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Devil Dog wrote:Mainly because I love to have people whine about it. I subsist upon the tears of cry babies. I can think if nothing more enjoyable than to beat the hell out if a whiner. All the while asking....would you like some cheese with that whine?

Cool story bro

Dudes either need to engage in the #1 male activity or get laid.

Henners91 wrote:Dudes either need to engage in the #1 male activity or get laid.

Wait, I thought that was the #1 male activity...

For some of us, yes

He should have said #1 Solitary male activity

Watching MLP:FiM?

We shall fix this thread with Love and Tolerance!

Also, Derpy Grey Knight.

Henners91 wrote:Dudes either need to engage in the #1 male activity or get laid.

I imagined your avatar saying that, I lol'd

I hope you did so with Boreale's voice, sir.

Was kidding around. But seriously I should start a thread..why are there so many threads whinning about GK? Played the game as space marines long enough to have seen lots of harsh codex rules. I really don't think GK is too crazy considering other codex for 6th. For the price of a decked rhino DE can put out skimmers with better armament than a land raider. BA can have flying librarian drednaughts. So what's the big deal? I'm sure they'll balance armies decently, never perfectly, bit decently. And what good is ANOTHER whine post about GK going to serve? People play GK because they are a ass kicking army. Simple.

Listen, I think people just need to stop whining and get on with things. Don't like it don't play.

Well, this wasn't originally a Whine post, it was just a simple question post. But, as with many threads, it unraveled and degraded.

I realise that. But I am sick of people whining. It is a valid codex and a well written one, in my not-so-humble opinion.

If you don't go to competition and prefer Derp Knights in friendly games then hats off to you, but if you go to competition theb you WILL fight GK so the best thing to do is stop complaining and start planning your enevitable encounters. What unit will deal with what. Who will claim objectives. Possible enemy lists. Which lists will give the most hassel.

Deadshot...thank you

Deadshot wrote:I realise that. But I am sick of people whining. It is a valid codex and a well written one, in my not-so-humble opinion.

If you don't go to competition and prefer Derp Knights in friendly games then hats off to you, but if you go to competition theb you WILL fight GK so the best thing to do is stop complaining and start planning your enevitable encounters. What unit will deal with what. Who will claim objectives. Possible enemy lists. Which lists will give the most hassel.

Well, my main gripe is "how do I compete against an army when I can't even deploy a single model onto the freaking table?!!"
Okay, so the only local store that has open game nights is full of d-bags, but still, I should at least be able to plan a tactic beyond ''don't lose the roll-off for 1st turn"...

In my not-so-humble-opinion, GK's a well written internally balanced codex. It's external balance however is rather suspect.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Deadshot wrote:I realise that. But I am sick of people whining. It is a valid codex and a well written one, in my not-so-humble opinion.

If you don't go to competition and prefer Derp Knights in friendly games then hats off to you, but if you go to competition theb you WILL fight GK so the best thing to do is stop complaining and start planning your enevitable encounters. What unit will deal with what. Who will claim objectives. Possible enemy lists. Which lists will give the most hassel.

Well, my main gripe is "how do I compete against an army when I can't even deploy a single model onto the freaking table?!!"
Okay, so the only local store that has open game nights is full of d-bags, but still, I should at least be able to plan a tactic beyond ''don't lose the roll-off for 1st turn"...

In my not-so-humble-opinion, GK's a well written internally balanced codex. It's external balance however is rather suspect.

The thing is, every Codex becomes OP if it gets to tailor against you. Shuntquake lists are pretty much worthless against anything other than Daemons, so it isn't really OP, it's just stupid.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Deadshot wrote:I realise that. But I am sick of people whining. It is a valid codex and a well written one, in my not-so-humble opinion.

If you don't go to competition and prefer Derp Knights in friendly games then hats off to you, but if you go to competition theb you WILL fight GK so the best thing to do is stop complaining and start planning your enevitable encounters. What unit will deal with what. Who will claim objectives. Possible enemy lists. Which lists will give the most hassel.

Well, my main gripe is "how do I compete against an army when I can't even deploy a single model onto the freaking table?!!"
Okay, so the only local store that has open game nights is full of d-bags, but still, I should at least be able to plan a tactic beyond ''don't lose the roll-off for 1st turn"...

In my not-so-humble-opinion, GK's a well written internally balanced codex. It's external balance however is rather suspect.

The thing is, every Codex becomes OP if it gets to tailor against you. Shuntquake lists are pretty much worthless against anything other than Daemons, so it isn't really OP, it's just stupid.

It's not even fully tailored lists though - just 10 interceptors combat squaded + 20 strikes. Hardly a fully tailored anti-deamon list that also screws over DoA's lists and any kind of chaos marine termicide or deep striking oblit tactics.
Don't see dark ex anymore outside of dreadknights, people stopped taking truesilver armour and no one uses the likes of Stern who's murder on daemons.

Just 6'x4' tables with 30 models using the max 2" rules to auto-win against specific lists when they see them.

Devil Dog wrote:Mainly because I love to have people whine about it. I subsist upon the tears of cry babies. I can think if nothing more enjoyable than to beat the hell out if a whiner. All the while asking....would you like some cheese with that whine?

Personally, I think people are in the right to whine about this codex. It's proven to be very powerful, and and Daemons in partiular got screwed over (which is bad game design, anyway you slice it). But the sad truth is that Deadshot is right. All we can do is keep playing, and pray when your codex comes out, that you can let loose that frustration like the fist of an angry god

I agree that Daemons, all Daemon based army liKE Oblits, DP summoned.or possessed CSM, Mandrake DE, Avatars and others besides, are more pressed than most.



But there way to avoid screwing over Daemons.

We are super awesome Emperor birthed Daemon hunting Super Space Marines who can't hurt Daemons.

That wouldn't be too good.

Ascalam wrote:
I like to play underpowered or fragile armies to give myself a bit of a challenge.

I used to run oldcrons and Nids.

I still run BT, DE (not weak, but fragile as hell), Orks and Daemons.

Brother, this is grave news. Why have you allied yourself with xenos and heretics

As to the topic, I feel that GK appeal to players for several reasons:

1. New codex bandwagon

2. Less expensive monetarily

3. Heard they are competitive

4. Appeal of the fluff of them being crazy awesome

5. If you mean the GK book and not just armies with Grey Knights, since the new Sisters WD dex has no inquisition IIRC, people who want to play Inquisition decide to pick up the GK dex

Luke_Prowler wrote:Personally, I think people are in the right to whine about this codex. It's proven to be very powerful, and and Daemons in partiular got screwed over (which is bad game design, anyway you slice it). But the sad truth is that Deadshot is right. All we can do is keep playing, and pray when your codex comes out, that you can let loose that frustration like the fist of an angry god

Well, GW will listen to community-wide cries of OP silliness. Look at what happened with Fantasy - DoC led to the entire communty getting up in arms over how redonkulous that stupid book was, and GW has listened. They accepted that went way too far with that book, admited at various games days it was a mistake and promised us that they'd eventually balance things out.
And they have actually - 8th ed overall is a much better game than 7th, and best of all the new books have shown pretty much no 'power creep' at all! The only real complaints being how the army specific magic items were a farce in O&G's and have routinely been getting better with each new book. (TK's have 4-5 decent item, Ogres about the same, while they finally got it right with VC's and every item is usefull!)

Maybe if GW hears enough complaining from the masses about GK's being too OTT and being unfair/not fun to play against, it'll force their hand again and eventually we'll get a decent set of balanced books that don't cave into needless power-creep. (hey, a girl can hope, right?! )

While its true that Fantasy Daemons got nerfed from 8th edition, the rulebook was released in 2010. The daemon codex was released in 2008. That was at least a year of one army dominating everyone else. GW doesn't seemed to willing ti use their Errata to balance a codex, like video game companies do with patches, instead letting their fanbase suffer until they print another codex that suppose to be on the same level as them, but that only pisses the people who don't get an update yet even more.

blaktoof wrote:I never stated that they never ever for any reason reply xx. That you made up in your head.

You said it was unfluffy. As in, doesnt happen when the GK deploy. That is what fluff "means", surely? The in fiction representation of the army? Well your claim is they never (because it is unfluffy) deploy large numbers of noughts.

You may not realise youre saying something, but you are....

blaktoof wrote:I stated the gk backstory does not include a large amount of dreadnaughts, it doesn't. Sorry I didn't make it up.

Never said you did. We have repeatedly pointed out your continuing fallacy in this area, but apparently in vain.

blaktoof wrote:I'm sort you disagree but there is literally 23 years of gw hgw backstory to not support you. :(

So, you've found back story that ASSERTS your viewpoint, as opposed to being neutral? Yet? Anything? No? Then your hypothesis is wrong.

DarkHound quote cutting because theyre really clever! wrote: stuff

Yeah, dont quote crop. You failed to read the whole of a sentence and flew off on one. SLIGHTLY different. here

nosferatu1001 wrote:

DarkHound quote cutting because theyre really clever! wrote: stuff

Yeah, dont quote crop. You failed to read the whole of a sentence and flew off on one. SLIGHTLY different. here

The quote I responded to implied that spamming Dreadnoughts was against known cannon. Walrus' response was that cannon is subjective, and even he will admit he was cheeky about it. Your response to that was a personal attack on the Blaktoof. Since then you've done very little except attack other posters while shouting "you can't prove they don't!"

I'd personally leave fluff out of list construction.

The fluff for the crimson fists was that they took huge amounts of damage and there's just a handful left but hey, you can still field everything just fine and always claim that your army occurred before the big missle accident.

As long as the FOC allows for it and it's legal, then anyone can just generate anything to force it to make sense. Including the 11 dreadnaught BA list...

Can always claim that at one point very very early in the GK time line before they developed fear of being in dreadnaughts that they had more of them around. Can claim that your particular GK detachment was actually from just 1k years instead of 10k years after the horus heracy. The chapter didn't yet develop a fear of being made dreads as most of the recruits were still from the legions and respected the dreads. There you go. Problem solved.

Heck, I still see some very nice battle reports where people are using the SM codex to field a legal list of Death guard before they went traitor. I find that just fine and have no problems with them doing that. NM that they are fighting the lamenters which was a cursed founding 23k yrs later, just say it was a time warp and a ship went backwards in time or some such thing. happens similarly)

I think Daemon players really can't specifically complain about GKs too much.

Having your entire army deep strike in is just horrible against most opponents, a tailored GK list really just kicks you while your down.

Daemons just need a new codex thats all.

Spoof now I'm a troll. I think seeing 3 posts against GK in two weeks is kinda trolling. Getting everything from gambling crap, to all are just playing for the fluff. I'm sorry, but iits been said already. Just use the same post. Why the different ones? As well as the fact that people loose with GK. If its that op why have I seen three reports where necrons have handed them losses not to mention the reports where GK win but by the hair of their chinny chin chin.

It would be nice to not see every thread turn into ba, sw or gk hate threads for sure.

Brother SRM wrote:There's something called "bandwagoning" and it happens whenever a new codex comes out. People see the new hotness and jump on it. Also, GK is a very cheap army to build, since it's smaller and more elite than SM. On top of all this, GK are very powerful and have a lot of lists that do very well in tournaments, so there's this perceived power level with them that attracts a lot of people too. On top of all that, they generally have very cool models.

Thats a BIG part of it. Also the Dreadknight is bad ass looking alone, and people had alot of GK from the DH days.