fe40k wrote: Do BigGunz have a place with the new MekGunz looking really attractive now?
I feel like if you want to fill out a brigade cheaply and you don't want any big HS options they could play a role. They're also the only source of "only shootable if its the closest unit" unit of grotz now that GW has consolidated the rules for the Mek Gunz for their crew. Other than that, I don't see why you would bother with the Lobba or the Zzap Gun. Only the Kannon seems semi-decent now.
gungo wrote: If you don’t want to repaint everything they sell colored base rings you clip onto the bases that allow you to not only differentiate clans but units. So like all orks w blue bases are deathskull and all red ones are evil suns and all yellow are bad moons. It gets a bit trickier with vehicles but odds are all vehicles are part of one detachment anyway. The rings fit 24 or 32mm bases.
Yeah I might just end up painting their bases if it comes down to that. Right now everything is painted in different klans to represent a big warband/WAAAAAGH (mix of goff, evil suns, bad moons and a bit of deff skull) and ill be assed if im going to repaint 180 boyz just to change up my list on a whim whenever I want to try something new
Automatically Appended Next Post: ALSO: Killsaws on meganobs. How many extra points is it? Do we think its worth it for the extra attack? If its like 10 points I think its probably worth the extra points. Losing the kustom shoota is no big deal imo and the flat 2 damage is better than D3 imo
I did my order for codex, trike and mekshop for now
Question the Mek shop says it is compatible with the Ryza stc ruins.... I’m assuming this means it’s just more ruin scatter terrain and it doesn’t expand the Mek shop itself into a proper building. I might actually have to buy it now.
fe40k wrote: Do BigGunz have a place with the new MekGunz looking really attractive now?
New Smash gun is priced at 31 pts, Dont think the kannon or the zap gun are remotely on the same level,
Theybstill have grot crew. Best scoring unit in the game. So, you're paying for the crew and also get a rokkit launcha because why not.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So, is there the exact wording of the grot shield strategem allready?
I'm toying around with the tactics of actually running my 10 meganobz without getting blown away by dark angel helblasters.
The problem is that even if i deepstrike meganobz, helblasters get 4 chances to blow them away.
Auspec strategem to shoot the deepstrikers with a -1 modifier
Than the ones that overheat just shoot the second time due to banner. And now without a -1 penalty reliably blowing the squad away.
Than when i charge they overwatch and with a full re-roll also get a bunch of hits in. Basically, a unit of 10 will generate around 6-7 hits and some overheats that will also generate about the same amount of hits with a banner. Wiping the squad of 10 manz once again.
So, it seems there's nothing we can do to make anything other than boyz reach helblasters. But if grot shield is usable every phase, including our turn, we can deepstrike a unit of 40 grots alongside meganobz and eat all that plazma.
Hi
One question regarding the old units that is not included in the codex, like the Warboss on bike; will there be a faq that gives this unit the new "Culture" keyword? How has it been for similar units in other codex’s?
Nora wrote: Hi
One question regarding the old units that is not included in the codex, like the Warboss on bike; will there be a faq that gives this unit the new "Culture" keyword? How has it been for similar units in other codex’s?
Very good question. This kulture key word is annoying as hell.
At the moment I was still banking on playing a warboss on bike, not really sold on the trike, since I'm unlikely to run walkers so advance and charge for bikers will be enough for me.
Nora wrote: Hi
One question regarding the old units that is not included in the codex, like the Warboss on bike; will there be a faq that gives this unit the new "Culture" keyword? How has it been for similar units in other codex’s?
Super unlikely so if the bad moon etc bonuses are indeed Culture rather than clan...Guess index units don't get those(and would play havoc with battleforged rule) so maybe orks got them deleted for really good-good...
So, made a little list for 1k games... please note that this list isn't meant to be super-competitive, it's more simple funsies for casual games but should still be able to blow some stuff up. It's also for a 4x4 board.
Evil Sunz Batallion
HQ
1x Trikeboss (Warlord, Da Supa-Cybork relic, probably Might makes Right or Brutal but Kunnin' trait)
1x Weirdboy (Da Jump, might change him into a Warp'ead and then take Fists of Gork or Warpath along with it)
Troops
10x Boyz
- 1x Nob with PK
15x Boyz
- 1x Nob with PK
10x Gretchin
Elites
3x Nob Bikers with PK (are these considered Elites or Fast Attack?)
10x Tankbustas in Trukk
Fast Attack
1x Kustom Boosta-Blasta
1x Snazzwagon
Should be 999 points.
Battle plan is simple: Boyz and Weirdboy hide somewhere, Boyz mob up, Weirdboy ports them over for T1 charge. Gretchin will probably take some random backfield objective and pray to Gork and Mork that they don't get blown off of it (these guys are really batallion tax for the CP). Trikeboss and Nob Bikers will attempt to charge some unlucky gitz T1. Snazzwagon and Boosta-Blasta are for taking out infantry, especially of the ruin-hogging kind (got lots of that in my local meta). Tankbustaz are for taking out any important vehicles or monsters on the board.
TedNugent wrote: I have to be honest, I'm seriously considering ditching boys in favor of nobs, meganobs, tankbustas, etc in transports.
With death skulls trait, they all have objective secured.
Even HQs would have objective secured. Aside from one morale blob, I'm tempted to ditch boys entirely and just use grots instead. Nobs and meganobs scale better. For the same cost as ten boys (bonebreaka or trukk), you can get 5 nobs or 2 meganobs with klaws. They'd also have objective secured.
The nobs could be paired with ammo runts and kitted as needed.
I came to the same conclusion when shoving around models in my drafts. A mechanized list has very little use for boyz since units of 12/20 don't do a lot. The only thing that could potentially make sense is bringing a regular battlewagon with two units of 10 inside to mob up with other units that have jumped, tellyported were being sneaky bloodaxes. Then again, you could just be transporting two units of nobz and mob those up. Especially the dual choppa option really closes the gap between boyz and nobz - 50 S5 attacks compare pretty well to 80 S4 attacks (unless Goff).
Nora wrote: Hi
One question regarding the old units that is not included in the codex, like the Warboss on bike; will there be a faq that gives this unit the new "Culture" keyword? How has it been for similar units in other codex’s?
Super unlikely so if the bad moon etc bonuses are indeed Culture rather than clan...Guess index units don't get those(and would play havoc with battleforged rule) so maybe orks got them deleted for really good-good...
Fun chicken little impression you got going there.
Like every index, index orks have the <clan> keyword.
fe40k wrote: Do BigGunz have a place with the new MekGunz looking really attractive now?
New Smash gun is priced at 31 pts, Dont think the kannon or the zap gun are remotely on the same level,
One unusual quirk of the rules is that Big Gunz do actually get Clan Kultur because they're not entirely comprised of GRETCHIN models. I fully expect them to FAQ that at the first opportunity, but Deffskull Kannons in particular are pretty sweet. BS4+ Str 8 Ap-2 D6dmg with reroll to hit, wound and damage for 28 points is pretty damn good.
fe40k wrote: Do BigGunz have a place with the new MekGunz looking really attractive now?
New Smash gun is priced at 31 pts, Dont think the kannon or the zap gun are remotely on the same level,
One unusual quirk of the rules is that Big Gunz do actually get Clan Kultur because they're not entirely comprised of GRETCHIN models. I fully expect them to FAQ that at the first opportunity, but Deffskull Kannons in particular are pretty sweet. BS4+ Str 8 Ap-2 D6dmg with reroll to hit, wound and damage for 28 points is pretty damn good.
I thought the Gunz themselves also have the GRETCHIN keyword.
Nora wrote: Hi
One question regarding the old units that is not included in the codex, like the Warboss on bike; will there be a faq that gives this unit the new "Culture" keyword? How has it been for similar units in other codex’s?
Super unlikely so if the bad moon etc bonuses are indeed Culture rather than clan...Guess index units don't get those(and would play havoc with battleforged rule) so maybe orks got them deleted for really good-good...
Fun chicken little impression you got going there.
Like every index, index orks have the <clan> keyword.
Yes. Do they have Kulture though? If the codex uses term Culture rather than Clan and there's no FAQ saying otherwise the two are not same. So you could pick Clan but it's not same as Culture so no bad moon rerolling 1's unless GWfaq's index working same way...
Now have to read exact wording on codex as I don't have codex in my hands but something to keep in mind.
With other codexes it's different because the term didn't change...Chapter, Regiment etc were same whether it was index or codex.
Now maybe I'm wrong but if codex uses term Clan why people keep using word Culture? That sounds like the <XXX> changed in codex and at that point unless codex specifically says <Culture> is same as <Clan> in index or otherwise indicates they are same then barring FAQ saying otherwise(unlikely) then no they do not work identically.
fe40k wrote: Do BigGunz have a place with the new MekGunz looking really attractive now?
New Smash gun is priced at 31 pts, Dont think the kannon or the zap gun are remotely on the same level,
One unusual quirk of the rules is that Big Gunz do actually get Clan Kultur because they're not entirely comprised of GRETCHIN models. I fully expect them to FAQ that at the first opportunity, but Deffskull Kannons in particular are pretty sweet. BS4+ Str 8 Ap-2 D6dmg with reroll to hit, wound and damage for 28 points is pretty damn good.
I thought the Gunz themselves also have the GRETCHIN keyword.
Do the guns have their own set of keywords? Don't have index at work(surprise surprise). If they have one set of keywords(Gretching, Grot gunner, Infantry) then they count as gretchin for that rule. If they have separate for gun and crew(like flashgit entry has for flashgits and ammo runts) then no.
Hey, I have 2 questions.
After reading the tactics 1d4chan wiki, 2 fun synergies seemed possible that I'd really like to use.
1) weirdboy's eabanger is a 9" range closest target spell that instantly kills the target if you beat it's tougness on a d6.
I wanted to convert a weirdboy into a sniper, make him a blood axe clan, give him the blood axes relic that allows to pick a warlord trait, and give him the deathskull warlord trait that allows to target ennemy warlords from 18" away without it having to be the closest target.
Would that be allowed ? Do i have to make him a deathskull warlord to use the trait ? Can eadbanger have an 18" range that can target indiscreminately ?
2) I want to build a gorkanaut from scrath and strap a huge rocket on it's back, and use the tellyporta stratagem to deep strike it turn1 9" from the biggest threat on the board and get it to charge, using cp's if necessary to increase likelihood of that charge. Is this scenario possible ?
Ahzekfanboy wrote: Hey, I have 2 questions.
After reading the tactics 1d4chan wiki, 2 fun synergies seemed possible that I'd really like to use.
1) weirdboy's eabanger is a 9" range closest target spell that instantly kills the target if you beat it's tougness on a d6.
I wanted to convert a weirdboy into a sniper, make him a blood axe clan, give him the blood axes relic that allows to pick a warlord trait, and give him the deathskull warlord trait that allows to target ennemy warlords from 18" away without it having to be the closest target.
Would that be allowed ? Do i have to make him a deathskull warlord to use the trait ? Can eadbanger have an 18" range that can target indiscreminately ?
2) I want to build a gorkanaut from scrath and strap a huge rocket on it's back, and use the tellyporta stratagem to deep strike it turn1 9" from the biggest threat on the board and get it to charge, using cp's if necessary to increase likelihood of that charge. Is this scenario possible ?
I think you have misunderstood the warlord trait. It doesn't change the range of anything, it just allows the warload to target characters if they are within 18", even though they are not the closest unit.
Ahzekfanboy wrote: Hey, I have 2 questions.
After reading the tactics 1d4chan wiki, 2 fun synergies seemed possible that I'd really like to use.
1) weirdboy's eabanger is a 9" range closest target spell that instantly kills the target if you beat it's tougness on a d6.
I wanted to convert a weirdboy into a sniper, make him a blood axe clan, give him the blood axes relic that allows to pick a warlord trait, and give him the deathskull warlord trait that allows to target ennemy warlords from 18" away without it having to be the closest target.
Would that be allowed ? Do i have to make him a deathskull warlord to use the trait ? Can eadbanger have an 18" range that can target indiscreminately ?
2) I want to build a gorkanaut from scrath and strap a huge rocket on it's back, and use the tellyporta stratagem to deep strike it turn1 9" from the biggest threat on the board and get it to charge, using cp's if necessary to increase likelihood of that charge. Is this scenario possible ?
Nothing wrong with number 2, but number 1 is wrong on several levels. The warlord trait (which is Deathskull specific, yes, Blood Axes can't take it) only applies to shooting attacks, and has no effect on psychic powers. The only thing right is that the codex has improved its base range to 18"
Ahzekfanboy wrote: Hey, I have 2 questions.
After reading the tactics 1d4chan wiki, 2 fun synergies seemed possible that I'd really like to use.
1) weirdboy's eabanger is a 9" range closest target spell that instantly kills the target if you beat it's tougness on a d6.
I wanted to convert a weirdboy into a sniper, make him a blood axe clan, give him the blood axes relic that allows to pick a warlord trait, and give him the deathskull warlord trait that allows to target ennemy warlords from 18" away without it having to be the closest target.
Would that be allowed ? Do i have to make him a deathskull warlord to use the trait ? Can eadbanger have an 18" range that can target indiscreminately ?
2) I want to build a gorkanaut from scrath and strap a huge rocket on it's back, and use the tellyporta stratagem to deep strike it turn1 9" from the biggest threat on the board and get it to charge, using cp's if necessary to increase likelihood of that charge. Is this scenario possible ?
Without codex at hand not sure but I haven't read anywhere it gives ability to ignore clan specific restiction thus no deathskull warlord trait. Why would you want him to be blood axe then though? What bonus that would give. Also depends on the spell wording. If it doesnt' say anything about targeting that deathskull thing is useless. Smite for example. (edit: And of course if the deathskull is shooting only then no good at all)
For 2 yes. Just make sure it's evil sun for 8" charge.
Oh and BTWCP usage is not that often needed as ork standard reroll allows rerolling both or one so only time you would need it would be you roll say 5 and 1. Drat. Not enough. Reroll 1 with ork rule. 3. Still not enough. NOW you could use CP to reroll that 5 to try and get that 6. Obviously odds of this coming up increases with evil suns.
Coh Magnussen wrote: Does that run afoul of "only reroll once" or am I misremembering that rule?
You would be rerolling all dices only once so don't see why it would.
What you couldn't do is reroll 1 with CP and then if still botched reroll both with ork rule(say you rolled 5 and 1, you try to CP reroll that 1 and roll 3. Odds wise it would be better to reroll both(28% or so) but illegal as one dice would be rerolled twice so can't do so would have to try to reroll the 5 to get 6(16.67% chance)
Nora wrote: Hi
One question regarding the old units that is not included in the codex, like the Warboss on bike; will there be a faq that gives this unit the new "Culture" keyword? How has it been for similar units in other codex’s?
Super unlikely so if the bad moon etc bonuses are indeed Culture rather than clan...Guess index units don't get those(and would play havoc with battleforged rule) so maybe orks got them deleted for really good-good...
Fun chicken little impression you got going there.
Like every index, index orks have the <clan> keyword.
Yes. Do they have Kulture though? If the codex uses term Culture rather than Clan and there's no FAQ saying otherwise the two are not same. So you could pick Clan but it's not same as Culture so no bad moon rerolling 1's unless GWfaq's index working same way...
Now have to read exact wording on codex as I don't have codex in my hands but something to keep in mind.
With other codexes it's different because the term didn't change...Chapter, Regiment etc were same whether it was index or codex.
Now maybe I'm wrong but if codex uses term Clan why people keep using word Culture? That sounds like the <XXX> changed in codex and at that point unless codex specifically says <Culture> is same as <Clan> in index or otherwise indicates they are same then barring FAQ saying otherwise(unlikely) then no they do not work identically.
fe40k wrote: Do BigGunz have a place with the new MekGunz looking really attractive now?
New Smash gun is priced at 31 pts, Dont think the kannon or the zap gun are remotely on the same level,
One unusual quirk of the rules is that Big Gunz do actually get Clan Kultur because they're not entirely comprised of GRETCHIN models. I fully expect them to FAQ that at the first opportunity, but Deffskull Kannons in particular are pretty sweet. BS4+ Str 8 Ap-2 D6dmg with reroll to hit, wound and damage for 28 points is pretty damn good.
I thought the Gunz themselves also have the GRETCHIN keyword.
Do the guns have their own set of keywords? Don't have index at work(surprise surprise). If they have one set of keywords(Gretching, Grot gunner, Infantry) then they count as gretchin for that rule. If they have separate for gun and crew(like flashgit entry has for flashgits and ammo runts) then no.
Again, like every codex: detachments composed entirely of one <clan> will receive the corresponding Clan Kultur.
Gretchin units still have <clan> and freebootas get a free pass to join a <clan> detachment without breaking benefits.
Played a 2k game last night. I used leaked rules and points where applicable. Otherwise used index. Opponent was spave wolves with logan, thunder wolf cav, 3 squads of hunters and claws, run priest terminators, couple rhinos, venerable dread and some other charaters.
My list was:
Goff Battalion
3x 30 boys, nob, with pk warboss with ded killy klaw relic,
weirdboy w/ fists of gork
Evil suns battalion
10 grots
10 grots
12 boys, nob w/ pk in a trukk
weirdboy with warpath
weirdboy with da jump
9 MANz 10 tankbustas with 2 bomb squigs in a trukk
15 burna boys in a bonebreaka
couple observations:
mobs of skarboyz are LEGIT
I miss my MA warboss
tankbustas going RR hits to RR 1s is a big nerf and let down
burna boys were fun but had no good targets.
bonebreak is DOPE. very killy on the charge
wondering if filling a BW w/deff rolla full of burnas would be worth it (without the bonebreak +d6 attacks) for the ability to flame on from inside the wagon...?
I came to the same conclusion when shoving around models in my drafts. A mechanized list has very little use for boyz since units of 12/20 don't do a lot.
In the codex every tenth boy gets to take Tankbusta bombs for 0 points. That suddenly makes boyz semi-decent against heavy armor if you can get them close.
TedNugent wrote: I have to be honest, I'm seriously considering ditching boys in favor of nobs, meganobs, tankbustas, etc in transports.
With death skulls trait, they all have objective secured.
Even HQs would have objective secured. Aside from one morale blob, I'm tempted to ditch boys entirely and just use grots instead. Nobs and meganobs scale better. For the same cost as ten boys (bonebreaka or trukk), you can get 5 nobs or 2 meganobs with klaws. They'd also have objective secured.
The nobs could be paired with ammo runts and kitted as needed.
I came to the same conclusion when shoving around models in my drafts. A mechanized list has very little use for boyz since units of 12/20 don't do a lot. The only thing that could potentially make sense is bringing a regular battlewagon with two units of 10 inside to mob up with other units that have jumped, tellyported were being sneaky bloodaxes. Then again, you could just be transporting two units of nobz and mob those up. Especially the dual choppa option really closes the gap between boyz and nobz - 50 S5 attacks compare pretty well to 80 S4 attacks (unless Goff).
Pretty sure the tankbusta reroll 1's is incorrect. Strikingscorpion said it in his video but I think he misspoke. No-one else has mentioned it as far as I know.
Nora wrote: Hi
One question regarding the old units that is not included in the codex, like the Warboss on bike; will there be a faq that gives this unit the new "Culture" keyword? How has it been for similar units in other codex’s?
Very good question. This kulture key word is annoying as hell.
At the moment I was still banking on playing a warboss on bike, not really sold on the trike, since I'm unlikely to run walkers so advance and charge for bikers will be enough for me.
THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING... if they would just give the wartrike the option to take a klaw... i just wanna give the guy the relic klaw... but i cant because every new model has to have damn unique equipment... this is so dumb. DAMN GW...
I came to the same conclusion when shoving around models in my drafts. A mechanized list has very little use for boyz since units of 12/20 don't do a lot.
In the codex every tenth boy gets to take Tankbusta bombs for 0 points. That suddenly makes boyz semi-decent against heavy armor if you can get them close.
While getting the bomb that has been in the box for so long is awesome, d3 shots at 6" hitting on 5+ is far from decent, especially since a unit of 20 can still throw just one grenade at a time.
If I can get boyz close, I can get nobz close as well. 15 big choppa attacks are probably going to do more than that tankbusta bomb.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
koooaei wrote: Tankbustas loosing a full reroll? Sad day indeed. Well, more points for the rest of the list. They were on the edge allready.
Oh well. I still have 3 ww2 gunz that used to be kmk. They're gona be smashas now. I guess. Too bad they have no kultur but ddd is confirmed, right?
DDD explicitly mentions how bubblechukkas should be handled, so mek guns will definitely be getting that.
Kinda disappointed with many of the changes. I have nearly 3000 points of Orks and most of the stuff I own is nerfed one way or the other and seems that everything I don't already own have received some buffs. So I'm looking at about 200€ to dish out to make a decent list. Not really sure if it's worth the bother really, already spent a small fortune building my army.
Guess I'll just try out the stuff that I have and if it's hot garbage it's probably time to rage quit.
Life tip: Doom & Gloom is better than optimism, saves you from a lot of disappointment.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: tankbustas going RR hits to RR 1s is a big nerf and let down
Wait what? When and where was this announced?
It wasn't. It was misspoken one time in one review video, and in every other review video and batrep theyve still had the existing reroll everything rule, and people are still whining about it.
I was thinking about something else today: while Gretchin units do not get the benefit of a Klan Kultur special rule, they are (confirmed from videos) still <clan> units.
To me, this means we're likely to be seeing one klan in particular a lot more than you otherwise would: Freebootas.
Freebootas have a crap warlord trait, a crap relic, and a crappity crap crap stratagem, but their trait (+1BS if another Freebootas unit within 24" killed something this phase) is pretty good, IF you can trigger it. And what better unit to trigger it with than a unit that's going to be not benefiting from any other stratagem anyway and which shares a detachment slot with Flash Gitz?
Assuming you're already going to be taking a few mek gunz (why wouldn't you) the only cost to making a unit of Flash Gitz you have Freebootas is a single HQ choice. So take Badrukk or a SAG mek and you're ready to roll. If you want more CPs, another SAG mek and 30 gretchin is only 170 points (that does limit you to only 3 heavy slots though).
Shokkjump Dragstas are also wonderful slotted into a freeboota detachment, because theyre a small enough unit that they don't actually really want to shoot twice (IMO, the only reason you'd ever take Bad Moons over Freebootas) and besides, if you boost a SJD up to 2+ bs with the freeboota kultur, the "More Dakka" stratagem actually gives you MORE HITS than if he was a bad moon and you gave him shoot twice. Very slightly more, but the difference is there. More Dakka makes DDD trigger on a 5+, and the SJD under Freeboota kultur effect is adding 3 to all its hit rolls..meaning 2s are 5+.
Seems like orks have 3 different shooty options, and I don't think one is strictly always the best:
-Bad Moonz if you like big huge units like mobbed up shoota boyz and max loota squads, built around blasting people with the shoot twice strat.
-Deffskulls if you prefer MSU shooting with koptas and min squads
gungo wrote: If you don’t want to repaint everything they sell colored base rings you clip onto the bases that allow you to not only differentiate clans but units. So like all orks w blue bases are deathskull and all red ones are evil suns and all yellow are bad moons. It gets a bit trickier with vehicles but odds are all vehicles are part of one detachment anyway. The rings fit 24 or 32mm bases.
Interesting idea. Although I might go back to 2nd Edition and adding swappable back-banners on the Nobz and vehicles.
the_scotsman wrote: Freebootas have a crap warlord trait, a crap relic, and a crappity crap crap stratagem, but their trait (+1BS if another Freebootas unit within 24" killed something this phase) is pretty good, IF you can trigger it. And what better unit to trigger it with than a unit that's going to be not benefiting from any other stratagem anyway and which shares a detachment slot with Flash Gitz?
It is not +1BS, but +1 to hit rolls, so it works in close combat aswell. Orks hitting on 2+... Yes please!
DoomMouse wrote: Can index ork units benefit from the clan cultures as they'd have the <clan> keyword? I'm still thinking about deathskull rokkit buggies...
And the_scotsman - doesn't DDD only trigger on unmodified 6+ (or 5+ with more dakka) so those buffs to the shokjump dragsta wouldn't apply to it?
DDD only triggers on an unmodified 6.
More Dakka makes DDD trigger on a 5+ - every reading I've seen hasn't said anything about "unmodified."
Weazel wrote: Kinda disappointed with many of the changes. I have nearly 3000 points of Orks and most of the stuff I own is nerfed one way or the other and seems that everything I don't already own have received some buffs. So I'm looking at about 200€ to dish out to make a decent list. Not really sure if it's worth the bother really, already spent a small fortune building my army.
Guess I'll just try out the stuff that I have and if it's hot garbage it's probably time to rage quit.
Life tip: Doom & Gloom is better than optimism, saves you from a lot of disappointment.
Hah try tripple that and imagine how i feel. Well some are salvageable with repaint but still
the_scotsman wrote: Freebootas have a crap warlord trait, a crap relic, and a crappity crap crap stratagem, but their trait (+1BS if another Freebootas unit within 24" killed something this phase) is pretty good, IF you can trigger it. And what better unit to trigger it with than a unit that's going to be not benefiting from any other stratagem anyway and which shares a detachment slot with Flash Gitz?
It is not +1BS, but +1 to hit rolls, so it works in close combat aswell. Orks hitting on 2+... Yes please!
yes, but the buff only lasts for the phase. So you have to kill something in the fight phase before you get to be 2+ to hit. Since I've got other good melee traits I'm good on trying to do melee with flash gitz.
See video. There isn't much question about what anything does anymore, you can read most of the data sheets in the video, and he goes over each one, one at a time.
Nora wrote: Hi
One question regarding the old units that is not included in the codex, like the Warboss on bike; will there be a faq that gives this unit the new "Culture" keyword? How has it been for similar units in other codex’s?
Very good question. This kulture key word is annoying as hell.
At the moment I was still banking on playing a warboss on bike, not really sold on the trike, since I'm unlikely to run walkers so advance and charge for bikers will be enough for me.
THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING... if they would just give the wartrike the option to take a klaw... i just wanna give the guy the relic klaw... but i cant because every new model has to have damn unique equipment... this is so dumb. DAMN GW...
My group and I did a video of us talking about the new speed freak box and codex. We went into a lot of detail on codex and what are some of the important things to know for when the codex comes out.
PiñaColada wrote: Pretty sure the tankbusta reroll 1's is incorrect. Strikingscorpion said it in his video but I think he misspoke. No-one else has mentioned it as far as I know.
Which just goes to show that no reviewer knows or cares about orks. Any ork player would be damn sure to check that.
TedNugent wrote: I have to be honest, I'm seriously considering ditching boys in favor of nobs, meganobs, tankbustas, etc in transports.
With death skulls trait, they all have objective secured.
Even HQs would have objective secured. Aside from one morale blob, I'm tempted to ditch boys entirely and just use grots instead. Nobs and meganobs scale better. For the same cost as ten boys (bonebreaka or trukk), you can get 5 nobs or 2 meganobs with klaws. They'd also have objective secured.
The nobs could be paired with ammo runts and kitted as needed.
I came to the same conclusion when shoving around models in my drafts. A mechanized list has very little use for boyz since units of 12/20 don't do a lot. The only thing that could potentially make sense is bringing a regular battlewagon with two units of 10 inside to mob up with other units that have jumped, tellyported were being sneaky bloodaxes. Then again, you could just be transporting two units of nobz and mob those up. Especially the dual choppa option really closes the gap between boyz and nobz - 50 S5 attacks compare pretty well to 80 S4 attacks (unless Goff).
Realistically, what's the chance of making it into combat with green tide on a 20 man mob?
Overwatch has a pretty good chance of clipping off a single model to drop them down to 3 attacks. Like from a combat squad of scouts.
That would reduce you to 60 S4 attacks on sluggas.
Hence why I find them unappealing to say the least. Boys are a logistical pain in the
Nobs are happy with any unit size, and at the new price you're essentially trading a 4+ armor save compared to increased damage output under ideal conditions. Once they lose green tide, nobs are just better short of multiple wound damage (hello ammo runt MSUs).
With death skulls, they have obsec. Seriously, why not if you're going to be using transports. And the bonebreaka makes me want to do that. With a 12 transport capacity, and the price changes, boys aren't making a good case for being the occupants.
So I created a 2k list to try and tackle nids. My opponent likes running bigger monster lists but does have a horde or 2 thrown in occasionally and he groups everything close for the -1 to hit from venomthropes.
I was thinking along these lines but The math could still be off to some degree
Deathskull Battalion
HQ:
Big mek SAG:
Big Mek SAG
Troops:
gretchen x 10
gretchen x 10
gretchen x 10
Goff Battalion
HQ:
- warboss
attack squig
Headwoppas
Big killa boss WT
-Weirdboy
Troops:
Boys x 12
nob
PK
Boys x 12
nob
PK
Boys x 30
nob
PK
Elites
Painboy
killsaw
Evil Sunz Spearhead
HQ:
Wartrike
Fast attack:
Warbikers x 3
Nob
PK
Heavy Support
Bonecrusha
Bonecrusha
Killa kans x 3/4
mek gunz x 4
Morkanaut
haven't been able to get the prices exactly right yet and still waiting to hear whether or not various kultur troops can fit in transports or not from other kulturs. Ill rearrange as necessary. But ultimately im looking to use the deff rollas to hit large monsters and bring them down. The morkanaut protects the units with KFF while the troops inside shoot away. I have the SAG meks to shoot and use rerolls, dont really need the WT though.
kans i was thinking of placing in the tellyporta or maybe one of the Bonecrushas or both.
I didn't list all the equipment on the vehicles either because i would like put some type of shooting onto them.
let me know what you think, this list would be tailor fit to a 2k game as more info gets confirmed. But it has a 14CP pool to use for various units. 2-4 on tellyporta, maybe 1 for an extra relic. skarboys/ardboys and the remaining throughout the list.
the_scotsman wrote: yes, but the buff only lasts for the phase. So you have to kill something in the fight phase before you get to be 2+ to hit. Since I've got other good melee traits I'm good on trying to do melee with flash gitz.
What is the Freebooterz stratagem as it may be so crap I seem to have missed it?
Not sure why the Warlord trait is crap. Rerolling 1s in combat might not be amazing - but its not the worst thing in the world if you can charge a few things in together. The relic is a bit more questionable but even then it might be situationally useful. Morale is a bit of an odd one since its usually not a problem unless almost everyone's dead.
+1 to hit starts to make shooting options quite efficient - as while shooting twice might offset things, a 50% increase in output beats 16%. And you get a 25% melee boost potential too.
I think its going to come down to army. Obviously doesn't help versus Knights/heavily Knight leaning soups. Most other armies though are various shades of MSU. There are usually going to be some units you can bully.
Weazel wrote: Kinda disappointed with many of the changes. I have nearly 3000 points of Orks and most of the stuff I own is nerfed one way or the other and seems that everything I don't already own have received some buffs. So I'm looking at about 200€ to dish out to make a decent list. Not really sure if it's worth the bother really, already spent a small fortune building my army.
Guess I'll just try out the stuff that I have and if it's hot garbage it's probably time to rage quit.
Life tip: Doom & Gloom is better than optimism, saves you from a lot of disappointment.
After thinking about it a bit, I feel this is codex is probably a well-written one, in that our best stuff got worse, and our worst stuff got better. Things got more evened out and balanced, and that's probably what a well-written codex is supposed to do.
Now, deep down, I know we were all hoping for a codex along the lines of DE or IG where everything got cheaper AND better, but in truth, that's not a good way to write a codex.
I came to the same conclusion when shoving around models in my drafts. A mechanized list has very little use for boyz since units of 12/20 don't do a lot.
In the codex every tenth boy gets to take Tankbusta bombs for 0 points. That suddenly makes boyz semi-decent against heavy armor if you can get them close.
Hitting on 5s with 6" range? Can you even use them within 1" any more?
Its also a grenade, not an assault weapon. And you can only throw one per unit. And it can't be used in combat.
So an MSU, IF and only if it gets within 6" during the movement phase, without an advance move, but not within 1", you may throw a single D3 tankbusta bomb hitting on 5s, for about a 2/3 chance on average of a single S8 Ap-2 hit. Wowwww.
The advantage of the tankbusta bombs has been severely overstated, I feel like by people who haven't play tested or seriously thought about their use. There's a reason both tankbusta bombs and stikkbombs are free.
Consider, instead of using the tankbusta bombs , that you move your full movement characteristic, advance to the full distance allowed by the die roll, then use Waaagh to assault. Profit.
I'd like to see a batrep where a tankbusta bomb actually gets used
Weazel wrote: Kinda disappointed with many of the changes. I have nearly 3000 points of Orks and most of the stuff I own is nerfed one way or the other and seems that everything I don't already own have received some buffs. So I'm looking at about 200€ to dish out to make a decent list. Not really sure if it's worth the bother really, already spent a small fortune building my army.
Guess I'll just try out the stuff that I have and if it's hot garbage it's probably time to rage quit.
Life tip: Doom & Gloom is better than optimism, saves you from a lot of disappointment.
After thinking about it a bit, I feel this is codex is probably a well-written one, in that our best stuff got worse, and our worst stuff got better. Things got more evened out and balanced, and that's probably what a well-written codex is supposed to do.
Now, deep down, I know we were all hoping for a codex along the lines of DE or IG where everything got cheaper AND better, but in truth, that's not a good way to write a codex.
Weazel wrote: Kinda disappointed with many of the changes. I have nearly 3000 points of Orks and most of the stuff I own is nerfed one way or the other and seems that everything I don't already own have received some buffs. So I'm looking at about 200€ to dish out to make a decent list. Not really sure if it's worth the bother really, already spent a small fortune building my army.
Guess I'll just try out the stuff that I have and if it's hot garbage it's probably time to rage quit.
Life tip: Doom & Gloom is better than optimism, saves you from a lot of disappointment.
After thinking about it a bit, I feel this is codex is probably a well-written one, in that our best stuff got worse, and our worst stuff got better. Things got more evened out and balanced, and that's probably what a well-written codex is supposed to do.
Now, deep down, I know we were all hoping for a codex along the lines of DE or IG where everything got cheaper AND better, but in truth, that's not a good way to write a codex.
Would be nice to have once for a while middlepack codex rather than bottom tier even if you are willing to pay hundreds to rebuild army to what gw wants you to buy next.
Weazel wrote: Kinda disappointed with many of the changes. I have nearly 3000 points of Orks and most of the stuff I own is nerfed one way or the other and seems that everything I don't already own have received some buffs. So I'm looking at about 200€ to dish out to make a decent list. Not really sure if it's worth the bother really, already spent a small fortune building my army.
Guess I'll just try out the stuff that I have and if it's hot garbage it's probably time to rage quit.
Life tip: Doom & Gloom is better than optimism, saves you from a lot of disappointment.
After thinking about it a bit, I feel this is codex is probably a well-written one, in that our best stuff got worse, and our worst stuff got better. Things got more evened out and balanced, and that's probably what a well-written codex is supposed to do.
Now, deep down, I know we were all hoping for a codex along the lines of DE or IG where everything got cheaper AND better, but in truth, that's not a good way to write a codex.
Agreed on this.
End of the day I tend to agree. Green tide is cool on paper but an engaging and fun playing experience it is not. Setting up hundreds of guys gets old fast. I'm just not in a life situation where I have a ton of time to assemble and paint a bunch of new models so I'm just slightly irritated.
haven't been able to get the prices exactly right yet and still waiting to hear whether or not various kultur troops can fit in transports or not from other kulturs. Ill rearrange as necessary. But ultimately im looking to use the deff rollas to hit large monsters and bring them down. The morkanaut protects the units with KFF while the troops inside shoot away. I have the SAG meks to shoot and use rerolls, dont really need the WT though.
kans i was thinking of placing in the tellyporta or maybe one of the Bonecrushas or both.
I didn't list all the equipment on the vehicles either because i would like put some type of shooting onto them.
let me know what you think, this list would be tailor fit to a 2k game as more info gets confirmed. But it has a 14CP pool to use for various units. 2-4 on tellyporta, maybe 1 for an extra relic. skarboys/ardboys and the remaining throughout the list.
Kans cant be in the tellyporta because they are grots and cant use strats on grots unless specifically stated
PiñaColada wrote: Pretty sure the tankbusta reroll 1's is incorrect. Strikingscorpion said it in his video but I think he misspoke. No-one else has mentioned it as far as I know.
Which just goes to show that no reviewer knows or cares about orks. Any ork player would be damn sure to check that.
Ok I had seen this a few times and figured it was true. If thats the case then tankbustas with RR all hits and DDD are REALLY good. Because with RR all failed hits.. even those newly generated rokkits get to RR. wow.
PiñaColada wrote: Pretty sure the tankbusta reroll 1's is incorrect. Strikingscorpion said it in his video but I think he misspoke. No-one else has mentioned it as far as I know.
Which just goes to show that no reviewer knows or cares about orks. Any ork player would be damn sure to check that.
I don't understand your point. I'm saying I don't think they changed, why would a reviewer call out a change that never happened? Just looking at the war of sigmar review they state that tankbustas reroll misses against vehicles. The whole reroll 1's was SS82 just accidentally saying the wrong thing, he even said that they're rerolling misses later in that review
The idea of Nobz versus boyz is an interesting one. Comparing the units directly to each other is interesting.
Unit size
Nobz: Pros
Smaller foot print makes it easier to hide, get into cover, LOS block, slip through cracks and get everyone to attack. Less vulnerable to morale
Cons: Far less board control. Worse ability to tie things up.
Ork Boy pros
Lots of board control. Great ability to tie things up. Great for objective controlling.
Cons: Vulnerable to morale without other big mobs or support.. Easy to tie up due to size. Hard to claim cover.
Combat killyness:
Each nob base with dual choppas has five attacks at s5 for 14 points. Each boy (choppa slugga) had a crappy shooting attack and 3 attacks at s4. For the points you can get two boyz for two crappy slugga shots you may never use and 6 s4 attacks. 6S4 versus 5S5 is largely enemy dependent, but I'd probably take the S5. For more points you can upgrade the nobz with big choppas to make them actually scary with S7 Ap-1 2dmg attacks or take an even cheaper route and trade the 1 attack for -2 ap on a powa stabba.
Durability:
Each nob has a 4+ save and two wounds giving them a literal half decent chance to save a wound where as boyz really get the shaft here. However as any Primaris player will never shut up about (myself included) there are a lot of 2d or d3 damage out there which really hurts the value of the nobz, but does not bother the boyz at all. Conversely the boyz lose effectiveness for each wound they take where as the nobz only start to care after every two and can save some of them.
Nobz also require a transport or to be deep struck to claim value due to their point cost. Boyz do not. Boyz fill up troop slots where Nobz do not meaning boyz will lend themselves to CP better.
I think it's a very interesting question as to which you might want to go heavy on. Traditionally it's easily been boyz, but with their price increase really being felt (driving up my lists by 100+ points) Nobz might find a way to sneak in as the primary force inside transports like battlewagons and trukks.
On the topic of tankbustas, did anyone noticed that with the more stikk bomb strat you can have a unit of 10 tanks bustas throw 10 tankbusta bombs. 10d3 shots that get dakka dakka dakka on?
Weazel wrote: Kinda disappointed with many of the changes. I have nearly 3000 points of Orks and most of the stuff I own is nerfed one way or the other and seems that everything I don't already own have received some buffs. So I'm looking at about 200€ to dish out to make a decent list. Not really sure if it's worth the bother really, already spent a small fortune building my army.
Guess I'll just try out the stuff that I have and if it's hot garbage it's probably time to rage quit.
Life tip: Doom & Gloom is better than optimism, saves you from a lot of disappointment.
After thinking about it a bit, I feel this is codex is probably a well-written one, in that our best stuff got worse, and our worst stuff got better. Things got more evened out and balanced, and that's probably what a well-written codex is supposed to do.
Now, deep down, I know we were all hoping for a codex along the lines of DE or IG where everything got cheaper AND better, but in truth, that's not a good way to write a codex.
Agreed on this.
End of the day I tend to agree. Green tide is cool on paper but an engaging and fun playing experience it is not. Setting up hundreds of guys gets old fast. I'm just not in a life situation where I have a ton of time to assemble and paint a bunch of new models so I'm just slightly irritated.
Agreed, it wasnt fun, but I dont think it was broken enough that it needed to be nerfed. That being said its not that big of a nerf and is still playable. We all wish boyz stayed 7 points, but I think in CA they would have gone up in points anyway as im expecting a lot of cheap infantry to for other armies (hopefully)
Hadn't thought about it that way before. Going from 6pts to 7pts makes a 200pt difference to a big green tide at 2K.
I know the maths is obvious, but thinking about what you could get for that 200pts really hammers home how strong the nerf is despite all that the boyz gained from this codex
Tibs Ironblood wrote: The idea of Nobz versus boyz is an interesting one. Comparing the units directly to each other is interesting.
Unit size
Nobz: Pros
Smaller foot print makes it easier to hide, get into cover, LOS block, slip through cracks and get everyone to attack. Less vulnerable to morale
Cons: Far less board control. Worse ability to tie things up.
Ork Boy pros
Lots of board control. Great ability to tie things up. Great for objective controlling.
Cons: Vulnerable to morale without other big mobs or support.. Easy to tie up due to size. Hard to claim cover.
Combat killyness:
Each nob base with dual choppas has five attacks at s5 for 14 points. Each boy (choppa slugga) had a crappy shooting attack and 3 attacks at s4. For the points you can get two boyz for two crappy slugga shots you may never use and 6 s4 attacks. 6S4 versus 5S5 is largely enemy dependent, but I'd probably take the S5. For more points you can upgrade the nobz with big choppas to make them actually scary with S7 Ap-1 2dmg attacks or take an even cheaper route and trade the 1 attack for -2 ap on a powa stabba.
Durability:
Each nob has a 4+ save and two wounds giving them a literal half decent chance to save a wound where as boyz really get the shaft here. However as any Primaris player will never shut up about (myself included) there are a lot of 2d or d3 damage out there which really hurts the value of the nobz, but does not bother the boyz at all. Conversely the boyz lose effectiveness for each wound they take where as the nobz only start to care after every two and can save some of them.
Nobz also require a transport or to be deep struck to claim value due to their point cost. Boyz do not. Boyz fill up troop slots where Nobz do not meaning boyz will lend themselves to CP better.
I think it's a very interesting question as to which you might want to go heavy on. Traditionally it's easily been boyz, but with their price increase really being felt (driving up my lists by 100+ points) Nobz might find a way to sneak in as the primary force inside transports like battlewagons and trukks.
Death skulls nobs = objective secured nobs
Also, ammo runts say hai to 2 damage shots. 2 ammo runts plus nobs fit beautifully in a bonebreaka or trukk. Just saying.
I absolutely agree on the death skull nobz having some good bonuses to them. They would be the go to for physical transport where as evil sunz would take it for deep strike based mobility. The ammo runts are an auto take I agree, but there are only two at 10 so that won't really hold up to even a single hellblaster squad or ravager with a bad attitude.
Glitcha wrote: On the topic of tankbustas, did anyone noticed that with the more stikk bomb strat you can have a unit of 10 tanks bustas throw 10 tankbusta bombs. 10d3 shots that get dakka dakka dakka on?
This will be incredible however, you gotta remember the 6" range on the grenade.
Glitcha wrote: On the topic of tankbustas, did anyone noticed that with the more stikk bomb strat you can have a unit of 10 tanks bustas throw 10 tankbusta bombs. 10d3 shots that get dakka dakka dakka on?
This will be incredible however, you gotta remember the 6" range on the grenade.
So? You can safely be in a trukk and do this or a battlewagon or big trakk.
Glitcha wrote: On the topic of tankbustas, did anyone noticed that with the more stikk bomb strat you can have a unit of 10 tanks bustas throw 10 tankbusta bombs. 10d3 shots that get dakka dakka dakka on?
This will be incredible however, you gotta remember the 6" range on the grenade.
So? You can safely be in a trukk and do this or a battlewagon or big trakk.
Im just saying I usually try not to get that close with my bustas even inside a trukk/BW. If the decision wasn't made by me then that strategem could see great use.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: I absolutely agree on the death skull nobz having some good bonuses to them. They would be the go to for physical transport where as evil sunz would take it for deep strike based mobility. The ammo runts are an auto take I agree, but there are only two at 10 so that won't really hold up to even a single hellblaster squad or ravager with a bad attitude.
True, but that's what the bonebreaka is for
Make that hellblasta squad into deffrolla paint, soak the overwatch, then say hello to my big Choppa
Seriously, a bonebreaka can mulch a primaris combat squad.
One round of combat with a full size unit of nobs would not go well for them either.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: Nobz also require a transport or to be deep struck to claim value due to their point cost. Boyz do not. Boyz fill up troop slots where Nobz do not meaning boyz will lend themselves to CP better.
The rest of your post is great, but I disagree on this.
1 nob is 14 points, just like two boyz. If you are shot by weapons with 2 or 3 damage, what's shooting your buggies, transports and mek guns in the meantime? The armor save also works against most D2 weapons, even against plasma you still get a 6+ save. They are straight up more durable than boyz are - even if you footslog them across the board. Throw in a grot screen and nobz easily outperform boyz, transport or not.
Glitcha wrote: On the topic of tankbustas, did anyone noticed that with the more stikk bomb strat you can have a unit of 10 tanks bustas throw 10 tankbusta bombs. 10d3 shots that get dakka dakka dakka on?
This will be incredible however, you gotta remember the 6" range on the grenade.
So? You can safely be in a trukk and do this or a battlewagon or big trakk.
Im just saying I usually try not to get that close with my bustas even inside a trukk/BW. If the decision wasn't made by me then that strategem could see great use.
I agree probably would not get that close unless the plan was to try and kill that unit. You could make this even worse if you are bad moons. you could make it a nasty combo by using more stikk bombs, more dakka and showin off. Throw 10d3 tankbusta bombs followed up by 10 rokkets. looking for 5's and 6's. Rerolling. Average on 10d3 is 20.67.Average number of hits with more dakka and reroll all fails is 21.67. 20.67 wounds. average unsave wounds is 9.83. Average dmg would be 33.8. That is just the bombs on target that is T7 or less with a 3+ save base.
Thinking about a 10 man big choppa trukk nob group.
What's the best clan for it though? 2 points a pop for a kustom shooter seems like 40 shots would be nice, but then you'd need to be evil suns to advance and not hit on 6s right.. bettwr to dpible down on melee as goffs?
Unless the intended purpose is to deal 2 damage per attack. Outside of that context, the power stabba does more damage to single wound models, and dual Choppa isn't far behind for the quite reasonable price of free.
I don't see why you would think of going Goff. The entire point of Goff is Skarboys. Nobs are not skarboys.
Aside from the other benefits, which are sauce, death skulls nobs have objective secured. Evil sunz are faster, more reliable charge and you can put out dakka while you advance. I don't see what goffs does for nobs.
I would keep them cheap and outfit them with just enough wargear they need to kill what you're trying to kill.
PiñaColada wrote: Pretty sure the tankbusta reroll 1's is incorrect. Strikingscorpion said it in his video but I think he misspoke. No-one else has mentioned it as far as I know.
Which just goes to show that no reviewer knows or cares about orks. Any ork player would be damn sure to check that.
I don't understand your point. I'm saying I don't think they changed, why would a reviewer call out a change that never happened? Just looking at the war of sigmar review they state that tankbustas reroll misses against vehicles. The whole reroll 1's was SS82 just accidentally saying the wrong thing, he even said that they're rerolling misses later in that review
Any ork player that heard themselves say "tankbustas rerolling on 1s" would @#$% themselves and check what they just read VERY carefully. Then they would either say "omfg HUGE nerf to one of our only decent units" or "WHEW. for a minute there I thought the worst" and clarify it to their audience.
No True Ork would never leave something like this hanging and panic the entire ork playing world.
DoomMouse wrote: Hadn't thought about it that way before. Going from 6pts to 7pts makes a 200pt difference to a big green tide at 2K.
I know the maths is obvious, but thinking about what you could get for that 200pts really hammers home how strong the nerf is despite all that the boyz gained from this codex
yeah thats what most people dont get (including GW ithink) its a frakking 15% point increase. now keep in mind we only have 2 troop choices... one of em cant even use 99% of the strats and traits...
so yeah... one or two 30blobs of boyz may still viable to jump around... other than that... i guess its byebye horde
Tibs Ironblood wrote: Nobz also require a transport or to be deep struck to claim value due to their point cost. Boyz do not. Boyz fill up troop slots where Nobz do not meaning boyz will lend themselves to CP better.
The rest of your post is great, but I disagree on this.
1 nob is 14 points, just like two boyz. If you are shot by weapons with 2 or 3 damage, what's shooting your buggies, transports and mek guns in the meantime? The armor save also works against most D2 weapons, even against plasma you still get a 6+ save. They are straight up more durable than boyz are - even if you footslog them across the board. Throw in a grot screen and nobz easily outperform boyz, transport or not.
If you are footslogging IMO you are required to go evil sunz to get anywhere in a timely manner. I really do find it hard to imagine footslogging 14 point model+ units that are less durable than Primaris which already die in droves. I really do think investing in trukks or battlewagons are worth it for the sole purpose of keeping those nobz alive, getting to the enemy faster and allowing to pick something other than evil sunz. I mean maybe you are right and footslogging units of nobs could work, but I am skeptical. Either way it goes without saying a KFF is needed for the nobz or the trukks.
For 200 points, you could almost buy a kuuuuustom boooom blastaaaa! Plus a Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy!
Guys, just think of what you gained!
Instead of taking boys, take deffkoptas (huge points reduction!), Shamalam Dingwagons, dakkajets, Killa kans, mega armored big meks, trukks, and shockjump dragstas! Paint them all yellow (since everyone loves bananas!) And just try NOT to win a tournament!
I'm fine with the 1pt increase on boyz. Shootas are free now, we got dakka dakka dakka now, AND we got access to tankbusta bombs! That's before you add in the buffs from the klan kulturs.
TedNugent wrote: Why pay for big Choppas on every model, though.
Unless the intended purpose is to deal 2 damage per attack. Outside of that context, the power stabba does more damage to single wound models, and dual Choppa isn't far behind for the quite reasonable price of free.
I don't see why you would think of going Goff. The entire point of Goff is Skarboys. Nobs are not skarboys.
Aside from the other benefits, which are sauce, death skulls nobs have objective secured. Evil sunz are faster, more reliable charge and you can put out dakka while you advance. I don't see what goffs does for nobs.
I would keep them cheap and outfit them with just enough wargear they need to kill what you're trying to kill.
So yeah when it comes to optimising the list I might drop a couple of big choppas. The dual choppa option is interesting but I'm not trying to replace all my boyz just yet, and if I'm riding in a trukk I'd rather have some shooting. 10 nobz with dual choppas get 1 extra s5 attack, but you could pay 20 points and the squad gets 40 s4 shots...
gungo wrote: If you don’t want to repaint everything they sell colored base rings you clip onto the bases that allow you to not only differentiate clans but units. So like all orks w blue bases are deathskull and all red ones are evil suns and all yellow are bad moons. It gets a bit trickier with vehicles but odds are all vehicles are part of one detachment anyway. The rings fit 24 or 32mm bases.
Interesting idea. Although I might go back to 2nd Edition and adding swappable back-banners on the Nobz and vehicles.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: The tank busta bombs alone make it worth it! can you use the grenade strat using the tank busta bomsb on boys units?
yes, you can.
I just had never even thought about that combo until now. 1ppm and 1 cp to toss ten krak grenades is a REALLY good bargain. Especially if you can surround a transport and then blow it up, killing everyone inside.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: The tank busta bombs alone make it worth it! can you use the grenade strat using the tank busta bomsb on boys units?
yes, you can.
I just had never even thought about that combo until now. 1ppm and 1 cp to toss ten krak grenades is a REALLY good bargain. Especially if you can surround a transport and then blow it up, killing everyone inside.
Except you can only take 3 TB Bombs per 30 boyz. Mob up once and you have 4, with the nob and 35 ablative wounds. Still, it's only 4 grenades.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: The idea of Nobz versus boyz is an interesting one. Comparing the units directly to each other is interesting.
Unit size
Nobz: Pros
Smaller foot print makes it easier to hide, get into cover, LOS block, slip through cracks and get everyone to attack. Less vulnerable to morale
Cons: Far less board control. Worse ability to tie things up.
Ork Boy pros
Lots of board control. Great ability to tie things up. Great for objective controlling.
Cons: Vulnerable to morale without other big mobs or support.. Easy to tie up due to size. Hard to claim cover.
Combat killyness:
Each nob base with dual choppas has five attacks at s5 for 14 points. Each boy (choppa slugga) had a crappy shooting attack and 3 attacks at s4. For the points you can get two boyz for two crappy slugga shots you may never use and 6 s4 attacks. 6S4 versus 5S5 is largely enemy dependent, but I'd probably take the S5. For more points you can upgrade the nobz with big choppas to make them actually scary with S7 Ap-1 2dmg attacks or take an even cheaper route and trade the 1 attack for -2 ap on a powa stabba.
Durability:
Each nob has a 4+ save and two wounds giving them a literal half decent chance to save a wound where as boyz really get the shaft here. However as any Primaris player will never shut up about (myself included) there are a lot of 2d or d3 damage out there which really hurts the value of the nobz, but does not bother the boyz at all. Conversely the boyz lose effectiveness for each wound they take where as the nobz only start to care after every two and can save some of them.
Nobz also require a transport or to be deep struck to claim value due to their point cost. Boyz do not. Boyz fill up troop slots where Nobz do not meaning boyz will lend themselves to CP better.
I think it's a very interesting question as to which you might want to go heavy on. Traditionally it's easily been boyz, but with their price increase really being felt (driving up my lists by 100+ points) Nobz might find a way to sneak in as the primary force inside transports like battlewagons and trukks.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: Nobz also require a transport or to be deep struck to claim value due to their point cost. Boyz do not. Boyz fill up troop slots where Nobz do not meaning boyz will lend themselves to CP better.
The rest of your post is great, but I disagree on this.
1 nob is 14 points, just like two boyz. If you are shot by weapons with 2 or 3 damage, what's shooting your buggies, transports and mek guns in the meantime? The armor save also works against most D2 weapons, even against plasma you still get a 6+ save. They are straight up more durable than boyz are - even if you footslog them across the board. Throw in a grot screen and nobz easily outperform boyz, transport or not.
If you are footslogging IMO you are required to go evil sunz to get anywhere in a timely manner. I really do find it hard to imagine footslogging 14 point model+ units that are less durable than Primaris which already die in droves. I really do think investing in trukks or battlewagons are worth it for the sole purpose of keeping those nobz alive, getting to the enemy faster and allowing to pick something other than evil sunz. I mean maybe you are right and footslogging units of nobs could work, but I am skeptical. Either way it goes without saying a KFF is needed for the nobz or the trukks.
If those nobz get killed, the same amount of points invested in boyz will get killed up to twice as fast. Because nobz have a 4+ armor save and boyz have 6+. Nobz are more durable per point than boyz now.
I fail to see how nobz need a transport to get somewhere but boyz don't.
gungo wrote: If you don’t want to repaint everything they sell colored base rings you clip onto the bases that allow you to not only differentiate clans but units. So like all orks w blue bases are deathskull and all red ones are evil suns and all yellow are bad moons. It gets a bit trickier with vehicles but odds are all vehicles are part of one detachment anyway. The rings fit 24 or 32mm bases.
Interesting idea. Although I might go back to 2nd Edition and adding swappable back-banners on the Nobz and vehicles.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: Nobz also require a transport or to be deep struck to claim value due to their point cost. Boyz do not. Boyz fill up troop slots where Nobz do not meaning boyz will lend themselves to CP better.
The rest of your post is great, but I disagree on this.
1 nob is 14 points, just like two boyz. If you are shot by weapons with 2 or 3 damage, what's shooting your buggies, transports and mek guns in the meantime? The armor save also works against most D2 weapons, even against plasma you still get a 6+ save. They are straight up more durable than boyz are - even if you footslog them across the board. Throw in a grot screen and nobz easily outperform boyz, transport or not.
If you are footslogging IMO you are required to go evil sunz to get anywhere in a timely manner. I really do find it hard to imagine footslogging 14 point model+ units that are less durable than Primaris which already die in droves. I really do think investing in trukks or battlewagons are worth it for the sole purpose of keeping those nobz alive, getting to the enemy faster and allowing to pick something other than evil sunz. I mean maybe you are right and footslogging units of nobs could work, but I am skeptical. Either way it goes without saying a KFF is needed for the nobz or the trukks.
If those nobz get killed, the same amount of points invested in boyz will get killed up to twice as fast. Because nobz have a 4+ armor save and boyz have 6+. Nobz are more durable per point than boyz now.
I fail to see how nobz need a transport to get somewhere but boyz don't.
This actually makes sense. I wonder what would happen if you ran a squad of 15 dual-choppa nobs next to 30 boyz...who would get shot first?
My main reason to prefer boyz is for trying to fill out a battalion or brigade, and for objective secured.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: Nobz also require a transport or to be deep struck to claim value due to their point cost. Boyz do not. Boyz fill up troop slots where Nobz do not meaning boyz will lend themselves to CP better.
The rest of your post is great, but I disagree on this.
1 nob is 14 points, just like two boyz. If you are shot by weapons with 2 or 3 damage, what's shooting your buggies, transports and mek guns in the meantime? The armor save also works against most D2 weapons, even against plasma you still get a 6+ save. They are straight up more durable than boyz are - even if you footslog them across the board. Throw in a grot screen and nobz easily outperform boyz, transport or not.
If you are footslogging IMO you are required to go evil sunz to get anywhere in a timely manner. I really do find it hard to imagine footslogging 14 point model+ units that are less durable than Primaris which already die in droves. I really do think investing in trukks or battlewagons are worth it for the sole purpose of keeping those nobz alive, getting to the enemy faster and allowing to pick something other than evil sunz. I mean maybe you are right and footslogging units of nobs could work, but I am skeptical. Either way it goes without saying a KFF is needed for the nobz or the trukks.
If those nobz get killed, the same amount of points invested in boyz will get killed up to twice as fast. Because nobz have a 4+ armor save and boyz have 6+. Nobz are more durable per point than boyz now.
I fail to see how nobz need a transport to get somewhere but boyz don't.
Point on the armor save: If you are running KFFs (you probably should be) any time you are hit by ap their save is the same at that point outside of cover. The 4+ is better 100% and works in combat so I am not discounting that, but pointing out they won't always be packing a better save than the 7pt boyz. The point investment in nobz is worse against d2 or D3 weapons because their wounds mean literally nothing (2dmg plus) or mean nothing 66% of the time when hit by d3. These weapon types are not exactly uncommon and will reap massive value on nobz. Against plasma, a dissie or battle cannon they are the exact same levels of screwed as boyz are, but twice so due to their point values. It is for these reasons I think a transport is always worth it for them due to them being relatively cheap (51 or so points for a trukk now I think?) or relatively useful (Battlewagon with deff rolla). You are not hurting your list by including them either which way. If you footslog your nobz in the best case scenario they are moving 6+D6+1 so turn 3 combat is likely. If they are in a battlewagon or a trukk (evil sunz) they are going 13+d6+1 with the free 3 inch disembark you are not unlikely to get a turn 2 charge with them. Or heck if you want you can take another clan tactic like death skulls and still be in the turn 2 charge ballpark if they take a transport.
That or you can always DS them T2 as evil sunz for a 72% (I think?) charge. It is for these reasons that I think nobz are worth investing in a transport/DS for due mitigate their weaknesses to multiple damage weapons and also reducing your number of drops.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: Nobz also require a transport or to be deep struck to claim value due to their point cost. Boyz do not. Boyz fill up troop slots where Nobz do not meaning boyz will lend themselves to CP better.
The rest of your post is great, but I disagree on this.
1 nob is 14 points, just like two boyz. If you are shot by weapons with 2 or 3 damage, what's shooting your buggies, transports and mek guns in the meantime? The armor save also works against most D2 weapons, even against plasma you still get a 6+ save. They are straight up more durable than boyz are - even if you footslog them across the board. Throw in a grot screen and nobz easily outperform boyz, transport or not.
If you are footslogging IMO you are required to go evil sunz to get anywhere in a timely manner. I really do find it hard to imagine footslogging 14 point model+ units that are less durable than Primaris which already die in droves. I really do think investing in trukks or battlewagons are worth it for the sole purpose of keeping those nobz alive, getting to the enemy faster and allowing to pick something other than evil sunz. I mean maybe you are right and footslogging units of nobs could work, but I am skeptical. Either way it goes without saying a KFF is needed for the nobz or the trukks.
If those nobz get killed, the same amount of points invested in boyz will get killed up to twice as fast. Because nobz have a 4+ armor save and boyz have 6+. Nobz are more durable per point than boyz now.
I fail to see how nobz need a transport to get somewhere but boyz don't.
This actually makes sense. I wonder what would happen if you ran a squad of 15 dual-choppa nobs next to 30 boyz...who would get shot first?
My main reason to prefer boyz is for trying to fill out a battalion or brigade, and for objective secured.
You would always shoot the nobz if you have multiple damage.
It should come with everything being released in the codex, let me know if I'm missing anything and I'll make some changes.
While I was working on this some dude came forward with the codex and gave me a hand, so I've even got some unknown goodies (WAAAGH powers, Battlewagon variant rules).
It should come with everything being released in the codex, let me know if I'm missing anything and I'll make some changes.
While I was working on this some dude came forward with the codex and gave me a hand, so I've even got some unknown goodies (WAAAGH powers, Battlewagon variant rules).
Keep up da WAAAAGH LADS!
Good job Eonfuzz.
For what it is worth, the official BS file is going through a round of QA right now, and should be released in a few days.
It should come with everything being released in the codex, let me know if I'm missing anything and I'll make some changes.
While I was working on this some dude came forward with the codex and gave me a hand, so I've even got some unknown goodies (WAAAGH powers, Battlewagon variant rules).
Keep up da WAAAAGH LADS!
Good job Eonfuzz.
For what it is worth, the official BS file is going through a round of QA right now, and should be released in a few days.
Goshdarnit, ohwell. At least it's something to use before release.
It should come with everything being released in the codex, let me know if I'm missing anything and I'll make some changes.
While I was working on this some dude came forward with the codex and gave me a hand, so I've even got some unknown goodies (WAAAGH powers, Battlewagon variant rules).
Small list with Generic warboss:
Which clan and warlord trait would work out best?
I have found that you really want to get the warboss stuck in, but with only a 4+ save he is a little fragile. I was thinking of doing a Bad Moons one with the 4++ armor. With the T5,4++ he would be pretty tanky. Could be paired with shoota boys and skorcha nobz for the shoot twice strategem.
Evil sunz for the fall back and charge again trait paired with the Bonebreaka and Dreads? Maybe some scorcha loadouts for close range shooting phase.
Or Brutal but Kunnin' for rerolling the misses on a generic claw
Shrapnelbait wrote: Small list with Generic warboss:
Which clan and warlord trait would work out best?
I have found that you really want to get the warboss stuck in, but with only a 4+ save he is a little fragile. I was thinking of doing a Bad Moons one with the 4++ armor. With the T5,4++ he would be pretty tanky. Could be paired with shoota boys and skorcha nobz for the shoot twice strategem.
Evil sunz for the fall back and charge again trait paired with the Bonebreaka and Dreads? Maybe some scorcha loadouts for close range shooting phase.
Or Brutal but Kunnin' for rerolling the misses on a generic claw
If you are going bad moons, you are cheating yourself of you dont bring tankbustas for the shoot twice,stratagem
TedNugent wrote: For 200 points, you could almost buy a kuuuuustom boooom blastaaaa! Plus a Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy!
Guys, just think of what you gained!
Instead of taking boys, take deffkoptas (huge points reduction!), Shamalam Dingwagons, dakkajets, Killa kans, mega armored big meks, trukks, and shockjump dragstas! Paint them all yellow (since everyone loves bananas!) And just try NOT to win a tournament!
a) that's fun. GW invalidating entire armies and forcing to buy hundreds of euros new models
b) you would still be at bottom tier. Have fun.
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Glitcha wrote: I'm fine with the 1pt increase on boyz. Shootas are free now, we got dakka dakka dakka now, AND we got access to tankbusta bombs! That's before you add in the buffs from the klan kulturs.
Shootas were always free. DDD sounds better than it is for boyz. Tankbustas are 1 per 10(and have fun buying new boxes if you dont' have those models) and not THAT awesome and klan kulturs etc are free so the 1pts is flat out nerf.
I just had never even thought about that combo until now. 1ppm and 1 cp to toss ten krak grenades is a REALLY good bargain. Especially if you can surround a transport and then blow it up, killing everyone inside.
Stickbomb!=krak bomb. S3. Wee! Tank busta bomb is 1 per 10 so for squad of 30(210 pts with zero upgrades) you get 3 of them. 210 pts and 1CP with BS5+! WOOOOO! What an AWESOME deal.
Oh wait others do that thing better. IG gets 10 krak grenades for 40 pts as well. 40<210.
I've been building a grot army for years as a background project. I've got 180 Grots, 8 kannons, 1 AOBR warboss, 3 runtherds and 3 painboys (former runtherds).
Is there any chance I'll be able to run my Grot list with the new codex?
Hello!
Is there a reason to play Freebooterz other then fluff?
Are there any useful builds for stuff that didn't got into Codex like MA Warboss and Biker Warboss?
Can someone confirm if our index only options get the same clan rules as their codex counterparts? If not it invalidates like 3 lists I've been working on. It also pisses me off that in forced to pay the MA Mek tax for a KFF, who is slow as feth and can't keep up with my bikes/buggies etc
Related, I wonder if Zhadsnark will get the Speedwaaaaagh! rule.
Unless you're taking a tide of skarboyz I agree that Nobs make sense over Boys. Like Jidmah says, if you have enough other multi wound models the opponent has a problem of target priority. Taking dual choppas is massive. I think it actually ekes out Power Stabbas too as a much more optimal choice. I preferred the singular extra attack against most targets but 2 extra attacks? For no more points?! Carnage. Do we have 100% confirmation of this?
Buggies, Koptas and bikes can move - shoot - move now which is interesting. If my thinking on the advance rule is correct (in that it modifies your movement for the rest of the round) using Evil Sunz this puts their movement at 32 + 2d6+2 if you advance for bikes and 46" for Koptas! Will be good for sneaky objective grabbing and blitzing out of sight after unloading. If a SJD rolls a shokk tunnel result am I right in thinking you'd be able to use it twice?! Like teleport upfield, blast a vehicle then teleport back with stratagem?! Gotta go fast!
Blndmage wrote:I've been building a grot army for years as a background project. I've got 180 Grots, 8 kannons, 1 AOBR warboss, 3 runtherds and 3 painboys (former runtherds).
Is there any chance I'll be able to run my Grot list with the new codex?
Grots are solid for meat shielding purposes and filling troop choices, but not worth much beyond that. The kannons would be great if you run them as mek guns instead.
Azhday wrote:Hello!
Is there a reason to play Freebooterz other then fluff?
Are there any useful builds for stuff that didn't got into Codex like MA Warboss and Biker Warboss?
Freebooterz have a solid tactic you can build around for a versatile non-specific build because they don't have any direct bonuses to shooting like Bad Moonz. They're not awful by any stretch, but I don't see them being a meta pick.
The biker bosses I see being really solid because they didn't get a price hike in the codex like normal warbosses did and have access to great relics. I think they will be featured a lot.
Blndmage wrote: I've been building a grot army for years as a background project. I've got 180 Grots, 8 kannons, 1 AOBR warboss, 3 runtherds and 3 painboys (former runtherds).
Is there any chance I'll be able to run my Grot list with the new codex?
You could use another HQ or three, but you are probably not going to be worse off than with the index. If you count your kannons as smasha guns, they would probably even do decent.
If you want to build those models into a real army, you should probably make them snakebite, since the warboss can then keep many gretchin in line at the same time.
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Azhday wrote: Hello!
Is there a reason to play Freebooterz other then fluff?
Are there any useful builds for stuff that didn't got into Codex like MA Warboss and Biker Warboss?
Freebootas should work pretty well with many shooting units. Badrukk, SAG, dakka jets, lootas, flash gits, boosta blasta and scrapjets all have potential to finish off a unit all by themselves and them provide all other units of your army with +1 to BS for the rest of the shooting phase. In combat just have your warboss or a unit of nobz go first to wipe out something and then have all others get a free Waaagh! Banner.
Their warlord trait and relic aren't awesome, but the generic ones are good enough not to bother. In general freebootas are probably not a tournament winning choice, but they aren't terrible either.
That's REAL relevant when we are talking about 8th ed where they have always been free.
Might just as well say with space marines "we arent' 30 pts per tactical marine anymore! Space marines got soooo huge boost in the codex!"
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Azhday wrote: Hello!
Is there a reason to play Freebooterz other then fluff?
Are there any useful builds for stuff that didn't got into Codex like MA Warboss and Biker Warboss?
If you build the one build that clan works with yes. You need to have some big powerful guns to ensure you get the +1 to hit for rest so build up with stuff like mek guns(which still trigger the bonus even if they don't get the +1 hit themselves), speed dragsta etc. Though doubtful how powerful gunline orks will build but that's how freebooters will play like.
An Actual Englishman wrote: Can someone confirm if our index only options get the same clan rules as their codex counterparts? If not it invalidates like 3 lists I've been working on. It also pisses me off that in forced to pay the MA Mek tax for a KFF, who is slow as feth and can't keep up with my bikes/buggies etc
Detachments get the kulture benefits if all models inside have the same <Klan>, so unless they have the GRETCHIN keyword, they would benefit from the clan rules.
Related, I wonder if Zhadsnark will get the Speedwaaaaagh! rule.
Remember how he was forgotten when the biker warboss got the ability to Waaagh! Bikes?
I wouldn't bet on it.
Unless you're taking a tide of skarboyz I agree that Nobs make sense over Boys. Like Jidmah says, if you have enough other multi wound models the opponent has a problem of target priority. Taking dual choppas is massive. I think it actually ekes out Power Stabbas too as a much more optimal choice. I preferred the singular extra attack against most targets but 2 extra attacks? For no more points?! Carnage. Do we have 100% confirmation of this?
Like 80% - multiple reviewers have mentioned this.
Buggies, Koptas and bikes can move - shoot - move now which is interesting. If my thinking on the advance rule is correct (in that it modifies your movement for the rest of the round) using Evil Sunz this puts their movement at 32 + 2d6+2 if you advance for bikes and 46" for Koptas! Will be good for sneaky objective grabbing and blitzing out of sight after unloading. If a SJD rolls a shokk tunnel result am I right in thinking you'd be able to use it twice?! Like teleport upfield, blast a vehicle then teleport back with stratagem?! Gotta go fast!
E -sp
I couldn't follow your math, but from tyranids we know that you only roll one advance roll per turn, and then add that to your movement stat for the rest of your turn.
For example, an evil suns kopta would move 14+2" and get a fixed 6+1" for 23" movement. When you move them again through stratagem, they just move another 23".
For bikes, it would move 14+2" plus d6+1". If you rolled a 3, that would be 20". When you move them again, they move another 20", you don't roll another d6.
Therefore, the shokkjump dragsta wouldn't jump again, since you don't roll another dice, but it would get the 4+ inches added to its second move.
I couldn't follow your math, but from tyranids we know that you only roll one advance roll per turn, and then add that to your movement stat for the rest of your turn.
For example, an evil suns kopta would move 14+2" and get a fixed 6+1" for 23" movement. When you move them again through stratagem, they just move another 23".
For bikes, it would move 14+2" plus d6+1". If you rolled a 3, that would be 20". When you move them again, they move another 20", you don't roll another d6.
Therefore, the shokkjump dragsta wouldn't jump again, since you don't roll another dice, but it would get the 4+ inches added to its second move.
Are you sure that doesn't mean he automatically advances then? Since he already rolled that 4+ before and now he moves in an identical manner again, wouldn't that 4+ be "activated" again?
Edit: By automatically advance I mean auutomatically activate the shokk tunnel
I'm planning to create a deepstrike fest. 10 manz and 3 dreads. That's no less than 795 pts (no point to ds weaker dreads) but that might be ok for 1500 pt games.
I got my hands on 2 mellee dreads for around 17$ each. That seems to be decent for an original model. Will gett a 3d one eventually. Meanwhile it's gona be a helbrute (that i got for 5$ back in the day).
So, around 700 pts left on board. Doesn't seem we have too many options here, really. But we definitely need grots. At least a couple squads and one that contains at least 20 to be used as grot shields for nobz when they charge something like a wall of helblasters. Another 100ish points that go to grots. We also need all the hq. So at least 2 wierdboyz for another 120ish points. And than a boss to keep order for another 70 pts. We do need boyz to benefit from the greentide strategem at least once per game, so another 210 pts minimum. And we need gunz. So, 3 smashas. And... we can't fit it all in. That's sad.
Greetings, spawn of the Old Ones!
Necron player here, with a battlereport vs an Ork army /w ‘codex’ (my opponent basically scrapped all the leaks together to already play with it).
Here’s the battlereport, enjoy!
2000 points
Lists:
Spoiler:
My list:
Necron Battalion, Mephrit
HQ:
Illuminor Szeras, Warlord
Overlord /w Staff of Light, Veil of Darkness
Troops:
2x 20 Warriors
10 Immortals /w Tesla
Elite:
Triach Stalker /w Heat Ray
Fast attack:
2x 4 Scarabs
6x Destroyers
Heavy supp:
2x DDA Transcendant C’tan (rolled a 1 and a 2 on his split personality upgrades!!)
Ork list:
Evil Sunz battalion, 2x spearhead
HQ:
Trike
Warboss on bike /w relic killy klaw, warlord
Weirdboy (upgraded to a Warphead)
Big mek /w KFF
Heavy supp:
5x Mek gun /w Traktor kannon
Bonebreaka battlewagon (meganobz went in here)
Battlewagon /w deffrolla (tankbusta and KKF mek went in here)
Gorkanaut
I deployed everything close to eachother, the Scarabs up front followed by the Warrior blobs.
The orks deployed as close to the front as possible, the Gorkanaut went in the Tellyporta.
Orks, turn 1:
Everything, and i mean EVERYTHING advanced forward (ok, not the mek gunz) and BOY are Evil Sunz fast!
The battlewagons and bikerbosses went as close to my line as possible. Trukk went after them, but stayed midfield to control an objective.
Bikes went to a flank to claim an objective.
Weirdboy (now a Warphead) gave the Boyz+1 attack and Da Jumped them to a flank.
Ork shooting took out the Scarab screen. Tankbustas did 6 wounds to a DDA (with More Dakka, but the QS stratagem really did its job).
The Mek Gunz did absolutely nothing vs the wounded DDA.. 3 of them failed to wound, and the 2D6 take the highest was terrible vs QS.
At this point I thought: ‘alright, I got one turn of shooting before he can charge me’’. Uuuuntil i realised the Trike gave all those battlewagons advance and charge!!
So yea, all the Warriors were locked in combat.
Boyz charged another Warrior Blob, +1 to charge and re-roll any dice was very useful here.
Warboss on bike failed his charge on the Destroyers, that was pretty important.
Bonebreaka charged the Stalker.
We tried to simulate the Boyz on 32” bases, so not all of them got to fight. Still managed to get 100 attacks, which killed 19! Warriors. This many casualties meant the Battlewagon couldn’t finish them off.
The Bonebreaka did 5 wounds to the Stalker. My opponent wanted to save CP, but Boarding Action could have finished it off.
Necrons, turn 1:
The lone warrior was thankfully no longer locked in combat due to the large amount of casualties, and 9 of his buddies reanimated.
Warriors stayed put, one blob had to fall back. Immortals shuffled a bit towards the flank with the boyz, everything else stayed put. C’tan moved towards the Warboss on bike.
Overlord gave the Immortals MWBD, Szeras upgraded the freshly reanimated Warriors to T5.
Then came the Necron shooting... wauw what a retaliation.
First off... 10 Immortals with MWBD and AP-1 thanks to Mephrit killed all 30 boyz!!
One DDA against the Bonebreaka rolled a 6 on his shots! Followed by 5 1’s on his to hit roll..... Still, that one wound did 6 dmg, so it was a rollercoaster of emotions with that thing!
Other DDA finished the Bonebreaka, the Meganobz jumped out.
The small Warrior blob and the Gauss Flayers from the DDA killed the Trike.
Destroyers did 8 wounds to the Battlewagon, KFF absolutely saved it’s skin there.
And finally, C’tan charged the Warboss on bike and absolutely slaughtered him. My Opponent could have made the Boss fight upon death, but the 3++ made him decide against it.
Orks, turn 2.
Tankbustas stayed put, the battlewagon they were in shuffled foward.
Shoots in the trukk jumped out and moved up, trukk stayed behind for the objective.
Meganobz moved foward towards the Destroyers.
Bikers went after the Triach Stalker.
Gorkanaut teleported in on the same flank the Boyz used to be.
Weirdboy tried to Da Jump himself, but the power got denied by Szeras. He then gave the shoota boyz +1A.
The Gorkanaut and the Mek Gunz killed 3 destroyers.
Dakka from the Meganobz, bikes and shoota boyz killed 8 Warriors from the biggest blob.
Tankbustas were now within 6”, so my opponent decided to combo More Dakka with Extra Stikkbombs.
He did a total of 9 wounds to the DDA, leaving it at one wound. Again, Improved QS was amazing.
We simulated the same attack vs a Casstellan Knight with 3++, just to see what it did. The Tankbustas would have done 16 wounds to a Knight, not too shabby.
Gorkanaut charged the Immortals.
Meganobz charged the Destroyers.
Bikes the Stalker.
And shoota boyz the previously shot necron blob.
Gorkanaut killed 8 Immortals, a bit dissapointing considering it had 18 attacks.
Meganobz killed 2 Destroyers, and my opponent let an audible groans as he knew that all those Destoyers could now be reanimated >.
Despite being 12 shoota boyz, they were suprisingly effective in melee thanks to Warpath. They finished of a Warrior blob.
Bikers brought the Stalker down to 1 wound.
Necrons, turn 2.
Bah, the Reanimations went very poor this turn. 10 man Warrior blob only got 2 back, and out of the 5 destroyers only 1 managed to get back up.
The immortals faired a bit better, getting 5 out of the 8 casualties back.
The warrior blob stayed put, since they were gonna teleport out with the Veil so that they could still shoot. Immortals stayed put, since the Meganobz were right in front of them.
Destroyers fell back to shoot at the Meganobz.
C’tan moved up to claim the mid-field objective.
With the Stalker and one DDA having to fall back (and the other DDA being dead) my anti-tank was as good as gone. Though there was still a Battlewagon and a Gorkanaut right up in my face!
This left the infantry. Combined fire from the Destroyers and the immortals killed 2 Meganobz. In cover these bastards are quite tough!
The Veil’d Warriors finished the 12 Shoota boyz.
And in a last desperate move, Szeras and the Immortals charged the Meganobz. Bad idea; the Meganobz took 0 dmg and snipped Szeras in half like a piece of paper.
At this point I unfortunately had to go due to time, but the game was over anyway. The next ork turn the Destroyers, Immortals, Stalker and DDA would have all died, leaving the C’tan, Warriors and Overlord to be cleaned up the turn thereafter.
Post-game Thoughts:
Orks are definitely not a joke anymore. Almost all units my oppponent threw at me were of equal threat due to their speed. The two battlewagons, the Gorkanaut, the 30 unit.... it was very difficult for me to prioritize the biggest target.
Though Mephrit small-arms cut through the ork infantry like a hit knife through butter, their vehicles are tough as nails. Though with the Stalker being locked in combat from turn 1, not all my anti-tank got to shoot.
Still, I definitely expected both Battlewagons to fall in my first turn, but between a KFF and one battlewagon being T8, I underestimated their survivability!
It’s a shame the Warboss /w the Killy Klaw failed his charge, he really would have done a number on the Destroyers.
The Dakka Dakka rule overal felt.... ok. It gave. A bit more oompf to the overal Ork shooting, but I believe it still remains a close-combate orientated army.
All in all it was a very fun match and I look forward to battle the Greenskins again!
I couldn't follow your math, but from tyranids we know that you only roll one advance roll per turn, and then add that to your movement stat for the rest of your turn.
For example, an evil suns kopta would move 14+2" and get a fixed 6+1" for 23" movement. When you move them again through stratagem, they just move another 23".
For bikes, it would move 14+2" plus d6+1". If you rolled a 3, that would be 20". When you move them again, they move another 20", you don't roll another d6.
Therefore, the shokkjump dragsta wouldn't jump again, since you don't roll another dice, but it would get the 4+ inches added to its second move.
Are you sure that doesn't mean he automatically advances then? Since he already rolled that 4+ before and now he moves in an identical manner again, wouldn't that 4+ be "activated" again?
Edit: By automatically advance I mean auutomatically activate the shokk tunnel
We have screenshots of the datasheet leaked, and it says "If you roll a 4+ when advancing with this model..." - since you don't roll again, shokk tunnel doesn't activate again.
I couldn't follow your math, but from tyranids we know that you only roll one advance roll per turn, and then add that to your movement stat for the rest of your turn.
For example, an evil suns kopta would move 14+2" and get a fixed 6+1" for 23" movement. When you move them again through stratagem, they just move another 23".
For bikes, it would move 14+2" plus d6+1". If you rolled a 3, that would be 20". When you move them again, they move another 20", you don't roll another d6.
Therefore, the shokkjump dragsta wouldn't jump again, since you don't roll another dice, but it would get the 4+ inches added to its second move.
Are you sure that doesn't mean he automatically advances then? Since he already rolled that 4+ before and now he moves in an identical manner again, wouldn't that 4+ be "activated" again?
Edit: By automatically advance I mean auutomatically activate the shokk tunnel
We have screenshots of the datasheet leaked, and it says "If you roll a 4+ when advancing with this model..." - since you don't roll again, shokk tunnel doesn't activate again.
I get that. I guess I don't understand how you can be confident that doesn't translate into it shokk tunneling again. You get the same advance move as last time, that advance was not actually a move since you just teleport. To me it sounds more logical that you just jump again since that is literally the same advance move. You don't roll again but you "rolled" a 4+. Maybe I'm just being dense...
koooaei wrote: I'm planning to create a deepstrike fest. 10 manz and 3 dreads. That's no less than 795 pts (no point to ds weaker dreads) but that might be ok for 1500 pt games.
795 pts is more than half the 1500 so good luck finding opponent allowing you to bypass the matched play rule.
Oh wait others do that thing better. IG gets 10 krak grenades for 40 pts as well. 40<210.
No they don't.
You're thinking of space marines, who do not have a grenade stratagem. AFAIK no IG unit currently gets krak grenades and SWS (only in the index) can take demo charges.
I couldn't follow your math, but from tyranids we know that you only roll one advance roll per turn, and then add that to your movement stat for the rest of your turn.
For example, an evil suns kopta would move 14+2" and get a fixed 6+1" for 23" movement. When you move them again through stratagem, they just move another 23".
For bikes, it would move 14+2" plus d6+1". If you rolled a 3, that would be 20". When you move them again, they move another 20", you don't roll another d6.
Therefore, the shokkjump dragsta wouldn't jump again, since you don't roll another dice, but it would get the 4+ inches added to its second move.
Are you sure that doesn't mean he automatically advances then? Since he already rolled that 4+ before and now he moves in an identical manner again, wouldn't that 4+ be "activated" again?
Edit: By automatically advance I mean auutomatically activate the shokk tunnel
We have screenshots of the datasheet leaked, and it says "If you roll a 4+ when advancing with this model..." - since you don't roll again, shokk tunnel doesn't activate again.
I get that. I guess I don't understand how you can be confident that doesn't translate into it shokk tunneling again. You get the same advance move as last time, that advance was not actually a move since you just teleport. To me it sounds more logical that you just jump again since that is literally the same advance move. You don't roll again but you "rolled" a 4+. Maybe I'm just being dense...
Advancing is the act of rolling a d6 and adding it to the movement stat, not the move itself. You can only advance once per turn.
Oh wait others do that thing better. IG gets 10 krak grenades for 40 pts as well. 40<210.
No they don't.
You're thinking of space marines, who do not have a grenade stratagem. AFAIK no IG unit currently gets krak grenades and SWS (only in the index) can take demo charges.
You're correct that Tneva is wrong about bog standrad guard infantry squads having krak grenades, they can only ever have frags. However, scions AFAIK do have both, but are rarely taken in 10 man squads to ever do so.
Advancing is the act of rolling a d6 and adding it to the movement stat, not the move itself. You can only advance once per turn.
I hope you don't find me annoying now, but I still don't really agree. Here's a question regarding advancing in the BRB40k errata in its entirety:
Spoiler:
Q: The rules for Advancing state that you roll a dice and add the result to the Move characteristic of the models in the unit ‘for that Movement phase’. If, for whatever reason, I am able to Advance and then move normally with a unit in the same Movement phase, does the number I added to the unit’s Move characteristic when it Advanced still apply when I make the normal move with the unit? For example, I have a unit whose Move characteristic is 6". It Advances, and I roll a 6, adding that to its Move characteristic to make 12". If it moves again in the same phase, its Move characteristic is still 12", so can it move up to 12" when making this move?
A: Yes. Note that a unit cannot Advance more than once in the same Movement phase, so the Move characteristic of a unit can only be modified once in this manner
They do not state that you cannot advance more than once per turn, rather that you can't more than once per phase. The shokkjump example would be advancing once in the movement phase and then another time at the end of the shooting phase. So in my mind, that means that the advance move in the shooting phase is actually an advance move and not just adding those extra inches. Again, maybe I'm just being dense. I think I'll ask GW about it just to be safe
Poking through this ork prerelease BS file, I'm not seeing any changes that haven't been mentioned in leaks/reviews I've seen.
There are a couple things I'm fairly confident are incorrect (Bonebreaka for example doesn't add the extra 20pts base and doesn't look like it's locked into the 'ard Case...but it also has a Dakkajet listed as an upgrade it can take so I'm gonna chalk that bad boy up to "it's in beta".) Points values all seem to be solidly there so I'm going to have some fun with listbuilding.
So, thinking about the new Battlewagon variants for a second here:
Gunwagon: Essentially pays 20 points for a second kilkannon. If it wasn't also locked into the 'ard case upgrade I'd consider it as a way to park a big unit of Flash Gitz midboard and just blast away at 24", but I think the 'ard case and lack of BS4+ makes it pretty solidly useless.
Bonebreaka: Perfectly solid unit for use with melee battlewagon occupants especially when evil sunz deep striking. It seems to be best loaded with six meganobz or 11 nobz+some kind of character for maximum effect. 20pts for bonebreaka ram rule seems totally worth it with the improved deffrolla.
Battewagon: 40 points is a mighty hefty drop, to the point where "just a deffrolla" battewagons are very nearly the cost of two trukks for a really large increase in threat.
koooaei wrote: I'm planning to create a deepstrike fest. 10 manz and 3 dreads. That's no less than 795 pts (no point to ds weaker dreads) but that might be ok for 1500 pt games.
I got my hands on 2 mellee dreads for around 17$ each. That seems to be decent for an original model. Will gett a 3d one eventually. Meanwhile it's gona be a helbrute (that i got for 5$ back in the day).
So, around 700 pts left on board. Doesn't seem we have too many options here, really. But we definitely need grots. At least a couple squads and one that contains at least 20 to be used as grot shields for nobz when they charge something like a wall of helblasters. Another 100ish points that go to grots. We also need all the hq. So at least 2 wierdboyz for another 120ish points. And than a boss to keep order for another 70 pts. We do need boyz to benefit from the greentide strategem at least once per game, so another 210 pts minimum. And we need gunz. So, 3 smashas. And... we can't fit it all in. That's sad.
Got to pump up to 2000 man! Those are rookie numbers!
Nice find on the dreads! I am thinking the same thing. 3 dreads and 7-10 manz deep striking almost every game. They are AMAZINg as evil sunz because the +1 to charge with re-roll almost guarantees the charge hits pay dirt. Even though Im traditionally a goff. So my boyz, nobz will be goffs, while the "red team" forward operate.
I think I'm going to paint my MANz in a dark angels terminator color scheme and call em my "deff wing." That mat be a blood axe thing.. ripping off oomie kulture.. but it sounds fun.
I just had never even thought about that combo until now. 1ppm and 1 cp to toss ten krak grenades is a REALLY good bargain. Especially if you can surround a transport and then blow it up, killing everyone inside.
Stickbomb!=krak bomb. S3. Wee! Tank busta bomb is 1 per 10 so for squad of 30(210 pts with zero upgrades) you get 3 of them. 210 pts and 1CP with BS5+! WOOOOO! What an AWESOME deal.
Oh wait others do that thing better. IG gets 10 krak grenades for 40 pts as well. 40<210.
Do you play orks? you know BS5 is a thing and has been for a while right? Ok good. Cause that sounds like a lot of "wahhhhhh" coming from you when it should be WAAAGGGGGHHHHH. I was referring the to tankbusta bombs we get in the squad now. Boyz blobs have a tool to deal with armor. For 1ppm I will take it. At first I misunderstood and thought for 1 cp we could toss 10 tankbusta bombs from boys units. I see how I was mistaken.
Do you play orks? you know BS5 is a thing and has been for a while right? Ok good. Cause that sounds like a lot of "wahhhhhh" coming from you when it should be WAAAGGGGGHHHHH. I was referring the to tankbusta bombs we get in the squad now. Boyz blobs have a tool to deal with armor. For 1ppm I will take it. At first I misunderstood and thought for 1 cp we could toss 10 tankbusta bombs from boys units. I see how I was mistaken.
BS5+ being a thing for a while should precisely have taught you how useless few shots are. But sure if 20 years hasn't taught it yet keep on banging your head. Eventually you'll learn how inefficient 5+ to hit shooting is without big pile of dices.
As it is it's gone for WORSE for orks seeing hit modifiers are again a thing...Before at least you could be sure you hit on 5+. Now you can't rely on that and can hit on 6+ halving your hits.
Coming from 1 year of (success) playing ´Nids I did a 2k which would suit my play style and from there went down to 1750 and 1500 to try to understand how I would like the list to evolve.
2k Brigade Evil Sunz
Spoiler:
++ 2k Brigade Evil Sunz ++
Ork Kultures: Evil Sunz - Red Ones Go Fasta
+ HQ +
Big Mek: Choppa, Shokk Attack Gun
Big Mek: Choppa, Shokk Attack Gun
Weirdboy
+ Troops +
Boyz . Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
Boyz . Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 11x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
Pros: a lot of board control, decent backfire and in your face G-Naut with the telly meanwhile I can flame mid field chaff or gun down them. Good target saturation and good scaling with Stormboyz DP turn2 and 3, Boyz mob up and Jump turn 1 and a lot of grotz to keep on Jumping later as harrassment.
Cons: Kind of offering the big fella; i Need to buy another 1000kr of models plus the 1000 i just spent in codex and Gunz and grotz >->
Downscaled 1750 for now is something like this:
Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP ++
+ HQ +
Big Mek: Choppa, Shokk Attack Gun
Big Mek: Choppa, Shokk Attack Gun
+ Troops +
Gretchin: 10x Gretchin
Gretchin: 10x Gretchin
Gretchin: 10x Gretchin
+ Elites +
Nobz: Cybork Body
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Big Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Big Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Big Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Big Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Big Choppa
The Nobz are there for "Surprise MotherF R" effect in the G-Naur, but a lot depends if the transported units are counted as PL for the Stratagem or not. Otherwise I might opt for a lot of boyz to mob up and jump or a Plane. I will wait the Faq before i buy anymore models.
Advancing is the act of rolling a d6 and adding it to the movement stat, not the move itself. You can only advance once per turn.
I hope you don't find me annoying now, but I still don't really agree. Here's a question regarding advancing in the BRB40k errata in its entirety:
Spoiler:
Q: The rules for Advancing state that you roll a dice and add the result to the Move characteristic of the models in the unit ‘for that Movement phase’. If, for whatever reason, I am able to Advance and then move normally with a unit in the same Movement phase, does the number I added to the unit’s Move characteristic when it Advanced still apply when I make the normal move with the unit? For example, I have a unit whose Move characteristic is 6". It Advances, and I roll a 6, adding that to its Move characteristic to make 12". If it moves again in the same phase, its Move characteristic is still 12", so can it move up to 12" when making this move?
A: Yes. Note that a unit cannot Advance more than once in the same Movement phase, so the Move characteristic of a unit can only be modified once in this manner
They do not state that you cannot advance more than once per turn, rather that you can't more than once per phase. The shokkjump example would be advancing once in the movement phase and then another time at the end of the shooting phase. So in my mind, that means that the advance move in the shooting phase is actually an advance move and not just adding those extra inches. Again, maybe I'm just being dense. I think I'll ask GW about it just to be safe
As RAW you are right, however expect it to be FAQed as they did for 'Nids and their stratagem
Advancing is the act of rolling a d6 and adding it to the movement stat, not the move itself. You can only advance once per turn.
I hope you don't find me annoying now, but I still don't really agree. Here's a question regarding advancing in the BRB40k errata in its entirety:
Spoiler:
Q: The rules for Advancing state that you roll a dice and add the result to the Move characteristic of the models in the unit ‘for that Movement phase’. If, for whatever reason, I am able to Advance and then move normally with a unit in the same Movement phase, does the number I added to the unit’s Move characteristic when it Advanced still apply when I make the normal move with the unit? For example, I have a unit whose Move characteristic is 6". It Advances, and I roll a 6, adding that to its Move characteristic to make 12". If it moves again in the same phase, its Move characteristic is still 12", so can it move up to 12" when making this move?
A: Yes. Note that a unit cannot Advance more than once in the same Movement phase, so the Move characteristic of a unit can only be modified once in this manner
They do not state that you cannot advance more than once per turn, rather that you can't more than once per phase. The shokkjump example would be advancing once in the movement phase and then another time at the end of the shooting phase. So in my mind, that means that the advance move in the shooting phase is actually an advance move and not just adding those extra inches. Again, maybe I'm just being dense. I think I'll ask GW about it just to be safe
Uh, no, you got misunderstood the question entirely. And no, you are not annoying at all, this is genuinely difficult to understand
In 8th edition "Advancing" is a separate action you take during your movement phase that modifiers your Move characteristic. Advancing by itself does not move your model at all. Moving after having rolled a d6 is not "advancing". When you re-read that FAQ with that in mind, it makes a lot more sense.
For example, if you advance with your warbikers, you roll a d6 and add the result to your movement characteristic. For example, if you roll a 5, their movement characteristic is now 19" (assuming not evil suns). You can then use your regular move to move them 19" rather than 14". If you use a stratagem to move them again, their movement characteristic is still 19" from your advance roll, so they move another 19".
So the shokkjump dragsta only jumps when you roll the dice to decide how much you add to your movement for that turn. You do not jump every time you move, since you cannot take the "Advance" action a second time in your movement phase. Outside of the movement phase you cannot advance since Advancing is limited to units picked to move during your movement phase.
Additional FAQs from Codex: Tyranids
Q: Can a unit ever Advance twice in a single phase? A: No.
Q: If a unit has Advanced in a phase, and is given the opportunity to move again in the same phase, what is their Move characteristic? A: Their Move characteristic for the second move would still be the value as modified from the Advance.
For example, if a unit with a Move characteristic of 5" Advances in a Movement phase, and the result of the dice rolled for the Advance is 4, its Move characteristic would be modified for that phase to 9". As such, if it was given the opportunity to move again in that phase, its Move characteristic would still be 9"
Do you play orks? you know BS5 is a thing and has been for a while right? Ok good. Cause that sounds like a lot of "wahhhhhh" coming from you when it should be WAAAGGGGGHHHHH. I was referring the to tankbusta bombs we get in the squad now. Boyz blobs have a tool to deal with armor. For 1ppm I will take it. At first I misunderstood and thought for 1 cp we could toss 10 tankbusta bombs from boys units. I see how I was mistaken.
BS5+ being a thing for a while should precisely have taught you how useless few shots are. But sure if 20 years hasn't taught it yet keep on banging your head. Eventually you'll learn how inefficient 5+ to hit shooting is without big pile of dices.
As it is it's gone for WORSE for orks seeing hit modifiers are again a thing...Before at least you could be sure you hit on 5+. Now you can't rely on that and can hit on 6+ halving your hits.
Then don’t shoot the shots if you feel it’s a waste of time. I see ork shoring as volume based...but sometimes that volune is not coming from one gun or one unit...but just as a whole from the army. So even if it’s one Kustom Shoota here or there 4,5 of those across the board will add up. I’m sorry but your negative complainer attitude does very little in a thread about tactics. Plenty of that in the news and rumors thread.
For players wanting to still run greentide-ish army lists. We need to take into account the prepared positions strategem. all units in your deployment zone get the benefit of cover. So you could upgrade to ardboys and receive the 4+ save without having to be bloodaxes. Now again this only really helps if you go 2nd. But still its an additional consideration.
I have decided to create an Ork army and return to the original army I played with back when I first started 40k! The new Codex and vehicles has got me quite excited.
I expect this to be more of a fun/themed army so I will be playing Evil Sunz. I wanted to ask two questions.
1) Are a full squad of Shoota Boyz in a Trukk a waste of time/money? Thematically it seems really cool and Mad Maxish. Big shootas, kustom shoota and the rest with regular shootas driving around like maniacs spewing dakka. Use them to fill out my battalion.
2) Besides the shoota boyz in Trukks... where should I start on an Evil Sunz/Speed Freeks army? Should I get more Trukks and stick Tankbustas in them or should I go for the new buggies? I lean towards new buggies due to rule of cool.
Just some general tips for collecting and avoiding anything completely useless would be great! Thanks everyone!
Bell of Lost Souls is saying mixed units will get klan benefits. Would make more sense since gretchin keyword was on Nobz and Flash gitz for ammo Runts
Hades wrote: Bell of Lost Souls is saying mixed units will get klan benefits. Would make more sense since gretchin keyword was on Nobz and Flash gitz for ammo Runts
yeah I'm not 100% sure yet on this since goatboy keeps saying mek gunz get kultur traits since they also have the mek gunz keyword. Theres the mek gun and the 5 grot crew. So not sure how it's played yet since no one has posted an image of the restriction.
Hades wrote: Bell of Lost Souls is saying mixed units will get klan benefits. Would make more sense since gretchin keyword was on Nobz and Flash gitz for ammo Runts
yeah I'm not 100% sure yet on this since goatboy keeps saying mek gunz get kultur traits since they also have the mek gunz keyword. Theres the mek gun and the 5 grot crew. So not sure how it's played yet since no one has posted an image of the restriction.
I really hope its addressed in a FAQ soon, along with riding in a transport of a different kultur
I don't know why anyone would expect Mek Gunz to get kulturs. This is a flavor thing for GW, not even a balance thing. They are manned exclusively by grots, end of story. To claim a grot should get kultur because his gun, an inanimate object, is not a grot, is beyond ridiculous.
Hades wrote: Bell of Lost Souls is saying mixed units will get klan benefits. Would make more sense since gretchin keyword was on Nobz and Flash gitz for ammo Runts
This is wrong. They are "mixed" in the sense that the models look different from each other, but the gun is a gretchen...just a really big, ugly one.
558 points of Deffskull Smasha Guns would erase 60 wounds of non-ion shielded knights per turn. this HAS to be outlawed.
For players wanting to still run greentide-ish army lists. We need to take into account the prepared positions strategem. all units in your deployment zone get the benefit of cover. So you could upgrade to ardboys and receive the 4+ save without having to be bloodaxes. Now again this only really helps if you go 2nd. But still its an additional consideration.
It’s one way of doing it but I think it’s not very strong for the cost.
I still rather use a mekadread kff or gorkanaut or big Mek w kff and a painboy on bike with Gretchin screens For a 5++, 5+++, 2+ To protect that precious 20+ boy atk bonus. (And take skarboyz instead)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote: I don't know why anyone would expect Mek Gunz to get kulturs. This is a flavor thing for GW, not even a balance thing. They are manned exclusively by grots, end of story. To claim a grot should get kultur because his gun, an inanimate object, is not a grot, is beyond ridiculous.
like the person above said if you are going strictly RAW then nobs and flahsgits don’t get kulturs either since they have the keyword Gretchin...
Furthermore going by your “flavor” theory half the vehicles wouldn’t benefit either since they use grot gunners.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: I have decided to create an Ork army and return to the original army I played with back when I first started 40k! The new Codex and vehicles has got me quite excited.
I expect this to be more of a fun/themed army so I will be playing Evil Sunz. I wanted to ask two questions.
1) Are a full squad of Shoota Boyz in a Trukk a waste of time/money? Thematically it seems really cool and Mad Maxish. Big shootas, kustom shoota and the rest with regular shootas driving around like maniacs spewing dakka. Use them to fill out my battalion.
2) Besides the shoota boyz in Trukks... where should I start on an Evil Sunz/Speed Freeks army? Should I get more Trukks and stick Tankbustas in them or should I go for the new buggies? I lean towards new buggies due to rule of cool.
Just some general tips for collecting and avoiding anything completely useless would be great! Thanks everyone!
Shoota Boyz in Trukks just doesn't seem worth it. You get about 20 S4 shots from the Shoota's and then 6 S5 shots from a Big Shoota (Trukk + special weapon), but that's still BS5+. Some quick math teaches us that's a little under 2 dead MEQ per turn for about 150 points total. In other words, not very cost-effective unless you target Devastators or other expensive squishy models, even if it's just for coolness. I think you'll be better off with a Snazzwagon or Dakkajet if you want anti-MEQ dakka.
Tankbustas in a Trukk can be quite nice, the Trukk provides some ablative wounds and help them get into position. With Evil Sunz you can also advance and still shoot at BS5+, opening up more positioning options. A Trukk can also help get them in position for an Extra Stikkbomb! salvo (this stratagem allows you to toss 10 Tankbusta bombs at some poor target). Think it costs 234 points for 10 Busta's (or 2 boxes) + Trukk. Then you can also add 2 Bomb Squigs in the mix but I'm not sure how much those gitz cost. Of course, for the same points cost you can also get 2 Skrapjets for anti-tank/ monster duty. Not sure how effective those are but they're looking to be one of the better new buggies. Get a Trikeboss along with them and you can move, advance, shoot at full BS thanks to Evil Sunz (I think all the Skrapjet weapons are assault?) and maybe even stand a chance of getting a charge off T1 (they have a quite serviceable melee profile with WS4+ A4 S8 AP-2 Dd3).
Did anyone else notice that there is a way to get a dmg 4 power klaw?
By taking the relic power klaw and the warlord trait brutal but kunnin, you get a power klaw on a character that can reroll to hit, reroll to wound, and is dmg 4 with no -1 to hit value. He can be any klan as both of these are generic relic and generic warlord traits.
Glitcha wrote: Did anyone else notice that there is a way to get a dmg 4 power klaw?
By taking the relic power klaw and the warlord trait brutal but kunnin, you get a power klaw on a character that can reroll to hit, reroll to wound, and is dmg 4 with no -1 to hit value. He can be any klan as both of these are generic relic and generic warlord traits.
This makes sense as there is a way for the BA Smash Captain to hit Damage 4.
Glitcha wrote: Did anyone else notice that there is a way to get a dmg 4 power klaw?
By taking the relic power klaw and the warlord trait brutal but kunnin, you get a power klaw on a character that can reroll to hit, reroll to wound, and is dmg 4 with no -1 to hit value. He can be any klan as both of these are generic relic and generic warlord traits.
This makes sense as there is a way for the BA Smash Captain to hit Damage 4.
Well, all hail Da SmashBoss then Tellyport him over or toss him in a Bonebreaka and let the krumping begin. Only problem is he'll be squishy as hell with T5 4+ and no invul...
Glitcha wrote: Did anyone else notice that there is a way to get a dmg 4 power klaw?
By taking the relic power klaw and the warlord trait brutal but kunnin, you get a power klaw on a character that can reroll to hit, reroll to wound, and is dmg 4 with no -1 to hit value. He can be any klan as both of these are generic relic and generic warlord traits.
Can you take the relic klaw on the new trikeboss? Or is it because he doesnt technically have a PK you cant replace it? Having the relic klaw on one of those guys would be brutal
I do have a question.. does anyone have the stc Ryza ruins and how are they as terrain?
The reason I ask is because the Mek shop states it’s compatible with the Ryza ruins. And I would like to give the Mek shop a bit more definition then what is available by itself.
Glitcha wrote: Did anyone else notice that there is a way to get a dmg 4 power klaw?
By taking the relic power klaw and the warlord trait brutal but kunnin, you get a power klaw on a character that can reroll to hit, reroll to wound, and is dmg 4 with no -1 to hit value. He can be any klan as both of these are generic relic and generic warlord traits.
Can you take the relic klaw on the new trikeboss? Or is it because he doesnt technically have a PK you cant replace it? Having the relic klaw on one of those guys would be brutal
Snaggaklaw =/= Power Klaw, so no. Snagga seems more intended as a souped up Lightning Claw than a Powerfist equivalent anyway (both by stats and design), so I guess that makes sense. Pity there's no relic Snaggaclaw though, but I think many people will go for Da Supa Cybork anyway to give the Trikeboss some much-needed durability. Pity the 4++ WL trait is Bad Moonz only
Glitcha wrote: Did anyone else notice that there is a way to get a dmg 4 power klaw?
By taking the relic power klaw and the warlord trait brutal but kunnin, you get a power klaw on a character that can reroll to hit, reroll to wound, and is dmg 4 with no -1 to hit value. He can be any klan as both of these are generic relic and generic warlord traits.
Can you take the relic klaw on the new trikeboss? Or is it because he doesnt technically have a PK you cant replace it? Having the relic klaw on one of those guys would be brutal
Snaggaklaw =/= Power Klaw, so no. Snagga seems more intended as a souped up Lightning Claw than a Powerfist equivalent anyway, so I guess that makes sense. Pity there's no relic Snaggaclaw though, but I think many people will go for Da Supa Cybork anyway to give the Trikeboss some much-needed durability.
Make sense. I wasnt sure if the wording on the relic was such that it "replaced" the powerklaw or if it was just a free weapon for your warlord.
gungo wrote: I do have a question.. does anyone have the stc Ryza ruins and how are they as terrain?
The reason I ask is because the Mek shop states it’s compatible with the Ryza ruins. And I would like to give the Mek shop a bit more definition then what is available by itself.
I've painted a set of them. They're fine. Cheap for what you get in the box tbh.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: I have decided to create an Ork army and return to the original army I played with back when I first started 40k! The new Codex and vehicles has got me quite excited.
I expect this to be more of a fun/themed army so I will be playing Evil Sunz. I wanted to ask two questions.
1) Are a full squad of Shoota Boyz in a Trukk a waste of time/money? Thematically it seems really cool and Mad Maxish. Big shootas, kustom shoota and the rest with regular shootas driving around like maniacs spewing dakka. Use them to fill out my battalion.
2) Besides the shoota boyz in Trukks... where should I start on an Evil Sunz/Speed Freeks army? Should I get more Trukks and stick Tankbustas in them or should I go for the new buggies? I lean towards new buggies due to rule of cool.
Just some general tips for collecting and avoiding anything completely useless would be great! Thanks everyone!
Shoota Boyz in Trukks just doesn't seem worth it. You get about 20 S4 shots from the Shoota's and then 6 S5 shots from a Big Shoota (Trukk + special weapon), but that's still BS5+. Some quick math teaches us that's a little under 2 dead MEQ per turn for about 150 points total. In other words, not very cost-effective unless you target Devastators or other expensive squishy models, even if it's just for coolness. I think you'll be better off with a Snazzwagon or Dakkajet if you want anti-MEQ dakka.
Tankbustas in a Trukk can be quite nice, the Trukk provides some ablative wounds and help them get into position. With Evil Sunz you can also advance and still shoot at BS5+, opening up more positioning options. A Trukk can also help get them in position for an Extra Stikkbomb! salvo (this stratagem allows you to toss 10 Tankbusta bombs at some poor target). Think it costs 234 points for 10 Busta's (or 2 boxes) + Trukk. Then you can also add 2 Bomb Squigs in the mix but I'm not sure how much those gitz cost. Of course, for the same points cost you can also get 2 Skrapjets for anti-tank/ monster duty. Not sure how effective those are but they're looking to be one of the better new buggies. Get a Trikeboss along with them and you can move, advance, shoot at full BS thanks to Evil Sunz (I think all the Skrapjet weapons are assault?) and maybe even stand a chance of getting a charge off T1 (they have a quite serviceable melee profile with WS4+ A4 S8 AP-2 Dd3).
This makes me somewhat sad about that math... Though with 3 trukks full it would be 60 shoota shots, 18 big shoota shots and 12 kustom shoota shots, all with dakka dakka? I may still give it a whirl just for the cool factor. You have a point though and I shall think about it! I heard the Trukks are taking a pretty significant points decrease as well. I guess it would make more sense to do the warbikes for mass shots, not the shoota boyz?
The trikeboss is definitly on my list! Whether he was terrible or not lol. The buggies are just too cool to pass up but they also point towards my trukk of boys being irrelevant. a 100 points for the burna boyz buggy (whatever its called) seems like a better investment.
I guess I will get a better feel for it once the Codex is in my hands.
Glitcha wrote: Did anyone else notice that there is a way to get a dmg 4 power klaw?
By taking the relic power klaw and the warlord trait brutal but kunnin, you get a power klaw on a character that can reroll to hit, reroll to wound, and is dmg 4 with no -1 to hit value. He can be any klan as both of these are generic relic and generic warlord traits.
Can you take the relic klaw on the new trikeboss? Or is it because he doesnt technically have a PK you cant replace it? Having the relic klaw on one of those guys would be brutal
Snaggaklaw =/= Power Klaw, so no. Snagga seems more intended as a souped up Lightning Claw than a Powerfist equivalent anyway, so I guess that makes sense. Pity there's no relic Snaggaclaw though, but I think many people will go for Da Supa Cybork anyway to give the Trikeboss some much-needed durability.
Make sense. I wasnt sure if the wording on the relic was such that it "replaced" the powerklaw or if it was just a free weapon for your warlord.
I'm not sure about the wording either, but if by some stroke of chance it doesn't replace a PK and is simply a free weapon I'd bet my shiny new Speed Freeks box it's going to be errata'd ASAP.
lord_blackfang wrote: I don't know why anyone would expect Mek Gunz to get kulturs. This is a flavor thing for GW, not even a balance thing. They are manned exclusively by grots, end of story. To claim a grot should get kultur because his gun, an inanimate object, is not a grot, is beyond ridiculous.
like the person above said if you are going strictly RAW then nobs and flahsgits don’t get kulturs either since they have the keyword Gretchin...
Furthermore going by your “flavor” theory half the vehicles wouldn’t benefit either since they use grot gunners.
This is very true. By RAW, Nobs are big grots, and do not get kultures.
GW had months to get this codex right, and yet they give us this. Mork help us.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: I have decided to create an Ork army and return to the original army I played with back when I first started 40k! The new Codex and vehicles has got me quite excited.
I expect this to be more of a fun/themed army so I will be playing Evil Sunz. I wanted to ask two questions.
1) Are a full squad of Shoota Boyz in a Trukk a waste of time/money? Thematically it seems really cool and Mad Maxish. Big shootas, kustom shoota and the rest with regular shootas driving around like maniacs spewing dakka. Use them to fill out my battalion.
2) Besides the shoota boyz in Trukks... where should I start on an Evil Sunz/Speed Freeks army? Should I get more Trukks and stick Tankbustas in them or should I go for the new buggies? I lean towards new buggies due to rule of cool.
Just some general tips for collecting and avoiding anything completely useless would be great! Thanks everyone!
Shoota Boyz in Trukks just doesn't seem worth it. You get about 20 S4 shots from the Shoota's and then 6 S5 shots from a Big Shoota (Trukk + special weapon), but that's still BS5+. Some quick math teaches us that's a little under 2 dead MEQ per turn for about 150 points total. In other words, not very cost-effective unless you target Devastators or other expensive squishy models, even if it's just for coolness. I think you'll be better off with a Snazzwagon or Dakkajet if you want anti-MEQ dakka.
Tankbustas in a Trukk can be quite nice, the Trukk provides some ablative wounds and help them get into position. With Evil Sunz you can also advance and still shoot at BS5+, opening up more positioning options. A Trukk can also help get them in position for an Extra Stikkbomb! salvo (this stratagem allows you to toss 10 Tankbusta bombs at some poor target). Think it costs 234 points for 10 Busta's (or 2 boxes) + Trukk. Then you can also add 2 Bomb Squigs in the mix but I'm not sure how much those gitz cost. Of course, for the same points cost you can also get 2 Skrapjets for anti-tank/ monster duty. Not sure how effective those are but they're looking to be one of the better new buggies. Get a Trikeboss along with them and you can move, advance, shoot at full BS thanks to Evil Sunz (I think all the Skrapjet weapons are assault?) and maybe even stand a chance of getting a charge off T1 (they have a quite serviceable melee profile with WS4+ A4 S8 AP-2 Dd3).
This makes me somewhat sad about that math... Though with 3 trukks full it would be 60 shoota shots, 18 big shoota shots and 12 kustom shoota shots, all with dakka dakka? I may still give it a whirl just for the cool factor. You have a point though and I shall think about it! I heard the Trukks are taking a pretty significant points decrease as well.
The trikeboss is definitly on my list! Whether he was terrible or not lol. The buggies are just too cool to pass up but they also point towards my trukk of boys being irrelevant. a 100 points for the burna boyz buggy (whatever its called) seems like a better investment.
I guess I will get a better feel for it once the Codex is in my hands.
The Burna Boy buggy is the Snazzwagon, going to get one myself next Saturday because local players here are quite fond of putting their Marines and Guardsmen in ruins and I need to hose them out
lord_blackfang wrote: I don't know why anyone would expect Mek Gunz to get kulturs. This is a flavor thing for GW, not even a balance thing. They are manned exclusively by grots, end of story. To claim a grot should get kultur because his gun, an inanimate object, is not a grot, is beyond ridiculous.
like the person above said if you are going strictly RAW then nobs and flahsgits don’t get kulturs either since they have the keyword Gretchin...
Furthermore going by your “flavor” theory half the vehicles wouldn’t benefit either since they use grot gunners.
This is very true. By RAW, Nobs are big grots, and do not get kultures.
GW had months to get this codex right, and yet they give us this. Mork help us.
I thought the Grots not getting it is in their datasheet, not based on the keyword, same as the Flashgitz? Or it was in the special rules section when explaining the Kultures and who benefits from them, I forget. I would say that's someone taking that too far... but who knows.
lord_blackfang wrote: I don't know why anyone would expect Mek Gunz to get kulturs. This is a flavor thing for GW, not even a balance thing. They are manned exclusively by grots, end of story. To claim a grot should get kultur because his gun, an inanimate object, is not a grot, is beyond ridiculous.
like the person above said if you are going strictly RAW then nobs and flahsgits don’t get kulturs either since they have the keyword Gretchin...
Furthermore going by your “flavor” theory half the vehicles wouldn’t benefit either since they use grot gunners.
This is very true. By RAW, Nobs are big grots, and do not get kultures.
GW had months to get this codex right, and yet they give us this. Mork help us.
I thought the Grots not getting it is in their datasheet, not based on the keyword, same as the Flashgitz? Or it was in the special rules section when explaining the Kultures and who benefits from them, I forget. I would say that's someone taking that too far... but who knows.
Gretchin don't get Klan Kulturs because of the GRETCHIN keyword (any units with this keyword are not eligible to get Kultur benefits). This means that Mek Gunz will not receive the benefit of Klan Kulturs (because they have the GRETCHIN keyword) while Grot Gunners on vehicles do receive Kulturs because said vehicles lack the GRETCHIN keyword.
edit: Huh, do Nobz have the Gretchin keyword? (ammo runts?) This could get really confusing really quickly 'fraid GW will jave some errata-ing to do
lord_blackfang wrote: I don't know why anyone would expect Mek Gunz to get kulturs. This is a flavor thing for GW, not even a balance thing. They are manned exclusively by grots, end of story. To claim a grot should get kultur because his gun, an inanimate object, is not a grot, is beyond ridiculous.
like the person above said if you are going strictly RAW then nobs and flahsgits don’t get kulturs either since they have the keyword Gretchin...
Furthermore going by your “flavor” theory half the vehicles wouldn’t benefit either since they use grot gunners.
This is very true. By RAW, Nobs are big grots, and do not get kultures.
GW had months to get this codex right, and yet they give us this. Mork help us.
I thought the Grots not getting it is in their datasheet, not based on the keyword, same as the Flashgitz? Or it was in the special rules section when explaining the Kultures and who benefits from them, I forget. I would say that's someone taking that too far... but who knows.
I think its in the kulturs section, right below where they talk about flashgitz
Ammo runts are separate figs and I believe still have a stat line which may prevent the runts from getting clan traits.
Grot gunners no longer even have a stat line, for all intents and purposes you could not even place them on the table and the gun would function the same way. The gun itself has the grot keyword.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Glitcha beat me to it.
Nuck Fewton wrote: Ammo runts are separate figs and I believe still have a stat line which may prevent the runts from getting clan traits.
Grot gunners no longer even have a stat line, for all intents and purposes you could not even place them on the table and the gun would function the same way. The gun itself has the grot keyword.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Glitcha beat me to it.
The ammo runts are called out as a seperate line item with the GRETCHIN keyword. Mek gunz are just one line item with the GRETCHIN keyword so they wouldnt get kulture, but nobz would.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: Oh hey, I was right! It has to be a full unit of grots, it's not the keyword. The Nobs can have ammo runts is probably why the keyword is there?
Yes, its the last line in the box that list their starting wargear and power level for each squad advance.
Billagio wrote: The ammo runts are called out as a seperate line item with the GRETCHIN keyword. Mek gunz are just one line item with the GRETCHIN keyword so they wouldnt get kulture, but nobz would.
Yeah Mek gunz still get the kultur buff. Expect to see an FAQ that explains it, but they will still get it. This is because on the grot page it is just Gretchin. Where the mek gun has the Gretchin keyword and the mek gun keyword meaning it is not an entire squad of just gretchin.
Now then....it seems to me that the ammo runts are equipped with slugga and choppa...and can swap them out. Nowhere does it say the weapons are for nobs only.
Now then....it seems to me that the ammo runts are equipped with slugga and choppa...and can swap them out. Nowhere does it say the weapons are for nobs only.
Each Boss nob and nob are equipped with a sluga, chopa, and stikkbombs. Does not say what the Ammo runt is equipped with. See my spoiler post again.
lord_blackfang wrote: I don't know why anyone would expect Mek Gunz to get kulturs. This is a flavor thing for GW, not even a balance thing. They are manned exclusively by grots, end of story. To claim a grot should get kultur because his gun, an inanimate object, is not a grot, is beyond ridiculous.
like the person above said if you are going strictly RAW then nobs and flahsgits don’t get kulturs either since they have the keyword Gretchin...
Furthermore going by your “flavor” theory half the vehicles wouldn’t benefit either since they use grot gunners.
This is very true. By RAW, Nobs are big grots, and do not get kultures.
GW had months to get this codex right, and yet they give us this. Mork help us.
I thought the Grots not getting it is in their datasheet, not based on the keyword, same as the Flashgitz? Or it was in the special rules section when explaining the Kultures and who benefits from them, I forget. I would say that's someone taking that too far... but who knows.
I believe I heard someone read it aloud in one of the previews and it made a lot more sense. IIRC 'any unit composed entirely of gretchen do not benifit from Kulture.'
This would explain why Mek Guns and Gretchen units don't get it, as every model in the unit will have the keyword. Nobs are fine because they don't have the gretchen keyword, even if there are models in the unit that do.
Automatically Appended Next Post: damn it, my reply is in the bottom of the quote above
lord_blackfang wrote: I don't know why anyone would expect Mek Gunz to get kulturs. This is a flavor thing for GW, not even a balance thing. They are manned exclusively by grots, end of story. To claim a grot should get kultur because his gun, an inanimate object, is not a grot, is beyond ridiculous.
like the person above said if you are going strictly RAW then nobs and flahsgits don’t get kulturs either since they have the keyword Gretchin...
Furthermore going by your “flavor” theory half the vehicles wouldn’t benefit either since they use grot gunners.
This is very true. By RAW, Nobs are big grots, and do not get kultures.
GW had months to get this codex right, and yet they give us this. Mork help us.
I thought the Grots not getting it is in their datasheet, not based on the keyword, same as the Flashgitz? Or it was in the special rules section when explaining the Kultures and who benefits from them, I forget. I would say that's someone taking that too far... but who knows.
I believe I heard someone read it aloud in one of the previews and it made a lot more sense. IIRC 'any unit composed entirely of gretchen do not benifit from Kulture.'
This would explain why Mek Guns and Gretchen units don't get it, as every model in the unit will have the keyword. Nobs are fine because they don't have the gretchen keyword, even if there are models in the unit that do.
Automatically Appended Next Post: damn it, my reply is in the bottom of the quote above
Sigh, I'm a teknology idiot lol. Fraked up the quote stuff
Billagio wrote: The ammo runts are called out as a seperate line item with the GRETCHIN keyword. Mek gunz are just one line item with the GRETCHIN keyword so they wouldnt get kulture, but nobz would.
Yeah Mek gunz still get the kultur buff. Expect to see an FAQ that explains it, but they will still get it. This is because on the grot page it is just Gretchin. Where the mek gun has the Gretchin keyword and the mek gun keyword meaning it is not an entire squad of just gretchin.
I'm pretty sure that keywords don't work that way.
As long as every model has GRETCHIN as a keyword, it's a unit entirely made up of GRETCHIN, no matter what other keywords they might have.
Thoughts on using a warboss on bike as suicide missle? Cast +2a +2s power on him, equipped with relic claw and +1dmg trait. He has a pretty decent chance at one shotting a knight, especially with Goff klan trait.
So I feel dumb for suggesting it, but... A big mek in mega armor with Klaw, KMB, and tellyport blasta in a shooty klan as a character krumper...fun or so crap it's unusable?
Tp blasta got buffed to flat 3 shots kmb to D6 damage.
redboi wrote: Thoughts on using a warboss on bike as suicide missle? Cast +2a +2s power on him, equipped with relic claw and +1dmg trait. He has a pretty decent chance at one shotting a knight, especially with Goff klan trait.
Might work, but if you charge a shooty Knight you have a real chance of getting killed by overwatch. Castellans and especially Valiants are suicide to charge unless you get a unit of Boyz to eat overwatch first, and Crusaders to a lesser degree. If you do get the charge off don't forget to use the fight twice or fight again when being killed stratagem when the Knight inevitably stomps you into green paste during it's retaliatory strike.
redboi wrote: Thoughts on using a warboss on bike as suicide missle? Cast +2a +2s power on him, equipped with relic claw and +1dmg trait. He has a pretty decent chance at one shotting a knight, especially with Goff klan trait.
yes...but also charge with loaded trukks...and just barely get the trike within an inch of the enemy blob, with the trukks slightly in front.
Once they fall back, the trike is still not the closest and can't be shot. If the trukks die, spill the boys in front as well.
the_scotsman wrote: So I feel dumb for suggesting it, but... A big mek in mega armor with Klaw, KMB, and tellyport blasta in a shooty klan as a character krumper...fun or so crap it's unusable?
Tp blasta got buffed to flat 3 shots kmb to D6 damage.
Depends on the WS and A stats of the Big Mek model whether that's worth it... I thought it was 3+ and 3? Also you have to be positioned just right to even be able to use your guns on your target (because character) and even then they're hitting on 5+... It could work on someone who has left one of his backline HQs unscreened. Tellyport in, unload TP blasta + KMB, charge and finish off with Klaw (think these guys can also take Killsaw? Might be worth considering for the reliable 2 damage). Problem with this strategy is that it relies on your opponent making a mistake instead of you making a good play. That, or you can try to use it on one of your opponents' beatsticks if they expose themselves before they charge you. But that too depends more on your opponents mistakes (or misfortune if they fail a crucial charge roll) than your own kunnin'.
It seems that NONE of the people who have a codex are on Dakka.
*cough cough*
Spoiler:
Well, my entire army is basically useless now.
What really pisses me of, is that in all the faction focus stuff they constantly talk about Gretchin with Kukture, like at the end of the Snakebites one:
"...some ‘hardy’ Snakebites Gretchin will do your clan proud (as everyone knows that the best Runtherdz are Snakebites)..."
It seems that NONE of the people who have a codex are on Dakka.
*cough cough*
Spoiler:
Well, my entire army is basically useless now.
What really pisses me of, is that in all the faction focus stuff they constantly talk about Gretchin with Kukture, like at the end of the Snakebites one:
"...some ‘hardy’ Snakebites Gretchin will do your clan proud (as everyone knows that the best Runtherdz are Snakebites)..."
Yeah, and they also advertised Iron Hands Contemptor Dreadnoughts with 2x 6+++ rolls; which worked for a bit - only to be changed shortly afterwards.
I don't like that they removed GRETCHIN from getting Kultur; it kills so many lists, for no real reason. The only unit that got excessive bonuses from kultur was the MekGunz, and that's only because of Deathskulls kultur. BadMoonz RR1's was the second best, but even then; it's really not that strong - every army has access to RR1's on their best shooting units.
It just feels so bad, I'd love to use KillaKans; but I'm honestly not sure if there's a reason anymore - 3x DeffDreads will be much better in melee, more likely to get in close combat (as a result of Evil Sunz and 3x charge rolls for a squad of 3), and the loss of shooting can be replaced by other units in the army. -- I'm sure they're still decent enough to run, but, it FEELS like "what's the point?".
It seems that NONE of the people who have a codex are on Dakka.
*cough cough*
Spoiler:
Well, my entire army is basically useless now.
What really pisses me of, is that in all the faction focus stuff they constantly talk about Gretchin with Kukture, like at the end of the Snakebites one:
"...some ‘hardy’ Snakebites Gretchin will do your clan proud (as everyone knows that the best Runtherdz are Snakebites)..."
Yeah, and they also advertised Iron Hands Contemptor Dreadnoughts with 2x 6+++ rolls; which worked for a bit - only to be changed shortly afterwards.
I don't like that they removed GRETCHIN from getting Kultur; it kills so many lists, for no real reason. The only unit that got excessive bonuses from kultur was the MekGunz, and that's only because of Deathskulls kultur. BadMoonz RR1's was the second best, but even then; it's really not that strong - every army has access to RR1's on their best shooting units.
It just feels so bad, I'd love to use KillaKans; but I'm honestly not sure if there's a reason anymore - 3x DeffDreads will be much better in melee, more likely to get in close combat (as a result of Evil Sunz and 3x charge rolls for a squad of 3), and the loss of shooting can be replaced by other units in the army. -- I'm sure they're still decent enough to run, but, it FEELS like "what's the point?".
I agree, it just kinda feels off. I know SM dont get it on vehicles which is also weird but it just doesnt seem to fit with orks because they try to justify it with a fluffy reason which doesnt really make sense. Were they worried about grots being too durable with a 6++ or 6+++?
A unit of Gretchin is 5/3 CP for 30pts. A unit of mek gunz is a reliable shooting unit in an Ork army. A unit of Killa Kanz is now a unit that rewards you for taking a big unit and babysitting them down the field vs a unit that you just take one of and fling at an enemy.
Dreds and kanz finally aren't stomping on each other's toes with one (usually Kanz) 100% always the better choice.
I’m still confused i thought we were pretty clear that units of only Gretchin models don’t get kulturs.
Which like goatboy said means Mek guns still do!
Kans are shooty and dreads are melee that’s how it’s alsys been.
It probably was an oversight, but it states pretty clearly that you may replace the sluggas and the Choppa.
Isn't that the same language that allows a boy to trade his slugga+choppa for a shoota? I guess the Nob says he can exchange it for "weapons..." and the boy entry is strictly singular on the shoota.
Doctoralex wrote: Greetings, spawn of the Old Ones!
Necron player here, with a battlereport vs an Ork army /w ‘codex’ (my opponent basically scrapped all the leaks together to already play with it).
Here’s the battlereport, enjoy!
2000 points
Lists:
Spoiler:
My list:
Necron Battalion, Mephrit
HQ:
Illuminor Szeras, Warlord
Overlord /w Staff of Light, Veil of Darkness
Troops:
2x 20 Warriors
10 Immortals /w Tesla
Elite:
Triach Stalker /w Heat Ray
Fast attack:
2x 4 Scarabs
6x Destroyers
Heavy supp:
2x DDA Transcendant C’tan (rolled a 1 and a 2 on his split personality upgrades!!)
Ork list:
Evil Sunz battalion, 2x spearhead
HQ:
Trike
Warboss on bike /w relic killy klaw, warlord
Weirdboy (upgraded to a Warphead)
Big mek /w KFF
Heavy supp:
5x Mek gun /w Traktor kannon
Bonebreaka battlewagon (meganobz went in here)
Battlewagon /w deffrolla (tankbusta and KKF mek went in here)
Gorkanaut
I deployed everything close to eachother, the Scarabs up front followed by the Warrior blobs.
The orks deployed as close to the front as possible, the Gorkanaut went in the Tellyporta.
Orks, turn 1:
Everything, and i mean EVERYTHING advanced forward (ok, not the mek gunz) and BOY are Evil Sunz fast!
The battlewagons and bikerbosses went as close to my line as possible. Trukk went after them, but stayed midfield to control an objective.
Bikes went to a flank to claim an objective.
Weirdboy (now a Warphead) gave the Boyz+1 attack and Da Jumped them to a flank.
Ork shooting took out the Scarab screen. Tankbustas did 6 wounds to a DDA (with More Dakka, but the QS stratagem really did its job).
The Mek Gunz did absolutely nothing vs the wounded DDA.. 3 of them failed to wound, and the 2D6 take the highest was terrible vs QS.
At this point I thought: ‘alright, I got one turn of shooting before he can charge me’’. Uuuuntil i realised the Trike gave all those battlewagons advance and charge!!
So yea, all the Warriors were locked in combat.
Boyz charged another Warrior Blob, +1 to charge and re-roll any dice was very useful here.
Warboss on bike failed his charge on the Destroyers, that was pretty important.
Bonebreaka charged the Stalker.
We tried to simulate the Boyz on 32” bases, so not all of them got to fight. Still managed to get 100 attacks, which killed 19! Warriors. This many casualties meant the Battlewagon couldn’t finish them off.
The Bonebreaka did 5 wounds to the Stalker. My opponent wanted to save CP, but Boarding Action could have finished it off.
Necrons, turn 1:
The lone warrior was thankfully no longer locked in combat due to the large amount of casualties, and 9 of his buddies reanimated.
Warriors stayed put, one blob had to fall back. Immortals shuffled a bit towards the flank with the boyz, everything else stayed put. C’tan moved towards the Warboss on bike.
Overlord gave the Immortals MWBD, Szeras upgraded the freshly reanimated Warriors to T5.
Then came the Necron shooting... wauw what a retaliation.
First off... 10 Immortals with MWBD and AP-1 thanks to Mephrit killed all 30 boyz!!
One DDA against the Bonebreaka rolled a 6 on his shots! Followed by 5 1’s on his to hit roll..... Still, that one wound did 6 dmg, so it was a rollercoaster of emotions with that thing!
Other DDA finished the Bonebreaka, the Meganobz jumped out.
The small Warrior blob and the Gauss Flayers from the DDA killed the Trike.
Destroyers did 8 wounds to the Battlewagon, KFF absolutely saved it’s skin there.
And finally, C’tan charged the Warboss on bike and absolutely slaughtered him. My Opponent could have made the Boss fight upon death, but the 3++ made him decide against it.
Orks, turn 2.
Tankbustas stayed put, the battlewagon they were in shuffled foward.
Shoots in the trukk jumped out and moved up, trukk stayed behind for the objective.
Meganobz moved foward towards the Destroyers.
Bikers went after the Triach Stalker.
Gorkanaut teleported in on the same flank the Boyz used to be.
Weirdboy tried to Da Jump himself, but the power got denied by Szeras. He then gave the shoota boyz +1A.
The Gorkanaut and the Mek Gunz killed 3 destroyers.
Dakka from the Meganobz, bikes and shoota boyz killed 8 Warriors from the biggest blob.
Tankbustas were now within 6”, so my opponent decided to combo More Dakka with Extra Stikkbombs.
He did a total of 9 wounds to the DDA, leaving it at one wound. Again, Improved QS was amazing.
We simulated the same attack vs a Casstellan Knight with 3++, just to see what it did. The Tankbustas would have done 16 wounds to a Knight, not too shabby.
Gorkanaut charged the Immortals.
Meganobz charged the Destroyers.
Bikes the Stalker.
And shoota boyz the previously shot necron blob.
Gorkanaut killed 8 Immortals, a bit dissapointing considering it had 18 attacks.
Meganobz killed 2 Destroyers, and my opponent let an audible groans as he knew that all those Destoyers could now be reanimated >.
Despite being 12 shoota boyz, they were suprisingly effective in melee thanks to Warpath. They finished of a Warrior blob.
Bikers brought the Stalker down to 1 wound.
Necrons, turn 2.
Bah, the Reanimations went very poor this turn. 10 man Warrior blob only got 2 back, and out of the 5 destroyers only 1 managed to get back up.
The immortals faired a bit better, getting 5 out of the 8 casualties back.
The warrior blob stayed put, since they were gonna teleport out with the Veil so that they could still shoot. Immortals stayed put, since the Meganobz were right in front of them.
Destroyers fell back to shoot at the Meganobz.
C’tan moved up to claim the mid-field objective.
With the Stalker and one DDA having to fall back (and the other DDA being dead) my anti-tank was as good as gone. Though there was still a Battlewagon and a Gorkanaut right up in my face!
This left the infantry. Combined fire from the Destroyers and the immortals killed 2 Meganobz. In cover these bastards are quite tough!
The Veil’d Warriors finished the 12 Shoota boyz.
And in a last desperate move, Szeras and the Immortals charged the Meganobz. Bad idea; the Meganobz took 0 dmg and snipped Szeras in half like a piece of paper.
At this point I unfortunately had to go due to time, but the game was over anyway. The next ork turn the Destroyers, Immortals, Stalker and DDA would have all died, leaving the C’tan, Warriors and Overlord to be cleaned up the turn thereafter.
Post-game Thoughts:
Orks are definitely not a joke anymore. Almost all units my oppponent threw at me were of equal threat due to their speed. The two battlewagons, the Gorkanaut, the 30 unit.... it was very difficult for me to prioritize the biggest target.
Though Mephrit small-arms cut through the ork infantry like a hit knife through butter, their vehicles are tough as nails. Though with the Stalker being locked in combat from turn 1, not all my anti-tank got to shoot.
Still, I definitely expected both Battlewagons to fall in my first turn, but between a KFF and one battlewagon being T8, I underestimated their survivability!
It’s a shame the Warboss /w the Killy Klaw failed his charge, he really would have done a number on the Destroyers.
The Dakka Dakka rule overal felt.... ok. It gave. A bit more oompf to the overal Ork shooting, but I believe it still remains a close-combate orientated army.
All in all it was a very fun match and I look forward to battle the Greenskins again!
koooaei wrote: I'm planning to create a deepstrike fest. 10 manz and 3 dreads. That's no less than 795 pts (no point to ds weaker dreads) but that might be ok for 1500 pt games.
795 pts is more than half the 1500 so good luck finding opponent allowing you to bypass the matched play rule.
Isn't it dependant on pl only? Cause i'm pretty sure i can fit this in pl.
Isn't it dependant on pl only? Cause i'm pretty sure i can fit this in pl.
Warhammer fall FAQ wrote:at least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined points value of all the units you set up on the battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within Tr ansports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your army’s total points value, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere
It got changed in the fall FAQ. No more PL at all and instead points. So you are slightly off the limit.
Not sure what I feel about that change. OTOH it certainly makes more sense in that if your army is built by points use points and not PL. OTOH now if you build by PL it makes no sense and makes it harder to figure out ad-hoc so need to calculate combinations more in advance what kind of DS combos you can do.
Here's btw 1st list I'm planning for next tuesday assuming I can assemble the bike HQ in a one night(will be able to start assembling it around 8pm monday)
Battallion: evil sunz
trike hq(warlord, brutal but kunning, super cybork body)
warboss(power klaw(maybe the relic. Not sure about do I want to spend CP as it's bit thin)
weirdboy(da jump)
30xboyz(big choppa, go to deep strike)
30xboyz(power klaw, go to deep strike)
10xgretchin
6xbikes(power klaw nob)
gorkanaut
Battallion: (bad moon in 1750 pts version, death skull in 2000)
2xweirdboy(da jump, fist of gork)
30xboyz(if bad moons all shootas and power klaw, if death skull 19 shootas and big choppa. Either way T1 da jumped to clear screens for deep strikers)
2x29 grots
runtherd
That's the 1750 pts version. For 2000 add 15 lootas(these are why clan changes. Bad moons would be better for the boyz role of da jumping but lootas are in death skull colours so...), change the boy weapon to big choppa and add 1 grot somewhere(5 pts to spare)
13 CP, 6 goes to deep strikes right away so 7 to spend elsewhere which is why doubtful do I want power klaw relic on foot warboss. If he had bike would be better but I rarely have my warbosses attacking ANYTHING so relic klaw could be kind of a waste. I could put in warboss into deep strike albeit but 2 CP's is bit of steep for that...
I have a 2k list I've priced out. It's more fluffy than anything but I think it still has teeth. It also uses all the new buggies except the Squig Trukk, which I deem unviable.
Outrider, Evil Sunz
Deffkilla wartrike, warlord super cybork body (not decided trait)
12 x warbikes, big choppa Nob
KBB Scrap jet
Brigade, Evil Sunz
KFF Big Mek (index)
Weirdboy (warphead) Da Jump, Fists of Gork
Zhadsnark
3 x 10 boys
3 x 10 grots
SJD Snazzwagon
Deffkopta
Mek (rezmekka red armour, in bone breaka)
Painboy
5 x Nobz (PK, BC x 4, ammo runt, also in bone breaka)
Bone breaka
5 x lootas
5 x lootas
Name of the game is turn 1 and 2 target saturation. I'm hoping firepower will clear a screen allowing me a juicy charge turn 1. Definitely need the 2 CP cover strat if I go second. Bone breaka teleports in turn 2 and causes carnage. Was thinking of taking evil Sunz warlord trait for Deffkilla but it feels like a bit of a waste. Grots, Lootas and some boys hold backfield as required. Weirdboy can send units to objectives or sure up weaknesses and, I really want to cast fists of Gork on the Wartrike because 7 str 9 2+ attacks with reroll failed wounds -2 AP and d3 DMG sounds hot. So he could da jump himself to make it happen. Or painboy if he needs healing. Deffkopta is there to be a flying pest.
gungo wrote: I’m still confused i thought we were pretty clear that units of only Gretchin models don’t get kulturs.
Which like goatboy said means Mek guns still do!
Kans are shooty and dreads are melee that’s how it’s alsys been.
Based on current codex information; meek gunz have the Gretchin tag, and are now single models (no more squads). As a result, Mek gunz are comprised of only Gretchin models, so do not get culture. Same with killa kanz.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I have a 2k list I've priced out. It's more fluffy than anything but I think it still has teeth. It also uses all the new buggies except the Squig Trukk, which I deem unviable.
Outrider, Evil Sunz
Deffkilla wartrike, warlord super cybork body (not decided trait)
12 x warbikes, big choppa Nob
KBB Scrap jet
Brigade, Evil Sunz
KFF Big Mek (index)
Weirdboy (warphead) Da Jump, Fists of Gork
Zhadsnark
3 x 10 boys
3 x 10 grots
SJD Snazzwagon
Deffkopta
Mek (rezmekka red armour, in bone breaka)
Painboy
5 x Nobz (PK, BC x 4, ammo runt, also in bone breaka)
Bone breaka
5 x lootas
5 x lootas
Name of the game is turn 1 and 2 target saturation. I'm hoping firepower will clear a screen allowing me a juicy charge turn 1. Definitely need the 2 CP cover strat if I go second. Bone breaka teleports in turn 2 and causes carnage. Was thinking of taking evil Sunz warlord trait for Deffkilla but it feels like a bit of a waste. Grots, Lootas and some boys hold backfield as required. Weirdboy can send units to objectives or sure up weaknesses and, I really want to cast fists of Gork on the Wartrike because 7 str 9 2+ attacks with reroll failed wounds -2 AP and d3 DMG sounds hot. So he could da jump himself to make it happen. Or painboy if he needs healing. Deffkopta is there to be a flying pest.
Thoughts? Warlord trait suggestions?
If your transport deepstrikes, the passengers cannot disembark in the same turn.
Unfortunately I don't see the point of lootas, except perhaps in a large mob with the bad moons "shoot twice" stratagem.
So... despite the points nerfs I still suspect the green tide we were running before might still have received a buff overall. For me the stratagems and clan kulturs are the best bits of the ork codex, with the relics and warlord traits being a bit meh.
Buffs:
klan traits (notably evil suns for jumpers and deffskulls or goffs for main battle line) Improved ere we go Dakka dakka dakka Grot shields strat to protect key unit T1 Tankbusta bombs on boyz mobz Endless green tide strat Weirdboyz can be warpheadz and no longer auto-perils when in centre of the horde Tellyport Fight again strat Ard boyz / skarboyz / loot it strats depending on opponent
So hows this for a green tide list?
Deathskulls bat.
Warboss with PK Warboss with PK
30 boyz with PK + rokkit 30 boyz with PK + rokkit 30 boyz with PK + rokkit Index kannon (to be blown up turn 1 by enemy and trigger the 'loot it' strat
Evil sunz bat
Weirdboy with jump Weirdboy with extra attack power (mental blank on name)
30 boyz PK 10 boyz PK 10 gretchin 30 stormboyz with PK 282pts (grot shields should protect turn 1)
Bad moonz patrol Index warboss on bike with thunderbuss relic 10 tankbustas (will tellyport, use more dakka and fire twice!) 30 gretchin
The main advantage of death skullz (outside of the 6++) is non troop infantry choices to have obj secured, and the rerolls. You generally want more units and less masses when playing deathskullz to maximize the possible 12 rerolls a game turn.
The massive boyz mobz would probably be better served in an evil suns battallion for the +3 distance. (so they aren't as reliant on jump to get where they need to go)
greggles wrote: The main advantage of death skullz (outside of the 6++) is non troop infantry choices to have obj secured, and the rerolls. You generally want more units and less masses when playing deathskullz to maximize the possible 12 rerolls a game turn.
The massive boyz mobz would probably be better served in an evil suns battallion for the +3 distance. (so they aren't as reliant on jump to get where they need to go)
greggles wrote: The main advantage of death skullz (outside of the 6++) is non troop infantry choices to have obj secured, and the rerolls. You generally want more units and less masses when playing deathskullz to maximize the possible 12 rerolls a game turn.
The massive boyz mobz would probably be better served in an evil suns battallion for the +3 distance. (so they aren't as reliant on jump to get where they need to go)
12 rerolls?
Think he means: "3 rerolls total when you shoot in your turn(to hit, to wound, damage roll), 3 rerolls when you fight in your turn(ditto), 3 when you shoot during overwatch in opponents turn and 3 when you fight in opponents turn".
That at least adds up to 12 and I think that's legal though super hard to pull off. Usually you won't be rerolling that much!
greggles wrote: The main advantage of death skullz (outside of the 6++) is non troop infantry choices to have obj secured, and the rerolls. You generally want more units and less masses when playing deathskullz to maximize the possible 12 rerolls a game turn.
The massive boyz mobz would probably be better served in an evil suns battallion for the +3 distance. (so they aren't as reliant on jump to get where they need to go)
Yeah, the deathskulls are mainly there for the 6++ tbh. Having a full re-roll rokkit plus plenty of rerolls on the PK is a pretty powerful boost too though. I'm sure evils suns would work fine but I don't think it's flatly superior to the deathskulls trait for boyz mobz. Just depends whether you want bonus speed or bonus durability and damage output.
I think if I took evil suns I'd shell out for a KFF biker mek to keep them safe as they roll up. That could certainly work too, but the mek(s) are pretty expensive so it does have an opportunity cost.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I have a 2k list I've priced out. It's more fluffy than anything but I think it still has teeth. It also uses all the new buggies except the Squig Trukk, which I deem unviable.
Outrider, Evil Sunz
Deffkilla wartrike, warlord super cybork body (not decided trait)
12 x warbikes, big choppa Nob
KBB Scrap jet
Brigade, Evil Sunz
KFF Big Mek (index)
Weirdboy (warphead) Da Jump, Fists of Gork
Zhadsnark
3 x 10 boys
3 x 10 grots
SJD Snazzwagon
Deffkopta
Mek (rezmekka red armour, in bone breaka)
Painboy
5 x Nobz (PK, BC x 4, ammo runt, also in bone breaka)
Bone breaka
5 x lootas
5 x lootas
Name of the game is turn 1 and 2 target saturation. I'm hoping firepower will clear a screen allowing me a juicy charge turn 1. Definitely need the 2 CP cover strat if I go second. Bone breaka teleports in turn 2 and causes carnage. Was thinking of taking evil Sunz warlord trait for Deffkilla but it feels like a bit of a waste. Grots, Lootas and some boys hold backfield as required. Weirdboy can send units to objectives or sure up weaknesses and, I really want to cast fists of Gork on the Wartrike because 7 str 9 2+ attacks with reroll failed wounds -2 AP and d3 DMG sounds hot. So he could da jump himself to make it happen. Or painboy if he needs healing. Deffkopta is there to be a flying pest.
Thoughts? Warlord trait suggestions?
I would use full 15 warbikers, since those will be the ones clearing screens for you. The additional shots and cc attacks make sure that whatever you charge won't be hitting back on your highly expensive models.
As warlord trait I would suggest the +1 to attacks and strength, as that would push the wartrike to S8 for vehicle fighting.
Think he means: "3 rerolls total when you shoot in your turn(to hit, to wound, damage roll), 3 rerolls when you fight in your turn(ditto), 3 when you shoot during overwatch in opponents turn and 3 when you fight in opponents turn".
Yup, hard as heck to pull off, but hey, it's possible, and everyone loves the "maximum possibility stuff".
Since the traits got leaked, I've been playing them all, and death skullz has come out on top almost every time (for the main force). Evil sunz for teleporting detachments. Bad moonz was just a horrible slog of re-rolling. It sounds awesome on paper, and is, until you actually play a game with large mobs of shooting. If you don't have a dice app, you'll run out of time. (Think tau shooting phase + ork assault phase)
They didn’t improve zhardsnark much. Added speed freak and dakka dakka dakka but limited his Waaaghh to evil sun infantry only...however since his point values remained unchanged he is an absolute steal and value...
They did have the foresight to clarify you can use the weapon profiles in the codex orks meaning killkannon meka dreads are decent as well.
Soo, the Bonebreaka seems to be the best variant of the Battlewagon? I don't own any Battlewagons yet but I was thinking of filling two Bonebreakas with Nobz (or why not 20 Boyz) and regular Battlewagon with Tankbustas. Is this something that might work or am I wasting my money by buying the wagons? Evil Sunz detachment obviously with the Trike.
That's quite disappointing they didn't FAQ Zhadsnark to effect Warbikers, when I use him I'll probably just pair him up with an Index Warboss on Warbike.
Weazel wrote: Soo, the Bonebreaka seems to be the best variant of the Battlewagon? I don't own any Battlewagons yet but I was thinking of filling two Bonebreakas with Nobz (or why not 20 Boyz) and regular Battlewagon with Tankbustas. Is this something that might work or am I wasting my money by buying the wagons? Evil Sunz detachment obviously with the Trike.
Rmember that the bonebreaka is transport capacity 12
xlDuke wrote: That's quite disappointing they didn't FAQ Zhadsnark to effect Warbikers, when I use him I'll probably just pair him up with an Index Warboss on Warbike.
I'm not disappointed about it at all - it means I can run him right alongside the Wartrike and I won't have to have any foot bosses. I get bikers, vehicles, and infantry with the pair of them.
So I'm just jumping into the faction and wanted to learn from my Orky betters before I got too deep in model building:
1) How necessary/beneficial is Evil Sunz Kulture for Speedfreeks? I'd rather have the DeffSkullz, but I'm wondering if I'm tieing my hands too much if I do
2) When using Warbikes/buggies is there value is standing off and shooting or is melee the only viable option?
3) Does Trukk/Battlewagon transport rushes work with boyz? Is it worth the points to load 20boyz into a battlewagon to get them to melee?
4) Is it better to go brigade or double-battalion?
ChargerIIC wrote: So I'm just jumping into the faction and wanted to learn from my Orky betters before I got too deep in model building:
1) How necessary/beneficial is Evil Sunz Kulture for Speedfreeks? I'd rather have the DeffSkullz, but I'm wondering if I'm tieing my hands too much if I do
2) When using Warbikes/buggies is there value is standing off and shooting or is melee the only viable option?
3) Does Trukk/Battlewagon transport rushes work with boyz? Is it worth the points to load 20boyz into a battlewagon to get them to melee?
4) Is it better to go brigade or double-battalion?
1) for infantrv essential. Vehicles less sl 2) bikes want to do both. Buggies generally want to avoid melee if not blood axe to ensure you can shoot next round too
3) for boy" deep strike with evil sun better. Probledm with battlewagon is you won't be getting extra attacj from numbers
4) 2 battallions is my pick
They didn’t improve zhardsnark much. Added speed freak and dakka dakka dakka but limited his Waaaghh to evil sun infantry only...however since his point values remained unchanged he is an absolute steal and value...
They did have the foresight to clarify you can use the weapon profiles in the codex orks meaning killkannon meka dreads are decent as well.
Clan is also the same as kultur
Wow so disappointing he can't advance and charge. I think I'll have to run him as a regular warboss.
They didn’t improve zhardsnark much. Added speed freak and dakka dakka dakka but limited his Waaaghh to evil sun infantry only...however since his point values remained unchanged he is an absolute steal and value...
They did have the foresight to clarify you can use the weapon profiles in the codex orks meaning killkannon meka dreads are decent as well.
Clan is also the same as kultur
Wow so disappointing he can't advance and charge. I think I'll have to run him as a regular warboss.
The Trike Boss allows bikers to charge after advancing correct? I feel like ill likely be running both so its not a huge loss Z doesnt give it out to himself.
Yeah trike boss works on bikes/vehicles.
And quite frankly that thing is brutal. Unless youre green tiding it i dont see why you would not have him in your army.
Here is what I think is a really terrible list; but it might do okay if you can get the nob bikerz to survive and do some work.
Spoiler:
Evil Sunz Battalion
Nob on Warbike w/PK Nob on Warbike w/PK Nob on Warbike w/PK Nob on Warbike w/PK Nob on Warbike w/PK Nob on Warbike w/BC Nob on Warbike w/BC Nob on Warbike w/BC Nob on Warbike w/BC Nob on Warbike w/BC
Gretchin x10
Gretchin x10
Gretchin x10
Warboss w/ Bike: Power Klaw (relic)
Weirdboy
Weirdboy
Death Skullz Battilion
Shoota Boyz
Shoota Boyz
Slugga/Choppa Boyz
They didn’t improve zhardsnark much. Added speed freak and dakka dakka dakka but limited his Waaaghh to evil sun infantry only...however since his point values remained unchanged he is an absolute steal and value...
They did have the foresight to clarify you can use the weapon profiles in the codex orks meaning killkannon meka dreads are decent as well.
Clan is also the same as kultur
Wow so disappointing he can't advance and charge. I think I'll have to run him as a regular warboss.
The Trike Boss allows bikers to charge after advancing correct? I feel like ill likely be running both so its not a huge loss Z doesnt give it out to himself.
As well as warboss on bike (w relic klaw for me)
I’ll be running all 3
Along w painboy on bike w lukky stikk.
And evilsun mekadread with killkannon/kff or Morkanaut.
4 fast hard hitting fast accurate powerklaws w at least 4+, 5++, 5+++.
Vineheart01 wrote: Yeah trike boss works on bikes/vehicles.
And quite frankly that thing is brutal. Unless youre green tiding it i dont see why you would not have him in your army.
Yea, you need some kind of boss, and he's not much more expensive than any of our other options now, so you might as well have him and waaaagh your vehicles.
They didn’t improve zhardsnark much. Added speed freak and dakka dakka dakka but limited his Waaaghh to evil sun infantry only...however since his point values remained unchanged he is an absolute steal and value...
They did have the foresight to clarify you can use the weapon profiles in the codex orks meaning killkannon meka dreads are decent as well.
Clan is also the same as kultur
Wow so disappointing he can't advance and charge. I think I'll have to run him as a regular warboss.
The Trike Boss allows bikers to charge after advancing correct? I feel like ill likely be running both so its not a huge loss Z doesnt give it out to himself.
As well as warboss on bike (w relic klaw for me)
I’ll be running all 3
Along w painboy on bike w lukky stikk.
And evilsun mekadread with killkannon/kff or Morkanaut.
4 fast hard hitting fast accurate powerklaws w at least 4+, 5++, 5+++.
I don't like the trike' s melee weapon, if it was a klaw id pick one up tomorrow. H9w did you convert your warboss on bike, regular bikes a bit small?
I'm building an ork army, looking at battle reports till now, I think boyz-spam isn't that good, and I don't know how to make a 1000-1500 points army, this is what I've got.
Kebabcito wrote: I'm building an ork army, looking at battle reports till now, I think boyz-spam isn't that good, and I don't know how to make a 1000-1500 points army, this is what I've got.
xlDuke wrote: That's quite disappointing they didn't FAQ Zhadsnark to effect Warbikers, when I use him I'll probably just pair him up with an Index Warboss on Warbike.
This is how Ive done it since the faq allowing Biker bosses to affect bikers. Ill probably now use Zhadsnark and the trike with a nearby KFF biker mek with a large mob of bikes. I may even try out nob bikers. I still think using lots S5 attacks from the nobz is effective. Im hoping they got a pts drop like the warbikers did. Im super excited to get my biker list back out.
They didn’t improve zhardsnark much. Added speed freak and dakka dakka dakka but limited his Waaaghh to evil sun infantry only...however since his point values remained unchanged he is an absolute steal and value...
They did have the foresight to clarify you can use the weapon profiles in the codex orks meaning killkannon meka dreads are decent as well.
Clan is also the same as kultur
Wow so disappointing he can't advance and charge. I think I'll have to run him as a regular warboss.
The Trike Boss allows bikers to charge after advancing correct? I feel like ill likely be running both so its not a huge loss Z doesnt give it out to himself.
As well as warboss on bike (w relic klaw for me)
I’ll be running all 3
Along w painboy on bike w lukky stikk.
And evilsun mekadread with killkannon/kff or Morkanaut.
4 fast hard hitting fast accurate powerklaws w at least 4+, 5++, 5+++.
I don't like the trike' s melee weapon, if it was a klaw id pick one up tomorrow. H9w did you convert your warboss on bike, regular bikes a bit small?
I have 9 warbikers
3 fw nob bikers
And zhardsnark
One of the regular bikes can have a bosspole however I don’t use those as a warboss on bike. (I tend to add a boss pole (not glued) and call it the nob w bc he also has a a very large axe)
Fw has the zhardsnark model (if I don’t use zhardsnark rules that’s my warboss on bike w pk)
When I do use zhardsnark I also have 3 of fw nobs on warbikers models (2 w PK, 1 big choppa) they are bulkier) (I also have a ork medic banner I got from 3rd party minature company when I want to use one of the klaw nobs as a painboy)
Between those 13 models I can cover many combinations. All I need to swap out is a banner sometimes.
My original build was
Zhardsnark
Warboss on bike w pk Painboy on bike
Nob w bc
9x warbikers
Kebabcito wrote: I'm building an ork army, looking at battle reports till now, I think boyz-spam isn't that good, and I don't know how to make a 1000-1500 points army, this is what I've got.
I could go battlewagon+10 tankbustas, but I'm not sure about this, any tip?
Looks like evil sun deep striking boyz. Maybe nobs in 1500 as well or have them in battlewagon. Or da jump. Either way evil sun or you are in trouble
So, for my army (lot of infantry) evil sunz is the way to go, as I expected, thanks.
To reach 1500 I though about buying 1 more deffkopta and making a Outrider battalion (+1 CP as far as I remember), mek with KFF, warboss and a battlewagon +10 tankbustas.
Maybe this comp is too weak to 1500 points are I will get super stomped lol
mhalko1 wrote: I had another thought. About how the upgrade to skarboyz affects ork boyz mobs ability to destroy a knight.
Going from S4 to S5 means you are now wounding on 5s instead of 6s.
Wanted to know if this would be viable at all?
30 skarboyz do about 8 wounds to a knight, which is neat but actually getting the 30 into cc with the knight untouched is basically impossible without a lucky da jump charge (no evil suns bonus here so hard to count on) and you most likely lose a handful in overwatch too
mhalko1 wrote: I had another thought. About how the upgrade to skarboyz affects ork boyz mobs ability to destroy a knight.
Going from S4 to S5 means you are now wounding on 5s instead of 6s.
Wanted to know if this would be viable at all?
I would say so. I plan on trying this out soon as well. I have killed a knight in two rds of combat before with ghaz and weirdboy buffing their attacks. I killed it in 2 rds of combat and that was with S4 and Ghz didn't even help since he targeted Ghaz and killed him instead if the boys. Now I did this when both armies were index but I think it could still definitely be done. I just watched a battle report from tabletop assault that used Goffs with Ghaz buffing them and they threw 140+ dice at a 30 man squad of bloodletters before the Goffs exploding dice and deleted them. ( I know a knight is tougher then blooletters im just saying) I imagine it will be harder now, if tournaments force the 32mm base requirement on boys, to fit them all into the combat. Just make sure you buff them with Warpath and have Ghaz nearby. if you really want to hurt them in combat use a banner nob to make them Hit on 2s and if you run them instead of using da jump then use grots as a shield on the way in.
I don't think there is any upgrade related reason for why it only carries 12. GW probably made it carry 12 so there is a niche for a vanilla Battlewagon as dedicated transport
Shinzra wrote: Hello all, quick question regarding Meganobz.
Picked up a box for the big mex and decided a unit of 5 especially with the points reductions would not be a bad unit.
What sort of loadout (I realise the new dex is not out yet, but based on reviews/batreps/leaks), would be best to equip them with?
I originally thought just power klaw and the shooter to keep them relatively cheap.
appreciate any thoughts
upgrading to saws is good if you're going to be fighting vehicles. If youre facing hordes you could put them in a transport , make them bad moons with the kombi flamer and shoot it twice with the strat.
I would use full 15 warbikers, since those will be the ones clearing screens for you. The additional shots and cc attacks make sure that whatever you charge won't be hitting back on your highly expensive models.
As warlord trait I would suggest the +1 to attacks and strength, as that would push the wartrike to S8 for vehicle fighting.
Can we still take 15 bikes? Thought it was limited to 12 now? Good idea if we can though.
Yea I think you're right with WL trait. I don't think retreating and recharging will be useful or as efficient.
It's a shame about Zhadsnark and it makes no sense from a fluff perspective. Disappointing.
I would use full 15 warbikers, since those will be the ones clearing screens for you. The additional shots and cc attacks make sure that whatever you charge won't be hitting back on your highly expensive models.
As warlord trait I would suggest the +1 to attacks and strength, as that would push the wartrike to S8 for vehicle fighting.
Can we still take 15 bikes? Thought it was limited to 12 now? Good idea if we can though.
Yea I think you're right with WL trait. I don't think retreating and recharging will be useful or as efficient.
It's a shame about Zhadsnark and it makes no sense from a fluff perspective. Disappointing.
The hateon the rules people have for FW is kind of ridiculous at this point.
So my friend won a local tourney and is very kindly giving me a speed freaks box for the cost of a couple of new models for him.
I'll use the shock jump for sure. But I'm sure, how good to people think bikes are now for the points? Don't they suffer from the same problems as before?
mrtomski wrote: So my friend won a local tourney and is very kindly giving me a speed freaks box for the cost of a couple of new models for him.
I'll use the shock jump for sure. But I'm sure, how good to people think bikes are now for the points? Don't they suffer from the same problems as before?
They do but i think the points dropped helped a bit and could be useful as an option in an outrider now. even if its as a cheap option.
mrtomski wrote: So my friend won a local tourney and is very kindly giving me a speed freaks box for the cost of a couple of new models for him.
I'll use the shock jump for sure. But I'm sure, how good to people think bikes are now for the points? Don't they suffer from the same problems as before?
I'm not very experienced so take this with a pinch of salt. I can't say if the point drop made them "worth" it but they can now use the Exhaust Fumes strat if you are death balling them so their survivability was slightly increased. That with the drop might make them reasonable effective. On top of that they also get Klan traits now so they can close the gap even faster or get some extra durability (Evil Sunz & Snakebites/Deathskulls respectively).
TedNugent wrote: Bonebreaka I believe only has a 12 man transport capacity.
Also, why update Imperial Armor, but not the index?
Kind of conspicuous. Makes me wonder about official support.
It is exceptionally annoying, and conspicuous, that Zhadsnark has no biker waaagh.
Likely for the same reason GW is no longer printing imperium 1 or xenos 1, the index was a temporary list- they plan to phase them out along with the units/options that don't go from index to codex.
nobody can shoot out of the bonebreaka so its only going to transport a KFF mek or melee units. The hard top removes opentopped rule and does not add in a limited one like we had in previous editions where SOME could still shoot.
10 nobz jumping out of that thing sounds good to me.
i actually didnt even know it was Heavy6 before.
The heck did they nerf it for? It was bad before that change anyway. Only time ive ever used it was on my gargqsuig because its like ~35pts difference between a killkannon and a supalobba lol
mrtomski wrote: So my friend won a local tourney and is very kindly giving me a speed freaks box for the cost of a couple of new models for him.
I'll use the shock jump for sure. But I'm sure, how good to people think bikes are now for the points? Don't they suffer from the same problems as before?
I'm personally going to try the Nob Bikers to have something to charge along with my Trikeboss. Evil Sunz should give both a very reasonable chance to make it in T1. Would've liked to try a Bonebreaka but I don't have a Battlewagon yet and my wallet says no So PK Nob Bikerz it is for now.
They didn’t improve zhardsnark much. Added speed freak and dakka dakka dakka but limited his Waaaghh to evil sun infantry only...however since his point values remained unchanged he is an absolute steal and value...
They did have the foresight to clarify you can use the weapon profiles in the codex orks meaning killkannon meka dreads are decent as well.
Clan is also the same as kultur
Hum, I guess that means I need to spam GW with messages asking whether this goes for T'au too. Aeldari and Orks can use codex versions but RAW T'au and Nids can't and I want to get a Barracuda at some point (but with D3 overcharged CIBs and Seeker Missiles that only do a single mortal wound I'm much better off simply getting 2 Razorsharks... I like the Barracuda model much better though)
That doesn’t matter the new faq says to use the codex weapons if you want. Hoping the codex upped the number of shots or lowered cost.
The rattler gun is also a good variant for the mekadread and uses the same model...
Does anyone have dimensions on all the new vehicles? My hobby budget won't support them right now (and my army doesn't let orks drive anyways) but I've got some conversion ideas I'd like to take a crack at...
Also, just a question for those of you who play tournaments -- how important is it for a 'bike' to be on a bike-shaped base? My first grot mono-wheel (aka warbike) is just about ready for basing. I think it will look silly on a standard bike base, but would something like a 40mm round be considered modeling for advantage? I will have to buy bases for the 'bikes' anyways, so I'm not limited to what I've got on hand.
Coh Magnussen wrote: Does anyone have dimensions on all the new vehicles? My hobby budget won't support them right now (and my army doesn't let orks drive anyways) but I've got some conversion ideas I'd like to take a crack at...
Also, just a question for those of you who play tournaments -- how important is it for a 'bike' to be on a bike-shaped base? My first grot mono-wheel (aka warbike) is just about ready for basing. I think it will look silly on a standard bike base, but would something like a 40mm round be considered modeling for advantage? I will have to buy bases for the 'bikes' anyways, so I'm not limited to what I've got on hand.
Shinzra wrote: Hello all, quick question regarding Meganobz.
Picked up a box for the big mex and decided a unit of 5 especially with the points reductions would not be a bad unit.
What sort of loadout (I realise the new dex is not out yet, but based on reviews/batreps/leaks), would be best to equip them with?
I originally thought just power klaw and the shooter to keep them relatively cheap.
appreciate any thoughts
I have played two games so far injecting some of the new rules with friends. 10 MANz with all pk/shootas with the tellyport strat is amazing. I make them evil sunz so only needing an 8" charge with RR. When I tell them the entire unit is only 350 points... the look I get is just to good. I plan on doing the same thing with 3 dreads. With a smaller unit, I could see running with double saws as a dedicated "that tank is ded" strike team.
mrtomski wrote: So my friend won a local tourney and is very kindly giving me a speed freaks box for the cost of a couple of new models for him.
I'll use the shock jump for sure. But I'm sure, how good to people think bikes are now for the points? Don't they suffer from the same problems as before?
I think they're too expensive for what they do but they are definitely better than they were.
They pay for their flexibility but specialise at nothing. A unit of 12 using the more dakka stratagem kills about 3 dark reapers in cover. Which seems a bit meh to me. The lack of AP really hurts them IMO. Damage 2 weapons slaughter them. They are fast though and can manage turn 1 charges no problem, move-shoot-move intrigues me to pick up objectives.
Pandabeer wrote: I'm personally going to try the Nob Bikers to have something to charge along with my Trikeboss. Evil Sunz should give both a very reasonable chance to make it in T1. Would've liked to try a Bonebreaka but I don't have a Battlewagon yet and my wallet says no So PK Nob Bikerz it is for now
I think Nob bikers are a trap. I tried them a ton before codex and they are far too pricey. Don't think they've dropped at all so they're a bit points sink and perfect turn 1 target if you don't go first.
Coh Magnussen wrote: Does anyone have dimensions on all the new vehicles? My hobby budget won't support them right now (and my army doesn't let orks drive anyways) but I've got some conversion ideas I'd like to take a crack at...
Also, just a question for those of you who play tournaments -- how important is it for a 'bike' to be on a bike-shaped base? My first grot mono-wheel (aka warbike) is just about ready for basing. I think it will look silly on a standard bike base, but would something like a 40mm round be considered modeling for advantage? I will have to buy bases for the 'bikes' anyways, so I'm not limited to what I've got on hand.
Buggies are on Questoris Knight-sized bases.
not quite actually...knights are on 170mm ovals...the new ork vehicles are on 150mm ovals
Pandabeer wrote: I'm personally going to try the Nob Bikers to have something to charge along with my Trikeboss. Evil Sunz should give both a very reasonable chance to make it in T1. Would've liked to try a Bonebreaka but I don't have a Battlewagon yet and my wallet says no So PK Nob Bikerz it is for now
I think Nob bikers are a trap. I tried them a ton before codex and they are far too pricey. Don't think they've dropped at all so they're a bit points sink and perfect turn 1 target if you don't go first.
They might well be, but they came in the Speed Freeks box so they're the only thing I have right now as a (re)starting Warboss I'd like to get 2 Skrapjets or a Bonebreaka along with my Trikeboss but my wallet forbids that at the moment. Only thing I'm going to buy alongside the codex and Wartrike that I pre-ordered last week is a Snazzwagon for anti-MEQ/GEQ purposes and other stuff will have to wait till December or after.
By that I mean to move up the board quickly and engage T1 hopefully.
I'm thinking trukk nobs might be a solid choice.
Bikers seem ok, but they are only hitting like boyz in cc which worries me, and if the primary use is just to tie something up in cc, perhaps a few deffcopters could do that better. Thoughts?
Trukk nobs are not engaging T1. Evil Sunz bikes with a Deffkilla is going to engage T1.
Because they're moving 16" base, plus D6"+1, plus 2D6" + 1 with reroll of one or both.
If engaging T1 is your concern, evil sunz bikers, or any of the new buggies with 14" movement speed base combined with a deffkilla should do it. They'd move an average of 20.5" before the charge, after unloading their assault weapons at 5+ BS.
That said, maybe that's not your concern. In my case, I'm strongly considering Bonebreaka battlewagons with nob squad in a Deathskulls detachment.
The question of whether evil sunz bikers and buggies engaging in turn 1 supported by an evil sunz warboss on bike would be effective is hard to say without some substantial playtesting.
TedNugent wrote: Trukk nobs are not engaging T1. Evil Sunz bikes with a Deffkilla is going to engage T1.
Because they're moving 16" base, plus D6"+1, plus 2D6" + 1 with reroll of one or both.
If engaging T1 is your concern, evil sunz bikers, or any of the new buggies with 14" movement speed base combined with a deffkilla should do it. They'd move an average of 20.5" before the charge, after unloading their assault weapons at 5+ BS.
That said, maybe that's not your concern. In my case, I'm strongly considering Bonebreaka battlewagons with nob squad in a Deathskulls detachment.
The question of whether evil sunz bikers and buggies engaging in turn 1 supported by an evil sunz warboss on bike would be effective is hard to say without some substantial playtesting.
Wouldn't evil suns deffkoptas be the fastest unit when accompanied by a trike? +2 move (with 14 base IIRC), auto advance of +7 and then +1 charge with rerolls?
IMO a few min units to tie up ranged threats sounds like it might come in handy.
hippyjr wrote: Wouldn't evil suns deffkoptas be the fastest unit when accompanied by a trike? +2 move (with 14 base IIRC), auto advance of +7 and then +1 charge with rerolls?
IMO a few min units to tie up ranged threats sounds like it might come in handy.
Took out the new Codex orks for the 1st time tonight. They outperformed my expectations. I had a few observations that might be helpful.
1) Loot it was more impactful than I expected. I went 2nd vs tau. Used the "Prepared positions" strategem to gain cover. The 1st casualty I took was a Trukk right next to a unit of 30 boyz. Loot it got them to a 4+ save which had a big impact on the game.
2) Gretchin are better than I thought. I wanted CP, so I ran brigade plus battallion including 7 min squads of gretchin. That is 210 points of gretchin, and boy were they worth it. Lots of objective scoring, screening, and board control. Not sure if the extra 35 pts for the runtherd was worth it.
3) Tracktor cannons are weird. I got one charged by a unit of tau crisis suites. Auto hit, 2D6 pick the highest, and a suite died to Overwatch.
4) More Dakka + Showoffs on a unit of tankbustas or lootas is pretty intense. 15 lootas started out of LOS, moved into it, popped those 2 strats and killed 22 fire warriors.
5) I had 20 CP. I had burned through them all by turn 3. Turn 1: 2 for Prepared positions, 2 for More Dakka, 2 for Show Offs, 3 to fight twice (and take a prisoner) with ork boyz. Turn 2: 2 for More Dakka, 2 for Show Offs, 3 for endless green tide. Turn 3: 2 for More Dakka, 2 for show offs, 1 for grot shield.
I faced off against 3 riptides, and 60 fire warriors. Wen't 2nd, and felt pretty good about how well I mitigated the alphastrike. Lost 22 boyz, 1 trukk, and 4 Gretchin. By the bottom of turn 4, he was down to a single riptide with 6 wounds left. It wasn't a top tier army, but it was a matchup that I feared because of all the Strength 5.
Nowhere does it say this does not work on vehicles, right?
What happens if you use it on a drukari raider? All you need is to roll a 5 and it's "slain". Command point reroll that bad boy...gives you 5/9 chance of outright killing it.
so a while back i posted on other threads some things i noticed from watching youtube codex reviews. i may or may not have the codex so i noticed there was one mistake so here is the correction.
nerf=tankbustas (8pt) reroll tohit of 1s instead on failed hits (possible mistake)
this was a mistake, tankbustas still get to reroll all failed to hits. my bad.
also... maybe we should start a new tactics post for "codex" orks. this thread has gone on for quite a while (gosh, more then a year) and it would be better for newer ork players to start looking at a smaller thread. i dont have the time to do it myself. but thats my 2cents.
also also... gonna have a game of 2000pts against my brother tomorrow. ill be running a telyport dreadmob. he might bring either tau or deldar. ill let you guys know how it goes...and hopefully we might have a new "fresh" thread to post on....
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koooaei wrote: Any info on how exactly grot shields work
as far as i can tell its based on the unit that is being shot at (cant be a full gretchin unit), and effects any grot infantry squad between the target unit and the enemy shooting. so 1cp spent on the defender, and then any grots between are used.
so time to stack those squads of 10 grots we bring for cp batteries as much as possible.
geargutz wrote: also...
maybe we should start a new tactics post for "codex" orks. this thread has gone on for quite a while (gosh, more then a year) and it would be better for newer ork players to start looking at a smaller thread. i dont have the time to do it myself. but thats my 2cents.
I second this idea; I only dip in and out of the thread and it’s impossible to tell where current discussion starts.
1. Can't get a free shoota anymore :-(
2. Are we sure dual choppa is possible RAW? It's says any Nob can remove it's slugga AND choppa with items from Nob weapon list.
1. Can't get a free shoota anymore :-(
2. Are we sure dual choppa is possible RAW? It's says any Nob can remove it's slugga AND choppa with items from Nob weapon list.
1. Can't get a free shoota anymore :-(
2. Are we sure dual choppa is possible RAW? It's says any Nob can remove it's slugga AND choppa with items from Nob weapon list.
Is the kustom shoota on the nob weapons list? What exactly is on that list?
1. Can't get a free shoota anymore :-(
2. Are we sure dual choppa is possible RAW? It's says any Nob can remove it's slugga AND choppa with items from Nob weapon list.
Choppa is on the nobz weapon list.
In theory you should be able to give 20 kombi rokkit launchers to ten Nobz then.
Nowhere does it say this does not work on vehicles, right?
What happens if you use it on a drukari raider? All you need is to roll a 5 and it's "slain". Command point reroll that bad boy...gives you 5/9 chance of outright killing it.
Legal?
This isn’t possible because after d jump, you need to be MORE then 9” away. And eadbanger is 9”....you just by jumping you are out of range.
Nowhere does it say this does not work on vehicles, right?
What happens if you use it on a drukari raider? All you need is to roll a 5 and it's "slain". Command point reroll that bad boy...gives you 5/9 chance of outright killing it.
Legal?
This isn’t possible because after d jump, you need to be MORE then 9” away. And eadbanger is 9”....you just by jumping you are out of range.
OK, just step off the trukk then, or run under the flyer. My main question is what happens when a vehicle is "slain".
The same as with any other model, in 8th a raider is the same as a warboss.
Throwing away a weirdboy to hope for a roll of 6+ isn't exactly something I'd call strategy From my experience 'Eadbanger only makes sense when you are stuck in combat and want to blow up a specific model you're in base contact with (for example, an exarch). Outside of that, smite is always the better option, especially for orks due to the +3.
Nowhere does it say this does not work on vehicles, right?
What happens if you use it on a drukari raider? All you need is to roll a 5 and it's "slain". Command point reroll that bad boy...gives you 5/9 chance of outright killing it.
Legal?
This isn’t possible because after d jump, you need to be MORE then 9” away. And eadbanger is 9”....you just by jumping you are out of range.
I think it's 18 now. Though, you need to beat toughness. Means 6+ for a raider. Not worth risking a wierdboy. Trolltastic against celestine though. And probably t4 stuff with a lot of wounds like most sm named characters.
The new codex looks great. I first thought grot shields aren't amazing but than i realized they work on wounds. Means my meganobz are gona be super safe.
Though, the question.
Imagine a lazcannon shoots a meganob and rolls 6 damage. A meganob starts throwing grots in the way. How many grots will die? 3? 6?
im confused how many grotblastas/burnabombs the Boomdakka Snazzwagon has.
Theres 4 grot/orks on it but one is strapped to the front and i have no idea if the pilot counts as "crew"
it just says each crew has a grotblasta and burnabottle
koooaei wrote: Though, the question.
Imagine a lazcannon shoots a meganob and rolls 6 damage. A meganob starts throwing grots in the way. How many grots will die? 3? 6?
6, it's basically "ignore wound on 2+, but kill grot"
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Vineheart01 wrote: im confused how many grotblastas/burnabombs the Boomdakka Snazzwagon has.
Theres 4 grot/orks on it but one is strapped to the front and i have no idea if the pilot counts as "crew"
it just says each crew has a grotblasta and burnabottle
The crew as a whole has one grotblasta and one burnabottle. You don't count the crew members.
Nowhere does it say this does not work on vehicles, right?
What happens if you use it on a drukari raider? All you need is to roll a 5 and it's "slain". Command point reroll that bad boy...gives you 5/9 chance of outright killing it.
Legal?
This isn’t possible because after d jump, you need to be MORE then 9” away. And eadbanger is 9”....you just by jumping you are out of range.
I think it's 18 now. Though, you need to beat toughness. Means 6+ for a raider. Not worth risking a wierdboy. Trolltastic against celestine though. And probably t4 stuff with a lot of wounds like most sm named characters.
The new codex looks great. I first thought grot shields aren't amazing but than i realized they work on wounds. Means my meganobz are gona be super safe.
Though, the question.
Imagine a lazcannon shoots a meganob and rolls 6 damage. A meganob starts throwing grots in the way. How many grots will die? 3? 6?
Yea, just came back to post about the 18" range, so it does work.
It'd be a lot better if we could target models with 'Eadbanger rather than the closest model, not sure if it would be considered broken, but it'd be a lot better and worth considering than it is now.
Then again, at least it's not as bad as the Roar of Mork spell, I was hoping for a -1 to hit debuff, not a leadership one. What a waste of ink.
Grimskul wrote: It'd be a lot better if we could target models with 'Eadbanger rather than the closest model, not sure if it would be considered broken, but it'd be a lot better and worth considering than it is now.
Then again, at least it's not as bad as the Roar of Mork spell, I was hoping for a -1 to hit debuff, not a leadership one. What a waste of ink.
don't most disciplines have the red headed stepchild though?
These point increases are killing me... trying to pull together a list.
Thinking deathskulls primarly, with potentially some evil sunz.
I'm thinking about getting a Gork, teleporting him with some Nobz inside for the 3d6 charge. The rerolls and 6++ really help him.
Then it's more or less models I already own, thinking 2 battalions.
30 boy squad
3x10 shoota boyz
2x10 grots
10 tank bustas in a trukk
Nob squad in a trukk
Warboss on bike
Big Mek KFF Painboy
2x Weirdboyz
Shockjump dragsta
4x Tractor kannons
which is roughly 2k points already... it feels like there is something missing... what do you guys think?
I was thinking about going Mork and dropping the big mek KFF, but I think it would almost certainly get shot off the board T1 since I'd want it around to protect everything, and then I'd be down a 300 point model and KFF. Also thought long and hard about the 3 deffdread vs. mork and mork won out for me (also for real world $$ purposes)
'Eadbange is probably not a good spell. In some matchups it might be used defensively. Like against Celestine or.... well thats it really. Da Jump is still really good, and the character buff is neat also.
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mrtomski wrote: These point increases are killing me... trying to pull together a list.
Thinking deathskulls primarly, with potentially some evil sunz.
I'm thinking about getting a Gork, teleporting him with some Nobz inside for the 3d6 charge. The rerolls and 6++ really help him.
Then it's more or less models I already own, thinking 2 battalions.
30 boy squad
3x10 shoota boyz
2x10 grots
10 tank bustas in a trukk
Nob squad in a trukk
Warboss on bike
Big Mek KFF Painboy
2x Weirdboyz
Shockjump dragsta
4x Tractor kannons
which is roughly 2k points already... it feels like there is something missing... what do you guys think?
I was thinking about going Mork and dropping the big mek KFF, but I think it would almost certainly get shot off the board T1 since I'd want it around to protect everything, and then I'd be down a 300 point model and KFF. Also thought long and hard about the 3 deffdread vs. mork and mork won out for me (also for real world $$ purposes)
If you are going for deathskullz, then you might as well split all your boyz into 10 man squads and give them a rokkit each. That lone rokkitlauncher can end up being very potent with a rerollable hit, wound and damage die. The same goes for their tankbustabumb. I also think that deff-dreads are better with deathskulls. You can give each a KMB blaster, and repeats as for the infantry. Deathskullz favour smultiple small units, and deffdreads get broken down into single units after deployment.
If you are going to put something in a tellyporter, then I suggest it should be the tankbusta-trukk. Teleport it in and blow something up. If you make them bad moons then they can shoot twice for two CP. That should be enough to reliably cripple a knight or kill a Leman Russ. I would also take smasha guns over traktor cannons, although both looks like they could be decent.
Also, you should consider bringing more trukks. Take one for deploying your characters in, for example. They are sturdy and inexpensive, they can tie stuff down and be annoying, and sit on objectives. You can even use them to block movement, or stop a tank from falling back.
pismakron wrote: 'Eadbange is probably not a good spell. In some matchups it might be used defensively. Like against Celestine or.... well thats it really. Da Jump is still really good, and the character buff is neat also.
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mrtomski wrote: These point increases are killing me... trying to pull together a list.
If you are going for deathskullz, then you might as well split all your boyz into 10 man squads and give them a rokkit each. That lone rokkitlauncher can end up being very potent with a rerollable hit, wound and damage die. The same goes for their tankbustabumb. I also think that deff-dreads are better with deathskulls. You can give each a KMB blaster, and repeats as for the infantry. Deathskullz favour smultiple small units, and deffdreads get broken down into single units after deployment.
If you are going to put something in a tellyporter, then I suggest it should be the tankbusta-trukk. Teleport it in and blow something up. If you make them bad moons then they can shoot twice for two CP. That should be enough to reliably cripple a knight or kill a Leman Russ. I would also take smasha guns over traktor cannons, although both looks like they could be decent.
Also, you should consider bringing more trukks. Take one for deploying your characters in, for example. They are sturdy and inexpensive, they can tie stuff down and be annoying, and sit on objectives. You can even use them to block movement, or stop a tank from falling back.
Good advice thanks. The only thing that stops be changing all the boyz to 10 mans is that jumping a 30 boy squad was so strong... not sure I'm ready to let that go... but maybe that's the way we are heading?
What do you think about the Gork? Worth the points?
I prefer this thread to the other one. I don't have the codex yet, but I definitely think that the smasha gun is clearly the best of the four. Its price might even be an error, at only 31 points.
I'm looking at getting my brother a gift to bring him back into actively playing the game. He's quite fond of Burnas, and has a slew of Burna Boyz. Do you think that a Battlewagon with Deffrolla (maybe some other guns?), kept open-topped and rolling around with fire pouring out of it while it smashes into things is a viable option?
R" effect in the G-Naur, but a lot depends if the transported units are counted as 
With a smaller unit, I could see running with double saws as a dedicated "that tank is ded" strike team.
I'd like to get 2 Skrapjets or a Bonebreaka along with my Trikeboss but my wallet forbids that at the moment. Only thing I'm going to buy alongside the codex and Wartrike that I pre-ordered last week is a Snazzwagon for anti-
...it would look cool, if nothing else 