I thought Morty would get a damage reduction type saves like the wave serpent.

Pretty stoked overall though.

I sure hope we get some info this weekend about our codex and Morty. They are breaking trend and releasing other things before the rest of our range for some reason, so I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they just didn't mention anything.
But I have my hopes up anyway...

Apologies if this has already been answered, but are Nurgle Daemons going to be in the codex? I'm wondering if I should get Death guard or generic CSM.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Apologies if this has already been answered, but are Nurgle Daemons going to be in the codex? I'm wondering if I should get Death guard or generic CSM.

Not that they've mentioned. While they could be, and it's almost certain they'll get the basics like Plague bearers or even Nurglings, I'm not expecting the full range to be in the codex. That'll be left to the Daemon Codex I assume

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Apologies if this has already been answered, but are Nurgle Daemons going to be in the codex? I'm wondering if I should get Death guard or generic CSM.

It also might be worth considering both not just for daemons, but other units such as vanilla Sorcerors and the like. I picked up the Chaos Codex today because I don't expect to fill every niche that I want to with Death Guard.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Apologies if this has already been answered, but are Nurgle Daemons going to be in the codex? I'm wondering if I should get Death guard or generic CSM.

I don't know the full list but the new WD says the Codex has 33 datasheets for the units that make uo the Death Guard.

 puma713 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Apologies if this has already been answered, but are Nurgle Daemons going to be in the codex? I'm wondering if I should get Death guard or generic CSM.

It also might be worth considering both not just for daemons, but other units such as vanilla Sorcerors and the like. I picked up the Chaos Codex today because I don't expect to fill every niche that I want to with Death Guard.

I'm playing just the daemons, not the actual DG.

At any rate thanks for the info all ')

The new Nurgle daemon models are ahead, most likely this year, maybe even a week or two after the 40k DG release. It seems they will come via AoS, the Blight War storyline, and (if the rumors from reliable sources turn out to be true) the wave consists of new Nurgle daemon models, but also Pestigors. It is likely we will get 40k rules for those, including Beastmen, in a follow-up (for all gods) Chaos Daemon Codex this or early next year. There may be a few exceptions, Slimux e.g., but most of it should be for 40k as well.

Rules may also be on the GW website before the book (a la Genestealer Cult) and/or in the boxes. Points online before a Codex may be a thing too. After the DG release I want to continue this thread with 40k Nurgle Daemons. They are not in the same book. How the release would be handled was unclear when I started collecting info so I did not separate them early on. The 1st post will be updated with new info and restructured accordingly.

Maybe the DG codex has a few daemon units like Plaguebearers and Nurglings but otherwise they are clearly not in the same book if articles and WD info have not been misleading which I think is not the case.

 puma713 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Apologies if this has already been answered, but are Nurgle Daemons going to be in the codex? I'm wondering if I should get Death guard or generic CSM.

It also might be worth considering both not just for daemons, but other units such as vanilla Sorcerors and the like. I picked up the Chaos Codex today because I don't expect to fill every niche that I want to with Death Guard.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if our Vanilla Sorcerers and Lords from the Index were rolled into Plaguecasters and Lords of Contagion - with them getting more options as a result.

But 33 Datasheets - taking what we've seen from photos, WD and already existing...

Mortarion
Typhus
Lord of Contagion
Malignant Plaguecaster
Foul Blightspawn
Daemon Prince

Noxious Blightbringer
Tallyman
Biologus Putrifier
Deathshroud Terminators
Plague Terminators
Helbrute
Possessed

Poxwalkers
Plague Marines

Chaos Rhino

Foetid Bloat Drone
Chaos Spawn

Plague Tank Variant #1
Plague Tank Variant #2
Chaos Land Raider
Chaos Predator
Defiler

That's 23 - not including generic Chaos Lords (Terminator and normal) or Chaos Sorcerers (Terminator or normal) or normal Cultists - That'd be a further 5, leaving only 5 mysteries. Personally I hope that they merge the normal power armoured Sorcerers with Plaguecasters and Termi-Lords with Lords of Contagion. That would then put us at 7 mystery units - possibly Daemons? (GUO, Herald, Plaguebearers, Beasts, Nurglings, Drones, Soulgrinders - hey, that's 7.....

More Drones for the Drone God!

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 puma713 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Apologies if this has already been answered, but are Nurgle Daemons going to be in the codex? I'm wondering if I should get Death guard or generic CSM.

It also might be worth considering both not just for daemons, but other units such as vanilla Sorcerors and the like. I picked up the Chaos Codex today because I don't expect to fill every niche that I want to with Death Guard.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if our Vanilla Sorcerers and Lords from the Index were rolled into Plaguecasters and Lords of Contagion - with them getting more options as a result.

But 33 Datasheets - taking what we've seen from photos, WD and already existing...

Spoiler:

Mortarion
Typhus
Lord of Contagion
Malignant Plaguecaster
Foul Blightspawn
Daemon Prince

Noxious Blightbringer
Tallyman
Biologus Putrifier
Deathshroud Terminators
Plague Terminators
Helbrute
Possessed

Poxwalkers
Plague Marines

Chaos Rhino

Foetid Bloat Drone
Chaos Spawn

Plague Tank Variant #1
Plague Tank Variant #2
Chaos Land Raider
Chaos Predator
Defiler

That's 23 - not including generic Chaos Lords (Terminator and normal) or Chaos Sorcerers (Terminator or normal) or normal Cultists - That'd be a further 5, leaving only 5 mysteries. Personally I hope that they merge the normal power armoured Sorcerers with Plaguecasters and Termi-Lords with Lords of Contagion. That would then put us at 7 mystery units - possibly Daemons? (GUO, Herald, Plaguebearers, Beasts, Nurglings, Drones, Soulgrinders - hey, that's 7.....

I wouldn't expect normal Cultists, Chaos Lords, or Chaos Sorcerers.

I would expect a Havoc-esque troop type that can be built from the Plague Marine kit with multiple specials.

If I were to speculate?

HQ:
Typhus
Lord of Contagion
Malignant Plaguecaster
Daemon Prince
Great Unclean One--this could possibly be two profiles and Daemon Princes get left out as a generic "Chaos Marines" or "Daemons of Chaos" thing instead.
Named Great Unclean One
Epidemius
Herald of Nurgle


Elite:
Noxious Blightbringer
Tallyman
Biologus Putrifier
Possessed
Helbrute
Deathshroud Terminators
Plague Terminators
Beasts of Nurgle(I could see them getting moved to Fast Attack though)

Troops:
Pestigors. We've had them mentioned several times with relation to 40k now, and the Rotbringers preview stuff for AoS has brought them up now as well.
Plague Marines
Plaguebearers
Poxwalkers
Nurglings

Fast Attack:
Foetid Bloat-Drone
Plague Drone
Chaos Spawn
Possibly Beasts of Nurgle if they get moved to here.
Maggoths. They get mentioned in Dark Imperium's novel, from what I've been told, and it would not be unbelievable to see a kit released for them with no rider. It's been hinted at more recently with Age of Sigmar that instead of being corrupted beasts they're daemonic instead, so it could be a good way to add a bit of "raaawr, monster!" to Death Guard.

Heavy Support:
Death Guard Havoc-esque unit.
Tank variant #1
Tank variant #2
Predator
Land Raider
Defiler

Transport:
Chaos Rhino

Lord of War:
Mortarion

Bam. 33 profiles.

while I would like to see nurgle daemons and marines in the same codex, I guess I'd be kinda surprised if that actually ends up happening, given that it's specifically "Codex: Death guard", and not say, "Codex: Nurgle Daemonkin" or something.

also, wouldn't that make for a fair bit of redundancy? specifically in the troops section, poxwalkers, plaguebearers, pestigors, nurglings...do we really need that many fairly weak/squishy meatshield/objective blobbing units?

Except Kan that you miss out the Foul Blightspawn which is stated to be a character in the WD blurb.

Plus the photos show a Daemon Prince regularly. So I don't see the Daemon Prince disappearing as an options...

Plaguebearers and Nurglings are probably in for summoning a la Codex: CSM.

The rest? I doubt it.

 ZoBo wrote:
while I would like to see nurgle daemons and marines in the same codex, I guess I'd be kinda surprised if that actually ends up happening, given that it's specifically "Codex: Death guard", and not say, "Codex: Nurgle Daemonkin" or something.

also, wouldn't that make for a fair bit of redundancy? specifically in the troops section, poxwalkers, plaguebearers, pestigors, nurglings...do we really need that many fairly weak/squishy meatshield/objective blobbing units?

GW and redundant datasheets....um...

Would you like to count the amount of dreadnoughts in SM? 5.
There's also 4 Terminator squads.
And the cursory 2 Veteran squads.

When a lot of these could be condensed and changed to weapon options really...

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Except Kan that you miss out the Foul Blightspawn which is stated to be a character in the WD blurb.

Plus the photos show a Daemon Prince regularly. So I don't see the Daemon Prince disappearing as an options...

I don't have the WD; it came out yesterday and I have no subscription.

Do we actually know what the "Foul Blightspawn" is?

Revised HQ:
Typhus
Lord of Contagion
Daemon Prince
Foul Blightspawn
Great Unclean One
Named Great Unclean One
Herald of Nurgle

I could see Epidemius being the thing dropped in that case. That's assuming "Foul Blightspawn" isn't a name for a Death Guard Daemon Prince.

It's "7 new characters" not "7 characters in the entire book" or "7 HQs" just so well know. Also, we aren't sure if stuff from the index like lord of contagion is "new".

You also seem to be assuming DG will lose access to all generic HQs they had in the index. Which would be very odd to say the least.

Honestly though, I'd be fairly angry if we lost actual space marines in the codex and hand more demons. I don't want to play demons, I'm tired of demons being a patch for CSM awfulness in 7th. Bad enough at the plaguebearers wasting space in our book, just so we can hypothetically use those awful demon summoning rules.

In short: It's virtually impossible to fit daemons of nurgle in DG codex without stripping out multiple units from out index entry, and we should all be very happy about this.

 Kanluwen wrote:
That's assuming "Foul Blightspawn" isn't a name for a Death Guard Daemon Prince.

I'd actually be in favour of that to be honest as it implies the Daemon Prince is different from a standard prince. I really do hope we don't see any Copy-Paste jobs with the exception of Plague Marines or any Daemons that slip in there for summoning purposes.

Of course, we're probably going to have copy-paste vehicles, which is a shame....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverAlien wrote:
It's "7 new characters" not "7 characters in the entire book" or "7 HQs" just so well know. Also, we aren't sure if stuff from the index like lord of contagion is "new".

You also seem to be assuming DG will lose access to all generic HQs they had in the index. Which would be very odd to say the least.

Honestly though, I'd be fairly angry if we lost actual space marines in the codex and hand more demons. I don't want to play demons, I'm tired of demons being a patch for CSM awfulness in 7th. Bad enough at the plaguebearers wasting space in our book, just so we can hypothetically use those awful demon summoning rules.

In short: It's virtually impossible to fit daemons of nurgle in DG codex without stripping out multiple units from out index entry, and we should all be very happy about this.

To be honest, I'd rather the Generic HQs we had in the Index be rolled into the special HQs - with them getting more options as a result.

So Terminator Lords end up being Lords of Contagion.
Sorcerers end up as Plaguecasters and so forth....

That would mean that 2 of the new HQs are probably renamed or tweaked Power Armoured Lords and Terminator Sorcerers. With the Foulspawn possibly being our Daemon Prince....

It also implies that they have something different to prevent them being a cut and paste job with a boring rename. And that is good. If I wanted to field an army where a large chunk didn't really have the special rules or equipment that matched them to the Death Guard then I'd probably just go play Alpha Legion instead.

Not actually new, just a larger outtake of the artwork we had been shown last week. Typhus looks promising

DeadFingers - B&C

Speaking of art, completely unrelated, but I just came across this completely unintentionally about half an hour ago. Can't find a source other than Pinterest, seems like it was uploaded directly to the site.

I cant wait for the next WarCom preview


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And another photo analysis by DeadFingers

There isn't really an "I think" about it, it is from that piece. Zero doubt.
 
In other news, tomorrow should be, must be, the day we start seeing previews. Again, as Marshal Loss noted, GW do next week's preorder previews on Sundays, and we know Mortarion and the Codex are coming, so surely we will see the first preview of both of them tomorrow, unless they really are enjoying our suffering. Hopefully it'll be followed by a week-long parade of Death Guard previews for both models and rules, as the "First Look" at the Codex was lacking, let's be honest.
 
In the meantime, how about another round of "Mildly interesting image crops with DeadFingers"? Just cause I'm bored and stuck here with nothing to do for a while.
 
I was too busy looking at the weapon itself and the mechanical tappa-tappas to notice that this thing has arms. I don't know if it was mechanical at first and it grew arms later or they made it like this to begin with, but I'm liking it. Getting some serious Half-life 2 Combine (heh, combine) technology vibes from it. Yes, even more than before.

 
One of these things is not like the others. Or rather, two of these things are very much like each other. The two rightmost Terminators seem to share the same frontal torso, as the little pipe to the side of their heads seems to indicate. That means that one of these guys doesn't belong in this squad. The missing Terminator is "Spiky" from the previous group shot. We know "DK", the smiling Terminator, is carrying a weapon seemingly identical to the Drone's Plague Spitter, so if DK and Spiky go in the same squad, I assume we get at least two heavy weapon options per squad of five.


 
These two fellas share the same pose, but their heads, bellies, shoulder pads and some details (like whatever the second one is holding with his right hand) are different. Are the Deathshroud stuck in one pose each, or did they assemble two of them in the same pose for some reason?


 
FLIES EVERYWHERE. Like really, I keep finding more every time I give the pics a good look. The first two are actually the same one seen from different angles, it's flying next to Typhus. I love it. Makes me wonder how many flies and nurglings are scattered through the kits.




 
And speaking of nurglings, it doesn't matter how hard I look, I can only see five of them around Mortarion, counting the cherubs too. The fifth one is a sneaky lil' git, you can barely see a gasmask between the two clearly visible nurglings on the base. I must say, I'll be deeply upset if Morty doesn't come with seven little companions at his side, and I will be forced to convert some if that's the case. After all, what would Snow Blight be without the Seven Warts?

Edit: links fixed

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
To be honest, I'd rather the Generic HQs we had in the Index be rolled into the special HQs - with them getting more options as a result.

So Terminator Lords end up being Lords of Contagion.
Sorcerers end up as Plaguecasters and so forth....

That would mean that 2 of the new HQs are probably renamed or tweaked Power Armoured Lords and Terminator Sorcerers. With the Foulspawn possibly being our Daemon Prince....

It also implies that they have something different to prevent them being a cut and paste job with a boring rename. And that is good. If I wanted to field an army where a large chunk didn't really have the special rules or equipment that matched them to the Death Guard then I'd probably just go play Alpha Legion instead.

I mean, I'm a bit confused why you don't want an effective army deathguard army but to each their own. I mean, I suppose it's possible we could be viable without any decent long range anti tank for example. Or any HQs with actual useful auras that can act as a proper force multiplier. I'm so ecstatic that we are getting terminators (probably either plague marine boosts but who knows) so we have some actual useful deepstrikers given the already obvious issue with the deathshroud terminators. Plus you know, not having my existing DG army totally invalidated would be nice. Keeping predators, generic HQs, and terminators at least means I'm not rebuilding from the ground up.

SilverAlien wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
To be honest, I'd rather the Generic HQs we had in the Index be rolled into the special HQs - with them getting more options as a result.

So Terminator Lords end up being Lords of Contagion.
Sorcerers end up as Plaguecasters and so forth....

That would mean that 2 of the new HQs are probably renamed or tweaked Power Armoured Lords and Terminator Sorcerers. With the Foulspawn possibly being our Daemon Prince....

It also implies that they have something different to prevent them being a cut and paste job with a boring rename. And that is good. If I wanted to field an army where a large chunk didn't really have the special rules or equipment that matched them to the Death Guard then I'd probably just go play Alpha Legion instead.

I mean, I'm a bit confused why you don't want an effective army deathguard army but to each their own. I mean, I suppose it's possible we could be viable without any decent long range anti tank for example. Or any HQs with actual useful auras that can act as a proper force multiplier. I'm so ecstatic that we are getting terminators (probably either plague marine boosts but who knows) so we have some actual useful deepstrikers given the already obvious issue with the deathshroud terminators. Plus you know, not having my existing DG army totally invalidated would be nice. Keeping predators, generic HQs, and terminators at least means I'm not rebuilding from the ground up.

You wouldn't be losing your generic HQs though.

If a Terminator Chaos Lord becomes a Lord of Contagion...what exactly has changed for you? Your Terminator Lord has a different name and better fits with the army.

We've already seen DG Terminators with normal layouts so the Terminator side of things seems to have settled. Unless you really, really want to run plain generic next to your Death Guard without any of the actual DG benefits? In which case, your book already came out. It's CSM.

I'd really rather have our units be renamed, have their stats modified and gain a rule or two than see a cut and paste job from CSM.

Nothing more jarring than half your army having Rule X - EXCEPT THIS ONE UNIT WHICH DOESN'T BECAUSE REASONS.

Well, you forgot our unique generic HQs have that really awful gimmicky melee focused aura which occasionally inflicts a mortal wound maybe. If that's our only aura, suddenly our shooting game goes notably downhill and even or melee game isn't really boosted. So we'd be stuck with the outright worse version, which would be depressing.

Basically, we know a lot of CSM is fairly usable. So having some of that in our army to fall back on would be nice, given how most of the unique DG stuff has ranged from mediocre to bad.

For an example that isn't HQs, it's nice to know we have 4 ppm cultists if they are actually going to try and leave poxwalkers at 6 ppm, that way we have a useful alternative. Because most of unique stuff hasn't been good.

SilverAlien wrote:
Well, you forgot our unique generic HQs have that really awful gimmicky melee focused aura which occasionally inflicts a mortal wound maybe. If that's our only aura, suddenly our shooting game goes notably downhill and even or melee game isn't really boosted. So we'd be stuck with the outright worse version, which would be depressing.

Basically, we know a lot of CSM is fairly usable. So having some of that in our army to fall back on would be nice, given how most of the unique DG stuff has ranged from mediocre to bad.

For an example that isn't HQs, it's nice to know we have 4 ppm cultists if they are actually going to try and leave poxwalkers at 6 ppm, that way we have a useful alternative. Because most of unique stuff hasn't been good.

Well, now that the entire range of models all pretty much have plague weapons to re-roll 1's to wound, it's pretty much like having a lieutenant with an infinite range aura.

I think we should get an extra aura with the Lord of Contagion, but the mortal wound on a 4+ isn't that bad. A couple of turns locked in combat can really start shifting your way with a couple of good rolls of that. It's not outright the best thing hing ever, but it has helped me out just that little extra. Not to mention, that mixed with the plague caster's extra mortal wound when casting a power on a roll of 7+ doing another mortal wound, means tha the Lord + Plague caster can do 3-5 mortal wounds in a turn relatively easily, possibly even 8 if the caster rolls an 11 for the d6 mortal wounds. Now Guilliman has a wound left.

Also, seeing as the Plague Marines went down in cost, I can see Poxos going down to maybe 5ppm. Or being buffed a little to being less reliant on Typhus, because for those of us who want to use them but not Typhus get royally screwed at the moment.

However, I do agree that bringing a few units over would be good as they'd be used by DG, such as cultists. If our legion tactics are DR we may see Culstists with DR which, at that point, would pretty much be better than Poxos, so that would infer another possible reason to lower the Poxo's point cost (if DR is army wide and put on everything as Legion tactics).

A new shot with Guilliman, from WD via Natfka/Adeptus Astartes/B&C



Weapons are swapped between hands.

"Always epic in the scale and scope of its universe and imagery, today games of Warhammer 40,000 regularly see Primarchs bestriding the battlefield."

It's sad to see stuff like this presented as a positive thing, Primarchs don't leave much room on the battlefield for anyone else.

 Yodhrin wrote:
"Always epic in the scale and scope of its universe and imagery, today games of Warhammer 40,000 regularly see Primarchs bestriding the battlefield."

It's sad to see stuff like this presented as a positive thing, Primarchs don't leave much room on the battlefield for anyone else.

Until Magnus gets sucked into the turbine of a vendetta.

I wouldn't worry. Draigo's still got room to write his first name as well.

 Yodhrin wrote:
"Always epic in the scale and scope of its universe and imagery, today games of Warhammer 40,000 regularly see Primarchs bestriding the battlefield."

It's sad to see stuff like this presented as a positive thing, Primarchs don't leave much room on the battlefield for anyone else.

I agree in a way. Although I imagine theyll be used a lot, particularly if theyre powerful with the tourney/waac crowd, you can still play games and campaigns set on worlds/segmentums where they havent reachwed, or indeed play further back in time from the current timeline

I think the second/reverse build (gun in right hand, scythe in left) looks notably better but I can't really but my finger on why. Maybe the fact he looks like he's aiming makes the pose slightly more dynamic?

Still no DG community post? Are they really going to screw us even more?

There have been release-related community posts on mondays and even later They did not announce news for today

Yeah I've been checking every half hour or so. I'm hoping it's just a little late coming out. Of course, it could end up being about admech for all we know....

Edit: oh so that's confirmed no news today? Sad.

SilverAlien wrote:
Maybe the fact he looks like he's aiming makes the pose slightly more dynamic?

My thoughts exactly, and I will use the shooting pose if the kit will turn out to be impossible to magnetise in a practical way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverAlien wrote:
Yeah I've been checking every half hour or so. I'm hoping it's just a little late coming out. Of course, it could end up being about admech for all we know....

Edit: oh so that's confirmed no news today? Sad.

No, not confirmed. Just not announced or something like it. Maybe they plan to post about DG on monday

Warhams-77 wrote:
There have been release-related community posts on mondays and even later They did not announce news for today

The Warhammer TV team has been at the NoVA Open so content on Warhammer Community has been on the light side recently, but the preview looks like it's up now.

A new trailer is online: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oSUqmyh8lQ

I like the comic style, but I would rather have seen new models. Also the apothecarie and the potion dude were explicitly shown.

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:
A new trailer is online: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oSUqmyh8lQ

I like the comic style, but I would rather have seen new models. Also the apothecarie and the potion dude were explicitly shown.

...explicitly shown harvesting primaris geneseed...
I think that may be a small tidbit hinting to how GW will 'update' the chaos model range.

That comic style is so cheap. GW aren't even trying to hide they are not trying.[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

A little more info on Morty mainly it seems. He looks alright, I'm not super impressed. His auras are kinda... underwhelming. Reducing toughness doesn't really have the same impact as similar abilities last edition, the mortal wound thing isn't bad if you ram him into a bunch of elite enemies but kinda limited outside that. Of course it's entirely possible that his weapons make him an absolute beast in combat, I could easily see silence either having wound spill over or inflicting mortal wounds on high rolls, but just from the stat line he's nothing special.

So yeah, didn't see anything to get me excited in this. Well... He does have phosphex bombs which is neat.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/03/mortarion-and-the-death-guard-next-weekend/

Look at this:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/03/mortarion-and-the-death-guard-next-weekend/
We even get a preview of mortys rules. And he's 24 Might. well...

Oh right we did get a power cost. So that'd put him around 450-500 points roughly. That's... well silence better be absolutely amazing.

Notably more expensive than magnus, worse statline, worse aura, magnus has his improved psychic abilities vs DR and the mortal wound thing which is a wash honestly.

Well, at least I feel better knowing I won't probably won't feel compelled to buy his model just to make my army competitive. That's nice I guess?

SilverAlien wrote:
Oh right we did get a power cost. So that'd put him around 450-500 points roughly. That's... well silence better be absolutely amazing.

Im sure he will be pretty good even for his astronomical high point cost, I'm more worried about not being able to field anything else in the army if you take him. Death Guard units in general are already so expensive im not sure how you are supposed to field a 24 power model

Mortarion is considered a Lord of War choice and not a HQs. Honestly with his 3+ save I don't think he will survive long on the table.

broxus wrote:
Mortarion is considered a Lord of War choice and not a HQs. Honestly with his 3+ save I don't think he will survive long on the table.

3+ save, 4+ Invulnerable, and Disgustingly Resilient.

Alongside of 18 Wounds.

broxus wrote:
Mortarion is considered a Lord of War choice and not a HQs. Honestly with his 3+ save I don't think he will survive long on the table.

He's about as tanky as Magnus

broxus wrote:
Mortarion is considered a Lord of War choice and not a HQs. Honestly with his 3+ save I don't think he will survive long on the table.

Ah yes, like how Magnus is laughably weak. Oh wait...

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Oh right we did get a power cost. So that'd put him around 450-500 points roughly. That's... well silence better be absolutely amazing.

Im sure he will be pretty good even for his astronomical high point cost, I'm more worried about not being able to field anything else in the army if you take him. Death Guard units in general are already so expensive im not sure how you are supposed to field a 24 power model

Im not sure why you would assume that? Unless his wargear is amazing he won't even be as good as Magnus judging from what we've seen, despite costing more. Even then he's a massive target with mediocre durability, slow, can't hide behind troops, and his only redeeming features are tied into being very close to the enemy/melee. Maybe he gets his little teleport ability from HH, that might help.

Honestly though, I really wouldn't be worried about how you'd fit him into your army list right now. I have a feeling it'll be a non issue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:

broxus wrote:
Mortarion is considered a Lord of War choice and not a HQs. Honestly with his 3+ save I don't think he will survive long on the table.

He's about as tanky as Magnus

Also more expensive, slower base speed and can't use warp time, and less useful outside of melee due to no friendly aura and presumably weaker psychic powers.

I know we all want to be excited, but it's good to keep things in perspective. What they showed us was bad, getting excited right now is just begging to be disappointed later.

 Yodhrin wrote:
"Always epic in the scale and scope of its universe and imagery, today games of Warhammer 40,000 regularly see Primarchs bestriding the battlefield."

It's sad to see stuff like this presented as a positive thing, Primarchs don't leave much room on the battlefield for anyone else.

couldn't agree more. This page really reminded me how much I hate nu40K fluff. It's all about legendary heroes fighting mythical vilains, leaving no room for the common soldier or even supersoldier. Everything is epic now. Sure, these aspects were always present in 40k, but now it's been amped x10.

Thankfully, Necro is coming back, so I'll probably leave 40k for a while and go all in in Necromunda. Especially if they put various sects (chaos, genestealers) in the game

I did not defend Mortarion as a whole, I just defended his tankyness. And Im more disappointed in his point cost than excited about what weve seen so no worries Im keeping things in perspective.

SilverAlien wrote:
can't use warp time

Do we know for certain that Morty can't use Warptime?

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
I did not defend Mortarion as a whole, I just defended his tankyness. And Im more disappointed in his point cost than excited about what weve seen so no worries Im keeping things in perspective.

Fair enough, I just thought the Magnus comparison was a good way of illustrating what seems to be wrong with him.

Brian888 wrote:
Do we know for certain that Morty can't use Warptime?

I mean... it's possible the DG gain access to the generic CSM psychic power table with some units like generic sorcerers, but morty almost certainly won't. It's also possible the DG unique psychic power table might get some generic CSM powers, but again not very likely.

So not only is it extremely unlikely for morty to have access, it's entirely possible we won't have any access to it without allies.

Brian888 wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
can't use warp time

Do we know for certain that Morty can't use Warptime?

Put simply, no. We don't know what the Contagion Discipline spells will be yet.

It does not seem likely though.

Qlanth wrote:

Brian888 wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
can't use warp time

Do we know for certain that Morty can't use Warptime?

Put simply, no. We don't know what the Contagion Discipline spells will be yet.

It does not seem likely though.

And even if he doesn't have access to it, what's to stop you taking a sorcerer from C:CSM?

Personally I think he's easily worth 24 power, if you consider something like a Wraithknight or a normal Knight is around that cost.

I do suspect that the nurglings mentioned in his profile will actually have a weapon entry and provide a bunch of weak attacks.

3+ Save, T7?

Missile Launchers, Lascannons, readyyyyy... aiiiiiimmmm...

I have to say there's still multiple elements about Mortarion I'm really not a fan of, but that official picture has helped soften my stance from "totally not a fan" to "it's alright."

About the access of Warp Time
The White Dwarf entry of Datacards: Death Guard said the set contains 7 psychic powers. So either the Contagion discipline will get additional spells (which i doubt) or DG will be able to use the vanilla CSM disciple

FudgeDumper wrote:
That comic style is so cheap. GW aren't even trying to hide they are not trying.[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

Uhm... they are trailers for a model release... not Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

Wonder if the nurglings attending him can tank attacks like tau drones.....

Some screenshots of the video

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2381

 Crazyterran wrote:
3+ Save, T7?

Missile Launchers, Lascannons, readyyyyy... aiiiiiimmmm...

That is a lot of lascannons. 18 wounds, effectively 27 after the resilience rolls. That is, what, 8 lascannons on average. With a 4+ invulnerable that is 16 wounding lascannons, which needed a 3+ to wound so 24 hits. Fired from a BS3+ force is 36 lascannons shot.

Not familar with Magnus and any special stuff he gets, but on raw stats he is also T7 and 18 wounds with a 4+ invulnerable, but no resilience. That seems to make Mortarian quite a bit tougher to kill than Magnus in terms of raw firepower.

 mrhappyface wrote:
And even if he doesn't have access to it, what's to stop you taking a sorcerer from C:CSM?

So another hundred points and an allied detachment just to make the already absurdly expensive unit not awful? How good do you expect silence to be exactly? You could probably take a sorcerer and unit of 10 slaanesh plasma terminators for roughly the same price and erase multiple units of MEQ or TEQ.

Morty, along with a lot of the new stuff in our codex, is likely going to be overpriced. Just like our index was. Because they continue to overvalue certain elements, particularly the value of toughness or toughness lowering abilities I'd say. That's okay though, prices can and will be adjusted with chapter approved. Gives us all a bit of time to save up for and paint morty before he is worth actually using.

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
About the access of Warp Time
The White Dwarf entry of Datacards: Death Guard said the set contains 7 psychic powers. So either the Contagion discipline will get additional spells (which i doubt) or DG will be able to use the vanilla CSM disciple

Well yes of course it will. But why would contagion get warptime? I suppose it'd be easier and would make more sense given our index army had access to both the three generic CSM powers and our unique three, but honestly I'm not holding my breath.

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
About the access of Warp Time
The White Dwarf entry of Datacards: Death Guard said the set contains 7 psychic powers. So either the Contagion discipline will get additional spells (which i doubt) or DG will be able to use the vanilla CSM disciple

One of those cards is Smite, so that leaves six powers. They very well could be all new. We will have to see.

I'm disappointed so far. Morty is more expensive than Magnus, far less mobility, arguably the same or less durability (Magnus can have 3++ rerolling 1s and is -1 to hit near changeling), and auras seem good but not great. I'm hoping his melee weapon, psychic powers, and stratagems are good.

puree wrote:
That is a lot of lascannons. 18 wounds, effectively 27 after the resilience rolls. That is, what, 8 lascannons on average. With a 4+ invulnerable that is 16 wounding lascannons, which needed a 3+ to wound so 24 hits. Fired from a BS3+ force is 36 lascannons shot.

Not familar with Magnus and any special stuff he gets, but on raw stats he is also T7 and 18 wounds with a 4+ invulnerable, but no resilience. That seems to make Mortarian quite a bit tougher to kill than Magnus in terms of raw firepower.

Well his aura lets him reroll invulnerable saves of 1, which isn't as good as DR, puts him at around 28 lascannons shot. But again, morty costs 60 more points, is slower, and can't use warptime.

Magnus is as tough as he needs to be for his cost considering 32" move and 7" charge means he can reliably get into melee turn 1. Morty is 12" move, so not even half what Magnus can do. That's a lot more time being targeted by lascannons, and the expected difference is only 8 shots....

 Crazyterran wrote:
3+ Save, T7?

Missile Launchers, Lascannons, readyyyyy... aiiiiiimmmm...

You said missile, instead of rocket. Now it's going to miss. Always does when you call it a missile.

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
About the access of Warp Time
The White Dwarf entry of Datacards: Death Guard said the set contains 7 psychic powers. So either the Contagion discipline will get additional spells (which i doubt) or DG will be able to use the vanilla CSM disciple

You doubt they would add 3 additional powers to the Contagion Discipline (like they did with Dark Hereticus), but assume instead that they'd just toss the Contagion Discipline out entirely and give Death Guard the same powers as regular CSM? Did it make more sense when you typed it?

I'd be shocked if the 7 book powers weren't Smite, the 3 Contagion powers we've had already, plus three new ones for a full, expanded Discipline. Could be as simple as porting over the powers from the Nurgle Daemons psychic discipline, but that might be a bit lazy. However, Death Guard (and by extension Mortarion) getting access to Fleshy Abundance would be pretty great.

On the Mortarion durability front, since he'll presumably have access to the Contagion Discipline, being able to cast Miasma of Pestilence on himself is a plus. As long as they spell goes off, that essentially gives him the same durability as Magnus within range of the Changeling, and he takes his -1 to hit with him. Speaking of auras, I'm certainly hoping Mortarion has some benefit for Death Guard and their Disgustingly Resilient rolls, as Magnus does with Thousand Sons and re-rolling 1's on their Invuls. That, plus any other potential new Contagion spell buffs could help his durability out, and certainly a Daemon Prince following behind Morty casting Fleshy Abundance each turn would not be remiss. I am also in the camp of being somewhat disappointed with his stock durability (T8 or a few more wounds than Magnus seemed a reasonable expectation), but still hopeful that there's more potential there that just hasn't been previewed yet. We shall see....


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SilverAlien wrote:
Well his aura lets him reroll invulnerable saves of 1, which isn't as good as DR

Until you cast Weaver of Fates on him, then that re-roll 1's pushes him past Disgustingly Resilient.

While it'd be hilarious, I can't imagine morty having a third aura on top of his toughness decreasing and mortal wounds auras.

On the other hand, given we've seen a plague chemist character and an apothecary type character, we will almost certainly have access to some sort of character buff to DR.

And yes you are correct, but I was ignoring the psychic defense buffs (+1 inv and -1 shooting) for both characters, given it more or less results in the same gap between them I think.

Sokhar wrote:

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
About the access of Warp Time
The White Dwarf entry of Datacards: Death Guard said the set contains 7 psychic powers. So either the Contagion discipline will get additional spells (which i doubt) or DG will be able to use the vanilla CSM disciple

You doubt they would add 3 additional powers to the Contagion Discipline (like they did with Dark Hereticus), but assume instead that they'd just toss the Contagion Discipline out entirely and give Death Guard the same powers as regular CSM? Did it make more sense when you typed it?

I'd be shocked if the 7 book powers weren't Smite, the 3 Contagion powers we've had already, plus three new ones for a full, expanded Discipline. Could be as simple as porting over the powers from the Nurgle Daemons psychic discipline, but that might be a bit lazy. However, Death Guard (and by extension Mortarion) getting access to Fleshy Abundance would be pretty great.

On the Mortarion durability front, since he'll presumably have access to the Contagion Discipline, being able to cast Miasma of Pestilence on himself is a plus. As long as they spell goes off, that essentially gives him the same durability as Magnus within range of the Changeling, and he takes his -1 to hit with him. Speaking of auras, I'm certainly hoping Mortarion has some benefit for Death Guard and their Disgustingly Resilient rolls, as Magnus does with Thousand Sons and re-rolling 1's on their Invuls. That, plus any other potential new Contagion spell buffs could help his durability out, and certainly a Daemon Prince following behind Morty casting Fleshy Abundance each turn would not be remiss. I am also in the camp of being somewhat disappointed with his stock durability (T8 or a few more wounds than Magnus seemed a reasonable expectation), but still hopeful that there's more potential there that just hasn't been previewed yet. We shall see....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverAlien wrote:
Well his aura lets him reroll invulnerable saves of 1, which isn't as good as DR

Until you cast Weaver of Fates on him, then that re-roll 1's pushes him past Disgustingly Resilient.

What I meant was that I think we'll either get Smite, the 3 old Contagion spells and 3 new Contagion spells OR Smite, the 3 old Contagion spells plus 3 Dark Hereticus spells, which could include Warp Time. Hope that clears things up

I'm 100% sure they'll have their own powers unique from heretic marines. I'm also sure that when the thousand sons book comes out Magnus will lose access to them.

So much conjecture and wild statements like mine being thrown about just chillax and see how it lands.

SilverAlien wrote:
While it'd be hilarious, I can't imagine morty having a third aura on top of his toughness decreasing and mortal wounds auras.

Three different aura effects WOULD be kinda strange, but probably even stranger for a Primarch to have no actual synergy with the Legion he leads, don't you think? Obviously I'm just speculating, but I'll remain hopeful that he has some sort of buffing ability for Death Guard, and that he's not just a beatstick purely.

Sokhar wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
While it'd be hilarious, I can't imagine morty having a third aura on top of his toughness decreasing and mortal wounds auras.

Three different aura effects WOULD be kinda strange, but probably even stranger for a Primarch to have no actual synergy with the Legion he leads, don't you think? Obviously I'm just speculating, but I'll remain hopeful that he has some sort of buffing ability for Death Guard, and that he's not just a beatstick purely.

Well the toughness decreasing aura would be indirect synergy, making enemies easier for his army to wound. Arguably makes sense for him to give indirect buffs considering he wasn't much of a leader and generally pushed his men towards self reliance. From what I understand this got even worse when they fell and he got warpified. So I can see some justification for it.

Honestly though, I'm waiting to see if there is anything about him that justifies his price tag. So far it doesn't look it, but another aura, or a unique ability, or absurd wargear could all be what makes him good.

Dudeface wrote:
I'm 100% sure they'll have their own powers unique from heretic marines. I'm also sure that when the thousand sons book comes out Magnus will lose access to them.

So much conjecture and wild statements like mine being thrown about just chillax and see how it lands.

Tbf, we are starved for things to discuss so everything is being analyzed.

As for Magnus losing access to warptime eventually, that's fair. The problem is, that's a cornerstone of what makes Magnus worth taking so it still doesn't really help make morty look any better. Just arguing they both might be bad eventually.

SilverAlien wrote:

Sokhar wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
While it'd be hilarious, I can't imagine morty having a third aura on top of his toughness decreasing and mortal wounds auras.

Three different aura effects WOULD be kinda strange, but probably even stranger for a Primarch to have no actual synergy with the Legion he leads, don't you think? Obviously I'm just speculating, but I'll remain hopeful that he has some sort of buffing ability for Death Guard, and that he's not just a beatstick purely.

Well the toughness decreasing aura would be indirect synergy, making enemies easier for his army to wound. Arguably makes sense for him to give indirect buffs considering he wasn't much of a leader and generally pushed his men towards self reliance. From what I understand this got even worse when they fell and he got warpified. So I can see some justification for it.

Honestly though, I'm waiting to see if there is anything about him that justifies his price tag. So far it doesn't look it, but another aura, or a unique ability, or absurd wargear could all be what makes him good.

Dudeface wrote:
I'm 100% sure they'll have their own powers unique from heretic marines. I'm also sure that when the thousand sons book comes out Magnus will lose access to them.

So much conjecture and wild statements like mine being thrown about just chillax and see how it lands.

Tbf, we are starved for things to discuss so everything is being analyzed.

As for Magnus losing access to warptime eventually, that's fair. The problem is, that's a cornerstone of what makes Magnus worth taking so it still doesn't really help make morty look any better. Just arguing they both might be bad eventually.

Yeah I appreciate that, it's just some people are far too quick to fire from the hip with only a small fraction of knowledge, the whole picture may be totally different.

From the various screenshots and things shown so far, I'm glad to see that Mortarion isn't nearly as tall as Magnus turned out to be. Excluding the wings, Mortarion is roughly 6 3/4" at the top of that spike. Meanwhile Magnus can't even hide himself behind an imperial knight. The only issue would come down to the wings, which seem rather large. Too bad things are true LoS in 8th. In 7th Mort might have had an enormous advantage.

So um... do we know if this "Foulspawn" character is the same as that cultist that became a chaos spawn before becoming a daemon prince, or is GW just forgetting they already had a character named Foulspawn?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Foulspawn

The toughness debuff could potentially be pretty potent; it makes Blight Launchers and Flails of Corruption wound medium vehicles on 4's and MEQ's on 2's. Add in the plague weapon rule for reroll 1's and your plague marines are pretty lethal.

Arachnofiend wrote:
The toughness debuff could potentially be pretty potent; it makes Blight Launchers and Flails of Corruption wound medium vehicles on 4's and MEQ's on 2's. Add in the plague weapon rule for reroll 1's and your plague marines are pretty lethal.

things will be dying left, right and center

@Arachnofiend: But you have to get real close to be that lethal. And the DG aren´t really mobile and flexible in their fluff. So how will we get to the enemy and make sure, that he stays where he is?
I can´t wait to see the options to get the forces moving on the board.

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:
@Arachnofiend: But you have to get real close to be that lethal. And the DG aren´t really mobile and flexible in their fluff. So how will we get to the enemy and make sure, that he stays where he is?
I can´t wait to see the options to get the forces moving on the board.

Mortarion has to be within 7".
He has Movement 12" when at full strength and will likely have Fly.

I don't think it will be a huge problem getting him into position.

There will probably be some special rule called 'Primarch of the Death Guard' that will give him a buff of sorts, possibly +1 to Disgustingly Resilient or something that makes him tankier than he appears right now.

I don't think they would reveal all the rules for him so he may have a few tricks up his sleeve yet.

 Frozocrone wrote:
There will probably be some special rule called 'Primarch of the Death Guard' that will give him a buff of sorts, possibly +1 to Disgustingly Resilient or something that makes him tankier than he appears right now.

I don't think they would reveal all the rules for him so he may have a few tricks up his sleeve yet.

Now if he got that as an aura affect...

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
There will probably be some special rule called 'Primarch of the Death Guard' that will give him a buff of sorts, possibly +1 to Disgustingly Resilient or something that makes him tankier than he appears right now.

I don't think they would reveal all the rules for him so he may have a few tricks up his sleeve yet.

Now if he got that as an aura affect...

Death Guard would be deadly and I might consider selling my small Thousand Sons army for Death Guard.

My main point is that people seem to be jumping the gun and yet it's clear (if the lack of weapon stats didn't tip people off) that not everything for Mortarion has been released.

Well... because we don't expect him to have 6 special rules. Because that's kinda silly. He's got death to emps, DR, the two different auras, and whatever confers his invulnerable save and is a psyker.

Yes he could have even more stuff on top of that, but we've probably seen the extent of his special abilities and they are very meh. Silence is the only real saving grace I can see.

So, what exactly is it that makes him worse than Magnus?

Magnus can do a lot of mortal wounds, sure, but that's to 1 unit. This aura that Mortarion has is effectively 7" Orbital bombardment each turn. D3 mortal wounds to every unit within range on a 4+ could be very deadly, especially as it's in addition to his spells and weapon attacks. The -1 toughness to all enemies within 7" is very powerful as well. That considerably ups the potential of all his men shooting at things close by. So his auras seem pretty epic to me.

Magnus has a spell to up his invuln, but what says the new DG discipline won't have a new spell which ups DR by 1? And warp time on Magnus smells like strong cheese to me and not a total necessity to make these units good. The 18W and T7 and 4++ and 5+++ seems quite tough to me. 12" movement is pretty fast also. And we haven't even seen his Weapon profiles yet or stratagems that may potentially be really powerful when paired with Mortarion.

So I guess, if we're going by what we've seen, he's not as good as Magnus, but that's because in the current stats we've been shown, Morty doesn't have weapons or accompanying stratagems or powers.

Poor mobility+being a a huge target+ only useful in melee range (even his auras are all in charge range)+not even that durable for his cost.

He isn't bad, but even if he has insane killing power I don't see much use for him. He costs a ton and will need more support to even be useful.

I think Mortarion wants to get stuck into close combat and stay there. He is probably happiest when he charges into the thick of enemy lines and has enough enemy models such that he is fighting every turn. When stuck in combat, he can't be targeted by shooting, and so that's the safest for him. Of course, there is suck a thing as falling back unfortunately ...

Mortarion can cause a heck of a lot of mortal wounds if he is charging into an Azreal or Gulliman parking lot. Of course, he will need to get there first, given he will be vulnerable to shooting while he moves up the board.

But he will almost certainly have DR, or maybe even an improved version of DR. And nurgle can heal. So, with the proper support, he can withstand a lot of ranged fire.

Don't forget that he isn't the only thing in a DG army. If you are gonna use up all of your ranged shooting on Mortarion, that means nothing else in the DG army is going to be shot at. In Rhinos, even the slow plague marines will be in combat by turn two.

I think everyone is jumping to conclusions. He has phosphex bombs and the nurglins with him also attack. We don't know what lantern and silence do. We don't know what stratagems we have, we don't know the powers he has access too. That is a lot of factors that can change him. To say he is bad based on a small amount of information is ignorant. Also, I think people forget that there is allying in this game which shores up weaknesses. gak you can ally with Nurgle and cast fleshy abundance. Honestly, I think Morty has about the same survivability that Magnus has. Magnus is a bit better, based on the information we have.

Why are people complaining about poor movement? He's got 12" by himself...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why are people complaining about poor movement? He's got 12" by himself...

Because apparently everything needs to move like Magnus. Which is a ridiculous expectation. I think we can all agree Magnus is a bit busted right now.

O'Shovah's Desciple wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why are people complaining about poor movement? He's got 12" by himself...

Because apparently everything needs to move like Magnus. Which is a ridiculous expectation. I think we can all agree Magnus is a bit busted right now.

Magnus dies with weight of fire easily...

Morty? With DR? Seems like he'll last longer than Magnus...

Maybe the brothers need to tag-team in the army. Magnus might last longer...

Arachnofiend wrote:The toughness debuff could potentially be pretty potent; it makes Blight Launchers and Flails of Corruption wound medium vehicles on 4's and MEQ's on 2's. Add in the plague weapon rule for reroll 1's and your plague marines are pretty lethal.

O'Shovah's Desciple wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why are people complaining about poor movement? He's got 12" by himself...

Because apparently everything needs to move like Magnus. Which is a ridiculous expectation. I think we can all agree Magnus is a bit busted right now.

These guys get it. That Toughness debuff will really make a difference combined with the Plague Weapon abilities, and moving 12" is pretty fast compared to the rest of the Death Guard lineup as it stands. Even Foetid Bloat Drones only move 10". Comparing Mortarion to Magnus is not a great idea because Magnus needs a visit from the nerf bat and will probably get one either when the TS codex drops or in Chapter Approved, if not sooner. I don't want Mortarion to be broken good; I want him to be playable, even competitive, but not like Magnus who is undercosted by at least 50 points.

Nevermind my page didn't refresh apparently...

Anyways I'm pretty pumped for Death guard. Being the first Chaos Cult Army Codex this edition means I'm starting a new army

 whembly wrote:

O'Shovah's Desciple wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why are people complaining about poor movement? He's got 12" by himself...

Because apparently everything needs to move like Magnus. Which is a ridiculous expectation. I think we can all agree Magnus is a bit busted right now.

Magnus dies with weight of fire easily...

Morty? With DR? Seems like he'll last longer than Magnus...

Maybe the brothers need to tag-team in the army. Magnus might last longer...

That is what I was thinking tbh. In a pure weight of fire game, yeah Morty wins for sure. Man taking Magnus and Morty together with like a LoC or something would be awesome! I think I will leave myself the ability to summon that way I can get what I need on the fly.

Has anyone else noticed something nice about the Mortarion model?

There are several pictures of him now, and his weapons seem to be switching hands. Some of them have the pistol in the right hand, some in the left.

These aren't just mirror images either, his armor stays looking the same. That means there must be a lefty and righty version of each of his weapons.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Has anyone else noticed something nice about the Mortarion model?

There are several pictures of him now, and his weapons seem to be switching hands. Some of them have the pistol in the right hand, some in the left.

These aren't just mirror images either, his armor stays looking the same. That means there must be a lefty and righty version of each of his weapons.

This was revealed to be exactly true just recently. You'll get 2 plasma guns poses and 2 scythe poses in the box.

Also, who is excited to actually run Morty, Magnus, Fulgrim and Angron at the same time??i sure as hell am.

I just hope c.c. isn't his only quality only to then still be completely outmatched by RG and his ridiculous sword at what, 5 power less or so? (Don't have the book on me)

Can't wait for the reveal but Im not too optimistic. Lets not forget RG is a fantastic force multiplier and gets his sick c.c. skills for almost no extra charge.

Could argue both RG and Magnus are undercosted but yeah, let's hope that Scythe really is a Primarch killer.
Maybe it shuts down opposing special rules in base to base. That'd really silence RG

Maybe his Scythe does Mortal Wounds for each hit. That'd be good.

Codex screen grabs should be this time next week. Can't wait.

 XT-1984 wrote:
Maybe his Scythe does Mortal Wounds for each hit. That'd be good.

Codex screen grabs should be this time next week. Can't wait.

Or maybe he heals a wound each time he kills a model with it

I'd imagine the scythe would have something like "instead of making the normal number attacks, Mortarian can make d3 attacks for every model in base contact with him".

Maybe the damage of each attack spills over, like the flails

He's awfully expensive. Given how overcosted DG have been historically, I'm not expecting him to be very playable :(

zerosignal wrote:
He's awfully expensive. Given how overcosted DG have been historically, I'm not expecting him to be very playable :(

What do you mean historically? They've always been on the top end of competitive CSM...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
He's awfully expensive. Given how overcosted DG have been historically, I'm not expecting him to be very playable :(

What do you mean historically? They've always been on the top end of competitive CSM...

I mean, considering the entire army was overcosted for the better part of two editions that's not saying much. Being top end of CSM competitive is kinda laughable as a statement meant to imply something has value.

That being said, I assume he means mostly in 8th because every unique DG unit was overcosted in the index, as well as most of the stuff we shared with the main army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

O'Shovah's Desciple wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why are people complaining about poor movement? He's got 12" by himself...

Because apparently everything needs to move like Magnus. Which is a ridiculous expectation. I think we can all agree Magnus is a bit busted right now.

Well, when you are an exclusively close combat focused model that contributes nothing of note outside charge/close combat range, cost a fourth of the armies value, have a degrading statline, and can't hide shield yourself with screening troops, you do need to.

Also, busted? The hasn't even appeared in any winning tournament lists Magnus? The not even really that competitive but at least is something people attempt to run him in tournaments, unlike pretty much everything else tied to CSM, Magnus? Even that's mostly because he has synergy with demons.

No Magnus is not busted. Magnus is not even close to busted. This claim is hilarious. Magnus is what a unit that costs 20% of your points should do.

SilverAlien wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
He's awfully expensive. Given how overcosted DG have been historically, I'm not expecting him to be very playable :(

What do you mean historically? They've always been on the top end of competitive CSM...

I mean, considering the entire army was overcosted for the better part of two editions that's not saying much. Being top end of CSM competitive is kinda laughable as a statement meant to imply something has value.

That being said, I assume he means mostly in 8th because every unique DG unit was overcosted in the index, as well as most of the stuff we shared with the main army.

Admittedly, the CSM Codizes from 4th and 6th edition weren't great, but Slayer Fan is right in stating that many things at least became okay when having the Mark of Nurgle, plague Marines, Bikers, spawn to name a few. After Traitor Legions even more so.
Applying the term "historically" to 8th edition only is ridiculous.

Tomorrow is the DG stratagem info right?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Tomorrow is the DG stratagem info right?

Yep, plus warlord traits and psychic powers I think.

Neronoxx wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Has anyone else noticed something nice about the Mortarion model?

There are several pictures of him now, and his weapons seem to be switching hands. Some of them have the pistol in the right hand, some in the left.

These aren't just mirror images either, his armor stays looking the same. That means there must be a lefty and righty version of each of his weapons.

This was revealed to be exactly true just recently. You'll get 2 plasma guns poses and 2 scythe poses in the box.

Also, who is excited to actually run Morty, Magnus, Fulgrim and Angron at the same time??i sure as hell am.

So that is why hes holding silence so stupidly, hes holding it like a gun, you dont get 2 of each weapon, you just change hilt.

FudgeDumper wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Has anyone else noticed something nice about the Mortarion model?

There are several pictures of him now, and his weapons seem to be switching hands. Some of them have the pistol in the right hand, some in the left.

These aren't just mirror images either, his armor stays looking the same. That means there must be a lefty and righty version of each of his weapons.

This was revealed to be exactly true just recently. You'll get 2 plasma guns poses and 2 scythe poses in the box.

Also, who is excited to actually run Morty, Magnus, Fulgrim and Angron at the same time??i sure as hell am.

So that is why hes holding silence so stupidly, hes holding it like a gun, you dont get 2 of each weapon, you just change hilt.

If you look at the two configurations, they are clearly different arms/hands. Even Silence looks different in the two poses.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
He's awfully expensive. Given how overcosted DG have been historically, I'm not expecting him to be very playable :(

What do you mean historically? They've always been on the top end of competitive CSM...

I mean, considering the entire army was overcosted for the better part of two editions that's not saying much. Being top end of CSM competitive is kinda laughable as a statement meant to imply something has value.

That being said, I assume he means mostly in 8th because every unique DG unit was overcosted in the index, as well as most of the stuff we shared with the main army.

Admittedly, the CSM Codizes from 4th and 6th edition weren't great, but Slayer Fan is right in stating that many things at least became okay when having the Mark of Nurgle, plague Marines, Bikers, spawn to name a few. After Traitor Legions even more so.
Applying the term "historically" to 8th edition only is ridiculous.

Glad you could get to responding before I could.

For those thinking that he is going to die to mass lascannons and missile launchers - we haven't seen the rest of the Codex yet. We haven't seen Warlord Traits, Strategems - heck, he might be able to pass wounds to nearby Deathshroud Terminators. Let's not go overboard on one out-of-context statline.

 puma713 wrote:
For those thinking that he is going to die to mass lascannons and missile launchers - we haven't seen the rest of the Codex yet. We haven't seen Warlord Traits, Strategems - heck, he might be able to pass wounds to nearby Deathshroud Terminators. Let's not go overboard on one out-of-context statline.

Yes, if deathguard have the ability to infiltrate like alpha legion and raven guard that might help, but that's unlikely. Yes if his warlord trait is really good it might help. If death shroud terminators can soak wounds... that probably won't help because there is a limit to how much you can pour into an already pricey unit trying to make it work.

There are things that could make him decent... but there is absolutely nothing to be excited over either. Everything they showed us indicates he was garbage and should be laughed at.

We can only discuss what we see. What we saw was garbage. What's worse, this was an attempt to get us excited about how cool he was, and that was the best they could manage. That doesn't bode well. Warning signs are a thing, extrapolation is a thing, it's quite likely morty is a display piece it's very good to discuss this because some people might've been planning to preorder him Saturday and pointing out he quite possibly won't be worth using might mean they'll want to hold off.

SilverAlien wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
For those thinking that he is going to die to mass lascannons and missile launchers - we haven't seen the rest of the Codex yet. We haven't seen Warlord Traits, Strategems - heck, he might be able to pass wounds to nearby Deathshroud Terminators. Let's not go overboard on one out-of-context statline.

Yes, if deathguard have the ability to infiltrate like alpha legion and raven guard that might help, but that's unlikely. Yes if his warlord trait is really good it might help. If death shroud terminators can soak wounds... that probably won't help because there is a limit to how much you can pour into an already pricey unit trying to make it work.

There are things that could make him decent... but there is absolutely nothing to be excited over either. Everything they showed us indicates he was garbage and should be laughed at.

We can only discuss what we see. What we saw was garbage. What's worse, this was an attempt to get us excited about how cool he was, and that was the best they could manage. That doesn't bode well. Warning signs are a thing, extrapolation is a thing, it's quite likely morty is a display piece it's very good to discuss this because some people might've been planning to preorder him Saturday and pointing out he quite possibly won't be worth using might mean they'll want to hold off.

Would you like some pepper with that lethal dose of salt?
Feel free to discuss half of what makes a unit good like its the end of the world.

Except what we saw wasn't garbage and we don't even have the full context yet.

Ah yes, pointing out how bad a unit looks is clearly the end of the world. The most awful thing I've said was "if you were going to preorder him for his presumed gameplay value, probably wait."

Also, his rough price, stat line and the overwhelming majority, if not totality, of his special abilities is at least 3/4ths of the unit. We are missing weapons and maybe a single additional special rule.

What do you want me to say? "Hey, everything we saw was extremely underwhelming and GW has been overpricing DG stuff all edition, but I'm sure he be great despite that with no evidence?" I'm sorry if I'm interrupting the unwarranted hype train, but all they showed us were fairly bad aura abilities and an unimpressive stat line for his price. We can either not discuss the article/teaser at all, or we can talk about how bad morty looks. Because nothing in it indicated morty was in anyway useful, good, or worth using.

SilverAlien wrote:
I'm sorry if I'm interrupting the unwarranted hype train

Must have missed that amongst the sea of 'looks terrible'. The hype train runs about as far as the 'wait and see, maybe there's something else that will improve him' stop. Barely gets a rhythm going. Not even one blow of its horn.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except what we saw wasn't garbage and we don't even have the full context yet.

He has a worse statline than Magnus, costs more, and has exceptionally unimpressive aura abilities. I'm not sure how you can say what we saw wasn't garbage. You can say "maybe he has some great things they didn't mention that might make him worth using" and I agree that's possible albeit unlikely imo. But what they showed us was exceptionally unimpressive.

SilverAlien wrote:
Ah yes, pointing out how bad a unit looks is clearly the end of the world. The most awful thing I've said was "if you were going to preorder him for his presumed gameplay value, probably wait."

Also, his rough price, stat line and the overwhelming majority, if not totality, of his special abilities is at least 3/4ths of the unit. We are missing weapons and maybe a single additional special rule.

What do you want me to say? "Hey, everything we saw was extremely underwhelming and GW has been overpricing DG stuff all edition, but I'm sure he be great despite that with no evidence?" I'm sorry if I'm interrupting the unwarranted hype train, but all they showed us were fairly bad aura abilities and an unimpressive stat line for his price. We can either not discuss the article/teaser at all, or we can talk about how bad morty looks. Because nothing in it indicated morty was in anyway useful, good, or worth using.

It isn't the end of the world when it's correct. The issue is you're not correct. At all.

Yeah Jesus, the salt is real haha. Magnus is broken as he is. So Mortarion being 50 extra points = utter garbage? Mortarion looks good from what they've shown. He just doesn't look broken OP yet. But we haven't seen his weapons and all that other stuff like everyone else is saying.
Maybe we should chill and wait to see the full Dex before jumping to the conclusion that there is nothing to be excited for and that Morty is just for show.


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SilverAlien wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except what we saw wasn't garbage and we don't even have the full context yet.

He has a worse statline than Magnus, costs more, and has exceptionally unimpressive aura abilities. I'm not sure how you can say what we saw wasn't garbage. You can say "maybe he has some great things they didn't mention that might make him worth using" and I agree that's possible albeit unlikely imo. But what they showed us was exceptionally unimpressive.

Exceptionally unimpressive auras...? You're saying -1 to every unit's toughness within 7" is unimpressive? That 7" Orbital bombardment every turn is unimpressive? Man, what units are you using, because I'm clearly missing out

SilverAlien wrote:

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Oh right we did get a power cost. So that'd put him around 450-500 points roughly. That's... well silence better be absolutely amazing.

Im sure he will be pretty good even for his astronomical high point cost, I'm more worried about not being able to field anything else in the army if you take him. Death Guard units in general are already so expensive im not sure how you are supposed to field a 24 power model

Im not sure why you would assume that? Unless his wargear is amazing he won't even be as good as Magnus judging from what we've seen, despite costing more. Even then he's a massive target with mediocre durability, slow, can't hide behind troops, and his only redeeming features are tied into being very close to the enemy/melee. Maybe he gets his little teleport ability from HH, that might help.

Honestly though, I really wouldn't be worried about how you'd fit him into your army list right now. I have a feeling it'll be a non issue.

You mean more durable than Magnus right? So if people have problems killing Magnus they will have more killing Morty.

Lets not forget that all Manreaper scythes are S+3 but Silence is HUGE and Morty looks to have a melta pistol on steroids that he calls Lantern. OH and Nurglings that also provide more CC attacks.


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 Horus Luperkermit wrote:

broxus wrote:
Mortarion is considered a Lord of War choice and not a HQs. Honestly with his 3+ save I don't think he will survive long on the table.

He's about as tanky as Magnus

Also more expensive, slower base speed and can't use warp time, and less useful outside of melee due to no friendly aura and presumably weaker psychic powers.

I know we all want to be excited, but it's good to keep things in perspective. What they showed us was bad, getting excited right now is just begging to be disappointed later.

More tankier than Magnus.

3+/4++/5+++ and we have not seen his Primarch power which I suspect is Rerolls of 1's for hits and Disgustingly Resilient.

From there he is actually stronger than Magnus in CC because his aura works on EVERYTHING! You got a Predator in 7" well it is T6 atm. Not to mention that the "Maybe mini smite" ability happens EVERY fight phase and not just your own. . .

As for Lascannons, you need just about 24 of those supported by a full reroll to hit character just to take this guy down.

Warptime can get gotten through the access of a Demon Prince with wings or a sorcerer which I believe can have a jetpack.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Yeah Jesus, the salt is real haha. Magnus is broken as he is. So Mortarion being 50 extra points = utter garbage? Mortarion looks good from what they've shown. He just doesn't look broken OP yet. But we haven't seen his weapons and all that other stuff like everyone else is saying.
Maybe we should chill and wait to see the full Dex before jumping to the conclusion that there is nothing to be excited for and that Morty is just for show.

Ah yeah, Magnus who can't even reliably make it into winning tournament lists is totally broken. C'mon now.

Also, how does he look good? His statline is literally just a worse Magnus, his auras are mediocre and short ranged, the only possible thing that's "good" is confirming he got DR so at least he is a bit more durable but considering how exposed he is and how relatively slow that's not even selling me. This isn't me being salty, I just a legitimately bad looking unit and people falling over themselves to try and excuse it.

What exactly are you people seeing of value?

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 Tiberius501 wrote:
Exceptionally unimpressive auras...? You're saying -1 to every unit's toughness within 7" is unimpressive? That 7" Orbital bombardment every turn is unimpressive? Man, what units are you using, because I'm clearly missing out

Yes, those are extremely unimpressive auras. I mean, have you seen what just rerolling ones to hit and wound do to the damage potential of some units carefully arranged around them? God forbid we bring up actually impressive auras like Robby G or the chapter masters. -1 to toughness won't even change the wound roll half the time, and the mortal wound averages out to a single mortal wound to every unit in his 7" inch range... if he has his full statline which again isn't all that likely due to the enemy having at least a turn of shooting on him due to again, not being fast enough to get in charge range turn one.

How about you put some math on the board. For the Auras, for the accompanying army, and give us a situation where he might be good.

That could possibly help us see your point of view. As it stand, I can't see him being bad as either a bullet sponge or a force multiplier, but what do I know. I'm not a tourney player, and I play Tyranids. Put those rules on a big bug chasis and I would be salivating.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Yeah Jesus, the salt is real haha. Magnus is broken as he is. So Mortarion being 50 extra points = utter garbage? Mortarion looks good from what they've shown. He just doesn't look broken OP yet. But we haven't seen his weapons and all that other stuff like everyone else is saying.
Maybe we should chill and wait to see the full Dex before jumping to the conclusion that there is nothing to be excited for and that Morty is just for show.

Ah yeah, Magnus who can't even reliably make it into winning tournament lists is totally broken. C'mon now.

Also, how does he look good? His statline is literally just a worse Magnus, his auras are mediocre and short ranged, the only possible thing that's "good" is confirming he got DR so at least he is a bit more durable but considering how exposed he is and how relatively slow that's not even selling me. This isn't me being salty, I just a legitimately bad looking unit and people falling over themselves to try and excuse it.

What exactly are you people seeing of value?

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 Tiberius501 wrote:
Exceptionally unimpressive auras...? You're saying -1 to every unit's toughness within 7" is unimpressive? That 7" Orbital bombardment every turn is unimpressive? Man, what units are you using, because I'm clearly missing out

Yes, those are extremely unimpressive auras. I mean, have you seen what just rerolling ones to hit and wound do to the damage potential of some units carefully arranged around them? God forbid we bring up actually impressive auras like Robby G or the chapter masters. -1 to toughness won't even change the wound roll half the time, and the mortal wound averages out to a single mortal wound to every unit in his 7" inch range... if he has his full statline which again isn't all that likely due to the enemy having at least a turn of shooting on him due to again, not being fast enough to get in charge range turn one.

So statline. 1 less attack (has free nurglings and what looks to be a Pistol so more shooting than Magnus does) and 4 inches less of movement. For a slow and steady army this makes sens.

Ummmm -1T changes things VASTLY!

Suddenly, Marines are being wounded by bolters on a 3+ instead of a 4, Tau, Guard, Eldar, all on 2+. Suddenly Blight Launchers wound marines on a 2+. You got a T6 vehicle? Welp, T5 now. That T7vehicle is now T6, why hello triple Plasma Guns in a 5 man Plague Marine Squad. Nice to see you there.

-1T is HUGE. Suddenly you are getting an extra 16% wound ratio and with things like Blight Launchers which are Plague Weapons, BOOM would you look at at those rerolls of 1's for wounds.

Lets look at the current Bloat Drone. Moves 10, is S6 and has a 9" Flamer range. Welp, with Morty, you double out Marines with your free hits and get to reroll 1's to wound so lots of wounds there, then you have them wounding T7 vehicles on 4's instead of 5's.

Sure, for things that don't double you may face an issue but hell, even plasma guns can overcharge now and wound a T5 model on 2's with morty nearby. THEN that same unit, any characters, and more are slapped in the face with a potential d3 MW's!

Sorry but the mathematical and tactical advantage Morty provides is actually a scary prospect when played correctly.

 Carnikang wrote:
How about you put some math on the board. For the Auras, for the accompanying army, and give us a situation where he might be good.

That could possibly help us see your point of view. As it stand, I can't see him being bad as either a bullet sponge or a force multiplier, but what do I know. I'm not a tourney player, and I play Tyranids. Put those rules on a big bug chasis and I would be salivating.

Okay, just a quick example. -1 toughness is a conditional +1 to the wound roll and nothing else this edition. It won't even do that but half the time, due to toughness thresholds having large gaps where rolls don't change.

Compare that to say... rerolling ones to wound. On a unit wounding on a 3+, rerolling ones to wound wound mean 78% wound rate, while going up to a 2+ is an 83% wound rate. If you were wounding on a 4+, rerolling ones is 58% wound rate while going to a 3+ is 66%. On a 5+ it'd be 38% and 50% respectively.

Now, we again consider the limitations of his aura. Unlike say a space marine LT who grants rerolls to any unit in range from turn one, morty has to get close to the enemy, meaning it won't be online till turn 2 at the earliest. Furthermore, it means you can only target enemies in morty's charge range, meaning there is a very real possibility you may run out of targets fairly quickly, particularly as the enemy removes casualties closest to him, which also impedes his ability to get into melee further. Finally, the aura again may simply not matter, if you use lascannons as your anti tank for example it'll never really matter there, heavy bolters would benefit vs toughness 3 but not 4 infantry, etc.

So no, given the manifest limitations of the aura and the general lack of impact it will have by comparison to others, I don't think it's very good. I feel the comparison to a generic space marine LT is fairly apt, it'll be about that level of usefulness.

As for the mortal wound aura, that's a single mortal wound to units in range on average with morty at full health. Given that most armies which cluster close enough for the aura to hit multiple units also tend to be high in screening chaff, this again is unlikely to have a considerable impact. It's inability to target key units is why it isn't nearly as good as say an orbital strike.

Edit: Yes if you cherry pick times when the aura will help, don't compare it to other auras, and ignore all the ways debuffing enemy toughness creates problems that buffing your own units doesn't, the aura looks much better. I mean, talking about using the aura to debuff tanks for the blight launcher is silly. What, morty is in charge range of multiple tanks because you've already bypassed your enemy's defenses? You've already effectively done the hard part, and you've got a brutal monster in charge range. Slightly improving your ability to wound them at range is kinda... not a priority? You probably would have better things to shoot at if you've managed to neutralize their defenses, unless you were just mopping up.

I'm not saying it's useless, but it's a very niche ability that simply won't matter that often.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Carnikang wrote:
How about you put some math on the board. For the Auras, for the accompanying army, and give us a situation where he might be good.

That could possibly help us see your point of view. As it stand, I can't see him being bad as either a bullet sponge or a force multiplier, but what do I know. I'm not a tourney player, and I play Tyranids. Put those rules on a big bug chasis and I would be salivating.

Okay, just a quick example. -1 toughness is a conditional +1 to the wound roll and nothing else this edition. It won't even do that but half the time, due to toughness thresholds having large gaps where rolls don't change.

Compare that to say... rerolling ones to wound. On a unit wounding on a 3+, rerolling ones to wound wound mean 78% wound rate, while going up to a 2+ is an 83% wound rate. If you were wounding on a 4+, rerolling ones is 58% wound rate while going to a 3+ is 66%. On a 5+ it'd be 38% and 50% respectively.

Now, we again consider the limitations of his aura. Unlike say a space marine LT who grants rerolls to any unit in range from turn one, morty has to get close to the enemy, meaning it won't be online till turn 2 at the earliest. Furthermore, it means you can only target enemies in morty's charge range, meaning there is a very real possibility you may run out of targets fairly quickly, particularly as the enemy removes casualties closest to him, which also impedes his ability to get into melee further. Finally, the aura again may simply not matter, if you use lascannons as your anti tank for example it'll never really matter there, heavy bolters would benefit vs toughness 3 but not 4 infantry, etc.

So no, given the manifest limitations of the aura and the general lack of impact it will have by comparison to others, I don't think it's very good. I feel the comparison to a generic space marine LT is fairly apt, it'll be about that level of usefulness.

As for the mortal wound aura, that's a single mortal wound to units in range on average with morty at full health. Given that most armies which cluster close enough for the aura to hit multiple units also tend to be high in screening chaff, this again is unlikely to have a considerable impact. It's inability to target key units is why it isn't nearly as good as say an orbital strike.

Edit: Yes if you cherry pick times when the aura will help, don't compare it to other auras, and ignore all the ways debuffing enemy toughness creates problems that buffing your own units doesn't, the aura looks much better. I mean, talking about using the aura to debuff tanks for the blight launcher is silly. What, morty is in charge range of multiple tanks because you've already bypassed your enemy's defenses? You've already effectively done the hard part, and you've got a brutal monster in charge range. Slightly improving your ability to wound them at range is kinda... not a priority? You probably would have better things to shoot at if you've managed to neutralize their defenses, unless you were just mopping up.

I'm not saying it's useless, but it's a very niche ability that simply won't matter that often.

But you're using weapons in your example that DG don't use often. Heavy bolters and lascannons aren't really in our roster all that much. We have bolters, Blight launchers, plasma guns, etc, all of which benefit from that -1 toughness aura immensely. Not to mention, even lowly pox walkers without Typhus around would be getting a needed boost in melee. Turning marines into guardsmen and guardsmen into grots is a big deal.

His mortal wound aura does 2 mortal wounds on average. If he's facing off against a current strong list, often built around close proximity auras, he'll be next to a good batch of HQ's and units that your opponent wants to give said auras. So that'll be a fair few units within range once he's in melee. I'd say it's not too hard to squeeze four units in that aura. So he'd kill an extra model or two from a couple of squads or weaken a couple of HQ's when normally they're hard to target. Put that in both players' fight phases and you've just possibly killed a lesser HQ or two without even swinging Silence within a turn from both players. The rest of that blob just got carved up by the teleporting group of Deathshroud termies wounding them all on 2's now, even if they only have S7 weapons, like Typhus.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Carnikang wrote:

Edit: Yes if you cherry pick times when the aura will help, don't compare it to other auras, and ignore all the ways debuffing enemy toughness creates problems that buffing your own units doesn't, the aura looks much better. I mean, talking about using the aura to debuff tanks for the blight launcher is silly. What, morty is in charge range of multiple tanks because you've already bypassed your enemy's defenses? You've already effectively done the hard part, and you've got a brutal monster in charge range. Slightly improving your ability to wound them at range is kinda... not a priority? You probably would have better things to shoot at if you've managed to neutralize their defenses, unless you were just mopping up.

I'm not saying it's useless, but it's a very niche ability that simply won't matter that often.

I get the argument and it is valid but only from a small tactical sense.

Deployment in this edition has units in charge range T1. There are also many players that castle up. Removing casualties is one thing sure but it may or may not happen depending on how deep in you are to that squad.

Using the ability to debuff tanks to gain more favorable wound rolls in not silly. It is actually a good use if that is what you have to work with. Want bolters to wound on 5's vs 6's against a Knight? Still not a great use but if that is what you are facing?

Simply put, the aura provides a great degree of flexibility and allows a player to have options. Yes it is limited by range but its not horrible.

You brought up a Space Marine LT. Death Guard gets those too through Chaos Lords. 70ish points and boom, rerolls to 1's for hits and Plague weapon is rerolls to wounds of 1's. There are options and so far the Death Guard are more reliant on Character Aura's than most armies I have seen.

That "niche" ability will likely matter more than you think. It is an IMMEDIATE tactical consideration by the opponent. They have to deal with it or suddenly they could be dealing with units suffering FAR greater casualties than they should of normally. Then we add in Gift of Contagion and boom we could be seeing T2 Space Marines. How would you like bolters to wound on a 2+ or the new Plague Spewers to autohit, wound on a 2+ and reroll failed wound rolls of a 1?

In a vacuum, Morty's abilities are sort of Niche, in actuality? less so.