Kanluwen wrote:
Random thought:
Is it possible that it's a new starter and Orlocks and Van Saar get brought in that way?

It’s probably not impossible, but it’s also possible people are reading too much into/expecting too much out of ‘big news for the Underhive’ here. I expect it’ll be just House of Iron.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Random thought:
Is it possible that it's a new starter and Orlocks and Van Saar get brought in with their new swag that way?

Maybe one part of it is additional weapon frames in plastic for everybody?
So much room for activities!

Wasn't that one of Kill Team's death rattles? New starter box with existing teams.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Random thought:
Is it possible that it's a new starter and Orlocks and Van Saar get brought in that way?

It’s probably not impossible, but it’s also possible people are reading too much into/expecting too much out of ‘big news for the Underhive’ here. I expect it’ll be just House of Iron.

Fair enough. I just don't consider something already announced(albeit unrevealed) to be "big news".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Baxx wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Random thought:
Is it possible that it's a new starter and Orlocks and Van Saar get brought in with their new swag that way?

Maybe one part of it is additional weapon frames in plastic for everybody?
So much room for activities!

Wasn't that one of Kill Team's death rattles? New starter box with existing teams.

It's a bit early to be calling anything "death rattles" for Kill Team. There hasn't been much movement, but that original starter was not staying.

Wow, those upper class ladies look ace!

 His Master's Voice wrote:
The "big things coming to the Underhive" is probably Necromunda PC game releasing on the 8th of September.

OR is it time to start pushing out the Giant Monster models and additional Outlanders?

Three Eyes, Iron Automata, Xenos Abominations, Abomination of Badzone 12, Mutie Gangs, Redemptionists....

We haven't heard about Spyre Hunters, either...

We have an issue though in that the minis from Forgeworld aren't accessible, either, unless you push hard and dig deep.

I see a real issue as well when you are trying to push this card schtick on the game when it is not needed, nor wanted by the player base.

Maybe using them for specific guys, or as added content, but to play the game, they are not needed.

Baxx wrote:
Yeah, you say it exactly right. My first gang was converted from Imperial Guard catachans some 15+ years ago xD It saddens me that a game can't continue to produce and sell plastic without having to push out new rules also.

I'm interested in all the existing minis and any new minis for existing rules. For example separate sculpts for champions, leaders and juves (instead of brand new champion/juve types). I would like to have minis for some of the existing hangers-on, brutes, pets etc, instead of having more rules for new ones. Unfortunately, the great work from many inspired veterans of this game has either halted or dispersed. Main problem is the huge load of existing content and (relatively) rapid release of new content.

The other thing is that you lose an enormous chunk of the playerbase from all communities when a game hits "officially dead" status. That includes everything from local play communities/clubs to online discussion venues. I would speculate that it's significantly over a 50% loss, but there's no way to know.

My feeling re: a lot of your comments is that you secretly want the game to die, so you can start working on and maintaining an Ultimate Undead Fixed Up Edition, and that you're made uncomfortable by a messy living, breathing, mutating gaming system.

Funny you say that. Quite accurate observation. I can accept losing fair-weather players if it can improve the game. It is weird that it has to be this compromise. Btw I would have jumped all on board the new minis even if it was just published with the old rules, or even no rules at all. I do like the core of the new edition, it is fresh and more interesting. More variety even. It's discomforting to know how little effort it would take to make it so much better.

Good to know that you consider new players or people getting interested based on exposure to the newer stuff to be 'fair-weather players'.

 Altruizine wrote:
My feeling re: a lot of your comments is that you secretly want the game to die, so you can start working on and maintaining an Ultimate Undead Fixed Up Edition, and that you're made uncomfortable by a messy living, breathing, mutating gaming system.

You like to read a lot of what isn't there it seems.

 Insane Ivan wrote:
Necromunda is basically the only GW game where GW actively encourages you to convert and build your own models: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/15/build-your-own-bounty-huntergw-homepage-post-3fw-homepage-post-4/

Used to be that people thought that was cool and a good thing. I mean, I certainly don't object to them releasing more models, but I don't understand all the complaints about them having rules for more Bounty Hunters etc. than they have models for. Do you really want them to treat Necromunda like most other GW games, where no model = no rules? I thought people hated that?

There's no reason the two concepts have to be mutually exclusive. The reason that people dislike GW's 'no model/no rules' policy is that they use it as a reason to limit the rules to the (at times seemingly random) options they chose to include with a given kit, rather than making sure that their kits come with all of the appropriate options.

The thing about having rules options in there that don't have corresponding models is that those options then become only accessible to those people who are willing to convert them. That's not a good place for a game to be. Conversely, having models that adequately represent the rules while also encouraging conversions means that the modelers can still do their thing, while the people who just want to buy the right models to play the game are also included.

'No model/no rules' isn't a bad policy. It's a good policy, in fact. It just needs to not be used as an excuse to not release stuff.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:
My feeling re: a lot of your comments is that you secretly want the game to die, so you can start working on and maintaining an Ultimate Undead Fixed Up Edition, and that you're made uncomfortable by a messy living, breathing, mutating gaming system.

You like to read a lot of what isn't there it seems.

You don’t like to read what is there, it seems.

Baxx wrote:
Funny you say that. Quite accurate observation.

I find it revealing that some people call a game "officially dead" the moment it doesn't get constant updates.

We used to call those "evergreen" back in the day. Games that you stock and everyone can play with the same box/book/whatever, that you keep reprinting and stocking.

Of course, you can keep releasing stuff for an evergreen product, but the core of it stays constant, and provides much needed consistency for all players. You can also keep releasing new starters and everything, if you so choose or it's more interesting than a simple reprint (due to contents).

Example of Evergreen games? Well, the main pertinent example would be Battletech, I think; You can take out the box you got in the 80s and go play with some kid that just bough his/hers last week at a FLGS, with maybe one or two rules that might work slightly different. Tell me how that is a problem, please.

And the thing is, you still can release supplemental stuff for those evergreen games! Just take a look, again, at the veritable boatload of supplements Battletech has. Some with very significant tech advances that change the feeling of the game or the way you can play it. But you can still play with everything at the same time, and with everyone that has the game.

Of course, that's not, or ever has been, GW's sales program. And therein lies the problem, and the core of why Necromunda is in the state it is right now.

Baxx wrote:
Funny you say that. Quite accurate observation. I can accept losing fair-weather players if it can improve the game.

As much as I've agreed with your critics of Newcromunda, that's kind of a real toxic attitude there.

No new models from FW. Maybe tomorrow will be other preorder with surprise?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
You don’t like to read what is there, it seems.

I saw what Baxx said. Doesn't make the original statement about the folks in this thread true.

 HudsonD wrote:
As much as I've agreed with your critics of Newcromunda, that's kind of a real toxic attitude there.

If that's so, I apologise.

Article is up on WarCom :
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/21/house-of-blades-new-rules-for-the-escher/



Sweet baby Emperor on stilettos, that new skill is nasty !

So I can turn my Escher into kung fu wuxia heroines flying through close combat? Sign me up.

And is that a D66 strategy table? Was that in House of Chains?

 Graphite wrote:
And is that a D66 strategy table? Was that in House of Chains?

Yes.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
You don’t like to read what is there, it seems.

I saw what Baxx said. Doesn't make the original statement about the folks in this thread true.

So you think the post that quoted Baxx and said "re: your comments" was actually about everyone else in the thread?

Still failing that comprehension check, Has Bad Mental Clarity.

Baxx usually takes an "anti" stance on many of the developments in the Necromunda ecosystem, but he has a massive and thorough store of knowledge, has put in enormous effort to improve the game over the years, and clearly just wants it to get to a state that he finds enjoyable. I love his presence in the thread.

I don't recall if this was in the article or not, but from the Facebooks.

The previewed tactic is particularly flawed. Only applies to a single fighter type (new champ), if you don't have it, tough luck! Played when she takes an enemy Out of Action. Her activation immediately ends, but remain Standing and Active, and can be activated again this round.

I don't know where to begin... I guess each house gang will receive 18 tactics in their book, but if it's going to be this quality, I'd rather have them skip it all together.

 Altruizine wrote:

Baxx usually takes an "anti" stance on many of the developments in the Necromunda ecosystem, but he has a massive and thorough store of knowledge, has put in enormous effort to improve the game over the years, and clearly just wants it to get to a state that he finds enjoyable. I love his presence in the thread.

Cheers. I hope the general quality of the new Escher book will be similar (or best case better) than the Goliath book. It is guaranteed to have some embarrassing mistakes though. There should be an abundance of reviews covering all the new fancy shiny stuff, I would like to complement that by having a more detailed look, particularly filtered on quality.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Graphite wrote:
And is that a D66 strategy table? Was that in House of Chains?

It will be a D18 for tactics and D13 for Escher plots (or a suit in a deck of cards).

 Altruizine wrote:
Has Bad Mental Clarity.

You're adorable.

Hey guys, let's not go there, kindly stay polite and on topic, or so help me I'll have you experience Bij.

 BrookM wrote:
Hey guys, let's not go there, kindly stay polite and on topic, or so help me I'll have you experience Bij.

Yes Captain Kavok!

Isnt that Chancellor Gowron?

Racerguy180 wrote:
Isnt that Chancellor Gowron?

Yes, but that’s not the only Klingon character he played

o I looked it up never played the game so...

Well the new Escher cards sold out in less than an hour on the Oz store.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Well the new Escher cards sold out in less than an hour on the Oz store.

I heard they sold out in less than 20 minutes, GW just never learns do they. If these production runs are so limited they need to be 1 or 2 per person on checkout.

And the Open Hive War and Mortalis cards are direct only, so you have no choice but to get them from GW.

They're still available though, as far as I can see. Ditto for the Ogryn gang cards.

UK store didn't take long for the Escher Cards to vanish either.

Though they have temporary out of stock marker so who knows

Book, Open War and Mortalis cards pre-ordered.

Open War cards sold out on GW UK store. Dang it.

Edit: Also, you would think since they are happy to keep churning out new decks of cards that they would do another run on those Necromunda card sleeves..

Look like the new Escher body might be compatible with the arms from the other kit.

Darn those cards sold out fast. GW really should just hunker down and buy their own card printing machine darn it! Or at least setup so that they can do a second order from overseas because I didn't expect them to go out of stock THAT fast.

 Overread wrote:
GW really should just hunker down and buy their own card printing machine darn it!

It's been mentioned as something for the new warehouse / buildings - along with transfers.

Do my eyes deceive me or do we get an actual discount on the Ogryn Slaves?

Box of two costs €32,50 but the box of six costs €65,-.

 TBD wrote:
Do my eyes deceive me or do we get an actual discount on the Ogryn Slaves?

Box of two costs €32,50 but the box of six costs €65,-.

Yes, but it's a splash release - once it sells out it's gone.

 Overread wrote:
Darn those cards sold out fast. GW really should just hunker down and buy their own card printing machine darn it! Or at least setup so that they can do a second order from overseas because I didn't expect them to go out of stock THAT fast.

Don't know how long it would take them to get a new shipment delivered via their current partner, but a made-to-order wave should surely be manageable.

The card pack sellouts are always extremely disappointing. I finished my race at 10:20 and Escher were already gone by then. Thankfully managed to grab a pack from elsewhere and the direct only card packs from GW store. I’m going to have to start ordering mid-race again...

There are print companies who can do print on demand card packs, they charge an uplift and quality is sometimes occasionally lower than a proper print run but would be better then the current situation.

I would imagine much like the dice, they are made and the company moves on to other projects.
To get another slot when they are booked in advance probably isn’t easy

That said the packs sold out but the book hasn't which suggests that they underprinted on cards. That or the scalpers are buying up card packs like crazy.

Interestingly they’re tagged as “Temporarily out of stock” rather than “No longer available”; perhaps GW have woken up and are going to be doing a follow on run? Or didn’t have as many as they wanted due to supply issues?

I love how they're talking about Outlanders for Necromunda. Meanwhile, with Newcromunda, the 4th go around of the Escher rules have just gone on pre-order, with no Outlanders in sight.

 Overread wrote:
That said the packs sold out but the book hasn't which suggests that they underprinted on cards. That or the scalpers are buying up card packs like crazy.

Webstore limited me to 1 set of each card (not that I attempted to add more - there was a note under each entry).

Of course, that didn't stop people from getting loads of Indomitus boxes, so who knows?

Next book is Orlock, new minis just got previewed.

Puppies! I want those!

Those are nice!

I'm actually going to place an order for a box of Orlocks today, alongside of the Zone Mortalis cards.






"You get two Canids and a bunch of free stuff!" is how the box was described in chat for the previews today.

Well, it is a better box than the last two gang expansion ones.

Not that it was very hard, but there it is.

Interesting that the general tech level of the gangs continues to increase. I like that; it always seemed weird to me that they had access to bionics and plasma cannon but not the other toys the Imperium uses.

That said, I hope that when they do descend into the sump as a setting that the scavvies and whatnot are at the same level that they used to be and we get some proper horde gangs that can take extra bodies to a gang fight.

 Kanluwen wrote:
... alongside of the Zone Mortalis cards.

Be quick about that, or you'll miss out.

Well the dogs look like someone put effort on it. Unlike some rat lizards thingy...

On the other hand, stub pistol and hand flamers... eeww. Also the heads look oversize.

Big guys look alright. Full body harness is cool.

Interesting that both dogs use the same body but with a diffrent head and two repositioned legs.

Only downer out of this reveal is that awful flying stand.

 zedmeister wrote:
Only downer out of this reveal is that awful flying stand.

Since the flying dude's body has the same pose as the non-flying one next to him I think it will be optional.

 zedmeister wrote:
Only downer out of this reveal is that awful flying stand.

If ever there's a time and a place for replacing flight stands with a piece of terrain, it's here.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Only downer out of this reveal is that awful flying stand.

Since the flying dude's body has the same pose as the non-flying one next to him I think it will be optional.

The one who gets tactical rocks for his metal grated floor? That don't even lie flush?
Fantastic.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Only downer out of this reveal is that awful flying stand.

If ever there's a time and a place for replacing flight stands with a piece of terrain, it's here.

Would just place him straight on the base, posed. That stand will cause all sorts of problems for terrain, trying to ambush, hiding, prone, etc.

I’m glad I skipped over the Escher extras today, these guys look great.

Voss wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Only downer out of this reveal is that awful flying stand.

Since the flying dude's body has the same pose as the non-flying one next to him I think it will be optional.

The one who gets tactical rocks for his metal grated floor? That don't even lie flush?
Fantastic.

I mean... It looks like you could just take the tactical rocks off and glue the lad dirctly to the floor.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Only downer out of this reveal is that awful flying stand.

Since the flying dude's body has the same pose as the non-flying one next to him I think it will be optional.

The one who gets tactical rocks for his metal grated floor? That don't even lie flush?
Fantastic.

I mean... It looks like you could just take the tactical rocks off and glue the lad dirctly to the floor.

True. I was just amused at how terrible the latest 'tatical rock' piece looked, and how out-of-place it is.

Eh. It looks less like a rock and more like a wrecked piece of girder.

But yeah, it does look slightly out of place. Still better than another company I can think of.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Interesting that both dogs use the same body but with a diffrent head and two repositioned legs.

It will be the closest side is the body start.
Then you add the head, and the other half torso (And It’s legs) of choice.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
As nice as those Ogryn are.
Even at the current deal of 6 for £50.

I can’t help but think for £52 having one of each Orlock box would give you a lot more for your money.
And a more diverse group to play with options wise

Orlock sprue 2 is cool. I think it brings them from a faction that is boring to a faction that is cool despite not having particularly weird gak (cyberdogs, jetpacks and exosuits aren't very outlandish by today's 40k standards).

I think I'll either glue them to the ground or find some suitable 3d printed smoke exhaust "stands" to support the flyboys.

I've broken way more of those flight stands than I care to admit.

I wonder if that full harness is directly attached to the hammer wielder arms, or if those parts are salvageable to put to use somewhere else.

PSA: Don't use flying stands unless you want to give up a bunch of your cover modifiers for some masochistic reason.

I love the contents of the Orlock box, though. That's the kind of kit I would have looked at as a kid and drooled over, making up backstories for every character in it. Quite a lot of variety for a small collection of models.

Well those look cool as hell, and will even blend with my metal Orlocks.

But why jump packs? Doesn't exactly scream "miners with bikes"

 Graphite wrote:
Well those look cool as hell, and will even blend with my metal Orlocks.

But why jump packs? Doesn't exactly scream "miners with bikes"

I mean, neither do automatic weapons. But when your mining concern turns into a paramilitary force you make some adjustments.

 Graphite wrote:
Well those look cool as hell, and will even blend with my metal Orlocks.

But why jump packs? Doesn't exactly scream "miners with bikes"

I dunno, being able to leap from vehicle to vehicle to defend the convoy from ash waste marauders or scavvies doesn’t sound beyond the realm of possibilitity

The Underhive is a vast place. Full of huge areas with vaulted (crumbling) ceilings; deep pits; huge chasms etc... Jump packs certainly make a lot of sense in the setting. Along with zip-wires and such.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/22/pre-order-today-underhive-blades-and-tiny-blood-bowl-terrors/

Escher Death-maidens and Wyld Runners and Ogryns are now up for Pre-Order.

I suppose getting to parts of open cast mines makes sense too, just not what I expected from a background perspective.

From a game perspective, the dual pistols and high speed go right with the close range shooting theme.

 Graphite wrote:
I suppose getting to parts of open cast mines makes sense too, just not what I expected from a background perspective.

From a game perspective, the dual pistols and high speed go right with the close range shooting theme.

In the background, I don’t think the gangers are the actual miners. They’re more the guards who protect the mines and convoys.

really hate how they put out a new box for a gang then it gets another gang book. I already have so many from the last time they did this before consolidating them into 2 books, and now this all over again.

What a pain, I wish GW would get their stuff together or atleast go to their main followers website and see what they have to do to keep the game alive.

angel of death 007 wrote:
really hate how they put out a new box for a gang then it gets another gang book. I already have so many from the last time they did this before consolidating them into 2 books, and now this all over again.

What a pain, I wish GW would get their stuff together or atleast go to their main followers website and see what they have to do to keep the game alive.

I like to think of it more as the game finally getting into its stride. House of Chains was a fantastic book, filled with lore and thematic rules. Far better than earlier efforts. It sucks for early adopters to see the previous stuff invalidated though.

I think GW started Necromunda as an experiment and simply released it in phases so that at any stage they could "stop" and the game would be "completed". At that stage it was more "boardgame" than "wargame" in GW's style of production.

Clearly sales have been good enough that they've changed their approach. Now they are going for a more wargame style approach with each "Gang" being treated like an army - with a lore and stats book like a codex or battletome. It sucks for early adopters; but basically the game has evolved very quickly from humble to rather grand status.

These books are a huge step - chock full of faction lore and stats. They set the stage for far more diverse model ranges and forces within the setting. Heck it would not surprise me if we saw each core faction getting a second wave of regular ganger models; perhaps bringing many of the currently Forgeworld Only weapons into plastic.

 Overread wrote:
I think GW started Necromunda as an experiment and simply released it in phases so that at any stage they could "stop" and the game would be "completed". At that stage it was more "boardgame" than "wargame" in GW's style of production.

The lead designer has said similar in interviews - it was originally intended to be a stand-alone box game, but then scale creep happened The Zone Mortalis stuff was added as an afterthought, and he'd left GW by that point.
The phasing thing seems to be Specialist Games current mode of operation - a game will get a book and a couple of kits every quarter as long as they keep selling.

Aye, its a positive step - its GW being cautious, but at the same time its clearly working well for them and for us. Plus by having continual releases it keeps the marketing attention on the game and stops gamers going into shut-down mode of "Oh nothing new so its being dropped" thinking.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Graphite wrote:
I suppose getting to parts of open cast mines makes sense too, just not what I expected from a background perspective.

From a game perspective, the dual pistols and high speed go right with the close range shooting theme.

In the background, I don’t think the gangers are the actual miners. They’re more the guards who protect the mines and convoys.

We don't know for sure - currently the gangers are all picked by gang leaders, the Orlock equivalent of Knights, from the drudging masses working the pits, the ore sorting lines and the docking bays of the Spiderpoints. Most Orlocks are little more than serfs, hoping to catch a gangs' attention.

(This might change in HoI, but that's relatively new anyway - previously the Orlock background was "their fortune his built on iron deposits")

It's actually something I've found a bit odd in the new Necromunda background. In the case of the other houses, you can make a reasonable argument that the toiling masses of indentured workers in a given factory aren't OF a particular house, just OWNED by it, with finance provided by the noble houses who are forbidden from owning below the wall. There probably aren't factories staffed by beaten down Escher helots, grabbing a couple of hours sleep below a bench and with the overseer keeping an eye on the Deathclock to work out how many to execute to increase productivity. After all, Escher parthenogenesis isn't going to come for free, and why waste it on slaves? Goliath are bred for very highly specialised labour which most humans can't even survive. Van Saar must spend a fortune on not dieing, and 40 still seems to be old age. Can you imagine Delaque doing an honest days work?

So Cawdor is one outlier, who seem to have massive manpower by taking everyone who nobody else wants, but a truly awful manufacturing base.

So lots, and lots, of people on Necromunda aren't going to be from any house.

And then there's Orlock, who seem to do a lot of this stuff in house and be both the masters and the slaves all under one roof. That seems to be what makes them odd compared to other houses. Looking forward to the book to see if it expands on that.

Tldr; Yes the gangers are ex-miners

This approach has some negative consequences but fortunately they negative stuff is mainly related to the past aspects of the game and not the future, and if they're going to screw tone of those dimensions, I suppose the past is obviously the better choice of those two.

 Graphite wrote:

It's actually something I've found a bit odd in the new Necromunda background. In the case of the other houses, you can make a reasonable argument that the toiling masses of indentured workers in a given factory aren't OF a particular house, just OWNED by it, with finance provided by the noble houses who are forbidden from owning below the wall. There probably aren't factories staffed by beaten down Escher helots, grabbing a couple of hours sleep below a bench and with the overseer keeping an eye on the Deathclock to work out how many to execute to increase productivity. After all, Escher parthenogenesis isn't going to come for free, and why waste it on slaves? Goliath are bred for very highly specialised labour which most humans can't even survive. Van Saar must spend a fortune on not dieing, and 40 still seems to be old age. Can you imagine Delaque doing an honest days work?

So Cawdor is one outlier, who seem to have massive manpower by taking everyone who nobody else wants, but a truly awful manufacturing base.

So lots, and lots, of people on Necromunda aren't going to be from any house.

And then there's Orlock, who seem to do a lot of this stuff in house and be both the masters and the slaves all under one roof. That seems to be what makes them odd compared to other houses. Looking forward to the book to see if it expands on that.

Tldr; Yes the gangers are ex-miners

That's the not the impression I got from the Necromunda main rulebook. It portrays the Houses as essentially nations with their own cultures. Gangers are those individuals that stood out enough to be picked out from the unremarkable toiling masses, and the gangs engage in a proxy war between the Houses in the Underhive, since open warfare is forbidden within the main hive city due to the disruption it would case.

Although the populations of Goliath, Escher, and Van Saar may be reliant on various chemicals and medications for their survival, I don't get the sense that they are so expensive as to be prohibitive or restricted to a specific class. The Houses probably transact in bulk quantities with each other. The upper class of each House probably get more refined or specific treatments that are superior but the basic stuff seems available enough to keep each House alive.

So although the stereotypical Goliath is a muscle bound hulk, that does not mean there cannot be a Goliath doc (and in fact the House of Chains book even says there are such). They just aren't the kind of Goliath that gets the limelight in games. So are there Delaques working away in a forge? I'd say yes, but they don't do it anywhere near as well as a Goliath, and these are not the kinds of Delaques that would appear in games.

Hopefully the Death-Maiden will have an option to take a Stiletto Sword, as the Sword + Combat Virtuoso will make her quite the painful enemy to face.

beast_gts wrote:
The lead designer has said similar in interviews - it was originally intended to be a stand-alone box game, but then scale creep happened The Zone Mortalis stuff was added as an afterthought, and he'd left GW by that point.

I don't believe for a second that GW intended Newcromunda to be a one-and-done box, with only two of the 6 main gangs.

Well that's 2 boxes of Ogryn incoming for my IG. SO MUCH better than the Ogryn/Bullgryn box.

To keep things simple I think I won't even worry about shields (unless the Enforcer Shields look good on them). The sheer amount of cyber stuff on them explains the 3+ save I think.



From the sprue pic it does seem there's only 2 arms per side (plus the 'e's 'armless option) which is disappointing. But at least the wrench hand is a separate bit so if you have weapon hands from the fantasy ogre kit it's easy to swap them in.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
The lead designer has said similar in interviews - it was originally intended to be a stand-alone box game, but then scale creep happened The Zone Mortalis stuff was added as an afterthought, and he'd left GW by that point.

I don't believe for a second that GW intended Newcromunda to be a one-and-done box, with only two of the 6 main gangs.

Probably not GW's intention but more likely that guy intention, because he's a freelance and only get paid to write rule for that box. Stuff got greenlight for a full "season" before their fate was decided, no way GW want it to be a "one and done" box game.

Iracundus wrote:

 Graphite wrote:


Tldr; Yes the gangers are ex-miners

That's the not the impression I got from the Necromunda main rulebook. It portrays the Houses as essentially nations with their own cultures. Gangers are those individuals that stood out enough to be picked out from the unremarkable toiling masses, and the gangs engage in a proxy war between the Houses in the Underhive, since open warfare is forbidden within the main hive city due to the disruption it would case.

Although the populations of Goliath, Escher, and Van Saar may be reliant on various chemicals and medications for their survival, I don't get the sense that they are so expensive as to be prohibitive or restricted to a specific class. The Houses probably transact in bulk quantities with each other. The upper class of each House probably get more refined or specific treatments that are superior but the basic stuff seems available enough to keep each House alive.

So although the stereotypical Goliath is a muscle bound hulk, that does not mean there cannot be a Goliath doc (and in fact the House of Chains book even says there are such). They just aren't the kind of Goliath that gets the limelight in games. So are there Delaques working away in a forge? I'd say yes, but they don't do it anywhere near as well as a Goliath, and these are not the kinds of Delaques that would appear in games.

It wasn't the impression I got from the base rulebook either, and certainly not from old Necromunda. It's more from things like the Guild of Slaves (who are they selling these factories full of slaves to? Who are they buying them from?) The Corpse Grinders, pre-khorne, who work for the Corpse Guild. But isn't that Cawdor's gig?

Plus this
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/16/apocrypha-necromundus-hive-cityfw-homepage-post-2/

"An estimated 5 to 10 billion people live and work within Hive City. These range from clanners serving one of the great Clan Houses to the helot workers who make up the hive’s drudging classes. The Clans are the de facto rulers of Hive City and their domains reflect their importance – nation states in their own right,"

So I think the background is changing on that as time goes on. It's interesting.

The Guilds are Lord Helmaw's force that control and provide vital service to the Hive, no House are 100% self sufficient and had to rely on the Guilds some way or another. That way Helmawr will make sure that large part of the House and Hive will remain loyal to him.

No, that's the Palenites. Lord H doesn't control the guilds - they grew fairly organically to take control of everything the houses didn't

I managed to snipe a screenshot of the new jump pack. Looks pretty good and could work as a generic jump pack for 40k infantry, assuming any such units existed.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't believe for a second that GW intended Newcromunda to be a one-and-done box, with only two of the 6 main gangs.

It is similar to Blood Bowl 1 year earlier. 2 teams. Incomplete/demo rules limited to the contents of the box. Like dipping a toe in the water. If the market was too cold, they could easily abandon the project.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The sheer amount of cyber stuff on them explains the 3+ save I think.

What 3+ armour save? Ogryns come without any armour, but can gain furnace plate (6+/5+ front) or carapace (light). Can be combined with armoured undersuit to get the 3+ save perhaps?

Baxx wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The sheer amount of cyber stuff on them explains the 3+ save I think.

What 3+ armour save? Ogryns come without any armour, but can gain furnace plate (6+/5+ front) or carapace (light). Can be combined with armoured undersuit to get the 3+ save perhaps?

Read all of the post, Baxx - the Kid was talking about using them in 40k, where one combination of gear for a Bullgryn can mean a 3+ save.

 Dysartes wrote:

Baxx wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The sheer amount of cyber stuff on them explains the 3+ save I think.

What 3+ armour save? Ogryns come without any armour, but can gain furnace plate (6+/5+ front) or carapace (light). Can be combined with armoured undersuit to get the 3+ save perhaps?

Read all of the post, Baxx - the Kid was talking about using them in 40k, where one combination of gear for a Bullgryn can mean a 3+ save.

Yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear.

I've actually never played N17, but keep buying the models for my Arbites and Genestealer Cult armies.

I have a sealed box of bullgryn in the cellar that I bought specifically for Necromunda. Looking forward to combining the two.

Baxx wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't believe for a second that GW intended Newcromunda to be a one-and-done box, with only two of the 6 main gangs.

It is similar to Blood Bowl 1 year earlier. 2 teams. Incomplete/demo rules limited to the contents of the box. Like dipping a toe in the water. If the market was too cold, they could easily abandon the project.

Exactly and the same as when they did Adepticus Titanicus, which was even more of a gamble because it had the most expensive starter box released by GW. All those games were designed as "one box and done" core releases. The idea being that if the market reacted badly GW could adjust what came after or even abandon the project. Of course with the lead time on developments if they abandoned or changed after the launch there would still have been a few expansions that would have made it through the system to release before it wound up. The idea for GW was to be able to dip their toes into different specialist games with the ability to leave them "abandoned" but in a complete state if the market didn't pick them up. At the same time they clearly remained open to being able to scale things up as well if the market reacted really well.

My impression from how its messed with Forgeworlds teams is that the market didn't react well. It reacted insanely well and the result was the games have nearly all had a big turn around.

The lack of confidence GW has in their own product should tell you how much effort they put in.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
The lack of confidence GW has in their own product should tell you how much effort they put in.

Perhaps at the start. I don’t see a lack of effort in the last couple of books though.

 Overread wrote:
Exactly and the same as when they did Adepticus Titanicus, which was even more of a gamble because it had the most expensive starter box released by GW.

The designers wanted Reavers & Warhounds in the box, but were overruled as the Warlord was more iconic.

Reaver and Warhound were not done on time when they pack it. They made a mistake by making Warlord first, and rumour was that GW designer had to step in and help because the thing is too much for the guys at FW.

Not to mention all the time they already wasted making resin then decide to switch to plastic production.

Lots of places to discuss Titanicus, let's keep this thread to Necromunda.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Eh. It looks less like a rock and more like a wrecked piece of girder.

But yeah, it does look slightly out of place. Still better than another company I can think of.

Tactical chimney...

The metalic paintjob does help, but it still looks like the Wrecker's standing on a rock - couldn't they have made it a pipe or something?

Honestly, it looks like it just needs to be sunk into the base a bit more. I'm planning on taking a dremel and grinding a dent in so that the piece could get sunken into the base or pick a different base to start from.

Baxx wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't believe for a second that GW intended Newcromunda to be a one-and-done box, with only two of the 6 main gangs.

It is similar to Blood Bowl 1 year earlier. 2 teams. Incomplete/demo rules limited to the contents of the box. Like dipping a toe in the water. If the market was too cold, they could easily abandon the project.

Except the minis for the other gangs would have been in production long before the first box came out.

 tauist wrote:
I managed to snipe a screenshot of the new jump pack. Looks pretty good and could work as a generic jump pack for 40k infantry, assuming any such units existed.

Funnily enough, they did exist - Elysian drop infantry. You could use this box to make (far cheaper) equivalent drop troopers from another regiment, but alas, FW ""competence"" happened in meantime.

 Overread wrote:

Baxx wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't believe for a second that GW intended Newcromunda to be a one-and-done box, with only two of the 6 main gangs.

It is similar to Blood Bowl 1 year earlier. 2 teams. Incomplete/demo rules limited to the contents of the box. Like dipping a toe in the water. If the market was too cold, they could easily abandon the project.

Exactly and the same as when they did Adepticus Titanicus, which was even more of a gamble because it had the most expensive starter box released by GW. All those games were designed as "one box and done" core releases. The idea being that if the market reacted badly GW could adjust what came after or even abandon the project. Of course with the lead time on developments if they abandoned or changed after the launch there would still have been a few expansions that would have made it through the system to release before it wound up. The idea for GW was to be able to dip their toes into different specialist games with the ability to leave them "abandoned" but in a complete state if the market didn't pick them up. At the same time they clearly remained open to being able to scale things up as well if the market reacted really well.

My impression from how its messed with Forgeworlds teams is that the market didn't react well. It reacted insanely well and the result was the games have nearly all had a big turn around.

I wonder a lot about the popularity/reach of the game.

Consensus seems to be it's doing really well, and the expanding releases prove it. On the other hand, there never seems to be that many people talking about it online. Yaktribe is a steady but slow drip of discussion. The Necromunda reddit is mostly people posting paintjobs. In terms of the youtube/podcast battle report ecosystem it's never seemed like Necromunda has made much of an impact. So I'm constantly curious about how much of the success is people buying the models to use in 40K or as shelf-sitters versus how much the game is actually being played out there. I suppose that due to its campaign-centric design it's much more suitable for private, local gaming groups to quietly play rather than the competitive tournament-centric that generates more public discussion.

 Altruizine wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Baxx wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't believe for a second that GW intended Newcromunda to be a one-and-done box, with only two of the 6 main gangs.

It is similar to Blood Bowl 1 year earlier. 2 teams. Incomplete/demo rules limited to the contents of the box. Like dipping a toe in the water. If the market was too cold, they could easily abandon the project.

Exactly and the same as when they did Adepticus Titanicus, which was even more of a gamble because it had the most expensive starter box released by GW. All those games were designed as "one box and done" core releases. The idea being that if the market reacted badly GW could adjust what came after or even abandon the project. Of course with the lead time on developments if they abandoned or changed after the launch there would still have been a few expansions that would have made it through the system to release before it wound up. The idea for GW was to be able to dip their toes into different specialist games with the ability to leave them "abandoned" but in a complete state if the market didn't pick them up. At the same time they clearly remained open to being able to scale things up as well if the market reacted really well.

My impression from how its messed with Forgeworlds teams is that the market didn't react well. It reacted insanely well and the result was the games have nearly all had a big turn around.

I wonder a lot about the popularity/reach of the game.

Consensus seems to be it's doing really well, and the expanding releases prove it. On the other hand, there never seems to be that many people talking about it online. Yaktribe is a steady but slow drip of discussion. The Necromunda reddit is mostly people posting paintjobs. In terms of the youtube/podcast battle report ecosystem it's never seemed like Necromunda has made much of an impact. So I'm constantly curious about how much of the success is people buying the models to use in 40K or as shelf-sitters versus how much the game is actually being played out there. I suppose that due to its campaign-centric design it's much more suitable for private, local gaming groups to quietly play rather than the competitive tournament-centric that generates more public discussion.

There are quite a few dedicated Facebook groups to Necromunda with one of the main ones having around 15k followers.

I actually find Facebook and the groups for Warhammer related topics to be about the only good thing going for it, but plenty of love for it there.

 Irbis wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I managed to snipe a screenshot of the new jump pack. Looks pretty good and could work as a generic jump pack for 40k infantry, assuming any such units existed.

Funnily enough, they did exist - Elysian drop infantry. You could use this box to make (far cheaper) equivalent drop troopers from another regiment, but alas, FW ""competence"" happened in meantime.

.

$40 for 4? So $120 to get up to a squad of 10 (with 2 spares)? Were prices really that bad?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I managed to snipe a screenshot of the new jump pack. Looks pretty good and could work as a generic jump pack for 40k infantry, assuming any such units existed.

Funnily enough, they did exist - Elysian drop infantry. You could use this box to make (far cheaper) equivalent drop troopers from another regiment, but alas, FW ""competence"" happened in meantime.

.

$40 for 4? So $120 to get up to a squad of 10 (with 2 spares)? Were prices really that bad?

Looking at the 2018 Catalogue - £44 / $73 for the Squad & £13.50 / $22 for the Grav Chutes.

 tauist wrote:
I managed to snipe a screenshot of the new jump pack. Looks pretty good and could work as a generic jump pack for 40k infantry, assuming any such units existed.

Once upon a time...
Actually, there was a great RT-era art with guard jump packs (and two laspistols). Another with jet bikes.
The original army list had both.

Assault Guard also existed in Epic

To be honest, if memory serves they had CAF+2, which was usually enough to give any non-assault based unit a good kicking.

 Altruizine wrote:

Consensus seems to be it's doing really well, and the expanding releases prove it. On the other hand, there never seems to be that many people talking about it online. Yaktribe is a steady but slow drip of discussion. The Necromunda reddit is mostly people posting paintjobs. In terms of the youtube/podcast battle report ecosystem it's never seemed like Necromunda has made much of an impact. So I'm constantly curious about how much of the success is people buying the models to use in 40K or as shelf-sitters versus how much the game is actually being played out there. I suppose that due to its campaign-centric design it's much more suitable for private, local gaming groups to quietly play rather than the competitive tournament-centric that generates more public discussion.

It's definitely a 'LFGS Game' that people bring out of the cupboard every few months for a campaign and then shelve for another while before bringing it out again, rather than something like 40k or even Blood Bowl where people play it consistently, every week for months on end. I wouldn't say that's a bad thing either, as it seems to keep energy surrounding the game pretty steady rather than people burning out and suits the slow-but-steady release schedule well.

GW stores don't touch it because they generally don't allow anything that's not 40k/AoS/the non-FW games to be played.

I think forums are a very bad measure for game popularity today. So so SOO many people online now (which we must also realise is always a smaller portion of the real playerbase) only get as far as Facebook. They don't delve into forums.

With many forums also not aggressive in advertising and spreading their name (lets face it most run at a loss; fewer run at a break even or profit so there often isn't the money for advertising) it means that it tends to see far less recruiting.

Even though FB groups are primitive compared to most forums; its where many people are far more active. Heck with a lot of companies shutting forums and going to FB groups its often the only point of social contact for some game companies.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

Consensus seems to be it's doing really well, and the expanding releases prove it. On the other hand, there never seems to be that many people talking about it online. Yaktribe is a steady but slow drip of discussion. The Necromunda reddit is mostly people posting paintjobs. In terms of the youtube/podcast battle report ecosystem it's never seemed like Necromunda has made much of an impact. So I'm constantly curious about how much of the success is people buying the models to use in 40K or as shelf-sitters versus how much the game is actually being played out there. I suppose that due to its campaign-centric design it's much more suitable for private, local gaming groups to quietly play rather than the competitive tournament-centric that generates more public discussion.

It's definitely a 'LFGS Game' that people bring out of the cupboard every few months for a campaign and then shelve for another while before bringing it out again, rather than something like 40k or even Blood Bowl where people play it consistently, every week for months on end. I wouldn't say that's a bad thing either, as it seems to keep energy surrounding the game pretty steady rather than people burning out and suits the slow-but-steady release schedule well.

GW stores don't touch it because they generally don't allow anything that's not 40k/AoS/the non-FW games to be played.

That isn't necessarily true, at my local GW we were set to begin a necromunda campaign and then coronavirus happened. Before that though we were allowed to play blood bowl in the shop several times. I really think it's down to how cool your local manager is. I don't know when it'll re-open for gaming but last I heard there's still interest in getting a campaign running. I'm sure they'd probably be less willing if we didn't physically go into the store and order our stuff from the computer (so our necromunda stuff counts as sales for the store).

 Arbitrator wrote:
GW stores don't touch it because they generally don't allow anything that's not 40k/AoS/the non-FW games to be played.

What's played in-store is up to the manager (at least in the UK) - we had an in-store Necromunda campaign last year.

Indeed. It’s not on the shelf due to limited space, but there’s nothing to prevent an in-store campaign.

And as for limited space, the website is billed in-store as a virtual stockroom. Sure you’ll need to swing by another day to collect, but the store still gets the sale for it’s books, and ultimately that’s all that matters.

When Necromunda 17 hit, I got into a two gang campaign started by the inestimable Flinty of these forums. There was little chance either of us would have ever played again without the buzz of a new edition.

Before The Plague hit, my local game club was on the verge (as in, taking numbers) of starting a campaign.

Now, I'm old skool. I have arbitated many a campaign... last century. But from my very limited real world gaming experience in the last few years, Necromunda is popular, and in the demographic I've met more popular than 40k.

What we play in store is up to the players. Then we are lucky to not have any GW stores close by. We also have a community gaming club using library after closing hours. Play whatever you like with whatever minis you prefer.

It might be possible that a lot of the "popularity" of Necromunda might be like 40K--painters and fluff collectors. More people buy minis than play games and so long as people buy gangs GW will continue to make stuff for Necromunda(/Blood Bowl/AoS/40K...).

Don't forget for the vast majority of casual fun players they can get into Necromunda with 1 box of models. You only need one rulebook in the club; only one or two sets of terrain and a pack of models and you can get a game going.

 Overread wrote:
Don't forget for the vast majority of casual fun players they can get into Necromunda with 1 box of models. You only need one rulebook in the club; only one or two sets of terrain and a pack of models and you can get a game going.

I wasn't aware there was a 'one rulebook' for Necromunda with all the gangs, rules, gear and etc.

Voss wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Don't forget for the vast majority of casual fun players they can get into Necromunda with 1 box of models. You only need one rulebook in the club; only one or two sets of terrain and a pack of models and you can get a game going.

I wasn't aware there was a 'one rulebook' for Necromunda with all the gangs, rules, gear and etc.

If your playing the Community Edition... than yes, you only need the one book unless somebody wants to play the Outlanders stuff.

While the new minis are great, my group can't be arsed trying to deal with the glut of books and out of prints cards.

Well, one set of rulebooks. And that's how we ran Necromunda for years, one set of books and terrain in the club, all you need is a gang. Cheap entry game.

 Irbis wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I managed to snipe a screenshot of the new jump pack. Looks pretty good and could work as a generic jump pack for 40k infantry, assuming any such units existed.

Funnily enough, they did exist - Elysian drop infantry. You could use this box to make (far cheaper) equivalent drop troopers from another regiment, but alas, FW ""competence"" happened in meantime.

Elysians could perhaps be kitbashed from these jump packs + palanite enforcer helmets combined with a suitable torso. However, as elysians might get legended soon I don't know if it would be worthwile. Besides, its gonna be some time until bitz retailers will have these new orlock bits anyways.

I always loved the "bullpup" style elysian lasguns. I think I still have a few of them in my bitz box which I bought for necromunda, but have stopped playing necromunda since then..

 Graphite wrote:
Well, one set of rulebooks. And that's how we ran Necromunda for years, one set of books and terrain in the club, all you need is a gang. Cheap entry game.

Yeah, I'm tapped out of this edition's book treadmill. Kind of the very opposite I want this game for.

 tauist wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I managed to snipe a screenshot of the new jump pack. Looks pretty good and could work as a generic jump pack for 40k infantry, assuming any such units existed.

Funnily enough, they did exist - Elysian drop infantry. You could use this box to make (far cheaper) equivalent drop troopers from another regiment, but alas, FW ""competence"" happened in meantime.

Elysians could perhaps be kitbashed from these jump packs + palanite enforcer helmets combined with a suitable torso. However, as elysians might get legended soon I don't know if it would be worthwile. Besides, its gonna be some time until bitz retailers will have these new orlock bits anyways.

I always loved the "bullpup" style elysian lasguns. I think I still have a few of them in my bitz box which I bought for necromunda, but have stopped playing necromunda since then..

3rd party or 3d printing seems the way to go on that. I am barking mad sometimes but I'd never try to make an army out of half a box of orlocks.

I really do hate people sometimes - the Zone Mortalis Gang Tactics Cards are already on eBay for £75 :-(

So don't buy them, let the fether choke on however many he has.

beast_gts wrote:
I really do hate people sometimes - the Zone Mortalis Gang Tactics Cards are already on eBay for £75 :-(

Is that the store from Germany who has pretty much everything overpriced on the UK Ebay. I just tend to ignore it honestly. From what I can tell of stocks the number who have insane prices are only holding a tiny amount of stock.

 Overread wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
I really do hate people sometimes - the Zone Mortalis Gang Tactics Cards are already on eBay for £75 :-(

Is that the store from Germany who has pretty much everything overpriced on the UK Ebay. I just tend to ignore it honestly. From what I can tell of stocks the number who have insane prices are only holding a tiny amount of stock.

No, UK based - and looking at their other items they just buy up the cards & dice packs to sell on later with a massive mark-up.

I guess the GW store limit on 1 per customer really doesn't work.

I don't see any reason to get the official GW cards. They are ridden with errors, no artwork, no interesting design and clumsy size. You can get 100% all cards elsewhere, updated (if any FAQs applies), obvious errors are corrected, nice common magic card size and if you lose or damage some, you can reprint. I had almost all cards (missed the early access limited one) original, but never used them, and are now trying to sell them off (have sold some already).

Not to mention they're also completely unbalanced.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I guess the GW store limit on 1 per customer really doesn't work.

Don't think they care really as long as they shift stock, those who missed out can take a running jump...

Not sure what I think of the new Orlocks - love the weaponsmasters, though they look a bit simple, but more bodies is always more good, and it seems like the hammer guy has power fists, so there's some cool conversion potential there - I always wanted to give a GSC neophyte leader one of the orlock power fists.
The rest of the box...
...not sure. My Orlocks are pretty heavily converted, but at the same time, when they were released, I liked them the least of any of the gangs. Those wreckers seem fun, and the arms look interchangable with the rest of the line, but seeing what is and isn't legal might be a bit slippery. Here's to hoping the sprues aren't cut super wierd.
As ever with Necromunda, it seems like the artwork on the books is just that little bit cooler than the minis themselves - though hopefully that just means that FW might put out that cool miner guy and the important-looking dude in the naval(?) jacket.

I really like the Ogryns, but damn. Over $100 for 6 out here? Over $50 for two?
I don't want them that bad, GW.

Yeah, you can play like we used to with the list, and specific gang info, per book.

As long as your not trying to add in the special characters, and specialized gangs', your fine. Even then, if you have the rules, you have them for references..

I don't know how GW is thinking this game is going for them, but they aren't doing themselves any favors with lack of product and reference stuff. I do love those Ogryn, I'll end up using bits from fantasy to fill in the empty spaces and use the bits from the Ogryn box for enhancement.


The new 40K scenery is a great addition to the Necromunda stuff, You can add it in even with the homemade cardstock scenery for added flavor.

 posermcbogus wrote:
Not sure what I think of the new Orlocks - love the weaponsmasters, though they look a bit simple, but more bodies is always more good, and it seems like the hammer guy has power fists, so there's some cool conversion potential there - I always wanted to give a GSC neophyte leader one of the orlock power fists.
The rest of the box...

That's a servo claw, the exact same one in the Orlock gang box, if you want the bit just get it from that box instead, it's a full fist with nothing attached, this new one is stuck holding a hammer.

In the case of the Orlock Arm Masters model it's not even a weapon, it's a full Servo Harness suit.

Yeah, but this one is right handed - and doing a cheeky drilling-out of the remnants of the hammer, and maybe a touch of re-sculpting shouldn't be too much of a tall order methinks.

And very similar to a crude version of a power fist. It could certainly double as one, if you want to experiment with different weapons!

Next Warcom article is up

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/25/house-of-blades-hired-guns-and-hangers-on/

What... what's going on with the Chymist's feet in that picture. How do you bend your legs like that? THAT ISN'T HOW KNEES WORK.

It is not exactly a way you would normally stand, but it isn’t impossible to bend your foot that way.


I’m hoping that Forge World will release models alongside this for the Water Guild, as these are featured in House of Blades. Kind of sad that the Ulanti Courtiers won’t have a model for the foreseeable future. Same with House Greim.

 Segersgia wrote:
It is not exactly a way you would normally stand, but it isn’t impossible to bend your foot that way.


I’m hoping that Forge World will release models alongside this for the Water Guild, as these are featured in House of Blades. Kind of sad that the Ulanti Courtiers won’t have a model for the foreseeable future. Same with House Greim.

Only if you're a mermaid.

Seriously. Look a the kneepad.

The downside to that article is that it doesn't sound like there's any models coming for any of those options since the article seems to launch right into suggesting conversions. This might mean models were on the cards and were shelved or have been delayed (indefinitely or for a very long time)

I suspect they're more likely to come out with models for the mermaid, sorry, Chymist and Shivver as hangers on - I think it'll be a long time before we get anything noble house like. But there are a lot of "posh" miniatures that could be adapted for uphivers. Anything in the Lahmian vampire range, for a start.

 Graphite wrote:

Only if you're a mermaid.

Seriously. Look a the kneepad.

Normally I'd be the one annoyed by these kinds of poses, but the kneepad plays a bit of a false depth to it.

Look at how the kneepad is set up. The larger 'front' part goes almost to the kneepit.

They make a good suggestion of the Rogue Trader models - sadly the Rogue Trader models and the upper class looking ones from Blackstone fortress are rather expensive to get for just one model in the set for a conversion.

Nice idea if you've got them sort of thing; but not really what most hobbyists will aim for sadly.

 Overread wrote:
The downside to that article is that it doesn't sound like there's any models coming for any of those options since the article seems to launch right into suggesting conversions. This might mean models were on the cards and were shelved or have been delayed (indefinitely or for a very long time)

Something I'm starting to wonder about is if they had possibly been planning a new edition's core book and the shift to these full-fledged books was being done as it was so they could make sure everything fit.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Graphite wrote:

Only if you're a mermaid.

Seriously. Look a the kneepad.

Spoiler:

Normally I'd be the one annoyed by these kinds of poses, but the kneepad plays a bit of a false depth to it.

Look at how the kneepad is set up. The larger 'front' part goes almost to the kneepit.

No, I really can't see how it makes sense. We can see her left thigh, with test tubes, and that's in front until we get to the knee - and still at the front there. Because behind the knee pad is a strap around the back of the knee.

Below this, her right leg is in front - with either an incredibly chunky calf muscle, or the back of her left leg. Which is now behind.

Mermaid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Annotated.

It looks like she was standing straight and then they added crossed legs? Or something?

It's a shame, because the rest of the picture is really good.

I did a double take at first. Thought she had one leg.

Er no.

Like I said, the kneepad is huge. The part that you're highlighting as a separate leg? Isn't. The green should be over the foot you have in red.

The kneepad is more like plate armor than it is just modern tactical gear.

I'll have to agree to disagree on that one, because for that pose to work I think you'd need to have a ball joint in your knee.

Not saying that the considerable messing with Escher DNA that's gone on puts this beyond the realms of possibility....

Well, we did have his previewed a while back:



Not identical but it’ll fit the bill

Surprisingly enough, that's a different entry. Rogue Doc vs the Apprentice Clan Chymist(which is the Escher hanger-on).

Wasn't a fan of the weird decision on the look of the 'half-zipped hazmat suit', but the entry seemingly being generic means I can make my own.

Dunno, I suspect a Hazmat suit is a fairly uncomfortable thing to wear most of the time. But that model would certainly fit the bill, and I think looks pretty good.

Given the BSF eldar debacle, I wonder if there is a rogue artist in the GW stable that has some anatomical difficulties.

Also there are a number of awesome Heresy Lab inquisitor and others that would probably fit the House Ulanti Courtier bill.

E.g. https://www.heresylab.com/store/miniatures/28-mm/hl159-inquisitor-nikita-hellsing/

BSF Eldar Debacle?

 Graphite wrote:

Spoiler:

Annotated.

It looks like she was standing straight and then they added crossed legs? Or something?

It's a shame, because the rest of the picture is really good.

Yeah, Graphite? Might want an eye test, dude.

I'll allow for slightly better definition/reflections being needed, and the near shin has some off proportions, but her far leg is straight up-and-down. Her near leg is twisted at the knee, with her foot angled at the ankle onto her instep.

Having just gotten up off my sofa and tried it out - admittedly, without the boots - it is perfectly physically doable without being a mermaid, if not particularly comfortable in the medium-to-long term.

I tried it also, and then made my wife stand so I could see it from the same angle. It is perfectly do able.

I think it would have been better to have a tiny bit of right thigh showing at the top (though anatomically the angle just hides it perfectly..)

She doesn't have her legs crossed.

Gonna have to disagree with you as well Kanluwen, those legs are pretty borked... and it isn't the kneepad.

Wonder how wyld bows with telescopic sight works, or gunshroud?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Surprisingly enough, that's a different entry. Rogue Doc vs the Apprentice Clan Chymist(which is the Escher hanger-on).

Wasn't a fan of the weird decision on the look of the 'half-zipped hazmat suit', but the entry seemingly being generic means I can make my own.

With some spare Escher parts and a bit of conversion, you’d probably come up with something good that fits the bill. Another reason I like this plethora of characters they pile into the book. Gives me some inspiration to do some proper conversions. Personally, not really had that feeling with a GW product for many a year...

Baxx wrote:
Wonder how wyld bows with telescopic sight works, or gunshroud?

Arr you talking about in lore? Or in game? Because you can fix sights to bows that can adjust for distance... so that one doesn't seem to off to me. Don't know about gunshroud though.

No, that pose is absolutely not doable. Those trying it at home and "succeeding" aren't doing it right. You can't rotate the leg out at the knee, only at the hip, but the hip is obviously not rotated out because the thigh is going straight forward.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

Baxx wrote:
Wonder how wyld bows with telescopic sight works, or gunshroud?

Arr you talking about in lore? Or in game? Because you can fix sights to bows that can adjust for distance... so that one doesn't seem to off to me. Don't know about gunshroud though.

Now that you mention it, both! Sounds interesting to have sights on a bow. But yeah, that gunshroud though.

Baxx wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

Baxx wrote:
Wonder how wyld bows with telescopic sight works, or gunshroud?

Arr you talking about in lore? Or in game? Because you can fix sights to bows that can adjust for distance... so that one doesn't seem to off to me. Don't know about gunshroud though.

Now that you mention it, both! Sounds interesting to have sights on a bow. But yeah, that gunshroud though.

Why would you need a silencer on a silent weapon though?

“Hey, I’ve been thinking, Boss. You think players will be pissed about buying effectively their third rule book for Escher in three years?”

“Hmmm. Good point. Better include an illustration of a character with an argument-provoking pose to distract their discussions online. That should take care of that issue. “

 Shadox wrote:

Why would you need a silencer on a silent weapon though?

Good point. However, most arrows are silent, but acid are not. Some suggested that's caused by the victim is screaming

Baxx wrote:

 Shadox wrote:

Why would you need a silencer on a silent weapon though?

Good point. However, most arrows are silent, but acid are not.

Speaking as someone who carried a scar from an acid burn for many years, I've never found acid to be particularly noisy.

 privateer4hire wrote:
“Hey, I’ve been thinking, Boss. You think players will be pissed about buying effectively their third rule book for Escher in three years?”

“Hmmm. Good point. Better include an illustration of a character with an argument-provoking pose to distract their discussions online. That should take care of that issue. “

Hah! That is pretty dang funny.

beast_gts wrote:
I really do hate people sometimes - the Zone Mortalis Gang Tactics Cards are already on eBay for £75 :-(

Email from eBay - "You viewed at £75.00. It's now £65.00."

beast_gts wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
I really do hate people sometimes - the Zone Mortalis Gang Tactics Cards are already on eBay for £75 :-(

Email from eBay - "You viewed at £75.00. It's now £65.00."

Hah! What a deal

 Flinty wrote:
Given the BSF eldar debacle...

The what?

 Altruizine wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Baxx wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't believe for a second that GW intended Newcromunda to be a one-and-done box, with only two of the 6 main gangs.

It is similar to Blood Bowl 1 year earlier. 2 teams. Incomplete/demo rules limited to the contents of the box. Like dipping a toe in the water. If the market was too cold, they could easily abandon the project.

Exactly and the same as when they did Adepticus Titanicus, which was even more of a gamble because it had the most expensive starter box released by GW. All those games were designed as "one box and done" core releases. The idea being that if the market reacted badly GW could adjust what came after or even abandon the project. Of course with the lead time on developments if they abandoned or changed after the launch there would still have been a few expansions that would have made it through the system to release before it wound up. The idea for GW was to be able to dip their toes into different specialist games with the ability to leave them "abandoned" but in a complete state if the market didn't pick them up. At the same time they clearly remained open to being able to scale things up as well if the market reacted really well.

My impression from how its messed with Forgeworlds teams is that the market didn't react well. It reacted insanely well and the result was the games have nearly all had a big turn around.

I wonder a lot about the popularity/reach of the game.

Consensus seems to be it's doing really well, and the expanding releases prove it. On the other hand, there never seems to be that many people talking about it online. Yaktribe is a steady but slow drip of discussion. The Necromunda reddit is mostly people posting paintjobs. In terms of the youtube/podcast battle report ecosystem it's never seemed like Necromunda has made much of an impact. So I'm constantly curious about how much of the success is people buying the models to use in 40K or as shelf-sitters versus how much the game is actually being played out there. I suppose that due to its campaign-centric design it's much more suitable for private, local gaming groups to quietly play rather than the competitive tournament-centric that generates more public discussion.

I got into Necromunda at about the Gang book 3 time and got the rest to catch up. Then there was the rulebook and gang book consolidated that came out. I got the new rule book. Then they did the rediculously priced box set and i couldn't do it. Now seeing all the books and them going to several books again I refuse to do it. Wasted too much money on the Gang books then they came out with a consolidated one. No thanks for me.

Too strong a term perhaps, but Amallyn Shadowguide's combat Stance is also rather less than comfortable... Or useful...

Doesn't look like a "combat stance" to me...

Can't see what the big deal is.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
No, that pose is absolutely not doable. Those trying it at home and "succeeding" aren't doing it right. You can't rotate the leg out at the knee, only at the hip, but the hip is obviously not rotated out because the thigh is going straight forward.

She is angling her hips. And you can angle you lower leg a bit to each sidewithout changing hip position noticably.
The pose is weird, but easily doable, just tried it for fun myself. I think the ones saying it is impossible are interpreting the stance incorrectly, or you have very stiff lower legs.

That pose look like she just inject her leg with a paralytic drug. The one they usually use in transquilizer.

Some news:
- 5 cred lasgun (10 cred laspistol) is unchanged
- discounted throwing knives (5 creds) for the entire gang (including juves)

When is that Rogue Doc coming out?

 RedDogMinis wrote:
Is there any place that has all of the previous tactics cards compiled in a pdf or scans? I have most of the miniatures but I missed the cards at release and not going to pay scalper rates to try and track them down just to play on an even field.

Check the “Vault” section on Yaktribe - has everything you need apart from a printer.

 RedDogMinis wrote:
Is there any place that has all of the previous tactics cards compiled in a pdf or scans? I have most of the miniatures but I missed the cards at release and not going to pay scalper rates to try and track them down just to play on an even field.

I got you covered

I have most of the original cards from GW for both Necromunda and Blood Bowl. What is annoying is the back side some times has a different hue/shine/colour, making them 'marked' and possible to identify if taking a closer look. Adding transparent sleeves does not help much either. This is even the case for some of the cards for Warhammer Underworlds.

Thanks I’ll need to swing by yaktribe. The different backs or home printed stuff isn’t an issue I’ll just use solid backed sleeves. (Used to do the same when playtesting with CCGs.

That is a good solution yes.

Am I counting right, are there only two powerfists per sprue of Ogryns, left and right?

 Binabik15 wrote:
Am I counting right, are there only two powerfists per sprue of Ogryns, left and right?

It's hard to tell looking at the sprue , but looking at the photos it does look like there's only one augmetic fist per Ogryn (two fists on a sprue of two Ogryns). I wonder if the Kastelan Robot fists will be too big...

Look to me like 2 fists (R&L) per sprue.

#32-35

#40-42

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Look to me like 2 fists (R&L) per sprue.

#32-35

#40-42

Yeah - there's nothing that could be a clenched fist on there (or in the photos).

The Kastelan fist is as big as a 40k plastic Ogryns leg, if you include the little bit of armour sticking out at the end. So roughly 33% longer, I'd say, and much thicker due to being a cylinder.


Bummer that there's not enough fists to make both ogryns dual wield them. Or three at least.

 Binabik15 wrote:
The Kastelan fist is as big as a 40k plastic Ogryns leg, if you include the little bit of armour sticking out at the end. So roughly 33% longer, I'd say, and much thicker due to being a cylinder.

Might have to raid my Ork bitz box - see if cut-down Kan arms would work (possibly as rock cutter / saw). I wonder if AoS Ironguts arms would work for the melee weapons...

So it occurred to me last night that the Ogryn Slave Gang has a bunch of weapon options that are not in the box (in fact, there are only 3 weapon options in the box).

Do we know if FW will be making weapon accessory kits for these guys like they did with the other 6 gangs?

I would hope so. The thought of a giant Ogryn ganger with a rock-saw or double-handed hammer sounds like a lot of fun.

Damnation, I was *really* hoping we would start to see some Necro FW releases today... >.<

Also still hoping for some Corpse Grinder Cult alt weapons and heads - still have a single sprue left from Dark Uprising just awaiting for some alt. loadouts!

I'm really hoping they don't do escher dirty and actually do models for the phyrr cats/khimerix and house ulanti. Goliath got it good, they got the pit slaves, sumpcroc early on, their berzerker brute.

Honestly when the original phyrr cat sculpts were teased I thought one of the two was pretty decent. The one rearing up looked bad, but the other was just fine. It's been so long part of me wishes they would have just released those even though they weren't that good.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So it occurred to me last night that the Ogryn Slave Gang has a bunch of weapon options that are not in the box (in fact, there are only 3 weapon options in the box).

Do we know if FW will be making weapon accessory kits for these guys like they did with the other 6 gangs?

I would hope so. The thought of a giant Ogryn ganger with a rock-saw or double-handed hammer sounds like a lot of fun.

If you connect the augmetic fist with the backpack you get the Arc Welders. With that and the paired fists it's not as bad as it first sounds and I'm converting one of the Goliath rock saws right now

Terminator fists might work

Don't know if anyone's interested in the video game, but it's 20% off on pre-order at the moment on Steam and Xbox.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/27/video-game-premieres-from-opening-night-live/

 Graphite wrote:
Don't know if anyone's interested in the video game, but it's 20% off on pre-order at the moment on Steam and Xbox.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/27/video-game-premieres-from-opening-night-live/

Thanks - already ordered and looking forward to it.

Me to. Never pre-ordered, well, anything before but the price is fairly low, 20% is a pretty good discount and the campaign is written by Andy Chambers so it can't be all bad!

I still see it has half a game.

And pre-ordering is a mug's game.

Illumini wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
No, that pose is absolutely not doable. Those trying it at home and "succeeding" aren't doing it right. You can't rotate the leg out at the knee, only at the hip, but the hip is obviously not rotated out because the thigh is going straight forward.

She is angling her hips. And you can angle you lower leg a bit to each sidewithout changing hip position noticably.
The pose is weird, but easily doable, just tried it for fun myself. I think the ones saying it is impossible are interpreting the stance incorrectly, or you have very stiff lower legs.

Dysartes wrote:

 Graphite wrote:

Spoiler:

Annotated.

It looks like she was standing straight and then they added crossed legs? Or something?

It's a shame, because the rest of the picture is really good.

Yeah, Graphite? Might want an eye test, dude.

I'll allow for slightly better definition/reflections being needed, and the near shin has some off proportions, but her far leg is straight up-and-down. Her near leg is twisted at the knee, with her foot angled at the ankle onto her instep.

Having just gotten up off my sofa and tried it out - admittedly, without the boots - it is perfectly physically doable without being a mermaid, if not particularly comfortable in the medium-to-long term.

Pic or it didn't happen.

Either I'm misinterperating the drawing, or you guys have lower legs made of rubber. It sure looks anatomically impossible to me.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I still see it has half a game.

And pre-ordering is a mug's game.

I really enjoy their Mordheim - have it on PC and PS4 and at this point in my life - the cost is negliable.

I think the reduced price is okay and also preordered already. I support what they have done so far and as I usually do not buy many games these days I went with this and Cyberpunk 2077 for the second half of 2020. I hope the long dev time was good for the game and also hope they will make enough money to add the other three houses. Many RTS games like Starcraft had three factions and for the campaign and in the first months of the game I'm okay with playing these three only. Looking for more though. I think the gameplay blog posts show a game one can enjoy playing and so far it also nails the Necromunda setting. To me immersion and setting are an important part of the translation of a board to a video game and based on the trailers this looks to have been made well. Rules is a different topic and as long as it feels like playing a gang in the Underhive I'm okay with some changes. Not that happy with the limitation of 5 gangers per mission. But they asuameably did this because of the AI or other reasons preventing the game to get boring. We will see how it plays. I'm looking forward to it. Cant wait for its release.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I still see it has half a game.

And pre-ordering is a mug's game.

You can refund a pre-ordered game within 2 weeks of release.

In other words, pre-ordering poses zero risk to anybody other than those who lack the ability to independently assess a game, and can only enjoy something if it reviews well. For those people who need multiple co-signs from reviewers and the widespread blessing of a gaming community, two weeks might not be long enough for that to develop.

A GSC rock saw would most likely have looked much better as it's way bulkier, but I only have one of them and it's intended to go to the Cult and the Ogryn boss is gonna get bulging biceps so it being practically one-handed isn't really a problem

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I still see it has half a game.

And pre-ordering is a mug's game.

Less than half a game. Only half the base gangs, gang size is inexplicably 5, and they've cut the gangs down into little chunks- Escher, for example is a melee poison build- gang and speciality bonuses almost exclusively emphasize melee weapons (and specific ones as well).

That they're still shy about showing off gameplay with less than 2 weeks to go is a really bad sign.

I have been able to play Necromunda in months. Hoping this will scratch that Underhive itch.

 Shadox wrote:

Spoiler:

A GSC rock saw would most likely have looked much better as it's way bulkier, but I only have one of them and it's intended to go to the Cult and the Ogryn boss is gonna get bulging biceps so it being practically one-handed isn't really a problem

What's the story with that mask? Is it designed to go over the face in addition to being flipped up, or did you have to do some facial surgery to make that happen?

It's a completly seperate part so it can go both on the face or be flipped up (which seems to be it's intended purpose as it doesn't fit very well with the collar).

Did you try dry-fitting it to multiple heads, or does it only work with the one that has the headpiece for the flipped-up build?

I dry-fitted with all of them. There is no dedicated head for the mask and if you don't use the collar it fits on every head without problems in both positions.

Cool! Head swaps and mods are the most acute ease :: effect conversions, so I've been thinking about what to do with this kit.

The other bit I've been eyeing is the mask on the hip of the ostensible Leader in the product pics. Is it the exact same bit as the head used on the Lobo build, or are are they two separate items?

I wonder if the regular Ogryn heads will work with this kit...

It's the same sadly. The Lobo head is made from 3 parts: neck, antenna and face, the leader just has the face bit glued to the belt.

My order of the two GW direct card packs seems to have been pushed back a week, anyone else had the same?

Aeneades wrote:
My order of the two GW direct card packs seems to have been pushed back a week, anyone else had the same?

My card order turned up today(!). I reckon they’ve got a 2nd print run coming in or they’re staggering things. Necromunda seems to be selling out faster or their print runs are smaller. The new Escher box is already temp out of stock. Reckon the Orlock house of iron release will sell out fast

Aeneades wrote:
My order of the two GW direct card packs seems to have been pushed back a week, anyone else had the same?

Mine are scheduled for delivery at my local GW on monday. Which is weird cause pre orders usually always show up by saturday for pickup. Since the shop is closed mon/tues I might have to wait until next wednesday to pickup. Very annoying to say at the least.

 Shadox wrote:

Spoiler:

A GSC rock saw would most likely have looked much better as it's way bulkier, but I only have one of them and it's intended to go to the Cult and the Ogryn boss is gonna get bulging biceps so it being practically one-handed isn't really a problem

That looks boss af

Anyone know if there is an official rendering of a las-cutter anywhere in the various model ranges/artwork of yore?

 Altruizine wrote:
Anyone know if there is an official rendering of a las-cutter anywhere in the various model ranges/artwork of yore?

From the 30k Breachers on Forgeworld (fella on the left)






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just remembered that the Elysian range had a variant



More here: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Space-Marine-Boarding-Assault-Upgrade-Set

Reckon you can get those parts easily enough as lascutters are pretty poor in 30k and are hardly used

House of Blades is here!

Good news is Phyrr cats are still in the book! At least as rules, no photos of them sadly. Juves are now called "Little Sisters" and basically use the same kit (at least by the photos in the back of models) as the regular gang sisters (basically the core gang set).

They also show off the matriarch weapons that we saw a while back in a preview (claw hand, hammer etc...) and the doctor model that we, again, saw a while back.

Brutes adds a massive looking Khimerix off world beast which had some really great two page art of it

Just awaiting Postie. She usually visits by 12.

Have we seen this hammer champion before? I recognise the other two from past Necromunda articles but not sure about the middle one. She’s the coolest of the 3.

I was sure we'd seen the hammer before in the same preview or if not then it was referenced/art shown.

GW managed to ship the cards before Friday, which is unusual for them, but still haven't arrived yet. Damn the lack of weekend deliveries in my country.

Sat sitting in the pub, on pint number 2, greatly enjoying the book.

 Altruizine wrote:
Anyone know if there is an official rendering of a las-cutter anywhere in the various model ranges/artwork of yore?

On page 142 of House of Chains you can just about make out Sparky's - it looks the same as the Marine Boarding / Breacher ones -

For some reason Death-maiden don't have Combi-pistol as their starting weapon choice.....

Would be nice if they got a right arm Plasma pistol in plastic instead....

And that ugly rat dinosaur cost 50 dollars to recruit....

New plasma cannon model on page 111, so definitely a new weapon pack at some point

Found it
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/04/14/underhive-informant-docs-lookouts-and-weapons-galoregw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/

It's back in April that we saw the Doc and Runner models along with the claw, hammer, plasma gun and a few others. Some, like the plasma gun and hammer, were only shown then as a sketch. Which likely explains why some of us are sure we'd "seen them before" and others weren't.


Looks like most of that content is now finished. The real question is if its a FW or GW upgrade pack. At this stage I'm guessing FW resin weapons and models.


The real issue is where are the pets - Phyrrcat and Khimerix

Yeah that's the new plasma cannon, they saved the good bit for the resin pack....

Phyrr cat doesn't have any illustration in the new book,Look like it's in development hell now, why it's so hard for artists to sketch a cool small critters for escher? That rat dinosaur is one ugly abomination even in sketch.

Neeeeeeever mind, not wanting to pile on Zedmeister.

I'm interested to see how far behind things are. We haven't seen the Enforcer lady yet.

Chopstick wrote:
Yeah that's the new plasma cannon, they saved the good bit for the resin pack....

Phyrr cat doesn't have any illustration in the new book,Look like it's in development hell now, why it's so hard for artists to sketch a cool small critters for escher? That rat dinosaur is one ugly abomination even in sketch.

Agreed - no way I am using those models - there are better things to proxy for them

Aeneades wrote:
My order of the two GW direct card packs seems to have been pushed back a week, anyone else had the same?

I grabbed these cards as fast as I saw them. If I don't need them, Someone else will, down the road...
Tip for all of you, grab them when you can, even if you don't want them. These are like unicorns in their rarity.

I actually like the phelynx, I think they're neat little sculpts. In that above image the champ in the middle is definitely new. The bottom left one IMO is an awful sculpt...ouch. I'm still holding out hope that the khimerix and phyrr cats are either finished or work in progress sculpts at the moment.

Phyrr cats were finished and shown off a year or more ago - but they were taken back to be reworked and we've not heard of them since. I too hope both hit the shelves soon, its strange that later gangs are getting their beasts and such and Escher still don't technically have their first.

I remember these, the one on the left IMO looks fine. The one on the right is not so good and looks kinda weird rearing up like that. Sure they could look a little better or more feline but i'd almost rather have had these minis than been waiting this long.

I wonder if the real issue is that they can't get them to cast with the fur/spikes like that ?

but as you say it's surprising they've not just junked them and gone back to the drawing board if they're not going to use them

Wolfrats (poor removed wonderful models) have some good fur on their shoulders that isn't too dissimilar. It's not quite as shaggy and without the bits sticking out; they could have dropped that and kept the general fur shoulders.


I glad to see them in the book, I'd honestly thought they'd been quietly abandoned as a concept with the radio silence we've had. Even without Corona its been a long time without any news.

Aeneades wrote:
My order of the two GW direct card packs seems to have been pushed back a week, anyone else had the same?

My FLGS ordered all of the new card packs and the house of blades book for me.
The Book arrived.
The cards didn’t at all and GWOZ seem lost as to even if they will be sent out.
They are listed as sold out on every GW regional website.
I have every release for the new Necromunda since it started... I want and need these cards.
Sell them to me GW.

Also play warhammer underworlds and only 1 of the 2 new war bands was sent out this week.

We did get our first restock of primer in 8 weeks though.

Still no sign of White Dwarf.

 Thargrim wrote:


I remember these, the one on the left IMO looks fine. The one on the right is not so good and looks kinda weird rearing up like that. Sure they could look a little better or more feline but i'd almost rather have had these minis than been waiting this long.

I wonder if the issue might be the bulge between the legs. Once seen cannot be unseen...

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:


I remember these, the one on the left IMO looks fine. The one on the right is not so good and looks kinda weird rearing up like that. Sure they could look a little better or more feline but i'd almost rather have had these minis than been waiting this long.

I wonder if the issue might be the bulge between the legs. Once seen cannot be unseen...

Unlikely. A few GW models have sheaths. Heck if the Bloodwrack has an exposed breast. It's more that when GW was doing plastic horses the underside of the horse was mostly ignored. It's an area you don't "see" and barring very large models its often quite hidden. So designers tend to just not bother putting anything there. Gamers, meanwhile, are buying the models more for the rider and the military side rather than the anatomical. That said several models since have had genitalia. Personally I find it more amazing that, in a market that loses its mind over an upside down or missing sight on a gun barrel, we allow GW to get away with such casual disregard for animal anatomical design.

Not really, proper kit do have detail for the belly, that flat belly problem for monsters/horses usually occur in snap fit kit.

New book is to no surprise full of errors (some was even visible in warcom article). Do not recommend.

Baxx wrote:
New book is to no surprise full of errors (some was even visible in warcom article). Do not recommend.

You have any details on the mistakes?

Errors:
Stun grenades cost 25. Comment: Is this increased price on purpose? Goliath book had 25 and 15 (depending on fighter). Delaque has 10, Enforcers 15 and Trading Post (Rare 8) 15.
Page 33, 35, 37, 39: Chem-syth. Comment: Chem-synth.
Page 41: Smoke gas grenades. Comment: Smoke grenades (no such thing as smoke gas grenades).
Page 79 & 82: 2 separate ways of adding Cold Traders to the crew, the old one (replaces a fighter) and the new one (in addition to full crew). Comment: One is probably copy-paste of old rules.
Page 92: Somersault (Finesse skill) action does not count as moving for purposes of effects and for firing of weapons with the unwieldy trait. Comment: How is this relevant to Unwieldy? Unwieldy isn't affected by movement but makes shooting a double action.
Page 115: Throwing Knives Str S. Comment: This is a Toxin weapon with Str -.
Page 117: Two-handed axe has Acc modifier '-'. Comment: Should have -1 hit modifier.
Page 117: Two-handed hammer has Acc modifier '-'. Comment: Should have -1 hit modifier.
Page 210: Ogryn (Hangers-on) have Augmetic Fists. Comment: The weapon profile is not listed in this book.
Page 112: Artwork of Escher specific Power Axe. Comment: Escher Equipment Lists no longer includes Power Axe. Yet the profile of Power Knife is actually the profile of a Power Axe.
Page 106 & 107: Back from the Dead scenario:
- Sneak Attack rules with the single Escher fighter as defender. Comment: Sneak Attack applies to defender. This makes no sense, the attacker and defender should be swapped, or an exception should state that the attackers are the Sentries in this scenario.
- Fighters can scavenge corpse tokens to gain temporary weapons. Comment: No mention of distance. Probably 1" or B2B.

Universal flaws applying to all "House of..." books:
House Agents: What happens when Petitioning for House Agent and the gang gets fined (2D6*10 credits), but can't pay? The fined result (16+) will never trigger because no gang with 10+ Reputation is going to roll for Petition. Since House Agents have a variable cost, what is their contribution to gang rating? Their Equipment rule state the free equipment you get for them should be accounted for when determining Gang Rating, but what is the base value of the House Agent? Generic has a rating of 40 or 80 credits? Special Character has rating of 100 or 200?
Bounty Hunter (Generic): Can equip items from the Trading Post, but does not specify any limitation in Rarity. The old (universal) generic Bounty Hunter could use items with rarity 10 or less.
Promotion: Specialist (Gangers) can be promoted to Champion, but refers to promotion old rules when only the single original Champion fighter type existed. It is unclear what types of Champions a Specialists can be promoted to now, since there are 2 types. Comparing promotion of prospects (new 'specialist' juve fighter), this varies depending on gang: Goliath: Prospect can be promoted to Champion or Stimmer. Escher: Prospect can be promoted to Champion only (not Death-maiden for obvious fluff reasons).

A few notes of exceptions:
Ulanti Noble Alliance: No Group Activations. The Courtier is originally labeled “Leader” but only have Leading By Example (6”) equivalent to a Champion (similar to Greim). The “Leader” does not have Overseer. Mirror Mask does not have a fighter type (does not have Bodyguard, Indentured Fighter etc.).

Changes and updates:
Water Guild: Now specifies how many fighters are part of the Nautican Syphoning Delegation: 1 Leader, 1 Champion and 1 Ganger. Comment: It was expected to have 1 ganger instead of 2 like most other alliances, since this fighter has very strong stats (similar to Ogryn).
Cold Traders: Xenos Artefacts changed from -2 Legality for Xenos items (Black Market) to fixed prices for Sling gun (55) and Armourweave (20) to any fighter with Leading By Example (12"/6"). Also the Leader no longer receives a free Xenos weapon.
Cool tests for fleeing the battlefield is moved to End phase (described in the same way in Goliath book).

FIXED ERRORS FROM ERRATA (2020-09-02):
Page 33, 35, 37 & 46: Phyrr Cat is 120 credits on the fighter page and 130 credits in the house weapon lists. Comment: Correct cost is 120 (not 130).
Page 115: Boltgun Am 4+. Comment: Correct Am is 6+.
Page 115: Wyld bow D '-'. Comment: Correct Damage is 1.
Page 117: Power knife has the profile of Power Axe. Comment: Corrected to use power knife profile.
Page 117: Venom Claw is missing Melee trait. Comment: Now includes Melee.

It is a real shame they don't seem to have got a grip on proofreading for this game still.

Props to Baxx, that is a very through list

Yes, that's very comprehensive - (one note, think you've mentioned Water Guild twice when you meant Cold Traders, but it's clear what you mean)

And "Chem-syth" makes me laugh. Darth Vader on drugs.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Props to Baxx, that is a very through list

Thanks, however I forgot to mention this list has been reported from many necromunda champions over at yaktribe. The goal is to identify and hopefully get an official errata, or at least make them visible so people who play with each other can agree on how to fix them.


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 Graphite wrote:
Yes, that's very comprehensive - (one note, think you've mentioned Water Guild twice when you meant Cold Traders, but it's clear what you mean)

And "Chem-syth" makes me laugh. Darth Vader on drugs.

Yeah it was originally formatted differently with bullet points from another forum.

Chem-syth is just thrown in there for fun, not a big deal (in my opinion), unlike other errors like having 2 different costs for Phyrr cat, which is annoying.

Baxx wrote:

Changes and updates:
Water Guild: Now specifies how many fighters are part of the Nautican Syphoning Delegation: 1 Leader, 1 Champion and 1 Ganger. Comment: It was expected to have 1 ganger instead of 2 like most other alliances, since this fighter has very strong stats (similar to Ogryn).
Water Guild: Xenos Artefacts changed from -2 Legality for Xenos items (Black Market) to fixed prices for Sling gun (55) and Armourweave (20) to any fighter with Leading By Example (12"/6"). Also the Leader no longer receives a free Xenos weapon.
Cool tests for fleeing the battlefield is moved to End phase (described in the same way in Goliath book).

Were both of these for the Water Guild or possible for the Cold Traders?

Goonhammer review is up and gives a decent rundown of the new book:

https://www.goonhammer.com/necromunday-house-of-blades-review/

Baxx wrote:
Thanks, however I forgot to mention this list has been reported from many necromunda champions over at yaktribe. The goal is to identify and hopefully get an official errata, or at least make them visible so people who play with each other can agree on how to fix them.

And I can keep sending the queries/issues directly to Andy if you want.

Go ahead, can't hurt, but I'm not holding my breath.

Several of the sold out tactics cards people are so crazy about have awful quality too, but I don't have enough energy to go through them all.


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 zedmeister wrote:
Goonhammer review is up and gives a decent rundown of the new book:

https://www.goonhammer.com/necromunday-house-of-blades-review/

Nice to see they mention some of the errors. It is a little bit shallow. Noticed they summarized how many combinations you could make with the new chems, but couldn't help thinking that not all chems can be combined freely (some are blasts only, others are template only).

Some discussions are leaning towards Escher being very weak after this update, partially because of the cost increase.


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 Vain wrote:

Were both of these for the Water Guild or possible for the Cold Traders?

Thanks, you are right, last one applies to Cold Traders. It is updated.

 The Phazer wrote:
It is a real shame they don't seem to have got a grip on proofreading for this game still.

No need to waste resources on additional proof reading.
Effectively, this is the third book to keep us up to date with Escher in three years.
People continue to buy (If I don’t buy this GW will stop making anything for Necromunda), so it would seem pointless to put in any more effort.

 privateer4hire wrote:

 The Phazer wrote:
It is a real shame they don't seem to have got a grip on proofreading for this game still.

No need to waste resources on additional proof reading.
Effectively, this is the third book to keep us up to date with Escher in three years.
People continue to buy (If I don’t buy this GW will stop making anything for Necromunda), so it would seem pointless to put in any more effort.

You're describing capitalism.

Would be interesting to know how many people do, in fact, "continue to buy".

There have definitely been people who bought into the initial Gang Wars, maybe were convinced to get the compendium later, but have stopped purchasing since. And, on the other end of the spectrum, people who only started buying with the "House of..." books as these could conceivably actually be the final versions for some time to come. (Something obviously also believed with the Gang War books, and then the compendium, but surely, this time for real... surely..?)

Honestly its hard to conceive of GW changing the pattern again after individual gang books. Changing the core book and releasing expansion books sure; but I'd wager with core books out they'd settle the game into a similar pattern as their main franchise games.

It's just that Necromunda has rapidly evolved from what was basically a testing out starter set and a few more gangs to a full blown long term game

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Would be interesting to know how many people do, in fact, "continue to buy”

Most people, as most buyers probably aren’t playing Necromunda as much as reading and painting Necromunda.

Games Workshop were never good at the rules part and so long as the books and minis sell they will never be a priority.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Would be interesting to know how many people do, in fact, "continue to buy”

Most people, as most buyers probably aren’t playing Necromunda as much as reading and painting Necromunda.

Games Workshop were never good at the rules part and so long as the books and minis sell they will never be a priority.

Good point - not likely to get many games of anything this side of Christmas.

So reading stuff is main way to enjoy the Warhammer worlds

It seems likely to me that they will produce the remaining three gang books next year and introduce a new edition at the end of 2021 or early 22.

Well, I know for sure that I am one that stopped buying Necromunda books altogether. And boy are there reasons to do it.

The amount of errors in that book is pitiful. Absolutely pitiful that something like that was even printed.

 The Phazer wrote:
It is a real shame they don't seem to have got a grip on proofreading for this game still.

This game? Try GW products in general. But people keep lapping them up, so it's not like they've a reason to pay for proof readers.

 The Phazer wrote:
It is a real shame they don't seem to have got a grip on proofreading for this game still.

A surprise they haven't hired Baxx to do it tbh. I have a feeling we'd get a decent book if they did.

Maybe they will for N21.

It would take minimal effort to clean up the majority of these issues. Many are repeat offenders going on for years. I interpret it as a lack of respect from GW, both to the game and to the players.

The book may be fun and good in many aspects and can be enjoyed by most people. At the same time it is flawed and could have been a lot better.

Given that this is the same new and improved GW who let an entire edition of 40K pass with broken Assault weapon rules which were identified as a problem before the game even officially launched, I don't know why anybody would expect anything else from them...

They blatantly don't give a poop, and unless people stop buying what they're squeezing out, nothing will change.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Given that this is the same new and improved GW who let an entire edition of 40K pass with broken Assault weapon rules which were identified as a problem before the game even officially launched

The assault weapon thing was only a "problem" for a small group of trolls who fixated on one sentence and refused to look at the rest of the page. It was nowhere near as bad as examples on this page, because it was plainly obvious what the rule was (even to said trolls, only one of two of them pretended otherwise) with zero guesswork involved.

That said, I am last person who excuses GW writers (having stated tons of times some of them are plainly incompetent) but that's what happens when small company with initial crew grows organically. What you'd rather do? Fire the early members and replace them with mechanically competent people who might not have any 'feel' of the setting resulting in what many would term 'soulless' game? Or accept nobody is perfect and play with rules as intended, with GW FAQs ruling on said intent in ambiguous cases (ignoring dumb trolls who try to bait people insisting only RAW exists and a single typo means game is LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE)? Said FAQs have gotten much better in last two years, BTW, sure, they could be even better but hey, baby steps, I will take it over Kelly leaving Eldar completely broken for two editions with no GW changes.

Also, funnily enough, GW had a competent writer who could deliver one of the most balanced editions in 40K history, with little FAQs and changes needed, tight ruleset, the works. I seem to recall loud, extremely vocal yet tiny minority of whiners hounded him out of company because while the guy certainly 'got' the setting and put many nice details from Rogue Trader back in, they didn't liked literally a single sentence he wrote. When you have clowns who don't care about rules, only to make their own pet sub-faction look good, and are ready to ruin the game because they can't stand SM chapters liking one primarch, maybe, just maybe, it's not really GW's fault we're in this mess, you know.

 Irbis wrote:
That said, I am last person who excuses GW writers (having stated tons of times some of them are plainly incompetent) but that's what happens when small company with initial crew grows organically. What you'd rather do? Fire the early members and replace them with mechanically competent people who might not have any 'feel' of the setting resulting in what many would term 'soulless' game? Or accept nobody is perfect and play with rules as intended, with GW FAQs ruling on said intent in ambiguous cases (ignoring dumb trolls who try to bait people insisting only RAW exists and a single typo means game is LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE)? Said FAQs have gotten much better in last two years, BTW, sure, they could be even better but hey, baby steps, I will take it over Kelly leaving Eldar completely broken for two editions with no GW changes.

That reasoning simply doesn't fly for GW, particularly for the Specialist Games. Andy Hoare, the Specialist Games Manager, started working at GW a full 25 years after it was formed, and that's the most veteran member of the whole team. James Hewitt, the actual designer of the game, only worked at GW for two years and wasn't even "raised" on it. Also, as far as I know, he wasn't even alive in 1975.

Plus, I've worked at GW, and there's nothing "small company" in it, except for them being really, really stingy. Not even at the level I worked.

I think it’s actually the opposite problem, a lot of their employees are just doing a job. They’re not game obsessed, OCD, nerds who’ve committed the entire game to memory like hardcore fans, therefore they don’t spot this stuff.

 Jadenim wrote:
I think it’s actually the opposite problem, a lot of their employees are just doing a job. They’re not game obsessed, OCD, nerds who’ve committed the entire game to memory like hardcore fans, therefore they don’t spot this stuff.

Not good enough.

This isn't people not having the same interpretation as other players who spend more time thinking about it. These are actual errors in the text.

Take the very first example from this book: The power blade has the power axe's profile, and Escher cannot purchase the power axe anymore as it's not on their list. This was noticed immediately upon people getting the book. Such a mistake shouldn't be made.

Now if it was just that mistake, then fine, no one is perfect. Things will slip through; it's inevitable. But look at Baxx's list. It's HUGE.

You don't have to be an "obsessed OCD nerd" to see these things, but hey, way to rag on everyone who finds mistakes. Real classy!

I'd like to know how many writers their team has, cause I know for sure Hewitt laid the groundwork for Necromunda and Adeptus Titanicus. They probably have one or two dudes working on all the games under the specialist games umbrella.

But they aren't going to change if we just whine about it on here. Gotta make a stink about it on social media, and embarass them. They aren't going to hire a proofreader or something unless they are publicly shamed en masse about it. People are content to just gripe about it, and then buy the next book. But they are shifty cause they know that we know if this stuff doesn't sell they'll have no problem dumping these games like they did the last time.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

You don't have to be an "obsessed OCD nerd" to see these things

but you need to know the game and/or have played it at least once to spot such mistakes

chance is high that those people writing the books/checking for mistakes never ever played it and therefore don't know if those things are typos/mistakes or intendet changes

or even if the changes make sense because they don't know anymore which game use which version of the rules as there are several around and some people might already started with a brainstorming for 10th Edition 40k.

the mistakes we see in most of the GW games are exactly that, written by people who have never played the final version (which was released) of the game on their own

 kodos wrote:
chance is high that those people writing the books/checking for mistakes never ever played it...

I find that very hard to believe. Specialist isn't a big team, and the idea that the people in that team aren't even familiar with the products they are proof-reading strikes me as almost impossible.

Even if you're not familiar with what you're proof reading, cross referencing stats within the same book is part of what a competent proof reader does.

 Jadenim wrote:
I think it’s actually the opposite problem, a lot of their employees are just doing a job. They’re not game obsessed, OCD, nerds who’ve committed the entire game to memory like hardcore fans, therefore they don’t spot this stuff.

Well, that's my situation at my day job too, and I manage to actually do stuff right from time to time.


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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 kodos wrote:
chance is high that those people writing the books/checking for mistakes never ever played it...

I find that very hard to believe. Specialist isn't a big team, and the idea that the people in that team aren't even familiar with the products they are proof-reading strikes me as almost impossible.

Plus, it's not really that much stuff. Even if you're completely unfamiliar with it, you'll be up to speed in a week, tops, and then misreferencing is just plain unprofessional.

Most likely they're not budgeting time, people and money for proof reading. In any project you need to have a realistic deadline where you say pencils down and from there on only revise and correct what you have.

Over the years my feeling has been GW writers have more enthusiasm than discipline and are throwing in 'cool new stuff' until the very end.

I've long felt that the core issue is that they've very casual writers in the core team that tends to result in a process that isn't a technical as could be.
That and we know that GW compartmentalises things to "stop leaks" which I think also results in breakdowns here and there. Things like when balancing changes a base size but no one tells manufacture.

Heck at its worst we had something like AoS come out when almost no one not directly on that team had any idea it was coming - least from what we can tell.


Even though AOS is a great example that improved balanced rules DO sell games; I think we won't see the wholesale shift to more technical writing and production of a game until GW loses some key staff in design positions and replaces them with a different style of rules writer. Of course the risk is that it could go the other way - we end up wit ha perfectly brilliant technical set of rules for a game that isn't as "fun"

You're not going to convince me anyone at GW plays Necromunda when there are whole concepts in it that just don't work mechanically.

When the old 13th Company rules came out way back when in late 3rd or early 4th edition, someone published a skit on GW forums that went something like this:

Gav and Jervis are lounging about in the office drinking beer
As a random intern passes by, Gav sticks a £20 bill in their pocket and says "Here, kid, go make a werewolf codex".

This is about the level of effort that goes into Necromunda, and, in fact, most GW rules product.

The quality control of Necromunda rules is utterly abysmal even by GW standards and that they're super slow to FAQ the game makes it even worse.

The FAQs are something special. Like adding more confusion in some cases. Or being plain rude in others, for example on the topic of paying for hired guns' weapons & equpment. Or surprising changes that no one asked for or expected. For example the limitation to pets is per fighter, not gang. I see people to this day being surprised about that ruling. FAQs sometimes also share the same bad quality, so can include sloppy copy-paste mistakes.

FAQs are also few and far between. We may never see any FAQs for the House of Books, and they will certainly never be exhaustive.

Baxx wrote:
Or being plain rude in others, for example on the topic of paying for hired guns' weapons & equpment.

They didn't even answer the question...

 kodos wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

You don't have to be an "obsessed OCD nerd" to see these things

but you need to know the game and/or have played it at least once to spot such mistakes

chance is high that those people writing the books/checking for mistakes never ever played it and therefore don't know if those things are typos/mistakes or intendet changes

or even if the changes make sense because they don't know anymore which game use which version of the rules as there are several around and some people might already started with a brainstorming for 10th Edition 40k.

the mistakes we see in most of the GW games are exactly that, written by people who have never played the final version (which was released) of the game on their own

Yep, that’s what I was getting at and I wasn’t trying to justify or excuse it; HBMC is correct, it isn’t good enough. It’s just we gamers are coming at this from a very different mindset and experience than the writers. Oh and for the record I very much considered myself to be an OCD nerd, apologies if that game across as demeaning or dismissive.

An FAQ for HoB is up on the war comm site.

5 issues fixed:

- Phyrr cat 120 credits (not 130)
- Correct profile for Boltgun (Am 6+)
- Correct Damage 1 for Wyld Bow (not '-')
- Correct profile for Power knife (not power axe profile)
- Added Melee to Venom Claw.

No surprise. The only debatable issue was Phyrr cat's cost.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I wonder if the regular Ogryn heads will work with this kit...

This works well, btw. The regular Ogryn heads mount on the new Ogryn necks without any modification, and look fine. They seem ever-so-slightly larger than the new heads, but not enough for anyone to tell the difference.

Beyond that, the Ogryn kit is the most disappointing of the "no options" Necromunda kits so far. At least the other kits gave you the arms/hands necessary to do your own thing and convert loadouts not included in the box... the Ogryn kit doesn't even offer that.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
You're not going to convince me anyone at GW plays Necromunda when there are whole concepts in it that just don't work mechanically.

When the old 13th Company rules came out way back when in late 3rd or early 4th edition, someone published a skit on GW forums that went something like this:

Gav and Jervis are lounging about in the office drinking beer
As a random intern passes by, Gav sticks a £20 bill in their pocket and says "Here, kid, go make a werewolf codex".

This is about the level of effort that goes into Necromunda, and, in fact, most GW rules product.

This strikes me as accurate. The Sentry rules -- as usual -- are one of the obvious nodes to hypothesize around. Nobody could play actual games while properly using those rules and not conclude "these are weird and don't work." Huge parts of the game feel like they've never been playtested even once.