What's can break the game if they don't fix the 2++ rerollable problem is the level 1 powers. If not screamer star/pinkstar will be busted by cursed earth. Multiple blocks of horrors is probably the way to go.
Cursed earth gives a 12" bubble of +1 to invo saves. It says it stacks with everything and doesn't say it can't stack with it's self.
Sacrifice will upgrade a horror to a lvl 2 Herald. Level 2 Tzeentch Heralds can only take Cursed Earth, Dark Flame (Garbage), Infernal Gaze(Garbage), and Sacrifice. So a new herald has a 75% chance of getting either cursed earth or Sacrifice.
Max herald pink star will start with an average of 4 cursed earths and 4 Sacrifice. Even at 3 and 3 they will boost the invo of multiple pink horror units up to a 2++ rerollable and spawn 4 more level 2 heralds with 2 more cursed earths and 2 more sacrifices. Turn 2 they get to attempt to sacrifice 6 horrors to gain 6 more heralds and the entire deamonic army has a 2++ invo that is rerollable for tzeentch deamons.
And thats asuming that the guy who does that, doesn't fail a single Psy test, or anything, wich with all those Psy-jibber-jabby going on is very unlikely.
Also do we know at what moment the Psy phase will happen?, after movement and before shooting like in battle?
or start of the turn?
I would say after movement phase, somply because you use the powers in the psy phase, but there is the witchfire powers, now if there is a new rulling for withfire that says" you can use that shooting attack during the psy phase" and that the psy phase happens first before aby other phasen that would be weird and prodlematic no?
So i guess that the Psy phase is just after movement and before shooting.
In this cas, the powers says " create units of..." not," they player can deploy units using DS" or something.
Its a free interpretation of this, and i might be 100% dead wrong, but how i see it, you use the power in the psy phase, you then add this extra unit to your army, but because nowhere it says that they arrive on the table, you then must place them in reserves and they will be available for the next turn, wich, in insight seems also weird...
But this would prohibite the Summoning are Summoning problem, after all if the units you conjured arrive only the next turn, they can't do anything.
Dunno if my explanation is clear, i lack some sleep...
Accolade wrote: Also probably Sisters, I doubt they're even referenced so by default we'll have to assume they're no faction.
It'll be a 400 page + book and they still might not mention SOB. I'll be surprised if they do.
(Maybe a random chart will mention them if we're lucky.)
I don't think Heralds will be able to get Malefic, it will probably only be Greater and Daemon Princes. It's to easy to abuse that. I also think they'll limit how many summons you can do a turn but that doesn't matter that much.
Even if the power pool works the way you think it does, once you start summoning Pink Horrors that have Psychic Brotherhood and count as a ML1 and Heralds the game becomes broken.
If you have 4 Heralds at Level 3, that is 12 Rolls on the chart in order to get Sacrifice or the Greater Demon. You can additionally add a Fateweaver and 2 Additional Demon Princes then fill out the rest of the army with Pink Horrors for maximum Psychic Mastery. 1 Fateweaver or Lord of Change w/ 2 Daemon Princes w/ Wings and ML2 brings along with 4 Heralds brings the points up to around 1200, then you just Max out as many Pink Horrors as you can possibly get to get the mastery level up. At minimum you'll have something like 23 + D6 power pool if it works that way.
After the first turn you successfully get 2 more Lvl 2 Heralds and 3 more squads of Pink Horrors by Turn 3 onward the game functionally breaks. Because with each successive wave of MLs you get more and more Power pool dice and more and more ways to summon more Daemons. Then your initial Heralds that are level 3 who have the ability to can turn into Greater Daemons. Basically on a 4+ with 3 rolls on the chart, you get a chance to turn into a Greater Daemon. That's uh... broken.
It's why they have to have something in the game that says " if you fail to do this X happens, " or they limit the number of times you can cast a spell etc.. etc..
Slayer le boucher wrote: And thats asuming that the guy who does that, doesn't fail a single Psy test, or anything, wich with all those Psy-jibber-jabby going on is very unlikely.
Also do we know at what moment the Psy phase will happen?, after movement and before shooting like in battle?
or start of the turn?
I would say after movement phase, somply because you use the powers in the psy phase, but there is the witchfire powers, now if there is a new rulling for withfire that says" you can use that shooting attack during the psy phase" and that the psy phase happens first before aby other phasen that would be weird and prodlematic no?
So i guess that the Psy phase is just after movement and before shooting.
In this cas, the powers says " create units of..." not," they player can deploy units using DS" or something.
Its a free interpretation of this, and i might be 100% dead wrong, but how i see it, you use the power in the psy phase, you then add this extra unit to your army, but because nowhere it says that they arrive on the table, you then must place them in reserves and they will be available for the next turn, wich, in insight seems also weird...
But this would prohibite the Summoning are Summoning problem, after all if the units you conjured arrive only the next turn, they can't do anything.
Dunno if my explanation is clear, i lack some sleep...
In WHFB you can only ever have one of each spell in the army, no duplicate spells. So that would also stop the "summonings are now summonings" like you desribed.
If you can still take mutiples of the same pyschic powers, then you have issues.Or even a "You can't cast the same pyschic power twice in the same pyschic phase"
I'm going to go ahead and jump onto the nope train straight to F***thatville.
Unbound Lists? Is 9 Leman Russes, 3 Predators, 3 Landraiders ect. not enough that we need armies of Riptides and Baneblades? I'm just going to take 8 Thunderbolts against your horde armies, it will be fun. No... no it will not.
Psychic phase, is Fantasy really dying so horribly that they are just going to incorporate its specialties into 40k? Pretty soon we will all be forming up our horde armies onto movement trays so we can just get the movement phase over with so we can consume the enemy by the hundreds with fireballs from our eyes and bolts of lightning out of GWs arse.
Ruberu wrote: I'm going to go ahead and jump onto the nope train straight to F***thatville.
Unbound Lists? Is 9 Leman Russes, 3 Predators, 3 Landraiders ect. not enough that we need armies of Riptides and Baneblades? I'm just going to take 8 Thunderbolts against your horde armies, it will be fun. No... no it will not.
Psychic phase, is Fantasy really dying so horribly that they are just going to incorporate its specialties into 40k? Pretty soon we will all be forming up our horde armies onto movement trays so we can just get the movement phase over with so we can consume the enemy by the hundreds with fireballs from our eyes and bolts of lightning out of GWs arse.
In sticking with 4th and 5th ed.
Just curious, do you have folks to play 4th and 5th with?
I don't think they'll make it so that you can only cast one power a turn. That'd kind of seriously screw over Tyranid players, Eldar, and especially Chaos Daemons who have access to only 1 chart.
It'd also make it so that you'd be able to take every possible power from each psychic discipline.
I do. Most of my friends stopped playing 6th and went back to the older versions. Thats all we do now. I'm the only one that has the faith that a newer better version will come out.
Slayer le boucher wrote: And thats asuming that the guy who does that, doesn't fail a single Psy test, or anything, wich with all those Psy-jibber-jabby going on is very unlikely.
Also do we know at what moment the Psy phase will happen?, after movement and before shooting like in battle?
or start of the turn?
I would say after movement phase, somply because you use the powers in the psy phase, but there is the witchfire powers, now if there is a new rulling for withfire that says" you can use that shooting attack during the psy phase" and that the psy phase happens first before aby other phasen that would be weird and prodlematic no?
So i guess that the Psy phase is just after movement and before shooting.
In this cas, the powers says " create units of..." not," they player can deploy units using DS" or something.
Its a free interpretation of this, and i might be 100% dead wrong, but how i see it, you use the power in the psy phase, you then add this extra unit to your army, but because nowhere it says that they arrive on the table, you then must place them in reserves and they will be available for the next turn, wich, in insight seems also weird...
But this would prohibite the Summoning are Summoning problem, after all if the units you conjured arrive only the next turn, they can't do anything.
Dunno if my explanation is clear, i lack some sleep...
In WHFB you can only ever have one of each spell in the army, no duplicate spells. So that would also stop the "summonings are now summonings" like you desribed.
If you can still take mutiples of the same pyschic powers, then you have issues.Or even a "You can't cast the same pyschic power twice in the same pyschic phase"
Except primary spells I learnt the other day. Although I am very new to Fantasy. You can cast the spell as many times as you want as long as its from different mages.
Hollismason wrote: I don't think they'll make it so that you can only cast one power a turn. That'd kind of seriously screw over Tyranid players, Eldar, and especially Chaos Daemons who have access to only 1 chart.
It'd also make it so that you'd be able to take every possible power from each psychic discipline.
Jetseer star and Screamer Star getting taken down a notch is a bad thing? lol
H.B.M.C. wrote: Again the point sails blissfully over your head Kan.
If you want me to address your "point", here you go:
Do you really think that actually having to talk to your opponent before playing a game is a bad thing? How many people do you think play without ever talking to their opponent before they meet for a game?
I talk to my opponent.
Not just at the start of the game either, it has been known, on the odd occasion, for me to talk to my opponent for the whole battle!!!1!
I have no issue with this.
Issues may start to arise, not all the time, but sometimes, when I have to agree with my opponent about the appropriate way to play the game. When you have two opposing, but equally valid, viewpoints, both supported by the rules, and two players who may only have one chance to play a game once in a while, why is it fair that one or the other should compromise their enjoyment for the other person's?
That's actually a good point Azrael.
Personally? I think if it gets to that point, setting up a rotation of "This game we do it the way I want to do it, then next game we do it the way you want to" would not be out of the question.
Few problems with that:
1) You are again assuming that the only games are ones between people that play each other on a regular basis.
2) This could work if there was only 1 or 2 issues to be resolved this way
3) There are some of these that are major enough to affect how you design your lists.... hard to just 'change' that.
4) Now you have added a butt-ton of paperwork to keep track and remember all of the rule adaptations, and when you played them last, and how you will play them next time... yay... that sounds like fun.
Slayer le boucher wrote: And thats asuming that the guy who does that, doesn't fail a single Psy test, or anything, wich with all those Psy-jibber-jabby going on is very unlikely.
Also do we know at what moment the Psy phase will happen?, after movement and before shooting like in battle?
or start of the turn?
I would say after movement phase, somply because you use the powers in the psy phase, but there is the witchfire powers, now if there is a new rulling for withfire that says" you can use that shooting attack during the psy phase" and that the psy phase happens first before aby other phasen that would be weird and prodlematic no?
So i guess that the Psy phase is just after movement and before shooting.
In this cas, the powers says " create units of..." not," they player can deploy units using DS" or something.
Its a free interpretation of this, and i might be 100% dead wrong, but how i see it, you use the power in the psy phase, you then add this extra unit to your army, but because nowhere it says that they arrive on the table, you then must place them in reserves and they will be available for the next turn, wich, in insight seems also weird...
But this would prohibite the Summoning are Summoning problem, after all if the units you conjured arrive only the next turn, they can't do anything.
Dunno if my explanation is clear, i lack some sleep...
In WHFB you can only ever have one of each spell in the army, no duplicate spells. So that would also stop the "summonings are now summonings" like you desribed.
If you can still take mutiples of the same pyschic powers, then you have issues.Or even a "You can't cast the same pyschic power twice in the same pyschic phase"
Except primary spells I learnt the other day. Although I am very new to Fantasy. You can cast the spell as many times as you want as long as its from different mages.
Thats just primary ones though.
In fantsey, only one person can know a spell in the army. So if you have two lv.3 wizards drawing from the same lore. when the 2nd wizard rolls for his powers, none of his can be repeats of the 1st wizard's powers and re-rolls untill he get's a new spell.
You can case the same power twice with bound spells.
I just took a spelling pill so excuse the spelling mistakes, or if maby i'm getting something mixed up.
edit: (Wait, by primary, do you mean Signature spells?)
You can use the primary spells multiple times, but the rest of the spells are once a turn. So Wyssands can be cast for each Wizard in your force, but comet of cassandra can only be cast once regardless of how many wizards have it.
Not looking to debate though... but there is the exception.
Sorry yes, signature spells... as I said im pretty new haha
rigeld2 wrote: Remember the WD that said everyone gets Knights?
No. I remember people misreading a piece of text to mean that, though.
Yeah, silly people reading "any primary detachment" and thinking they actually meant "any". HAH! I mean, what fools those people are.
Of course they meant "something other than any".
*Yaawwnn**Blink**Blink* What is this? Hopefully reads 150 pages...
Whaa? Is it truly 7th ed already?
That's a bit early. Jeez, I predicted 6th ed would be a colossal failure and went into hibernation to wait it out but things must have screwed up beyond my worst predictions for it to have a 2 year lifespan.
That's what GW gets when they bring in things like FMC, Flyerspam, Hull points, Challenges, Overly exploitable Allies Matrix, Keeping Kill Points(instead of returning to victory points), Made DE a one year codex, and a Staggering amount of Rules Bloat.
Oh well, let's see what GW has done to fix the issues that made 6th ed the biggest flop in franchise history.
Did they fix:
FMC- Nope, looks like they made it worse
Flyerspam- Nope, Also worse with unbound lists.
Hull Points- From what has been posted, Still there and possibly even more unbalanced.
Challenges-??? No mention yet
Allies Matrix- Rumors say is still there but has been changed to punish the Tau. Hey Tau, Welcome to the DE one year codex club.
Way to go GW
Kill Points- Look to be still there. Yay for min maxing! Smh
DE Fixed- Maybe...maybe not.
Rules Bloat- Nope, instead it looks like they doubled down. 7th ed looks to be the windows vista of the 40k editions.
Ok, Things look stupidly grim. Maybe GW did something with the codex and rules releases in the past 2 years that help correct these problems.
Lets see:
DA codex- Nope, Almost feel sorry for DA players. GW treats them almost as bad as SoB and xenos.
Chaos Codex- Nope, should have been named "Codex: Enter The Helldrake"
Sisters of Battle- Poor poor sisters
Tau- Nope, broke the Tau into peices so that they can never be a stand alone army. Also removed Tau long range anti-heavy tank just in time for 7th ed scoring spammed land raiders. Thought the worst thing was the intrduction of the Crap-tides(op rules made these an auto include).
Farsight Enclave- $50 US for 3 pages to make Tau play like they are supposed to. Unfortunately, also create Crap-tide spam list.
Eldar- Pretty much got them right...ok GW thats one out of how many??
Iyanden Supplement- $50 US for a MC special character and a lot of reprinted puctures.
IG/AM- Decent, Ok GW has a second good base codex.
Escalation- WTFudge?? Really??
Imperial Knights- Seriously, WTFudge
Stronghold Assault- The quest for cash continues
Also, in this timeframe GW finally went on record as saying that the FW models designed and rules oriented for the Imperial Armour games were now legal in 40k.
And 7th ed looks to only make these problems worse. If true I can only look on the bright side....I had planned for a 4 yr break with 6th ed. At the rate GW is going, in another 2 years there will be 8th ed and it will only have been my originally planned 4 year hiatus. Of course, by that time, my friends and I will be playing a homebrew 15mm version of an "improved" 5th ed.
I know it is early for the doom and gloom but if GW did nothing to fix what has driven away so much of the player base, heaping more rules bloat and slowing the game down more won't help it. Also think that the worst thing about 6th is how it has really splintered the player base. So much so that I am unsure if 40k will recover even if it gets a top notch balanced ruleset that is free.
rigeld2 wrote: Remember the WD that said everyone gets Knights?
No. I remember people misreading a piece of text to mean that, though.
Yeah, silly people reading "any primary detachment" and thinking they actually meant "any". HAH! I mean, what fools those people are.
Of course they meant "something other than any".
Ruberu wrote: I'm going to go ahead and jump onto the nope train straight to F***thatville.
Unbound Lists? Is 9 Leman Russes, 3 Predators, 3 Landraiders ect. not enough that we need armies of Riptides and Baneblades? I'm just going to take 8 Thunderbolts against your horde armies, it will be fun. No... no it will not.
Psychic phase, is Fantasy really dying so horribly that they are just going to incorporate its specialties into 40k? Pretty soon we will all be forming up our horde armies onto movement trays so we can just get the movement phase over with so we can consume the enemy by the hundreds with fireballs from our eyes and bolts of lightning out of GWs arse.
In sticking with 4th and 5th ed.
Just curious, do you have folks to play 4th and 5th with?
Hate the new edition, but don't want to give up the addiction?
Its called "Oldhammer", and the numbers playing it swell with every new edition released.
If you can't find anyone, just put up a notice in your FLGS and people will find you.
Just don't try to put one up in a GW store because they will hunt you down and suck every cent from your soul for the blasphemy.
Alabastar clown wrote:
Hate the new edition, but don't want to give up the addiction?
Its called "Oldhammer", and the numbers playing it swell with every new edition released.
If you can't find anyone, just put up a notice in your FLGS and people will find you.
Just don't try to put one up in a GW store because they will hunt you down and suck every cent from your soul for the blasphemy.
Have to admit that I am currently suffering a fair bit of guilt for those I have introduced to the game that bought a copy of 6th ed.
I like that casting scheme on a 4+. And they match in dice. Also that jink save thing is pretty awesome as well as pretty much everything so far. I am even more excited now
Also, in this timeframe GW finally went on record as saying that the FW models designed and rules oriented for the Imperial Armour games were now legal in 40k.
I'm fine with this for HH armies.
I'm going to slow build one.
Just need to work out if will do Sons of Horus, Space Wolves (dark grey paint job FTW) or 1K sons...
I know it is early for the doom and gloom but if GW did nothing to fix what has driven away so much of the player base, heaping more rules bloat and slowing the game down more won't help it. Also think that the worst thing about 6th is how it has really splintered the player base. So much so that I am unsure if 40k will recover even if it gets a top notch balanced ruleset that is free.
Agree with the rules bloat point, which I think is a much bigger issue for 40k than balance. However personally I'm a fan of stuff like Escalation, Knight Titans and being able to use big Forge World models.
The biggest thing that has supposedly 'split' the 40k playerbase is the notion that it is ok for people to refuse to play against things they consider OP even though they are in the rules, and to ignore rules that they consider spoil the game. If everyone plays the rules as given, there's no split. I wonder if those who, for example, refuse to play against Knight Titans, also refuse to follow rules in other tabletop games they play?
I know it is early for the doom and gloom but if GW did nothing to fix what has driven away so much of the player base, heaping more rules bloat and slowing the game down more won't help it. Also think that the worst thing about 6th is how it has really splintered the player base. So much so that I am unsure if 40k will recover even if it gets a top notch balanced ruleset that is free.
Agree with the rules bloat point, which I think is a much bigger issue for 40k than balance. However personally I'm a fan of stuff like Escalation, Knight Titans and being able to use big Forge World models.
The biggest thing that has supposedly 'split' the 40k playerbase is the notion that it is ok for people to refuse to play against things they consider OP even though they are in the rules, and to ignore rules that they consider spoil the game. If everyone plays the rules as given, there's no split. I wonder if those who, for example, refuse to play against Knight Titans, also refuse to follow rules in other tabletop games they play?
This problem of the split in the playerbase was caused by the rules bloat.
The rules bloat is caused by GW trying to make 40k a game of everything in order to cash in on sales.
The problem with 40k trying to be a game of everything is that by attempting such, GW created a fractured ruleset that sets separate and widely contradicting games under one umbrella rule set.
GW could have made flyers a stand alone game or 40k supplement. Same goes for allies, escalation, apoc*ough coughimeanunboundand* andsome other things .
If published as separate (read optional) aspects of the game I think there would not be the problem we have now. I also feel more players would be interested in playing such when they didn't feel strong-armed into aspects of the game they feel should be optional.
By codifying these supplemental rules in the core book GW created the opportunity for conflicting expectations in the playerbase. This is why I lay the blame for much of the rancor within our gaming community at the feet of GW.
I know it is early for the doom and gloom but if GW did nothing to fix what has driven away so much of the player base, heaping more rules bloat and slowing the game down more won't help it. Also think that the worst thing about 6th is how it has really splintered the player base. So much so that I am unsure if 40k will recover even if it gets a top notch balanced ruleset that is free.
Agree with the rules bloat point, which I think is a much bigger issue for 40k than balance. However personally I'm a fan of stuff like Escalation, Knight Titans and being able to use big Forge World models.
The biggest thing that has supposedly 'split' the 40k playerbase is the notion that it is ok for people to refuse to play against things they consider OP even though they are in the rules, and to ignore rules that they consider spoil the game. If everyone plays the rules as given, there's no split. I wonder if those who, for example, refuse to play against Knight Titans, also refuse to follow rules in other tabletop games they play?
Maybe they don't want to play versions of the game that they consider unfun. Why would they wast three hours playing a game they don't consider to be fun? They don't refuse games or houserule just for the joy of being rebals or whatever your mind's come up with. They do it because they love the game but the current incarnation is sometimes not fun. Fun, the main reason for playing a game.
I really enjoyed 6th a lot, at least when playing around my circles. Never experienced any of the troubling things, though I'm not trying to argue that they weren't troubling.
And overall, this new edition looks like the sort of 40k I would enjoy. Not very pleased that its arrived so quickly though, so I'm in a bit of a split mind right now.
Hollismason wrote: I don't think they'll make it so that you can only cast one power a turn. That'd kind of seriously screw over Tyranid players, Eldar, and especially Chaos Daemons who have access to only 1 chart.
It'd also make it so that you'd be able to take every possible power from each psychic discipline.
Jetseer star and Screamer Star getting taken down a notch is a bad thing? lol
But at what cost? If a spell can only be casted by an army once, it absolutely ruins several armies. Want to play a Tzeentch themed army? Can't do it because the only way to use Pink Horrors is spamming their Primaris. It would make it meaningless to field a Tzeentch army. Yes, it might doom two broken lists but it does it at the cost of ruining codices.
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jackblg wrote: I personally am looking forward to 7th edition, new stuff is always fun and gives me something new to figure out.
Everyone always dos this before something comes out "its gona be so broken ZOMG NO WAYZ" ect.. I just play and have fun.
I've gotten over kneejerk and gotten to the wibbly wobbly I can't tell if I'm liking or disliking this all I can say is I wish they would have waited a bit longer.
Slaanesh-Devotee wrote: I really enjoyed 6th a lot, at least when playing around my circles. Never experienced any of the troubling things, though I'm not trying to argue that they weren't troubling.
And overall, this new edition looks like the sort of 40k I would enjoy. Not very pleased that its arrived so quickly though, so I'm in a bit of a split mind right now.
That's cool. I don't think any of us who had problems with 6th ed denied that some enjoyed this edition.
Our point was that we did not like it and are concerned over the future of the game. That if GW keeps driving away core players, the game will fail and die off.
The game dying off isn't hyperbole. It is the very real recegnition that the biggest reason for many to play the game is its market penetration. That up until recently, there was not another tabletop game that you could find opponents to play in every major city.
Basically, as the number of active 40k players decreases...so does the last strong reason for new or current players to invest in the game.
This is why we ask for a clear, balanced, focused and streamlined core rule set. Focus on the basics to draw in new players then sell them the optional luxury stuff after you get them hooked.
jackblg wrote: I personally am looking forward to 7th edition, new stuff is always fun and gives me something new to figure out.
Everyone always dos this before something comes out "its gona be so broken ZOMG NO WAYZ" ect.. I just play and have fun.
Honestly, at this point before the release of 6th edition, most of the current problems with 6th had been identified. People were building lists around Heldrakes, Riptides and Waveserpents as soon as their stats were leaked. This forum has a bunch of intelligent people essentially being encouraged to find the most broken combinations possible; it shouldn't be any wonder that we are able to from only a few leaked bits of information.
I guarantee that on release day for 7th all the major non-codex issues which persist all the way to 8th edition will be found and exploited.
Honestly, at this point before the release of 6th edition, most of the current problems with 6th had been identified. People were building lists around Heldrakes, Riptides and Waveserpents as soon as their stats were leaked.
Not by my memory. At this point with 6th we still knew nothing and were guessing at what the picture on the spines of the WD was. At this point in 6th only one of your examples even existed and Eldar were not good at that point. People were not building anything at this point with 6th. We know more now than we did with 6th because there were not as many rules back in the old WD.
People are not coming up with "the most broken combinations possible". They are coming up with combinations like all wraithknight forces, which won't work, or all Imp Knight forces, which already exist, and declaring it the worst thing in the world.
IMO the rules look good at the moment. There seems to be very good reasons to take battle forged and hopefully the psychic powers phase will balance some of the nonsense that has been going on with death stars and powers like warp quake, and things like GKs and Inquisitors being rather OP with psychic powers at the moment.
FYI 6th is MORE balanced than 5th aka necrons and grey knights
Necrons were balanced in 5th, 6th made them OP GK were OP in 5th, 6th toned them down
6th also made many meh armies worse
6th looked good (or, at least, didn't look terrible) in the beginning for the most part but as time went on it just became more and more broken...
Mainly because of FaQs and new Codexes, but still...
Mij'aan wrote: Did I miss something after last night? A lot of posts to trawl through and I'm at work...
Check the OP - basically there's a handful of rulebook snippets covering FOCs and some of the new Daemonology powers.
Nah, I saw all that last night. Just wondered if anything else had been leaked since. Cheers anyway.
Some one said on page 141 or so that they had some rules things from their rep that make a lot of sense in the context of things.
Is it the stuff that's been added to the first post? If so, I've seen it. Otherwise, I'll check it out. (The internet is so slow where I work, i don't wanna search through posts unnecessarily haha - Which is funny because I work for an ISP )
If the Jinx rule rumour is correct Necron Annihilation barges just got a buff. Move 12 - Claim a jink of 4+ And roll for 6's to get the snapshot hit and the Tesla hits at the same time. Also get a reroll of all the dice that missed a 6 with twin linked.
If the Jinx rule rumour is correct Necron Annihilation barges just got a buff. Move 12 - Claim a jink of 4+ And roll for 6's to get the snapshot hit and the Tesla hits at the same time. Also get a reroll of all the dice that missed a 6 with twin linked.
Even if it is correct, there may be other rules and circumstances that could change how it works. Adding that Jink rumour to how 6th edition currently works makes it seem buffed up. But let's see what else has changed. I don't want to have any more reasons to dislike Necrons
If the Jinx rule rumour is correct Necron Annihilation barges just got a buff. Move 12 - Claim a jink of 4+ And roll for 6's to get the snapshot hit and the Tesla hits at the same time. Also get a reroll of all the dice that missed a 6 with twin linked.
Huh? It still reduces the number of hits you score...how is that a buff...
If the Jinx rule rumour is correct Necron Annihilation barges just got a buff. Move 12 - Claim a jink of 4+ And roll for 6's to get the snapshot hit and the Tesla hits at the same time. Also get a reroll of all the dice that missed a 6 with twin linked.
Huh? It still reduces the number of hits you score...how is that a buff...
I hope we can buy the books in separate and that each individual book is cheaper than the current rulebook, that would be a nice way of buying just what you like, ex: just the rules.
DiceDH wrote: The Jinx is a buff and the Barge is actually more effective with snap shooting. When you roll a 6 the hit Tesla's giving you an auto 2 more hits.
I do not think either of those words mean what you think they mean.
Was ninjad Still will leave it here if someone wants.
DiceDH wrote: The Jinx is a buff and the Barge is actually more effective with snap shooting. When you roll a 6 the hit Tesla's giving you an auto 2 more hits.
Jink save will be now optional an it will cost - we had that for free in 6th.
As far as the math goes you will get more hits with regular BS than on snap shots
TL BS4: (you loose jink)
16.6% chance for getting 3 hits via tesla rule (dice roll of 6)
50% chance for getting 1 hit (dice rolls 3, 4 or 5)
5.5% chance for getting 3 hits via tesla rule on twin linked weapon (dice roll of 6)
16.6% chance for getting 1 hit on twin linked weapon (dice rolls 3, 4 or 5)
5.3 hits if you fire 4 shots
TL snap shots: (you gain jink)
16.6% chance for getting 3 hits via tesla rule (dice roll of 6)
13.8% chance for getting 3 hits via tesla rule on twin linked weapon (dice roll of 6)
Davor wrote: Saw this on The Tyranid Hive.Thanks Nameless Didn't see this posted so sorry if I missed it.
It's on page 141 to 143 somewhere
The "newest dump" was in reference to coredump who hadn't seen them yet.
Thank you. Funny Dakka never put me to those pages. When I clicked on next unread post it brought me to page 148. That would explain why I missed it. Seems like I missed 5 or so pages.
So, can we safely say that the Farseerstar is history?
That demon summoning galore will really be possible? Since you only get a 65% chance to summon them with 6 dices and 20% chance to peril while at it i don't think that will happen.
Seems like getting multiple psions is greatly discouraged, even a single lvl 3 psion will find it hard to cast 3 lvl 1 powers.
So, can we safely say that the Farseerstar is history?
That demon summoning galore will really be possible? Since you only get a 65% chance to summon them with 6 dices and 20% chance to peril while at it i don't think that will happen.
Seems like getting multiple psions is greatly discouraged, even a single lvl 3 psion will find it hard to cast 3 lvl 1 powers.
I'm hoping as Tzeentch Daemons have a +3 LD for casting powers that they end up with passing rolls on a 3+ or something. Unless LD is required to cast somewhere it is unlikely to be applicable in the new edition.
Along side the new rulebook, I'm looking forward to seeing the massive Errata that will have to be released alongside this.
Spoletta wrote: Same is valid for the shadow in the warp, roll success on 5+ maybe?
Indeed, hadn't thought about that. Or maybe rather than affecting the result of the dice maybe similar rules will affect the number of dice to succeed. Tzeentch Daemons pass on a WC3 on 2 successes, Shadows in the Warp make it 4 Successes etc.
Also the likes of Collar of Khorne and the Necron Gloom Prism. These will all need updates with the new phase.
Also Adamantium Will and if that will apply during the counter spell or will apply in some other manner.
Sorry for the rampant speculation here, should we take this to a new thread?
All I know is, as a Tyranid player I feel left out.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mij'aan wrote: According to this image Dark Vengeance is going to be updated to contain the new rules?
That is good to know. I always wanted to buy another DV box set next year once I finished my first one. Just love the minis, glad to know they will not be going away anytime soon.
Dark Vengeance The Dark Vengeance box
set currently contains a
copy of the rules from
the last edition of
Warhammer 40 000 -
rest assured that in the
near future this will be
updated to contain the
new edition of The Rules
Stay tuned to White
Dwarf for news on this
exciting development.
Alex C wrote: I still wonder if the DV rulebook will be complete rules for 7th, or watered down...
The tiny red box (From now on called TRD) seems to say that DV will stay and will get an updated version of "The Rules".
Yes, but will the DV rulebook be a complete copy of "the rules", or a watered down version that's missing stuff in order to give people a reason to buy the big rulebook separately?
Yes, but will the DV rulebook be a complete copy of "the rules", or a watered down version that's missing stuff in order to give people a reason to buy the big rulebook separately?
Hopefully the former. I'd be all over that.
An Updated version of "The Rules" implys it will be just as it is at the moment, but updated.
Clearly no-one will buy the current 6th edition Dark VEngeance now so GW will probably recall them and change the rule book. It would be a smart move to have the revised version on sale from the 24th May.
FLGS Owner wrote:Ooo.. just got my sales info in for 7th Edition. Obviously can't talk about it, but the prices is exceptionally reasonable for what you get.
Kilkrazy wrote: Clearly no-one will buy the current 6th edition Dark VEngeance now so GW will probably recall them and change the rule book. It would be a smart move to have the revised version on sale from the 24th May.
The smart thing would be to send a new mini rulebook for all non-sold boxes to GW and FLGSs, less shipping and manpower.
Ok, I'm kind of confused about one thing in the article posted above. The second paragraph begins with "For more than three decades, Warhammer 40,000 has been the setting...."
I was under the impression that 40K came out in 1987, which is less than three decades. Am I mistaken, or is the author of the article mistaken?
FLGS Owner wrote:Ooo.. just got my sales info in for 7th Edition. Obviously can't talk about it, but the prices is exceptionally reasonable for what you get.
Maybe there is hope?
Yeah he'd need to define reasonable. Reasonable being completely subjective; for me $25-30 for the rules only would be reasonable but I doubt that'll be an option.
I wonder with the nerf to Psyker powers and Jink will seer council even be good anymore? Lots of Deny the witch with harder to cast powers from warlocks and snapshots after Jink saving? Guess there is no reason to have singing spears anymore when witchblades are the same stats melee wise. Although this will make the jetbikes armor save of 3+ with hopefully adding the warlock power to give them another +1 armor save for a 2+ more useful assuming you can get the power off but still makes them vulnerable to AP2 shooting. I think this just makes them less of a shooty unit and more dedicated assault with chances to cast powers and get denied from here on.
Saldiven wrote: Ok, I'm kind of confused about one thing in the article posted above. The second paragraph begins with "For more than three decades, Warhammer 40,000 has been the setting...."
I was under the impression that 40K came out in 1987, which is less than three decades. Am I mistaken, or is the author of the article mistaken?
Yeah, I noticed that too, the author fails at math.
Saldiven wrote: Ok, I'm kind of confused about one thing in the article posted above. The second paragraph begins with "For more than three decades, Warhammer 40,000 has been the setting...."
I was under the impression that 40K came out in 1987, which is less than three decades. Am I mistaken, or is the author of the article mistaken?
Yeah, I noticed that too, the author fails at math.
When forging a narrative, three decades sounds more epic.
Saldiven wrote: Ok, I'm kind of confused about one thing in the article posted above. The second paragraph begins with "For more than three decades, Warhammer 40,000 has been the setting...."
I was under the impression that 40K came out in 1987, which is less than three decades. Am I mistaken, or is the author of the article mistaken?
Yeah, I noticed that too, the author fails at math.
Maybe he is thinking that 40K came out when GW was made or at least thought when Fantasy came out, that 40K was out at the same time as Fantasy. Since GW is what over 30 years old now, he is just mistaken.
tetrisphreak wrote: The "whats new today" for today is just how to paint ents. Was hoping for another JJ video.
With there being 3 videos total (when watching it on Youtube the current one shows up as "1/3" in the description) I'm betting on it being a MWF sort of thing.
Spoletta wrote: So, can we safely say that the Farseerstar is history?
That demon summoning galore will really be possible? Since you only get a 65% chance to summon them with 6 dices and 20% chance to peril while at it i don't think that will happen.
Seems like getting multiple psions is greatly discouraged, even a single lvl 3 psion will find it hard to cast 3 lvl 1 powers.
The Herald summoning power costs only 1 WC... 4 dice is enough to cast it quite successfully (I'd use 3, at most). After summoning so many of them, you can spend the 4th turn bringing lots of Troops (not scoring, though) and some Greater Daemons
40K radio (who seem to be the only really reliable rumour source at the moment) always has 7th down as a book only update,
so no new starter
the orks/blood angels rumour is from other far less reliable sources (and has also shown up as an ork/blood angel revival of epic too)
so we'll have to wait and see
although to me the effort involved in actually recalling DV box sets from stores to insert the new rules suggests no new starter box any time soon.
It would not surprise me if GW wants to have the starter box disconnected from the main rule book, as it would be a good way of keeping interest high 'mid cycle',
and give them time to gather sales data on what force would benefit most from fighting the obligatory SM too (either to boost an army flagging due to the new rules, or to be able to choose the most popular Xenos to optimised sales)
FLGS Owner wrote:Ooo.. just got my sales info in for 7th Edition. Obviously can't talk about it, but the prices is exceptionally reasonable for what you get.
Maybe there is hope?
The online shop my gamer group orders from lists the rulebook as: presumably containing 3 books.
Price for German Edition: 65 EUR (6th ED BRB was 60 EUR, so not much difference)
So, it seems like a bundle, maybe Fluff, Rules and... idk... Missions?
So you could sell the other 2 books and only keep the Rules.
Mij'aan wrote: Aye I thought we were under the assumption there was a Blood Angels - Ork starter set coming out following the new release.
I wonder how innacurate this is now. It seemed pretty nailed on earlier.
Presumably you have been reading stuff from Faeit and/or BoLS.
Don't do that again.
Actually a GW staff member told one of my friends about it - My only assumption is that he's a lying sht or GW are going to hold back that release while they sell off remaining DV boxes.
...My friend is probably the lying sht here. I'll kick him when I see him next.
FLGS Owner wrote:Ooo.. just got my sales info in for 7th Edition. Obviously can't talk about it, but the prices is exceptionally reasonable for what you get.
Maybe there is hope?
The online shop my gamer group orders from lists the rulebook as: presumably containing 3 books.
Price for German Edition: 65 EUR (6th ED BRB was 60 EUR, so not much difference)
So, it seems like a bundle, maybe Fluff, Rules and... idk... Missions?
So you could sell the other 2 books and only keep the Rules.
I'm guessing you missed the WDW scan from a few pages back, confirming everything you're speculating on?
I very much doubt there'll be much of a secondary market for anything other than the rules volume, as the majority of people looking for stuff like that will be explicitly because they already own most of the modelling/fluff stuff in previous volumes. If those books are substantially new, then the same people will just buy the whole set.
FLGS Owner wrote:Ooo.. just got my sales info in for 7th Edition. Obviously can't talk about it, but the prices is exceptionally reasonable for what you get.
Maybe there is hope?
The online shop my gamer group orders from lists the rulebook as: presumably containing 3 books.
Price for German Edition: 65 EUR (6th ED BRB was 60 EUR, so not much difference)
So, it seems like a bundle, maybe Fluff, Rules and... idk... Missions?
So you could sell the other 2 books and only keep the Rules.
DV box could be updated with the Rules part.
Yes, there are three books in a slipcase, but I don't think you'll really be able to sell just two of them when everyone is going to want the rules one the most. They explain the books here, in the second column:
Saldiven wrote: Ok, I'm kind of confused about one thing in the article posted above. The second paragraph begins with "For more than three decades, Warhammer 40,000 has been the setting...."
I was under the impression that 40K came out in 1987, which is less than three decades. Am I mistaken, or is the author of the article mistaken?
Yeah, I noticed that too, the author fails at math.
Maybe he is thinking that 40K came out when GW was made or at least thought when Fantasy came out, that 40K was out at the same time as Fantasy. Since GW is what over 30 years old now, he is just mistaken.
I figure that's probably the case. GW has been around for 35 or so years, but they started with WHFB as far as tabletop wargames were concerned. WH40K didn't come out until WHFB was already into its 3rd edition.
(I'm trying really hard to not be negative, but it's kind of sad that this made it to publication with this kind of obvious boo-boo.)
Mij'aan wrote: Aye I thought we were under the assumption there was a Blood Angels - Ork starter set coming out following the new release.
I wonder how innacurate this is now. It seemed pretty nailed on earlier.
Presumably you have been reading stuff from Faeit and/or BoLS.
Don't do that again.
Actually a GW staff member told one of my friends about it - My only assumption is that he's a lying sht or GW are going to hold back that release while they sell off remaining DV boxes.
...My friend is probably the lying sht here. I'll kick him when I see him next.
GW staffers get no more information than you do from GW (ie, nothing). Generally they find out about upcoming things through web rumors as well, if they bother trying to find out things at all. The Blood Angels/Orks rumor has been popular for a while, so the Redshirt probably heard about it online, and just repeated it.
Or as an opponent you play smart and save your dice to stop him from casting?
I do like how they have a built in diminishing returns for casters. The more casters you have sure you get more dice, but in general you are not getting enough additional dice to cast your spells.
For example: d6 and three mastery level 2s
So about 9 dice.
If it requires 2-3 dice to reliably get a warp charge 1 power off then you are going to only cast 3 powers a turn compared to 6 before. However if you have two mastery level twos than you are getting 7 dice to throw at 4 spells.
more than three decades is technically correct if you think of it as existing in the 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s ie it has existed for four decades, although not 30 years
cromagz wrote: more than three decades is technically correct if you think of it as existing in the 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s ie it has existed for four decades, although not 30 years
I.E The normal marketing hyperbole that every company uses when referring to how old anything is.
cromagz wrote: more than three decades is technically correct if you think of it as existing in the 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s ie it has existed for four decades, although not 30 years
Going by this logic, 40K has existed for a millennium. Has it?
angelofvengeance wrote: Looks like there won't be a new starter box set after all from what I can tell in the bit about DV. Looks like the rumour guys were wrong on that one?
angelofvengeance wrote: Looks like there won't be a new starter box set after all from what I can tell in the bit about DV. Looks like the rumour guys were wrong on that one?
Just all the rumor guys that were expected to be wrong.
Well if you think about it the orks and BA rumor might be true. We all know 8th is only 2 years or less out and they need some trick up their sleeve to market it.
angelofvengeance wrote: Looks like there won't be a new starter box set after all from what I can tell in the bit about DV. Looks like the rumour guys were wrong on that one?
Just all the rumor guys that were expected to be wrong.
cromagz wrote: more than three decades is technically correct if you think of it as existing in the 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s ie it has existed for four decades, although not 30 years
Prepositions are important.
By your description, GW has existed in four decades, not for four decades.
I like the 3 book format...it's a nice 2nd edition touch. And functionally speaking, the 200 page rulebook means that I'll probably just lug that around instead of shelling out for the mini-rulebook down the road.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Well if you think about it the orks and BA rumor might be true. We all know 8th is only 2 years or less out and they need some trick up their sleeve to market it.
I wouldn't mind seeing a Mat Ward-less Blood Angels Codex lol
angelofvengeance wrote:I have to wonder where people get their information from at times..
Well, mostly from ignoring places like Bell of Lost Souls, Natfka, and Faeit 212.
Seriously. They accept any rumors and just post them, they do nothing to attempt to vet the rumors or track their history etc.
Mr.Church13 wrote:Well if you think about it the orks and BA rumor might be true. We all know 8th is only 2 years or less out and they need some trick up their sleeve to market it.
We know that, huh? Well I guess we should put you up on the rumor tracker then...
Mr.Church13 wrote: Well if you think about it the orks and BA rumor might be true. We all know 8th is only 2 years or less out and they need some trick up their sleeve to market it.
Are you kidding? It's only going to be a year! Haven't you listened to the internet?!
Mr.Church13 wrote: Well if you think about it the orks and BA rumor might be true. We all know 8th is only 2 years or less out and they need some trick up their sleeve to market it.
I wouldn't mind seeing a Mat Ward-less Blood Angels Codex lol
Give it to Kelly and they'll wear Blood Armour with Blood Grieves and Blood Boots and wield Blood Swords while using Blood Shields.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Well if you think about it the orks and BA rumor might be true. We all know 8th is only 2 years or less out and they need some trick up their sleeve to market it.
Are you kidding? It's only going to be a year! Haven't you listened to the internet?!
Lansirill wrote: So no unbound vs battle forged it looks like. Missed that on my first skim through the screen caps. That makes objective secured a little redundant unless they're changing the scoring system after all. That could be nice actually. Troops are great at scoring, but you can choose to mostly ignore them and use other units to score... I'd take it out on a second date.
You did miss it. Read the top line of the screen cap that details unbound armies. Specifically the bold section. "Both players need not use the same method."
Looking at it I only see "both players need ... use the same method." So I suppose nothing is really clear, since those ellipses could be either not or to. Either that, or I'm just not able to see the entire image for some reason.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Well if you think about it the orks and BA rumor might be true. We all know 8th is only 2 years or less out and they need some trick up their sleeve to market it.
Are you kidding? It's only going to be a year! Haven't you listened to the internet?!
A year!? Remeber, this is the "evil" GW. I expect a new edition in 6 months!
Mr.Church13 wrote: Well if you think about it the orks and BA rumor might be true. We all know 8th is only 2 years or less out and they need some trick up their sleeve to market it.
Are you kidding? It's only going to be a year! Haven't you listened to the internet?!
A year!? Remeber, this is the "evil" GW. I expect a new edition in 6 months!
Well it's all about building success. If two years sells well, then why not one?
Well one year sold well I bet they'd love six months!
Announcing the new Warhammer 40k weekly for $115 a week get the latest edition of 40k!
I wonder if the WD page with the shooting phase is detailed enough to be able to read it. It would be nice if the person that posted these pictures could provide a better picture of that part.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Well if you think about it the orks and BA rumor might be true. We all know 8th is only 2 years or less out and they need some trick up their sleeve to market it.
Are you kidding? It's only going to be a year! Haven't you listened to the internet?!
A year!? Remeber, this is the "evil" GW. I expect a new edition in 6 months!
Well it's all about building success. If two years sells well, then why not one?
Well one year sold well I bet they'd love six months!
Announcing the new Warhammer 40k weekly for $115 a week get the latest edition of 40k!
Wow! You're totally right! Think of all the money they'll make! I'm sure it's totally sustainable for the long run! And just think: no need for FAQs!
gorgon wrote: I like the 3 book format...it's a nice 2nd edition touch. And functionally speaking, the 200 page rulebook means that I'll probably just lug that around instead of shelling out for the mini-rulebook down the road.
I'm a dead tree fan, but I'm really leaning towards the interactive digi edition for this, purely based on how atrocious the layout and cross referencing is in the current book. I'm fed up with wanting to confirm a specific rule interaction and having to look at three different sections, or not being able to find a rule because it has been indexed under a different term than the one I'm looking for.
I do feel charging the same amount for these as the physical versions is a little questionable (assuming they do) but I think the added utility may be enough to convince me (plus I can get it on release day from my sofa)
gorgon wrote: I like the 3 book format...it's a nice 2nd edition touch. And functionally speaking, the 200 page rulebook means that I'll probably just lug that around instead of shelling out for the mini-rulebook down the road.
I'm a dead tree fan, but I'm really leaning towards the interactive digi edition for this, purely based on how atrocious the layout and cross referencing is in the current book. I'm fed up with wanting to confirm a specific rule interaction and having to look at three different sections, or not being able to find a rule because it has been indexed under a different term than the one I'm looking for.
I do feel charging the same amount for these as the physical versions is a little questionable (assuming they do) but I think the added utility may be enough to convince me (plus I can get it on release day from my sofa)
I really like the interactive format, but my kids and wife have the iPad 99.9% of the time. And I'm not buying another tablet for the cost of multiple gaming books just to hold gaming books. Otherwise, yeah, it'd be a good option.
cromagz wrote: more than three decades is technically correct if you think of it as existing in the 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s ie it has existed for four decades, although not 30 years
Going by this logic, 40K has existed for a millennium. Has it?
I really like the interactive format, but my kids and wife have the iPad 99.9% of the time. And I'm not buying another tablet for the cost of multiple gaming books just to hold gaming books. Otherwise, yeah, it'd be a good option.
gorgon wrote: I like the 3 book format...it's a nice 2nd edition touch. And functionally speaking, the 200 page rulebook means that I'll probably just lug that around instead of shelling out for the mini-rulebook down the road.
I'm a dead tree fan, but I'm really leaning towards the interactive digi edition for this, purely based on how atrocious the layout and cross referencing is in the current book. I'm fed up with wanting to confirm a specific rule interaction and having to look at three different sections, or not being able to find a rule because it has been indexed under a different term than the one I'm looking for.
I do feel charging the same amount for these as the physical versions is a little questionable (assuming they do) but I think the added utility may be enough to convince me (plus I can get it on release day from my sofa)
Plus they auto update. So all my dexes on my iPad will get the massive FAQ fix.
They're claiming some changes due to feedback... I really hope so.
Given the rumors regarding the new allies matrix i'd say that has a lot to do with it. No more Tau/Eldar or Tau/Space marines Battle Brother shenanigans, if we're to believe the rumor dump from yesterday.
I think the psychic phase needing 4+'s to cast spells is probably pretty legit - and it makes psychic powers overall more difficult to cast, which is probably a good thing. Now instead of near-guaranteed buffs, the options must be carefully weighed when deciding which powers to use, as well as the opponent knowing which powers need blocked the most.
As far as Shadow in the Warp goes for tyranids - lowering leadership by 3 is still a pretty good static ability, even if it would no longer affect psychic powers. Also if the deny the witch rumors are true (6+ for everyone, but psykers get bonuses to the dice based on their mastery level) then tyranids are still going to be a very difficult army to cast powers around with all the hive tyrants being ML2 or 3 (swarmlord) along with zoanthropes at ML2.
I'm eager to read more, I can't wait for some Hi-Def scans of the WD...or my own copy in a day or two.
I really like the interactive format, but my kids and wife have the iPad 99.9% of the time. And I'm not buying another tablet for the cost of multiple gaming books just to hold gaming books. Otherwise, yeah, it'd be a good option.
If Android Interactive was a bloody option...
It would be an option if GW could be bothered to dedicate the time and resources to it. But they can't. They just can't be bothered.
GuardStrider wrote: I am kind of surprised they didn't release a new set to get some extra money from the mini collectors.
That won't drop until next fiscal year and won't help this years bottom line.
The fact that they don't have a new set of models to run a new starter set is another indicator that this was a rush to get a new rule book out to affect sales and not a thought out release. I'm wondering how many(if any) differences there will be to the fluff and painting sections compared to 6th ed. It would be very easy to separate the three sections into different bindings and only make changes to the rules portion.
Kilkrazy wrote: Clearly no-one will buy the current 6th edition Dark VEngeance now so GW will probably recall them and change the rule book. It would be a smart move to have the revised version on sale from the 24th May.
The smart thing would be to send a new mini rulebook for all non-sold boxes to GW and FLGSs, less shipping and manpower.
That indeed would be easier. Just hand the customer the box and a book. Unless they want to recycle the old books, which may have some accounting value.
GuardStrider wrote: I am kind of surprised they didn't release a new set to get some extra money from the mini collectors.
That won't drop until next fiscal year and won't help this years bottom line.
The fact that they don't have a new set of models to run a new starter set is another indicator that this was a rush to get a new rule book out to affect sales and not a thought out release. I'm wondering how many(if any) differences there will be to the fluff and painting sections compared to 6th ed. It would be very easy to separate the three sections into different bindings and only make changes to the rules portion.
But the rules were "Gently Massaged" due to "gamer feedback" over "Thousands of games"!
Mr.Church13 wrote: Well if you think about it the orks and BA rumor might be true. We all know 8th is only 2 years or less out and they need some trick up their sleeve to market it.
Are you kidding? It's only going to be a year! Haven't you listened to the internet?!
A year!? Remeber, this is the "evil" GW. I expect a new edition in 6 months!
Well it's all about building success. If two years sells well, then why not one?
Well one year sold well I bet they'd love six months!
Announcing the new Warhammer 40k weekly for $115 a week get the latest edition of 40k!
Wow! You're totally right! Think of all the money they'll make! I'm sure it's totally sustainable for the long run! And just think: no need for FAQs!
Hang on.. They could throw in a daily FAQ update at an additional subscription fee. ...Then price up points in codices incorrectly, so that they need the FAQ to play properly!
I do feel charging the same amount for these as the physical versions is a little questionable (assuming they do) but I think the added utility may be enough to convince me (plus I can get it on release day from my sofa)
To be fair the the e-book versions are cheaper and the ipad enhanced versions do add allot of content for the same price. Personally I think it is worth it.
I really like the interactive format, but my kids and wife have the iPad 99.9% of the time. And I'm not buying another tablet for the cost of multiple gaming books just to hold gaming books. Otherwise, yeah, it'd be a good option.
If Android Interactive was a bloody option...
It would be an option if GW could be bothered to dedicate the time and resources to it. But they can't. They just can't be bothered.
Android can be a monumental PITA to create for as it is so fragmented. I'm not surprised they don't. If something works on an iPhone 5 it will also work on an iPad 2. If something works ona Google Nexus there is no garentee it will work on a Saumsung S5. On top of that Apple make interactive books easy (And GW have won awards for theirs). Android makes it very hard. GW obviously don't think there is money in it, otherwise they would do it.
I do feel charging the same amount for these as the physical versions is a little questionable (assuming they do) but I think the added utility may be enough to convince me (plus I can get it on release day from my sofa)
I've tried to find the article, but I can't - but anyways I read a good piece on eBook pricing last year. The census from the publishing industry is "Well the book was still written and the author still needs paying. As do we"
I agree with them. Sure, they're not printing and binding but we're paying for the convenience of having all this lovely content immediately to hand. And if it's supported with updates after purchase - BONUS!
Also, odddly enough, you pay VAT on Ebooks but not on 'real'books.
I do feel charging the same amount for these as the physical versions is a little questionable (assuming they do) but I think the added utility may be enough to convince me (plus I can get it on release day from my sofa)
"Well the book was still written and the author still needs paying. As do we"
Try to ask them how much of the actual price goes to the author
Charging the same price for digital content as for the printed version is a plain rip-off as the publisher saves a LOT of money whereas you, as a customer, get the same product.
tetrisphreak wrote: As far as Shadow in the Warp goes for tyranids - lowering leadership by 3 is still a pretty good static ability, even if it would no longer affect psychic powers. Also if the deny the witch rumors are true (6+ for everyone, but psykers get bonuses to the dice based on their mastery level) then tyranids are still going to be a very difficult army to cast powers around with all the hive tyrants being ML2 or 3 (swarmlord) along with zoanthropes at ML2.
I do feel charging the same amount for these as the physical versions is a little questionable (assuming they do) but I think the added utility may be enough to convince me (plus I can get it on release day from my sofa)
I've tried to find the article, but I can't - but anyways I read a good piece on eBook pricing last year. The census from the publishing industry is "Well the book was still written and the author still needs paying. As do we"
I agree with them. Sure, they're not printing and binding but we're paying for the convenience of having all this lovely content immediately to hand. And if it's supported with updates after purchase - BONUS!
Also, odddly enough, you pay VAT on Ebooks but not on 'real'books.
You pay VAT on everything GW does, it's built into their prices.
Well looking over the last 20-50 pages I had a few thoughts.
Unbound: Yes for Fluffy Players this will be great.
Now you can now Run Space Marine Companies properly.
>1st Company all Terminators or Sternguard/Vanguard
>8th Company all Assault Squads
>9th Company all Devastators
>All Dreadnaught Armies
>Space Marine Armored Companies
Space Wolves: >Wolf Guard Army without needing to take Logan
>Thunderwolf/Fenrisian Wolf army without having to take Canis
>All Biker Army [Wolf Guard on bikes/Swiftclaws]
Imperial Guard >All Tank Armies
>All Rough Rider Armies
Grey Knights >All Paladin Armies without Draigo
>All Purifier Armies without Crowe
Yes I know there are those out there who will take the most broken Cheese Filled WAAC List possible, but I don’t think there are that many out there as people think.
Psyker Powers: Personally my reason for not liking them have nothing to do with their Power OP or Not. For me it is the fact that unless I am missing something, Psykers are going to loose all of their personality.
Jumping Editions just because you don’t like the Rules Changes: All I see is what happened when 4th edition DnD came out. We had one player quit because when he tried to convert one of his old Characters from 3.5 into 4th it could no longer inflict 100+ points of damage a round, so “4th Edition Sucks” and quit before playing the 1st game.
6th Edition created WAAC Broken Units more than any other game out there: >BattleTech: Companies only armed with Clan PPCs, Gauss Cannons and Autocannon/20s and all have Targeting Computers. Have you ever seen a Company on Company Game take only 35 min to play.
Lansirill wrote: So no unbound vs battle forged it looks like. Missed that on my first skim through the screen caps. That makes objective secured a little redundant unless they're changing the scoring system after all. That could be nice actually. Troops are great at scoring, but you can choose to mostly ignore them and use other units to score... I'd take it out on a second date.
You did miss it. Read the top line of the screen cap that details unbound armies. Specifically the bold section. "Both players need not use the same method."
Looking at it I only see "both players need ... use the same method." So I suppose nothing is really clear, since those ellipses could be either not or to. Either that, or I'm just not able to see the entire image for some reason.
The dakka embedding is doing some odd clipping. Open the image up in a new tab/window/program. Your ... Is the word not. Both players need not use the same method.
Well those are different books, so each book has its own title. I guess they couldnt come up with a clever name for the rulebook, but that's okay because I think it would be frustrating for them to give the Core Rulebook a fluff name. Its quick and easy to find the rulebook when the book is called "The Rules"
EDIT: Correction, they are all rulebooks, but the Urien Rakarth one is only the rules, no fluff, no artwork, just the rules ma'am.
Yeah, those cover are poor. 5th I liked for the simplicity, 6th I really liked for the epicness. These are just dire, they'd better have sime kind of dust cover that doesn't double the cost. (yeah right)
On the plus side, I do like the fact I don't have to re-buy the gallery and fluff I bought 2 years ago.
Hardly. If they are opening pre-orders this soon, it means that the books are already printed. The only way to respond to feedback now would be a Day One FAQ.
Paradigm wrote: Yeah, those cover are poor. 5th I liked for the simplicity, 6th I really liked for the epicness. These are just dire, they'd better have sime kind of dust cover that doesn't double the cost. (yeah right)
On the plus side, I do like the fact I don't have to re-buy the gallery and fluff I bought 2 years ago.
You buy all three books as a "set" with a slipcase to store them in.
Paradigm wrote: Yeah, those cover are poor. 5th I liked for the simplicity, 6th I really liked for the epicness. These are just dire, they'd better have sime kind of dust cover that doesn't double the cost. (yeah right)
On the plus side, I do like the fact I don't have to re-buy the gallery and fluff I bought 2 years ago.
So you're certain they will sell these books on an individual basis? Cause, I'm not... They will sell all three as a bundle.
Paradigm wrote: Yeah, those cover are poor. 5th I liked for the simplicity, 6th I really liked for the epicness. These are just dire, they'd better have sime kind of dust cover that doesn't double the cost. (yeah right)
On the plus side, I do like the fact I don't have to re-buy the gallery and fluff I bought 2 years ago.
They'll come in a set of three in a slipcase, knowing GW. No individual sales.
No starter? Well, that's crap. I'm not paying full price for a GW rulebook, sadly, so it looks like I'm sitting this edition out until they release a rulebook that is better value.
Hardly. If they are opening pre-orders this soon, it means that the books are already printed. The only way to respond to feedback now would be a Day One FAQ.
Or they're referring to player feedback over 6th, not 7th.
Da Boss wrote: No starter? Well, that's crap. I'm not paying full price for a GW rulebook, sadly, so it looks like I'm sitting this edition out until they release a rulebook that is better value.
Starters are never released with the new edition launch, at least for the last 3 or 4. A new starter, if it exists, is likely to appear August/September if they are sticking to previous schedules.
Da Boss wrote: No starter? Well, that's crap. I'm not paying full price for a GW rulebook, sadly, so it looks like I'm sitting this edition out until they release a rulebook that is better value.
Starters are never released with the new edition launch, at least for the last 3 or 4. A new starter, if it exists, is likely to appear August/September if they are sticking to previous schedules.
My Birthday in August.
Getting married in September
Excuse for someone to buy me that box set I suppose! [
Pre-orders are already up on my local hobby store:
This is a Pre-Order for the new Warhammer 40K 7th edition rulebook.
This product comprises of three books withing a single slipcase;
The Rules - 200 Pages - Just the rules
The Grimdark - 128 Pages - Lore and background info
The Hobby - 114 Pages - Pictures and guides for all things 40K
It's up for £50RRP, £40 with online discount from the store
Paradigm wrote: Yeah, those cover are poor. 5th I liked for the simplicity, 6th I really liked for the epicness. These are just dire, they'd better have sime kind of dust cover that doesn't double the cost. (yeah right)
On the plus side, I do like the fact I don't have to re-buy the gallery and fluff I bought 2 years ago.
You buy all three books as a "set" with a slipcase to store them in.
And that's why I should read the small print. Back to being cross with GW again. A single rulebook for around £30 and I'd have bought it. As it stands, probably not.
WD doesn't say "player feedback", it says "feedback from thousands of games". It doesn't specify if this was after thousands of games of football, watched at the local bar by sales execs while coming up with new ways to generate commission.
Da Boss wrote: No starter? Well, that's crap. I'm not paying full price for a GW rulebook, sadly, so it looks like I'm sitting this edition out until they release a rulebook that is better value.
Starters are never released with the new edition launch, at least for the last 3 or 4. A new starter, if it exists, is likely to appear August/September if they are sticking to previous schedules.
Or, we already have a starter. Dark Vengeance. Remember look forward to the White Dwarf to keep us informed what is going to happen.
50 Pounds? So that should translate rough to a $85 price-point, so about $10 more than the previous edition two years ago.
I'm sure it's got a bunch of additional (not necessarily new) content in the form of adding in the rules from Escalation and Stronghold, but it still feels like a cheap move. I'm going to hold off for a while on this one, maybe purchase the Rules-only portion on eBay at some point depending on how the edition goes. Can't say I'm personally too excited about the update, there are some good and bad things, but it feels like GW is testing the drop-off point in customer purchases for product lifespan, and I'd rather not encourage further testing.
EDIT RE Scans: Maybe GW is leaking these pictures, but to punish us for being inquisitive they've shrunk them down so they can laugh at the fact that we're all squinting at the pages.
GW being GW, they will never sell the books individually.
However, at least GW arent complete douchenozzles this time around, and the idea of splitting the core BRB into 3 individual parts is GOOD IDEA as this means you no longer have to lug a 500 page hardback around to every game.
WD doesn't say "player feedback", it says "feedback from thousands of games". It doesn't specify if this was after thousands of games of football, watched at the local bar by sales execs while coming up with new ways to generate commission.
LOL, wow, thanks for making me laugh out loud for real!
I think that, come september, we'll have a new starter set.
Who knows, there might be a huge amout of DV still on the shelves and they might have decided to milk the boxes for more money by repackaging them with the new rule book. If the endeavour of doing so is profitable, I would do it.
So it gives them a full 3 or 4 months of rentability with some modifications with the box.
On a side note, I also like the spit of the book in three parts.
Accolade wrote: EDIT RE Scans: Maybe GW is leaking these pictures, but to punish us for being inquisitive they've shrunk them down so they can laugh at the fact that we're all squinting at the pages.
Accolade wrote: 50 Pounds? So that should translate rough to a $85 price-point, so about $10 more than the previous edition two years ago.
I'm sure it's got a bunch of additional (not necessarily new) content in the form of adding in the rules from Escalation and Stronghold, but it still feels like a cheap move.
Well considering that the 6th edition rules are around 150 pages, the extra 50 probably come from the Escalation, SA, Daemonology/psychic phase and Battle Forced / Unbound additions.
$80 buck American? So that will be $110 Canadian. This is a great deal. I mean the codex is $60, so for only $50 bucks more I am getting so much more. This is a great deal. 100 pages for a $60 codex but double the price we are getting what, triple the pages?
Ok now, so now we have to pay for a Hard Copy of Visions now? Really? Damn, GW is trolling us good.
Well, that Urien Rakarth picture is a huge letdown after the lovely interior design. I was hoping for something nice and abstract.
I think I'd buy the background book as well as the rules if they were available separately. The only one I have no interest in whatsoever is the 'hobby' one.
I hope that there will be a limited edition or something of the rulebook with a different cover.
GuardStrider wrote: I am kind of surprised they didn't release a new set to get some extra money from the mini collectors.
That won't drop until next fiscal year and won't help this years bottom line.
The fact that they don't have a new set of models to run a new starter set is another indicator that this was a rush to get a new rule book out to affect sales and not a thought out release. I'm wondering how many(if any) differences there will be to the fluff and painting sections compared to 6th ed. It would be very easy to separate the three sections into different bindings and only make changes to the rules portion.
But the rules were "Gently Massaged" due to "gamer feedback" over "Thousands of games"!
That's love, right there.
Our group must be out of it then. Because I have never heard anyone, since Second Edition, say - "we really need the ability to summon Greater Daemons"!
Sir Arun wrote: GW being GW, they will never sell the books individually.
However, at least GW arent complete douchenozzles this time around, and the idea of splitting the core BRB into 3 individual parts is GOOD IDEA as this means you no longer have to lug a 500 page hardback around to every game.
Nah they'll wait 6 months, forcing you to buy or pirate it to stay current. Group buy the rulebook with some friends and make some colour binded photocopy versions or "reference copies" 100% legal. Done, you stuck it to GW and you get your game. Everybody wins. Or digitally just group buy the rulebook and use a generic apple ID with 10 of your friends. Everyone gets the book, you pay $6 for a codex (less with the fact iTunes cards go on sale constantly).
Moral of the story is stop paying full price like a sucker.
Ratius wrote: Im actually really fething excited by 7th, absolutely loving the new objective card idea and psychic phase, a lovely homage to 2nd ed.
Bring it on for me
I am more reserved. Psychic was a complete mess in second edition and it seems we are getting that back in spades (now with daemon summoning).
I have a sinking suspicion that psychers are now about to dominate the battefield.
The biggest issue, for me, anyways, was the power cards in second were what issued you your Nullify cards, so if you were screwed over by the deck (or your opponent got fething Ultimate Force) then you got owned.
This new system seems to prevent all that, so I'm quite keen.
Ratius wrote: Im actually really fething excited by 7th, absolutely loving the new objective card idea and psychic phase, a lovely homage to 2nd ed.
Bring it on for me
I am more reserved. Psychic was a complete mess in second edition and it seems we are getting that back in spades (now with daemon summoning).
I have a sinking suspicion that psychers are now about to dominate the battefield.
Yayyy let's make the flying circus even better!
In all seriousness though I'm more intrigued than I am excited, I just want to see what comes out of the new edition and how much different the game is on the table but am afraid of how bad it could be.
Megalith games, Godslayer game split there books into rules in one and background into another. It's a great idea and I can see other companies following suit.
I think the new covers are appropriate for each book. You buy the fluff for the imperium of man's struggle(space marine), you get into the hobby for well detailed miniatures(like the DV helbrute). And you disect the rules like the master surgeon Urien. I'm liking the detailed sketch over the simplified background. Looks keen to me.
Jidmah wrote: So, a Lord of Change can sacrifice itself to summon a Bloodthirster?
IF it roll's a 6 when generating powers at the start of the battle, and IF it can roll at least 3 4+'s during the psychic phase, after the opponent subtracts all 4+'s that have been denied.
Also we have no word on how peril's of the warp works - but in this case the psyker dies if the power goes off, so perils won't matter if some 1's sneak into it's psychic roll i guess.
Bottom line? I think it's possible, but we don't quite know how it all works together just yet and there might be something we're not seeing here that would prevent this from happening.
I have a sinking suspicion that psychers are now about to dominate the battefield.
Yayyy let's make the flying circus even better!
If this need 4+'s equal to warp charge on dice to cast is true, they will be substantially worse.
The comment was mostly a joke, but...
I'm guessing the rules for Tzeentch Daemons psychic test bonuses will be changed, otherwise the +3 LD will be completely useless as it only affects psychic powers and nothing else. The Psychic Phase invalidates a handful of rules that are in current codices, so it's gonna be a bit of a mess if there isn't a built in errata/FAQ to correct some of that stuff. If the 4+ to activate powers rumor is true, I could see Tzeentch Daemons having it bumped down to a better roll, or the roll getting better with Mastery Level like DTW supposedly will.
The flying circus and Seer Council will probably come out worse, but the sheer numerical advantage in dice during the psychic phase over pretty much any other army is hilarious. Also, be honest, when playing a circus do you really need every single random power you end up with? You typically have about 9-15 rolls on various tables depending on your list, and half of them will probably be situational or crappy (on the current tables at least). There are usually a few key things you need to make use of, and I doubt another psychic army is going to have a ton of dice to throw at you to deny if they want to use any of their own powers (could work differently, I dunno). We still don't know for sure if you can attempt to DTW against blessings, or whether or not this ML4 DTW on a 3+ against anything you cast is true.
We also still have no idea what other psychic powers have changed/remained/disappeared, so yes I agree they will probably come out worse off than they were, but this is all just hearsay at this point.
Sinful Hero wrote: I think the new covers are appropriate for each book. You buy the fluff for the imperium of man's struggle(space marine), you get into the hobby for well detailed miniatures(like the DV helbrute). And you disect the rules like the master surgeon Urien. I'm liking the detailed sketch over the simplified background. Looks keen to me.
Surely you mean Urien reflects the complete horror of the jumbled mess of broken and ruined parts forged into an unholy yet somehow functioning wholeness that is called the rules?
Jidmah wrote: So, a Lord of Change can sacrifice itself to summon a Bloodthirster?
Potentially.
Or, even more heretically, a Great Unclean One.
That is of course if daemons get daemonology....
Someone earlier mentioned that the WD states "everyone except Tyranids" gets it.
So I assume Daemons have access to Malefic Daemonology...
If true it opens up a compounding problem. An ever growing amount of daemons, and spawning ML 3 heralds that can turn themselves into greater daemons. All with the potential of having 2++ rerollable saves.
Jidmah wrote: So, a Lord of Change can sacrifice itself to summon a Bloodthirster?
Potentially.
Or, even more heretically, a Great Unclean One.
That is of course if daemons get daemonology....
Someone earlier mentioned that the WD states "everyone except Tyranids" gets it.
So I assume Daemons have access to Malefic Daemonology...
If true it opens up a compounding problem. An ever growing amount of daemons, and spawning ML 3 heralds that can turn themselves into greater daemons. All with the potential of having 2++ rerollable saves.
You can't make an ML3 herald with 30pts (I think it said 30, scan was sort of bad) of upgrades IIRC, so there will be no endless chain of GDs running around.
Jidmah wrote: So, a Lord of Change can sacrifice itself to summon a Bloodthirster?
Potentially.
Or, even more heretically, a Great Unclean One.
Great. The new edition didn't even arrive and we allready have exploits. So a Lord of Change can sacrifice himself to get another Lord of Change at full hitpoints...
I just hope they redo some of the greater demons. The bloodthirster is such an outdated sculpt, it hurts just from looking at it...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Souleater wrote: I was really hoping that the BA Vs Orks starter was going to be true. I will be disappointed if they continue with the Horus Heresy for beginners box.
HH in the beginners box? Expensive FW modells in a starter kit? Did I miss something? I think you mean Dark Vengeance...
Sinful Hero wrote: I think the new covers are appropriate for each book. You buy the fluff for the imperium of man's struggle(space marine), you get into the hobby for well detailed miniatures(like the DV helbrute). And you disect the rules like the master surgeon Urien. I'm liking the detailed sketch over the simplified background. Looks keen to me.
Surely you mean Urien reflects the complete horror of the jumbled mess of broken and ruined parts forged into an unholy yet somehow functioning wholeness that is called the rules?
Oh, how silly of me! Thank you for the correction!
Jidmah wrote: So, a Lord of Change can sacrifice itself to summon a Bloodthirster?
Potentially.
Or, even more heretically, a Great Unclean One.
Great. The new edition didn't even arrive and we allready have exploits. So a Lord of Change can sacrifice himself to get another Lord of Change at full hitpoints...
I just hope they redo some of the greater demons. The bloodthirster is such an outdated sculpt, it hurts just from looking at it...
It's been said a few times already, but it's a bit early to get worked up about this. We don't know the rules for conjured units yet, we don't know if they have to DS onto the field, or if they're placed and can act normally. The sky isn't falling ... yet
Jidmah wrote: So, a Lord of Change can sacrifice itself to summon a Bloodthirster?
Potentially.
Or, even more heretically, a Great Unclean One.
Great. The new edition didn't even arrive and we allready have exploits. So a Lord of Change can sacrifice himself to get another Lord of Change at full hitpoints...
I just hope they redo some of the greater demons. The bloodthirster is such an outdated sculpt, it hurts just from looking at it...
From how it appears you won't be able to give them any gifts if you do that. A LoC without ML3, 2 greater, and 1 lesser gift isn't that big of a deal tbh, that's what makes them more durable and killy. Obviously it still sucks that they'll possibly be able to jump back to 5W, but remember they have to roll this specific power and would then lose out on at least 1 more that they might have wanted from Divination/Change. Not a reliable or sound strategy tbh, more of a lucky late game gimmick.
oni wrote: Who cares about the damn slip case... I still have to see that complete abortion of a cover on my rulebook.
Art being called an "abortion", really?
And it's not like you can't put another cover over it. Say make a protective cover out of a paper bag for instance. Or printing something you prefer and pasting it over it.
oni wrote: Who cares about the damn slip case... I still have to see that complete abortion of a cover on my rulebook.
Art being called an "abortion", really?
And it's not like you can't put another cover over it. Say make a protective cover out of a paper bag for instance. Or printing something you prefer and pasting it over it.
Yeah, with you on this one CZ, there's legitimate concerns for what the new edition my wreak, and then there's looking for a reason to get upset.
They're claiming some changes due to feedback... I really hope so.
I think you misread it...
Actually what is written is:
"Veterans of the warhammer 40,000 hobby will see that for this latest edition, the rules have been gracefully massaged, with the feedback of thousands of games..."
How I am reading it, is:
"(Calm down) Veterans (gamers) of the warhammer 40,000 hobby (you) will see that for this latest edition, the rules have been gracefully massaged, with the feedback of thousands of games (from our game testers, from Games Workshop employees & the ones testing the game...)..."
IMHO
Regardless, what rumors and info we have so far, is what 7th will be. These "feedbacks" are in the past, nothing to do with what we are getting in 7th, these feedbacks are resulting in what 7th is already...
It's been said a few times already, but it's a bit early to get worked up about this. We don't know the rules for conjured units yet, we don't know if they have to DS onto the field, or if they're placed and can act normally. The sky isn't falling ... yet
I'm a little more curious as to the rules for picking / re-rolling conjuration powers. How many people are going to buy and paint up a greater daemon model based on the 1 in 6 chance they roll Possession? What if you don't own enough daemons to cast the Primaris more than once? It would be poor form to stick people with useless powers all game all under the aim of BUY MORE DAEMONS.
Sinful Hero wrote: I think the new covers are appropriate for each book. You buy the fluff for the imperium of man's struggle(space marine), you get into the hobby for well detailed miniatures(like the DV helbrute). And you disect the rules like the master surgeon Urien. I'm liking the detailed sketch over the simplified background. Looks keen to me.
Surely you mean Urien reflects the complete horror of the jumbled mess of broken and ruined parts forged into an unholy yet somehow functioning wholeness that is called the rules?
Is it just me, or has anyone else felt a change in the 40k narrative/fluff/progression of the 40k storyline with 7th?
I mean, Chaos seems to have gained a stronger foothold outside their realm (with the psychic phase & daemonoligy and all), allies have changed up (Tau & Space Marines), unbound armies in a narrative sense are like last compilations of leftover units thrown into a desperate situation, etc...
It's been said a few times already, but it's a bit early to get worked up about this. We don't know the rules for conjured units yet, we don't know if they have to DS onto the field, or if they're placed and can act normally. The sky isn't falling ... yet
I'm a little more curious as to the rules for picking / re-rolling conjuration powers. How many people are going to buy and paint up a greater daemon model based on the 1 in 6 chance they roll Possession? What if you don't own enough daemons to cast the Primaris more than once? It would be poor form to stick people with useless powers all game all under the aim of BUY MORE DAEMONS.
But buying GW models is the hobby, didn't you know? The rules are written to enable you to enjoy the hobby more. I'm sure they'll make it all clear in "the hobby" book, which will feature full colour diagrams of how to buy things, and how to get your mum to buy things for you.
Loopstah wrote: Interesting. Looks like you can score objectives each turn.
Indeed. I think this will be huge. It should help to prevent the last turn objective grabbing. The more objectives you grab earlier, the more chances you have to get objectives in later turns.
I like how Jervis equates "choice" with "whatever random result you're lumbered with on the D66 table".
"Variety is the spice of life" indeed!
Honestly, I do like the idea though
From my understanding, and what I've heard, at the start of the game you have 3 objective cards randomly chosen from your shuffled deck. As you accomplish those objectives, you take another (face down) card from your shuffled deck...
So far is no mention of Super Heavies in the new edition, besides Knights...
Could all the rumor mongers be wrong about Escalation in 7th?
I do enjoy rumors based on assumptions that turn out completely untrue I have to say.
We've already seen the new FOC with Lords of War included as standard. So Super Heavies are now normal 40K, like they were anyway as Escalation was a supplement.
The last big GW release we got was a 100+ page book dedicated to the Tau and Space Marines slaughtering one another. lol
Anyway, I actually kind of like the modular mission idea. It helps add some longevity to the game.
It's also a nice artificial great equalizer. Oh, I really like that gunline you've set-up in your deployment zone there, Tau. Too bad your objective is to hold this point waaaaaay over here on my side of the map.
Ifurita wrote: I like the concept that you score points for holding objectives at the end of each turn vs. swooping in on the last turn with fast movers to seize.
As you (When) achieve your objective(s), you get the VPs. Some objectives give you VPs at start of turn, middle of turn, end of turn, etc...!
Here's a write up about why D&D 4th ed failed. There are many similarities to design, player base and what makes a good game that I think are interesting and sometimes highly applicable to the situation GW and us players face right now. One thing I like was when he said "but what the players want and what is good for the game is seldom the same thing."
I also think that 4th ed is an example of bad marketing and bad design (in a certain way, it was a well crafted game, but it wasn't much fun.)
How is this applicable to 40k?
Here's the first paragraph. Switch some names and editions to GW, 40k, 7th ed, etc and you get the picture. I suggest reading more in the article because its very well written and very interesting.
So, Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition has been announced, and the news has struck the sort of reaction I expected it to. People are hoping for this feature or that. Others are expressing their dismay at the fact that a new edition is coming so soon on the heels of D&D: Essentials. Yet others are suggesting that this heralds the end of Dungeons & Dragons, that a new edition will make the already split RPG community even more fractious. There are yet others that have met the news with incredible, soul-crushing apathy. So, there’s that.
Looking at the table you roll on I would guess the Secure Objective 1 through 6 are all repeated at least 3 times each. This means 18 out of the 36 cards are "Capture objective 1" type cards.
Not necessarily. There are also mission types (capture and control, take and hold, etc etc), which currently have an unknown effect. It's not entirely clear.
But yeah, "Secure objective 1" seems a little...bare bones.
Except for the "type", which may bear some relevance.
Yeah looks like there are at least 3 different "Types" for the capture objectives. It also mentions a kill the warlord and kill a psycher objective in the example at the side so that 20 out of 36 objectives we now know, leaving 16 still unknown.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Not necessarily. There are also mission types (capture and control, take and hold, etc etc), which currently have an unknown effect. It's not entirely clear.
But yeah, "Secure objective 1" seems a little...bare bones.
He (JJ) does mention the intention to expand on this in the future though, so supplementary decks and tables with more interesting/complex/faction or fluff appropriate tasks aren't impossible.
Hmm, Maelstorm of War seems quite nice. I'd imagine they'd use more original ideas, but it's ok. Much more tactical and dynamic than Eternal War missions (as they stand now).
'Kingslayer' objective card - oh my, always wanted to be Jamie Lannister!
The way I read it, is that you don't automatically gain VP for each objective owned at the end of each turn. Some are more important to you than others, which depending on location and exposure, lead you to making tactical decisions about whether trying to grab and hold one over successive turns is worth it.
I'll freely admit that I'm miffed that GW is pumping out another edition after only 2 years, but parts of 6th were broken. (Mainly allies IMO)
With that said, Im gonna give 7th a fair chance. I'll buy the book, play the game etc., but if GW makes this the new norm and thinks I'm gonna put out for another ruleset in 2016 then I'll be done with them until the company is sold.
Ifurita wrote: The way I read it, is that you don't automatically gain VP for each objective owned at the end of each turn. Some are more important to you than others, which depending on location and exposure, lead you to making tactical decisions about whether trying to grab and hold one over successive turns is worth it.
Yeah, most are probably like that. It will keep the game going at a fast and vicious pace!
If "The Rules" is under £30 I might bite the bullet and get it anyway. It's quite a nice touch since people quite often moan about paying for the same fluff again and the worse-every-time hobby sections by getting it all in one book. And now that more details are emerging, it sounds like there's more meat on the bones than simply "We added unbound so you can buy more riptides"
If they've split the book simply so that they can drive the price up for completionists then that's a bit less cool but, well, trying to please everyone is the key to failure as they say
Bull0 wrote: If "The Rules" is under £30 I might bite the bullet and get it anyway. It's quite a nice touch since people quite often moan about paying for the same fluff again and the worse-every-time hobby sections by getting it all in one book. And now that more details are emerging, it sounds like there's more meat on the bones than simply "We added unbound so you can buy more riptides"
If they've split them so that they can drive the price up for completionists then that's a bit less cool but, well, trying to please everyone is the key to failure as they say
Word is 50GBP for all three. There is no word about them being sold separately at this time.
Bull0 wrote: If "The Rules" is under £30 I might bite the bullet and get it anyway. It's quite a nice touch since people quite often moan about paying for the same fluff again and the worse-every-time hobby sections by getting it all in one book. And now that more details are emerging, it sounds like there's more meat on the bones than simply "We added unbound so you can buy more riptides"
If they've split the book simply so that they can drive the price up for completionists then that's a bit less cool but, well, trying to please everyone is the key to failure as they say
Unfortunately it sounds like you have to buy all 3 books with no option for buying just "the rules".
Can someone remind of the rules for unbound vs. Battle Forged and how that impacts scoring for VPs? Do unbound armies not contest and are therefore forced to kill battle forged units faster than they can accumulate VP?
The split of the rule books might be a Forge World influenced idea, where they just released the crusade list book. That way you have a single slim book to carry around vs. all three massive HH books.
What's the current consensus on the Tactical Objective Cards... Do you guys think two players will use one deck and both choose from there or will each player need their own?
Ifurita wrote:Can someone remind of the rules for unbound vs. Battle Forged and how that impacts scoring for VPs? Do unbound armies not contest and are therefore forced to kill battle forged units faster than they can accumulate VP?
Looks like it. Unbound troops need to take it if they want it, while Battle-forged troops just need to sit down and have fancy tea.
Pox Apostle wrote:What's the current consensus on the Tactical Objective Cards... Do you guys think two players will use one deck and both choose from there or will each player need their own?
One deck will be enough, I think. There are 36 cards and players have only 3 on their hands. Every time you complete an objective, discard the card and pick another. Now, if you do re-shuffle the cards in the same pile or just pick from the original pile, that's not known.
Ifurita wrote: Can someone remind of the rules for unbound vs. Battle Forged and how that impacts scoring for VPs? Do unbound armies not contest and are therefore forced to kill battle forged units faster than they can accumulate VP?
Looks like it. Hopefully tabling is no longer an auto win that way who there's no point if you table the opponent if they have already gained 12 VP during the game and still end up winning.
Bull0 wrote: If "The Rules" is under £30 I might bite the bullet and get it anyway. It's quite a nice touch since people quite often moan about paying for the same fluff again and the worse-every-time hobby sections by getting it all in one book. And now that more details are emerging, it sounds like there's more meat on the bones than simply "We added unbound so you can buy more riptides"
If they've split them so that they can drive the price up for completionists then that's a bit less cool but, well, trying to please everyone is the key to failure as they say
Word is 50GBP for all three. There is no word about them being sold separately at this time.
Oh, bummer. That was a silly assumption of mine.
I guess splitting them out will at least make them a bit less unwieldy to use for normal games, so there's that.
Pox Apostle wrote: What's the current consensus on the Tactical Objective Cards... Do you guys think two players will use one deck and both choose from there or will each player need their own?
I'd say one set per player.
While 2 people can roll the same dice result, 2 people can't pick the same card so both players would each need a deck of cards otherwise your opponent could be holding cards you could actually claim but can't because they have them.
Pox Apostle wrote: What's the current consensus on the Tactical Objective Cards... Do you guys think two players will use one deck and both choose from there or will each player need their own?
each needs their own.
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Souleater wrote: Although 'The Rules' might be what we get in the Starter Set.
Didn't it say in the WD that the Dark Vengeance starters would have the new (mini) rulebooks in them...
"The Dark Vengeance box set currently contains a copy of the rules from the last edition of Warhammer 40,000 - rest assured that in the near future(?) this will be updated to contain the new edition of The Rules. Stay tuned to White Dwarf for more on this exciting development"
So I know that the last-minute jetbike boost strategy is much maligned recently, but does anyone think that with the advent of these new tactical objectives, having a mobile force will be more important than ever?
Pox Apostle wrote: What's the current consensus on the Tactical Objective Cards... Do you guys think two players will use one deck and both choose from there or will each player need their own?
I'd say one set per player.
While 2 people can roll the same dice result, 2 people can't pick the same card so both players would each need a deck of cards otherwise your opponent could be holding cards you could actually claim but can't because they have them.
The rules portion of the 7th edition will sell on eBay for a considerable chunk of the total percentage cost of the full book.
The non-rules section will sell for a pittance. For the cost of the full 7th, you'll be able to buy so many of the other two books that you can build a wall to prevent further JJ fleecing in the future!
Bull0 wrote: If "The Rules" is under £30 I might bite the bullet and get it anyway. It's quite a nice touch since people quite often moan about paying for the same fluff again and the worse-every-time hobby sections by getting it all in one book. And now that more details are emerging, it sounds like there's more meat on the bones than simply "We added unbound so you can buy more riptides"
If they've split the book simply so that they can drive the price up for completionists then that's a bit less cool but, well, trying to please everyone is the key to failure as they say
Unfortunately it sounds like you have to buy all 3 books with no option for buying just "the rules".
Colpicklejar wrote: So I know that the last-minute jetbike boost strategy is much maligned recently, but does anyone think that with the advent of these new tactical objectives, having a mobile force will be more important than ever?
Quite interesting.
Well, mobile AND survivable. Again, I like the choices the player has to face. Push up fast but fragile forces to start building VP or move a more survivable force up, a little more slowly.
Colpicklejar wrote: So I know that the last-minute jetbike boost strategy is much maligned recently, but does anyone think that with the advent of these new tactical objectives, having a mobile force will be more important than ever?
Quite interesting.
I think the most important thing in 7th with be a survivable mobile force. 3 man jetbike squads will be killed en-route to the objective, but marines in a rhino may have a better chance of making it.
It's been said a few times already, but it's a bit early to get worked up about this. We don't know the rules for conjured units yet, we don't know if they have to DS onto the field, or if they're placed and can act normally. The sky isn't falling ... yet
I'm a little more curious as to the rules for picking / re-rolling conjuration powers. How many people are going to buy and paint up a greater daemon model based on the 1 in 6 chance they roll Possession? What if you don't own enough daemons to cast the Primaris more than once? It would be poor form to stick people with useless powers all game all under the aim of BUY MORE DAEMONS.
I don't know, but one of my sons plays CSM, and I'd have no issue letting him use the Daemons I'm not planning on putting on the table. I have a Bloodthirster model, but as someone else already said, putting a GD on the table without any Master Levels or Gift results in a much less durable unit. A naked LoC will have a 5++, and no way to gain any additional durability through Daemonic Rewards. It looks like the Heralds can get 30 points worth of options, but the larger Daemons cannot. And if you can't start them Swooping, they're going to die fast.
It's been said a few times already, but it's a bit early to get worked up about this. We don't know the rules for conjured units yet, we don't know if they have to DS onto the field, or if they're placed and can act normally. The sky isn't falling ... yet
I'm a little more curious as to the rules for picking / re-rolling conjuration powers. How many people are going to buy and paint up a greater daemon model based on the 1 in 6 chance they roll Possession? What if you don't own enough daemons to cast the Primaris more than once? It would be poor form to stick people with useless powers all game all under the aim of BUY MORE DAEMONS.
I don't know, but one of my sons plays CSM, and I'd have no issue letting him use the Daemons I'm not planning on putting on the table. I have a Bloodthirster model, but as someone else already said, putting a GD on the table without any Master Levels or Gift results in a much less durable unit. A naked LoC will have a 5++, and no way to gain any additional durability through Daemonic Rewards. It looks like the Heralds can get 30 points worth of options, but the larger Daemons cannot. And if you can't start them Swooping, they're going to die fast.
Colpicklejar wrote: So I know that the last-minute jetbike boost strategy is much maligned recently, but does anyone think that with the advent of these new tactical objectives, having a mobile force will be more important than ever?
Quite interesting.
Stuff like Bikes, Jetbikes, Jump infantry and possibly troops with DS ability (although this is a one-shot) could mean the difference between victory and defeat.
Either that or play AM/ Nids and flood the board with troop choices so you can score all the objectives at once and damn the casualties.
MWHistorian wrote: Here's a write up about why D&D 4th ed failed. There are many similarities to design, player base and what makes a good game that I think are interesting and sometimes highly applicable to the situation GW and us players face right now. One thing I like was when he said "but what the players want and what is good for the game is seldom the same thing."
I also think that 4th ed is an example of bad marketing and bad design (in a certain way, it was a well crafted game, but it wasn't much fun.)
How is this applicable to 40k?
Here's the first paragraph. Switch some names and editions to GW, 40k, 7th ed, etc and you get the picture. I suggest reading more in the article because its very well written and very interesting.
So, Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition has been announced, and the news has struck the sort of reaction I expected it to. People are hoping for this feature or that. Others are expressing their dismay at the fact that a new edition is coming so soon on the heels of D&D: Essentials. Yet others are suggesting that this heralds the end of Dungeons & Dragons, that a new edition will make the already split RPG community even more fractious. There are yet others that have met the news with incredible, soul-crushing apathy. So, there’s that.
Big IMO, but if there was ever a time the community should be patient is now. Let the book hit and let reviewers do their thing. Watch battle reports, read articles, etc. if the book is $85 USD, that's equivalents to the rules for three other games. The HHHobby book and fluff will be recycled content and you can find better on Dakka or one of the many 40k wikis.
I'd recommend to not preorder and wait. Don't allow what feels to be a cash grab to be successful. The having three books is nice, but if you can't just buy what's important on its own for day one for $35 or less, then it's entirely a rip off. Don't let the sunk cost of your armies clout your better judgement. Use your 6E rules and keep dice rolling. The mere fact that your $75 rule book from less than two years ago hasn't received any FAQs for over a year should be incredibly telling. They'd rather sell you new rules than support you as a customer.
Personally I'll be pre-ordering the new BBB (book, book, book), the objective cards and the psychic cards as soon as possible. I like the look of what I've seen and I like the idea of splitting the big book into 3 mini ones. Much easier to cart around.
What can I say, I'm a hopeless GW junkie and I'll happily throw money at them for whatever they want.
TheKbob wrote: Big IMO, but if there was ever a time the community should be patient is now. Let the book hit and let reviewers do their thing. Watch battle reports, read articles, etc. if the book is $85 USD, that's equivalents to the rules for three other games. The HHHobby book and fluff will be recycled content and you can find better on Dakka or one of the many 40k wikis.
I'd recommend to not preorder and wait. Don't allow what feels to be a cash grab to be successful. The having three books is nice, but if you can't just buy what's important on its own for day one for $35 or less, then it's entirely a rip off. Don't let the sunk cost of your armies clout your better judgement. Use your 6E rules and keep dice rolling. The mere fact that your $75 rule book from less than two years ago hasn't received any FAQs for over a year should be incredibly telling. They'd rather sell you new rules than support you as a customer.
I'm with you, TheKbob. I am going to give this release time to sort itself out and a review consensus to build up. If everyone waited to verify the release, it would send a strong message to GW. And if the release turns out to be good, then by all means pick it up after some time and enjoy it to your heart's content.
But don't send the message that half the regular lifespan is something you're on-board with.
Lobukia wrote: I would love to see "explodes" removed from the damage chart. if 5-6 immobilized, then suddenly vehicles matter again.
And melta becomes useless. Yeah! Great idea! Do not forget to nerf flamethrower too.
Wow, or some simply thinking works too... give melta the ability to remove 2 HP or say that if an AP 1 or 2 weapon removes the last hull point, then we get an explodes... or something like that.
Edition is presented in a new format, 3 hardcover books in a slipcover. Page count of all three is about 450 pages in total:
The Rulebook: @200 pages, only rules
The Grimdark: @100 pages - Fluff and history of the Warhammer universe
The Hobby: @100 pages - Full miniatures and hobby book. All splash pics, and intro to the hobby stuff.
Confirmed, but those page numbers are wrong:
Oh. okay. BTW, it says right there this is a 3 book package. I know a few pages ago people were speculating if it was individual books, or a set. There's that answer at least...
Loopstah wrote: Personally I'll be pre-ordering the new BBB (book, book, book), the objective cards and the psychic cards as soon as possible. I like the look of what I've seen and I like the idea of splitting the big book into 3 mini ones. Much easier to cart around.
What can I say, I'm a hopeless GW junkie and I'll happily throw money at them for whatever they want.
I'll get both card sets next month. But the book... probably pdf for now, the real deal way later
Lobukia wrote: I would love to see "explodes" removed from the damage chart. if 5-6 immobilized, then suddenly vehicles matter again.
And melta becomes useless. Yeah! Great idea! Do not forget to nerf flamethrower too.
A lucky shot shouldnt be able to take out a large point costed vehicle in one hit
I'd like to see the explodes result a 7+ and have AP2 add 1 and AP1 add 2 to your dice roll. Removes the chance for crap weapons to get a lucky explode result but still makes meltaguns useful.
Lobukia wrote: I would love to see "explodes" removed from the damage chart. if 5-6 immobilized, then suddenly vehicles matter again.
And melta becomes useless. Yeah! Great idea! Do not forget to nerf flamethrower too.
A lucky shot shouldnt be able to take out a large point costed vehicle in one hit
I'd like to see the explodes result a 7+ and have AP2 add 1 and AP1 add 2 to your dice roll. Removes the chance for crap weapons to get a lucky explode result but still makes meltaguns useful.
One of my friends told us such idea. It got quite the approval among us.
Co'tor Shas wrote:HRR Broadsides would be useful! (stupid nerf, mutter mutter).
Jaceevoke wrote: I to will be getting one for preorder, more to support (and be able to play at) my flgs than anything else.
You could, instead, buy the rules to three to four different games and buy models for each. This supports your FLGS more and it allows them to not to deal with the terrible GW business practices.
If $85 dollars is correct, this could get you the Malifaux rule book, starter box, and a pack of game cards. If everyone in your store did this and waited on the GW book, you'd all be card flipping and supporting a game company that actually listens to their customers.
Spend your money how you wish. I'll be keeping my 40k armies, but until I can get a copy of 7E at $35 or less, it'll be a pass.
I have yet to see a FLGS genuinely enthused about carrying GW products. It's more a necessary beast than a much loved product line.
Jaceevoke wrote: I to will be getting one for preorder, more to support (and be able to play at) my flgs than anything else.
You could, instead, buy the rules to three to four different games and buy models for each. This supports your FLGS more and it allows them to not to deal with the terrible GW business practices.
I have yet to see a FLGS genuinely enthused about carrying GW products. It's more a necessary beast than a much loved product line.
I'm fine with tank kills being somewhat "random", that's really how they should be, it either penetrates the armor and does something critical, or it doesn't. HP's are really what I don't like, tank's don't just stop working or die after X number of hits, if it doesn't hit something critical it keeps going.
Jaceevoke wrote: I to will be getting one for preorder, more to support (and be able to play at) my flgs than anything else.
You could, instead, buy the rules to three to four different games and buy models for each. This supports your FLGS more and it allows them to not to deal with the terrible GW business practices.
I have yet to see a FLGS genuinely enthused about carrying GW products. It's more a necessary beast than a much loved product line.
But my FLGS IS a Games Workshop store!
:/ sorry... I drive 45min to get to an awesome game store but they support all the games.
Loopstah wrote: Personally I'll be pre-ordering the new BBB (book, book, book), the objective cards and the psychic cards as soon as possible. I like the look of what I've seen and I like the idea of splitting the big book into 3 mini ones. Much easier to cart around.
What can I say, I'm a hopeless GW junkie and I'll happily throw money at them for whatever they want.
I agree with you 100%. Ill probably pre-order 2 collector's editions as well as all the cards. One for me, and one for a good friend of mine.
Jaceevoke wrote: I to will be getting one for preorder, more to support (and be able to play at) my flgs than anything else.
You could, instead, buy the rules to three to four different games and buy models for each. This supports your FLGS more and it allows them to not to deal with the terrible GW business practices.
If $85 dollars is correct, this could get you the Malifaux rule book, starter box, and a pack of game cards. If everyone in your store did this and waited on the GW book, you'd all be card flipping and supporting a game company that actually listens to their customers.
Spend your money how you wish. I'll be keeping my 40k armies, but until I can get a copy of 7E at $35 or less, it'll be a pass.
I have yet to see a FLGS genuinely enthused about carrying GW products. It's more a necessary beast than a much loved product line.
Shame that my FLGS only stocks the basics for Malifaux and Flames of War, besides GW products.
)
Still will leave it here if someone wants.
t or 
