Bonus to cover save is just that, a modifier to a dice roll. It doesn't concern line of sight or anything else that cover might result in, as those are not cover saves.

Just noticed I was reading dread all this time as a simple +1 12" aura...

dread: Your opponent must add 1 to morale tests for any enemy units within 12" of the ctan shard of the deceiver.

Am I wrong? Or does this mean that dread is a battlefield effect of +x equal to the number of units I keep around the Deciever?

ex: Put Ctan in middle of formation with 10 units in range. +10 morale tests for enemies globally so that as long as I inflict a loss you're going to in essence take even more loses because you will likely fail that morale?!?

No, the opponent must add 1 to the morale test of the unit if it is within 12" of the C'tan. Thats how I read/play it. So if there is 3 units within 12", all three add 1 to their morale test, not each squad adds 3 to their morale.

I assumed it was just badly worded so im glad I asked.

Cause it's talking about your opponent as the target and then 'enemy units' so I thought 'Enemy of my opponent… So my guys?'


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do Nemesors Zhandresks - Quell the rebellion and/or Illuminors Ballistics Skill augmentation stack with my will be done for the purpose of raising Immortals Tesla effect?

ex: If I got lucky on one turn and managed to upgrade an immortal squads BS with Illuminor and then added the Quell the rebllion bonus and MWBD, would Tesla trigger on 3+ ?

Sure I cant raise the to hit higher then 2+ but those extra free hits, especially if I am most likely pairing them with a trageting array bonus from the Triarch to reroll ones...

Making BS better is not the same as adding 1 to the roll.

Yeah, as above. Improving BS just means they hit on a 2+. Has nothing to do with the roll. It is an indication of what you need to roll to be successful. +1 to the hit roll affects every dice rolled when determining to hit.

Is it better to give warriors or immortals thy will be done or any other units? Or does it depend on the target?

 Klowny wrote:
and a 6+ FNP

I'm guessing that's coming from the warlord trait because he doesn't have one natively. Of course, he will almost certainly lose this when the codex comes out and he's given a Thousand Sons-unique trait.

BillyN831 wrote:
Is it better to give warriors or immortals thy will be done or any other units? Or does it depend on the target?

Situational. It's good to have an idea about what it does to various units, ie how much they are boosted.

I played this list today.
Played versus Ultramarines + Roboute Guilliman + FW tanks.
Won by objectives but almost has been tabled.




TOP 1 unit is scarabs, they did amazing - screening units and soacking wounds.
Annihilation badges did okay, heavy destroyers put some damage but didn't do much.

Was your ghost ark not "handicap'd" because of the 5" movement of the warriors (presuming you used it as a mobile Res orb) and that the unit size was 20 so you couldn't even carry them?

How did the Gauss Cannon Annihilation/command barge go? I usually play the Tesla Cannon to save points and to prevent mobility issues.

Did you not feel that having both a THGC Triarch Stalker and 3 Heavy Destroyers a bit redundant? I presume you used the Stalker to allow your DDA to re-roll 1s but because the 3 Heavy Ds already re-roll 1s wouldn't it have been better to bring a Second DDA or THGC Triarch Stalker instead of the Heavy Ds?

Also surprised by no Tesla Immortals, nearly everyone has them as auto-takes.

So I'm restarting Necrons again in the near future and having been looking things over and I'm aiming for the following list.

Zandrekh
Obyron

10x Immortals - Tesla
10x Immortals - Tesla
10x Immortals - Gauss

Deceiver
10x Lychguard - Warsycthes

Annihilation Barge - Gauss Cannon

Obelisk (Just because I love it)

So obviously the idea is use Deceiver to get him and Zandrekh close to the enemy (in cover preferably), if I can I'll take the Gauss Immortals as well, once movement is over, bring obyron and lychguard to Zandrekh with Obyrons ability, drop the obelisk on the opposite side of the lychguard and obyron. Unload all the fire I can into the enemy and hopefully whittle them down and then charge with Obyron and Lychguard and open the enemy up. Whilst the Tesla immortals protect back field an grab objectives

What are peoples thoughts?

You might love the model, but the Obelisk is a pretty huge liability at the moment.
Hopefully they can fix it a little by the time the update rolls around in December, then it might be playable. Until then, that's a lot of points tied up in something that's really not worth it.

Kal - Just be careful cause this strat relies heavily on turn 1 and if you aren't first in init and cant seize it then you dont want to deliver a bunch of targets into shooting range to get picked off etc.

For something like this I prefer running my leadership (save obyron so he can ghost walk a squad up and they charge into melee not bound by Grand illusions no charge stipulation) in a ghost ark when I have 2+ HQ's other then Obyron and then Grand illusioning them all forward with 1 units worth of movement and then take infantry squads up with the 2 or 3 that you hopefully get (if you get a 1 reroll and if you get a one again I'd march instead of being risky with only one forward squad). But if you're running ghost ark you should run at least one unit of warriors to keep them being annoying with 2 Re Prots a turn..


Yeah unless the enemy is running a decent amount of units with fly the obelisks grav flux wont come into play at all. If you want the stronger tesla i'd go Tesseract Vault instead for the 3 powers a turn shenanigans and the TV can easily be a target of a 1 dice roll Grand illusion since it's survivable on its own (plus counters its low ass movement).

You should probably attach at least 1 cryptek to the group to raise the re prots to 4 and to give invul saves to give those small 10 man groups more suitability so that it's more likely they will get a Re prot.

If you keep the column together your warscythe lychguard can also protect your leaders from the back as you march and have the 5+ invul while using warscythes.

 Odrankt wrote:
Was your ghost ark not "handicap'd" because of the 5" movement of the warriors (presuming you used it as a mobile Res orb) and that the unit size was 20 so you couldn't even carry them?

How did the Gauss Cannon Annihilation/command barge go? I usually play the Tesla Cannon to save points and to prevent mobility issues.

Did you not feel that having both a THGC Triarch Stalker and 3 Heavy Destroyers a bit redundant? I presume you used the Stalker to allow your DDA to re-roll 1s but because the 3 Heavy Ds already re-roll 1s wouldn't it have been better to bring a Second DDA or THGC Triarch Stalker instead of the Heavy Ds?

Also surprised by no Tesla Immortals, nearly everyone has them as auto-takes.

1. Ghost ark didn't carry them, just work as extra shooting & reanimation.
2. Annihilation gauss did nothing but Tesla did VERY well
3. Generally i found that keeping Destroyers alive is issue. They are so easy to kill
4. I don't have models yet, the issue with Tesla immortals is delivery. You have to deliver them to cover so they will have 2+ save. Deceiver can help but he's too expensive. I'm trying to experiment with them.

Anyone have advice on what kind of map I should build for a virtual table top for a destroyer centrist outrider detachment? Or does the Destroyer detachment just not have enough outgoing firepower to make it viable?

Or if I make it 2k what should I consider as additions for the 500?

1500
1 Staff Destroyer lord - 177 + rez orb (might drop staff and make him a melee for another scarab...)
1 Cryptek - 104
3x Destroyer Squad - 5x destroyers, 1x heavy = 1170
3x Scarabs 39

Im thinking heavy city ruins since they are infantry so they can take advantage of cover and flier so they can jump between builds and don’t take to hit penalty for moving so just keep them jumping back as stuff moves in and keep em at max range as you plink em down.

I want the cryptek in case of AP 3+ weapons since those usually do enough damage to make the 3 wounds on a destroyer mute. but I think he's gonna hobble the rest of the team cause of his movement being 1/2 of their and not being a flyer so not as manueverable... Granted since im trying to get the whole team within range of the D lord anyway~ it shouldn't be too much of an issue to adjust...

Hmm, maybe I should keep it ground level instead... Maybe trench lines or shifting wall emplacements?

I personally feel that Destroyers are too expensive and too easy to kill.

IMO the strongest Necrons ability is Quantum Shielding right now so maxing QS units is way to go.

I have a game vs AD-Mech this Friday. I've never played vs them before and don't know what they got with their new codex. I was planning on some immortals and maybe a stalker/destroyers to deal with any annoying robots they have. Any tips? Anyone played them before? Thanks in advance

They have absolutely devastating firepower, will out shoot you in a firefight. They can bring knights, so your going to need some good AT, a pylon would bode well here, because they also have onager dunecrawlers, which are some of the best imperium tanks available, quietly underrated by most.

The big robots are absolutely disgusting, scary to fight, can bounce back shots onto you and put out serious dakka. They can be tied up in combat which completely negated their damage, unless they have chosen the CC route, but the CC route is the weaker option.

They have the best sniper rifles in the game, so dont bring characters, S7 ap-4 D6 damage or something like that, on 60" range weapons.

Good luck mah frand

Quantum Shielding might help. They have d6 damage output so it might prevent damage. They suck in melee to delivering units to melee range might work too.

I've played couple games vs Mechanicum but without their codex. Won both because of QS and my scarabs - scarabs charged in melee and also blocked Knight - they do not have Infanity keyword so Knoght can not just go over them

To win with QS you need to spam it heavily, I brought a TA and a DDA against 2 onagers and a knight, lost one and the second was crippled before they got to do anything (didnt get first turn).

Would it ever be worth it to bring TWO G-Pylons?
That would be half your list at 950 points, and you'd be seriously hurting for CP... but fill out the rest of your ranks with Stalkers and Scarabs and you might actually have something, there.

Pylon is very cool if you're okay with FW. I personally stick with GW products

 skoffs wrote:
Would it ever be worth it to bring TWO G-Pylons?
That would be half your list at 950 points, and you'd be seriously hurting for CP... but fill out the rest of your ranks with Stalkers and Scarabs and you might actually have something, there.

You’ll have very little to deal with hordes, in that build.

Well, if you gave a few of the Stalkers Particle Shedders that might work.
That's 1991.

Two pylons I dont think is the answer to much, I've found it either blasts stuff off the board every turn, or whiffs everything and explodes.

Additionally, you would be seriously hurting against any army that doesn't have many vehicles.

So either a single G-Pylon and a bunch of anti-horde, or a bunch of Tesseract Arks and Scarabs.
...
If these are our only viable options then I'll hold off until December.

I have had some good success with having an anti-tank and anti-infantry groups.

For toughness 6 and above I like using Triarch Stalker w/ THGC, Canoptek Tomb Sentinel and Tesseract Ark.

For Toughness 5 and below I usually go with a Triarch Stalker w/ Particle Shredder, Gauss Tomb Blades and Tesla Immortals.

Hey all, first time poster here!

Managed to get my first game of 8th in this weekend (first game of 40k in around 15 years...), took my lil rusty robot skeletons for a spin.

It was only 700 points or so, but really happy with how they performed. The Triarch Stalker in particular was an absolute beast, hosing down Terminators and Captains with relative ease, and finally stomping on a Librarian to take his final wound.

I figure RP has a much larger impact at smaller point values than higher ones, I ended the game with most of my causalities aside from the scarabs back in play.

Anyway, already got plans to expand up to 1000 points and get some proper games under my belt

 unitled wrote:
Hey all, first time poster here!

Managed to get my first game of 8th in this weekend (first game of 40k in around 15 years...), took my lil rusty robot skeletons for a spin.

It was only 700 points or so, but really happy with how they performed. The Triarch Stalker in particular was an absolute beast, hosing down Terminators and Captains with relative ease, and finally stomping on a Librarian to take his final wound.

I figure RP has a much larger impact at smaller point values than higher ones, I ended the game with most of my causalities aside from the scarabs back in play.

Anyway, already got plans to expand up to 1000 points and get some proper games under my belt

Great! Small points games are great for us indeed, allowing RP to work. I was much in the same place myself last year, picking up 40k again (with a group of friends in a similar position) after almost 20 years

 Klowny wrote:
They have absolutely devastating firepower, will out shoot you in a firefight. They can bring knights, so your going to need some good AT, a pylon would bode well here, because they also have onager dunecrawlers, which are some of the best imperium tanks available, quietly underrated by most.

The big robots are absolutely disgusting, scary to fight, can bounce back shots onto you and put out serious dakka. They can be tied up in combat which completely negated their damage, unless they have chosen the CC route, but the CC route is the weaker option.

They have the best sniper rifles in the game, so dont bring characters, S7 ap-4 D6 damage or something like that, on 60" range weapons.

Good luck mah frand

Thanks. It's going to be a friendly game and I think he has max 1500 points. So I don't expect any knights. I am very scared of those kastellan robots though.
I have some ideas about what to bring which I'll post in a spoilers since I can ramble on sometimes.

Hey guys, another long time reader first time writer.
After near 15 years away (hey Untitled!), I decided to get back into 40k, and since I loved Tomb Kings when they still existed, my army choice was obvious.
First I want to thank you all for sharing your knowledge here, this thread was/is a tremendous help for me.

I played my 2nd game last Friday, and wanted to share my experience:

We played 1500pt and my opponent brought a rather nasty list of Rave Guard.



I did not know what I was up against beforehand, so my hopes of winning where low after seeing him unpacking his Stormravens. I heard a lot about that unit so I knew that they are bad news, especially since I didn't bring much AT firepower, and my opponent was way more experienced than me (ok, almost everybody is).

Well, to make things short:
I won after turn 5, and almost tabled him.
By then he had only one Stormraven left, and I lost my DDA, the scarabs and the NB.

Here is what I found:

Overlord: Took him mostly for buffing my Immortals, which worked great. I gave him the staff for more versatility, but wished i'd gone with the WS instead after my opponent dropped some bikes on his head. The staffs short range and damage output didn't do much, but the WS really would have helped even tough its situational. So no more staff in the future.

Immortals: The cornerstone of my army. They stayed in cover the whole game an electrocuted everything that came too close. The RP and 2+ sv on these guys made them super tough, and after a while my opponent just gave up and stayed away.

Deathmarks: I tried to kill Shrike with them, since his aura was really annoying, giving his Stormravens and Scouts infinite rerolls. But I lost 5 the moment they arrived due to a stratagem which gave my opponent the ability to shoot them in my turn. After that they only (still) put two wounds on Shrike, and then got wiped the following turn. Well, not their fault really, so I'll give them another chance.

TB: Wow! I read here that they are good, but they exceeded all my expectations! I flew them from cover to cover, giving them 2+ saves, and they kept getting back up like champs. They downed all the Scouts, courtesy of the scopes (6+ sv instead of 4+ sv helped a lot), and took an insane amount of firepower in return. After I killed Shrike (he got cocky and tried to kill the TBs in melee, but failed miserably and then got shot in the face the next turn) my opponent got so frustrated that he used one Stormraven to shoot every weapon it had on them which killed three, but saw them getting back up in the following turns. To be fair, my opponent said that he never faced them before and seriously underestimated them. Still they are an auto-include from now on.

Nightbringer: Didn't do much, but there were no valuable targets for him. I was afraid of his scouts and their 36” sniper rifles with all the rerolls from Shrike and the lieutenant, so he stayed in cover the whole game and then got blasted to bits after trying to down the Blackstar in melee. Will exchange him for something more shooty, since I think that thats where our strengths are. To his defence, in my first game he rocked with his Gaze of Death (kind of proving my point).

Scarabs: Not much to say. They're good at what they do. Fast and tough. After the NB was killed I used them to hold an objective, and they did until the end, even with being focus fired from the Blackstar.

Triarch Stalker: Did quite well. His buff was handy, and he managed to shoot down one of the Stormravens with some lucky rolls. He endured an immense amount of firepower, with hot rolls for QS. Such a great ability! Drove my Opponent to the point that he begged his dice to roll low on damage.

DDA: I knew that the genreal consensus here is that they are too unreliable to be useful, but I like the model and the fact that it can possibly attack everything on the board as long as it can see it. However, I rolled two 1s for the shots and missed, and then got destroyed turn 3. My Opponent was somehow afraid of it and he dedicated a lot of firepower to bring it down, so it was kind of useful after all. I bring two in the next game, and see how it goes with the TS buff. But yeah, it definitely needs a change. More shots would be the way to go IMO.

Closing thoughts:
Stormravens are ridiculous. Is there anything they cant do?
Our resilience is amazing! Staying in cover and RP = your opponent having a bad time.
Living metal is not that powerful, but helps our vehicles getting back to be fully operational.
I definitely need more AT firepower, so I ordered a Tomb Sentinel and a Tesseract Ark at the nearest Tomb World.

The best part of the match was when I killed Shrike T4 and he had no troops on the ground left, thus loosing the game due to the errata. But I let him continue since he told me that he totally forgot about that rule.

With two games and two wins under my belt (not much, I know), with an army that is not in a particularly good spot right now, I am really optimistic for the future.

Sadly Nightbringer is the only 'shooty' ctan unless you count the tesseract arc..

Granted the other two still have their powers to use in the shooting phase, but NB has that too in addition to a ranged attack and rocks melee so he's the superior C'tan to take for combat if you dont need grand illusion for shenanigans. Though I enjoy running them together as a god squad tbh, nothing quite like mowing through enemies leadership wrap and then having leaders charge and destroy your ctans and then doing 6 mortal wounds with some lucky rolls when you explode. *chuckle*

Didn't hear you mention the powers, how did those turn out for you? Or did you forget to pick and use one of the three?

Lothmar wrote:
Sadly Nightbringer is the only 'shooty' ctan unless you count the tesseract arc..

Granted the other two still have their powers to use in the shooting phase, but NB has that too in addition to a ranged attack and rocks melee so he's the superior C'tan to take for combat if you dont need grand illusion for shenanigans. Though I enjoy running them together as a god squad tbh, nothing quite like mowing through enemies leadership wrap and then having leaders charge and destroy your ctans and then doing 6 mortal wounds with some lucky rolls when you explode. *chuckle*

Didn't hear you mention the powers, how did those turn out for you? Or did you forget to pick and use one of the three?

Ah, thanks for reminding me Lothmar!
I gave him Antimatter Meteor, since I knew that in an SM army there wouldn't be that many targets for the other two powers.
AMM worked all right, but nothing spectacular. I chipped a couple of wounds off the Blackstar before charging it, managing to bring it down to 5 or so wounds. But after that it flew away and killed the NB from range. That was actually my mistake (one of many this game) since i forgot to wrap him back up with the scarabs. But at least my Immortals avenged him a turn later zapping the Blackstar out of the sky.
Don't get me wrong, I like the NB, he is the most useful C'tan atm imo. I will definitely field him again in the future, but against a vehicle heavy list he is not the optimal choice.

I also played against Raven Guard this weekend.
Chapter tactics for one army really gives an huge advantage. The -1 to hit at >12" is amazing. Imagine having that on a Necron army.

We are trying out some lists for a team tournament with the highlander restriction. So no duplicate units unless you have picked everything else from the same slot. No FW and no unique models are allowed.

We played relic.

My list was:
Overlord, WS
Cryptek
10 Immortals, gauss
10 Deathmarks
Stalker, THGC
6 Wraiths
5 Scarabs
1 DDA
3 Heavy Destroyers

Raven guard:
Captain on bike
2 Tech marines on bikes
6 Dreadnoughts (with lots of dakka)
3 Centurions with hurricane bolters and grav

Turn 1:
I got to start.
MWBD the Heavy Destroyers.
Focused almost everything into one dread, did 5 wounds!
Dropped down Deathmarks, shot at Techmarine, nothing.

In his turn he killed three Wraiths, the Heavy Destroyers (who where in cover) and a few Deathmarks.

I had some awful die rolls.

Turn 2:
Deathmarks killed a Techmarine.
Everything else wiffed and I only managed to kill a single Centurion.

The Wraiths charged a couple of Dreads. One was shot down in overwatch the remaining two where killed in CC where the Captain intervened.

In his turn he shot some Immortals, Deathmarks and put a few wounds on the Stalker. He managed a long charge in the Deathmarks with a Dread. Deathmarks held.

Turn 3:
Once again my shooting did diddley squat.
Scarabs have been moving around grabbing objectives. The relic is in the middle of a shooting lane so my Infantry don't have a chance to grab it.

In his turn he shot most of the Immortals and put a few more wounds on the Stalker. His Captain charged the Deathmarks and together with the Dread they killed them.

Turn 4:
We shaked hands and agreed that I would have a very hard time winning.


Conclusion:
The relic mission made me focus a lot of my forces on one place.

My shooting was terrible ineffective. A part of it was terrible dice rolling. It's very noticeable that point for point Necrons have a fraction of the firepower of Marines.
Gauss Immortals have a bad range, will switch to tesla.
I flanked with the Scarabs and Wraiths. I should have used them as screens for the relic instead.

A Raven guard Dreadnought list is strong. -1 to hit, Captain gives reroll 1's to hit and a Warlord trait gives an additional -1 AP on sixes (which is amazingly good if units can put out 20-30 dice of shooting each).

It's also difficult to lock down dreads in CC since they just kills the units.

 skoffs wrote:
Would it ever be worth it to bring TWO G-Pylons?
That would be half your list at 950 points, and you'd be seriously hurting for CP... but fill out the rest of your ranks with Stalkers and Scarabs and you might actually have something, there.

In for a penny, in for a pound. You might consider running a third Lord of War since that Battle forged list doesn't require a leader at all and it gives 3CP.

Perhaps the Tesseract Vault and place it so it's bases tips can be in either GP's 6" invul field since it doesn't have QS or invul itself so it's not too tanky. This gives you some decent anti horde with str 7 tesla and 20 shots of it, not to mention the up to 3 ctan powers.

If you have initiative place one of the GP's on the field at the start in case they seize, if you dont have the initiative then keep both GP's in TP matrix and bring onto the field.

If you run Toholk for Eternal engines place on your favorite LoW of whatevers on the field at the start of T1. If you're running him you might as well bring an infantry unit~ so either 20 man warrior squad and a ghost ark for max survivability and shots coming at whomever is forced to march against your LoW's (just hold them back so Ghost ark can get invul too and still provide secondary reprot. Granted it's got a decent move so even if you move your infantry away since they have mobile invul you can always catch them after 1-2 turns of marching and advancing with one move and still be in range for the end of move phase Re prot..

So~ 485+485+495
240+165+175 == hmmm, 2045. Yeah you'd probably need 2500 to 3k to finish this up... What alternatives...

For 2k, you'd probably need to run immortals as your infantry choice and then you'd have 200 points left... You could buy a triarch since that's always good especially with such powerful weapons shooting. If you run Heavy Gauss you'll have some wasted points but the best range... If you think you can live with the 24" range you can run Particle and still fit in 3 scarabs as well.

...

Alternatively you could probably tack on a spearhead detachment with Toholk and 1 dedicated spyder repair per. But if you dont have good concealment etc expect your repair bots to get picked off before they continue focusing down your stuff. 165+84+84+84 - You'll then have 118 left, at which point you can run 9 more scarabs as a single squad or 2 squads split how you like... Toholk is losing out on quite a few of his abilities (increasing re prot, giving invuls, etc), but honestly there's few leaders who have any effect whatsoever in this kind of a build so~ meh? At least toholk is giving one of your mains more healing and if you are seizing a second chance for free.

---

Or also alternatively, just running a 4th LoW and taking either another TV or GP. At that point you're almost 2k.

How can he field 6 dreads with highlander? That seems like a very nasty list to come up against.

 Nagerash wrote:
How can he field 6 dreads with highlander? That seems like a very nasty list to come up against.

There's several variations of Dreads, but it isn't like any of them are broken. At best, a Dread is pretty darn good. That's at best.

So

2x G-Pylons
2x T.Vaults

Includes anti tank and anti horde.

Leaves just enough points to include 4x Scarab bases (but that would mean losing a CP to add the auxiliary unit)

Would fail miserably, but would probably be fun to play.

If he had one flyer left doesn't that count as tabled?

 skoffs wrote:
So

2x G-Pylons
2x T.Vaults

Includes anti tank and anti horde.

Leaves just enough points to include 4x Scarab bases (but that would mean losing a CP to add the auxiliary unit)

Would fail miserably, but would probably be fun to play.

Would have to pay attention so those TVs don't block line of sight for those GPs.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nagerash wrote:
How can he field 6 dreads with highlander? That seems like a very nasty list to come up against.

There's several variations of Dreads, but it isn't like any of them are broken. At best, a Dread is pretty darn good. That's at best.

Haven't looked in the Space marine codex in detail, but I guess they have 6 dread datasheets.
The thing with dreads is that they benefit from the Raven Guard chapter tactics and are not easily locked in CC since they can fight back. They are also surprisingly mobile and a few of them hit on 2+ with reroll of ones thanks to the Captain.

It's a very difficult list to fight with Necrons with highlander and no FW. Basically the only heavy weapons I can field are Stalker, DDA, Heavy destroyers, Monolith and Doom scythe. The problem with these are (except the Monolith) is that you get so few dice to shoot with and with -1 to hit they do almost no damage at all.

Highlander is literally the worst format created and has no way to balance. Necrons would be so bad off in Highlander it's funny.

I'm going to run this list next game



1. Immortals will be deployed / run to cover and with 2+ save and MWBD from Barge will shoot around to protect Pylon and deployment zone.
2. Stalkers will give rerolls and will destroy small vehicles / terminators etc
3. Pylon will focus on big stuff
4. Scarabs will protect pylon and grab objectives
5. Barges will grab objectives and work against horde

I'd drop a barge and add 10 warriors since you bring the ghost ark anyway (unless you mean to transport them, which is hardly worth it)

10 warriors bring roughly the same anti horde power as an Anni barge

torblind wrote:
I'd drop a barge and add 10 warriors since you bring the ghost ark anyway (unless you mean to transport them, which is hardly worth it)

10 warriors bring roughly the same anti horde power as an Anni barge

What i see almost every game is that warriors really do not do much due to slowness.
Annihilation Barge with Tesla shots brings more firepower that 10 warriors for same price AND most important has much greater mobility.
Every game warriors go forward really slow or just stand protecting objective and do nothing.

The good option is bringing Deceiver and teleporting warriors closer but Deceiver has it's own issue - 225pts tax for teleport and if you're not going first your teleported units can be killed due to closer to enemy deployment.

Anyone have any ideas for a cool functional double-Monolith list? 2k? Recently reacquired my old ones.

Just for friendly games, not tournaments, so it doesn't have to be tournament competitive - I doubt a double Monolith list could be be in any way...

So im curious how to resolve a comand point reroll of a charge against a tesseract ark? Does the reroll happen before or after the discard? Or does he leave 1 die and reroll 2. 1 being his reroll and 1 being the extra dice for gravitational flux?

Roll all relevant dice. Then, your opponent can spend a command point to reroll any one.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Roll all relevant dice. Then, your opponent can spend a command point to reroll any one.

This still doesnt tell me if its before or after the discard.

He would CP before you throw away the highest. I've forced opponents to spend them in the past to make charges against it. A CP reroll only allows to reroll one dice, so he would choose his lowest dice and reroll it. For example, I've had a TH/SS termie squad 6" away from my ark, he rolled a 6 and two 1's, so he had to CP one of his 1's as he had to throw away his 6 anyway. Got a 3, and failed the charge as he had a 1, 3 and 6, throwing away the 6 meant he got 4", not enough to make it.

 Klowny wrote:
He would CP before you throw away the highest. I've forced opponents to spend them in the past to make charges against it. A CP reroll only allows to reroll one dice, so he would choose his lowest dice and reroll it. For example, I've had a TH/SS termie squad 6" away from my ark, he rolled a 6 and two 1's, so he had to CP one of his 1's as he had to throw away his 6 anyway. Got a 3, and failed the charge as he had a 1, 3 and 6, throwing away the 6 meant he got 4", not enough to make it.

Thank you. That clears that up nicely.

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:

torblind wrote:
I'd drop a barge and add 10 warriors since you bring the ghost ark anyway (unless you mean to transport them, which is hardly worth it)

10 warriors bring roughly the same anti horde power as an Anni barge

What i see almost every game is that warriors really do not do much due to slowness.
Annihilation Barge with Tesla shots brings more firepower that 10 warriors for same price AND most important has much greater mobility.
Every game warriors go forward really slow or just stand protecting objective and do nothing.

The good option is bringing Deceiver and teleporting warriors closer but Deceiver has it's own issue - 225pts tax for teleport and if you're not going first your teleported units can be killed due to closer to enemy deployment.

I agree, I would drop the warriors and ghost ark altogether, to me it seemed you were committed to bringing warriors since you also had an ark, hence my suggestion.

I want to make the anni barge viable, becuase its such a cool model (one of my highpoints from 7th was the one game I got to put the ABarge on a skyfire nexus so that what is modeled like a big a** AA gun actually got to fill the role, blasting flyrants out of the sky)

Its speed, combined with assault weaponry should make it ideal for jumping around on objectives, blasting off final wounds off of models. Just need to bring more threatening targets for your enemy so he will focus his fire elsewhere.

Unfortunately against hordes tesla immortals is that much better; more wounds, RP, wounds on 3+ anyway, but most importantly, can take MWBD. If you go to the tool I link to in my signature, and punch the numbers, hit Tesla and the "+1" checkbox, and see damage output increase by almost 50% against hordes with T-shirt saves. The ABarge doesnt come near. Even without MWBD.

So once again, for everyone keeping score,

The current most effective units we have available to us (for the time being) are:
- Immortals (max sized. Tesla. Buffed with MWBD. Keep in cover if possible)
- Scarabs (any sized. Used for anti-drop screening and Smite absorption. Also good for running around and capping objectives)
- Tesseract Arks (good guns, better mobility, more survivable)
- G-Pylons (amazing guns, not easy to remove)

Honorable mention goes to:
- Tomb Blades (units of 5+ best. Gauss because you can get in close quickly)
- Triarch Stalkers (valuable rerolls for heavy weaponry)
- Deceiver (redeployment mindf*ckery)

For the lols Skoffs, what are our worst units? (Definitely not trying to stir-up any gak amongst the thread, obviously )

I feel like Deathmarks should be "honorable" tbh, not everyone uses them but ever since I tested them out and saw someone destroy a Flying Tzeentch Circus with them iv always fielded them and had good success with them.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Anyone have any ideas for a cool functional double-Monolith list? 2k? Recently reacquired my old ones.

Just for friendly games, not tournaments, so it doesn't have to be tournament competitive - I doubt a double Monolith list could be be in any way...

Hmm... Maybe 2 monliths 381+381
Deciever +225
Gauss pylon +485

---------
1472

Ok, if you can figure out two infantry choices you like for the remaining 530 (HQ's also doable since technically Infantry) here's what you'd do.

Beginning of game, Monoliths deployed on the board with deceiver.
Before Turn 1, Grand illusion the two monoliths to either 24" for max weapons range on them, or slightly closer for your coming infantry. Feel free to deploy the deceiver where you find approps.
Turn 1, Drop the GP behind the monolith shields and have them corner touching the invul field for invul.
Start of movement, have infantry walk out of monoliths. Then you can either keep monolith there or have it move as needed but the invul saves are good to have if your enemy has decent ap since mono's dont have QS.


With 1 more heavy and a leader you can make this a Vanguard for 1CP and to battleforge...

If you dont need the invul sticking power and massive AP fire support the GP provides, you can still do this with the idea of get in their face fast and hard with deploying squads into max effect range and possibly charging.

Lothmar wrote:

Hmm... Maybe 2 monliths 381+381
Deciever +225
Gauss pylon +485

There is one HUGE Grand Illusion issue. If you're not going first you're f**ked.
You're redeploying your units very close to the enemy so they'll be in range for all opponent shooting attacks.
I've tried couple of times play Grand Illusion and it did work only when i went first.

Grand Illusion when going first is Brutal, but its use as second turn player is more limited.

You have to fake a deploy and then deny a flank to your opponent, concentrating on one side of the board vs the other.

You can also use it to advance screens up the board, but its not a good strategy to build your entire list based on going first as that happens only 50% of the time.

What is the plan if you fo second?

You redeploy after deciding on going first, so you won't be unnecessarily exposed

For my last games Deceiver did nothing so i feel it is like "tax" to pay for Grand Illusion.

What i'm thinking that 2x10 Immortals with Tesla teleported by GI in cover to capture some objectives might be very nice. 24' range, 2+ save.

Didn't think of the Gauss Pylon, that's pretty solid with giving the invulnerable save to the monoliths. I was thinking about using the Deciever too. Big worry if no first turn, though I think that's the case with any army like this..

I have two monoliths but are two legit?

BillyN831 wrote:
I have two monoliths but are two legit?

From what I know, even ONE is gimping yourself a little bit.

Two would be disastrous. The more experienced Cron players can try to help make it work, though.

Half -

Considering the list you'll probably have way less units to deploy then your opponent, so depending on rules that means you're going first and they'll roll to seize or you get a +1 to the roll off.

Alternatively if you're worried about losing the roll off I enjoy playing 'toholk' if only for the free reroll of seize. Granted you cant spend a CP and try again for a 3rd shot at the 6 but hey at least you didn't waste a CP to try to seize.

Granted if you run Toholk and they seize from you it feels like you wasted part of his fun but his eternal engines is pretty nice to help make a piece of hardware on the field a little beefier.

But yeah if you do run him run some infantry for him to Invul and increase the reprots on and their job will be to keep gak back from the vehicle invul bubble area. If gak gets dicey feel free to pull them back and stretch them around the monoliths to force them to charge you there and then have your gate of exile go off for charging within a certain range of it. *chuckle*

Granted if you want to make use of his Eternal engines then he's likely walking to catch up, unless you got high enough on the dice roll to take him as well. Cause if you want to walk him out the monolith then you wont get eternal engines because it occurs at the start of the round which is before the move phase where you walk out at the start of. So if you dont need him a support for either the reroll or the better healing factor then just run a different guy to save points honestly.


---
Art - Agreed though dependent on what you're running you can sort of limit the damage if you still want to use it somewhat aggressively. But yeah it's a risky strat, like yelling while baking a soufle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BillyN831 wrote:
I have two monoliths but are two legit?

Depends, circumstantially it's possible... If you've got a smallish board (48x48, 12" deployment, 24 between)... Anything really big it'd get annoying if you're trying to use them for portal march. However if you're just playing a drop army and you're going for doing all your best stuff the first turn you drop then that'll decide the course of the game and anything else you play is just for survivability and hope you dont get tabled if you go second (at which point a longer range map is somewhat ok).

It also depends on the points of the game, like 2.5+ you can probably do it...

ex: 3 monoliths makes a decent wall if you play them on the ground and not on a base etc so enemies can shoot under you ; sure if you are running GP to give em invul then they can shoot at it over them but if GP gets low and it's suddenly your turn you can always move away from it if you're deployed around its edge etc..

But yeah behind the monolith wall you can keep a repair team of spyders back there where they cant get shot unless they outflank you or deploy from behind etc. If they focus one down and it survives but is kind of low you might just send it lumbering towards the enemy coming for you and realign the formation so that it hopefully wont hit your stuff if it explodes.

If you can afford the two HQ's you can easily run two heavy formations since spyders and mono's are heavy. Walk one hg 3 inches to the right out the left mono, one hq 3 inches to left of the right mono and deploy your infantry 3 inches from the center mono so the leadership is behind the screen.

BillyN831 wrote:
I have two monoliths but are two legit?

Dont really see reason to play them, when you can have pylon for just a little bit more.


But i have question of my own... how do you play againts that mc hornytits?

when he starts, he get 3++ with rerolls of 1 and then warptime into my face.

He is too strong to ignore him, and if he is lucky, he can´t be ever hurted with my guns (two rounds worth shooting of necron pylon, before he R*ped it) - and its not experience from just one game
I tried to feed him scarabs - he just flew away
I tried to slow him with wraiths - he casted nullgate(is it it´s name even for chaos?) and wrecked them
I tried to feth him up with c´tan - he killed it and got 6 mortal wounds in return but still had enought to sweep my army of board.

Only thing i can think of is flood him with tesla shoots - quantity over quality, but i dont have enaught immortals...

So what should i do?

I would appreciate some c&c on this list. Its my first 2k game and it will be against tyranids.

I dunno, I think it'll be fine against Tyranids depending how optimized they are.
Right now I struggling to find good counters to Guard. Gauss Immortals would finally enough be fantastic but Night Scythes are just so blech right now. A combo of advancing MWBD Tesla Immortals and dropped Gauss Immortals would cause havoc. You can't get there though because Guard outranges us.

So use Gauss Tomb Blades instead of Gauss Immortals?

 skoffs wrote:
So use Gauss Tomb Blades instead of Gauss Immortals?

They're SOOOOO expensive though compared to last edition, and even with doing Outrider purely you gotta compete with Scarabs and Wraiths for slots. Thats also not a lot of CP to use in the end either.

We need a codex real bad.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
So use Gauss Tomb Blades instead of Gauss Immortals?

They're SOOOOO expensive though compared to last edition, and even with doing Outrider purely you gotta compete with Scarabs and Wraiths for slots. Thats also not a lot of CP to use in the end either.

We need a codex real bad.

I agree, don't think you can afford 2 full tesla immortals (which you should have against nids) and gauss TBs.

Not so sure about the full squad of deathmarks, you have good horde control with 2 tesla immortals

Can you shoehorn in one more overlord or Cbarge? Means you could have both tesla immortals fire at full potential each turn. Perhaps scrap deathmarks and some wraiths. The CBarge is great in that it has a 12" range on its MWBD, so it can shoot off to grab a nearby objective while still leting your immortals destroy those hordes coming at you. Or it can shoot off to grab linebreaker near the end.

The gauss immortals are only there to fill the troop tax for a battalion. Unfortunately i have only got three tomb blades total and i just dont see them surviving long enough to be worth their points. The death marks are in there because i KNOW he will using trygon tunnel. Either for genestealers or a termagant hoarde. Im not opposed to swapping them out and i do have a CCB. Do you think thats a better option than the marks?

Problem is, the deathmarks are barely putting a dent in the trygon, they could clear 10 gaunts or 7 genestealers (punch the numbers into dice-hammer.com), while tesla immortals with MWBD (for that sweet 5+ tesla against the poor tyranid armor saves), clears 13 genestealres or 17 gaunts.

You would have to survice the shooting and the charge first and stay clear of that evil 6" consolidate (or is that the other kind?), which would be tricky with only 2x4 scarabs to cover all angles.

Talking about it, I'm not so sure anymore, if you could
rid him of 10 gaunts, thats potensially 30 less shots coming your way, its mediocre, so its a difference of only 2-3 less models killed (if he targets your T4/3+), shooting and charging means he's killing wiping 7-8 of your 10 immortals, which are the ones he should go for. Or surrounding and one of your HQs till end of game.

Does he also have a Swarmlord to catapult them forward after they come up from the ground? That would be nasty.

He does have a swarmlord. Ive yet to see him use it as anything but an extremely scary missle but its deffinetly a possibility.

Just beware that you likely won't be able to intercept the charge with your Deathmarks, ie put them between chargers and chargees (probably not your plan either), but it might actually be quite nice to wither down the deepstriking horde unit as they come in. I wouldn't bother going after monsters with it, except for finishing off last few wounds for brackets or kills.

Inevitableq wrote:

Spoiler:

 

**++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Necrons) [105 PL, 1998pts] ++**

 

**+ HQ +**

 

**Nemesor Zahndrekh [9 PL, 180pts]**

 

**Vargard Obyron [8 PL, 151pts]**

 

**+ Troops +**

 

**Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]:** 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

 

**Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]:** 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

 

**Immortals [8 PL, 102pts]:** Gauss Blaster, 6x Immortal

 

**+ Elites +**

 

**Deathmarks [10 PL, 200pts]:** 10x Deathmark

 

**+ Fast Attack +**

 

**Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 52pts]:** 4x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

 

**Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 52pts]:** 4x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

 

**Canoptek Wraiths [12 PL, 230pts]**


. 2x Canoptek Wraith w/ Particle Caster: 2x Particle Caster

. Canoptek Wraith w/ Transdimensional Beamer: Transdimensional Beamer

. 2x Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils: 2x Whip Coils

 

**+ Heavy Support +**

 

**(FW) Sentry Pylon [8 PL, 185pts]:** Teleportation Matrix


. Sentry Pylon: Heat Cannon

 

**(FW) Tesseract Ark [13 PL, 260pts]**


. Two Gauss Cannons: 2x Gauss Cannon

 

**(FW) Tesseract Ark [13 PL, 246pts]**


. Two Tesla Cannons: 2x Tesla Cannon

 

**++ Total: [105 PL, 1998pts] ++**

I would appreciate some c&c on this list. Its my first 2k game and it will be against tyranids.

What your plan with Zahndrekh and Obyron?

Do you really need the Battalions 3CP? I rather take an Outrider or Spearhead, save points and out them into more units then to have 2 more CPs.

If it was me. I would do an Outrider Detach, take a unit of Immortals out, put those points into Gauss Tomb Blades and maybe take out an extra Tesseract Ark to out more units into the Wraiths and Tomb Blades.

If you don't have that many tomb blades though I would take away Obyron (not sure what his place is in the list) and the Warriors. Put in a normal Overlord (2 ways of giving your Immortals MWBD for 5+ Tesla) and also a Doomsday Ark. I would then use the 2 Gauss arrays to work like the warriors would have

There aren't any warriors in his list.. and surely a sentry pylon and two TA's don't require another DDA?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And surely obyron has a nice place in this list as it would allow his immortals to pull out and still shoot, if they are charged by the gaunts (which tyey likely will be, those would be priority targets for the nids player, as the big guns could Fly out and still fire)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
.. and also its nice to have TAs reposition as needed, or on the stand by to move out and still fire at full strength with good range, when one of his flanks waivers.

Against nids you likely have to take the first wave before you can see where best to move up. I would make the case of TAs instead of DDAs just so that larger parts of your army can play an as active mobile role as possible. You will be tied down and will have to take mobility wherever he lets you. A bit of listtailoring perhaps, but hey, were necrons. we suck at the moment

In leu of a response odrankt i will simply refer you to torblinds post as he nailed every point.

Thought I read warriors in the list, sorry for the confusion.

-torblind-

And surely obyron has a nice place in this list as it would allow his immortals to pull out and still shoot, if they are charged by the gaunts

well, personally I wouldn't let my Immortals get into CC. Id used Scarabs to create a Anti-charge zones. Obyron might be useful but it's a bit expensive for what you want it to do. Might work but I'm not sure how well it would work.

and also its nice to have TAs reposition as needed, or on the stand by to move out and still fire at full strength with good range, when one of his flanks waivers.

fair point. I never said the TA was bad I just said I would swap out one for a DDA because of its 2 Gauss Arrays...

. I would make the case of TAs instead of DDAs just so that larger parts of your army can play an as active mobile role as possible. You will be tied down and will have to take mobility wherever he lets you.

I actually played my DDA as an active mobile unit. I was using it's 2 Gauss arrays and the low profile as a change and found it quite useful. Instead of it being back and shooting D3, it was shooting D3 and 20 shots (rapid fire) constantly throughout the game. I used the low profile to ad the last remaining wounds on a vehicle when the rest of my big guns were done. Also, an active DDA really throws the opponent off.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Inevitableq wrote:
In leu of a response odrankt i will simply refer you to torblinds post as he nailed every point.

I noticed

Mobile DDA are actually pretty nice. But im thinking the two flesh bane profiles and the grav flux are gonna be nicer on over watch and charge detterents than the flayer arrays. I could be wrong. We shall see.

Inevitableq wrote:
Mobile DDA are actually pretty nice. But im thinking the two flesh bane profiles and the grav flux are gonna be nicer on over watch and charge detterents than the flayer arrays. I could be wrong. We shall see.

Keep us posted.

I had a good chuckle when I saw someone's "Americrons" army paint job on battle reports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aYaqi3IFgM

I haven't faced new guard, but tomb blades, GI 40 warriors all with gauss being backed by tesla immortals and TA's out the whazoo makes for a very efficient guard list, it will still be very hard to beat them.

 Odrankt wrote:
Thought I read warriors in the list, sorry for the confusion.

-torblind-

[...]

Your points are all valid and too easily dismissed by me, I was in a bit of a hurry and had to type fast and dirty to get points across before I had to run, hence all the additional edits, didn't have time to think through and put my comments in proper perspective.

The TA is more expensive too and if you can't find the last 20 points (could easily happen) then the DDA is there.

The arrays have about the same performance as the two tesla cannons and fleshbane flamer. But that flamer combined with the Grav. Flux ability is also a nice charge deterrent.

The cost of obyron can always be discussed. He costs almost an additional unit of tesla immortals, but between him and a 2nd overlord I would probably opt for the overlord. But against a tyranid horde list would arguably be one of the better places to have available obyron's Ghostwalk Mantle.

Hey all,
Playing against Girly Man and his buddies this weekend with Necrons. He's running (probably) Girlyman, Helblasters, Storm Raven, iron clad and probably Primaris Marines.
From what I understand us necrons need a book and are pretty underwhelming against all the new hotness. Plus the lack of strategems seems cripplingly bad.
I have lots of models and am thinking of running Quantum Sheild spam with lots of Scarabs and Deathmarks, backed up with two stalkers, two DDAs, three command barges and a few spyders. Anyone have experience vs him?
What works best? I'm not looking to tailor the list, just trying to cut the fat (like probably the spyders).

Hellblasters have fixed damage (2 or 3)? I cant remember off the top of my head but if it is its going to negate your QS pretty quickly.

Command barges arent that great anyway, with only 3 attacks its nothing to rely on. Anni barges will put out more damage. Spyders I dont really like, too easy to kill.

What do you have available?

Unlimited Scarabs, two monoliths, two arks (can be DDA or ghost), three spyders, six wraiths, three scythes, 30 warriors, 15 death marks, two stalkers, 10 lychgaurd, 3 barges, various characters, 20 immortals... No forgeworld though.

id run immortals with tesla and overlord, all deathmarks, all stalkers with gauss, a dda, spam scarabs. you need to kill the stormraven quicksmart, DS the deathmarks and hope they kill guilliman, otherwise just surround him with scarabs for the rest of the game.

I agree with Klowny. Just a few tips/remarks.

It will take the Deathmarks many turns to kill Bobby G. Don't get me wrong I actually think they are one of our best units, but you need to know their limitations.

Command barges are ok. A bit too expensive, but I've found out that the12" MWBD is great. I'd like to see 4++ and something like D3 MW on charge for their points cost. It's movement makes it possible to give deep striking Desthmarks MWBD. Combine this with reroll ones from the Stalkers.

The Triarch Stalker really lack fire power for it's price, but it's buff and 3+ save makes it useable. Try to give it cover for that yummy 2+.

Scarabs. Only charge with these if it's against a unit that youvcan win a fight against or doesn't wipe you out in a single phase. A unit size of 5-6 seem optimal to meif you use them as screens.

I played a game last night, 80% competitive list I'm bringing to my next comp, 20% fun.

Vs'd a monster mash tyranid list, 4 flyrants, 2 harpies, a hive crone, 2 biovores, gargoyles, and a few other things.

I ran o/lord, 10 t-immortals, 10 marks, 8 scarabs, 3 scarabs, nightbringer, stalker, TA, pylon and vault.

Firstly, I was planning on bringing everything except the vault to the comp, but I noticed how slow the list was once the Deathmarks came down, which I HATE.

My thoughts on the game. Immortals were good, didnt roll super hot but they still did work. MWBD is such a good synergy. I managed like 28 out of 16 hits one roll lol.

TA did work, probably the standout in the list. I was rolling hot all game for my D6 shots on this and the pylon.

Pylon finally pulled its weight, consistently killed or brought a monster down to bottom tier every turn. Maybe whiffed once.

Deathmarks....... I DS them onto a midfield objective in cover, they shot at a 5w Flyrant, and did 1 MW. Nothing to write home about. I scored a point from the objective, but they were dead the next turn.

Stalker....2 shots just isn't enough, sure the buff is nice but at the end of the day I dont think the buff is worth it. I am going to try the 6 shot S7 one, if I dont like that im dropping it from my lists. The THGC just feels out of place shooting at infantry, and in my comp list it does ensure that whatever the pylon is shooting at gets help, but usually you have to sacrifice its damage, making it hit on 4's because it needs to move.

Tesseract Vault boy did this soak fire. I stuffed up and didn't focus down the two foward flyrants, as I was more worried about his backfield cannons and flyers with dakka, so it got smited down in like 3 turns. But took 3 turns of an entire army worth of shooting to die. It did okay, I think it will be a lot better when the codex comes out and we get more c'tan powers again. I wanted to see if the S7 tesla made a difference, and frankly I think the immortals tesla is better, 2+/5+ puts out so many more shots.

And the best till last.

The nightbringer.

Holy hell is this dude a monster. against gunline lists he wont be as good, but any army that wants to come to me, he is amazing. The second a mawloc popped up right next to him, I turned, and looked at him really hard, then smote him, then charged in and wrecked it. Deletes big single models with ease. With a scarab screen he is effectively 35 wounds, and the scarabs themselves shore up his weakness against hordes. Dont charge him into a boy's squad, but any elite infantry should be terrified of him.

I noticed that the c'tan powers are a bit lacking in the index. They have their uses, but if we get some good ones in the codex, I can see nasty lists legitimately employing a deciever/nightbringer combo. Alternatively, if we get some cool mobility options to zip him around the board, he will be terror on wheels.

Finally, I've noticed that alot of necron damage is VERY swingy, which I dont like. Im building a competitive raven guard list, and the power difference/reliable damage output difference is huge.

D6 shots is better than D3 for sure, but fixed damage outputs are even nicer.

Talking to another competitive player who went interstate for a team comp, he had the same findings as me.

Some games, our damage will be phenomenal, rolling hot for the pylon, deathmarks, Flayed ones (his list) etc, but other games they whiff for days.

As a result, I am starting to lean towards more stable damage outputs.

Tesla immortals obviously, but I'm running 12x tomb blades, 2x6 squads, 50/50 vanes/looms, all with gauss. Nightbringer, scarabs.

Obviously the pylon and TA are still included (I dont think we can be super competitive without at least one of them, but please prove me wrong ).

So;
O/lord w/ HPS
10x Tesla Immortals
Nightbringer
Stalker w/ PS
8x scarabs
5x wraiths
6x TB w/ guass, 3x looms, 4x vanes
6x TB w/ 5 guass, 1x pb, 4x looms, 3x vanes
Tesseract Ark w/ tesla
Pylon

Depending on the list I can tailor the nightbringer's screen, I have a super fast list (which I have always leant towards), thats fairly durable, 7/10 units are 3+, T5 or greater.

I want to see which TB outfit is better, a greater number of vanes, or looms, I feel it will be the vanes but we shall see.

Will keep you guys posted with results.

Funny, I was up against a big cannon Tyranid list 2 days ago (including a barbed hierodule, 20+ wounds lord of war)

I had the exact same experience with the nightbringer, in the end he leapt over his scarab screen and absolutely murdalized an Exocrine, (T8, 12W, 3+) monser, 4 hits, 4 wounds, 17 damage!

He did take 2dmg and was then easily smitten to death, but it helped the rest of the army recover with RP now that the Exocrine bombardment wasnt holding them back any more.

Nice to see the T Vault in play, how is it played at best? ie most value for the points?

Ill post more later.

Yeah, tbh I keep forgetting about smite, and it just demolishes low model count armies like us.

I brought the vault cus I was against nids, and thouight I was facing a stealer horde, but he ended up with monster mash. S7 tesla is okay, but immortals do it better with MWBD tbh.

For its points its not that great, its powers didnt do much of anything. If the c'tan powers become good then maybe it might be okay, but you point a few lascannons at it and it will melt.

Yeah, S7 tesla suffers alot from not being S8, which means against T-shirt saves, whis is what synnergizes with Tesla, they don't make much of a difference, well except for S3, Sv 6+ gaunts. But they aren't that much of a threat I find.

Against higher toughnesses where S7 would be nice, the save is that much better, and MWBD for the teslas puts the immortals on par against those targets too.

I've always been curious to throw Seismic Assault at hordes, but if he didnt bring any then that was no use probably.

I rolled it once.... killed 3 gargoyles :/

Since Tomb Citadel has the 'vehicle' keyword, can Toholks 'eternal engines' ability interact with it? Or since it doesn't possess the 'living metal' ability it cant be enhanced?

Also, am I assuming each of the four component pieces can each be repaired by a d3 through Canoptek spyder in a turn?

Also how does the 'wrecked' situation for it work since it's a battle tile? Should I mark it off into quarters and after each piece is popped I cant then have models standing on that portion or shooting from that portion from there on and have to maneuver off accordingly ; or should I run that the explosion area is 'wrecked' and once all 4 are broken then the entire tile is mostly useless except for elevation / line of sight concealment? Or is it once any of the 4 components gets destroyed no other models can make use of this fortress?

Re-reading the designers note on the Tomb citatel I realise I have misunderstood it. I thought if either of the two constructs is destroyed, the entire Citadel is gone, but thats not it at all. They both live independent lives, its just that part of the tile that is wrecked.

As for your quetsions I dont know, this is such an odd model to have in an army I guess several rules are not easily understood for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Klowny wrote:
I rolled it once.... killed 3 gargoyles :/

The powers need some serious rethinking when the codex drops. Its nice to have something smite-like and all, but a star god, even just a shard, sort of promises something more.

I remember shooting an apocalyptic barrage with it in 7th, killing 31 hormagaunts in one go, and a fistful of genestealers that were too close. That's more the feeling I'm looking for. Sure there was the issue of chance, but now, just nibbling away a few wounds every turn, just feels like some wasted great fluff potential. I wouldn't mind the Vault having the C'Tan powers on speed either, as in 7th. Would be nice to make it more viable now that its Teslas aren't all that any more (wounding on 3 anyway, and MWBD being the new hot thing with tesla)

Hey everyone, just an update on my game versus Bobby G!
I ran Scarabs, doomsday arks, command barges, stalkers, immortals and death marks. And two spyders.
MVP: Quantum shields!
The stalkers are boss, twin heavy Gauss with the targeting relay is great.
The Arks only fired full blast on the first turn, then later moved up and acted as gun boats.
I was handling pretty good, killing Primaris Marines like nothing, surrounded his storm Raven before blowing it up to deny space for his dread to get out... He rolled a 2 to explode and used a command point to explode it on a 6. It does d6 mortal wounds to everything around, doing something like 18 wounds total... Swung the game completely, letting the dread get out and Bobby making it in to combat. All downhill from there.
Next game I'm dropping death marks and adding more immortals.

In regards to Immortals, what's the ideal ratio of guys to Overlords?
An OL can only give out one MWDB a turn. 1:1 seems a little ridiculous if you're taking multiple Immortal squads, but only a single OL for 3+ units of Imms doesn't quite seem like an efficient way to spread around the MWBD love.

 skoffs wrote:
In regards to Immortals, what's the ideal ratio of guys to Overlords?
An OL can only give out one MWDB a turn. 1:1 seems a little ridiculous if you're taking multiple Immortal squads, but only a single OL for 3+ units of Imms doesn't quite seem like an efficient way to spread around the MWBD love.

Well instead of another OL you could just add another 6-7 Immortals.
On the other hand since there are plenty of -1 to hit these days, which makes tesla terrible perhaps a 2:3 ratio would be optimal.

Probably see it in light of your detachments.

If you are bringing a battalion, I'd likely to fit in 2 OLs for 2 immortals. Don't think I'd ever bring 3 OLs for 3 immortals for normal sized games. Hardly ever 3 OLs ever I think.

If you don't require 2 HQs to be battleforged, then points might be better spent elsewhere (more scarabs?)

And of course lots of -1 to hit in the meta would matter too

So I guess the other question is, if you're not taking a Battalion, are you going to bring Immortals anyway?
If so, how many units?
If more than a single unit, how many do you need to be bringing before adding a second OL for them would be necessary?

I have always brought immortals without battalions

MWBD Tesla immortals is just too potent against most enemies.

I don't think a second OL is ever necessary as such. If you have 2 immortals, then consider your detachment requirements, consider your meta, consider your enemy if possible. concider the strategy for your army.

If you are bringing 3 or more immortals, you are likely varying with gauss. If you are spamming tesla immortals then you likely know what you are doing and don't have to worry about any fixed OL/Immortal ratio


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For lets say 1500 points there is not much elbow space after you fill the requirements for a battalion.

But an OL and one unit of immortals would still offer nice list variability for the remaining points

Is a flayed one centric battle list viable? Or does it depend on the opponent?

Suggestions on how to improve this?

I don't think the Flayed One morale penalties stack with themselves.

JNA - Hmm~ ahh thought I read that as 'A unit' but looks like the wording in flesh hunger is 'any unit of' so you ware probably right... Dang was looking forward to stacking up to 3-4 morale penalty between them and the Ctan. *chuckle*

Anyone else want to weigh in on this?

It seems like a lot of eggs in one basket. How's your meta look like? Is it highly competitive, or more casual?

Mostly casual, this would just be for a virtual tabletop game since I have very few flayed ones and not for its campaign or anything. Mostly for the lols.

But yeah, all those eggs in one basket it just makes me chuckle a little when I think about hucking that basket into someones face.

WS 2+, reroll 1's to hit, reroll failed wounds, 5/6 attacks per flayed one (depending on Zhans ability), +1" charge (possibly rerolling failed charge dependent on Zhan), able to pull out of melee with ghost walk and recharge in or gain a few more inches of movement each turn with creative use of ghost walk mantle and advancing Zhan, 4+ Re prot and 5+ invuls, etc...

Granted all those hits are kind of 'meh' if the opponent has 8+ toughness and 2+ armor etc. *chuckle* But that's what i'll have the leadership core for I suppose.

Thought I heard it mentioned in a battle report.

Models of ours that fail morale aren't casualties right (they dont overload/shoot themselves out of cowardice etc) and thus should be removed from the game cause they 'fled the field' and thus aren't eligible models for reanimation protocol?

Yes, there was a FAQ clearing that is in deed the case

Since they're both at the end of the movement, could Flayed ones or Deathmarks or anything that deploys at the end of the move phase be deployed and then assuming they're in range of Obyron could they then be redeployed by ghost walk mantle?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone ever play an airforce centric build yet? Thoughts?

Lothmar wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone ever play an airforce centric build yet? Thoughts?

Spoiler:

2.5k
Build name: Airport - Elite Squad + Air wing = +2 CP
Catacomb command barge - 169 (Luggage Cart)
Tesla immortals 10x - 170 (Baggage handlers)

3x Scarabs 39 (Roombas)

Tri arch stalker 181 (TSA)
Tri arch stalker 181 (TSA)
Tri arch stalker 181 (TSA)

The planes, the planes!
Doomscythe 220
Doomscythe 220
Doomscythe 220
Doomscythe 220
Doomscythe 220

Gauss pylon - 475 (Control tower)

2k
Drop 2x Doom scythe, Replace 1 with a nightscythe
Drop scarabs

Fantastic! Love it!

Since Anrakyr doesn't have the Dynasty keyword in his MWBD and is simply 'friendly necron infantry unit' does that mean that unlike other leaders his can buff Praetorians?

Also in same vein, Illuminor can improve the R prot on the Praetorians?

Shame there's no neutrals that give an invul. *chuckle*

Guess I could use a GP or the citadel to do that in a pinch but it'd be a very specifically tailored list...

Lothmar wrote:
Since Anrakyr doesn't have the Dynasty keyword in his MWBD and is simply 'friendly necron infantry unit' does that mean that unlike other leaders his can buff Praetorians?

Also in same vein, Illuminor can improve the R prot on the Praetorians?

Shame there's no neutrals that give an invul. *chuckle*

Guess I could use a GP or the citadel to do that in a pinch but it'd be a very specifically tailored list...

Correct.

Would be nice to see the Citadel in battle once - do it!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is also the pylon

Inevitableq wrote:

Spoiler:

 

**++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Necrons) [105 PL, 1998pts] ++**

 

**+ HQ +**

 

**Nemesor Zahndrekh [9 PL, 180pts]**

 

**Vargard Obyron [8 PL, 151pts]**

 

**+ Troops +**

 

**Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]:** 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

 

**Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]:** 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

 

**Immortals [8 PL, 102pts]:** Gauss Blaster, 6x Immortal

 

**+ Elites +**

 

**Deathmarks [10 PL, 200pts]:** 10x Deathmark

 

**+ Fast Attack +**

 

**Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 52pts]:** 4x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

 

**Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 52pts]:** 4x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

 

**Canoptek Wraiths [12 PL, 230pts]**


. 2x Canoptek Wraith w/ Particle Caster: 2x Particle Caster

. Canoptek Wraith w/ Transdimensional Beamer: Transdimensional Beamer

. 2x Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils: 2x Whip Coils

 

**+ Heavy Support +**

 

**(FW) Sentry Pylon [8 PL, 185pts]:** Teleportation Matrix


. Sentry Pylon: Heat Cannon

 

**(FW) Tesseract Ark [13 PL, 260pts]**


. Two Gauss Cannons: 2x Gauss Cannon

 

**(FW) Tesseract Ark [13 PL, 246pts]**


. Two Tesla Cannons: 2x Tesla Cannon

 

**++ Total: [105 PL, 1998pts] ++**

I would appreciate some c&c on this list. Its my first 2k game and it will be against tyranids.

Well, i had my game agaisnt tyranids yesterday. Tesseract arks were awesome as long as they roll 3+ on shots. Took out an exocrine turn one through a Malanthrope. Wraiths did not impress me offensively but they just would not die. So great tarpit i guess.
Immortals worked great as always till they got rushed by genestealers and crumpled. Being able to pull some reposition shenanigans with ghost walk mantel was awesome. But the lack of a second MWBD hurt. Scarabs do their job of screening very very well. Death marks failed me this game. Usually they do pretty good amount of work but my rolls were just awful. Only rolledva single 6 out of two full volleys. The hive guard i was shooting saved every hit besides the single mortal wound i got in. Over all it was a pretty close back and forth game. Lost on points at the end of round 5.

Do you rememberhis full list?

I have had a game against a genestealer oriented Tyranids list and bringing two units of Tesla Immortals and two sources of MWBD proved cruicial (Anrakyr and a CBarge)

So could there be something to Necrons taking Battalions with 2x Overlords and 3x Immortals? (for more MWBD)
Or should we just keep it 1x OL + 1-2 Imms?

torblind wrote:
Do you rememberhis full list?

I have had a game against a genestealer oriented Tyranids list and bringing two units of Tesla Immortals and two sources of MWBD proved cruicial (Anrakyr and a CBarge)

Not sure i remember the whole list. But from what i remember:
2x exocrine
1x malanthrope
1x the swarmlord
3x hive guard with impaler cannon
1x old one eye
1x brood lord
1x trygon prime
3x ripper swarm
30x termagants
20x genestealers

 skoffs wrote:
So could there be something to Necrons taking Battalions with 2x Overlords and 3x Immortals? (for more MWBD)
Or should we just keep it 1x OL + 1-2 Imms?

If I bring 2 tesla immortals, I would try hard to fit in two sources of MWBD.

torblind wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
So could there be something to Necrons taking Battalions with 2x Overlords and 3x Immortals? (for more MWBD)
Or should we just keep it 1x OL + 1-2 Imms?

If I bring 2 tesla immortals, I would try hard to fit in two sources of MWBD.

I agree, i really wanted to try out zandrekh and obyron. Other wise it would of been two OL or one OL and a CCB.

So I'm doing something that not many people are going to agree with, but for my Masters list I'm...... dropping the pylon.

So I've found its damage is INSANELY swingy. Today it didnt kill a flyer, or a LRBT. It whiffs so badly when it does, and its such a points investment, that I'm now moving away from variable damage as much as possible. 10 immortals in cover is troll as feth, so I'm going to take a variation on my current list, as I've playtested it enough to have a good idea of the mechanics of it.

Here we go lads:

Outrider
1x o/lord w/ HPS
10x Immortals
1x Deciever
1x Nightbringer
6x wraiths
6x wraiths
9x Tomb Blades, 5 vanes, 5 looms, Gauss
1x TA
1x DDA

Aux Support
1x Stalker w/ THGC

Normally I'm against melee deceiver bombs, but considering how stupid durable wraiths are I'm confident they will soak enough wounds to get the c'tan into their lines

Klowny, how do you like the DDA and Stalker. I've tried them out quite a few times and they have never really pulled their weight. Although I still use them because we don't have much else heavy weapons. I don't use FW.

I've actually started using Heavy Destroyers lately since with MWBD they practically always hit. They are by far the most reliable heavy weapons Necrons have. Sure they die in all my games, but they have usually pulled their weight.

In a team tournament in 2 weeks I'm actually going to have a unit of 6 Destroyers incl 1 heavy accompanied by a CCB with a gauss cannon and res orb. They are surpisingly effective if you focus down one threat at a time while only allowing small parts of the enemy army to shoot at them.

TBH i've never been happy with their damage, but they can tag team a vehicle to death, its minimum 3 shots, sure most of the time 1 misses but its okay. I always lean towards vehicles due to how effective QS is, and how weak heavy destroyers are atm. Plus I like having MWBD on my tesla immortals.

My TA always does work, so if I can leave these backfield and not worry about them I may have some luck. Its more about the wraiths and c'tan, I feel they are fun llittle nasty bombs. Shall see.

Good to hear Klowny.

Have you guys and gals heard or read anything about the eldar codex? Some big point drops there. Hope it's a good indication for the Necron codex or perhaps chapter approved.

 Klowny wrote:
So I'm doing something that not many people are going to agree with, but for my Masters list I'm...... dropping the pylon.

So I've found its damage is INSANELY swingy. Today it didnt kill a flyer, or a LRBT. It whiffs so badly when it does, and its such a points investment, that I'm now moving away from variable damage as much as possible. 10 immortals in cover is troll as feth, so I'm going to take a variation on my current list, as I've playtested it enough to have a good idea of the mechanics of it.

Here we go lads:

Outrider
1x o/lord w/ HPS
10x Immortals
1x Deciever
1x Nightbringer
6x wraiths
6x wraiths
9x Tomb Blades, 5 vanes, 5 looms, Gauss
1x TA
1x DDA

Aux Support
1x Stalker w/ THGC

Normally I'm against melee deceiver bombs, but considering how stupid durable wraiths are I'm confident they will soak enough wounds to get the c'tan into their lines

C'Tans, Tomb Blades and Wraiths are some of my favorite units, not sure why, speed, versatility and fluff I guess , I really want that list to do well, keep us updated!

Does anyone know if Necrons had a list that did ok at the BAO?

Jessica Bowman took a respectable 46th place at BAO with:

OL
Cryptek
10 Warriors
10 Warriors
10 Warriors
5 Wraiths
5 Wraiths
3 Wraiths
Abarge, gauss
Abarge, gauss
Abarge, gauss
Gauss pylon

Sorry I meant the So-Cal Open that just happened.

Question, I primarily play against a friend who fields Eldar,
I find I am constantly at a disadvantage, his little troops have a decent time vs my Vehichles, he can bring much more concentrated firepower in smaller units etc. Last his spells are easy to cast and I simply have no defense vs multiple smites. Any advice?

92 place out of 136.

CCB
5 Immortals
5 Praetorians pistol & sword
5 Praetorians pistol & sword
9 Scarabs
9 Scarabs
9 Scarabs
6 Wraiths
6 Wraiths
6 Wraiths
Gauss pylon

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
92 place out of 136.

CCB
5 Immortals
5 Praetorians pistol & sword
5 Praetorians pistol & sword
9 Scarabs
9 Scarabs
9 Scarabs
6 Wraiths
6 Wraiths
6 Wraiths
Gauss pylon

Jessica again?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There are some talks that FW units might be banned for some tournaments. Also i feel like FW units are too powerful and rules updates very very slow.

Pylon is very cool but i'm going to use GW models for now.
So now my list have 3 DDA.
It's average 6 S10 AP-5 D6 shots + 30 AP-1 S4 shots. 42W total + Quantum shield.

Average damage per turn is 18W via big guns and 30 AP-1 shots.

I think that should be solid damage output.

No, not Jessica, some Justin guy.

I'm also not investing in FW since in my meta they are usually banned.

As fot the Doomsday Arks you are also paying 609 points for those shots, unfortunately that's where Necrons are today.

In my last two games I've played against armies with -1 to hit. The DDAs didn't do anything except some damage from their gauss. 1d3 shots with -1 to hit wounding on 3+ and then D6 wounds. I usually roll a 1 on the damage roll when I finally hit. Then another 1 after a CP reroll.

That gun really needs to be heavy 3 and 3-6 damage. It's for fricking sake called doomsday cannon.

I've noticed that people usually bring damage 2 and 3 weapons since they are more reliable than D6 damage weapons. Couple this with T6 and your vehicles go down fast.

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
92 place out of 136.

CCB
5 Immortals
5 Praetorians pistol & sword
5 Praetorians pistol & sword
9 Scarabs
9 Scarabs
9 Scarabs
6 Wraiths
6 Wraiths
6 Wraiths
Gauss pylon

Those Immortals just seem out out place to me not gonna lie. Don't know what else I'd spend those points on though.

I guess people who would play necrons earlier now play other armies in tournaments.

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
No, not Jessica, some Justin guy.

I'm also not investing in FW since in my meta they are usually banned.

As fot the Doomsday Arks you are also paying 609 points for those shots, unfortunately that's where Necrons are today.

In my last two games I've played against armies with -1 to hit. The DDAs didn't do anything except some damage from their gauss. 1d3 shots with -1 to hit wounding on 3+ and then D6 wounds. I usually roll a 1 on the damage roll when I finally hit. Then another 1 after a CP reroll.

That gun really needs to be heavy 3 and 3-6 damage. It's for fricking sake called doomsday cannon.

I've noticed that people usually bring damage 2 and 3 weapons since they are more reliable than D6 damage weapons. Couple this with T6 and your vehicles go down fast.

I'm thinking maybe 3x20 warriors + 2 Ghost Arks + 6 Annihilation Barges + Scarabs will work.
Annihilation Barges will give you objectives grabbing turn 1 & 2 while slow warriors will approach them.

Zaqir, I also have a friend who plays Eldar.
What I've found out are the following.

Scarabs are great against Eldar Infantry. Bring a couple of larger units. They are also good wound pools for mortal wounds.

Wraiths are also excellent, except against mortal wounds.

Necron infantry usually shred Eldar infantry. In this case Warriors are a good choice since Eldars have T3. This also makes the Ghost ark a viable choice.

Tomb blades are also a very good choice to hunt down Warp Spiders and kill the Dark Reapers.

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
I'm thinking maybe 3x20 warriors + 2 Ghost Arks + 6 Annihilation Barges + Scarabs will work.
Annihilation Barges will give you objectives grabbing turn 1 & 2 while slow warriors will approach them.

20 man warrior blobs are a trap. You will burn all of your CPs turn 1 or 2 to not have the unit completely evaporate to morale. Then turn 3 when the opponent can usually bring their whole army to bear on you including most slow CC units they will poof anyways. So, you're hoping you luck out on getting objectives that are close to your army and scoring as much as you can turn 1 or 2. It just doesn't work reliably.

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
Zaqir, I also have a friend who plays Eldar.
What I've found out are the following.

Scarabs are great against Eldar Infantry. Bring a couple of larger units. They are also good wound pools for mortal wounds.

Wraiths are also excellent, except against mortal wounds.

Necron infantry usually shred Eldar infantry. In this case Warriors are a good choice since Eldars have T3. This also makes the Ghost ark a viable choice.

Tomb blades are also a very good choice to hunt down Warp Spiders and kill the Dark Reapers.

I don't usually have too much problem with his infantry, but he can soak up my stuff with guardians (and usually shunts alot of hits if i use tesla from AH barges on the weapon platform)

The problem is with the things like Wraithguard, 5-15 flamershots tear anything i have up, are super tough and autohit so scarabs attacking them just kinda die.

Tomb Blades never get far enough to properly engage reapers etc he holds em back, they have insane range and the amount of firepower/shots they have tear me apart, aside from exploding tesla shots i don't have anything that can compare with his amount of firepower. His guardians rolling a ton also tear up vehicles if he gets the 6 roll for - ap.

Also the lack of that extra phase where he literally has like 3 or 4 smites that can take out those units drives me nuts, don't forget he is also using fortune and doom and other things which i simply can't compete with at this time.

Best way to handle Wraithguard is a combo charge with Scarabs/Wraiths and a CC unit such as a CCB or C'tan. If you are able to surround the WG, they can't fall back.

As for psykers, Deathmarks should be able to snipe them since they are low T, few wounds and at the most a 4++ save. Scarabs as mentioned should take the smites.
Hopefully the codex will give Necrons a well deserved psykic defense. Necrons built the fricking pylons to keep the warp at bay so should absolutely have very good psykic protection.

Back in the Warhammer fantasy battle days Dwarves didn't have any magic, but compensated for this by having good protection against it. 40k should handle it in the same way, it's pretty big missing an entire phase in the game.

Anyway...

As for Dark reapers, Wraiths should be excellent against them. You should be able to charge them by turn 2 depending on deployment and bubble wrapping. Wraiths are also good against Eldar in general. With S6 you wound on twos.
You can also shoot the reapers with your heavy weapons, since killing a few of them will cripple their damage output.

I still think that Tom blades with tesla a nebuloscopes are the best against units such as Reapers and Devastators.

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
Best way to handle Wraithguard is a combo charge with Scarabs/Wraiths and a CC unit such as a CCB or C'tan. If you are able to surround the WG, they can't fall back.

As for psykers, Deathmarks should be able to snipe them since they are low T, few wounds and at the most a 4++ save. Scarabs as mentioned should take the smites.
Hopefully the codex will give Necrons a well deserved psykic defense. Necrons built the fricking pylons to keep the warp at bay so should absolutely have very good psykic protection.

Back in the Warhammer fantasy battle days Dwarves didn't have any magic, but compensated for this by having good protection against it. 40k should handle it in the same way, it's pretty big missing an entire phase in the game.

Anyway...

As for Dark reapers, Wraiths should be excellent against them. You should be able to charge them by turn 2 depending on deployment and bubble wrapping. Wraiths are also good against Eldar in general. With S6 you wound on twos.
You can also shoot the reapers with your heavy weapons, since killing a few of them will cripple their damage output.

I still think that Tom blades with tesla a nebuloscopes are the best against units such as Reapers and Devastators.

ty for the advice, I am going to consider another unit of Death marks. (doesn't help i find vs Eldraad or a Hemlock) and more scarabs.

What are the general thoughts of wraith squads? Should I try 1 with 6 or 2 x 3...

So you already have a unit of Deathmarks? Personally I wouldn't put more than a 200 points into them, so either two units of 5 or a unit of 10. Both have their advantages. I usually use a unit of 10 since that makes them very survivable in cover. I rarely put them in rapid fire range since then they only get charged.

The Hemlock is difficult to deal with for the Necrons. You have to blow it out of the sky since it's weapons doesn't degrade. I usually run Heavy destroyers with an OL. They are pretty good at shooting it down. However I know that most people doesn't like the Heavy destroyers.

I like to have one big unit of 5-6 Wraiths. Although I haven't tried any smaller. A unit of 3 Wraiths would be a chaff unit while a larger unit would have some punsh.

As for Scarabs I always use one unit of 5 or 6 and then add one more unit if I can afford. Haven't tried out a max sized unit, but I think I would prefer a medium and a small sized unit instead.

No we like Heavy Destroyers. They're just way too expensive.

So with retreating models unable to use RP, does that make the cheap Lord with res orb more valuable than they were? Seems like they would arguably be just as beneficial to a full 20 unit of warriors as a Cryptek is.
Necrons are such a one trick pony right now and all my local players know the trick. Focus fire the hell out of everything, deny RP. RP doesn't seem to do anything for me in 8th, and that's whenever I'm even able to use it. If it wasn't for the 5++ I wouldn't bring crypteks at all more than likely

I would never use a 20 man unit of Warriors in the first place so I don't think it to be an issue myself.

I rarely do battalions, vanguard and/or outrider instead, focus less on RP to be that pony.

Try to play it so that RP is an annoyance they better deal with, or else it bites, but if they do, you should have plenty options left (scarabs, QS, wraiths, tomb blades, perhaps even praetorians, pylon)

Hey all, what do you think of this list. It's my first time trying a 2000pt list in 8th. I was contemplating trying to get the night bringer in there, but what do you think?

Lists are out for a team tournament I'm attending in two weeks. Highlander, no FW, no unique units, no lord of war, max 6 vehicles.

A surpisingly large amount of Necron players, 11 out of 88! That's incredible.

7 of the lists have maxed out units of Destroyers + 1 Heavy.
Three of them have Heavy Destroyers.
Very few vehicles.

This list seems interesting:
NECRONS - OUTRIDER DETACHMENT (4CP) [1497pts]
HQ
Cryotek [104pts]
FAST ATTACK
6x Canoptek Wraiths, 1x Particle Caster [232pts]
6x Canoptek Wraiths [228pts]
3x Canoptek Scarabs [39pts]
3x Tomb Blades, 3x Two Gauss Blasters [126pts]
6x Destroyers [378pts]
5x Destroyers + 1x Heavy Destroyer [390pts]

I would bring some units with Quantum Shielding. If other Necron players are bringing max units of Destroyers that can do D3 or D6 damage and there is a possibility to go up against other Necrons then use models with QS to deny their damage and to give them a hard time.

It's a bit weird to give "counter-tactics" regarding our own army but if anyone knows Necrons weakness and powers it should be all of us by this stage.

Can you guys PLEASE put your army lists under spoilers in the tactics discussion thread.


Additionally,

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I would never use a 20 man unit of Warriors in the first place

Hear, hear.
If they don't do something to fix Warriors come December, I don't think I'll be using them again for a long time.

20 man Warrior blocks are dumb and I hate them but honestly they work.

Then again I'm still on the "nothing really works in Necrons" train until we get a Codex or at least until Chapter Approved.

Requizen wrote:
20 man Warrior blocks are dumb and I hate them but honestly they work.

Then again I'm still on the "nothing really works in Necrons" train until we get a Codex or at least until Chapter Approved.

They really don't. You gotta support them with like 3 characters and they're still susceptible to morale and junk.

So what's the optimal size? 15?
I have like 50 warriors in my army from 7th I'm working with, I have a lot of infantry and not a lot of vehicles. Trying not to buy anything until we see what happens with a codex and/or chapter approved so I'm just trying to get by with what I have for now

If you ABSOLUTELY had to run a Battalion + 1 Detachment (probably Outrider, as our only decent stuff is in FA),
And you decided you were going to take three units of 10 Tes-Immortals for your required Troops choice,
What would be the best HQ to take as the three required ones?
I'm tossing up between 3 OLs (cheaper) and 3 CCBs (QS spam) to dish out MWBD.
Thing is, though, at the moment there's nothing else worth giving MWBD to that I can think of worth adding to a list like that (Scarabs, Wraiths, Tomb Blades, Annihilation Barges, etc).

If you have Deathmarks on your list, they can benefit from MWBD to dish out extra MW from the extra successful hits.

arhurt wrote:
If you have Deathmarks on your list, they can benefit from MWBD to dish out extra MW from the extra successful hits.

MWBD has no effect on the mortal wounds from deathmarks. It increases your hit rolls. Not your wound rolls. The mortal wounds trigger on wound rolls.

Inevitableq wrote:

arhurt wrote:
If you have Deathmarks on your list, they can benefit from MWBD to dish out extra MW from the extra successful hits.

MWBD has no effect on the mortal wounds from deathmarks. It increases your hit rolls. Not your wound rolls. The mortal wounds trigger on wound rolls.

I think his point was - more extra hits -> more potential MW.

I will try to run 6x10 warriors as troops, Ghost Ark, 2 Cryptecs as HQ, 3x8 scarabs, DDA, 2xStalker.

Dew wrote:
So what's the optimal size? 15?
I have like 50 warriors in my army from 7th I'm working with, I have a lot of infantry and not a lot of vehicles. Trying not to buy anything until we see what happens with a codex and/or chapter approved so I'm just trying to get by with what I have for now

If you're going all in with warriors, then go with 20. Try to make the best of it with supporting HQs. Do you have a Ghost Ark? Might run that from time to time too (not as a transport but for the extra RP Roll). 3 or 4 large squads of warriors with scarab screen and supporting HQs certainly is a tough nut to crack.

Note that a lone Ghost Ark as your only vehicle would get singled out by enemies' heavier weapons.

The variant where you use the Deceiver to forward deploy is also quite strong. If you get 3 units, you could have a Ghost Ark with HQs of choice as the 3rd unit after 2x20 warriors

Illuminor Szeras to augment them would be good.

Speed and High Toughness targets will as always be your problems. If you don't have anti armor vehicles (Stalker/DDA/TA) then Heavy destroyers would be your last resort.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:

Inevitableq wrote:

arhurt wrote:
If you have Deathmarks on your list, they can benefit from MWBD to dish out extra MW from the extra successful hits.

MWBD has no effect on the mortal wounds from deathmarks. It increases your hit rolls. Not your wound rolls. The mortal wounds trigger on wound rolls.

I think his point was - more extra hits -> more potential MW.

If you punch the numbers in dice-hammer.com that I am linking to, and check "Sniper" for the MW on 6's, and toggle +1 to hit, it shows roughly 1 additional damage for the +1 to hit, more against weaker saves. Less (of course) outside rapid fire range.

I think his point was - more extra hits -> more potential MW.

I will try to run 6x10 warriors as troops, Ghost Ark, 2 Cryptecs as HQ, 3x8 scarabs, DDA, 2xStalker.

I was simply trying to limit potential misinformation. Ive been told three times recently how good that combo is by people who thought it worked the same as tesla. Just want to help.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/25 21:49:13

Post by: torblind

This is a good thread. I glanced through the other factions tactica threads and they all start around june/july, but nobody come near our post count. Apparently we have some serious tactical challenges to discuss in depth.

Reply by: walkiflalka - click to view full reply 

67411

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 01:59:48

Post by: walkiflalka

I'm wondering if everyone else agrees that anti-tank is our biggest weakness. The points investment to get ANY anti-tank at all is super high and if you miss 1-2 shots on any given turn that is a lot of wasted points. Whereas say, space marines, can take a lascannon for 25 points on a 13 point model. I personally think all our anti-tank should be a bit cheaper, and we should get an anti tank infantry unit.

All that aside, do you all think 2 triarch stalkers with heavy gauss cannons is a decent way to run anti tank? I like that they get 2 shots guaranteed. However, I have had terrible roles every time I have played them and have yet to destroy a leman russ with one.

I find the damage output from heavy destroyers to be far more reliable when there are 3 of them, but they always get focused down. Thoughts?

Reply by: Slayer-Fan123 - click to view full reply 

90435

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 02:29:15

Post by: Slayer-Fan123

I'm more mad that Warriors can't fire out a Ghost Ark anymore. Ridiculous nerf that wasn't even needed.

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 05:02:06

Post by: skoffs

torblind wrote:
This is a good thread. I glanced through the other factions tactica threads and they all start around june/july, but nobody come near our post count. Apparently we have some serious tactical challenges to discuss in depth.

Two reasons:
- we're waiting for the codex to come out before starting a new thread (as there will be enough new info to warrant a fresh new discussion).
- we're at a pretty decent disadvantage at the moment, so have had to go into detail discussing and testing all of our various combinations to see what works best. The process has taken a while... (still ongoing, really, but we've distilled it down enough to understand what more or less works for everyone).

TL;DR-
• Scarabs = good
• Tesla Immortals with MWBD = good
• big Gauss Pylon = good
• everything else = ranges from "not horrible" to "meh" to "god no"

Reply by: walkiflalka - click to view full reply 

67411

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 06:53:06

Post by: walkiflalka

 skoffs wrote:

torblind wrote:
This is a good thread. I glanced through the other factions tactica threads and they all start around june/july, but nobody come near our post count. Apparently we have some serious tactical challenges to discuss in depth.

Two reasons:
- we're waiting for the codex to come out before starting a new thread (as there will be enough new info to warrant a fresh new discussion).
- we're at a pretty decent disadvantage at the moment, so have had to go into detail discussing and testing all of our various combinations to see what works best. The process has taken a while... (still ongoing, really, but we've distilled it down enough to understand what more or less works for everyone).

TL;DR-
• Scarabs = good
• Tesla Immortals with MWBD = good
• big Gauss Pylon = good
• everything else = ranges from "not horrible" to "meh" to "god no"

I think the effect of all of this is exaggerated by how good some other factions have come out of 8th as well... *cough* Imperial Guard *Cough*

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 07:01:22

Post by: torblind

 walkiflalka wrote:
I'm wondering if everyone else agrees that anti-tank is our biggest weakness. The points investment to get ANY anti-tank at all is super high and if you miss 1-2 shots on any given turn that is a lot of wasted points. Whereas say, space marines, can take a lascannon for 25 points on a 13 point model. I personally think all our anti-tank should be a bit cheaper, and we should get an anti tank infantry unit.

All that aside, do you all think 2 triarch stalkers with heavy gauss cannons is a decent way to run anti tank? I like that they get 2 shots guaranteed. However, I have had terrible roles every time I have played them and have yet to destroy a leman russ with one.

I find the damage output from heavy destroyers to be far more reliable when there are 3 of them, but they always get focused down. Thoughts?

4 shots would be better than 3 though?

Reply by: Odrankt - click to view full reply 

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Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 07:01:29

Post by: Odrankt

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm more mad that Warriors can't fire out a Ghost Ark anymore. Ridiculous nerf that wasn't even needed.

Think about it though. If the GA was still open-topped and had a unit of Warriors then for the price of 290pts you would be getting 20 S4 -1 D1 shots within 24" standard and anything from 1-20 shots extra if in rapid fire range.

Also, if they left it open-topped then Characters would also be able to shoot out of it as well. Imagine Szeras in a GA popping his S8 Lance in the safety of a GA knowing he wouldn't be downed easily?

I personally wish they didn't change it but I feel as if people would have "abused" GAs this edition if left open topped. I personally would rather 20-40 S4 shots (with the possibility of swapping some warriors with Infantry Characters for better weapons) over 20 S4 shots and D3 S10 from a DDA and I think GW knew that based off of 7th edit.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 07:28:00

Post by: torblind

 Odrankt wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm more mad that Warriors can't fire out a Ghost Ark anymore. Ridiculous nerf that wasn't even needed.

Think about it though. If the GA was still open-topped and had a unit of Warriors then for the price of 290pts you would be getting 20 S4 -1 D1 shots within 24" standard and anything from 1-20 shots extra if in rapid fire range.

Also, if they left it open-topped then Characters would also be able to shoot out of it as well. Imagine Szeras in a GA popping his S8 Lance in the safety of a GA knowing he wouldn't be downed easily?

I personally wish they didn't change it but I feel as if people would have "abused" GAs this edition if left open topped. I personally would rather 20-40 S4 shots (with the possibility of swapping some warriors with Infantry Characters for better weapons) over 20 S4 shots and D3 S10 from a DDA and I think GW knew that based off of 7th edit.

I dont know other codices, but are you saying those that have open topped transports don't have powerful shooting characters? (could be, I wouldnt know)

Also they took away the gauss ability to glance a vehicle to death, upgrading the Ghost Ark to a total gun bus wouldn't be an unreasonable compromise.

I would argue that fluffwise it could make sense though, and if you look at the model. I mean they are hanging there on hooks to get repaired, arms crossed. They are not standing by with guns raised aiming between the rips.

Reply by: Odrankt - click to view full reply 

110781

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 08:06:25

Post by: Odrankt

I dont know other codices, but are you saying those that have open topped transports don't have powerful shooting characters? (could be, I wouldnt know)

Also they took away the gauss ability to glance a vehicle to death, upgrading the Ghost Ark to a total gun bus wouldn't be an unreasonable compromise.

I would argue that fluffwise it could make sense though, and if you look at the model. I mean they are hanging there on hooks to get repaired, arms crossed. They are not standing by with guns raised aiming between the rips.

I was trying to reference that in 7th the GA could only transport Warriors and was open-topped while in 8th it can now transport both Warriors and Infantry Characters but does not allow open-topped Shooting anymore. I think other Armies have ways of allowing models with high Strength guns to fire from inside vehicles but can not think of one to reference.

In 7th the GA was known as a mobile Infantry killer due to it's speed, number of shots via the Arrays and warriors and that it could glance on 6s against all enemies vehicles. Basically the opposite of what the GA was supposed to be used for. In 8th the GA now acts more "fluffy" instead of being a gun boat of death.

Based off of Fluff the GA is their as a "Support" vehicle. It holds broken/damaged warriors in it's "sockets", repairs them from top to bottom and then releases them to battle while another unit of damaged Warriors go Into it to get repaired for more battling. Rinse and repeat kinda situation which wasn't represented in 7th edit that well due to everyone using them as their "alpha" for killing Infantry and vehicle units.

Although, I do miss my match-up of GA and Tomb Blades from 7th. Those 2 units were always my MVPs due to how destructive they were.

Reply by: Slayer-Fan123 - click to view full reply 

90435

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 09:05:37

Post by: Slayer-Fan123

 Odrankt wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm more mad that Warriors can't fire out a Ghost Ark anymore. Ridiculous nerf that wasn't even needed.

Think about it though. If the GA was still open-topped and had a unit of Warriors then for the price of 290pts you would be getting 20 S4 -1 D1 shots within 24" standard and anything from 1-20 shots extra if in rapid fire range.

Also, if they left it open-topped then Characters would also be able to shoot out of it as well. Imagine Szeras in a GA popping his S8 Lance in the safety of a GA knowing he wouldn't be downed easily?

I personally wish they didn't change it but I feel as if people would have "abused" GAs this edition if left open topped. I personally would rather 20-40 S4 shots (with the possibility of swapping some warriors with Infantry Characters for better weapons) over 20 S4 shots and D3 S10 from a DDA and I think GW knew that based off of 7th edit.

Abused? Really?
You think someone would buy a Ghost Ark just for Illuminor to shoot from, and that Warriors would really be scary? No, it would make them maybe viable without the codex being needed at this point. 290 points is FAIR for that. It isn't like they were really abused or broken in 6th or 7th either. They had uses but they weren't broken. It's a bad excuse to defend them for this move.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Odrankt wrote:

I dont know other codices, but are you saying those that have open topped transports don't have powerful shooting characters? (could be, I wouldnt know)

Also they took away the gauss ability to glance a vehicle to death, upgrading the Ghost Ark to a total gun bus wouldn't be an unreasonable compromise.

I would argue that fluffwise it could make sense though, and if you look at the model. I mean they are hanging there on hooks to get repaired, arms crossed. They are not standing by with guns raised aiming between the rips.

I was trying to reference that in 7th the GA could only transport Warriors and was open-topped while in 8th it can now transport both Warriors and Infantry Characters but does not allow open-topped Shooting anymore. I think other Armies have ways of allowing models with high Strength guns to fire from inside vehicles but can not think of one to reference.

In 7th the GA was known as a mobile Infantry killer due to it's speed, number of shots via the Arrays and warriors and that it could glance on 6s against all enemies vehicles. Basically the opposite of what the GA was supposed to be used for. In 8th the GA now acts more "fluffy" instead of being a gun boat of death.

Based off of Fluff the GA is their as a "Support" vehicle. It holds broken/damaged warriors in it's "sockets", repairs them from top to bottom and then releases them to battle while another unit of damaged Warriors go Into it to get repaired for more battling. Rinse and repeat kinda situation which wasn't represented in 7th edit that well due to everyone using them as their "alpha" for killing Infantry and vehicle units.

Although, I do miss my match-up of GA and Tomb Blades from 7th. Those 2 units were always my MVPs due to how destructive they were.

It wasn't Gunboat of Death...it was gunboat. You're overstating the offensiveness of it, and the nerf was unnecessary.

Also it always allowed transporting of characters. It was just impossible to get Characters with the 7th edit to ride with Warriors because they went back to 10 minimum.

Reply by: Odrankt - click to view full reply 

110781

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 09:48:01

Post by: Odrankt

Maybe our metas were different in 7th and maybe our rolls were different but all my local Necron players always fielded GAs in 7th and always had great success till more powerful and broken list were able to be made.

I remembered the GA being a gun boat of death from my experiences of playing it and being played against it.

Also, I wasn't trying to say that people would specifically rock out a GA + Warriors + Szeras for his gun I was just saying that it would basically be a "worse" version off a DDA but with more volume of S4 shots.

I wasn't trying to make an excused either. I wish the GA had open-topped but because of it's fluff and main purpose (to repair and bring back warriors) I think it makes sense that they dropped the open-topped. The warriors inside are supposed to be broken, damage and non-functional so why would they be able to shoot out of the ark if they are in need of repair and/or being transported to another area of the table top.

We both probably have different views on how a GA is supposed to work but from my Point of View I can understand why GW dropped some of it's tricks.

Also, I jumped on this game at the end of 6th and properly started playing when I purchased the Necron Codex in 7th. So, I am sorry if you don't agree with some of my Information. Just giving my point of view and your entitled to disagree with the points I made. Not trying to bug anyone or cause a thread war.

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 12:23:14

Post by: skoffs

Ghost Arks could always carry HQ.
There was a time in 5th, when the Harbingers were around, that you could stick a single Harbinger Of Destruction into a GA and have a decent weapons platform. It was kind of a cool second use for them but it's not like people were spamming them because they were oh so OP or anything (that was reserved for Harbingers of the Storm hopping out of Night Scythes with Gauss Immortals to take down Landraiders in a single volley. That and Harbingers of Despair Veiling in with Deathmarks next to enemy elites to drop an AP1 flame template that wounded on a 2+. And Destroyer Lords granting Preferred Enemy to Wraiths to make Wraith Wings that could blend anything they came in contact with. And Cron-Air. And Mindshackle Scarabs... Ah, good times, good times...)

Reply by: pismakron - click to view full reply 

113188

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 12:36:06

Post by: pismakron

Would you take an open-topped ghost-ark even if it came with 1 less T at the same cost?

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 12:48:34

Post by: torblind

pismakron wrote:
Would you take an open-topped ghost-ark even if it came with 1 less T at the same cost?

wiht apropriately reduced cost, I'd say yes. 2-3 of them racing up the field to cause havoc while scarabs gather objectives would likely be a viable strategy, drizzle with heavy weapons as apropriate.

Reply by: Klowny - click to view full reply 

98911

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 18:06:21

Post by: Klowny

walkiflalka wrote:I'm wondering if everyone else agrees that anti-tank is our biggest weakness. The points investment to get ANY anti-tank at all is super high and if you miss 1-2 shots on any given turn that is a lot of wasted points. Whereas say, space marines, can take a lascannon for 25 points on a 13 point model. I personally think all our anti-tank should be a bit cheaper, and we should get an anti tank infantry unit.

All that aside, do you all think 2 triarch stalkers with heavy gauss cannons is a decent way to run anti tank? I like that they get 2 shots guaranteed. However, I have had terrible roles every time I have played them and have yet to destroy a leman russ with one.

I find the damage output from heavy destroyers to be far more reliable when there are 3 of them, but they always get focused down. Thoughts?

nope, our biggest weakness is our price. We lack anti tank if you dont go FW, there we have incredible options. The tesseract ark is one of the best units we have, very close to MWBD tesla immortals. destroyers just die to quickly, why have them when you can have the same firepower on a much more durable chassis? 2 stalkers are okay, but 1 TA is head and shoulders better.

skoffs wrote:

torblind wrote:
This is a good thread. I glanced through the other factions tactica threads and they all start around june/july, but nobody come near our post count. Apparently we have some serious tactical challenges to discuss in depth.

Two reasons:
- we're waiting for the codex to come out before starting a new thread (as there will be enough new info to warrant a fresh new discussion).
- we're at a pretty decent disadvantage at the moment, so have had to go into detail discussing and testing all of our various combinations to see what works best. The process has taken a while... (still ongoing, really, but we've distilled it down enough to understand what more or less works for everyone).

TL;DR-
• Scarabs = good
• Tesla Immortals with MWBD = good
• big Gauss Pylon = good
• everything else = ranges from "not horrible" to "meh" to "god no"

Scarabs are good, wraiths are good, tomb blades are v.good, tesla immortals with MWBD are v.good, big gauss pylon is okay, tesseract ark is v.good, nightbringer is good.

Destroyers are bad, anni barge is bad, DDA is okay, most hq's are okay, warriors are terrible, stalkers are okay.

Most of this could use a substantial price decrease, and then wed be pretty competitive.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

torblind wrote:

pismakron wrote:
Would you take an open-topped ghost-ark even if it came with 1 less T at the same cost?

wiht apropriately reduced cost, I'd say yes. 2-3 of them racing up the field to cause havoc while scarabs gather objectives would likely be a viable strategy, drizzle with heavy weapons as apropriate.

A T5 vehicle? thats very bad. suddenly its QS isnt protecting it and it is threatened by a plethora of weapons that were previously hurting it on 5's. No thank you. Keep it the way it is and give it open topped, its terrible as it stands.

Reply by: Requizen - click to view full reply 

89474

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 18:31:40

Post by: Requizen

Curious, how are you equipping and using Tomb Blades that you rate them so highly? As 3 man suicide units with high damage? Big units to screen for C'tan/CCB? Small/Medium units just as general mobility?

Reply by: Lothmar - click to view full reply 

114914

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/26 20:13:32

Post by: Lothmar

I'd love just making ghost ark open topped and still like it is...

However if necessary I also wouldn't mind buying it in different modes.
Path 1 - Closed top and has repair bay (maybe say it cant transport unless a unit is missing models and can only spit them back out once squad is full or ghost ark explodes) but gets +1 toughness. (lightly armed ambulance)
Path 2 - Open top, can transport 10 man (maybe give it the option to drop the flayer arrays for 5 man 'seating' (imagining jumper vest locking around chest as they hang off the side) each for a max of 20 man transport), doesn't give second reprot, current toughness, perhaps give it a weapon options to replace flayer array with gauss blaster or tesla arrays. (gunboat / Firing platform)

Reply by: Klowny - click to view full reply 

98911

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/27 17:39:50

Post by: Klowny

Requizen wrote:
Curious, how are you equipping and using Tomb Blades that you rate them so highly? As 3 man suicide units with high damage? Big units to screen for C'tan/CCB? Small/Medium units just as general mobility?

Squads of 9, 5 vanes, 5 scopes. They regularly get into Rapid fire range, so they do the most damage of all the infantry guns. -2 helps in many cases as we spam tesla everywhere else. Having a mix of +/++ means they an have a better chance of surviving across a wider range of weapon profiles. I have been in tournaments where they would face high str tank guns some games, others games masses of shots from cheap hordes, having lots of saves on T5, 2W 14"M chassis reanimating vehicles is very nice. You have to be semi defensive with them, I normally run a bigger threat (pylon before, twin c'tan wraith bombs now) to draw focus away from them. They balance well with MWBD tesla immortals as very high quality infantry massed shooting, with this on the frontline, the immortals at the back lashing the lightning. They are fast too, so can race up, rapidfire, have good overwatch, withstand genestealer charges (esp with the mix of saves), only to reanimate, fly out of combat and blast again. Turbo boost to objectives late game, go where they please ignoring models. Way better than 5"M infantry with half the durability IMO

Reply by: ArtyomTrityak - click to view full reply 

103826

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/27 19:08:07

Post by: ArtyomTrityak

4x10 warriors worked really bad. They just got 7-8 casualties and run away. Now i'm thinking of bringing 2x14 warriors and 1x10 Tesla immortals so they can potentially be reanimated.

2xStalkers were great. They did more damage than DDA.

Reply by: Lothmar - click to view full reply 

114914

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/27 20:39:34

Post by: Lothmar

...I dont know why im focused on this idea but my brain keeps trying to assemble this and im not sure why cause it doesn't seem like it would be a good idea...

Spoiler:

2k - Outrider 2x, Spearhead 1

HQ - (deploy in ark behind mono)
Destroyer Lord 142
Cryptek 104
Overlord 119
Fast
Destroyer squad - 5x +1 Heavy = 390 (Hold in reserve, exit monolith gate.)
Scarabs 3 - 39 (Place on front deployment limit)
Scarabs 3x - 39 (Place on front deployment limit)
Scarabs 3x - 39 (Place on front deployment limit)
Scarabs 3x - 39 (Place on front deployment limit)
Scarabs 3x - 39 (Place on front deployment limit)

Heavy
Monolith - 381 (Place as wall for ghost ark. Grand Illusion target 1 - place 24 inches from enemies if you are first or 32 so you can move into range on your turn if the enemy doesn't on theirs.)

Canoptek spyder - Fab claw - 84 (Forward deployment edge - On 3 units Grand illusion behind mono as dedicated repair)
Canoptek Spyder - Particle & Fab claw - 94 Forward deployment edge
Canoptek Spyder - Particle & Fab claw - 94 Forward deployment edge

Elite
Ctan Deciever - 225 (Place accordingly. If 1 on grand illusion CP to reroll. Hopefully you get a 2+.)

Transport
Ghost Ark - 170 (Grand illusion target 2. Place to get leadership behind destroyer Line.)

Any suggestions on how to tweak this?

Basically the destroyers and monolith on this feel like they're a distraction while the scarabs gap close and while I think the spyders are in there to replensh scarabs if they get depleted but not wiped (cause you want many spyder squads cause it's based on number of them available and then at least 1 being close so that you can attempt to spawn) but if I remember right the difference in move becomes a bitch on this (6" to 10")...

Really wish there was a wargear option for Spyders so they gained movement for every scarab base in 1-3" or something with a maximum of 10" total movement. Then they could really serve this purpose...

Reply by: ArtyomTrityak - click to view full reply 

103826

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/27 20:52:31

Post by: ArtyomTrityak

Lothmar wrote:
...I dont know why im focused on this idea but my brain keeps trying to assemble this and im not sure why cause it doesn't seem like it would be a good idea...

Spoiler:

2k - Outrider 2x, Spearhead 1

HQ - (deploy in ark behind mono)
Destroyer Lord 142
Cryptek 104
Overlord 119
Fast
Destroyer squad - 5x +1 Heavy = 390 (Hold in reserve, exit monolith gate.)
Scarabs 3 - 39 (Place on front deployment limit)
Scarabs 3x - 39 (Place on front deployment limit)
Scarabs 3x - 39 (Place on front deployment limit)
Scarabs 3x - 39 (Place on front deployment limit)
Scarabs 3x - 39 (Place on front deployment limit)

Heavy
Monolith - 381 (Place as wall for ghost ark. Grand Illusion target 1 - place 24 inches from enemies if you are first or 32 so you can move into range on your turn if the enemy doesn't on theirs.)

Canoptek spyder - Fab claw - 84 (Forward deployment edge - On 3 units Grand illusion behind mono as dedicated repair)
Canoptek Spyder - Particle & Fab claw - 94 Forward deployment edge
Canoptek Spyder - Particle & Fab claw - 94 Forward deployment edge

Elite
Ctan Deciever - 225 (Place accordingly. If 1 on grand illusion CP to reroll. Hopefully you get a 2+.)

Transport
Ghost Ark - 170 (Grand illusion target 2. Place to get leadership behind destroyer Line.)

Any suggestions on how to tweak this?

Basically the destroyers and monolith on this feel like they're a distraction while the scarabs gap close and while I think the spyders are in there to replensh scarabs if they get depleted but not wiped (cause you want many spyder squads cause it's based on number of them available and then at least 1 being close so that you can attempt to spawn) but if I remember right the difference in move becomes a bitch on this (6" to 10")...

Really wish there was a wargear option for Spyders so they gained movement for every scarab base in 1-3" or something with a maximum of 10" total movement. Then they could really serve this purpose...

Monolith does not have Quantum Shielding so IMO does not worth points. Also it can be destroyed turn 1 and your Destroyers will be gone.

Reply by: Lothmar - click to view full reply 

114914

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/27 21:20:20

Post by: Lothmar

Arty - Yeah definetly that 50% chance there. If going first yeah it's an ok delivery method.

Yeah im hoping they start allowing Quantum shielding to be a purchasable wargear on models that dont get it already. *chuckle*


----
160

Hmm, maybe I should just focus on the 'Buzz buzz' factor...

Spoiler:

2k - 1x Outrider, 1x Spearhead
HQ -
Catacomb command Barge - 162 (tesla cannon + Warscythe)
Catacomb command Barge - 169 (Tesla cannon + staff)
Fast
Scarabs 8x - 104
Scarabs 8x - 104
Scarabs 8x - 104
Scarabs 8x - 104
Scarabs 8x - 104
Scarabs 8x - 104
Heavy
Canoptek spyder 3x - PB & 1x GP - 263 (GI target 1 to make up slower move rates somewhat...)
Canoptek spyder 3x - PB & 1x GP - 263 (GI target 2 to make up slower move rates somewhat...)
Canoptek spyder 3x - PB & 1x GP - 263 (GI target 3 to make up slower move rates somewhat...)
Elite
Ctan Deciever - 225

--------
Not sure if I should drop the deciever and instead spread the Spyders out to...

Canoptek spyder 2x - PB & 1x GP -177
Canoptek spyder 2x - PB & 1x GP -177
Canoptek spyder 2x - PB & 1x GP -177
Canoptek spyder 2x - PB & 1x GP -177
Canoptek spyder 2x - PB & 1x GP -177

+12x Scarabs = 155

Reply by: ArtyomTrityak - click to view full reply 

103826

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/27 21:32:38

Post by: ArtyomTrityak

Lothmar,

1 Spider poins = 6 scarabs points so you need 6 turns with potential d3 mortal wounds to generate more scarabs.

I don't think Spiders worth their points right now unless you have an idea how to use them.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/27 22:24:38

Post by: torblind

one spyder unit can support unlimited scarab units, however if you manage to make them efficient, they likely are shot dead in an instant. I mean, 4W, T6 3+ is nothing but a speed bump

Reply by: ArtyomTrityak - click to view full reply 

103826

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/27 22:29:45

Post by: ArtyomTrityak

And it's easier to bring another 6 scarabs instead of 1 spider

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/27 22:31:10

Post by: torblind

If you deep strike the Monolith, could you argue that it hasn't "moved" as such, and that you therefore can also deep strike the unit on the tomb world that same turn? Deep striking often counts as moving in terms of heavy weapons penalties.

Reply by: ArtyomTrityak - click to view full reply 

103826

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/28 00:05:16

Post by: ArtyomTrityak

torblind wrote:
If you deep strike the Monolith, could you argue that it hasn't "moved" as such, and that you therefore can also deep strike the unit on the tomb world that same turn? Deep striking often counts as moving in terms of heavy weapons penalties.

You deep strike Monolith "at the end of movement phase". And Gate works IN you movement phase. So when you deep strike Monolith your movement phase has already been finished.

Reply by: Klowny - click to view full reply 

98911

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/28 05:22:52

Post by: Klowny

yeah, scarabs dont actually do a hell of a lot of damage, neither do spyders. The first list had a squad of destroyers as the only damage dealers, second has even less.

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/28 07:10:35

Post by: skoffs

 Klowny wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Curious, how are you equipping and using Tomb Blades that you rate them so highly?

Squads of 9, 5 vanes, 5 scopes. [...] Having a mix of +/++ means they an have a better chance of surviving across a wider range of weapon profiles.

Did you mean 5x Shield Vanes and 5x Shadow looms?

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/28 07:41:15

Post by: torblind

Yes, one model would have both items, the rest only one

Reply by: Klowny - click to view full reply 

98911

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/28 11:31:07

Post by: Klowny

 skoffs wrote:

 Klowny wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Curious, how are you equipping and using Tomb Blades that you rate them so highly?

Squads of 9, 5 vanes, 5 scopes. [...] Having a mix of +/++ means they an have a better chance of surviving across a wider range of weapon profiles.

Did you mean 5x Shield Vanes and 5x Shadow looms?

Haha yes, muscle memory made me type scopes, as that was what I always took in 7th, but now in 8th the shadowlooms are much better imo.

Thanks skoffs

Reply by: Odrankt - click to view full reply 

110781

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/30 06:27:43

Post by: Odrankt

What do ye guys prefer?

Generic Overlord on it's own because of the 4+ invul for 104-119pts.? Cheap enough, gives MWBD to infantry units and has a general good stat line.

Or

Cryptek and CCB w/Tesla for 226pts to gain 3 extra wounds, +1 toughness, Quantum Shielding and a 5+ invul agaisnt Shooting attacks via the Cryptek? 2 HQs over one so could be a good for Battalion detachments. CCB stat line is a little bit better in terms of resilience, swaps the Olords 4+ invul for QS. Can potentially be a CC unit with Scarabs/Wraiths/Nightbringer. Crypteks 5+ invul makes the CCB even more resilient, also buffs RP to 4+ which gives more synergy to any infantry units around the 2 HQs.

I also have another enquiry.

Would ye guys think that a CCB, Kutlakh and Scythe-guard could be a good CC unit?

CCB can move 12" into position, Kutlakh can allow the guard to Advance and charge to gain extra movement as well as getting MWBD or CW to get +1 to them as well. We should be able to cover 10-12" inches before we do an charge rolls.

Several S7 -4 D2 Attacks should wreck any infantry units up as well as having Kutlakh as a back up incase the enemy units are still around. It would be quite expensive to field (around 600-700pts) but it does feel quite thematic imo. If we get a good points drop in Chapter Approved I might start making that my CC Core. Thoughts?

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/30 07:57:36

Post by: torblind

I'd probably run a cryptek or orikan instead of a CCB with the scytheguard and Kutlakh, to improve survivability as they dart over the killing fields.

I'd probably even go for Anrakyr insetad of CCB as the second overlord, for that sweet +1A, though 2 overlords running with the scythguard is a heavy comitment.

Reply by: Odrankt - click to view full reply 

110781

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/30 08:12:12

Post by: Odrankt

The only issue with Orikan is that he specifically buffs Sautekh Necrons while Kutlakh buffs Maynarkh. So, Orikan can't be buffed by advancing and charging and the Lychguard can't get the 5+ invul or +1 RP if they are Maynarkh. Generic Cryptek or Toholk are the only ways to buff a 5+ invul to all those units.

I think Anrakyr could work if paired with Kutlakh and 2 units of Scytheguard. He can't be buffed by Kutlakh due to him only able to buff Maynarkh infantry units. The CCB can be any Dynasty so I fell it is probably the best HQ to take with him.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/30 09:47:01

Post by: torblind

Ah yes, Orikan wouldn't work.

Depending on what you are up against, sword and board might be an option, without a cryptek all together, would give your group 4++ all the way.

If you don't want to over-commit, CCB might be ok, as you could fly it back or elsewhere once it has done its job.

Kutlakh paired with +1 advance and charge means the lychguard has a threat range of 5 + 1 + 1 + d6 + 2d6 = 17.5", might save you a turn of incoming fire in the open.

Reply by: Draco765 - click to view full reply 

101049

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/30 12:43:19

Post by: Draco765

 Odrankt wrote:
What do ye guys prefer?

Generic Overlord on it's own because of the 4+ invul for 104-119pts.? Cheap enough, gives MWBD to infantry units and has a general good stat line.

Or

Cryptek and CCB w/Tesla for 226pts to gain 3 extra wounds, +1 toughness, Quantum Shielding and a 5+ invul agaisnt Shooting attacks via the Cryptek? 2 HQs over one so could be a good for Battalion detachments. CCB stat line is a little bit better in terms of resilience, swaps the Olords 4+ invul for QS. Can potentially be a CC unit with Scarabs/Wraiths/Nightbringer. Crypteks 5+ invul makes the CCB even more resilient, also buffs RP to 4+ which gives more synergy to any infantry units around the 2 HQs.

I also have another enquiry.

Would ye guys think that a CCB, Kutlakh and Scythe-guard could be a good CC unit?

CCB can move 12" into position, Kutlakh can allow the guard to Advance and charge to gain extra movement as well as getting MWBD or CW to get +1 to them as well. We should be able to cover 10-12" inches before we do an charge rolls.

Several S7 -4 D2 Attacks should wreck any infantry units up as well as having Kutlakh as a back up incase the enemy units are still around. It would be quite expensive to field (around 600-700pts) but it does feel quite thematic imo. If we get a good points drop in Chapter Approved I might start making that my CC Core. Thoughts?

Question: In your first set of questions, are you thinking that CCB has <Infantry> keyword?

Reply by: Odrankt - click to view full reply 

110781

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/30 14:11:11

Post by: Odrankt

torblind wrote:
Ah yes, Orikan wouldn't work.

Depending on what you are up against, sword and board might be an option, without a cryptek all together, would give your group 4++ all the way.

If you don't want to over-commit, CCB might be ok, as you could fly it back or elsewhere once it has done its job.

Kutlakh paired with +1 advance and charge means the lychguard has a threat range of 5 + 1 + 1 + d6 + 2d6 = 17.5", might save you a turn of incoming fire in the open.

Problem with Sword and Board is that they are left at S5 rather then S7 which can make a huge difference in terms of dice rolls and damage out put. Maybe 1 unit of 10 Scytheguard, 1 unit of 10 Sword n' Board-guard, Kutlakh and a CCB might be useful? Have the SnB at the front to act as an Anti-charge units with the 4+ saves. As we get closer to the enemy you can charge with the Scytheguard and CCB 1st so you know your gonna do great damage. then use the SnB and Kutlakh as your "back up" to kill anything that survived. You could then consolidate infront of the Scytheguard (if possible) to get back into the original formation. Would that work?

I feel like 2 units of 10 Scytheguard with Kutlakh and a CCB would be an amazing CC unit for us going by your movement breakdown. The only issue would be lack of an invul though so it would probably be Destroyed a little bit easier... Could run 8 man units of Lychguard to save points and put a Cryptek in? Would be quite heavy CC unit with 3 HQs and all those Lychguard but it might be worth it if we get point decrease when CA is out in December.

@Draco765
Indeed I did. I realised it does not have it when I was over-looking it early. Prevents us from giving the CCB an iInvul save due to a Cryptek buffing Infantry units which I thought the CCB had.

The real question is that I have a tournament in 2 weeks and I am running a Overlord atm but I feel like for a few extra points the CCB would be better for it's stats and Quantum Shielding. The only issue is the lack of an Invul save which can't be given due to no Infantry keyword on the CCB. I'm kind of stumped as to what to do. While the CCB is more resistant then an Olord the 4+ invul gives the Olord a slight increase in my books over the CCB better stat line and QS.

Reply by: Dew - click to view full reply 

108723

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/30 15:30:56

Post by: Dew

A lot of the ideas proposed above seem like good ideas to try but they are massive point sinks. Just the World Killer and 10 scythguard alone at 500 points just themselves. That's a quarter of your army right there.
We really need points drop

Reply by: Odrankt - click to view full reply 

110781

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/30 15:43:18

Post by: Odrankt

Like you said, there only ideas. While they seem like they would work and cause great havoc the points cost is unreasonable. 500pts is a lot for 1 HQ and 1 Elite unit. Even if they are able to move, advance and charge it costs to much to be reliable.

If that core is dropped to 400-300pts then I would probably make it my main CC units. On paper it should shred nearly everything in their way besids anything with T8 or higher.

I hope our Points are lowered enough that we can be more flexible. Most of my lists have the same units (Tesla Immos, Triarch Stalker, Tesseract Ark etc) due to our points being high and usually picking the best model/unit per point and potential damage.

Reply by: Lothmar - click to view full reply 

114914

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/30 15:45:04

Post by: Lothmar

torblind wrote:
If you deep strike the Monolith, could you argue that it hasn't "moved" as such, and that you therefore can also deep strike the unit on the tomb world that same turn? Deep striking often counts as moving in terms of heavy weapons penalties.

No but you can field a monolith and Grand illusion it up since that is before the first turn, then on the first turn you can move stuff out the monolith.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/30 18:16:12

Post by: torblind

Lothmar wrote:

torblind wrote:
If you deep strike the Monolith, could you argue that it hasn't "moved" as such, and that you therefore can also deep strike the unit on the tomb world that same turn? Deep striking often counts as moving in terms of heavy weapons penalties.

No but you can field a monolith and Grand illusion it up since that is before the first turn, then on the first turn you can move stuff out the monolith.

Yes, but only if it's alive

Reply by: ArtyomTrityak - click to view full reply 

103826

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/30 18:49:19

Post by: ArtyomTrityak

Monolith does not worth it because it does not have QS

Reply by: Pyrothem - click to view full reply 

106140

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/30 20:39:08

Post by: Pyrothem

Also the Monolith and N Scythe lack the Transport key word so no moving the troops you bring in with it... just trash over costed units.

2018 can't come soon enough.

Reply by: Requizen - click to view full reply 

89474

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/30 20:43:41

Post by: Requizen

Everything with RP needs to go down in points. They really overcosted RP, as if "shoot a single unit to death at a time" was a difficult counter that no enemy would ever figure out.

Vehicles are mostly fine, maybe could come down a smidge but mostly I think they just need to fudge some of the rules a bit.

Reply by: Game_maker - click to view full reply 

114360

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/31 03:24:48

Post by: Game_maker

An alternative to reducing points on our reanimation protocol units that would be pretty fluffy would be to allow a few ways of returning destroyed units to the field. I think that if ghost arks or res orbs could allow for an emergency RP roll for a downed unit it would make our army much more durable as a whole.

Reply by: Lothmar - click to view full reply 

114914

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/31 15:33:15

Post by: Lothmar

Yeah my issue with rez orb is I tend to either use it too early and then regret it, or the unit is wiped entirely or fails its morale check before I would use it to the point that I sometimes die with it on my Hq.

Kind of wish if you hadn't dropped the rez orb when your Hq dropped it broke and the HQ got back up at either a d3 or full wounds, or a unit in range got an immediate RP. *chuckle*

Or alternatively it gave a passive bonus in addition to the one time use. Ex: +1 re prot / toughness to units within 1-3 inches. The carrier counts as a model in the unit RP'ing and therfor models can be placed around it as well so long as they remain in cohesion with the remainder of the unit as well.

I really wish there was a 'reinforcement relay' or some kind of wargear that basically allowed you to make RP for models that failed morale. Effectively the AI senses the depleted unit and Tp's in those missing models as it debugs them, or assigns a piecemail replacement and puts the cowards into another squad after it fixes their programing.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/10/31 19:24:15

Post by: torblind

The RP mechanic definitely needs some rethinking. It's been pointed out before, it's at its strongest when the unit has only one model left (the most RP dice being rolled), and on the same time at its weakest, since its only one model away from being wiped and having zero RP dice rolled

Reply by: Klowny - click to view full reply 

98911

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/01 01:54:21

Post by: Klowny

Make it able to be rolled at the start of each players turn is a very easy way to make it significantly stronger, and give some dynasty a way to give it super buffs and we will be competitive again imo

Reply by: Pyrothem - click to view full reply 

106140

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/01 05:31:37

Post by: Pyrothem

Having one model left sucks more than you think. You have to setup rezed models within 1 inch of that last model so only 5 or 6 max can use RP and if you are in melee you are really sad as they can not setup within 1 of an enemy as well...

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/01 08:33:35

Post by: sieGermans

For an upcoming tournament. Rules effectively prohibit Large Gauss Pylon (wound count is too high) and only allow one outrider/spearhead/vanguard in the list:

Spoiler:

++ Patrol Detachment (Necrons) [38 PL, 750pts] ++

+ HQ +

Catacomb Command Barge [10 PL, 169pts]: Gauss Cannon, Warscythe

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Elites +

C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer [12 PL, 230pts]: Power of the C'tan: Antimatter Meteor

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 181pts]: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [56 PL, 1248pts] ++

+ HQ +

(FW) Toholk the Blinded [8 PL, 165pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Tomb Blades [15 PL, 417pts]
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster

+ Heavy Support +

(FW) Tesseract Ark [13 PL, 260pts]
. Two Gauss Cannons: 2x Gauss Cannon

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

++ Total: [94 PL, 1998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Thoughts? Comments?

Reply by: Cmdr_Sune - click to view full reply 

111664

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/01 08:57:25

Post by: Cmdr_Sune

I don't think GW will make any changes to RP since it's very easy to sqew it in both directions.

Other ways to help RP is to improve resilience with dynasty traits such as "-1 to hit" or "always in cover". A general +1 save for all infantry models would be, yes please.

It's also likely that the Solar staff will be back as an artefact and that should give somekind of penalty to hit.

Stratagems will also be able to help out. Perhaps a variant of the Insane bravery stratagem (auto pass morale) that only costs 1CP would be fitting for Necrons.

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/01 10:36:48

Post by: skoffs

sieGermans wrote:
For an upcoming tournament. Rules effectively prohibit Large Gauss Pylon (wound count is too high) and only allow one outrider/spearhead/vanguard in the list:

Spoiler:

++ Patrol Detachment (Necrons) [38 PL, 750pts] ++

+ HQ +

Catacomb Command Barge [10 PL, 169pts]: Gauss Cannon, Warscythe

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Elites +

C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer [12 PL, 230pts]: Power of the C'tan: Antimatter Meteor

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 181pts]: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [56 PL, 1248pts] ++

+ HQ +

(FW) Toholk the Blinded [8 PL, 165pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Tomb Blades [15 PL, 417pts]
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster

+ Heavy Support +

(FW) Tesseract Ark [13 PL, 260pts]
. Two Gauss Cannons: 2x Gauss Cannon

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

++ Total: [94 PL, 1998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Thoughts? Comments?

I don't understand,
Why the Patrol?
Seems like you could fit all of that into the Outrider

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/01 11:32:08

Post by: torblind

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
I don't think GW will make any changes to RP since it's very easy to sqew it in both directions.

Other ways to help RP is to improve resilience with dynasty traits such as "-1 to hit" or "always in cover". A general +1 save for all infantry models would be, yes please.

It's also likely that the Solar staff will be back as an artefact and that should give somekind of penalty to hit.

Stratagems will also be able to help out. Perhaps a variant of the Insane bravery stratagem (auto pass morale) that only costs 1CP would be fitting for Necrons.

Well, a right move would be to make wiping a unit less critical, because at the root of the problem, at near-wiped the unit's RP is either super powerful or completely worthless once the last model falls.

Some sort of recovery after a unit is wiped for example, would make opponents less set on wiping the unit, allowing the value of RP to be more consistent. And perhaps penalizing RP when model count gets low, to balance things out. or point adjust, just smooth out the RP value which rests on a peak essentially, either gamechanging or worthless as the game is currently being played.

Reply by: Zaqir - click to view full reply 

117033

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/01 13:45:14

Post by: Zaqir

Requizen wrote:
Everything with RP needs to go down in points. They really overcosted RP, as if "shoot a single unit to death at a time" was a difficult counter that no enemy would ever figure out.

Vehicles are mostly fine, maybe could come down a smidge but mostly I think they just need to fudge some of the rules a bit.

I agree they value RP way too high, models with more attacks or hard hitting weapons are far cheaper but they value the RP chance at a cost way to high.

1)As you said people know how to counter RP.
2)A cheaper model in other units that is able to bring better firepower, either in terms of str, ap or dmg is undercosted even though it has an actual "in battle effect"
RP is an out of battle effect of sorts, as it can be countered and doesn't technically make the model kill more or survive more per say.

So would you pay +4 pts to kill an enemy easier or +4pts to perhaps maybe get a model or 2 back?
Or An Eldar with 3 T vs a necron vs 4...is the 4t really worth extra costs when most weapons (lets just say str 4) don't really equal out. In that the points paid for the model/cost to bring them down etc just don't equal out.

As people get more experienced the RP rolls are less and less and less, while cheaper models with more shots, more ap etc are valued more and more.

The thing with Necrons on a whole are how easily countered our bonus's are.
A monolith can repair..ok fine, it doesn't help it from killing more or taking less wounds, so you are paying for something that easily requires luck to come into play.
Compare to a Wave Serpent. A power to reduce the dmg by one EVERY SHOT is far more effective then just healing a wound next turn yet the healing variable costs more.

The point I am rambling on about is. The effective costs, A necron player paying 240 pts for 20 warriors that "maybe" can comeback brings a force that isn't the same as someone bringing maybe 30-40 Guardians with superior firepower for less cost etc.

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/01 16:50:57

Post by: sieGermans

 skoffs wrote:

sieGermans wrote:
For an upcoming tournament. Rules effectively prohibit Large Gauss Pylon (wound count is too high) and only allow one outrider/spearhead/vanguard in the list:

Spoiler:

++ Patrol Detachment (Necrons) [38 PL, 750pts] ++

+ HQ +

Catacomb Command Barge [10 PL, 169pts]: Gauss Cannon, Warscythe

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Elites +

C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer [12 PL, 230pts]: Power of the C'tan: Antimatter Meteor

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 181pts]: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [56 PL, 1248pts] ++

+ HQ +

(FW) Toholk the Blinded [8 PL, 165pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Tomb Blades [15 PL, 417pts]
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster

+ Heavy Support +

(FW) Tesseract Ark [13 PL, 260pts]
. Two Gauss Cannons: 2x Gauss Cannon

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

++ Total: [94 PL, 1998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Thoughts? Comments?

I don't understand,
Why the Patrol?
Seems like you could fit all of that into the Outrider

Good point. Legacy from a prior revision. Now fixed:

Spoiler:

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [94 PL, 1998pts] ++

+ HQ +

(FW) Toholk the Blinded [8 PL, 165pts]

Catacomb Command Barge [10 PL, 169pts]: Gauss Cannon, Warscythe

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Elites +

C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer [12 PL, 230pts]: Power of the C'tan: Antimatter Meteor

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 181pts]: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

+ Fast Attack +

Tomb Blades [15 PL, 417pts]
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster

+ Heavy Support +

(FW) Tesseract Ark [13 PL, 260pts]
. Two Gauss Cannons: 2x Gauss Cannon

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

++ Total: [94 PL, 1998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Reply by: Pyrothem - click to view full reply 

106140

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/01 21:17:28

Post by: Pyrothem

If it were me I would take out the Nightbringer. He is the only melee in the army and will be shot to peices before he gets into combat. I would replace him with a ton of scarabs to screen and slow down your foe. Keeping your back field clear of drops that could melt your heavy slots is easy with a yon of well placed scarabs.

Reply by: ArtyomTrityak - click to view full reply 

103826

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/01 21:33:00

Post by: ArtyomTrityak

For my last 2 games i feel that Stalkers are doing better than DDA. I have 2 of them and thinking about 3rd one.

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/01 21:43:32

Post by: sieGermans

Pyrothem wrote:If it were me I would take out the Nightbringer. He is the only melee in the army and will be shot to peices before he gets into combat. I would replace him with a ton of scarabs to screen and slow down your foe. Keeping your back field clear of drops that could melt your heavy slots is easy with a yon of well placed scarabs.

Good call. I’ll make that swap. Forgot about drop Melta plans.

ArtyomTrityak wrote:For my last 2 games i feel that Stalkers are doing better than DDA. I have 2 of them and thinking about 3rd one.

I may consider this for another event. At this time I only have the one stalker.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Necrons) [94 PL, 2000pts] ++

+ HQ +

(FW) Toholk the Blinded [8 PL, 165pts]

Catacomb Command Barge [10 PL, 162pts]: Tesla Cannon, Warscythe

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [4 PL, 85pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal

Immortals [4 PL, 85pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal

+ Elites +

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 181pts]: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 65pts]: 5x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Tomb Blades [15 PL, 421pts]
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster

+ Heavy Support +

(FW) Tesseract Ark [13 PL, 260pts]
. Two Gauss Cannons: 2x Gauss Cannon

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

++ Total: [94 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Reply by: Fenris-77 - click to view full reply 

1547

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/01 23:08:06

Post by: Fenris-77

Pyrothem wrote:
Having one model left sucks more than you think. You have to setup rezed models within 1 inch of that last model so only 5 or 6 max can use RP and if you are in melee you are really sad as they can not setup within 1 of an enemy as well...

You can get 12 bases w/in 1" no problem. Enemy models are obviously still an issue, but you;re not limited to 5-6 at all. If you had a squad of 20 that got tapped down to 1 you're looking at about 12 dudes on average on a 3+, so it seems alright until you start re-rolling with a Ghost Ark and then having nowhere to put dudes.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/02 07:13:53

Post by: torblind

 Fenris-77 wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:
Having one model left sucks more than you think. You have to setup rezed models within 1 inch of that last model so only 5 or 6 max can use RP and if you are in melee you are really sad as they can not setup within 1 of an enemy as well...

You can get 12 bases w/in 1" no problem. Enemy models are obviously still an issue, but you;re not limited to 5-6 at all. If you had a squad of 20 that got tapped down to 1 you're looking at about 12 dudes on average on a 3+, so it seems alright until you start re-rolling with a Ghost Ark and then having nowhere to put dudes.

3+?

Reply by: JohnnyRotten - click to view full reply 

113304

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/04 09:00:24

Post by: JohnnyRotten

Hi guys,

As a T'au player, I would like to ask you on your thoughts how to expand a starting Necron army. I was reading the last 10 pages of the board and the discussion was rather specific and too expertised for a beginner like me. So I apologize in case of redundancy.

So far I got the SC box, 1 x Warrior box, 2 x Immortal boxes and a box of lychguard / praetorians. So basically:

1 x Overlord
20 x Warriors
10 x Immortals
5 x Lychguard/Praets (unboxed)
1 x Stalker
+ a few scarabs


I would like to plan a well rounded army and I was thinking of adding a few vehicles. I am very confident about adding a cryptek. But regarding the other choices, the following questions came up:


- Would you recommend 1-2 DDA or rather 2 x AB's for expansion?

- Are Tesla Immortals (in general) preferable over Gauss ?

- Would you rather go with Lychguard or Praets for a well rounded core?

-Are there any other general advices for what to get from here?



Thanks guys, I really appreciate your input and you would really help a new Cron player out.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/04 10:32:26

Post by: torblind

Welcome, fellow weak Index player!

Vehicles:

1st choice: Tesseract Arks
2nd choice: Doomsday Arks

Where you are at, I'd get DDA before Annihilation Barges

Other:

Scarabs! 12-15 bases would be an ok start. (Unfortunately they are only sold as part of the warriors kit)

Lychguard or praetorians.. I'm not sure, they are both challenging to play their points worth. Im inclined to say Praetoirans because the lychguard are more often than not too slow.

I havent fielded tomb blades yet, but aparently they rock even if they are expensive.

For immortals tesla is great if you have "My Will Be Done" to give them (ie one or more overlords), which cause Tesla to trigger on 5+ which is absolutely awesome!

Gauss immortals have to get within 12" to be competitive, which is risky business.

Note - if "-1 to hit" becomes more common, the value of tesla immortals will diminish.

Reply by: ArtyomTrityak - click to view full reply 

103826

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/04 15:24:03

Post by: ArtyomTrityak

If you want to be competitive you need FW Gauss Pylon. This is the only way to kill Big Guys (Magnus, Morty, Knight etc).

1. FW Gauss Pylon is awesome but some tournaments ban FW

2. Tesla Immortals are good
3. DDA - good but just 1d3 shots
4. Stalkers - good but can't fly so if get charged looses firepower
5. Scarabs - good but you easily give Kill points
6. Wraiths - good unless your opponent has smite spam
7. Heavy Destroyers - good but can be easily killed and very expensive

8. Warriors - average - they are very slow and very morale affected
9. Anni Barge - average - they have good speed but shooting is sucks, heavy 2 hits on 4+ + 8 tesla AP0
10. Flayed ones - average. Too expensive, need to get 9' charge after deep strike

11. Lychguard / Pretorians - bad - them come to fight and die next turn by shooting
12. Monolith - bad - does not worth its points because lacks Quantum Shielding
13. Flyers - bad. Can't score, bad to hit, average damage.

Reply by: Odrankt - click to view full reply 

110781

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/04 19:42:51

Post by: Odrankt

Hey all,

Attending Blood&Glory 2017. 3 out of 5 games done.

Had a good day today. Won 2 games lost 1.

1st game agaisnt Eldar/Dark Eldar - Guy was not that experienced, helped him with his Stratagems and what not. Won by scoring 7 vs 6.

2nd game was Craftworld, took out my unit of Tomb Blades and Tesseract Ark turn 1 via 3 wave serpants and 10 units of 9 Rangers. Was a good game tbf, opponent was nice but match up was terrible.

3rd game was Vs NECRONS. His Sautekh Dynasty was going rouge so I had my Nihilikh teach him a lesson. He brought a Gauss Pylon but because all our Vehicles have Quantum Shielding it was a waste of points. It dropped turn 2 and I popped it turn 2 via focus fire from Triarch Stalker, 2 DDAs, Tesseract Ark and Deathmark.

Tomorrow I face Eldar again ( Literally WTF) hope it doesn't go like game 2...

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/04 20:01:22

Post by: sieGermans

 Odrankt wrote:
Hey all,

Attending Blood&Glory 2017. 3 out of 5 games done.

Had a good day today. Won 2 games lost 1.

1st game agaisnt Eldar/Dark Eldar - Guy was not that experienced, helped him with his Stratagems and what not. Won by scoring 7 vs 6.

2nd game was Craftworld, took out my unit of Tomb Blades and Tesseract Ark turn 1 via 3 wave serpants and 10 units of 9 Rangers. Was a good game tbf, opponent was nice but match up was terrible.

3rd game was Vs NECRONS. His Sautekh Dynasty was going rouge so I had my Nihilikh teach him a lesson. He brought a Gauss Pylon but because all our Vehicles have Quantum Shielding it was a waste of points. It dropped turn 2 and I popped it turn 2 via focus fire from Triarch Stalker, 2 DDAs, Tesseract Ark and Deathmark.

Tomorrow I face Eldar again ( Literally WTF) hope it doesn't go like game 2...

Good luck!

Reply by: Klowny - click to view full reply 

98911

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/05 15:06:14

Post by: Klowny

I had tournament practice today, my list is sooo much fun to play.

I went up against GK, and let me say, 12 wraiths are hilariously tanky. He had full smite spam, albeit baby smite, but that combined with force weapons and thunder hammers meant he had a high proportion of things designed to kill wraiths, and they lasted the entire game!

They are super fast, super durable and look the business on the board. I lost on points, but had it ended a turn earlier I would have won.

Someone mentioned that you need the pylon to be competitive, I disagree. It is a massive points sink for D6 shots, and if they whiff.........

I am not running it, and sure if I go against the bash brothers etc then it wont be good for me, but even the pylon doesn't do well against that.

Reply by: Slayer-Fan123 - click to view full reply 

90435

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/05 16:18:17

Post by: Slayer-Fan123

Being durable against GK smite spam shouldn't be a measure of durability.

Reply by: RedDeadNine - click to view full reply 

117218

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/05 16:43:48

Post by: RedDeadNine

 Klowny wrote:
I had tournament practice today, my list is sooo much fun to play.

I'm curious. Can you share your list ? I have tons of Wraith too but haven't dare use them yet in large numbers in 8th.

Reply by: Klowny - click to view full reply 

98911

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/05 16:59:00

Post by: Klowny

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Being durable against GK smite spam shouldn't be a measure of durability.

No but i also faced 2 stormravens, a dreadknight, falchions, thunderhammers etc. The list had a plethora of multi damage weapons, this coupled with smite meant it was a hard counter to wraiths, and they still stood up to the punishment.

Ive ran 6 against 8 LRBC and the same thing again. They are a very durable unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RedDeadNine wrote:

 Klowny wrote:
I had tournament practice today, my list is sooo much fun to play.

I'm curious. Can you share your list ? I have tons of Wraith too but haven't dare use them yet in large numbers in 8th.

1x overlord w/ warscythe
10x tesla immortals
6x wraiths
6x wraiths
Nightbringer
Deceiver
9x tomb blades w/ gauss, 5 vanes, 5 looms
1x DDA
1x TA
1x Stalker

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/05 17:08:51

Post by: torblind

No scarabs? What about backfield teleportation, isn't that what GK does?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Otherwise - awesome list!

Reply by: Slayer-Fan123 - click to view full reply 

90435

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/05 18:31:13

Post by: Slayer-Fan123

The use of both CTan is pretty ballsy I'll give you that.

Reply by: Klowny - click to view full reply 

98911

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/06 02:06:35

Post by: Klowny

Yep no Scarabs and no pylon, still goes really well! So we played Dawn of War so I didn’t really have a backfield, but even if I did, 12 wraiths, 9 Tomb blades and 10 Immortals can easily deny the same footprint as scarabs, as you don’t actually need a whole bunch. The deceivers redeploy is just too nice to give up, and now I have flexibility in my army to choose what goes where. For example I can get Tomb blades in RF range t1, or deploy Tesla Immortals and o/lord in cover midfield, or minimum 1 star up the board, and if I roll a 3 I get both c’tanstars in cover for a t2 charge

I also make the NightBringer my warlord and give him the 6+ fnp or 1+1 attack on the charge.

Also the double smite/times arrow is very nice to have.

Funny side note, in that battle one of the last units I had on the board was my DDA, and in one round of overwatch it killed a banner, draigo and a dreadknight! Such a beast!!!

Reply by: Cmdr_Sune - click to view full reply 

111664

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/06 10:45:38

Post by: Cmdr_Sune

I participated in a 5 game 4 person team tournament this weekend. There were 21 teams in total.
Lots of fun together with great people (and no kids).

1500 points
Comp: One detachment, Highlander, no FW, no unique models (so no Deceiver or Nightbringer)

My list:

Spoiler:

CCB, ws, gauss, res orb
10 Immortals, tesla
8 Deathmarks
5 Scarabs
6 Tomb blades tesla, vanes, nebuloscopes
6 Destroyers incl 1 HW
DDA

Game 1:

Spoiler:

Relic mission against Astra Militarum.
He got:
Tank commander
Scions
Special weapon squad
Veterans
Hellhound
Rough riders
Basilisk
Heavy weapons squad with autocannons
Leman russ
Demolisher
Valkyrie flyer

I won.
Immortals with the help of Deathmarks grabbed the relic and ran.
DDA was a champ and destroyed 2 tanks. I had a lot of luck and it fired 3 shots every turn. When it does, it's amazing, -5 AP is gold! Let's see what the codex brings.
Tomb blades killed infantry units.
Destroyers took down flyer to 1 wound, finished of a tank and were heavily focused on. Res orb worked like a charm. MWBD on a Destroyer unit is really good.
Scarabs locked down Hellhound.

All my units were great. No real MVP. Had some lucky dice rolls.

Game 2:

Spoiler:

Against Dark Angels.
Mission was take and hold cards give an additional point.

His army:
Librarian with aversion and mindworm
Land raider
Land raider crusader
10 devastators
Darkshroud
Nephalim jetfighter
Ravenwing darktalon

Really frustrating list. I constantly had -1 to -3 to hit. Minus to hit shouldn't stack!
I locked down his landraiders with Scarabs and Destroyers.
Destroyers downed one flyer. Once again the Destroyers got focused on heavily but survived thanks to res orb.
Tomb blades took out Devastators.
Deathmarks acted as a distraction and deep struck into cover in the middle of his lines. They and Immortals took some impressive amounts of firepower.
DDA died on turn 1 as he got to start.
All units performed great.

Managed to score a draw thanks to locking up the Land raiders.

Game 3:

Spoiler:

Against Genestealer cult.
Patriarch
2 big units of Genestealers.
1 big unit of Aberants
Some other infantry.
Leman russ
2 sentinels
Some other stuff.

Mission was that at the end of the game 1 objective was worth 4p, 1 obj 1p and 4 obj 2p. Deployment was hammer and anvil.
I started and castled up everything in the middle of my deployment zone. Put som damage on his Russ.
When his cult ambush reinforcements came in he rolled really poorly.
Next turn my Immortals, Tomb blades and Deathmarks removed over half of his army. I felt bad for him.
I won.

Game 4:

Spoiler:

Against Raven guard with a couple of captains, plasma Stern guard in pod. hellblasters, missile launcher devastators, predator, assback, dreadnought and some scouts.
Mission was that objectives gave VP at the end of game.
Deployment was the one with the 12" circle in the middle.
His side was planed bowling ball and I was cocky.
His plasma and Devastators blasted me to pieces.
I had to fall back and play defensively on my side of the board where there were some lineblockers.
He played very good and I did many mistakes. This was a very bad matchup.
I lost.

Game 5:

Spoiler:

Against Deathguard with Predator, Land raider, their artillery tank, some traitor marines, some pox walkers, some demons and a flying demon prince.

Deathguard is really slow and I managed to kill the Land raider, lock up his other tanks and have board control.
I had to shoot at the demon prince for three turns with the Destroyers, one turn with Deathmarks, one turn with Immortals and one turn with the DDA before he died. It was horrible.
That and my horrible tactical cards cost me the victory and it was a draw.

How my units performed:

Spoiler:

When I write good, very good, etc. it's in reference to other Necron units. Many of these are not very good when comparing with units in other factions.

CCB - Good. Buffed the Destroyers, grabbed objectives, counter charges. Performed well and only died in one game. A bit expensive with res orb.
Immortals, tesla - Very good. Only gave them MWBD once.
Deathmarks - Good. Their damage output is pretty underwhelming, but they are good as a distraction. I usually dropped close to the opponent to draw some fire. In cover they are really hard to remove. They also did a lot of objective-conga.
Scarabs - Very good. The mostly screened from deep strikers, locked vehicles and congalined objectives.
Tomb blades, tesla - Very good. They smoked infantry and locked up tanks as champs. I haven't tried gauss on them, but the tesla gave them range and a lot of dice. 14" move is not that much. I can imagine that a unit of 9 is awesome.
Destroyers - Very good. They can survive a lot of punishment and worked well together with the CCB. I don't think they missed a shot with MWBD (unless they had minus to hit). Res orb is very good if you run these. Range is a bit lacking.
Doomsday Ark - Very good in this tournament. I had some really good dice rolls so the big gun shot three shots a lot. This makes a huge difference. It also flew around a bit and grabbed objectives and used its gauss flayers.

Best unit?
Immortals, Tomb blades and Destroyers where better than the rest, but they all did their part.

Would I change anything?
I might replace the Deathmarks with Wraiths.

Closing thoughts:

Spoiler:

So I won two games, had two draws and lost one. It was more than I expected so I'm very happy with that.

This army is designet for tables with lots of terrain. Some tables had a lot of terrain and some where lacking and that made a difference in those games.
I was suprised how well the army performed against high T targets with just the Destroyers and Doomsday Ark. Perhaps I rolled like a god?
The lack of range on Necron weapons really shows in some deployment types and if there are less terrain.
Fast units with "fly" is really good.
Many armies have problems with 3+ infantry in cover. Especially if the said infantry has RP.
5+ RP is very unreliable.

I only faced very nice players and the tournament arrangement was excellent!

Reply by: ArtyomTrityak - click to view full reply 

103826

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/07 19:53:44

Post by: ArtyomTrityak

Thanks for nice report.

I've never tried Tesla Tomb Blades, will try.
I prefer Heavy Destroyers instead of Destroyers due to longer range and strength

Reply by: Cmdr_Sune - click to view full reply 

111664

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/08 08:06:28

Post by: Cmdr_Sune

It was the first time I used a large unit of Destroyers and they really surprised me. With the CCB giving MWBD they practically always hit and cripple a vehicle. The range did come to play especially on a table with low amount of terrain.
They where very hard to remove and when they were almost wiped out I used the res orb. 3 Heavy Destroyers die much easier.

As for the Tesla Tomb blades, they wiped out all kinds of infantry and even put some wounds on vehicles. Haven't tried them with gauss, but I think I prefer the range and hits of tesla over the ap of gauss.
Looking at the math gauss is only better at <12" and against targets with 3+ (25% better) and 2+ (50% better). This is a bit too situational and somewhat offset by nebuloscopes.
However, there are some armies that have -1 to hit and then tesla sucks.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/08 08:29:16

Post by: torblind

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
It was the first time I used a large unit of Destroyers and they really surprised me. With the CCB giving MWBD they practically always hit and cripple a vehicle. The range did come to play especially on a table with low amount of terrain.
They where very hard to remove and when they were almost wiped out I used the res orb. 3 Heavy Destroyers die much easier.

As for the Tesla Tomb blades, they wiped out all kinds of infantry and even put some wounds on vehicles. Haven't tried them with gauss, but I think I prefer the range and hits of tesla over the ap of gauss.
Looking at the math gauss is only better at <12" and against targets with 3+ (25% better) and 2+ (50% better). This is a bit too situational and somewhat offset by nebuloscopes.
However, there are some armies that have -1 to hit and then tesla sucks.

With Tesla:
36 shots BS3+ = 36 hits Wound on 3+ = 24 wounds Armor 3+ = 8 unsaved Armor 2+ = 4 unsaved

With Gauss:
36 shots BS3+ = 24 hits Wound on 3+ = 16 wounds Armor 3+to5+ = 10.67 unsaved Amor 2+to4+ = 8 unsaved

According to this there is a 33% increase on 3+ and 100% increase on 2+

Since they are the same strength, the wound probability is the same so the damage ratio between them is the same for all toughnesses.

(You could also punch the unit stats into dice-hammer.com to get the same results for all armor saves and toughnesses at the same time)

Reply by: Cmdr_Sune - click to view full reply 

111664

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/08 10:41:31

Post by: Cmdr_Sune

Torblind you are absolutely correct. Terrible math from my part. Gauss at <12" is also about 10% better against 4+.

I guess it all depends on what ranges you think you engage your enemy and ... I guess I have to try out gauss.

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/08 10:50:10

Post by: sieGermans

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
Torblind you are absolutely correct. Terrible math from my part. Gauss at <12" is also about 10% better against 4+.

I guess it all depends on what ranges you think you engage your enemy and ... I guess I have to try out gauss.

Tesla/Gauss range considerations are different for Tomb Blades than Immortals, given their mobility.

However, also consider that CC armies will be more likely to fall within the 12” of your Immortals than ranged ones. So consider your expected Meta!

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/08 12:53:00

Post by: skoffs

Rule of thumb is typically:
Tesla on Immortals (because they're slow so will probably stay further away).
Gauss on Tomb Blades (because they can quickly get up into rapid fire range).

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/08 12:57:06

Post by: torblind

..and also consider the risk that the Tomb Blades may get charged (and take additional losses) if they end up too close

Reply by: Requizen - click to view full reply 

89474

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/08 15:24:53

Post by: Requizen

It's a risk, but T5 3+ isn't anything to sneeze at unless you're rushing up to Berserkers or Genestealers.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/08 15:27:40

Post by: torblind

Requizen wrote:
It's a risk, but T5 3+ isn't anything to sneeze at unless you're rushing up to Berserkers or Genestealers.

That is true. 36 shots in overwatch shouldn't be taken lightly either (though they would probably be withered down in shooting if he meant to charge them also)

Reply by: Cmdr_Sune - click to view full reply 

111664

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/08 17:19:40

Post by: Cmdr_Sune

If just MWBD and res orb could be used on Tomb blades...

Please Mr codex writer make it so and while you're at it lower their cost.

Res orb is actually good on a large unit of Destroyers so I can imagine it would also be good on 9 Tomb blades.

Reply by: epaemil - click to view full reply 

117401

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/08 19:18:05

Post by: epaemil

Am going to get some heavy support vehicles, which ones though? I have one Triarch Stalker but what else would be good? DDA or Tesseract Ark? Or just another Stalker?

Reply by: Cmdr_Sune - click to view full reply 

111664

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/08 19:38:01

Post by: Cmdr_Sune

The Tesseract Ark is supposedly really good. I don't have one myself because we usually don't use FW stuff.

The Stalker and DDA are ok.

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/08 22:36:54

Post by: sieGermans

Tesseract Ark is excellent.
DDAs are decent. Arguable comparison between them and equal point value number of Heavy Destroyers.
Stalkers are fantastic as a singleton to buff your army, with diminishing returns thereafter.

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/08 22:56:23

Post by: sieGermans

Updated the previous list based on available models (I was short on Tomb Blades):

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Necrons) [96 PL, 1996pts] ++

+ HQ +

(FW) Toholk the Blinded [8 PL, 165pts]

Catacomb Command Barge [10 PL, 162pts]: Tesla Cannon, Warscythe

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [4 PL, 85pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal

Immortals [4 PL, 85pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal

+ Elites +

Deathmarks [5 PL, 100pts]: 5x Deathmark

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 181pts]: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs [6 PL, 91pts]: 7x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Tomb Blades [10 PL, 291pts]
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom, Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster

+ Heavy Support +

(FW) Tesseract Ark [13 PL, 260pts]
. Two Gauss Cannons: 2x Gauss Cannon

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

++ Total: [96 PL, 1996pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Played a test game against a foot slogging, non-Mortarian build Deathguard list.

4 plague marine squads
1 pox walker squad (max size)
1 cultist squad (max)
1 terminator squad (deployed in reserve)
Various characters
4 nurglings

Mission rolled for 4 objectives worth 3 pts. each at the end of the game. I win first turn.

Turn 1:
My entire army bar Tesla Immortals target one plague marine squad for FB.
The Tesla Immortals wipe a second squad on their own.

Thoughts: My god DDAs feel underwhelming against non vehicle targets.

He deep strikes his terminators into midfield (I counter deep strike my Deathmarks. [This was a mistake on my part,though not a grave one]
He targets half his force on the Tomb blades and wipes them. Second half goes for the Gauss immortal squads and takes each down by half (he expected better plasma outcomes and didn’t want to waste a possible lottery result from his rapid fire range from other squads).

Turn 2:
I’m playing defensively trying to screen weakened and valuable targets. I “waste” all my heavy shooting on his terminators, resulting in only one successful wound. Invulns and FNP are tough to crack!

His turn is great with a charge wipe on my Deathmarks and his nurglings bogging down my tesla Immortals for the turn. He does light damage to my stalker (2) and finishes off one of my Gauss squads.

Turn 3:
I fall back with Tesla Immortals and focus on getting what’s left of my Gauss into range of Toholk (this is rewarded next turn with 4s to reanimate!). Again my heavy fire concentrated on his terminators is ineffective.

His turn is strong on possible points, but one turn too soon: he moves his cultists forward to grab an objective and falls back with nurglings and charges my scarab screen of my Tesla Immortals with his poxwalkers.

Turn 4:
DDAs turn into gun ships and simply delete his cultists, taking the objective. Tesla Immortals delete the poxwalkers after scarabs fall back. T. Ark uses its flamer on the terminators and kills 2. Finally.

His response is largely ineffective as all he has left are one squad of marines in the backfield, his terminators (at half strength) and random buff bots.

We shake hands.

Close game with tons of learnings on my side.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/08 23:27:57

Post by: torblind

Sweet victory when it finally presented itself.

Should you have held back more?

Reply by: Cmdr_Sune - click to view full reply 

111664

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/09 08:06:50

Post by: Cmdr_Sune

Good game.

I agree that invul and FnP on Deathguard is a pain. They are however very slow and unless supported by characters their infantry are not so good in CC.

The only thing I'm worried about are deep striking units (only terminators?) and flying characters. Haven't played against Mortarion, but nurgle Demon princes are pretty tough.

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/09 13:44:40

Post by: sieGermans

torblind wrote:
Sweet victory when it finally presented itself.

Should you have held back more?

I overvalued the free round of shooting from the Deathmarks, as I failed to remember that Disgusting Resilience May be rolled against Mortal Wounds. As a result of my reactive deepstrike, the Deathmarks were left just chillin’ near midfield with only a Gauss immortal line screening them. They would have been more valuable deep striking later in his back field to threaten an objective and possibly focus fire on a weaker character.

Tomb Blades could have been held back for a later power move, but I suspect that their damage soak and role in wiping one of the two marine squads on T1 was worth it strategically; though expensive tactically.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/09 13:51:13

Post by: torblind

sieGermans wrote:

torblind wrote:
Sweet victory when it finally presented itself.

Should you have held back more?

I overvalued the free round of shooting from the Deathmarks, as I failed to remember that Disgusting Resilience May be rolled against Mortal Wounds. As a result of my reactive deepstrike, the Deathmarks were left just chillin’ near midfield with only a Gauss immortal line screening them. They would have been more valuable deep striking later in his back field to threaten an objective and possibly focus fire on a weaker character.

Tomb Blades could have been held back for a later power move, but I suspect that their damage soak and role in wiping one of the two marine squads on T1 was worth it strategically; though expensive tactically.

Yeah I struggle with deciding the right tactics for pushing forward the tomb blades. When should they make a move and against what type of targets, and how should you move about to get to that situation.

No use rushing them up against a gun line to decimate some infantry unit, if they only get shot to smitheries next turn.

Reply by: Klowny - click to view full reply 

98911

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/09 16:25:14

Post by: Klowny

Yep you have to play conservatively with them, to get the most out of the points. Especially against space marine armies, the -2 AP really helps clearing them out. They cannot survive massed shots that well, although the T5 does help against all that S4 out there.

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/10 02:36:51

Post by: skoffs

If possible, always try to keep one Tomb Blade in the unit out of line of sight to enemy shooters. Anything you can to ensure you have someone survive until your next turn so you have a chance to revive your extremely expensive bike guys.

Reply by: JNAProductions - click to view full reply 

106383

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/10 03:27:41

Post by: JNAProductions

 skoffs wrote:
If possible, always try to keep one Tomb Blade in the unit out of line of sight to enemy shooters. Anything you can to ensure you have someone survive until your next turn so you have a chance to revive your extremely expensive bike guys.

Doesn't work. If you can see one guy, you can kill his whole squad.

Reply by: Slayer-Fan123 - click to view full reply 

90435

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/10 03:30:39

Post by: Slayer-Fan123

 Klowny wrote:
Yep you have to play conservatively with them, to get the most out of the points. Especially against space marine armies, the -2 AP really helps clearing them out. They cannot survive massed shots that well, although the T5 does help against all that S4 out there.

Marines aren't the issue though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sieGermans wrote:
Tesseract Ark is excellent.
DDAs are decent. Arguable comparison between them and equal point value number of Heavy Destroyers.
Stalkers are fantastic as a singleton to buff your army, with diminishing returns thereafter.

One thing to remember is that, with the codex, a price cut is basically guaranteed for the DDA. The question is how big of a price cut will happen.

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/10 06:22:42

Post by: skoffs

I'd assume we won't have to wait that long for a price cut,
It'll probably happen next month with the index update.

Reply by: Pyrothem - click to view full reply 

106140

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/10 08:07:31

Post by: Pyrothem

I am holding off on all new Necron purchases till the Codex. The Nid Codex fills me with joy and hope, so many different and competitive ways to build Nids is in my opinion one of the greatest accomplishments of 8th.

Lets hope the people doing our Necron Codex puts that kind of love into them.

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/10 14:36:53

Post by: skoffs

Pyrothem wrote:
I am holding off on all new Necron purchases till the Codex.

I mean, that's fair and all, just be prepared for a pretty long wait.
(we're assumed to be one of the last)

Reply by: Maelstrom808 - click to view full reply 

25580

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/10 15:08:29

Post by: Maelstrom808

Not like we have much of a choice in a lot of cases. Between "temporarily unavailable" and "no longer available" kits, the pickings are getting slim.

Reply by: Requizen - click to view full reply 

89474

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/10 15:37:34

Post by: Requizen

If Chapter Approved doesn't have any worthwhile changes for us, I'm putting my Necrons in storage. Which hurts me, honestly, but we need serious help.

Reply by: ArtyomTrityak - click to view full reply 

103826

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/10 17:16:57

Post by: ArtyomTrityak

Just played small game yesterday vs Marines, we played 1000pts.

He got 2 dreadnoughts, snipers, terminators, tacticals.
I got Stalker, DDA, CCB, 10 immortals and about 20 scarabs.

I went 2d, he didn't have damage output to kill my guys. 1st turn i destroyed 1 dreadnought and half of his tacticals.

He deepstriked terminators and managed to get 9' charge with reroll. In single combat he wiped my Stalker, then i killed some of them in shooting and charged them 12 scarabs.

They were in combat untill the end of the game, slowly killing 1 terminator a turn.

DDA and Tesla Immortals were destroying everything. I won.

I would take another unit of 10xImmortals with gauss because 2+ save is very hard for Tesla.

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/11 06:48:18

Post by: skoffs

Gauss for Tomb Blades (can get into rapid fire faster)
Tesla for Immortals (they're gonna be hanging back anyway)

Reply by: Klowny - click to view full reply 

98911

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/11 07:59:18

Post by: Klowny

There is a case for tesla tomb blades, they become super, super fast then as you can still advance and shoot, although you lose the tesla proc (if they get MWBD in the codex however.......). This gives them a threat range of 14+D6", with 36 S5 shots, nothing to sneeze at. However, as it stands I feel the gauss just shreds better. They are infantry killers, and being fast, 2W T5 3+/5++ with RP they take a while to chew through, and I cannot stop singing their praises lol.

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/11 12:43:28

Post by: sieGermans

So what would be a uniquely meta’ed Necron list versus a stock Guilliman + Assault Cannon list? Like, what actually works for us to counter that effectively while playing for points?

Reply by: Slayer-Fan123 - click to view full reply 

90435

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/11 15:04:30

Post by: Slayer-Fan123

sieGermans wrote:
So what would be a uniquely meta’ed Necron list versus a stock Guilliman + Assault Cannon list? Like, what actually works for us to counter that effectively while playing for points?

I'd say spammed Wraiths and Scarabs. Once those get into contact with the Razorbacks you've won. The question is if they'll survive.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/11 17:54:46

Post by: torblind

Keep a squad of destroyers perhaps, should tempt him to aim his multi wound weapons elsewhere, helping the scarabs stay alive

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/11 23:21:22

Post by: skoffs

Or, you know, just get more Scarabs.
(for the price of a Destroyer unit you could get a TON of Scarabs)

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/12 14:16:18

Post by: sieGermans

Another Test game with the tournament list today; this time versus an Alpha Legion List.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Necrons) [96 PL, 1996pts] ++

+ HQ +

(FW) Toholk the Blinded [8 PL, 165pts]

Catacomb Command Barge [10 PL, 162pts]: Tesla Cannon, Warscythe

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [4 PL, 85pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal

Immortals [4 PL, 85pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal

+ Elites +

Deathmarks [5 PL, 100pts]: 5x Deathmark

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 181pts]: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs [6 PL, 91pts]: 7x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Tomb Blades [10 PL, 291pts]
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom, Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster

+ Heavy Support +

(FW) Tesseract Ark [13 PL, 260pts]
. Two Gauss Cannons: 2x Gauss Cannon

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

++ Total: [96 PL, 1996pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Maelstrom, Standard 3 TacOs (Tactical Objective cards).

His Brigade build consisted of:
3 Demon princes with Slaanesh, Khorne, and Nurgle marks.
3 Khorne Berserkers
1 squad of Terminators
2 squads of obliterators
3? Squads of min cultists
1 terminator lord
(I’m missing some squads here of something, since he had 16 units to deploy)

He wins first turn.

Deployment was vanguard strike, and he used the Alpha Legion command to put his berserkers into infiltrate reserve. These then got placed right on my front lines. (Interesting rule quirk, RAW, it seems Deathmarks can Hunters from hyperspace based on this infiltrate maneuver).

Turn 1:
I HfHed the Deathmarks onto one of his squads of berserkers, and in his movement killed all but 1.
In his shooting, he kills both DDAs, the T. ark, and in CC knocks the squad of Tesla Immortals. He burns through 6 CPs to provide strength, rerolls, and extra shooting for his terminators.
Scores FB, and two TacOs.

On mine, I manage to knock 5 wounds off the Slaanesh marked DP and kill 2 berserkers.
I score 1 point for holding an objective.

Bottom of Turn 1, he has full board control and has all relevant shooting in range with berserkers and DPs in charge range ready to mop up.

We shake hands.

The Alpha strike is real.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/12 18:01:05

Post by: torblind

Wow, makes you wonder what't the point


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Could you have deployed differently? Or done anything?

Reply by: Klowny - click to view full reply 

98911

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/13 01:41:25

Post by: Klowny

Alpha strikes are real, but im kinda confused how he got so close with his termies and got into CC with your immortals T1? You have 7 scarabs, vehicles and deathmarks as screens. Not having a go, just when you see alpha legion zerkers you immediately turtle on deployment as a shooting army.

Reply by: Slayer-Fan123 - click to view full reply 

90435

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/13 01:51:49

Post by: Slayer-Fan123

 Klowny wrote:
Alpha strikes are real, but im kinda confused how he got so close with his termies and got into CC with your immortals T1? You have 7 scarabs, vehicles and deathmarks as screens. Not having a go, just when you see alpha legion zerkers you immediately turtle on deployment as a shooting army.

He might've been lucky on the charge with the Terminators, but Terminators don't suck for firepower this edition, and the Berserker Marines infiltrated instead, which means they still get to move.

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/13 05:56:31

Post by: skoffs

How much longer until chapter approved again?
I know we're all doom and gloom here, but honestly, with the constant losses, unless they can fix things soon, I think I'm gonna be done with Necrons for the foreseeable future.

Reply by: Slayer-Fan123 - click to view full reply 

90435

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/13 06:08:18

Post by: Slayer-Fan123

I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/13 10:06:04

Post by: skoffs

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.

Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.

Reply by: Odrankt - click to view full reply 

110781

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/13 13:45:49

Post by: Odrankt

Imo I would like it if Gauss Weapons were able to ignore invul saves or if they were able to make iInvul save worse e.g. warriors Gauss Flayer would makes Magnus invul go to a 4+ or totally ignored it. Triarch Stalkers w/ THGC would wreck Maggy by forcing him to take 5+-6+ saves.

It's probably a bit broken but when your going up against Eldar with -2 to hit or Horrors getting buffed by a Changling it's hard to put a dent into those armies. Gauss needs to be special again. Standard -1 is nice but useless agaisnt armies we can't hit agaisnt and armies with army-wide invuls.

Allso, the Warscythe needs to be fixed. Im all good with its stats but -4ap isn't nothing against 3+ invuls or any invul at all. Needs to ignore invul as well. Realistically no Necron HQ would go into CC if they knew the odds were agaisnt them. So why give us -4 AP when most Armies have ways to get around that and make us wield a S7 D2 Weapon when we can't take advantage of the AP.

Reply by: D6Damager - click to view full reply 

70436

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/13 14:56:04

Post by: D6Damager

 Odrankt wrote:
Allso, the Warscythe needs to be fixed. Im all good with its stats but -4ap isn't nothing against 3+ invuls or any invul at all. Needs to ignore invul as well. Realistically no Necron HQ would go into CC if they knew the odds were agaisnt them. So why give us -4 AP when most Armies have ways to get around that and make us wield a S7 D2 Weapon when we can't take advantage of the AP.

It's for going up against light vehicles/transports in the game. You wound on 4's or 3's, most vehicles don't have an invul in CC so no save. Just right now the meta isn't spamming light vehicles except for razorbacks and maybe Harlequins or Dark Eldar transports.

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/13 15:26:39

Post by: skoffs

Let's not start on the wishlisting, shall we?
Speculating about what we might be able to do come the Chapter Approved changes is one thing, but
it's probably going to be a long time until we get a codex.

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/13 16:44:35

Post by: sieGermans

torblind wrote:
Wow, makes you wonder what't the point


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Could you have deployed differently? Or done anything?

Aye. I used the scarabs to backfield block deep strikes / infiltrates when I could have used a Gauss immortal squad for that purpose. That would have saved the Tesla Immortals from being first turn wiped, I expect.

The obliterators arrived via deep strike at 9 inches, as did the terminators and terminator lord. Their damage done was due to Shooting, not charging, and due to Vanguard deployment along with the specifics of the LoS in play here, there was no way to safeguard the vehicles from this move.

I’m not complaining, though! It was a good learning experience.

Reply by: Odrankt - click to view full reply 

110781

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/13 16:45:59

Post by: Odrankt

 skoffs wrote:
Let's not start on the wishlisting, shall we?
Speculating about what we might be able to do come the Chapter Approved changes is one thing, but
it's probably going to be a long time until we get a codex.

Not trying to start a wish list Skoffs. Just saying that from playing in a lot of Tournaments lately and going up against Codex armies we just feel stumped at the moment. Nearly everything has a way to make them more survivable. We don't damage our enemies like we should do.I think chapter approved should give us a Statagem to let us RP a unit that was wiped out (in the previous turn) for 2-3CP. Our RP is probably at a weakness at the moment so we need something to make our special rule actually reliable.

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/13 16:47:38

Post by: sieGermans

 Klowny wrote:
Alpha strikes are real, but im kinda confused how he got so close with his termies and got into CC with your immortals T1? You have 7 scarabs, vehicles and deathmarks as screens. Not having a go, just when you see alpha legion zerkers you immediately turtle on deployment as a shooting army.

Aye, the scarabs could have been used to screen the Tesla Immortals.

The Deathmarks pseudo screened by HfH-blocking his initial infiltration plan. This worked well and forced him to deploy farther than he had planned from the DDAs. However, it was not possible to keep them out of 12 on his turn.

Reply by: Slayer-Fan123 - click to view full reply 

90435

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/13 16:52:04

Post by: Slayer-Fan123

 skoffs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.

Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.

I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...

Reply by: Pyrothem - click to view full reply 

106140

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/16 06:13:50

Post by: Pyrothem

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.

Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.

I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...

Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/16 17:21:03

Post by: sieGermans

Pyrothem wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.

Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.

I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...

Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....

You don’t lose all of your units as long as any other portal units are around.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/16 17:46:43

Post by: torblind

sieGermans wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.

Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.

I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...

Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....

You don’t lose all of your units as long as any other portal units are around.

This is true but that's a ridiculous insurance premium

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/16 18:12:57

Post by: sieGermans

Spoiler:

torblind wrote:

sieGermans wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.

Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.

I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...

Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....

You don’t lose all of your units as long as any other portal units are around.

This is true but that's a ridiculous insurance premium

It doesn’t have to be structured that way. 2 transports, 2 sets of troops: 1 dies, the second teleports in the two sets of troops over 2 turns.

Oddly, the more transports you run, the more reliable this becomes.

Reply by: JNAProductions - click to view full reply 

106383

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/16 18:32:16

Post by: JNAProductions

But the transports are kinda overcosted...

Reply by: Requizen - click to view full reply 

89474

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/16 18:45:52

Post by: Requizen

Yeah, you can take 3 Night Scythes with the assumption that they can't all get killed in a single turn (which isn't even true anymore).

What do Night Scythes do after they drop off units, though? It's comparable to an Anni Barge (no QS, but -1 to hit, hard to charge, better save, more wounds), but no one really takes Anni Barges because the gun is awkward.

It's like - not enough shots for true horde clearing, designed with high strength but no AP, it seems to be a gun designed to take out semi-elite, high toughness units with low saves? 8 shots isn't a lot for what you're paying (especially with things like Leman Russ Punishers pumping out 40 shots + sponsons), so... it's just a strange gun, and one that doesn't fit the meta.

To be a "good weapon" in the meta, you have to fit one of these criteria:

1) Very good AP/Strength with multi-damage to drop Termies, Vehicles, Primarchs, etc
2) Insane number of shots to clear Conscripts, Gaunts, Brims, etc.
3) High range and line of sight ignoring to camp backfield where you can't be shot
or
4) Autohitting Flamer types with above-average profiles

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/16 19:39:59

Post by: torblind

sieGermans wrote:

Spoiler:

torblind wrote:

sieGermans wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.

Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.

I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...

Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....

You don’t lose all of your units as long as any other portal units are around.

This is true but that's a ridiculous insurance premium

It doesn’t have to be structured that way. 2 transports, 2 sets of troops: 1 dies, the second teleports in the two sets of troops over 2 turns.

Oddly, the more transports you run, the more reliable this becomes.

Thing is, if they kill the first night scythe turn one, they definitely will kill the second NS turn two, and you loose that tomb world unit

Reply by: Requizen - click to view full reply 

89474

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/16 19:43:17

Post by: Requizen

torblind wrote:

sieGermans wrote:

Spoiler:

torblind wrote:

sieGermans wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.

Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.

I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...

Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....

You don’t lose all of your units as long as any other portal units are around.

This is true but that's a ridiculous insurance premium

It doesn’t have to be structured that way. 2 transports, 2 sets of troops: 1 dies, the second teleports in the two sets of troops over 2 turns.

Oddly, the more transports you run, the more reliable this becomes.

Thing is, if they kill the first night scythe turn one, they definitely will kill the second NS turn two, and you loose that tomb world unit

Yeah, essentially you want 2 Night Scythes per unit, and there's no unit worth that many points in Transport.

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/16 20:12:20

Post by: sieGermans

Requizen wrote:

torblind wrote:

sieGermans wrote:

Spoiler:

torblind wrote:

sieGermans wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.

Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.

I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...

Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....

You don’t lose all of your units as long as any other portal units are around.

This is true but that's a ridiculous insurance premium

It doesn’t have to be structured that way. 2 transports, 2 sets of troops: 1 dies, the second teleports in the two sets of troops over 2 turns.

Oddly, the more transports you run, the more reliable this becomes.

Thing is, if they kill the first night scythe turn one, they definitely will kill the second NS turn two, and you loose that tomb world unit

Yeah, essentially you want 2 Night Scythes per unit, and there's no unit worth that many points in Transport.

I think at 3 NS for 3 unit’s it works out:

Turn 2
1 dies (2 remain)
2 drop units

Turn 3
1 dies (1 remains)
1 drops the last unit

Whereby, shooting the Night Scythes does not prohibit their drop, and therefore, shooting them is not worth it. Accordingly none die.

You are still left with the troubling calculus, however, that their gun is poor (costed fairly, but not useful: see prior comment made by another poster which helps explain) and the timing of the teleport PRIOR to moving is incredibly limiting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I know this will auto append to the prior post, but it is a separate dialogue!

I feel like weapons with Odd strength are a bit worse in this Edition than weapons with Even strength profiles. A weapon with even strength will always be only *just* strong enough to achieve damage-on-2s, while never paying a premium for having a “useless” extra point of strength.

Perhaps the only exception to this is Strength 5, since Toughness 4 is specifically, and particularly prevalent.

Thoughts?

Reply by: Requizen - click to view full reply 

89474

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/16 20:18:38

Post by: Requizen

sieGermans wrote:

Requizen wrote:

torblind wrote:

sieGermans wrote:

Spoiler:

torblind wrote:

sieGermans wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.

Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.

I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...

Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....

You don’t lose all of your units as long as any other portal units are around.

This is true but that's a ridiculous insurance premium

It doesn’t have to be structured that way. 2 transports, 2 sets of troops: 1 dies, the second teleports in the two sets of troops over 2 turns.

Oddly, the more transports you run, the more reliable this becomes.

Thing is, if they kill the first night scythe turn one, they definitely will kill the second NS turn two, and you loose that tomb world unit

Yeah, essentially you want 2 Night Scythes per unit, and there's no unit worth that many points in Transport.

I think at 3 NS for 3 unit’s it works out:

Turn 2
1 dies (2 remain)
2 drop units

Turn 3
1 dies (1 remains)
1 drops the last unit

Whereby, shooting the Night Scythes does not prohibit their drop, and therefore, shooting them is not worth it. Accordingly none die.

You are still left with the troubling calculus, however, that their gun is poor (costed fairly, but not useful: see prior comment made by another poster which helps explain) and the timing of the teleport PRIOR to moving is incredibly limiting.

The issue comes when your opponent goes first and has strong shooting (like Guard, or Guilliman with Razorbacks, etc):

Turn one: One of your Night Scythes die. Two move up.

Turn two: Another Scythe dies. Last one drops and moves. Two units still off the board.

Turn three: Last Scythe dies. Two units die. Womp womp.


Not to mention: What's worth dropping?

No seriously. The only thing I can think of is 20 man Warrior units onto objectives, but even that seems suboptimal.

When you deep strike or transport units downfield in most armies, it's a unit that has strong but short ranged shooting that you want to get into range. Plasma, Melta, Heavy Flamers - that sort of thing. But Necrons don't have that. Or you're transporting melee units so they're closer, but Lychguard are extremely "meh" and Flayed Ones have their own problems.

tl;dr: I think Night Scythes suck in this edition and really hope they either drop in points or get rules changes. I'd take them at 100-120 points, not at 174.

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/16 20:23:42

Post by: sieGermans

Agreed, aye.

Still! Far different than saying “everything is always lost”!

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/16 21:02:13

Post by: torblind

If you could fly in an HQ or two to go with the lychguard, it wouldn't be too bad any more. (Proposed change to make it viable)

Anrakyr + cryptek + 10 lychguard droping on the artillery backline of an AM player would certainly shake things up.

Or Orikan with those 10 lychguard.

Or allow the NS to arrive late, ie by flanking or some other mechanic and drop the payload that same turn.

Just the threat of it would certainly make that AM player think twice about how he deploys.

Seeing as we are not likely to get any primarch to bolser ranks, we might as well be graced with some sorely needed power with speed


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also buffing the warscythe to dmg 3 would be welcome and becoming.

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/16 23:01:14

Post by: skoffs

torblind wrote:
If you could fly in an HQ or two to go with the lychguard, it wouldn't be too bad any more. (Proposed change to make it viable)

Anrakyr + cryptek + 10 lychguard droping on the artillery backline of an AM player would certainly shake things up.

Yep, at the moment you would need three Night Scythes to pull that off.
Not worth it, unless they fix.

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/17 16:38:28

Post by: sieGermans

Can we review the rationale behind the Canoptek Stalker (A) vs. Praetorians (B) again?

Stalker is the same number of points for fewer attacks and less resilience. How have we graded them so differently?

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/17 19:02:32

Post by: torblind

sieGermans wrote:
Can we review the rationale behind the Canoptek Stalker (A) vs. Praetorians (B) again?

Stalker is the same number of points for fewer attacks and less resilience. How have we graded them so differently?

I'd be interested in that too, I feal the opinion on much of the necron fast attack units has shifted over the period of 8th ed

Reply by: sieGermans - click to view full reply 

93608

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/17 19:38:26

Post by: sieGermans

I know it might be tempting to wait until Chapter Approved, however I almost think that makes it more important that we gauge relative utilities now: so we have a good point of comparison come CA.

Reply by: Cmdr_Sune - click to view full reply 

111664

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/17 19:56:32

Post by: Cmdr_Sune

I'm sure they will fix the Night Scythe. They will have to change the way tomb world deployment works.

They should also have the same rules as AM Valkyries where they can drop of units anytime during their move at least 9" from the enemy and with similiar rules as deep striking units. In 7th infantry could either disembark before the NS moved or after.

Perhaps the Tesla destructor could get 4 additional hits on a 6? At 3+ to hit it would give it about 11-12 hits, which would make it better against both vehicles and infantry.

Reply by: Dew - click to view full reply 

108723

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/17 20:37:11

Post by: Dew

torblind wrote:

sieGermans wrote:
Can we review the rationale behind the Canoptek Stalker (A) vs. Praetorians (B) again?

Stalker is the same number of points for fewer attacks and less resilience. How have we graded them so differently?

I'd be interested in that too, I feal the opinion on much of the necron fast attack units has shifted over the period of 8th ed

I really love my pretorians. With the blade a full unit of 10 can dish out 30 attacks. They are fast, they fly, and you have to kill them down to the last man with autopass morale.

At 350 points though? Gtf out of here

Reply by: EnTyme - click to view full reply 

99970

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/17 20:45:56

Post by: EnTyme

I played one game with my 'Crons shortly after 8th dropped. Got tabled in three turns by a mediocre Tempestus list and thought "Hmm. Maybe I should wait until I have a better idea on how to build an 8th ed. list". Two weeks later, I read that Necrons had yet to finished higher than the 40th percentile in any major tournaments, so I decided to focus on AoS until GW throws us a bone. Doesn't sound like we've been doing much better since, but hopefully we'll get something decent in CA, and we won't have to wait more than a few more months for our Codex. Oh well. I'm gonna try to get in a game of 40k this weekend (I miss my metal dudes!).

Reply by: Drewtavian - click to view full reply 

112794

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/17 20:57:08

Post by: Drewtavian

It's a funnything my club still calls crons dirty cheats, and refuse to play against half my stuff as its "broken" regardless of the stuff they can take. It's going to be a double edged sword for me when they do release the Dex as I already know they won't play against them.

Reply by: Requizen - click to view full reply 

89474

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/17 21:08:17

Post by: Requizen

 EnTyme wrote:
I played one game with my 'Crons shortly after 8th dropped. Got tabled in three turns by a mediocre Tempestus list and thought "Hmm. Maybe I should wait until I have a better idea on how to build an 8th ed. list". Two weeks later, I read that Necrons had yet to finished higher than the 40th percentile in any major tournaments, so I decided to focus on AoS until GW throws us a bone. Doesn't sound like we've been doing much better since, but hopefully we'll get something decent in CA, and we won't have to wait more than a few more months for our Codex. Oh well. I'm gonna try to get in a game of 40k this weekend (I miss my metal dudes!).

Same boat. I actually own Imperial Guard but would much rather play Necrons. Been doing nothing but AoS and Shadespire lately.

They just need to drop points for anything that's not a Troop or HQ at the moment. Some things are probably fine (I think the C'tan are imo appropriately priced, and Deathmarks more need a weapon fix than points), but geez, getting any worthwhile unit on the table costs an arm and a leg. Destroyers haven't even left the box since 8th.

Reply by: torblind - click to view full reply 

104496

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/17 22:11:17

Post by: torblind

I had an interesting 1500 pt game against an all-shooty pre-codex Tyranid list the other day. I won on points after 5 turns.

The lists were:

Spoiler:

Necrons, vanguard: --------------------------------

- Imotekh the Stormlord

- 10 Tesla Immortals

- Triarch Stalker
- Nightbringer
- 17 Flayed Ones

- Doomsday Ark

- 4 scarabs
- 6 scarabs


Tyranids, battalion: --------------------------------

- Hive tyrant with extra shooting
- Hive tyrant vanilla

- Barbed Hierodule

- Exocrine

- 3 Hive Guard
- 3 Hive Guard

- 3 Tyranid Warrior
- 1 Biovore

- 3 Ripper swarms
- 3 Ripper swarms (both in deep strike)

(his Ripper Swarms are Troop choices, can you believe it)

DEPLOYMENT: ------------------------

We were playing by the old rules, I completed first, meaning I got to go first.

We deployed like this:

Spoiler:

Letters should be fairly self explanatory, eg. "E" = Exocrine, "N" = Nightbringer, "I" = Immortal etc.

And this is how it looked on table:

Spoiler:

Initially I was thinking I could drop the Flayed Ones in range of Imotekh's buff, to fend of approaching hordes( genestealers or gaunts), but alas, he did not bring any.

So my plan after seeing his army became roughly:

- Shoot big things with the Stalker and Ark
- Shoot smaller things with MWBD tesla immortals
- Use the Nightbringer to go after less choppy big shooters (Exocrine/Hive guard)
- Harass his backlines with the Flayed Ones.

And then he seized on me. With my army deployed in an exposed forward
position. I thought that was that...


---------------- TURN 1: ----------------

Spoiler:

Man those Impalor Cannons of the Hive Guard, they are everything the Gauss Cannons wish they were, 36" Heavy 2, S8, -2, D3, ignores LOS, ignores cover.

He easily destroyed the Stalker and puts wounds on the DD Ark and some scarabs, but does not move towards me. Holds back his Rippers for now. I feared he would blast away the scarabs and destroy the Nightbringer. All in all not too bad.

My turn:

He has exposed his warlord in range for the C'tan's short ranged attacks. With all the tricks in the bags of the Nightbringer and Imotekh I hoped to be able to bring it down without even using the DD Ark (so that it can start pounding his big Lord of war)

Then this happens: The 9 next dice rolls I make are all 1s and single 2(!). I died a little inside.

- Advanced 4 scarabs: Rolled a 1

- Nightbringers Assault D6 shots: Rolled a 1
- Roll to hit his warlord (2+) with that one attack: Rolled a 1
- Fired antimatter meteor on the warlord: Rolled a 1

Decide to use the DD Ark to make a solid dent in his warlord:

- Heavy D3 hits: Rolled a 1
- I CP rerolled it: Rolled a 2 (so still 1 hit)
- Rolled one hit die: Rolled a 1

- Imotekh shoots (2+) at his warlord: Rolled a 1

I needed to kill something in the shooting phase, so I decided to target Imotekh's D6 mortal wounds ability on his lone Biovore. It triggers on 2+:

- Imotekh's ability: Rolled a 1

Now, I work as a statistician, I had seen my opponent roll those exact dice with seemingly average results and I'm not superstitious. Yet at this point I changed dice set.

It was an instant success: MWBD Tesla immortals clears 3 Tyranid warriors from the nearby ruin.

I brought in my Flayed Ones behind his Hive Guard. They of course failed their charge.

---------------- TURN 2: ----------------

Spoiler:

He focuses on the Flayed Ones, but with strike of rare luck I manage to pluck models to leave 2 out of LOS of his final shooting units. Immortals and DD Ark suffers some damage.

I spend my last 2 CP to pass morale and bring back 6-7 Flayed Ones. And with that the tables turned.

With better dice rolling I easily kill the Hive Tyrant Warlord (though I had to resort to the DD Ark to finish off the last wound).

Nightbringer charges the Exocrine, takes 2 wounds overwatch, but makes the charge, rolls all 4 hits (2+), rolls 4 wounds (2+), and rolls 17 damage, killing it in one go. Amazing!

He is now Exposed, but that Exocrine was murdalizing my army. But with the Exocrine and Warlord Hive Tyrant gone from that flank, it was now under control.

Flayed Ones charge one unit of Hive Guard then consolidates into the next. Chips off some wounds, but their guns are silent for some time.

Status:

Spoiler:

Flayed One action in the rear:

Spoiler:

(Image is actually from his Turn 3, as you can see the Rippers he brought in then, but the FO and HG are largely unchanged)

---------------- TURN 3: ----------------

Spoiler:

He smites the Nightbringer to death.

Barbed Hierodule and 2nd Hive tyrant pounds the scarabs and the immortals that are now in cover, they survive with manageable casualties.

Both his ripper swarm units come in to try to salvage his back line problems. One of them makes it into combat but don't make much of a difference.

At this point it's an attrition game. Which is great news.

My turn, scarabs move up to lock themselves in combat with the Biovore, other scarabs take care of one the unenganged Ripper swarm unit. Immortals lurk in the middle ruin raining MWBD tesla wherever possible. DD Ark scores a wound on his Lord of War, inflicting 6 damage.

Flayed Ones reanimate and continue working on the Hive Guard.

---------------- TURN 4: ----------------

Spoiler:

He moves back his Hive Tyrant and Barbed Hierodule to deal with the Flayed Ones, shoots at the Immortals, but makes a mistake and advances his Hive Tyrant, thus cannot charge, but blocks the path of the Barbed Hierodule. The gigantic Lord of War charges two nearby scarabs instead. Only manages to kill them with the last die.

I reanimate my losses.

With his Lord of war available in the open again, I blast another successful wound from the DDark, rolling another 6.

MWBD tesla immortals kill the lone Biovore and shoots at the Hive Tyrant (no damage). Flayed Ones continues their work in the back.

Map:

Spoiler:

---------------- TURN 5: ----------------

Spoiler:

At this point a Necron victory is a given. He has no man (animal) power to hunt down objectives, the Immortals will survive anything he throws at them in shooting, and I score more VP than him every turn. (Scarabs are awesome!)

He moves back to finish my Flayed Ones with the Hierodule over to fight phases, I take the opportunity to advance out with the DD Ark to score the Advance mission (Move out of own Deployment zone).

At the end he rolls below 3 to continue so the game ends anyway.

---------------- CONCLUDING REMARKS ----------------

Spoiler:

His list was experimental and interesting, strong shooting for nids in 8th even stronger now with the new codex, and the way the match went at 1500 points that Lord of War was too expensive and prevented him fielding several smaller units for board control and objectives.


That in combination with Flayed Ones dropping in to keep his Hive Guard busy, sealed the deal. This was the first time he had that nasty reanimation surprise happen to him with a near wiped out unit that bounces back. I won't be let off that easily next time.


Though I could easily have gone first, rolled average, and brought down his warlord and chipped of several wounds on his Lord of war, that too would have been a very different game. The Nightbringer could have survived fighting the Exocrine had I played a little smarter.


Also he should have used his Rippers to block access to his rear.


My DD Ark never got to use his flayer arrays, but they were a nice Ripper swarm deterrent. He could have forced me to Fly away and fire at low power though, but at turn 3 it would have made little difference.


It was nice that the tesla immortals wiped the Tyranid Warriors in one go, but after that they didn't have any good targets. I'd still bring them 10 times out of 10!

Reply by: skoffs - click to view full reply 

52238

Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP @ 2017/11/18 14:27:20

Post by: skoffs

If you guys settle on a new score for things I can make the edit, but I mean, in a few weeks we're going to need to potentially redo ALL the scores, so is it really that Immediately necessary?

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