Or bubble wrap important units in 20-man Poxwalker units for 100 pts. a pop, supported by the auras and powers from all of our characters. You have 120 conscripts? I have 120 poxwalkers!
Well, take a unit like deathshroud terminators who likely won't be able to do anything out of deepstrike due to short range weapons and a really long charge distance. Should we load them up in a land raider costing like 250-300 points so they can get into combat turn 2 or 3... or grab an allied terminator sorcerer with warptime for 150 to deepstrike with them, 120 if you use a jump pack sorcerer.
As for poxwalkers well... Assuming poxwalkers go down to 5 ppm that's still 1 ppm model than normal guard infantry, but you get fearless without needing outside support, and DR instead of abnormal armor save so a bit better vs weapons with AP, plus minor disadvantages (5+ hit, slower move, no ranged weapons). So all in all they probably aren't too far apart. But not really conscript level durability.
Again, not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but we should try to remember DG is probably going to be in a rough spot to start with.
i also dont recall them not being able to take rhinos (i might be wrong)
unless you are facing against ST5+ spam up the wazoo you would do better than most foot slogers.
You can certainly take Rhinos.
And Land Raiders.
Or bubble wrap important units in 20-man Poxwalker units for 100 pts. a pop, supported by the auras and powers from all of our characters. You have 120 conscripts? I have 120 poxwalkers!
I like the bubble wrap idea it's just that Poxwalkers are ridiculously slow.
I saw someone discussing putting Poxwalkers in a Rhino and I might try it some time...
Again, not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but we should try to remember DG is probably going to be in a rough spot to start with.
I can't agree with this, since I haven't seen 90% of the Codex yet. We can theorycraft all day long, but none of it amounts to much until we have unit rules, point values and other details that have not yet been released.
As far as using a bunch of pox walkers as a screen, I do exactly that and Blightbringers make it viable. If they're not in range to charge then advance them. The Blight bringer helps with this, our fastest infantry (DG Specific) has a 5" move I think. So no matter what you get on their roll, pox walkers will move minimum 5" if they advance an I think that keeps them far enough up to screen. As long as your not planning on charging them
Kharne the Befriender wrote: As far as using a bunch of pox walkers as a screen, I do exactly that and Blightbringers make it viable. If they're not in range to charge then advance them. The Blight bringer helps with this, our fastest infantry (DG Specific) has a 5" move I think. So no matter what you get on their roll, pox walkers will move minimum 5" if they advance an I think that keeps them far enough up to screen. As long as your not planning on charging them
Not gonna lie i fought against a butt load of pox walkers with a typhus thing once
T4 cheap unit spam is really really annoying.
(truth be told i didnt really check the book at the time dunno if this works or not (pretty sure it does thematically makes sense ish))
Kharne the Befriender wrote: As far as using a bunch of pox walkers as a screen, I do exactly that and Blightbringers make it viable. If they're not in range to charge then advance them. The Blight bringer helps with this, our fastest infantry (DG Specific) has a 5" move I think. So no matter what you get on their roll, pox walkers will move minimum 5" if they advance an I think that keeps them far enough up to screen. As long as your not planning on charging them
Not gonna lie i fought against a butt load of pox walkers with a typhus thing once
T4 cheap unit spam is really really annoying.
(truth be told i didnt really check the book at the time dunno if this works or not (pretty sure it does thematically makes sense ish))
Yeah its both thematic and useful. I usually take all 40 of mine, 1x20 man unit to screen and 2x10 man units camp an objective with a Plague Marine squad so also kind of screening against deepstrike
Kharne the Befriender wrote: As far as using a bunch of pox walkers as a screen, I do exactly that and Blightbringers make it viable. If they're not in range to charge then advance them. The Blight bringer helps with this, our fastest infantry (DG Specific) has a 5" move I think. So no matter what you get on their roll, pox walkers will move minimum 5" if they advance an I think that keeps them far enough up to screen. As long as your not planning on charging them
Not gonna lie i fought against a butt load of pox walkers with a typhus thing once
T4 cheap unit spam is really really annoying.
(truth be told i didnt really check the book at the time dunno if this works or not (pretty sure it does thematically makes sense ish))
Yeah its both thematic and useful. I usually take all 40 of mine, 1x20 man unit to screen and 2x10 man units camp an objective with a Plague Marine squad so also kind of screening against deepstrike
I think Poxwalker screens will be even more useful with Cloud of Flies. I plan to use at least 40, but probably 60. I'd really like to eek out a Brigade detachment, but we'll see. I'm also really interested to see how this apothecary model affects us. If Poxwalkers get to reroll DR, that makes them even more attractive.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: As far as using a bunch of pox walkers as a screen, I do exactly that and Blightbringers make it viable. If they're not in range to charge then advance them. The Blight bringer helps with this, our fastest infantry (DG Specific) has a 5" move I think. So no matter what you get on their roll, pox walkers will move minimum 5" if they advance an I think that keeps them far enough up to screen. As long as your not planning on charging them
Not gonna lie i fought against a butt load of pox walkers with a typhus thing once
T4 cheap unit spam is really really annoying.
(truth be told i didnt really check the book at the time dunno if this works or not (pretty sure it does thematically makes sense ish))
Yeah its both thematic and useful. I usually take all 40 of mine, 1x20 man unit to screen and 2x10 man units camp an objective with a Plague Marine squad so also kind of screening against deepstrike
I think Poxwalker screens will be even more useful with Cloud of Flies. I plan to use at least 40, but probably 60. I'd really like to eek out a Brigade detachment, but we'll see. I'm also really interested to see how this apothecary model affects us. If Poxwalkers get to reroll DR, that makes them even more attractive.
I'm already planning a sort of Plaguestar(TM) using a squad of 20 pox walkers screening a 10 man plague marine unit with melee weapons, with a Blightbringer, Plaguecaster, and any other characters that would be useful. If I feel that the pox walkers won't last long ill deep strike a terminator unit in front of them to give my enemy a different target and soften them up
Man, I am extremely eager to see what the Death Guard army-wide traits are, which units get FNP, and what the other psychic powers are. I hope they don't drag out how late into the morning (US time) they put the preview article up.
Again, not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but we should try to remember DG is probably going to be in a rough spot to start with.
I can't agree with this, since I haven't seen 90% of the Codex yet. We can theorycraft all day long, but none of it amounts to much until we have unit rules, point values and other details that have not yet been released.
I'll be honest, there are some pretty clear patterns in the way they've balanced units, it's not hard to predict a lot of what you mentioned considering half our units are shared with CSM. Nor will people be anymore willing to accept it even when the codex is out, people will still plug their ears just like they did with the index.
Anyway, sometimes all you need is just one amazing unit and it makes all the difference. Like basically in early 7th edition, helldrake was that one amazing unit that made CSM good. So, maybe those new plague bleacher tanks are amazing. Or maybe the new DG terminators are amazing. We shall wait and see!
Eldenfirefly wrote: Anyway, sometimes all you need is just one amazing unit and it makes all the difference. Like basically in early 7th edition, helldrake was that one amazing unit that made CSM good. So, maybe those new plague bleacher tanks are amazing. Or maybe the new DG terminators are amazing. We shall wait and see!
So what your saying is that we might end up with only a few good units, and we should just accept that and play the same list over and over. Sounds like shilling but okay.
FudgeDumper: This are the same bowels as the plaguebearer has in the front of the picture. But if you mean something different, I may have bad news for you.
Now I´m really happy, that I got the acolytes from "The Others: 7 Sins" as alternative poxwalkers and hope that they can get some buffs.
Virules wrote: Man, I am extremely eager to see what the Death Guard army-wide traits are, which units get FNP, and what the other psychic powers are. I hope they don't drag out how late into the morning (US time) they put the preview article up.
I am as well I for one like what I see so far. It will be nice to be able to fill out my army with more than what the Index had. But I think I will be holding on to my wallet until I get a look at the codex.
Think that Forgeworld guy is an auto include. Necrosis the Undying. Poxwalkers can reroll 1s on DR and he can dispel 3 times a turn and cast 2 spells for 120 pts. Pretty amazing value. Use the bellringer him and screen walkers up using cloud of flies on morty to get him into aura range without being killed
I'm actually kinda curious what info we will get. I doubt they show us all three of the new psychic powers, and "special rules" is kinda vague. Hopefully we will see our chapter tactic at least.
They better not dump a load of stuff we already know, like talking about the plague weapon rule or DR.
str00dles1 wrote: Think that Forgeworld guy is an auto include. Necrosis the Undying. Poxwalkers can reroll 1s on DR and he can dispel 3 times a turn and cast 2 spells for 120 pts. Pretty amazing value. Use the bellringer him and screen walkers up using cloud of flies on morty to get him into aura range without being killed
Cloud of Flies can only be used on Infantry units, so using it on Morty is probably out. He can be targeted by Miasma of Pestilence, though, for a -1 to hit him.
I'm actually kinda curious what info we will get. I doubt they show us all three of the new psychic powers, and "special rules" is kinda vague. Hopefully we will see our chapter tactic at least.
They better not dump a load of stuff we already know, like talking about the plague weapon rule or DR.
I'm sure they will repeat at least some stuff. Keep in mind most people aren't consuming every bit of news on Death Guard that many of us are. There has to be something in there for folks who are just casually following along or who are entirely new.
Fair enough. I'm just hoping we get some actual juicy stuff today.
But yeah, honestly I've been surprised how many people looking forward to DG weren't even aware of the new PM stuff in the CSM codex. I suppose a lot of them really did plan to drop their generic CSM units going forward and didn't get the book.
Vash108 wrote: I doubled up Necrosis and Typhus for Poxwalker goodness. They were really darn tanky.
I got the Necrosius model recently and I've been considering using it but I really don't want to buy the whole Foreworld Index for just that one unit...
I guess the only solution is to buy more Forgeworld stuff...
SilverAlien wrote: Fair enough. I'm just hoping we get some actual juicy stuff today.
But yeah, honestly I've been surprised how many people looking forward to DG weren't even aware of the new PM stuff in the CSM codex. I suppose a lot of them really did plan to drop their generic CSM units going forward and didn't get the book.
Quite possible, I've seen so many people just say Plague Knives, Blight Launcher, and Plague Swords are the only plague weapons and that's just.. quite wrong given that they added like 10+ new options to Plague Marines.
yup, my chaos collection (marines/daemons) has always been mono-nurgle...so, from my perspective, knowing a death guard codex is imminent, why bother with the cover-all CSM dex?
I now have a ton of CSM units that cant be used with DG any more so I'm trying to figure out what I should do with them. I got the CSM codex to try and figure that out but I'm still no closer than before.
hmm...that is a point. I also have a few things that are no longer usable in a proper death guard army...I guess I could just hold onto them, pick up the CSM dex at some point, and start some other small CSM army...I have been tempted by night lords several times in the past, if only because I like how they look
Vash108 wrote: I doubled up Necrosis and Typhus for Poxwalker goodness. They were really darn tanky.
I got the Necrosius model recently and I've been considering using it but I really don't want to buy the whole Foreworld Index for just that one unit...
I guess the only solution is to buy more Forgeworld stuff...
I think Battlescribe may be able to help you with that.
Yeah that's the thing, mono nurgle armies pre 8th used bikers fairly heavily and likely had at least some havocs, raptors, obliterators, daemon engines, vindicators or heldrakes.
Honestly, considering I'm also planning to purchase a lot of new PMs to take advantage of the new options and because I prefer how they look, it's more accurate to say this is a brand new army with a couple of carry over units than a continuation of my previous army.
Things I will use from my old DG/nurgle collection: some PM, some HQ, predators, terminators, helbrutes and cultists. Oh and spawn I guess
Things I will likely add: new PM, poxwalkers, HQs/elite, deathshroud, maybe "normal" terminators depending on loadout, bloat flies, and the tank. Possibly even more if we haven't seen it all yet.
That's as much new stuff as old stuff, eventually at least. Considering how many models fall under the header of new character, probably a bit heavier in the new.
They're all still chaos space marines so anything with <Legion> can be Death Guard. I don't understand the importance of a specific unit being IN the new book. It's all the same thing since Deathguard is a subset of CSM just like Thousand Sons.
Kirasu wrote: They're all still chaos space marines so anything with <Legion> can be Death Guard. I don't understand the importance of a specific unit being IN the new book. It's all the same thing since Deathguard is a subset of CSM just like Thousand Sons.
No they cannot. The index and codex are both very explicit about the fact DG and tsons cannot be used to fill in <legion> on every unit. The index provides lists of units you can use it for, the CSM codex just says you can't use those keywords with the book.
You cannot have DG bikers, heldrakes, raptors, etc. It's made very clear that's not allowed.
Kirasu wrote: They're all still chaos space marines so anything with <Legion> can be Death Guard. I don't understand the importance of a specific unit being IN the new book. It's all the same thing since Deathguard is a subset of CSM just like Thousand Sons.
No they cannot. The index and codex are both very explicit about the fact DG and tsons cannot be used to fill in <legion> on every unit. The index provides lists of units you can use it for, the CSM codex just says you can't use those keywords with the book.
You cannot have DG bikers, heldrakes, raptors, etc. It's made very clear that's not allowed.
This is correct. In the Index there is a list of all the units DG can take and many are left out.
Kirasu wrote: They're all still chaos space marines so anything with <Legion> can be Death Guard. I don't understand the importance of a specific unit being IN the new book. It's all the same thing since Deathguard is a subset of CSM just like Thousand Sons.
No they cannot. The index and codex are both very explicit about the fact DG and tsons cannot be used to fill in <legion> on every unit. The index provides lists of units you can use it for, the CSM codex just says you can't use those keywords with the book.
You cannot have DG bikers, heldrakes, raptors, etc. It's made very clear that's not allowed.
Yeah nevermind, you're right. Forgot how incredibly restrictive TS and DG are for no reason compared to every other legion.
Kirasu wrote: Yet "make it more fluffy" doesnt apply to the other 7 legions. Just the ones with separate books they want to sell you :p
Honestly I would not be shocked if we saw World Eaters and Emperor's Children get the same treatment before 8th edition is retired. They have already set it up so that they can take their respective "fluff" units as troop choices instead of elites. And they gave them their own Legion traits and Relics in the CSM book.
I'm not sure it will happen any time soon, but I bet it happens at some point.
The reason it's more restrictive is to push models...really. You can leave it up to the players to make it fluffy (as many will), but why encourage someone to buy one squad of plague marines, when you could say "well, if you like them...buy this whole army". It's just a sales-pitch driven decision, and logical from the company's side of things.
Kirasu wrote: Yet "make it more fluffy" doesnt apply to the other 7 legions. Just the ones with separate books they want to sell you :p
Well, that and because they want us to buy the new models they are releasing to fill all the holes in our army. Holes they themselves created.
I'm not going to lie, I'm okay with that if it means we get some much needed support and new units for chaos as a whole, and a couple extra subfactions are a good way to do it.
Of course, on reflection I suppose most of the things they are releasing aren't filling holes in our army left by the removal of units. That really only applies to the drones, who are our biker/raptor/Heldrake equivalent I guess, and the plagueburst crawler replacing the vindicator.
Technically I guess the PM are now supposed to replace chosen and havocs, but special weapon PM units were already a thing and no one uses melee equipped chosen.
Elbows wrote: The reason it's more restrictive is to push models...really. You can leave it up to the players to make it fluffy (as many will), but why encourage someone to buy one squad of plague marines, when you could say "well, if you like them...buy this whole army". It's just a sales-pitch driven decision, and logical from the company's side of things.
Plus, if you don't restrict sub-factions... how exactly you make them? If DG could take all CSM can take but with other add-ons, they will be just CSM+1. That isn't how you do sub-factions.
Marshal Loss wrote: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/07/codex-focus-death-guard-part-2-special-rules-and-psychic-powers-sep-7gw-homepage-post-2/
Article up!
Also titled "Why we hate Black Legion and other reasons that your chapter abilities suck"
So old units aren't gettig DR (or obviously t5 either). Yeah sure, so my nurgle Lords are now weaker than my basic damn marines, AGAIN. What a pathetic excuse for a release.
Loving these new rules. Blades of Putrefaction on Poxwalkers seems strong. Love our Chapter Tactic too. Don't have to worry about those silly to hit modifiers. Also, longer-range, double-tapping plasma weapons!
Re: Necrosius - is there a model for him? Or are people using the generic Nurgle Sorceror from FW to represent him?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote: So old units aren't gettig DR (or obviously t5 either). Yeah sure, so my nurgle Lords are now weaker than my basic damn marines, AGAIN. What a pathetic excuse for a release.
Why not just make your Nurgle Lord a Lord of Contagion?
puma713 wrote: Loving these new rules. Blades of Putrefaction on Poxwalkers seems strong. Love our Chapter Tactic too. Don't have to worry about those silly to hit modifiers. Also, longer-range, double-tapping plasma weapons!
Re: Necrosius - is there a model for him? Or are people using the generic Nurgle Sorceror from FW to represent him?
The FW Nurgle Sorceror is Necrosius, just not listed by name. Same as the FW greater daemons being the named ones from the FW Index. He's a great model, gross and fun to paint.
Marshal Loss wrote: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/07/codex-focus-death-guard-part-2-special-rules-and-psychic-powers-sep-7gw-homepage-post-2/
Article up!
Putrescent Vitality+Typhus+Necrosius will make Poxwalkers fething broken... T5 S5 and every kill grows the unit....
Can Death Guard take the big FW dreadnoughts? The Leviathan in particular has some really nice heavy weapons that mainly suffer from having terrible range.
Dionysodorus wrote: Can Death Guard take the big FW dreadnoughts? The Leviathan in particular has some really nice heavy weapons that mainly suffer from having terrible range.
puma713 wrote: Loving these new rules. Blades of Putrefaction on Poxwalkers seems strong. Love our Chapter Tactic too. Don't have to worry about those silly to hit modifiers. Also, longer-range, double-tapping plasma weapons!
Re: Necrosius - is there a model for him? Or are people using the generic Nurgle Sorceror from FW to represent him?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote: So old units aren't gettig DR (or obviously t5 either). Yeah sure, so my nurgle Lords are now weaker than my basic damn marines, AGAIN. What a pathetic excuse for a release.
Why not just make your Nurgle Lord a Lord of Contagion?
I want to be able to take Lords in power armour, or in termie armour with other weapons. I also don't want to take some halfassed version that is for whatever reason weaker than the marines that he bloody leads. Is that too much to ask?
puma713 wrote: Loving these new rules. Blades of Putrefaction on Poxwalkers seems strong. Love our Chapter Tactic too. Don't have to worry about those silly to hit modifiers. Also, longer-range, double-tapping plasma weapons!
Re: Necrosius - is there a model for him? Or are people using the generic Nurgle Sorceror from FW to represent him?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote: So old units aren't gettig DR (or obviously t5 either). Yeah sure, so my nurgle Lords are now weaker than my basic damn marines, AGAIN. What a pathetic excuse for a release.
Why not just make your Nurgle Lord a Lord of Contagion?
The FW Nurgle sorc is Necrosis. They just didn't titel him that on their site. Just like they named all their greater deamons, etc
Helbrutes. Also, a Havoc-type unit, if one exists.
I keep forgetting that Helbrutes are a thing...
em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote: Can Death Guard take the big FW dreadnoughts? The Leviathan in particular has some really nice heavy weapons that mainly suffer from having terrible range.
They are not Helbrutes.
Weren't the FW dreads FAQ'd to have the Helbrute keyword?
Helbrutes. Also, a Havoc-type unit, if one exists.
I keep forgetting that Helbrutes are a thing...
em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote: Can Death Guard take the big FW dreadnoughts? The Leviathan in particular has some really nice heavy weapons that mainly suffer from having terrible range.
They are not Helbrutes.
Weren't the FW dreads FAQ'd to have the Helbrute keyword?
Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote: So old units aren't gettig DR (or obviously t5 either). Yeah sure, so my nurgle Lords are now weaker than my basic damn marines, AGAIN. What a pathetic excuse for a release.
The only units they said arent getting DR are Helbrutes and Possessed. The post actually says most units will get DR and lists Helbrutes and Possessed as the exceptions. I would actually assume every other infantry unit will get DR.
Helbrutes. Also, a Havoc-type unit, if one exists.
I keep forgetting that Helbrutes are a thing...
em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote: Can Death Guard take the big FW dreadnoughts? The Leviathan in particular has some really nice heavy weapons that mainly suffer from having terrible range.
They are not Helbrutes.
Weren't the FW dreads FAQ'd to have the Helbrute keyword?
Dionysodorus wrote: Can Death Guard take the big FW dreadnoughts? The Leviathan in particular has some really nice heavy weapons that mainly suffer from having terrible range.
They are not Helbrutes.
Weren't the FW dreads FAQ'd to have the Helbrute keyword?
Yes but whether that matters is whether DG have access to Helbrutes or HELBRUTES: one is a unit the other is a keyword.
Wow, everything said in this post is amazing. The Legion tactic is like the Black Legion's but actually good (sorry Black Legion players, that's a pretty big dick punch to you guys) and those powers are insane!
As someone else said, pox walkers can be made monstrous...
Marshal Loss wrote: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/07/codex-focus-death-guard-part-2-special-rules-and-psychic-powers-sep-7gw-homepage-post-2/
Article up!
I swear to god it'd be nice if someone could give us an actual accurate total for how many datasheets are in this thing.
Spoiler:
WD says 33 and 7 new characters, the Facebook page said 15 new units, this article says 9 brand new units and the... 4 new units from dark imperium (I think they meant 5, or they don't count poxwalkers either) plus the index. None of these work properly together. Considering we have at least 3 new units according to this (plagueburst crawler and two unique types of terminators according to this) that's 3 new non character units out of 9 units total.... meaning at most 6 new characters. But even if they forgot one, how does a 22 unit index+9 new units have room for multiple demons if it is only 33 datasheets? 9+4(5) also isn't 15 so.... gah. Maybe WD included morty in the 7, but this article didn't count him as one of the 9, so it's only have 6 new characters in their total, but that leaves even less room for demons and they claimed nothing was removed from the index. Not to mention they said new demon engines plural, which I forgot about till now. Gah!!!! This makes no sense!
How hard is it to open a book and count the number of datasheets. Seriously. Because apparently it's way harder than you'd think. I'm sure it's not even their fault, it's however keeps telling all these PR and community people conflicting things.
Moving on: our chapter tactic is really really good and exactly what our army needs. While -1 to hit might outside 12 on everyone might have been better overall, this really helps with our range issues. Plasma PM squads and blight launcher squads both look great, and terminators actually have some interesting options for deepstriking a bit further away and not worrying about melee. Helbrutes can also run mixed loadouts much better. This is a really nice take on relentless for 8e and I'm a big fan. Do wish we had more heavy weapons to use it with as havocs seem out for sure now.
Did blades of putrification get leaked because I thought it was one of the index powers, but when I went to check it wasn't there. Swear I've seen it somewhere before. It's also pretty nice as far as it goes. Good lord though, a big cluster of plague marines kitted for melee with morty casting this on them in range of both his auras will be nasty.
Vitality is a little less fancy but not bad. Offers a bit of offense and defense. It's also handy it helps against some of the things toughness 4->5 didn't, like strength 3. Also, our marines go from being wounded on a 3+ by HB to a 5+. Which is funny.
Also, on the topic of DR... Tuesday they said our generic demon princes get DR. But our possessed and helbrutes do not. So... some of our shared units get it and others don't? Or just our shared HQs. Again, confusing.
Dionysodorus wrote: Can Death Guard take the big FW dreadnoughts? The Leviathan in particular has some really nice heavy weapons that mainly suffer from having terrible range.
Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote: So old units aren't gettig DR (or obviously t5 either). Yeah sure, so my nurgle Lords are now weaker than my basic damn marines, AGAIN. What a pathetic excuse for a release.
The only units they said arent getting DR are Helbrutes and Possessed. The post actually says most units will get DR and lists Helbrutes and Possessed as the exceptions. I would actually assume every other infantry unit will get DR.
Unless I'm missing something?
"Older units like Possessed and Helbrutes" That means that they're not the only ones. If it was only vehicles it'd be fine and make sense, but since they decided to do it with an infantry unit as well, its pretty clear that Lords and Sorcerers are also going to be effected.
Look at our CT again. The "helbrute" bit isn't bolded meaning it refers to the unit not the keyword, so FW dreadnoughts still don't gain access to our CT until they explicitly FAQ that they do.
GW added a keyword just for helbrutes to allow easy reference, then decided not to use it either because they thought it didn't matter because their is only one helbrute unit or just to screw with FW.
Has anyone thought about stacking Blades of Putrification and VotLW? If the unit has plague weapons that means you're doing Mortal wounds on a 5+! Basically, Girlyman is gonna be dropping bricks if a DG melee unit gets into charge range.
Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote: "Older units like Possessed and Helbrutes" That means that they're not the only ones. If it was only vehicles it'd be fine and make sense, but since they decided to do it with an infantry unit as well, its pretty clear that Lords and Sorcerers are also going to be effected.
But they also said DG demon princes did get DR on Tuesday. So... who knows at this point.
Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote: "Older units like Possessed and Helbrutes" That means that they're not the only ones. If it was only vehicles it'd be fine and make sense, but since they decided to do it with an infantry unit as well, its pretty clear that Lords and Sorcerers are also going to be effected.
But they also said DG demon princes did get DR on Tuesday. So... who knows at this point.
I would be genuinely suprised if Lord's and Sorcerers don't get DR while the Daemon Prince does.
Marshal Loss wrote: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/07/codex-focus-death-guard-part-2-special-rules-and-psychic-powers-sep-7gw-homepage-post-2/
Article up!
I swear to god it'd be nice if someone could give us an actual accurate total for how many datasheets are in this thing.
Spoiler:
WD says 33 and 7 new characters, the Facebook page said 15 new units, this article says 9 brand new units and the... 4 new units from dark imperium (I think they meant 5, or they don't count poxwalkers either) plus the index. None of these work properly together. Considering we have at least 3 new units according to this (plagueburst crawler and two unique types of terminators according to this) that's 3 new non character units out of 9 units total.... meaning at most 6 new characters. But even if they forgot one, how does a 22 unit index+9 new units have room for multiple demons if it is only 33 datasheets? 9+4(5) also isn't 15 so.... gah. Maybe WD included morty in the 7, but this article didn't count him as one of the 9, so it's only have 6 new characters in their total, but that leaves even less room for demons and they claimed nothing was removed from the index. Not to mention they said new demon engines plural, which I forgot about till now. Gah!!!! This makes no sense!
How hard is it to open a book and count the number of datasheets. Seriously. Because apparently it's way harder than you'd think. I'm sure it's not even their fault, it's however keeps telling all these PR and community people conflicting things.
Moving on: our chapter tactic is really really good and exactly what our army needs. While -1 to hit might outside 12 on everyone might have been better overall, this really helps with our range issues. Plasma PM squads and blight launcher squads both look great, and terminators actually have some interesting options for deepstriking a bit further away and not worrying about melee. Helbrutes can also run mixed loadouts much better. This is a really nice take on relentless for 8e and I'm a big fan. Do wish we had more heavy weapons to use it with as havocs seem out for sure now.
Did blades of putrification get leaked because I thought it was one of the index powers, but when I went to check it wasn't there. Swear I've seen it somewhere before. It's also pretty nice as far as it goes. Good lord though, a big cluster of plague marines kitted for melee with morty casting this on them in range of both his auras will be nasty.
Vitality is a little less fancy but not bad. Offers a bit of offense and defense. It's also handy it helps against some of the things toughness 4->5 didn't, like strength 3. Also, our marines go from being wounded on a 3+ by HB to a 5+. Which is funny.
Also, on the topic of DR... Tuesday they said our generic demon princes get DR. But our possessed and helbrutes do not. So... some of our shared units get it and others don't? Or just our shared HQs. Again, confusing.
Maybe when they say 4 new units, they aren't counting Plague Marines, as they've been in the game before. I have no idea how the numbers add up. Clearly GW are really good at math. Good to know daemons will be in there though.
I have to agree, our Legion tactic is very strong and really makes up for our main weakness. I'd be tempted to run a 14 man unit of plague marines with melee weapons and a couple of Blight launchers in with Morty and cast that power on them. Expensive as hell but they'd mess things up good. These powers also insane on pox walkers, making those little buggers really strong without Typhus, but almost broken with Typhus.
The +1 toughness power might also be really good for Morty as well, granting him T8. That mixed with -1 to hit from one of our other powers would definitely make him a tough nut to crack.
mrhappyface wrote: Has anyone thought about stacking Blades of Putrification and VotLW? If the unit has plague weapons that means you're doing Mortal wounds on a 5+! Basically, Girlyman is gonna be dropping bricks if a DG melee unit gets into charge range.
... okay I was about to say you couldn't unless we also gain access to that specific stratagem due to how stratagems work but:
1. The CSM say you must have a CSM detachment to use them. DG probably doesn't count, it probably means a detachment from the codex, as opposed to a heretic astartes detachment which we would count as.
2. However, if you had a detachment of codex CSM, you could use them freely
3. VotLW only specifies it requires a heretic astartes infantry unit. I don't see any other references to targeting such stratagems.
4. Also note some do specify <legion>, like the predator stratagem, which is specifically stated to not include DG. Others specify CSM unbolded (meaning the book) vs heretic astartes bolded (meaning the keyword)
So either
A). This is a bit of a rules screw up and potential exploit with allies gifting each other stratagems.
B). I missed a rule somewhere forbidding it.
C). We can now tell which specific stratagems we share with the normal CSM codex.
If C, it would include: Daemon shell, blasphemous vehicles, chaos boon, veterans of the long war, grandfather's blessing, tide of traitors, chaos familiar, flakk missle (if we have any infatry with ML which we currently don't), and fire frenzy.
So that's neat.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tiberius501 wrote: Maybe when they say 4 new units, they aren't counting Plague Marines, as they've been in the game before. I have no idea how the numbers add up. Clearly GW are really good at math. Good to know daemons will be in there though.
I have to agree, our Legion tactic is very strong and really makes up for our main weakness. I'd be tempted to run a 14 man unit of plague marines with melee weapons and a couple of Blight launchers in with Morty and cast that power on them. Expensive as hell but they'd mess things up good. These powers also insane on pox walkers, making those little buggers really strong without Typhus, but almost broken with Typhus.
The +1 toughness power might also be really good for Morty as well, granting him T8. That mixed with -1 to hit from one of our other powers would definitely make him a tough nut to crack.
DI had poxwalkers, the drone, PMs, and three characters, bell dude, our special sorcerer, and the lord. Even ignoring PMs that's 5 new units. And personally I'm annoyed about the demons but to each their own.
Note blades of putrification doesn't entirely apply to poxwalkers, they don't get mortal wounds as their weapons aren't plague weapons. Presumably.
Tiberius501 wrote: Maybe when they say 4 new units, they aren't counting Plague Marines, as they've been in the game before. I have no idea how the numbers add up. Clearly GW are really good at math. Good to know daemons will be in there though.
I have to agree, our Legion tactic is very strong and really makes up for our main weakness. I'd be tempted to run a 14 man unit of plague marines with melee weapons and a couple of Blight launchers in with Morty and cast that power on them. Expensive as hell but they'd mess things up good. These powers also insane on pox walkers, making those little buggers really strong without Typhus, but almost broken with Typhus.
The +1 toughness power might also be really good for Morty as well, granting him T8. That mixed with -1 to hit from one of our other powers would definitely make him a tough nut to crack.
DI had poxwalkers, the drone, PMs, and three characters, bell dude, our special sorcerer, and the lord. Even ignoring PMs that's 5 new units. And personally I'm annoyed about the demons but to each their own.
Note blades of putrification doesn't entirely apply to poxwalkers, they don't get mortal wounds as their weapons aren't plague weapons. Presumably.
Ah true about the number of units. I'm also clearly good at math.
And yeah, Poxos won't be doing mortal wounds, but getting +1 to wound will make them pretty nasty, mixed with the other one giving them T4-5 and S4-5
Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote: So old units aren't gettig DR (or obviously t5 either). Yeah sure, so my nurgle Lords are now weaker than my basic damn marines, AGAIN. What a pathetic excuse for a release.
The only units they said arent getting DR are Helbrutes and Possessed. The post actually says most units will get DR and lists Helbrutes and Possessed as the exceptions. I would actually assume every other infantry unit will get DR.
Unless I'm missing something?
The word like. You are missing the word like.
Older units like Possessed and Helbrutes lack Disgustingly Resilient but will benefit from your Stratagems significantly...
They're listed as examples. And when it came to mentioning older units they broke down afterwards stating what they were. So the belief that older units are not getting DR is quite a valid one.
I think everything they showed in today's article is good but not great. One big issue is that the new CSM plague marine entry changed it from Y special/melee weapons per X guys in the squad to Y special/melee weapons per unit (plus sergeant options).
So all the psychic powers and stratagems should be used on big units, but if you take a squad of 10-20 plague marines, almost all of them will be guys with bolters rather than plague weapons. Big shame. I guess they really want you to take DG terminators.
It also really stinks that the +1 str and +1 toughness is infantry only. Is there much of a point, when they are usually toughness 5 already? And lots of plague weapons already add strength?
I am crossing my fingers that plague drones get a badly needed points drop, too.
Virules wrote: I think everything they showed in today's article is good but not great. One big issue is that the new CSM plague marine entry changed it from Y special/melee weapons per X guys in the squad to Y special/melee weapons per unit (plus sergeant options).
So all the psychic powers and stratagems should be used on big units, but if you take a squad of 10-20 plague marines, almost all of them will be guys with bolters rather than plague weapons. Big shame. I guess they really want you to take DG terminators.
It also really stinks that the +1 str and +1 toughness is infantry only. Is there much of a point, when they are usually toughness 5 already? And lots of plague weapons already add strength?
I am crossing my fingers that plague drones get a badly needed points drop, too.
Can make poxwalkers STR 5 T 5. Or Marines t6 so heavy bolters (which primaris have a boatload of) need 5s to wound.
Virules wrote: I think everything they showed in today's article is good but not great. One big issue is that the new CSM plague marine entry changed it from Y special/melee weapons per X guys in the squad to Y special/melee weapons per unit (plus sergeant options).
So all the psychic powers and stratagems should be used on big units, but if you take a squad of 10-20 plague marines, almost all of them will be guys with bolters rather than plague weapons. Big shame. I guess they really want you to take DG terminators.
It also really stinks that the +1 str and +1 toughness is infantry only. Is there much of a point, when they are usually toughness 5 already? And lots of plague weapons already add strength?
I am crossing my fingers that plague drones get a badly needed points drop, too.
Can make poxwalkers STR 5 T 5. Or Marines t6 so heavy bolters (which primaris have a boatload of) need 5s to wound.
I like the idea of str 5 toughness 5 poxwalkers, but too bad you can only take 20 in a squad.
Virules wrote: I think everything they showed in today's article is good but not great. One big issue is that the new CSM plague marine entry changed it from Y special/melee weapons per X guys in the squad to Y special/melee weapons per unit (plus sergeant options).
So all the psychic powers and stratagems should be used on big units, but if you take a squad of 10-20 plague marines, almost all of them will be guys with bolters rather than plague weapons. Big shame. I guess they really want you to take DG terminators.
It also really stinks that the +1 str and +1 toughness is infantry only. Is there much of a point, when they are usually toughness 5 already? And lots of plague weapons already add strength?
I am crossing my fingers that plague drones get a badly needed points drop, too.
PMs were like that in the codex last edition. They were great as MSU troops because of it, they didn't need 10 men to get two specials. Plus the whole fearless and T 5 fnp thing.
However, note that new plague marines can all be given plague axes to go with their knives instead of bolters, getting a second attack and the better weapon profile as well. So you can run a melee dedicated plague marine unit where the baseline is 2 A with power axes, which is as good as what normal terminators have, plus the flails/cleavers/axe+mace combo.
Toughness 6 does help vs str 3, 5, and 6, which are fairly common anti infantry weapons. Las weapons, heavy bolters, and the assault cannon for example.
Older units like Possessed and Helbrutes lack Disgustingly Resilient but will benefit from your Stratagems significantly...
They're listed as examples. And when it came to mentioning older units they broke down afterwards stating what they were. So the belief that older units are not getting DR is quite a valid one.
Note that they didn't list an HQ though. And again, they mentioned DG demon princes will have DR. So I think HQs having it but other shared units not having it also isn't entirely unlikely. Worst comes to worst you could always use a lord on a palanquin to get T 5 and an extra wound if you wanted.
So two of the 9 are gonna be the 'new termintors'
The other one is the new tank.
So minus 4 from new units + termies
Thats what 3 units we dont 'know about' - which are hopefully havocs etc
So unless that last unit is a version of the below 'DEATH GUARD' cannot take:
Maulerfiends
Forgefiends
Obiltertors
Havocs
Vindicators
Heldrakes
Warptalons
Raptors
Chaos Bikers
Mutilators
Chosen
Noise/Rubric/Zerks - obviously
Terminators (new unit confirmed)
Chaos space marines
Warpsmiths
Dark Apostles
hmmm.....
I'm in the (you can take these in another detachement as DEATH GUARDIANS etc) but still.... hmmmmm
Virules wrote: I think everything they showed in today's article is good but not great. One big issue is that the new CSM plague marine entry changed it from Y special/melee weapons per X guys in the squad to Y special/melee weapons per unit (plus sergeant options).
So all the psychic powers and stratagems should be used on big units, but if you take a squad of 10-20 plague marines, almost all of them will be guys with bolters rather than plague weapons. Big shame. I guess they really want you to take DG terminators.
It also really stinks that the +1 str and +1 toughness is infantry only. Is there much of a point, when they are usually toughness 5 already? And lots of plague weapons already add strength?
I am crossing my fingers that plague drones get a badly needed points drop, too.
Can make poxwalkers STR 5 T 5. Or Marines t6 so heavy bolters (which primaris have a boatload of) need 5s to wound.
I like the idea of str 5 toughness 5 poxwalkers, but too bad you can only take 20 in a squad.
Can you get more than 20 when you kill a unit and get.more.models? Can the unit grow bigger than it's starting size?
Pretty sure the 20 man limit is just because that is how many you got in the starter set. Now that they have 5-10 man little additions you can get you will be able to make larger squads.
Many things are limited by the available models at the time of release. Look at the plague marine champion options in the codex, less than a regular plague marine. I bet we will see a lot more options and unit sizes once the full codex drops.
Look at our CT again. The "helbrute" bit isn't bolded meaning it refers to the unit not the keyword, so FW dreadnoughts still don't gain access to our CT until they explicitly FAQ that they do.
GW added a keyword just for helbrutes to allow easy reference, then decided not to use it either because they thought it didn't matter because their is only one helbrute unit or just to screw with FW.
Qlanth wrote: Can you get more than 20 when you kill a unit and get.more.models? Can the unit grow bigger than it's starting size?
I don't know if we have an answer to that from GW. I'd be tempted to say that you can keep filling the unit back up to its original model count with no problem, but if you want to go beyond that, you have to have "summoning" points set aside to do so.
Virules wrote: I think everything they showed in today's article is good but not great. One big issue is that the new CSM plague marine entry changed it from Y special/melee weapons per X guys in the squad to Y special/melee weapons per unit (plus sergeant options).
So all the psychic powers and stratagems should be used on big units, but if you take a squad of 10-20 plague marines, almost all of them will be guys with bolters rather than plague weapons. Big shame. I guess they really want you to take DG terminators.
It also really stinks that the +1 str and +1 toughness is infantry only. Is there much of a point, when they are usually toughness 5 already? And lots of plague weapons already add strength?
I am crossing my fingers that plague drones get a badly needed points drop, too.
Can make poxwalkers STR 5 T 5. Or Marines t6 so heavy bolters (which primaris have a boatload of) need 5s to wound.
I like the idea of str 5 toughness 5 poxwalkers, but too bad you can only take 20 in a squad.
Can you get more than 20 when you kill a unit and get.more.models? Can the unit grow bigger than it's starting size?
Yeah they can. Also, PM's can have 20 man units in the CSM Dex, so it's very plausible to assume Poxos will be getting a larger unit size in the full DG Dex
Virules wrote: I think everything they showed in today's article is good but not great. One big issue is that the new CSM plague marine entry changed it from Y special/melee weapons per X guys in the squad to Y special/melee weapons per unit (plus sergeant options).
So all the psychic powers and stratagems should be used on big units, but if you take a squad of 10-20 plague marines, almost all of them will be guys with bolters rather than plague weapons. Big shame. I guess they really want you to take DG terminators.
It also really stinks that the +1 str and +1 toughness is infantry only. Is there much of a point, when they are usually toughness 5 already? And lots of plague weapons already add strength?
I am crossing my fingers that plague drones get a badly needed points drop, too.
Can make poxwalkers STR 5 T 5. Or Marines t6 so heavy bolters (which primaris have a boatload of) need 5s to wound.
I like the idea of str 5 toughness 5 poxwalkers, but too bad you can only take 20 in a squad.
Can you get more than 20 when you kill a unit and get.more.models? Can the unit grow bigger than it's starting size?
Yea, you can. But really that's almost never going to come up. Chances of a full 20 man pox walker unit charging something, not losing any models and killing a bunch to get over 20 is unlikely. They are a good tar pit and screening unit, that's bout it
Look at our CT again. The "helbrute" bit isn't bolded meaning it refers to the unit not the keyword, so FW dreadnoughts still don't gain access to our CT until they explicitly FAQ that they do.
GW added a keyword just for helbrutes to allow easy reference, then decided not to use it either because they thought it didn't matter because their is only one helbrute unit or just to screw with FW.
Dammit.
Note this isn't consistent with the normal CSM codex, where it does apply to the helbrute keyword, and the CSM already was errata'd to apply to demon princes, which we would assume would apply as well here. So it could be those are early rules or it'll be faq'd later.
Black Legion were bad from the get go in the new codex.
But, yes, DG won the Chapter/Legion Tactics lottery pretty handily.... even without Disgustingly Resilient (which itself is twice as good as Chapter Tactics from other chapters). And a lot of their other special rules bloat is rather good as well.
Unless their '9 new units' are really terrible and limited/lacking in options, most legions and chapters just aren't playing the same game.
Look at our CT again. The "helbrute" bit isn't bolded meaning it refers to the unit not the keyword, so FW dreadnoughts still don't gain access to our CT until they explicitly FAQ that they do.
GW added a keyword just for helbrutes to allow easy reference, then decided not to use it either because they thought it didn't matter because their is only one helbrute unit or just to screw with FW.
Dammit.
You can take everything in the chaos Forge World FAQ per the FAQ ruling that says what you can and cannot take guys:
"You can only choose for a unit to be from the Death Guard Legion if it has the Nurgle keyword, or if it has the <Mark of Chaos> keyword and you choose to replace that with Nurgle. You cannot choose for a Hellforged Rapier Battery, a Chaos Hellwright or a Chaos Hellwright on Dark Abeyant to be from the Death Guard."
Black Legion were bad from the get go in the new codex.
But, yes, DG won the Chapter/Legion Tactics lottery pretty handily.... even without Disgustingly Resilient (which itself is twice as good as Chapter Tactics from other chapters). And a lot of their other special rules bloat is rather good as well.
Unless their '9 new units' are really terrible and limited/lacking in options, most legions and chapters just aren't playing the same game.
I am sad... but don't forget Black legion has Abbadon. He is the only CSM hero other than Kharn who can give a reroll to hit aura. Plus he makes all CSM units within 12 inches immune to morale. Those two auras are not a small thing.
Anyway, back to DG. a MSU squad of 5 plague marines can take 3 plasma guns. Think MSU squads are the way to go? Have 5 squads of MSU plague marines radiating out from a Daemon prince who will give them rerolls on 1 (so they can risk overcharging). That's 30 plasma gun shots at 18 inch range.
Look at our CT again. The "helbrute" bit isn't bolded meaning it refers to the unit not the keyword, so FW dreadnoughts still don't gain access to our CT until they explicitly FAQ that they do.
GW added a keyword just for helbrutes to allow easy reference, then decided not to use it either because they thought it didn't matter because their is only one helbrute unit or just to screw with FW.
Dammit.
You can take everything in the chaos Forge World FAQ per the FAQ ruling that says what you can and cannot take guys:
"You can only choose for a unit to be from the Death Guard Legion if it has the Nurgle keyword, or if it has the <Mark of Chaos> keyword and you choose to replace that with Nurgle. You cannot choose for a Hellforged Rapier Battery, a Chaos Hellwright or a Chaos Hellwright on Dark Abeyant to be from the Death Guard."
So that dread you want to take is in....
Yeah, but it still wouldn't be affected by the Chapter Tactic, because it targets Helbrute units and not <Helbrute>.
So wait the new DG codex is good now? But I thought it was terrible! What good is jumping to conclusions weeks before hand if they turn out to be complete bs!?
rvd1ofakind wrote: I don't understand people acting shocked/angry at DG Codex looking strong. Right now they are horrible. Why wouldn't they get a lot stronger?
I think people still think GW still has some kinda agenda (or at least specific uninterested writers) trying to keep certain factions down.
Its pretty obvious that previous editions did but this time around they seem to be doing an ok job overall. there are obvious problems but until we see what happens with IG and assassins we wont know.
also FW is borking all the things. (they seem to ether not give a damn or was REALLY caught off guard with the edition change some how)
NinthMusketeer wrote: So wait the new DG codex is good now? But I thought it was terrible! What good is jumping to conclusions weeks before hand if they turn out to be complete bs!?
We still aren't going to be competitive at a high level no, and will likely struggle even below that until our points are adjusted in (hopefully) this year's chapter approved.
Even then I've yet to see anything strictly better than what normal CSM has. There might be a few things but look at the sort of things people are talking about, footslogging 20 man poxwalker and PM units upfield, being able to used mixed helbrutes better, maybe getting a nice boost on FW helbrutes.
Being excited over cool rules and units works alongside realizing said units are going to be overcosted initially and our tactics aren't ones that work well in the current edition.
Intriguing releases thus far hoping for a multi part plastic Death Guard kit perhaps a "Start Collecting" boxset although I suppose Know No Fear fills that void...
Started with Dark Imperium so got the Full Kabosh so to say..
rvd1ofakind wrote: I don't understand people acting shocked/angry at DG Codex looking strong. Right now they are horrible. Why wouldn't they get a lot stronger?
What thread have you been reading through? The last 10 pages were people complaining about how Mortarion is bad, now people are saying that DG can be quite good. No one has been angry about DG being strong.
It is a bit weird people going "they suck, they suck"
*Tuesday's Article* "Yeah, sucks"
*Thursday's Article* "So good! Suck it Black Legion!"
It all just comes down to the points.
Problem for Death Guard right now its you pay around 50% more for - to be fair - a big boost vs S3/4 shooting. But you get no damage boost at all, in a game all about alpha striking stuff. So its not surprising they are not doing badly.
Based on the hints you would imagine the damage output will go up with this release but whether its enough remains to be seen.
Desubot wrote: I think people still think GW still has some kinda agenda (or at least specific uninterested writers) trying to keep certain factions down.
No it is more that they actually have clear idea how they are balancing the game this time, which is good, but also means flaws in the design can be extremely obvious.
The flaw that hurts DG is that invidual units/models pay quite a bit for increases in durability, compared to the price of simply taking more bodies. This is compensated by larger units having issues with morale or burning through slots faster for non troop units. However, because many armies which can easily field such units also have synergy bonuses allowing them to minimize the issues with high unit count, that ends up not mattering as often as it should. The fact such synergy bonuses are also really cheap for what they offer, another common thread this edition where HQ buffs are often cheap to encourage synergistic play, means our army ends up both not being very durable for their cost, but also is more vulnerable to morale. Certain units, like poxwalkers, are better as morale rules like fearless are still not paying as much for fearless as a unit like DG is for their improved toughness, but the fact it's baked in rather than coming from synergy still means we are paying more than other armies for the same effect, because of how it's delivered.
This is actually something you can track across multiple armies and units, and while it has been addressed to a degree it's still an issue, one likely to effect our army pretty dramatically.
Again, this isn't that bad. The mere fact they have a (mostly) consistent balance strategy and have begun addressing problems as they are made obvious helps a lot, and the problem should continue to get better when our codices points are eventually updated.
Edit: I suppose that's also why I was so down on morty, synergy bonuses, strong ones, are what could make our army worth using. Morty barely even managed synergy beyond what a lot of generic HQs can do, which was a let down.
I hope Silence has 2 modes:
1. A mode similar to Magnus' current weapon
2. S6, AP0, D1. Every attack does 5 hits(since they said he's the best horde clearer) 30 attacks seems good to me
I am willing to bet Silence does 3 or d6 damage and the damage isn't lost, just like how mortal wounds work. The new plague flails operate exactly like that. If Mortarion can bleed over damage, that is a simple mechanic and a great way to kill hordes.
NinthMusketeer wrote: So wait the new DG codex is good now? But I thought it was terrible! What good is jumping to conclusions weeks before hand if they turn out to be complete bs!?
We still aren't going to be competitive at a high level no, and will likely struggle even below that until our points are adjusted in (hopefully) this year's chapter approved.
Even then I've yet to see anything strictly better than what normal CSM has. There might be a few things but look at the sort of things people are talking about, footslogging 20 man poxwalker and PM units upfield, being able to used mixed helbrutes better, maybe getting a nice boost on FW helbrutes.
Being excited over cool rules and units works alongside realizing said units are going to be overcosted initially and our tactics aren't ones that work well in the current edition.
Why you assume that DG point's aren't gonna be adjusted in their own Codex?
I think silence is gonna have some "Has X attacks. X= The number of enemy models at a 2" distance from Mortarion"
Galas wrote: Why you assume that DG point's aren't gonna be adjusted in their own Codex?
I think silence is gonna have some "Has X attacks. X= The number of enemy models at a 2" distance from Mortarion"
They will be adjusted. To the degree PM cost was adjusted. Which went from "nonsensically priced" to "slightly more expensive than is justified". The second pass we get with chapter approved should square things away is the hope.
Crunching the numbers, with fairly expensive blight launchers on already expensive plague marines, it's tough to figure out a good list (especially with Mortarion's power level cost estimate). I am really wondering what paying more points to field the Tallyman and/or apothecary can do to make a plague marine heavy army more worthwhile.
There were a small few comments on the Facebook post asking if Lords and Sorcs have DR, but those seem to have all been deleted. GW trying to cover there tracks I'd presume, very bad sign.
That's it all 33!!!
I got them all on first guessing ^^
Morty
Typhus
Plague Caster
Lord of Contagion
Bell guy
Apothecary
Guy with mask and barrel full of pus in the back
Possibly guy with needle gun and pouches stringed on spikes in the back
Plague Marine Standard Bearer
DeathShroud termies
Death Guard termies
Plague Marines
Foetid Drones
PoxWalkers
Plague Crawler(tank)
Plaguebearers
Nurglins
Plague Drones
Daemon Prince
Chaos Lord
Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour
Chaos Lord on Palanquin of Nurgle
Sorcerer
Sorcerer in Terminator Armour
Sorcerer in Palanquin of Nurgle
Chaos Cultists
Possessed
Helbrute
Chaos Rhino
Chaos Spawn
Defiler
Chaos Predator
Chaos Land Raider
SilverAlien wrote: The flaw that hurts DG is that invidual units/models pay quite a bit for increases in durability, compared to the price of simply taking more bodies. This is compensated by larger units having issues with morale or burning through slots faster for non troop units. However, because many armies which can easily field such units also have synergy bonuses allowing them to minimize the issues with high unit count, that ends up not mattering as often as it should. The fact such synergy bonuses are also really cheap for what they offer, another common thread this edition where HQ buffs are often cheap to encourage synergistic play, means our army ends up both not being very durable for their cost, but also is more vulnerable to morale. Certain units, like poxwalkers, are better as morale rules like fearless are still not paying as much for fearless as a unit like DG is for their improved toughness, but the fact it's baked in rather than coming from synergy still means we are paying more than other armies for the same effect, because of how it's delivered.
This is actually something you can track across multiple armies and units, and while it has been addressed to a degree it's still an issue, one likely to effect our army pretty dramatically.
That's a truly excellent analysis.
One of my first thoughts when reading about the leaks for DG was "wow, that sounds nice against other elite armies, but against hordes I dunno... ".
The problem is that poxwalkers are an excellent troop, but it's really the other units which supposedly have a real impact. And one can expect everything but poxwalkers to be quite pricey.
I dunno, we'll have to see the whole thing.
Another thing that bugs me is that havocs are apprently gone. My DG army was mostly typhus+zombies+plague marines w boltguns+havocs (and a couple of extra things like a helbrute).
I dunno how I feel about having to buy Mortarion+ new tanks + new plague marines. It seems that I'd have to buy a lot of new stuff to make my army even remotely competitive (it was never really).
I think for Death Guard to really be worth playing you need to have Poxwalkers cost a point less, you need some really good stratagems that have not yet been revealed, and you need some good synergy buffs and auras that have not been revealed yet. I'm hoping.
I would not be surprised in the least. We already have seen 3-4 different Melee options that could be on terminators (similar to MANz) is enough for them to slap the price tag on.
Damn, the absence of havocs is really bumming me out. I've got two units I painted 6 months ago. I thought the days when GW made you shelve some miniatures were over for some reason...
Talking of which... How many heavy weapons can actually be used with the trait? It seems this is only useful for Helbrutes and -possibly- terminators (assuming the Death shroud isn't so good that they make the terminators redundant).
Firing boltguns and plasmaguns at 18" is nice, just as firing blight launchers after advancing is... But the best way to make plague marines cost-effective seems to kit them out for assaulting... In which case the rhino still remains a better option than footlsogging. Even a 5-man squad with plasma weapons will enjoy the protection of a rhino... Considering a plague marine is 19ppm, I'm not sure I'd go for the footslogging option...
Point is, the trait seems sweet... Until you realize it's not easy to use it on the units we get.
rvd1ofakind wrote: I don't understand people acting shocked/angry at DG Codex looking strong. Right now they are horrible. Why wouldn't they get a lot stronger?
What thread have you been reading through? The last 10 pages were people complaining about how Mortarion is bad, now people are saying that DG can be quite good. No one has been angry about DG being strong.
If you go to FB the Eldar players in those groups are crying up a storm. I've noticed an Eldar pattern. Not like an oppressively dominant faction that past two editions can't deal with other people actually being strong...
Well it's hard to mingle with the "common rabble" when you've been lording it over from Mount OP for two editions straight.
EDIT: Btw anyone excited at potentially MSUDG units with 3 plasma guns (one on champ, two on normal plaguies) rapid firing at 18" range? DG Havocs might be a thing again.
So just read some of the Facebook posts, couldn't find any Elder players complaining about how OP it was, saw one guy worried about codex creep but that was it (probably didn't sift through enough posts).
However, I did read one post by Warhammer40k that I thought was interesting: they said that contemptors and leviathans with the DEATH GUARD keyword get the legion tactic. So I'm guessing the wording on the tactic they released was a typo.
Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote: There were a small few comments on the Facebook post asking if Lords and Sorcs have DR, but those seem to have all been deleted. GW trying to cover there tracks I'd presume, very bad sign.
It'll be so weird if we get a Death Guard Codex where Lords/Sorcs don't have basic Death Guard rules.
I personally still think that the damage output of plas is unparalleled to any other type of weapon for the points. The only downside is the dying on a 1 it will depend on if we have easy access to auras that allow refills to ones. The S8, extra -1 to armor and static 2 damage is huge.
Dr.Duck wrote: I personally still think that the damage output of plas is unparalleled to any other type of weapon for the points. The only downside is the dying on a 1 it will depend on if we have easy access to auras that allow refills to ones. The S8, extra -1 to armor and static 2 damage is huge.
However, I think blight launchers will be great on units you want to assault with, as it gives you some nice shooting if you want to advance with the unit. I'd probably do blight launchers in a melee charging unit and the plasmas for objective cappers or just general 18" support
With the news of the powers and trait today it has shifted my thinking a bit. I'm now leaning more toward Rhino Rush DG with heavy shooting from 18" out and deep-striking Terminators/Sorcs.
Actually, havocs with plasma guns are cheaper, but they are alot more fragile. Plague marines with plasma guns are more expensive, but are more likely to last longer.
Also, DG with plasma can load up with some cheapish melee weapons on the non plasma guys to deal with the inevitable charges.
I also admit the CT makes me feel better about using my existing plasma PM, though I still expect I'll use blight launcher units as well, particularly if our sarge gets he ability to equip a couple additional options such as the blight launcher which I'm really hoping for.
I think it depends on the army list. Would an opponent really want to charge into a 5 man squad of plasma plague marines? They don't do much melee damage, but they are a chore to kill. Wouldn't there be better targets?
Also, if you are bubble wrapping your army with pox walkers, they will need to get through the pox walker screen first before they can charge your plague marines. (And nowadays most good armies have some kind of bubble wrap).
Also, would an opposing army really want to get up close and personal with a DG army? Seems like that would be playing to its strengths.
So a unit of 14 Plague Marines armed with 2 Blight Launchers, 2 flails, 2 maces+axes, 7 axes and a champ with a fist and plasma gun comes to 395pts if I did the math right. That's not too bad when you chuck that behind a blob of 40 pox walkers (I'm fairly certain it'll happen in the Dex), and spend a CP to make the marines untargetable as they march up the table with a bell guy. Chuck the +1T power on the pox walkers for extra bullet sponging
If I wanted to go plasma spam with DG, I would go 6 squads of 5 man 3 plasma gun squads behind a blob of 40 pox walkers with a Daemon Prince right in the centre to give them rerolls to hit on a 1. So, thats 18 plasma guns on a very resilient platform which are shooting out 36 plasma shots consistently at range 18 inches every turn.
And I would rely on the pox walkers to keep dedicated melee way, and the Daemon Prince to counter charge any dangerous melee that got too close. I am not sure I want to take a squad and equip it with both ranged and melee special weapons. If you look at Chosen, nobody ever equips out a chosen squad like that even though the option is definitely there.
If you want to equip the plague marine squad for mostly CC, then I feel that dedicated melee units don't waste too much time shooting, they just want to get delivered to CC range as soon as possible and charge in. In your example, you are spending 395 points, plus another 240 points on the pox walker screen for the sake of having 2 blight launchers and 1 plasma gun to shoot at range... Definitely not worth it. Your big squad won't be able to charge anything worthwhile because its stuck behind the slow moving pox walkers.
I dont see a good way to use our chapter tactic on PM to be honest. Only 2 special range weapon really kills a spamming approach. I can see why people like the plasma route but I prefer double blight launcher if I would go for range shooting. With the amount of buffs we have their dmg output is not only on par with plas but you dont need to have a reroll character nearby just to avoid supercharge suicide.
You don't have to supercharge Plasma, you know...
Plague Marines with either 3plas or 2BL and 1 plas is probably the way to go for me. 18" Plasma is awesome. But 24" BL are also I still don't see the CC usefulness of them, got Spawn, Brutes, Termis and Possessed for that. But we'll see what stratagems bring.
Right. You dont have to supercharge. But in that case there is no reason to take plas over blight since we got a lot of tools to buff and debuff. Maybe one have to think about making those bolters work^^
Iago40k wrote: I dont see a good way to use our chapter tactic on PM to be honest. Only 2 special range weapon really kills a spamming approach. I can see why people like the plasma route but I prefer double blight launcher if I would go for range shooting. With the amount of buffs we have their dmg output is not only on par with plas but you dont need to have a reroll character nearby just to avoid supercharge suicide.
.
Its 3 special weapons, not two. The Plague Marine Champion is allowed to replace his bolt gun with a plasma gun specifically.
I think 3 guys using plasma out of a group of 5 is a very decent number to have. The other two is abalative wounds. Now, the opponent has to think, if he tries to shoot that squad, he needs to kill off two tough normal plague marines before he starts to get to any of the plasma guys. And like what the above poster said, you don't have to overcharge if you don't want to risk rolling a 1. And well, like I said earlier, assuming the daemon prince aura doesn't change, then we have a character that helps us rerolls 1 already. (Or just use a normal chaos lord instead of a lord of contagion). The key thing is, its good to have that option. What if you have a big imperial knight that is on 4 wounds left? I would risk overcharging my plasma squads to kill it off then.
I think blight launcher and plasma gun both have their strengths are weaknesses. If you suddenly need to destroy a wounded imperial knight, then you would be glad you are using plasma guns which can overcharge to Str 8 rather than str 6 blight launchers. If you want to keep on moving at a good speed, so you want to advance move every turn, then blight launchers are better.
I dont disqualify plasma per se. Its just that 5 PM with 3 plas are pretty expensive for what you get compared to lets say elysian plas drop. Now is that a fair comparison? Maybe not. I am just looking for most bang for points here.
I'm mostly just looking for what will look cool on the table, and a big unit of cc Plague Marines marching up behind a horde of zombies lead by Mortarion sounds cool haha. I'm not the best competitive player. Mainly the Blight Launchers were chucked in there for some shooting, as they can shoot after advancing without penalty and the plasma on the sergeant just cos my model has it haha
jamesterjlrb wrote: Does anyone think we're likely to get any more info today (Friday) or will it just be some page pics with preorders and then wait a week for the book?
Well, the mechanicus book goes up for pre-order next Saturday I'm pretty sure, so they'll probably do some posts about that next week. So we'll either get some more info tonight or tomorrow most likely. If not, sometime during the week between the mechanicus info. Cos they mentioned that they'll be talking about the termies in the last post they did, "very soon."
jamesterjlrb wrote: Does anyone think we're likely to get any more info today (Friday) or will it just be some page pics with preorders and then wait a week for the book?
Most (all?) of the last Codex preorder dates were coinciding with GW's NDA ending and people being able to post early Codex reviews on Friday/Saturday. I do not intend to drum up false hope. But it is likely that we will see videos of the DG book before release, if not tomorrow 10am UK time (in about 24h), when european preorders go up. Fingers crossed
jamesterjlrb wrote: Does anyone think we're likely to get any more info today (Friday) or will it just be some page pics with preorders and then wait a week for the book?
Most (all?) of the last Codex preorder dates were coinciding with GW's NDA ending and people being able to post early Codex reviews on Friday/Saturday. I do not intend to drum up false hope. But it is likely that we will see videos of the DG book before release, if not tomorrow 10am UK time (in about 24h), when european preorders go up. Fingers crossed
Well let's hope this is the case. full hype mode will be engaged
rippounet wrote: Damn, the absence of havocs is really bumming me out. I've got two units I painted 6 months ago. I thought the days when GW made you shelve some miniatures were over for some reason...
Yeah, I am a bit bummed about this as well. I always pictured my death guard loaded with heavy weapons much like their HH version.
Looks like they were posted at times between 2300 and just past midnight UTC on friday night/ saturday morning of the preorder. NDA expiry is probably midnight uk time (so BST atm).
rippounet wrote: Damn, the absence of havocs is really bumming me out. I've got two units I painted 6 months ago. I thought the days when GW made you shelve some miniatures were over for some reason...
Yeah, I am a bit bummed about this as well. I always pictured my death guard loaded with heavy weapons much like their HH version.
I suppose there is some good news?
Autocannons can probably substitute for the Heavy Flamer-esque Plague Spewer that Plague Marines can take in terms of appearance.
And Heavy Bolters are sort of convenient counts-as Blight Launchers.
Qlanth wrote: So.... what is everyone thinking about release dates for the new stuff we haven't seen yet?
Next week will be Ad Mech reveals and preorders on the 16th and releases on the 23rd.
Do you suppose we'll see previews dropping for the new tank+characters on 9/24?
I think that would be the latest, depends what the admech preorders are. I wonder if they originally planned to release admech and DG together like CSM and GK but something about how that went (maybe sales) have made them change their minds. Would explain the WD typo. But if Admech is just book, dice, cards and Cawl that may not be enough for a release and so DG round 2 might be as early as next week for preorder. Seems unlikely though as then DG and admech release would be fighting, more likely some filler bits next week with AM and as you say a reveal on the 24th for DG wave 2.
I'm not privy to more information. But based on the past 12 new-format WDs, the magazine has not shown everything that will be released. The month's major release is often split between two issues. So we only got to see the first week or two of it to prevent leaks etc.
That AdMech will be up for preorder on the 16th and there isnt more of DG shown does not rule out Death Guard preorders on the saturdays after the 9th.
I recommend not to jump to conclusions based on September WD. We dont know if there will be a break, there is some odd wording regarding the DG release like 'over the next months' and such, so it could be that there will be a week without DG...
But I seriously doubt GW will sell the Codex on the 16th, without offering all the units for preorder when people are interested in buying them. We had this situation before, and with their online promotion WD has not been the first to preview stuff in a long while.
That all being said I think we can assume with confidence that there will be further images of all the new releases (that are coming out in the next few weeks) in the codex, as they wouldn't not use pics in a codex to mantain secrecy for a couple of weeks. As we should get a review of the dex tonight, we should therefore get a very good idea of all the new kits in the next 24 hours.
jamesterjlrb wrote: That all being said I think we can assume with confidence that there will be further images of all the new releases (that are coming out in the next few weeks) in the codex, as they wouldn't not use pics in a codex to mantain secrecy for a couple of weeks. As we should get a review of the dex tonight, we should therefore get a very good idea of all the new kits in the next 24 hours.
For sure. It is dawning on me that we'll probably have every single question answered except "When?" once those reviews come out.
The reviews on the CSM codex didn't seem have any holds barred. Entire statlines and points values, special rules, etc, were all revealed by everyone.
So the mystery will probably be over once the reviews drop. Kind of sad really! I love the mystery!
I agree with the Codex showing the upcoming stuff. Though careful with the 24h. There may be a review video tomorrow - but maybe not but later in the following week.
There may also be a glimpse at rules in the preview eBook samples which will be online tomorrow.
With stuff like Nurglings and Plague Bearers basically confirmed to be in the codex can anybody who is familiar with those units explain what their roles are? Why would I take Plague Bearers over Poxwalkers? Or, what are Nurglings good at?
I've never played any Daemons before so I'm just curious.
aracersss wrote: not sure if entirely true but found this in 4chan
Mortarion
Foulstench Flatullent (Back canister guy)
Toxicspew Injectocary (Apothecary)
Festulent Reckoner (Tallyman)
Plaguecrawler Pusmortar (Tank)
Plaguecrawler Gutslimer (Alt build for tank)
Malaisereaper Deathshrouds (Terminators)
Festermaggot Deathshrouds (alt build for Terminators)
Slimegarden Plaguesower (40k version of snail man)
[/quote[
I thought it was confirmed the snail wasn't going to have 40k rules? Also if they did they'd surely have kept the same name like epidemius. And given the only current way to buy the miniature would be via an AoS box that makes little sense. So not convinced.
Yeah the 4 chan thing is busted. While we have two terminators we know they don't use the same kit, some names which are confirmed are changed their like plagueburst crawler, snail man probably won't be, and they named one "foul stench flatulent"
Qlanth wrote: With stuff like Nurglings and Plague Bearers basically confirmed to be in the codex can anybody who is familiar with those units explain what their roles are? Why would I take Plague Bearers over Poxwalkers? Or, what are Nurglings good at?
I've never played any Daemons before so I'm just curious.
Nurglings can infiltrate and are kinda hard to remove with small arms fire. Their multiwound nature, low toughness, and lack of a DR save against anything with a danage higher than one means they die easily to any heavier weapon. They basically work as a distraction for your enemy turn one, hopefully eating some shots from the larger and heavier guns to take pressure off your tanks and similar. Pretty tough for their cost but no real offensive power means enemies that don't need to advance can mostly ignore them though, just let them get stuck into their screening unit and neither side will do much.
Plague bearers fulfill a virtually identical role to poxwalkers, paying an extra ppm (maybe 2 if poxwalkers get the expected price cut) for an extra point of toughness and a 5+ inv save on top of DR. They also are a little better offensively and gain a -1 to all incoming attacks when taken in large numbers (20+), but lack fearless so you probably won't want to. If poxwalkers stay at 6ppm these might be a better choice over cultists, if you can spare a detachment for them. Arguably might be better than 5ppm poxwalkers after the recent price cut (I forgot they went down to 7ppm). They can also be summoned in mid game if needed (with all the issues that come with summoning).
Plague drones are fast (for nurgle, 10") melee units with lots of melee attacks and some short range shooting, as well as nurgle brand toughness and the fly keyword. Offers something DG lacks: a biker equivalent, albeit more melee focused. Probably one of the choices most likely to be used in DG, simply because we have a dearth of fast melee units (or fast units in general), the plague drone being the only other example of note.
Lastly is the beast of nurgle. If you ever found yourself saying "I'd really like to use chaos spawn, but they just don't feel useless enough" then this is the unit for you. It's seriously bad, to the point I'd highly recommend ignoring unless it gets a massive point decease.
Of course, we also have to compare these options to what the other legions can offer as allies, assuming we can't freely take them in a DG detachment. As an allied detachment, most legions offer us far more utility than these currently seem to, and I am not a fan of demonic summoning this edition. It's hard to say exactly what we need, but my bet seems to be alpha strike and mobility, the hammer for our anvil. Nurgle demons are, mostly, just more anvil.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: I am going to buy three Plague Crawlers and name them the "Furious Fartillery Fusillade"
What's weird is that fart jokes usually rely on being gross, yet here are infinitely more tasteful than what the unit actually canonically does. It gives my brain a weird tingle.
What does the Plague Crawlers? The new Drone is pretty ugly, collecting mud, blood and other... corpse rest from the ground to spit them like a flamethrower of... poop.
I'm assuming it's like the old nurgle demon engines from epic, where it's literally firing ground down corpses marinated in plague juice and filth as artillery.
Lastly is the beast of nurgle. If you ever found yourself saying "I'd really like to use chaos spawn, but they just don't feel useless enough" then this is the unit for you. It's seriously bad, to the point I'd highly recommend ignoring unless it gets a massive point decease.
This is so true and perfect. I continue to be amazed by how useless of a unit listing Beasts of Nurgle are. Even GW seems to acknowledge it, they weren't even included as part of the Nurgle Daemon summoning stratagem in the last Konor mission.
My hope is that the apothecary guy gives an aura of +1 to FNP rolls for nearby infantry and that the tallyman guy gives benefits based on enemy units killed, either by giving a bonus aura or by giving command points.
Virules wrote: My hope is that the apothecary guy gives an aura of +1 to FNP rolls for nearby infantry and that the tallyman guy gives benefits based on enemy units killed, either by giving a bonus aura or by giving command points.
I think the apothecary has a lot of potential, ice he has a solid aura our army will do much better. I'm quite curious to see what the others will do, assuming the bottle dude isn't an apothecary he could be quite unique. Same with tally man.
Yeah. As other people have pointed out, Death Guard pay heavy points for durable units, but it's more points efficient to get lots of cheap models and to just give them really powerful auras (commisars, waaaugh banner, ghazkull, etc.). And even space marines are cheaper with better auras (Gullimen, etc.).
Bluebeard wrote: Ok thank you! I wasn't able to spot the apothecary but the canister guy looks extremely cool.
Look a few centimeters upwards from the red barrels at the bottom of the photo. There is a hooded guy (red hood like the Deathshroud Terminators) in MkIII power armour with an Apothecary backpack and other medical tools.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: I was reading through the Death Guard part of the White Dwarf and couldn't help but notice they mention a stratagem called Blight Bombardment.
I'm betting on that being similar to the other strategems regarding vindis or artillery
Oh neat yeah I'd guess you are correct. That'll be handy I bet.
...got my morty and just a plain non-fancy codex pre-ordered
phew...that was tough, but I did it, I actually utilised willpower...I really didn't think I'd be able to avoid getting the big fancy collectors edition codex this time, but I managed - no fancy codex, no cool dice, no cards, no plague brethren bundle bollocks, only what I actually "needed" - I'm almost proud of myself
yup, just looks to be in the bundle, at least for now...might come up separately later sometime?...or might just be an "collectors bundle exclusive" thing...which would suck, but, would be very "GW"...
bubber wrote: just managed to pre-order mine on the GW website despite being in the UK!
Thanks for the heads up, that is a surprise. I just bought the LE deluxe bundle and the 3-man with art card bundle. Everything else I will buy at discount at local stores.
Huge waste of money ($300 with tax), and now I have to get all the minis including Morty, but hey, I waited 6 years for this moment...
bubber wrote: just managed to pre-order mine on the GW website despite being in the UK!
Thanks for the heads up, that is a surprise. I just bought the LE deluxe bundle and the 3-man with art card bundle. Everything else I will buy at discount at local stores.
Huge waste of money ($300 with tax), and now I have to get all the minis including Morty, but hey, I waited 6 years for this moment...
bubber wrote: just managed to pre-order mine on the GW website despite being in the UK!
Thanks for the heads up, that is a surprise. I just bought the LE deluxe bundle and the 3-man with art card bundle. Everything else I will buy at discount at local stores.
Huge waste of money ($300 with tax), and now I have to get all the minis including Morty, but hey, I waited 6 years for this moment...
Same here! Though I didn't go for the 3-man bundle, just can't do it... With the rest of the DG releases, I'll probably wait till most of the sets are out, and do one big order for everything.
I've been a huge plague marine fan from when they updated them for 2nd ed. in the mid-ninties. (not that I don't love those Rogue Trader RoC ones of course) And I really enjoyed playing them up through 5th ed. Then there were the bad times/editions. Now with 8th, we FINALLY get our own codex!
This AND Genestealer Cults all in one year! (They came out in 7th last Sept, and 'hopefully' the 8th ed. codex will be out within a year) I think GW REALLY want's me back as a fan!
Let's see, what else is on my list...?
Zoats. Eldar Exodites. Vulkan*
Looking at the Limited Edition version they have the stack of psychic power cards, the top one says 'Curse of the Leper', really interested to see what that does
Galas wrote: I don't understand why Mortarion is more expensive than Magnus being much smaller and having just 2 sprues and not 3 but... great model nonetheless.
Because he came out after Magnus, and this is the way GW does price rises these day.
For those complaining about the dice...order some custom dice of your own. Chessex (despite having a website from the 1980's) is excellent to deal with. I have customized dice for my Nurgle-influenced Chaos Space Marines. Thirty dice w/ custom 6's cost me around $34 shipped. They're 16mm, and I ordered two opposing colours (for special weapons/etc.).
It's exceptionally easy to do. I have similar dice for my Eldar craftworld.
ZoBo wrote: ...starting to feel like I was the only one here with any willpower to resist the mighty new shinies
I'm avoiding the dice because they look like a pain to read myself.
Also, no reviews yet? Anyone heard anything from the normal sites about when one might come?
I believe one of the requirements for those who get a review copy of the codex is that they can't post their review until preorders are up. We should be seeing the reviews soon.
oh, looks like GW's web department is having quite the time frantically pressing assorted buttons ...so, going by the re-updated NZ store, yeah, the dice, cards, and normal collectors ed. codex are available separately
...and all the death guard stuff isn't on the Aus webstore now (I assume very temporarily)...but I already preordered...hopefully that'll still be fine? :/ ...meh, should be, right?
Elbows wrote: For those complaining about the dice...order some custom dice of your own. Chessex (despite having a website from the 1980's) is excellent to deal with. I have customized dice for my Nurgle-influenced Chaos Space Marines. Thirty dice w/ custom 6's cost me around $34 shipped. They're 16mm, and I ordered two opposing colours (for special weapons/etc.).
It's exceptionally easy to do. I have similar dice for my Eldar craftworld.
Is it possible to get less rounded corners than what is normal for cheesed?
Tiberius501 wrote: Pre-orders generally go up in about an hour from now right?
Also, those dice look incredible!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wait, the pre-order isn't up in the website for me! How is everyone pre-ordering already?
it went up on the NZ site at their usual time, then rolled out everywhere for a couple of hours or so...guess someone pressed the wrong button they've been down again everywhere but NZ for the past hour or so, but a couple of us got in while we could...and hopefully there won't be any dramas with our orders :/ ...should be up again soon in Aus, and around the normal times for everywhere else...
Elbows wrote: For those complaining about the dice...order some custom dice of your own. Chessex (despite having a website from the 1980's) is excellent to deal with. I have customized dice for my Nurgle-influenced Chaos Space Marines. Thirty dice w/ custom 6's cost me around $34 shipped. They're 16mm, and I ordered two opposing colours (for special weapons/etc.).
It's exceptionally easy to do. I have similar dice for my Eldar craftworld.
Is it possible to get less rounded corners than what is normal for cheesed?
Not per Chessex I don't imagine - may be some other options. There are companies who do custom casino dice, but I baulk to imagine the prices that might involve.
Tiberius501 wrote: Pre-orders generally go up in about an hour from now right?
Also, those dice look incredible!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wait, the pre-order isn't up in the website for me! How is everyone pre-ordering already?
it went up on the NZ site at their usual time, then rolled out everywhere for a couple of hours or so...guess someone pressed the wrong button they've been down again everywhere but NZ for the past hour or so, but a couple of us got in while we could...and hopefully there won't be any dramas with our orders :/ ...should be up again soon in Aus, and around the normal times for everywhere else...
Ah cool, I was a little worried there for a sec
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ye boiz! Codex collection with dice and cards all pre-ordered along with the glory that is Mortarion! Somehow I managed to stop myself from buying the crazy $400 edition. Probably because I'd of gone bankrupt
Anyone looking for the dice all by themselves still, the NZ site has the dice up all by themselves. So if you're ordering on other sections of the world you may want to just wait for them to fix the error and put them up there too.
Is that figure with the scythe in almost the direct center of the picture, to the left of the big vehicle, the new Typhus? He has the central horn and the scythe, and his backpack looks larger and more hive-like than the other terminators.
I rather really like those dice. Most likely not super balanced, but very cool and don't look too bad to read. Probably better than the Marine dice and Definitely better than the Tzeench ones.
Way better looking than the super-bright paint job.
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AduroT wrote: I rather really like those dice. Most likely not super balanced, but very cool and don't look too bad to read. Probably better than the Marine dice and Definitely better than the Tzeench ones.
TBF indented pips on a normal d6 unbalance them somewhat---something along the lines of a 3% improvement in average rolls thanks to the 1 side being a bit heavier than the 6.
Aww, the one time I'm tempted by special dice I miss the erronous early opportunity to order.
Still waiting for the release of sprue pics for the Plague Marine kit to judge what kitsit can best be bashed with and how posable the Marines will be before my hype can reach critical levels.
Preorders up in the UK. I was going to get the limited codex with the tokens but £95 more for a different cover and some tokens no thanks my brain isn't THAT addled by Nurgles Rot.
Digital samples are up on the iStore. I havent read both yet. Looks like they focus on fluff and artwork like with previous codices. Some interesting read though and they arent brief.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The full unit list is shown on the content page, Codex: DG standard edition on the iStore. I cannot upload pics atm though
Automatically Appended Next Post: I will type the previously unknown entries instead
Daemon Prince of Nurgle
Chaos Lord
Chaos Lord in Terminator armour
Sorcerer
Socerer in Terminator armour
Plague Surgeon
Deathshroud Terminators
Blightlord Terminators
Beasts of Nurgle
Myphitic Blight-Haulers
Nurglings
Plague Drones
Plaguebearers
Everything expected like Defilers, Chaos Cultists and the previously mentioned like the Biologus are in the book.
How much cost the world? This much? So, just a small codex for me please.
The 360° view of Morty made it final to me, that I won´t invest in him. If he is ruleswise the thing to play, I will look for a proxy.
The dice look really hard to read, I would wash them lightly with Agrax, to distinguish the pimples better. But I think they are rigged. Somebody has to roll the dice 100 times, so we can get the average outcome.
Warhams-77 wrote: Digital samples are up on the iStore. I havent read both yet. Looks like they focus on fluff and artwork like with previous codices. Some interesting read though and they arent brief.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The full unit list is shown on the content page, Codex: DG standard edition on the iStore. I cannot upload pics atm though
Automatically Appended Next Post: I will type the previously unknown entries instead
Daemon Prince of Nurgle
Chaos Lord
Chaos Lord in Terminator armour
Sorcerer
Socerer in Terminator armour
Plague Surgeon
Deathshroud Terminators
Blightlord Terminators
Beasts of Nurgle
Myphitic Blight-Haulers
Nurglings
Plague Drones
Plaguebearers
Everything expected like Defilers, Chaos Cultists and the previously mentioned like the Biologus are in the book.
So no GUO, huh. Can you get us the new pts values of Nurgle Daemons?
I'm a bit bummed out that Mortarion really has only five Nurglings. They cram in (un)holy numbers in squad sizes and everything else that's not bolted shut, but the Death Lord can't afford to have a bigger posse?! That and the price are the big letdowns. He seems to be the same size as =I= Artemis, which was less than a third of Mortarion's price.
PS: Buy the dice yes/no? My gf tells me they're butt ugly, I kinda like them if I picture them painted.
I think the size comparison is off on the website. Are 100mm bases that much thinner than 32mm bases? And the 100mm base looks smaller than three of the 32mm bases across.
Here is a size comparison for Mortarion (I matched the bases.) There were also some better pics of the new minis in the sample. At first glance I am very impressed by the terminators.
I got confused in the preordering as apparently there's two collectors editions.
One that costs 65 euros and is basically the codex with different art on the front and a 150 euros one with some goodies.
I thought the goodies were in the 65 one, derp.. bit of a letdown.
65 seems hardly worth it for different cover art. 150 is too much for the goodies imho
They have done a good job with the new Plague Marines too, the models are on par with the FW and 2nd Ed sculpts which have been my favourites so far. I will probably dial back the craziness of the Terminators a bit but having all these parts for conversions is nothing short of amazing
Still not sold on Typhus. Need more angles/a 360 pic of him before I make up my mind. The rest look stunning, I love the Marines and I love the Terminators
I was happy to see a new Typhus until I saw the large baggy nurgling splayed across his torso...in a likely unremovable fashion. Shame as he's been one of the best looking Chaos minis in a long time (his old model at least). That's a real let down. However it does seem that you could easily convert one of the Deathshroud into a "new" Typhus as well. Just hate that they ruined the normal mini like that.
Mayk0l wrote: I got confused in the preordering as apparently there's two collectors editions.
One that costs 65 euros and is basically the codex with different art on the front and a 150 euros one with some goodies.
I thought the goodies were in the 65 one, derp.. bit of a letdown.
65 seems hardly worth it for different cover art. 150 is too much for the goodies imho
So normal codex it is.
The cover art on the standard dex is atrocious imo - I had the hardest time stopping myself from buying the 65 euro one because that..
Elbows wrote: I was happy to see a new Typhus until I saw the large baggy nurgling splayed across his torso...in a likely unremovable fashion. Shame as he's been one of the best looking Chaos minis in a long time (his old model at least). That's a real let down. However it does seem that you could easily convert one of the Deathshroud into a "new" Typhus as well. Just hate that they ruined the normal mini like that.
The old model has a Nurgling at that exact same place, too. As always with GWs Nurgle models the paint job is what ruins it most - probably.
Elbows wrote: I was happy to see a new Typhus until I saw the large baggy nurgling splayed across his torso...in a likely unremovable fashion. Shame as he's been one of the best looking Chaos minis in a long time (his old model at least). That's a real let down. However it does seem that you could easily convert one of the Deathshroud into a "new" Typhus as well. Just hate that they ruined the normal mini like that.
The old model has a Nurgling at that exact same place, too. As always with GWs Nurgle models the paint job is what ruins it most - probably.
You're absolutely right. Something I hadn't noticed - likely because the pose doesn't shout "HEY GUYS CHECK OUT MY SWEET NURGLING!" like the new one. Definitely still prefer this guy.
Man, the new guy - he's as big as Guilliman, isn't he?
I prefer the old one, too. Don't know why they changed his pose - it was very fitting. The new pose... I don't really know what he's doing "Hey guys, hoo hoo, it's me, Typhus, over here! Got my scythe with me!"
Old pose is far superior I think, although the new model still has great details. I'm a little annoyed they changed it, but my annoyances are minor in the grand scheme of things. Still a nice model.
So we have five different characters that use the elite slot, I think that may be more than any other army I know of. And our other terminators are blightlord terminators.
Also, we get blight haulers, whatever those are. Probably the melee drone variant?
SilverAlien wrote: So we have five different characters that use the elite slot, I think that may be more than any other army I know of. And our other terminators are blightlord terminators.
Also, we get blight haulers, whatever those are. Probably the melee drone variant?
Imperial guard spring to mind as having lots of elite chars. Platoon commander, commissar, Three advisors, priest, a couple of special characters etc. Massively increases drop number so the chapter approved rules are really important.
Regarding Typhus I can understand why people prefer one model over the other, but like Kharn I'm glad we have two different poses now. The new Typhus looks like he is conjuring flies and sends them over the battlefield (if that makes sense in english). I like it tbh. I will keep the old model and probably get the new one, too.
redleger wrote: anyone else in America unable to see preorder stuff on the website right now?
It wasn't meant to be up there yesterday.
Preorders in the US are Saturdays; usually by 12:45pm with the header properly changing and "announcing" it by 1pm. Times are in Eastern btw.
Never tried to preorder before as my FLGS always get what I need in anyway. But This morning I woke up wanting to get the collectors edition codex. Didnt know they didnt go live till later in the afternoon.
redleger wrote: anyone else in America unable to see preorder stuff on the website right now?
It wasn't meant to be up there yesterday.
Preorders in the US are Saturdays; usually by 12:45pm with the header properly changing and "announcing" it by 1pm. Times are in Eastern btw.
Never tried to preorder before as my FLGS always get what I need in anyway. But This morning I woke up wanting to get the collectors edition codex. Didnt know they didnt go live till later in the afternoon.
If you're concerned about getting a copy, just start refreshing the "New and Exclusives" page around 11:35am your time.
It's important to go to that specific page as that is where the preorders will go live at.
redleger wrote: anyone else in America unable to see preorder stuff on the website right now?
It wasn't meant to be up there yesterday.
Preorders in the US are Saturdays; usually by 12:45pm with the header properly changing and "announcing" it by 1pm. Times are in Eastern btw.
Never tried to preorder before as my FLGS always get what I need in anyway. But This morning I woke up wanting to get the collectors edition codex. Didnt know they didnt go live till later in the afternoon.
If you're concerned about getting a copy, just start refreshing the "New and Exclusives" page around 11:35am your time.
It's important to go to that specific page as that is where the preorders will go live at.
dan2026 wrote: People complaining about Nurglings brings shame to Grandfather Nurgle.
The more Nurglings the better!
The fact is a lot of people don't care about nurglings and think they make models look stupid. The easier solution to this would have been to do what they normally do - keep nurglings as a little side options on the sprue...that way you appeal to both audiences.
Miniwargaming has there stuff up already if anyone is interested in watching them. The Mortarion video is..actually really bad quality, but eh..they go over everything.
dan2026 wrote: People complaining about Nurglings brings shame to Grandfather Nurgle.
The more Nurglings the better!
The fact is a lot of people don't care about nurglings and think they make models look stupid. The easier solution to this would have been to do what they normally do - keep nurglings as a little side options on the sprue...that way you appeal to both audiences.
Those people are not true Nurgle followers.
Nurglings are the backbone of Nurgles forces and have been since forever.
And they are so damn cute.
dan2026 wrote: People complaining about Nurglings brings shame to Grandfather Nurgle.
The more Nurglings the better!
The fact is a lot of people don't care about nurglings and think they make models look stupid. The easier solution to this would have been to do what they normally do - keep nurglings as a little side options on the sprue...that way you appeal to both audiences.
Those people are not true Nurgle followers.
Nurglings are the backbone of Nurgles forces and have been since forever.
And they are so damn cute.
Don´t forget the flies, mate. I want giant swarms of flies and other critters.
EDIT: This 2 look like garbage marines, literally. I like that.
The terminators are so much cooler than I expected!
The chapters are pretty cool, but not crazy about all the capes and cloaks covering them up. The plague marine with his gasmask melting off his face is amazing.
DHDP has DR.
Nurglings are 18 pts now.
Beast of nurgle make opponents who fall back roll a D6. on 4+ they suffer a mortal wound. Also 5 wounds now. Same pts though
Plague Drones. 34 pts a model(down from 44). 4 wounds now. WOW that's really good.
Plaguebearers are the same.
I took some notes in the Miniwargaming Vid about Mortarion. I will only go into new stuff and not the statline and abilities we've already seen.
The Lantern is 18" Pistol 1 with S8 AP-3 and 3 Damage. It also draws an 18" ''line'' between Morty and the unit he's shooting at, additionally hitting all other units that stand in this line.
Phosphex Bombs are 6" Grenade 2D6 S5 AP-1 D1
Lastly the Lantern has 2 attack modes. The first is called ''Eviscerating Blow" and is Strenght 2x AP-4 and D6 Damage. The second mode is called "Reaping Scythe" and is Strenght User AP-2 and 1 damage but each attack counts as 3. Both modes also count as plague weapons. Lastly he is the Primarch of the DG rerolling Hitroles of 1 for all DG units including himself in 7" and if he dies he explodes on a 4+ dealing D3 Mortal wounds in 7" around him to all Non-Deathguard Units. The rest is as we know it. Please correct me if I heard something wrong
Kind of relieved that the Daemons are getting some points drops. They need them.
Still dislike Nurglings as a choice for...well..anything. Their big appeal is their infiltrate ability...which they can't do if you summon them.
So unless we see some sort of ruling that states Nurglings are A-OK and don't screw us over for Traits etc. my Daemons may be better suited just making a second cheap battalion detachment for more CP.
Better ipad closeups are appreciated - we now see the Terminators hve things like combi-meltas. Looks like those are our normal Terminators. With luck they'll still have access to power fists, chainfists and lightning claws. Though our combi-flamers and heavy flamers are probably going to become the plague versions instead....
That terminator carrying the flail is so gooood..the flail I mean. Too many really nice weapons to use. Kinda sad there's nothing maulerfiend sized to use though. I wanted to add in some conversions I had in progress that were that big and now I'm not sure what I could even use them as. Maybe beasts of nurgle? Last I checked beasts weren't that big though.
Starfarer wrote: Defiler is roughly maulerfiend size. Add some guns to your conversion and run it as a defiler.
I originally planned to make it a soul grinder, but I just don't think the height is there. It's basically a great knarloc with maulerfiend bits all made up to be an enormous rat beast. The guns work though. I already had to have that figured out. I'll see how it chalks up size-wise to a defiler though.
but i guess if you are into that sort of heresy 
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