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I took a 40k break shortly after the release of 6e. Well I just went to the GW website and I am thoroughly confused. When did they start releasing bucketloads of new stuff apparently every week? There's like a million new models and two million new codices, I'm not exaggerating at all, literally billions of new things. BILLIONS. And everything costs like $4,000 a model. WTF?

Seriously though, my actual question is this: With all the new content, apparently boatloads, since the release of 6e, they must have been really churning these books out, without having to go through every tactics thread regarding the new codices; are the new rules/codices/armies well designed and functional, or are they OP buy more models now madness garbage?

They aren't brilliantly well designed, TBH.

There are a lot of balance issues with the recent codexes, and the Escalation and Fortress (IDK the right name) books are a serious problem too. (So are Fliers and Allies, for similar reasons.)

It's one of the big topics of discussion ATM. There is a mini culture war between people who love Escalation and want more of it, and people who prefer it to remain an optional extra.

Models are a good thing IMO.

inb4 Taudar* are OP.
(Taudar = Tau + Eldar allies).

Tau and Eldar seem to be the top dogs right now, mainly because of 2-3 underpriced units that go REALLY well with 6th edition.

Restructuring.

Models are now designed by CAD.

Books, dataslates, and supplements are digitally released.

All this made it possible to release buckloads of new stuff in no time.

 junk wrote:
I took a 40k break shortly after the release of 6e. Well I just went to the GW website and I am thoroughly confused. When did they start releasing bucketloads of new stuff apparently every week? There's like a million new models and two million new codices, I'm not exaggerating at all, literally billions of new things. BILLIONS. And everything costs like $4,000 a model. WTF?

Seriously though, my actual question is this: With all the new content, apparently boatloads, since the release of 6e, they must have been really churning these books out, without having to go through every tactics thread regarding the new codices; are the new rules/codices/armies well designed and functional, or are they OP buy more models now madness garbage?

The main ones that people dont want in their NORMAL games are Escalation and Stronghold Assault. My experience with the rest of it is that i dont really care. Lol. Most of it is "fine" and feels like normal 40K.

The big big diff is the Codex: Imperial Knights. just did a blog on that one you can check out. But its the first ACTUAL new codex in quite a while and the models are utterly bad ass. the knuights tend to be as hard to kill as Wave Serpents (basically). The only diff is that glancing them to death isn't really a great strategy. but penning them works like any other vehicle so one good hit will take them out. The army kinda needs to go first because some armies are especially good at killing them and sneaky armies that like to get behind you can end an Imperial Knight.

the bases on thsioe things is huge.

Anyways, im off the subject. the cascade of stuff isn't too bad but Escalation and Stronghold are just not awesome and have caused a REAL serious rift in the community.

wuestenfux wrote:Models are now designed by CAD.

Books, dataslates, and supplements are digitally released.

All this made it possible to release buckloads of new stuff in no time.

Mostly this.

And because they've been throwing so much content in all at once in their usual haphazard way, the new stuff isn't fitting together all that well, whether it be new armies, new classes of units, or even just new units in old codices.

Things are so badly disjointed at the moment that we're going to get a new version of the rulebook less than two years after the last one.

 junk wrote:
OP buy more models now madness garbage?

More this than anything else.

Some are better than others, but the general trend isn't exactly filling me with warm fuzzlies.

The Nid codex isn't as strong as say Eldar and Tau, but it didn't do a good job at addressing the issues with the last codex, just as one example.

 junk wrote:
Seriously though, my actual question is this: With all the new content, apparently boatloads, since the release of 6e, they must have been really churning these books out, without having to go through every tactics thread regarding the new codices; are the new rules/codices/armies well designed and functional, or are they OP buy more models now madness garbage?

It's "buy more now" madness. GW is in financial trouble and doesn't have much ability to innovate and create new material, so they're left with desperately trying to extract as much money as they can from what they already have. So you have "codices" like inquisition/legion of the damned/knights where a single unit gets an entire $50 book. And of course with the knights they've managed to turn it into two books by making a codex and a separate fluff book dedicated to the single unit. Similarly, GW published Apocalypse and then published Escalation as a separate book to buy, even though Escalation consists of little more than "you can play with your Apocalypse stuff in normal 40k" and could have been reduced to a single page in the Apocalypse rulebook. And very little thought has gone into these new releases, Escalation is an unbalanced trainwreck, inquisition gives all Imperial armies Coteaz and 50-point divination psykers as battle brothers, etc.

Its awesome. Don't let the neysayers convince you otherwise.

There are op Units but tournies are not compensating with sportsmanship and painting point buffs so people bring dick lists and then act surprised when the event blows.

New books are awesome, sixth got rid of space marine BS from fifth. Huge variety now in builds and armies.

Oh, the other thing I'd note as well is that GW is responding to demand. You don't have to be a marketing genius to see forgeworld selling an increasing number of superheavies and see that it would make sense to sell a kit for it in plastic.

Also, people have been demanding a new army for years, and demanding more fluff, and, until recently, were fondly remembering the days of supplemental codices, and were, until recently, crabbing about how slowly GW churned through the codex cycle.

Really, they're just giving people what they want.

 Ailaros wrote:
Oh, the other thing I'd note as well is that GW is responding to demand. You don't have to be a marketing genius to see forgeworld selling an increasing number of superheavies and see that it would make sense to sell a kit for it in plastic.

Also, people have been demanding a new army for years, and demanding more fluff, and, until recently, were fondly remembering the days of supplemental codices, and were, until recently, crabbing about how slowly GW churned through the codex cycle.

Really, they're just giving people what they want.

The sad part is that we're getting a lot of what we wanted, just in the worst way possible.

It's like seeing the waiter walking up with a juicy T Bone steak, only for him to trip and drop it in the toilet on the way to your seat, and then you find out it was badly charred.

Then the waiter tells you that will be $50.

There is also the Horus Heresy series which is pretty good!

People wanted faster rules releases. Games Workshop heeded this just a little too much.

 junk wrote:
are the new rules/codices/armies well designed and functional?

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA


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 Ailaros wrote:
Oh, the other thing I'd note as well is that GW is responding to demand. You don't have to be a marketing genius to see forgeworld selling an increasing number of superheavies and see that it would make sense to sell a kit for it in plastic.

Also, people have been demanding a new army for years, and demanding more fluff, and, until recently, were fondly remembering the days of supplemental codices, and were, until recently, crabbing about how slowly GW churned through the codex cycle.

Really, they're just giving people what they want.

I asked for balanced armies and well thought out rules. So they are definatley not giving all the people what they want. And they came out and said they are a model company, and those models is what sells them to customers (sure gw, no trends towards op units) and that its forging a narrative. Meanwhile people looking for a balanced fun game are forced to start searching elsewhere, because they have blown their metaphorical load all over balance with stronghold/escalation/op flyers/allies/dataslates/horrible handling of meelee to shooting balance too much to salvage this train wreck. People act surprised to hear rumors on 7th edition. But I imagine their actual sales quantities (not dollar per ticket) gave them a big red warning sign that they are scrambling to correct.

I'll try to some a few things up.

These are the current codices and their supplements/dataslates.

Codex Space Marines (6th)
Supplement Clan Raukaan (6th) (Digital only)
Supplement Sentinels of Terra (6th)
Mini Codex Legion of the Damned (6th) (Digital only)
Codex Dark Angels (6th)
Codex Blood Angels (5th)
Codex Space Wolves (5th)
Dataslate Adeptus Astartes Storm Wing (6th) (Digital only)
Dataslate Reclusiam Command Squad (6th) (Digital only)
Dataslate Centurion Siegebreaker Cohort (6th) (Digital only)
Dataslate Tyrannic War Veterans (6th) (Digital only)

Codex Grey Knights (5th)
Codex Adepta Sororitas (6th) (Digital only)
Mini Codex Inquisition (6th) (Digital only)
Codex Imperial Guard (5th)
Mini Codex Imperial Knights (6th)

Codex Chaos Space Marines (6th)
Supplement Black Legion (6th)
Supplement Crimson Slaughter (6th) (Not yet released)
Codex Chaos Daemons (6th)
Dataslate Be'Lakor, The Dark Master (6th) (Digital only)
Dataslate Cypher, Lord of the Fallen (6th) (Digital only)

Codex Tau (6th)
Supplement Farsight Enclaves (6th)
Dataslate Tau Firebase Support Cadre (6th) (Digital only)

Codex Eldar (6th)
Supplement Iyanden (6th)
Dataslate Eldar Ghost Warriors (6th) (Digital only)
Codex Dark Eldar (5th)

Codex Tyranids (6th)
Dataslate Leviathan Rising I (6th) (Digital only)
Dataslate Leviathan Rising II (6th) (Digital only)
Dataslate Leviathan Rising III (6th) (Digital only) (Not yet released)

Codex Necrons (5th)

Codex Orks (4th)

Current Expansions and their add-ons.

Apocalypse (Same as the old one)
Warzone Damnos

Escalation (Rules to include Super Heavies in regular 40k) This is rumored to be getting rolled into the 6.5 Edition BRB along with Stronghold Assault.

Stonghold Assault (Rules to include lots of fortifications including D weapon wielding ones in regular 40k)

Killteam (Digital only) (Same concepts as the old one - tiny games of 200 points with limitations)

Death From The Skies (A flyer expansion focused on dog fights)

Crusade of Fire (Limited Release) (Just a small Chaos focused expansion)

Now as for the power levels of what I just mentioned? Well I'll try my best. (This exlcudes escalation)

God Tier

Eldau (Wave Serpents, Warpsiders, Wraithknights, Farseers on bikes, Hornets, Riptides, Buffmanders, Missile Sides, Skyrays.

Taudar (Same as above just more Tau less Eldar)

Eldar Jetseer Council (8-10 Warlocks on Bikes with 2 Farseers on Bikes with an Allied Baron attached from Codex Dark Eldar) The objective is to aim for a stupid re-rollable saves, insane melee capabilities and lots of TL pseudo rending shots. Finish the list with Eldar aircraft for AA.

O'vestar (Farsight, O'vesa, Buffmander, Riptide + As many Riptides and Missile Sides as you can afford) This is Tau + Farsight Supplement (Yep they can ally each other)

Farsight/Farsun Bomb (Farsight, Bodyguards, Members of the 8, Shadowsun are all things that can be included) Deepstrike, Don't Scatter, Kill 90% of your enemy the turn you arrive.

Screamerstar (9 Screamers + 4 Heralds sporting the Grimoir, Portalglyph and a Locus of Conjuration) This Deaths Stars aim is a re-rollable 2++ and shooting 4x 3D6 S6 AP4 (Possible Ignoring Cover) at everyone. Also include Kairos Fateweaver and Be'lakor.

Flying Circus (Kairos Fateweaver, Lords of Change, Keepers of Secrets, Daemon Princes, Be'lakor) If it flies and spams a boat load of psychic powers, then it's in this list.

Tiggy in a Blanket or Lothbomb (Take Tigurius or Sevrin Loth as one has a very good chance of getting GoI and the other is Guaranteed) Attache O'vesa, Farsight, Brightstar for ignores cover and then your choice of another Ripitde, 3 Missile Sides + Drones or 3-6 Grav Centurions with a Lascannon Splitefire Sgt. Finish the List with Space Marine Air Cav.

Dark Eldar Beastar (I'm not familiar with this one but I know it involves lots of Multi-Wound Beast and some sort of save shenanigans)

Tier 1

Eldar

Tau

Necrons (Wraithwing and French Bakery)

Daemons

Space Marines (White Scars or Iron Hands Grav Biker Spam with Air Cav)

Imperial Guard Vendetta Spam

Tier 2

Dark Eldar (Venom Spam)

Chaos Space Marines (Lots of Heldrakes and Zombies)

Tyranids of Prey (3 Flyrants w/ x2 TL Devs ea., 4 Crones, 2 Harpies w/ TL HVC, 3 x10 Super Scoring Gargoyles and 2 x10 Gants: 1850 Points.)

Inquisition

Tier 3

Tyranids

Space Wolves

Orks

Grey Knights

Adepta Sororitas

Tier 4

Blood Angels

I'm not sure where Imperial Knights will fit into this and Legion of the Damned is too small to be given a place.

Although they picked up the pace of releasing stuff they aren't of the quality of the old stuff (Rules not models). They were releasing FAQs at a similar rate up until a few months ago.

Orock wrote: Meanwhile people looking for a balanced fun game are forced to start searching elsewhere...

Oh, come on. This is 40k. 40k was never balanced, nor will it be, nor should it be.

It's much more a matter of people who were incorrectly taking the game seriously who are now having a harder time taking it seriously than a matter of some golden age of perfect strategy which is now being ruined.

Zande4 wrote:These are the current codices and their supplements/dataslates.

What's so interesting about that list is that virtually everything is 6th ed. I mean, there's the ork holdout from 4th ed, but guard is on the cusp of being redone, so it's really more a few holdouts than it is the usual slow crawl of releases.

I've heard from more than one person that they wished that when a new rules edition came out that they also released a new version of the codices concurrent with the new rules. Relatively speaking, we almost have that.

Of course, just because the codices come out at nearly the same time doesn't mean that they're going to be any better balanced, but only foolish people would have expected that in the first place.

 Ailaros wrote:

Orock wrote: Meanwhile people looking for a balanced fun game are forced to start searching elsewhere...

Oh, come on. This is 40k. 40k was never balanced, nor will it be, nor should it be.

That's debatable, and you should do so in the thread for it, not here.

The point about people wanting balance and not getting it is valid though since we can clearly see a decent number of people here wanting it.

People have always whined about imbalance, regardless of level of balance. They've never gotten what they wanted.

People who have wanted a faster codex cycle, more units in codices, a chance to play with big new models and their existing superheavies and fliers, and who wanted more fluff, and who wanted supplemental codices, and who wanted a new army all got what they wanted.

Saying that some people continued to not get one of the things that they're never going to get doesn't make this less true as a general statement.

 Ailaros wrote:
People have always whined about imbalance, regardless of level of balance. They've never gotten what they wanted.

People who have wanted a faster codex cycle, more units in codices, a chance to play with big new models and their existing superheavies and fliers, and who wanted more fluff, and who wanted supplemental codices, and who wanted a new army all got what they wanted.

Saying that some people continued to not get one of the things that they're never going to get doesn't make this less true as a general statement.

You're right that some people are getting what they want while some aren't but you're presenting it as if most people are getting what they want and that those who aren't don't matter.

Your opinion and desires are no more valuable than mine.

I'm saying that some people not getting everything they want doesn't invalidate lots of people getting something that they did.

Again though its 'some' vs 'lots'. I'm well aware that lots of people still play 40k but your argument is implying the majority don't care about balance at all.
How on earth can you possibly know that?
GWs falling sales volume while in a growing market suggests people are dissatisfied with them even if the majority are still hanging around.

And the best part is that unless you fundamentally missunderstand the concept of balance there is no reason we can't have our cake and eat it too, GW just don't want to put the effort in.

 Zande4 wrote:
[many things with funny names explained]

Thank you, thank you for explaining what all those things actually ARE. I hear the terms and I don't know what half of them mean.


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Also, THIS happened:

 Ovion wrote:

Updated 6th edition Force Organisation Chart:

I've tried to include everything in it, and I'm fairly sure I haven't missed anything (unless GW have released yet another FoC changing book in the last day).

So yeah.

Kudos to the amazing Ovion for putting together that chart-o-charts and much more, like the list of the 37 distinct army lists that are now legal -- check out all his stuff here.

PS: If you want to discuss how FOCing dysfunctional the FOC has become, I started a thread for that -- any ideas on how to fix this mess?

GW knew their sales were down (before they released the actually press stuff about it and the stock pretty well plummeted)
So now they are trying to release as much as they can in as little time as they can to help make up for the lack of sales in the past year+.
And what everyone else said haha

They are panicked sales are dropping year on year, they've passed off alot of their customers who have then moved on to play other games.

So they go into hyperdrive throwing things out thick and fast hoping something will stick.

What they should be doing is rebuilding the community and making us feel wanted as hobbyists not as atm`s, the price gouging is beyond stupid and they need to realise we don't have endless reserves of cash and there are cheaper equally fun games out there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They are panicked sales are dropping year on year, they've passed off alot of their customers who have then moved on to play other games.

So they go into hyperdrive throwing things out thick and fast hoping something will stick.

What they should be doing is rebuilding the community and making us feel wanted as hobbyists not as atm`s, the price gouging is beyond stupid and they need to realise we don't have endless reserves of cash and there are cheaper equally fun games out there.

It is GW's version of micro-payments to stay competitive in the game