Hello everyone!

Is anyone else on Dakka, like me, hyped for the new season of Game of Thrones? If so, what are you expecting this season?

For book fans - which cut characters will you miss most?

What do wish to happen, and more on topic...who will die this Season?

Depends on how Martin writes his last two books. If he writes his last two books. Which seems HBO will complete his last two "books" for him..

I see Jon living being the Red Lady is there
Stannis coming down south and take King's Landing
Walkers crashing the Wall and Jon delaying action to save Stannis butt from getting corn cobbed
Denaries coming across the pond to save everyone from the Walkers
Stannis dies
Jaimie kills Cersi
The Church goes to War/Crusade
Tyrion goes into Denaries Council
Dragons are controlled by Denaries effectively. She might have to bite an ear or two
Flint sails into Castle Rock and Levels IT like Charleston SC........wait...

We just can't wait. And we already know what happens i.e. read the books.

Out of curiosity Sigvatr,( since I'm waiting for the confirmation to that programme, you checked my essays for) is GoT a big thing in Germany? Do lots of people watch it? And btw-do you watch it in English, or dubbed?

I expect a asteroid hitting the planet killing everyone (finally) and no one would be surprised.

Overall I am really excited for his next book and season 5.

In the previous thread, spoilers from the book that have not happened yet were put in spoiler boxes to differentiate between spoilers from "This week's Show," for example.

That's all I have to add to this thread as I want nothing spoiled and am not reading gak.

This is just a friendly reminder to keep people from getting upset at you.

Hence the reason why I put a big SPOILERS next to the title of the thread. And don't worry, I'll be careful to use spoiler boxes.

Remember it was confirmed that season 5 will go off script, a bit like Walking Dead, metaplot will be similar but different characters will have very different fates to the books.

Expect to see book surviving characters die, and see doomed characters live.

Where will they fit Aegon, Euron, Vicarion... in (if they won't, the bastards...)

I don't want this ending in Dany getting the Iron Throne, because frankly I don't like her, and she's not the best of rulers - in a way she's very much like Robert - "winning is not the same as ruling".

I hope they keep Ser Barristan alive, and maybe get rid of Meryn Trant, never liked him that much.

Also, Jaime in the Riverlands anyone? :(

Going from the previews, it looks like Sansa is going to take the place of

I have a lot of faith in the TV show. Books 4 and 5 were really not that good, to be honest. However the show seems to have picked up on the shortcomings so far, so I am hoping the writers can continue to do the same.

I can foresee an extended role for Tyrion, compared to what he had in the 4th and 5th books.

As for Doomed characters living/unexpced characters dying, I can sorta see this. Only with Minor characters though. We've seen a few minor characters already omitted.

That Sansa angle would work for me. Sansa has always been a pretty terrible character, she can only improve.

 Artorias the Abysswalker wrote:
Out of curiosity Sigvatr,( since I'm waiting for the confirmation to that programme, you checked my essays for) is GoT a big thing in Germany? Do lots of people watch it? And btw-do you watch it in English, or dubbed?

It's a huge thing in Germany, but I assume that the books are more popular than in the US whereas the series is a bit less popular due to it only being available at premium services (that cost at least 35€ (!!!) per month). Most people watch it on illegal-ish online streaming sites. My wife and I have a permanent US VPN with a Netflix subscription, but since it's not available via Netflix...we watch it via one of said premium services, in English of course, no dubs. A lot of Germans watch it in English as German synchronizations tend to be on the horrible end of things.

Dany suuuuuuucks. She'd be the worst ruler of all times if she got the Iron Throne. Both of us cheer for Tyrion, of course. Daenarys on the Iron Throne with Tyrion actually ruling? Yes, please.

Episodes 1-4 were leaked online, and maybe 5 and/or 6 as well.

This changes very little about the method of most people watching the show.

Any indication of the Greyjoy plotlines from the books yet? The fact that a couple major book characters who are engaging in activites which are rather important to the plot of the series are entirely absent from the tv show is somewhat worriesome to me.

It is the most pirated show ever, after all. HBO doesn't care, though, as everyone still buys the dvds when they come out and their ratings are still sky-high. HBO execs have gone on record with comments that pretty much state that they consider pirating to be free advertisement rather than a theft of some sort.

Which is why it might even be a deliberate 'leak' to encourage hype.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Which is why it might even be a deliberate 'leak' to encourage hype.

I have heard this as well. Would make plenty of sense to me.

Episode 1 was slower, but still pretty fantastic.

Tormund continues to scare the beejeezus out of me.

I think there's still a handful of characters who are basically going to become 'plot-proof', namely:








Okay, literally, if you don't want the mother of all spoilers spoiled, don't freaking click this!!



4.

From what Ive been reading its all but confirmed that the Greyjoy subplots from the book have been all but written out of the show in favor of Dorne. Heres hoping the writers bleed out in a freak pencil-sharpening accident, or theyre forced to double back onto that plotline when the season ends and they still arent any closer to the next book in the series from Mr. Martin.

 Sasori wrote:
Going from the previews, it looks like Sansa is going to take the place of

Spoiler:

Lady Stoneheart- The Zombie Catlyn Stark

I have a lot of faith in the TV show. Books 4 and 5 were really not that good, to be honest. However the show seems to have picked up on the shortcomings so far, so I am hoping the writers can continue to do the same.

I can foresee an extended role for Tyrion, compared to what he had in the 4th and 5th books.

As for Doomed characters living/unexpced characters dying, I can sorta see this. Only with Minor characters though. We've seen a few minor characters already omitted.

I just watched the first episode. They've already axed a very significant character. A certain silver haired teenager.

Not that I can exactly blame them. Towards the end of ADWD I started to feel a little overloaded on the different plot lines.

I may be wrong, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if

So no one's talking about GoT?

I know it's been a little slow this season, but there's some really interesting stuff happening IMO, especially for those who have read the books and are familiar with certain fan theories (spoilers ahead).



Anyway, the show is definitely veering from the books now, but IMO it seems like the writers have made improvements overall.

 Jihadin wrote:
Depends on how Martin writes his last two books. If he writes his last two books. Which seems HBO will complete his last two "books" for him..

I see Jon living being the Red Lady is there
Stannis coming down south and take King's Landing
Walkers crashing the Wall and Jon delaying action to save Stannis butt from getting corn cobbed
Denaries coming across the pond to save everyone from the Walkers
Stannis dies
Jaimie kills Cersi
The Church goes to War/Crusade
Tyrion goes into Denaries Council
Dragons are controlled by Denaries effectively. She might have to bite an ear or two
Flint sails into Castle Rock and Levels IT like Charleston SC........wait...

Currently the show is now moving away from the books (thank god as the last few books were to myself and friends dismal shadows of the earlier ones with loads of useless new characters and plots). I can't see GRM actually finishing anything and if it is - will be hugely influenced by the show - which is now much better than the source material.

What I would like

Kill Jon - seriously get rid of him and all the dull people at the wall.
Let the ice monsters come sweeping down rather than apparently getting lost in snowdrifts or whatever they have been supposed to be doing, lots of battles and stuff.
Dany reaserts herself - much as she is currently doing in the show, pops over to Westros - burns ice things a bit, decides its really not worth the bother and establishes her own realm in Meerem and the other slaver cities - burns and/or puts in the fighting pits those who are against her.
Tyrion sits on her council - has fun and dies the way he always wanted.
Sansa gets a happy ending
Aria gets a plot that actually has an impact on the rest and kills Cersi

What I think we will get is pretty much as the OP states.

Regarding the White Walkers, I predict that they will play a small part this season (remember Jon and Torumund discussing the wildlings who escaped to Hardhome? When Jon and Mr T. go to retrieve them by ship expect...something.) But I think next season Winter will finally be here. The show is catching up to GRRM fast. (Already has for a handful of characters) and season 6 will use a lot of Winds of Winter material.

What they've done with Jorah Mormont is interesting...they're clearly merging the character arcs of two, maybe three characters from the books into one to streamline things. Jorah himself, Jon Corrington (who was cut for the show) and possibly...[SPOILER FOR TODAY'S/YESTERDAYS EPISODE and a spoiler ].



[BOOK SPOILER]



[TV SPOILER]



By season 7, they're going to have to bring in GRRM as a full time writer (there's no way he'll finish the last book Dream of Spring in one year), unless he's willing to give them a crude outline of the ending and the creative freedom to fill in the rest. (The shows already veering off at right angles to the books in some parts).

Or perhaps instead of a season 7 (which WILL be almost completely based on unreleased material), they'll wait a couple years, and finish the series off with a feature film (of comparable length to LOTR). IIRC GRRM has indicated that's how wants to end the show. (It's an excuse so he has more time to finish the books I think.)

As I understand it GRM has already given them that outline and they will decide how much to fllow ......

Good things they have changed already:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Kill Jon - seriously get rid of him and all the dull people at the wall.

Disagree. His character keeps getting better, and it's pretty clear he's going to be the resurrected Azor Ahai. Especially since Jon's sword, Like Azor Ahai's, was essentially "reborn." Although, interestingly, and not that I think about it...if we look at the sword reborn portion....it could also be Jaime or Brienne.....

Also, this season has been fantastic so far. And last night's episode was great.

I feel kinda disappointed that 'Lady Stoneheart', to avoid book spoilers, I'll just say, doesn't seem to be an important enough character to be in the show.

Anyway, once the show is concluded I would fething love for a feature film focusing on Roberts rebellion, featuring Eddard, Lyanna, Rickard and Brandon Stark, Robert and Stannis Baratheon, Rhaegar and Aerys Targaryen, Barristan Selmy, Jaime and Tywin Lannister, etc.

It would be perfect for a prequel film. All the groundwork and mystery regarding the infamous X + Y = Z theory will have been concluded in season 7 and everyone will know the truth. It would be to the GOT show, what the Hobbit trilogy was to the LOTR. (

I'm happy about it. Magic in GoT has always been less shiny and fantasy-ish than in regular Fantasy novels. I didn't like the part in the books and am happy the series doesn't follow.

I do hope for them to just kill the young Starks. They bore both of us to death and that magic-leaf-child stuff is just stupid.

 Compel wrote:
I feel kinda disappointed that 'Lady Stoneheart', to avoid book spoilers, I'll just say, doesn't seem to be an important enough character to be in the show.

Yes, that's the one thing that I am SEVERELY disappointed -verging- on- angry about. Such a great character. I hope they introduce her next season at least. Non book readers: if you think the show is dark, you know nothing.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Kill Jon - seriously get rid of him and all the dull people at the wall.

Disagree. His character keeps getting better, and it's pretty clear he's going to be the resurrected Azor Ahai. Especially since Jon's sword, Like Azor Ahai's, was essentially "reborn." Although, interestingly, and not that I think about it...if we look at the sword reborn portion....it could also be Jaime or Brienne.....

See, I like the idea that...

 Compel wrote:
I feel kinda disappointed that 'Lady Stoneheart', to avoid book spoilers, I'll just say, doesn't seem to be an important enough character to be in the show.

She could still appear, though. But I think Coldhands is completely gonzo.

Honestly, I miss a lot of the background stuff, such as the stories of the Night's King, and of the Knight of the Laughing Tree. It's not just that they were cool stories, it's that they felt important to the plot, you know?

HOWEVER, I'm starting to think that we may yet hear about some of these things at a different time, as they slowly build up the White Walkers/Others and Rhaegar and Lyanna's story.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Kill Jon - seriously get rid of him and all the dull people at the wall.

Disagree. His character keeps getting better, and it's pretty clear he's going to be the resurrected Azor Ahai. Especially since Jon's sword, Like Azor Ahai's, was essentially "reborn." Although, interestingly, and not that I think about it...if we look at the sword reborn portion....it could also be Jaime or Brienne.....

Also, this season has been fantastic so far. And last night's episode was great.

Agreed this seasons rocks .

No interest in Jon/Azor Ahai - give me Dragon Queens any day, you want to light up the night - do it with Dragon fire....its the only way to be sure.....

Establish Dany as Queen advised by Jorah, Tryion and Varis - everybody wins - and if they don;t well - Dragon fire.............

 Sigvatr wrote:
I'm happy about it. Magic in GoT has always been less shiny and fantasy-ish than in regular Fantasy novels. I didn't like the part in the books and am happy the series doesn't follow.

I do hope for them to just kill the young Starks. They bore both of us to death and that magic-leaf-child stuff is just stupid.

Not true. It has always been there, just dormant and in the background. A key theme of the Song of Ice and Fire universe is that magic, long believed to be the stuff of myth and legend, is slowly creeping back into the world. Hence the dragons, white walkers, Red Priests, Faceless Men, Qyburn, Bloodraven and the Children of the forest etc.

Hell, the very first chapter featured a terrifying race of Ice demons that can create zombies.

If you don't like those High Fantasy parts, prepare to be disappointed. The last two books will be stuffed full of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Kill Jon - seriously get rid of him and all the dull people at the wall.

Disagree. His character keeps getting better, and it's pretty clear he's going to be the resurrected Azor Ahai. Especially since Jon's sword, Like Azor Ahai's, was essentially "reborn." Although, interestingly, and not that I think about it...if we look at the sword reborn portion....it could also be Jaime or Brienne.....

Also, this season has been fantastic so far. And last night's episode was great.

Agreed this seasons rocks .

No interest in Jon/Azor Ahai - give me Dragon Queens any day, you want to light up the night - do it with Dragon fire....its the only way to be sure.....

Establish Dany as Queen advised by Jorah, Tryion and Varis - everybody wins - and if they don;t well - Dragon fire.............

Dude... Jon and Danny are the two most important characters in the story. Two sides of the same coin. Ice and Fire.

I'm happy about it. Magic in GoT has always been less shiny and fantasy-ish than in regular Fantasy novels. I didn't like the part in the books and am happy the series doesn't follow. I do hope for them to just kill the young Starks. They bore both of us to death and that magic-leaf-child stuff is just stupid.

Agreed - its painful to read and as far as I am concerend they coud never mention any of the younger Starks and nothing would be lost from the actual real story.

Not true. It has always been there, just dormant and in the background. A key theme of the Song of Ice and Fire universe is that magic, long believed to be the stuff of myth and legend, is slowly creeping back into the world. Hence the dragons, white walkers, Red Priests, Faceless Men, Qyburn, Bloodraven and the Children of the forest etc. Hell, the very first chapter featured a terrifying race of Ice demons that can create zombies. If you don't like those High Fantasy parts, prepare to be disappointed. The last two books will be stuffed full of it.

If he ever writes them....
the ice Wraiths are cool - pity he never did anything with them......like most of the decent stuff he created - he let them slide and focussed on tiresome minor characters and wanabee elves- IMO

No interest in Jon/Azor Ahai - give me Dragon Queens any day, you want to light up the night - do it with Dragon fire....its the only way to be sure.....
Establish Dany as Queen advised by Jorah, Tryion and Varis - everybody wins - and if they don;t well - Dragon fire.............

Dude... Jon and Danny are the two most important characters in the story. Two sides of the same coin. Ice and Fire.

Spoiler:

Or maybe that's just Jon, and Danny is a red herring. (The Targs do tend towards madness after all ).

As I siad - I don't care about Jon - in the show or books....and which is more effective against ice monsters - a ragtag army with a pinning boy at their head or a Queen with Dragons and armies......and of course the Red Priests also see Dany as the instrument of their god (not that thats completely a good thing)

She might be a little mad - but I like that in my fantasy women At least the show gets her right in attitude if not quite right in appearance.....

DELETED

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
I'm happy about it. Magic in GoT has always been less shiny and fantasy-ish than in regular Fantasy novels. I didn't like the part in the books and am happy the series doesn't follow.

I do hope for them to just kill the young Starks. They bore both of us to death and that magic-leaf-child stuff is just stupid.

Not true. It has always been there, just dormant and in the background. A key theme of the Song of Ice and Fire universe is that magic, long believed to be the stuff of myth and legend, is slowly creeping back into the world. Hence the dragons, white walkers, Red Priests, Faceless Men, Qyburn, Bloodraven and the Children of the forest etc.

Hell, the very first chapter featured a terrifying race of Ice demons that can create zombies.

If you don't like those High Fantasy parts, prepare to be disappointed. The last two books will be stuffed full of it.[/spoiler]

That's not what I've said. I said that it "has always been", thus implying that it's been like this until the very point of where we're now. I am well aware of the underlying theme and the return of magic being closely tied to the increasing power and return of the dragons. Lady Stoneheart, however, just came out of nowhere...and let's not talk about the Children of the Dude-How-High-Was-Martin-When-He-Wrote-This. Uargh.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Dude... Jon and Danny are the two most important characters in the story. Two sides of the same coin. Ice and Fire.

Spoiler:

Or maybe that's just Jon, and Danny is a red herring. (The Targs do tend towards madness after all ).

As I siad - I don't care about Jon - in the show or books....and which is more effective against ice monsters - a ragtag army with a pinning boy at their head or a Queen with Dragons and armies......and of course the Red Priests also see Dany as the instrument of their god (not that thats completely a good thing)

She might be a little mad - but I like that in my fantasy women At least the show gets her right in attitude if not quite right in appearance.....

Well you see, I'm not entirely convinced that the White Walkers (Ice) are the bad guys, and the Dragons/Red Priests of Rhllor are the good guys. GRRM has said that he dislikes simplistic black and white stories where's it's perfectly clear who the good guys And bad guys are (LOTR. As much as I love LOTR, it is a reasonably accurate criticism). It's more likely that neither side, Ice or Fire, is truly evil or good. Rather they're just two sides of the same coin, two diametrically opposed sides waging war against each other (The "Great Other" vs Rhllor) with humanity Caught in the middle.

Humanity has to pick a side.

On one side, we have the zombie raising White Walker ice demons (who are apparently humans transformed by ice magic). The Starks with their magical animal warging abilities.

And on the other side, we have the dragons - vicious, dangerous monsters. Shadow demon babies. Sentient "zombies" resurrected using fire magic (Beric Dondarrion says that every time you're resurrected this way, a part of your soul is lost). Oh, and the Red Priests practice a brutal form of human sacrifice (burning).

I don't think the climax of the story will be the ultimate victory of one side over the other. Rather, I think the story will end with Peace. Like in Star Wars, "The Force" (magic) must be brought into balance.


There was a cool theory I read once on the ASOIAF forums...[not really a spoiler, just a wildly speculative theory].



Crackpot I know, but I like it.


Personally, as much as I'm a fan of the Starks with Jon and Arya being my favourite characters book and show (though I do like where the show version of Daenerys is going so she might be my third), I support a third side...

There is only one God. And his name is death.

Ohh I def agree that the two sides are not good or evil - Might even be the old Chaos (Fire) and Order (Ice) or something else...... Humanity could do the whole - I don't want to play your games but I dont think thats going to work in this universe.

It also often overlooked that Dany's ancestors are not completely human - (personally I imagine them as a lost Melnibonean colony as they interbred with humans ) and Old Valyrian where the Dragon Lords ruled still burns from what happened several hundred years ago
However the hippy elements really don't seem to fit very well for me.

Star Wars was much more simplistic than LOTR IMO - and the original films only ended with a major victory not the end of the war - rebellions seldom end in peace - usually reprisals and exploitation.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Anyway, once the show is concluded I would fething love for a feature film focusing on Roberts rebellion, featuring Eddard, Lyanna, Rickard and Brandon Stark, Robert and Stannis Baratheon, Rhaegar and Aerys Targaryen, Barristan Selmy, Jaime and Tywin Lannister, etc.

It would be perfect for a prequel film. All the groundwork and mystery regarding the infamous X + Y = Z theory will have been concluded in season 7 and everyone will know the truth. It would be to the GOT show, what the Hobbit trilogy was to the LOTR. (

Yep. Everything about that sounds fantastic.

So....lets do some fanboy wishlist casting...

Lyanna -- Kiera Knightly too old? Maybe Hayley Atwell?

Rickard - Is Ian McShane or Billy Connoly too old?

Brandon - Christian Bale?

Rhaegar - I mean...I'm probably over typecasting here, but Lee Pace has to be on the table...

To the guy who expressed disappointment regarding Lady Stoneheart being cut from the show, I just noticed something on the show's Wiki!

I think they're setting up John Snow to be viciously attacked by white walkers in the next episode, so he can be singlehandedly rescued by Hodor.

 Mr Morden wrote:
and Old Valyrian where the Dragon Lords ruled still burns from what happened several hundred years ago

Not according to the show. Seriously, the show's depiction of Valyria was disappointing. I mean, it was cool and all, a sunken dead city overgrown with a jungle is really cool (I'd like to make one in Minecraft), but its not how Valyria was described in the books. Where are the smoking, burning volcanoes? Where are the (rumoured) demons? This is supposed to be a legendary place feared by the entire world where only the most foolhardy and brave dare tread (Euron Greyjoy). Instead, it just looked like your average, generic ruined city.

Star Wars was much more simplistic than LOTR IMO - and the original films only ended with a major victory not the end of the war - rebellions seldom end in peace - usually reprisals and exploitation.

True, but thats only because the Expanded Universe was retconned out of existence so of JJ Abrams could make an original story with the Empire surviving. Originally, Ep VI spelled the beginning of the end for the Empire, which quickly collapsed into a small "Imperial Remnant".

Or not. Maybe thats an oversimplification. I only read a handful of EU books, the rest of my knowledge is second hand info from the wikis.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Necros wrote:
I think they're setting up John Snow to be viciously attacked by white walkers in the next episode, so he can be singlehandedly rescued by Hodor.

Deus Ex Hodor?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina

AH not seen the latest episode - wathcing tomorrow - shame Valyaria burning was a great image and possible warning......

crap sorry.

They really ought to have just called it "the Rhoynar" like in the books, or a Valryian city on the outskirts of Valryia which was destroyed and flooded by the tidal wave but not the Valyrian capital / the epicentre of the Valryian doom.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Anyway, once the show is concluded I would fething love for a feature film focusing on Roberts rebellion, featuring Eddard, Lyanna, Rickard and Brandon Stark, Robert and Stannis Baratheon, Rhaegar and Aerys Targaryen, Barristan Selmy, Jaime and Tywin Lannister, etc.

It would be perfect for a prequel film. All the groundwork and mystery regarding the infamous X + Y = Z theory will have been concluded in season 7 and everyone will know the truth. It would be to the GOT show, what the Hobbit trilogy was to the LOTR. (

Yep. Everything about that sounds fantastic.

So....lets do some fanboy wishlist casting...

Lyanna -- Kiera Knightly too old? Maybe Hayley Atwell?

Rickard - Is Ian McShane or Billy Connoly too old?

Brandon - Christian Bale?

Rhaegar - I mean...I'm probably over typecasting here, but Lee Pace has to be on the table...

Lee Pace is bloody perfect.

@SCE:

It's definitely difficult to see R'hllor as a purely benevolent force. And the show revealed what the WW/Others do with those babies, which wasn't as malevolent as we might have expected ("reproduction" as opposed to sacrificing them, etc.). It might be a Babylon 5-style setup.

One of the interesting parts of the Night's King story (I guess I should spoiler this for those who haven't read the books?)



I also think it's possible that R'hllor and the Great Other are two sides of the same diety.

It might be a Babylon 5-style setup.

That was my thought - Order and Chaos...neither better than the other in the long run (although I have a thing for the Shadows, odly enough)

Well they did talk about the "one God" in the recent epsiode in Bravos and all the Gods being but aspects?

No idea who Lee Pace is - but I am useless at actors..........

 Mr Morden wrote:
No idea who Lee Pace is - but I am useless at actors..........

He's the most fabulous actor on this planet!



Also goes by the name of Thranduil...

And he plays Ronan the Accuser.

I haven't actually watched a single episode of this season. But I've never been a real fan of GOM. I prefer the older books and I think my dislike of the last two has put me off a bit.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
No idea who Lee Pace is - but I am useless at actors..........

He's the most fabulous actor on this planet!

Spoiler:

Also goes by the name of Thranduil...

Ah right thanks - yes he was good in the Hobbit I'll aks my firend if she thinks he is good looking enough for the Valyrian prince or she has a better idea........

In terms of appearance I actually liked more the original casting of Tamzin Merchant for Dany - Emila Clarke has done very very well though as has pretty much all the cast - they werre very well chosen tbh.

 Mr Morden wrote:
In terms of appearance I actually liked more the original casting of Tamzin Merchant for Dany - Emila Clarke has done very very well though as has pretty much all the cast - they werre very well chosen tbh.

Well...except for the Mountain. The first (Season 1) and the third actors (Season 4) suited the role well. But the Season 2 actor (a placeholder actor really), though tall enough, didn't really project his sheer presence. IIRC the character only had one scene in Season 2. They ought to have cut it and left it till S4 to reintroduce him in the flesh, or just stuck a large stunt man / body builder in a suit of armour with a full helm obscuring him.

Now seen the latest episode

Dany was simply glorious -everything the GRM failed to write in the recent books - hopefully he will correct his errors.

oh and Ramsey, his dad and girlfriend are scene stealers.

Can we get less Daenarys and more Tyrion scenes please? :(

 Sigvatr wrote:
Can we get less Daenarys and more Tyrion scenes please? :(

Why? Best bits in the show imo - her feeding the dragons was a glorious scene............ Tyrion / Jorah was good but Dany asserting herself was a joy to behold........

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Not according to the show. Seriously, the show's depiction of Valyria was disappointing. I mean, it was cool and all, a sunken dead city overgrown with a jungle is really cool (I'd like to make one in Minecraft), but its not how Valyria was described in the books. Where are the smoking, burning volcanoes? Where are the (rumoured) demons? This is supposed to be a legendary place feared by the entire world where only the most foolhardy and brave dare tread (Euron Greyjoy). Instead, it just looked like your average, generic ruined city.

Probably went this route purely because of budgetary reasons...
To do a 'still burning/smoldering city' that's safe for their actors and crew to film in, would likely have meant building a decent sized set on a green stage and then gone heavy on the CG.

know they do use CG sets for some wide-out/overhead shots, but I don't think they've yet done a major CG set with cast members actually on screen.

I thought the Valyria scenes were great. Seeing Drogon's shadow looming above gave me legit chills.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Can we get less Daenarys and more Tyrion scenes please? :(

Why? Best bits in the show imo - her feeding the dragons was a glorious scene............ Tyrion / Jorah was good but Dany asserting herself was a joy to behold........

The Dany scenes were cringeworthy.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Not according to the show. Seriously, the show's depiction of Valyria was disappointing. I mean, it was cool and all, a sunken dead city overgrown with a jungle is really cool (I'd like to make one in Minecraft), but its not how Valyria was described in the books. Where are the smoking, burning volcanoes? Where are the (rumoured) demons? This is supposed to be a legendary place feared by the entire world where only the most foolhardy and brave dare tread (Euron Greyjoy). Instead, it just looked like your average, generic ruined city.

Probably went this route purely because of budgetary reasons...
To do a 'still burning/smoldering city' that's safe for their actors and crew to film in, would likely have meant building a decent sized set on a green stage and then gone heavy on the CG.

know they do use CG sets for some wide-out/overhead shots, but I don't think they've yet done a major CG set with cast members actually on screen.

My issue is not with the set, my issue is with the name they gave it and the fact that they've deliberately ignored a very evocative part of the Lore (that Valyria is still burning 300 years later) to replace it with a generic overgrown ruined city.

Valryia is not a flooded ruined city overgrown with a jungle. Its a roiling, burning, smoking wasteland and flooded ruin wracked by active volcanoes and supposedly haunted by demons and all manner of foul creatures.

There were several Valryian cities and colonies surrounding Valryia itself (the capital, like Rome). Rather than deliberately ignoring how GRRM described Valyria, I would have preferred it if the show had picked one of those Valryian cities/colonies on the outskirts of Valyria instead, to stay true to the book and retain a degree of mystery.

Tyrion: "Is this Valyria?"
Jorah: "No. This is [insert Valryian city here]. That is Valryia." <Points to the glowing red horizon>

According to the wiki, there were at least two other cities in close proximity to Valyria - Tyria and Oros. They should have picked one of those.

And yes I'm nitpicking. I'm a nerd.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Can we get less Daenarys and more Tyrion scenes please? :(

Why? Best bits in the show imo - her feeding the dragons was a glorious scene............ Tyrion / Jorah was good but Dany asserting herself was a joy to behold........

Daenarys isn't interesting. She is a terrible leader and while the books portray it better, even in the series, she just sucks at the job. The dragon feeding scene was bad, in my eyes, as it tried to make her look "badass" when in fact, we have just seen her incompetence and immaturity in the last episode. Extremely uninteresting character. Not as bad as Dorne or, gods beware, the magical Stark boys, but very meh-ish.

My main problem is the poor portrayal in the series. Her character doesn't feel genuine because we are shown two very different sides. The series tries to make her look more empowering and less of a "victim" than she is in the books, but that doesn't rhyme with her immense incompetence. Her (series) character has a few very rough edges.

 cincydooley wrote:
I thought the Valyria scenes were great. Seeing Drogon's shadow looming above gave me legit chills.

Hell...my first thought on them seeing Drogon was Drogon swooping down to get one and half men and a toothpick

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Can we get less Daenarys and more Tyrion scenes please? :(

Why? Best bits in the show imo - her feeding the dragons was a glorious scene............ Tyrion / Jorah was good but Dany asserting herself was a joy to behold........

Daenarys isn't interesting. She is a terrible leader and while the books portray it better, even in the series, she just sucks at the job. The dragon feeding scene was bad, in my eyes, as it tried to make her look "badass" when in fact, we have just seen her incompetence and immaturity in the last episode. Extremely uninteresting character. Not as bad as Dorne or, gods beware, the magical Stark boys, but very meh-ish.

My main problem is the poor portrayal in the series. Her character doesn't feel genuine because we are shown two very different sides. The series tries to make her look more empowering and less of a "victim" than she is in the books, but that doesn't rhyme with her immense incompetence. Her (series) character has a few very rough edges.

Ah well each to their own - but I completely disagree with everything you wrote

One of the many many problems with the most recent books was the lazy and retrograde depiction of Dany as a feckless teenager only obsessed with her merc lover...... in contrast the show shows that she has grown and evolved through bitter experience from her victimised start to a strong and powerful queen, a little touched by her families madness but someone in control and making the right decisions - by and large.

In the books - she is only a victim when her brother is alive and then again in the terrible Dances with Dragons.

She could have gone down the "lets kill them all" like her lover suggested but showed both her true power (Dragons) on one hand williness to compromise on the other (Open the pits and marriage on the other. Ot also reminded everyone that she was a Valyrian still and as her lover said - without her Dragons she was no queen. That feeding scene showed her taking back command and also showing the Masters the alternative to working with her -0 which she still offered.

People do foolish things - look at everyone else in the world - they make really really bad choices for what they think of as good reasons - case in point is Ned Stark - because he won;t compromise his precious honour he drives the realm to civil war and gets most of his family slaughtered - it scarcely mattered whose son Joffrey was to the majority of the people...............

But I am bais as she is my fav character in the show and books

Right decisions?

Remember when she crucified hundreds of people without trial?

Well, they (head of households of the ruling class) knew they were screwed when she launched barrels of chain bindings collected off the dead slaves lining the road to the city

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Right decisions?

Remember when she crucified hundreds of people without trial?

And then gets her knickers in a twist when a member of the Sons of the Harpy is murdered by a vengeful freed slave angry over the massacres being perpetrated by them.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Right decisions?

Remember when she crucified hundreds of people without trial?

Trials - she is a Queen - thats not how it works in her world. Rulers make judgements and act on them. Trials are held for poltical reasons - who in the show or books ever had a trial who was not noble born?

and? They were the ones who crucifed the children as mileposts......

Quite in keeping with her world and how it works -and in doing so won the adoration of tens of thousands. It also gave a focus for the anger of the slaves - you will recall the ones whose children had been crucifed - many many more owuld have died if the slaves had simply been aloowed to vent their anger on the "feee people"

And then gets her knickers in a twist when a member of the Sons of the Harpy is murdered by a vengeful freed slave angry over the massacres being perpetrated by them

Ah well yeah that was a bad call - she should have banished him or something but was trying to show "fairness" - she should have fed a few Masters to her Dragons earlier as an example of what it was to defy her rule.

Not all of them did that. She was basically just going all out "All X are Y!".

A true king or queen would have given them a fair trial, or at least would've spared the innocent.

What I'm getting at is that it was an abrupt U turn.

When the slave children were crucified en masse by the Masters, she crucified the Masters en masse regardless of their guilt.

But now that she's got to worry about keeping the peace in Meereen, she's agonising over the murder of a known member of the Sons of the Harpy, executed the murderer thereby straining the loyalty of the slaves who once called her "Mhysa!".

The show might be streamlining the process a bit, but she is definitely an ineffective ruler at this point, flailing about trying to do something, anything to fix things. This is the Danny of the books.

I'm looking forward to the upcoming battle in the fighting pits and Drogon cameo. She'll be getting a new Khalasar next Season.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Ah well yeah that was a bad call - she should have banished him or something but was trying to show "fairness" - she should have fed a few Masters to her Dragons earlier as an example of what it was to defy her rule.

Daenerys Targaryen: wrote:"You have been tried and found guilty. I hereby sentence you to death by Dragon!".

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Not all of them did that. She was basically just going all out "All X are Y!".

A true king or queen would have given them a fair trial, or at least would've spared the innocent.

Which King or Queen in the show / books would have bothered with a trial in the same situation - Her ancestors wouldn't, Robert? Cersei? Joffrey? Stanis? Nope........... Nearest to "true Fair King" is Stanis - and he burns people -alive to appease Melisande.

She needed to show the freed slaves the new order and impose her will on the former masters - lastly she took vengeance on all their behalf - in the hope that they wuld not do worse. It was a conquered city - bad things happy to conquered cities in history and /or fantasy.

We need to judge her by the standards of her world - ot ours................ She killed how many people - a hundred or so was it - and took a city without massive bloodshed.

"Fair and honourable" men like Ned Stark caused the deaths of thousands and achieved nothing.

What I'm getting at is that it was an abrupt U turn.

That was a mistake - she should have kept her followers happy and said something along the lines of - "he did wrong" but I will show mercy etc ........banished him - kept the former slaves happy.

No the Dany of the books was manipulated left and right by advistor and later husband, weak at te knees over her merc lover and terrified of her own Dragons - the show one is regaining control over them all.............

I hope they keep the changes and don;t do the character reset to the back to the Dothraki - Drogon has already visited her once and hopefully will do again - if they ignore all the slave caravan crap GRM came up with just to keep her and Tyrion apart she will have a wiley advisor if she still want to return to Westros. Show her Dragons to the people of her city......

Meanwhile, Daenerys kills a lot of innocent, destabilises an entire region, and incites a bloody civil war.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Meanwhile, Daenerys kills a lot of innocent, destabilises an entire region, and incites a bloody civil war.

You can't make an omlete without breaking a few eggs.

Daenerys freed tens of thousands from brutal and unrelenting slavery and death, gives them hope and perhaps a new realm. Again who are you comparing her to in her world - Stanis, Cersie? Robert? Joffrey? The Boltons? Thats the people whose world she lives in?

There is no civil war - those who lost thier position and power are trying to take it back - they need to be winnowed out and killed. You remember the ones who crucify hundreds of children to make a point ?

What did Fair and Honourable Ned Stark achive except death and misery for everyone?

I thought it was pretty kool the guy that got volunteered by her to marry was already on his knees

 Jihadin wrote:
I thought it was pretty kool the guy that got volunteered by her to marry was already on his knees

It was nicely done - as she remarked upon

 Mr Morden wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Meanwhile, Daenerys kills a lot of innocent, destabilises an entire region, and incites a bloody civil war.

You can't make an omlete without breaking a few eggs.

Daenerys freed tens of thousands from brutal and unrelenting slavery and death, gives them hope and perhaps a new realm. Again who are you comparing her to in her world - Stanis, Cersie? Robert? Joffrey? The Boltons? Thats the people whose world she lives in?

There is no civil war - those who lost thier position and power are trying to take it back - they need to be winnowed out and killed. You remember the ones who crucify hundreds of children to make a point ?

What did Fair and Honourable Ned Stark achive except death and misery for everyone?

Stannis, of course. He wouldn't crucify the innocent to make a point - even those that are burned by Melisandre are guilty of crimes.

The whole war in the streets certainly seems like the start of a civil war, eh? As for those children, I guess the masters needed to make a point, too - which means it's perfectly fine, right?

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Meanwhile, Daenerys kills a lot of innocent, destabilises an entire region, and incites a bloody civil war.

You can't make an omlete without breaking a few eggs.

Daenerys freed tens of thousands from brutal and unrelenting slavery and death, gives them hope and perhaps a new realm. Again who are you comparing her to in her world - Stanis, Cersie? Robert? Joffrey? The Boltons? Thats the people whose world she lives in?

There is no civil war - those who lost thier position and power are trying to take it back - they need to be winnowed out and killed. You remember the ones who crucify hundreds of children to make a point ?

What did Fair and Honourable Ned Stark achive except death and misery for everyone?

Stannis, of course. He wouldn't crucify the innocent to make a point - even those that are burned by Melisandre are guilty of crimes.

The whole war in the streets certainly seems like the start of a civil war, eh? As for those children, I guess the masters needed to make a point, too - which means it's perfectly fine, right?

Stannis wouldn't crucify the innocent to make a point - do you even watch the show - that was Exactly why he burnt people alive - because they would not accept the "new" religion and to prove a point to everyone else - obey me (and the Lord of Light) or burn. I have no problem with that in the context of the world they live in.....

A few terrorists attacking people from ambush is not a civil war - its exactly as I stated, those who have lost power trying to terrorise everyone by striking back. We shall see how they react to the opening of the pits/marriage/Dragon eating example.

Yeah crucifying children was the same as selecting those guilty of ordering the same and "enacting Justice upon them" as Dany says

You keep missing the point - this is the world they all live in - its not a nice safe home in the 20th century - its a quasi medieval world where life is very very cheap - people die - horribly - on the whims of those in power - why do you want to pretend that somehow Dany is the worst offender in this regard.

Stanis would kill every child with royal blood to get his way, in the name of the Lord of Light.

 d-usa wrote:
Stanis would kill every child with royal blood to get his way, in the name of the Lord of Light.

Indeed and anyone who did not bend the knee or worship the Lord of Light. Is what those using religion as a power source do and always did in the past.

Stannis and Dany are sometimes considered the "nice" ones and they yet will commit - what are to us horrific acts - but compare them with the Bolton's and you see why they are considered such. Look back at anceient and medieval rulers and see what they did "to make a point"...............

Remember Varis is trying to get Dany on the throne, ironically as the one to break the chain of oppression of the weak by the strong - not sure its ever going to be that clear cut - as Tyrion says..........

 Mr Morden wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Meanwhile, Daenerys kills a lot of innocent, destabilises an entire region, and incites a bloody civil war.

You can't make an omlete without breaking a few eggs.

Daenerys freed tens of thousands from brutal and unrelenting slavery and death, gives them hope and perhaps a new realm. Again who are you comparing her to in her world - Stanis, Cersie? Robert? Joffrey? The Boltons? Thats the people whose world she lives in?

There is no civil war - those who lost thier position and power are trying to take it back - they need to be winnowed out and killed. You remember the ones who crucify hundreds of children to make a point ?

What did Fair and Honourable Ned Stark achive except death and misery for everyone?

Stannis, of course. He wouldn't crucify the innocent to make a point - even those that are burned by Melisandre are guilty of crimes.

The whole war in the streets certainly seems like the start of a civil war, eh? As for those children, I guess the masters needed to make a point, too - which means it's perfectly fine, right?

Stannis wouldn't crucify the innocent to make a point - do you even watch the show - that was Exactly why he burnt people alive - because they would not accept the "new" religion and to prove a point to everyone else - obey me (and the Lord of Light) or burn. I have no problem with that in the context of the world they live in.....

A few terrorists attacking people from ambush is not a civil war - its exactly as I stated, those who have lost power trying to terrorise everyone by striking back. We shall see how they react to the opening of the pits/marriage/Dragon eating example.

Yeah crucifying children was the same as selecting those guilty of ordering the same and "enacting Justice upon them" as Dany says

You keep missing the point - this is the world they all live in - its not a nice safe home in the 20th century - its a quasi medieval world where life is very very cheap - people die - horribly - on the whims of those in power - why do you want to pretend that somehow Dany is the worst offender in this regard.

You do realize the Florents were trying to manipulate Stannis and were found guilty of treason, right? They were guilty.

And AGAIN, Dany crucified many innocents as well.

Sure, it's a medieval world. Doesn't mean that the Stockholm syndrome girl with clear mental problems is in any way justified of her actions other than "huu I have dragons". I really can't stand her. Continuously making bad decisions, cringeworthy lines, and a massive amount of plot armor coupled with a completely messed up personality does not make for a character I could even mildly enjoy, let alone support.

Lets agree to disagree - we obviously have diametrically opposed viewpoints that will never tailor together - as much as I am bias and love her - you obviously hate her - so neither is going to be impartial.

finally "huu I have dragons" - IS all the justification she needs - THATS how HER world works FOR everyone. Power makes right- for ALL the characters

Same with Stannis - you obviously feel the same way about him as Stannis - so again not real conversation to be had.

Has anyone watched Ep 4 yet?

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Has anyone watched Ep 4 yet?

Spoiler:

Have they seriously killed off Grey Worm and Barristan Selmy?!

yes - do you want to know? if so:

 Mr Morden wrote:


yes - do you want to know? if so:

Spoiler:

Grey Worm - alive and being tended to by pretty former slave girl
Selmy - died

I would take a guess that...

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


yes - do you want to know? if so:

Spoiler:

Grey Worm - alive and being tended to by pretty former slave girl
Selmy - died

Spoiler:

So what are they going to do when Daenerys flies off on Drogon then? Selmy is supposed to be in charge of Meereen's security with Hizdahr ruling as King.

They don't have to follow the book in this, they are doing lots of things differently - and much better by cutitng out loads of crap IMO.

it could be that

Well, you know, Mormont is on a limited time table in regards to ruling anything now.......

I can see them curing him actually... As part of the thing when they're going to pull the Red Priests into Dany's storyline.

 Compel wrote:
I can see them curing him actually... As part of the thing when they're going to pull the Red Priests into Dany's storyline.

If they do it...........

had it arrested - wasn't it a healer from Drone who fixed her?

In the show have we actually seen any example of the actual Red Priests being able to heal etc? - Melisande has not that I can recall? They seem to only use destructive magic?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Compel wrote:
I can see them curing him actually... As part of the thing when they're going to pull the Red Priests into Dany's storyline.

If they do it...........

Spoiler:

Stannis daughter

had it arrested - wasn't it a healer from Drone who fixed her?

In the show have we actually seen any example of the actual Red Priests being able to heal etc? - Melisande has not that I can recall? They seem to only use destructive magic?

Yup- Thoros of Myr brings Beric Dondarrion back after the Hound chops him in Trial by Combat.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Compel wrote:
I can see them curing him actually... As part of the thing when they're going to pull the Red Priests into Dany's storyline.

If they do it...........

Spoiler:

Stannis daughter

had it arrested - wasn't it a healer from Drone who fixed her?

In the show have we actually seen any example of the actual Red Priests being able to heal etc? - Melisande has not that I can recall? They seem to only use destructive magic?

Yup- Thoros of Myr brings Beric Dondarrion back after the Hound chops him in Trial by Combat.

Is he still a Red Priest? and they kinda seem to have moved away from that whole story and the Red Priests reviving the undead?

He is a red priest.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
He is a red priest.

Speaking of...we haven't seen the Brotherhood in a loooooooong ass time.

 cincydooley wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
He is a red priest.

Speaking of...we haven't seen the Brotherhood in a loooooooong ass time.

Could also be referring to the resettlement of the Free Folk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, am I daft or why was 'Kill the boy!' named as such?

 pretre wrote:
Could also be referring to the resettlement of the Free Folk.

That's a possibility as well, albeit less exciting

 pretre wrote:
Could also be referring to the resettlement of the Free Folk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, am I daft or why was 'Kill the boy!' named as such?

"Kill the Boy Jon Snow. Let the Man come free."

 Compel wrote:
I would take a guess that...

Spoiler:

Mormont arrives just as Dany flies off, leaving him and Tyrion to take care of things, because one of the Dothraki or something vouch for him.

They probably decided that Selmy and Mormont were too similar to keep around in the same place and will be combining their arcs now that Selmy's gone.

Actually he's getting three character arcs - it was Jon Corrington who got greyscale in the books not Mormont, but it appears Jon Corrington (and the "Mummer's Dragon" have been cut entirely from the show to streamline the story.

At the rate the story is progressing, Danny will invade Westeros in Season 6.

Or not. It still hasn't happened yet in the books so its just speculation on my part, and therefore not a spoiler.

"The Gift" could also be referring to the "gift of death," which could play a part in Arya's storyline.... hmm.

Lots to consider.

 cincydooley wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Could also be referring to the resettlement of the Free Folk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, am I daft or why was 'Kill the boy!' named as such?

"Kill the Boy Jon Snow. Let the Man come free."

Ahh, gotcha.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Compel wrote:
I would take a guess that...

Spoiler:

Mormont arrives just as Dany flies off, leaving him and Tyrion to take care of things, because one of the Dothraki or something vouch for him.

They probably decided that Selmy and Mormont were too similar to keep around in the same place and will be combining their arcs now that Selmy's gone.

Actually he's getting three character arcs - it was Jon Corrington who got greyscale in the books not Mormont, but it appears Jon Corrington (and the "Mummer's Dragon" have been cut entirely from the show to streamline the story.

At the rate the story is progressing, Danny will invade Westeros in Season 6.

Or not. It still hasn't happened yet in the books so its just speculation on my part, and therefore not a spoiler.

 Compel wrote:
I can see them curing him actually... As part of the thing when they're going to pull the Red Priests into Dany's storyline.

Darkflame?

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Moqorro

Moqorro is discovered clinging to wreckage out to sea ten days later by the

Spoiler:

commanded by [SPOILER]. The crew wants him put to death, but Moqorro is unafraid and calm, which further unnerves the crew. Moqorro tells to [SPOILER]he knows of the [SPOILER] quest to seek the dragon queen and that [SPOILER] will die from his wounded hand without Moqorro's help.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Compel wrote:
I can see them curing him actually... As part of the thing when they're going to pull the Red Priests into Dany's storyline.

If they do it...........

[spoiler]Stannis daughter

Red Priest near dragons.........enlightment


They come with fire

Goodness forbid we actually have peiests that can do things, eh?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Compel wrote:
I can see them curing him actually... As part of the thing when they're going to pull the Red Priests into Dany's storyline.

If they do it...........

Spoiler:

Stannis daughter

had it arrested - wasn't it a healer from Drone who fixed her?

In the show have we actually seen any example of the actual Red Priests being able to heal etc? - Melisande has not that I can recall? They seem to only use destructive magic?

Yup- Thoros of Myr brings Beric Dondarrion back after the Hound chops him in Trial by Combat.

Is he still a Red Priest? and they kinda seem to have moved away from that whole story and the Red Priests reviving the undead?

He was sent to King's Landing to convert Robert Baratheon to Rh'llor but instead becomes one of his drinking buddies.

There seems to be no strict hierarchy among the Red Priests, and they all seem to go about their business in different ways.

Hello...Thoros of Myr ring any bells?

Well yes, but thats why I asked if he was still a Red Priest or now something else and is he still even in the show? Do they need him for anything in the actual plot lines they are using?

The other two I recall are Melisande who only seems to demonstrate destructive magic or prophercy and the recent RP who seemed to recognise Tyrion and was preeching about Dany amongst other things

.

Wasn't something mention about "magic" returning when the dragons hatch?

What if the Walkers are natural enemy of the dragons........and they both know that each are walking the lands now......

 Jihadin wrote:
Wasn't something mention about "magic" returning when the dragons hatch?

What if the Walkers are natural enemy of the dragons........and they both know that each are walking the lands now......

That's a clear theme in the books. Magic died off when the dragons did (not sure if this is just a coincidence or a cause ) and returns when they do (again not sure if coincidence or cause).

Severely disappointed by episode 5. That forced love story with Greyworm is just stupid and very poor writing. Berristan's fate heavily breaks with the lore. Not liking where the series is going.

It looks as if you're bound to be continually disappointed here...

 Sigvatr wrote:
Severely disappointed by episode 5. That forced love story with Greyworm is just stupid and very poor writing. Berristan's fate heavily breaks with the lore. Not liking where the series is going.

I thought Episode 5 was one of the best of the entire series. Lots of great set pieces. Missandei and Greyworm are more than just throw away characters now.

Berristan didn't really DO anything that others couldn't do.

So..I guess I'm saying I heartily disagree.

Jorah has a angle to get back in Danerias good graces though. Replacing Ser "B" and having Tyrion there to. I cannot think though who practices magic in Danerias inner circle or out and about in the city to cure the "Gray Skin"

Jon so far following along with the book so far but I wonder.....(Mance)



I wonder if their going to bring over one of the giants to help Jon (Big guy was kind of cool in the book)
...........
Penny Dreadful after that

 Alpharius wrote:
It looks as if you're bound to be continually disappointed here...

Indeed - I (and all my friends I have spoken to) think that the show writers have done a fantastic job in cutting out the hundreds of pages of dross and un needed characters that were thrown into the last few books.

The recent deaths of keep the story moving and also TV shows don't want to pay people if they are not really any use in the show (they don't need either character now) - GRM tends to throw people in left right and centre, forgot about them for a book or two etc and that approach is not going to work when you are dealing with real actors and real bills to pay them.

re Greyworm - can't see anything wrong with it, thought it was nicely played myself but each to their own.........

 Alpharius wrote:
It looks as if you're bound to be continually disappointed here...

Why? Up to this point, with a few exceptions, the series managed to catch the story really well. Greyworm is just a very poorly slapped on "Crap, we don't have other characters for a love story!" goon and has been rewritten to fit into the usual series clichees. That's very poor writing. I really hope for this to be a slip up.

The writing has been good, but I think they took a bad turn with the end of this episode.

As I posted on another forum, the second after the credits started, I told my wife that the writers are about to face a gakstorm. Which was probably their goal, but they didn't need to do THAT for shock value and to get people talking.

And it was bad writing to boot. The Sansa character had evolved to the point where it was highly out of character for her to let that happen to her. Just 15 minutes earlier you had the scene in the bath where Sansa was strong, unintimidated, and not a victim.

Could there be a twist coming in the next episode? That would at least excuse the bad writing, although not the trolling for outrage.

 gorgon wrote:
The writing has been good, but I think they took a bad turn with the end of this episode.

As I posted on another forum, the second after the credits started, I told my wife that the writers are about to face a gakstorm. Which was probably their goal, but they didn't need to do THAT for shock value and to get people talking.

And it was bad writing to boot. The Sansa character had evolved to the point where it was highly out of character for her to let that happen to her. Just 15 minutes earlier you had the scene in the bath where Sansa was strong, unintimidated, and not a victim.

Could there be a twist coming in the next episode? That would at least excuse the bad writing, although not the trolling for outrage.

This must be a new episode as not sure what this is about?

Uk have not got the latest episode as yet......guessing its a Ramsey / Sansa or similar moment...................very bad things did happen did happen to the fake Sansa in the book and as they have combined their stories (or rather actually given Sansa a story).............

Wow. Just wow. Really? REALLY? We are super pissed off at this point.



Massively disappointed by the writing that was "meh" in episode 5 and turned to utter trash in episode 6. So angry.

/e: Wife threw a book at the wall in anger

People were upset at Jamie rape his sister earlier. No reason for it to go that way but it did.

Well, that was lame.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
The writing has been good, but I think they took a bad turn with the end of this episode.

As I posted on another forum, the second after the credits started, I told my wife that the writers are about to face a gakstorm. Which was probably their goal, but they didn't need to do THAT for shock value and to get people talking.

And it was bad writing to boot. The Sansa character had evolved to the point where it was highly out of character for her to let that happen to her. Just 15 minutes earlier you had the scene in the bath where Sansa was strong, unintimidated, and not a victim.

Could there be a twist coming in the next episode? That would at least excuse the bad writing, although not the trolling for outrage.

This must be a new episode as not sure what this is about?

Uk have not got the latest episode as yet......guessing its a Ramsey / Sansa or similar moment...................very bad things did happen did happen to the fake Sansa in the book and as they have combined their stories (or rather actually given Sansa a story).............

It was fake Arya, IIRC, but you're on track.

 Laemos wrote:
People were upset at Jamie rape his sister earlier. No reason for it to go that way but it did.

Yeah I agreed that that was a odd choice and against character -

if this is about Ramsey / Sansa - well I thought it was inevitable really unless Ramsey's dad stepped in - Ramsey is a deeply horrible person.......usually brilliantly done but he and his girlfriend were already talking about the "wedding night" which had not boded well.

I thought people wanted it to be more like the books? This is exactly what happens to fake Sansa - not seen the episode so can't say how graphic / exploitative it is......

Sansa may have become a bit more assertive but she is a teenage girl at the mercy (or lack of) of the Boltons..............

Oh dear. Looks like Bronne is fethed.



Feminist twitter outrage aside, the Ramsay - Sansa thing makes perfect sense for Ramsay, its exactly the sort of thing that he would do (and does in fact do in the books, but to a different character). Seems they've completely thrown the book Sansa's story arc out the window. Guess they decided it wasn't interesting enough for the show. So really, this had to happen to Sansa, because for intents and purposes she is "Fake Arya", and this is exactly what happened to Fake Arya in the book.

In fact what happened to Jeyne Poole was worse because Ramsay had Reek...lubricate her... for him. <hurls>

Not that I'm saying that this scene was good writing or anything.

 gorgon wrote:
Could there be a twist coming in the next episode? That would at least excuse the bad writing, although not the trolling for outrage.

Assuming that...

[BOOK SPOILER/POSSIBLE TV SPOILER]

 Alpharius wrote:
It looks as if you're bound to be continually disappointed here...

So is Grey Worm.

Yea a part of me wonders with the Sansa/Ramsay scene was there bring back the "grit" or something. You know something like a Red Wedding moment. I mean looking at the previous 5 episodes in this season there wasn't that much grit really for this show.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Oh dear. Looks like Bronne is fethed.

Spoiler:

The Dornish love to poison their weapons. Especially the Red Viper and his daughters.

Feminist twitter outrage aside, the Ramsay - Sansa thing makes perfect sense for Ramsay, its exactly the sort of thing that he would do (and does in fact do in the books, but to a different character). Seems they've completely thrown the book Sansa's story arc out the window. Guess they decided it wasn't interesting enough for the show. So really, this had to happen to Sansa, because for intents and purposes she is "Fake Arya", and this is exactly what happened to Fake Arya in the book.

In fact what happened to Jeyne Poole was worse because Ramsay had Reek...lubricate her... for him. <hurls>

Not that I'm saying that this scene was good writing or anything.

 gorgon wrote:
Could there be a twist coming in the next episode? That would at least excuse the bad writing, although not the trolling for outrage.

Assuming that...

[BOOK SPOILER/POSSIBLE TV SPOILER]

Spoiler:

Mance Rayder really has been killed off for good, and he wasn't switched with someone else disguised by Melisandre to look like him for the execution...Then it means that there is no-one being sent to Winterfell to rescue "Fake Arya"/Sansa. In the books, Mance and a few Spearwives went in disguise to Winterfell to free "Arya", and started offing various Bolton soldiers and servants, creating a climate of fear and distrust.

So maybe Sansa herself will be the "Ghost of Winterfell", and start offing people for revenge. Starting with Miranda.

Thats all I can think of...

 Alpharius wrote:
It looks as if you're bound to be continually disappointed here...

So is Grey Worm.

Agreed - Its Ramsey Bolten / Snow - why did anyone think that was going to go well? He had already said he was looking forward to the wedding night WITH Miranda taking part...........
His dad was cut in the same cloth - yeah I killed your mothers husband, then raped her and nearly had her horsewhipped and you thrown in the moat when she came to me with a son.

Now I guess the really unpleasant stuff is more palatable in the books as its not an actress or actor going through the (often very graphic scenes).

There is of course a certain lady Knight and Stark loyalists nearby - but apparently Sansa needs to climb the really old and dodgy tower and light a candle ................when she has a moment.

I forgot it was fake Arya and not fake Sansa in the books................

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

[BOOK SPOILER/POSSIBLE TV SPOILER]

Spoiler:

Mance Rayder really has been killed off for good, and he wasn't switched with someone else disguised by Melisandre to look like him for the execution...Then it means that there is no-one being sent to Winterfell to rescue "Fake Arya"/Sansa. In the books, Mance and a few Spearwives went in disguise to Winterfell to free "Arya", and started offing various Bolton soldiers and servants, creating a climate of fear and distrust.

So maybe Sansa herself will be the "Ghost of Winterfell", and start offing people for revenge. Starting with Miranda.

Thats all I can think of...

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

[BOOK SPOILER/POSSIBLE TV SPOILER]

Spoiler:

Mance Rayder really has been killed off for good, and he wasn't switched with someone else disguised by Melisandre to look like him for the execution...Then it means that there is no-one being sent to Winterfell to rescue "Fake Arya"/Sansa. In the books, Mance and a few Spearwives went in disguise to Winterfell to free "Arya", and started offing various Bolton soldiers and servants, creating a climate of fear and distrust.

So maybe Sansa herself will be the "Ghost of Winterfell", and start offing people for revenge. Starting with Miranda.

Thats all I can think of...

Spoiler:

I think that the role of Mance may be played by brienne of tarth instead. They did already set that up. So similar situation different characters.

Of course.

Couldn't disagree more about the end of the episode.

Been a bit but I believe Sansa was raped in the book to by Ramsey. It was afterwards that Theon (damn his black soul to eternity!) starts getting back into Theon of old I believe

 Jihadin wrote:
Been a bit but I believe Sansa was raped in the book to by Ramsey. It was afterwards that Theon (damn his black soul to eternity!) starts getting back into Theon of old I believe

It ain't Sansa.

Thanks for the correction

Theon kept the fact that he didn't kill the Stark boys secret last week.

Littlefinger clearly knew something bad would happen when he lied (probably) claiming he knew nothing about Ramsey Bolton.

That certainly was quite the awkward way to end that last episode...

 Vaktathi wrote:
That certainly was quite the awkward way to end that last episode...

Well...at least they didn't play The Bear and the Maiden Fair over the credits...

Was the book that graphic? (I assumed so... and if so, shouldn't we all seen this coming?)

Interesting over the reaction to the rape scene on the Social 'Net... and yet, Theon's castration? Crickets.

 George Spiggott wrote:
Theon kept the fact that he didn't kill the Stark boys secret last week.

Littlefinger clearly knew something bad would happen when he lied (probably) claiming he knew nothing about Ramsey Bolton.

Roose did tell ramsay he needs to keep his habits more discrete telling him people feared him which is not good, stories and whispers start to get around. If anyone knows about Ramsay's hunts, certainly little finger would with his ability to get info.

"A peaceful land, a quiet people. That has always been my rule. Make it yours."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:
Was the book that graphic? (I assumed so... and if so, shouldn't we all seen this coming?)

Interesting over the reaction to the rape scene on the Social 'Net... and yet, Theon's castration? Crickets.

"A peaceful land, a quiet people. That has always been my rule. Make it yours."

Given his descritpion of how he treated Ramsey's mother and ehr husband - slightly ironic...

Watched the most recent episode now - not sure what all the fuss is about...

Its not (IMO) a great episode - the Arya stuf is vaguely interesting but as in the books, it appears to be a indulgent meander into something that seems fairly estorirc and possibly unrelated to any other plot or it might be relevant in some very very distant future - or maybe not..

The Dorne stuff was a major disapointment to myself, and my female friends - bad fight scene, in fact by the standards of previous ones - shockingly so - the vaunted Sand Snakes were pretty laughable and seemed to be operating on no real plan apart from run into garden grab princess. If they had given them some mooks to show their "prowess" (or lack of) it might have helped but it was a very badly filmed fight.

Tyrion and Jorah - best bit in it - no surprise there alongside the chat between Lady Tyrel and Cersi.

The "Trial" was pretty good and sets up some interesting stuff to come.

and then we come to Sansa - niether I nor the girls had any issues with what they did - it all made sense both within the plot and had been forshadowed to a large degree - even Sansa knew pretty much what was coming and it would have been the reality for many teenage girls marrying. I am honestly not sure what else people thought would or indeed could happen. If fact we thought it would have been a cop out to do anything else - Sansa was obviously prepared to sacrifce herself for the greater good etc.

 whembly wrote:
Was the book that graphic? (I assumed so... and if so, shouldn't we all seen this coming?)

Interesting over the reaction to the rape scene on the Social 'Net... and yet, Theon's castration? Crickets.

I know right? so much outrage over one fictitious crime, and zero against another.


I am really hoping theon gets some cumuppance later on,




really enjoying the bronn and jamie story line right now too

 easysauce wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Was the book that graphic? (I assumed so... and if so, shouldn't we all seen this coming?)

Interesting over the reaction to the rape scene on the Social 'Net... and yet, Theon's castration? Crickets.

I know right? so much outrage over one fictitious crime, and zero against another.

Uhm...Theon was a totally hated character who betrayed the family who grew up with. He totally deserved it. Sansa has repeatedly been beaten down and hit in the nuts. In the series, she has been portrayed as an increasingly strong character...but then, rape. Like, come on. The series writers just don't care as much anymore. Jaime, in the books, is a very complex character who has a strong dynamic. In the series? Herp derp, I have a golden hand. The series simplifies the story too much and slaps other character's stories on existing characters, resulting in a mess.

...and who the HELL directed that Dorne fight? That was one of the worst fight scenes I have EVER seen.

 easysauce wrote:
I am really hoping theon gets some cumuppance later on,

Losing his cock wasn't enough?


Oh, and btw...One word:





DISCLAIMER:

Not actually a spoiler as no comeuppance has yet occurred in the books.

 whembly wrote:
Was the book that graphic? (I assumed so... and if so, shouldn't we all seen this coming?)

Interesting over the reaction to the rape scene on the Social 'Net... and yet, Theon's castration? Crickets.

It's because one character was a piece of gak that no one liked, while another character was starting to win fans as she began to stand up for herself and learn how to survive. Until the writers thought it'd be cheaply titillating to ruin that arc and gak all over her again, worse than ever before, while also doubling down this season on rapes that aren't in the books (note that Jeyne <> Sansa, even if Sansa picked up a little of her arc).

I realize this is Dakka, which collectively has an EQ of roughly -17, but this really isn't that hard to figure out.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Uhm...Theon was a totally hated character who betrayed the family who grew up with. He totally deserved it. Sansa has repeatedly been beaten down and hit in the nuts. In the series, she has been portrayed as an increasingly strong character...but then, rape. Like, come on. The series writers just don't care as much anymore. Jaime, in the books, is a very complex character who has a strong dynamic. In the series? Herp derp, I have a golden hand. The series simplifies the story too much and slaps other character's stories on existing characters, resulting in a mess.
.

You must be watching a different show than I am.

Sansa has only 'becoming stronger' in like, the last three episodes. And I think we'll see more of it in her response to her wedding night. Old Sansa would have wilted. I think new Sansa is going to blossom from it. In fact, I think she's going to end up saving Theon, rather than the other way around.

Jaime is incredibly complex in the series. We saw that in his relationship with Brienne. I think we'll see more of that as he interacts with Doran.

I think all of the character blendings have been incredibly strong, thus far. The Jeyne Poole gak was too convoluted. Bringing in Griff would have been introducing another throw away character. I miss Strong Belwas, but he's entirely unneeded.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

Uhm...Theon was a totally hated character who betrayed the family who grew up with. He totally deserved it. Sansa has repeatedly been beaten down and hit in the nuts. In the series, she has been portrayed as an increasingly strong character...but then, rape. Like, come on. The series writers just don't care as much anymore. Jaime, in the books, is a very complex character who has a strong dynamic. In the series? Herp derp, I have a golden hand. The series simplifies the story too much and slaps other character's stories on existing characters, resulting in a mess.
.

You must be watching a different show than I am.

Sansa has only 'becoming stronger' in like, the last three episodes. And I think we'll see more of it in her response to her wedding night. Old Sansa would have wilted. I think new Sansa is going to blossom from it. In fact, I think she's going to end up saving Theon, rather than the other way around.

Jaime is incredibly complex in the series. We saw that in his relationship with Brienne. I think we'll see more of that as he interacts with Doran.

I think all of the character blendings have been incredibly strong, thus far. The Jeyne Poole gak was too convoluted. Bringing in Griff would have been introducing another throw away character. I miss Strong Belwas, but he's entirely unneeded.

Not important at all.

The very first episode of the show had a teenager sexually assaulted by her brother.

A teenage bride is raped by a much older clan lord.

A different brother rapes his sister.

Cersei had talked a few times about how she was raped by Robert.

It is clear that the Mountain smashed babies against walls and raped their mother while their brains are still on his hands.

Threats to rape Arya and any of the other female characters are abundant. Joffrey has threatened to have his guards rape Sansa and threatened to rape her himself after she was married.

Rape as a spoils of war is rampant.

And that's just the show, it is worse in the books.

Why is this the one rape that people are suddenly pissed off about? Is it because instead of someone unknown being raped or someone that isn't liked being raped it was a character people liked?

Because.
Talking is fine, especially if its referencing people you dont know in the books because it is world building.
but the second you do it to a main char, it somehow is wrong, destroys that char and what they are.
But thats the thing GoT is about(other than Tyrion) no one having plot armor. Everyone is a target.

It's worth pointing out that the same character rapes a woman in the same room, for no apparent reason, IN THE PREVIOUS EPISODE and no-one gave a gak! Yeesh, you rape ONE Stark girl...

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Because.
Talking is fine, especially if its referencing people you dont know in the books because it is world building.
but the second you do it to a main char, it somehow is wrong, destroys that char and what they are.
But thats the thing GoT is about(other than Tyrion) no one having plot armor. Everyone is a target.

As noted - apart from the characters involved - what exactly was different about the scene between Drogo and Dany and Ramsey and Sansa.

Both teenage girls, both forced to have sex with an older man to whom they have been sold? Looked the same - in fact much less graphic with Sansa - much younger actress IIRC. What happene dot both girls would have been happening all over the GOT world - its the world they live in. Some people do not seem to get this at all

Plot armour is pretty bad in the books - Jon Snow is built of it, as is Aryia - hell he brings people back to life left right and centre. Then there is all the dozens of pointless characters he keeps throwing in..........

For us, the most recent rape plot made total sense in terms of characters involved - note that Sansa chooses this path - although manipulated by Littlefinger, knows whats likely to happen and accepts it - she doesn not want it but its part of her (perhaps misguided) plan to take back winterfell. Personally I hope they don't "redeem" Theon through this - no need for it and he made his chocies long ago

This may build or destroy Sansa - but she will change.

Big event for me in that episode was the Lannister/Tyrell spat. It seems Cercei is prepared to cut her nose to spite her face, looks like we might be seeing the last of Diana Rig and her awesome one-liners (bearing in mind, I haven't read the book!) and perhaps her foxy daughter as well. It would leave the Lannisters massively weakened without the Tyrell's money and food, but that's the power of vitriol..

Albatross wrote:It's worth pointing out that the same character rapes a woman in the same room, for no apparent reason, IN THE PREVIOUS EPISODE and no-one gave a gak! Yeesh, you rape ONE Stark girl...

Yes, very true! Although, I think the reaction in this episode was due to us having seen her grow from being a child, and although she is an adult now there is still a feeling of naivity and vulnerability about her.

What is true now though is that there is a new 'most hated' in Ramsay, who people will cheer for the demise of in the same way we did Geoffrey.

cincydooley wrote:Couldn't disagree more about the end of the episode.

Spoiler:

It was harrowing and horrible to watch, sure, but I'm don't agree that it's "just awful" or makes Sansa "be the victim" more. In fact, I'd argue that it's something she knew would be coming, something she knew she had to do, and is something that the person she learned the most from outside of her parents (Cersei Lannister) almost certainly had to endure many times. I think it's far too early to say that Sansa is "just the victim" as a result of the ending of the episode, and I think the preview for next week hinted at that considerably (it actually looks like sansa is going to be the one saving Theon, which is fething awesome).

The feminists can get up in arms, but think about it this way: it could be worse. Roose was also entitled to her, as well, and doesn't seem to have taken up his prima nocte rights.

I think the scene between Jorah and Tyrion, where Jorah finds out his father is dead, was brilliant. I also thought the nod to the fighting pits was a great way to tie the worlds together.

I think the scene in Dorne, while perhaps a bit too coincidental and hurried, was very good. I can't see a situation where Jaime doesn't end up working with Doran Martell. I just don't see it happening. And in fact, it gives a lot of credence to the net theories that Jaime is, in fact, the "little brother" Moll was referring to in her prophecy, not Tyrion.

The Arya gak is going a bit slowly, but I think we're almost guaranteed to see the Cat of the Canals story resolve this season, which is good.

Probably the weakest episode of the season, which still makes it better than everything else on TV.

Completely agree.

I wonder now if in calling himself by his given name, Theon might have 'snapped out' of the persona that has been created by Ramsay.

The scene where had tears in his eyes at the end of the last episode almost brought to mind the end of Return of the Jedi, where you were egging him on to step in and save her.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 easysauce wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Was the book that graphic? (I assumed so... and if so, shouldn't we all seen this coming?)

Interesting over the reaction to the rape scene on the Social 'Net... and yet, Theon's castration? Crickets.

I know right? so much outrage over one fictitious crime, and zero against another.

Uhm...Theon was a totally hated character who betrayed the family who grew up with. He totally deserved it. Sansa has repeatedly been beaten down and hit in the nuts. In the series, she has been portrayed as an increasingly strong character...but then, rape. Like, come on. The series writers just don't care as much anymore. Jaime, in the books, is a very complex character who has a strong dynamic. In the series? Herp derp, I have a golden hand. The series simplifies the story too much and slaps other character's stories on existing characters, resulting in a mess.
.

sansa has been a passive pawn of basically everyone... she has absolutely nothing redeeming about her, or at least no more then theon other then being a more liked victim of circumstance... sansa betrayed her sister, and her father (she told cerci on him, resulting in his death, and arguably many others deaths), and was more then happy to dote over geoffrey in the beginning.

Sansa made her mistakes out of fear/naivete as opposed to theon making his mistakes out of misplaced loyalty to his father(and I would also say naivete as well). Very comparable, both had the best of intentions as they themselves saw it, both got betrayed for their troubles, both have been suffering quite a lot too, but the degree to which theon has suffered far FAR surpasses what has happened to sansa.

Having a rough husband you dont like rape you is horrible, no one argues that, but its a cake walk compared to castration not to mention the severe torture theon was, and still is subjected too... remember sansa sleeps in beds for this whole time while theon sleeps with dogs in a fetid enviroment. Its just bonkers to get worked up about the suffering of sansa when she has comparatively been untouched up until this point.


I also dont buy that sansa wed that guy with the impression they would never have sex, or that it would be any kind of fun as his abhorrent character shows through quite quickly. (well acted actually, you really despise that guy i find) sansa knew this when she went along with little fingers plan, and again, acted the part of the pawn. if she didnt know it, then shes even more naive and even more of a pawn.

at least theon tried to do something of his own volition, even if it was stupid/brutal/ect and ended poorly.

This scene wasn't about tearing Sansa down. It was about building Theon up. I'll say no more, due to spoilers and the like.

 djones520 wrote:
This scene wasn't about tearing Sansa down. It was about building Theon up. I'll say no more, due to spoilers and the like.

thats what I got out of it too, theon is slowly waking back up I think, I felt that he was the main focus of the scene.

Not important at all.

So yes, we agree. Not important at all.

 easysauce wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
This scene wasn't about tearing Sansa down. It was about building Theon up. I'll say no more, due to spoilers and the like.

thats what I got out of it too, theon is slowly waking back up I think, I felt that he was the main focus of the scene.

Me too. I wonder if that's the problem people are having with the scene. It's a rape scene that isn't really about either the rapist or the victim, in a way it's almost incidental to the scene. Did the internet explode over the near identical Khal Drogo post wedding scene? It's been a while I don't remember.

Really don't understand what was "graphic" or "awkward" about the final scene. How can it be graphic if you don't actually see anything? Judging from the posts I read on here I was expecting something WAY more brutal than off-camera cries of pain. And awkward? No, playing that ridiculous song after Jamie's hand got cut off was awkward. I thought they handled the scene pretty well, very authentic without being gratuitous or overdoing it.

 djones520 wrote:
This scene wasn't about tearing Sansa down. It was about building Theon up. I'll say no more, due to spoilers and the like.

It weakens Theon's arc quite a bit, actually.

I think the hatred is in the whole "Rape as a plot device" because somehow that is worse than murder or stuff like that.

The phrase that I thought of about Sansa on that scene was 'stoic.'

I do hope that it is used for character development properly for her.

 Compel wrote:
The phrase that I thought of about Sansa on that scene was 'stoic.'

I do hope that it is used for character development properly for her.

Agreed.

I think the hand wringing was really premature, as the use of the scene (and whether it was appropriate or unnecessary) is really going to be contingent on how they grow her (or don't) from here.

Again, I think they will. I think it's her first real "game play." But we'll find out soon enough.

yeah I really hope this mythical sansa that isnt everyone elses pawn starts showing up.

luckily arya and brianne are coming along well, the brianne and her squire have a good arc going on too (forget his name bastard son of the king, blacksmith kid)

 easysauce wrote:
yeah I really hope this mythical sansa that isnt everyone elses pawn starts showing up.

luckily arya and brianne are coming along well, the brianne and her squire have a good arc going on too (forget his name bastard son of the king, blacksmith kid)

You have got the characters mixed up. Pod is her squire and isn't Robert's bastard that is a different character.

 gorgon wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
This scene wasn't about tearing Sansa down. It was about building Theon up. I'll say no more, due to spoilers and the like.

It weakens Theon's arc quite a bit, actually.

Spoiler:

Helping Sansa, a faux-sister whom he knows well, is one thing. He might act out of some sense of guilt after his actions against Winterfell and the Starks, or out of some sense of obligation to Robb.

Helping Jeyne is another thing. There's no obligation or guilt angle there for him. Jeyne is hurting and in need, and he acts. He has a far purer and nobler motive in the books.

Your conflating the book with the TV show though. There is no Jeyne in the tv show, so how can it be weakening his story?

 George Spiggott wrote:

 easysauce wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
This scene wasn't about tearing Sansa down. It was about building Theon up. I'll say no more, due to spoilers and the like.

thats what I got out of it too, theon is slowly waking back up I think, I felt that he was the main focus of the scene.

Me too. I wonder if that's the problem people are having with the scene. It's a rape scene that isn't really about either the rapist or the victim, in a way it's almost incidental to the scene. Did the internet explode over the near identical Khal Drogo post wedding scene? It's been a while I don't remember.

Frankly, we all knew what was coming with Ramsey and there will be some sort of justice out of it.

I really wish people would stop saying Drogo raped Danaerys though. In both mediums, he makes sure she knows he can understand "no" and waits for her consent. He wasn't like the other Dothraki.

People should have thrown fits about Jaime raping Cersei over their son's freshly dead corpse...

 Dr. What wrote:


People should have thrown fits about Jaime raping Cersei over their son's freshly dead corpse...

They did.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Dr. What wrote:


People should have thrown fits about Jaime raping Cersei over their son's freshly dead corpse...

They did.

My bad.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Dr. What wrote:


People should have thrown fits about Jaime raping Cersei over their son's freshly dead corpse...

They did.

what makes it worse, they still insist it was written as consensual

 Mr Morden wrote:

"A peaceful land, a quiet people. That has always been my rule. Make it yours."

Given his descritpion of how he treated Ramsey's mother and ehr husband - slightly ironic...

He's (Roose) pretty quite and careful about his actions, unlike Ramsay. When Roose does something, very few if any knows of his actions. He whispers when he talks out of fear of someone overhearing him and having info spread like wild fire.

When Roose told Ramsay about his mother, particularly in the books, it seemed out of character. Roose has always been in control of his feelings and emotions, he pretty much has none. Ramsay's stupidity seemed to have pissed Roose off.

Yes, in the books Roose and Ramsay' s relationship is a lot more strained. The only reason Roose had Ramsay legitimized and named him heir was because Roose' s trueborn son Domeric died (possibly killed by Ramsay). There are hints that Roose's unborn child with the Frey lady will end up replacing Ramsay. At least that's what Ramsay fears.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Dr. What wrote:


People should have thrown fits about Jaime raping Cersei over their son's freshly dead corpse...

They did.

what makes it worse, they still insist it was written as consensual

It was.

And don't kid yourself. She consents pretty early on in the death room feth session on HBO, too.

Well, it sure didnt seem that way.
I may have to go rewatch it.


Just rewatched the scene.
It isnt consensual, not in the slightest. If by consent you mean the short kiss, then her pushing away, yeah no. Not consent. and he various things of "Stop it" are not consentual.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Yes, in the books Roose and Ramsay' s relationship is a lot more strained. The only reason Roose had Ramsay legitimized and named him heir was because Roose' s trueborn son Domeric died (possibly killed by Ramsay). There are hints that Roose's unborn child with the Frey lady will end up replacing Ramsay. At least that's what Ramsay fears.

Yup. There is a subtle hint that Fat Walda is pregnant but IIRC (it's been several years since I've read it) it never says straight up she is pregnant unlike the show.

He does tell theon that he could never have a legit child as long as Ramsay is alive.



Really wish Roose got a PoV, wanna see what makes him tick. Also wish the cup bearer scene with Arya stayed with Roose rather than Tywin, they were great scenes regardless.

If Domeric were still alive I wonder what part he would play in all this? He seemed nothing like his father from the bits and pieces we get from Roose. He plays the harp, reads a lot and loves horse riding.

Im not getting Ayias thing at all. Is she in training to become some faceless assassin type?

 Ratius wrote:
Im not getting Ayias thing at all. Is she in training to become some faceless assassin type?

Yes.

Sigh. SIGH. SIGH.

So up until episode 6, Sansa was starting to become less of a victim and became stoic, harsh... a woman. The writers then realized that character development is too hard to understand and then had her getting raped...and in episode 7, they decided to seal the deal and let her fall back into her own self of being irresponsible and a victim that needs to be saved.

Dorne continues to be a massive disappointment after the last episode. The writing is just awful. It's bad. Period. Dorne got little screen time and the entire screen time was wasted. Most of the screen time was wasted on pointless nudity to make up for the lazy writing. The entire scene was most likely introduced to set up another poison scene later in the episode.

The Tyrion scenes were not superb, but we're interested in seeing where it all goes.

King's Landig is interesting. Cersei keeps losing herself and bringing the entire city to the brink of ruin. The Septum thing now finally gets to Cersei and they appear to stick to the books on this one. Waiting for naked Cersei! Old Tyrell and Littlefinger back in the saddle. Hoorah!

Stannis faces an important decision which will be an important one for his character, but very little screen time.

Wall boring as ever with Jon riding of and Sam being as much of a loser as always. Not interested in either him or the girl at all. Series finally gets back to the Dagger and still, nobody gets the idea of maybe, maybe, trying to look for more of those weapons Sigh.

Overall episode rating: 5/10

Hey look on the bright side. Next week the White Walkers will be back with a vengeance.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Sigh. SIGH. SIGH.

So up until episode 6, Sansa was starting to become less of a victim and became stoic, harsh... a woman. The writers then realized that character development is too hard to understand and then had her getting raped...and in episode 7, they decided to seal the deal and let her fall back into her own self of being irresponsible and a victim that needs to be saved.

Dude, have you seen the Preview for Ep8? Sansa is pissed!

If I could do what Ramsay did to you, I would!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agWcTyXrjfM

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Dude, have you seen the Preview for Ep8? Sansa is pissed!

Nah, we don't do that. Don't want to spoil ourselves. We remember her taking the sharp thingy, though.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Sigh. SIGH. SIGH.

So up until episode 6, Sansa was starting to become less of a victim and became stoic, harsh... a woman. The writers then realized that character development is too hard to understand and then had her getting raped...and in episode 7, they decided to seal the deal and let her fall back into her own self of being irresponsible and a victim that needs to be saved.

Dorne continues to be a massive disappointment after the last episode. The writing is just awful. It's bad. Period. Dorne got little screen time and the entire screen time was wasted. Most of the screen time was wasted on pointless nudity to make up for the lazy writing. The entire scene was most likely introduced to set up another poison scene later in the episode.

The Tyrion scenes were not superb, but we're interested in seeing where it all goes.

King's Landig is interesting. Cersei keeps losing herself and bringing the entire city to the brink of ruin. The Septum thing now finally gets to Cersei and they appear to stick to the books on this one. Waiting for naked Cersei! Old Tyrell and Littlefinger back in the saddle. Hoorah!

Stannis faces an important decision which will be an important one for his character, but very little screen time.

Wall boring as ever with Jon riding of and Sam being as much of a loser as always. Not interested in either him or the girl at all. Series finally gets back to the Dagger and still, nobody gets the idea of maybe, maybe, trying to look for more of those weapons Sigh.

Overall episode rating: 5/10

I generally agree. The King's Landing plot line made the episode at least interesting to watch. In so far as Sansa goes I not really surprised to be honest. My theory after last week was that what was happening here was one of those "had to give the character something to do moments". So they copied and pasted a plot line from a completely different character in order to give the character and actress playing her something to do, which is lazy writing. Now this sequence is playing about how you would expect given the characters involved but overall the whole sequence feels like to me like something we have already seen. Sansa was already in a situation where she was the victim of a sadist and needed other people to save her, it is called the first few seasons with her and Joffrey. I feel we have seen this before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Hey look on the bright side. Next week the White Walkers will be back with a vengeance.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Sigh. SIGH. SIGH.

So up until episode 6, Sansa was starting to become less of a victim and became stoic, harsh... a woman. The writers then realized that character development is too hard to understand and then had her getting raped...and in episode 7, they decided to seal the deal and let her fall back into her own self of being irresponsible and a victim that needs to be saved.

Dude, have you seen the Preview for Ep8? Sansa is pissed!

If I could do what Ramsay did to you, I would!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agWcTyXrjfM

Yea but given the situation, pissed or not what does she do here that doesn't involve being the victim that someone else has to save?

Great episode in what has been a great season!

The scenes at the wall were interesting and well paced. Can't wait to watch Snow and Tormund make their way North.

Really well played in Winterfell, with Sansa realizing that she's going to have to save herself if she wants to be saved. Furthers the idea that she's going to be the one to save Theon, and not the other way around.

The interactions between the Snakes and Bronn was interesting, and definitely more so than in the books. I think the interaction with Doran, the Snakes, and Jaime is going to be really cool going forward. I look forward, also, to learning why Tyene spared Bronn. Very cool indeed.

The scenes in Kings Landing were phenomenal. Diana Rigg and Pryce just killed every scene. And then Pryce with Heady was nearly as good.

Love seeing Tyrion beat the gak out of the slaver to prove his worth. Tyrion is very much turning into an angry little bulldog. And the scene in the pits....awesome.

Really great episode that was beautifully shot that really set up a lot of cool stuff moving forward.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

Yea but given the situation, pissed or not what does she do here that doesn't involve being the victim that someone else has to save?

Seriously?

Clearly the scene was intended to show that if she wants to be saved, she's going to have to do it herself.

Pretty blatant.

I've found this series to be really slow going so far. Feels like it's gone back to the first couple of series problem of being all build up with the pay off in episode nine. I'll bet a small fortune we have to wait until then for stannis to get to winterfell.

It's got to the point that there's more characters I don't care about than ones I do.

This is the worst season by a long shot so far. It's not a great part in the books either (they were slooooow at this point), but the writers are all over the place. Echoing what others already said, it really seems like they just don't know how to properly write a series or rather stick to the quality the series established and in the parts they had to write themselves, they thus decided to repeat what has already been in order to avoid making mistakes.

We were super excited at first after they announced to loosen themselves from the books as this also mean not knowing what will happen for GoT fans, but the last few episodes are a sad sign for the writers not being up to the job. All good scenes in the last few episodes were book scenes. By dumbing the book story down for a TV series, they just seem to get confused.

Here's hoping for them to get their stuff back together for season 6 (as I believe they've already got season 5 fully done).

But alas, naked Cersei soon.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

Yea but given the situation, pissed or not what does she do here that doesn't involve being the victim that someone else has to save?

Seriously?

Clearly the scene was intended to show that if she wants to be saved, she's going to have to do it herself.

Pretty blatant.

All I saw man was that she was pissed at Theon. Which given that Theon told Ramsy on her and got her only connection to her allies tortured and killed, it is a totally understandable reaction.

I would LOVE to see Sansa save herself mind you, it is just I have my doubts. That said Sansa did grab what seemed to be a woodworking tool when she was on the wall with Ramsey, so maybe she will try to defend herself who knows.

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

Yea but given the situation, pissed or not what does she do here that doesn't involve being the victim that someone else has to save?

Seriously?

Clearly the scene was intended to show that if she wants to be saved, she's going to have to do it herself.

Pretty blatant.

All I saw man was that she was pissed at Theon. Which given that Theon told Ramsy on her and got her only connection to her allies tortured and killed, it is a totally understandable reaction.

I would LOVE to see Sansa save herself mind you, it is just I have my doubts. That said Sansa did grab what seemed to be a woodworking tool when she was on the wall with Ramsey, so maybe she will try to defend herself who knows.

If in the next episode, she is about to stab Bolton and is then stopped by a henchman, I'll be pissed. We'd have gone full circle then as the exact same thing happened with her and Joffrey / The Hound before.

Agreed that its been a slow season this one. Nothing has really grabbed me and they havent taken many big steps forward either.

"Jon Snow became Lord Commander and rides off to the Wildlings trying to make them his allies."

That's the entire Wall sub-plot after 7 episodes

This has been a fantastic season. I guess I'm just looking for different things in my television than you are.

I've thoroughly enjoyed this season so far. I'm an episode behind as the wife and I watch when we get the chance and sometimes that can be a few days. But based on what I've seen so far the writers seem to be doing an excellent job of turning crap material into good TV.

I've said it over and over again. The first 3 books in A Song of Fire and Ice are some of the best fantasy I have ever read. Books 4 and 5 took all that good work and made me loathe the author.

The fact that I'm enjoying the show greatly at this point (well into the bad writing) says all it needs to for me about the writers of the show.

Also I didn't feel like Sansa was a "victim" in Episode 6. She knew it was likely coming (bet she appreciates Tyrion now) and did her "duty". I'm interested in this newest episode. We'll see if it continues to be excellent TV or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
"Jon Snow became Lord Commander and rides off to the Wildlings trying to make them his allies."

That's the entire Wall sub-plot after 7 episodes

Shows about people wanting to be in charge. Entire plot of the show for 5 seasons. See, I can oversimplify too

 cincydooley wrote:
This has been a fantastic season. I guess I'm just looking for different things in my television than you are.

Here is the thing, this season is still good television and I am still look forward to next Sunday. I just think it is probably the weakest season of this show for me. If seasons 1-4 where A+ television then this season gets a A-. That may all change of course sense we do have 3 whole episodes to go.

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
This has been a fantastic season. I guess I'm just looking for different things in my television than you are.

Here is the thing, this season is still good television and I am still look forward to next Sunday. I just think it is probably the weakest season of this show for me. If seasons 1-4 where A+ television then this season gets a A-. That may all change of course sense we do have 3 whole episodes to go.

This I can agree with mostly. I feel like season 1 may actually be worse but because of my excitement for the show in general I rate it higher than it actually deserves. Don't know though. At some point I'll go back and power watch everything because you can do that fairly easily when it's just 10 episodes per season.

 cincydooley wrote:
This has been a fantastic season. I guess I'm just looking for different things in my television than you are.

The season is a notable drop-off from the previous ones. This is partly because there just is less interesting stuff about to happen (same as in the books), but also because the show tries to loosen its ties to the book and suffers from bad writing in those parts.

Poor, poor Jorah...


Anyways, it was revealed before this season started that a main character, (ie: one of the cast who appear in the opening credits), will be permanently killed off this season - as in, the actor will NOT! be returning.
While we've already lost Selmy, he's not a series reg, and there's still plenty of contenders, including the likes of Stannis, Bronn & Jorah (please no!)

Any theories/educated guesses on who's going to join the very lengthy list of Game of In Memoriums?!

Personally I'm thinking it's going to be Stannis, especially considering where his character is at in the books at this point.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
This has been a fantastic season. I guess I'm just looking for different things in my television than you are.

Here is the thing, this season is still good television and I am still look forward to next Sunday. I just think it is probably the weakest season of this show for me. If seasons 1-4 where A+ television then this season gets a A-. That may all change of course sense we do have 3 whole episodes to go.

This I can agree with mostly. I feel like season 1 may actually be worse but because of my excitement for the show in general I rate it higher than it actually deserves. Don't know though. At some point I'll go back and power watch everything because you can do that fairly easily when it's just 10 episodes per season.

I really liked season 1 mainly because I have always liked Sean Bean as an actor and I think he did a good job. I have never read the book though, so the only way I knew anything about this series was playing the LCG at gen con when it was released awhile ago.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
This has been a fantastic season. I guess I'm just looking for different things in my television than you are.

The season is a notable drop-off from the previous ones. This is partly because there just is less interesting stuff about to happen (same as in the books), but also because the show tries to loosen its ties to the book and suffers from bad writing in those parts.

Well, that's the good thing about opinions: we all have them.

I agree with Cincy on this one though... I too have thought that, so far, this has been a great season. Yes, there have been ups and downs and great moments and not so great moments, but the entire series has been like that. I also agree with the fact that the first three books are easily some of the best fantasy of the modern era but books four and five sucked. I much prefer what this show is doing over what the books did with this part of the story.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Yes, there have been ups and downs and great moments and not so great moments, but the entire series has been like that. I also agree with the fact that the first three books are easily some of the best fantasy of the modern era but books four and five sucked. I much prefer what this show is doing over what the books did with this part of the story.

Agree 100%. I think they took what was a lot of crap in books 4 & 5 and made it interesting. The fact that we actually have important characters meeting is awesome.

The fact that Sansa is actually doing SOMETHING is awesome.

I agree with pretty much all of the character omissions/combinations, as there are simply too many characters in the book that GRRM admittedly forgets about and backs himself into situations where we don't know what the hell to do with them (like Gendry in the GoT series...).

I mean, thank the 7 that they're moving Mereen forward. What a narrative gak show that is in the novels.

Just to point out: GoT still is a lot better than everything that runs in regular TV. If it was a regular series, I'd rate the latest episode a 8 or 9 out of 10. The actors are still doing an amazing job, scenery is awesome etc.

In comparison to the previous seasons, however, this season falls short by a long shot. The entire Dorn part, so far, has just been terrible. Not only was the writing just trash, the fight scene at the palace was horribly choreographed and threw us right back in the early 80s.

lol dorn so far has been awesome to me!

 Sigvatr wrote:
Just to point out: GoT still is a lot better than everything that runs in regular TV. If it was a regular series, I'd rate the latest episode a 8 or 9 out of 10. The actors are still doing an amazing job, scenery is awesome etc.

In comparison to the previous seasons, however, this season falls short by a long shot. The entire Dorn part, so far, has just been terrible. Not only was the writing just trash, the fight scene at the palace was horribly choreographed and threw us right back in the early 80s.

You sound a lot like a Forbes article I read...

I do agree that Dorne is the weakest part of the plot currently, mainly because there just hasn't been much going on there (I'll forgive the the convenience of Jamie and Bronn meeting the Sand Snakes at the same time, that gak always happens in TV/movies).

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Just to point out: GoT still is a lot better than everything that runs in regular TV. If it was a regular series, I'd rate the latest episode a 8 or 9 out of 10. The actors are still doing an amazing job, scenery is awesome etc.

In comparison to the previous seasons, however, this season falls short by a long shot. The entire Dorn part, so far, has just been terrible. Not only was the writing just trash, the fight scene at the palace was horribly choreographed and threw us right back in the early 80s.

You sound a lot like a Forbes article I read...

I do agree that Dorne is the weakest part of the plot currently, mainly because there just hasn't been much going on there (I'll forgive the the convenience of Jamie and Bronn meeting the Sand Snakes at the same time, that gak always happens in TV/movies).

It's not just the lack of anything happening. The writing is trash. Starting with the two super agents (...) somehow making it in the palance without any problems at all. No guards checking on them in their blood-ridden clothes. The duo's entire plan was to just...waltz into the palace and take the girl. Then the super convenience of the three groups meeting at the exact same second. All vipers look the same to let even the dumbest viewer realize that they're sisters...despite all of 'em having different mothers. The series gets it across that all women are somehow dark-skinned and have dark hair. Which just isn't the case. The fight scene...terrible. Just terrible. Extremely poor choreography on Power Rangers or Xena, the Warrior Princess level. Seriously. In this episode, the Bron scene. Why? It established nothing. How long was it? 5 minutes? More? All it did was, likely, setting up another poison scene. Other than that, it was slapped on to get some nudity in. We had two face-to-hip shots right after each other. Literally. Full shot, over to Bronne, same shot again. Why? Sure, nothing wrong with showing breasts. Showing them just to get attention to an otherwise pointless scene is just lazy writing. It's like adding a rape scene to...oh, wait.

Short quiz: who is bald, has no balls and has been completely forgotten by the writers so far?

/e: Hahaha oh wow. That Forbes article DOES sound like me. Even got the 90s reference in it!

Regarding the Dornish Plot, I think Elio Garcia put it best.

[Paraphrased]The Sand Snakes were horribly miscast. They chose actors who have absolutely no physicality to them, no experience of Theatrical stage fighting and so the choreography suffers for it.

Their Episode 6 Review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcnwhMrVJjg

dear god... that review is longer then the espisode...

its like a nerdvana

Theon didn't exactly go running to Ramsay blabbling everything. Ramsay already knew.

Remember that old lady who passed a message to Sansa and reminded her she still had friends in the North loyal to the Starks? Ramsay caught her, and flayed her. She didn't give Sansa up, but he knew something was going on. Somehow, Ramsay was waiting for Theon in the broken tower. Ramsay caught Theon in the act of trying to send a signal to Brienne. And once caught, the last thing Theon wanted was to be flayed again.

Sansa did get through to Theon, he was going to help her, but got caught red handed and Ramsay scared him into telling the truth (really, who wouldn't be?).

 easysauce wrote:
dear god... that review is longer then the espisode...

its like a nerdvana

You clearly don't know who they are, do you?

These people help GRRM edit his own books. When GRRM forgets the eye colour of an obscure character, or the gender of someone's horse (The Hound), they are the ones who remind him and correct him. They wrote the official Song Of Ice and Fire guidebook, "The World of Ice and Fire". After GRRM himself, Elio Garcia and Linda Antonsson are probably the two people in the world who know the most about the Ice and Fire universe.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-World-Ice-Fire-Westeros/dp/0007580916

Calling them Nerds is like calling the Pope a devout Christian.

Good episode, though we need abit more King jeoffry to beat the sparrow. That or worlds most dangerous old woman with littlefinger combined is a dangerous potential team.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Theon didn't exactly go running to Ramsay blabbling everything. Ramsay already knew.

Remember that old lady who passed a message to Sansa and reminded her she still had friends in the North loyal to the Starks? Ramsay caught her, and flayed her. She didn't give Sansa up, but he knew something was going on. Somehow, Ramsay was waiting for Theon in the broken tower. Ramsay caught Theon in the act of trying to send a signal to Brienne. And once caught, the last thing Theon wanted was to be flayed again.

Sansa did get through to Theon, he was going to help her, but got caught red handed and Ramsay scared him into telling the truth (really, who wouldn't be?).

 easysauce wrote:
dear god... that review is longer then the espisode...

its like a nerdvana

You clearly don't know who they are, do you?

These people help GRRM edit his own books. When GRRM forgets the eye colour of an obscure character, or the gender of someone's horse (The Hound), they are the ones who remind him and correct him. They wrote the official Song Of Ice and Fire guidebook, "The World of Ice and Fire". After GRRM himself, Elio Garcia and Linda Antonsson are probably the two people in the world who know the most about the Ice and Fire universe.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-World-Ice-Fire-Westeros/dp/0007580916

Calling them Nerds is like calling the Pope a devout Christian.

lol hence "nerdvana"

Ie nirvana,

IE the highest level of nerd you can get! Besides, christian, catholic, same diff! its just like scotland and ireland

they do good work OBS and its really hard to keep continuity straight in works as they get larger.

these two have to have basically beat the entire internet of nerds at being a nerd, lest a character have blue eyes in the show vs brown in the book, which would lead to the internet exploding.


nerds a term of endearment to me,

its also a delicious snack!

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Theon didn't exactly go running to Ramsay blabbling everything. Ramsay already knew.

Remember that old lady who passed a message to Sansa and reminded her she still had friends in the North loyal to the Starks? Ramsay caught her, and flayed her. She didn't give Sansa up, but he knew something was going on. Somehow, Ramsay was waiting for Theon in the broken tower. Ramsay caught Theon in the act of trying to send a signal to Brienne. And once caught, the last thing Theon wanted was to be flayed again.

Sansa did get through to Theon, he was going to help her, but got caught red handed and Ramsay scared him into telling the truth (really, who wouldn't be?).

You sure? I looked at a few articles summing up last nights episode and they all seemed to be convinced Theon betrayed Sansa and went straight to Ramsay. Besides I thought the "broken tower" was the same place that Brandon was pushed off in the first episode by Jamie and had a big open window with no glass. Bad place to be be during a snowstorm.

From what Ramsey said when Theon walked in the door, I got the impression that Theon was helping sansa, but that ramsey already knew and was laying in wait.

 easysauce wrote:
From what Ramsey said when Theon walked in the door, I got the impression that Theon was helping sansa, but that ramsey already knew and was laying in wait.

Ok I just re-watched the scene it is very clear to me that Theon went to Ramsay not the broken tower. When Theon is in the courtyard he looks to the broken tower, they then do a reverse shot back at Theon through the window of the tower which has an open window with no glass so the snow is probably inside the tower. Then Theon climbs the steps and Ramsay is sitting in a clearly different tower with glass on the windows. Theon doesn't look surprised to me, Ramsay does asking "what it is it Reek?". Also the article on Forbes for the review of the episode seems to agree.

She is locked in her room when Reek brings her food. Bruises cover her arms. She begs the man who was once Theon to help her, makes him promise to light a candle in the tower so that someone will come to save her.

But instead he goes to his master, Ramsay.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/05/25/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-7-review-the-gift/

You guys seem to fallen for the obvious tease where they make you think that Theon is actually going to help Sansa by having him look at the tower in the distance and then we see him climbing some steps but it is a different tower.

Edit: Broken not old tower.

Just watched the episode - great improvement on last weeks so so one in our opinion and still a thousand times better than the books at this point !

The acting is really good and again casting is excellent - the writers should be comended in extracting the very few good plots from the turgid last books and making something of them.

I would agree that the Dorne bits were /are the weakest (well without Aria's story) - Bron is fun but it did seem to be an excuse for some T+A - again.
Sansa was well done and all made sense - Ramsey is just such a cool bad guy
Well Cersi is now reapig the whirlwind - be interesting how they resolve this as threats of armies and food supply are not likely to sway the High Septon it seems - need a faceless man I think.
Good bit with Stannis - interesting twist

SOooooo glad they didn't cop out like GRM and actually had Tyrion meet Dany - thank god - hopefully this will lead to interesting stuff -and she does not just throw them in jail.

Also if Dany listens to her lover about dealing with the Masters - that might quieten her city - as he said - you are either a butcher or meat.....

Reek is a traitor - a broken one who now knows his master.........

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
From what Ramsey said when Theon walked in the door, I got the impression that Theon was helping sansa, but that ramsey already knew and was laying in wait.

Ok I just re-watched the scene it is very clear to me that Theon went to Ramsay not the old tower. When Theon is in the courtyard he looks to the old tower, they then do a reverse shot back and reek through the window of the tower which has an open window with no glass so the snow is probably inside the tower. Then Theon climbs the steps and Ramsay is sitting in a clearly different tower with glass on the windows. Theon doesn't look surprised to me, Ramsay does asking "what it is it Reek?". Also the article on Forbes for the review of the episode seems to agree.

She is locked in her room when Reek brings her food. Bruises cover her arms. She begs the man who was once Theon to help her, makes him promise to light a candle in the tower so that someone will come to save her.

But instead he goes to his master, Ramsay.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/05/25/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-7-review-the-gift/

You guys seem to fallen for the obvious tease where they make you think that Theon is actually going to help Sansa by having him look at the tower in the distance and then we see him climbing some steps but it is a different tower.

I agree.

You can tell as soon Theon opens door; he isn't in the broken tower. The broken tower was burned out by a fire following a lightening strike 140 years ago and was never rebuilt. Ramsay was sitting, presumably enjoying a fine meal, in a fully furnished room awaiting Theon.

 Dr. What wrote:
I really wish people would stop saying Drogo raped Danaerys though. In both mediums, he makes sure she knows he can understand "no" and waits for her consent. He wasn't like the other Dothraki.

You an I were clearly watching different scenes. The book is a different matter. The Dothraki in the TV series were probably the worst thing about the first series. Rubbish one dimensional 'other' culture.

So um...

Noones talking about how..

You must have gotten something wrong, she is still waiting outside, claiming that Sansa is in danger...

 Compel wrote:
So um...

Noones talking about how..

Spoiler:

Brienne is dead? I thought there'd be a bigger thing about that, considering how long running a character she is and how she seemed to be holding a lot of cards. We don't even see how it happened.

That's not Brienne. Brienne is alive and well - she's not even in Winterfell, she's in or near the tavern outside Winterfell where Ros the red head whore worked. The woman Ramsay flayed was the old woman who speaks to Sansa and reassures her that the Starks still have loyal friends in the North. IIRC it was the old lady who passed on the message from Brienne to leave a candle in the window of the tower.

The old lady just happens to be blond too, which is probably why you're confused. Or Gray. I forget.

Ah, that makes much more sense...

Stupid night-time lighting...

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
From what Ramsey said when Theon walked in the door, I got the impression that Theon was helping sansa, but that ramsey already knew and was laying in wait.

Ok I just re-watched the scene it is very clear to me that Theon went to Ramsay not the old tower. When Theon is in the courtyard he looks to the old tower, they then do a reverse shot back and reek through the window of the tower which has an open window with no glass so the snow is probably inside the tower. Then Theon climbs the steps and Ramsay is sitting in a clearly different tower with glass on the windows. Theon doesn't look surprised to me, Ramsay does asking "what it is it Reek?". Also the article on Forbes for the review of the episode seems to agree.

She is locked in her room when Reek brings her food. Bruises cover her arms. She begs the man who was once Theon to help her, makes him promise to light a candle in the tower so that someone will come to save her.

But instead he goes to his master, Ramsay.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/05/25/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-7-review-the-gift/

You guys seem to fallen for the obvious tease where they make you think that Theon is actually going to help Sansa by having him look at the tower in the distance and then we see him climbing some steps but it is a different tower.

I agree.

You can tell as soon Theon opens door; he isn't in the broken tower. The broken tower was burned out by a fire following a lightening strike 140 years ago and was never rebuilt. Ramsay was sitting, presumably enjoying a fine meal, in a fully furnished room awaiting Theon.

Hmm now I think you are right, re watching it it does seem like a bit of a misdirection with the cuts to the towers, I couldnt tell the rooms apart but Ill take you for your word that its noticeably different inside.

things are wierd in the bolton household... I can see ramsey killing his father and pretty much anyone else at some point. Glad I never read the books, im starting to think this might be the one series where the show is the better of the two so should be watched first as opposed to things like the hobbit/LOTR

I cheered the church on when they got Cersei cornered. The Nude Walk of shame for her

 easysauce wrote:
Glad I never read the books, im starting to think this might be the one series where the show is the better of the two so should be watched first as opposed to things like the hobbit/LOTR

The first three books are really good. I highly encourage you to read them. Then stop there if you don't want to start getting bogged down.

This show is, in some ways, better than the books only in that it cuts the fat and moves forward. We will see HBO bring the series to a conclusion far before GRRM even finishes the next book.

Seconding this. The first three books are very well-written and easily are the best piece of fantasy literature since Tolkien. Books 4 and 5, however, are bad. Really bad. Boring as hell, nothing happens at all. It's one of the reasons why the current TV season is the worst by a long shot, there just isn't much to work with.

 Sigvatr wrote:
This is the worst season by a long shot so far.

Unfortunately it has been the weakest.

I didn't think anything could be worse than the bore-fest that is the Danny POV, but the Sand Snakes arc is just horrible. Acting is poor and that sword fight was poorly choreographed.

Still better than 90 percent of the other crap on TV, which is reality tv shows on every channel.

 pretre wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
Glad I never read the books, im starting to think this might be the one series where the show is the better of the two so should be watched first as opposed to things like the hobbit/LOTR

The first three books are really good. I highly encourage you to read them. Then stop there if you don't want to start getting bogged down.

This show is, in some ways, better than the books only in that it cuts the fat and moves forward. We will see HBO bring the series to a conclusion far before GRRM even finishes the next book.

sorry i mis spoke, I never read the books before I watched the shows.

Currently on the 2nd book, the intention is to watch it first though, they are good books though! makes me hope for some RA salvatore TV or film adaptions though, drizzt would make for some good watching I bet.

I agree with anyone saying this season has been pretty bad.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Seconding this. The first three books are very well-written and easily are the best piece of fantasy literature since Tolkien. Books 4 and 5, however, are bad. Really bad. Boring as hell, nothing happens at all. It's one of the reasons why the current TV season is the worst by a long shot, there just isn't much to work with.

Easily the best since Tolkien.... is generous.

I'm not going to agree or disagree but it is a commonly held enough belief. The only others that tend to be even held near the same level are 'The Dark Tower' and the Wheel Of Time series.

 Piston Honda wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
This is the worst season by a long shot so far.

Unfortunately it has been the weakest.

I didn't think anything could be worse than the bore-fest that is the Danny POV, but the Sand Snakes arc is just horrible. Acting is poor and that sword fight was poorly choreographed.

Still better than 90 percent of the other crap on TV, which is reality tv shows on every channel.

It could be worse - they could have followed the books faithfully this season - that would have been an actual disaster - terrible pointless plots and characters, sea changes in established characters - the most recent books are some of the worst books I have read for a long time - glad I got rid of them. The first few books are indeed excellent novels and an extremely good fantasy sequence - one, however amongst many - old and new.

The Sand Snakes are pretty poorly done - but everything else is in mine and my various friends opinion brilliant - with the possible exception of Aria's story - which , like the books - seems to be a total indulgence to keep GRM happy and seems to have little chance of actually being relevant.

Dany in the show is three million times better than the pathetic pinning sulky, indecisive teenage that GRM reverted her to in the recent books.....

I would say that Terry Pratchett, Neil Gaiman, Brandon Sanderson, Glen Cook, Joe Abercrombie and R. Scott Bakker all tell a better story and on average write better books than Mr. Martin. Writing two and a half really good books out of five published is not that resounding of an achievement. This just happens to be one of those things that catches in our collective consciousness.

I'm not saying people can't or shouldn't like the series, but lets face it, no matter how much you liked the first three - the last two drag the average down pretty hardcore and pretending otherwise is silly.

No one has said that it's the best SERIES since Tolkien. They said the first 3 books are some of the best since Tolkien (i.e. the last two aren't included). Obviously the last two drag the series down on the overall.

I enjoyed the first 4 seasons of the show because it was about the books. I'm now enjoying the newer seasons because they AREN'T the books

Is anyone else expecting Aemon Targaryen's funeral to have a shock ending next week?

If it does what are they going to do with the body?

 George Spiggott wrote:
Is anyone else expecting Aemon Targaryen's funeral to have a shock ending next week?

If it does what are they going to do with the body?

Didn't the funeral happen this week? They burned the old guy.

 George Spiggott wrote:
Is anyone else expecting Aemon Targaryen's funeral to have a shock ending next week?

If it does what are they going to do with the body?

His watch has ended in the last episode.

I am glad I am not the only one who has seen the decline in quality.

I wonder if it is because the man was decaying and really can't think of a great plot or characters well as he has killed most of the best and most well developed characters.

I mean sir Barristan just dying randomly was just dumb and out of nowhere and is boring. I mean compared to the books tyrion is still trying to meet Dany.

The feast of crows was a long book and one of the worst in the series.

 Asherian Command wrote:


I mean sir Barristan just dying randomly was just dumb and out of nowhere and is boring. I mean compared to the books tyrion is still trying to meet Dany.

Barristan served exactly zero unique purpose that can't be replaced when Tyrion becomes an advisor.

And the fact that Tyrion is still trying to meet Dany is a part of what makes those most recent two books so meandering and insufferable.

Thank goodness they sped that up in the show.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:


I mean sir Barristan just dying randomly was just dumb and out of nowhere and is boring. I mean compared to the books tyrion is still trying to meet Dany.

Barristan served exactly zero unique purpose that can't be replaced when Tyrion becomes an advisor.

And the fact that Tyrion is still trying to meet Dany is a part of what makes those most recent two books so meandering and insufferable.

Thank goodness they sped that up in the show.

Yeah but Sir Barristan just randomly died.

Like there was no foreshadowing there was no build up he just randomly died.

The worst part is that the series breaks with the entire lore...again. Not only the lore the books established, but also the one it established itself. If you first introduced a character as a badass swordsman and then have him die to a bunch of thugs, then you're a bad writer (team). The entire scene was just dumb to begin with, established nothing and was just a filler segment.

 Sigvatr wrote:
The worst part is that the series breaks with the entire lore...again. Not only the lore the books established, but also the one it established itself. If you first introduced a character as a badass swordsman and then have him die to a bunch of thugs, then you're a bad writer (team). The entire scene was just dumb to begin with, established nothing and was just a filler segment.

No one has mentioned him since.

I thought it was dumb. It broke from the canon so much that I was like "This is stupid."

Why? WHY?