Chikout wrote: There is a preview of the new white dwarf on the community site. No pics but confirmation that Mortarion,at least, will be in it.
Yep, I was a bit sad nothing seemed to talk about DG. I want to be hyped GW, make me be hyped! I can only pour over the same old pictures looking for details I missed so many times.
I only buy the minis I love. For DG it should be probably all the poxwalkers, 3 of the 10 released marines, the general with Axe and terminator armor, Morty, the bell guy and the new tank. I am waiting to see the 360 view of the new stuff, but the terminators seem too boxy for my taste. I prefer AoS bloated knights. And the head of Typhus doesn't work for me. Maybe with an alternative one ?... I wish the Typhus mini will convey better his age, psycher mind and uber space general fluff...
Qlanth wrote: Another supposed leak on FB. This guy claims to have a source who was right about releases in the past, but also wrong about some things.
Supposedly this will be how the new units will be packaged.
To be honest, it already sounds highly suspicious because I doubt the Tallyman will be packaged with Terminators. They have different armor.
Take this with a giant fistful of salt.
It seems that the rumour suggests that the Tallyman works sort of like an Ammo Runt I think, where it's a model to represent a buff to the unit maybe? Interesting if it's true
That'd be odd and given how it's been discussed that the unit will struggle out of deepstrike it sounds a bit wishlisty to me.
Also, I hope that isn't actually our PM box. 10 models but only one of each weapon? Why would I even bother buying the box if I'm going to have to convert half my models anyways? 5 models and one weapon or 10 models and 2 and I'd invest some money, but that's just an absurd waste of money if they can't be bothered to give us proper equipment. There is a reason no one uses actual havoc models.
Better start figuring out how to convert a flail that looks decent. With all the censers on everything it shouldn't be hard.
SilverAlien wrote: That'd be odd and given how it's been discussed that the unit will struggle out of deepstrike it sounds a bit wishlisty to me.
Also, I hope that isn't actually our PM box. 10 models but only one of each weapon? Why would I even bother buying the box if I'm going to have to convert half my models anyways? 5 models and one weapon or 10 models and 2 and I'd invest some money, but that's just an absurd waste of money if they can't be bothered to give us proper equipment. There is a reason no one uses actual havoc models.
Better start figuring out how to convert a flail that looks decent. With all the censers on everything it shouldn't be hard.
Yeah that's very true, so maybe it's not gunna happen. The only thing that soooort of makes it fit is that it was a Terminator telling the Tallyman to do stuff.
And yeah, that's quite troubling... I really hope that not legit. 2 of each weapon in the kit please GW
True, but it worked for skitarii as we didn't have any single item you needed two of per unit. If you bought 3 boxes you had enough to field 3 complete units of 10, one of rangers with 3 of the big rifles, two of vanguard one with plasma one with arc rifles. Or add a fourth to get sets of 5 with two weapons each and a unit running without special weapons. Etc.
But with this, we have firstly the issue of no scaling past the initial 5 members, so running them at 10 is pointless. Plus, many of those options (flails) you'll want on most of your units. At least I do. And vanguard were actually good without upgrades as well, unlike our plague boys.
So yeah, what was an expensive but useful investment to get the units I needed there turns into a giant sinkhole of money here. I'd need two 10 man squads to properly equip a 5 man unit, not properly equip two or three 5 man units. Three boxes would... Still only result in a single properly equipped 5 man unit, not three properly equipped 10 man units.
So yeah, conversions all the way. There is a point where even my laziness is outweighed by my desire to not waste money.
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: Me and my blue stuff are ready to make crappy copies of weapons. Lucky us, the nurgle weapons don´t have to look pretty.
If you aren't already, try grabbing some Magic Sculp/Apoxie Sculpt(fine grade Milliput will do in a pinch) and making your casting putty a 60:40 or even 70:30 mix Apoxie:Green stuff. The additional "softness" of the mix in the initial stage of cure after mixing picks up detail from the mould much better than pure GS.
Qlanth wrote: Another supposed leak on FB. This guy claims to have a source who was right about releases in the past, but also wrong about some things.
Supposedly this will be how the new units will be packaged.
SilverAlien wrote: That'd be odd and given how it's been discussed that the unit will struggle out of deepstrike it sounds a bit wishlisty to me.
Also, I hope that isn't actually our PM box. 10 models but only one of each weapon? Why would I even bother buying the box if I'm going to have to convert half my models anyways? 5 models and one weapon or 10 models and 2 and I'd invest some money, but that's just an absurd waste of money if they can't be bothered to give us proper equipment. There is a reason no one uses actual havoc models.
Better start figuring out how to convert a flail that looks decent. With all the censers on everything it shouldn't be hard.
Tacticals Marines suffer the same fate. You need a Devastator Box for any heavy weapon that isn't a ML.
What an utterly pathetic let down, they could very easily have shoved both that effortless anniversary model and those combat squads into last week's release
I'm waiting for the one who is badass enough to take both the pointing arms of the Intercessor and Hellblasters sergeants and do a 'party hard sergeant' conversion!
I'm waiting for the one who is badass enough to take both the pointing arms of the Intercessor and Hellblasters sergeants and do a 'party hard sergeant' conversion!
I doubt that they are gonna just put those kits for preorder next weekend. I think some DG are gonna be too, but they aren't previewen them until later on the week.
I doubt that they are gonna just put those kits for preorder next weekend. I think some DG are gonna be too, but they aren't previewen them until later on the week.
They have been in the habit of previewing preorders on the prior Sunday as retailers usually get their info on the Monday. I am pretty sure we will not see Death guard this week.
oh come onnn!...do we really need 10-man AND 5-man boxes of those gits?...why didn't they just release the 5-man kits and call it a day...bloody space marines -__-
Thargrim wrote: Really feeling the pain of the DG fans lately, they've been teasing you guys harder and longer than anything i've seen in recent memory.
they really have! If I wasn't so bloody annoyed by it, I'd almost be impressed by the trollery of it all
Jeez, they are already releasing cut up boxes of the double Sprue Primaris kits. That is just shameful. Move on, GW! I doubt they will be any bit of a deal compared to the regular double Sprue boxes.
dan2026 wrote: When was the Death Guard release first announced? Feels like its been years.
well, the official death guard trailer video was released on the 23rd of March, so, just over 5 months ago...but there were plenty of rumours prior to that, and I'm sure I first saw the tiny leaked pics of mortarion around this time last year...
(edit) - well, I say that, but the earliest I can find of that leaked mortarion pic is from the 27th of January, so...7 months...hmm...their pics of mortarion get leaked, and then they make us wait a full *7* months before releasing it...is this actually a deliberate ironic trolling punishment for us, 7 being the number of nurgle an all? /dons tinfoil hat
casvalremdeikun wrote: Jeez, they are already releasing cut up boxes of the double Sprue Primaris kits. That is just shameful. Move on, GW! I doubt they will be any bit of a deal compared to the regular double Sprue boxes.
This is... the... fifth time they've tried to sell the primaris squads? Or is it sixth?
Main box, two other cut-down-main boxes, snap fit, actual squad, now half squad. Six.
The sheer quantity of product codes generated by primaris marines has to be irking retailers.
If there is a functional or sane marketing strategy here, I can't see it. Hey, GW, try to sell something to people who don't care about numarines!
Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote: What an utterly pathetic let down, they could very easily have shoved both that effortless anniversary model and those combat squads into last week's release
But what better way to celebrate the 30th Anniversary of your premiere game with the release of a super-bland bolter Marine and combat-squad boxes of a unit type that's been in the game for 2 months?
So glad they turned Death Guard into a crazy 6-month release window (and made all their releases come out after the global campaign starring Death Guard) just so they could spam endless weeks of trying desperately to get people to care about 8th edition Mary Sue plot armor "We are huge space marines even huger than space marines" Primaris dudes.
Ugh. So annoyed with whoever at GW made these decisions.
there's a bloody point...didn't they already do the 30th anniversary thing with the "imperial space marine"?...why are they now trying to pull out the same occasion again for this shiny new primaris stooge? o_O
ZoBo wrote: there's a bloody point...didn't they already do the 30th anniversary thing with the "imperial space marine"?...why are they now trying to pull out the same occasion again for this shiny new primaris stooge? o_O
He was for the 30th anniversary of the original Imperial Space Marine model, not for 40k as a whole.
...that still doesn't mean that a primaris marine veteran sergeant is in any way a fitting tribute to 30 years of 40k...(unless you want to make the cynical obvious joke about 40k being a constant chain of space marine releases )...you'd think they would've come up with something a bit more...meaningful? nostalgic? I dunno...something more than "bolter-dude #1329856"...
dan2026 wrote: When was the Death Guard release first announced?
Feels like its been years.
well, the official death guard trailer video was released on the 23rd of March, so, just over 5 months ago...but there were plenty of rumours prior to that, and I'm sure I first saw the tiny leaked pics of mortarion around this time last year...
(edit) - well, I say that, but the earliest I can find of that leaked mortarion pic is from the 27th of January, so...7 months...hmm...their pics of mortarion get leaked, and then they make us wait a full *7* months before releasing it...is this actually a deliberate ironic trolling punishment for us, 7 being the number of nurgle an all? /dons tinfoil hat
Blame whoever leaked the pictures of the Mortarion render/test model(as that's what was shown)...GW's been in the habit of releasing teasers as a response to leaks.
Kanluwen wrote: Blame whoever leaked the pictures of the Mortarion render/test model(as that's what was shown)...GW's been in the habit of releasing teasers as a response to leaks.
You really think this is all because of a tiny picture of Mortarion that half the people looking at it didn't think it was real?
They first showed DG at Adepticon as a preview that we now know was for the second half of the year, alongside a similarly timed AoS product. This has all been planned well in advance, and it's what makes the lack of information unpalatable.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Jeez, they are already releasing cut up boxes of the double Sprue Primaris kits. That is just shameful. Move on, GW! I doubt they will be any bit of a deal compared to the regular double Sprue boxes.
This is... the... fifth time they've tried to sell the primaris squads? Or is it sixth?
Main box, two other cut-down-main boxes, snap fit, actual squad, now half squad. Six.
The sheer quantity of product codes generated by primaris marines has to be irking retailers.
If there is a functional or sane marketing strategy here, I can't see it. Hey, GW, try to sell something to people who don't care about numarines!
Marshal Loss wrote: They first showed DG at Adepticon as a preview that we now know was for the second half of the year, alongside a similarly timed AoS product. This has all been planned well in advance, and it's what makes the lack of information unpalatable.
At this point I'm almost waiting for GW to come out and be like, "Surprise! Turns out there are no more DG being released! Haha Mortarion is just a greenstuff sculpt that one of our 'Eavy Metal team made. Anyhow, here's a new 7 man box of Primaris marines! You guys love em, right?"
Marshal Loss wrote: They first showed DG at Adepticon as a preview that we now know was for the second half of the year, alongside a similarly timed AoS product. This has all been planned well in advance, and it's what makes the lack of information unpalatable.
At this point I'm almost waiting for GW to come out and be like, "Surprise! Turns out there are no more DG being released! Haha Mortarion is just a greenstuff sculpt that one of our 'Eavy Metal team made. Anyhow, here's a new 7 man box of Primaris marines! You guys love em, right?"
Or they'll announce 6 months of "Secundus Marines" and push DG back to next year.
Marshal Loss wrote: They first showed DG at Adepticon as a preview that we now know was for the second half of the year, alongside a similarly timed AoS product. This has all been planned well in advance, and it's what makes the lack of information unpalatable.
At this point I'm almost waiting for GW to come out and be like, "Surprise! Turns out there are no more DG being released! Haha Mortarion is just a greenstuff sculpt that one of our 'Eavy Metal team made. Anyhow, here's a new 7 man box of Primaris marines! You guys love em, right?"
Or they'll announce 6 months of "Secundus Marines" and push DG back to next year.
Maybe that Sept 23rd date wasn't off after all. Assuming they will preview for a week, then pre-orders, then release, minimum we're looking at would be the 16th. Assuming, of course, that they don't buck the trend and reveal everything some time this week.
Dose anyone suppose they will release the codex and new units on the same day? Or will it be the codex first then the units the week after?
It has been pretty obvious for a while that the launch strategy would be the following.
New game July
First faction August
Second faction September.
This has been the launch strategy for every edition of 40k since at least 4th edition.
This time we have got a couple of extra codexes and some AOS stuff in the middle.
When the rather underwhelming special edition mini was announced several weeks ago, they said it would be available for preorder on September 2nd.
A couple of weeks ago GW announced the season of war stuff for AOS. I am expecting that to be the next weeks preorder. At this point I am expecting Death guard to get their first preorders on the 16th.
This is just my guess though.
We will get leaked white dwarf pics in the next couple of days (which I am starting to think will not contain much death guard stuff) and probably some info out of Nova at the weekend. I think we will get a proper preview article sometime this week.
puma713 wrote: The disappointment is starting to overcome the hype, for me anyway.
Yeah I'm getting the same. It's just annoying now. I mean, I'm going to buy the crap out of them when they come out but jeez, the wait is kinda grinding pretty hard. Even my brother who collects Primaris is sick of all the Primaris. Currently we are sitting around waiting for the DG to be fully released so we can play again haha, and I'm pretty sure that's how it is for others too.
It feels strange how little attention GW is giving DG, considering that they're the main villains in the current campaign that they aren't even being released for. I totally understood the Primaris release being first and the push for the good guys. But is it really still going a month later?
GW: "Here's a starter set with two new armies who'll kick start this new edition of 40k!"
Us: "Hey they're pretty cool"
GW: "Check out the Primaris though! Look at how cool they are!"
Us: "Yeah they're sweet. Any news on the baddies though?"
GW: "New boxes of Primaris coming! Look!"
Us: "Yeah, they're cool, but what about the people who want the villains in the box you said you'd be supporting as much as the good guys?"
GW: "...yeah they're coming... check out the Primaris though!"
Us: "Its been a month. I... I don't want any more Primaris... Anything on the DG? Like... anything? The campaign that stars them as the villains is over in a week"
GW: *sigh* "Here's a pic look, happy? Anyway, do we have a treat for you... you know those boxes of 10 Primaris marines? WE NOW DO THEM IN BOXES OF 5!!!"
Us: "I can hardly even see half the..."
GW: "And possibly our GRESTEST Primaris sergeant model ever! He has a sword and stuff!"
I'm not even bothered by the release tease, just means I can persuade someone to buy me Morty for Christmas when he finally comes out and hope that we get another Primarch before my birthday as well. I'm determined to not spend my own money on these releases I don't need.
Yeh i would be super excited about primaris if primaris where actually good for my marine army. But sadly space wolves are kinda freaky deaky and primaris are just to bland to offer anything that the wolves dont already have.
I am collecting DG and i will regail you with my sad 40k story now as to why. Sept last year when 40k was doing badly all over my country i decided to swap a whole lot of my mint unused still packaged chaos stuff for xwing models etc. so out went 600+$ worth of chaos stuff 5 rhinos and about 200 figures a massive army for about 200$ worth of xwing. Coudnt bloody give away 40k stuff then..................................................................................................................................Then my donkey-cave mate says 2 months ago hey 40k i hear is awesome lets play again bro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i wanted to cry like a damn sissy girlly girll!!!
However the game is indeed fun again and ive spent over a 1000$ in 2 months god i hate his ass!!!!
Warhams, any chance of telling us whether there is a collectors and an equivalent to the Primaris edition DG codex, or the collectors is just the one with a different cover?
Well Magnus is £80, so around the same ball park for Daemon Primarch price.
The question would be though: does the +£5 mean that Morty is predicted to be better than Magnus or are they just trying to squeeze as much money as they can out of this release?
I made photos and will scan the foldout page asap. DG models in it but smallish. I love the terminators. There is also a power-armoured chem tank with spray gun wielding guy among other nice stuff. Cannot guarantee that imgur wont mess with the quality. Uploading now, give me ~30-60 min. Will post link to album
Based on previous releases the other DG models will be in the weeks after. WD does not show all releases anymore. Im sure 16th and maybe even 26th will bring the other kits. Dont worry
Automatically Appended Next Post: I can also confirm that the Mortarion leak is from the back cover of WD
XT-1984 wrote: He probably will be better than Magnus. Because otherwise everyone who already owns Magnus wouldn't bother buying Mortarion if he was worse.
Right then, here's a guess at Morty's rules since we're all just hanging about:
Range 18" S8 AP-4 Dd6 when in half range roll two dice for damage and pick the highest
DttFE
5+ invul, 5+ DR
Re-roll hit rolls of a 1 for friendly DeathGuard units and friendly Death Guard units gain +1 to their DR rolls (or maybe just re-roll failed DR rolls?) within 7"
Psyker, can manifest 2 powers from Dark hereticus, Death Guard and Smite.
Marshal Loss wrote: I'm expecting massive damage per hit from Silence. It's too powerful a weapon to be that underwhelming, reapers should one hit kill wherever possible
I was basing it off of Magnus' staff since that thing is more powerful than Morty's scythe.
Marshal Loss wrote: Warhams, any chance of telling us whether there is a collectors and an equivalent to the Primaris edition DG codex, or the collectors is just the one with a different cover?
Marshal Loss wrote: I'm expecting massive damage per hit from Silence. It's too powerful a weapon to be that underwhelming, reapers should one hit kill wherever possible
I was basing it off of Magnus' staff since that thing is more powerful than Morty's scythe.
Based off what exactly? Magnus may indeed be more powerful than Mortarion, but I would not bet against Silence.
Besides, this guy is an Angel of Death. A Grim Reaper. He should be doing massive amounts of damage per hit when it makes contact. You'll be wrong on this one.
Marshal Loss wrote: I'm expecting massive damage per hit from Silence. It's too powerful a weapon to be that underwhelming, reapers should one hit kill wherever possible
I was basing it off of Magnus' staff since that thing is more powerful than Morty's scythe.
Based off what exactly? Magnus may indeed be more powerful than Mortarion, but I would not bet against Silence.
Besides, this guy is an Angel of Death. A Grim Reaper. He should be doing massive amounts of damage per hit when it makes contact. You'll be wrong on this one.
Based off the fact that Magnus can hit harder than Morty given the fact that he is the most powerful psyker in the galaxy, he's a god damn giant and he's a primarch. I believed it was widely accepted that, with Magnus' power, he could take on absolutely anyone in the galaxy and win, maybe even Emps himself.
Marshal Loss wrote: I'm expecting massive damage per hit from Silence. It's too powerful a weapon to be that underwhelming, reapers should one hit kill wherever possible
I was basing it off of Magnus' staff since that thing is more powerful than Morty's scythe.
Based off what exactly? Magnus may indeed be more powerful than Mortarion, but I would not bet against Silence.
Besides, this guy is an Angel of Death. A Grim Reaper. He should be doing massive amounts of damage per hit when it makes contact. You'll be wrong on this one.
Based off the fact that Magnus can hit harder than Morty given the fact that he is the most powerful psyker in the galaxy, he's a god damn giant and he's a primarch. I believed it was widely accepted that, with Magnus' power, he could take on absolutely anyone in the galaxy and win, maybe even Emps himself.
Yeah, he's a powerful psyker. That does not mean that his weapon is more powerful than Silence.
Marshal Loss wrote: Yeah, he's a powerful psyker. That does not mean that his weapon is more powerful than Silence.
The power of a weapon is dictated by 1. How hard the user can swing the weapon and 2. The power within the weapon itself.
1. Magnus is far stronger than any of the Primarchs and him becoming a DP made him even stronger still.
2. Magnus' blade is imbued with the power of the second most powerful psyker in the galaxy (1st if we don't count the 'dead') whilst Morty's is imbued with his minor psychic might and some of Nurgles power.
Maaan those Plague Brethren are lame. $40 for mirrored and slightly tweaked starter set models. I get that digital design makes production easier, but they're barely modified from the previous versions of the same sculpts. Why is the rest of the DG stuff not coming until October?
Marshal Loss wrote: Yeah, he's a powerful psyker. That does not mean that his weapon is more powerful than Silence.
The power of a weapon is dictated by 1. How hard the user can swing the weapon and 2. The power within the weapon itself.
1. Magnus is far stronger than any of the Primarchs and him becoming a DP made him even stronger still.
2. Magnus' blade is imbued with the power of the second most powerful psyker in the galaxy (1st if we don't count the 'dead') whilst Morty's is imbued with his minor psychic might and some of Nurgles power.
I don't see how Silence could be as powerful.
You're right, I don't see how a xenotech scythe mutated into a daemon weapon over 10,000 years, held by a Primarch that is the incarnation of death and looks like a literal grim reaper, being more of a martial character than Magnus, could possibly compare. Found the Magnus fan.
I'll happily wager that you're wrong - even if the damage is random, I expect it to be at least D6 minimum, with a higher threshold. We'll see.
Prometheum5 wrote: Maaan those Plague Brethren are lame. $40 for mirrored and slightly tweaked starter set models. I get that digital design makes production easier, but they're barely modified from the previous versions of the same sculpts. Why is the rest of the DG stuff not coming until October?
It's three models that basically let you bulk out the existing push-fits and add a meltagun to the squad.
Also, likely a big part of it is that it's:
a)exclusive to the GW webstore.
b)coming with three art prints and designer's notes
Marshal Loss wrote: You're right, I don't see how a xenotech scythe mutated into a daemon weapon over 10,000 years, held by a Primarch that is the incarnation of death and looks like a literal grim reaper, could possibly compare. Found the Magnus fanboy.
We'll see. I'll happily wager that you're wrong - even if the damage is random, I expect it to be at least D6 minimum, with higher threshold.
I'm actually a Curze fanboy, gotta love Space Batman.
But I'd say that you're quite the Morty fan boy if you can't see why Magnus would be far more powerful and by extension his weapon.
"I don't see how a mutating Daemon Weapon, forged by the Red King himself, imbued with the power of the most powerful being in the galaxy, held by a Primarch that was the Strongest and most powerful Primarch before he ascended to Daemon hood and is literally a giant who can mutate to the size of a titan, could possibly be compared to Morty. Found the Mortarion fanboy."
Whether or not GW will stick to the fluff or beaf up their new big villain for more sales is unknown to me.
The Plague Brethren: halfassed mirrored sculpts of the DI minis. While I might have been interested in the booklet and art cards on their own merit, £25 is unjustifiable for those models
Mortarion Looks nice enough, if I was going to base a whole army around him then maybe the £85 would be OK, but I don't tend to go for named characters so he's a no-no for me. Might bits-order Silence or the Lantern for conversions
Codex: Lots of new info here: 7 new characters, 33 units (I'm assuming the 7 characters are part of that number, leaving us 26 units and 7 characters. Codex: CSM had 45 datasheets, so we're gonna be losing a lot)
14 Stratagems (I would assume that "get extra relics" and other common stratagems we've seen in the other codices are going to be in there)
These seem like good contenders for the characters
Mortarion
Foul Blightspawn
Biologus Putrifier
Lord of Contagion
Noxious Blightbringer
Malignant Plaguecaster
Tallyman?
As for the Stratagems:
Blight Bombardment
Putrid Detonation
Cloud of Flies
Grandfather's Blessings
+10 more
Prometheum5 wrote: Maaan those Plague Brethren are lame. $40 for mirrored and slightly tweaked starter set models. I get that digital design makes production easier, but they're barely modified from the previous versions of the same sculpts. Why is the rest of the DG stuff not coming until October?
It's three models that basically let you bulk out the existing push-fits and add a meltagun to the squad.
Also, likely a big part of it is that it's:
a)exclusive to the GW webstore.
b)coming with three art prints and designer's notes
I know, and all the extra crap is still going to get me to buy it. I am glad for 3x guys and another special weapon to round out my starter guys, but the actual models do seem a little weak.
This is only the first week of DG release, although the teaser for next issue is 'Death Guard', I'm sure the other kits will follow directly afterward, on the 16th and so on
Sorry to report but there isnt anything on first and second sight about Necromunda in this issue.
The other articles are pretty good, lots of tidbits about 40k and some nice hobby articles.
Two battle reports, none with the new Death Guard in this one.
Whumbachumba wrote: Couple models sneaked into that army picture too, circled in red. One has vials around his waist and the other with the giant vat on his back.
Not really a fan of Mortarion.. just seems too "busy" looking. Maybe I just need to see some different paint jobs. I do like those mortar tanks though.
Am I allowed to feel a little disappointed that we're seeing mortarion before the Plagueburster and Terminators? Between princes and Typhus and blightbringers and plaguecasters I feel like I have enough big characters in my DG army... I really need some deepstrike or some long range.
Charax wrote: Codex: Lots of new info here: 7 new characters, 33 units (I'm assuming the 7 characters are part of that number, leaving us 26 units and 7 characters. Codex: CSM had 45 datasheets, so we're gonna be losing a lot)
Well, there were 21 units in our army list in the index, 22 if you count the sorcerer on palanquin that was errata'd in. Factor in 7 new characters and that's 28/29. Which means 4-5 new units compared to the index, 6 if we assume both of the daemon mounted hqs don't make it. We know three of those (two varieties of terminators and the new vehicle). We should also assume plague bearers are also in there, because they were in the normal CSM book. So that's 2 potential units that haven't been accounted for.
So either there are a couple units we haven't seen, we are getting a couple of additional units back from the CSM book, or we actually get to keep our palanquin mounted hqs and not have them demoted to legacy.
Huginn wrote: Anybody know if the Mortarion comes with weapon options or are we stuck with the pistol and scythe?
Why would he come with weapon options...?
Magnus came with different options for his blade and with other weapons that were optional.
To be honest... for the price tag I really hope there is just as much customization for Mortarion as there was for Magnus. Different heads. Different styles versions of Silence. Different style flies or something.
For $140 USD it better be more than what we've seen in these pictures.
Charax wrote: Codex: Lots of new info here: 7 new characters, 33 units (I'm assuming the 7 characters are part of that number, leaving us 26 units and 7 characters. Codex: CSM had 45 datasheets, so we're gonna be losing a lot)
Well, there were 21 units in our army list in the index, 22 if you count the sorcerer on palanquin that was errata'd in. Factor in 7 new characters and that's 28/29. Which means 4-5 new units compared to the index, 6 if we assume both of the daemon mounted hqs don't make it. We know three of those (two varieties of terminators and the new vehicle). We should also assume plague bearers are also in there, because they were in the normal CSM book. So that's 2 potential units that haven't been accounted for.
So either there are a couple units we haven't seen, we are getting a couple of additional units back from the CSM book, or we actually get to keep our palanquin mounted hqs and not have them demoted to legacy.
Leaves enough room for the Tallyman and the Biologus Putrifier
Those would be characters and thus included in the 7 mentioned. Even if they are elites they are characters.
It's also worth mentioning that, in my estimate, the 7 new characters were all new as in "not in the index". If those three from the index are counted as part of the "new" characters, that's three more potential units.
I really hope those two soda cans on his face look better in real life. Also, he's still looking wide. I have a feeling that all of the primarchs but Magnus are going to have that "Heroic Scale" to them...
Magnus came with different options for his blade and with other weapons that were optional.
To be honest... for the price tag I really hope there is just as much customization for Mortarion as there was for Magnus. Different heads. Different styles versions of Silence. Different style flies or something.
For $140 USD it better be more than what we've seen in these pictures.
... why on earth would he have different weapon options? The only reason magnus could be wielded with the sword was because he had a scabbard for it in the first place. Also asking for his signature weapon to have different versions is absurd. Just 'cause the thing cost a lot doesn't mean it accommodates to a variety of options. That said, I expect at the least head options and perhaps a third hand option, but that's about it
If Mortarion costs $140 has no options for faces/weapons/poses or extras included in the kit I'm going to be pretty disappointed. Thats a gakload of money for something that looks to be about the size of a Riptide and costs twice as much.
Magnus came with different options for his blade and with other weapons that were optional.
To be honest... for the price tag I really hope there is just as much customization for Mortarion as there was for Magnus. Different heads. Different styles versions of Silence. Different style flies or something.
For $140 USD it better be more than what we've seen in these pictures.
... why on earth would he have different weapon options? The only reason magnus could be wielded with the sword was because he had a scabbard for it in the first place. Also asking for his signature weapon to have different versions is absurd. Just 'cause the thing cost a lot doesn't mean it accommodates to a variety of options. That said, I expect at the least head options and perhaps a third hand option, but that's about it
Because it would be fun! And fun things are good! Especially if you're spending a shload of money
Qlanth wrote: If Mortarion costs $140 has no options for faces/weapons/poses or extras included in the kit I'm going to be pretty disappointed. Thats a gakload of money for something that looks to be about the size of a Riptide and costs twice as much.
[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius] It says quite clearly that he can have his weapons in either hand which changes his pose dramatically or some nonsense they have said.
Welp, I was gonna get morty but that price. Just....that price. I've started entire armies for less than that.
Here's hoping that somewhere down the road they'd release him with a bundle for something.
The other releases are pretty expensive too but nothing more than what I've come to expect from GW (the morty thing caught me off guard because I thought he'd be closer to Magnus's price. In canada it's a 30 dollar difference, which with discounts just widens).
Qlanth wrote: If Mortarion costs $140 has no options for faces/weapons/poses or extras included in the kit I'm going to be pretty disappointed. Thats a gakload of money for something that looks to be about the size of a Riptide and costs twice as much.
[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius] It says quite clearly that he can have his weapons in either hand which changes his pose dramatically or some nonsense they have said.
That's about as poseable as it'll get.
There is no need to start insulting me. I'm glad to hear there will be multiple poses. That is encouraging! I hope there are other options as well!
With GW's fondness for releasing 'spooky' stuff in October, I imagine that's when we will see a real outpouring of DG/ Nurgle stuff. If there was ever going to be a GUO, that's where I would put my money.
GW, call me when I can buy multi-pose kits. Don't you like money? My birthday is in early October.
PS: I haven't dived into the army composition stuff for 40k 8th so far, what with the Codizes coming out amd changing listsy anyway. There won't be Death Guard bikes I bet. I have five Nurgle bikers and an Apotecary on bike. How do I square them with also using the Death Guard (not Nurgle! Sigh) characters from DI in one army? I'm fine with Nurgle CSM and count-as characters or ally DG chars (if there are decent approximations) or ally bikers in a DG list. I just want to use my "industrialised warfare" WW1-styled bikers to outflank enemy forces ground to a halt by massed infantry assaults.
I think this edition of the DG codex is going to be like the Blood Angels and Dark Angels codex, where it's focused on the actual chapter/legion rather than an army based on them.
If I remember, Mortarion preferred infantry tactics and thus didn't use bikes all that much (or anything else beyond footsloggers really). The 3.5 edition codex even let you use Rhino-mounted Plague Marines as Fast attack because you didn't get any other FA choices.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: I think this edition of the DG codex is going to be like the Blood Angels and Dark Angels codex, where it's focused on the actual chapter/legion rather than an army based on them.
If I remember, Mortarion preferred infantry tactics and thus didn't use bikes all that much (or anything else beyond footsloggers really). The 3.5 edition codex even let you use Rhino-mounted Plague Marines as Fast attack because you didn't get any other FA choices.
Malika2 wrote: Is it just me, or does the Mortarion kit provide the extra pistols so that you could make a Mortarion with two pistols?
If that's the case I may just buy a Mortarion, have him dual-wielding pistols and paint his rebreather filters up like Pepsi cans. This could be the start of something great.
Binabik15 wrote: GW, call me when I can buy multi-pose kits. Don't you like money? My birthday is in early October.
PS: I haven't dived into the army composition stuff for 40k 8th so far, what with the Codizes coming out amd changing listsy anyway. There won't be Death Guard bikes I bet. I have five Nurgle bikers and an Apotecary on bike. How do I square them with also using the Death Guard (not Nurgle! Sigh) characters from DI in one army? I'm fine with Nurgle CSM and count-as characters or ally DG chars (if there are decent approximations) or ally bikers in a DG list. I just want to use my "industrialised warfare" WW1-styled bikers to outflank enemy forces ground to a halt by massed infantry assaults.
I think you might be hosed on the bikes. They are re-branding Death Guard as their own, brand new army and they have removed the ability for Death guard to take many classic CSM units. So, no Heldrakes, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Vindicators, Havocs, Chosen, and no bikes just to name a few.
But, you can still take the bikes with a detachment of regular CSM with basically any legion you want to choose. In the CSM codex they specifically mention that the many troops of legions who are "Chaos Undivided" can pledge themselves to any god. You can have nurgle bikers no problem, they just won't be Death Guard.
Well if you look at the WD pics, he has 2 variants to his weapon. One with blue smoke coming out, one without smoke. Its funny how every release people are shocked and rage that its so expensive.
matphat wrote: So, forgive me if this has already been discussed, but I'm assuming that is a DG vindicator in that shot?
Hasn't it been said that Vindis are a little "meh" in this edition?
Has anyone seen the stats for the DG vindi yet?
That is the Plaugesomething Crawler or some such. Looks like a Sturmtiger's gun!
Ah! Fantastic. So we can expect a new stat line and unique profile I suppose? Can't complain there. Also, bummed they have it so obscured in the picture. Would love to see it in profile.
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MrVulcanator wrote: Guess I'll just get a Daemon Prince and Typhus. I don't know what I expected price-wise, but Mortarion is out of my price range for a single figure.
Hate to say it, but I'm with you. That's an amazing center piece, but I can't justify that price. Bummed.
Binabik15 wrote: GW, call me when I can buy multi-pose kits. Don't you like money? My birthday is in early October.
PS: I haven't dived into the army composition stuff for 40k 8th so far, what with the Codizes coming out amd changing listsy anyway. There won't be Death Guard bikes I bet. I have five Nurgle bikers and an Apotecary on bike. How do I square them with also using the Death Guard (not Nurgle! Sigh) characters from DI in one army? I'm fine with Nurgle CSM and count-as characters or ally DG chars (if there are decent approximations) or ally bikers in a DG list. I just want to use my "industrialised warfare" WW1-styled bikers to outflank enemy forces ground to a halt by massed infantry assaults.
I think you might be hosed on the bikes. They are re-branding Death Guard as their own, brand new army and they have removed the ability for Death guard to take many classic CSM units. So, no Heldrakes, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Vindicators, Havocs, Chosen, and no bikes just to name a few.
But, you can still take the bikes with a detachment of regular CSM with basically any legion you want to choose. In the CSM codex they specifically mention that the many troops of legions who are "Chaos Undivided" can pledge themselves to any god. You can have nurgle bikers no problem, they just won't be Death Guard.
The Plague Crawler tank seem to have filled in the Vindicator slot, we might see DG havocs again (which did exist in older editions and are literally just Plague Marines with more special weapons), and the Deathshroud Terminators will pretty much be the DG Chosen equivallent (in rank if not in role).
It seems like most of the things removed are those that are fast, with the exception of the forge fiend (which is probably because DG now have the Bloat Drone to fill in for dakka daemon engines and probably because Mortarion isn't as chummy with Dark Mechanicus) which fits the playstyle. Now I"m just hoping the rules aren't gimped and we're left with the 8th edition equivallent of 5th edition T-sons.
Looks like Deathshroud are possibly bigger models and come in units of 3, while the normal termies are more usual size and come in units of 5. Interesting. I wander if the Deathshroud have more wounds or something to make up for it, or possibly those Destroyer Hives and wrist flamers and scythes will all make up for it. However they do it, I'm loving the distinction between normal termies and Mortarion's bodyguard.
Super excited to get my hands on the codex to see what they all do!
I'm also curious about those new characters.
One is some kind of Apothecary, maybe the same rule? Or maybe he makes people tougher or gives them better disgustingly resilient? Either way, he'll somehow make the army tougher, I'm pretty sure.
The one who seems to have a vat of vile liquid on his back, crafting a Blight grenade on the spot, makes me curious as to what he actually does. Does he let units lob extra grenades? Does he just lob a ton of grenades? I really have no idea what he'd be used for.
XT-1984 wrote: He probably will be better than Magnus. Because otherwise everyone who already owns Magnus wouldn't bother buying Mortarion if he was worse.
Right then, here's a guess at Morty's rules since we're all just hanging about:
Range 18" S8 AP-4 Dd6 when in half range roll two dice for damage and pick the highest
DttFE
5+ invul, 5+ DR
Re-roll hit rolls of a 1 for friendly DeathGuard units and friendly Death Guard units gain +1 to their DR rolls (or maybe just re-roll failed DR rolls?) within 7"
Psyker, can manifest 2 powers from Dark hereticus, Death Guard and Smite.
Does that seem like a good prediction to anyone?
As we're having fun with this:
I think he may have something like Magnus' plus to power manifestation. Except it'll be to DR. So he'll have 3+ DR which will get worse as he gets hurt. Then again, that's probably way too powerful. But I'm still guessing he's going to have something along those lines.
Re-roll 1's to hit and 1's for DR within 7" I assume too.
Maybe 21 wounds, to be a multiple of 7.
He may have S7 with a x2S weapon, making it 14 strength (because multiples of 7) but have flat 3 dmg.
I think his pistol is pretty much going to be a plasma pistol but maybe with longer range and more shots, and overheats just cause a mortal wound.
Also looks like he's a got a form of Typhus' Destroyer Hive on his back.
T8 is surely a given. I really hope so anyway. But maybe if he does have something similar to the ability I mentioned above, T7 could balance that a little.
Also, I noticed that the balls hanging off chains all over him aren't censors but in fact bombs of some kind. So perhaps some anti-charging ability too? Or they do dmg to people while he's in melee with them? He's got two strapped to his waste too.
matphat wrote: So, forgive me if this has already been discussed, but I'm assuming that is a DG vindicator in that shot?
Hasn't it been said that Vindis are a little "meh" in this edition?
Has anyone seen the stats for the DG vindi yet?
That is the Plaugesomething Crawler or some such. Looks like a Sturmtiger's gun!
Ah! Fantastic. So we can expect a new stat line and unique profile I suppose? Can't complain there. Also, bummed they have it so obscured in the picture. Would love to see it in profile.
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MrVulcanator wrote: Guess I'll just get a Daemon Prince and Typhus. I don't know what I expected price-wise, but Mortarion is out of my price range for a single figure.
Hate to say it, but I'm with you. That's an amazing center piece, but I can't justify that price. Bummed.
Looks more like one of these to me, just with a demolisher cannon instead.
I like the apothecarie and the fluid dude. I will get them together with the tallyman. They look interesting for me.
But I will probably pass on Morty and look for a much cheaper proxy for him.
Also the 3 brethren are a joke for 32,50€. The easy to builds where 4€ per model, which was already expensive for monopose. But this 3 dudes are just ridiciulous as each of them costs as much as one complete easy to build set.
Ah! Fantastic. So we can expect a new stat line and unique profile I suppose? Can't complain there. Also, bummed they have it so obscured in the picture. Would love to see it in profile..
We've had a few different shots of it so far, it's interesting, has a weird curved shape. Also, is an actual artillery weapon so we have a whirlwind equivalent than isn't forgeworld maybe.
I am a bit disappointed that the Codex and Morty are released without a full supporting release immediately following. It will give me a chance to get Morty assembled and painted before the next wave arrives.
Elbows wrote: Yeah that's an exceptionally oddball price point. No one would or should pay $40 for three plastic space marines.
I don't understand. It almost looks like they created a 10 plague marines box with less options (no more than 1 weapon per type) and then tried to sell the another Melta guy (plus add-ons) for 40$.
I wait and see the options in the box but these prices will kill the Death Guard frenzy for many.
I think the helmets in those guys are pretty dope, the Melta-guy helmet specially. But paying HQ prices for 3 slighly different marines than the monoposes from the Starter?
That "panflet" with "Designer's notes" better be like, I don't knoow. 150 pages long minimun.
That "panflet" with "Designer's notes" better be like, I don't knoow. 150 pages long minimun.
Let's be brutally honest here: nobody gives about the book. Everyone wants the smelly marines, nowadays sources about fluff are omnipresent. And GW writing is abysmally bad these days. We could possibly don't want to know the designer's thought processes, ignorance is bliss. Come on, you know I am right.
So we would pay more something with a book with no value. Meh. Better wait and see if GW regains a bit of sanity.. maybe the models will be available later without booklets for a lesser price.
One could argue that this is GW testing how much can exploit impulse buyers. I hope people keep their cool and give them a lesson.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Why in God's name would anyone pay AUD$70 for 3 mono-pose Marines and a White Dwarf article?
They are 3 exclusive sculpts with art cards a a designer booklet, in other words 3 marines and some paper. You can't get them from ebay or discount sellers, and have to pay GWs shipping instead of the free shipping offered on ebay for many items. GW is testing how much we are willing to shell out for this kind of stuff, when really they should be 20 USD at most. Funny thing is I haven't bought from GW direct in 3 years, and bought DI off ebay for less than 130 dollars new. I know GW is trying to get me to pull the trigger on 3 exclusive sculpts but I ain't going for it. They are trying to milk the people who 'have' to have this kind of stuff.
I bought First Strike for the "exclusive" sculpts (Ok just for the Poxwalker with hammer-hands. It was beautifull), but they aren't gonna catch me with this... no sir.
Who in their right mind would pay US$40 for 3 mono-pose Marines and a White Dwarf article?
Galas wrote: I think the helmets in those guys are pretty dope, the Melta-guy helmet specially. But paying HQ prices for 3 slighly different marines than the monoposes from the Starter?
The Meltagun guy is very nice. Why does he cost as much as a clampack character?
The webexclusive brethren don't look that cool, I'll just get the first strike box instead, it's the same price, but includes reivers++ :<
But can they release that tank already? DDDD: SO IMPATIENT.
This may be the first time EVER I go for the collectors edition (if available), plus Mortarion and new daemon engines are going to set me back a tad...
Price on Mortarion is a bit of a strange point. On the one hand, I'm pretty surprised that he costs more than Magnus, who is pretty comparative in size.
On the other hand, it's a tough position for GW as with something like this they are only really going to sell it to modelers (sp?) and DG players, so the target is limited and thus it would be harder to recoup their costs on it. On the flip side of that coin though the same argument could be made for Magnus. I dunno. My friend will get one either way.
Well, seeing as I accepted Magnus' insane cost in AUS which is $220 (lol) the $230 (lol) for Mortarion is fine for me. I didn't get Magnus, but I'm going to let someone buy the crap out of Mortarion for my Birthday.
Very unexpected to see the plague brethren kit. I might be willing to fork over more cash than I've already spent if they were truly unique models but somehow the fact that they are mirror images of DI models with minor cosmetic differences bothers me. The price point is of course unrealistic, but I can see why they are pushing these models now; likely when the MPP kit comes out all of the unique elements like the helms and weapon bits will be part of the kit and you'll be able to pretty much build these guys up for pennies on the dollar.
I find it hard to believe that they won't have a melta gun as an option in the MPP kit.
Hang in there folks, we are so close now, I can smell the rotting flesh.
Well, I'll get ol' Morty one-forty at some point, but that is a lot for one figure that you'll rarely use. Would love it if he came with some sort of alt bits so we could make him up as a demon prince, or perhaps some fun nurgly bits which could be added to troops or vehicles (more than he already has anyway).
Though it's a bit of a limited release, we should prepare ourselves for the inevitable 'rebox release' where they release all those DI Deathguard characters and unit as separate kits. I could see one week of 'just that', and then push all the new stuff back even farther... Or maybe they'll split the reboxes between the new stuff, or after everything else, we can only hope.
I'm down for a collector's ed. codex, as I've always wanted a Deathguard (or rather, plague marines) army book since 2nd ed. Not sure about that web exclusive set though, I like the figures, but that's a lot for 3 guys, and I have PILES of Plague marines with meltas already.
I really want to see what kind of CC stuff we get with the new plague marine kits, I hope there's a bunch of plague knives, as I want to equip a bunch of marines with them.
Looks like aside from the deathshroud, the other termies have combi-type weapons, so they should pair well with my unbuilt forgeworld plague marine termies.
Do you think we'll get a new Plague caster, plague caller(? the dude with the bell from DI), and Lord of Contagion? I'm guessing they'll just rebox the ones from DI, but It'd be nice if there were more elaborate kits.
No problem, you may have confused it with the battle report in the Getting Started 40k book from back in July which showed the Plagueburst tank in a battle report. I havent read it yet but there wasnt much new info about it afaik
Warhams-77 wrote: No problem, you may have confused it with the battle report in the Getting Started 40k book from back in July which showed the Plagueburst tank in a battle report. I havent read it yet but there wasnt much new info about it afaik
Spoiler:
nope but thanks for showing them again! it's all feeding my hype
Am I the only one who hates nurglings? Im disghusted by their ability to transform any nurgle miniature into comic relief clown trash. I know I can remove them, but the idea that GW has planted will remain.
Nurgle is about death and decay and horrible fates where the only relief is to become even more horrible. There can even be some good old morbid humour, like Nurgles circus from mordheim, but those guys are still gonna go up to you and punch a hole through your esophagus. These nurglings flying around mortarion etz are just cutsey trash that appeal to school girl anime furry friends.
FudgeDumper wrote: Am I the only one who hates nurglings? Im disghusted by their ability to transform any nurgle miniature into comic relief clown trash. I know I can remove them, but the idea that GW has planted will remain.
Nurgle is about death and decay and horrible fates where the only relief is to become even more horrible. There can even be some good old morbid humour, like Nurgles circus from mordheim, but those guys are still gonna go up to you and punch a hole through your esophagus. These nurglings flying around mortarion etz are just cutsey trash that appeal to school girl anime furry friends.
I can't tell if you're joking or if you genuinely have no idea how Grandfather Nurgle was portrayed over the years.
FudgeDumper wrote: a hole through your esophagus. These nurglings flying around mortarion etz are just cutsey trash that appeal to school girl anime furry friends.
TIL they were trying to appeal to anime furry trends in the 80s
Nurglings have been around for a very long time and have always been based off of Nurgle. This is not new.
I will say that the nurglings on Mortarion's model are stupid and should be removed. They clash far too much with his image/model.
The normal nurgling bases have always been silly/odd...not that I enjoy that very much. I feel like GW is a bit conflicted as to how they should portrary Nurgle, etc. (particularly highlighted by the hillbilly snot-caravan driver from that new Warhammer Blight thing).
FudgeDumper wrote: Am I the only one who hates nurglings? Im disghusted by their ability to transform any nurgle miniature into comic relief clown trash. I know I can remove them, but the idea that GW has planted will remain.
Nurgle is about death and decay and horrible fates where the only relief is to become even more horrible. There can even be some good old morbid humour, like Nurgles circus from mordheim, but those guys are still gonna go up to you and punch a hole through your esophagus. These nurglings flying around mortarion etz are just cutsey trash that appeal to school girl anime furry friends.
Nurgle isn't only about death and decay. He's also about life and rebirth, about joyfulness and almost parental affection... from The Lost and The Damned (1990):
"Yet in character the Greater Daemon is neither deathlike nor morbid. In fact the opposite is true, Great Unclean Ones are motivated by all the trivial human enthusiasms which drive the living. They are ebullient and vociferous, full of a natural enthusiasm to organise and achieve. They are driven by a gregarious and even sentimental nature and hold their followers dear, even referring to them as their 'Children' and taking a noticeable pride in their appearance and endearing behaviour. "
As you can see, Nurgle and his followers are not all grimdark and brooding.
Some other choice bits:
"...the squealing, screaming, chattering and bickering of the Nurglings was beyond mere human imagining. A million unruly school children left to their own devices could not even begin to rival the anarchy or intensity of that daemonic din."
"the Nurglings chatter and prance like small children about to embark upon a special treat. They squabble and squirm, snigger and squeal, and their numbers increase and diminish beyond the Plaguebearers' ability to count them. Amid the general hullaballoo and sense of anticipation, the overly affectionate Beasts of Nurgle jump uncontrollably from Plaguebearer to Plaguebearer, like excitable puppies leaving pools of dribble and slime as they pass. "
It's always been this way. Mortarion might be all doom and gloom but his God and it's demons certainly aren't!
Yeah, the thing about Nurgle is that even though he's the god of despair, he's actually fairly jovial and is probably the most benign chaos god.
All of those diseases he inflicts on people is just his way of trying to help people, by trying to toughen them up and make them feel better about their existence, as if you are infected by a bunch of horrible diseases, what else can you feel bad about?
Despair can also be interpreted as the the absence of hope and motivation. Also remember that Nurgle the god of Stagnation and decay.
Everything sucks, everything will continue to suck, so why bother trying? Just relax and enjoy life as it is, no matter how horrible it is.
In a nutshell, this
Nurgle is probably the most interesting god in terms of theme, due to all of those little nuances.
And is less than half the size. Lets not even pretend that Great Crusade Morty is even remotely equatable to Daemon Primark Morty.
For me is not a bug, is a feature. I am kinda sick of these un-transportable huge models.
But you have a point about the price.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you're saying that you'd rather use Forgeworlds Mortarion in place of the plastic Daemon Primarck Mortarion then I'd refuse to play you, it would be the epittomy of modeling for advantage.
I have to admit I can understand people not liking tentacles and/or Nurglings on their models in general, but thinking these elements should not be part of a NURGLE model is like saying Space Marine models should not be equipped with bolters because you dont like their aesthetic. Makes no sense to me tbh
Given the way he's moving the smoke coming from his back should be going the other way. I can deal with GW prices but mistakes like this just put me off.
Nurgle has never really been about death and decay. Even in the 80's his champions were fatties.
And is less than half the size. Lets not even pretend that Great Crusade Morty is even remotely equatable to Daemon Primark Morty.
For me is not a bug, is a feature. I am kinda sick of these un-transportable huge models. But you have a point about the price.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you're saying that you'd rather use Forgeworlds Mortarion in place of the plastic Daemon Primarck Mortarion then I'd refuse to play you, it would be the epittomy of modeling for advantage.
I would not be interested in play with someone like this anyway, probably, if this is the first thing that came in your mind. Also, I would give it some kick-ass base or use some other device to make it more "visible". I tend to play with people with a tad bit of common sense.
And is less than half the size. Lets not even pretend that Great Crusade Morty is even remotely equatable to Daemon Primark Morty.
For me is not a bug, is a feature. I am kinda sick of these un-transportable huge models.
But you have a point about the price.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you're saying that you'd rather use Forgeworlds Mortarion in place of the plastic Daemon Primarck Mortarion then I'd refuse to play you, it would be the epittomy of modeling for advantage.
& here's me thinking about using a 1st ed Blood Thirster so I can hide him behind, well, anything really!!
Bad bubber!
usernamesareannoying wrote: nurgle really is a unique theme to try and decide on. you can go all morbid death and decay or fun and odd.
hell, the poxwalkers are all smiling so something must be fun on the other side of that rift.
look at the plaguebearers in the DI novel. they invaded the hospital planet singing and dancing.
People already explained that the "Jolly Nurgle" is old fluff and IMHO it makes Him more interesting. IIRC in WHFB there was a Circus of Nurgle or something (Mordheim?). Also, death&decay plus dance is somewhat an old theme from middle ages (Danse Macabre), albeit there is done, too, to remember to the mortals their mortality. In other words, is something the authors borrowed from real life culture and changed a bit, this is why is powerful.
Said this, I generally trim Nurglings for two reasons: I prefer a more sober Death Guard, visually too (I trim excessive tentacles etc) and I don't like how many mortal models mistreat Nurglings, I just don't see a chaos follower hurt a manifestation of the gods unless is for test their mettle and prowess or attacked... but I admit this is more head canon than anything.
Oh that's fine then. Its just when people refer to something as old fluff there's that implication that its no longer around.
Might just be because I'm a necron player though. Lots of old fluff there.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Oh that's fine then. Its just when people refer to something as old fluff there's that implication that its no longer around.
Might just be because I'm a necron player though. Lots of old fluff there.
Old fluff in the sense that is nothing new. Old does not necessarily mean outdated, regardless what our culture teaches us.
FudgeDumper wrote: a hole through your esophagus. These nurglings flying around mortarion etz are just cutsey trash that appeal to school girl anime furry friends.
TIL they were trying to appeal to anime furry trends in the 80s
Nurglings have been around for a very long time and have always been based off of Nurgle. This is not new.
He's the happiest chaos god, papa Nurgle! just love him and he'll love you and give you a pile of nurglings to cuddle with and a pile of deseases to rot your face off with and everyone will be blissful with a big ol buddha smile. That's Nurgle from the beginning, all the way back to WFRP1 til now - anyone who thinks that's not the case is just wrong.
usernamesareannoying wrote: hell, the poxwalkers are all smiling so something must be fun on the other side of that rift.
This exemplifies why I can see that someone might suffer from theme overload. GW has a habit of narrowing and doubling down on a specific aspect. It can get overwhelming. Like with the Poxwalkers, would it kill them to sculpt some without the idiot smile and embody the grim outlook of death and decay, not just the joyous side of Nurgle?
Or the tentacles. Some people just prefer rusty Marines. But it looks like all we're getting is fleshy Marines. Both fit Nurgle, but only one is portrayed in model form.
Plus, 'Eavy Metal's paint schemes come across as pretty cartoony, at least to me.
I can see how there's room for criticism. Nurglings are still supposed to have nasty teeth and nasty habits. Laughing and bouncing while they eat you is well and good, but again there is just so much focus on the comic relief part that any other aspect of their character becomes neglected. And for that lack of diversity in portrayal, is it any wonder if someone comes and says it's "cutesy trash"?
usernamesareannoying wrote: hell, the poxwalkers are all smiling so something must be fun on the other side of that rift.
This exemplifies why I can see that someone might suffer from theme overload. GW has a habit of narrowing and doubling down on a specific aspect. It can get overwhelming. Like with the Poxwalkers, would it kill them to sculpt some without the idiot smile and embody the grim outlook of death and decay, not just the joyous side of Nurgle?
I can see how there's room for criticism. Nurglings are still supposed to have nasty teeth and nasty habits. Laughing and bouncing while they eat you is well and good, but again there is just so much focus on the comic relief part that any other aspect of their character becomes neglected. And for that lack of diversity in portrayal, is it any wonder if someone comes and says it's "cutesy trash"?
Why would they embody the "grim outlook of death and decay"? Nurgle has always been joyous. It's probably the only thing that survived the decade of XTREME GRIMDARKNESS (2007-2017, R.I.P.)
Perhaps the Nurgle aesthetic isn't for you if you don't like 35 years of it?
usernamesareannoying wrote: hell, the poxwalkers are all smiling so something must be fun on the other side of that rift.
This exemplifies why I can see that someone might suffer from theme overload. GW has a habit of narrowing and doubling down on a specific aspect. It can get overwhelming. Like with the Poxwalkers, would it kill them to sculpt some without the idiot smile and embody the grim outlook of death and decay, not just the joyous side of Nurgle?
I can see how there's room for criticism. Nurglings are still supposed to have nasty teeth and nasty habits. Laughing and bouncing while they eat you is well and good, but again there is just so much focus on the comic relief part that any other aspect of their character becomes neglected. And for that lack of diversity in portrayal, is it any wonder if someone comes and says it's "cutesy trash"?
Why would they embody the "grim outlook of death and decay"? Nurgle has always been joyous. It's probably the only thing that survived the decade of XTREME GRIMDARKNESS (2007-2017, R.I.P.)
Perhaps the Nurgle aesthetic isn't for you if you don't like 35 years of it?
Disease, decay and dying are painful and Nurgle does not take that pain away from his followers. He just stops the part where his diseases are fatal to his followers. At least that's what the background used to be when I read it.
You'll notice I'm not disputing that Nurgle has always been joyous. I'm critical of narrowing him down to that specific aspect. I'm not asking for it to go away, I'm asking for balanced portrayal of all of Nurgle's characteristics. It's the same as "Slaanesh = boobies". It's dull and repetitive design.
Anything to the effect of "Nurgle's aesthetic" doesn't exist if you want all 35 years of it. None of my 2nd ed Plague Marines have tentacles. Now they're drowning in them. So which one is the right portrayal? If it's all of it, maybe Nurgle's easthetic is something for me after all, if not in full, then selected parts of it. Which are not currently catered to.
Not sure if it's just me, but looking at what all these new DG units are called, it seems to be an awful lot like the space wolf Wolfie McWolfface naming method. I was hoping there was going to be less of that moving forward.
Yeah. The Beasts of nurgle are like happy puppys. Big, deadly happy puppys.
Why should exist beasts of nurgle that where different? Just to be more "dark" and "deadly"? It isn't their lore.
You have Khorne and Slaanesh for that kind of personality in their demons. Even Tzeentch in some cases.
Nurgle is happy, from the small Nurgling to the great Uncleans Ones, all of their daemons are always happy, all the time. Thats just how Nurgle is.
Disease, decay and dying are painful and Nurgle does not take that pain away from his followers. He just stops the part where his diseases are fatal to his followers. At least that's what the background used to be when I read it.
Actually yes. He takes away pain. The Nurgle Followers are so resistand because they don't feel anything. Thats why many sick people go look and pray for Nurgle blessing, so he can stop the pain they are suffering.
But I can agree in the fact that now Nurgle is all about tentacles when theres other forms of represent plague marines (Rusty for example as you said). But thats an aesthetic decision, not about the "theme" and personality of the God and their daemons.
Souljet wrote: Not sure if it's just me, but looking at what all these new DG characters are called, it seems to be an awful lot like the space wolf Wolfie McWolfface naming method. I was hoping there was going to be less of that moving forward.
That is sadly not likely to happen. We live in the copyright friendly age of nounnoun adjectivenoun names now. Expect more of this going forward, not less.
Souljet wrote: Not sure if it's just me, but looking at what all these new DG units are called, it seems to be an awful lot like the space wolf Wolfie McWolfface naming method. I was hoping there was going to be less of that moving forward.
I think we should all thank the Chapterhouse debacle for that. Naming will be more awful with each iteration.
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Galas wrote: Yeah. The Beasts of nurgle are like happy puppys. Big, deadly happy puppys. Why should exist beasts of nurgle that where different? Just to be more "dark" and "deadly"? It isn't their lore. You have Khorne and Slaanesh for that kind of personality in their demons. Even Tzeentch in some cases.
Nurgle is happy, from the small Nurgling to the great Uncleans Ones, all of their daemons are always happy, all the time. Thats just how Nurgle is.
I think the dissonance makes it great. I talked about the Danse Macabre but we can find it in cinema, think about the use of The Gonk in Romero's Dawn of the Dead. The final effect is sort of an eerie parody. (is not clumsy or unintentional, even greater filmmakers like Kubrik use it, think about the use of soundtrack dissonance with what happen on screen in Full Metal Jacket).
Galas wrote: Yeah. The Beasts of nurgle are like happy puppys. Big, deadly happy puppys.
Why should exist beasts of nurgle that where different? Just to be more "dark" and "deadly"? It isn't their lore.
You have Khorne and Slaanesh for that kind of personality in their demons. Even Tzeentch in some cases.
Nurgle is happy, from the small Nurgling to the great Uncleans Ones, all of their daemons are always happy, all the time. Thats just how Nurgle is.
You'd think he was growing something good in that garden The fact that they are happy all of time is a good thing. It provides a contrast to the morbid subject matter, which adds a certain disturbing quality to his lore.
FudgeDumper wrote: Thanks but I am aware of Nurgles playfull side. However these nurglings are way beyond playfull, its down right sculptor arch treason. You can tell the sculptor is French, thats the type of culture they have over there, no restraint at all.
I can't believe everyone just moved on without commenting on this. Gotta be one of the most ridiculously absurd comments I've ever seen LOL
A bit late to the party, but the recent article concerning the new Nurgle model shows how they remain the happy go lucky daemons:
Horticulous Slimux is the Grand Cultivator of Nurgle, and possibly Nurgle’s first Daemon. While Horticulous is much beloved by his master, he is notorious among the usually jovial Daemons of Nurgle for his lack of humour, known as “old sour-seed” – although any Nurglings caught sharing this opinion tend to find themselves being used as bait for Mulch, his monstrous mount.
He's a God of life and fecundity. A nature deity gone utterly insane, worrying solely about the quantity over quality. With every death, with every new disease spread, new microbes and bacteria come into existence, and as we know such simple organisms can evolve really quite rapidly.
To Nurgle, beings like us are somewhat selfish. We want to keep on going, when our demise could support trillions of bacteria, microbes, insects etc.
His followed (barring Plague Bearers, who are morose) take part in that joy, knowing that life flourishes upon and around them.
FudgeDumper wrote: Thanks but I am aware of Nurgles playfull side. However these nurglings are way beyond playfull, its down right sculptor arch treason. You can tell the sculptor is French, thats the type of culture they have over there, no restraint at all.
I can't believe everyone just moved on without commenting on this. Gotta be one of the most ridiculously absurd comments I've ever seen LOL
Interwebular equivalent of 'LEAVE IT DAVE, HE'S NOT WORTH IT'.
He's a God of life and fecundity. A nature deity gone utterly insane, worrying solely about the quantity over quality. With every death, with every new disease spread, new microbes and bacteria come into existence, and as we know such simple organisms can evolve really quite rapidly.
To Nurgle, beings like us are somewhat selfish. We want to keep on going, when our demise could support trillions of bacteria, microbes, insects etc.
His followed (barring Plague Bearers, who are morose) take part in that joy, knowing that life flourishes upon and around them.
TheDraconicLord wrote: A bit late to the party, but the recent article concerning the new Nurgle model shows how they remain the happy go lucky daemons:
Horticulous Slimux is the Grand Cultivator of Nurgle, and possibly Nurgle’s first Daemon. While Horticulous is much beloved by his master, he is notorious among the usually jovial Daemons of Nurgle for his lack of humour, known as “old sour-seed” – although any Nurglings caught sharing this opinion tend to find themselves being used as bait for Mulch, his monstrous mount.
He's a God of life and fecundity. A nature deity gone utterly insane, worrying solely about the quantity over quality. With every death, with every new disease spread, new microbes and bacteria come into existence, and as we know such simple organisms can evolve really quite rapidly.
To Nurgle, beings like us are somewhat selfish. We want to keep on going, when our demise could support trillions of bacteria, microbes, insects etc.
His followed (barring Plague Bearers, who are morose) take part in that joy, knowing that life flourishes upon and around them.
FudgeDumper wrote: Thanks but I am aware of Nurgles playfull side. However these nurglings are way beyond playfull, its down right sculptor arch treason. You can tell the sculptor is French, thats the type of culture they have over there, no restraint at all.
I can't believe everyone just moved on without commenting on this. Gotta be one of the most ridiculously absurd comments I've ever seen LOL
Interwebular equivalent of 'LEAVE IT DAVE, HE'S NOT WORTH IT'.
I'd argue that he's the god of the cycle of life and death, which would fit in with the nature aspect of him.
Things die, which allows other organisms to live, and these organism in turn will die to support the next generation, and so on.
Calling him a death god would incorrect, but so would be calling him a life god.
He actually shares the same darwinistic idea with Khorne. Khorne is survival of the fittest, with the strong fighters killing the weak, while Nurgle is more about resilience. In the 5th ed daemon codex, iirc, it describes those who died from one of his diseases being reborn as plague bearers, and the longer they hold off death the stronger the resulting demon becomes. This again ties in with the theme of Life and Death and the notion of survival of the fittest.
FudgeDumper wrote: Thanks but I am aware of Nurgles playfull side. However these nurglings are way beyond playfull, its down right sculptor arch treason. You can tell the sculptor is French, thats the type of culture they have over there, no restraint at all.
I can't believe everyone just moved on without commenting on this. Gotta be one of the most ridiculously absurd comments I've ever seen LOL
Eh, I'm not so sure about survival of the fittest. One of the big things about the corruption of the DG was nurgle showing them that it doesn't matter if you are the fittest or toughest, everything weakens and dies eventually.
That's just my take though, I agree with the circle of life thing otherwise!
Yep, Nurgle represents disease and decay, but also rebirth, and each thing having its part in the food chain/circle of life.
This is why Tzeentch is one of only two entities in existence who can reliably piss off Nurgle (the other being the Emperor, that rat-bastard). Nurgle's ultimate, longest-term goal is the total death and decay of the universe, so that he can rebuild it as a better universe (for a certain definition of "better"). Tzeentch, uniquely, seems to enjoy screwing with Nurgle's long-term plan for no apparent reason; after all, in Nurgle's view, the death of the universe is inevitable, but Tzeentch keeps on trolling Nurgle anyway.
SilverAlien wrote: Eh, I'm not so sure about survival of the fittest. One of the big things about the corruption of the DG was nurgle showing them that it doesn't matter if you are the fittest or toughest, everything weakens and dies eventually.
That's just my take though, I agree with the circle of life thing otherwise!
I have 3 reasons that I think this -
1) Historically Nurgle units have been noted for being tougher than most chaos units 2) That aforementioned bit of lore about stronger infected becoming stronger demons. 3) Granted, most eventually succumbs to his disease, but you then you have particularly strong individuals who've been infected for a very long time and show no signs of dying (ie Plague Marines, Morty), which does time into that concept of survival of the fittest, something that is found in nature. Its not as obvious as Khorne, but its there.
Yeah. The Beasts of nurgle are like happy puppys. Big, deadly happy puppys.
Why should exist beasts of nurgle that where different? Just to be more "dark" and "deadly"? It isn't their lore.
That's actually the lore behind the Plague Flies! Beasts of nurgle who have grown bitter and undergo a metamorphosis to something worse to hunt their old playmates down.
Many of Nurgle's daemons are filled with the joy of spreading his gift across the galaxy.
They love it, except Plaguebearers, who are miserable bastards.
At least in the Black Library fluff they are supported as generally happy gits. All the GUO sound like they are having a grand old time! Even going as far back as "Space Wolf". Look at the Nurgling on the new Horticulous model, despite being used as bait he seems pretty happy.
usernamesareannoying wrote: hell, the poxwalkers are all smiling so something must be fun on the other side of that rift.
This exemplifies why I can see that someone might suffer from theme overload. GW has a habit of narrowing and doubling down on a specific aspect. It can get overwhelming. Like with the Poxwalkers, would it kill them to sculpt some without the idiot smile and embody the grim outlook of death and decay, not just the joyous side of Nurgle?
I can see how there's room for criticism. Nurglings are still supposed to have nasty teeth and nasty habits. Laughing and bouncing while they eat you is well and good, but again there is just so much focus on the comic relief part that any other aspect of their character becomes neglected. And for that lack of diversity in portrayal, is it any wonder if someone comes and says it's "cutesy trash"?
Why would they embody the "grim outlook of death and decay"? Nurgle has always been joyous. It's probably the only thing that survived the decade of XTREME GRIMDARKNESS (2007-2017, R.I.P.)
Perhaps the Nurgle aesthetic isn't for you if you don't like 35 years of it?
TFW someone thinks the period of time when 40K was being made steadily more heroic and less grimdark in tone culminating in the present storyline where Primarchs punch baddies in the face alonside their Spacier Space Marines was "XTREME GRIMDARKNESS"
TFW someone thinks the period of time when 40K was being made steadily more heroic and less grimdark in tone culminating in the present storyline where Primarchs punch baddies in the face alonside their Spacier Space Marines was "XTREME GRIMDARKNESS"
Not sure I'd run it up to 2017 (except with FW & Black Library perhaps), but there was a trend in those years when 40K (nearly) lost its grimdark Sherlock Obiwan Clousseau roots and tried to Nolan-Batman-grim-no-irony the whole thing to pretty pathetic and disastrous effect, nearly losing everything that made it unique.
Remnants still exist. Black Library not too long ago put out a 12-book series on Orks without a single orky joke in them .. everything straight-face-Heresy-style-very-very-serious. Let's hope we never see those days again.
TFW someone thinks the period of time when 40K was being made steadily more heroic and less grimdark in tone culminating in the present storyline where Primarchs punch baddies in the face alonside their Spacier Space Marines was "XTREME GRIMDARKNESS"
Not sure I'd run it up to 2017 (except with FW & Black Library perhaps), but there was a trend in those years when 40K (nearly) lost its grimdark Sherlock Obiwan Clousseau roots and tried to Nolan-Batman-grim-no-irony the whole thing to pretty pathetic and disastrous effect, nearly losing everything that made it unique.
Remnants still exist. Black Library not too long ago put out a 12-book series on Orks without a single orky joke in them .. everything straight-face-Heresy-style-very-very-serious. Let's hope we never see those days again.
Are you talking about the Beast thing? Because the whole storyline was the punchline. PrimeOrk or whatever? If that isn't Orky nonsense, what is?!
Are you talking about the Beast thing? Because the whole storyline was the punchline. PrimeOrk or whatever? If that isn't Orky nonsense, what is?!
Ok. The PrimeOrk wordplay was fun. But hardly the punchline of the story. More the last-second-not-really-twist of a slasher movie. We killed the bad guy! No we didn't, there're more of them. Scream did it better in the 90s and it hardly made up for 11 1/2 books of Prequel-George-Lucas-Style-Space-Diplomacy-Meetings and forced Heresy Easter Eggs.
Are you talking about the Beast thing? Because the whole storyline was the punchline. PrimeOrk or whatever? If that isn't Orky nonsense, what is?!
Ok. The PrimeOrk wordplay was fun. But hardly the punchline of the story. More the last-second-not-really-twist of a slasher movie. We killed the bad guy! No we didn't, there're more of them. Scream did it better in the 90s and it hardly made up for 11 1/2 books of Prequel-George-Lucas-Style-Space-Diplomacy-Meetings and forced Heresy Easter Eggs.
6th edition of Warhammer Fantasy was pretty famous for is GRIMDARK EVERYTHING!
Bretonnia transform from the idealistic medieval france version of 5th edition with noble knights and ladys and peasants that with honour and valor become knights and nobles, to a medieval hellhole where the nobles had a 90% tax in the peasants and everyone was poor and die all the time. The same happened to Wood Elves.
They changed that with 8th edition, infamous for his "No guys, Dark Elves aren't bad guys, they are just Misunderstood. Plus Malekith was the real Phoenix King all along!"
The problem is not if it is grimdark or not grimdark. Is when they lost sight of their roots and take itself very seriously as Wonderwolf said. Grimdark doesn't mean that everything is bad and very very serious. Is darkness in a hyperbolic and ironic way.
Big fan the massive Mortarian model (I love it as much as I love Archaon on his multiheaded dragon thing, and the Greater Daemon of Tzeentch kit....Sadly, also like those other large-expensive kits...I don't love it enough to drop that much cash on a single model. Same will also likely go for the rumored Greater Daemon of Nurgle....
The slug guy is super sweet. Dangerous and dark enough, while still a bit tongue-in-cheek. I actually love the execution. I already have the Getting Started with Nurgle box though, and don't need/want any Sigmarines, so all that tax doesn't make grabbing the box anywhere close to worth it for me. I suppose ebay will be the best place to grab him...assuming it will be cheaper than buying him individually (when and if they release him packaged solo).
The irony, however, is that the world's most recognizable wargaming product in the world's arguably best-known wargame, the Space Marine, has been designed by Jes Goodwin & co. explicitly drawing (among other things) on Anime.
As Jes Goodwin wrote for example on the release of plastic Terminators in 2005 (emphasis mine).
This recent overhaul of the Terminator design brings it into line with progress made in appearance of the Space Marines in general. The suit is now bigger and takes on the “Anime” proportions bestowed on the rest of the range – longer legs, wider shoulders and a bigger chest. The larger bases and plastic component nature of the hard copies allows for more versatile poses especially in the legs giving the suits more dynamism. The hip shields are inherited from the new Grey Knight designs.
They changed that with 8th edition, infamous for his "No guys, Dark Elves aren't bad guys, they are just Misunderstood. Plus Malekith was the real Phoenix King all along!"
Oh but this never happened. LALALALALALA CANNOT HEAR YOU!
dan2026 wrote: Many of Nurgle's daemons are filled with the joy of spreading his gift across the galaxy.
They love it, except Plaguebearers, who are miserable bastards.
I am hoping the new GUO is one happy bastard.
Well Plaguebearers are basically Nurgle"s accountants, so it makes sense.
nobody else finds it weird that the Deathshroud (Or, if you want to be picky, Death Guard Giant Scythe Wielding Terminators Who May Or May Not Be Deathshroud) have gone from wearing Tartaros armour to wearing Cataphractii armour?
(I know the HH rules allow you to WYSIWYG terminator marks, but model-wise)
Charax wrote: nobody else finds it weird that the Deathshroud (Or, if you want to be picky, Death Guard Giant Scythe Wielding Terminators Who May Or May Not Be Deathshroud) have gone from wearing Tartaros armour to wearing Cataphractii armour?
(I know the HH rules allow you to WYSIWYG terminator marks, but model-wise)
Yeah a bit. But honestly it probably works better this way in 8th at least. Those guys are deepstriking or piling in a land raider, so the movement bonus/penalty hardly matters. The extra protection is very welcome however.
dan2026 wrote: Many of Nurgle's daemons are filled with the joy of spreading his gift across the galaxy.
They love it, except Plaguebearers, who are miserable bastards.
I am hoping the new GUO is one happy bastard.
Well Plaguebearers are basically Nurgle"s accountants, so it makes sense.
Oh that's right, they spend their time keeping track of who got killed by what disease.
Even for a demon of decay and despair that sounds boring.
Also, this is sorta on topic, what's GW's policy on review copies of codices in general? I ask because we had a couple reviews out before the codices were on preorder last time (albeit barely). Can we expect that again? Or was that a fluke?
Galas wrote: Bretonnia transform from the idealistic medieval france version of 5th edition with noble knights and ladys and peasants that with honour and valor become knights and nobles, to a medieval hellhole where the nobles had a 90% tax in the peasants and everyone was poor and die all the time. The same happened to Wood Elves.
Actually, that was kinda reverting to the original depiction of Bretonnia before 5th.
Don't know why Morty is being so poorly received. I think the model looks awesome and fitting to the Nurgle theme. I think the paint scheme does not do the model any justice and is too bright. I also have a feeling they will give different head options. I have an idea on the scheme I will paint him and I will probably end up removing some of the nurglins. I am excited to see the rules too. Morty is a badass in 30k with his redeployment ability and silences' strength is certain situations. Morty is pretty bad at primarch v. Primarch, but man does he tear apart squads like they are nothing. I hope he plays a similar role in 40k.
dan2026 wrote: Many of Nurgle's daemons are filled with the joy of spreading his gift across the galaxy.
They love it, except Plaguebearers, who are miserable bastards.
I am hoping the new GUO is one happy bastard.
Well Plaguebearers are basically Nurgle"s accountants, so it makes sense.
Oh that's right, they spend their time keeping track of who got killed by what disease.
Even for a demon of decay and despair that sounds boring.
Well they are a dour folk mostly as a result. More serious, less cheerful. There's a reason why by comparison the Zombies, the nurglings, the beasts, and the GUO are the most friendly, while the Bloatflies and the Plaguebearers the most sour of the group.
SilverAlien wrote: Also, this is sorta on topic, what's GW's policy on review copies of codices in general? I ask because we had a couple reviews out before the codices were on preorder last time (albeit barely). Can we expect that again? Or was that a fluke?
There'll be an embargo on reviews, no doubt. General rule of thumb on embargoes is if you break it to score geek points... well, don't expect a free review copy next time, eh?
O'Shovah's Desciple wrote: Don't know why Morty is being so poorly received. I think the model looks awesome and fitting to the Nurgle theme. I think the paint scheme does not do the model any justice and is too bright. I also have a feeling they will give different head options. I have an idea on the scheme I will paint him and I will probably end up removing some of the nurglins. I am excited to see the rules too. Morty is a badass in 30k with his redeployment ability and silences' strength is certain situations. Morty is pretty bad at primarch v. Primarch, but man does he tear apart squads like they are nothing. I hope he plays a similar role in 40k.
I lot of people prefered the old stick thin, grim reaper Mortarion. To be honest, I would have quite liked to see an updated version of the Grim Reaper Morty, would have been interesting.
Saying that, I don't like the Morty model because I don't like the look of any of the new DG models: the paint scheme was god awful but even with different paint schemes I haven't been able to bring myself to get any of them. I can't really describe it but there is something about every single model GW has released in 8th ed that doesn't sit right with me, I'll have to see how they handle some different factions.
Some completionist will bite, like the ultra expensive Videogame deluxe editions that give you... 3-4 cosmetic items. 98% of the people will see that and say "What a piece of BS", but some is gonna buy it. So the company loses 0 by trying.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I am a completionist. The existence of these 3 Plague Marine in such an exploitative, massively and unnecessarily overpriced package galls me.
Then what are you waiting for? Maybe they have the same DG bodies as the starter set ones, but...
H.B.M.C. wrote: I am a completionist. The existence of these 3 Plague Marine in such an exploitative, massively and unnecessarily overpriced package galls me.
Then what are you waiting for? Maybe they have the same DG bodies as the starter set ones, but...
I'm not proud, but I'm going to buy them. Hopefully the art and book stuff are cool. If it's actually a nice 'bonus' package then I can see it, but the minis still feel lazy.
I'm not proud, but I'm going to buy them. Hopefully the art and book stuff are cool. If it's actually a nice 'bonus' package then I can see it, but the minis still feel lazy.
If this move is successful, nothing will stop them. Do as you wish, but remember your (limited) power as a consumer.
Galas wrote: 6th edition of Warhammer Fantasy was pretty famous for is GRIMDARK EVERYTHING!
Bretonnia transform from the idealistic medieval france version of 5th edition with noble knights and ladys and peasants that with honour and valor become knights and nobles, to a medieval hellhole where the nobles had a 90% tax in the peasants and everyone was poor and die all the time. The same happened to Wood Elves.
They changed that with 8th edition, infamous for his "No guys, Dark Elves aren't bad guys, they are just Misunderstood. Plus Malekith was the real Phoenix King all along!"
The problem is not if it is grimdark or not grimdark. Is when they lost sight of their roots and take itself very seriously as Wonderwolf said. Grimdark doesn't mean that everything is bad and very very serious. Is darkness in a hyperbolic and ironic way.
The Bretonnian and Wood Elf objections are my favourite, given they both got "prettied up" around 4th and the grinding 'orrible oppressed peasants/spiteful and fickle creatures shtick was a return to their earlier form. You can still find crustly old WHFB fans in the groggiest parts of the online fandom that lament the addition of even a teeny little bit of Arthurian legend to the Bretonnia they still cleave to where it was basically Medieval France But Worse In Every Way And Also Chaos, even the grimdarkified version of knightly mythology.
Personally I quite enjoyed "Prime Grimdark" times, the tail end of 2nd 40K through 3rd and circa 6th Ed WHFB produced some of GW's best art, game design, and fiction; some say it was 100% SRS BSNS but there was still plenty of tongue firmly in cheek through the 90's and early oughts it was just a tad less obvious and, IMO, less juvenile than the earlier "har har the orc did a smelly fart"/Obiwan Sherlock Cluseau stuff - GorkaMorka was the opposite of po-faced, Mordheim was packed full of mental surrealism, Necromunda was often batgak crazy etc etc. It was after that, when the style changed into what people came to use Ward as a shorthand for, that things lost the sense of the absurd and that wasn't in the pursuit of grimdark but of minimising it, of crafting a version of the settings where the in-fiction propaganda version of Marines and the Imperium(and most of WHFB) began to replace the cynical, wry, subversive prior versions in the actual writing.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I am a completionist. The existence of these 3 Plague Marine in such an exploitative, massively and unnecessarily overpriced package galls me.
Yeah GW has been doing alright this year but this one puts a bad taste in my mouth. Just for some retooled sculpts and paper. Makes SW Legion look even better, maybe some competition on the market will be healthy.
I feel that nostalgia speaks more than content to a lot of people. I go back to read old lore, look at old art, and have trouble finding anything objectively better than what we have now. The tone might be different but that's a matter of preference, not quality. I think people rose-goggle Warhammer fluff a LOT and that while it may not be great now it isn't actually any worse. Further, the fluff of a universe as large and long-lived as Warhammer simply won't be as good as something constrained to a few novels, single game, etc. It's simply impossible for all of the content to be high-quality all of the time, other settings that are as widespread and long lived inevitably suffer in the same way. Many people end up dissapointed with fluff they would enjoy if their expectations were simply more realistic.
Now before I get jumped on, this does not mean all Warhammer fluff is good, bad, or uniform in any manner. This does not mean I feel any criticism is invalid, or that everyone who dislikes recent fluff developments is wrong. Just that many people build up their memory of older versions into something better than what the reality was, or ever could be.
The Bretonnian and Wood Elf objections are my favourite, given they both got "prettied up" around 4th and the grinding 'orrible oppressed peasants/spiteful and fickle creatures shtick was a return to their earlier form. You can still find crustly old WHFB fans in the groggiest parts of the online fandom that lament the addition of even a teeny little bit of Arthurian legend to the Bretonnia they still cleave to where it was basically Medieval France But Worse In Every Way And Also Chaos, even the grimdarkified version of knightly mythology.
Personally I quite enjoyed "Prime Grimdark" times, the tail end of 2nd 40K through 3rd and circa 6th Ed WHFB produced some of GW's best art, game design, and fiction; some say it was 100% SRS BSNS but there was still plenty of tongue firmly in cheek through the 90's and early oughts it was just a tad less obvious and, IMO, less juvenile than the earlier "har har the orc did a smelly fart"/Obiwan Sherlock Cluseau stuff - GorkaMorka was the opposite of po-faced, Mordheim was packed full of mental surrealism, Necromunda was often batgak crazy etc etc. It was after that, when the style changed into what people came to use Ward as a shorthand for, that things lost the sense of the absurd and that wasn't in the pursuit of grimdark but of minimising it, of crafting a version of the settings where the in-fiction propaganda version of Marines and the Imperium(and most of WHFB) began to replace the cynical, wry, subversive prior versions in the actual writing.
This is all true. Speaking in general, and to reference what I posted above about the parallelisms with cinema and directors, good writing can be, too, walk the fine line between different tones and genres in order to create something unique and well executed, elegant even. As an example, I strongly suggest to read how the fluff was not only written, but conceived and presented between the 3rd edition and the 5th edition Necron Codex. The changes are well beyond how the race is imagined (and the personal tastes about it), and are iconic of the stylistic shift (and the loss of skill). I cannot help to think that older writers were simply people with a better education.
Concerning the art, I just refuse to discuss it. Old art was visionary, inspired and inspiring, it gave more than a more representation of an individual or a scene - you got an expansion, a glimpse at the universe or at least a strong suggestion about the overall tone. Modern art is, with few exceptions, coldly technical at best, or a deviantart-tier representation of the models at its worst, often mediocre in technique and style.
So yeah, no rose-tinted glasses, old stuff was, in many (not all) aspects better. Only rule writing has always ben schizophrenic
$70 dollary-doos for 3 marine models? Yeah how about no, GW. Especially since the New Primaris models are in 5 packs and are $55 Aussie...
One thing I'm noticing with all of these new Nurgle models is that they all borrow elements from each other, similar poses or you take an arm and simply put it on the other side of the body and what not... I know it's nit picky and it's probably saved them money whilst still making each model unique, I just sort of keep seeing it after having bought the DI set and the extra Nurgle models (including the PW) that have followed.
I love them and it gives me reasons to convert them it just also somehow feels a bit sloppy and lazy on their behalf.
I will not defend the price of this exclusive DG 3-pack (not possible in my opinion), but one thing really has to stop. This nonsense:
Marine_With_Heart wrote: One thing I'm noticing with all of these new Nurgle models is that they all borrow elements from each other, similar poses or you take an arm and simply put it on the other side of the body and what not... I know it's nit picky and it's probably saved them money whilst still making each model unique, I just sort of keep seeing it after having bought the DI set and the extra Nurgle models (including the PW) that have followed.
I love them and it gives me reasons to convert them it just also somehow feels a bit sloppy and lazy on their behalf.
Apart from similar poses this is just not true. Look at the models (or pictures of them) - and really look at them, instead of a short glance. Apart from two models from the DI set (which share identical bodies and backpacks), and the odd part of a backpack here and there, none of the Plaguemarines so far have "shared elements". Similar details are spread over all models, not identical ones though. Id that is an issue your you though, I wonder what you have to say about the SM range... "oh noes, only copies of the same one model!!11"?
I just wished people would stop with the hyperbole. Complain about the release schedule or the prices - there are some issues with both. But GW giving you new models? Don't you have real problems in life?
bubber wrote: I still can't get over the pricing of this guy. £18 for a unit upgrade, £7 more than most of the named Blood Angel characters.
Almost makes the £25 for these 3 seem reasonable!
The price of clampacks is GW's effort to support the converting community, similarly the price of collector's DG isn't for three random plague marines but for three characters that you will convert from them!
Darnok wrote: I will not defend the price of this exclusive DG 3-pack (not possible in my opinion), but one thing really has to stop. This nonsense:
Marine_With_Heart wrote: One thing I'm noticing with all of these new Nurgle models is that they all borrow elements from each other, similar poses or you take an arm and simply put it on the other side of the body and what not... I know it's nit picky and it's probably saved them money whilst still making each model unique, I just sort of keep seeing it after having bought the DI set and the extra Nurgle models (including the PW) that have followed.
I love them and it gives me reasons to convert them it just also somehow feels a bit sloppy and lazy on their behalf.
Apart from similar poses this is just not true. Look at the models (or pictures of them) - and really look at them, instead of a short glance. Apart from two models from the DI set (which share identical bodies and backpacks), and the odd part of a backpack here and there, none of the Plaguemarines so far have "shared elements". Similar details are spread over all models, not identical ones though. Id that is an issue your you though, I wonder what you have to say about the SM range... "oh noes, only copies of the same one model!!11"?
I just wished people would stop with the hyperbole. Complain about the release schedule or the prices - there are some issues with both. But GW giving you new models? Don't you have real problems in life?
I disagree here buddy - the three new chaps in the crazy expensive kit are mirrored models with tweaks from the DI set. Its fairly clear when you match them to their mirror that both came from the same stock design, mirrored, and then details tweaked - ie helmet, swapped backpacks from the stock packs, moved the damage to the armour. There is more than casual similarity between the matched pairs - fundamentally they are the same snap fit
Spoiler:
I dont know how to load these images to Dakka so heres the link to the Imgur album
If you consider buying the webstore exclusive set just wait for the 10-model PM kit. Maybe we can build nearly identical models with it. We only need the heads.
The left-handed meltagun is a nice feature. But this is nothing we couldn't replicate. I chopped up one of my DI Plaguemarine squads, a Plaguecaster and a Blightbringer so I have bodies, arms and other bits to use with the multipart kit. It should be available at the end of September or early October.
I was quite happy to see these are just basic troopers and not HQ choices or other models you actually need for your army.
I feel that nostalgia speaks more than content to a lot of people. I go back to read old lore, look at old art, and have trouble finding anything objectively better than what we have now. The tone might be different but that's a matter of preference, not quality. I think people rose-goggle Warhammer fluff a LOT and that while it may not be great now it isn't actually any worse. Further, the fluff of a universe as large and long-lived as Warhammer simply won't be as good as something constrained to a few novels, single game, etc. It's simply impossible for all of the content to be high-quality all of the time, other settings that are as widespread and long lived inevitably suffer in the same way. Many people end up dissapointed with fluff they would enjoy if their expectations were simply more realistic.
Now before I get jumped on, this does not mean all Warhammer fluff is good, bad, or uniform in any manner. This does not mean I feel any criticism is invalid, or that everyone who dislikes recent fluff developments is wrong. Just that many people build up their memory of older versions into something better than what the reality was, or ever could be.
It's not so much that the old fluff was "Grrrrrrrreat!", it's more that the new fluff is so bad by comparison. Nothing released in 8th ed (or late 7th ed) that I've read (mainly fluff add ons to rule books: Traitor's hate, Wrath of Magnus, Dark Imperium, etc.) has really been that interesting to me. I'm finding the same is happening with the art: the art pieces from 3rd/4th/5th/6th were never going to end up in an art gallery but they look so much better than the new art that's been released.
I disagree here buddy - the three new chaps in the crazy expensive kit are mirrored models with tweaks from the DI set. Its fairly clear when you match them to their mirror that both came from the same stock design, mirrored, and then details tweaked - ie helmet, swapped backpacks from the stock packs, moved the damage to the armour. There is more than casual similarity between the matched pairs - fundamentally they are the same snap fit
Spoiler:
Thank you for the comparison image, as it proves my point: apart from the poses and a few odd details these models are fundamentally different sculpts. Of course the digital sculpting process and some copying plaed a role in the similarities, but they are more different than a big part of the SM range - as just one example. How one can come to something like the bolded statement above is way beyond me - we must be looking at different pictures.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Wow. You weren't kidding. They are mirrored.
Will the WD article that comes with it need to be read using a mirror?
That's new, isn't it? GW's been working with CAD and asset libraries for a while and it's probably a big part of why they can churn out so many releases. And it's also not like this is a CAD only thing. Twenty years ago they would take a metal character and resculpt wargear and some details and you'd get a very similar model, too, getting more mileage out of a sculptor's work.
But actually going and just mirroring the basic model before sticking different bits on? Wow. That's something.
A bit of a drive by posting as I'm busy but, has anyone already pointed out that the left hand of those limited Death Guard looks like they have copied the design for Chaplain Cassius from the Overkill box?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
A bit of a drive by posting as I'm busy but, has anyone already pointed out that the left hand of those limited Death Guard looks like they have copied the design for Chaplain Cassius from the Overkill box?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
A bit of a drive by posting as I'm busy but, has anyone already pointed out that the left hand of those limited Death Guard looks like they have copied the design for Chaplain Cassius from the Overkill box?
Corvus Belli does similiar pose cloning with their CAD stuff. The get a lot of flak for it, too. If I remember my examples right they use some poses for totally different types of models in a few cases and the cloning still shows.
Since GW was milling a new injection mold for those guys anyway, a few pose tweaks should've been done. Even other premade parts switched out for 1:1 mirror stuff would go a long way and the guy based on lamprey-mouth shows that. The right arm seems to be a cloned part of the DI Marine with bolter slung under the arm and the knife arm might be taken from one of the other 3-pack Marines. Adjusting the poses a tiny bit after mirroring them or tacking on existing CAD limbs would make a huge difference, too.
It might be laziness. It might have to do with the mould making process where existing parts are already designed for cuts, undercuts and sprue layout. Maybe both.
At the GW asking price this is all academic for me, at almost tripple the price of the other 3-pack (even more if you buy the mini starter which also had prints included;, retailer discounts over MO prices not even considered) they are both comparatively and in absolute monetary terms wayyy to expensive IMO. And I like them more than their DI counterparts! 32€ is getting into heavily discounted SC territory or could buy me an old school regiment box from the few that are left (still need some Kroot).
Maybe GW should go back to multi-part, multi-pose kits and cloning wouldn't be as much of an issue. The trend towards monopose has really undermined the hobby aspect, in that all armies are now looking more and more the same.
Binabik15 wrote: Corvus Belli does similiar pose cloning with their CAD stuff. The get a lot of flak for it, too. If I remember my examples right they use some poses for totally different types of models in a few cases and the cloning still shows.
It was pretty common among GW's metal miniatures. I mean, the best examples are the Necromunda range and the metal Guard ranges, which were full of similar models with slightly different positions/weapon load outs, all based around the same 4-5 core miniatures.
And that was fine. It's just the way metal models were done, same as the "2D" nature of making metal minis across as single plane to decrease the amount of parts needed (the Phoenix Lords are great examples of this).
With mirroring plastic minis like this? Seems kinda cheap... or expensive, really, given it's seventy-fething-dollars for 3 of the damned things.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Wow. You weren't kidding. They are mirrored.
Will the WD article that comes with it need to be read using a mirror?
That's new, isn't it? GW's been working with CAD and asset libraries for a while and it's probably a big part of why they can churn out so many releases. And it's also not like this is a CAD only thing. Twenty years ago they would take a metal character and resculpt wargear and some details and you'd get a very similar model, too, getting more mileage out of a sculptor's work.
But actually going and just mirroring the basic model before sticking different bits on? Wow. That's something.
Part of me thinks that perhaps these were alternative kits or weapon combos or other designs for marines that were cut from the DI box or something for balance or not as preferred over the marines they did include.
[quote=FrothingMuppet 732375 9579370 cd168907df57fc0f9a0faa2cdf941460.jpgIts fairly clear when you match them to their mirror that both came from the same stock design, mirrored, and then details tweaked - ie helmet, swapped backpacks from the stock packs, moved the damage to the armour.
So, like nearly everything GW is doing for Marines, that share a unit type or box. The are fairly different, to count as reworked models. And while the prices are steep, the models are at least different - probably as different as it will get with the new "multi part" philosophy.
And hey, they can only be bought in the Webstore and have 3 (THREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Postcards with artwork and a booklet with them. It clearly shows the target group that this is aimed at - those crazy collector, who have money lying around and love stuff like that. And are willing to play GW's cashgrab game. A disappointing release but one that will make GW money.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Maybe GW should go back to multi-part, multi-pose kits and cloning wouldn't be as much of an issue. The trend towards monopose has really undermined the hobby aspect, in that all armies are now looking more and more the same.
This is why, aside from Magnus, a Heldrake and cultists, I have not added a new model to my CSM army that's got a sculpt younger than about 13 years. I just feel the new models are cartoon like and increasingly far too uniform. Every single minature in my CMS army is unique, I have no repeat poses or combinations at all outside of the metal daemons; even my bog standard marines are each an individual character. I will be getting the new Ahriman though as I do love that new sculpt; a shame he doesn't have rules to go with it.
On topic, I really like the new Mortarion model, it genuinely looks threatening and with the right paint scheme will be ace.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Maybe GW should go back to multi-part, multi-pose kits and cloning wouldn't be as much of an issue. The trend towards monopose has really undermined the hobby aspect, in that all armies are now looking more and more the same.
This is why, aside from Magnus, a Heldrake and cultists, I have not added a new model to my CSM army that's got a sculpt younger than about 13 years. I just feel the new models are cartoon like and increasingly far too uniform. Every single minature in my CMS army is unique, I have no repeat poses or combinations at all outside of the metal daemons; even my bog standard marines are each an individual character. I will be getting the new Ahriman though as I do love that new sculpt; a shame he doesn't have rules to go with it.
On topic, I really like the new Mortarion model, it genuinely looks threatening and with the right paint scheme will be ace.
I am surprised we've not had any rules leaks yet.
This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.
Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.
Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.
Qlanth wrote: This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.
Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.
Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.
The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true
Qlanth wrote: This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.
Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.
Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.
The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true
Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.
Qlanth wrote: This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.
Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.
Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.
The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true
Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.
He's not Supersonic/Hard to hit so it would only be -1 to hit.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Maybe GW should go back to multi-part, multi-pose kits and cloning wouldn't be as much of an issue. The trend towards monopose has really undermined the hobby aspect, in that all armies are now looking more and more the same.
This is why, aside from Magnus, a Heldrake and cultists, I have not added a new model to my CSM army that's got a sculpt younger than about 13 years. I just feel the new models are cartoon like and increasingly far too uniform. Every single minature in my CMS army is unique, I have no repeat poses or combinations at all outside of the metal daemons; even my bog standard marines are each an individual character. I will be getting the new Ahriman though as I do love that new sculpt; a shame he doesn't have rules to go with it.
On topic, I really like the new Mortarion model, it genuinely looks threatening and with the right paint scheme will be ace.
I am surprised we've not had any rules leaks yet.
This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.
Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.
Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.
If true, I was hoping for much better toughess and wounds on him. The aura is great though. Hope this means he would be around same price as Magnus. Funny that Magnus will probably be much tougher though.
Virules wrote: If true, I was hoping for much better toughess and wounds on him. The aura is great though. Hope this means he would be around same price as Magnus. Funny that Magnus will probably be much tougher though.
Why is Magnus much tougher? Mortarian is gonna get a 5+++ and may have the same 4++ as Magnus.
Qlanth wrote: This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.
Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.
Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.
The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true
Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.
I could be wrong but I thought a key part of Mortarion's backstory was his distrust of psykers?
Virules wrote: If true, I was hoping for much better toughess and wounds on him. The aura is great though. Hope this means he would be around same price as Magnus. Funny that Magnus will probably be much tougher though.
Why is Magnus much tougher? Mortarian is gonna get a 5+++ and may have the same 4++ as Magnus.
Magnus can cast +1 to invul save on himself and rerolls invul saves of 1. So you have a 3++ rerolling 1s versus a 4++ followed by 5++. I don't know the math, but I would rather have a really good chance of blocking all damage than having to take mortal wound saves against 1/3 of the wounds that got through my worse invul saves. Of course, a 5++ is better when you have mortal wounds.
Being able to move 32" with Magnus is also greater for survival and getting into melee, whereas Morty won't have that. Also, while Morty can get -1 to hit cast on him, you have the same thing for the first round anyway with Changeling on Magnus.
Qlanth wrote: This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.
Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.
Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.
The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true
Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.
He's not Supersonic/Hard to hit so it would only be -1 to hit.
Qlanth wrote: This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.
Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.
Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.
The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true
Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.
I could be wrong but I thought a key part of Mortarion's backstory was his distrust of psykers?
Yeah, he hated psykers, to the point that Typhon had to pretend that he wasn't a psyker around Mortarion. Delicious irony, that.
The irony being he (Mortarion) started using "magic" i.e. psychic power to combat them. He ultimately became a psyker, there's even a HH short about his initial forays, but I forget the name (or it may be a section of a novel, it all blends together a bit.)
Qlanth wrote: This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.
Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.
Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.
The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true
Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.
I could be wrong but I thought a key part of Mortarion's backstory was his distrust of psykers?
He was convinced that learning how to use psychic powers would allow him to better destroy Psykers, ultimately becoming what he hated most
Qlanth wrote: This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.
Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.
Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.
The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true
Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.
I could be wrong but I thought a key part of Mortarion's backstory was his distrust of psykers?
He was convinced that learning how to use psychic powers would allow him to better destroy Psykers, ultimately becoming what he hated most
I think the anti psyker sentiment goes out the window when you worship a chaos god besides khorne.
Virules wrote: If true, I was hoping for much better toughess and wounds on him. The aura is great though. Hope this means he would be around same price as Magnus. Funny that Magnus will probably be much tougher though.
Why is Magnus much tougher? Mortarian is gonna get a 5+++ and may have the same 4++ as Magnus.
Magnus can cast +1 to invul save on himself and rerolls invul saves of 1. So you have a 3++ rerolling 1s versus a 4++ followed by 5++. I don't know the math, but I would rather have a really good chance of blocking all damage than having to take mortal wound saves against 1/3 of the wounds that got through my worse invul saves. Of course, a 5++ is better when you have mortal wounds.
Being able to move 32" with Magnus is also greater for survival and getting into melee, whereas Morty won't have that. Also, while Morty can get -1 to hit cast on him, you have the same thing for the first round anyway with Changeling on Magnus.
Morty will probably have disgusting resilience for a 5+ against each wound suffered, putting him at an effective 27 wounds.
Binabik15 wrote: Corvus Belli does similiar pose cloning with their CAD stuff. The get a lot of flak for it, too. If I remember my examples right they use some poses for totally different types of models in a few cases and the cloning still shows.
It was pretty common among GW's metal miniatures. I mean, the best examples are the Necromunda range and the metal Guard ranges, which were full of similar models with slightly different positions/weapon load outs, all based around the same 4-5 core miniatures.
And that was fine. It's just the way metal models were done, same as the "2D" nature of making metal minis across as single plane to decrease the amount of parts needed (the Phoenix Lords are great examples of this).
With mirroring plastic minis like this? Seems kinda cheap... or expensive, really, given it's seventy-fething-dollars for 3 of the damned things.
It might be a case of diminishing returns, kind of. As you said metals were pretty flat at the time and with less detail (or less busy, depending on your prerences in miniature design). The Plague Marines are so crusted with fine details you kind of glaze over that the silhoutte is somehow more important. The metal ganger models are individuals with a different head, gun and sime bits and bobs because each part makes a big difference.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Wow. You weren't kidding. They are mirrored.
Will the WD article that comes with it need to be read using a mirror?
That's new, isn't it? GW's been working with CAD and asset libraries for a while and it's probably a big part of why they can churn out so many releases. And it's also not like this is a CAD only thing. Twenty years ago they would take a metal character and resculpt wargear and some details and you'd get a very similar model, too, getting more mileage out of a sculptor's work.
But actually going and just mirroring the basic model before sticking different bits on? Wow. That's something.
Part of me thinks that perhaps these were alternative kits or weapon combos or other designs for marines that were cut from the DI box or something for balance or not as preferred over the marines they did include.
Seems plausible. Would result in four pairs of clones and an unique dude and the sarge in a ten man squad. The one doubled up pair of sculpt in the box is much simpler in what was changed, though. Maybe they were dropped at an early stage of sprue design when they didn't have space enough.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Morty will probably have disgusting resilience for a 5+ against each wound suffered, putting him at an effective 27 wounds.
Yes, but not really due to the way you roll to save each individual wound from a multi-damage gun.
You take a wound from a damage 3 weapon. Armor/invul fails. You roll three dice for disgusting resilience, turning what would have been 3 damage into 2 damage. It is exactly like what I said.
Azreal13 wrote: The irony being he (Mortarion) started using "magic" i.e. psychic power to combat them. He ultimately became a psyker, there's even a HH short about his initial forays, but I forget the name (or it may be a section of a novel, it all blends together a bit.)
Qlanth wrote: This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.
Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.
Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.
The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true
Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.
I could be wrong but I thought a key part of Mortarion's backstory was his distrust of psykers?
He was convinced that learning how to use psychic powers would allow him to better destroy Psykers, ultimately becoming what he hated most
I think the anti psyker sentiment goes out the window when you worship a chaos god besides khorne.
He still both loathes and loves psykers/psychic powers/himself 10,000 years later - at the HH Weekender, Chris Wraight described his relationship with the warp as that of an alcoholic, even as a Daemon Primarch.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Maybe GW should go back to multi-part, multi-pose kits and cloning wouldn't be as much of an issue. The trend towards monopose has really undermined the hobby aspect, in that all armies are now looking more and more the same.
And yet there is far more variety in an army composed of repeats of 10 highly individual, dynamic sculpts than what you typically get with the "modular" minis that are really just different combinations of repeats of 4 components all in the same "pooping standing up" pose with the bonus that you can wiggle the waist and shoulder a little, but honestly not that much or it looks unnatural.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Maybe GW should go back to multi-part, multi-pose kits and cloning wouldn't be as much of an issue. The trend towards monopose has really undermined the hobby aspect, in that all armies are now looking more and more the same.
And yet there is far more variety in an army composed of repeats of 10 highly individual, dynamic sculpts than what you typically get with the "modular" minis that are really just different combinations of repeats of 4 components all in the same "pooping standing up" pose with the bonus that you can wiggle the waist and shoulder a little, but honestly not that much or it looks unnatural.
The Vanguard Veteran box begs to differ. That was a multi-pose, multi-part kit that allowed for a load of customization and options without the unit looking too similar across expanded squad sizes. Whereas when you get the monopose sculpts, you wind up with a bland looking unit. Just look at Fulgurites. No reason those can't have more variation, but they don't. You get 5 heads for 5 models. Nothing extra. 5 arm poses. Nothing extra. 5 sets of legs. Nothing extra. I have ten painted and I did light customization work (changing closed/open hands) and even still they all look so similar due to that.
While I appreciate the higher detail and whatnot, that we are getting much more limited posing seems to limit the hobby aspect. I would like to see more variation, not less, but GW is going that route now. At least the weird LE 3-pack are mirrors with changes, so they won't look too obviously the same.
Sorry if it seemed I ignored you
Or maybe they'll split the reboxes between the new stuff, or after everything else, we can only hope.
