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You guys need to stop. This is neither the thread nor the forum for this conversation.

asimo77 wrote:

Oh yeah Necrons...As long as the major 4 C'tan are still around I'll be happy. Honestly ever since reading about the War in Heaven I always thought it would be cool if there were many C'tan still left around.

Technically, there's still a ton out there. C'tan were born when the Big Bang occurred and I think I understand correctly that they're also born whenever there's a nova or supernova. Since 40k only occurs in our galaxy and not the universe (which would be pretty neat since that would allow people to create their own races letting our imaginations run wild), there are probably a whole ton of C'tan in all the other galaxies, still munching away happily at stars, oblivious to conflict around them.

What I'm hoping for with the whole 'c'tan' thing is that the enslaved 'shards' will be the remains of old C'tan - cast down in the War in Heaven sort of thing - while the current Big 4 (Nightbringer/Deciever/etc) will still be out, about, and apocalypse-only monsters, as creatures of their power level should be.

But that's just my opinion. ^^

Sounds good to me.

I don't really like the idea of mundane Necrons offing the God of Death and then deploying him as a necro-dreadnaught

I think the idea of the C'tan being overthrown sounds fairly reasonable actually; it would help define the Necrons as an empire (like every other 40K race) rather than just a load of robots who follow their masters every order; it would actually give them some motivation for their actions as it were.
This could also explain the Lords having their own personality and whatnot, as they're more than just the pawns of the gods.

I think this over-throwing the gods thing will help develop Necrons as a personality and race of their own. Whether Necron players want this or not (I'd say it's largely 50/50) is debatable...

The question I see though is if Necrons overthrow the C'tan then what will be their reason for existence?

Would they turn into emo robots who hate all life because the prospect of living has been taken away from them?

Would they try to rebuild their old empire? or just wither away since they no longer have a reason to exist?

Would they become bat gak crazy trying to find a way to reverse the Necronomification (yeah, just made that up) or become more desperate like the flayed ones who try to be more lifelike by covering themselves in the skin of being they kill?

So many questions, so few answers. The C'tans existence revolves around a cycle of devouring, pretty much exactly the same thing as the Reapers from Mass Effect except the C'tan loves to eat souls or some such.

With the C'tan conquered and enslaved that leaves much to be desired. It's like having someone who've been in prison from the age of 10 and released at the age of 40. Basically thrown out and told he's free to do whatever a free person does. Statistically he should be back in prison within a few months but that's not really an option for the Necrons.

So the question is, what's the new thing that drives the Necrons on?

Then again if the Necrons conquered the universe the chaos gods would die because a few Necron lords with insane thoughts would surely not be enough to sustain them.

I guess the same could be said if Tau were to win.

MadCowCrazy wrote:The question I see though is if Necrons overthrow the C'tan then what will be their reason for existence?

Would they turn into emo robots who hate all life because the prospect of living has been taken away from them?

Would they try to rebuild their old empire? or just wither away since they no longer have a reason to exist?

Would they become bat gak crazy trying to find a way to reverse the Necronomification (yeah, just made that up) or become more desperate like the flayed ones who try to be more lifelike by covering themselves in the skin of being they kill?

So many questions, so few answers. The C'tans existence revolves around a cycle of devouring, pretty much exactly the same thing as the Reapers from Mass Effect except the C'tan loves to eat souls or some such.

With the C'tan conquered and enslaved that leaves much to be desired. It's like having someone who've been in prison from the age of 10 and released at the age of 40. Basically thrown out and told he's free to do whatever a free person does. Statistically he should be back in prison within a few months but that's not really an option for the Necrons.

So the question is, what's the new thing that drives the Necrons on?

Then again if the Necrons conquered the universe the chaos gods would die because a few Necron lords with insane thoughts would surely not be enough to sustain them.

I guess the same could be said if Tau were to win.

I do like the bat gak crazy option, lol, but I'd rather stick with them still serving the 4 key C'tan (speaking of which, I WANT MY OUTSIDER GW AND MATT WARD!!!!!!). It seems pretty appropriate that way, anyways, necrons already did go pretty emo back when they were necrontyr after the first war with the Old Ones who whipped them.

And you mean galaxy not universe, 40k really only takes up our galaxy with nids coming in from another galaxy (I would find it pretty damn neat if it were universe wide since then that with leave us with the option of nigh infinite species), not the universe.

OK seriously, can we be adults and leave this "rape" garbage somewhere else... please?

lowmanjason wrote:OK seriously, can we be adults and leave this "rape" garbage somewhere else... please?

read first post on this page. seriously, just drop it and it will die.

whoops sorry it looks like we already moved on... good

Ascalam wrote:I don't really like the idea of mundane Necrons offing the God of Death and then deploying him as a necro-dreadnaught

This.

sounds like mechanised armies will have a huge problem with ctan very soon.

I do hope the "big four" are still around in some capacity. And I can't really imagine that The Deceiver would ever really be as defeated as he would let others think.

But if they are, in fact, no longer in charge at all, it makes me wonder about the whole harvest thing that has been in so much of the fluff and stories. Cultivating humans as cattle and such only really works if there is something to feed.

Well you can explain some/most of the harvesting as simply as saying that they need slaves to rebuild their empire.

I'll be happy to see C'tan as a lesser part of the story as there was not as much as I would have liked on necrons in the current codex.

Just Dave wrote:I think the idea of the C'tan being overthrown sounds fairly reasonable actually; it would help define the Necrons as an empire (like every other 40K race) rather than just a load of robots who follow their masters every order; it would actually give them some motivation for their actions as it were.
This could also explain the Lords having their own personality and whatnot, as they're more than just the pawns of the gods.

I think this over-throwing the gods thing will help develop Necrons as a personality and race of their own. Whether Necron players want this or not (I'd say it's largely 50/50) is debatable...

I'm with you on this one, I want to see Codex; Necrons, not Codex; C'Tan.

I'm imagining something along the lines of during the great war, the Necrons used necrodermis type technology, to capture parts of the dying C'tan essence which they can use for battle when the threat level is high. The big four C'tan should be apocalypse only, I'd imagine their necrodermis being monolith sized

Either way, I'm keen to see the Necrontyr themselves advance as a independant race as opposed to mindless slaved automatons. Bring them some personality, some hardships as to why they should strive to continue, maybe they are still pissed at all the old ones races and jealous of their flesh?

Yakface confirm that guys last set of rumours, so I have no reason to see why he would be wrong now. I'd imagine C'tan would be a wave 2 model release with a bunch of options on heads and arms and addons so you can build your own.

August cannot come soon enough

I like the idea of the C'tan being open to personalization just because it enhances the replay factor. I may even get the hang of magnetizing now.

Sectiplave wrote:

Just Dave wrote:I think the idea of the C'tan being overthrown sounds fairly reasonable actually; it would help define the Necrons as an empire (like every other 40K race) rather than just a load of robots who follow their masters every order; it would actually give them some motivation for their actions as it were.
This could also explain the Lords having their own personality and whatnot, as they're more than just the pawns of the gods.

I think this over-throwing the gods thing will help develop Necrons as a personality and race of their own. Whether Necron players want this or not (I'd say it's largely 50/50) is debatable...

I'm with you on this one, I want to see Codex; Necrons, not Codex; C'Tan.

I'm imagining something along the lines of during the great war, the Necrons used necrodermis type technology, to capture parts of the dying C'tan essence which they can use for battle when the threat level is high. The big four C'tan should be apocalypse only, I'd imagine their necrodermis being monolith sized

Either way, I'm keen to see the Necrontyr themselves advance as a independant race as opposed to mindless slaved automatons. Bring them some personality, some hardships as to why they should strive to continue, maybe they are still pissed at all the old ones races and jealous of their flesh?

Yakface confirm that guys last set of rumours, so I have no reason to see why he would be wrong now. I'd imagine C'tan would be a wave 2 model release with a bunch of options on heads and arms and addons so you can build your own.

August cannot come soon enough

I don't see why we need to gimp the C'tan in order to keep them. How about the Necrons still get their independence but the c'tan are just worshiped as the deities they are. Maybe the C'tan we're fielding are just channeled fragments of their total cosmic energy (think divine magic in Dnd) and they are focused into the necrodermis of a priest class Necron, possessing him for a brief period.

The C'tan can still be in it but they are aloof. Like they never give direct orders and are really hard to interpret. This would give Necrons guidance but wouldn't enslave them to their will.

I just hope the C'tan are a multi-part plastic kit and not Failcast. . .

Just Dave wrote:I think the idea of the C'tan being overthrown sounds fairly reasonable actually; it would help define the Necrons as an empire (like every other 40K race) rather than just a load of robots who follow their masters every order; it would actually give them some motivation for their actions as it were.
This could also explain the Lords having their own personality and whatnot, as they're more than just the pawns of the gods.

I think this over-throwing the gods thing will help develop Necrons as a personality and race of their own. Whether Necron players want this or not (I'd say it's largely 50/50) is debatable...

Yh I like the sound of it too actually It would be good fluff wise if the necrons were all about harvesting all life, but instead of doing it for the star gods, maybe life energy is what all their tech. works on? ie. My gauss flayer feeds on the dead dreams of children It is Matt Ward after all...

asimo77 wrote:But what about us Slaanesh and Deldar players? Surely we can get all rape-y on our enemies. Would seem rather prudish and contradictory if the DE and Slaaneshi armies didn't engage in this sort of behaviour.

I didn't want to wade in here but as people won't stop casually referring to Rape:

I'm very good friends with some-one who has been raped, and having seen the long term effects and how the casual and flippant references to Rape in popular culture effects them I get rather irritated and disturbed when it is referred to in this way.

An important aspect to remember is that Rape often leads to PTSD which effects the way the the victims brain works, they fail to be able to rationalise the events - not only does the mention of the word sometimes cause flashbacks, but the casual and "humourous" way that people refer to it belittles what they have been through; this makes them believe that they are somehow weak and pathetic for being so effected by it and can even result in feelings that they deserved it - obvious this can spiral into full blown suicidal tendancies if their mood was already low.

Referring to Rape in a mater-of-fact way when talking about Vikings etc (raping and pillaging) is acceptable, but twisting it into a casual remark about how your toy soldiers just won a dice contest is certainly not - think about the context that you use your words.

At least the void bringer couldn't have been overthrown? first they wanted to free him, and that was legendary as they nearly just flew in on Mars without much harm. (they cannot deny that fluff?) and for the moment he is still locked up :p
Maybe some overthwon lesser c'tan that would be niccee but nightbringer noooh he's too nice to be overthrown xD I liek the idea but it shoudl be reasonable.

Speaking of the Void Dragon, what if the reason Ward was brought on is to talk about Adeptus Mechanicus? What if we are getting an actual army for them? I mean, if I was Matt Ward and I needed to use a xeno race to help push out an Adeptus Mechanicus army, why not Necrons? I mean, the Void Dragon already helps the Emperor get more technologies.

FalkorsRaiders wrote:Speaking of the Void Dragon, what if the reason Ward was brought on is to talk about Adeptus Mechanicus? What if we are getting an actual army for them? I mean, if I was Matt Ward and I needed to use a xeno race to help push out an Adeptus Mechanicus army, why not Necrons? I mean, the Void Dragon already helps the Emperor get more technologies.

"help" should be used in qoutes. Void Dragon cant be happy with where he is and why. This is way he's such a big taboo to talk about for admech; would shatter the imperium at its foundations to know the the Omassiah is a omnicidial god with the only wish to consume both them and their Empire.

Part of the reason I dont like what they're doing to the C'tan. This is good fluff. The whole of the Imperium of man is founded on the memories of a corpse and the dreams a creature that has been eating stars since the beginning of time. GRIM DARK AS HELL MOTHER fether!

I think one of the fundamental conceptual flaws of the current Necron codex is that it IS Codex: C'tan. I know what they were going for was a VC-style character-with-personality-leading-armies-without-personality thing, but the end result was a lot of blandness around the core of the army.

Regarding "overthrowing" C'tan, I wonder if this is the somewhat usual exaggerated rumor, i.e., the reality being that the new fluff indicates the Necrons showing more personal initiative and not being strictly servants of the C'tan.

Yes, help was meant for quotations.

I was always a person who rather play then learn about the fluff. Only recently, like last week, I started to read and learn about Necron fluff, even though I had been playing for about a year. Necron fluff is interesting, even though most of it is C'tan fluff. Necrons are a bunch who sacrificed themselves to be immortal slaves (I know it's much more complex than that), and it's the C'tan who run the show. I understand that it would be great for the Necrons to develop as a race and throw off the shackles of the C'tan, but that isn't what the Necrons are about, at least not now. The Necrons are tools of the C'tan, and the C'tan just want to eat. I'm fine with this little, and others are as well. I know in a short few months this argument won't matter, since I have no sway on the final result, but I rather have new fluff written in and not a total rewrite. If anything, I'd develop the Necrons by having the Outsider return from another galaxy with all the new units/vehicles, saying that while being crazy, he found another race to "Necron-ize", forcibly would be nice, and returned to help the remaining C'tan.

I don't understand why some of you guys see the current book as Codex: C'tan? There's 2 C'tan in the army list and you can only take one. The codex is heavily dominated by the Necrons themselves in terms of rules and playabilty. The C'tan ARE the fluff, when they are the masters and the Necrons the slaves. It's meant to be that way.

I just want like in Fall of Damnos, Necron Lords to have personalities, but still serving their Gods. The Necrons revolve around the will of the C'tan. Not having the Necrons follow the C'tan, is like the Orcs betraying Sauron in the War of the Ring - it shouldn't happen, they should be eternally bound.

The mystery in the lore of the Necrons is what attracted me to the army, I love the mystery. If they simply erase all the current foundations then that is stupid, that is why it would be dumb to remove Pariahs entirely. Necrons are different, and they should stay different.

The books should concentrate on the Necrons and the higher-ups, but who really knows other than those who have a say in the final result. For all we know, the new codex could be all about the C'tan, or maybe even all about Adeptus Mechanicus. Heck, for all I know the new codex will have the Outsider returning, siding with the Orks, and handing them the new Tesla weapons instead of the Necrons. Maybe, just maybe, if we're lucky, the new codex will literally be a reprint of the 3rd edition Necron Codex with the only change being a points decrease.

tiekwando wrote:

Grim.Badger wrote:

Tyrs13 wrote:Wraiths:
There is no Strength 6 power weapon that should go at initiative 6.
Think of a what a Powerfist with initiative 6 would do ... its almost the same effect minus insta death. No army should have an I win button for any kind of combat.
You can have an advantage but it should a chance to save or cost a hell of a lot.

You mean other than the Swarmlord, which is also WS9 with 5 wounds? And the 'Nids have a couple more with similar strength and initiative whilst also being Monstrous Creatures - their downside is that they're one-offs rather than units, but I expect that the Wraiths will also have their downsides (personally I think they'll lose their invulnerable but gain some sort of permanent cover save, stay at 1 wound, have average (4) WS and toughness and obviously no guns). But like the Lictor, their closests equivalent, I doubt they'll be cheap.
Power weapons fit their fluff far too well for them not to get them IMO

who knows maybe they will get necroclaws-counts as warscythe for rules purposes

And Grey Knights can do too all you need to do is get off Hammerhand and Might of Titan with Halberds. Then you have Strength 6 and Initiative 6 and if you want to be a big dick add Quicksilver with falchions and you have Strength 6 and Initiative 10.

A reprint of the 3rd edition Necron codex with points decreases would be moronic. Right now, they have no weapons options, no ability to pop AV14, no meltas or lances, and the only gun they have that can reliably hurt heavy armor is a single shot, non-twin linked gun mounted on a jetbike platform. They are garbage in melee and far too vulnerable to sweeping advance, which a reprint would not fix at all, and the slots that certain units are in make no sense/preclude certain lists that should be possible. If you really think that they should just reprint the 3rd edition necron codex...well you're welcome to stick with that one when the new one comes out.

Hey, all I'm trying to say is that they should decrease the points of Monoliths and Destroyers down to 1 point a piece. That's fair, right? Besides, if enough gauss weapons glance, you could roll enough 3's and 4's to wreck vehicles and pile on enough wounds to kill the enemies...

I don't think they should just do a reprint. I guess sarcasm doesn't translate well into my posts, so sorry if I anger people. I've been playing close to a year now with my friends, who play Orks, Tau, Imperial Guard, Blood Angles, Witch Hunters, Dark Eldar, and one just started Grey Knights. I've come to realize that the Necrons need a revamp for playing purposes, but when a new codex comes out, so does new fluff. Sure, every other race has had changes, but right now we are talking about Necrons, and rumors are all over the place, from the Necrons overthrowing the C'tan to Necron transports. Having fought heavy assault armies, heavy shooting armies, and even armies that like to drop everywhere, I fully understand the Necrons need to change, but they need the fluff to justify the changes. I understand I might not like the change in fluff, but I'm still going to play Necrons regardless and hope that the fluff will be worthy of my favorite 40k army.