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2020/09/20 17:23:05
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I can see the Disintegrators as an option to score While We Stand compared to the Dunecrawlers and Dakkabots of the other list. Stygies Raiders make sense just to cover for the Breacher's slowness. I can only imagine the Sterylizors are for fallback prevention, but I don't know how important that is. I also don't know what the second Manipulus is for. Does he really need the extra aura coverage?
"Cognis Overwatch" strat is called and paid for "before an Adeptus Mechanicus unit form your army fires Overwatch", to quote the strat text.
does this mean that to use it, i spend 1CP to call "Fire Overwatch", then a second CP to call "Cognis Overwatch", i.e. 2CP to get the benefit, correct? or is thier some other way of getting Overwatch that means i wont always have to spend 2 CP to get it?
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
2020/09/20 18:39:43
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
That is correct, you have to pay 1CP for Overwatch then another 1CP for Cognis Overwatch. Currently, there is no other way to get Overwatch, which is a shame because we have a lot of things that modify Overwatch.
Played a second game this weekend, a 2000 pts game against Death Guard. Lost 73-61, so kinda close game, but very enjoyable. I'm really glad that Death Guard seems to be less boring to play against, even though their resilience is still hard to beat.
He played a CP-intensive list as he had a lot of PA stuff, he started the game with 4 CP ! From memory his list was: 1 Daemon Prince, 3 PBC (which had a 4++ with a relic on the WL), 1 Biologus, 1 Flamer guy, 1 Sorcerer, another character, a block of 20 Plague Marines, 20 Poxwalkers, 2 Rhinos, 2 squads of Plague Marines with melee weapons in the Rhinos and with two of the characters with them. His strategy was basically to keep the PBCs in the back out of LoS with the Lord to have them shoot with the Mortars and Entropic Cannons when they could, while enjoying a nice 4++. The big block of PM were moving towards my line while tanking the brunt of my army, with a -1 to Hit (psychic power), reroll 1s and 2s FnP with the Biologus and their natural resilience. The Rhinos were supposed to move on the other flank and deliver a squad that threw a load of boosted grenades that did MWs on important targets.
My list was written in a rush and with the models I had, as I did a replacement last-minute for his opponent, but still worked rather well considering the circumstances. It was:
- Cawl (WL)
- Manipulus
- Daedalosus
- 3x5 Vanguards with 1 plasma
- 5 Vanguards
- 2x5 Rangers with 2 arquebuses and Omnispex
- 4 Autocannon Striders
- 2 Lascannon Striders
- 3 Sulphurhounds with the carbine (I know but WYSIWYG)
- 2 Dakkastelans - 4 Fistelans with Flamers
My secondaries were Domination (bad choice with my list, and against Death Guard), Kill the Psykers and Bring them Down. Killed the two Psykers, 2 Rhinos (4 pts) and the Daemon Prince (2 pts) but didn't manage to finish off any PBC because of LoS issues and their resilience. My opponent had Raise the Banners, While we Fight we Stand and Domination, and his objectives worked out better than mine. I'll definitely try the Banners someday, it's just that I never tried it because it seemed to be lot of hassle for few things but it scores quite well in games like these where I had three objectives from start to finish save one turn.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2020/09/20 23:28:43
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
DarkHound wrote: I can see the Disintegrators as an option to score While We Stand compared to the Dunecrawlers and Dakkabots of the other list. Stygies Raiders make sense just to cover for the Breacher's slowness. I can only imagine the Sterylizors are for fallback prevention, but I don't know how important that is. I also don't know what the second Manipulus is for. Does he really need the extra aura coverage?
disintegrators are just better in every way than crawlers and robots. Heavy terrain invalidates the their uses and 9th has ramped it up, they can split fire for better efficiency and they have artillery to threaten primaries. They also move 12" and can ignore cover while hitting on 2s.
25 breachers needs 2 manipulus for board presence, if he doesnt take midboard he cant get into the game.
Likewise, Stygies Raiders offers -1hit which is very important when your screens are what enables the above point.
Sterylizors have multiple value, you can pay to scout move and then, as infantry, they can breach ruins and tag with Deeply Sunk to invalidate an entire movement phase which enables the above. They can also deploy scramblers, Soar Away, score again on turn 3 and repeat to do the same on turn 5. They also have 12"move and can support raiders for Engage on All fronts.
2020/09/21 05:19:33
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Hey everyone long time removed player here trying to start again. I've been really trying to immerse myself in the current meta for admech before I go off spending 100's of dollars, and all the info im seeing online seems to run contradictory to what I see on here. Mars shooting castle w/ cawl and dakka bots, electro priests in transports, ironstriders with auto cannons, crawlers with icarus arrays and fusilaves seem like all the buzz on youtube, Google, etc but here it seems that data hoard breachers, destroyers, raiders, and disintegraters seem to be more praised while electro priests, dakkabots etc seem to be critically recieved. Its hard for me to decide which way to take my army. Seems to be very little info on flyers, has anyone done the math on these to see which is more efficient?
2020/09/21 05:52:20
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
The math is good on every unit you've mentioned, in the right circumstances. It takes only a couple of seconds to check the math on units yourself. The trick is putting those units in those circumstances.
Two Data-hoard Breachers are the only thing that have placed well at tournaments, but those lists had little in common except the 25 Breachers. To be clear, we've just been discussing those tournament results the last couple pages. Go back further and you'll see we advocate all those other units too. Cawl with Ironstriders is the common thread of our theory crafting lately.
Part of AdMech's poor tournament showing has been that we're extremely dollar expensive per point and relatively difficult to play. Given the option, stronger players have gone with more accessible Space Marines. We'll see what changes as AdMech gets figured out.
On that note, the meta is going to shift faster than you can keep up with. It's better to build and play something you enjoy first. Your effort in practice and preparation is going to be more important than minor statistical differences. It isn't worth trying to build 25 Breachers if you quit out of boredom by the 15th, yeh?
For the flyers, the Transvector is universally reviled: it doesn't really have a purpose, but might become useful in a year if the Skitarii range get expanded more (imagine dropping special weapon teams, etc.). The Stratoraptor is just okay; perfectly fine to play, but the math isn't great and it doesn't do anything special. The Fusilave is the best of the bunch and well regarded for its utility and output.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/21 05:57:45
DarkHound wrote: The math is good on every unit you've mentioned, in the right circumstances. It takes only a couple of seconds to check the math on units yourself. The trick is putting those units in those circumstances.
Two Data-hoard Breachers are the only thing that have placed well at tournaments, but those lists had little in common except the 25 Breachers. To be clear, we've just been discussing those tournament results the last couple pages. Go back further and you'll see we advocate all those other units too. Cawl with Ironstriders is the common thread of our theory crafting lately.
Part of AdMech's poor tournament showing has been that we're extremely dollar expensive per point and relatively difficult to play. Given the option, stronger players have gone with more accessible Space Marines. We'll see what changes as AdMech gets figured out.
On that note, the meta is going to shift faster than you can keep up with. It's better to build and play something you enjoy first. Your effort in practice and preparation is going to be more important than minor statistical differences. It isn't worth trying to build 25 Breachers if you quit out of boredom by the 15th, yeh?
For the flyers, the Transvector is universally reviled: it doesn't really have a purpose, but might become useful in a year if the Skitarii range get expanded more (imagine dropping special weapon teams, etc.). The Stratoraptor is just okay; perfectly fine to play, but the math isn't great and it doesn't do anything special. The Fusilave is the best of the bunch and well regarded for its utility and output.
Oh okay, i guess I didn't look back far enough haha. I wanted to be as *current* as possible. I understand. Yeah I see its really expensive, im still on the fence as to whether I want to start an admech or ork army haha. Admech have the coolest look though, probably going to go with them. Thanks for the info. Im pretty adaptable to play styles but playing a game where the conclusion is "oh, i lost because im admech." Or "oh, i lost because there's just no way to beat this army because these units are the worst my army has to offer" is no fun to me lol. Yeah Im starting with 1000 points. One quick question. Is sprinkling in a culexus assassin worth it for the anti psyker presence? I dont see anyone really doing it. Thanks for the info.
2020/09/21 16:27:59
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Yeah, AdMech is in a good spot where pretty much everything is workable for casual/narrative games. I'd say the worst units are Dragoons, Infiltrators, Kastellans with fists, and Transvectors. You could be more strict, but every other unit at least has an argument for being useful (though not all weapon loadouts are useful; looking at you, Dunecrawler).
Going by tournament and meta-analysis, AdMech is bumping around tier 2. As I said, most of our units are good, and if you put together exclusively the best stuff you can win events. The limiting factor is just that the truly tier 1 armies (Death Guard/Chaos Soup, Space Marines, Custodes) happen to be specialized for the demands of 9th edition. They've got extremely tough, versatile midfield brawlers with ObSec. It makes sense that AdMech's best tournament success have emulated those stat profiles.
I don't think a Culexus is necessary, as psykers are mostly punished by the Abhor the Witch secondary anyway. If you like the model and have CP to spare, it won't hurt you.
DarkHound wrote: Yeah, AdMech is in a good spot where pretty much everything is workable for casual/narrative games. I'd say the worst units are Dragoons, Infiltrators, Kastellans with fists, and Transvectors. You could be more strict, but every other unit at least has an argument for being useful (though not all weapon loadouts are useful; looking at you, Dunecrawler).
Going by tournament and meta-analysis, AdMech is bumping around tier 2. As I said, most of our units are good, and if you put together exclusively the best stuff you can win events. The limiting factor is just that the truly tier 1 armies (Death Guard/Chaos Soup, Space Marines, Custodes) happen to be specialized for the demands of 9th edition. They've got extremely tough, versatile midfield brawlers with ObSec. It makes sense that AdMech's best tournament success have emulated those stat profiles.
I don't think a Culexus is necessary, as psykers are mostly punished by the Abhor the Witch secondary anyway. If you like the model and have CP to spare, it won't hurt you.
yeah thats true I won't make it a huge point to include a cullexus then. If space marines/chaos/custodes seem to be tier 1 why are destroyers not taken as often? I feel like the grav weapon was made for 3+ AS units. Is it because theyre more fragile?
2020/09/21 18:37:44
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Grav Destroyers aren't bad at all, and there's not a lot of data yet on good AdMech lists. Before those two top 4 placements, it was hard to find the lists of AdMech players placing middle of the pack or lower at tournaments. The ones I did find were pretty bad; they looked like they were cobbled together from meager collections, rather than coherent competitive attempts. It's going to be a while yet before serious players put the time and effort into AdMech to show results.
Why weren't Grav Destroyers looked at from the get-go? They're more fragile, expensive, and bad in close combat. Breachers are better at actually being troops and holding objectives. The more of them you bring, the more incentivized you are to use the Custom Forgeworld, which in turn incentivizes more Breachers. Grav Destroyers are good at killing MEQ, but then again Breachers aren't bad either. By the time you have enough Breachers to do their primary job of holding objectives, you incidentally have enough anti-MEQ. Anything more is over-specializing.
To win an event, you need to beat every list, not just the top tiers. If you focus on T5 W3 3+, you'll get bent over by some infantry horde in round 2 and lose your chance for top placement. That's why repeated success is important, since lucky match-ups over 5 games do happen.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/21 18:44:46
Data Hoard Dominus, 2x Manipulii, with Genetor and Hermeticon WLT. 25 Breachers with 5+ exploding Heavy Arc Rifles, 5+++, reroll failed hits in Fighting. 3x Mortar Grators.
Stygies Raiders and Sterylizors. Probably to rush ahead and grab objectives, as well as immediately get Engage On All Fronts.
Two important points:
1) This list was designed for point-scoring efficiency, and I don't think he cared at all for the killing power of his units. He pretty much denies most secondaries while completing a specific set of them. Namely, the McGowan took Engage On All Fronts, Deploy Scramblers, and Assassinate in EVERY game he played.
2) Looking at the rest of the competition, and there are no ridiculous Gravis spam lists. The winner of the GT spammed Nurglings, Plaguebearers, Beasts of Nurgle, and a Bloodletter bomb. So pretty much the same strategy as McGowan, only he gets to scout deploy instead of scout move. He beat McGowan pretty soundly, 74-56. The problem with McGowan's strategy is that it has very poor killing power, so he probably could not remove the Nurglings in time to come back. (IMO, any strategy that pretty much auto-loses against scout deploy, which Space Marines and Death Guard have in spades, is problematic.) McGowan also only barely beat the third place Tyranid list 92-87.
Still, I think the lesson learned from this is that being able to score 80 and up consistently is extremely important.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/09/21 20:59:33
2020/09/22 10:50:51
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Heavy Support - 500 4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
Total: 2000 points 11 CP
The Corpuscarii got cut because this list just ferociously eats CP. Once I am out, they severely underperform. I replaced them with two more Plasma Vanguard with Omnispex (10 spare points). They ride in the Boat with the Fulgurites. Pack a good punch, are plenty cheap, and they have ObSec.
2020/09/22 13:34:44
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Vanguards are great so far (from my impressions). They're decently costed, not too flimsy with the easy to get 3+ on top of the 6++, and shoot great. Their number of shots and possibilities of doing 2D is great against a lot of target, save really big vehicles or 2+ units. Giving each squad one or two plasma guns is great to be able to shoot at what they usually cannot, like what I said earlier. I'm not playing without at least 4x5 Vanguards, and plan to run 6x5 when they'll be re-painted.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2020/09/22 17:42:00
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Ideasweasel wrote: Holy face melting plasma juice Suzuteo you must of had a fair few skittles sprues laying around lol.
All the vanguards!
I now want to call my skitarii skittles.
now i want to buy and paint a bunch of them with multicoloured cloaks in the colours of skittles with a big white S on them. i haven;t got the skillz to make it look good.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
2020/09/22 20:16:17
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Heavy Support - 500 4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
Total: 2000 points 11 CP
The Corpuscarii got cut because this list just ferociously eats CP. Once I am out, they severely underperform. I replaced them with two more Plasma Vanguard with Omnispex (10 spare points). They ride in the Boat with the Fulgurites. Pack a good punch, are plenty cheap, and they have ObSec.
Nice to see a vanguard list. what made you decide robots + ironstriders +destroyers instead of disintegrators + raiders+ flyer or sterilyzors? Do you find better performance from the shooting rather than even more mobile units?
2020/09/22 21:39:38
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
The only thing preventing me from spamming plasma vanguard like that is you only get 1 plasma per 10 dudes....and i really dont want Ork level numbers of vanguards lying around lol
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/09/22 22:12:56
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Patrol Detachment, Forge World Psalimit, Expansionist, Rugged Explorators [-2 CP] Manipulus, 70 [Monitor Malevolus; Omniscient Mask; -2 CP] 10 Ruststalkers, 140 10 Ruststalkers, 140 10 Vanguard, Data-tether, 95 (spare 10 points; if the tether saves even one check then it's worth it, but it's an extremely marginal upgrade) 10 Vanguard, Data-tether, 95 4 Raiders, 64 Dunecrawler, Icarus, 115 Dunecrawler, Icarus, 115 Archaeopter Fusilave, 130 964
I found that 30 Vanguard weren't doing that much damage, and usually only one squad actually uses their ObSec. I also started experimenting with Circuitous Assassins to huge success, and you get a lot more mileage with multiple squads. You can essentially pass a deployment by putting a group of Ruststalkers on a table edge, then capitalize on your opponent's reaction. Double Ruststalkers has really impressed me with their ability to hold primaries and score secondary objectives. Now I just need to convert another batch in real life (ugghh...).
I also dropped the Chaff Launcher off the Fusilave. It runs out of targets if it survives to the end game anyway, and it doesn't really degrade in output or utility if it gets beat up early. Plus you get the added bonus of jamming auras (even if that's very niche). There is a funny synergy with the Dunecrawler's data-tether. If the Dunecrawler is in the back, and the Fusilave flies within 3", then the Fusilave becomes Ld10 and projects that out 6" (plus the base).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/22 22:39:21
Esoteric wrote: Nice to see a vanguard list. what made you decide robots + ironstriders +destroyers instead of disintegrators + raiders+ flyer or sterilyzors? Do you find better performance from the shooting rather than even more mobile units?
I'm honestly a bit torn. Here is my dilemma:
A) Run Grators with mobile elements. Advantages in secondary scoring. But I lose the ability to come back if I go second; you can very easily fall behind on primaries and never catch up. Also, much weaker matchups, especially against Guard, which has the terrifying mix of tanks and fast ObSec troops.
B) Run Dakkabots, which forces me to build around them and play a much more static gunline with Grav Destroyers. Distinct disadvantages in secondary scoring, but if you screw up the positioning or get blown out early, you lose.
I went with B because it feels safer. There is never a meta where being able to reliably delete a large number of units early on is not an advantage. I don't feel like 9E plays anywhere close to as cagey as 8E. It's all about brute force efficiency, either in wounds output or durability. (The Breacher spam concept is definitely strong, but I fear it is not strong enough for Marines or DG.)
DarkHound wrote: It's funny that you dropped Priests for Vanguard. I went in the opposite direction and dropped Vanguard for more Ruststalkers.
I found that 30 Vanguard weren't doing that much damage, and usually only one squad actually uses their ObSec. I also started experimenting with Circuitous Assassins to huge success, and you get a lot more mileage with multiple squads. You can essentially pass a deployment by putting a group of Ruststalkers on a table edge, then capitalize on your opponent's reaction. Double Ruststalkers has really impressed me with their ability to hold primaries and score secondary objectives. Now I just need to convert another batch in real life (ugghh...).
I also dropped the Chaff Launcher off the Fusilave. It runs out of targets if it survives to the end game anyway, and it doesn't really degrade in output or utility if it gets beat up early. Plus you get the added bonus of jamming auras (even if that's very niche). There is a funny synergy with the Dunecrawler's data-tether. If the Dunecrawler is in the back, and the Fusilave flies within 3", then the Fusilave becomes Ld10 and projects that out 6" (plus the base).
Well, like I said, it boiled down to just running out of CP. Without Overcharge stratagem, Corpuscarii are pretty bad. But I have to feed my Dakkabots and my Fuglurites.
The annoying thing about Ruststalkers is that they use 40mm bases. I've only got 10 Infiltrators to proxy with.
People on FB and Reddit have been pushing for Stratoraptor spam. I personally think it's extremely output inefficient. Good luck trying to stop Nurglings with Poxwalker blobs backing them up...
One thing I think everyone needs to do more of is figure out a strike package for strategic reserves.
Here are some combinations that I have found especially good:
1CP: 3x5 Plasma Vanguard
2CP: 2x3 Grav Destroyers, Daedalosus
2CP: 3x5 Plasma Vanguard, 3x Grav Destroyers, Daedalosus
Outflank or deep strike them in, delete a unit.
2020/09/22 23:43:30
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Suzuteo wrote: The annoying thing about Ruststalkers is that they use 40mm bases. I've only got 10 Infiltrators to proxy with.
People on FB and Reddit have been pushing for Stratoraptor spam. I personally think it's extremely output inefficient. Good luck trying to stop Nurglings with Poxwalker blobs backing them up...
If you'd like, try running one or two squads of 5 Ruststalkers and aim to score Shadow Operations and/or Battlefield Supremacy with them. Just tuck them out of LoS in the corner of your opponent's deployment zone and start scoring Scramblers (or Teleport Homer if you're bold).
I've also heard people having success with Stratoraptors, but I would have to see that on the table. Even using Strafing Fire and Doctrina to buff multiple Raptors per turn, their numbers just okay. You can Mars canticle them to deal ~5 damage to T7 3+, or they can kill about 2 Gravis suits per turn. Obviously that's not bad, but it's not setting the world on fire either. Eh, actually a pair with Chaff launchers in a Cawl list would be obnoxious for scoring While We Stand and Engage on All Fronts. Maybe there is something to it.
Esoteric wrote: I wonder if the assault drill + fulgurites + daed could be a deadly combo for tanks/etc. I'd be willing to try it out
Making a 9" charge is a 54% chance with a CP re-roll. That's 300 points on a coin flip. I can justify my Ruststalkers trying to charge after Circuitous Assassins if they're already scoring Engage on All Fronts or Linebreaker anyway, because they only cost 140 points. Otherwise, I would never plan on a unit assaulting from off the board.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/23 00:05:20
Heavy Support - 450 1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Total: 1999 points 11 CP
As far as strike packages go, 3x Grav Destroyers and 3x5 Plasma Vanguard with Daedalosus is the most flexible combination. Good mix of anti-Marine firepower and ObSec bodies.
I could also do 2x3 Grav Destroyers and go up to 2x5 Raiders, but I'm afraid that I'd be sacrificing firepower for a bit more mass in what is ultimately a skirmishing unit. (I feel this build is light on firepower as it is... not sure what to do if I run into a list that's 50% Gravis, Nurgling/Poxwalkers, Breachers, etc.)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/23 01:11:44
2020/09/23 04:19:10
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Suzuteo wrote: The annoying thing about Ruststalkers is that they use 40mm bases. I've only got 10 Infiltrators to proxy with.
People on FB and Reddit have been pushing for Stratoraptor spam. I personally think it's extremely output inefficient. Good luck trying to stop Nurglings with Poxwalker blobs backing them up...
If you'd like, try running one or two squads of 5 Ruststalkers and aim to score Shadow Operations and/or Battlefield Supremacy with them. Just tuck them out of LoS in the corner of your opponent's deployment zone and start scoring Scramblers (or Teleport Homer if you're bold).
I've also heard people having success with Stratoraptors, but I would have to see that on the table. Even using Strafing Fire and Doctrina to buff multiple Raptors per turn, their numbers just okay. You can Mars canticle them to deal ~5 damage to T7 3+, or they can kill about 2 Gravis suits per turn. Obviously that's not bad, but it's not setting the world on fire either. Eh, actually a pair with Chaff launchers in a Cawl list would be obnoxious for scoring While We Stand and Engage on All Fronts. Maybe there is something to it.
Esoteric wrote: I wonder if the assault drill + fulgurites + daed could be a deadly combo for tanks/etc. I'd be willing to try it out
Making a 9" charge is a 54% chance with a CP re-roll. That's 300 points on a coin flip. I can justify my Ruststalkers trying to charge after Circuitous Assassins if they're already scoring Engage on All Fronts or Linebreaker anyway, because they only cost 140 points. Otherwise, I would never plan on a unit assaulting from off the board.
You're right, I think it'd be better used by 2 5 man vanguard squads with 2 plasmas and a Daedalosus.
2020/09/23 04:25:57
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Heavy Support - 450 1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon 1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon 1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Total: 1999 points 11 CP
As far as strike packages go, 3x Grav Destroyers and 3x5 Plasma Vanguard with Daedalosus is the most flexible combination. Good mix of anti-Marine firepower and ObSec bodies.
I could also do 2x3 Grav Destroyers and go up to 2x5 Raiders, but I'm afraid that I'd be sacrificing firepower for a bit more mass in what is ultimately a skirmishing unit. (I feel this build is light on firepower as it is... not sure what to do if I run into a list that's 50% Gravis, Nurgling/Poxwalkers, Breachers, etc.)
I think that list is better than your other one, but it might not stack up against the tournament meta. It's got a much better time scoring secondaries with Engage on All Fronts and While We Stand, but you're right: it is light on anti-Gravis. It'd be a great list if Phobos armour was the thing to beat, that's for sure.
I just don't know that Plasma spam and Belleros are the way to go. I think Ferrumite is going to serve you better; you jump your average Gravis kills from 0.9 to 1.5. You should also swap the outflanking units to 2x3 Grav Destroyers. With the Mars Canticle and Daedalosus, each Destroyer kills about 1 Gravis, so 6 kills a full Aggressor unit. You could even keep the third outflanking Vanguard squad to score secondaries.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/23 04:27:13
@DarkHound
That's a good point. Ferrumite just smashes Gravis.
But I just realized something looking at the Power Rating table: 9-12x Breachers is 20 PR. Which means it costs 3 CP to respawn a giant blob of Breachers. Now, 12 might be bad because of Blast concerns, but 10 is perfectly sufficient.
I could cut 4 Raiders and 2x5 Plasma Vanguard to squeeze in a second unit of Fulgurites and give the remaining Plasma Vanguard Omnispexes. Might be worth it, actually.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/23 10:47:46
2020/09/23 16:59:53
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Ah, that one feels like a case of 'because we can, not because we should'. The Breachers are sturdy ObSec, and they need to use both their shooting and melee profiles to get value. They only respawn in your deployment zone, so you give up their ObSec and melee. It's very unlikely they'll contribute to the game after respawning.
I'm also not sure where the Manipulus is going. He's not going to keep up with the Fulgerite's Dunerider, and he can't ride with them. If you did drop a Fulgerite to make space, he doesn't get his Movement aura since he isn't on the board at the start of the movement phase. Besides, you probably want the Agripinaa Dominus to be the Warlord for Genetor anyway.
I think the best use of Agripinaa is a block of 6 Grav Destroyers. If you're going to take Plasma, you should go Ryza. Grav Destroyers can at least contribute after their respawn. Of course, I still don't think that's very good.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts 
Watch Company Rho 1650pts
AdMech (Main army)
Black Templars (original army)
Death Guard (lazy side project)
Imperial Knights (extension of AdMech)
Harlequins (fun side project)
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
7500pts Necron Goldboys