this is the monoslaanesh i played at final league tournament (NO ITC rules, but CA 2018 missions) 48 players ,with a good 9th place, I faced IG (3 tank commander, pask 3 hellhounds 90 coscripts) won 20-0, demons+ts (5 psykers and 90 plaguebearers) won 12-8, orks (220 models 25 lootas) lost 6-14, eldar+ynnari (10 reapers 10 bikes 3 waves and various infantry) won 14-6, tyranids (swarmlord OOE 80 raptors) won 16-4
Can anybody give me some insight on the best ways to include a Bloodletter bomb in your list? I have a Word Bearers army that I've been running with an MoP so I could theoretically have access to summoning after moving with 4 dice + rerolls, but it seems to me that the upgraded icon is pretty much mandatory. A battalion seems to make the most sense but I'm not super keen on the idea of 2x10 letter units sitting around doing nothing. Is a patrol a viable option? Maybe another detachment all together?
Does anybody also have feedback on the Skull Altar? Thematically I think it's awesome so I'm keen to try it out in matched play.
blackmage wrote: this is the monoslaanesh i played at final league tournament (NO ITC rules, but CA 2018 missions) 48 players ,with a good 9th place, I faced IG (3 tank commander, pask 3 hellhounds 90 coscripts) won 20-0, demons+ts (5 psykers and 90 plaguebearers) won 12-8, orks (220 models 25 lootas) lost 6-14, eldar+ynnari (10 reapers 10 bikes 3 waves and various infantry) won 14-6, tyranids (swarmlord OOE 80 raptors) won 16-4
Can anybody give me some insight on the best ways to include a Bloodletter bomb in your list? I have a Word Bearers army that I've been running with an MoP so I could theoretically have access to summoning after moving with 4 dice + rerolls, but it seems to me that the upgraded icon is pretty much mandatory. A battalion seems to make the most sense but I'm not super keen on the idea of 2x10 letter units sitting around doing nothing. Is a patrol a viable option? Maybe another detachment all together?
Does anybody also have feedback on the Skull Altar? Thematically I think it's awesome so I'm keen to try it out in matched play.
Good sizes for bloodletters bombs:
15 bloodletters: minimum number, enough kill power to wipe backfield units, characters, and generally still be considered a big threat
20 bloodletters: best for saving 1 cp on denizens of the warp, has significantly more damage if none die in overwatch
23-25 bloodletters: uses more cp but has a good chance of staying above 20 models and doing significant damage
30 bloodetters: maximum damage, generally overkill for most targets, good if you have cp to spare for auto-passing morale after they get blown to pieces on the following turn
Never take bloodletters without banner/deep strike and never take minimum size units of bloodletters. Instruments are ok as extra insurance for your 3D6 charge but usually you won't need them. 3D6 is plenty.
A nice Khorne patrol detachment is 1 skullreaver DP and 1 bloodletter bomb. I wouldn't take multiple units of bloodletters because you only need one to force your opponent to screen and having more than one doesn't help you in that scenario. If I wanted a cheap battalion I'd take a mixed daemons detachment of 2x10 brimstones, 2 DPs or a DP/herald of your choice, and the bloodletter bomb.
Can anybody give me some insight on the best ways to include a Bloodletter bomb in your list? I have a Word Bearers army that I've been running with an MoP so I could theoretically have access to summoning after moving with 4 dice + rerolls, but it seems to me that the upgraded icon is pretty much mandatory. A battalion seems to make the most sense but I'm not super keen on the idea of 2x10 letter units sitting around doing nothing. Is a patrol a viable option? Maybe another detachment all together?
Does anybody also have feedback on the Skull Altar? Thematically I think it's awesome so I'm keen to try it out in matched play.
You could use a chaos undivided battalion with pink horrors, brimstones, bloodletters, and 2 HQs, like daemon prince of tzeentch, fluxmaster, changecaster, a khorne character. Or a khorne patrol with one HQ and bloodletters. The HQ would provide the ability to re-roll failed charges, when he deepstrikes with the bloodletters.
So what are people thinking about Syll’Esske now that he is out? Is there any special type of list he works better in? My thinking was to just have him run up the field with 3 fiends and 3 venom crawlers from marines and make a pressure force that demands my opponents attention, but how would you run him in a pure demons force? Is he just an auto replacement for a normal deamon prince?
Azuza001 wrote: So what are people thinking about Syll’Esske now that he is out? Is there any special type of list he works better in? My thinking was to just have him run up the field with 3 fiends and 3 venom crawlers from marines and make a pressure force that demands my opponents attention, but how would you run him in a pure demons force? Is he just an auto replacement for a normal deamon prince?
I don’t think they’re an *auto* replace for a 12+3” flying DP. Rather different units. In pure Daemons, I suspect they’ll have synergy with a Nurgle battalion that can use Nurglings to goad units forwards into 9”+Advance+charge range.
Looks fun. That's a lot of daemonettes. How many daemon troops do you own??
Also what is a tyranid raptor? Did you mean 80 genestealers?
yes i meant genestealers, i own tons of demons, 90 demonettes, 120 plaguebearers, 40 pink horrors, 15 nurgling bases, 60 bloodletters, more or less all HQ and at many other demons, i play them since 5th editions.
In ETC format, which heavily rely on CA2018 missions (objective progressive control), you need lot of troops.
Excommunicatus wrote: My plans for Syll'Esske are to give it Celerity, surround it with Seekers and Fiends and run at them, shouting.
Syllesske is forced to take the bewitching aura for its warlord trait. I view this as just fine because the full datasheet shows it has a regal authority ability to allow Slaanesh units to reroll any morale roll. Perfect for big blobs of Daemonettes.
Also, there have been some more unboxings of the Contorted Epitome and GW forgot to add points values for 40k. It says “refer to your codex”. Wtf
Syll'Esske seems like a glass cannon mega blender... like the glass cannon skullreaver DP except for hordes instead of titanic.
Contorted Epitomes just seem like extra killy daemon princes with great psychic. Cast 2 deny 2 with +1 to both is actually insane.
Both picks are generally less mobile (no fly) and squishier than your usual Tzeentch DP but they make up for it with extra killiness and some solid support effects. How much mileage they get depends entirely on how much the rest of the list can benefit from those support effects. Otherwise they both essentially perform the same role as a DP. Solid DP-alternatives for competitive Slaanesh players.
So it's more of a mixed Chaos option, but I'm thinking that a Renegade Knight might be the best option for anyone wanting to take a Keeper in their army. It's a large and durable enough fire magnet to allow the Keeper to look less threatening, provides some much needed range support to the army and can bring some anti-air options as well (considering how common the fly keyword is these days there's never a reason not to have some anti-fly options either).
Downside is that it breaks the monobuild and even if you go for the biggest and best options it doesn't compete with the loyalist knights (plus you can't give it the Daemon keyword by making it possessed or give it a Mark to align it with any of the gods).
Syll'Esske is definitely a great support HQ for the army and can do some good work. The lack of wings is the only thing really hurting the model since it means we can't be as mobile as we'd like to be.
Contorted Epitomes is definitely pretty good all around, even if you take it mainly as a denial unit, since you can lock enemy models into combat with it to let you do more damage without getting shot, and I feel like it pairs well with the harp for screwing over enemy psykers. No idea on cost though. If it's another 200+ point HQ choice I wouldn't take more than one in an army.
slave.entity wrote: Syll'Esske seems like a glass cannon mega blender... like the glass cannon skullreaver DP except for hordes instead of titanic.
Contorted Epitomes just seem like extra killy daemon princes with great psychic. Cast 2 deny 2 with +1 to both is actually insane.
Both picks are generally less mobile (no fly) and squishier than your usual Tzeentch DP but they make up for it with extra killiness and some solid support effects. How much mileage they get depends entirely on how much the rest of the list can benefit from those support effects. Otherwise they both essentially perform the same role as a DP. Solid DP-alternatives for competitive Slaanesh players.
Syll'esske can deliver quite more damage than any demon codexDp (beside korne Dp) lack of fly is pretty huge consider the new fly faq, for me he can have a place in a slaanesh based demon list, you have herald+dp for 210pt.
Syllesske is forced to take the bewitching aura for its warlord trait. I view this as just fine because the full datasheet shows it has a regal authority ability to allow Slaanesh units to reroll any morale roll. Perfect for big blobs of Daemonettes.
Also, there have been some more unboxings of the Contorted Epitome and GW forgot to add points values for 40k. It says “refer to your codex”. Wtf
It's truly amazing what Syll'Esske does for Daemonette blobs. Providing 4 different auras: +1 strength, re-rolling 1's to hit, re-rolling morale, and providing Advance and Charge. Or five auras if taken as a warlord for: forcing -1 attack on enemies within 6". All for 30 pts more than a winged Daemon Prince and 30 pts less that a Keeper of Secrets.
Contorted Epitomes just seem like extra killy daemon princes with great psychic. Cast 2 deny 2 with +1 to both is actually insane.
What really makes the Mirror powerful is its synergy with the Infernal Enrapturess and Fiends. It's going to hard for enemy Psykers to stay out of range on those de-buffs given the mobility of those units. Then it providing an additional means of holding units including flyers in combat.
Ok, so put it with the Chariots and run at them, shouting. Daemonettes are too slow for Syll'Esske, IMO.
Well taking instruments on the Daemonettes does boost them slightly, and it is allot of ablative wounds. The Infernal Enrapturess and Masque running up the middle with a Syll'Esske and a horde seems pretty powerful and will definitely draw attention. I'd run the Mirror along with Seeker Chariots and Hellflayers instead.
Speaking of which both the Hellflayer, and Exalted Seeker Chariot are all just gone from the GW website. Not, unavailable or out of stock the pages and links are just gone. For the 40K side even the basic Seeker Chariots gone. Now we know they all got new rules in the Hedonite battletome so its probably just a re-boxing. But what are the odds we get updated chariot rules and the three Herald chariot variants ported over to 40K? That could be interesting. If only they'd let us take take chariots in cavalcades of three again I have 14 of them.
slave.entity wrote: Syll'Esske seems like a glass cannon mega blender... like the glass cannon skullreaver DP except for hordes instead of titanic.
Contorted Epitomes just seem like extra killy daemon princes with great psychic. Cast 2 deny 2 with +1 to both is actually insane.
Both picks are generally less mobile (no fly) and squishier than your usual Tzeentch DP but they make up for it with extra killiness and some solid support effects. How much mileage they get depends entirely on how much the rest of the list can benefit from those support effects. Otherwise they both essentially perform the same role as a DP. Solid DP-alternatives for competitive Slaanesh players.
Syll'esske can deliver quite more damage than any demon codexDp (beside korne Dp) lack of fly is pretty huge consider the new fly faq, for me he can have a place in a slaanesh based demon list, you have herald+dp for 210pt.
Yeah Syll'Esske is essentially the Skullreaver Khorne DP except for hordes instead of titanic. I like this a comparison a lot. It's a very cool niche for a unit.
Contorted Epitomes just seem like extra killy daemon princes with great psychic. Cast 2 deny 2 with +1 to both is actually insane.
What really makes the Mirror powerful is its synergy with the Infernal Enrapturess and Fiends. It's going to hard for enemy Psykers to stay out of range on those de-buffs given the mobility of those units. Then it providing an additional means of holding units including flyers in combat.
Ok, so put it with the Chariots and run at them, shouting. Daemonettes are too slow for Syll'Esske, IMO.
Well taking instruments on the Daemonettes does boost them slightly, and it is allot of ablative wounds. The Infernal Enrapturess and Masque running up the middle with a Syll'Esske and a horde seems pretty powerful and will definitely draw attention. I'd run the Mirror along with Seeker Chariots and Hellflayers instead.
Speaking of which both the Hellflayer, and Exalted Seeker Chariot are all just gone from the GW website. Not, unavailable or out of stock the pages and links are just gone. For the 40K side even the basic Seeker Chariots gone. Now we know they all got new rules in the Hedonite battletome so its probably just a re-boxing. But what are the odds we get updated chariot rules and the three Herald chariot variants ported over to 40K? That could be interesting. If only they'd let us take take chariots in cavalcades of three again I have 14 of them.
I wish that was the case too, but I suspect it's just a re-boxing like you said. The fact the start collecting box, with the chariot, is still on the UK site indicates as such.
ClockworkZion wrote: There should be points on its datadheet but I have yet to see that bottom part so no idea.
They made an error and didn’t include points. At the top it says “refer to your codex for the full rules” aka - points.
Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page has responded to me though and said they’ve bumped it up to the team and will respond ASAP on Fb when they get word on this.
However, between this and what my store manager said today he basically confirmed an EC release being inbound.
ClockworkZion wrote: There should be points on its datadheet but I have yet to see that bottom part so no idea.
They made an error and didn’t include points. At the top it says “refer to your codex for the full rules” aka - points.
Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page has responded to me though and said they’ve bumped it up to the team and will respond ASAP on Fb when they get word on this.
However, between this and what my store manager said today he basically confirmed an EC release being inbound.
While I welcome EC and the new Renegade Knight thing, I feel like the refer to your codex thing means when it went off for boxing they hadn't finished playtesting it yet and decided to assign points in Daemons 2.0 only to bump up the release due to the Aid schedule and now we're in limbo roght now while we wait.
Figured this was a good place to share some more detailed analysis of the mono-Slaanesh options after doing a write up for WarhammerCompetive on Reddit:
I appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions, and taking wverything into consideration I'm going to toss out my own notes regarding Mono-Slaanesh.
But before we go there, there seems to be a small problem regarding the Contorted Epitome: it lacks a points cost and says to refer to the codex instead.
My only guess is that means play testing wasn't complete when the box was being finalized which means we'll likely see it in a 2.0 codex update in the semi-near future. In the meantime some folks have contacted the Facebook team who are reaching out to the rules team for a points cost.
Which means the best psyker option we have is temporarily unplayable using matched play points. Not good.
Moving on to less depressing thoughts, the Keeper (this includes Helbane as well) suffers the same short comings the other Greater Daemons do: a lack of an improved invuls save versus what Heralds have, a model size that makes them impressive to look at but hard to hide from Line of Sight, a lack of options to increase durability versus shooting, and generally they just aren't that good for their points value. The ways around this for a pure Slaanesh daemons is to either take multiples to dilute incoming firepower, or run a character up to the mid-board (preferably into cover somewhere) and then throw a bunch of CP at summoning on turn 2 since we actually have a reasonable shot at summoning and can position the Greater Darmon into charge range.
Naturally the Enrapturess fits the bill for doing this thanks to her bonuses, but a Chariot Herald from the index may be worth considering due to the increased movement range and higher durability.
For mixed Chaos lists I feel pairing a Keeper with a knight (namely a ranged one) makes the most sense since the Knight will generally draw more firepower onto it and can do a fair bit of work supportiing the army.
Syll'Esske is a natural favorite of most players bases on lore and looks, and the stacking bubbles makes them a good escort character for large hordes of things. I lean a bit more towards escorting Daemonettes though as they can pair with the Masque to get the Daemonette protection buff in melee thanks to also being a Daemonette. Either way they're best used to either heroically intervene when something they're escorting charges, or counter charging since we lack ways to effectively protect such a tall model from Overwatch.
The Infernal Enrapturess has two strengths worth taking her for (three if you want to summon a Keeper): she can bring back dead daemons, and she messes with enemy psykers. Quite honestly I'd rather use her over the classic Herald since she brings the same aura effects the Heralds do (since she is on) but adds in some much needed ranged support (worth taking her over a herald for that along, but not worth taking her in general), healing and psyker protection. Basically I'm saying I plan to take at least 2 at 2k.
Daemon Princes with Wings are definitely back. With restrictions keeping us at only have 3 in an army unless we summon more don't count on going crazy with allies. Due to character targetting they're best with a fast unit (Fiends have my vote since they have a lot of solid support bonuses) so they can safely run up the board before using their escort to run into your opponent's screen while they try to get into contact with the unit behind the screen. Basically an option worth taking at least one of in any competetive army.
The Contorted Epitome is another "take at least one of" choice for the faction due to combination of a solid character profile, good psyker bonuses, the ability to help lock units in combat, and a strong defence against Mortal Wounds (throw one at a Black Legion Chainlord and laugh as they struggle to kill you character). Running at least 200 points (likely more) I don't think most people will be running more than 2 in a list, but one is definitely a good choice.
With indexes being phased out I won't speak of the chariot Heralds, but with luck we'll get them back when we see the next Daemons update.
Fiends are naturally still an excellent unit option as they can support any character, work as a fast moving support unit assassin and can hold things in combat for us. Definitely worth taking.
Daemonettes are our greatest weakness however. Lacking the defense of Nurgle (who can now match our speed with the right options), the psychic options or troll factormof Tzeentch or ths ability to tear things in half like Khorne these girls need support to function effectively. Either go MSU and use units of ten to hold objectives or go big and try and get the extra attacks while getting buffs from our HQs.
Seekers are another unit that is currently rather underwhelming, but has speed to get into position and hit smaller units with some level of effectiveness. Just don't think they can take dedicated combat units out and you'll be fine.
Hellflayers are my preferred recommendation for the Fast Attack slot though. They're cheaper, have more wounds, less prone to worrying about their morale and can do mortal wounds. Basically just take these instead.
Seeker Chariots are much like Seekers: just okay. Their greatest advantage is being cheap which helps for building mono Slaanesh brigades, but I recommend using the extra 30 points per model to just take Exalted Seeker Chatiots instead due to being a large improvement for a pittance of points.
Thinking of starting a second army, Thousand sons/Daemons.
Does anyone run Magnus and Ahriman in a list at the moment and if so do they have any good advice for me?
I really like a lot of the chaos range and am not sure where to start but Ideally would like a Supreme command of DP's Ahriman and Magnus. I'm just not sure what how to make the rest of the list work.
Thinking of starting a second army, Thousand sons/Daemons.
Does anyone run Magnus and Ahriman in a list at the moment and if so do they have any good advice for me?
I really like a lot of the chaos range and am not sure where to start but Ideally would like a Supreme command of DP's Ahriman and Magnus. I'm just not sure what how to make the rest of the list work.
You can see Ahriman in almost every competitive Chaos list. A default SuperCo detc of TSons is Ahriman and two talon-DPs.
Fewer and fewer lists have Magnus today. If a shooty opponent is prepared to fight a knight, usually he could also delete Magnus in one turn.
Figured this was a good place to share some more detailed analysis of the mono-Slaanesh options after doing a write up for WarhammerCompetive on Reddit:
I appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions, and taking wverything into consideration I'm going to toss out my own notes regarding Mono-Slaanesh.
But before we go there, there seems to be a small problem regarding the Contorted Epitome: it lacks a points cost and says to refer to the codex instead.
My only guess is that means play testing wasn't complete when the box was being finalized which means we'll likely see it in a 2.0 codex update in the semi-near future. In the meantime some folks have contacted the Facebook team who are reaching out to the rules team for a points cost.
Which means the best psyker option we have is temporarily unplayable using matched play points. Not good.
Moving on to less depressing thoughts, the Keeper (this includes Helbane as well) suffers the same short comings the other Greater Daemons do: a lack of an improved invuls save versus what Heralds have, a model size that makes them impressive to look at but hard to hide from Line of Sight, a lack of options to increase durability versus shooting, and generally they just aren't that good for their points value. The ways around this for a pure Slaanesh daemons is to either take multiples to dilute incoming firepower, or run a character up to the mid-board (preferably into cover somewhere) and then throw a bunch of CP at summoning on turn 2 since we actually have a reasonable shot at summoning and can position the Greater Darmon into charge range.
Naturally the Enrapturess fits the bill for doing this thanks to her bonuses, but a Chariot Herald from the index may be worth considering due to the increased movement range and higher durability.
For mixed Chaos lists I feel pairing a Keeper with a knight (namely a ranged one) makes the most sense since the Knight will generally draw more firepower onto it and can do a fair bit of work supportiing the army.
Syll'Esske is a natural favorite of most players bases on lore and looks, and the stacking bubbles makes them a good escort character for large hordes of things. I lean a bit more towards escorting Daemonettes though as they can pair with the Masque to get the Daemonette protection buff in melee thanks to also being a Daemonette. Either way they're best used to either heroically intervene when something they're escorting charges, or counter charging since we lack ways to effectively protect such a tall model from Overwatch.
The Infernal Enrapturess has two strengths worth taking her for (three if you want to summon a Keeper): she can bring back dead daemons, and she messes with enemy psykers. Quite honestly I'd rather use her over the classic Herald since she brings the same aura effects the Heralds do (since she is on) but adds in some much needed ranged support (worth taking her over a herald for that along, but not worth taking her in general), healing and psyker protection. Basically I'm saying I plan to take at least 2 at 2k.
Daemon Princes with Wings are definitely back. With restrictions keeping us at only have 3 in an army unless we summon more don't count on going crazy with allies. Due to character targetting they're best with a fast unit (Fiends have my vote since they have a lot of solid support bonuses) so they can safely run up the board before using their escort to run into your opponent's screen while they try to get into contact with the unit behind the screen. Basically an option worth taking at least one of in any competetive army.
The Contorted Epitome is another "take at least one of" choice for the faction due to combination of a solid character profile, good psyker bonuses, the ability to help lock units in combat, and a strong defence against Mortal Wounds (throw one at a Black Legion Chainlord and laugh as they struggle to kill you character). Running at least 200 points (likely more) I don't think most people will be running more than 2 in a list, but one is definitely a good choice.
With indexes being phased out I won't speak of the chariot Heralds, but with luck we'll get them back when we see the next Daemons update.
Fiends are naturally still an excellent unit option as they can support any character, work as a fast moving support unit assassin and can hold things in combat for us. Definitely worth taking.
Daemonettes are our greatest weakness however. Lacking the defense of Nurgle (who can now match our speed with the right options), the psychic options or troll factormof Tzeentch or ths ability to tear things in half like Khorne these girls need support to function effectively. Either go MSU and use units of ten to hold objectives or go big and try and get the extra attacks while getting buffs from our HQs.
Seekers are another unit that is currently rather underwhelming, but has speed to get into position and hit smaller units with some level of effectiveness. Just don't think they can take dedicated combat units out and you'll be fine.
Hellflayers are my preferred recommendation for the Fast Attack slot though. They're cheaper, have more wounds, less prone to worrying about their morale and can do mortal wounds. Basically just take these instead.
Seeker Chariots are much like Seekers: just okay. Their greatest advantage is being cheap which helps for building mono Slaanesh brigades, but I recommend using the extra 30 points per model to just take Exalted Seeker Chatiots instead due to being a large improvement for a pittance of points.
I don't think that the Epitome is more than 200 points. Syll'eskee is 210 and has powerlevel 11. The Epitome has only PL 10. I know GW did some strange PL to points conversions in the past, but I think it is safe to say that it will cost at least less than our tag team.
Thinking of starting a second army, Thousand sons/Daemons.
Does anyone run Magnus and Ahriman in a list at the moment and if so do they have any good advice for me?
I really like a lot of the chaos range and am not sure where to start but Ideally would like a Supreme command of DP's Ahriman and Magnus. I'm just not sure what how to make the rest of the list work.
You can see Ahriman in almost every competitive Chaos list. A default SuperCo detc of TSons is Ahriman and two talon-DPs.
Fewer and fewer lists have Magnus today. If a shooty opponent is prepared to fight a knight, usually he could also delete Magnus in one turn.
Magnus is a bullet magnet. Your opponent has to kill him T1, if he does the rest of your army escapes unscathed. If he doesnt you will cause a lot of trouble with him, cast warptime on him, -1 to hit, +1 to inv. Move him twice, charge, and kill his units.
I'm not seeing anything on Her Datasheet or the FAQ.
No, she never had a fixed WL trait. None of the Exalted Greater Daemons do. How do you plan on using her in your list?
My Daemon tactics are always 'run at it, shouting'. The only question is which group what goes in. Zarakynel gets Celerity and goes with the Seekers and Fiends. Someone yesterday whined that she's not allowed Celerity, but they couldn't support it. Out of an abundance of caution, I asked here.
I don't think I will ever run Zarakynel as Zarakynel again, to be honest. She's 396pts more expensive than Shalaxi and doesn't come anywhere near to justifying the extra expense.
timetowaste85 wrote: If you wanna run Magnus, it seems you either need to use him as the distraction Carnifex or run multiple big guns.
Is there a good way to do that.
Build a list with plenty of bodies and have Magnus as a kind of expendable missile to throw at the enemy?
Or am I going to Find that losing nearly 1/4 of my army turn 1 is too hard to come back from?
Depends on the ruleset. A handful of top 100-200 chaos lists had both magnus, mortarion at the last LVO. These lists used fewer drops to leverage the +1 roll for advantage but whenever the lists would go second typically playing hard from behind. I'm not a huge fan of these coinflip lists even with the 63/37 First turn split - but they might do better now that castellans have been relegated to the competitive dumpster for the most part.
Ah the bash bros. I’d be open to running both but I was wondering if running just Magnus was viable. I think I’m going to have to start small and work out my playstyle first. Maybe use some proxies before I buy
I posted that I’m building the army of Magnus, Morty and a Kytan, backed up by Flawless Host marines led my two blender-princes. Five big, scary targets that can shred anything they get close to. I’d say something like that; offer up a bunch of scary targets, expect to lose any one of them, and have the others crump face.
My Bash Bros list is Magnus, Morty, a LoC with impossible robe for big guys. Then a skullreaver DP, bloodletter bomb, and plague drones for strikers. A PB blob and some nurglings with a herald round out the board control. Dominates the psychic phase and is quite effective but very unforgiving of mistakes, especially in movement.
buddha wrote: My Bash Bros list is Magnus, Morty, a LoC with impossible robe for big guys. Then a skullreaver DP, bloodletter bomb, and plague drones for strikers. A PB blob and some nurglings with a herald round out the board control. Dominates the psychic phase and is quite effective but very unforgiving of mistakes, especially in movement.
may i ask usually what army lists you face and average player level? that is important to understand if the list is really competitive or not
buddha wrote: My Bash Bros list is Magnus, Morty, a LoC with impossible robe for big guys. Then a skullreaver DP, bloodletter bomb, and plague drones for strikers. A PB blob and some nurglings with a herald round out the board control. Dominates the psychic phase and is quite effective but very unforgiving of mistakes, especially in movement.
may i ask usually what army lists you face and average player level? that is important to understand if the list is really competitive or not
I'm in the northeast with some of the best local tournaments and tournament players in the country so whatever the meta hotness is what I'm usually against. At best I'm an okayish player but the list works, it's usually just my poor piloting that dooms it.
blackmage wrote: how it perform against a guard+3 Ik's for example, suppose you use ITC format
Almost always ITC. Didn't play the normal meta list at last event but I played pre-faq multi-knights and it did okay. Biggest problem was Morty getting punked by the paragon gauntlet (freaking things doing 8dmg a pop) but that's aside. Morty is a missile and it's shot by Magnus (warptime) who usually supports next turn. The LoC is mostly a fire magnet but can do some serious work when paired with the DP and/or the letters. The plague drones are some of the best mobile bullet sponges in the game for screening things like the DP or just camping an objective. PBs are amazing at board control but I happily admit I'm poor at the movement phase and charge blocking. The list works as it forces an opponent to react to you which is why it also so skill dependant on the player. Orks were the hardest as they just have so many wounds to chew through and if against SAG can start losing your big guys before they can do much.
buddha wrote: My Bash Bros list is Magnus, Morty, a LoC with impossible robe for big guys. Then a skullreaver DP, bloodletter bomb, and plague drones for strikers. A PB blob and some nurglings with a herald round out the board control. Dominates the psychic phase and is quite effective but very unforgiving of mistakes, especially in movement.
i played morty+magnus list only 1 time, but i used a TS battalion with 24x2 tzaangors a TSdp Ahrimann and ts sorcerer, i used then to summon about 20 pink horrors, but natural list nemesis was IG+castellan unless IG player isn't skilled. Your list seems stronger but still unsure how it can perform against a good piloted IG list
blackmage wrote: i played morty+magnus list only 1 time, but i used a TS battalion with 24x2 tzaangors a TSdp Ahrimann and ts sorcerer, i used then to summon about 20 pink horrors, but natural list nemesis was IG+castellan unless IG player isn't skilled. Your list seems stronger but still unsure how it can perform against a good piloted IG list
I think the TS version you posted can be stronger than demons but I like the toolbox approach and demons fit that need better.
IG, itself, is not a problem for the list. You can bad touch and lock vehicle heavy lists and with all the fly (especially post-faq) you can get past screens. The usual ogryn blob melts to mortal wounds. The soup version though, ya, problematic. I'm now less afraid of the single castellan but smash captains are still a huge problem in combination. Not unsolvable though as such list are also weaker to heavy pressure on a line and you can overload for sure. All academic, of course, and I'm curious what the new meta list will look like post-faq and if castellan's have finally moved to the point inefficient realm which would really open up bash Bros.
Just an FYI there were a handful of morty / mag lists in LVO top 100 (5-1 or 4-2) this past year - it works but seems to be a coinflip on who gets first turn when against castellan etc.
orkswubwub wrote: Just an FYI there were a handful of morty / mag lists in LVO top 100 (5-1 or 4-2) this past year - it works but seems to be a coinflip on who gets first turn when against castellan etc.
that's why i asked about IG+IK that's the worst matchup, now maybe castellans are gone but you will face couple of crusaders and/or gallant, not a great matchup anyway
point enough to summon 20 pink horrors 1st or 2nd turn depend by need,
I’m new to chaos, can you explain the benefit to leaving pinks for summoning rather than bringing them in? Is it to act as a mid game screen/ obj grabber?
I think the idea is to summon them in both to avoid paying CPs to Deep Strike them and to keep the excellent Thousand Sons Legion Trait, which would be broken if you included the Horrors in the army list.
point enough to summon 20 pink horrors 1st or 2nd turn depend by need,
I’m new to chaos, can you explain the benefit to leaving pinks for summoning rather than bringing them in? Is it to act as a mid game screen/ obj grabber?
He has no detachment to bring them in as battleforged. That's all there is to it really.
point enough to summon 20 pink horrors 1st or 2nd turn depend by need,
I’m new to chaos, can you explain the benefit to leaving pinks for summoning rather than bringing them in? Is it to act as a mid game screen/ obj grabber?
i dont want break legions traits and wont pay cp ( i have only 9) to DS them, now i can summon 1st turn if needed so more or less like have them on the table. dont move sorcerer and summon them at 12" should be enough to get them in range of something
point enough to summon 20 pink horrors 1st or 2nd turn depend by need,
I’m new to chaos, can you explain the benefit to leaving pinks for summoning rather than bringing them in? Is it to act as a mid game screen/ obj grabber?
i dont want break legions traits and wont pay cp ( i have only 9) to DS them, now i can summon 1st turn if needed so more or less like have them on the table. dont move sorcerer and summon them at 12" should be enough to get them in range of something
This also means they get extra reach of Advancing without having to actually Advance, which keeps their accuracy up, and will shoot at full strength when you go second. I have to admit, the new rules for reserves might have made Summoning at the very least a viable gimmick.
I’ve been musing over a Tzeentch Daemons Supreme Command in a Word Bearers Daemonkin list - a Daemonspark Flying Herald, Blue Scribes for headology, and Changeling for Oblit & Possessed 6+++. Master of Possession advances & uses Incursion to Summon a pink horde, Herald supercharges their & the Oblits’ shooting.
195 points is expensive but based on experiance from 4th/5th edition from 3d6 psychic tests vs Eldar the anti fallback ability is going to be really strong.
Magnus isn't completely horrible, but he isn't that great either (especially in a competitive setting). You need to support him with a psyker who can keep up (like Ahriman) so you can leverage his mortal wounds vs him casting trying to protect himself. The Changeling is useful in this respect too.
In a competitive setting, don't forget to bring flamers of some sort as every Imperium player who set aside 85 points for the stratagem is going to throw a Culexus Assassin at you.
Yes, definitely taking two Mirrors now. They're powerful in game and the lore is excellent. Never, ever says its creator name three times while looking in a mirror. It's just to bad that Slaanesh no longer has her Slicing Shards spell it would fit so well with the theme. I got a second box of endless spells to convert up Mesmerizing Mirror as a second Contorted Epitome.
Rydria wrote: 195 points is expensive but based on experiance from 4th/5th edition from 3d6 psychic tests vs Eldar the anti fallback ability is going to be really strong.
Well, its only 15 pts more than a winged Daemon Prince. While being just as fast, nearly as strong in melee and a far more powerful caster. It doesn't seem to bad price wise.
I was going to proxy my Fane of Slaanesh in as a Noctilith Crown until we get proper rules for it; since GW's recommended in in their Slaanesh Daemon tactics article from today. But I honestly don't see the point. The Infernal Enrapturess forces enemy Psykers to perils on any double and is 20 pts cheaper, is mobile, and doesn't blow up endangering your own units. The 5++ invulnerably save does nothing for Daemons, and you have to take a CSM detachment to it. I not sure the 6-12" bubble of re-rolling Psychic tests is worth it when all of our Psykers are so mobile, especially the mirrors.
im testing one but is not a strictly monoSL build, most of units are slaaesh but im playing also Magnus and a LoC, i need something can divert attention from my fragile r3 ts 5++ models, slaanesh could benefit from pink horrors too, if you want stay strictly monoSL, play couple of KoS
Excommunicatus wrote: CSM version is 5+++, Daemon one is 6+++. No, they haven't 'fixed' it. I don't think it's a mistake, honestly.
Baffling, but not mistaken.
The CSM one costs an additional warp charge to cast, right? I think they are meant to be different spells. For some reason they think a 5++ and 5+ FNP is too much for Slaanesh Daemons.
As for how to build a Mono-Slaanesh army, I see a number of different ways to do it.
Because I like the new Syll'Esske model, story and rules SO much I am basing my forces around them. Which leads to a force of 90 Daemonettes + Syll'Esske, + The Masque as my first batallion. Then I added a spearhead detachement with a contorted epitome and 3 exalted seeker chariots. This is where I am getting a little stuck. My opinion is either add in 2 Keepers or no Keepers and flood the board with stuff like Hellflayers and the Mirrors, other DPs... hrm.
Keepers were only borderline good when they were cheap. Giving them a modest stat buff and thank cranking their points up 50% isn't a net improvement (Obliterators say "hi"!). GW seems to be clueless when it comes to making Greater Daemons worthwhile, so any viable Daemon army since the codex dropped has revolved around hordes of little stuff, and critters that can hide behind said little stuff. And because Daemon Troops are so comparatively efficient vs other options, non-Troop/HQ units need to bring some pretty spectacular stuff to the table just to earn a spot. And the overwhelming majority do not.
Sokhar wrote: Keepers were only borderline good when they were cheap. Giving them a modest stat buff and thank cranking their points up 50% isn't a net improvement (Obliterators say "hi"!). GW seems to be clueless when it comes to making Greater Daemons worthwhile, so any viable Daemon army since the codex dropped has revolved around hordes of little stuff, and critters that can hide behind said little stuff. And because Daemon Troops are so comparatively efficient vs other options, non-Troop/HQ units need to bring some pretty spectacular stuff to the table just to earn a spot. And the overwhelming majority do not.
The quickest changed to help Greater Daemons would be to give them a 4++. They're a massive embodiment of warp energy and should feel like it on the table.
Then again, I'm the same person who feels like Slaanesh should be a -1 to hit at any range because their beguiling movements distract you.
ClockworkZion wrote: The quickest changed to help Greater Daemons would be to give them a 4++. They're a massive embodiment of warp energy and should feel like it on the table.
And in general, moving summoning to the start of the movement phase would make that pretty key component of Chaos Daemons a lot more functional in game. Sure, it would go around the current 'deep strike' rules but I don't think it would break the game if daemons - especially greaters - got to fight in a round of combat before getting fallen back from and ventilated by shooting.
Then again, I'm the same person who feels like Slaanesh should be a -1 to hit at any range because their beguiling movements distract you.
a large blob of 9 nurglings bases can be a good alternative to 30 pb's (if you dont want to play more than 60), bur they are anyway less durable (t2 and sometimes they dont get FNP) and less damage output (ac4+ and S 2)
So I’ve been playing around with BattleScribe now that it’s updated for fun and I think I’ve come up with some ideas for 2k lists that could at least be interesting/fun and take full advantage of Slaanesh’s speed being its big attribute.
I think one of our fun options now is that our KOS can keep up with Seekers and Fiends with base movement, and we have the Contorted Epitome that is right behind everyone. breaths a little life into the Seeker squads as they were running up unsupported before... but we have a lot of potential target saturation to present in someone’s face. MSU Daemonettes provide board control.
This list is also based on the models I have and what I think looks cool... optimizations would likely be more Fiends instead of a Hellflayer.
Fellow Slaanesh followers. Is there anything keeping us from giving the Epitome the slothful claws? It's labeled as a Herold of slaneesh and it got ravaging claws that get replaced.
ClockworkZion wrote: I feel like Hellflayers are pretty important since they're one of our only sources of mortal wounds.
The list looks interesting and fun.
The Hellflayer doesn't dish out mortal wounds sadly... unless I have seriously misread something? The two Exalted Chariots and the psykers do though.
rhavien wrote: Fellow Slaanesh followers. Is there anything keeping us from giving the Epitome the slothful claws? It's labeled as a Herold of slaneesh and it got ravaging claws that get replaced.
I see no reason why you couldn't do this. It's listed in it's equipment and the relic simply replaces the equipment with that name. So... I say sally forth.
rhavien wrote: Fellow Slaanesh followers. Is there anything keeping us from giving the Epitome the slothful claws? It's labeled as a Herold of slaneesh and it got ravaging claws that get replaced.
The slothful claw doesn't have the special rules to let you do the 8 bonus attacks so this seems like an awful idea.
rhavien wrote: Fellow Slaanesh followers. Is there anything keeping us from giving the Epitome the slothful claws? It's labeled as a Herold of slaneesh and it got ravaging claws that get replaced.
The slothful claw doesn't have the special rules to let you do the 8 bonus attacks so this seems like an awful idea.
I think that’s wrong. It says you can use the 2 herald attendants attacks, “make 8 additional attacks using this weapon profile”
The weapon profile is simply replaced by the slothful claws profile and rules. Ergo it would still function the same.
rhavien wrote: Fellow Slaanesh followers. Is there anything keeping us from giving the Epitome the slothful claws? It's labeled as a Herold of slaneesh and it got ravaging claws that get replaced.
The slothful claw doesn't have the special rules to let you do the 8 bonus attacks so this seems like an awful idea.
I think that’s wrong. It says you can use the 2 herald attendants attacks, “make 8 additional attacks using this weapon profile”
The weapon profile is simply replaced by the slothful claws profile and rules. Ergo it would still function the same.
I feel like that needs a FAQ since it could be intentional that they didn't give the model 8 attacks and giving the tentacles "make two additional attacks with this weapon".
Besides, I feel like the Forbidden Gem is better since you can use it for some key character assassination.
rhavien wrote: Fellow Slaanesh followers. Is there anything keeping us from giving the Epitome the slothful claws? It's labeled as a Herold of slaneesh and it got ravaging claws that get replaced.
The slothful claw doesn't have the special rules to let you do the 8 bonus attacks so this seems like an awful idea.
I think that’s wrong. It says you can use the 2 herald attendants attacks, “make 8 additional attacks using this weapon profile”
The weapon profile is simply replaced by the slothful claws profile and rules. Ergo it would still function the same.
I feel like that needs a FAQ since it could be intentional that they didn't give the model 8 attacks and giving the tentacles "make two additional attacks with this weapon".
Besides, I feel like the Forbidden Gem is better since you can use it for some key character assassination.
Exactly this, the additional attacks are a part of that weapons profile, just in the same way the bonus attack from chainswords are a part of the weapon profile.
I've found that the forbidden gem is amazing as well. Shutting down a characters ability to fight, or alternatively flee from combat is great.
rhavien wrote: Fellow Slaanesh followers. Is there anything keeping us from giving the Epitome the slothful claws? It's labeled as a Herold of slaneesh and it got ravaging claws that get replaced.
The slothful claw doesn't have the special rules to let you do the 8 bonus attacks so this seems like an awful idea.
I think that’s wrong. It says you can use the 2 herald attendants attacks, “make 8 additional attacks using this weapon profile”
The weapon profile is simply replaced by the slothful claws profile and rules. Ergo it would still function the same.
I feel like that needs a FAQ since it could be intentional that they didn't give the model 8 attacks and giving the tentacles "make two additional attacks with this weapon".
Besides, I feel like the Forbidden Gem is better since you can use it for some key character assassination.
Exactly this, the additional attacks are a part of that weapons profile, just in the same way the bonus attack from chainswords are a part of the weapon profile.
I've found that the forbidden gem is amazing as well. Shutting down a characters ability to fight, or alternatively flee from combat is great.
RAW you can replace the Ravaging Claws with the Slothful Claws but you would loose the 8 bonus attacks, and would not be able to attack with the relic as the Heralds have no attack profile. So, it needs an FAQ that will of-course never get done. So, forbidden Gem it is then.
So we now have a way to loose 8 attacks on a model and we can replace the sword of a KoS to make it straight worse with our relics. Guess slaneesh would be proud cause of the self tormenting...
Lack of fly seems to be Slaanesh's biggest weakness right now. The question is, can they compensate for that with their insane infantry-shredding shenanigans? No need to fly past the screen if the screen is dead.
rhavien wrote: So we now have a way to loose 8 attacks on a model and we can replace the sword of a KoS to make it straight worse with our relics. Guess slaneesh would be proud cause of the self tormenting...
I'd argue the Soulstealer relic is less of a downgrade and more of a sidegrade. Namely because healing is a strong ability and horde munching is still an option.
That aside, I feel like it xould have been intentional to keep the Heralds on the Epitome from getting upgraded just because of how strong the model is already. Letting us also stack even better attacks onto the thing might have been broken.
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slave.entity wrote: Lack of fly seems to be Slaanesh's biggest weakness right now. The question is, can they compensate for that with their insane infantry-shredding shenanigans? No need to fly past the screen if the screen is dead.
We can still take Daemon Princes to fly with, but yes, we lack in the ability to just hop overdo screens otherwise.
Hate the models, and their stats aren't that good for their points. I suspect they only still exist because GW has a big stock of them in a warehouse somewhere.
Hate the models, and their stats aren't that good for their points. I suspect they only still exist because GW has a big stock of them in a warehouse somewhere.
Furies are getting new models in warcry it seems and they look awesome
Hate the models, and their stats aren't that good for their points. I suspect they only still exist because GW has a big stock of them in a warehouse somewhere.
Furies are getting new models in warcry it seems and they look awesome
Maybe they'll fix their stats and rules too, but I won't hold my breath.
rhavien wrote: Fellow Slaanesh followers. Is there anything keeping us from giving the Epitome the slothful claws? It's labeled as a Herold of slaneesh and it got ravaging claws that get replaced.
The slothful claw doesn't have the special rules to let you do the 8 bonus attacks so this seems like an awful idea.
I think that’s wrong. It says you can use the 2 herald attendants attacks, “make 8 additional attacks using this weapon profile”
The weapon profile is simply replaced by the slothful claws profile and rules. Ergo it would still function the same.
I feel like that needs a FAQ since it could be intentional that they didn't give the model 8 attacks and giving the tentacles "make two additional attacks with this weapon".
Besides, I feel like the Forbidden Gem is better since you can use it for some key character assassination.
Exactly this, the additional attacks are a part of that weapons profile, just in the same way the bonus attack from chainswords are a part of the weapon profile.
I've found that the forbidden gem is amazing as well. Shutting down a characters ability to fight, or alternatively flee from combat is great.
RAW you can replace the Ravaging Claws with the Slothful Claws but you would loose the 8 bonus attacks, and would not be able to attack with the relic as the Heralds have no attack profile. So, it needs an FAQ that will of-course never get done. So, forbidden Gem it is then.
I think RAI is pretty clear. It's just stuck in the weapons profile for ease of use probably and to separate it from the mirror itsself. Ravaging claws are a standard piece of equipment heralds have, it's listed in the datasheet as the melee weapon along with the coils. The slothful claws just replace the weapon. They probably should have put it in the general rule section - but I think the logic is it pointing to the weapon profile to use... I think they simply wanted to clarify it's specifically for those weapons (and made it nice and printable on the little pamphlet).
Essentially it's just a rule that let's the two heralds on top of it get their normal attacks, just like how every other chariot in the army functions. To assume putting slothful claws on them removes the function of how, essentially, half of our none HQ units function is a little out there. We just haven't run into it as an issue because they have used Piercing Claws instead but the intent is always clear.
I get everyone's point on this... just seems silly to me when the intent is clear. Suppose FAQ is needed at this point. I think this is going to be another one of those "We are confused this was a question" deals. Same issue with people trying to lawyer that Syll'Esske can't use their second attack if they are in base to base contact as it requires the model to move. (Think that's been FAQed at least) ...again, the intent is clear but people are ridiculous with their toy soldiers and trying to gain any advantage, spirit of the game be damned.
ClockworkZion wrote: If intent was clear we wouldn't be having this discussion though.
I suppose. Thankfully my regular wargaming community agrees with me after some discussion so I will be playing it as still getting the 8 attacks with the slothful claws until we get clarification.
A good compromise would perhaps be gaining 4 attacks with the relic and 4 as normal representing one of the heralds using the special claws.
If the RAW doesn't seem to work then best way to play is how is the way that makes most sense, I assume only one of the heralds gets the relic so only one attacks with it.
ClockworkZion wrote: If intent was clear we wouldn't be having this discussion though.
I suppose. Thankfully my regular wargaming community agrees with me after some discussion so I will be playing it as still getting the 8 attacks with the slothful claws until we get clarification.
Well, the other issue with your RAI interpretation is that there are two Heralds who technically only have 4 attacks each; and they obviously can't both take the same relic. It's cool you gaming group lets you play it that way. As I doubt we'll get clarification and if we do it won't be allowed unless they add an attack profile for the Heralds.
Honestly I have to say that I was a bit surprised and then very annoyed when I found that the Infernal Enrapturess is a Herald but not a Psyker. She's this close to being a straight upgrade over a Herald, but instead she feels like a side grade. Her lack of the Locus of Slaanesh is equally odd as a 1 in 6 shot at getting back a model is not a good replacement for buffing Strength for nearby models.
It's almost like they're two different unit options, both meant to provide a different (but still useful) benefit to the army rather than something that is just unequivocally better than another option.
I think she is a mixed bag. She's messing with enemy psykers and has some shooting. But to be honest, a single S8 shot won't change the tide of the battle much. If you are fighting an army that hasn't psykers at all, her perils on doubles is wasted from the start. She also has only 2 attacks and this is what really annoys me. Also I think we are punished, because of slaneesh holy number is 6. GW seems to be thinking that it would be ultra cool if any abilities trigger on 6s when slaneesh is involved.
I really love the model and I've one in my list right now, but I would prefer a little boost or a slight point reduction. Would be cool if she had two songs to play.
I'm a bit out of the loop due to the amount of fun I've been having with Blood Bowl, but what does a decent Nurgle-centric army look like these days? A whole bunch of Plaguebearers/Daemon Princes/Nurglings I assume, but is there anything else? Worth taking the Gnarlmaws and Drones, or just use the battallion on Bloodletters etc instead?
Death guard vehicle/daemon engine allies work well.
Pure nurgle daemons has problems with being too slow and being unable to clear chaff efficiently.
Plaguebearers are the core of the current meta daemon soup lists in quantities of 30, 60, or 90.
Poxbringers are essential for casting miasma.
Nurgle daemon princes and nurglings are good but they are optional and interchangeable with competitive units from other factions.
Drones are not bad but generally outclassed by plaguebearers.
Gnarlmaws are too expensive for what they do unless you're running a silly number of plaguebearers.
Bloodletters are good and are somewhat interchangeable with pink horrors and tzaangors in terms of chaff-clearing ability, though there are definitely meaningful tradeoffs between those three units.
It doesn't make sense to compare bloodletters to drones/gnarlmaws because they do completely different things.
Cool, thanks for the rundown. What I mean is, given that I can only use 3 detachments, is it worth giving one up for a fortification network, or am I better off using that detachment for something killier?
Vomikron Noxis wrote: Cool, thanks for the rundown. What I mean is, given that I can only use 3 detachments, is it worth giving one up for a fortification network, or am I better off using that detachment for something killier?
Having played with a Gnarlmaw...
Not worth it. 4+ Armor is nice, for T1, but not a big deal.
Advance and Charge is great-if there's something in range. There usually isn't, for Plaguebearers. Even with a Scrivener (who I would HEARTILY recommend!) and Instrument, they move 5+2+1+d6 inches before charging 2d6+1. That's 11.5" on average-you have better than even odds of not even being able to ATTEMPT the charge into the enemy DZ.
Nurglings are great, though. Fantastic at tying stuff up, and either they shoot small arms at them (making them last for a LONG time) or they shoot big guns, and then the big guns aren't targeting anything more important.
Disagree that Nurglings are interchangeable, amongst all chaos they’re pretty much a uniquely capable pregame screening/objective grabbing unit.
Gnarlmaw isn’t brilliant in a pure Daemons list but when you add Obliterators and Plagueburst Crawlers to Nurgle soup it’s a game-changer. 0+ saves? Fall back and shoot with plaguespitters?
Fringe benefits include Blight-haulers advancing to try to get their multi-meltas within half range, Defilers double-advancing via Warptime and then making a T1 charge (taking a cheeky shot with their guns on the way - twin heavy flamer might be interesting here), and lucky Plague Drones pulling a T1 charge (budget a couple of re-rolls if you want to make this work), and the rerolls enabling a Master of Possession to cast Incursion and drop a GUO 9” from the enemy on T1.
The Warptime & Advance trick can be pretty interesting with Possessed, as well. Strong potential for enveloping the enemy, and a 1+ save if you lose first turn. DG can bring a Blightbringer for solid advances and some nasty spells. Alternatively, CSM Possessed can benefit from some interesting Dark Apostle prayers and specialist detachment Stratagems.
Nurglings are often MVPs in every list I use that runs them, but there are plenty of list archetypes that don't need them.
I suppose interchangeable isn't exactly the right word, but I don't consider them a core competitive unit like plaguebearers or the different flavors of daemon princes. For example, DG bloat drones can roughly fill the same role in providing you with board control as well as an annoying front line screening unit. There are of course tradeoffs but the point is you can get away with not running Nurglings in a competitive daemons-focused list.
Vomikron Noxis wrote: Cool, thanks for the rundown. What I mean is, given that I can only use 3 detachments, is it worth giving one up for a fortification network, or am I better off using that detachment for something killier?
Having played with a Gnarlmaw...
Not worth it. 4+ Armor is nice, for T1, but not a big deal.
Advance and Charge is great-if there's something in range. There usually isn't, for Plaguebearers. Even with a Scrivener (who I would HEARTILY recommend!) and Instrument, they move 5+2+1+d6 inches before charging 2d6+1. That's 11.5" on average-you have better than even odds of not even being able to ATTEMPT the charge into the enemy DZ.
Nurglings are great, though. Fantastic at tying stuff up, and either they shoot small arms at them (making them last for a LONG time) or they shoot big guns, and then the big guns aren't targeting anything more important.
I have to disagree re the Gnarlmaw. I think its mandatory if you're running 60+ plaguebearers in a mono-codex list. With a scrivener, you might not be in range for T1 charges (or you might be), but you are definitely there for T2, and the ability to fall forward and charge further on T3/4/5. If you start needing detachments for other codexes (Thousand Sons) then maybe don't take one, but even CSM (Obliterator) or Death Guard (plagueburst crawlers) allies benefit greatly from it.
My typical games running 90-120 plaguebearers, I daisy-chain back to the Gnarlmaw (only 1 model needs to be in range to gain advance/fall back + charge) and have strings of plaguebearers over the entire board grabbing objectives and tying the enemy in combat. The tree is MVP and my opponents curse its name.
Vomikron Noxis wrote: Cool, thanks for the rundown. What I mean is, given that I can only use 3 detachments, is it worth giving one up for a fortification network, or am I better off using that detachment for something killier?
Having played with a Gnarlmaw...
Not worth it. 4+ Armor is nice, for T1, but not a big deal.
Advance and Charge is great-if there's something in range. There usually isn't, for Plaguebearers. Even with a Scrivener (who I would HEARTILY recommend!) and Instrument, they move 5+2+1+d6 inches before charging 2d6+1. That's 11.5" on average-you have better than even odds of not even being able to ATTEMPT the charge into the enemy DZ.
Nurglings are great, though. Fantastic at tying stuff up, and either they shoot small arms at them (making them last for a LONG time) or they shoot big guns, and then the big guns aren't targeting anything more important.
I have to disagree re the Gnarlmaw. I think its mandatory if you're running 60+ plaguebearers in a mono-codex list. With a scrivener, you might not be in range for T1 charges (or you might be), but you are definitely there for T2, and the ability to fall forward and charge further on T3/4/5. If you start needing detachments for other codexes (Thousand Sons) then maybe don't take one, but even CSM (Obliterator) or Death Guard (plagueburst crawlers) allies benefit greatly from it.
My typical games running 90-120 plaguebearers, I daisy-chain back to the Gnarlmaw (only 1 model needs to be in range to gain advance/fall back + charge) and have strings of plaguebearers over the entire board grabbing objectives and tying the enemy in combat. The tree is MVP and my opponents curse its name.
See this was my thinking as well actually. I've got three Gnarlmaws so I might give it a shot. What does the rest of your list look like?
Vomikron Noxis wrote: I have to disagree re the Gnarlmaw. I think its mandatory if you're running 60+ plaguebearers in a mono-codex list. With a scrivener, you might not be in range for T1 charges (or you might be), but you are definitely there for T2, and the ability to fall forward and charge further on T3/4/5. If you start needing detachments for other codexes (Thousand Sons) then maybe don't take one, but even CSM (Obliterator) or Death Guard (plagueburst crawlers) allies benefit greatly from it.
My typical games running 90-120 plaguebearers, I daisy-chain back to the Gnarlmaw (only 1 model needs to be in range to gain advance/fall back + charge) and have strings of plaguebearers over the entire board grabbing objectives and tying the enemy in combat. The tree is MVP and my opponents curse its name.
See this was my thinking as well actually. I've got three Gnarlmaws so I might give it a shot. What does the rest of your list look like?
I wouldn't go 3 Gnarlmaws - With the updated points cost 1 is enough and doesn't take too much away from the list.
The list is basically:
---This part is the core of the list
Gnarlmaw
Poxbringer
3x 30 Plaguebearers
Khorne Prince (Skullreaver)
Sloppity Bilepiper
Spoilpox
30 Bloodletters
--- the half below you can swap out to suit your needs
Nurgle Prince
Nurgle Prince
30 Plaguebearers
10 Brimstones
Its... not a list to make friends with. But I've had some very good competitive success with it. With the changeable part you can go different supporting characters, more bloodletters, even more plaguebearers, or pink horrors with a herald.
I wouldn't go 3 Gnarlmaws - With the updated points cost 1 is enough and doesn't take too much away from the list.
The list is basically:
---This part is the core of the list
Gnarlmaw
Poxbringer
3x 30 Plaguebearers
Khorne Prince (Skullreaver)
Sloppity Bilepiper
Spoilpox
30 Bloodletters
--- the half below you can swap out to suit your needs
Nurgle Prince
Nurgle Prince
30 Plaguebearers
10 Brimstones
Its... not a list to make friends with. But I've had some very good competitive success with it. With the changeable part you can go different supporting characters, more bloodletters, even more plaguebearers, or pink horrors with a herald.
Ouch, looks pretty brutal! How do you organise it? The whole Force Organisation chart is a bit confusing to me these days as I haven't yet touched 8th Edition at all, so any pointers would be much appreciated!
Vomikron Noxis wrote: Cool, thanks for the rundown. What I mean is, given that I can only use 3 detachments, is it worth giving one up for a fortification network, or am I better off using that detachment for something killier?
Having played with a Gnarlmaw...
Not worth it. 4+ Armor is nice, for T1, but not a big deal.
Advance and Charge is great-if there's something in range. There usually isn't, for Plaguebearers. Even with a Scrivener (who I would HEARTILY recommend!) and Instrument, they move 5+2+1+d6 inches before charging 2d6+1. That's 11.5" on average-you have better than even odds of not even being able to ATTEMPT the charge into the enemy DZ.
Nurglings are great, though. Fantastic at tying stuff up, and either they shoot small arms at them (making them last for a LONG time) or they shoot big guns, and then the big guns aren't targeting anything more important.
I have to disagree re the Gnarlmaw. I think its mandatory if you're running 60+ plaguebearers in a mono-codex list. With a scrivener, you might not be in range for T1 charges (or you might be), but you are definitely there for T2, and the ability to fall forward and charge further on T3/4/5. If you start needing detachments for other codexes (Thousand Sons) then maybe don't take one, but even CSM (Obliterator) or Death Guard (plagueburst crawlers) allies benefit greatly from it.
My typical games running 90-120 plaguebearers, I daisy-chain back to the Gnarlmaw (only 1 model needs to be in range to gain advance/fall back + charge) and have strings of plaguebearers over the entire board grabbing objectives and tying the enemy in combat. The tree is MVP and my opponents curse its name.
For a T1 charge, assuming your opponent is on the edge of their DZ, you need to cross 24".
You move 9" (5"+2" from Scrivener+1" from Advance Instrument+1" from Charge Instrument) base, so you need 15" on 3d6. That's not even a 10% chance base.
Vomikron Noxis wrote: Cool, thanks for the rundown. What I mean is, given that I can only use 3 detachments, is it worth giving one up for a fortification network, or am I better off using that detachment for something killier?
Having played with a Gnarlmaw...
Not worth it. 4+ Armor is nice, for T1, but not a big deal.
Advance and Charge is great-if there's something in range. There usually isn't, for Plaguebearers. Even with a Scrivener (who I would HEARTILY recommend!) and Instrument, they move 5+2+1+d6 inches before charging 2d6+1. That's 11.5" on average-you have better than even odds of not even being able to ATTEMPT the charge into the enemy DZ.
Nurglings are great, though. Fantastic at tying stuff up, and either they shoot small arms at them (making them last for a LONG time) or they shoot big guns, and then the big guns aren't targeting anything more important.
I have to disagree re the Gnarlmaw. I think its mandatory if you're running 60+ plaguebearers in a mono-codex list. With a scrivener, you might not be in range for T1 charges (or you might be), but you are definitely there for T2, and the ability to fall forward and charge further on T3/4/5. If you start needing detachments for other codexes (Thousand Sons) then maybe don't take one, but even CSM (Obliterator) or Death Guard (plagueburst crawlers) allies benefit greatly from it.
My typical games running 90-120 plaguebearers, I daisy-chain back to the Gnarlmaw (only 1 model needs to be in range to gain advance/fall back + charge) and have strings of plaguebearers over the entire board grabbing objectives and tying the enemy in combat. The tree is MVP and my opponents curse its name.
For a T1 charge, assuming your opponent is on the edge of their DZ, you need to cross 24".
You move 9" (5"+2" from Scrivener+1" from Advance Instrument+1" from Charge Instrument) base, so you need 15" on 3d6. That's not even a 10% chance base.
I'm aware that it is not likely to make a first turn charge against something 24" away. But using the tree means guaranteed T2 charge whereas without the tree its a maybe T3. And that's not counting that you can then fall back and charge deeper in to their lines on subsequent turns.
The way to use plaguebearers is to take board control and tie up (but not necessarily kill) threats. The more things I can boop or tri-point in combat means less incoming damage. If plaguebearers can be charging to eat overwatch at the same time as bloodletters I'm much more likely for the Khorne to survive and get my real damage in. And the faster they are the better they can escort the daemon princes...
Plus... even though a 24" charge is unlikely, across 4 units and with rerolls, that 10% is still a hell of a lot better than 0%. Plus half the deployment types have you closer than 24" - that gives you a 74% chance of making an 18" charge on the 'pointy' deployments. Or the enemy might have scouts, or you might have bottom of first and they think they're safe at 18"...
All I can say is that from extensive tournament experience, if I'm taking more than one unit of Nurgle daemons, the tree is an auto-include for me.
Nurglings are amazing and easily underestimated.
I had loads of them sitting on objectives all round the board, opponent spent a crap ton of firepower to try and shift them to no real avail.
Having a 5+ and a 5++ against most damage is kinda huge on a cheap four wound model.
Even at T2 people constantly underestimate how difficult they are to clear off.
Some especially daft people are arguing it in a nonsensical manner, and until we get official confirmation from GW we can't be 100% sure. But the reasonable interpretation of his rules is that you MAY make a consolidation move, and then whether you did or not, you attack again with him.
So make a 0" consolation move? Gw is on record saying thats a legal option with other moves of the same type (remember the silly arguments about russes a few years ago? Or dark angels not moving but advancing to get jinx?). Rules are after you swing you can consolidate. Your allowed to move any direction up to 3" as long as you move towards the closest enemy unit. If your base to base you make a 0" consolidation move, now you can swing again.
Its like saying because your tau you are skipping the psycic phase. You cant do that even if you have no psychic powers to cast, the phase still happens just nothing happened during it. Same with the move. It says you may make the move, so as long as you declare your making the move it doesnt matter if you dont go anywhere, the move still happenes and now you can swing again.
Heh, that sucks. I hope the person arguing that was set straight, there is nothing in the rules saying what the distance has to be minimum, just a maximum and a direction.
"You cant do that!"
Why?
"You have to move at least 1'' to count as consolidating "
Where does it say that?
"It doesnt, but if you do that I am gonna lose and that will crush what little ego i have left!"
Hello everybody - I'm new and I'm not sure if this is the best place to put these question.
I'm trying to make a 500pt and 1000pt list but I have no idea how I should even build my troops. I feel like right now I can't even go to my game store because I don't have an army up and running. I just want to make an army list that is legal to help me learn the game and hopefully not get blown off the table turn 1.
I own:
Wrath and Rapture
Start Collecting Daemons of Khorne
Daemon Prince
1 box of Blood letters
Specific questions:
1) Should I try making a Khorne Battalion with 3 10-man blood letters? Should I even worry about detachments at all at these point levels?
2) When I build my blood letters, should I make each box with one blood reaper, horn, and banner? Or should I just try to make one 30-man unit for a bomb?
3) Would it be useful to mix the Slaanesh and Khorne stuff in the list?
4) What would be the best way to expand this army? Continue dipping into Khorne/Slaanesh or start mixing in Nurgle/Tzeentch?
actually i would mix nurgle/slaanesh honestly, a fast and hard hitting SL battalion and a Nurgle battalion for objective control, i just tried an experimental list last sunday and i got 5th in a 25 men tournament, just tied 1 match and won two.
SL flying Dp, about 90 demonettes 3+4 fiends Syll'eeske the masque, Korne Dp sloppity poxbringer 30 plaguebearers and 2x3 nurglings, im sure it can be build better this is just my 1st attempt with slaanesh. I played an almost mirror match and i tied then i met an ork and i won 20-0 then another close mirror (but he had no slaanesh) and i won 15-5
The new daemon units and models are awesome. Hopefully soon we'll get plastic versions of the Blue Scribes and the dedicated Daemon Prince of Nurgle. Personally, I think to finish up the daemon line, I would love to see dedicated princes for Khorne and Tzeentch, seeing that the two other gods have already have their own. A Phokulozortis model would be sick. Also, if possible, I'd like to see the Khornate phenomena in AoS given 40K rules, like the Slaaneshi spells. Tzeentch and Nurgle, especially Tzeentch, should also have some as well. Then I think that the line would be complete and an updated codex be released.
This is a Slaanesh Patrol Detachment and all the models in it gain the Slaanesh Loci. If you give the Daemonettes and Seekers an Instrument and Icon each (I would) it comes to 406pts.
This is a Khorne Patrol Detachment and all the models in it get the Khorne Locus. Alternatively, you could run it as a Khorne Battalion with 3x10 Bloodletters and gain +5CP. Assuming again that you take Icons and Instruments where you can - and take a Gore Hound - this adds up to 1,152pts as a Patrol and 1,202pts as a Battalion.
HQ - Daemon Prince
This can be given any Alignment and plugged into any of the above.
All in all, you have models worth a max. of 1,738pts (with a Khorne Patrol, 1,788pts with a Battalion). How you expand is your call. I'd recommend getting some claws on the tabletop and seeing what you like. Most people will let you proxy models so I don't think it'll be a problem if you want to try Plaguebearers or Horrors out.
I'm all about Slaanesh, so obviously I'm going to suggest you go for a pro-pain and pro-pain accessories approach.
Great thank you! I will stick with patrol detachments for now. Seems like they will be easier to wrap my head around until I can get some games in and know what I want to do.
ArcaneHorror wrote: The new daemon units and models are awesome. Hopefully soon we'll get plastic versions of the Blue Scribes and the dedicated Daemon Prince of Nurgle. Personally, I think to finish up the daemon line, I would love to see dedicated princes for Khorne and Tzeentch, seeing that the two other gods have already have their own. A Phokulozortis model would be sick. Also, if possible, I'd like to see the Khornate phenomena in AoS given 40K rules, like the Slaaneshi spells. Tzeentch and Nurgle, especially Tzeentch, should also have some as well. Then I think that the line would be complete and an updated codex be released.
So, I'm just about to finish painting my An'Grrath and I'm gonna use it this weekend in a casual game. I was curious about what tactics I should take. Should I DS him or take advantage of his incredible move speed? I'll be using a pure Khorne Daemons army.
chimeara wrote: So, I'm just about to finish painting my An'Grrath and I'm gonna use it this weekend in a casual game. I was curious about what tactics I should take. Should I DS him or take advantage of his incredible move speed? I'll be using a pure Khorne Daemons army.
An'Grrath is a beastly monster and great fun to play :-)
I'd definitely start him on the table, with a decent roll he can make a first turn charge and have a nearly automatic second turn one. Deep striking him in has the problem of the opponent choosing what you attack (hes such a big model to place down) and failing a 9" charge.
Always be prepared to give him the +1 save strat.to save him from enemy big guns.
Make sure you have some anti infantry firepower to clear out screens (pink horrors do it well but skull cannons could also work) and some anti-infantry assault element to stop him getting bogged down in chaff.
He's likely to draw alot of attention so normal bloodthirsters might be able to survive long enough to reach combat if you're lucky :-)
Syll'Esske can attack twice even if unable to move in consolidation. So big derp to people trying to argue otherwise. You can also attack the SAME target you targetted first. Double derp for people arguing otherwise.
Sadly I was totally wrong about the Slothful Claws relic for the contorted epitome. :( sad.... but understandable. Derp for me. lol
Also If a model with a minimum Move characteristic wishes
to Fall Back whilst within 6" of a Contorted Epitome fails its LD roll its destroyed. The Flyer must also declare it will hover before its makes the LD roll.
did someone try Syll'esske and epitome? im thinking about a list running both of them for my next national league tournament in about 3 weeks, i would like some feedbacks thx
I have a new start collecting Slaanesh and I plan on getting 2 more, I think Hellflayers are the best thing to make but what is everyone elses thoughts? I plan on running them as a fairly cheap but hard hitting line breaker for my Khorne Daemons to charge up after whilst my tzeentch troubleshoots
blackmage wrote: did someone try Syll'esske and epitome? im thinking about a list running both of them for my next national league tournament in about 3 weeks, i would like some feedbacks thx
Syll'esske is the bees knees. If you're bringing a lot of Daemonettes they are an auto-include. Just depends on your list, I really believe Syll'esske is designed to be in the middle of hordes of Daemonettes.
The Epitome is an auto-include for me anymore as well... but not just because it is so good on its own (which it is). It can follow the initial engagement forces no matter their speed. If you spam chariots, just plop an epitome with them and you have your loci and herald aura following at the same speed.
If you prefer Fiends, Seekers or even multiple KOS, give the epitome warlord and give it the celerity of slaanesh. Suddenly it's moving 15" and keeping up with Seekers, Fiends, and KOS. They're all receiving the buffs above with no threat of outpacing the auras. There was no herald that could keep up with Fiends and Seekers previously, so it's pretty crazy. I think it makes Seekers a bit more worth considering.
I have a new start collecting Slaanesh and I plan on getting 2 more, I think Hellflayers are the best thing to make but what is everyone elses thoughts? I plan on running them as a fairly cheap but hard hitting line breaker for my Khorne Daemons to charge up after whilst my tzeentch troubleshoots
After playing a lot of mono-slaanesh I have fallen into favoring the Exalted Seeker Chariot. It has the wounds to deal with some punishment and stick around, particularly against mass bolter fire with it's 4+ base save. Yes it degrades but it is cheap and people look at it and want to shoot them. They are so cheap I tend to bring 3 when I do bring them, to really put the pressure on. Put an Epitome with them and they won't be able to be ignored IMO.
The Hellflayers are the next best option, they just die to mass small arms fire more easily or one lucky lascannon shot, where you're only saving 10 points over taking the Exalted chariot. I have also found the axle attack to be really hit or miss with the D6 attacks on it. Rolling that 1 makes it feel particularly useless, whereas with the Exalted you are always getting the 8 Seeker attacks and if your opponent doesn't kill/degrade the chariot, another 8 from the daemonettes riding it.
I built five Hellflayers (pre-RoT, natch) and I rarely leave home without all five.
I use Seekers and Fiends as my first-wave, Chariots are second-wave. Seekers eat Overwatch, Fiends pin them in place, Chariots then help finish them off. Daemonettes waltz along T3 and take Objectives*.
for obj control i use Nurgle detach with 28Pb and 2x3 nurglings bases, so i use Sl only for assault, of course demonettes can hold if needed they are almost 90 in my list.
nothing to say about, im working too on mono SL build, depend where i go to play and how i expect to perform with them, i like SL and now im happy that's a viable choice.
In continuation of the topic how has players experience been with the contorted epitome been so far? I've been thinking of bringing one in a chaos soup list so I'm curious how people have found it in practice.
it's one of best demon choice, fast hit hard, psyonic and hinder fall back, +1 str to SL demons, in you play a large SL based army it is a must include.
buddha wrote: In continuation of the topic how has players experience been with the contorted epitome been so far? I've been thinking of bringing one in a chaos soup list so I'm curious how people have found it in practice.
I have found them to be awesome and highly flexible. I am not sure how they would do in a soup list (I play mono Slaanesh) but they are excellent as the HQ choice for a slaanesh detachment. They're basically a better Daemon Prince, minus the ability to fly. But locking people in combat, bonuses to casting/denying, the +1 strength aura, and the Loci for Slaanesh Daemons makes up for it.
I will say that the epitome will be better if you're planning to bring chariots, fiends or seekers. If you're using Daemonettes I would recommend Syll'Esske if you can eek out the extra points.
i m testing both in an "almost" mono slaanesh build, i just use some nurgle for obj control, Slaanesh is wasted to sit on objective and it's not durable enough for the task.
Slaanesh is one of the forces that i feel really NEEDS to be mono, at least a single detachment of it, because for a force that has no guns and must rely on cc advance and charge is soooo important. Khorne likes its reroll charges but its not a must. Tzeentches loci is a bad joke. Nurgles also doesnt do much in the deamon codex in the grand scheme of things, but its nice when it happens.
But slaanesh? Speed is the name of the game and getting into cc with your opponent t2 with a large portion of your force is very important. Even more so when you consider demonettes are very good at killing chaff in cc.
yes agree, i play a mono SL battalion with anything i need for fast CaC (demonettes, Dp, Syll'esske, epitome and fiends), then the Nurgle battalion or a supreme command with 2 extra Dp's
So, I played in my first tournament ever a few weeks ago (a doubles tournament, my buddy brought tzeentch Daemons and Magnus). We went in with the goal of not losing every game and somehow "accidentally" ended up at the finalists table in our first tournament ever! We got slaughtered in the final game but we had a ton of fun.
I am reinvigorated and finding I actually enjoyed tournaments, we have decided to join a larger 1v1 RTT. It will be much larger so I guess I can expect some stiffer competition.
Maintaining the attitude of having as much fun as possible and hopefully not losing EVERY game, I have developed two lists. Yes, I play mono-Slaanesh and I will be sticking with that. I am sure it is not 100% competitive but any ideas would be helpful and which list you think would work best! Along with what you think of my philosophies.
List 1:
Spoiler:
This first list is based around the concept of everything moving forward as fast as possible. Essentially... WHO RUNS COCAINE TOWN? With the KOS moving 14", I didn't want them outpacing everything. So this is what I came up with. Everything, minus the Daemonette CP batteries will move at 14"+D6"+2D6 Charge and I have enough characters to have everything advance and charge.
The Contorted Epitome: Cacophonic Choir, Celerity of Slaanesh, Hysterical Frenzy, Warlord
+ Fast Attack +
Hellflayer
Seekers: Daemonic Icon, Heartseeker, Instrument of Chaos, 11x Seeker
Seekers: Daemonic Icon, Heartseeker, Instrument of Chaos, 11x Seeker
++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Daemons) ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Chaos Allegiance: Slaanesh
+ HQ +
Keeper of Secrets: Living whip, Pavane of Slaanesh, Phantasmagoria
+ Elites +
Fiends: Blissbringer, 2x Fiend
Fiends: Blissbringer, 2x Fiend
Fiends: Blissbringer, 2x Fiend
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Chaos Allegiance: Slaanesh
+ HQ +
Keeper of Secrets: Delightful Agonies, Sinistrous hand, Soulstealer, Symphony of Pain
Shalaxi Helbane: Delightful Agonies, Shining aegis, Symphony of Pain
+ Troops +
Daemonettes: Alluress, 9x Daemonette
Daemonettes: Alluress, 9x Daemonette
Daemonettes: Alluress, 9x Daemonette
List 2:
Spoiler:
This list is centered around still moving quickly, as is Slaanesh's thing... but with a mass of bodies/chariots and no discernible, single biggest threat. The chariots will provide the first initial threat/wave but the Daemonettes are my bread and butter. Hopefully they shoot at the chariots in their faces first. Synergized with Syll'esske, yadda yadda.
Your philosophy is a good one I think. Same as me if I would go to a tournament.
I like your second list better but think I would combine the two lists like something.
Battalion
KoS KoS Epitome
2x 10 demonettes
1x 30 demonettes
2x2 fiends
Outrider
Epitome
Syll’esske
Seekers
Seekers
Chariot of some sort
Not sure of the points, I’m typing on my phone so.
And take my “advice” with some salt as I do not play competitive (yet) and only got a small battalion worth of Slaanesh daemons. Main Tzeentch with khorne but getting more and more of slaanesh at the time.
My experience with slaanesh in tournaments is you want full speed from the start and severe target saturation. From what models you have posted in your lists this is what i would do.
Gives you 19 cp, 6 hqs to put out advance and charge auras, lots of fast moving targets, and a lot of high priority targets that your opponent just wont be able to deal with in 1 turn.
High priority targets are fiends, keepers of secrets, and those chariots.
And 19 cp means you have no issues with command points. Go ahead and splurge on those strats, if you burn through 19 cp in 2 turns something went really wrong (or really right).
Excommunicatus wrote: I'm ill-equipped to comment, sorry, but wondered if you could tell me the dimensions of the Contorted Epitome?
I'm working on an alt. version and want it to be roughly the right size.
The actual mirror on the Epitome is 6 cm tall by itself. Fully assembled from the base to the top of the Slaanesh symbol its 8.6 cm, with another 4 mm if you include the base.
Azuza001 wrote: My experience with slaanesh in tournaments is you want full speed from the start and severe target saturation. From what models you have posted in your lists this is what i would do.
Gives you 19 cp, 6 hqs to put out advance and charge auras, lots of fast moving targets, and a lot of high priority targets that your opponent just wont be able to deal with in 1 turn.
High priority targets are fiends, keepers of secrets, and those chariots.
And 19 cp means you have no issues with command points. Go ahead and splurge on those strats, if you burn through 19 cp in 2 turns something went really wrong (or really right).
Burning through 19 cp in two turns sounds rather excessive to me.
Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]: Daemonic axe, Khorne, Skullreaver, Wings
Herald of Slaanesh on Steed [4 PL, 82pts]: Pavane of Slaanesh
+ Troops +
Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms
Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms
Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms
++ Total: [107 PL, -1CP, 1,995pts] ++ [spoiler]
double battalion 13CP nurglings for obj control, and a quick hard hitting assault force (chariots+fiends), maybe i could go full SL, but Slaanesh isn't good for obj control and i might have only 9cp
Magnus eat some bullets and preserve my Slaanesh force, fiends and chariot advance quick with him (if he survive), i tried a similar strategy with nurgle trying to preserve plaguebearers and worked fine
Azuza001 wrote: My experience with slaanesh in tournaments is you want full speed from the start and severe target saturation. From what models you have posted in your lists this is what i would do.
Gives you 19 cp, 6 hqs to put out advance and charge auras, lots of fast moving targets, and a lot of high priority targets that your opponent just wont be able to deal with in 1 turn.
High priority targets are fiends, keepers of secrets, and those chariots.
And 19 cp means you have no issues with command points. Go ahead and splurge on those strats, if you burn through 19 cp in 2 turns something went really wrong (or really right).
Is there a reason for taking ritual knives on the two KOS?
Or is this just a case of you quickly throwing the list together on BS to show what you generally use?
Excommunicatus wrote: I'm ill-equipped to comment, sorry, but wondered if you could tell me the dimensions of the Contorted Epitome?
I'm working on an alt. version and want it to be roughly the right size.
The actual mirror on the Epitome is 6 cm tall by itself. Fully assembled from the base to the top of the Slaanesh symbol its 8.6 cm, with another 4 mm if you include the base.
Spasibo bolshoye, merci beaucoup, grazie mille, ta muchly.
chimeara wrote: So, I'm just about to finish painting my An'Grrath and I'm gonna use it this weekend in a casual game. I was curious about what tactics I should take. Should I DS him or take advantage of his incredible move speed? I'll be using a pure Khorne Daemons army.
An'Grrath is a beastly monster and great fun to play :-)
I'd definitely start him on the table, with a decent roll he can make a first turn charge and have a nearly automatic second turn one. Deep striking him in has the problem of the opponent choosing what you attack (hes such a big model to place down) and failing a 9" charge.
Always be prepared to give him the +1 save strat.to save him from enemy big guns.
Make sure you have some anti infantry firepower to clear out screens (pink horrors do it well but skull cannons could also work) and some anti-infantry assault element to stop him getting bogged down in chaff.
He's likely to draw alot of attention so normal bloodthirsters might be able to survive long enough to reach combat if you're lucky :-)
You can no longer give him or any daemon lords Warp Surge because it caps at 4++ as a result of the FAQ which was aimed at Impossible Robe but also impacted other units. Which is why I don't use Anggrath in games anymore.
Azuza001 wrote: My experience with slaanesh in tournaments is you want full speed from the start and severe target saturation. From what models you have posted in your lists this is what i would do.
Gives you 19 cp, 6 hqs to put out advance and charge auras, lots of fast moving targets, and a lot of high priority targets that your opponent just wont be able to deal with in 1 turn.
High priority targets are fiends, keepers of secrets, and those chariots.
And 19 cp means you have no issues with command points. Go ahead and splurge on those strats, if you burn through 19 cp in 2 turns something went really wrong (or really right).
Is there a reason for taking ritual knives on the two KOS?
Or is this just a case of you quickly throwing the list together on BS to show what you generally use?
Just thrown together, a general idea that can me modified to a persons personal tastes. Thats why there are no relics or warlord picked or spells.
Myself I don't use the keeper of secrets, when i run greater daemons i run 2 batallions and a supreme command. Looks like this...
Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]: Daemonic axe, Khorne, Skullreaver, Wings
Herald of Slaanesh on Steed [4 PL, 82pts]: Pavane of Slaanesh
+ Troops +
Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms
Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms
Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms
++ Total: [107 PL, -1CP, 1,995pts] ++ [spoiler]
double battalion 13CP nurglings for obj control, and a quick hard hitting assault force (chariots+fiends), maybe i could go full SL, but Slaanesh isn't good for obj control and i might have only 9cp
Magnus eat some bullets and preserve my Slaanesh force, fiends and chariot advance quick with him (if he survive), i tried a similar strategy with nurgle trying to preserve plaguebearers and worked fine
This list seems like a trap - where if you go first and do really well its an easy nod to all the parts working - but to go second against a heavy gunline / someone who pops relic of lost acadia etc and unloads with a ton of reroll hits / wounds you will probably lose magnus and a chunk of those daemonettes. Hoping for the best though.
Are there certain mixes with the contorted epitome and the new Slan DP that work outside of heavy mono=daemon slan builds? Even soup or as a hard hitting piece of a soup list? I couldn't figure it out - I love the new models but can't figure out exactly the role the new Slan DP plays in any given list that isn't mono-Slan.
Are there certain mixes with the contorted epitome and the new Slan DP that work outside of heavy mono=daemon slan builds? Even soup or as a hard hitting piece of a soup list? I couldn't figure it out - I love the new models but can't figure out exactly the role the new Slan DP plays in any given list that isn't mono-Slan.
Of course there are mixes. For example, any daemon unit from CSM codex, with the mark of slaanesh, would benefit from the S+1 buff from the epitome. They could also advance and charge, if a herald of slaanesh is within range. And they would re-roll 1s to hit if they are within range of sylleske.
Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]: Daemonic axe, Khorne, Skullreaver, Wings
Herald of Slaanesh on Steed [4 PL, 82pts]: Pavane of Slaanesh
+ Troops +
Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms
Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms
Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms
++ Total: [107 PL, -1CP, 1,995pts] ++ [spoiler]
double battalion 13CP nurglings for obj control, and a quick hard hitting assault force (chariots+fiends), maybe i could go full SL, but Slaanesh isn't good for obj control and i might have only 9cp
Magnus eat some bullets and preserve my Slaanesh force, fiends and chariot advance quick with him (if he survive), i tried a similar strategy with nurgle trying to preserve plaguebearers and worked fine
This list seems like a trap - where if you go first and do really well its an easy nod to all the parts working - but to go second against a heavy gunline / someone who pops relic of lost acadia etc and unloads with a ton of reroll hits / wounds you will probably lose magnus and a chunk of those daemonettes. Hoping for the best though.
Are there certain mixes with the contorted epitome and the new Slan DP that work outside of heavy mono=daemon slan builds? Even soup or as a hard hitting piece of a soup list? I couldn't figure it out - I love the new models but can't figure out exactly the role the new Slan DP plays in any given list that isn't mono-Slan.
that's right but is the role Magnus has in that list, eat bullets, i dont really care if he die turn 1 (and not happen anytime anyway) the rest of list charge turn 1-2 and then damage i deliver is high, with every mono slaanes list you play, you need bargain a big treath to preserve your troops, it s not Nurgle. A gallant is another decent option, more wounds and T compared to Magnus good CaC, another threat you cant often ignore, im testing both versions and they have potential, a good alternative is play a pair of KoS but spend 200+ bucks isn't in my plans at the moment. 3 chariots 8 fiends epitome and magnus/renegade knight is a decent "early" target saturation, im sure you can do better but sadly slaanesh is not comparable to Nurgle about efficiency, nurgle remain the way for very competitive demons
Are there certain mixes with the contorted epitome and the new Slan DP that work outside of heavy mono=daemon slan builds? Even soup or as a hard hitting piece of a soup list? I couldn't figure it out - I love the new models but can't figure out exactly the role the new Slan DP plays in any given list that isn't mono-Slan.
Of course there are mixes. For example, any daemon unit from CSM codex, with the mark of slaanesh, would benefit from the S+1 buff from the epitome. They could also advance and charge, if a herald of slaanesh is within range. And they would re-roll 1s to hit if they are within range of sylleske.
The only thing cooler than a bunch of DPs & Fiends advancing & charging a gunline on T1 is them being joined by a bunch of Maulerfiends & a Warptimed Defiler or Possessed horde & a Murder Sword Steed Lord
(Also don’t forget the Locus of Advance + charge is universal to Dos Characters)
chimeara wrote: So, I'm just about to finish painting my An'Grrath and I'm gonna use it this weekend in a casual game. I was curious about what tactics I should take. Should I DS him or take advantage of his incredible move speed? I'll be using a pure Khorne Daemons army.
An'Grrath is a beastly monster and great fun to play :-)
I'd definitely start him on the table, with a decent roll he can make a first turn charge and have a nearly automatic second turn one. Deep striking him in has the problem of the opponent choosing what you attack (hes such a big model to place down) and failing a 9" charge.
Always be prepared to give him the +1 save strat.to save him from enemy big guns.
Make sure you have some anti infantry firepower to clear out screens (pink horrors do it well but skull cannons could also work) and some anti-infantry assault element to stop him getting bogged down in chaff.
He's likely to draw alot of attention so normal bloodthirsters might be able to survive long enough to reach combat if you're lucky :-)
You can no longer give him or any daemon lords Warp Surge because it caps at 4++ as a result of the FAQ which was aimed at Impossible Robe but also impacted other units. Which is why I don't use Anggrath in games anymore.
Wait, so the tactic of giving a Lord of Change both Incorporeal Form and the Impossible Robe to make it very difficult to it can't be done anymore?
As far as my most recent army list which I'm still putting together (I haven't even assembled all of the models) involves this: One battalion of World Eaters with the Khorne mark including a unit of berserkers, one battalion of Death Guard, and one battalion of Khorne daemons including three units of bloodletters, one or two bloodmasters, and Skulltaker. I plan to deepstrike the daemon battalion as early as possible. To anyone here, does this general concept for an army seem valid? Also, I'm thinking of adding a Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought to my army (not sure to which battalion) and I'm up in the air if I want to give it butcher cannons or soul burners. I know that the cannons have great range and firepower, but that in some ways, the soul burners are more powerful. Which one would probably be better, and which CSM battalion do you think I should put it and my Helbrute in?
I have been wanting to expand into nurgle/DG but have been trouble finding a list that looked fun to me. I came across this one below that seemed cool, I am just having trouble figuring out how it works. What do the termies do? Are they deepstrike? Center field control? What about buff order, or strats that are pivotal to making the list work? Anyone with experience on a similar list that can shed some light?
Thank you to everyone who made suggestions to my lists. I’m still pondering over the feedback. I think I disagree with needing a lot of CP as Slaanesh... our CP abilities are cheap and only need enough CP for two turns.
I have come up with a question though about Shalaxi.
Shalaxi’s Monarch Of The Host rule allows a 6” pile in and heroic intervention towards the nearest enemy character.
I am interpreting this as allowing her to make a 6” heroic intervention as long as I am moving closer to a character, even if it’s on the other side of the board. It doesn’t stipulate that I target a character/make contact, just that I move closer. This could allow me to heroically Charge units along the way/in the way... long as I’m closer.
Example: Guardsmen chaff 5” away with a character 12” behind them giving orders. Even though the character is 17” away, Shalaxi can declare a 6” heroic intervention into the guardsmen because she will end her heroic intervention closer to the character.
Example: Guardsmen chaff 5” away with a character 12” behind them giving orders. Even though the character is 17” away, Shalaxi can declare a 6” heroic intervention into the guardsmen because she will end her heroic intervention closer to the character.
I think I see the flaw in this plan... someone pointed out to me that Shalaxi still is under the 3" declaration rule, not a 6" declaration.
Everything else applies though I guess. Just a little * for remembering to having to declare within the 3" but can actually move 6" long as it is closer to a character. Weird.
brought today at ETC tournament a slaanesh list.... really a glass cannon, won 13-7 with orks won 16-4 with Tyr and draw 10-10 with Tau (but if game would go on 1 more turn i would lost 5-15). If you reallu want a competitive demons list you must stay into nurgle builds (90+ pb's), at least at medium+ level. GW dont know how make SL competitive.
How effective could a Lord of Change/Kairos Fateweaver be in leading a battalion of Tzaangors (possibly including Enlightened, Skyfires, and a Shaman) alongside an Exalted Sorcerer? I know that the units besides to LOC aren't daemons, but I want that to know if their Tzeentch allegiance would do be worth it for some extra buffs.
if you plan to bring a CM into a whole infantry based list, get ready to lost it almost every game in 1-2 turns, you need a plan B, you cant rely on it to pull off games.
blackmage wrote: brought today at ETC tournament a slaanesh list.... really a glass cannon, won 13-7 with orks won 16-4 with Tyr and draw 10-10 with Tau (but if game would go on 1 more turn i would lost 5-15). If you reallu want a competitive demons list you must stay into nurgle builds (90+ pb's), at least at medium+ level. GW dont know how make SL competitive.
Mind sharing your list? I am still assembling my slaanesh force
blackmage wrote: if you plan to bring a CM into a whole infantry based list, get ready to lost it almost every game in 1-2 turns, you need a plan B, you cant rely on it to pull off games.
What do you mean by CM? I put my mouse over it and all I got was Cult Mechanicus.
blackmage wrote: brought today at ETC tournament a slaanesh list.... really a glass cannon, won 13-7 with orks won 16-4 with Tyr and draw 10-10 with Tau (but if game would go on 1 more turn i would lost 5-15). If you reallu want a competitive demons list you must stay into nurgle builds (90+ pb's), at least at medium+ level. GW dont know how make SL competitive.
Mind sharing your list? I am still assembling my slaanesh force
is totally a test list so take it like grain of salt, it can work good, isn't easy to play and punish bad movements/decisions, but can reward, im sure you can bo better with SL, this list is made for ETC kind of tournament.
Hi, i’ve been away from the forums a bit. Just ordered a a Keeper of Secrets and was wondering how are people tooling him.
Any help would be great. Thanks.
elgermen wrote: Hi, i’ve been away from the forums a bit. Just ordered a a Keeper of Secrets and was wondering how are people tooling him.
Any help would be great. Thanks.
For the regular Keeper, especially if you're only running one, I think it's a safe bet to equip the Sinostrous Hand or however you spell it. A little bit of healing or a lot when combined with the Soul Stealer. Alternatively the whip is good for extra attacks, hitting flyers. The shield isn't great but can be OK to save a psychic power use on another unit (delightful agonies) and the ritual blade is agreed upon to be terrible/useless.
ThePie wrote: Been out of the loop for a while, did GW ever FAQ the horror smite rule to not increase smite difficulty or is it still a worthless rule horrors have?
Still worthless for most cases. The only time I would smite with horrirs is if a) Everyone else has cast a power and there is a chance for it to go off, or b) If I need to kill some Brimstones in order to try for a 1 on morale.
ThePie wrote: Been out of the loop for a while, did GW ever FAQ the horror smite rule to not increase smite difficulty or is it still a worthless rule horrors have?
Still worthless for most cases. The only time I would smite with horrirs is if a) Everyone else has cast a power and there is a chance for it to go off, or b) If I need to kill some Brimstones in order to try for a 1 on morale.
Why is it worthless ? You have to roll a 5 for the first smite, and a 6 for the second smite. It doesnt happen every time, but its certainly possible. I once managed to do 6 MW with two units of pinks.
ThePie wrote: Been out of the loop for a while, did GW ever FAQ the horror smite rule to not increase smite difficulty or is it still a worthless rule horrors have?
Still worthless for most cases. The only time I would smite with horrirs is if a) Everyone else has cast a power and there is a chance for it to go off, or b) If I need to kill some Brimstones in order to try for a 1 on morale.
Why is it worthless ? You have to roll a 5 for the first smite, and a 6 for the second smite. It doesnt happen every time, but its certainly possible. I once managed to do 6 MW with two units of pinks.
It all comes down to the probabilities.
Let's say you have 2 horrors, and 2 other Psykers who wish to cast smite.
If you cast with the horrors first you have:
1/3rd chance of passing the first cast
1/6th chance of passing the second cast
A ~58% chance of passing the third cast
And a ~42% chance of passing the fourth cast
This gives us an expected damage output of ~3.24 mortal wounds.
Compare this to just casting with the other Psykers in the first place
A 83% chance of passing the first cast
And a 72% chance of passing the second cast
This gives us an expected damage output of ~3.34 mortal wounds.
Add in a third psyker casting smite and it becomes 3.92 vs 4.62 showing a greater favour of not casting smite with the horrors.
Let's say you have 2 horrors, and 2 other Psykers who wish to cast smite.
If you cast with the horrors first you have:
1/3rd chance of passing the first cast
1/6th chance of passing the second cast
A ~58% chance of passing the third cast
And a ~42% chance of passing the fourth cast
This gives us an expected damage output of ~3.24 mortal wounds.
Compare this to just casting with the other Psykers in the first place
A 83% chance of passing the first cast
And a 72% chance of passing the second cast
This gives us an expected damage output of ~3.34 mortal wounds.
Add in a third psyker casting smite and it becomes 3.92 vs 4.62 showing a greater favour of not casting smite with the horrors.
You are right. But dont forget that a unit of ~25 horrors can smite where your other psykers maybe cant, because of range, or your smite target may not be the closest visible enemy unit. With horrors you select one horror who does the smite.
As soon as I get the money, I want to get Kairos Fateweaver. He's such a beautiful model, and I love the character's lore. That being said, I was wondering how I could best utilize him on the table. I have a regular LOC with a baleful sword, and I was wondering if putting them in the same unit would be the best. He's got alot of cool stuff, but I've also read that he's a firepower magnet, and I don't want to have him get blasted in the first turn. How could I make the best of him, either through him standalone attacks/abilities, or by buffing other Tzeentch daemons?
The base LoC is a great unit with the impossible robe and incoporeal warlord trait. Take the rod and fling smites at 30". He takes an insane amount of firepower to kill and will take the heat off of squishier demon units in your army. Despite his fluff, however, he's not a casting monster with only 2 powers and has to select from it's crappy discipline. All that is to note to treat such a build as beatstick who just happens to cast powers rather than the other way around.
ArcaneHorror wrote: As soon as I get the money, I want to get Kairos Fateweaver. He's such a beautiful model, and I love the character's lore. That being said, I was wondering how I could best utilize him on the table. I have a regular LOC with a baleful sword, and I was wondering if putting them in the same unit would be the best. He's got alot of cool stuff, but I've also read that he's a firepower magnet, and I don't want to have him get blasted in the first turn. How could I make the best of him, either through him standalone attacks/abilities, or by buffing other Tzeentch daemons?
Keep in mind that he cant get the impossible robe for a 3+ inv, while the LOC can. There is nothing you can do, he cant be given a relic, only a warlord trait, and that one is fixed. No psychic powers to protect him from damage. The LOC is the better choice. Psychic powers which are good on him are infernal gateway, flickering flames, boon of change, smite. The rest not so much.
Any aura that affects a TZEENTCH DAEMON will benefit Kairos. If you want to keep him alive long enough to crack some skulls, you might want to look at deep striking him or presenting an even more inviting target.
I'm considering dropping my TSons detachment and taking a Slaanesh Supreme, for ITC scoring purposes.
Harp Lady
Prince/Herald wrestling tag team
Scary Mirror
Should I:
1. Take 7 Fiends as the elite option there to give the Slaanesh a real punch?
2. Take a second unit of 30x Plaguebearers?
If I took Fiends, they would be the ONLY multi-wound targetable unit in my list--the rest is purely infantry and characters. This makes me worry about giving my opponent's lascannons, railguns, and plasma a juicy target.
Elric Greywolf wrote: I'm considering dropping my TSons detachment and taking a Slaanesh Supreme, for ITC scoring purposes.
Harp Lady
Prince/Herald wrestling tag team
Scary Mirror
Should I:
1. Take 7 Fiends as the elite option there to give the Slaanesh a real punch?
2. Take a second unit of 30x Plaguebearers?
If I took Fiends, they would be the ONLY multi-wound targetable unit in my list--the rest is purely infantry and characters. This makes me worry about giving my opponent's lascannons, railguns, and plasma a juicy target.
don't see why you would want syll'esse instead of a normal prince or another epitome. Pricier, footslogging, and comparatively limited attacks per phase for a substantial cost increase (choose one weapon profile then at another combat phase choose the other). If it were me the main reason i'd use the duo is if Im running lots of daemonettes otherwise a winged prince basically as choppy and more mobile in addition to being cheaper
Elric Greywolf wrote: I'm considering dropping my TSons detachment and taking a Slaanesh Supreme, for ITC scoring purposes.
Harp Lady
Prince/Herald wrestling tag team
Scary Mirror
Should I:
1. Take 7 Fiends as the elite option there to give the Slaanesh a real punch?
2. Take a second unit of 30x Plaguebearers?
If I took Fiends, they would be the ONLY multi-wound targetable unit in my list--the rest is purely infantry and characters. This makes me worry about giving my opponent's lascannons, railguns, and plasma a juicy target.
don't see why you would want syll'esse instead of a normal prince or another epitome. Pricier, footslogging, and comparatively limited attacks per phase for a substantial cost increase (choose one weapon profile then at another combat phase choose the other). If it were me the main reason i'd use the duo is if Im running lots of daemonettes otherwise a winged prince basically as choppy and more mobile in addition to being cheaper
That's not how the new Prince's weapons work.
You get to use both in the same combat phase, and not just in your own, one initially and the other after consolidation. They even FAQ'd it recently that it doesn't have to actually move to get the second lot of attacks.
Q: If Syll’Esske cannot make a consolidation move because it is
in base contact with an enemy model, can it still resolve its close
combat attacks again as a result of the Deadly Symbiosis ability?
A: Yes.
Q: When Syll’Esske uses the Deadly Symbiosis ability, it says it
can choose a new target. Must I choose a new target, or can I
choose a unit that Syll’Esske targeted during this phase?
A: You can choose a unit that Syll’Esske targeted during
this phase.
Winged DP can also take Celerity for a fairly reliable T1 charge with a pack of Fiends, or be a CSM one for Intoxicating Elixir, Dark Hereticus, and a LEGION trait.
It’s a very different beast to Syll’eske, and both have a place in a large Slaaneshi army.
I'm thinking that if I use my LOC and Kairos in my army, since the LOC is better than Kairos, I'll have Kairos on the field right away (with a healthy shield of cultists of course), and DS the LOC. With the perks that allow him to multiple saves plus all of his abilities, he could rip apart the enemy from behind and force the enemy to choose between which chicken to aim most of their firepower at.
What about Aetaos'rau'keres, is he good on the table? GW seriously needs to roll back his point level (why can't he be 999 points like the other FW greater daemons' points correspond to their gods's sacred number?). I've read that he's still nigh unkillable and can decimate enemy armies with all of his abilities.
im testing a list with 2xKOS+epitome and Magnus plus 90 Pb's, i swapped Magnus for a LOC (pretty more durable), problem is damage output not even close to Magnus, IG/Tau has lot of problem deal with LOC less with Magnus but of course Magnus kills anything LOC not. not easy to choose.
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barboggo wrote: 60 plaguebearers is so meta right now. Probably the right pick in most instances.
depend what format you play, in ITC perhaps 60 are enough, in ETC not less than 90, ETC play CA 2018 missions so scoring on obj is critical.
Khorne daemons have poor saves. They die really fast. They have no psykers. They are all about melee, any shooty army will remove most of them before they even get close, and charge. Good units are the bloodletter bomb, daemon princes, karanak. Thats pretty much it.
Ayuh. That's the answer, if you're the 1% who play in top-level tournaments on tables with no terrain.
If you play like the rest of us, the answer is it depends on your meta. You almost certainly won't make a super-killy TAC list and drive your enemies before you in every single game, but you absolutely can maintain a winning record in a casual/local tourney meta and have a lot of fun with a mono-Khorne Daemon army.
Or, you have options in the form of Renegades & Heretics and Heretic Astartes for ranged support of varying efficiency.
is not about terrain, is about army lists you face a decent Tau/Ig cancel you from the table also if you fill it up with Blos terrain, 9 mortars and 3 basilisk as lot of Ig plays in here , smart missiles and Tau high mobility and you doomed.
I know. I'm consistently told my Daemonettes will never make it into melee and am consistently surprised when they do. I'm consistently told my melee army will never win and am consistently surprised when it does.
As if the considerations of your meta aren't relevant to mine, or something.
Excommunicatus wrote: I know. I'm consistently told my Daemonettes will never make it into melee and am consistently surprised when they do. I'm consistently told my melee army will never win and am consistently surprised when it does.
As if the considerations of your meta aren't relevant to mine, or something.
I pretty much have the same reaction. I was even told my Daemonettes would do poorly in combat even if they made it in... that has also been the opposite in my experience.
as i said many many times, anything depend at what level you play, in casual games many units are viable, at tournaments lot less, demonettes if get into melee they kill almost anything, who says different lies. I played a mono slaanesh at last ETC tournament and i won 2 and tie the last one with a Tau, demonettes+syll'eeske deleted almost anything they touch, ork mobs, battlewagons, killa kans, genestealers, hive tyrants and so on...90 attacks re rolling anything can deal with almost anything.
Slaanesh works great with new KOS, play a couple with epithome syll'esske and 12 fiends plus 90 demonettes and you have a fast hard hitting list.
Rafss wrote: So what's the best choice for them? And why, if you can describe.
Bloodletters are really good at blowing up anything you deepstrike them at. Skull Cannons are the best long range gun in the codex, and Demon Prince of Khorne can be really nice with the axe relic to hunt knights. Otherwise yes, most of everything else is not incredibly good. If you DO go mono-Khorne, you most certainly want a FLOODS of Bloodletters.
you need hounds or you are too slow you can not DS all the letters you need something on the table, so i would go for lot of hounds and bloodletters bomb(s) 2-3 Dp's, fact is if you want a fast full melee army, slaanesh do anything better. I would go for a triple or at least double battalion
more or less a thing like this
One thing worth keeping in mind is if you pick a theme and stick to it, like going mono-god, you can almost always put something together over time that will put up a fight even for top table lists. It will be an uphill battle against the hottest meta, but you can actually throw people off a lot of times since you are bringing an army "no one would use" which means a lot of folks just won't know how to deal with it, where their target priority should be, what you can do, etc. This has been the case for me several times since I have gone pure Slaanesh since the beginning of 8th and, until recently, Slaanesh has pretty much been at the bottom of the pack with a few obvious exceptions (CSM allies shooting twice, for example). I came out on top at a local league with some regular tournament goers and pulled out 2nd in a nearby tournament well before we got some of our nice new toys like the epitome or Biggie-Smalls (Syll'Esske).
To be fair, I mostly picked a mono-god just to keep my spending and hobby impulse under control, but it has been a lot of fun for me and I very rarely run in to a list I can't give a run for its money and my local meta is super competitive with guys who regularly go to the big events like LVO and Adepticon. Even when I have hit a wall (which has only really happened once when the Castellen Meta started), I could go back to the list building and come up with a solution. So odds are if you want to play mono-Khorne, you can make it happen. I honestly believe every codex in 8th has a list or 3 that can hold its own against the most cheddar of tournament cheese with the right play style (just look at that guy who just won a tourny with pure Blood Angels).
Skull Cannons seem pretty solid for a Khorne daemon army but I never see them used. At 90 points you get a T7, W7, 3+/5++ battle cannon that ignores cover, isn't useless in close combat, and does mortal wounds on a charge. Having that 3+ on a daemon unit is pretty handy. Soul Grinders are still a little pricey but they are good units (though if you are willing to ally in Khorne CSM Daemon Engines, those are usually better and still benefit from daemon buffs). Mixing those in with some cannons give your army flexibility that most daemon armies lack and may surprise folks who just expect the usual blind Khorne charge. The new hounds would be handy as well since you will need to clear screens to make sure the blood letter bomb can actually get to a prime target. The Bloodcrushers look super cool but they are the only real stinker I can think of since they are just so expensive.
Khorne also got some love with the Vigilus Ablaze book, so be sure to check that out. I don't really like fortifications but the Skull Altar has a lot of tricks and can be summoned, so not sure if it is worth the points for those extra attacks and bonuses or not though. I feel like there is likely some play to be had there. The Legion of Skulls formation gets dumped on a lot, but if you have all Khorne on the table, it seems like the red tide can make one succesful charge pay off for several units if you position well. A short range, 1cp smite is situational but nice to have in your pocket.
@Tiberio
I said ETC cause it's a well know format, just to make it clear im NOT playing ITC. You can easily get 2 battalions and a supreme command,14Cp's might be enough, usually turn 1-2 you have 2 KoS 12 fiends and epithome/Dp ready to charge.
I bring real tournament experiences, i can often sound "negative" but if a thing don't work, i wont say "it's ok" "it's great" "you are gonna crush your opponent face with it".
Anyway i played ETC format too in past, so i know what i mean.
Rafss wrote: So what's the best choice for them? And why, if you can describe.
Bloodletters are really good at blowing up anything you deepstrike them at. Skull Cannons are the best long range gun in the codex, and Demon Prince of Khorne can be really nice with the axe relic to hunt knights. Otherwise yes, most of everything else is not incredibly good. If you DO go mono-Khorne, you most certainly want a FLOODS of Bloodletters.
First time I played my Khorne daemon army (it was against Drukhari), I steamrolled my opponent and would have won had he not gotten the objectives. Play them right, and that kind of army can be an engine of destruction.
Rafss wrote: So what's the best choice for them? And why, if you can describe.
Bloodletters are really good at blowing up anything you deepstrike them at. Skull Cannons are the best long range gun in the codex, and Demon Prince of Khorne can be really nice with the axe relic to hunt knights. Otherwise yes, most of everything else is not incredibly good. If you DO go mono-Khorne, you most certainly want a FLOODS of Bloodletters.
First time I played my Khorne daemon army (it was against Drukhari), I steamrolled my opponent and would have won had he not gotten the objectives. Play them right, and that kind of army can be an engine of destruction.
Dont suppose anyone would be willing to give hints to a newbie. Played 2 games so far and each time I lose 500-1000pts turn 1 before I get to activate anything(So as you imagine playing 500-1000pts down has been anything but fun). My demons are getting mulched by Chaos Marines/Thousand suns with Havocs with 64 shots along with 3 rockets for anything big. Ahriman and 3 demon princes are spelling the gak out of my units (plaguebears and demonettes)with death hex and doombolt. At this point I am feeling like I have wasted money with a demon army that seems knee capped super hard.
Azarin wrote: Dont suppose anyone would be willing to give hints to a newbie. Played 2 games so far and each time I lose 500-1000pts turn 1 before I get to activate anything(So as you imagine playing 500-1000pts down has been anything but fun). My demons are getting mulched by Chaos Marines/Thousand suns with Havocs with 64 shots along with 3 rockets for anything big. Ahriman and 3 demon princes are spelling the gak out of my units (plaguebears and demonettes)with death hex and doombolt. At this point I am feeling like I have wasted money with a demon army that seems knee capped super hard.
Hmm, sounds like you’ve built a perfectly good collection of Paper and have the misfortune to usually play Scissors. If you’re taking Daemonettes and get hit hard by psychics, I’d try bringing an Infernal Rapturess and Contorted Epitome. That gives you a large aura of common Perils of the Warp, which in turn opens up the chance for Possession - whilst CE brings two buffed DTW, and some situational Smite absorption.
New Havocs are really nasty, especially with those rotor cannons. Deploying Plaguebearers in large enough blobs to get -1 to be hit is one way to mitigate them; a Sloppity Bilepiper will give you better odds on a decimated unit not all vanishing to Morale. 24” range on their dakka means that Fiends of Slaanesh, terrain willing, can sometimes get inside their guard; lock them in combat and they’re toast (though I accept that an opposing army able to pump out smites is a pretty good counter; don’t forget Fiends’ reduction to enemy Psychic tests). Or, a flying Daemon Prince can just eat them. Not an efficient way to do it, though - ideally, you’d have more things going on in the same area.
40k 8ed is a game of high bodycounts, a typical victory entails your five shellshocked survivors planting a flag whilst your opponent’s two shellshocked survivors wave their fists in frustration. Try to play the mission, and remember that the whole purpose of lesser Daemons is to be disposable pawns.
Rafss wrote: So what's the best choice for them? And why, if you can describe.
Bloodletters are really good at blowing up anything you deepstrike them at. Skull Cannons are the best long range gun in the codex, and Demon Prince of Khorne can be really nice with the axe relic to hunt knights. Otherwise yes, most of everything else is not incredibly good. If you DO go mono-Khorne, you most certainly want a FLOODS of Bloodletters.
First time I played my Khorne daemon army (it was against Drukhari), I steamrolled my opponent and would have won had he not gotten the objectives. Play them right, and that kind of army can be an engine of destruction.
Would you mind sharing your list ?
I'm having a hard time finding the original. I think that this is it. You'll have to replace one prince with something else as GW now says that you can only have three in a matched play army.
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ] [Warlord] (Mark of Khorne) (Trait: Oblivious to Pain)
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury [HQ]
Blood Throne [HQ] (Artefact – Crimson Crown)
1 x 30 Bloodletters (with Banner of Blood/Icon and Instrument of Chaos)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters
Karanak Outrider Detachment:
Karanak [HQ]
Daemon Prince with Wings, Daemonic axe, and one set of talons [HQ] (Mark of Khorne)
(Artefact – Skull Reaver)
1 x 5 Flesh Hounds
1 x 5 Flesh Hounds
1 x 5 Flesh Hounds
Skulltaker Battalion:
Skulltaker [HQ]
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ] (Mark of Khorne)
Daemon Prince with wings, Hellforged sword, and one set of talons [HQ] (Mark of Khorne) (Artefact – King of Blades)
1 x 10 Bloodletters (with Instrument of Chaos)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters
Total points: 1991
Command points (original): 14
Command points (remaining after artefacts and Blood Banner): 10
Azarin wrote: Dont suppose anyone would be willing to give hints to a newbie. Played 2 games so far and each time I lose 500-1000pts turn 1 before I get to activate anything(So as you imagine playing 500-1000pts down has been anything but fun). My demons are getting mulched by Chaos Marines/Thousand suns with Havocs with 64 shots along with 3 rockets for anything big. Ahriman and 3 demon princes are spelling the gak out of my units (plaguebears and demonettes)with death hex and doombolt. At this point I am feeling like I have wasted money with a demon army that seems knee capped super hard.
It might also be helpful to post your list so we can give some suggestions? If you have both plague bearers and Daemonettes it sounds like you're heavy on infantry as both of those are units you want to take in big blobs of at least 20. Though you can MSU the Daemonettes a bit more... but only to hold objectives out of LOSIMO.
It also sounds like you might not be playing with enough terrain. That is the bane of all melee armies in this edition IMO, is people not playing with enough terrain. You should know whether you're likely getting first turn or not before you deploy and you should be deploying accordingly. Don't put everything on the front line in plane sight if you're not going first. Ask your enemy what their ranges on their weapons are and counter-deploy accordingly. A lot of the game, in my opinion, is won in the movement/deployment phase (assuming dice gods don't betray you).
Again though, posting your list would help! Particularly with the mixed non-mono god army as I'm not sure where you're getting your bigger punch from. A KOS and a LOC will have very different strategies/recommendations for instance.
Agreed. Your list and a list of avalible models would be helpful. Also the mission your playing, if you guys are just playing 1vp per killed unit you are probably going to lose, that game style always favors small elite forces over large squishy armies.
That's a hefty number of bloodletters, Blood must have shed. Khorne was certainly pleased !
Yes, especially when I used the Banner of Blood and wiped out an entire unit of Drukhari infantry. Also, my princes, if I remember correctly, took down at least one vehicle.
Azarin wrote: Dont suppose anyone would be willing to give hints to a newbie. Played 2 games so far and each time I lose 500-1000pts turn 1 before I get to activate anything(So as you imagine playing 500-1000pts down has been anything but fun). My demons are getting mulched by Chaos Marines/Thousand suns with Havocs with 64 shots along with 3 rockets for anything big. Ahriman and 3 demon princes are spelling the gak out of my units (plaguebears and demonettes)with death hex and doombolt. At this point I am feeling like I have wasted money with a demon army that seems knee capped super hard.
It might also be helpful to post your list so we can give some suggestions? If you have both plague bearers and Daemonettes it sounds like you're heavy on infantry as both of those are units you want to take in big blobs of at least 20. Though you can MSU the Daemonettes a bit more... but only to hold objectives out of LOSIMO.
It also sounds like you might not be playing with enough terrain. That is the bane of all melee armies in this edition IMO, is people not playing with enough terrain. You should know whether you're likely getting first turn or not before you deploy and you should be deploying accordingly. Don't put everything on the front line in plane sight if you're not going first. Ask your enemy what their ranges on their weapons are and counter-deploy accordingly. A lot of the game, in my opinion, is won in the movement/deployment phase (assuming dice gods don't betray you).
Again though, posting your list would help! Particularly with the mixed non-mono god army as I'm not sure where you're getting your bigger punch from. A KOS and a LOC will have very different strategies/recommendations for instance.
ah sorry. I used to following but due to last night horrendous results I plan on changing it quite a bit, just have to figure out with what.
Battallion Poxbringer
sloppity bilepiper
spoilpox scrivener
30 plaguebears with Instrument, and icon
30 plaguebears with Instrument, and icon
3nurglings
Battlion Demon prince (double talons, warlord -Celerity of slaanesh, Forbidden gem)
The changling (will be replaced with a changecaster in the future)
3Nurglings
30 Daemonettes with icon and Instrument
30 Pink Horrors with icon and instrument (deep striked them in behind the CSM but they only killed like 6 guys out of 90 shots)
Super heavy Auxiliary Detachmetn
Magnus the Red (probably never using him again)
The match itself was awful I pretty much got wiped only killed like 300pts and only got like 5 control points. I am still very ultra new (2nd game) so i guess this is to be expected. Just felt like i put models down to only pick them back up immediately.
Turn 1 1.5 units of plague bearers were destroyed before they could activate between spells(like death hex), 64 shot havocs, and Tsangors (did some kind of turn1 deepstrike power). Magnus the red really was bad, just instantly died to 3 rockets (seemed like a cool model so thought i would try him, not making that mistake again)
I am guessing my biggest issue is I dont know what i am fighting against (you say you have this, at this moment i dont know what that does lmfao). So I guess that will be resolved in the coming weeks with more matches.
Azuza001 wrote: Agreed. Your list and a list of avalible models would be helpful. Also the mission your playing, if you guys are just playing 1vp per killed unit you are probably going to lose, that game style always favors small elite forces over large squishy armies.
We were playing with objectives, I am afraid i dont have my book with me atm but it was the deployment 50% each way with a circle in the center with a radius of 9in. The objective has 5 points with 3 spread evenly in the middle both ways(1 center left, 1 center, 1 center right, 1 myside center, 1 opponent center side). (sorry hope i am making sense)
I actually have quite alot of demons, bought a metric ton in 6th edition but never played until now(biggest thing i am missing is KOS, beast of nurgle, and fiends)(i do have the new slaneesh toys, Contorted epitome, syll eskke, infernal enrapturess).
If you have any advice on anything it would be awesome and I would greatly appreciate it.
I think one of the biggest issues in my game was deployment (biggest mistake), Magnus and lack of psychic powers. With magnus instantly dead I only have a few powers left, but by my 1st turn 1.5 of my units were dead. the 1st game we positioned unity alternatively which i thought this was the same but only to learn that it wasn't and that I was going 2nd. I probably should have tried to find some building to hide in but i was also in the mindset that i need to get to him as quickly as possible thus allowing him to explode half my army (literally)
I had the spare points so it wont happen again. They did get a charge off but didnt kill jack lol.
The idea was have Changling give them flickering flame but that didnt happen since the changeling at that point was surrounded by Tsangors (60 of them) so the horrors had no place close to land
The 2nd Battalion Detachment is, frankly, a mess and nothing in it gets any Locus bonuses. Meanwhile, there's not really anything there for Magnus to buff, which is his whole thing.
I would split it into two Patrols, for now. One Tzeentch and one Slaanesh; put the three Nurglings into the Nurgle Detachment. Drop Magnus and try playing at a lower points level. Work him back in if/when you expand your Tzeentch collection.
EDIT - IMO, your prime target for DotW is your Daemonettes, not your Horrors.
The 2nd Battalion Detachment is, frankly, a mess and nothing in it gets any Locus bonuses. Meanwhile, there's not really anything there for Magnus to buff, which is his whole thing.
I would split it into two Patrols, for now. One Tzeentch and one Slaanesh; put the three Nurglings into the Nurgle Detachment. Drop Magnus and try playing at a lower points level. Work him back in if/when you expand your Tzeentch collection.
EDIT - IMO, your prime target for DotW is your Daemonettes, not your Horrors.
Gotcha! Thanks for the advice. I am probably going to avoid any of the big guys since I have a feeling they will just get rockets or laser to the face before they can do anything. I am guessing that a couple of demon princes can serve as heavy hitters?
does the rule of three affect all demons princes? (example can i have 3 demon princes + syll eskke)
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Excommunicatus mentioned not getting locus bonuses for the undivided battalion, are the locus bonuses really that game-changing? I cant deny I have been looking online and seen several tourney list that was undivided as well.
Hey guys, I am working on a 1500 pt list for ITC standard missions for a tournament near me. My problem is that I am not sure how to fill it out. I know that the most competitive option available to me is probably a daemons battalion and a thousand sons supreme command, but that leaves me with quite a few pts to play with. I have a few options I am considering, but am unsure whats the best fit. Additionally, my store doesnt allow forgeworld, so suggestions not from FW are appreciated.
Core list 1145 pts
Daemons Battalion
HQ Poxbringer
Sloppity Bilepiper
Supreme Command Thousand Sons
HQ Ahriman
Daemon Prince w/ Talons, Wings
Daemon Prince w/ Talons, Wings
Now my considerations
1. A CSM battalion
This option fits pretty nicely with the heavy screening in my list and also the jump lord packs a fair amount of punch. My problem with this detachment is that i am pretty sure 250 pts of this doesnt pretty much nothing as the apostle is lackluster and cultists dont do much that isnt accomplished by my plaguebearers. The CP is quite nice though.
HQ Dark Apostle
Chaos Jump Lord w/ Relic Chainsword, Chainsword, Flames of Spite
Troops
10x Cultists
10x Cultists
10x Cultists
2. More Daemons
Not sure what to go with here, but likely either a Khorne splash or Tzeentch. I dont think I have the CP for both since I think I would want to drop them in so I’d only choose one. Either a KDP w/ bloodletters or a Changecaster w/ pinks and another DP in the 1K sons section. The Bloodletters worry me since there isnt a good way for my list to clear chaff, but the pinks worry me as while they are great small arms fire they wont do anything to bigger targets
3. A Chaos Knight
This is a new option that I am unsure of. The core of my list is pretty strong due to giving my opponents no option in terms of what to shoot at since all the characters are screen by plaguebearers. However, a knight may just give them a perfect target to fire at. That being said, the new knight rampager is pretty nuts or a knight despoiler w/ avengers could provide a nice amount of shooting.
Those are what came to mind to me, let me know what would be the best option from this or if there is a better option I am missing at this point level. I can run pretty much anything that isnt FW (I have a lot of chaos of all flavours) so don’t be shy in recommendations. Thanks!
Azarin wrote: Dont suppose anyone would be willing to give hints to a newbie. Played 2 games so far and each time I lose 500-1000pts turn 1 before I get to activate anything(So as you imagine playing 500-1000pts down has been anything but fun). My demons are getting mulched by Chaos Marines/Thousand suns with Havocs with 64 shots along with 3 rockets for anything big. Ahriman and 3 demon princes are spelling the gak out of my units (plaguebears and demonettes)with death hex and doombolt. At this point I am feeling like I have wasted money with a demon army that seems knee capped super hard.
It might also be helpful to post your list so we can give some suggestions? If you have both plague bearers and Daemonettes it sounds like you're heavy on infantry as both of those are units you want to take in big blobs of at least 20. Though you can MSU the Daemonettes a bit more... but only to hold objectives out of LOSIMO.
It also sounds like you might not be playing with enough terrain. That is the bane of all melee armies in this edition IMO, is people not playing with enough terrain. You should know whether you're likely getting first turn or not before you deploy and you should be deploying accordingly. Don't put everything on the front line in plane sight if you're not going first. Ask your enemy what their ranges on their weapons are and counter-deploy accordingly. A lot of the game, in my opinion, is won in the movement/deployment phase (assuming dice gods don't betray you).
Again though, posting your list would help! Particularly with the mixed non-mono god army as I'm not sure where you're getting your bigger punch from. A KOS and a LOC will have very different strategies/recommendations for instance.
ah sorry. I used to following but due to last night horrendous results I plan on changing it quite a bit, just have to figure out with what.
Battallion Poxbringer
sloppity bilepiper
spoilpox scrivener
30 plaguebears with Instrument, and icon
30 plaguebears with Instrument, and icon
3nurglings
Battlion Demon prince (double talons, warlord -Celerity of slaanesh, Forbidden gem)
The changling (will be replaced with a changecaster in the future)
3Nurglings
30 Daemonettes with icon and Instrument
30 Pink Horrors with icon and instrument (deep striked them in behind the CSM but they only killed like 6 guys out of 90 shots)
Super heavy Auxiliary Detachmetn
Magnus the Red (probably never using him again)
The match itself was awful I pretty much got wiped only killed like 300pts and only got like 5 control points. I am still very ultra new (2nd game) so i guess this is to be expected. Just felt like i put models down to only pick them back up immediately.
Turn 1 1.5 units of plague bearers were destroyed before they could activate between spells(like death hex), 64 shot havocs, and Tsangors (did some kind of turn1 deepstrike power). Magnus the red really was bad, just instantly died to 3 rockets (seemed like a cool model so thought i would try him, not making that mistake again)
I am guessing my biggest issue is I dont know what i am fighting against (you say you have this, at this moment i dont know what that does lmfao). So I guess that will be resolved in the coming weeks with more matches.
So, as some of the others have said your list is kind of going everywhere. Particularly that second detachment is really a mess.
I saw your second post as well about dropping bigger monsters. I'll give some advice with that as well below...
So, as has been stated, you need to know that the new Daemons book pushes us to play mono-god Detachements. As a new player, I would stick 1 or a maximum of 2 of the Gods you like best and stick with those. Really reread their rules, understand how they synergize. 'Cause at the moment, and I mean no offense by this, your list looks like you just threw models onto the table. But you're new! So that's to be expected! It's all a part of the learning process.
For example - the blob of 30 Daemonettes. 30 Daemonettes can be a great unit... but you need to support them. Daemonettes, and in fact Slaanesh's entire schtick is moving really fast (and lots of attacks). You have the DP so they can advance and charge I see but you're missing out on a herald that buffs their strength, as well as the DPs strength. The rest of your army will be SUPER slow as well, so they'll run up alone and get focused while the rest of your army plods along behind it.
To make my point more clear. You don't want to just synergize the rules, but the concept for your force. IF you want to play Nurgle but want a faster element in there, you need to add the new Gnarlmaw trees to springboard units advance rolls off of, or add plague drones. A random 30 Daemonettes will just run up alone, by themselves, and get annihilated.
If you want to run up the board quickly to engage the enemy, Slaanesh is your go to force but they rely on a heavy model count. I play Mono-Slaanesh and rock 90 Daemonettes for instance in blobs of 30. They all rush up the board together as a giant block normally. With HQs in the middle. Then I'll either have MULTIPLE big monsters 2-3 KOS (for our big monsters you need multiples) or I will spam chariots. All of this shunts up the board all at once. So it's a massive block of stuff in their face (hypothetically) all at once. Every section of the force has overlapping auras for the advance/charge, +1 strength, LD 10 for the Daemonettes from the KOS if I bring it.
If you want both I'd design the Nurgle stuff around being defensive/capping points (more nurglings and less PB maybe?) and then one of the other 3 to be more offensive.
And don't forget the game begins as soon as you start throwing models down! Your choices on deployment will impact the game, a lot, so being careful with your deployment is also essential.
AFAIK, 3 DP+Syll'Esske is perfectly legal. Too many eggs in four baskets, IMO, but legal. You can't have 3 Nurgle DP, 3 Khorne DP etc. etc. like you could before, but I'm pretty sure named characters are not counted as the "same" Datasheet, even taking into account GW's baffling take on what "same" means.
Further to the above point about Daemonettes, Syll'Esske is both a DP and a Herald, costs 20pts less than taking a non-FLY DP and a Herald separately, only takes up one HQ slot and is, IMO, an absolute face-smasher.
Azarin wrote: Dont suppose anyone would be willing to give hints to a newbie. Played 2 games so far and each time I lose 500-1000pts turn 1 before I get to activate anything(So as you imagine playing 500-1000pts down has been anything but fun). My demons are getting mulched by Chaos Marines/Thousand suns with Havocs with 64 shots along with 3 rockets for anything big. Ahriman and 3 demon princes are spelling the gak out of my units (plaguebears and demonettes)with death hex and doombolt. At this point I am feeling like I have wasted money with a demon army that seems knee capped super hard.
It might also be helpful to post your list so we can give some suggestions? If you have both plague bearers and Daemonettes it sounds like you're heavy on infantry as both of those are units you want to take in big blobs of at least 20. Though you can MSU the Daemonettes a bit more... but only to hold objectives out of LOSIMO.
It also sounds like you might not be playing with enough terrain. That is the bane of all melee armies in this edition IMO, is people not playing with enough terrain. You should know whether you're likely getting first turn or not before you deploy and you should be deploying accordingly. Don't put everything on the front line in plane sight if you're not going first. Ask your enemy what their ranges on their weapons are and counter-deploy accordingly. A lot of the game, in my opinion, is won in the movement/deployment phase (assuming dice gods don't betray you).
Again though, posting your list would help! Particularly with the mixed non-mono god army as I'm not sure where you're getting your bigger punch from. A KOS and a LOC will have very different strategies/recommendations for instance.
ah sorry. I used to following but due to last night horrendous results I plan on changing it quite a bit, just have to figure out with what.
Battallion Poxbringer
sloppity bilepiper
spoilpox scrivener
30 plaguebears with Instrument, and icon
30 plaguebears with Instrument, and icon
3nurglings
Battlion Demon prince (double talons, warlord -Celerity of slaanesh, Forbidden gem)
The changling (will be replaced with a changecaster in the future)
3Nurglings
30 Daemonettes with icon and Instrument
30 Pink Horrors with icon and instrument (deep striked them in behind the CSM but they only killed like 6 guys out of 90 shots)
Super heavy Auxiliary Detachmetn
Magnus the Red (probably never using him again)
The match itself was awful I pretty much got wiped only killed like 300pts and only got like 5 control points. I am still very ultra new (2nd game) so i guess this is to be expected. Just felt like i put models down to only pick them back up immediately.
Turn 1 1.5 units of plague bearers were destroyed before they could activate between spells(like death hex), 64 shot havocs, and Tsangors (did some kind of turn1 deepstrike power). Magnus the red really was bad, just instantly died to 3 rockets (seemed like a cool model so thought i would try him, not making that mistake again)
I am guessing my biggest issue is I dont know what i am fighting against (you say you have this, at this moment i dont know what that does lmfao). So I guess that will be resolved in the coming weeks with more matches.
So, as some of the others have said your list is kind of going everywhere. Particularly that second detachment is really a mess.
I saw your second post as well about dropping bigger monsters. I'll give some advice with that as well below...
So, as has been stated, you need to know that the new Daemons book pushes us to play mono-god Detachements. As a new player, I would stick 1 or a maximum of 2 of the Gods you like best and stick with those. Really reread their rules, understand how they synergize. 'Cause at the moment, and I mean no offense by this, your list looks like you just threw models onto the table. But you're new! So that's to be expected! It's all a part of the learning process.
For example - the blob of 30 Daemonettes. 30 Daemonettes can be a great unit... but you need to support them. Daemonettes, and in fact Slaanesh's entire schtick is moving really fast (and lots of attacks). You have the DP so they can advance and charge I see but you're missing out on a herald that buffs their strength, as well as the DPs strength. The rest of your army will be SUPER slow as well, so they'll run up alone and get focused while the rest of your army plods along behind it.
To make my point more clear. You don't want to just synergize the rules, but the concept for your force. IF you want to play Nurgle but want a faster element in there, you need to add the new Gnarlmaw trees to springboard units advance rolls off of, or add plague drones. A random 30 Daemonettes will just run up alone, by themselves, and get annihilated.
If you want to run up the board quickly to engage the enemy, Slaanesh is your go to force but they rely on a heavy model count. I play Mono-Slaanesh and rock 90 Daemonettes for instance in blobs of 30. They all rush up the board together as a giant block normally. With HQs in the middle. Then I'll either have MULTIPLE big monsters 2-3 KOS (for our big monsters you need multiples) or I will spam chariots. All of this shunts up the board all at once. So it's a massive block of stuff in their face (hypothetically) all at once. Every section of the force has overlapping auras for the advance/charge, +1 strength, LD 10 for the Daemonettes from the KOS if I bring it.
If you want both I'd design the Nurgle stuff around being defensive/capping points (more nurglings and less PB maybe?) and then one of the other 3 to be more offensive.
And don't forget the game begins as soon as you start throwing models down! Your choices on deployment will impact the game, a lot, so being careful with your deployment is also essential.
Awesome advice thank you. Had another game last night, i still got stomped but made alot more of a dent then I did before (yay progress).
For the record this time i went with
Battalion
Poxbringer
sloppity bilepiper
spoilpox scrivener
3 nurglings
30 plaguebearers(Instrument,Icon)
30 plaguebearers (Instrument, Icon)
Patrol
syll esske
The contorted epitome
30 daemonettes (Icon, instrument)
Right now my oppoenent is so super gun heavy that the plaguebears just get blasted to timbuktu (3 units of havocs , 3 rockets along with 11 psyker powers tend to do that i guess).
Thinking of removing the Tzzentch detachment and replacing with Ahriman and 2 demon princes (since their dp psykers are alot better than mine apparantly), or maybe trying the mortation detachment with guards (still concerned about him getting gunned off the table though).
Question: I just got the Contorted Epitome model but where can I find its' point cost? It can't be in the paper codex because that was released way before the model and the instruction manual only lists its' power level. It's my first Daemon model (I'm going to use it in an auxiliary character detachment with a CSM Slaanesh army until I get more stuff) so I'm quite lost here. Thanks!
Pandabeer wrote: Question: I just got the Contorted Epitome model but where can I find its' point cost? It can't be in the paper codex because that was released way before the model and the instruction manual only lists its' power level. It's my first Daemon model (I'm going to use it in an auxiliary character detachment with a CSM Slaanesh army until I get more stuff) so I'm quite lost here. Thanks!
Here is a picture of the points they released. They are current ATM.
Pandabeer wrote: Question: I just got the Contorted Epitome model but where can I find its' point cost? It can't be in the paper codex because that was released way before the model and the instruction manual only lists its' power level. It's my first Daemon model (I'm going to use it in an auxiliary character detachment with a CSM Slaanesh army until I get more stuff) so I'm quite lost here. Thanks!
Not sure if it helps but if you use battlescribe it also has all the proper points.
Hello All, Im very new to daemons and currently own a mono khorne army, they dont see to do to well what is the best Partner that I can pair them up with Tzeentch is a good combo Or Slaneesh maybe?
I think Tzeentch cause it has smite and some longer range support
ballzonya wrote: Hello All, Im very new to daemons and currently own a mono khorne army, they dont see to do to well what is the best Partner that I can pair them up with Tzeentch is a good combo Or Slaneesh maybe?
I think Tzeentch cause it has smite and some longer range support
As with the other lad that came before you, what sort of list are you running? What are you having issues facing?
Just starting out then? What kind of players/armies are you facing? I am not as familiar with Khorne as I am Slaanesh but I remember people mentioning that Bloodcrushers are really overpriced for what they do (not good basically). But it's always good to have the models if you enjoy the faction, you don't always have to be the most competitive & things change/get updated.
Are you using tricks like the bloodletter bomb when playing? Or just trying to run up the board?
ballzonya wrote: lol yeah I inherited the army so just starting meaning I haven't bought my own troops yet and played a few games.
I mainly use the bloodletter trick and kill things I charge but they die shortly after that.
Khorne are just really bad at footslogging you can pair them with some plaguebearers (who are good at footslogging) for holding objectives. So you could take two 20 man bloodletter bombs with skulltaker and put them in deepstrike. Put 30-60 plaguebearers on the board with some daemon princes with the khorne relic axe and sword (these are the the best anti tank that you can hide with the character rule) , a poxbringer, maybe some nurglings and your skull cannons. Then you've got a list that can move up safely till they get in combat and two decent bloodletter bombs.
ballzonya wrote: lol yeah I inherited the army so just starting meaning I haven't bought my own troops yet and played a few games.
I mainly use the bloodletter trick and kill things I charge but they die shortly after that.
Khorne are just really bad at footslogging you can pair them with some plaguebearers (who are good at footslogging) for holding objectives. So you could take two 20 man bloodletter bombs with skulltaker and put them in deepstrike. Put 30-60 plaguebearers on the board with some daemon princes with the khorne relic axe and sword (these are the the best anti tank that you can hide with the character rule) , a poxbringer, maybe some nurglings and your skull cannons. Then you've got a list that can move up safely till they get in combat and two decent bloodletter bombs.
ballzonya wrote: lol yeah I inherited the army so just starting meaning I haven't bought my own troops yet and played a few games.
I mainly use the bloodletter trick and kill things I charge but they die shortly after that.
Khorne are just really bad at footslogging you can pair them with some plaguebearers (who are good at footslogging) for holding objectives. So you could take two 20 man bloodletter bombs with skulltaker and put them in deepstrike. Put 30-60 plaguebearers on the board with some daemon princes with the khorne relic axe and sword (these are the the best anti tank that you can hide with the character rule) , a poxbringer, maybe some nurglings and your skull cannons. Then you've got a list that can move up safely till they get in combat and two decent bloodletter bombs.
How would you build a mono-Khorne army?
Depends if you want just daemons or csm as well. It's a struggle to build a mono khorne daemon army that isn't something silly like 200 bloodletters and a few characters.
Not that I'm not interested in CSM but I prefer to have an army of just pure daemons I have khorne already thats why I asked what other daemon army compliments them well
Tzeench is the only one I can think of cause of the range support why powers.
ballzonya wrote: Not that I'm not interested in CSM but I prefer to have an army of just pure daemons I have khorne already thats why I asked what other daemon army compliments them well
Tzeench is the only one I can think of cause of the range support why powers.
Tzeentch would most likely be your best option for the range/smiting but Nurgle would also compliment it well as posted above for staying power on the board. A lot of the smiting is going to come from expensive LOC units and such, but pink bombs and flamers work well too.
For board control, Nurgle is the way to go though. Nurglings can scout move and camp on objectives/hide easily, etc.
ballzonya wrote: Not that I'm not interested in CSM but I prefer to have an army of just pure daemons I have khorne already thats why I asked what other daemon army compliments them well
Tzeench is the only one I can think of cause of the range support why powers.
I think Slanesh have a decent chance of making a mono god daemon list with all their new units and cheaper daemonettes. The lists that I've seen really work well at tournaments are a mix of csm daemons, chaos daemon troops and characters.
So flawless host lord discordants with slanesh heralds and daemonettes. Or world eater warptalons with a khorne herald with the crimson crown are absolute blenders.
ballzonya wrote: Not that I'm not interested in CSM but I prefer to have an army of just pure daemons I have khorne already thats why I asked what other daemon army compliments them well
Tzeench is the only one I can think of cause of the range support why powers.
I think Slanesh have a decent chance of making a mono god daemon list with all their new units and cheaper daemonettes. The lists that I've seen really work well at tournaments are a mix of csm daemons, chaos daemon troops and characters.
So flawless host lord discordants with slanesh heralds and daemonettes. Or world eater warptalons with a khorne herald with the crimson crown are absolute blenders.
I am awaiting my Emperor's Children codex before I dive into CSM to join my Slaanesh Daemons.
ballzonya wrote: Not that I'm not interested in CSM but I prefer to have an army of just pure daemons I have khorne already thats why I asked what other daemon army compliments them well
Tzeench is the only one I can think of cause of the range support why powers.
I think Slanesh have a decent chance of making a mono god daemon list with all their new units and cheaper daemonettes. The lists that I've seen really work well at tournaments are a mix of csm daemons, chaos daemon troops and characters.
So flawless host lord discordants with slanesh heralds and daemonettes. Or world eater warptalons with a khorne herald with the crimson crown are absolute blenders.
yes you can buy decent lists but until plaguebearers will cost only 7pts will be no comparison, anyway lot more fun play Slaanesh.
You need 5pts spare, but It is insane: you deepstrike them, charge something, catch overwatch, one pink dies, and suddenly you require only 6” to charge, possibly locking multiple enemy units.
Works like charm against tau, eldars and imperial guard. You are paving highway for your letters.
You need 5pts spare, but It is insane: you deepstrike them, charge something, catch overwatch, one pink dies, and suddenly you require only 6” to charge, possibly locking multiple enemy units.
Works like charm against tau, eldars and imperial guard. You are paving highway for your letters.
I guess you refer to their split ability ? With 2 blue horrors (one pink can split into two blue) you can make that a 4" charge. Nice idea.
-Ekko- wrote: Hey guys, in your opinion, what God should I pick if I want to play a mono God daemon list?
I am fairly sure the response you'll get will mainly be telling you to go Nurgle (Nurgle is the big competitive fad atm). My opinion though, with the current rate of Games Workshop changing things, is to find the God/Faction you identify most with and enjoy the models and the play style of that God/army.
Playing it will inform your decisions from there and things are likely to continue to be balanced/adjusted so things that seem worthless right now, may be good. I play mono Slaanesh and never took Exalted chariots because they were overpriced at 100+ points. Now they're considerably cheaper and I like to fit as many as I can in depending on the list I'm making. They've really proven themselves lately... but I love Slaanesh, love the models and the style. I really get immersed in my faction. If you're having fun with the army you'll find ways to play/win. That's my 2 cents on where to start in this hobby.
What's funny (and awesome?) is that competitive daemons now actually rewards those who go Chaos Undivided with their collections. Every god has some competitive picks at this point. The toughest mono-army to win a game with is probably Khorne, but if you're determined I'm sure it's doable.
Off the top of my head:
Nurgle
Competitive: Plaguebearers, nurglings, poxbringers, sloppity bilepiper, spoilpox scrivener, daemon princes
Semi-competitive: Plague drones, Great Unclean One
slave.entity wrote: What's funny (and awesome?) is that competitive daemons now actually rewards those who go Chaos Undivided with their collections. Every god has some competitive picks at this point. The toughest mono-army to win a game with is probably Khorne, but if you're determined I'm sure it's doable.
Off the top of my head:
Nurgle
Competitive: Plaguebearers, nurglings, poxbringers, sloppity bilepiper, spoilpox scrivener, daemon princes
Semi-competitive: Plague drones, Great Unclean One
Tzeentch
Competitive: Pink horrors, changecasters, daemon princes
Semi-competitive: Blue horrors, brimstone horrors, exalted flamers, Lord of Change
Slaanesh
Competitive: Syll'Esske, contorted epitome, infernal enrapturess, daemon princes
Semi-competitive: daemonettes, masque of Slaanesh, heralds of Slaanesh
the only monogod who made good results is nurgle based, anyway if you go take a look at all high ranking demon armies they all play soup (nugle+korne (BL)+ Tz (horrors) )
hey guys, played vs a Daemon army for first time last week and was hit by Mortarian (souped up with psychic powers) that basically generated 54 attacks against my unit. Since I'm unfamiliar with this (it was a tournament, so wasn't going to bog it down by asking all how all the bonuses stacked) could someone enlighten me how this is done (so I'm better prepared next time). I believe it had to do with sweeping attacks, Death to the False Emperor on 5+ and those extra attacks spawning into 3 attacks, etc.
Cheers
bullyboy wrote: hey guys, played vs a Daemon army for first time last week and was hit by Mortarian (souped up with psychic powers) that basically generated 54 attacks against my unit. Since I'm unfamiliar with this (it was a tournament, so wasn't going to bog it down by asking all how all the bonuses stacked) could someone enlighten me how this is done (so I'm better prepared next time). I believe it had to do with sweeping attacks, Death to the False Emperor on 5+ and those extra attacks spawning into 3 attacks, etc.
Cheers
From what you say, it sounds illegal. Morty does have sweeping attacks, and he can generate bonus attacks from DTTFE on 5+, when he gets +1 to hit. But he doesnt get 3 additional attacks. Thats the warlord trait from CSM chapter ultimate confidence, morty cant use that, he is death guard. His warlord trait is fixed, its arch-contaminator.
You need 5pts spare, but It is insane: you deepstrike them, charge something, catch overwatch, one pink dies, and suddenly you require only 6” to charge, possibly locking multiple enemy units.
Works like charm against tau, eldars and imperial guard. You are paving highway for your letters.
I guess you refer to their split ability ? With 2 blue horrors (one pink can split into two blue) you can make that a 4" charge. Nice idea.
No because you have to place any new models within 2" of a model that was on the board at the start of the phase. It's in one of the FAQs. So the most you can reduce the charge by splitting is 3". 9.1" away, 2" + 25mm base (0.98") brings you down to 6.12" needing a 6 on the charge roll, 5 with an instrument.
No because you have to place any new models within 2" of a model that was on the board at the start of the phase. It's in one of the FAQs. So the most you can reduce the charge by splitting is 3". 9.1" away, 2" + 25mm base (0.98") brings you down to 6.12" needing a 6 on the charge roll, 5 with an instrument.
I think you refer to this :
Q: Some rules allow me to add models to a unit during the battle
(e.g. the Poxwalker’s Curse of the Walking Pox ability). Where are
those models set up?
A: Unless otherwise stated, these new models are placed
anywhere that is more than 1" from any enemy model and
still within unit coherency of a model in its own unit that
was itself on the battlefield at the start of the phase in
which the new model was created. Note that if you cannot
set up a new model on the battlefield because there is no
room, it is simply not set up.
Note that it says unless otherwise stated. The split rule has specific instructions how to place the blue horrors. The FAQ above only applies if there are no specific instructions how to place new models. The blue horrors must still be placed within unit coherency, because they are added to the pink horror unit.
Split
Each time a Pink Horror is slain, you can add up to two Blue Horrors to this unit before you remove the slain model. Each time a Blue Horror is slain, you can add one pair of Brimstone Horrors to this unit before you remove the slain model. The replacement models cannot be placed within 1" of an enemy model. Note that Horrors that flee do not generate any extra models for their unit. Matched Play: In matched play you must pay reinforcement points for each and every Blue and Brimstone Horror model that you add to a unit of Horrors, but the additional models can take the unit above its starting strength.
My understanding of "otherwise stated" is that the rule would have to specifically contradict the statement, and the split rule doesn't. In my opinion it doesn't work, but I guess that's something to ask in "You make the call".
Yeah, I’m absolutely reading that as the general rule on adding models to a unit still applies, and it’s a hell of a reach to assume that your opponent/TO will acquiesce to any other reading.
5” charge from deep strike/summon is still brilliant, especially on a unit with the endurance to take some nasty overwatch on behalf of a hammer unit. Honestly, you could do it for 53 Reinforcement Points (8 Brimstones, 1 sacrificial Pink, 1 Pink with Instrument, 1 Blue), and easily save that much in dead beatsticks (say, Berzerkers in a Chaos soup list). (Fringe benefit of potential Summoning VPs in a Maelstrom game as well)
Only issue is it does rely on your opponent hitting and wounding enough with OW to get past a 4++ and not wipe out the rest of the Horrors, which makes it null against the sort of massed 8” auto-hit that characterises your typical OW monster.
bullyboy wrote: hey guys, played vs a Daemon army for first time last week and was hit by Mortarian (souped up with psychic powers) that basically generated 54 attacks against my unit. Since I'm unfamiliar with this (it was a tournament, so wasn't going to bog it down by asking all how all the bonuses stacked) could someone enlighten me how this is done (so I'm better prepared next time). I believe it had to do with sweeping attacks, Death to the False Emperor on 5+ and those extra attacks spawning into 3 attacks, etc.
Cheers
From what you say, it sounds illegal. Morty does have sweeping attacks, and he can generate bonus attacks from DTTFE on 5+, when he gets +1 to hit. But he doesnt get 3 additional attacks. Thats the warlord trait from CSM chapter ultimate confidence, morty cant use that, he is death guard. His warlord trait is fixed, its arch-contaminator.
He gets one extra attack, which turns into three hit rolls from Sweeping Attacks.
That being said, he has, what? 6 Attacks?
So that's 18 hit rolls with sweeping blows. Even proccing DttFE on a 5+, he should get an average of 36 attacks. The odds of getting 54 are pretty damn slim, requiring 12 5+ on 18 dice.
bullyboy wrote: hey guys, played vs a Daemon army for first time last week and was hit by Mortarian (souped up with psychic powers) that basically generated 54 attacks against my unit. Since I'm unfamiliar with this (it was a tournament, so wasn't going to bog it down by asking all how all the bonuses stacked) could someone enlighten me how this is done (so I'm better prepared next time). I believe it had to do with sweeping attacks, Death to the False Emperor on 5+ and those extra attacks spawning into 3 attacks, etc.
Cheers
From what you say, it sounds illegal. Morty does have sweeping attacks, and he can generate bonus attacks from DTTFE on 5+, when he gets +1 to hit. But he doesnt get 3 additional attacks. Thats the warlord trait from CSM chapter ultimate confidence, morty cant use that, he is death guard. His warlord trait is fixed, its arch-contaminator.
He gets one extra attack, which turns into three hit rolls from Sweeping Attacks.
That being said, he has, what? 6 Attacks?
So that's 18 hit rolls with sweeping blows. Even proccing DttFE on a 5+, he should get an average of 36 attacks. The odds of getting 54 are pretty damn slim, requiring 12 5+ on 18 dice.
I think he was given additional attacks maybe? But he definitely rolled 10 or 11 5+, it was ugly. So Prescience for the increased DTTFE, not sure what else. He had a lot of psykers. Very similar to this
bullyboy wrote: hey guys, played vs a Daemon army for first time last week and was hit by Mortarian (souped up with psychic powers) that basically generated 54 attacks against my unit. Since I'm unfamiliar with this (it was a tournament, so wasn't going to bog it down by asking all how all the bonuses stacked) could someone enlighten me how this is done (so I'm better prepared next time). I believe it had to do with sweeping attacks, Death to the False Emperor on 5+ and those extra attacks spawning into 3 attacks, etc.
Cheers
From what you say, it sounds illegal. Morty does have sweeping attacks, and he can generate bonus attacks from DTTFE on 5+, when he gets +1 to hit. But he doesnt get 3 additional attacks. Thats the warlord trait from CSM chapter ultimate confidence, morty cant use that, he is death guard. His warlord trait is fixed, its arch-contaminator.
He gets one extra attack, which turns into three hit rolls from Sweeping Attacks.
That being said, he has, what? 6 Attacks?
So that's 18 hit rolls with sweeping blows. Even proccing DttFE on a 5+, he should get an average of 36 attacks. The odds of getting 54 are pretty damn slim, requiring 12 5+ on 18 dice.
Throw in Diabolic Strength for +1A and Blades of Putrefaction for MW galore and his damage output reaches terrifying heights
Also, don’t forget that he can advance - twice, with Warptime - and still shoot & charge if he starts his turn next to a Gnarlmaw
No because you have to place any new models within 2" of a model that was on the board at the start of the phase. It's in one of the FAQs. So the most you can reduce the charge by splitting is 3". 9.1" away, 2" + 25mm base (0.98") brings you down to 6.12" needing a 6 on the charge roll, 5 with an instrument.
I think you refer to this :
Q: Some rules allow me to add models to a unit during the battle
(e.g. the Poxwalker’s Curse of the Walking Pox ability). Where are
those models set up?
A: Unless otherwise stated, these new models are placed
anywhere that is more than 1" from any enemy model and
still within unit coherency of a model in its own unit that
was itself on the battlefield at the start of the phase in
which the new model was created. Note that if you cannot
set up a new model on the battlefield because there is no
room, it is simply not set up.
Note that it says unless otherwise stated. The split rule has specific instructions how to place the blue horrors. The FAQ above only applies if there are no specific instructions how to place new models. The blue horrors must still be placed within unit coherency, because they are added to the pink horror unit.
Split
Each time a Pink Horror is slain, you can add up to two Blue Horrors to this unit before you remove the slain model. Each time a Blue Horror is slain, you can add one pair of Brimstone Horrors to this unit before you remove the slain model. The replacement models cannot be placed within 1" of an enemy model. Note that Horrors that flee do not generate any extra models for their unit. Matched Play: In matched play you must pay reinforcement points for each and every Blue and Brimstone Horror model that you add to a unit of Horrors, but the additional models can take the unit above its starting strength.
1 dead pink can split into 2 blues bringing it down to 3.14" without an instrument. It's a hell of a gimmick but easily countered by not shooting overwatch into them.
Well, the rules say you can attempt to fire overwatch. Which means you dont have to. So this trick can work if your opponent doesnt know the split rule.
And also, don't you have to place both Blues in coherency with an already-existing model?
I dont think so. The split rule has specific instructions how to place new models. Which means the FAQ answer from the poxwalkers dont apply to horrors.
Well, the rules say you can attempt to fire overwatch. Which means you dont have to. So this trick can work if your opponent doesnt know the split rule.
And also, don't you have to place both Blues in coherency with an already-existing model?
I dont think so. The split rule has specific instructions how to place new models. Which means the FAQ answer from the poxwalkers dont apply to horrors.
While fun to have another RAW vs RAI argument, the practical answer is if you are planning to do this in a tournament setting run it by the TO beforehand. I can easily see many TO giving you a tableside ruling that this isn't possible.
Similarly in a fun/casual game it would be good to give your opponent a heads up.
And also, don't you have to place both Blues in coherency with an already-existing model?
I dont think so. The split rule has specific instructions how to place new models. Which means the FAQ answer from the poxwalkers dont apply to horrors.
That's not a FAQ specific to poxwalkers it just uses poxwalkers as an example. It's part of the main rule book FAQ. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a TO that rules that this FAQ doesn't affect horrors. Especially cause I recall that FAQ was a direct result of the Death Blossom list which combined splitting horrors with hordes of poxwalkers.
Yeah, it was FAQ. Poxwalkers was the example in the question. But if you got an instrument it will only be something like 5-6”.
Thinking on testing a 20man unit with 4-10blue horrors and instrument. Hopefully a few pinks will die so I can place blue ones here and there and make a multi charge simply to tie up as many units I can. Only thing I need to take care of is killing units that deny my conga line.
I'm thinking of dusting off my deamons. Supreme command of 3 renegade commanders to summon. Tzeench heralds, flamers, and exalted flamers in a vanguard. Nurgle battalion with 120 plague bearers. Break the rule of 3 with summoning for more flamers and exalted flamers. The exhausted should be safe behind everything else. I have 21 flamer models from 6th ed when they were stupid OP.
In my experience, while the Rule of Three is not a de facto rule, it is treated as if it is by the community at large. Trying to simply ignore it would not work out well, I'd wager.
That said, yeah, the RoT is a list-building restriction. Summoning sidesteps the RoT, it doesn't 'break' it.
I do not deep strike anything so far. I'm able to grab a lot of board control and react where needed. I have managed to pull off some fun flanking maneuvers with the Seekers/Exalted chariots as well.
So far I've tested the list against Genestealer Cults and a mix of Tzeentch Daemons/Thousand Sons and it's held up fairly well and it's fun to use.
Hmm. That looks like quite the exciting rushdown list. I should imagine that, whether you go first or not, you’ll get quite a few units drawn into some spiky tarpits. What’s your approach to Warlord and Relic selection?
lindsay40k wrote: Hmm. That looks like quite the exciting rushdown list. I should imagine that, whether you go first or not, you’ll get quite a few units drawn into some spiky tarpits. What’s your approach to Warlord and Relic selection?
It's definitely fun to use with the amount of the speed it has haha. I've definitely gotten into someones lines a lot quicker with this list, and it's the entire force instead of piece meal so that helps. (or everyone is dead, which also helps shorten the game LOL).
My approach to warlord and relic selection has been pretty simple. I want the +1 to str buff on the Keepers so I make the Epitome the Warlord and give it Celerity of Slaanesh to make sure it can keep up with them. It also makes sure nothing can run from them if they get stuck in on something (fiends make double sure of that). For relics I just give one of the keepers the soulstealer, usually the one with the sinostrous hand just to double up on it but I'm gonna try giving it to the lady with the whip to spread the healing out. Haven't tested out using the gem or anything yet... I want to save the CP.
Guys stupid question but I must be stupid cause i cant find an answer. Can units be summoned in using Demonic Summoning Turn 1? I am afraid i cant find where it says you cant, but my opponent says due to the April FAQ that they cant be summoned due to reserves. I looked through the FAQ but i guess the stupid in me is winning out cause I am understanding that the demonic summoning would be except . Can anyone give an opinion. I have attached the faq if that helps at all.
It's just to bad that Slaanesh no longer has her Slicing Shards spell it would fit so well with the theme. I got a second box of endless spells to convert up Mesmerizing Mirror as a second Contorted Epitome.
