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Oh man, new secondary objectives and missions got leaked too. My initial impression was with pure Knights in mind, and while they can't participate in most objectives, they can easily max several (Attrition, Engage on All Fronts, Bring It Down). More 'normal' armies have more options but a harder time achieving max points, so I'm still processing it for AdMech, allied with Knights or otherwise.

I don't think there are obvious, maximum-scoring picks in vacuum, which probably means they're well designed. Obviously you take a Purge the Enemy that suits your opponent's list.

I think While We Stand We Fight is an interesting pick, since we can repair our expensive units. Cawl will usually survive if you make it a priority. Hugely buffed Breacher or Destroyer squads suddenly become an objective-in-themselves, and it seems like the Aggrippina respawn Stratagem will let them get full value. Otherwise, I could see max-size Kastelan Robots being relatively hard to remove.

Abhor the Witch is a good pocket pick since we don't have Psychers of our own.

I'm very seriously considering taking Servitors to complete Shadow Operations secondaries. Especially Raise The Banners High and Investigate Sites, which just prevents the unit from doing any fighting and can't be interrupted by your opponent.

Leaked rules:
https://imgur.com/a/J4Bygoq?fbclid=IwAR23iaBseSxg8iOblSmZLpZfZyQm4mlRVFf9RFibUGFbMEoFM8yrwzxU_lc

New rules (I think):

-You gain 1 CP per turn

-You can move over 1" or less terrain as if it were not there

-Cannot keep one die when rerolling charges.

-Transports got nerfed; you have to disembark wholly within 3" unless you use the generic stratagem, which changes it to 6" and makes disembarking units immune to explode, but doubles the chance that it is slain. Good thing we have Evacuation Sequence, which prevents a disembarking unit from being slain. No charging or heroic intervention after disembarking as well.

I think you missed a bit, the rules in this leak state that a unit that has disembarked can act normally. The specifically note move, shoot, charge, and only state that if you choose not to move, you still count as moving.


As an additional thought, or rather a correction to a brainfart I had, I was really worried about the Supreme Command detachment. It costs 0Cp for a Primarch, Demon Primarch, or Supreme Commander, and then gives you CP equal to your largest detachment. It seemed like a no brainer, you get more CP if you take one of these guys... but then again, they universally require you make them warlord, which means your warlord isnt in your biggest detachment, so that detachment still costs CP instead of balancing out as per the rules of needing a warlord in the detachment to equal 0CP, so this more or less negates that CP loss.

Still makes taking one of those characters useful, but it's not like just throwing free CP around for anyone putting Mortarion on the table.

 DarkHound wrote:

I think While We Stand We Fight is an interesting pick, since we can repair our expensive units. Cawl will usually survive if you make it a priority. Hugely buffed Breacher or Destroyer squads suddenly become an objective-in-themselves, and it seems like the Aggrippina respawn Stratagem will let them get full value. Otherwise, I could see max-size Kastelan Robots being relatively hard to remove.

While We Stand We Fight has a bizarre wording choice of "three most expensive models", not "units", so any multi-model unit is unlikely to include eligible nominations vs. any vehicles you might have included.

The only transport no disembark and charge or heroic intervention is for when the transport was destroyed that turn.
Which is a current rule added in the last big faq. If overwatch destroys the transport, the occupants cant charge.

Madjob wrote:

 DarkHound wrote:
I think While We Stand We Fight is an interesting pick, since we can repair our expensive units. Cawl will usually survive if you make it a priority. Hugely buffed Breacher or Destroyer squads suddenly become an objective-in-themselves, and it seems like the Aggrippina respawn Stratagem will let them get full value. Otherwise, I could see max-size Kastelan Robots being relatively hard to remove.

While We Stand We Fight has a bizarre wording choice of "three most expensive models", not "units", so any multi-model unit is unlikely to include eligible nominations vs. any vehicles you might have included.

Oh, you're absolutely right. I just assumed it was units without thinking. Yeah, in that case the rule almost always affects only Cawl and our heavy support or aircraft (or any Knights). That seems like paying the opponent to do what they already planned to: silence our big guns. I guess the secondary is for expensive characters, since they can be hidden aren't otherwise a priority to dig out and kill. Anyway, not one that we'll use unless we're super confident they don't have enough anti-tank.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
The only transport no disembark and charge or heroic intervention is for when the transport was destroyed that turn.
Which is a current rule added in the last big faq. If overwatch destroys the transport, the occupants cant charge.

 Gremore wrote:
I think you missed a bit, the rules in this leak state that a unit that has disembarked can act normally. The specifically note move, shoot, charge, and only state that if you choose not to move, you still count as moving.

Right, that was my being unclear in my language. After a transport is destroyed.

But it's pretty cool how our Boats can emergency disembark wholly within 6". It's quite the leg up if we're going to play mechanized.

Yeah I agree. Not knowing how points change, the Duneriders are cheap as chips for what they do and with the known vehicle changes pack a little extra punch, with no worry of our boys dying inside if it blows up.

I was reading Tactica Obliqua and what are your guys opinion on this? It says "Use this Stratagem in your opponent’s Charge phase when a SERBERYS RAIDERS unit from your army is chosen as the target of a charge for the first time that turn. Instead of firing Overwatch, that unit can move or Fall Back as if it were your Movement phase (it cannot Advance as part of this move)."

Would the Raiders now need to spend a CP on Fire Overwatch to then be able to trigger Tactica Obliqua? Or not? As you can only trigger Overwatch with the strat so I dunno how to interpret this for the Raiders stratagem.

I would wait for the FAQ instead of worring about how things work that will probably be reworded

The activation requirement is "your opponent's charge phase when the Raiders are targets of a charge". The "Instead of firing Overwatch" clause just prohibits them from firing Overwatch. Now, in 9th, that means you won't be able to pay 1CP to Overwatch and also use Tactica Obliqua.

Anyone seen the comparison points uplift for marines?
Quoted form the rumours thread:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Essentially looks like weapons wise multi-shot but not blast weapons are seeing an uplift as well as any indirect weapons.

I'm a little ? on the 40% increase to servitors :|

The servitor increase is so big because their points were so small to begin with a 40% increase amounts to 8Pts per unit

U02dah4 wrote:
The servitor increase is so big because their points were so small to begin with a 40% increase amounts to 8Pts per unit

Yes yes, I'm aware how percentages work The fact that they were increased at all is weird enough. But by two points? They don't gain anything from the move to 9th they're no better than before. I mean its somewhat irrelevant because there's only one build that is using them in the entire game, but by this token, unless they deem us underpowered we're likely to see similar roled units increase by a similar amount. 9 point rangers, 40 point breachers, 150~ point disintigrators with belleros. I really need them to release the points soon, fed up of waiting to buy stuff. I mean I know stuff is always going to change but when it's JUST about to change I dont want to buy 4 boxes of Serbyrus if I can only field half of them in a list.

Our Servitors might get different point values. I read that they got upped because the heavy weapons they could carry in the Astartes codex got new points too, might explain it.

Yeah I can't wait for the points, I really hope there'll be a good leak before the 11th to prepare list building.

I know its still early but, got 5 boxes of kataphrons.
any guide to how to start building them?

5 boxes is a bit weird.
6 boxes imo is the sweet spot because then you can build 3x3 Breachers and Destroyers.
Then you can use the leftover bits from the other box (so if you build destroyers, you have breacher weapon bits left) to use the that weapon mount bits for easy magnetizing for the Grav/Plasma or Torsion/Arc Rifle as well as the lil' side arms.

But that's just me because I wanted the extra armour on the Breachers.

I think the weapons are enough to tell the difference between Breacher and Destroyer. I mean virtually every primaris looks the same only the heads and wargear actually change what they are.

I want to run 3x4 Breachers because they actually do something unlike rangers without snipers. ideally 3x4 Raiders/Sulphurhounds and 10 Pteraxii in some configuration as well but that's a lot of new models to not know the points for. I guess I'm just being impatient, it's not that long to wait really. Only a week or so lol

I'm hesitant to buy anything until I see how the points shake out with our units. I hope Destroyers come down in points quite a bit otherwise Breachers will still beat them at their own game.

I still like rangers for anti-infantry and cheap troops, but 9th might make them obsolete except for spamming their special weapons.

I was thinking of starting with 3x5 breachers for now (because the 6+ squad would get weird ?)

Do you guys think we will ever see 6+ breacher/ destroyer or even Kastelans ?

The other troops option seems extremely restricted since there is no benefit outside min 5 squad of rangers/vanguard ~ 30 troops for 6 slots

30coins wrote:
I was thinking of starting with 3x5 breachers for now (because the 6+ squad would get weird ?)

Do you guys think we will ever see 6+ breacher/ destroyer or even Kastelans ?

The other troops option seems extremely restricted since there is no benefit outside min 5 squad of rangers/vanguard ~ 30 troops for 6 slots

With the new Look Out, Sir! Rule there may be some value in having more than 5 Skitarii in a screening unit. The unit cohesion rules seem to make greater than 5 man Kataphrons a no go as far as I’m concerned. The 60mm bases make 2 inch cohesion problematic.

By the way, auras are pretty much unchanged:

Abilities
Many units have one or more special abilities; these will be described here

Aura Abilities
Some abilities affect models or units in a given range – these are aura abilities. A model with an aura ability is always within range of its effect. The effects of multiple, identically named aura abilities are not cumulative (i.e. if a unit is within range of two models with the same aura ability, that aura ability only applies to the unit once).

So yeah, any rule that belongs to a unit and affects models or units in a given range is an aura ability.

This includes Saviour Protocols, TFC activation, Orders, etc. It probably does not include stratagems or psychic powers because those are not rules specific to the unit's data sheet.

 Suzuteo wrote:
By the way, auras are pretty much unchanged:

Abilities
Many units have one or more special abilities; these will be described here

Aura Abilities
Some abilities affect models or units in a given range – these are aura abilities. A model with an aura ability is always within range of its effect. The effects of multiple, identically named aura abilities are not cumulative (i.e. if a unit is within range of two models with the same aura ability, that aura ability only applies to the unit once).

So yeah, any rule that belongs to a unit and affects models or units in a given range is an aura ability.

This includes Saviour Protocols, TFC activation, Orders, etc. It probably does not include stratagems or psychic powers because those are not rules specific to the unit's data sheet.

Maybe.

The New datasheets have specific (Aura) tag on them for auras, and the Necron Overlord has both a tagged ability (Relentless March), and an untagged ability that would normally qualify as an aura (My Will Be Done).

Three other things I have realized:
1) Engagement range is a cylinder, not a circle. It is 5" tall and 1" radius around the base.
2) After charging units fight, the NON-ACTIVE player fights first. This is a huge boost to counter-chargers such as Fulgurites.
3) The new "as if" rule has no exception for Overwatch, so if your rerolls work outside of the Shooting phase (sad Cawl), then you can reroll them like any shooting attack.
4) Models eligible to fight are within a half-inch of a model within a half-inch of the enemy. So 25mm and 32mm units can only stack 2 ranks deep.

All in all, it makes Fulgurites very tempting.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Maybe.

The New datasheets have specific (Aura) tag on them for auras, and the Necron Overlord has both a tagged ability (Relentless March), and an untagged ability that would normally qualify as an aura (My Will Be Done).

This would be helpful, but it will be some time before we get to the point where we can say something is an aura if it is keyworded as such.

Unless they make an exhaustive list. Lol.

Going to address the response to me first: We will have to wait and see with the rounds of FAQs. If Auras are given Tags as errata we will have some more certainty, if not..

3: New "as if" rules has no bearing on new "overwatch"; overwatch is not as if anything, just "resolved like a normal shooting attack" so no exceptions for overwatch are needed.

4: This change gets really Goofy with some situations(and engagement range being larger). Take a situation with 3 models, one is within 1/2", the next to the right is within 3/4", and the third is within 1 1/16" of the enemy and within 1/16" of the second; the first two are within engagement range and so can fight but the third is slightly just outside and nearly touching the second but cannot fight. if you could get a fourth on the far right to within 1/2" of both the enemy and model that cannot fight, then he could fight.
It is just really strange to have the closest model required to be well within engagement range.

SM Plasma inceptors got 15 % cheaper in 9th and are now only 2 points more expensive than our Destroyers with:
Better armor, hit better, 2d3 instead of 1d6 plasma, more attacks with a chance for MW on a charge, deepstrike, more movement and fly.

So id assume ours should become cheaper too.

 0XFallen wrote:
SM Plasma inceptors got 15 % cheaper in 9th and are now only 2 points more expensive than our Destroyers with:
Better armor, hit better, 2d3 instead of 1d6 plasma, more attacks with a chance for MW on a charge, deepstrike, more movement and fly.

So id assume ours should become cheaper too.

Using that logic, Space Marine Eradicators have the same T5 3w 3+ save stat line as our Kataphron Breachers with torsion cannons, and have the same 24” range, 1 shot, Str8 Dd6 profile but also get the melta damage rule, shoot twice, and a BS3 instead of our BS4 and currently cost the same 40 points per model, so I’d like to assume they should become cheaper as well.

Unfortunately, I’m guessing instead that GW will just grossly favor Space Marines, based on past experience. I like your optimism though!

Yeah I don't expect any other faction to be balanced with Marines to be honest

 Aaranis wrote:
Yeah I don't expect any other faction to be balanced with Marines to be honest

I think most shouldnt be balanced like them, they are clearly op with really good stats on even small and spammed weaponry that the only way to have something stronger is to add attacks, which they clearly do as they have plenty like the bikes having 6-7 attacks. Everyong compares their army to the posterboys, I wonder if we ignore them and compare to the other factions only, then maybe it will seem more balanced.

I currently only have the old start collecting box - my plan was to get two of the new ones and use the 3 together as the basis of a small Ad Mech army. However I've found somewhere that still has one of the old ones on sale.

I know everything is a bit up in the air with 9th on the horizon, but in general would I be better off with 2 Dunecrawlers and 1 Disintegrator/Dunestrider, or the other way round? I feel having two of the tanks gives a bit more flexibility?

edit: just realised i also want some Kastelan Robots, so 2 Dune Crawlers would then mean I couldn't fit a Disintegrator into a battalion

0XFallen wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Yeah I don't expect any other faction to be balanced with Marines to be honest

I think most shouldnt be balanced like them, they are clearly op with really good stats on even small and spammed weaponry that the only way to have something stronger is to add attacks, which they clearly do as they have plenty like the bikes having 6-7 attacks. Everyong compares their army to the posterboys, I wonder if we ignore them and compare to the other factions only, then maybe it will seem more balanced.

Well when Aeldari players compare their Swooping Hawks to our Pteraxii they must feel left out too

But otherwise you're right, Marines don't play on the same level in 8th or 9th too I'd wager. I'll play one or two games against them and see how it goes before I decide not to play against them for sake of having fun in my games.

Shooter wrote:I currently only have the old start collecting box - my plan was to get two of the new ones and use the 3 together as the basis of a small Ad Mech army. However I've found somewhere that still has one of the old ones on sale.

I know everything is a bit up in the air with 9th on the horizon, but in general would I be better off with 2 Dunecrawlers and 1 Disintegrator/Dunestrider, or the other way round? I feel having two of the tanks gives a bit more flexibility?

edit: just realised i also want some Kastelan Robots, so 2 Dune Crawlers would then mean I couldn't fit a Disintegrator into a battalion

I think the new SC with the boats will serve you better, as you can make use of Enginseers easier than more Domini. Concerning the Onager/Disintegrator dillemma, I'd pick the Disintegrator as he can fulfill the same role as an Onager with Neutron Laser if you use the Ferrumite Cannon. But the Belleros is a way more popular choice of weapon given it shoots without LoS.

But I'd wait to be on the 11th to have the points values of everything before buying/building if I were you.