Its about 2k points altogether. As a 1v1 it's badly balanced purely because of the Spartan but it would still be very easy to split between 2 or 3 people.
As someone who hasn't played HH at all, but bought a Word Bearers army at a nice discount from a local person a year or two ago, I'm actually pretty stoked on this launch box. I'm planning to get it and do a loyalist force out of it so I have two opposing forces.
This question might be super dumb, and I apologize for it but I've not had any coffee this morning yet.
So I can assume that this box could be used just to build one coherent force, right? Or are some of the options locked to Loyalist/Traitor?
You assume correct, the only Loyalist/Traitor exclusives are Legion Specific, or the Knights Errant. (I.E. Loyalist EC cannot take kakophoni)
Cool, cool. I'm excited about this. The new White Scars stuff has me really interested in Jumping back into the game. Those Kesig Terminators are beautiful.
My biggest issue is that I have zero desire to buy resin, so if there is not going to be a substantial plastic release cycle, I don’t think I want to invest.
bullyboy wrote: My biggest issue is that I have zero desire to buy resin, so if there is not going to be a substantial plastic release cycle, I don’t think I want to invest.
I think pretty much all Legion specific stuff is still going to be Resin.
To me the thought of adding 54 more miniatures to the backlog is scarier than the price tag. The launch happily coincides with the start of 8 week summer holiday and fattest paycheck of the year but I have so much unfinished stuff I should be working on instead. I could begin with by building and painting the models from Betrayal of Calth and Burning of Prospero
By the way, whose turn it is to circle all the duplicate models this time?
bullyboy wrote: My biggest issue is that I have zero desire to buy resin, so if there is not going to be a substantial plastic release cycle, I don’t think I want to invest.
Seeing as some of the more popular kits (Spartans, Contemptors and Sicarans) were taken off the FW store and the first two are already confirmed plastic releases, resin isn't going to be a huge concern unless you are going into things like Primarchs or specific vehicles.
There is a lot already about from GW in plastic that is usable in HH and kitbashing or converting is very prominent.
Definitely going to be getting at least one of these to bulk up my Emperor's Children. I don't have any Spartans...but this will be the 4th Contemptor.
I still need another 5 Palatine Blades, but my unit of 10 Phoenix Terminators is finally finished. Next step: the Glaive.
Sacredroach wrote: Definitely going to be getting at least one of these to bulk up my Emperor's Children. I don't have any Spartans...but this will be the 4th Contemptor.
I still need another 5 Palatine Blades, but my unit of 10 Phoenix Terminators is finally finished. Next step: the Glaive.
If I had but one wish that Father GW would grant me, anything I desired, it would be a plastic Fellblade/Glaive kit. They did it with the Baneblade. They can do it again. If we just believe....
I'm very much looking forward to the inevitable ascended Horus vs emperor kit. (Dont kid yourself they wont make it- They spent three sprues on the warmaster titan, the final dual kit will sell loads more than that did. )
Plant wrote: I'm very much looking forward to the inevitable ascended Horus vs emperor kit. (Dont kid yourself they wont make it- They spent three sprues on the warmaster titan, the final dual kit will sell loads more than that did. )
The Emperor has already been mentioned in the rules (if you take Valdor he must be your Warlord, unless you've also taken the Emperor), and at the time FW confirmed he was on their roadmap...
Buying two of the boxed set, one + the spartan in the other to round off my basic troops etc for my Alphas, the second set of infantry to commence my as yet undecided filthy loyalist army...
Plant wrote: I'm very much looking forward to the inevitable ascended Horus vs emperor kit. (Dont kid yourself they wont make it- They spent three sprues on the warmaster titan, the final dual kit will sell loads more than that did. )
The Emperor has already been mentioned in the rules (if you take Valdor he must be your Warlord, unless you've also taken the Emperor), and at the time FW confirmed he was on their roadmap...
Awesome, I'd imagine it will arrive at a similar time to the siege of Terra finale books.
Sacredroach wrote: Definitely going to be getting at least one of these to bulk up my Emperor's Children. I don't have any Spartans...but this will be the 4th Contemptor.
I still need another 5 Palatine Blades, but my unit of 10 Phoenix Terminators is finally finished. Next step: the Glaive.
If I had but one wish that Father GW would grant me, anything I desired, it would be a plastic Fellblade/Glaive kit. They did it with the Baneblade. They can do it again. If we just believe....
Excellent point...I would love to have a second Glaive for my Space Wolves as a relic unit. I remember when they first released the Baneblade plastic kit, my group went kind of insane with all the build options...I think my friend Chris bought five or six of them for his Mordian force. I really should call him and see how he is doing...
Sacredroach wrote: Definitely going to be getting at least one of these to bulk up my Emperor's Children. I don't have any Spartans...but this will be the 4th Contemptor.
I still need another 5 Palatine Blades, but my unit of 10 Phoenix Terminators is finally finished. Next step: the Glaive.
If I had but one wish that Father GW would grant me, anything I desired, it would be a plastic Fellblade/Glaive kit. They did it with the Baneblade. They can do it again. If we just believe....
Excellent point...I would love to have a second Glaive for my Space Wolves as a relic unit. I remember when they first released the Baneblade plastic kit, my group went kind of insane with all the build options...I think my friend Chris bought five or six of them for his Mordian force. I really should call him and see how he is doing...
I wonder if they could do the same thing with the BB kit for a new HHFB kit, even incorporating the other SH models like the Falchion and the Typhoon?
I'm still torn on whether or not I want to invest in the big box. I have no desire to play HH (since to do so I'd have to adhere to and care about minutiae of the official fluff), but I figure I could sell one Praetor and 10-20 MkVIs, maybe along with the rulebooks, to someone interested in starting the new edition with a smaller expenditure - though since GW is going to be releasing smaller starter sets, I'd have to sell them off at pennies on the dollar most likely.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Fully posable as well
The Contemptor’s right arm can take ballistic weapons in the form of a bolt cannon or autocannon, or a tank-busting melta cannon or lascannon. Meanwhile, the mighty left-hand power fist can be equipped with a built-in combi-bolter, heavy flamer, plasma blaster, or meltagun. And if you fancy adding some high explosives to your walking arsenal, you can even outfit your Contemptor with a carapace-mounted havoc launcher!
Contemptor weapons
Having loads more weapons options is one thing, but perhaps the greatest triumph of the new kit is in its posability. The Contemptor Dreadnought has been cunningly constructed with full ball-and-socket joints at the hips and ankles, as well as half-ball joints at the waist and chest. Combined with the optional flat or bent toe components, and the rotating assembly joints and separate armour plates at the knees and elbows, there is ample opportunity for a really dynamic pose without the need for a complex conversion.
As if that wasn’t enough variety already, there are even options to outfit your Contemptor Dreadnought’s power fist with blunt fingers or sharp claws according to your Legion’s preference.
Hm. So no C-Beam, Volkite, Kheres Assault Cannon, Plasma Cannon, or Chainfist. Thanks, GW very cool.
It might just be the lack of colour breakup between the armour panels but that looks weirdly smooth.
infinite_array wrote: I like the amount of options (and hopefully the weapons are designed to work on either arm so you can swap sides).
3d printed bits should work for decorations if GW doesn't have anything to offer.
I do find it funny that they talk about how posable it is... and then all of the preview images are boring and static.
It looks like they should be swappable since the central thumb should let the fist work on either side and the upper arm seems to use the same connector for the elbow.
Worst off some clipping of plugs would be all it'd take.
I really like the bland Contemptor for Iron Warriors, I'm probably not going to get the box due to the mark 6 power armor, but I would definitely keep an eye out for people parting it out to get the Contemptor and Spartan. If it came with Mark 2 marines I'd be breaking my bank account wide open for multiple boxes.
Gert wrote: Hm. So no C-Beam, Volkite, Kheres Assault Cannon, Plasma Cannon, or Chainfist. Thanks, GW very cool.
It might just be the lack of colour breakup between the armour panels but that looks weirdly smooth.
4 different weapons and 4 hand weapon options, plus a carapace mount is pretty solid for a kit. It's more options than any current plastic dreadnought kit.
I think it looks great. Amazing that they actually plan out posable minis ahead of time. Imagine if they applied that level of thinking to their infantry rather than the jigsaw puzzle things we have currently.
And the Ironclad (remember that?) has a bunch of options as well.
Gert wrote: Hm. So no C-Beam, Volkite, Kheres Assault Cannon, Plasma Cannon, or Chainfist. Thanks, GW very cool.
No model. No rule.
Guess we can say good bye to those and the carapace cyclone.
MajorWesJanson wrote: 4 different weapons and 4 hand weapon options, plus a carapace mount is pretty solid for a kit. It's more options than any current plastic dreadnought kit.
When none of the signature weapon options of Heresy Era units are there, it lessens it a bit. These are all weapons that are very common in 40k but the more "advanced" weapons just aren't there at all.
Guess we can say good bye to those and the carapace cyclone.
Have to wait and see if that first part tracks because as has been pointed out numerous times, that policy doesn't fit with what has been shown in the rules leaks.
Also, HH Contemptors only ever had the Havoc Launcher as the carapace weapon, the Cyclone Missiles were a post-Heresy thing.
The Contemptor always had too many weapon variants to comfortably fit into a plastic kit (GW has never given us more than 3-4 per Dread, have they?). On the other hand, GW removed all the Contemptor parts from sale recently, so that's a pity.
I wasn't expecting *all* of the Contemptor weapons, just at least one that is common during the Heresy but not in 40k, like the Volkite Culverin or C-Beam. Hell, even the first version had the Kheres but this one doesn't?
It will be interesting how much NMNR we see with FW legacy kits and resin production options. Also, we might keep access to the kheres due to it being on the old plastic kit. Which I expect will be replaced with this one.
They'll have to bring out some of the Contemptor weapon options, either in singles or an upgrade sprue. They're still selling the Legion specific Contemptors, which don't come with weapons. Unless they're expecting people to shell out for one of those and one of these just to get the weapons.......
Gert wrote: I wasn't expecting *all* of the Contemptor weapons, just at least one that is common during the Heresy but not in 40k, like the Volkite Culverin or C-Beam. Hell, even the first version had the Kheres but this one doesn't?
It's a bit bizarre from GW to make the model so "40k" instead of "30k" when it's a non-Primaris Marine unit, something they've all but stopped producing otherwise.
Agamemnon2 wrote: The Contemptor always had too many weapon variants to comfortably fit into a plastic kit (GW has never given us more than 3-4 per Dread, have they?). On the other hand, GW removed all the Contemptor parts from sale recently, so that's a pity.
Helbrute, aka Chaos Dreadnought has 5 options for the left arm and 5 options for the right arm and bolter/flamer options for the fists. It's totally monopose though.
Gert wrote: I wasn't expecting *all* of the Contemptor weapons, just at least one that is common during the Heresy but not in 40k, like the Volkite Culverin or C-Beam. Hell, even the first version had the Kheres but this one doesn't?
It's a bit bizarre from GW to make the model so "40k" instead of "30k" when it's a non-Primaris Marine unit, something they've all but stopped producing otherwise.
Well, Contemptors are in the loyalist codex, so I guess they expect this kit to pull double duty for 30k and 40k. For loyalist, anyways. No spikes means that the guys that they're actually calling "Legionaries" now will still be sticking with that one mail order only Mutant.
Agamemnon2 wrote: It's a bit bizarre from GW to make the model so "40k" instead of "30k" when it's a non-Primaris Marine unit, something they've all but stopped producing otherwise.
It's very confusing because everything else so far has been very much in the "HH appropriate wargear" category, especially the Tacticals which have no Special or Heavies and the vox.
Well then. Sounds like it's decently posable. It's overdue since they could have had that years ago with the Calth Contemptor, but I guess better late than never.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Well, Contemptors are in the loyalist codex, so I guess they expect this kit to pull double duty for 30k and 40k. For loyalist, anyways. No spikes means that the guys that they're actually calling "Legionaries" now will still be sticking with that one mail order only Mutant.
Ah see but the Contemptor in the Custodes and Space Marine Codexes has the option of Multi-Melta, Kheres, and Fist with Stormbolter. This new one has more options that the unit can't take than can.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Well, Contemptors are in the loyalist codex, so I guess they expect this kit to pull double duty for 30k and 40k. For loyalist, anyways. No spikes means that the guys that they're actually calling "Legionaries" now will still be sticking with that one mail order only Mutant.
Ah see but the Contemptor in the Custodes and Space Marine Codexes has the option of Multi-Melta, Kheres, and Fist with Stormbolter. This new one has more options that the unit can't take than can.
Oh, I'm sure that Loyalist Scum 2.0 is right around the corner, they wouldn't want to leave CSM (or "Legionaries") with more base attacks and better leadership than Primaris for very long. And they'll be adding all of those new options in there when it happens. Probably Spartans too, since they're in plastic now. And they usually take care of the Golden Boys as well, probably in a PDF.
I'm sure us Chaos players will be able to take the new HH stuff as well, with an extra CP tax of course.
After all, the Legions having easier access to Heresy-level equipment is quite a difficult thing to justify, especially compared to modern 40k Chapters. Recent Chapter Foundings, especially those in the Primaris Age, are just more likely to have tons of old Heresy stuff lying around, and certainly more than, say, the Iron Warriors might have in their store houses.
Out of interest, when did the Calth plastic Contemptor come out – like five years ago? Wondering if this is the quickest a plastic kit's been retired/replaced, certainly in the last ten years or so – can anyone think of any other candidates?
Nazrak wrote: Out of interest, when did the Calth plastic Contemptor come out – like five years ago? Wondering if this is the quickest a plastic kit's been retired/replaced, certainly in the last ten years or so – can anyone think of any other candidates?
Seven (well, six and a half) - November 2015.
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Gert wrote: Hm. So no C-Beam, Volkite, Kheres Assault Cannon, Plasma Cannon, or Chainfist. Thanks, GW very cool.
The 'changed' weapon names matches the leaks, and those options are still in the leaks.
Nazrak wrote: Out of interest, when did the Calth plastic Contemptor come out – like five years ago? Wondering if this is the quickest a plastic kit's been retired/replaced, certainly in the last ten years or so – can anyone think of any other candidates?
Seven (well, six and a half) - November 2015.
Oh wow, didn't realise it was quite that long. Still, that's a relatively short lifespan for a kit from entirely new to replaced, isn't it?
Nazrak wrote: Out of interest, when did the Calth plastic Contemptor come out – like five years ago? Wondering if this is the quickest a plastic kit's been retired/replaced, certainly in the last ten years or so – can anyone think of any other candidates?
Seven (well, six and a half) - November 2015.
Oh wow, didn't realise it was quite that long. Still, that's a relatively short lifespan for a kit from entirely new to replaced, isn't it?
Eh, it was basically an Easy to Build kit that lacked the pegs to hold it together. Few tears will be shed for it's loss besides the kheres arm.
zedmeister wrote: I reckon we'll see a weapon expansion kit to go with it. After all, we've a pile of FW Contemptors now without arms.
Hopefully they’ll have the body on one sprue and the weapons on a second. That way, like the armiger knights, GW can have kits for variants like the furioso or mortis.
Nazrak wrote: Out of interest, when did the Calth plastic Contemptor come out – like five years ago? Wondering if this is the quickest a plastic kit's been retired/replaced, certainly in the last ten years or so – can anyone think of any other candidates?
Seven (well, six and a half) - November 2015.
Oh wow, didn't realise it was quite that long. Still, that's a relatively short lifespan for a kit from entirely new to replaced, isn't it?
Eh, it was basically an Easy to Build kit that lacked the pegs to hold it together. Few tears will be shed for it's loss besides the kheres arm.
Yeah I don’t know anyone that actually respected it as a kit. A nice base to cut up and convert for sure, but on its own? The whole 2-piece clamshell design with smudgy details on the sides was two or three compromises too far, especially for a kit you had to glue.
Gert wrote: I wasn't expecting *all* of the Contemptor weapons, just at least one that is common during the Heresy but not in 40k, like the Volkite Culverin or C-Beam. Hell, even the first version had the Kheres but this one doesn't?
I imagine they'll be in resin (new release) or a future upgrade kit because we have still all the legion specific dreadnoughts with no arm options.
But I will say that this confirms my suspicions about the HH from over four years ago.
Betrayal at Calth and Burning of Prospero were soft test launches to see if there was enough interest in the game for general audiences. Those sets sold extremely well (I myself bought two Calth and four BoP) It seems like the idea is to get all the basic stuff into plastic, and then keep all of the bespoke stuff in FW for now. The starting point will be the plastic kits, and then you move over to FW for the legion specific stuff or for non-plastic factions such as SA, Custodes and so on. Actually, I'll be willing to bet that if this launch goes very well for them and given the buzz around discussions I'd say it will, plastic legion units and Primarchs are inevitable.
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Nazrak wrote: Out of interest, when did the Calth plastic Contemptor come out – like five years ago? Wondering if this is the quickest a plastic kit's been retired/replaced, certainly in the last ten years or so – can anyone think of any other candidates?
So that kit was extremely mono pose. Like, really badly. So much so I have a conspiracy theory that it was a super cheap test design thrown into the box as an afterthought, more than it was intended to be a real model for mass market appeal.
Gert wrote: I wasn't expecting *all* of the Contemptor weapons, just at least one that is common during the Heresy but not in 40k, like the Volkite Culverin or C-Beam. Hell, even the first version had the Kheres but this one doesn't?
Gotta save something for the inevitable resin “upgrade kits” for the new bestest option.
Voss wrote: Sounds and looks like a real nice kit.
I wish they would have included pics with the various weapon options in place, though.
This box set is becoming more and more of a puzzle. Fairly limited marines, detailed vehicles and repackaged terminators?
I think the idea is that this is your basic starting point. A sampling of all the units available to both traitors and loyalist marines. Get started here, then when you're ready, head on over to Forgeworld for all your legion specific needs. From Characters to Dreadnoughts with Chapter Iconography, to your ultimate Primarchs!
How do you designate legion affinity apart from a paint job? Are there transfers included? Or will there be legion specific shoulder pads? You could of course try a free hand style of painting but this will be quite tough depending on which legion you choose.
Strg Alt wrote: How do you designate legion affinity apart from a paint job? Are there transfers included? Or will there be legion specific shoulder pads? You could of course try a free hand style of painting but this will be quite tough depending on which legion you choose.
I believe so, there were transfers in the previous box sets. Also, for more specific legion stuff there are upgrade kits and legion specific dreadnoughts you can use. HH from what I remember was almost as much historical modeling as much as it was a game. We had some people in our local group who only sought to make lore friendly dioramas and stuff like that.
Strg Alt wrote: How do you designate legion affinity apart from a paint job? Are there transfers included? Or will there be legion specific shoulder pads? You could of course try a free hand style of painting but this will be quite tough depending on which legion you choose.
I believe so, there were transfers in the previous box sets. Also, for more specific legion stuff there are upgrade kits and legion specific dreadnoughts you can use. HH from what I remember was almost as much historical modeling as much as it was a game. We had some people in our local group who only sought to make lore friendly dioramas and stuff like that.
This is how I view it, or better put actually the game is the thing I like least about 30k.
This is the main reason why I'm over Primaris in 40k & am excited for 30k. It's kinda dumb using Primaris in the Badab war/Beast conflicts. Same w MkVi during the early crusade or MKIII before they ran into squats.
I can understand those that enjoy the game above all else, it's just 180 degrees from where I'm at with the 30/40k setting.
I'd gently remind again that the leak containing legion upgrade sprues is the Faeit one with dodgy prices & names that do not match up to the leaked documents.
Re: the Contemptor, I really like it and it's my favourite of the new plastic kits shown so far. Big fan of some of the tweaks they've made to the design, and I won't bother comparing it to its plastic predecessor.
Strg Alt wrote: How do you designate legion affinity apart from a paint job? Are there transfers included? Or will there be legion specific shoulder pads? You could of course try a free hand style of painting but this will be quite tough depending on which legion you choose.
I believe so, there were transfers in the previous box sets. Also, for more specific legion stuff there are upgrade kits and legion specific dreadnoughts you can use. HH from what I remember was almost as much historical modeling as much as it was a game. We had some people in our local group who only sought to make lore friendly dioramas and stuff like that.
This is how I view it, or better put actually the game is the thing I like least about 30k.
This is the main reason why I'm over Primaris in 40k & am excited for 30k. It's kinda dumb using Primaris in the Badab war/Beast conflicts. Same w MkVi during the early crusade or MKIII before they ran into squats.
I can understand those that enjoy the game above all else, it's just 180 degrees from where I'm at with the 30/40k setting.
What's the 'mk3 before they ran into squats' referencing?
When I think of Squats and Marines my period of overlap is MK6 for 40k (RT) or Mk 6&7 for Epic (which includes the whole Heresy, since my starting point with Epic was Space Marine and the other armors didn't exist)
It seems like he is suggesting that MkIII “iron armor” was developed after the Great Crusade came into contact with the Squats? Which is something I hadn’t heard of before, but maybe it’s true.
ph34r wrote: It seems like he is suggesting that MkIII “iron armor” was developed after the Great Crusade came into contact with the Squats? Which is something I hadn’t heard of before, but maybe it’s true.
Yes - originally MkII was MkII with increased frontal armour for tunnel-fighting against Squats.
Lexicanum wrote:This model dates from the wars of the Great Crusade, waged close to the galactic core. Many of these worlds were the Squat Homeworlds, which were not pleased to find themselves the object of galactic conquest. The Squats' independent and stubborn nature, along with the conditions of the fighting, spurred the creation of this new armour type. This armour was ideal when cover was minimal and combat was a matter of frontal assault.
ph34r wrote: It seems like he is suggesting that MkIII “iron armor” was developed after the Great Crusade came into contact with the Squats? Which is something I hadn’t heard of before, but maybe it’s true.
Yes - originally MkII was MkII with increased frontal armour for tunnel-fighting against Squats.
Lexicanum wrote:This model dates from the wars of the Great Crusade, waged close to the galactic core. Many of these worlds were the Squat Homeworlds, which were not pleased to find themselves the object of galactic conquest. The Squats' independent and stubborn nature, along with the conditions of the fighting, spurred the creation of this new armour type. This armour was ideal when cover was minimal and combat was a matter of frontal assault.
Ok, but I’ve never once seen anyone make an army representing a legion specifically labelled as before or after contact with squats.
The contemptor is great. I’m not really a heresy fan, but all this stuff is giving me proper Rogue Trader nostalgia. I’ll echo the sentiment of others that I’m a bit bored of Primaris. If I was going to make a marine force for 40K, I’d be more inclined to use beakies, contemptors and Spartans, than I would to use tacticool marines and hoverbricks.
Strg Alt wrote: How do you designate legion affinity apart from a paint job? Are there transfers included? Or will there be legion specific shoulder pads? You could of course try a free hand style of painting but this will be quite tough depending on which legion you choose.
The Mark III marines box, for example, comes with two transfer sheets: one with Ultramarines and some generic squad markins, and one with Thousand Sons and Space Wolves markings. Forgeworld also used to do a lot of sculpted shoulderpads for each legion, in different armor marks, but FW has severely reduced the variety to being maybe just one mark of shoulderpad per legion. FW does sell transfer sheets for each legion.
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Stormonu wrote: Blast and Flamer templates in the set (as seen to the right of the Spartan)?
So is this using 6E/7E rules?
It's an evolution of 7E, with a lot of changes. Which is a sore subject for some people.
I can't believe people actually *like* that abomination that is the Contemptor dreadnaught. For one thing, it's looks like it has a huge beerbelly. For another, dreadnaughts are supposed to be exceptionally armored walking life support systems. Sticking your head out of one is the epitome of idiotic. Not wearing a helmet on a regular marine is bad enough, but at least you could claim he's trying to see or hear better or something.
Bob Lorgar wrote: I can't believe people actually *like* that abomination that is the Contemptor dreadnaught. For one thing, it's looks like it has a huge beerbelly. For another, dreadnaughts are supposed to be exceptionally armored walking life support systems. Sticking your head out of one is the epitome of idiotic. Not wearing a helmet on a regular marine is bad enough, but at least you could claim he's trying to see or hear better or something.
I like your assumption that
a) the helmet isn't armored.
and
b) that's where the marine's actual head is, and not just a sensor suite.
Also, I'm confused as to where you think a 'beer belly' is. The Contemptor's 'belly' (above the hips and below the chest) is rather... sunken.
The (FW)contemptor is one of GW's best models they've ever produced and I think they've hit the new plastic one outta the park. Compared to the calth one, the new one makes it look like a pathetic attempt at best and insulting at worst.
The boxnauts look horrid and I've always loved the "alternate" dreads. I only own one normal metal dred(free to me) and am looking for a reason to use it on a base for something. As that's what they should be used for...
Bob Lorgar wrote: I can't believe people actually *like* that abomination that is the Contemptor dreadnaught. For one thing, it's looks like it has a huge beerbelly. For another, dreadnaughts are supposed to be exceptionally armored walking life support systems. Sticking your head out of one is the epitome of idiotic. Not wearing a helmet on a regular marine is bad enough, but at least you could claim he's trying to see or hear better or something.
You're aware that's not actually the Marine's head right? I mean, think about the position of the head on the body vs where the Marine body might be.
Bob Lorgar wrote: I can't believe people actually *like* that abomination that is the Contemptor dreadnaught. For one thing, it's looks like it has a huge beerbelly. For another, dreadnaughts are supposed to be exceptionally armored walking life support systems. Sticking your head out of one is the epitome of idiotic. Not wearing a helmet on a regular marine is bad enough, but at least you could claim he's trying to see or hear better or something.
This complaint is some 31 years out of date, given the Contemptor first rocked up on Epic sprues in 1991. Weak flame bait game, Bob.
Bob Lorgar wrote: I can't believe people actually *like* that abomination that is the Contemptor dreadnaught. For one thing, it's looks like it has a huge beerbelly. For another, dreadnaughts are supposed to be exceptionally armored walking life support systems. Sticking your head out of one is the epitome of idiotic. Not wearing a helmet on a regular marine is bad enough, but at least you could claim he's trying to see or hear better or something.
Dang, i guess all Dreadnoughts are the epitome of idiotic then, even the Boxnaut.
All Dreadnoughts look great, except for Redemptor and Deredeo, they're ugly. Redemptor looks like it was made for Orks and Deredeo, well it's just terrible and overgunned all around
I got a DG Contemptor already and was a bit hesitant building it because of its modularity. You can do unwanted strange things when you have to pose everything I'm thinking about getting that new plastic one at some point to properly nurglify it and get the additional weapons.
Bob Lorgar wrote: I can't believe people actually *like* that abomination that is the Contemptor dreadnaught. For one thing, it's looks like it has a huge beerbelly. For another, dreadnaughts are supposed to be exceptionally armored walking life support systems. Sticking your head out of one is the epitome of idiotic. Not wearing a helmet on a regular marine is bad enough, but at least you could claim he's trying to see or hear better or something.
Good thing then that the "head" is actually more like decorational helmet? With pilot head elsewhere under the armour?
There's some fluff in one of the IA books that Mk.IV dreadnoughts (helmet) were prone to being possessed during the HH (or the pilots just killed), which is why the Mk.V has a dully enclosed sarcophagus (with extra warding).
Bob Lorgar wrote: I can't believe people actually *like* that abomination that is the Contemptor dreadnaught. For one thing, it's looks like it has a huge beerbelly. For another, dreadnaughts are supposed to be exceptionally armored walking life support systems. Sticking your head out of one is the epitome of idiotic. Not wearing a helmet on a regular marine is bad enough, but at least you could claim he's trying to see or hear better or something.
Good thing then that the "head" is actually more like decorational helmet? With pilot head elsewhere under the armour?
Funny thing that.
Is it though? The wulfen/Murderfang model would tend to disagree.
Bob Lorgar wrote: I can't believe people actually *like* that abomination that is the Contemptor dreadnaught. For one thing, it's looks like it has a huge beerbelly. For another, dreadnaughts are supposed to be exceptionally armored walking life support systems. Sticking your head out of one is the epitome of idiotic. Not wearing a helmet on a regular marine is bad enough, but at least you could claim he's trying to see or hear better or something.
You're aware that's not actually the Marine's head right? I mean, think about the position of the head on the body vs where the Marine body might be.
Also huge beer belly? What?
Apparently this isn't true for Contemptors? Going off a 7 year old comment with no source so uh... grain of salt is even a bit too confident lol. But:
"That depends on the Dreadnought pattern.
This is true with all Contemptor Pattern Dreadnaughts as these are more giant, titan-esque power armor with advanced life support than a sarcophagus with arms and legs.
If you're referring to Venerable Dreadnoughts, this is a honorary title which can be granted to any Dreadnought of any pattern.
The ones that look like the helmet is exposed in the front doesn't actually expose the pilot. They're deep within the center of the machine, the "head" is just a sensor module. The shape is to inspire courage and instill fear."
Contemptor bit bolded for emphasis. I have no idea how to find any lore supporting that, if there is any, but it's a nifty thought and goes well alongside the "Contemptors are the best kind of dread to be trapped in" fluff.
Bob Lorgar wrote: I can't believe people actually *like* that abomination that is the Contemptor dreadnaught. For one thing, it's looks like it has a huge beerbelly. For another, dreadnaughts are supposed to be exceptionally armored walking life support systems. Sticking your head out of one is the epitome of idiotic. Not wearing a helmet on a regular marine is bad enough, but at least you could claim he's trying to see or hear better or something.
Good thing then that the "head" is actually more like decorational helmet? With pilot head elsewhere under the armour?
Funny thing that.
Is it though? The wulfen/Murderfang model would tend to disagree.
Alternately, the Murderfang model is just another example of the sculptors not knowing the game background. (Which nicely sums up that _entire_ SW codex and release)
And is also a boxnought.
That also begs the question about whether helbrutes are chaos corrupted dreadnoughts, or just parodies.
Because the helmets sticking out the front of a helbrute chassis is definitely a space marine's. Half the heads aren't wearing helmets, and even one that does has half its face exposed.
Prior to Helbrutes and Murderfang, I always assumed the pilot was floating in a little bacta tank inside and the head was just symbolic. Sort of like what you see with Titans occasionally. How does it even work if the head is exposed like that?
In MY dreads it's a sensor module, because it looks cool.
You all can have cool models ruined for you by random hard to find fluff if you want, though. Keep on not enjoying things that look cool because someone typed some words.
GaroRobe wrote: That also begs the question about whether helbrutes are chaos corrupted dreadnoughts, or just parodies.
Because the helmets sticking out the front of a helbrute chassis is definitely a space marine's. Half the heads aren't wearing helmets, and even one that does has half its face exposed.
Prior to Helbrutes and Murderfang, I always assumed the pilot was floating in a little bacta tank inside and the head was just symbolic. Sort of like what you see with Titans occasionally. How does it even work if the head is exposed like that?
Hellbrute heads aren't sticking out of the chassis but are more buried inside of it.
The multipart kit looks much closer to Murderfang. The only thing is that since its a chaos model, it has a lot of flesh and horns growing out over the front, making it look bulkier.
I mean, the dreadnought is a coffin with arms and legs.
Exposing the head is equivalent to having an open casket vs. the angry washing machines "closed casket".
If I were to be locked in a dread, I think I'd be a little less likely to go insane if I could occasionally look out with my own eyes on the world around me - at least having the helmet on gives some protection.
The question with the Contemptor is - where the heck is the body in that thing? Is it just the head? That torso is small - is there even enough room for the rest of his body to fit in, even in a fetal position?
I mean, the dreadnought is a coffin with arms and legs.
Exposing the head is equivalent to having an open casket vs. the angry washing machines "closed casket".
If I were to be locked in a dread, I think I'd be a little less likely to go insane if I could occasionally look out with my own eyes on the world around me - at least having the helmet on gives some protection.
The question with the Contemptor is - where the heck is the body in that thing? Is it just the head? That torso is small - is there even enough room for the rest of his body to fit in, even in a fetal position?
From what I recall, it's just a torso and head inside
Agamemnon2 wrote: You're right, they're not even appealing to Space Wolf fans.
Sometimes I feel like GW deliberately set out to destroy good will towards the Big Name SM loyalist chapters.
That SW codex rammed Wolfy McWolfface Wolferson into the ground (with models to match that crater)
Ward did the Ultra Ultra Ultras.
Dark Angels mutated beyond all recognition and background (as far as I can tell, to make room for the Black Templars as the 'main' Black armor chapter)
and Blood Angels got the 'no, they're actually, really vampires, it isn't a metaphor' treatment.
Whatever it was, they pushed the subtext to the surface and went full flanderization. Luckily, they never cared enough about the other loyalist first founding chapters to do them dirty (or much at all).
Voss wrote: Alternately, the Murderfang model is just another example of the sculptors not knowing the game background
Erm, multiple chaos boxnoughts also have pilot peeking out, so if anything M is continuation, not beginning of a trend.
GaroRobe wrote: Prior to Helbrutes and Murderfang, I always assumed the pilot was floating in a little bacta tank inside and the head was just symbolic. Sort of like what you see with Titans occasionally. How does it even work if the head is exposed like that?
Dunno. It's stupid, but there is not enough space inside for any "bacta tanks" unless the pilot is very front, like the 'helmet' would indicate.
You'd need something Redemptor size at least to fit reactor, pilot, thick front armour with 'helmet' sensors, etc, etc. Which is yet another example of primaris designs being vastly superior both aesthetically and practically to old ugly squats, because their walkers and vehicles look like actual, working designs decaying Imperium might use, not nonsensical junk that makes no sense even at first glance (*cough* Rhino/LR suspension, boxnoughts, ear-shoulders on TDA *cough*)
No, he did not. He wrote rules for Codex SM, not the fluff. And if you look at main Ultramarine stupidity from 5th Edition (Sicarius beating C'tan in fist fight and Calgar juggling Necron pylons while using them as pistols), that was in Warzone: Damnos book by Phil Kelly, showing who wrote that particular bit of fluff.
Alas, screeching 4chan kids concentrated on the completely innocent dude just because his name was on the book (and reading the interviews to see who did what was apparently too hard for them) then smeared him to a point the author of the only balanced, well written and with loads of options and viable builds in all of his army books edition of 40K quit. Bravo.
Repeating of which falsehood, incidentally, is doubly hilarious in HH subforum as the big success of 30K was caused by FW basing it entirely on his work, 5th edition providing the entire framework for the rules that made it explode in popularity. Well, until hacks who took over AB passing decided to ruin HH by switching to 7th edition, by far the worst one in 40K history (insert surprised pikachu face when it made HH tank)...
Stormonu wrote: I mean, the dreadnought is a coffin with arms and legs.
Exposing the head is equivalent to having an open casket vs. the angry washing machines "closed casket".
If I were to be locked in a dread, I think I'd be a little less likely to go insane if I could occasionally look out with my own eyes on the world around me - at least having the helmet on gives some protection.
The question with the Contemptor is - where the heck is the body in that thing? Is it just the head? That torso is small - is there even enough room for the rest of his body to fit in, even in a fetal position?
I was under the impression that it isn’t really a body in a dreadnought, it’s more like a lump of flesh kept alive through the life support systems.
Irbis wrote: Repeating of which falsehood, incidentally, is doubly hilarious in HH subforum as the big success of 30K was caused by FW basing it entirely on his work, 5th edition providing the entire framework for the rules that made it explode in popularity. Well, until hacks who took over AB passing decided to ruin HH by switching to 7th edition, by far the worst one in 40K history (insert surprised pikachu face when it made HH tank)...
The first edition of HH was based on 6th Ed 40k chief. HH also didn't switch to 7th Ed it switched to a ruleset based on 7th with the major problems taken out or just not present in the first place. AB also passed away in April 2017 and the Age of Darkness ruleset was released in December of the same year so he absolutely worked on it. And as for the "hacks", they lived and breathed HH just as AB did and you should show more respect to the people who had to not only grieve the loss of their friend but also had to carry on his legacy while chuds like you screeched online about how the game isn't perfect.
ImAGeek wrote: I was under the impression that it isn’t really a body in a dreadnought, it’s more like a lump of flesh kept alive through the life support systems.
It depends - sometimes it's a good chunk of the pilot, sometimes it's a brain in a jar. Carab Culln was mopped into a bucket and poured into a Leviathan Dreadnought. Some Chapters (like the Iron Hands) come close to committing tech-heresy and copy the Marine's memories into the Dreadnought rather than using the remains.
Dreadnaughts have a torso and head contained within them, fairly close to the front of the machine. The body is basically wired in and cannot be removed without dying fairly rapidly. The head is therefore in a position whereby it can have a "helmet" of some description placed upon it, so you can theoretically have a dreadnought with an uncovered head.
As far as Contemptor's, I imagine they're functionally the same as the old boxnaughts, so, yes, the "head" is where the head of the near-dead space marine would be.
If you don't think that the body overall has the required space for all the components along with at least a Space Marine head and torso, I mean, yeah? It's a science fiction model, designed to look cool, first and foremost. And that's about it. It wouldn't be the first thing in Warhammer 40k that made little sense when you start trying to explain the functionality of the thing.
"Is the head a head?" has to be one of the more bizarre debates I've seen on here....
ekwatts wrote: Dreadnaughts have a torso and head contained within them, fairly close to the front of the machine. The body is basically wired in and cannot be removed without dying fairly rapidly. The head is therefore in a position whereby it can have a "helmet" of some description placed upon it, so you can theoretically have a dreadnought with an uncovered head.
As far as Contemptor's, I imagine they're functionally the same as the old boxnaughts, so, yes, the "head" is where the head of the near-dead space marine would be.
If you don't think that the body overall has the required space for all the components along with at least a Space Marine head and torso, I mean, yeah? It's a science fiction model, designed to look cool, first and foremost. And that's about it. It wouldn't be the first thing in Warhammer 40k that made little sense when you start trying to explain the functionality of the thing.
"Is the head a head?" has to be one of the more bizarre debates I've seen on here....
Following the Drop Site Massacre the Iron Hands couldn't completely rebuild the salvaged dread so they just kind of 'stuck' Captain Branthan into it...
Seems that poor old Irby is forgetting that all the "spiritual liege" stuff came from Ward. And that Ward gave us Draigo as well. And NEMESIS DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM FISTS!
Really his entire post was just another unbelievably transparent attempt to character assassinate Phill Kelly. Something he does often.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I think it looks great. Amazing that they actually plan out posable minis ahead of time. Imagine if they applied that level of thinking to their infantry rather than the jigsaw puzzle things we have currently.
And the Ironclad (remember that?) has a bunch of options as well.
Gert wrote: Hm. So no C-Beam, Volkite, Kheres Assault Cannon, Plasma Cannon, or Chainfist. Thanks, GW very cool.
No model. No rule.
Guess we can say good bye to those and the carapace cyclone.
The models for these do exist - forgeworld. Therefore, they have rules. Like other specialist games, this will not see a 100% plastic release slate, you will still need to buy forgeworld stuff to get access to everything.
Do they exist from Forgeworld? Do they still sell them? Will they once this stuff starts to drop?
FW drops things at random all the time, and we've seen lots of HH things going the way of the Squa... uh... wait that doesn't work anymore... going the way of the Dodo for a while now.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Do they exist from Forgeworld? Do they still sell them? Will they once this stuff starts to drop?
FW drops things at random all the time, and we've seen lots of HH things going the way of the Squa... uh... wait that doesn't work anymore... going the way of the Dodo for a while now.
Scientists should totally get inspired by Jurassic Park and bring back dodos just to make your life harder like GW just did.
I know we're all not fans of a proper good "wait and see" here, but Warhammer Fest is just a week away. It won't give all the answers, but remember last year for 3rd ed AoS they made a video with some design notes (including the adamant statement that they really wanted to keep double turn that people wanted an answer to). I'd say there's a reasonable chance that GW is going to talk a bit about how they wish to proceed with Horus Heresy. If they keep it firmly as a Forge World thing the main studio has no influence over, we'll be in a much better place than if they start throwing around words like cooperation, coordination, main game or stuff like that.
Geifer wrote: I know we're all not fans of a proper good "wait and see" here, but Warhammer Fest is just a week away.
On the contrary: If we take last year's Warhammer Fest as an example, along with all the reveals and leaks that we've got so far, we don't need to wait to see anything, as we've seen it already.
I for one welcome our new avian overlords. All hail the mighty terror chickens!
And on topic of chickens, after having absorbed the launch box picture we got earlier, I'm just not sure about having that many beakies. They're plain, which isn't a problem per se, but it gives you nothing to distract you from the limited poses. Or limited options, like that plasma pistol arm for the sergeant.
The trouble is that launch box is probably the most cost effective way of laying your hands on that shiny Spartan. I hope we'll see pictures of any starter boxes before the launch box goes up for pre-order, just to confirm what's in the biggest one (provided GW follows the 40k and AoS model with Horus Heresy, of course). Not sure if GW is going to go with a set of terrain or try to lure people in with a tank instead, given there should be a slight aesthetic differences in architecture between 40k and 30k so they can't easily recycle existing terrain.
Repeating of which falsehood, incidentally, is doubly hilarious in HH subforum as the big success of 30K was caused by FW basing it entirely on his work, 5th edition providing the entire framework for the rules that made it explode in popularity. Well, until hacks who took over AB passing decided to ruin HH by switching to 7th edition, by far the worst one in 40K history (insert surprised pikachu face when it made HH tank)...
Mr Bligh contributed Significantly to the transition to '7.5', a cleaned up version of 7th. Calling the other writers 'hacks', including Andy Hoare, who not only wrote the single best IA in the form of IA13 and had written alongside Alan, but is significant as the only writer who's written 40k in all four of it's major incarnations as novel, rules for Citadel, rules for Forge World and the Fantasy Flight Games rpg, and is widely regarded as one of the most influential driving creative forces in the company for decades, is really demonstrating for the rest of us how utterly worthless your 'hot take' is.
And you come for Phil Kelly?!? Let me tell you, sunshine, that Phil Kelly's Ork Codex, written midway through 4th, was winning me tournaments right up till the final days of 5th edition, even against the Grey Knights, the necron flying circus, blood angels and the rest. That man is solid gold and on the strength of that book alone, I'd fight someone at a bar dissing him.
As to 'ruin', sorry to burst your bubble, but HH has done nothing but increase in sales year on year. Why on terra do you think it's being transferred to a plastics-driven game with a giant boxed set? Is this the new 'wisdom' of the 'Heresy is Dead' rabble now? Your entire post reads like you opened your mouth to say something and the only noise to escape was the honking of an entire flock of geese.
Right, where was I? Ah yes. Contemptor dreadnoughts and heads, I'd suggest taking a good look at Quin Xa's base, there's a body falling out of a contemptor, the head is not a helm in that case, the body has slushed out, sans arms and is hanging forward. The Contemptor's 'head' remains in place. In this case it is clearly a sensory link, in the same way as a Knight's head.
And yes, 40k Space Wolves are truly awful. I hate what they've done to them. 30k Space Wolves are much better but let down by some seriously bad sculpts (we know which ones) and unfortunately also indulge in that 'Masters of the Universe' 80s toy vibe. I'm tempted to do wolves for myself and just do a small amount of runework/knotwork on them and the occasional pelt. Like the images from the book.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Fronteris seems pretty skull-free if that's a concern.
True, but in my opinion fighting over a remote far or a frontier town isn't exemplary of the grand scale of the Horus Heresy. And the terrain isn't exactly modular and able to build a more diverse, larger urban board.
But hey, we'll see what GW has in store soon enough.
Might be a day or so late, but re the dreadnaughts and heads. Angel exterminatus clears that up. Its still a body in a tank but the magos explains they give them heads because it makes it easier for the pilot to adjust to seeing and feeling through the dreadnaught's senses if they have a head to turn.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Do they exist from Forgeworld? Do they still sell them? Will they once this stuff starts to drop?
FW drops things at random all the time, and we've seen lots of HH things going the way of the Squa... uh... wait that doesn't work anymore... going the way of the Dodo for a while now.
The 40k boxnought has regular, venerable and ironclad versions. I wouldn't be surprised if the "missing" Contemptor weapons showed up in alternate versions of that chassis.
GoatboyBeta wrote: The 40k boxnought has regular, venerable and ironclad versions. I wouldn't be surprised if the "missing" Contemptor weapons showed up in alternate versions of that chassis.
Happened with the Iconoclast Warmaster - sell you a different kit if you want those options, even if you just want the one model.
FW replied on their fb that the missing weapons might come as upgrade sprues, similar to Titanicus.
I just wonder whether we will see plastic upgrades for legions or will there be new resin versions, since the new Orlock upgrades are still resin.
And the recent Gang upgrades from GW were all plastic. The Ash Wastes pack is the exception.
Also, it wouldn't make much sense to remove all the resin Contemptor options just to bring them back in resin, would it?
Except the Legion specific variants have all been kept. So either FW is hanging onto 20 Contemptor bodies and 4 Leviathan bodies for no reason, or the weapons fit the same as before.
And on topic of chickens, after having absorbed the launch box picture we got earlier, I'm just not sure about having that many beakies. They're plain, which isn't a problem per se, but it gives you nothing to distract you from the limited poses. Or limited options, like that plasma pistol arm for the sergeant.
The trouble is that launch box is probably the most cost effective way of laying your hands on that shiny Spartan.
Yeah, much as I love the beakie, 40 beakies at once seems excessive, especially on top of 10 Termies. But the price tag on the Spartan separately is going to be insane. Unless the whole package is an insanely good discount, I may just settle for a couple of boxes of beakies separately later on.
I'm expecting the Spartan to be the same price as the Ork Kill Rig. Larger than the Repulsor Executioner, but not full superheavy or centerpiece price, especially since Marines.
Launch boxes are always a really good discount, same with starter sets. I have no doubt in my mind that getting all of that separately will be painfully expensive, you just need to decide if you want everything in the box.
Gert wrote: Launch boxes are always a really good discount, same with starter sets. I have no doubt in my mind that getting all of that separately will be painfully expensive, you just need to decide if you want everything in the box.
Going by Indomitus and Dominion, roughly at 200-250% markup after release, and that doesn't count the rulebook, and does count getting the basic stuff in starter sets.
Given this is basically the core of an entire army, its going to be real pricey individually.
Cool, hopefully this means the preorders for CK boxes will be smooth, what with many eyes directed at this presentation instead of clogging up the webstores.
And yes, 40k Space Wolves are truly awful. I hate what they've done to them. 30k Space Wolves are much better but let down by some seriously bad sculpts (we know which ones) and unfortunately also indulge in that 'Masters of the Universe' 80s toy vibe. I'm tempted to do wolves for myself and just do a small amount of runework/knotwork on them and the occasional pelt. Like the images from the book.
Spoiler:
That's a good look and not much more ostentatious than other legions.
Repeating of which falsehood, incidentally, is doubly hilarious in HH subforum as the big success of 30K was caused by FW basing it entirely on his work, 5th edition providing the entire framework for the rules that made it explode in popularity. Well, until hacks who took over AB passing decided to ruin HH by switching to 7th edition, by far the worst one in 40K history (insert surprised pikachu face when it made HH tank)...
Mr Bligh contributed Significantly to the transition to '7.5', a cleaned up version of 7th. Calling the other writers 'hacks', including Andy Hoare, who not only wrote the single best IA in the form of IA13 and had written alongside Alan, but is significant as the only writer who's written 40k in all four of it's major incarnations as novel, rules for Citadel, rules for Forge World and the Fantasy Flight Games rpg, and is widely regarded as one of the most influential driving creative forces in the company for decades, is really demonstrating for the rest of us how utterly worthless your 'hot take' is.
And you come for Phil Kelly?!? Let me tell you, sunshine, that Phil Kelly's Ork Codex, written midway through 4th, was winning me tournaments right up till the final days of 5th edition, even against the Grey Knights, the necron flying circus, blood angels and the rest. That man is solid gold and on the strength of that book alone, I'd fight someone at a bar dissing him.
As to 'ruin', sorry to burst your bubble, but HH has done nothing but increase in sales year on year. Why on terra do you think it's being transferred to a plastics-driven game with a giant boxed set? Is this the new 'wisdom' of the 'Heresy is Dead' rabble now? Your entire post reads like you opened your mouth to say something and the only noise to escape was the honking of an entire flock of geese.
Right, where was I? Ah yes. Contemptor dreadnoughts and heads, I'd suggest taking a good look at Quin Xa's base, there's a body falling out of a contemptor, the head is not a helm in that case, the body has slushed out, sans arms and is hanging forward. The Contemptor's 'head' remains in place. In this case it is clearly a sensory link, in the same way as a Knight's head.
And yes, 40k Space Wolves are truly awful. I hate what they've done to them. 30k Space Wolves are much better but let down by some seriously bad sculpts (we know which ones) and unfortunately also indulge in that 'Masters of the Universe' 80s toy vibe. I'm tempted to do wolves for myself and just do a small amount of runework/knotwork on them and the occasional pelt. Like the images from the book.
God I love that middle armour. Mk2 armour is my fav and that piece of art work almost got me to do a pre russ era space wolves army. But sadly they lost out to stompy robots, mechadendrites, 'the flesh is weak' and toaster pron. God I love the way FW did the mechanicum in the HH game. Such a fun army to hobby with. Just keep the abominations that are the plastic kits away from HH era stuff and im golden. I hope they eventually do a proper dark mechanicum army.... please make it Xana II so its in line with my titans please FW....please.
This kit os going to be north of 500$ bones in Canadian monopoly money. Tough sell. Wish they did mk2 armour instead of beakies but I get wanting to push the 'siege of terra' narrative so they can still tie it into the BL books. I kinda wish instead of revamping HH they just made a 'siege of terra' game or even better The Scouring....now the Scouring would be a amazing time for GW to delve into. Can play in the HH era, siege of terra era and the scouring. Can play Legions of Chapters. Mk7 is around ( which I personally dislike but to each their own), can make new chapters up using legion rules, just so much potential there with tons of room for expansion. Whats left to do after the GC, HH and SoT? they can't keep going back and shoehorning in new models ( the old its always been there we just never showed it before excuse) so this would of given them a out to keep moving forward and they can introduce new stuff. Oh some random IronHands great company made this variant up, some one found xeno tech and adapted it with some shady Adeptus Mechanicus guys etc etc.
I do hope we see plastic mark 2 that looks as good as the resin models. That's what I would like to base a white scars army on all wearing mk2 armour.
I've been watching HH for a long time. I've got a Dark Angels army with the Calth and Prospero Boxes. I'm going to buy the new box because I want everything in it but I've been toying with the idea of playing Word Bearers. What are everyone's thoughts on using the new possessed models to represent the Gal Vorbak? I know the face plates are the biggest differences but I'm toying with whether these would be compatible with the HH system.
boyd wrote: I've been watching HH for a long time. I've got a Dark Angels army with the Calth and Prospero Boxes. I'm going to buy the new box because I want everything in it but I've been toying with the idea of playing Word Bearers. What are everyone's thoughts on using the new possessed models to represent the Gal Vorbak? I know the face plates are the biggest differences but I'm toying with whether these would be compatible with the HH system.
Yeah you’d be fine I think. Similar size, nothing jumps out on them that wouldn’t be in 30k (and explained by mutations anyway). I prefer the Gal Vorbak personally, but these are pretty good. (Probably want to change the dead Primaris under the one guys foot though).
Ouch, good first impression but it just looks worse and worse the more I look. Like, all terminators take some suspension of disbelief about how they fit in that big armor but the way he's leaning I can't figure out where the hell his shoulders could be, like when you turn your head your chin comes right near your shoulder... except his is like a foot away, and there's something about the angle of his torso that makes it worse.
(Is there a reason he has the ridiculous sword shape?)
feth yes. Awesome model. Those two tactical rocks are a blessing though as it makes it soooo much easier to cut them off and place him on the ground normally. I hope twin-tactical rocks becomes the new norm.
Snrub wrote: feth yes. Awesome model. Those two tactical rocks are a blessing though as it makes it soooo much easier to cut them off and place him on the ground normally. I hope twin-tactical rocks becomes the new norm.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Ouch, good first impression but it just looks worse and worse the more I look. Like, all terminators take some suspension of disbelief about how they fit in that big armor but the way he's leaning I can't figure out where the hell his shoulders could be, like when you turn your head your chin comes right near your shoulder... except his is like a foot away, and there's something about the angle of his torso that makes it worse.
(Is there a reason he has the ridiculous sword shape?)
Yeah, there's a good reason for the shape. Totally over the top and very warhammer-esque reason.
Bunch of new leaks, including the new tank, and plastic Rhino. The weapon upgrades seem to confirm that the new Bolters are one piece with both hands modelled on.
Spoiler:
I have spoilered these for size - but also because I know some people will fall into a spiral of impossible despair at not seeing these with the accompanying BUY ME, NOW text and charisma-less presenters telling you to buy them.
Wasn't there a rumour that 30k & 40k kits will be 'locked' to those games only (which is why the plastic box Castraferrum dreadnoughts & Indomitus terminators have been dropped from 30k)?
Kratos looks like the Sicaran and Fellblade had a baby. It feels a lot busier than the Sicaran though, which I guess is how you can tell it's the newer kit (gotta fill it with DETAIL).
Yeah, glad to see an accessory pack. I wouldn't be surprised if the sponson mounts and accesory pack are on their own sprue - the sponsons are universal across all legion vehicles
Hm... kinda "meh" on the Kratos, actually... it just feels like a small Fellblade/fat sicaran, and I never felt there was a need of something in between.
The Iliastus? That's what concerns me. Only the Blood Angels and Fists had them and it's not like armour patterns or vehicles that were in widespread production across various Forge Worlds as these were only made in the Sol System on the Iliastus Satellite by the Dyzanique who were loyal to the Emperor.
It looks like the current Iliastus AC from FW, which is my point. If the AC is now a generic weapon I'll be disappointed because it really shouldn't be.
tneva82 wrote: Well the battles reqular players do aren't exactly grand in scale to begin with. Guess somebody out there plays 100k a side but not many
If only there was a game out there for truly EPIC battles, something that would allow for the EPIC scale of the Heresy.
tneva82 wrote: Well the battles reqular players do aren't exactly grand in scale to begin with. Guess somebody out there plays 100k a side but not many
If only there was a game out there for truly EPIC battles, something that would allow for the EPIC scale of the Heresy.
tneva82 wrote: Well the battles reqular players do aren't exactly grand in scale to begin with. Guess somebody out there plays 100k a side but not many
If only there was a game out there for truly EPIC battles, something that would allow for the EPIC scale of the Heresy.
That would be EPIC.
Epic indeed ^^
Never going to happen again. Better look for 3rd company´s products for that regard.
tneva82 wrote: Well the battles reqular players do aren't exactly grand in scale to begin with. Guess somebody out there plays 100k a side but not many
If only there was a game out there for truly EPIC battles, something that would allow for the EPIC scale of the Heresy.
That would be EPIC.
Epic indeed ^^
Never going to happen again. Better look for 3rd company´s products for that regard.
Oh, I don't need to look anymore
Spoiler:
And taking into account what GW likes to do nowadays with their rulesets (just take a look at Bookcromunda), I'm very happy with Epic 40k 3rd edition, thankyouverymuch
tneva82 wrote: Well the battles reqular players do aren't exactly grand in scale to begin with. Guess somebody out there plays 100k a side but not many
If only there was a game out there for truly EPIC battles, something that would allow for the EPIC scale of the Heresy.
That would be EPIC.
Perhaps such an epic game, if taking place during the Horus Heresy, could be named after the WARMASTER himself? Or named for all of the MEN OF WAR taking part?
I disagree actually, I think it looks like a Predator's more menacing older brother.
I can actually see me adding one to my motor pool of "HH era vehicles that'll never see play, I just like to paint a feth off big tank once in a while" collection, and that's genuinely the first GW thing I've seen in a while I will almost certainly buy at some point.
Wasn't there a rumour that 30k & 40k kits will be 'locked' to those games only (which is why the plastic box Castraferrum dreadnoughts & Indomitus terminators have been dropped from 30k)?
I heard that too! I've heard that first born marines will be going away to being HH only models. The primaris have won the war and have become the new 40K marines.
Wasn't there a rumour that 30k & 40k kits will be 'locked' to those games only (which is why the plastic box Castraferrum dreadnoughts & Indomitus terminators have been dropped from 30k)?
I heard that too! I've heard that first born marines will be going away to being HH only models. The primaris have won the war and have become the new 40K marines.
Makes sense. GW definitely wants to turn away extra money from their primary player base. They wouldn't want 40k players buying these marines, because... uh... yeah.
Yeah, I was really trying to turn that into a joke, but that rumor is just too dumb to sustain.
Wasn't there a rumour that 30k & 40k kits will be 'locked' to those games only (which is why the plastic box Castraferrum dreadnoughts & Indomitus terminators have been dropped from 30k)?
I heard that too! I've heard that first born marines will be going away to being HH only models. The primaris have won the war and have become the new 40K marines.
Makes sense. GW definitely wants to turn away extra money from their primary player base. They wouldn't want 40k players buying these marines, because... uh... yeah.
Yeah, I was really trying to turn that into a joke, but that rumor is just too dumb to sustain.
There is of course the chance what they think they can do is get people to buy two marine armies instead of one.
Voss wrote: Yeah, I was really trying to turn that into a joke, but that rumor is just too dumb to sustain.
The 'logic' behind the rumour is that profits from 40k and 30k will be separate, and GW doesn't want a Specialist Game eating into the profits of it's main game - which is just about dumb enough to be believable.
Thanks, Destrado and I don't know what the hell your problem is, JSG, I was literally asking if I was missing something in my reception of the sword, not rejecting it out of hand, and wasn't making a realism argument, I think it looks ugly and silly.
Wasn't there a rumour that 30k & 40k kits will be 'locked' to those games only (which is why the plastic box Castraferrum dreadnoughts & Indomitus terminators have been dropped from 30k)?
I heard that too! I've heard that first born marines will be going away to being HH only models. The primaris have won the war and have become the new 40K marines.
Makes sense. GW definitely wants to turn away extra money from their primary player base. They wouldn't want 40k players buying these marines, because... uh... yeah.
Yeah, I was really trying to turn that into a joke, but that rumor is just too dumb to sustain.
There is of course the chance what they think they can do is get people to buy two marine armies instead of one.
Three. They're already doing that in 40k itself, though some customers are doubling down on one or other, but that isn't a bad outcome for GW either. Four if you count chaos. And some people have long done that with the various marine subfactions, where they had/have two or three distinct armies of red marines, blue marines and green marines.
Which is the point, really. Some people get really caught up in who releases are 'for' (especially for start collecting boxes), but the reality is GW just wants to sell them and doesn't care who buys them or what happens next (beyond that they'd also like to sell glue, brushes and paints). That they'd somehow artificially stop people from using marines as marines in different games... its too much the old 'come to your house and stop you playing it wrong' joke.
Here's me, with careful modelling and the addition of an odd unit here or there, trying to build a traitor army that'd pull double duty as a CSM40K army.
Feel free to point and laugh at the stupid old fool everyone.
Azreal13 wrote: Here's me, with careful modelling and the addition of an odd unit here or there, trying to build a traitor army that'd pull double duty as a CSM40K army.
I'm doing the same with my Iron Hands - I like the Sabre & Arquitor but the lack of 40k rules has stopped me buying them.
Azreal13 wrote: Here's me, with careful modelling and the addition of an odd unit here or there, trying to build a traitor army that'd pull double duty as a CSM40K army.
I'm doing the same with my Iron Hands - I like the Sabre & Arquitor but the lack of 40k rules has stopped me buying them.
I haven't worried too much, I've just kept as much as possible valid for both. I have, rightly or wrongly, a soft spot for the dinobots, so I've got a Heldrake and a Maulerfiend for example. It's largely a painting project that might see the table some day though, I've got more transport capacity in painted vehicles than I have infantry to fill it, and I don't think I've got a valid HQ choice any more for either system.
But I digress, what I intended to say was I don't think buying a model you love that only works in one or the other system is the worst thing.
Dawnbringer wrote: I can't tell if you are arguing for or against my point.
For.
Most of the people in our HH group already had Marine armies in 40k. One uses his 40k Blood Angel vehicles for his HH army, another drafted his entire collection of Tartaros and Cataphractii to his HH Iron Hands. A lot of people also chose the Legions they already had as 40k Chapters and swapped things over if they needed a quick army booster.
tneva82 wrote: Well the battles reqular players do aren't exactly grand in scale to begin with. Guess somebody out there plays 100k a side but not many
If only there was a game out there for truly EPIC battles, something that would allow for the EPIC scale of the Heresy.
That would be EPIC.
Epic indeed ^^
Never going to happen again. Better look for 3rd company´s products for that regard.
Okay. And two years ago I believed we'd never see a near full conversion of HH to plastic, The Return of The Squats to happen either. But here we are.
Spoilers for the Kratos Tank, its datasheet leaked a while ago but I'll still just talk about it in spoiler tags for everyone else's sake.
Spoiler:
This thing has a STARTLING amount of gun. The main battlecannon alone has two shell-types by default, one S8 AP4 Heavy 1 Large Blast Pinning, the other S8 AP2 Heavy 2 Sunder. For +10 ppm you can add a third shot type that's S10 AP1 Heavy 1 Armorbane (Ranged) and Gets Hot. So right off the bat, the main gun can handle a lot of what you could face. You can also swap it out for a super-melta or a super-volkite. You can swap out the body heavy bolters for volkite calivers, lascannons, or more autocannons. You can swap out the free heavy bolter sponsons for free heavy flamers, lascannons, or volkite culverins. And it can take a pintle of essentially anything you want, heavy bolter, multimelta, havoc launcher, etc.
On top of that it's av is 14/14/14 with 5HP and the ability to take a flare shield. And you can take two to a squad for cheaper than two individually, which if you're like me and use a RoW that restricts your HS slots, is a good thing. Already thinking of doing a terror assault with three sabers, two of these, and maybe a fellblade variant as a kind of armored claw mechanized list. It does cost 300 points base but... man. That's worth it to me.
I'm planning going on starting at 2 Kratos and 2 sicarans for my initial prepreorder at the flgs. More may depend on price, variants, and whether they get 40k rules.
Thinking about it, while the fell blade is pretty popular, it is very similar as a kit to the baneblade. GW may as well take the HH as an opportunity to finally make the plastic thunderhawk, as the HH box can proof of concept the £240 price point.
We're probably more likely to see the already existing plastic thunderhawk for AI get re-used for plastic epic when that inevitably happens than actually get a plastic thunderhawk for 30/40k.
What, is using spoiler tags now politicized on dakka? More photos ought to be spoiler tagged really, for the sake of users on mobile devices. Or is it just more fun to insult other users?
If true, given how largely reliable the leaks have been until now, does it represent GW reading the room with regards to rampant inflation on nigh on everything in the UK and elsewhere and maybe dropping the price compared to original plans to ensure that the new HH starts with a bang?
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: If true, given how largely reliable the leaks have been until now, does it represent GW reading the room with regards to rampant inflation on nigh on everything in the UK and elsewhere and maybe dropping the price compared to original plans to ensure that the new HH starts with a bang?
The price rumours for the heresy stuff were never part of any more reliable leaks/rumours.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: If true, given how largely reliable the leaks have been until now, does it represent GW reading the room with regards to rampant inflation on nigh on everything in the UK and elsewhere and maybe dropping the price compared to original plans to ensure that the new HH starts with a bang?
The price rumours for the heresy stuff were never part of any more reliable leaks/rumours.
Ah, were they just people pulling numbers out of the air/making reasonable predictions? Nice to be shocked by a price for once in the right way.
Gert wrote: It looks like the current Iliastus AC from FW, which is my point. If the AC is now a generic weapon I'll be disappointed because it really shouldn't be.
Ok, so. If the price is actually right, and it's the same in euros, that should mean less than 225 euros for the box? That's... actually very reasonable, moreso for GW.
Albertorius wrote: Ok, so. If the price is actually right, and it's the same in euros, that should mean less than 225 euros for the box? That's... actually very reasonable, moreso for GW.
I would expect 250€ with a UK price close to 200 pounds
Gert wrote: It looks like the current Iliastus AC from FW, which is my point. If the AC is now a generic weapon I'll be disappointed because it really shouldn't be.
Spoiler:
These are Rotor Cannons, all the new weapons were sculpted by Will Hayes, who's been sculpting the HH since FW started this adventure.
Albertorius wrote: Ok, so. If the price is actually right, and it's the same in euros, that should mean less than 225 euros for the box? That's... actually very reasonable, moreso for GW.
I would expect 250€ with a UK price close to 200 pounds
€225 is the price of the last Necromunda, which is £180 pounds and $299. So... maybe, but then the change rate will be different because GW.
Boxed set under £200 apparently (I missed that myself, but I’m reliably informed) and I really like the special and heavy weapon approach.
Now. If they could just do a plakky Mastodon, I’ll be the happiest bunny in all of happy bunnydom.
The £200 thing is in the article too.
I think there’s much bigger priorities, but I would absolutely love a plastic Mastodon.
I just love the concept and design of the Mastodon. Breaches your wall, then serves as a drive-through for assault warriors, and not just the ones who hitched a ride.
Albertorius wrote: Ok, so. If the price is actually right, and it's the same in euros, that should mean less than 225 euros for the box? That's... actually very reasonable, moreso for GW.
I would expect 250€ with a UK price close to 200 pounds
€225 is the price of the last Necromunda, which is £180 pounds and $299. So... maybe, but then the change rate will be different because GW.
Thought that one was more but then I could also see 225.
Either its this price since they said under $300 or they change their US conversion and its more in Pounds and Euro which I don't think they will do
225 with Third Party discount would be around 200€ or less which would be nice
Luckily I don't like the Termis, so the box is not that tempting.
Is the plastic Rhino bigger than the current tiny boxes on tracks? I have zero Rhinos because they're laughably small, but with the upcoming World Eaters dex I *have* to continue my immediatly post-Heresy WEs and those Berzerkrers need Rhinos. The Spartan is a chunky boi, that's probably a buy.
I love the boxes with ALL the guns. Seriously, what guns? ALL OF THEM! A box of guns for Orks that provide more Freeboota-like shootas and blunderbusses, Kommandos silenced/tacticool weapons or similiar, the possibilities. 3d printing says hi, but boxes of plastics that can be easily converted further and stick to everything plastic without superglue would be a dream.
"Over 2000 points". The included list showed that it was 2001 points.
Haha! Classic GW, correct in fact but not so in spirit. I hope all you Heresy heads are stoked by these reveals, the weapon sets are a great bonus to those of you with armless resin bodies in your piles of shame. And if it is £199 odd that just looks so much better value than the £160 Chaos Knight box on preorder today.
Albertorius wrote: Haven't seen them, are they arms+guns, or only guns? If it's the second, fat chance.
They're arms and guns.
Well, then if it's the full arm, they really should fit...
Just saw the article... and it seems it's just weapon + hands, which would make them MkVI exclusive. Or, at least, harder to kitbash than otherwise.
On the stream they talked about getting an article up (not sure if they're committed to it, we'll see) on how the weapons fit on Mk.III and Mk.IV Marines.
I doubt special weapons will be an issue. The hands on them need to fit Mk.VI bolter hands, so they should fit bolter arms of other marks just fine. The heavy weapons are supposed to have their own Mk.VI arms for better poses. I expect you can convert other marks' arms with minimal trouble to accommodate the handheld weapons if they don't fit outright. I don't think the shoulder mounted ones will fit without heavy conversion or resorting to the Mk.VI ones, though.
I don’t really care about Horus Heresy or it’s lore or arguments about which legion used which mark when. This old man just looks at all of this and thinks, “Proper marines!!”
If I had guessed that MK3 and MK4 would rerelease in 20-man squads, I probably wouldn't have picked ten of each last week. Then again, doing so allows me at least a month of head start to jump on Heresy train.
It's worth pointing out that new Special and Heavy weapons have both their hands attached while MK3 and MK4 only have the right hand so they are not going to be 100% compatible. However, for many guns it's probably as easy as chopping the left hand from MK3 and MK4 arms and eyeballing that the arms are aligned.
MK6 is not my cup of hot beverage but if the box ends being cheaper than Ash Wastes then I can see it being worth it for rules, Spartan, Contemptor, Terminators and characters alone.
I'm kind of curious how they're going to handle the pricing for this system overall. It looks like they're releasing the tactical squads in boxes of 20, with a significant upsell in the form of the weapons packs.
So are the 20 MK VI Marines with bolters going to be $110 (2X the current cost of the MKIII 10 packs?) Or do they charge $75 for the 20 marines knowing that a huge percentage will also be purchased with the weapon upgrade packs, putting the average cost slightly higher than the current primaris 10 man squad?
And what do we assume the price of the weapons upgrade kits will be? I'm guessing ~$50 as the Necromunda upgrades, which are relatively small cost $27.
And what of the earlier marks of armor? Is there a discount to the old marks of armor in the repack? Or is the new going rate for a tac squad now >$100?
In any case, I think the presence of upgrade weapon packs diminishes the value of the box set a bit, but overall still seems reasonable.
Albertorius wrote: Haven't seen them, are they arms+guns, or only guns? If it's the second, fat chance.
They're arms and guns.
Well, then if it's the full arm, they really should fit...
Just saw the article... and it seems it's just weapon + hands, which would make them MkVI exclusive. Or, at least, harder to kitbash than otherwise.
Given how much smaller the Mk III and MK IV plastic models are than recent models, I have my doubts that the arms would fit on them
I’m wondering if perhaps we’ll find the Heavy Weapons in particular come with optional parts for the grips. One with both hands attached, the other with the left hand removed?
Purely speculation of course. I’ll see if I can find a sprue pic.
I am well buzzed by these reveals! Only thing they left out was a Mk VI Assault Squad.
I especially love how they kept the Rogue Trader era special & Heavy weapons looking like they always did - Missile Launcher, Plasma & Lascannon being shoulder mounted and everything!
The only thing which reminds me I haven't died and gone to heaven is the fact that despite all this glorious RT era Space Marine goodness, there will only be 5 discreet poses for the Mk VI. Converting those 5 into more variety will be the holy grail
They’re not massively smaller than the MkVI, which are smaller than CSM.
And with this, all enthusiasm has deserted me. I’d convinced myself the new beakies were the same size as CSM. I’m done with mini-marines. I think I’m done with marines altogether.
Albertorius wrote: Haven't seen them, are they arms+guns, or only guns? If it's the second, fat chance.
They're arms and guns.
Well, then if it's the full arm, they really should fit...
Just saw the article... and it seems it's just weapon + hands, which would make them MkVI exclusive. Or, at least, harder to kitbash than otherwise.
Given how much smaller the Mk III and MK IV plastic models are than recent models, I have my doubts that the arms would fit on them
They’re not massively smaller than the MkVI, which are smaller than CSM.
Yeah, they don't look massively bigger, just better proportioned:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tauist wrote: The only thing which reminds me I haven't died and gone to heaven is the fact that despite all this glorious RT era Space Marine goodness, there will only be 5 discreet poses for the Mk VI. Converting those 5 into more variety will be the holy grail
Looks to me like they’re about the same size/proportions as the Space Marine Heroes Series 1 models. I think that pic’s a bit misleading as the MkVI guy’s leaning towards the camera less than the marines either side.
I'm no expert on beakies but that price is crazy good (by GW standards), isn't it? At probably 195-199 GBP we're looking at 250-260 EUR, and I thought 300 was being optimisitc.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm no expert on beakies but that price is crazy good (by GW standards), isn't it? At probably 195-199 GBP we're looking at 250-260 EUR, and I thought 300 was being optimisitc.
Well, as said above, the Newcromunda Ash Wastes box costs $299, and that's 225 euros, so...
I'm no expert on beakies, is the reason missile launcher box has fewer guns than any other box because it's the only one that has to include arms, and it maybe has arms for all the pre-heresy marks? All other guns seem to fit on the bolter arms at the wrists.
I was bracing for £240 or $399 myself, so $299 is much improved. Frees up some hobby budget for deimos rhinos and weapon packs. And for the contents, it feels like Indomitus levels of value.
That's from the same batch as the pic I posted above, but without the plastic Mk IV marine that kinda devalues the assertion of them being "the same size" as plastic marines:
A bit taller, rather. Still, I don't expect that difference would be any problem at all.
