outweigh the successes.
Its no more complicated than rerolls. Just pick up the misses for every 6 and roll them. Its the same physical process as a reroll. Different condition, same execution.
Don't think i had read that on the forum but yesterday the french streamer who told many things about the orks just played a game with the new codex and on his stream just show us his army. (not the full game)
He said he wasn't allowed to tell anything about the codex but when he listed all his unit: "...and a big mek in mega nobz armour with kustom force field" and just after that "and here a unit of mek gunz which are considered like one unit at the deployment and must be deployed at 6" and a "mega dakka jet just here".
Don't know if it s 100 percent true because he already made some mistakes with names/equipment before but the guy is usually reliable.
The video is on facebook (FrenchWargameStudio) and may be uploaded on youtube idk.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I was at a huge apocalypse style game of pure Orks at this weekends warhammer world and we used dakka dakka. It's interesting... honestly didn't do anything much for me (one time my 1 rockett turned into 2 rocketts... so that was kinda cool but not game changing). But some people had some pretty good success. One guy rolled like 10 6s with his lootas I think.
They still aren't allowed to give information about orks. Its just a short form battle report list. Not a report, just the list
He skipped the rest, but there appears to be 3 robots, 3 striders and 3 dragoons.
Orks
20 gretchin 28 shoota boyz Waaagh Banner Painboy Big Mek in Meganobz armor with KFF Weirdboy 10 gretchin 5 mek gunz. He said something about them here, but I couldn't catch it, he mumbled it a bit Mega Dakka jet 30 slugga (?) boyz Gorkanaut, which can apparently deepstrike now.
The rest is basically about subscribing to them to see it in action.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vineheart01 wrote: just dont forget those were additional roles if you have rerolls, because you can still reroll the new hit rolls.
Yep, it doesn't count as a reroll, so it can stack. So you can generate even more attacks. Not bad for a free ability.
Did they state how many points they played? Just quick maths on that admech list puts it around 1300 with base equipment, assuming you mean a tech priest dominus when you said magos and not an enginseer, then it could be 1250
Edit: Huh, I thought you said 2x2 striders and 2 robots. Without that info it's difficult to guess
PiñaColada wrote: Did they state how many points they played? Just quick maths on that admech list puts it around 1300 with base equipment, assuming you mean a tech priest dominus when you said magos and not an enginseer, then it could be 1250
Edit: Huh, I thought you said 2x2 striders and 2 robots. Without that info it's difficult to guess
That's what I said at first, but then I saw he more robots and striders than that.
Eyeballing it it looks like 3 robots and 3 striders and 3 dragoons? Dunno what they have though. The destroyers have grav cannons something blasters I think.
Which one is the small dude with the axe? Because that's what the model looks like. The ad mech player said it was cheap and its just to hold the objective.
I don't think they actually called it anything. His opponent just called it an Orphelin, which just means orphan, referencing the fact that the character was off in the corner, away from anything else.
Spees Freeks box is now set for preorder BUT I just noticed that I won't be able to paint the Boosta-blasta with flames on the hood: it doesn't have one, it's all engine. Crap. Must've misremembered/mixed it up with the car I wanted to base the paintjob on.
I won some kila kanz and stuff for 15€ on ebay earlier, how are those currently? The old joke about dreadnaughts on skates comes to mind when thinking about kanz in a speed waagh, but, hey, maybe they WILL have skates
Automatically Appended Next Post: I was at a huge apocalypse style game of pure Orks at this weekends warhammer world and we used dakka dakka. It's interesting... honestly didn't do anything much for me (one time my 1 rockett turned into 2 rocketts... so that was kinda cool but not game changing). But some people had some pretty good success. One guy rolled like 10 6s with his lootas I think.
They still aren't allowed to give information about orks. Its just a short form battle report list. Not a report, just the list
Orks
20 gretchin 28 shoota boyz Waaagh Banner Painboy Big Mek in Meganobz armor with KFF Weirdboy 10 gretchin 5 mek gunz. He said something about them here, but I couldn't catch it, he mumbled it a bit Mega Dakka jet 30 slugga (?) boyz Gorkanaut, which can apparently deepstrike now.
The rest is basically about subscribing to them to see it in action.
there were also some bikers on the field... i guess he was playing 4 warbikes and the new trike
my estimates (including conservative wargear) is about 1727 points (index)
Spoiler:
Big Mek in Mega Armour, Kustom Force field + Kustom mega-blasta, Power Klaw Wyrdboy Warboss on Warbike, Attack squig + Power klaw
28 Boyz, 24 x Choppa & Slugga, 1 x Shoota, 2 x Big shoota + Boss Nob, Shoota, Power klaw 30 Boyz, 28 x Choppa & Slugga, 1 x Shoota + Boss Nob, Shoota, Power klaw 20 Gretchin 10 Gretchin
Nob with Waaagh! Banner Painboy, Grot orderly + Power Klaw
4 Warbikers + , Slugga, Power klaw
Gorkanaut 5 Mek Gunz, 5 x Kustom mega-kannon
Dakkajet, 6 supa shootas
maybe an admech player can give us an estimate for their forces?
either they are playing a 1750 - 1850 points game, which would be shocking :( or 1500ish which would be kinda nice or he's playing nob bikes on 1750-1850 which would be ok -.-
Binabik15 wrote: Spees Freeks box is now set for preorder BUT I just noticed that I won't be able to paint the Boosta-blasta with flames on the hood: it doesn't have one, it's all engine. Crap. Must've misremembered/mixed it up with the car I wanted to base the paintjob on.
I won some kila kanz and stuff for 15€ on ebay earlier, how are those currently? The old joke about dreadnaughts on skates comes to mind when thinking about kanz in a speed waagh, but, hey, maybe they WILL have skates
PS: also losing on some Kommados, not cool.
Kanz are probably one of the better units in the index, which doesn't mean much though. Assuming they get better and/or cheaper they are decent units for sitting on a forward objective and shooting missiles from there.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I was at a huge apocalypse style game of pure Orks at this weekends warhammer world and we used dakka dakka. It's interesting... honestly didn't do anything much for me (one time my 1 rockett turned into 2 rocketts... so that was kinda cool but not game changing). But some people had some pretty good success. One guy rolled like 10 6s with his lootas I think.
They still aren't allowed to give information about orks.
Its just a short form battle report list. Not a report, just the list
Orks
20 gretchin
28 shoota boyz
Waaagh Banner
Painboy
Big Mek in Meganobz armor with KFF Weirdboy
10 gretchin
5 mek gunz. He said something about them here, but I couldn't catch it, he mumbled it a bit
Mega Dakka jet
30 slugga (?) boyz
Gorkanaut, which can apparently deepstrike now.
The rest is basically about subscribing to them to see it in action.
there were also some bikers on the field... i guess he was playing 4 warbikes and the new trike
my estimates (including conservative wargear) is about 1727 points (index)
Spoiler:
Big Mek in Mega Armour, Kustom Force field
+ Kustom mega-blasta, Power Klaw
Wyrdboy
Warboss on Warbike, Attack squig
+ Power klaw
28 Boyz, 24 x Choppa & Slugga, 1 x Shoota, 2 x Big shoota
+ Boss Nob, Shoota, Power klaw
30 Boyz, 28 x Choppa & Slugga, 1 x Shoota
+ Boss Nob, Shoota, Power klaw
20 Gretchin
10 Gretchin
Nob with Waaagh! Banner
Painboy, Grot orderly
+ Power Klaw
4 Warbikers
+ , Slugga, Power klaw
Gorkanaut
5 Mek Gunz, 5 x Kustom mega-kannon
Dakkajet, 6 supa shootas
maybe an admech player can give us an estimate for their forces?
either they are playing a 1750 - 1850 points game, which would be shocking :(
or 1500ish which would be kinda nice or he's playing nob bikes on 1750-1850 which would be ok -.-
Ah, so there are. He did not point those out, so either he forgot or there is something new about them, that they'll only reveal to their subscribers or something.
Power Field. 2+ Invulnerable in 2nd Ed, but not in HTH.
Displacer Field. 3+ Invulnerable in 2nd Ed, all the time. But, it caused you scatter around the board.
Conversion Field. 4+ Invulnerable in 2nd Ed. When a save was passed, caused a blinding flash, which affected all within range.
Refractor Field. 5+ Invulnerable in 2nd Ed. But, you couldn’t Hide your model (a mechanic back then), because it had a distinct, visible halo.
There were others, but those were race specific and I can’t recall them properly, having played solely Dark Angels in that era.
IIRC in 1st edition, power fields made the bearer completely invincible, but you couldn't shoot out - you needed to switch it off for a turn. Later they introduced a synchroniser, which allowed you to fire without dropping the shield for a whole turn, but at a cost of allowing enemy fire through 1/6 of the time (i.e. becoming a 2+ unmodified save).
In Epic, power fields couldn't be raised once knocked down, unlike void shields. They were almost exclusively used by Orks, IIRC.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I was at a huge apocalypse style game of pure Orks at this weekends warhammer world and we used dakka dakka. It's interesting... honestly didn't do anything much for me (one time my 1 rockett turned into 2 rocketts... so that was kinda cool but not game changing). But some people had some pretty good success. One guy rolled like 10 6s with his lootas I think.
They still aren't allowed to give information about orks.
Its just a short form battle report list. Not a report, just the list
Orks
20 gretchin
28 shoota boyz
Waaagh Banner
Painboy
Big Mek in Meganobz armor with KFF Weirdboy
10 gretchin
5 mek gunz. He said something about them here, but I couldn't catch it, he mumbled it a bit
Mega Dakka jet
30 slugga (?) boyz
Gorkanaut, which can apparently deepstrike now.
The rest is basically about subscribing to them to see it in action.
there were also some bikers on the field... i guess he was playing 4 warbikes and the new trike
my estimates (including conservative wargear) is about 1727 points (index)
Spoiler:
Big Mek in Mega Armour, Kustom Force field
+ Kustom mega-blasta, Power Klaw
Wyrdboy
Warboss on Warbike, Attack squig
+ Power klaw
28 Boyz, 24 x Choppa & Slugga, 1 x Shoota, 2 x Big shoota
+ Boss Nob, Shoota, Power klaw
30 Boyz, 28 x Choppa & Slugga, 1 x Shoota
+ Boss Nob, Shoota, Power klaw
20 Gretchin
10 Gretchin
Nob with Waaagh! Banner
Painboy, Grot orderly
+ Power Klaw
4 Warbikers
+ , Slugga, Power klaw
Gorkanaut
5 Mek Gunz, 5 x Kustom mega-kannon
Dakkajet, 6 supa shootas
maybe an admech player can give us an estimate for their forces?
either they are playing a 1750 - 1850 points game, which would be shocking :(
or 1500ish which would be kinda nice or he's playing nob bikes on 1750-1850 which would be ok -.-
From what i see on the adeptus mechanicus list it's 1500.
Ah, so there are. He did not point those out, so either he forgot or there is something new about them, that they'll only reveal to their subscribers or something.
It's not about subscription to his channel, everything is avaible for free on youtube/facebook.
The battle report was recorded yesterday only to be able to release it on the youtube channel the day of the pre-order of the Ork codex.
Until that day he is not allowed to tell anything explicit, but i think he is allowed to tease some things like his army composition, the fact that he is putting the gorkanaut in reserve, etc...
Ah, so there are. He did not point those out, so either he forgot or there is something new about them, that they'll only reveal to their subscribers or something.
It's not about subscription to his channel, everything is avaible for free on youtube/facebook.
The battle report was recorded yesterday only to be able to release it on the youtube channel the day of the pre-order of the Ork codex.
Until that day he is not allowed to tell anything explicit, but i think he is allowed to tease some things like his army composition, the fact that he is putting the gorkanaut in reserve, etc...
Yeah, that Gorkanaut thing was a surprise. I bet its going to be a stratagem, like what the necrons can do with their infantry.
Probably some sort of teleporta thing.
Okay so I clicked on the video to try and suss out the admech costs. Since they are one of my two main armies I should be able to do this
Some angles might not help out in guessing and specific wargear might be tough
Cawl - 240
8 rangers - 56
3 dragoons - 204
2 Balistarii w/ lascannons - 190
3 Kastelans - 330
Enginseer - 47
I think it's 2x3 Kataphron breachers with torsion cannons - 324
I think there's 2 other blobs of 5 rangers - 70
There's also 9 infiltrators off the board - 198
This is a rough estimate but all that would add up to 1659 points. Maybe I screwed up somewhere and it's 1650 or it could easily be 1750 if I missed a unit
Edit: Through leaks we already "knew" that we could deepstrike the orkanauts. It's the tellyport stratagem which lets you deepstrike a unit with a PL of less than 20
PiñaColada wrote: Okay so I clicked on the video to try and suss out the admech costs. Since they are one of my two main armies I should be able to do this
Some angles might not help out in guessing and specific wargear might be tough
Cawl - 240
8 rangers - 56
3 dragoons - 204
2 Balistarii w/ lascannons - 190
3 Kastelans - 330
Enginseer - 47
I think it's 2x3 Kataphron breachers with torsion cannons - 324
I think there's tow other blobs of 5 rangers - 70
There's also 9 infiltrators off the board - 198
This is a rough estimate but all that would add up to 1659 points. Maybe I screwed up somewhere and it's 1650 or it could easily be 1750 if I missed a unit
Edit: Through leaks we already "knew" that we could deepstrike the orkanauts. It's the tellyport stratagem which lets you deepstrike a unit with a PL of less than 20
I think he said 3 destroyers had gravitons and another 3 had blasters? Whatever Eclateurs are in English. I don't know Ad Mech options that well.
I think you're missing a strider too, and I think he said he had 2 units of 10 rangers.
PiñaColada wrote: Okay so I clicked on the video to try and suss out the admech costs. Since they are one of my two main armies I should be able to do this
Some angles might not help out in guessing and specific wargear might be tough
Cawl - 240
8 rangers - 56
3 dragoons - 204
2 Balistarii w/ lascannons - 190
3 Kastelans - 330
Enginseer - 47
I think it's 2x3 Kataphron breachers with torsion cannons - 324
I think there's tow other blobs of 5 rangers - 70
There's also 9 infiltrators off the board - 198
This is a rough estimate but all that would add up to 1659 points. Maybe I screwed up somewhere and it's 1650 or it could easily be 1750 if I missed a unit
Edit: Through leaks we already "knew" that we could deepstrike the orkanauts. It's the tellyport stratagem which lets you deepstrike a unit with a PL of less than 20
You are right about 1750, he just answered my comment on the video.
They're a bit overcosted at the moment. They have big morale issues (low LD), so don't take too many in a group. If taken a mass of them, need to baby sit with warboss (prevents morale loss) and waaagh banner (so they hit on 4+ in CC). When rokkit buggies got cheaper, dropped the kans and started taking them instead.
Okay cool, it's 1750. Because getting closer in guesstimation than that is difficult. Especially if they have incorrectly modeled their destroyers as breachers
lolman1c wrote:What does this say for orks though? Like if we added ip the index, how much would the ork stuff cost compared to the 1,750pts there.
RedNoak wrote:
Spoiler:
Big Mek in Mega Armour, Kustom Force field
+ Kustom mega-blasta, Power Klaw
Wyrdboy
Warboss on Warbike, Attack squig
+ Power klaw
28 Boyz, 24 x Choppa & Slugga, 1 x Shoota, 2 x Big shoota
+ Boss Nob, Shoota, Power klaw
30 Boyz, 28 x Choppa & Slugga, 1 x Shoota
+ Boss Nob, Shoota, Power klaw
20 Gretchin
10 Gretchin
Nob with Waaagh! Banner
Painboy, Grot orderly
+ Power Klaw
4 Warbikers
+ , Slugga, Power klaw
Gorkanaut
5 Mek Gunz, 5 x Kustom mega-kannon
Dakkajet, 6 supa shootas
Seems like ork points went slightly up overall. Probably the effect is mostly from boyz going up and a few other things going slightly down. But don't expect us to be anything except bottom-tier from that.
lolman1c wrote:What does this say for orks though? Like if we added ip the index, how much would the ork stuff cost compared to the 1,750pts there.
RedNoak wrote:
Spoiler:
Big Mek in Mega Armour, Kustom Force field
+ Kustom mega-blasta, Power Klaw
Wyrdboy
Warboss on Warbike, Attack squig
+ Power klaw
28 Boyz, 24 x Choppa & Slugga, 1 x Shoota, 2 x Big shoota
+ Boss Nob, Shoota, Power klaw
30 Boyz, 28 x Choppa & Slugga, 1 x Shoota
+ Boss Nob, Shoota, Power klaw
20 Gretchin
10 Gretchin
Nob with Waaagh! Banner
Painboy, Grot orderly
+ Power Klaw
4 Warbikers
+ , Slugga, Power klaw
Gorkanaut
5 Mek Gunz, 5 x Kustom mega-kannon
Dakkajet, 6 supa shootas
Seems like ork points went slightly up overall. Probably the effect is mostly from boyz going up and a few other things going slightly down. But don't expect us to be anything except bottom-tier from that.
That can't actually be the entire list, not at 1750. Unless I'm mistaken that adds up to 1579 points. Basically 1640 if the boyz are up 1ppm. What everything else also goes up? There's gotta be some stuff missing in that list
Edit: I'm an idiot. Missed the dakkajet. Add 148 points to 1638 would equal 1786 points. If that ends up being 1730-ish then the savings are certainly small in that list at least
Yeah, it's not good when a list goes up in price like that for a new book. That bodes ill for the gorkanaught, fighter, and bikes which all needed a point drop
Goffs look cool, but the old Ghaz model in the article must really put the nail in the coffin for the few people who still thought that he'd get a new model with the codex. The extra attacks on unmodified rolls are at least better since power klaws can still get them
Where did you get the £27.50 price from Discoking?
Not sure if that's the official price for buggies, as the pre-orders for the others aren't even up yet, and you can't even get the Dragster without buying the speedfreaks box.
DiscoKing wrote: Sorry if already been posted but new buggies are £27.50 each
Does it list a US price? That sounds pretty great (35$) but since "they came for the aussies and I did not speak because I was not an aussie, then they came for the kiwis..." etc, US seems to have its own tier of whackadoodle pricing where they convert to dollars and then slap and extra 25-50% on there for extra profit margins and funsies.
I gotta say, I'm completely fine with £27.50. I thought they were going to be £30 each. Not that there's a massive difference but I also deep down dreaded a stupid price, like £40 each
DiscoKing wrote: Sorry if already been posted but new buggies are £27.50 each
Does it list a US price? That sounds pretty great (35$) but since "they came for the aussies and I did not speak because I was not an aussie, then they came for the kiwis..." etc, US seems to have its own tier of whackadoodle pricing where they convert to dollars and then slap and extra 25-50% on there for extra profit margins and funsies.
Well, since Terminators are 28 pounds, but $50.00 US. I'd expect at LEAST $45.00 and probably $50.00 each.
DiscoKing wrote: Sorry if already been posted but new buggies are £27.50 each
Does it list a US price? That sounds pretty great (35$) but since "they came for the aussies and I did not speak because I was not an aussie, then they came for the kiwis..." etc, US seems to have its own tier of whackadoodle pricing where they convert to dollars and then slap and extra 25-50% on there for extra profit margins and funsies.
Well, since Terminators are 28 pounds, but $50.00 US. I'd expect at LEAST $45.00 and probably $50.00 each.
And I did not speak, because I weren't no dirty Canuck...
Just curious why their deepstrike strategem is 2cp instead of the usual 1cp in most other codexes?
Guessing because you can teleport a gorkanaut?
It also has a very interesting wording... it explicitly states that the unit you use the stratagem on can "teleport down at the end of ANY of your movement phases" (and as such overruling the "no deepstrike in T1" rule). T1 Killsaw Meganob or Gorkanaut charge anyone?
Assuming this is intentional and not an oversight of course.
Yeah, skarboyz are a crazy good upgrade. There are just so many things that are either T4,5 or 8 and this affects all of them. For 1CP
Alas, I'm no Goff
Man, each time I think "Maybe this is the time I start an ork army, I could to a mechanized lists, because then it would be better point-money ratio" GW just loves to convice me otherwise
Just curious why their deepstrike strategem is 2cp instead of the usual 1cp in most other codexes?
Guessing because you can teleport a gorkanaut?
It also has a very interesting wording... it explicitly states that the unit you use the stratagem on can "teleport down at the end of ANY of your movement phases" (and as such overruling the "no deepstrike in T1" rule). T1 Killsaw Meganob or Gorkanaut charge anyone?
Assuming this is intentional and not an oversight of course.
Also, it says that if you use it on a transport, any units in the transport remain embarked.
Does that mean anything I stuff into, say, a 3PL trukk just comes along with?
Tricktock wrote: Just curious why their deepstrike strategem is 2cp instead of the usual 1cp in most other codexes? Maybe I'm missing something?
Most of those are limited to infantry or similar. This one teleports everything except stompas...furthermore it believe you can even transport a battle wagon with 10 meganobs as the powerlevel is the battle wagon NOT the embarked unit which isn’t considered on the board for all rules purposes.
Edit: the turn 1 as RaW sounds interesting but I fully expect that to get faq’d.
what? how did orks go up in points? That was the biggest complaint from Ork players is that we are overpriced! I hope we got the maths wrong on that because I'm scared right now.
"There are few units with the close-combat punch of a pack of killsaw-armed Meganobz, and they’d be a great choice for an army of Goffs even without the generous points reduction they’ve received."
Galas wrote: Man, each time I think "Maybe this is the time I start an ork army, I could to a mechanized lists, because then it would be better point-money ratio" GW just loves to convice me otherwise
Is quite frustrating that the most Mad-max-ey army in 40k cannot go full Mad Max anymore.
We still did not see the whole codex. Better to remain optimistic up to the end.
Just curious why their deepstrike strategem is 2cp instead of the usual 1cp in most other codexes?
Guessing because you can teleport a gorkanaut?
It also has a very interesting wording... it explicitly states that the unit you use the stratagem on can "teleport down at the end of ANY of your movement phases" (and as such overruling the "no deepstrike in T1" rule). T1 Killsaw Meganob or Gorkanaut charge anyone?
Assuming this is intentional and not an oversight of course.
Also, it says that if you use it on a transport, any units in the transport remain embarked.
Does that mean anything I stuff into, say, a 3PL trukk just comes along with?
Hard to say... depends on whether rulewise an embarked unit "exists" inside the transport and if it does, if it retains it's associated PL while embarked. If not, you can teleport down a Battlewagon plus whatever you can cram inside no problem, if yes, you'll have to add the transports' PL to the PL of the embarked unit in order to determine whether you can teleport them in together.
Personally I'm leaning towards that a unit does "exist" while embarked, otherwise rules like open-topped and casualty rules for embarked units when a transport explodes cannot have any effect either. That still leaves the PL question however, but I'd say if a unit "exists" it also has an associated PL.
I would also like to point out this interesting bit of wording under the tellyporta strategem section of the GW community article.
"With their ’Ere We Go ability enabling you to re-roll either one or both of the dice when making your charge roll, you stand a great chance of getting this deadly unit stuck in as soon as they arrive."
Are they talking about ere we go allowing us to reroll either 1 or 2? or are they mentioningthe fact that we can either reroll both or use a CP reroll?
greggles wrote: They asked that on facebook, GW said its either 1 or both dice now. Nice subtle buff.
That is huge! Yeez, the amount of CP we can save from that alone is a great buff
Edit: And obviously also helps immensly if many charges fail in a turn. Index rules we were obviously tied to only one reroll per phase by use of CP, this is a neat little thing
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I'm sure that wasn't the intent and will be argued about (and probably FAQed) to 10PL in total
it literally states 20PL limit unit and allows transported models in transports(transported models are not on the board for any rules purposes unless specifically stated)... there is no ambiguity to the rule.
Yeah, skarboyz are a crazy good upgrade. There are just so many things that are either T4,5 or 8 and this affects all of them. For 1CP
Alas, I'm no Goff
"Scare" isn't what I feel. More like "Happy".
Also a big fan of the unmodified 6s to hit giving extra attacks. I was kind of hoping that a waaagh banner would buff boys to get extra attacks on 5+s, but it also means PKs always get a chance for extra attacks. And a points cut on meganobz is just gravy. Real talk, though........meganobz are somewhat fairly costed @42 points. They can't intrinsically deep strike (but can be jumped / tellyported), and shooting is garbage, but an extra wound and attack over terminators is probably worth it for 2 points.
The biggest bummer besides the fact that the buggies have no options. Despite the sprues looking thrice as dense as the bike sprues.
