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Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/22 16:17:09


Post by: Mr_Rose


 Lord Damocles wrote:
The Hexmark looks like a videogame boss with a glowing weakspot on his back.

Yeah, that thing has to go. Fortunately, I haz bitz so it’ll be fine. Just replace it with the optional glowy-bit from the barge prow.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/22 16:18:53


Post by: Red Corsair


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So who think a this will be a dual-build kit with The Skoropekh Destroyer Lord?


Nope.

GW does single pose clam pack characters for outrageous prices now.

He's neat but as soon as I read enmitic pistols I kind of sighed. Hopefully they are better then the other versions though.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/22 16:48:07


Post by: Sasori


 Red Corsair wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So who think a this will be a dual-build kit with The Skoropekh Destroyer Lord?


Nope.

GW does single pose clam pack characters for outrageous prices now.

He's neat but as soon as I read enmitic pistols I kind of sighed. Hopefully they are better then the other versions though.


The Enmitic weapons are a serious concern. The one on the Skorpekh Lord is fine, since it's more of a bonus to his CC oriented. The one on the Lokhust makes zero sense.

I'm holding out for Damage 2 on these....


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/22 16:59:34


Post by: BrotherGecko


It will either need solid ap or do d2 minimum. Unless it's dirt cheap or has some buffing auras for destroyers.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/22 17:15:29


Post by: Unusual Suspect


Tyel wrote:
"I've been trained in your pistol arts by Billy the Nid".


"Hello there!"

"Inquisitor Clousseau!"


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/22 17:22:36


Post by: Platuan4th


 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Tyel wrote:
"I've been trained in your pistol arts by Billy the Nid".


"Hello there!"

"Inquisitor Clousseau!"


You joke, but finally getting a model of Obi Wan Sherlock Clousseau would be AWESOME.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/22 17:50:48


Post by: Tastyfish


 Mr_Rose wrote:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
The Hexmark looks like a videogame boss with a glowing weakspot on his back.

Yeah, that thing has to go. Fortunately, I haz bitz so it’ll be fine. Just replace it with the optional glowy-bit from the barge prow.


Or redo it as an Omniscient Eye, letting him shoot in 360 degrees.

As for pistols, I reckon S6 Ap-1 D1...very maybe 2.

He's not going to be great without some fancy strat.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/22 18:28:04


Post by: Red Corsair


 Sasori wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So who think a this will be a dual-build kit with The Skoropekh Destroyer Lord?


Nope.

GW does single pose clam pack characters for outrageous prices now.

He's neat but as soon as I read enmitic pistols I kind of sighed. Hopefully they are better then the other versions though.


The Enmitic weapons are a serious concern. The one on the Skorpekh Lord is fine, since it's more of a bonus to his CC oriented. The one on the Lokhust makes zero sense.

I'm holding out for Damage 2 on these....


I play GSC and the kellermorph having autostubs that are D2 would make these being damage 1 pretty hilarious and irritating. But honestly I bet it is only D1, we have seen bigger heavier versions already and they are all D1 similar to how tesla scales. Whats more is like tesla emnitic weapons seem to have ap-1 D1 and scale with number of shots and strength and these are clearly pistols, so I am betting they are at most pistol 2 each (12 shots like billy the nid) proabably also S5 and -1.

But remember hes a destroyer and a deathmark, so he will likely have BS2+ and reroll hits via hardwired hatred, and natural 6's to wound most likely cause a mortal wound in addition. He probably also can target characters.

My best guess.

He has 6, 12" range Pistol 2 Strength 5 AP -1 shots that cause a mortal wound in addition on a 6. Can target characters.

Which I think will be fun, but really will depend on his price tag whether or not he will see a lot of play.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/22 18:49:58


Post by: Sasori


The stream confirmed them to have 6 strength 6 shots "With Some AP"



Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/22 18:56:20


Post by: Nicorex


Plus assume the shoot again mechanic works like others of a similar vein so he can only shoot again once per kill.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/22 19:47:03


Post by: Red Corsair


 Sasori wrote:
The stream confirmed them to have 6 strength 6 shots "With Some AP"



Oh.... not great, maybe his special rules are solid


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/22 20:21:46


Post by: Sasori


 Red Corsair wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
The stream confirmed them to have 6 strength 6 shots "With Some AP"



Oh.... not great, maybe his special rules are solid


yeah, I am hoping for some kind of overcharge or special rules or Damage 2 base.

These are just way too cool not to use!


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/22 22:21:33


Post by: torblind


Well often he gets too shot twice, that's effectively D2 in some cases, and D1 when you need that instead.

Shoot marines, kill one, shoot again, kill one more.

Or

Shoot Orks, kill 5, shoot again, kill 5 more.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/23 14:28:28


Post by: tneva82


Lol at expecting pistol version to get d2 when heavier versions don't have it.

He's there to further ensure nobody plays their light infantry and buys new models to replace them


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/23 17:46:53


Post by: lord_blackfang


And what does it say about the health of the game when a single model with 6 shots hitting on 2+ rerollable and generating additional attacks is deemed worthless without D2...


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/23 18:01:02


Post by: JWBS


From my own outsider perspective, the game looks pretty stupid in general tbh. Why so many re-rolls on everything? When I used to play (a very long time ago), you'd hit on a 3, wound on a 3, and they might save. But now there's a re-roll on everything. Seems they want to heavily reduce the chance that anything will fail? Why? I don't want to sound like a Boomer, but was it too upsetting for people when their little soldiers missed their shots?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/23 18:24:06


Post by: dr_sarcasm


JWBS wrote:
From my own outsider perspective, the game looks pretty stupid in general tbh. Why so many re-rolls on everything? When I used to play (a very long time ago), you'd hit on a 3, wound on a 3, and they might save. But now there's a re-roll on everything. Seems they want to heavily reduce the chance that anything will fail? Why? I don't want to sound like a Boomer, but was it too upsetting for people when their little soldiers missed their shots?


Although I'm not as of yet convinced the game is entirely stupid, I like yourself haven't played the game in well over a decade. Agreed, the sheer number of re-rolls is amusing given back in the day, yup, it was one roll. One roll determined if you hit, missed, saved, etc. (I just found my scatter dice...remember those?). Watching some of these online battle reports makes me chuckle as it appears as though there's dozens of rolls for just one unit, and games that used to take an hour, hour and a half now appear to take 3 hours or so. I guess this is considered progress?

But enough about us boomers, we return you to your regularly scheduled program.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/23 18:55:57


Post by: torblind


 lord_blackfang wrote:
And what does it say about the health of the game when a single model with 6 shots hitting on 2+ rerollable and generating additional attacks is deemed worthless without D2...


Is worthless the current verdict?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/23 19:05:00


Post by: tneva82


torblind wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
And what does it say about the health of the game when a single model with 6 shots hitting on 2+ rerollable and generating additional attacks is deemed worthless without D2...


Is worthless the current verdict?


With dam1 pretty irrelevant. 6 hits, 4 wounds, 2 past save, 1 dead, 1 extra shot. Gee.

It's only useful against light infantry. That already went irrelevant in 9th


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/23 19:12:36


Post by: torblind


Is it an extra shot only? I imagined it was a round of shooting


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/23 19:23:17


Post by: lord_blackfang


torblind wrote:
Is it an extra shot only? I imagined it was a round of shooting


One shot per kill. So you're likely to mow down an IG squad, but not marines.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/23 22:11:18


Post by: BrianDavion


 lord_blackfang wrote:
And what does it say about the health of the game when a single model with 6 shots hitting on 2+ rerollable and generating additional attacks is deemed worthless without D2...


It says to me people have to stop insisting a unit is worthless unless it can specificly be tailored to kill Marines.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 02:24:08


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


BrianDavion wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
And what does it say about the health of the game when a single model with 6 shots hitting on 2+ rerollable and generating additional attacks is deemed worthless without D2...


It says to me people have to stop insisting a unit is worthless unless it can specificly be tailored to kill Marines.

The army doesn't need help killing GEQ, especially when it's more expensive than a Guardsman itself.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 05:55:58


Post by: tneva82


BrianDavion wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
And what does it say about the health of the game when a single model with 6 shots hitting on 2+ rerollable and generating additional attacks is deemed worthless without D2...


It says to me people have to stop insisting a unit is worthless unless it can specificly be tailored to kill Marines.


It's not even marines anymore. In 9th you either are multi wound or super durable otherway around or you are irrelevant. This model is edition too late. What it's good at killing is no more relevant worry.

It would at least bare minimum need to be extra shot per unsaved damage. Now it's just another hint "don't take light infantry" for those deaf enough to miss gw's yell


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 06:18:40


Post by: BrianDavion


Man we don't even have stats for this yet and people are already claiming it's worthless


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 06:25:58


Post by: tneva82


Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 07:19:59


Post by: Dudeface


tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)


Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 07:36:56


Post by: Snugiraffe


dr_sarcasm wrote:
JWBS wrote:
From my own outsider perspective, the game looks pretty stupid in general tbh. Why so many re-rolls on everything? When I used to play (a very long time ago), you'd hit on a 3, wound on a 3, and they might save. But now there's a re-roll on everything. Seems they want to heavily reduce the chance that anything will fail? Why? I don't want to sound like a Boomer, but was it too upsetting for people when their little soldiers missed their shots?


Although I'm not as of yet convinced the game is entirely stupid, I like yourself haven't played the game in well over a decade. Agreed, the sheer number of re-rolls is amusing given back in the day, yup, it was one roll. One roll determined if you hit, missed, saved, etc. (I just found my scatter dice...remember those?). Watching some of these online battle reports makes me chuckle as it appears as though there's dozens of rolls for just one unit, and games that used to take an hour, hour and a half now appear to take 3 hours or so. I guess this is considered progress?

But enough about us boomers, we return you to your regularly scheduled program.


If you're highly competitive, you hate randomness because you can't predict your results. The more re-rolls you get, the more 'solvable' the game becomes. That's my theory, anyhow. I do like using my Flawless Host Dark Apostle to re-roll all my *hits* in order to fish for 6s, though, but that's probably because it's a perversion of the aforementioned mitigation of randomness, haha!


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 08:03:17


Post by: Tastyfish


tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)


A linked strat could certainly add a bit more utility. Whilst I think it's been given a strange niche (necron's aren't really short on anti-light infantry with tesla etc), and probably far from an auto include, if it's close to regular skorpek destroyer price - 40pts and had something that either applied penalties to hit, movement or maybe even morale on a unit it shot at, it might find a place.

It has a 63% chance of causing at least two wounds on a MEq, so if there's something decent that keys of that and it's cheap enough...



Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 08:31:51


Post by: Tyel


If it was 40 points its an auto-include every day of the week. Maybe some negativity on attrition/grind them down - or assassinate if its a character - but you'd take 3, go clear out backfield objectives. Its a fire and forget missile at that points cost.

Given Billy the Nid is 80 points though, and this model's relative size and bulk, I'd be very surprised. I think something in the 100-120 range is more likely - with some reasonably potent defenses. Which is where you get into issues, because there is only so many ways you can square killing 7 guardsmen, or a single marine, with that points cost, unless there are considerable additional special rules.

But its too early to tell really.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 10:15:13


Post by: BrianDavion


Dudeface wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)


Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.


because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 10:57:01


Post by: Tastyfish


Tyel wrote:
If it was 40 points its an auto-include every day of the week. Maybe some negativity on attrition/grind them down - or assassinate if its a character - but you'd take 3, go clear out backfield objectives. Its a fire and forget missile at that points cost.

Given Billy the Nid is 80 points though, and this model's relative size and bulk, I'd be very surprised. I think something in the 100-120 range is more likely - with some reasonably potent defenses. Which is where you get into issues, because there is only so many ways you can square killing 7 guardsmen, or a single marine, with that points cost, unless there are considerable additional special rules.

But its too early to tell really.


Kellermorphs get the ability to shoot characters, which I don't think the Hexmark does (given how it was described in the preview), and have D2 on their guns.
It's 40pts for a Destroyer with a hyperphase thresher or reap-blade, and I think we're looking that size of chasis rather than a Lord - being a characters going to bump up the cost, but that might not be charged at quite as much of a premium given it deepstrikes and has a 12" range.

I reckon it'll be more in the region of 60-80pts (and just a bit too much). But you're right - it's far to early to be sure.

I also think with the number of new EtB kits coming out it might be time to let go of the idea that everything makes dual kits, so it will probably be it's own thing rather than an alt build of either of the other scorpeks.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 11:12:56


Post by: Dudeface


BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)


Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.


because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point


This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 11:42:55


Post by: BrianDavion


Dudeface wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)


Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.


because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point


This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.


no no, MARINES are judged on how many guardsmen they can kill. it's fair because reasons!


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 13:47:19


Post by: Red Corsair


Wow you boys really showed em.

I mean, what duhfuses for using the current top of the meta as the yard stick. I mean, it's such an insult to them too.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 14:08:57


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Dudeface wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)


Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.


because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point


This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

Looks like you're purposely trying to forget that Necrons need no help killing GEQ but okay.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 14:44:39


Post by: Cryptek of Awesome


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)


Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.


because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point


This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

Looks like you're purposely trying to forget that Necrons need no help killing GEQ but okay.


Exactly.
Seems only logical that people are going to be judging a new unit by whether or not it helps them do something that the army struggles with.
Personally - I like the idea of keeping him in reserve until there's a nice juicy wounded unit holding a far-off objective and he can swoop in and save the day. That's the dream.
But I have to temper that with every 9th ed Necrons v Marines battle report I've watched where Necrons get utterly blown off the table. There is no cute little late-game objective battles, just can you kill marines and Repulsors fast enough to have anything left standing.
And of course a lot will have to be reevaluated in October.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 15:33:49


Post by: Dudeface


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)


Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.


because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point


This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

Looks like you're purposely trying to forget that Necrons need no help killing GEQ but okay.


And st5 ap -2 30" guns on a t5 troop aren't good at injuring marines? Or the d2 rods of covenant? I think the issue is they're showing a unit designed for clearing out soft/depleted backfield units and people are expecting it to clear 10 man primaris units single handedly. It's purpose is for killing those low number squishing, whinging it isn't great at dropping core troop marines is ignoring what it's being advertised as.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 17:02:52


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)


Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.


because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point


This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

Looks like you're purposely trying to forget that Necrons need no help killing GEQ but okay.


And st5 ap -2 30" guns on a t5 troop aren't good at injuring marines? Or the d2 rods of covenant? I think the issue is they're showing a unit designed for clearing out soft/depleted backfield units and people are expecting it to clear 10 man primaris units single handedly. It's purpose is for killing those low number squishing, whinging it isn't great at dropping core troop marines is ignoring what it's being advertised as.

....which is already something the army had with Tesla. Again, the army doesn't need help killing GEQ or "depleted" units.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 17:08:49


Post by: Dudeface


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)


Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.


because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point


This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

Looks like you're purposely trying to forget that Necrons need no help killing GEQ but okay.


And st5 ap -2 30" guns on a t5 troop aren't good at injuring marines? Or the d2 rods of covenant? I think the issue is they're showing a unit designed for clearing out soft/depleted backfield units and people are expecting it to clear 10 man primaris units single handedly. It's purpose is for killing those low number squishing, whinging it isn't great at dropping core troop marines is ignoring what it's being advertised as.

....which is already something the army had with Tesla. Again, the army doesn't need help killing GEQ or "depleted" units.


Maybe not, but that doesn't mean it is objectively bad, nor that it should by default be expected to be clearing units of marines. If it can pop out and take down a couple of eliminators or hellblasters in the back line then contest an objective or make your opponent pivot to deal with it, that's adding value, especially now deathmarks are back line snipers


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 17:13:42


Post by: Tastyfish


A hellblaster probably, even if it take two shots to take one down it'll almost certainly only get one extra shot.

I could see space for a fast teleporting infantry unit if it's cheap enough. Able to do it's pistol thing, but also the various infantry only secondaries.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 17:16:18


Post by: BrotherGecko


Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)


Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.


because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point


This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

Looks like you're purposely trying to forget that Necrons need no help killing GEQ but okay.


And st5 ap -2 30" guns on a t5 troop aren't good at injuring marines? Or the d2 rods of covenant? I think the issue is they're showing a unit designed for clearing out soft/depleted backfield units and people are expecting it to clear 10 man primaris units single handedly. It's purpose is for killing those low number squishing, whinging it isn't great at dropping core troop marines is ignoring what it's being advertised as.

....which is already something the army had with Tesla. Again, the army doesn't need help killing GEQ or "depleted" units.


Maybe not, but that doesn't mean it is objectively bad, nor that it should by default be expected to be clearing units of marines. If it can pop out and take down a couple of eliminators or hellblasters in the back line then contest an objective or make your opponent pivot to deal with it, that's adding value, especially now deathmarks are back line snipers


Rules as suspected, it can't pop up and clear out some eliminators unless it can ignore cover and maybe killing a single hellblaster isn't going to shift the tide.

It needs to be a serious treat to a MSU intercessor squad for which it will most likely be pointed at.

All I would like is for it to reliably kill 3 marines with hot dice smoking up to 5.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 19:56:17


Post by: cuda1179


Tyel wrote:
If it was 40 points its an auto-include every day of the week. Maybe some negativity on attrition/grind them down - or assassinate if its a character - but you'd take 3, go clear out backfield objectives. Its a fire and forget missile at that points cost.

Given Billy the Nid is 80 points though, and this model's relative size and bulk, I'd be very surprised. I think something in the 100-120 range is more likely - with some reasonably potent defenses. Which is where you get into issues, because there is only so many ways you can square killing 7 guardsmen, or a single marine, with that points cost, unless there are considerable additional special rules.

But its too early to tell really.


I'd like for it to have it's own personal version of the Ghostwalk mantle (oldschool VoD), but that would be too much to ask. That being said, 3 of these guys and a couple teleported in units of Immortals would make for a decent alpha strike.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 20:23:46


Post by: MajorWesJanson


I'm just sitting here, disgruntled that another week goes by without the Firestrike Turret, Lokhust Destroyer and friends release


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 22:18:05


Post by: Tastyfish


Aren't we expecting them in some strange box set, or is that just people not recognising the new codex format?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 22:20:09


Post by: Kanluwen


 Tastyfish wrote:
Aren't we expecting them in some strange box set, or is that just people not recognising the new codex format?

We are not.

These items were said to be releasing after the starter sets. Going off past bits, we're likely looking at the first Saturday of September for the preorders.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 22:25:35


Post by: Blastaar


BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)


Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.


because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point


Did someone actually make this statement?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 22:35:45


Post by: Tastyfish


 Kanluwen wrote:
 Tastyfish wrote:
Aren't we expecting them in some strange box set, or is that just people not recognising the new codex format?

We are not.

These items were said to be releasing after the starter sets. Going off past bits, we're likely looking at the first Saturday of September for the preorders.


I was thinking back to the datasheets that seemed to be very light on abilities, there was some speculation that these weren't codex pages with Canoptek Doomstalkers and Lokhust destroyers on the same page, the latter with no resurrection protocols or destroyer cult rules (or even keywords).
No faction specific detailing to the pages either, which makes me think it's not the codex (can't see us going back to having bestiary sections) - wouldn't surprise me to see if they were in something like a "reinforcements" box. Unless they've been super sneaky and this is from the Pariah Nexus sourcebook?



Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 22:54:33


Post by: Ghaz


 Tastyfish wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Tastyfish wrote:
Aren't we expecting them in some strange box set, or is that just people not recognising the new codex format?

We are not.

These items were said to be releasing after the starter sets. Going off past bits, we're likely looking at the first Saturday of September for the preorders.


I was thinking back to the datasheets that seemed to be very light on abilities, there was some speculation that these weren't codex pages with Canoptek Doomstalkers and Lokhust destroyers on the same page, the latter with no resurrection protocols or destroyer cult rules (or even keywords).
No faction specific detailing to the pages either, which makes me think it's not the codex (can't see us going back to having bestiary sections) - wouldn't surprise me to see if they were in something like a "reinforcements" box. Unless they've been super sneaky and this is from the Pariah Nexus sourcebook?

Spoiler:

I thought it was confirmed those were from the starter boxes...

Datasheets provide you with rules for all the models in the set, plus a set of expansion options for when you want to branch out with new kits.




Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 22:55:49


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Those two units, along with the turret and go-kart, are included at the back of each of the booklets that come with the three new starter sets.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/24 23:50:40


Post by: Voss


 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I'm just sitting here, disgruntled that another week goes by without the Firestrike Turret, Lokhust Destroyer and friends release

A post edition recharge break is perfectly normal and sensible.

Especially so with the current backlog.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/25 01:37:33


Post by: JWBS


I'm hoping the bike Chaplain and Primaris Techmarine aren't too far from release.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/25 02:01:02


Post by: Saturmorn Carvilli


MajorWesJanson wrote:I'm just sitting here, disgruntled that another week goes by without the Firestrike Turret, Lokhust Destroyer and friends release


Remember how long ago LVO was this year? I have been waiting for Lumineth Realm Lords to be released since about then. I'm not sure you should be all that disgruntled having to wait a month or two. Just sayin'.

Kanluwen wrote:These items were said to be releasing after the starter sets. Going off past bits, we're likely looking at the first Saturday of September for the preorders.


Very unlikely. The entirely of the Lumineth still have to be released as well as the Gargant model kit. I personally wouldn't expect to see any of the new space marine or necron models until much closer to when their respective codex is also released. Late September is possible, but I am thinking it will be more like October.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/25 02:31:08


Post by: Kanluwen


I'm not expecting the Lumineth stuff to start until week two, at least, for September. Thinking it will be set up in waves of Alarith(Stonemage, Stoneguard, and the Stonehearts), Vanari(Wardens, Sentinels, Dawnriders) with the Scinari Cathaller, then Teclis and Light of Eltharion to round it out?

With that said, it wouldn't be impossible for the easy build 40k stuff to launch alongside the Lumineth.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/25 02:41:43


Post by: BrianDavion


I'd not be suprised to see a handful of ETB marine stuff releasing in sept and those'll be our only 40k releases with the bulk of the month being AOS


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/25 02:48:21


Post by: Voss


BrianDavion wrote:
I'd not be suprised to see a handful of ETB marine stuff releasing in sept and those'll be our only 40k releases with the bulk of the month being AOS

Yeah, that's kinda what I expect as well. Maybe plans changed due to... everything, but the CA points and starter set profiles set up the ETB kits for marines and necrons as releases between starter sets and codex.
The previews of them suggest that may still be the case.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/25 03:10:40


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Sadly I don't think the Bike Chaplain is ETB.

Shame, I want him to lead my Outriders.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/25 03:52:43


Post by: MadcapMiguel


because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point


Why would you compare Necrons to anything in their current state? We are an incomplete force, we were left out of PA and our codex is still a few months away.
No other faction can claim that, we might as well be an index army.

If you still have concerns when the codex hits - voice them then.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/25 04:55:53


Post by: tneva82


 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm not expecting the Lumineth stuff to start until week two, at least, for September. Thinking it will be set up in waves of Alarith(Stonemage, Stoneguard, and the Stonehearts), Vanari(Wardens, Sentinels, Dawnriders) with the Scinari Cathaller, then Teclis and Light of Eltharion to round it out?

With that said, it wouldn't be impossible for the easy build 40k stuff to launch alongside the Lumineth.


Novel comes to preorder 5th. Unless gw has habit of releasing tie in before actual product odds are good they come in 5th. And there's not that many kits(about 10) to be more than 2 weeks sensibly. Bonereapers got about same or more in 1 week. And with corona catchup more likely to put 2 weeks to 1 than spread it out.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/26 12:47:23


Post by: Irbis


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sadly I don't think the Bike Chaplain is ETB.

Shame, I want him to lead my Outriders.

Seeing Astreia Solbright, his closest AoS equivalent is, I have no idea how you reached that conclusion. Especially seeing that of all SM leaders, Chaplains have the least options so having him out of all the possibilities be ETB is pretty reasonable choice.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/26 12:55:18


Post by: Kanluwen


tneva82 wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm not expecting the Lumineth stuff to start until week two, at least, for September. Thinking it will be set up in waves of Alarith(Stonemage, Stoneguard, and the Stonehearts), Vanari(Wardens, Sentinels, Dawnriders) with the Scinari Cathaller, then Teclis and Light of Eltharion to round it out?

With that said, it wouldn't be impossible for the easy build 40k stuff to launch alongside the Lumineth.


Novel comes to preorder 5th. Unless gw has habit of releasing tie in before actual product odds are good they come in 5th. And there's not that many kits(about 10) to be more than 2 weeks sensibly. Bonereapers got about same or more in 1 week. And with corona catchup more likely to put 2 weeks to 1 than spread it out.

Fair enough. I didn't remember if we had a date for the novel yet.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/26 13:49:38


Post by: EnTyme


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoiler:
Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)


Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.


because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point


This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

Looks like you're purposely trying to forget that Necrons need no help killing GEQ but okay.


And st5 ap -2 30" guns on a t5 troop aren't good at injuring marines? Or the d2 rods of covenant? I think the issue is they're showing a unit designed for clearing out soft/depleted backfield units and people are expecting it to clear 10 man primaris units single handedly. It's purpose is for killing those low number squishing, whinging it isn't great at dropping core troop marines is ignoring what it's being advertised as.

....which is already something the army had with Tesla. Again, the army doesn't need help killing GEQ or "depleted" units.


Regardless of what the army "needs", this is what we were given. You're still judging a fish by its ability to climb trees.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/26 14:05:42


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 EnTyme wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoiler:
Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well we know the key ones. Are you really thinking WS or LD is going to make a difference?-) Or that it's going to have super hyper mega h2h weapon and rather than shooting you are going to charge into melee slaughtering 10 primaris in a heartbeat?-)


Why does it even have to? It's meant for popping out and clearing 10 man guard/grot/gaunts etc. Units that are sat on objectives. You keep saying "oh but light infantry is dead", well I hate to break it to you but many armies have no choice but to put light infantry on objectives since they're the only troop choices for their armies.


because everything has to kill an entire squad of Marines in one turn or it's "worthless" that's always been the judging point


This forums wild marine allergy is slowly getting out of hand. Wait until tneva realises 10 marines don't wipe 10 marines, oxymoron of them being the best units in existence but worthless will be amazing.

Looks like you're purposely trying to forget that Necrons need no help killing GEQ but okay.


And st5 ap -2 30" guns on a t5 troop aren't good at injuring marines? Or the d2 rods of covenant? I think the issue is they're showing a unit designed for clearing out soft/depleted backfield units and people are expecting it to clear 10 man primaris units single handedly. It's purpose is for killing those low number squishing, whinging it isn't great at dropping core troop marines is ignoring what it's being advertised as.

....which is already something the army had with Tesla. Again, the army doesn't need help killing GEQ or "depleted" units.


Regardless of what the army "needs", this is what we were given. You're still judging a fish by its ability to climb trees.

If the army needs something to climb trees though what good is another fish?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/26 19:45:35


Post by: EnTyme


That's a completely different discussion all together. There's a lot that Necrons need. The Hexmark may or may not fit that description. The current discussion at hand is "how good is the Hexmark at clearing backline GEQs"? It seems to be capable of doing that just fine.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/26 20:44:50


Post by: Platuan4th


 Irbis wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sadly I don't think the Bike Chaplain is ETB.

Shame, I want him to lead my Outriders.

Seeing Astreia Solbright, his closest AoS equivalent is, I have no idea how you reached that conclusion. Especially seeing that of all SM leaders, Chaplains have the least options so having him out of all the possibilities be ETB is pretty reasonable choice.


Because unlike all other articles GW includes ETB in, it wasn't stated to be ETB.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/26 22:19:43


Post by: MajorWesJanson


I plan to grab several of the chaplain bikes. 2 chapters to give them too, and hopefully gw will make more biker characters, like captain and chaos lord, de archon, custodes shield captain, and ork warboss. At a minimum.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/27 00:38:43


Post by: BrianDavion


 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I plan to grab several of the chaplain bikes. 2 chapters to give them too, and hopefully gw will make more biker characters, like captain and chaos lord, de archon, custodes shield captain, and ork warboss. At a minimum.


characters on bikes are such popular HQ choices GW really should double down on it a bit


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/27 03:55:08


Post by: Dysartes


 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I plan to grab several of the chaplain bikes. 2 chapters to give them too, and hopefully gw will make more biker characters, like captain and chaos lord, de archon, custodes shield captain, and ork warboss. At a minimum.


Erm - isn't the Custodes Shield Captain already covered by the jetbike kit as it is?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/27 06:40:47


Post by: Mr_Rose


 Dysartes wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I plan to grab several of the chaplain bikes. 2 chapters to give them too, and hopefully gw will make more biker characters, like captain and chaos lord, de archon, custodes shield captain, and ork warboss. At a minimum.


Erm - isn't the Custodes Shield Captain already covered by the jetbike kit as it is?

Yeah, but that’s absolutely no reason why it can’t also be covered by an extra-fancy stand-alone version at 2-3 times the price, is it?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/27 09:42:17


Post by: BrianDavion


 Mr_Rose wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I plan to grab several of the chaplain bikes. 2 chapters to give them too, and hopefully gw will make more biker characters, like captain and chaos lord, de archon, custodes shield captain, and ork warboss. At a minimum.


Erm - isn't the Custodes Shield Captain already covered by the jetbike kit as it is?

Yeah, but that’s absolutely no reason why it can’t also be covered by an extra-fancy stand-alone version at 2-3 times the price, is it?

ohh totally! I'd love to buy a stand alone captain for 5 bucks less then I'd buy a box of the normal bikes! what a great idea!


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/27 19:42:10


Post by: Mr_Rose


BrianDavion wrote:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I plan to grab several of the chaplain bikes. 2 chapters to give them too, and hopefully gw will make more biker characters, like captain and chaos lord, de archon, custodes shield captain, and ork warboss. At a minimum.


Erm - isn't the Custodes Shield Captain already covered by the jetbike kit as it is?

Yeah, but that’s absolutely no reason why it can’t also be covered by an extra-fancy stand-alone version at 2-3 times the price, is it?

ohh totally! I'd love to buy a stand alone captain for 5 bucks less then I'd buy a box of the normal bikes! what a great idea!

That’s the spirit! Remember, the more you spend on plastic crack, the less you can spend on actual crack so really they’re doing you a favour.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/27 20:25:28


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 Dysartes wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I plan to grab several of the chaplain bikes. 2 chapters to give them too, and hopefully gw will make more biker characters, like captain and chaos lord, de archon, custodes shield captain, and ork warboss. At a minimum.


Erm - isn't the Custodes Shield Captain already covered by the jetbike kit as it is?


And the normal shield captains are covered by the terminator and custodian guard kits. At least the custodian guard and wardens have a nice cape bit. But it would be nice to have a unique model for the hqs. I mean you can make a space marine lieutenant out of the primaris kit, but they still make 12 of them.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/27 23:12:07


Post by: changemod


BrianDavion wrote:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I plan to grab several of the chaplain bikes. 2 chapters to give them too, and hopefully gw will make more biker characters, like captain and chaos lord, de archon, custodes shield captain, and ork warboss. At a minimum.


Erm - isn't the Custodes Shield Captain already covered by the jetbike kit as it is?

Yeah, but that’s absolutely no reason why it can’t also be covered by an extra-fancy stand-alone version at 2-3 times the price, is it?

ohh totally! I'd love to buy a stand alone captain for 5 bucks less then I'd buy a box of the normal bikes! what a great idea!


Unironically? Yes. A thousand times yes. I’ve had some unbuilt custodes bikers for years in part because I can’t think of a good way to convert the shield captain to be distinct when the model is already so ornate. They simply didn’t include any parts in the box to indicate one beyond the atom-thin “Uh, sometimes HQs don’t wear helmets?”


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/28 01:41:48


Post by: BrianDavion


changemod wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I plan to grab several of the chaplain bikes. 2 chapters to give them too, and hopefully gw will make more biker characters, like captain and chaos lord, de archon, custodes shield captain, and ork warboss. At a minimum.


Erm - isn't the Custodes Shield Captain already covered by the jetbike kit as it is?

Yeah, but that’s absolutely no reason why it can’t also be covered by an extra-fancy stand-alone version at 2-3 times the price, is it?

ohh totally! I'd love to buy a stand alone captain for 5 bucks less then I'd buy a box of the normal bikes! what a great idea!


Unironically? Yes. A thousand times yes. I’ve had some unbuilt custodes bikers for years in part because I can’t think of a good way to convert the shield captain to be distinct when the model is already so ornate. They simply didn’t include any parts in the box to indicate one beyond the atom-thin “Uh, sometimes HQs don’t wear helmets?”

Maybe GW could release an upgrade pack.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/08/28 15:18:27


Post by: Irbis


changemod wrote:
Unironically? Yes. A thousand times yes. I’ve had some unbuilt custodes bikers for years in part because I can’t think of a good way to convert the shield captain to be distinct when the model is already so ornate. They simply didn’t include any parts in the box to indicate one beyond the atom-thin “Uh, sometimes HQs don’t wear helmets?”

You could grab single FW custode bike - they are butt ugly compared to plastics (and FW custode paint scheme is frakking awful, they are blind if they think it looks like gold) but it does stand out nicely. Or that DA jet bike, it's cheaper and equally ornate and standing out option, with similar flowing robes style custodes have.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Because unlike all other articles GW includes ETB in, it wasn't stated to be ETB.

And? We know it exists because he was on leaked list of EtB kits. He might not be EtB himself but then his presence there would be weird and more reasonable guess is that it's in fact EtB or EtB-like kit.

Also, watch idiot rules writers not give it to Deathwatch AGAIN despite having common book now because pad is attached to arm by thin strip of plastic or other similar nonsense DW gets all the time


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/04 17:47:53


Post by: Sasori


Looks like we will get a battle report in the September White Dwarf using the new Necron and Space Marine rules

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/04/white-dwarf-preview-issue-456/


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/04 17:56:58


Post by: Kanluwen


 Sasori wrote:
Looks like we will get a battle report in the September White Dwarf using the new Necron and Space Marine rules

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/04/white-dwarf-preview-issue-456/

Novel "The Infinite and the Divine" is October 3rd, so betting on the Necron stuff starting then.
There's a series of Marine anthologies/novels on October 31st. Deathwatch and BA...so thinking they'll be the first supplements?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/04 19:24:57


Post by: JohnnyHell


 Sasori wrote:
Looks like we will get a battle report in the September White Dwarf using the new Necron and Space Marine rules

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/04/white-dwarf-preview-issue-456/


Or just those in the Indomitus box, given the rest of the index info and Edge Of Silence being the name of the pamphlet in the Indomitus box.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/04 19:48:29


Post by: tneva82


Yep odds of using new codex rules is astronomically low.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/04 19:53:16


Post by: Sasori


Heavy Destroyer upgrade kit is fully gone from the US webstore now. That seems to confirm for those that were still in doubt that the Lokhust Heave Destroyer kit is replacing it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
Yep odds of using new codex rules is astronomically low.


They've done battle report previews before like this, I remember the Lumineth one from earlier in the year. I don't think the chance is that low.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/04 20:01:25


Post by: tneva82


That army book was already out...all rules known. I only need to turn my head couple degrees and i see the book. It's hardly same to have br of army whose army book is out than br of army books over month later out


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/04 20:16:36


Post by: Sasori


tneva82 wrote:
That army book was already out...all rules known. I only need to turn my head couple degrees and i see the book. It's hardly same to have br of army whose army book is out than br of army books over month later out


I must be misremebering, I thought the book was not out yet when that Batrep came out.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/04 20:17:58


Post by: GoatboyBeta


 Sasori wrote:
Heavy Destroyer upgrade kit is fully gone from the US webstore now. That seems to confirm for those that were still in doubt that the Lokhust Heave Destroyer kit is replacing it.


Thank the star gods for that The move to finecast was especially rough on that kit. Next big question is what happens to the regular Destroyers and the Lord?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/04 20:19:57


Post by: tneva82


WD was out in june. Same as the box with the book. Battle report containing rules released same month isn't weird. That's the usual advertisement. Battle report using rules in future month release less so. As it is don't recall one.

Pretty much only possible scenario that could be so would be corona delay doing oddities. That's why I'm not saying it's flat out impossible. Just unlikely.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/04 20:33:42


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Things are also screwed up in terms of release windows due to Covid.

Pretty sure this is the longest gap twixt edition and flagship Codexes.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/07 08:18:13


Post by: JWBS


This video says codex preview and new minis on Saturday, idk if that means new new minis or just stuff that's already been glimpsed, hopefully it's new stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngt3iB6t1rY&ab_channel=Warhammer


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/07 08:51:21


Post by: BrianDavion


I bet the silver templars will use some of the options from the new codex for sucessor chapters


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/07 10:13:42


Post by: Overread


I would wager new miniatures would be new models that they teased for other races last time.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/07 11:22:40


Post by: Gaen


Hoping for an announcement of an early october release.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/07 11:32:06


Post by: BrianDavion


I just hope they don't drag the marine unit release out for 3 months like last time


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/07 12:15:36


Post by: Tavis75


Gaen wrote:
Hoping for an announcement of an early october release.


As someone pointed out above, there is a Necron novel due to go on pre-order on the 3rd of October, so that seems a likely date for the start of the Necron pre-orders, as GW seem to quite often release novels alongside their respective armies. A bit of a surprise as I expected the Space Marines to be first, but maybe that's not the case this time.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/07 15:42:06


Post by: Gaen


Tavis75 wrote:
Gaen wrote:
Hoping for an announcement of an early october release.


As someone pointed out above, there is a Necron novel due to go on pre-order on the 3rd of October, so that seems a likely date for the start of the Necron pre-orders, as GW seem to quite often release novels alongside their respective armies. A bit of a surprise as I expected the Space Marines to be first, but maybe that's not the case this time.

I was under the impression that they would release both at the same time?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/07 16:00:32


Post by: tneva82


Gw has just said october. which is 5 weeks so all we know for sure is preorder is between 3.10 and 31.10

Historically i don't think gw has ever releasea 2 codex same week. Aos battletome yes, 40k codex no. And aos ones been largely one basically book only unlike marine and necron


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/07 19:55:20


Post by: Sasori


tneva82 wrote:
Gw has just said october. which is 5 weeks so all we know for sure is preorder is between 3.10 and 31.10

Historically i don't think gw has ever releasea 2 codex same week. Aos battletome yes, 40k codex no. And aos ones been largely one basically book only unlike marine and necron



I wouldn't be shocked if we start seeing some 40k releases similar to how they Did the AoS battletomes to move everything up to 2nd edition.

Two dexes and some hero models (Maybe Terrain?) or something, to get the new codexes out the door. Mix in some larger codex releases for their own week or weeks and that would hopefully get everyone up to speed somewhat quickly.


That being said, we know this is a huge release. I am wondering if they are going to structure it any different than what we have seen in the past.





Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/07 20:01:18


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


tneva82 wrote:
Gw has just said october. which is 5 weeks so all we know for sure is preorder is between 3.10 and 31.10

Historically i don't think gw has ever releasea 2 codex same week. Aos battletome yes, 40k codex no. And aos ones been largely one basically book only unlike marine and necron


Release of the two Codexes may have been delayed due to Covid and the impact on shipping. As I mentioned in an earlier post, this has been the longest gap I can think between a new edition and the flagship Codexes.

If I’m right (and I’m probably not, to be fair), compacting the releases to a single week does make sense, as it allows them to catch up releases, and reassume whatever the original plan might’ve been.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/07 20:09:19


Post by: Dudeface


tneva82 wrote:
Gw has just said october. which is 5 weeks so all we know for sure is preorder is between 3.10 and 31.10

Historically i don't think gw has ever releasea 2 codex same week. Aos battletome yes, 40k codex no. And aos ones been largely one basically book only unlike marine and necron


Weren't chaos marines and grey knights the same week?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/07 20:12:48


Post by: BrianDavion


Dudeface wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Gw has just said october. which is 5 weeks so all we know for sure is preorder is between 3.10 and 31.10

Historically i don't think gw has ever releasea 2 codex same week. Aos battletome yes, 40k codex no. And aos ones been largely one basically book only unlike marine and necron


Weren't chaos marines and grey knights the same week?


I think you;'re right, GW's content to release two codices at a time if they're not releasing the codex alongside anything else


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/07 21:37:00


Post by: Platuan4th


BrianDavion wrote:
I bet the silver templars will use some of the options from the new codex for sucessor chapters


I bet that more likely they'll use the rules they already have from Conquest updated for 9th.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/08 03:09:06


Post by: tneva82


 Sasori wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Gw has just said october. which is 5 weeks so all we know for sure is preorder is between 3.10 and 31.10

Historically i don't think gw has ever releasea 2 codex same week. Aos battletome yes, 40k codex no. And aos ones been largely one basically book only unlike marine and necron



I wouldn't be shocked if we start seeing some 40k releases similar to how they Did the AoS battletomes to move everything up to 2nd edition.

Two dexes and some hero models (Maybe Terrain?) or something, to get the new codexes out the door. Mix in some larger codex releases for their own week or weeks and that would hopefully get everyone up to speed somewhat quickly.


That being said, we know this is a huge release. I am wondering if they are going to structure it any different than what we have seen in the past.





If gw wanted to do that rather than aim to get impulse purchases of both 8e would have been perfect. No existing codenes(greater need) and zero models to come with. They didn't.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/08 17:10:35


Post by: Sasori


tneva82 wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Gw has just said october. which is 5 weeks so all we know for sure is preorder is between 3.10 and 31.10

Historically i don't think gw has ever releasea 2 codex same week. Aos battletome yes, 40k codex no. And aos ones been largely one basically book only unlike marine and necron



I wouldn't be shocked if we start seeing some 40k releases similar to how they Did the AoS battletomes to move everything up to 2nd edition.

Two dexes and some hero models (Maybe Terrain?) or something, to get the new codexes out the door. Mix in some larger codex releases for their own week or weeks and that would hopefully get everyone up to speed somewhat quickly.


That being said, we know this is a huge release. I am wondering if they are going to structure it any different than what we have seen in the past.



If gw wanted to do that rather than aim to get impulse purchases of both 8e would have been perfect. No existing codenes(greater need) and zero models to come with. They didn't.


Just because they didn't do it in 8th edition doesn't mean they won't do it for 9th. They could have tested the waters with how AoS did with those kind of releases. I'm sure they have internal numbers to dictate how that affected sales.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/08 17:12:57


Post by: tneva82


But odds are bad and as they have said nothing that indicates they would do even more than in aos pointless speculating they would


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 14:48:59


Post by: Sasori


Here is some Necron Info from the White Dwarf Batrep:

So, from a quick skimread, in no particular order

Reanimation looks to be an extra save of some kind when a model dies - can't be taken if the unit is wiped out by a single set of 'attacks'.
Protocol of the Eternal Guardian gives light cover if you don't move +/ unknown.
Protocol of the Hungry Void give extra AP for melee attacks +/ unknown.
Plasmactye is NOT part of the Skorphek destroyer unit, moves as a seperate unit.
Command Protocols turn off when your last 'Noble' dies
No QS on the reanimator (I had hope)

Stratagem names + vague descriptions
Disintegration Capacitors - improves shooting, not clear what but feels like strength or AP
Relentless Onslaught - Improves shooting, feels like number of shots.

Equipment - No descriptions
Nanoscarab Casket
Quantum Orb - Cyrptek Arcana


As well as an image



Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 14:49:37


Post by: Dudeface


Edit: beaten to it.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 15:16:55


Post by: the_scotsman


So, now, to play a game, necron players are keeping track of:

1) Res Prots. This is the signature, army-wide, necron rule.
2) part 1 of your dynasty code
3) Part 2 of your dynasty code
4) Part 1 of your Protocol
5) Part 2 of your Protocol, assuming you went mono-dynasty
6) Your dynasy's super-protocol, assuming you picked the one that they're extra good at.

Yeah this seems like an approachable gameplay pattern, players for sure won't have any trouble keeping track of what stuff does if we systematically go thru and make sure every army has at least 5 army-wide effects applying on it at any given time.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 15:26:00


Post by: torblind


the_scotsman wrote:
So, now, to play a game, necron players are keeping track of:

1) Res Prots. This is the signature, army-wide, necron rule.
2) part 1 of your dynasty code
3) Part 2 of your dynasty code
4) Part 1 of your Protocol
5) Part 2 of your Protocol, assuming you went mono-dynasty
6) Your dynasy's super-protocol, assuming you picked the one that they're extra good at.

Yeah this seems like an approachable gameplay pattern, players for sure won't have any trouble keeping track of what stuff does if we systematically go thru and make sure every army has at least 5 army-wide effects applying on it at any given time.


Also the more complex you make the game, the easier it is to balance.. oh wait...


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 15:30:05


Post by: Sasori


the_scotsman wrote:
So, now, to play a game, necron players are keeping track of:

1) Res Prots. This is the signature, army-wide, necron rule.
2) part 1 of your dynasty code
3) Part 2 of your dynasty code
4) Part 1 of your Protocol
5) Part 2 of your Protocol, assuming you went mono-dynasty
6) Your dynasy's super-protocol, assuming you picked the one that they're extra good at.

Yeah this seems like an approachable gameplay pattern, players for sure won't have any trouble keeping track of what stuff does if we systematically go thru and make sure every army has at least 5 army-wide effects applying on it at any given time.



I mean, most Subfaction rules lately have had 2 parts to them, so this is pretty standard. There is also no kind of super protocol.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 15:42:41


Post by: the_scotsman


 Sasori wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
So, now, to play a game, necron players are keeping track of:

1) Res Prots. This is the signature, army-wide, necron rule.
2) part 1 of your dynasty code
3) Part 2 of your dynasty code
4) Part 1 of your Protocol
5) Part 2 of your Protocol, assuming you went mono-dynasty
6) Your dynasy's super-protocol, assuming you picked the one that they're extra good at.

Yeah this seems like an approachable gameplay pattern, players for sure won't have any trouble keeping track of what stuff does if we systematically go thru and make sure every army has at least 5 army-wide effects applying on it at any given time.



I mean, most Subfaction rules lately have had 2 parts to them, so this is pretty standard. There is also no kind of super protocol.


You're right, I was confusing earlier rules rumors that merely being mono-cron would get you 1 protocol and being mono-dynasty would get you two with the recent codex reveal that you get both RULES from one protocol if you choose it as a particular dynasty. My bad.

....I still think having 5 army-wide special rules to track and balance active at one time is a bad thing for overall game balance. I'm not a fan of sisters having to track the miracle dice mechanic, AND the order trait, AND potentially 2 sacred rites all throughout the game either. And I think it'll be a fething nightmare both for game balance and accessibility if their solution to doctrines being crazy is "hey, lets just give EVERYONE a five layer bean dip of special rules to track at all times, that'll be great!"

Like, how is this going to work when we get to Drukhari? You know, that faction that I play where I already have to remember

1) A progressive table of rules that I add 1 to every battle round
2) a two-parter wych cult trait
3) Which stat each of my units has that is improved by +1

And then we're going to add a "raid protocol" layered on top of all that?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 15:46:56


Post by: The Newman


As-worded that would mean that a unit of Warriors taking fire from a big Aggressor squad gets to roll Reanimation ~120 times. That actually makes it sound like a variation on FNP that doesn't lose effectiveness if a W1 model gets hit with a D2 weapon.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 15:47:19


Post by: Dudeface


the_scotsman wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
So, now, to play a game, necron players are keeping track of:

1) Res Prots. This is the signature, army-wide, necron rule.
2) part 1 of your dynasty code
3) Part 2 of your dynasty code
4) Part 1 of your Protocol
5) Part 2 of your Protocol, assuming you went mono-dynasty
6) Your dynasy's super-protocol, assuming you picked the one that they're extra good at.

Yeah this seems like an approachable gameplay pattern, players for sure won't have any trouble keeping track of what stuff does if we systematically go thru and make sure every army has at least 5 army-wide effects applying on it at any given time.



I mean, most Subfaction rules lately have had 2 parts to them, so this is pretty standard. There is also no kind of super protocol.


You're right, I was confusing earlier rules rumors that merely being mono-cron would get you 1 protocol and being mono-dynasty would get you two with the recent codex reveal that you get both RULES from one protocol if you choose it as a particular dynasty. My bad.

....I still think having 5 army-wide special rules to track and balance active at one time is a bad thing for overall game balance. I'm not a fan of sisters having to track the miracle dice mechanic, AND the order trait, AND potentially 2 sacred rites all throughout the game either. And I think it'll be a fething nightmare both for game balance and accessibility if their solution to doctrines being crazy is "hey, lets just give EVERYONE a five layer bean dip of special rules to track at all times, that'll be great!"

Like, how is this going to work when we get to Drukhari? You know, that faction that I play where I already have to remember

1) A progressive table of rules that I add 1 to every battle round
2) a two-parter wych cult trait
3) Which stat each of my units has that is improved by +1

And then we're going to add a "raid protocol" layered on top of all that?


"Marines are too good, my army needs a buff to compete with them" results in this sadly.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 15:49:44


Post by: Tiberius501


So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 15:52:01


Post by: The Newman


 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 15:54:01


Post by: Cryptek of Awesome


 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?


Sounds like you only get to make RP if at least 1 Necron survived all the attacks made by one unit.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 15:55:01


Post by: Dudeface


Its too vague/incomplete to say for certain, but yes you could in theory be shot at 100 times and roll each time even if no damage was done based on that wording.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 15:55:12


Post by: Tiberius501


The Newman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.

How would this affect the dice rolls in practice? Do you think, instead of DR, you roll once every time a model dies, instead of for the mount of dmg? So a 2dmg thing kills a 1 wound dude, he gets to roll 1 dice to see if he gets back up? 2 dmg kills a 2 dmg dude, still rolls 1 dice to see if he gets back up?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 15:59:36


Post by: The Newman


 Tiberius501 wrote:
The Newman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.

How would this affect the dice rolls in practice? Do you think, instead of DR, you roll once every time a model dies, instead of for the mount of dmg? So a 2dmg thing kills a 1 wound dude, he gets to roll 1 dice to see if he gets back up? 2 dmg kills a 2 dmg dude, still rolls 1 dice to see if he gets back up?


That's how I'm reading it, yeah. If that interpretation is correct a 30-man blob of Necron Warriors will be one of the few things able to reliably tank a full round of Aggressor fire with all the rerolls.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 16:04:32


Post by: Cryptek of Awesome


The Newman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
The Newman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.

How would this affect the dice rolls in practice? Do you think, instead of DR, you roll once every time a model dies, instead of for the mount of dmg? So a 2dmg thing kills a 1 wound dude, he gets to roll 1 dice to see if he gets back up? 2 dmg kills a 2 dmg dude, still rolls 1 dice to see if he gets back up?


That's how I'm reading it, yeah. If that interpretation is correct a 30-man blob of Necron Warriors will be one of the few things able to reliably tank a full round of Aggressor fire with all the rerolls.


The sideline summary box makes it sound like you get to roll after each single model rolls to attack.
The summary of the person who read the article sounds like you get to roll if any Necrons survived the whole unit's volley of shots.

I very much suspect it is the 2nd way. GW wouldn't slow the game down that much. Right...*looks around nervously* Right?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 16:07:15


Post by: Sasori


I think it' s much more likely after a unit has finished it's attacks, no per attack. Otherwise the game would take 5 hours+


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 16:07:58


Post by: Ghaz


Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
Spoiler:
The Newman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
The Newman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.

How would this affect the dice rolls in practice? Do you think, instead of DR, you roll once every time a model dies, instead of for the mount of dmg? So a 2dmg thing kills a 1 wound dude, he gets to roll 1 dice to see if he gets back up? 2 dmg kills a 2 dmg dude, still rolls 1 dice to see if he gets back up?


That's how I'm reading it, yeah. If that interpretation is correct a 30-man blob of Necron Warriors will be one of the few things able to reliably tank a full round of Aggressor fire with all the rerolls.


The sideline summary box makes it sound like you get to roll after each single model rolls to attack.
The summary of the person who read the article sounds like you get to roll if any Necrons survived the whole unit's volley of shots.

I very much suspect it is the 2nd way. GW wouldn't slow the game down that much. Right...*looks around nervously* Right?

'Enemy' in that article would be referring to the opposing player, not each of his models.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 16:14:50


Post by: lord_blackfang


torblind wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
So, now, to play a game, necron players are keeping track of:

1) Res Prots. This is the signature, army-wide, necron rule.
2) part 1 of your dynasty code
3) Part 2 of your dynasty code
4) Part 1 of your Protocol
5) Part 2 of your Protocol, assuming you went mono-dynasty
6) Your dynasy's super-protocol, assuming you picked the one that they're extra good at.

Yeah this seems like an approachable gameplay pattern, players for sure won't have any trouble keeping track of what stuff does if we systematically go thru and make sure every army has at least 5 army-wide effects applying on it at any given time.


Also the more complex you make the game, the easier it is to balance.. oh wait...


The word you're looking for is convoluted, not complex.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 16:51:48


Post by: torblind


Yeah cause people in these forums love having their nits picked


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 16:58:01


Post by: nintura


Detonating and reanimating scarabs

[Thumb - 119582036_349201833126799_8912354798066254843_o.jpg]


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 17:03:11


Post by: Mixzremixzd


The detonating is most likely the Strat that scarabs have in the 8th Ed codex that deals D3 MW on a 2+. Glad to see it stick around if it is indeed the same strat.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 17:23:41


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


Sounds like Reanimation rolls are after either a unit has completed all it's attacks

or

after a unit has completed all the attacks of one type of weapon

I guess we'll need to wait and see (and maybe wait for a FAQ after that


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 17:25:11


Post by: Mr_Rose


 Mixzremixzd wrote:
The detonating is most likely the Strat that scarabs have in the 8th Ed codex that deals D3 MW on a 2+. Glad to see it stick around if it is indeed the same strat.

I for one hope it’s a unit special rule now. I remember when scarabs were the ultimate anti-tank and I want those glory days back…


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 17:28:17


Post by: Ghaz


 Mr_Rose wrote:
 Mixzremixzd wrote:
The detonating is most likely the Strat that scarabs have in the 8th Ed codex that deals D3 MW on a 2+. Glad to see it stick around if it is indeed the same strat.

I for one hope it’s a unit special rule now. I remember when scarabs were the ultimate anti-tank and I want those glory days back…

You can make out in the bottom left corner of the image that it is a stratagem.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 18:34:38


Post by: tneva82


The Newman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.


As written in battle report which are usually colloquial quick writing rather than actual rules


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Newman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
The Newman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.

How would this affect the dice rolls in practice? Do you think, instead of DR, you roll once every time a model dies, instead of for the mount of dmg? So a 2dmg thing kills a 1 wound dude, he gets to roll 1 dice to see if he gets back up? 2 dmg kills a 2 dmg dude, still rolls 1 dice to see if he gets back up?


That's how I'm reading it, yeah. If that interpretation is correct a 30-man blob of Necron Warriors will be one of the few things able to reliably tank a full round of Aggressor fire with all the rerolls.


You would need 45 shots past armour save to kill 30 blop.

Though is 30 big unit change confirmed somewhere? 20 is atm max which requires 30 failed armour saves


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 18:41:06


Post by: Voss


Scarabs get reanimation protocols?
Even when blowing themselves up?

Thats.... neat. And surprising.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sasori wrote:
I think it' s much more likely after a unit has finished it's attacks, no per attack. Otherwise the game would take 5 hours+


Also it doesn't make sense. The blurb implies that if the unit is wiped out, you can't get RP rolls. That's very, very hard to do on a shot-by-shot basis.
Its essentially meaningless until the unit is down to one model.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 18:56:28


Post by: Ghaz


Voss wrote:
Scarabs get reanimation protocols?
Even when blowing themselves up?

Thats.... neat. And surprising.

When the article says "Unsurprisingly the Scarabs didn't reanimate after such a cruel death" it was probably because the entire unit was destroyed and thus he knew they would not eligible to reanimate according to the White Dwarf leak.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 19:25:24


Post by: Voss


 Ghaz wrote:
Voss wrote:
Scarabs get reanimation protocols?
Even when blowing themselves up?

Thats.... neat. And surprising.

When the article says "Unsurprisingly the Scarabs didn't reanimate after such a cruel death" it was probably because the entire unit was destroyed and thus he knew they would not eligible to reanimate according to the White Dwarf leak.

Right, but previously scarabs didn't reanimation protocols at all. They just didn't have that rule. Ever, as far as I can remember.
So... its surprising.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 19:27:40


Post by: tneva82


Or it's just narrative text. Battle reports in wd aren't 100% gritty rule details.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 19:31:52


Post by: Sasori


Another thing from the WD pages, is that you lose access to protocols if you don't have at least one character on the battlefield with the Noble keyword.

So just add that into the pile of being able to use our special rule. Pretty obnoxious.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 19:39:32


Post by: BrianDavion


the_scotsman wrote:
So, now, to play a game, necron players are keeping track of:

1) Res Prots. This is the signature, army-wide, necron rule.
2) part 1 of your dynasty code
3) Part 2 of your dynasty code
4) Part 1 of your Protocol
5) Part 2 of your Protocol, assuming you went mono-dynasty
6) Your dynasy's super-protocol, assuming you picked the one that they're extra good at.

Yeah this seems like an approachable gameplay pattern, players for sure won't have any trouble keeping track of what stuff does if we systematically go thru and make sure every army has at least 5 army-wide effects applying on it at any given time.


Marines manage to keep track of their stuff just fine


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 19:41:42


Post by: Sentineil


That's because Marine players, like Marines, are OP


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 20:16:20


Post by: unitled


 Sasori wrote:
Another thing from the WD pages, is that you lose access to protocols if you don't have at least one character on the battlefield with the Noble keyword


At the moment it looks like literally only the Edge of Silence Overlord has the Noble keyword, neither the Skorpekh Lord nor the Plasmancer in the set have it. Not to say that won't change ofc!


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 20:46:18


Post by: insaniak


BrianDavion wrote:

Marines manage to keep track of their stuff just fine

Do they, though?

From my experience over the years, most players (myself included) struggle just to keep track of which turn it is, let alone remembering multiple, ongoing effects. Remember Night Fighting? Ever remember Night Fighting during a game...?






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Voss wrote:
Scarabs get reanimation protocols?
Even when blowing themselves up?

Thats.... neat. And surprising..

I kind of want to adopt that for my revised 2nd edition rules... Scarabs exploding and then immediately knitting themselves back together to do it again is a hilarious concept.

Although, I suspect, possibly somewhat less hilarious for an opponent.



Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 20:56:58


Post by: Gadzilla666


 insaniak wrote:
Remember Night Fighting? Ever remember Night Fighting during a game...?

I always did. AVE DOMINUS NOX !


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 21:38:57


Post by: Mr_Rose


Look, the protocols thing is easy; write each protocol on a separate note card (or buy the inevitable tactics deck) and lay them out in your chosen order face-down. When the round increments, flip the next one face up then flip any others face down.
That way you can keep track of the protocols and the round number in one mechanism.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 21:55:26


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Mr_Rose wrote:
Look, the protocols thing is easy; write each protocol on a separate note card (or buy the inevitable tactics deck) and lay them out in your chosen order face-down. When the round increments, flip the next one face up then flip any others face down.
Or just buy the inevitable (and no doubt expensive) Necron card set that'll have 'em right there.

Because buying cards for a game that cycles through its rules this quickly is always a great idea.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 22:11:15


Post by: nintura


Still makes no sense. What general would randomize their strategy.... why would you not adapt to the situation at hand? You dont leave your men fighting a tank with a 249 SAW just because that's what they had, you bring in the TOW


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 22:12:25


Post by: Kanluwen


 Sasori wrote:
Another thing from the WD pages, is that you lose access to protocols if you don't have at least one character on the battlefield with the Noble keyword.

So just add that into the pile of being able to use our special rule. Pretty obnoxious.

I've said this for years now about Officers for the Guard. At least Protocols actually do something for the whole of the army rather than just one group of people getting shouted at.

Really starting to get suspicious though as the Protocols are not too dissimilar from an idea I pitched on Dakka about the different 'levels' of Orders that should work from Officers.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 22:22:21


Post by: Tastyfish


 nintura wrote:
Still makes no sense. What general would randomize their strategy.... why would you not adapt to the situation at hand? You dont leave your men fighting a tank with a 249 SAW just because that's what they had, you bring in the TOW


Because your're a paranoid narcissist that knows that without keeping tight control over your minions they will inevitably rebel and overthrow you, just like you did to your own overlord.
It's not randomised, you've come up with a plan that is clearly genius and require your minions to execute it to the letter whilst you hover your metaphysical hand over the control protocols. When the time comes your brilliance will shine, unless your underlings reveal their treachery or incompetence.



Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 22:34:28


Post by: alextroy


tneva82 wrote:
The Newman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.


As written in battle report which are usually colloquial quick writing rather than actual rules
I'm thinking after each enemy attack is a conversational way of saying at the end of each phase. Alternatively, it is almost certainly after each enemy unit completes its attacks. Either one of those will be a massive boon to Necron armies.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 22:38:11


Post by: JoeRugby


The new cron rules are Kind of a return to the old rogue trader robot programs...


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 22:39:11


Post by: Rinkydink


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Or just buy the inevitable (and no doubt expensive) Necron card set that'll have 'em right there.


You forgot to add limited print run(!) to that list H.B.M.C...


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 22:44:12


Post by: Tastyfish


 Rinkydink wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Or just buy the inevitable (and no doubt expensive) Necron card set that'll have 'em right there.


You forgot to add limited print run(!) to that list H.B.M.C...


What choice did we have once pens were discontinued and moved to Legends?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 23:01:50


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 nintura wrote:
You dont leave your men fighting a tank with a 249 SAW just because that's what they had, you bring in the TOW
Ah, but in 40k the SAW can hurt the tank because "ItS aN aBsTrAcTiOn!1".


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 23:05:41


Post by: Sasori


 Kanluwen wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
Another thing from the WD pages, is that you lose access to protocols if you don't have at least one character on the battlefield with the Noble keyword.

So just add that into the pile of being able to use our special rule. Pretty obnoxious.

I've said this for years now about Officers for the Guard. At least Protocols actually do something for the whole of the army rather than just one group of people getting shouted at.

Really starting to get suspicious though as the Protocols are not too dissimilar from an idea I pitched on Dakka about the different 'levels' of Orders that should work from Officers.


You don't get them for the whole army though, they have to be within 6' of a character. That's a pretty major limitation.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 23:07:32


Post by: Kanluwen


 Sasori wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
Another thing from the WD pages, is that you lose access to protocols if you don't have at least one character on the battlefield with the Noble keyword.

So just add that into the pile of being able to use our special rule. Pretty obnoxious.

I've said this for years now about Officers for the Guard. At least Protocols actually do something for the whole of the army rather than just one group of people getting shouted at.

Really starting to get suspicious though as the Protocols are not too dissimilar from an idea I pitched on Dakka about the different 'levels' of Orders that should work from Officers.


You don't get them for the whole army though, they have to be within 6' of a character. That's a pretty major limitation.

Read what it says though.

Once you activate them, it's within 6' of any of your characters.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 23:10:35


Post by: Sasori


 Kanluwen wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
Another thing from the WD pages, is that you lose access to protocols if you don't have at least one character on the battlefield with the Noble keyword.

So just add that into the pile of being able to use our special rule. Pretty obnoxious.

I've said this for years now about Officers for the Guard. At least Protocols actually do something for the whole of the army rather than just one group of people getting shouted at.

Really starting to get suspicious though as the Protocols are not too dissimilar from an idea I pitched on Dakka about the different 'levels' of Orders that should work from Officers.


You don't get them for the whole army though, they have to be within 6' of a character. That's a pretty major limitation.

Read what it says though.

Once you activate them, it's within 6' of any of your characters.


Yes, I know what it says, and that's exactly what I put in my post.

We don't exactly have a lot of characters or the points for a lot of characters and all of our characters besides the Technomancer are very slow. This is a severe limitation, that's already got a ton of hoops you have to jump through to even use it.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 23:18:59


Post by: Kanluwen


I fail to see an issue when you have a fairly hefty stable of characters. Just build around that?

It's not like you're having to stick within 3" of an item only five specific units can purchase.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 23:24:55


Post by: Sasori


 Kanluwen wrote:
I fail to see an issue when you have a fairly hefty stable of characters. Just build around that?

It's not like you're having to stick within 3" of an item only five specific units can purchase.




You fail to see the Issue when:

1. You most have a Mono Faction Army
2. You must have Mono Dynasty Army
3. You must have a Character with Noble Keyword as your Warlord
4. You must pick the Protocols and order them before the game starts
5. You must be within 6 of a character to receive the bonus
6. You must have at least one model with the Noble Keyword on the battlefield, or lose access to protocols completely.

If you "Fail" to see why there is an issue here with how this is executed, then anyone here should just dismiss you opinion on this subject entirely.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 23:32:15


Post by: Kanluwen


I literally have to meet most of (no Protocol equivalent) those requirements to use Regiment bonuses or Orders to their full potential...so maybe that's why I'm not seeing an issue?

I'm already used to having to play a single Regiment with Officers and spacing for Vox-Casters to be usable by my Officers(they require being within 3" of either an Infantry, Veteran, or Command Squad with a Vox) and keeping Officers alive to keep Orders going.

I view this as you getting to trigger something that turns your non-Noble characters into buffbots and I would kill for this for my Guard.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 23:41:36


Post by: Sasori


 Kanluwen wrote:
I literally have to meet most of (no Protocol equivalent) those requirements to use Regiment bonuses or Orders to their full potential...so maybe that's why I'm not seeing an issue?

I'm already used to having to play a single Regiment with Officers and spacing for Vox-Casters to be usable by my Officers(they require being within 3" of either an Infantry, Veteran, or Command Squad with a Vox) and keeping Officers alive to keep Orders going.

I view this as you getting to trigger something that turns your non-Noble characters into buffbots and I would kill for this for my Guard.


And how much do your officers cost compared to Necron Characters? How many are in other slots besides the HQ slot? It looks like you have ways of extending them to 18' with upgrades and I'm sure you have way more models with the Officer Keyword in a typical IG list than I do Overlords.

Do you really not understand how different the armies are, and how this puts much bigger constraints on Necrons?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/14 23:58:18


Post by: Tastyfish


Maximally buffed doesn't mean most efficient. 20% boost to a unit is worthless if it loses you the game.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

If the game is to have tactics then you have to be given choices rather than lists to maximise. Knowing when to leave the auras is a huge part of 40K tactics.

Monofaction and Dynasty are intended, so raising that as an issue is clearly you missing the point. You take other factions or subfactions for use over what your mono-choice gives you.

It's a choice. Does it bring something worthwhile compared to getting the most buffs per unit? Up to you to value.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 00:01:53


Post by: alextroy


 Sasori wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
I literally have to meet most of (no Protocol equivalent) those requirements to use Regiment bonuses or Orders to their full potential...so maybe that's why I'm not seeing an issue?

I'm already used to having to play a single Regiment with Officers and spacing for Vox-Casters to be usable by my Officers(they require being within 3" of either an Infantry, Veteran, or Command Squad with a Vox) and keeping Officers alive to keep Orders going.

I view this as you getting to trigger something that turns your non-Noble characters into buffbots and I would kill for this for my Guard.


And how much do your officers cost compared to Necron Characters? How many are in other slots besides the HQ slot? It looks like you have ways of extending them to 18' with upgrades and I'm sure you have way more models with the Officer Keyword in a typical IG list than I do Overlords.

Do you really not understand how different the armies are, and how this puts much bigger constraints on Necrons?
An Necron character are more effective, so point to Necrons?

As for slots, you must mean the Platoon Commander that nobody uses? I'm sure there will be more Nobles in the Necron list than just Overlords.

I find it rather amusing you are complaining about having to hug a character for an aura, as if every army isn't doing that.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 00:03:49


Post by: Sentineil


As a Necron player, I like the change. I like the idea of a royal court leading the legions, and I find an army that relies on synergy and protecting characters to be fun. It's also premature to say IG have more characters with the officer keyword, as we don't know who or what has the noble keyword yet do we? Necrons have always had a surplus of HQ choices, so I'm not all that concerned.

I also play IG, where officers have very little use outside of orders, so although they're a lot cheaper than an Overlord or Royal Warden, they're also a lot less practical. Their role is to use orders to rush my infantry into the meat grinder and then heroically throw themselves at something in a hail Mary to tie it up in combat.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 00:04:20


Post by: Kanluwen


 Sasori wrote:

And how much do your officers cost compared to Necron Characters?

How many Necron characters only offer their buff rather than having wargear that can actually make a meaningful contribution to the tide of the game?

Your characters are more expensive, but they're also not T3 with a 5+/5++ and just a pistol+frag grenades.
How many are in other slots besides the HQ slot?

One. And it's in Elite, which is a packed bucket for Guard.
And it only applies to running <Regiment>, not Tempestus.

You want to run Tempestus? You have one Officer in the form of the Tempestor Prime.
It looks like you have ways of extending them to 18' with upgrades

This is why I specifically mentioned voxes in my post. Because that's how you extend them...and just five units have voxes. Scion and Scion Command Squads, Infantry Squads, Veteran Squads, and Command Squads. Two of those(Scion+Scion Command Squads) can't benefit from <Regiment>. And remember that it's a one-way benefit. An Officer within 3" of a unit with a Vox can Order a unit 18" away...provided that unit has a vox-caster.

There's a stratagem for Chimeras to count as having Voxes for the Officer issuing Orders but that doesn't change the initial unit needing to have it.
and I'm sure you have way more models with the Officer Keyword in a typical IG list than I do Overlords.

Sure, but do you really think just the Overlord will have the Noble keyword?

Do you really not understand how different the armies are, and how this puts much bigger constraints on Necrons?

It means you don't play as aggressively with your Noble keyworded characters and as an exchange any and all of your characters get to produce an aura in addition to anything they had to start with.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 00:06:55


Post by: nintura


 alextroy wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
I literally have to meet most of (no Protocol equivalent) those requirements to use Regiment bonuses or Orders to their full potential...so maybe that's why I'm not seeing an issue?

I'm already used to having to play a single Regiment with Officers and spacing for Vox-Casters to be usable by my Officers(they require being within 3" of either an Infantry, Veteran, or Command Squad with a Vox) and keeping Officers alive to keep Orders going.

I view this as you getting to trigger something that turns your non-Noble characters into buffbots and I would kill for this for my Guard.


And how much do your officers cost compared to Necron Characters? How many are in other slots besides the HQ slot? It looks like you have ways of extending them to 18' with upgrades and I'm sure you have way more models with the Officer Keyword in a typical IG list than I do Overlords.

Do you really not understand how different the armies are, and how this puts much bigger constraints on Necrons?
An Necron character are more effective, so point to Necrons?

As for slots, you must mean the Platoon Commander that nobody uses? I'm sure there will be more Nobles in the Necron list than just Overlords.

I find it rather amusing you are complaining about having to hug a character for an aura, as if every army isn't doing that.


I love this argument. "You mean the X unit that nobody uses?" Just because you dont use it or have something better does not mean it's not good.... or that other armies would love to have something similar.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 00:10:56


Post by: Sasori


Tastyfish wrote: Maximally buffed doesn't mean most efficient. 20% boost to a unit is worthless if it loses you the game.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

If the game is to have tactics then you have to be given choices rather than lists to maximise. Knowing when to leave the auras is a huge part of 40K tactics.

Monofaction and Dynasty are intended, so raising that as an issue is clearly you missing the point. You take other factions or subfactions for use over what your mono-choice gives you.

It's a choice. Does it bring something worthwhile compared to getting the most buffs per unit? Up to you to value.


Right now both Space Marines and Sisters of Battle get their mono-faction bonus by simply having the appropriate keywords in the army. This amount limitations has only been imposed on Necrons so far.

alextroy wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
I literally have to meet most of (no Protocol equivalent) those requirements to use Regiment bonuses or Orders to their full potential...so maybe that's why I'm not seeing an issue?

I'm already used to having to play a single Regiment with Officers and spacing for Vox-Casters to be usable by my Officers(they require being within 3" of either an Infantry, Veteran, or Command Squad with a Vox) and keeping Officers alive to keep Orders going.

I view this as you getting to trigger something that turns your non-Noble characters into buffbots and I would kill for this for my Guard.


And how much do your officers cost compared to Necron Characters? How many are in other slots besides the HQ slot? It looks like you have ways of extending them to 18' with upgrades and I'm sure you have way more models with the Officer Keyword in a typical IG list than I do Overlords.

Do you really not understand how different the armies are, and how this puts much bigger constraints on Necrons?
An Necron character are more effective, so point to Necrons?

As for slots, you must mean the Platoon Commander that nobody uses? I'm sure there will be more Nobles in the Necron list than just Overlords.

I find it rather amusing you are complaining about having to hug a character for an aura, as if every army isn't doing that.


I'm not complaining just about the Aura, the Aura would be fine if it did not have all the other limitations stapled to it. Being able to snipe an Overlord (the only model with the Noble Keyword currently) and remove access to the entire rule is a silly limitation. Having to pick the order before the game starts is a silly limitation.

The Aura would not be an issue if for instance you got to pick them, and didn't have to worry that loosing one character looses access to the rules.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 00:41:55


Post by: alextroy


 Sasori wrote:
I'm not complaining just about the Aura, the Aura would be fine if it did not have all the other limitations stapled to it. Being able to snipe an Overlord (the only model with the Noble Keyword currently) and remove access to the entire rule is a silly limitation. Having to pick the order before the game starts is a silly limitation.

The Aura would not be an issue if for instance you got to pick them, and didn't have to worry that loosing one character looses access to the rules.
So you are complaining about an assumption about the rules. I hate to say it, but you should probably wait for the codex and see if your fear is real.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 00:43:45


Post by: Kanluwen


 Sasori wrote:

Right now both Space Marines and Sisters of Battle get their mono-faction bonus by simply having the appropriate keywords in the army. This amount limitations has only been imposed on Necrons so far.

"So far" being the operative statement there.


I'm not complaining just about the Aura, the Aura would be fine if it did not have all the other limitations stapled to it. Being able to snipe an Overlord (the only model with the Noble Keyword currently) and remove access to the entire rule is a silly limitation. Having to pick the order before the game starts is a silly limitation.

The Aura would not be an issue if for instance you got to pick them, and didn't have to worry that loosing one character looses access to the rules.

You do pick the Aura though?
Warhammer Community wrote:If your army of Necrons all hails from the same dynasty and is led by a Character with the Noble keyword, then at the start of the game, you can secretly assign one of six command protocols to utilise during each battle round. After revealing your selected command protocol, you’ll need to choose which directive you will activate. Any of your units within 6″ of your Characters will then benefit from that directive. With careful strategy and forethought, command protocols can really throw off your opponent while giving you a massive advantage.


And it's not 'losing one character loses access to the rules'. It's 'losing all of your characters with that keyword loses access to the rules'.

I get the downsides more than you seem to understand I do, but this setup is impressive given that you get a free aura stacked on top of other auras as long as you have a Noble keyworded unit on the field.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 00:47:21


Post by: Sasori


 alextroy wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
I'm not complaining just about the Aura, the Aura would be fine if it did not have all the other limitations stapled to it. Being able to snipe an Overlord (the only model with the Noble Keyword currently) and remove access to the entire rule is a silly limitation. Having to pick the order before the game starts is a silly limitation.

The Aura would not be an issue if for instance you got to pick them, and didn't have to worry that loosing one character looses access to the rules.
So you are complaining about an assumption about the rules. I hate to say it, but you should probably wait for the codex and see if your fear is real.


This is the information that was provided on the community site on how they function and that lined up with what was in the White Dwarf battle report.There is no reason right now to believe it's going to be substantially different in the codex from the information we have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Sasori wrote:

Right now both Space Marines and Sisters of Battle get their mono-faction bonus by simply having the appropriate keywords in the army. This amount limitations has only been imposed on Necrons so far.

"So far" being the operative statement there.


I'm not complaining just about the Aura, the Aura would be fine if it did not have all the other limitations stapled to it. Being able to snipe an Overlord (the only model with the Noble Keyword currently) and remove access to the entire rule is a silly limitation. Having to pick the order before the game starts is a silly limitation.

The Aura would not be an issue if for instance you got to pick them, and didn't have to worry that loosing one character looses access to the rules.

You do pick the Aura though?
Warhammer Community wrote:If your army of Necrons all hails from the same dynasty and is led by a Character with the Noble keyword, then at the start of the game, you can secretly assign one of six command protocols to utilise during each battle round. After revealing your selected command protocol, you’ll need to choose which directive you will activate. Any of your units within 6″ of your Characters will then benefit from that directive. With careful strategy and forethought, command protocols can really throw off your opponent while giving you a massive advantage.


And it's not 'losing one character loses access to the rules'. It's 'losing all of your characters with that keyword loses access to the rules'.

I get the downsides more than you seem to understand I do, but this setup is impressive given that you get a free aura stacked on top of other auras as long as you have a Noble keyworded unit on the field.


What I meant by pick, was pick on the turn instead of having to select the order at the start of the game.

Yes, it is true you have to kill all the characters with the Noble keyword to remove the bonus. It is not confirmed what will be getting that keyword, yet, so maybe I'm a bit overzealous about that one. That being said, it's unlikey that Crypteks will get it, which is the character that would make the most difference.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 01:15:07


Post by: casvalremdeikun


This makes me SOOOO happy. I am thinking 2x squads of 10 with a Auto Bolt Rifle with Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt Pistol, and Thunder Hammer on one dude. They appear to be able to mix Intercessor types (at least Tactical and Assault). They will be pretty brutal.

[Thumb - hhtmty40avm51.png]


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 01:25:53


Post by: nintura


To be fair, Noble will probably go on all HQs as they are all part of the group (whatever it's called where you have the overlord and his retinue) and are all considered Nobles


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 01:31:46


Post by: Argive


 Sasori wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
I'm not complaining just about the Aura, the Aura would be fine if it did not have all the other limitations stapled to it. Being able to snipe an Overlord (the only model with the Noble Keyword currently) and remove access to the entire rule is a silly limitation. Having to pick the order before the game starts is a silly limitation.

The Aura would not be an issue if for instance you got to pick them, and didn't have to worry that loosing one character looses access to the rules.
So you are complaining about an assumption about the rules. I hate to say it, but you should probably wait for the codex and see if your fear is real.


This is the information that was provided on the community site on how they function and that lined up with what was in the White Dwarf battle report.There is no reason right now to believe it's going to be substantially different in the codex from the information we have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Sasori wrote:

Right now both Space Marines and Sisters of Battle get their mono-faction bonus by simply having the appropriate keywords in the army. This amount limitations has only been imposed on Necrons so far.

"So far" being the operative statement there.


I'm not complaining just about the Aura, the Aura would be fine if it did not have all the other limitations stapled to it. Being able to snipe an Overlord (the only model with the Noble Keyword currently) and remove access to the entire rule is a silly limitation. Having to pick the order before the game starts is a silly limitation.

The Aura would not be an issue if for instance you got to pick them, and didn't have to worry that loosing one character looses access to the rules.

You do pick the Aura though?
Warhammer Community wrote:If your army of Necrons all hails from the same dynasty and is led by a Character with the Noble keyword, then at the start of the game, you can secretly assign one of six command protocols to utilise during each battle round. After revealing your selected command protocol, you’ll need to choose which directive you will activate. Any of your units within 6″ of your Characters will then benefit from that directive. With careful strategy and forethought, command protocols can really throw off your opponent while giving you a massive advantage.


And it's not 'losing one character loses access to the rules'. It's 'losing all of your characters with that keyword loses access to the rules'.

I get the downsides more than you seem to understand I do, but this setup is impressive given that you get a free aura stacked on top of other auras as long as you have a Noble keyworded unit on the field.


What I meant by pick, was pick on the turn instead of having to select the order at the start of the game.

Yes, it is true you have to kill all the characters with the Noble keyword to remove the bonus. It is not confirmed what will be getting that keyword, yet, so maybe I'm a bit overzealous about that one. That being said, it's unlikey that Crypteks will get it, which is the character that would make the most difference.


Not sure How I feel about that.
On one hand I hope this applies to other codexes as well. Would be cool and give sniper units and tactics a job.

on the other I remember my HQs have T3 and 4W at most..


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 02:44:05


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


 Sasori wrote:
Another thing from the WD pages, is that you lose access to protocols if you don't have at least one character on the battlefield with the Noble keyword.

So just add that into the pile of being able to use our special rule. Pretty obnoxious.

Makes sense, since the protocols are auras around Nobles.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 03:24:39


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 nintura wrote:
To be fair, Noble will probably go on all HQs as they are all part of the group (whatever it's called where you have the overlord and his retinue) and are all considered Nobles


Crypteks doubtful, but I can see Noble going onto Overlords, Lords, and the Catacomb Command Barge. Destroyer Lords maybe? They give themselves over to the destroyer cult, so it could go either way.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 04:06:36


Post by: Voss


Seems unlikely. Edge of Silence already shows the Noble tag for the Overlord, but not for the Royal Warden, Plasmancer or Skorpekh Lord (all of which are HQs).
So they can act as transmitters but can't generate the signal.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 04:19:30


Post by: Deikov


 Sasori wrote:


You fail to see the Issue when:

1. You most have a Mono Faction Army
2. You must have Mono Dynasty Army
3. You must have a Character with Noble Keyword as your Warlord
4. You must pick the Protocols and order them before the game starts
5. You must be within 6 of a character to receive the bonus
6. You must have at least one model with the Noble Keyword on the battlefield, or lose access to protocols completely.

If you "Fail" to see why there is an issue here with how this is executed, then anyone here should just dismiss you opinion on this subject entirely.


Ok, so, this is amusing to me, and I felt the silly need to address this specific list of requirements.

1: Mono Faction is absolutely not necessary to list. Who even uses other factions with their Necrons?
2: Mono Dynasty is also very very easy to do, especially now that it costs extra to bring multiple detachments.
3: While we don't know exactly which characters will also be "Noble" keywords, it seems safe to assume that Lords of all flavors, Overlords, and basically any Character that isn't a Cryptek will be a Noble. That sets this as a very low bar.
4: This is the first requirement you've listed that could be "difficult", but honestly that challenge is what's going to make it fun and interesting for a lot of players (like me). It shouldn't take long for Necron players to get the feel for how these will work out.
5: Within 6" of a character to receive the bonus is... honestly, not terrible. Last couple editions, we had to be within 3" of a single character to get a single buff. This doubles that, while also greatly increasing the character options we use for this ability. Not actually all that bad, even if not ideal.
6: See point 3, and then consider how easy it is likely to be to have a Noble on the battlefield.

These requirements already fall in line with how I usually built lists and played games, which I have had no small amount of success with.

Lastly, stating that we should dismiss that persons opinion entirely is uncalled for. You disagree with them, sure, but that doesn't mean that no one else will agree with them. Learn to adapt. Necrons are crotchety old space robo-corpses, yet they can adapt. Be like them.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 04:29:56


Post by: Voss


3: While we don't know exactly which characters will also be "Noble" keywords, it seems safe to assume that Lords of all flavors, Overlords, and basically any Character that isn't a Cryptek will be a Noble. That sets this as a very low bar.

Its very obviously not safe to assume that, as we have two non-cryptek characters in a current publication who don't have that keyword alongside one that does.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 05:40:35


Post by: Dudeface


Voss wrote:
3: While we don't know exactly which characters will also be "Noble" keywords, it seems safe to assume that Lords of all flavors, Overlords, and basically any Character that isn't a Cryptek will be a Noble. That sets this as a very low bar.

Its very obviously not safe to assume that, as we have two non-cryptek characters in a current publication who don't have that keyword alongside one that does.


We also have the plasmacyte as a unit member when its been reported they're a character in the dex. Things change between publications.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 06:41:37


Post by: Necronmaniac05


My main concern is necrons are going to be very vulnerable to sniper spam. I actually had to deal with that a lot in 8th when playing necrons and now necron characters have an even bigger target on their back. At T5 with a 3+/4++ and maybe 5 wounds at best they're not the most durable.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 07:29:22


Post by: unitled


Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My main concern is necrons are going to be very vulnerable to sniper spam. I actually had to deal with that a lot in 8th when playing necrons and now necron characters have an even bigger target on their back. At T5 with a 3+/4++ and maybe 5 wounds at best they're not the most durable.


Maybe this is the thinking behind the Cryptothralls, give the Cryptek a little extra defence?

Also looks like Lychguard, especially with the 5+++, could be some good character protection now too depending on how the RP rules shake out...


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 07:31:05


Post by: Dudeface


Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My main concern is necrons are going to be very vulnerable to sniper spam. I actually had to deal with that a lot in 8th when playing necrons and now necron characters have an even bigger target on their back. At T5 with a 3+/4++ and maybe 5 wounds at best they're not the most durable.


What do you count as durable? Guard stat lines must be a shock for you.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 07:56:58


Post by: BrianDavion


Dudeface wrote:
Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My main concern is necrons are going to be very vulnerable to sniper spam. I actually had to deal with that a lot in 8th when playing necrons and now necron characters have an even bigger target on their back. At T5 with a 3+/4++ and maybe 5 wounds at best they're not the most durable.


What do you count as durable? Guard stat lines must be a shock for you.


yeaah 3+/4++ 5 wounds and RP makes for a HQ tougher then a marine captain.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 09:17:01


Post by: Gadzilla666


Or a Chaos Lord. Or a Cannoness, or an Autarch, or a Warboss.....

I'm, not seeing the problem.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 09:28:12


Post by: Not Online!!!


BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My main concern is necrons are going to be very vulnerable to sniper spam. I actually had to deal with that a lot in 8th when playing necrons and now necron characters have an even bigger target on their back. At T5 with a 3+/4++ and maybe 5 wounds at best they're not the most durable.


What do you count as durable? Guard stat lines must be a shock for you.


yeaah 3+/4++ 5 wounds and RP makes for a HQ tougher then a marine captain.


Depends on the tag of the price associated. (in pts and opportunity cost, in this case HQ slots)
25 pts with SV 4 and 5++ is alot more durable then say 200 pts Sv 3+ 5++ 5+++.
of course this is an issue in regards to W and price associated with the further defensive profile and has further implications torwards units that are cheaper and therefore get easier to hit with Ro3 which then makes them overall ess tough again.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 11:11:06


Post by: BrianDavion


Not Online!!! wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My main concern is necrons are going to be very vulnerable to sniper spam. I actually had to deal with that a lot in 8th when playing necrons and now necron characters have an even bigger target on their back. At T5 with a 3+/4++ and maybe 5 wounds at best they're not the most durable.


What do you count as durable? Guard stat lines must be a shock for you.


yeaah 3+/4++ 5 wounds and RP makes for a HQ tougher then a marine captain.


Depends on the tag of the price associated. (in pts and opportunity cost, in this case HQ slots)
25 pts with SV 4 and 5++ is alot more durable then say 200 pts Sv 3+ 5++ 5+++.
of course this is an issue in regards to W and price associated with the further defensive profile and has further implications torwards units that are cheaper and therefore get easier to hit with Ro3 which then makes them overall ess tough again.

'
true the MFM lists the Overlord from Indomatus as 90 points, and a naked marine captain is 80. that could change but my gut feeling is it'll be more or less right. shifting maybe 5-10 points tops.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 15:32:46


Post by: Deikov


Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My main concern is necrons are going to be very vulnerable to sniper spam. I actually had to deal with that a lot in 8th when playing necrons and now necron characters have an even bigger target on their back. At T5 with a 3+/4++ and maybe 5 wounds at best they're not the most durable.


While it's certainly not ideal, and costs points that we might want to put somewhere else, Lychguard have proven themselves time and time again as quality character protectors.
Best case scenario, you lose a few Lychguard as someone tries to snipe out a character, worst case scenario you lose that entire unit of Lychguard. And if they're sword & board, that can take a lot of work for your opponent.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 15:35:58


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Just as something from the preview, it appears that the higher level of HQs (Chief Libby, Master of the Forge, etc.) are going to be something you have to pay points rather than CP for.

Do we think that this will be a concept that is used elsewhere, allowing for such things as Veteran Intercessors, Weirdboy Warpheads or even, dare I saw it, Trueborn DE Warriors, to re-enter the game via points rather than via CP expenditure?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 15:37:32


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Not sure what I think, but I effing hope so!


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 15:50:02


Post by: Sasori


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Just as something from the preview, it appears that the higher level of HQs (Chief Libby, Master of the Forge, etc.) are going to be something you have to pay points rather than CP for.

Do we think that this will be a concept that is used elsewhere, allowing for such things as Veteran Intercessors, Weirdboy Warpheads or even, dare I saw it, Trueborn DE Warriors, to re-enter the game via points rather than via CP expenditure?


This is a step in the right direction, and I hope we continue to see it used.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 15:55:04


Post by: Dysartes


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Do we think that this will be a concept that is used elsewhere, allowing for such things as Veteran Intercessors, Weirdboy Warpheads or even, dare I saw it, Trueborn DE Warriors, to re-enter the game via points rather than via CP expenditure?


Wasn't there something about Veteran Intercessors getting their own datasheet in the new Marine 'dex?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 16:02:02


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Might’ve been the Heavy Intercessors?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 16:29:19


Post by: Gadzilla666


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Might’ve been the Heavy Intercessors?

No, there is a Veteran Intercessors data sheet in the table of contents for the codex. It was spotted in the flip through of the codex in the first preview.

I really hope they do allow more customization to be done by spending points. Maybe csm can have our Veteran Abilities back.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 16:32:30


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Oh cool!

And yes. Veterans of the Long War deserve to be more than slightly more fighty against Marines.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 16:38:24


Post by: Sotahullu


Kinda hope that Veteran Intercessors are more then slight stat boost and includes the assault varierity.



Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 17:23:19


Post by: Tyel


Tbh the Protocols look like a blend of Ad Mech super-warlord traits and Daemon locuses. I think they'll be nice to have, but I wouldn't go nuts over it. Unfortunately I think a lot of people have been thinking they'll be the big draw, because the basic dynastic codes continue to look like of blah, but them's the breaks.

Really its all about the points.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 17:26:56


Post by: GoatboyBeta


A separate data sheet for vets IMO suggests something more than a regular Intercessor squad with a stat boost. Maybe a mixed squad like the DW kill teams?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/15 18:08:15


Post by: Dudeface


Tyel wrote:
Tbh the Protocols look like a blend of Ad Mech super-warlord traits and Daemon locuses. I think they'll be nice to have, but I wouldn't go nuts over it. Unfortunately I think a lot of people have been thinking they'll be the big draw, because the basic dynastic codes continue to look like of blah, but them's the breaks.

Really its all about the points.


We don't know what the custom codes contain either, they might be better than the premades.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 11:56:56


Post by: Dudeface


Right, I've looked through the WD battle report for marine hints and got the following:

Rites of War warlord trait: all <core> units get obsec within 6" of warlord.
Know no fear agenda: pass a morale test, get exp
"When the marines got into my lines and moved to assault doctrine they were brutal" - doctrines still present in some capacity


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 12:06:51


Post by: BrianDavion


Dudeface wrote:
Right, I've looked through the WD battle report for marine hints and got the following:

Rites of War warlord trait: all <core> units get obsec within 6" of warlord.
Know no fear agenda: pass a morale test, get exp
"When the marines got into my lines and moved to assault doctrine they were brutal" - doctrines still present in some capacity


given the article says "move to assault doctrine" my theory that they could go back to the old "single use stratigium" approuch for doctrines is likely untrue.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 12:25:33


Post by: tneva82


 alextroy wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
The Newman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.


As written in battle report which are usually colloquial quick writing rather than actual rules
I'm thinking after each enemy attack is a conversational way of saying at the end of each phase. Alternatively, it is almost certainly after each enemy unit completes its attacks. Either one of those will be a massive boon to Necron armies.


Or it's for every model that died. And if you fail the roll that's it. Aka FNP except for dead model rather than lost wound. Not so that you lose 15, roll some, then lose another, roll for all still dead including previously. Or if it IS like that then it has to be that if you wipe out whole unit in attack you don't roll period. What it cannot be(if GW has any sense) is that you can roll for unit that died AND you keep rolling for all models missing forever as that would result in ridiculousness of virtually impossible to kill unit for good(who fails 20 RP rolls?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 alextroy wrote:
An Necron character are more effective, so point to Necrons?

As for slots, you must mean the Platoon Commander that nobody uses? I'm sure there will be more Nobles in the Necron list than just Overlords.

I find it rather amusing you are complaining about having to hug a character for an aura, as if every army isn't doing that.


Necron HQ's have been so far tax you take because you have to. Not because you want to...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My main concern is necrons are going to be very vulnerable to sniper spam. I actually had to deal with that a lot in 8th when playing necrons and now necron characters have an even bigger target on their back. At T5 with a 3+/4++ and maybe 5 wounds at best they're not the most durable.


What do you count as durable? Guard stat lines must be a shock for you.


yeaah 3+/4++ 5 wounds and RP makes for a HQ tougher then a marine captain.


Characters don't have RP. They have living metal. Which helps if you survive initially.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 12:43:01


Post by: Dreamchild


tneva82 wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
The Newman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.


As written in battle report which are usually colloquial quick writing rather than actual rules
I'm thinking after each enemy attack is a conversational way of saying at the end of each phase. Alternatively, it is almost certainly after each enemy unit completes its attacks. Either one of those will be a massive boon to Necron armies.


Or it's for every model that died. And if you fail the roll that's it. Aka FNP except for dead model rather than lost wound. Not so that you lose 15, roll some, then lose another, roll for all still dead including previously. Or if it IS like that then it has to be that if you wipe out whole unit in attack you don't roll period. What it cannot be(if GW has any sense) is that you can roll for unit that died AND you keep rolling for all models missing forever as that would result in ridiculousness of virtually impossible to kill unit for good(who fails 20 RP rolls?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 alextroy wrote:
An Necron character are more effective, so point to Necrons?

As for slots, you must mean the Platoon Commander that nobody uses? I'm sure there will be more Nobles in the Necron list than just Overlords.

I find it rather amusing you are complaining about having to hug a character for an aura, as if every army isn't doing that.


Necron HQ's have been so far tax you take because you have to. Not because you want to...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My main concern is necrons are going to be very vulnerable to sniper spam. I actually had to deal with that a lot in 8th when playing necrons and now necron characters have an even bigger target on their back. At T5 with a 3+/4++ and maybe 5 wounds at best they're not the most durable.


What do you count as durable? Guard stat lines must be a shock for you.


yeaah 3+/4++ 5 wounds and RP makes for a HQ tougher then a marine captain.


Characters don't have RP. They have living metal. Which helps if you survive initially.


Also, crypteks and royal wardens don't come with an invuln of any kind, so there goes the durability theory.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 13:15:22


Post by: Dudeface


 Dreamchild wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
The Newman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.


As written in battle report which are usually colloquial quick writing rather than actual rules
I'm thinking after each enemy attack is a conversational way of saying at the end of each phase. Alternatively, it is almost certainly after each enemy unit completes its attacks. Either one of those will be a massive boon to Necron armies.


Or it's for every model that died. And if you fail the roll that's it. Aka FNP except for dead model rather than lost wound. Not so that you lose 15, roll some, then lose another, roll for all still dead including previously. Or if it IS like that then it has to be that if you wipe out whole unit in attack you don't roll period. What it cannot be(if GW has any sense) is that you can roll for unit that died AND you keep rolling for all models missing forever as that would result in ridiculousness of virtually impossible to kill unit for good(who fails 20 RP rolls?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 alextroy wrote:
An Necron character are more effective, so point to Necrons?

As for slots, you must mean the Platoon Commander that nobody uses? I'm sure there will be more Nobles in the Necron list than just Overlords.

I find it rather amusing you are complaining about having to hug a character for an aura, as if every army isn't doing that.


Necron HQ's have been so far tax you take because you have to. Not because you want to...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My main concern is necrons are going to be very vulnerable to sniper spam. I actually had to deal with that a lot in 8th when playing necrons and now necron characters have an even bigger target on their back. At T5 with a 3+/4++ and maybe 5 wounds at best they're not the most durable.


What do you count as durable? Guard stat lines must be a shock for you.


yeaah 3+/4++ 5 wounds and RP makes for a HQ tougher then a marine captain.


Characters don't have RP. They have living metal. Which helps if you survive initially.


Also, crypteks and royal wardens don't come with an invuln of any kind, so there goes the durability theory.


Currently.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 13:42:05


Post by: Sasori


 Dreamchild wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
The Newman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, is it just DR now? Or do you get to roll for the whole unit after an enemy unit has fully attacked them?

As written it's after every attack, so the 'crons get to Reanimate after every individual shot.


As written in battle report which are usually colloquial quick writing rather than actual rules
I'm thinking after each enemy attack is a conversational way of saying at the end of each phase. Alternatively, it is almost certainly after each enemy unit completes its attacks. Either one of those will be a massive boon to Necron armies.


Or it's for every model that died. And if you fail the roll that's it. Aka FNP except for dead model rather than lost wound. Not so that you lose 15, roll some, then lose another, roll for all still dead including previously. Or if it IS like that then it has to be that if you wipe out whole unit in attack you don't roll period. What it cannot be(if GW has any sense) is that you can roll for unit that died AND you keep rolling for all models missing forever as that would result in ridiculousness of virtually impossible to kill unit for good(who fails 20 RP rolls?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 alextroy wrote:
An Necron character are more effective, so point to Necrons?

As for slots, you must mean the Platoon Commander that nobody uses? I'm sure there will be more Nobles in the Necron list than just Overlords.

I find it rather amusing you are complaining about having to hug a character for an aura, as if every army isn't doing that.


Necron HQ's have been so far tax you take because you have to. Not because you want to...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My main concern is necrons are going to be very vulnerable to sniper spam. I actually had to deal with that a lot in 8th when playing necrons and now necron characters have an even bigger target on their back. At T5 with a 3+/4++ and maybe 5 wounds at best they're not the most durable.


What do you count as durable? Guard stat lines must be a shock for you.


yeaah 3+/4++ 5 wounds and RP makes for a HQ tougher then a marine captain.


Characters don't have RP. They have living metal. Which helps if you survive initially.


Also, crypteks and royal wardens don't come with an invuln of any kind, so there goes the durability theory.


Crypteks are also T4, W4 with a 4+ save... They are paper thin.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 13:42:54


Post by: Necronmaniac05


I guess Crypteks at least can take Cryptothralls to soak up fire for them for a turn or two, though you are paying, currently at least, 40 points for those extra 4 wounds. Plus they screen against sniper fire as well.

Shame Overlords don't have any option to screen themselves from sniper fire better but i guess we will see.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 14:12:11


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


There really aren't any dangerous snipers though.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 14:59:23


Post by: BrotherGecko


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There really aren't any dangerous snipers though.


That is something I noticed. I was worried about Canoness getting sniped but it would take a dedicated sniper squad most of a game to bring down a single Canoness. Death Guard characters are similar to Necron characters in durability and a dedicated character killing sniper team failed to even wound one of my DG characters.

I think snipers are better at tipping the odds against enemy characters in future close combats or finishing off wounded characters than they are at just out right killing them.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 16:02:56


Post by: Dudeface


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/16/core-units-and-characters/

Well, that explains core and helps neuter marines a lot.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 16:09:12


Post by: Voss


Dudeface wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/16/core-units-and-characters/

Well, that explains core and helps neuter marines a lot.


Seems reasonable, too.

They didn't say it (or even hint at it) but I hope doctrines get hit by the same rule.

---
On the Necron side, though, I expect this is going to hit the (just expanded) My Will Be Done & Relentless March


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 16:12:54


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


Dudeface wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/16/core-units-and-characters/

Well, that explains core and helps neuter marines a lot.


That's... almost reasonable? Are we sure GW is behind it?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 16:20:30


Post by: Dudeface


Voss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/16/core-units-and-characters/

Well, that explains core and helps neuter marines a lot.


Seems reasonable, too.

They didn't say it (or even hint at it) but I hope doctrines get hit by the same rule.

---
On the Necron side, though, I expect this is going to hit the (just expanded) My Will Be Done & Relentless March


That's a really good point, if doctrines are core only it'll take the sting out a lot.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 16:28:02


Post by: The Newman


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There really aren't any dangerous snipers though.

SM Eliminators and the AdMech Transuranic Arquebus say hello.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 16:33:40


Post by: Gadzilla666


Dudeface wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/16/core-units-and-characters/

Well, that explains core and helps neuter marines a lot.

Less rerolls? I like it. I like it a LOT. And it will probably apply to things like psyckers, chaplains, dark apostles. Yeah, good change. Anything that helps kill WOMBO COMBO "tactics" is a good thing.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 16:35:40


Post by: Nah Man Pichu


Dudeface wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/16/core-units-and-characters/

Well, that explains core and helps neuter marines a lot.


Obviously we need to see how this plays out, especially with regards to which units do and don't get the "Core" keyword...

That being said I definitely see this as a net positive. On paper it seems like a happy middle ground between the "remove all auras" crowd and the "stack rerolls on rerolls on rerolls" crowd.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 16:44:56


Post by: Doohicky


Will be interesting to see what auras need core and what don't....

From a deathguard perspective I expect re-roll 1s from daemon prince to only affect core.

But will arch contaminator only affect core? Unsure there...
Something like the Ironclot furnace I would imagine will not be limited to core.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 16:46:40


Post by: Lord Damocles


'Auras are broken, so lets add another layer of rules to patch over it!'


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 16:49:49


Post by: Dudeface


 Lord Damocles wrote:
'Auras are broken, so lets add another layer of rules to patch over it!'


I'm sure instead of using keywords you can write a list of affected units on the dataslate of each unit if that takes a layer off for you.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 16:54:03


Post by: Sasori


 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/16/core-units-and-characters/

Well, that explains core and helps neuter marines a lot.


Obviously we need to see how this plays out, especially with regards to which units do and don't get the "Core" keyword...

That being said I definitely see this as a net positive. On paper it seems like a happy middle ground between the "remove all auras" crowd and the "stack rerolls on rerolls on rerolls" crowd.



This seems like a pretty positive change overall, and could have some pretty huge ramifications.

This isn't going to affect Necrons much, since nearly everything for us is moving to target abilities. So overall a Netbuff for Necrons it looks like.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 17:08:39


Post by: Saturmorn Carvilli


The Newman wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There really aren't any dangerous snipers though.

SM Eliminators and the AdMech Transuranic Arquebus say hello.


Howdy. There aren't any really dangerous snipers.

Eliminators are more paper tigers than the dangerous snipers than they were believed to be last year. Made more so be the way 9th works in that an army is likely going to have to spend CP as they use up Heavy Support slots to take an appreciable amount to actually be dangerous. And still they have a pretty good chance of costing more resources than the opposing faction. Unless the opponent is going an all-their-eggs-in-the-HQ-basket without redundancies. I don't think I have had a game yet where I felt my Eliminators weren't kinda a waste, and I don't think I haven't ever not fielded them. Maybe if I could convince my opponent to believe they are as dangerous as you believe at least the could be a distraction carnifex.

Arquebuses are eve worse. They can't Move, like at all, and shoot. So getting shot by one is either planet bowling ball or the opponent taking the risk of it not hitting. I don't pay that close attention to Admech lists, but I can't remember the last time I saw one with arquebuses in them since the weapon tends to be more restrictive than useful for using rangers.



Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 17:32:20


Post by: Dysartes


Dudeface wrote:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
'Auras are broken, so lets add another layer of rules to patch over it!'


I'm sure instead of using keywords you can write a list of affected units on the dataslate of each unit if that takes a layer off for you.


Let's keep the keywords - they help with future-proofing.

...like for the next SM wave


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 17:57:47


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


The Newman wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There really aren't any dangerous snipers though.

SM Eliminators and the AdMech Transuranic Arquebus say hello.

UH yeah those aren't dangerous. Have you ever actually ran the math in those? Hell, TransArqs can't even move if they wanna shoot too!


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 18:06:39


Post by: Sasori


Looks like the Royal Warden is also gaining relentless March in the new codex.



Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 18:24:43


Post by: tneva82


 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
The Newman wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There really aren't any dangerous snipers though.

SM Eliminators and the AdMech Transuranic Arquebus say hello.


Howdy. There aren't any really dangerous snipers.

Eliminators are more paper tigers than the dangerous snipers than they were believed to be last year. Made more so be the way 9th works in that an army is likely going to have to spend CP as they use up Heavy Support slots to take an appreciable amount to actually be dangerous. And still they have a pretty good chance of costing more resources than the opposing faction. Unless the opponent is going an all-their-eggs-in-the-HQ-basket without redundancies. I don't think I have had a game yet where I felt my Eliminators weren't kinda a waste, and I don't think I haven't ever not fielded them. Maybe if I could convince my opponent to believe they are as dangerous as you believe at least the could be a distraction carnifex.

Arquebuses are eve worse. They can't Move, like at all, and shoot. So getting shot by one is either planet bowling ball or the opponent taking the risk of it not hitting. I don't pay that close attention to Admech lists, but I can't remember the last time I saw one with arquebuses in them since the weapon tends to be more restrictive than useful for using rangers.



9e is planet bowling ball ed though with los being more easily gained than in 8e


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 18:44:19


Post by: Dudeface


tneva82 wrote:
 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
The Newman wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There really aren't any dangerous snipers though.

SM Eliminators and the AdMech Transuranic Arquebus say hello.


Howdy. There aren't any really dangerous snipers.

Eliminators are more paper tigers than the dangerous snipers than they were believed to be last year. Made more so be the way 9th works in that an army is likely going to have to spend CP as they use up Heavy Support slots to take an appreciable amount to actually be dangerous. And still they have a pretty good chance of costing more resources than the opposing faction. Unless the opponent is going an all-their-eggs-in-the-HQ-basket without redundancies. I don't think I have had a game yet where I felt my Eliminators weren't kinda a waste, and I don't think I haven't ever not fielded them. Maybe if I could convince my opponent to believe they are as dangerous as you believe at least the could be a distraction carnifex.

Arquebuses are eve worse. They can't Move, like at all, and shoot. So getting shot by one is either planet bowling ball or the opponent taking the risk of it not hitting. I don't pay that close attention to Admech lists, but I can't remember the last time I saw one with arquebuses in them since the weapon tends to be more restrictive than useful for using rangers.



9e is planet bowling ball ed though with los being more easily gained than in 8e


Use more obscuring terrain? I don't think anyone else has had this complaint tbh.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 18:47:33


Post by: the_scotsman


tneva82 wrote:
 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
The Newman wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There really aren't any dangerous snipers though.

SM Eliminators and the AdMech Transuranic Arquebus say hello.


Howdy. There aren't any really dangerous snipers.

Eliminators are more paper tigers than the dangerous snipers than they were believed to be last year. Made more so be the way 9th works in that an army is likely going to have to spend CP as they use up Heavy Support slots to take an appreciable amount to actually be dangerous. And still they have a pretty good chance of costing more resources than the opposing faction. Unless the opponent is going an all-their-eggs-in-the-HQ-basket without redundancies. I don't think I have had a game yet where I felt my Eliminators weren't kinda a waste, and I don't think I haven't ever not fielded them. Maybe if I could convince my opponent to believe they are as dangerous as you believe at least the could be a distraction carnifex.

Arquebuses are eve worse. They can't Move, like at all, and shoot. So getting shot by one is either planet bowling ball or the opponent taking the risk of it not hitting. I don't pay that close attention to Admech lists, but I can't remember the last time I saw one with arquebuses in them since the weapon tends to be more restrictive than useful for using rangers.



9e is planet bowling ball ed though with los being more easily gained than in 8e


I'm assuming you're comparing houseruled 8e (ITC) with core 9e?

Because IIRC there is no rule that prevents TLOS in core 8e.

If so, why not just choose to run the exact same 8e houserule in 9e? Or tweak the Obscuring trait in some other way, for example removing the clause that causes it to cease to be when a model enters the area terrain border?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 18:48:35


Post by: ERJAK


 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
The Newman wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There really aren't any dangerous snipers though.

SM Eliminators and the AdMech Transuranic Arquebus say hello.


Howdy. There aren't any really dangerous snipers.

Eliminators are more paper tigers than the dangerous snipers than they were believed to be last year. Made more so be the way 9th works in that an army is likely going to have to spend CP as they use up Heavy Support slots to take an appreciable amount to actually be dangerous. And still they have a pretty good chance of costing more resources than the opposing faction. Unless the opponent is going an all-their-eggs-in-the-HQ-basket without redundancies. I don't think I have had a game yet where I felt my Eliminators weren't kinda a waste, and I don't think I haven't ever not fielded them. Maybe if I could convince my opponent to believe they are as dangerous as you believe at least the could be a distraction carnifex.

Arquebuses are eve worse. They can't Move, like at all, and shoot. So getting shot by one is either planet bowling ball or the opponent taking the risk of it not hitting. I don't pay that close attention to Admech lists, but I can't remember the last time I saw one with arquebuses in them since the weapon tends to be more restrictive than useful for using rangers.



Tell that to my 4 wound T3, 3+ 6++ imagifiers. Sure, they're not out there acing captains or anything but weak buff characters are lunch to the few good sniper units in the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sasori wrote:
 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/16/core-units-and-characters/

Well, that explains core and helps neuter marines a lot.


Obviously we need to see how this plays out, especially with regards to which units do and don't get the "Core" keyword...

That being said I definitely see this as a net positive. On paper it seems like a happy middle ground between the "remove all auras" crowd and the "stack rerolls on rerolls on rerolls" crowd.



This seems like a pretty positive change overall, and could have some pretty huge ramifications.

This isn't going to affect Necrons much, since nearly everything for us is moving to target abilities. So overall a Netbuff for Necrons it looks like.


Don't take warhammer community calling out 'aura' abilities as gospel. It's still entirely possible that my will be done ALSO only applies to core now. We won't know until we see the new rule printed in the new codex.

What I will say is that this (barring points adjustments) is a deathnell for a lot of offensive vehicles. The executioner was already trash, if it doesn't get a significant bit of help, being stuck with it's own ballistics skill (especially after it degrades) will make it just tragic. For sisters, retributors are very likely to get CORE and Exorcists are very UNLIKELY to get core, which honestly pushes exorcists out of contention for the most part. Still better than a lot of other army's long range firepower, but just not able to stand up to the newly massively deadly, massively resilient, retributors.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 20:17:42


Post by: macluvin


Honestly I think overall this is good for the game. Also makes me glad that I was stupid enough to try running chaos space marine squads in 7th edition because with all the cultist slamming going on with each rules update ain’t no way in the warp that cultists are getting the core keyword. RIP black legion/IW cultist swarm armies.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 20:31:59


Post by: Platuan4th


ERJAK wrote:
 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
The Newman wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There really aren't any dangerous snipers though.

SM Eliminators and the AdMech Transuranic Arquebus say hello.


Howdy. There aren't any really dangerous snipers.

Eliminators are more paper tigers than the dangerous snipers than they were believed to be last year. Made more so be the way 9th works in that an army is likely going to have to spend CP as they use up Heavy Support slots to take an appreciable amount to actually be dangerous. And still they have a pretty good chance of costing more resources than the opposing faction. Unless the opponent is going an all-their-eggs-in-the-HQ-basket without redundancies. I don't think I have had a game yet where I felt my Eliminators weren't kinda a waste, and I don't think I haven't ever not fielded them. Maybe if I could convince my opponent to believe they are as dangerous as you believe at least the could be a distraction carnifex.

Arquebuses are eve worse. They can't Move, like at all, and shoot. So getting shot by one is either planet bowling ball or the opponent taking the risk of it not hitting. I don't pay that close attention to Admech lists, but I can't remember the last time I saw one with arquebuses in them since the weapon tends to be more restrictive than useful for using rangers.



Tell that to my 4 wound T3, 3+ 6++ imagifiers. Sure, they're not out there acing captains or anything but weak buff characters are lunch to the few good sniper units in the game.




If an Eliminator squad kills a single Imagifier costing half what they do, that's not a good return on investment.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 20:38:01


Post by: Sasori


 Platuan4th wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
The Newman wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There really aren't any dangerous snipers though.

SM Eliminators and the AdMech Transuranic Arquebus say hello.


Howdy. There aren't any really dangerous snipers.

Eliminators are more paper tigers than the dangerous snipers than they were believed to be last year. Made more so be the way 9th works in that an army is likely going to have to spend CP as they use up Heavy Support slots to take an appreciable amount to actually be dangerous. And still they have a pretty good chance of costing more resources than the opposing faction. Unless the opponent is going an all-their-eggs-in-the-HQ-basket without redundancies. I don't think I have had a game yet where I felt my Eliminators weren't kinda a waste, and I don't think I haven't ever not fielded them. Maybe if I could convince my opponent to believe they are as dangerous as you believe at least the could be a distraction carnifex.

Arquebuses are eve worse. They can't Move, like at all, and shoot. So getting shot by one is either planet bowling ball or the opponent taking the risk of it not hitting. I don't pay that close attention to Admech lists, but I can't remember the last time I saw one with arquebuses in them since the weapon tends to be more restrictive than useful for using rangers.



Tell that to my 4 wound T3, 3+ 6++ imagifiers. Sure, they're not out there acing captains or anything but weak buff characters are lunch to the few good sniper units in the game.




If an Eliminator squad kills a single Imagifier costing half what they do, that's not a good return on investment.



It's not always about just killing an equal number of points though. If you can take out a lynchpin unit that provides a large buff, that can be much more impact than just it's points value.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 20:41:04


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Yeah but what's the price for those Eliminators compared to the cost of the Imagifier? Chances are the character is a LOT cheaper and you get multiples of them.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 21:04:46


Post by: Mr Morden


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah but what's the price for those Eliminators compared to the cost of the Imagifier? Chances are the character is a LOT cheaper and you get multiples of them.


Imagifier is 45pts and good chance has CP spent on her.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 21:20:07


Post by: Sterling191


 Platuan4th wrote:

If an Eliminator squad kills a single Imagifier costing half what they do, that's not a good return on investment.


Its an excellent return on investment if the Imagifier is a Valorous Heart anchor thats keeping her entire army ignoring AP2.

Character removal isnt about raw points return. It's about taking force multipliers or beatstick threats off the table.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 21:36:14


Post by: Argive


Sterling191 wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:

If an Eliminator squad kills a single Imagifier costing half what they do, that's not a good return on investment.


Its an excellent return on investment if the Imagifier is a Valorous Heart anchor thats keeping her entire army ignoring AP2.

Character removal isnt about raw points return. It's about taking force multipliers or beatstick threats off the table.


I rely on my 2W T3 4++ 55pt(or whatever he is now) warlock to cast protect on my 300 blobb of wraiths or jinxing your blob of XYZ/ Titanic unit and using seer council strat with his T3 4W 4++ farseer buddy.

You kill that 2W HQ and my army looses a very significant chunk of how it works..

Maybe people have been playing Marines so much they don't understand other armies NEED support for their hq/character for most of their codex units to function properly...


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 21:40:46


Post by: Platuan4th


It's probably more that we're used to seeing people build redundancy into their lists where taking out ONE cheap buffer isn't the biggest deal because there's 1-2 more of the same one.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 22:01:21


Post by: Argive


 Platuan4th wrote:
It's probably more that we're used to seeing people build redundancy into their lists where taking out ONE cheap buffer isn't the biggest deal because there's 1-2 more of the same one.


And spend more pts on over costed 2W t3 body? Then in turn have less pts to spend on already inefficient units that don't work on their own..
if you can snipe one 2W warlock you can spine two...

Of course there are ways around it It means you have to use terrain, transports and deployment to counter what your opponent is doing which by virtue of them taking eliminators/snipy intercessors/equivalent sniper might pay for them without having to fire a single shot.

Sniping t3 low wound models is very doable with most dedicated sniper units. Gets tricky as soon as you move up to anything beefier.
I made a for fun list with 3 squads of rangers, illic, and a snipy reaper launcher autarch before legends and between them they struggled to pop a single DG/SM character. Same list vs guard and I was sniping their dudes all day long.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 22:11:04


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Argive wrote:
Sterling191 wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:

If an Eliminator squad kills a single Imagifier costing half what they do, that's not a good return on investment.


Its an excellent return on investment if the Imagifier is a Valorous Heart anchor thats keeping her entire army ignoring AP2.

Character removal isnt about raw points return. It's about taking force multipliers or beatstick threats off the table.


I rely on my 2W T3 4++ 55pt(or whatever he is now) warlock to cast protect on my 300 blobb of wraiths or jinxing your blob of XYZ/ Titanic unit and using seer council strat with his T3 4W 4++ farseer buddy.

You kill that 2W HQ and my army looses a very significant chunk of how it works..

Maybe people have been playing Marines so much they don't understand other armies NEED support for their hq/character for most of their codex units to function properly...

A W2 T3 model at 55 points is so overcosted to begin with I dunno if that's a serious comment from you or not.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 22:19:50


Post by: cody.d.


Sterling191 wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:

If an Eliminator squad kills a single Imagifier costing half what they do, that's not a good return on investment.


Its an excellent return on investment if the Imagifier is a Valorous Heart anchor thats keeping her entire army ignoring AP2.

Character removal isnt about raw points return. It's about taking force multipliers or beatstick threats off the table.


It's not about taking force multipliers or beatstick threats off the table.

It's about sending a message.

Jokes aside you're right, if you invest a hundred or 2 points into killing a key buff then it can devalue enemy units or increase the efficiency of your own. Killing a spell caster is usually worth it's weight in gold and can swing games.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 23:06:57


Post by: Argive


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Argive wrote:
Sterling191 wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:

If an Eliminator squad kills a single Imagifier costing half what they do, that's not a good return on investment.


Its an excellent return on investment if the Imagifier is a Valorous Heart anchor thats keeping her entire army ignoring AP2.

Character removal isnt about raw points return. It's about taking force multipliers or beatstick threats off the table.


I rely on my 2W T3 4++ 55pt(or whatever he is now) warlock to cast protect on my 300 blobb of wraiths or jinxing your blob of XYZ/ Titanic unit and using seer council strat with his T3 4W 4++ farseer buddy.

You kill that 2W HQ and my army looses a very significant chunk of how it works..

Maybe people have been playing Marines so much they don't understand other armies NEED support for their hq/character for most of their codex units to function properly...

A W2 T3 model at 55 points is so overcosted to begin with I dunno if that's a serious comment from you or not.


It is when the 1 w T3 troops you taking are 15pts while making a battalion and you have to take him because only reason you take him is that you can either kill something with jinx or buff something you have sunk half your poitns into... He cant even survive a perils reliably ffs... let alone something shooting at him. So yeah..


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 23:13:03


Post by: BrianDavion


 Argive wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
It's probably more that we're used to seeing people build redundancy into their lists where taking out ONE cheap buffer isn't the biggest deal because there's 1-2 more of the same one.


And spend more pts on over costed 2W t3 body?


if that unit is so vital to making your army function your list collapses without it, is he over costed?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 23:19:27


Post by: H.B.M.C.


So characters cannot benefit from their own auras. Hmm. I think the only real Tyranid loser there is the Neurothrope. Of course that assumes GW didn't make the Malanthrope unable to benefit from it's spore cloud...

 Sasori wrote:
Looks like the Royal Warden is also gaining relentless March in the new codex.

Spoiler:
Which WD are these pics from?




Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 23:26:36


Post by: Aeneades


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So characters cannot benefit from their own auras. Hmm. I think the only real Tyranid loser there is the Neurothrope. Of course that assumes GW didn't make the Malanthrope unable to benefit from it's spore cloud...

 Sasori wrote:
Looks like the Royal Warden is also gaining relentless March in the new codex.

Spoiler:
Which WD are these pics from?




This months issue. I believe it is officially released this Saturday but UK subscribers received late last week / early this week.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/16 23:39:32


Post by: Argive


BrianDavion wrote:
 Argive wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
It's probably more that we're used to seeing people build redundancy into their lists where taking out ONE cheap buffer isn't the biggest deal because there's 1-2 more of the same one.


And spend more pts on over costed 2W t3 body?


if that unit is so vital to making your army function your list collapses without it, is he over costed?


He is if on a roll double 1 or 6 he dies when trying to fulfill his function...which he has a 58/% of fulfilling...

Lets not talk about the warlock anymore... Going way off topic.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/17 01:11:18


Post by: Sasori


From reddit, snippit from the first codex preview Makes me feel a lot less optimistic than I did earlier about things like MWBD not being affected by this.


Psychic Powers:

Veil of Time: Unaffected

Might of Heroes: Core or Character

Null Zone: Not applicable

Psychic Scourge: Not applicable

Fury of the Ancients: Not Applicable

Psychic Fortress: Cut off but seems unaffected

Note- The Obscuration Discipline seems to be unchanged on this front, but I can only see 2 powers.

Litanies

Litany of Hate: Core or Character

Litany of Faith: Core or Character

Catechism of Fire: Core or Character

Exhortation of Rage: Core or Character (Note, this is gonna be +1 to wound in melee on 1 unit)

Mantra of Strength: Not Applicable

Recitation of Focus: Core or Character

Canticle of Hate: Core or Character

Warlord Traits

Storm of Fire: Core only


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/17 02:59:08


Post by: Alwrath


macluvin wrote:
Honestly I think overall this is good for the game. Also makes me glad that I was stupid enough to try running chaos space marine squads in 7th edition because with all the cultist slamming going on with each rules update ain’t no way in the warp that cultists are getting the core keyword. RIP black legion/IW cultist swarm armies.


lol no one ever took cultists for re roll auras, cultists are there to claim objectives and be cannon fodder/distraction for your opponent. Cultists will still be used im sure.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/17 15:17:38


Post by: Latro_


I wonder if the new CORE keyword will replace 'ob sec' style rules instead of the troops role.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/17 15:24:15


Post by: Voss


 Latro_ wrote:
I wonder if the new CORE keyword will replace 'ob sec' style rules instead of the troops role.

That'd be really broad, since we know Terminators and Bikes are getting Core.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/17 17:26:00


Post by: tneva82


 Latro_ wrote:
I wonder if the new CORE keyword will replace 'ob sec' style rules instead of the troops role.


Troops too good needing nerf in your mind?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/17 17:31:47


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


Cultists are garbage tho


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/17 18:14:39


Post by: ERJAK


 Latro_ wrote:
I wonder if the new CORE keyword will replace 'ob sec' style rules instead of the troops role.


Why would they?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sasori wrote:
From reddit, snippit from the first codex preview Makes me feel a lot less optimistic than I did earlier about things like MWBD not being affected by this.

Spoiler:

Psychic Powers:

Veil of Time: Unaffected

Might of Heroes: Core or Character

Null Zone: Not applicable

Psychic Scourge: Not applicable

Fury of the Ancients: Not Applicable

Psychic Fortress: Cut off but seems unaffected

Note- The Obscuration Discipline seems to be unchanged on this front, but I can only see 2 powers.

Litanies

Litany of Hate: Core or Character

Litany of Faith: Core or Character

Catechism of Fire: Core or Character

Exhortation of Rage: Core or Character (Note, this is gonna be +1 to wound in melee on 1 unit)

Mantra of Strength: Not Applicable

Recitation of Focus: Core or Character

Canticle of Hate: Core or Character

Warlord Traits

Storm of Fire: Core only


If they hit imagifiers with that and basically every infantry model in the codex isn't core, that could instantly kill off every Valorous heart and Argent shroud list entirely.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/17 18:34:59


Post by: Umbros


ERJAK wrote:
 Latro_ wrote:
I wonder if the new CORE keyword will replace 'ob sec' style rules instead of the troops role.


Why would they?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sasori wrote:
From reddit, snippit from the first codex preview Makes me feel a lot less optimistic than I did earlier about things like MWBD not being affected by this.

Spoiler:

Psychic Powers:

Veil of Time: Unaffected

Might of Heroes: Core or Character

Null Zone: Not applicable

Psychic Scourge: Not applicable

Fury of the Ancients: Not Applicable

Psychic Fortress: Cut off but seems unaffected

Note- The Obscuration Discipline seems to be unchanged on this front, but I can only see 2 powers.

Litanies

Litany of Hate: Core or Character

Litany of Faith: Core or Character

Catechism of Fire: Core or Character

Exhortation of Rage: Core or Character (Note, this is gonna be +1 to wound in melee on 1 unit)

Mantra of Strength: Not Applicable

Recitation of Focus: Core or Character

Canticle of Hate: Core or Character

Warlord Traits

Storm of Fire: Core only


If they hit imagifiers with that and basically every infantry model in the codex isn't core, that could instantly kill off every Valorous heart and Argent shroud list entirely.

This is such a niche speculation. I wouldn't worry yourself with this right now...


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/17 18:40:20


Post by: Captain Joystick


ERJAK wrote:
If they hit imagifiers with that and basically every infantry model in the codex isn't core, that could instantly kill off every Valorous heart and Argent shroud list entirely.


If anything Dominions, Retributors and even Celestians are all but guaranteed to be since they're basically battle sisters with a slightly tweaked focus.

More likely though you can probably expect the vehicles and characters not to get it, which will probably undercut the Valorous Heart perhaps just enough to see the other Orders on the table.

Of course, that assumes they're going to apply core retroactively to everybody and not introduce them as new codexes come out, which I don't believe they're doing.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/17 18:50:23


Post by: ERJAK


 Captain Joystick wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
If they hit imagifiers with that and basically every infantry model in the codex isn't core, that could instantly kill off every Valorous heart and Argent shroud list entirely.


If anything Dominions, Retributors and even Celestians are all but guaranteed to be since they're basically battle sisters with a slightly tweaked focus.

More likely though you can probably expect the vehicles and characters not to get it, which will probably undercut the Valorous Heart perhaps just enough to see the other Orders on the table.

Of course, that assumes they're going to apply core retroactively to everybody and not introduce them as new codexes come out, which I don't believe they're doing.


Valorous heart never really benefited vehicles that much anyway. It gave a lot of guard lists fits but most army's anti-tank is AP-3 or better. All this would do for VH lists is cause you to switch to Retributors in all cases instead of it being meta dependent. Also, it doesn't assume a FAQ, it assumes that they're not making significant structural changes or meaningful points changes to the codex, which with the SoB book they kind of don't really need to. Everything in the book sort of just works now that they fixed heavy bolters and multimeltas being godawful. The only thing they really need to update is the Sacred Rose and MAYBE OoML order conviction and a handful of relics/warlord traits.

Sidebar: Bloody rose is the more competitive list right now and the only aura they really care about is the priest's. Which would be hilarious if they're stingey with core "Here's a +1 attack aura that works on...nothing that wants to be in melee!"


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/17 18:51:27


Post by: Voss


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Cultists are garbage tho


Because they're overpriced. Which only started because they were deemed 'too good' with Legion traits. But they don't get those anymore. Or a lot of strats.

If they get repriced as the 'guardsmen with even fewer benefits, options and support' they actually are, they don't have to be bad.

And since there are fluff reasons to not consider them core (in a chaos marine list, if lotd happen, obviously they'll be core there), it solves a lot of issues with worrying about the extra cost because they might possibly benefit from buffs that aren't aimed at them.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/17 19:11:03


Post by: tneva82


 Captain Joystick wrote:


Of course, that assumes they're going to apply core retroactively to everybody and not introduce them as new codexes come out, which I don't believe they're doing.


Gw said they roll these out with codexes. No reason to think that's not the case


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/18 16:04:01


Post by: Matrindur


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/18/battlezone-pariah-the-story-so-far/

"Whether you’re a fan of Crusade or just enjoy reading all about the ever-evolving background of Warhammer 40,000, make sure you pre-order your copy next weekend. On that note, check back with us in a few days to learn more about Beyond the Veil in our Sunday Preview!"

So the crusade expansion Beyond the Veil will be up for preorder next weekend so maybe we will get the four ETB models with it?



Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/18 16:26:50


Post by: Sasori


Matrindur wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/18/battlezone-pariah-the-story-so-far/

"Whether you’re a fan of Crusade or just enjoy reading all about the ever-evolving background of Warhammer 40,000, make sure you pre-order your copy next weekend. On that note, check back with us in a few days to learn more about Beyond the Veil in our Sunday Preview!"

So the crusade expansion Beyond the Veil will be up for preorder next weekend so maybe we will get the four ETB models with it?



Yeah, this seems like a fine time to release the Lokhust and Doomstalker kits.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/18 17:25:26


Post by: Cryptek of Awesome



Sisters of Silence in the Pariah zone?

"It's not that bad. I'm not saying I'd like to build a summer home here, but the lack of chaotic monstrosities is actually quite lovely."

Spoiler:



Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/18 20:51:18


Post by: jspyd3rx


Crons are gonna turn the Sisters of Silence into the new updated Pariahs.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/18 21:32:03


Post by: Deikov


 jspyd3rx wrote:
Crons are gonna turn the Sisters of Silence into the new updated Pariahs.


You know, I would like that.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/19 13:48:20


Post by: Lord Damocles


Cryptek of Awesome wrote:

Sisters of Silence in the Pariah zone?

It's just reused art. Nothing to see here.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/20 22:58:34


Post by: H.B.M.C.


We have a general AoS release thread, but still none for 40K so... here'll have to do!

Up for pre-order this weekend:

Crusade book

"This is the first narrative Mission Pack for Crusade, and it includes 24 exciting missions for you to play at four different game sizes (six for each). It contains extra Agendas, Battle Traits, Relics, and Battle Scars, as well as all-new rules for Afflictions and Theatre of War rules for the Pariah Nexus, making it perfect for theming your games in this strange and deadly region of space."

Tactical Deployment

"Along with 18 brand-new missions for all sizes of game,* the Mission Pack includes extensive rules for playing Tactical Deployment games, focusing on Tactical Terrain. Now, you bring your own terrain to the battle and, depending on the type, it will have specific rules."

Tactical Datasheet Cards (oh God...)

"This set of cards includes narrative and matched play terrain rules for a range of Manufactorum pieces. It also features rules for three different Battlezones. Whatever kind of player you are, you’ll want to grab these cards to take your terrain to the next level."

Battlezone: Manufactorum – Vertigus

"Along with 24 individual pieces of terrain, the kit also includes two double-sided game boards for you to play on, making it perfect for Combat Patrol- and Incursion-sized games."

Battlezone: Manufactorum – Sub-cloister and Storage Fane + Battlezone: Manufactorum – Sanctum Administratus

"The Sub-cloister and Storage Fane were originally in the Warhammer 40,000 Command Edition box, and are now available separately for the first time, giving you additional flexibility when it comes to building your battlefield. The Sanctum Administratus is based on the Sector Imperialis Manufactorum, but contains additional sprues, meaning you can construct an incredible three-storey ruin."

Battlezone: Manufactorum - Munitorum Armoured Containers + Battlezone: Manufactorum – Conservators

"Finally, we have some old favourites being reboxed. The Munitorum Armoured Containers have always been popular (they finished 7th in 2016’s model of the year poll!), while the terrain in the Battlezone: Manufactorum – Conservators kit has been seen in countless dioramas."

Wonder where the Servo-Hauler's crane sprue went. I do hope the Armoured Containers didn't get a shiny new price to go along with their box. The Sanctum Administratus just looks like the current Manufactorum with an extra sprue. And then there are those cards...


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 04:24:11


Post by: BrianDavion


So my local GW manager confirmed to me today that assault intercessor kits are gonna be 100% with tactical intercessors so we'll be able to mix and match freely from those kits. not a suprise but good to know. In his words "I'm looking forward to having rifle intercessors who are running"


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 04:30:10


Post by: H.B.M.C.


They said the legs'd work with regular Intercessors on the stream.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 04:39:13


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They said the legs'd work with regular Intercessors on the stream.


explains it, I didn't catch the stream. still it's nice. now if we can only get GW to produce some additional intercessor kits we might be able to produce more varity in our squads and poses


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 07:56:17


Post by: H.B.M.C.


BrianDavion wrote:
explains it, I didn't catch the stream. still it's nice. now if we can only get GW to produce some additional intercessor kits we might be able to produce more varity in our squads and poses
Be careful what you wish for. An Intercessor kit with all the available Sergeant options sounds like a good idea, but won't once you realise that it jumps a price bracket or two to include them, even if the Marines themselves don't change at all.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 07:59:28


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Of the new releases? Liking the single Container and Hauler configuration.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 08:05:29


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Of the new releases? Liking the single Container and Hauler configuration.
Worries me that the crane is gone.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 08:08:06


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


It’s a mix/match new set so far as I can see?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 08:13:53


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s a mix/match new set so far as I can see?
So is the current Necromunda Dark Uprising box, and the pipes in that are no longer available. I'm worried the same fate will befall the crane.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 12:24:25


Post by: Matrindur


Battlezone: Manufactorum – Sub-cloister and Storage Fane – £35

Battlezone: Manufactorum – Sanctum Administratus – £50

Battlezone: Manufactorum – Vertigus – £90

Battlezone: Manufactorum – Munitorum Armoured Containers – £32.5 (Which is actually less than the current £35 with the same content)

Battlezone: Manufactorum – Conservators – £25

Chapter Approved Mission Pack – Tactical Deployment – £25

Crusade Mission Pack – Beyond the Veil – £25

Battlezone: Manufactorum – Terrain Datasheet Cards – £15


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 13:21:56


Post by: xttz


Feeling pretty happy with that. A couple of weeks ago I came very close to buying two of the new battlefield expansion sets + containers for £109. Now Vertigus plus the reboxed containers give me most of the same stuff for £92.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 14:05:43


Post by: Dudeface


Anyone else wondering what the hell happened to the extra easy build kits?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 14:07:32


Post by: Prometheum5


Dudeface wrote:
Anyone else wondering what the hell happened to the extra easy build kits?


At this point I assume they'll be the wave to drop alongside the Codexes.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 14:28:34


Post by: Matt Swain


Does anyone else think that we'll get an ophydian lord model since we have a destroyer and a skropekh destroyer lord?

OOH, it would seem to follow the pattern we've seen.

OTOH, do we need another HQ? (Hint: Hell no!)

Still, given the differences in deployment and speed between ophydians and skorpekhs, a skorpekh lord can't deploy as these do or keep up with them, so if they have a buff leader they'd need one of their own.



Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 15:04:13


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Matrindur wrote:
Battlezone: Manufactorum – Vertigus – £90


Well I was going to get two...

It's the same price as the AdMech starter box, or $250. That's not cheap.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 15:12:01


Post by: MajorWesJanson


I was looking at the Sanctum Administratus, and cant really tell what added sprues there are. Looks like still 2 mechanicus style walls and at least one floor. maybe a second floor sprue vs the manufactorum?

At least Vertigus contains the command edition terrain plus a second set of pipes, what looks like a new pair of corner building ruins, and the comm array.

I was hoping for the ETB kits to be part of this release, especially with the focus on the pariah veil.

Probably just the crusade pack and one set of vertigus will do for me. Save money for the actual codex releases.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 15:13:31


Post by: Voss


Dudeface wrote:
Anyone else wondering what the hell happened to the extra easy build kits?


Not sure. They had just hinted at them again, so I thought they might be coming. But I guess its october for everything, then.

I assumed last week's lull was to ramp up plastic production (either upcoming or stuff that's still out of stock- it seems silly to launch codexes with large chunks of the necron and even SM range 'temporality out of stock').

We did know some of this terrain was coming, and at least one of the booklets.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 15:20:48


Post by: tneva82


Voss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Anyone else wondering what the hell happened to the extra easy build kits?


Not sure. They had just hinted at them again, so I thought they might be coming. But I guess its october for everything, then.

I assumed last week's lull was to ramp up plastic production (either upcoming or stuff that's still out of stock- it seems silly to launch codexes with large chunks of the necron and even SM range 'temporality out of stock').

We did know some of this terrain was coming, and at least one of the booklets.


They planned this lull long time ago. Not in response to any out of stock issues.



Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 15:30:48


Post by: Dudeface


Voss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Anyone else wondering what the hell happened to the extra easy build kits?


Not sure. They had just hinted at them again, so I thought they might be coming. But I guess its october for everything, then.

I assumed last week's lull was to ramp up plastic production (either upcoming or stuff that's still out of stock- it seems silly to launch codexes with large chunks of the necron and even SM range 'temporality out of stock').

We did know some of this terrain was coming, and at least one of the booklets.


I thought these might be after the releases tbh, they were previewed after a lot of stuff that's yet to be released.

My concern is that as much as October is a 5 Saturday month, either faction could easily fill the whole month atm. So I wonder if we'll only get a couple of marine bits then the rest spread out again with the supplements maybe.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 16:08:36


Post by: Gadzilla666


I just want to know when they're going to release the Imperial Armour Compendium. It's been a long, long wait.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 16:14:54


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Big article about stuff.

We now have something called "terrain points":






Also, and I'm not sure if this is new, but the Terrain section has been reorganised into the following categories:

1. All Terrain (duh).

2. Gameboards (has the board pack, the Command Expansion, and the sold out Moon Base).

3. Area Terrain (all the Sector Mechanicus stuff, the reactors, the SoB building, some of the Sector Imperialis stuff, Servo-Haulers, and the Command Expansion)

4. Warzone: Scourge Stars (Sector Mechanicus stuff, plus Sector Imperialis Manufactourm (both versions), Crown and the Nurgle tree).

5. Buildings (Tau Gun, Drone and Shieldline, Void Shield, Crown, Webway Gate, Bastion, Skyshield, Bunker and Fort of Redemption

6. Warzone: Cadia (has the defence line/emplacement/bunker, ADL, containers, Crown, Fort of Redemption and the Skyshield)

7. Obstacles (Mek Workshop, Containers, Command Expansion, Imperialis Ruins, Moon Base)

8. Warzone: Ultramar (some Sector Imperialis stuff, SoB building, Nurgle Tree, Crown

9. Warzone: Fifth Sphere Expansion (just the Tau buildings)

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I was looking at the Sanctum Administratus, and cant really tell what added sprues there are. Looks like still 2 mechanicus style walls and at least one floor. maybe a second floor sprue vs the manufactorum?
It'll just be more of this sprue. Current one has two of those and a floor sprue. This might have an extra wall sprue and if we're lucky an extra floor sprue.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
At least Vertigus contains the command edition terrain plus a second set of pipes, what looks like a new pair of corner building ruins, and the comm array.
Vertigus is a double Expansion box, less one of the fuel container thingies, but gaining that psychic relay thingy.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 16:28:02


Post by: Matrindur


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/21/whats-a-battlezone/

New article about Battlezones and Tactical Deployment games

Not much about how that will work only that there will be terrain points which you pay to take terrain pieces you want which in turn can be preconfigured combinations of existing terrain which also has some narrative rules
(Example is an Engine Shed for 60 pts which is 3 building parts together and infantry inside can try to heal a vehicle inside, also models on the top floor get reroll wound rolls of 1 when fighting against enemies on the lower floor)

What is interesting about all of that is that is seems we will only be getting rules for Battlezone: Manufactorum (at least the cards are only for those terrain pieces) but the webstore already has entries for

Warzone: Scourge Stars (Sector Mechanicus stuff, plus Sector Imperialis Manufactourm (both versions), Crown and the Nurgle tree).
Warzone: Cadia (has the defence line/emplacement/bunker, ADL, containers, Crown, Fort of Redemption and the Skyshield)
Warzone: Ultramar (some Sector Imperialis stuff, SoB building, Nurgle Tree, Crown)
Warzone: Fifth Sphere Expansion (just the Tau buildings)
as said above

and the fact they are also talking about the connection to the Beyond the Veil book with Warzone: Pariah

So my guess is we will be getting more Crusade mission packs as campaign books for new Warzones and accompanying them will be expansions to the different terrain cathegories

Also the fact the Tau building are also Warzone so faction specific terrain is also something that can happen


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 16:28:49


Post by: Mr_Rose


Because this isn’t dumb at all: there are two articles on the Warhammr Community front page right now called “battlezone {%value%}” but are they about the same general topic? Heck no!


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 16:33:14


Post by: Voss


tneva82 wrote:
Voss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Anyone else wondering what the hell happened to the extra easy build kits?


Not sure. They had just hinted at them again, so I thought they might be coming. But I guess its october for everything, then.

I assumed last week's lull was to ramp up plastic production (either upcoming or stuff that's still out of stock- it seems silly to launch codexes with large chunks of the necron and even SM range 'temporality out of stock').

We did know some of this terrain was coming, and at least one of the booklets.


They planned this lull long time ago. Not in response to any out of stock issues.



The 'out of stock issues' have been going on for 6 months (I was trying and failing to get necron wraiths back before the price change), and overlap with the period their factory was shutdown for lockdown. If you think they haven't revised their release schedule in light of everything that happened this year, I don't know what to tell you.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 16:44:28


Post by: Overread


Overseas also gets affected for longer because GW can't just cast up to fill gaps, they have to ship in batches which is also impacted by shipping changes the world over.

We can tell things are in a bit of mess even though GW is doing really well at present. Considering that we have two brand new army updates without any new codex release and already have a rules expansion and terrain feature expansion before new codex for the new edition. This is clearly a case that GW has had to move things around to less than ideal slots to give themselves some breathing room between Indomitus and the Marine/Necron launches. I suspect originally they'd have followed hot on the heels of Indomitus - no need to reprint we'd have had the retail release of those kits already.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 18:49:50


Post by: Argive


Yeah i dont see this getting traction in my local group

"hey I wana play 40k, whose up game 2k pts"

"Me. Hey can I bring my own terrain that has special rules I will have to explain that you don't know about?"

"errmmm.. can we just use the terrain available plus feel to bring anything you wana bring which will just be nromal terrain?"

"Yeah.. ok..."


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 18:51:33


Post by: tneva82


Voss wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Voss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Anyone else wondering what the hell happened to the extra easy build kits?


Not sure. They had just hinted at them again, so I thought they might be coming. But I guess its october for everything, then.

I assumed last week's lull was to ramp up plastic production (either upcoming or stuff that's still out of stock- it seems silly to launch codexes with large chunks of the necron and even SM range 'temporality out of stock').

We did know some of this terrain was coming, and at least one of the booklets.


They planned this lull long time ago. Not in response to any out of stock issues.



The 'out of stock issues' have been going on for 6 months (I was trying and failing to get necron wraiths back before the price change), and overlap with the period their factory was shutdown for lockdown. If you think they haven't revised their release schedule in light of everything that happened this year, I don't know what to tell you.


And if you think they didn't do revision long time ago and instead are winging it by the week lol. You have no idea how companies operate.

Newsflash: lockdown ended months ago. In case you have been living under the rock gw has been operating for months


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 19:05:14


Post by: Voss


tneva82 wrote:
Voss wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Voss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Anyone else wondering what the hell happened to the extra easy build kits?


Not sure. They had just hinted at them again, so I thought they might be coming. But I guess its october for everything, then.

I assumed last week's lull was to ramp up plastic production (either upcoming or stuff that's still out of stock- it seems silly to launch codexes with large chunks of the necron and even SM range 'temporality out of stock').

We did know some of this terrain was coming, and at least one of the booklets.


They planned this lull long time ago. Not in response to any out of stock issues.



The 'out of stock issues' have been going on for 6 months (I was trying and failing to get necron wraiths back before the price change), and overlap with the period their factory was shutdown for lockdown. If you think they haven't revised their release schedule in light of everything that happened this year, I don't know what to tell you.


And if you think they didn't do revision long time ago and instead are winging it by the week lol. You have no idea how companies operate.

Newsflash: lockdown ended months ago. In case you have been living under the rock gw has been operating for months


What are you gibbering about? Who said anything about week by week?
I know they scheduled last week's lull in advance. You know, an easy release schedule to help cope with the giant backlog they have and all the projects they still have coming out- they still haven't caught up to everything yet- remember the giants?

Yes, they've been operating for months- that isn't a 'long time ago.' They still have to catch up with the lockdown period, when they were making nothing, and the distancing period when they had fewer people and were working at reduced capacity. The extra MTO for Indomitus, and everything else they have to deal with this year. The had to revise what they originally planned to account for all of that, it doesn't magically go away or fit into work shifts that didn't exist. So there are lulls in releases rather than back to back to back releases, so that can get in the production time to juggle the new releases with the giant backlog they still have.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 19:09:51


Post by: jullevi


 Mr_Rose wrote:
Because this isn’t dumb at all: there are two articles on the Warhammr Community front page right now called “battlezone {%value%}” but are they about the same general topic? Heck no!


Would you rather fight on Battlezone Bonanza or Battlezone Pariah?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 19:38:03


Post by: Xenomancers


 Argive wrote:
Yeah i dont see this getting traction in my local group

"hey I wana play 40k, whose up game 2k pts"

"Me. Hey can I bring my own terrain that has special rules I will have to explain that you don't know about?"

"errmmm.. can we just use the terrain available plus feel to bring anything you wana bring which will just be nromal terrain?"

"Yeah.. ok..."
Hey the romans did it...


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/21 19:42:18


Post by: Sterling191


 Argive wrote:
Yeah i dont see this getting traction in my local group

"hey I wana play 40k, whose up game 2k pts"

"Me. Hey can I bring my own terrain that has special rules I will have to explain that you don't know about?"

"errmmm.. can we just use the terrain available plus feel to bring anything you wana bring which will just be nromal terrain?"

"Yeah.. ok..."


What I suspect will happen, especially for LGS play, is folks will just pick their rules and apply it to locally provided terrain instead of having to haul a second case full of building models on top of their armies.

How tournaments embrace (or not) this concept will be interesting to follow.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 01:31:49


Post by: macluvin


So far I’ve liked everything new about the edition, or at least think that generally good changes are coming. The terrain supplements seem like they may polarize the community further, as people that don’t collect (GW) terrain aren’t going to want to Play with those rules. I was about to undertake projects to make my own terrain as I really don’t feel like paying GW prices for terrain, but this sounds like a scheme to break that unwillingness to buy their terrain. I wonder if they would make more money by simply including rules with terrain from the terrain mission supplement... unless buying the book would push people to buy more terrain?


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 02:38:30


Post by: Cryptek of Awesome


These 2 nondescript corner ruins that look like every other corner ruins since the dawn of wargaming are *obviously* a well equipped Engine Shed.

Now watch as this squad of illiterate conscripts grab some rusty tools and in just a few minutes in the middle of a battle repair this vehicle that can normally only be repaired by a Martian techno wizard.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 03:38:55


Post by: alphaecho


Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
These 2 nondescript corner ruins that look like every other corner ruins since the dawn of wargaming are *obviously* a well equipped Engine Shed.

Now watch as this squad of illiterate conscripts grab some rusty tools and in just a few minutes in the middle of a battle repair this vehicle that can normally only be repaired by a Martian techno wizard.




I know what you're getting at but there are aspects of wargaming that have always been abstract. A player's imagination is always required to flesh out the models.


Now, for someone who really wants to get in the swing, the option is there to add some bits.

For example, the card shown is a machine shed. Take any two corner ruins and add some bits from the servo hauler kit, such as the crane arms and/ or some left over parts from tank kits and you have an identifiable machine shed.

Take the exact same corner ruins and add the oil drums for a 'Promethium Storage' (if such a card exists).


I know I have some bits and bobs left over from representing Cities Of Death strategems and the like that can be likely be mixed and matched with a standard building.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 04:27:54


Post by: H.B.M.C.


alphaecho wrote:
I know what you're getting at but there are aspects of wargaming that have always been abstract. A player's imagination is always required to flesh out the models.
Yeah, but now imagine that you have a lot of identical ruins... one of them is the repair thing, another is an ammo dump, another is a comms centre, and so on and so on.

It might get a little silly.



Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 08:10:27


Post by: tneva82


macluvin wrote:
So far I’ve liked everything new about the edition, or at least think that generally good changes are coming. The terrain supplements seem like they may polarize the community further, as people that don’t collect (GW) terrain aren’t going to want to Play with those rules. I was about to undertake projects to make my own terrain as I really don’t feel like paying GW prices for terrain, but this sounds like a scheme to break that unwillingness to buy their terrain. I wonder if they would make more money by simply including rules with terrain from the terrain mission supplement... unless buying the book would push people to buy more terrain?


Well this optional supplement is unlikely to replace tournament pack from tournaments. We have specific ruleset for tournaments with missions etc. Unlikely tournaments will replace that with alternative system. Especially one that makes it harder for people to come.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 08:33:48


Post by: alphaecho


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
alphaecho wrote:
I know what you're getting at but there are aspects of wargaming that have always been abstract. A player's imagination is always required to flesh out the models.
Yeah, but now imagine that you have a lot of identical ruins... one of them is the repair thing, another is an ammo dump, another is a comms centre, and so on and so on.

It might get a little silly.




It might do.

The final option is to have the card in the ruins but I could see that being an annoyance for some.

Fortunately, over time, I've gathered enough little bits to put in different pieces of identical terrain to .


I also understand that some gamers may not have much of a terrain bits box to play with.

Is that the boat you're in.....




Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 08:33:57


Post by: BrianDavion


tneva82 wrote:
macluvin wrote:
So far I’ve liked everything new about the edition, or at least think that generally good changes are coming. The terrain supplements seem like they may polarize the community further, as people that don’t collect (GW) terrain aren’t going to want to Play with those rules. I was about to undertake projects to make my own terrain as I really don’t feel like paying GW prices for terrain, but this sounds like a scheme to break that unwillingness to buy their terrain. I wonder if they would make more money by simply including rules with terrain from the terrain mission supplement... unless buying the book would push people to buy more terrain?


Well this optional supplement is unlikely to replace tournament pack from tournaments. We have specific ruleset for tournaments with missions etc. Unlikely tournaments will replace that with alternative system. Especially one that makes it harder for people to come.


GW I think is trying to appeal to a range of differant people. every edition they release some rules that might be popular but might never catch on.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 08:47:32


Post by: H.B.M.C.


alphaecho wrote:
I also understand that some gamers may not have much of a terrain bits box to play with.

Is that the boat you're in.....
Nah man. I'm still using shoe boxes and toilet rolls.

I guess my resistance to this expansion is twofold:

1. It removes the theme from the table. If two players are bringing a random set of terrain and, worse, are paying "terrain points"* to get specific terrain pieces that are set in stone with rules you're going to end up with the type of utterly random terrain that tneva82** used to show off in the "Your Latest Game" thread.

2. It's too limited. It's limited to these specific set of buildings, and will forever be that way because GW are only going to release rules for the terrain they sell. They don't sell rivers and hills. They don't sell desert wastelands. They don't sell ruined Martian landscapes. Limiting terrain in this game type to just what GW sells and what's on the card makes the terrain lover in me twitch with annoyance. It's anti-creative, and I hate it.


*Thanks for adding another layer of complexity GW. Just what this game needed...
**That's not a dig at tneva82, BTW. I specifically said used to show off, as over time the terrain in his pics has become more cohesive and more thematic, making for way better pictures (and I have to presume, better games).


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 08:59:29


Post by: alphaecho


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
alphaecho wrote:
I also understand that some gamers may not have much of a terrain bits box to play with.

Is that the boat you're in.....
Nah man. I'm still using shoe boxes and toilet rolls.



I think the last time I checked one of your modelling blogs, you'd spent more on GW terrain than I've spent on their products full stop.

I still have a love for the bunker and walkway templates GW included in WD once.

In fact, I need to eat more breakfast cereal to obtain the raw materials for a project.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 11:18:12


Post by: Platuan4th


BrianDavion wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
macluvin wrote:
So far I’ve liked everything new about the edition, or at least think that generally good changes are coming. The terrain supplements seem like they may polarize the community further, as people that don’t collect (GW) terrain aren’t going to want to Play with those rules. I was about to undertake projects to make my own terrain as I really don’t feel like paying GW prices for terrain, but this sounds like a scheme to break that unwillingness to buy their terrain. I wonder if they would make more money by simply including rules with terrain from the terrain mission supplement... unless buying the book would push people to buy more terrain?


Well this optional supplement is unlikely to replace tournament pack from tournaments. We have specific ruleset for tournaments with missions etc. Unlikely tournaments will replace that with alternative system. Especially one that makes it harder for people to come.


GW I think is trying to appeal to a range of differant people. every edition they release some rules that might be popular but might never catch on.


Yes, but I'm failing to see who this actually appeals to. Tournament gamers aren't going to want this because it's more random added to the game and they try to minimize random. Casual and PUG Matched players aren't going to want this because it's just more to keep track of even with the cards and they just want to play the game. Narrative gamers might want this, but generally any building with special rules is what the scenario is going to be based around so you'll be using one, mayyyybe two per game and at that point, most narrative gamers will just assign rules to it based on what they feel best fits the narrative they're trying to tell, they won't need these cards.

And the "each player provides terrain" thing is still really dumb because it makes for a very unconhesive table AND adds another layer of gameyness where everyone just brings what benefits their list the most.

I say this as exactly the kind of customer GW loves(someone who buys whatever I might possibly someday maybe use just to have access to it), I reeeeaaaaaallly don't see what use this has beyond a money grab.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 13:31:06


Post by: jspyd3rx


These added terrain rules will just overcomplicate the game even more. I seriously doubt anyone will embrace this.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 16:34:42


Post by: H.B.M.C.


A rather thin preview today, but it does highlight a couple of things:



This image is actually inaccurate. There should be a duplicate of each of the smaller ruins you see among the pipes. It's impossible to get the larger ruins at the top of the pic without getting a second set of smaller ruins unless they re-cut the sprue... and why would they do that?



This confirms my theory regarding this kit. It's just the current Sector Imperialis Manufactorum kit with one extra wall sprue and one extra floor sprue.



This is just the buildings from the Command Starter, Command Expansion and the bigger Battlezone.

And finally there's this:



A container and no crane? But wait...



A crane but no container?

I'd love to know what this kit actually comes with. If it's the regular Servo-Haulers kit with one Container sprue, then great, otherwise, this is confusing.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 16:36:42


Post by: Danit


How dare gw add optional rules to the game, even more egregious is the people they send to your home to break your knees if you dont use it.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 16:40:40


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Yeah, 'cause that's the criticism people are making...


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 17:03:48


Post by: Kanluwen


Sector Imperialis gameboard has vanished from the US webstore and is 'Last Chance to Buy' on the UK webstore.

Just a heads up.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 17:08:03


Post by: Dudeface


Not to be "that guy" but the building stuff really isn't related to necrons or space marines codex releases.


Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion @ 2020/09/22 17:09:27


Post by: Kanluwen


Dudeface wrote:
Not to be "that guy" but the building stuff really isn't related to necrons or space marines codex releases.

It does fall under "upcoming releases" however.

Real-talk: this thread got started instead of a generic '40k news thread' like we have for AoS. It is what it is.