JohnHwangDD wrote: I paid a little extra shipping to get my Kingdom Death stuff, and I groused a little bit. In the case of Palladium, my willingness to pay shipping depends in large part on what, exactly, Wave 2 is going to be like.
If Wave 2 is going to match Wave 1, such that everything matches in scale, material and detail (specifically the MAC-II Monster that I paid extra for), then I'd be willing to pay $10-ish to get it.
If Wave 2 is going to be gakky lo-rez, lo-fi PVC, then no fething way. PB should pay for that.
I sincerely doubt that PB would be willing to ship you one of their crappy splatbooks for $10 shipping...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Morgan Vening wrote: So, I'm curious if any of the people willing to pay shipping for Wave 2 (several who post here), would be willing to do so if it'd essentially be a donation, when others wouldn't.
If PB had the money to produce wave two, but didn't have the money to ship wave two, they could get enough people to pay up to make it happen. Look at the way people happily bend over (and over and over) at the SoBKS. Every time there's another announcement of another delay (but they're producing more stuff you can pay extra for!) the first dozen comments are people begging to give them more money.
Of course, with PB, you'll never get a chicken without an egg, so it doesn't matter.
For the zentraedi the only real build you can do with the core is everything in the core. Rinse repeat with extra stuff to 300 points. 3 Glaug and 3 recon give lots of command points and Ecm abilities the uedf do not have. And always pay for the veteran warriors.
Earth side.....with extras I would do 3 destroid cores (anything with tomahawks). with vf-1 as support units.
Morgan Vening wrote: I see the RRT Commentary is currently having a small unofficial poll over whether on not people would be willing to re-pay for shipping Wave 2 if it meant getting their stuff. Several have volunteered to, and several have said nopes.
My question is, would those people who are willing to pay be fine paying if others weren't? Because shipping in some cases is going to be excessive, especially international backers, exacerbated if VAT etc is included. And as it is unfair to volunteer not just yourself, but all backers, to require shipping to deliver on the outstanding contract, what you would essentially be doing is donating money to Palladium.
I'm just not sure if those offering to pay for shipping would balk at the idea, if others didn't. I've noticed an intrinsic issue people have with things being fair. One campaign that's late, offered everyone a free reward for being late. Completely free, no extra cost. But the people who pledged the most, got comparatively less (people paying less than $70 got +$40 value, people paying $70+ got +$30 value). And people got angry. Another campaign offered an expansion of the core components of several expansions totaling ~$90 for a flat $50. But some people already paid for some of those as an option, and so those that paid in advance would have paid $90, and those who did this add-on several years later got the same product for $50.
So, I'm curious if any of the people willing to pay shipping for Wave 2 (several who post here), would be willing to do so if it'd essentially be a donation, when others wouldn't.
Ha! We all know how good PB is with Polling.
Also had an idea....
I was thinking about how screwed up blast is with the present incarnation, even with the fixes provided in the FAQ.
What would you think of adding a 2 inch, 3 inch, and 4 inch blast marker to the game?
The area of each would be as follows...
2 Inch = ~12.6 inches^2
3 Inch = ~28.3 inches^2
4 Inch = ~50.3 inches^2
5 Inch = ~75.5 inches^2
If the player decides to shoot multiple blast missiles at the same place to make a larger blast then he can.
For Missiles with a 2 inch blast.
2 Blast Missiles = 3 inch template
3 Blast Missiles = 3 inch template w/damage bonus?
4 Blast Missiles = 4 inch template
5 Blast Missiles = 4 inch template w/damage bonus?
6 Blast Missiles = 5 inch template
Blast does full damage of a single missile to everything under the marker. Do not add the damage from each individual missile to the total.
The centerpoint does double damage and/or becomes inescapable as long as 2 or more missiles are used to create a larger blast area.
The target under the center of the blast can use Anti-Missile normally.
All other units under the blast will be able to use Anti-Missile with a -1 modifier to the roll.
Units that do not have the center of their base under the blast but only an edge cannot use Anti-Missile.
Missiles that roll a 1 on the Strike roll are removed from play and do not roll for scatter.
Phalanx missiles would drop to a 2 inch radius.
Heavy Battlepod missiles would have a 4 or 5 inch radius.
MPA and FPA grenades would have a 4 or 5 inch radius
Heavy Missiles would have a 2 inch radius and be reduced in cost accordingly.
This rule would in effect
1. Reduce the power of the Phalanx
2. Reduce the danger presented by Veritechs with LRMs.
3. Speed up the game as players will more likely combine blast missiles to make a larger effect than try to roll each individually.
4. The changes to how Anti-Missile handles Blast weapons will speed up gameplay.
Merijeek wrote: Look at the way people happily bend over (and over and over) at the SoBKS. Every time there's another announcement of another delay (but they're producing more stuff you can pay extra for!) the first dozen comments are people begging to give them more money.
Which kickstarter are you referring to? Is there a Sister's of Battle kickstarter?
Merijeek wrote: Look at the way people happily bend over (and over and over) at the SoBKS. Every time there's another announcement of another delay (but they're producing more stuff you can pay extra for!) the first dozen comments are people begging to give them more money.
Which kickstarter are you referring to? Is there a Sister's of Battle kickstarter?
He's referring to the Shadows of Brimstone Kickstarter. It's been ridiculously delayed, and some of the initial promises were pretty stupid.
The big differences (especially for people like me who are critical of RRT and not SoB) for those that back seem to come down to a few significant points.
First was that Palladium explicitly (and repeatedly) said "Backers first". FFP (Flying Frog Productions, the creators of SoB) did not. So, when items went retail, before backers got theirs, some people lost their minds. Others, were a little irked, but whatever. Note, that with a few minor exceptions (mostly Australians), most backers got their two core sets before they went retail.
Second, the difference in volume is staggering. PB have what, 40 unique models that they have to make? With FFP it's well above 100. And while the bulk are smaller, there are also quite a few much larger (I think Belial is 9" or so tall). Like PB, FFP lost their heads a little during the campaign, and well overpromised.
Which, when combining the two earlier points, FFP have been releasing to retail a selection of models and are gearing up for the final release. Note, that contrary to some claims, this is neither "all" or even "most" of what's coming, at least for MineCart backers. Again, some people are mad about FFP releasing to the public, it's at least showing that progress IS being made. Completely different to what PB have done, where no visible progress has been made. Similarly, while both campaigns have been absolutely horrible about communication, when FFP DO communicate, there's tangible evidence of work having been done. It might not be as fast as some people want, but it's enough that I'm not willing to call PB and FFP equivalent.
And while it's not been publicized, when asked, FFP have been fairly open about offering pro-rata'd refunds for those unhappy to wait. Compared to PB's response to that question. In some cases, this is likely to actually make them money, as in some cases (like mine), they're probably going to lose money on my pledge. This is because like PB, FFP offered fixed shipping. I was charged $40 for my Minecart pledge. The initial box was something like 24" x 15" x 10". That in itself going slowboat freight, would have cost $80+. Shipping out piecemeal is just out of the question.
There have been some other issues that have caused consternation among the backers. - Because of the overextension on what was promised, FFP limited the amount of overpurchase that people could make during the Pledge Manager. I may be wrong in the details here, but people who didn't back for a Battlecry could only upgrade to a Battlecry. People who backed at Battlecry could upgrade to a Reckless (comparative price, content significantly more diverse) and/or get another Battlecry. People who backed at Reckless could get another Reckless and/or a Battlecry or two. This annoyed some people who backed low, saw that interest post campaign was significant, and wanted to profit off their pledge. People have different opinions on speculators, I don't care. But I also don't have any sympathy if they get screwed because they're not putting money in. Putting in a dollar, seeing demand go up, THEN wanting to paying a heavily discounted price and being denied? Meh. My heart bleeds. - Some backers wanted to not wait until everything was bundled to backers. So they offered to pay FFP actual shipping, to get what became known as Wave 1.5. FFP made this offer open to all backers, at an IMO not unreasonable price. Some backers saw this as extortion. - During development, FFP decided to expand the contents of some of the products that will eventually go to retail. Backers were offered the opportunity to either get this new content, at Kickstarter equivalent prices to get the expanded retail content, OR they could get exactly what was promised during the campaign, at no additional cost. Again, some backers saw this as extortion. - Some people were unhappy that while not explicitly mentioned, the models came in multi-part. So some assembly was required. Nothing close to as egregious as the RRT models, most being 3-4 pieces including base. Some were single, but I think the most complex were 8-9 and they were bigger models. - Some people are unhappy that some material won't come with retail packaging. All game components will be included, just not the box. This has irked some.
Now, FFP have made some missteps. And some even bigger miscalculations. But they do seem to be committed to completing the project to which people backed, and for the cost that people initially paid (assuming that person didn't want it earlier, or expanded, there's been no additional cost). I'll admit I'm more than a little biased. Of the 80+ projects I've backed, none have come close to the playtime or even to the value for money, that SoB has. I've easily played 50+ games, and that's just with the two initial boxes, putting playing time at well over 100 hours on the tabletop.
What the critics haven't done yet, is give a solution. They complain about the circumstances, but seem unable to give an answer that would allow FFP to remain financially viable enough to complete their promise to backers. Either... FFP refuse to release product to the market, meaning like RRT, the game dies while waiting for expansion materials. FFP send it out to backers as it goes retail, at their cost. Given shipping costs that's a complete non-starter. They'd be bankrupt before they got it half done. FFP send it out to backers, at backers cost. They tried this, and some took them up on it, some didn't, and some screamed blue murder. FFP send it out to backers when it's completed. What other options do they have?
I can understand people being upset with FFP's inability to deliver in a timely manner. But they're just not the same. While both FFP and PB overpromised, and as of yet are still to complete, and while both are crap at communicating, and while neither has been a great Kickstarter experience, I think anyone who draws them as equivalent is being disingenuous. Both are (arguably) bad. PB is much worse.
EDIT: DAMMIT! Ninja'd by Alpharius! Knew I should have been brief.
I really wonder how much longer they can go.. Gen Con is just around the corner and the end of the year will creep up on us before we know it.
What real evidence have we been given that Palladium is really working on Wave 2? No 3D renders, No real timelines... just a weekly .. "we are working on it"
If you had someone working on your car that kept saying that and you already paid for the service.. After a few months you would have your car towed to
another shop and call a lawyer to sue...
But after reading some of the comments from "mad mike -super fan friend" on the rifts kick-starter, he was very vocal about always talking to lawyers, so I am
sure that is why they keep saying they are "working on it".. because that's what they were advised to keep doing..kick starter legal loophole..
No worries, as your synopsis was good and detailed - and reminded me to go check on the Brimstone KS (no, no Minecart backers have reported getting their Wave 2 stuff yet!).
You key point is VERY critical though - while many are still waiting for their WAVE 2 stuff on the Brimstone KS, there is a lot of actual, physical evidence that WAVE 2 stuff there actually was worked on, produced and available!
But after reading some of the comments from "mad mike -super fan friend" on the rifts kick-starter, he was very vocal about always talking to lawyers, so I am
sure that is why they keep saying they are "working on it".. because that's what they were advised to keep doing..kick starter legal loophole..
Pretty much!
I don't know how 'true' or 'legal' it is, but it seems as if they continue to 'work on it', they can string this out...forever?
I don't think they'll ever want to actually admit failure, because then they'll be obligated to show where the money went, and it looks like that's something they'll never want to do.
Merijeek wrote: Thing is, I doubt there's a whole lot of people claiming that SoB and RRT are "equivalent".
However, I don't think that RRT being a bigger gak show excuses how badly SoB has been run.
I don't think anyone has said that.
But we are comparing and contrasting them, and Morgan went into detail about how they each stack up.
On a scale of 1 to 10, it's entirely possible to have RRT at a 2 and SoB at a 6. Flawed, imperfect, with substantial issues worth raising, but it's not remotely a binary "both are late and both suck at communication so both are equally bad", and I have seen people compare them directly.
It is possible to say "Y'know, I wish FFP were better on communication and hadn't bitten off so much" while also recognizing RRT is "a dumpster fire" without them both being directly equated.
I will take "late, but eventually delivered" over this running gag. I will take a unfortunately long delivery time frame with a game I enjoy over a non-existent time frame for a game that's 'okay at best' from what I've gathered from most who play it. I've got maybe a dozen models built and gave up on wasting more time on a game I was unlikely to find opponents for in the first place.
Selling off the vast majority of what I received helped blunt some of that impact, because PB isn't giving refunds, whereas anyone who is still 'salty' over SoB should've written FFP for one and quite possibly gotten one ages ago.
It's almost like context and nuance are pertinent to the discussion. :-D
Alpharius wrote: You key point is VERY critical though - while many are still waiting for their WAVE 2 stuff on the Brimstone KS, there is a lot of actual, physical evidence that WAVE 2 stuff there actually was worked on, produced and available!
This was the same thing with KD:M 1.0 - while Updates were few and far between, what Updates we got were epic and substantial, showing undeniable progress toward delivery. That made a big difference, and gave me the confidence to increase my pledge from something very limited to something much more comprehensive.
Snort. I just got an update from another KS and checked some dates. In the time that this RRT gakshow has been going on, plus 20 days, Dwarven Forge has ran and delivered on 3 KS, and is starting delivery on its 4th, with a 5th KS planned for early next month.
Yup. I remember people arguing about how DF completing 2 in the time it basically took PB to deliver Wave 1 wasn't a big deal or comparable. Because crafting a bunch of (tiny fiddly) minis was an entirely different thing from the pieces of terrain DF was making.
Well now they're doing stuff with magnets and embedded metal plates and LED's and are about to launch KS5 and boy, I think I was proven right on that one.
4 campaigns down and only one has ended up being substantially late (by about 4-5 months or so), compared to... this gakshow.
And that's why, even with delays, I still consider DF to be among the better (if not among the best) companies using Kickstarter.
A compare and contrast effort between two campaigns will always run across similarities and ways they're not at all similar, but in broad strokes they're my go to for "Yeah, large KS campaigns are often late... but not always."
I've lost track - does PB have anything else that they'll be throwing up as a roadblock to just telling everyone what they've been doing for Wave 2 now?
There's no Rifts Boardgame to worry about.
We've seen the Gencon schedule, such as it is.
Surely they've received all the outstanding quotes they've been waiting for by now, right?
For comparison, Cthulhu Wars was kickstarted around the same time, with a similar number of backers and for a similar amount of money. It was also run by a rpg game designer with thirty years in the biz, but no miniature experience. It is just shipping its second kickstarter.
And it's fun, or at least I've enjoyed the games I've played.
Though one faction has an *obnoxious* ability that I'm not entirely sure how to handle without it becoming a group effort (and that person feeling picked on... because they are... because leaving them alone isn't a viable strategy).
A good reference, but not the one I was thinking of.
I think it's the blue faction? The one with the ability to grab other people's portals and move them?
That one can get messy and out of hand quickly if you don't shut their gak down, or spam as many onto the table as a group as quickly as possible so they have nowhere to go (can't have two on the same spot, as I recall).
It's been ages since we played, so the particulars are fuzzy.
Forar wrote: And it's fun, or at least I've enjoyed the games I've played.
Though one faction has an *obnoxious* ability that I'm not entirely sure how to handle without it becoming a group effort (and that person feeling picked on... because they are... because leaving them alone isn't a viable strategy).
Cthulhu Wars is like that. You can't leave any faction alone, ever.
Oh, right, I remember that one. I took a look but there were only a couple of models that interested me and I didn't need a new game system so I passed. Hmm, I wonder what the chances are of justing picking up a couple of individual models at some point? Do people sell individual bits of boardgames on ebay or on bits sites?
Also, this Dwarven Forge stuff looks really good. Hmm...
Edit: and to loop back around to this campaign, I feel confident saying (even without a delivery target) that DF KS5 will deliver before RRT wave 2 does. I mean, same with KS6, 7, 8, 15, etc.
PALLADIUM BOOKS® WEEKLY UPDATE – MAY 19, 2017
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ and other books
Never forgotten, we are trying to pull some things together that would be pretty epic. More when we have something solid to report. Meanwhile, more of the original Robotech® RPG books from the 1980s and 1990s are being made available as PDF editions on DriveThruRPG.com every week (more or less). And the current Robotech® RPG titles will soon be available as ebooks. We will keep you posted on all fronts.
Nothing like the old Kevin to inspire you to think something is being done to Robotech Tactics.
You know the thing I find funny is how PB's idea of advertising is advertising to those who already have the items, they do no outside advertising of any sorts, no promotions, no nothing.
I was on the Palladium forums just a few days ago, seeing if they had updated anything about RTT on there...
Of course they didn't but I read a post from Mad Man Mike about help supporting the games..
Here is his post..
Spoiler:
My day job (evenings actually, 3-11PM) is in assisted living, so I work out of a house. This house is in a college town and the house next door is rental property that's been empty for over a year. A couple of weeks ago some students moved in, and several times when I've gone out to get something out of my car later in the evening they've been hanging out on the porch talking.
Two nights ago I overheard one of them say "..first level fireball spell that does 2D10." I had to see what that was about so I went over and questioned what system would allow such a power move. One immediately commented "Only in Rolla Missouri can a random passer-by hear you talking D&D and know what it's about."
Yeah, they play 5e, but when they asked if I played and I said Palladium, they hadn't heard of it. When I said Rifts one said "Oh, that's that game Spencer was talking about, the one he loves the art for!" After chatting for a bit I told them I'd bring an extra copy of RUE for them to look at and see if they were interested in me running a game for them.
Yesterday I went by again and met Spencer. He was raised playing Rifts, and hit one key nail on the head. "If you don't have an old-school gamer to introduce you to the system, it's difficult to get into it. The settings are awesome but the rules are difficult to learn."
That's not an insult to the system, it's a window into the changes our society has gone through. Us geezers can go out of our way to bring new blood into the fold, but I think it's about time we streamlined the rules to bring them in in droves..
So basically the Game Shops where he lives in doesn't carry the product yet he is someone that is a regular contributor to Palladium, but why doesn't he try to push the game by hosting games there and requesting product to be carried.
The other weird thing is he gave a book to a complete stranger he met in the streets in hopes that he would like the game, that is a very big gamble. Plus he should be asking himself why the younger generation isn't aware of the product.
The times I have spoken to shop owners and the topic of Palladium comes up, their comments is that a very small number of players have interest and most of the time their product just sits on the shelf for years. On top of that, one shop
commented that they try to order stuff but are consistently late on shipping product; Usually at least six to eight months late, so how do you build interest in a game when you don't know when you are going to get it. The other thing is to keep interest in your product you need regular release to keep it in the eyes of people.. If we only got one star wars release a year with no notice when it would deliver; I think it would wither away.
Plus word of mouth goes a long way..Just walk into a shop that still carries RTT, point blank ask the clerk about it. Most of the time they will either play dumb (just unaware) or they will be honest about the burning sewage pile that is the kickstarter.
Asterios wrote: You know the thing I find funny is how PB's idea of advertising is advertising to those who already have the items, they do no outside advertising of any sorts, no promotions, no nothing.
Firstly, Real Fans (tm) spread the word for Palladium. Kevin asks them to tell their friends and families, so they do. It's done a great job so far...
Secondly, Real Fans (tm) buy more than one of each book. What do they do with them? No clue. Maybe we should ask Jorel.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I guess it doesn't surprise me that posters on LAF are saying that they guy who is doing the painting for gRifts takes money and doesn't send what was paid for.
Asterios wrote: You know the thing I find funny is how PB's idea of advertising is advertising to those who already have the items, they do no outside advertising of any sorts, no promotions, no nothing.
Firstly, Real Fans (tm) spread the word for Palladium. Kevin asks them to tell their friends and families, so they do. It's done a great job so far...
Secondly, Real Fans (tm) buy more than one of each book. What do they do with them? No clue. Maybe we should ask Jorel.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I guess it doesn't surprise me that posters on LAF are saying that they guy who is doing the painting for gRifts takes money and doesn't send what was paid for.
No real hate here for Mike... More to the point of pity.. How most of the Fan Friends don't see any problem with the game.. the rules.. or how the company is ran...
Everyone has an opinion for every game company out there, but when most of the opinions match for the good or bad..usually it is a barometer of truth of what is really going on..
My posting was more to showing how unaware a contributor is to the public views of their game, this is the same reason that Adepticon report was
action packed with tons of visitors to their booth. It's the "glass is half full" or "almost empty but still has more than enough for everyone" kind of view.
It is good to stay positive about things when times are troubling.. but I am really not sure what Palladium is doing.. It seems more delusional than anything.
The reason the few remaining die hard contributors like Mike do not or can not see the issues are because they do not actually play, and in a number of cases have never played, anything BUT Palladium.
I cut my teeth on Top Secret/S.I. and Star Wars D6. Palladium back in the day was interesting and a bit different (to me as I never played D&D at the time) and the setting was very much up my alley.
When I had locals who played then playing was great ....but truth be told that is the case for any system.
Now we get "Oh I play Pathfinder, no I don't play D&D" etc. Players are becoming more snobbish in what they will and won't play as well so that does not help the hobby any. Again, back in the day (yes many of us are from back in the day you young whipper snappers) it usually didn't matter what the game was, we played to play and not because "oooo it's THIS game let's play". It is why I have 20ish different mini games on my shelf, all old, all enjoyed by me at least at one time or another.
Practically, it's not the RPG system that's the problem. Any setting can theoretically be adapted to another system, it's just the extra work the GM and players have to do. Convenience plays a part, definitely.
It's more the dearth of products. Every setting needs new products every now and then to keep the interest going. PB had Rifts going for a number of years, until basically their logistics got so bad that nobody wants to wait for their products any more.
Sure, the PB system is broken in some areas, but that is something the GM and his players can accommodate, since RPG is intrinsically a local social group event.
Robotech (to bring this back on topic) had so few releases over the years that there is basically no young audience that can continue the hobby. People still remember Macross because every few years they pump a new series out, but Robotech was a dead fish. Heck even HG tried more than PB, with the Shadow Chronicles film.
Using RRT as a RPG supplement to push for a revival could have worked out but it was a hard approach for a company that has few insights into the miniatures genre. That should be something PB recognize and adjusted for, but my opinion is that their arrogance at having survived that long as an independent has clouded judgement.
Genoside07 wrote: I was on the Palladium forums just a few days ago, seeing if they had updated anything about RTT on there...
Of course they didn't but I read a post from Mad Man Mike about help supporting the games..
Here is his post..
Spoiler:
My day job (evenings actually, 3-11PM) is in assisted living, so I work out of a house. This house is in a college town and the house next door is rental property that's been empty for over a year. A couple of weeks ago some students moved in, and several times when I've gone out to get something out of my car later in the evening they've been hanging out on the porch talking.
Two nights ago I overheard one of them say "..first level fireball spell that does 2D10." I had to see what that was about so I went over and questioned what system would allow such a power move. One immediately commented "Only in Rolla Missouri can a random passer-by hear you talking D&D and know what it's about."
Yeah, they play 5e, but when they asked if I played and I said Palladium, they hadn't heard of it. When I said Rifts one said "Oh, that's that game Spencer was talking about, the one he loves the art for!" After chatting for a bit I told them I'd bring an extra copy of RUE for them to look at and see if they were interested in me running a game for them.
Yesterday I went by again and met Spencer. He was raised playing Rifts, and hit one key nail on the head. "If you don't have an old-school gamer to introduce you to the system, it's difficult to get into it. The settings are awesome but the rules are difficult to learn."
That's not an insult to the system, it's a window into the changes our society has gone through. Us geezers can go out of our way to bring new blood into the fold, but I think it's about time we streamlined the rules to bring them in in droves..
So basically the Game Shops where he lives in doesn't carry the product yet he is someone that is a regular contributor to Palladium, but why doesn't he try to push the game by hosting games there and requesting product to be carried.
The other weird thing is he gave a book to a complete stranger he met in the streets in hopes that he would like the game, that is a very big gamble. Plus he should be asking himself why the younger generation isn't aware of the product.
The times I have spoken to shop owners and the topic of Palladium comes up, their comments is that a very small number of players have interest and most of the time their product just sits on the shelf for years. On top of that, one shop
commented that they try to order stuff but are consistently late on shipping product; Usually at least six to eight months late, so how do you build interest in a game when you don't know when you are going to get it. The other thing is to keep interest in your product you need regular release to keep it in the eyes of people.. If we only got one star wars release a year with no notice when it would deliver; I think it would wither away.
Plus word of mouth goes a long way..Just walk into a shop that still carries RTT, point blank ask the clerk about it. Most of the time they will either play dumb (just unaware) or they will be honest about the burning sewage pile that is the kickstarter.
I love how he deflects the issue with the RIFT's system away from that garbage and onto kids these days. and you notice how the one guy raved about the artwork, but nothing about the game, sorry but my BS meter is going haywire.
Well....mike is someone once said to me "kevin can't spent 4 months on book they need to produce more thats why book X isnt out yet" as if to say other stuff can be done faster thus kevin works on those instead........ just after Kevin had spent 4 months on what amounted to a splat book for rifts and gakky one at that. So you see people like him are as willfully blind/ingnorant as Kevin himself.
The reason I posted his comment is I am amazed how a company and the people associated with it are so blind of their problems.
This should be a clear sign of how Robotech Tactics will end.. It will drag on until the end of time, putting out a half baked expansion
years late and not what people are asking for.
That's why I pity them, they couldn't do a similar job in a corporate environment. Not sure what keeps the doors open and they have
no concern how to keep them open..
Genoside07 wrote: That's why I pity them, they couldn't do a similar job in a corporate environment. Not sure what keeps the doors open and they have no concern how to keep them open.
The corporate environment has plenty of its own issues, like the incredible amounts of unnecessary stress put upon individuals to garner a smidgen of extra profits. Just because you don't run a business like a corporation isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as you still run it like a business.
I assume that Kevin owns the building they're based in, so all he has to pay is property taxes and utilities. It's amazing how lean you can run if you don't need to turn a profit and only have a few people's wages to cover. So sales of previous efforts are allowing Palladium to coast along, and they probably only push new product out the door when it reaches a critical point. Basically, Kevin can afford to be lazy, or can afford to derp around doing whatever he does instead of actually getting stuff done - like writing Palladium newsletter updates.
Okay, so it's late, and mostly spoiled already, but the PBWU is up. And me being late is kinda fitting in with PB in general, so what the hell.
We open with a Rifter sale. Not for subscriptions, but for back copies. Really? Your introduction is selling old magazines (and only those currently in the warehouse) at a 30% discount? And when I say 30%, in typical PB fashion, I mean 30%. So we get amounts like $8.37, $9.77 and $17.47. Because when it comes to discount (as we know from the CGB's), PB are absolutely ridiculous about specificity that has no real meaning.
Then we get an explanation of why gRifts failed. Carmen, can you hear that? That's a bus. Carmen, that firm pressure on your back, that's Kevin pushing you under said bus. Of course, all of the problems with the campaign (as stated in the PBWU) is Carmen being unprepared. And don't get me wrong, he was. But PB's complicity in the project? Apparently not a factor at all. All Carmen's fault.
Then we have the RRT stuff that Genoside already showed on the previous page.
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ and other books Never forgotten, we are trying to pull some things together that would be pretty epic. More when we have something solid to report. Meanwhile, more of the original Robotech® RPG books from the 1980s and 1990s are being made available as PDF editions on DriveThruRPG.com every week (more or less). And the current Robotech® RPG titles will soon be available as ebooks. We will keep you posted on all fronts.
Seriously, I wonder how Kevin's able to write when he's so obviously jerking off as he types. Pretty epic? This is such a lost cause, Mr's Custer, Bowie and Crockett all would send their sympathies. Keep us posted on all fronts? Who's he trying to kid. I'd settle for being posted on one front. The man is delusional, or hoping we are.
Anyways, we finally have book rescheduling updates! And significant slideage! It was to be expected, but the two books scheduled for a May release have finally been timeshifted. I know, right? I'm just as shocked as you are.
HOH Arsenal has gone from May to Summer. Disavowed has gone from Spring/Summer to Summer. Garden of the Gods has gone from"tentative May/June" to Summer. Atlanteans has gone from May to June. Sovietski has remained static as Summer. Dark Designs is now June instead of June/July. I'll add in Face of Death listed as Summer/Fall, as that also lists all the books that are in the "Coming Soon 2017" section.
Note, that in this PBWU from January 15th LAST YEAR, that Arsenal (originally part of HOH), Disavowed, Gardens, and Atlanteans were all listed as the first half of THAT year too. Plus another three books that have since been consigned to Later in 2017 and 2018. So for those keeping score, in the last 16 months since that PBWU, they've released one book "on time*" (Heroes came in just under the wire), and one book six months late (Hell Followed). And that's the total output of PB in almost 18 months (Ressurection shipped December 2nd, 2015). Wheee!
* That's based on the 2016 "Coming Soon" list. It's been on the schedule since at least early 2015 (as far back as I was willing to look). First appearance of a release date was November 20th, saying it'd be "early January", and he missed that target by a mile.
I give this PBWU . There was a real opportunity to max out at five, but he didn't throw RRT backers under the bus with Carmen in blaming them for the failure of gRifts, nor did he remind backers that it has been 4 years today, since Robotech funded.
Oh, and for those following along at home, in on the 2nd of May 2014, we saw the first actual sprues, and in three weeks we'll have the three year anniversary of RRT going into production (kind of). With delivery starting on October 3rd, which is 112 days. And for those bad at math, that puts the required start time for Wave 2, to be finished this year (and Kevin hasn't changed that date publicly, because he's bad at this) at September 10th. Which is ironically 112 days from now. So we are literally at the halfway point for this year to be possible. Anyone silly enough to take the under?
Merijeek wrote: Oh, and Rifts is a hard system to learn? No it isn't. It's a bad system. It's not a hard system.
Maybe I'm just nitpicking, but they're not mutually exclusive. It can be a bad system because it's hard to learn (in terms of poorly laid out rules, which are often inconsistent, counter-intuitive or overly complicated), or hard to learn because it's badly thought out.
As someone who spent over half a decade playing Rifts campaigns, I have no argument against it being both bad and hard to learn. The setting/possibilities were engaging, but there were plenty of times we had fun *in spite* of the mechanics rather than because of it.
It was fun enough for playing with friends at the time, but eventually we grew tired of fighting to make the system work, so we picked up D&D 3E when it came out, and other than a few Play By Post games, we never really looked back. (and then 4E became the love of my life, but that's another story)
Genoside07 wrote: That's why I pity them, they couldn't do a similar job in a corporate environment. Not sure what keeps the doors open and they have no concern how to keep them open.
The corporate environment has plenty of its own issues, like the incredible amounts of unnecessary stress put upon individuals to garner a smidgen of extra profits. Just because you don't run a business like a corporation isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as you still run it like a business.
I assume that Kevin owns the building they're based in, so all he has to pay is property taxes and utilities. It's amazing how lean you can run if you don't need to turn a profit and only have a few people's wages to cover. So sales of previous efforts are allowing Palladium to coast along, and they probably only push new product out the door when it reaches a critical point. Basically, Kevin can afford to be lazy, or can afford to derp around doing whatever he does instead of actually getting stuff done - like writing Palladium newsletter updates.
Actually the property is under lease in Wayne's name. Now haven't been able to verify but heard his lease is up soon and he may not be able to stay there much longer.As it goes something tells me Kevin was counting on the Kickstarter to fund (even though it wasn't his company nor did he have any authority over it and the project).
Actually the property is under lease in Wayne's name. Now haven't been able to verify but heard his lease is up soon and he may not be able to stay there much longer.As it goes something tells me Kevin was counting on the Kickstarter to fund (even though it wasn't his company nor did he have any authority over it and the project).
Under lease from whom, though? It all sounds pretty shady, like they're trying to obfuscate Palladium's assets.
Actually the property is under lease in Wayne's name. Now haven't been able to verify but heard his lease is up soon and he may not be able to stay there much longer.As it goes something tells me Kevin was counting on the Kickstarter to fund (even though it wasn't his company nor did he have any authority over it and the project).
Under lease from whom, though? It all sounds pretty shady, like they're trying to obfuscate Palladium's assets.
well lets see, Kevin had a garage sale at his address this recent Thur. thru Sat. ? anyone here anything about that? and surprised he didn't let all his fan friends know about it.
Giant Toy Sale - Liquidating Private Collection - May 18-20
Dates: Thursday, May 18, 2017 - Saturday, May 20, 2017
Address: 39074 Webb Ct, Westland, MI
Giant Toy Sale Inside Warehouse -- 100s of Star Wars toys - Marvel, DC
100s of Star Wars toys - Marvel, DC, Batman, & More!
39074 Webb Court - Westland, MI 48185 Star Wars -- 100s & 100s of action figures 1980s to 2008 Star Wars vehicles -- 1980s to 2006 Star Wars 12 inch figures -- 1990s to 2004 Star Wars Micro Machines -- 1990s Marvel Legends (many) Marvel Universe (many) Spider-Man (many) Avengers X-Men -- (many) Iron-Man (many) Fantastic Four (many) Spawn -- 100+ figures Superman Batman (many) Justice League/Total Justice Vintage GI Joe Vintage Ninja Turtles Star Trek - Aliens - Terminator - Robotech® Other Superhero Toys, Posters & Collectibles Most toys are very good to mint in package -- hundreds and hundreds of action figures - dozens of vehicles - some vintage 1980s and 1990s Star Wars, G.I. Joe figures and vehicles, Ninja Turtles and Thunder Cats, Marvel Superheroes and others. All priced to sell.All sales final. Cash preferred. Credit Cards accepted.39074 Webb Court, Westland, MI 48185; near I-275 and Ford Road; off of Warren, between Hix and Lotz. 10 AM to 7:00 PM.
by the way the above garage sale reeks of desperation me thinks, also me thinks Kevin does not want to scare his fans by mentioning it to them.
Forar wrote: It was fun enough for playing with friends at the time, but eventually we grew tired of fighting to make the system work, so we picked up D&D 3E when it came out, and other than a few Play By Post games, we never really looked back. (and then 4E became the love of my life, but that's another story)
Ohhhh, one of us, one of us!! (Well, not really, but it's the edition of D&D that I enjoy more playing and GMing, so there.)
Forar wrote: It was fun enough for playing with friends at the time, but eventually we grew tired of fighting to make the system work, so we picked up D&D 3E when it came out, and other than a few Play By Post games, we never really looked back. (and then 4E became the love of my life, but that's another story)
Add me to the 4E love train.
On topic, assembled my Breetai over the weekend. Honestly, it's not a bad model. You can tell where they cut some corners with the sculpt, but mold lines were almost non-existent. It was a nice change of pace from some more complex modern molds.
Actually the property is under lease in Wayne's name. Now haven't been able to verify but heard his lease is up soon and he may not be able to stay there much longer.As it goes something tells me Kevin was counting on the Kickstarter to fund (even though it wasn't his company nor did he have any authority over it and the project).
Under lease from whom, though? It all sounds pretty shady, like they're trying to obfuscate Palladium's assets.
well lets see, Kevin had a garage sale at his address this recent Thur. thru Sat. ? anyone here anything about that? and surprised he didn't let all his fan friends know about it.
Giant Toy Sale - Liquidating Private Collection - May 18-20
Dates: Thursday, May 18, 2017 - Saturday, May 20, 2017
Address: 39074 Webb Ct, Westland, MI
Giant Toy Sale Inside Warehouse -- 100s of Star Wars toys - Marvel, DC
100s of Star Wars toys - Marvel, DC, Batman, & More!
39074 Webb Court - Westland, MI 48185 Star Wars -- 100s & 100s of action figures 1980s to 2008 Star Wars vehicles -- 1980s to 2006 Star Wars 12 inch figures -- 1990s to 2004 Star Wars Micro Machines -- 1990s Marvel Legends (many) Marvel Universe (many) Spider-Man (many) Avengers X-Men -- (many) Iron-Man (many) Fantastic Four (many) Spawn -- 100+ figures Superman Batman (many) Justice League/Total Justice Vintage GI Joe Vintage Ninja Turtles Star Trek - Aliens - Terminator - Robotech® Other Superhero Toys, Posters & Collectibles Most toys are very good to mint in package -- hundreds and hundreds of action figures - dozens of vehicles - some vintage 1980s and 1990s Star Wars, G.I. Joe figures and vehicles, Ninja Turtles and Thunder Cats, Marvel Superheroes and others. All priced to sell.All sales final. Cash preferred. Credit Cards accepted.39074 Webb Court, Westland, MI 48185; near I-275 and Ford Road; off of Warren, between Hix and Lotz. 10 AM to 7:00 PM.
by the way the above garage sale reeks of desperation me thinks, also me thinks Kevin does not want to scare his fans by mentioning it to them.
Also I show a Zsi LLC. at their address too.
Hey Rick...where did you find the garage sale info?
Why Rick was looking for Michigan garage sales, I have no idea. But it does look like this was publicly available information.
yes it was publically available, furthermore no mention of the business in any of the ads(like he was trying to keep it secret from anyone looking the company up?), no mention of it by Kevin in one of his weekly updates and I wasn't even looking for it, it just popped up in my broad spectrum search.
Why Rick was looking for Michigan garage sales, I have no idea. But it does look like this was publicly available information.
yes it was publically available, furthermore no mention of the business in any of the ads(like he was trying to keep it secret from anyone looking the company up?), no mention of it by Kevin in one of his weekly updates and I wasn't even looking for it, it just popped up in my broad spectrum search.
Why Rick was looking for Michigan garage sales, I have no idea. But it does look like this was publicly available information.
yes it was publically available, furthermore no mention of the business in any of the ads(like he was trying to keep it secret from anyone looking the company up?), no mention of it by Kevin in one of his weekly updates and I wasn't even looking for it, it just popped up in my broad spectrum search.
I remember Kevin posting the yard sale thing but don't remember what update.
Every week we get a notice of sale of his personal items; nothing like mixing your personal business with your professional business (hard to call it that)
I was actually wondering what stuff he was selling, looking at Kevin's eBay store I found a Marvel Print he had for sale. So just like anything thing I checked on what it
originally sold for, last up to date sale versus the selling price. The "Mighty Marvel Heroes & Villains print" originally sold for $89.99; a quick search shows a copy
sold in 2015 for $125; What does Kevin have on his copy?? $460!! three times the amount. This is a stunt I would pull if I was NOT trying to sale something I wanted
to keep.. Put a price on it so high, no one would ever consider it.
The other thing I noticed is he still has a ton of Kevin Long's artwork for sale and even with the RTT Kickstarter's artwork was Kevin Long's, signed by Kevin Siembieda.
If that is not spitting in Mr. Long's face.. I don't know what is..
This clearly shows we will never get Robotech Tactics, as Morgan Vening pointed out. We have not seen any kind of 3D renderings of any wave 2 models, Not even the Monster
that I think about every backer purchased. If they went into production today in China, It would be very hard to make it to backers by Christmas with each step taking about a month.
And you know if Kevin as doing anything, he would be screaming it from the rooftops saying how great he is getting it done.
n815e wrote: Also, pretty sure I've seen Rick admit that he got nothing for his efforts at a Legal Tsunami (tm).
Offhand, he's been very cagey about it in the past.
I mean, let's not talk about him like he isn't here... Rick, would you kindly clarify, precisely, in plain language without flowery allusions or subtext necessary, what refund you did or did not get, and if you cannot specify that due to some measure of NDA or other agreement, a clarification on that instead?
The exact timeline is fuzzy, but there was an extended period of time leading to the "Legal Tsunami", followed by a few weeks (a month perhaps?) of uncharacteristic silence, a return with a strangely subdued Rick in place, a period of bemoaning how the community failed to rise up together, and now our usual firebrand.
Apologies if this isn't perfectly accurate, it's off the top of my head, and keeping track of Palladium's bullgak is enough of a hobby without needing to be able to cite 30 posts to back every last bit up there.
But I think it's at least close in the broad strokes.
That said, I'm open to clarification from the source himself.
n815e wrote: Also, pretty sure I've seen Rick admit that he got nothing for his efforts at a Legal Tsunami (tm).
Offhand, he's been very cagey about it in the past.
I mean, let's not talk about him like he isn't here... Rick, would you kindly clarify, precisely, in plain language without flowery allusions or subtext necessary, what refund you did or did not get, and if you cannot specify that due to some measure of NDA or other agreement, a clarification on that instead?
The exact timeline is fuzzy, but there was an extended period of time leading to the "Legal Tsunami", followed by a few weeks (a month perhaps?) of uncharacteristic silence, a return with a strangely subdued Rick in place, a period of bemoaning how the community failed to rise up together, and now our usual firebrand.
Apologies if this isn't perfectly accurate, it's off the top of my head, and keeping track of Palladium's bullgak is enough of a hobby without needing to be able to cite 30 posts to back every last bit up there.
But I think it's at least close in the broad strokes.
That said, I'm open to clarification from the source himself.
Nothing to say. Now excuse me while I stoke some embers
n815e wrote: Also, pretty sure I've seen Rick admit that he got nothing for his efforts at a Legal Tsunami (tm).
Offhand, he's been very cagey about it in the past.
I mean, let's not talk about him like he isn't here... Rick, would you kindly clarify, precisely, in plain language without flowery allusions or subtext necessary, what refund you did or did not get, and if you cannot specify that due to some measure of NDA or other agreement, a clarification on that instead?
The exact timeline is fuzzy, but there was an extended period of time leading to the "Legal Tsunami", followed by a few weeks (a month perhaps?) of uncharacteristic silence, a return with a strangely subdued Rick in place, a period of bemoaning how the community failed to rise up together, and now our usual firebrand.
Apologies if this isn't perfectly accurate, it's off the top of my head, and keeping track of Palladium's bullgak is enough of a hobby without needing to be able to cite 30 posts to back every last bit up there.
But I think it's at least close in the broad strokes.
That said, I'm open to clarification from the source himself.
I think your summary is the best we'll be getting.
I'm guessing PB's lawyers trumped Rick's "Legal Tsunami's-R-Us Lawyers" and he's got a nice gag order applied to himself.
n815e wrote: Also, pretty sure I've seen Rick admit that he got nothing for his efforts at a Legal Tsunami (tm).
Offhand, he's been very cagey about it in the past.
I mean, let's not talk about him like he isn't here... Rick, would you kindly clarify, precisely, in plain language without flowery allusions or subtext necessary, what refund you did or did not get, and if you cannot specify that due to some measure of NDA or other agreement, a clarification on that instead?
The exact timeline is fuzzy, but there was an extended period of time leading to the "Legal Tsunami", followed by a few weeks (a month perhaps?) of uncharacteristic silence, a return with a strangely subdued Rick in place, a period of bemoaning how the community failed to rise up together, and now our usual firebrand.
Apologies if this isn't perfectly accurate, it's off the top of my head, and keeping track of Palladium's bullgak is enough of a hobby without needing to be able to cite 30 posts to back every last bit up there.
But I think it's at least close in the broad strokes.
That said, I'm open to clarification from the source himself.
I think your summary is the best we'll be getting.
I'm guessing PB's lawyers trumped Rick's "Legal Tsunami's-R-Us Lawyers" and he's got a nice gag order applied to himself.
Your refusal to clearly answer simple questions speaks volumes.
But at this point I'm half convinced you just get off on the attention by being willfully obtuse on the matter, so unless you have something substantial to say, I'm going to drop the matter.
Always alluding to things but never actually saying anything directly...
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Forar wrote: Your refusal to clearly answer simple questions speaks volumes.
But at this point I'm half convinced you just get off on the attention by being willfully obtuse on the matter, so unless you have something substantial to say, I'm going to drop the matter.
Always alluding to things but never actually saying anything directly...
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Please do, Me I avoid it all together since nothing to say or be said.
Unsubstantiated speculation, but I always suspected the silence has been that he couldn't admit his "legal tsunami" failed, and rather than admit so, he hid behing "non-disclosure".
Because remember, it wasn't that he was going to get his money back. It was that it was going to bankrupt Palladium.
To me it's always come across that he's too afraid to admit he wasn't able to get his pound of flesh, so he's just been cagey about it, to soothe his bruised ego. That, as Forar and Alpha have pointed back, he's back to being the donkeycave he was before the claim, indicates there's no actual NDA in place.
I can understand having gotten your money back, and still following along. I did, in essence. But I can't understand still having the vitriol that he does. For me, it's ALL about the comedy (though there's empathy for people still caught in this). But there's no hate. No spite. And I just can't imagine someone getting their money back being so hateful.
Bah, Rick has recieved no refund - he's just continuing to be a thorn in PB's side.
If this so-called liquidation sale is true, hopefully it means PB is on the verge of going out business for real. It's the only way we're going to learn the state of this schroedinger's KS - though we can all pretty much guess its actual state.
Morgan Vening wrote: Unsubstantiated speculation, but I always suspected the silence has been that he couldn't admit his "legal tsunami" failed, and rather than admit so, he hid behing "non-disclosure".
Because remember, it wasn't that he was going to get his money back. It was that it was going to bankrupt Palladium.
To me it's always come across that he's too afraid to admit he wasn't able to get his pound of flesh, so he's just been cagey about it, to soothe his bruised ego. That, as Forar and Alpha have pointed back, he's back to being the donkeycave he was before the claim, indicates there's no actual NDA in place.
I can understand having gotten your money back, and still following along. I did, in essence. But I can't understand still having the vitriol that he does. For me, it's ALL about the comedy (though there's empathy for people still caught in this). But there's no hate. No spite. And I just can't imagine someone getting their money back being so hateful.
Morgan Vening wrote: Unsubstantiated speculation, but I always suspected the silence has been that he couldn't admit his "legal tsunami" failed, and rather than admit so, he hid behing "non-disclosure".
Because remember, it wasn't that he was going to get his money back. It was that it was going to bankrupt Palladium.
To me it's always come across that he's too afraid to admit he wasn't able to get his pound of flesh, so he's just been cagey about it, to soothe his bruised ego. That, as Forar and Alpha have pointed back, he's back to being the donkeycave he was before the claim, indicates there's no actual NDA in place.
I can understand having gotten your money back, and still following along. I did, in essence. But I can't understand still having the vitriol that he does. For me, it's ALL about the comedy (though there's empathy for people still caught in this). But there's no hate. No spite. And I just can't imagine someone getting their money back being so hateful.
So, I suspect the refund just never happened.
To each his own, never said one thing one way or the other, so believe what you want, it bothers me not
Forar wrote: "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
My all time favorite philosopher, I knew I liked you for a reason!
At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid.
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Asterios wrote: To each his own, never said one thing one way or the other, so believe what you want, it bothers me not
Yeah, that really is intentionally an attention seeking behavior.
Or at the very least acting "superior" with no merit to show for it.
Yep: irritating.
I think I liked it more when you contribute in general not what appears to be "fake" inside knowledge.
I believe that to be truth, please feel free to care enough to make clear so we in turn could actually care about what you have to say.
Smoke and mirrors is unbecoming.
Ah welll, banned on the PB Facebook page and getting a slap on the wrist on the PB forums - apparently you can critisiise but not name and shame? - I will have to watch my P's and Q's.
A gaming friend was expressing his continued disgust at Prodos and their AVP KS, but I wondered if PB might just decide, like be like Prodos, who accidentely (convenient as it was) shut down their AVP KS page and kept it closed. Might be manna from heaven for Kev and co as they will see/read no critisism and can carry on believing they are the premier rpg company in the world - or is that megaverse
I'm guessing either because it acts as a self contained place for people to vent without sullying their forums or Facebook anymore than they already do, or because it'd be taken by some as an admission that the jig is up.
Their whole attitude these last few years has been very "cover your ass", seeming to make token updates and token baby steps of progress, but nothing substantial. Doing something drastic like shutting the page down might seen as solving one problem and creating two more. Right now it's a mix of the disaffected.
Killing it outright might push some of those people to pursue refunds more seriously.
Also it acts as a record of that token progress, for their defenders and themselves alike. "Look, they posted around 200 updates!" (conveniently ignoring that around 100 of them were posted during the campaign back in 2013)
Is PB in such dire financial woes that they have resorted to this to generate some operating funds? It would seem to coincide with Carmen's ks failure and the pressure Kevin was putting on Carmen to launch. Without that ks funding, Kevin needs alternative sources of income?
Is Kevin looking to retire? If what we've been told is true and Kevin invested in toys, hoping that a collectors market would increase their value and provide him a retirement fund, then perhaps this is his attempt to leave the biz.
Or do they realize that the damage they've done to their brand with this ks means they need to resolve it soon? Perhaps they are looking for a cash injection to close things out so that they can be rid of us and continue with business as usual.
Fake edit: "Forever! Projects are not closed or taken down, they remain on site for reference and transparency. For the same reasons, projects cannot be deleted, even if they were canceled or unsuccessful. Please note that deleting your Kickstarter account will not delete your project."
Seems Kickstarter thought of this one. I guess if HG really wanted to be best buddies they could make a claim against it as happened (or allegedly happened, I wasn't following that closely) to the AvP campaign, but that brings us back to my point about possibly creating more problems than they solve with such an action.
They've been feigning (tepid, minimal) progress for years. Killing the page or allowing it to be killed off puts that lie to the test.
I don't anything about a liquidation sale. Those Princess Leia Figures were $70-$90 two months ago. And now I see one for $300. I guess with Carrie's death, Kevin can't help to miss an opportunity... Unless that we are talkin' about RRT.
n815e wrote: Is Kevin looking to retire? If what we've been told is true and Kevin invested in toys, hoping that a collectors market would increase their value and provide him a retirement fund, then perhaps this is his attempt to leave the biz.
Yeah, right, investing in toys as a 'retirement plan', sure, that's the real reason people buy toys.
Just invest in real estate, geez, it's not that hard if you've got money to do actual investing. The toy market is probably better for short term investing (buy limited stock to flip quickly to people who couldn't get it - i.e. scalping) than long term. In the long term, you're selling to people who are willing to wait until the price is right.
And... if anything Kevin noted in the update after being sick, is true. That Carmen had closed the RBG Kickstarter, without permission. Do you think for a second that Carmen will be running the RBG relaunch? C'mon man! He is out, for sure. I guarantee it. Carmen might be part of the launch if it was a true licensee-licencor relationship, but it's just not the case.
Rick's claims and threats of legal action are to be taken as seriously as Palladium's claims of hard work and amazing progress. Either show us something tangible or drop the act and stop pretending.
Albertorius wrote: "Without permission"? And they still hide under the fig leaf of "it's totally another company"?
Well, that's more WtD speculating than an actual statement from PB, at least as far as I could see.
I mean, it's clear that Kevin wasn't prepared, or he wouldn't have called in sick as the excuse. And that's speculation too, but my reasoning (like WtD's) is sound. In that Kevin is constantly sick, but he works through it, because he's devoted to his craft, and he never passes up the opportunity to martyr himself to his fans. And that last PBWU makes no mention of his supposed "illness". Something he would normally wax lyrical on, talking about how he's overcome something that'd have sidelined a lesser man for weeks, if not months.
So, like WtD I think that Carmen cancelling on short notice, and I think Kevin was highly irked by such a thing, there wasn't any specific quote that said so. Though I do think Kevin was looped in (else I'd have expected an even worse UTB than what was given), it was probably on short notice, resulting in the situation I speculated on in the second para.
I'm thinking Carmen's too tied to this to let it go, but the treatment that Kevin's given him, both before the campaign, and the wrapup in the last PBWU would have me questioning working for him, even if they were as separate as they're asking us to believe. Kevin's statements are just terrible at conveying Carmen as a good person to invest ~$100 in, and this is supposed to be his biggest advocate. Better to not say anything, than to say what he has. I don't know Carmen personally, but he deserves a better friend/business partner than Kevin.
Just an addendum PBWU review, these three lines from last week's PBWU's wrapup caught my eye (I was checking to confirm he didn't mention his illness).
"From heroes and monsters to entire worlds, game designers, writers and artists turn the ethereal into something tangible."
- Tangible? Not so much for W2, or pretty much anything from PB so far this year.
"With any luck, over the next three or four years you will see at least a few of our intellectual properties appear in film, television, comic books and who knows what?"
- When it happens, brag. Until then, seriously, no one believes it. It's arguably more repetitive than book scheduling. At least books occasionally get published. But go on, keep fething that chicken. Like Wave 2, I'm sure this year, magic will happen.
"We have a five year plan that should delight, and maybe even amaze."
- How about a one year plan that you actually follow through on? But that seems to be Kevin's mentality. Always thinking way into the future, instead of accomplishing in the present. Just want to point out that in 5 years, Kevin will be well past retirement age. And Wave 2 will likely still be on the schedule.
It shouldn't, but it still does surprise me just how conceited Kevin is, with absolutely no evidence to suggest any real merit in that thinking. It really must be difficult for Wayne to kiss Kevin's ass, with Kevin's head so firmly stuck there.
This has some very good points about Rifts Game; But until Palladium games does "something" with Robotech Tactics there will be some type of push back.
When I say they need to do something.. that means, not the weekly "we are working on it" Give us an actual update.. I would be happy with we are flat broke
and working now on how to report where the money went. Problem is he spent money on rent, other Palladium books and vintage star wars toys it seems.
Just give us a update with something believable, we want the truth...
I think I figured out how to handle all of this...
I am going violate Uncle Kevin's desires by publishing an http://www.openlegendrpg.com/ conversion to Rifts and force him to sue me in my home state so I can counter sue him for failing to deliver or account for RRT. Any outcome will at least get more of the good publicity for Palladium.
This seems like a terrible idea, especially because posting about it will show it's premeditated.
On the other hand I'm one of those backers who's reaction to being screwed over is to go into berserker mode (Khorne give me strength) so anything that brings them a step closer to shutting their doors is a-okay by me
I got the PBWU earlier, and I just need to check if I'm not hallucinating -- there's nothing in the update about RRT that isn't the usual copy and paste? They gave up even making effort on that?
I'm going to guess that that spectacular face-planting that was the gRifts KS has shown Kevin that the Kickstarter Well Of Free Money is no longer available for Siembieda-related ventures.
So, feth it, why bother even faking it at this point?
Merijeek wrote: I'm going to guess that that spectacular face-planting that was the gRifts KS has shown Kevin that the Kickstarter Well Of Free Money is no longer available for Siembieda-related ventures.
So, feth it, why bother even faking it at this point?
So we can show for months at a time on the KS page no effort is made at all to "update"?
I am still thinking a burning bag of feces on their doorstep may be the only economical closure I will get.
ScarletRose wrote: This seems like a terrible idea, especially because posting about it will show it's premeditated.
Parody is protected free speech. You could write a parody of Rifts, Kevin will still try to C&D you, inform him of it's parody content, watch him proceed to file.
I vote for changing racist emperor Prosek to lazy, greedy, thieving emperor Kevin.
As mentioned by others, the PBWU is up. My new job has stopped me being Johnny-On-The-Spot with that, and if Kevin isn't going to put in effort, I ain't gonna.
In the last couple of hours, an RRT backer (Nanobadger) on the RRT comments posted the response he recently got from PB regarding refunds.
Thank you for the inquire regarding Robotech RPG Tactics. We sincerely apologize for the Wave Two
delays that we are experiencing as we are working
to produce the best quality and most accurate
representations of the RRT miniatures.
Its going painfully slow as this process is extensive.
As mentioned before we are doing a great deal
with trying to make improvements and headway on
those improvements for Wave Two, via reduced part
counts for easier assembly, reduced seams and
sprue layouts. This is now in conjunction with
comparing and getting quotes utilizing new
manufacturing technologies and production
processes to help fulfill what we are seeking,
while preserving the high detail and quality.
With Wave Two having so many unique unit designs
to be broken down and quoted, things have taken
quit a bit of time and evaluation. We are hoping
the congested pipeline for quotes will move much faster now.
Contrast the last line with a paragraph from Update 198, three months ago. Note the similarity?
"With Wave Two rewards having so many unique unit designs to be broken down and quoted, and with Essen Spiel (one of the largest gaming/miniatures conventions in Europe that is visited by many miniature manufacturers - just transpired in October) and the Chinese New Year over, we are hoping the congested pipeline for quotes will move much faster now."
So, now, apparently, the congested pipeline runs from October through May. Probably also busy in the leadup to GenCon. So I'm assuming the only time it's not congested, is a brief window between the end of GenCon, and EssenSpiel? Hope they don't get con crud again, or the window for this year could be missed.
Hey, Kevin. If the manufacturers are taking more than 3+ months to get a quote back to you, it's got nothing to do with a congested pipeline. It's that they're just not into you. Other parts of the process like completion of contract or the actual process work might take a long time, but if you can't get an actionable quote back within a week or two, a month at the latest, then they're not interested in your business, They're blowing you off.
"With Wave Two rewards having so many unique unit designs to be broken down and quoted, and with Essen Spiel (one of the largest gaming/miniatures conventions in Europe that is visited by many miniature manufacturers - just transpired in October)
problem with that part it is a lie, even if manufacturers visit the show they do not stop production back home, well maybe if you are a small rinky dinky operation like Palladium you do, where one man missing and everything shuts down, but not for a plastic molder, in fact the guy showing up for the show probably does not even work in the factory anymore if they even send somebody to the show.
Kevin will keep up the lie about wave 2 until he's dead or Palladium goes out of business because he knows that if he doesn't it will result in the largest lawsuit KS is ever likely to be associated with. This has been going on for so long and the mismanagement is so apparent that there will be multiple people with the means and anger to sue Palladium for no reason other than the public excoriation of Kevin.
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TalonZahn wrote: Seems a might expensive to hire a lawyer for ( or to prevent ) obtaining $140.
I could see Kevin getting a lawyer to make sure everything was sealed up and no leaks down the road to stop an actual tsunami of refund seekers.
Being spiteful, sneaky, and vengeful is free however.
Where I live (Arizona) it would be exceedingly easy to receive a small claims judgement against Palladium.
1. Arizona small claims court doesn't allow the use of lawyers unless agreed to by both parties (and you can't just "hire" a lawyer as janitor for a day to send him as your representative)
2. Palladium not sending a representative results in an automatic judgement in your favor (what are the odds Kevin shows up to testify under oath or sends some lackey who isn't willing to perjure himself)
3. Arizona small claims court does not allow for appeals of judgments except on the basis of procedural errors (i.e. once you receive a judgement Kevin can't appeal it to another court in another state where he could use lawyers making it cost prohibitive to pursue)
I don't know if there are many other states with similarly plaintiff friendly small claims courts but even a few dozen judgments could cause major issues for Palladium if they don't pay and they result in liens.
If you're referring to me, I'm not a RRT backer so I have no standing to sue.
As for getting blood from a stone, that's why they have liens. If Palladium is unwilling or unable to pay a court judgement the court will attach a lien to their property. It is VERY difficult for a business to conduct itself with liens on it.
n815e wrote: I'm not sure Kevin could afford to hire a lawyer, any more.
Well, according to one satire account on the gRifts campaign, they were pushing that they shared an lawyer with PB. And while it was obviously a joke, it was the kind of Barry Zuckerhorn type lawyer you'ld kind of expect Kevin to have on retainer.
Speaking of gRifts, Carmen posted an Update finally on the Rogue Heroes Facebook. The first time in three weeks, and the first post since the campaign ended more than two weeks ago. Mostly what you'ld expect, except this section.
" I plan on taking all the time necessary to make the best Rifts Board Game possible. This may take some time, but I believe it will be worth the effort. I will return to Kickstarter only after I have everything ready to go."
I'm glad he's going to take everything on board, and make the relaunch better. I distinctly remember that when asked why the rush, that there were unavoidable time constraints. Which sounds very Palladiesque. "We had to do things this way" becoming "Oh, no we didn't, it was just us doing what we do". And while I'm hoping he manages a relaunch with proper funding goals, proper stretches, and a much slicker campaign, he's again being screwed by relation to PB, because that word has been tainted by PB wankery. Kevin's been talking up the relaunch of RRT since at least the end of 2015.
But for gRifts fans, I definitely expect to see movement on that campaign before PB show any movement on RRT.
In that regard, for those keeping score, if you discount the last two Updates due to circumstances around the incident, the last major Update was 147 days after the prior one. And that was the longest period without an Update in the history of the campaign.
From that date to now, has been 114 days. Making it the second longest period without an Update. July 2nd will make it the longest period. If you want to give PB the benefit of the doubt on the incident ones, it's 94 days (third highest), and July 22nd becomes the deadline by which it becomes the longest period without an Update.
Remember, that Feb 4th Update talked about Wave 2 happening this year. So, that's something the next Update will need to walk back.
In other PB Fantasy Kickstarter League news, anyone who had the over on "big breakdown of where each and every component is in its development" happening in the first 700 days, you're almost there. No update by next weekend will get you those fantasy points (currently +689). But then again, any information from Kevin or Wayne that isn't "can't do it this year, but next year for sure" prior to GenCon, will savage most backer's lineups. I mean, that'd be an upset for the ages.
I'm glad he's going to take everything on board, and make the relaunch better. I distinctly remember that when asked why the rush, that there were unavoidable time constraints. Which sounds very Palladiesque. "We had to do things this way" becoming "Oh, no we didn't, it was just us doing what we do". And while I'm hoping he manages a relaunch with proper funding goals, proper stretches, and a much slicker campaign, he's again being screwed by relation to PB, because that word has been tainted by PB wankery. Kevin's been talking up the relaunch of RRT since at least the end of 2015.
I'm just sort of glad he's willing to stick to it, and I'm more than happy to let him take cracks at the problems. I prefer to let his own work stand or fall on its own merit. Yes, the potential problems of PB involvement should be made clear to any backers for full disclosure, but that's the extent I wish RRT on him.
Where I live (Arizona) it would be exceedingly easy to receive a small claims judgement against Palladium.
1. Arizona small claims court doesn't allow the use of lawyers unless agreed to by both parties (and you can't just "hire" a lawyer as janitor for a day to send him as your representative)
2. Palladium not sending a representative results in an automatic judgement in your favor (what are the odds Kevin shows up to testify under oath or sends some lackey who isn't willing to perjure himself)
3. Arizona small claims court does not allow for appeals of judgments except on the basis of procedural errors (i.e. once you receive a judgement Kevin can't appeal it to another court in another state where he could use lawyers making it cost prohibitive to pursue)
I don't know if there are many other states with similarly plaintiff friendly small claims courts but even a few dozen judgments could cause major issues for Palladium if they don't pay and they result in liens.
You forgot to mention the low cost of filing said small claims, or in certain circumstances you can even get the fee waived.
In other PB Fantasy Kickstarter League news, anyone who had the over on "big breakdown of where each and every component is in its development" happening in the first 700 days, you're almost there. No update by next weekend will get you those fantasy points (currently +689). But then again, any information from Kevin or Wayne that isn't "can't do it this year, but next year for sure" prior to GenCon, will savage most backer's lineups. I mean, that'd be an upset for the ages.
Where I live (Arizona) it would be exceedingly easy to receive a small claims judgement against Palladium.
1. Arizona small claims court doesn't allow the use of lawyers unless agreed to by both parties (and you can't just "hire" a lawyer as janitor for a day to send him as your representative)
2. Palladium not sending a representative results in an automatic judgement in your favor (what are the odds Kevin shows up to testify under oath or sends some lackey who isn't willing to perjure himself)
3. Arizona small claims court does not allow for appeals of judgments except on the basis of procedural errors (i.e. once you receive a judgement Kevin can't appeal it to another court in another state where he could use lawyers making it cost prohibitive to pursue)
I don't know if there are many other states with similarly plaintiff friendly small claims courts but even a few dozen judgments could cause major issues for Palladium if they don't pay and they result in liens.
You forgot to mention the low cost of filing said small claims, or in certain circumstances you can even get the fee waived.
I thought we all decided that you'd be better off just leaving all the legal talk behind?
Where I live (Arizona) it would be exceedingly easy to receive a small claims judgement against Palladium.
1. Arizona small claims court doesn't allow the use of lawyers unless agreed to by both parties (and you can't just "hire" a lawyer as janitor for a day to send him as your representative)
2. Palladium not sending a representative results in an automatic judgement in your favor (what are the odds Kevin shows up to testify under oath or sends some lackey who isn't willing to perjure himself)
3. Arizona small claims court does not allow for appeals of judgments except on the basis of procedural errors (i.e. once you receive a judgement Kevin can't appeal it to another court in another state where he could use lawyers making it cost prohibitive to pursue)
I don't know if there are many other states with similarly plaintiff friendly small claims courts but even a few dozen judgments could cause major issues for Palladium if they don't pay and they result in liens.
You forgot to mention the low cost of filing said small claims, or in certain circumstances you can even get the fee waived.
I thought we all decided that you'd be better off just leaving all the legal talk behind?
n815e wrote: What razor's edge? You promised that if you got your refund, you'd stop with your obsessive PB postings.
You're still posting and obsessing and stalking them. You are still cheering others on to file lawsuits. You still want to see them destroyed.
Correction I said if I got a full refund i'd probably quit pestering them (to the best of my abilities), sadly that is not the case, and just because the option to destroy them is not open to me does not mean I cannot cheer others on to destroy them (like say with a class action suit?)
Alpharius wrote: Honestly "Rick", at this point, the only thing that is a bigger waste of time are the PBWU's and PB's blather about 'still getting quotes', etc.
Not exactly an illustrious list to find yourself on.
Excited and excessive posts about how important you are, but containing nothing of merit or substance. Promises of big things that never happen, hidden behind vagueness and obfuscation, and the dismissal of anyone who questions your word.
To paraphrase Nietzsche "And if thou gaze long into the gRift, the gRift will also gaze into thee."
Excited and excessive posts about how important you are, but containing nothing of merit or substance. Promises of big things that never happen, hidden behind vagueness and obfuscation, and the dismissal of anyone who questions your word.
To paraphrase Nietzsche "And if thou gaze long into the gRift, the gRift will also gaze into thee."
Rick/Asterios has become Kevin.
Meh, You guys are the ones who gave me importance, but sadly the tsunami turned into nothing but a small ripple, oh well get over it, I did and life moves on, but alas, you guys continue to give me more importance then what I really am.
Excited and excessive posts about how important you are, but containing nothing of merit or substance. Promises of big things that never happen, hidden behind vagueness and obfuscation, and the dismissal of anyone who questions your word.
To paraphrase Nietzsche "And if thou gaze long into the gRift, the gRift will also gaze into thee."
Rick/Asterios has become Kevin.
Quoted and then Exalted For...Truth™
Moving on - there's NO WAY they can kick this can past ANOTHER Gencon, is there?
Excited and excessive posts about how important you are, but containing nothing of merit or substance. Promises of big things that never happen, hidden behind vagueness and obfuscation, and the dismissal of anyone who questions your word.
To paraphrase Nietzsche "And if thou gaze long into the gRift, the gRift will also gaze into thee."
Rick/Asterios has become Kevin.
Quoted and then Exalted For...Truth™
Moving on - there's NO WAY they can kick this can past ANOTHER Gencon, is there?
Quick question from someone who doesn't have time to read through 300 pages.
I've stopped in to check on the debacle now and then but somehow I missed the fact that nearly one and a half million dollars was raised on this project.
Does any one have a reasonably idea of where 1.4 million dollars went? Was it just not enough to cover the production costs or is there some indication it was spend on wine and loose living?
Gotta say that with that much money at hand, I'm surprised legal action hasn't been taken, but that's just my far-outsiders's view.
Excited and excessive posts about how important you are, but containing nothing of merit or substance. Promises of big things that never happen, hidden behind vagueness and obfuscation, and the dismissal of anyone who questions your word.
To paraphrase Nietzsche "And if thou gaze long into the gRift, the gRift will also gaze into thee."
Rick/Asterios has become Kevin.
Don't forget blaming everyone else when their grandiose schemes fail when forced to intersect with actual reality.
Eilif wrote: Quick question from someone who doesn't have time to read through 300 pages.
I've stopped in to check on the debacle now and then but somehow I missed the fact that nearly one and a half million dollars was raised on this project.
Does any one have a reasonably idea of where 1.4 million dollars went? Was it just not enough to cover the production costs or is there some indication it was spend on wine and loose living?
Gotta say that with that much money at hand, I'm surprised legal action hasn't been taken, but that's just my far-outsiders's view.
Good luck everyone.
The phrase "robbing Peter to pay Paul" comes to mind.
Which is probably why the Rifts board game KS failing made Kevin call in sick for the PBWU a couple of weeks ago.
Which is probably why the Rifts board game KS failing made Kevin call in sick for the PBWU a couple of weeks ago.
Not so sure on that. I don't think that there was any chance, even if gRifts exceeded all expectation ($2M+), And even if gRifts was a true shell corporation, I think backers would remain hosed. Because firstly, they'd keep up the ruse.
And secondly, I think even in Kevin's fairytale universe, he realizes RRT is a sunk cost. The game is dead. The amount of money required to finish, freight and ship to backers, greatly exceeds any profitability they can expect from retail sales. And given the staff's complete lack of enthusiasm, there isn't even a personal passion element.
So, I think even if gRifts comes back stronger than ever, any money they do get from that will be put elsewhere. RRT is just a white elephant for them.
EDIT: I don't dispute the possibility that RRT funds were used to prop up PB or finish other projects (though I'm not saying they did, either). Just that if that WAS the case, I don't think it would be reciprocated to RRT. RRT is a dead end for PB.
Which is probably why the Rifts board game KS failing made Kevin call in sick for the PBWU a couple of weeks ago.
Not so sure on that. I don't think that there was any chance, even if gRifts exceeded all expectation ($2M+), And even if gRifts was a true shell corporation, I think backers would remain hosed. Because firstly, they'd keep up the ruse.
And secondly, I think even in Kevin's fairytale universe, he realizes RRT is a sunk cost. The game is dead. The amount of money required to finish, freight and ship to backers, greatly exceeds any profitability they can expect from retail sales. And given the staff's complete lack of enthusiasm, there isn't even a personal passion element.
So, I think even if gRifts comes back stronger than ever, any money they do get from that will be put elsewhere. RRT is just a white elephant for them.
And there in lies the Truth, as it stands gRifts not funding may have been a bigger hit to PB as a whole (let us not forget Kevin garage sale just recently), and as I have said PB will never do wave 2, it will cost them way much more money then they will ever make and it would be like burning money.
I also doubt gRifts money would have been used for RRT. At the end of the day, Rifts is PB's flesh and blood. Robotech is a foster child. Even in the years that PB held the RPG license, releases for Robotech stuff is much less than Rifts product.
No reason to expect PB to discharge their RRT responsibilities when they hadn't any track record of that post-Wave 1.
Asterios wrote: And there in lies the Truth, as it stands gRifts not funding may have been a bigger hit to PB as a whole (let us not forget Kevin garage sale just recently), and as I have said PB will never do wave 2, it will cost them way much more money then they will ever make and it would be like burning money.
I am pretty sure the moment $1.5 million was in hand everything was looking like lost money to them AFTER they saw how badly the box sets were not moving.
I mean, it is easy to look at things from their end: reprint old RPG's as stock runs out, publish a Rifter every once in a while when money gets tight, call Christmas any time of the year for the gift package, especially when Kev is feeling Grinchy, money easily accepted, beloved stock grudgingly given in exchange (sure you cannot accept Kev's signature signed on toilet paper? pretty please?)
Asterios wrote: And there in lies the Truth, as it stands gRifts not funding may have been a bigger hit to PB as a whole (let us not forget Kevin garage sale just recently), and as I have said PB will never do wave 2, it will cost them way much more money then they will ever make and it would be like burning money.
I am pretty sure the moment $1.5 million was in hand everything was looking like lost money to them AFTER they saw how badly the box sets were not moving.
I mean, it is easy to look at things from their end: reprint old RPG's as stock runs out, publish a Rifter every once in a while when money gets tight, call Christmas any time of the year for the gift package, especially when Kev is feeling Grinchy, money easily accepted, beloved stock grudgingly given in exchange (sure you cannot accept Kev's signature signed on toilet paper? pretty please?)
Of course, which is why it always makes me laugh when people keep thinking Wave 2 will come out, doubt Kevin will throw money away on that, unlike his highly prized collectibles.
Which is probably why the Rifts board game KS failing made Kevin call in sick for the PBWU a couple of weeks ago.
Not so sure on that. I don't think that there was any chance, even if gRifts exceeded all expectation ($2M+), And even if gRifts was a true shell corporation, I think backers would remain hosed. Because firstly, they'd keep up the ruse.
And secondly, I think even in Kevin's fairytale universe, he realizes RRT is a sunk cost. The game is dead. The amount of money required to finish, freight and ship to backers, greatly exceeds any profitability they can expect from retail sales. And given the staff's complete lack of enthusiasm, there isn't even a personal passion element.
So, I think even if gRifts comes back stronger than ever, any money they do get from that will be put elsewhere. RRT is just a white elephant for them.
EDIT: I don't dispute the possibility that RRT funds were used to prop up PB or finish other projects (though I'm not saying they did, either). Just that if that WAS the case, I don't think it would be reciprocated to RRT. RRT is a dead end for PB.
I never said or even implied that the Rifts board game funds would be used for RRT. Wave 2 will never see the light of day.
My comment about robbing Peter to pay Paul was in regards to the RRT funds and general mismanagement of the company. Kevin was assuredly relying on funds from the board game campaign to fund Palladium, not RRT.
My comment about robbing Peter to pay Paul was in regards to the RRT funds.
Yeah there was some serious question in timing in when RRT funded and PB got paid and they released the Northern Gun Books shortly there after which were already really late on delivery.
Asterios wrote: Meh, You guys are the ones who gave me importance, but sadly the tsunami turned into nothing but a small ripple, oh well get over it, I did and life moves on, but alas, you guys continue to give me more importance then what I really am.
???
Asterios Importance = legal tsunami
legal tsunami = small ripple
small ripple = Asterios is a drip.
Logical conclusive proof right there. Don't worry, I did not assign you any more importance than you deserved... didn't want to give you any performance anxiety.
The new Zombicide kickstarter started today.. at the current rate they will break a million before tonight.;
It just shows on the Rifts Game how much Robotech Tactics was pulling it down.. Plus presentation and value makes
a big kicker also..
What if Kevin did come out and say that there is no money left..?? Would it even help ? The game could have had so much
promise; I think the game could have really worked.. they just need to keep the ball rolling instead of dropping it like a bomb.
My personal feeling is he will keep saying "I'm working on it" even on his death bed...
The Zombicide kickstarter is quite good.
Reasonable stretch goals, ONE choice which is funny.
Even the goal is a reasonable amount of money.
Funny how PB makes it seem like rocket science.
Talizvar wrote: The Zombicide kickstarter is quite good.
Reasonable stretch goals, ONE choice which is funny.
Even the goal is a reasonable amount of money.
Funny how PB makes it seem like rocket science.
I like the part where the stretch goal minis come with the game and you don't have to buy them extra.
Talizvar wrote: The Zombicide kickstarter is quite good.
Reasonable stretch goals, ONE choice which is funny.
Even the goal is a reasonable amount of money.
Funny how PB makes it seem like rocket science.
Same setup as the CMON Rising Sun KS.
1 pledge level, and like... 4 add-ons? One was a bigger map, one was metal coin upgrades, an expansion box, and an art book.
All In cost a total of $225, base pledge was $100.
4.2m and a dump truck full of stuff.
I really like Zombicide Black Plague and I'm sure I will like Green Tide.
Genoside07 wrote: What if Kevin did come out and say that there is no money left..?? Would it even help ? The game could have had so much
promise; I think the game could have really worked.. they just need to keep the ball rolling instead of dropping it like a bomb.
My personal feeling is he will keep saying "I'm working on it" even on his death bed...
If Kevin said there was no money left, it would absolutely not help. It'd probably destroy the company. Because while there are a "handful" of backers screaming for blood, there are likely a significant number who while having given up on a timeline, still expect a return on their money. That the promises that Kevin still intends to fulfill (even if they don't believe he's working on it as much as he claims) are lies, and have been for a long time, will see some increased anger. And such an admission will trigger the Kickstarter failure clause, whereby they owe backers refunds. And that'd start a whole big snowball of hostility. So Kevin will keep it going until his departure from the company. All he needs to do is cut and paste and slightly modify the same para every week, and write a blathering vagueness three or four times a year, and he's able to slide on his obligations, and keep doing the stuff he wants to do.
Regarding the game having promise, it's been discussed before, and even in the most optimistic circumstances, it'd have never done better than high third tier, maybe low second tier wargaming. Battletech/Heavy Gear level, but not Warmahordes/Malifaux level. And that's at it's best. It's based on a 30 year old cartoon that's had no real revitalization, and while popular at the time, doesn't have the cultural cache that's made X-Wing so popular. One of the reasons I initially invested so heavily, was so that I could sell 5 BC's at cost locally to gin up support. Because I don't thing the game would have taken off locally at retail pricing. So getting BC prices would have been a way of infusing the gamespace with enough critical mass to get people playing, and then retail has a chance to cement. Investing in a game people are playing is different to being the first canary in the coal mine. It's the reason GW is so successful. Because you can always get a game.
But circumstances changed when SpartanGate happened, and I bailed on that whole concept immediately. May 14th, they showed the Spartan Prototypes, May 18th, they reclarified their position that "it had to be done this way", and the same day I asked for a refund. Rejected, of course.
And what is the "Kickstarter failure clause"? Because from what I've seen so far, it seems that would amount to an email from Kickstarter to PB saying, "Guys, you should totes return the money now. Well, you should, anyway."
Moreso, it would open up PB to actual action. Money was taken, goods are owed or money to be refunded. Sure, someone would either have to get an AG invovled or do a personal suite, but they would have an extremely strong standing if it's been admitted the KS has failed.
PB could possibly mitigate what it would legally owe backers, but they'd have to open up their books to show how the money was spent - and with what we've seen in other areas at PB, that'd probably show enough questionable intermixing of funds, lies over the past two years on what's actually been spent/worked on, they'd be forced to declare bankrupty. Further, if there's been intermixing/redirecting of funds as others have suspected, Kevin's own personal funds could be in jeapordy - if he doesn't end up in legal trouble for embezzlement.
Stormonu wrote: Moreso, it would open up PB to actual action. Money was taken, goods are owed or money to be refunded. Sure, someone would either have to get an AG invovled or do a personal suite, but they would have an extremely strong standing if it's been admitted the KS has failed.
PB could possibly mitigate what it would legally owe backers, but they'd have to open up their books to show how the money was spent - and with what we've seen in other areas at PB, that'd probably show enough questionable intermixing of funds, lies over the past two years on what's actually been spent/worked on, they'd be forced to declare bankrupty. Further, if there's been intermixing/redirecting of funds as others have suspected, Kevin's own personal funds could be in jeapordy - if he doesn't end up in legal trouble for embezzlement.
There is no way in hell Kevin allows the finances of PB to go to discovery. He will bankrupt the company fighting it first because it would end up bankrupt anyway.
Merijeek wrote: And what is the "Kickstarter failure clause"? Because from what I've seen so far, it seems that would amount to an email from Kickstarter to PB saying, "Guys, you should totes return the money now. Well, you should, anyway."
You're correct, in that it'd still require legal pressure to get PB to refund. But the difference is (and is why I advocated for in the past for Kickstarter to revoke, or at least threaten to do), PB are able to hide behind Kickstarter's clause as the primary reason for fending off refunds. And it'd be their first argument in any legal action. If that shield no longer exists, because of an admission of failure, it'd be a much simpler process.
EDIT : Here's a para from my initial request for a refund. "As such, we cannot offer you a refund at this time. If the time should ever come that Palladium Books cannot fulfill the terms of our Kickstarter project, we will of course offer refunds, as we would be required to do by Kickstarter.". So they admit in no uncertain terms what'd be required of them. As I said above, it'd still likely require legal action because PB are donkey caves, but it'd be a much easier task without Kickstarter saying "Well, they haven't breached T&C yet.".
Also, again, while there are quite a few vocal respondents, we get caught up in who's speaking out, and forget those who don't. There's 4000+ backers who's opinion simply isn't known. Sure, some few might be OK with losing their funds after all this time, and others might be willing to just let it go (or have done so already). But there's going to be a portion that always expected PB to fulfill their promise eventually. Admitting they're just going to skip out, won't go over well. PB might have a poor reputation, but openly admitting "We took $1.4M dollars, delivered on half what we promised, kept promising the rest, but nahhh, we're going to screw them" is a significantly different departure from "PB are always late".
EDIT2: My point is, nearly everyone being vocal knows PB are never going to fulfill. But there's a significant difference legally between being technically in the right, and straight up admitting you're in the wrong. The former will win most of the time. The latter won't.
The true crux of the matter is if they keep doing what they are doing, how many years can they go and not hit some legal limit wall?
10 years? 20 years?
I am tempted to spend a hundred dollars just to ask a lawyer this vexing question.
Good question - I'd have to think that EVEN KS would start to realize that they can't keep kicking this particular can down the road for too much longer without actual, real evidence of progress.
Although I don't think that this project had an enormous impact on gRifts, it was certainly tangible. By that, I don't mean the $1 posters, but anyone who reasonably looked at it and its connections with PB and came to the conclusion that the mishandling of RRT, combined with the the poor prep of gRifts, meant that the funding dollars were being withheld.
I'm also hoping that, with their new Robotech VP, HG is paying attention and decides enough is enough.
n815e wrote: I'm also hoping that, with their new Robotech VP, HG is paying attention and decides enough is enough.
That would be of interest of how HG could apply any measure of pressure on PB to show results.
Since Robotech is such a niche thing that is with the late 30yr to 40-yr olds it is hard to get too serious about.
We are too busy spending the big money on sailboats or Viagra at about this time and are not quite as concerned with that IP getting a leg-up.
The obvious is that they could cancel/not renew the license.
That would end it all right there. PB would be on the hook for refunds at that point.
HG may like getting that license fee, but it can't be all that much if Palladium can afford to pay it. In the meantime, there is no denying that this project has hurt the franchise.
jaymz wrote:Huge overproduction of retail stock is the main albatross of this debacle
So the idea is that PB dumped almost the whole amount into production of the first wave of retail and when that didn't take off they were sunk without the capital to make future waves?
EmraldArcher wrote:
The phrase "robbing Peter to pay Paul" comes to mind.
Which is probably why the Rifts board game KS failing made Kevin call in sick for the PBWU a couple of weeks ago.
I wasn't able to find this KS on the site. The only simlar project I see is the Rifts Savage World which seems to have done really well.
jaymz wrote:Huge overproduction of retail stock is the main albatross of this debacle
So the idea is that PB dumped almost the whole amount into production of the first wave of retail and when that didn't take off they were sunk without the capital to make future waves?
That's definitely one of the more popular theories - I believe it is the proverbial 'leader in the clubhouse'.
Occam's razor I think applies where seeing all that retail stock seems the simplest answer. PB has always relied on the steady trickle of stock being bought to keep the lights on.
I agree that the overproduction is one major reason, but I also think the hidden (or at least not originally factored in) cost of postage also hit them very hard
In one of the few updates kevin admitted Wave 1 cost £150k plus in postal charges, a big chunk if they had not costed it Then their decision to go to two waves comes back with a vengeance - also highlighting their lack of planning - as cosys are likely have doubled over the last three (and ongoing years) so postage alone could swallow nearly half their KS funds.
Of course any shortfall would have to be met by Palladium and with absolute certainty, Kevin is not stumping up that soft of cash,he is quite happy to brass neck it out with meaningless prases about progress, hoping we all just go away anfd forget about him and his failing company
I recall, when accusations of spending the money on other things were floating around, NMI came to Kevin's defense and wrote that all the money was spent on RRT.
When asked to clarify, that all the money was spent and that it was spent on things other than fulfilling the kickstarter obligation, he disappeared.
So we have the kickstarter bringing in about 1.4 million.
Kickstarter's take is 5% (72k)
Credit card fees are between 3-5% (let's be generous and say 3% or 43k)
According to the history of the world according to Kevin, shipping took $150,000.
This leaves $1.177 million before taxes and does not include anything post-funding backerkit additions.
From one of the box photos, we saw that the main box shipped in boxes of 3 and something like 5940 or so of those boxes were ordered for about 17k yet counting up all of the pledge levels, we only get 6684 main boxes.
I seem to recall someone else calculating that each box costs PB about $40. At 17k, that's $680k there leaving just shy of $500k for the wave 1 expansion boxes, wave 2, and taxes.
Yup. Numbers aren't looking good even with my back of the napkin calculations.
There is also some up-front die costs that may not be included in the calculations and let us not forget that Ninja Division had some "heavy lifting" fees as well.
I think any guesswork math is pointless until some governing body can force them to crack open the books and get some investigative accounting happening.
The only quote by NMI I have memory of is when us RRT backers were going all squirrelly and he inserted "Sweet apple pie." right in there. Yep, playing with a full deck that one.
I still think Carmen needed the KS funds to cover the license renewal. And Kevin pressuring him to make sure he had the renewal money is what really drove him to the comments section and caused the suicide attempt.
jaymz wrote: If by full deck you mean with no cards.....
Surely as a True Fan(tm), he would have purchased one or more of the initial print run of 150 Rifts playing card decks featuring recycled art from various sourcebooks?
Or if you're referring to the RRT cards, he could print out a copy off DriveThru RPG.
Ok. That last line was a weak attempt at trying to stay on topic. I got nothin. . .
cannonfodr wrote: So we have the kickstarter bringing in about 1.4 million.
Kickstarter's take is 5% (72k)
Credit card fees are between 3-5% (let's be generous and say 3% or 43k)
According to the history of the world according to Kevin, shipping took $150,000.
This leaves $1.177 million before taxes and does not include anything post-funding backerkit additions.
From one of the box photos, we saw that the main box shipped in boxes of 3 and something like 5940 or so of those boxes were ordered for about 17k yet counting up all of the pledge levels, we only get 6684 main boxes.
I seem to recall someone else calculating that each box costs PB about $40. At 17k, that's $680k there leaving just shy of $500k for the wave 1 expansion boxes, wave 2, and taxes.
Yup. Numbers aren't looking good even with my back of the napkin calculations.
The big question is cost. Retail "value" is below. I'm guessing as a generous cost manufacture would be 1/4 retail cost.
MB $1,224,614.94
S/P $151,833.60
T/D $151,833.60
BP $170,265.60
APB $170,265.60
VW $170,265.60
GC $170,265.60
---------------------
Grand Total $2,209,344.54 (not counting the BattleCry extras)
1/4 value = $552,336.15
I'm guessing the BC extras being about $30K or so at 1/4 value. So with overseas shipping, that would have put them at about $700K spent - not including domestic shipping. Factor in Kickstarter fees, and it's getting pretty close to showing that all the money is long gone.
Oh look at that math! I am making fun a little bit but I do salute a strong attempt at logically tallying PB's retail stock run. I think we went down this road a long while back but is definitely worth revisiting.
This is precisely the type of "mistake" PB would do so it is a worthy thing to point out in case anyone here runs the risk of getting their hopes up. Wonder if I can add more Orkmoticons... How do I feel about PB?
cannonfodr wrote: So we have the kickstarter bringing in about 1.4 million.
Kickstarter's take is 5% (72k)
Credit card fees are between 3-5% (let's be generous and say 3% or 43k)
According to the history of the world according to Kevin, shipping took $150,000.
This leaves $1.177 million before taxes and does not include anything post-funding backerkit additions.
From one of the box photos, we saw that the main box shipped in boxes of 3 and something like 5940 or so of those boxes were ordered for about 17k yet counting up all of the pledge levels, we only get 6684 main boxes.
I seem to recall someone else calculating that each box costs PB about $40. At 17k, that's $680k there leaving just shy of $500k for the wave 1 expansion boxes, wave 2, and taxes.
Yup. Numbers aren't looking good even with my back of the napkin calculations.
As far as I understand how taxes and KS work, any taxes paid on the money can be almost entirely offset/recouped if you actually spend the money completing the project.
You did forget uncollected pledges though. It can vary widely but with a campaign like RRT that has a high pledge per backer amount it was probably around 10% so that's another 140K off the top.
I'd expect the uncollected pledges probably wash out with the backer kit add-ins/late pledges/gencon pre-orders. I figure it's accurate enough for a back of the napkin calculation for a ballpark estimate of funds spent/remaining.
Thinking about it some more, I remember seeing that PB had spent $40k upfront for initial design work by ND. I could see Kevin turning around and recouping that cost from the Kickstarter funds. I wonder if that was then used to complete the Northern Gun books? It would be consistent with their logic.
I'm also quite certain that any monies from sales of the product went into PB's general fund and have long since been used to pay for utilities/various reprints/owed salaries/etc.
cannonfodr wrote: I'd expect the uncollected pledges probably wash out with the backer kit add-ins/late pledges/gencon pre-orders. I figure it's accurate enough for a back of the napkin calculation for a ballpark estimate of funds spent/remaining.
Thinking about it some more, I remember seeing that PB had spent $40k upfront for initial design work by ND. I could see Kevin turning around and recouping that cost from the Kickstarter funds. I wonder if that was then used to complete the Northern Gun books? It would be consistent with their logic.
I'm also quite certain that any monies from sales of the product went into PB's general fund and have long since been used to pay for utilities/various reprints/owed salaries/etc.
Forar has stated several times that Wayne has said that the amount of uncollected pledges was approximately the same amount as the money added in the BackerKit. I don't have the exact source, but Forar brought it up a lot. So, it was a wash.
I'd advise people doing the math to be careful making assumptions. Because there are two prices for production. Setup (which is a fixed cost), and the production run (which is based on volume. The numbers given for the production run are simply way too high. If a core set of RRT cost more than $10 to produce, I'd be absolutely shocked. But like the math in medical research, the first box would have cost several hundred thousand. It's easy to get lost in the numbers, but the larger the volume, the less pro-rata'd the boxes become, both by economy of scale, and by spreading the fixed cost across a larger sample size.
It's for that reason, stuff like the box set inclusion is being way overvalued. As the core set already factors the fixed cost of the Tomahawks (as an example), the expansion pack is literally pennies on the dollar. Using Stormonu's raw numbers, I wouldn't count on those 4600 TomaDefs box costing more than $20K for the run, not $150K.
The best way to do the math, I think, is to figure PB/ND didn't want to take a loss on a BattleCry. And so that for everything that went into a BC, assume a modest padding (say $25 intrinsic shipping, and $25 padding). So, they budgeted somewhere in the neighbourhood of what, 6500 core boxes (I lost count), for about 520K. That includes all fixed costs (the purpose of Kickstarting this), and the production run for that number of boxes. The non-BC Addons are much more difficult to calculate, because the numbers are unknown. You can't just assume similar numbers. Things like the Monster might have come close to a 1:1 ratio of backer to purchase, but I only bought 1 vs 8 BC's, I'm pretty sure Forar bought 3 vs 8 BC's. But I bought 4 boxes of VEF/1D (and the PB cost on those is going to be skewed), and zero ZenInf. So the numbers on those could be way out of whack.
Anyways, I've been up for 27 hours, so brain no work good. My point is don't get locked into arbitrary simple numbers, when the math is a lot more complicated, and we're not likely to get from PB the values needed to make even a close guess. I give the current numbers a likely +/-50%. That's how weird that kind of thing could be.
Regardless, my personal opinion is that while I'm just not sure if any money is left, or if it was spent on things it shouldn't, I'd wager significantly that any money they do have on hand is insufficient to finish the project, without a large cash infusion from PB's general account. And as I've said in an earlier post, it's not going to be profitable, I doubt highly that Wave 2 will happen.
PALLADIUM BOOKS® WEEKLY UPDATE – JUNE 2, 2017
By Kevin Siembieda
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™
We have spent a lot of this week working on putting things together for RRT Wave 2 and the future of Robotech® RPG Tactics™. As soon as we have hard details and estimated release dates we feel are solid, we will be thrilled to post them.
PALLADIUM BOOKS® WEEKLY UPDATE – JUNE 2, 2017
By Kevin Siembieda
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™
We have spent a lot of this week working on putting things together for RRT Wave 2 and the future of Robotech® RPG Tactics™. As soon as we have hard details and estimated release dates we feel are solid, we will be thrilled to post them.
Still no information years later...
Yeah, it's almost like it's a puzzle for him. How much he can say, without saying anything. Hey, Kevin. How about you give ONE SOLITARY FACT? Have you settled on a manufacturer? If not, nothing else is relevant. What's the point of failure that 2017 joins 2016, 2015, and 2014 as kicking the can another year. Just a reminder, at this point in June, 2014, we saw the revised prototypes of Spartans (the ones that "had to be done that way"), and "the beginning of manufacturing" was just a week away.
This is also the second sale in a row that has the RRT core at 30% off, now making it a 21 day sale (with anyone buying it on July 1st, being truly suckered). It's as if they've still got a surplus of stock, that 3 years on, they're still having trouble shifting. Regarding the prior issue of having selected a manufacturer, have you got the capacity to produce more if/when you run out of stock, and the "relaunch" happens?
It's not that he's blatantly full of gak, it's that he's so blatantly bad about pretending he's not.
We have some big things brewing at Palladium Books. Robotech® eBooks are just one of the many projects brewing behind the scenes. With any luck, we will have several fun and exciting announcements over the next couple of months. The big news will be our plans for RRT Wave Two and the relaunch of Robotech® RPG Tactics™. We are just waiting until we are confident we have everything in place and can hit the release dates with everything we want to see happen. Also working on ... gosh ... all kinds of things. But our focus is on product releases. Exciting things are brewing. Watch for the announcements and changes coming in the months ahead. There should be a lot of them large and small.
When have you ever reliably come close to hitting a release date, jackass. Seriously, until it goes to the printer, he doesn't seem capable of hitting any target he announces. And focusing on product releases? Focusing? “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
I see he's already slipping the release date on one of his June releases (that is already over a year late) into July. And the one closest to being finished (Atlantean), is still being worked on, rather than in final editing/layout. So I'd take the over on that being punted into next month at least. I do fully expect them to rush job at least one (and probably only one) book into production before GenCon, but not more than that. And they may just go with RAW versions, because nothing would shock me at this point. The companion book to Heroes of Humanity, that was supposed to be a month behind last June's release is still NFETA.
Oh, speaking of GenCon, it looks like there's substantial interest in demogames that provide materials are kind of popular (all the smaller demos are sold out, and more than half the tickets of the two space games are sold), but the two competitive events that require people to bring their own, are truly anemic (3 tickets sold of 24, two quite probably to the same person). Remember, this is will be the first official tournament in two years. I hope for Dan's sake, that more people sign up, but if PB can't fill attendance for 12 player tourneys, it'll be a pretty significant nail.
Well I love to come here and read the posts that you all put up here. I read PB update for June 2 2017. What a load cow crap. They have no money for Wave 2 so they are stringing us along . Do any of you guys and gals believe they (PB) have any of New Robotech books out by Gen Con ? I don't . They scraping the bottom of the barrel for money. Its funny that they selling Robotech Rpg books in e-book form . I think they desperate for money. What a joke.
Simple reply is nothing for RTT, books or otherwise until 2018 even in the most optimistic wishlisr.
Changing tack, the scanty imformation in the latest PBWU does suggest there may be changes, to what who knows /
However, kets have fun with a couple of possibilities - I fewwly acknowledge the likliehood of any PB progress on RTT is very very remote
First off PB having realised they cannor do all of wave 2 in one go, deciided to split it into w2 and now w3. Wpuld a limited run of say super valks, Fpa and MPA keep the wolves off them for awile?
Secomd a change of material to a softer plastic to enable preassembled pieces, possibility using Prodos's much touted unicast system - the thought occurred when I saw the route talen for the gRifts BG.
Just some ideas to play around with to pass the time
DEZOAT wrote: Well I love to come here and read the posts that you all put up here. I read PB update for June 2 2017. What a load cow crap. They have no money for Wave 2 so they are stringing us along . Do any of you guys and gals believe they (PB) have any of New Robotech books out by Gen Con ? I don't . They scraping the bottom of the barrel for money. Its funny that they selling Robotech Rpg books in e-book form . I think they desperate for money. What a joke.
To be honest if it wasn't for the fact that I stopped buying their books due to how they've been treating you guys I know I'd be buying a few of them.
wilycoyote wrote: Simple reply is nothing for RTT, books or otherwise until 2018 even in the most optimistic wishlisr.
Changing tack, the scanty imformation in the latest PBWU does suggest there may be changes, to what who knows /
However, kets have fun with a couple of possibilities - I fewwly acknowledge the likliehood of any PB progress on RTT is very very remote
First off PB having realised they cannor do all of wave 2 in one go, deciided to split it into w2 and now w3. Wpuld a limited run of say super valks, Fpa and MPA keep the wolves off them for awile?
Secomd a change of material to a softer plastic to enable preassembled pieces, possibility using Prodos's much touted unicast system - the thought occurred when I saw the route talen for the gRifts BG.
Just some ideas to play around with to pass the time
They can't afford the shipping for Wave 2, so adding additional waves wouldn't work. I guess they could ask backers to pony up additional shipping, but what are the odds enough backers would give PB more money?
Changing material would cause rioting. At least, going by what happens to Mantic whenever they announce a material change.
There is little chance we will ever get a substantial and informative update, let alone Wave 2. They have had years to post a simple update with the production status of the minis and they can't be bothered to do it. Week after week we hear the same sad, tired meaningless platitudes.
From PBs perspective, there is nothing good by spending money trying to finish RRT. Why throw good money after bad? They just can't tell us that.
I dumped mine on ebay and got $117.50. KS says I'm in for $255. So, I'm out $137.50 or a discounted 40k 8th starter set.
After reading all of this, I think the $ is gone and wave 2 and + will never happen.
I hope that my stuff took a sale away from PB.
I has been over 4 years (I think), he could have sand casted the mini's, took a sailboat to China, and hand cast all of the wave 2 stuff in that time. So, he hasn't. I don't believe that he wanted to screw over a bunch of customers. I think he just mismanaged almost all of this. I guessing this was his first trip to the land of big $ and at one point he had a bank account with over a million dollars in it. Therefore, the only real reason that we don't have our stuff is that PB can't make it. Casters in China would gladly take more of his money, hence that leaves that there isn't enough $ left.
If PB admits this, sure some KS thing will happen and people will attempt to get refunds. But, guess what he doesn't have it. PB would declare bankruptcy and we'd all be the proud owners of some RRT wave 1 stuff and Rift books.
What is the chance that we will be playing the next version of 40k before we get any real news from PB?
Alpharius wrote: So Kevin's going to keep kicking the can down the road until retirement and/or death?
Maybe?
That's become my primary theory. AFAIK, Kevin's able to claim retirement this time next year (age 62). As can pretty much every other member of the staff, except one. Hope you've got an exit plan, Wayne.
I don't expect him to retire immediately, but as long as he can kick the can to April, the pressure is off for him, and he can start giving even less feths than he does now.
Of course that'll be a big hit to his ego, his company going bankrupt. But we know the kind of person he is. He'll be able to self justify it as being the "haterz" fault. And he'll have enough fanbois that will take that as gospel.
Note, I don't think that this was the original plan, but I think ever since not long after the big history of everything, it was at least something he's considered.
n815e wrote: Action figures are not going to sustain a long retirement.
I was more thinking just social security payments, which can be started at age 62. Which I believe are protected from bankruptcy provisions. Not that I expect him to be personally liable when HMS Palladium inevitably runs aground.
AFAIK (and IANAL), if corporate funds are misused within the corporate structure, then it's the corporation that's liable, and not any individual owners. The corporate shield is, if I'm understanding correctly, only pierced if something extra-corporate illegal was done (more than what's mostly speculated). So, if PB spent the money elsewhere within the corp (running costs, other projects), Kevin is protected. If he's been funnelling that money into his own accounts at more than a wages level, or buying yaghts for personal use, then he's not. So unless there's been some kind of financial criminality rather than corporate misuse, Kevin should be OK.
On a side note, I decided to skim through Kevin's biography (I wanted to double check his age for my first para), and while it's a slog, there's some interesting tidbits in there. Financial issues from inception (had to borrow money from a friend's mother to get the first book published), and lack of focus (the first book published was not the first book he wanted to do), and frequent delays (took three years to publish that first intended book). And a crapload of blather about how awesome he is. So in other words, almost 40 years on, nothing's changed.
DEZOAT wrote: Well I love to come here and read the posts that you all put up here. I read PB update for June 2 2017. What a load cow crap. They have no money for Wave 2 so they are stringing us along . Do any of you guys and gals believe they (PB) have any of New Robotech books out by Gen Con ? I don't . They scraping the bottom of the barrel for money. Its funny that they selling Robotech Rpg books in e-book form . I think they desperate for money. What a joke.
To be honest if it wasn't for the fact that I stopped buying their books due to how they've been treating you guys I know I'd be buying a few of them.
Well I was looking for the e-books from PB about 2 years ago and I was surprise there were none of the Robotech Rpg books at all. I have all Battletech books in e-books or PDFs to date , just in case something happen to my books collection. I wonder if PB is going to do all the Robotech Rpg books and the Macross II books? What funny is I was posting on PB Facebook why Kev didn't do this back 2014 he would sold a lot back then. Some one posted that Kev like to drag feet on things like that oh well his loss. Later.
Well, we do seem to be finally running out of steam with RRT.
A watched pot never boils?
I keep thinking of this clip when things start coming to a close:
Spoiler:
Yep, even the PB site is pretty darn sleepy.
KS is moving a little.
Anyway, whatever will I do for another nostalgia fix?
RTT is a bin fire at low tide.. Any Rifts kickstarter will sink under its weight. Its funny how zombicide new kickstarter is over two million and
the Deception board game just started today and is on track to get its target goal the first day.
But we all know Kevin will keep saying "I am working on it" knowing that is nothing true about it. But that allows him to skirt around the kickstarter
rules till the end of time.. because that's what his lawyers told him to do..
So at the 50th anniversary of Gen Con owned by a guy he once sued the pants of... I am sure Kevin will be there with a good twenty feet of space
between him and the public..don't want to get the con crud or accidentally asked a question about something he doesn't want to answer.
Kevin has sued a lot of people (and you can tell from looking at Palladium Books's stunning success that it's a winning long term strategy) - can you be more specific?
Merijeek wrote: Kevin has sued a lot of people (and you can tell from looking at Palladium Books's stunning success that it's a winning long term strategy) - can you be more specific?
I assume based on Google they mean Peter Adkison who owns Gen Con, LLC and was formerly at Wizards of the Coast who was sued by Palladium.
Anyone builds ANYTHING to do with Robotech RPG Tactics please post it.
I got my Terragenisis stuff and so terrain for RRT and Battletech is next in the works if 40k does not keep calling me over with SWA or the much anticipated 8th edition.
One more thing to add to the list of RRT being in trouble is that now is probably the worst time EVER to attempt anything RRT.
No support from our PB friends and gaming companies are firing on all cylinders and kickstarters are cranking out good product.
They are doomed due to everyone else's success.
Even my finances are fairly reasonable which is a nice change and everything else is getting the money... or way too much travel lately (taking time from hobby AND money).
Airports tend to get upset when you pack sharp implements with flammable liquids.
I suppose these are the better "complaints" to have.
Anyone builds ANYTHING to do with Robotech RPG Tactics please post it.
I got my Terragenisis stuff and so terrain for RRT and Battletech is next in the works if 40k does not keep calling me over with SWA or the much anticipated 8th edition.
One more thing to add to the list of RRT being in trouble is that now is probably the worst time EVER to attempt anything RRT.
No support from our PB friends and gaming companies are firing on all cylinders and kickstarters are cranking out good product.
They are doomed due to everyone else's success.
Even my finances are fairly reasonable which is a nice change and everything else is getting the money... or way too much travel lately (taking time from hobby AND money).
Airports tend to get upset when you pack sharp implements with flammable liquids.
I suppose these are the better "complaints" to have.
I'm not working on RRT at all unless asked. I'm focused on moving. If I can get a place with a game room, then I will get back to working on the rules and playtesting for Dimensional Warfare, which will include my RRT minis as well as my Invid, REF and all the rest. Battletech vs Robotech is really fun!
Honestly, have you considered reaching out to Paulson games and coming up with a KS together (he makes the models, you make the game)?
Automatically Appended Next Post: (You could even do homages, like CMON, to rub it in PB's face - the Terran Transforming Fighter Jet (with 3 modes), the Warrior Alien Chicken Walker and the Invader Cybot Shock Trooper....
The multi-week sale is still ongoing, and has prime location.
Nothing of note related to RRT. Surprise! The very first para of the PBWU talks about getting RRT moving. The section on RRT can be boiled down to "Working on it. Details when locked in. Excited!". Glad someone is excited, because I highly doubt more than 0.1% of non-employee backers are. Cause you know there are a couple.
There's still mention of the GenCon events. Nearly all the slots on the eight "materials provided" RRT games have sold. That's 51 of 58 slots, with only 7 remaining. And all events having hit their minimum player numbers. The two GenCon tournaments seem to be struggling though. 5 of 24 seats sold, neither event having reached the minimum 4 players listed. And it's probable that it's not 5 unique players, with one or two attendees likely signed up for both events. That is NOT good. Not entirely unexpected, though I'm surprised at the difference between the popular events and the tournaments. I honestly didn't think the need to assemble, paint and bring a small force would be that big a factor, but it looks like it is. Because people will play in droves, if they don't have to do that. Could also be the lack of co-ordination by PB. The first tournament starts at the same time as two Mat-Prov events. The second tourney (1PM Sat) overlaps two (2PM and 3PM). That probably didn't help attendance. It's really looking like these two tourneys are going to be like AdeptiCon and POH in being underattended. Not getting 10+ on either day (or 8+ on both) is IMO an indication that there just isn't an interest in RRT as a competitive venture. Of course, Kevin won't see it that way. I hope Dan's wearing his Hi-Vis vest, so that the bus Kevin throws him under if that happens, at least knows it ran over him.
Carmen and the board game get no mention. Normally this wouldn't be news, but if RRT is getting several sentences, when it's a bigger fairytale than gRifts, I'd expect something. It's not like Kevin is particularly constrained in his self-editing of the PBWU.
RPG release schedule has been rejiggered. Yeah, I know, right! I was shocked too!
HOH Arsenal has remained at Summer, but is listed as "On the drawing board". So that inspires confidence they'll hit that target. Disavowed has remained at Summer, but is listed as "On the drawing board" too. Garden of the Gods has remained at Summer, but is listed as "On the drawing board", as well. Yeah, those books aren't coming out this year. Atlanteans has gone from June to June/July. With a premium version in August. What. Evah. Sovietski has remained static as Summer. Dark Designs is now July 15th (a specific date!) instead of June. Also, he's still pimping the RAW copies, which makes no sense to me. But Kevin gonna snakeoil. Face of Death still listed as Summer/Fall.
Out of nowhere (pun not intended), comes "Rifts Living Nowhere". A book completely unmentioned prior, and set for release NEXT MONTH. So, either Kevin was playing this very close to the vest (unlikely, the man is an unabashed braggart and self-promoter) or someone dropped the manuscript on his desk, and he's announced a release date. Probably without reading it. Though he's already inserted himself into the credits. That's so unlike him. And apparently Nowhere is the name of a place. I wonder if it's a celestial being's skull.
Just a reminder, the first five books in that list were all listed as "Coming in the first six months of 2016". And that PB haven't released any retail product since November 9th 2016.
And that's it for this week.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have got to know who Kevin bribed to get prime position on the latest GenCon newsletter.
Ahhh. I see what it is. PB are offering 30% off in the coupon book. Given the coupon books have been steadily anemic, and discounts aren't common at GenCon, I can see them thinking it's a big deal.
Still, it's a bit on the nose to highlight a company that's circling the drain. Consumer purchases at significant discount are NOT going to save Palladium. Just delay the inevitable.
Stormonu wrote: Dimensional Warfare? What happened to Nodal Wars?
Honestly, have you considered reaching out to Paulson games and coming up with a KS together (he makes the models, you make the game)?
Automatically Appended Next Post: (You could even do homages, like CMON, to rub it in PB's face - the Terran Transforming Fighter Jet (with 3 modes), the Warrior Alien Chicken Walker and the Invader Cybot Shock Trooper....
We had a discussion and a poll and came up with that name as an improvement over Nodal Wars
Anyone want to take my place moderating the proboards?
It occurred to me that I hadn't even looked at the message boards in a long time and that isn't good for a moderator.
Granted, nobody has posted there in three months, but it still isn't responsible of me and I just don't have the interest anymore.
I went from happy enthusiast to disgruntled, but still hopeful, backer to realizing that we'll never see this stuff.
n815e wrote: Anyone want to take my place moderating the proboards?
It occurred to me that I hadn't even looked at the message boards in a long time and that isn't good for a moderator.
Granted, nobody has posted there in three months, but it still isn't responsible of me and I just don't have the interest anymore.
I went from happy enthusiast to disgruntled, but still hopeful, backer to realizing that we'll never see this stuff.
I visited off and on and find I am in the same boat: nothing to do.
Honestly, need to get doing stuff or the board is pretty much dead.
I swear Dakka next to Facebook is the most lively spot for Robotech
It is awfully tempting to blame PB for "ruining" the big plans for being able to play epic looking Robotech battles.
They suck as a manufacturer, but the bare-bones models are out there.
I have worked with less in the past.
I can at least say enough interest and outcry has been generated that the end affect is: "I got what I wanted.", not necessarily how I wanted or from whom.
I guess it is that there has been so much "low hanging fruit" of other fun gaming with easier "out of the box" play to be had.
You could rightly say if I was a REAL Robotech fan, whatever Palladium does from here-on should have zero impact on doing what I want.
I keep seeing demonstrated on the other facebook groups, talented people making all kinds of models on the subject.
Palladium tries very hard to appear relevant.
They have proven to be pretty much useless even with their own IP.
I would say the game has firmly shifted over to fan-base owned/support regardless of PB and HG being the IP holders.
I have seen Epic 40k flourish better being dropped by GW than what I see of PB and RRT being "supported".
Stormonu wrote: Bleh - if PB took their customers seriously, i might reciporcate. As far as I'm concerned, they went out of business a few years ago.
They do give the impression that the "lights are on (off in this case?) and nobody home.".
Taking customers seriously I think is understanding that when someone gives you money under an agreement, you are to reciprocate with the wanted item requested.
They keep playing with ways to give out "what they feel like".
Funny, ran into similar characters through my work as suppliers.
They made some big parts for us we supplied the mating parts to check fit for their build.
We were told the parts were wrong because they did not fit theirs.
I had reviewed the parts previously, measured them again and found they had more clearance that should have helped.
I said check again and they send me a picture of measuring instrument on their part with the caption "See it is correct."
I read the instrument and could see their part was way oversized, sent an email saying as much. (I "think" he was trying to baffle with BS... not sure where his head was at.)
Got a phone call telling me "You can off and you can take the part after paying $30000! (holding ransome??)
Told them to calm down and that it was their error, not ours.
They pulled a few other squirrelly bits after that as we tried to finish / extract the job.
They were looking at a fair bit of business from us (3 other large projects coming down the pipe) and just by a few emotional outbursts: it all went away.
Last thing I hear him complaining is "Now what am I going to do? You owe me for the work you pulled!" My only response was "You owe us for possibly entering us into a late delivery fine on the contract and should sue you for that amount."
The real issue was they were unreliable and rather volatile so they were a business risk to project timelines.
The sense of entitlement was absolutely amazing, they treated the work we gave as them doing us a favor and to like it or lump it (found mainly when it was on their machine).
Ultimately, the customer decides if you get work or money and in the end all repeat business as a certainty is decided.
Palladium Books and that wonderful supplier will NEVER get my business (money) now.
Narcissists can make the world such a strange and magical place I tell you...
Sounds like a recent experience I had with a contractor. Guy called me just before midnight with a quote. I told him I wasn't interested and hung up. Next day he calls back and says that I owed him an explanation for not accepting his bid. When I told him I didn't appreciate the time of the call or his attitude, he started lighting me up over email for not appreciating his hard work as a small business owner. Some people just seem to think the world owes them everything because they tried.
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™
Wayne and I spent half this morning on a conference call with a manufacturer, discussing their initial quote. There were some points that needed clarification, but it was a productive call and we look forward to getting their revised quote soon. A lot is going on with all aspects of RRT Wave 2 and plans for the relaunch of the game line and strong support, new product releases, demo kits, tournaments, organized play, and a lot of other ideas for the future of Robotech® RPG Tactics™. As soon as we have hard details and strong estimated release dates, we will be thrilled to share them with you.
But the good news is they hired a business manager to fix all problems and they now have Rifts cooler cups... Just what everyone was asking for..
Sadly the new business manager is fighting an uphill battle and the problem is the person he works for... So how do you fix that??
"we look forward to getting their revised quote soon."
Yeah. Soon.
Days? Weeks? Months?
I know Kevin is afraid of specifics. But if the manufacturer wasn't able to finalize a date (+/- a week) for the quote, then they're not serious about it.
As for the new business manager... dang. That's a position that should come with hazard pay. Wonder how long he'll last. And how often he'll hide behind "I'll get back to you on that". Because you know everything will still go through Kevin. I expect nothing except more obfuscation.
Apparently they are not having much luck in finding someone that is willing to produce wave 2 for solely the glory of working with Kevin, instead of actual money.
Meanwhile, one wonders how these clowns can afford to pay a 'business manager'. Maybe this fool is willing to work for some of that vast overstock of wave 1 still sitting on pallets?
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™
Wayne and I spent half this morning on a conference call with a manufacturer, discussing their initial quote. There were some points that needed clarification, but it was a productive call and we look forward to getting their revised quote soon. A lot is going on with all aspects of RRT Wave 2 and plans for the relaunch of the game line and strong support, new product releases, demo kits, tournaments, organized play, and a lot of other ideas for the future of Robotech® RPG Tactics™. As soon as we have hard details and strong estimated release dates, we will be thrilled to share them with you.
But the good news is they hired a business manager to fix all problems and they now have Rifts cooler cups... Just what everyone was asking for..
Sadly the new business manager is fighting an uphill battle and the problem is the person he works for... So how do you fix that??
Kevin also has it on good authority that the packages will be delivered by unicorns.
You almost feel sorry for the guy.. The company has been close to bankrupt a number of times and changes required will go against Kevin..
Makes me wonder if the guy that embezzled all the Kevin's toys and sold them a few decades ago was actually trying to get money he was owed.
Knowing that Kevin cared more about his toys than his workers and the guy just wanted revenge of some sort.
Again I do feel sorry for the guy... he will spend years trying fix the damage done and it may not get him anywhere.
Scott Gibbons ran game after game of his improved and evolving Rifts® board game. Wayne and I had intended to play, but somehow we just never had the time to do so. I heard a lot of positive feedback about the game and look forward to playing it. (Scott left a copy of it for us to peruse, not that we’ve had time to do so yet. As of May 16, as I write this, we have been working like crazy to catch up with work and get back to releasing new products.) Scott is a frequent contributor to The Rifter® and an all-around nice guy. If I met his wife Gwen before (I think I have), I couldn’t remember with certainty. It was nice meeting their son, Jacob, who is a natural born gamer. All three of the Gibbons family members played in Game Three of my DeSilca Aftermath game.
I dont recall a rifts board game in 2012 by Scott.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just saw the announcement about his hiring;
We have brought in Scott Gibbons to manage the company. Scott will handle many of the day to day business matters and marketing. This should lead to more products and timely releases, and improved communications.
A cursory search ties Scott to Palladium and a board game. Is Carmen out on his ear (sans license fee, sorry Carmen!) and Scott in as the new proud owner of a license to kickstart his OWN board game?
Regardless, the guy is a Kevster buddy so has no power to make the Kevster DO anything. Another Palladium puppet prepared to feign ignorance about the Robotech disaster rather than tell Kevin it's pretty much his non delivery that is the source of his woes. Expect Scott to act 'shocked' and 'appalled' at the Robotech situation and promise to set it straight before running silent about it for another 24 months. How many clowns can the Palladium smart car hold?
Regarding the Gibbons Rifts game, maybe that's the Talisman clone knock-off that was being bandied about? I know it was brought up when this most recent incarnation was brought up, and it was categorically denied as being what Carmen was doing. Quite possible it was yet a third person.
And as I and others have said, unless there's an announcement that Kevin is stepping away from ALL business AND editorial duties, and others are named as developmental heads for the various properties, I don't see why there's any reason to believe anything will change, other than Kevin having a meatshield. Kevin's ALWAYS been the problem. And the bottleneck. If everything has to pass through Kevin to Scott, and Scott has to answer to Kevin for every decision and mistake, how is this any different?
Not that it changes anything. As spectators in this farce, we're used to seeing this play out. Promises of change, continuation of the status quo.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just saw the announcement about his hiring;
We have brought in Scott Gibbons to manage the company. Scott will handle many of the day to day business matters and marketing. This should lead to more products and timely releases, and improved communications.
Dang. I can hear that bus coming already.
When the old Gypsy woman said he'd be stuck by a dog she forgot to use the proper word - Greyhound.
Scott is also the head of improved social media...
So he will have to go to Kevin and tell him that he can not keep saying "we are working on RTT" every week.
That it requires an actual update to make an improvement with customers.
Then Kevin will explain the truth to him that there is no money to advance the work on RTT so
there can be no update... And since there is no money Scott will also be told he will be paid in
action figures the next few weeks.
Remember, Carmen is the only one in a position to "fix" RRT, so hiring Scott will do us no good...
I too am wondering exactly what monies PB could possibly be paying Scott's salary with - perhaps Carmen took that unreviewed copy of the Rifts BG and now Unca Kev needs to keep a lawsuit off his back ... one way or another.
I remember having a manager that called the whole plant together and told everyone to "smarten up or he will hire a bunch of trained monkeys to replace you."
Are we sure this is the guy we think it is?
I keep thinking of Kevin going with this:
I am sure the new guy is starting off trying to log-in with his 256 character password (cant be too careful).
Then he will get a lesson on Palladium communication methods and policies by NMI.
Kevin, will then give a briefing on how he is best to be managed, bringing coffee is a good start.
Most of these somewhat nasty jokes are more aimed at his co-workers.
I feel some sympathy for him however, but question his career future.
Maybe he will change the wiki on Robotech Tactics saying that it is "fake news"
Then try a law suite against the dakka trolls for Defamation of character.
Only to find out all of its real...RTT is trying to break records for the most messed up kickstarter.
But I really wonder how connected to the gaming industry Scott really is.Just how someone can not know
about the Palladium / RTT train-wreak and still wants to join the company..
Maybe its just the small dream in all of us have to be part of the gaming industry some how..
but his choices seems to be bad..
I see that 4 days on, the PBWU is finally up on PB's Facebook page.
An auspicious start to the person designated as responsible for "positive changes in the weeks and months ahead. Starting with better communication".
Honestly, I was wondering if the absence of the PBWU from Facebook was a conscious choice, given it tends to be equal parts fans, apologists and critics, even with the wholesale removal of a ton of people. But this just indicates nope, no greater plan, just delayed by incompetence or ignorance.
Across my Facebook Feed came a digital image from a sculptor talking about the new Rifts: Rogue Heross miniature game from Palladium books. The sculptor said this was the first of many more sculpts he was working on. I'm all for a company making new product and such, but this was a definite "WTF" moment. How can Palladium be making another miniatures game when they haven't finished the Robotech Wave 2 Kickstarter miniatures game? Really?
Nothing much that wasn't already said in the PBWU.
Some good points in the commentary. Namely Drachnien (among others) with "What's the reason for the 30+ month delay?". And relatedly, Forar with the "What happened to the individual breakdown?". It's one thing to continue to not answer the question about what's GOING to happen. But an explanation of why things went completely off the rails should not be out of the question, nor covered by the "when we have details" excuse.
It will, of course, be ignored. Because it's highly unlikely that there'd be a good reason that'd satisfy anyone why this has been in a limbo of vagueness and stagnancy.
The question I would ask, but won't likely be answered, is "Does PB have the liquid assets on hand to produce, freight, and ship Wave 2 to it's backers?", given . It'd set people's minds at ease if it is, but a non-answer is arguably the same as a negative. And I don't think anyone thinks PB is capable of raising the funds if they don't already have it.
I love that he says he's not a yes man. From what he's posted so far, including his Siembieda-like ability to turn one word into ten without actually providing content, I can only assume he's more of a "Absolutely, positively, you betcha boss"-man.
Same here; I'm somewhat happy a post has been made on the KS to attempt to start addressing issues, but it is a far cry from actually addressing the existing issues as of yet.
I'm watching for the July 4th update; if it doesn't manifest we're clearly in the same boat, but I'm double-crossing my fingers that this may be the Kevin Roundtree we've been waiting for.
The more I think about it, the fact he was brought in in May and is only now piping up in the KS after about a month and a half later already has dimmed my confidence that nothing will change. (2 weeks, maybe - over a month, sounds like typical PB procrastination).
Bad_Syntax's infuriating comments are not improving my mood either.
Why would he be thinking everyone thinks he is just a "yes man" unless he is already reading the dreaded Dakka Dakka forum..
The truth in the matter RTT was the only kickstarter that I have ever put a large amount of money behind.. and I have backed a number of them...
I was hopeful to have a Robotech type "epic" game. I had buddies that wanted to play a mix of RPG and battle game but that boat sank years ago.
Again.. Scott is starting at the same line as Kevin is.. I can say I will win the lottery tomorrow.. but that means I will actually have to buy a ticket.
It's just words until someone says the container is on the water and product will be shipping out a certain month... but at this point
until I have product in hand .. I don't trust anything they say... Palladium FOR YEARS has lied about this for too much and for too long .
Plus the community is dead.. and everyone you talk to about it either don't know or very afraid to buy any product. Don't think a re release will
help anything but ship trash to people that are no longer asking for the product.
n815e wrote: I'm not going to be down on the guy, yet. But he will have to earn respect.
This is where I'm at as well. I'm not expecting a massive avalanche of progress, but I'll give him a few months to fail on his own before declaring it so.
And with the anchor around his ankles that are Kevin and this Campaign's running gag history, I don't expect that tiny bit of benefit of the doubt to last for long.
It's not impossible for him to turn things around, but I do find it very very very unlikely.
So I guess we'll see what happens (or doesn't).
Stormonu wrote: The more I think about it, the fact he was brought in in May and is only now piping up in the KS after about a month and a half later already has dimmed my confidence that nothing will change. (2 weeks, maybe - over a month, sounds like typical PB procrastination).
To be fair, if I was presented with a clusterfeth 4 years in the making, I'd probably want to spend a couple of weeks getting up to speed.
Bad_Syntax's infuriating comments are not improving my mood either.
Yeah, there's some old and new faces showing up. Donkey caves like B_S and Duncan are certainly elevating the level of discourse.
So, how many two-week updates before this guy actually quits with the biweekly updates?
I mean, I know it makes me a hater to have some sort of expectation that PB would abandon a promise to improve communication, but there's no way this guy makes it through 16 weeks before he starts skipping.
It is extremely suspect that July 4th has been chosen as the next update date.
We shall see.
@Forar - two, maybe three weeks I could understand. But we're talking "hired in May", that's at least 20, probably at least 30 days ago. That, to me, is approaching slacker values.
Here are the things that stood out to me in the update:
I have been working hard to get an accurate assessment of where Palladium Books® stands, not only overall, but specifically with regard to Robotech® RPG Tactics™
and
Wayne and Kevin spent half of Friday morning (7/16/2017) on a conference call with a manufacturer (I did not sit in on the call due to another pressing business need that morning).
So right off the bat, we see that "working hard to get an accurate assessment of where Palladium Books® stands, ... specifically with regard to Robotech® RPG Tactics™" is definitely secondary at best. He has much more important things to do. This is the ONE thing where he could have given first hand information, but it wasn't important enough to bother with. He starts off with a strong middle finger to set the tone.
As I said above, I developed it as a hobby for my own enjoyment. If it should ever be made into an actual product sold by Palladium, I would be thrilled, but I am not holding my breath for it at this time and it is not why I’m here. I’m here to make a difference and to help grow the company.
Exactly. It's not why he's here. His self promotion of his board game has no place in the update or anything to do with what he needs to be doing. We didn't need to know about his hopes for his game, only that it existed. This is the second most obvious example that he's a chip off Unca Kev. The most obvious example is next.
Over the last few weeks, I have become intimately familiar with all aspects of the company on all fronts, financial and otherwise. While it is not the biggest company I have ever worked for, the potential to become a giant in the gaming world is definitely present.
This is inexcusable. This is not an opportunity to talk about how "great" Palladium Books is. This is the LAST audience he should be trying to spin that BS to.
I've thought for a long time now that Unca Kev is just trolling the Robotech fandom. It seems even that has become so taxing he has to outsource it.
Or he got hired on the 31st and has been on the job (in business days, because counting weekends is a bit excessive) for like 16 days.
We don't know, and getting into the weeds about what constitutes him being behind in response to him saying he was getting up to speed is pessimistic even for this crowd.
We can give or take a week or two and not be that far off. 20 working days doesn't seem like that much when digging into a mess 4 years in the making.
I mean, man, you know I'm not gonna white knight these donkey caves. If anything, I'm content to let them have enough rope to figuratively hang themselves on their own merits.
He showed up, we'll see what he has to say in the next few updates. Probably not much, probably some excuses, and I did present (here? Kickstarter? Somewhere) that I'll be impressed if he manages to make wave two land in the next 18 months (yes, obviously, if at all).
Look at it this way, PB has spent years being willing to put in the bare minimum of effort to shield themselves from critique for their fans (obviously we're not buying it). This move is a step up that wasn't needed, they could have ridden that steady and ongoing silence for years more.
So at least it's a little change, and I'll give this dude a shot fair and square, and when we hit September (purely as an example) without substantial info coming our way, we can officially declare him the next failed PBRRT manager (aka: The Widowmaker)
My patience is a little bit thin when I think of product and work I need to support in my day to day.
Think about the flurry of activity that is Palladium... do you hear the crickets?
I hate to say I would be more concerned figuring out how to fill my day rather than manage it if I was him.
Most of his time initially will be figuring out how to fit in with the "group" and ensure there are no errors in protocol.
Then catching up on the "story so-far" and then strategizing on how to make things look rosy and wonderful while seeing what positive action is available to improve the situation.
I think his best action is to keep his resume up to date and out there (if I were him).
Eh, we've seen it mentioned several times Kevin & Co. working weekends, but point taken. I'm not really expecting much, any shifting of the boulder laying on top of them would be interesting at least - at this point watching it roll back on top of them is some form of entertainment.
Some more information, and he seems like a huge improvement over Kevin and Wayne.
But there's still something lacking. He's talking about an end of year release. Which means one of three things.
1) He's Kevin level full of gak (I'm giving him some benefit of the doubt, but I'm not discounting the possibility)
2) Kevin's lying to him about the progress made.
3) There's been a lot more work done than has been stated.
Given that from first test sprue (May 2nd) to the proper release (October 4th) was 5 months. And there's barely six for the remainder of the year. And that doesn't take into account all the pre-production work, or that end of year tends to be a busy time for manufacturers and shipping.
So, if 3 is possible, then the question I have, is why hasn't PB shown progress? The reason for the complete lack of faith is twofold. First, PB promising and failing to deliver. And the second, a complete lack of SHOWN progress. I can't think of a single justifiable reason why significant progress hasn't been shown, if it's true. The primary unjustifiable reason would be that Kevin's so petty that a couple hundred vocal complainers outweighs the ~5000 or so who haven't said much if anything critical.
Hope that Scott is able to wrangle things, but for every answer he gives, it leaves several very poignant questions in it's wake. Nanobadger (I think) brought up the point that if they're this close to finishing, why bring him in?
And from a production perspective, the question I'd ask, is about the other three aspects of production that haven't been addressed. Obviously, the first one is the resins. If the end of the year is a possibility, this needs to get done soon. The second, is the partnership with GHQ dead? If there is a push to finish, some backers might want some of the promo figures (specifically Breetai), and it'd be important to know if they can get more supplies. Which brings up the third one, if the "relaunch" is to happen, from a commercial perspective, do they have the capacity to print more Wave 1? This isn't an issue if they're just looking to close out the Kickstarter, but if they're wanting to make this a thing, the capacity to produce more is important. Yes, I'm aware that it's highly unlikely RRT will ever get a significant retail footing. But I can definitely see the slapstickesque situation of someone wanting to get involved, and not being able to buy the core box. Or certain expansion boxes. Which would sink any attempt at resurgence. Probably not an issue, but would be deeply ironic.
Merijeek wrote: Are you forgetting that they have, apparently, thousands of restocks for anything anyone might want for Wave One?
I didn't forget. And I don't think that they are running low. Yet.
But we simply don't know how much of that initial stock is left, and it's not inexhaustible. But if the planned relaunch is successful (no, I don't think it will be) and they can't restock cores then it gets sunk again.
But I know in large and small corporations, a very rich person can buy up stock in a company and become someone a chairman on the board of executives..
With the promise of the money invested would be returned later and they would help with the direction of the company. Plus if the company does well
the person also has a chance of making even more money.
So just guessing here.. if Scott was a big wig at a mid to small toy company that moved, he may been invested and was bought out..Meaning he had a large lump sum
of money sitting that he need to do something fast or pay a ton of taxes on.
The plan at Palladium was to do a super great kick starter with Carmen's Rifts game.. then bankroll the RTT wave 2 with the money in hopes they can have made
enough back in the two years before they need to product the game.
Just in the nick of time Scott came along and said he would help out and invest in the company.. and the process gets a higher position in the company than good old Wayne...
and they can drop the whole thing of spinning plates in hopes that something goes crashing down.. Now they don't need to rush Carmen anymore to get something out for money...
The Scott money can keep the company afloat till the end of the year, maybe enough to get part of wave 2 done in the process..
Just still feel something is rotten in Denmark..Gen Con is just around the corner and I am sure they will have something super amazing hot mega duper to say on what the plans
are... but we been in the planning phase for years now... most companies normally abandon a project after just a few months of non movement especially in the planning phase...
But I can say one thing.. Palladium games in not like any company out there that is still in business.
Elbows wrote: What a pathetic image to attempt to promote your product...
Not really.. this is true to Palladium style.. Everything starts at the top..
Can you imagine being hired as a media /public relations manager for them...
Living nightmare..
But just look at the crazy turn around of Games Workshop after the new CEO took over..hint hint..
My own quote from March... who knew I was psychic?? or is it psychotic?? always get those two confused...
Poor Scott, if you believe in reincarnation, not sure what bad things he did in his previous life to cause this...
but the punishment he is about to go though will not be good.
The way I see it, even if this works out as described, there's not much chance Kevin will allow Scott to take the credit. He's never been one to have someone overshadow him.
So win or lose, I expect there to be a bus coming, with Scott's name underneath.
I don't fully agree with my theory either... just a theory..
But there are people out there that sees Kevin as a great designer.
And in the past I may have agreed.
The thing is a great designer don't make you a great business man.
Looking at his past history, he has had a ton of money trouble.
There is were you should consider now on backing his company..
As most of us RTT kickstarter backers have found out..
With that, I am sure you know people in your own personal life that are nice people
and great to hang out with... but wouldn't give them money to save their life.
They get the benefit of doubt when they have shown some progress. Which they haven't in almost 2 years. Until then, regardless of what goes on, Palladium and Kickstarter are just a bunch of thieves and liars.
What was the last product that Kevin fully created and wrote himself? Im pretty sure that everything put out in the last few years have been written by other people and then corrected by Kevin to fit his genius vision.
Next thing you'll tell us is that a boutique furniture company bought a game company without knowing how deep they were in debt and rented a zoo!
Oh, wait.
Anyway, I skimmed for Scott Gibbons on LinkedIn, but didn't find one with a toy or game background (I didn't click on the links to see everyone's full resume) in Michigan. If anyone finds anything public, please post.
Yes, I give credit to Scott for being professional compared to Kevin, but one day he will have to disagree with him...
One day soon Kevin will come up with the idea of Rifts flavored peanut butter and want to pour a bunch of money into it.
Scott will have to disagree and that when the proof that he can push against bad projects that will only loose them money.
The two RTT updates are nice.. and show someone is trying to calm the crowd.. instead of trying to incite a riot like during
the rift game kickstarter one of the moderators said they would not answer any questions from backers of a $1.
By Gen Con we will know if he is going to lead them to better places or just singing along with the chorus..
Genoside07 wrote: Yes, I give credit to Scott for being professional compared to Kevin, but one day he will have to disagree with him...
One day soon Kevin will come up with the idea of Rifts flavored peanut butter and want to pour a bunch of money into it.
Scott will have to disagree and that when the proof that he can push against bad projects that will only loose them money.
The two RTT updates are nice.. and show someone is trying to calm the crowd.. instead of trying to incite a riot like during
the rift game kickstarter one of the moderators said they would not answer any questions from backers of a $1.
By Gen Con we will know if he is going to lead them to better places or just singing along with the chorus..
Yep. Those are the two concerns I have, regarding Scott's effectiveness. What he'll be able to do if there's a fundamental disagreement in direction with Kevin, and with the timetable he's given so far, what he'll be able to accomplish before he's seen as just another mouthpiece.
I like the confidence and professional demeanor he's had so far, and the acceptance that there's a hostile (or at the least skeptical) environment he's got to deal with, but that'll only get him so far.
If there's no visible progress in the next 4 Updates, I don't think there'll be anyone that will continue to give him any benefit of the doubt that isn't already in the tank for PB. And if he misses the July 4th deadline, I expect things to go very poorly for him. Because it'll just seem like more of the "overpromise, underdeliver" that we're used to.
Given the length of this clusterfeth (almost 214 weeks, another 6 isn't much), that's not a long time to try to right the ship. And again, I wonder how Kevin will feel if things do start to turn for the better, and Scott (not Kevin) is seen as the reason for this.
As Genoside07 says, "The thing is a great designer don't make you a great business man". GC is just another example of how being skilled in one area, in this case furniture building, doesn't mean you're skilled in another.
Also, like KS, GC had a long period of time between the time you paid for your product (pre-order?) and received it. With the company bankrupt, it's not clear how customers are being refunded, if they will. Some of those who are still waiting on their orders after having paid for them are resorting to cc disputes.
Myself, I'm curious if anyone who puts in such a pre-order directly from a company doesn't back KS projects because of the risk of non-delivery and delays.
Geek Chic was something I always wondered how it would survive, High end gaming tables is a very narrow market. And once someone buys a table I doubt they would
buy another in their life time. So that makes a customer base dry up the more they sale.. Plus other companies opened that did a similar cheaper product. That means
it will not end well.. Plus most companies plan years ahead what to move to as the product that is currently selling well no longer does. Seems there was no future plans to
move to. But they knew when to call it and stopped.. unlike other companies
That is what amazes me about Palladium, they don't release product regularly; have a very limited community now, but still manages to keep the door open by some miracle.
There is no way with the past money trouble that Kevin had, that he was able to have anything left of the 1.4 million of kick starter money after four years. That's what makes
me wonder how wave two will ever be produced and paid for.
The other thing is all the weird products that Palladium is doing instead of what we already paid them for RTT, that is actually game products.. Instead they make rifts playing cards
and metal drinking tumblers. Always in very limited numbers and keep saying.. they have a very small supply left so buy them fast.. How is it when you start with a small supply of something
that its important to point out you only have a few left. Start with 12, So rush now.to buy. we only have 10 left...
How exactly is the fact Palladium hired yet another fan friend good news?
Surely the first action of any competent business manager would be to stop hiring fan friends?
Compared to the other events that seem to have mostly filled out swiftly, I think it rather clearly indicates that those who were concerned about the parts count weren't wrong.
Players are relatively eager to spend time playing if they don't have to supply the models. With the caveat that it's possible that most of those taken slots are a handful of *really* dedicated players who are willing to spend most of Gencon doing these mini events. Heh, it could be like the same 4-6'ish people at all of them for all we know.
Regardless, that's just my take on things. And before anyone bothers nitpicking, I'm not saying 'the game is totes popular!', I'm saying that even at the low bar the tournament sets of 200 points, it's pretty unpopular compared to the 15+ other events that I believe all supply the pieces used.
Obviously the big revamp of RRT that's allegedly going to happen (any year now...) isn't going to occur in the next 7 weeks, so maybe the Open House (if it happens next year) or 2018 will be the big turn around (said massively tongue in cheek).
Merijeek wrote: I admire how Kevin manages to find tournament runners as clueless and unsophisticated as he is.
That's got to take some serious talent.
I wouldn't go that far. Dan may not be the most experienced TO out there, but given what he's got to work with (Kevin having final word on things, noone at PB giving a damn about the game, and the game being unfinished), I think he's done about as well as can be expected.
The fact of the matter is, Tournament Organization is an experience thing. And there's two paths to that.
The first, is by running tournaments. Finding out what works, what doesn't, and what needs specific clarification. And PB's public support (or lack thereof) and reputation hasn't given people much cover to do things.
The second is by poaching existing TO's with a better product. A lot of good TO's got their "convention legs" with other games, and migrated to their current game. And well... RRT isn't likely to get a serious TO to jump ship.
I definitely don't put the fault on Dan for the anemic numbers (still at 3 players each). That a game that sold at least 4000 copies in the United States can't get 1/10th of a percent of that to play in a tournament at one of the biggest gaming conventions in the world for the first time in over two years, isn't on the TO. It's on a game that for one reason or another, is on life support.
I'm not faulting him on the tournament numbers. Kevin slit RRT's throat and dumped it in the gutter years ago.
But his flip-flopping tap dance on the miniatures is clearly someone who doesn't actually give a gak, but for some reason is obligated to deal with it.
Merijeek wrote: I'm not faulting him on the tournament numbers. Kevin slit RRT's throat and dumped it in the gutter years ago.
But his flip-flopping tap dance on the miniatures is clearly someone who doesn't actually give a gak, but for some reason is obligated to deal with it.
Agreed. But it was a "damned if you do/don't" situation.
You don't allow them, you piss off those who bought them. You do allow them, you piss off those who didn't or couldn't buy them.
And I wouldn't put it past Kevin to have insisted. After all, the promo figures are the only new releases in the past 2.5 years.
Could also be Subjugator or some of the freelancers. Although the fact kevin hasnt forced anyone to turn up and make up the numbers shows how he little he gives a gak.
Hey, maybe all the players that might have been interested on that are signed off to the L5R tournies. I mean, between the two of them thats a thousand players, so...
jaymz wrote: Well i will let Scott hang himself so to speak if that's what happens but I won't hang him myself just yet. I'll him breathe a little first.
I suppose it is a matter of what you are used to but I cannot see this environment being a flurry of activity.
I am sure any delays we see from here-in will be the Kevin approval and editing process.
I am sure many of us would like to be "honorable" and wait till he gets his footing rather than "kick him while he is down" which is the temptation.
It is a catch 22, Palladium is not an organization worth benefit of the doubt but you do not want to abuse a possible force for positive change in the organization.
Kevin sure knows how to fan the sliver of flame called hope for all it's worth.
I like it when I am wrong since I tend to be so negative, I fully expect not to see wave 2 ever.
But it is like watching a car crash seeing Kevin try everything to make money despite basically scamming it out of us through RRT.
Yeah, I am afraid Scott is guilty by association and hopefully is a "big boy" and would be foolish to not have done his homework and know what he was getting into.
I want to see if he is part of the PB crowd that believes "Why do something now that you can do later?".
Worst part of all this is the circular logic or "feedback" this gives Kevin:
RRT is a failure, therefore why chase good money after bad?
Keep the money, delay RRT forever = "win".
BTW he can think "Phew! Thank goodness for Kickstarter, I would have hated to lose my money on this stinker!".
I don't know what to thik anymore. Getting PB to change its spots isn't likely as long as Kevin remains at the helm.
But they could at least get productive again like they were back in the 90's with the right push. But, at best that would be for Rifts product.
RRT on the other hand, is dead. We'll never see wave 2, the effort to ressurect it has gone too far out of their ability to reign it back in - they have surely squandered the funds they need to finish b now, and/or tied it up in dead Wave 1 stock.
So I think Scott may help them turn around their Rifts IP, but they're all deluded if they think RRT will ever be anything more than a millstone about their neck.
I know the Rifts Sooperfans are sick of hearing about Robotech at every turn but I don't think the Palladium faithful are quite as large with open hearts and wallets anymore. How can Scooter move forward with anything when there's a 1.44 million dollar albatross around the neck of the company regardless of which particular IP they're trying to sling? Palladium has been kind of a joke since since the Treacheris of Crisery and the Robotech shenanigans have done them zero favors. Meet the new boss, he's actually the old boss to twist a lyric. If Kevayneott thinks a new voice preaching the same tired lies will reinvigorate his worn out welcome of the gaming community, he's in for a shock. All the good will comments on the kickstarter welcoming Scott as a voice of sanity are not equal to dollars getting paid into Palladium for new product.
Scott's soothing platitudes will not equate to a successful gRifts kickstarter. All it does is buy Kevin more time to dither about how he's going to break the news that someone other than him completely screwed up the Robotech kickstarter. Maybe Kevster should make the Tony Reidy/Definance route and blame the Chinese for all his woes.
