So I bought a starter set off of ebay the other day and I remember you guys saying the sprue construction was hard to get the together. Well wow, now I see. There are sooooo many unnecessary break ups for the pieces its ridiculous. I felt like Maclomb Reynolds in the movie serenity when he saw the hub to launch the video to the rest of the galaxy when he said "hard to get to". I feel confident I can make them look ok but I keep wondering to myself why they broke up certain pieces for a starter.
I don't think conventional wargaming circles are going to ever express much interest in playing the game. There are too many issues with the models, rules, and the company selling it. That said I think if you branch out a bit you can probably find robotech fans in off the wall places that would give the game a go.
While they are not difficult to build as I have built minis harder than that, that being said there are a lot of unnecessary parts for sure. There are also parts that are so thin they break very easily (im looking at you recon pod).
Are there worse? Yes. But are these obnoxious in ways they didn't need to be? Also yes. Are the rules the worst thing ever written? No. Are they great? I wouldn't say so, but my experience is limited. Are PB the worst company in the world? No. Are they faffing about for years and undermining *any* confidence in them doing anything to officially support this game beyond that which their fans will do for them and that they're essentially cornered into doing? Also no.
Was there a market for this product line in 2013? Obviously! Is it as strong in 2016? Not at all. Will it be even smaller in 2017-2020-WhenTheSunGoesNova? Probably not.
It's wasted potential. If they'd been remotely realistic about their production times (and yes, this requires believing they were full of gak or didn't do their homework around launch time), if they'd shown more respect for the community by actually being honest about where things were and what they were doing to fix them, maybe something could be salvaged.
They didn't need to be The Biggest Thing To Hit Gaming Of Our Lifetime, there are viable niches in gaming all over the place, where a steady release schedule and moderate support can translate into a comfortable profit margin.
But "wave 1 in 2014, wave 2 maybe 3 or 4 or 10 years later" isn't going to drive interest, and if they'd done their research leading up to the campaign, or paid attention over the past few years, they'd know that.
Forar wrote: But "wave 1 in 2014, wave 2 maybe 3 or 4 or 10 years later" isn't going to drive interest, and if they'd done their research leading up to the campaign, or paid attention over the past few years, they'd know that.
I suspect from day one the horse and the cart never matched; One stakeholder wants to create a miniature wargame, another wants to create a RPG supplement (or was forced to by licensing). The two types of products have different product release strategies and lead times due to a different customer base and expectations -- and let's be honest here, even at its best, PB's RPG product release strategy is more of "over-promise, under-deliver", at least in terms of time-to-market.
What I perceive is a lot of misunderstanding of product positioning by the various stakeholders. When the wargaming stakeholder withdrew -- either as planned or as part of a disagreement isn't relevant -- PB is left holding a ball that they don't know how to handle, and more importantly, is only really half-hearted at learning how to handle. The results are inevitably going to be bad, and their poor PR skills made it a train wreck that we just can't stop watching.
The background fluff is epic enough, the designs interesting enough, the rules can be improved enough... but the failure of the manufacturer to work the necessary enough is nail enough in the coffin.
Forar wrote: But "wave 1 in 2014, wave 2 maybe 3 or 4 or 10 years later" isn't going to drive interest, and if they'd done their research leading up to the campaign, or paid attention over the past few years, they'd know that.
I suspect from day one the horse and the cart never matched; One stakeholder wants to create a miniature wargame, another wants to create a RPG supplement (or was forced to by licensing). The two types of products have different product release strategies and lead times due to a different customer base and expectations -- and let's be honest here, even at its best, PB's RPG product release strategy is more of "over-promise, under-deliver", at least in terms of time-to-market.
What I perceive is a lot of misunderstanding of product positioning by the various stakeholders. When the wargaming stakeholder withdrew -- either as planned or as part of a disagreement isn't relevant -- PB is left holding a ball that they don't know how to handle, and more importantly, is only really half-hearted at learning how to handle. The results are inevitably going to be bad, and their poor PR skills made it a train wreck that we just can't stop watching.
The background fluff is epic enough, the designs interesting enough, the rules can be improved enough... but the failure of the manufacturer to work the necessary enough is nail enough in the coffin.
Like I said before a long time ago, PB came into this treating it like another RPG product not realizing RPG's and miniature games and gamers are two wholly different breeds, what may fly for RPG players will not fly with Miniature players and will quickly kill a game.
Asterios wrote: Like I said before a long time ago, PB came into this treating it like another RPG product not realizing RPG's and miniature games and gamers are two wholly different breeds, what may fly for RPG players will not fly with Miniature players and will quickly kill a game.
That's not even half of it.
If PB wanted to treat this like a RPG product, they could have gone with single pose minis just to represent the mecha, possibly with some variants to keep it looking fresh on the table. DDM went that route and was successful; Pathfinder, to my understanding, went that route and has at least limited success that I am aware of. Dust, as a table-top game went that route and can still be considered successful. They could have simplified things with a hex/ grid map and kept it in line with other RPG miniatures products.
Instead they tunnel-visioned into a HIPS, multi-part models which even experienced companies can get wrong, complete with a complex rule set and a tabletop terrain choice that ensured a dearth of RPG support products to compliment the rollout.
Even treating RRT as a RPG product shows up deficiencies in their understanding of the RPG miniature users, which I think it's safe to say is a complementary part of their core customers. They couldn't even get the product right for at least a segment of their core customers. I'm not even sure I can say PB understands their own core customers, or is a relevant force in their core business any more.
Asterios wrote: Like I said before a long time ago, PB came into this treating it like another RPG product not realizing RPG's and miniature games and gamers are two wholly different breeds, what may fly for RPG players will not fly with Miniature players and will quickly kill a game.
That's not even half of it.
If PB wanted to treat this like a RPG product, they could have gone with single pose minis just to represent the mecha, possibly with some variants to keep it looking fresh on the table. DDM went that route and was successful; Pathfinder, to my understanding, went that route and has at least limited success that I am aware of. Dust, as a table-top game went that route and can still be considered successful. They could have simplified things with a hex/ grid map and kept it in line with other RPG miniatures products.
Instead they tunnel-visioned into a HIPS, multi-part models which even experienced companies can get wrong, complete with a complex rule set and a tabletop terrain choice that ensured a dearth of RPG support products to compliment the rollout.
Even treating RRT as a RPG product shows up deficiencies in their understanding of the RPG miniature users, which I think it's safe to say is a complementary part of their core customers. They couldn't even get the product right for at least a segment of their core customers. I'm not even sure I can say PB understands their own core customers, or is a relevant force in their core business any more.
oh they probably knew that, the problem is one piece minis is like 2-3 times more expensive on the molds then the gak they went with.
Asterios wrote: Like I said before a long time ago, PB came into this treating it like another RPG product not realizing RPG's and miniature games and gamers are two wholly different breeds, what may fly for RPG players will not fly with Miniature players and will quickly kill a game.
Most likely they figure one fan-boy is pretty much like any other.
To address difficulty on getting in games due to PB dropping the ball: I never really considered their future support in the mix.
I was expecting what was promised to get done but nothing beyond that.
Looking back now, it seems almost "unreasonable" those expectations as simple as they are.
I collect as many factions as I can in a game so that I am not dependent on another player to bring anything.
Most of my friends are gaming fiends and have no real strong allegiance to a given game.
As long as I am willing to record house rules to deal with any "broken" elements they are game for playing it more anytime.
I like building the models when I have no timeline to meet and look: no company supported tournaments or games so my schedule is WIDE open.
I am truly sorry Asterios that all that building you did was like ashes... I cannot help feeling it does not have to be that way.
Don't force me into finding out where you live to get a game in!
<edit> Heck going to Chili to harass Nesbit is looking good...
Asterios wrote: Like I said before a long time ago, PB came into this treating it like another RPG product not realizing RPG's and miniature games and gamers are two wholly different breeds, what may fly for RPG players will not fly with Miniature players and will quickly kill a game.
Most likely they figure one fan-boy is pretty much like any other.
To address difficulty on getting in games due to PB dropping the ball: I never really considered their future support in the mix.
I was expecting what was promised to get done but nothing beyond that.
Looking back now, it seems almost "unreasonable" those expectations as simple as they are.
I collect as many factions as I can in a game so that I am not dependent on another player to bring anything.
Most of my friends are gaming fiends and have no real strong allegiance to a given game.
As long as I am willing to record house rules to deal with any "broken" elements they are game for playing it more anytime.
I like building the models when I have no timeline to meet and look: no company supported tournaments or games so my schedule is WIDE open.
I am truly sorry Asterios that all that building you did was like ashes... I cannot help feeling it does not have to be that way.
Don't force me into finding out where you live to get a game in!
<edit> Heck going to Chili to harass Nesbit is looking good...
thing of it is i'm in Central California where there is a decent size miniatures gaming crowd that is usually up for trying any miniature games, but the way this game was designed scared away all of them it seems.
Talizvar wrote:To address difficulty on getting in games due to PB dropping the ball: I never really considered their future support in the mix.
I was expecting what was promised to get done but nothing beyond that.
Looking back now, it seems almost "unreasonable" those expectations as simple as they are.
Similar here. I got into this mainly to get Battletech minis to game with and I got mostly what I wanted. What with the Reseen coming back in, it actually made that less important nowadays, but with most of the Destroids out in Wave 1, I got most of what I need.
But a promise is a promise, and I expect PB to make an effort to deliver the remaining. They have not demonstrated sufficient effort to date, IMO.
Asterios wrote:thing of it is i'm in Central California where there is a decent size miniatures gaming crowd that is usually up for trying any miniature games, but the way this game was designed scared away all of them it seems.
It's not surprising. Game rules come and go, the real thing about miniature gaming longevity is manufacturer support. As long as there are products released to support a line, there is hope that newcomers can continue to make a game playable in the long run. Non-support from a manufacturer means nothing new to entice players to continue to support, and is a death spiral. PB's approach is the worst of both worlds: a zombie spiral that doesn't quite dies, but never quite get alive either.
Lynx7725 wrote: It's not surprising. Game rules come and go, the real thing about miniature gaming longevity is manufacturer support. As long as there are products released to support a line, there is hope that newcomers can continue to make a game playable in the long run. Non-support from a manufacturer means nothing new to entice players to continue to support, and is a death spiral. PB's approach is the worst of both worlds: a zombie spiral that doesn't quite dies, but never quite get alive either.
And that's the reason for GW's longevity. The pricing, and the rules set, aren't great. But the consistent promotion and a reasonable release schedule, have allowed the gaming community to reach a self-perpetuating critical mass. You can go into any gamestore on the planet, and there's a better than even chance you'll be able to find an opponent, either ready at that moment, or to schedule with.
Wyrd and Privateer aren't at that level yet, but they support those gaming communities actively, and are rewarded accordingly.
And PB bleats once a week about "Soon, maybe", and how people need to have faith. No, faith needs to be backed up by good works. I find it funny about all the plans, for the next two generations, plus potentially more going forward. And while I doubt Wave 2 will ever be finished (but leave some room to be mistaken), I would be heavily that'd be the end of the project. Palladium haven't just hit a stumbling block out of the gate, they're going "hell with it" and repeatedly backing up over the stumbling block. The game could have survived Spartangate. The game could have survived the Core being 9 months late. But their handling of Wave 2? That's what has killed any chance the game had of a future.
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Merijeek wrote: I know the deal on "Unseen" but is there some explanation of what the "Reseen" bit is?
Reseen means that most of the models (I think several are still offlimits) have been returned to the Battletech Universe. Rifleman, Marauder, Warhammer especially.
I think the Dougram stuff (Locust, S-Hawk, Scorpion and Goliath?) are still Unseen. Could be wrong about any and all of that sentence.
Merijeek wrote: I know the deal on "Unseen" but is there some explanation of what the "Reseen" bit is?
Reseen means that most of the models (I think several are still offlimits) have been returned to the Battletech Universe. Rifleman, Marauder, Warhammer especially.
I think the Dougram stuff (Locust, S-Hawk, Scorpion and Goliath?) are still Unseen. Could be wrong about any and all of that sentence.
I assume the Griffon would also go on that second list.
So, are the Valkyrie-based things now Reseen, or are they Unseen?
Coined after the term Unseen, the term Reseen is used to describe artwork that is legal to use though it does depict what would normally be an Unseen design. Like with the Unseen, there are several distinct types of Reseen art:
In 2003, Technical Readout: Project Phoenix was published with upgrades and newer versions for most of the Unseen 'Mechs, as of the in-game year 3067. Dubbed "Reseen", these evolutions were sufficiently visually different from their parent designs that they could be depicted. Technical Readout: 3055 Upgrade continued with Phoenix upgrades for the remaining "Unseen" 'Mechs, and the "Reseen" Samurai aerospace fighter first appeared in AeroTech 2 Revised Edition and then in Technical Readout: 3039.
To wit, the Reseen did not replace the Unseen variants or retcon them out. They are new, additional designs with new art that appeared later on in the in-universe timeline, meant to gradually replace the Unseen as the timeline progresses.
The term "Reseen" is also applied to designs that were considered Unseen at one point, but were taken off the list again for one reason or another.
Finally, the new designs that retroactively replaced the old Unseen from 2015 onwards have also been referred to as Reseen.
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Merijeek wrote: So, are the Valkyrie-based things now Reseen, or are they Unseen?
IIRC, everything is reseen nowadays, as Catalyst have released new versions of all the old models, and is also doing a redesign of the originals, supposedly for the upcoming Alpha Strike starter set.
Stormonu wrote: Reseen, I believe. In Battletech, they are known as LAMs (Land-Air Mechs).
Well, for the transforming variants anyways (Wasp, Stinger and P-Hawk LAMs). Fasa used the Valks for the regular Wasp, Stinger and Phoenix Hawk, of course, but also for the Valkyrie and the Crusader.
jaymz wrote: Mwo also redid a number of the "unseen" and at least to me they look REALLY good.
In general they look fantastic, and have reached an agreement with Harebrained Schemes to let them use the models for their new Battletech tactical computer game.
Morgan Vening wrote: And PB bleats once a week about "Soon, maybe", and how people need to have faith. No, faith needs to be backed up by good works.
Not at all. Religion requires faith that cannot be backed up, and that is what we are looking at. Anyone who still believes PB will deliver wave 2, or any solid information on it, "Soon"(tm)(c)(r) has become an acolyte of theirs.
Personally, I don't believe anything further will come out of them in regards to this [possibly with the exception of using other sources of funding to pay for what is missing.] and it deserves to serve as a warning to any future 'investors' or customers of theirs. If it's not already available, don't believe that it will be.
Personally, I have reached the point that if PB were to receive additional funds to produce Wave 2, they'd spend it on something else instead.
In other words, I've pretty much consigned myself we'll never see Wave 2, and I feel helpless that we'd ever be able to get PB to admit that as KS seems willing to accept their once-every-three-months-we're-doing-something lies.
Morgan Vening wrote: And PB bleats once a week about "Soon, maybe", and how people need to have faith. No, faith needs to be backed up by good works.
Not at all. Religion requires faith that cannot be backed up, and that is what we are looking at. Anyone who still believes PB will deliver wave 2, or any solid information on it, "Soon"(tm)(c)(r) has become an acolyte of theirs.
Personally, I don't believe anything further will come out of them in regards to this [possibly with the exception of using other sources of funding to pay for what is missing.] and it deserves to serve as a warning to any future 'investors' or customers of theirs. If it's not already available, don't believe that it will be.
I'd say Faith is the belief in the unseen. Farmers grow crops having faith that they will grow. Do they always? Storms and droughts happen. We go to bed having faith that we will wake up the next day. We might not. As far as PB, that faith has long gone and worn away since they have not shown any results. Faith is simply the backing of knowledge with experience. If you do something once and get a positive result you will do it again. Like sports players and their lucky socks or shirts. To others that is just stupid superstition. If that guys wins 1000 games without a loss, I'd say their might be something special to those socks. Do I think that is ever going to happen? No.
People like to discount religion the same way because it does not fit what they think people should believe so they belittle them and discount them as just superstitious.
The Shamans of PB have long failed to yield anything but empty promises but the seers and soothsayers hang on since they still desire crumbs from the Pharaoh's (PB's) table.
Something I keep in mind when dealing with liars and cheaters.
I think this is why Ninja Division is not completely off the hook with me: I am sure they could have done more to have made this situation better PB or not.
I think this is why Ninja Division is not completely off the hook with me: I am sure they could have done more to have made this situation better PB or not.
ND may have some blame for the gak we got, but wave 2 is all on PB and no one else.
Morgan Vening wrote: And that's the reason for GW's longevity. The pricing, and the rules set, aren't great. But the consistent promotion and a reasonable release schedule, have allowed the gaming community to reach a self-perpetuating critical mass. You can go into any gamestore on the planet, and there's a better than even chance you'll be able to find an opponent, either ready at that moment, or to schedule with.
Wyrd and Privateer aren't at that level yet, but they support those gaming communities actively, and are rewarded accordingly.
The wargaming products are not known locally as plastic crack for no good reason; any line need to keep rolling out new stuff to keep the addicts happy. This continual churn is important, and as a general look at wargaming KS, many end up being a one-hit wonder which doesn't pan out in the long run. However, several companies are starting to get it "right", as it might be; Dwarven Forge has ran multiple KS that help them get product into production runs, Zombicide I believe is similar. DP9 has indicated it intends to go that route with a second KS planned. In a sense, the industry is getting to grips with how to integrate KS into the traditional distribution channels, which had been a sore point.
In hindsight, RRT could have -- and I believe was intended to -- ran similarly, with SC and TNG running separate KS to reach production. However, the bungling of the Macross portion basically made it very difficult. It's not impossible to relaunch RRT as a tabletop game with a veneer of RPG expansion in order to get by the licensing, but picking up such a solid bad rep for company support means it's an uphill battle that PB has sort of already proven they don't quite know how to fight.
Morgan Vening wrote: And PB bleats once a week about "Soon, maybe", and how people need to have faith. No, faith needs to be backed up by good works. I find it funny about all the plans, for the next two generations, plus potentially more going forward. And while I doubt Wave 2 will ever be finished (but leave some room to be mistaken), I would be heavily that'd be the end of the project. Palladium haven't just hit a stumbling block out of the gate, they're going "hell with it" and repeatedly backing up over the stumbling block. The game could have survived Spartangate. The game could have survived the Core being 9 months late. But their handling of Wave 2? That's what has killed any chance the game had of a future.
People don't talk much about it, but part of GW's success is also because it has a huge logistical tail to help push that much crack out the door -- ironic since we are talking about wargaming, and one lesson of modern war is the importance of logistics, but I disgress...
If we look at any of the really successful wargaming companies, we'd inevitably find a big logistical team behind them helping to push the products out on a global level. The complexity of rolling out multiple SKU on a global scale is way, way different from the traditional book channels that PB are familiar with -- and the bungling of the Core is a big sign.
There are signs that PB is learning, since they are actually talking to UPS about doing logistics... but the problem I see is that PB had and failed to deal with the logistics problems of Wave 1, failed to take advantage of Wave 1 to generate enough interest and hence volume, and now they are trying to sign a contract to deliver a volume that might entirely be imaginary. Logistics need to deal with realistic estimates of volume but my confidence in PB's ability to predict demand is not the greatest.
And Core delays, SpartanGate... yes, the line could have easily survived such gaffes. Products are delayed all the time in this industry, I share an inside joke with my LGS about FFG being on FFG time with regards to their international orders, and similarly, Catty labs releasing Btech products when they damn well feel like it. These things do happen and a good PR team is essential to managing things... something PB obviously lacks as I look forward to yet another meaningless Friday update.
And bad products, heck every company has them. GW had them, PP had them.. Spartan's problem isn't even particularly catastrophic, it was the ineptness of the entire situation that broke the camel and made it worse than it actually is.
Issue is, PB knew about a lot of this stuff and how to make it work, problem is PB neither had the money nor the inclination to do what was needed to make the game go, now they are just dragging it on so backers will lose interest and PB can party with all the free money they got, face it backers just made a donation to PB filled with empty promises from PB.
Well, I am pretty much at the stage now that PB is dead to me.
I want / need nothing else from them and they can happily coast along until they run out of fumes. I wish I can say "not a penny more" but I may have to drop a dollar each time they try a kickstarter.
They still require a bag of burning goose-poop on their doorstep but that can wait for another time.
Talizvar wrote: Something I keep in mind when dealing with liars and cheaters.
I think this is why Ninja Division is not completely off the hook with me: I am sure they could have done more to have made this situation better PB or not.
I think of it in terms of lost revenue.
I spent around a thousand dollars on this.
A thousand dollars is a lot of money, for sure.
It's a fraction of what I would have spent if they had treated this right.
So if they think that they got some big score with taking 1.5 million dollars, then they are fools for not seeing they could have made many times more.
What is 1.5 million to PB's budget? Perhaps two years of costs, probably less? Not much of a big take, is it?
PB probably did want to make more beyond the kickstarter off this, I just don't think they know how. It is blatantly obvious they are not people actually interested in making this type of game, and quite probably not actually capable of doing it without outside help.
Kevin is attracted to attention more than the money I hate to say.
Problem is he never wants to operate outside of his knowledge-base.
So unless there is a clear "leader" to keep it going, Kevin will not touch it with a ten foot pole.
So here we are.
I'd say he views himself more in the line of the Kim dynasty in North Korea, giving field guidance followed upon the pain of professional death on topics that Kev In Siem has little to no actual skill in. If they fail, it must be because they had ulterior selfish motives and sabotaged the plan or didn't follow it closely enough. Either way, in the cult of personality, it is never actually Kevin's fault and there are always more of those indoctrinated to take their place once the perpetrator suffers death under bus.
warboss wrote: it is never actually Kevin's fault and there are always more of those indoctrinated to take their place once the perpetrator suffers death under bus.
This meme had to presented first to give proper perspective of the extent of Kevin and blame being thrown about:
jaymz wrote: Mwo also redid a number of the "unseen" and at least to me they look REALLY good.
In general they look fantastic, and have reached an agreement with Harebrained Schemes to let them use the models for their new Battletech tactical computer game.
Whelp, today's 'newsletter landed', let's see where RRT stands!
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™
The PDFs of Wave 2 cards are being posted on DriveThruRPG.com at a rate of 2 every day until they are ALL posted and available to you over the next several weeks. Otherwise, still waiting for that price quote and working on plans for releases.
So, SNAFU, good good, consistency is key here, gents.
Forar wrote: So, SNAFU, good good, consistency is key here, gents.
Yup. Because there's only two options available, exacting specificity, and complete vagueness. Do they have a timeline for the pricing that they've been skirting around for months? Doesn't have to be exacting. But if a company is doing a quote for you, and can't give you a ballpark on when it'll be ready, at least in terms of months, if not weeks, then either you're not serious about it, or they aren't.
As to other details they could have some level of specificity on, without going over the top? How about talking in broad terms about release. Is the release just going to be a push to get out the existing material first? Is the release going to be a few, most, or all of Wave 2? Is there a broad timeline you're working towards? EDIT- Because I mean, if they're expecting any backlash, getting it out now, is better than having it drown it out when the news does break. Kicking the can down the road does noone any good.
I know the last one invariably gets them into strife, but that's just because they've proven incompetent at following through. Instead of complaining about being held to account for it, set a reasonable timeline, tack on another 50%, and FOLLOW THROUGH. Or, explain why you're running late, rather than just waiting for the deadline to pass, and just going "Ooops, my bad.".
Then, maybe, people will stop thinking you're incompetent jackholes.
I mean seriously, if their message had been "Nothing new to really report", would it (besides being more honest) have had less information?
Also, the 5th day cards are Lancer and Ghost stat cards. So, more stuff already found entirely in the book. Yay.
warboss wrote: it is never actually Kevin's fault and there are always more of those indoctrinated to take their place once the perpetrator suffers death under bus.
This meme had to presented first to give proper perspective of the extent of Kevin and blame being thrown about:
It is no accident that PB is near a scrapyard.
Ha! Thank you, that last image made me laugh really hard.
I once had a boss like that. He came up with a sales idea which was incredibly stupid but we werent allowed to say anything. Needless to say his idea failed spectacularly but he blamed all of us for not trying hard enough. Because there couldnt possibly have been anything wrong with his idea.
The sooner you come to grips with the fact that they don't know that, or anything else about anything miniature wargaming the better of you will be man. They are totally clueless.
This whole thing is reminding me of the master blaster fight in mad max beyond thunderdome, where we all have this righteous angst against this beast, only to find out at the end that they are really just totally pathetic.
I'll cut someone some slack if they're playing different games every time, make an occasional mistake (not consistently for their own benefit), and generally known as a nice guy (even if sarcastic). I reserve my ridicule for known consistent douchebags who only have to learn one game every decade or two yet screw up seemingly every step of the way.
Na... Just your stereotypical manufacturing company that quality control department knows the product is bad and hides it..
The upper management is aware of quality wants the machines ran two times faster than recommended speed with less people that
are untrained temporary workers.
Then when something goes wrong and the customer complains... Here comes the bus.... Glad I no longer work there...
Na... Just your stereotypical manufacturing company that quality control department knows the product is bad and hides it..
The upper management is aware of quality wants the machines ran two times faster than recommended speed with less people that
are untrained temporary workers.
Then when something goes wrong and the customer complains... Here comes the bus.... Glad I no longer work there...
warboss wrote: I'll cut someone some slack if they're playing different games every time, make an occasional mistake (not consistently for their own benefit), and generally known as a nice guy (even if sarcastic). I reserve my ridicule for known consistent douchebags who only have to learn one game every decade or two yet screw up seemingly every step of the way.
It isn't that they made mistakes on the show, it is that they made mistakes and he blames it all one one guy.
This thread ability to go completely off topic on a moments notice is to be described as Palladiumesque. Perhaps you could post some pics of Wil feeding geese.
Joyboozer wrote: This thread ability to go completely off topic on a moments notice is to be described as Palladiumesque. Perhaps you could post some pics of Wil feeding geese.
And the funny thing is often those most opposed to going off topic are the primary offenders.......I've taken more note lately than previously.
True but there are few that even post on this thread consistently. Either way......now that we are done with the Labor Day weekend.....any bets on when the next update will come? Should we have Forar check his clock and take bets?
As an aside, as I've mentioned numerous times. I doubt PB will ever come out with something even close to what we want for wave 2. I think they want to and wish to but just like the list of 30 new books PB comes out with and says they will finish each year.....RRT won't happen. They can't piecemeal it like the RPG. It's all wave 2 or nothing. I bet more on the latter.
Any work on any model is progress. PB could indeed piecemeal the rest of it. I bet they are. They just won't show any progress on individual pieces because even they have worked out that it would mean instant death for them.
Anyone with that model in their pledge will be screaming " Want it NOW!" which they can't do as it will eat up extra money in postage costs.
Anyone that doesn't have it in their pledge will be screaming "Why THAT model? The one I want is more logical/useful/popular and should have been out before that!".
At this point, anything PB proves they have been working on that is anything less than the whole of wave 2, they could be wiped out. They could have half the remaining stuff ready, but be too scared to do anything about it with the MAC II, or Gnerls, or any of the rest still to be completed. Show it and be damned by faint praise and hatred that it wasn't the model other people would have done next, or suffer in silence unitl the whole lot is complete so they can blow a huge raspberry in our faces for ever doubting they would come through this century.
Doesn't matter since they can only afford to ship wave 2 as a single wave. The only exception is the smaller pledges that were only for the unique Rick or Roy figures and nothing else. Those could be fulfilled and considered closed.
The problem is the definition of "working on wave 2" that PB uses and what you and I would use are very different.
Here are some WIP shots of my Regults. They are currently being painted by a hired brush from Santiago (yup. I recognized Real Life has been such a bitch last months, that I would not be able to paint all these 64 miniatures)
Bases. No highlights yet:
First test. blacklinning with brush. I said her that I could delineate better than her with brush (LOL) so I bought here some gundam markers...
Rough blacklinning without corections:
Lines corrected, still missing highlights:
Well, that's mostly "my" progress so far. I sent her 36 Regults, 8 of each artillery pods, 4 scouts and 3 Glaugs.
At first I thought this paint scheme will be just for the Regults, and for the arillery I thought about changing the main colour of the scheme (red) for something else, like dark grey or something.
Now, seeing those 12 red Regults, so sexy, Im thinking about a tidal wave of red mechas xD
Don't know what to do. Use this scheme with slight variations from unit to unit or just use same scheme for all the 64 miniatures?
Any work on any model is progress. PB could indeed piecemeal the rest of it. I bet they are. They just won't show any progress on individual pieces because even they have worked out that it would mean instant death for them.
Anyone with that model in their pledge will be screaming " Want it NOW!" which they can't do as it will eat up extra money in postage costs.
Anyone that doesn't have it in their pledge will be screaming "Why THAT model? The one I want is more logical/useful/popular and should have been out before that!".
At this point, anything PB proves they have been working on that is anything less than the whole of wave 2, they could be wiped out. They could have half the remaining stuff ready, but be too scared to do anything about it with the MAC II, or Gnerls, or any of the rest still to be completed. Show it and be damned by faint praise and hatred that it wasn't the model other people would have done next, or suffer in silence unitl the whole lot is complete so they can blow a huge raspberry in our faces for ever doubting they would come through this century.
I don't know which is correct, do you?
It's possible, but I don't think the logistics would bear out. A smaller runtime would be comparatively more expensive by piecemealing, shipping would definitely be if they shipped each SKU separately, and then there's the time and space needed to unpack store it, as they awaited others.
Then there's also the ego involved. Sorry, but I don't think for one second, that Kevin wouldn't be crowing from the rooftops, if an item was complete. The man has shown no sense of shame or restraint in that regard, going back to at least the start of the Kickstarter (December, hoping November, maybe October!). He wouldn't keep it a secret, even if as above, it would be excessively expensive to do it that way. He'd also probably find some excuse to get it to retail, because this is Kevin, king of the broken promise. Personally, it'd be a good short term business decision, assuming he was able to move product (and I do note Miniature Market restocked after their last sale, but in very small numbers). But yes, he'd get screamed at, because it'd be another failure to do what was not only specified during the campaign, but has since been doubled, tripled, quadrupled down on, since then. So doing this would be a PR disaster. But Kevin has shown in that regard, he doesn't give a feth. He thinks his fanfriends will back him (and they will), that his haters will hate him (and they will), and that the vast majority will forgive him (I doubt very very much).
That's different from showing progress leading up to the actual production though. They could show the digital 3D component breakdowns, though given the now years of "reducing parts count", it'd have to be a VAST improvement, or they'll rightly get slammed. They could show the 3D printed prototypes that would be the next step. They could show the milled molds. Or the test sprues. But for the last two, they'd need a manufacturer, and they've stated they're looking for one.
And yes, unless they're the absolute pinnacle of plastic perfection, there will be a lot of screaming regardless. Because they've bungled not only the project, but the management of expectations for so long, and so consistently, that even if they announced courier express delivery to everyone, simultaneously, tomorrow, with a huge feeling of smugness, a good portion of backers, way more than the "handful" who have been vocal in opposition, just won't give a feth.
And even if Wave 2 completes, PB have shown no capacity for, and no interest in, handling any kind of structured environment that would help foster and develop the game. If it wasn't for Talizvar, Nesbet, Mike and a few others, doing things on their own dime, there would be no online presence for the project at all.
Hell, I'd settle for them showing small scale progress on the Earth Defense Conventional Vehicles, that were supposed to be completed 15 months ago, and require next to no work from Palladium. It's simple stuff like that, and the Wave 2 cards (which they're finally doing), that they've bungled so consistently, but would have given people a little faith, that's the reason I have none. When even the simplest things, that take a day or two of investment into, take a year plus? Yeah, appearing to be a smug jackass when it's complete, isn't appropriate. But humility has never been Palladium's strong suit.
Crap. I don't know how I manage to post my thing just in the last post avaliable for one page, so it goes unnoticed... and my efforts to go back on topic are taken down with more blah blah about how gakky PB is (and it is, but alas).
Here are some WIP shots of my Regults. They are currently being painted by a hired brush from Santiago (yup. I recognized Real Life has been such a bitch last months, that I would not be able to paint all these 64 miniatures)
Bases. No highlights yet:
First test. blacklinning with brush. I said her that I could delineate better than her with brush (LOL) so I bought here some gundam markers...
Rough blacklinning without corections:
Lines corrected, still missing highlights:
Well, that's mostly "my" progress so far. I sent her 36 Regults, 8 of each artillery pods, 4 scouts and 3 Glaugs.
At first I thought this paint scheme will be just for the Regults, and for the arillery I thought about changing the main colour of the scheme (red) for something else, like dark grey or something.
Now, seeing those 12 red Regults, so sexy, Im thinking about a tidal wave of red mechas xD
Don't know what to do. Use this scheme with slight variations from unit to unit or just use same scheme for all the 64 miniatures?
Mike1975 wrote: Doesn't matter since they can only afford to ship wave 2 as a single wave. The only exception is the smaller pledges that were only for the unique Rick or Roy figures and nothing else. Those could be fulfilled and considered closed.
The "smart" thing to do is target the models that would close the books on the most people.
Then quietly mail them all out.
People happy and confused with little information would not be able to stir-up much controversy.
Plus, people would not know if it is all done or partially, at least for a few months.
Then repeat as funds or capability permit.
Unfortunately with this method, they could possibly then get those owed down to a "vocal few" and let it end there.
Note: this is the more unethical means of doing things which is what I am assuming would be their choice.
I think it really depends on how serious they are of continuing with RRT or just want it to end.
@Nesbet: Yeah, the good old "Gundam pen" funny how many people call them a "cheat" but the results are hard to argue.
I have a few other methods I show in my gallery:
I really like the eye on the pods, very striking.
For missile pod colour... many "elite" models for the Zent are green, I think that would be good.
Plus, red and green are contrasting colours so it should look bright enough.
It is difficult however to not look like a Christmas theme.
hahahahaha I dismissed green for that very own reason.
After this batch of Regults, she said to me "hey, the regults could have been with yellow, scouts orange/red and artillery red, to have a fire-themed scheme" And I replied "crap, I should have thought that earlier"
Orange is also dismissed, because another player and friend is painting his malcontents in a white/oraange scheme
Any work on any model is progress. PB could indeed piecemeal the rest of it. I bet they are. They just won't show any progress on individual pieces because even they have worked out that it would mean instant death for them.
Anyone with that model in their pledge will be screaming " Want it NOW!" which they can't do as it will eat up extra money in postage costs.
Anyone that doesn't have it in their pledge will be screaming "Why THAT model? The one I want is more logical/useful/popular and should have been out before that!".
At this point, anything PB proves they have been working on that is anything less than the whole of wave 2, they could be wiped out. They could have half the remaining stuff ready, but be too scared to do anything about it with the MAC II, or Gnerls, or any of the rest still to be completed. Show it and be damned by faint praise and hatred that it wasn't the model other people would have done next, or suffer in silence unitl the whole lot is complete so they can blow a huge raspberry in our faces for ever doubting they would come through this century.
I don't know which is correct, do you?
Given PB's penchant for proudly announcing they have decided on the shape of a 6 sided die, and their lack of anything in regards to RRT tells me they have done nothing and just paying lip service to us.
Here are some WIP shots of my Regults. They are currently being painted by a hired brush from Santiago (yup. I recognized Real Life has been such a bitch last months, that I would not be able to paint all these 64 miniatures)
Well, that's mostly "my" progress so far. I sent her 36 Regults, 8 of each artillery pods, 4 scouts and 3 Glaugs.
At first I thought this paint scheme will be just for the Regults, and for the arillery I thought about changing the main colour of the scheme (red) for something else, like dark grey or something.
Now, seeing those 12 red Regults, so sexy, Im thinking about a tidal wave of red mechas xD
Don't know what to do. Use this scheme with slight variations from unit to unit or just use same scheme for all the 64 miniatures?
Let me hear your opinions! Or read. Whatever!
I didn't use gundam pens on mine since thought it made them look cheesy. but too each his own. also who will be applying the decals? they about to have fun.
Nesbet wrote: hahahahaha
I dismissed green for that very own reason.
Orange is also dismissed, because another player and friend is painting his malcontents in a white/oraange scheme
Looking at the colour wheel there are a few options:
It looks like the pods have a rust-red look which is Red-Orange.
"Split Complimentary": Red-Orange, Green, Blue (So yeah, missile pods in blue would look right).
"Analogous": Red-Orange, Red, Red-Violet.
I am tempted with this since all your elites will be green which will make them stand out more... unless you choose otherwise.
It also puts it a step back from the "fire" theme as well as Zents do have some purple to their uniforms so that might work.
Plus when your friend's pods are on the board with yours it would "look right" somehow.
I painted some Regults and made the pannel lines with brush. It's slow, but I can make that right (heck, I'm a dentist, this miniatures are big compared with thooth) but i don't have time to do all those lines x 64 and moar models ^_^U EDIT:
I'll apply the decals. I think that too. Pretty fun. And will love to give them the finishing touches and decals to call the project ready
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thanks Talizvar! I forgot to look at the damned wheel. Blue/purplish would look cool IMHO...
Looking at these pictures, I wonder if I should stick to "normal" colours and not metallics.
I also like using metallics sparingly because it is so hard to safeguard against metallic contamination (Nesbet is doing it well but the panel lines were giving some trouble on the metal).
How many want a more "realistic" look to the models or more like the cartoon? I had done a bunch of "block painting" so had not committed to this yet.
Perhaps they could get their trusted official Palladium fanfriend volunteer plumber to do it since they exclusively promote from within their existing ranks. He'd likely already be used to being elbow deep in Kevin's crap so naturally would be a good fit/expert.
@jaymz: Are we sure with all the "editing" that went on, it would appear like a new idea?
The poor guy is so idealistic!
I swear elbow grease and initiative are a punishable offence at Palladium.
Nevermind delivering what you promised or it would be like stealing from the company.
Actually, that is my post Jaymz, and to be quite frank we have always needed an official Palladium voice, not volunteers calling the shots on rules.
I have consistently taken issue with the assertions that certain people have made about the rules throughout this campaign. Fan made rulings are just that, and only that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And just to be clear, I do not believe they will do it, but it is something they need to do if they are going to ever commit to supporting the game earnestly.
Swabby wrote: Yeah I have zero expectation that they will, but in the spirit of the thread I added my two cents.
Agreed, I have posted things so the words were at least said, which got me a few PM's wondering if I lost my mind.
I do think they "designated" a couple people and they become a victim of TUTB (thrown under the bus) or they suddenly have better things to do like Wayne.
As far as I can tell, not one of the staff have learned how to play the game. They can't answer questions, because that would mean they had knowledge of the system and experience in playing to draw from.
They don't even play with their RPG system, any longer.
Talizvar, to the best of my knowledge Wayne is the only employee to post a rules clarification, and just once. Phaze posted the official FAQ but even he is just an MA to my knowledge.
Swabby wrote: Actually, that is my post Jaymz, and to be quite frank we have always needed an official Palladium voice, not volunteers calling the shots on rules.
I have consistently taken issue with the assertions that certain people have made about the rules throughout this campaign. Fan made rulings are just that, and only that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And just to be clear, I do not believe they will do it, but it is something they need to do if they are going to ever commit to supporting the game earnestly.
This is true, but it is also why Jaymz and I pushed so hard, for you guys, since we don't stress on "Official" rules, to have PB update something "Officially". Notice that we did try so many times with little response or care from PB that we gave up. A group of 8-10 people worked and discussed the Blast rules change in details and then PB just changed it to whatever they wanted without coming back and asking why we changed things the way we did. That was the last straw for me and why I moved to Nodal Wars.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
n815e wrote: As far as I can tell, not one of the staff have learned how to play the game. They can't answer questions, because that would mean they had knowledge of the system and experience in playing to draw from.
They don't even play with their RPG system, any longer.
I'm pretty sure you are right. A few do play the RPG though. They have little clue or interest with the RRT rules though. Shoot, I'm starting to forget the rules some myself since I use my own rules set the few times I can get to play.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Swabby wrote: Talizvar, to the best of my knowledge Wayne is the only employee to post a rules clarification, and just once. Phaze posted the official FAQ but even he is just an MA to my knowledge.
I'm pretty sure this was after it was spoon fed to him and then he had to be cajoled and pushed into that much.
Swabby wrote: Talizvar, to the best of my knowledge Wayne is the only employee to post a rules clarification, and just once. Phaze posted the official FAQ but even he is just an MA to my knowledge.
Actually the faq, though posted by phaze, was vetted by carmen etc at pb. A perfect example of them dragging their feet considering how long even THAT took.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And dont get me or mike started on the conventional forces rules....
This is true, but it is also why Jaymz and I pushed so hard, for you guys, since we don't stress on "Official" rules, to have PB update something "Officially". Notice that we did try so many times with little response or care from PB that we gave up. A group of 8-10 people worked and discussed the Blast rules change in details and then PB just changed it to whatever they wanted without coming back and asking why we changed things the way we did. That was the last straw for me and why I moved to Nodal Wars.
I'm sure they didn't play test their changes, either.
Yeah I know you guys were pushing hard to get them to acknowledge and correct a whole slew of issues. That you even felt like you had to do it should have been a huge red flag to all involved. You were both (Jaymz and Mike) so full of hope and gusto back then!
That they were leaning so heavily on you guys for so much while staying silent officially certainly was a red flag for me back then.
Now I am determined to just enjoy what we do have and not let PB ruin my memories of the franchise and have fun playing.
Swabby wrote: Yeah I know you guys were pushing hard to get them to acknowledge and correct a whole slew of issues. That you even felt like you had to do it should have been a huge red flag to all involved. You were both (Jaymz and Mike) so full of hope and gusto back then!
That they were leaning so heavily on you guys for so much while staying silent officially certainly was a red flag for me back then.
Now I am determined to just enjoy what we do have and not let PB ruin my memories of the franchise and have fun playing.
Well I've got all the First War units done for Nodal Wars. I even improved on the RRT stats some by adding alternate munitions for the Monster and some alternate units that people could use if they wanted too. There is enough changes in the rules to allow you to use a smaller force and play and enjoy a game (No more fixed squadrons). Now I'm kinda sad that I have so many RRT minis and that with NW I don't need to use the massive armies. I can't wait to finish out the Battletech Clans and 3039 stuff so I can do a Battletech Clan vs Robotech Master's game.
I've also had people want me to convert over some Heavy Gear stuff now that the Kickstarter is delivering. I can't wait to roll that out and get some additional playtesting done using HG.
In the end, since Robotech will not be strongly supported by PB, we are left to out own devices and ingenuity to support the Robotech cause. The trick is to divorce PB and HG enough from RRT so that you can enjoy it. The only real way to do that is use the minis (what ones you can) and avoid the RRT game system.
A few have even made STAW conversions and an X-Wing conversion for RRT minis.
I have actually been kicking around the idea of making a fan based revision of RRT similar to what heralds of ruin has done for kill team, but specifically robotech focused. I know you have Nodal Wars but it is more broad spectrum and multiverse based. I just want RRT.
Swabby wrote: I have actually been kicking around the idea of making a fan based revision of RRT similar to what heralds of ruin has done for kill team, but specifically robotech focused. I know you have Nodal Wars but it is more broad spectrum and multiverse based. I just want RRT.
Actually I play mostly RRT with it. That is what I originally intended, to play RRT but without the Squadron limits and at a smaller "Skirmish" scale. Later, I just decided to add some more abilities to accommodate other minis that I have so that I could use my CAV KS minis and my old RRT stuff.
What is that clear koh-i-noor pen in the middle? Is it just a container for something, or is it an almost-empty mechanical eraser, or something else entirely?
Soul Samurai wrote: What is that clear koh-i-noor pen in the middle? Is it just a container for something, or is it an almost-empty mechanical eraser, or something else entirely?
It is a refillable technical pen.
I know, I think that is why they sell them opaque again: there really is not much to a pen of this nature BUT you need a long handle to use it.
Much like the "rapidliner" on the left but I was able to get an even thinner tip and use "white ink" which is handy for the BT.
I think they are an "old" model of the Koh-I-Noor, I liked it where I could see how much ink remained without taking it apart.
More info on the pens are here: http://www.kohinoorusa.com/products/pens/rapidograph/pens/index.php Plus better information (oddly) here: https://www.currys.com/catalogpc.htm?CATEGORY=KIN_RAPIDOGRAPH_PENS The cleaning equipment is a must: I had the "ink" dry in the tiny tube/tip a couple times.
They work awesome otherwise.
Interesting, I did not know about those. Have you ever tried them with thinned acrylic paint rather than ink? That's an idea that I've been curious about in the past.
Soul Samurai wrote: Interesting, I did not know about those. Have you ever tried them with thinned acrylic paint rather than ink? That's an idea that I've been curious about in the past.
That would be awesome. Never thought about that. Maybe using washes, miniature "inks" etc
Gonna look in town if I can find something alike
Soul Samurai wrote: Interesting, I did not know about those. Have you ever tried them with thinned acrylic paint rather than ink? That's an idea that I've been curious about in the past.
That would be awesome. Never thought about that. Maybe using washes, miniature "inks" etc
Gonna look in town if I can find something alike
I have been... hesitant to do that since I had a couple instances of the ink drying in the tube.
I think it would work, if not, just add some flow aid.
I could try it out.
It could be helpful for the outlining we showed with the pods but using a darker colour say a "blood red" in the case of Nesbet's pods.
I think much like an airbrush they would need to be cleaned promptly after use.
The thicker pens may work well I would caution though that any little slip is easily seen since it is such a "sharp" edge it leaves behind.
You darn people and your good ideas... I suddenly have an idea for some models I am working on.
I am just trying to think where I would use this as an outline method where a wash would not be good enough?
The tiny detail writing I agree is the hands-down method of choice.
I would be very interested to know the results if anyone does try it. At this point I'm tempted to pick up one of those pens and experiment; perhaps I'll add it to the list for next month's purchases (already spent my hobby budget for this month).
Can you guys help me out. I want to make a force with RRT units, both can be found on the link above vs some Battletech stuff. 150 Points per side. That will likely get you an full company vs a crapload of Zentraedi, 8-10 UEDF, or 9-12 Bioroids. I also have the 3050 clanners listed and have some of those in case you want to see a battle with them.
You mean about as legit as painting stuff being here? Yes, and more so.
Since Battletech is also 6mm scale and most people have minis from both and Nodal Wars allows them to play with all of their minis.
Also, Nodal Wars was originally written to allow RRT players to play RRT as a smaller skirmish type game without the hundreds of miniatures that the game's Squadrons force players to use.
Whereas painting can have a painting thread right?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Notice I'm asking to choose RRT stuff vs other stuff to help playtest rules and game balance of using other universes. I want to play RRT, but we all know it's not going anywhere. If you want to use your RRT stuff, you must have alternatives.
People talking about painting is not the equivalent of you gushing about your adapted rules set and you know it.
From Rick and Nesbet and Talizvar and others, there are indeed people painting minis in here, RRT, "Custom Wave 2" and otherwise.
The number of people on Dakka playing "Nodal Wars" appears to be... you. Last I checked the "Nodal Wars" thread has you posting when you jot down some new material and that's about it. People seem generally supportive of someone taking things into their own hands and going full Game Modifier/Designer to better accommodate their needs, let alone offering it up to the public, but the public's general reaction (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here) seems to be "... meh."
You have a Nodal Wars FB group, and a Nodal Wars Dakka thread, and comment on it occasionally elsewhere if I'm not mistaken. Edit: and I see that on August 31st you asked the same question, and got 1 response that didn't answer your question, and most of your work gets a handful of likes.
The fact that it uses RRT minis (and is based off the RRT rules set?) doesn't make it any less of a personal pet project. And my take on it is that you know this, hence posting it in places that are not, specifically, "Nodal Wars".
I mean, you got some flak/pushback when you used to drop all kinds of adaptations in this thread for various other properties, how are you at all surprised to get some for your homebrew wargame based on an all-but-dead niche wargame?
Note: I'm not telling you what you can and cannot post here, that's the mod's prerogative, not mine. But you cannot be oblivious to the minimal (if not negligible) interest in these flights of fancy over the years?
Quick, show of hands, how many people are actually playing Nodal Wars? How many people have even read all of the material Mike has been cranking out at a pace that puts Palladium to shame? Glanced at it?
Quick, show of hands, how many people are actually playing Nodal Wars? How many people have even read all of the material Mike has been cranking out at a pace that puts Palladium to shame? Glanced at it?
i'm not a skirmish player, its all out war or nothing, I play with hundreds of models on the board not a handful. with but a handful of models might as well play the Robotech RPG then.
Forar wrote: Quick, show of hands, how many people are actually playing Nodal Wars?
Not I - I'm busy enough trying to get KOG light (i.e. not Heavy Gear) squared away, and have other hobby / gaming stuff in the background. At some point, I might rework KOG light for my handfuls of RRT minis. If/when that happens, I'll be sure to post annoucements here, OK?
Also, if Nodal Wars is still under development / playtest, it might be more appropriate under Game Design?
Was there a PBWU last week? I unsubcribed myself from that piece of trash some time ago. Kickstarter's TOS requires the author to put updates on the KS, and that's where I expect to see them, not pleas for cash from other projects that will neither materialize nor have I any interest in.
Stormonu wrote: Was there a PBWU last week? I unsubcribed myself from that piece of trash some time ago. Kickstarter's TOS requires the author to put updates on the KS, and that's where I expect to see them, not pleas for cash from other projects that will neither materialize nor have I any interest in.
The condensed update from the 2nd:
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™
The PDFs of Wave 2 cards are being posted on DriveThruRPG.com at a rate of 2 every day until they are ALL posted and available to you over the next several weeks. Otherwise, still waiting for that price quote and working on plans for releases.
UPDATE: Available on DriveThruRPG.com – new Wave Two Robotech® RPG Tactics™ cards every day, plus The Rifter®, Rifts® and other titles added weekly to DriveThruRPG.com
Stormonu wrote: Was there a PBWU last week? I unsubcribed myself from that piece of trash some time ago. Kickstarter's TOS requires the author to put updates on the KS, and that's where I expect to see them, not pleas for cash from other projects that will neither materialize nor have I any interest in.
On the positive side (no, not really) Kickstarter themselves think that sufficient progress is being made. And by "sufficient progress" I mean quarterly updates insisting that work is being done. Because that's clearly "sufficient progress".
Did I mention I'm building a time machine? I totally am. And now, according to Kickstarter's perspective, I am now making "sufficient progress" toward a time machine. Forar and Morgan, I haven't forgotten you, buddies! http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-downsides-to-working-with-sponsors/.
Anyway, the OTHER thing I learned that was interesting, when talking to Chase is that outer limit to doing a charge back is 500 days. Which is obviously way outside the limits of Simbieda's fraud/incompetence, but is something to remember when dealing with future scams.
@Forar,,,,,like I said I'll take it elsewhere.....I'm not playing dumb, just FULLY aware of how much other BS we tend to deviate and talk about that never gets whined about.
Well, I can always be set on the straight an narrow by the MODs but I figure in this thread on-topic is:
- Talk about the various missives PB puts out that refers to RRT: that for quite some time can peter-out in 3 posts or less.
- Various ways we are trying to keep the "game alive" in our own courts and try to give some motivation to others.
- The painting of the figures should give some inspiration to dust the things off: you are more likely to play if they are painted.
- The pictures in general of the models are always a good thing.
- Any coverage of a game played is nice to see.
- Rules discussions of the game is always helpful to deal with elements that may be "not quite right" in the game.
- Rules re-writes are certainly interesting but seems more like hijacking the game rather moving it along.
- How to make/buy/cast our own version of the "unseen" wave2 is a genuine attempt to "fulfil" the game to it's full potential.
- The occasional discussion of comments at the KS site is always on topic.
- The pushing along the "official" cards is great, prior to that, the interim cards Mike provided were always appreciated.
- Sure, throwing some RRT models into Battletech is a good and viable thing to do, I am SO happy to have my Warhammer, Riflemen, Longbow and Archer now.
I will also give a show of hands and say I read most (sorry) of the rules for Nodal wars and kept wondering why Battletech: Alphastike from Catalyst did not meet the need.
But I think the real issue against talking about Nodal Wars is that it is a product being advertised: Mike has a vested interest, I do not have a painting product or business I am involved in so painting is just that: talking about an element of the hobby that includes RRT. Plus I feel some measure of guilt not supporting it as much as it probably deserves but life is short.
About the only successful "progress" we can gain inspiration from with RRT is how far we all have got with our models and getting games in.
<edit> I will now end my off-topic posts about off-topic...
I happened upon some Rotring Isograph pens today, and decided to buy a .5mm pen and give it a try with Acrylics.
The results are thusly:
This was heavily thinned red paint (Citadel Blood Red). I think it came out OK for a first test, though cleaning the pen afterwards is a bit of a pain. It's a bit too thick, I might have to buy a thinner tipped-pen.
So would you guys use something like this for filling in the detail on RRT mechs with solid black to get that bold cartoony look, or is it more for penning numbers and that sort of thing?
Soul Samurai wrote: I happened upon some Rotring Isograph pens today, and decided to buy a .5mm pen and give it a try with Acrylics.
The results are thusly:
Spoiler:
This was heavily thinned red paint (Citadel Blood Red). I think it came out OK for a first test, though cleaning the pen afterwards is a bit of a pain. It's a bit too thick, I might have to buy a thinner tipped-pen.
So would you guys use something like this for filling in the detail on RRT mechs with solid black to get that bold cartoony look, or is it more for penning numbers and that sort of thing?
Soul Samurai wrote: I happened upon some Rotring Isograph pens today, and decided to buy a .5mm pen and give it a try with Acrylics.
The results are thusly:
This was heavily thinned red paint (Citadel Blood Red). I think it came out OK for a first test, though cleaning the pen afterwards is a bit of a pain. It's a bit too thick, I might have to buy a thinner tipped-pen.
So would you guys use something like this for filling in the detail on RRT mechs with solid black to get that bold cartoony look, or is it more for penning numbers and that sort of thing?
For black lining you can get Micron brand pens at most art or craft supply stores. They go down to .05mm so they can do stuff super thin. However the formula in acrylic paint tends to dry them out very quickly so it's best to put down all the base colors then use a clear coat which really helps extend the pen's life. Once all the black lining is done you go back over the model with a layer of dull coat which gets rid of the shine from the gloss coat and also dulls the inked black lines while locking it in permanently. (while the ink looks matte on paper the ink is rather shiny when it's on top of paint)
You can also get a pretty good range of paint pens from Bandai which were designed for working on gundam models.
I use the "Micron pens" as is for black lining and at least for me they are excellent in value and results
I have also had great results with the "Gundam" panel liners but a word of warning, if you use these. Do not used lacquer based varnishes afterwards they simply wash all your hard work away. I only did this once. so from then on made sure I used water based varnishes, there are some really hard wearing matt finishes out there at a fraction you pay for "model making" tins/spray cans.
New Kickstarter Update. In the sense that it updates the days since the last meaningless drivel.
First, there's an apology for the long silence. Because that's an uncommon occurance they have no control over.
Then to the bullet points.
Number one. I'm glad they decided to inform backers of the Kickstarter two weeks after the fact, that they're putting up cards on DTRPG. So... umm yay?
Number two. Still with the "We're talking to manufacturers, and working on parts count". As I pointed out to Forar, the wording of "if at all possible" doesn't help their case. That there's not even a timeframe on the manufacturer's quote (days, weeks, months), isn't heartening for those wanting real news.
Number three. More "We're totally working on other stuff to make the game great" with zero details. The only thing they can point to, is a scenario book that has previously been reported as put together by a volunteer and given to PB.
Then the epilogue. If you want minor news, subscribe to the newsletter. But "real news" will be posted here on Kickstarter. Even though the first bullet point took 10 days to get posted, and nothing in the above seems like it needed to wait those 10 days.
Sep 9 2016
Wave Two Cards on DriveThruRPG
11 Comments
6 likes
Hey, guys. It’s Wayne. Sorry for the long silence. Here’s what’s been going on:
1. Wave Two cards on DriveThruRPG.com. For the last two weeks, and for the next several weeks, I’m posting all cards for Robotech® RPG Tactics™ as free PDFs on DriveThruRPG.com. They’re going up at a rate of two per day, starting with cards from Wave Two. Once those are done, I’ll put all the Wave One cards up there as well. This is to help you guys plan your armies and test changes you’re thinking about, as well as test strategies with game pieces you’re considering adding to your collection.
In the next month or so, I’ll also begin putting Print On Demand versions of the cards up there. I’ll start with the Stat and Character cards, because those are standard US Poker size, which is one of DriveThru’s POD card size options. As for the large (Core Force/Squadron) and small (Support/Special) cards, I’m going to have to redesign those to fit DriveThru’s available POD formats, so they’ll take longer.
2. Talking to manufacturers. We’re currently waiting on a quote from one manufacturer, and talking to another about the possibility of producing Wave Two. We’re determined to reduce the part count dramatically if at all possible, and that has been a focus of our search for the manufacturer who can create the highest quality product.
3. RRT scenario books. Some of you may have seen a mock-up of a Robotech® RPG Tactics™ scenario book at our booth at Gen Con. We have a few different supporting products like that in the works, in an effort to help round out and support the game before and after Wave Two finally comes out.
That’s all the news I have to share today. Remember, for more frequent, minor updates, watch our Weekly Update mailings, also posted on our website, www.palladiumbooks.com. Whenever there are major announcements or significant developments, I will of course post them here.
They HAVE to know that they HAVE to post DETAILS.
The fact that they don't - that they deliberately dance around them - doesn't bode well.
Alpharius wrote: They HAVE to know that they HAVE to post DETAILS.
The fact that they don't - that they deliberately dance around them - doesn't bode well.
But they do have details. They're just not willing to share those, because they know it'll make them look even more incompetent or unable to complete the project.
When did they put in their submission to the manufacturer? Is this the same manufacturer from umpteen months ago? How many manufacturers have they submitted quotes to? What was the point of failure on submitted quotes?
Obviously, the last one is iffy, as would be "Which manufacturers?".
But they've been spinning this line almost as long as "parts counts". It doesn't take THAT long to get a frikking quote. Sure, there might be some minor quibbling later, but you should be able to get a good "OK, let's procede for now" quote in a matter of days, a week at most. That this has been MONTHS, with no sign of completing (as they're now looking at yet another manufacturer), indicates that PB just aren't serious about it.
So I just read the Robotech RPG wiki article and found this:
"What has been delivered so far has been substandard in quality compared to even low end wargame miniatures manufacturers. This has been noted by multiple miniature wargaming sites and model builders, such as talkwargaming,[4] theminaturespage forums [5](where use of scale model rather than game miniature manufacturing processes was noted), and deltavector,[6] who perhaps says it best in summary:
"Basically, the miniatures are all like mini 1:300 versions of 1:48 Revell kits rather than wargaming pieces. It's like they have no idea who their target audience is"
Swabby, although I agree that these statements are essentially true, the "pedia entries are writtemn from a lopsided view.
Anyway back to the update, what is missing is the qualification from the PBWU were the same person tells everyone there that the "magic " quote may not arrive for another couple of weeks.
Why was this not in the backer update? Oh wait I already know that one, ala Kevin "they will get tetchy and annoyed with PB for no reason, we are working flat out to get these ungrateful wretches their toys and all we get is whining and no fawning admiration"
wilycoyote wrote: Swabby, although I agree that these statements are essentially true, the "pedia entries are writtemn from a lopsided view.
Anyway back to the update, what is missing is the qualification from the PBWU were the same person tells everyone there that the "magic " quote may not arrive for another couple of weeks.
Why was this not in the backer update? Oh wait I already know that one, ala Kevin "they will get tetchy and annoyed with PB for no reason, we are working flat out to get these ungrateful wretches their toys and all we get is whining and no fawning admiration"
Well, to be clear (unless I've missed it elsewhere), there isn't even a timeframe of a couple of weeks.
"Apparently that one quote for manufacturing is going to take awhile, so we are getting others from different companies as well as working on plans for upcoming releases like the Robotech® Ghost Fleet sourcebook and RRT scenario books."
"As I mentioned to some of you at AdeptiCon, we recently got some tooling quotes for Wave Two, and we’re discussing specifics with the manufacturer. I’ll keep you updated when we know more."
So, either this set of quotes has been going on for five months and counting, OR those negotiations fell through, and PB didn't update when they knew more (because "Nope, not going with them" IS more knowledge than they had).
Hell, the use of the word "awhile" instead of "soon" in the PBWU should send shivers down the spine of anyone who knows what Palladium's definition of "soon" is.
of course PB is having problems with finding quotes, since how many manufacturers will do it for free or for RRT stock? or drawings signed by Kevin ?
also at this point i'm trying to figure out how I will sell my stuff off since there is no point continuing with a dead game, and can only fly them around going pew pew pew so much.
such a pity watching an auction on eBay which has 3 starter sets that will end soon with only one bid of $69.99
Yeah it is a scavengers market now. I have picked up two wave one + bonus sets for less than I kickstarter one set for in the past month and prices are still plummeting. I think we can finally say the vast majority of backers have finally seen the reality of the situation.
Swabby wrote: Yeah it is a scavengers market now. I have picked up two wave one + bonus sets for less than I kickstarter one set for in the past month and prices are still plummeting. I think we can finally say the vast majority of backers have finally seen the reality of the situation.
yeah debating if I should assemble my stuff before listing since completed models might sell better, hopefully.
Swabby wrote: Yeah it is a scavengers market now. I have picked up two wave one + bonus sets for less than I kickstarter one set for in the past month and prices are still plummeting. I think we can finally say the vast majority of backers have finally seen the reality of the situation.
Definitely glad I sold off most of my wave one right when it launched. Basically broke even, and I still have a core box+ left over, and frankly I ponder getting rid of more of that.
It's a shame so many people contributed so much to something that left them so disappointed. I'm not happy more people are leaving the game or clearing out space or whatever the reason, but the line of how we got to this point isn't surprising either, based on how PB has been treating the backers and product.
Swabby wrote: Yeah it is a scavengers market now. I have picked up two wave one + bonus sets for less than I kickstarter one set for in the past month and prices are still plummeting. I think we can finally say the vast majority of backers have finally seen the reality of the situation.
yeah debating if I should assemble my stuff before listing since completed models might sell better, hopefully.
IME, you always get more for still-on-sprue. (Awesome paint jobs excepted, of course)
This clusterfeth may,of course, be an exception, do to the fethtarded nature of the product actually produced.
Swabby wrote: Yeah it is a scavengers market now. I have picked up two wave one + bonus sets for less than I kickstarter one set for in the past month and prices are still plummeting. I think we can finally say the vast majority of backers have finally seen the reality of the situation.
yeah debating if I should assemble my stuff before listing since completed models might sell better, hopefully.
IME, you always get more for still-on-sprue. (Awesome paint jobs excepted, of course)
This clusterfeth may,of course, be an exception, do to the fethtarded nature of the product actually produced.
yeah i'm always a on sprue buyer, but with these minis it may be a better option built, since noticed quite a few built ones selling and the paint jobs well I've seen 3 year olds do better jobs.
Swabby wrote: Yeah it is a scavengers market now. I have picked up two wave one + bonus sets for less than I kickstarter one set for in the past month and prices are still plummeting. I think we can finally say the vast majority of backers have finally seen the reality of the situation.
yeah debating if I should assemble my stuff before listing since completed models might sell better, hopefully.
I'm not sure if the bottom has been hit, but it always makes me wonder what my Sedition Wars stuff is going for... It looks like some people are buying SW for $50+, which is higher than it was the last time I looked. I think SW has now finished being cleared out. Maybe I should sell my assembled core box. Hm.
For RRT specifically, I think there is no loss in value for a nicely-assembled set compared to NOS. It's a lot of work to build these, and anyone who just wants to play VTs vs Pods would be well-served with a preassembled set. That said, if you haven't started on any of it, list it NOS / NIB / NISB. I guarantee you won't recover the minimum wage value of whatever time you spend assembling it. And if you're unloading, you're better of not throwing your time at it. Spend time on stuff you keep, not stuff you sell.
Swabby wrote: Yeah it is a scavengers market now. I have picked up two wave one + bonus sets for less than I kickstarter one set for in the past month and prices are still plummeting. I think we can finally say the vast majority of backers have finally seen the reality of the situation.
yeah debating if I should assemble my stuff before listing since completed models might sell better, hopefully.
I'm not sure if the bottom has been hit, but it always makes me wonder what my Sedition Wars stuff is going for... It looks like some people are buying SW for $50+, which is higher than it was the last time I looked. I think SW has now finished being cleared out. Maybe I should sell my assembled core box. Hm.
For RRT specifically, I think there is no loss in value for a nicely-assembled set compared to NOS. It's a lot of work to build these, and anyone who just wants to play VTs vs Pods would be well-served with a preassembled set. That said, if you haven't started on any of it, list it NOS / NIB / NISB. I guarantee you won't recover the minimum wage value of whatever time you spend assembling it. And if you're unloading, you're better of not throwing your time at it. Spend time on stuff you keep, not stuff you sell.
well only things I got left to build is some veritech with Supers parts, some glaugs and recovery pods and a bunch of my Alt. items, question is when I sell where to sell? on eBay? or ?
Swabby wrote: IfI recall correctly you have a ton of stuff. You will probably make more in smaller chunks. If you just want to dump it prepare for deep cuts.
well i'll think on it, now back to our regularly scheduled rant on PB's failure to deliver.
Asterios wrote: of course PB is having problems with finding quotes, since how many manufacturers will do it for free or for RRT stock? or drawings signed by Kevin ?
Asterios wrote: of course PB is having problems with finding quotes, since how many manufacturers will do it for free or for RRT stock? or drawings signed by Kevin ?
also at this point i'm trying to figure out how I will sell my stuff off since there is no point continuing with a dead game, and can only fly them around going pew pew pew so much.
such a pity watching an auction on eBay which has 3 starter sets that will end soon with only one bid of $69.99
Wow I sold my Wave 1 a year ago for$100. I got out at the right time.
The great thing at seeing other people's models: you get good ideas.
I was concerned of committing to a certain decorated base depending on what was played but I forgot that the destroids are always ground pounders so gravel on the base is Ok. The lining looks to be a must to me.
Good work all!
So, meanwhile back at Palladium... the lights are off to save money, the geese are grazing, Kevin has plans that will happen "soon".
I am actually super bummed to find out that so many of the regular names here on Dakka have or are getting out of the game. I mean I get it, but having spent literally years riding this roller coaster has really made me appreciate almost everyone involved in this thing as fellow fans and gamers.
Swabby wrote: I am actually super bummed to find out that so many of the regular names here on Dakka have or are getting out of the game. I mean I get it, but having spent literally years riding this roller coaster has really made me appreciate almost everyone involved in this thing as fellow fans and gamers.
I find it odd to go "all-in" and then give up and try to get rid of the whole thing.
Once that is done, other than money owed, there is little to keep those players involved.
I found it rather painful after seeing all those models made by Asterios, all that he accomplished and it is just ashes to him... really?
Should have stopped with the first five models.
Hell, I picked up a new copy of CarWars since my old one is kinda chewed... nostalgia is killer for me.
I fully intend one way or another to have all the models I need and a complete game ready to go.
The good thing is, a couple of my favorite games takes no model hobby time, only game time and occasional list building.
So after some new projects are dealt with, those models will see some love.
I came to gaming from a full spectrum viewpoint: I like to build models, sculpt, paint, strategy, social... even an unsupported game such as this still has many worthy elements to pursue.
I do hope despite the disappointment / rage inducing PB maneuvers will not make people lose sight of the fact you do not need a company to make a game good: you can do it yourself.
Swabby wrote: I am actually super bummed to find out that so many of the regular names here on Dakka have or are getting out of the game. I mean I get it, but having spent literally years riding this roller coaster has really made me appreciate almost everyone involved in this thing as fellow fans and gamers.
I can't speak for anyone else but in order to get out of a game I have to be actually in it (i.e. playing) and that sadly wasn't the case for me. The entirety of my play experience was a few solo engagements to test out some limited house rules on my blog (just addendums to the existing rules and not as all encompassing as Mike's) and a single demo game involving one core unit each. That wasn't enough for me to keep a crapload of unbuilt sprues and extra rulebooks once I bought some painted figs. I still have enough painted to play a 200-300pt game (the latter pt total due to bumping up by special characters and options, not any more models though) and another four core units unbuilt (destroid squadron, veritech squadron, battepod squadron, and Q-rau squadron) that I can customize myself in the rare event I actually find a willing participant. I just don't have anything to contribute here much other than personal anecdotes and the occasional jab at palladium so I've tended to lurk more recently. I've lost that robotech lovin' feeling to borrow a song from the Righteous Brothers.
Talizvar wrote: I came to gaming from a full spectrum viewpoint: I like to build models, sculpt, paint, strategy, social... even an unsupported game such as this still has many worthy elements to pursue.
I do hope despite the disappointment / rage inducing PB maneuvers will not make people lose sight of the fact you do not need a company to make a game good: you can do it yourself.
For me, it was literally the parts count. I am not a modeller. I paint poorly, and I get no enjoyment from that aspect of the hobby. I have difficulty assembling due to a fine muscle control condition. It's not terrible, I got in on the Heavy Gear one, once it was clear they were more reasonable to my expectations.
So when it became clear that "SpartanGate" wasn't what I envisioned, and with the number of figures needed, coupled with it becoming clear PB wasn't running things in a professional manner (and got so much worse after), I bailed, and was able to sell my pledges (for an acceptable loss) before they shipped. As Warboss mentioned, even if the mechanics had of revolutionized the industry (they're a step above mediocre), there would have been no games played due to assembly and trying to convince others to play. And I wasn't prepared to ask other people to assemble and paint these things. I have boundaries on how big an donkey-cave I'll be to my friends.
And while I agree with you that an unsupported game can still invite entertainment, that's different to an incompetent one continuing to mishandle things. Because a dead game, noone has expectations. A zombied one, has too many pitfalls.
And don't miscount the personal distaste factor for some. I won't go into specifics (because people's opinions and passions vary too much), but when a musician/athlete/actor/author/etc is a truly awful person, it's not uncommon for people to treat their work with the same contempt as their feelings for that person. Additionally, anyone who is drawn to the game as a result of the people like yourself, Mike, and everyone else keeping this alive, is potentially adding to the coffers of PB, if they aren't fully informed, and see things out of context. And that I wouldn't do. I managed to steer someone I knew (barely) away from PB at GenCon, because he'd seen bits, but wasn't aware of the situation. Just told him of the parts count, that it was two years old, and that there was no estimate/schedule on anything more, even though they owed hundreds of thousands of dollars in material to people who had already paid.
So, now, like Warboss, I'm mostly just hanging around, empathizing with the people that are still owed (cause I do feel for those that are tied to this), and finding the humour in watching PB stumble from one stupid mistake to the other like a drunken toddler with a bucket on it's head. Because from the outside, it's been a ludicrous, entertaining ride, as PB just can't seem to get anything right. Once (if) the project is complete, or the company sinks, I'll be done with ever thinking about PB. Unless they try another KS campaign. Because there will be LOL's to be had then.
I have never played RRT, don't intend to. I have maybe 1/3 of what I paid for (because half of my split was the Monster, which is all I really wanted - the rest are just window dressing). So yeah, I'm pretty pissed at Kevin and PB.
I'm just hanging around, hoping to see Karma come around. Big time.
I never intended to play the RRT game, I just wanted the models - I've been building models long before I got into gaming. Besides, there's plenty of other games *cough*Battletech, Nodal Wars*cough* I can use them elsewhere if I want. If it comes right down to it, I'll set them up on the table and make roaring engine noises and pew pew noises if I have to.
As much as I dislike what this fiasco has turned into, you'd have to pry the models I have out of my cold, dead fingers.
And like John, I still want my Monster (and YF-4's).
The more time I spend with the rules the more I think they can be salvaged into something really great. Really they just need some of the more ridiculous things that complicate it removed or changed (like the RAW and FAQ blast rules)
Swabby wrote: I am actually super bummed to find out that so many of the regular names here on Dakka have or are getting out of the game. I mean I get it, but having spent literally years riding this roller coaster has really made me appreciate almost everyone involved in this thing as fellow fans and gamers.
JohnHwangDD wrote:I have never played RRT, don't intend to. I have maybe 1/3 of what I paid for (because half of my split was the Monster, which is all I really wanted - the rest are just window dressing). So yeah, I'm pretty pissed at Kevin and PB.
I'm just hanging around, hoping to see Karma come around. Big time.
At this point, I really hope Kev's karma runs over his dogma
Stormonu wrote:I never intended to play the RRT game, I just wanted the models - I've been building models long before I got into gaming. Besides, there's plenty of other games *cough*Battletech, Nodal Wars*cough* I can use them elsewhere if I want. If it comes right down to it, I'll set them up on the table and make roaring engine noises and pew pew noises if I have to.
As much as I dislike what this fiasco has turned into, you'd have to pry the models I have out of my cold, dead fingers.
And like John, I still want my Monster (and YF-4's).
Same here. Disgruntled modeller that would have built the models I had pledged for and posted them online to help keep the game alive. Unfortunately my optimism has opted out and I doubt anything will see the light of day again. I just can't bring myself to do more to publicise and promote this fiasco than PB are willing to do themselves. Heck, if I was just to get my SDF-1, I'd probably call it quits at this point.
Y'know, I don't hate "We Will Win", perhaps due to my love of climactic epic showdowns between massive forces and overwhelming odds, so maybe it gets a pass for being paired with one of my favourite battles in the series.
Yes I have terrible musical taste come at me, bros.
warboss wrote: This topic is as thread derailing as a Nodal Wars update. Every fan worth his or her protoculture knows Stage Fright is the best song. DUH! :-)
warboss wrote: This topic is as thread derailing as a Nodal Wars update. Every fan worth his or her protoculture knows Stage Fright is the best song. DUH! :-)
warboss wrote: This topic is as thread derailing as a Nodal Wars update. Every fan worth his or her protoculture knows Stage Fright is the best song. DUH! :-)
so tempted.......must not say it........
Don't give in to the tempation!
No worries, I realize that this forum no longer has any reason for me to participate in it anymore either. I'll join the rest while people sing Minmei songs......
I wasn't joking about a Minmei song about this kickstarter though haha. It is bad enough to merit one.
Edit:
Working on my artillery pods for my upcoming match
Edit 2:
And we get a weekly update tonight:
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™
The PDFs of Wave 2 cards are being posted on DriveThruRPG.com at a rate of 2 every day until they are ALL posted and available to you over the next several weeks. We are still waiting on a couple of manufacturing quotes, as well as working on plans for upcoming releases like the Robotech® Ghost Fleet sourcebook and RRT scenario books.
UPDATE: Available on DriveThruRPG.com – new Wave Two Robotech® RPG Tactics™ cards every day, plus The Rifter®, Rifts® and other titles added weekly to DriveThruRPG.com"
Pretty sure this is the same as last time verbatim
Edit 3:
I tracked the last one down from the 9th because it was nagging me:
"UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™
The PDFs of Wave 2 cards are being posted on DriveThruRPG.com at a rate of 2 every day until they are ALL posted and available to you over the next several weeks. Otherwise, still waiting for that price quote and working on plans for releases.
UPDATE: Available on DriveThruRPG.com – new Wave Two Robotech® RPG Tactics™ cards every day, plus The Rifter®, Rifts® and other titles added weekly to DriveThruRPG.com "
So, I guess the new thing is a rehash of the old RPG ghost ship supplement for RRT? What?
If anyone with built minis has leftover VT heads and weapons bits, I'd be interested in buying them or trading for them. However, I'm not looking to spend a lot of money over shipping costs because then I would feel like Kevin won.
Swabby wrote: "I've lost that robotech lovin' feeling”
We should start a kickstarter to raise money to pay a musician to turn this into a Minmei song.
And someone will start a gofundme to hire a hitman to stop you.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: If anyone with built minis has leftover VT heads and weapons bits, I'd be interested in buying them or trading for them. However, I'm not looking to spend a lot of money over shipping costs because then I would feel like Kevin won.
I got you, bro.
I'll have to dig to find them, but I don't recall trashing the bitz. If I find them, we can meet up locally, and I'll pass all of my spare VT bitz over to you for some kind of nominal trade / sale.
I thought about just listing all my spare bitz on eBay since have a whole crud load of them, might make one lot or a UEDF lot and a Zentraedi lot, or break it down by unit type lot, but not sure ?
Is anyone else impressed that it actually transforms despite being a superdeformed abomination?
I'd certainly wait to see how it transforms before being impressed by it. If it does not need disassembling and separate parts, it would certainly be impressive. Otherwise, not so much.
Yeah, I've been thinking of getting a VT for my desk, ideally one that transformed in a cool/fun way (not just pull parts off and stick them back on in other places), but $100+ Canadian plus shipping is a bit more than I'm willing to commit. And the 'super deformed' style doesn't do anything for me on top of that.
Yes, I'm aware they've been putting out various models for decades. It's a mix of laziness and saving up for a new apartment, or at least those are the current excuses.
Okay friends, I am in talks currently with a musician about making a kickstarter for a song about this kickstarter happen. Does anyone wanna take a stab at some lyrics?
"Stagefright go away, today is update day, this is my day to be subpar!"
Yeah, super-deformed generally does nothing for me. Though my kids thought it was cool to get me a 6-pack of super-deformed veritechs (and a SD alpha from the wife) a few years back.
Personally, I'd love to get my hands on the old Robotech Defender VT's, but so far all the kits have been out of my budget range.
That's some incredible looking work there, Swabby.
Unfortunately, my eyes have a hard time getting past the crappy missile pod design. The missing "missile", and that they're just nubbins on a flat surface, rather than looking like missiles. You've done a great job making them look good, but there's only so much quality lipstick you can put on a Palladium pig. I shudder to think what a below average painter (ok, me) would be able to accomplish in that regard.
Took me a bit to realize what you meant by upside down, as most of the pictures I've seen have the covers flipping open upwards (which is an inherently bad mechanical design, IMO), but the attachment to the cylinder that's usually found on the underneath of the missile cylinder. Honestly, if you hadn't pointed it out, I wouldn't have noticed.
But definitely a perfect example of what a great paintjob can do. What's the freehand on the chestplate?
Swabby wrote: Also as a side note it took me painting this mini to realize I assembled the arms upside down but alas it was too late.
Ah, see it now.
I would put that in the realm of an Easter egg and see if anyone notices.
Very fine looking model all the same. <edit>I now need to go back and check mine...
Morgan, it is a blurry (not sure why it came out blurry in the pic) L7 unit marking.
My biggest beef with the upside down arm thing is that it is so easy to do, there is literally nothing stopping you from accidentally swapping the front bits onto the wrong arms.
Swabby wrote: My biggest beef with the upside down arm thing is that it is so easy to do, there is literally nothing stopping you from accidentally swapping the front bits onto the wrong arms.
I think they were concerned with part count vs adding features to ensure a correctly oriented mount.
I second Nesbet's request: seeing more models of that caliber would be inspiring, please do show!
I just finished assembling and basing my Bolt Action army so some painting is in order. I hope to sneak some RRT models I got started on when I am tired of little men and need to see some robots.
This Harmony Gold convention panel video from RobotechX came up in my youtube feed this morning but I haven't had a chance to watch it yet so I'm not sure if they covered this kickstarter in any meaningful way.
warboss wrote: This Harmony Gold convention panel video from RobotechX came up in my youtube feed this morning but I haven't had a chance to watch it yet so I'm not sure if they covered this kickstarter in any meaningful way.
playback is disabled on that vid in other locations, and that panel was shown here already, but we saw a video that can be played here and it had a question section where someone brought up the invid and such for the game and they kind of brushed off the question saying they have nothing to do with it, but other then that the game was not brought up.
Sorry about the confusion. It popped up on my feed but I didn't get a chance to watch it until this evening. I didn't know offsite playback even could be disabled. The second part is up as well.
Actually, I just scanned through 15 pages and I couldn't find the last time that video was posted. Maybe it was a link instead of the actual video and thus flew under the radar?
Little help? I want to check something. If nothing else, from the preview image here and the one I seem to recall, I think it's from a different angle/recording.
Talizvar wrote: I second Nesbet's request: seeing more models of that caliber would be inspiring, please do show!
I just finished assembling and basing my Bolt Action army so some painting is in order. I hope to sneak some RRT models I got started on when I am tired of little men and need to see some robots.
I am going to hold off till I finish the last Spartan I have to work on for a full group shot but here are the Tomahawks.
Forar wrote: Actually, I just scanned through 15 pages and I couldn't find the last time that video was posted. Maybe it was a link instead of the actual video and thus flew under the radar?
Little help? I want to check something. If nothing else, from the preview image here and the one I seem to recall, I think it's from a different angle/recording.
from the San Diego CC around the 34:47 mark: video from same guy, so probably have to watch it on YouTube.
I find the part about seeing miniatures from other companies interesting, which means other companies not PB.
Forar wrote: Actually, I just scanned through 15 pages and I couldn't find the last time that video was posted. Maybe it was a link instead of the actual video and thus flew under the radar?
Little help? I want to check something. If nothing else, from the preview image here and the one I seem to recall, I think it's from a different angle/recording.
I just assumed that I missed the post with the pertinent info when you said we had the data already. The convention itself was only this past weekend and robotechX usually posts it fairly quickly.
I skimmed through the videos and didn't see an actual mention of palladium as a licensor (although I may have missed it on youtube fast forward screens). I tried to stop and play when the powerpoint slides changed to see what the topic was. The first Q&A question was "So is Robotech RPG tactics still coming out?" or something to the effect and they said they were nudging palladium to finish wave 2.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Nesbet:
Are you still updating your hobby blog? I was curious if you pretty much were sticking to facebook and dakka instead now since I've seen you post a decent amount of stuff here but the blog hasn't been updated since January.
Yup. But those are the third version of Gnerl in Shapeways. At least as I know. First there is a 1/200 model. Then a 1/285 model, but with rough edges. Bought two of these to try. And then Jean Jacques Bocquet came with these Gnerls and Lancers and Nosjaedul Ger and Ghosts, etc. Their models are awesome. The gnerls are just great, way better than the other models.
I just assumed that I missed the post with the pertinent info when you said we had the data already. The convention itself was only this past weekend and robotechX usually posts it fairly quickly.
I skimmed through the videos and didn't see an actual mention of palladium as a licensor (although I may have missed it on youtube fast forward screens). I tried to stop and play when the powerpoint slides changed to see what the topic was. The first Q&A question was "So is Robotech RPG tactics still coming out?" or something to the effect and they said they were nudging palladium to finish wave 2.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Nesbet:
Are you still updating your hobby blog? I was curious if you pretty much were sticking to facebook and dakka instead now since I've seen you post a decent amount of stuff here but the blog hasn't been updated since January.
Actually .. with the new president at Harmony Gold has anyone thought of posting complaints about Palladium on their Facebook page?
In the panel video he says he reads all comments... maybe make a big enough fire under Kevin's butt to see product in 2017
Genoside07 wrote: Actually .. with the new president at Harmony Gold has anyone thought of posting complaints about Palladium on their Facebook page?
In the panel video he says he reads all comments... maybe make a big enough fire under Kevin's butt to see product in 2017
That's a good idea. I don't personally use facebook except on rare occasions (read: a contest for free stuff makes me use the fluff account I set up) but it might be a good idea for folks to do so. I don't actually think it'll make a difference but maybe accurately stating just how bad it really is and (more importantly for them) the negative effect it has on robotech related purchases outside of palladium might convince them to do more than just nudge.
Genoside07 wrote: Actually .. with the new president at Harmony Gold has anyone thought of posting complaints about Palladium on their Facebook page?
In the panel video he says he reads all comments... maybe make a big enough fire under Kevin's butt to see product in 2017
Merijeek wrote: Flawed premise. With no money, they can't make anything. Doesn't matter if you nudge them or put a gun to their head.
IMHO, it would be worth the shot. PB probably or most probably blew all the money already, but we don't know that 100% sure (maybe 99%, ok) and this *could* lead to something. Anything. Anything would be better than this 3 year long wait (and counting).
Who is that guy? Can someone ponit me his profile address or where to harass him about wave2?
I would be happy if PB partners with Reaper to make wave 2 in bonesyum plastic. Better than nothing.
(I would kinda feel sorry for Reaper then, for their partnership choice xD)
Small matter of the Macross IP versus the Harmony Gold north American creation that still has dubious legal merit.
Much like RRT it is a rather dead-end IP that will have no new content to speak of. Maybe the comic-books they expect to produce can do something new.
I just cannot see them drumming-up anything that my kids would be interested in.
Maybe if they make a Minecraft mod...
or a phone app where you can fight Minmei against Khyron, rather like Marvel's "Contest of Champions" or DC's "Injustice: Gods Among us".
On second thoughts, that would be silly, there's not enough characters to keep people interested. [so maybe that's exactly what PB have been doing with our money!
Didn't HG take the license back? My understanding it was yanked from Palladium Books for a reason.
Robotech was a dead property at that point and palladium chose not to renew it. After a few years when Palladium needed a "fresh" property/rehash something old (after the Crisis of TreacheryTM) and HG had come out with the first new Robotech anime in roughly 15 years (Shadow Chronicles), they picked it up again. I was going every year to gencon at that time and oddly enough HG actually had a rep there for a robotech panel that year (but never before for 10+ years) like the one in the video posted which I attended. When asked by someone else if they were going to let Palladium redo their rpg to include the new series, the rep responded that they were approaching various rpg companies. My impression was that they didn't necessarily want Palladium to do it. I can only theorize further why (did they hear about how crappy their rules were by that point? did they think they could get more money out of other companies not almost at the brink of closure? was any other company even interested other than palladium at all?) but Palladium ended up again with the license the next year regardless. Add salt as needed.
Merijeek wrote: I want wait for Kevin's Bleat tonight to do his crazy end zone victory dance about how this Will Turn It All Around.
Hell, he probably ordered another 10,000 starter boxes as soon as he found out about that.
I never thought of that. I was commenting earlier of how the show has no relevance to my kids or anyone else pretty much under 30 or is into anime.
Now, the #1 reason we figure wave 2 is not happening is due to lack of funds.
Ordering 10,000 more starter boxes would be problematic.
I am sure they will spring into action.
Any day now the "Christmas in the fall" grab bag will go on sale.
To celebrate the release of Robotech on Netflicks, the starter box and a DICE BAG can be requested... for the easy price of $100 US (plus shipping and handling).
Oh it will be like the 80's all over again.
There is nothing new to report on this front, but ideas continue to fly on all fronts (including a cool idea for a new Character Card Wayne had yesterday). The PDFs of Wave 2 cards continue to be posted on DriveThruRPG.com at a rate of 2 every day until they are ALL posted and available to you over the next several weeks. We are still waiting on a couple of manufacturing quotes, as well as working on plans for upcoming releases like the Robotech® Ghost Fleet sourcebook and RRT scenario books.
So, at least some honesty in the first seven words. That's progress.
The rest is stock cut and paste wankery.
No mention that I can see of the recent HG con thing, or the Netflix thing. But both those require Kevin being on the ball with regards communication and technology. And we know that's not going to happen. Kevin might OWN the Robotech DVD's, but I'd bet a modest amount that if he watches them, the Luddite only watches them on VHS.
A new character card? I am totally hoping it is a full sized Zentraedi named Siem'bodolza that can dodge everything and anything for free but cannot attack ever. Instead you spend every command point you have, remove any other friendly character from your own team from the table along with their squad, declare a crisis of treachery, and are then allowed to slow play your opponent while repeating every ten minutes or so that your turn is 98% complete until they leave the game or die of dehydration.
Interesting idea. I would only add that the ability triggers only on the drawing of a red or black card from the yet to be announced RobotechTM RPGTM TacticsTM CardTM DeckTM (sold separately).
Swabby wrote: A new character card? I am totally hoping it is a full sized Zentraedi named Siem'bodolza that can dodge everything and anything for free but cannot attack ever. Instead you spend every command point you have, remove any other friendly character from your own team from the table along with their squad, declare a crisis of treachery, and are then allowed to slow play your opponent while repeating every ten minutes or so that your turn is 98% complete until they leave the game or die of dehydration.
I think it will be an officer with "Throw Under the Bus" ability. Every time the Siem'bodlza takes damage, assign it to another Zentraedi model.
(including a cool idea for a new Character Card Wayne had yesterday)
How much faith are we supposed to have in anything created by people who not only don't play the game, but don't even know the rules and have no sense of what balance is?
n815e wrote: How much faith are we supposed to have in anything created by people who not only don't play the game, but don't even know the rules and have no sense of what balance is?
How? That's NOT the question. Question should be WHO?
Who in his right mind would care or put faith in something like that, a special character, designed as you said, while not faving fulfilled the wave 2 rewards...
damn you PB, you piss me off every single week.
I think it will be an officer with "Throw Under the Bus" ability. Every time the Siem'bodlza takes damage, assign it to another Zentraedi model.
Don't forget that if the other model is removed from play as a casualty that the Siem'bodlza player can spawn another model next turn to replace it at the cost of one integrity point. This new model has the "fan friend" downgrade applied (-1 to all attributes) but is fearless within 6" of Siem'bodlza. Please note that this downgrade is cumulative and stacks with previous respawns.
Robotech used to be on Netflix, along with Macross Plus (and I think it may have had Macross II on there at some time as well).
And they're still not finished putting up Wave 2 cards? That's ... Actually quite like PB, considering they could have done it in one fell swoop in an afternoon.
Nesbet wrote: damn you PB, you piss me off every single week.
I would agree with this statement.
I have no idea what kind of special place they work in or what kind of prescribed or otherwise medication they take to rationalize the way they do.
This little blurb has many levels.
Right now, even if throwing under the bus happens: who cares?
Stormonu wrote: And they're still not finished putting up Wave 2 cards? That's ... Actually quite like PB, considering they could have done it in one fell swoop in an afternoon.
Palladium didn't adopt desktop publishing until, what, the mid-2000s? Probably when the waxer finally broke down. They're probably hand-writing the postscript code for the PDFs or something...
Balance wrote: Palladium didn't adopt desktop publishing until, what, the mid-2000s? Probably when the waxer finally broke down. They're probably hand-writing the postscript code for the PDFs or something...
That is assuming a certain level of skill/knowledge was picked-up no matter how old it may be, I doubt any of them there have/had that kind of chess-club brain.
Stormonu wrote: And they're still not finished putting up Wave 2 cards? That's ... Actually quite like PB, considering they could have done it in one fell swoop in an afternoon.
Palladium didn't adopt desktop publishing until, what, the mid-2000s? Probably when the waxer finally broke down. They're probably hand-writing the postscript code for the PDFs or something...
And probably uploading it from a public library computer, so they have to wait for the school kids to get off...
I honestly do not understand what the intent is behind this two cards a day thing. It almost seems like a marketing thing that somehow lost its way before it even started.
The cynic in me thinks it's a mixture of delaying tactic and way to pad the number of updates/demonstrate that they are still working on this product on a daily basis.
The hopeful part of me is that this is a count down to a surprise announcement in disguise.
Jefffar wrote: The cynic in me thinks it's a mixture of delaying tactic and way to pad the number of updates/demonstrate that they are still working on this product on a daily basis.
The hopeful part of me is that this is a count down to a surprise announcement in disguise.
megatrons2nd wrote: What update did they put the MSRP in? Drawing a blank, but remember seeing it at one point. Was curious how much they marked everything up later.
I don't think it was in an update. I think it may have been in a Newsletter, but I think we first caught that when some site announced the initial products (Retail Wave One, which eventually became Wave One, Period).
Heh, I moved on a long time ago. I revisit this thread only occasionally, and maybe the most fervent wish of Keven S. is coming true: People are moving on, they are apathetic and don't care anymore, and he is going to get away with it.
Stay tuned for next year when a new Kickstarter is launched! LOL
I moved on. I got sick of the wait and BS here with the comments and also PB in general. I visit here periodically but don't post very often and no longer actively work to find pictures and more to maintain interest on the Facebook page. I've even contemplated handing it over a few times.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sick of the "Please support our game because all we want to do is pretend we are important and make money but have no interest in actively doing anything ourselves."
JohnHwangDD wrote: I would gladly trade my outstanding Kickstarter items to just give Kevin a punch in the face. 10 bucks per minute in any boxing ring.
Kevin's newest Kickstarter where you can bid on packages from throwing pies in his face (ALA: Kevin Johnson recently) to getting in the boxing ring with him will be their biggest kickstarter ever.
I swear I saw an expected MSRP list and then some of the items went up by a largish amount......Btu then I've been working a ton, and it was a very long time ago.
I found I was happier not complaining about PB and RRT.
I might have missed you bunch a bit though.
I have been building up my Bolt Action army for the new game rule revision so RRT models got zero love out of me for quite some time.
When I do get back to them I think I will be happy. The selection of models for wave 2 not produced by Palladium will keep my happy.
Kevin likes attention. Not delivering and having our money also gave him a captive audience. Funny how a $100 is worth losing to ignore that narcissist.
megatrons2nd wrote: I swear I saw an expected MSRP list and then some of the items went up by a largish amount......Btu then I've been working a ton, and it was a very long time ago.
They briefly had MSRP's on the Kickstarter Campaign page, then took them down.
Months later (as I recall), sometime in mid 2013, some site announced the items that would be available at retail first (Core box, 2 destroid packs, VT pack, Pod pack, Artillery Pod pack, Command Pod pack), people noticed those prices had gone up around 20%. It didn't really seem to matter much at the time (to backers, at least), and was even noted as a reason we got an even better deal (I myself may have been guilty of making this argument at the time).
When PB announced in January of 2014 that there would be two waves, it was a big "oooooh, that makes sense" moment where "Retail Wave One" was now just "Wave One, Period."
So we had tentative MSRPs, which later proved inaccurate, and not surprisingly so, as PB massively increased their shipping costs with two waves (if they ever get around to that second wave) and has complained that the molds ended up costing twice what they'd expected as well.
megatrons2nd wrote: I swear I saw an expected MSRP list and then some of the items went up by a largish amount......Btu then I've been working a ton, and it was a very long time ago.
They briefly had MSRP's on the Kickstarter Campaign page, then took them down.
Months later (as I recall), sometime in mid 2013, some site announced the items that would be available at retail first (Core box, 2 destroid packs, VT pack, Pod pack, Artillery Pod pack, Command Pod pack), people noticed those prices had gone up around 20%. It didn't really seem to matter much at the time (to backers, at least), and was even noted as a reason we got an even better deal (I myself may have been guilty of making this argument at the time).
When PB announced in January of 2014 that there would be two waves, it was a big "oooooh, that makes sense" moment where "Retail Wave One" was now just "Wave One, Period."
So we had tentative MSRPs, which later proved inaccurate, and not surprisingly so, as PB massively increased their shipping costs with two waves (if they ever get around to that second wave) and has complained that the molds ended up costing twice what they'd expected as well.
Thank you. I wish I had taken a screen shot of it. If anyone has a screen shot of it, could you pm me a copy? Just collating my information.
Ok, PB started today uploading wave 1 cards...
Anyone willing to count how many days left until Wayne has nothing else to upload?
And what will happen then when that happens...
Nesbet wrote: Ok, PB started today uploading wave 1 cards...
Anyone willing to count how many days left until Wayne has nothing else to upload?
And what will happen then when that happens...
I didn't realize they were changing wave 1 stuff. Have they said what is changing? As for what happens after he's done uploading, my guess is the another Year of SilenceTM.
Changing? LOL Those are the same 2014 cards, just cut from the original PDF in several individual pages to upload 2 cards/day...
They are just uploading wave 1 cards, the same we have. Because of reasons.
No one has even said something about what happens when Wayne ends uploading the "2cardseachday-thing". Im just guessing that something could happen. Hopefully not another Year of SilenceTM.
Nesbet wrote: Changing? LOL Those are the same 2014 cards, just cut from the original PDF in several individual pages to upload 2 cards/day...
They are just uploading wave 1 cards, the same we have. Because of reasons.
No one has even said something about what happens when Wayne ends uploading the "2cardseachday-thing". Im just guessing that something could happen. Hopefully not another Year of SilenceTM.
Thanks for the clarification about it being just busy work.
When they finish the wave 1 cards, they'll put up the conventional units [/sarcasm]
I have tried to bitterly keep from falling into apathy to keep Kevin from winning. But the truth is, I couldn't care any less anymore. For me, this has become a lost cause, and I have better things to occupy my time than brooding on my hate and loathing for PB, Kevin and KS in gneral.
I don't see me ever finish painting the minis I have at this point - I keep piling other minis for games I'll actually play onto the plate before them. I'd never use PB rules anyway and at this point if anyone were to ask me about PB products, I'd tell them the company went out of business long ago. It's not lke they are producing any content to counter that statement anyway.
At a recent convention HG said they were pushing and helping PB to complete this, I think that they have a new guy in HG and perhaps the complaints and brand damage are finally sinking in.
I seriously doubt it. Kevin has proven time and again that he will do what he is(n't) going to do when he feels like it. HG may try to nudge, but Kevin will just shrug and return to what he was(n't) doing.
After all, he has Rifts, and he knows that will make him money. And that can't be taken from him.
It does get me thinking - how did PB ever lose the TMNT RPG license? Did it simply get too expensive?
Stormonu wrote: I seriously doubt it. Kevin has proven time and again that he will do what he is(n't) going to do when he feels like it. HG may try to nudge, but Kevin will just shrug and return to what he was(n't) doing.
After all, he has Rifts, and he knows that will make him money. And that can't be taken from him.
It does get me thinking - how did PB ever lose the TMNT RPG license? Did it simply get too expensive?
OK, at this point, I don't care how many parts the "models" come in. They can be a single cast, or have 800 parts. I don't care. I don't care what material they are cast in. I just WANT WHAT I PAID FOR. This is beyond stupid.
Is there anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who lives in the same city that the PB offices are located in? At this point, a complete outsider would be able to do this job better than the "experts" that are currently ruining this project.
Seriously, I will pay someone to apply for a job with PB, and at least TELL US WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON.
I would work for them, FOR FREE, if I lived in their state, just so SOMETHING was done with this disaster...
I think that ship has sailed.
Some accountant with a cattle-prod and mace immediately after the KS closed was needed.
I suspect with little or no money to rub together CaptainLoken could be a genius and not be able to do much for them now.
CaptainLoken wrote: OK, at this point, I don't care how many parts the "models" come in. They can be a single cast, or have 800 parts. I don't care. I don't care what material they are cast in. I just WANT WHAT I PAID FOR. This is beyond stupid.
Is there anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who lives in the same city that the PB offices are located in? At this point, a complete outsider would be able to do this job better than the "experts" that are currently ruining this project.
Seriously, I will pay someone to apply for a job with PB, and at least TELL US WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON.
I would work for them, FOR FREE, if I lived in their state, just so SOMETHING was done with this disaster...
Don't bother. I did plenty for them for free and they ignored it all or waited a couple years and then proclaim the idea as one of their own.
CaptainLoken wrote: OK, at this point, I don't care how many parts the "models" come in. They can be a single cast, or have 800 parts. I don't care. I don't care what material they are cast in. I just WANT WHAT I PAID FOR. This is beyond stupid.
Is there anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who lives in the same city that the PB offices are located in? At this point, a complete outsider would be able to do this job better than the "experts" that are currently ruining this project.
Seriously, I will pay someone to apply for a job with PB, and at least TELL US WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON.
I would work for them, FOR FREE, if I lived in their state, just so SOMETHING was done with this disaster...
Don't bother. I did plenty for them for free and they ignored it all or waited a couple years and then proclaim the idea as one of their own.
Well if youd done your research you should have known.... I couldn't be bothered going back and finding you saying that to quote, but ha!
Joyboozer wrote: Oh he did I can assure you, I remember losing respect for him when I read it.
Oookkkkk..... doesn't matter really. I'm way past the giving a gak with anything PB or RRT related but I'm pretty sure Forar is correct since I'm not a long term PB fan. It was only through luck, rather bad luck, that I ever heard of the KS. I was only somewhat aware of the PB reputation beforehand too. I may have referred to the idea that we should have done more research but I was also included in those that should have done more checking. Either way....meh.
They found more Raw Previews. Cause please buy them.
Kevin's in talk with Hollywood again. About a non-Rifts IP. And then mentions shopping several more. Why would anyone want to license anything not Robotech or Rifts related? I'm not knowledgeable on PB's IP's, but what else is there that isn't just a straight genre clone? I mean that seems to be their schtick. Take a genre (fantasy, superheroes, spys, supernatural, zombies) slap a PB framework on it, and voila, a new product line that they'll ignore, is born. Anyways, he was super excited. And we know often Kevin's enthusiasm translates into results.
That's the point my eyes start to glaze over, and I start skimming.
Oh Rifter. Whoopee. Another shift up of a promised release, and the ignoring of the several promised releases that are now late. Wowee! Oh, another spiel to please buy Raw Previews. Wheee!
Oh look, Christmas Grab Bags are back! With that very specific pricing again! Just say you'll get at least double the initial fething price, and quit with the "$89 to $95 OR MORE" crap. And all the claims it'll be great. There's even a disclaimer!
WARNING: Many gamers cannot stop with just one Christmas Surprise Package. Many order two or three. Some order six, seven and more. We always try to make each Grab Bag truly special, as the thousands of you who have ordered in the past know well. If you have never ordered a Palladium Christmas Grab Bag before, give it a try early, because you’ll be blown away and probably want to order a few more! You have been warned.
Seriously, I've been ill, and that makes me a little queasy.
Mention of the RRT cards hidden in a general DTRPG spiel that more heavily promotes the stuff that they give a rat's ass about.
Another "Please Buy Kevin's Crap At Auction" notice.
And as for RRT, they have a short spiel about it being the number one Anime on Crackle (wtf is Crackle?), the movie might be more a reality (seen no evidence of that), more Robotech is being licensed (Harmony Gold's last effort?), PB is gearing up for Wave 2 (*makes spanking motion*), and PLEASE BUY OUR STUFF.
Then the usual advertising spiel, with six, I repeat SIX books, advertised as being out by "Fall". Not including two Rifters. That's HOH:Arsenal, Secrets of Atlanteans, Disavowed, Haunted Tech, Garden of the Gods, all due before Winter, which I have been told by Forar in the US ends changes late December. And Hell Followed, due to ship October. I hope Kevin realizes that's THIS month. Note, that all of these books were on the "Completed by End of July" list, except Arsenal which is an extension of the original HoH. So for those keeping track, of the 8 books promised for first half, they got one done. And I don't have much hope they'll accomplish much more than that in the second half. Because they have zero ability to focus and complete a project.
His life story (if told truthfully) would actually make a great movie, culminating into the meltdown of what we are seeing happen right now.
I would honestly rather pay money to see it than the live action robotech movie. Especially if it involves something akin to a "hitler finds out how much wave 2 is going to cost" kind of scene.
Man, I am up way too late, tommorow I finally get to play this damn game, will get some pics for you guys.
Morgan, you forgot to mention that all of kev's energies in October wil be directed to his "Halloween" party. Shucks I believe this is the only thing he has been known to deliver on time.
No mention at all of the supposed tenders they were waiting on. Probably waiting on that Hollywood gold to pour in, but like you I am baffled as to which of their generic IP's is such a desirable commodity
- After the Bomb: post-apocalyptic mutant animals. Cartoon or video game, maybe, but probably too effects heavy for tv or cinema. "Isn't this just TNMT without the Turtles?"
- Beyond the Supernatural. Generic horror. Nothing that I know that distinguishes itself from any other of thousands of comics, books, or other such genre work. Bonus points; they'd probably have to change the name to avoid getting squashed by Supernatural, which I'd need an entire barrel of popcorn to enjoy watching happen.
- Rifts Chaos Earth. Apocalyptic sci-fi/fantasy. Don't see how this would have greater appeal than, say, Shadowrun which is (far as I've heard) actually releasing books and games these past few years, and I hope I don't have to argue that Shadowrun presumably has a larger fanbase. But it also probably costs more, we'll get into that later.
- Dead Reign. Generic zombies. Zombies are hot right now, but see above point; there's nothing I'm aware of that makes it its own thing.
- Heroes Unlimited. Generic superheroes. See Dead Reign.
- Macross 2. Licensed, not actually theirs.
- Mechanoid Invasion. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No.
- Nightbane. This... maybe. Of their in house settings, this one hits a few current topics, has some effects that might work with low effort or practically with minor enhancements. Setting doesn't require a lot of set dressing, can be put anywhere (teen high school drama, police procedural, X-Files rip off with a more supernatural bend to the larger arc, etc.
- Ninjas & Superspies. Genericy McGenericface.
- PFRPG. Lawl. I shouldn't even need to go into why this isn't happening. If D&D or Pathfinder can't have a tv show (currently on the air) and the D&D movies are stains on cinema, this D&D house mod isn't getting into theaters or onto screens anytime soon.
- Phase World. I cannot believe there's much demand for this.
- Revised RECON. Generic war-fighter stuff.
- Rifts. Already optioned, hasn't even gotten as far as 'development hell' in nearly a decade and a half.
- Robotech. Licensed, obviously.
- Splicers. Offshoot of Heroes Unlimited, as I recall, has an actual setting.
- Systems Failure. With Stranger Days' popularity, I could see a pre-Y2K 'period piece' having some appeal. Not too different from current times to make locations easy, get some music, build into something people might remember (young adults at least) or on the mystique of what we all supposedly thought (I should check on my beans and ammo stockpile).
- TMNT. Licensed.
- Valley of the Pharaohs. No. Just reboot The Mummy ffs (spoiler: this is a joke on like three levels... at least two... but it's two levels less than Palladium are innately)
Palladium's problem is that their goal/system is basically "here's the tools for the genre/setting, now build your own!" Very few of their lines have, as far as I know at least, a driving narrative that's really pulling people in. A few have more detailed world building effort put into them, but I can't fathom some producer gushing about how audiences will respond to The Wolfen Empire.
Which brings me to my next thought; that's why people are talking to them. Their entertainment industry clout is non-existent, they struggle to put actual products on shelves (both in terms of completing them, and in how few stores seem to be willing to hold onto them). Frankly, their gaky standings may be the appeal; get a name/setting with a little world building in place for a song, work from there. It's not the existing fandom that holds appeal (all hundreds of them), but someone lazy looking for part of the work to be done that they can get for a pittance.
I could be wrong. Maybe DC and Marvel's income is giving more legs to HU or Splicers, maybe CGI is getting cheap enough that doing Rifts well (fighting future nazis, woo!) could work, maybe some video games want to do Super Heroes or Horror or Sci-Fi or Fantasy but can't be bothered to buy up a license with enough pull to actually require more than pocket change?
But I doubt it.
And all of that still ignores the fact that not only do they have a small (admittedly rabid) fanbase, but the active dislike that exists out there, from people who hate their system, to RRT backers, to the simply toxic environment they cultivate on their own forums. Any dreams they might have of leveraging such a project would have to overcome the fact that finding people who actively dislike or loathe them online is not remotely hard to do, and anything big enough for general/global distribution will have people poking around for info/history and gleefully writing up about this company that appears to be subsisting on hairline margins ($89-95! Just say "double or more!", the specificity raises more questions than it allays, and shoutout to Morgan for being on the same page there!) and via the owner selling off art and toys on eBay.
The one product line that seems to have real legs in the gaming community (at least in the "oh, yeah, I played that back in high school..." sense) is already optioned. I can believe another maybe catching someone's eye in the bargain bin. I'm having a hard time believing people are chomping at the bit for Generic War Stuff and Generic Horror, unless it's about getting $500 worth of work for $5 and then doing the other million yourself. Y'know, save a little for the Christmas party's drink budget.
Oh look, Christmas Grab Bags are back! With that very specific pricing again! Just say you'll get at least double the initial fething price, and quit with the "$89 to $95 OR MORE" crap. And all the claims it'll be great. There's even a disclaimer!
WARNING: Many gamers cannot stop with just one Christmas Surprise Package. Many order two or three. Some order six, seven and more. We always try to make each Grab Bag truly special, as the thousands of you who have ordered in the past know well. If you have never ordered a Palladium Christmas Grab Bag before, give it a try early, because you’ll be blown away and probably want to order a few more! You have been warned.
Seriously, I've been ill, and that makes me a little queasy.
Honestly, I'm wondering what effect FFG's Thanksgiving sale will have on this? Even if I were the type to spend money on PB's garbage, this year, with FFG losing their GW license, I imagine I'm not the only one keeping some money ready to go for that clearance sale.
Guys Id bet money he just made the whole thing up. I have no doubt some volunteer is trying to shop their IP around, just as I have no doubt noone cares. Plenty of other properties around where the owner is more reasonable.
Palladium has historically had an agreement with a licensing agent to try and get their I.P.'s into other realms.
I forget the name of the firm, but it was the same one who did the licensing for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which is probably why Palladium wound up with that RPG for a while.
Could be that the guy managed to get a few nibbles.
The Malcontents traverse the wasteland to bring death to the UEDF!
We ended up playing a 4 player game at Rincon (2 teams, 1 squad each player) and the way the game works with alternating squad activations it went really smoothly. The game itself was brutal. My teammate lost both his valkyries and a couple of gnerls early on, but I was able to use my phalanx and take out an entire squad of enemy valkyries in one turn, while my artillery pods put a huge amount of hurt on the enemy destroids. The Malcontents ended up winning the field on turn 3. Missiles make or break a team when there isn't a ton of cover on the table. The pics I took of the battle in the gallery linked in the spoiler for anyone interested. I had a blast finally getting to play and really look forward to more, but man, there are aspects of this game that need serious revision.
Spoiler:
Edit:
I forgot to mention that there was actual prize support for the game, and swag in the form of a dogtag (granted it was dated for last year). I find it worth mentioning because handing out minis for a win is more than I have seen from any other casual event in a loooong time.
Everything else is under 20k, some by a very considerable margin (Mechanoids has 1,854, Systems Failure 1,842, Recon is under 4k, Chaos Earth is under 9k).
This isn't necessarily relevant to how a given development team might use a property, but it's pretty clear what the breadwinner is, what actually has an existing fanbase.
Which means either it's Rifts (already optioned) or something that they don't care about having an existing fanbase for (my 'they just want an existing setting to save time/heavy lifting on that aspect)
Edit: topical if because PB's financials being in question has been a long standing issue, and their alleged Hollywood Connections keep coming up, so it's fair to look over their gak and say "well, what's actually there".
And that's not haters. That's active participation by fans and detractors and everyone, all in their house. Anyone can go look at them and see what's drawing eyes and comments, and what isn't.
RRT itself sits at 6,661 posts, which struck me as a little funny.
Jefffar wrote: I forget the name of the firm, but it was the same one who did the licensing for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which is probably why Palladium wound up with that RPG for a while.
Nope. Only the comic was involved initially.
TMNTaOS was published 1985.
First cartoon was 1987. First movie was 1990.
And it's not like it did any favours for PB. Kevin is apparently on record (it's an audio interview, so I ain't listening) saying those two things killed the commercialization of, and in turn, the license for Palladium.
Shuttle wasn't mine, I just brought the minis and the playmat. In my head canon the malcontents were trying to secure the shuttle to head into orbit. It was pretty entertaining.
Do I think that is ever going to happen? No.
Something I keep in mind when dealing with liars and cheaters.
Manly tears.
