chaos0xomega wrote:
Hell, im skeptical as to whether or not wave 1 has even shipped out yet, doesnt seem to br much in the way of people posting pics or reviews out there kt seems, just a couple here and there that say stuff without evidence to back the claims.

So you believe that Palladium has not shipped any Wave 1. Gotcha.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm fairly certain it's been established that they're shipping simplest orders first - Battlecry by backer #, then Showdown by backer #, etc.

PB is definitely shipping. Just go look on eBay. Haters and PB apologist remain calm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just found out Kevin refuses to pay one of their freelance writers. Allegedly.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/109218555808079?view=permalink&id=867226963340564

If Kevin can't afford to pay this guy how will wave two get finished? Not good.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
PB is definitely shipping. Just go look on eBay. Haters and PB apologist remain calm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just found out Kevin refuses to pay one of their freelance writers. Allegedly.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/109218555808079?view=permalink&id=867226963340564

If Kevin can't afford to pay this guy how will wave two get finished? Not good.

meh, I doubt $150 is going to push any bars in either direction, more likely they butted heads over something stupid. I bet there is more to this than PB did not pay me my $150.

Either way his "business" decisions don't give me confidence when it comes to wave two. If the game flops in retail sales will he have enough money to finish wave two?

chaos0xomega wrote:
im inclined to agree with those that were of the opinion that they ran out of money for wave 2, seems more and more likely...

Hell, im skeptical as to whether or not wave 1 has even shipped out yet, doesnt seem to br much in the way of people posting pics or reviews out there kt seems, just a couple here and there that say stuff without evidence to back the claims.

I got mine in.
I just assembled these minis tonight. In fact, the fumes are killing my brain cells even as I post this. You're welcome.


I do have some comments and questions, though.

First: Aren't there supposed to be 7 veritechs and 18 regults in the box? Mine came with 5 veritechs (6 battloids) and 12 regults.

Anyway, they are much smaller than I had expected. They would be a lot less fiddly, fragile and frustrating for newbies to assemble if they were 50% to 100% longer (3.4ish to 8 times larger by volume). These minis will probably break if they see a lot of use.

On the positive side, they were a ton of fun to assemble. The ABS is as easy to clip, snip and scrape as HIPS, although you have to be careful because the plastic is much softer than, say, Mantic's new terrain sprue plastic, so it's easy to cut too much off. So easy. Mold lines were vanishingly small on most of the sprues I looked at, but not on all. Even if the mold lines are an issue for you, they are very easy to scrape off with the side of a knife. The material was fun and relaxing to work with for me, like HIPs and unlike Restic. An hour per veritech (per mode) and 20 minutes per regult seem like a reasonable amount of assembly time if you are trying not to be sloppy, but aren't obsessive about perfection.

Gluing was an issue. I used Plastruct Plastic Weld. The smell is terrible, but more importantly it doesn't work when I use it sparingly. If I do, the parts will 'dry' in about 2 seconds, before they form a good bond, and some pieces just fell right off. The bond was a lot stronger, working like plastic glue should, when I slathered it on both sides of any attachment point, but this led to a problem with melty fingerprints.

Over all, I'm happy with the minis. They are fun to assemble and fun to play with, but they will never win any award for boutique quality.

I'll probably end up buying more of certain destroids.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should add that these minis are about the same difficulty level to assemble as Wyrd's Malifaux plastics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, and the unlabeled feet on the regults must go with specific unlabled legs because I had to trim some of the tabs quite a bit to make them fit.

Really? An hour per veritech?

Depending on how thorough and careful you are and what heads or missiles you choose. A big part of it is also the gluing time. If you did several at the same time like an assembly line, it would be faster.

But, yeah, they do have a lot of tiny pieces.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I do have some comments and questions, though.

First: Aren't there supposed to be 7 veritechs and 18 regults in the box? Mine came with 5 veritechs (6 battloids) and 12 regults.

Nope.

The Core Box is 5 VT's and 12 Battlepods.

The "battlecry" tier added another 4 VT's and 12 more Battlepods, for a total of 9 and 24 per Battlecry respectively (so a Showdown is 18 and 48, etc).

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


I do have some comments and questions, though.

First: Aren't there supposed to be 7 veritechs and 18 regults in the box? Mine came with 5 veritechs (6 battloids) and 12 regults.

I noticed the same thing as things that I thought were supposed to be in the box weren't. I was confusing the base battlecry pledge without the stretch goals with the retail box. In my package, the remainder were in the big plastic "extras" baggie. I got concerned about it so I went back to my gallery here and took a look at what was supposed to be in my battlecry pledge and it was all correct. Some of what I thought were the boxed game parts were in the baggie.

Update from Kevin.


Saturday was awesome – Mini-Update, November 9, 2014

Saturday was awesome. There was a palpable excitement and joy to be FINALLY able to ship out Robotech® RPG Tactics™ nonstop. With containers #4 and #5 in the warehouse, we can ship like crazy, and that’s exactly what we are doing, and it feels good.

We had five volunteers on Saturday: Jimmy B. Hill and Kyle Slayton from Ohio, Christopher Ing who has been an amazing help every weekend we have been shipping (and is becoming another fan pal), Mark Dudley and Chuck Walton. Of course, the entire staff (Wayne, Jeff, Julius, Alex, Matt and myself) was here working away and Kathy Simmons made us her delicious Sloppy Joe recipe for lunch. Yum.

The really cool thing was that even though everyone was working very hard, and pretty much nonstop, there was a lot of laughter and animated conversations – almost a party atmosphere. Nice. It’s also fun to meet and chat for a few minutes with the many Kickstarter backers coming in to pick up their rewards. We had 8-10 people drop by on Saturday, a few even hung around for awhile to help. Very cool.

After shipping ending round 6:00 PM, I spent a couple hours writing. When I stopped to eat dinner, Chuck Walton was getting ready to leave. I told him if he wanted to talk for 15 minutes while I ate he was welcome do so. The next thing we knew it was 10:30 PM!! Yes, we are crazy. But it was an outstanding brainstorming session that left both of us excited about a number of future project.

It’s Sunday morning and helpers should start showing up any time now. Our goal is to have 1,000 packages ready to ship Monday morning. We are right on target with 490 already packed, posted, skidded and ready for shipment. We should be able to a comparable number today. We’ll continue to ship out 100-200 a day and make another big push next weekend, November 15 & 16, 2014.

We’ve been getting a number of Kickstarter backers emailing us saying, “Hey, my buddy got his Wave One rewards, but I haven’t gotten mine yet.” Do not worry, your rewards will be coming SOON! And Canada and Overseas will follow after that.

The Packing Process

Please remember that we are shipping out to 5,000+ backers something like 8,000 packages! This is a big under taking and takes time. More importantly, until we received Containers #4 & #5 (both delayed in port for weeks) just last week, we would ship and then have to stop when we ran out of main box games. So frustrating. NOW we can finally ship, ship, ship!

But that takes more time than you might imagine. To build 1,000 boxes takes a 4 man team 6-8 hours. To unbox the main game (they come three to a case) it takes a 4 man team 6-8 hours. Btw, that's 9 pallets of games. To collate, pack, seal up, post and stack on skids for shipping, it takes a 5-6 man team 7 hours to do around 500 packages. I’ll try to remember to have Wayne post some photos in the next Weekly Update.

Meanwhile, work progresses on upcoming releases, sales have been strong, people are loving Graveyard Earth, and Christmas Surprise Package orders are coming in and shipping out fast. I’m having fun selecting goodies for the Surprise Packages, but having trouble keeping the total value under $100. I love giving back to our wonderful fans during the holiday season.

That’s it for now. Have a great weekend. We'll be thinking of you as we slave away. lol

Sincerely,
Kevin Siembieda
Publisher, Writer and a very tired Game Designer

© Copyright November 9, 2014 Palladium Books Inc. All rights reserved.

Rifts®, The Rifter®, RECON®, Splicers®, Palladium Books®, The Palladium Fantasy Role-Playing Game®, Phase World®, Nightbane®, Megaverse®, The Mechanoids®, The Mechanoid Invasion®, Coalition Wars® and After the Bomb® are Registered Trademarks of Palladium Books Inc. RPG Tactics™, Beyond the Supernatural, Chaos Earth, Coalition States, Dead Reign, Heroes Unlimited, Ninjas & Superspies, Minion War, Mysteries of Magic, SAMAS, Thundercloud Galaxy, Three Galaxies, Vampire Kingdoms, and other published book titles, names, slogans and likenesses are trademarks of Palladium Books Inc., and Kevin Siembieda.

Robotech® and Robotech® The Shadow Chronicles® are Registered Trademarks of Harmony Gold USA, Inc.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
PB is definitely shipping. Just go look on eBay. Haters and PB apologist remain calm.

I believe a blanket declaration that Wave 1 has not shipped - and that, in fact, people that have the models, have shown painted models, all of the blogs, posts on the FB group, on TMP, listings on ebay, discussions of rules, photographs of my games with the models - are all entirely fabricated.
I'm not sure if this is worse than the earlier paranoid hysteria that specific backers were getting their pledges shipped first due to having voting YES in the Gencon poll versus NO and that " PB is conspiring to delay shipments because of a personal vendetta."

Updated Google Drive Files on Link

Shipping notice received!!

I'm sorry, I'm still skeptical wave one has shipped. Maybe you're just a PB plant sent here to lead us astray?

:-P

Well, I'm still skeptical about it, considering that the tracking link provided has an invalid tracking number. ;P (when I say invalid, I mean invalid, as in I'm returned a message that says this number is invalid, not even the usual "no records found").

chaos0xomega wrote:
Well, I'm still skeptical about it, considering that the tracking link provided has an invalid tracking number. ;P (when I say invalid, I mean invalid, as in I'm returned a message that says this number is invalid, not even the usual "no records found").

That's normal. Once they receive it they send the email but UNTIL the first time it is physically scanned at the facility you will not show anything. Same thing happened with my last couple of KS's and their orders.

Yeah, it'll take a day or two to activate/kick in/whatever.

A bunch of people have been reporting that. Hell, I had it with a recent shipment a week ago.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was active tomorrow sometime, perhaps after the pickup. Tuesday even, but give it a little time.

Still nothing for me. Backerkit and KS Backer numbers are in the #2200 range. Got a Showdown with add-ons. It's really frustrating how they are shipping this stuff. out of the 4-5 people that I know that have pledged, they have all gotten their pledges, or notifications. One person pledged the same as me pretty close. Annnnnticipation......

Although I do have a BC pledge on it's way to me that I bought from someone. So there's that.

fruitlewps wrote:
Still nothing for me. Backerkit and KS Backer numbers are in the #2200 range. Got a Showdown with add-ons. It's really frustrating how they are shipping this stuff. out of the 4-5 people that I know that have pledged, they have all gotten their pledges, or notifications. One person pledged the same as me pretty close. Annnnnticipation......

Although I do have a BC pledge on it's way to me that I bought from someone. So there's that.

Does he know it is on the way yet......

Yes. You can prepare a shipment through UPS Worldship and it will assign / reserve a tracking number for you (based on your 6-digit shipper number, which is the 6 digits immediately following the 1Z portion of the tracking number). However, until the End of Day is performed with Worldship, it won't update UPS' main database servers. That's how you can be assigned a tracking number but have the UPS site say it's invalid. Only once an End of Day has been run, will it update UPS proper, and then it will provide no tracking information (until such a time as a UPS person picks up their shipment). One of the additional benefits of running an End of Day is that it will immediately insert the "received by UPS" tracking update on every package included in the End of Day, so the UPS person doesn't have to scan every single package during a pickup.

So on a weekend, they
- prepare packages
- scan them through Worldship
- which generates tracking numbers
- automatically sends emails

on the next business day, UPS will
- pick up the packages
- Worldship will generate an End of Day
- which will activate the tracking numbers from the weekend
- and the UPS person will scan one barcode on the physical end of day report at the location, then marking the first tracking update for every package that is part of the pickup

A few hours later the UPS truck will reach a UPS hub, and all the boxes dumped onto a big conveyor belt, and are hit from all sides by laser scans that will scan the tracking number and remeasure/reweigh the box and send it off to the correct sorting area dependent on UPS delivery zones.

Guess I bit lucky then not having problems with the tracking #. When I opened the UPS app it mentioned the tracking # from the email and gave me the info with no problems. Can't wait till Thursday to get it.

I think y'all are misunderstanding me... the number provided is INVALID, as in there aren't enough digits to it. Its not an issue of 'theres no record of this number' its an issue of 'the number you have provided is invalid, please try again'. I've dealt with UPS and USPS enough in the last 6 months (let alone the past 2 weeks) to know the difference.

Also, the number was provided in the form of a link, however the link was apparrently not formatted correctly and cannot be opened, meaning I have to copy/paste the tracking number manually, I have a feeling that whatever screwed up the link may have also caused an incorrect tracking number (or a partial number missing a few digits or something) to show instead.

Sounds like a data entry problem to me. I wonder how the tracking numbers are entered into the system for the emails that are sent to us?

Either way you'll know in a few days one way or the other. I'd give it 2 weeks and if no joy call PB.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I think y'all are misunderstanding me... the number provided is INVALID, as in there aren't enough digits to it. Its not an issue of 'theres no record of this number' its an issue of 'the number you have provided is invalid, please try again'. I've dealt with UPS and USPS enough in the last 6 months (let alone the past 2 weeks) to know the difference.

Also, the number was provided in the form of a link, however the link was apparrently not formatted correctly and cannot be opened, meaning I have to copy/paste the tracking number manually, I have a feeling that whatever screwed up the link may have also caused an incorrect tracking number (or a partial number missing a few digits or something) to show instead.

I'm interested in seeing it - would you mind forwarded the email to me? judge242 at gmail

From Wayne on Mike's page, in regards to a backer's estimate that US domestic shipping should be wrapping up shortly;

"Wayne Smith: You might be. I did a rough count this morning and it looks like we've got 500-600 domestic left. We should be able to finish those this week even though they're the biggest ones."

Hopefully the 200'ish Canadian backers that show up in the Backers list can get sorted out in a couple of days. Who knows, my gak might be in the mail come Monday, could be available for pickup within the next 2 weeks or so.

Of course, there's still a lot of caveats, If's and asterisks attached to those statements, but it could, yes COULD be a light at the end of the tunnel.

... of Wave One.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
More from Wayne:

"Today we finished single Showdowns plus extras EXCEPT for those with Battle Foam bags. We just started SD + BF bag, we've got about 20 packed and about 90 more to do. Then I think we'll do the small group of SD and 2+ BF bags, then probably Sean's group with 3 BCs / SD + BC. We might do the 48 or so plain Recklesses first, which Brett falls into, because they'd be very quick to do (they fit perfectly into the boxes we have for them, and they're all identical, so packing and processing will go fast). Then we'll get to the biggest ones, with Reckless or more + extras."

"I'm glad you guys like it, because now the bad news: We're taking tomorrow off. Partly because it's Veterans' Day, and US Mail isn't running anyway, but mostly because we worked our butts off this past weekend, and will work next weekend too, so we all just really need it. First, though, I'm going to get back to processing some SD + BF bag packages for a couple more hours. UPS has picked up for today, but they'll go out Wednesday."

Sounds like I've still got another week and half/ two weeks till I get mine...

If it's any consolation, I just ran into a major snag with mine.

The Guardian Mode. WTF is going on with the arm tabs? Sid they even do a test assembly before going on to mass production?? Is there some trick I'm missing?

Let me know when Reckless ships.

I'll begin to care again.

Got a new shipping number, should be here tomorrow

This might have been brought up before, and if so, then I apologize.

I was over on Palladium's website checking prices, and noted that the difference in cost between the starter set and the expansion packs seems unusually large. The starter goes for $100. If you tally up everything in the starter and get the equivalent expansion packs, then you're looking at an MSRP of $218. Additionally, the starter comes with one extra unit (an extra VF). In short, even if you're exclusively interested in one side of the conflict, I can't see any reason to do your initial force expansion by buying the expansion packs. It makes much more sense to buy more starters. Each side has three expansion packs (or more) of figures in the starter box, and those three expansion packs cost more than the starter.

The sole exception to the above buying strategy is the Phalanx/Defender Expansion Pack, as those are unavailable in the starter, and obviously need to be purchased separately.

I've heard of discounts for starters, but this seems unusually extreme. Has Palladium said anything about the starter set price, and why it costs so much less than the expansions do?

The GW starters are also priced fairly reasonably; the new Bolt Action Armored Fury starter set for Tank War has about $200 worth of stuff for $120 or so. Most starter sets are loss leaders / break even points, to get people playing. Robotech appears to be no different.

I agree that having starters be a better value for starting players is generally a good thing. Sometimes (like in 40k) the figs themselves are different sculpts but for smaller companies they're frequently the same. I don't expect the individual boxes of stuff that is in the starters to be a big seller once all the products are delivered but it is nice that you can buy it separately. The wave 2 SKUs will add alot of variety to the product line when they get here sometime in late 2015/early 2016 in all likelihood.

 judgedoug wrote:
The GW starters are also priced fairly reasonably; the new Bolt Action Armored Fury starter set for Tank War has about $200 worth of stuff for $120 or so. Most starter sets are loss leaders / break even points, to get people playing. Robotech appears to be no different.

$128 for the Armored Fury starter, according to Warlord's webstore.

However, if I want to buy three more M4 Shermans from Warlord, it'll only cost me $87. If I want to buy two more Panthers from Warlord, it'll cost me $64. i.e. if I'm only interested in one side, and not both, it's still more economical for me to buy the individual tanks.

That's not the case with the Robotech starter. Replacing the UEDF contents of the Robotech starter will set you back $107 (and you'll still be short one VF). Replacing the Zentraedi contents of the starter will set you back $111. Buying a brand new starter will only cost you $100.

That's what I find unusual here.

What's the maths on the Island of Blood or Dark Vengeance?

Given GW's ridiculous prices, those might be similar to the Robotech starter. I'll only cover one of them, though...


Let's see...

Dark Vengeance is $130

A space marine tactical squad runs for $50 (I don't see a Dark Angels specific squad on their web page).
A Death Wing terminator squad will set you back $70
And a trio of Raven Wing bikes will hit your wallet for another $50

Even if you're not interested in duplicate heroes (i.e. the Company Master and Librarian), this is still a pretty good deal. The Dark Angels troops alone will cost you $170, which is $40 more than the starter.


On the Chaos side, you're looking at -

Twenty Chaos Cultists for $48 (that's waaaay too inexpensive for GW )
Six Chosen - there's no 40K entry for Chosen on the website, and I can't figure out what figures they use; they look like Chaos Marines with slightly more "stuff" attached); based on the Chaos Marine price, I'm going with $36
Aspiring Champion - $24 (my wallet just started screaming...)
Hellbrute - $65
Chaos Lord - I don't see the exact one show in the pictures, but there's another generic one for $24 (the screams just got louder)

So...

Chaos Cultists, Chosen, and Hellbrute will set you back $149 if purchased separately.



Now not everyone's going to want six bikes or ten terminators. But they are an option. And if you want them, then purchasing another starter is a pretty good deal.

The value of the WHFB and 40k starter stuff is (judging by the secondary market trade values people assign) less valuable than a fully poseable kit. Robotech doesn't have that issue as the individual and starter kits are one and the same.

Also, Eumerin, I'm not sure where you're getting your prices but at least one is off. Your flag has the US but the Deathwing squad is $60 USD. You may need to check your prices and flag on the GW website to get the correct values.

I'm pulling the prices off of the GW site. So far as I can tell, I'm on the US site and the prices are in US dollars. And $70 is what's listed for the Deathwing Terminator Squad.

Generic terminators are only $60.

I'm not sure why we're seeing different prices. Maybe they just bumped it up?

Check your country flag. If your'e in the US (like your flag here indicates), you're checking some other country's prices. The tab is in the upper right corner. I just rechecked the Deathwing box and it definitely is $60 USD just like I saw last weekend at my FLGS.

Oops...

That was the Canadian site. No clue how I ended up there. It looks like those prices should have been roughly 16% - 20% less across the board.
Note that the price drop includes the starter set, so the basic ratios are still roughly the same.

I'll let forar comment on the (in)justice of higher canadian prices when they don't match the exchange rate. Using the deathwing box as an example, it has 5 distinct models that can be assembled each in at least one of three ways and enough extraneous bits to probably kit out probably another 5 terminators with extra bits/weapons/flair/etc. The starter set ones can only be assembled in one pose each and have no extra bits; they're nice but they're definitely not as valuable. I can't say I've been following the secondary market prices of the current starter sprues but back in 5th edition the AOBR monopose starter stuff sold generally for about 1/3 the price of the multipose kits on average (sometimes a bit more, sometimes less). Using GW stuff as a comparison is probably a bad idea for that reason.

AOBR was 10-15 for a squad of marines. A great way to build a full battle co.

Now in Storm Claw you got the real deal multipose. (Space Wolfs/Orks) and it was only 125 IIRC.

All the goodies in the Box set is what got me to do Showdown vs. BC++++extras. What I want are VTs It costs alot to get an extra 9.

Still the expansion kits are good because maybe you don't want to spend 100. Maybe you don't need 5 more vertiechs (6 battleoids) and you just need two. Then you've got a nice squadron with a support and a leader.

They won't be huge sellers but they will look nice on the shelf. In Xwing everyone bought 2 or 3 starter sets. because you needed 3 Xwings and at least 4 TIEs . They were smart and put exclusive characters in the singles for the X-wing and TIE. They should have put the malcontent stuff exclusive in the the veritech expansion.

I want lots of VTs, hence why I went SD plus BC.

Can someone please tell me how army organization for veritech squadrons work? Reason being, I'm trying to plan out how to build my squadrons but I don't know in what numbers and combinations of types can be used at once.

 warboss wrote:
I'll let forar comment on the (in)justice of higher canadian prices when they don't match the exchange rate.

It's always been an issue with GW. Not that long ago, when the AU was actually above parity, there was a Marine army box set that was $180US, or $300AU. It was plainly ridiculous.

As to the original poster's question, the main reason for the disparity was the change in pricing. Initially, the boxed set was going to be <$100, and the expansion boxes for Wave 1 be about $25 (initial pricing was retail was ~+$5 over KS prices). Then they jacked the prices up on the expansions by about 30% but realized that going over $100 on the box set would be a mistake. So, that explains the primary difference. At $25 per expansion, it's $150 value (+ the extra Valk + stuff), which isn't as obviously a big an issue.

From the initial Press Release
$90 retail price (tentative). The price of the final box set is not yet determined, but we want to hold it at the $80-$90 range.
Expansion kits will fall into the $25-$30 range for most.

Yeah, it's basically a bulk discount. I don't generally find it quite so extreme (example; the X-Wing core can generally be found online and in shops I visit for about the cost of the 3 ships inside, if not a little less, plus the templates, tokens, dice, booklet, etc).

It's been pointed out by many in the past that to buff up ones available forces, a pair of Cores is a pretty damned fine way to start, and assuming a shop with free online shipping can be found, it can probably be done for around $140 US, for 70 models (if I'm not mistaken).

So, yeah. Other expansions will hold appeal for adding to things that people flat out don't have (Spartan/Phalanx Destroid pack and the Support Artillery Pod pack), but the other 4 wave one expansions? It'll be a weird place where if you plan to get 2-3 of them, why not just get a core box instead? Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if a secondary market evolved wherein people simply bought a core and sold off the figures they didn't want. Why spend $50 on two Pod packs when you can spend $70 to get them and then sell the remaining bits off for more than $20?

I could see the value of VT, Tomahawk/Defender, Battlepod and Command Pod packs plummeting if that became common enough. Why spend $25 for them (or hell, full MSRP on their site) when it's possible to sell them for $15 apiece and still come out ahead by breaking up a core box? Those are kinda thin margins, but hell, toss in a couple of bucks each for the dice sets, the book, the cards, and I could see it working out for some people.

Perhaps an extreme example, but the math has always shown the cores to be a fairly impressive deal. The bump in expansion MSRP without a matching one for the core box (I think it jumped $10) just exacerbated that.

So, can I roll into my FLGS and get this yet?

 Easy E wrote:
So, can I roll into my FLGS and get this yet?

lawl.

Oh, wait, in case you're serious; no.

US distribution should complete this week (give or take), and they have enough material on hand to ship to almost all of the backers, so then it just becomes a question of when they wrap up International shipping (maybe by the end of the month?) and how long it takes them to get stuff out to retail through their distributors.

Maybe it'll start showing on shelves in December. Maybe even November if they decide to send out a pile of boxes while completing backer distribution, but for now we really don't know.

Morgan Vening wrote:
As to the original poster's question, the main reason for the disparity was the change in pricing. Initially, the boxed set was going to be <$100, and the expansion boxes for Wave 1 be about $25 (initial pricing was retail was ~+$5 over KS prices). Then they jacked the prices up on the expansions by about 30% but realized that going over $100 on the box set would be a mistake. So, that explains the primary difference. At $25 per expansion, it's $150 value (+ the extra Valk + stuff), which isn't as obviously a big an issue.

That makes sense. And the half-cost at $150 (i.e. what you'd be looking at if you only wanted to bulk up one side) is $75, which is significantly less than the starter.

At any rate, if the game catches on, then they're going to be selling a *lot* of starters. I'm guessing that Palladium is going to make a strong push to get people to buy into the other expansions. If the margins are as bad as the price change suggests, then they're going to need the money.

Prepping

Laminating

 Spartan-Kun wrote:
I want lots of VTs, hence why I went SD plus BC.

Can someone please tell me how army organization for veritech squadrons work? Reason being, I'm trying to plan out how to build my squadrons but I don't know in what numbers and combinations of types can be used at once.

The cartoon had squads at 3 veritechs, 1 leader and 2 wingmen, the game has 1 squadron at 4 veritechs.


and Mike how does one get a set of those nice laminated cards of yours?

Asterios wrote:
The cartoon had squads at 3 veritechs, 1 leader and 2 wingmen, the game has 1 squadron at 4 veritechs.

Did we ever see any flight-sized units other than Vermillion? Just curious.

Real-world organization is four aircraft per flight, but fictional militaries often use three aircraft because a symmetrical 'V' formation looks cooler than the lop-sided 'V' formation that you get with four aircraft.

So I've made an interesting discovery. Could just be my printer settings. When I print 2 sheets per page from the Power Point file it shrinks them just a bit. About 3/8's of an inch each way. Not too bad but would look crappy in a 4 x 6 pouch. IF you print from the PDF file they print out exactly 4 x 6. Always do a test print before you print a bunch of them. Set your setting to 2 per page and landscape orientation.

PDF files have been uploaded to the google drive
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0VSNzmthd1vSlYtU04xVTlYdWc&authuser=0

Anyone who creates documents for print in powerpoint should be shot! Do it in Indesign and put a bleed on it!
Also Mike, your laminator looks very nice.

Eumerin wrote:

Asterios wrote:
The cartoon had squads at 3 veritechs, 1 leader and 2 wingmen, the game has 1 squadron at 4 veritechs.

Did we ever see any flight-sized units other than Vermillion? Just curious.

Real-world organization is four aircraft per flight, but fictional militaries often use three aircraft because a symmetrical 'V' formation looks cooler than the lop-sided 'V' formation that you get with four aircraft.

actually flights in real world vary greatly from 2-5 planes per flight on average. but it all really depended on the reason for the flight, or the operation it was to undertake.

Thailand cannot import robotech at all. "FArung's" R really dicey

I got my stuff. Still don't believe Wave 1 has really shipped, clearly I was sent a package of very well made forgeries to silence my doubts and stop spreading my malcontent ramblings...

I'd offer my opinions, but I actually haven't really had a chance to look at it... the box art and sprues look pretty though.

Eumerin wrote:

Asterios wrote:
The cartoon had squads at 3 veritechs, 1 leader and 2 wingmen, the game has 1 squadron at 4 veritechs.

Did we ever see any flight-sized units other than Vermillion? Just curious.

Real-world organization is four aircraft per flight, but fictional militaries often use three aircraft because a symmetrical 'V' formation looks cooler than the lop-sided 'V' formation that you get with four aircraft.

But is so much less useful tactically speaking.

How have you dealt with all the extra mouth moisture receiving your package produced?

Joyboozer wrote:
How have you dealt with all the extra mouth moisture receiving your package produced?

me i'm not too enthused and my stuff is sitting in a closet.

Joyboozer wrote:
How have you dealt with all the extra mouth moisture receiving your package produced?

As a glass half full kinda guy at least Lord Kevin doesn't use that phrase anymore. I suspect though that he still uses it around the PB faithful.

Maybe this whole experience taught him that only Goblins, Wolfen and some of the other RPG races are prone to drueling and that humans.....not so much unless it's a 4-star meal or a really hot Human or Elven chick.

I am suffering from "dry mouth" in fear the package shows up in Canada the second week of December: we are gone that week.
I may have to pay the local children a finder's fee if it is left on my doorstep.

 Mike1975 wrote:
Maybe this whole experience taught him that only Goblins, Wolfen and some of the other RPG races are prone to drueling and that humans.....not so much unless it's a 4-star meal or a really hot Human or Elven chick.

I thought it taught him that he doesn't want miniature wargamers as customers.lol Unlike his RPG fanbase we demand more and aren't content to wait years for product.

I don't remember who said it but Kevin said that the RRT backers are mean.

Anyone who visits the palladium forums more often know what I missed in this latest drama?

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145272

It seems like a disgruntled and apparently unpaid freelancer was scrubbed away ala the Coffin rant.

Also, has anyone here ordered and gotten a robotech BF case? If you've assembled the minis, do they fit? It seems like there may be some issues with the claim that it'll fit all the battlecry minis.

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=146492

Joyboozer wrote:
How have you dealt with all the extra mouth moisture receiving your package produced?

In all honesty, I am spraying it about while making choom-choom noises. If they do an Invid kickstarter, I'll pledge.

 Cypher-xv wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:
Maybe this whole experience taught him that only Goblins, Wolfen and some of the other RPG races are prone to drueling and that humans.....not so much unless it's a 4-star meal or a really hot Human or Elven chick.

I thought it taught him that he doesn't want miniature wargamers as customers.lol Unlike his RPG fanbase we demand more and aren't content to wait years for product.

I don't remember who said it but Kevin said that the RRT backers are mean.

We are, we want something tangible and not just some book to make things up over. You can't go Pew Pew with a book!


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Well, Ok, when I was a kid I pretended to be a pilot and go Pew Pew with this cover.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Yg%2BCxXZML._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

I'm in for two showdowns plus extras and I got my shipping notice yesterday evening. So, I'm starting to get excited again.

 warboss wrote:
Anyone who visits the palladium forums more often know what I missed in this latest drama?

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145272

It seems like a disgruntled and apparently unpaid freelancer was scrubbed away ala the Coffin rant.

I'm not 100% clear on what went down, but apparently some freelancer feels that some of his stuff ended up in the Rifter when he wasn't (fully?) reimbursed for his work. Seems to believe that PB owes him $150, and went on a tear posting short shots at PB in dozens of threads all over the place, calling them Liars and saying they owed him and whatnot. Apparently he also went to their Facebook page and went on a tear there as well.

Far as I know the posts have been 'hidden' (not gone, just can't be seen by most people) and the FB stuff deleted and he's been locked down on both.

The extremes have basically been presented as someone who is massively overreacting by some, to others who find that PB would even be in a situation where someone would be upset over a paltry sum that most of us here could probably pony up as individuals without breaking the bank, let alone a company, is a bad sign.

It's easy to assume the worst about PB, but as much of a tantrum as this individual seems to have had, frankly, I'm having a hard time not believing they might've (inadvertently or not) ripped off someone's material and failed to compensate them appropriately.

But that's just my general frustration speaking, and hence why I've tried to recognize that easy bias trap to fall into several times here.

 Forar wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Anyone who visits the palladium forums more often know what I missed in this latest drama?

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145272

It seems like a disgruntled and apparently unpaid freelancer was scrubbed away ala the Coffin rant.

I'm not 100% clear on what went down, but apparently some freelancer feels that some of his stuff ended up in the Rifter when he wasn't (fully?) reimbursed for his work. Seems to believe that PB owes him $150, and went on a tear posting short shots at PB in dozens of threads all over the place, calling them Liars and saying they owed him and whatnot. Apparently he also went to their Facebook page and went on a tear there as well.

Far as I know the posts have been 'hidden' (not gone, just can't be seen by most people) and the FB stuff deleted and he's been locked down on both.

The extremes have basically been presented as someone who is massively overreacting by some, to others who find that PB would even be in a situation where someone would be upset over a paltry sum that most of us here could probably pony up as individuals without breaking the bank, let alone a company, is a bad sign.

It's easy to assume the worst about PB, but as much of a tantrum as this individual seems to have had, frankly, I'm having a hard time not believing they might've (inadvertently or not) ripped off someone's material and failed to compensate them appropriately.

But that's just my general frustration speaking, and hence why I've tried to recognize that easy bias trap to fall into several times here.

Didn't catch it when it went down either but apparently the guy (and this is from 3rd party sources so take it with a grain of salt) complained he had tried to reach PB multiple times,multiple ways about the payment but was always brushed off or told it would be later or so on. This went on for quite a while and eventually the guy apparently decided that he probably wasn't going to get his money anymore so screw it and went around posting it in every PB thread, along with insults.

And yes, it was over payment for articles in RIFTERs, which PB DO say they'll pay for.

Update from the PB FB page.


((ALL USA backers will be shipped by Monday. Canada is next. We’ll be working Saturday and Sunday to get the USA rewards finished off and jump right into processing the Canadian backers’ rewards. By next Monday, Robotech® RPG Tactics™ should have shipped to ALL of our US Kickstarter backers and have started to ship to our Canadian backers. We hope to have all Canadian rewards on their way by the end of next week. There is an additional amount of paperwork in order to ship to Canada, so that may slow the process down a bit. As soon as they are done, we will start prepping and packaging overseas rewards.

Shipping Overseas Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Rewards

We will need to package them all, making sure each package satisfies the country’s shipping requirements (the maximum size in the EU is smaller than what is allowed in the USA, making things a little trickier), palletize them all by type, then put them on a ship and send them overseas to a central location for mailing throughout the European Union. A similar process will follow for Australia, which has a surprisingly large Robotech® fan base. It is our understanding that this method of shipping should reduce the end cost to the recipient. That said, the recipient will, of course, be responsible for any and all fees, taxes and duties their government may charge. What taxes, duties and fees MAY be applied is completely out of Palladium’s hands. Again, it is our understanding that this method of shipping will mitigate the cost to the recipient.))

Anyone else get a feeling this is building up to be both foreshadowing and plausible deniability?

Whelp, might get my stuff by the end of November after all.

Maybe.

 Forar wrote:
Anyone else get a feeling this is building up to be both foreshadowing and plausible deniability?

Whelp, might get my stuff by the end of November after all.

Maybe.

You think they'll do Canada like they've done the US backers? Smallest to largest?

Sorry to think about that, Forar.

I thought ROW wasn't going to have to pay VAT or any other charges? Yes Forar talk about foreshadowing.

So finally got my Showdown order.

Looking through the rules...anyone else massively disappointed with the Jotun and the YF-4? I paid extra to add them to my wave 2 order and now it turns out they're sidegrades from the Armored Valkyrie and the VF-1A w/ LRMs. The money would have been better spent on a VEF pack or Zentradai special weapons.

Also, the DF stats on everything seems a little low. Maybe they're expecting everybody to try and dodge everything. A Glaug can pretty much hit anything it wants on a 2+.

 Kendachi wrote:

You think they'll do Canada like they've done the US backers? Smallest to largest?

Sorry to think about that, Forar.

Oh, I absolutely expect that to be the case.

But with only around 200-300 or so Canadian backers, that difference should be more like a couple of days or a week rather than the month and a half it has been for US backers.

Hopefully they'll have accurate tracking with whomever is delivering this stuff. While not the biggest backer box out there, from what I'm reading it sounds like this'll be a good 80 pounds of stuff. dragging 50 or so pounds of it out to my friends should be interesting.

Anyone else feel like posts are being deleted from this thread? Ive made two posts now(one of them last night, the other earlier this week), neither of which are displaying, nor are the posts that I responded to showing up either. I know mods tend to remove off topic posts, but I dont believe theybwere technically off topic, qnd typically they make a statement about deleting them.

RogueRegault wrote:
So finally got my Showdown order.

Looking through the rules...anyone else massively disappointed with the Jotun and the YF-4? I paid extra to add them to my wave 2 order and now it turns out they're sidegrades from the Armored Valkyrie and the VF-1A w/ LRMs. The money would have been better spent on a VEF pack or Zentradai special weapons.

Also, the DF stats on everything seems a little low. Maybe they're expecting everybody to try and dodge everything. A Glaug can pretty much hit anything it wants on a 2+.

The yf-4 seems to be especially weak to me. The dual arm cannon are a downgrade from a GU-11 same damage and less range. I would think with all the extra thrusters the Super Valk would get a bonus. Oh well. Thanks for saving me money PB!

I guess now that I have rules I should go complaining in the rules thread.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Anyone else feel like posts are being deleted from this thread? Ive made two posts now(one of them last night, the other earlier this week), neither of which are displaying, nor are the posts that I responded to showing up either. I know mods tend to remove off topic posts, but I dont believe theybwere technically off topic, qnd typically they make a statement about deleting them.

If the MODs were annoyed/upset enough to delete on of your posts I'm sure there would have been a warning in thread for people to behave (or possible a private warning to you via PM),

so I think it's more likely you either posted in the wrong thread (easy enough to do if you've got multiple windows open?) or possibly didn't actually register a post at all (dropout on a phone?)

Edit:

You realise there is the general KS thread (this one) and a Robotech Rules discussion on (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/612122.page) in this forum, have a look in the other thread and you may find your posts in there?

no this is the only thread ivd been posting in re: kickstarter, and I was reasonably sure both posts went through as I distinctly recall reading them both at some point after posting them, but I suppose its irrelevant.

Whitedragon informed me earlier this week that our joint Showdown showed up at his place.

Our collective response was a resounding "Now that it's here, not sure if want".

Mouth watering!

It'll be interesting to see how my friends react to their 2 and 3 sets apiece.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
I thought ROW wasn't going to have to pay VAT or any other charges? Yes Forar talk about foreshadowing.

On the main kickstarter page it says this under international shipping-

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm?ref=nav_search
For those of you living in Europe, we have made an arrangement with a local vendor in the UK to ship your pledge rewards from there.

This means that as a European Backer you will not be required to pay any additional VAT or import duties on your pledge reward. All that is required is the flat rate shipping fee based on your highest pledge level.

If i get stung for customs charges i won't be happy......

Sorry mate, you've made a mistake, anything written by palladium that isn't followed by a copyright or trademark is just fiction.

And if they are packing and sending by boat looks like won't have my stuff till next year as well, which i expected anyway.

 manrogue wrote:
If i get stung for customs charges i won't be happy......

I won't be happy either. Actually, I'll be litigious.

 Albertorius wrote:

 manrogue wrote:
If i get stung for customs charges i won't be happy......

I won't be happy either. Actually, I'll be litigious.

And is ANYBODY surprised you would say that??? Bueller? Bueller?

I think you're confusing Albertorius for Asterios or whatever Rick's handle is around these parts.

 Mike1975 wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 manrogue wrote:
If i get stung for customs charges i won't be happy......

I won't be happy either. Actually, I'll be litigious.

And is ANYBODY surprised you would say that??? Bueller? Bueller?

Are you mistaking me for someone else, perhaps?

I'm that grumpy guy that writes a lot of posts over at the Heavy Gear thread, not the one that wants to sue PB. Or at least, not so far.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 manrogue wrote:
If i get stung for customs charges i won't be happy......

I won't be happy either. Actually, I'll be litigious.

And is ANYBODY surprised you would say that??? Bueller? Bueller?

Are you mistaking me for someone else, perhaps?

I'm that grumpy guy that writes a lot of posts over at the Heavy Gear thread, not the one that wants to sue PB. Or at least, not so far.

Sorry, your right I'm thinking Asterios. The constant lawsuit threats fries the brain.

I'm not one to throw stones on that topic, having made the same mistake a week or so ago myself.

Something of a reflexive response at this point.

 Mike1975 wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 manrogue wrote:
If i get stung for customs charges i won't be happy......

I won't be happy either. Actually, I'll be litigious.

And is ANYBODY surprised you would say that??? Bueller? Bueller?

Are you mistaking me for someone else, perhaps?

I'm that grumpy guy that writes a lot of posts over at the Heavy Gear thread, not the one that wants to sue PB. Or at least, not so far.

Sorry, your right I'm thinking Asterios. The constant lawsuit threats fries the brain.

No lawsuit talk here, in fact not much talk here, but on a side note I find it interesting how PB's wording on their KS front page says

This means that as a European Backer you will not be required to pay any additional VAT or import duties on your pledge reward.

which indicates no additional charges will be applied, but i'm curious why they did not say no VAT fees will be required, just no additional ones, which indicates some form of VAT fees will apply, just no new ones.

Oh hell we summoned him!

.... Hi Rick! :-D

 Forar wrote:
Oh hell we summoned him!

.... Hi Rick! :-D

fear my mediocre wrath.

Muwhahahahah......the power of summoning the Anti-Rainbow Farts Demons! Beware the Rainbow! Taste the Rainbow!


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 Mike1975 wrote:
Muwhahahahah......the power of summoning the Anti-Rainbow Farts Demons! Beware the Rainbow! Taste the Rainbow!


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Mike you ever hear from that guy who was assembling and painting your models for you?

Yeah, he's got some done and once he finishes them up he'll send me them and I'll send on some more to him. I send part of what is his order along with my stuff in parts. The box is big enough for part of his and mine to go to him and then big enough to pack up my painted stuff up so that it's protected on it's way back to me.

 Mike1975 wrote:
Yeah, he's got some done and once he finishes them up he'll send me them and I'll send on some more to him. I send part of what is his order along with my stuff in parts. The box is big enough for part of his and mine to go to him and then big enough to pack up my painted stuff up so that it's protected on it's way back to me.

any pictures?

I have some on my home laptop. I'll have the ones he assembled and a pic of them primed....I'll see what I can find.

 Mike1975 wrote:
I have some on my home laptop. I'll have the ones he assembled and a pic of them primed....I'll see what I can find.

cool on a good note I just found out I got 2 foldscopes on their way to me.

foldscopes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foldscope

?

yeah i'm one of the first 100 people it is being shipped to, its basically a microscope that is made from cardstock paper and folded up, it was designed by a guy named Prakesh out of Stamford and it was field tested in third world countries, it was designed for doctors and such to have easy portable microscopes that cost like .50 to make.

Very Cool

Shouldn't they be done shipping showdowns by now??

 Mike1975 wrote:
Very Cool

yes it is, it has so many real world applications for help in places and with people who cannot afford big heavy microscopes and such, and once assembled it fits right in your pocket and I can see these things becoming a big hit with field doctors and botanists and such.

Excellent cheap and useful in a large variety of applications, medical and otherwise. Not something you would always expect from an engineer.

 Spartan-Kun wrote:
Shouldn't they be done shipping showdowns by now??

Based on Wayne's estimate from last week (500-600 domestic boxes to go out) and their usual "shipping like demons" weekend?

Yes. If you haven't gotten your notification, hopefully it'll go out tonight. If you haven't heard anything by tomorrow, it might be worth calling them up to double check. Some people have complained about receiving their boxes without ever getting a notification.

I was wondering if that would happen [shipped with no notice), problem with that is, I don't live where j used to and I meed to arrange someone to be there to recievw it :/

PB did tell people to update their addresses numerous times. You could try calling and seeing if it was sent yet and if it is still possible to change the address.

Yesterday I spoke with my friend who went in on the kickstarter, and he said that he's received a shipping notice for his two boxes. So he should have them soon.

He's a complete novice when it comes to this sort of thing, so apparently he's been reading up a bit on both assembling and painting figures. He thinks he'll start with the VFs to get his feet wet.

Starting with the VFs is a bad idea. I would recommend the battlepods. The VFs are some of the more difficult models in the box.

Eumerin wrote:
Yesterday I spoke with my friend who went in on the kickstarter, and he said that he's received a shipping notice for his two boxes. So he should have them soon.

He's a complete novice when it comes to this sort of thing, so apparently he's been reading up a bit on both assembling and painting figures. He thinks he'll start with the VFs to get his feet wet.

A novice starting with the VF models is suicidal.


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good lord just got my Foldscope, and it is a fidgitty little thing, will have to fiddle with it later since assembly does not look easy.

Eumerin wrote:
Yesterday I spoke with my friend who went in on the kickstarter, and he said that he's received a shipping notice for his two boxes. So he should have them soon.

He's a complete novice when it comes to this sort of thing, so apparently he's been reading up a bit on both assembling and painting figures. He thinks he'll start with the VFs to get his feet wet.

The regults are much, much easier. The VEritechs are much more involved, although the fighter is probably the easiest configuration. Also, make sure he is using a glue that works with ABS or there will be tears.

I only moved a month ago, and I still have everything sent Ro my old place and I just go get it cause if anything is left on the porch here it may very well get stolen.

Everything was supposed to be shipped by today right?

Perhaps just 98% shipped.

 TalonZahn wrote:
Everything was supposed to be shipped by today right?

Perhaps just 98% shipped.

All of the US stuff, and possibly a start on the Canadian packages, yes.

Ok, FINALLY finished laminating my cards plus a few totally fan-made designs we came up with on the Facebook page.

Not to insult mike/start a flame war, but does anyone actually care about his fan rules? I feel like that doesnt really have any place in this thread.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Not to insult mike/start a flame war, but does anyone actually care about his fan rules? I feel like that doesnt really have any place in this thread.

Actually Chaos some people do care about his stuff since it is miles better then what PB gave us.

as it goes wish I had his game cards over PB's craptastic cards they gave us, and Mikes rules were a little more rounder then what PB gave us.

Just got mu shipping notice!!

Asterios wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Not to insult mike/start a flame war, but does anyone actually care about his fan rules? I feel like that doesnt really have any place in this thread.

Actually Chaos some people do care about his stuff since it is miles better then what PB gave us.

as it goes wish I had his game cards over PB's craptastic cards they gave us, and Mikes rules were a little more rounder then what PB gave us.

Right, but this is a thread for palladiums kickstarter, as it stands there are already pages and pages worth of discussion in this thread about his rules, etc which for the longest time confused the gak out of me thinking they were the actual Palladium rules.

I need to learn to stop posting on my phone...the amount of typos is maddening...

What's the shipping time like? I got the notice, but it hasn't acutally shipped yet.

My notice arrived like a ninja in the middle of the night.

Thursday.

Providing Customs doesn't flag the UPS truck.

Wait they're using ups? I thought it was usps??

Good god the weight says 21.7 pounds O.o I didn't think I ordered that much...

 Spartan-Kun wrote:
Wait they're using ups? I thought it was usps??

Good god the weight says 21.7 pounds O.o I didn't think I ordered that much...

Well, their online shop says that the core box is 6.5 pounds itself, so 2-3 of them plus 2-3 BC add on bags and/or other add ons would presumably be that much.

Still, thats a lot of plastic lol

Yea, my listed package weight was 28.7 pounds.

Reckless is a lot of plastic.

Yay for us over achievers

Which means my box should be around 60 pounds, as a double reckless with a few add ons.

And at least two dudes in the states have around 120 pounds or more coming.

Though that's nothing compared to some of the Dwarven Forge kits that are coming to people. Literally hundreds of pounds of tiles.

But still, yeah, that's a crapload of plastic.

Holy [MOD EDIT - No filter 'workarounds' please - thanks! - Alpharius] O.O

 Forar wrote:
Which means my box should be around 60 pounds, as a double reckless with a few add ons.

And at least two dudes in the states have around 120 pounds or more coming.

My god.. the parts count...

chaos0xomega wrote:

Asterios wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Not to insult mike/start a flame war, but does anyone actually care about his fan rules? I feel like that doesnt really have any place in this thread.

Actually Chaos some people do care about his stuff since it is miles better then what PB gave us.

as it goes wish I had his game cards over PB's craptastic cards they gave us, and Mikes rules were a little more rounder then what PB gave us.

Right, but this is a thread for palladiums kickstarter, as it stands there are already pages and pages worth of discussion in this thread about his rules, etc which for the longest time confused the gak out of me thinking they were the actual Palladium rules.

and if you read the Palladium rules you would wish his rules were the official ones. and if you saw the official cards you would wish his were the official ones instead.


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 warboss wrote:

 Forar wrote:
Which means my box should be around 60 pounds, as a double reckless with a few add ons.

And at least two dudes in the states have around 120 pounds or more coming.

My god.. the parts count...

I've only looked at one of the battle cry's sitting in my closet and that's a lot of parts so I imagine if I looked at a reckless worth of parts it would be downright ugly.

If you used just PB's Cards you would have something like the first pic.

Mine are like the rest. So They are also a WIP and can be updated and modified readily. They also have the stats on the same cards so you don't have to swap back and forth and are also all the same size. It's a matter of personal preference. I winced personally when I saw their cards and realized how they were laid out. So I continued on and made my own.

If you like them...cool.....if not....that's fine.....like I said it is simply a matter of personal preference.

Yeah, I may print out yours, Mike. They're much easier to read than PBs.

So I received my order in the mail last week. I got Showdown. Was everything sent to me or is some of Showdown in in Wave 2-5?

 Davespil wrote:
So I received my order in the mail last week. I got Showdown. Was everything sent to me or is some of Showdown in in Wave 2-5?

Wave 2 will have more goodies

A full Battle Cry is 97 figures (was 96 and then they added the extra Battloid to the core box).

Wave One of a BC is 70 of those 97.

So you have at least 54 more figures coming, plus any wave two add ons (if you snagged some).

Having recieved my package last Friday, I can now comment on some of the miniatures. So far I've assembled a few battle pods, a fighter and two battleoids. It's been a bit of a mixed bag unfortunately. The vertitechs have been the greatest disappointment so far. I was really hoping that PB would really make an effort to make the iconic mecha of the series (and therefore the most visible individual mecha) at least somewhat user friendly.

The fighter was a pain to put together, mostly because the wings refused to remain straight while drying. It would have been much easier to have a long post between the two wings that could sandwich into the split fuselage rather then the tiny little 1mm tabs on each wing. It does look pretty good when finished though. I'd give it a 6/10.

The real problem mini so far has been the battleoid. The arms are a complete mess (there are no directions on which piece matches with what), the legs have terrible seams and the posts connecting the legs to the abdomen do not fit well in the holes. I eventually just went with pinning all of the arm and leg connections, so the figures would stand up straight. I'd rate this one about a 2/10.

The Zentrati pods are quite nice and I can't say anything bad about them (not even the limited leg selection bothers me : ) 9/10

Next up will be some guardians (which I'm not really looking forward to) and a glaug (which I am). I'm going to try to get some starter forces finished first, so I can try out some of the intro scenarios.

I think Guardians may be the worst. Fiddly wings, leg seams and arm tabs that are worse than useless. I don't believe anyone ever actually test-fitted the prototype before they put it into production.

Also put together the two Spartans. Took about an hour and 15 minutes. I had tro cut off all the tabs in the lower legs and on the gun stocks to make them fit. Other than that, they were easier to assemble than the Veritechs. Heads up, though, one set of hips and legs are in a running pose and the other is not; they do not mix well. The Spartans are decent, but definitely not great.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I think Guardians may be the worst. Fiddly wings, leg seams and arm tabs that are worse than useless. I don't believe anyone ever actually test-fitted the prototype before they put it into production.

Also put together the two Spartans. Took about an hour and 15 minutes. I had tro cut off all the tabs in the lower legs and on the gun stocks to make them fit. Other than that, they were easier to assemble than the Veritechs. Heads up, though, one set of hips and legs are in a running pose and the other is not; they do not mix well. The Spartans are decent, but definitely not great.

According to palladium's updates when they got the 3d prototypes that were going off of the 98% done finalized sprues, they had to build some of the models multiple times which was one of the excuses they used to hand wave off the huge seams and how crappy the models looked back in December. Of course, that didn't stop them from giving their seal of approval to 34 part destroids and hugely complicated veritechs despite them being so difficult to assemble that the folks who were overseeing every step of the project couldn't assemble them correctly.

It's a total head-scratcher. The Zentraedi kits all fit well and seem polished. I love them. The RDF kits all have a different design philosophy regarding joins and large pieces, and that approach is heavily flawed. I suppose the veritech fighter isn't too bad compared to the other RDF units, just tricky because it's tiny.

On a somewhat related note, is anyone else having trouble keeping the glue on the tiny attachment points? I'm going to have to call my force Fingerprint Squadron.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
It's a total head-scratcher. The Zentraedi kits all fit well and seem polished. I love them. The RDF kits all have a different design philosophy regarding joins and large pieces, and that approach is heavily flawed. I suppose the veritech fighter isn't too bad compared to the other RDF units, just tricky because it's tiny.

On a somewhat related note, is anyone else having trouble keeping the glue on the tiny attachment points? I'm going to have to call my force Fingerprint Squadron.

that's why I posted awhile back on the KS forums that the Zentraedi sprues look like they were done by an entirely different company as the one that did the UEDF sprues.

At least if you ever have your army stolen, it should be easy to determine the true owner. There was a ton of speculation on the difference between the zent and RDF stuff with some people claiming they were designed by two different teams. I don't think it was based on any solid info though but rather gut feelings like yours based on looking at the two forces and seeing a different style/touch on each.

No no no, you don't understand. These are designs from the 80's that weren't created with making miniatures in mind.

...

I seriously couldn't type that and keep a straight face at the same time.

Holy hell is that a stupid argument.

 Forar wrote:
No no no, you don't understand. These are designs from the 80's that weren't created with making miniatures in mind.

...

I seriously couldn't type that and keep a straight face at the same time.

Holy hell is that a stupid argument.

I'm just glad that both the Axis and the Allies had the forethought to make their designs so compatible with 3d modelling back in the 1930's and 40's. There sure alot of good plastic kits of those old designs thanks to some good old fashioned vacuum tube and slide rule 3d modelling!

 Forar wrote:
No no no, you don't understand. These are designs from the 80's that weren't created with making miniatures in mind.

For the RDF, this might as well be true.

 warboss wrote:
At least if you ever have your army stolen, it should be easy to determine the true owner. There was a ton of speculation on the difference between the zent and RDF stuff with some people claiming they were designed by two different teams. I don't think it was based on any solid info though but rather gut feelings like yours based on looking at the two forces and seeing a different style/touch on each.

the problem is slight differences can be expected even from the same company but these designs are like black and white their differences are 2 whole different styles, and judging by ND's previous work the Zentraedi stuff looks like their work, while the other stuff looks like a miniaturized version of the old Robotech/Macross models.

another interesting factor is the sprue centers, the UEDF has the same empty circle of the old models, while the Zentraedi stuff does not.

I think that the core issue with the RDF stuff is that they wanted to make replicas of the old models and then just shrink them down, the part they overlooked is that a lot of those old models weren't all that accurate in how they paired up with the line art from the shows. (the battloid chest and abdominal nose cone seem to be really wonky to me) Between industry advances and just paying a bit more attention to details they could have made a better looking product. What they did is "ok" and is a decent deal if you got in on the KS and your concern was inexpensive stuff, but the quality is a bit meh when they could have done so much better with the RDF stuff. I can go get plastic robots from a vending machine for 50 cents, and if all I expect is cheap robot mans I'd be equally happy with pretty much anything, which is where a lot of the KS support is at, but for people who were hoping for a bit more of a standard quality I think the RDF stuff fell a bit short.

The Zentraedi stuff looks good and IMO looks like it was handled by an entirely different sculptor. The RDF stuff either had a different sculptor or it was picked apart by the committee of overseers that have zero experience with models. (PB, HG) They wanted things to mirror the old kits as close as possible and that's what they got, to the hilt. But IMO 1980's models pretty much belong back in the 1980's. They needed somebody on their team with experience in how things translate on the table and how to get the mix between scale/durabilty/design right, which is what ND was supposed to bring, but they appear to have been largely disregarded by the command chain which was satisfied with "98% good enough re-scaled 80's model kits" and not delivering wargaming models. (as they continually fail to understand that war gaming is not just "small scale models")

I've had the chance to look the stuff over and it's not garbage, but looking past the low KS pricing it leaves a lot to be desired with the RDF models which is a bit sad considering those models were the primary interests from the bulk of their audience. I think that once these hit shelves at standard retail pricing there's a lot of people who will balk while looking at the game as the appeal of inexpensive minis isn't going to be there which is what the KS largely hinged on. The RRT KS brought a slew of minis for a decent price, with a subjective quality, at retail I don't think it'll have nearly the same strength.

I don't see it having a long shelf life once the shiny and nostalgia influences wears off, a game limited to two factions, high models counts that isn't cheap at a retail level. Huge numbers of parts for models of a quality that don't really reflect the need for so many pieces. They've fumbled a lot with their backer community and I don't have much hope for them trying to organize an effective player base as they've repeatedly shown they really aren't in their element when it comes to wargames. It sounds like their plans for the Rifts miniatures game was dumped after all the difficulties they've run into RRT so I wouldn't expect them to keep this on anything beyond life support once it's released to retailers.

I've talked to a few local people that have backed the KS and now that the stuff has finally arrived none of them are overly excited about the game. Typical response has been "sigh, I think I may keep a few models and the majority will end up on ebay". That's not the type of response you want when a game releases and is supposed to be new and hot, release is when player interests should be at a raging peak. The response should be people going oh man this kicks so much ass I can't wait to be gaming with all my friends, not meh... it's ok.

The real winners are the Battletech players at least got a new influx of unseens they can use as RRT launches and then dries up.

Jon I agree with you, this game left no room for supporting it with new minis for the Macross version, and I don't see PB supporting the game in any capacity, especially after they ran the game in the RPG section at the last GenCon.

Of course what I just said will be seen as hating by the crowd of PB white knights and they will portray me as just being an a-hole because I don't like Kevin. All personal dislike aside, I still really, really, really love Robotech/Macross if I didn't I wouldn't have pushed so hard to help make a Robotech miniatures game into a reality. I will never stop loving robots or robot games, and watching Robotech as a kid was the foundation of where all of that comes from so I'll always be a fan.

I've done nothing but dream about having a Robotech game for over 30 years and I want to see it succeed more then just about anyone out there but at the same time I can see that there's a lot of bad decisions being made with RRT and I can see how it'll likely impact the long term viability for the game and it doesn't look very good unless they do a very strong change in their course. Given how slowly they've been to change or address issues with their KS I don't think they are capable of it. It'd be nice to see that proven wrong as I'd very much like to see the game be something beyond a one shot release, but that's what it's looking to be IMO.

If they have the team who sculpted the Zentraedi take on the Invid, that could really do a lot to improve interest in the game. A third faction, and arguably the most visually distinct range in the series, would be a great way to keep it fresh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 paulson games wrote:
I think that the core issue with the RDF stuff is that they wanted to make replicas of the old models and then just shrink them down,

I just have to mention that I remember putting together some Robotech model kits as a young child, and I think they nailed it. What I remember the most are the tears.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Forar wrote:
No no no, you don't understand. These are designs from the 80's that weren't created with making miniatures in mind.

For the RDF, this might as well be true.

Yeah, because japanese mecha series don't have attached toys and plamo deals since forever ^_^

I always found the argument of Destroids being copies of older models interesting to say the least since if you have to make a new miniature with the exact same or close to the exact same frame and likeness as the old one there are only so many things you can change.

If I was going to make a bike that looks exactly like a bike from 20 years ago there is only so much I can do. I can change the materials and upgrade the brakes and such but the basic design and manufacturing processes and methodology are unlikely to have changed that much as to warrant a completely new parts workup.

I don't think that's necessarily true at all.

There are people that recreate old items using old design/manufacturing techniques intentionally, but someone could totally make a Sony Walkman these days without being forced to dust off 30 year old machines (or recreate the process exactly using the same techniques/molds/etc on newer machines).

The figures boil down to geometric shapes. They aren't non-euclidean objects from C'thulhu's darkest dreams (long may he slumber).

Choices of pose or some of the 'mouth watering detail' can affect overhang and the need to make hard calls on how to ratify that, but at the end of the day, it's not like this is some sort of moon mission equivalent.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
If they have the team who sculpted the Zentraedi take on the Invid, that could really do a lot to improve interest in the game. A third faction, and arguably the most visually distinct range in the series, would be a great way to keep it fresh.

Yes, and no...

While Invid would look great, and I'd love to see them, the biggest ones would probably only be about half the size of a VF. You think the bits are fiddly right now...?

^^;;

Invid are extremely simple models. They would on be fiddle bits if PB decided to split every piece in half.

 Swabby wrote:
Invid are extremely simple models. They would on be fiddle bits if PB decided to split every piece in half.

Even if modeled at 6mm scale like the Macross minis, the smallest invid would still be larger than a veritech head. Therefore, they will be split into at least a half dozen parts with seams running down their tiny crab claws and the "eye" being a separate piece that you have to clip, clean, and glue to the body.

 warboss wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
Invid are extremely simple models. They would on be fiddle bits if PB decided to split every piece in half.

Even if modeled at 6mm scale like the Macross minis, the smallest invid would still be larger than a veritech head. Therefore, they will be split into at least a half dozen parts with seams running down their tiny crab claws and the "eye" being a separate piece that you have to clip, clean, and glue to the body.

And don't forget - each claw "tip" will need to be glued on separately.

Eumerin wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
Invid are extremely simple models. They would on be fiddle bits if PB decided to split every piece in half.

Even if modeled at 6mm scale like the Macross minis, the smallest invid would still be larger than a veritech head. Therefore, they will be split into at least a half dozen parts with seams running down their tiny crab claws and the "eye" being a separate piece that you have to clip, clean, and glue to the body.

And don't forget - each claw "tip" will need to be glued on separately.

also each piece will have 3-4 sprue connection points.

Got my Reckless today.

That is a mountain of stuff and should keep me busy for a year or two.

 TalonZahn wrote:
Got my Reckless today.

That is a mountain of stuff and should keep me busy for a year or two.

or 3 or 4

Asterios wrote:

 TalonZahn wrote:
Got my Reckless today.

That is a mountain of stuff and should keep me busy for a year or two.

or 3 or 4

Well, it should be about enough time to cover them shipping Wave 2,

Then we can sit around and reminisce about that RRT KS from a decade ago.

 TalonZahn wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 TalonZahn wrote:
Got my Reckless today.

That is a mountain of stuff and should keep me busy for a year or two.

or 3 or 4

Well, it should be about enough time to cover them shipping Wave 2,

Then we can sit around and reminisce about that RRT KS from a decade ago.

well my RRT stuff went in the closet since have much better gaming miniatures to deal with since got in a batch of 40K stuff to assemble which should keep me busy for a bit.

Is this game 1/144 scale?

Or...something else?

 Alpharius wrote:
Is this game 1/144 scale?

Or...something else?

1/285 scale

Asterios wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Is this game 1/144 scale?

Or...something else?

1/285 scale

aka micro-armor

That's also known as 6mm, right?

 Alpharius wrote:
That's also known as 6mm, right?

yes.

Yup... same as battletech supposedly.

 warboss wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
Invid are extremely simple models. They would on be fiddle bits if PB decided to split every piece in half.

Even if modeled at 6mm scale like the Macross minis, the smallest invid would still be larger than a veritech head. Therefore, they will be split into at least a half dozen parts with seams running down their tiny crab claws and the "eye" being a separate piece that you have to clip, clean, and glue to the body.

Wait, are the RDF supposed to be 6mm scale? There is no way a 6mm figure could fit in the cockpit.

And I would totally be okay with them changing the scale for Invid.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
Invid are extremely simple models. They would on be fiddle bits if PB decided to split every piece in half.

Even if modeled at 6mm scale like the Macross minis, the smallest invid would still be larger than a veritech head. Therefore, they will be split into at least a half dozen parts with seams running down their tiny crab claws and the "eye" being a separate piece that you have to clip, clean, and glue to the body.

Wait, are the RDF supposed to be 6mm scale? There is no way a 6mm figure could fit in the cockpit.

And I would totally be okay with them changing the scale for Invid.

that's what they say, as to the invid at 6mm they gonna be tiny.

Well...

According to Wikipedia (used that source because I'm lazy and didn't want to spend too much time looking), a VF is 41.6 feet tall in battloid mode. At 1/285 scale, that comes out to 1-3/4" tall.

Does that sound about right?

Eumerin wrote:
Well...

According to Wikipedia (used that source because I'm lazy and didn't want to spend too much time looking), a VF is 41.6 feet tall in battloid mode. At 1/285 scale, that comes out to 1-3/4" tall.

Does that sound about right?

ayup,

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
Invid are extremely simple models. They would on be fiddle bits if PB decided to split every piece in half.

Even if modeled at 6mm scale like the Macross minis, the smallest invid would still be larger than a veritech head. Therefore, they will be split into at least a half dozen parts with seams running down their tiny crab claws and the "eye" being a separate piece that you have to clip, clean, and glue to the body.

Wait, are the RDF supposed to be 6mm scale? There is no way a 6mm figure could fit in the cockpit.

And I would totally be okay with them changing the scale for Invid.

They say that 1/285 is the official scale for RRPGT. 6mm is the conversion to metric for that scale. I haven't checked in any case myself as I don't think I even have any 6mm infantry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1:285_scale

Also keep in mind that while the official size might be 41.6 feet tall, the artwork might not match up to that.

But the real issue will probably be if they get releases for the subsequent series. The hovertanks and Alphas were both significantly shorter than than the VFs. Multi-generational fights would be very interesting, as the Regaults would tower over everything else.

Stray thought - Cyclops Recon Craft versus Invid... Goliath vs the Liliputians.

Eumerin wrote:
Also keep in mind that while the official size might be 41.6 feet tall, the artwork might not match up to that.

But the real issue will probably be if they get releases for the subsequent series. The hovertanks and Alphas were both significantly shorter than than the VFs. Multi-generational fights would be very interesting, as the Regaults would tower over everything else.

Stray thought - Cyclops Recon Craft versus Invid... Goliath vs the Liliputians.

better yet a M.A.C. II versus an invid scout (about 10mm high in 1/285 scale)

Scales


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not perfect but as exact as I could guess from all the sources

Asterios wrote:

Eumerin wrote:
Also keep in mind that while the official size might be 41.6 feet tall, the artwork might not match up to that.

But the real issue will probably be if they get releases for the subsequent series. The hovertanks and Alphas were both significantly shorter than than the VFs. Multi-generational fights would be very interesting, as the Regaults would tower over everything else.

Stray thought - Cyclops Recon Craft versus Invid... Goliath vs the Liliputians.

better yet a M.A.C. II versus an invid scout (about 10mm high in 1/285 scale)

I think the Cyclops is bigger than the MAC II.

In fact, it's probably the largest thing that might conceivably make it into the game - aside from, perhaps, a Horizont Drop Ship terrain piece.

Maybe the Bioroid Transport or the Zen Transport

 Mike1975 wrote:
Maybe the Bioroid Transport or the Zen Transport

well if they do it i'm sure they will have the Bioroid sleds, but doubt anything bigger like the transport ships.

A Horizont is 198 feet long, which puts it at just over four times the length of a VF. That'd make a nice objective to fight over.

Not sure on the others.


And after looking over the size, I suspect that we won't be seeing the Quell-Quallie (i.e. Cyclops Recon Vehicle) anytime soon. It's apparently a little over 400 feet (roughly 125m) long, which would mean that it's over 9 VFs in length.

Eumerin wrote:
A Horizont is 198 feet long, which puts it at just over four times the length of a VF. That'd make a nice objective to fight over.

Not sure on the others.


And after looking over the size, I suspect that we won't be seeing the Quell-Quallie (i.e. Cyclops Recon Vehicle) anytime soon. It's apparently a little over 400 feet (roughly 125m) long, which would mean that it's over 9 VFs in length.

the Horizont would be about 8" long give or take few mm and the Cyclops would be about 16" long give or take a few mm.

 Albertorius wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Forar wrote:
No no no, you don't understand. These are designs from the 80's that weren't created with making miniatures in mind.

For the RDF, this might as well be true.

Yeah, because japanese mecha series don't have attached toys and plamo deals since forever ^_^

I don't get what you mean by this. My criticism is that the RDF minis are designed with the same techniques and flaws you would find in an 80's kit, only shrunken down. Many parts are split for no reason, designed to attach with pins and holes, leaving the interior hollow. Wings could easily have been part of the top fuselage, for example. Everything about the RDF kits speaks to an unfamiliarity with wargaming miniatures and total cluelessness regarding how models in this scale are assembled. They might not have literally scaled-down an 80's kit, but they were clearly in an (larger scaled) 80's kit mindset when they designed the minis.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asterios wrote:

well my RRT stuff went in the closet since have much better gaming miniatures to deal with since got in a batch of 40K stuff to assemble which should keep me busy for a bit.

I suggest putting together some of the Zentraedi kits at least. They are fun and quick to assemble and they look good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
Is this game 1/144 scale?

Or...something else?

It's scaled like a serpent. A sinuous, treacherous serpent.

I honestly hope the scale stays the same for the other sagas (assuming they even get made).

It is totally going to blow it for me if I end up going head to head against a cyclone that is like half the size of my tomahawk in a tournament.

Well, if that happens, you can always proxy the cyclones with mummified ants.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How do you propose they deal with the scale issue? Keep in mind that the VEritechs are probably already too small for most gamers.

 Swabby wrote:
I honestly hope the scale stays the same for the other sagas (assuming they even get made).

It is totally going to blow it for me if I end up going head to head against a cyclone that is like half the size of my tomahawk in a tournament.

Personally, I think it would blow even more to face a bunch of invid scouts the size of a VF-1's foot in a game even though that would be accurate in-universe. We've never seen the three eras fighting together because they were obviously from three completely unrelated shows cobbled together for $$$ reasons. That said, the cyclone doesn't have to be that big. I'd be fine with a 1/144 scale for the other two eras where the alphas are about 2/3 to 3/4 the size of a valkyrie. You still get the overall feeling that the macross mecha are bigger but you don't have the other two eras at crotch height for all the macross stuff.

I dunno man battletech has been doing fine with battle armor at 1/285th for a long time. I don't see how it is too small.

Is Battletech doing fine?

Maybe Robotech should aspire to be something more than second-rate Battletech.

You know what? No, I won't let this sit. Swabby, you really don't see the problem with minis so small no one can enjoy them as minis? Do you really find yourself overwhelmed by the sumptuous size and utility of the RTT Veritechs? You're talking about an army of units the size of a space marine's bolter or smaller. How is that fun?

Same way as Epic used to be fun?

I don't recall people moaning about how small the minis were for that, and they were also 6mm, weren't they?

OK, I didn't play the game, but I did collect some of the minis and paint them pretty well. Shame I've not got them any more as I did a painting demonstration at one point where I painted up a base of 5 in under half an hour with a good amount of detail.

 Conrad Turner wrote:
Same way as Epic used to be fun?

I don't recall people moaning about how small the minis were for that, and they were also 6mm, weren't they?

OK, I didn't play the game, but I did collect some of the minis and paint them pretty well. Shame I've not got them any more as I did a painting demonstration at one point where I painted up a base of 5 in under half an hour with a good amount of detail.

I'm pretty sure BobtheInquisitor mis-typed his complaint. It's not the size of the models, it's the size of the parts on those models.

I stopped for a second, got up, walked over the Epic models I have in my cabinet, and counted pieces. Most of the vehicles (the plastic land raiders, rhinos, etc) were one piece models. The individual infantry models were essentially single piece models as well. By the time I got into models requiring assembly, I was at the stuff like the titans, and those are still less than a dozen pieces (including the weapons).

In comparison, the Robotech models have parts numbers rivaling and surpassing Malifaux plastic.

I thought he was talking about how big things like the Cyclone and invid would be IF PB actually gets to do more generations of the game. I.E. how big will a bike be in the same scale as the VT's in Wave 1? Basically a person in a suit that transforms into a motorcycle, or a pilot model, would need to be a single part.

Personally, given the comments here, I doubt it'll make much difference as I don't see anything above the items within this KS being made before we are all too old and crotchetty - if they make them at all with the comments of people e-baying their stuff as soon as they get it and not wanting anything to do with PB again after this.

the only way this would work for other eras is if they do individual scales for all eras, cause lets face it, while 40K epic was awesome it wasn't that awesome, that's why GW gave up on it, and when you get into the invid you will have mecha and invid standing about under 1/2 an inch in height, seriously most of the mecha will be like that, so it would not be fun at that level, furthermore PB would complicate matters by making a 10mm item into 8-10 parts or more.

You guys have obviously not played enough 6mm games to appreciate the scale. 6mm is extremely enjoyable on the tabletop and it can be a joy to paint.

 Swabby wrote:
You guys have obviously not played enough 6mm games to appreciate the scale. 6mm is extremely enjoyable on the tabletop and it can be a joy to paint.

not saying it isn't, but as with any 6mm game you have other size options, unlike Robotech games that's it, also you miss the point, if PB can find a way to separate a 6mm figure into a dozen or so pieces for that awesome design quality, they will.

Battletech has other size options?

 Swabby wrote:
Battletech has other size options?

battletech does not make their mechs into dozens of pieces.

I'm a minis noob, but as I've said before, the idea of trying to put detail on something ~7mm tall is not one I relish.

Some of y'all might be able to get joints and plating highlighted.

I'm pretty sure I'd be happy if the faceplate on mine didn't cover the entire head. And half the torso.

And since Cyclones are among my favourite mechs in the series, I'm kind of hoping I can avoid that being an issue.

Asterios wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
Battletech has other size options?

battletech does not make their mechs into dozens of pieces.

Not as many but many of the newer metal ones can have 12+ pieces. Especially the celestials.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated the files and added some more fan-made units just for fun.

 Mike1975 wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
Battletech has other size options?

battletech does not make their mechs into dozens of pieces.

Not as many but many of the newer metal ones can have 12+ pieces. Especially the celestials.

12 pieces? Pfft, that's nothing. The zentraedi recon pod has more than that parts count in just electronic and antenna bits and that doesn't even include the actual body and limbs!

 warboss wrote:
Personally, I think it would blow even more to face a bunch of invid scouts the size of a VF-1's foot in a game even though that would be accurate in-universe. We've never seen the three eras fighting together because they were obviously from three completely unrelated shows cobbled together for $$$ reasons.

Not entirely true. The Sentinels featured equipment from both SDC Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeada. Only three episodes were created before it was cancelled... but those three episodes do exist with Bioroids fighting Invid, and Hovertanks shown alongside Legios fighters.

However, that's not particularly a big deal. The Southern Cross and Mospeada mecha are similar in size. It's only the Macross stuff that's significantly out of scale.

by the way for those of you thinking of just buying the rule book, don't, you need the boxed game in order to have the complete rules for the game, if you do not buy the box game you will not have the complete rules and it is the only way to get the complete rules for the game.

Eumerin wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Personally, I think it would blow even more to face a bunch of invid scouts the size of a VF-1's foot in a game even though that would be accurate in-universe. We've never seen the three eras fighting together because they were obviously from three completely unrelated shows cobbled together for $$$ reasons.

Not entirely true. The Sentinels featured equipment from both SDC Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeada. Only three episodes were created before it was cancelled... but those three episodes do exist with Bioroids fighting Invid, and Hovertanks shown alongside Legios fighters.

However, that's not particularly a big deal. The Southern Cross and Mospeada mecha are similar in size. It's only the Macross stuff that's significantly out of scale.

True... I forgot about the sentinels. Yeah, Macross is definitely the outlier but it is also by far the most popular era so it has an importance greater than it's 1/3 of the series would indicate. It is and likely will continue to be the money maker even if they eventually get around to doing the other series. Making it look visually out of place, even if it is canon, is probably not a good idea. TBH, I wouldn't be opposed to the southern cross and mospeada stuff being more of a skirmish scale game with larger minis to account for the smaller mechs. I know that won't jive with the size purists here but the cyclones really are an important part of mospeada and having them 3 to a base or somesuch at 6mm doesn't really do them justice. You'd have to have the entire mospeada cyclone using cast together as one single special character at 6mm.

 warboss wrote:

Eumerin wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Personally, I think it would blow even more to face a bunch of invid scouts the size of a VF-1's foot in a game even though that would be accurate in-universe. We've never seen the three eras fighting together because they were obviously from three completely unrelated shows cobbled together for $$$ reasons.

Not entirely true. The Sentinels featured equipment from both SDC Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeada. Only three episodes were created before it was cancelled... but those three episodes do exist with Bioroids fighting Invid, and Hovertanks shown alongside Legios fighters.

However, that's not particularly a big deal. The Southern Cross and Mospeada mecha are similar in size. It's only the Macross stuff that's significantly out of scale.

True... I forgot about the sentinels. Yeah, Macross is definitely the outlier but it is also by far the most popular era so it has an importance greater than it's 1/3 of the series would indicate. It is and likely will continue to be the money maker even if they eventually get around to doing the other series. Making it look visually out of place, even if it is canon, is probably not a good idea. TBH, I wouldn't be opposed to the southern cross and mospeada stuff being more of a skirmish scale game with larger minis to account for the smaller mechs. I know that won't jive with the size purists here but the cyclones really are an important part of mospeada and having them 3 to a base or somesuch at 6mm doesn't really do them justice. You'd have to have the entire mospeada cyclone using cast together as one single special character at 6mm.

I think Masters and Mospeada should be done in 1/100 scale to give us decent size minis to play with.

Asterios wrote:
by the way for those of you thinking of just buying the rule book, don't, you need the boxed game in order to have the complete rules for the game, if you do not buy the box game you will not have the complete rules and it is the only way to get the complete rules for the game.

If you have the rulebook you still won't have minis, squadron cards, or the faction cards to play. Minis gets you Squadron cards since they come in the box and they you only need the Faction card. You can play just fine without the Faction rules though. I've done it numerous times.

Bad- Syntax has done some 3-D models of the Cyclones and some other stuff I think for later generations.

Asterios wrote:
Bad- Syntax has done some 3-D models of the Cyclones and some other stuff I think for later generations.

And they are small. Cyclones are like half an inch tall.

There's two issues that I see with 6-8mm tall cyclones, fiddly parts you think the current stuff is difficult to work with? There's a reason that epic scale models and battletech does all their infantry in single piece metal. Trying to build anything that has multiple parts at that size will be nightmarish as it's basically the height of a veritechs head but much thinner and more complex. If they are made as one piece models they will be extremely limited in pose.

The second issue is that when you look at the rpg side of Robotech cyclones are almost as strong and durable as first generation veritechs but are human sized. Their MDC rating is through the roof which will be absolutely stupid when trying to game with them on the same table as first gen stuff. In most 6mm games infantry is placed on a single base and has a much limited limited role, so they will either need to be made to opperate in groups or they will function independently and then you have lots of microscopic units running around capable of going toe to toe with valkyries and zentraedi units which really skews things.

Alphas are much smaller then veritechs both in terms of damage they can withstand and the amount of missile firepower that they bring in staggering, all of which is packed into an even smaller model then the current the RRT minis. So you have a huge downwards swing in the model scales while upping the model's power. It'd be like playing 40k and for them to make strong units like a dreadnought or terminators sized to be less then half the height of a squat model, they'd simply get lost on the table among the larger models.

Invid are pretty tiny and those would also be a royal pain in the ass to build as multipart models at 6mm scale, plus like the Zent stuff you will needs tons of them as they are a swarm faction.

I don't think that keeping the rules and scale the same across generations does any favors to make game play better and it'll likely make things much more difficult as the models will get tiny and be less numerous on the table. I wouldn't particuarly want to keep track of just two tiny cyclones on the table when they equate a veritech in power.

I think they'd best be served by doing Mospeada as either 15mm (1/160-1/200) scale or even 1/72 scale. The 1/72 scale stuff they currently make Alpha fighter kits for which wouldn't be too big for the table provide they are used sparringly like what goes on in the series. The problem with that scenario is that the lisc likely doesn't allow for them to make the stuff in scales that are compatible with models kits or toys, hence the "gaming pieces" BS tag.

 paulson games wrote:
There's two issues that I see with 6-8mm tall cyclones, fiddly parts you think the current stuff is difficult to work with? There's a reason that epic scale models and battletech does all their infantry in single piece metal. Trying to build anything that has multiple parts at that size will be nightmarish as it's basically the height of a veritechs head but much thinner and more complex. If they are made as one piece models they will be extremely limited in pose.

The second issue is that when you look at the rpg side of Robotech cyclones are almost as strong and durable as first generation veritechs but are human sized. Their MDC rating is through the roof which will be absolutely stupid when trying to game with them on the same table as first gen stuff. In most 6mm games infantry is placed on a single base and has a much limited limited role, so they will either need to be made to opperate in groups or they will function independently and then you have lots of microscopic units running around capable of going toe to toe with valkyries and zentraedi units which really skews things.

Alphas are much smaller then veritechs both in terms of damage they can withstand and the amount of missile firepower that they bring in staggering, all of which is packed into an even smaller model then the current the RRT minis. So you have a huge downwards swing in the model scales while upping the model's power.

Invid are pretty tiny and those would also be a royal pain in the ass to build as multipart models at 6mm scale, plus like the Zent stuff you will needs tons of them as they are a swarm faction.

I don't think that keeping the rules and scale the same across generations does any favors to make game play better and it'll likely make things much more difficult as the models will get tiny and be less numerous on the table. I wouldn't particuarly want to keep track of just two tiny cyclones on the table when they equate a veritech in power.

I think they'd best be served by doing Mospeada as either 15mm (1/160-1/200) scale or even 1/72 scale. The 1/72 scale stuff they currently make Alpha fighter kits for which wouldn't be too big for the table provide they are used sparringly like what goes on in the series. The problem with that scenario is that the lisc likely doesn't allow for them to make the stuff in scales that are compatible with models kits or toys, hence the "gaming pieces" BS tag.

I went 1/100 scale since it would make the Cyclones about 1" in size

Asterios wrote:
Bad- Syntax has done some 3-D models of the Cyclones and some other stuff I think for later generations.

That's fine for him, but it doesn't help anyone else unless he sells them or distributes the files. And if he does either of those he's just offered his butt up for corn-holing by HG's lawyers.


I've got 3d models for 28mm cyclones models and Invid which are great for me but it doesn't help anyone as I can't sell them or give away the files. Shrug.

 paulson games wrote:

Asterios wrote:
Bad- Syntax has done some 3-D models of the Cyclones and some other stuff I think for later generations.

That's fine for him, but it doesn't help anyone else unless he sells them or distributes the files. And if he does either of those he's just offered his butt up for corn-holing by HG's lawyers.


I've got 3d models for 28mm cyclones models and Invid which are great for me but it doesn't help anyone as I can't sell them or give away the files. Shrug.

yeah that's the sad thing I thought about doing up my own models for the game, but then realized i'm the only one who could use them, I could not sell them or even give them away so it would only do me any good and no one else.

 paulson games wrote:
There's two issues that I see with 6-8mm tall cyclones, fiddly parts you think the current stuff is difficult to work with? There's a reason that epic scale models and battletech does all their infantry in single piece metal. Trying to build anything that has multiple parts at that size will be nightmarish as it's basically the height of a veritechs head but much thinner and more complex.

Seconded.

One of the 15mm infantry figures that Battlefront released for Flames of War comes with an arm that needs to be glued on. Why this was done is one of the great mysteries of the universe, as every other Battlefront infantry figure that I've seen is one solid piece. But this one infantryman comes with a detached arm that needs to be glued on. And it's provoked much ire on my part aimed at the idiot who designed it that way. The figure is just too small to have parts that need to be glued on.

on a side note GW/Citadel did put out a multi piece Epic Space Marine, but it was some type of Con exclusive.

 paulson games wrote:
Trying to build anything that has multiple parts at that size will be nightmarish as it's basically the height of a veritechs head but much thinner and more complex. If they are made as one piece models they will be extremely limited in pose.

Palladium has already proven that they're ok with making things the size of veritech heads in multiple pieces. I think pretty much anything is possible with them but at least we're probably two years at best away from having to worry about it (1 year to finish wave 2 and then another year to get their ducks 98% finalized in line for the next KS... assuming they don't get sidetracked with a Rifts minis game line).

Asterios wrote:
on a side note GW/Citadel did put out a multi piece Epic Space Marine, but it was some type of Con exclusive.

PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!

 Alpharius wrote:

Asterios wrote:
on a side note GW/Citadel did put out a multi piece Epic Space Marine, but it was some type of Con exclusive.

PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!

well Forgeworld not Citadel but some auctions can be seen here:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=forgeworld+event+only+space+marine&_from=R40%7CR40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xforgeworld+event+only+epic+scale+space+marine.TRS0&_nkw=forgeworld+event+only+epic+scale+space+marine&_sacat=0

Terrain is going to look seriously stupid with all these mixed scales on the same table.

Honestly at that point why not just play with random model kits? I am not sure why you guys would even buy into a 6mm game if you didn't want a 6mm game.

I also agree that having a cylcone statted out to be as powerful as a veritech is going to appear absurd when the two are facing off. Quite frankly it is absurd.

 Swabby wrote:
I also agree that having a cylcone statted out to be as powerful as a veritech is going to appear absurd when the two are facing off. Quite frankly it is absurd.

It might get rewritten. I've mentioned the RPG's absurd MDC values before, and RPG Tactics appears to have at least acknowledged the issue. The values for the units in the miniatures game do not correspond to the values for the units in the RPG. Also, iirc the problem wasn't so much that the Cyclone and VF were roughly similar in MDC values. It was that the Cyclone had ridiculously heavy armor even compared to the Alpha Legios.

Asterios wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Asterios wrote:
on a side note GW/Citadel did put out a multi piece Epic Space Marine, but it was some type of Con exclusive.

PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!

well Forgeworld not Citadel but some auctions can be seen here:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=forgeworld+event+only+space+marine&_from=R40%7CR40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xforgeworld+event+only+epic+scale+space+marine.TRS0&_nkw=forgeworld+event+only+epic+scale+space+marine&_sacat=0

Well, I guess it did happen!

Crazy small glue time there!

Ironically, the conversation in another thread turned to multipart space marines at 6mm and a link was posted. Since a space marine in power armor is 8ft and roughly the same size as a cyclone, who wants 6mm multipart cyclones?!

I wouldn't want to attempt with that Space Marine, the single piece models were fiddly to begin with, that would be just plain ugly. can we say microscope anyone? but then again I did get a couple of foldscopes in the mail the other day.

I want single part cyclones at 6mm. Anything else would be stupid.

 Swabby wrote:
I want single part cyclones at 6mm. Anything else would be stupid.

We're talking about Palladium.

 warboss wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
I want single part cyclones at 6mm. Anything else would be stupid.

We're talking about Palladium.

whats wrong with 12 part Cyclones at 6mm ?

Everything?

Those pics make me realize how much I miss Space Marine/Titan Legion, and how dumb I was to sell it all off years ago...

It's kind of sad that its Robotech rather than Macross, as the successor lines of Macross variable fighters all keep to roughly the same size (The Messiah VF-25 is 15.6m to the Valkyrie's 12.85m). Vajra would be mostly identical to the Invid but in a larger size.


On a different note, I'm wondering if I can email Palladium and get my Experimental Battloids and YF-4s switched to Armored Valkyries and VF-1E/1D. The Jotun doesn't have the stats I'd expect for an Orguss clone and the YF-4 is strictly worse than the VF-1R.

Really hope that they keep the scale the same across the three eras.

That said, Palladium really needs to contract out any future infantry scale 6mm models to this guy.
http://www.onslaughtmini.com

The detail he can get on 6mm figures is ridiculous.

Well gamers Haven in Spokane Washington got a shipment of Robotech stuff in:

https://www.facebook.com/334826499574/photos/pb.334826499574.-2207520000.1416626939./10152937671909575/?type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Gamers-Haven/334826499574?sk=wall

Did anyone get any wave 1 add ons? If so, did they come in the retail box? I just got the basic pledge so I only got the big battlecry baggie and the core set of models.

yes WarBoss the add ons do come in boxes while the bonuses from Battlecry and above do not.

Any Canadians know what the duty amounts to on a showdown?

Update from PB on FB. I guess PB doesn't want to update their ks backers anymore.


"Overseas Kickstarter Backers: Only those of you overseas and outside the US and Canada remain. We will start packing up and prepping your rewards next week and for the next few weeks. You are important to us and we will keep you updated on our progress. Please Note: Overseas distributors and retailers have NOT been shipped product. So our Kickstarter backers in other countries should still get their rewards (and pre-orders) BEFORE they appear in stores outside North America. See a more complete explanation in the Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Update elsewhere.


Good News Part Five: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ – in stores throughout the United States in time for BLACK FRIDAY Sales. Since ALL of the rewards have shipped to our backers in the USA and Canada (the last two dozen Canadian orders shipping on Monday), we were able to ship Robotech® RPG Tactics™ to our North American distributors. That means most of them should be able to get RRT product into their retail accounts in time for the Black Friday sales next weekend. USA Note: The “in store” release date is Wednesday, November 26, 2014 in the USA, but some stores may wait till Black Friday. Canada Note: The “in store” release date in Canada is also Wednesday, November 26, 2014. However, we suspect that most Canadian retailers are not likely to have Robotech® RPG Tactics™ in stores until the week after the November 26 (early December). But we don’t know that; they may be in stores by the November 26 street date or that weekend. Watch for it."

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Update from PB on FB. I guess PB doesn't want to update their ks backers anymore.


"Overseas Kickstarter Backers: Only those of you overseas and outside the US and Canada remain. We will start packing up and prepping your rewards next week and for the next few weeks. You are important to us and we will keep you updated on our progress. Please Note: Overseas distributors and retailers have NOT been shipped product. So our Kickstarter backers in other countries should still get their rewards (and pre-orders) BEFORE they appear in stores outside North America. See a more complete explanation in the Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Update elsewhere.


Good News Part Five: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ – in stores throughout the United States in time for BLACK FRIDAY Sales. Since ALL of the rewards have shipped to our backers in the USA and Canada (the last two dozen Canadian orders shipping on Monday), we were able to ship Robotech® RPG Tactics™ to our North American distributors. That means most of them should be able to get RRT product into their retail accounts in time for the Black Friday sales next weekend. USA Note: The “in store” release date is Wednesday, November 26, 2014 in the USA, but some stores may wait till Black Friday. Canada Note: The “in store” release date in Canada is also Wednesday, November 26, 2014. However, we suspect that most Canadian retailers are not likely to have Robotech® RPG Tactics™ in stores until the week after the November 26 (early December). But we don’t know that; they may be in stores by the November 26 street date or that weekend. Watch for it."

hmm wonder how they can explain a US store already has this product available in its store already ?

They had retailer pledge levels during the KS. If a retailer pledged with the rest of us, they got it along with other pledgers.

 warboss wrote:
They had retailer pledge levels during the KS. If a retailer pledged with the rest of us, they got it along with other pledgers.

no they did not have a retailer pledge available, if they did a friend of mine who has a store would have gotten that. also doubt it would have been better then retailer prices since some places selling the main game box for less then we were charged.

On a totally different note; How does the paint guide actually work?

What are all the codes? Where are the paint color names? Another over-site I guess; not creating a key for us to read the paint guide.

Why am I not surprised it's for sale instores before ROW pledgers have theirs. . .

fething paladium.

The codes in the paint guide are hex codes (computer color codes), so unless you're painting your figures with your computer they're pretty pointless unfortunately.

 Duskland wrote:
The codes in the paint guide are hex codes (computer color codes), so unless you're painting your figures with your computer they're pretty pointless unfortunately.

Sounds about par for the course I'd say then.

 Swabby wrote:
Terrain is going to look seriously stupid with all these mixed scales on the same table.

So don't play with them on the same table. Or proxy them. At 6mm, even a space marine looks like a human-shaped blob. Might as well be a cyclone. Have fun with that.

Jeez, at 6mm, they're not even choking hazards anymore.

Honestly at that point why not just play with random model kits? I am not sure why you guys would even buy into a 6mm game if you didn't want a 6mm game.

I would and do, but model kits are not built to withstand the kind of usage gaming peices are (supposed to). Maybe I bought into the game (that happened to be 6mm) because I wanted a Robotech game (and they only made it in 6mm). How many backers do you think pledged based on the 6mm scale vs the brand?

Seriously, 6mm games aren't played with minis--they are played with stands of minis. They are essentially the tokens you get in Risk, but even tinier and sadder. I sure don't remember Robotech being about huge formations of troops marching in formation.

Would you rather see the game dead and buried than see the next two seasons released at a scale that (shudder) normal people could enjoy?

I also agree that having a cylcone statted out to be as powerful as a veritech is going to appear absurd when the two are facing off. Quite frankly it is absurd.

So, don't face them against each other. In fact, if they were different scales, then everyone who cared would avoid putting them on the same table.

 Sheep wrote:
Why am I not surprised it's for sale instores before ROW pledgers have theirs. . .

fething paladium.

Another broken promise. Absolutely not surprised. Either Palladium don't understand the global marketplace (and don't realize we have the ability to buy from the US), they don't care about their promises, or they compromised their principles for greed.

First, it was "backers will get theirs first". Then recently they quietly and unilaterally changed it to "backers will have theirs shipped first". Now, apparently, it's "backers will be shipped theirs first before retails in their country get it". Because noone could ever possibly have a package shipped over national borders. Should they have made the promise? Probably not. But they made it. Several times. And it's telling as a company, that they're so willing to just crap on statements made.

If I still had money on the line, I'd be fething furious. As it is, I'm still moderately irate.

Palladium Books should add the tagline, "re-evaluate your expectations".

Shifting goal posts for ROW, what a shock

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
Terrain is going to look seriously stupid with all these mixed scales on the same table.

Would you rather see the game dead and buried than see the next two seasons released at a scale that (shudder) normal people could enjoy?

what makes you think the game isn't already dead? so far from what I've seen and not just the negative reviews, but how the game was designed and being supported, the game is already dead, they cannot market it as a miniature game, but an RPG game so that's a knife wound, they have no way of continuing with expansions in the series since they brought out all their designs in the kickstarter so no support from new items, another knife wound, their price point is too pricey for what your getting, if you got in the KS then yeah you got a decent price, or if you buy the box game you got a decent price, but the add-ons are over priced, another knife wound. splitting of the rules between the rulebook and the cards, another knife wound and the list goes on, this game has received so many knife wounds its bleeding to death and its just a matter of time till it rolls over and dies.

This is NMI on the Facebook page

Ziur Y'Reffej Only a handful of Canadian orders havent gone out - those go out Monday. Oh no!!!
Overseas people will still be getting their rewards BEFORE their local retailers get theirs -- So where's the drama????


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only thing is that ROW will have before THEIR local retailers but not before US retailers. There is a difference. Some may think it enough and others will not but there it is.

So, rather than pack ROW orders, they packed retailers and pre orders, stay classy Kevin...

 Mike1975 wrote:
This is NMI on the Facebook page

Ziur Y'Reffej Only a handful of Canadian orders havent gone out - those go out Monday. Oh no!!!
Overseas people will still be getting their rewards BEFORE their local retailers get theirs -- So where's the drama????


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only thing is that ROW will have before THEIR local retailers but not before US retailers. There is a difference. Some may think it enough and others will not but there it is.

NMI is really clueless isn't he, also hes not helping PB with that post.

Asterios wrote:


what makes you think the game isn't already dead? so far from what I've seen and not just the negative reviews, but how the game was designed and being supported, the game is already dead, they cannot market it as a miniature game, but an RPG game so that's a knife wound, they have no way of continuing with expansions in the series since they brought out all their designs in the kickstarter so no support from new items, another knife wound, their price point is too pricey for what your getting, if you got in the KS then yeah you got a decent price, or if you buy the box game you got a decent price, but the add-ons are over priced, another knife wound. splitting of the rules between the rulebook and the cards, another knife wound and the list goes on, this game has received so many knife wounds its bleeding to death and its just a matter of time till it rolls over and dies.

I keep seeing this said, but battletech miniatures average over 12.00 per miniature. THe prices on Robotech are not out of line with that.

http://ironwindmetals.com/store/index.php?cPath=16_21

efarrer wrote:

Asterios wrote:


what makes you think the game isn't already dead? so far from what I've seen and not just the negative reviews, but how the game was designed and being supported, the game is already dead, they cannot market it as a miniature game, but an RPG game so that's a knife wound, they have no way of continuing with expansions in the series since they brought out all their designs in the kickstarter so no support from new items, another knife wound, their price point is too pricey for what your getting, if you got in the KS then yeah you got a decent price, or if you buy the box game you got a decent price, but the add-ons are over priced, another knife wound. splitting of the rules between the rulebook and the cards, another knife wound and the list goes on, this game has received so many knife wounds its bleeding to death and its just a matter of time till it rolls over and dies.

I keep seeing this said, but battletech miniatures average over 12.00 per miniature. THe prices on Robotech are not out of line with that.

http://ironwindmetals.com/store/index.php?cPath=16_21

Battletech = Metal

Robotech = Plastic

efarrer wrote:

Asterios wrote:


what makes you think the game isn't already dead? so far from what I've seen and not just the negative reviews, but how the game was designed and being supported, the game is already dead, they cannot market it as a miniature game, but an RPG game so that's a knife wound, they have no way of continuing with expansions in the series since they brought out all their designs in the kickstarter so no support from new items, another knife wound, their price point is too pricey for what your getting, if you got in the KS then yeah you got a decent price, or if you buy the box game you got a decent price, but the add-ons are over priced, another knife wound. splitting of the rules between the rulebook and the cards, another knife wound and the list goes on, this game has received so many knife wounds its bleeding to death and its just a matter of time till it rolls over and dies.

I keep seeing this said, but battletech miniatures average over 12.00 per miniature. THe prices on Robotech are not out of line with that.

http://ironwindmetals.com/store/index.php?cPath=16_21

The new Battletech plastic lance packs (which, being plastics, is what you should be comparing RRT minis with) are $19.95 for a 4-minis unit.

A Valkyrie wing from PB costs $36.95 and that's for 6 models that make 2 units.

Are you talking about the starters or are there new battle tech plastics?

think hes talking about the sets put out by Catalyst maybe?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are you talking about the starters or are there new battle tech plastics?

New plastics:

http://bg.battletech.com/news/news-and-announcements/introductory-box-set-reprint-lance-packs/

 Albertorius wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are you talking about the starters or are there new battle tech plastics?

New plastics:

http://bg.battletech.com/news/news-and-announcements/introductory-box-set-reprint-lance-packs/

If those are the same minatures from the starter you are grossly overpaying at 20.00

efarrer wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are you talking about the starters or are there new battle tech plastics?

New plastics:

http://bg.battletech.com/news/news-and-announcements/introductory-box-set-reprint-lance-packs/

If those are the same minatures from the starter you are grossly overpaying at 20.00

Which one? The minis of the new starter are really nice for 1-piece models, at least as good as anything released so far for the Spacy. Soo... if those are overpriced, it would follow that the RRT ones...

efarrer wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are you talking about the starters or are there new battle tech plastics?

New plastics:

http://bg.battletech.com/news/news-and-announcements/introductory-box-set-reprint-lance-packs/

If those are the same minatures from the starter you are grossly overpaying at 20.00

efarrer have you seen the RRT ones? right now many people are having problems with pieces breaking from just cutting them off the sprue, plus the parts count and so on, if you think 1pc. ready to go BT minis at $20 is expensive then your thinking the 2 unit veritechs at $37 is ungodly priced.

Do they have any plastic Btech minis that aren't fugly?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Do they have any plastic Btech minis that aren't fugly?

They did.

But they stole those from robotech and some other shows.

efarrer wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Do they have any plastic Btech minis that aren't fugly?

They did.

But they stole those from robotech and some other shows.

You clearly don't know the actual history between Battletech and Robotech, but please do prattle on.



FASA had obtained a license trough TCI, unfortunately TCI wasn't authorized to redistribute their license which didn't come to light until years later. They didn't "steal" gak, and if you want to throw stones Harmony Gold are the ones that "stole" things when the Berne Convention laws went into effect and locked the Japanese studios out of their own property within the US.

Asterios wrote:


If those are the same minatures from the starter you are grossly overpaying at 20.00

efarrer have you seen the RRT ones? right now many people are having problems with pieces breaking from just cutting them off the sprue, plus the parts count and so on, if you think 1pc. ready to go BT minis at $20 is expensive then your thinking the 2 unit veritechs at $37 is ungodly priced.

efarrer wrote:

Asterios wrote:


If those are the same minatures from the starter you are grossly overpaying at 20.00

efarrer have you seen the RRT ones? right now many people are having problems with pieces breaking from just cutting them off the sprue, plus the parts count and so on, if you think 1pc. ready to go BT minis at $20 is expensive then your thinking the 2 unit veritechs at $37 is ungodly priced.

But those really aren't comparable.

The Battletech are one part models- monoposed- from a starter box. The Atlas model is fugly and doesn't compare to the lead monopose I got 25 years ago.

Complaining about the multipart plastic and fidly bits is a joke if you bring battle tech into the equation as well- because the comparable models are the metals and some of those (many indeed have ridiculous part counts (in addition to being metal). And on the positive side even if it is out of scale the Officers pod should go together better than any Mad3r ever (I think I glued myfingers more then the model back then).As well the VT is still six models all told.

and people would rather have the single piece models then what PB gave us, have you even looked at the KS forums? very little positive being said about the builds, people complaining about pieces breaking from being cut off the sprue or not fitting and the instructions are a joke and no help, seriously have you even checked? not too mention people posting on the Palladium FB forums about problems with the builds and that's not even getting into what PB recently did to screw over the overseas backers. also while it might be 6 models it is still only 2 units.

 paulson games wrote:


You clearly don't know the actual history between Battletech and Robotech, but please do prattle on.



FASA had obtained a license trough TCI, unfortunately TCI wasn't authorized to redistribute their license which didn't come to light until years later. They didn't "steal" gak, and if you want to throw stones Harmony Gold are the ones that "stole" things when the Berne Convention laws went into effect and locked the Japanese studios out of their own property within the US.

To what I know and don't know about that case you can assume what you will...

The incredibly complicated mess that is copyright, in particular in this case, makes for complicated pages let alone, sentences. Fasa didn't have legal rights to the images of the most iconic mechs in the game and continued to use them long past the point where it was reasonable to believe that they did.

The only battle tech models that I have ever liked, and I played it for 15 years, were the ones that were taken from sources other than the company. You may like, and to judge from the models you produce you appear to, the (imo ugly) boxy models that catalyst and ironwind have produced. I don't.

efarrer wrote:

 paulson games wrote:


You clearly don't know the actual history between Battletech and Robotech, but please do prattle on.



FASA had obtained a license trough TCI, unfortunately TCI wasn't authorized to redistribute their license which didn't come to light until years later. They didn't "steal" gak, and if you want to throw stones Harmony Gold are the ones that "stole" things when the Berne Convention laws went into effect and locked the Japanese studios out of their own property within the US.

To what I know and don't know about that case you can assume what you will...

The incredibly complicated mess that is copyright, in particular in this case, makes for complicated pages let alone, sentences. Fasa didn't have legal rights to the images of the most iconic mechs in the game and continued to use them long past the point where it was reasonable to believe that they did.

The only battle tech models that I have ever liked, and I played it for 15 years, were the ones that were taken from sources other than the company. You may like, and to judge from the models you produce you appear to, the (imo ugly) boxy models that catalyst and ironwind have produced. I don't.

actually I was more inclined towards the Clan Mechs that they did have the rights to since they were their own design.

Asterios wrote:




and people would rather have the single piece models then what PB gave us, have you even looked at the KS forums? very little positive being said about the builds, people complaining about pieces breaking from being cut off the sprue or not fitting and the instructions are a joke and no help, seriously have you even checked? not too mention people posting on the Palladium FB forums about problems with the builds and that's not even getting into what PB recently did to screw over the overseas backers. also while it might be 6 models it is still only 2 units.

You mean where you and three or four other post every single day whining about everything to with the kickstarter.

Yeah, I've been there.

Six models is six models.

efarrer wrote:

Asterios wrote:




and people would rather have the single piece models then what PB gave us, have you even looked at the KS forums? very little positive being said about the builds, people complaining about pieces breaking from being cut off the sprue or not fitting and the instructions are a joke and no help, seriously have you even checked? not too mention people posting on the Palladium FB forums about problems with the builds and that's not even getting into what PB recently did to screw over the overseas backers. also while it might be 6 models it is still only 2 units.

You mean where you and three or four other post every single day whining about everything to with the kickstarter.

Yeah, I've been there.

Six models is six models.

yes 6 models, but still only 2 units, lets compare it to the Destroids shall we? which is still $33 for 4 models. and you sound like ol Lolafett who has been pretty quiet since many now turning on him, as to the same 3-4 the number is growing and growing each day, I wanted a Robotech game, but thanks to PB's greed and bumbling that will not happen, the game is dead.

Asterios wrote:

yes 6 models, but still only 2 units, lets compare it to the Destroids shall we? which is still $33 for 4 models. and you sound like ol Lolafett who has been pretty quiet since many now turning on him, as to the same 3-4 the number is growing and growing each day, I wanted a Robotech game, but thanks to PB's greed and bumbling that will not happen, the game is dead.

No. The game is not dead. It's not even started yet. If it fails to sell at retail then it will be dead. Right now it's not dead. We will have to see how it does at retail.

Is it perfect? No.
Is it bad? The majority of the reviews I have seen have been positive with caveats or negative with caveats- not terribly uncommon for a miniatures game. TheBoard game Geek rating falling about the same as 40K and Fantasy, as well as Battletech.

Could it have been better? Resoundingly yes. Communication would have helped. There are some issues with some of the models, but not at least they aren't soft plastic like bones and the battle tech mins I got in whatever the last set I bought was or garbage like Finecast.
Am I unhappy and gonna sell my stuff off? No. After years of abuse by a variety of roleplaying and wargaming companies- Here's looking at you GW- I feel pretty much used to this.

efarrer wrote:
But those really aren't comparable.

Oh, of course they aren't: you can buy the Btech box, take out the minis and cards, put them on the table and start playing right away.

Asterios wrote:

and people would rather have the single piece models then what PB gave us, have you even looked at the KS forums? very little positive being said about the builds, people complaining about pieces breaking from being cut off the sprue or not fitting and the instructions are a joke and no help, seriously have you even checked? not too mention people posting on the Palladium FB forums about problems with the builds and that's not even getting into what PB recently did to screw over the overseas backers. also while it might be 6 models it is still only 2 units.

I would rather have multi-piece plastics done well. Are you sure people aren't just complaining about these particular builds? The Zentraedi units are fun and easy to assemble, but the hero mecha in this series are so poorly designed that I doubt they can be assembled at all as intended. Without enough hobby experience and confidence to know when to cut off a tab or hack a piece into shape for fitting, the Guardian kit is nigh-impossible. That's not the fault of multi-piece plastics, but rather the moron who designed the RDF multi-piece plastics.

I agree on the instructions being a joke. And the pieces wouldn't break so easily if the RTT instructions had even a smidge of advice for newbies. Clippers take them right off the sprue intact with just a bit of care.

But you know what? I'd take all of those issues over the seriously pathetic Battletech plastics in the new starter. I'll just wait for the Bones CAV minis instead of buying those. I got better plastic robots than those in the take-home baggy from my childhood dentist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:

efarrer wrote:
But those really aren't comparable.

Oh, of course they aren't: you can buy the Btech box, take out the minis and cards, put them on the table and start playing right away.

Please. I remember trying to play Battletech straight. You need to spend at least a week memorizing rules and removing the part of your brain responsible for recognizing tedium.

Not that I'm saying the Robotech game is any better. I wouldn't know and probably never will.

Hope CAV is fun or I'll probably just use these mecha in some funky Warpath counts-as OCD/scale nightmare.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asterios wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
Terrain is going to look seriously stupid with all these mixed scales on the same table.

Would you rather see the game dead and buried than see the next two seasons released at a scale that (shudder) normal people could enjoy?

what makes you think the game isn't already dead? so far from what I've seen and not just the negative reviews, but how the game was designed and being supported, the game is already dead, they cannot market it as a miniature game, but an RPG game so that's a knife wound, they have no way of continuing with expansions in the series since they brought out all their designs in the kickstarter so no support from new items, another knife wound, their price point is too pricey for what your getting, if you got in the KS then yeah you got a decent price, or if you buy the box game you got a decent price, but the add-ons are over priced, another knife wound. splitting of the rules between the rulebook and the cards, another knife wound and the list goes on, this game has received so many knife wounds its bleeding to death and its just a matter of time till it rolls over and dies.

Well, the game itself probably is dead, then, but the product lines could live on if they were appealing. With all the mecha games floating around these days, one dead rule book shouldn't kill any models.

I stand by my assertion that Invid mecha, designed by the team who did the Zentraedi and released in a scale that allowed the average gamer to assemble, paint and field individual cyclones and scouts, would be a thing of beauty. Hell, I'd buy a Tyranid counts-as force of them and make them fight my Trollforged Alien Host. In the year 2525, when they are released.