nudibranch wrote: Those drawing have also been around for a long time. I think the 3rd ed. Imperial Guard book had them? Anyway, they are designed to show off proposed colour schemes in an understandable way. They're not designed to be pretty pictures, just illustrative tools.
They could be done a hell of a lot nicer though, like the FW books do.
The Guardian have long since past any sort of sanity with some of their reporters so this is hardly unexpected. I'm calling it now there will be a follow on piece by a certain reporter there.
nudibranch wrote: Those drawing have also been around for a long time. I think the 3rd ed. Imperial Guard book had them? Anyway, they are designed to show off proposed colour schemes in an understandable way. They're not designed to be pretty pictures, just illustrative tools.
They could be done a hell of a lot nicer though, like the FW books do.
Some of the books detailing Napoleonic uniforms are magnificent. Wish I could remember the name of the publisher, but always eyeing them up and stopping the wallet from opening.
nudibranch wrote: Those drawing have also been around for a long time. I think the 3rd ed. Imperial Guard book had them? Anyway, they are designed to show off proposed colour schemes in an understandable way. They're not designed to be pretty pictures, just illustrative tools.
They could be done a hell of a lot nicer though, like the FW books do.
Some of the books detailing Napoleonic uniforms are magnificent. Wish I could remember the name of the publisher, but always eyeing them up and stopping the wallet from opening.
Osprey? yeah they are a great set of stuff. And pleasant to deal with. the Heraldry books are GW's attempt at a version.
The pics are pretty standard fare I think. The Heraldry books that they released for Skaven and Empire look much the same. I bought the Skaven book and have 0 regrets on that.
streamdragon wrote: The pics are pretty standard fare I think. The Heraldry books that they released for Skaven and Empire look much the same. I bought the Skaven book and have 0 regrets on that.
nudibranch wrote: Those drawing have also been around for a long time. I think the 3rd ed. Imperial Guard book had them? Anyway, they are designed to show off proposed colour schemes in an understandable way. They're not designed to be pretty pictures, just illustrative tools.
They could be done a hell of a lot nicer though, like the FW books do.
Some of the books detailing Napoleonic uniforms are magnificent. Wish I could remember the name of the publisher, but always eyeing them up and stopping the wallet from opening.
Osprey? yeah they are a great set of stuff. And pleasant to deal with. the Heraldry books are GW's attempt at a version.
These ones, but Osprey are very good too. Wish there was a set for the British army in as much detail. Perry Miniature often come with a flier with extracts of this sort of book detailing different uniform choices
His Master's Voice wrote:I see people still cannot distinguish between "bad" and "I don't like it".
Dwarves turning into avatars of fire and stone may not be the most original idea ever, but it's hardly something objectively bad, given it opens up some very interesting visual opportunities in a highly visual medium that miniature wargaming is.
The fluff for those flame dwarfs sounds like a load of nonsense but the concept of Dwarves with burning beards has so much potential. I am very interested to see the models and hope the scale is somewhat similar to the existing Slayers as they could be a lovely proxy for a Brotherhood of Grimnir unit!
Vermis wrote: I see people still think that because someone likes an idea, that it can't be a bad idea.
Of course one can like a bad idea. You just failed to explain why fire elemental dwarves are a bad idea.
The inspiration for creating Dwarf slayers with firey beards obviously comes from the Slayer King Ungrim Ironfist becoming the Incarnate of Fire in End Times. However Ungrim died and the wind of Fire left him and went into Caradryan. Now in the continuation of the Warhammer world through AoS there are coincidentally going to be Dwarf Slayers whose bright red hair is now going to be on fire. It comes across as GW designers taking a concept (which I think is quite nice by the way) and deciding to awkwardly throw it in to the fluff and design of the background story. I think the models will look awesome and most people will ignore the unconvincing background story...
Vermis wrote: I see people still think that because someone likes an idea, that it can't be a bad idea.
Of course one can like a bad idea. You just failed to explain why fire elemental dwarves are a bad idea.
The inspiration for creating Dwarf slayers with firey beards obviously comes from the Slayer King Ungrim Ironfist becoming the Incarnate of Fire in End Times. However Ungrim died and the wind of Fire left him and went into Caradryan. Now in the continuation of the Warhammer world through AoS there are coincidentally going to be Dwarf Slayers whose bright red hair is now going to be on fire. It comes across as GW designers taking a concept (which I think is quite nice by the way) and deciding to awkwardly throw it in to the fluff and design of the background story. I think the models will look awesome and most people will ignore the unconvincing background story...
Ungrim Ironfist losing the Wind of Fire doesn't mean much considering that the Fyreslayers are dwelling in Aqshy, the Realm of Fire.
Looks like GW are pushing their PR stuff a bit more aggressively now. They probably invited the Guardian guys over to do a quick filler piece.
Yeah you beat me to it. When I read the article some of the parts may as well have been pulled from a GW PR release!
It really isnt. It mentions alternative games, specifically X wing by FFGand Mantics KOW and upcoming Warpath. That does not happen in a press release, they would be asking for their money back.
Its not an actual guardian article by one of its staff journalists, its by a community contributor. I assume its someone who plays games and writes articles on what interests them, some gets placed on the website if the editor thinks they are good and they get a bit of money.
Lt. Donomar StubbornBull wrote: I think the models will look awesome and most people will ignore the unconvincing background story...
Which is all that really matters, as far as GW is concerned. If the new models look good, and sell well as a result, one cannot begrudge GW for making that decision, or call it bad just because it does not align with one's expectations.
nudibranch wrote: Those drawing have also been around for a long time. I think the 3rd ed. Imperial Guard book had them? Anyway, they are designed to show off proposed colour schemes in an understandable way. They're not designed to be pretty pictures, just illustrative tools.
They could be done a hell of a lot nicer though, like the FW books do.
Some of the books detailing Napoleonic uniforms are magnificent. Wish I could remember the name of the publisher, but always eyeing them up and stopping the wallet from opening.
Osprey? yeah they are a great set of stuff. And pleasant to deal with. the Heraldry books are GW's attempt at a version.
These ones, but Osprey are very good too. Wish there was a set for the British army in as much detail. Perry Miniature often come with a flier with extracts of this sort of book detailing different uniform choices
His Master's Voice wrote:I see people still cannot distinguish between "bad" and "I don't like it".
I see people still think that because someone likes an idea, that it can't be a bad idea.
There are two different ideas at work here. The first is that a given thing is objectively good or bad. The second is that someone might like a given thing. These two concepts are not the same. For a start, 'Good' and 'Bad' are ultimately moral judgements, even if they have lost much of that flavour these days. Furthermore, I can say that I enjoyed Jupiter Ascending, without needing to defend it as 'objectively good', even as I can say that I find PP's models to look awful, without feeling the need to identify them as 'objectively bad'. The fact is that almost nothing can be described as 'bad' or 'good', really; all that you are saying is, in shortened language, 'I [dis]like it'. That's fine. Everyone has an opinion. But just because you [dis]like it does not mean that anyone else is wrong to either agree or disagree with you.
This may all seem to be labouring the point, but above you are conflating the two ideas, and suggesting that other people are wrong to like the firedwarves thing. Is this a 'bad' thing? No. You could certainly construct an argument to show that it is a bad thing from a certain perspective (e.g. 'in terms of originality, there is little to be found here; that makes them bad as an attempt to carve out a new and original niche') but simply saying, 'I don't like it, it is bad' is a conflation of two ideas in order to try and give your subjective opinion some kind of objective weight.
Who cares if someone else has done it before? Let them take it and run with it. I do not remember D&D Azers being slayers for hire. This excuse, "Simpsons did it", mentality is quite lame.
YouKnowsIt wrote: And I highly doubt many of the current design studio were around and gaming in 1983.
That was just their first appearance. They've been seen in the Spelljammer and Al-Qadim campaign settings and the Monster Manuals for v3, v3.5 and v4 which was published in 2008.
Sigmarshammer wrote: Who cares if someone else has done it before? Let them take it and run with it. I do not remember D&D Azers being slayers for hire. This excuse, "Simpsons did it", mentality is quite lame.
I, for one, am a strong advocate for taking extremely common concepts and introducing them to proper HIPS plastic wargaming. That people came up with centaurs thousands of years ago is a strength and not a weakness in my mind. The reason GW gets a ribbing about is is because of their xenophobia. We are not the ones who threw away the "Imperial Guard" and "Stormtroopers" because they were public domain names. We are not the ones who tried to steal "Space Marine" for our own exclusive use. These are things Games Workshop did, which is why we mock them for their transparent attempts to pretend that their dwarves are their own exclusive intellectual property.
Zwan1One wrote: Why would a race made of fire be interested in gold? What use would they have for it?
They obviously don't. They only care for Ur-Gold !!
That said, the whole bubbleverse overrun by Chaos for thousands of years doesn't strike me as a place with any kind of functioning economy where you can spend anything on markets, inns or whatever.
Sigmarshammer wrote: Who cares if someone else has done it before? Let them take it and run with it. I do not remember D&D Azers being slayers for hire. This excuse, "Simpsons did it", mentality is quite lame.
GW probably gets so much flak on this for what they said in the CHS court case, that their designers come up with everything in a vacuum with no outside inspiration. It's not the borrowing of designs that makes people made, it's that GW likes to (nowadays) pretend that they're super clever and original.
Zwan1One wrote: Why would a race made of fire be interested in gold? What use would they have for it?
They obviously don't. They only care for Ur-Gold !!
That said, the whole bubbleverse overrun by Chaos for thousands of years doesn't strike me as a place with any kind of functioning economy where you can spend anything on markets, inns or whatever.
ROFL true that doesn't seem the sort of place you would find a tavern for a beer
TrapdoorResident wrote:Yet, fire breathing, flying lizards are the stuff of pure logic?????
Who said anything about that?
angelofvengeance wrote:
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Slayers with beards and hair of fire is a laughably poor idea.
You're looking for reason and logic in a fantasy setting? Good luck with that.
Who said anything about that, either? But yeah, a little internal reason and logic helps in a fantasy setting. I'm sick to the back teeth of the "it's fantasy, anything goes!" argument because it's a lazy-arse handwave by thoughtless people, ignorant of the kind of thought and effort that can go into creating a consistent, structured setting and story, whether it has dragons and magic in it or not. If logic and reason mean nothing in fantasy, then hell, forget eagles, why didn't Frodo just click his heels, spin on the spot three times and call out "watchu talkin' about, Willis?" to get to Mount Doom? Why didn't Ned Stark leap up from the chopping block and say "Woops! Hahaha! The thing you didn't realise, of course, is that my neck is akshullee made entirely out of titanium." Why don't GW have paperslayers or dandelionslayers or jellyncustardslayers, rather than fireslayers?
Dwarves in particular have always been somewhat magical, somewhat superhuman creatures, since the days of norse myth, but still relateable, still somewhat human. Yes, you can have a race of dwarfs burned black by the flame that somehow issues from their faces instead of hair. You might even be able to work it into your setting's history, somehow. But that doesn't mean it's not a bad idea that makes your dwarfs even less human, less relateable, and yeah, even lacks sense. (How does the dwarf interact with anything if it's got flames constantly spouting out of it's head? How does it eat? Can it sit at a wooden table? How does it kiss it's sweetheart? What happens if it goes for a dip? How does it shave, if the old slayer oath is still around? What happens if it gets an itchy chin? Even dragons can hold it in until the right time.)
Fireslayers are another example of that flanderisation of Warhammer. GW, terrified of having something they know they can't legally own (or bully people away from), takes a strange, magical race and rather than make it deeper or better (better designed, better quality, better price), makes it... stranger. They're pushing this superficial effect in the hope of making teenagers think "this guy's on fire, that's so khewl and badass and metal!", while others think "pfft, really?"
Have an exalt sir. Fantasy works when it is extrapolated from reality. When it gets too far, it just stops being interesting to anything other than very small children. GW hasn't hit that line yet, but it seems like they are pushing that direction.
Have an exalt sir. Fantasy works when it is extrapolated from reality. When it gets too far, it just stops being interesting to anything other than very small children. GW hasn't hit that line yet, but it seems like they are pushing that direction.
Not sure I'm with you there, Michael Moorcock's multiverse is a long bus ride from reality but I find it endlessly fascinating!
Sigmarshammer wrote: Who cares if someone else has done it before? Let them take it and run with it. I do not remember D&D Azers being slayers for hire. This excuse, "Simpsons did it", mentality is quite lame.
I, for one, am a strong advocate for taking extremely common concepts and introducing them to proper HIPS plastic wargaming. That people came up with centaurs thousands of years ago is a strength and not a weakness in my mind. The reason GW gets a ribbing about is is because of their xenophobia. We are not the ones who threw away the "Imperial Guard" and "Stormtroopers" because they were public domain names. We are not the ones who tried to steal "Space Marine" for our own exclusive use. These are things Games Workshop did, which is why we mock them for their transparent attempts to pretend that their dwarves are their own exclusive intellectual property.
Wow, AoS is [really] growing on me. I guess I am pretty close to target demo, at a tender 17, but I was pretty annoyed to see the Old World go just as I was really getting into Fantasy, there comes a point in everyone's life that they realize that guys with halberds and quartered hose throwing down with psuedo-Arthurians and devil vikings are cooler than Tau sometimes. The Sigmarines looked kinda dumb at a first glance, but I'm in love now, headed to the ol' ebay.
I was really hoping that the Red Slayers would be the "normal" remnants of the Empire and Bretonnia, with a bit of extra AoS styling. Oh well. Any rumors on normal, non-Chaos worshipping humans as a supported army in the new setting?
As to where to draw the line for fantasy, it depends a lot on the logic, IMO. If the fyreslayers have burning beards because "derp-a-derp, FANTASY! RANDOM!" then yeah, that's silly. But if it plays into their culture, and there's some sort of explanation, or some sort of great mystery, that has potential to actually be cool. It's sort of like the yellow weakness Green Lantern had. In the Silver Age, it was a plot device to make it easier to give Hal Jordan a real challenge, and it worked, but it was pretty goofy, like when the Flash stopped GL with a yellow umbrella. However, when Geoff Johns did his well regarded run, and linked Yellow with Fear, which weakened the Willpower that powered GL rings, it actually made sense, and I could take it seriously. The weakness was basically the same, but how they handled it and justified it changed everything. So for now, I'm on the edge about the fyreslayers, we'll see how GW handels them. In any case, I'm not buying dwarf models. Dwarves are cool companions, but Humans=Elves>Hobbits>Dwarves>Dirt>Monsters, for me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the pictures show Slayers not on fire? Its possible that they only light on fire when they go into a berserk rage or somesuch. Or are those the Red Slayers and the Fyreslayers are a different race? Also, to be fair, the Azer-like qualities would make a lot of sense if they were from the Realm of Fire but I'm not sure they are.
That said, I agree with those giving GW a hard time, and with those saying Fantasy settings work because they have internal logic. GW is particularly bad about that, though I'm not yet sure if the Fyreslayers fall into that category.
Have an exalt sir. Fantasy works when it is extrapolated from reality. When it gets too far, it just stops being interesting to anything other than very small children. GW hasn't hit that line yet, but it seems like they are pushing that direction.
Not sure I'm with you there, Michael Moorcock's multiverse is a long bus ride from reality but I find it endlessly fascinating!
I can't comment on Moorcock as I am not too familiar with his work, but extrapolation from is not the same as being very close to. Usually the key point is having limits and "rules" that explain why the universe works why it does and not the actual crazy implications of a new feature of world. For instance, if the dwarves have beards that burn because they made a pact with a fire elemental from another plane that bonds with their bodies, preventing them from eating normal food/wearing cloths etc. and makes them an outcast in normal dwarf society, that's good. It explains why not every dwarf has a burning beard (if they don't) and shows some of the pros and cons of the issue and how it fits in the larger world. If they just say "because it is cool!" or similar hand wave, and then proceed to make many little errors in writing with the seemingly obvious limitations in mind ("No fire beards allowed in my store. You burned it, you bought it") then the world doesn't seem real and filled with consequences.
Basically, if your audience reads your work and thinks "Wait, so why doesn't X just use ubiquitous things Y and Z to solve their problem right now?" and there isn't a fairly clear answer, that audience is going to be unhappy and dislike the work. Younger audiences with less experience in how things work (less feel for complications and implications) tend not to be bothered by that as much.
Actually, the Wizard of Oz (movie) always did that for me. Even though it is pretty crazy and up front about being a dream land sort of deal, they weave some pretty good reasons for why things work the way they do. Why doesn't Dorothy use the slippers right away? Because the "good" witch wants her to deal with the "wicked" witch, and so she misleads her. However, the move is still pretty simplistic and flat, with no real feel of "this world actually works in interesting ways" and so isn't as interesting to me now as it was 25 years ago. I get the references to Great Depression USA better, but metaphor is not as fun as actual coherent world building for me.
Wehrkind wrote: Basically, if your audience reads your work and thinks "Wait, so why doesn't X just use ubiquitous things Y and Z to solve their problem right now?" and there isn't a fairly clear answer, that audience is going to be unhappy and dislike the work. Younger audiences with less experience in how things work (less feel for complications and implications) tend not to be bothered by that as much.
Motograter wrote: Dwarves on fire. Who cares where they got it from, who cares how silly it is. Its cool and fun and that is what matters
Some people, obviously. I do, because I prefer my world to be (at least passingly) internally consistent. A setting should have a sense of "reality" (that is, the reality of that world, not my actual reality) that makes things work. If you tell me that the Fire Dwarves want gold because they drink it for sustenance, fine. But if you tell me that they want to make pretty jewelry out of it while completely ignoring the fact that almost any amount of fire would melt all their shinies, it breaks the feeling and immersion of the world.
Am I loosing my mind? I remember posting about how I was sad I could only get shields with comets on them from the $200 Liberator bundle, and now I no longer see those models with the comets on their shields.. does anyone else remember seeing comets??
His Master's Voice wrote:I see people still cannot distinguish between "bad" and "I don't like it".
I see people still think that because someone likes an idea, that it can't be a bad idea.
There are two different ideas at work here. The first is that a given thing is objectively good or bad. The second is that someone might like a given thing. These two concepts are not the same. For a start, 'Good' and 'Bad' are ultimately moral judgements, even if they have lost much of that flavour these days. Furthermore, I can say that I enjoyed Jupiter Ascending
Looks like GW are pushing their PR stuff a bit more aggressively now. They probably invited the Guardian guys over to do a quick filler piece.
Yeah you beat me to it. When I read the article some of the parts may as well have been pulled from a GW PR release!
Really? I didn't get that impression at all. If anything I found the article to be raising more than a few of the issues concerning AoS, albeit not in as a confrontational and blunt manner as we regular forum commentators can afford.
the names of some forces have been changed, presumably so that they can be registered as trademarks
Troops in Age of Sigmar fight as loose units, much more akin to Warhammer 40,000, and the game seems streamlined for faster play – long-time players may disagree as to whether this is a positive development
. After a long period of success, the firm’s sales and profits slumped in 2014, as players soured on the company’s price increases and perceived heavy-handedness in shutting down people it claimed had infringed on its intellectual property.
Several of the conversion guides take quite a tongue-in-cheek tone, however. The rules include bonuses for players who sport impressive moustaches or who pretend to ride on horseback during play, and this suggests that they aren’t taking the whole thing entirely seriously.
If the Warhammer universe doesn’t interest you, there are lots of other fantasy and science fiction wargames that you might find more appealing..//.. X-wing, Starwars: Armada, Kings of War, Warpath, WarmaHordes, Gates of Antartes
YouKnowsIt wrote: And I highly doubt many of the current design studio were around and gaming in 1983.
That was just their first appearance. They've been seen in the Spelljammer and Al-Qadim campaign settings and the Monster Manuals for v3, v3.5 and v4 which was published in 2008.
Don't forget GW's design team lives in the UK, where D&D really hasn't been popular since the 80s.
Motograter wrote: Well F- me someone hates AoS by going to their local gw and smashing the window out with their car lol
So, Inspector Motograter, you know this to be because of AoS why exactly?
Its a joke. Calm your panties. Guy accidently crashed through the window but with all these whiners going on about AoS being rubbish and what not its rather funny
I picked up the Sigmarites today. There was some hotness in the box, for sure.
- The scupts are very nice. 5 of the shoulder pads are sculpted, 5 are blanks, and ONE is a fancy (really cool sculpted) shoulder pad. Man. I would pay an extra $10 for a full set of sculpted shoulders :(
- The legs are cool. Most are 2 part legs! I wonder if this will become the norm; I really like 2 part legs better than single part legs.
- The 2-handed weapons are very cool. The big hammer comes with both hands and arms attached to it!! Since these can only be posed one way anyhow, this is a great kit combination, because it makes it so that you don't have to line up the fidgety bits. They are actually set up exactly the way I glue everything together, and paint separately (to attach to the upper torso once painted), so I'm very happy with that.
- The 2-handed sword comes with the hands attached (but not the arms), which is still an improvement.
- you get 10 1h hammers (5 for each hand), 5 1h straight swords, and 5 1h lightning bolt swords.
- There are many extra heads, but the non-plumed heads all look very similar. The 2 plumed heads look just awesome.
- There are 5 normal shields, and one ornate shield that looks just kickass
Thanks for the info Talys. For the multi part legs, do they allow for different posing options, or just better looking detail? What's the benefit over single piece?
Talys wrote: I picked up the Sigmarites today. There was some hotness in the box, for sure.
Just to be clear, those are the Stormcast Eternals, right?
The hobbyist in me would very much like to build and paint some of them up. At $50 for the box of Eternals it feels like a better deal to just get the AoS starter, though.
Motograter wrote: Well F- me someone hates AoS by going to their local gw and smashing the window out with their car lol
So, Inspector Motograter, you know this to be because of AoS why exactly?
Its a joke. Calm your panties. Guy accidently crashed through the window but with all these whiners going on about AoS being rubbish and what not its rather funny
Yeah but AoS actualy is rubbish.
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Motograter wrote: Dwarves on fire. Who cares where they got it from, who cares how silly it is. Its cool and fun and that is what matters
His Master's Voice wrote:I see people still cannot distinguish between "bad" and "I don't like it".
I see people still think that because someone likes an idea, that it can't be a bad idea.
There are two different ideas at work here. The first is that a given thing is objectively good or bad. The second is that someone might like a given thing. These two concepts are not the same. For a start, 'Good' and 'Bad' are ultimately moral judgements, even if they have lost much of that flavour these days. Furthermore, I can say that I enjoyed Jupiter Ascending
I stopped reading right there.
Hahaha this exactly. Way to prove your own post wrong lol.
Motograter wrote: Well F- me someone hates AoS by going to their local gw and smashing the window out with their car lol
So, Inspector Motograter, you know this to be because of AoS why exactly?
Its a joke. Calm your panties. Guy accidently crashed through the window but with all these whiners going on about AoS being rubbish and what not its rather funny
Yeah but AoS actualy is rubbish.
One man's trash is another's treasure and all that.
Motograter wrote: Well F- me someone hates AoS by going to their local gw and smashing the window out with their car lol
So, Inspector Motograter, you know this to be because of AoS why exactly?
Its a joke. Calm your panties. Guy accidently crashed through the window but with all these whiners going on about AoS being rubbish and what not its rather funny
Yeah but AoS actualy is rubbish.
One man's trash is another's treasure and all that.
Sure, nothing wrong with enjoying it. I just go with the tone set by the poster I'm reaponding to.
Funny bottom line is that it's easier to prove that it's rubbish than to prove that it's not and in the end we have whiners whining about whiners whining about the game with the former being completly baseless and pointless.
Plumbumbarum wrote: Funny bottom line is that it's easier to prove that it's rubbish than to prove that it's not...
I 'unno. Seems fairly subjective to me so proving anything might be kind of difficult.
As someone that's never been into Warhammer Fantasy I'm fairly detached from the whole thing except that I like the models. Always more a hobbyist than anything.
Sadly, I believe it. However, what really bothers me is why there are ancient ruins in a world that's only 200 years old? I mean, sure there *could* be leftovers, but the Warhammer world kinda went kablooey. The inlays in the first looks like early Brets vs undead. EDIT: Those aren't Brets, those are Unbrogeons, or whatever Sigmar's non Frakish tribes were called. Just noticed the Twin Tailed Comet.
So there are ruins of a temple to Sigmar, a really big a fancy one built in a 200 year period since the baddies pulled a Final Fantasy VI. Eh
AoS really shaping up to be a perfect case study to use in business school to show what a company shouldn't do.
- Scrapping one of the most recognisable IP in the hobby.
- Replacing it with a game in which the rules seems to have been written on the corner of the table, during lunch break ( the fact that their is no mechanism to balance opposing forces is unacceptable imo)
- Putting joke rules for old units, which only served to infuriate some of it's more faithfull customer.
- Tthe release schedule is so slow and boring that it seems to drain all the excitement that could have been created (Week 3 and the only thing we get is a clampack character and a few ruins. At this rate, we'll have to wait till september before we see anything else tha sigmarines).
- And not to mention the excruciating prices
I was willing to give GW chance when we first heard of the warhammer reboot, but it really seems like it will be nearly as big a fiasco as age of ragnarok was.
3AcresAndATau wrote: Sadly, I believe it. However, what really bothers me is why there are ancient ruins in a world that's only 200 years old? I mean, sure there *could* be leftovers, but the Warhammer world kinda went kablooey. The inlays in the first looks like early Brets vs undead. EDIT: Those aren't Brets, those are Unbrogeons, or whatever Sigmar's non Frakish tribes were called. Just noticed the Twin Tailed Comet.
So there are ruins of a temple to Sigmar, a really big a fancy one built in a 200 year period since the baddies pulled a Final Fantasy VI. Eh
I have yet to read anything that gave a specific date but most of the story talks about there being a few thousand years between the big bang and the coming of chaos and a few hundred years between sigmar leaving and chaos coming. In the few thousand years before chaos great civilisations were built under the great alliance and then chaos came and jumped on every ones sand castles. Definitely think in a war ravaged world where previously a great civilisation stood that ruins will definitely be present.
jaceimba wrote: Don't know if anyone notice the change , but gw seems to realise that their liberator bundle got no shield with comet and changed the picture.
$400, for twenty models...
...GeeDub has lost their minds. $400 used to be able to buy me about 4 army boxes, which would give me a good chunk of troops, elites, etc. and if I were lucky, I could've gotten a monster in the box too. Now, $400 buys twenty models...
jaceimba wrote: Don't know if anyone notice the change , but gw seems to realise that their liberator bundle got no shield with comet and changed the picture.
$400, for twenty models...
...GeeDub has lost their minds. $400 used to be able to buy me about 4 army boxes, which would give me a good chunk of troops, elites, etc. and if I were lucky, I could've gotten a monster in the box too. Now, $400 buys twenty models...
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
I'm all for bashing GW's pricing, but there are countries other than the USA which use dollars The USD price is $200. $400 is the NZD price.
Zatsuku wrote: That's Australian prices though, $200 in the US. Still $10 a mini, but they are at least Terminator sized.
You know, Australia and New Zealand really aren't the same place.
Zatsuku wrote: That's Australian prices though, $200 in the US. Still $10 a mini, but they are at least Terminator sized.
You know, Australia and New Zealand really aren't the same place.
Sorry, I didn't actually check, I just assumed because I know Australia has terrible GW prices.
PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:Even still, that's far too much money for a "core unit" model, which you kinda need the most of.
Spacewolfoddballz wrote:
That price is crazy i think terminators are over priced as it is.. well all of GW is anymore. Turn off for me.
Some of the terrain posted above look ok... but not my cup of tea.
I mean, Age of Sigmar doesn't really seem like a game where you can or should play with really large armies, this single $200 purchase would probably give you more than enough of them to use, in fact watching battle reports, 20 is too many to field IMO. Not that I don't think they are expensive, they are, but so is all GW stuff.
3AcresAndATau wrote: Sadly, I believe it. However, what really bothers me is why there are ancient ruins in a world that's only 200 years old? I mean, sure there *could* be leftovers, but the Warhammer world kinda went kablooey. The inlays in the first looks like early Brets vs undead. EDIT: Those aren't Brets, those are Unbrogeons, or whatever Sigmar's non Frakish tribes were called. Just noticed the Twin Tailed Comet.
So there are ruins of a temple to Sigmar, a really big a fancy one built in a 200 year period since the baddies pulled a Final Fantasy VI. Eh
I have yet to read anything that gave a specific date but most of the story talks about there being a few thousand years between the big bang and the coming of chaos and a few hundred years between sigmar leaving and chaos coming. In the few thousand years before chaos great civilisations were built under the great alliance and then chaos came and jumped on every ones sand castles. Definitely think in a war ravaged world where previously a great civilisation stood that ruins will definitely be present.
That makes more sense, thanks. I ebay'd a fluff book, it hasn't shown up yet, so I was going mainly off rumors from Bell of Lost Souls and TMP, not the best, but a step above Naftka. I really only followed End Times closely through the Fall of Altdorf too, so my fluff base for current lore is a little lacking.
As to pricing, yeah, I got sticker shock when I saw the Liberators as well, blessed are the resellers, for theirs are the broken up starter sets. I draw the line at 3 bucks per a trooper in 28mm, I make exceptions for command models and cavalry. That being said, I don't expect Perry or Victrix prices from GW, I'm more than happy to pay something of a premium for knowing my minis were made in a country with decent labor laws, I'd rather put up with current prices than buy Chinese. The IP is worth something for me too. That being said, GW could do with something of a price cut, my parents always stressed the difference between profit and extortionate pricing, and GW definitely crosses that line oftentimes.
And yes, the Liberator box does have over a hundred weapons, which would be great if there were more than 5 Liberators to put them on. Sure, they're useful for conversions, but that would imply one has minis suitable for conversion with, and then the weapon they had goes unused, creating a vicious bitz-box cycle. Way I see it, yes, GW does give you gobs of bits, but if you like a less cluttered model, or don't buy thousands of second hand torsos, those extra pieces are of no value. I'd rather have 6 or 7 Liberators and 12-ish weapons at closer to $21 (realistically $32, but hey, if we're dreaming here). Starter models are plenty, and I ordered some, but the way I see it, GW lost sales with me. Instead of buying two or three new Liberator boxes and some elites or HQ choice types to go with, spending maybe $80 or $90, as I would have at a better price point/kit design, I got 5 Liberators and a Relicator on ebay, for like $20, off which GW made a few bucks out of the profit off the starter kit the reseller bought, and I won't be making many additions to that lil ol' warband. I might have rounded out my collection of Stormcast further after finishing the initial theoretical army. I won't pretend to be an expert on economics, but I try to keep myself learned on the simple principles, way I see it everyone should be able to hold polite discourse on practical subjects without a degree. The point in this case being, GW's product commands a premium, but it's too far above what it should be for me to consider purchasing, so I buy less and do so on the "gray market", rather than through GW or its retailers, so we both lose, I don't get the product, they don't get my money.
Motograter wrote: Well F- me someone hates AoS by going to their local gw and smashing the window out with their car lol
So, Inspector Motograter, you know this to be because of AoS why exactly?
Its a joke. Calm your panties. Guy accidently crashed through the window but with all these whiners going on about AoS being rubbish and what not its rather funny
Yeah but AoS actualy is rubbish.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Motograter wrote: Dwarves on fire. Who cares where they got it from, who cares how silly it is. Its cool and fun and that is what matters
His Master's Voice wrote:I see people still cannot distinguish between "bad" and "I don't like it".
I see people still think that because someone likes an idea, that it can't be a bad idea.
There are two different ideas at work here. The first is that a given thing is objectively good or bad. The second is that someone might like a given thing. These two concepts are not the same. For a start, 'Good' and 'Bad' are ultimately moral judgements, even if they have lost much of that flavour these days. Furthermore, I can say that I enjoyed Jupiter Ascending
I stopped reading right there.
Hahaha this exactly. Way to prove your own post wrong lol.
Thanks for posting the link . Looking at the Warpfire thrower rules it states "When firing a Warpfire Thrower, pick a unit within range; it suffers D3 mortal wounds"!
Seriously weird not having to roll to hit, randomise or anything; it just auto hits when within range
Thanks for posting the link . Looking at the Warpfire thrower rules it states "When firing a Warpfire Thrower, pick a unit within range; it suffers D3 mortal wounds"!
Seriously weird not having to roll to hit, randomise or anything; it just auto hits when within range
Well the game is designed to be extremely simple... can't get too over complicated with randomization or rolling.
The Warpfire throwers was a template weapon back in 8th, wasn't it? Now you're hitting less models (still automatically) but they are automatically wounded with no saves allowed.
Also, you don't have to roll To-Hit with Mortal Wounds anyway, iirc.
- The scupts are very nice. 5 of the shoulder pads are sculpted, 5 are blanks, and ONE is a fancy (really cool sculpted) shoulder pad. Man. I would pay an extra $10 for a full set of sculpted shoulders :(
Motograter wrote: Well F- me someone hates AoS by going to their local gw and smashing the window out with their car lol
Maybe they saw the price of the new Liberators and thought it was easier than robbing a jewelry store.
Perhaps but they aren't all that badly priced
LOL, really? This mentality is exactly why GW gets away with gouging it's customer base.
Lol really. Well only if you feel you're being gouged or actually still buying from gw direct which would be your own fault for not using online discounters
Motograter wrote: Well F- me someone hates AoS by going to their local gw and smashing the window out with their car lol
So, Inspector Motograter, you know this to be because of AoS why exactly?
Its a joke. Calm your panties. Guy accidently crashed through the window but with all these whiners going on about AoS being rubbish and what not its rather funny
Yeah but AoS actualy is rubbish.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Motograter wrote: Dwarves on fire. Who cares where they got it from, who cares how silly it is. Its cool and fun and that is what matters
His Master's Voice wrote:I see people still cannot distinguish between "bad" and "I don't like it".
I see people still think that because someone likes an idea, that it can't be a bad idea.
There are two different ideas at work here. The first is that a given thing is objectively good or bad. The second is that someone might like a given thing. These two concepts are not the same. For a start, 'Good' and 'Bad' are ultimately moral judgements, even if they have lost much of that flavour these days. Furthermore, I can say that I enjoyed Jupiter Ascending
I stopped reading right there.
Hahaha this exactly. Way to prove your own post wrong lol.
What?
I agreed with you and laughed at the way the other poster ranted about nothing being objective then used an example of a movie so bad it borders on platonic bad heh.
Watched two AoS games today. Very silly. So simplistic. One guy won after his army was wiped out because the creature that killed the army was summoned and don't count towards victory conditions... so... wait... what?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Watched two AoS games today. Very silly. So simplistic. One guy won after his army was wiped out because the creature that killed the army was summoned and don't count towards victory conditions... so... wait... what?
So silly.
Wait, what? What were the victory conditions they were playing with?
Motograter wrote: Well F- me someone hates AoS by going to their local gw and smashing the window out with their car lol
Maybe they saw the price of the new Liberators and thought it was easier than robbing a jewelry store.
Perhaps but they aren't all that badly priced
LOL, really? This mentality is exactly why GW gets away with gouging it's customer base.
Lol really. Well only if you feel you're being gouged or actually still buying from gw direct which would be your own fault for not using online discounters
What kind of an excuse is this? It shouldn't be a ridiculous expectation for the goods you buy to be reasonably priced when buying from the source :/ The fact remains is that even with discounters, you're still paying $7-9 for basic foot sloggers.
Also, way to place the blame on the customer. "It's your fault if you didn't know about cheap online retailers that have a limited presence on the internet" Honestly, whenever I see a comment like this it makes me mad because it's always written in a tone that mocks those who may not be aware of these options: "I know all about these discount retailers but I won't mention any specific company because it's more important that I act all smug instead of trying to provide help to someone"
So who are these secret retailers? Care to actually provide a company name or link or would you rather continue on with "your fault for buying from the one option that's been presented to you" bit?
H.B.M.C. wrote: One guy won after his army was wiped out because the creature that killed the army was summoned and don't count towards victory conditions... so... wait... what?
As it should be! His opponent made a terrible pact with unspeakable depraved powers so that he may have slaughtered his foe - but lost not only his soul but also the game!
3AcresAndATau wrote: Sadly, I believe it. However, what really bothers me is why there are ancient ruins in a world that's only 200 years old? I mean, sure there *could* be leftovers, but the Warhammer world kinda went kablooey. The inlays in the first looks like early Brets vs undead. EDIT: Those aren't Brets, those are Unbrogeons, or whatever Sigmar's non Frakish tribes were called. Just noticed the Twin Tailed Comet.
So there are ruins of a temple to Sigmar, a really big a fancy one built in a 200 year period since the baddies pulled a Final Fantasy VI. Eh
I have yet to read anything that gave a specific date but most of the story talks about there being a few thousand years between the big bang and the coming of chaos and a few hundred years between sigmar leaving and chaos coming. In the few thousand years before chaos great civilisations were built under the great alliance and then chaos came and jumped on every ones sand castles. Definitely think in a war ravaged world where previously a great civilisation stood that ruins will definitely be present.
That makes more sense, thanks. I ebay'd a fluff book, it hasn't shown up yet, so I was going mainly off rumors from Bell of Lost Souls and TMP, not the best, but a step above Naftka. I really only followed End Times closely through the Fall of Altdorf too, so my fluff base for current lore is a little lacking.
As to pricing, yeah, I got sticker shock when I saw the Liberators as well, blessed are the resellers, for theirs are the broken up starter sets. I draw the line at 3 bucks per a trooper in 28mm, I make exceptions for command models and cavalry. That being said, I don't expect Perry or Victrix prices from GW, I'm more than happy to pay something of a premium for knowing my minis were made in a country with decent labor laws, I'd rather put up with current prices than buy Chinese. The IP is worth something for me too. That being said, GW could do with something of a price cut, my parents always stressed the difference between profit and extortionate pricing, and GW definitely crosses that line oftentimes.
And yes, the Liberator box does have over a hundred weapons, which would be great if there were more than 5 Liberators to put them on. Sure, they're useful for conversions, but that would imply one has minis suitable for conversion with, and then the weapon they had goes unused, creating a vicious bitz-box cycle. Way I see it, yes, GW does give you gobs of bits, but if you like a less cluttered model, or don't buy thousands of second hand torsos, those extra pieces are of no value. I'd rather have 6 or 7 Liberators and 12-ish weapons at closer to $21 (realistically $32, but hey, if we're dreaming here). Starter models are plenty, and I ordered some, but the way I see it, GW lost sales with me. Instead of buying two or three new Liberator boxes and some elites or HQ choice types to go with, spending maybe $80 or $90, as I would have at a better price point/kit design, I got 5 Liberators and a Relicator on ebay, for like $20, off which GW made a few bucks out of the profit off the starter kit the reseller bought, and I won't be making many additions to that lil ol' warband. I might have rounded out my collection of Stormcast further after finishing the initial theoretical army. I won't pretend to be an expert on economics, but I try to keep myself learned on the simple principles, way I see it everyone should be able to hold polite discourse on practical subjects without a degree. The point in this case being, GW's product commands a premium, but it's too far above what it should be for me to consider purchasing, so I buy less and do so on the "gray market", rather than through GW or its retailers, so we both lose, I don't get the product, they don't get my money.
So you pay fifty dollars for power maces for your space marines, amd some fantasy models too? :p
Unless you want to use the maces on your sigma rites, then...
H.B.M.C. wrote: Watched two AoS games today. Very silly. So simplistic. One guy won after his army was wiped out because the creature that killed the army was summoned and don't count towards victory conditions... so... wait... what?
So silly.
Did the players have fun? Or was it lame? Silly games like that can sometimes provide a fun narrative.
At this point, how is a game this divisive a good thing?
I'm just sitting here is awe of how... terribly executed this one was. If there was a worse way to do it, I think at this point GW would have invented it, packaged it, and sold the rights to the movie.
As to pricing, yeah, I got sticker shock when I saw the Liberators as well, blessed are the resellers, for theirs are the broken up starter sets. I draw the line at 3 bucks per a trooper in 28mm, I make exceptions for command models and cavalry. That being said, I don't expect Perry or Victrix prices from GW, I'm more than happy to pay something of a premium for knowing my minis were made in a country with decent labor laws, I'd rather put up with current prices than buy Chinese.
Except Perrys (and I'm pretty sure Victrix) are also made in England... (it even says on the sprues)
As to pricing, yeah, I got sticker shock when I saw the Liberators as well, blessed are the resellers, for theirs are the broken up starter sets. I draw the line at 3 bucks per a trooper in 28mm, I make exceptions for command models and cavalry. That being said, I don't expect Perry or Victrix prices from GW, I'm more than happy to pay something of a premium for knowing my minis were made in a country with decent labor laws, I'd rather put up with current prices than buy Chinese.
Except Perrys (and I'm pretty sure Victrix) are also made in England... (it even says on the sprues)
Did not know that, not a big buyer for the periods those guys do kits for. I just figured that they were a good example of well received but inexpensive figures, as compared to GW's well made, but way overpriced models. Would never hold my breath on dollar terminators, a company like GW does have a good deal of overhead, and has to turn enough profit to give their shareholders something and I won't resent them for that. That being said, that the Perry figures can be made in the UK and cost what they do is another strike against Games Workshop's pricing strategy. Thanks for the info :-)
I actually really like those terrain rules, the wall spirits sorta remind me of the gate to the lost city in Indiana Jones and the Hollow Earth (solid pulp reading, by all counts), where all those who had failed to enter before were sucked into the wall and attacked anyone else who tried to come in, dragging them into the walls to become more skeleton guardians. With a scratchbuilt version, I'm feeling some serious scenario potential. A lone bullwhip wielding witch hunter, a expert on Morr, and a young empire engineer chased by Khornates toward a wall spawning undead, and forced to hold an objective?
Motograter wrote: Well F- me someone hates AoS by going to their local gw and smashing the window out with their car lol
Maybe they saw the price of the new Liberators and thought it was easier than robbing a jewelry store.
Perhaps but they aren't all that badly priced
LOL, really? This mentality is exactly why GW gets away with gouging it's customer base.
Lol really. Well only if you feel you're being gouged or actually still buying from gw direct which would be your own fault for not using online discounters
What kind of an excuse is this? It shouldn't be a ridiculous expectation for the goods you buy to be reasonably priced when buying from the source :/ The fact remains is that even with discounters, you're still paying $7-9 for basic foot sloggers.
Also, way to place the blame on the customer. "It's your fault if you didn't know about cheap online retailers that have a limited presence on the internet" Honestly, whenever I see a comment like this it makes me mad because it's always written in a tone that mocks those who may not be aware of these options: "I know all about these discount retailers but I won't mention any specific company because it's more important that I act all smug instead of trying to provide help to someone"
So who are these secret retailers? Care to actually provide a company name or link or would you rather continue on with "your fault for buying from the one option that's been presented to you" bit?
Exactly! You nailed it. I find it funny the excuses fanboys will go to, to justify GW's nonsense. Yes they make nice models. But at $12CDN a piece, for "troops"? That borders on lunacy, seeing that GW "realized" the big dollar buy in for the old WFB game. I keep trying to like AOS, I really do. But between the lack of balance, poorly written rules and new levels of pricing insanity, it makes me wonder what they're smoking...
NAVARRO wrote: What are those huge stone creatures on the background of the savage orc picture?
Man the SIgmarites are growing on me each time I look at them
They look like big fenbeast from the albion campaign.
Would be nice if they brought in some old stuff like fenbeasts and fimir in the game. The foul Fimir would be great in a more chaotic setting of warhammer.
Considering they scrapped Slaanesh I don't think the Fimir's erm... origin will fly to well in the more straightforward and younger audience oriented AoS.
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Who wants to buy multiple AUD$65 characters to make a unit of these guys?
Spoiler:
Also him:
Waaait. Limbs bent and held awkwardly at the elbow and knee, and a big 'ol rubbery wrinkle at the back of the knee that doesn't show up on animals apparently the same size and shape, even when their knees are folded even tighter?
Checked today the AOS miniatures in person at a GW store, all of them were on display and I must say that the contents of the starter is quite a good value for your money. There are plenty of miniatures there and quite chunky too.
The quality of the plastics is quite impressive and much better IRL, the online pictures do not do these models any justice... with that said its not all just good news since they confirmed my main concern with the starter sprue design, some of the sigmarites shoulder pads are indeed divided in middle.
Talked with the store manager and he confirmed that soon enough there will be bases for sale in case you want to rebase your current WFB armies... ( I was worried about the availability of the cavalary oval bases ), he seemed to have a quick answer to my query as if its not the first time he has heard it and had a definitive answer to it.
All in all a very nice box and well priced for what you get in there.
Everyone at the store were painting AOS minis and on the 15 minutes that I was there he was selling some AOS stuff too. DId I buy some? as tempting as I was I ended up just picking up some METAL ratling snipers i had ordered
I think AOS has the potential to be something special for GW, lets see how it unfolds.
NAVARRO wrote: Checked today the AOS miniatures in person at a GW store, all of them were on display and I must say that the contents of the starter is quite a good value for your money. There are plenty of miniatures there and quite chunky too.
The quality of the plastics is quite impressive and much better IRL, the online pictures do not do these models any justice... with that said its not all just good news since they confirmed my main concern with the starter sprue design, some of the sigmarites shoulder pads are indeed divided in middle.
Talked with the store manager and he confirmed that soon enough there will be bases for sale in case you want to rebase your current WFB armies... ( I was worried about the availability of the cavalary oval bases ), he seemed to have a quick answer to my query as if its not the first time he has heard it and had a definitive answer to it.
All in all a very nice box and well priced for what you get in there.
Everyone at the store were painting AOS minis and on the 15 minutes that I was there he was selling some AOS stuff too. DId I buy some? as tempting as I was I ended up just picking up some METAL ratling snipers i had ordered
I think AOS has the potential to be something special for GW, lets see how it unfolds.
Maybe model wise. But if you go by first impressions what I saw in a GW store was like they allowed some kid who just dipped it in gold paint and splashed a bit of Red on for chaos and Turquoise for the Sigmarines.
It didn't inspire me at all.
The art looks nice but GW art can be great or very copy and paste.
NAVARRO wrote: Checked today the AOS miniatures in person at a GW store, all of them were on display and I must say that the contents of the starter is quite a good value for your money. There are plenty of miniatures there and quite chunky too.
The quality of the plastics is quite impressive and much better IRL, the online pictures do not do these models any justice... with that said its not all just good news since they confirmed my main concern with the starter sprue design, some of the sigmarites shoulder pads are indeed divided in middle.
Talked with the store manager and he confirmed that soon enough there will be bases for sale in case you want to rebase your current WFB armies... ( I was worried about the availability of the cavalary oval bases ), he seemed to have a quick answer to my query as if its not the first time he has heard it and had a definitive answer to it.
All in all a very nice box and well priced for what you get in there.
Everyone at the store were painting AOS minis and on the 15 minutes that I was there he was selling some AOS stuff too. DId I buy some? as tempting as I was I ended up just picking up some METAL ratling snipers i had ordered
I think AOS has the potential to be something special for GW, lets see how it unfolds.
Maybe model wise. But if you go by first impressions what I saw in a GW store was like they allowed some kid who just dipped it in gold paint and splashed a bit of Red on for chaos and Turquoise for the Sigmarines.
It didn't inspire me at all.
The art looks nice but GW art can be great or very copy and paste.
On the front of the store was the box and all the content assembled on display in bare plastics and inside the store on the actual display cabinet some painted examples. I prefer to see the bare bones in plastic so I can judge without being worried with freehands or obscured flaws ( like the shoulderpads thing.) So yes looking at all the content assembled gave me lots of ideas for paint schemes and modeling projects. AOS box is quite a nice hobby project since you get plenty of kits at a good price and you can either convert them to many other personal projects or just run with it for a pure AOS project.
I was not a fan at all of sigmarites but the plastics are quite impressive and with a proper non gold approach these could be quite cool to paint. Khorne was top stuff and the big beast still needs some trimming of the crappy bits. Its a good box set.
NAVARRO wrote: Talked with the store manager and he confirmed that soon enough there will be bases for sale in case you want to rebase your current WFB armies...
Did he happen to mention if they will go back to the cheaper "bag full of bases" they did a while back? Currently you get 10 regular sized bases for almost $5. I wouldn't mind rebasing my old stuff but since i have 2 horde armies it'll be pretty expensive at those prices. I know there's lots of companies making bases but I'd like mine to all match
NAVARRO wrote: Checked today the AOS miniatures in person at a GW store, all of them were on display and I must say that the contents of the starter is quite a good value for your money. There are plenty of miniatures there and quite chunky too.
The quality of the plastics is quite impressive and much better IRL, the online pictures do not do these models any justice... with that said its not all just good news since they confirmed my main concern with the starter sprue design, some of the sigmarites shoulder pads are indeed divided in middle.
Talked with the store manager and he confirmed that soon enough there will be bases for sale in case you want to rebase your current WFB armies... ( I was worried about the availability of the cavalary oval bases ), he seemed to have a quick answer to my query as if its not the first time he has heard it and had a definitive answer to it.
All in all a very nice box and well priced for what you get in there.
Everyone at the store were painting AOS minis and on the 15 minutes that I was there he was selling some AOS stuff too. DId I buy some? as tempting as I was I ended up just picking up some METAL ratling snipers i had ordered
I think AOS has the potential to be something special for GW, lets see how it unfolds.
Maybe model wise. But if you go by first impressions what I saw in a GW store was like they allowed some kid who just dipped it in gold paint and splashed a bit of Red on for chaos and Turquoise for the Sigmarines.
It didn't inspire me at all.
The art looks nice but GW art can be great or very copy and paste.
On the front of the store was the box and all the content assembled on display in bare plastics and inside the store on the actual display cabinet some painted examples. I prefer to see the bare bones in plastic so I can judge without being worried with freehands or obscured flaws ( like the shoulderpads thing.) So yes looking at all the content assembled gave me lots of ideas for paint schemes and modeling projects. AOS box is quite a nice hobby project since you get plenty of kits at a good price and you can either convert them to many other personal projects or just run with it for a pure AOS project.
I was not a fan at all of sigmarites but the plastics are quite impressive and with a proper non gold approach these could be quite cool to paint. Khorne was top stuff and the big beast still needs some trimming of the crappy bits. Its a good box set.
If you are interested in both of those armies it's a good set no denying that.
Did he happen to mention if they will go back to the cheaper "bag full of bases" they did a while back? Currently you get 10 regular sized bases for almost $5. I wouldn't mind rebasing my old stuff but since i have 2 horde armies it'll be pretty expensive at those prices. I know there's lots of companies making bases but I'd like mine to all match
I would try Proxie Models on Ebay. He is a one-man plastic injection molding garage buisness, and sells for pretty good prices.
Here's a bag of 24x 32mm bases for $4.50+ very cheap shipping:
NAVARRO wrote: Talked with the store manager and he confirmed that soon enough there will be bases for sale in case you want to rebase your current WFB armies...
Did he happen to mention if they will go back to the cheaper "bag full of bases" they did a while back? Currently you get 10 regular sized bases for almost $5. I wouldn't mind rebasing my old stuff but since i have 2 horde armies it'll be pretty expensive at those prices. I know there's lots of companies making bases but I'd like mine to all match
I have goblins and chaos mate so Yes I know your pain about spending fortunes on bases alone. He only mentioned that there will be packs of those oval bases available soon so I assumed that they would be for sale in the traditional bundles of 10 or 5 ( like the new 32mm ones). So I do not have more details on that... I would suspect that cheap bundles at GW are not your best bet though... but hey, they did release free rules so lets keep an eye for it since we never know what GW is up to these days, which makes things much more interesting.
Yknow after the rules it feels fairly petty, but one of my biggest turn-offs regarding Age of Sigmarine are the helmets of the Sigmarines. They just look so.... dull and boring with the death masks. It's like an army of Blood Angels with those sanguinary guard helmets and no alternative. When creating a fantasy version of Space Marines GW appears to have forgotten that Space Marines are popular for their customization.
Looking at the sprues, these Sigmarines are anything but customizable.
Has anyone come close, at all, to a workable tournament set of rules? So far all I hear is "use some combination of wounds and attacks for points values, summoning still broken as can be".
I can push little green army men across a board and come up with a scenario. I was looking for a functioning game ouf of this.
I've seen a couple of things that seem workable. But I think most people are still really in the testing phase. I'll think you'll see an actual tournament set of rules here in the next month or so as people get enough games in.
Overall the game is actually a lot of fun and very solid. And I feel people claiming it comes down to luck or that it always turns into a scrum in the middle and there aren't tactics are wrong.
I know we've got 2 slow-grow/escalation leagues starting up locally which is more Fantasy that I've seen played in the 5 years since I moved to Minnesota. So I'm hopeful right now
Hulksmash wrote: The app is up for the IPAD. Android is still pending.
The App is quite nice. A little buggy (selecting a faction from the warscrolls page after already selecting a previous faction for example), and the 'Rules' part isn't loading, but the 'my battle' section is very nice and should speed up games nicely.
(Still want printed card warscrolls though)
Has anyone got the big fluff book yet? I was expecting more leaks from it... I'm interested in the fluff of the Free Peoples and what the army selection for scenarios is like.
bubber wrote: is there any use of the 'key words' section at the bottom of each scroll?
Yeah, special rules might impact all modelsq with a certain keyword. Also, if you want to place restrictions on your game (or compare armies) you can go, you have 5 warmachines and I have 7.
Hulksmash wrote: The app is up for the IPAD. Android is still pending.
The App is quite nice. A little buggy (selecting a faction from the warscrolls page after already selecting a previous faction for example), and the 'Rules' part isn't loading, but the 'my battle' section is very nice and should speed up games nicely.
(Still want printed card warscrolls though)
Has anyone got the big fluff book yet? I was expecting more leaks from it... I'm interested in the fluff of the Free Peoples and what the army selection for scenarios is like.
The fluff book is pretty nice! Quite liking that the Orcs decide to help Sigmar, but then get bored and just set about fighting everyone lol.
Hulksmash wrote: The app is up for the IPAD. Android is still pending.
The App is quite nice. A little buggy (selecting a faction from the warscrolls page after already selecting a previous faction for example), and the 'Rules' part isn't loading, but the 'my battle' section is very nice and should speed up games nicely.
(Still want printed card warscrolls though)
Has anyone got the big fluff book yet? I was expecting more leaks from it... I'm interested in the fluff of the Free Peoples and what the army selection for scenarios is like.
The fluff book is pretty nice! Quite liking that the Orcs decide to help Sigmar, but then get bored and just set about fighting everyone lol.
Ugh, really? What else, did the Dwarfs and Elves have a lovely tea party and make up, but then one of the Elves refused to pass the sugar cubes when asked so they fell out again?
Wyzilla wrote: Yknow after the rules it feels fairly petty, but one of my biggest turn-offs regarding Age of Sigmarine are the helmets of the Sigmarines. They just look so.... dull and boring with the death masks. It's like an army of Blood Angels with those sanguinary guard helmets and no alternative. When creating a fantasy version of Space Marines GW appears to have forgotten that Space Marines are popular for their customization.
Looking at the sprues, these Sigmarines are anything but customizable.
The heads for most of the liberators and the relict or are individual parts that are the same size as space marine necks. I gave my relict or a DA hooded head.
Hulksmash wrote: Overall the game is actually a lot of fun and very solid. And I feel people claiming it comes down to luck or that it always turns into a scrum in the middle and there aren't tactics are wrong.
I respect your opinion but fail to see where would this tactics come from. All I see is some shoot out of cc shenaningans and special rules interactions but imo the former is very immersion breaking and weird and the latter is done better in many other rulesets, the most obvious example being Warmachine. The rest of the system is extremly barebone, ofc you have to properly divide the workload for attacks or objectives or choose right paper for the rock but that's basic point and click rts-ish stuff that every other game out there does as well. The difference would be that almost all games out there do skirmish stuff better and all unit based games do units stuff better while requiring much less houseruling, gentleman's agreement, common decency, mutual understanding, consciousness and love.
There are some tactics ofc, as long as there's movement, charge bonus, terrain, unit types etc you always have tactics. They seem to be a side effect here not a designers effort though and people will hit a skill ceiling fast.
Hulksmash wrote: Overall the game is actually a lot of fun and very solid. And I feel people claiming it comes down to luck or that it always turns into a scrum in the middle and there aren't tactics are wrong.
I respect your opinion but fail to see where would this tactics come from. All I see is some shoot out of cc shenaningans and special rules interactions but imo the former is very immersion breaking and weird and the latter is done better in many other rulesets, the most obvious example being Warmachine. The rest of the system is extremly barebone, ofc you have to properly divide the workload for attacks or objectives or choose right paper for the rock but that's basic point and click rts-ish stuff that every other game out there does as well. The difference would be that almost all games out there do skirmish stuff better and all unit based games do units stuff better while requiring much less houseruling, gentleman's agreement, common decency, mutual understanding, consciousness and love.
There are some tactics ofc, as long as there's movement, charge bonus, terrain, unit types etc you always have tactics. They seem to be a side effect here not a designers effort though and people will hit a skill ceiling fast.
I respect your opinion as well. But you act like there were more extensive tactics in WFB previously. Outside of bonuses for flanking you're describing the same factors that people called tactics in WFB. Proper movement, deployment, target priority, screening, baiting, fleeing, and such are still there. With the added effect of power houses like monsters, characters, and support units being harder to hide and more open to damage. I don't think the ceiling is as low as you think it is.
People say the same thing about 40k and yet the same group of guys have dominated the upper levels of 40k for the last 2-3 years.
Motograter wrote: Well F- me someone hates AoS by going to their local gw and smashing the window out with their car lol
Maybe they saw the price of the new Liberators and thought it was easier than robbing a jewelry store.
Perhaps but they aren't all that badly priced
LOL, really? This mentality is exactly why GW gets away with gouging it's customer base.
Lol really. Well only if you feel you're being gouged or actually still buying from gw direct which would be your own fault for not using online discounters
What kind of an excuse is this? It shouldn't be a ridiculous expectation for the goods you buy to be reasonably priced when buying from the source :/ The fact remains is that even with discounters, you're still paying $7-9 for basic foot sloggers.
Also, way to place the blame on the customer. "It's your fault if you didn't know about cheap online retailers that have a limited presence on the internet" Honestly, whenever I see a comment like this it makes me mad because it's always written in a tone that mocks those who may not be aware of these options: "I know all about these discount retailers but I won't mention any specific company because it's more important that I act all smug instead of trying to provide help to someone"
So who are these secret retailers? Care to actually provide a company name or link or would you rather continue on with "your fault for buying from the one option that's been presented to you" bit?
Its no excuse. Its also not anyone's problem. Get over yourself. Retailer wise element games, slayer wargames, the outpost happy? Smug for pointing out the internet and alternative retailers exist. Hell they are even sometimes advertised here on this very site. Its not my fault if folks cant either look for cheaper options which in this day and age no one has an excuse not to look online. Boo boo you don't agree
Exactly! You nailed it. I find it funny the excuses fanboys will go to, to justify GW's nonsense. Yes they make nice models. But at $12CDN a piece, for "troops"? That borders on lunacy, seeing that GW "realized" the big dollar buy in for the old WFB game. I keep trying to like AOS, I really do. But between the lack of balance, poorly written rules and new levels of pricing insanity, it makes me wonder what they're smoking...
Boy the Canucks are out in force. Fanboy lmao, take a look at my posts mate and tell me how I'm a fanboy. Maybe open your eyes to see I'm not. Old fantasy and 40k suck so much. If it wasn't for AoSgw would still be no use to me. Unfortunately for some coughyouandsomeotherscough people legitimately like AoS and are fed up with smart ass comments and rubbish being posted by some who seemingly need their hands held to play a game. Seemingly being an adult and maybe having to think outside the box is hard for some folk. Oh and by the way there is an ignore button
Hulksmash wrote: The app is up for the IPAD. Android is still pending.
The App is quite nice. A little buggy (selecting a faction from the warscrolls page after already selecting a previous faction for example), and the 'Rules' part isn't loading, but the 'my battle' section is very nice and should speed up games nicely.
(Still want printed card warscrolls though)
Has anyone got the big fluff book yet? I was expecting more leaks from it... I'm interested in the fluff of the Free Peoples and what the army selection for scenarios is like.
The fluff book is pretty nice! Quite liking that the Orcs decide to help Sigmar, but then get bored and just set about fighting everyone lol.
Ugh, really? What else, did the Dwarfs and Elves have a lovely tea party and make up, but then one of the Elves refused to pass the sugar cubes when asked so they fell out again?
I believe you gentlemen mean Aelfs, Orruk and Durrrrradin.
Hulksmash wrote: The app is up for the IPAD. Android is still pending.
The App is quite nice. A little buggy (selecting a faction from the warscrolls page after already selecting a previous faction for example), and the 'Rules' part isn't loading, but the 'my battle' section is very nice and should speed up games nicely.
(Still want printed card warscrolls though)
Has anyone got the big fluff book yet? I was expecting more leaks from it... I'm interested in the fluff of the Free Peoples and what the army selection for scenarios is like.
The fluff book is pretty nice! Quite liking that the Orcs decide to help Sigmar, but then get bored and just set about fighting everyone lol.
Ugh, really? What else, did the Dwarfs and Elves have a lovely tea party and make up, but then one of the Elves refused to pass the sugar cubes when asked so they fell out again?
Well, Sigmar did have to beat Gorkamorka into doing as they're told first. Orcs respect strength after all.
So, Sigmar just goes around beating up other Gods?
That sucks. Any confrontation between actual legit gods should be a cataclysmic, world altering event. It also sucks if Sigmar is just tougher than all the other gods because of plot armour. 40K had the problem of every other faction just being cannon fodder for the imperium (and especially Space Marine) fans to masturbate over as they died, very sad to see Fantasy going the same way when it originally had a much more balanced approach to the background (if anything Chaos was the stupidly powerful faction in Fantasy).
I'm not motivated to read the background, but what I hear does not enthuse me whatsoever.
Da Boss wrote: So, Sigmar just goes around beating up other Gods?
That sucks. Any confrontation between actual legit gods should be a cataclysmic, world altering event. It also sucks if Sigmar is just tougher than all the other gods because of plot armour. 40K had the problem of every other faction just being cannon fodder for the imperium (and especially Space Marine) fans to masturbate over as they died, very sad to see Fantasy going the same way when it originally had a much more balanced approach to the background (if anything Chaos was the stupidly powerful faction in Fantasy).
I'm not motivated to read the background, but what I hear does not enthuse me whatsoever.
Not really. He has Tyrion, Teclis, Malerion, Grimnir and Grungni on side as well as Gorkamorka for a brief period. He does have a pop at Nagash, but that doesn't really pan out, what with him being a notoriously evil dick and all lol. Basically Nagash has apparently made some sort of deal with the Chaos gods for them to leave his realm alone. He worked with Sigmar for a time only to betray him later on.
Tyrion and Teclis go off to try and find out what happened to their race as they are currently lost somewhere.
bubber wrote: is there any use of the 'key words' section at the bottom of each scroll?
Yeah, special rules might impact all modelsq with a certain keyword. Also, if you want to place restrictions on your game (or compare armies) you can go, you have 5 warmachines and I have 7.
Da Boss wrote: So, Sigmar just goes around beating up other Gods?
That sucks. Any confrontation between actual legit gods should be a cataclysmic, world altering event. It also sucks if Sigmar is just tougher than all the other gods because of plot armour. 40K had the problem of every other faction just being cannon fodder for the imperium (and especially Space Marine) fans to masturbate over as they died, very sad to see Fantasy going the same way when it originally had a much more balanced approach to the background (if anything Chaos was the stupidly powerful faction in Fantasy).
I'm not motivated to read the background, but what I hear does not enthuse me whatsoever.
Not exactly - He is revived by the Dragon God / Spirit that is the void - and then he revives or finds various characters / gods - so he brings back a couple but most come back on their own - Nagash is imprisoned by unknown forces as are the Dwarf Ancestor Gods - Malkeith seems to sort of come back on his own and find Morathi but Alarielle seems to be awakened by Sigmar. The Gork/Mork entity is only impressed to join up when Sigmar manages to fight him to a standstill - neither win but neither are defeated.
In order to survive the initial Chaos onslaughts and rebuild worlds, the Gods reluctantly unite but slowly drift apart - Gorkamorka gtes bored and starts being Orky and rampaging, the Elves try to capture Slaanesh to relase their own Kind (I think), Alarielle is only interested in bringing her own realm to life, rebirthing old forms of life such as Dryads and Treemen and nuturing it/them. Nagash and Sigmar have a major fight which weakens both sides when Chaos coems in force and everyhtinig goes to hell. Sigmar is driven back to his realm and the others are lost for the most part except for hidden surivivors and strongholds.
There is a sense of new hope in the fluff - more like the Great Crusade before the HH.......... btu without the Xenophobia and also a sense of lots of stuff going on we don't know about - its stated that the whole "capture" of Slaanesh is a Tzeentch plot but how and what actually occurs is not stated - especialyl since before that point Malekeith, (Morathi?) and Tyrion/Teclis embark on this there are no Elves anywhere - simply the feeling that there are some somewhere in torment - but there are definately elves later......
I have found it interesting and want to see where its going......
Oh and Sigmar's pad is fething huge by the way... like giant Asgard-esque city orbiting the remains of the Old World. Also, Ghal Maraz is lost and Grimnir makes Sigmar a shiny new beat stick.
angelofvengeance wrote: Oh and Sigmar's pad is fething huge by the way... like giant Asgard-esque city orbiting the remains of the Old World. Also, Ghal Maraz is lost and Grimnir makes Sigmar a shiny new beat stick.
Indeed from "Ask Josh reyonolds":
These realms are insanely VAST and the writers (or me, at least) have been encouraged to make stuff up, when it comes to the geography and peoples--Klaxus, for instance, is a blend of ancient Meroe, Cambodia and the Aztec empire, rather than being not-Germany.
Basically, each of the realms is the size of multiple WHF worlds, and some of them shift and warp in places at the inclination of their patrons (the Realms of Life and Death, for instance...). So the only limit to cultures/kingdoms/etc. is, to employ a cliche, your imagination.
Also the Storm of Sigmar campaign features some nice stuff like rewards for Chaos guys
D6 Results:
1 Spawndom- Your general suffers D3 mortal wounds. If he snuffs it he's reborn into an 'orrible gribbly Chaos Spawn
2 Daemonic Warband- The Chaos gods send you some Daemons, but they can't be Heroes or Monsters (so I'm guessing stuff like Bloodthirsters and Chaos Lords/Champions is a no go here?)
3 Daemonic Regiment- the Gods send you 1 unit of Daemons- can't be Heroes.
4 Champion of Chaos- the Gods send you 1 unit of Daemons of any type
5 Battalion of Chaos D3 units of Daemons but you can't have more than 1 Hero or more than 1 Monster.
6 Chaos Legion- D6 Units of Daemons but you can't have more than 1 Hero or Monster.
I don't so much mind the idea of Sigmar just having fights with other gods without some great cataclysm. Reminds me of the way gods and giants fight in Norse mythology, sorta Low key (pun not intended).
I don't so much mind the idea of Sigmar just having fights with other gods without some great cataclysm. Reminds me of the way gods and giants fight in Norse mythology, sorta Low key (pun not intended).
Indeed - or pretty much all the major mythlogical traditions
Everything I've read about the fluff over the last pages makes all the characters sound like comic book super heroes. GW have seen the success of Marvel in the cinema and they're trying to replicate it in their background.
Yeah... all of that turns me off of the setting even more, which I didn't think was possible. Setting up each realm like a friggin' Minecraft world with as much space and as many kingdoms as your heart desires just feels like the writers didn't care enough to figure it out themselves.
It feels like they're trying to port over as much of 40K as possible, without really trying to make sense of what's popular or how it all makes sense together. At least in 40K, the "infinite civilizations" bit makes sense, since you're working with an entire galaxy with functionally unlimited planets. Here, any inconsistency or plot hole is filled in with "magic!!!" like it's spackle. Killed off a character that you want to use again? Bring him back with magic! Need new cultures/landmasses/battlefields? Infinitely large magic realms! Desperately trying to sell more of the only thing you know works (space marines)? Shoehorn in reskinned versions of marines, made with magic! It's all so jumbled and lazy.
Also, can we subpoena Josh Reynolds next time GW tries to claim it invented everything?
Does anyone else find it weirdd we are getting pictures and war scrolls for Judicators, but no info on when we can order them? usually GW tries to hide shots of models not yet released. I have not been too excited with this release wave. We get a gret starter box, then 2 more of the same models (albeit with different rules) and 1 box of stuff we got 2 units of in the starter box.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I also found it weird they would give out a second version of the warscrolls for Liberators. Why not just put the different weapon options in the original warscroll and be done with it. Just seems weird. I am thinking about getting some of the terrain for my FLGS though. They look nice and have some fun impacts on the game.
NAVARRO wrote:
Talked with the store manager and he confirmed that soon enough there will be bases for sale in case you want to rebase your current WFB armies...
Hmm. The 32mm bases were on sale in my local before AoS was released... or were they out already for space marines?
Yeah, sincne Blood Angels we've seen 32mm for jump pack and now with Vanilla Marines we've seen 32mm for devastator squads as well. I think the Cult Mechanicus Tech Priest was also 32mm. I'm starting to wonder if all 40k going forward will be 32mm.
Guildsman wrote: Yeah... all of that turns me off of the setting even more, which I didn't think was possible. Setting up each realm like a friggin' Minecraft world with as much space and as many kingdoms as your heart desires just feels like the writers didn't care enough to figure it out themselves.
It feels like they're trying to port over as much of 40K as possible, without really trying to make sense of what's popular or how it all makes sense together. At least in 40K, the "infinite civilizations" bit makes sense, since you're working with an entire galaxy with functionally unlimited planets. Here, any inconsistency or plot hole is filled in with "magic!!!" like it's spackle. Killed off a character that you want to use again? Bring him back with magic! Need new cultures/landmasses/battlefields? Infinitely large magic realms! Desperately trying to sell more of the only thing you know works (space marines)? Shoehorn in reskinned versions of marines, made with magic! It's all so jumbled and lazy.
Also, can we subpoena Josh Reynolds next time GW tries to claim it invented everything?
Yep, that's my feeling as well. The scope of 40K to allow them to pump out endless newshiny, with none of the real consequences in-fiction; 40K might have functionally endless worlds and cultures to fight over, but most of the time they're physical places populated by actual people inhabiting a sci-fantastical version of reality, so if someone or somewhere gets eradicated they stay that way - there's something to lose, and typically when something's gone it actually is gone - if you can just magic everything back as-was or conjure your dead warriors' souls into new forms to keep fighting, where are the stakes?
Actually on saying that, I've figured out what AoS' structure reminds me of; the background from fantasy MMOs. Everything written as broadly as possible to allow for unlimited expansion, and all in ways that allow constantly repeating no-consequence character death and other such gameplay contrivances to be explained away in-world without posing difficult questions for players.
They say AoS is about narrative, but without real consequences I don't see how AoS is going to generate stories anywhere like as compelling as those that came from what Reynolds derisively dismissed as "not-Germany".
So far I like what I see with AoS. It is about Pushing Plastic and Blowing Up. That is what I am looking for in my Table Top Games. The rules being as simple as they are makes that really easy to play.
As for the setting, I really don't care about it yet. Give me some time I and I may start to care.
This was how I started with most of my Table Top Games.
spaztacus wrote: Yeah, sincne Blood Angels we've seen 32mm for jump pack and now with Vanilla Marines we've seen 32mm for devastator squads as well. I think the Cult Mechanicus Tech Priest was also 32mm. I'm starting to wonder if all 40k going forward will be 32mm.
Cult Mechanicus Tech Priest Dominus blister was 50mm.
The Datasmith(Kastelan Robot "handler") was 32mm as were the Electropriests.
spaztacus wrote: Yeah, sincne Blood Angels we've seen 32mm for jump pack and now with Vanilla Marines we've seen 32mm for devastator squads as well. I think the Cult Mechanicus Tech Priest was also 32mm. I'm starting to wonder if all 40k going forward will be 32mm.
Aye, but, I mean, 32mms in their own blister packs, hanging on the rack beside the counter, alongside the assortment packs of older round and square bases?
Vermis wrote: Aye, but, I mean, 32mms in their own blister packs, hanging on the rack beside the counter, alongside the assortment packs of older round and square bases?
Yeah. Been like that for months. Every now and then one of my local stores has a few blisters of them on the rack.
I was just looking through the new white dwarf. On page 20, it looks like they are showing some more stormcast models. A group like cultists and a chariot.
Bronzefists42 wrote: I guess smelly penitents in rags fared better than the men in tight brigades when it came to who survived the end of the universe.
Age of Sigmar takes place millennia after the End Times, after the rise and fall of numerous civilizations, any number of which may have been grander and lasted longer than the Old World's Empire. And they only rate a passing mention in the background section.
For all we know, all the humans in the AOS universe are descended from Tileans.
My entire reaction to AoS: "Are those Hammer-nators?? And what the hell happened to my infantry Bricks??" In short not a fan. I like the whole Demiplane Battle Royale thing, could have been fun, but since there doesnt appear to be any real cost to losing (other than wasted time) what the frell is the point in even fighting?? Why are they even fighting if each side can just "magic" back its warriors?
In short, this setting has massive holes and the fact that they replaced Slaanesh (my least favorite Chaos god btw) with the Horned Rat just pisses me off.
Exactly Grimmor, the stormcast eternals don't have heart or soul, they are just magically reincarnated dead guys now fighting chaos, there's not really as much tension as the old wfb, less stress on survival. Just more magic guys fighting the bad bloody guys.
I'm also pretty upset that something as inadequate as the horned rat fills the shoes of Slaanesh. I just don't think he can apply for the kind of position a chaos god entails, his description is just trickery and pestilence combined, sound familiar? Campaigns and story aside, they should have just made up a different god while they were at it, that could have been so much better.
Vermis wrote:
Hmm. The 32mm bases were on sale in my local before AoS was released... or were they out already for space marines?
They're really cheap, loose. Something like $4 or $5 for a box of 10, and of course, you still get a discount from it if you buy it from an indie. BA Tacticals, new SKU Death Company (and the ones that came with Deathstorm), the new devastators and assault marines, the new Sanguinary Guard are all boxes I've bought with 32mm bases.
spaztacus wrote:Yeah, sincne Blood Angels we've seen 32mm for jump pack and now with Vanilla Marines we've seen 32mm for devastator squads as well. I think the Cult Mechanicus Tech Priest was also 32mm. I'm starting to wonder if all 40k going forward will be 32mm.
I don't think so. All the Harlequins came on 25mm. In my opinion, it will be for the models that look like they step off of 25mm bases -- power armor types, bulky models, etc -- that don't belong on 50mm bases.
At the end of the day, as with many things with Games Workshop, the Rule of Cool prevails -- it's all just about whatever makes the model look nice.
You have to keep in mind that for some people, "Space Marines" = "all of 40k" and when you think of it that way it makes more sense.
When we first saw this occurring with the Marines in the Deathstorm box, even though the genestealers in the box still came on their usual bases, people still assumed "omg all 40k going to 32mm instead of 25mm?!" for quite a while after.
Bronzefists42 wrote: I guess smelly penitents in rags fared better than the men in tight brigades when it came to who survived the end of the universe.
I think it bears mentioning the vast time that's passed (apparently). The Old World and the End Times are only a "prequel" to Age of Sigmar n the sense that, dunno, the Napoleonic Wars are a prequel to Warhammer 40K.
Saga is an example of a game that deals with the problem of non standard basing in a sensible way, by having unit on unit combat rather than model on model.
AegisGrimm wrote: Which is even more saddening, considering what they could have done.
I wont lie, I did have some hopes. A skirmish based game that could be played with a handful of models and was fast paced along side the more classic WHFB game.
Instead though we got Sigmarines, Notchaosmarines and a game which is quite literally about bringing every model that you have and feth the balance.
AegisGrimm wrote: Which is even more saddening, considering what they could have done.
I wont lie, I did have some hopes. A skirmish based game that could be played with a handful of models and was fast paced along side the more classic WHFB game.
Instead though we got Sigmarines, Notchaosmarines and a game which is quite literally about bringing every model that you have and feth the balance.
On the plus side Sigmarites make excellent Terminators and the Khorne guys are cool looking Khorne Berskeres. Seriously i dont like this new style, i liked fantasy's style fine, it was nice and gritty. Now it just looks like im using 40k models.
NAVARRO wrote:
Talked with the store manager and he confirmed that soon enough there will be bases for sale in case you want to rebase your current WFB armies...
Hmm. The 32mm bases were on sale in my local before AoS was released... or were they out already for space marines?
How about, 'People having opinions are rubbish, nevermind I've jumped in with my own plenty of times.'
Opinions are one thing, but this is pretty much two camps of people seeing who can shout the loudest at one another now. The thing is, both sides are legit from several viewpoints ; some people like the game - because someone else doesn't does not make the (dis)liker incorrect. However heaps of posts that, with incredulity, call into question how it is possible that the (dis)liker holds this opinion lands us firmly into the realm of circuitous discussion. This is where conversations usually peter out on Dakka.
I've played the game. I like the actual game play, but good lord, the list construction is still train-wreck-tacular. And unfortunately that's really hampering us right now. Other than "one formation vs. one formation" or "two formation vs. two formation", our games have been totally lopsided one way or the other when we use the Rules as Written method of dropping models until I don't wanna drop models anymore. Our playing so far really seems to favor smaller games with this ruleset.... 75-125 wounds seems about right in terms of size, though it does nothing for weight distribution balance, clearly. There are 10-14 wound characters worth three times that in rank and file puds. There are 5 wound models that are nearly immeasurably valuable in certain armies.
My crew is going to look at Kings of War when the "other armies" thing drops to see what we want to continue doing. I think we might use AoS when we are limited in time to play a fast paced looser, smaller game, and then either do KoW (if we like it) or continue with 8th End Times if we don't.
But one thing's for sure... i've basically stopped paying attention to any post that is rife with hyperbole, tangent, and anecdote. Anyone White Knighting for, or issuing Writs of Condemnation without it being clear that they've played the game, I just pretty much cruise right past unless its a handful of people that typically have interesting things to say (which, Vermis, while we typically disagree on stance, I do tend to stop when i see a sheep avatar and at least graze a while ).
At this point though i'm wondering why people are wasting time defending or decrying the game. It's out. It is what it is. It's going to succeed or its going to fail. If you like it, play it, support it. If you don't, don't ? Why bring dubious quality anectdotes into a News and Rumors thread either for or against ? I mean, it's the same dozen or so people writing 80% of literally pages now of the same stuff.
Why not make a thread that says "I (don't) Hate Age of Sigmar: here's why!" ... and then keep that on topic easily. Because people that want news and rumors on the game have to wade through miles of bs in this thread to find a nugget of what they are looking for. Frankly, most of the posts in the thread don't have to do with news or rumors : they have to do with people's opinion on the game. Probably not the right thread for that. Definitely not the right thread for christ only knows how many pages on pages of it.
Hulksmash wrote: Overall the game is actually a lot of fun and very solid. And I feel people claiming it comes down to luck or that it always turns into a scrum in the middle and there aren't tactics are wrong.
I respect your opinion but fail to see where would this tactics come from. All I see is some shoot out of cc shenaningans and special rules interactions but imo the former is very immersion breaking and weird and the latter is done better in many other rulesets, the most obvious example being Warmachine. The rest of the system is extremly barebone, ofc you have to properly divide the workload for attacks or objectives or choose right paper for the rock but that's basic point and click rts-ish stuff that every other game out there does as well. The difference would be that almost all games out there do skirmish stuff better and all unit based games do units stuff better while requiring much less houseruling, gentleman's agreement, common decency, mutual understanding, consciousness and love.
There are some tactics ofc, as long as there's movement, charge bonus, terrain, unit types etc you always have tactics. They seem to be a side effect here not a designers effort though and people will hit a skill ceiling fast.
I respect your opinion as well. But you act like there were more extensive tactics in WFB previously. Outside of bonuses for flanking you're describing the same factors that people called tactics in WFB. Proper movement, deployment, target priority, screening, baiting, fleeing, and such are still there. With the added effect of power houses like monsters, characters, and support units being harder to hide and more open to damage. I don't think the ceiling is as low as you think it is.
People say the same thing about 40k and yet the same group of guys have dominated the upper levels of 40k for the last 2-3 years.
I think flanking makes a world of difference. All those things you mention gain a new dimension when flanking or rear charges are a thing ie screening units gets that another layer of thought that has to be put into it. 40k as a shooting game gives you natural bonuses from flanking in form of negating cover which matters more there than in fantasy not to mention vehicles have vulnerable sides also there's a lot of reserve/ scout/ infiltrate going on and in the end it's a significantly more complex ruleset (while still a tactical simpleton imo and should be so much more). I'm not saying whfb and 40k do it perfectly, they dont and are imo both suffering from too short movement ranges and steadfast in 8th was a bit too strong at times. 8th was a dumbed down 6th/7th though and the latter at their best were a proper generalship contests imo.
In fact, wargames, especialy those that lack a proper ambush mechanics can get quite simple when it comes to tactics as the situation they depict dont allow a lot of possibilities or sophistication tbh. That's why imo they should relay on small intricacies of fighting, artificial layers of interaction (like the movement and angles in 7th whfb for example) or hidden orders. If you look at it like that then removing the flanking bonuses is a huge blow as it removes a meaningful part of decision making where there are only a few already.
Sunday 3pm here btw and I have yet to go to sleep after a night spent under a wall of speakers in heavy rain and am bit insane atmtbh. So if the post contains some grammar atrocities or absurds (more than usual heh) then I'll try to elaborate later.
Bronzefists42 wrote: I guess smelly penitents in rags fared better than the men in tight brigades when it came to who survived the end of the universe.
Age of Sigmar takes place millennia after the End Times, after the rise and fall of numerous civilizations, any number of which may have been grander and lasted longer than the Old World's Empire. And they only rate a passing mention in the background section.
For all we know, all the humans in the AOS universe are descended from Tileans.
How does that work, since the Tileans(and Estalians) were wiped out "off screen" by the Skaven during the End Times?
There's no real question here, GW haven't thought carefully about this beyond, as you say, they purposefully wrote AoS to be as distant and disconnected from real Warhammer as possible; there are Flagellants and War Altars in the pics because GW still sell those models, and they'll keep selling them until either they produce newshiny "Free Peoples" miniatures, or until they think they've driven away enough of the old guard that nobody cares about real Warhammer any more and just stop making them, all the while talking out the side of their faces to assure us that they'll keep supporting those races & models because, afterall, didn't they generously give us all those free Warscrolls?
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: There are no prizes for guessing they are trying to force a link to 40k.
After all the reason that slaanesh is not around is because the eldar sucked him off into the 40K realm ;-)
That doesn't make sense. If Slaanesh is removed from Fantasy/AoS to show up in 40K, why are Nurgle, Khorne, etc.. in both? And why would the End Times coincide with the birth of Christ to synch AoS-time with the Gregorian Calendar?
Slaanesh was forcibly manifested into the realm by the eldar psyche unlike they other gods. Note the AoS fluff where slaanesh is trapped following devouring a glut of souls (eldar souls).
As for the greogorian stuff, well the emperor of mankind is St.george ;-)
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Slaanesh was forcibly manifested into the realm by the eldar psyche unlike they other gods. Note the AoS fluff where slaanesh is trapped following devouring a glut of souls (eldar souls).
Wait? So he passed over to 40K due to the Eldar Fall. Glutted himself on Eldar souls, went back to AoS, got trapped there because he was fat and glutted and send back to 40K again?
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Slaanesh was forcibly manifested into the realm by the eldar psyche unlike they other gods. Note the AoS fluff where slaanesh is trapped following devouring a glut of souls (eldar souls).
Wait? So he passed over to 40K due to the Eldar Fall. Glutted himself on Eldar souls, went back to AoS, got trapped there because he was fat and glutted and send back to 40K again?
Fan theories are like that. The canon is That Slaanesh is hiding and refuses to come out until you spend more money. Excessive amounts of money.
Bronzefists42 wrote: I guess smelly penitents in rags fared better than the men in tight brigades when it came to who survived the end of the universe.
Age of Sigmar takes place millennia after the End Times, after the rise and fall of numerous civilizations, any number of which may have been grander and lasted longer than the Old World's Empire. And they only rate a passing mention in the background section.
For all we know, all the humans in the AOS universe are descended from Tileans.
How does that work, since the Tileans(and Estalians) were wiped out "off screen" by the Skaven during the End Times?
There's no real question here, GW haven't thought carefully about this beyond, as you say, they purposefully wrote AoS to be as distant and disconnected from real Warhammer as possible; there are Flagellants and War Altars in the pics because GW still sell those models, and they'll keep selling them until either they produce newshiny "Free Peoples" miniatures, or until they think they've driven away enough of the old guard that nobody cares about real Warhammer any more and just stop making them, all the while talking out the side of their faces to assure us that they'll keep supporting those races & models because, afterall, didn't they generously give us all those free Warscrolls?
They did? well that's completely stupid and irritates me more about the whole thing.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Fan theories are like that. The canon is That Slaanesh is hiding and refuses to come out until you spend more money. Excessive amounts of money.
All the exalts... if only they worked like other forums instead of just bumping the thread popularity...
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Slaanesh was forcibly manifested into the realm by the eldar psyche unlike they other gods. Note the AoS fluff where slaanesh is trapped following devouring a glut of souls (eldar souls).
Wait? So he passed over to 40K due to the Eldar Fall. Glutted himself on Eldar souls, went back to AoS, got trapped there because he was fat and glutted and send back to 40K again?
Fan theories are like that. The canon is That Slaanesh is hiding and refuses to come out until you spend more money. Excessive amounts of money.
Chopxsticks wrote: Stuff like this is why I avoid fluff.. How do you fast forward thousands of years and still be stuck in the medieval era? Am I missing something?
Took humans a good while to get to where we are now tech wise... Plus I doubt there's been much time for inventing things if everyone's been busy dying.
Chopxsticks wrote: Stuff like this is why I avoid fluff.. How do you fast forward thousands of years and still be stuck in the medieval era? Am I missing something?
It's a bit like having Mordheim be set something like 500 years before the (then) current Warhammer era, but still having the same tech. It's like making a wargame seting during the Reformation and letting characters carry sub-machine guns.
Chopxsticks wrote: Stuff like this is why I avoid fluff.. How do you fast forward thousands of years and still be stuck in the medieval era? Am I missing something?
Took humans a good while to get to where we are now tech wise... Plus I doubt there's been much time for inventing things if everyone's been busy dying.
So he built a space dock around a sun then, fantastic.
I think that's supposed to be the Old World, Mallus
Everyone dying is actually a wonderful reason to advance tech. Look at WW2 and all of history. We're really good at dreaming up ways of eliminating one another.
Rihgu wrote: WW2 and the rest of history was not an apocalypse scenario. Not everybody was dying (there were plenty of people back home not dying to advance tech).
Whereas in this case, everybody is dying.
Plus, when you're a refugee in the realm of Azyr and Sigmar is literally shaping the universe at a whim, what technology are you going to invent?
Rihgu wrote: WW2 and the rest of history was not an apocalypse scenario. Not everybody was dying (there were plenty of people back home not dying to advance tech).
Whereas in this case, everybody is dying.
Plus, when you're a refugee in the realm of Azyr and Sigmar is literally shaping the universe at a whim, what technology are you going to invent?
Bigger shoulder pads?
Don't be silly, this isn't Warmachine! Our shoulderpads are large enough, and as imposing as Vlad and his might pauldrons are I don't think GW need be intimidated... for the time being...
I just grabbed WD77 today. The way that they combined 2 Archways to make a squared building is actually pretty cool, and like a lot of the cities of death buildings, the archway has a second level for models.
I may have to buy 2 :X
The Lord Castellant looks really nice, way better than the Lord Celestant (could the names be any more similar, GW?!?!). And of course, I love Baleful Realmgates. I wonder how the pricing was set: the Realmgates is a lot more expensive than the Archway, yet both look same size-ish (I mean, not directly, but in the same category of terrain size).
Don't be silly, this isn't Warmachine! Our shoulderpads are large enough, and as imposing as Vlad and his might pauldrons are I don't think GW need be intimidated... for the time being...
LOL! yeah Vlad has quite the shoulders hehehe. Puts a terminator to shame!
Chopxsticks wrote: Stuff like this is why I avoid fluff.. How do you fast forward thousands of years and still be stuck in the medieval era? Am I missing something?
Destruction of civilization and domination by the chaos gods for several thousand years? And not making the assumption that technology keeps a pace similar to the real world.
In any fantasy world, if you assume technological progression, then 1000 year old elves should be splicing DNA. But they aren't, because it's fantasy. Look at LOTR from which most fantasy derives. The elves are hundreds and thousands of years old. Each individual elf, not just the culture.
Bronzefists42 wrote: I guess smelly penitents in rags fared better than the men in tight brigades when it came to who survived the end of the universe.
Age of Sigmar takes place millennia after the End Times, after the rise and fall of numerous civilizations, any number of which may have been grander and lasted longer than the Old World's Empire. And they only rate a passing mention in the background section.
For all we know, all the humans in the AOS universe are descended from Tileans.
How does that work, since the Tileans(and Estalians) were wiped out "off screen" by the Skaven during the End Times?
There's no real question here, GW haven't thought carefully about this beyond, as you say, they purposefully wrote AoS to be as distant and disconnected from real Warhammer as possible; there are Flagellants and War Altars in the pics because GW still sell those models, and they'll keep selling them until either they produce newshiny "Free Peoples" miniatures, or until they think they've driven away enough of the old guard that nobody cares about real Warhammer any more and just stop making them, all the while talking out the side of their faces to assure us that they'll keep supporting those races & models because, afterall, didn't they generously give us all those free Warscrolls?
I don't get what's so hard to understand. (Well, other than people making it hard on purpose.)
There is the old world with it's stories. We fought battles with characters that in the chronology were long dead. No one complained if you fought Grom the Paunch vs Karl Franz. Grom died long ago, documented in both orc and elf army books.
We use the characters and the stories in our battles, and don't worry about how they fit together.
Then we have the end times. More stories, everyone dies. Except I can still play 8th edition and use characters that died in the end times next to ones that died a thousand years before.
Now Age of Sigmar. Instead of saying "Sod off, use new Sigmarine or Chaos models, or don't play!", they said "Here's free rules to use all your old models in the new game, have fun". Fight with old characters and new models. . Not a problem. The stories for age of sigmar will slowly unwind and we'll get new models. And still be able to mix the old ones in. Still able to play end times, and Tamurkhan, and 8th edition, or any other Edition.
Now Age of Sigmar. Instead of saying "Sod off, use new Sigmarine or Chaos models, or don't play!", they said "Here's free rules to use all your old models in the new game, have fun". Fight with old characters and new models. . Not a problem. The stories for age of sigmar will slowly unwind and we'll get new models. And still be able to mix the old ones in. Still able to play end times, and Tamurkhan, and 8th edition, or any other Edition.
Well..... at least until they remove the models/armies as they are written out or replaced.
You can't claim that the current set of "Free" warscrolls aren't only an attempt to not piss off every single player with older armies, until time they see fit to outright replace them all.
Now Age of Sigmar. Instead of saying "Sod off, use new Sigmarine or Chaos models, or don't play!", they said "Here's free rules to use all your old models in the new game, have fun". Fight with old characters and new models. . Not a problem. The stories for age of sigmar will slowly unwind and we'll get new models. And still be able to mix the old ones in. Still able to play end times, and Tamurkhan, and 8th edition, or any other Edition.
Well..... at least until they remove the models/armies as they are written out or replaced.
You can't claim that the current set of "Free" warscrolls aren't only an attempt to not piss off every single player with older armies, until time they see fit to outright replace them all.
Sure, they're all there..... for now.
They are saying "sod off", just not all at once.
And they kind of are hinting you should sod off when they make most of the older armies do stupid crap at the gaming table to get bonuses, while shockingly the new armies don't suggest you should look like a buffoon at the gaming table.
But yeah, the incoming slow phase out of the old armies is basically a giant "sod off", just kind of a slow wave of middle fingers instead of a giant inflatable one going down main street.
Now Age of Sigmar. Instead of saying "Sod off, use new Sigmarine or Chaos models, or don't play!", they said "Here's free rules to use all your old models in the new game, have fun". Fight with old characters and new models. . Not a problem. The stories for age of sigmar will slowly unwind and we'll get new models. And still be able to mix the old ones in. Still able to play end times, and Tamurkhan, and 8th edition, or any other Edition.
Well..... at least until they remove the models/armies as they are written out or replaced.
You can't claim that the current set of "Free" warscrolls aren't only an attempt to not piss off every single player with older armies, until time they see fit to outright replace them all.
Sure, they're all there..... for now.
They are saying "sod off", just not all at once.
And they kind of are hinting you should sod off when they make most of the older armies do stupid crap at the gaming table to get bonuses, while shockingly the new armies don't suggest you should look like a buffoon at the gaming table.
But yeah, the incoming slow phase out of the old armies is basically a giant "sod off", just kind of a slow wave of middle fingers instead of a giant inflatable one going down main street.
That, and they will probably destroy the molds, commiting what I see as a crime against gamer-kind.
Honestly, I'm such an A-hole that I love Wulfrik's rule. And Settra's is kind of obnoxiously funny. But the beard/mustache ones that are misogynistic suck.
I also kind of want to bring a pole with me anywhere I game and whip out the Masque. See how uncomfortable I can make my opponent!!
Tournament at Mikhaila's store, here I come!!
Chopxsticks wrote: Stuff like this is why I avoid fluff.. How do you fast forward thousands of years and still be stuck in the medieval era? Am I missing something?
Well, possibly. You see, during a total war, WWII, say, as someone suggested, development continues. Scientific research, however, slows to a crawl as the scientists who would be discovering new technologies are diverted to design weapons and other stuff using current scientific understanding instead. Eventually, there's nothing new for the development to do with current knowledge, but there's no time to test random theories that could have a military application, because the war is happening "now, dammit", and the resources for such research are needed elsewhere, so progress slows to a crawl at best. Fortunately, we haven't had any wars long enough on a large enough scale to see that play out all the way, or even close to that. When the Franks/Holy Roman Empire, err, I mean Teutogens/Reiklanders/Free People, have been waging multiple wars of survival spanning millennia, as well as apocalypse and creation level events, one can understand how they could run out of scientific concepts to work with after a while. That being said, "medieval stasis", although allowing us to play with our knights in a setting with lots of semi-recorded history and abandoned castles to loot, does come across as lazy if pulled off poorly. Even if the tech isn't revolutionizing, maybe some general figures out slightly less rudimentary polearm and shot formations, maybe fashion changes, or halberds give way to pikes. Something should happen, even if it's little. For instance, if GW had kept the Hochland Long Rifle out of Mordheim, or given those guys a slightly older style of helmet, 500 years before barely pre-end times, it would have shown the Empire was advancing somewhat, without radically altering the setting. Having a stable world is good for telling epic fantasy yarns, a static world can be a bit much.
That being said, I'm a fluff bunny, and may be given to a degree of fanboyism.
Chopxsticks wrote: Stuff like this is why I avoid fluff.. How do you fast forward thousands of years and still be stuck in the medieval era? Am I missing something?
Destruction of civilization and domination by the chaos gods for several thousand years? And not making the assumption that technology keeps a pace similar to the real world.
In any fantasy world, if you assume technological progression, then 1000 year old elves should be splicing DNA. But they aren't, because it's fantasy. Look at LOTR from which most fantasy derives. The elves are hundreds and thousands of years old. Each individual elf, not just the culture.
Warhammer fantasy (like all games workshop games) was created in a vacuum and is solely the original work of games workshop. Your comparisons to LOTR are otiose.
Not sure how GW pandering to the 6-8 year old ADD crowd has anything to do with offending women.
You know the real issue? GW radically (80-90%) changed a game i loved and played for 5-6 years. The only thing recognizable are the models themselves. For all we know the old factions won't even exist anymore. There is a such thing as too much change GW and you should've kept fantasy active with 'Age of Sigmar' as a choice to play. That way you have 2 game systems.
Oh and the real problem is a legit game turning into ride a fake horse and make funny faces with no points values in the actual game. I guarantee you 40k players if this happened to you guys after you've played for years and spent tons of money most of you would leave too.
Right now i'm wondering if i should play dark eldar with 40k or just switch to non-GW games after this.
flamingkillamajig wrote: Not sure how GW pandering to the 6-8 year old ADD crowd has anything to do with offending women.
You know the real issue? GW radically (80-90%) changed a game i loved and played for 5-6 years. The only thing recognizable are the models themselves. For all we know the old factions won't even exist anymore. There is a such thing as too much change GW and you should've kept fantasy active with 'Age of Sigmar' as a choice to play. That way you have 2 game systems.
Oh and the real problem is a legit game turning into ride a fake horse and make funny faces with no points values in the actual game. I guarantee you 40k players if this happened to you guys after you've played for years and spent tons of money most of you would leave too.
Right now i'm wondering if i should play dark eldar with 40k or just switch to non-GW games after this.
Or you can do what some other person did when he chucked a massive hissy fit, he burned his entire collection. I saw personally more than 20 AoS box sets picked up as pre-orders (one was mine) or sold that day, you are in the minority.
Also if this happened to 40K it would not matter a hill of beans to me, I'd get excited and get on with learning the new game.
There is always Magic the Gathering if you are not happy.
Homenutt wrote: Has anyone yet said "I just like the models" because I really like the new models.
"I just like the models!"
At least, that's why I bought the box. The game looks okay, I think. But I'm saving it til I paint the models to play. I like the measuring sticks too! They are way better than the ones that come with Dark Vengeance. Mine were totally warped, making them not very useful.
I bought the big book this weekend, at the same time. Wow, that's a nice book. It has a lot more stuff in it, definitely worth the buy if you want to get into the game world, I think.
But yeah! The models are the nicest models I think I may have seen... ever! And before anyone jumps all over me, I just mean, that they're really pretty, and I like them. Not that some other model is sucky. Or that it has more of this do-dad or that gizmo or the plastic is this or that. They just make me smile a bit is all. And I wish I could buy more of the winged angels by themselves!
Achaylus72 wrote: Or you can do what some other person did when he chucked a massive hissy fit, he burned his entire collection.
And considering how popular that YouTube video was, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he made more money from burning his army than he would have if he had just sold it on eBay.
Achaylus72 wrote: I saw personally more than 20 AoS box sets picked up as pre-orders (one was mine) or sold that day, you are in the minority.
You personally saw that at your store. Anecdotal evidence. That's not at all indicative of how AoS is selling anywhere but that store, nor does it give any indication of the long-term health of the game, even if you could prove that it was selling that well at every store.
I have no doubt GW is going to sell lots of AoS starters simply because of the 40k crossover potential with the models. I imagine most people are buying the box because they want to convert the models into Marines or Khorne berzerkers, not because they're interested in the game itself. We'll see how it goes once all the 40k players are done buying their conversion fodder and AoS starts getting more releases in the weeks to come, but until then, it's a little too early to call AoS a success (or a failure, to be completely fair...but I'd bet my money on the latter, personally).
Achaylus72 wrote: There is always Magic the Gathering if you are not happy.
Ah yes, that other popular mass-battle fantasy game where you assemble armies of hundreds of little plastic figures to fight people with. I forgot about that one.
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It's amazing how the target audience for Warhammer smoothly and gradualy changed over the years from the "intelligent 18 years old" as defined by Bryan Ansell to a "7 years old with mum".
As is the case with most things, "Get 'em hooked while they're young" is a pretty good way of keeping the business coming in. I'm sure some of you will agree that you got into this at an early age. I think I was probably about 8 or 9 when I started.
angelofvengeance wrote: As is the case with most things, "Get 'em hooked while they're young" is a pretty good way of keeping the business coming in. I'm sure some of you will agree that you got into this at an early age. I think I was probably about 8 or 9 when I started.
Yes but I for example was a kid hooked up on an teenage/ early adult things. Not the same as going smurfs with Warhammer.
flamingkillamajig wrote: Not sure how GW pandering to the 6-8 year old ADD crowd has anything to do with offending women.
You know the real issue? GW radically (80-90%) changed a game i loved and played for 5-6 years. The only thing recognizable are the models themselves. For all we know the old factions won't even exist anymore. There is a such thing as too much change GW and you should've kept fantasy active with 'Age of Sigmar' as a choice to play. That way you have 2 game systems.
Oh and the real problem is a legit game turning into ride a fake horse and make funny faces with no points values in the actual game. I guarantee you 40k players if this happened to you guys after you've played for years and spent tons of money most of you would leave too.
Right now i'm wondering if i should play dark eldar with 40k or just switch to non-GW games after this.
Or you can do what some other person did when he chucked a massive hissy fit, he burned his entire collection. I saw personally more than 20 AoS box sets picked up as pre-orders (one was mine) or sold that day, you are in the minority.
Also if this happened to 40K it would not matter a hill of beans to me, I'd get excited and get on with learning the new game.
There is always Magic the Gathering if you are not happy.
Another amazing thing, how critique of AoS will be met with attempts at sweeping the critics together as mini burning drama queens and suggestions that it's all hysteria, knee jerk etc. Newsflash, almost noone will burn their minis but a lot of people will walk away and GW better pander to those mums hard and hook the kids good.
Starters will always sell great as they have the best money to plastic ratio around, it has nothing to do with how good the game is.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sidstyler wrote: I was18 or 19, actually. Basically wargaming wasn't even an option before I moved out of the house and started making my own money. Too expensive.
I was more into video games when I was younger anyway.
I started very early with boardgames and wargames but it was things like Battletech, historical hex based boardgames etc. I also read Dune when I was 10 which is not a simple childish thing either (made me quite crazy for life I guess though). I played until 16 then stopped because girls booze and drugs are quite a game too. Then I got married and went back to boardgames and warhamers so proper addictive stuff lol (more expensive as well) not because those were easy, childish and simplistic back then when I was a kid but exactly because they weren't. I wouldnt get back to AoS just like I dont go back to Talisman. I go back to Dune but dont go back to all the Bambi equivalents. Etc.
Achaylus72 wrote: Or you can do what some other person did when he chucked a massive hissy fit, he burned his entire collection.
And considering how popular that YouTube video was, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he made more money from burning his army than he would have if he had just sold it on eBay.
Achaylus72 wrote: I saw personally more than 20 AoS box sets picked up as pre-orders (one was mine) or sold that day, you are in the minority.
You personally saw that at your store. Anecdotal evidence. That's not at all indicative of how AoS is selling anywhere but that store, nor does it give any indication of the long-term health of the game, even if you could prove that it was selling that well at every store.
I have no doubt GW is going to sell lots of AoS starters simply because of the 40k crossover potential with the models. I imagine most people are buying the box because they want to convert the models into Marines or Khorne berzerkers, not because they're interested in the game itself. We'll see how it goes once all the 40k players are done buying their conversion fodder and AoS starts getting more releases in the weeks to come, but until then, it's a little too early to call AoS a success (or a failure, to be completely fair...but I'd bet my money on the latter, personally).
Achaylus72 wrote: There is always Magic the Gathering if you are not happy.
Ah yes, that other popular mass-battle fantasy game where you assemble armies of hundreds of little plastic figures to fight people with. I forgot about that one.
You "imagine"? That's pretty hilarious, honestly. You lambast another user for trusting anecdotal evidence, then you make up a reason why even if the game sells, no one is buying it for the actual game...
I started very early with boardgames and wargames but it was things like Battletech, historical hex based boardgames etc. I also read Dune when I was 10 which is not a simple childish thing either (made me quite crazy for life I guess though). I played until 16 then stopped because girls booze and drugs are quite a game too. Then I got married and went back to boardgames and warhamers so proper addictive stuff lol (more expensive as well) not because those were easy, childish and simplistic back then when I was a kid but exactly because they weren't. I wouldnt get back to AoS just like I dont go back to Talisman. I go back to Dune but dont go back to all the Bambi equivalents. Etc.
It an interesting progression that I have also made - or somewhat similar:
The only real difference is that I find I have less interest in and enjoyment from the more complex rules systems than once I did - and importantly whilst I have the money to buy stuff but not normally the time to really spend on it as I once did, and my friends are the much the same - especially those with current partners / children.
So a number of us are really looking for a game where we can relax, chat about the game, push models about, construct scenarios in advance or on the day, make some silly quotes and accents, noises etc and generally chill.
Some days we want to enjoy the inherent complexity and intricate model interactions of say Malifaux or WM/H and sometime we want to match Judges or Renegade Ape Gangs versus East Meg Commies / Rebellious Robots for three or four half an hour games of Dredd. Now the latter can be tactical but is mostly rules lite - same as say the pretty awesome Heroscape with which AOS shares a number of things
AOS does look like it will be more conducive to this - at least at the moment but need to explore the game a bit - also making new units for it seems really good fun
Simple rules do not necessarily make a game "childish" is a point I would like to emphasise...............
Chopxsticks wrote: Stuff like this is why I avoid fluff.. How do you fast forward thousands of years and still be stuck in the medieval era? Am I missing something?
Destruction of civilization and domination by the chaos gods for several thousand years? And not making the assumption that technology keeps a pace similar to the real world.
In any fantasy world, if you assume technological progression, then 1000 year old elves should be splicing DNA. But they aren't, because it's fantasy. Look at LOTR from which most fantasy derives. The elves are hundreds and thousands of years old. Each individual elf, not just the culture.
Bronzefists42 wrote: I guess smelly penitents in rags fared better than the men in tight brigades when it came to who survived the end of the universe.
Age of Sigmar takes place millennia after the End Times, after the rise and fall of numerous civilizations, any number of which may have been grander and lasted longer than the Old World's Empire. And they only rate a passing mention in the background section.
For all we know, all the humans in the AOS universe are descended from Tileans.
How does that work, since the Tileans(and Estalians) were wiped out "off screen" by the Skaven during the End Times?
There's no real question here, GW haven't thought carefully about this beyond, as you say, they purposefully wrote AoS to be as distant and disconnected from real Warhammer as possible; there are Flagellants and War Altars in the pics because GW still sell those models, and they'll keep selling them until either they produce newshiny "Free Peoples" miniatures, or until they think they've driven away enough of the old guard that nobody cares about real Warhammer any more and just stop making them, all the while talking out the side of their faces to assure us that they'll keep supporting those races & models because, afterall, didn't they generously give us all those free Warscrolls?
I don't get what's so hard to understand. (Well, other than people making it hard on purpose.)
There is the old world with it's stories. We fought battles with characters that in the chronology were long dead. No one complained if you fought Grom the Paunch vs Karl Franz. Grom died long ago, documented in both orc and elf army books.
We use the characters and the stories in our battles, and don't worry about how they fit together.
Then we have the end times. More stories, everyone dies. Except I can still play 8th edition and use characters that died in the end times next to ones that died a thousand years before.
Now Age of Sigmar. Instead of saying "Sod off, use new Sigmarine or Chaos models, or don't play!", they said "Here's free rules to use all your old models in the new game, have fun". Fight with old characters and new models. . Not a problem. The stories for age of sigmar will slowly unwind and we'll get new models. And still be able to mix the old ones in. Still able to play end times, and Tamurkhan, and 8th edition, or any other Edition.
Your problem is you assume a failure of comprehension on our part, when the reality is some simply think you're wrong.
Technically, all of that's true. And technically, there's nothing stopping me using a 6th Edition army book with 8th Edition rules either. Of course practically it's a disingenuous crock, because most older rules don't hold up well/interact oddly to your disadvantage with the new ones, and the same will be true of AoS; right now the "price" for playing your old armies and characters in AoS is clowning around in front of other people as the result of a calculated attempt to humiliate you into buying the newer armies(and that's what the GW bloke at the FW event said to someone, in so many words), but the idea those Warscrolls are going to remain viable in the medium to long term, or will be updated to keep pace with the newshiny factions, is a joke.
Similarly, and this has been pointed out over, and over, and over, and over again; sure, I can play 8th. Or 7th. Or Tamurkhan. Or the original concept draft of the Warhammer rules written on the back of a napkin in a pub in 1979 - if I have a regular group who are all willing to play older rules and who all roughly agree on a style of play and what houserules if any are necessary. You own a store, so you know damn well that for a lot of people, that is simply not going to happen - they play the newest rules, or they play nothing.
If GW genuinely wanted to thank and support those who'd stuck with them up to this point, they'd have completed 8th Edition with the final two books prior to the End Times, thoroughly FAQ'd the core and army rules, and then put all of those up on their website for free, to make it as easy as possible for people to continue playing 8th with their old armies. The AoS rules for the old stuff are not for our benefit, they are a calculated and cynical attempt to placate people just long enough for GW to bring out the newshiny version of their old faction, in the hope that the new models dazzle them into buying regardless of any other considerations.
It's of course perfectly within GW's rights to do what they've done, but nobody is obligated to like it, and nobody is obligated to keep the fact they dislike it to themselves.
Regarding playing dead game systems- a store will sometimes prefer to promote games they are currently selling. If AOS is available to sell that is going to get pushed more than a WFB version from the past.
Essentially it is left to the basement gamers to keep going with the old versions. I just purchased a couple of copies of the 8th edition rules, just to have them available.
Chopxsticks wrote: Stuff like this is why I avoid fluff.. How do you fast forward thousands of years and still be stuck in the medieval era? Am I missing something?
Destruction of civilization and domination by the chaos gods for several thousand years? And not making the assumption that technology keeps a pace similar to the real world.
In any fantasy world, if you assume technological progression, then 1000 year old elves should be splicing DNA. But they aren't, because it's fantasy. Look at LOTR from which most fantasy derives. The elves are hundreds and thousands of years old. Each individual elf, not just the culture.
Bronzefists42 wrote: I guess smelly penitents in rags fared better than the men in tight brigades when it came to who survived the end of the universe.
Age of Sigmar takes place millennia after the End Times, after the rise and fall of numerous civilizations, any number of which may have been grander and lasted longer than the Old World's Empire. And they only rate a passing mention in the background section.
For all we know, all the humans in the AOS universe are descended from Tileans.
How does that work, since the Tileans(and Estalians) were wiped out "off screen" by the Skaven during the End Times?
There's no real question here, GW haven't thought carefully about this beyond, as you say, they purposefully wrote AoS to be as distant and disconnected from real Warhammer as possible; there are Flagellants and War Altars in the pics because GW still sell those models, and they'll keep selling them until either they produce newshiny "Free Peoples" miniatures, or until they think they've driven away enough of the old guard that nobody cares about real Warhammer any more and just stop making them, all the while talking out the side of their faces to assure us that they'll keep supporting those races & models because, afterall, didn't they generously give us all those free Warscrolls?
I don't get what's so hard to understand. (Well, other than people making it hard on purpose.)
There is the old world with it's stories. We fought battles with characters that in the chronology were long dead. No one complained if you fought Grom the Paunch vs Karl Franz. Grom died long ago, documented in both orc and elf army books.
We use the characters and the stories in our battles, and don't worry about how they fit together.
Then we have the end times. More stories, everyone dies. Except I can still play 8th edition and use characters that died in the end times next to ones that died a thousand years before.
Now Age of Sigmar. Instead of saying "Sod off, use new Sigmarine or Chaos models, or don't play!", they said "Here's free rules to use all your old models in the new game, have fun". Fight with old characters and new models. . Not a problem. The stories for age of sigmar will slowly unwind and we'll get new models. And still be able to mix the old ones in. Still able to play end times, and Tamurkhan, and 8th edition, or any other Edition.
Your problem is you assume a failure of comprehension on our part, when the reality is some simply think you're wrong.
Technically, all of that's true. And technically, there's nothing stopping me using a 6th Edition army book with 8th Edition rules either. Of course practically it's a disingenuous crock, because most older rules don't hold up well/interact oddly to your disadvantage with the new ones, and the same will be true of AoS; right now the "price" for playing your old armies and characters in AoS is clowning around in front of other people as the result of a calculated attempt to humiliate you into buying the newer armies(and that's what the GW bloke at the FW event said to someone, in so many words), but the idea those Warscrolls are going to remain viable in the medium to long term, or will be updated to keep pace with the newshiny factions, is a joke.
Similarly, and this has been pointed out over, and over, and over, and over again; sure, I can play 8th. Or 7th. Or Tamurkhan. Or the original concept draft of the Warhammer rules written on the back of a napkin in a pub in 1979 - if I have a regular group who are all willing to play older rules and who all roughly agree on a style of play and what houserules if any are necessary. You own a store, so you know damn well that for a lot of people, that is simply not going to happen - they play the newest rules, or they play nothing.
If GW genuinely wanted to thank and support those who'd stuck with them up to this point, they'd have completed 8th Edition with the final two books prior to the End Times, thoroughly FAQ'd the core and army rules, and then put all of those up on their website for free, to make it as easy as possible for people to continue playing 8th with their old armies. The AoS rules for the old stuff are not for our benefit, they are a calculated and cynical attempt to placate people just long enough for GW to bring out the newshiny version of their old faction, in the hope that the new models dazzle them into buying regardless of any other considerations.
It's of course perfectly within GW's rights to do what they've done, but nobody is obligated to like it, and nobody is obligated to keep the fact they dislike it to themselves.
Nail and head good sir.
Plus the polls posted across forums backs this up. At best its a 50/50 split for this who like it or dislike it. The big question is will they still like it in 6 months or will they be bord?
I would give it another try if GW didva version of the rules for infantry blocks and a points system. At the moment I may as well just have a nice roll contest.
Mymearan wrote: You "imagine"? That's pretty hilarious, honestly. You lambast another user for trusting anecdotal evidence, then you make up a reason why even if the game sells, no one is buying it for the actual game...
It's my opinion, not a statement of fact. Achaylus post definitely came off as a statement of fact, hence why I took issue with it.
Like I said, if AoS products continue to be hot sellers beyond the AoS starter then I'll be convinced, but as of now it was kind of a given that the starter would sell just because of the models, and I don't think it really means anything yet.
Well, possibly. You see, during a total war, WWII, say, as someone suggested, development continues. Scientific research, however, slows to a crawl/quote]
You mean that 6 year period where mankind invented auto loaders, computer targeting, rockets, missiles, jet fighters the atomic bomb, the internet, improved tank armour, tungstan ammo and many more.
Yet after thousands of years they are still using the same swords?
It's amazing how the target audience for Warhammer smoothly and gradualy changed over the years from the "intelligent 18 years old" as defined by Bryan Ansell to a "7 years old with mum".
Not really, for me and my crowd it was always an immature fun game originally, around ten years old is the age quite a few of us were when we started out on GW stuff back in the 80s, lots of the jokes were pretty childish, and there was nothing else like it around at the time though, so its hard to compare really.
Anyway, back on topic, I am still not sold on the sigmarites, tried reading the fluff but I cant really get into it.
Still I might pick some of those khorne chaps off ebay for my csm, I really like the lord and the massive dreadnought sorry, bag of skulls !!!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I checked out that Khornate dice shaker at the weekend and it really is a nice piece of kit, lots of cool little markings and lots of detail.
I was tempted I must admit.
I think they would sell quite a few of those things if it was a decent price, I could not however justify twenty five pounds when I can just use my hand instead.
I think they would sell quite a few of those things if it was a decent price, I could not however justify twenty five pounds when I can just use my hand instead.
GW would drastically increases profit / sales if they sold anything at a reasonable price.
has more pics of the other displays/warhammer world in general.
Really great links thanks! War hammer world is looking like it's worth the trip more and more.
Also from the artwork on the walls I think we can expect the Black Orruks to be the size of sigmarines, if not bulkier still!
Has anyone got the big fluff book yet? I was expecting more leaks from it... I'm interested in the fluff of the Free Peoples and what the army selection for scenarios is like.
Quickly - we haven't seen the dwarfs other than a picture of the Fyreslayers (with red beards and hair rather than orange) and the elves are missing in the fluff. Tyrion and Malerion (malekith) are looking for them. No mentions of regular humans to speak of except that people live in Sigmaron and that everything else in the realms has been savaged by chaos for a long time and all kingdoms there have been overthrown. The people who died were the lucky ones and the rest are slaves, slavers or forced to cannibalism by the khorne guys and made to join them.
The army selection in the scenarios is "choose an army. Then play this scenario." There's occasionally something like if you outnumber your opponent you have to be the attacker rather than the defender.
Has anyone got the big fluff book yet? I was expecting more leaks from it... I'm interested in the fluff of the Free Peoples and what the army selection for scenarios is like.
Quickly - we haven't seen the dwarfs other than a picture of the Fyreslayers (with red beards and hair rather than orange) and the elves are missing in the fluff. Tyrion and Malerion (malekith) are looking for them. No mentions of regular humans to speak of except that people live in Sigmaron and that everything else in the realms has been savaged by chaos for a long time and all kingdoms there have been overthrown. The people who died were the lucky ones and the rest are slaves, slavers or forced to cannibalism by the khorne guys and made to join them.
The army selection in the scenarios is "choose an army. Then play this scenario." There's occasionally something like if you outnumber your opponent you have to be the attacker rather than the defender.
I will add that there are eight scenarios in the book. Army selection is still 'chat about what you want to play'. But I think in all cases armies are decided before deployment begins.
The warscrolls are identical to what's available online (they are definitely keeping them all free).
In short:
- Fluff of where we're up to in this Age (imagery/presentation heavy)
- Eight new scenarios
- Rules for battles in two of the realms
- Warscrolls (none new; they will always be free online/in the app)
has more pics of the other displays/warhammer world in general.
Really great links thanks! War hammer world is looking like it's worth the trip more and more.
Also from the artwork on the walls I think we can expect the Black Orruks to be the size of sigmarines, if not bulkier still!
Whatever anyone may think of GW and their choices, they make very pretty things (models, artwork).... Makes it very tempting even when the rules are completely un-interesting to me personally (note: personally!! not trying to start anything ), which is quite an accomplishment.
As a veteran greenskin collector the artwork reminds me a lot of the 1st edition Ork artwork ('Ere we go, Freebooterz) and the Ocs from Rackham, partly by from the same artist.
Not that i don't love these, i do.
I still find 1st edition Orks and Rackham Orcs the best ever.
But i hope GW gets it right AND makes something that is new.
But Alpharius, how can I look at myself in the mirror, or speak without shame to my future children if I don't win a wargaming debate on the internet?
Anyways, the photos are really cool. I'd almost be afraid to game on that table, it's so nice. And that print of the Judicators, it'd go great in the gaming boiler room. [url=https://flic.kr/p/v6BVgv]IMG_1442 by Jelle Goossens, on Flickr, on Flickr
So, I read on Naftka that GW is working on Age of Sigmar style Bretonnians. Usually, I don't bother with those guys, but this seems like a reasonable concept. I'd build such an army, **drools**.
has more pics of the other displays/warhammer world in general.
Thank you for the pics! The dioramas are amazing, particularly like the Retributors flying out of the portal-gate. Maybe with other Warhammer starter sets there will be more dioramas? Another reason to visit Warhammer World.
3AcresAndATau wrote: But Alpharius, how can I look at myself in the mirror, or speak without shame to my future children if I don't win a wargaming debate on the internet?
Anyways, the photos are really cool. I'd almost be afraid to game on that table, it's so nice. And that print of the Judicators, it'd go great in the gaming boiler room. [url=https://flic.kr/p/v6BVgv]IMG_1442 by Jelle Goossens, on Flickr, on Flickr
So, I read on Naftka that GW is working on Age of Sigmar style Bretonnians. Usually, I don't bother with those guys, but this seems like a reasonable concept. I'd build such an army, **drools**.
Hmm.. Extra salty if it's from Natfka. Not really a reliable rumour-monger lol.
3AcresAndATau wrote: But Alpharius, how can I look at myself in the mirror, or speak without shame to my future children if I don't win a wargaming debate on the internet?
Anyways, the photos are really cool. I'd almost be afraid to game on that table, it's so nice. And that print of the Judicators, it'd go great in the gaming boiler room. [url=https://flic.kr/p/v6BVgv]IMG_1442 by Jelle Goossens, on Flickr, on Flickr
So, I read on Naftka that GW is working on Age of Sigmar style Bretonnians. Usually, I don't bother with those guys, but this seems like a reasonable concept. I'd build such an army, **drools**.
Hmm.. Extra salty if it's from Natfka. Not really a reliable rumour-monger lol.
Hah. I lost all faith in them after the promise of 10mm Epic didn't pan out. But New Brets sound so delightful, maybe we just need to tap into our ork powers.
Any rumors on whether GW plans to use its campaigns to make the setting really dynamic? Way I see it they could go full on "this changes the world" with the supplements, or comic book everything's different but it's also the same. Both of which serve a purpose.
I think GW is eventually gonna Sigmarify pretty much everything in time. They'll probably release a couple new models for an army, and then repackage old ones in lower quantities with higher per-model prices but give em round or oval bases.
Any rumors on whether GW plans to use its campaigns to make the setting really dynamic? Way I see it they could go full on "this changes the world" with the supplements, or comic book everything's different but it's also the same. Both of which serve a purpose.
they're claiming the AoS battles at warhammer world will "With unique scenarios, warzones and permanent consequences for our Warhammer Campaigns, this weekend is not to be missed! "
but even if true none of it will be quick (AoS seems to have been floating about beind the scenes since at least early 2013) so even if, for example, Chaos wins big don't expect anything new for a year or two (although it might just adjust the release order of stuff they've already got in the pipeline),
and don't expect any battles that promise to remove a faction (again even if Sigmar looses every single match over the next 2 years he's not going anywhere)
I keep checking this thread in the hopes of seeing something new. GW's secrecy drives me nuts. I'm sure later in the week we'll see new stuff.
I'm still surprised GW doesn't have the big ticket giant monster kits ready to roll out for both sides.
At least Chaos has that new Bloodthirster kit to play with, or any of the other big End Times kit, but Sigmar sure needs his own Avatar to tower over the battlefield.
Necros wrote: I think GW is eventually gonna Sigmarify pretty much everything in time. They'll probably release a couple new models for an army, and then repackage old ones in lower quantities with higher per-model prices but give em round or oval bases.
I think it's safe to assume that we'll see more sigmarines, then some khorne chaos, followed in the near term by aelfs and duardin.
Because when you look at all the pictures of models in the book they have undead, warriors, demons, seraphon (lizards), orcs+goblins, skaven, empire, ogres, - but no duardin, even though they are referred to in the fluff and no aelfs, as they are lost fluff-wise at the moment.
Brets we'll probably see as mounted sigmarines and who knows about beastmen. So the major races missing from the model photography are aelfs and dwarfs. (there's even mention of a mechanized flying army in Chamon (metal) which is where I think most of the duardin are.
Eldarain wrote: Doesn't the newest White Dwarf teaser mention Destruction for next week?
It does, but no rumors about any new releases. Might just be showcasing Destruction models on round bases, and some lore tidbits about what they are up to in the Mortal Realms.
It's amazing how the target audience for Warhammer smoothly and gradualy changed over the years from the "intelligent 18 years old" as defined by Bryan Ansell to a "7 years old with mum".
Not really, for me and my crowd it was always an immature fun game originally, around ten years old is the age quite a few of us were when we started out on GW stuff back in the 80s, lots of the jokes were pretty childish, and there was nothing else like it around at the time though, so its hard to compare really.
But really. What it was for you and your crowd is exactly irrelevant when it was in the guidelines for writers that the ideal reader was "intelligent 18 years old" and obviously a target for games and fluff is the same. I'll take gw guideline over your impression tbh heh. Also did you miss the stamp on Slaves to Darkness, what was it, "reccomended for mature readers"?
Necros wrote: I think GW is eventually gonna Sigmarify pretty much everything in time. They'll probably release a couple new models for an army, and then repackage old ones in lower quantities with higher per-model prices but give em round or oval bases.
I think it's safe to assume that we'll see more sigmarines, then some khorne chaos, followed in the near term by aelfs and duardin.
Because when you look at all the pictures of models in the book they have undead, warriors, demons, seraphon (lizards), orcs+goblins, skaven, empire, ogres, - but no duardin, even though they are referred to in the fluff and no aelfs, as they are lost fluff-wise at the moment.
Brets we'll probably see as mounted sigmarines and who knows about beastmen. So the major races missing from the model photography are aelfs and dwarfs. (there's even mention of a mechanized flying army in Chamon (metal) which is where I think most of the duardin are.
That would be the most horrible thing ever. Chaos had an 8th edition book. Skaven's last book was in 7th edition and had no releases. Same goes for beastmen (7th) and bretonnia (6th i think). Elves and dwarfs have had a lot of attention before End Times and no i'm not going to count End Times releases for skaven as chaos got at least 2 releases for End Times, an 8th edition book and these khornate jack***es in Age of Sigmar as we see now.
Give skaven, beastmen and bretonnia a shot even if bretonnia has basically been written off by now. I mean jeez i think even greenskins deserve more limelight (heh they are green) than chaos warriors, dwarfs, empire, undead or elves.
It's amazing how the target audience for Warhammer smoothly and gradualy changed over the years from the "intelligent 18 years old" as defined by Bryan Ansell to a "7 years old with mum".
Not really, for me and my crowd it was always an immature fun game originally, around ten years old is the age quite a few of us were when we started out on GW stuff back in the 80s, lots of the jokes were pretty childish, and there was nothing else like it around at the time though, so its hard to compare really.
But really. What it was for you and your crowd is exactly irrelevant when it was in the guidelines for writers that the ideal reader was "intelligent 18 years old" and obviously a target for games and fluff is the same. I'll take gw guideline over your impression tbh heh. Also did you miss the stamp on Slaves to Darkness, what was it, "reccomended for mature readers"?
Fair enough, i will agree to disagree, although to me its pretty obvious that they were aiming it at early teens as well as the older crowd.
It's amazing how the target audience for Warhammer smoothly and gradualy changed over the years from the "intelligent 18 years old" as defined by Bryan Ansell to a "7 years old with mum".
Not really, for me and my crowd it was always an immature fun game originally, around ten years old is the age quite a few of us were when we started out on GW stuff back in the 80s, lots of the jokes were pretty childish, and there was nothing else like it around at the time though, so its hard to compare really.
But really. What it was for you and your crowd is exactly irrelevant when it was in the guidelines for writers that the ideal reader was "intelligent 18 years old" and obviously a target for games and fluff is the same. I'll take gw guideline over your impression tbh heh. Also did you miss the stamp on Slaves to Darkness, what was it, "reccomended for mature readers"?
Ah, but as a counter point, surely a stamp recommending the book for "mature readers" would not be necessary if "mature readers" were the target market? The existence of that stamp shows that there was a very high likelihood of someone younger than "mature" gaining access to that book, and so it was considered necessary to warn them of the content.
In any case, what you want your target audience to be doesn't always match up with your actual target audience.
It's amazing how the target audience for Warhammer smoothly and gradualy changed over the years from the "intelligent 18 years old" as defined by Bryan Ansell to a "7 years old with mum".
Not really, for me and my crowd it was always an immature fun game originally, around ten years old is the age quite a few of us were when we started out on GW stuff back in the 80s, lots of the jokes were pretty childish, and there was nothing else like it around at the time though, so its hard to compare really.
But really. What it was for you and your crowd is exactly irrelevant when it was in the guidelines for writers that the ideal reader was "intelligent 18 years old" and obviously a target for games and fluff is the same. I'll take gw guideline over your impression tbh heh. Also did you miss the stamp on Slaves to Darkness, what was it, "reccomended for mature readers"?
Ah, but as a counter point, surely a stamp recommending the book for "mature readers" would not be necessary if "mature readers" were the target market? The existence of that stamp shows that there was a very high likelihood of someone younger than "mature" gaining access to that book, and so it was considered necessary to warn them of the content.
In any case, what you want your target audience to be doesn't always match up with your actual target audience.
Target market for porn is adults and porn magazines carry the stamps, not sure what your point is. Every "adult" thing gets into kids hands on regular basis.
If you're about the wording, I think they wanted to avoid straight 18+ for the potential problems in shops and the same time have a cop out against some mother freaked out about her sweethart being satanic deviant after finding it in son's hands.
Glaives and halberds. Currently those and the bow armed eternals are the only models not released for the stormcast. (yes winged dudes and hammer dudes arent in a multi part box but they are out technically)
We actually have a Prosecutor set that we haven't seen as well. The AOS book has some armed with shields and spears as well as what looks like a hero armed with a massive spear.
Necros wrote: I think GW is eventually gonna Sigmarify pretty much everything in time. They'll probably release a couple new models for an army, and then repackage old ones in lower quantities with higher per-model prices but give em round or oval bases.
I think it's safe to assume that we'll see more sigmarines, then some khorne chaos, followed in the near term by aelfs and duardin.
Because when you look at all the pictures of models in the book they have undead, warriors, demons, seraphon (lizards), orcs+goblins, skaven, empire, ogres, - but no duardin, even though they are referred to in the fluff and no aelfs, as they are lost fluff-wise at the moment.
Brets we'll probably see as mounted sigmarines and who knows about beastmen. So the major races missing from the model photography are aelfs and dwarfs. (there's even mention of a mechanized flying army in Chamon (metal) which is where I think most of the duardin are.
That would be the most horrible thing ever. Chaos had an 8th edition book. Skaven's last book was in 7th edition and had no releases. Same goes for beastmen (7th) and bretonnia (6th i think). Elves and dwarfs have had a lot of attention before End Times and no i'm not going to count End Times releases for skaven as chaos got at least 2 releases for End Times, an 8th edition book and these khornate jack***es in Age of Sigmar as we see now.
Give skaven, beastmen and bretonnia a shot even if bretonnia has basically been written off by now. I mean jeez i think even greenskins deserve more limelight (heh they are green) than chaos warriors, dwarfs, empire, undead or elves.
GW always pushes the armies that sell, Space Marines etc. Saying an army had a book in 8th is completely irrelevant. Look at the Marine and Eldar books for 40K. Both were less than 2 years old and they were still replaced. Why? Marines and Eldar are their top sellers.
I'm pretty sure that the realmgates featured in the demo games at my local GW. I'll probably build my own. They'll look like crap but they'll have that 'homemade' PVA glue charm!
Kanluwen wrote: We actually have a Prosecutor set that we haven't seen as well. The AOS book has some armed with shields and spears as well as what looks like a hero armed with a massive spear.
Yeah I posted a pic of these here last week when my FLGS let me have a skim through the AoS fluff & campaign book. The pic should be up on the OP.
Kanluwen wrote: We actually have a Prosecutor set that we haven't seen as well. The AOS book has some armed with shields and spears as well as what looks like a hero armed with a massive spear.
Yeah I posted a pic of these here last week when my FLGS let me have a skim through the AoS fluff & campaign book. The pic should be up on the OP.
Excellent. Anyone with some clearer pics?
I planned to have a second set of those (and some Liberators) armed with hoplite shields and spears with horsehair crests ever since I first saw them. Now I'll have rules (but slightly less unique models ), should I ever want to play AoS.
Now I just need a second AoS set or wait for a good deal for some AoS Prosecutors.
Kanluwen wrote: We actually have a Prosecutor set that we haven't seen as well. The AOS book has some armed with shields and spears as well as what looks like a hero armed with a massive spear.
Yeah I posted a pic of these here last week when my FLGS let me have a skim through the AoS fluff & campaign book. The pic should be up on the OP.
Excellent. Anyone with some clearer pics?
I planned to have a second set of those (and some Liberators) armed with hoplite shields and spears with horsehair crests ever since I first saw them. Now I'll have rules (but slightly less unique models ), should I ever want to play AoS.
Now I just need a second AoS set or wait for a good deal for some AoS Prosecutors.
There isn't really any clearer pics than the one that's been shown. They're waaaaaaaay in the background of the shot.
So if anyone is interested I posted a bunch of photos on my facebook page with head swaps on the Sigmarines. I found almost any head I put on it looked good. The Empire common sized humans however didnt look that great.
Chopxsticks wrote: So if anyone is interested I posted a bunch of photos on my facebook page with head swaps on the Sigmarines. I found almost any head I put on it looked good. The Empire common sized humans however didnt look that great.
Maybe just iPads then?
Just saw on the warhammer news app that they were asking for feedback on the AoS app, so I thought I'd report the rules button problem to them, wrote the email, hit send, and got a bounce back cos the mailbox doesn't exist or I don't have permission to send email to it! Haha gw being amazing as usual.
Kanluwen wrote: We actually have a Prosecutor set that we haven't seen as well. The AOS book has some armed with shields and spears as well as what looks like a hero armed with a massive spear.
Yeah I posted a pic of these here last week when my FLGS let me have a skim through the AoS fluff & campaign book. The pic should be up on the OP.
Excellent. Anyone with some clearer pics?
I planned to have a second set of those (and some Liberators) armed with hoplite shields and spears with horsehair crests ever since I first saw them. Now I'll have rules (but slightly less unique models ), should I ever want to play AoS.
Now I just need a second AoS set or wait for a good deal for some AoS Prosecutors.
There isn't really any clearer pics than the one that's been shown. They're waaaaaaaay in the background of the shot.
That's why I asked, because of tiiiinyness
I knew I should've converted my guys right away to be the "first" to have them, but I also wanted to have an unit with dual hammers
I like the sound of the Shockbolt Bow, it's a cool ability. I actually prefer it to the crossbow.
Why we can't ever have nice angels who fight out of necessity in a GW, I'll never...OMIGOSH, I got my theme for my Stormcast. They'll be painted like the LAF (Gunmetal+Maroon/Black Quartering) in the Elysian Chronicles, with elite units done up as RSOs (Dull Bronze with Green and Brown). If you haven't got a clue what I'm talking about, just google "M.B Weston". Pretty close to my current "gunmetal n' red" plan anyways.
It's good to know all of the archer's weapons have the word "bolt" in it.. I was concerned GW wasn't going to provide "subtle" tie ins with space marines.
Kirasu wrote: It's good to know all of the archer's weapons have the word "bolt" in it.. I was concerned GW wasn't going to provide "subtle" tie ins with space marines.
Subtle is Game's Workshop's middle name, as we all know.
Anyhow, I'm not so sold on the look of the standard bow Judicators, the bows certainly would look wrong if they had less heft, but they almost seem a little to bulky. It could just be the monopose effect getting to me here. If I pick up a Judicator box set, I'll probably go for a few sideways bows and ready looking but not drawn bows, get a little more pose variety, that or go with the crossbows. But regular bows is more likely, long shooty is better than nasty shooty, IMO, but long and nasty shooty is best, and that looks like your trade off here. X bows get two shots, but at a lesser range and with poorer chances of success. Yeah, bows it is.
If I remember correctly (seeing the model in my FLGS since it was in their promotional package) all that stuff is sculpted onto the walls. It really looked nice on the sprues. But it is the terrain type quality plastic not what they use for the miniatures.
Kirasu wrote: It's good to know all of the archer's weapons have the word "bolt" in it.. I was concerned GW wasn't going to provide "subtle" tie ins with space marines.
Let's not forget that the Stormbolters Boltstormers come with Rapid Fire!
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The USD price is $200. $400 is the NZD price.
Up. That is what I am looking for in my Table Top Games. The rules being as simple as they are makes that really easy to play.
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