Troike wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Ideally, this should be Codex: Sisters of Battle, with Inquisition units mentioned nowhere, because seriously, we are Ecclesiarchy troops.

I agree with this. Let the Inquisition stay with the GKs. Ally Inquisition people or Stormtroopers in if you really want them, but keep the codex purely SoB/Ecclesiarchy. We need all the spotlight we can get, dammit.

Actually, I wouldn't even include the Ecclesiarchy that much. The Sisters should be Sisters in the same vein as how the GKs are GKs. One or two Ecclesiarch units are OK (just like how there are only 4-5 Inquisition units in the GK dex), but the Sisters of Battle codex should be about the Sisters.

Also, on this note, IMHO the fluff can use some work. Less "nuns with guns" (it is kinda' old and boring) and more "militaristic sisterhood" please. They should focus on the "Daughters of the Emperor" aspect of the SoB. Making them behave as if they were the real daughters of the Emprah would be cool.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I think there needs to be a thing were we treat armies with a Ordos Hereticus Inqusitor as Battle Brothers though, as that would be very fluffy.

That sounds cool, sure. As long as they don't take up more room than a few mentions in the text.

 AtoMaki wrote:
Actually, I wouldn't even include the Ecclesiarchy that much. The Sisters should be Sisters in the same vein as how the GKs are GKs. One or two Ecclesiarch units are OK (just like how there are only 4-5 Inquisition units in the GK dex), but the Sisters of Battle codex should be about the Sisters.

Oh course. That's basically how things are now anyway. I only included the Ecclesiarchy in that becuase they do have some units and fluff in the codex.

Though I will say, they would be an excellent source of a second troop choice: zealot mobs.

 AtoMaki wrote:
Also, on this note, IMHO the fluff can use some work. Less "nuns with guns" (it is kinda' old and boring) and more "militaristic sisterhood" please. They should focus on the "Daughters of the Emperor" aspect of the SoB.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. They already are a militaristic Sisterhood, in a sense. And their extreme devotion to big E makes focusing more on the "Daughters of the Emperor" thing kinda redundant. They're already extremely close to Him.

 AtoMaki wrote:
Making them behave as if they were the real daughters of the Emprah would be cool.

I'm pretty sure that that would be heresy.

Ralis wrote:I think instead of bikes, they should have something closer to ATV/Quads.

I know it's Forge World and Black Library, but damn, I've grown to like the Sororitas-issue Venator scout cars in "Hammer & Anvil"...

Ralis wrote:Also, at there core isn't the sisters of battle the military forces of the Ecclesiarchy?

They are. Just like the Imperial Guard is the military forces of the Departmento Munitorum, and you don't see Administratum clerks clugging up the Codex.

Don't get me wrong. The Ecclesiarchy is the Church Militant. It's a Warrior Religion that teaches the values of strength and sacrifice as ways to resist the predations of Mankind's enemies. But at the same time all those Cardinals and Preachers aren't a normal sight next to Battle Sisters when the latter deploy to do battle. Confessors are a normal and integrated part of a Guard regiment, but not of a Sororitas convent. The only times you should see clerics next to Sisters is as part of a bodyguard job or during an all-out War of Faith, and even in the latter, the Preachers are bound to say closer to their own Frateris Militia sheep, letting the Sisters do their thing.

The clergy doesn't land on daemon worlds or Ork-infested battlefields to recover lost relics. The clergy doesn't rush to assist embattled Astartes. The clergy doesn't drop-pod into a rogue Space Marine Chapter's HQ. And the clergy doesn't lead purges against its own Cardinals. All of this is entrusted to the Sisters of Battle, specifically because they are the Ecclesiarchy's military, the priesthood entrusting them with a task and then leaning back to let the experts do their job. The Codex even states how Church officials bow to a Canoness'es experience in any military matters.

I think the current Codex falls into a sort of "uncanny valley" where it has too much Ecclesiarchy to let the Sisters appear like its own organisation, but simultaneously not enough Ecclesiarchy to field those priests without Sisters (to represent, say, a local militia warband). They are missing the Zealots, which I think should be brought back. The clerics have no reason to be in the Codex without the people they'd actually lead in a conflict.

From a wishlist POV there are a few things I'd like to see in a SoB list.

Celestions being able to swap their bolters for a BP/CCW for free. And then being able to swap for two choices from the special/heavy/melee weapon lists

Mob troop choice. You really need another option besides the BSS, and this seems to be the obvious choice. I could also see a novice squad in carapace armor, but that's very marine-like. I'd rather see the local rabble whipped up into a frenzy. Which is more Chaos marine like with their cultists, but I find the dark mirror appealing.

A new tank. The holy trinity of weapons can be found on the predator chassis (which is basically an exorcist). HB/HF sponsons, flamestorm cannon on the turret, or the FW melta option. Slap some fluer de lies on it and start burning heretics.

Would be nice to get the move and shoot rule back for the immolator.

Judging from recent codexes, relics will return. Probably one armor, two swords, one gun, and a 2-3 "extras"

Speaking of mobs...I know exactly what models could be repurposed for the army:



As for a ranged attack, a BS 2, 12", S3, Assault 2 should be decent. What are they using? Stones, rocks, bits of masonry...whatever is handy to use on the enemy.

 Troike wrote:

I'm not sure what you're getting at. They already are a militaristic Sisterhood, in a sense. And their extreme devotion to big E makes focusing more on the "Daughters of the Emperor" thing kinda redundant. They're already extremely close to Him.

I was thinking more alongside the conceptions of the Valkyres. They were the daughters of Odin and the harbingers of his will. The Sisters could be something similar: a big all-female family that is only concerned with doing the Emperor's bidding and answering only to the Big E.

Nevelon wrote:A new tank. The holy trinity of weapons can be found on the predator chassis (which is basically an exorcist). HB/HF sponsons, flamestorm cannon on the turret, or the FW melta option. Slap some fluer de lies on it and start burning heretics.

Hmmm ... thinking about it, I could see that. It's a nice mental image.

Perhaps even have a sort of "heavy bolter + normal flamer" combi-weapon in the sponsons - so that you can equip both, but you can only fire one type per turn.

AtoMaki wrote:I was thinking more alongside the conceptions of the Valkyres. They were the daughters of Odin and the harbingers of his will. The Sisters could be something similar: a big all-female family that is only concerned with doing the Emperor's bidding and answering only to the Big E.

Wouldn't that move them closer to the SM again? The "crazy nun" aspect is one of the details that set them apart - and the reason for why they are able to resist corruption so well, or push themselves far enough to perform Acts of Faith.

 Lynata wrote:

Ralis wrote:I think instead of bikes, they should have something closer to ATV/Quads.

I know it's Forge World and Black Library, but damn, I've grown to like the Sororitas-issue Venator scout cars in "Hammer & Anvil"...

That's were I got the idea.

I really would like to see the Sisters get their own unique Flier, However I would be happy if they got either the Stormraven or Valkyrie.

Maybe something with the same stat line as the DA Nephilum, but with incindiary bombs, and avenger mega bolter

 Lynata wrote:
Wouldn't that move them closer to the SM again? The "crazy nun" aspect is one of the details that set them apart - and the reason for why they are able to resist corruption so well, or push themselves far enough to perform Acts of Faith.

It would definitely push them away from the "crazy monks" . And their bond with the Emperor through their "kinship" would make a much better explanation for their immunity to corruption and their superhuman performances. It would actually place them somewhere around the level of the Grey Knights (where they should be IMHO).

Except the GK are all witches. The reason the SOB are nigh-immune to corruption is through faith. No magic powers, no super-science gene-therapy, no bionic implants. Faith in the God-Emperor and a strong personal willpower.

Plus, don't you already have a kinship of the Emperor with the GK? I thought they used his genes for their creation, thus explaining their psychic potential ... though it's been a long time since I last read their fluff.

 Psienesis wrote:
Except the GK are all witches. The reason the SOB are nigh-immune to corruption is through faith. No magic powers, no super-science gene-therapy, no bionic implants. Faith in the God-Emperor and a strong personal willpower.

Actually, according to the GK codex, the main reasons why the GKs are uber-resistant are their rigorous training and mental fortitude. Everything else is either just a tool to wield or confers an advantage in areas other than purity. The Sisters are in the same boat, only that they have less toys to play with and they call their psychic powers Acts of Faith .

Agreed. [headcanon] AOF and Deny the Witch bonuses are just manifestations of a collective psychic gestalt that's naturally immune to the ill effects of the Warp, which makes Sisters the closest thing to the stable psychic race that the Emperor wanted humanity to evolve into.[/headcannon]

 SisterSydney wrote:
Agreed. [headcanon] AOF and Deny the Witch bonuses are just manifestations of a collective psychic gestalt that's naturally immune to the ill effects of the Warp, which makes Sisters the closest thing to the stable psychic race that the Emperor wanted humanity to evolve into.[/headcannon]

Headcannon?:

Meh, I prefer my Sisters remaining anti-psykers and would prefer if the 3E Shield of Faith with its undiscriminating negation would return... Pure willpower is so much more badass than Space Magic.

Haven't read through the whole topic so hit me it it was already discussed. But what about Sororita Silentum?
The Silent Sisterhood seemingly vanished from the background after the horus heresy. Why not bring those back into the SoB? An elite unit of all blanks - not only imune to psykers but also projecting a bubble that stops the use of psionic powers as well as negating psy energies that are already in effect?

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Except the GK are all witches. The reason the SOB are nigh-immune to corruption is through faith. No magic powers, no super-science gene-therapy, no bionic implants. Faith in the God-Emperor and a strong personal willpower.

Actually, according to the GK codex, the main reasons why the GKs are uber-resistant are their rigorous training and mental fortitude. Everything else is either just a tool to wield or confers an advantage in areas other than purity. The Sisters are in the same boat, only that they have less toys to play with and they call their psychic powers Acts of Faith .

Acts of Faith are not psychic powers, and are not countered by anti-psychic means.

 Psienesis wrote:

Acts of Faith are not psychic powers, and are not countered by anti-psychic means.

They are effectively Blessings. They need Warp Charge points (Faith Points), a successful Psychic Test (Act of Faith test) and you can't DtW them, just like Blessings. The only lucky thing is that they aren't called and treated like Psychic Powers, so Rune Priests can't mess them up for good and the Warp Storm table can't replace your Sisters with Heralds .

 AtoMaki wrote:
They are effectively Blessings. They need Warp Charge points (Faith Points), a successful Psychic Test (Act of Faith test) and you can't DtW them, just like Blessings. The only lucky thing is that they aren't called and treated like Psychic Powers, so Rune Priests can't mess them up for good and the Warp Storm table can't replace your Sisters with Heralds .

The studio fluff has been fairly clear in saying that they're not a psychic phenomenon. To quote Lynata from earlier in this topic:

 Lynata wrote:
"For millennia, the Sisters have practiced their unique method of war, combining combat doctrine and prayer which enables them to accomplish feats upon the battlefield that appear miraculous to the unschooled."
- 3E C:WH

"Whilst combat drills and studies of tactics can hone the body, only prayer can bolster the spirit, and all three are required to defeat the Imperium's foes. The combination of combat doctrine and prayer is most evident on the battlefield where Battle Sisters loudly proclaim their faith in hymn and verse as they march to war, calling upon the Emperor to aid them in the fight against their enemies. The perfervid, unquestioning nature of this faith is a potent weapon, manifesting as divine inspiration that drives the Adepta Sororitas to unprecedented feats of prowess."
- 5E C:SoB

And in 3E, the Shield of Faith actually passively negated psychic powers - even benign ones - as the Sisters' willpower and conviction rejected the corrupting taint creeping forth from the Immaterium. I think it is this that makes them so resistant against corruption, which at times does not only come in issues of morale, but also supernatural mind control or warpspawned sickness and mutation.

There's a number of non-GW sources going against this principle, but I actually like GW's version way more, as it lets them appear even more badass rather than reducing them to Space Wizards. Magic powers? Nope, they're just so goddamn stubborn they refuse to drop dead.

And there's also this:
http://web.archive.org/web/20071026021921/http://es.games-workshop.com/especialista/inquisitor/bestiario/sororitas.html
From GW's game Inquisitor, which specifically says that Acts of Faith are not counted as psychic powers.

 AtoMaki wrote:
Actually, according to the GK codex, the main reasons why the GKs are uber-resistant are their rigorous training and mental fortitude.

Not exactly. From what I've heard, the codex implies that a lot of their immunity comes from their willingness to carry out rituals and such. Just look at the Bloodtide, one faction there resisted through sheer willpower, one faction needed to use blood magic to resist.

The GK, in keeping with their whole anti-Daemon thing, are practitioners of all kinds of sorceries, keepers of various librams and grimoires of fell magics and ancient rites, and all those sorts of things.

To me, it's the most interesting aspect of the Grey Knights, that they use weapons that would damn a lesser man to even touch as part of their arsenal against the Daemonic.

 Troike wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:
Actually, according to the GK codex, the main reasons why the GKs are uber-resistant are their rigorous training and mental fortitude.

Not exactly. From what I've heard, the codex implies that a lot of their immunity comes from their willingness to carry out rituals and such. Just look at the Bloodtide, one faction there resisted through sheer willpower, one faction needed to use blood magic to resist.

Oh, the Bloodtide where the GKs killed the Sisters to merge with their "purity" to be immune against the corruption? reminds me the old Chaos Sorcerer fluff where they sacrificed their thrall wizards to enhance their psychic powers .

And no, Grey Knights don't use rituals. All their prowess is the result of their training and extraordinary willpower. Even their psychic powers are fueled by their willpower. Their codex is pretty clear about this. Really, the Sisters are actually quite similar to GKs even in their current incarnation. They play in a lower league, have less bling and much more religion but pretty much that's all.

 AtoMaki wrote:
Oh, the Bloodtide where the GKs killed the Sisters to merge with their "purity" to be immune against the corruption?

Not exactly how it's described. It says that the blood of the Sisters is used to create a talisman of purity by mixing it with "blessed oils", not that it "merges" with the purity of the Knights. So it was the talisman itself that protected them, doesn't say anything about their own purity/fortitude.

On a related note, it specifically says that they "Needing a talisman of purity to protect agains the Bloodtide's taint" (emphasis mine), which seems to imply that without the blood, they would have been tainted. Didn't notice that before.

 AtoMaki wrote:
And no, Grey Knights don't use rituals.

Then what would you call the Bloodtide?

btldoomhammer wrote:Haven't read through the whole topic so hit me it it was already discussed. But what about Sororita Silentum?
The Silent Sisterhood seemingly vanished from the background after the horus heresy. Why not bring those back into the SoB?

The Sisters of Silence are an invention of the freelance novel authors working on the Horus Heresy series. So far, the core GW studio has to endorse their existence at all, even as far as the Horus Heresy is concerned.
There's also the little detail that Blanks, going by GW's own material, are supposed to be incredibly rare. The few that survive long enough to be found out are handed to the Officio Assassinorum to be trained as Culexus, or end up in some Inquisitor's retinue. If they are not executed outright, that is.

"The mark that Black bears is that of the psychic null known to Imperial scolars as a Pariah, an affliction that affects only a handful of children across the whole galaxy in each generation."
- http://web.archive.org/web/20080316022255/http://es.games-workshop.com/especialista/inquisitor/bestiario/dorian.html

The idea of a whole army of Blanks ... further restricted by gender and military qualifications ... meh.
I know the SoS have their fans, and the following will probably not endear me to them, but to me the Sisters of Silence are a cheap SoB-knockoff and yet another example for how the novels like to dismiss what is printed in studio fluff.

Just give the SoB their old Shield of Faith back ... or at least Adamantium Will!

Troike wrote:And there's also this:
http://web.archive.org/web/20071026021921/http://es.games-workshop.com/especialista/inquisitor/bestiario/sororitas.html
From GW's game Inquisitor, which specifically says that Acts of Faith are not counted as psychic powers.

And, more importantly, that a Sororitas may never have any psychic powers.
I'm guessing now, but I think it's safe to say that any orphan who ends up in the Schola will be extensively checked for genetic purity. Psyker gene? Just step right into the Black Ship here.

Of course, there's no such thing as a 100% consistent canon in 40k, and I think the material is intentionally vague on a lot of topics just so we can pick what we like most. But I grew up with what I read in the codices, and to me it just makes them look even stronger for it.

Anyway back to the deiscussion about sisters wishlisting instead of some silly wardism...

(my fandex is better than yours neener neener neener )

 Melissia wrote:
Anyway back to the deiscussion about sisters wishlisting instead of some silly wardism...

I wouldn't mind Ward wiritng it, actually. He wrote their fluff properly in the 5e 'dex (Praxedes aside) and he's known for making competetive armies.

Kelly could also be a good choice. He's expressed interest in writing them, which is always a good sign, and he codexes generally seem to be okay.

A psychic test is a leadership test, a Faith test is a flat D6 roll. Not the same thing at all.

Besides, Blessings have to be activated in the Psychic subphase, Acts of Faith can be activated at the start of any phase.

According to the GK codex, their immunity to corruption is a combination of training, indoctrination and fortitude - the training part of which includes blood rituals such as that used against the Blood Tide, mantras (such as the ennumerations used by the thousand sons before their fall) and correct usage of the Aegis anti-psi bodysuit.

Sisters are just badass enough to shrug it off.

On the other hand, you have to realise that Sisters are inherently more resistant to daemonic and warp corruption than Grey Knights. Simply being a psyker makes you vulnerable to anything warp-borne, so it's doubtful that the Grey Knights would be immune to warpcraft in the same way as the Sisters are without the additional help of the Aegis and their profane knowledge.

Edit: Incidentally, the Sisters of Silence originate from the Collected Visions artbook, I believe, somewhat predating the Horus Heresy novels. They're still a SoB-knockoff because they couldn't put Sisters in the Horus Heresy artbook, but still, they have a little more heritage than Lynata implied.

I have to admit I liked the GK more when they were still shining paladins not relying on Chaos Sorcery to stave off corruption ...
... on the other hand, I have to agree that this creates an interesting conflict between their apparent image and their actual practices, and I do like such contradictions as much as 40k as a setting seems to do. Perhaps the shining paladins didn't quite "fit" the theme, as sad as it is.

Troike wrote:I wouldn't mind Ward wiritng it, actually. He wrote their fluff properly in the 5e 'dex (Praxedes aside) and he's known for making competetive armies. Kelly could also be a good choice. He's expressed interest in writing them, which is always a good sign, and he codexes generally seem to be okay.

Get Andy Hoare back on board!

Hmm, you know...

I'd like to see Sisters Hospitaler as ICs that you can buy for squads of Battle Sisters, perhaps certain other units (not Repentia). She has similar stats to a bog-standard Battle Sister, and grants the unit FNP for as long as she's alive, *or* can grant an RP-like effect (5+?) due to her medical ministrations if the unit does not move in the player turn following a turn in which they take casualties.

I'd like to see Sisters Dialoguous as ICs that you can buy for squads that grant one of a set of rules, to reflect the Dialoguous' knowledge and learning. Something like PE or a +1 to the unit's DtW tests or something along those lines, reflecting that individual's area of expertise.

Alternately, make the Dialoguous a squad or character that accompanies a Relic carried into battle, similar to the crew of on-table artillery pieces and grants some sort of Army-wide (or 24" or whatever) buff to SOB and allied Imperial armies (SM, IG, etc.).

And Biker Nuns with Guns has to happen now. Big, gnarly, blinged out Church-trikes. Wheels studded with fleur de lis, twin-linked heavy flamers on the front, straight church-organ exhaust pipes, all gold and belching smoke and incense. Laud-hailer cherub. Rosary w/ Aquila or Ecclesiarchal =I= all hanging off the ape-hanger handlebars.

Ah, whatever you convinced me, no psychic shenanigans for the Sisters! Luckily, I have the excuse of not being a SoB player (but my most frequent opponent is a massive SoB fanatic with 20k points of pure sisters, but he plays using his own fandex and not the WDex) so please, don't make me repent or something !

 Psienesis wrote:
And Biker Nuns with Guns has to happen now. Big, gnarly, blinged out Church-trikes. Wheels studded with fleur de lis, twin-linked heavy flamers on the front, straight church-organ exhaust pipes, all gold and belching smoke and incense. Laud-hailer cherub. Rosary w/ Aquila or Ecclesiarchal =I= all hanging off the ape-hanger handlebars.

I was rather apprehensive about the idea of bikes, seeing as it could be seen as just copying the Marines, but this made me a little more open to the idea. The Sisters are good at making things look awesome.

They'd have to play fairly differnetly to the Marine bikes, of course.

And while we're talking about the Dialogus, get her a new model. One with a better face. And without the Inquisition symbol on her.

 Lynata wrote:

Troike wrote:I wouldn't mind Ward wiritng it, actually. He wrote their fluff properly in the 5e 'dex (Praxedes aside) and he's known for making competetive armies. Kelly could also be a good choice. He's expressed interest in writing them, which is always a good sign, and he codexes generally seem to be okay.

Get Andy Hoare back on board!

He has been doing freelance work for them after he left, I think. Though I don't know if they'd ask him to come and help with a codex. It'd certainly make for good fluff, though.

I'm not a fan of bikes for SoB.

Maybe I just like the imagery of mythological Valkyries too much but I think giving SoB a unit that plays off that theme would look cool... Flying mechanical horses... Allowing the unit to choose between movement profiles or maybe being cavalry that ignores intervening terrain for movement.

If one looks at the medieval church, which GW has modeled the Imperium's... there is a certain theatricality designed to assert the faith's divine connection. Giant roving abbeys and living saints are a good example of how this translates into 40k. I think it's something an SoB "Valkyrie" type unit would further bring to their list.

How about male SOB?

I think the Valkyrie imagery is pretty well-established in the Seraphim squads, "descending from the heavens on wings of fire" and all that.

While I'm sure the Sisters will get some sort of MC, probably something similar to a Centurion... I really, really hope they don't go with a giant walking statue thing. It just... I dunno, seems more AdMech than SOB, because it won't be the Sisters building that statue, it's going to be some AdMech servitor-like monstrosity. Like an MC Dreadnought with boobs... and I'm just not keen on the idea.

Well, actually, it's not really the idea I have a problem with, it's how I think GW would implement it. That is where I think it'll go wrong, having seen the Dreadknight, the Riptide and the Centurions. It just cannot end well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sing your life wrote:
How about male SOB?

Burn, heretic.

 sing your life wrote:
How about male SOB?

Really?

Robot pegasi makes as much sense as cyber-aquilas, I guess.

My idea for the SoB bikes was to actually make them part of the Retributor corps. Each bike is crewed by a single Retributor and carries a panier-mounted heavy bolter that can be exchanged for a torrent flamer or a multi-melta (because a non-torrent, forward-firing flamer on a fast moving, open-topped vehicle is something that can pretty much always be classified as a bad idea). They come in squads of two to five, with the sister superior's bike having some kind of holy wind chime instead of the heavy weapon. The effects are something like a +1 to faith tests on any unit the squad drives by.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Robot pegasi makes as much sense as cyber-aquilas, I guess.

My idea for the SoB bikes was to actually make them part of the Retributor corps. Each bike is crewed by a single Retributor and carries a panier-mounted heavy bolter that can be exchanged for a torrent flamer or a multi-melta (because a non-torrent, forward-firing flamer on a fast moving, open-topped vehicle is something that can pretty much always be classified as a bad idea). They come in squads of two to five, with the sister superior's bike having some kind of holy wind chime instead of the heavy weapon. The effects are something like a +1 to faith tests on any unit the squad drives by.

While I agree that forward-mounting a flamethrower on a motorcycle is a terrible idea...

... so is running naked (or nearly so) into futuristic combat armed with a two-handed chainsaw wrapped in lightning. But, hey, of course it's a terrible idea. Some of our greatest adventures have started with a terrible idea.

Though you could always replace the flamer with a twin-linked heavy bolter or stormbolter or multi-melta. My idea is simply more cinematic... the Sister races up, spraying gouts of flame into a line of heretic troops, and then simply crushes them under the aquila-spiked rear wheels as she pops a wheelie and tears through their lines, engines roaring as she plows through the flames she has so generously sprayed on them.

andrewm9 wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
How about male SOB?

Really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E781QE7ZQK8

andrewm9 wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
How about male SOB?

Really?

Why not? I'm sure surgery is good enough in the universe that the Imperium could physically alter men to the point they were indistinguishable. Of course as they are currently inferior, they woud have to be trainees (kind of like Scouts in Space Marine armies.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Robot pegasi makes as much sense as cyber-aquilas, I guess.

My idea for the SoB bikes was to actually make them part of the Retributor corps. Each bike is crewed by a single Retributor and carries a panier-mounted heavy bolter that can be exchanged for a torrent flamer or a multi-melta (because a non-torrent, forward-firing flamer on a fast moving, open-topped vehicle is something that can pretty much always be classified as a bad idea). They come in squads of two to five, with the sister superior's bike having some kind of holy wind chime instead of the heavy weapon. The effects are something like a +1 to faith tests on any unit the squad drives by.

Someone pointed out before that in novels the SoB are mentioned as having armed cars of sorts. Couldn't that accomplish the same thing as your bikes.

 aka_mythos wrote:
Someone pointed out before that in novels the SoB are mentioned as having armed cars of sorts. Couldn't that accomplish the same thing as your bikes.

Yes, but it wouldn't be as cool.

It's the sort of thing that begs the question... Why don't marines have that? -It's a bike trying to perform the same role as an attack bike. Is there any rationale for SoB being privaleged with this technology? An armored and gunned jeep doing the same doesn't raise those question while bringing the a SoB something distinct. I'm all for SoB having their own unique units but this doesn't seem to make sense.

The Adeptus Arbites have been known to use speeders in the vein of the LS Storm to move teams up and down the spires of hive worlds. It's strikes me as the sort of technology SoB would have access on their own or even through their relationship with Arbites. Does anyone have a distinctive take on this sort of unit?

This has been posted elsewhere on the forums, but it bears repeating....


While there are some Marine Chapters that make use of bikes, the Sisters are noted as being equipped similarly and to the same standard of quality as any Space Marine Chapter. So it's not really an issue of the Sisters borrowing from the SM, it's a matter of displaying options the Sisters should have had all along, according to their fluff.

Bikes are also more mobile than a car or a jeep, able to go places that a four-wheeled vehicle cannot, simply by the virtue of being smaller. Though giving the Sisters a 40k-version of a Warthog... blinged out with all the Ecclesiarchal stuff... that could be cool, too.

We are talking about a specifically mentioned armored car that SoB are shown to use in a novel. As opposed to an extrapolation based on a generalized reference to their equipment that has then been taken to an extreme that exceeds what even marines get. You're talking a bike armed like an attack bike. Surely if that were possible Marines would do it instead of just giving the random marine a special weapon.

Sure.

There's a reason this thread is titled "Wishlist".

Psienesis wrote:This has been posted elsewhere on the forums, but it bears repeating....

You know, I only posted that as a joke.

I still think that 5-girl Scout cars > Bikes, but I guess that's just a matter of clashing personal preferences. No big deal.

As to the idea of making Hospitallers or Dialogous ICs ... I dunno. It'd fit to the idea that the convents are organised similarly to the Space Marines (and thus having an Apothecarion and a Librarium), but I rather like the idea of these characters being a bit more rare in the field.

Instead, I'd rather have, say, the Hospitaller's +FNP be an area effect instead of limited to the Command Squad, representing the Sister running off to help others nearby. Alternatively, okay, have her be an IC, but limited to a single model, deploying with the Command Squad but then detaching?

(and relic-stuff is what the Sisters Pronatus are for, though I think any relics should be carried by the Sisters Superior and/or the Palatine/Canoness)

Happyjew wrote:Why not? I'm sure surgery is good enough in the universe that the Imperium could physically alter men to the point they were indistinguishable. Of course as they are currently inferior, they woud have to be trainees (kind of like Scouts in Space Marine armies.

But w-why would you??
Male progena with sufficient qualifications get sent to the Commissariat, the Munitorum's Storm Trooper regiment or the ISTs. Or the Arbites, or the IG/Navy, or the clergy, the Administratum... It's not like the Schola doesn't know what to do with them.

I think it's a fairly important thematic element to have Space Marines = The Guys, Battle Sisters = The Girls. It creates a nice polarisation between the sexes, accompanied by the Imperial Guard as an Equal Opportunities Employer (depending on the individual homeworld).

Seems dakkaites are difficulties spotting jokes...

 sing your life wrote:
Seems dakkaites are difficulties spotting jokes...

Seems dakkaites are difficulties writing jokes.

Am I doing it right?

More on topic all this back and forth on different ideas makes me want to try my hand at writing a fandex. I figure by the time it's done the real codex will be out.

As to the idea of making Hospitallers or Dialogous ICs ... I dunno. It'd fit to the idea that the convents are organised similarly to the Space Marines (and thus having an Apothecarion and a Librarium), but I rather like the idea of these characters being a bit more rare in the field.

That's why I went with ICs rather than entire squads of them, or simply some SR that suggested there's an entire legion of Hospitalers just chilling in a MASH behind the lines. I think we need to see some more table-top representation of some of the non-Militant Orders.

Instead, I'd rather have, say, the Hospitaller's +FNP be an area effect instead of limited to the Command Squad, representing the Sister running off to help others nearby. Alternatively, okay, have her be an IC, but limited to a single model, deploying with the Command Squad but then detaching?

Could work simply as an IC that is attached to the Command Squad but applies the rule to the Army as casualties are either evacuated to the rear (indicating by her presence that there is Hospitaler support available) or by her moving hither and yon to assist where she may.

And when I say "relic", I'm talking the big stuff. The stuff that isn't really (wo)man-portable. Big chunks of a church founded by the early Thorians or immediate post-Apostasy-type stuff. Big stuff that requires its own tracked vehicle to transport.

Psienesis wrote:or by her moving hither and yon to assist where she may

That's what I'm thinking about. Just a lone Hospitaller (or a team? hmm) scurrying across the battlefield to provide an AoE FNP wherever it's needed most.
It does feel as if the IG should have something similar, though...

Army-wide FNP just by her "being" there, would probably be a bit too powerful .. or result in a rather drastic point cost.

Psienesis wrote:And when I say "relic", I'm talking the big stuff. The stuff that isn't really (wo)man-portable. Big chunks of a church founded by the early Thorians or immediate post-Apostasy-type stuff. Big stuff that requires its own tracked vehicle to transport.

And again we arrive at the penitent-pulled golden skull and its mouth-fired mega-melta!

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Seems dakkaites are difficulties spotting jokes...

Seems dakkaites are difficulties writing jokes.

Am I doing it right?

You're just jealous that your skill in humour is much less than mine

Exactly. Maybe a giant gold Aquila that fires a death-ray-like weapon from its one eye: Select a point on the battlefield. Select another point within 24". Draw a line between those points. Any unit(s) that falls under that line takes a number of S8 Ap2 hits equal to the number of models in that unit.

Relic does this randomly. At the start of controlling player's turn roll a d6, on a roll of 6, the Relic does its thing.

 Psienesis wrote:
Though giving the Sisters a 40k-version of a Warthog

You mean the A-10?

If GW made a 40k-ified A-10 and gave it to the Sisters, I'd buy the feth out of that. Espeiclaly if they were relatively faithful to the original A-10 design, because feth what the air force thinks, that is one sexy beast of a plane.

 Melissia wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Though giving the Sisters a 40k-version of a Warthog

You mean the A-10?

If GW made a 40k-ified A-10 and gave it to the Sisters, I'd buy the feth out of that. Espeiclaly if they were relatively faithful to the original A-10 design, because feth what the air force thinks, that is one sexy beast of a plane.

The Avenger isn't too far off, though it seems to be armed with a GAU-8 instead.

 Melissia wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Though giving the Sisters a 40k-version of a Warthog

You mean the A-10?

If GW made a 40k-ified A-10 and gave it to the Sisters, I'd buy the feth out of that. Espeiclaly if they were relatively faithful to the original A-10 design, because feth what the air force thinks, that is one sexy beast of a plane.

Ha, no, though that would be awesome, I also knew that this question would arise.

I don't mean the plane, I mean the truck:




Something like that, in black and gold, or red and black, or whatever other color the Order wants to use, fitted with gold aquilas, church organ pipes (or rocket launchers), fleur de lis, laud-hailers and a heavy bolter or a multi-melta.... or twin-linked heavy flamers, sure, knock yourself out.

 Psienesis wrote:

Spoiler:

Ew no. Way too small, light, and ugly for my tastes. Also handles like a flatulent cow.

I think it handles more like a puma, myself.

IMO, this is meant to fit a Fast Attack slot, so an agile, armored vehicle that can bring anti-infantry/light anti-vehicle weaponry to bear, possibly while also transporting a squad of 5, allows something like this to exist.

It's not a tank, it's not an APC, it's a vehicle designed to move quickly across the battlefield to provide support in the form of high volumes of automatic fire, anti-vehicle weaponry or torrents of fire raining on an advancing infantry unit. Use one of these to plug a hole in your defensive line until foot-troops can slog up there to take to the trenches. Use it to cut off a surprise attack from a flank. Use it to support your advancing infantry, helping to soften up (or remove entirely) enemy infantry and light vehicles.

So take this:



and replace the Grenade Launcher with a Bolter (Storm Bolter? Hurricane Bolter?) and add a Melta option.

And take this:



And go with Heavy Bolter, Mult-Melta and Heavy Flamer (all TL) and you're set.

For comparison to the Halo Warthog, this is FW's Tauros Venator:


Going by the description in Hammer & Anvil, the Sisters used a variant that lacked the turret and instead sported a passenger compartment for 4 Sisters in power armour.
Might be a good way to bring your Dominions to the front.

(though I actually prefer the 4-wheel version of the Tauros - it looks sleeker and more mobile .. but I suppose it lacks the carrying capacity)

PS: All this talk about relics also makes me miss Blessed Weapons even more.

[edit] Wow, looks like Zion just had the same idea, or nearly the same.

Uh, Zion? That's the heavy flamer variant of the Tauros. You just need to replace the crew with Sisters (which, owing to power armour, is a little less silly than flak-armoured Elysians with a flamer buggy... although at least the tauros heavy flamer pivots).

The Tauros Venator would have to be the chassis used for the hypothetical 'transport buggy' - after all, it's canon that removing a set of twin-linked lascannon power capacitors frees up enough space for 2.5 power armoured bodies.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Uh, Zion? That's the heavy flamer variant of the Tauros. You just need to replace the crew with Sisters (which, owing to power armour, is a little less silly than flak-armoured Elysians with a flamer buggy... although at least the tauros heavy flamer pivots).

The Tauros Venator would have to be the chassis used for the hypothetical 'transport buggy' - after all, it's canon that removing a set of twin-linked lascannon power capacitors frees up enough space for 2.5 power armoured bodies.

Fair enough. I don't play Elysians so that's my bad. So non-TL heavies on the Tauros and TL ones on the Venator.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lynata: You mean our "Relic Blades".

Seriously I liked the idea but Blessed Weapons need an additional "trick" to make them different than your bog standard Relic Blade.

Hmm... for a troop transport, it's a bit limited. 4 Sisters? Seems that you'd be better off with a Rhino, both in fluff and crunch. More bang for the buck.

The Venator still suggests "IG" too strongly to me. It needs more bodypanels for armor and Ecclesiarchal bling. Those side panels should angle downwards to cover at least the top half of the rear wheels, and bear golden aquilas or fleur de lis. Also needs some laud-hailers. And some incense-spewing Smoke Launchers. A cherub-servitor on the dash.

Turret also needs to be, like, a pulpit, or a command throne (like what Karamazov stomps around on). Needs to be semi-enclosed, with heavy bolter, storm bolter or twin-linked flamer or multi-melta, depending on the specific application for the vehicle (anti-infantry or anti-vehicle).

 Psienesis wrote:
Hmm... for a troop transport, it's a bit limited. 4 Sisters? Seems that you'd be better off with a Rhino, both in fluff and crunch. More bang for the buck.

The Venator still suggests "IG" too strongly to me. It needs more bodypanels for armor and Ecclesiarchal bling. Those side panels should angle downwards to cover at least the top half of the rear wheels, and bear golden aquilas or fleur de lis. Also needs some laud-hailers. And some incense-spewing Smoke Launchers. A cherub-servitor on the dash.

Turret also needs to be, like, a pulpit, or a command throne (like what Karamazov stomps around on). Needs to be semi-enclosed, with heavy bolter, storm bolter or twin-linked flamer or multi-melta, depending on the specific application for the vehicle (anti-infantry or anti-vehicle).

You forgot the loading servitors, the incense cherubs and all the purity seals, scrolls, scroll-work and and decorative paneling.

That goes without saying!

There shall also be a placard upon the rear bumper, reading (in High Gothic): "I Don't Brake for Heretics".... and a series of red tick-marks along the front left (or right, depending on where you put the driver's seat) representing heretics run over.

Psienesis wrote:Hmm... for a troop transport, it's a bit limited. 4 Sisters? Seems that you'd be better off with a Rhino, both in fluff and crunch. More bang for the buck.

Well, 5, if you count the driver - the scout car likely is a good deal faster, and its small size is another advantage.

Psienesis wrote:The Venator still suggests "IG" too strongly to me. It needs more bodypanels for armor and Ecclesiarchal bling. Those side panels should angle downwards to cover at least the top half of the rear wheels, and bear golden aquilas or fleur de lis. Also needs some laud-hailers. And some incense-spewing Smoke Launchers. A cherub-servitor on the dash.

I like a bit of IG. To me, the Sisters are smack in the middle between "practical" and "decorative". Just look at their body armour.

Personally, I wouldn't want them to become some sort of weird Space Circus that sports silly stuff everywhere just because they can - let's leave that to the rest of the Ecclesiarchy. Just like the Knights Templar of our actual history, Sisters are also soldiers, so a balance needs to be found. In case of the scout car, I'd have some religious scripture carved into the plating, and have it bear the sigil of the Sisterhood, done. It shouldn't have laud hailers because this vehicle, unlike an Immolator or a Rhino, isn't intended to slowly cruise through the landscape in a sort of cleansing procession - it's a fast transport meant to get troops quickly from A to B, preferrably unnoticed if it's a squad of flanking Dominions preparing a trap for the enemy. And why the Cherub?
Extending the side panels to cover the wheels is an excellent idea, though.

Also, just because I can - once more the Sororitas Valkyrie from DoW Soulstorm:


[edit] agreed about the blood marks, though

My thing with the Cherubs is actually because one of the members of my DH group finds them to be the most repulsive, creepy aspects of absolutely everything else in 40K.

Tyranids, Chaos, Dark Eldar... you name it, he shrugs it off, no big deal.

Mention Cherubs? He visibly shudders.

Now, as far as the bling goes... well, traditionally, all the Sisters vehicles have always been kind of (or extremely) blinged out, from the Exorcists to the Immolators to our gold-aquila'd and gold-fleur'd Rhinos, and I think having fully-functional but visually-impractical military hardware really grabs that Gothic-SciFi feel.

Especially in modern 40K, very few army units are really sticking with that baroque, gothic look and feel. SM are becoming mostly all round-shouldered, smooth-bodied PA, the IG is very modern-military looking and the Xenos don't count because they're Xenos and don't follow Imperial art direction. So, really, we're left with some models in CSM and Daemons, GK and the Sisters carrying the torch for the gothic aesthetics of 40K.

I had a crazy idea while painting some orks, probably not feasible, but might be cool:

Weapons of Faith; that is, weapons that function like force weapons, but with Faith points instead.

And I wouldn't mind a flyer in in our FA slot, either. Our HS slot is kinda full with two of our best units, so kinda hard to bring the Avenger.

 Lynata wrote:

Personally, I wouldn't want them to become some sort of weird Space Circus that sports silly stuff everywhere just because they can - let's leave that to the rest of the Ecclesiarchy. Just like the Knights Templar of our actual history, Sisters are also soldiers, so a balance needs to be found...

Yes, this. Exalted. The ironic thing is that, in the context of the rest of the Ecclesiarchy -- Confessors, Priests, Frateris -- the Sisters are actually the sober, rational ones.

I always thought the Sisters got short shrift with the 6e Deny the Witch. I used to be an effect particular tot eh SoB and is now shared by all comers. Plus the psykers can provide bonuses. Keeping in the same vein - +1 to DtW for Superiors, +2 for Canoness and ICs, +3 for Living Saints.

I like the idea of making the Hospitaler more flexible. Perhaps move the Hospitaler and Dialogus from command squad only to limited non-FOC characters (like the priests.)

Definitely bring back the frateris! Perhaps unlocked by taking a priest/confessor. Nothing like rousing the natives to root out the source of the problem and soften things up a bit.

Bring on the quads (Tauros) as a FA choice. 1-5 per squad. I can just envision a squad running across an enemy line, letting the promethium flow.

 SisterSydney wrote:

 Lynata wrote:

Personally, I wouldn't want them to become some sort of weird Space Circus that sports silly stuff everywhere just because they can - let's leave that to the rest of the Ecclesiarchy. Just like the Knights Templar of our actual history, Sisters are also soldiers, so a balance needs to be found...

Yes, this. Exalted. The ironic thing is that, in the context of the rest of the Ecclesiarchy -- Confessors, Priests, Frateris -- the Sisters are actually the sober, rational ones.

Well, as sober and rational as a nun in a power-armor corset with a pair of skulls and/or fleur de lis on her boobs is, toting a pistol that looks like a cross between a musket and a torch that shoots a mixture of a fission reaction and fire.

.... oh, and who might also perform intense combat actions in heels. I guess that is exceptionally hard-core, though, now that I think about it.

Yes, exactly. They're so out there even genetically engineered freak Space Marines wearing armor painted bright primary colors think they're a bit much, and they're still the calm and rational ones compared to the rest of the Ecclesiarchy.

Psienesis wrote:Tyranids, Chaos, Dark Eldar... you name it, he shrugs it off, no big deal.
Mention Cherubs? He visibly shudders.

I think I can relate.
People got jaded due to all the horror movies they've seen. Aliens, daemons and evil elves are "normal" now, but lobotomised cyborg babies? That's something else.

Psienesis wrote:Now, as far as the bling goes... well, traditionally, all the Sisters vehicles have always been kind of (or extremely) blinged out, from the Exorcists to the Immolators to our gold-aquila'd and gold-fleur'd Rhinos, and I think having fully-functional but visually-impractical military hardware really grabs that Gothic-SciFi feel.

Hm, I don't perceive them to be impractically blinged out. The Exorcist, okay - though that one is even described as a rolling shrine (which means it stands out as special even by its description). But everything else? Nah.

Psienesis wrote:Especially in modern 40K, very few army units are really sticking with that baroque, gothic look and feel. SM are becoming mostly all round-shouldered, smooth-bodied PA, the IG is very modern-military looking and the Xenos don't count because they're Xenos and don't follow Imperial art direction. So, really, we're left with some models in CSM and Daemons, GK and the Sisters carrying the torch for the gothic aesthetics of 40K.

Naaw, it's not that bad. There was a push to make Marines less smooth (see Ultramarines Greek helmets, or BT chains, or BA Sanguinary Guards), and don't forget regiments like the Vostroyans.

Hoitash wrote:Weapons of Faith; that is, weapons that function like force weapons, but with Faith points instead.

Mhm, but we already have an Act of Faith that increases melee combat prowess.

Psienesis wrote:toting a pistol that looks like a cross between a musket and a torch that shoots a mixture of a fission reaction and fire.
.... oh, and who might also perform intense combat actions in heels. I guess that is exceptionally hard-core, though, now that I think about it.

Aren't you confusing the SoB with an Inquisitor now?
The Canoness has neither heels, nor a musket gun. In fact, the SoB version of the Inferno Pistol looks rather plain:

I highly dislike any realism or useful vehicular transport.

Sisters armies should be all about screaming hordes of fanatics, nuns with big guns, hulking monstrosities with penitents strapped to them and a mobile fk-off cathedral fortress tank.

Eh, I dunno. I mean, sure, a lot of the Priests and such we see in the fluff is some serious fire-and-brimstone Pentecostal screamers and the like, but those characters stand out because they're exceptional... or, at least, unusual

Who wants to read about a priest or confessor that's faithful and firm, but doesn't get into screaming tirades and just goes about his job like a pro?

Just saying that I think the "calm and rational" aspects of the Sisters is very much comparative. I don't see them being "calm and rational" when confronted with heresy, blasphemy or other enemies of the God-Emperor. Then I think we see a whole lot of fury, fire, and righteous condemnation.

I think it also has to do with how they spend their non-combat hours. Even the Orders Militant are reclusive orders, they aren't expected to be preachers, rabble-rousers or orators in the same manner that Priests and Confessors are. So, sure, they spend a large amount of their time in prayer, meditation, fasting, corporal mortifaction and other rites and rituals of religious observance, so they're not screaming things from the pulpit or the street-corner... but I think their "calm and rational" reputation extends more from the fact that most people never see the more out-there (by our reckoning) stuff that they do.

Oh, no, I think it is also because the Sisters are living in a strictly ordered society where everything they do is regulated. Priests get to scream and yell a lot, so that's how they get used to their job.

Psienesis wrote:I don't see them being "calm and rational" when confronted with heresy, blasphemy or other enemies of the God-Emperor. Then I think we see a whole lot of fury, fire, and righteous condemnation.

But tempered by a professional military training and devotion to their officers. When the Canoness says "jump", you ask "how high, mistress?". Regardless of whether you're Seraphim or not.

 Psienesis wrote:
I don't see them being "calm and rational" when confronted with heresy, blasphemy or other enemies of the God-Emperor. Then I think we see a whole lot of fury, fire, and righteous condemnation.

Sure, but at the same time, they are also elite, professional soldiers too. Military drill is as much their daily life as prayer, after all.

This is an interesting issue with the Sisters, the balance of their righteous fury to their cool, ordered soldiering. Personally, I think it's a good mix of the two. To use your example, they would be furious if they came across some heretics, but they would also be covering each other, checking their surroundings and other tactical things like that. They are zealots, no doubt, but they're elite soldiers too. They don't just charge in recklessly, blinded by their fury.

That's what we have the Frateris Militia for.

(well, or the Repentias )

I find it a little odd you guys were talking about the aesthetic of the current sisters of battle. These days GW seems to go for an athletic look on their women which doesn't really emphasize boobs so much. In fact maybe it's odd but I find GW proportions to be more modest and than a lot of other gamer related material.

Also is it possible that the armor looking like it's being worn by excessively skinny girls be more a problem with the artist not thinking about that problem? I mean I think they were trying to make the armor look more feminine it's just they made it seem dumb in theory. Least it isn't a landraider being dropped out of the freaking sky. That's why i'm going more with "it's a mistake of the art team for not thinking things through" or possibly "they knew but making sisters look chunky didn't sit well with everybody". Chunky sisters would actually probably look more awkward than what we have now though.

As far as aesthetics goes this is one of many things I love about warhammer fantasy over 40k. For fantasy most models go from about average (dragon ogres) to fantastic (coven throne) whereas with 40k you go from awful (dreadknight) to fantastic (dark eldar in general).

So yeah I hope that sisters can remain feminine looking without becoming totally gender neutral when you look at them. Then again that nun on a motorcycle looked pretty cool so that might be nice on a model for sisters.

----------------

If we're talking models I don't really get a sniper vibe off sisters of battle. They seem more "In Your Face!" and crazy than sisters would normally be. Then again orks do have kommandos. I guess I could imagine a covert team though it'd be unlikely but sniper sisters would be hard to imagine for me.

I still think sisters could use another melee intensive unit or at least give repentia more melee weapons. I'm also unsure where the arco-flagellants fit here. Was that sisters or inquisition or a little of both? I mean I know they're more heretics but if we're throwing out ideas for zealot mobs then I think you'd count them too.

Meh I don't know enough about sisters. They have potential though for great looking models. A lot of factions do until they are ruined spectacularly by some design team.

flamingkillamajig wrote:I find it a little odd you guys were talking about the aesthetic of the current sisters of battle. These days GW seems to go for an athletic look on their women which doesn't really emphasize boobs so much. In fact maybe it's odd but I find GW proportions to be more modest and than a lot of other gamer related material.
Also is it possible that the armor looking like it's being worn by excessively skinny girls be more a problem with the artist not thinking about that problem? I mean I think they were trying to make the armor look more feminine it's just they made it seem dumb in theory.

Oh, I think we're all (well, the ones posting in this thread, anyways) okay with the "boob plate", if that's what you mean. We were just discussing at which level of "pragmatism vs bling" they would clock in, and I for one don't see them go all out on the latter.

As for the minis and the art, I'm actually 100% satisfied with their current looks. Really, the only thing that doesn't quite do them justice is the 2E Codex cover, and that's just because it was Blanche, who has a fairly "unique" art style regardless of whether he's drawing men or women. The breasts on some few of the minis such as the Canoness or the Repentia Mistress look a tad oversized and pointy, but I do believe this was deemed a necessary element to emphasise their femininity, and if these figures would be scaled up the breast size would drop in ratio - at least somewhat.

And as for their physical properties, I think artists like Andrea Uderzo did a splendid job at drawing them in a physically realistic manner.


(one of my fav SoB pics ever )

Agreed about the aesthetics, too, by the way. I feel the same way. It's nice to have a range, yet everything still seems to fit together!

flamingkillamajig wrote:I guess I could imagine a covert team though it'd be unlikely but sniper sisters would be hard to imagine for me.

Yeah, that's what you have Assassins for. Sisters are fairly straight-forward and aggressive - just not mindlessly so. Flanking Dominions are probably the most one could hope for in that department - a small squad of specialists capable of sneaking up on an enemy group or laying traps. Maybe Sister Martika was a Dominion? She seemed pretty skilled at infiltrating an Ork encampment. It's a cool story, go read it if you don't know it already!

flamingkillamajig wrote:I'm also unsure where the arco-flagellants fit here. Was that sisters or inquisition or a little of both?

Arco-Flagellants, like Penitent Engines, are an Ecclesiarchy thing. The Church occasionally lends them to the Sisters of Battle (as those are essentially their army) as well as the Inquisition, on a case-by-case basis. The old Inquisitor RPG website has some cool fluff about them, if you're interested:

"[...] Arco-flagellants are normally used by the Ecclesiarchy's fighting forces in suicide attack units. However, an Inquisitor can request (or demand if they are confident enough) that a Cardinal turn over an Arco-flagellant or two to their authority. As the Ministorum holds those Inquisitors who possess a more radical turn of mind in some suspicion, it is usually the more puritan and outwardly pious agents of the Inquisition who will be able to include them as part of their warrior band. [...]"
http://web.archive.org/web/20071024041945/http://es.games-workshop.com/especialista/inquisitor/bestiario/arcoflagellants.html

 Lynata wrote:

flamingkillamajig wrote:I find it a little odd you guys were talking about the aesthetic of the current sisters of battle. These days GW seems to go for an athletic look on their women which doesn't really emphasize boobs so much. In fact maybe it's odd but I find GW proportions to be more modest and than a lot of other gamer related material.
Also is it possible that the armor looking like it's being worn by excessively skinny girls be more a problem with the artist not thinking about that problem? I mean I think they were trying to make the armor look more feminine it's just they made it seem dumb in theory.

Oh, I think we're all (well, the ones posting in this thread, anyways) okay with the "boob plate", if that's what you mean. ..... The breasts on some few of the minis such as the Canoness or the Repentia Mistress look a tad oversized and pointy, but I do believe this was deemed a necessary element to emphasise their femininity, and if these figures would be scaled up the breast size would drop in ratio - at least somewhat.

[Headcanon]The "boob plate" is in fact purely decorative, like the rippling muscles on a Roman general's ceremonial breastplate, a deliberate exaggeration of the Sister's femininity so that outsiders can see at once "that's not a Marine, that's a Sister!" because the Sororitas really, really, really do not want to be mistaken for those steroidal freak Astartes. The Sister's actual breasts are safely strapped down in a kind of sarashi arrangement, they're not inside the bulges on the armor.
In fact, nothing is inside the bulges: They're hollow and designed to crumple on impact so they don't form a shot trap between the breasts. The actual power armor is perfectly flat: the boobplate is just another surface decoration, like the fleur-de-lis and skulls.[/headcanon]

Speaking of wishlisting I was inspired by out little back and forths of ideas to write a short article about homebrew:

http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/10/lets-talk-homebrew.html

PS:

 Lynata wrote:

flamingkillamajig wrote:I'm also unsure where the arco-flagellants fit here. Was that sisters or inquisition or a little of both?

Arco-Flagellants, like Penitent Engines, are an Ecclesiarchy thing. The Church occasionally lends them to the Sisters of Battle (as those are essentially their army) as well as the Inquisition, on a case-by-case basis. The old Inquisitor RPG website has some cool fluff about them, if you're interested:

"[...] Arco-flagellants are normally used by the Ecclesiarchy's fighting forces in suicide attack units. However, an Inquisitor can request (or demand if they are confident enough) that a Cardinal turn over an Arco-flagellant or two to their authority. As the Ministorum holds those Inquisitors who possess a more radical turn of mind in some suspicion, it is usually the more puritan and outwardly pious agents of the Inquisition who will be able to include them as part of their warrior band. [...]"
http://web.archive.org/web/20071024041945/http://es.games-workshop.com/especialista/inquisitor/bestiario/arcoflagellants.html

My attempt to rewrite Arco-Flagellants for 6th Edition as an actual squad, not just part of a Conclave/Warband, is here -- comments & critiques are more than welcome.

SisterSydney wrote:[Headcanon]The "boob plate" is in fact purely decorative, like the rippling muscles on a Roman general's ceremonial breastplate, a deliberate exaggeration of the Sister's femininity so that outsiders can see at once "that's not a Marine, that's a Sister!" because the Sororitas really, really, really do not want to be mistaken for those steroidal freak Astartes. The Sister's actual breasts are safely strapped down in a kind of sarashi arrangement, they're not inside the bulges on the armor.
In fact, nothing is inside the bulges: They're hollow and designed to crumple on impact so they don't form a shot trap between the breasts. The actual power armor is perfectly flat: the boobplate is just another surface decoration, like the fleur-de-lis and skulls.[/headcanon]

Heh, I guess I'm halfway where you are. Yes, I too see them as a deliberate exaggeration, and am considering that it might have been the idea of High Lord Vandire, who was responsible for transforming the backwater cult on San Leor into a superbly equipped bodyguard and enforcement detail. We can probably assume that he was a bit of a pervert as Codex fluff not only mentions that he had the Brides of the Emperor act as companions and had them "entertain him with singing, dancing, and other, more exotic, skills." Uh-oh.
So it's either that, or it was the Ecclesiarchy ordering this to be considered in the design because they wanted to make it clear that their little army isn't men under arms (Ministorum = trolls). Or perhaps it was a bit of both.

I don't think they specifically need to tie their breasts down, though, or that they even have a special piece of clothing for it. Powered armour is carried above a suit of electrically motivated fibres, and this suit alone would already limit the, uh, expansion of their bodies a bit.

Fremen suits may be a good comparison to exemplify what I mean, as they are of a similarly "piped/padded" construction (actually visible on the SoB minis too if you look closely on their legs):


I've never bought into the whole "bullet trap" theory, though. For several reasons:
- bolt shells are armour piercing, and thus react differently to sloped surfaces. plus, they will detonate anyways as soon as the microsecond fuse is triggered
- same goes for armour-piercing autogun rounds
- non-AP autogun ammo probably has little chance to punch through the ceramite
- las rounds do not ricochet .. in fact, a sloped surface will cause the beam to affect a larger area of the armour, thus dissipate more energy and cause less damage (boob armour actually has advantages!)
- but lastly ... look between the breasts of a Sister - that area isn't just empty, but rather occupied by the lower half of the respirator apparatus, and a fairly large/thick Ecclesiarchal icon
- bonus excuse: if all else fails, it could always be assumed that such weak spots are reinforced

It does make me wonder if the "breast bowls" might not indeed be used for something else, though, if a Sister's own body does not fill them, or at least not fill them to their entirety. Electronics, perhaps? Drug compartment for painkillers? Marine armour is so huge partially because all this stuff is stored in-between the armour plating and the undersuit ... maybe for the Sisters they preserve a smaller profile because their gadgets are localised in the breasts? Crazy-sounding theory, I know. But still ...

 Lynata wrote:

SisterSydney wrote:[Headcanon]The "boob plate" is in fact purely decorative, like the rippling muscles on a Roman general's ceremonial breastplate, a deliberate exaggeration of the Sister's femininity so that outsiders can see at once "that's not a Marine, that's a Sister!" because the Sororitas really, really, really do not want to be mistaken for those steroidal freak Astartes. The Sister's actual breasts are safely strapped down in a kind of sarashi arrangement, they're not inside the bulges on the armor.
In fact, nothing is inside the bulges: They're hollow and designed to crumple on impact so they don't form a shot trap between the breasts. The actual power armor is perfectly flat: the boobplate is just another surface decoration, like the fleur-de-lis and skulls.[/headcanon]

Heh, I guess I'm halfway where you are. Yes, I too see them as a deliberate exaggeration, and am considering that it might have been the idea of High Lord Vandire, who was responsible for transforming the backwater cult on San Leor into a superbly equipped bodyguard and enforcement detail. We can probably assume that he was a bit of a pervert as Codex fluff not only mentions that he had the Brides of the Emperor act as companions and had them "entertain him with singing, dancing, and other, more exotic, skills." Uh-oh.
So it's either that, or it was the Ecclesiarchy ordering this to be considered in the design because they wanted to make it clear that their little army isn't men under arms (Ministorum = trolls). Or perhaps it was a bit of both.

That's not so bad as what I heard GW did with beastmen back before it was completely family oriented. I heard the original beastmen origin story had beastmen being born from bestiality.

I love some of the bits of humor you see in the skaven stories and other stories sometimes. It'd be nice if more people enjoyed warhammer fantasy. I mean the empire has pidgeon bombs! Pidgeon bombs!!! Then you have like a special character that is half mad and insane that actually has a special result on a dice roll that gives enemies hatred towards just the character. Something about him insulting their looks and grooming habits. I love how eccentric some of the empire stuff is.



Skaven have a good couple bits of humor with them supposedly using information of empire leaders having 'affairs' with ones they shouldn't in order to de-stabilize the empire. Dude warhammer fantasy can be hilarious sometimes. You guys should seriously give some of the stuff a read.

---------------------

On the matter of the boob compartment some women supposedly but keepsakes in cleavage. Of course this is like a thing you hear about in old tv and such like keeping money safe under your mattress or keeping a picture in front of a safe. I don't think too many actually do some of this.

Many skirts do not have pockets.

A bra is, for some items, a suitable alternative if you do not wish, or are unable to carry a bag. Not so much keepsakes, necessarily, but mobile phones and the like...


I like the idea of them being storage compartments though. Nobody in 40k has sufficient storage on their models.

 Lynata wrote:
Yes, I too see them as a deliberate exaggeration, and am considering that it might have been the idea of High Lord Vandire, who was responsible for transforming the backwater cult on San Leor into a superbly equipped bodyguard and enforcement detail. We can probably assume that he was a bit of a pervert as Codex fluff not only mentions that he had the Brides of the Emperor act as companions and had them "entertain him with singing, dancing, and other, more exotic, skills." Uh-oh.
So it's either that, or it was the Ecclesiarchy ordering this to be considered in the design because they wanted to make it clear that their little army isn't men under arms (Ministorum = trolls). Or perhaps it was a bit of both.

Considering that the Sisterhood sends its Repentia into battle wearing, um, provocative garments -- even the models are a bit skimpy, let alone the artwork, which suggests they have managed to weaponize nudity-- I think it's clear that someone influential in the early days of the Adepta Sororitas had a strong appreciation for the power of the female form to distract and disconcert a male opponent.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I love some of the bits of humor you see in the skaven stories and other stories sometimes.....Skaven have a good couple bits of humor with them supposedly using information of empire leaders having 'affairs' with ones they shouldn't in order to de-stabilize the empire. Dude warhammer fantasy can be hilarious sometimes. You guys should seriously give some of the stuff a read.

I and others have been valiantly laboring to make 40K funnier in this thread: 1,001 Sisters of Battle jokes. Seriously, take a look.

SisterSydney wrote:Considering that the Sisterhood sends its Repentia into battle wearing, um, provocative garments -- even the models are a bit skimpy, let alone the artwork, which suggests they have managed to weaponize nudity-- I think it's clear that someone influential in the early days of the Adepta Sororitas had a strong appreciation for the power of the female form to distract and disconcert a male opponent.

You know, that reminds me of a story I read about how a single Sister wiped out an entire Dark Eldar raiding party. Girl got sainted for that.

Sounds fun. Source, Lyn?

I haven't been able to source it yet, so take it with a grain of salt - it may well be fanfiction.
That being said, it was included in the huge SoB fluff bible file that was passed around in the old yahoo group, and in the past couple years I managed to find studio sources for the majority of its contents and claims...

It was an interesting piece about a lone shrine at some village on an agri-world with just an aging Superior and a young Sister serving as guardians. Dark Eldar raiding party shows up, people panick, young Sister realises that next to no one (including the old Superior) is capable of mounting resistance, so she asks them to leave, then goes to take the relic from the shrine, and finally puts on one of the most revealing dresses from the village girls and waits for the DE to arrive.
Next scene is a scouting party of some Space Marines (I think it was White Scars, not sure) pursueing the Dark Eldar convoy and tracking it as it moves to the next town, relaying positions and preparing to attack. Suddenly they spot weapons fire on the middle vehicle, and a moment later the entire convoy vanishes in a glowing black orb.

Twist: the relic was a vortex grenade.

 SisterSydney wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Yes, I too see them as a deliberate exaggeration, and am considering that it might have been the idea of High Lord Vandire, who was responsible for transforming the backwater cult on San Leor into a superbly equipped bodyguard and enforcement detail. We can probably assume that he was a bit of a pervert as Codex fluff not only mentions that he had the Brides of the Emperor act as companions and had them "entertain him with singing, dancing, and other, more exotic, skills." Uh-oh.
So it's either that, or it was the Ecclesiarchy ordering this to be considered in the design because they wanted to make it clear that their little army isn't men under arms (Ministorum = trolls). Or perhaps it was a bit of both.

Considering that the Sisterhood sends its Repentia into battle wearing, um, provocative garments -- even the models are a bit skimpy, let alone the artwork, which suggests they have managed to weaponize nudity-- I think it's clear that someone influential in the early days of the Adepta Sororitas had a strong appreciation for the power of the female form to distract and disconcert a male opponent.

Uh... I like to think that the Sisters have something useful in those breastplates. Extra sensors/armor and such.

If we want to go with Tranzor-Z as an inspiration, they're a pair of missiles...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_A

... but I kid.

I think I'm with Furyo... the fusion reactor on her back doesn't have a lot of room for additional gear. Her actual assets are contained within the bodyglove/plugsuit she's wearing under the layers of ceramite.

....gotta carry spare mags for the boltgun *somewhere*.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though... back to the bikes and trucks thing...

I wonder if we could slot the trucks as a DT option and bikes as FA?

I'm just... really keen on the idea of Biker Nuns now. But I also like nuns driving a war-jeep with a twin-linked flamer or a stormbolter pintle-mounted in the back. The blast-shield the weapon should have is great opportunity for all sorts of painting fun.

And we need something that will be their super-heavy. The church-on-tracks is one such idea. Another is the super-huge relics that spit flaming death (and if one of them was a gold box carried by a dozen people... well... ) and fury on enemies. I dunno about an Ecclesiarchal Baneblade... I think that tank is overplayed.

My take on the boobplate is that it's a design choice. The ornate, corset-like armour fits nicely with the general aesthetic of the Sisters: over the top and gothic.

In-universe, I imagine that it was a similar thing: Vandire wanted eye-catching, ornate armour, so that's what he requisitioned. Or it was just to influence of the Ecclesiarchy/Imperium in general.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Considering that the Sisterhood sends its Repentia into battle wearing, um, provocative garments -- even the models are a bit skimpy, let alone the artwork, which suggests they have managed to weaponize nudity-- I think it's clear that someone influential in the early days of the Adepta Sororitas had a strong appreciation for the power of the female form to distract and disconcert a male opponent.

Heh, I don't think that the Sisters are into charming the heretics that they kill. The Repentia are dressed like that because it's a part of their penitence. They forgo armour of any kind and rush right at the enemy, in an effort to make up for their (percieved) sins. I don't think it has anything to do with showing off their figures at all.

Since we're on the topic of Repentia, I'll go ahead and wish for slightly more modest Repentia models while we're at it. Don't get me wrong, I really like their fluff (to the point that I'm going to paint some Valorous Heart Sisters at some stage), but them being so scantily clad can lead to people not taking them seriously, and it does feel just a little over the top/silly (I know, we're discussing the army that has weaponised pipe organs, but that's how I feel). Some ragged robes could work.

 Lynata wrote:
and had them "entertain him with singing, dancing, and other, more exotic, skills." Uh-oh.

Well, we could interpret "exotic skills" as juggling, or something like that.

I vote plate spinning, midget tossing and fire juggling!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or maybe they did puppet theater.

Anyone one else a Sister doing a 1 puppet show of the Vagina Monologues?

lol @ juggling and puppet shows

Jeez, sometimes I have a way too picturesque imagination.

Troike wrote:Don't get me wrong, I really like their fluff (to the point that I'm going to paint some Valorous Heart Sisters at some stage), but them being so scantily clad can lead to people not taking them seriously, and it does feel just a little over the top/silly (I know, we're discussing the army that has weaponised pipe organs, but that's how I feel). Some ragged robes could work.

More like Blanche's art for the pre-WH Repentia? Hah, the irony.

tbh, I think the current Repentia minis are still clothed too much, and thus look too normal.

Look at the girls in the lower middle and the lower right section of this image and tell me you wouldn't be scared, I dare ya.

I'd like to point out that Repentia really should have bare feet (or feet wrapped in rags) instead of what we have right now were they're wearing the same armored boots they wear in their power armor.

What part of "dressed in rags" did the sculptor not get?

ClockworkZion wrote:What part of "dressed in rags" did the sculptor not get?

I'm more willing to attribute this to GW's shift to becoming "family friendly". You know, the same kind of design decisions that got us ugly, clothed Daemonettes.

The duties of the Brides of the Emperor under Vandire (pun not intended) are also not mentioned anymore these days, and neither is the Schola's temporary use as a shopping mall for pedophiles.

Genocide, torture and murder are perfectly alright, but don't you dare have a naked breast somewhere!

 Lynata wrote:
Genocide, torture and murder are perfectly alright, but don't you dare have a naked breast somewhere!

That's terribly American of them, actually. And I say this is a proud (most of the time) American patriot. To excerpt an Onion article:

BETHEL PARK, PA—A routine Schaeffer family movie night took a sudden and deeply uncomfortable turn Thursday when the family of four was forced to white-knuckle its way through an unanticipated sex scene, household sources confirmed......

As the characters’ lovemaking grew increasingly urgent, the Schaeffers were reportedly buckling down and hanging on tight, steeling themselves with the knowledge that this was a PG-13 movie and that its adult content had to be—just had to be—over any second now.

The family was last seen letting out deep sighs of relief as the depiction of intimacy was interrupted by a barrage of gunfire and the film’s villains crashing through the bedroom window, mercifully returning the story to a scene of graphic violence.

 Lynata wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:What part of "dressed in rags" did the sculptor not get?

I'm more willing to attribute this to GW's shift to becoming "family friendly". You know, the same kind of design decisions that got us ugly, clothed Daemonettes.

The duties of the Brides of the Emperor under Vandire (pun not intended) are also not mentioned anymore these days, and neither is the Schola's temporary use as a shopping mall for pedophiles.

Genocide, torture and murder are perfectly alright, but don't you dare have a naked breast somewhere!

Repentia are older than the plastic Daemonettes.

And it's not like barefeet are THAT awful.

The knee armor thing bugs me too.

Also, they changed the Mistress that leads the Repentia squads to using her neural whips on the enemy. Rather, not a change, per se, but an added bit of text to cover up the fact that she's at the back of the squad and a lot of Repentia have fresh welts on their backs.

When I painted my Repentia I carefully glazed some of the wounds I painted to give them a fresh, bruised look. That took some work!

 SisterSydney wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Genocide, torture and murder are perfectly alright, but don't you dare have a naked breast somewhere!

That's terribly American of them, actually. And I say this is a proud (most of the time) American patriot. To excerpt an Onion article:

BETHEL PARK, PA—A routine Schaeffer family movie night took a sudden and deeply uncomfortable turn Thursday when the family of four was forced to white-knuckle its way through an unanticipated sex scene, household sources confirmed......

As the characters’ lovemaking grew increasingly urgent, the Schaeffers were reportedly buckling down and hanging on tight, steeling themselves with the knowledge that this was a PG-13 movie and that its adult content had to be—just had to be—over any second now.

The family was last seen letting out deep sighs of relief as the depiction of intimacy was interrupted by a barrage of gunfire and the film’s villains crashing through the bedroom window, mercifully returning the story to a scene of graphic violence.

I was honestly joking and throwing around the idea of a SWAT team (in the U.S. most likely) breaching in, killing all the poor pets with a bullet in each of their brains (including the 5 pound terrier, the cat, the parrot and the fish) and hazing the family with pepper spray, flash bang grenades, tear gas and tazors after they found out it wasn't real gun violence but the family watching a movie too loudly. Then they just threw some cocaine around the house and said they were making it. Then the father thinks to himself "A bunch of dudes bullying us? This is just like PE class in the showers all over again!".

------------

Back on topic or sort of. I find it would be funny if the sisters had like a cell phone on vibrate in one of their boob armor plates. It just starts vibrating. "Hold on my boob is vibrating. I gotta take this. *answers phone* Hello! *talks into boob*" Hehe.

------------

Ok so back to actual model ideas. We had the lobotomized cherub babies. I can see that. It'd disturb me but that's what 40k is about. Ugh I can't help but think about the stuff the blood angels already have with the sanguinary guard. It just seems to work with the feel of sisters of battle. I still say we go for the hallucinogenic grenades or some sort of flame grenades which avoid cover obviously. Then possible smoke grenades or incense from a floating altar to make a cloud that distorts the enemy's view when shooting ranged weapons at the sisters possibly. I imagine seeing sisters with a lot more chainswords for some reason. I still think repentia could use different weapon load-outs. I don't think that's asking for much. I still feel like we're missing an angelic squad. There are seraphim sure but they don't look angelic enough yet or at least for my tastes. Possibly give the sisters a fiery comet type of call-down from orbit similar enough to orbital bombardment. Possibly a fiery brimstone rain sort of ability that ruins enemy leadership.

God you know what'd be overly stupid? Rocket powered fists! I don't think sisters should get that but it's an idea worth thinking about for other factions maybe.

------------

Yeah I guess America loves violence over nudity.

To be fair to GW I think I saw a visible boob on the new medusa-looking model on the blood wrack shrine or whatever that new dark elf unit was. It was the multi-part kit for the cauldron of blood with the blood wrack shrine as an alternate model.

If you think imagined violence is worse than real nudity then there's something special over on youtube. The thing on youtube is about a Norwegian dude that goes around asking women for their phone numbers while completely naked and also getting aroused. I don't think I should talk about it more here but I still can't stop laughing over it. He gets in trouble with the police at the end. Just remember there are extremes of both. I can imagine it though, "Hey watch where you point that Thing! You're gonna poke somebody's eye out!"

Hah! Gotta love the Onion.

Psienesis wrote:Also, they changed the Mistress that leads the Repentia squads to using her neural whips on the enemy.

And the name from "Repentia Mistress" to "Mistress of Repentance".

flamingkillamajig wrote:I still say we go for the hallucinogenic grenades or some sort of flame grenades which avoid cover obviously.

Thuribles and Phosphor Grenades. This one I endorse.

flamingkillamajig wrote:Back on topic or sort of. I find it would be funny if the sisters had like a cell phone on vibrate in one of their boob armor plates. It just starts vibrating. "Hold on my boob is vibrating. I gotta take this. *answers phone* Hello! *talks into boob*" Hehe.

Oh gods what have you done.

Lol I didn't even think of the boobs as a phone themselves like a land-line phone. That's actually funnier than my idea.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Lol I didn't even think of the boobs as a phone themselves like a land-line phone. That's actually funnier than my idea.

Yes, but your idea is funny because it's true. :p

There's a vox-caster built into her armor. Where do you think the handset is?

 Psienesis wrote:
There's a vox-caster built into her armor. Where do you think the handset is?

Must make it awkward when someone needs to borrow her vox....

It's probably going to be another Sister so, you know, not really a big deal.

But, eh, I'm just kidding around. Really, my true "wishlist" for Sisters-related stuff is for a series of novels. The James Swallow series wasn't bad, but I want, like, an epic twelve-volume set or something. I want to follow someone, or someones, from life in the Imperium to the Schola Progenium to the Convent to the Orders, Militant and Non, to Canoness to maybe even beatification. I want to see the entire life of a Sister or a group of Sisters, and all the details of the Ecclesiarchy, the Schola, the Convents, Novitiates, Initiates, taking oaths on Terra, the whole nine yards.

Unfortunately, I don't want any of the current BL authors writing it. While I like bits and pieces of most of them, all of them have various aspects to their style or their personal canon that I just don't get into. Not really sure who I would want to have write it, though, since most of my favorite authors are dead, but... a definitive, nitty-gritty, down-to-fine-details series from BL for the Sisters and the Ecclesiarchy, in much the same way that Abnett has provided as much for the Inquisition in the Ravenor and Eisenhorn series, or the Guard in the Gaunt series, would be tops on my wishlist.

 Psienesis wrote:
It's probably going to be another Sister so, you know, not really a big deal.

Yeah, but that one time the Inquisitor yells into her boobs for an orbital strike is going to be really awkward.

Awkward.... or epic?

 Psienesis wrote:
Awkward.... or epic?

I don't know. I never thought a story in 40k could end with "and that's how my breasts stopped the invasion of Terra."

 Lynata wrote:
More like Blanche's art for the pre-WH Repentia? Hah, the irony.

tbh, I think the current Repentia minis are still clothed too much, and thus look too normal.

Look at the girls in the lower middle and the lower right section of this image and tell me you wouldn't be scared, I dare ya.

I understand where you're coming from. Yeah, I know that they really should look crazy and over the top, I guess I'm just slighly worried about people getting certain impressions of them based on those models, But then, maybe that's not something we should really care about anyway.

 Lynata wrote:
but don't you dare have a naked breast somewhere!

One of the new Dark Elf models had a bare breast, so obviously they're still allowed to do it.

Hrm, I think, with the right author and the right character-archetypes, it could be a bit of both.

I'm pretty sure, given their lifestyles as recluses and penitents, that the Sisters don't view themselves as sexual beings. An Inquisitor, especially of certain Puritan factions, might not either. A hetero female Inquisitor of any faction doesn't either, at least, probably not in the sense that such a scene would be terribly awkward for either... strange, perhaps, as in the Inquisitor saying something like, "If you told me this morning when I woke up that I'd be speaking into a ceramite brassiere this evening, I'd have called you mad..."

... but not going much beyond that point.

 Troike wrote:
Look at the girls in the lower middle and the lower right section of this image and tell me you wouldn't be scared, I dare ya.

I dunno. They are kinda cute.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Look at the girls in the lower middle and the lower right section of this image and tell me you wouldn't be scared, I dare ya.

I dunno. They are kinda cute.

I wonder if that is what they would put on your tombstone?

"Here lies Happyjew, he told some Sisters Repentia that they were 'kinda cute'."

 Psienesis wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Look at the girls in the lower middle and the lower right section of this image and tell me you wouldn't be scared, I dare ya.

I dunno. They are kinda cute.

I wonder if that is what they would put on your tombstone?

"Here lies Happyjew, he told some Sisters Repentia that they were 'kinda cute'."

Famous last words?

Talk about a burn...

I....

Well, no, with your username, I'm not going to make any jokes or quips involving fire or burning.

 Psienesis wrote:
I....

Well, no, with your username, I'm not going to make any jokes or quips involving fire or burning.

I wouldn't be offended, but others might. So it's probably a good idea...

ClockworkZion wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Awkward.... or epic?

I don't know. I never thought a story in 40k could end with "and that's how my breasts stopped the invasion of Terra."

Troike wrote:I understand where you're coming from. Yeah, I know that they really should look crazy and over the top, I guess I'm just slighly worried about people getting certain impressions of them based on those models, But then, maybe that's not something we should really care about anyway.

It's not something we can do anything about, anyways, apart from repeating the usual explanations and hoping they're not just immature trolls.
The SoB miniature line, or the art style in general, certainly offers potential for cheap jokes or sexist remarks, but only for small, juvenile minds who are unable to cope with what "space opera" and 40k are all about.

Honestly. Next thing we know someone complains about all the skulls.

Troike wrote:One of the new Dark Elf models had a bare breast, so obviously they're still allowed to do it.

Dammit GW, every time I think I figured you out, something like this happens.

Wait ... at least that's one constant right there.

It's not something we can do anything about, anyways, apart from repeating the usual explanations and hoping they're not just immature trolls.
The SoB miniature line, or the art style in general, certainly offers potential for cheap jokes or sexist remarks, but only for small, juvenile minds who are unable to cope with what "space opera" and 40k are all about.

Honestly. Next thing we know someone complains about all the skulls.

Yeah...

Given that there's the obvious Catholic influence on the Sisterhood, the background of their origins being a Catholic School From Hell, and that their armor consists of a corset and thigh-high boots (visually)...

... well, there's an entire RL sexual fetish centered on these very things, so I think that's always going to inform certain interpretations.

 Lynata wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Awkward.... or epic?

I don't know. I never thought a story in 40k could end with "and that's how my breasts stopped the invasion of Terra."

Troike wrote:I understand where you're coming from. Yeah, I know that they really should look crazy and over the top, I guess I'm just slighly worried about people getting certain impressions of them based on those models, But then, maybe that's not something we should really care about anyway.

It's not something we can do anything about, anyways, apart from repeating the usual explanations and hoping they're not just immature trolls.
The SoB miniature line, or the art style in general, certainly offers potential for cheap jokes or sexist remarks, but only for small, juvenile minds who are unable to cope with what "space opera" and 40k are all about.

Honestly. Next thing we know someone complains about all the skulls.

Well I am immature so I dunno. I enjoyed 40k till they over-loaded the grimdark-mobile and dumped it all over the universe. Well that and the space marines (and everybody plays them whereas in fantasy it's always a new faction with different flavor) and the fact it's like most humor comes to die in 40k and it doesn't matter what you do in 40k even if you're some master general that masterminded a thousand battles and won 100 worlds. I know i'm throwing it out there too much but at least in fantasy it's one world and multiple empires have gotten close to falling multiple times and they were all popular and powerful. The empire alone has almost fallen at least 3 or more times. Also I feel like even though each battle can take place over a longer period of time you can still have a bigger effect on things. You can help take a province of the empire in a big campaign probably or at least a major city. It's not huge but it's a lot bigger of a deal to all the other factions I bet.

As far as skulls go I do find it humorous how overboard it is. I just feel like the cod-piece skull is not needed. It's just awkward because you're technically skull-f*cking the cod-piece .

One constant of GW is the inflating prices. I think that's something we know won't change. Sometimes i'm scared to want new models. Some of the new dark elf models are 10 models for 50 USD. This is getting insane.

-------------

God I keep side-tracking things.

Umm jeez I dunno more special characters? I still think there should be martyrdom. Possibly more holy and blessed artifacts? Possibly a sort of psychic barrier for sisters just like the 'shadow in the warp' for tyranids.

Ugh! I dunno I've kind of run dry with ideas for sisters at this point. Maybe I should focus on a different topic in another thread? I am de-railing things quite a bit now.

If fantasy is more humorous, why try to change 40k to be like that? Maybe some people like a darker setting. Leave one lighter and one darker. If you get tired of one, go to the other but don't try to change it. I prefer the darker aspect of 40k, its the reason I fell in love with the universe in the first place. Every story needs humor, true. That's why we have the Orks. They're the comic relief. Making SM or SOB funny I just find annoying at best.

I endorse the attack buggy idea. Put a mounted TL heavy bolter on that thing and call it good. I also like the super tank/APC church idea. A large robot Sister, though really cool, would just be called "Mega Maid" and would never taken seriously.

And I want a storm shield for my cannoness, for you know, when they get around to making a plastic figure of her, because they will. Sure.

Heh. Top of my wishlist?

A contract to write the Age of Apostasy trilogy.

flamingkillamajig wrote:Well I am immature so I dunno.

We're all immature somewhere and there's nothing wrong with it (my office desk is guarded by a rather expensive array of figurines of Motoko Kusanagi, Canaan, Ahsoka Tano, Femshep and Liara!), but I think there's a line that does not need to be crossed in terms of class and standards when discussing settings and stories on a public forum.

And I think it's perfectly possible to be a bit humorous without actually losing the grimdark. Just take a look at the Kal Jerico or Redeemer comics! The important thing is that the creators of those comics managed to tell cool stories without feeling a need to force notable changes on the setting in order to push their vision, as certain other novel authors did. The Imperium of Man is a big place, and there's certainly sufficient places where the grimdark meets the crazy without looking out of place. That's what I like most about the setting as described by GW. That it can manage to look odd and (on occasion) silly without looking contradictory.


(how's that for a militia truck? )

Okay, here's one more:

This comic series is so over the top it is rather amazing.

"If it doesn't hurt it doesn't count!"
- The Redeemer's catchphrase

flamingkillamajig wrote:Possibly more holy and blessed artifacts? Possibly a sort of psychic barrier for sisters just like the 'shadow in the warp' for tyranids.

Well, the anti-psychic barrier was the old Shield of Faith. I still want it back. Or, well, at least give us Adamantium Will.

"The Adepta Sororitas represent the epitome of faith and purity - witchcraft, heresy and mutation are anathema to them. Force weapons lose their ability to kill their target outright, simply count them as power weapons. Psychic powers targeted against any unit or character with the Adepta Sororitas special rule, or including them in its area of effect, are nullified and will not work on a d6 roll of 5+.
Minor psychic powers have no effect on Adepta Sororitas units or characters at all, even those used by friendly psykers that would have a beneficial effect on them."
- 3E C:WH, Shield of Faith

I was pondering about the idea of "random relics" where you roll a d6 before the game and get an item from a list, but then considered it might suck if you wish to base your Order around one such relic. And then there's the matter of WYSIWYG... We would have a cool selection of relics, though. The Blade of Admonition, the Flail of Chastisement, the Axe of Retribution, the Sword of St. Joachim, the Figurine of Divine Justice, or ... ->

MWHistorian wrote:And I want a storm shield for my cannoness

Two words:

Praesidium Protectiva

Furyou Miko wrote:A contract to write the Age of Apostasy trilogy.

Ooh. That could be interesting. Lots of potential left to explore in that era.



[edit]Okay, two more pages from the Redeemer.

dat song!


Oh wow.

Exalted. So hard. Especially the truck full of flaming crazies.

I have proposed rules for that truck and a slightly less competent version of the Frateris in this thread -- I'd love you to take a look.

And if anyone knows where to find the Redemptionist rules from Chapter Approved, please tell me where to find them so I can update them for 6th and for my own perverse vision of the army.

 Lynata wrote:
Praesidium Protectiva

You mean our 4++ that only worked in close combat and prevented us from gaining extra attacks for having a second CCW (like the old Storm Shield)?

Yeah...I see it coming back and saying "Follows all rules for a Storm Shield" much like the Eviscerator points people towards Chainfists.

</grumble>

I think sister repentias would be better with fleet and feel no pain than a vehicle, Think that'll fit the aesthetic a little bit better.

Also a Rosarius should be cheaper dang it! It's less effective than a Stormshield, and those only run 15 points. That's TEN POINTS less than what we have to pay for a 4++!

Yes I'm a little annoyed by that.

Well that and the Accounting Homework I'm doing. FECK I do not want to do this for a living. T_T


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WingEnvy wrote:
I think sister repentias would be better with fleet and feel no pain than a vehicle, Think that'll fit the aesthetic a little bit better.

They already have Fleet and Feel No Pain, they lack a delivery method to get them and their no-armor-save, 6++ Invul save selves to the enemy effectively.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I propose a Droppod they can assault out of when it hits, but they all have to take a dangerous terrain test, and on a 1 the Repentia dies (Mistress gets her normal save because she's in power armor and used to making the drops).

I'll take a look at the other thread.

SisterSydney wrote:And if anyone knows where to find the Redemptionist rules from Chapter Approved, please tell me where to find them so I can update them for 6th and for my own perverse vision of the army.

You may or may not have a PM!

Also, since a lot of people here really seem to like bikes - I present: Cardinal Crimson of the Red Redemption

ClockworkZion wrote:They already have Fleet and Feel No Pain, they lack a delivery method to get them and their no-armor-save, 6++ Invul save selves to the enemy effectively.

I vote for a wall of cheap Frateris Militia bodies.

As efficient as it may be ... providing a transport to protect the kamikaze squad from being martyred just feels a bit odd for me, given their background.

I wonder if the Rosarius was included in the points tweak they mentioned for the upcoming 6E Digidex...?

I think instead of Frateris Militia, making it a generalized unit representing devote Imperial Cult followers with the ability to upgrade to a variety of sub-cults or orders or groups like redeemers or Frateris militia or some of the other interesting groups that have been invented.

 Lynata wrote:
Femshep and Liara!

Oh? Can you PM me some screenshots? Haven't paid any attention to Mass Effect based minis.

Paragon Shepard (whom I consider defaulting to female because Jennifer Hale utterly owned the role) and LIara were by far my favorite characters.

aka_mythos wrote:I think instead of Frateris Militia, making it a generalized unit representing devote Imperial Cult followers with the ability to upgrade to a variety of sub-cults or orders or groups like redeemers or Frateris militia or some of the other interesting groups that have been invented.

Well, Frateris Militia is the catchall-term for any of them. I do like the idea of sub-cult upgrades, though!

Melissia wrote:Oh? Can you PM me some screenshots? Haven't paid any attention to Mass Effect based minis.

Sent!

And +1 for Jennifer Hale's powerful voice acting

I'm not sure, with the rather generalized way the tablet-top rules work in most cases, that there's enough difference between a sub-cult and the Frateris Militia that could be represented on the table without it becoming a horrid mess of near-identical mobs of models but each mob having a different SR.

Fluff-wise, I like the idea, I'm just not sure there's a practical way to represent it on the table.

Jennifer Hale, incidentally, does a lot of voice work in the Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO. She is as cool there as she was in Mass Effect.

Look at the rule distinction between chaos cults... Obviously imperial cultists wouldn't be the same, but it shows how much diversity you could have amongst a fodder unit.

Hmm.

Redemptionists reroll with flamers.

Worker Rabble get a one-use-only lascutter attack?

Well, there could certainly be ways to make them more different. The gangs of Necromunda might serve as inspiration, maybe. It could be differences in points cost, or limits on certain types of weapons. One cult might like flamers a lot, so they get a discount on them but suffer elsewhere, etc. Perhaps the SM Chapter traits or the CSM Marks could provide further inspiration for special rules?

On the other hand I guess I agree that they shouldn't become too different from one another, and that it is easier/more elegant to display the differences that do exist via unique squads rather than upgrades. But that would only serve to needlessly clutter up the army list.

Maybe the CA version was already the best of both worlds. It gave you the option to field a huge mob of rabble, with the option to upgrade some of them to members of at least one popular sect.

Hale also voiced Ayyla Secura in the Clone Wars CGI series. Splendid performance.
I know she speaks the female Trooper in TOR, but I admit: since they opted to make her sound very much alike Shepard (which I would've found confusing) my Trooper character was actually a male.

If they limited you to one mob, and then allowed you to choose what kind of mob it was, with whatever SRs apply to that type of mob, I think that'd be fine.

The problem I see is having what, ostensibly, is going to be masses of 20-50 models on the table (each), all looking *pretty much* the same.... but this mob over here is packed with flamers while this mob over here has las-cutters... and that mob over there is all CCW... I think it would just get bogged down with paperwork and confusion on the part of the other player ("Wait... which mob is this again?").

 Psienesis wrote:
If they limited you to one mob, and then allowed you to choose what kind of mob it was, with whatever SRs apply to that type of mob, I think that'd be fine.

The problem I see is having what, ostensibly, is going to be masses of 20-50 models on the table (each), all looking *pretty much* the same.... but this mob over here is packed with flamers while this mob over here has las-cutters... and that mob over there is all CCW... I think it would just get bogged down with paperwork and confusion on the part of the other player ("Wait... which mob is this again?").

This is why paints come in different colors and we have WYSIWYG for weapons.

Plus it's really easy to sculpt fire for the flamers, that always adds a little to them.

When you've got a mob of 50 and only 5 of them are allowed to take flamers (or plasma cannons or whatever), I think they tend to get lost in the mix. Especially from a distance of three or four feet away.

And, given that this is a hypothetical situation, we would probably end up having to create five or six different kinds of mobs from one single range of miniatures, which is going to be "fun" buying them in boxes of 10. (Ah, who am I kidding? This is the SOB Army. They'll come in boxes of 5 with a minimum unit size of 23.)

Would zealot mobs really be so challenging to implement? Just make them similar to Chaos cultists and give them their own unique quirks. Easy enough.

And this sort of unit lends itself massively to conversions anyway. They're disorganized rabble, you can really get creative with them. You could easily get yourself a diverse looking unit.

i just noticed on the games workshop site, the sisters of battle tab has been renamed adepta sororita. i wonder if that means anything, or has it always been that way and i am remembering it wrong

It was called Sisters of Battle previously. They're preparing to release the digital download updated Codex, which is the WD Codex with some updates and a Warlord Traits table.

 Lynata wrote:
Also, since a lot of people here really seem to like bikes - I present: Cardinal Crimson of the Red Redemption

Right now I imagine several things spawning from this comic strip.

Beltane comes to a stop in the middle of nowhere and just sits there.

Beltane is alternatively set on fire by the driver and then launched side-car seat and all into the baddies.

Finally my favorite they're driving around in a downward spiral and Beltane comes around from the other side. "Brother Beltane! Quickly, intercept them!" 'Yes, your eminence!' *Beltane crashes into them* "Brother your sacrifice is not in vain." 'But i'm still alive your eminence!' "Oh I see."

--------------

Anyway that comic is hilarious. What's it all from? I'm sorry I know so little of these comics and black library books. Usually I tend to only care about the factions I choose and I hardly have enough money even for them.

Perhaps I should start writing some humorous stuff for comics? Sadly my humor mostly works off of things so I can't really come up with events themselves too easily without being inspired by what i'm currently seeing. Would anybody possibly like to do the artwork for me? I suppose though that's lazy to ask but I am lazy .

--------------

As far as unit and model ideas I still think a rocket powered fist is a good idea for something in 40k. Orks maybe?

So far our ideas have the lobotomized babies, new seraphim possibly, more angelic units, more wargear for the leaders, plenty of buffers, probably some hexes for enemy psykers, sisters on bikes, more melee intensive units or repentia with more wargear options.

I also mentioned the fiery brimstone comet thing that's like an orbital bombardment.

So what else is left. Suicide bombing sisters (it goes well with 'martyrdom')? Call them 'Suicide Sisters'. They sound like a heavy metal band of sisters of battle.

 Troike wrote:
Would zealot mons really be so challenging to implement? Just make them similar to Chaos cultists and give them their own unique quirks. Easy enough.

And this sort of unit lends itself massively to conversions anyway. They're disorganized rabble, you can really get creative with them. You could easily get yourself a diverse looking unit.

I dunno. Maybe?

I mean, fluff-wise, I like the idea. Table-top-wise, though... I dunno. Would depend on how effective as a horde they are, I guess, rules and playability-wise. If they ended up being a functional horde-style army in their own right, I think I would worry that the Sisters of Battle themselves become incidental to bringing hordes of these guys to the game. Would really depend, I think, on what SRs they get, min and max unit sizes, and whether or not you can feature more than 1 horde of Militia in the army at all.

I'd prefer the codex to focus on Sisters as professional Soldiers of God(-Emperor of Mankind), professionally competent Paladins as it were, with Ecclesiarchal units to be a side-show that gives more options to players who want to add a bit of that mob-of-fanatics feel.

Yeah, that is where I'm at. I'd prefer the book focus on making the Sisters a badass stand-alone army that, sure, can benefit from taking other Imperial armies as allies, or even horde-type Militia units... but doesn't *need* to in order to remain viable.

Sure, they might have some crazy pipe-organ tanks, flame-shooting flyers and bikes with aquila-studded tires and a side-car for a Novitiate with a Melta... but I'd really just want to see the Sisters allowed to be Sisters and as good-or-better than any C:SM army without allies or add-on gimmicks.

 Melissia wrote:
I'd prefer the codex to focus on Sisters as professional Soldiers of God(-Emperor of Mankind), professionally competent Paladins as it were, with Ecclesiarchal units to be a side-show that gives more options to players who want to add a bit of that mob-of-fanatics feel.

Yep. Both their faith and status as elite soldiers should be emphasised. This isn't even that hard to do, really. It's just a matter of having the regular Sisters not being blinded by their zeal into incompetence. So nobody charging into any Tyranid swarms by themselves and getting themselves killed, or anything like that. (I really should lay off of Mitchell. )

Though Repentia are an excellent way for people to explore that route, if they choose. As would a zealot mob, if they're added.

Or, even better, Repentia leading zealot mobs!

Sounds legit to me.

They'd totally do that.

Who better to inspire fanatic zeal than those whom have given themselves over to fanatic zeal completely and utterly-- to the point of apparently being blessed by the Emperor with luck and prowess?

 Psienesis wrote:

Jennifer Hale, incidentally, does a lot of voice work in the Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO. She is as cool there as she was in Mass Effect.

And Bastilla from Knights of the Old Republic.

She's pretty much been in everything. I'm a bit of a fan.

Yeah, she's quite the prolific voice actress, though I'm lead to believe that it's actually a fairly small industry... almost how you only see the same two dozen Hollywood actors in any and all movies produced within a given ten-year stretch.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Or, even better, Repentia leading zealot mobs!

Now that's an idea. Going off to write rules now....

Hmm...

While I like the imagery of that, Im not sure it's exactly... fitting... for the Repentia. After all, I could see that leading armies of the faithful into righteous battle with His enemies would be something of an honor for a Sister selected to do so... and the Repentia are Repentia because it's a punishment, whether self-inflicted or otherwise.

Not sure they would permit themselves, or be permitted, that kind of "honor".

I dunno about mixing Repentias and zealots. On the tabletop, I see them doing fairly different jobs. Zealots would be your distraction/meatshields, Repentias are your hard hitters. Also seems like it'd make Repentias seem less unique, and they are supposed to be outcasts, after all.

 Psienesis wrote:
Hmm...

While I like the imagery of that, Im not sure it's exactly... fitting... for the Repentia. After all, I could see that leading armies of the faithful into righteous battle with His enemies would be something of an honor for a Sister selected to do so... and the Repentia are Repentia because it's a punishment, whether self-inflicted or otherwise.

Not sure they would permit themselves, or be permitted, that kind of "honor".

I dunno. The Sisters are highly trained professionals who've spent their entire lives at arms and at prayer. Being assigned to work with "those fething Frateris amateurs" might be considered punishment detail, in some ways worse than being in a Repentia squad because you're not around other Sisters anymore; even a fallen Sister is worth more than a bunch of holy warrior wannabes who were sinners and civilians just a few weeks ago.

PS: Some of those Frateris putzes keep trying to spy on you changing in and out of your armor. Fething hypocritical dicks.

Leading militias sounds like like a job for an experienced Sister Superior - that's how the Sororitas did it on Armageddon, anyways. Repentia are quite likely too focused on finding redemption than actually leading. Unless your definition of "leading" is "charging ahead without caring for what happens behind her".

flamingkillamajig wrote:Finally my favorite they're driving around in a downward spiral and Beltane comes around from the other side. "Brother Beltane! Quickly, intercept them!" 'Yes, your eminence!' *Beltane crashes into them* "Brother your sacrifice is not in vain." 'But i'm still alive your eminence!' "Oh I see."

flamingkillamajig wrote:Anyway that comic is hilarious. What's it all from?

"The Redeemer" and "Kal Jerico". Both different comic series, but they both play in Necromunda. One focuses on the whacky leader of the Red Redemption, the other is about a sly bounty hunter and his idiot sidekick. Another fun one you might enjoy is "Deff Skwadron" which is about an Ork Fighta-Bomma squadron.

I honestly think the 40k comics are better than the novels. They tend to be less over-exaggerated (which personally I think gets boring fast) and instead feel as if they manage better to convey the thematic elements that make the setting feel so unique. Plus they are way more diverse than the novels which are 90% Space Marines. The silly ones above are more of an exception, though; generally the comics focus on adventure just like the novels do, just in a different way.

The comics really are excellent. I usually avoid Space Wolf novels (and, having recently given in and read Blood of Asaheim because of the many... glowing... reviews of its treatment of Sisters, I now remember why. Ugh.), but Lone Wolves completely breaks the mould and tells a story perfectly balanced between the Valhallan Guardsmen and the Space Wolves... the only egrarious part being the interstellar-capable Thunderhawk, heh.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I usually avoid Space Wolf novels (and, having recently given in and read Blood of Asaheim because of the many... glowing... reviews of its treatment of Sisters, I now remember why. Ugh.)

Oh? I was told that the Sisters got an allright portrayal in that. Were they portrayed badly?

The rumors are warming up.

www.facebook.com/GamesWorkshopDigitalEditions

 SisterSydney wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Hmm...

While I like the imagery of that, Im not sure it's exactly... fitting... for the Repentia. After all, I could see that leading armies of the faithful into righteous battle with His enemies would be something of an honor for a Sister selected to do so... and the Repentia are Repentia because it's a punishment, whether self-inflicted or otherwise.

Not sure they would permit themselves, or be permitted, that kind of "honor".

I dunno. The Sisters are highly trained professionals who've spent their entire lives at arms and at prayer. Being assigned to work with "those fething Frateris amateurs" might be considered punishment detail, in some ways worse than being in a Repentia squad because you're not around other Sisters anymore; even a fallen Sister is worth more than a bunch of holy warrior wannabes who were sinners and civilians just a few weeks ago.

PS: Some of those Frateris putzes keep trying to spy on you changing in and out of your armor. Fething hypocritical dicks.

Yeah, but the Repentia don't wear armor. Per their fluff, and the artwork, they might actually not wear anything at all, though the age-range of the game prevents that from being depicted in the model line. Some might just be wearing some prayer-scroll pasties and a sacred sacrament merkin. The Repentia really don't seem to be into the whole modesty thing.... and really, really, really want to die in glorious battle.

I know, I just prefer my Repentia with a little more clothing, dignity, and tactics -- more like what the current models and current rules portray with the change to Rage.

I have to say I like the idea of a fallen Palatine or other senior officer being deemed too great a failure to put in a regular Repentia squad and sent to lead the Frateris rabble. (In game terms either as an IC or a unit upgrade, I'm not sure which).

Yeah, I don't think the Repentia are just going to throw their lives away (otherwise there would probably be some Sacrament of Assisted Suicide or something), but I also don't think they look at a battle-plan and discard it because casualties (of their own) will be too high. They don't expect to, and are hoping not to, survive their engagement, and instead are looking to take as many heretics out with them.

TBH, I think I would rather see the various Ecclesiarchal figures (the Confessor, say) being the IC of choice to lead a Frateris Rabble. They form around the Battle-Sisters, they being the solid core of the army, and follow them into battle, but are actually being "lead" by some Preacher, Confessor or other Ecclesiarchal figure.

 Melissia wrote:
Sounds legit to me.

They'd totally do that.

Who better to inspire fanatic zeal than those whom have given themselves over to fanatic zeal completely and utterly-- to the point of apparently being blessed by the Emperor with luck and prowess?

How about a Sister's version of the Mobbing Up rule? Frateris Militia can/must pass a Leadership test when within 6" of Repentia and if the test is passed/failed (depends on your perspective there I suppose) the Frateris join the Repentia in a wave of righteous frenzy. You could even use the ork fearless mechanic given to mobs over 11 models with the Frateris, sounds about right I would say.

Yeah, that sounds better. The Repentia squad is just there, doing their thing, and all of a sudden they find themselves being carried forward on a human wave in the throes of a religious frenzy.

It would help to give the Repentia squad more chance of reaching the enemy without them actually leading the militia. You could have a reverse of the rule that says once the Frateris get below half strength (of whatever size their group was when it 'mobbed up' with the Repentia) they automatically fall back, possibly living the Repentia up their necks in gak but I guess that would be the point!

Hmm... though.... the Repentia already have Fleet. Would they grant that to the mob? I wouldn't think so... so one might end up losing the Repentia on the approach anyway, without some movement shenanigans, as casualties are taken from the front, and if they are using Fleet they are going to be sprinting ahead of the mob.

Though I guess that depends on basically not taking advantage of the Fleet rule until you get close enough to Move and then Assault... but if you're charging a gunline army, I don't think the Frateris Mob is going to make that much of a difference.

Psienesis wrote:Hmm... though.... the Repentia already have Fleet. Would they grant that to the mob?

Come to think of it, that would be an elegant solution, no?

Gameplaywise, you could use the militia as cannonfodder to protect the precious Repentia. Fluffwise, it's a bunch of fanatics getting inspired by someone even more zealous, and rallying around them (thus "accidentally" shielding the smaller squad with their more numerous bodies).

Yeah, if the Repentia granted Fleet to any Frateris that mobbed up with them, and they just flat-out ran at the enemy as one big pile, then that would work out fine.

This needs to happen... Maybe with just one bolter barrel. Combi-combi-weapon.

 Gogsnik wrote:
How about a Sister's version of the Mobbing Up rule? Frateris Militia can/must pass a Leadership test when within 6" of Repentia and if the test is passed/failed (depends on your perspective there I suppose) the Frateris join the Repentia in a wave of righteous frenzy. You could even use the ork fearless mechanic given to mobs over 11 models with the Frateris, sounds about right I would say.

That sounds really cool. What is the Mobbing Up rule, though? Some Orky thing? I don't think I have the current Codex:Green Meanies.

SoB squad types derive their names from types of angels or references of an angelic nature... Dominion and seraphim. In the same convention of those two are Thones and Virtues... Thrones being the four angels that form the wheels of God's chariot... Virtues being the deliverers of miracles. Both to me bring to mind allusion that could be made by news units.... say a armored car type ground vehicle... Or for the other either a veteran unit or aircraft with the ability to be precisely where it's needed.

I like that. "Throne" sounds a bit too generic (the average gamer would just think of the chair), but "Virtue" would fit even in its common meaning. Plus, a "Virtue-pattern Lightning" would fit to the existing Justice-pattern Immolator...

This also reminds me of the "Elohim" rank that Black Industries invented for Battle Sisters in the Inquisitor's Handbook. It got picked up by James Swallow, I think - in the Red & Black audiobook.
I've adopted that one into my headcanon, too.

"Thrones" are in some instances translated as the Valiant... Probably a more easily used name.

On a different note... Who maintains the SoB's vehicles?-Do they anything analogous to Techpriest/Techmarines?

On the Repentia:
I've said it in previous threads, but I would reboot their appearance and their methodology.

I would have the Repentia still wear their usual under-armour bodyglove (basically the equivalent of the quilted jacket worn under plate armour in medieval times), with the torn tabard worn over that for modesty. It makes more sense than the current miniatures which wear what seems to be a uniform specifically created for the Repentia rather than my uniform-by-default.

And I would emphasise that the purpose of the Repentia is not to die, it is to redeem themselves, in their own eyes and the eyes of the Emperor. The squad's mistress carries neural whips not so she can turn them on her charges, but so that she can incapacitate the most dangerous enemies - like those wielding power weapons - who would otherwise kill her charges before they had a chance to strike. Her greatest aspiration would be for the women under her care to live long enough to redeem themselves and return to the Sisterhood proper.

Hrm... doesn't really fit the concept behind the Repentia though. Remember, the SOB is a penitent order... in everything they do, they're making up for some sin or transgression or another, the Repentia are the ones (mostly) who actually got caught breaking some rule or stricture or another....

... hey, maybe this is where Sisters who drink, gamble and flirt end up, neh?

... and so, with being a penitent Order, and now having something to actually pay a penance for... death in battle is their way to atone. Any other concern is secondary to that goal. This is also why the Repentia Mistress is there. She's there to remind her charges that they are being punished for whatever it was that made them Repentia, whether they chose that fate or were sentenced to it. While the neural whips are effective against a lot of foes... well, think about it. It's a whip. The types of people the Sisters are going to run into frequently that will probably have power weapons are Space Marines. A neural whip isn't going to phase them.

... and, yes, IG officers and such often carry power weapons, too, but in-universe, that's like one guy out of a platoon of forty. Power Weapons of any form are commented on as being arcane and rare, potent weapons in the Imperium. Not super-rare like some gear, but rare enough to be a sign of wealth and prestige. A pack of Repentia is not worried about that one guy with a power sword.

Don't forget, the Eviscerator is also a power-weapon. It's a two-handed chainsword wrapped in a powerfield. It's overkill and redundancy in a not-so-elegant weapon of carnage.

 Psienesis wrote:

... and, yes, IG officers and such often carry power weapons, too, but in-universe, that's like one guy out of a platoon of forty. Power Weapons of any form are commented on as being arcane and rare, potent weapons in the Imperium. Not super-rare like some gear, but rare enough to be a sign of wealth and prestige. A pack of Repentia is not worried about that one guy with a power sword.

Power weapons are actually quite common in the IG. At least to those who have access to them. According to the Only War RPG, power weapons are just as "rare" as hunter-killer missiles, bolt pistols, multi-lasers(!!) or autocannons(!!!).

 Psienesis wrote:
...death in battle is their way to atone.

Feth. That. Sacrifice is commendable because of what it achieves, not because of what it costs. Risking death to perform heroic deeds is a fine way for them to atone. Death for its own sake is merely a waste of a valuable resource.

Don't forget, the Eviscerator is also a power-weapon. It's a two-handed chainsword wrapped in a powerfield. It's overkill and redundancy in a not-so-elegant weapon of carnage.

The Eviscerator is a slow power weapon. Which is why the Mistress needs to take out the fast power weapons in the enemy's ranks that would kill a Repentia before they had a chance to retaliate.

The problem with that theory is that Repentia don't wear armour, so the only one at especial risk from a power weapon over a regular, unpowered weapon is the Mistress herself.

Neural whips aside, the Mistress is there to tank shooting attacks on her power armour, as far as I'm concerned, so that the Repentia can make it into CC in the first place. :p
I
Mob Up rule was from the 3e Codex: Orks, and was the method by which an under-strength Ork unit that was fleeing would get a chance to rally and join another Ork squad for the rest of the game.

Troike wrote:
Oh? I was told that the Sisters got an allright portrayal in that. Were they portrayed badly?

They have an okay portrayal in that they aren't shown as drinking, flirting or gambling, I guess.

However, they also don't do anything until the Wolves tell them to. They have a month before the enemy army arrives to besiege their walled city. They don't make any preparations to defend said city until the Wolves arrive two days before the army arrives. Literally none.

They also allow plague carriers into the city in the name of sentimentality and charity ("I thought we were saving them" - a direct quote from the canoness, who then admits she was wrong and should have killed them as soon as the Space Wolves tell her so).

The Sisterhoods Face Character, an ex-famulous who previously worked with the Inquisition, actively kills several of her Sisters in a fake infiltration raid in order to cover up and destroy Inquisition secrets... which she then tells to the person she was hiding them from anyway. Oh, and she admits to lacking faith and being a doubter. So the face character is an explicitly bad Battle Sister.

Finally, a Palatine and five Sisters with flamers, along with a platoon of Imperial guardsmen, in an entrenched, defensive position manage to kill "dozens" of cultists before being overwhelmed and killed. Compare to the Wolves killing "thousands" and walking home.

Somehow, this is portrayed as impressive. So, Blood of Asaheim may not have whorish, gambling Sisters... but it does have incompetent, lazy, treacherous and overall faithless Sisters. Even the Canoness says "I had lost faith and thought we were going to die until you arrived" - talking about an under-strength squad of Grey Hunters, who apparently are so awesome that they teach a Canoness of the Sisters of Battle to believe in the Emperor again.

By the way, these are Wounded Heart sisters - they faced down the 13th black crusade, yet here they doubt, lose faith and give up because of a horde of cultists led by three plague marines. Three.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
However, they also don't do anything until the Wolves tell them to. They have a month before the enemy army arrives to besiege their walled city. They don't make any preparations to defend said city until the Wolves arrive two days before the army arrives. Literally none.

They also allow plague carriers into the city in the name of sentimentality and charity ("I thought we were saving them" - a direct quote from the canoness, who then admits she was wrong and should have killed them as soon as the Space Wolves tell her so).

The Sisterhoods Face Character, an ex-famulous who previously worked with the Inquisition, actively kills several of her Sisters in a fake infiltration raid in order to cover up and destroy Inquisition secrets... which she then tells to the person she was hiding them from anyway. Oh, and she admits to lacking faith and being a doubter. So the face character is an explicitly bad Battle Sister.

Finally, a Palatine and five Sisters with flamers, along with a platoon of Imperial guardsmen, in an entrenched, defensive position manage to kill "dozens" of cultists before being overwhelmed and killed. Compare to the Wolves killing "thousands" and walking home.

Somehow, this is portrayed as impressive. So, Blood of Asaheim may not have whorish, gambling Sisters... but it does have incompetent, lazy, treacherous and overall faithless Sisters. Even the Canoness says "I had lost faith and thought we were going to die until you arrived" - talking about an under-strength squad of Grey Hunters, who apparently are so awesome that they teach a Canoness of the Sisters of Battle to believe in the Emperor again.

By the way, these are Wounded Heart sisters - they faced down the 13th black crusade, yet here they doubt, lose faith and give up because of a horde of cultists led by three plague marines. Three.

Oh dear. Sounds like another case of an author writing them being firmly in the shadow of the Space Marines, and not really understanding them in the first place. I won't be buying it, then. Thanks for the heads up.

Yeah, I'm super annoyed since it now turns out that's £11 I could have put towards my copy of the sisters codex, which i now can't afford. ><

 aka_mythos wrote:
"Thrones" are in some instances translated as the Valiant... Probably a more easily used name.

Thrones is a currency in the setting though too.

 aka_mythos wrote:
On a different note... Who maintains the SoB's vehicles?-Do they anything analogous to Techpriest/Techmarines?

I've always wondered about this.

To be affordable. I would really like to start Sisters (or should we call them Adepta now?), but I still have 2 40k armies in progress + small lizardmen updates.

Furyou Miko wrote:They have an okay portrayal in that they aren't shown as drinking, flirting or gambling, I guess.
However, they also don't do anything until the Wolves tell them to. They have a month before the enemy army arrives to besiege their walled city. They don't make any preparations to defend said city until the Wolves arrive two days before the army arrives. Literally none.
They also allow plague carriers into the city in the name of sentimentality and charity ("I thought we were saving them" - a direct quote from the canoness, who then admits she was wrong and should have killed them as soon as the Space Wolves tell her so).
The Sisterhoods Face Character, an ex-famulous who previously worked with the Inquisition, actively kills several of her Sisters in a fake infiltration raid in order to cover up and destroy Inquisition secrets... which she then tells to the person she was hiding them from anyway. Oh, and she admits to lacking faith and being a doubter. So the face character is an explicitly bad Battle Sister.
Finally, a Palatine and five Sisters with flamers, along with a platoon of Imperial guardsmen, in an entrenched, defensive position manage to kill "dozens" of cultists before being overwhelmed and killed. Compare to the Wolves killing "thousands" and walking home.
Somehow, this is portrayed as impressive. So, Blood of Asaheim may not have whorish, gambling Sisters... but it does have incompetent, lazy, treacherous and overall faithless Sisters. Even the Canoness says "I had lost faith and thought we were going to die until you arrived" - talking about an under-strength squad of Grey Hunters, who apparently are so awesome that they teach a Canoness of the Sisters of Battle to believe in the Emperor again.
By the way, these are Wounded Heart sisters - they faced down the 13th black crusade, yet here they doubt, lose faith and give up because of a horde of cultists led by three plague marines. Three.

Somehow I have a feeling that SoB might be more popular if some freelance authors wouldn't constantly write them off as this crappy and incompetent.
We need a new Daemonifuge...

ClockworkZion wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:On a different note... Who maintains the SoB's vehicles?-Do they anything analogous to Techpriest/Techmarines?

I've always wondered about this.

"Besides the Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes, only a select few Imperial organisations now have access to Rhinos, the priceless technology involved in their construction and maintenance is too valuable to be entrusted to any but the most loyal and steadfast bodies of warriors. The Adepta Sororitas and Adeptus Arbites in particular have a number of Rhinos, and they maintain a body of those sanctified and pure of heart to care for them. Years of training go towards achieving this respected position. Aspirants must learn how to divine the runes of engineering, memorise the liturgy of maintenance and constantly study the routine of service. It is a position of great honour to care for these vehicles and those that are carried into battle within one of these armoured transports are mindful of the spirits that inhabit the mechanical functions and blessed bolts that make up each one."
- WD #269 : Rhinos

I like to think of them as a "Mistress of the Armoury" or something like that. A tech-savvy Sister in a huge crimson robe worn above a Hospitaller-like carapace, with all sorts of tools crammed into a dozen pockets. Though that's really just the mental image I have in mind.

Did...she just clothesline a Rubric Marine while wearing a nightgown?

That's pretty metal.

Yes. Yes, she did. I never noticed that before.

She, in fact, clotheslined a Rubric Marine while wearing a nightgown and shooting someone else with a bolt pistol one handed.

Granted, Ephrael is "special", and that sequence has a twist to it ...
... but still, the entire comic is pretty badass - about Sisters as a whole.


Canoness Ramientes is pretty cool. And even the old Abbess in the Convent Sanctorum gets to troll an Inquisitor...

Wow, that's metal. The clotheslining of a marine while in an evening gown thing I mean. I love it, sounds like something one of my characters from Dark Heresy would do

A nightgown is sleepwear, Melissia, an evening gown is formal wear. :p

That reminds me of something I saw.


:b

^Gosh, it has just reminded me how insanely OP the sisters are in the 40k RPGs .

That comic's hilarious. I still need to find a local DH campaign so I can play the genki girl/cloudcukoolander sisters character I rolled up a while back.

AtoMaki wrote:^Gosh, it has just reminded me how insanely OP the sisters are in the 40k RPGs .

Ehh, depends on how/when/where you introduce them, really. And what you compare them to.
Black Industries' Inquisitor's Handbook supplement featured a rather clever solution by having Sororitas characters be Novices for the first four ranks, and at about rank 5 the team should be close to getting advanced armour and weaponry for other characters as well.

Unfortunately, it's just not viable to have them team up with Space Marines (such as in a game of Deathwatch, or when taking a Grey Knight into your Dark Heresy party) as FFG's Astartes play in a totally different league, with special rules and traits that make them almost invulnerable to the sort of weapons and enemies that DH characters would usually deal with.
And let's not even talk about Blood of Martyrs, which fluffwise nerfed the Sisters to "Guardsmen +1" and gave them weird space magicks, and handed them power armour at rank 1 already. That's, like, the worst possible thing you could do to the SoB as a faction and gameplay balance.

A far cry from the strong-willed zealots that can keep up even with Space Marines by sheer conviction and grit, and whose armour and armaments are just as good as theirs - if one were to go by GW's fluff instead of FFG's Astartes hype.

/rant

And that, folks, is why I always play techpriests in Dark Heresy.

Out of curiosity, can you play as a member of the Divisio Biologis, or can you only go machine cult? I suppose it depends on how you play it, but is there Biologis friendly gear?

 Lynata wrote:

... but still, the entire comic is pretty badass - about Sisters as a whole.

Are all these comics from the old 'Inferno' books? I still have a few of those lying around. They are a good thing to pull out and read once in a while.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Out of curiosity, can you play as a member of the Divisio Biologis, or can you only go machine cult? I suppose it depends on how you play it, but is there Biologis friendly gear?

Biologis are still machine cult. :p

Techpriest is a generic Skilled class with cybernetic bonuses. Which skills (tech, bio, shooting, whatever) you pick up then decides your divisio.

 Lynata wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:On a different note... Who maintains the SoB's vehicles?-Do they anything analogous to Techpriest/Techmarines?

I've always wondered about this.

"Besides the Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes, only a select few Imperial organisations now have access to Rhinos, the priceless technology involved in their construction and maintenance is too valuable to be entrusted to any but the most loyal and steadfast bodies of warriors. The Adepta Sororitas and Adeptus Arbites in particular have a number of Rhinos, and they maintain a body of those sanctified and pure of heart to care for them. Years of training go towards achieving this respected position. Aspirants must learn how to divine the runes of engineering, memorise the liturgy of maintenance and constantly study the routine of service. It is a position of great honour to care for these vehicles and those that are carried into battle within one of these armoured transports are mindful of the spirits that inhabit the mechanical functions and blessed bolts that make up each one."
- WD #269 : Rhinos

I like to think of them as a "Mistress of the Armoury" or something like that. A tech-savvy Sister in a huge crimson robe worn above a Hospitaller-like carapace, with all sorts of tools crammed into a dozen pockets. Though that's really just the mental image I have in mind.

I just can't imagine a SoB who has given herself over to the Mechanicum in the way Techmarines have. I kinda imagine something like you've said but accompanied by a band of maidens who maintain the armory... Where there is almost a sense of maintaining purity from the Omnissiahs influence by intentionally being ignorant of its workings. Where the knowledge is divided with each Sister only knowing a small piece of the ceremonies and rites of servicing the different equipment. Where too much knowledge of the Machine god is viewed as a corrupting influence. I think this is a notion consistent with some of the different specialized SoB units where their specialization is viewed as a bit of a sacrifice and burden.

Which makes sense and also explains why we don't see a "Techpriestess" in any of the Sisters' codices over the years.

Rule wise I imagine they'd start off functioning similarly to a Techpriest but where either the ability to deal with specific types of damage or the ease of dealing with damage to vehicles are diminished with each model removed.

Weapon-wise I don't see them using servo-arms and power weapons... Relying instead on equipment not associated with the Mechanicum... Something like lascutters and welders.


Another unit I'd like to see and have been thinking about are Crusaders. As we all know the prohibition on the eclissiarchy from maintaining a standing army of men was worked around by virtue of the army being women. The other work around is apparent in the form of Frateris Militia... Militias aren't really standing armies as much as they are ad-hoc armies brought up temporarily and reactionary. Crusaders are effectively a higher quality form of Militia either drawn from those of a higher social standing or from those with prior military experience. I think this elite unit should be a unit expanded with a greater number of close combat weapon options. I'd like to see them be more than a unit with a single composition.

Well, I'm going by the fluff in White Dwarf ("[...] divine the runes of engineering, memorise the liturgies of maintenance [...] mindful of the spirits [...]") - but that's a personal decision, of course. Still, I think it fits to the "greater picture"; it'd be odd if the Sisters were the only ones in the entire Imperium immune from the superstitious teachings of the Machine Cult, an organisation that is far older than the Sisterhood, and gained considerable power and influence long before the Adeptus Ministorum was even founded.

I still agree about the lack of servo-arms, though. They may have accepted the need to offer respect to the machine spirits in the gear and vehicles they maintain, but respect for the Sacred Human Form still reigns supreme, and unnecessary bionics go against this concept. How can you improve what is already perfect?

Pendix wrote:Are all these comics from the old 'Inferno' books? I still have a few of those lying around. They are a good thing to pull out and read once in a while.

Inferno? That name rings a bell, but I can't quite put my finger on it now ...

Daemonifuge and Deff Skwadron were standalone comic series published by Black Library. The Redeemer may have been, too. Kal Jerico is from Warhammer Monthly.

I've posted a couple comic recommendations here, if you're interested.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Out of curiosity, can you play as a member of the Divisio Biologis, or can you only go machine cult? I suppose it depends on how you play it, but is there Biologis friendly gear?

Biologis are still machine cult. :p

Techpriest is a generic Skilled class with cybernetic bonuses. Which skills (tech, bio, shooting, whatever) you pick up then decides your divisio.

What do you call the branch that everyone knows of then? The machine obsessed ones?

 Lynata wrote:
Inferno? That name rings a bell, but I can't quite put my finger on it now ...

Daemonifuge and Deff Skwadron were standalone comic series published by Black Library. The Redeemer may have been, too. Kal Jerico is from Warhammer Monthly.

I've posted a couple comic recommendations here, if you're interested.

Inferno was a monthly (or bi? Been a while) magazine with short stories, fluff and background pieces and comic strips. It was varied but there were some real gems in there. Redeemer was originally published in Warhammer Monthly before being re-printed as a standalone book.

Gosh I miss those experimental days.

 Lynata wrote:

Daemonifuge and Deff Skwadron were standalone comic series published by Black Library. The Redeemer may have been, too. Kal Jerico is from Warhammer Monthly.

I've posted a couple comic recommendations here, if you're interested.

Thanks! I'll look into them.

 Muddypaw wrote:


Inferno was a monthly (or bi? Been a while) magazine with short stories, fluff and background pieces and comic strips. It was varied but there were some real gems in there. Redeemer was originally published in Warhammer Monthly before being re-printed as a standalone book.

Gosh I miss those experimental days.

I checked my issues; 'those days' were the late 90s, dam, that seems like a age ago. Inferno was great. I've got issues 6, 7, & then 10 to 15. Issue 12 actually has a good short story featuring a Sister & a Space Marine. It's called 'Daemonblood' by Ben Counter, and I'd heartily recommend it . . . if I knew any way for people to read it.

Daemonblood is included in the Black Library book "Let the Galaxy Burn", which is a collection of lots of short stories. I guess you could find it on the BL website. And yes, I'd recommend it. Cool plot, and a writer who actually understands the Sisters.

I think a Machine Sister, as it were, could work if it was indicated to be something independent of the Machine Cult.

Perhaps add another non-militant order, intent on gaining new technology for the Ecclesiarchy and general Imperial use, bartering these new techs for more and more concessions from the Mechanicus?

Could go like this:
Sister of Battle
Sister Hospitaller
Sister Dialogous
Sister Famulous
Sister Technical

Sister Technicanus?

I don't think the Sisters should get proper field mechanics. The Rhino chassis is apparently easy to keep running in the field - as shown by the Repair special rule - so the focus should be on keeping them in working order between visits to the tech priests.

On the subject of Rhinos, one of my additions would be a command pulpit, allowing a Rhino to be upgraded with an additional transport slot and fire point, so that it can carry a ten woman squad plus an IC.

 AlexHolker wrote:
I don't think the Sisters should get proper field mechanics. The Rhino chassis is apparently easy to keep running in the field - as shown by the Repair special rule - so the focus should be on keeping them in working order between visits to the tech priests.

On the subject of Rhinos, one of my additions would be a command pulpit, allowing a Rhino to be upgraded with an additional transport slot and fire point, so that it can carry a ten woman squad plus an IC.

I don't know where you could put such a thing on our Rhino kit though.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I don't know where you could put such a thing on our Rhino kit though.

It could replace the storm bolter.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I don't know where you could put such a thing on our Rhino kit though.

It could replace the storm bolter.

So the vehicle would lose it's actual weapon in exchange for an extra passenger slot?

While cool, I imagine some people would be quite annoyed if this upgrade then also cost them points.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Out of curiosity, can you play as a member of the Divisio Biologis, or can you only go machine cult? I suppose it depends on how you play it, but is there Biologis friendly gear?

Biologis are still machine cult. :p

Techpriest is a generic Skilled class with cybernetic bonuses. Which skills (tech, bio, shooting, whatever) you pick up then decides your divisio.

What do you call the branch that everyone knows of then? The machine obsessed ones?

Again, they're all machine obsessed. I believe the ones who maintain vehicles are Magos Fabricatus, but it's possibly I pulled that out of my backside. The Machine Cult is the low gothic name for the Adeptus Mechanicus, like the Ecclesiarchy is the low gothic name for the Adeptus Ministorum. All techpriests - whether biologists, xenologists, mechanics, astronomers - worship the divine machine.

 AlexHolker wrote:
I don't think the Sisters should get proper field mechanics. The Rhino chassis is apparently easy to keep running in the field - as shown by the Repair special rule - so the focus should be on keeping them in working order between visits to the tech priests.

On the subject of Rhinos, one of my additions would be a command pulpit, allowing a Rhino to be upgraded with an additional transport slot and fire point, so that it can carry a ten woman squad plus an IC.

Or they could just put the minimum squad size back at 5, where it belongs for elite troops like Tac Marines and Battle Sisters, and then you could fit 5+IC into an Immolator or 9+IC into a Rhino, or all sorts of crazy things, especially if you make Hospitaller and Dialogus available as upgrades to any squad, like the Imagifer. (My fandex in process does this). And you wouldn't have to kitbash a Rhino or anything, just use the models you have.

Muddypaw wrote:Inferno was a monthly (or bi? Been a while) magazine with short stories, fluff and background pieces and comic strips. It was varied but there were some real gems in there. Redeemer was originally published in Warhammer Monthly before being re-printed as a standalone book.
Gosh I miss those experimental days.

Gotcha!
Wow, I wish GW would bring those two magazines back. And the oldschool White Dwarf...

Pendix wrote:Issue 12 actually has a good short story featuring a Sister & a Space Marine. It's called 'Daemonblood' by Ben Counter, and I'd heartily recommend it . . . if I knew any way for people to read it.

Troike wrote:Daemonblood is included in the Black Library book "Let the Galaxy Burn", which is a collection of lots of short stories. I guess you could find it on the BL website. And yes, I'd recommend it. Cool plot, and a writer who actually understands the Sisters.

I know it from the "Dark Imperium" anthology. It's an excellent read. One of the best, even.

Melissia wrote:Perhaps add another non-militant order, intent on gaining new technology for the Ecclesiarchy and general Imperial use, bartering these new techs for more and more concessions from the Mechanicus?

One could even theorise the Orders Pronatus do this already, depending on how you interpret the range of those "item":

"The Orders Pronatus specialise in retrieving, guarding, studying and repairing artefacts of value to the Ecclesiarchy. This includes the uncounted thousands of holy relics revered by the peoples of the Imperium, but it also relates to items captured by the forces of the Imperium that are considered too powerful or significant to be allowed to fall into enemy hands."

Melissia wrote:I think a Machine Sister, as it were, could work if it was indicated to be something independent of the Machine Cult.

AlexHolker wrote:I don't think the Sisters should get proper field mechanics. The Rhino chassis is apparently easy to keep running in the field - as shown by the Repair special rule - so the focus should be on keeping them in working order between visits to the tech priests.

Both these options seem too extreme for me, and I prefer the middle way. Neither should the Sisters be the only one faction in the entire Imperium completely independent from AdMech teachings, nor should their personnel have so little technical knowledge that it necessitates "regular visits from the Techpriests" - something that might already be impractical simply due to the isolation of its convents and the "no men allowed!" thing, but also the increased political power it would grant to the Mechanicus over the Ministorum. They already have the option to pull the plug on equipment manufacture (save for the items and vehicles produced on Ophelia VII itself), but a monopoly on repairs would cripple the Orders Militant .. at least the Major ones who are basically jumping from one crusade to another, and surely suffer a lot of mechanical attrition.

Furyou Miko wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:What do you call the branch that everyone knows of then? The machine obsessed ones?

Again, they're all machine obsessed. I believe the ones who maintain vehicles are Magos Fabricatus, but it's possibly I pulled that out of my backside. The Machine Cult is the low gothic name for the Adeptus Mechanicus, like the Ecclesiarchy is the low gothic name for the Adeptus Ministorum. All techpriests - whether biologists, xenologists, mechanics, astronomers - worship the divine machine.

Perhaps this helps - a page from the old Codex Imperialis that details the inner workings of the AdMech.


Take it with a grain of salt, though - FFG likes to go their own ways with such details of fluff, so it may well be that it works differently in Dark Heresy.

Codex Imperialis is an excellent book, by the way. It's old (2E), but contains tons of cool fluff about any organisation of the Imperium, including even the lesser featured departments such as the Arbites or the Telepathica. Also, at least in GW's own fluff, the amount of retcons is not as big as commonly believed (thanks to various deviating outsourced products such as BL novels etc). I think the "Engineers" did get renamed into "Enginseers", though, as one of the writers got that (rather excellent) idea.

The Mechanicum is pretty much a religion in its own right... That makes it hard to believe the SoB would desire a Techpriest present or pursue that knowledge except out of necessity. It's why I liked my idea for machine maidens, where the knowledge exists amongst this small cadre but where no one member knows so much as to be corrupted or influenced by the Mechanicum.

Imagine rebuilding an engine, one member knows the order pieces come off and go back on... but beyond that the others simply work on small sections without necessarily understanding the whole.

 aka_mythos wrote:
The Mechanicum is pretty much a religion in its own right... That makes it hard to believe the SoB would desire a Techpriest present or pursue that knowledge except out of necessity. It's why I liked my idea for machine maidens, where the knowledge exists amongst this small cadre but where no one member knows so much as to be corrupted or influenced by the Mechanicum.

Imagine rebuilding an engine, one member knows the order pieces come off and go back on... but beyond that the others simply work on small sections without necessarily understanding the whole.

there is a significant portion of the Mechanicum who see the Omnissaih and the Emperor as being one and the same being and even worship the Emperor as a god. That's good enough for me.

The problem is the inverse isn't necessarily true. The SoB don't necessarily see the competing Imperial religion and view of the Emperor as an acceptable one. It's the Ecclisiarchy and the SoB who would decide if its acceptable. The Mechanicum's view of the Emperor could be argued as a reconciled version of their dogma to make them more palatable to the part of the Imperium that might otherwise want them purged for heresy, but it doesn't mean those two sides are friendly.

 aka_mythos wrote:
The problem is the inverse isn't necessarily true. The SoB don't necessarily see the competing Imperial religion and view of the Emperor as an acceptable one. It's the Ecclisiarchy and the SoB who would decide if its acceptable. The Mechanicum's view of the Emperor could be argued as a reconciled version of their dogma to make them more palatable to the part of the Imperium that might otherwise want them purged for heresy, but it doesn't mean those two sides are friendly.

*ahem* WRONG. */Lex Luthor*

The Imperial Cult accepts ALL viewpoints that venerate the Emperor as God. It's a key tenant of their faith.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
The problem is the inverse isn't necessarily true. The SoB don't necessarily see the competing Imperial religion and view of the Emperor as an acceptable one. It's the Ecclisiarchy and the SoB who would decide if its acceptable. The Mechanicum's view of the Emperor could be argued as a reconciled version of their dogma to make them more palatable to the part of the Imperium that might otherwise want them purged for heresy, but it doesn't mean those two sides are friendly.

*ahem* WRONG. */Lex Luthor*

The Imperial Cult accepts ALL viewpoints that venerate the Emperor as God. It's a key tenant of their faith.

Not entirely true...

There's a fact called the "Temple Tendency," iirc, who are more or less the Ministorium's rivals. They are remnants of the Imperial Church headed by Vandire, before he was ousted by Thor and his Confederation of Light.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Temple_Tendency#.UlGr7lBkPdA

Granted, they are only in the Dark Heresy RPG, so YMMV

I like this concept. It's very reminiscent of the religious rivalries of the 16th century.

Vandire wasn't "ousted" by anyone though. He was in charge of the Ministranium up until he was beheaded. Thor was only put in charge afterwards and the Conderation of Light was a giant "F-You" mob who was against Vandire.

So yeah, not counting that one.

The Imperial Cult absorbs or destroys other religions. They never get to exist long enough to really be rivals.

So uh according to Cruddace the new Adeptas Sororitas codex (our new official name) will only have points costs tweaks and no real overhaul of the way they play, boo hiss.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
So uh according to Cruddace the new Adeptas Sororitas codex (our new official name) will only have points costs tweaks and no real overhaul of the way they play, boo hiss.

So uh, you're a few days late and behind on the information we have. Here's what you missed:

 Troike wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
anyone have a summary of the more reliable rumors we've heard thus far about the new codex?

- Warlord Traits
- Relics
- Altar of War
- Faith has been "looked at" in response to the scaling issue
- 'Minor' point tweaks
- Will probably get a physical release if it sells well enough
- Released on 19th, preordering and a preview on the 12th
- New artwork
- New fluff

That's everything from our reliable sources, as far as I can tell. Here's the sources all in one place, though:

- White Dwarf mention

Spoiler:

- evildrcheese's talk with Robin Cruddace:

evildrcheese wrote:Spoke to Cruddence @ Games Day re SoB asking if the digital version is his WD dex. He confirmed it is, hes been involved in the writing of the warlord traits was the impression I got. He also told me they'velooked at the scaling issue for faith points and that there's been 'minor' point tweaks. Release date is for next month (October). Interestingly he said it'll probably be treat like a supplement in that if it sells well as a digital it's probably get a physical release. Spoke to someone from the digital editions stand and they confirmed it'll be for Android aswell as Ipad.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420/554140.page#6097666

- Games Workshop Digital Editions Facebook page:

Games Workshop: Digital Editions wrote:It's certainly based on the White Dwarf Sisters of Battle Codex, but with new additions to bring it in line with the new books. Things like Warlords table, new Ecclesiarchy Relics and an Altar of War.
There's also new artwork and an expanded background section.

Games Workshop: Digital Editions wrote:In answer to your questions - you can preorder it from the 12th, and download it on the 19th.
Yup, it will work on Android and Kindle.
The rules have been amended, so you certainly won't need any FAQ's to play with the codex.
We haven't got any news on a physical release.

Games Workshop: Digital Editions wrote:You can preorder you copy and download a preview next weekend.

https://www.facebook.com/GamesWorkshopDigitalEditions

 Shandara wrote:
The rumor was just that they were discussing faith points and scaling, no?

His exact words were "they've looked at the scaling issue for faith points", which implies that it's been worked on. Hopefully for the better.

Differences in religious beliefs have surely been the source of much distrust and simmering conflict, with the peace being kept purely out of necessity (the Imperium needs both organisations) and concessions made by both sides (AdMech adopts the Machine God=Emperor, Ecclesiarchy leaves them be rather than pushing for a War of Faith).

Still, there are a couple important things to consider:

#1 The belief that there exists something like a machine spirit does not automatically mean acceptance of the Machine God as a deity. A Sister may well respect and beseech the "spirits" in their gear without having to deviate an iota from her Ministorum-approved dogma.
#2 The Ecclesiarchy commands the faith of all human souls outside the AdMech Forge worlds and Space Marine fiefs. Are Tech-Priests thus really the only ones in the Imperium who believe in machine spirits? That just seems odd.
#3 How do you think it works for the Techmarines of the faithful Black Templars?

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Not entirely true...

There's a fact called the "Temple Tendency," iirc, who are more or less the Ministorium's rivals. They are remnants of the Imperial Church headed by Vandire, before he was ousted by Thor and his Confederation of Light.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Temple_Tendency#.UlGr7lBkPdA

Granted, they are only in the Dark Heresy RPG, so YMMV

I like this concept. It's very reminiscent of the religious rivalries of the 16th century.

... That makes... absolutely no sense.

The two rival faiths were the Confederation of Light and the Church of the Saviour Emperor. The CotSE won and destroyed the Confederation of Light until Thor resurrected it to give his frateris militia something to rally around during their long march to Terra. Vandire was the Ecclesiarch of the Church of the Saviour Emperor, commonly called the Ecclesiarchy, officially named the Adeptus Ministorum.

Lynata wrote:Differences in religious beliefs have surely been the source of much distrust and simmering conflict, with the peace being kept purely out of necessity (the Imperium needs both organisations) and concessions made by both sides (AdMech adopts the Machine God=Emperor, Ecclesiarchy leaves them be rather than pushing for a War of Faith).

Still, there are a couple important things to consider:

#1 The belief that there exists something like a machine spirit does not automatically mean acceptance of the Machine God as a deity. A Sister may well respect and beseech the "spirits" in their gear without having to deviate an iota from her Ministorum-approved dogma.
#2 The Ecclesiarchy commands the faith of all human souls outside the AdMech Forge worlds and Space Marine fiefs. Are Tech-Priests thus really the only ones in the Imperium who believe in machine spirits? That just seems odd.
#3 How do you think it works for the Techmarines of the faithful Black Templars?

Everyone believes in machine spirits, as far as I can tell, from lowly labourers to Archdeacons. The Sororitas probably don't grant machine spirits any greater devotion than they do human ones, though - where a skitariimight view his squad's rhino as a divine beast sent to guide them, a Sororita would probably think of it as a squad member. Animistic beliefs (which the machine cult most definitely is) don't always assign any special importance to the soul within a non-human, the important thing is recognising that it is there and working with it.

Furyou Miko wrote:... That makes... absolutely no sense.
The two rival faiths were the Confederation of Light and the Church of the Saviour Emperor. The CotSE won and destroyed the Confederation of Light until Thor resurrected it to give his frateris militia something to rally around during their long march to Terra. Vandire was the Ecclesiarch of the Church of the Saviour Emperor, commonly called the Ecclesiarchy, officially named the Adeptus Ministorum.

He means that it's a splinter from the "old" Ministorum before it was reorganised under Thor's guidance. They see themselves as the proper faith and the "new" Ministorum as ursurpers.

It's an interesting idea, though personally I think they could have done more with it by keeping it more localised but at the same time more influential.

Furyou Miko wrote:Everyone believes in machine spirits, as far as I can tell, from lowly labourers to Archdeacons. The Sororitas probably don't grant machine spirits any greater devotion than they do human ones, though - where a skitariimight view his squad's rhino as a divine beast sent to guide them, a Sororita would probably think of it as a squad member. Animistic beliefs (which the machine cult most definitely is) don't always assign any special importance to the soul within a non-human, the important thing is recognising that it is there and working with it.

It's an interesting compromise. I'm not sure if this is how the average Imperial citizen views machines, but it could work and propose an interesting counterpoint to the dogma promulgated by the Machine Cult.
Either way, I think the Sisters would treat their gear just like anyone else outside the AdMech does. The WD article still makes it sound somewhat religious, but as I suggested one could easily accept and respect the machine spirits without compromising faith in the God-Emperor as tought in the Scholae. The various clerics and Sororitas probably think of the Machine Cult as a misguided, barely tolerated religion that (thanks to the earlier addition of the Machine God being a facet of the Emperor) prays to the right god but does it in the wrong way? A number of real world religions are the same.

I think we are all at least in agreement there aren't SoB equivalent to Techmarines where even if we believe SoB would tolerate the religious aspects of the Mechanicum they wouldn't embrace the rites and indoctrination. That is to say SoB, in the absence of anything interestingly unique would just have accompanying techpriests.

In my short story I went with the theory of using a tech priestess. An engine seer was tolerated, though heretical, like navigators, but they had to be female. But I made it up because GW hasn't said one way or the other and until they do, most theories are valid.

I took a read at that story, by the way. Very nice characterisation - me like!

aka_mythos wrote:I think we are all at least in agreement there aren't SoB equivalent to Techmarines where even if we believe SoB would tolerate the religious aspects of the Mechanicum they wouldn't embrace the rites and indoctrination.

B-but that is what the White Dwarf article says ...

Or are you referring solely to the Machine God now, and not just the rites and indoctrination about the machine spirits?

aka_mythos wrote:That is to say SoB, in the absence of anything interestingly unique would just have accompanying techpriests.

They'd still be unique due to having to factor in their own faith and having their own equipment and traditions.
Otherwise that's kind of like saying that Seraphim are just like Assault Marines, or Retributors are just like Devastator squads, etc.

The Sisters are organised similar to the Space Marine Chapters; Codex fluff outright says so, and I just can't agree with this idea that the similarities should be discarded. I for one do not see their uniqueness threatened - they are still special enough, and the similarities they share with the Astartes should be embraced as a facet of their identity and equality, not shunned as an unwelcome reminder of them supposedly standing in the Marines' shadow.

 Lynata wrote:
I took a read at that story, by the way. Very nice characterisation - me like!

aka_mythos wrote:I think we are all at least in agreement there aren't SoB equivalent to Techmarines where even if we believe SoB would tolerate the religious aspects of the Mechanicum they wouldn't embrace the rites and indoctrination.

B-but that is what the White Dwarf article says ...

Or are you referring solely to the Machine God now, and not just the rites and indoctrination about the machine spirits?

I'm saying that the SoB don't strike me as the sort to send one of their members to be trained and indoctrinated on Mars in the teachings of another religion. That in the absence of a middleground that could justify SoB techs the only feasible unit to fill that role is just tag along Techpriests or Enginseers. Something not unique to the SoB.

Lynata wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:That is to say SoB, in the absence of anything interestingly unique would just have accompanying techpriests.

They'd still be unique due to having to factor in their own faith and having their own equipment and traditions.
Otherwise that's kind of like saying that Seraphim are just like Assault Marines, or Retributors are just like Devastator squads, etc.

The Sisters are organised similar to the Space Marine Chapters; Codex fluff outright says so, and I just can't agree with this idea that the similarities should be discarded. I for one do not see their uniqueness threatened - they are still special enough, and the similarities they share with the Astartes should be embraced as a facet of their identity and equality, not shunned as an unwelcome reminder of them supposedly standing in the Marines' shadow.

Inclusion of a Techpriest or Enginseer or even an SoB gone Mechanicum will always be in the shadow of Marines as it's just another unit that is a pale imitation of a marine unit.

It doesn't really serve 40k as a whole to have SoB be Marines lite. SoB suffer from that perspective already. This generally means different armies approaching similar problems in different ways based on limitations and philosophy. What we are discussing is the reconciliation of of different faiths, one of which is so intolerant they have their own army. It strikes me as out of place to see see techpriests or Enginseers in a SoB army as much as seeing an Ecclisiarchy priest in an Adeptus Mechanicus army.

Are we really trying to say that giving Sisters something like this guy:



who is an Imperial Guard model/army choice is somehow keeping them in the shadow of the Marines? Sisters are the only Imperium based force who can't field some kind of Mechanicum based unit, which seems a bit silly considering how damned useful they are. I'd love to have one hiding behind my Exorcists to keep them alive and shooting longer!

There are several points to the discussion.

It started with me proposing rather than a cookie cutter unit lifted from another codex SoB have their own interpretation to fill the niche that Enginseerts and Techmarines do.

The way you've phrased it, would misrepresent the discussion as "SoB shouldn't have an Enginseer" to the exclusion of other possibilities, while I am precisely emphasizing those other possibilities. I would say they should have something uniquely their's.

Any time someone says SoB should have "X" and it appears in another codex my thought is "Why? Why cant't this army be its own thing."

I tried to get people to discuss possibilities for what might be an otherwise yawn worthy unit. I proposed SoB machine maidens who's divided knowledge protect the SoB from the influence of a competing faith. I don't believe it's the greatest idea, I just think it's more interesting than "copy and paste" unit entries and was hoping others had similarly interesting ideas.

aka_mythos wrote:I'm saying that the SoB don't strike me as the sort to send one of their members to be trained and indoctrinated on Mars in the teachings of another religion. That in the absence of a middleground that could justify SoB techs the only feasible unit to fill that role is just tag along Techpriests or Enginseers. Something not unique to the SoB.

Of course this is a personal decision, but I'll rather stick to what little we're told in the White Dwarf article - both because I just like the idea (which means I am obviously biased), but also because I still do not see the conflict. These "teachings of another religion" are part of everyday life for the majority of Imperial citizens. Do you think an Imperial Guard regiment's Confessor will protest at the Guardsmen reciting some AdMech litany when cleaning their lasgun? Is it not more likely that the Confessor would regard this as perfectly normal, given that he or she hails from the same culture? And if so, how would this affect the Sororitas, who grow up in facilities run by Drill-Abbots hailing from those two organisations?

Besides, if we look at the Infiltrators of the Orders Sabine, the Sisters are quite versed in working with native faiths and alien cultures without compromising their own beliefs. All we're talking about here is the Tech-Priests teaching them some basic maintenance with all the necessary rites and liturgies.

aka_mythos wrote:Inclusion of a Techpriest or Enginseer or even an SoB gone Mechanicum will always be in the shadow of Marines as it's just another unit that is a pale imitation of a marine unit.

Guess that means we'll have to scrap the whole army now - given that everything but the Repentia could be called the same if one were dead-set on applying this mindset to them.

I do not see the Sisters "suffer" from this perspective at all, and I think it is both naive and harmful to deny the stylistic links between them and the Space Marines. Furthermore, we are not discussing the "reconciliation of different faiths" at all, we are discussing accepting a basic truth that, to my knowledge of the fluff, exists everywhere in the Imperium: there's a spirit in the machine, and it won't work if you don't use the correct prayers and incantations. That doesn't mean you have to start praying to the Machine God and forget about the God-Emperor, just like the Cult Mechanicus isn't suddenly a part of the Ecclesiarchy merely because they've introduced that "Machine God = Avatar of the Emperor" compromise into their teachings. This is a critical element in this speculation that might just make the acceptance of Sisters learning machine rituals easier ... or so I hope.

Well this is wishlisting. Inherent to that it carries with it the understanding that the opinions are wishful and the hope GW would rewrite whatever exists if it made an idea fit.

I'm not saying scrap the army but to grow the army in a unique way.

SoB need to break from this continuum of being between IG and Marines and be presented more uniquely. Despite the quote that's thrown around that the SoB are equipped to the same standard as Marines they have things like the Penitent Engine. It's included as more than just a close combat sentinel , it has a concept and rationalization to it and takes what might otherwise been a derivative unit into something unique. It's that type of extra thought I want to see on these types of units.

Fluffwise, the Penitent Engine is an Ecclesiarchy vehicle, actually - not something from the Sisters' own armoury. Same for the Arco-Flagellant.

Other than that, I find this idea scary. I grew attached to the Sisters of Battle specifically because they are what they are now - not because I always thought they could be different.

I guess it's just a case of conflicting preferences.

I'm actually with Lytana on this, Sisters have plenty going for them that is different than the Marines (I've yet to see any Marines with a faith power mechanic for example) and there is plenty of room for them to get even more without having to say "no, they can't have -that- because Marines have it".

Some of their basic wargear is similar to what Marines have. It's just something we have to accept and move on from. Not having some form of Techseer is actually a bit of a crippling thing for Sisters in the game since hull points have been introduced and getting a solution to that would be great, even if it makes us a bit more like the Marines.

We know that there's never been a tech priest(ess) in a Sisters army list, which makes them unique (as far as I know); they're also unique in not using missile launchers or lascannon, which are standard for the Guard, the Marines, and (in the case of lascannon) the Navy. We further know Ministorum-Mechanicum relations vary from "customer and supplier" to "open war." So how do the Ecclesiarchy in general and the Adepta Sororitas in particular maintain the somewhat narrow range of equipment the Mechanicum sells them?

[headcanon]
Unlike the Space Marinss, the Ecclesiarchy never sends personnel to Forge Worlds for training (what the clergy calls "Mechanicus brainwashing") and cyborgization ("mutilation of the sacred human form"). Instead, as with the Imperial Guard, the multi-generational contracts between various Cardinals and Forge Worlds specific that the Mechanicum provide not only equipment but a Techpriests and servitors -- in very small numbers, however, compared to a Departo Munitorum contract for the Guard.
The Ministorum prefers to keep its "loaner" Techpriests isolated from almost all its own personnel. Rather than letting the Techpriests perform most maintenance directly, the Ecclesiarchy prefers a "train the trainer" model, where it sends a few Deacons of proven faith and loyalty to the Techpriests to receive narrow technical training on specific systems; these Tech-Deacons are then thoroughly re-tested for ideological purity before being allowed to train large numbers of Ministorum personnel in even narrower skillsets.
In a typical Ordo Minoris of the Sisters of Battle, therefore, the Sisters themselves perform field maintenance on their gear, but anything seriously broken is sent back to an attached group of Ecclesiarchy support personnel supervised by a handful of Tech-Deacons; the arrangement is similar to Marine chapter serfs or a US Army battalion's maintenance company. Anything the Tech-Deacons can't handle -- and that's a lot -- is sent back to the quarantined Mechanicum tech-priests and their TechDeacons-in-training for what the Army would call "depot-level maintenance."
Between their limited and indirect access to Mechanicum expertise and the Decree Passive -- whose lesser-known provisions prohibit the Ecclesiarchy from even owning certain heavy weapons such as lascannon -- the Sisters' arsenal is lavishly equipped but somewhat narrow. The Ecclesiarchy spends a lot on wargear but gets less for each dollar (or whatever) than the Adepto Munitorum or the Astartes, if only because the frequent breakdowns in Ministorum-Mechanicum relations offer the Forge Worlds plenty of opportunities to renegotiate -- in some periods and places as often as once a century -- and jack up prices to take advantage of the Ecclesiarchy's wealth. What the Sisters do get, moreover, spends a lot more time transiting to and from specialized maintenance units than in Marine and Guard forces that bring their Tech-Priests with them in the field. As a result, the Sisters have a strong practical preference for reliable, rugged systems like Rhino-chassis vehicles and boltguns, which reinforces and in turn is reinforced by their traditions.
[/headcanon]

I guess the wishlisting thread isn't about wishlisting.

I've acknowledge the established fluff may say otherwise, but I'm throwing out there a wishful idea.

At least forgeworld took a step in the right direction and gave sisters some love by making repressors AV13

And in true Sisters style takes away the fire points at the same time, what's a boost without a little flagellation at the same time

Is the current Repressor downloadable from the Forgeworld site? I've seen multiple conflicting versions circulating around the web....

 SisterSydney wrote:
Is the current Repressor downloadable from the Forgeworld site? I've seen multiple conflicting versions circulating around the web....

Google is your friend:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/r/RepressorFAQversion1P.pdf

So it is that one. I've downloaded it but wasn't 100% sure if it was the latest & greatest or if there was something else hiding somewhere.

Yay AV13 and two firepoints.

 pretre wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
Is the current Repressor downloadable from the Forgeworld site? I've seen multiple conflicting versions circulating around the web....

Google is your friend:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/r/RepressorFAQversion1P.pdf

So is Forgeworld: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/fwDownloads

4th one down on the left.

I just want sisters to be easyer to buy.

Solid, that's what we've all been wanting since 1997.

Indeed. Hopefully, the long-rumored plastic Sisters will resolve that, but their reality remains to be seen.

The majority of metal SoB are unhelmeted it'll be interesting to see if the plastic minis continue that or if GW will give the kit enough helmets.

That's another thing. If I haven't mentioned it already, I'd love more Sabbat helms. I enjoy painting them, but they're kinda scarce in the current range.

 aka_mythos wrote:
The majority of metal SoB are unhelmeted it'll be interesting to see if the plastic minis continue that or if GW will give the kit enough helmets.

I think we'll see more helmets, sure. The Immolator pilot, one of our few plastics, gets the choice of a helmet or a bare head. Don't know if it'll be enough for a whole squad, though. Sisters seem to have thing about not wearing helmets. But that could be phased out, of course.

Oh, gods, yes. More helmets! I'm trying to build a Thousand Sons army using helmeted SoB as rubrics and I've still only managed to get one squad after two years.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
I don't think the Sisters should get proper field mechanics. The Rhino chassis is apparently easy to keep running in the field - as shown by the Repair special rule - so the focus should be on keeping them in working order between visits to the tech priests.

On the subject of Rhinos, one of my additions would be a command pulpit, allowing a Rhino to be upgraded with an additional transport slot and fire point, so that it can carry a ten woman squad plus an IC.

I don't know where you could put such a thing on our Rhino kit though.

On the subject of wish listing, why not simply say a Rhino can transport 12 sisters?
It can transport 10 Space Marines, who are 8' tall with bulky SM power armour while Sisters are 6' at best with a more 'slim line'* power armour.
This solves the IC transport problem and also allows a little more differentiation is SoB squad sizes compared to other imperial forces.

* Trademark name for SoB armour, slim line fit for that better figure

My thought re the Maintaince "issue" - although the Tech Priest in this story was awesome

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/547273.page

Elites Apparatus Guardianus 50pts
The Adepta Sororitas maintain a body of those sanctified and pure of heart to care for the powerful and arcane machinery at their disposal them. Years of training go towards achieving this respected position and aspirants must learn how to divine the runes of engineering, memorise the liturgy of maintenance and constantly study the routines of service. It is a position of great honour to care for this sacred technology and the Sororitas were granted this concession from the Adeptus Mechancius following the Icara Crusade. Apparatus gaurdianus are seldom risked din battle for they are invaluable in not merely maintaining the Orders weaponry and vehicles but passing that knowledge to their aspirants.

WS BS S T W I A LD Save
4 4 3 4 1 3 1 9 2+ / 6+ Invulnerable
Composition: 1 Apparatus Gaurdianus,
Unit Type: Infantry (Character)
Wargear: Artificer Armour, Boltgun, Bolt pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Servo-Arm
Special Rules: Acts of Faith, Blessing of the Omnissiah, Command the Machine Spirits in His name, Shield of Faith
Upgrade servo-arm to a servo-harness 25pts
May replace her boltgun and/or bolt pistol with
Chainsword free
Power axe, Power sword, Power maul, combi-flamer, combi-melta or plasma 10pts
Heavy Flamer 20pts
Blessing of the Omnissiah: In each of your shooting phases, instead of firing his weapons, A Apparatus Guardianus may choose to repair a single vehicle that she is in base contact with or embarked on. To repair a vehicle, roll a D6 and apply the following modifiers where applicable:
Each Aspirant in her unit +1 The Apparatus Guardianus has a servo-harness +1

If the result is 5 or more, you may restore a Hull Point lost earlier in the battle, or repair a Weapon Destroyed or
Immobilised Result suffered earlier in the battle; this is effective immediately.

Command the Machine Spirits in His name: This Act of Faith is used in the Shooting phase. If successful, the
Apparatus Guardianus may re-roll her repair roll if she chooses but must accept the second result.

Aspirant Squad 10pts
Unlike the Astartes, the Sororitas do not send those they choose to learn the arcane art of technomancy to the metal
worlds of the Mechanicus, but are allowed by ancient treaty to pass on their knowledge within their orders. Aspirants are
few in number and seldom risked in battle if it can be avoided.
WS BS S T W I A LD Save
3 3 3 3 1 3 1 8 4+ / 6+ Invulnerable
Composition: 1 Aspirant,
Unit Type: Infantry
Wargear:Bolt pistol, Carapace Armour, Frag and Krak Grenades

Special Rules: Acts of Faith, Shield of Faith
Include up to four additional Aspirants at 10pts per model
One Aspirant may replace her bolt pistol with a Meltagun 10pts

Dedicated Transport: The squad can select any dedicated transport except the Aquila Lander
You can take one Aspirant Squad for every Apparatus Guardianus you have included in your army. Units of Aspirants Squads do not themselves take up an Elite choice