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sexiest_hero wrote:Nightlords
Iron warriors
Alpha legion
Word bearers
World eaters
Death Guard
1k Sons
Emperor's children
Black legion

Thank you.

Took someone long enough, tho...

I'll do the next list,
- Alaitoc
- Biel Tan
- Iyanden
- Saim Hann
- Ulthwe
- Harlequins
- Exodites
- Crone Worlds
- Dark Eldar

That leaves two more people to do the Guard & Ork lists.

If I had to pick 9, I guess it would be:
1. Imperial Guard
2. Space Marines (including sub-chapters that are pretty much limited to 1-2 pages with a special rule and a unique unit).
3. "Forces of the Imperium" (stuff that doesn't fit in the previous two books, like my Sisters)
4. Orks
5. Eldar (including DE)
6. Tau
7. Tyranids
8. Whatever I'm forgetting. maybe a 2nd Space marine book due to the popularity factor.
9. Chaos, which would focus first on a Traitor Guard with Chaos Space Marines and Daemons as elites/HQs, but with options for all-CSM armies.

1.Codex Space Marines
2.Codex Imperial Gaurd
3.Codex Orks
4.Codex Chaos (includes LATD)
5.Codex Eldar (Dark, Path, Exodite and Harlequin)
6.Codex Tyranids
7.Codex Necrons
8.Codex Tau
9.Codex Imperium (Sisters, GK, Inquisitors, Assassins, Ad Mech)

Fantasy:
1.Warhammer Armies: Empire
2.Warhammer Armies: Orcs and Goblins
3.Warhammer Armies: Dwarves
4.Warhammer Armies: Chaos
5.Warhammer Armies: Lizardmen
6.Warhammer Armies: Elves
7.Warhammer Armies: Bretonnia
8.Warhammer Armies: Undead
9.Warhammer Armies: Ogres
(Screw you, Elves!)

1. Codex: Imperium of Man (Space Mureens, guard, sisters, =I=, GKs, Ad Mech, etc.)
2. Codex: Forces of Chaos (CSM, demons, LatD)
3. Codex: Xenos (Eldar, Dark Eldar, nids, tau, necron, orks, etc)

done. 3 codicies.

or even better:

1. Codex Imperialis (all armies)

Codex Space Marines inc. Grey Knights, LotD and Deathwatch
Codex Imperial Guard
Codex Imperial Agencies inc Inquisition, SoB, assassins
Codex Orks inc Clans and Freebooterz
Codex Eldar inc Craftworlds, Aspects, Harlequins, Dark Eldar, Pirates and Exodites
Codex Tyranids including Genestealer cults
Codex Tau inc Demiurg, Vespid, Kroot et al
Codex Chaos inc Deamons, cultists and renegades
Codex Ad-mech inc both loyalist and traitors

Sorry but no Necrons, never have liked them and never will.

All books would substitute a large portion of "fluff" for alternative lists, i.e. Marine chapter specific rules and troops choices

Each army could have a background book released alongside it

For fantasy I would go with

Empire
Dwarfs
Elves - all types
Undead - all types
Orcs and Goblins
Skaven
Chaos - all types
Lizard men
Brettonia

Ah, yes: my #8 would need to be necrons. Forgot about them.

For 40k, I'd use the old WHFB Army Book method, where at the back of the book are 'alternate lists' which just make changes to which FOC slot thing sit in. These would be expanded to a page per list, with a couple of SCs, the new list, and some fluff.

1. Space Marines, with alternate lists for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, White Scars

2. imperial Guard, with alternate lists for AdMech, Recon army, Siege army, Armoured Company

3. Inquisition, including SoB and GK as well as alternate lists for Pure GK, Pure Ministorum

4. Eldar, with alternate lists for Pirate (Dark) Eldar, Saim-Hann, Exodite, Harlequin.

5. Orks

6. Necrons

7. Tyranids, with alternate list for Genestealer Cult

8. Chaos, combined with alternate lists for Emperor's Children, World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons and Pure Daemons

9. Tau

1.) Codex Cadians
2.) Codex Catachans
3.) Codex Vostrayans
4.) Codex Death Corps of Krieg
5.) Codex Mordians
6.) Codex Preatorians
7.) Codex Tallarns
8.) Codex Valhalans
9.) Codex Tanith

Ok, nobody went for dropping Orks from 40K. Think I was just trying to be controversial anyway. To whoever it was who asked, I consider Eldar more of a Vulcan rip off (the whole need to follow a strict lifestyle in order to control emotions) than Space Elves.

Interested to see than no one (unless I missed them) went for a Codex: Chaos Daemons or even a Warhammer Armies: Daemons of Chaos. If anybody from GW is reading this thread...

Flashman wrote:Interested to see than no one (unless I missed them) went for a Codex: Chaos Daemons or even a Warhammer Armies: Daemons of Chaos. If anybody from GW is reading this thread...

Yup, looks like we are all in favour of recombining Codex: Blandmarines and Codex: Unnesesary.

I can see GW's problem with Codex: Chaos Marines (namely too much stuff), but it's not impossible to get it all in one book and indeed they succeeded with the previous edition.

I would go with a basic Chaos Marine list, with all Daemon types available for summoning outside of the FOC (maybe limit the no. of daemon units that can be taken by making it dependent on chaos icons etc). EDIT - And I would drop Furies, thereby saving valuable space

Different Chaos Marine Legions would be represented by selecting a Chapter Tactics type rule that define the Legion you want to play e.g. Word Bearers get access to more Daemons.

The four big Legions (World Eaters, Thousand Sons etc) would each have a two page variant list which would be sufficient to list unit options that can be taken from the generic list, USRs that may apply, Legion specific army entrys (e.g. Khorne Beserkers) and special characters.

All codices should be rewritten to offer multiple force organization charts for specific chapters, clans, craftworlds, etc. They could easily have specific heroes, access and limits to unit types, specific "chapter only" type options, overarching rules for specific chapters, and so on so that they play differently and appropriately. It's not that hard, just an organizational challenge, and would allow for many, many more variants in the types of armies. This would in turn create sales and thus help negate less codices or whatever hell reason they come up with for not doing this.

The codex list:

1 - Space Marines: force orgs for all the chapter variants
2 - Forces of the Imperium: Imperial Guard, Daemonhunters, Sisters of Battle, Inquisition, Witchhunters, Assassins, etc.
3 - Eldar: all craftworlds, plus Harlequins, Eldar Raiders (just lose the "Dark" part)
4 - Orks: all clans, freebooterz, Kult of Speed, etc.
5 - Tau: option for all kroot army
6 - Chaos: variant Chaos SM chapters, plus daemons, both as combined units and all daemon armies, cultists, etc.
7 - Necrons
8 - Tyranids
9 - Squats, since I have a spare slot

Flashman wrote:Interested to see than no one (unless I missed them) went for a Codex: Chaos Daemons or even a Warhammer Armies: Daemons of Chaos.

If anybody from GW is reading this thread...

You set an arbitrary number of 9 Codices / Army Books, and you're surprised that people actually played along with your request by folding Chaos back together, Undead back in one book?

I'm pretty sure that GW isn't reading this with an eye to reversing their business strategy, but even if they were, they won't undo the past decade's work of splitting asunder what was once whole. Chaos will never again be a single book, nor Fantasy Undead.
____

Flashman wrote:I can see GW's problem with Codex: Chaos Marines (namely too much stuff), but it's not impossible to get it all in one book

The four big Legions (World Eaters, Thousand Sons etc) would each have a two page variant list which would be sufficient to list unit options that can be taken from the generic list, USRs that may apply, Legion specific army entrys (e.g. Khorne Beserkers) and special characters.

Of course, it's not impossible. GW could go back to putting everything into a single Armies book, like the 40k2 Armies lists, the 40k3 Rulebook lists, or the WFB6 Ravening Hordes list. GW chooses not to do this because they don't want to be locked into a particular schedule. Personally, I'd be completely OK with a reset going back to the 40k3 Rulebook lists.

If the rules for Legions are in the CSM Codex, then there's no need for a standalone Legions Codex. If you are a Legions player, would you rather share space in a Codex with all of the non-Legions forces, or would you rather have a Legions-only book (with the ultimate potential for one day getting your very own Codex: Thousand Sons / Emperor's Children / Death Guard / World Eaters book)? I suspect the latter.
____

Skarboy wrote:All codices should be rewritten to offer multiple force organization charts for specific chapters, clans, craftworlds, etc. They could easily have specific heroes, access and limits to unit types, specific "chapter only" type options, overarching rules for specific chapters, and so on so that they play differently and appropriately. It's not that hard, just an organizational challenge, and would allow for many, many more variants in the types of armies.

This would in turn create sales and thus help negate less codices or whatever hell reason they come up with for not doing this.

If you've paid attention to the recent Codices, GW is already doing this by having various units gain Scoring, or move to Troops depending on unit size / HQ choices. This makes for one big list with a lot of options, rather than having to make several small lists and sublists that try to do similar things. In general, players have more options and flexibility than they had before.

Given that GW seems to be doing OK financially selling luxury goods in a down economy, I would imagine that the suits think their current strategy is working. This will only change if GW starts seeing serious, sustained drops in sales (consecutive quarters) or failed re-launches of core systems (major 40k Codex releases, WFB8 launch). From all indications, Orks, Guard, BA have sold well enough to confirm that their current approach is correct.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Flashman wrote:Interested to see than no one (unless I missed them) went for a Codex: Chaos Daemons or even a Warhammer Armies: Daemons of Chaos.

If anybody from GW is reading this thread...

You set an arbitrary number of 9 Codices / Army Books, and you're surprised that people actually played along with your request by folding Chaos back together, Undead back in one book?

I'm pretty sure that GW isn't reading this with an eye to reversing their business strategy, but even if they were, they won't undo the past decade's work of splitting asunder what was once whole. Chaos will never again be a single book, nor Fantasy Undead.

One of the dangers of starting one of these threads is that GW just might drop by, and start getting ideas. One in a million chance, but....

BrookM wrote:Exclusion of the Orks in 40k is rather criminal.

+1

This thread is bound for greatness...

1. Combine C:SM, C:BA, Codex DA into Codex Marines. BA and DA are supposedly codex astartes following chapters, they do not need books. Unfortunately due to 9 codex limit, codex diverging chapters don't get a full book to themselves like I would plan. Instead, include more extensive rules for them than for the codex chapters. Codex chapters get special characters which enable special units and upgrades, Noncodex chapters get the same but more extensively.
2. Combine Daemons and C:CSM. Add LatD.
3. Combine Eldar and Dark Eldar. Add Exodites and Harlequins.
4. Imperial Guard stay the same, but add Adeptus Mechanicus.
5. Combine Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters, add Xeno Hunters and Arbites.
6. Necrons
7. Orks
8. Tau
9. Tyranids

However, one good thing is that no one seems confident in dropping anything. That is, besides Flashman, you dirty fungus hater!

My nine.
1. I would just merge all the Space Marine Codexs into one huge tome.
2. Orks.
3. Tyranids.
4. Imperial Guard.
5. Chaos-Merge Daemons and CSM. Squezze some LaTD stuff in there while they're at it.
6. Eldar.
7. Merge Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters.
8. Tau.
9. Necrons.

DE can go the way of the Squats for all I care.

My nine:
1. Codex: Angels of Death (All the Space Marine into one double thickness codex)
2. Orks.
3. Tyranids.
4. Codex : Forces of The Imperium (Imperial Guard, =I= ordos, mechanicus)
5. Chaos-( allow for daemon armies, Renegade armies/chaos marines and mixed chaos marine/daemon forces)
6. Eldar: (both eldar and dark eldar)
7. Codex: Cults (genestealer cultists, chaos cultists)
8. Tau.
9. Necrons.

This would bring back all the good stuff that was core 40k fluff that they have abandoned (cultists, etc.) and would bring a lot of flavor back to the game imho...

The reason for a limit of nine books was to allow a release every two months and completion of the whole range in three years. It wasn't a cunning plot to lure people into saying they did not like Chaos Daemons.

If people choose to meet the limitation by dropping Chaos Daemons as a separate book, one must suppose that people regard them as the least needed standalone codex.

Nightwatch wrote:However, one good thing is that no one seems confident in dropping anything. That is, besides Flashman, you dirty fungus hater!

Yes, part of the fun was to see what armies people would be willing to see the back of. However, a lot of people as JohnHwang pointed out, went old school and folded armies back together again. I guess it shows that people want to keep as many races (and variations thereof) in the system as possible, which isn't really a bad thing, but it does mean a lot waiting!

And I'm not a fungus hater really. It's just that Orks stand out in 40K as a race that screams Fantasy. Nothing all that wrong with a bit of crossover between the two worlds though. If anything, it encourages people to move from one system to the other (though not always successfully).

This seems to be the only sensible option

"1) Space marines
2) Orks
3) Imperial Guard
4) Eldar (both flavours, but no inter-mingling)
5) Chaos (Marines and daemons in one book)
6) Inquisition (Witch Hunters, Daemon Hunters and Xenos Hunters)
7) Tau
8) Necrons
9) Tyranids "


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This seems to be the only sensible option
I'm with almost everyone else. Ported fantasy elves are ok but Orks aren't? How about Tyranids being a complete rip off from Starship Troopers/Alien? Also, iirc, Necrons came out right about the time that the Teriminator franchise started to saturate pop culture.

"1) Space marines
2) Orks
3) Imperial Guard
4) Eldar (both flavours, but no inter-mingling)
5) Chaos (Marines and daemons in one book)
6) Inquisition (Witch Hunters, Daemon Hunters and Xenos Hunters)
7) Tau
8) Necrons
9) Tyranids "

Flashman wrote:
And I'm not a fungus hater really. It's just that Orks stand out in 40K as a race that screams Fantasy. Nothing all that wrong with a bit of crossover between the two worlds though. If anything, it encourages people to move from one system to the other (though not always successfully).

Taking 'Fantasy" out of 40k seems really pointless at this point... A major concept of 40k is the idea that it's "Gothic Fantasy in Space" and there's not a lot to really go against this. It's one reason the Tau were received poorly initially, as they're the most 'pure sci-fi' of the factions, really.

I advocated merging factions because I think it makes sense. lots of companies do fun, readable, and valued combined books and these books are useful in play, too. It's something GW tends to be scared of, possibly since the Codex: Chaos Space Marines edition that was a bit compelx do to the list trying to accommodate 5+ major themes.

As I said, in the case of Chaos I'd want to refocus the 'default' Chaos army as Traitor Guard with CSM elites and/or leaders. A all-CSM army should be possible, but it's going to lack some things (artillery, meat shields, and cultists) in return for being based around veteran Space marines boosted by the Warp.

The reason I advocate this is I think Chaos Space Marines should be scary, not jsut Space Marines with a few extra spikes and skulls. Also a great deal of the stories support this view: I know a single CSM is a 'big deal' in a lot of the Gaunt's Ghosts novels, for example.

Ok here we go

40K

1. Codex Space Marines
2. non Codex Space Marines - Only 4 Chapters Space Wolves, BA, DA and BT
3. Orks
4. Guard Imperial and Renegade
5. Legions of Chaos - CSM and Deamons
6. Tyranids
7. Eldar - Nice Elves and Naughty Elves in one book.
8. Necrons
9. Tau

I don't like SoB, Inquisitors or Grey Knights (their rules go into a SM book and they are just allies like LOD)

I would make it clear that their can be clear interaction between the SM books and the Guard book and the Legions of Chaos book and the Guard book.

Fantasy:

1. Empire
2. Bretonians
3. Dwarves
4. Nice Elves - Wood + High
5. Naughty Elves
6. Orcs + Goblins
7. Warriors of Chaos
8. Undead - Vamps + Toomb Kings
9. Skaven

Can't stand Ogre Kingdoms and demamons are rubbish too. Just forgot to put in WOC so put them in instead of Lizardmen. Lizardmen - meh better looking orcs without the character.

Tau is the faction to appeal to the people like me who are not that into the Gothic Fantasy in Space theme.

It was Tau that got me back into 40K after I had abandoned it in the late 80s.

In that respect it was successful, and I have gone on to buy other armies too.

It could be argued that Elves and Humans are in Fantasy as well as 40K and so is Chaos, so why not Orks.

1) Space Marine's (despite me thinking 40K would be a far more interesting game without them) - all the other marine books (ie wolves, blood angels, dark angels ect) included, cutting out most of what is in C:SM that never gets used. It would be a mammoth book and I think it would make it too confusing for all the 12 year old new players though

2) Forces of Chaos- CSM's customisable for all chapters (ie 1k sons, black legion, death guard, world eaters, emperors children) chaos daemons, LatD

3) Imperium of Man- Imperial guard, Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights, Squats

4) Orks - massive customisation for different klans, more variety in general

5) Eldar - All individual Craftworlds, Harlequins + Commorragh

6) Tau Empire - Loads more allies + ethereal's + Fire Warriors ect.

7) Tyranids - Different rules for different Hive fleets, bring back Biomorphs, new units

8) Necrons - Make them interesting, give them at least twice as much variety.

9) New Army - go wild, make something bizarre, Space Skaven or something

Flashman wrote: I'm not a fungus hater really. It's just that Orks stand out in 40K as a race that screams Fantasy.

Well lets be honest: 40K isn't Science Fiction.

40K is "Science-fantasy".

The whole shtick and appeal of 40K is it's blurring of the lines between sci-fi and fantasy. It is ancient combat styles mixed with heroic fantasy motifs (Angels,swords, cav, daemons and so forth, etc.) blended with WWI aesthetics, pollinated w/ Roman myth/legend/aesthetics, and then with some aliens and lasers and robots thrown on top for good measure etc., etc. It is everything that has ever seemed cool about human history/literature/art/myth smashed together and cross-pollinated to create a hybrid reality of Earth's history/tech/etc..

It isn't "futuristic" in the normal sci-fi sense at all.

It is in the future yet somehow archaic at the same time, and that is at the core of it's identity.

Most of the basic components of what makes up the 40K aesthetic are familiar to use in many ways, but it is the way that they are combined in the 40K universe that reinvent the wheel so to speak and make what would seem a disastrous/outlandish concept somehow plausible...

So yes orks make perfect sense in such a setting, just as much as guys riding on top of tanks with swords charging high-tech alien enemies...

1: Merge space marine codexes into one, no need for their current bs multi codexes, you can do the same damn thing in one codex
2: Same with chaos marines, give them demons back too
3: Nercons
4: Eldar, both sides
5: Orks
6: Tau
7: Imperial guard
8: Imperial agents or something, for all the grey knights, sob, and so on
9: Nids
10 and 11: You can split the dark eldar, or some of the imperial agents up. However you can also give demons their own book and include another side, something like angels of chaos, you would basically end up with a forces of the warp book.

Kilkrazy wrote:The reason for a limit of nine books was to allow a release every two months and completion of the whole range in three years.

OK, but 40k is on a 4-year cycle... So wouldn't that suggest an even dozen books?

Or 10 + rulebook + starter?

There seems to be a few 'special' books thrown in every edition, be they campaign books (Eye of Terror), special variant books (Apocalypse), or even the old rules summary books.

I'd still rather see big books that are a bit more price-wise but have 2-4 factions covered than the current standard of one book that is super dedicated and, I think, suffers for it.

If they wanted to do so with "allies" you've got stuff like a book with Space Marines and variants, or the Inquisition, or Imperial Guard plus other Imperials, or Eldar & Dark Eldar.

If theyw anted to theme it around enemies, there's room for 'opposites' as well.