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I'd still rather see Autarchs using Executioners, Firepikes, and that sort of thing rather than off the shelf wares.

Here's just something quick and random:

I don't like the Reaper powers, they are too ego-centric for the Exarch.

Reaper Barrage - The reapers lay down a suppressive barrage on the enemy unit, ripping apart flesh and cover with equal ease. Whenever the Exarch's squad fires on an enemy unit, the enemy suffers a -1 to their cover save for the rest of the turn. Several Exarchs may combine their power for a cumulative penalty.

Mahtamori wrote:Here's just something quick and random:

I don't like the Reaper powers, they are too ego-centric for the Exarch.

Reaper Barrage - The reapers lay down a suppressive barrage on the enemy unit, ripping apart flesh and cover with equal ease. Whenever the Exarch's squad fires on an enemy unit, the enemy suffers a -1 to their cover save for the rest of the turn. Several Exarchs may combine their power for a cumulative penalty.

Please take the time to read the older posts on this thread.

rivers64 wrote:

Mahtamori wrote:Here's just something quick and random:

I don't like the Reaper powers, they are too ego-centric for the Exarch.

Reaper Barrage - The reapers lay down a suppressive barrage on the enemy unit, ripping apart flesh and cover with equal ease. Whenever the Exarch's squad fires on an enemy unit, the enemy suffers a -1 to their cover save for the rest of the turn. Several Exarchs may combine their power for a cumulative penalty.

Please take the time to read the older posts on this thread.

You'd be surprised where I got the inspiration.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm going to take a few minutes to update the article. Won't be able to cover it all...

DarknessEternal wrote:I'd still rather see Autarchs using Executioners, Firepikes, and that sort of thing rather than off the shelf wares.

The problem with this is the fluff. Firepikes and Executioners are ritual weapons, and the Exarchs are the priests. Why'd a Field Marshall use a holy symbol as a weapon when he has estranged himself from the path of the clergy?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another random thought (basically bringing back Pyro-Druid's expanded idea from page 6):

Army-wide special rule - Combined Arms.
Simply put, combining Eldar forces on specific targets allow Eldar to function better. This is to encourage Eldar players to divide and conquer rather than to create a massive front and then break it with a single strong unit.

Exactly how it functions... well... specifics aren't that clear for me, but it could be:
* A second unit attacks the same target - gain a +1 competence bonus on rolls to hit.
* A third unit attacks the same target - gain a +1 competence bonus on rolls to wound (1s still fail).
* A unit that is falling back and is within 6" of another Eldar unit may regroup even if it would normally be disallowed to do so from other circumstances.

Merry Christmas guys!
I think it looks like the Autarch is nearing completion, feel free to chip in any suggestions for tweaks if you get any awesome ideas. I'm going to be busy for the next few days (being why I'm up at 1:15 on Christmas morning posting ), but we can run through them all

When I get time (probably when I'm back at work on wednesday) I'll get all my Farseer/Seer Council ideas down for you all to tear apart

Deleted for trolling. -The Mgmt.

This thread is a bit stiff... I'll just sneak-start on Gorechild's next project by elaborating a previous idea.

Seer Council.
2-5 Farseers (cirka 55 points each)
3-10 Warlocks (cirka 20 points each)

Options: The council may purchase a dedicated transport as long as they are within the unit limit.

Psychic Powers: Psychic powers are purchased by the unit as a whole and are usable as long as there are Farseers present in the unit.
Communion: When casting psychic powers, nominate one Farseer who is the conduit. The conduit is considered the psycher for all purposes, and the remaining Farseers will bolster the conduit's psychic ability.
For each Farseer, the psychic test has a modifier of -1 (this has no impact on perils in the warp) and the psychic power may affect one additional eligible target, otherwise subject to normal psychic rules*

* That is, Mind War and Eldritch Storm may only target models in the same target unit

Gains:
* Psychic powers are effectively stronger the more Farseers you add
* Psychic powers are effectively cheaper since they allow extra uses per Farseer
* Psychic powers are more reliable, a squad of 3 will never fail unless there are modifiers
* The squad is even less likely to suffer losses from Perils in the Warp since only one psychic power is used for the effect of several

Losses:
* The Farseers may not be mounted on Jetbikes (throwback to Ulthwé council)
* The Council does not grant access to Warlock sqaud
* The Farseers are not independent characters
* Each individual psychic power is more vulnerable to Psychic Hoods et al.

Possible modification 1: Communion allows each Farseer to take a standard leadership test to add additional effects instead of adding straight up to the conduit. Psychic powers are more likely to fail this way, but the support Farseers are not in danger of suffering Perils.

Possible modification 2: Instead of adding more casts, having a certain number of Farseers simply means the psychic power is cast at a stronger version.
Mind War - in addition, each model in the targeted unit suffers a wound with no armour save possible on a roll of 4+
Eldritch Storm - becomes S6 and Ap3
Guide & Fortune - affects all friendly targets within range
Doom - affects all enemy targets within range

After going through the DE codex, I am certain that the next Craftworld Eldar codex will move towards being aall Eldar are related and that only adherence to the various paths is what will seperate them from their dark kin. To me, the Incubi and the army wide BS 4 are strong hints of what we will be seeing. I also believe that GW may reinforce the specialist nature of the army by including craftworld specific rules and possibly reducing the presence of guardians in the next dex. If guardians are still there they will have a stat boost and their base weapon will have its range and RoF reworked.

Will post more later

No more suggestions for the Autarch then? As promised I'll have a crack at the Farseer, I have two different approaches that I'd like to chip in, see what you think would be best.

When discussing Guardians we were having trouble making the warlocks a good unit leader without really breaking the seer council. A way we could fix this could be introducing another psyker to make up the bulk of a seer council in place of the warlocks, Psychic powers could then be put into 3 tiers rather than the Farseer Powers/Warlock Powers split that we have now. Farseers could have the main powers (doom, guide, fortune ect), the offensive powers could belong to warlocks (mind war, destructor ect) and the lesser lever could have the buffs and some additional powers (embolden, conseal ect).

The idea I was leaning towards was that a psyker could use all powers from their tier and from any lower level (so farseers can do it all, warlocks have access to everything but the farseer powers and the "apprentice" psykers would only have access to their own tier. This would allow you to keep the farseer as an independent character with the option to be joined by the non-warlock models.

My other idea was similar to Mahtamori's, you dont buy a Farseer, you buy a Seer council that includes 1 Farseer + 4 Warlocks (or the previously suggested lesser version) with the option to add up to 2 more farseers and 5 more warlocks (=12 models, to fill a WS completely). The powers could then be worked out as a unit, depending on how many models are left, more models would give more powerful and reliable casting. This would effectivly remove the Farseer as an IC and replace them with a HQ unit.

Which do you think sounds best?

Farseers.

Council scaling: The big problem is making the psychic powers scale, I recon. Mind War is inherently difficult to scale, having it affect several targets might make it too good while having additional Farseers add to the LD difference might simply make a situation where eventually you sit with absolutely no risk of losing the roll.

Farseer support: We've previously explored the option of having them be entirely support characters. Limit them down to Doom, Guide, and Fortune (with further possible support psychic powers).
Mind War could be reduced to a Warlock power, a ranged option for them, which isn't quite as effective (maybe one wound instead of roll for wound).

Warlocks.

Warlock elite unit: Another way to deal with Warlocks is to simply have them be their own (elite) unit full stop. Maybe even have them lead by Farseers as unit leader.

Warlocks separated from Guardians: Guardians could be lead by Black Guardians or similarly named Guardian - that is a former aspect warrior - which would have access to slightly more exotic war gear (hand-held Shuriken Cannons, power weapons, etc).

Farseers, warlocks, and the council are one of the sticking points of the codex. I don't think we should remove the council. It is too central to the craftworld's distinction, its fun and fluffy, etc.

As above, the way to be able to buff warlocks but not OP the council is to separate the two - warlocks and the members of the seer council can't be the same entry as they are now.

The seer council is a current deathstar - why? Destructor, Jetbikes, 4++, and fortune.

For now, I'll call the members of the council 'Warseers' and the squad upgrade characters 'Warlocks'.

The usefulness of the council is going to be dependent on the usefulness of farseers. The role of the council depends on the role of the farseer. As it is, the seer has to be within 6" of any friendly unit he wants to help. Keeping this restriction makes the council useless, as it will require another transport and constant micromanaging to keep them all in the correct place. Far easier to take an IC farseer, stick him in the desired unit, and save yourself the cost of another transport. While the warseers in the unit should not be warlocks, the farseers should be regular farseers.

When I think of a seer council, I think of something along the lines of a cadre of psykers, doing mystical and witchy things affecting battle elsewhere. I don't think of 10 guys on jetbikes chopping up MCs. To that end, I don't think the council should be tooled as a front line assault/shooty unit. I feel it should be, in the end, a support unit worth the cost.

Here's an option/idea (just making stuff up): Add 6" to the effective range of all farseer powers for each additional warseer in the unit at the time of casting. 3 farseers and 7 warseers? 42 extra inches of range for you. Obviously the farseer must lose offensive powers for this to work - I'm fine with that, I'm fine with maht's/others suggestion to make the farseer a pure support character.

Council of Seers: For each warseer present in the unit, the leadership of all farseers in the unit is modified by +1. Their leadership is still capped at 10 - exercise this cap after all modifiers have been applied (for instance, if there are 2 warseers alive in the unit, and the unit's leadership is modified by -1 by an outside force, their total leadership would be 11 (10+2-1), but it would be capped at 10).
---- this power make the council far, far more durable in the face of things like Deathleaper or other leadership-modifying effects. Farseers could have a pre-cap leadership of 17.

If the range-amplifying rule is used, there is no need to give the council an ability to bypass hoods, as those are all 24" (and the GK inducted board-wide hood will be going away soon, I assume).

Farseer: (105 pts)
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
5 5 3 3 3 5 1 10 --

Wargear:
Rune armor (3++ save)
Ghost helm (as current)
Witchblade
Shuriken Pistol
Runes of War: The farseer may use his Witchblade as a force weapon.

Wargear Options:
Runes of Witnessing (20pts): The farseer must take all psychic tests on 3d6, and throw out the highest die, accepting the lowest two. Should any opposing effect cause the farseer to roll on more than two dice, both effects are ignored, and the farseer takes pychic tests on 2d6.
Runes of Warding (45pts): as now
Spirit Stones (30 pts): as now

Special Rules:
Independent Character (this rule is lost if the Farseer is taken as part of a Seer Council)
Psyker

Psychic powers:
All Eldar Psychic powers are cast during the Eldar movement phase, unless other wise noted. Also, all Eldar psyker powers do not require line of sight to the target unit, unless otherwise noted. Eldar Farseers may cast 2 powers per turn.

Select three powers when deploying forces:
Eldar Fortune: (as now) (6" range)
Guidance: (as now) + reroll failed to-hit rolls in close combat (6")
Doom of the Eldar: reroll any to wound or armor penetration rolls against target unit (as now, + vs vehicles) (24")
The Hand of Fate: Target friendly unit may elect to reroll all difficult and dangerous terrain tests, and all run moves, until the start of the next eldar turn. (6")
A Hand on Your Shoulder: Target friendly unit may reroll all failed leadership tests until the start of the next eldar turn. (6")

Farseers get a pretty big bump in power. For 155pts you get a farseer that has and can cast 3 powers per turn, a 3++ save, never takes tests on worse than 2d6, and has a force weapon. For 200 pts, you also get runes of warding.

The Seer Council:
1-3 Farseers, 3-7 Warseers

Special Rules:
Council of Seers: An Eldar Seer Council is one of the most feared psychic entities in the universe. All psychic powers used by a farseer have additional range equal to the number of warseers alive in the unit, times 6, in inches (so, a farseer with 6 warseers casting Doom of the Eldar may target any unit within 60" (24" + 36")). The leadership value of a farseer in a seer council is modified by +1 for each warseer present in the unit. The leadership value is still capped at 10, but this cap takes effect after all modifiers are accounted for.

Psychic Presence: The psychic power gathered in the council distorts time and space around the unit. Any unit wishing to assault the seer council is treated as moving through difficult terrain. All scattering effects (such as blast weapons), which target (or touch) the council scatter an additional 1d3 when scattering.

Warseers (35 pts)(I figure, 25+10 for the 'free' psyker power):
WS BS S T W I A Ld sv
4 4 3 3 2 5 3 9 --

Wargear:
Rune armor (4++)
Witchblade
Shuriken Pistol

Psychic Powers: Warseer psyker powers are similar to a warlocks in that they require no test to use, and thus cannot be nullified. One must be selected at deployment.
Psyker bodyguard: The warseer gains +1 WS and BS
Eldritch Bolt: Psychic shooting attack, S4 Ap4 R18" Assault 1

Seer Council Powers:
The seer council is a psychic entity all to its own. It may cast one psychic power per turn, aside from all the normal powers allowed. The leadership of the council is equal to the number of warseers in the council, +2 for each farseer, capped at 10. The leadership of the council cannot be modified by any force, friendly or hostile.

Eldritch Storm
Select a point on the table, marking it with a die. Scatter the point as you would a blast shooting attack, but do not subtract BS. All units within 12" of the final point are struck by a psychic storm of immense power. Vehicles suffer two automatic glancing hits. Infantry units suffer D6 S6 Ap6 hits.


Summary thoughts:
These units and statlines are obviously independent of the warlock entry which will accompany guardians and other units. My vision of it is as a "King" unit not unlike chess. It doesn't move much or get directly involved in the battle, but it can kill things that wander too close, and it is the principle unit on the eldar side of the table. The whole game will be determined by the ability to simultaneously protect the council and to use the council's abilities. I feel the few critical things to the council are the range-amplification rule, and the lack of a dedicated transport. I don't feel that the support powers outlined in the farseer entry are overpowered when extended to that range. I'm not at all set on the warseer powers or the 'council power', of which, if kept, there needs to be more of (1 selected at deployment).

Overall with farseers, I feel the powers should be free, three should be selected at deployment, and 3 should be the max # of powers used. Farseers should have a force weapon, warseers should not. Perhaps warlocks should have force weapons. The eldar should have access to offensive psyker powers, but they should not be on the farseer.

Ultimately, I feel that if we settle on an incarnation of the seer council which is fierce at shooting or close combat in an offensive manner, we have failed.

I like what i'm hearing so far. For my input... I'd go with different levels of psyker.

Farseer Ancient
Having held the position of Farseer for centuries, possibly millenia, the farseers powers have matured like a fine wine, growing stronger, more potent and more flavourfull (and with a hint of oak?).
The Ancient would have access to a wide range of Seer powers, being able to cast multiple powers in a turn, and have access to a few stronger powers that could be harder to cast (fails on any double?), or simply cost more points.

Farseer
Relativly new to the position, holding office for merely a few decades or centuries the seers powers are weaker than that of the ancients, with less powers available.

Warlock battlemage
Warlocks, before they become seers in their own right, but after serving as an apprentice. These warlocks will be assigned to lead other units on the field of battle, their superior abilities (compared to an apprentice) allow them to operate apart from other warlocks, their powers would be varied, with an option of taking a persistant and/or activated power.

Warlock apprentice
Warlocks who have barely set foot upon the path of the seer. These warlocks form a seer council for a farseer (or possibly farseers) and learn under their guidance. Their powers are limited, toned down version of those the battle mage posseses, with less variety, however, the warlocks will be able to focus their combined energies for powerful effects.

----------

Possible powers.

Ancient
-Doom rank 2
-Guide rank 2
-Fortune rank 2
-Isha's blessing rank 2
-Eldritch Storm
-Webway portal

Farseer
-Doom
-Guide
-Fortune
-Isha's blessing

Battlemage
-Enhance rank 2
-Conceal Rank 2
-Augment Rank 2
-Endure Rank 2
-Embolden Rank 2
-Regrowth
-Mind War
-Destructor
-Spear of Khaine
-Sunder

Apprentice
-Enhance
-Conceal
-Augment
-Endure
-Embolden

Seer council powers
-Regrowth rank 2
-Mind War rank 2
-Destructor rank 2
-Spear of Khaine rank 2
-Sunder rank 2

----------

Power effects

--Eldritch Storm
The Ancient summons up an unearthly storm, the skies become turbulent and storm clouds gather, disrupting the crude technology of the lesser races. Any enemy unit attempting to deep strike with X" of the psyker must immedietly ...perform action Y...
(possibilites include a simple x=18, or random x=4D6... Action Y could be to roll a die, on a 4+ the unit rolls on the mishap table)

--Webway portal
The Psyker enters a trance like state, feeling the tendrils of energy from all things around him. The seer reaches out and opens a temporary webway portal that allow him and his unit to enter and redeploy. The psyker and his unit is picked up from the table and immedietly placed anywhere on the board following the deep strike rules. Should the unit mishap, and are delayed, place them into reseves as normal, next turn they must attempt to deep strike again.

--Doom
Rank 1 = Range 24", target enemy unit. Any 'to wound' rolls made against the target unit may be re-rolled if they fail to wound
Rank 2 = Range 18", target enemy unit. Any 'to wound' rolls made against the target unit may be re-rolled if they fail to wound, in addition, any form of attack with a strength value will count as being (+1) strength (example, S:5 becomes, S:5(6)) The additional strength bonus is not used when calculating instant death.
(Could be interesting... those 12" cats suddenly seem worthwhile...

--Guide
Rank 1 = Range 12", Target friendly unit. Any failed to-hit roll made by the target unit may be re-rolled
Rank 2 = Same, 6" aura

--Fortune
Rank 1 = Range 12", Targer friendly unit. Any failed saves made by the target unit may be re-rolled.
Rank 2 = same, 6" aura

--Isha's blessing
Had an idea, forgot what it was

--Regrowth

--Mind War

--Destructor

--Spear of Khaine

--Sunder

--Enhance

--Conceal

--Augment

--Endure

--Embolden

----------

I'll get to the rest later... hungry, tired... thirty...

@Dayve- I was thinking about the idea of different levels for each power, similar to WHFB, where you can opt to do the basic spell or a more powerful version that is harder to cast. I dont realy know how it could translate well in 40k though. Although your suggestions are good, I don't really like the idea of purchasing Doom 1 or Doom 2, I'm sure a more elegant solution could be found if I have a think.

@Gwyidion- I really like your suggestion for the council, I'm starting to think its a much fluffier, cooler solution. I'm thinking along the lines of dropping "Farseer" as a HQ and just replacing it with "Seer Council" (I although I think Warseer is a bad name Maybe DakkaDakkaseer )

I wholeheartedly agree with you when you said "I feel that if we settle on an incarnation of the seer council which is fierce at shooting or close combat in an offensive manner, we have failed" (unless of course its blowing up the brain of a librarian who thinks he'll have a go at doing some magic tricks nearby)

Names are of course, entirely fluff decisions.

I like keeping a farseer as a standalone HQ choice, because any seer council which simultaneously lives up to fluff, is effective on the table top, and isn't utterly broken will cost lots of points - we should retain a psychic HQ option for smaller point games. Keep in mind that what I drew out above, if fitted with all the fixings, only one set of runes, and a full complement of something-seers would cost around 760 points.

Differing levels of powers ... i feel the only place powers should have differing levels of powers or scaling is in the seer council - as a function of the number of seers in the unit.

What about something like the Seer counsil of Ulthwe Apocalypse formation? The Warlocks can increase the range of the Psychic powers used by the Farseers? but, come on, These are farseers were talking about, do they really need a change?

Exploring all options, no they don't. What they could do with, strictly from a game perspective, is some tweaking.
Eldritch Storm and Mind War aren't terribly effective and Guide is often difficult to use due to it's short range. Same with Fortune, except it's usually the Farseer's own unit being targeted.

Eldritch Storm and Mind War should easily be Jaws of the World Wolf (or whatever it's called) equivalent in terms of potency, if fluff is to be kept consistent. That said, I'm not terribly fond of that power level psychic powers to begin with and would rather see the different space marine chapters' psychic powers brought down to a reasonable level instead.

@Gorechild. I was going for only purchasing "doom" rather than the ranks. Depending on the seer... purchasing doom would give you either rank 1 or rank 2, rather than having to select which ranking. The 'harder to cast' bit comes in with the seer actually costing more points the more powerful he is (and therefore the more powerfull his spells)

This unit is going to need alot of work before anyone settles on it, theres so much possibility and several different ways to do it, i suppose thats why its been left so late ^.^

I think a decent starting point would be to decide on the models themselves and get some temporary names, power can come later. First off, Farseers, just one stat line? or go the heamoncullus rout and have ancient seers? As for warlocks, i like the idea of the council being make up of apprentice warlocks (hence slightly nerfing the deathspar quality) while the more experianced warlocks are able to go power up the guardians. With 2 sets of warlocks, guardians can reap the benefits they bring, without overpowering the council. Once we've set up what were having, get the statline sorted out and work on wargear (like witchblades, ghosthelms, etc) then leave the hardest bit until last... powers.

I think it'd be nice that if a farseer would cast a power and the casting value is X (5 maybe?) or less then the power is unable to be cancelled out by hoods or the like.

How about this:

Runes of Shielding – 30pts

Whenever an enemy psychic defense (anything that nullifies or affects the power negatively) activates against a Farseer you may attempt to negate its effect and cast your power normally on a d6 roll of a 4+.

@Gwyidion - Sure the name is a fluff decision, but it super important Why would you use something that sounded lame?

Nulipuli2 wrote:but, come on, These are farseers were talking about, do they really need a change?

Just because they are competitive at the moment doesnt mean they are "right". Frankly I think any HQ that is meant to be a supporting unit, but can go toe to toe with almost all MC and slaughter them, is broken.

@dayve- Aah sorry, I misunderstood. I like the idea of a seer council of farseers only being allowed 1 power a turn and the "ancient" seer (think the name need's reworking, its a blatent steal from DE) having 2 (maybe SStones giving +1 on top of that for XX points?), then having the power's radius linked to the size of the council. Then you could be left with the basic short ranges if the seer is used as an IC?


Also, I'll chip in....
Runes of "Feth You Librarian"- If any non friendly psychic abilities target or effect a unit with the runes of "Feth You Librarian", The model casting the power suffers a S8 AP1 hit that ignores cover, as a backlash of psychic energy warps their mind.
Of course, the name is open for debate

Awe, but I like my melee farseer :-(

On a serious note, why not tweak the mechanics of some Eldar psychic powers to reflect how powerful Farseers are depicted as. I was thinking something like:

Mental Siege: The Eldar player declares a number of psychic tests it will attempt before rolling for all test. If all tests are passed a single enemy unit within 18" takes a number of S5 AP4 hits equal to the number of tests made.

Alternatively have a similar mechanic as a Farseer/Ancient Farseer rule (either default or purchased).

Runes of Focus: Once per turn a Farseer using a psychic power may also state a number of extra psychic tests he will attempt. Each test after the first results in an accumulative -1 to the Farseers Ld score for the remaining test. If all tests are pasts resolve the power as if it had been used a number of times equal to the number of tests taken.

I didn't add the Ld penalty the the strait power as I figured the power could be regulated. Advantages to the ability are obvious: Cast the same power multiple time. I can only see to disadvantages though: Higher risk of not casting and PotW. Possible changes could be: Not allowed to use a second power in the same turn, exclude psychic shooting powers (as I see that as a possible issue, 3-4 mind wars anyone?), or Ld penalty last until the start of the Eldar players next turn.

@Gorechild: Nah, I like the name. If needed we can shorten it to "Runes of Ful" and add some barely plausible fluff of some Farseer Ful to hide it's meaning. Even if the name is changed, I like the concept.

And to side track a little with end of year musings. Would the fluff support or condone having minor innate psykers scattered throughout the army. In general I know it is a yes, but I'm more asking about could someone on an Aspect path still potentially have minor powers. If it's ok fluff wise then:

Innate psyker: A single model in any non-vehicle unit may be upgraded to an innate psyker. The chosen model is considered a psyker for all purposes, additionally while alive the model provides one of the following to the entire unit, +1 WS, +1 BS, +1 I, +1 LD, +6 cover. This power is always in effect and doesn't require a psychic test to use.

In short it would be like a minor warlock any unit could take to give them an edge. Would also allow the current build of "all aspect warriors have the same stat line".

Veil of Tears is a harlequin specific psychic power, but surely some non-harlequin seer has managed to pull it off to a lesser degree.

Veil: Nominate a single unit within 6". Until the start of the next Eldar turn, any unit wishing to target the veiled unit must roll 2d6x2, this is their spotting distance in inches. If the unit is not within spotting distance they may not fire that turn.

And we need an armoury. Not sure what we'd have in it, but Exarchs and leader type models should have access to it.

And while I'm on customizable, is it reasonably to have minor option for Aspect warriors? For example: "A unit of scorpions my exchange their pistol and chainsword with a two handed chainsword (conferring +2 S)", "A unit of Avengers may replace their catapult with a pistol and close combat weapon.", or "A unit of banshees may replace their power weapon with a [name] (rending, +1 S)". All keeping within their current ability, but giving them slightly more option/effectiveness.

And... nope that's it for now, I think that's all the end of year musings I have.

Pyro-Druid wrote:If needed we can shorten it to "Runes of Ful" and add some barely plausible fluff of some Farseer Ful to hide it's meaning. Even if the name is changed, I like the concept.

LOL I love that try to use fuff to cover a blatent middle finger to SM's

All eldar have psychic ability, its a vital part of a lot of their tech, so an aspect working around that its perfectly reasonable.

I like your runes of focus and mental siege ideas, but they come across as being a little too complex. It may just be the wording, but we could work on it

Given all these cool rune suggestions I think something allong the lines of "A Farseer may take up to 2 (or maybe 3) runes into battle (no duplicates are allowed), they are:

RoWarding - XX points
RoWitnesing - XX points
RoFuL - XX points
RoFocusing - XX points
RoShielding - XX points"


Otherwise it would get uber confusing, and cost a stupid number of points.

I think it may be my wording, game play wise I envision it going something like this. "I'm using Doom. I'll use RoFocusing for an extra 2 (three total). *rolls three psychic test; all pass*. I doom units A, B and C." or on the down side, "I'm using Doom. I'll use RoFocusing for an extra 4. *rolls 5 test*. 1 fails, 2 get PotW, 2 fine. No one is doomed and I potentially take 2 wounds."

The -1 Ld is that on 3d6 taking the lowest, how often do you actually fail. As I was pondering how it would work I rolled 23 passes (and no double 1s, I may have been lucky there) before I gave up try to fail. In short, while I may have used the last of my luck for the year, it would be too much without the Ld penalty.

And I agree, if we're having a full list of runes a purchase limit may be a good thing if only for potential balance. Maybe allow Warlocks to take 1.

Whenever an enemy psychic defense (anything that nullifies or affects the power negatively) activates against a Farseer you may attempt to negate its effect and cast your power normally on a d6 roll of a 4+.

Rivers' RoShielding (above) would probably be better named as RoPiercing. For RoShielding I'd go: "the bearer and any unit he's joined is unaffected but psychic shooting attack on a 5+". That being said I like Rivers' Rune, I don't like my latter suggestion, "Doesn't work on X+" just doesn't feel Eldarish, and should be left to the lesser races.

Just so you know, with 3D6 and taking away the highest... the probability of passing a test on Ld:10 is over 98% (Without Embolden)... i worked that one out on a slow work day a while ago, not sure on the other Ld values if your throwing in -1's or more to it.

Runes: I like the idea of having more runes, however if we go for Runes of Ful (i like that name aswell ) Then maybe warding should not have a damage effect, and simply cause the power to fail, if the points are appropriate, a failure to cast could result in the enemy being unable to cast any more powers in that player turn. Runes of Ful seem damaging enough (but only works on offensive powers, personally i find the buffing powers more damaging)

Stat lines... so we need a big+little Farseer and a big+little Warlock... thiink up some name, mine are just working titles

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Ancient Farseer (Old, weak and slighty crystaline)
3 4 3 4 3 4 1 10 3++
Farseer (Young[ish] enough to pack a punch in combat but not to be relied upon for combat abbilities)
5 5 3 3 3 5 2 10 4++
Warlock Battlemage (Exarch level warlock for guardians, Ld:9, W:2, and WS/BS up puts him between apprentice and farseer)
5 5 3 3 2 5 2 9 4++
Warlock Initiate (normal stats, better than a guardian, worse than an aspect, initiates make up the seer council so as not to OP it with multiple battlemages, we can beef up warlocks without effecting the council performace this way)
4 4 3 3 1 5 1 8 4++

Wargear... lots of possibilities here.

Withblades: Always wound on a 2+, counts as S9 against vehicles, In the hands of a Farseer, the witchblade counts as a force weapon.
Singing spears: As witchblades, 2-handed, can be throw 12". When thrown, may not be used as a force weapon (or should it? )
Ghost helm: Ignores perils on a 3
Runes of Witnessing: As is.
Runes of Warding: Any enemy psychic must roll an extra D6, any roll of 12 or more will cause the psyker to be unable to cast any further powers this turn.
Runes of Ful: Any psychic power that Targets Eldar, or includes Eldar in their AoE... etc.... S8 AP1 hit
Runes of Focus: As previous post.
Runes of Fortitute: 5++ to any unit the psyker joins. (warlocks with guardians, warlocks with WG, Farseer joining scorpions, etc)
Runes of Power: And psychic test that totals 4 or less, cannot be countered by any means (total after removing the highest die is using RoWit) such as psychic hoods.

Get rid of spirit stones, simply allow a farseer 2 powers, an ancient 3.

Minor change in subject but I think farseers need an anti-vehicle power. Doom is great, but when your up against a line of 5+ rhino's there is not much a seer council can do other than throw spears at it.

Back to the unit formation, how does this sound:

Seer Council: XX Points

Unit: 1 Farseer
You may add up to 2 additional Farseers for XX points each, For each Farseer in the unit you may include 3 Initiates for XX points per model.

Wargear:
All models in a seer council are armed with a Witch Blade and Shuriken Pistol
Ancient: Rune Armour 3++, Ghost helm
Farseer: Rune Armour 4++, Ghost helm
Initiate: Rune Armour 4++

Options:
If a Seer Council contain the full 12 models, one Farseer may be upgraded to a Ancient Farseer for XX points
Any model may repace their witch blade and Shuriken pistol with a Singing Spear for +2 points

Farseer- 90
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
5 4 3 3 3 5 2 10 4++
Ancient-
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
5 5 3 3 3 5 2 10 3++
Wargear:
Witchblade
Shuriken Pistol

May be upgraded to a Farseer Ancient-30 Points
May take:
Singing Spear-3 Points
Jetbike-25 Points
Runes of Witnessing- 15 Points
Runes of Warding- 10 Points
Runes of Ful-10 Points
Runes of Power-10 Points
May choose up to 2 psychic powers, Ancient may choose 3
Fortune(12" range)
Guide(12" range)
Doom- No Change
Fortitude-See: 5++ for entire unit (like Force Dome)
Eldritch Storm-Eldritch Storm
Select a point on the table, marking it with a die. Scatter the point as you would a blast shooting attack, but do not subtract BS. All units within 12" of the final point are struck by a psychic storm of immense power. Vehicles suffer an automatic glancing hits. Infantry units suffer D6 S6 Ap6 hits.
Mind War-Unit he targets counts as Ld8 unless it would be normally less
May take a Wave Serpent

For every Farseer in your Army you may add a Seer council, these do not take up any space in the FoC but otherwise function as a seperate HQ unit
Warlock: 35 Points
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 4 3 3 1 5 1 9 4++
Warlock Battle Leader 50 Points
Ws Bs S T W I A Ld Sv
5 4 3 3 1 5 2 10 4++
Composition:
3-9 Warlocks and a Battle Leader
May take:
Singing Spear-3
Jetbike-25
Each Warlock must take a Psychic Power
Embolden-No Change
Enhance-No Change
Destructor-No Change
Conceal-unit gaints Stealth USR, and 5+ cover in the open
Augment-Augment is used when a Farseer in the Seer Council succesfully used a Pyschic Power. Unlike
Warlock powers, the Warlock must pass a Psychic test to use Augment. If the Test is successful, the range
of the Farseers Psychic power is doubled.
May take a wave serpent.

For another runes, how about Runes of Amplifaction (new name?) – All ranges for spells are increased by 6".

rivers64 wrote:For another runes, how about Runes of Amplifaction (new name?) – All ranges for spells are increased by 6".

Its another decent option We were discussing the ranges being directly linked to the size of a seer council (ie Range = models in unit x 6"), both could work fairly well, but could result in a VERY different feel for the unit. I personally like the idea of the units role and method of being played changing as you have more points to use but YMMV.

These runes would be mainly for the lone Farseer.

Runes:

Runes of GoScrewYourself are too good. S8 Ap1 for any power which affects the eldar?! Thats a "fail your save and you explode" power. I think runes of warding, which make every psyker on the table take a perils nearly 40% of the time are plenty good enough.

And runes of warding - 10 points? they're already one of the best wargear options in the entire game. They need a price increase, not decrease.

Runes of focus - way, way too good. Your farseer who can cast only two powers joins a unit of guardians with an embolden lock, and has runes of witnessing. Now, he just takes 3 tests, 1 at 10, 1 at 9, and 1 at 8, all with 3d6-choose two, plus rerolls for failures. More often than not, he'll succeed, and, with proper placement, can guide/fortune half an eldar gunline. Effective 6 powers on a 150ptish model.

If you want to add more runes, add in runes of war - enabling the use of a witchblade or a singing spear (yes, a force weapon when thrown, they can allocate that wound), as a force weapon

Runes of Fortitude - no. You can't toss unit-upgrade invulnerable saves around the eldar codex which contains fortune like that. It is utterly broken on a unit like wraithguard, who currently possess a single weakness - rending or powerweapons in CC. Suddenly, the unit is T6 and has an effective 3+/4++, and is essentially invulnerable in close combat.

Runes of Power - an ability like this would be good, but i'm not sure i like this method of achieving the goal.

Innate Psyker - too good in an army of specialists. A Unit of BS5 reapers, a unit of WS6 Harlequins, a unit of WS5 banshees. Eldar units are powerful, and small changes can change a unit from being "very good at their role" to "broken". That harlequin unit goes first against nearly everything, hits nearly everything on 3s with rending, and has an invuln save which means they can tangle with well, anything. Adding in abilities which can change the statline of any unit in the codex makes units insanely hard to balance, as you have to take into account all possible combinations (for instance, we can't give wraithlords an invulnerable save, because if they are fortuned, they become invincible).

Veil - sure. I could see it being very useful.

Armoury - An exarch uses specific, ritualistic aspect weaponry. It isn't grabbed from a storage closet or a weapon rack. Customization for exarchs is good, customization for HQs and characters is good.... but they don't just head down to the armory and requisition a Triskele or a Tempest Launcher. Autarches and characters use one armoury, each aspect uses a different one.

Mental Siege, and any power which involves taking X number of psychic tests. Psychic tests are slow. You have to roll them one at a time. Taking 10 of them isn't like rolling 10 to-hits. Simplify.


Eldar should kick the crap out of everyone but daemons and CSM in psychics. Against a human psyker, even a marine, a farseer should be worlds beyond them. We need a method through which eldar powers are harder to nullify or cancel, and we need a method which messes with opposing psykers.

There are three methods of anti-psyker. Test-modification (sitw, eldar, deathleaper, pbs i believe), nullfication (SM, Inq) and unit immunity (null rod). Unit immunity should remain as it is. Test-modification should remain as it is, with a clarification on the interaction between runes of warding, SITW, and runes of witnessing (my preference - everything cancels, 2d6 as normal). The rubber meets the road in the nullifcation box. It is the #1 method any eldar player sees, it is the #1 method used by the player base. Psychic hoods and the SW bulls*** 3+ stuff.

I've had a proposed method for it, which I think i've mentioned before:
"Mind War: At any time an opponent uses an ability which nullifies, or cancels a eldar psychic power on a fixed die-roll (i.e., a Space Marine Librarian with a psychic hood), instead of the normal effect, roll a d6 and add each model's leadership. If the opposing player wins, the power is cancelled normally. If the eldar player wins, the model which possesses the wargear item or ability to cancel a psychic power takes the difference in wounds, with no armor or cover saves allowed."

Every time a marine player wants to cancel a power, he's risking his librarian.

Singing spear - switch for free. Its a tradeoff.

Warlock stuff:
Conceal - 5+ cover at all times, or stealth. Not both. The rules interact.






I like the addition of range to powers being based on the council size - a lone farseer i see attached to a unit, a council i see in the backfield, directing the flow.

I fixed it just for you

Nulipuli2 wrote:Farseer- 90
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
5 4 3 3 3 5 2 10 4++
Ancient-
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
5 5 3 3 3 5 2 10 3++
Psychic Prowness:
Any non-Daemon/chaos model, that attmepts to nullify a eldar psychic power, must reroll the result if it has suceeded
Wargear:
Witchblade
Shuriken Pistol

May be upgraded to a Farseer Ancient-30 Points
May take:
Singing Spear-3 Points
Jetbike-25 Points
Runes of Witnessing- 15 Points
Runes of Warding- 20 Points
Runes of Power-15 Points
Runes of War-20 Points
May choose up to 2 psychic powers, Ancient may choose 3
Fortune(12" range)
Guide(12" range)
Doom- No Change
Fortitude- 5++ for entire unit (like Force Dome)
Eldritch Storm-Eldritch Storm
Select a point on the table, marking it with a die. Scatter the point as you would a blast shooting attack, but do not subtract BS. All units within 12" of the final point are struck by a psychic storm of immense power. Vehicles suffer an automatic glancing hits. Infantry units suffer D6 S6 Ap6 hits.
Mind War-Unit he targets counts as Ld8 unless it would be normally less
May take a Wave Serpent

For every Farseer in your Army you may add a Seer council, these do not take up any space in the FoC but otherwise function as a seperate HQ unit
Warlock: 35 Points
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 4 3 3 1 5 1 9 4++
Warlock Battle Leader 50 Points
Ws Bs S T W I A Ld Sv
5 4 3 3 1 5 2 10 4++
Composition:
3-9 Warlocks and a Battle Leader
May take:
Singing Spear-3
Jetbike-25
Each Warlock must take a Psychic Power
Embolden-No Change
Enhance-No Change
Destructor-No Change
Conceal-No Change
Augment-Augment is used when a Farseer in the Seer Council succesfully used a Pyschic Power. Unlike
Warlock powers, the Warlock must pass a Psychic test to use Augment. If the Test is successful, the range
of the Farseers Psychic power is doubled.
May take a wave serpent.