So if taking a Veil AND Deceiver, assuming they're all going to be within range of each other, would it be wise to take a Cryptek up with the bunch?
That'll be D3+1 units up there that could potentially have RP (eg. 30-40 Immortals). I'd say that's the point where some help keeping them alive might come in handy.
(Alternatively, a Bus-Ark carrying HQs via G.I, but then you start getting into crazy point costs if you're not careful)

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Has anyone figured out how Quantum Sheilding and the new warlord trait interact? The best I can come up with is that the two effects trigger simultaneously so the person whose turn it is picks lol.

Also the relic on named characters?

The order isn't explicitly called out but it's mentioned the trait is after saves, so I'd say the RAW is it's after quantum shielding as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skoffs wrote:
So if taking a Veil AND Deceiver, assuming they're all going to be within range of each other, would it be wise to take a Cryptek up with the bunch?
That'll be D3+1 units up there that could potentially have RP (eg. 30-40 Immortals). I'd say that's the point where some help keeping them alive might come in handy.
(Alternatively, a Bus-Ark carrying HQs via G.I, but then you start getting into crazy point costs if you're not careful)

Having played deep strike focused Black legion and and dark angels Deathwing, using deep strike to alpha strike is mediocre at best, people know how to screen, and 30 cultist can have you deep striking on your side of the board because no where else is available. Veils best use is to deep strike on late game turns, when there are fewer enemies to get to places stuby necron legs could never reach.

As Grimgold wrote many armies have good protection against deep strikers.

What's good about the Deceiver and the Veil is that you can get to optimal firing distance right away with Necrons and also position you units where you want the, For example attack a vulnerable flank or avoid some enemy units.

You could also use these abilities, especially the Deceivers, to move up two units into cover into the middle of the board preventing your opponents alpha strike.

I think one of the optimal uses of Veil is a Cryptek with 20 Warriors. Blob them or line them in front of the enemy and then rapid fire off their Objective scoring units, creating a pretty good chaff wall that can be anywhere.

As our schtick is still (technically) durability, I think trying to gimmick a kill Alpha Strike is a mistake. It's only marginally better for Flayed Ones than just DSing them naturally, and it's too risky to use with with the pricey Lychguard. Gauss Immortals or Warrior blobs are probably the most used to teleport, since Tesla have good enough range and speed. The only other targets are Destroyers and Praets who are already fast enough to not need it.

Or as Grimgold said, you'd have it just as a cheeky late game objective grab. Relying on it can cause issues, but if it's just a tool you have sitting around for when you need it, that feels much better.

The veil is also useful like Obyron x Nemesor in recycling your boys out of melee so you can shoot first and charge back in.

Granted since the veil is one use comparatively and less restrictive at the end destination you should probably do more then just transporting to max rapid fire range against the person that just wrapped you etc~ but yeah I think it'll bring up some interesting shenanigans.

Lothmar wrote:
The veil is also useful like Obyron x Nemesor in recycling your boys out of melee so you can shoot first and charge back in.

Granted since the veil is one use comparatively and less restrictive at the end destination you should probably do more then just transporting to max rapid fire range against the person that just wrapped you etc~ but yeah I think it'll bring up some interesting shenanigans.

Well teleporting out of combat also has other implications - like if you bubblewrap with Warriors, they get charged by some Alpha Strike but survive, you can rez them and teleport away, which is much better than retreating while still opening up the enemy unit to shooting.

Requizen wrote:
[

Well teleporting out of combat also has other implications - like if you bubblewrap with Warriors, they get charged by some Alpha Strike but survive, you can rez them and teleport away, which is much better than retreating while still opening up the enemy unit to shooting.

on the plus side since you reappear at the end of the move phase if you Cryptek veil with a warrior blob you can always move them into range for a secondary RP from a ghost ark if you were too bottled up/etc to effectively RP your depleted numbers with your first RP. *twirls villainous mustache*

Can I have some generel tips, for army building, for a new player making a Necrons army at around the 1000pt level.

What's good, great and bad.

Are there any good combos or strategies etc.

Razerous wrote:
Can I have some generel tips, for army building, for a new player making a Necrons army at around the 1000pt level.

What's good, great and bad.

Are there any good combos or strategies etc.

The ranking in the OP is a good start.

Right now, the strong things are Wraiths, Scarabs, Warriors, Immortals, Gauss Pylon. Good things are Tomb Blades, CCB, C'tan, and maybe Doomsday Arks and Heavy Destroyers. Everything else is iffy at best imo.

There are no real combos or tricks at the moment. There was an attempt to make a Zahndrekh/Obyron/Deathstar bomb work, but it's really unreliable.

Mostly wait for the Codex likely in January or early February.

You'd rank Heavy Destroyers as good?

For the points the Lord costs.. can't you just get more warriors/immortals?

I can see the benefit of the Cryptek, partly because he is cheap and provides pretty decent buffs which stack with the existing durability mechanics... and mostly because, as your required to get at least 1 hq, you might as well.

All destroyers, Doomsday arks and Ctan are no where near cost effective so they are a fluffy list only take.

 skoffs wrote:
You'd rank Heavy Destroyers as good?

I said maybe.

Razerous, the codex will probably soon be out so we don't really know how things are going to change. So I would suggest buy what you like, but don't go overboard. A bit of a problem currently is that units with RP benefit from being large, which means running 10 Warriors or 3 Tomb blades is not so good.

Currently I'm not buying anything, but then I have quite a substantial army.

Things that might be a good start:
- Overlord
- Cryptek
- 20 Warriors
- 10 Immortals, Tesla
- 1 Triarch Stalker
- 6 Scarabs (can be more or less)
- 3 Wraiths

So basically the Start collecting Necron Box, box of warriors, 2 boxes of Immortals, a Cryptek and a box of Wraiths.

After that you could add:
- Catacomb barge/Annihilation Barge (magnetize)
- Ghost Ark/Doomsday Ark (magnetize)

Not the most competetive, but you get a bit of everything. If you want to be competetive for the moment you have to buy Forge World models and they are expensive.

Scarabs (x4) come with the warrior kit, so you'd likely be getting multiples of 4 bases

What about the Tesseract Ark?

Tesseract Ark seems to be our best AP unit so far so probably worth it to get one or two

Nightbringer is a monster in combat, fought him against carnifex lines and he blew through 3 of them with his wraith screen before dying. Realliy took the wind out of his assault.

Also, yep the TA is our best vehicle hands down.

Nightbringer is great. His statline is actually pretty nuts when it gets down to it, and his damage in both melee and shooting is quite reliable. However, it's low quantity so he can easily get bogged down if you mess up and more effective against certain enemies than others.

I think he's a great include if you want to have a fast hammer though.

Had a game yesterday against Alaitoc Eldars.
I used the Deceiver and the Veil to reposition almost my entire army in his face where the -1 to hit trait didn't help him. I got first turn which helped tremendously.

One unit of tesla Immortal, one unit of gauss immortals and one 6 man unit of Destroyers (incl heavy) took out the worst threats. Won me the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It was also fun to reposition a Doomsday Ark into flayer range. The DDA got focused on heavily which let the rest of my army to do their thing. I also rolled 4 1s on 5 dice on my QS rolls when he shot at the DDA with his Hemlock.

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
Had a game yesterday against Alaitoc Eldars.
I used the Deceiver and the Veil to reposition almost my entire army in his face where the -1 to hit trait didn't help him. I got first turn which helped tremendously.

One unit of tesla Immortal, one unit of gauss immortals and one 6 man unit of Destroyers (incl heavy) took out the worst threats. Won me the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It was also fun to reposition a Doomsday Ark into flayer range. The DDA got focused on heavily which let the rest of my army to do their thing. I also rolled 4 1s on 5 dice on my QS rolls when he shot at the DDA with his Hemlock.

Awesome, nice to hear that worked out well!

There are some really good tactics for the Veil of Darkness in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOurPnHRSWU

Anything else you guys come to think of?

Any thoughts on the idea of starting flayed ones on the table for use with the veil of darkness? At 4 attacks each+a leadership debuff flayed ones are much happier running into a screen than lychguard are, though they're also significantly more fragile in the return fire.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Any thoughts on the idea of starting flayed ones on the table for use with the veil of darkness? At 4 attacks each+a leadership debuff flayed ones are much happier running into a screen than lychguard are, though they're also significantly more fragile in the return fire.

I would say their main problem is the 9" charge, not the lack of a nearby HQ for bonuses.

torblind wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Any thoughts on the idea of starting flayed ones on the table for use with the veil of darkness? At 4 attacks each+a leadership debuff flayed ones are much happier running into a screen than lychguard are, though they're also significantly more fragile in the return fire.

I would say their main problem is the 9" charge, not the lack of a nearby HQ for bonuses.

I mean yeah, part of the reason you're using the Veil is that you can MWBD the flayed ones for a significantly more manageable 8" charge.

ah yes, the +1 to charge range would certainly be welcome. Raises it from 52% to 68% chance of success, (including a reroll)

It's certainly something to consider. You "lose" the deep strike option and you risk they get wethered down, but you probably have other mor einteresting shooting targets the first turn if you go second.

It sure is an interesting idea, but a 30% failure rate is not so good. You also have to consider scouting units that will block your "veiling".

I really like the veil because this is just one of many tactical options for it. You can either build your army or a single unit with it in mind or you can play very reactively with it.

We can just hope that the other relics in the codex will be as useful.

I I like the idea of Cryptek (VoD) + Zahndrekh w/ Obyron and Scytheguard. Somewhat based on the video psoted above. VoD the Cryptek and Zahndrekh, get Obyron to Ghostwalk mantle within 6" of Zahn and then you can "freely" deploy the Scytheguard around Obyron and more then 1" away from eenmy models. The charge range is now 4-2" depending and if MWBD via Zahn they get +1 to Charge. Basically imposible to fail the charge. Cryptek also give 5+ invul agaisnt Shooting making the Scytheguard more durable.

Only issue is the points cost and it's a very heavy Alpha Strike. You will always want Turn 1 to make this useful. Unless you deployed in cover for +1 save.

Price is way too high. That much point investment and you're only transporting a single unit up? Not worth it.

Cryptek, Zahndrekh, Obyron and 8 Scytheguard is 685pts. Bit to pricy at 1500pts or less but I feel like for 1750pts+ it's an okay cost for a "star" that can Re-deploy whenever you'd like. It can also be a reliable way to charge a specific enemy unit .You could spend 600-700 more for the Deceiver with 1-3 extra drops for more units.

I guess it won't be "effective" till we get a pts decrease.

torblind wrote:
ah yes, the +1 to charge range would certainly be welcome. Raises it from 52% to 68% chance of success, (including a reroll)

It's certainly something to consider. You "lose" the deep strike option and you risk they get wethered down, but you probably have other mor einteresting shooting targets the first turn if you go second.

Aldo - having slept on it, the targets that flayed ones want, are the same targets you should take care of with your Tesla Immortals, the Lychguard can opener fills a better need in your army

I agree with torblind. Better to use tesla Immortals. Haven't tried out Lychguard in 8th so I don't really have any opinion about them. Would you use Sword and Shields or Scythes? To get the offensive punch I would guess you have to use Scythes. How do they fare without invul saves?

I have tried the Deceiver and Veil and that works very well for repositioning your shooting units into optimal positions. Especially for Immortals where you can put them on objectives into cover closer to the enemy. It also makes gauss Immortals much more viable.

It's difficult to find a single killer combo, but that is they way it should be for all armies, not those auto include combos.

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
I agree with torblind. Better to use tesla Immortals. Haven't tried out Lychguard in 8th so I don't really have any opinion about them. Would you use Sword and Shields or Scythes? To get the offensive punch I would guess you have to use Scythes. How do they fare without invul saves?

I have tried the Deceiver and Veil and that works very well for repositioning your shooting units into optimal positions. Especially for Immortals where you can put them on objectives into cover closer to the enemy. It also makes gauss Immortals much more viable.

It's difficult to find a single killer combo, but that is they way it should be for all armies, not those auto include combos.

I played them against a tyranid genestealer list, giving them CC invulsave with Orikan. They held their ground well against the onslaught and cleared my base of incoming GS waves. I used warscythes.

Nice. Yeah I guess you have to have Orikan. Did you have an OL or Anrakyr too?

Anrakyr, and also CCB for the tesla immortaks. LG were complete monsters in cc but were eaten by smites when the scarabs were gone.

GS change to AP-3 on 6 to wound, so needed that invul also against them.

In the end I won by the closest imaginable margin.

Quite point intensive on characters, but as long as it works it's good. I usually only run a CCB and haven't used the named charachters in 8th a lot.

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
Quite point intensive on characters, but as long as it works it's good. I usually only run a CCB and haven't used the named charachters in 8th a lot.

True, this was my first game and I had a good idea on what I was up against, but it worked out not so bad. Anrakyr with S6 is nice as it lets him wound on 2s against T4. LG with A3 was good and when frontline warriors received the heat, they could hit back with 2 attacks each. With two Tesla immortals it was nice to both be able to give MWBD to the LG to handle this turn's genestealers, and for one more unit of Tesla immortals to fry them at a distance. Not easy to do the math if they made their points back, but against this list I felt it worked. Briefly written up here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3600/715040.page#9600309

@ Arach
If you want to do these things you mentioned with Flayed ones, might I suggest the following.

These suggestions might vary on the points...

If you have the points for it a Zhandrek + Obyron + Cryptek veil como is somewhat decent, especially if you're willing to deepstrike some deathmarks or forward place some screen with Deceiver.

But anyway, if you dont use Ctan at the start of the turn you give the flayed ones the MWBD and Transient madness buff. Then at end of move you have the Cryptek Veil Nemesor forward. After this you have Obyron Jump himself and flayed ones to the 6" bubble around Nemesor. This should get you to a 3 or 4 inch charge at your closest point with a +1 to charge distance from mwbd. Just make sure to conga your flayed ones so that they're in 3 inches of Obyron and the cryptek.

If you can afford to use the Deciever, then Grand illusion a ghost ark of leadership up and if you get above a 1 you can bring a 20 man warrior blob or 2 as well (help give you useful targets for mwbd's turn 2). If you're doing a central column of flayed ones you might as well bring the stormlord and Anrakyr for maximum flayed one effectiveness. At this point on your move you get to practically adjacent and then ghostwalk your flayed ones into a 1 inch charge (which may change dependent on shooting phase~).

Unfortunately in this variant your flayed ones wont be MWBD buffed unless you're willing to give up one of your buffs, or also use up your Veil once per game to TP your leader into the 9" range with your cryptek instead of keeping them in the ghost ark and getting them out in T1 move start. Unfortunately you're a little Overlord heavy at this point but I guess you could always phase in some Deathmarks to provide sniper support or even more flayed one squads to bring up the flanks within that 12" Stormlord bubble.

Lychguard bomb is probably worth the points, since it can cut through most things in the game. Unfortunately, since our Troops are really on the expensive side, if it gets shut down we don't really have the support to play the rest of the board as effectively. Usually if you're doing an all-in bomb you want lots of cheap things to flood objectives or bubble around them. So unless you're bringing 6+ units of Scarabs/Warriors we don't really do that, and they aren't that effective anyway.


Also on Lychguard, I'm wondering if just a Cryptek and a unit of Shields is decent to Veil forward. Hard to shift, can kill chaff since they have more attacks, can still be hit with MWBD by a CCB zooming up towards them.

Req -

You can always try a forward placement via Nemesor/ & Obyron initially and then after the initial engagement have your veil character who stuck with the group veil them to another point in the board to continue to keep the pressure on. Plus if it's a cryptek that allows you to go scythe and they'll still have an invul and better reanimation.

My thought is that Warscythes are overkill against a lot of things. Unless you're hunting Nid Monsters, usually 2 damage S7 is way more than necessary. When charging Chaff lines, or trying to clear Troops off of objectives, Hyperphase Swords have more attacks and the Shields work in combat, while the Chronometron doesn't. Not to mention that if you charge with the Lychguard they'll be out of range of the Cryptek anyway unless you give up killing power to congaline back.

Req -

Yeah I suppose it depends on what you're fighting. If it's not multi wound models or higher toughness yeah I agree.

Plus it's always a gamble to charge the cyptek in afterward but so long as he's second in line of the formation and you leave a spot open for him to get back into formation by touching the back of one of the infantry touching then they can support the melee. Just have them swing first so they dont pull away to negate his attacks.

But yeah if I was gonna put a leader on lychguard with shield it might be an overlord, if only so they have a dedicated MWBD source. It always feels weird for me to station a cryptek with a unit that doesn't need the invul save even if they could use the RP bonus since they're high value/multi wound models.

Requizen wrote:
My thought is that Warscythes are overkill against a lot of things. Unless you're hunting Nid Monsters, usually 2 damage S7 is way more than necessary. When charging Chaff lines, or trying to clear Troops off of objectives, Hyperphase Swords have more attacks and the Shields work in combat, while the Chronometron doesn't. Not to mention that if you charge with the Lychguard they'll be out of range of the Cryptek anyway unless you give up killing power to congaline back.

Don't forget FNP types of saves, DMG 2 means another 5+ to pass, so even against w1 models it would make sense


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lothmar wrote:
Req -

Yeah I suppose it depends on what you're fighting. If it's not multi wound models or higher toughness yeah I agree.

Plus it's always a gamble to charge the cyptek in afterward but so long as he's second in line of the formation and you leave a spot open for him to get back into formation by touching the back of one of the infantry touching then they can support the melee. Just have them swing first so they dont pull away to negate his attacks.

But yeah if I was gonna put a leader on lychguard with shield it might be an overlord, if only so they have a dedicated MWBD source. It always feels weird for me to station a cryptek with a unit that doesn't need the invul save even if they could use the RP bonus since they're high value/multi wound models.

Also if you're balsy you could advance the cryptek in front of the LG so that he'll be in range when they charge passed him

torblind wrote:
Also if you're balsy you could advance the cryptek in front of the LG so that he'll be in range when they charge passed him

Lychguard then fail the charge and your Cryptek gets buttsmacked.

Admittedly, you did say you have to be willing to take risks for that, so you probably knew that already.

 JNAProductions wrote:

torblind wrote:
Also if you're balsy you could advance the cryptek in front of the LG so that he'll be in range when they charge passed him

Lychguard then fail the charge and your Cryptek gets buttsmacked.

Admittedly, you did say you have to be willing to take risks for that, so you probably knew that already.

Yes, comes down to the charge range really, and how dire your situation is


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Requizen wrote:
My thought is that Warscythes are overkill against a lot of things. Unless you're hunting Nid Monsters, usually 2 damage S7 is way more than necessary. When charging Chaff lines, or trying to clear Troops off of objectives, Hyperphase Swords have more attacks and the Shields work in combat, while the Chronometron doesn't. Not to mention that if you charge with the Lychguard they'll be out of range of the Cryptek anyway unless you give up killing power to congaline back.

That was void blades getting the attack upgrade, not hyperphase swords, right? LG would swing the same amount of times regardless of load out, just trade damage for survivability

torblind wrote:

Requizen wrote:
My thought is that Warscythes are overkill against a lot of things. Unless you're hunting Nid Monsters, usually 2 damage S7 is way more than necessary. When charging Chaff lines, or trying to clear Troops off of objectives, Hyperphase Swords have more attacks and the Shields work in combat, while the Chronometron doesn't. Not to mention that if you charge with the Lychguard they'll be out of range of the Cryptek anyway unless you give up killing power to congaline back.

Don't forget FNP types of saves, DMG 2 means another 5+ to pass, so even against w1 models it would make sense

Not a bad point, but FNP is pretty rare outside of Death Guard and some Blood Angel models, and even then I would need to do the math to see if more attacks would be better anyways.

Also that tyranid spell, catalyst? I had a swarmlord catapult 20 fresh genestealers into my deployment zone 4 turns in a row, LG with DMG 2 made him use catalyst on something else. Felt great but admittedly situational.

Ah true, there are some spells and Stratagems that can give it out as well.

I'm still just mad you can't mix and match. Seems logical.

S&B LG worked wonders for me in a game this past weekend. Between them and a unit of wraiths, they soaked a full alpha strike from a massive unit of Death Company utilizing every character buff and stratagem available. I lost 5 of the LG then veiled them out on my turn to support another unit and have a little time to Rez back up. Shot the remaining DC to pieces.

As much as I do like my LG, it always burns me that we pay 15 pts for a 4+ invuln, while SM get a 3+ for 5 pts.

But did you say hyperphase swords have more attacks? (Asking in case I missed that FAQ) I only knew about void blades

torblind wrote:
But did you say hyperphase swords have more attacks? (Asking in case I missed that FAQ) I only knew about void blades

Ah crap you're right, it's Voidblades not Hyperphase Swords that get the extra attack. So... disregard what I said. Warscythes are better, but Shields probably still come in handy depending on who you're facing.

Requizen wrote:

torblind wrote:
But did you say hyperphase swords have more attacks? (Asking in case I missed that FAQ) I only knew about void blades

Ah crap you're right, it's Voidblades not Hyperphase Swords that get the extra attack. So... disregard what I said. Warscythes are better, but Shields probably still come in handy depending on who you're facing.

Yeah, seems DC alpha might be such a case.

I always wanted S&B LG to be viable, perhaps running them across the board with Kutlakh, but haven't really seen it yet.

Where does it say that voidblade gets an extra attack?

For the (Large) Gauss Pylon, although Titanic lets it fire its main profile without BS penalty, does its non-focused version still suffer a penalty to hit if it deep struck that turn?

Lothmar wrote:
Where does it say that voidblade gets an extra attack?

Xenos 1 FAQ. Can find it on the Community site.

req: Thanks...

Awh man, QS doesn't prevent Mortal wounds? Dang...

Guess it's not our unique flavor of Feel no pain. :(

Lothmar wrote:
req: Thanks...

Awh man, QS doesn't prevent Mortal wounds? Dang...

Guess it's not our unique flavor of Feel no pain. :(

Mortal wounds are dealt one at a time, so it can't.

So what is the general consensus on the order that QS and Enduring will happen in. The way its worded makes me think think QS happens and then enduring will takes effect if QS fails. Thoughts?

sieGermans wrote:
For the (Large) Gauss Pylon, although Titanic lets it fire its main profile without BS penalty, does its non-focused version still suffer a penalty to hit if it deep struck that turn?

Don't think Titanic has anything to do with it.

The focused version is Macro D6 so no penalty. The other profile is Heavy 2D6 so penalty for this.

Greetings fellow mechanical overlords!

Long-time Guard player here who got to try out my buddy's Necron army.
Here's a short battle report of my first time trying Necrons vs Iron Hands.

1500 Iron Hands VS 1800 Necrons (we have a houserule where non-codex armies get +20% points for their army)

Battalion Detachment:

HQ's:
-CCB /w Tesla Cannon, Phase Sword and Resurrection Orb, Veil of Darkness (Warlord)

-Overlord /w Phase Sword

-Cryptek

Troops:
2x 12 Warriors
10 Immortals /w Tesla

Elites:
10x Lychguard /w Phase Sword and shields

Fast Attack
3x Tomb Blades /w Gaus, Shieldvanes and Nebulascope

Heavy Support
Doomsday Ark

Flyer
Doomscythe


So the general idea behind this list was the following:
1: CCB along with the Lychguard deepstrikes into his line with the Veil of Darkness.
2: Overlord /w Immortals for Tesla combo.
3: Doomsday and Doomscythe for anti-tank.


The Iron hands were a mix of some Primaris marines /w Plasma, three Dreadnoughts (some nasty Forgeworld ones, can't remember their names), a Captain and a Librarian.


Deployment zone: Hammer and Anvil

Iron Hands got first turn, moved up the board and shot some Immortals, nothing too spectacular (though the AP-4 from the Primaris plasma is... autsj!)
Aaaaand that was when I found out that a CCB isn't a character. woops! Got shot by a dakka-dread, but a 6 on the dmg roll from a Lascannon meant Quantum Shielding saved the mishap.

Necrons, turn 1:
Reanimation Protocols brought back one Immortal even with the Cryptek nearby, meh.
Moved everything up, sadly had to advance my Immortals in order to even shoot anything, making the Tesla combo less effective.
Tomb Blades zoomed forward and got in rapid-fire range of his Hellblasters. Shóuld have killed two of them, but my opponent made a lot of his Iron Hand FnP saves. Only one casualty.

Both the Doomsday ark and the Doomscythe rolled a lot of hits, but all my opponent's dreadnoughts had 5++. Along with the 6+ FnP (or even the DOUBLE 6+ FnP for one dread) meant little damage was done to them.

Lychguard + CCB Deepstruck forward and with a lucky charge roll (and MWBD helping) charged my opponents Librarian, cutting him to pieces. Also tied up his dakka-dread, only to find out it's still pretty kick-ass on close combat and killing three Lychguard.

Iron Hands, turn 2:
Dakka-dread fell back and his entire army unloaded into the Lychguard. A final blow from the charging Captain finished them.
CCB took a serious blow from a nearby melee-dread, though lived thanks to the Necron warlord trait.
More Immortals shot up by the Primaris Plasma.

Necrons, turn 2:
Using the Reanimation stratagem and the Cryptek, I was hoping to bring back some of my 6 fallen Immortals. A bad roll meant only one got back :(.
Moved up again, this time in range with the Immortals. Brought down two Primaris Marines with about 18 shots.
A warrior squad was duking it out with another Primaris Squad, slowly losing but holding an objective.
More fire from the Ark and Scythe, good rolls on the amount of hits but eventually only one wound got through. Rolling fairly low on the damage + enemy's FnP save meant little damage done again.

Iron Hands, turn 3:
With the Lychguard out of the way and the distance closed, the Iron Hands really poured it on this round.
Melee-dread that roughed up the CCB now found the Cryptek and ripped him in half.
Dakka-dread shot up the Doomscythe, though Living Metal meant he could fire normally the next turn.
Tomb Blades took a bunch of plasma and bolter fire, eventually going down to melee combat from a primaris squad.
Immortals got tied up by another Dreadnought.

Necrons turn 3:
At this point it was gonna be tough to come back (not to mention the horrible cards I drew for the Maelstorm of War missions, but oh well).
Immortals fell back and the Overlord moved forward to take on the Dread (bad idea).
Warriors slowly started winning the stalemate thanks to a decent reanimation roll (5 dead, got 3 back).
Doomsday Ark and Doomscythe again opened fire on the melee dread, but, again, low rolls on the dmg and my opponent's double FnP save meant little damage.

I shook my opponents hand and told him, despite a major defeat for the Necrons, I really enjoyed the game.

Post-match thoughts:
1: Lack of anti-tank. Definitely need to bring more anti-tank. Thinking of bringing a Triach Stalker with a Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon. Probably drop the Doomscythe for it.

2: Don't forget your Resurrection Orb, stupid!

3: Definitely should have dropped my Warrior squads to a minimum of 10. This would have meant an extra Tomb Blade which would have helped out quite a bit.

4: Take Warscythes on the Lychguard. If I had those I could have really done a number on one of his Dreads. Although it did cost my opponent an entire turn of shooting to take them down. Hm...

5: Taking the CCB was... interesting. While it wasn't my intention to put him out of the open, Quantum Shielding + Necron Warlord Trait meant he could tank a LOT of hits. Though risky, perhaps it can be used to bait out shots from your opponent?

6: Thinking of taking 3 Heavy Destroyers instead of the Doomsday Ark. They will bring more reliable anti-tank to the table, though they will definitely be squishier and cannot benefit from the Stalker's reroll 1's to hit.

The CCB is a character, it's been FAQ'ed

You should really glance through, there's a couple of important changes


Automatically Appended Next Post:
.. but it's great that you enjoyed it! And welcome to the metal heads hangout

torblind wrote:
The CCB is a character, it's been FAQ'ed

You should really glance through, there's a couple of important changes


Automatically Appended Next Post:
.. but it's great that you enjoyed it! And welcome to the metal heads hangout

Ah yea, looking at the FAQ as we speak. Oh well, first game and it actually worked in my favour xD.

Anyone tried a list of Maynarkh yet? Hows the world killer and the blinded so far?

Tested the Gauss Pylon versus Morty last night. Sadly, that 4++ decimated the Pylon’s effectiveness.

Lance -

I've done a couple before the CA.
Admittedly now with CA I kind of want to try a Toholk + CCB so that it will have 1d3 heal, Quantum shielding and Dr 1 min 1 after QS.
Anyone else think this would be a good idea or any other things we can do to improve CCB?

But yeah, they're ok~... v *thoughts on the matter* v

Doctoralex wrote:

Post-match thoughts:
1: Lack of anti-tank. Definitely need to bring more anti-tank. Thinking of bringing a Triach Stalker with a Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon. Probably drop the Doomscythe for it.

2: Don't forget your Resurrection Orb, stupid!

3: Definitely should have dropped my Warrior squads to a minimum of 10. This would have meant an extra Tomb Blade which would have helped out quite a bit.

4: Take Warscythes on the Lychguard. If I had those I could have really done a number on one of his Dreads. Although it did cost my opponent an entire turn of shooting to take them down. Hm...

5: Taking the CCB was... interesting. While it wasn't my intention to put him out of the open, Quantum Shielding + Necron Warlord Trait meant he could tank a LOT of hits. Though risky, perhaps it can be used to bait out shots from your opponent?

6: Thinking of taking 3 Heavy Destroyers instead of the Doomsday Ark. They will bring more reliable anti-tank to the table, though they will definitely be squishier and cannot benefit from the Stalker's reroll 1's to hit.

I'll address some of these quickly:

1) We don't really have anti-tank at the moment. Stalker is probably the best one (since it helps other units and has some defensibility), but we really aren't the army that can kill a Razorback per turn without some serious luck.

4) You'd probably be disappointed in Warscythes as well. Still just as slow unless you do some expensive teleport shenanigans, and people will take great care to keep them at range once they learn the Warscythe profile.

5) As torblind said, FAQ makes the CCB a character, which makes him a more interesting take. Unfortunately, he still lacks punch but is very durable with hiding + stats.

6) Heavy Destroyers are more reliable (sort of, depending on the situation), but crumble to anyone shooting multi-damage guns. Again, we don't really have good anti-tank.

req - 5) Maybe we'll get lucky on codex release and CCB will get hovering stats like our Destroyers/monolith etc and we can then use that Gauss more reliably. Doubt it but a Phaeron can hope to pimp his ride cant he?

Also mention the Tesseract Ark from the Forgeworld index, fills the role of the Doomsday ark except for extreme ranges, and does a better job at it

I was just out walking the dogs and the thought came to me. What do you think of the prospect of a destroyer base as a wargear piece that could be taken by any Necron infantry piece that could be integrated or simply ridden like a cavalry mount?

v More on this idea v

torblind wrote:
Also mention the Tesseract Ark from the Forgeworld index, fills the role of the Doomsday ark except for extreme ranges, and does a better job at it

Yeah I'm a bit split on the codex.

On one hand, every codex released so far has been pretty solid, fluffy, and fairly close in power level. Some are higher up (CSM, Guard),but mostly on a similar power level.

On the other hand, they clearly had no idea with our Index, to the point where we're near the bottom of the pile even compared to other Index armies. So I don't know if they'll do any better with the Codex.

Only time will tell :\

Lothmar wrote:
I was just out walking the dogs and the thought came to me

Well it scores high on crazy. Andi would require complicated new models from GW to represent it, don't think there is much presence for that kind of flexibility in 40k at least. But hey, would fix the speed and lack of transportation. But style wise it sounds more like dark Eldar

@Tor - I dont think it'd be that complicated.

Basically it'd mostly be a matter of assembling the various bits into their various combinations with a destroyer base instead of legs. Or the much more simpler option that you sell the platforms separate from destroyers and then you purchase the units and its up to you how you assemble.

ex: Sell destroyer platforms as riding mounts and then stand your already existing units on them. (or if you' are like me and hardly use destroyers anymore just remove the skeleton part and use them instead)

If they really wanted to make some alteration so they could sell it as 'Necron Repulsor/cavalry Platform' or something then they could add a circular recess to set an infantry base. But yeah im certain there are people out there with bits that could kit bash already existing destroyers like this.

That would actually be a really easy conversion. Just attach the torso of whatever model you're upgrading the the Destroyer platform instead of the normal legs.

Aight, fellow Phaerons.

I've been taking my Maynarkh dynasty to war in a campaign between friends where we build from PL25 and then add but never remove models.
I started with this on PL25 (it is PL24)

And upgraded to PL35 (actually PL34) like so:

Next milestone is PL50 and I was thinking about adding some much needed AT, knowing that end of February will be 1250pts, so no longer PL.
Considering what I have I could get to 1250pts with the following:

This would net me1238pts (I could add another warrior to the warrior squad I started with to have 1250)
Now for the PL50 goal I'd just add the sentinel or the acanthrites, together with 2 Destroyers or 6 Scarabs.
However, as I also play against Eldar that have Wraithguard, Wraithblades and a Wraithseer at their PL50, I feel like I might be lacking survivability with my Forgeworld Canopteks, as they don't have invulnerability saves...

Did you find the Acanthrites or Sentinel to be resilient or not at all? I could try tying some up with Wraiths or Scarabs, but that won't last forever.

Cheers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I actually decided to not buy Sentinel + Acanthrites but rather Tesseract Ark + Tomb Sentinel.

 EnTyme wrote:
That would actually be a really easy conversion. Just attach the torso of whatever model you're upgrading the the Destroyer platform instead of the normal legs.

Definitely easy to convert.

Just remember that GW sells perfectly and carefully constructed kits with great detail, with assembly instructions that put lego kits to shame, and now we're talking about something that's supposed to combine with any infantry model for an optional ride? I don't see GW doing that just yet

DaK -

Is the spyder running as a repair bot with fab claw for the Triarch (the TS gained a chance to explode now so sadly no longer no risk to pair them), or is it on forward advance as distraction and Scarab replenishment (Kind of wish there was a way to fix the speed differences to make this kind of thing a more valid strat like +1 " move to a max of 10 per scarab in 1-3 inches of the spyder as they carry it along)?

Considering what you currently have, I'd say probably add 3 more wraiths to make a bigger wraith squad in my opinion and give them pistols since you can still shoot those in melee and then the wraith can also take advantage of the TS. Im mainly saying this cause of the new strat from chapter approved that lets you give RP to Canoptek units for a turn.

Although a large mob of arcanthrites would also be decent for the above reason, sure they're not as tough as Wraiths in the save sense but they are a little harder to hit and can put out more damage.

I might also suggest putting 10 more warriors into that group if only to get max shots off and best use out of the veil of darkness that I assume you're running on that cryptek. Maybe run a CCB as well so it can quickly catch up to the warriors to MWBD them and provide some minor fire support. CCB is very tanky right now since it's a character and has QS (so Wraiths and Tomb blades make excellent screen for it and even Praetorians, destroyers or scarabs to a lesser extent cause of speed differential).

If you stack that with the new warlord trait to reduce damage coming into it (assuming you fail your QS first) to minimum 1 and play Toholk (since you mentioned the May dynasty) then it's also got a D3 living metal bonus and could be repaired by a spyder for another d3 if positioned / manuevered right.

Lothmar wrote:
Is the spyder running as a repair bot with fab claw for the Triarch (the TS gained a chance to explode now so sadly no longer no risk to pair them), or is it on forward advance as distraction and Scarab replenishment (Kind of wish there was a way to fix the speed differences to make this kind of thing a more valid strat like +1 " move to a max of 10 per scarab in 1-3 inches of the spyder as they carry it along)?

Considering what you currently have, I'd say probably add 3 more wraiths to make a bigger wraith squad in my opinion and give them pistols since you can still shoot those in melee and then the wraith can also take advantage of the TS. Im mainly saying this cause of the new strat from chapter approved that lets you give RP to Canoptek units for a turn.

Although a large mob of arcanthrites would also be decent for the above reason, sure they're not as tough as Wraiths in the save sense but they are a little harder to hit and can put out more damage.

I don't feel that -1 to hit will help it stay alive, and 9 acanthrites get you 14 Wraiths tho...
DId you have succes with the single shot S6 AP0 D1 pistols on Wraiths?

Between Acanthrites and the Tomb Sentinel, what would you pick? Same price, but tomb sentinels look WAAAAY cooler (plus I want to make Toholk, who designed the damn thing)

And Oh yes, the Spyder is repair for the TS and maybe for a TA later.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lothmar wrote:
DaK -
I might also suggest putting 10 more warriors into that group if only to get max shots off and best use out of the veil of darkness that I assume you're running on that cryptek. Maybe run a CCB as well so it can quickly catch up to the warriors to MWBD them and provide some minor fire support. CCB is very tanky right now since it's a character and has QS (so Wraiths and Tomb blades make excellent screen for it and even Praetorians, destroyers or scarabs to a lesser extent cause of speed differential).

If you stack that with the new warlord trait to reduce damage coming into it (assuming you fail your QS first) to minimum 1 and play Toholk (since you mentioned the May dynasty) then it's also got a D3 living metal bonus and could be repaired by a spyder for another d3 if positioned / manuevered right.

Was even thinking of putting that trait on a DLord, it wouldn't hurt his 4++

I actually do have a lot of success with the pistols. Sure they're less effective against higher armor, but being able to shoot in the shooting phase rather then twiddle my thumbs is nice (unless I needed that advance to help ensure my charge). Most effective vs Guard T'shirts. *chuckle*

Plus being able to shoot your range weapon even if you're locked in combat can always help tip a battle in your favor in my opinion. Compared to the TransBeam which is heavy so not worth taking in my opinion and the Whip coil being an even weaker attack then the Wraiths normal but only goes off when you die and only assuming you haven't already attacked that turn.

DL - True, 6 wounds and 3+ saves and phylactery option~ not too bad either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forget, can bikers take advantage of cover? Or is it 'only first floor cover'?

INFANTRY can take advantage of cover if inside it.
NON-INFANTRY models only get the cover when 25% (or was it 50) obscured.
Therefore, Destroyers could for example use cover, as they are INFANTRY.
Wraiths on the other hand, being BEASTS, need to be obscured (but who cares with their 3++) :p

Just making sure, was considering an outrider detachment build and was trying to remember how to play the bikes we have.

Thinking of Running a destroyer wing and lord, a CCB, some Tomb blades all of which to screen for the leadership. (maybe throw Toholk in there as well if only for the phylactery on CCB and the free reroll on seize but sadly he cant take the veil so cant show up/keep up when the Destroyers will likely need him.) If the screen works decent enough may just not take Toholk and instead bring a normal cryptek so he can veil in with some warriors/immortals/something when needed for extra fire support and to help restrore a unit once it's been rendered to 1/2 or 1/3 or lower model count...

I imagine due to the speed the Tomb blades would jockey to the front and the Destroyers would soon become the rear, after which i'd have to reduce the Tomb blades and CCB's speeds slightly so as not to open too much of a hole in the formation... The destroyers being a decent screen if only for the fact they're infantry with close enough speed to remain in that 12" MWBD range so they hit on 2's and reroll 1's.

Will have to mess with this a little with some figs or digitally to see if it works like im thinking it would...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lost the spoiler with the wording breakdown screenshot on the Veil. Was it 'Friendly necron infantry' or does it restrict you to 'dynasty infantry'?

Just wanting to know for Praetorians since I can easily just send them on their way after arrival in a potential charge since they dont get any leadership abilities. Basically just got to make sure I tp into another screening zone to support it etc.

 DaKhriS wrote:
INFANTRY can take advantage of cover if inside it.
NON-INFANTRY models only get the cover when 25% (or was it 50) obscured.
Therefore, Destroyers could for example use cover, as they are INFANTRY.
Wraiths on the other hand, being BEASTS, need to be obscured (but who cares with their 3++) :p

Well. you'd think they could have had 2+ in cover, until you check their profile, which says Sv 4+, so if you managed to get cover bouns to save, you'd still end up back at 3+ anyway, where you already are with the invul

Acanthrites benefit more from cover due to a natural 3+ save. They are big though so only viable in units of 6 or less. Unless you use lots of LOS blocking Terrain and Terrain that can cover the unit over 50%. Still if successful you get -1 to hit and a 2+ save which is better then 3++ unless in CC. Both have different roles though.

Wraiths hold up things in CC and survive better then CC but Acanthrites are S5 murder machines and the 12" Melta isn't to bad as it is also an assault Weapon. Plus, fly keyword. Charge a Rhino and Eldar Wave Serpant, fall back and shoot as if nothing happened.

Lothmar wrote:
Just making sure, was considering an outrider detachment build and was trying to remember how to play the bikes we have.

Thinking of Running a destroyer wing and lord, a CCB, some Tomb blades all of which to screen for the leadership. (maybe throw Toholk in there as well if only for the phylactery on CCB and the free reroll on seize but sadly he cant take the veil so cant show up/keep up when the Destroyers will likely need him.) If the screen works decent enough may just not take Toholk and instead bring a normal cryptek so he can veil in with some warriors/immortals/something when needed for extra fire support and to help restrore a unit once it's been rendered to 1/2 or 1/3 or lower model count...

I imagine due to the speed the Tomb blades would jockey to the front and the Destroyers would soon become the rear, after which i'd have to reduce the Tomb blades and CCB's speeds slightly so as not to open too much of a hole in the formation... The destroyers being a decent screen if only for the fact they're infantry with close enough speed to remain in that 12" MWBD range so they hit on 2's and reroll 1's.

Will have to mess with this a little with some figs or digitally to see if it works like im thinking it would...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lost the spoiler with the wording breakdown screenshot on the Veil. Was it 'Friendly necron infantry' or does it restrict you to 'dynasty infantry'?

Just wanting to know for Praetorians since I can easily just send them on their way after arrival in a potential charge since they dont get any leadership abilities. Basically just got to make sure I tp into another screening zone to support it etc.

How about if you give the D-Lord the relic and have him grab Toholk


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Odrankt wrote:
Acanthrites benefit more from cover due to a natural 3+ save. They are big though so only viable in units of 6 or less. Unless you use lots of LOS blocking Terrain and Terrain that can cover the unit over 50%. Still if successful you get -1 to hit and a 2+ save which is better then 3++ unless in CC. Both have different roles though.

Wraiths hold up things in CC and survive better then CC but Acanthrites are S5 murder machines and the 12" Melta isn't to bad as it is also an assault Weapon. Plus, fly keyword. Charge a Rhino and Eldar Wave Serpant, fall back and shoot as if nothing happened.

If ya fall back to shoot you stay out of combat and are therefore likely to get shot, and with me facing Wraithcannons and D-Scythes that have AP-4, they won't be buzzin for long :p (neither would the sentinel tho)

I think 2x3 Heavy Destroyers + DLord might do some anti-tank things. We can hide them, then move in our turn with rerols 1s. They are very easy to kill but i think we can create more interesting targets with Immortals + Deveiver teleport + meat shield them with scarabs

Lothmar wrote:
I was just out walking the dogs and the thought came to me. What do you think of the prospect of a destroyer base as a wargear piece that could be taken by any Necron infantry piece that could be integrated or simply ridden like a cavalry mount?

v More on this idea v

Spoiler:

Basically any non destroyer unit taking it would become a destroyer / calvalry variant ex: Deathmark Destroyer/cavalry, Warrior Destroyer/cavalry, Lychguard Destroyer/cavalry, etc.

Mechanics effect. Im thinking this would give +1 or 2 wounds (1 for Calvary, 2 for integrating into body), 10" move for integrated body, 12" for calvary and Hardwired Hatred for integrated models.

Maybe give Repulsor platforms option that rapid fire weapons the ability to fire even after advance like an Assault weapon ( Perhaps this could be the bonus a non integrated calvary unit gets instead of hardwired hatred because the platform handles the dedicated movement while the unit just focuses on fighting).

Or instead the option to dismount the hover platform and send it hurtling at your opponents as a once per battle attack?

You just described 3rd ed destroyer lords. Only lords could take a destroyer body, but its the same sort of idea.
Not sure about any necron infantry. Do you mean as a squad upgrade or individual models? The former is more viable from a gameplay perspective, as dealing with mixed profiles and move stats is a pain.
The main problem I have with your idea is if it were that accessible then there would be no reason to have necrons on foot, which drastically changes the theme and feel of the army.

I would rather have a different variant of destroyer that fulfils a certain niche, such as melee orientated destroyers who are supposed to be used in conjunction with destroyer lords, or a type of destroyer armed with AoE weapons for an anti-hoard role. Like a flamethrower or something. Maybe something radiation based, because science. I mean, admech gets radiation, and they are only half machine.

Destroyers are supposed come with a variety of weapons and are obsessed with killing, so only having 2 destroyer types who are only good at taking on specific targets (heavy infantry and vehicles) and a character doesn't really do their lore justice.

Hey guys, I've been a Death Guard/Blood Angel player through most of my time in 40k but recently Necrons have peaked my interest. Was wandering if they're worth playing atm, now that CA has come out with some new rules for them. Are they capable of keeping up with the other codices and are they fun?

Cheers

 Tiberius501 wrote:
now that CA has come out with some new rules for them. Are they capable of keeping up with the other codices

Very much, no.
Necrons are currently rated bottom tier, competitively.

Fun is subjective, but if you like guys that have the potential to come back from the dead every turn (provided your opponent doesn't know how to counter that ability), then yes, Necrons could be fun.

Personally, I would wait until February-ish, when it's assumed the new codex will be out... but even then, I'd suggest checking to see if they fixed enough of the problems to make them half decent before fully committing to buying a whole new army of them (though, if the way C.A turned out is any indication of what to expect, I don't have big hopes for the 'Cron book).

Now army commitment shouldn't be about the current competitive level. It should be about interest. I say go ahead and build an army, proxy some units, play some games, discuss lore and tactics and try to see how fun you can make of it.

If it sticks, go all in! They'll be back in greater strength eventually and then it will be that much sweeter

 skoffs wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
now that CA has come out with some new rules for them. Are they capable of keeping up with the other codices

Very much, no.
Necrons are currently rated bottom tier, competitively.

Fun is subjective, but if you like guys that have the potential to come back from the dead every turn (provided your opponent doesn't know how to counter that ability), then yes, Necrons could be fun.

Personally, I would wait until February-ish, when it's assumed the new codex will be out... but even then, I'd suggest checking to see if they fixed enough of the problems to make them half decent before fully committing to buying a whole new army of them (though, if the way C.A turned out is any indication of what to expect, I don't have big hopes for the 'Cron book).

Ah that's a shame :/ I had a plan to make my Dynasty all overgrown and stuff with grass and moss and such. I do like the idea of constantly replenishing units but if they're not good to play currently the I'll wait. Thanks for the info


Automatically Appended Next Post:

torblind wrote:
Now army commitment shouldn't be about the current competitive level. It should be about interest. I say go ahead and build an army, proxy some units, play some games, discuss lore and tactics and try to see how fun you can make of it.

If it sticks, go all in! They'll be back in greater strength eventually and then it will be that much sweeter

Yeah this is true, but my most common opponent is a Dark Angel player who spams plasma :/

Heya

My wife will start with necrons. We're both new so i can't help her.

Whats a good start for 500-1000 Points? She bought a Start Collecting and now we think about what could be good. Can you give us a tipp? A must have or something?

Greetings an Thanks

Tyri wrote:
Heya

My wife will start with necrons. We're both new so i can't help her.

Whats a good start for 500-1000 Points? She bought a Start Collecting and now we think about what could be good. Can you give us a tipp? A must have or something?

Greetings an Thanks

Immortals should probably be the first buy. Warriors are the "backbone" of the army but Immortals are like the muscle structure - you kind of need both.

Wraiths are generally a good purchase. They work well in pretty much any list and also are cool models.

I personally would recommend checking out one of the C'tan Shards. They're a bit hit or miss but they're pretty strong and go well with the Wraiths.

After that, maybe a Catacomb Command Barge is also a decent pick. She can "upgrade" her Overlord to ride in one and it's basically a souped up version of him.

On the subject of new Necron players has there been any confirmed info about a new codex besides the "not much in Chapter Approved - hope for one in Jan/Feb". I know GW is a lot tighter on rumours now and I don't recall a news post by them about releases coming in the new year relating to new codex orders and the like.

And googling just throws up a complicated mess of prior results for new codex and codex wishlists.

 Overread wrote:
On the subject of new Necron players has there been any confirmed info about a new codex besides the "not much in Chapter Approved - hope for one in Jan/Feb". I know GW is a lot tighter on rumours now and I don't recall a news post by them about releases coming in the new year relating to new codex orders and the like.

And googling just throws up a complicated mess of prior results for new codex and codex wishlists.

There's no "real" news but the fact that Tau and Necrons got nothing in CA feels pretty telling. The other armies that got no points are Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Daemons - who are all confirmed to be getting Codices or have already received them.

Unless GW thought Necrons and Tau are perfectly balanced as is, but they've taken feedback on literally every other army so that feels unlikely.

Dak - The relic is only 1x use so if I kept DL back to port Toholk later he wouldn't be around to buff the Destroyer screen for the CCB. That and T's low movement then slows the whole formation down to accomodate him. Granted once in range/position that's another story.

Art - If you're keeping them stationary you can give them a cryptek for enhanced rp (since coming back puts you at full wounds that makes bring them back very valuable) and some invul saves just in case you get hit by 3 or higher AP weaponry so at least you have some chance of save. Heck if it's a big enough building you could do 2 squads of 3 this way if you really wanted to.

Cth - Neat to know, I only started them I think 7th ed (maybe 6th?) so I don’t know much about their older editions.
Correct it would be a full squad purchase.
Main reason I could see still running some on foot is we've got decent porting capabilities, plus point cost would probably make it that if we got rid of our mobility weakness then we'd probably have far less then our normal model count of walking units.
Yeah I like the idea of more weapon options. But yeah if destroyer bodies were available for all types then you could do this by simply augmenting the correct support unit.

Tyri wrote:
Heya

My wife will start with necrons. We're both new so i can't help her.

Whats a good start for 500-1000 Points? She bought a Start Collecting and now we think about what could be good. Can you give us a tipp? A must have or something?

Greetings an Thanks

more scarabs if you can get them


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And your wife got into Necrons? Hold on to that woman!

With the new rules feedback email, what do you guys think about setting up a collaboratory and structured feedback Memorandum emailed in PDF format and gathering poll results for each highlighted issue or query?

Something like:

(Results based on data collected from Dakka Dakka participants)

Issue 1: Stuff happens in game
Based on poll data, this happens X times per Y number of games for Z% of the poll participants.
This was identified to be worth reviewing by H% of poll participants.
N# solutions were suggested following discussion and breakdown of popularity was as follows: N1: S%, N2: F%, etc.
Highlighted discussion points included the following...


What do you think?

I'm not sure. I suspect priority of issues may come down to quantity of feedbacks rather than quality. 100 individuals voicing the same concern in their own words might appear more important than a fancy civil letter claiming to represent those 100


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necron players voting favorably on necron improvemens I don't think will impress anyone, try to keep the polls on problems occuring perhaps, as you describe.

Eg 90% players report loosing all their heavy destroyers in turn 1 or 2, causing them to stop using them.

100% of necron players stopped using tolb world deployment because of the high risk of loosing the unit etc

torblind wrote:

Tyri wrote:
Heya

My wife will start with necrons. We're both new so i can't help her.

Whats a good start for 500-1000 Points? She bought a Start Collecting and now we think about what could be good. Can you give us a tipp? A must have or something?

Greetings an Thanks

more scarabs if you can get them


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And your wife got into Necrons? Hold on to that woman!

Thank you, i'll try it

Btw: This scrabs she can only get in the start collecting? Maybe she should get 2 of them,

They're actually on the warriors sprues. You get a scarab base for every 4 warriors, so a warriors kit gives you three scarabs as well.

Scarabs are sold with the Necron Warriors. So in the getting started box and in the necron warrior box as well.

A second getting started box isn't a bad idea as each one gives you a free Necron Lord (compared to buying all the individual models outside of the getting started kit).

The getting started kit is also likely to change when the new codex comes out at some point next year (all the other factions have had a new getting started kit released).


That said she likely won't need more than two getting started boxed sets. Whilst the warriors are always good you don't need a legion of lords; meanwhile the stalker appears to currently be present in very smal numbers in many collections
At least according to the results in this thread https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/746349.page *


* I oft find collection threads interesting because whilst they have no tactical basis, they do give a rough idea what is and isn't popular and what kind of counts people have.

Stalkers aren't bad, but like everything else in our book they're expensive and you probably won't run multiple (running 2 is a lot).

As far as I remember, Eldar and Tyranids were the only armies with existing Start Collecting kits that received a new ones with their codex update. Am I forgetting some?

So how's this for a 750pt list:

HQ
- Command Barge w/ Warscythe and Gauss Cannon

TROOP
- 18x Warriors

ELITE
- Tomb Stalker

FAST ATTACK
- 3x Wraiths
- 6x Scarabs

I'm saying the fluff behind it is that my Tomb World is only just waking up so mostly just the Canoptek units are defending against whoever has unfortunately uncovered their Tomb, while the Lord and some warriors have woken up to see what's up

You should work on the fluff, atleast the Lord/warriors part

epaemil wrote:
You should work on the fluff, atleast the Lord/warriors part

Haha yeah that's true.
The Lord wants to exact revenge on a certain Ultramarine sergeant. In a game of Black Crusade (converted to loyalists) the setting was a warp storm over a planet (which was a world belonging to the Overlord's Dynisty, who he was trying to wake up) and, long story short, the lord in his ship crashed due to the storm and his repairings were slowed right down due to the storm being funky. The group found him on the bridge and while he gave them a run for their money, the barely alive Ultramarine sergeant finished him off with a melta bomb that also imploded the ship (they ended up in the equivalent of an engine room). So after regenerating within this Tomb World (can they do that?), he's taking the warriors who've woken up the most, along with a group of Canoptek units, to face them again and bumped into the group of reinforcements.

Thats much better, you should write a novel about that lord and his adventures

So I had a look at the necron entry in chapter approved.

Can't give too much away, for forum rules reasons, but I can say that the veil of darkness is back as a relic, and its a one use item. So yay?

Canopteks get a strategem that helps them survive a little, and another strategem directly buffs RP

Warlords get something that buffs their durability as well. Seems to be a theme with the necron update.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So I had a look at the necron entry in chapter approved.

Can't give too much away, for forum rules reasons, but I can say that the veil of darkness is back as a relic, and its a one use item. So yay?

Canopteks get a strategem that helps them survive a little, and another strategem directly buffs RP

Warlords get something that buffs their durability as well. Seems to be a theme with the necron update.

They were discussed to some detail in this thread around the date the reviews started ticking in, couple of pages bck

Howdy folks! It's your Guard commander (temporary) turned Necron commander with another battle report!

Necrons VS Craftworld Eldar (Alaitoc), 1800 vs 1500 points.

Necron battalion:

HQ:
Iluminor Szeras
Overlord /w Resurrection Orb (warlord, Enduring Will)

Troops:
10x immortals /w Tesla
15x warriors
15x warriors

Elites:
C'tan shard of the Nightbringer
10 Lychguard /w sword&shield
Triach Stalker

Fast Attack:
3x Scarabs
3x Scarabs

Heavy Support:
Doomsday Ark

Eldar list:
Ilic Nightspear (the sniper character)
Farseer
2x Warlock
Dark Reaper character

3x 5 dire avengers
3x5 rangers

8x Wraithguard with D-scythes
7x Dark Reapers

2x Fire Prisms

1x Wave Serpent


I finished deploying first and got first turn. However, since the eldar can deploy his Rangers (and has placed his Wraithguard in the Webway) It was difficult for me to deploy my army properly.

I hid my C'tan all the way in the back since that had the only LoS blocking terrain in my deployment. I was too scared of all those Rangers + Illic sniping him in one turn.

Necrons, turn 1:

Warriors and immortals moved up, claiming a total of three objective markers and being in range of well, at least SOMETHING! it felt like a good start.

Szeras, with a CP re-roll, upgraded a Warrior squad to BS 2+, sweet.
I decided to keep the Overlord + Lychguard in the back
and in anticipation of the deepstriking Wraithguard. Same for the C'tan, still way too many snipers at large and no targets for him in sight.

Combined fire of Warriors + the Stalker killed about 6 rangers over two squads. The DDA whiffed after rolling a 1 on the D3, even with a CP re-roll.

Eldar turn 1:

The Dark Reapers jumped out of the Wave Serpent and placed themselves on the middle objective, along with a Warlock and the Farseer. Everything else pretty much stayed where it was.

With massive Psychic buffs, the Dark Reaper's opened fire on the Stalker, taking it down to four wounds. Their 3 damage meant Quantum Shielding didn't stop much.

But that was nóthing compared to what the Fire Prisms did. With a strategem that gave them reroll to hit AND to wound, they left the DDA at a measly 2 wounds. Again, the high quantity D3 damage shots really countered the Quantum Shielding.

After dumping it's cargo, the Wave Serpent thought it was a good idea to fly towards my Immortals and decides to tie them into combat. Yeey.

With no characters in sight, the Rangers fired on a Warrior squad, killing 8. Luckily I passed morale on them.

Necrons turn 2:

A glorious Reanimation roll brought back ALL 8 WARRIORS! HUZZAH!
With important tactical objectives drawn for the middle objective marker, all the Warriors, the Immortals and the C'tan marched towards it. The Scarabs stayed behind to control objectives and as anti-deepstrike.
I decided I had to go full on the offense if I wanted to score out a win, so I Veiled the Lychguard as close to the middle objective as possible.

Szeras upgraded another Warrior squad to BS 2+ (needed a CP-reroll again though). Combined for killed a Dire Avenger squad and a couple more rangers. Most impressive was the C'tan's Gaze of Death. With a 6 on the shots roll, he killed 4! Dark Reapers. That should compensate for failing his Anti-Matter meteor.

The Immortals were unfortunately locked in combat with the Wave Serpent. Since falling them back meant they would just get shot up and then locked in combat again, I decided to keep them locked to the Wave Serpent.

And then came the most important charge phase. For the Lychguard, I rolled a.... ONE AND TWO! FFFUUUUUU.....

Eldar, turn 2:

As expected, the Lychguard were now officially boned. The Wraithguard deep-struck close to them, got Quickened to get in flamer-range etc. However, it took my opponent áll his firepower to kill the Lychguard and the Overlord there.

Necrons turn 3:

A last desperate push towards was made towards the middle objective.
With not many targets left in range, one warrior squad advanced and another one moved up to try and charge the middle objective.
Immortals were still locked in combat with the bloody Wave Serpent.
Luckily, my opponent underestimated Living Metal, which meant my DDA and Stalker were a little better at shooting again. They still completely failed to do any damage though.

The C'tan tried his luck on the Wraithguard this time. He ágain failed his Meteor and did killed only one Wraithguard with his Gaze.

More sporadic fire killed some Dire avengers and rangers, nothing special.

And with double failed charge of both the Warriors to get on the objective and the C'tan into the Wraithguard, I shook my opponents hand. Major defeat for the Necrons...


Post match analysis:
+
Szeras + the warriors were the star of the show for me. Even with one Warrior squad not having any targets at turn 3, they still did a lot of work, even against -2 to hit rangers. Granted, the 8 Warriors returning in one Reanimation roll might make me a bit biased here.
Though I feel like 15 Warriors might be worth trying again. It has enough firepower to be relevant, yet won't be seen as threatening as 20 Warriors might.

Speaking of Szeras, I think he may be the best buffer to go with a lot of Warriors. While he doesn't have the 5++ aura, Warriors won't often get targeted by high AP weapons. On top of his upgrades, his hand-held Brightlance can provide some much-needed anti-tank.

Scarabs might be worth another go too. Their low cost makes them great for anti-deepstrike and as objective-holders.

-
I was quite dissapointed by the Stalker. Not because he got shot to bits in one turn, but simple because I couldn't get him to work. His anti-tank is too short to handle enemy armour and his re-roll 1's to hit forced him to shoot at a sub-optimal target.

Not too sure what to think of the C'tan shard of the Nightbringer. While he had a REAL potential to do damage, the large amount of enemy snipers forced him to be very careful. Not to mention him failing his Meteor, twice. Maybe if there was more LoS blocking terrain could he have been more effective.

I definitely need a better method of getting the Lychguard in close combat. Even with MWBD and a command re-roll at hand, it is too big of a roll to fail.

Thanks for the writeup.

I guess that sums up the missery that Necrons are in at the moment. We rely heavily on an few key features to go off (LG charge, getting Nightbringer into play, DDA killing things), if they don't it'll be an all uphill struggle, at best

I was thinking of trying this list. Using the Veil of Shadows, Zhandrekh/Oberyn and a C'tan Shard of the Deceiver it should be possible to place the entire army close to the enemy.

It does rely quite heavily on you getting first turn though....

Battalion detachment, 1800 points:

PLEASE PUT ARMY LISTS UNDER SPOILERS.

They take up half the page and are usually irrelevant to the discussion.

(and yes, I'm aware this thread is on its last legs and we'll be able to start a new one once the codex is out (hopefully soon), but I mean, come on! There's a completely separate section of the forum for them already, they shouldn't constantly be getting posted in the tactics thread. Last thing we need once the new thread is up and people are trying to figure out how to play new Necrons is for them to have to scroll through page after page of random lists being posted trying to look for the bits of real tactics discussion scattered and hidden in between)

 skoffs wrote:
PLEASE PUT ARMY LISTS UNDER SPOILERS.

They take up half the page and are usually irrelevant to the discussion.

(and yes, I'm aware this thread is on its last legs and we'll be able to start a new one once the codex is out (hopefully soon), but I mean, come on! There's a completely separate section of the forum for them already, they shouldn't constantly be getting posted in the tactics thread. Last thing we need once the new thread is up and people are trying to figure out how to play new Necrons is for them to have to scroll through page after page of random lists being posted trying to look for the bits of real tactics discussion scattered and hidden in between)

I’ve been an offender of this. I agree, skoffs. Sorry guys!

I tested Wraiths in a game this weekend using the new RP stratagem. Super resilient!

sieGermans wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
PLEASE PUT ARMY LISTS UNDER SPOILERS.

They take up half the page and are usually irrelevant to the discussion.

(and yes, I'm aware this thread is on its last legs and we'll be able to start a new one once the codex is out (hopefully soon), but I mean, come on! There's a completely separate section of the forum for them already, they shouldn't constantly be getting posted in the tactics thread. Last thing we need once the new thread is up and people are trying to figure out how to play new Necrons is for them to have to scroll through page after page of random lists being posted trying to look for the bits of real tactics discussion scattered and hidden in between)

I’ve been an offender of this. I agree, skoffs. Sorry guys!

I tested Wraiths in a game this weekend using the new RP stratagem. Super resilient!

Mathematically its quite.....bad. If you spent 2CP to give RP for the whole game, yep good, but most of the time you are getting 1 wraith back...

I understand this doesn't sound as impressive, but when you figure into how stupidly resiliant wraiths are, and the potential to get 2-3 back is huge. And the best thing to spend CP on atm. But thats not saying much.

But i dont think 1 wraith is worth 2CP, which is the most likely outcome

 Klowny wrote:
i dont think 1 wraith is worth 2CP, which is the most likely outcome

I'm assuming it will be too late to let them know for the codex (that it needs to be changed to be properly useful), too.

Looking at the currently released codexes, how many more strategems should we be expecting once ours arrives?
Because if the ones in C.A are anything to go by, looks like I'll be sticking to the generic reroll and morale auto-pass ones...

 skoffs wrote:

 Klowny wrote:
i dont think 1 wraith is worth 2CP, which is the most likely outcome

I think it is.

Remember this is a game winning wraith, its not the 38pt wraith in the army in your deployment zone. Its the wraith that locks down Mortarion for one more turn, or the wraith that makes the unit survive to charge the AM back line, or its the wraith that lets the unit daisy chane to the objective to score that VP that wins you the game. Definitely worth 2CP.

2CP to make a blob of warriors pass moral in second turn, 5" from your deployment zone, is likely not game winning.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skoffs wrote:

 Klowny wrote:
i dont think 1 wraith is worth 2CP, which is the most likely outcome

I'm assuming it will be too late to let them know for the codex (that it needs to be changed to be properly useful), too.

Looking at the currently released codexes, how many more strategems should we be expecting once ours arrives?
Because if the ones in C.A are anything to go by, looks like I'll be sticking to the generic reroll and morale auto-pass ones...

By the look of ADmech for example, I'm hoping for lots! They had what? 3-4 themed factions with apropriately flavored stratagems?

If we get 3 dynasties with strong flavored stratagems, Im likely going to be happy. And lowered point costs of course.

Tyranids got I believe 6 Hive Fleets. Hopefully we'll get just as many Dynasties to choose from each with their own stratagems.

Trying to think of fluff-related themes to base dynasties on so far I have:

* Shooting
* Fighting
* Teleporptation
* Flayer virus / insanity?
* Canpoteks
* Praetorians
* Anti psyker? Bring back pariahs? (unlikely)
* Slow and extra sturdy (5+ FnP?, cheap extra RP? )
* Speedcrons? (always advance 6"?, charge after advance?)
* Vehicle oriented (LM gives D3 HP intsead of 1 perhaps?, 5++/6++ on vehicles?)

I think with a few edits on some of our datasheets we could actually be an effective army in both resilience and offense.

While we can't deny or produce Pysker powers what about a buff that let us deny powers based on our number of units. E.G. Magus from GSC has an aura that let's him and any friendly unit within 6" to deny one pysker test per unit per phase. Something like that on a Cryptek buffing 2 Warriors/Immortals units and Overlord is 4 DTW rolls which is a lot more then what we can currently have.

Also, if they let the DDA damage rolls of 1 or 2 automatically become 3 then that would make the DDA about 40% more effective if all it's damage is always between 3-6 wounds. I probably get over the D3 shots if that was done.

Might read this as a "wish list" but I do think that if certain paragraphs were re-worded or if we could "adopt" other armies rulls into our own version then we would be a better well rounded army.

We chatted about it before, but it's fun to think about. So far the "main" dynasties are Sautekh (main one), Nihilakh (Trazyn's dynasty), and Mephrit (Shield of Baal dynasty). Maynarkh are the FW dynasty, so won't get rules in the Codex, much like Raptors, Charcharodons, and Minotaurs don't get Chapter Tactics. There are a couple others that have minor fluff and confirmed color schemes, like Thokt, Novokh, Charnovokh, and Nekthyst. Of those, Novokh and Charnovokh are called out by name in the new Rulebook.

So likely we'll see Sautekh, Nihilakh, Mephrit, Novokh, and Charnovokh, maybe 1 other but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just those 5.

Sautekh - largest dynasty, will likely get some generalist ability or one that encourages high numbers of Troops.

Mephrit - "Star-killers", known for really powerful C'tan and having powerful energy weapons. Likely good shooting ability, some Strat that encourages a C'tan. Last edition they had a Relic that made one C'tan +1 Toughness and Strength, so will likely get that again.

Nihilakh - Trazyn is rich and has lots of treasures. Maybe something like Salamanders, where you get rerolls for having better gear than other people.

Novokh - Known for being really violent and bloody, so probably an Assault buff. Maybe something special for Flayed Ones.

Carnovokh - Described as "clinging defiantly to the edges of the Eastern Fringe" and that their worlds are small and scattered, so this one will likely get a Morale buff like Iyanden (who can only lose at most one model from Morale).

Thokt has a named Geosculptor character, so if they get Dynasty abilities maybe some special Relic or Stratagem for Crypteks.

Do you think with the recent strategem hints that they'll alter spyders to perhaps serve as a canoptek units version of a Cryptek?

v *Weird Tangent on the topic* v


On a similar topic. Anyone else kind of Hoping for an Alpha Wraith or a Queen spyder type Character for those models? Or heck, maybe a stationary AI building?

-------

Yeah considering that as non pyschers without a bonus to the DTW check I'd be more down for taking gloom prisms if it maybe had a secondary effect.
ex: Fail to deny an offensive power but also in range of that power? The GP model becomes a magnet for it and suffers the negative effect (maybe at an enhanced effect).
Succed at denying a defensive power? Redirect that power to a necron unit if applicable (opponent can attempt to DTW against himself as the original caster?) target.
Or maybe have the GP's gain charges or something as they leech energy off of warp powers, less for failures and more for successful denials and those charges can be spent to do things.
1 charge = 1 reroll for a unit in X inches.
1 charge = A temporary buff in a phase/turn for a unit.
1 charge = +1 to DTW checks per charge spent up to the cap. However if you spend charges to deny then you get no charges if you fail and only 1 back if you succede instead of the normal value.

I think the necrons would be a fantastic opportunity to shake up the alpha strike meta. Make them an army that can soak that first turn or two of damage, then grind the opponent down. That, or bring back the feel of the 5th edition book of raiders and incomprehensible technology.

...and I want my old warscythes back. They used to be the most feared melee weapon in the game.

Careful on the wishlisting, guys.
Maybe okay to stick to things we know every book with internal factions has had so far (eg. the speed faction, the melee faction, etc.) and extrapolate from there what we should realistically be able to expect, though. Would not be an unreasonable thing to plan for/build ideas around.

Talking about new hopeful units would be pretty much pointless at the moment without anything to back it up with (ie. credible rumor).

Anyone know what the substantiated-rumor-to-actual-leaks time window has been for the most recent books? (so we know abouts when to expect ours to start rolling in)

They've been pretty inconsistent with rumor to release windows. BA was like, what, 2 weeks before? Meanwhile the Nid/Eldar books were announced a month or more before the actual release. They'll announce whenever they think is the right time to hype - I wouldn't expect any news until around Christmas/New Years as kind of a "here's what to look forward to in 2018" type of thing.

Requizen wrote:
We chatted about it before, but it's fun to think about. So far the "main" dynasties are Sautekh (main one), Nihilakh (Trazyn's dynasty), and Mephrit (Shield of Baal dynasty). Maynarkh are the FW dynasty, so won't get rules in the Codex, much like Raptors, Charcharodons, and Minotaurs don't get Chapter Tactics. There are a couple others that have minor fluff and confirmed color schemes, like Thokt, Novokh, Charnovokh, and Nekthyst. Of those, Novokh and Charnovokh are called out by name in the new Rulebook.

So likely we'll see Sautekh, Nihilakh, Mephrit, Novokh, and Charnovokh, maybe 1 other but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just those 5.

Sautekh - largest dynasty, will likely get some generalist ability or one that encourages high numbers of Troops.

Mephrit - "Star-killers", known for really powerful C'tan and having powerful energy weapons. Likely good shooting ability, some Strat that encourages a C'tan. Last edition they had a Relic that made one C'tan +1 Toughness and Strength, so will likely get that again.

Nihilakh - Trazyn is rich and has lots of treasures. Maybe something like Salamanders, where you get rerolls for having better gear than other people.

Novokh - Known for being really violent and bloody, so probably an Assault buff. Maybe something special for Flayed Ones.

Carnovokh - Described as "clinging defiantly to the edges of the Eastern Fringe" and that their worlds are small and scattered, so this one will likely get a Morale buff like Iyanden (who can only lose at most one model from Morale).

Thokt has a named Geosculptor character, so if they get Dynasty abilities maybe some special Relic or Stratagem for Crypteks.

Great! I thought about the C'Tans but completely forgot about the God Shackle and the Mephrit dynasty, its a great piece of fluffy wargear, game mechanicly its not too different from Celestine (a group of models with special roles centered around a special character). +1 S/T shouldn't be too strong of a trait either. One could always hope.

Hmm,
If the God Shackle returns but is limited to generic Shards, would it improve them enough to consider them as viable?
(they really need to fix those ones. Give them the Slide back, inflicting mortal wounds on anything they slide into if they don't want to mess with the whole "draw a line through units" mechanic again).

torblind wrote:
Trying to think of fluff-related themes to base dynasties on so far I have:

* Shooting
* Fighting
* Teleporptation
* Flayer virus / insanity?
* Canpoteks
* Praetorians
* Anti psyker? Bring back pariahs? (unlikely)
* Slow and extra sturdy (5+ FnP?, cheap extra RP? )
* Speedcrons? (always advance 6"?, charge after advance?)
* Vehicle oriented (LM gives D3 HP intsead of 1 perhaps?, 5++/6++ on vehicles?)

Mo often than not, the extra abilities the "subfaction" get are recycled; so don't get your hopes on too many new ones. Maybe one or two.
I hope Maynarkh gets Canoptek-based abilities, as my army mostly has Canopteks or Destroyers. (the only non-Canopteks I have are HQ, Stalker, TA and 60 Warriors, so yeah)
We might get an infiltrate option that actually works (like AdMech Stygies, where you redeploy prior game, so you get guaranteed charge if you go first, but are vulnerable for shooting if second)
Hope for something that gives -1 to hit at 12" + range maybe? That'd help Destoyers :p
Advance + Charge for flayers maybe?

Who knows, just hope we get SOMETHIN'




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Odrankt wrote:
I think with a few edits on some of our datasheets we could actually be an effective army in both resilience and offense.

While we can't deny or produce Pysker powers what about a buff that let us deny powers based on our number of units. E.G. Magus from GSC has an aura that let's him and any friendly unit within 6" to deny one pysker test per unit per phase. Something like that on a Cryptek buffing 2 Warriors/Immortals units and Overlord is 4 DTW rolls which is a lot more then what we can currently have.

Also, if they let the DDA damage rolls of 1 or 2 automatically become 3 then that would make the DDA about 40% more effective if all it's damage is always between 3-6 wounds. I probably get over the D3 shots if that was done.

Might read this as a "wish list" but I do think that if certain paragraphs were re-worded or if we could "adopt" other armies rulls into our own version then we would be a better well rounded army.

Like with AdMech Neutron lasers

The necrons do need more special guns. For the most advanced race in the galaxy, their armory always felt a little bland. Where are the flamethrowers, the grenades, the missiles?

Of course, by those I don't mean literal flamethrowers, grenades and missiles, but weapons that fulfill those roles.
Like a weapon that sends out a cloud of flesh eating nanites (flamethrower), a single use weapon that makes a black hole (grenade) or a homing, solid projectile that's sheathed in anti-matter or something (missile)

Remember disruption fields from 3rd ed and entropic weapons from 5th ed? Those were cool concepts. The entropic weapons were a little overboard, but a few tweaks might bring it in line.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
I think the necrons would be a fantastic opportunity to shake up the alpha strike meta. Make them an army that can soak that first turn or two of damage, then grind the opponent down. That, or bring back the feel of the 5th edition book of raiders and incomprehensible technology.

...and I want my old warscythes back. They used to be the most feared melee weapon in the game.

This, because alpha strikes in general are a problem for this game's balance (especially armies that seem to have been given the opportunity to abuse this, looking at your Death Company)

Maelstrom808 wrote:I think the necrons would be a fantastic opportunity to shake up the alpha strike meta. Make them an army that can soak that first turn or two of damage, then grind the opponent down. That, or bring back the feel of the 5th edition book of raiders and incomprehensible technology.

...and I want my old warscythes back. They used to be the most feared melee weapon in the game.

There are already armies that can stop Alpha Strikes. It's mass blob things like Orks (which are actually really good if you're ok pushing around 120 models per turn) or Death Guard with their Strats and lots of Zombies (or whatever they're called now).

If you want to play 7th style Necrons but better, play Death Guard. They basically stole our shtick back in 7th when they got their own rules, and now even moreso.

skoffs wrote:Hmm,
If the God Shackle returns but is limited to generic Shards, would it improve them enough to consider them as viable?
(they really need to fix those ones. Give them the Slide back, inflicting mortal wounds on anything they slide into if they don't want to mess with the whole "draw a line through units" mechanic again).

Mmmaybe. T8 would put them at 6+ wounding for small arms, and also affects things like Autocannons and Missiles. S8 makes the Deceiver wound on 2+ against most Infantry, also nice. Depends on what the average melee profile is, how many Power Weapons and the like you're going against.

So I'm currently listening to Frontline gamings podcast Chapter tactics. They have a faction statistics breakdown using data from all the ITC tournaments and the Best Coast Pairings app...
... Necrons are the worst faction currently. (Although Deathwatch are worse, but with a low sample size.)

So I guess it can only get better when the codex comes out.

 skoffs wrote:
Hmm,
If the God Shackle returns but is limited to generic Shards, would it improve them enough to consider them as viable?
(they really need to fix those ones. Give them the Slide back, inflicting mortal wounds on anything they slide into if they don't want to mess with the whole "draw a line through units" mechanic again).

Mortarian has that exact ability.

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
So I'm currently listening to Frontline gamings podcast Chapter tactics. They have a faction statistics breakdown using data from all the ITC tournaments and the Best Coast Pairings app...
... Necrons are the worst faction currently. (Although Deathwatch are worse, but with a low sample size.)

So I guess it can only get better when the codex comes out.

I hope so but its not gurunteed. Reece has previously said hes suprised at necrons tournament showing but thinks them fine for the normal meta. Also if codex is indeed just around the corner those results almost certainly wont be factored in to any changes.

zacharia wrote:

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
So I'm currently listening to Frontline gamings podcast Chapter tactics. They have a faction statistics breakdown using data from all the ITC tournaments and the Best Coast Pairings app...
... Necrons are the worst faction currently. (Although Deathwatch are worse, but with a low sample size.)

So I guess it can only get better when the codex comes out.

I hope so but its not gurunteed. Reece has previously said hes suprised at necrons tournament showing but thinks them fine for the normal meta. Also if codex is indeed just around the corner those results almost certainly wont be factored in to any changes.

The FLG guys are cool and I love their whole organization, but they clearly don't play with/against competitive "filth" all that often. Their lists on stream are often well designed and interesting, but wouldn't hold up to a seriously cutting edge tourney winning list.

When playing against a normal army, something like Space Marines with a well distributed amount of units, some transports, etc, Necrons can perform pretty well. When against Guilliman Gunline with Imperial Soup, not so much. Against regular CSM, competes ok, against cutthroat Chaos Soup with mixed cherrypicking, Magnus, and Stratagem shenanigans, it's not even a game.

The top armies can have "normal" builds and "power" builds. Our power builds are on par with most normal builds, and that's the main problem. So yeah, if you roll into your local GW for a game you won't have an issue but Heaven help you if you go to Adepticon.

Requizen wrote:

zacharia wrote:

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
So I'm currently listening to Frontline gamings podcast Chapter tactics. They have a faction statistics breakdown using data from all the ITC tournaments and the Best Coast Pairings app...
... Necrons are the worst faction currently. (Although Deathwatch are worse, but with a low sample size.)

So I guess it can only get better when the codex comes out.

I hope so but its not gurunteed. Reece has previously said hes suprised at necrons tournament showing but thinks them fine for the normal meta. Also if codex is indeed just around the corner those results almost certainly wont be factored in to any changes.

The FLG guys are cool and I love their whole organization, but they clearly don't play with/against competitive "filth" all that often. Their lists on stream are often well designed and interesting, but wouldn't hold up to a seriously cutting edge tourney winning list.

When playing against a normal army, something like Space Marines with a well distributed amount of units, some transports, etc, Necrons can perform pretty well. When against Guilliman Gunline with Imperial Soup, not so much. Against regular CSM, competes ok, against cutthroat Chaos Soup with mixed cherrypicking, Magnus, and Stratagem shenanigans, it's not even a game.

The top armies can have "normal" builds and "power" builds. Our power builds are on par with most normal builds, and that's the main problem. So yeah, if you roll into your local GW for a game you won't have an issue but Heaven help you if you go to Adepticon.

Yea, it’s a bit related to the question we were discussing a few pages back:

For each of the current Competitive Meta Lists; What is our optimal tailored list and relevant general Strategy (or specific tactics if distinct)?

For some of them, we have decent, albeit inflexible options: MWBD-Tesla Immortals are great dakka versus swarm builds, but impotent against the Competitive Guilliman lists. Etc.

Requizen wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:I think the necrons would be a fantastic opportunity to shake up the alpha strike meta. Make them an army that can soak that first turn or two of damage, then grind the opponent down. That, or bring back the feel of the 5th edition book of raiders and incomprehensible technology.

...and I want my old warscythes back. They used to be the most feared melee weapon in the game.

There are already armies that can stop Alpha Strikes. It's mass blob things like Orks (which are actually really good if you're ok pushing around 120 models per turn) or Death Guard with their Strats and lots of Zombies (or whatever they're called now).

If you want to play 7th style Necrons but better, play Death Guard. They basically stole our shtick back in 7th when they got their own rules, and now even moreso.

skoffs wrote:Hmm,
If the God Shackle returns but is limited to generic Shards, would it improve them enough to consider them as viable?
(they really need to fix those ones. Give them the Slide back, inflicting mortal wounds on anything they slide into if they don't want to mess with the whole "draw a line through units" mechanic again).

Mmmaybe. T8 would put them at 6+ wounding for small arms, and also affects things like Autocannons and Missiles. S8 makes the Deceiver wound on 2+ against most Infantry, also nice. Depends on what the average melee profile is, how many Power Weapons and the like you're going against.

The shackle also gave the shard 5+ FNP, that would definitely be welcome

FLG has said that they run soft lists when making battlereports so that the games get more interesting. They are tournament guys and are very good at the game.

I think it's they way Reece is that makes it sound that everything is good. Just listen to one of their codex reviews on Signals on the frontline.

Luckily other groups has said that Necrons are in a bad position and I believe some of them have also been involved in playtesting.

I forget, do biker models have any special rules on where they can sit?

Didn't know if our tomb blades which are both flying and bikers can effectively jet out of a melee and up to a high level of a building nearby.

Lothmar wrote:
I forget, do biker models have any special rules on where they can sit?

Didn't know if our tomb blades which are both flying and bikers can effectively jet out of a melee and up to a high level of a building nearby.

They have fly, so no problem

I'm thinking of trying Deathmarks. I've been having a lot of problems with deep-striking enemies who are then buffed with a movement ability (Veil of Time, Warptime etc) to get an easy charge off.

The Deathmarks could snipe the psyker before he can buff the deepstruck unit (since the sniper joins them in their deepstrike).

The problem is ofc if 10 Deathmarks can pull it off. Especially on stuff like a Librarian/Exalted Sorceror who have 4W and a 3+ save...

Doctoralex wrote:
I'm thinking of trying Deathmarks. I've been having a lot of problems with deep-striking enemies who are then buffed with a movement ability (Veil of Time, Warptime etc) to get an easy charge off.

The Deathmarks could snipe the psyker before he can buff the deepstruck unit (since the sniper joins them in their deepstrike).

The problem is ofc if 10 Deathmarks can pull it off. Especially on stuff like a Librarian/Exalted Sorceror who have 4W and a 3+ save...

20 shots (assuming Rapid Fire) is 40/3 hits. That's 20/9 mortal wounds and 10/3 wounds, for about 3 wounds total, assuming no hit penalties or FNP or cover or anything.

In other words... No.

20 shots (assuming Rapid Fire) is 40/3 hits. That's 20/9 mortal wounds and 10/3 wounds, for about 3 wounds total, assuming no hit penalties or FNP or cover or anything.

In other words... No.

Deathmarks are rapid fire 1 so they get 1 shoot per mode or 2 if in rapid fire range. So, a unit of 10 can produce 20 shots maximum.

 Odrankt wrote:

20 shots (assuming Rapid Fire) is 40/3 hits. That's 20/9 mortal wounds and 10/3 wounds, for about 3 wounds total, assuming no hit penalties or FNP or cover or anything.

In other words... No.

Deathmarks are rapid fire 1 so they get 1 shoot per mode or 2 if in rapid fire range. So, a unit of 10 can produce 20 shots maximum.

Yeah. I know. I started that with 20 shots.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Odrankt wrote:

20 shots (assuming Rapid Fire) is 40/3 hits. That's 20/9 mortal wounds and 10/3 wounds, for about 3 wounds total, assuming no hit penalties or FNP or cover or anything.

In other words... No.

Deathmarks are rapid fire 1 so they get 1 shoot per mode or 2 if in rapid fire range. So, a unit of 10 can produce 20 shots maximum.

Yeah. I know. I started that with 20 shots.

Okay, so what do you mean by "20 shots (assuming Rapid Fire) is 40/3 hits."? Either the maths don't add up or I am not understanding what your example means? E.g. how does 20 become 40.

(2/3)*20=40/3

That's hit chance time number of shots.

Just bring three units of 10 Deathmarks.
Problem solved!
(no, not really)

I mean alternatively even if you fail you can make a fence out of your deathmarks. xD

www.dice-hammer.com shows you the damage output from deathmarks easily against various Toughness/Save combinations.

Just expand the little arrow on the weapon tab, and check "Sniper", and the damage output now includes MW on 6+ to wound in addition.

Am I wrong for thinking that if your warriors don’t need the repair function of the ghost ark you should try to station it at a 7 inch orbit?

I say 7 because at lowest tier you've got 4 inche move and you need to be within 3 inches at the end of a move phase so that you can provide a secondary RP and staying more then 6 away basically means you wont be hurting your guys if you do get unlucky and they take out your pitt crew.

Then again if you're that low on health you should probably be hovering your GA out to pasture so that it can at least try to kamikaze some enemies on a lucky roll.
Thoughts?

Also I like Tomb blades but my mind has trouble figuring out how to best get them proper Cryptek support so that I have the best chance of getting these expensive models back into the field as it were. Is it better to run the armor boost over the invul, or vice versa, or should I suck it up and pay for both just in case?

Anyone got any good tips? Im guessing Veil would help but that's only usable once and at the end of a move so you really have to know you're gonna be relatively locked into a specific region for this.
Thoughts?

If the Ghost Ark repair aura was not restricted to Warriors alone, it’d be more useful. Given the niche role it occupies, your idea appears sound.

For Tomb Blades, you should run a mix of some with Invuln only and others with Armor only; and tank wounds as appropriate based on incoming firepower. For a 9-man squad, I also run 3 without any gear at all, because I love crunchy optimization.

SG - How does that work in game if they're all a single unit (or were you referencing multiple squads with different loadouts)?

Do you always just assume the average across the unit?

ex: AP 2 weapon hits X times, I make saves on a 6 initially. That attack run wipes out models so I remove the ones without any gear.

Or can I effectively roll saves 1 at a time and say im making the saves on a particular model group first?
ex: AP 4+ weapon with X wounds, so I make them one at a time with my invul units and if I prematurely lose all my invul units then the remaining wounds just go straight through to other models, at which point i'd take away the lesser non armored models etc.

No, you declare which model is taking the save.

Since they have more than one wound, once one has been allocated, however, future wounds/saves must be allocated to that model until it dies.

As long as no models have any wounds missing, you can keep switching around as needed until one does.

A canny opponent will wait until you have a wound on a model and switch shooting order around, though, so you need to be careful.

Lothmar wrote:
SG - How does that work in game if they're all a single unit (or were you referencing multiple squads with different loadouts)?

Do you always just assume the average across the unit?

ex: AP 2 weapon hits X times, I make saves on a 6 initially. That attack run wipes out models so I remove the ones without any gear.

Or can I effectively roll saves 1 at a time and say im making the saves on a particular model group first?
ex: AP 4+ weapon with X wounds, so I make them one at a time with my invul units and if I prematurely lose all my invul units then the remaining wounds just go straight through to other models, at which point i'd take away the lesser non armored models etc.

1 at a time etc.

I'll admit I had a little laugh imagining Trazyn taking over the pilot seat on a CCB (since it's an overlord on it) until I read his Infinite hosts ability again. *chuckle*

Anyone ever try a (Trazyn x Anrakyr) + royal court (lords & crypteks so you're not losing out on too many wounds and are giving them better stats while taking advantage of their buffs and keeping somewhat spaced back for shooty staff support) + Units melee list?

To me it feels like that staff of Traz's could put in work in the right situation…

Does the 6" burst of mortal wounds count as being killed by the staff if there's a few characters in a general area?

Mainly curious since if you start taking out a weak one that was on the edge of death when that pops via the pop, does a new link to the chain which might pop another and so on?
Until all characters in the 6" range are dead and all units of that faction ended up taking 3+ d3 in mortal wounds as well?

Lothmar wrote:
I'll admit I had a little laugh imagining Trazyn taking over the pilot seat on a CCB (since it's an overlord on it) until I read his Infinite hosts ability again. *chuckle*

Anyone ever try a (Trazyn x Anrakyr) + royal court (lords & crypteks so you're not losing out on too many wounds and are giving them better stats while taking advantage of their buffs and keeping somewhat spaced back for shooty staff support) + Units melee list?

To me it feels like that staff of Traz's could put in work in the right situation…

Does the 6" burst of mortal wounds count as being killed by the staff if there's a few characters in a general area?

Mainly curious since if you start taking out a weak one that was on the edge of death when that pops via the pop, does a new link to the chain which might pop another and so on?
Until all characters in the 6" range are dead and all units of that faction ended up taking 3+ d3 in mortal wounds as well?

My guess would be No since it says "attack from this weapon"

well..

I'm kinda sad with the Tomb Spider (PL4, 76pts without repair or weapons or psychic defence) and its Scarab fabrication ability.
I mean, roll a dice to get ONE single base (per unit ofcourse) back risking (multiple if more units) D3 of your 4 wounds if it fails...

Then I read up on Belloflostsouls, where they talked about the Tyranid Tervigon (PL13 or 225pts, which in necron's points price range should already at least be 260pts)...
He just flat out MAKES 10 termagants... FOR FREE, without any risk AT ALL?

Might as well ditch the scarab manifactoring altogether and reduce the spider in points to use it as a techpriest for repairs...

Better get that codex soon (if it changes things for the better, if not I won't even bother).

Tyraind Codex was a big boost, it shifted from an army basically reliant on twin linked devouring wielding flying hive tyrants; to one were there's multiple viable options. Heck the malantrope was becoming a must have and got modified to be weaker so that its viable instead of must have. If GW is using the same attitude then Necrons should gain a lot of viable options.

The Tyranid codex was a major game changer for that army. Hopefully the Necron codex will do the same for us.

Honestly its in GW's interest to make most models in each army at least viable choices. Sure meta balancing will mean that only a smaller number become competitive viable at the top end; but if the majority are useable and viable choices than its good for GW as it means more purchases per army; and its better for gamers as it means more variety when playing.

I have zero confidence that they will make the Monolith any kind of "good" once the codex hits. It's been 4 generations of meh in a row, now. I guess they just don't want to sell those models anymore.

 skoffs wrote:
I have zero confidence that they will make the Monolith any kind of "good" once the codex hits. It's been 4 generations of meh in a row, now. I guess they just don't want to sell those models anymore.

Which is a shame because it is such an iconic unit for the 'Crons. It's basically their Landraider.

The guns are threatening enough, it's just that the whole Eternity Gate/Invasion Beam thing needs to be a one unit + one character. That way you can get a combo like Immortals + Overlord or 20 Warriors + Cryptek to go along with it.

Aaand it could definitely use a point cost drop, like pretty much anything for the Necrons right now.

 Overread wrote:
Tyraind Codex was a big boost, it shifted from an army basically reliant on twin linked devouring wielding flying hive tyrants; to one were there's multiple viable options. Heck the malantrope was becoming a must have and got modified to be weaker so that its viable instead of must have. If GW is using the same attitude then Necrons should gain a lot of viable options.

Most importantly, Shadow in the Warp, Synapse, and Instinctive Behavior changed from their index versions to their codex versions. RP is a big let down for Necrons. If they rework it going into the codex it could fix a LOT of things. On the down side, the TCyte didn't change it's transport rules to allow multiple units inside it so it's unlikely your transports will be able o deploy multiple units at once.

An interesting talk with my group, what if Necrons could have anti-stratagem capability like that assassin? Most codex armies now lean very heavily on Stratagems and it might be nice to have a counter weight army like nid can be against psyic armies.

Necrons have a 'seen it all done that' so like 'shadows of the warp' stratagems within x costs 1 more CP to pull off.

I like it. Would give some real unique flavor to them (being a durable army is not unique) and would really throw a wrench into the meta.

Necrons being the durable army would work if we were. There are units and characters far more durable than anything we have.

Hah. I remember when a few people overreacted to the new RP saying it was broken. Like, it wasn't even close.

I've been running Time's Arrow on my C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer a couple of times and so far I kind of prefer it over Anti-Matter Meteor.

Simply due to the fact that you can control where you want it. My Anti-Matter meteors more often than not hit enemy chaff units or enemy vehicles (empty transports or walkers). Why do D3 mortal wounds to that when you can quite reliable snipe a Hellblaster, a Dark Reaper, Marker Drone etc.

On top of that, the enemy won't get a FnP save for it.

And lastly the enemy seems to be quite spooked about it. My enemy was boasting that his melee-focused Primaris Captain could take my C'tan in melee, but seemed to keep him behind his men when I told him what this power did

Welp x-mas is over and still no codex news. Back into the infinite loop of hoping our codex is coming out soon only to update that soon with the next various chronological marker after every other marker is reached.

Looking forward to New Years drop. *crosses fingers* Let it be a new year for the Cron.

I would expect the next batch of codexes to be revealed on Open Day on January 6th. It's Nurgle week right now so don't hold out hope for any Necron news before then.

Chaos Daemons isn't even out yet, so I wouldn't expect any news until they at least put out what they've announced. So probably the Codex (and AoS Battletome), maybe an extra week or two of Nurgle releases, and then Tau/Necrons. Patience.

*sees various replies*

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
*Sarcasm end*

So I wanted to address the Immortal vs Warrior debate:

You can get 10 Immortals for 14 Warriors and I'm curious why Immortals aren't the superior choice:

-Immortals being limited to 10 man squads means they can get fit into cover more easily, granting them a wooping 2+ save.
-AP -2 feels like a sweet-spot for to me. Common saves for elite units are 2+/4++ or 3+/5++, which means no AP is wasted for the Immortal's Gauss Blasters.
-Flexibility with Gauss Blasters for anti-MEQ and Tesla for anti-blob.
-A big blob of Warriors is easily tied down by an enemy transport or deep-struck unit. Multiple units of Immortals allows for more flexibility in that regard.

In terms of survivability, it is difficult to say. While Warriors have a lower save and are harder to place in cover, more dead models equals a more effective reanimation protocol. However, a 3+ armour save and cover does not require any support. Reanimation Protocols pretty much requires a Cryptek and/or Ghost Ark to be effective.

Doctoralex wrote:
So I wanted to address the Immortal vs Warrior debate:

You can get 10 Immortals for 14 Warriors and I'm curious why Immortals aren't the superior choice:

-Immortals being limited to 10 man squads means they can get fit into cover more easily, granting them a wooping 2+ save.
-AP -2 feels like a sweet-spot for to me. Common saves for elite units are 2+/4++ or 3+/5++, which means no AP is wasted for the Immortal's Gauss Blasters.
-Flexibility with Gauss Blasters for anti-MEQ and Tesla for anti-blob.
-A big blob of Warriors is easily tied down by an enemy transport or deep-struck unit. Multiple units of Immortals allows for more flexibility in that regard.

In terms of survivability, it is difficult to say. While Warriors have a lower save and are harder to place in cover, more dead models equals a more effective reanimation protocol. However, a 3+ armour save and cover does not require any support. Reanimation Protocols pretty much requires a Cryptek and/or Ghost Ark to be effective.

If you could run Immortals in squads of 20, would you?

Have you considered running warriors in units of 10?

Doctoralex wrote:
I'm curious why Immortals aren't the superior choice

I'm pretty sure the consensus has been Immortals are the better choice for a while now, especially considering their Tesla interaction with MWBD.
It's usually new players who advocate for Warriors.

yeeeeee, currently warriors aren't great. They are durable-ish in large numbers but remember they dont get to RP from battleshock, so you need lords and +1 ld warlord trait and lots of support to make them stick around.

In short, too much investment to make warriors work.

Immortals are way more flexible, have better statlines, are cheaper (10 immortals vs 20 warriors) tougher, shoot better and have different weapon options, which synergise really well with MWBD.

Strength 5 shooting is so worth it. Immortals are a far more relevant shooting unit, and their 3+ (Becoming 2+ in cover) is huge. Even AP-3 (I.e., what most non-anti vehicle weaponry tops out at) leaves them with a 6+ (or better).

That and a min unit of Immortals is cheaper than Amin unit of Warriors, if you’re aiming for max CP.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I would expect the next batch of codexes to be revealed on Open Day on January 6th. It's Nurgle week right now so don't hold out hope for any Necron news before then.

Reese hinted about news coming at the LVO which is 26 to 28 Jan. I got the impression that it was news about codices, but who knows.

I think hints will depend on how soon they want to roll out more codex. Honestly considering how they've hardly paused over Christmas I'd reckon that they are still aiming for that "2 per month minimum" target. So, without AOS or anything else, we might well hear more hints of another codex before the end of January. I'd certainly expect to have heard of the next 3 or 4 before the start of February.

 Overread wrote:
I think hints will depend on how soon they want to roll out more codex. Honestly considering how they've hardly paused over Christmas I'd reckon that they are still aiming for that "2 per month minimum" target. So, without AOS or anything else, we might well hear more hints of another codex before the end of January. I'd certainly expect to have heard of the next 3 or 4 before the start of February.

Agreed. I would kind of be shocked if Necron/Tau were not at least on preorder by the first week of march.

*Keeps seeing the names of further and further months mentioned*

;_;

Well we already know they are not in January otherwise GW would already be teasing some info out. So that's February at the earliest. March is only one month on from that and it stands to reason that GW would want to get more xeno factions out now. Plus they plan to have everything done within 6 months or so.

*chuckle* Dont worry about it, I tend to goldfish out on such things unless im actively reading about them etc.

I've got plenty of stuff to distract me till then.

But considering I probably have more then a month, maybe I will make some CA lists afterall for when my friend finishes assembling the stuff I got him for x-mas and invetiably wants to test them.

He got really burned out on people bitching at him because he played blood angels with lightning claws or whatever back in the day so he wanted to get away from that. Which i was sad to learn since they had the codex drop etc recently and really wanted to get him some BA stuff for x-mas.

Thankfully I learned this before purchasing and found out what he wanted, combine that with a discount day and a friend working at a hobby store all aligned like planets in the sky. To the point I got him a couple sizeable boxes of Tau stuff so he has an ok starter force for about 100$ which was about twice what I budgeted for my other friends (though if I include stuff for their kids as well it was about equal).

*laughs realizing this was his first actual purchase of new goods for WH40k and his entire army is second hand* . . .

As someone just getting into Necrons, what units of ours are best/least bad?

Just starting out you can't go wrong with the Start Collecting and by the time you have it all painted and based we should have our codex or at least previews out so then we will know what will be our most effective units. So far the only stand out is Tessy Immortals with My Will Be Done on them but once they run up against -1 to -2 to hit armies they go back to being very mediocre just like the rest of army.

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
As someone just getting into Necrons, what units of ours are best/least bad?

Page 1 has a good breakdown of our units general quality,

The Start Collecting box is pretty good, and supplementing with Immortals works well for game sometime around 1k.

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
As someone just getting into Necrons, what units of ours are best/least bad?

I would caution you about buying some of the more "exotic" stuff right now.
We're due for an update (new codex) pretty soon (next few months), so may see a big shift in what is good and what is less good.

Immortals might be safe. Warriors wouldn't be a horrible choice (though be aware that they're not that fantastic at the moment. Hopefully that changes soon).
Scarabs have more or less always been decent. Wraiths as well. Can't see GW wrecking either of them in the update (fingers crossed).

Probably hold off on things like Destroyers, Praetorians, etc. The vehicles, too.
Tomb Blades are alright at the moment, but they're one of those entries that oscillates from great to garbage with each new codex, so maybe hold for the time being.

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
As someone just getting into Necrons, what units of ours are best/least bad?

Hold off till the next batch of 40k Codices get announced. It would be a shame to buy lots of models before our Codex gets released as you might just end up with hot garbage.

However, you Can't go wrong with 2 Start Collecting boxes as it will net you 24 Warriors, 6 Scarabs, 2 Overlords (I converted one into a Cryptek) and 2 Triarch Stalkers. Immortals would be safe to buy as both version will most likely keep the same stats and rules. Everything else is up for debate when the Codex gets released because anything could change.

Well to be fair, all the Codices have made like 90% of their units playable, so there's a good chance you can buy something and it'll be good when the book comes out... assuming it's as good as all the previous books. Assumptions, though.

 Odrankt wrote:
Hold off till the next batch of 40k Codices get announced.

I wouldn't be surprised if they make this announcement during the Las Vegas Open on the 26-28 of this month.

Anyone know if the battlescribe is up to date on the unit point/PL prices with the Chapter approved release?

Haven't used it in a couple of months but was interested in trying some new builds.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Odrankt wrote:
Hold off till the next batch of 40k Codices get announced.

I wouldn't be surprised if they make this announcement during the Las Vegas Open on the 26-28 of this month.

Open Day is this weekend, I would expect something then.

Requizen wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Odrankt wrote:
Hold off till the next batch of 40k Codices get announced.

I wouldn't be surprised if they make this announcement during the Las Vegas Open on the 26-28 of this month.

Open Day is this weekend, I would expect something then.

Leave it to GW to leave that off their own Events calendar

 Ghaz wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Odrankt wrote:
Hold off till the next batch of 40k Codices get announced.

I wouldn't be surprised if they make this announcement during the Las Vegas Open on the 26-28 of this month.

Open Day is this weekend, I would expect something then.

Leave it to GW to leave that off their own Events calendar

I'm sure they'll add it in the FAQ/Errata.

Lothmar wrote:
Anyone know if the battlescribe is up to date on the unit point/PL prices with the Chapter approved release?

Haven't used it in a couple of months but was interested in trying some new builds.

It is. The two point changes for necrons are updated.

Thanks Tor.

Lothmar wrote:
Thanks Tor.

They have also added the relic and new warlord trait

Whats everyone's favorite "Tactic" for the moment? I tried the Zahndrekh Obyron/Cryptek-VoD combo with 10 Lychguard. It's good when it works but it's definitely not worth 500-600 just for a reliable alpha strike. Probably going to use VoD to deploy when in combat or defensively/wisely to get bjects late game or line breaker.

Probably going use Deceiver + 1-3 Gauss Immortals until we get our Codex or some form of update.

Im kind of tempted to try a CCB with the new less damage warlord trait combined with also fielding Toholk to give the CCB 1d3 heal as well.

But not sure what all to field with this tbh...

I tend to include one or two units of tesla immortals, almost nomatter what.

Tor - isn't that assuming you have an equal number or greater MWBD's available to use?

IE if you have 2x overlords you might field 2-3 units of Teslas (one extra for the inevetiable loss or best unit in position to take advantage of the effect) but if you were fielding more Immortals you'd probably field them as Gauss for that Ap support on heartier targets etc.

Lothmar wrote:
Im kind of tempted to try a CCB with the new less damage warlord trait combined with also fielding Toholk to give the CCB 1d3 heal as well.

But not sure what all to field with this tbh...

I heard that someone was talking to Phil Kelly at heat 2 for the Warhammer GT at Warhammer World and he asked about the new trait and the CCB. According to Phil Kelly you minus the damage first e.g. 3 becomes 2 and then you QS the damage. Not sure how reliable that source was but I am going to wait till an FaQ/Errata comes out.

Toholk + CCB is never a bad combination.

Ord -

Yeah if it turns out that the trait makes QS less effective then im guessing you wont see it used much, but until then I intend to run it QS first and then DR after.

I'm looking to get some necrons. I am going to wait until the codex drops, probably just get some warriors and immortals and lord for now. Maybe some scarabs too. I dont have any of the old codexs so I don't know what schemes each Dynasty is. Can anyone tell me what scheme is in this video. Go to about the 5:50 mark.

Also, what is the traditional black/metal/green scheme that GW has on their website and boxes?

Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFSTE1yzBeg&index=2&list=PLw8pVOyn9GVb-1uK-QpuJxv3At4IMyBD4

Dynas just remember that:

1) Your paint scheme has no effect on what army you play as. You can field bright red ultramarines and bright blue blood angles if you want

2) Outside of Space Marines and their years and years of marketing; most gamers have no idea of other faction official schemes. Even players of factions have no idea of the official schemes of alternate factions.

3) Chances are multi-faction combined armies (even if its just two factions ) might well be superior to single faction armies.

4) Chances are that you'll want to vary what faction based upon what army focus you build too; so you could well be jumping between two or three factions depending on what army builds you use.

In short don't worry "too" much about having authentic faction painted models if you don't want too. It's purely a player driven choice.

Dynas - if you can help it avoid the lord model (unless things change in the codex drop). Either that or proxy it if it's part of a box set instead of an overlord/cryptek which are better leadership atm. It's only real use is if you need as cheap a hq as possible, although the morale reroll makes taking it slightly more palatable, but be careful when you use it so you dont make a small loss a big loss. *chuckle* (ex: You lose 8 and roll a 3 and lose 1 guy on morale. It's usually better to just take the 1 lost unit instead of risking the higher odds of getting more losses. )

I think its the lord with rez orb.

@overread, i know color scheme doesn't matter, but I really like the green and I am tired of painting blue (smurfs army) and prurple (nids). I also like to try and keep to the fluff, so while I would not care if someone took red marines to play as ultramarines, I personally like to follow the fluff.

One a question of painting anyone painted their warriors without the weapon arms attached and if so any tips on how to get the warriors arms to line up well so that you can put arm to wrist on the gun so that they can be easily glued on after painting.

If you want official paint schemes, check out the Paint App. It's unironically really freaking awesome, and you can look at how they do the Sautehk models on there (it's pretty straightforward). The Dark Green paint scheme is how they do most of the Sautekh vehicles.

Requizen wrote:
If you want official paint schemes, check out the Paint App. It's unironically really freaking awesome, and you can look at how they do the Sautehk models on there (it's pretty straightforward). The Dark Green paint scheme is how they do most of the Sautekh vehicles.

It helps that Ducan has done a tutorial for the vehicles as well.


Personally I like the Novokh paint scheme.

 Dynas wrote:
Can anyone tell me what scheme is in this video. Go to about the 5:50 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFSTE1yzBeg&index=2&list=PLw8pVOyn9GVb-1uK-QpuJxv3At4IMyBD4

Also, what is the traditional black/metal/green scheme that GW has on their website and boxes?

Quick check of the video:
Description says they're from the "Nefritai Dynasty" (a home brew dynasty). Looks like silver, white, bronze, "bone," green, black.
Compare here for official GW names of colors-
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Tb5RNCujmA4/T2zt064BGSI/AAAAAAAACRI/vSfwoDVBOz8/s1600/m2320032a_Citadel_Conversion_Chart.jpg

GW's Necron poster boy Dynasty on their site is typically the Sautekh Dynasty (Imotekh's one). They're pretty easy to find color schemes on via google image search.

Dynas: If you want to go best Necron dynasty go red white and blue for Americrons.

Lothmar wrote:
red white and blue for Americrons.

Or Union Jackrons
Or Francrons
Or Australicrons
Or Necrussians
Or South Kronreans
Or Norcrons
Or

Had a bit of a chuckle yesterday playing my friend. I said 'ok im not gonna do this, but ima show you how I just won...'

Yesterday me and a friend were playing a capture the flag match, corner to corner each with a fort complex.

Anywho he had kept some units back to guard his flag but there was just enough room in the corner and he had placed his flag near the edge unfortunately (he had placed assuming I might try to bring in a 10+ man squad). So Naturally I grand illusioned up my cryptek with the veil (no mention of table edge in grand illusion text). Then with my initiative I moved him onto the flag and used the veil to GTFO at the end of the movement and placed my cryptek back onto my flag stand area. If I had been playing them I suppose I could have done the same thing with Obyron and keeping Nemesor back. *chuckle*

We both laughed and reset the board to play again with a few minor changes on his end with my permission like pulling his flag slightly more in from the edge (im helping him learn so I dont mind). Naturally I lost the second time around because he played mostly defensive/artillery imperial guard focused and just blasted me apart and sent in one team that could pick up the objective in a transport (the only units on his side that could pick it up). Rolled very poorly for my QS and invul saves on my doomsday arks and my spyder repairs so by turn 2 I had lost my long range. Thankfully I was able to rededicate the spyders to fixing up the fort structures etc but it was too small a bucket to bail out all the water.

Nearly got his flag crew with a batch of deathmarks and flayed ones i'd been holding onto. They popped out of the transport and I formed a screen with my deathmarks and shot into them. After which he had to smash through that line but he didn't have the actions to get back to the transport so my flayed ones showed up. Sadly I failed my charge even with a CP I'd squirreled away for it. :(

At which point he nabbed the flag and hauled ass and I couldn't keep up. GG at that point. Was close to forcing a draw (assuming he couldn't table me in remaining turns) with that play. Alas it was not meant to be.

Probably should have used the flayed ones to disrupt 2-3 of the tanks in his fort, even if they couldn't cause much damage forcing him to back out of combat and not being able to shoot might have got me one or more turns of fire out of my DDA's... Heck if I had sent the Cryptek in via GI and used them as a screen now with invul I might have been able to get him into reach of the flag and TP out. But he probably would have just focus fired once he realized what I was doing and that probably wouldn't have held up.

Best not to dwell too much on the 'what could I have done' I suppose.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
The veil has to be put on a HQ right, not just a character?

Ie - I cant equip a veil onto a Ctan shard right?

don't remember the specification, but its said elsewhere in CA that C'Tans can't take relics or the new warlord trait

 skoffs wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
I'm curious why Immortals aren't the superior choice

I'm pretty sure the consensus has been Immortals are the better choice for a while now, especially considering their Tesla interaction with MWBD.
It's usually new players who advocate for Warriors.

Or just really old players who like the silver tide, like me
Warrior tides are expensive though. That's probably the biggest drawback behind them. Then again, they are cheaper than in 3rd, so you can spam more of them now.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

torblind wrote:
don't remember the specification, but its said elsewhere in CA that C'Tans can't take relics or the new warlord trait

It explicitly states that C'tan cannot take artifacts. C'tan can't even have warlord traits.

If scarabs had the ability to block shots for Spyders like Tau drones (or something similar) do you think people would take spyders more? If so how would you use them?

Or would it make Spyder and Scarab heavy builds a little more viable (ie lots of spyder squads in small groups there to continue replacing larger numerous squads of scarabs around them that sacrifice themselves for the hive effectively) ?

Also should scarab stat blocks be fixed so they no longer have a 3+ BS since they have no ranged options? Ie - make it 6+ or --- and make them slightly cheaper, or offer them something like the ability to take 'pistol' class weapons (probably particle or tesla). I seriously want Scarabs to have the ability to take tesla weapons if only so I could call them 'Lightning bugs' *chuckle*

I'd actually like to have a c'tan that's as strong as a primarch. It seems primarchs are becoming pretty common nowadays, and you'd think literal stargods would be as strong as one.

Cth - well the ones we have currently are 'shards'. Even our lord of war version the TV is just a slightly pieced together puzzel (3-4 pieces of one).

But yeah I would totally buy the 'void dragon' model, especially if there's a story ark or campaign where it finally awakens and busts out of mars. Maybe even have the escape aided by Anrakyr who leads a revolt on the way out as he helps the necrons take control of a bunch of skitari and/or heavily modded mechanicum as our new Pariahs. *chuckle* Maybe Trazyn also joins the fray if only to take advantage of the distraction and steasl one of the most advanced / complete Standard Template Design databases on mars as potential inspiration for refurbishing the ancient necron legions. (even though I know it wouldn't be needed cause Necrons are way more intelligent etc. But the long sleep and only a fraction of the soul / ancient AI systems that need a tune up could easily have forgotten or have corrupted data on various subjects.)

Necrons would finally get a titan like unit (though give it monstrous keyword instead of titanic so macro weapons aren't even better against him. Heck if he was a flier and titanic fieling GP against it would be its time to shine. xD)

I found a cool bone scheme with metal and green i think i am going to try and replicate.

Lothmar wrote:
Cth - well the ones we have currently are 'shards'. Even our lord of war version the TV is just a slightly pieced together puzzel (3-4 pieces of one).

But yeah I would totally buy the 'void dragon' model, especially if there's a story ark or campaign where it finally awakens and busts out of mars. Maybe even have the escape aided by Anrakyr who leads a revolt on the way out as he helps the necrons take control of a bunch of skitari and/or heavily modded mechanicum as our new Pariahs. *chuckle* Maybe Trazyn also joins the fray if only to take advantage of the distraction and steasl one of the most advanced / complete Standard Template Design databases on mars as potential inspiration for refurbishing the ancient necron legions. (even though I know it wouldn't be needed cause Necrons are way more intelligent etc. But the long sleep and only a fraction of the soul / ancient AI systems that need a tune up could easily have forgotten or have corrupted data on various subjects.)

Necrons would finally get a titan like unit (though give it monstrous keyword instead of titanic so macro weapons aren't even better against him. Heck if he was a flier and titanic fieling GP against it would be its time to shine. xD)

Footage of Trazyn leaving Mars with the Void Dragon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ysa-4NsQ_A

Now what would be a truly amazing twist, would be if the void dragon was ironic and lead an assault on the imperial palace. The results of which ending in the void dragon snatching up the emperor throne and all (maybe throw out a Tesseract prison like a pokeball and suck it all up) and making off with him so that he could return the favor as it were and keep him just barely alive and locked up so he gets to play warden.

Granted it's no longer apples and oranges in the situations. Yeah sure in the past the emperor was the only one strong enough to subdue the dragon in the past, but at the same time man was very primitive back then and only had the forces of one world. Now the monkeys have many sophisticated tools and the armies of many worlds and stars they can muster.

…I forget are any primarchs currently known to be on Terra or in sol system (or within a short jump assuming Terra can hold a few weeks/months)?
But yeah if the crons were gonna kidnap the emperor they'd probably have to write it into the story that they seal the webway portal there (since we have the tech for it). Otherwise Terras getting invaded by chaos at that point out the palace.

Lothmar wrote:

…I forget are any primarchs currently known to be on Terra or in sol system (or within a short jump assuming Terra can hold a few weeks/months)?

Possibly Dorn.

En - My brain misassociated the necrodermis armed Ferrus Manus with Dorn at first. Good thing I checked. *chuckle*

That would be a very interesting little tidbit to finally resolve. Ferrus is defending Terra or joins them after the Dragon has been attacking for some time. The dragon is injured and then suddenly it seems like the creature gets a second wind as Ferrus shows up and it gestures towards the advancing forces and the living metal all goes flying to and affixing to the dragons own necrodermis from his arms.

What's the likelihood this is us?

None, apparently. Further leaks indicate that tomorrow's reveal is Custodes, because that makes sense with the preview. -_-

Woo. Just what the game needs more Space Marines models. Yup that is what I think to myself when I look around at all the tables as the rest of the armies sit in FailCast or even metal...

Yeah what the hell is that bs, it would be so much cooler if it was the Necron codex reveal plus some more models. What if we got our own "primarch", the Silent King? That would be so much more hype than some stupid custodes

I don't thing any xenox codexs are going to get new models yet. They are going to pump out the new sigmar marines to boost sales. We will probably see CSM primarch next if I had to guess. Just in time for when they do a Primaris release for CSM so all the CSM players can rebuy all their marines just like the SM players.

Maybe eventually all factions will have a Papa Smurf Equivalent but I wouldn't my breath for the new codex.

Necrons = Silent King
Tyrandis = Norn Queen
Eldar = Cegorach
Orks = Prob Bugg Ghazghkull and new model
CSM = pick any chapter
Tau = no idea, who cares they are all equal right?

So, I really enjoy this game and playing Necrons.

However, I recognize this game is a Space Marines as protagonist game. Chaos is the primary antagonist and Xenos (such as Necrons) are just side quests.

You will be less disappointed if you remember this and always temper your expectations when they promise “big announcements.”

Consider yourself lucky you aren’t collecting Squats.

Oh well, we've waited what, 15 million years? Couple more months won't hurt.

*rolls over in his Necrodermis blanket*

Wake me up when the REAL faction get's its codex.

I played a 2v2 vs Blood angels and Guard
Managed to kill the dropping angels and drednaughts using scarab screens, heavy destroyers and immortals...but my god...I can't put a damn wound on armor at range...Do we even have a solution to guard parking lots?? I don't think we do that isn't an overpriced doomsday ark, or squishy heavy destroyers...blegh...

Had to hold my Veil of Darkness until the last turn to deep strike, push them off a home objective, and win the game, but man did I take a lot of losses for very, very little damage in kind, my...ahem...eldar ally (random teams) did most of the damage, and I *took* most of the damage.

Triarch Stalkers with twin heavy G, force multiplier with long range anti tank and quantum shields. Synergies with DDA.

Anyone know a way to convert units into Flayed Ones for a relatively low cost? The official models and on E-bay are just sooo damn expensive!

Or maybe any 3rd-party ones?

Warrior bodies, some green stuff, a couple of those smaller spare claws from the Wraith kit (I didn't use all of mine. Only gave them the main two big claws).

I cut claws from plasticard and used spare hands (!0 available) from the immortal/deathmark kit

(pictures in my gallery page)

I'm getting tired of waiting for our codex. I thought it would be announced by now due to the fact that they are unplayable because CA refused to acknowledge Necrons (WL trait and strategem withstanding).

iGuy91 wrote: my...ahem...eldar ally

. . . get out.

Make our voices heard, send GW emails. I doubt it'll make a difference, but hey, we gotta try.

My biggest fear is that they fix the obsiously broken things (trnsports lacking transport keyword and some points reduction) but keep Reanimate as is. It doesn't scale well at all and good opponents can really easily ignore it.

Here's a draft of what I'd have to say to GW about the current state of Necrons. It's mainly gathered from reading the discussions here and some anectodal experiments from playing with them.

I'll start with what has been working great for Necrons:

Quantum Shielding: It's great. It sounds alien and is unique to Necrons, is a great rule that is relevant most of the time and feels very rewarding.

Reanimation Protocols: Going back to a unique rule that actually puts models back in the table (as opposed to a plain extra save) was very welcome. The rule has issues and I'll discuss them in detail below.

Necrons are innacurately perceived as powerful. This is perhaps the greatest hardship on balancing the Necron Codex. On the surface, their rules sound powerful and intimidating, but a somewhat informed opponent can easily focus on the weaknesses and guarantee victory due to Reanimation Protocols inner workings.

Reanimation protocols issues

New rules wins: The new rendition of Reanimation Protocols (RP) feels very thematic, bringing back some of the post "FNP-esque" ruling of 6th and 7th. As much as it feels great though, its current iteration creates some crippling issues that I'll explore below.

Negation Issue: The rule can be completely negated by opponent if he manages to wipe your squads. There is nothing the Necron player can do to prevent this and it basically means that the premium in unit cost paid for the special rule is lost.

Scale Issue: Reanimation Protocols (RP) as is has a scaling problem in where it is strong in small scale games and loses power significantly as the games scale up. The more power your opponent has to wipe your units, the smaller the effect of RP is. The issue becomes even more significant if they fail to wipe the unit, as the power is at peak efficiency the more rolls you have to make.

Please address this issue. As it is a key ability to Necrons and equals a premium on unit costing it should be carefully planned.

Army composition issue: RP encourages large units to make maximum use of the ability, but that makes it so Necron Armies have to pay a tactical tax on top of paying a unit point cost tax already. Larger blocks of warriors means costlier base tax for detachments. It all results in Necrons paying several interests on top of the base unit cost that compound into very limited actual build choices. This also results in the army losing in on Command points due to the high tax of its troops choices.

Conclusion: The combination of being easily negated by experienced players and the fact that it heavily impacts list-building into either ignoring it (going for Canoptek units or Quantum-shield spam) or sinking points into huge squads that don't do that much (basic infantry with no special wargear) means that Necron Players have a small toolbox to work with.

Proposed exploration: Allow rolling of RP after a unit wipe in some fashion. Maybe allow them to bolster other units already on the table (enemies have to wipe ALL warriors to deny warrior RP) or allow Necrons to roll for wiped units (resurrection orbs should do THAT and be cheaper).

Tombworld Deployment issues

Cool new rule: It should feel like you are the master of a legion that can teleport troops on a whim across the galaxy, but the actual inner workings of the rules makes them just broken and too much a liability.

Lack of Transport keyword: The lack of this keyword on our transports means that units arriving from Transportation Beams arrive from reserves and can't move after arriving.

Lack of character support: Since you can only bring 1 unit at a time it breaks any type of character synergy as troops are isolated and unsupported, unless the player dedicates extra resources on an additional transport for the supporting characters.

Losing the transported units is too great a liability: Since we lose the emergency disembarkation rules and just outright lose our reserved units, on top of the issues above, Necron Players simply don't feel like investing in transports and putting precious points in tomb-world development worth the risk of losing all that investment.

Proposed exploration: Consider allowing characters to be beamed over alongside a unit deployed from Tombworld. Give every model able to teleport units onto the table the Transport keyword. Consider some alternative to emergency disembarkation or even just allow the units to safely disembark upon destruction and factor that in the points cost of a transport unit, something that makes Necrons feel even more advanced, ignoring certain perils that other races must consider when transporting units.

Lack of character synergy

Destroyer Lords are melee beasts, but buff a ranged option.

Necron Lords are near useless as we usually invest heavily.

Overlords only buff a single unit, as opposed to something like SM chapter masters and their buff auras.

Proposed exploration: Explore the Necron Hierarchy. Make Overlords be able to buff more units the more Lords you have, make Lords cheaper and allow them to enhance an Overlord's buffs. Something unique to Necrons. Overlords could get a secondary aura ability based on supporting lords/crypteks.

Lack of Psychic power counters

Necrons should be somewhat resistant to Psychic powers, especially the ones that deal with Leadership effects.

... you realize it's most likely too late, right?
Even if they saw this, if the codex is coming out in the next couple of months, that means it's already ready to print, if not currently being printed.

 skoffs wrote:
... you realize it's most likely too late, right?
Even if they saw this, if the codex is coming out in the next couple of months, that means it's already ready to print, if not currently being printed.

I do, but hey, we gotta start somewhere right?

With enough pressure they may try to address something in a FAQ like at least seeing the issue and dropping unit costs even more than initially planned. I don't know, they have added keywords before (CCB getting Character) so at least some stuff can be fixed after release.

An alternative / addition to your RP suggestion - allow Spyders to permit nearby wiped units to make reanimation rolls, like how they worked in 3rd ed.

Other suggestions - more geometric necron vehicles. The new vehicles don't really fit with the necron aesthetic, nor do they make much sense lore wise. Why would a race obssesed with self preservation make such flimsy vehicles, especially if they are meant to be on the battlefield? I would like to see more vehicles like the monolith; high armor, solid, no obvious weakpoints. Let these be the main combat vehicles of the necron, and the 5th ed ones be more like support / repurposed civilian combat vehicles, like how the ghost ark was just a hearse.

More teleportation options - like in 3rd ed.

CC destroyers - because a caste of machines dedicated to murder shouldn't be picky about getting in close

Pariahs - because that was a great concept and cool models. Lychguard and praets do not compare. At all.

A big canoptek unit that serves as an HQ. Something like a canoptek overseer / controller thing, that directs and buffs nearby canopteks

Where do you even post suggestions like that? Spam their facebook?
I did ask something about necrons, and I all got was the generic "don't worry, necrons will get "cool" stuff, promise!"

Cool in is quotation, because apparently GW's idea of cool differs from mine concerning necrons.
Evidently GW's idea of cool is to give necrons baby's bonnet crest and giving them vehicles that whilst may look fine on their own, isn't really consistent with the necron aesthetic or lore, and also are complete bitches to assemble.

Yeah, that reveal was a MASSIVE let down for me.

Geederps... derping it up right into 2018!

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Spoiler:

An alternative / addition to your RP suggestion - allow Spyders to permit nearby wiped units to make reanimation rolls, like how they worked in 3rd ed.

Other suggestions - more geometric necron vehicles. The new vehicles don't really fit with the necron aesthetic, nor do they make much sense lore wise. Why would a race obssesed with self preservation make such flimsy vehicles, especially if they are meant to be on the battlefield? I would like to see more vehicles like the monolith; high armor, solid, no obvious weakpoints. Let these be the main combat vehicles of the necron, and the 5th ed ones be more like support / repurposed civilian combat vehicles, like how the ghost ark was just a hearse.

More teleportation options - like in 3rd ed.

CC destroyers - because a caste of machines dedicated to murder shouldn't be picky about getting in close

Pariahs - because that was a great concept and cool models. Lychguard and praets do not compare. At all.

A big canoptek unit that serves as an HQ. Something like a canoptek overseer / controller thing, that directs and buffs nearby canopteks

Where do you even post suggestions like that? Spam their facebook?

Your ideas are cool, but I want to avoid getting too much into wishlisting, my main intent with my previous post was to discuss the perceived issues with current necron rules and explore what message we want to give GW, let them sort out the actual rules.

As far as new models and art direction, I think that's a topic for another day, another thread.

If you want to contact GW there are 2 official channels that I know of: Facebook page and the rules FAQ email 40KFAQ@gwplc.com that they posted on the warhammer community page a while ago.

Skoff -

I dont know why but I laughed when reading that poster and imagining the incredible longshot that the old ones just said 'you know what feth this.' and chose now of all times to come back. xD

Oof, I hope the Old Ones don't return. That would kill all of the mystery about them and it reeks of hackneyed writing. Its as bad as the Primarchs coming back and walking among humans again, which before was just something in If The Emperor Had a Text To Speech device. A parody.

I swear GW must be taking ideas from that series. Too many things are getting similar. Even the Custodes are becoming more active, like in the series.

Now, an Old One superweapon / construct? Yeah, sure. The Blackstone fortresses were implied to be Old One weapons, so there is some sort of precedence for it.
But actual Old Ones? No. Unless Forge World ever decides to cover the War in Heaven. In that case yes.

Lothmar wrote:
Skoff -

I dont know why but I laughed when reading that poster and imagining the incredible longshot that the old ones just said 'you know what feth this.' and chose now of all times to come back. xD

I was also, deep down, hoping for that to be the Old ones. It could have brought a kind of ressurrection to the Necron faction as well. Just imagine the Old Ones release alongside the Silent King's return.

Alas, I like the Custodes release. But a bit of my soul was lost when I read the actual release.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Played against Death guard yesterday.

He had a Leviathan Dread with quad something powerful...

Failed to injure it much Turn 1 (my mistake, playing the Patrol mission and I should have held my Tesseract ark in reserves) and that thing proceeded to wipe a unit a turn with the deathguard stratagem to shoot twice with a dread.

We seriously need some rework of the RP rule or some cheap stratagems to get our investment back into it.

CS: It's like you have something against booping the snoot...
https://youtu.be/MQaDq01M-O4

Lothmar wrote:
CS: It's like you have something against booping the snoot...
https://youtu.be/MQaDq01M-O4

I love that episode. The parody of Vulcan has to be the best thing to have come out of the fandom.
However, I generally prefer to keep my parodies separate from the source material, especially when it comes to 40k, which also started as a parody of 80s pop culture, sci-fi and the dark moments of human history.

If a parody takes inspiration of a parody of itself, what are we left with? I don't know, but I don't like it.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If a parody takes inspiration of a parody of itself, what are we left with? I don't know, but I don't like it.

Memes.

arhurt wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If a parody takes inspiration of a parody of itself, what are we left with? I don't know, but I don't like it.

Memes.

Thanks for the chuckle.

Warriors don't have much variety and that seems to bother people, what could they possible have though? A tesla gun? Some grenades? Personally I think they should just be tougher, maybe T5 instead of T4. Or maybe a 3+ save. Something that will prevent them from getting wiped out in one turn.

epaemil wrote:
Warriors don't have much variety and that seems to bother people, what could they possible have though? A tesla gun? Some grenades? Personally I think they should just be tougher, maybe T5 instead of T4. Or maybe a 3+ save. Something that will prevent them from getting wiped out in one turn.

That's the point though. Warriors are supposed to be cannon fodder, the lowest caste of necron. They are basically mass produced drones, at least from a necron perspective. Having no weapon options is intended and should remain as such.
Though in 3rd ed they were given the option to take disruption fields, which was basically a close combat version of gauss. Not quite the same as personalizing their loadout like marines.
Its funny you mentioned a 3+ save, because they had that in 3rd ed. Immortals were a T5 elite choice too.

I think infantry being able to take some kind of Teleportation beacons would be interesting. Basically a piece of wargear that lets the unit RP back models that failed their morale. (would really help big mobs of warriors/flayed ones) I mean all our units are hooked up to an AI system with partitioning command protocols etc if I remember right. So morale failures always rung as a 'system error' and the AI beaming the unit back for maintenance.

Or maybe make its a piece the leadership takes and thus it becomes an aura ability. (finally a use for Lords?)

Also If the units wiped out entirely you can spend a command point and do the RP but they have to be placed around the leadership (so yes you are still limited to maybe 6-8 models or so? But hey better then being completely gone.) or within 'X' inches where the last model died, stand it up first and then begin rp'ing around it (and if several models fled due to failed morale you can bring them back first before RP'ing around those).

----

But yeah Warriors with tesla and mwbd would be insane... *shudders* So best not to dream that big.

Honestly I wouldn't mind something like giving them a particle weapon + a decent melee weapon. ie - same strenght and no shooting AP but better melee butchery. (+1 str, -1 ap)

Or maybe the ability to make them a phalanx with slightly weaker dispersion shields and a pistol (swat style) or staff of light lite. Alternatively simple sword and board like hyperphase wouldn't be bad albeit lack of range support.

---

CS-

I had almost forgotten about disruption fields... Wasn't there also like a lightning field thing Stormlord could do? Or am I misremembering?

Lothmar wrote:
I think infantry being able to take some kind of Teleportation beacons would be interesting. Basically a piece of wargear that lets the unit RP back models that failed their morale. (would really help big mobs of warriors/flayed ones) I mean all our units are hooked up to an AI system with partitioning command protocols etc if I remember right. So morale failures always rung as a 'system error' and the AI beaming the unit back for maintenance.

Or maybe make its a piece the leadership takes and thus it becomes an aura ability. (finally a use for Lords?)

Also If the units wiped out entirely you can spend a command point and do the RP but they have to be placed around the leadership (so yes you are still limited to maybe 6-8 models or so? But hey better then being completely gone.) or within 'X' inches where the last model died, stand it up first and then begin rp'ing around it (and if several models fled due to failed morale you can bring them back first before RP'ing around those).

----

But yeah Warriors with tesla and mwbd would be insane... *shudders* So best not to dream that big.

Honestly I wouldn't mind something like giving them a particle weapon + a decent melee weapon. ie - same strenght and no shooting AP but better melee butchery. (+1 str, -1 ap)

Or maybe the ability to make them a phalanx with slightly weaker dispersion shields and a pistol (swat style) or staff of light lite. Alternatively simple sword and board like hyperphase wouldn't be bad albeit lack of range support.

---

CS-

I had almost forgotten about disruption fields... Wasn't there also like a lightning field thing Stormlord could do? Or am I misremembering?

Well, Imotekh wasn't around in 3rd ed, so no
Never used Imotekh, so other than his lightning artillery strike I don't really know, other than he popped up in 5th ed.

What might be interesting is to allow crypteks and lords to join warrior squads, or even have another type of model entirely. This "minder" model's deal could be that his job is to make sure the warriors are working as intended, because they are basically mass produced expendable garbage, at least to overlords, and he could be the source of most of the cool upgrades. Like grenades and stuff.

Also, maybe ripping off the scourge from Dropzone and allowing warriors to combine their shots into stronger ones might be interesting.
Iirc, the scourge warriors in Dropzone could pool together their hits (3 hits at a time) to make a stronger hit. So it can go from something like E4 to E10. Something like that, I forgot the details. The idea was is that so many plasma rounds are hitting the target that it just eats through the target's armor.
You can apply a similar concept to warriors - so much gauss is being poured into the target that it just melts them.

For those who don't visit News & Rumours:

 Ghaz wrote:
For those who don't visit News & Rumours:

Spoiler:

Well, if its slated for a march release they probably already have all of new models in storage. So I really hope they have better vehicle designs that are less space Egyptian boats and more space Egyptian masonry.

I'd be very surprised if Necrons got new models - so far very few factions have had anything new in the codex releases; even some almost certain plastic versions (eg biovore/pyrovore plastics for tyranids) haven't appeared.

Necrons could do with more of hteir lords in plastic, but otherwise I can't see a burning need for updated models for most of the range. A new warrior set without glowrods (fitting the transport); a new monolith (old model) but honestly there isn't really anything "screaming" for a new model.

New stuff would be neat, but I don't expect to see it

Yeah if this is semi-accurate, I'd expect just a Codex considering they list it at the end of March and have releases in April. Maybe one new character, but we have a pretty Plastic line so nothing really to replace other than Named characters.

 Overread wrote:
I'd be very surprised if Necrons got new models - so far very few factions have had anything new in the codex releases; even some almost certain plastic versions (eg biovore/pyrovore plastics for tyranids) haven't appeared.

Necrons could do with more of hteir lords in plastic, but otherwise I can't see a burning need for updated models for most of the range. A new warrior set without glowrods (fitting the transport); a new monolith (old model) but honestly there isn't really anything "screaming" for a new model.

New stuff would be neat, but I don't expect to see it

The failcast flayed ones need to be replaced, nothing like dropping almost 150$ on a twenty man unit for a bunch of mono-pose models that look like crap. Another area I feel like we are lacking in is non-forgeworld dreadnought equivalents, Spyders used to do that but they went a different way this edition. I suppose if you squint hard enough at the statline you could mistake a CCB/AB for a dread, but it's not a good comparison. So a plastic tomb sentinel/stalker seems like a low effort way to toss us a bone.