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2020/09/23 19:34:26
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
That's true. Back in early 8E, when I tried Fresh Converts, it was mostly to respawn a shooting unit. But for the sake of argument, 10 Breachers with Eye of Xi Lexum is actually very good anti-vehicle.
Yeah, probably true that Manipulus would not do too much. It's like like a Solar Flare Dominus or anything.
I think 6 Grav Destroyers is too little. Sucks I cannot bump it up to 9 while staying under 20 Power. I feel like the rules writers could have done a better job here by at least looking at the codex and giving some of these Forge Worlds key units to build around.
Anyone got a good Lucius list?
2020/09/23 20:11:23
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Why strategic reserves aren’t points based, and gw insist on power level for GT play when nobody uses it is baffling. They need to just come up with a points counterpart and boom. Game much cleaner
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/23 20:13:28
2020/09/23 20:57:36
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
That would make too much sense. IMO though, if we want to make 40k a more competitive game, we would rebalance around 1200 points and have players bring a 600 point main army and two 300 point sideboards. You always deploy your main army, and one of your two blocks. This allows for sideboarding. Getting games to the 100 minute mark should be a priority.
Anyhow, here is a Lucius concept list I cooked up. I actually might try it IRL, since I have all of the pieces:
Spoiler:
Lucius Patrol Detachment
HQ - 135 [8] 1x Tech-priest Dominus [5] - Warlord, Learnings of the Genetor, Solar Flare
1x Daedalosus [3]
Agents of the Imperium - 60 [4] 1x Inquisitor [4] - Warding Incantation
Total: 1990 points [98] 12 CP
Basically, I spend 2 CP to put the Destroyers and Robots in reserve. Turn one is basically me blitzing my Fulgurites and Raiders to objectives while setting up a landing zone. Fusilave will harass and get Engage On All Fronts. Turn two, I bring down the hammer. Solar Flare into position, deep strike the Robots and Destroyers, root the Robots (optional), turn on Elimination Volley, blast everything off the table and charge.
EDIT: My friend pointed out that Grav Destroyers are a Mars thing, so I dropped the Callidus to upgrade the guns to Plasma Culverins.
Things I am not sure about:
1. Is it worth losing the Abhor the Witch option to take the Inquisitor to give the Destroyer block 5++ (which goes to 4++)? Would Coteaz be better?
2. Should I drop the Fusilave for a unit of Corpuscarii? CP costs are a bit of a concern.
3. I am really light on ObSec. Would it be worthwhile to bring just some plain Vanguard?
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/09/24 04:00:39
2020/09/26 01:26:40
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Until Grey Knights or Thousand Sons are meta relevant, I don't think you have to worry about Abhor the Witch. Most armies are going to have 1 or 2 Psykers maximum, which doesn't make Abhor worth taking.
I would not bother teleporting the Destroyers or Robots. If you do, then where are the Dominus, Inquisitor, and Daedalosus going? I guess you can hide the Dominus and Solar Flare him into position, but Daedalosus and the Inquisitor are SOL. They can't ride in any transports, and can't use the Lucius teleport. Your guns have 36" range, so you don't need to get much closer. What are you giving up a turn of shooting to really gain?
With regards to ObSec, I have never been impressed with random squads of 5 Vanguard for actually contributing to objectives. They're not cheap since you've got to pay for a transport to get them to an enemy's objective. If the Vanguard are an after thought, better just to plan on the Fulgerites killing all opposition to secure the objective. You are right, though, this list has a huge weakness against ObSec hordes.
I recently played a game with my Tyranids against a Knight and Admech list and wrote about it. I was told that Admech players would probably enjoy the read as well. So here you go:
Huh, that game was a surprise. I can't comment too much on the Tyranids, but the Knight/AdMech list is... suboptimal. I don't agree with a lot of his plays either, but he pulled it off in the end.
If I can offer criticism, he should swap from a Vanguard to a Spearhead. Obviously the X-101 isn't a real pick. The Servitors aren't doing much either; any points spent on them are generally better spent adding bodies to other squads. Infiltrators are probably the worst unit in the book right now too; another 5 Ptexarii do their job better and complete the Spearhead.
The Enginseer should take Monitor Malevolus: it costs 1CP to add the Warlord trait and generates a CP on a D6 roll of 6 after either player uses a strat. It essentially nets you 2 extra CP on average if you've got a spare character.
Then there's the question of whether Stygies is the right Forgeworld. Pretty much all of his infantry are deepstriking and assaulting, rendering the Dogma and stratagem moot. The Ironstriders have a huge range and really don't need to move forward, so the stratagem is of minimal value to them. I'd say he's better off going Data-hoard with Cognis weapons bonus. It's defensively similar to Stygies, but with a massive damage increase.
I also run split Knights. I like that he's running 3 Warglaives: it gives him the opportunity to maximize Pack Tactics. I strongly dislike his Warden, though. The Thunderstrike Gauntlet is a damage decrease in all cases except against T8 targets. If he wants to run Landstrider+Sanctuary, he's probably better off with a Gallant. If he wants to keep a gun, he should probably take a Preceptor and use Helm of Dominatus since he has so many Armigers.
If he cleans it up, I actually like the list quite a bit. Decent assault threats in the Warglaives and Knight, solid backfield firepower in the Ironstriders and Helverins, plus some board presence and Shadow Operations opportunity from the infantry.
@DarkHound
Nids and various Chaos armies have enough Psykers to merit Abhorring.
But yeah, Lucius is an interesting list, but a durable list oftentimes just means you will have lots of units left over on the table when you lose. Lol.
In competitive terms, I still think pure Mars is the best army. I have been looking into more flexible and mobile builds:
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion Detachment
HQ - 290 1x Belisarius Cawl - Static Psalm-Code (-1 CP)
1x Tech-priest Enginseer - Warlord, Divinations of the Magos, Raiment of the Technomartyr
1x Daedalosus
EDIT: So this idea bombed pretty hard. One downside to outflanking so many units is that they may be too far away from the midboard to help effectuate a comeback. So I guess I need to bring some ObSec with my Fulgurites. I revised the list with this in mind. Also, Raiders are pretty damn important.
You are right about the Boats being a problem though. Unless I am doing a Rad-saturated build, where the Boats are needed to block for a horde of Skitarii, I would be better served using strategic reserves to outflank my glass cannon infantry. For this, the most devastating 3 CP strike package I could come up with is Daeadlosus + 2x3 Grav Destroyers + 4x5 Plasma Vanguard; just drop them in one or two locations and delete units. A less specialized alternative are 4x3 Destroyers. The points freed up by this go into Raiders, which fill the role that Boats used to hold after disgorging their troops.
Only Boat I am keeping protects my Fulgurites. I have seen games with Raiders + Boat with Fulgurites inside, and the tricks are insane.
I also think I should give Ferrumite a shot. I mean, Autocannons and Belleros oftentimes feel like they're doing the same job. Ferrumite is great for W3 targets, including Gravis and Breachers. They also are great for dueling Guard tanks.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/09/27 07:58:33
2020/09/27 04:12:04
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Just for the fun of it, here's my current intended list, still in the works as I paint up my models, but I think this would be the general idea of the final version of a competitive build:
Spoiler:
Patrol Detachment - Forge World: Lucius. 0CP
HQ: Tech Priest Dominus - Warlord, Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber, The Solar Flare, Divination of the Magos.
I might swap the Lucius detachment to something else and drop the Destroyers for another Heavy choice or the whatnot. I do like that I can essentially teleport in the Dakkabots, Priests, and Destroyers depending on the game, while positioning the Dominus with them as needed by means of Solar Flare. Still a rather early first draft but I think it's on the right path.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/27 04:15:32
Techpriest_ wrote: Just for the fun of it, here's my current intended list, still in the works as I paint up my models, but I think this would be the general idea of the final version of a competitive build:
Spoiler:
Patrol Detachment - Forge World: Lucius. 0CP
HQ: Tech Priest Dominus - Warlord, Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber, The Solar Flare, Divination of the Magos.
I might swap the Lucius detachment to something else and drop the Destroyers for another Heavy choice or the whatnot. I do like that I can essentially teleport in the Dakkabots, Priests, and Destroyers depending on the game, while positioning the Dominus with them as needed by means of Solar Flare. Still a rather early first draft but I think it's on the right path.
You've got 3 huge inefficiencies before we even talk about unit choices. Firstly, if you're going to spam Breachers then they're begging to take Learnings of the Genetor. To do that, you need to make the Data-hoard detachment have your Warlord, which coincidentally solves your second inefficiency: it saves you a CP in detachment costs.
You're doing both to get the Lucius canticle, but it's not worth it. Increasing a 6++ to a 5++ is only a tiny amount better than adding a 6+++ through Data-hoard. That's the Ironstriders out. The Robots already have a 4++ a lot of the time. The Dunecrawler is okay, but nothing you should bend over backwards to support. So ultimately you're just helping the the Destroyers and Corpuscarii (and sometimes the Robots). That's already not a lot of benefit, and what's worse is you're not getting blanket coverage: the turn you pop that buff, they'll just fire their anti-tank guns at the Breachers to great effect instead.
You'd be best off saving 3CP and putting everything in the Data-hoard Battalion. Just reserve the Corpuscarii instead of Deepstriking them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/27 17:17:56
Techpriest_ wrote: Just for the fun of it, here's my current intended list, still in the works as I paint up my models, but I think this would be the general idea of the final version of a competitive build:
Spoiler:
Patrol Detachment - Forge World: Lucius. 0CP
HQ: Tech Priest Dominus - Warlord, Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber, The Solar Flare, Divination of the Magos.
I might swap the Lucius detachment to something else and drop the Destroyers for another Heavy choice or the whatnot. I do like that I can essentially teleport in the Dakkabots, Priests, and Destroyers depending on the game, while positioning the Dominus with them as needed by means of Solar Flare. Still a rather early first draft but I think it's on the right path.
You've got 3 huge inefficiencies before we even talk about unit choices. Firstly, if you're going to spam Breachers then they're begging to take Learnings of the Genetor. To do that, you need to make the Data-hoard detachment have your Warlord, which coincidentally solves your second inefficiency: it saves you a CP in detachment costs.
You're doing both to get the Lucius canticle, but it's not worth it. Increasing a 6++ to a 5++ is only a tiny amount better than adding a 6+++ through Data-hoard. That's the Ironstriders out. The Robots already have a 4++ a lot of the time. The Dunecrawler is okay, but nothing you should bend over backwards to support. So ultimately you're just helping the the Destroyers and Corpuscarii (and sometimes the Robots). That's already not a lot of benefit, and what's worse is you're not getting blanket coverage: the turn you pop that buff, they'll just fire their anti-tank guns at the Breachers to great effect instead.
You'd be best off saving 3CP and putting everything in the Data-hoard Battalion. Just reserve the Corpuscarii instead of Deepstriking them.
While I think those are valid points, to an extent, a few counter points should be raised.
The first being that the Lucius Canticle actually works with the Bots despite them being in Aegis Protocol. This is something I missed initially as well, but the way the ability is worded is that it modifies the roll, not the save. In that the Bots always have a 5++ but in Aegis Protocol you add +1 to the roll, so with the canticle they actually go to a 4++ and gain +1 to the roll, giving them a 3++ save effectively. It's a bit of hidden utility.
The second thing would be that Legio Teleportarium isn't just for the Priests, but also the Dakkabots and Destroyers which I don't really like taking unless I have something like that. Sometimes you can deploy them on the table, but being able to keep them safe until you're ready to drop them in and get full effect off of them is critical. Strategic Reserves are more limiting in positioning and would be 2CP for the Dakkabots, but only 1 for the Destroyers and Priests after the Power Level updates I believe. There will probably be situations where the Ironstriders can be ported as well. In those cases the Solar Flare also helps as being able to port in bots, root them, then blink the Magos to them for 36 shots would give you 24 hits on average assuming you're not using the Bot-Destroyer stratagem. I originally also had three Bots but dropped it down to fit in other units.
I could see going a few directions with this though, I could drop the Bots and Destroyers, and swap to Mars or Stygies, depending on which artillery or screening units I want to go with. I don't really see going pure Data-Horde though, but maybe making them the Warlord group to save 1CP and give the Breachers the Feel No Pain buff. I could also drop some other picks and go heavier on the Bots for a bigger teleport bomb, maybe the Ironstriders are redundant for example, or the Fusilave isn't as useful.
That's true about the Bots getting to 3++. My point still stands that whenever you use the canticle, its recipients aren't threatening enough to warrant your opponent shoot at them anyway. Your opponent is already incentivized to shoot at your Breachers, since they're the thing that's going to win the game.
The way to think about it is Magos exploding 6s is essentially +1 to hit. Genetor's 5++ FnP is essentially +1 wound on the Breachers. If you're running Breacher spam, then your game plan is necessarily to wade into the midfield and sit on objectives. You need to be buffing some serious firepower before the Magos buff outperforms Genetor in these lists.
You're probably right, and looking at the data it does confirm that most who have placed with Breacher Spam did go for Learnings. That being said I do want to try this and refine it from that point.
Maybe I will ultimately go with Data-Horde main and Stygies for artillery support units, dumping the priests and bots. Then again I could also cut down the Breachers to three squads in a Patrol and make the Lucias more prevalent by taking on more bots and priests. There are a few ways of going forward after testing.
If you are doing Lucius, bring Destroyers, not Breachers. You can bring a Malleus Inquisitor to give your Destroyers 5++, which Lucius bumps to 4++. This is a very respectable save.
I also personally think that if you are running Lucius, you need to run 50% of your army as assault and the other 50% as a giant deep strike bomb.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/28 01:58:31
2020/09/29 04:19:13
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
U02dah4 wrote: I'm trying with an IK list with a Raider escort- what do we think are the best forgeworld options for raiders?
If it's just pure Raiders, Metalica. Metalica dogma lets you advance and shoot without penalty. Metalica Canticle gives you -1 to hit within 9" (for both fighting and shooting).
2020/09/30 11:23:23
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
U02dah4 wrote: I'm trying with an IK list with a Raider escort- what do we think are the best forgeworld options for raiders?
If it's just pure Raiders, Metalica. Metalica dogma lets you advance and shoot without penalty. Metalica Canticle gives you -1 to hit within 9" (for both fighting and shooting).
Or the custom expansionist accelerated actuators and rugged explorers, which gives you the same ignoring of advance for assault weapons but also gives you an additional -1 ap in melee if you charge or are charged.
2020/09/30 18:03:31
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Yeah, I run that Explorators dogma and I'll vouch for it. You can't get the canticle, since a Knight needs to be your Warlord. If you don't absolutely need a Holy Order trait or Forgeworld canticle (usually because you're allied and both affect fewer models), then the custom Forgeworld dogmas can often be stronger.
For Raiders specifically, the AP-1 doesn't make them a good melee unit, but it does make them a great bully. They're much faster at killing random Guardsmen squads on objectives.
In tournament news, it looks like AdMech is suddenly placing top 4 all over the place. Pretty much everybody's got a core of Breachers and Raiders with a couple Dunecrawlers, Bots, or Disintegrators. Interestingly, nobody's gone in on Ironstriders yet.
Surprisingly, Jason McKenzie’s 4th Place at Red Rock looks like a conventional Mars castle.
Skorpius Disintegrator [8 PL, 150pts]: Belleros Energy Cannon [20pts], Broad Spectrum Data-tether, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber [15pts], Disruptor Missile Launcher
++ Total: [102 PL, 8CP, 1,998pts] ++
He went with Magos over Genetor, and only 9 Breachers. I suppose those Breachers and 15 Raiders is still 72 wounds to remove in the midfield. And that's a lot of tough vehicles to remove in the backfield.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/30 18:04:59
Pretty much everybody's got a core of Breachers and Raiders with a couple Dunecrawlers, Bots, or Disintegrators. Interestingly, nobody's gone in on Ironstriders yet.
yeah i dont think we've seen a top placing running the 5-6 auto chickens unless im wrong. The 5-1 list at iron halo had 3 lascannon ones and he said they were good for him.
Where is your saviour now?
"War is an act of force, and there are no limitations to the application of that force" - Clausewitz
2020/09/30 20:58:25
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
It looks like the very first Robot list I made this edition. Only I didn't have Raiders at the time, and so I was still using Hoplites in Boats.
Interesting how it adds a Patrol detachment for extra tanks instead of going with the Ballistarii.
Also, Chorister Technis instead of Daedalosus? Weird.
I have found that many of the top lists don't really invest as much in melee. Instead, they seem to be investing in either Breachers that are difficult to surround as a group or Raiders, which are okay in combat and even better at avoiding being charged.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/30 22:30:34
2020/10/01 13:18:19
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I've got a game planned on Saturday, and I'm thinking going with a more agressive list than usual. I don't own Raiders or Duneriders or Hoplites so it'll be agressive vehicles
The idea is to have the Manipulus, Dragoons, Robots and Datasmith all together, boost their speed, and reroll charges with the Magos trait. Depending on the disposition of the enemy army and other details I'll probably start with the Lucius Canticle turn 1 to have 3++ Robots and 5++ Dragoons with -1 to be hit right in the middle of the board to block the access to objectives early on with the sheer size of the bases. The Datasmith is there to try and keep the Robots alive longer, with 1CP I can give 2-5 wounds back. Following them will be a few squads of Vanguards to secure the objectives for turn 2.
On the other side of the board I'll have my firing line with the Dominus, Daedalosus, Enginseer, Ironstriders and Onagers to eliminate threats from a distance. With the +1 to hit from Daedalosus and the reroll 1s from the Dominus it's essentially the same results as Cawl's rerolls. The rest of the Vanguards will screen and hold objectives on my side of the board.
I chose Chorister Technis because I'll want to have the Lucius Canticle up as often as I can. 4++ Onagers, 3++ Robots, and 5++ Ironstriders/Dragoons will be tough to crack. With the ignore AP-1 trait and a 5++ even Vanguards should hold their own respectably.
I'm thinking about dropping the Rangers entirely as well as a few elements to include an Assassin, either an Eversor or Callidus. I also own a Culexus but while it's a very cool model it rarely was useful. Now that for 2CP we can choose during deployment I'm considering this option, as I don't know which army I'll face. An Eversor to jump into the fray and tank a while (he can have a 4+++ on top of his 4++) while killing infantry sounds appealing.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2020/10/01 17:05:57
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Aaranis wrote: I've got a game planned on Saturday, and I'm thinking going with a more agressive list than usual. I don't own Raiders or Duneriders or Hoplites so it'll be agressive vehicles
The idea is to have the Manipulus, Dragoons, Robots and Datasmith all together, boost their speed, and reroll charges with the Magos trait. Depending on the disposition of the enemy army and other details I'll probably start with the Lucius Canticle turn 1 to have 3++ Robots and 5++ Dragoons with -1 to be hit right in the middle of the board to block the access to objectives early on with the sheer size of the bases. The Datasmith is there to try and keep the Robots alive longer, with 1CP I can give 2-5 wounds back. Following them will be a few squads of Vanguards to secure the objectives for turn 2.
On the other side of the board I'll have my firing line with the Dominus, Daedalosus, Enginseer, Ironstriders and Onagers to eliminate threats from a distance. With the +1 to hit from Daedalosus and the reroll 1s from the Dominus it's essentially the same results as Cawl's rerolls. The rest of the Vanguards will screen and hold objectives on my side of the board.
I chose Chorister Technis because I'll want to have the Lucius Canticle up as often as I can. 4++ Onagers, 3++ Robots, and 5++ Ironstriders/Dragoons will be tough to crack. With the ignore AP-1 trait and a 5++ even Vanguards should hold their own respectably.
I'm thinking about dropping the Rangers entirely as well as a few elements to include an Assassin, either an Eversor or Callidus. I also own a Culexus but while it's a very cool model it rarely was useful. Now that for 2CP we can choose during deployment I'm considering this option, as I don't know which army I'll face. An Eversor to jump into the fray and tank a while (he can have a 4+++ on top of his 4++) while killing infantry sounds appealing.
Off the bat, you've got 4 HQ choices and only 3 slots. Within that, your Manipulus needs to be marked as the Warlord to take Magos (only because the FAQ specifically says so).
The math on Chorister just isn't good. You've got a 31.11% chance to hit your target canticle. If you choose the Lucius canticle one turn, choose no other canticles, and re-roll exclusively for Lucius, then you've still only got an 78% chance to hit Lucius once over 4 turns. If you're already spending a CP for Chorister, then just spend one more CP and choose Lucius when you need it.
The Datasmith isn't any better at repairing Robots than the Manipulus. Once the Robots in range to switch from Aegis to Conqueror, they'll probably keep fighting and won't need to switch back. I say just drop the Data-smith.
I also don't think Daedalosus will get much use in the backfield. That 24" range on his buff is going to be a pretty tight leash, especially if you want to target your opponent's backfield. Same thing with Enginseer, he's not really contributing. I'd also switch the Dominus' relic to Raiment of the Technomartyr. You don't have anything to stop charges into your backline, but the Raiment makes the Ironstriders' cognis overwatch pretty nasty. Much more useful than 0.25 extra wounds repaired. On that note, you should combine your Ironstriders into a 6 man unit so you get more value out of applied stratagems. If you dislike the coherency rules, then drop an autocannon Strider for a unit of 5.
The 5 Rangers probably aren't going to do much since you have 2 Dunecrawlers to camp objectives. With those points saved, it's probably easiest to add more Vanguard and special weapons. I don't know what models you have available. You could probably stand to bring more Dragoons.
Yeah I felt something was wrong with the number of HQ, for some reason I confused it with the Brigade slots I guess. Yes Daedalosus won't be useful for long range shooting but I expect things to get in my face pretty quick, so I thought it would be nice to have, he's not that expensive and the d3 MWs he can throw once a game saved me the other day.
Huh I thought it was the other way for the Magos trait, it makes it less appealing to have my WL mid-field then. However as Slay the Warlord is a choice to pick now I'm less concerned about losing him.
Well I like those chances to get the Canticle I want to be honest, it's better than having to spend 2CP each turn to change them I think. This is a really experimental list so it's no biggie if things don't work
The Datasmith is a fighter that surprised me before with his Powerfist, and can heal the Kastelans while the Manipulus heals the Dragoons. I agree he's not a competitive pick but that's 1CP saved for the protocols and I like the flexibility it gives me, sometimes they last quite long in game depending on the army I face so being able to shoot later is good.
Good advice with the Raiment, it's sensible. I usually screen with a line or two of Vanguards depending on the deployment and try to stall the chargers long enough to shoot them afterwards. Given that we now can shoot in melee with Vehicles I'm not too scared about them getting engaged. Either they're destroyed on the charge or either the charging unit gets blasted at point blank. I'm a big fan of the repair twice stratagem and the Autocaduceus allows me usually to enhance a bad roll to give the vehicle a true repair. I might even use the Necromechanic trait to repair even more, I need my vehicles to last in this list.
Agree on the Rangers, hence why I wanted to change that. I like 2 units of snipers with Omnispex but I need more presence on the field so I'll probably swap for a 6th unit of Vanguards. Model-wise I can do 6x5 with 3 additional plasmas. I don't have more Dragoons and the Ironstriders are all I have too.
This is my problem with list building at 2000 pts, if I'm doing anything else than Mars I start to be short on models and the list loses focus. Other than what's in the list I got one more Onager, 3 Dakkastelans, 2x5 Infiltrators (one unit swords the other tasers), 5 Fulgurites, more Rangers, Cawl. I really need to buy myself two Start Collecting to get two transports and build Hoplites.
Any opinion on Assassins ?
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2020/10/01 20:34:11
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Aaranis wrote: Well I like those chances to get the Canticle I want to be honest, it's better than having to spend 2CP each turn to change them I think. This is a really experimental list so it's no biggie if things don't work
I'm a big fan of the repair twice stratagem and the Autocaduceus allows me usually to enhance a bad roll to give the vehicle a true repair. I might even use the Necromechanic trait to repair even more, I need my vehicles to last in this list.
This is my problem with list building at 2000 pts, if I'm doing anything else than Mars I start to be short on models and the list loses focus. Other than what's in the list I got one more Onager, 3 Dakkastelans, 2x5 Infiltrators (one unit swords the other tasers), 5 Fulgurites, more Rangers, Cawl. I really need to buy myself two Start Collecting to get two transports and build Hoplites.
Any opinion on Assassins ?
For the Canticles, you don't even need Lucius active every turn and Divine Chorus can only be used once. You can't know when (or even if) Chorister will give you Lucius, so it might proc on turn 5 when nothing matters. You'll get better results if you plan out when to use your canticles. Shroudpsalm is better for every unit except the Bots against anything short of AP3. Lucius is going to be better in very particular situations, so you need to be able to apply it on demand.
Same issue with the Autocaduceus. It makes the low-end roll happen less, but doesn't improve the average very much (2 vs 2.33). The Necromechanic isn't terrible, but there's just so many other better choices first. If you're going to spend a CP for better repairs, though, Necromechanic is an actual improvement unlike Autocaduceus.
If you've got more bodies, I'd use them. Take 30 Vanguard and another 10-20 Rangers. You need more scoring bodies to follow up with those Bots and Dragoons.
I don't put that much stock in Assassins, but you've got plenty of CP to spare so why not?
People are really big on Lucius for the durability bonus from the Canticle, but honestly, being able to deep strike big bomb units and teleport your WL to them is still the best reason why you should run them. Especially with the HO WLTs.
Things I have learn from mathing out Lucius:
1. Plasma Destroyers are amazing in Lucius. With a Malleus Inquistor, they have 4++, which makes them just as durable as Breachers in most circumstances.
2. Dakkabots AND Destroyers are even more amazing. Deep strike, hit on 3+, RR1, exploding 6s. Mix of S8 AP3 D2, S5 AP1, and S6 AP2 shots. What else more could you want?
3. The rest of your list should pretty much be Fulgurites in Boats.
2020/10/02 02:08:18
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Suzuteo wrote: People are really big on Lucius for the durability bonus from the Canticle, but honestly, being able to deep strike big bomb units and teleport your WL to them is still the best reason why you should run them. Especially with the HO WLTs.
Things I have learn from mathing out Lucius:
1. Plasma Destroyers are amazing in Lucius. With a Malleus Inquistor, they have 4++, which makes them just as durable as Breachers in most circumstances.
2. Dakkabots AND Destroyers are even more amazing. Deep strike, hit on 3+, RR1, exploding 6s. Mix of S8 AP3 D2, S5 AP1, and S6 AP2 shots. What else more could you want?
3. The rest of your list should pretty much be Fulgurites in Boats.
Yeah the ability to deepstrike anything we want is big. I used to love my Fistelans in Lucius with the Cybernetica Cohort as I could do 6" charges from Deepstrike and that was really great.
I don't have Kataphrons anymore (and don't plan on having any) however I agree, Plasma Destroyers were always very good.
Uuh this army is giving me a headache. Every edition I lack the models that are the best. You'll see, if I grab Duneriders and Hoplites/more Fulgurites they'll find a way to nerf them. Same for Raiders.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2020/10/02 14:52:46
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
It's less a matter of playing the good units, and more playing your units in the best way you can. Fortunately, our worst units aren't outright bad, merely worse than other options. So you've got a bunch of Vanguard, Ironstriders, Robots, and Dunecrawlers. All of those are really good, you just need to use the rules that compliment them.
Honestly, your Lucius list looks like it would play similarly to my AdMech+Knights. Here's my take on optimizing it:
Sure, if you had the models the list would be improved by 5-10 Raiders, but this isn't at all bad. I think the army could be strong as either Lucius or Mars. 3 Dakkabots, 6 Ironstriders, and a Dunecrawler is plenty of firepower. The Fistellans and Dragoons can clear objectives, the latter are relatively fast and can get board control. The Manipulus is veratile: depending on the match-up, you can speed up the assault units or boost the shooting units, and you can Solar Flare between the two.
30 scoring infantry isn't a lot, but you can reserve and teleport them. I broke them into those squads so you could reserve 15 and teleport 10 for 2CP. With the infantry off the table, you just present a lot of T6/7 with a lot of defensive buffs. You could probably score Attrition pretty reliably.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/02 15:02:09
Thanks for the list, I really appreciate the advice. I had written another list yesterday, I spent a bit of time hesitating between a plain Mars list and a Lucius list but I'll settle on Lucius anyway, I really want to test the durability. However I followed your advice from then and included more infantry, I've never played that much infantry and I think it'll be fun:
I start with 6CP, have 63 models on the table and 142 wounds. I just have to find a relic to use, might go with the Raiment or the +1CP Graia relic.
The strategy is to have a firebase made of the Tech-Priests, Ballistarii and Dakkabots that can move slowly if needed. If it can stay immobile I can boost the range, use Artisan and shoot at +1AP at 27" for the Ballistarii and 21" for the Dakkabots. If the range is right, I'll try to coordinate the Dakkabots with Daedalosus to mitigate the 4+ to Hit, along with the reroll 1s from Dominus.
I have so many infantry that I can safely screen the firebase from most deep-strike attempts, and afford to move a bit up the board if needed and leave some Skitarii to hold my objectives. Those with plasma will go up the board.
The Fistelans are going up the mid-board, followed by the Datasmith, which will activate the Protector Protocol for round 2. The idea being to be a big roadblock with a 4++ or 3++ turn 1, and round two if he wants my objective he'll need to eat twice my Overwatch. It can also act as a killzone of 24" diameter with 8d6 S5 AP-1 shots if he doesn't take care of them first. If the situation doesn't need all that of course I'll just switch to another protocol and see what's needed in the moment. If I need to punch some Gravis, Conqueror will be perfect.
I'll confess I've always been wary/skeptical/paranoid with regards to Reserves, and can't seem to plan around it. I don't like the idea of having important elements arriving later in the game. If they're shooty, it means one round of shooting lost, if they're punchy, it means a 9" charge and having a good landing zone. Also: interception stratagems. Plus the new anti-deepstrike within 12" rules from the whatever Marines. Having less targets on the table also means the opponent have less threat saturation on first turn and will focus fire more surely. I'd love to be able to use Reserves though, I'm just too scared or uninformed to do so.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys