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Post by: zedmeister
Wha…? Oh!
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Post by: drbored
It's hilarious that on the Forgeworld front page they are advertising the 'Engines of Death'.
On the advert image are the Stormbird, Storm Eagle, Mastodon, and Vindicator, for Horus Heresy.
The Vindicator of both kinds is gone from all countries and the Mastodon is gone from UK site (but still available on US site).
Love it.
But yeah, seeing as the Mastodon is still available on US site, I don't think it's a hint that the kit is coming in plastic. Instead I think if you give it a week or so, it'll come back to the UK site as if nothing happened.
Compare that to the Vindicator variants, which are both gone on all country sites.
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Post by: Dudeface
Typhon is £70 unsurprisingly
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
Makes sense. Trades the spartan ramp sprue for the gun, and the land raider sponson sprue for the smaller tank one.
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Post by: JWBS
 lord_blackfang wrote:
A not particularly charismatic, extremely niche unit in a niche side game would be a very strange choice for being GW's largest plastic kit of all time.
I disagree that it isn't charismatic. People have a lot of love for this due to the sheer impressiveness of it but at the same time it's daunting for anyone that knows what they're doing. It's the reason I bought stuff like the Asterius / Porphyrion (Asian variant) but not the Fellblade or Mastadon so I understand the rationale.
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Post by: Gadzilla666
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Would a Warhound be more profitable though?
I mean. I wouldn’t say not to one of those either. But it’s a lot of points, and for most armies, something you need to ally in.
The Mastodon is also a lot of points, but something the majority of Heresy armies, being Marines, can just include, rules for LoW limits not withstanding.
Only 50 points more, and it can be used by any HH army.
But be honest Mad Doc, you just want a plastic Mastodon for your Ironwing. You've got the treadhead bug. Nothing wrong with that. I know the feeling. 
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
I’m not against Any Big Model. I’m just baffled folk seem so convinced the Mastodon won’t/can’t come to plastic.
The Thunderhawk may be more iconic. But….it’s a flier, so rules wise it’s a bit big to be a properly practical feasible playing piece.
I’d still buy one. I just think we are indeed getting a plakky Mastodon.
Also. Given the Mastodon forms an armoured corridor once it’s crashed through your wall? I’d want to install a short linear accelerator so the troops piling through the rear can make a proper grand entrance from the front.
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Post by: ImAGeek
I find the Mastodon incredibly charismatic, for what it’s worth. One of my favourite models in the whole Heresy range.
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Post by: Shadow Walker
 ImAGeek wrote:I find the Mastodon incredibly charismatic, for what it’s worth. One of my favourite models in the whole Heresy range.
Same here. Although I wouldn't say no if the Warhound came before it (assuming any of them is planned in plastic) as I really like it.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Anyway I'm afraid overnight the Mastodon got demoted from "No longer available" to "Temporarily out of stock".
Flachion, however, has joined the Fellblade and Glaive in the Sold Out club.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
I’ll take one of them and all.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Not sure I will. Superheavies don't appeal to me gamewise and I already have a Baneblade display piece and that's a better sculpt than the HH versions.
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Post by: tneva82
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I’m not against Any Big Model. I’m just baffled folk seem so convinced the Mastodon won’t/can’t come to plastic..
Can it come? Yes. I just don't assume it comes instantly because of feature that is well known bug from store...
Where's plastic thunderhawk and warhound? Based on your logic both should be here already since they have been in same state as Mastodon now...
Out of stock items appearing as no longer available is well known feature/bug of the store for YEARS AND YEARS. That's hardly evidence it is coming for sure.
I wait for actual evidence before proceeding to ignore whole release(since I can't field one no point buying one)
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Post by: tauist
Mastodon looks the size of a large terrain piece, firestorm redoubt is about that size? Bloody thing could pass as a mobile apartment 
Would I want one in plastic? I'd love to know..
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Post by: The Phazer
I'd really like a plastic Mastodon FWIW, but we'll just have to see, as it looks like it's more a victim of the FW store system than discontinued.
But I can see a lot of 40k players buying a Fellblade too (I've always been a bit baffled by the lack of a Marine super heavy from GW, just seems a no brainer from their POV) so that seems much more likely to be imminent.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
I would be fine with a mastodon in plastic, would even buy one while I dont plan to get one in resin. I just dont think it is likely anytime soon. Compared to other super heavy kits, it isn't nearly as iconic as the Thunderhawk or Warhound, which also have a lot more applicability to 40k and collectors/painters. The Fellblade is also a smaller kit that would also overlap with the glaive and falcon to get more use out of most of the hull sprues, where the mastodon is unique.
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Post by: Strg Alt
How many Dreads can be transported by a Mastodon?
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Post by: beast_gts
Each one counts as 10 infantry, so 4.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
And people dislike Fury of the Ancients now?
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Post by: Sacredroach
I love Fury of the Ancients. Lots of fun to play, rare to win unless my opponent has no grasp of small unit tactics.
I personally love Deredeo dreads, and use Hellfire Cannonades to really poor effect.
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Post by: zedmeister
Well, as some suspected, the Mastodon is moved to Temp out of Stock. The Falchion though is now marked as sold out?
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Post by: tneva82
 MajorWesJanson wrote:I would be fine with a mastodon in plastic, would even buy one while I dont plan to get one in resin. I just dont think it is likely anytime soon. Compared to other super heavy kits, it isn't nearly as iconic as the Thunderhawk or Warhound, which also have a lot more applicability to 40k and collectors/painters. The Fellblade is also a smaller kit that would also overlap with the glaive and falcon to get more use out of most of the hull sprues, where the mastodon is unique.
Eh. 30b is only one where any 3 are reallw usable. Warhound is automatic loss with opponent not even needing to waste time rolling attacks.
Thunderhawk eats silly amount of points for transport that you can't fill even and can unload turn 3 earliest...
Only way to use either in 40k is basically play huge(like 6k+) game on regular board size with custom terrain summed as planet bowling ball with both sides using such a point sink to fit on board...and then game is decided by who goes first annihilating enemy,
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
tneva82 wrote: MajorWesJanson wrote:I would be fine with a mastodon in plastic, would even buy one while I dont plan to get one in resin. I just dont think it is likely anytime soon. Compared to other super heavy kits, it isn't nearly as iconic as the Thunderhawk or Warhound, which also have a lot more applicability to 40k and collectors/painters. The Fellblade is also a smaller kit that would also overlap with the glaive and falcon to get more use out of most of the hull sprues, where the mastodon is unique.
Eh. 30b is only one where any 3 are reallw usable. Warhound is automatic loss with opponent not even needing to waste time rolling attacks.
Thunderhawk eats silly amount of points for transport that you can't fill even and can unload turn 3 earliest...
Only way to use either in 40k is basically play huge(like 6k+) game on regular board size with custom terrain summed as planet bowling ball with both sides using such a point sink to fit on board...and then game is decided by who goes first annihilating enemy,
I suspect that if the warhound was made into plastic it would see a points drop to match its actual value. Thunderhawk is a lot closer in points to what it is worth, but I would imagine it would drop some as well. They arent ork superheavies after all.
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Post by: tneva82
FW units haven't got point/rule changes even after plastic version came...so nope. Not expecting.
And besides warhound is too big so it breaks the game anyway. It's pretty much impossible to get point that isn't either autoloss or autowin.
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Post by: Shadow Walker
So today will be a Vindicator day...or not?
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Post by: Not Online!!!
pls no. pls infantry. Hell i even take combiweapon box and or terminator weapon box over any other tank.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
I reckon the Glaive and Fellblade today.
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Post by: Gert
Not Online!!! wrote:pls no.
pls infantry.
Hell i even take combiweapon box and or terminator weapon box over any other tank.
You know it won't be though.
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Post by: zedmeister
Not Online!!! wrote:
Hell i even take combiweapon box and or terminator weapon box over any other tank.
Resin combi-weapon and seeker boltgun upgrades inbound
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Post by: GaroRobe
Not Online!!! wrote:
pls no.
pls infantry.
Hell i even take combiweapon box and or terminator weapon box over any other tank.
Terminator weapons, especially in plastic, would be amazing
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Post by: The Phazer
I would imagine some more Contemptor resin upgrades for the other legions is the most likely thing.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
We'll get the announcement that arms and legs are being removed from resin legion specific Leviathans
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Post by: zedmeister
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Post by: lord_blackfang
That's a bit weird, it's just the current plastic Phobos with resin WW1 sponsons. It's not a kit that's getting replaced, so I guess "armoured" Land Raiders are getting removed as a concept.
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Post by: zedmeister
Loads of Imperial Guard vehicles are up for Last Chance as well. Looks like the yearly prune has arrived...
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Doesn't look like there's anything noteworthy going on in the HH section
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Makes both variants.
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Post by: zedmeister
Damnit! Pipped at the post by Boney...
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Oh Globbets!
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
Hmm. 2 demolisher and one laser destroyer, or the other way around?
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Post by: stahly
Booom!
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Post by: The Phazer
That's nice.
And both at the same time, so the remaining list of tanks grows ever smaller.
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Post by: Shadow Walker
Call me a prophet
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Post by: Tavis75
 zedmeister wrote:Loads of Imperial Guard vehicles are up for Last Chance as well. Looks like the yearly prune has arrived...
Is there a way to filter the "Last chance to buy" stuff on the website? Or is it just a case of hunting through everything?
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Post by: zedmeister
Tavis75 wrote: zedmeister wrote:Loads of Imperial Guard vehicles are up for Last Chance as well. Looks like the yearly prune has arrived...
Is there a way to filter the "Last chance to buy" stuff on the website? Or is it just a case of hunting through everything?
Sometimes they'll add filters but not at this stage...
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Well at least it only took 1 release slot for both loadouts.
And it's a lovely lovely model, don't get me wrong, but it's almost at the bottom of units that actually matter for gameplay.
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Post by: GaroRobe
I wonder if the “just as planned” tease at the end of the article is an intentional tzeentch reference. Maybe 1k sons?
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Post by: Dysartes
...I'd like to dispute the use of "a hefty dozer blade" if the one on those pictures is what they're talking about.
If it comes with one more akin tot he one on the 40k plastic Vindicator, then I'll be more tolerant of that wording.
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Post by: Snord
 Dysartes wrote:...I'd like to dispute the use of "a hefty dozer blade" if the one on those pictures is what they're talking about.
It’s hefty compared to the spiky thing that comes on the HH vehicle sprue.
It looks great - I want one. Maybe only some Sicaran variants to go before we see some genuinely new plastic kits?
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
If they are doing a plastic Felblade, it is big enough that I can see it announced at an event, not a random Thursday.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Possibly. But they showed off the other two Super Heavies on Thursdays.
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Post by: Voss
 Snord wrote: Dysartes wrote:...I'd like to dispute the use of "a hefty dozer blade" if the one on those pictures is what they're talking about.
It’s hefty compared to the spiky thing that comes on the HH vehicle sprue.
It looks great - I want one. Maybe only some Sicaran variants to go before we see some genuinely new plastic kits?
Hopefully that will be the end. This was definitely the last tank kit I care about (and I do like it), not sure how many Sicaran variants there are at this point.
But its really past time to move on, or at least intertwine them better in a general schedule.
Do you mean the land raider variants? Or the Kratos way back at the start of HH releases, the kinda-sorta superheavy?
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Post by: SamusDrake
The Vindicator looks good.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Oh I fully expect the other two Sicarans and all the Fellblade variants to drop before any plastic infantry, the question is will we also see Deredeos, Drop Pods, Termites, Flyers etc before infantry.
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Post by: Shadow Walker
Four more Sicarans (Omega, Punisher, Venator, Arcus) could be some big upgrade sprue pack or two different tank kits. I bet on the latter.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Venator has already been shown off.
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Post by: Shadow Walker
Totally forgot that. So triple kit possible?
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Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
I am a big fan if the stubby dozer blade.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Each Sicaran has a totally different turret so you're not saving any sprue space by making it multikit.
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Post by: zedmeister
Got three more Sicaran turrets and possibly the 3 Arquitor variants and then the Sabre. Deredeo is a definite I reckon. Aircraft will probably come a bit later I think
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Ah yes forgot the Arquitors and Sabres too.
I wouldn't be surprised if they're really saving any new infantry for a second big box late in the year, with a tax of including a few of the by then "old" tanks if you want it sooner than 2024.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
Another tank, Im shocked, shocked I tell you...
You guys know the quote. Neat model, laser destroyer is gonna be useful.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another tank, Im shocked, shocked I tell you...
You guys know the quote. Neat model, laser destroyer is gonna be useful.
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Post by: Erren
One more Rhino chassis tank to go and FW can retire all those molds - the Damocles Command Rhino. I expect that getting rid of those resin molds is a priority when they’re so close to being done. The Deathstorm and Dreadclaw are both hybrid kits, as are the Storm Eagle/Fire Raptor. I’d expect those before the Arquitor and Sabre.
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Post by: Tsagualsa
Erren wrote:One more Rhino chassis tank to go and FW can retire all those molds - the Damocles Command Rhino. I expect that getting rid of those resin molds is a priority when they’re so close to being done. The Deathstorm and Dreadclaw are both hybrid kits, as are the Storm Eagle/Fire Raptor. I’d expect those before the Arquitor and Sabre.
The Storm Eagle is also a kit with a reputation for being really gakky to build because of warping etc., removing that would be extremely good.
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Post by: Strg Alt
Nice new tanks.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
They can retire the Rhino hull molds yesterday, just throw the resin Damocles dish in with a plastic Rhino.
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Post by: Quasistellar
You're welcome 
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
I do prefer this Vindicator to the 40K one. Both are nice like, but the Heresy one just looks…meaner, less subtle.
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Post by: tauist
a dual kit rhino variant, nice! Not my cuppa but if it was, I'd try kitbashing a Vindicator using this chassis and the 40K variant's cannon/dozer. The laser variant looks OK as it is.
Land Raider IIB going LCTB? hmm.. there was a rumour on B&CS about the 40K Land Raider going OOP.. what if GW is reintroducing a new, dual kit Land Raider/LR IIB kit? which can be used for 40K as well as 30K?
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Post by: Dawnbringer
 tauist wrote:
Land Raider IIB going LCTB? hmm.. there was a rumour on B& CS about the 40K Land Raider going OOP.. what if GW is reintroducing a new, dual kit Land Raider/ LR IIB kit? which can be used for 40K as well as 30K?
I had the same thought. I certainly see them combining LR variants into one box a la the Leman Russ, they might go ahead and stick in a IIB variant as well.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
lord_blackfang wrote:They can retire the Rhino hull molds yesterday, just throw the resin Damocles dish in with a plastic Rhino.
Even if the current Damocles specific top hatches don't fit the plastic version, it'd be fairly trivial for them to create a new one so they can replace it with a cheap conversion kit.
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Post by: drbored
zedmeister wrote:Got three more Sicaran turrets and possibly the 3 Arquitor variants and then the Sabre. Deredeo is a definite I reckon. Aircraft will probably come a bit later I think
If I had to guess on an order..
Sicaran variants, then Deredeo, then things like the Arquitor and Sabre, since those are relatively new resin kits.
AND THEN plastic assault marines.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Hey, look, the Vindicator Laser Destroyer. Of all the tanks, that was the one I was hoping for.
Sweet.
Maybe some infantry next time, though?
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Hey now let's not get kuh-ray-zee
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Post by: Strg Alt
 H.B.M.C. wrote:Hey, look, the Vindicator Laser Destroyer. Of all the tanks, that was the one I was hoping for.
Sweet.
Maybe some infantry next time, though?
Infantry?! Madness! 
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Post by: Snord
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I do prefer this Vindicator to the 40K one. Both are nice like, but the Heresy one just looks…meaner, less subtle.
I agree. And I like all the tubing etc on the laser version, as if it's still a bit experimental and jerrybuilt. As I've said before, this (to me) is what WH40k should look like as well.
I'd be surprised to see the Land Raider IIB resurface.
Unlike most of you, I don't really 'get' the Sabre. It doesn't look like the kind of vehicle that the Heresy-era Marines would have bothered with. And in appearance it's too much like a mini-Land Raider (although it's an improvement on the original, which was an especially horrible Rhino conversion). I hope it's not high on the list of plastic vehicles. From a modelling perspective (apart from plastic assault infantry) I'd prefer to see a speeder in plastic.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
drbored wrote: zedmeister wrote:Got three more Sicaran turrets and possibly the 3 Arquitor variants and then the Sabre. Deredeo is a definite I reckon. Aircraft will probably come a bit later I think
If I had to guess on an order..
Sicaran variants, then Deredeo, then things like the Arquitor and Sabre, since those are relatively new resin kits.
AND THEN plastic assault marines.
Don't forget the Javelin.
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Post by: tauist
Aye, Land Speeders and Javelins to complement the Sky hunters. Problem with those two is that their sprues can't be used in other vehicle variants, and we know how stingy HH2 has been with sprue counts..
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Post by: Fayric
Hm, coming from 40k, I always loved the vindicator. The absurdly huge canon up front and simple "no extras or sponsons" approach. But in 30k is just another tank, following the formula of lots of other stuff with the same role.
Still A really nice tank, just sad to see the siege shield didnt make it though.
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Post by: Midnightdeathblade
I don't know why you'd even use a standard vindicator with how badly they mauled the rules. Whoever wrote this edition wanted no marines getting hit with ap2 or 3 templates unless its a damned superheavy.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
tauist wrote:Aye, Land Speeders and Javelins to complement the Sky hunters. Problem with those two is that their sprues can't be used in other vehicle variants, and we know how stingy HH2 has been with sprue counts..
The Javelin can use the vehicle sponson sprue for some weapon options, and they could design the crew to be interchangeable between the Javelin and land speeder with a few tweaks. They are also smaller vehicles, so could possibly fit on a single tank sprue or a few dreadnought sprues
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Post by: tauist
MajorWesJanson wrote: tauist wrote:Aye, Land Speeders and Javelins to complement the Sky hunters. Problem with those two is that their sprues can't be used in other vehicle variants, and we know how stingy HH2 has been with sprue counts..
The Javelin can use the vehicle sponson sprue for some weapon options, and they could design the crew to be interchangeable between the Javelin and land speeder with a few tweaks. They are also smaller vehicles, so could possibly fit on a single tank sprue or a few dreadnought sprues
Ah, indeed didn't realize the crew sprue could be interchangable. Good call
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Post by: lord_blackfang
I don't think we'll ever see the flying couch speeder in plastic.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
MajorWesJanson wrote: tauist wrote:Aye, Land Speeders and Javelins to complement the Sky hunters. Problem with those two is that their sprues can't be used in other vehicle variants, and we know how stingy HH2 has been with sprue counts..
The Javelin can use the vehicle sponson sprue for some weapon options, and they could design the crew to be interchangeable between the Javelin and land speeder with a few tweaks. They are also smaller vehicles, so could possibly fit on a single tank sprue or a few dreadnought sprues
Just checking the unit entry, and the Javelin can swap out its cyclone missile launcher for Lascannon or Volkite.
Currently, you can only get a model with cyclone or Lascannon. So if the Volkite option is new? Pretty good bet it is coming to plastic.
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Post by: Rihgu
 Midnightdeathblade wrote:I don't know why you'd even use a standard vindicator with how badly they mauled the rules. Whoever wrote this edition wanted no marines getting hit with ap2 or 3 templates unless its a damned superheavy.
The Vindicator does have an AP3 blast, with rending 6+. Plus, with Brutal 3, it's not *terrible* at killing 2+ save models as they have 3 chances to fail for each wound they've taken.
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Post by: Bobug
Midnightdeathblade wrote:I don't know why you'd even use a standard vindicator with how badly they mauled the rules. Whoever wrote this edition wanted no marines getting hit with ap2 or 3 templates unless its a damned superheavy.
Let's see...
Effective against multi wound power armour so that's vets, legion elites and gal vorbak. Cause 3 instant death wounds with no armour saves against castellax, vorax and myrmidons, 3 no save armour save wounds against domitars and arlatax...
They also cause 3 saves against terminators that if you fail one you're just flat out dead against. (Admittedly difficult against cataphractii unless you get a rend, in which case it's pretty much a confirmed kill)
Also although they won't one hit a vehicle, they will almost certainly cause a hull point , since they glance av13 on a 1, and get to roll 2d6 pick the highest
Yeah vindicators are great
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Post by: Tsagualsa
Bobug wrote: Midnightdeathblade wrote:I don't know why you'd even use a standard vindicator with how badly they mauled the rules. Whoever wrote this edition wanted no marines getting hit with ap2 or 3 templates unless its a damned superheavy.
Let's see...
Effective against multi wound power armour so that's vets, legion elites and gal vorbak. Cause 3 instant death wounds with no armour saves against castellax, vorax and myrmidons, 3 no save armour save wounds against domitars and arlatax...
They also cause 3 saves against terminators that if you fail one you're just flat out dead against. (Admittedly difficult against cataphractii unless you get a rend, in which case it's pretty much a confirmed kill)
Also although they won't one hit a vehicle, they will almost certainly cause a hull point , since they glance av13 on a 1, and get to roll 2d6 pick the highest
Yeah vindicators are great
Vindicators are cheap, which is a factor one should not overlook.
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Post by: Bobug
They're also a bit tougher than a pred and are reinforced I believe. They've got it all going on
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Post by: Gadzilla666
Dig the plastic Vindicator. But ok, time for some infantry now, gw. And maybe those Daemons of the Ruinstorm/Cults and Militia rules? Esoterist needs something to summon, doesn't he?
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Post by: Snrub
I like how they still use a Primaris silhouette instead of a heresy marine. Completely useless. 
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Post by: drbored
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: MajorWesJanson wrote: tauist wrote:Aye, Land Speeders and Javelins to complement the Sky hunters. Problem with those two is that their sprues can't be used in other vehicle variants, and we know how stingy HH2 has been with sprue counts..
The Javelin can use the vehicle sponson sprue for some weapon options, and they could design the crew to be interchangeable between the Javelin and land speeder with a few tweaks. They are also smaller vehicles, so could possibly fit on a single tank sprue or a few dreadnought sprues
Just checking the unit entry, and the Javelin can swap out its cyclone missile launcher for Lascannon or Volkite.
Currently, you can only get a model with cyclone or Lascannon. So if the Volkite option is new? Pretty good bet it is coming to plastic.
Yep, a nice little thing that hints at a new plastic kit.
I thought about doing an analysis of the rest of the range based on rules, but at the end of the day I decided to scrap it.
Basically, look at the Despoiler rules for what you can take. When you see they can take all the same stuff that a Tactical squad can take, it makes sense that they'd get a simple arm-swap upgrade. (doesn't make sense it's in resin and only for 5 models, but hey, there it is.)
Compare that to things like Assault Marines and Breachers. There are further options and fewer cross-compatibility, so I'd imagine they will be getting full plastic, though I wouldn't be surprised to see SOME of the options get partitioned off into upgrade packs (breacher special weapons, assault marine combat shields that we've never had, etc)
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Post by: Matrindur
Interesting how you get most of the Cerberus on this sprue too. I think only the laser itself and the plate on top of it are missing?
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Post by: Keel
drbored wrote: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: MajorWesJanson wrote: tauist wrote:Aye, Land Speeders and Javelins to complement the Sky hunters. Problem with those two is that their sprues can't be used in other vehicle variants, and we know how stingy HH2 has been with sprue counts..
The Javelin can use the vehicle sponson sprue for some weapon options, and they could design the crew to be interchangeable between the Javelin and land speeder with a few tweaks. They are also smaller vehicles, so could possibly fit on a single tank sprue or a few dreadnought sprues
Just checking the unit entry, and the Javelin can swap out its cyclone missile launcher for Lascannon or Volkite.
Currently, you can only get a model with cyclone or Lascannon. So if the Volkite option is new? Pretty good bet it is coming to plastic.
Yep, a nice little thing that hints at a new plastic kit.
I thought about doing an analysis of the rest of the range based on rules, but at the end of the day I decided to scrap it.
Basically, look at the Despoiler rules for what you can take. When you see they can take all the same stuff that a Tactical squad can take, it makes sense that they'd get a simple arm-swap upgrade. (doesn't make sense it's in resin and only for 5 models, but hey, there it is.)
Compare that to things like Assault Marines and Breachers. There are further options and fewer cross-compatibility, so I'd imagine they will be getting full plastic, though I wouldn't be surprised to see SOME of the options get partitioned off into upgrade packs (breacher special weapons, assault marine combat shields that we've never had, etc)
Assault Marine sergeants lost the option for a thunder hammer this edition, but the Breachers got to keep it which annoys me no end.
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Post by: Not Online!!!
 Gadzilla666 wrote: Dig the plastic Vindicator. But ok, time for some infantry now, gw. And maybe those Daemons of the Ruinstorm/Cults and Militia rules? Esoterist needs something to summon, doesn't he?
na fam. aether bolts is where' it's at
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Post by: Gadzilla666
Not Online!!! wrote: Gadzilla666 wrote: Dig the plastic Vindicator. But ok, time for some infantry now, gw. And maybe those Daemons of the Ruinstorm/Cults and Militia rules? Esoterist needs something to summon, doesn't he?
na fam. aether bolts is where' it's at
Well, the Esoterist is up for pre-order now, so, maybe soon?
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Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
The choices that Forge World make in pricing things always confuses me. I was initially gladly surprised by Horus Ascended's price, but Exodus is £36...ouch.
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Post by: Fayric
ListenToMeWarriors wrote:The choices that Forge World make in pricing things always confuses me. I was initially gladly surprised by Horus Ascended's price, but Exodus is £36...ouch.
Many people will want a Horus model, and if its, relatively, cheap more people will probably get one, even for just having the iconic Warmaster =profit.
Exodus they dont expect to sell that well, so they need to keep the prize up to make it worth it. Also, people who want/need Exodus will probably pay whatever they charge anyway.
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Post by: Irbis
 Snrub wrote:I like how they still use a Primaris silhouette instead of a heresy marine. Completely useless.
Seeing vast majority of " HH" vehicles is in fact bought by 40K players subsidizing plastics for half-dead, niche game (which is why we see so little infantry, too, way too small cross game sale appeal) I'd bet using primaris is in fact far more useful reference for 95% of the customers
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Ah nice the Contemptor non-release? anti-release? subtraction? is only gonna eat up 3 weeks.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Might pick up the DA one.
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Post by: Strg Alt
Will these be sold by GW or by Forge World?
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Post by: beast_gts
Forge World - These are resin torsos designed to work with the new plastic Contemptor Dreadnought
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Post by: Platuan4th
Forge World. They're literally just the torsos for the FW full sets.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
They're not even releasing the torsos, they're unreleasing the shoulders and legs. Is this the first time ever that something going out of production is taking up a release slot?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I hope the World Eater one has a cool face like the Dark Angel one. That which is presented without evidence...
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Post by: GaroRobe
Was it the DA contemptor or leviathan that had options for the chest icon? I think it was the contemptor and I wonder if he still has a sword option
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Post by: drbored
 Irbis wrote: Snrub wrote:I like how they still use a Primaris silhouette instead of a heresy marine. Completely useless.
Seeing vast majority of " HH" vehicles is in fact bought by 40K players subsidizing plastics for half-dead, niche game (which is why we see so little infantry, too, way too small cross game sale appeal) I'd bet using primaris is in fact far more useful reference for 95% of the customers
lol this take is so bad.
They're focusing on vehicles because that's what FW has a lot of and they're trying to clear out space in FW's production line for Old World.
It sucks for the consumer, but GW isn't some massive mega-corp that summons plastic sprues from the plastic sprue fairy and assigns them prices based on the ramblings of a mad oracle (as much as many dakkaites will disagree with that). They're just a UK company that's running out of warehouse space and is trying to satisfy an ever more ravenous and growing group of hobbyists.
That said, we really need plastic assault marines already.
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Post by: Racerguy180
Yes, it does suck for those wanting to get into 30k but in a non-armoured intensive legion so I guess I need to spend significantly more than those that want to run TANKS, TANKS & MORE TANKS!!!
Or just wait for GW to recognize that not every legion benefits from armour the same way.
But it's ok, 3d printing co.es to the rescue...
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Post by: Snrub
Eww I hadn't realised he'd replied to me. Ignore doing it's job.
I agree we need a proper assault kit though. The "upgrade" set is pretty poor. Would have been more palateable if it i'd been the same or similar to the MkII or Mk III weapon kits released previously, but as it stands a handful of chainswords and a power axe is the most low-effort stop gap possible.
It's almost like they should have just included them in the base kit like they did with the MkIII/IV armour. 
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Really feels like they crammed the Mk6 into a production slot not intended for fully featured infantry kits. Maybe a Necromunda gang expansion slot.
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Post by: tneva82
Racerguy180 wrote:Yes, it does suck for those wanting to get into 30k but in a non-armoured intensive legion so I guess I need to spend significantly more than those that want to run TANKS, TANKS & MORE TANKS!!!
Or just wait for GW to recognize that not every legion benefits from armour the same way.
But it's ok, 3d printing co.es to the rescue...
Well we know there's more plastic infatry coming so he's sprouting crap as usual.
If you classify his messages as "trash" 100% of tine then you have 0% misclassification rate 
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Post by: Kanluwen
Daemons of the Ruinstorm
But this is just the beginning. The Horus Heresy team has been extremely busy writing, playtesting, illustrating, and laying out the next wave of supplements. Alongside these projects, they’ve been working away on a few other army lists, which are very nearly ready to release as PDFs. The first of these is the much-anticipated Imperialis Militia army list. This army is a kit-basher’s dream, and we saved it until the release of the new Cadian Shock Troopers, the Veteran Guardsmen, and the Blooded to make it more achievable.
After that, we’ll be returning to all things Daemonic with a full army list for the Daemons of the Ruinstorm, representing a full warp breach of Neverborn spilling out of the churning Sea of Souls. There’s more work to do yet – it’s a tricky faction to balance, but we hope to have it ready at some point over the summer.
All the Esoterists, Daemoniacs, and other rum coves out there can download their The Burning of Ohmn-Mat PDF from this very website by clicking the button above. It contains rules for using such luminaries as Samus and Ka’Bandha, alongside Daemonic Regents, Attendants, and Brutes. As for the rest, we’ll have more for you – including a roadmap for the rest of the year – in the not-so-grim darkness of the very near future. Sign up to the newsletter to be the first to hear about new developments.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
But this is just the beginning. The Horus Heresy team has been extremely busy writing, playtesting, illustrating, and laying out the next wave of supplements. Alongside these projects, they’ve been working away on a few other army lists, which are very nearly ready to release as PDFs. The first of these is the much-anticipated Imperialis Militia army list. This army is a kit-basher’s dream, and we saved it until the release of the new Cadian Shock Troopers, the Veteran Guardsmen, and the Blooded to make it more achievable.
After that, we’ll be returning to all things Daemonic with a full army list for the Daemons of the Ruinstorm, representing a full warp breach of Neverborn spilling out of the churning Sea of Souls. There’s more work to do yet – it’s a tricky faction to balance, but we hope to have it ready at some point over the summer.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
The Blooded? Who are the Blooded?
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Post by: Old-Four-Arms
The Traitor Guard Kill Team
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-PL/kill-team-blooded-2022
EDIT : I'm just reading "no new miniatures" for Imperialis Militia tbh..
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
The Chaos Imperial guard models.
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Post by: The Phazer
It's the Kill Team traitor guardsmen box.
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Post by: Tsagualsa
On the one hand, that sound like we'll get tied over with various get-you-by pdfs until summer, on the other at least they acknowledge that these factions exist at all and voiced intent to support them. That they're working on full lists is great, and having a roadmap will calm a lot of anxiety among the players and hopefully quiet the 'It's a dead game'-criers.
So cautious optimism? I can live with that.
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Post by: Not Online!!!
So militia then daemons then supplements?
Do we really need supplements? Automatically Appended Next Post:
Correction: Diys as oldschool as it gets.
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Post by: Scottywan82
I love the way Daemon armies work in HH. I really wish more of that open-ended nature was present in the 40K book.
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Post by: Gadzilla666
Am I the only one who noticed the part where they mentioned the future addition of Cultists and Daemon Engines?
It's looking more and more like HH is the place for any Traitor Astartes player of discerning taste.
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Post by: Scottywan82
Gadzilla666 wrote: Am I the only one who noticed the part where they mentioned the future addition of Cultists and Daemon Engines?
It's looking more and more like HH is the place for any Traitor Astartes player of discerning taste.
Agreed. It's like all the options they ripped out of 40K landed in HH.
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Post by: Tsagualsa
 Scottywan82 wrote: Gadzilla666 wrote: Am I the only one who noticed the part where they mentioned the future addition of Cultists and Daemon Engines?
It's looking more and more like HH is the place for any Traitor Astartes player of discerning taste.
Agreed. It's like all the options they ripped out of 40K landed in HH.
If they really want to expand HH to its own game they'll run out of marine stuff to do eventually*, having Mechanicum/Imperial Army/Demons etc. is pretty much a necessity. I'm all for it, it doesn't really matter to me if it says HH or 40k on the tin, more variety is always good.
*
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
Imperial militia list was designed to use existing guard kits in HH in the first place. IF GW was going to make plastic HH guard, they would probably do Solar Auxila anyways. But that is probably down the priority list from Astartes, Custodes, and Mechanicum.
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Post by: Old-Four-Arms
MajorWesJanson wrote:
Imperial militia list was designed to use existing guard kits in HH in the first place. IF GW was going to make plastic HH guard, they would probably do Solar Auxila anyways. But that is probably down the priority list from Astartes, Custodes, and Mechanicum.
Fair point, I was basing myself on the fact that the old Crusade Imperialis list included both Solar Auxilia and Imperialis Militia.
If they are now splitting them up in separate lists/pdf, we might see plastic Solar Auxilia... once.
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Post by: Gert
Fun times.
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Post by: Shadow Walker
Tsagualsa wrote:
If they really want to expand HH to its own game they'll run out of marine stuff to do eventually*
But before that we need the updated Blackshield army list and the updated = no differences in size like now, models in all HH armor marks possible, for the joy of conversions (and tons of money for GW).
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Post by: lord_blackfang
I have an honest question. Why are 30k demons different from 40k demons?
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Post by: Tsagualsa
AFAIK the 30k demons are a rarity in that they have a lot of 'true undivided' demons, as the chaos gods pooled their efforts for some time to beat the emperor over the head with it. Thus there are dudes like these demon brutes, a lot of demon princes and 'greater undivided demons' bordering on minor gods like Madail. Under normal 40k conditions, you would not see such a sustained effort of all the ruinous powers combined.
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Post by: beast_gts
IIRC it's because the HH is the first time many of them are seen in real space, and they're still largely an unknown element.
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Post by: Not Online!!!
They also don't have 10'000 years of cristalisation from their followers yet aswell...
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Post by: tauist
They look heaps better for one. I can barely stand the sight of most 40K Chaos stuff and would never consider collecting a 40K Chaos army, 30K daemons OTOH I could well see getting into. They actually look intimidating compared to the flanderized dross 40K offers
Just my opinion of course
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Post by: drbored
Very nice. Now the Esoterists aren't dead weight!
I'm curious about the Imperial Militia stuff. Basically just seems like Astra Militarum, take that range of models, and translate them over to 30k. Not really sure what to think of that, but we'll see how they handle it.
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Post by: Crablezworth
drbored wrote:Very nice. Now the Esoterists aren't dead weight!
I'm curious about the Imperial Militia stuff. Basically just seems like Astra Militarum, take that range of models, and translate them over to 30k. Not really sure what to think of that, but we'll see how they handle it.
They are likely to suffer from some of the core problems auxillia do, namely weakness of blasts and vehicles in 2nd edition.
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Post by: Souleater
Might we see such a torso for Custodes to use on the plastic Contemptor kit?
I know they have their own dedicated dread kits.
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Post by: Gert
At least most of these don't look really bad on their own.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
 Souleater wrote:Might we see such a torso for Custodes to use on the plastic Contemptor kit?
I know they have their own dedicated dread kits.
Hopefully Custodes will get a plasticization of some of their kits like the vehicles and dreadnoughts.
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Post by: tauist
They're alright but kind of bland? IMO the first batch of these looked better. At least the BA one isn't terribly blingy..
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Post by: Voss
So glad they didn't drag this out like the hats and shoulders.
I have questions about some loyalties in the pictures, however.
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Post by: GaroRobe
I wonder didn’t they group the traitors and loyalist together in the pics?
Honestly I may get the word bearer chasis, though the full model was much better. I’ll have to paint or scratch in the runes on the plastic models limbs, whereas the resin model had them precarved
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Post by: Kanluwen
They really should show these things on a Contemptor.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
So this is the most non-articley Thursday since the box release, innit? All it's showing is the Contemptor chests that have existed for years that we already knew were getting repackaged into the unrelease of the arms and legs.
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Post by: ImAGeek
£25 for the contemptor chests. Ludicrous.
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Post by: NAVARRO
HH chests is just for onlyfans.
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Post by: GaroRobe
I guess that confirms that got rid of the chest options that the Dark Angel Contemptor had for no reason.
I think that robed figure was the better of the two options, but it was neat to have the option to differentiate the models in case you bought two and I think it was something they could have easily kept.
Also, the SoH and EC contemptor dreadnoughts are open in the back, so you can see the pilot's helmet. Why is that a thing? So the marine can swivel inside to look behind him? The plastic ones don't have an opening, and it doesn't look like it's something every FW contemptor has either.
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Post by: Matrindur
 GaroRobe wrote:
Also, the SoH and EC contemptor dreadnoughts are open in the back, so you can see the pilot's helmet. Why is that a thing? So the marine can swivel inside to look behind him? The plastic ones don't have an opening, and it doesn't look like it's something every FW contemptor has either.
I don't see where they are open in the back?
If you mean this image here that isn't the back but the top
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Post by: lord_blackfang
How much were the old full kits?
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
I’m not 100%, but I tthink around £60ish?
The £25 tag here is a bit steep. But, as a one-off to get the HQ for my Dread army, I can stomach it.
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Post by: Glumy
Both games have different rules. So theyre different.
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Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
So happy I got the last 3 Heretic Contemptors I wanted before they sold out. £42 with no shoulder mount or weapons, but with the new kit you get so many spare weapons that it was just a case of either printing your own shoulder block or going to Taro Modelmaker for the bit.
£25 for the torso and head is a joke. So the torso and plastic kit is now £62.50 total. The GW site actually has the Legion specific Contemptors released today as bundles for £62.50.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/sons-of-horus-contemptor-dreadnought-2023
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Post by: ProfSrlojohn
In addition to the fact the others have mentioned, in addition at this point most daemons are also ill-formed and ill-anchored. Unlike in 40k where they have legions of Mortals and Marines behind them to anchor them, give them a defined form, and harness their power. In 30k there is little to no united idea of what daemons should look like and very few mortals to anchor them into reality, meaning they look much more like what the individual summoners imagine they look like, rather than what the consensus is they look like.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
 ProfSrlojohn wrote:
In addition to the fact the others have mentioned, in addition at this point most daemons are also ill-formed and ill-anchored. Unlike in 40k where they have legions of Mortals and Marines behind them to anchor them, give them a defined form, and harness their power. In 30k there is little to no united idea of what daemons should look like and very few mortals to anchor them into reality, meaning they look much more like what the individual summoners imagine they look like, rather than what the consensus is they look like.
I thought it was more that the Heresy represented a nearly unique event where the four gods were completely united in purpose so you could actually get true undivided daemons that just had specific attributes depending on the proportions of godstuff they incorporated.
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Post by: Tsagualsa
 Mr_Rose wrote: ProfSrlojohn wrote:
In addition to the fact the others have mentioned, in addition at this point most daemons are also ill-formed and ill-anchored. Unlike in 40k where they have legions of Mortals and Marines behind them to anchor them, give them a defined form, and harness their power. In 30k there is little to no united idea of what daemons should look like and very few mortals to anchor them into reality, meaning they look much more like what the individual summoners imagine they look like, rather than what the consensus is they look like.
I thought it was more that the Heresy represented a nearly unique event where the four gods were completely united in purpose so you could actually get true undivided daemons that just had specific attributes depending on the proportions of godstuff they incorporated.
That is not mutually exclusive, there were a lot of things ongoing with demons during the Heresy. The Word Bearers had their Gal Vorbak that were some sort of 'symbiotic possessed' with an unclear amount of that symbiosis just being a demonic trick, the TS had their spirti-familiars that were demons in disguise, there was whatever the Davinites and their godhead Madail were up to...
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Post by: General Kroll
Random question, what are the odds we get a plastic Xiphon interceptor?
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Post by: Theophony
It's a Marine vehicle, so better chance than not.
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Post by: Tsagualsa
Eventually: near 100%
Right now: rather slim
For now, they seem to be focusing on reducing the number of resin tank kits swiftly, which is probably economical because they share a lot of stuff between them, from whole hull segments to weapons and other accessories, while the Xyphon needs practically everything custom-made. I guess that it'll get done once they do flyers in general, but probably not now.
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Post by: Nevelon
Just my random guess, but low (but non-zero)
I would think if they were going to do a flyer it would be one of the ones that’s already a hybrid kit with the storm raven. Just toss a few more spures in the box. Leans in better to RoW and play styles for marines rather then a pure interceptor.
Again, no base in facts here, just a gut instinct.
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Post by: Kanluwen
I'd say the Xiphon is more likely than the hybrids, at least for the starting flyer line-up.
The Xiphon has seemed to be well-received in terms of design. Stormraven wasn't.
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Post by: Tsagualsa
 Kanluwen wrote:I'd say the Xiphon is more likely than the hybrids, at least for the starting flyer line-up.
The Xiphon has seemed to be well-received in terms of design. Stormraven wasn't.
If they wanted to do the Stormraven hybrids it would make more sense to redo the Stormraven at the same time and do a combo kit for both HH and 40k, or even remove the Stormraven alltogether and just have the hybrids in plastic. The Xyphon on the other hand needs something to intercept, which is why i personally do not think that it will released without some other plastic flyers. Plastic Thunderhawk is a near-certainity at some point, so i think they'll do some of the other flyers in the same time window, perhaps even in a themed season.
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Post by: Nevelon
Kanluwen wrote:I'd say the Xiphon is more likely than the hybrids, at least for the starting flyer line-up.
The Xiphon has seemed to be well-received in terms of design. Stormraven wasn't.
While true, IMHO the fire raptor and storm eagle fix a lot of the issues with the stormraven. Longer hull, less crap up top. They still have all the aesthetics and aerodynamics of a thrown brick, but that’s been the marine design philosophy from way back.
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Post by: General Kroll
All seem reasonable answers. Thanks guys.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
 Nevelon wrote:
Just my random guess, but low (but non-zero)
I would think if they were going to do a flyer it would be one of the ones that’s already a hybrid kit with the storm raven. Just toss a few more spures in the box. Leans in better to RoW and play styles for marines rather then a pure interceptor.
Again, no base in facts here, just a gut instinct.
I kind of expect all three.
Xiphon as your fighter, Storm Eagle for transport, Fire Raptor for ground assault.
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Post by: CragHack
ListenToMeWarriors wrote:So happy I got the last 3 Heretic Contemptors I wanted before they sold out. £42 with no shoulder mount or weapons, but with the new kit you get so many spare weapons that it was just a case of either printing your own shoulder block or going to Taro Modelmaker for the bit.
£25 for the torso and head is a joke. So the torso and plastic kit is now £62.50 total. The GW site actually has the Legion specific Contemptors released today as bundles for £62.50.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/sons-of-horus-contemptor-dreadnought-2023
O-em-gee, does the torso look atrocious on plain plastic contemptor. The full resin Contemptors were 53 euros each. Now it's 81. Assuming you get your 20% discount from GW for plastic garbage 'temptor AND free shipping from FW (which you won't, because 31 euros is below free shipping threshold), it's going to be 71 euros. That's fething 18 euros increase at the minimum, maximum being 40 fething euros for a product that looks way worse than original version. What the actual feth, GW? Maybe a monthly subscription to be able to place any orders?
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Post by: Tastyfish
Tsagualsa wrote: Kanluwen wrote:I'd say the Xiphon is more likely than the hybrids, at least for the starting flyer line-up.
The Xiphon has seemed to be well-received in terms of design. Stormraven wasn't.
If they wanted to do the Stormraven hybrids it would make more sense to redo the Stormraven at the same time and do a combo kit for both HH and 40k, or even remove the Stormraven alltogether and just have the hybrids in plastic. The Xyphon on the other hand needs something to intercept, which is why i personally do not think that it will released without some other plastic flyers. Plastic Thunderhawk is a near-certainity at some point, so i think they'll do some of the other flyers in the same time window, perhaps even in a themed season.
Whilst I agree with you, lets all just take a moment and consider how much things have changed...
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
A plastic Storm Eagle/Fire Raptor would also go together correctly without the need for an advanced engineering degree.
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Post by: Gadzilla666
H.B.M.C. wrote:A plastic Storm Eagle/Fire Raptor would also go together correctly without the need for an advanced engineering degree.
Yeah. Resin kits don't usually bother me, but the Storm Eagle/Fire Raptor kits' reputation has always steered me away from them. A plastic kit would be nice.
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Post by: Jadenim
H.B.M.C. wrote:A plastic Storm Eagle/Fire Raptor would also go together correctly without the need for an advanced engineering degree.
I know someone with an advanced engineering degree who bought a Storm Eagle. It didn’t help…
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Post by: JamesY
I built a fire raptor. It wasn't as bad as people had said. It wasn't fun, it was stressful, and having to use lots of elastic bands to create the appropriate consistent pressure down a long tube of four separate sides and multi-piece panels whilst araldite sets, knowing that if anything shifts the whole thing could fold in on itself and become unusable really wasn't fun, but it wasn't too bad...
I would love a plastic one though as it is a stunning model, and the worst of the pain was soon forgotten.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Storm Eagle kit: "Build a straight square box out of these 4 bananas"
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Post by: JamesY
One of my mates who works at gw was offered a free storm eagle recently. He said no. He still doesn't know what he did to upset them.
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Post by: Racerguy180
Thoughts on the new "campaign" book?
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Post by: JWBS
Hoping and expecting it will be substantially cheaper than FW black books. If so, it's about as good as a book reveal can be (ie substantially worse than a miniature reveal, unless the mini reveal is another tank, and the tank isn't a Fellblade). As to the contents of the book, obviously speculation, but I imagine as a non-wargamer it's a book I'll buy, which is an endorsement.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
Sounds fine, but disappointing that they didnt reveal any models during the stream or even do a HH Thursday post.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
I like that we will be getting ZM rules in book form and hopefully expanded upon.
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Post by: SamusDrake
Sounds like a good book to have, and certainly far more needed than yet another tank.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
I’ve more Zone Mortalis terrain, courtesy of Necromunda stashed in my boudoir and under my fartsack than you can shake a stick at.
I’m well up for that. Spesh as it brings a very distinct flavour to the game in terms of tactical nous and list building.
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Post by: Breotan
That was my experience. Also having two identical parts being a full centimeter different in length led to an adventure with customer service.
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Post by: deleted20250424
The Caestus Assault Ram wasn't ever a peach either.
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Post by: Breotan
After my experience with the Storm Eagle and seeing others have bad times with large kits, I will only order small stuff from them. Less shrinkage and shorter curing time mitigates Forge World's lack of quality control.
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Post by: JWBS
I think it's mostly about large flat planes, eg a Porphyrion is no problem but I wouldn't even attempt a FW baneblade.
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Post by: drbored
Suddenly, a ton of tanks have been removed from the FW site. The various Superheavies and the Arquitor.
So... more tanks incoming, but this time bigger.
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Post by: Racerguy180
Yeah, large flat(especially thin for its area) pieces are probably one of the worst things to cast out of resin.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
That’s the Legion Arquitors gone from the Webstore.
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Post by: boyd
No falchions either. Looks like some big tanks on the horizon.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
I hope the bit about other Knights being made into plastic ties into this next wave of Armour. Maybe the next Black Book could be Tallarn and cover a lot of Armoured Spearhead stuff?
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Post by: zedmeister
And the Deimos command rhino, the Damocles, has gone
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
The Damocles could be repacked as a conversion kit with the plastic Deimos Rhino.
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Post by: stahly
PLASTIC FELLBLADE / GLAIVE / FALCHION ...
...
...
sponsons.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/30/heresy-thursday-old-tanks-learn-new-tricks/
At least we get some fantastic new paint jobs to marvel at.
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Post by: zedmeister
Actually, looks like they're re-working the hulls so they can make use of the plastic sponsons...
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Boooo. It’s resin with plakky sponsons.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
I doubt the prices will drop either. What a waste.
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Post by: tneva82
So much for plastlc mastodon.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
If they are doing the Damocles as a upgrade to the plastic kit, why not do the same for the 3 Sicaran turret variants too?
I never expected a plastic Mastadon, but I was excited at the thought of plastic Fellblade or Javelin.
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Post by: Scottywan82
Everyone: "Enough! No more plastic tanks!"
*Monkey's Paw curls one finger*
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Post by: Matrindur
Well that was one of the most disappointing HH-Thurdays
If they are recutting them none of them will be available in plastic anytime soon.
Mastodon isn't much of a surprise, Fellblade versions and Arquitor is disappointing but especially the Javelin is really sad
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Post by: Shadow Walker
More tanks but resin. What a dissapointment.
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Post by: xttz
With them covering 8 vehicles at once doesn't this mean the tanks are now basically done though?
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Post by: Shadow Walker
 xttz wrote:
With them covering 8 vehicles at once doesn't this mean the tanks are now basically done though?
You mean them staying resin? Highly probable. It could mean that we will get some infantry in plastic because of that.
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Post by: zedmeister
 Shadow Walker wrote: xttz wrote:
With them covering 8 vehicles at once doesn't this mean the tanks are now basically done though?
You mean them staying resin? Highly probable. It could mean that we will get some infantry in plastic because of that.
Or the limited Specialist Games plastics capability is being used for something else...?
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Post by: Shadow Walker
zedmeister wrote: Shadow Walker wrote: xttz wrote:
With them covering 8 vehicles at once doesn't this mean the tanks are now basically done though?
You mean them staying resin? Highly probable. It could mean that we will get some infantry in plastic because of that.
Or the limited Specialist Games plastics capability is being used for something else...?
Do I hear Epic?
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Post by: xttz
zedmeister wrote:
Or the limited Specialist Games plastics capability is being used for something else...?
More tanks... but at 25% the size!
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Post by: zedmeister
Shadow Walker wrote:Do I hear Epic?
xttz wrote:More tanks... but at 25% the size!
Oh man, if only. I just know these hopes are going to be crushed though...
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Post by: Alpharius
Will the Glaive/Fellblade/Falchion now use the Kratos hull?
Probably not, but...I don't want a big resin Forgeworld tank ever again!
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Post by: Not Online!!!
So javelin remains unafordable... Good , what a waste of time and effort
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Post by: tauist
Something's off. I thought the plan was to port all the generic Legiones Astartes kits to plastic?
My intuition tells me this was still in the cards in 2022, but something has happened in the board rooms, and 2023 is starting to look like "back to HH 1.0 level of support" is back on table.. Making room for what? 10th Edition 40K? Epic? Something else? I mean, first we get CC resin upgrade and now more updated generic Legion resin kits?
I don't like this at all tbh, it's pointing towards plastic assault infantry becoming available next year at the earliest.. Unless they are reprioritizing kit releases so that all plastic vehicle releases get postponed and plastic infantry gets closer to release in the manufacturing cue?
One off the cuff take: GW didn't expect for HH2 launch to be as successful as it was, and with 10th edition just around the corner, they want to make damn sure that HH2 doesn't overshadow the launch of #New40K.. so intentionally cripple the game by keeping assault infantry and some vehicles in resin, and launch Epic HH instead, so at least if that one sells well, the 8mm scale will not threaten the other 28mm flagships?
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Post by: The Phazer
It's definitely a bit of a shame this suggests a plastic Javelin isn't coming soon.
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Post by: Geifer
zedmeister wrote:Shadow Walker wrote:Do I hear Epic?
xttz wrote:More tanks... but at 25% the size!
Oh man, if only. I just know these hopes are going to be crushed though...
Forge World is bound to need a good bit of plastic budget for The Old World. We know it's coming and we know they're making new plastic models for it. No idea if they'll also throw out some Epic, but at this stage Old World has to be far enough along for manufacturing.
But hey, maybe GW throws you a bone and still puts out this close combat Marines. They did say more plastic infantry is in the pipeline, after all.
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Post by: beast_gts
We know the new warehouse opening has not gone to plan and their new IT systems still aren't working properly, so it might be they're pushing stuff back to give themselves breathing space.
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Post by: Not Online!!!
tauist wrote:Something's off. I thought the plan was to port all the generic Legiones Astartes kits to plastic?
My intuition tells me this was still in the cards in 2022, but something has happened in the board rooms, and 2023 is starting to look like "back to HH 1.0 level of support" is back on table.. Making room for what? 10th Edition 40K? Epic? Something else? I mean, first we get CC resin upgrade and now more updated generic Legion resin kits?
I don't like this at all tbh, it's pointing towards plastic assault infantry becoming available next year at the earliest.. Unless they are reprioritizing kit releases so that all plastic vehicle releases get postponed and plastic infantry gets closer to release in the manufacturing cue?
chances are their logistics are so fethed and their production so behind that they finally had to see reason and prioritise. I know for a fact that a lot of HH stuff is scarcely delivered and a lot of 40k stuff also aswell locally.
The issue beeing that they will probably prioritise 40k far more, and especially marines at that, and 10th HAS to be this summer because of course GW is certainly reprioritising reccuring revenue.
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Post by: xttz
tauist wrote:Something's off. I thought the plan was to port all the generic Legiones Astartes kits to plastic?
My intuition tells me this was still in the cards in 2022, but something has happened in the board rooms, and 2023 is starting to look like "back to HH 1.0 level of support" is back on table.. Making room for what? 10th Edition 40K? Epic? Something else? I mean, first we get CC resin upgrade and now more updated generic Legion resin kits?
I don't like this at all tbh, it's pointing towards plastic assault infantry becoming available next year at the earliest.. Unless they are reprioritizing kit releases so that all plastic vehicle releases get postponed and plastic infantry gets closer to release in the manufacturing cue?
beast_gts wrote:We know the new warehouse opening has not gone to plan and their new IT systems still aren't working properly, so it might be they're pushing stuff back to give themselves breathing space.
I'm pretty sure WarCom said that "many" general purpose kits would move to plastic, but didn't say all of them would.
These design & production decisions are made months or years in advance of any public announcements, so it's unlikely the current warehouse situation has anything to do with it. Most likely they just assume that these units won't sell in enough volume to justify major plastic kits.
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Post by: Strg Alt
I will never buy resin tanks from Forge World. More money saved for the upcoming Epic game at the end of the year.
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Post by: tauist
 Strg Alt wrote:I will never buy resin tanks from Forge World. More money saved for the upcoming Epic game at the end of the year.
It's possible that a relaunched Epic HH might not be entirely plastic either..
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
It's disappointing that these kits are not going to come out in plastic immediately, but I can see some reasoning for FW. The sponson sprues themselves are already created, and cost maybe a couple cents. Tossing them in the kit lets them replace 10-20 small resin pieces with plastic versions that have more options and far better quality control. As for the kits, the mounts exist as CAD assets already for the plastic kits, and should be relatively easy to move over to the CAD files for the FW vehicles.
It wouldn't be the first stopgap hybrid kit either- After the Baneblade plastic kit came out, there were the Arkurian pattern conversion kits, with the Shadowsword and Stormsword being absorbed into the plastic Shadowsword kit when it released, and the Stormblade being modified to mount the blastgun to the plastic shadowsword hull ranter than be a full upper hull replacement set.
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Post by: ImAGeek
Shame because I probably would have bought most of these in plastic, but won’t in resin.
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Post by: tneva82
tauist wrote:Something's off. I thought the plan was to port all the generic Legiones Astartes kits to plastic?
That was players hope.
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Post by: Alpharius
ImAGeek wrote:Shame because I probably would have bought most of these in plastic, but won’t in resin.
Same here - and I suspect this also holds true for many, many others too.
FW resin tanks are too expensive and too ridiculous to wrestle into shape to build oftentimes.
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Post by: Snord
I see this a bit differently. I had thought that pushing these vehicles to plastic would have been a pretty massive investment - I wasn’t convinced that it made sense. So it’s actually encouraging that they just got a makeover. The Javelin is a bit more worrying, as I was convinced it was going to make the transition. Anyway, this seems neutral to me insofar as where we stand with plastic infantry.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
 Alpharius wrote: ImAGeek wrote:Shame because I probably would have bought most of these in plastic, but won’t in resin.
Same here - and I suspect this also holds true for many, many others too.
FW resin tanks are too expensive and too ridiculous to wrestle into shape to build oftentimes.
Even if the price was right and the casting reasonable to good? I will always hate working with resin kits.
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Post by: Alpharius
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Alpharius wrote: ImAGeek wrote:Shame because I probably would have bought most of these in plastic, but won’t in resin.
Same here - and I suspect this also holds true for many, many others too.
FW resin tanks are too expensive and too ridiculous to wrestle into shape to build oftentimes.
Even if the price was right and the casting reasonable to good? I will always hate working with resin kits.
You're...not wrong!
Resin puts off a lot of people as well, for various reasons, and will always limit the growth of a game to a measurable degree.
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Post by: Siegfriedfr
Not sure why people were hoping for huge HH kits to go plastic, they are the reason for forgeworld existing in the first place.
Landspeeder however, that's a real blow.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
No. They're going to go up. Scottywan82 wrote:Everyone: "Enough! No more plastic tanks!" *Monkey's Paw curls one finger*
Yeah they really are just taking the piss at this point. I keep telling people to be careful what they wish for.
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Post by: Sotahullu
Ugh... Javelin was that one kit I hoped to be plastic as soon as possible. 
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I'm surprised about the Fellblade (and it's cousins). The others are either obscure (the smaller artillery thing) or so large that they're basically the entire purview of FW (the Mastadon), but the Fellblade?
That seems absolutely ripe for the change to plastic. It's a big centrepiece, and it's the Space Marine super heavy. I'm surprised it wasn't one of the first releases in the opening salvo of releases.
The fact that we're getting/have already got the Typhon and Cerberus but not a Fellblade just doesn't make sense, other than the fact that they share sprues.
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Post by: JWBS
"Superheavies are the reason for FW to exist" argument makes no sense. You're effectively saying we don't want a calculator because that's the job of the abacus. /Edit - to expand, because I know that some will take this the wrong way "Making superheavies in plastic will make FW redundant so it can't happen" is like saying "Making a calculator will make the abacus redundant so Casio abacus corporation can't make their new calculators".
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Post by: Sgt. Cortez
H.B.M.C. wrote:I'm surprised about the Fellblade (and it's cousins). The others are either obscure (the smaller artillery thing) or so large that they're basically the entire purview of FW (the Mastadon), but the Fellblade?
That seems absolutely ripe for the change to plastic. It's a big centrepiece, and it's the Space Marine super heavy. I'm surprised it wasn't one of the first releases in the opening salvo of releases.
The fact that we're getting/have already got the Typhon and Cerberus but not a Fellblade just doesn't make sense, other than the fact that they share sprues.
FW might see the Kratos in that role now or at least wants it to be there. Kind of like a baseline Marine superheavy to also make people buy that already bought Fellblades and stuff.
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Post by: tneva82
JWBS wrote:"Superheavies are the reason for FW to exist" argument makes no sense. You're effectively saying we don't want a calculator because that's the job of the abacus. /Edit - to expand, because I know that some will take this the wrong way "Making superheavies in plastic will make FW redundant so it can't happen" is like saying "Making a calculator will make the abacus redundant so Casio abacus corporation can't make their new calculators".
Fw is way to make kits profitably is the point.
Sure if gw is in for charity everything to plastic.
But last time i checked gw is not for charity but profit.
If gw projects sales not exceed certain point resin is more profitable.
And gw aims to go for most profitable route.
Is it possible they made mistake? Yes. Gw isn't infallible. They also have more data at hand and guys whose job is to make these decision. So odds are better they are more accurate than random internet guys.
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Post by: Siegfriedfr
JWBS wrote:"Superheavies are the reason for FW to exist" argument makes no sense. You're effectively saying we don't want a calculator because that's the job of the abacus. /Edit - to expand, because I know that some will take this the wrong way "Making superheavies in plastic will make FW redundant so it can't happen" is like saying "Making a calculator will make the abacus redundant so Casio abacus corporation can't make their new calculators".
We should probably ask GW directly, altho i guess the answer is high projected sales = plastic.
I think the fellblade is too niche to become a plastic kit, just like specialist necromunda characters are niche and therefore resin.
Also, i think those super large kits were a mistake to begin with ; they create expectations from players who can't use them because they are 1) too expensive 2) terrible kits to build, but they have rules and anyone rich enough to buy them and patient enough to build them will one day field them against you, and you probably won't have what it takes to take them down. Plastic flyers in 40K are the equivalent of FW superheavies : they don't belong on the tabletop for various gameplay-related reasons, but GW needed new outlets for players' wallets.
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Post by: Dysartes
tneva82 wrote:JWBS wrote:"Superheavies are the reason for FW to exist" argument makes no sense. You're effectively saying we don't want a calculator because that's the job of the abacus. /Edit - to expand, because I know that some will take this the wrong way "Making superheavies in plastic will make FW redundant so it can't happen" is like saying "Making a calculator will make the abacus redundant so Casio abacus corporation can't make their new calculators".
Fw is way to make kits profitably is the point.
Sure if gw is in for charity everything to plastic.
But last time i checked gw is not for charity but profit.
Aren't you the poster who is normally claiming that GW wants to get as much out of FW resin into plastic as possible, as it'll make more profit?
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Post by: JWBS
There's loads of FW kits that can be made more profitable if moved over to plastic, there's loads that can't. Fellblade is 100% in the more profitable category.
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Post by: tneva82
Dysartes wrote:tneva82 wrote:JWBS wrote:"Superheavies are the reason for FW to exist" argument makes no sense. You're effectively saying we don't want a calculator because that's the job of the abacus. /Edit - to expand, because I know that some will take this the wrong way "Making superheavies in plastic will make FW redundant so it can't happen" is like saying "Making a calculator will make the abacus redundant so Casio abacus corporation can't make their new calculators".
Fw is way to make kits profitably is the point.
Sure if gw is in for charity everything to plastic.
But last time i checked gw is not for charity but profit.
Aren't you the poster who is normally claiming that GW wants to get as much out of FW resin into plastic as possible, as it'll make more profit?
No. I'm saying they want to sell their plastlc kits.
Newsflash: they have tons of kits to sell already.
If they can sell 1 plastic kit foi 1000 units it's better than 2 plastic kit for 500 each.
Basic...elementary...school...math. you should try it sometime
Nyt every kit will sell same time and just because you make 10xkits(=10 times expenses for gw) doesn't mean you sell 10xboxes.
Just because you make mastodon plastic doesn"t mean you sell enough to make it profitable on it's own. Nevermind making more profit than selling more marine kits they already have.
Next time apply reading comprehension and basic math. Saves your and my time. Having to explain this simple thing is boring waste of time since any english speaker should be able to figure it out without me having to spell it.
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Post by: Fayric
I really appreciate GW doing this, It provide some much needed closure, and people can hopefully move on faster.
I think it will be great to see other stuff than tanks. Supposing they dont slow down HH releases for a while.
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Post by: drbored
 Fayric wrote:I really appreciate GW doing this, It provide some much needed closure, and people can hopefully move on faster.
I think it will be great to see other stuff than tanks. Supposing they dont slow down HH releases for a while.
Yeah, the info and closure is much appreciated, that's for sure.
Still praying for a plastic javelin, but I think this is due to GW forecasting that 30k might not have sold as well as they thought. Still hope in the future, but it may not be for a few years yet.
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Post by: Dysartes
If 30k isn't selling as well as they thought, I can think of 3 possibilities:
1, Their predictions were pants-on-head stupid
B, People haven't been able to get hold of the kits they want thanks to the warehouse issues
iii, Kits people want to buy haven't been made yet (Breachers/Assault troops/Despoilers), so they haven't spent money on them.
None of those are the fault of the game itself, merely GW's approach to supporting the game (or wider GW issues).
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
I don't understand why people are writing off HH because of this. It would have been nice to get these kits in full plastic soon, but for now it is a very low effort required move to add a few options and probably save some money by GW. There was mentions of more plastic infantry coming, and a rumor of some Knights moving over to plastic. A Cerastus Knight kit and variants could eat some of the big vehicle HH release budget for now.
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Post by: Voss
Snord wrote:I see this a bit differently. I had thought that pushing these vehicles to plastic would have been a pretty massive investment - I wasn’t convinced that it made sense. So it’s actually encouraging that they just got a makeover. The Javelin is a bit more worrying, as I was convinced it was going to make the transition. Anyway, this seems neutral to me insofar as where we stand with plastic infantry.
I'm a little more positive- it gets a lot of stuff out of the way of infantry at once, and several of these kits likely make economic sense not to do in plastic.
I just think that because they rattled off a lot at once, there's a lot of disappointment that various specific favorites didn't make the jump (with a lot of people with differing favorites) Of course some of it is also some people being absolutely certain that some models were very obviously definitely gonna move to plastic because they said so, and oops, turns out they aren't.
Personally, I'm happy to move on. I can bang out a radar dish if I really want one (or raid the bits box), and the rest.. meh. I'm a little surprised at the javelin, but that's about it.
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Post by: Siegfriedfr
Dysartes wrote:If 30k isn't selling as well as they thought, I can think of 3 possibilities:
1, Their predictions were pants-on-head stupid
B, People haven't been able to get hold of the kits they want thanks to the warehouse issues
iii, Kits people want to buy haven't been made yet (Breachers/Assault troops/Despoilers), so they haven't spent money on them.
None of those are the fault of the game itself, merely GW's approach to supporting the game (or wider GW issues).
Definitely iii, as long as there is no visibility regarding plastic infantry choice, HH seems like a risky investment.
I don't care about super heavies not making the cut to plastic, but the Javelin is a very bad (and unexpected) move.
I understand their approach to drawn out release for HH as , as they want people to slowly spend their money, but the tanks focus for the last few months was a really poor marketing move.
Hopefully the Cthonia book will be accompanied by Assault and Breacher troops, which are the really glaringly missing elements of the plastic range.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Dysartes wrote:If 30k isn't selling as well as they thought, I can think of 3 possibilities:
1, Their predictions were pants-on-head stupid
B, People haven't been able to get hold of the kits they want thanks to the warehouse issues
iii, Kits people want to buy haven't been made yet (Breachers/Assault troops/Despoilers), so they haven't spent money on them.
None of those are the fault of the game itself, merely GW's approach to supporting the game (or wider GW issues).
The only thing suggestive that Heresy isn’t selling seems to be wishful thinking.
Not calling anyone out here, but those making the claims seem really, really vested in it being the case.
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Post by: Strg Alt
MajorWesJanson wrote:I don't understand why people are writing off HH because of this. It would have been nice to get these kits in full plastic soon, but for now it is a very low effort required move to add a few options and probably save some money by GW. There was mentions of more plastic infantry coming, and a rumor of some Knights moving over to plastic. A Cerastus Knight kit and variants could eat some of the big vehicle HH release budget for now.
I on the other hand can understand it very well. It is the same procedure when the Old World blew up and the AoS crowd taunted the Warhammer players: Pure pettiness.
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Post by: morganfreeman
Scottywan82 wrote:Everyone: "Enough! No more plastic tanks!"
*Monkey's Paw curls one finger*
As someone who largely wasn't interested in the tanks, this is fine. We got a majority of the vehicle range in plastic with just a few stand outs - the really big buys - now in resin. No problem.
If anything, them taking a wide-swing and hitting so many kits at once gives me hope. Feels like the sort of thing they'd get "out of the way" now that they want to move onto other things, such as infantry. Primarily because the previous release rate would've definitely drawn every single piece of this out into an individual release.
I guess the following weeks will tell for sure.
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Post by: drbored
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Dysartes wrote:If 30k isn't selling as well as they thought, I can think of 3 possibilities:
1, Their predictions were pants-on-head stupid
B, People haven't been able to get hold of the kits they want thanks to the warehouse issues
iii, Kits people want to buy haven't been made yet (Breachers/Assault troops/Despoilers), so they haven't spent money on them.
None of those are the fault of the game itself, merely GW's approach to supporting the game (or wider GW issues).
The only thing suggestive that Heresy isn’t selling seems to be wishful thinking.
Not calling anyone out here, but those making the claims seem really, really vested in it being the case.
I think once again people misinterpreted what I said...
I suggested that their FORECASTING of how well 30k WOULD sell was off.
This would explain the resin upgrade for the despoilers, the Javelins not moving to plastic, and the otherwise slow release for plastic troop options. These things have been designed for a long time, because we know that GW work years in advance of the release of models.
Someone, a couple years ago, said "hey, maybe we should slow down on the full plastic. If these things don't sell well, it'll be egg on our face" and a few people said "ok, so what should we keep resin?" and they picked a couple things that they figured wouldn't sell well YEARS IN THE FUTURE and went with that.
Are things different now? Yeah, probably, especially considering how often things have been sold out and haven't made it back into stock, or are only in stock for short periods of time. Is it too late to change those forecasts from years ago? Dunno, tough to say. We still haven't gotten quite a few things in plastic, but getting some of these half-measures as of late has me a little concerned for the future. Or maybe GW is just getting the half-resin half-arsed half-measures out of the way to make room for the stuff people have been waiting for.
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Post by: deleted20250424
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Dysartes wrote:If 30k isn't selling as well as they thought, I can think of 3 possibilities:
1, Their predictions were pants-on-head stupid
B, People haven't been able to get hold of the kits they want thanks to the warehouse issues
iii, Kits people want to buy haven't been made yet (Breachers/Assault troops/Despoilers), so they haven't spent money on them.
None of those are the fault of the game itself, merely GW's approach to supporting the game (or wider GW issues).
The only thing suggestive that Heresy isn’t selling seems to be wishful thinking.
Not calling anyone out here, but those making the claims seem really, really vested in it being the case.
My anecdotal evidence is that I sell a lot more Painted HH armies than I do Painted 40k Armies.
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Post by: JWBS
People can get a feel of what's happening in terms of sales. How their scene is. How difficult it is to find an item (my personal measure. I can't get my 40k stuff, can get my Heresy stuff), what people are saying in their online bubbles. It's all totally subjective though and lacking most of the data needed for even very tepid confirmation - units produced, local variation, sales expectation, production / distribution problems beyond GW control etc etc.
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Post by: Racerguy180
Everyone locally complains about availability of plastics.
The non-FW forgeworlds are working day/night on the other hand....
I still prefer official stuff, but at this point imma bout to say "fuggggittttt"
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Post by: morganfreeman
Racerguy180 wrote:Everyone locally complains about availability of plastics.
The non- FW forgeworlds are working day/night on the other hand....
I still prefer official stuff, but at this point imma bout to say "fuggggittttt"
Do it. GW dropped the ball hard, and the 3rd party market is infinitely better. More options covering damn near everything you want, and all competitive with the price point GW set of $80 for 20 guys.
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Post by: Racerguy180
I have a Saturn 8k that I've been waiting to grab a wash/cure station for and start using.
So I'm 90% there...
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Post by: JWBS
How does an 8k compare to a 4k? (Mars or one of the other popular 4k)
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Post by: Racerguy180
Dunno, haven't used it yet
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Post by: Gadzilla666
Well, at least they're getting through them quickly, and not bogging down Heresy Thursdays with them.
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Post by: boyd
IMHO, what makes a Legion, a Legion? The tanks or the marines? For me, it is the marines. They are the flavor of the Legion. Without the marine models, you can't make your Legion. Sure, everyone has bolter marines but when your Legion is known for jumping into combat you want Assault marines, you want despoiler, etc. when your Legion is known for void warfare, you want breachers too. The tanks are great, but are a big point investment in an army. The marine models are the bread and butter of your force.
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Post by: JWBS
I think April could potentially be a big month for HH, or a very disappointing one, especially with warhammerfest at the end. We now have all / almost all of the tanks. The way I see it they can release more tanks, but they'll be big the impressive stuff (great, very unlikely), they can start the infantry (great, idk how likely), they can fill the month with nonsense releases (terrible, likely), and then at warhammerfest they can do something really big like a new box or a range of small / intermediate boxes (great, idk how likely) or have it be a non-event for HH (terrible, idk how likely).
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Post by: morganfreeman
My personal prediction is that we’ll see a m6 despoiler or assault squad box around the drop of the new campaign book. I feel this way because the Cthonia book is introducing inductii as a unit for all legions, and it’d be in keeping with what is essentially a mass market cannon fodder squad to give give us a flexible box of foddery melee types. Which can be upgraded to be less foddery units with a power weapon upgrsde sprue.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see it come in a boxed set. Didn’t the Valbeck(sp), the guy whose source has been spot on for a few years, mention there was another HH boxed set with melee infantry coming this summer? Or am I off my rocker.
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Post by: Tsagualsa
I mean, you get 18 of them, so you just need a few legs and that's basically two entire squads of infantry right there 
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Post by: Kanluwen
Is anyone really surprised, given that they basically showed it off at Adepticon?
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Post by: Snord
More resin. They’re kind of ugly, too. I guess the SoH dude is okay, but a flag??
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Post by: RaptorusRex
Snord wrote:More resin. They’re kind of ugly, too. I guess the SoH dude is okay, but a flag??
Shades of Grizmund!
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Post by: Shadow Walker
No shoulder pads? But why...? Everyone knows they could shrink to fit any hatchway
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Post by: Not Online!!!
oh man
and here i was hoping for something that has actual substance and couldn't be done with normal kits already decent enough.
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Post by: Tsagualsa
Kanluwen wrote:Is anyone really surprised, given that they basically showed it off at Adepticon?
It confirms another Valrak rumour too.
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Post by: Theophony
Legion Hubcaps inbound.
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Post by: Tsagualsa
Legion Hubcaps, Legion Spinners, Legion underfloor lights, Legion sound-system (removed once people remarked it was actually useful for EC).
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Post by: The Phazer
They're surely not going to do those for each legion. Why are they not generic? Or at least loyalist/traitor?
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Post by: Tsagualsa
 The Phazer wrote:They're surely not going to do those for each legion. Why are they not generic? Or at least loyalist/traitor?
These two specific ones exist because they're representatives of the two Legions in the current campaign book. Presumably, with future campaign books, we'll get additional pairs of stuff like this.
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Post by: beast_gts
The Phazer wrote:They're surely not going to do those for each legion. Why are they not generic? Or at least loyalist/traitor?
WarCom wrote:Any Legion can take the Decurion Locus and Decurion Defensors. ... The two headline factions in The Siege of Cthonia each get their own unique Decurion miniatures – the Decurion Lanius for the Sons of Horus and the Decurion Sagittar for the Imperial Fists.
It sounds like there's 2 generic (that might share a model) and these 2 faction-locked ones for the campaign book.
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Post by: Matrindur
beast_gts wrote: The Phazer wrote:They're surely not going to do those for each legion. Why are they not generic? Or at least loyalist/traitor?
WarCom wrote:Any Legion can take the Decurion Locus and Decurion Defensors. ... The two headline factions in The Siege of Cthonia each get their own unique Decurion miniatures – the Decurion Lanius for the Sons of Horus and the Decurion Sagittar for the Imperial Fists.
It sounds like there's 2 generic (that might share a model) and these 2 faction-locked ones for the campaign book.
If there is another generic model they probably would have shown it today so I think only the IF/SoH versions get a model and you are supposed to use the ones included with the tanks or kitbash your own for the generic Decurions
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Post by: Kanluwen
I wouldn't be shocked if each of the Legions will get a special type of Decurion while the Tank Commanders from the actual kits are meant to be the generics.
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Post by: Tsagualsa
 Matrindur wrote:beast_gts wrote: The Phazer wrote:They're surely not going to do those for each legion. Why are they not generic? Or at least loyalist/traitor?
WarCom wrote:Any Legion can take the Decurion Locus and Decurion Defensors. ... The two headline factions in The Siege of Cthonia each get their own unique Decurion miniatures – the Decurion Lanius for the Sons of Horus and the Decurion Sagittar for the Imperial Fists.
It sounds like there's 2 generic (that might share a model) and these 2 faction-locked ones for the campaign book.
If there is a special generic model they probably would have shown it today so I think only the IF/SoH versions get a model and you are supposed to use the ones included with the tanks or kitbash your own for the generic Decurions
There's also the possibilities that future legion upgrade packs come with tank commander torsos or bits.
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Post by: Gert
It's not necessarily going to be Legion-specific tank commanders. Each book will likely add new consuls and named characters as was done in the past. For example, the Delegatus and Praevian were both originally Legion-specific models for the Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors.
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Post by: Strg Alt
More stuff from Forge World to ignore. 30K becomes more ridiculous as time goes by. We want Epic 30K now! Only eight month of waiting time left.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Ho boy. The Defensor's rules are outrageously terrible. If devs thought that was worth paying points for, we might as well call it quits now and only play with the stuff that's already out.
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Post by: morganfreeman
“Spend points and a reaction to double tap with your pintle mounted bolter!”
Glad to see the devs continuing to making vehicles utter garbage.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
A Sicaran Punisher with a Decurion and a pintle heavy bolter fires a net total of 12 shots less than a Sicaran Punisher without those things.
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Post by: Alpharius
lord_blackfang wrote:A Sicaran Punisher with a Decurion and a pintle heavy bolter fires a net total of 12 shots less than a Sicaran Punisher without those things.
Ouch!
When spelled out like that, it's rather brutal!
(Or less brutal, depending!)
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
lord_blackfang wrote:A Sicaran Punisher with a Decurion and a pintle heavy bolter fires a net total of 12 shots less than a Sicaran Punisher without those things.
So don’t mount him in a Sicaran Punisher?
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Post by: Fayric
So the upcoming campaign book have a distinct focus on tanks?
Makes sense now why they have been spamming plastic tanks to a game that should rely heavily on infantry.
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Post by: Gert
Considering one of the main features of this book is Zone Mortalis rules, not sure "distinct focus" is the right term.
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Post by: Lord Damocles
 Gert wrote:Considering one of the main features of this book is Zone Mortalis rules, not sure "distinct focus" is the right term.
Those rules are just to represent fighting inside tanks.
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Post by: Bobug
 morganfreeman wrote:“Spend points and a reaction to double tap with your pintle mounted bolter!”
Glad to see the devs continuing to making vehicles utter garbage.
Or you know, fire 8 multi melta shots and 80 volkite shots with your predator squadron
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Bobug wrote: morganfreeman wrote:“Spend points and a reaction to double tap with your pintle mounted bolter!”
Glad to see the devs continuing to making vehicles utter garbage.
Or you know, fire 8 multi melta shots and 80 volkite shots with your predator squadron
Or you know, read what the rule actually says.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
lord_blackfang wrote:Bobug wrote: morganfreeman wrote:“Spend points and a reaction to double tap with your pintle mounted bolter!” Glad to see the devs continuing to making vehicles utter garbage.
Or you know, fire 8 multi melta shots and 80 volkite shots with your predator squadron
Or you know, read what the rule actually says.
He'd get the volkite as they are defensive weapons and it says the unit which contains this model. A Predator Squadron is a unit, which contains the model. Is a predator the best place for a Character, probably not, but if he wants to.
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Post by: Rihgu
We don't know if the decurion can be attached to a multiple model squadron, do we? Could be like an Armoured Spearhead tank commander who has to take a squadron of 1.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
We dont know either way. It says a unit which contains this model. It makes me lean towards multivehicle squadrons.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
 VictorVonTzeentch wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:Bobug wrote: morganfreeman wrote:“Spend points and a reaction to double tap with your pintle mounted bolter!”
Glad to see the devs continuing to making vehicles utter garbage.
Or you know, fire 8 multi melta shots and 80 volkite shots with your predator squadron
Or you know, read what the rule actually says.
He'd get the volkite as they are defensive weapons and it says the unit which contains this model. A Predator Squadron is a unit, which contains the model. Is a predator the best place for a Character, probably not, but if he wants to.
It also says only the pintle weapons get double shots but what do I know.
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Post by: Platuan4th
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:We dont know either way. It says a unit which contains this model. It makes me lean towards multivehicle squadrons.
A single model is still a unit.
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Post by: Kanluwen
They don't usually give that wording though, do they?
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Post by: GaroRobe
Its probably been covered, but any theories on the IF model next week? They already have their praetor models and a few special characters.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
Leviathan Dread torso?
Also noticed the article calls out the Sicaran Punisher. Next plastic tank announcement?
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Post by: Kanluwen
GaroRobe wrote:Its probably been covered, but any theories on the IF model next week? They already have their praetor models and a few special characters.
Announcement of plastic Serfs kit, with IF upgrade frame bundled to start with.
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Post by: Gert
GaroRobe wrote:Its probably been covered, but any theories on the IF model next week? They already have their praetor models and a few special characters.
It'll be the named character from the book probably.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
MajorWesJanson wrote:Leviathan Dread torso?
Also noticed the article calls out the Sicaran Punisher. Next plastic tank announcement?
It's the only Sicaran variant with a top hatch.
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Post by: drbored
Kanluwen wrote:I wouldn't be shocked if each of the Legions will get a special type of Decurion while the Tank Commanders from the actual kits are meant to be the generics.
Yeah this is my expectation as well.
My expectation is also that it will take a very long time, some factions will get theirs really quickly and others will have to wait 3+ years for theirs.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
drbored wrote: Kanluwen wrote:I wouldn't be shocked if each of the Legions will get a special type of Decurion while the Tank Commanders from the actual kits are meant to be the generics.
Yeah this is my expectation as well.
My expectation is also that it will take a very long time, some factions will get theirs really quickly and others will have to wait 3+ years for theirs.
And that the Blood Angels and Dark Angels ones will look amazing, while the Iron Hands and Space wolves ones look like trash.
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Post by: Shakalooloo
Given Horus' love of the 'dreadful Sagittary', its weird that it's the IF dude that has that name, and not the SoH.
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Post by: Gadzilla666
Urrghhhh.....disapointing gw, disapointing. That's really all that I have to say.
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