Faith points per turn as per 4th edition
Acts of Faith as per 4th edition
Torrent AP 2 flamers on Immolators (with scout)
Penitent Engines to FS and points cost reduction
Alternative to Rhino Spam
Plastic Sisters Boxset
Plastic Seraphim
Assault vehicle for Repentia
AV 14 Flying Church (Monolith style)
AV 14 LR-style Church vehicle
Ignores Cover on Exorcists as an upgrade

Any more?

Probably should be in proposed rules.

Holy crap you've got a wish list there.

Faith points weren't 'per turn' in 3rd/4th. They were total per game. They are per turn now.

AP2 Flamers with Torrent on Immos? With Scout? Good god man.

Penitents should be in Elite. It would mean they might actually get fielded.

There's already an alternative to rhino spam.

Assault Vehicle in general. EVen if it is the LR church would be great.

Flying church? Not so sure about that.

Ignores cover would be cool since I always pictured the missiles coming down from above.

Actual love from GW would be nice.

What SOB really need are:

- Plastic troops (at minimum)
- Secondary troops choice (Frateris or Redemptionists would be fine)
- Expanded wargear section ala current 6th ed codexes
- Allow current HQs access to the wargear
- Reduction in points for Priests
- Reapproach or rejigger for faith and the faith system. I'm a fan of the 3rd ed C:CA version.
- Roles for Celestians. Right now they have no real role in the army.
- Flyer or flying defense

I think a specific fortification that can only be taken by them would be cool. Or a purchasable upgrade for a fortification to make it a holy site.

Manchu's Sisters of Battle Wish List:

- Sixth Edition Codex
- Plastic Sisters

How about more reasonably;

Scaling faith points (1d3 per 500 points per turn)

Fast immolators with a Fire Point.

A Priest character (not special character) who makes Penitent Engines elites AND heavy (like MoTF for dreadnoughts)

Alternate Fire mode for Exorcists, like the Whirlwind has - only instead of S8 AP HeavyD6, it's S5 AP4 Barrage, Large Blast, Ignores Cover. Oh, and Exorcists can be squadronned (but maybe with a max of 3 per detachment, so you can have 3 squadrons of 1 exorcist, or 1 squadron of 3 exorcists, but not 3 squadrons of 3 exorcists).

 Manchu wrote:
Manchu's Sisters of Battle Wish List:

- Sixth Edition Codex
- Plastic Sisters

Seconded!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
How about more reasonably;

Scaling faith points (1d3 per 500 points per turn)

Why not just go back to the old way and have a pool for the game?

Alternate Fire mode for Exorcists, like the Whirlwind has - only instead of S8 AP HeavyD6, it's S5 AP4 Barrage, Large Blast, Ignores Cover. Oh, and Exorcists can be squadronned (but maybe with a max of 3 per detachment, so you can have 3 squadrons of 1 exorcist, or 1 squadron of 3 exorcists, but not 3 squadrons of 3 exorcists).

edit: Wait, so I can't read correctly. This sounds reasonable.

No, re-read it.

I said a squadron, but a cap of 3 per detachment. So 3 exorcists total, but you can field them as a squadron or as individual units.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
No, re-read it.

I said a squadron, but a cap of 3 per detachment. So 3 exorcists total, but you can field them as a squadron or as individual units.

Doh! I can't read.

:p So, in revision to that knowledge, you opinion of the idea?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
:p So, in revision to that knowledge, you opinion of the idea?

I edited my post.

Alternate fire would have to be more points. Other than that, reasonable.

pretre wrote:Why not just go back to the old way and have a pool for the game?

Personally, I like the "per turn" more. In a way, I suppose it just feels more fluffy.
Morale waxes and wanes as long as a battle rages. Of course one could also argue that it'd make sense for the SoB to lose their inspiration after they've exhausted themselves, but meh. Mechanically, I feel the old system favoured an "all or nothing" approach where AoF would often be conserved until a specific moment in battle, whereas with the new rules they remain an aspect of the army for the entire battle. That just sounds more interesting to me.

I do feel the system could be tweaked and expanded, though. Aside from making it scale to army size or allowing to choose from a list of multiple AoF again rather than having them be "squad-exclusive", it might be neat if there were more "conditions" that would affect FP generation or AoF reliability. Nothing too complicated, though. I feel the basic idea to make them less complicated and more fluid (specifically rolling whether an AoF was success or failure) in 5E was a good one.

pretre wrote:

- Plastic Sisters

Seconded!

Bah. Only if they continue to sell the old 10x metal girls boxes too. Priced like the IG.


Anyways, here's my list(s):

Must Have's
- 6E Codex.
- Faith Pool (per turn!) scales with army size
- Make the Canoness awesome again. SCs suck.
- WTB Wargear (ties in with the above). Where's mah sarissas? Where's me books!

Cool Stuff
- CC viability for Celestians (powersword and storm shields?)
- Frateris Militia (you know you wanna)
- Give us back the Palatine. Cheaper HQs for cheaper games.
- Actual SoB characters. If you really need to throw SC at us, at least give us Praxedes and Helena back rather than Space Angel and Cardinal Oldfart.
- Valkyrie Dropships!

Maybe's
- Centurion-style exosuits as heavy SoB melee specialists (think Ripley's Powerloader with added armour, sword, kite shield and flamer)
- Dominica-pattern Drop Pods (could be unlockable by taking a Canoness for HQ)
- Lightning Fighter (same as above)
- Novice Squads
- Phosphor Grenades?
- Return of the Rites of Battle. They were a cool and fluffy idea!
- Solo Repentias (the CA09 version just sounded awesome and characterful in terms of style)

 Lynata wrote:
Bah. Only if they continue to sell the old 10x metal girls boxes too. Priced like the IG.

Why would we still want the nonexistent metal box?

- Make the Canoness awesome again. SCs suck.
- WTB Wargear (ties in with the above). Where's mah sarissas?

Did you actually ever use sarissas? They were horrible. I think just having a 6th ed wargear section and giving Canoness' access would be pretty good. Also, give them some sort of force multiplier power.

- CC viability for Celestians (powersword and storm shields?)
- Frateris Militia (you know you wanna)
- Give us back the Palatine. Cheaper HQs for cheaper games.
- Actual SoB characters. If you really need to throw SC at us, at least give us Praxedes and Helena back rather than Space Angel and Cardinal Oldfart.
- Valkyrie Dropships!

I could see these. Although I never saw the reason for a Palatine other than you wanted to spend no points on your HQ. We already have dirt cheap HQs, how much cheaper can they get?

- Centurion-style exosuits as heavy SoB melee specialists (think Ripley's Powerloader with added armour, sword, kite shield and flamer)

This is worrisome. I would rather they fix PE.

- Dominica-pattern Drop Pods (could be unlockable by taking a Canoness for HQ)

Yay, CJ units!

- Novice Squads

Never been a fan.

- Return of the Rites of Battle. They were a cool and fluffy idea!

Could be cool.

 pretre wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Bah. Only if they continue to sell the old 10x metal girls boxes too. Priced like the IG.

Why would we still want the nonexistent metal box?

He likes the weight.

pretre wrote:Why would we still want the nonexistent metal box?

"Some" people like metal more than plastic?

[edit] Exactly - see Manchu

pretre wrote:Did you actually ever use sarissas? They were horrible.

They were! But the concept was sound. I think just tweaking them a little would or at least making them cheaper would make this a cool option. I mean, boltguns with melee attachments... What's not to like!

pretre wrote:I could see these. Although I never saw the reason for a Palatine other than you wanted to spend no points on your HQ. We already have dirt cheap HQs, how much cheaper can they get?

I admit it's more of a style choice. Perhaps the Canoness can be made a little more expensive if she's made a bit better, either in raw stats or some sort of special ability. Ultimately, I just like the idea of having a choice between Palatine and Canoness, similar to how SM players can choose between Captain and Chapter Master.
From memory, I thought the 3E Palatine was especially useful for small 500 pts games. It was fluffy to have "just" a Palatine with the army, and you could save a few points to get more stuff for the troops.

It's certainly not a must-have, I just think it was a mistake to take her away once this rank was established in 3E.

pretre wrote:This is worrisome. I would rather they fix PE.

Why not both? I wouldn't see them in direct competition - at least not more than Centurions are with Dreads. Plus, PEs are Ecclesiarchy stuff. Having a lighter "pure SoB" melee thingie would be neat for that alone.
I guess it's an idée fixe I got after participating in that Centurion fluff thread here on dakka. At first I was opposed to the idea, but the more I thought about it ... and then I got that image of Ripley in Aliens stuck in my head.

Ideally, I think a new Codex should offer options to run a mix of SoB and Ecclesiarchy, or pure SoB lists, or even pure Ecclesiarchy lists!

 Kain wrote:
Actual love from GW would be nice.

Tender love at that. None of this "bend you over the table" nonsense.

More on topic my wishlist is:

Combine 3rd and 5th Edition's Faith Rules: 1 point per Adeptus Sororitas Unit on the table per player turn. Unused points expire at the end of the turn and Characters with the Faithful Special Rule generate 2 points instead of 1 (Canoness/Palatine).
Give Immolaters either Fast when equipped with Heavy Flamers or Torrent
Make Sarissas a good option (1ppm with a Bolter, only usable by models with bolters, reroll wound rolls of 1 in close combat)
Generic Living Saint Options
Alternate Seraphim with Storm Shield/Power Lances as Elites
Canoness with Jump Pack Again
Restore 3rd Ed Wargear, add in combi-flamer option use with CCWs, make Burning Brazier work like Burna Boyz (power weapon if it hasn't been fired during that player turn)
Make Celestians awesome again
Citadel Journal Drop Pods!
Give Penitent Engines access to Multi-Meltas and Heavy Bolters as well as their standard Heavy Flamers, make them 10-20 points cheaper per model
Adamantium Will and Preferred Enemy (Psyker) on the entire army.
Zealots back into the army (second troops choice!) Unit size 5-50.
Repentia in a 5-20 Squad Size
BSS in 5-20 Squad Size (so they can ride in Immolators again)
BSS unlock special or heavy at 5 models, an additional special at 10, another special or heavy at 15 and another special at 20
Blessed Ammo and Promethium back!
Quit letting the Repentia hog all the Eviscerators!
Keep the style of specific faith powers per unit, but make the powers useful in all three phases
Steal a note from IG and port Avenger Strike Fighters and Repressors over from FW (they won't mind the extra sales, honest!)
Valkyries as a transport aircraft. No Vendettas, just Valkyries.

Okay, I got that out of my system!

EDIT: Forgot one:
Light tank (12/11/10) with the Inferno Cannon/Melta Cannon and Avenger Megabolter as turret options.

Great ideas! Keep them coming.

I want Sisters to be a force to be reckoned with in 6E. Tau killers and Eldar rapers.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Great ideas! Keep them coming.

I want Sisters to be a force to be reckoned with in 6E. Tau killers and Eldar rapers.

Not really their thing, by fluff. They're (supposed to be) a MEQ-killer, an Armor-Killer and a Horde-Killer (what with all the flamers and the meltas and the missile-launching pipe-organ tanks). They also simply won't have the range to compete with Tau or Eldar in 6th meta, without fundamentally changing the wargear they're equipped with. They're a close/mid shooty army, primarily, with some decent assault units *provided* those units can actually get into melee.

Done right, I think the Sisters in 6th will be a solid mid-tier, maybe even edging into upper-tier army, but I don't see them getting enough of a boost to challenge Tau or Eldar, not in a competitive-play environment, anyway.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I want Sisters to be a force to be reckoned with in 6E. Tau killers and Eldar rapers.

You know that SOB are actually really well positioned to deal with Tau and Eldar right? I laugh at all those giant MCs.

 pretre wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I want Sisters to be a force to be reckoned with in 6E. Tau killers and Eldar rapers.

You know that SOB are actually really well positioned to deal with Tau and Eldar right? I laugh at all those giant MCs.

Nothing funnier than watching your opponent's MC disappear in a pink mist after being barraged by Exorcists. Quickest I've pulled it off to date was Turn 1 against a Hive Tyrant. Rolls 6 shots, hit with all 6, wounded with 5 and it was -gone- thanks to not having any cover once so ever. I'd only meant to wound it a little.

Since you all already have the crunch side well covered...

- Badass fluff: More of what we've seen in the past, really. Some stories about them zealously fighting whatever foes the galaxy has to offer.
- More in-depth fluff: I'd like to hear more detail on some things. Like the different Major Orders, how they recruit, and just what is up with the white hair?
- Cool artwork: This will probably be a given, but it's still something I'm very much looking forward to.

But, as for crunch, zealot mobs would be very interesting. Essentially, they'd be cultist equivilants.

 Troike wrote:
But, as for crunch, zealot mobs would be very interesting. Essentially, they'd be cultist equivilants.

Just cut and paste the redemptionist rules out of codex: chapter approved. Done.

 Troike wrote:
Since you all already have the crunch side well covered...

- Badass fluff: More of what we've seen in the past, really. Some stories about them zealously fighting whatever foes the galaxy has to offer.
- More in-depth fluff: I'd like to hear more detail on some things. Like the different Major Orders, how they recruit, and just what is up with the white hair?
- Cool artwork: This will probably be a given, but it's still something I'm very much looking forward to.

But, as for crunch, zealot mobs would be very interesting. Essentially, they'd be cultist equivilants.

A detailed explanation of how Sisters are chosen and trained would be cool too!
More details, fluff, and some crazy cool relics that light people on fire!

And Zealots are from WD 292.

ClockworkZion wrote:
And Zealots are from WD 292.

Nononono.

Seriously. Dig up a copy of the old redemptionist rules from Codex: Chapter Approved. The Zealots were watered down versions they put out. The Reds were soooo much better.

 pretre wrote:
Just cut and paste the redemptionist rules out of codex: chapter approved. Done.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, it's funny how much the SoB could be improved just by giving them back stuff that they used to have.

The white hair is, iirc, specific to the Order of Our Martyred Lady. It's a thing they do to honor Saint Katherine, the first Canoness of the Order, following the end of the Age of Apostasy.

 Troike wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Just cut and paste the redemptionist rules out of codex: chapter approved. Done.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, it's funny how much the SoB could be improved just by giving them back stuff that they used to have.

Yep, just give them back the stuff from C:CA and we'd be good. The only bad thing there was that Exorcists were only AP3.

 pretre wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
And Zealots are from WD 292.

Nononono.

Seriously. Dig up a copy of the old redemptionist rules from Codex: Chapter Approved. The Zealots were watered down versions they put out. The Reds were soooo much better.

Yeah, most of us can't find that damned thing. It's on a long list of books and publications I haven't been able to find.

Zealots to me seemed like a tweak on Frateris Militia honestly, but that's because I've never seen the Redeptionist rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I stand corrected, I just used Google and finally managed to find a copy.

Sadly this isn't the first time I've tried either.

I'll see if I can scan it tonight for funsies.

 pretre wrote:
I'll see if I can scan it tonight for funsies.

I appreciate it but I found it. First link I saw too. Unless your's isn't the 2004 one and is a different one, in which case then yes, scans please!

Chapter Approved 2001 is what you want, iirc. I'll check later.

Wait, are we talking about the Redemptionists found in Second Book of the Astronomicon who are a powerful sect within the Ecclesiarchy. And preach a violent creed of persecution, paranoia and xenophobia and see humans as inherent sinners unless proven otherwise (by joining the Redemptionists). Also they frequently gather during a War of Faith so that hey may cleanse the Emperor's enemies with fire, plasma, and whirling blades! Those Redemptionists?

Just flipped through the 2004 one and it only had the Immolator in it. D:

 Psienesis wrote:
The white hair is, iirc, specific to the Order of Our Martyred Lady. It's a thing they do to honor Saint Katherine, the first Canoness of the Order, following the end of the Age of Apostasy.

But I'm not sure that that's ever actually been said in the fluff, pretty sure it's just a fan theory. Though it would make complete sense. Martyred Lady seems to have a thing for altering their colours to represent major events in their history. They made their armour black when Katherine died, and they made their robes red after fighting in Armageddon.

And, since they've come up, I'm predicting that Martyred Lady will be the first to get a supplement. Not that I mind too much. They're cool, but it'd be nice to see the other Orders get more of the spotlight. A Valorous Heart supp would probably be a lot of fun, so I'll wish for that, I guess.

Yeah, TBH, Martyred Lady has gotten the lion's (lioness' ?) share of attention from the studio and third-party companies for most of the faction's life.

This is the same Order that met the Necrons at Sanctuary 101, was the Order to which Canoness Praxedes belonged to prior to becoming a martyr, was present for the Third War of Armageddon, and is the home Order of boh Ephrael Stern *and* Miriael Sabathiel!

GW needs to spread the fame out to some other Orders Militant, methinks.

 Psienesis wrote:
Yeah, TBH, Martyred Lady has gotten the lion's (lioness' ?) share of attention from the studio and third-party companies for most of the faction's life.

This is the same Order that met the Necrons at Sanctuary 101, was the Order to which Canoness Praxedes belonged to prior to becoming a martyr, was present for the Third War of Armageddon, and is the home Order of boh Ephrael Stern *and* Miriael Sabathiel!

GW needs to spread the fame out to some other Orders Militant, methinks.

Yeah, they're our "Ultramarines".

 Psienesis wrote:
and is the home Order of boh Ephrael Stern *and* Miriael Sabathiel!

And Celestine. And Miriya.

Yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, the fixation on ML is rather extreme. I hope that the new codex is more well-rounded, fleshing out the Orders more.

 Troike wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
and is the home Order of boh Ephrael Stern *and* Miriael Sabathiel!

And Celestine. And Miriya.

Yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, the fixation on ML is rather extreme. I hope that the new codex is more well-rounded, fleshing out the Orders more.

Amen. I'm all for getting new fun history about other orders. Hell give a supplement to each of the 6 so we can have LOTS more history! I'll buy them all!

Here's the old redemptionist entry:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
20 Fearless dudes with 4 Eviscerators. Oh and they got faith so they could get 4+ FNP (or its equivalent) and rending and plusses to initiative, etc.

Umm. It is chapter approved 2002. I found a copy and am looking for a place to put it now.

AHa, found another one: http://www.scribd.com/doc/54418386/Warhammer-40k-Codex-Chapter-Approved-2002

Looks good. I still think the number should be 5-50 though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd totally pay 250 points for a mob of 50 guys to screen my army with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay...that and the points for the Priest and the 10 Eviscerators that'd be mixed in.

 pretre wrote:
Here's the old redemptionist entry:

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
20 Fearless dudes with 4 Eviscerators. Oh and they got faith so they could get 4+ FNP (or its equivalent) and rending and plusses to initiative, etc.

Umm. It is chapter approved 2002. I found a copy and am looking for a place to put it now.

AHa, found another one: http://www.scribd.com/doc/54418386/Warhammer-40k-Codex-Chapter-Approved-2002

HOLY CRAP!

That is the WORST (best?) pile of cheese I have EVER seen!

160 points for 80 BS3, S7, AP4, 48", Twin-Linked shots per turn!? From man-sized infantry!?

How about having both Zealots and Redemptionists? They'd be like the difference between IG Conscripts and normal line infantry, so to say. We could either have them as two distinct units, or Redemptionists just being an "upgrade" to Zealots, both of them sharing an entry as "Frateris Militia".

I only used Zealots once, but it was very ... entertaining. When it comes to being cannonfodder, the IG can take a page from them. Had a blob of 20 in a line. Not one of them survived Turn 2, but the Sisters following behind catched little to no enemy fire.

Troike wrote:Like the different Major Orders, how they recruit

Recruitment was kind of dealt with in the background articles for Anastasia and Ephrael - but I certainly agree it deserves a reprint / to be fleshed out more.

ClockworkZion wrote:Amen. I'm all for getting new fun history about other orders. Hell give a supplement to each of the 6 so we can have LOTS more history!

Hmm, a bit split on this one. It's kind of the Sisters' thing that the Orders don't differ much from each other and about them sharing a single lineage and being connected through their origin on San Leor etc ...

How big are those supplements? Perhaps it could work if it's really just some history and maybe 1-2 special characters. Or a special relic that can be carried into battle by that Order? I wouldn't want them to feel too different from one another, but I suppose there may be some ways to differentiate them a bit... How about "variant" units that are slightly different than the standard (such as a special Dominion squad for the Bloody Rose), with a bit of background on how they came to be and a note that they are currently being evaluated for general adoption by the Sororitas, or that the Order was chastised for the breach of doctrine and that the primary Convent is currently debating the disbandment of those units? A sort of compromise between "we're kind of all the same" and "yeah new units!", if you will.

The part of me that went out and bought a book and four infantry models for nearly 200 dollars likes the "YEAH! New stuff!" part. The part of me that a week later went, "Oh Emperor, I spent nearly two hundred dollars on a thin book and no more plastic than would be used in a Tactical Squad..." is liking the "Yeah, they're all pretty much the same," part. But the part of me that is sad when my cuddlefox is sad is like, "Enh, I probably won't get the supplements regardless since I use totally custom fluff that might even contradict a major point about the Sororitas, so whatever makes the other people happy is fine." That part of me also goes, "Yay! Redemptionists and Zealots for other people!"

160 points for 80 BS3, S7, AP4, 48", Twin-Linked shots per turn!? From man-sized infantry!?

This..... this is how the Age of Apostasy came to an end.

Sebastian Thor got a *whole lot* of these 180 point mobs, and marched across the stars to Terra.

 Psienesis wrote:

160 points for 80 BS3, S7, AP4, 48", Twin-Linked shots per turn!? From man-sized infantry!?

This..... this is how the Age of Apostasy came to an end.

Sebastian Thor got a *whole lot* of these 180 point mobs, and marched across the stars to Terra.

: D

No, see, I'm playing silly for giggles by deliberately misinterpreting what an "exterminator" is.

I think I'm funny, but I'm not.

As far as I can tell, Ephrael Stern had white hair, and for a very long time she was the only Sister to appear in colour artwork aside from the original cover for Codex: SoB (who had black and white hair)... so most everyone, including the studio painters, decided that they should all have white hair as part of the uniform (although later art mixed things up a bit, and even in Daemonifuge there were Sisters with hair shaded to imply colour).

Ooh, there's something else for my Adepta Sororitas Wishlist!

The Daughters of the Emperor originally fought with bastard swords and heavy armour. So, I want a unit of Sororitas swordswomen hailing from San Leor itself!

 Lynata wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:Amen. I'm all for getting new fun history about other orders. Hell give a supplement to each of the 6 so we can have LOTS more history!

Hmm, a bit split on this one. It's kind of the Sisters' thing that the Orders don't differ much from each other and about them sharing a single lineage and being connected through their origin on San Leor etc ...

How big are those supplements? Perhaps it could work if it's really just some history and maybe 1-2 special characters. Or a special relic that can be carried into battle by that Order? I wouldn't want them to feel too different from one another, but I suppose there may be some ways to differentiate them a bit... How about "variant" units that are slightly different than the standard (such as a special Dominion squad for the Bloody Rose), with a bit of background on how they came to be and a note that they are currently being evaluated for general adoption by the Sororitas, or that the Order was chastised for the breach of doctrine and that the primary Convent is currently debating the disbandment of those units? A sort of compromise between "we're kind of all the same" and "yeah new units!", if you will.

Each Order has different unique histories, temperaments and I'm willing to bet relics. Even if it isn't much there is enough there to spice things up a bit.

 Pouncey wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Here's the old redemptionist entry:

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
20 Fearless dudes with 4 Eviscerators. Oh and they got faith so they could get 4+ FNP (or its equivalent) and rending and plusses to initiative, etc.

Umm. It is chapter approved 2002. I found a copy and am looking for a place to put it now.

AHa, found another one: http://www.scribd.com/doc/54418386/Warhammer-40k-Codex-Chapter-Approved-2002

HOLY CRAP!

That is the WORST (best?) pile of cheese I have EVER seen!

160 points for 80 BS3, S7, AP4, 48", Twin-Linked shots per turn!? From man-sized infantry!?

Lol Sisters basic infantry used to be able to outshoot everything... Imagine facing first turn and 120 autocannons shoot at you.

I'm missing something. How do you get eighty twin-linked autocannon shots out of a squad that can carry two autocannons per ten troopers at the most?

I'll post this, just because it's useful when discussing the different Orders.

 Lynata wrote:
Hmm, a bit split on this one. It's kind of the Sisters' thing that the Orders don't differ much from each other and about them sharing a single lineage and being connected through their origin on San Leor etc ...

I don't see it as too much of a problem. They're all still SoBs, fighting for the Ecclesiarchy and all just as faithful to their God. You won't get widely varying goals and organisation like with the Astartes, so there's little risk of "over diversifying" them.

 Lynata wrote:
How about "variant" units that are slightly different than the standard (such as a special Dominion squad for the Bloody Rose), with a bit of background on how they came to be and a note that they are currently being evaluated for general adoption by the Sororitas, or that the Order was chastised for the breach of doctrine and that the primary Convent is currently debating the disbandment of those units? A sort of compromise between "we're kind of all the same" and "yeah new units!", if you will.

Or you can just say that the the given units are just naturally better than their equivilants in other Orders, due to that Order's emphasis on that unit. There's not necessarily a need for "variants". For exmaple, Sacred Rose's thing about trying to keep a cool, rational head could translate into a buff on Retributors.Something like that wouldn't be particularly "new" or controversial in the Orders Militant, just Sacred Rose Ret's being better with their heavy weapons.

Or, to give another example, VH's excess of Repentia could unlock them as a troop choice (given they have so many) and perhaps buff them (could be explained as their Repentias becoming more skilled as a result of having more fellow Repentias to learn from, or something). Still nothing lore-breaking, but it would quite nicely differentiate them as a faciton.

ClockworkZion wrote:
Each Order has different unique histories, temperaments and I'm willing to bet relics. Even if it isn't much there is enough there to spice things up a bit.

There's more than enough, IMO. As you've said, they're already quite distinct. It is, quite literally, just a matter of fleshing them out. And they could really use it, as we've said. Too much Martyred Lady.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I'm missing something. How do you get eighty twin-linked autocannon shots out of a squad that can carry two autocannons per ten troopers at the most?

i think they are misconstruing what an exterminator is. For reds they are one shot hand flamers not autocannons.

 pretre wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I'm missing something. How do you get eighty twin-linked autocannon shots out of a squad that can carry two autocannons per ten troopers at the most?

i think they are misconstruing what an exterminator is. For reds they are one shot hand flamers not autocannons.

Not even.

Once per battle in the first round of an assault (whether they charge or get charged), they are used. The attack is worked out at Initiative 8 and are in addition to the models normal attacks. The roll needed to hit is based on the number of models firing (all models must fire), hit with Str 4, AP5.

Right, one shot flamers. That's what I said. Read the description. Little flame packs ontheir weapons. I have 60 of the damn things.

Bonus: you could make all cc attacks rend so the exterminators could rend as well. I made a lot of terminators cry back in the day. Like 80 normal rending and 20 chain fist attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And this was when you could consolidate into fresh combats. You either stopped the 40 crazies before they hit your dz or lost.

Except flamers are ranged weapons. These are more akin to Fletchette Launchers.

They could always use a unit with possibly 5+ or 4+ inv. saves. I was also thinking at the very least they should get artificer armor (that has a lot of holy art and emblems on it). They could definitely use more toys though. Something very fanatical, suicidal, full of martyrdom and insanity.

I still wish they got a martyrdom ability. Something like the more of them died the stronger they got. Dunno how they'd work it. Could work like if a squad gets some of its members killed it takes a leadership check and if passed gains something from martyrdom or a point towards it. In this way if somebody attacks multiple squads and doesn't take any out they all get martyrdom points.

I believe faith should still be in there (heh faith and believing). Possibly more craziness like a faith power can unlock inv. saves, to hit or to wound bonuses, higher toughness or armor, better initiative or movement or some sort of jetpack ability. I imagine they could have a sort of 'walking on water' faith power.

 pretre wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I'm missing something. How do you get eighty twin-linked autocannon shots out of a squad that can carry two autocannons per ten troopers at the most?

i think they are misconstruing what an exterminator is. For reds they are one shot hand flamers not autocannons.

Deliberately, too. : D

And the Exterminator is a Leman Russ variant named for its turret weapon, the Exterminator Autocannon, which is like a twin-linked autocannon with double the normal number of shots.

Sometimes I like to play dumb because I think it'll make people laugh. Sometimes people call me a troll for it.

Psienesis wrote:

160 points for 80 BS3, S7, AP4, 48", Twin-Linked shots per turn!? From man-sized infantry!?

This..... this is how the Age of Apostasy came to an end.

Sebastian Thor got a *whole lot* of these 180 point mobs, and marched across the stars to Terra.

Exalted.

Troike wrote:Or you can just say that the the given units are just naturally better than their equivilants in other Orders, due to that Order's emphasis on that unit. There's not necessarily a need for "variants".

I'd actually prefer that - but do you think it's "cool" enough to be viable for a supplement? This is just a wild guess but I'd reckon they would aim to put something more "special" in there. But as I said, I have zero experience with the existing add-ons, so ...

Troike wrote:Or, to give another example, VH's excess of Repentia could unlock them as a troop choice (given they have so many) and perhaps buff them (could be explained as their Repentias becoming more skilled as a result of having more fellow Repentias to learn from, or something). Still nothing lore-breaking, but it would quite nicely differentiate them as a faciton.

Just give them this

flamingkillamajig wrote:Possibly more craziness like a faith power can unlock inv. saves, to hit or to wound bonuses, higher toughness or armor, better initiative or movement or some sort of jetpack ability. I imagine they could have a sort of 'walking on water' faith power.

Oh Emperor, no, anything but that! Their Acts of Faith are cool specifically because it's not obvious Space Magic but could also just be sheer badassness and luck (as the fluff actually says if you read carefully - "miraculous to the unschooled", "divine inspiration that drives them to unprecedented feats of prowess", ...).

It still irritates me to no end that somebody at FFG decided they should have them shoot lasers out of their eyes in that RPG.

Oh! I want to see the Repentia's Act of Faith become an army wide rule!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It just kind of struck me as a way to do Martyrdom for the army in a way that would be very in character and kinda of awesome in a "If I die, I'm taking you with me." sort of way.

And it's not really unbalanced as it's 1 attack if killed before you attack and you still have to hit and wound as normal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just change it from an Act of Faith you have to activate to something that's always active in the melee fighting sub-phase.

I just had to imagine how "Only in Death Does Duty End" would work out in a game. Imagine a wild mob of 30 chainsaw-swinging Repentias and a power-armoured Canoness + Command Squad charging you, and they all have a 5++ Invul Save, and in addition to this they have a 50% chance to simply ignore unsaved wounds.

Nasty.

I'm not too big on 'sisters of battle' but I think if nothing it could definitely have some aesthetic potential that most marine stuff just lacks. I'd imagine it like gothic artwork on power armor or artificer armor. Something ridiculously finely crafted....with possible burn marks on it hehe ;P (they do like flamers a lot).

Well do they have bolters with like incendiary rounds? Possibly give them specialty bolters that go through cover. We could also have what sternguard have or used to have. Give them like several sets of ammo and let them choose before shooting. For instance maybe they could have a gun that can be shot as a melta one turn and a flamer the next. That might be a bit stupidly strong though. Basically the flamer variant of the shot is just a melta shot that's spread out like a template rather than a single focused shot.

More incendiary variants of weapons. Maybe a type of weapon that's armor piercing and immolates something from the inside out? Would be interesting if it went through certain armor but if it hits could cause a wound from immolating inside said armor or some other suck thing.

Possibly an incense cloud that gives a cover bonus to sisters of battle. That sounds kind of dumb though. Then again GW has been known for dumber i'm sure.

I'd say give certain sisters a 'feel no pain' or something depending on how fanatical they are. Do repentia have it? Sorry I've been out of the loop for too long and never faced sisters for more than like 2-3 games.

They are a bit interesting though at least from an aesthetic perspective and acts of faith seem interesting.

I have to find it odd though. If sisters and their acts of faith aren't actual space magic then what exactly is 'the living saint'? If nothing else it's an advanced form of science bringing it back.

Anyway sisters need a dark elder reboot at this point. They could probably pull it off but nothing makes players hate an army more than sucking in-game or at least with certain models or units.

What about melee units for sisters that throw out a ton of strength 3 or 4 attacks. Kind of like a death company for sisters or like dark eldar wyches or striking scorpions for eldar.

Edit: I think my computer is auto-correcting my spelling for things like eldar.

Faith points can be used to give unit feel no pain. Or just army-wide feel no pain.

 Manchu wrote:
Manchu's Sisters of Battle Wish List:

- Sixth Edition Codex
- Plastic Sisters

I agree, give me this and I will be happy.

 Necrosis wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Manchu's Sisters of Battle Wish List:

- Sixth Edition Codex
- Plastic Sisters

I agree, give me this and I will be happy.

That's what the CSM players attitude was and look at what those Heretics got.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Necrosis wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Manchu's Sisters of Battle Wish List:

- Sixth Edition Codex
- Plastic Sisters

I agree, give me this and I will be happy.

That's what the CSM players attitude was and look at what those Heretics got.

I don't remember CSM having metal models that they had to buy in blisters.

 Necrosis wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Necrosis wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Manchu's Sisters of Battle Wish List:

- Sixth Edition Codex
- Plastic Sisters

I agree, give me this and I will be happy.

That's what the CSM players attitude was and look at what those Heretics got.

I don't remember CSM having metal models that they had to buy in blisters.

I meant more of them just wanting a new codex in the current edition.

 Necrosis wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Manchu's Sisters of Battle Wish List:

- Sixth Edition Codex
- Plastic Sisters

I agree, give me this and I will be happy.

I don't want some half assed codex. I want something playable and competitive.

flamingkillamajig wrote:I'm not too big on 'sisters of battle' but I think if nothing it could definitely have some aesthetic potential that most marine stuff just lacks. I'd imagine it like gothic artwork on power armor or artificer armor. Something ridiculously finely crafted....with possible burn marks on it hehe ;P (they do like flamers a lot).

You mean kind of like so?

flamingkillamajig wrote:Well do they have bolters with like incendiary rounds?

They had it as an upgrade for the Immolator - Blessed Ammunition, ignores cover. Though I think it'd be feasible to make something like this available for the infantry as well, at least some of them. I know there's incendiary bolt rounds in the fluff (see here), but I can't recall if they are actually used anywhere in the TT (Sternguard?)

flamingkillamajig wrote:Possibly an incense cloud that gives a cover bonus to sisters of battle. That sounds kind of dumb though. Then again GW has been known for dumber i'm sure.

For some reason I've now had to think of smoke or gas grenades in the shape of thuribles, dangling from the Sisters' belts, ready to be tossed at heretics. I need to write this down!

flamingkillamajig wrote:I'd say give certain sisters a 'feel no pain' or something depending on how fanatical they are. Do repentia have it?

Repentia have it!
I suppose one could argue that more of them should, but I have to admit I'm kind of sceptical about FNP in general. It seems like a hassle, mechanicswise. Dice inferno!

flamingkillamajig wrote:I have to find it odd though. If sisters and their acts of faith aren't actual space magic then what exactly is 'the living saint'? If nothing else it's an advanced form of science bringing it back.

There's multiple theories on what a Living Saint could actually be, ranging from a product of mass hallucination to propaganda+technology to her being a benign warp entity all unto herself. If you're interested, feel free to give this (and the linked post therein) a read.

Feel No Pain isn't that bad, you just have to re-roll all your failed saves and on a 5+ the model isn't dead! It's incredibly handy when you expect the model to be dead anyways.

Though seeing as that's the Iron Hand's thing I don't see us taking that from them.

Hmm, wasn't there some other Space Marines who have that, too?

But in a way, I agree. In terms of fluff representation, one could argue we already have it with the current version of the Shield of Faith. And with my comment I just meant that all those rolls and re-rolls may feel a bit "clunky". It's probably a debate for another thread, but it doesn't feel very "elegant".

@lynata: I mean like inscriptions on the power armor but also like angels weeping, a skeleton with a sword and other similar stuff you might see on a banner or such.

I don't know of an actual page that shows exactly what I mean but this is sort of an example of what I mean.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440192a&prodId=prod680007a

Kind of like a version of that except for sisters of battle and probably have more inscribed artwork of weeping angels with like the god emperor and a halo around him or him (in skeletal form) on his golden throne.

Possibly even have them with war machines that are in the form of angels crying with pure water or blood coming from the eyes. The blood part would be creepy but it is a bloody setting.

The smoke or gas grenades should work if they are in that shape. That actually works in my head. Possibly delusional fumes or something that ruins enemy BS or works like a form of defensive grenade.

I meant how sternguard from the space marines army have or had multiple ammo types for their specialty boltguns. Sisters could use their own specialty boltguns that fire different types of ammo.

I still say the 'sisters of battle' could use a unit with rosariuses or refractor fields. Possibly make them harder to kill should their armor not get saves.

------------

Remember though I am not knowledgeable of the sisters of battle by much at all. I'm aware of the 'age of apostasy' but not a whole lot more. It's a shame as if nothing else their aesthetic is very appealing. I dunno if i'd want sisters to have centurion suits. I'd rather not see them in terminator armor but artificer armor totally works in my eyes or a unit with a decent bunch of inv. saves.

flamingkillamajigg wrote:@lynata: I mean like inscriptions on the power armor but also like angels weeping, a skeleton with a sword and other similar stuff you might see on a banner or such.

Oh. Well, inscriptions are there. As for any images ... hmm, it shouldn't get overboard in that their armour looks "overloaded" with stuff. That being said, this was posted on GW's Armageddon3 website:

flamingkillamajig wrote:I still say the 'sisters of battle' could use a unit with rosariuses or refractor fields. Possibly make them harder to kill should their armor not get saves. [...] I dunno if i'd want sisters to have centurion suits. I'd rather not see them in terminator armor but artificer armor totally works in my eyes or a unit with a decent bunch of inv. saves.

Hmm, could work with that idea of giving Celestians access to Storm Shields. Those have a field generator built-in.

The idea i'm thinking of is some of the stuff you might see on banners.

For instance this banner from the vostroyan firstborn is a good one.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440247a&prodId=prod1070011

You could also have sisters that look like living statues or some sort of statues that have come alive.

 Lynata wrote:
Hmm, wasn't there some other Space Marines who have that, too?

But in a way, I agree. In terms of fluff representation, one could argue we already have it with the current version of the Shield of Faith. And with my comment I just meant that all those rolls and re-rolls may feel a bit "clunky". It's probably a debate for another thread, but it doesn't feel very "elegant".

Blood Angels with Sanguinary Priests. We don't really need a 3rd PA army with FnP I think.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Hmm, wasn't there some other Space Marines who have that, too?

But in a way, I agree. In terms of fluff representation, one could argue we already have it with the current version of the Shield of Faith. And with my comment I just meant that all those rolls and re-rolls may feel a bit "clunky". It's probably a debate for another thread, but it doesn't feel very "elegant".

Blood Angels with Sanguinary Priests. We don't really need a 3rd PA army with FnP I think.

So make Sanguinary Priests reasonable (only apply to the squad they join) and give us the FnP.

Lets face it, between Sanguinary Guard (Seraphim + CC), hand flamers, infernus pistols, fast flamerbacks and the Sanguinor, modern Blood Angels are pretty much a beefed up Sisters clone anyway.

hawkroot on warseer about new sob digidex wrote:celestine scoring warlord trait
penitent engines are mcs, moved to elite
base sister 10p, can be taken 5-20
celestians have free power weapons
exorcist skyfire upgrade
immolators flamer s4 ap3 torrent stock, cost unchanged, multimelta ugprade free
repentia 16p, 5++ SoF, 4+ fnp
retributors now have interceptor upgrade

oh boy

meh_ wrote:

hawkroot on warseer about new sob digidex wrote:celestine scoring warlord trait
penitent engines are mcs, moved to elite
base sister 10p, can be taken 5-20
celestians have free power weapons
exorcist skyfire upgrade
immolators flamer s4 ap3 torrent stock, cost unchanged, multimelta ugprade free
repentia 16p, 5++ SoF, 4+ fnp
retributors now have interceptor upgrade

oh boy

I would totally get my girls out of storage for this.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1352388/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

 Lynata wrote:
I suppose one could argue that more of them should, but I have to admit I'm kind of sceptical about FNP in general. It seems like a hassle, mechanicswise. Dice inferno!

And as I've noticed it's significantly less useful on T3 units than on T4 marines and such. Things like plasma guns that no longer deny you FNP (the AP in 5th FNP) are high enough strength to ID T3 so they still don't benefit, while T4 now does.

Not that Uriah Jacobus is worthless at the price - had some real fun with him in a 20-sister blob. ;-)

 Lynata wrote:
I'd actually prefer that - but do you think it's "cool" enough to be viable for a supplement?

Well that's generally how supplements have worked, right? Basically just a slightly different way of playing your force, with changes to particular units? Would fit the variances of the different Orders nicely.

 Lynata wrote:
Just give them this

Spoiler:

Ha! That would be a lot of fun to play.

Feth it, I'll paint my next SoBs as VH. They're too crazy/awesome not to.

hawkroot on warseer about new sob digidex wrote:celestine scoring warlord trait
penitent engines are mcs, moved to elite
celestians have free power weapons
immolators flamer s4 ap3 torrent stock, cost unchanged, multimelta ugprade free
repentia 16p, 5++ SoF, 4+ fnp

Oh emperor, all of those...

Especially dat Celestian upgrade...

hawkroot on warseer about new sob digidex wrote:celestine scoring warlord trait
penitent engines are mcs, moved to elite
base sister 10p, can be taken 5-20
celestians have free power weapons
exorcist skyfire upgrade
immolators flamer s4 ap3 torrent stock, cost unchanged, multimelta ugprade free
repentia 16p, 5++ SoF, 4+ fnp
retributors now have interceptor upgrade

Yikes, seems a bit of a stretch for a digital update. But I'd take it. Something that makes PE's worthwhile would be great, MC and the PE's extra attacks for wounding would be fun.
Torrent for the Immolator, and something more than just AP4
I'd take blessed ammuniton as an upgrade, or as a Celestian thing. Free power weapons don't thrill me on S3 models.
Turning the Eviscerator into a +2 S, Rending weapon that goes at Initiative would be nice. Give them the same rule the PE's get would be great as well.

Troike wrote:Especially dat Celestian upgrade...

They ought to buff the Canoness rather than Celestine.

The rest, though ... /drool

What's the exact source here?

 Lynata wrote:

Troike wrote:Especially dat Celestian upgrade...

They ought to buff the Canoness rather than Celestine.

The rest, though ... /drool

What's the exact source here?

:: giggle :: No, they said "Celestian." Not "Celestine." : D

I've been up for around 28 hours straight. What's your excuse? : D

Edit: And in the quote tags, it says the source is hawkroot on Warseer. Or something like that.

Edit again: Also, it occurs to me that Jacobus could be decently useful for his FNP in a Battle Sisters squad, particularly against Marine armies that rely on grav-weapons for dealing with infantry with 3+ or 2+ armor saves. Grav-weapons have no strength value, so the Sororitas would still get their FNP even if they wouldn't get their armor save, against grav-weapons. But that's a rather specific situation.

And I just got up from bed!
It appears they buffed Celestine, too, so I guess my point still stands.

As for the source, I suppose I ought to have said I'd like to know what hawkroot's source is.

I just want plastic sisters, a new codex, and a few more units to add variety. (But not like the chaos codex where some units suck so bad you'll never take them.) I don't think that's too much to ask for.

Realistically I'd like IG vets back in the main codex. The option to take Chimeras as transports, Russes for heavy support (limited to demolishers and punishers) and Hydras for AA. All existing kits (we could get the new Hydra ahead of the release for IG).

The sisters themselves I'd like a slight points drop, down a couple as marines are now about the same but better stats. I'd also like a rabble option, works a bit like the cultists from CSM, that unlocks with a priest or SC HQ.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
What about melee units for sisters that throw out a ton of strength 3 or 4 attacks. Kind of like a death company for sisters or like dark eldar wyches or striking scorpions for eldar.

Well, preachers can take a heap of crusaders (power weapon, storm shield), death cult assassins (two power weapons) or arcoflagellants (lots of attacks). Or a mix.
And you have Repentia and Penitent Engines as well.

Making more good melee units would take away one of the Sisters' main weaknesses. And as I've found, against most armies the sisters can fare quite well even in assault - if it's not a dedicated CC unit the sisters' Power Armor is very good to have, and they often outnumber elite armies quite severely. My last test game against my mate's Dark Eldar saw me assaulting all over the board because the Dark Eldar shooting hurt me more than the CC.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Hmm, wasn't there some other Space Marines who have that, too?

But in a way, I agree. In terms of fluff representation, one could argue we already have it with the current version of the Shield of Faith. And with my comment I just meant that all those rolls and re-rolls may feel a bit "clunky". It's probably a debate for another thread, but it doesn't feel very "elegant".

Blood Angels with Sanguinary Priests. We don't really need a 3rd PA army with FnP I think.

Sisters of Battle had a 4+ FNP that wasn't ignored by anything in Codex: Chapter Approved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dracpanzer wrote:

hawkroot on warseer about new sob digidex wrote:celestine scoring warlord trait
penitent engines are mcs, moved to elite
base sister 10p, can be taken 5-20
celestians have free power weapons
exorcist skyfire upgrade
immolators flamer s4 ap3 torrent stock, cost unchanged, multimelta ugprade free
repentia 16p, 5++ SoF, 4+ fnp
retributors now have interceptor upgrade

Yikes, seems a bit of a stretch for a digital update. But I'd take it. Something that makes PE's worthwhile would be great, MC and the PE's extra attacks for wounding would be fun.
Torrent for the Immolator, and something more than just AP4
I'd take blessed ammuniton as an upgrade, or as a Celestian thing. Free power weapons don't thrill me on S3 models.
Turning the Eviscerator into a +2 S, Rending weapon that goes at Initiative would be nice. Give them the same rule the PE's get would be great as well.

Yeah, this seems reaaaaallly unlikely.

Spetulhu wrote:Making more good melee units would take away one of the Sisters' main weaknesses.

Is it a weakness if they can already have "a heap of Crusaders" etc?

My personal gripe there is that all of those melee units aren't "proper" Sisters. You either have penitents or allies from the Church.
Celestians are supposed to be the Canoness' bodyguard ... make them fight like one!

If those rumours regarding power swords for Celestians are true, that's certainly a step in the right direction, but giving them the Crusaders' storm shield would be pretty much a wet dream.

@meh_: Link? I don't see that on Warseer anywhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah, there is no hawkroot on warseer.

 pretre wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Hmm, wasn't there some other Space Marines who have that, too?

But in a way, I agree. In terms of fluff representation, one could argue we already have it with the current version of the Shield of Faith. And with my comment I just meant that all those rolls and re-rolls may feel a bit "clunky". It's probably a debate for another thread, but it doesn't feel very "elegant".

Blood Angels with Sanguinary Priests. We don't really need a 3rd PA army with FnP I think.

Sisters of Battle had a 4+ FNP that wasn't ignored by anything in Codex: Chapter Approved.

Okay, that would be a different enough twist to warrant FnP I think. I also think it'd make us lose our 6+ Invul.

pretre wrote:Yeah, there is no hawkroot on warseer.

Maybe kroothawk?

One thing that I definitely want to get my hands on - if GW ever makes it - is an all-plastic Exorcist that looks like a proper Exorcist instead of the cheap hack job I did slapping a Whirlwind turret on an Immolator chassis. : P

I do like the aesthetic of the proper Exorcist model, at least part of the time, but I'm always terrified that I'll drop it when I'm moving it from one place to another in the house - most commonly, from my "display" case (that's really more of a storage space for models that don't have cases to go in, regardless of their paintjob status) to the gaming room down the hallway. Dropping a stock Sister of Battle isn't too bad, worst case scenario is that the backpack comes off. She's still usable in the game, and can be swapped out for an undamaged model between turns and repaired and left to dry overnight if need be.

But my Exorcist, I fear it has the mass to break itself apart with the kinetic energy it'll get between the time it leaves my hands and the time it reaches the floor.

I know that plastic models can and will do that - I had it happen with a Tau... I forget if it was a Devilfish or a Hammerhead - but I don't typically worry about dropping them, because they're light enough to be carried around with ease. I don't worry about my Immolators.

What I worry about, I guess, isn't so much a logical conclusion about what will happen to the tank, but more of a feeling that due to the Exorcist's weight, it's more likely that I'll drop it. It's an uneasy feeling that I have to be extra-cautious when carrying it around. And I very much do not like that feeling.

I know some people like the weight of metal models. I'm fine with the weight of metal Sororitas, and even stuff as big and heavy as the metal Killa Kanz and Deff Dreads - I have 3 metal Killa Kanz and 1 metal Deff Dread, and they pose a much higher risk of impaling my foot if I drop them - and I'd mostly like plastic Sororitas for the conversion and kitbash opportunities, but I just feel like my metal Exorcist is uncomfortably too heavy, to the point where the entire reason I use my Immolator/Whirlwind mashup is so I can avoid carrying the metal one around.

 Lynata wrote:

pretre wrote:Yeah, there is no hawkroot on warseer.

Maybe kroothawk?

Why would kroothawk post it there? and he's not allowed on warseer, iirc.

 Lynata wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:Making more good melee units would take away one of the Sisters' main weaknesses.

Is it a weakness if they can already have "a heap of Crusaders" etc?

My personal gripe there is that all of those melee units aren't "proper" Sisters. You either have penitents or allies from the Church.
Celestians are supposed to be the Canoness' bodyguard ... make them fight like one!

If those rumours regarding power swords for Celestians are true, that's certainly a step in the right direction, but giving them the Crusaders' storm shield would be pretty much a wet dream.

Spoiler:

Hey, I think I have that model! If I do, I've been using her - and 3 others from Reaper Minis - as Crusaders for my Battle Conclaves. : D

 Pouncey wrote:
But my Exorcist, I fear it has the mass to break itself apart with the kinetic energy it'll get between the time it leaves my hands and the time it reaches the floor.

To set your mind at ease... I had three converted exorcists back in the day before there was a model. Then I got three of the metal ones. They are well assembled but I did not glue down the organ pipes. This means that I occasionally drop the pipes. They come apart, I glue them back together. I should really get around to pinning them some day. No horrible things happen though. It really isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

 pretre wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
But my Exorcist, I fear it has the mass to break itself apart with the kinetic energy it'll get between the time it leaves my hands and the time it reaches the floor.

To set your mind at ease... I had three converted exorcists back in the day before there was a model. Then I got three of the metal ones. They are well assembled but I did not glue down the organ pipes. This means that I occasionally drop the pipes. They come apart, I glue them back together. I should really get around to pinning them some day. No horrible things happen though. It really isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

Thanks.

I guess I can take additional comfort in the fact that, having learned from my multi-month bout with building the Penitent Engines that were the only time I've ever had to walk away from the work table for fear of the model's safety due to rage of the builder...

Anyways, having learned from that, I opted to just use a crapload of greenstuff and a liberal coating of superglue to join the metal components to the chassis and each other. I don't care what anyone says, GW superglue does NOT hold metal stuff together with only a tiny drop. Or plastic stuff. Maybe Finecast, but my Valkia did not want to go together until I used a thin layer of liquid green stuff on the joins, probably due to the joining areas being tiny. The only thing GW superglue is good for is gluing fingers to models. It does THAT very well indeed, but it does NOT wash out of clothes. I've had a few droplets of dried superglue in one pair of jeans for years. Doesn't wash out.

I've only had one incident where my one of my Exorcists broke and that's because it was accidently dropped by someone I let look at it. The pipes held thanks to the pinning but the baseplate they mount to popped off. It went back on pretty easily.

 Lynata wrote:
My personal gripe there is that all of those melee units aren't "proper" Sisters. You either have penitents or allies from the Church.
Celestians are supposed to be the Canoness' bodyguard ... make them fight like one!

Oh, right you are. The Celestians also have a Faith ability that's good for melee but no way to get anything extra to fight with. Even if they just got a basic CCW in addition to the pistol and bolter I'd be happy.

Also I recommend Gorilla Glue Superglue. It's less brittle than the bargain bin stuff that GW sells and you get a good sized bottle for your money.

And pinning. Assembling a Penitent Engine without pinning is just asking for trouble.

 pretre wrote:
And pinning. Assembling a Penitent Engine without pinning is just asking for trouble.

I ended up using big gobs of green stuff. They are not pretty Penitent Engines. They are Penitent Engines that would cause the tech who built them to be interred in one themself for their utter failure.

So far the only part that's come off is the upper body detaching from the lower body on one of them. That happened almost right away, and hasn't happened since.

My first attempt was as ill-conceived as my attempt to create a superbeverage by combining chocolate milk with root beer in the same glass.

Or perhaps as ill-conceived as mixing my nightly dose of liquid Risperdal with a teaspoon of Lime Cordial, then consuming without adding water.

My first attempt involved carpenter's glue. I saw how well it had held my foamcore constructions together, so I figured, "Hey,... if it holds that stuff together that well, maybe it'll be a step up from GW superglue..."

And the answer is no, and it made a big mess on the model when I tried to fix the failed model stability the Red Green way, by adding more carpenter's glue.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm dumber than I sound.

 Pouncey wrote:

 pretre wrote:
And pinning. Assembling a Penitent Engine without pinning is just asking for trouble.

I ended up using big gobs of green stuff. They are not pretty Penitent Engines. They are Penitent Engines that would cause the tech who built them to be interred in one themself for their utter failure.

So far the only part that's come off is the upper body detaching from the lower body on one of them. That happened almost right away, and hasn't happened since.

Yeah, not a fan of green stuff for that kind of assembly.

Do you have a pin vise or a dremel (or even a power drill/screwdriver)?

Drill small holes in each side of the piece you want to marry. Get a small nail or paper clip and cut a 1/8 to 1/4" piece of metal. Put glue in one hole. Insert nail. Let dry. Put glue in other hole and on contact location. Insert nail in hole. Makes a much stronger join.

 pretre wrote:
Yeah, there is no hawkroot on warseer.

I'm guessing he meant kroothawk? But yeah, i didn't see anything on Warseer either. A shame, I really want Celestians with power weapons.

 Troike wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Yeah, there is no hawkroot on warseer.

i'm guessing he meant kroothawk? But yeah, i didn't see anything on Warseer either. A shame, I really want Celestians with power weapons.

I pm'd kroothawk, but he doesn't post on Warseer.

 pretre wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 pretre wrote:
And pinning. Assembling a Penitent Engine without pinning is just asking for trouble.

I ended up using big gobs of green stuff. They are not pretty Penitent Engines. They are Penitent Engines that would cause the tech who built them to be interred in one themself for their utter failure.

So far the only part that's come off is the upper body detaching from the lower body on one of them. That happened almost right away, and hasn't happened since.

Yeah, not a fan of green stuff for that kind of assembly.

Do you have a pin vise or a dremel (or even a power drill/screwdriver)?

Drill small holes in each side of the piece you want to marry. Get a small nail or paper clip and cut a 1/8 to 1/4" piece of metal. Put glue in one hole. Insert nail. Let dry. Put glue in other hole and on contact location. Insert nail in hole. Makes a much stronger join.

I got a GW pin vise when I bought a metal Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun. I remember because it was my first attempt at pinning. I ended up drilling all the way through the Big Mek's arm and out his shoulder because I had no idea how deep I'd drilled, but it didn't feel like I was very far in at all. Then when I tried to cut the length of paper clip, I used GW plastic cutters, and when the piece finally DID get clipped off, it shot off and bounced to Emperor-knows-where. I'm lucky it didn't ricochet up under my glasses and get me in the eye.

It took a while for me to make a second attempt at pinning. My second attempt involved turning a Sororitas Simulacrum bearer into a banner bearer with a plastic Bretonnian Knights of the Realm/Knights Errant banner. It went, better. I managed to drill through the length of the Sororitas' banner pole well enough after clipping off the Simulacrum (I don't much like sharp things, so I avoid the Razor Saw). When I drilled up through the plastic banner pole, though, I guess I got a bit overenthusiastic and overconfident, and ended up breaching the side of the banner pole. I used a toothpick, glue, and a coating of liquid green stuff to make a smoother finish around the damaged area. Not sure how sturdy it is.

Yeah, it takes a little work to get used to, but once you get good at it, it is really helpful.

 pretre wrote:
And pinning. Assembling a Penitent Engine without pinning is just asking for trouble.

Pin EVERYTHING. I swear all those lots of Sisters with no backpacks only exist because people never pinned them and eventually lost them all.

 pretre wrote:
Yeah, it takes a little work to get used to, but once you get good at it, it is really helpful.

I know. And there was a time in my life not long ago when I'd've worked at getting better at it. That part of me died along with the part that would sit and read the Witch Hunters Codex all the way through, all the fluff and everything, and enjoyed the whole thing. But the last time I read any fluff outside what's posted on Dakka, Lexicanum, or an occasional quick check of a particular piece that I'd heard about and was curious about, was at least a few years ago. I also used to read fiction novels, especially a lot of sci-fi stuff, all night, every night, and enjoyed it.

Pin SOB backpacks? That's a lot of pinning. I pinned the crap out of celestine though. Her sword arm finally broke, but not at the join.

 pretre wrote:
Pin SOB backpacks? That's a lot of pinning. I pinned the crap out of celestine though. Her sword arm finally broke, but not at the join.

My Celestine's arm fell off at least once.

But her backdrape thingy stayed on until I forcibly removed it and replaced it with a Sanguinary Guard angel wing jump pack! : D

 pretre wrote:
Pin SOB backpacks? That's a lot of pinning. I pinned the crap out of celestine though. Her sword arm finally broke, but not at the join.

It's that or worry about things falling off. I'm a fan of not having to reassemble models.

 Pouncey wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Pin SOB backpacks? That's a lot of pinning. I pinned the crap out of celestine though. Her sword arm finally broke, but not at the join.

My Celestine's arm fell off at least once.

But her backdrape thingy stayed on until I forcibly removed it and replaced it with a Sanguinary Guard angel wing jump pack! : D

I was sick of her falling apart, so she has a pin that goes into her chest, through the jump pack and into the cherubs.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Necrosis wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Necrosis wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Manchu's Sisters of Battle Wish List:

- Sixth Edition Codex
- Plastic Sisters

I agree, give me this and I will be happy.

That's what the CSM players attitude was and look at what those Heretics got.

I don't remember CSM having metal models that they had to buy in blisters.

I meant more of them just wanting a new codex in the current edition.

Codices come and go for factions that get updates. At this point, I'm more concerned about having a proper codex at all than having a "tier one" (whatever that means) book.

A special melta gun that hits things in a line.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
A special melta gun that hits things in a line.

And draws a 12' line. I want that sucker making people cry in Apoc!

Kroothawk said it wasn't him, btw.

 pretre wrote:
Kroothawk said it wasn't him, btw.

No surprise there, his rumors are usually focused around release schedule stuff.

 Pouncey wrote:
My Celestine's arm fell off at least once. But her backdrape thingy stayed on until I forcibly removed it and replaced it with a Sanguinary Guard angel wing jump pack! : D

Hah, I've had no trouble with the arm. The fastening of the pegasus wings I've used instead of her backpack thingy on the other hand is a bit dodgy. I put a pin in her back top hang them on but they're so large and get jostled about in transport even if I wrap her well so they sometimes fall off.

meh_ wrote:

hawkroot on warseer about new sob digidex wrote:celestine scoring warlord trait
penitent engines are mcs, moved to elite
base sister 10p, can be taken 5-20
celestians have free power weapons
exorcist skyfire upgrade
immolators flamer s4 ap3 torrent stock, cost unchanged, multimelta ugprade free
repentia 16p, 5++ SoF, 4+ fnp
retributors now have interceptor upgrade

oh boy

meh_ wrote:It's just a bs i made up It was a wishlisting thread for Celestine's sake!

Maybe in the future try to make it your own post and not attribute to someone else. :(

 Manchu wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Necrosis wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Necrosis wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Manchu's Sisters of Battle Wish List:

- Sixth Edition Codex
- Plastic Sisters

I agree, give me this and I will be happy.

That's what the CSM players attitude was and look at what those Heretics got.

I don't remember CSM having metal models that they had to buy in blisters.

I meant more of them just wanting a new codex in the current edition.

Codices come and go for factions that get updates. At this point, I'm more concerned about having a proper codex at all than having a "tier one" (whatever that means) book.

Personally, I'd rather not have a top-tier Codex. Because then I would get lumped in with all the people flocking to the Sororitas for a powerful army. And when people then ask me what army I play, and I reply Sisters of Battle, they're not gonna be thinking anything other than, "Oh, another Codex hopper."

:: shrugs :: Maybe I worry too much what people think of me. I can't enjoy PvP in online videogames, because when I inevitably die, I always picture the guy who killed me laughing derisively and going, "Ha ha, what a noob." That thought, whether it's grounded in reality or not, always makes me angry. Playing a game in splitscreen or a tabletop game is fine, because they're right there, not laughing at me.

Pouncey, that's the advantage of that heavy metal army: you can crush dissenters by dropping it on them when they call you a codex hopper.

ClockworkZion wrote:Pouncey, that's the advantage of that heavy metal army: you can crush dissenters by dropping it on them when they call you a codex hopper.

And people say metals have no advantages!

Pouncey wrote:Personally, I'd rather not have a top-tier Codex. Because then I would get lumped in with all the people flocking to the Sororitas for a powerful army. And when people then ask me what army I play, and I reply Sisters of Battle, they're not gonna be thinking anything other than, "Oh, another Codex hopper."

Hmm, if you say it like that ...
Even though larger sales could result in more support for Sisters in the future. But still, it would come with a sacrifice, as you point out.
I guess I'd like to settle for the happy medium then - not an underdog, but not so strong that people would buy them for their power rather than style.

Still, a powerful Canoness is a must-have.

ClockworkZion wrote:
Pouncey, that's the advantage of that heavy metal army: you can crush dissenters by dropping it on them when they call you a codex hopper.

XD

Not too likely. I only play against my mom, and only at home, and I've been using my Battle Sisters against her for at least 3-4 years now.

Plus, most people have more tact. But regardless of what they say, I'll still be thinking they're thinking it.


Lynata, that's what I'd like to see too. ^_^

Personally, I'd just like the Sisters to have the defenses necessary to stand against their foes and the strength to put the hurt on them when they get into range.

Don't need OTT Space Magic.
Don't need ICs that require the entire army to be built around them.
Don't need too many fancy new (for the Sisters) war-gear options.
Don't need to rely on allies to do the heavy lifting.

Just need the fortitude to get stuck in and get the job done.

In the current meta Power Armour is no better than paper. The Sisters need a gimmick to be effective, be it Acts of Faith giving them 3+ invulns, army-wide FNP, the ability to spam MC/Walker Penitent Engines and some sort of Exorcist buff.

Hmm, what Psienesis said.

I've been through the "Oh, a codex hopper" spiel before with my Necrons. It sucked pretty badly then, too... and most of the people I play were aware of the fact I've been collecting Necrons since 1997... and they STILL called me a codex hopper because it had been a couple of months since the last time I pulled them out.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
In the current meta Power Armour is no better than paper. The Sisters need a gimmick to be effective, be it Acts of Faith giving them 3+ invulns, army-wide FNP, the ability to spam MC/Walker Penitent Engines and some sort of Exorcist buff.

I don't know what meta you play in, but unless they start giving everyone AP3 weapons on every model power armor on Sisters is friggin' great.

And we had an Act of Faith that gave invuls equal to your armor save. It was silly.

We can take 9 Penitent Engines in a list. I don't know how you spam more than that.

And Exorcists are duckin' awesome! The only way they could be better is if they had skyfire and armorbane.

 Lynata wrote:
Still, a powerful Canoness is a must-have.

Damn right. She's the best in an army of humanity's best (Marines being post-human). Her tabletop rules really should reflect that.

Also, I'd much prefer a generic character over a special one, and that preference will certainly screw me over with the codex we have now.

 Troike wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Still, a powerful Canoness is a must-have.

Damn right. She's the best in an army of humanity's best (Marines being post-human). Her tabletop rules really should reflect that.

Also, I'd much prefer a generic character over a special one, and that preference will certainly screw me over with the codex we have now.

She's not -bad- but she lacks synergy, can't pull the Flying Nun anymore and is too close in cost to the SCs who have a lot of rules stacked on them for far too little.

I want a better Canoness AND the SC Canoness options back.

ClockworkZion wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
In the current meta Power Armour is no better than paper. The Sisters need a gimmick to be effective, be it Acts of Faith giving them 3+ invulns, army-wide FNP, the ability to spam MC/Walker Penitent Engines and some sort of Exorcist buff.

I don't know what meta you play in, but unless they start giving everyone AP3 weapons on every model power armor on Sisters is friggin' great.

And we had an Act of Faith that gave invuls equal to your armor save. It was silly.

We can take 9 Penitent Engines in a list. I don't know how you spam more than that.

And Exorcists are duckin' awesome! The only way they could be better is if they had skyfire and armorbane.

A meta in which Iontides are a standard build.

It's the Wargear. The loss of mantles and books and blessed weapon etc hurt her badly. We just need our old armoury back...

Troike wrote:Also, I'd much prefer a generic character over a special one, and that preference will certainly screw me over with the codex we have now.

I'm feeling with you!

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

A meta in which Iontides are a standard build.

Well then the issue isn't that power armor sucks it's that you play with people who love their cheese.

ClockworkZion wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

A meta in which Iontides are a standard build.

Well then the issue isn't that power armor sucks it's that you play with people who love their cheese.

Try playing in a league with simple Eldar, MEQ just doesn't cut it much anymore when you've got several strong AP3 breaking armies.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

A meta in which Iontides are a standard build.

Well then the issue isn't that power armor sucks it's that you play with people who love their cheese.

Try playing in a league with simple Eldar, MEQ just doesn't cut it much anymore when you've got several strong AP3 breaking armies.

Sisters aren't MEQ though. And they still get a save (albiet a low one) vs Bladestorm's quasi-rend.

 Lynata wrote:
It's the Wargear. The loss of mantles and books and blessed weapon etc hurt her badly. We just need our old armoury back...

Troike wrote:Also, I'd much prefer a generic character over a special one, and that preference will certainly screw me over with the codex we have now.

I'm feeling with you!

I would like to field my custom Sisterhood's Canoness (though her organization is small enough that the lesser rank of Palatine would be more appropriate) instead of busting out my crazily souped-up holy warrior of superslaughter every time. It's starting to feel a little repetitive, and when I go change my list to exchange my not-Celestine for my Palatine, just for a change, I feel like I'm deliberately weakening my army.

A better Cannoness might be #2 priority for a new codex. More variety is #1.

Those two things are tightly connected, methings!

Agreed. A better synergized Canoness would mean less seeing all the SCs running around all the time meaning more diversity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh! Fun thought! Canoness unlocks Celestians as Troops!

ClockworkZion wrote:
Oh! Fun thought! Canoness unlocks Celestians as Troops!

I could see a specific canoness doing that but not the default. Otherwise, who leads the normal battle sisters?

 pretre wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Oh! Fun thought! Canoness unlocks Celestians as Troops!

I could see a specific canoness doing that but not the default. Otherwise, who leads the normal battle sisters?

Palatines.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 pretre wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Oh! Fun thought! Canoness unlocks Celestians as Troops!

I could see a specific canoness doing that but not the default. Otherwise, who leads the normal battle sisters?

Palatines.

Meh. From a fluff standpoint?

 pretre wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

 pretre wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Oh! Fun thought! Canoness unlocks Celestians as Troops!

I could see a specific canoness doing that but not the default. Otherwise, who leads the normal battle sisters?

Palatines.

Meh. From a fluff standpoint?

From a fluff standpoint a Palatine is more likely to be in charge of a smaller covent and as thus will have Battle Sisters as her main force. A Canoness is higher on the food chain and has a larger selection of units and could effectively use Celestians as her main force, at least personally.

I'd be happy if a Canoness made at least 1 unit of Celestians a troop choice just to make her do something for the army (unlock a scoring unit that actually works with her AoF). Of course it'd help if you could by Celestians CCW.

That's always a possibility too. Sararissas count as CCWs but can only be taken by models with bolters.

Celestians as troops is good, don't get me wrong. It gives us a 5 girl troop choice, which is a big deal.

I think Canoness needs more synergy with the army though.

If the army keeps the D6 faith mechanic, you could let the Canoness add 2 to that number while alive. Gives scaling for higher points games and certainty to your rolls.

 pretre wrote:
Celestians as troops is good, don't get me wrong. It gives us a 5 girl troop choice, which is a big deal.

I think Canoness needs more synergy with the army though.

If the army keeps the D6 faith mechanic, you could let the Canoness add 2 to that number while alive. Gives scaling for higher points games and certainty to your rolls.

Canoness would synergize with Celestians if they could take CCWs.

BSS with the ability to take 5-20 models is something I want too. 10ppm (or less) a special or heavy at 5 and 15 and another special at 10 and 20. Make scaling worth it.

As for Faith I still stand by the mesh of 3rd and 6th. A point per Sororitas unit on the board each player turn, 2 for a Palatine and 3 for a Canoness. And acts that can be used in every phase. This gives plenty of synergy, adds a real tangible bonus for the HQs who serve as the pillars of faith in the order and generally makes things better.

ClockworkZion wrote:
Canoness would synergize with Celestians if they could take CCWs.

Well, to be fair the Celestians would synergize with their faith act if they could do that.

BSS with the ability to take 5-20 models is something I want too. 10ppm (or less) a special or heavy at 5 and 15 and another special at 10 and 20. Make scaling worth it.

I don't know about 5. I think the Celestians as troops would be a good work around for that. I do like the idea of additional special/heavy at higher model count.

As for Faith I still stand by the mesh of 3rd and 6th. A point per Sororitas unit on the board each player turn, 2 for a Palatine and 3 for a Canoness. And acts that can be used in every phase. This gives plenty of synergy, adds a real tangible bonus for the HQs who serve as the pillars of faith in the order and generally makes things better.

Well, then Celestine would give 3 (and lose D3 on death) and Jacobus/Kyrinov would give 2. At least based on 3rd.

It probably depends on what exactly the army on the board is supposed to represent. A normal detachment from the Order, or a special, very objective-specific one?
The Strike Force list in CJ #49 was all Celestians and Seraphim because killing off a Marine Chapter is a special kind of mission where an Order would send only its best.

That being said, I think such special cases should better be solved via Apoc formations, similar to the Repentant Host and the Purge Squadron. Unless there's a way to get those into the standard game, too. By standard, the Celestians are much more of an elite bodyguard, I think. I wouldn't really like seeing them become a new standard for SoB line troops, but it might be cool for smaller games maybe? Perhaps there could be a points limit, so you can use them in this fashion below a certain value. For 500 pts games, for example. Almost in a kill-team style.

Though, perhaps this is where the Palatine could come in handy. It'd fit to her fluff-role as right hand of a Canoness...

"Alright. Take a bunch of Celestians, go there, and kill everything!" - "Yes Mistress!"

 pretre wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Canoness would synergize with Celestians if they could take CCWs.

Well, to be fair the Celestians would synergize with their faith act if they could do that.

True, and it'd make them more useful and well rounded.

 pretre wrote:

BSS with the ability to take 5-20 models is something I want too. 10ppm (or less) a special or heavy at 5 and 15 and another special at 10 and 20. Make scaling worth it.

I don't know about 5. I think the Celestians as troops would be a good work around for that. I do like the idea of additional special/heavy at higher model count.

5 means BSS can fit inside of an Immolator.

 pretre wrote:

As for Faith I still stand by the mesh of 3rd and 6th. A point per Sororitas unit on the board each player turn, 2 for a Palatine and 3 for a Canoness. And acts that can be used in every phase. This gives plenty of synergy, adds a real tangible bonus for the HQs who serve as the pillars of faith in the order and generally makes things better.

Well, then Celestine would give 3 (and lose D3 on death) and Jacobus/Kyrinov would give 2. At least based on 3rd.

ClockworkZion wrote:
5 means BSS can fit inside of an Immolator.

I don't think that is necessary. It was weird that they gave the Immo to BSS in the WD.

 pretre wrote:
Celestine giving a bonus with a penalty like that everytime she dies is characterful though. I like that.

That's the way it was previously. Although, you only lost points the first time, iirc.

 pretre wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
5 means BSS can fit inside of an Immolator.

I don't think that is necessary. It was weird that they gave the Immo to BSS in the WD.

I like the option though and find it weirder that they get a transport they can't ride inside of.

 pretre wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Celestine giving a bonus with a penalty like that everytime she dies is characterful though. I like that.

That's the way it was previously. Although, you only lost points the first time, iirc.

True, but Faith points were more limited back then. Faith basically powering her resurrection is kind of awesome.

ClockworkZion wrote:I like the option though and find it weirder that they get a transport they can't ride inside of.

/agree

5-20 sounds like a good range that'd also offer options for any sort of game (pointswise), and it fits to the fluff of a squad essentially being a "family unit".

ClockworkZion wrote:Faith basically powering her resurrection is kind of awesome.

Heh, even fits into my theory about the nature of Living Saints.

I agree with most of what everyone else says. But I would like to see something similar to the space marines "Chapter Tactics" To represent the different Orders.

There is all sorts of goodies you could just give them from the IG or SM. I would like to see them get a faction specific flier, and I would rather they get chimera instead of Rhinos.

 Lynata wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:Faith basically powering her resurrection is kind of awesome.

Heh, even fits into my theory about the nature of Living Saints.

I've always been a fan of the "Daemon Prince(sses) of the Emperor thing but mostly because it ties into the old Star Child fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ralis wrote:
I agree with most of what everyone else says. But I would like to see something similar to the space marines "Chapter Tactics" To represent the different Orders.

There is all sorts of goodies you could just give them from the IG or SM. I would like to see them get a faction specific flier, and I would rather they get chimera instead of Rhinos.

I'm with you on the Order Traits thing. Each Order has a pretty unique personality after all. I'd still be happy with that being a supplement thing just so we could get a whole lot more Sisters fluff.

Chimeras are lame. At least Sisters bling their Rhinos.

Valkyries and Avengers in the codex FTW.

Order traits would be interesting, as long as it's nothing major that breaks their uniformity/connection.

ClockworkZion wrote:Valkyries and Avengers in the codex FTW.

Avengers are ugly. Lightnings Go!

Plus, the original Lightning seems OOP at FW, so might actually have a chance at being picked up by GW?

 Lynata wrote:
Order traits would be interesting, as long as it's nothing major that breaks their uniformity/connection.

ClockworkZion wrote:Valkyries and Avengers in the codex FTW.

Avengers are ugly. Lightnings Go!

Plus, the original Lightning seems OOP at FW, so might actually have a chance at being picked up by GW?

No, FW replaced the old one with this: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Navy/VOSS_PATTERN_LIGHTNING_STRIKE_FIGHTER.html

And I happen to like the Avenger. That bolt cannon makes things cry.

Yes, but the Voss looks ugly, too. I want the original Lightning for the SoB, and that one is OOP.

Maybe it's part because the Sisters had it in Soulstorm - but I also think the wing configuration is much prettier. It's ... aquila-style.

 Lynata wrote:
Maybe it's part because the Sisters had it in Soulstorm - but I also think the wing configuration is much prettier. It's ... aquila-style.

Speaking of soulstorm... How about a DK/Wraithknight size living saint? Can you imagine Celestine blown up a couple times with additional detail? It would be awesome.

pretre wrote:Speaking of soulstorm... How about a DK/Wraithknight size living saint? Can you imagine Celestine blown up a couple times with additional detail? It would be awesome.

Ouphh... not sure if want.

Maybe if you change her into a being of light with only vaguely human features - so basically, less detail, more glow. Not a big fan of a simple upscaling, but I could see it work as a clearly supernatural phenomenon.

 Lynata wrote:

pretre wrote:Speaking of soulstorm... How about a DK/Wraithknight size living saint? Can you imagine Celestine blown up a couple times with additional detail? It would be awesome.

Ouphh... not sure if want.

Maybe if you change her into a being of light with only vaguely human features. Not a big fan of a simple upscaling, but I could see it work as a clearly supernatural phenomenon.

Take a page from the new transcendent C'Tan? Giant being of light with energy streaming off?



edit: Yeah, I like the image you posted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course, that's mostly down to painting.

meh_ wrote:

hawkroot on warseer about new sob digidex wrote:

oh boy

Not cool to use my name to spread fake rumours.

 Kroothawk wrote:

meh_ wrote:

hawkroot on warseer about new sob digidex wrote:

oh boy

Not cool to use my name to spread fake rumours.

I'm hoping he learned his lesson.

 pretre wrote:

 Lynata wrote:

pretre wrote:Speaking of soulstorm... How about a DK/Wraithknight size living saint? Can you imagine Celestine blown up a couple times with additional detail? It would be awesome.

Ouphh... not sure if want.

Maybe if you change her into a being of light with only vaguely human features. Not a big fan of a simple upscaling, but I could see it work as a clearly supernatural phenomenon.

Take a page from the new transcendent C'Tan? Giant being of light with energy streaming off?

Spoiler:

edit: Yeah, I like the image you posted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course, that's mostly down to painting.

Transcendant C'Tan isn't that big though. He's maybe Dreadnought sized in volume.

ClockworkZion wrote:
Transcendant C'Tan isn't that big though. He's maybe Dreadnought sized in volume.

I meant more of the streaming energy thing, not the size.


I kinda want something like a Celestine made of light with wings like Tyrael from Diablo 2. (The big light loopy things)

Basically this old chestnut then?

Thinking of things to add to the army:



Better than a combi weapon!

Meh. That's just silly.

 pretre wrote:
Meh. That's just silly.

What about bolters that ignore cover and have armorbane?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Meh. That's just silly.

What about bolters that ignore cover and have armorbane?

No.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What about letting sisters buy Sternguard ammo (one kind per squad)?

Or letting certain squads get them. I.e. Celestians get Hellfire for 1ppm or free swap but they can only use that one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or one use per battle. That's a lot of bookkeeping though.

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Meh. That's just silly.

What about bolters that ignore cover and have armorbane?

No.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What about letting sisters buy Sternguard ammo (one kind per squad)?

Or letting certain squads get them. I.e. Celestians get Hellfire for 1ppm or free swap but they can only use that one.

Blessed Bolts and Holy Promethium need to return.

Bolts could easily be our Sternguard ammo (Ignore Cover like it used to or some new trick, like AP4 or Shred) and the Promethium could definitely be a Shred thing, or a bonus to the AP (or both ).

I was kidding about the obviously broken idea of Bolters that ignore cover and have armorbane. Mostly. It'd be hilarious though.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Blessed Bolts and Holy Promethium need to return.

Bolts could easily be our Sternguard ammo (Ignore Cover like it used to or some new trick, like AP4 or Shred) and the Promethium could definitely be a Shred thing, or a bonus to the AP (or both ).

Yeah, I think ignore cover for some of our units would be pretty sweet.

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Blessed Bolts and Holy Promethium need to return.

Bolts could easily be our Sternguard ammo (Ignore Cover like it used to or some new trick, like AP4 or Shred) and the Promethium could definitely be a Shred thing, or a bonus to the AP (or both ).

Yeah, I think ignore cover for some of our units would be pretty sweet.

AP bonuses could be awesome too. AP3 Heavy Flamers/Bolters? Sign me up!

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Blessed Bolts and Holy Promethium need to return.

Bolts could easily be our Sternguard ammo (Ignore Cover like it used to or some new trick, like AP4 or Shred) and the Promethium could definitely be a Shred thing, or a bonus to the AP (or both ).

Yeah, I think ignore cover for some of our units would be pretty sweet.

AP bonuses could be awesome too. AP3 Heavy Flamers/Bolters? Sign me up!

+1 AP for Holy Promethium.

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Blessed Bolts and Holy Promethium need to return.

Bolts could easily be our Sternguard ammo (Ignore Cover like it used to or some new trick, like AP4 or Shred) and the Promethium could definitely be a Shred thing, or a bonus to the AP (or both ).

Yeah, I think ignore cover for some of our units would be pretty sweet.

AP bonuses could be awesome too. AP3 Heavy Flamers/Bolters? Sign me up!

+1 AP for Holy Promethium.

I think it'd be a nice way to set the Sisters apart from other armies who use lots of burning (Salamanders namely) and making it a pay-upgrade (10pt for the unit for each maybe) means it isn't just taken because it's free and the cost spreads out nicely depending on how many models it affects.

Of course Retributors with Heavy Bolters then become silly and awesome. AP3 with Rending? Nothing is safe!

Holy Promethium - +1 AP for Flamer Weapons
Blessed Bolts - Ignores Cover for Bolter Weapons
Consecrated Power Cells - +3" Range for Melta Weapons

Or Holy Promethium giving the flamers Soul Blaze. And Blessed Ammo with Soul Blaze. And power weapons with Soul Blaze. And Eviscerators with Soul Blaze for "Repentia Champion" characters. Yes, I know people dislike the bookkeeping, but it's so appropriate.

Also "shining swords" that are master-crafted power weapons that can do a one-shot Blind attack on the first round of assault as they dazzle the enemy with the light of the Emperor.

Also more tanks, because I love tanks. Predator Infernus, Predator with Avenger Bolt Cannon, and some kind of fast scout tank on a Rhino chassis, like an even-more-fragile Hellhound (call it the Oriflamme).

[Edit: Oh, and Valkyries. BS4 Valkyries with multi-meltas instead of lascannon].

As for Frateris of various kinds, I'd like to see them contribute Faith Points to the army: They can't use Acts of Faith themselves, they lack the Sisters' focus, but their raw passion boosts the gestalt psychic field from which the Sisters draw the power for their Acts.

My inclination would be to make Faith Points something you get at the start of the game and spend throughout, as per Witchhunters -- what's the argument for keeping it turn by turn?

Meh, Soul Blaze is a bookkeeping ability and I'm not a fan of them.

Blind might be cool.

Frateris generate but can't use. Maybe Zealots/Redemptionists generate and can use (unit upgrade).

I actually like the points per turn. When it was per game, I had a tendency to hoard them and spend them all in one or two turns.

 pretre wrote:
Holy Promethium - +1 AP for Flamer Weapons
Blessed Bolts - Ignores Cover for Bolter Weapons
Consecrated Power Cells - +3" Range for Melta Weapons

I like it!

Though I think the Melta range should be an even number to keep the product even so the half range isn't something like "7.5".

 SisterSydney wrote:
Or Holy Promethium giving the flamers Soul Blaze. And Blessed Ammo with Soul Blaze. And power weapons with Soul Blaze. And Eviscerators with Soul Blaze for "Repentia Champion" characters. Yes, I know people dislike the bookkeeping, but it's so appropriate.

Soul Blaze seems to be more about burning people's actual souls... Though I think we used to set people on fire so maybe all the flamer weapons we have should do that anyways.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Also "shining swords" that are master-crafted power weapons that can do a one-shot Blind attack on the first round of assault as they dazzle the enemy with the light of the Emperor.

Blessed Blades need to make a return. +2S, AP3, Blind. I'd use it!

 SisterSydney wrote:
Also more tanks, because I love tanks. Predator Infernus, Predator with Avenger Bolt Cannon, and some kind of fast scout tank on a Rhino chassis, like an even-more-fragile Hellhound (call it the Oriflamme).

[Edit: Oh, and Valkyries. BS4 Valkyries with multi-meltas instead of lascannon].

Don't forget that we have stuff to steal from the Guard too! Inferno Cannon and Melta Cannon both seem like nice light tank options. And now that the Imperium as an AV12/12/10 vehicle it opens things up for us to get something in the same vein (my vote is AV 12/11/10 but make it fast and stick it in the fast attack slot).

 SisterSydney wrote:
As for Frateris of various kinds, I'd like to see them contribute Faith Points to the army: They can't use Acts of Faith themselves, they lack the Sisters' focus, but their raw passion boosts the gestalt psychic field from which the Sisters draw the power for their Acts.

My inclination would be to make Faith Points something you get at the start of the game and spend throughout, as per Witchhunters -- what's the argument for keeping it turn by turn?

Redemptionists could use Faith....maybe giving them Shield of Faith as a Faith Power?

And by turn means we can keep these less "miraculious" powers that don't do things like give us Invuls equal to our armor or give us S5 Sisters who strike at I1 and instead ones that feel more appropiate (I really do feel the current powers feel more like how Acts should feel). Plus it means we don't pour 13 points into a single mob in one turn just to make them good all of a sudden.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Though I think the Melta range should be an even number to keep the product even so the half range isn't something like "7.5".

Sure. Make it 4" or 6"

Redemptionists could use Faith....maybe giving them Shield of Faith as a Faith Power?

That's way too weak for a faith point. 6++ for a FP? Yuck.

And by turn means we can keep these less "miraculious" powers that don't do things like give us Invuls equal to our armor or give us S5 Sisters who strike at I1 and instead ones that feel more appropiate (I really do feel the current powers feel more like how Acts should feel). Plus it means we don't pour 13 points into a single mob in one turn just to make them good all of a sudden.

I like the miraculous powers though. Strength, FNP, Speed, Rallying. Those are all cool. Although, I liked the 4+ standup better than the invul. And pouring faith makes it even more miraculous!

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Though I think the Melta range should be an even number to keep the product even so the half range isn't something like "7.5".

Sure. Make it 4" or 6"

6" would be awesome. 30" Multi-Meltas!

Redemptionists could use Faith....maybe giving them Shield of Faith as a Faith Power?

That's way too weak for a faith point. 6++ for a FP? Yuck.

The problem with these sorts of threads is all the awesome ideas that people come up with... and then the book comes out.

Hope is, as they say, the first step on the road to disappointment.

 Psienesis wrote:
The problem with these sorts of threads is all the awesome ideas that people come up with... and then the book comes out.

Hope is, as they say, the first step on the road to disappointment.

It's just something to pass the time on a Friday.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
so your mob of Sisters can go punch out Thunderhammer Terminators.

Maybe those termies should have thought about it before they went ahead and committed heresy.

 pretre wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The problem with these sorts of threads is all the awesome ideas that people come up with... and then the book comes out.

Hope is, as they say, the first step on the road to disappointment.

It's just something to pass the time on a Friday.

Pretty much. Plus it's fun.

I'm in an all-day virtual training call. So I have even more time than usual.

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
so your mob of Sisters can go punch out Thunderhammer Terminators.

Maybe those termies should have thought about it before they went ahead and committed heresy.

Okay, that made me chuckle.

In all seriousness, I liked being able to stack faith powers and do miraculous things.

There was nothing more cinematic than some big, badass unit to come screaming into my lines and yet a humble squad of sisters of battle held the line against them for a two or three phases (with invuls and +strength), whittling them down until they finally were cut down 'just in time' to be gunned down by the rest of the army.

Picking and choosing when to use faith was as important as using them.

 pretre wrote:
I'm in an all-day virtual training call. So I have even more time than usual.

I'm between classes at the local community college when I'm on here.

 Psienesis wrote:
The problem with these sorts of threads is all the awesome ideas that people come up with... and then the book comes out.

Hope is, as they say, the first step on the road to disappointment.

Well, unless we do a fandex (I've been tinkering with one for a while, which is where my wishlist ideas are coming from; plus there are a few out there already).

More wishlisty!

Celestians with 2+ artificer armor, any of them can take a storm bolter or a power weapon -- a bit like Space Marine Honor Guard.

Crusaders as squads -- with Stubborn to be ultimate tarpit.

Arco-Flagellants as squads -- using Beast rules, not infantry, so they're scary fast, scuttling inhumanly over the ground.....

Alternative ammo choices for Exorcist: frag, skyfire, long-range/low power, etc.

Sisters Bikes -- but they use cavalry rules, not Bike rules, and therefore don't get +1 to Toughness: T4 is not a Sisters thing, it's a defining weakness of the army that shouldn't go away.

Canoness "doctrines" (say, 30 points?) that can make Dominions, Seraphim, or Retributors troops (no Elites as troops, though; that seems.... off).

How about instead of making Celestians Troops they become Scoring instead?

SisterSydney wrote:As for Frateris of various kinds, I'd like to see them contribute Faith Points to the army: They can't use Acts of Faith themselves, they lack the Sisters' focus, but their raw passion boosts the gestalt psychic field from which the Sisters draw the power for their Acts.

You heretic.

"No Adepta Sororitas character will ever have psychic powers of any sort."
- Inquisitor RPG

The idea to have allied zealots influence the pool of Faith Points is nice in principle, but I think it doesn't reflect the fluff very well. The Sisters focus mostly on their squad (likely because of their lifestyle), and assuming that GW fixes FP generation scaling with army size, the general "vastness" of the army should already affect the faith of the crusaders within regardless of who they're rolling out with.

ClockworkZion wrote:Don't forget that we have stuff to steal from the Guard too! Inferno Cannon and Melta Cannon both seem like nice light tank options.

It's not stealing when it was ours all along! Filthy Mechanicus liars...

pretre wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:Redemptionists could use Faith....maybe giving them Shield of Faith as a Faith Power?

That's way too weak for a faith point. 6++ for a FP? Yuck.

How about just giving zealots the Shield of Faith by default, and call it a day?
I don't think they should use SoB Acts of Faith because those are a result of a very intense and militant and supersecret training that zealots just don't have. Frateris Militia isn't "professional" enough - but their zeal could still be sufficient to just have them be crazy and focused enough to ignore injuries like the Sisters do.

SisterSydney wrote:Crusaders as squads -- with Stubborn to be ultimate tarpit.

Let's just get rid of them and steal their shields and swords for Scoring Celestians.

SisterSydney wrote:Sisters Bikes

Why do I have to think of the "Bloody Canoness" from Saint's Row now?

Bah, I'm split on this one. On one hand, Sisters on bikes sounds "groovy", but on the other it also sounds like Spess Mehreens. Our skirmishers are Seraphim. Air > Ground
And I still like that idea of Sisters rather using modded Tauros jeeps, like in the Hammer & Anvil novel.

Then again ...

Man, I actually played that game in, like, 1989.

How about Sisters on Mechanical Destriers (like the one the engineer dude has from Fantasy)?



Give them Storm Bolters and Shields with option to swap to Lances or something.

 Lynata wrote:

SisterSydney wrote:As for Frateris of various kinds, I'd like to see them contribute Faith Points to the army: They can't use Acts of Faith themselves, they lack the Sisters' focus, but their raw passion boosts the gestalt psychic field from which the Sisters draw the power for their Acts.

You heretic.

"No Adepta Sororitas character will ever have psychic powers of any sort."
- Inquisitor RPG

The Imperium can say Acts of Faith are not a psychic effect, and GW can use different rules for them, but c'mon, what else are they? (Interesting: If Sisters are gestalt psykers, their immunity to daemonic corruption & Perils of the Warp means they are the closest humanity has ever gotten to the mature race of stable psykers the Emperor is supposed to have been working for.)

 Lynata wrote:

SisterSydney wrote:Sisters Bikes

Why do I have to think of the "Bloody Canoness" from Saint's Row now?

Bah, I'm split on this one. On one hand, Sisters on bikes sounds "groovy", but on the other it also sounds like Spess Mehreens. ....

That's why I'm thinking bikes that use Cavalry rules, precisely so they're more agile and more fragile -- more feminine, even -- than their Marine counterparts.

 SisterSydney wrote:
The Imperium can say Acts of Faith are not a psychic effect, and GW can use different rules for them, but c'mon, what else are they?

They are faith. Faith moves mountains. Faith is willpower manifest. Mind over matter. It doesn't have to be psychic.

 SisterSydney wrote:
The Imperium can say Acts of Faith are not a psychic effect, and GW can use different rules for them, but c'mon, what else are they?

Their minds pushing their bodies to great feats. Think "mother lifting car off of her baby" type stuff.

I used to have the same assumption about it, actually, but then I had the relevant studio material pointed out to me, and now I'm quite that they're really not harnessing psychic power. They're just that badass.

It is the God-Emperor of Mankind working through them, the most faithful and devoted of His servants.

Citation needed.

Divine Magic theory.

 Psienesis wrote:
It is the God-Emperor of Mankind working through them, the most faithful and devoted of His servants.

I'm pretty sure that the Sisters are an unreliable source.

In the 2e and 5e codexes, it says something along the lines of their Acts only being seemingly miraculous, which implies that they're not actually miracles. They just look that way. But yes, this doesn't change that they are still His most faithful servants. And in fact, that is exactly why they can do that stuff, so the principle is still kinda the same.

But if you like the idea of Big E himself lending the Sisters a helping hand (which I certainly do), it's very easy to look at Celestine in that way...

Of course, there's the problem of the HH books showing what looks like Divine Magic as well, as well as Celestine and the other saints (Sabbat in Abnett's books) doing way crazy crap. I like that we don't know for sure what it is.

 Psienesis wrote:
It is the God-Emperor of Mankind working through them, the most faithful and devoted of His servants.

And the God-Emperor of Mankind is.... wait for it... a psyker!

SisterSydney wrote:The Imperium can say Acts of Faith are not a psychic effect, and GW can use different rules for them, but c'mon, what else are they?

"For millennia, the Sisters have practiced their unique method of war, combining combat doctrine and prayer which enables them to accomplish feats upon the battlefield that appear miraculous to the unschooled."
- 3E C:WH

"Whilst combat drills and studies of tactics can hone the body, only prayer can bolster the spirit, and all three are required to defeat the Imperium's foes. The combination of combat doctrine and prayer is most evident on the battlefield where Battle Sisters loudly proclaim their faith in hymn and verse as they march to war, calling upon the Emperor to aid them in the fight against their enemies. The perfervid, unquestioning nature of this faith is a potent weapon, manifesting as divine inspiration that drives the Adepta Sororitas to unprecedented feats of prowess."
- 5E C:SoB

And in 3E, the Shield of Faith actually passively negated psychic powers - even benign ones - as the Sisters' willpower and conviction rejected the corrupting taint creeping forth from the Immaterium. I think it is this that makes them so resistant against corruption, which at times does not only come in issues of morale, but also supernatural mind control or warpspawned sickness and mutation.

There's a number of non-GW sources going against this principle, but I actually like GW's version way more, as it lets them appear even more badass rather than reducing them to Space Wizards. Magic powers? Nope, they're just so goddamn stubborn they refuse to drop dead.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Order traits would be interesting, as long as it's nothing major that breaks their uniformity/connection.

ClockworkZion wrote:Valkyries and Avengers in the codex FTW.

Avengers are ugly. Lightnings Go!

Plus, the original Lightning seems OOP at FW, so might actually have a chance at being picked up by GW?

No, FW replaced the old one with this: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Navy/VOSS_PATTERN_LIGHTNING_STRIKE_FIGHTER.html

And I happen to like the Avenger. That bolt cannon makes things cry.

The Avenger reminds me of pod racers from Star Wars episode 1. It's probably having the engines in front and to either side of the rest of the aircraft. And the jet turbines themselves look like they were lifted directly from the movie.

 SisterSydney wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
It is the God-Emperor of Mankind working through them, the most faithful and devoted of His servants.

And the God-Emperor of Mankind is.... wait for it... a psyker!

Yeah, but he's not a witch so he's an all-right dude.

 Lynata wrote:
There's a number of non-GW sources going against this principle, but I actually like GW's version way more, as it lets them appear even more badass rather than reducing them to Space Wizards. Magic powers? Nope, they're just so goddamn stubborn they refuse to drop dead.

Yep. Willpower is key. Especially when dealing with the warp. I really hope we end up getting Adamantium Will someday.

 pretre wrote:
Of course, there's the problem of the HH books

Black Library says a lot of things, though.

 pretre wrote:
as well as Celestine and the other saints (Sabbat in Abnett's books) doing way crazy crap

This I'm fine with. It's quite clear that Living Saints are magical, and aren't necessarily the same things as Acts of Faith.

 pretre wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
There's a number of non-GW sources going against this principle, but I actually like GW's version way more, as it lets them appear even more badass rather than reducing them to Space Wizards. Magic powers? Nope, they're just so goddamn stubborn they refuse to drop dead.

Yep. Willpower is key. Especially when dealing with the warp. I really hope we end up getting Adamantium Will someday.

Me too. It'd give us back our old Shield of Faith rule without making us lose our new one.

Yes please! Adamantium Will is almost a must. I was actually disappointed about the new Shield of Faith. Invul saves are nice (and in a way also reflect their stubbornness, especially as you can still negate some psychic powers with it), but the obvious psyker rejection sounded soo much more fitting.

Troike wrote:This I'm fine with. It's quite clear that Living Saints are magical, and aren't necessarily the same things as Acts of Faith.

That, and going by GW Sabbat wasn't even a Living Saint.
But that just reflects what you said about Black Library in general.

Did you guys notice that Forge World no longer sells their alternate Immolator?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Sisters_Of_Battle

Also, I feel like other stuff is missing as well...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lynata wrote:
Yes please! Adamantium Will is almost a must. I was actually disappointed about the new Shield of Faith. Invul saves are nice (and in a way also reflect their stubbornness, especially as you can still negate some psychic powers with it), but the obvious psyker rejection sounded soo much more fitting.

Troike wrote:This I'm fine with. It's quite clear that Living Saints are magical, and aren't necessarily the same things as Acts of Faith.

That, and going by GW Sabbat wasn't even a Living Saint.
But that just reflects what you said about Black Library in general.

Did Adamantium Will even exist in 5th edition, when the Sisters of Battle WD dex was written?

I suppose they could've given it to them and then when 6th came out, update it in the FAQ to "Replace X rule with Adamantium Will."

RE: Adamantium Wiill. No, but we have had resistance to psychic powers previously.

Pouncey wrote:Did Adamantium Will even exist in 5th edition, when the Sisters of Battle WD dex was written?

Now that you mention it ...

"Deny the Witch" is a 6E addition, and "Adamantium Will" is a bonus to DtW, sooo ...

Wow, I'd be quite happy if that upcoming Digital Codex would actually give us Adamantium Will. I'm not expecting it, but damn, it just feels like we have a right to it.

 Pouncey wrote:
Did you guys notice that Forge World no longer sells their alternate Immolator?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Sisters_Of_Battle

Also, I feel like other stuff is missing as well...

Nah, there were only six products there, previously.

So, what are our theories about the FW Immolator being reitred?

 Troike wrote:
So, what are our theories about the FW Immolator being reitred?

Redundant kit. They sold what they had in stock and let it go. Exorcist will be next.

 Pouncey wrote:
Did you guys notice that Forge World no longer sells their alternate Immolator?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Sisters_Of_Battle

Also, I feel like other stuff is missing as well...

That Immolator has been missing for a while or I've never noticed it before. :/

I want Sisters to get Preferred Enemy (Psyker) (and have it work when they shoot/assault units with Psykers hiding in them too).

pretre wrote:

Troike wrote:So, what are our theories about the FW Immolator being reitred?

Redundant kit. They sold what they had in stock and let it go. Exorcist will be next.

Damn, was just about to post the same.

Yeah, I'm going with this most grounded theory as well. It probably didn't sell too well over the past years .. decades ..

 pretre wrote:
Redundant kit. They sold what they had in stock and let it go. Exorcist will be next.

I won't miss them, myself. The GW kits are much better looking, IMO. All of that iconograpy is really nice.

And, come on, a sensible looking Exorcist is borderline heresy.

I can't stand the FW exorcist. It is just so boring.

 pretre wrote:
RE: Adamantium Wiill. No, but we have had resistance to psychic powers previously.

Mmhm, Shield of Faith in the Witch Hunters codex (probably earlier, too, but Witch Hunters was my first Sororitas codex so I dunno).

That Shield of Faith turned from a chance to nullify nearby psyker powers in C:WH, to a generic 6++ invulnerable save in the 2011 WD dex.

Adamantium Will would be nice and fluffy, though. ^_^ But I do wonder if they made up that part about the Sisters being highly resistant to psykers specifically to synergize Sisters of Battle to be a natural go-to force for the Ordo Hereticus, who deal largely with rogue psykers, instead of having it naturally be a part of the Sororitas as the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy. But I guess if I went down that path, Sororitas should be an internal police force for taking out rogue Space Marines and other bad things, like I've heard they were originally.

 Pouncey wrote:

 pretre wrote:
RE: Adamantium Wiill. No, but we have had resistance to psychic powers previously.

Mmhm, Shield of Faith in the Witch Hunters codex (probably earlier, too, but Witch Hunters was my first Sororitas codex so I dunno).

I don't think it was in the 2nd Ed one, but I don't bring my codexes with me to school, so take that how you will.

 Pouncey wrote:
That Shield of Faith turned from a chance to nullify nearby psyker powers in C:WH, to a generic 6++ invulnerable save in the 2011 WD dex.

I'm not against it since it increased the life span of my units.

 Pouncey wrote:
Adamantium Will would be nice and fluffy, though. ^_^ But I do wonder if they made up that part about the Sisters being highly resistant to psykers specifically to synergize Sisters of Battle to be a natural go-to force for the Ordo Hereticus, who deal largely with rogue psykers, instead of having it naturally be a part of the Sororitas as the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy. But I guess if I went down that path, Sororitas should be an internal police force for taking out rogue Space Marines and other bad things, like I've heard they were originally.

Yeah, I'd love to see that come back as an army trait too.

Yeah, I love me some 6++

Just noticed something of possible interest... All Seraphim Superiors are now gone from the UK GW site (glad I snagged one off eBay!), but Arco-flagellants, Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders seem to have been added to their HQ section. They're letting the metal models deplete, I guess? It's certainly a good sign that those additions to the HQ seciton were made, though. They really should have been there from the get-go of the 5e codex, glad they've finally addressd it.

Yeah, I do agree that's the most likely scenario about the Immolator. I just noticed it was gone while browsing.

And I'd still like an all-plastic Exorcist, but I'd be very happy if it was just an all-plastic version of the current GW model. Would make it easier to put together at the least.

The Superiors are still on the US site, that was noticed a while back.

And Arco, DCA and Crusaders are HQs in the codex and have been there for a while.

 Troike wrote:
Just noticed something of possible interest... All Seraphim Superiors are now gone from the UK GW site (glad I snagged one off eBay!), but Arco-flagellants, Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders seem to have been added to their HQ section. They're letting the metal models deplete, I guess? It's certainly a good sign that those additions to the HQ seciton were made, though. They really should have been there from the get-go of the 5e codex, glad they've finally addressd it.

I actually sent GW an e-mail asking them to put the Battle Conclave models in the Sisters of Battle section a number of months ago. When I saw that they had a couple of weeks ago, I was, "OMG SQWEEEEEEE THEY TOOK MY SUGGESTION! : D : D : D : D"

I distinctly remember the adding of the four : D faces.

And on the Canadian site, there's two Seraphim Superiors listed, one with a plasma pistol and power sword, and the one from the old 5-woman kit with the bolt pistol and power sword. I coulda sworn there was one with a pistol and a chainsword, but I can't imagine why anyone would take away a pistol to add a chainsword...

 Troike wrote:
Just noticed something of possible interest... All Seraphim Superiors are now gone from the UK GW site (glad I snagged one off eBay!), but Arco-flagellants, Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders seem to have been added to their HQ section. They're letting the metal models deplete, I guess? It's certainly a good sign that those additions to the HQ seciton were made, though. They really should have been there from the get-go of the 5e codex, glad they've finally addressd it.

I doubt anything malicious is going on here, probably just need to do another small batch casting run on the models.

From the US Kyrinov page:

Availability:
This product is expected to despatch within four weeks.

I've seen that happen before.

Then again maybe they're planning on making our SCs Finecast like everyone else's?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Just noticed something of possible interest... All Seraphim Superiors are now gone from the UK GW site (glad I snagged one off eBay!), but Arco-flagellants, Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders seem to have been added to their HQ section. They're letting the metal models deplete, I guess? It's certainly a good sign that those additions to the HQ seciton were made, though. They really should have been there from the get-go of the 5e codex, glad they've finally addressd it.

I doubt anything malicious is going on here, probably just need to do another small batch casting run on the models.

From the US Kyrinov page:

Availability:
This product is expected to despatch within four weeks.

I've seen that happen before.

Then again maybe they're planning on making our SCs Finecast like everyone else's?

Or better yet, making ALL of our models Finecast. : D

:: waits for the laughter to start ::

Not funny, huh...

Edit: Actually, all our metal infantry going Finecast might not be that terrible... They might actually stock them in the stores if they did that. Maybe in expensive box sets that would be less expensive than they are now...

 Pouncey wrote:

Or better yet, making ALL of our models Finecast. : D

:: waits for the laughter to start ::

Not funny, huh...

I'd buy 9 Finecast Penitent Engines.

 Pouncey wrote:
Or better yet, making ALL of our models Finecast. : D

If I didn't already have my army, I wouldn't mind that. Converting is a lot easier.

I would actually buy a bunch of finecast penitent engines probably though.

Let's not turn this into a finecast thread though.

Pouncey wrote:Mmhm, Shield of Faith in the Witch Hunters codex (probably earlier, too, but Witch Hunters was my first Sororitas codex so I dunno).

Nah, 2E had Rites of Battle.
Those were pretty snazzy, too, though. I'd love to see them return.

Pouncey wrote:But I do wonder if they made up that part about the Sisters being highly resistant to psykers specifically to synergize Sisters of Battle to be a natural go-to force for the Ordo Hereticus, who deal largely with rogue psykers, instead of having it naturally be a part of the Sororitas as the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy.

Makes sense, at least for strengthening the point. They would have been considered natural allies anyways due to the Sisters being described (starting from 1E Rogue Trader and onward!) as doing purity sweeps and hunting down mutants and witches, and being resistant to corruption, but the Shield of Faith was a nice mechanical representation.
The designer's notes on the 3E Codex are a pretty cool read, explaining how they came up with various ideas.

Pouncey wrote:But I guess if I went down that path, Sororitas should be an internal police force for taking out rogue Space Marines and other bad things, like I've heard they were originally.

They still are, in a way.

"Upon declaring such a chapter Excommunicatus, an Inquisitor will attempt to determine the root cause of the rebellion in order to gauge the potential obstacles to neutralising it. Should he suspect that Chaos as the reason for the chapter's fall from grace, the Grey Knights may be mobilised. Should doctrinal heresy prove the immediate cause then the elite of the Adepta Sororitas may be the only force considered capable of prosecuting a War of Faith against the wayward chapter. On rare occasions, alien intervention may be suspected, and the highly skilled servants of the Ordo Xenos brought in to investigate."
- Index Astartes on Renegade Space Marines, WD #303 (2005)

Probably not too likely, anyways. GW seems to be remaking some of the metal and finecast kits in plastic - like Witch Elves (I got my October White Dwarf earlier this week), Sternguard/Vanguard - and have been making a lot of the new character models in plastic, even the ones without many options.

However, another thing on my Sisters of Battle wishlist, is a 3-model set of plastic Penitent Engines, like they did for Killa Kanz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lynata wrote:

Pouncey wrote:Mmhm, Shield of Faith in the Witch Hunters codex (probably earlier, too, but Witch Hunters was my first Sororitas codex so I dunno).

Nah, 2E had Rites of Battle.
Those were pretty snazzy, too, though. I'd love to see them return.

That Shield of Faith turned from a chance to nullify nearby psyker powers in C:WH, to a generic 6++ invulnerable save in the 2011 WD dex.

Pouncey wrote:But I do wonder if they made up that part about the Sisters being highly resistant to psykers specifically to synergize Sisters of Battle to be a natural go-to force for the Ordo Hereticus, who deal largely with rogue psykers, instead of having it naturally be a part of the Sororitas as the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy.

Makes sense, at least for strengthening the point. They would have been considered natural allies anyways due to the Sisters being described (starting from 1E Rogue Trader and onward!) as doing purity sweeps and hunting down mutants and witches, and being resistant to corruption, but the Shield of Faith was a nice mechanical representation.
The designer's notes on the 3E Codex are a pretty cool read, explaining how they came up with various ideas.

Pouncey wrote:But I guess if I went down that path, Sororitas should be an internal police force for taking out rogue Space Marines and other bad things, like I've heard they were originally.

They still are, in a way.

"Upon declaring such a chapter Excommunicatus, an Inquisitor will attempt to determine the root cause of the rebellion in order to gauge the potential obstacles to neutralising it. Should he suspect that Chaos as the reason for the chapter's fall from grace, the Grey Knights may be mobilised. Should doctrinal heresy prove the immediate cause then the elite of the Adepta Sororitas may be the only force considered capable of prosecuting a War of Faith against the wayward chapter. On rare occasions, alien intervention may be suspected, and the highly skilled servants of the Ordo Xenos brought in to investigate."
- Index Astartes on Renegade Space Marines, WD #303 (2005)

Neat. : D

I wonder who would be sent to capture for interrogation, a decently powerful heathen but not Chaos psyker on a relatively new Imperial planet who'd himself captured and turned quite a few Chaos Space Marines into his own personal army... during a Chaos invasion of the planet.

pretre wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
5 means BSS can fit inside of an Immolator.

I don't think that is necessary. It was weird that they gave the Immo to BSS in the WD.

It makes perfect sense to me - the Immolator was previously fieldable as an independent tank. This is just the same thing. Instead of fitting them in Heavy Support, they attached them to Sisters squads as auxiliary / extranumerary units. It's not a transport (APC), it's an infantry tank (IFV).

SisterSydney wrote:
Canoness "doctrines" (say, 30 points?) that can make Dominions, Seraphim, or Retributors troops (no Elites as troops, though; that seems.... off).

Seraphim are the rarest kind of Battle Sister, since they're born, not made. Dominions and Retributors, fine - they're just battle sister squads with extra special or heavy weapons, after all - but Seraphim need to remain rare and special.

ClockworkZion wrote:

From the US Kyrinov page:

Availability:
This product is expected to despatch within four weeks.

Despatch? It'll be a while before Kyrinov does that. Being dispatched on the other hand...

Pouncey wrote:
Neat. : D

I wonder who would be sent to capture for interrogation, a decently powerful heathen but not Chaos psyker on a relatively new Imperial planet who'd himself captured and turned quite a few Chaos Space Marines into his own personal army... during a Chaos invasion of the planet.

Probably a combined force of Battle Sisters and Assassins.