Zywus wrote: There has to be others who'd take on a smaller order.
Or it could come down to the smarts of Mantic. "Hey guys we have enough of the Blaine's on Dino now to cover those few missing orders and have some for the points system so we're going to destroy the molds to save 1 Cubic foot of space in our warehouse. Any body think that's a bad idea? No, then let's get some gas and a lighter and burn Blaine like a Walking Dead victim". Then the next morning they find out about the 200 or so missing pledges .
It's not impossible that they've been unfortunate enough to loose the master (or masters) in transit between caster and Mantic's Shed
but in that case i'd exect them to go back to the sculptor and get him to either clean up a production cast to use as a new master (not such a huge deal with a quality resin cast), or even sculpt the whole thing again
Do mantic still cast stuff inhouse? I remember they used to cast metal stuff in house but I haven´t heard anything about resin being cast in Nottingham.
Zywus wrote:There has to be others who'd take on a smaller order.
Mymearan wrote:Prodos produces them though. They probably have minimum orders.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:It's not impossible that they've been unfortunate enough to loose the master (or masters) in transit between caster and Mantic's Shed
but in that case i'd exect them to go back to the sculptor and get him to either clean up a production cast to use as a new master (not such a huge deal with a quality resin cast), or even sculpt the whole thing again
costs more cash, but not impossible
The only way it would be impossible to make more would be if they had a contract with Prodos for production that either prohibited allowing other companies to produce them, or set a cap on the total number produced. If that's the case, it's really, really dumb.
Practically, you can take a cleaned up resin model and dupe it pretty easily. You will lose a small amount of detail, but you can get the model duplicated.
Obviously we've only had third hand reports and speculation that the blaines wont' be fulfilled, so I won't want to get the pitchforks and torches... yet. If true though, that's a big deal. Not delivering a Kickstarter exclusive resin model, even to only a few backers, really limits their credibilty with exclusives and third party materials going forward.
Nostromodamus wrote: I thought Prodos only made a portion of the Blaines, and they had someone else making the rest?
Someone else was making the initial batch, but there were shortages and quality issues, so they got Prodos to make more, but production was slow and purposeless. I got my Blaine on Dino, but nothing else from my order, until i for weeks and then they sent me the rest of my order and 2 ronnies , i hope that's not what they ran out of .
Theophony wrote: and then they sent me the rest of my order and 2 ronnies
I would facepalm too if Mantic screwed up so hard that they accidently sent me a video of a classic comedy duo instead of my plastic mans.
With some peoples experience with mantic it would suit a slightly modified version of the old sign off too "Its a big FU from me, and a big FU from him, goodnight"
Wow, I've just noticed their price raise, at least in the KoW range. 25-30% in some of the boxes. I think they're shooting themselves in the foot here, most of their minis are not worth anything more than what they already were charging for them.
Korinov wrote: Wow, I've just noticed their price raise, at least in the KoW range. 25-30% in some of the boxes. I think they're shooting themselves in the foot here, most of their minis are not worth anything more than what they already were charging for them.
Your not looking at the Austraillian site are you......Wait wrong thread
Theophony wrote: Your not looking at the Austraillian site are you......Wait wrong thread
I was looking at their official website and for a moment I thought I had accidentally set the prices on dollars instead of euros, but no.
Seriously, 40€ for their eight models cavalry kits... they were well priced before at 30€, Mantic's strongest asset has always been their affordable prices, they're stepping into very dangerous ground right now.
I could also be that they finally are adjusting for the difference between the Pound Sterling and the Euro, of course the adjustment between Sterling and Dollar is still well out of whack.
Korinov wrote: Wow, I've just noticed their price raise, at least in the KoW range. 25-30% in some of the boxes. I think they're shooting themselves in the foot here, most of their minis are not worth anything more than what they already were charging for them.
Yep, definitely a chunky price rise has just happened across the entire range. It's not a euro/dollar thing either, the GBP prices also went up.
Regiments used to be £15, now they're £18.
Hordes used to be £25, now £30.
Cavalry used to be £20, now £25.
Individual war machines used to be £8, ow £10.
Units of 3 large infantry are now £18 rather than £15.
All characters now seem to be £7, a moderate increase from the £6.49 they were before anyway.
Overall, around a 20-25% blanket price increase across the entire range.
The price hike is even greater in euros, which makes no sense considering right now the exchange rate is 1 pound = 1.3 euros (against the previous 1p = 1.4e). Cavalry boxes were previously around 30 euros I think, now they're 40€. That's a 33.3% price increase. Mantic has gone nuts.
Maybe they finally got round to doing their accounts properly and found with all the price rises in shipping etc a bunch of the kits were selling at break even/a loss
Dreamforged recently had to increase prices for just that reason after they stopped being distributed by WGF
and it wouldn't surprise me if Mantic, carried along by Ronnies enthusiasm and kickstarter hadn't been keeping a proper eye on the costs of the normal operation.. dragging all staff including the boss into packing KS pledges, running KS campaigns etc every few months probably means other things to slip by unnoticed
Even taking such things into account, even with the usual inflation issue, some things are simply insane. They sell cavalries for 25 pounds and hordes for 30, then you switch to euros and it's 40 for both
At the current exchange rate, 32.5€ for cavalries and 39€ would be the exact equivalents.
€40 for those cavalry units is a very bad idea, those models really aren't worth *that* much.
OTOH let's not forget Mantic's tendency to sell things in bundles which are hugely discounted: the undead elite army as still up on Mantic's webshop has Ilona, 3 werewolves, a balefire catapult, twenty(!) revenant cavalry and 5 soul reaver cavalry at GBP50/EUR70. That's a 60% discount. You could get it just to get 20 revenant cavalry at a €10 discount and have the other models entirely free.
More interestingly though, Wayland has that elite army up (at a further 20% discount of course) with Ilona replaced with a unit of three wights. Just a sketch in the picture, but they also have a wight unit up for preorder at GBP16 (after 20% discount; GBP20 RRP) and explicitly list "Ghostly Flames, Vicious Weapons, 40mm Bases". That unit has this concept art attached:
There's also an undead Lykanis (which is a werewolf character in the undead list) up for preorder, RRP10, no pics yet.
Nick W posted about having seen the new Wights yesterday on one of the facebook groups, they are a new sculpt better suited to the bigger 40mm bases than the old ones made for 20s.
Ewwwww....Makes me feel better about just keeping going with GW models for quite a few things. Quality has to be high enough for the additional cost. Outside of a few kits they just don't have that quality yet.
Interesting that the price rises were not communicated beforehand via the blog/newsletter. IIRC with previous price rises they were communicated in advance with "you have x weeks to buy at the old price". Whilst Mantics communication with individuals can be hit and miss their communication en mass is usually very good. Still for anyone interested in the kits at the old prices I am sure plenty of FLGS and online retailers will have the older cheaper stock for a while yet.
NTRabbit wrote: Nick W posted about having seen the new Wights yesterday on one of the facebook groups, they are a new sculpt better suited to the bigger 40mm bases than the old ones made for 20s.
Ah, okay. Any actual model pics seen yet?
BTW there's also these preorders on WG I can't find on mantic's own site yet:
Elf Silverbreeze Cavalry 5 models RRP GBP15
Abyssal Dwarf Slavedriver 1 model RRP GBP7
Dwarf Steel Behemoth 1 model 50x100 base RRP GBP25
And additionally, there's a Troll Bruiser up for preorder in the Orcs section, RRP GBP10, without concept art (always promising with Mantic...)
Those things are presumably next in line but it's pretty early for pre-ordering.
Well, presumably if they have firm pricing information that means Mantic have pushed out some sort of price list with these on it to their distributors or large customers. Can't imagine a retailer just taking a guess at those (even if the 40mm unit of three, the 5xCav and the characters are predictably priced, the dwarf steamroller would have been a bit of a guess) and allowing folks to order at those prices.
But yes, it's Wayland Games, so even if it wasn't a preorder you might well be waiting 3+ months for your order; might as well put these up as well
The stealth price rise is disappointing, the best selling point of mantic's range is how cheap it is to build an army. It does them no good if everyone is playing KOW but nobody is using their models.
Odd timing for a significant price rise without warning, given that GW is putting out their much improved value "Start Collecting" series of boxes right now...
Azazelx wrote: Odd timing for a significant price rise without warning, given that GW is putting out their much improved value "Start Collecting" series of boxes right now...
Not really. Those Start Collecting boxes are heavily discounted and are still insanely priced.
Look at the Orc boxes for KoW and AoS. The AoS one gets you six cavalry models, eleven infantry models, and a chariot. The KoW Orc starter, for the same price, gives you ten cavalry models, 40 infantry, 3 chariots, and a bunch of smaller models for three bases of swarm infantry.
Azazelx wrote: Odd timing for a significant price rise without warning, given that GW is putting out their much improved value "Start Collecting" series of boxes right now...
Not really. Those Start Collecting boxes are heavily discounted and are still insanely priced.
Look at the Orc boxes for KoW and AoS. The AoS one gets you six cavalry models, eleven infantry models, and a chariot. The KoW Orc starter, for the same price, gives you ten cavalry models, 40 infantry, 3 chariots, and a bunch of smaller models for three bases of swarm infantry.
Certainly the KoW "army boxes" are still nicely priced, and the discount is huge. Perhaps the price raise is deliberately aimed at trying to sell more army boxes and less individual units.
Still, I find little incentive to buy ten abyssal dwarf decimators (metal/plastic hybrid models) for 25€ when I can get the Russian Alternative arquebusiers for 30€ (full metal, way better models).
Exactly. And that's the issue. Mantic will get people to build armies with their models thru price. They aren't in the big kids league of awesomeness of sculpt. Bumping their prices narrows that gap of cheap vs. pretty. Where someone might not spend $10 for prettier they will spend $5 and that kinda the gap they've closed.
I've been checking the KoW store for some months to see if the new Goblin army deal was out and I think the price rises have been rolled out over time as they repackaged the range after KoW2 came out.
On a individual level their prices are too high and in many cases I'd rather get GW models (like goblin cavalry) but when it comes to the army deals Mantic are really hard to beat.
Btw, what happened to the chess clock app? I still need to claim mine.
Yeah, I wouldn't get too excited. That's probably restic, hence the low price. Usually when "plastics" are made based on metal miniature molds, they tend to be restic, not HIPS. That's what Studio McVey did, that's what Mantic does, and it's what Privateer Press does.
Hey guys - as much as I enjoy alternative chaos dwarf models (I have some from probably a dozen ranges myself!) this thread is devoted to Mantic's fantasy releases.
Mentioning an alternative is totally fine, but we shouldn't discuss it too in-depth... a thread for Russian Alternative would be best at this point.
Fluff wise Ophidia is the successor civilisation to the Empire of Dust, ie Tomb Kings, formed by a few princes and their followers who got out of the old empire degenerated into roving bands of undead being used as political weapons. Not sure what visual aesthetic they'll go with, but KoM + undead laborers is the theme.
The "something else" is the unnamed "Northern Alliance" or "Winterlands" army, it's referenced in the elf fluff in the main rulebook - a city in the north called "Chill" founded by an exiled prince, who may have found an artifact of great power in the wastes. He's followed by his equally exiled, homeless, or dispossessed 'vibrant and ambitious' elves from all the kindreds. along with norse humans, ice elementals, and other creatures of the cold such as snow trolls and yetis. Possibly also Ogres.
Some people assume them to be a settlement of the Ice Elves from the Bitterlands, but Elvenholme knows better.
I seriously question how many people will want to buy the standalone parts of that bundle as long as the bundle exists.
Of course, they're not the only company to do weird stuff like this. While reception to GW's new "Start Collecting" sets seems to be positive, it has created it's share of pricing weirdness. Probably the most blatant being "why would you ever want to buy a standalone Carnosaur or pack of Crisis Suits?".
Mantic pricing has always been about bulk, the same thing came up in the sci fi thread about 12 months ago - at the time, the plastic Enforcers in a minimum box of 10 cost the same as 10 troopers from Dreamforge, which are nicer for the price. But if you went to buy 40 troopers from Dreamforge it was the same price per unit, whereas a box of 40 Enforcers ended up ~$15 cheaper.
The reprinted 'Adventurers Companion' for Dungeon Saga turned up today. - It even fixed the wrong text for the Sylph. - Now I actually know what one is!
Seems like they're very monoposed though. Hopefully there are some variant arms in the kit at least or it'll be too many duplicates when making a horde.
I like the look of them, but I fear they only have the three variants.
I was put off of the soul reavers for this reason, nice models but there is only 5 of them, in a minimum troop of 10 having two of each model looks naff.
Oh don't get me wrong, the wights look good, I'll probably pick them up, but only one set of 3.
If I find I really NEED a horde of them for games I'll have to try some conversions, or maybe see if somebody like reaper do some other models that fit in.
The Anti Paladin, Order of the Scourge Hellknight, Order of the Nail Hellknight, and three Barrow Wardens, all from Bones 2, are close enough to the theme that you can mix and match.
I've also seen some good conversions using Sigmarines.
I think there were plans for an official website to be done by Mantic and the RC, but I think this works better since it is open to contributions and guest articles and can cover non-mantic miniatures.
The getting started guide for people who currently own warhammer armies is great:
One more question - where makes the most sense to post KoW army lists for critique? Obviously there's the Mantic subforum here which I'll use, but what is the next resource?
For example, with chaos dwarfs I would use chaos dwarfs online, but now that I'm configuring them for KoW I'd like to both get advice and see others lists / etc. Boss Salvage pointed me to this awesome resource for bat reps, but looking to find one for list building discussion too
One more question - where makes the most sense to post KoW army lists for critique? Obviously there's the Mantic subforum here which I'll use, but what is the next resource?
For example, with chaos dwarfs I would use chaos dwarfs online, but now that I'm configuring them for KoW I'd like to both get advice and see others lists / etc. Boss Salvage pointed me to this awesome resource for bat reps, but looking to find one for list building discussion too
^ Congrats! List building definitely isn't everything when it comes to KoW.
Having a strategy for the list is more important than the contents of the list itself.
Really glad to hear that Ogres won a tournament, we've been hearing reports of all sorts of armies managing to score a #1 spot in a tournament, or place highly, the balance of the game is really good.
Lots of different builds possible even within the same army, there's no "one way" to play any particular army.
scarletsquig wrote: ^ Congrats! List building definitely isn't everything when it comes to KoW.
Having a strategy for the list is more important than the contents of the list itself.
Really glad to hear that Ogres won a tournament, we've been hearing reports of all sorts of armies managing to score a #1 spot in a tournament, or place highly, the balance of the game is really good.
Lots of different builds possible even within the same army, there's no "one way" to play any particular army.
Well, i'm the guy who was arguing that psychological victories are needed in KoW. As expected, fitting an Ogre Legion and Grokagamok in at 2000pts, meant scared opponents who GREATLY over-committed to dealing with them (with even top-tier opponents frequently taking bait, side charging them even if it meant exposing two or even three units rear facings to Hordes of Siege-Breakers).
Compel wrote: Just in case anyones curious / waiting.
The reprinted 'Adventurers Companion' for Dungeon Saga turned up today. - It even fixed the wrong text for the Sylph. - Now I actually know what one is!
Did you get any kind of ship notice, or did it just turn up?
If the arms are mix and match on the Wights, then those are really cool. If not, they're not bad but it would be a real missed opportunity.
The werewolf is ...odd. At least they tried to paint him a more traditional scheme but that fur patch is just ...weird.
The troll.. He's kinda cool but the way the arms join the body kinda throws it and I feel like the legs could stand to be a tad thicker. I'm sure he'll get lots of hate but I think he's at the borderline of being an interestingly quirky sculpt and a bad one.
That Abyssal is nice. I hope his whip is pewter so it can be smoothed out though.
I haven't been keeping up with KoW. Where do I look to see what all is needed to hop in (especially if I have tons of models already). Are the newest armies in the main rulebook?
Polio is the scourge of the lycanthrope community.
The werewolf could have been so great...could have. I can't even say his upper half is good because of that bizarre muzzle. It looks like a bee stung the nose of an Oozaru. A Ferengi Oozaru. It makes the Frostgrave gnolls look like they were sculpted by a meticulous anatomist.
And the troll is just trolling. Literally.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The slavedriver looks interesting to me. His flashy pose is exactly what I would expect from a chef who prepares the fish at your table, which nicely aligns with his outfit.
The slavedriver looks interesting to me. His flashy pose is exactly what I would expect from a chef who prepares the fish at your table, which nicely aligns with his outfit.
Bob, I need to know where you're eating because I would pay for someone dressed like that Abyssal to prepare my meal at my table. #notjoking
MLaw wrote: II haven't been keeping up with KoW. Where do I look to see what all is needed to hop in (especially if I have tons of models already). Are the newest armies in the main rulebook?
The game rules (minus the artifacts) are availible free on the Mantic homepage. There you can also download stipped down army lists (not all units are included) for some of the more common armies.
http://www.manticgames.com/games/kings-of-war/free-rules.html
Kings of War 2nd edition has lists and fluff for the 12 "original" armies. Uncharted empires covers 9 newly released armies, most being designed to accomodate existing WHFB armies not covered in the main book and two wholly new ones (Nightstalkers, Trident realm).
All unit stats are also availible for free at the army building webpage of http://kow2.easyarmy.com/ but it can be a little hard to know what everything represent it you're not already familiar with the armies.
The slavedriver looks interesting to me. His flashy pose is exactly what I would expect from a chef who prepares the fish at your table, which nicely aligns with his outfit.
Bob, I need to know where you're eating because I would pay for someone dressed like that Abyssal to prepare my meal at my table. #notjoking
I think it was in LA during some parade. You'll know you've found it when you can't stop making Lo Pan jokes.
(I thought it was Benihana, but google seems to think those chefs lack the proper flamboyance.)
Like many, tiny leg syndrome doesn't work for me, but having produced the unit models like that (and as a long term victim of GW's treatment of CSM and HE), I would rather have further releases be consistent in style.
It would be nice if someone (possibly mantic) would release alternative troll legs to make less ridiculously top heavy. The design of the trolls would be quite nice otherwise.
Though the body is in one part I think so perhaps it would be too much work to replace the legs. Better to just purchase from another line.
Zywus wrote: It would be nice if someone (possibly mantic) would release alternative troll legs to make less ridiculously top heavy. The design of the trolls would be quite nice otherwise.
Though the body is in one part I think so perhaps it would be too much work to replace the legs. Better to just purchase from another line.
^This! I really like the trolls and they are the right size to work in Restic but the legs are preventing me getting anymore (still got my KS ones).
Zywus wrote: It would be nice if someone (possibly mantic) would release alternative troll legs to make less ridiculously top heavy. The design of the trolls would be quite nice otherwise.
Though the body is in one part I think so perhaps it would be too much work to replace the legs. Better to just purchase from another line.
^This! I really like the trolls and they are the right size to work in Restic but the legs are preventing me getting anymore (still got my KS ones).
Yeah, the decision to double down on the teeny-tiny legs is baffling.
Agreed, those Wights are sweet! The Lycan's not bad at all, imo, and the troll will be great as soon as they decide to use bigger legs - a conversion kit might not be a bad idea
Can we even say they "skipped" leg day any more? I think we really need to face up to the fact that they never had any intention of addressing their legs, no matter the day.
I will add my voice to the calls for a third party leg maker for Mantic. There is probably money to be made there, given how many people are getting into KoW and how bad the legs are. The tough part would be deciding where to start. Or, well I guess the tough part is really being able to sculpt the legs, which puts me out of the running
judgedoug wrote: Wights look really cool, as in, I can't think of anything comparable to them that exists in the wide world of miniatures.
Everything else is kinda bleh. Like clearance bin Reaper sculpts from 2003. or pre-Warmachine, Iron Kingdoms miniatures.
I used godslayer troglodyte longshadows for my wights. Honestly I'd do it again if I had the choice today. It's a fairly similar concept, too.
This post prompted me to go look.. which led to me discovering the "Feral Fleshpounder" which I will be snickering about for at least another hour so thank you for that.
The longshadows are pretty sweet too. I can't decide if I like the Mantic ones a little better or not.. They are fairly stylized by comparison to the Godslayer ones but I am a bit undecided..
I could see a Fluff piece written about how trolls almost took over Mantica, the only thing that stops their advance was a set of regular stairs that they were unable to climb because of the height of each step . It's almost like an upside down Tyrannosaurus rex .
I know that I am in the minority, and may in fact be the only one, but I rather like the tiny legs on the trolls. Looking at the models from above the tabletop gives a kind of forced-perspective that makes them seem even more massive. Your Mileage May Vary, of course, but it works for me.
judgedoug wrote: Wights look really cool, as in, I can't think of anything comparable to them that exists in the wide world of miniatures.
Everything else is kinda bleh. Like clearance bin Reaper sculpts from 2003. or pre-Warmachine, Iron Kingdoms miniatures.
I used godslayer troglodyte longshadows for my wights. Honestly I'd do it again if I had the choice today. It's a fairly similar concept, too.
This post prompted me to go look.. which led to me discovering the "Feral Fleshpounder" which I will be snickering about for at least another hour so thank you for that.
The longshadows are pretty sweet too. I can't decide if I like the Mantic ones a little better or not.. They are fairly stylized by comparison to the Godslayer ones but I am a bit undecided..
Growing up is overrated The longshadows are quite well-sculpted, finely detailed models for sure. I'm not too impressed with what I can glean from the one available pic in that regard but I might change my mind once better pics turn up. I am slowly warming up to them a little - suppose in the end it might largely be a matter of taste between those two options. They are very similarly priced (per model that is).
I haven't been keeping up with KoW. Where do I look to see what all is needed to hop in (especially if I have tons of models already). Are the newest armies in the main rulebook?
Zywus got you with the rules links. Basically, if you've got tons of models then you're pretty much set to start whenever you like. Just hammer your models into an army list and you're good.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I'm tempted to convert one into a troll-centaur, with a troll's torso and the lower body of a housecat.
Annnnnnnd literally just choked on my coffee
OT: Wights look really solid, and I actually like the Bruiser, tiny legs or otherwise. Probably because he's Hefting His Weapon Whilst Pointing - a personal fetish of mine
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I'm tempted to convert one into a troll-centaur, with a troll's torso and the lower body of a housecat.
Annnnnnnd literally just choked on my coffee
OT: Wights look really solid, and I actually like the Bruiser, tiny legs or otherwise. Probably because he's Hefting His Weapon Whilst Pointing - a personal fetish of mine
- Salvage
Your Facebook page shows a strange lack of certain Omega's pulling such a pose. FIX IT.
In return, I can probably teach Olive to pull that pose while babbling "Forwahd!"
But you are 100% certainly NOT going to get your missing Blaine on dionsaur. For whatever crazy reason, Mantic are unable to fufill that for people who they missed out the first time round. However, you should get that personally confirmed from mantic first.
What will then (probably) happen is that mantic will ask you if you would prefer a substitute similarly sized miniature, and what one.
Personally, if I was affected by this mistake (fortunately, I wasn't, but a couple of my mates were), I would have found it to be as big a farce as the Adventurers Companion screw up.
There was a wishy washy reference to, "some missing models" in one of their KoW updates or emails/comments and being unable to source replacements, therefore providing alternatives for them if you contact them, if I remember right.
Is my entire KoW2 order being held while they look for an alternative? If they contacted me, I would be happy to make my preferences known. Instead, I am in the dark with no show for my rewards.
Probably not, I imagine they've just screwed up in general on that front.
It's worth highlighting that everything I know is from various stories / complaints about my mates who have had problems. - I just went in for the simple rulebook/Blaine pledge.
I suppose the advantage they've had, is that, with us being in the UK, they've been able to contact mantic directly/in-person and ask, "what the heck is going on?" to a real human being rather than a ticketing service.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Is my entire KoW2 order being held while they look for an alternative? If they contacted me, I would be happy to make my preferences known. Instead, I am in the dark with no show for my rewards.
Their customer service/fulfillment is terrible beyond belief for a company of its size. I've lost all faith in Mantic's ability to handle even straight forward complaints.
As you might know, I was missing movement trays and counters from my kickstarter pledge, with a handwritten note "to follow" pointing to the missing items on my invoice. Like a good boy, I filled out a ticket, and I emailed Rick Armstrong.
He wrote back on November 19:
The trays literally only came in last Friday so I would expect the remaining items to be shipped shortly.
I'll send a reminder to the warehouse regarding this
Then on December 2nd, he wrote:
we were awaiting the tray stock which have come in and your missing parts have been shipped.
I, of course, never got them, so I emailed and let them know. He responded on January 18:
These recently came in so follow up orders are being sent.
Those reading closely will see that I got three different status on the trays: arrived in November, arrived and shipped in December, and just arrived in January. hmm...
I finally sent this email on February 19: "I'm just checking in to see if there has been any progress finding my counters or movement trays. I see they are still listed as out of stock on the webstore. I'd really like to move on with my life, and so I'm going to order what I need for adepticon from another vendor. As you can imagine, my frustration at waiting over a year since the pledge manager, and six months since they should have arrived is quite high. I feel that mantic in general, and you specifically, have not been upfront with me on the ability to procure these items. I have lost a lot esteem for a company I've been a loyal customer of for since the first plastic elves."
His response on March 2:
Yes it has been a long time but saying I have not been upfront is nonsense. I have supplied you with the information I have had when I have had it.
I will ask the warehouse to ship another package out to you fully tracked.
Please reconfirm a suitable shipping address and contact number so we can be sure they reach you.
So... They've had my money for a year. They clearly failed to order enough product to fulfill wave one pledges. I've been given different stories about when the stock will arrive. They are promising to ship me something that is still noted as pre-order only on their webstore. I've had to buy the same thing from a third party so I could use it at an event.
Yet somehow, when I say I feel they haven't been upfront with me, that's "nonsense"? What branch of customer service training teaches that?
I am a huge fan of Mantic's products and rules. But I was really offended by this, and I think I'm going to pull the plug on my support for them. If they can't scrape together the business acumen to at least pretend to be sorry when caught misrepresenting something, then they deserve to fail.
Polonius, I've had similarly strange conversations with Mantic via messages in Kickstarters. They don't seem to be keeping up with what's going on or have a policy of "tell them what they want to hear" or something.. I don't know. I think they have non-customer service people handling the message channels and they've not invested in actual customer service or a reliable tracking system. There were posts across their previous kickstarters that they've implemented some kind of system to bolster customer service but to me, that's a sign that they don't actually understand that some of the root problems are through their communications and addressing customers as though we are simply money trees. I was on the verge of converting into KoW2 but I think I'll just look at other systems :/
MLaw wrote: I was on the verge of converting into KoW2 but I think I'll just look at other systems :/
Don't be dissuaded from trying the game, it is superb. You can always use models from another manufacturer if you prefer, but I'd highly recommend picking up the Rulebook and Uncharted Empires.
I am sure that Rich gave me the best information he had, when he had it. That's understandable. But at least try to see how that feels from my end, when I'm repeatedly told that my product will ship "soon."
I'm sure he was lied to, and just passed it down. If that's the case, say so. Don't tell me I'm spouting nonsense when I have three emails from the same guy, all promising me prompt delivery of something I still don't have!
Polonius, that is spectacularly poor customer service. I wouldn't let Rich off the hook so easily, though. He told me and at least one other dakkanaut that he would take care of an issue "next week" late last year, only for us to find out he was actually going on vacation "next week" and the week after that, and that Dave didn't seem to know anything about Rich's ongoing service inquiries. He may not be the weakest link in the chain, but he's not exactly a paragon of ethics, either.
Similar situation with me and Rich. I ordered the base pledge (rulebooks, blaine, Ronnie, tokens) and the package I recieved was Blaine with a note saying this completes your order, sorry about the delay. I contacted rich and he promised to look into it. Then he said he would ship once they got the next stock order in. Then he said he had scrounged everything up for me and he would ship it that day. The next day I asked him for a tracking number and he posted in the KS comments section that he was leaving on vacation and that Chris(I think) was taking over while he was out. I recieved a note from the other guy the next day saying he was working on getting my order together to ship. When I contacted him back saying that Rich had promised that he shipped it the replacement guy said that he was still going to ship my pledge and If I got both then we would cross that bridge. I only got the package from Chris (his name on the signature line), which included an extra blaine (since they already sent me one , already given away) and an extra Ronnie figure (also given away). I blasted Rich on the comments section because he was busy calling other people having similar issues "Liars". I feel sorry for those who still have not gotten their items, I hope Blaine isn't the issue as they told me to keep the extra one they sent me. At this point if it is that model I think they need to sculpt an alternate one to send out to the people who are still missing items.
thanks, I've done a lot of work in retail and sales, my wife's family owns a restaurant and she spent two years in the hotel biz... I have pretty high expectations for good customer service. I still try to have pretty realistic expectations for minimal customer service, but this actually offended me, which is actually pretty impressive.
Thanks for letting me know that I'm not just being thin skinned.
At least we have a new Mantic meme!
Mantic: "You're nonsense!"
Maybe Mantic really is the opposite of GW. Instead of fans claiming to like GW while constantly complaining about, Mantic claims to like its customers while insulting them!
thanks, I've done a lot of work in retail and sales, my wife's family owns a restaurant and she spent two years in the hotel biz... I have pretty high expectations for good customer service. I still try to have pretty realistic expectations for minimal customer service, but this actually offended me, which is actually pretty impressive.
Thanks for letting me know that I'm not just being thin skinned.
I worked in a customer service-heavy retail position for years. I can't stand people giving the kind of service that would have gotten me fired.
At least we have a new Mantic meme!
Mantic: "You're nonsense!"
Maybe Mantic really is the opposite of GW. Instead of fans claiming to like GW while constantly complaining about, Mantic claims to like its customers while insulting them!
That's just crazy for a company that holds quarterly crowdsourcing drives.
Maybe if Rich would give us some idea of what's really happening instead of blowing us off we wouldn't have to call him on it. I can deal with waiting if I know there's a good reason for it. Looking at the difference between the KDM and Dreamforge campaigns vs the Prodos and Palladium campaigns, it's clear that clear, respectful communication makes a huge difference in the backer experience.
Yeah, there isn't really any excuse for the last email.
I'm sure it's not been pleasant to be Mantic Customer Service due to the constant KS churn, but maybe they should learn from that and take a break from KS before they start alienating their core customer base.
MLaw wrote: I was on the verge of converting into KoW2 but I think I'll just look at other systems :/
Don't be dissuaded from trying the game, it is superb. You can always use models from another manufacturer if you prefer, but I'd highly recommend picking up the Rulebook and Uncharted Empires.
I second this. I've had great results ordering from their webstore (unfortunately backing a KS seems riskier). The rules are incredible, and the production value of the two rulebooks mentioned for KoW is really high!
Polonius, is that last comment about the meme actually from Rick Armstrong? Someone should definitely forward that on to Ronnie - that's simply inexcusable. You don't mock a customer who has been waiting on product from you for months, and been polite in asking about it. It obviously doesn't help them a a company and I can't believe he would stand for that if he knew about it.
If the last post wasn't a quote from him, then disregard this, of course.
Hold on, I don't see any insult or mockery going on here. Rich was defending his own position where he had responded in good faith with the information he had, and was then accused of not being up front. Maybe customer service culture is different here from the US but I don't see that he made any insult or personal attack, merely commented on a customer's statement that attacked his integrity personally.
Taaloc - That's why I added the caveat, looking above I see the quoted text about a meme is from BobtheInquisitor.
I don't think Polonius was attacking his integrity, though - I think he made a very fair statement that they had been leading him on, continually saying the pieces had arrived and would be sent when they were not. I don't doubt that Rich thought they would be - but clearly the customer service requests were not fulfilled, and some apology would usually be in order.
Stories like these have kept me from doing more than putting in small, simple pledges for Mantic campaigns... but I have had a fantastic experience with the webstore
Taaloc wrote: Hold on, I don't see any insult or mockery going on here. Rich was defending his own position where he had responded in good faith with the information he had, and was then accused of not being up front. Maybe customer service culture is different here from the US but I don't see that he made any insult or personal attack, merely commented on a customer's statement that attacked his integrity personally.
First of all, he did not respond in good faith. He claimed he had shipped it at one point and then later insisted that he would soon ship it. That's an obvious contradiction sure to erode customer confidence. Rich clearly never gave accurate information, or at least not enough accurate information to be meaningful. Responding in good faith would mean giving real information to the customer, unless all the information he had was "we don't know because the warehouse guy is Ronnie's drunkard brother-in-law". All the replies I have received from Rich were vague and completely unhelpful.
Second, customer service reps should never dismiss a complaint from a paying customer so flippantly. Polonius had an issue, Rich was aware of that, and Rich then called Polonius' response to his contradictory statements nonsense, a belittling term that would get a CSR fired here even if the customer didn't have a legitimate grievance, which Polonius had.
Third, the double insistence on tracking information and getting Polonius's contact information could, in the context of "nonsense", be taken as a barbed comment implying that Rich thinks Polonius is untrustworthy.
If a CSR feels that a customer has attacked his integrity, he should kick the ticket upstairs to a supervisor. It is not his job to defend his integrity, and if his coworkers are running his good name through the mud then attacking the customer for drawing the obvious conclusions will not clean it.
I don't see any contradiction. He stated he would arrange for it to be shipped and would send a reminder to the warehouse, was advised it was shipped, and then later on made a blanket statement that further stock had come in and would be sent out. Where is the contradiction apart from that he had been advised by the warehouse it had been sent previously and then updated regarding a later restock? If his information has, as stayed, come from the warehouse, then he has in good faith relayed that.
Taaloc wrote: I don't see any contradiction. He stated he would arrange for it to be shipped and would send a reminder to the warehouse, was advised it was shipped, and then later on made a blanket statement that further stock had come in and would be sent out. Where is the contradiction apart from that he had been advised by the warehouse it had been sent previously and then updated regarding a later restock? If his information has, as stayed, come from the warehouse, then he has in good faith relayed that.
I don't think he actively mislead me, but I was told three times that the items either had shipped, or were going to ship very soon. So while I am an empathetic person that understand that not everything a CSR is told is true, I'm also a paying customer that's been made promises that didn't pan out.
further, when they didn't pan out, I wasn't contacted. It's not like Rich (or anybody) ever sent me a note saying "Hey, I know we promised these, but they're out of stock. We'll let you know as soon as they come in."
Every interaction has been because I've emailed and asked. As a person that's been in a similar situation, I know that my product was likely on manufacturer back order, which means they need to wait for more to be made. Since they were laser cut wood, that's not something that scales very quickly, which means that Mantic, as a low profit wholesale customer, is likely last in the queue behind retail customers. (I'm going to go on a limb and assume that the manufacturer made enough to satisfy the initial order, but that Mantic screwed up and had to order more. If not, than Mantic is just dealing with a lousy manufacturer.)
I'm guessing that Mantic isn't fulfilling my order because they can't. However, I'm told every month when I email that "they'll be here soon" or "they came in on Friday!" Which means I'm stuck waiting.
So, while he may have been in good faith in relaying information, a simple look at the email chain would have indicated that he's been giving me multiple stories, and he had plenty of opportunities to explain what was going on. So yes, I do feel he wasn't being upfront.
Sad to hear of that Polonius, that response from him is just not acceptable.
Just checked the KOW 2 Kickstarters comments, apparently more Blaine's will be available in April (which year is not specified). That is what a backer has ( or claims to have) been told by Mantic. Such a shame that so many people are still missing items from the campaign.
Hey, I'm still missing half of my DBX pledge. So, I feel your pain Polonius. I got multiple emails saying they had shipped my missing stuff, never received anything. They also at one point said it was shipped and delivered to my brother's address, which was of course untrue. Then there's the fact that they sent me a bunch of KOW2 stuff I had never even pledged for with absolutely no explanation of why I received it. I contacted them again just looking for some kind of explanation since they never even addressed the missing goods forms I submitted. That was just thid week that I contacted them. I got a new guy named Zak. He said that the people who had been handling customer service and my previous messages were no longer there. The guy seemed genuinely concerned though about my missing stuff and said he would try to fix things. We'll see, but hopefully maybe Mantic will get its customer service under control?
Taaloc wrote: Hold on, I don't see any insult or mockery going on here. Rich was defending his own position where he had responded in good faith with the information he had, and was then accused of not being up front. Maybe customer service culture is different here from the US but I don't see that he made any insult or personal attack, merely commented on a customer's statement that attacked his integrity personally.
I'm British, and a big fan of mantic, but I too would be pretty annoyed if I got that kind of surly response from a customer service rep. I don't have the full view of the conversations, but to be honest it's irrelevant - you don't accuse your customers of talking nonsense if you want a successful business.
That said - Polonius, I hope you give mantic another go! As others have suggested, don't deny yourself a fantastic game because of a poor customer service rep!
I'm sure the more these issues are brought to the management's attention, the sooner they will have a fit for purpose customer service setup.
I'm still missing my whole DS pledge, but get this....I gave them my details per their request on KS on 11th Feb. Today, 10th Mar, I get a message back asking me to raise a support ticket (presumably on their new system).
So wait, after 2 months I now get to join the back of the queue?!
You know what is awful about all this? All the very valid complaints mean people aren't talking about what an excellent game KoW 2nd Ed is. :-p
I have been having a bear of a time setting up events and helping set up events all around the North-East US, and in part it is because "Mantic: Almost" is still a thing people hear wherever they go. If not for GW gifting Mantic a huge chunk of Fantasy's player-base, I would fear for how the game's community growth would be.
I eagerly look forward to Mantic sorting out more of this bad press, and likewise slowing down and really focusing on building a handful of game communities.
Dreadball was a non-starter here despite my constant efforts, and meanwhile Guild-Ball had no issues growing at a shocking pace. At a glance, I see a game with tons of official play support, neat tournament prize exclusive models, constant play-testing, errata, and communication with players, and all from a company even smaller than Mantic.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: You know what is awful about all this? All the very valid complaints mean people aren't talking about what an excellent game KoW 2nd Ed is. :-p
I have been having a bear of a time setting up events and helping set up events all around the North-East US, and in part it is because "Mantic: Almost" is still a thing people hear wherever they go. If not for GW gifting Mantic a huge chunk of Fantasy's player-base, I would fear for how the game's community growth would be.
I eagerly look forward to Mantic sorting out more of this bad press, and likewise slowing down and really focusing on building a handful of game communities.
Dreadball was a non-starter here despite my constant efforts, and meanwhile Guild-Ball had no issues growing at a shocking pace. At a glance, I see a game with tons of official play support, neat tournament prize exclusive models, constant play-testing, errata, and communication with players, and all from a company even smaller than Mantic.
See though.. that's just it.
It's not just about customer service. I'm not going to set off on a bash-fest.. but they've made decisions to release things, not release things, re-release things, and stop releasing things that have all worked against them. Whether it's models that needed the sculpt QC'd, shipments that needed the contents checked, games that weren't ready for print, games that spent too long getting ready for print, games that went to print but are no longer supported.. When they get it right.. it's pretty good to really good. When they get it wrong, it's cringeworthy. Many of us have been in this hobby for decades. I've seen so many companies come and go that I wish had the opportunities Mantic has been afforded. It's almost criminal (in some instances I'm not convinced it isn't actually).
I think there is a lot of talk about how awesome KoW 2nd edition is! It's certainly got a TON of traction since the end of WHFB, which might be part of why they're snowed under...
Regarding the memes, I really wish people would stop that and be more direct - it would be better for everyone involved!
It's interesting that you mention Guild Ball, NewTruth - in our FLGS Guild Ball and KoW are the two "new games" folks are picking up . Guild Ball certainly has some things nailed down better, but then again they're aiming at quite a different market - more of the Warmachine than the GW crowd.
In my area, Mantic has actually been selling very well and there's apparently enough people playing KOW that there is a league being made. I suspect this is because most of those peopke never backed any of the Kickstarters though. Up until really about December, the only things carried around here was GW. Once the FLGS started carrying Frostgrave at my brother's suggestion, they finally started trying to carry other games. As it turned out, the local community was very receptive to playing other stuff and Mantic proved to be very popular with its reasonably priced models.
RiTides wrote: I think there is a lot of talk about how awesome KoW 2nd edition is! It's certainly got a TON of traction since the end of WHFB, which might be part of why they're snowed under...
Regarding the memes, I really wish people would stop that and be more direct - it would be better for everyone involved!
It's interesting that you mention Guild Ball, NewTruth - in our FLGS Guild Ball and KoW are the two "new games" folks are picking up . Guild Ball certainly has some things nailed down better, but then again they're aiming at quite a different market - more of the Warmachine than the GW crowd.
Oh don't get me wrong, KoW is doing well, and deservedly so, but I know myself and a few other groups are hustling to turn this into something enduring. The game is terrific, and people who play it, tend to love it and keep playing it.
I only mention Guild Ball as a counter-point to things I similarly loved like Dreadball, that SHOULD have endured, and was good enough to stick... but instead was a still-birth.
Half the products, and twice the support would do wonders for Mantic, but I think they might've grown (in their minds) too big, too quickly, thanks to early-days Kickstarter, and are too removed from the grind of picking a couple core products, and supporting the hell out of it until you've built your name around it.
Listen... I HATE to say this, but I had a few club members scoff at me... literally laugh when I asked if we would be supporting The Walking Dead. Its just assumed by far too many folks that it will be unsupported or half-baked... and that assumption, while awful, and not necessarily fair, is now kind of based on precedent,
I think saying it's based on precedent precludes you from being able to say it's unfair. Look, they've pulled the plug on what.. two games now? MA and DB? Whatever happened to Dwarven King's Hold or Pandora? Hm..
That said - Polonius, I hope you give mantic another go! As others have suggested, don't deny yourself a fantastic game because of a poor customer service rep!
I'm sure the more these issues are brought to the management's attention, the sooner they will have a fit for purpose customer service setup.
Oh, I'm all in on kings of war! Feel free to check out my ogre painting blog
I think I'll pass on buying products directly, and certainly no more Kickstarters.
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MLaw wrote: I think saying it's based on precedent precludes you from being able to say it's unfair. Look, they've pulled the plug on what.. two games now? MA and DB? Whatever happened to Dwarven King's Hold or Pandora? Hm..
To be fair, dreadball is, if anything, too complete. There's a shocking amount of content for that game. Pandora and Dwarf Kings Hold were self contained board games. I actually like project Pandora: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/446607.page
Yeah, I knew them releasing THAT many teams for the KS was not leaving them much design space. So far, it's looked like their decision when they HAVE run out of design space is to can the project. For me.. it makes their philosophy feel very money-grabby. Especially since the work most people seem pleased with is being done by unpaid staffers.
Regarding the memes, I really wish people would stop that and be more direct - it would be better for everyone involved!
If this is aimed at me, please explain what you mean by direct. I submitted tickets and never heard back. I sent messages through KS. I have emailed Rich numerous times, as well as Dave and Chris and Sarah. I've posted on their facebook page. By the time it comes up on Dakka, I've spent so much time and energy trying to sort this out already that the snark just leaks out somehow. Posting here might, just might, get someone to move on my ticket or at least spill the beans about what the real hold up is. (Matt Gilbert has been responsive, but does not seem to be at the center of things.) Posting here also warns future Mantic customers of what they might have to deal with and gives them a clearer idea of what to expect from the next kickstarter. From my perspective, it would be better for new customers to be warned and for current customers to pool their knowledge in order to comprehend the unpleasant situations many of us are in. Memes are just an expression of shared frustration and allow us to vent through bitter laughter what we might otherwise spew in anger.
Taaloc wrote: Hold on, I don't see any insult or mockery going on here. Rich was defending his own position where he had responded in good faith with the information he had, and was then accused of not being up front. Maybe customer service culture is different here from the US but I don't see that he made any insult or personal attack, merely commented on a customer's statement that attacked his integrity personally.
You need to read the Kickstarter comments section then. He was calling people liars and insinuating that there was a large number of false missing item claims all the way up to when Mantic realized that they "didn't lose" 200 backer orders due to a problem with their computer system. At that point he got quiet, no apologies, just quiet.
MLaw wrote: Yeah, I knew them releasing THAT many teams for the KS was not leaving them much design space. So far, it's looked like their decision when they HAVE run out of design space is to can the project. For me.. it makes their philosophy feel very money-grabby. Especially since the work most people seem pleased with is being done by unpaid staffers.
I really like the diversity of the Dreadball range. Mantic has put out a ton of interesting aliens and humans under Dreadball/X. I'm even excited about playing the game...someday...because it looks fun and has great flavor. A conversion kit or rulebook to use the mini teams as superheroes or sci fi pirates or something would breathe some life back into the the DB/X line's sales.
It's not like Mantic has to pay anyone to write the rules.
Bob - I'm all for posting shared experiences and learning from it! What I don't like is making fun of companies relentlessly - it really makes it hard for them to change perspectives even when they do improve on things, and it makes threads about them less fun for me to read as a fan. Finally, it disincentives direct company interaction on the forum... we've chased off a fair few company representatives (of all stripes ) on Dakka.
Note that I'm not saying we shouldn't share bad experiences, just that doing so straightforwardly and genuinely is a lot more effective than posting "Mantic - Almost" or "Mantic - Nonsense" or the like.
I've certainly had, and posted, some rough experiences with Mantic - the Dreadball team I pledged for and was unhappy with was most notable. But there have been some really good experiences, too - the wrecked car scenery I pledged for for a friend from Mars Attacks (really great quality!), the lesser obsidian golems I got a bucketload of, and now the literally awesome rulebooks for KoW2 - I own each in several forms now
I don't want anyone not to post a bad experience, but I think relentlessly "joking" just isn't that funny, and in some ways counterproductive - it makes a lot of the posts here more "noise" than substance, and easier for the company (and even neutral readers / posters) to ignore.
Compel wrote: Not heard anything about missing gamers editions.
But you are 100% certainly NOT going to get your missing Blaine on dionsaur. For whatever crazy reason, Mantic are unable to fufill that for people who they missed out the first time round. However, you should get that personally confirmed from mantic first.
What will then (probably) happen is that mantic will ask you if you would prefer a substitute similarly sized miniature, and what one.
Personally, if I was affected by this mistake (fortunately, I wasn't, but a couple of my mates were), I would have found it to be as big a farce as the Adventurers Companion screw up.
This is false. New shipment of Blaine is in, and it's being dealt with. Mine is coming shortly. Can we stop with the incorrect assumptions? Shortly after Matt got involved with my missing pledge, it was taken care of. I trust him.
And by "taken care of", I mean I have it in hand. Minus Uncharted Empires and Blaine which are coming together shortly. I've received all of the rest. So yes. I have faith in Matt.
Yeah, this has been a full page of whining I didn't need to read. One post would have been enough, but on and on and in multiple threads? There's ''warning'' people about Mantic's QC and then there's disrupting threads with a personal beef.
Compel wrote: Not heard anything about missing gamers editions.
But you are 100% certainly NOT going to get your missing Blaine on dionsaur. For whatever crazy reason, Mantic are unable to fufill that for people who they missed out the first time round. However, you should get that personally confirmed from mantic first.
What will then (probably) happen is that mantic will ask you if you would prefer a substitute similarly sized miniature, and what one.
Personally, if I was affected by this mistake (fortunately, I wasn't, but a couple of my mates were), I would have found it to be as big a farce as the Adventurers Companion screw up.
This is false. New shipment of Blaine is in, and it's being dealt with. Mine is coming shortly. Can we stop with the incorrect assumptions? Shortly after Matt got involved with my missing pledge, it was taken care of. I trust him.
And by "taken care of", I mean I have it in hand. Minus Uncharted Empires and Blaine which are coming together shortly. I've received all of the rest. So yes. I have faith in Matt.
It's not "false" if it's what my mates and I have personally experienced (please note that, 'you should get that personally confirmed from mantic first' bit).
Well, that's good news, it seems in the month or so since they told my mates they were unable to replace their Blaines they've changed track. - If that's true, of course. (I'll put myself under, "I'll believe it when I see it, myself.") I imagine my mates are going to end up being rather peeved to find out that they've been short changed on the Blaine.
ArtIsGreat wrote: Yeah, this has been a full page of whining I didn't need to read. One post would have been enough, but on and on and in multiple threads? There's ''warning'' people about Mantic's QC and then there's disrupting threads with a personal beef.
Well, I was resigned to checking in now and then to see if there had been any improvement, but now I know mentioning Mantics constant screw ups offends you so...
I gave up on getting the rest of my Kickstarter stuff, it reached the stage where it just wasn't worth the trouble. Mantic customer service is awful. Their quality assurance is terrible. If you sculpted both into miniatures with horribly stubby legs, I'm sure the Mantic fans would love it.
Compel wrote: Not heard anything about missing gamers editions.
But you are 100% certainly NOT going to get your missing Blaine on dionsaur. For whatever crazy reason, Mantic are unable to fufill that for people who they missed out the first time round. However, you should get that personally confirmed from mantic first.
What will then (probably) happen is that mantic will ask you if you would prefer a substitute similarly sized miniature, and what one.
Personally, if I was affected by this mistake (fortunately, I wasn't, but a couple of my mates were), I would have found it to be as big a farce as the Adventurers Companion screw up.
This is false. New shipment of Blaine is in, and it's being dealt with. Mine is coming shortly. Can we stop with the incorrect assumptions? Shortly after Matt got involved with my missing pledge, it was taken care of. I trust him.
And by "taken care of", I mean I have it in hand. Minus Uncharted Empires and Blaine which are coming together shortly. I've received all of the rest. So yes. I have faith in Matt.
It's not "false" if it's what my mates and I have personally experienced (please note that, 'you should get that personally confirmed from mantic first' bit).
Well, that's good news, it seems in the month or so since they told my mates they were unable to replace their Blaines they've changed track. - If that's true, of course. (I'll put myself under, "I'll believe it when I see it, myself.") I imagine my mates are going to end up being rather peeved to find out that they've been short changed on the Blaine.
One of the first things Matt did was find an alternative supplier for Blaine, so I'm pretty sure it's a case of "was true but supply issue now resolved".
So will KoW2 customers be getting their Blaine minis now? I find it unacceptable that they would not get something! I nearly pledged to get that mini, glad I didn't now.
My experiences with Mantic have not been as bad as some here at all - I had a minor problem with my DS pledge (along with the usual Adventurer's Companion issues) which was solved in the timeframe they said it would be. But I still read what others have gone through and it makes me pretty certain I'll only back for a product like DS which is exactly what I am looking for. (For the record, I'm really happy with DS, which I know not everyone was.)
The issue with Blaine also shows how Mantic are poor with communication. Over two pages here we have heard:
1. No more Blaine's. Ever.
2. Blaine's in hand and ready to be sent out (from Time to waste).
3. Blaine's due in April ( from me from KS comments as apparently told to a backer by Mantic).
Have Mantic addressed the issue officially in an update? The could nip the drama in the bud with a simple update to their backers be it yay, neigh or May. As it is speculation and hearsay just throws more fuel on the fire.
KOW is a great rule set, initially from Alessio and then further tempered by the Rules Committee ( for the love of the game) I just wish the level of CS allowed us to focus on that.
Ok, went back and re-read my email; I was told 3 days ago they just came in. And from Prodos. Should be along shortly, once their restock of UE comes in. I've told them to send all at once, not to do multiple different shipments for their own costs.
Mine should be shortly; I can't speak for everyone else on timeframe.
I hope they're doing the same thing with Dungeon Saga, rather than telling people "no can do" to the resins they ordered as suggested by one of the Kickstarter updates.
I'm still waiting on resin missing items so fingers crossed there!
Not surprised Warpath switched to metals for the KS exclusives, they can at least do that in-house.
Hopefully no more Kickstarter for the rest of the year, with any luck their financials are getting back to the point where they can just roll out a hard plastic kit every month or so, they need to move back to that model to get retail stores on board, the regular releases for KoW are a good start, getting loads of stuff out there for their most popular game is definitely the way to go.
RiTides wrote: Bob - I'm all for posting shared experiences and learning from it! What I don't like is making fun of companies relentlessly - it really makes it hard for them to change perspectives even when they do improve on things, and it makes threads about them less fun for me to read as a fan. Finally, it disincentives direct company interaction on the forum... we've chased off a fair few company representatives (of all stripes ) on Dakka.
Note that I'm not saying we shouldn't share bad experiences, just that doing so straightforwardly and genuinely is a lot more effective than posting "Mantic - Almost" or "Mantic - Nonsense" or the like.
I've certainly had, and posted, some rough experiences with Mantic - the Dreadball team I pledged for and was unhappy with was most notable. But there have been some really good experiences, too - the wrecked car scenery I pledged for for a friend from Mars Attacks (really great quality!), the lesser obsidian golems I got a bucketload of, and now the literally awesome rulebooks for KoW2 - I own each in several forms now
I don't want anyone not to post a bad experience, but I think relentlessly "joking" just isn't that funny, and in some ways counterproductive - it makes a lot of the posts here more "noise" than substance, and easier for the company (and even neutral readers / posters) to ignore.
That's my case, at least - hope it makes sense
Unless you're speaking with the Mod Hat on, I'm quite happy to continue to post snarky jokes about Mantic until they fix all of their feth ups (still waiting for a good chunk of my DS here, which is tiny compared to what people like Bob and Polonius are waiting for). Now I can turn that into snarky jokes, which is a bit more pleasant than calling them a bunch of incompetent witches that couldn't organise a root in a brothel and seem to lose all interest in helping their customers once they have our money from the latest Kickstarter campaign while relying on volunteer labour to proofread and provide well rounded rules. That might be "noise" but it's noise that they've created themselves.
We know Matt is a good guy, but Rich has been almost completely fething useless (he was helpful for a while, then seemingly disappeared), and I've had to contact Ronnie directly more than once to get my KoW2 gak sorted out. I've received nothing from the new support ticket system created by the new ex-GW CSR manager guy who was supposed to be hot gak, aside from three emails that appear to be form emails. What is it now? Oh yeah, March.
Now, I like KoW a lot, and maybe I'd get around to playing DS if they got me the last of my pledge, but I think if they stopped to breathe and fix the problems, there'd be a hell of a lot less people joking about their incompetence and bad feelings. Once I sort out my Warpath pledge manager, I'm done and dusted with their Kickstarters. Well, I will be once it all arrives (if I don't just cancel it and get a refund minus KS fees.) I'd like to be a fan of theirs, but I've been burnt too many times. There's no trust left, so I can joke about it until my direct relationship with them comes to it's natural conclusion (when I finally get the last of my stuff sent to me) or get really angry and aggressive.
It's costing them money as well. I'm in no way willing to consider putting money down on any of their new campaigns. I know the TWD models attracted a bit of criticism, but I quite liked them. Did/Do I trust Mantic to deliver with any competency? Hell no. So I didn't even consider pledging. While they made a nice $600k or whatever it was in the end, it might well have done a lot better if the value had been there and they hadn't burned a lot of their "regular" backers.
I let just a little bit of my anger and frustration leak out in that post. Probably better to keep it as a bit of snark, posted occasionally eh?
Azazelx wrote: We know Matt is a good guy, but Rich has been almost completely fething useless (he was helpful for a while, then seemingly disappeared), and I've had to contact Ronnie directly more than once to get my KoW2 gak sorted out. I've received nothing from the new support ticket system created by the new ex-GW CSR manager guy who was supposed to be hot gak, aside from three emails that appear to be form emails. What is it now? Oh yeah, March.
It really isn't down to failings on Zak's, it's mostly how totally fetched up the original delivery was. It would take a lot to make me back a KS now.
Da Boss wrote: Mantic need a KS break. It's the only way they're going to sort their company out.
I doubt that will happen though. They seem to be a "KS Company" now.
Thinking about it, I think mostly they always were one.
Today the question is, can they survive without a KS? and when will they alienate even the most hardcore fans with their unprofessional ways?
Shocked to read this thread only to learn on how low they are taking Mantic name.
Never been a KS fan, I prefer a company that produces the traditional way before taking my money, rather than smoke, mirrors and promises.
I fear the KS is going to be be the end for mantic, not because of it but because of the mantic's inability to deliver and interact with their customers.
Well if everyone who is late getting their stuff from Mantics other KS shot a message to KS when the next one hits, maybe KS will intervene. I think that's the only way to get Mantics attention now.
Azazelx wrote: I let just a little bit of my anger and frustration leak out in that post. Probably better to keep it as a bit of snark, posted occasionally eh?
I disagree, and hopefully I can explain why clearly below:
Sometimes, places like first-party forums or Kickstarter comments become too much like a "fanboy" echo chamber to be helpful. But there has been a trend the last few years on Dakka for certain threads to become the opposite - echo chambers of memes and "hater" comments, such that the "fanboys" don't dare post anything.
The outcome is in threads like that, we only get one side/perspective dominating, and it's just as bad (but in the opposite sense) as official forums. There is some value in this - a place where people can be honest and point out flaws without reprisal from the company under discussion. But taken too far, it loses that usefulness and becomes just a cycle of jabs/jokes.
A good example of this is the Raging Heroes KS1 thread. If you only read Dakka, you'd think everyone hated them. Yet they launched a second campaign which was similarly successful to the first! The thread on Dakka had become a place of a single perspective (joking at the company's expense) and those with alternative views were driven off. So again, I totally think that people should post legitimate complaints, grievances, feedback, etc. But ideally, doing so in a way that encourages interaction rather than relentlessly making fun of a company/product, and thus eventually driving off those with opposing views.
I hope this makes sense - I'd love for us to be known as a place where a fair discussion can take place, rather than a place where one view dominates / drowns out the others (whether for or against a company). Cheers
Azazelx wrote: We know Matt is a good guy, but Rich has been almost completely fething useless (he was helpful for a while, then seemingly disappeared), and I've had to contact Ronnie directly more than once to get my KoW2 gak sorted out. I've received nothing from the new support ticket system created by the new ex-GW CSR manager guy who was supposed to be hot gak, aside from three emails that appear to be form emails. What is it now? Oh yeah, March.
It really isn't down to failings on Zak's, it's mostly how totally fetched up the original delivery was. It would take a lot to make me back a KS now.
The original delivery is definitely the source of mantic's problems and it's surprising how lon it's been going on. Think of how many KS backers end up filing a ticket for missing or damaged items and how many hours of labor are spent processing those tickets, assembling corrective shipments, paying for the replacement products and paying for shipping them. All that has to be costing mantic a fortune.
Azazelx wrote: I let just a little bit of my anger and frustration leak out in that post. Probably better to keep it as a bit of snark, posted occasionally eh?
I disagree, and hopefully I can explain why clearly below:
Sometimes, places like first-party forums or Kickstarter comments become too much like a "fanboy" echo chamber to be helpful. But there has been a trend the last few years on Dakka for certain threads to become the opposite - echo chambers of memes and "hater" comments, such that the "fanboys" don't dare post anything.
The outcome is in threads like that, we only get one side/perspective dominating, and it's just as bad (but in the opposite sense) as official forums. There is some value in this - a place where people can be honest and point out flaws without reprisal from the company under discussion. But taken too far, it loses that usefulness and becomes just a cycle of jabs/jokes.
A good example of this is the Raging Heroes KS1 thread. If you only read Dakka, you'd think everyone hated them. Yet they launched a second campaign which was similarly successful to the first! The thread on Dakka had become a place of a single perspective (joking at the company's expense) and those with alternative views were driven off. So again, I totally think that people should post legitimate complaints, grievances, feedback, etc. But ideally, doing so in a way that encourages interaction rather than relentlessly making fun of a company/product, and thus eventually driving off those with opposing views.
I hope this makes sense - I'd love for us to be known as a place where a fair discussion can take place, rather than a place where one view dominates / drowns out the others (whether for or against a company). Cheers
I will save this and quote it in every AoS thread ever (although to be fair, those have calmed down lately)
Dakka Dakka IS a place where 'fair' discussion can and does take place - and...fortunately (though I'm sure it will be 'unfortunately' for some) this means that dissenting views will almost always be allowed to be aired.
I think RiTides is more concerned about posts becoming ONLY being snarky swipes with little to no other content, but as long as any post follows the rules of the site, it will certainly be allowed.
I think the Mantic threads tend to be pretty fair these days. I love some of what they do but CS is a big area they need to focus on. They seem to know that, but honestly I reckon working in Mantic must be a constant state of "crunch" due to always having a KS on the boil. Can't be pleasant!
Alpharius wrote: Dakka Dakka IS a place where 'fair' discussion can and does take place - and...fortunately (though I'm sure it will be 'unfortunately' for some) this means that dissenting views will almost always be allowed to be aired.
I think RiTides is more concerned about posts becoming ONLY being snarky swipes with little to no other content, but as long as any post follows the rules of the site, it will certainly be allowed.
And as RiTides said, there are examples of that, such as the RH thread, and I would certainly add the first several months of AoS, although as I said it's much (MUCH) better now. Still a great post that I will be sure to save for the future when my words fail me!
scarletsquig wrote: Lots of new KoW minis, they'll also be releasing Silverbreeze Cavalry for the Elves and a Steel Behemoth for the Dwarfs shortly afterwards.
A mixed bag. Love the Werewolf and the Chaos Dwarf, don't like the Troll at all, and the Wights fall somewhere in the middle.
Alpharius wrote: I think RiTides is more concerned about posts becoming ONLY being snarky swipes with little to no other content, but as long as any post follows the rules of the site, it will certainly be allowed.
Alpharius is totally right on this - and it's why a lot of posts Are allowed even if they're heavy on "snark". But let's face it - forums are a bit of a dying breed, and while Dakka is still going very strong, you never want it to be an environment such that people think "Man this sucks, I'd just rather go post about this on Facebook" or the like. Age of Sigmar, as Mymearan points out, is one of the main things I've been thinking about in this regard... I'll be honest, it's not for me. But it IS for some people... and those people are having to wade through a lot of "Age of Suckmar" or whatever other silliness to talk about it. There are some things we might be able to do to help with this structurally - but having our regular posters be a bit more thoughtful in their criticisms would also help the situation a whole lot!
To bring this back onto the topic of Mantic - I've only started paying serious attention to them recently, as a direct result of AoS. I jumped to KoW and really, really love the ruleset so far... and despite a crazy schedule have been putting in some hobby time on my Abyssal Dwarfs. Now that hobby time doesn't actually include painting them but I queued someone up to do that for me last summer, and my bases are finally arriving tomorrow and the whole shabang is going in the mail the next day!
Previously, nothing Mantic did was enough to really catch my attention - only the occasional small purchase here or there. However, they've nailed it with this ruleset enough that they have my attention, and a whole lot of others. I absolutely recognize that they need to fix both their customer service and fulfillment issues. But let's be honest, for us regular posters, we knew about those going in - it's part of the reason why I wait to buy things from their store via Paypal, it would be so easy for me to get refunded if something wasn't delivered. I did the same with Mierce Miniatures for a long time as a precaution, based on what we saw with Maelstrom Games. Some companies you know will be riskier to back than others, and although I love KoW, Mantic is definitely at the top of that list if you're expecting the product to be a match to the art.
So... I think they deserve criticism and an informed eye, but at the same time, they're doing some things insanely well (their KoW 2nd ed ruleset, and the Uncharted Empires expansion they put out right after). I think it's a more useful discussion when both sides are able to be "heard" so to speak, and a lot of times the "dissenting" view on Dakka is the positive one! All that to say... I'd love to see the criticism of companies like Mantic, or even Raging Heroes (Dakka's favorite punching bag for a long time) not go "below the belt" but stick to the real facts of what they need to work and improve on. I think this is the most effective way to get through to them, whereas it's easy for them to write off memes as "internet noise" or the like.
Hope that makes sense, and sorry for the segway . Perhaps we can take it to Dakka Discussions if anyone wants to talk about things in more detail, or I'd love to do it via PM, as well!
One could say I guess, it depends on the thread. - In a general discussion thead, one could expect general discussions, which may include displeased people. - In a news thread, people might share and discuss bad news.
But then someone could go and say, start a discussion about which is a persons preferred tournament system for Age of Sigmar, they're probably wanting to discuss that rather than go over 'Age of Suckmar' again and again.
And, I'm sure the dakka mods are great at ensuring that those discussions get to happen.
Though, a part of me is still a bit grumpy about being accused of being part of the 'anti American brigade....'
RI Tides, I feel like you miss a bit n your perception. You notice the negativity and snark when that is what is prevalent, but seem to miss the many pages of mostly positive rules discussions. When Mantic gets it right, we post about it while it is still news and then bring it up when it is relevant. KoW receives nearly unanimous praise for its rule set, as does Mars Attacks and Dreadball. When discussing minis, many of us love the old plastics, most of the new plastics, the Mars Attacks plastics and most of the DBX plastics. If it seems like we keep harping on "leg day" minis, that's only because Mantic keep releasing minis that conform to that style, keeping it in the news.
Personally, I would love to post gushing rants about their KoW2 plastics. The designs look great and I have heard good things about the quality. However, I haven't received them yet, so I can't. It's news in that the problem still exists, expanding in significance due to the ever increasing lag and scale, which will have obvious knock on effects for other aspects of Mantic's business.
As for snark, the RH thread might have had a lot of lol meme posts, but it could have been far worse, like the Robotech thread, AVP thread or Sedition Wars. Those threads had less snark and more genuine anger, which stifled conversation much more than in any Mantic thread.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: As for snark, the RH thread might have had a lot of lol meme posts, but it could have been far worse, like the Robotech thread, AVP thread or Sedition Wars. Those threads had less snark and more genuine anger, which stifled conversation much more than in any Mantic thread.
That's certainly a fair point, Bob, although those are probably the top 3 worst threads listed there so hard to top! It was more a candid post about what I'd like to see more of.
To use an example from another part of Dakka, there was a lot of jokes / snark / etc being made about the ITC tournament ruleset / format / FAQ. While the negative feedback did serve a purpose, it ended up being a lot more effective to present it as a direct request for change (in my case, the Ghostkeel ruling was what I submitted, as I'm sure others did, too). All the other stuff kind of got lost in the noise and didn't have an effect on the ITC crew one way or the other - some of the most "made fun of" rulings didn't get on the ballot, because the feedback wasn't presented in a way that the ITC crew could easily take onboard.
There's certainly a place for discussing amongst ourselves, rather than expecting it to have any direct impact on the company / product, but I still think directness is a lot more helpful, and a lot more likely to be taken onboard, than things like the "leg day" comments. Some companies will refuse to change, but others will actually take the feedback from their fans... and I think Mantic falls into the latter group, at least sometimes.
Anyway, I appreciate the discussion and maybe I'll make a separate Dakka Discussions thread for it so we don't get too far afield here. If you'd like to discuss it further please feel free to PM me, I would love to (although be warned, I can write pages on this stuff ). Cheers!
I like them but since they are metal I'm not to excited. Especially because I'd be inclined to swap the top of the body out for something else. I really like the horse part though.
Renders of the previews of the designs for the concepts of the previews of the studio miniatures that are supposed to be cast in metal only to be cast in restic with tiny hooves and really long torsos?
I think if they're produced exactly like what we see in the renders they'll be fantastic. Until I see them cast that way though, I will anticipate a quiver on their back to be horribly miscast or some other really odd problem that causes them to just miss the mark. I know that's cynical and snarky but I also find it hard to believe that some of the best looking centaurs out there are about to be produced by Mantic. They produce a lot of miniatures and I don't know that I've ever felt like their version of anything has been the best version of that "whatever" on the market..
When I first saw the renders I got really exited that we were getting plastic multi pose centaurs.
If the metals come out looking like the renders I'll buy a set, in plastic I would of got a couple of units. I hate to say it but as usual, Mantic - Almost.
Wow, I really like those Centaurs. I haven't been all that interested in the Nature army, but seeing those is tempting. Huh... Centaurs are CS1, TC1, 3+ Me, and Nimble. Even with Def 4+, they have Ne 11/3 and run only 100pts. You know, between them, the elementals, Druids, all the vanguard, and pathfinder on everything... they could be an interesting army.
And Mantic's recent string of metals has been really good. The Ogre Berzerkers and Hunters are top rate, and the Silverbreeze were very nice if boring.
The poses seem a bit stiff, but that might just be the lack of paint... eyes can really make models look more alive if done right. These are definitely worth keeping an eye on though.
Tyr13 wrote: The poses seem a bit stiff, but that might just be the lack of paint... eyes can really make models look more alive if done right. These are definitely worth keeping an eye on though.
The fact that the renders are straight on isn't doing them any favors. The torsos lack inspiring trunk twist for a sense of action but I think the horse bodies have a good range of poses. I'd really like to see these in a 3/4 shot to get a better sense of the proportions and lines of the models.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Looking at those harness 'belts' they've got I'd say they're almost certainly intended to be 2 piece, horse body and human torso
so twist away
It's not so much about physically turning the torso bit.. you get more action from the figure if the twist in the abdominal section and shoulder girdle creates fluid and dynamic lines of action. It's one of the reasons a lot of multipart kits feel rigid and boring even if they are "posed" dynamically. The underlying anatomy wasn't designed to be in motion. For most people it's a non-issue but if I get any of those I'll probably be re-sculpting the abdominal column and obliques.
I'd have been interested if they were plastic. Looks like the arms are going to be separate and I've had more than enough of pinning metal arms to last a lifetime.
skarsol wrote: I'd have been interested if they were plastic. Looks like the arms are going to be separate and I've had more than enough of pinning metal arms to last a lifetime.
For what it's worth, I didn't have to pin the arms on the metal Ogre Berzerkers.
Those arms are pretty spindly though. So a pretty small point of contact. Unless youre going for a twhohanded weapon, I dont htink youll be able to get away with not pinning them. :/
One of the reasons I always suggest cervitaurs (deer-centaurs) instead of centaurs is because making the human part a bit too big is necessary. You can't stick an ordinary-sized human torso to the front of an ordinary-sized horse body without it looking weird, so you have to either make the human part bigger, the horse part smaller, or use something smaller than a horse for the back part.
I like the centaurs, those clubs look really deadly. The belt makes me wonder if the human and horse parts are one piece. I don't know much about casting but wouldn't the horse need to be separate? The arm joints look to be the armlets..
TheAuldGrump wrote: As for the human/horse proportions... there are such things as ponies....
Ponies are smaller than horses in the wrong way - you want a slimmer torso (so it blends better into the slim human torso), not shorter legs.
Very much depends on the pony - some have narrower torsos as well as shorter legs (Welsh and Connemara for example), while other have only shorter legs (Shetlands, as an example).
I think that you are mostly thinking about Shetlands.
Pony covers a wide stretch of breeds, some are bred for racing, others for jumping, yet others as hunters... and some... just happen.
I love Shetlands, but they were not a planned breed.
The Auld Grump - which is part of why Shetlands are also smarter than many breed of pony.... Or horses for that matter. (Mules, on the other hand, are smart and ornery....)
What are mantic's recent metals like in terms of assembly? Do they go for more of a monopole shaped socket approach or just flat surface on flat surface?
They look a little stiff but overall great for rank and file cavalry. A bunch of fiddly detail would get lost in the mass of a 10-man unit, let alone an army. Dynamic torso twists would look nice, but it would be tricky to do that and still have them rank up well. I'd rather see Mantic do this than try for a dynamic pose and screw it up. The thing I love most, however, is the inclusion of both male and female models with their own distinct (torso) sculpts. So often we get uni-gender armies (though TBF all-male does make sense for a lot of context), or we get GW's hybrid models where they don't pull off either gender well.
Micky wrote: What are mantic's recent metals like in terms of assembly? Do they go for more of a monopole shaped socket approach or just flat surface on flat surface?
Zombie trolls have flat to flat where the arms are connected. Wights seems to be flat surfaces too, though more monoposed.
Quick tip.. if you have flat to flat metal.. score both sides with a hobby knife in a hatched pattern so the surface looks like a screen. You can also rough it with files. It gives the surfaces something to adhere to and the abrasions and grooves extend the surface area so the bond is not just along one planar surface. This is also exceptionally helpful if you're assembling plastic to metal kits.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled program..
I actually quite like the centaurs, even if they have horns, but the metal puts me off. 30$ or so for 5 pretty nice centaurs is pretty decent compared to most lines, but it is still more than I want to pay if I want 30 of them or more. And I really do want a high number of centaurs in an army.
I have not really payed much attention to KOW, but flicking through the uncharted empires book in my FLGS I came across the new Neritica faction. So now I am going to grab a demo game. When are the plastic trident realms model coming out? Also are the basic troops the only thing that got unlocked for them on the recent kickstarter.
The naiads are definitely some time this year, Id guess well see them in summer, maybe even earlier... hard to say though. Im also not aware of any other trident realms models coming out, though we might still be surprised... wouldnt hold my breath though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, never mind. Theyre released next month, just checked the blog.
RoninXiC wrote: Not bad, not bad. I actually cannot find any kind of flaw in these. MAAAAYBE the human part is a bit too big.
My question is why does a centaur's human portion end after the stomach? Both the human and horse digestive areas are neccessary? does that mean it #2's into its second stomach.? if they were saytr they'd be great.
one of those questions that make you wonder; like how does a beholder eat if it has no stomach, is its digestive system simi-pocketed away in a small dimensional dimi-space.?
The human tract digests meat while the horse tract digests the dozens of pounds of grass the centaurs need to eat every day to obtain enough calories to survive. That's why you see them constantly cropping the grass or eating baby seals rich in blubber.
Tyr13 wrote: The naiads are definitely some time this year, Id guess well see them in summer, maybe even earlier... hard to say though. Im also not aware of any other trident realms models coming out, though we might still be surprised... wouldnt hold my breath though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, never mind. Theyre released next month, just checked the blog.
Yeah, one kind of unconventional thing about Kings of War is that they are making army lists without any apparent intent to make models for them. The Ratkin list, for example, appears to be there just for Skaven figures and there have been no Mantic Ratkin figures announced at all.
Well, they *did* design them primarily for WHF refugees. Or at least, thats what they set out to do, and then it evolved from there. Though they are planning to release miniatures at some point in the future.
I'm pretty certain that the Uncharted Empires armies (not including the trident realms and Nightstalkers) were 'just' for people to plug their existing armies into and there were no plans for Mantic model ranges
I do think some of the lists in Uncharted Empires though were for things Mantic had ideas on (The nightcrawler ones specifically) but hadn't fully fleshed out design wise.
Mantic pops a couple decent kits out with each K-starter. <---Totally on topic post
Spoiler:
BobtheInquisitor wrote: The human tract digests meat while the horse tract digests the dozens of pounds of grass the centaurs need to eat every day to obtain enough calories to survive. That's why you see them constantly cropping the grass or eating baby seals rich in blubber.
Not arguing, I see what you're saying. It makes sense, but still it doesn't at the same time.
The practical nature of the explaination somewhat defeated itself. If a Centaur(styled as a saytr) had to eat grass, it would have to bend down and sit or reach the ground. Grasping grass, shoving it into its mouth, all day. While, I'd put that as a survival behavior rather than everyday needs meeting. B/c Satyr are mischievous to hostile(as are centaur), getting their calories from booze and leafy greens and vegtables b/c they're not truly stupid. Plus, their mouth isn't a horses' mouth.
However, they could eat regular babies if need be. As a Monsterous, simi-humanoid raider that's good eat'n
Yeah, they might expand their miniatures line to include more Uncharted Empires stuff at some point. As it stands right now though, the only Uncharted Empires stuff that's getting models is stuff that's shared by a core army list (such as the Naiads and Salamanders being in the Nature list). Given that most of the core lists still have some entries with no official models, I wouldn't hold my breath on the Uncharted Empires stuff.
I think its safe to say that Neritica and Night Stalkers will both *eventually* get official models, because those are original armies and not designed for refugees from warhams.
But... except for stuff included in Forces of Nature, don't hold your breath about them coming any time soon.
Micky wrote: I think its safe to say that Neritica and Night Stalkers will both *eventually* get official models, because those are original armies and not designed for refugees from warhams.
But... except for stuff included in Forces of Nature, don't hold your breath about them coming any time soon.
That seems like a squandered opportunity to me. KoW is a great game gaining popularity. I think it's safe to say Uncharted Empires sold well and so the Neritica and Nightstalker lists are getting plenty of exposure and those are the armies that would best served by original Mantic models. The longer Mantic waits to produce a more complete model range it allows other manufacturers to fill the void and probably discourages some people from playing the lists.
Micky wrote: I think its safe to say that Neritica and Night Stalkers will both *eventually* get official models, because those are original armies and not designed for refugees from warhams.
But... except for stuff included in Forces of Nature, don't hold your breath about them coming any time soon.
That seems like a squandered opportunity to me. KoW is a great game gaining popularity. I think it's safe to say Uncharted Empires sold well and so the Neritica and Nightstalker lists are getting plenty of exposure and those are the armies that would best served by original Mantic models. The longer Mantic waits to produce a more complete model range it allows other manufacturers to fill the void and probably discourages some people from playing the lists.
Well the lists in the core book have existed for 4-5 years and a lot of them are missing a bunch of models too.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I thought there had actually been semi- official talk of having the Nightstalker army kickstarted at some future point.
Or perhaps it was just wishful thinking, but I honestly thought it was something discussed.
Micky wrote: I think its safe to say that Neritica and Night Stalkers will both *eventually* get official models, because those are original armies and not designed for refugees from warhams.
But... except for stuff included in Forces of Nature, don't hold your breath about them coming any time soon.
That seems like a squandered opportunity to me. KoW is a great game gaining popularity. I think it's safe to say Uncharted Empires sold well and so the Neritica and Nightstalker lists are getting plenty of exposure and those are the armies that would best served by original Mantic models. The longer Mantic waits to produce a more complete model range it allows other manufacturers to fill the void and probably discourages some people from playing the lists.
They can't go out and make everything at once, especially not plastic kits, costs too much money. Short of another Kickstarter they can really only do what they're doing now, half a dozen new metals and one new plastic kit every six months.
In reply to RT from a week or so ago - there's always going to be an element of "lolinternet" because, you know. Internet. Mostly, though - Mantic's constant feth ups, extraordinarily slowness in rectifying those feth ups (Bob's waiting for his KoW2 stuff, I'm waiting for my DS replacements, Polonius is waiting for his movement trays) don't endear. They also have some pretty consistent design and (lack of) art direction issues as well which results in very uneven sculpts and design direction. It seems that an increasing number of people are also becoming more disturbed by their over-reliance on the volunteer RC for rules and editing. I'm all for this particular group of people having input, but they should be paid as freelancers at this point, as they're responsible for vast improvements to KoW and now presumably DeadZone, which is what has drawn people like yourself to the game in that it's a great ruleset in its own right, rather than a simple alternative.
Da Boss wrote: Pretty sweet centaurs. Better than GW's centigor, for sure.
I really like the GW centigors myself, though these look good as well. My concern would be on the way that arms and other parts join with the core pieces, presumably the body. The Ogre Breserkers are great sculpts. but they have completely flat joins for the arms wheras a ball joint/peg would have been a much smarter and more user-friendly way to go. I had them in hand for all of a couple of seconds before seeing it as an obvious and simple point of improvement, but it seems that no-one at Mantic makes those decisions. I mean, you can be that if they were GW or any number of other small companies' models that would have been thought of. I'd want to see the actual unpainted unassembled models, because I fear they could be a nightmare of pinning.
That seems like a squandered opportunity to me. KoW is a great game gaining popularity. I think it's safe to say Uncharted Empires sold well and so the Neritica and Nightstalker lists are getting plenty of exposure and those are the armies that would best served by original Mantic models. The longer Mantic waits to produce a more complete model range it allows other manufacturers to fill the void and probably discourages some people from playing the lists.
They can't go out and make everything at once, especially not plastic kits, costs too much money. Short of another Kickstarter they can really only do what they're doing now, half a dozen new metals and one new plastic kit every six months.
I do have to agree with NT here (first time for everything, eh?) They're still in the process of releasing a lot of other stuff from the KoW2 KS and producing new kits across their existing ranges. I think it's a pretty good gesture for them to release and allow for Skaven, Beastmen, TK, etc armies in their game. It's good business, no doubt - but still.
The shame is that it's actually a pretty cool idea. If for ~$30 I could get 6 minis from high end, boutique companies, plus some other goodies? I'd be interested.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Meanwhile, just for luls i'll point out Mantic's holiday mystery boxes which net you... oh... 50+ miniatures for $40. :-p
I thought that was over? Nowadays you are required to buy one bigger box for $80 or something, right?
The old mystery boxes were a good deal.
No, the last time around they did a normal mystery box (albeit Sci-Fi only) and an "Uber" box for twice the price. Despite hints that the latter would be really special, it was really just the contents of two normal boxes without the risk of content being repeated, with some LOKA stuff so that it technically wasn't entirely Sci-Fi.
This most recent batch definitely felt like the worst deal to date though, possibly because the stuff was more obviously random clearance than normal (i.e. Mars Attacks that they're no longer selling, LOKA teams that are useless by themselves, Warpath models that are being replaced, the fat female Dreadball MVP & Bug MVP that I've had in every single box to date, the scenery sprues that aren't part of the standard sets...).
Got a ticket reply from Rich. Not happy with it. I replied via ticket on Monday or Tuesday. I'll give him a week and then it's time to just send it all to Ronnie, I guess.
Don't care for metal, either. Like many Mantic models I need to see these pro-painted. Mantic really shines best when it's an army rather than single piece, IMO. Newer stuff in past year for KOW has been great.
Taaloc wrote: I'm pretty certain that the Uncharted Empires armies (not including the trident realms and Nightstalkers) were 'just' for people to plug their existing armies into and there were no plans for Mantic model ranges
Want to put money on that?
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BobtheInquisitor wrote: Got a ticket reply from Rich. Not happy with it. I replied via ticket on Monday or Tuesday. I'll give him a week and then it's time to just send it all to Ronnie, I guess.
Thanks for trying, Matt.
PM me the latest if you want to Bob. I'm off to the US (Adepticon... playing and on vacation rather than with work) for the next week but can try and help if possible.
Hope to see you there, Matt! (I'll have on a bright yellow "ModCube" shirt the whole time, and will be sure to stop by the Mantic booth when I get the chance to get away from ours!)
RiTides wrote: Hope to see you there, Matt! (I'll have on a bright yellow "ModCube" shirt the whole time, and will be sure to stop by the Mantic booth when I get the chance to get away from ours!)
I'll be playing in the KoW team event on Thursday and I'm the stand in player for the Clash of Kings on the weekend. Other than that I'm free to wander (and explore Chicago too on non-gaming days ).
Taaloc wrote: I'm pretty certain that the Uncharted Empires armies (not including the trident realms and Nightstalkers) were 'just' for people to plug their existing armies into and there were no plans for Mantic model ranges
I really like the Centaurs. I don't play Forces of Nature, and I'm pretty set on light cav with Red Goblin Scouts, but they're some of the best models I've seen from Mantic.
They are being released in metal. I already have the character from the Kickstarter. The unit is probably going to be a bit expensive For many, I think they said 30 pounds.
RobertsMinis wrote: They are being released in metal. I already have the character from the Kickstarter. The unit is probably going to be a bit expensive For many, I think they said 30 pounds.
I'm sure I've got some Darklands stuff I can use as 'counts as' for some of it - I hope!
Naiads, lizardmen, forest spirits, dryads, elementals, hydra and druids.
You can also use Centaurs in The Herd (via the Uncharted Empires book) army list, which also have werewolves, "guardian brutes" (things like minotaurs, owlbears, etc), beastmen, beast packs, giant eagles, chimera and totems.
I'm sure I've got some Darklands stuff I can use as 'counts as' for some of it - I hope!
Best Painted at last weekend's Lonewolf GT (~70 players) was won by a Herd player using exclusively Mierce models (think of Herd as a Narnia-style army).
I'm sure I've got some Darklands stuff I can use as 'counts as' for some of it - I hope!
Naiads, lizardmen, forest spirits, dryads, elementals, hydra and druids.
You can also use Centaurs in The Herd (via the Uncharted Empires book) army list, which also have werewolves, "guardian brutes" (things like minotaurs, owlbears, etc), beastmen, beast packs, giant eagles, chimera and totems.
Ha!
I can definitely field a lot of Mierce Darklands stuff in those two lists!
I'm sure I've got some Darklands stuff I can use as 'counts as' for some of it - I hope!
Best Painted at last weekend's Lonewolf GT (~70 players) was won by a Herd player using exclusively Mierce models (think of Herd as a Narnia-style army).
The best thng about Nature and Herd is that they are Neutral alignment, which means you can include stuff from other lists no matter what their alignment is (though you can't take both Evil and Good at the same time). Or you could use your Neutral troops to supplement a larger Good or Evil army. Lots of flexibility there.
It'll still add up rather quickly if you need several units but it certainly beats the pants off of, say, using otherworld miniatures centaurs for several whole blocks.
Bolognesus wrote: It'll still add up rather quickly if you need several units but it certainly beats the pants off of, say, using otherworld miniatures centaurs for several whole blocks.
They're cavalry, so unless you want to run an all cavalry army (which you could do if you wanted to), most people aren't going to need more than one troop each of the melee/range build. That way you can run one of each, or push them together to make one regiment with the type you're using at the front. It's a pretty liberal way of doing things.
Hopefully the PVC will be as nice as the Wrath of Kings models, and then we can gripe and pine for figures like these to be made in that material instead.
I'm already a fan of Mantic's BoardGame plastic(tm). I would much prefer to work with that than metal, so long as they have a smidge on of quality control. The really warped stuff that Always Comes Back after hot water treatments is an issue, but they managed to avoid it for MA and DBX, I think.
But the Infestation stuff is going to be made in the Wrath of Kings material- isn't that a different consistency than Dungeon Saga?
My Dungeon Saga stuff was really bent up pretty badly, to the point I just shelved the whole lot and haven't dealt with it at all since receiving it. It was pretty bad.
I like those centaurs a good bit! I am actually kind of surprised at how much I do. 30$ isn't too shabby either! 6$ a model for cavalry sized metals is pretty darned good these days, especially with a discount from somewhere or another.
There was nothing so bad in my 150ish plastic model strong dungeon saga pledge that 45 minutes, a kettle and a plastic tub couldn't sort out..
The main difficulty I, personally, had was some of the resin heroes felt a little bit porous and I was concerned it was brittle, with some gaps on certain resin models too.
My main frustration with Dungeon Saga stems from how badly my mates were screwed over with Mantics deplorable shipping. Nothing kills enthusiasm for s game from a mate when he can't play a game here's been waiting the better part of a year for by mantic taking literally months to send the card decks required to play the actual game.
If the final models look like that concept art, I could actually see myself collecting an army of those. The Enslaved Guardians piss all over GW's old Ushabti.
So it looks like a mix of themed upgrade kits (Skellington Warriors, Revenants, Catapult) and outright new minis (Heroes, Enslaved Guardians). Seems like a pretty decent way to do it.
I've never had much of an inclination to try Tomb Kings, but that concept is just brilliant! Like others have said, if it turned out well I'd definitely pick it up... even though I'm not sure what I'd do with it just yet
ulgurstasta wrote: Hate to be the negative one, but these are supposed to be upgrade kits to current undead minis right?
Skeletons, Revenants and Catapult will presumably be upgrade kits.
Characters and Enslaved Guardians (Ushabti analogs), I'd assume will be new sculpts in metal.
What's negative about that though? I realize some people hate plastic/metal hybrid kits, but the Mantic skeletons lend themselves rather well to separate torsos/legs in metal. There are a lot of surface to glue them together.
The negative is that I once said I am not gonna buy upgrades as long as they are metal. Upgrades in Restic would have been a thing but somehow Mantic get talked into metal again......
I have here old GW Metal Hybrids and a lot of Mantic Restic.
While Restic is harder to clean and need some hot water to fit, Metal needs more work to be attached without breaking later and you need GreenStuff for a perfect fit.
But I have no problem with full metal models, while my Brock Rider conversions would have been impossible if they models were metal.
From what I've heard, the upgrades will be hard plastic, the skeleton sprue is tooled so that one half of it can be replaced something already done with the revenants), so this very likely considering that the concepts are showing a replacement of the torsos, arms and heads.
No Kickstarter for them either, most likely. It's a new release to give ex-GW players some miniatures to buy for their army now that Tomb Kings are OOP.
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for weeks and then they sent me the rest of my order and 2 ronnies 
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Do you know who is behind it?
