Jidmah wrote: A Librarian would point out that GK need ten guys to cast half a smite
I wasn't talking about in-game, i was talking about lore. Lots of things in-game don't match the lore. Every terminator model being in "tactical dreadnought armor" is a good example of that.
"Echoes of Awakening" is evidently the last fluff section in Ritual of the Damned.
I'd be more hyped, expecting something related to the Lion (which is still could be), but the whole event is "Psychic Awakening" so it could also be nothing.
I'm hopeful, I don't think we'll get a miniature for him anytime soon, but if he shows up at the end of the book and does something awesome (like beat up Magnus), I think that would make this a really fun PA. He then disappears we get to wonder what he is up to until a later supplement. It moves the DA story forward and adds some new aspects into the DA story which has gotten a bit stale and predictable.
Or get beaten up by Magnus.
... But Ofc i know you space marines always expect the win as granted, that's how mama GW thought you
So other than that
33 pages DA 10 pages GK 10 pages TS
As expected
sure except examining the DA pages..
of those 33 pages
10 are the phobos stuff,
7 are updated datasheets for old units (stuff like the new hand weapon options for intercessors etc)
1 is the angels of death rule,
1 is the vanguard warlord traits
1 is the Obscuration Librarius Disipline
So once you get that out of the way it's 13 pages of new content, and of those 13 I think some of it is fluff.
I wish I got 7 pages of updated data sheets of old units, how's that's not new content, that literally would be more worth then the pages TS are getting right now
Regardless - there's no need for the "Marines get more/no they don't" argument again - for one it's explicitly banned, for two it's so blindingly obvious it doesn't warrant discussion and for three all of these factions are technically "Marines" anyway
But but but I was told that the new primaris release didn't do anything for SW/BA/DA just like the new Chaos releases didn't do anything at all for TS and DG right? Right?!?!
Sorry about the bitterness but these are still new rules that your getting that nobodies else got, just delayed publication, I'd love to get these 7 pages.
Regardless - there's no need for the "Marines get more/no they don't" argument again - for one it's explicitly banned, for two it's so blindingly obvious it doesn't warrant discussion and for three all of these factions are technically "Marines" anyway
I specificly counted Lazarus as new.
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deTox91 wrote: But but but I was told that the new primaris release didn't do anything for SW/BA/DA just like the new Chaos releases didn't do anything at all for TS and DG right? Right?!?!
whomever told you that was wrong, wasn't anyone here, everyone knew that the phobos stuff was avalaible for EVERYONE as early as shadowspear.
GK Justicar < SM Librarian < GK Librarian < Chief Librarian Tigurius < Grand Master Voldus.
From the fluff I've read, it' something like
GK Justicar < SM Librarian < GK Librarian < whoever the hell are those named guys? Nobody care < < < < ALPHA-LEVEL PSYKERS!!!111
Though the fluff about the alpha psykers has always been shaky. I mean, the idea of (usually not very mentally stable) people that have exterminatus-level powers in their head, but that barely controls them, and that put themselves and their entire world at huge danger just by existing is very suiting to the setting… but then comes the part where you compare them to other “powerful psykers” in the setting, and alpha psykers make them look pitiful, which just doesn't seem right. And upping those other powerful psykers to alpha level doesn't work because then all the fighty non-psyker strong guys (say, the Avatar of Khaine) becomes pitiful in comparison…
GK Justicar < SM Librarian < GK Librarian < Chief Librarian Tigurius < Grand Master Voldus.
From the fluff I've read, it' something like
GK Justicar < SM Librarian < GK Librarian < whoever the hell are those named guys? Nobody care < < < < ALPHA-LEVEL PSYKERS!!!111
Though the fluff about the alpha psykers has always been shaky. I mean, the idea of (usually not very mentally stable) people that have exterminatus-level powers in their head, but that barely controls them, and that put themselves and their entire world at huge danger just by existing is very suiting to the setting… but then comes the part where you compare them to other “powerful psykers” in the setting, and alpha psykers make them look pitiful, which just doesn't seem right. And upping those other powerful psykers to alpha level doesn't work because then all the fighty non-psyker strong guys (say, the Avatar of Khaine) becomes pitiful in comparison…
Seems perfectly fine to me. I always liked how some poor random nobody could be more powerful than the vaunted Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines. Sure they inevitably end up as a fleshy living doorway to hell, but you pays your money you takes your chances.
GK Justicar < SM Librarian < GK Librarian < Chief Librarian Tigurius < Grand Master Voldus.
From the fluff I've read, it' something like
GK Justicar < SM Librarian < GK Librarian < whoever the hell are those named guys? Nobody care < < < < ALPHA-LEVEL PSYKERS!!!111
Though the fluff about the alpha psykers has always been shaky. I mean, the idea of (usually not very mentally stable) people that have exterminatus-level powers in their head, but that barely controls them, and that put themselves and their entire world at huge danger just by existing is very suiting to the setting… but then comes the part where you compare them to other “powerful psykers” in the setting, and alpha psykers make them look pitiful, which just doesn't seem right. And upping those other powerful psykers to alpha level doesn't work because then all the fighty non-psyker strong guys (say, the Avatar of Khaine) becomes pitiful in comparison…
Seems perfectly fine to me. I always liked how some poor random nobody could be more powerful than the vaunted Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines. Sure they inevitably end up as a fleshy living doorway to hell, but you pays your money you takes your chances.
Fleshy Living Doorway to Hell would make a killer band name.
Ultimately an army with 10 new pages of content has a lot going for them.
Seriously? 10 whole pages. No redone Horror rules to make the various versions worthwhile? No Venomcrawler or Master of Possession profiles to add them to 1KSons? I guess that would have taken time away from the frickin' Dark Angels.
Even if it's just what they've previewed GKs are in a massively better place than they were, and any GK players who are complaining obviously haven't been playing too long. We've got spells, stratagems and relic to be announced.
Oh I'm super happy with what we've seen for Thousand Sons! It's already boosts
It's a shame because i'm sure they won't be pushovers in the book, but on the table top Grey Knights are just going to dominate Thousand Sons. Maybe they'll be good limited to a single detachment in a more competitive chaos force, but they deserved better.
Is the general consensus that Dark Angels got the shaft? On one of the click-bait-shall-not-be-named podcasts they were talking about how great this and that was but all i kept thinking was "they ain't no Iron Hands, or Ultramarines for that matter".
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H.B.M.C. wrote: Ultimately an army with 10 new pages of content has a lot going for them.
Seriously? 10 whole pages. No redone Horror rules to make the various versions worthwhile? No Venomcrawler or Master of Possession profiles to add them to 1KSons? I guess that would have taken time away from the frickin' Dark Angels.
To be fair i highly doubt Grey Knights will be getting access to any of the new SM units, and Thousand Sons are supposed to be the "other side of the coin".
Regardless - there's no need for the "Marines get more/no they don't" argument again - for one it's explicitly banned, for two it's so blindingly obvious it doesn't warrant discussion and for three all of these factions are technically "Marines" anyway
You do realize Asmodai is only in there because he now gets access to Litanies, right....like every other Chaplain? It's not like he is getting anything new or an update. Stop being disingenuous.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Ultimately an army with 10 new pages of content has a lot going for them.
Seriously? 10 whole pages. No redone Horror rules to make the various versions worthwhile? No Venomcrawler or Master of Possession profiles to add them to 1KSons? I guess that would have taken time away from the frickin' Dark Angels.
You're overestimating the content, by almost double. Rules content is about 6 pages, same with GK. Opening page is fluff blurb, random name generator is obviously dross.
TS rules are pretty much cults from page 79-83, and Strategems on page 84 and thats it.
GK rules start with the Chaplain reprint on 67 (which will largely be copy pasta) and run to page 72 with the litanies.
DA do have a lot more in theory, but most of it is just reprinting pages from Codex Space Marines again. (And we'll see it all yet again for Wolfy Wolves, and probably a fair bit for the Watchy Watch)
Abilities on page 34 is relevant. Master Lazarus on 36 is new, Asmodai is presumbly an update (41). Strats from 51-53 are new. Death and Raven warlord traits are ew (56), Relics and maybe special issue wargear (57-58). So 9 pages all told
Everything else is literally copypasta with some minor name changes, straight out of Codex: SM
This is $40 book of 86 pages with 24 pages of actual content (including the 3 missions), unless you really really like a handful of 2 page fluff vignettes
PA is probably the worst gak GW has ever produced. Eye of Terror was 17 years ago, and did a much better job at a campaign arc with useful content.
deTox91 wrote: But but but I was told that the new primaris release didn't do anything for SW/BA/DA just like the new Chaos releases didn't do anything at all for TS and DG right? Right?!?!
Sorry about the bitterness but these are still new rules that your getting that nobodies else got, just delayed publication, I'd love to get these 7 pages.
So you would be happy to get copy&paste of old rules you already had? As that's what those are. Hey here's idea. Photocopy 7 pages of datasheet from your codex and put those into pa. Hey presto same level of content.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Ultimately an army with 10 new pages of content has a lot going for them.
Seriously? 10 whole pages. No redone Horror rules to make the various versions worthwhile? No Venomcrawler or Master of Possession profiles to add them to 1KSons? I guess that would have taken time away from the frickin' Dark Angels.
VC and MoP dont belong anywhere near TS I'm afraid. If the fluff would warrant them getting the models they would have.
I'm really confused by the point values page given CA was just out...wtf takes precedent?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Ultimately an army with 10 new pages of content has a lot going for them.
Seriously? 10 whole pages. No redone Horror rules to make the various versions worthwhile? No Venomcrawler or Master of Possession profiles to add them to 1KSons? I guess that would have taken time away from the frickin' Dark Angels.
VC and MoP dont belong anywhere near TS I'm afraid. If the fluff would warrant them getting the models they would have.
yeah, I don't get why anyone would say they make sense for the 1K sons, the 1K sons aren't exactly known for deamon posession..
Daedalus81 wrote: VC and MoP dont belong anywhere near TS I'm afraid. If the fluff would warrant them getting the models they would have.
MoP is arguable, but I guess the real reason they're not part of 1KSons is that there's a Master of Possession miniature and no Thousand Sons Master of Possession miniature. Same reason the Death Guard Codex has a "Chaos Lord" who gets none of the Death Guard special rules because there's no Death Guard Chaos Lord miniature, only a Chaos Lord miniature.
But why not the Venom Crawler? 1KSons have Forgefiends. They have Defilers. They have Heldrakes. They have Maulerfiends. What's so special about the Venom Crawler?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Ultimately an army with 10 new pages of content has a lot going for them.
Seriously? 10 whole pages. No redone Horror rules to make the various versions worthwhile? No Venomcrawler or Master of Possession profiles to add them to 1KSons? I guess that would have taken time away from the frickin' Dark Angels.
VC and MoP dont belong anywhere near TS I'm afraid. If the fluff would warrant them getting the models they would have.
yeah, I don't get why anyone would say they make sense for the 1K sons, the 1K sons aren't exactly known for deamon posession..
Then DG surely get access to them, as they are experts at daemon possession, right?
Daedalus81 wrote: VC and MoP dont belong anywhere near TS I'm afraid. If the fluff would warrant them getting the models they would have.
MoP is arguable, but I guess the real reason they're not part of 1KSons is that there's a Master of Possession miniature and no Thousand Sons Master of Possession miniature. Same reason the Death Guard Codex has a "Chaos Lord" who gets none of the Death Guard special rules because there's no Death Guard Chaos Lord miniature, only a Chaos Lord miniature.
But why not the Venom Crawler? 1KSons have Forgefiends. They have Defilers. They have Heldrakes. They have Maulerfiends. What's so special about the Venom Crawler?
Venomcrawler are directly linked to MoP tho, fluff and rule wise.
I for one am glad this PA will soon be over so we can look to the future.
The Greater Good and (obviously) Saga of the Beast seem much more interesting to me. Can't wait to start hearing more details on them. At the moment I'm really interested to see what the Greater Good brings - particularly in terms of lore and plot. While Ritual of the Damned feels like a Saturday morning cartoon in terms of plot and themes, Greater Good already feels much more adult and intelligent.
Having none-SM perspectives (particularly Tau, IG and GSC aka human-ish in size and thoughts) vs SM/CSM should be done more often - GW can really labour about how truly terrifying I'd be to face these massive dudes in power armour that fire exploding bullets. Its also a smart way to introduce 'new' perspectives on existing factions.
Crikey that doesn't leave much in the way of relics, WL traits etc
A "cult" is merely 1 wl trait, one relic and one spell.
Basically us TS got the normal amount of content, split into 9.
GW seems to be doing that with armies that have some mild divisions but not eneugh to warrent entire special rules the new DAWL traits are 3 Raven Wing and 3 death wing, wou;dn't suprise me if the new relics likewise where themed around the wings
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: Seems perfectly fine to me. I always liked how some poor random nobody could be more powerful than the vaunted Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines. Sure they inevitably end up as a fleshy living doorway to hell, but you pays your money you takes your chances.
Chief librarian of the Ultramarine, sure. That's just one of the few guy that get recruited by that specific chapter, there is no reason for him to be one of the most powerful psyker, quite the opposite.
But them being more powerful than the most powerful psykers of the eldars? And more powerful than the most powerful incarnation of the literal god of magic? That's weird.
Daedalus81 wrote: VC and MoP dont belong anywhere near TS I'm afraid. If the fluff would warrant them getting the models they would have.
MoP is arguable, but I guess the real reason they're not part of 1KSons is that there's a Master of Possession miniature and no Thousand Sons Master of Possession miniature. Same reason the Death Guard Codex has a "Chaos Lord" who gets none of the Death Guard special rules because there's no Death Guard Chaos Lord miniature, only a Chaos Lord miniature.
But why not the Venom Crawler? 1KSons have Forgefiends. They have Defilers. They have Heldrakes. They have Maulerfiends. What's so special about the Venom Crawler?
Unfathomable GW logic that leaves us all with less ways to enjoy our hobby
Crikey that doesn't leave much in the way of relics, WL traits etc
A "cult" is merely 1 wl trait, one relic and one spell.
Basically us TS got the normal amount of content, split into 9.
So wait, do TS get 9 WL traits, 9 relics and 9 new spells or 3 WL traits, 3 relics 3 new spells? E - if its the former they seem to have done pretty well out of PA.
Should be the former but the cults are detachment locked it seems so it really punishes people who went for brigades since then you can only really choose one.
Edit: Of course it's all welcome new stuff but obviously few things compare to the passive buffs the other two armies in the book get "for free"
Daedalus81 wrote: VC and MoP dont belong anywhere near TS I'm afraid. If the fluff would warrant them getting the models they would have.
MoP is arguable, but I guess the real reason they're not part of 1KSons is that there's a Master of Possession miniature and no Thousand Sons Master of Possession miniature. Same reason the Death Guard Codex has a "Chaos Lord" who gets none of the Death Guard special rules because there's no Death Guard Chaos Lord miniature, only a Chaos Lord miniature.
But why not the Venom Crawler? 1KSons have Forgefiends. They have Defilers. They have Heldrakes. They have Maulerfiends. What's so special about the Venom Crawler?
Venomcrawler is only available from the CSM Star Collecting! box which is branded for a different codex and contains a bunch of models TS can't use. Maybe if it ever gets a separate release and they run another series of campaign books they'll reprint the Venomcrawler datasheet over and over again in every damn book so DG and TS can get it.
The Greater Good and (obviously) Saga of the Beast seem much more interesting to me. Can't wait to start hearing more details on them. At the moment I'm really interested to see what the Greater Good brings - particularly in terms of lore and plot. While Ritual of the Damned feels like a Saturday morning cartoon in terms of plot and themes, Greater Good already feels much more adult and intelligent.
Having none-SM perspectives (particularly Tau, IG and GSC aka human-ish in size and thoughts) vs SM/CSM should be done more often - GW can really labour about how truly terrifying I'd be to face these massive dudes in power armour that fire exploding bullets. Its also a smart way to introduce 'new' perspectives on existing factions.
Agreed, IF it pans out along the lines of the story it could be really interesting rather than just another Marine supplement pretending to be a camapign cloged with repeat printing of rules already in the codex - Guess we get that in the SW "Campaign" book a well.
ON the other hand no models for GSC Tau or even Nurgalised Tau means limited game elements.
I'm curious to see where Chaos Daemons are going to fit in book-wise, seeing as they won't make too much sense in either of the remaining ones. I was expecting one book to be Daemons vs. GK, but that obviously didn't happen.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: I'm curious to see where Chaos Daemons are going to fit in book-wise, seeing as they won't make too much sense in either of the remaining ones. I was expecting one book to be Daemons vs. GK, but that obviously didn't happen.
I wonder if Saga of the Beast could include Daemons? SW will get their suppplement and if Orks get the standard xenos amount of content the book will probably seem pretty light without a third player.
I would love PA: The Great Game or something like that with just Daemons, but as GW counts them as 1 faction that's not likely. GW could easily fill lots of rule pages if they intend to bring Daemons to the rules variety the other armies have these days.
Masters of the Warp confirmed to the buff for battle forged Grey Knight force
Stratagems 2CP - Masters of Combat 2. Dead Paladins attack back
1CP - Overwhelming Assault 1 CP Dreadknight gains +1 attack, rerolling wound and damage rolls of 1
2CP - Bring Down The Beast reroll wounds agasint a vehicle or monster during the shooting phase
1CP - Fight On The Move Interceptors can shoot or charge if they fell back
1/2CP - Redoubtable Defense Termintor units only. 1 CP for 5 models 2 for 10. Ranged attacks are -1 damage
1CP - Untainted Purifiers get 4+ invul
1CP Senses 1 CP Purges overwatch on 4s
Psyker spells
Dominus only for characters only, cant mix
Armored Resiliance - WC 6 Infantry are -1 to wound
Ethereal Manipulation - WC 7 Reroll hit rolls for ranged weapons at half distance
Edict - WC7 Shoot and then move during the psyker phase, that unit can not shoot advance or move that turn
Relics Shard - Reroll results of psyker tests and add 1 to the result
Scrolls - Nemesis weapons gain exploding 6s (my GMDK has a relic)
Litanies Faith - 6" bubble 5+ FnP for mortal wounds
Ward - Unit rerolls damage rolls for a random damage weapon
Guidance - Unit ignores hit and ballistic skill modifiers
Focus - Unit gains -1 AP to any nemesis or psy weapon
Cinderspirit wrote: I would love PA: The Great Game or something like that with just Daemons, but as GW counts them as 1 faction that's not likely. GW could easily fill lots of rule pages if they intend to bring Daemons to the rules variety the other armies have these days.
Dude that's just a supplement book. Not gonna happen and shouldn't happen in a campaign where every other factions has 'shared' a book
Cinderspirit wrote: I would love PA: The Great Game or something like that with just Daemons, but as GW counts them as 1 faction that's not likely. GW could easily fill lots of rule pages if they intend to bring Daemons to the rules variety the other armies have these days.
The war between the Orks and Woofs causes so much death that it splits reality, inviting Chaos into the mix?
Ok so after seeing the Thousand Sons review I can see that it will be pretty much the same Supreme Command with the cult of magic, you can have Ahriman with +1 to cast, a DPoT with High Magister for another +1 and another DPoT with the cult of magic trait for +1 to all the mortal wounds he does and the new relic that gives +1 to cast.
As far as I can think this is the only things that can be seen competitively for TS?
Other that that cult of duplicity is strong as moving staff around if kind of fun and strong at the same time, all the other cults are a bit MEH, wouldn't bother if not for fun narrative games, specially disappointed by cult of Time, the spellsounded so good, but relic and trait are not great.
Pretty sad that Ahriman and Magnus don't get anything at all, I guess Magnus can heal himself D3 a turn for 1 CP, I quite like the idea of a Cult of Duplicity SoT bomb as for 1CP you can give them +1 invul and teleporta them in position with the spell and hope to double tap turn two.
Overall not ideal, but there is some goodness, guess I need to embrace the Soup nature of Chaos and get over the fact that pure TS will never be very good
deTox91 wrote: Overall not ideal, but there is some goodness, guess I need to embrace the Soup nature of Chaos and get over the fact that pure TS will never be very good
deTox91 wrote: Ok so after seeing the Thousand Sons review I can see that it will be pretty much the same Supreme Command with the cult of magic, you can have Ahriman with +1 to cast, a DPoT with High Magister for another +1 and another DPoT with the cult of magic trait for +1 to all the mortal wounds he does and the new relic that gives +1 to cast.
As far as I can think this is the only things that can be seen competitively for TS?
Other that that cult of duplicity is strong as moving staff around if kind of fun and strong at the same time, all the other cults are a bit MEH, wouldn't bother if not for fun narrative games, specially disappointed by cult of Time, the spellsounded so good, but relic and trait are not great.
Pretty sad that Ahriman and Magnus don't get anything at all, I guess Magnus can heal himself D3 a turn for 1 CP, I quite like the idea of a Cult of Duplicity SoT bomb as for 1CP you can give them +1 invul and teleporta them in position with the spell and hope to double tap turn two.
Overall not ideal, but there is some goodness, guess I need to embrace the Soup nature of Chaos and get over the fact that pure TS will never be very good
Pretty much agree, except on cult of time.
The fact EVERY psyker get the spell as an extra spell means quite a bit more for time than it does for others, and I find the relic to be amazing. rezzing after the phase ends, and without needing to roll, already has precedent that we know its causing problems for armies focused on one phase-and it usually not something as big and dangerous as a prince can get his hands on.
The trait is also decent. after casting the two spells you care about, you occasionally get to throw a third spell. it's not that bad.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The war between the Orks and Woofs causes so much death that it splits reality, inviting Chaos into the mix?
kind of- see, my hope with Saga of the beast would be Khorne demons popping up on Armageddon during the return of Ghazgul, with space wolves there to fight them back off. it references all 3 wars of armageddon by who shows up, and there was already an attempted manfiesation of Angron
there last i checked, so.... is it so hard to set it all up again? maybe not.
if they are truly gonna have GSC tau and DG in the next book, then i don't see this being so far off. heck, other chaos might show up just to not give khorne peace on this one.
BoomWolf wrote: I doubt chaos daemons are going to be split up.
None of the gods have enough unit choices available to hold up an 8-page section on his own.
And besides, we have 3 more books to run after saga of the beast, with only renegade knights and daemons left on the chaos side of the equation.
Xenos are left with clowns and necrons
IoM though, still have custards, imperial guard, deathwatch, inquisition, admech and imp knights.
The third faction in saga of the beast is 99% going to be an imperial one, I'd guess deathwatch.
With the new flyer previewed so long ago, I still think AdMech will show up in PA5 or PA6. I expect we'll find out at LVO next week.
Also don't forget they explicitly said Sisters would be getting new rules in this series too.
Daedalus81 wrote: VC and MoP dont belong anywhere near TS I'm afraid. If the fluff would warrant them getting the models they would have.
MoP is arguable, but I guess the real reason they're not part of 1KSons is that there's a Master of Possession miniature and no Thousand Sons Master of Possession miniature. Same reason the Death Guard Codex has a "Chaos Lord" who gets none of the Death Guard special rules because there's no Death Guard Chaos Lord miniature, only a Chaos Lord miniature.
But why not the Venom Crawler? 1KSons have Forgefiends. They have Defilers. They have Heldrakes. They have Maulerfiends. What's so special about the Venom Crawler?
Unfathomable GW logic that leaves us all with less ways to enjoy our hobby
No. The stuff that makes the VC more viable, like the GP, would also not port leaving us half baked.
BoomWolf wrote: I doubt chaos daemons are going to be split up.
None of the gods have enough unit choices available to hold up an 8-page section on his own.
And besides, we have 3 more books to run after saga of the beast, with only renegade knights and daemons left on the chaos side of the equation.
Xenos are left with clowns and necrons
IoM though, still have custards, imperial guard, deathwatch, inquisition, admech and imp knights.
The third faction in saga of the beast is 99% going to be an imperial one, I'd guess deathwatch.
With the new flyer previewed so long ago, I still think AdMech will show up in PA5 or PA6. I expect we'll find out at LVO next week.
Also don't forget they explicitly said Sisters would be getting new rules in this series too.
Wait? they did?
Yea, the third Saga of the Beast HAVE to be imps then, otherwise you'll have 7 imps left XD
Well, having 2 imps in each book won't be too much of a problem, as there are no more marines that take tons of real estate.
Unless...deathwatch getting the phobos treatment as well? if so they won't be in saga.
That we can D3 rez, heal next psychic, and possibly CP heal for an average of 6 is just effin great. Eat gak snipers.
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deTox91 wrote: Ok so after seeing the Thousand Sons review I can see that it will be pretty much the same Supreme Command with the cult of magic, you can have Ahriman with +1 to cast, a DPoT with High Magister for another +1 and another DPoT with the cult of magic trait for +1 to all the mortal wounds he does and the new relic that gives +1 to cast.
As far as I can think this is the only things that can be seen competitively for TS?
Other that that cult of duplicity is strong as moving staff around if kind of fun and strong at the same time, all the other cults are a bit MEH, wouldn't bother if not for fun narrative games, specially disappointed by cult of Time, the spellsounded so good, but relic and trait are not great.
Pretty sad that Ahriman and Magnus don't get anything at all, I guess Magnus can heal himself D3 a turn for 1 CP, I quite like the idea of a Cult of Duplicity SoT bomb as for 1CP you can give them +1 invul and teleporta them in position with the spell and hope to double tap turn two.
Overall not ideal, but there is some goodness, guess I need to embrace the Soup nature of Chaos and get over the fact that pure TS will never be very good
Dont agree on SupCom. There's a lot to be had for SoT and Rubrics including a 3++.
(Not that it launches them to top tables, but that TS will see good success with these tools)
That we can D3 rez, heal next psychic, and possibly CP heal for an average of 6 is just effin great. Eat gak snipers.
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deTox91 wrote: Ok so after seeing the Thousand Sons review I can see that it will be pretty much the same Supreme Command with the cult of magic, you can have Ahriman with +1 to cast, a DPoT with High Magister for another +1 and another DPoT with the cult of magic trait for +1 to all the mortal wounds he does and the new relic that gives +1 to cast.
As far as I can think this is the only things that can be seen competitively for TS?
Other that that cult of duplicity is strong as moving staff around if kind of fun and strong at the same time, all the other cults are a bit MEH, wouldn't bother if not for fun narrative games, specially disappointed by cult of Time, the spellsounded so good, but relic and trait are not great.
Pretty sad that Ahriman and Magnus don't get anything at all, I guess Magnus can heal himself D3 a turn for 1 CP, I quite like the idea of a Cult of Duplicity SoT bomb as for 1CP you can give them +1 invul and teleporta them in position with the spell and hope to double tap turn two.
Overall not ideal, but there is some goodness, guess I need to embrace the Soup nature of Chaos and get over the fact that pure TS will never be very good
Dont agree on SupCom. There's a lot to be had for SoT and Rubrics including a 3++.
(Not that it launches them to top tables, but that TS will see good success with these tools)
That's for sure, I'm definitely trying some SoT shenanigans, not sure if 2 5 man units or 1 10 man, but aside from that I believe Rubrics might still be better as MSU even with the new strats, with Cult of Duplicity they'll do a good objective game.
That said if we're talking competitive play I'm not sure if they'll make the cut, everything they got is locked behind CP, they still don't benefit of a "Chapter trait" at all and they are still price when you run out of CP, ofcTS fans/players will use them and they have potential, but can't think that a TS battaglion will suddenly start appearing in tournaments instead of say daemons
While for the SupCom, you sure? I believe it definitely got stronger with the Cult of magic, so for whoever was already playing it in competitive lists now its even more of an auto include, can swap around prince's with with sorcerers and Termy sorelcerers if necessary to pay less for it.
BoomWolf wrote: I doubt chaos daemons are going to be split up.
None of the gods have enough unit choices available to hold up an 8-page section on his own.
And besides, we have 3 more books to run after saga of the beast, with only renegade knights and daemons left on the chaos side of the equation.
Xenos are left with clowns and necrons
IoM though, still have custards, imperial guard, deathwatch, inquisition, admech and imp knights.
The third faction in saga of the beast is 99% going to be an imperial one, I'd guess deathwatch.
Any faction can be expanded into Factions by new units, models and rules if GW choose to do so, the oh so numerous Marine sub-factions show this.
There is no certanty about what exactly constistues getting something from PA (unless you are Marine player obviously) - it might be the fiction, artwork, a sign on the map.
Cinderspirit wrote: I would love PA: The Great Game or something like that with just Daemons, but as GW counts them as 1 faction that's not likely. GW could easily fill lots of rule pages if they intend to bring Daemons to the rules variety the other armies have these days.
Dude that's just a supplement book. Not gonna happen and shouldn't happen in a campaign where every other factions has 'shared' a book
A rumoured image doing the rounds showed the last PA book to feature Daemons, Custodes and Harlequins. No idea on validity.
Yup. its most likely a total guess someone made-but its a reasonable guess.
Daemons ARE going to be against either custards or Inquisition, possibly both.
Clowns ARE going to be against either daemons or (far less likely) necrons, but necrons are pretty much assured to be against Admech (and possibly imp knights too)
That'd be a pretty cool idea. Maybe bite the bullet and make the Sisters of Silence part of the Custodes list at the same time.
As for this new one, I watched Winters' videos. Nearly fell asleep with the Dark Angel one. The Tide that makes you always be in cover is a nice one for GKs. I really like how the power from the 1KSons Cults are automatic - you just have them - making this new 9 choices thing a bit less pointless. That's good design, for a change.
They're not all useful, but the moving units one and healing units one could be good (if you take a lot of Scarab Termies that latter one could be amazing).
That's for sure, I'm definitely trying some SoT shenanigans, not sure if 2 5 man units or 1 10 man, but aside from that I believe Rubrics might still be better as MSU even with the new strats, with Cult of Duplicity they'll do a good objective game.
That said if we're talking competitive play I'm not sure if they'll make the cut, everything they got is locked behind CP, they still don't benefit of a "Chapter trait" at all and they are still price when you run out of CP, ofcTS fans/players will use them and they have potential, but can't think that a TS battaglion will suddenly start appearing in tournaments instead of say daemons
While for the SupCom, you sure? I believe it definitely got stronger with the Cult of magic, so for whoever was already playing it in competitive lists now its even more of an auto include, can swap around prince's with with sorcerers and Termy sorelcerers if necessary to pay less for it.
- Red Corsairs Bat w/ warmachines to benefit from the reroll relic (if it stays after FAQ)
- TS bat with the relic
- TS vanguard with SoT
A rumoured image doing the rounds showed the last PA book to feature Daemons, Custodes and Harlequins. No idea on validity.
Where was that posted?
Not saying its going to happen, but if I was a GW writer building up to a major event like Terra getting attacked and/or Emps dying/waking up; then I'd probably start it with a year long build up campaign and finish with that.
Ill have to watch the whole vid later for the stuff not ckvered in that text article, but generally this stuff looks fine. A big, needed buff for GK, a buff albeit a full one for DA, and tsons stay relatively flat with two good strats for rubrics.
Doubt we will see them much in competitive play but I dont play competitive.
A rumoured image doing the rounds showed the last PA book to feature Daemons, Custodes and Harlequins. No idea on validity.
This would especially make some sense if they go with a plot somehow involving the broken portions of the webway connected to the throneroom on Terra.
The way PA is going, it will be a fight over Randomworld [Maiden world?] where the Harlies lured a Custodes detachment to fight them daemons for them, with no larger implications for anyone.
Gonna guess the Imperium narrowly beat the Thousand Sons, but it turns out Magnus was only pretending to be stupid and it was planned all along, though we'll never find out why.
BoomWolf wrote: Just noticed something that pisses me off in this book.
TS gets a relic that give +1 to casting.
GK gets a relic that gives +1 to casting AND rerolls.
Like, wtf? people getting strictly better versions of what we get IN THE SAME BOOK?!
So what? At least it's two different armies. Lol
Orks had a WL-trait for +1 Attack and a different WL-trait for +1 Attack AND +1 Strength
At least with different armies, people can pretend it follows some weird logic, like White Scars getting Space Wolves Outflank, except better. Or Grey Knights getting the GSC 3" deepstrike, but at half the CP cost, etc.. , etc.., etc..
Wow. $40 USD for a monopose primaris model with a few head and weapon options. I was planning on getting one for conversions but not at that price. Maybe I'll be able to trade for it in a few years.
BoomWolf wrote: Just noticed something that pisses me off in this book.
TS gets a relic that give +1 to casting.
GK gets a relic that gives +1 to casting AND rerolls.
Like, wtf? people getting strictly better versions of what we get IN THE SAME BOOK?!
Welcome to the Imperium friend, look at all these things Chaos and Xenos have or do, pick one and we'll make it better just for you!
Also just i just read that lore wise the Space Marine ofc win, apparently an orbital bombardment by the Grey Knights that was soooooo faaaaast that Magnus couldn't stop it and that kill every TS sorcerer on the planet, what a surprise.
Just as I though from the beginning, TS were only there to make more Space Marine look cool. This NPC gak is getting dull.
Wow. $40 USD for a monopose primaris model with a few head and weapon options. I was planning on getting one for conversions but not at that price. Maybe I'll be able to trade for it in a few years.
It is a kit that build two different units : a generic master with bolt carbine and gauntlet and Lazarus. It doesn't justify the price tho.
Wow. $40 USD for a monopose primaris model with a few head and weapon options. I was planning on getting one for conversions but not at that price. Maybe I'll be able to trade for it in a few years.
that's been the price of primaris characters since we started getting primaris special characters.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: I'm curious to see where Chaos Daemons are going to fit in book-wise, seeing as they won't make too much sense in either of the remaining ones. I was expecting one book to be Daemons vs. GK, but that obviously didn't happen.
Yeah I’d just imagine they’ll be in book 7+ somewhere.
Wow. $40 USD for a monopose primaris model with a few head and weapon options. I was planning on getting one for conversions but not at that price. Maybe I'll be able to trade for it in a few years.
It'll probably show up in a DA Start Collecting box sooner or later. That's the main reason I'm not getting one.
Wow. $40 USD for a monopose primaris model with a few head and weapon options. I was planning on getting one for conversions but not at that price. Maybe I'll be able to trade for it in a few years.
It'll probably show up in a DA Start Collecting box sooner or later. That's the main reason I'm not getting one.
Aren't they more likely to toss in the Dark Angel Lieutenant? Zahariel or whatever generic name he got.
BoomWolf wrote: Just noticed something that pisses me off in this book.
TS gets a relic that give +1 to casting.
GK gets a relic that gives +1 to casting AND rerolls.
Like, wtf? people getting strictly better versions of what we get IN THE SAME BOOK?!
Thing is that TS now have a few things that key off a 9 to cast. Giving them that relic would have probably been obscene.
Don't they have a Stratagem and Warlord trait that increases casting by +1 as well? Do GK have that?
GK have +1 as an army-wide ability (not the tides, it's their basic) and a relic that both gives +1 and gives rerolls.
Don't know about a warlord trait, but its hardly needed at this point.
GK have +1 as an army-wide ability (not the tides, it's their basic) and a relic that both gives +1 and gives rerolls.
Don't know about a warlord trait, but its hardly needed at this point.
GK can get to +3 with two relics (once per turn), but that's a lot of points. (+4 with that stratagem)
Also, I think a reroll and a +1 is a little redundant. More than likely it will just increase the difficulty of getting something dispelled rather than reducing their success at casting.
It should be noted that all the old GKWL traits were not useful to casting at all. The same for their relics. So much like TS missing aid for Rubrics and SoT the GK got aid for their casting.
Wow, cult of magic is bonkers with the current supreme command detachment. Cult of Magic DP with the new trait can have Warptime, Infernal Gateway and the new power and can fly up to a unit and unload 2+2D3 mortal wounds to the closes unit and 3+D3 mortal wounds to all units within 3" of them.
I will definitely be running cult of magic supreme command+something else with my battalion, but there are several good options for that something else. I habe a feeling vs shooty opponents I'll go Cult of Time, psycher heavy Duplicity for the Crest and melee heavy Mutation for twist reality.
All in all Rubrics and Scarabs get a good boost with the stratagems and sorcerors feel like they have distinguishing features and options.
Id have zero complaints at all if it didnt feel like all loyalist marines were grtting giant stupid power boosts vs everybody else in the game, making them comically outperform even identical CSM stuff. Were everybody getting small boosts or side grades id be so pleased with all of this
Daedalus81 wrote: It should be noted that all the old GKWL traits were not useful to casting at all. The same for their relics. So much like TS missing aid for Rubrics and SoT the GK got aid for their casting.
I'm also not seeing new traits for GK?
No new WL traits, that was the only real disappointment for me. However, given how powerful the new spells are Loremaster is quite good on say a Chaplain.
Wow. $40 USD for a monopose primaris model with a few head and weapon options. I was planning on getting one for conversions but not at that price. Maybe I'll be able to trade for it in a few years.
that's been the price of primaris characters since we started getting primaris special characters.
I've bought a grand total of one primaris character sold separately (as opposed to the starter set ones parted out on ebay) and it was a special event mini so I apparently incorrectly assumed the upcharge was for that. Primaris Lt's are typically $30 and captains $35. I wasn't aware that the special character tax was $5 on top of that too.
Daedalus81 wrote: It should be noted that all the old GKWL traits were not useful to casting at all. The same for their relics. So much like TS missing aid for Rubrics and SoT the GK got aid for their casting.
I'm also not seeing new traits for GK?
No new WL traits, that was the only real disappointment for me. However, given how powerful the new spells are Loremaster is quite good on say a Chaplain.
Yea a chaplain with litanies AND a spell? Yes, please.
Daedalus81 wrote: It should be noted that all the old GKWL traits were not useful to casting at all. The same for their relics. So much like TS missing aid for Rubrics and SoT the GK got aid for their casting.
I'm also not seeing new traits for GK?
No new WL traits, that was the only real disappointment for me. However, given how powerful the new spells are Loremaster is quite good on say a Chaplain.
Yea a chaplain with litanies AND a spell? Yes, please.
The ultimate buff bot, give him the new relic and you more or less guarantee 4-5 CP over the game. No need for that second battalion.
the_scotsman wrote: For the remainder of the edition itll be the same somg and dance as 7th:
"This is good and fun but cant compete with scatterbikes and free razorback spam"
"Nothing should compete with that, those things should be nerfed."
*neither gets nerfed until a new edition blows up all the rules in the game*
SM won't get nerfed. GW has too much riding on the success of the Primaris Space Marine product line to jeopardize it for something as trivial as game balance.
the_scotsman wrote: For the remainder of the edition itll be the same somg and dance as 7th:
"This is good and fun but cant compete with scatterbikes and free razorback spam"
"Nothing should compete with that, those things should be nerfed."
*neither gets nerfed until a new edition blows up all the rules in the game*
SM won't get nerfed. GW has too much riding on the success of the Primaris Space Marine product line to jeopardize it for something as trivial as game balance.
can we please stop derailing this thread with space marine complaints?
the_scotsman wrote: For the remainder of the edition itll be the same somg and dance as 7th:
"This is good and fun but cant compete with scatterbikes and free razorback spam"
"Nothing should compete with that, those things should be nerfed."
*neither gets nerfed until a new edition blows up all the rules in the game*
SM won't get nerfed. GW has too much riding on the success of the Primaris Space Marine product line to jeopardize it for something as trivial as game balance.
can we please stop derailing this thread with space marine complaints?
Yes, lets. For what feels like the hundredth time.
Mods - can you explain exactly what you consider off topic for this thread please?
Surely a poster exclaiming; 'I'm really happy with what my faction got' is no more on topic than; 'I'm not happy my faction got less than x faction'?
Is this some weird positive perception thing?
I made this thread and the intention was to speculate and share news for all things PA. If people are speculating that the next PA will have more rules for one faction than another, I'm really struggling to see how that can be considered off topic?
An Actual Englishman wrote: Mods - can you explain exactly what you consider off topic for this thread please?
Surely a poster exclaiming; 'I'm really happy with what my faction got' is no more on topic than; 'I'm not happy my faction got less than x faction'?
Is this some weird positive perception thing?
I made this thread and the intention was to speculate and share news for all things PA. If people are speculating that the next PA will have more rules for one faction than another, I'm really struggling to see how that can be considered off topic?
Hi AAE,
First can I ask that anyone who makes a note in a thread asking for moderator input please also yellow triangle their message, that way we are guaranteed to actually see it whereas if you do not do so then it just chance if one of us does.
As to your question, as you know from following this thread yourself there is a constant issue with it devolving into a back and forth argument about SM getting too many releases, why they get so many releases and GWs whole business model. As a one off in any thread that would not be an issue, however it has happened frequently here and every single time it gets more impolite and hostile. I think currently this thread generates more user alerts and moderator action than any other and the vast majority of it is from this back and forth argument. Whilst it is relevant that SM (or sub species of) gets a release and some people are happy about it and others are not, a N&R thread is not the place for a circular argument about its value. People come to these threads to read News and Rumours, not to read person A call person X a donkey cave because he thought that the Marines get special attention, or that person C whishes that person F would die in a hole because their faction got a newer release by a decade. This keeps on happening, it hasn't been once or twice and it is tiresome, not only for myself and the other moderators but also for everyone who wants to read News and Rumours.
Are we trying to enforce a relentless wave of positivity? No. That would be as tiresome, or more so, than relentless negativity. Are we trying to enforce this thread not rehashing the same tired argument again every 10 pages? Yes. If one really must have their say about how burdensome it is to have another Sm release, or yet another Primaris Lt. stood in a slightly different pose, then there is a thread for that kind of thing in discussions. The same goes for people complaining about the people complaining, it isnt N&R, it isnt needed, its off topic and frankly really boring by now. As always if you see a post that breaks the rules then hit the yellow triangle of friendship and let us know but do not engage in the off topic.
First can I ask that anyone who makes a note in a thread asking for moderator input please also yellow triangle their message, that way we are guaranteed to actually see it whereas if you do not do so then it just chance if one of us does.
As to your question, as you know from following this thread yourself there is a constant issue with it devolving into a back and forth argument about SM getting too many releases, why they get so many releases and GWs whole business model. As a one off in any thread that would not be an issue, however it has happened frequently here and every single time it gets more impolite and hostile. I think currently this thread generates more user alerts and moderator action than any other and the vast majority of it is from this back and forth argument. Whilst it is relevant that SM (or sub species of) gets a release and some people are happy about it and others are not, a N&R thread is not the place for a circular argument about its value. People come to these threads to read News and Rumours, not to read person A call person X a donkey cave because he thought that the Marines get special attention, or that person C whishes that person F would die in a hole because their faction got a newer release by a decade. This keeps on happening, it hasn't been once or twice and it is tiresome, not only for myself and the other moderators but also for everyone who wants to read News and Rumours.
Are we trying to enforce a relentless wave of positivity? No. That would be as tiresome, or more so, than relentless negativity. Are we trying to enforce this thread not rehashing the same tired argument again every 10 pages? Yes. If one really must have their say about how burdensome it is to have another Sm release, or yet another Primaris Lt. stood in a slightly different pose, then there is a thread for that kind of thing in discussions. The same goes for people complaining about the people complaining, it isnt N&R, it isnt needed, its off topic and frankly really boring by now. As always if you see a post that breaks the rules then hit the yellow triangle of friendship and let us know but do not engage in the off topic.
Perfect, thank you for the response.
We have out answer and can cite this if the topic continues to go off topic.
Apologies for not reporting my own post, I didn't realise that would get your attention quicker - I'll use this in future for any queries.
Thanks again.
E - on topic - what do people think we're going to see for DG and Tau then?
Do DG have similar Cults to TS? Are there different Vectors or something from the Heresy?
What will Tau see - an expansion of their Mont'ka and Kau'yon abilities? Perhaps the ability to create an army with this theme?
E - on topic - what do people think we're going to see for DG and Tau then?
Do DG have similar Cults to TS? Are there different Vectors or something from the Heresy?
Detachment-level rules for 7 Vectors of DG is probably a good bet.
EDIT: the codex names 7 plague companies and 14 'vectoriums', so maybe it'll be the former.
I'm still wondering if that Shadowsun picture is a red herring and GSC won't appear in PA5, but rather AdMech will be the 3rd faction. That would neatly tie up three things; their upcoming model release, explain who helped repel the DG fleet, and means one less Imperial faction to cover later.
Then we can have a GSC vs Deathwatch rematch in a later book.
Do DG have similar Cults to TS? Are there different Vectors or something from the Heresy?
DG are organized into seven Plague Fleets, with each having signature diseases they spread and being weighted more towards certain aspects of DG like sorcerers, daemon engines or poxwalkers. It's not a huge theme in the army though, so I hope they get something more creative than that.
DG currently are mostly lacking in the stratagem department, they have the least stratagems of any codex right after assassins. New warlord traits would also be nice, as all but Arch Contaminator are irrelevant.
xttz wrote: EDIT: the codex names 7 plague companies and 14 'vectoriums', so maybe it'll be the former.
I'm still wondering if that Shadowsun picture is a red herring and GSC won't appear in PA5, but rather AdMech will be the 3rd faction. That would neatly tie up three things; their upcoming model release, explain who helped repel the DG fleet, and means one less Imperial faction to cover later.
Then we can have a GSC vs Deathwatch rematch in a later book.
Yea agreed on all points - I think 14 would be a bit much so the Plague Companies are probably more likely.
I wouldn't be surprised if GSC were not in PA5, though it'd be a nice link in terms of themes if they were included IMO.
Jidmah wrote: DG are organized into seven Plague Fleets, with each having signature diseases they spread and being weighted more towards certain aspects of DG like sorcerers, daemon engines or poxwalkers. It's not a huge theme in the army though, so I hope they get something more creative than that.
DG currently are mostly lacking in the stratagem department, they have the least stratagems of any codex right after assassins. New warlord traits would also be nice, as all but Arch Contaminator are irrelevant.
I think it's a given DG get new strats. How many though I'm not sure. Their guns were specifically referenced as sounding "wet" in the short story - perhaps they'll get some "Sloppy Issue Ammunition"?
E - on topic - what do people think we're going to see for DG and Tau then?
Do DG have similar Cults to TS? Are there different Vectors or something from the Heresy?
Detachment-level rules for 7 Vectors of DG is probably a good bet.
EDIT: the codex names 7 plague companies and 14 'vectoriums', so maybe it'll be the former.
I'm still wondering if that Shadowsun picture is a red herring and GSC won't appear in PA5, but rather AdMech will be the 3rd faction. That would neatly tie up three things; their upcoming model release, explain who helped repel the DG fleet, and means one less Imperial faction to cover later.
Then we can have a GSC vs Deathwatch rematch in a later book.
Even if there are no GSC in this book (and right now it seems very likely they are), the third faction will not be admech. They are needed for toaster wars against necrons.
Even if there are no GSC in this book (and right now it seems very likely they are), the third faction will not be admech. They are needed for toaster wars against necrons.
Yeah they could continue the story from Forgebane. Hell, there are rumour engine pics implying both Necron and AdMech character models, so we could see another boxed set like it too.
It's just very odd for GW to preview that AdMech vehicle at the end of November if it's not due until say PA7 in April, or later.
Given the number of admech kits not currently in the codex, I'm expecting them to get a full 2.0 book in the next month or two, instead of just a PA supplement. Sisters just did after all.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Given the number of admech kits not currently in the codex, I'm expecting them to get a full 2.0 book in the next month or two, instead of just a PA supplement. Sisters just did after all.
The same could be said of daemons who have all the slaanesh releases and revised khorne profiles missing from the codex. Alongside being seriously short in stratagems, plus their natural adversary already being covered.
Even if there are no GSC in this book (and right now it seems very likely they are), the third faction will not be admech. They are needed for toaster wars against necrons.
Yeah they could continue the story from Forgebane.
They've been continuing the story from Forgebane. The AdMech codex actually laid the groundwork for it, Kill Team's starter box with Skitarii v GSC, and Vigilus Defiant continued it.
Hell, there are rumour engine pics implying both Necron and AdMech character models, so we could see another boxed set like it too.
The Necron "rumor engine" seemed to be more of an AdMech special character. There's been a good chunk of focus on the Xenarites and Stygies VIII lately and having a piece of Necron tech is right up their alley.
It's just very odd for GW to preview that AdMech vehicle at the end of November if it's not due until say PA7 in April, or later.
There was a decent gap between the reveal of the Skorpius and the actual release too.
Tomorrow, GW will likely post a Genestealer Cults short story. That's why I think they are the 3rd faction in Book 5. I do not recall mention of Tau or DG in this one, or any other faction really.
It might not mean anything, as others have already mentioned, seeing as guardsmen were mentioned in previews PA short stories but haven't been featured in the books as of yet.
What's the point of posting that? At this juncture, it's obvious that whatever information there is not an actual source for the info on the book--it's speculation coming off of datamining on the Community page's media permissions.
You don't consider Psychic Awakening short story .pdfs a source of info on Psychic Awakening books when they have posted each one on the Warhammer Community site?
So, a full review of the stuff thousand sons got, ranked from least interesting to most interesting.
How cults work: Each thousand sons detachment gains a cult keyword on all non-unique, non-cultist or tzaangor units. Funnily enough that includes spawn and mutaliths, we dont judge I guess.
That grants all the psykers the cult's unique psychic power in addition to what they ordinarily get, so thats fun. Still only one cast per turn but anyone can cast it. This is better kn some cults than others.
Allies dont affect this rule, you can soup and still get cults.
All thousand sons also get 7 new stratagems.
Magister 1CP. One use only, give a non warlord a warlord trait.
Useful for actually getting the cult rules on the table.
Risen Rubricae 1CP: deploy one unit of rubric marines anywhere outside 9" from enemy models rather than deploying normally.
Good for using the next stratagem turn 1.
Fullisades 1CP: a unit of rubrics or scarabs that did not move this turn may fire rapid fire weapons twice.
Obviously a big boost to the power of rubrics if you pull it off. Its really nice that all these new stratagems are pretty cheap, since after buying a second wl trait and relic almost every game youll probably need the stratagems to be inexpensive.
Sorcerous Something 1CP: use in the psychic phase when a friendly unit is affected by a power and a natural 9 or better was rolled for the psychic test. One model in the unit is healed D3 wounds or if no models are wounded, one model is returned from the unit with full wounds remaining.
Again, I like that the stratagems are cheap but situational. That lets them be impactful while still being only 1CP, and we can stretch out our limited pool.
Warp Invuln Saves Thingy 1CP: use when a unit of rubrics or scarabs is targeted by an attack.add 1 to the units invuln save to a max of 3++ until the end of the phase.
Remember that All is Dust could theoretically let us get a 2++ with this anyway. Another very good rubric focused stratagem.
No, It's Much Too Perilous 1CP: ignore a perils roll.
Thousand sons have needed this one for ages. Very good addition.
Yoked Automata 2CP: use when a character is charged, a unit of rubrics or scarabs can heroically intervene 2D6".
Uh...what? The only bad one of the bunch. Random distance? Catapult your shooting units into melee? 2CP? Eh, whatever, most of them were good.
Power: Attempted Possession. Target character within 18" takes 1MW and suffers -2 to all psychic tests they take in their next turn.
Trait: beguiling influence. -1 to A and S of all units within 1" of warlord
Relic: Sothors Reflector. When this model is chosen to fight they may copy the melee weapon of an enemy character within 1", but may not reroll any dice when attacking.
Overall thoughts: the weakest of the bunch imo. An anti-psyker anti character sort of setup but other cults have much better tools for that.
Brometheus wrote: You don't consider Psychic Awakening short story .pdfs a source of info on Psychic Awakening books when they have posted each one on the Warhammer Community site?
You're right, I'll stick to posting on B&C.
Lets not be overly dramatic, don't stop posting here because of some troll.
I value most of what you guys say, even if i don't agree with it .
Power: Twist Reality, wc6. Select enemy unit within 12", -1 to Ld and A.
Trait: Fickle Nature. Warlord rerolls charges and may shoot and charge after falling back.
Capricious Crest: within 18" of the bearer, you may change enemy psykers' 6s to 1s and Cult of Change psykers' 1s to 6s
This one is only worth considering for arguably the best relic in all the cults.
Double your opponents chance to peril, remove their chance to supersmite, make their average roll a 5 and yours a 9... But probably the least useful trait and power.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Cult of Knowledge
Power; psychic delve WC6. Select an enemy unit within 18", whwn resolving an attack against that unit friendly cult of knowledge units reroll 1 to wound.
Trait: Scholar. Reroll dice rolls of 1 for psychic tests
Relic: gladdions cry. This was glossed over I/ the video bit I believe it was a warpflame pistol with +1S and damage
A fairly unexceptional cult, one of the only ones saddled with a weapon relic and a boring trait. Power is OK. Mini doom.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Cult of Mutation
Power: Warp Reality WC6. Select a terrain feature within 18" and an enemy unit within 3" of the feature. That units movement is halved and subtract 1 from all advance and charge rolls in its next turn.
Trait: touch of vissitude. Warlord inflicts 1MW for each unmodified hit roll of 6 in the fight phase.
Relic: Exalted mutation. SORCEROR only, +1S, A, and T.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Cult of Scheming
Power: Seeded Strategy WC6. A friendly cult of scheming unit within 6" can shoot and charge even if it fell back.
Trait: grand schemer. While within 3" of the warlord all cult of scheming units gain disciples of tzeentch (obsec)
Relic: if the model is on the battlefield once per battle you may declare a stratagem to cost 0CP.
This is one of the mid tier ones with a very strong use case, that being max size rubric blobs. Use the power to prevent them being tied up and the relic to give them a free use of Votlw on a turn you have them buffed to hell and double tapping.
Id pass up the trait personally for the 5+ cp regen or something. If im running cult of scheming I have troops with a good board footprint. Maybe to get obsec scarabs.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Cult of Prophecy
Divine Future WC6. If manifested roll a die and set it aside. After rolling a hit roll, wound roll, damage roll, psychic test, charge roll, damage roll or advance roll made by a cult of prophecy unit you may substitute the number on that die for the result.
Trait: guided by whispers. After the warlord fires overwatch he may move 6".
Relic: psychic brazier. When a friendly unit within 6" of the bearer attacks it may reroll 1 hit roll wound roll or damage roll.
A middling cult. A slightly more limited miracle die (only for offensive actions) but slightly more potent as you can substitute after rolling is a good power, but the trait is very bad.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Cult of Duplicity
Power: sorcerous Facade wc7. Select one friendly unit within 6", pick up the unit and set them down anywhere over 9" from enemy models. The unit counts as having moved.
Trait: duplicitous tactician. Redeploy D3 Cult of Duplicity units before the start of the first turn.
Relic: perfidious tome. Roll a die at the start of each battle round. On a 1 your opponent gains 1CP, on a 4+ you gain 1CP.
Barring the...let's say very chaos-y relic, this offers some great possibilities. If the larger detachment of your army is this cult, basically every unit has the ability to Da Jump themselves. Get out of melee, grab an objective, target an exposed character, love it.
Good trait too. Especially if youre trying the risen rubricae+fullisade combo and you dont want to worry about getting seized.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Cult of Magic
Power: Astral Bigly Smite WC6. If manifested the closest enemy unit within 18" takes D3 MWs and all units within 3" take 1MW.
Trait: devastating sorcery. When this warlord deals any MW from a psychic power to an enemy unit, that unit suffers 1 additional MW.
Relic: Add +1 to psychic tests taken by the bearer.
Heres the one for your supreme command. A DPtz with the trait and infernal gateway is a hideous threat to clustered enemy units. Just in general though every model in this cult has the option to pull out a double smite AND they get to select all their regular powers, making them very versatile.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Cult of Time
Power: Time Flux WC5. One friendlt cult of time infantry unit within 12" returns 1 destroyed model to the battlefield or D3 if the power was cast on a 9+.
Trait: if your warlord casts a power on a 9+ he may cast 1 additional power this turn.
Relic: hourglass of monach. The first time the bearer is destroyed, it is returned with D3 wounds remaining at the end of the phase. Place the model as close to its previous position as possible.
Another generically good cult for a large detachment. Ideally with good sized units for you to resurrect models to.
I do like it when a book contains 3 factions that I don't collect, saves buying it. So far I've done OK with the book options (no BA/Nids), and now no DG/Tau/GSC. The downside is I still have Harlequins and Deathwatch remaining and rumours are they are not in the same book, so my luck may be ending.
Well, here's to GSC becoming a decent army, ideally without having to jump through 2 vigilus detachments and multi-faction detachments from every section of the book just to get some basic functionality going.
GSC having all their "unit-specific" strats that give that extra bit of flavour/utility to a units also be their "sub-faction" specific strats was really a poor design choice of the original Codex IMO.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Well, here's to GSC becoming a decent army, ideally without having to jump through 2 vigilus detachments and multi-faction detachments from every section of the book just to get some basic functionality going.
GSC having all their "unit-specific" strats that give that extra bit of flavour/utility to a units also be their "sub-faction" specific strats was really a poor design choice of the original Codex IMO.
Considering the trend of non imperium not getting this status of affairs that seems preetty low a chance to happen.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Well, here's to GSC becoming a decent army, ideally without having to jump through 2 vigilus detachments and multi-faction detachments from every section of the book just to get some basic functionality going.
GSC having all their "unit-specific" strats that give that extra bit of flavour/utility to a units also be their "sub-faction" specific strats was really a poor design choice of the original Codex IMO.
Considering the trend of non imperium not getting this status of affairs that seems preetty low a chance to happen.
Well, either we'll get a second pheonix rising where the book is just 30% shorter, or maybe with no factions that will not be named we'll actually see decent attention getting paid.
The problem Cults have currently is just...they don't need goodies like what PA has been mostly about. They need core functionality. They've just got so much clunk and jank in their rules - BS4+ vehicles toting heavy weapons leading to our "Mobile" options functionally being stationary gun turrets, only 5 of their actual units benefitting from cult traits, cartoonishly nerfed Aberrants and Kelermorph, Metamorphs still lacking a reason for their existence with Acolytes toting far nastier weaponry, Neophytes being absolutely identical to Brood Brothers/Guardsmen but for no reason costing 20% more.
Genestealer cults get treated like pretty much any "assassin" type character that relies on ambush and high damage output in a competitive video game: every single player who picks the "Sniper" type characters who emphasize the lowest-risk, highest-reward style of play screeches at the fact that they stand no chance once the assassin is already on top of them and they're in a 1 on 1 fight, demands nerfs and ways to combat them without changing their preferred playstyle at all, and the assassin is an actual viable choice for about 3 seconds before they get nerfed to the ground.
Oh no, oh god, a unit exists that can deep strike in and kill a knight if it isn't screened? And it's not a Space Marine captain kitted out in a few very specific ways that we don't care about for some reason? That thing better see a 30% points nerf toot sweet! A 12" range assassin might challenge the supremacy of Characterhammer? No, say I, it shall not be! He MUST be more expensive than nearly every character he can conceivably kill in one round or he is irredeemably broken!!
Genestealer Cults have one specific tool that works really well and absolutely 0 tools for almost anything else. What do you do if you see a list with several flyers? Well, you lose. What do you do against anti-deep strike bubbles and stratagems? Lose. Space Marine super-deep strike? lose.
You could, I guess, give them a few stratagems to handle specific situations they don't really have the means to deal with currently, but they need more of a core rework to function. For starters, the "everybody jumps out of a hole and stabs the dudes to death" playstyle is supposed to be only one of three things GSC do, but the "ragged band of vehicle-riding mad max dudes" just....doesn't work, and the "traitor guard regiment" identity is just "hey want to play a guard army but you don't get traits?"
Sunny Side Up wrote: Well, here's to GSC becoming a decent army, ideally without having to jump through 2 vigilus detachments and multi-faction detachments from every section of the book just to get some basic functionality going.
GSC having all their "unit-specific" strats that give that extra bit of flavour/utility to a units also be their "sub-faction" specific strats was really a poor design choice of the original Codex IMO.
Considering the trend of non imperium not getting this status of affairs that seems preetty low a chance to happen.
Well, either we'll get a second pheonix rising where the book is just 30% shorter, or maybe with no factions that will not be named we'll actually see decent attention getting paid.
The problem Cults have currently is just...they don't need goodies like what PA has been mostly about. They need core functionality. They've just got so much clunk and jank in their rules - BS4+ vehicles toting heavy weapons leading to our "Mobile" options functionally being stationary gun turrets, only 5 of their actual units benefitting from cult traits, cartoonishly nerfed Aberrants and Kelermorph, Metamorphs still lacking a reason for their existence with Acolytes toting far nastier weaponry, Neophytes being absolutely identical to Brood Brothers/Guardsmen but for no reason costing 20% more.
I know that problem, i play/ed (well it's hard not to stop playing ) R&H, and mostly played what was in essence an infantry only regiment, that i sold of and replaced with my 31. after the realisation that basic militia got from3 to 4 pts in 8th, and understandably, when your core unit gets that treatment it is no wonder an army tanks in performance, especially if you factor in CP so my condolences.
Genestealer cults get treated like pretty much any "assassin" type character that relies on ambush and high damage output in a competitive video game: every single player who picks the "Sniper" type characters who emphasize the lowest-risk, highest-reward style of play screeches at the fact that they stand no chance once the assassin is already on top of them and they're in a 1 on 1 fight, demands nerfs and ways to combat them without changing their preferred playstyle at all, and the assassin is an actual viable choice for about 3 seconds before they get nerfed to the ground.
Frankly, that is maybee just my opinion, but GSC should've not been so heavily melee centric as they were and still are. Tehy should've been the ambush army, not just relying upon an otk charge but advantagous positions for snipers, shooting units aswell, but alas, maybee i just am too unkowing in design.
Oh no, oh god, a unit exists that can deep strike in and kill a knight if it isn't screened? And it's not a Space Marine captain kitted out in a few very specific ways that we don't care about for some reason? That thing better see a 30% points nerf toot sweet! A 12" range assassin might challenge the supremacy of Characterhammer? No, say I, it shall not be! He MUST be more expensive than nearly every character he can conceivably kill in one round or he is irredeemably broken!!
As a parttime csm player, i understand the frustration on both parts, random spanker popping out somwhere and ripping your lord / sorcerer to shreds for a fraction of the cost? annoying. Not beeing able to use the Asassin the way he should be useable? annoying.
Genestealer Cults have one specific tool that works really well and absolutely 0 tools for almost anything else. What do you do if you see a list with several flyers? Well, you lose. What do you do against anti-deep strike bubbles and stratagems? Lose. Space Marine super-deep strike? lose.
honestly cult ambush has been handled wrong, but also, more importantly, i feel like the sizecreep, with lower unit prices (csm was 15 pts when i started playing, now he is 11) and the general hike in pts for pick up games and competitive on not size increased boards leads to a ridicoulus ammount of gotcha pain, with no possibility to even propper use a defense in depth due to size constraints.
You could, I guess, give them a few stratagems to handle specific situations they don't really have the means to deal with currently, but they need more of a core rework to function. For starters, the "everybody jumps out of a hole and stabs the dudes to death" playstyle is supposed to be only one of three things GSC do, but the "ragged band of vehicle-riding mad max dudes" just....doesn't work, and the "traitor guard regiment" identity is just "hey want to play a guard army but you don't get traits?"
Hey atleast you'd get SOME stratagems which is better, objectively then nothing. Also, out of the thre styles, frankly GSC should've been instead the guerrilla army, Regular core and line bait troops, irregular strategy and abilites, infantry centric , special terrain interactions etc. Focus on special weapons brittle but high damage output.
but that is how i'd design the list...
zamerion wrote: Speaking of PA, have any of the books changed points of any faction?
Not that I know of. Maybe the new banshees and incubi? But I don't think so. Drazar may have changed points with his new datasheet, I know Jain Zar did not.
It'd be pretty comical if units were getting point changes like 1-2 months after chapter approved.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Well, here's to GSC becoming a decent army, ideally without having to jump through 2 vigilus detachments and multi-faction detachments from every section of the book just to get some basic functionality going.
GSC having all their "unit-specific" strats that give that extra bit of flavour/utility to a units also be their "sub-faction" specific strats was really a poor design choice of the original Codex IMO.
Considering the trend of non imperium not getting this status of affairs that seems preetty low a chance to happen.
Well, either we'll get a second pheonix rising where the book is just 30% shorter, or maybe with no factions that will not be named we'll actually see decent attention getting paid.
The problem Cults have currently is just...they don't need goodies like what PA has been mostly about. They need core functionality. They've just got so much clunk and jank in their rules - BS4+ vehicles toting heavy weapons leading to our "Mobile" options functionally being stationary gun turrets, only 5 of their actual units benefitting from cult traits, cartoonishly nerfed Aberrants and Kelermorph, Metamorphs still lacking a reason for their existence with Acolytes toting far nastier weaponry, Neophytes being absolutely identical to Brood Brothers/Guardsmen but for no reason costing 20% more.
I know that problem, i play/ed (well it's hard not to stop playing ) R&H, and mostly played what was in essence an infantry only regiment, that i sold of and replaced with my 31. after the realisation that basic militia got from3 to 4 pts in 8th, and understandably, when your core unit gets that treatment it is no wonder an army tanks in performance, especially if you factor in CP so my condolences.
Genestealer cults get treated like pretty much any "assassin" type character that relies on ambush and high damage output in a competitive video game: every single player who picks the "Sniper" type characters who emphasize the lowest-risk, highest-reward style of play screeches at the fact that they stand no chance once the assassin is already on top of them and they're in a 1 on 1 fight, demands nerfs and ways to combat them without changing their preferred playstyle at all, and the assassin is an actual viable choice for about 3 seconds before they get nerfed to the ground.
Frankly, that is maybee just my opinion, but GSC should've not been so heavily melee centric as they were and still are. Tehy should've been the ambush army, not just relying upon an otk charge but advantagous positions for snipers, shooting units aswell, but alas, maybee i just am too unkowing in design.
Oh no, oh god, a unit exists that can deep strike in and kill a knight if it isn't screened? And it's not a Space Marine captain kitted out in a few very specific ways that we don't care about for some reason? That thing better see a 30% points nerf toot sweet! A 12" range assassin might challenge the supremacy of Characterhammer? No, say I, it shall not be! He MUST be more expensive than nearly every character he can conceivably kill in one round or he is irredeemably broken!!
As a parttime csm player, i understand the frustration on both parts, random spanker popping out somwhere and ripping your lord / sorcerer to shreds for a fraction of the cost? annoying. Not beeing able to use the Asassin the way he should be useable? annoying.
Genestealer Cults have one specific tool that works really well and absolutely 0 tools for almost anything else. What do you do if you see a list with several flyers? Well, you lose. What do you do against anti-deep strike bubbles and stratagems? Lose. Space Marine super-deep strike? lose.
honestly cult ambush has been handled wrong, but also, more importantly, i feel like the sizecreep, with lower unit prices (csm was 15 pts when i started playing, now he is 11) and the general hike in pts for pick up games and competitive on not size increased boards leads to a ridicoulus ammount of gotcha pain, with no possibility to even propper use a defense in depth due to size constraints.
You could, I guess, give them a few stratagems to handle specific situations they don't really have the means to deal with currently, but they need more of a core rework to function. For starters, the "everybody jumps out of a hole and stabs the dudes to death" playstyle is supposed to be only one of three things GSC do, but the "ragged band of vehicle-riding mad max dudes" just....doesn't work, and the "traitor guard regiment" identity is just "hey want to play a guard army but you don't get traits?"
Hey atleast you'd get SOME stratagems which is better, objectively then nothing. Also, out of the thre styles, frankly GSC should've been instead the guerrilla army, Regular core and line bait troops, irregular strategy and abilites, infantry centric , special terrain interactions etc. Focus on special weapons brittle but high damage output.
but that is how i'd design the list...
...They are that. It's just that the units that do what you say are objectively terrible at that job. in terms of shooting units vs melee units, GSC have plenty of shooting or hybrid shooty/melee units, the problem they suffer from is just that those units aren't terribly efficient.
All their vehicles are shooting focused, but are BS4+ with heavy weapons so you either have to plop them down on something and not move all game, relying on the super-tough T6 4+ statline to protect you, or hit like an Ork without Dakkadakkadakka. Other units just end up having ridiculously low damage output for the points however you slice it, like the Jackal bikers and Goliath trucks. If you want to bring down a knight, you can do it with 500 points of aberrants, or 1000 points of achilles ridgerunners, assuming you don't move with any of them. GSC rely on melee only not because that's how the actual army is designed but because it's the only way you'll ever win a game.
Interesting. We don't often get a hybrid's point of view. He's distressingly normal (in an imperial citizen way), all mindless zealotry and faith- if it hadn't explicitly mentioned his forehead ridges, it would've been difficult to tell he wasn't an infected human.
The tau connection is far more interesting and well done.
Interesting. We don't often get a hybrid's point of view. He's distressingly normal (in an imperial citizen way), all mindless zealotry and faith- if it hadn't explicitly mentioned his forehead ridges, it would've been difficult to tell he wasn't an infected human.
I hadn't thought about that, for some reason I assumed that 4th generation hybrids interbred to create the purestrains so him being a hybrid was a natural assumption for me, but yea if you go back they never give enough detail about his mate to determine if she is also a hybrid or just an infected human.
Interesting. We don't often get a hybrid's point of view. He's distressingly normal (in an imperial citizen way), all mindless zealotry and faith- if it hadn't explicitly mentioned his forehead ridges, it would've been difficult to tell he wasn't an infected human.
The tau connection is far more interesting and well done.
Why is it odd that he is all zealotry? 40K Imperial society is hyper religious compared to today’s societies, and GSC followers replace one focus of devotion with another, sometimes masquerading as another local Imperial cult variant and the Magus or Patriarch being like a cult leader or living saint respectively.
That said I wish GW would do more xenos vs xenos conflict like this.
the_scotsman wrote: Neophytes being absolutely identical to Brood Brothers/Guardsmen but for no reason costing 20% more.
Might want to check your maths there, fella - 55 is a lot more than a 20% more than 4 points (1275% more. I think), and even 5 points is 25% more on 4, not a 20% more...
Galas wrote: This short histories are being really good.
Man, what GW can do when they stop writting about bolterporn and try other more, grounded, interesting factions.
it's not a faction that makes the bolterporn, it's the content of the writing. glimpses into day to day life are always appreciated. even as a space marine fan the useal boiler plate bolter porn is dull. I admit I often find myself skimming fight scenes in the novels.
...They are that. It's just that the units that do what you say are objectively terrible at that job. in terms of shooting units vs melee units, GSC have plenty of shooting or hybrid shooty/melee units, the problem they suffer from is just that those units aren't terribly efficient.
All their vehicles are shooting focused, but are BS4+ with heavy weapons so you either have to plop them down on something and not move all game, relying on the super-tough T6 4+ statline to protect you, or hit like an Ork without Dakkadakkadakka. Other units just end up having ridiculously low damage output for the points however you slice it, like the Jackal bikers and Goliath trucks. If you want to bring down a knight, you can do it with 500 points of aberrants, or 1000 points of achilles ridgerunners, assuming you don't move with any of them. GSC rely on melee only not because that's how the actual army is designed but because it's the only way you'll ever win a game.
Which is the crux of the whole situation.
Which would also be the reason i consider it wrong designed. You shouldn't need to have to relly on one option, melee in this case. GSC shouldn't be on the far end of one main damage dealing way unlike WE or Tau.
Also one would think that GW had thought about fast vehicles with heavy weapons and granted them atleast something to migitate the questionable bs.
...They are that. It's just that the units that do what you say are objectively terrible at that job. in terms of shooting units vs melee units, GSC have plenty of shooting or hybrid shooty/melee units, the problem they suffer from is just that those units aren't terribly efficient.
All their vehicles are shooting focused, but are BS4+ with heavy weapons so you either have to plop them down on something and not move all game, relying on the super-tough T6 4+ statline to protect you, or hit like an Ork without Dakkadakkadakka. Other units just end up having ridiculously low damage output for the points however you slice it, like the Jackal bikers and Goliath trucks. If you want to bring down a knight, you can do it with 500 points of aberrants, or 1000 points of achilles ridgerunners, assuming you don't move with any of them. GSC rely on melee only not because that's how the actual army is designed but because it's the only way you'll ever win a game.
Which is the crux of the whole situation.
Which would also be the reason i consider it wrong designed. You shouldn't need to have to relly on one option, melee in this case. GSC shouldn't be on the far end of one main damage dealing way unlike WE or Tau.
Also one would think that GW had thought about fast vehicles with heavy weapons and granted them atleast something to migitate the questionable bs.
Limiting heavy weapons on non-INFANTRY models to only firing at full ballistic skill while stationary is one of the major flaws of the 8th edition ruleset in my opinion, alongside things that are not necessarily endemic in the rules but just arise in practice, like the ranges seemingly being designed as the theoretical maximum distance the weapon might fire, and not as an "effective range" at which you have anything more than a prayer of landing a hit through the fog and confusion of a battlefield.
In a board game, movement should be encouraged in general, and static modes of play should never be encouraged as a default.
Seemingly GW remembered to sidestep this by providing several of the factions known for mobility with Assault weapons or weapons that become Assault when mounted on vehicles, like Orks, Harlequins and Drukhari. But there are still tons of units who since the start of 8th have gone from mobile platforms to stationary gun turrets or more commonly don't function at all. Seemingly, any unit that's intended to move and shoot or shoot while moving forwards to melee just doesn't work if it's saddled with a Heavy weapon.
When's the last time you saw
land speeders
sentinels
dreadnoughts with one fist and one gun
war walkers
wraithlords
Chimeras
Attack Bikes
Vypers
etc
Not really sure what to add but to agree.
I think the GSC codex was cool on release, because having some synergy certainly beats having almost none. But you quickly realise its just canned strategy - i.e, take unit X with buffbot Y in subfaction Z using stratagems K and J. If you are ever not doing this, its explicitly worse than it could be, and since its all costed on the basis you will, you have to.
It may be an illusion - but I feel the Sisters of Battle Codex has as much synergy but it feels a lot more organic rather than an explicit "use this on that".
I think the heavy rule will be scraped in 9th. Maybe it should be "for vehicles (and monsters) all heavy weapons are treated as assault" - but arguably its just a limiting factor that almost everything "new" avoids.
For GSC (and others) I think the problem is that there isn't really "flavours" of assault like there is with shooting. Acolytes, Metamorphs, Purestrains and Abberants were always going to be in much the same space. At the extremes you have things like Smashcaptains, who take down a knight but not a 30 strength brood of Termagaunts - but this is rare. The problems of assault (getting around the table, charging, overwatch) prevent this degree of specialisation. If you can't be useful in all circumstances given all these downsides, you are too niche and too bad.
I don't think metamorphs are bad now at the reduced points but its always going to be marginal on acolytes who have obsec. Put Purestrains down to 12 and its the same situation. I actually think Abs may be a trap - especially with the points drop. Once you are taking a maxed squad - especially with an abominant, couldn't you just have brought 40~ acolytes and rocksaws? Less efficient use of A Perfect Ambush perhaps - but its so all or nothing.
One negative take - while in a world of Iron Hands I'm not sure anything can be too good - the Keller at 60 was daft. Its not just that he could kill characters, he could just pop non-5~ point infantry and make most of his points back. The argument I guess is that there is no real way to keep him alive - as even if he goes in a big pack of neophytes/brood brothers, any army can wipe dozens of them off the map with ease.
Anyway, I've been negative on PA but after Ritual of the Damned I am more enthused. Tau really don't need much optionality to be a very interesting faction, even if triple tides is probably always going to reign supreme. By contrast I think GSC and Death Guard fundamentally need more units which they are not going to get.
There are a couple things you could add to GSC that might make it a more interesting play experience.
1) A real trait for Brood Brothers units. Not only do they lack traits other guard regiments get and, I believe even access to orders at this point, they have no synergy whatsoever with genestealer cult units. The big role they fill is frontline combat units that can take a punch that you can put down on the table turn 1 to keep your army from folding before the deep strike turn 2.
I think to me the ideal trait would be something like
Reign of Confusion: Units with the BROOD BROTHERS keyword are -1 to hit during the first battle round.
Simple, aids their goal as a force that takes the turn 1 punch, and fluffy as even forces that don't see the supposed PDF forces as allies would likely take them less seriously than a full blown cult ambush.
You could add some fun stratagems to them to highlight their nature as brainwashed zombies. If you gave me creative control I'd do stuff like replace the "Take Cover!" stratagem they have with a stratagem that allows them to grant an opponent Overwatch on a 4+ to hit in exchange for stopping them from making any other overwatch attacks that turn as the hypnotized soldiers fling themselves into enemy fire as cover. Stuff like that. But, the basic AM strats are serviceable and fine as-is.
2) Apply cult creeds to Ridgerunners, Goliaths and Rockgrinders with the release of the custom cult traits, and allow some of the custom cult traits to let you make a vehicle-focused army.
Some creeds would work alright with a vehicle based build - Hivecult springs to mind, but your vehicles would be hitting on 6s when they fall back. Pauper Princes would be good on rockgrinders but meaningless on the other two, and the defensive buffs on Rusted Claw and Bladed Cog would be nice but definitely pale in comparison to other factions' chapter tactics.
Custom cult traits like the following (WISHLISTING) would be amazing:
Reckless Raiders: VEHICLE models with this Cult Creed ignore the penalty for moving and firing Heavy weapons, and units with this Cult Creed embarked on transports that Advanced in the movement phase are treated as having moved rather than advanced.
Improvised Destruction: Whenever a VEHICLE keyword model with this Cult Creed is destroyed, you may choose to substitute the result of the role for the Explodes rule with a 6.
Cached War Assets: Until the first time a VEHICLE or BIKER keyword unit with this Cult Creed moves or declares a shooting attack, enemy units may not target it unless it is the closest enemy unit.
Mechanized Assault: Immediately after revealing units from blips with his Cult Creed, 3 units may move as if it were the movement phase, they may not advance as part of this move.
the_scotsman wrote: There are a couple things you could add to GSC that might make it a more interesting play experience.
1) A real trait for Brood Brothers units. Not only do they lack traits other guard regiments get and, I believe even access to orders at this point, they have no synergy whatsoever with genestealer cult units.
No, they have Orders. Per the FAQ:
‘Orders Brood Brothers units that have the Voice of Command or Tank Orders abilities (see Codex: Astra Militarum) cannot issue orders to any unit that has the Genestealer Cults Faction keyword, nor can they issue orders to units that they would not have been able to issue orders to before they gained the Brood Brothers keyword (e.g. a Brood Brothers Company Commander cannot issue orders to a Brood Brothers Ogryn unit or to a Brood Brothers Tempestus Scions unit).
What they did is remove an abused bit that allowed for Scions, Ratlings, Bullgryn/Ogryn to receive Orders from Platoon/Company Commanders since they received the "Brood Brothers" keyword. Their Orders mechanism now functions the same as the one Guard has, meaning that a Tempestus Prime is required to Order any Scions and a Platoon/Company Commander is required to Order Brood Brothers and allied Guard infantry units. Since Ratlings and Bullgryn/Ogryn have a 'locked' subfaction(Auxilia) they cannot receive Orders.
I don't know how to solve the trait for Brood Brothers bit, but I also don't really see an issue with a separate force from an entirely different army not getting a bonus "just because".
the_scotsman wrote: There are a couple things you could add to GSC that might make it a more interesting play experience.
1) A real trait for Brood Brothers units. Not only do they lack traits other guard regiments get and, I believe even access to orders at this point, they have no synergy whatsoever with genestealer cult units.
No, they have Orders. Per the FAQ:
‘Orders Brood Brothers units that have the Voice of Command or Tank Orders abilities (see Codex: Astra Militarum) cannot issue orders to any unit that has the Genestealer Cults Faction keyword, nor can they issue orders to units that they would not have been able to issue orders to before they gained the Brood Brothers keyword (e.g. a Brood Brothers Company Commander cannot issue orders to a Brood Brothers Ogryn unit or to a Brood Brothers Tempestus Scions unit).
What they did is remove an abused bit that allowed for Scions, Ratlings, Bullgryn/Ogryn to receive Orders from Platoon/Company Commanders since they received the "Brood Brothers" keyword. Their Orders mechanism now functions the same as the one Guard has, meaning that a Tempestus Prime is required to Order any Scions and a Platoon/Company Commander is required to Order Brood Brothers and allied Guard infantry units. Since Ratlings and Bullgryn/Ogryn have a 'locked' subfaction(Auxilia) they cannot receive Orders.
I don't know how to solve the trait for Brood Brothers bit, but I also don't really see an issue with a separate force from an entirely different army not getting a bonus "just because".
I mean, what is the purpose of any of these releases beyond "Just because"? The game would be objectively more tightly balanced if nobody's army had any traits, the reason they exist is to make the little army of plastic men fight more like they "feel" like they're supposed to.
The part I'm referring to losing orders is the part of the FAQ where it says "Any model with the GENESTEALER CULTS keyword" which means any unit of Brood Brothers, BB HWTs, or BB Leman Russes you field as a part of your actual genestealer cults detachment can't use orders, which kind of makes those units a big waste of space in the GSC codex.
Something like 1/5 of the units in the Genestealer Cults codex are Brood Brothers, in some cases slightly modified datasheets from codex astra militarum. In the codex, Brood Brothers are described as EITHER being hypnotized/tricked regiments of astra militarum or PDF OR being fully-fledged cult members who infiltrated a regiment, usually by being exemplary, self-sacrificing and obedient soldiers despite their minor physical deformity (which is still nowhere near the level of mutation that starts to be frowned upon as abhumanity). So from a game standpoint it makes sense that they're either totally separate detachments (Hypnotized troops) or entirely incorporated into the cult and taken as units in GSC detachments.
What I'm saying is you could give the separate detachments of hypnotized soldiers their own trait to replace the fact that they don't get a REGIMENT bonus. But honestly I'd be happier to just see the guard copy/pastes within the GSC codex given the regular <cult> traits. Just to give you a little more to work with than the 5 units you currently have.
Seriously, 5 units who aren't character buffbots who can benefit from any traits at all.
1 biker unit. Guess which trait you should take if you like this unit? Hint, it's the one that gives a bonus to BIKER models specifically and has a stratagem that only works on a weapon they can take.
1 shooting focused infantry unit that can take heavy weapons. Hmm, figure I should pick the "INFANTRY models can move and fire heavy weapons" Trait if my army is heavy on those?
3 deep striking melee units. Oh, looks like I have a trait that helps my deep strike charge rolls, and 2 traits that directly increase melee power.
What choices!
Of course, there are 5 infantry units in the codex that don't get traits, and 6 vehicle units that don't get traits, sure would be much more interesting if we could play with those. Oh look, none of them are the units currently seen in competitive GSC lists.
You can thank the people who were taking Supreme Command Detachments of Company Commanders/Tank Commanders for the removal of the interaction.
You might not get <Cult> traits on the Brood Brothers stuff but nor do Secutarii(Hoplites and Peltast) for AdMech or Scions for Guard(technically. They can get a trait if taken in a pure Scion detachment but otherwise they can't even receive Orders in a <Regiment> detachment), Bullgryn/Ogryn, Ratlings, etc.
I'm assuming it has something to do with auras interacting funny, as GSC have a decent amount of them right?
Kanluwen wrote: You can thank the people who were taking Supreme Command Detachments of Company Commanders/Tank Commanders for the removal of the interaction.
You might not get <Cult> traits on the Brood Brothers stuff but nor do Secutarii(Hoplites and Peltast) for AdMech or Scions for Guard(technically. They can get a trait if taken in a pure Scion detachment but otherwise they can't even receive Orders in a <Regiment>, Bullgryn/Ogryn, Ratlings, etc.
I'm assuming it has something to do with auras interacting funny, as GSC have a decent amount of them right?
I can't imagine that is it. A good deal of the auras already include Brood Brothers in the descriptions of them as a secondary to most Cult infantry.
land speeders
sentinels
dreadnoughts with one fist and one gun
war walkers
wraithlords
Chimeras
Attack Bikes
Vypers
etc
Not that it negates your point in any way and I absolutely agree with you, but apparently Wraithlords and War Walkers have seen a resurgence of late.
And you will be seeing landspeeders in new Ravenwing armies
Yes, but mainly because they will be able to move and shoot without penalty, which goes into his argument.
Not quite. For 55 pts I can drop a unit of Deathwing Knights within 6" throw a cyclone missile launcher on for more fire support and a character with Master of Maneuver near by and I'm wrecking things.
Theories on PA reveals at LVO? Anyone got any ideas?
With the WHW event booked next month I'm praying we get to see new Titanicus stuff. It's been far too long without anything new.
For 40k they'll cover the rest of PA5/6 and maybe hint at what's next. Depends which of them (if any) get a Phoenix Rising style boxed set. I'm betting there's a larger AdMech release coming up, and we're getting more than just that flyer.
Theories on PA reveals at LVO? Anyone got any ideas?
I'm conflicted about the LVO preview, we know the big thing will be the high elves coming back, but it'd be unusual not to have some sizeable 40k previews as well but I don't feel 2-3 one off characters really is enough imo. I imagine we'll get the next 3 book names again and maybe a preview for Saga of the Beast's character, but I'd not be shocked if we get a codex preview in some capacity.
Theories on PA reveals at LVO? Anyone got any ideas?
I'm conflicted about the LVO preview, we know the big thing will be the high elves coming back, but it'd be unusual not to have some sizeable 40k previews as well but I don't feel 2-3 one off characters really is enough imo. I imagine we'll get the next 3 book names again and maybe a preview for Saga of the Beast's character, but I'd not be shocked if we get a codex preview in some capacity.
A craftworld eldar or dark eldar codex wouldn't be a complete suprise. given we've not yet seen multipart plastic Howling Banshees yet
captain collius wrote: Not quite. For 55 pts I can drop a unit of Deathwing Knights within 6" throw a cyclone missile launcher on for more fire support and a character with Master of Maneuver near by and I'm wrecking things.
Death Wing can only be called in by RAVENWING BIKER units, so not speeders. Outside of that, the speeder stratagem is quite weak when you consider that DA already re-roll ones army-wide and have a great. I'd be surprised if we see any speeders besides the darkshroud.
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BrianDavion wrote: A craftworld eldar or dark eldar codex wouldn't be a complete suprise. given we've not yet seen multipart plastic Howling Banshees yet
Not really, the contents of boxed set can take up to one year to appear solo.
captain collius wrote: Not quite. For 55 pts I can drop a unit of Deathwing Knights within 6" throw a cyclone missile launcher on for more fire support and a character with Master of Maneuver near by and I'm wrecking things.
Death Wing can only be called in by RAVENWING BIKER units, so not speeders. Outside of that, the speeder stratagem is quite weak when you consider that DA already re-roll ones army-wide and have a great. I'd be surprised if we see any speeders besides the darkshroud.
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BrianDavion wrote: A craftworld eldar or dark eldar codex wouldn't be a complete suprise. given we've not yet seen multipart plastic Howling Banshees yet
Not really, the contents of boxed set can take up to one year to appear solo.
assuming they ever do....
still lacking a plastic deffcopta kit
Spreelock wrote: Fingers crossed for the admech and Astra militarum getting some new stuff. Most of the Imperial guard dont even have models for their regiments.
Admech is known to be getting a flier, as for AM regiments, I'm not sure that'll be in the cards, plastic is much more expensive to produce then metal so..
Spreelock wrote: Fingers crossed for the admech and Astra militarum getting some new stuff. Most of the Imperial guard dont even have models for their regiments.
Admech is known to be getting a flier, as for AM regiments, I'm not sure that'll be in the cards, plastic is much more expensive to produce then metal so..
Yeah, it could be a problem with producing all the models, and such a wide range of models is hard for stores to shelv.
Abaddon was the "big" reveal at last LVO, I'm assuming Teclis is taking that role this year.
For 40k I'd say we'll get a look at either the next 2 PA books, or maybe that blurred image of bikes/landspeeders.
captain collius wrote: Not quite. For 55 pts I can drop a unit of Deathwing Knights within 6" throw a cyclone missile launcher on for more fire support and a character with Master of Maneuver near by and I'm wrecking things.
Death Wing can only be called in by RAVENWING BIKER units, so not speeders. Outside of that, the speeder stratagem is quite weak when you consider that DA already re-roll ones army-wide and have a great. I'd be surprised if we see any speeders besides the darkshroud.
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BrianDavion wrote: A craftworld eldar or dark eldar codex wouldn't be a complete suprise. given we've not yet seen multipart plastic Howling Banshees yet
Not really, the contents of boxed set can take up to one year to appear solo.
assuming they ever do....
still lacking a plastic deffcopta kit
That's something entirely different though. Starter set sprues like that never did make it into separate boxes though - the models from Dark Imperium or Dark Vengeance never made it to box sets either. If their units are available, it's from completely different models.
bullyboy wrote: Abaddon was the "big" reveal at last LVO, I'm assuming Teclis is taking that role this year.
For 40k I'd say we'll get a look at either the next 2 PA books, or maybe that blurred image of bikes/landspeeders.
Just throwing this out there, but the quote used for the reveals:
LVO will also see a thrilling Warhammer Preview, packed with reveals, teases and cool stuff you didn’t even know you wanted to see – not least pointy aelves! There’ll also be some equally huge news for Warhammer 40,000.
Possible that it's just marketing speak, but it might also be something significant.
captain collius wrote: Not quite. For 55 pts I can drop a unit of Deathwing Knights within 6" throw a cyclone missile launcher on for more fire support and a character with Master of Maneuver near by and I'm wrecking things.
Death Wing can only be called in by RAVENWING BIKER units, so not speeders. Outside of that, the speeder stratagem is quite weak when you consider that DA already re-roll ones army-wide and have a great. I'd be surprised if we see any speeders besides the darkshroud.
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BrianDavion wrote: A craftworld eldar or dark eldar codex wouldn't be a complete suprise. given we've not yet seen multipart plastic Howling Banshees yet
Not really, the contents of boxed set can take up to one year to appear solo.
assuming they ever do....
still lacking a plastic deffcopta kit
That's something entirely different though. Starter set sprues like that never did make it into separate boxes though - the models from Dark Imperium or Dark Vengeance never made it to box sets either. If their units are available, it's from completely different models.
Took a year and a half for the Broodlord to go from the Deathstorm boxset to general release though, and about the same for Eldrad so long waits are nothing new.
Took a year and a half for the Broodlord to go from the Deathstorm boxset to general release though, and about the same for Eldrad so long waits are nothing new.
Eldrad, Broodlord, etc are individual sprues that were designed to be sold by themselves and got bundled into a battlebox first.
Dark Imperium, Battle For Maccragge, Black Reach, etc are starter sets where sprues have mixed items.
Yes please a bundle box that includes acolytes and a goliath...holy crap why do the "unit spammin'est" factions not have good discount boxes?
Who knows!
I've, personally, been thinking that it might be because they're reevaluating what comes in a Start Collecting set and intending on more models to come in the sets where possible.
Spreelock wrote: Fingers crossed for the admech and Astra militarum getting some new stuff. Most of the Imperial guard dont even have models for their regiments.
Back when the first book of Psychic Awakening came out, I assumed the Guard would get a plastic psyker for their PA release, since all of their psyker units are still only available in metal, somehow. I can't see what else small-scale they could give them, that's not a major troops + command squad + heavy weapon teams boxes release for a new regiment. Ratlings are kind of a bizarre throwback unit that few people are excited about, and I think that's the last resin-only unit in the codex, special characters notwithstanding.
Beyond that, I think the range could actually do with more brand new stuff. Looking on the webstore, the Astra Militarum section has 63 items, and that includes all the double entries from multibuild boxes (so the Baneblade / Shadowsword is there 8 times), the old Catachan and Cadian snipers, easy-fit Cadians and so on. I think there's room there for something new. What I'd also like to see is a remake of the Basilisk at long last, it's one of the last 2E era sprues still used as-is. Alas, the ship's already sailed on them making a Basilisk / Medusa / Griffon multi-box, since the Wyvern covers the tracked-mortar niche so well already.
Orks+Space Wolves in book 6 leaves Imperial Guard, Death Watch, Daemons, Necrons, Ad Mech, Custodes and Both sets of Knights. Maybe Harlequins/Sisters depending on whether they count as being "done".
I don't know. Guard+Custodes vs Daemons. Ad Mech+Death Watch versus Necrons and Knights versus Knights? Might make the last book a bit dull - but if you released it with a Knight sprue it could work.
Orks+Space Wolves in book 6 leaves Imperial Guard, Death Watch, Daemons, Necrons, Ad Mech, Custodes and Both sets of Knights. Maybe Harlequins/Sisters depending on whether they count as being "done".
I don't know. Guard+Custodes vs Daemons. Ad Mech+Death Watch versus Necrons and Knights versus Knights? Might make the last book a bit dull - but if you released it with a Knight sprue it could work.
Would not be surprised if we see Guard lumped into the Orks + Wolves book. Guard vs Orks is always a classic matchup, and the Wolves often appreciate their more mortal allies among the Guard more than the average marine.
Then we get Custodes (possibly with SoS for the full ToE), Daemons, Harlequins and AdMech, Necrons, DW. Maybe a separate book just for the Knights?
Harlequins didn't get anything in Phoenix Rising, so they still do remain.
Personally, I'm leaning towards:
-Guard+Deathwatch v Necrons
-Custodes v Daemons v Harlequins sounds plausible-ish
-AdMech+Knights v Chaos Knights+Dark Mechanicus
Hear me out on the last bit:
We've got at least one Dark Mechanicus unit right now, thanks to Blackstone Fortress. Knights, of both stripes, could use something in their list that isn't just another big walker. They keep talking about the Household Guards and the like and now Secutarii[Titan Guards] have been added into the AdMech rule lists(Skorpius allow for transporting them) but are a FW item currently. Wouldn't be shocked to see Secutarii added for the Imperial Knights+AdMech and a similar unit for the Chaos Knights+Dark Mechanicus.
Alternatively, if they go Xenarite focused like they have been for AdMech lately(Both Kill Teams and Vigilus focused on Stygies instead of Mars)?
-AdMech vs Harlequins vs Necrons
-Knights v Knights
-Custodes v Daemons
Yes please a bundle box that includes acolytes and a goliath...holy crap why do the "unit spammin'est" factions not have good discount boxes?
Who knows!
I've, personally, been thinking that it might be because they're reevaluating what comes in a Start Collecting set and intending on more models to come in the sets where possible.
Boy I hope so. The biggest problem with SC sets is that they were basically a band-aid on the pain of selling plastic character models for as low (I gak you not here) as they have been.
That price that they've been charging for those special primaris characters? You know, the ones that don't come in SC sets or box sets because there's just no goddamn possible way that they could come up with that many combinations of intercessors and hellblasteronis and incisors and incontinents, that are 40$?
That's the price point those things have to be to make the same money that other sprue investments make at expected sales volume levels. Expected SPACE MARINE sales volume levels.
They offset that by giving you the character for free if you agree to buy a few other models bundled together. SC boxes are the reason that the techpriest dominos and necron cryptkeepers and gsc helen kelermorphs aren't 40$ a pop too.
But that kind of leads them to be not a super great thing to continue collecting, because after say, two of them, you have all of that character you need. No GSC player actually needs 2 of flagman mc"he just comes in the goddamn acolyte box you idiot whyd you pay 25$ for that guy" so the value of the kits inside need to provide you savings on top of the character being literally free.
The best way to do that is make SC boxes be the things you need dozens of kits of to make an army. Which makes them blander, but more broadly useful. And do your best to make the character that gets included in it something that you'll need many multiples of.
Kanluwen wrote: Harlequins didn't get anything in Phoenix Rising, so they still do remain.
Personally, I'm leaning towards:
-Guard+Deathwatch v Necrons
-Custodes v Daemons v Harlequins sounds plausible-ish
-AdMech+Knights v Chaos Knights+Dark Mechanicus
Hear me out on the last bit:
We've got at least one Dark Mechanicus unit right now, thanks to Blackstone Fortress. Knights, of both stripes, could use something in their list that isn't just another big walker. They keep talking about the Household Guards and the like and now Secutarii[Titan Guards] have been added into the AdMech rule lists(Skorpius allow for transporting them) but are a FW item currently. Wouldn't be shocked to see Secutarii added for the Imperial Knights+AdMech and a similar unit for the Chaos Knights+Dark Mechanicus.
Alternatively, if they go Xenarite focused like they have been for AdMech lately(Both Kill Teams and Vigilus focused on Stygies instead of Mars)?
-AdMech vs Harlequins vs Necrons
-Knights v Knights
-Custodes v Daemons
There's a bit off fluff from one of the currently released books (I think it's FnF, but dont quote me on that) regarding an entire Watch Fortress being mobilized to assist against an Ork incursion. Unsure if that points to a joint appearance in the Wolfs v Orks book, or just a bit of scene setting.
Renegade and heretics army (outisde of forgeworld) is rumored to be a thing in the future
There is a bunch of units shared by these three factions.
Each of them revolves arround a core of standard imperial platoons and armored support both from a fluff and board perspective.
Then you add specific rules for each faction and signature units and differents allies.
-gsc units
- penal legions/ ministorum fanatics
- imperial signature units and factions ( death korps, heavy artillery, super heavy tanks ...)
- renegade signature units.
- tempestus
Now you factor allies for each faction and you have three very distinct factions with their own personality.
It's important for GW if they want to optimise sales.
In fact the way gsc were handled is mostly a mistake.
20 man acolyte units as troop and best choice is dumb. Acolyte and hybrids are Packed as elite and are very pricey inside a xenos army wich is not top selling. This has been discuted many times already.
Allowing broodbrother to include acolytes, hybrids, neophytes or aberrants with differents bonus rules (improve A, reroll moral, improve ws, special ds, charge reroll etc) boost both sales and look beter on the table.
Keep full acolytes/aberrants squads as elites.
Give gsc vehicules creeds benefits for flavor. Orders on infantry are replaced by the addition of special units inside them.
For exemple 15 man Brotherhood squad with 5 acolytes inside, 2 saw and + 1A for broodbrothers. Less vesatility , more starting power is the deal.
For vehicles orders are replaced by ambush/flankind/scout and gsc stratagem like blowing, ignore damage chart, and everything tricky you can imagine.
I think GW is aware of this mistake.
Considering they could be thinking on renegades wich have the same core units there is a good chance that gsc will be handled the same way.
Core units, army wide faction rules, dataslates with differents options and minor adjustments but based on the same unit, signature units, different allies.
Militarum will be a core faction in addition of being a soup faction. Wich is perfectly ok and can boost sales up to marines level.
I am not an eldar prophet, i don't work for GW, but i think there is signs and this is the next logical step to take.
On the temporality,
From my point of view you should make renegade and heretics first.
New army is usualy top seller for few month by itself. Factoring chaos soup potential increases the odds.
Then you go for the astra militarum codex 2 or 3 month after that shuffling cards again and finaly you realese GSC codex.
If 9th edition is out this summer and codexes starts to pop out again and assuming at least 3 faction deseperatly need a new codex this will push us to summer 2021 on a realistic scale.
If you worship the hive mind next january is my best bet.
You need to factor 2 thing. Gsc is very dependent on astra militarum for broodbrothers units dataslates so both realese could be close to each other.
Tyranids with their relativly old codex are eager to get a new one wich is by ricochet an update for cult gameplay (from gw perspective).
Conclusion i hope the tome of psychic awakening about gsc will bring new and differents playstyle options because there is slight chances that we ll be stuck with it for a looong time.
captain collius wrote: Not quite. For 55 pts I can drop a unit of Deathwing Knights within 6" throw a cyclone missile launcher on for more fire support and a character with Master of Maneuver near by and I'm wrecking things.
Death Wing can only be called in by RAVENWING BIKER units, so not speeders. Outside of that, the speeder stratagem is quite weak when you consider that DA already re-roll ones army-wide and have a great. I'd be surprised if we see any speeders besides the darkshroud.
Thanks for the correction.
You will see speeders. Specifically talon masters. And probably a few others in strict ravenwing armies.
H.B.M.C. wrote: We'll get pointy Alves and a trailer for their Marine TV show. I don't expect much more beyond teasers for reveals at the next event.
I think we may see a model or two. Simply because the Sphinx and Formorian were shown off months before their release (which is still up in the air, at least from the customer side, but probably soon). Unfortunately, it may just be teclis (progress from the art and silhouette), and not what the actual range of pointy elves looks like.
And probably whichever PA special character is next, tossed out to chum the waters.
I'm just hoping the "beast" in Saga of the Beast is actually Our Lord Angron. For one thing, it'd be really nice to get a new Berzerker kit, the current one is more than 20 years old at this point.
Bob Lorgar wrote: I'm just hoping the "beast" in Saga of the Beast is actually Our Lord Angron. For one thing, it'd be really nice to get a new Berzerker kit, the current one is more than 20 years old at this point.
World Eaters already got a book. The Beast is Orks.
It’ll be Fulgrim, then beaten back by the loyalist/Big G. he drops a bag which has the Head of Ferrus Manus in it. He isn’t returned to Earth/Mars where Cawl makes a new body for him based on the new dreadnought design.
Big G gets his revenge against the brother that put him to sleep for 10K years and Ferrus Manus gets a day off from Fulgrim who speaks like Ben Stein .
Fulgrim brings new emperors children models, possibly Slaanesh followers for AOS.
Eldar get involved as it all takes place on a chrone world with one of their shrines (more Eldar troops, hopefully warp spiders with an exarch)
Nah, Russ isn't Primaris enough and he wouldn't stand for the Primaris nonsense. So sadly, odds of him coming back are extremely slim as he doesn't help GW sell Primaris models.
I honestly do not think we'll see any more Primearchs of any kind until GW needs a sales booster shot.
oni wrote: Nah, Russ isn't Primaris enough and he wouldn't stand for the Primaris nonsense. So sadly, odds of him coming back are extremely slim as he doesn't help GW sell Primaris models.
I honestly do not think we'll see any more Primearchs of any kind until GW needs a sales booster shot.
Spoiler alert: every loyalist character, from here on out, is a Primaris shill. Your best bet is to get a Gabriel Seth, who is opposed at first but then learns the "error" of his ways.
Theophony wrote: It’ll be Fulgrim, then beaten back by the loyalist/Big G. he drops a bag which has the Head of Ferrus Manus in it. He isn’t returned to Earth/Mars where Cawl makes a new body for him based on the new dreadnought design.
Big G gets his revenge against the brother that put him to sleep for 10K years and Ferrus Manus gets a day off from Fulgrim who speaks like Ben Stein .
Fulgrim brings new emperors children models, possibly Slaanesh followers for AOS.
Eldar get involved as it all takes place on a chrone world with one of their shrines (more Eldar troops, hopefully warp spiders with an exarch)
oni wrote: Nah, Russ isn't Primaris enough and he wouldn't stand for the Primaris nonsense. So sadly, odds of him coming back are extremely slim as he doesn't help GW sell Primaris models.
I honestly do not think we'll see any more Primearchs of any kind until GW needs a sales booster shot.
why would russ oppose Primaris Marines? Russ was around when Gulliman comissioned them, it's possiable Russ even KNEW about them.
Heck here's a hilarious idea. Russ comes back, a wolf lord asprouches him "gee Lemen these primaris Marines, aren't they a heretial idea of Gulliman, you should bring your brother to task" "... and just why should I do that? whose idea do you think they where? Robutes?! Don't make me laugh, a good administrator but not terriably imaginative, they where my idea I had after a conversation I had with Corax!"
oni wrote: Nah, Russ isn't Primaris enough and he wouldn't stand for the Primaris nonsense. So sadly, odds of him coming back are extremely slim as he doesn't help GW sell Primaris models.
I honestly do not think we'll see any more Primearchs of any kind until GW needs a sales booster shot.
Didnt Russ' dudes turn into werewolves and he was cool with it?
Holy gak we don't need another 'my Primarch is better than your Primarch' nor these lame Primarch fantasies. Take them to the fanfic section peeps.
Hopefully we get a PrimeORK reveal soon. Like 2 days soon.
Do we think those new Primaris models (the landspeeder etc) is going to be related to PA? I'm struggling to see it unless it's announced with SW but the pics didn't look like any SW scheme I've seen. Perhaps they come after the final PA with a new edition?
Fulgrim has been one of those teases without actually mentioning it for over a year now - likewise same with the Lion. Too much of it is fueled by community speculation without any real grounding.
I honestly doubt either will happen any time soon.
The big reveal is going to be those Grav bike land speeder things that got leaked because we k ie they were leaked and GW didnt respond because they were saving it for the LVO.
So many rumor engine pics that I though would be Fulgrim werent.
Nightlord1987 wrote: The big reveal is going to be those Grav bike land speeder things that got leaked because we k ie they were leaked and GW didnt respond because they were saving it for the LVO.
Nightlord1987 wrote: The big reveal is going to be those Grav bike land speeder things that got leaked because we k ie they were leaked and GW didnt respond because they were saving it for the LVO.
I really hope so!
If the new bikes and speeders don't get the Ravenwing keyword I'll riot
H.B.M.C. wrote: I just want fancy new Noise Marine Marines and Terminators.
So do I and I don't even play Chaos Marines. They could do some cool looking stuff. Fulgrim, Noise Marines and Terminators are a given, Lucius the Eternal due for a plastic remaster like Ahriman, Kharn, and Typhus. A bigger unit of some sort, Kakaphoni Havocs that make up a sort of band? Couple of characters- screamer lord, fleshstitcher apothecary, combat drug dealer.
Nightlord1987 wrote: The big reveal is going to be those Grav bike land speeder things that got leaked because we k ie they were leaked and GW didnt respond because they were saving it for the LVO.
I really hope so!
God I hope not. What kind of codex shenanigan would be needed to encompass the rules for them, too? It'd be a giant clusterf so close to the new codex.
Daedalus81 wrote: God I hope not. What kind of codex shenanigan would be needed to encompass the rules for them, too? It'd be a giant clusterf so close to the new codex.
They'll announce Codex: Primaris Space Marines at the same time.
Nightlord1987 wrote: The big reveal is going to be those Grav bike land speeder things that got leaked because we k ie they were leaked and GW didnt respond because they were saving it for the LVO.
I really hope so!
God I hope not. What kind of codex shenanigan would be needed to encompass the rules for them, too? It'd be a giant clusterf so close to the new codex.
rememebr GW wants to move away from all releases being tied to a codex release, and now that they put the rules for something in the package it's easy eneugh to do. they could even put the datasheet up online for free until they get around to putting the rules in some new book.
New units don't nesscarily mean a new codex these days.
especially if it's just one or two new units. Admech for instance has IIRC gotten a new HQ and a new tank without a codex.
Excluding DG the chaos legions are done. They won’t get anything else in PA so you’re looking at least until after then.
The Primaris stuff was painted in red and blue iirc, very strange for a marketing picture. I’m starting to think it’s not real. If it is the I’d be very surprised they preview it during PA because all relevant SM factions have been done except SW and the ‘leak’ models weren’t painted in a SW scheme. The only thing I can think of is a new marine faction codex aka Primaris marines that encourages different chapters banding together. It’d be an absolute joke given the support marines have received to date, but GW gonna GW.
Long story short - don’t expect any new Legion stuff (except DG) and take the Primaris ‘leak’ with a hefty grain of salt.
Regarding the Primaris Leak, it's possiable that they're showing it in a mix of various colours to highlight that "yes guys, BA,s DAs etc can take this stuff too"
BrianDavion wrote: Regarding the Primaris Leak, it's possiable that they're showing it in a mix of various colours to highlight that "yes guys, BA,s DAs etc can take this stuff too"
Maybe, but can you think of a single time when GW previewed different new units in the same picture with mixed chapters? I can't. I've never seen a preview pic of units with multiple chapters. Unless the speeder has a specific, lore-based reason for having a different paint scheme? Like librarians generally having a blue scheme, for example.
jivardi wrote: I want DG to have access to Disco Lords and Venomcrawlers.
I know it won't happen but I can wish.
just because of the name of a venomcrawler, doesn't mean that it fits DG.
The whole fluff behind the chaos stuff in shadowspear and the new start collecting box is Masters of Possessions creating weird constructs and infusing them with warp energy. Venom Crawler and Greater Possessed are described as their pet projects. The most powerful of them head entire corrupted manufactorums which chum out daemon engines by the masses.
... which is one major defining aspect of the Death Guard, calling an entire planet their own, littered with exactly such faculties that Masters of Possessions strive to build/lead. While there are arguments for not having most of the other new stuff, creating daemon engines is one of the big parts of DG, so there really is no reason why they shouldn't have Masters of Possession, Greater Possessed and Venom Crawlers.
Not Online!!! wrote: Also is the betting pool still open for the next release or are we sure that it will be primaris?
Do GW release anything else? They were effectively forced to do Sisters. They seem in no rush to deliver anything that isn't in power armour and the historic patterns of releases speak for themselves.
An Actual Englishman wrote: Excluding DG the chaos legions are done. They won’t get anything else in PA so you’re looking at least until after then.
The Primaris stuff was painted in red and blue iirc, very strange for a marketing picture. I’m starting to think it’s not real. If it is the I’d be very surprised they preview it during PA because all relevant SM factions have been done except SW and the ‘leak’ models weren’t painted in a SW scheme. The only thing I can think of is a new marine faction codex aka Primaris marines that encourages different chapters banding together. It’d be an absolute joke given the support marines have received to date, but GW gonna GW.
Long story short - don’t expect any new Legion stuff (except DG) and take the Primaris ‘leak’ with a hefty grain of salt.
Which is why even with the good stuff faith and fury felt so disappointing. Because it didn't fix legion traits and we know we won't be getting another chance at that for a while.
Not Online!!! wrote: Also is the betting pool still open for the next release or are we sure that it will be primaris?
Do GW release anything else? They were effectively forced to do Sisters. They seem in no rush to deliver anything that isn't in power armour and the historic patterns of releases speak for themselves.
Tau got shadow sun so there's still hope for a new Ghazgul.
Not Online!!! wrote: Also is the betting pool still open for the next release or are we sure that it will be primaris?
Do GW release anything else? They were effectively forced to do Sisters. They seem in no rush to deliver anything that isn't in power armour and the historic patterns of releases speak for themselves.
I mostly wanted to meme a Traitor Guard suggestion in there, and imagine, they could still release a lieutnant that way
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Tau got shadow sun so there's still hope for a new Ghazgul.
As a former orkboy, i'd damn well hope so, but better yet, in an actual kit for a megaarmor warboss.
Given that there are no Death Guard Lords Discordant, and no Death Guard Chaos Lords/Sorcerers, and as long as GW remains deathly afraid of third party bitzmakers, we will never see these units get rules in the Codices you mentioned.
Tau got shadow sun so there's still hope for a new Ghazgul.
As a former orkboy, i'd damn well hope so, but better yet, in an actual kit for a megaarmor warboss.
Now don't you go breaking my Orky heart boys! Hope is the first step to what again?
E - on the whole 'DG getting stuff' discussion - I think the main argument GW will put forward for NOT giving them Venomcrawlers, MoP, Gtr Possessed and/or Chaos Lords is to keep the range distinct. It's the curse of splitting off and becoming your own codex - you get a new range with tons of new models (awesome) but you lose access to some of the traditional codex units (not as awesome). From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?
Tau got shadow sun so there's still hope for a new Ghazgul.
As a former orkboy, i'd damn well hope so, but better yet, in an actual kit for a megaarmor warboss.
Now don't you go breaking my Orky heart boys! Hope is the first step to what again?
E - on the whole 'DG getting stuff' discussion - I think the main argument GW will put forward for NOT giving them Venomcrawlers, MoP, Gtr Possessed and/or Chaos Lords is to keep the range distinct. It's the curse of splitting off and becoming your own codex - you get a new range with tons of new models (awesome) but you lose access to some of the traditional codex units (not as awesome). From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?
Likewise if the masters of possession are expert daemon engine builders, wouldn't they be busy crafting blight drones and plague burst crawlers for everyone else? I agree that they need to be kept distinct from chaos marines and the further they drive that wedge in by excluding units, the better imo.
This is dangerously close to off topic though so to pull it back, if we follow the assumption of a book a month and historically new editions launch late May - July, at most we should expect another 2-3 psychic awakening if there were to be a new edition on the cards?
From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?
Nope, they do not command (= no buffing troops), shoot at all nor move anywhere after teleporting in. They only smash things, if they manage to catch them. Fluffwise they are one type of accomplished officers, in this case distinguished by being angry smashers, whereas other kinds get other titles... which we cannot represent because the basic Lord is feeble and for reasons doesn't even have access to a manreaper for style.
An Actual Englishman wrote: From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?
Yes, but it's a distinction without meaning.
The book has both Lords of Contagion and Chaos Lords. What would have made far more sense is to simply have a single "Lord of Contagion" entry that has access to both the Manreaper and Plaguereaper, as well as all the regular weapons a Terminator Lord could get (combi-weapons, fist/chainfist/axe/lightning claws/etc.). But, because the Chaos Lord model isn't a specific Death Guard Chaos Lord model, he gets a separate entry and none of the Death Guard specific rules. This applies to the Terminator Sorcerer as well. Nothing stopped them from putting "Malignant Plaguecaster in Terminator Armour" as an entry in the Codex, and letting you use the Termy Sorc model to rep him... except it's not actually a Plaguecaster in Terminator Armour, so it gets no rules.
GW's fear of 3rd parties has made them less creative and stifled modelling opportunities. It's asinine and so incredibly frustrating.
I'd expect 9th to be a September release, assuming such a thing exists. I'd also expect it to very Soul Wars-y, that being just an update to the existing rules rather than a full-on reset.
And I think that the Psychic Awakening books are 100% meant to get every army updated prior to the launch of 9th, which certainly would explain their accelerated release date.
Tau got shadow sun so there's still hope for a new Ghazgul.
As a former orkboy, i'd damn well hope so, but better yet, in an actual kit for a megaarmor warboss.
Now don't you go breaking my Orky heart boys! Hope is the first step to what again?
E - on the whole 'DG getting stuff' discussion - I think the main argument GW will put forward for NOT giving them Venomcrawlers, MoP, Gtr Possessed and/or Chaos Lords is to keep the range distinct. It's the curse of splitting off and becoming your own codex - you get a new range with tons of new models (awesome) but you lose access to some of the traditional codex units (not as awesome). From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?
Likewise if the masters of possession are expert daemon engine builders, wouldn't they be busy crafting blight drones and plague burst crawlers for everyone else? I agree that they need to be kept distinct from chaos marines and the further they drive that wedge in by excluding units, the better imo.
This is dangerously close to off topic though so to pull it back, if we follow the assumption of a book a month and historically new editions launch late May - July, at most we should expect another 2-3 psychic awakening if there were to be a new edition on the cards?
actually they aren't, they are expert fleshcrafters, the engines are mostly done by warpsmiths, the two branches work with one another but they have fundamental doctrinal issues with one another, e.g. see shadowspear booklet.
An Actual Englishman wrote: From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?
To put it in ork terms, the warboss and the wartrike have more in common than a Lord of Corruption and a Chaos Lord.
Fluff wise, Death Guard have three kinds of lords, Lords of Contagions carry mantles bestowed on them by Mortarion and are fighters that walk into battle (similar to the Emperor's Champion or Master of Executions), Lord of Poxes are in charge of air support and spreading diseases (no model support) and Lords of Virulence which are leading troops and artillery into battle, which would be represented by Chaos Lords.
On the battlefield, Lord of Corruptions are melee beatsticks without any ranged weapons (not even grenades), 4" movement and halved advances. It's only use is deep striking it into the enemy army as distraction carnifex and hope you make that 9" charge without any help. It also has an aura that does squat 50% of the time and is out of range of enemy models the other 50%.
Chaos Lords, on the other hand, provide all our plasma and daemon engines with re-rolls of one and usually get the Arch-Contaminator warlord trait to re-roll to wound rolls for plague weapons.
What most DG players are complaining about that T5/DR should be the baseline for all Death Guard space marines. Plague Marines, all five elite characters, both kinds of terminators, plaguecaster, LoC have it. Just the sorcerer, the chaos lord and possessed don't, which makes zero sense fluff-wise and surprising almost everyone you play against.
Obviously such an improvement isn't for free, but then again, the impact would be minimal. Even a stratagem that gives an infantry unit +1T and DR for CP would be fine.
Tau got shadow sun so there's still hope for a new Ghazgul.
As a former orkboy, i'd damn well hope so, but better yet, in an actual kit for a megaarmor warboss.
Now don't you go breaking my Orky heart boys! Hope is the first step to what again?
E - on the whole 'DG getting stuff' discussion - I think the main argument GW will put forward for NOT giving them Venomcrawlers, MoP, Gtr Possessed and/or Chaos Lords is to keep the range distinct. It's the curse of splitting off and becoming your own codex - you get a new range with tons of new models (awesome) but you lose access to some of the traditional codex units (not as awesome). From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?
Likewise if the masters of possession are expert daemon engine builders, wouldn't they be busy crafting blight drones and plague burst crawlers for everyone else? I agree that they need to be kept distinct from chaos marines and the further they drive that wedge in by excluding units, the better imo.
This is dangerously close to off topic though so to pull it back, if we follow the assumption of a book a month and historically new editions launch late May - July, at most we should expect another 2-3 psychic awakening if there were to be a new edition on the cards?
actually they aren't, they are expert fleshcrafters, the engines are mostly done by warpsmiths, the two branches work with one another but they have fundamental doctrinal issues with one another, e.g. see shadowspear booklet.
Don't suppose you want to elaborate on these fundamental doctrinal issues in the Background forum?
An Actual Englishman wrote: From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?
Yes, but it's a distinction without meaning.
The book has both Lords of Contagion and Chaos Lords. What would have made far more sense is to simply have a single "Lord of Contagion" entry that has access to both the Manreaper and Plaguereaper, as well as all the regular weapons a Terminator Lord could get (combi-weapons, fist/chainfist/axe/lightning claws/etc.). But, because the Chaos Lord model isn't a specific Death Guard Chaos Lord model, he gets a separate entry and none of the Death Guard specific rules. This applies to the Terminator Sorcerer as well. Nothing stopped them from putting "Malignant Plaguecaster in Terminator Armour" as an entry in the Codex, and letting you use the Termy Sorc model to rep him... except it's not actually a Plaguecaster in Terminator Armour, so it gets no rules.
GW's fear of 3rd parties has made them less creative and stifled modelling opportunities. It's asinine and so incredibly frustrating.
First, that's a false analogy, as there is both a sorcerer and a malignant plague caster in Codex: Death Guard.
Second, Thousand Sons sorcerer has "favor of tzeench" as a special rule and an Inferno Pistol, despite use the same model as everyone, how is that not a problem, but +1T and DR is?
So no, chapter house has nothing to do with this.
There are no marines in the Death Guard from outside the legion. Every single one of them should have a plague marine statline. In addition, the Death Guard value toughness as one of their highest qualities. Someone less tough than rank&file marines would never have been elevated into a position of power.
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Not Online!!! wrote: actually they aren't, they are expert fleshcrafters, the engines are mostly done by warpsmiths, the two branches work with one another but they have fundamental doctrinal issues with one another, e.g. see shadowspear booklet.
Which makes them an even better fit for Death Guard (who don't have warpsmiths)?
No it's not. I'm not even sure I'd call what I said an analogy in the first place.
Jidmah wrote: ... as there is both a sorcerer and a malignant plague caster in Codex: Death Guard.
I know. I said as much. The same thing applies. There shouldn't be a "Chaos Sorcerer" and a "Terminator Sorcerer" in the Death Guard book that don't get Death Guard rules. The very notion is ludicrous and only comes about because this model, and this model, and this model aren't specific "Death Guard" miniatures, so they get treated like second class citizens in their own Codex.
Jidmah wrote: So no, chapter house has nothing to do with this.
CHS has everything to do with this. It has coloured GW's miniatures and game design since it occurred. It's why we have so many redundant unit entries in Codices, as Codices now have to have specific entries for specific miniatures (Captain in Armour X, Captain in Armour Y, Captain in Armour Z, and so on). It's why their miniatures are less and less modular and more monopose. It's the reason why everything has triple- or quadruple-barrelled Adjective Nounverb names these days. Everything they do stems from the abject terror 3rd party bitz makers inject into their core.
Jidmah wrote: There are no marines in the Death Guard from outside the legion. Every single one of them should have a plague marine statline.
Except they don't. A small group of them are just regular CSMs stuck in the Death Guard Codex because they don't have specific Death Guard minis.
Technically there is a 1kSons sorcerer model that is specifically a 1kSons sorcerer model out of the Exalted Sorcerer box. If you go to the GW webstore they don't include a standard CSM sorcerer just the exalted box.
So unlike the DG, 1kSons actually have a specific model your supposed to use which is why their regular sorcerer gets to be in the club.
But I also don't think the design philosophy of the DG was continued much past them. With needing a specific model to get specific rules. Because everything in the DG book should get DR without paying points or needing a specific DG themed model(cites new spaces marines).
It's probably not related to PA but apparently a second Custodes Codex is on the way. Shipping containers have all but confirmed this.
Interesting stuff about the DG but let's leave the off topic conversation away from here for now. Other topics can be made to discuss what DG should/shouldn't have access to and their statline. To try and bring it slightly on topic - perhaps the next PA will allow DG players to take a Chaos Lord with DR and T5 via a relic or stratagem upgrade (I think Jid referenced this earlier also)? That's probably all that needs to be said at this stage.
Asmodai wrote: Warhammer Community's Instagram put up a picture of some Chaos Knights a couple hours ago:
At 3 factions per book and one book per month, that means:
March = PA6
April = PA7
May = PA8
June = PA9
Adepticon (late March) would be the earliest I'd expect them to confirm a new edition.
Not sure on the factions.
Did Deathwatch have a faction symbol in the preview article?
Pretty sure Inquisition aren't going to be in a PA.
Sisters are considered included in FnF due to their codex + new range of models that dropped in the same month I think.
Harlequins may not be getting anything.
An Actual Englishman wrote: It's probably not related to PA but apparently a second Custodes Codex is on the way. Shipping containers have all but confirmed this.
Adeptus Titanicus releases perhaps? Chaos Knights for 40k have been and now gone and we don't think they're in the next PA.
Could very well be. They already have the digital assets to do these and we know Chaos titans are on the roadmap, so Knights would also make a lot of sense.
Not sure on the factions.
Did Deathwatch have a faction symbol in the preview article?
Pretty sure Inquisition aren't going to be in a PA.
Sisters are considered included in FnF due to their codex + new range of models that dropped in the same month I think.
Harlequins may not be getting anything.
I saw Inquisition mentioned by someone earlier in this thread, but checking the original faction list it's probably a mixup with Deathwatch whose symbol looks like the Inquisition's.
Harlequins were included in the original list and haven't received any rules yet.
Sisters were included in the original list but weren't listed in new faction rules for PA2:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/BloodandGlory-Nov02-Content4erdgsfxbvc.jpg
GW probably didn't want to give them PA stuff alongside the codex release to avoid accusations of DLC. They'll get their DLC a few months later instead!
Makes sense that Custodes would get a codex 2.0 since half their army isn't in their original codex.
But based on the power level that GW is pushing 8th edition to I can't believe this will be good for the game.
I'm excited about the rumors for dark mechanicus which seems like it would be a good lead into traitor guard which would be really cool to see on the table.
Tau got shadow sun so there's still hope for a new Ghazgul.
As a former orkboy, i'd damn well hope so, but better yet, in an actual kit for a megaarmor warboss.
Yeah I don't know why there's so much focus on wanting factions to get one specific character, rather than more varied generic options. Don't people like using their imaginations?
The same sources that have dug up all this info about Custodes 2 and AoS giants etc have found the next Psychic Awakening book to be called ‘Engine War’ so maybe the Chaos Knights have something to do with that. Knights vs Chaos Knights or something.
ImAGeek wrote: The same sources that have dug up all this info about Custodes 2 and AoS giants etc have found the next Psychic Awakening book to be called ‘Engine War’ so maybe the Chaos Knights have something to do with that. Knights vs Chaos Knights or something.
It's barely been two years since the original codex, so I wonder if they'll do the same as with the CSM one and give people the option to either use their old book plus Psychic Awakening, or the new book by itself.
An Actual Englishman wrote: It's probably not related to PA but apparently a second Custodes Codex is on the way. Shipping containers have all but confirmed this.
Do you have a source on that?
It's Youtube so, there is that but here's where I heard it;
Tau got shadow sun so there's still hope for a new Ghazgul.
As a former orkboy, i'd damn well hope so, but better yet, in an actual kit for a megaarmor warboss.
Yeah I don't know why there's so much focus on wanting factions to get one specific character, rather than more varied generic options. Don't people like using their imaginations?
The expectation is that the kit would build both Thraka and a MAWarboss.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Well, there was also the pixelated picture of the Primaris Speeder/Bikes.
Possibly it was a hoax. If not, I think there is a good chance we see them tonight.
If they're not due until the summer GW may well just ignore them like the did when Mortarion's pic leaked many months early.
Pics with mixed marine factions like that tend to be the sort of thing you see in main rulebooks rather than codexes. My money is on Adepticon for news on this.
ImAGeek wrote: The same sources that have dug up all this info about Custodes 2 and AoS giants etc have found the next Psychic Awakening book to be called ‘Engine War’ so maybe the Chaos Knights have something to do with that. Knights vs Chaos Knights or something.
I'd guess AdMech is in there too. They previewed the flyer in detail at the start of the year, so we know it's coming soon.
Would make sense, I just dunno what else would be on the Chaos side. AdMech and Knights vs just Chaos Knights doesn’t feel right. If Dark Mech were a thing it would work nicely but alas they aren’t.
ImAGeek wrote: The same sources that have dug up all this info about Custodes 2 and AoS giants etc have found the next Psychic Awakening book to be called ‘Engine War’ so maybe the Chaos Knights have something to do with that. Knights vs Chaos Knights or something.
I'd guess AdMech is in there too. They previewed the flyer in detail at the start of the year, so we know it's coming soon.
Would make sense, I just dunno what else would be on the Chaos side. AdMech and Knights vs just Chaos Knights doesn’t feel right. If Dark Mech were a thing it would work nicely but alas they aren’t.
Just add in a rule that says you can change Imperium to Chaos and Admech to Dark Mechanicus for all non unique units
ImAGeek wrote: The same sources that have dug up all this info about Custodes 2 and AoS giants etc have found the next Psychic Awakening book to be called ‘Engine War’ so maybe the Chaos Knights have something to do with that. Knights vs Chaos Knights or something.
I'd guess AdMech is in there too. They previewed the flyer in detail at the start of the year, so we know it's coming soon.
Would make sense, I just dunno what else would be on the Chaos side. AdMech and Knights vs just Chaos Knights doesn’t feel right. If Dark Mech were a thing it would work nicely but alas they aren’t.
ImAGeek wrote: The same sources that have dug up all this info about Custodes 2 and AoS giants etc have found the next Psychic Awakening book to be called ‘Engine War’ so maybe the Chaos Knights have something to do with that. Knights vs Chaos Knights or something.
I'd guess AdMech is in there too. They previewed the flyer in detail at the start of the year, so we know it's coming soon.
Would make sense, I just dunno what else would be on the Chaos side. AdMech and Knights vs just Chaos Knights doesn’t feel right. If Dark Mech were a thing it would work nicely but alas they aren’t.
Traitor Guard?
I just don’t see them introducing something that new in one of these books, based on the previous ones.
ImAGeek wrote: The same sources that have dug up all this info about Custodes 2 and AoS giants etc have found the next Psychic Awakening book to be called ‘Engine War’ so maybe the Chaos Knights have something to do with that. Knights vs Chaos Knights or something.
I'd guess AdMech is in there too. They previewed the flyer in detail at the start of the year, so we know it's coming soon.
Wonder if engine war refers to world engines, because that could be a fun PA. A three way between chaos knights, ad mech/imperial knights, and necrons.
ImAGeek wrote: The same sources that have dug up all this info about Custodes 2 and AoS giants etc have found the next Psychic Awakening book to be called ‘Engine War’ so maybe the Chaos Knights have something to do with that. Knights vs Chaos Knights or something.
I'd guess AdMech is in there too. They previewed the flyer in detail at the start of the year, so we know it's coming soon.
Would make sense, I just dunno what else would be on the Chaos side. AdMech and Knights vs just Chaos Knights doesn’t feel right. If Dark Mech were a thing it would work nicely but alas they aren’t.
H.B.M.C. wrote: CHS has everything to do with this. It has coloured GW's miniatures and game design since it occurred. It's why we have so many redundant unit entries in Codices, as Codices now have to have specific entries for specific miniatures (Captain in Armour X, Captain in Armour Y, Captain in Armour Z, and so on). It's why their miniatures are less and less modular and more monopose. It's the reason why everything has triple- or quadruple-barrelled Adjective Nounverb names these days. Everything they do stems from the abject terror 3rd party bitz makers inject into their core.
There's irony in the fact that GW lost so many of their claims in the Chapterhouse case, but their response to it means that gamers will have occasion to curse the name of Chapterhouse Studios as long as this current policy endures. And of course, irony of ironies, is that Chapterhouse itself is long gone, their models and those conversion bitz GW so feared near-totally forgotten by now.
An Actual Englishman wrote: It's probably not related to PA but apparently a second Custodes Codex is on the way. Shipping containers have all but confirmed this.
Do you have a source on that?
Appears to just be a reprint of the current edition as the quantity is too low and it has the same product number as the existing codex.
H.B.M.C. wrote: CHS has everything to do with this. It has coloured GW's miniatures and game design since it occurred. It's why we have so many redundant unit entries in Codices, as Codices now have to have specific entries for specific miniatures (Captain in Armour X, Captain in Armour Y, Captain in Armour Z, and so on). It's why their miniatures are less and less modular and more monopose. It's the reason why everything has triple- or quadruple-barrelled Adjective Nounverb names these days. Everything they do stems from the abject terror 3rd party bitz makers inject into their core.
There's irony in the fact that GW lost so many of their claims in the Chapterhouse case, but their response to it means that gamers will have occasion to curse the name of Chapterhouse Studios as long as this current policy endures. And of course, irony of ironies, is that Chapterhouse itself is long gone, their models and those conversion bitz GW so feared near-totally forgotten by now.
You are, of course, correct - and once again, ultimately, it was us, the customers, who lost in the end...
It's a pity. I actually tried getting my hands on the Chapterhouse Stormraven extension kit for a while, since that actually made the model a lot better looking to my eyes, but by that time the company was already out of business
Agamemnon2 wrote: It's a pity. I actually tried getting my hands on the Chapterhouse Stormraven extension kit for a while, since that actually made the model a lot better looking to my eyes, but by that time the company was already out of business
Not to trigger you but I don't think that kit gets the accolades it deserves and it's the first time I've seen it mentioned in years. It took what I consider to be an ugly design and let me convert it into a mini-thunderhawk. I love that kit!
Knights/chaos knights can probably be skipped as a faction as they are just 3 models with different names to create the illusion of unit choice. A minor faction that harlequins even has way more units than Knights so I hope they don’t use up too much time on either.
They already have so many rules for so few models.
H.B.M.C. wrote: CHS has everything to do with this. It has coloured GW's miniatures and game design since it occurred. It's why we have so many redundant unit entries in Codices, as Codices now have to have specific entries for specific miniatures (Captain in Armour X, Captain in Armour Y, Captain in Armour Z, and so on). It's why their miniatures are less and less modular and more monopose. It's the reason why everything has triple- or quadruple-barrelled Adjective Nounverb names these days. Everything they do stems from the abject terror 3rd party bitz makers inject into their core.
There's irony in the fact that GW lost so many of their claims in the Chapterhouse case, but their response to it means that gamers will have occasion to curse the name of Chapterhouse Studios as long as this current policy endures. And of course, irony of ironies, is that Chapterhouse itself is long gone, their models and those conversion bitz GW so feared near-totally forgotten by now.
That last isn't irony. That was the point.
Bullying small competitors out of existence with petty legal tactics is exactly why they did that kind of thing.
Kirasu wrote: Knights/chaos knights can probably be skipped as a faction as they are just 3 models with different names to create the illusion of unit choice. A minor faction that harlequins even has way more units than Knights so I hope they don’t use up too much time on either.
They already have so many rules for so few models.
But there are more people out there playing knights than harlequins as a guess, so they definitely deserve a look in.
Let's end the Chapter House discussion there, shall we? There's only hours now until LVO reveals and possible new PA info. Is there any speculation related to that?
Kirasu wrote: Knights/chaos knights can probably be skipped as a faction as they are just 3 models with different names to create the illusion of unit choice. A minor faction that harlequins even has way more units than Knights so I hope they don’t use up too much time on either.
They already have so many rules for so few models.
by your logic the only army that should get anything is space marines because they already have the most stuff. an army whose options are kinda bare is a good canidate for expansion
Kirasu wrote: Knights/chaos knights can probably be skipped as a faction as they are just 3 models with different names to create the illusion of unit choice. A minor faction that harlequins even has way more units than Knights so I hope they don’t use up too much time on either.
They already have so many rules for so few models.
by your logic the only army that should get anything is space marines because they already have the most stuff. an army whose options are kinda bare is a good canidate for expansion
Agreed, the Knights factions could easily by expanding their range to include the actual units they have in the lore - Harlequins by bringing back the units and characters in the lore and which they had in their older codexes......
Its not their fault Gw constanty lavishes new models on a single Faction and its myraid sub-factions to the expense of everyone else.
Kirasu wrote: Knights/chaos knights can probably be skipped as a faction as they are just 3 models with different names to create the illusion of unit choice. A minor faction that harlequins even has way more units than Knights so I hope they don’t use up too much time on either.
They already have so many rules for so few models.
by your logic the only army that should get anything is space marines because they already have the most stuff. an army whose options are kinda bare is a good canidate for expansion
Agreed, the Knights factions could easily by expanding their range to include the actual units they have in the lore - Harlequins by bringing back the units and characters in the lore and which they had in their older codexes......
Knights can also be expanded simply with new faction rules etc. for example, right now we have rules to run a single knight as a freeblade, or run a house with options from a list of selections, what about a "free blade lance"?
likewise for chaos knights, right now we've really only got two options, they could easily give us rules for god dedicated groups of chaos knight houses etc.
Chaos Knights should never been a codex to begin with. That codex is an embarrassing piece of material as bad as the Legion of the Damned "codex" that came out in 6th. In reality there should've just been like 10 or so extra pages in the regular Imperial Knights codex for minor fluff and how to switch/add keywords to get Chaos Knights. Let them keep the same households and Freeblade garbage and relics/strats, just make it so they're Chaos instead.
Now that would be more convenient and make more sense than how they did it now.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Chaos Knights should never been a codex to begin with. That codex is an embarrassing piece of material as bad as the Legion of the Damned "codex" that came out in 6th. In reality there should've just been like 10 or so extra pages in the regular Imperial Knights codex for minor fluff and how to switch/add keywords to get Chaos Knights. Let them keep the same households and Freeblade garbage and relics/strats, just make it so they're Chaos instead.
Now that would be more convenient and make more sense than how they did it now.
except many many people had been ASKING for chaos knights, so clearly you're view is in the minority
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Chaos Knights should never been a codex to begin with. That codex is an embarrassing piece of material as bad as the Legion of the Damned "codex" that came out in 6th. In reality there should've just been like 10 or so extra pages in the regular Imperial Knights codex for minor fluff and how to switch/add keywords to get Chaos Knights. Let them keep the same households and Freeblade garbage and relics/strats, just make it so they're Chaos instead.
Now that would be more convenient and make more sense than how they did it now.
except many many people had been ASKING for chaos knights, so clearly you're view is in the minority
Yea I can envision the outrage from CK players about how "GW phoned in their army as a footnote to Imperium".
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Chaos Knights should never been a codex to begin with. That codex is an embarrassing piece of material as bad as the Legion of the Damned "codex" that came out in 6th. In reality there should've just been like 10 or so extra pages in the regular Imperial Knights codex for minor fluff and how to switch/add keywords to get Chaos Knights. Let them keep the same households and Freeblade garbage and relics/strats, just make it so they're Chaos instead.
Now that would be more convenient and make more sense than how they did it now.
Agreed.
Chaos knights, LotD, and all the other codexes with 1-3 units should not exist as codexes
I have zero problems with the units or factions existing. With dataslates in boxes, online, or WD we can get the rules we need to play them. Fluff can be found online, or BL, or WD. But the 30-50 bucks for a book to field one thing is crazy. Wait until you can have something to stick in every slot in the FOC, with a spare option or two before you graduate into a full codex. With GW being more free with random mini drops, rather then waiting for big splash waves, we don’t need a book for everything. Or stick them in campaign/compilation/CA books.
But the mono-unit codexes from 7th were an abomination.
ImAGeek wrote: The same sources that have dug up all this info about Custodes 2 and AoS giants etc have found the next Psychic Awakening book to be called ‘Engine War’ so maybe the Chaos Knights have something to do with that. Knights vs Chaos Knights or something.
I'd guess AdMech is in there too. They previewed the flyer in detail at the start of the year, so we know it's coming soon.
Would make sense, I just dunno what else would be on the Chaos side. AdMech and Knights vs just Chaos Knights doesn’t feel right. If Dark Mech were a thing it would work nicely but alas they aren’t.
safe bet is that the only new models will be admechs...
Well as a deamon player, may be I will be spared more Nurgle stuff,
which will be a good thing.
ImAGeek wrote: The same sources that have dug up all this info about Custodes 2 and AoS giants etc have found the next Psychic Awakening book to be called ‘Engine War’ so maybe the Chaos Knights have something to do with that. Knights vs Chaos Knights or something.
I'd guess AdMech is in there too. They previewed the flyer in detail at the start of the year, so we know it's coming soon.
Would make sense, I just dunno what else would be on the Chaos side. AdMech and Knights vs just Chaos Knights doesn’t feel right. If Dark Mech were a thing it would work nicely but alas they aren’t.
Daemons?
Spot on.
A good guess!
New Ghaz = new rules for Ghaz? Models looks beast.
ImAGeek wrote: The same sources that have dug up all this info about Custodes 2 and AoS giants etc have found the next Psychic Awakening book to be called ‘Engine War’ so maybe the Chaos Knights have something to do with that. Knights vs Chaos Knights or something.
I'd guess AdMech is in there too. They previewed the flyer in detail at the start of the year, so we know it's coming soon.
Would make sense, I just dunno what else would be on the Chaos side. AdMech and Knights vs just Chaos Knights doesn’t feel right. If Dark Mech were a thing it would work nicely but alas they aren’t.
Daemons?
Spot on.
A good guess!
New Ghaz = new rules for Ghaz? Models looks beast.
pretty sure GW's always put out new rules for a character when they've resculpted him
mortar_crew wrote: safe bet is that the only new models will be admechs...
Well as a deamon player, may be I will be spared more Nurgle stuff,
which will be a good thing.
My concern is daemons will see far less attention than they need because of 4 factions being in there.
mortar_crew wrote: safe bet is that the only new models will be admechs...
Well as a deamon player, may be I will be spared more Nurgle stuff,
which will be a good thing.
My concern is daemons will see far less attention than they need because of 4 factions being in there.
GW's apparently giving factions attention based on performance, given how well knights have performed I don't expect them to get tooo much.
on the other hand with a name like engine war well..
mortar_crew wrote: safe bet is that the only new models will be admechs...
Well as a deamon player, may be I will be spared more Nurgle stuff,
which will be a good thing.
My concern is daemons will see far less attention than they need because of 4 factions being in there.
GW's apparently giving factions attention based on performance, given how well knights have performed I don't expect them to get tooo much.
on the other hand with a name like engine war well..
I would love if they went with that theme and either released more adeptus titanicus stuff at the same time, or updated and better rules for gw titans alongside.
H.B.M.C. wrote: CHS has everything to do with this. It has coloured GW's miniatures and game design since it occurred. It's why we have so many redundant unit entries in Codices, as Codices now have to have specific entries for specific miniatures (Captain in Armour X, Captain in Armour Y, Captain in Armour Z, and so on). It's why their miniatures are less and less modular and more monopose. It's the reason why everything has triple- or quadruple-barrelled Adjective Nounverb names these days. Everything they do stems from the abject terror 3rd party bitz makers inject into their core.
There's irony in the fact that GW lost so many of their claims in the Chapterhouse case, but their response to it means that gamers will have occasion to curse the name of Chapterhouse Studios as long as this current policy endures. And of course, irony of ironies, is that Chapterhouse itself is long gone, their models and those conversion bitz GW so feared near-totally forgotten by now.
And the 3rd parties still keep making alternative bits. Changing names etc doesn't stop that one. Doing product that sells so little nobody wants to make 3rd party bits does
Dudeface wrote: My concern is daemons will see far less attention than they need because of 4 factions being in there.
Maybe they'll get four pages of name generators - one for each Chaos God!!!
One (one!) ne model for each God (herald for example) would be great, but there will be none probably.
If at least rule wise deamonic mounts could make a comeback it would be something, but again...
They went from two factions per book to three, and in the future there will be four. Less pages for each faction, meaning less new rules. Also, as a daemon player, i have to pay for rules from other factions which i dont want. Thanks, GW.
p5freak wrote: They went from two factions per book to three, and in the future there will be four. Less pages for each faction, meaning less new rules. Also, as a daemon player, i have to pay for rules from other factions which i dont want. Thanks, GW.
So true.
Same here... It was difficult enough to
have deamon from other Gods in the same book (kidding)...
Probably seen by almost all but not posted as far I have seen.
Spoiler:
Serberys Sulphurhounds:
Serberys Raiders:
Pteraxii:
I actually did though that AdMech could had use for new fast attack unit(s). Although I did not though of fire breathing cyberhorses or steampunk Batmen
bananathug wrote: Makes sense that Custodes would get a codex 2.0 since half their army isn't in their original codex.
So what PLASTIC stuff isn't in original codex? Any FW resin units wont be in 2.0 codex period.
Probably not. But fw units will be getting new rules soon.
indeed, I hope this means FW armires (like DKK) get codex level rules.
And r&h! There's the traitor guard rumour right there.
actually I hope R&H DOESN'T get that level of support specificly because I hope it means we get plastic traitor guard instead
Well of course they'll be plastic. Fw doesn't make r&h models anymore, not even the conversion kits. But we do have plastic traitor guard from bf. (And a totally awesome zoat now too).
