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I'm not sure about shrine keepers, maybe as simply a unit upgrade, but my concern is that Exarchs are shrinekeepers, essentially when you use an Aspect Warrior squad led by an exarch, you are playing a temple's elite led by their high priest. Shrine Keeper would throw this out of proportion

But if we see the exarchs as priests, my idea is that Shrine Keepers would be the High priests.

The balance in Eldar fluff has changed a bit from what I've heard. Early days the shrines were relatively small in number, most craftworlds only had a single shrine per aspect and seldom all aspects, but now there may even be several shrines per craftworld.

Eldar are less and less becoming the dying race in the fluff, and more and more numerous. Aspect warriors were never the elite of the priesthood, though - they were the priesthood, the Eldar whom are travelling the path of Khaine. Exarchs are lost on the path, just as there are Farseers whom will never return to the normal cycle and artisans whom will never again pick up a different tool.

Well this thread seems to by dying a death so I'll try and kick start it yet again

The CC specailsts:
Howling Banshees, Striking Scorpions and Harlequins.

Of the three, banshees are the most reliant on a wave serpent. Scorps can outflank and the shadowseer can look after quins whilst they dance up the field.

The only real issues I currently see with HB's is they really need a doomseer escort to reliably work and hey can't assault out of a moving vehicle.
I'd suggest we keep them the same with the following exceptions:

Change the Acrobatic exarch power to "A unit with the Acrobatic rule may disembark and assault if the vehicle transporting them hasn'y moved more than 12" this turn."

Give them the Furious Charge USR

Increase their points accordingly (18-20ppm?)

You'd then have 3 S4 attacks per model on the turn the charge, but still keep the T3 4+ vulnerability that will mean they dont want to get bogged down. They'd hit hard and fast, or get trapped and die.

Scorpions IMO arent that bad, maybe 4 attacks per model on the charge would be good to set them appart from the shee's? 3+ armour and maybe S4 T3? makes them more suited to long running assaults with bigger units?

Harlequins could do with kisses as standard, they are always take as options anyway and they'd make a coo half way house between the other two. Other than that I think they are okay.

Thoughts?

Scorpions IMO arent that bad, maybe 4 attacks per model on the charge would be good to set them appart from the shee's?

Errr scorpions have 4 attacks on the charge now .... look at mandiblasters ....

The big problem with the Scorpion and Banshee case is that Eldar are specialized.

Sure, Banshees having good out-of-the-vehicle assault works when fighting MEQ. What if you face GEQ on the ground? Rely on Scorpions when GEQ are more likely then MEQ to have cover-negating weapons?

I recon both the anti-MEQ and anti-GEQ close quarters specialists need to be suited for both mechanization and sneakiness.
Additionally, due to over specialization, they both need to be more distinctly good at their area of expertise. If a unit of Banshees assault a unit of Marines (regardless of armour or equipment), they should win provided the marines assaulted aren't a distinctly larger point investment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a random thought on Phoenix Lords, btw:

Essentially a tiny bit older fluff had the Phoenix Lords be sort of reborn as a psyche, absorbing the knowledge and skills of the exarchs into which they are reborn.
1. Phoenix Lords are not deployed onto the field. A Phoenix Lord is always deployed in reserve. When a Phoenix Lord arrives from reserve, replace any exarch model alive (either in reserve or on the board) with the Phoenix Lord.
2. When the Phoenix Lord dies, the model is removed from the table and placed back in reserve. Return to 1.
3. The stat-line should de-emphasise wounds due to the rebirthing nature, although keep in mind you sacrifice an exarch for him!

Swooping hawks:

Some things that I think won't work, or I think should be avoided:

dropping grenades over any enemy unit it flies over - this won't work, unless the hawk squad can move 36" in a turn, and here is why: Assault range is default 12". If the hawks can move 24", in order to "fly over" an enemy unit which is ZERO inches wide, they must start, or end, their turn in assault range, or rapid fire range, of an enemy unit. For an expensive fragile jump troop, this means a bunch of dead hawks.

Skyleap remaining in the current schema (allowing re-deployment) - any rule which is designed to keep a unit off the table as much as possible should be avoided, in my opinion.

Deep-strike grenade drop - its gimmicky and poorly designed. This, combined with sky leap, makes the hawks a really gimmicky unit.

I feel hawks should be completely redesigned.


Statline: Aspect Warrior standard, 'medium' armor save (on par with banshees, DAs, etc)

Special Rules:
All normal eldar army-wide rules, and fleet
Masters of the Skies: On any turn in which the hawk unit moved, cover saves may not be taken against wounds inflicted by the hawk squad in the shooting phase.

Wargear:
Swooping Hawk Wings, Swooping Hawk Grenade Pack, Lasblaster


Swooping Hawk Wings: Swooping Hawks are Jump Infantry, and have the Hit and Run USR
Swooping Hawk Grenade Pack: Swooping hawks have assault, defensive, krak, and haywire grenades
Haywire grenades: 1: shaken 2-4: glance 5-6:pen

Lasblaster:
Several profiles I could see working:
S4 Ap5 R24" Assault 2
S3 Ap6 R24" Assault 3
S3 Ap6 R24" Assault 4

Exarch:
Sunrifle
Hawks Talon


Powers:
Intercept: The hawks never need worse than a 3+ to hit any vehicle. In any turn in which they assaulted a vehicle, they may always utilize their hit and run USR at the end of the assault phase (this allows them to attack and destroy a vehicle/transport, and still get away from reprisals, which is one of their major weaknesses currently).
Skyleap: The hawks have the 'Turboboost' USR.
Aerial Assault (many points): At the start of the assault phase, the hawk unit may make a leadership check, if passed, all swooping hawks in the unit may use their normal number of attacks when attacking with grenades.

So, very simply, the hawks role is supporting anti-infantry fire, and anti-vehicle. I've buffed their movement, and buffed their ranged shooting. I've buffed haywire grenades, and given hawks a mechanism of escape from the aftermath of vehicular combat.


Scorpions:
Their major problem is that they aren't fast, and their prime role - anti horde CC - isn't that useful, because generally when the eldar army is fighting CC against a horde, the game is already lost. My fixes for them are S4 base, which allows for a S8 claw, and a 2+ armor save. (I strongly support a 2+ armor save for all aspects which currently have a 3+, but thats another debate).

I've already nailed down my agreement on Skyleap = Turbo-boost, so I'll comment on the rest.

Another way to guard against vehicular explosions is for Haywires specifically state Vehicle Destroyed - Explodes! count as none-explodes result.
Keep in mind that Scorpions typically have Haywires as well!

I see a fix for Scorpions to be more anti-horde CC. Simply generalise the Exarch powers! Defend would be excellent for Scorpions! Move infiltration to aspect power rather than exarch power and add in Defend.

Mahtamori wrote:Another way to guard against vehicular explosions is for Haywires specifically state Vehicle Destroyed - Explodes! count as none-explodes result.
Keep in mind that Scorpions typically have Haywires as well!

I think this is the best way around it, simply add "any "Vehicle Destroyed - Explodes" results caused by haywire grenades instead count as "Vehicle Destroyed - Wrecked" instead"

I'd second your suggestion of giving the scorps defend, I'm not too keen on 2+ armour though

Here's me being bored. This is a complete suggestion. Point costs are attempted to be kept the same, so unless something is noted otherwise, assume no change there.

No, there is no TL - DR. This is the TL - DR. There's no fluff!

<Wargear>
* Shuriken Catapults are R18" S3 AP5 Assault 2
* Dire Avenger Shuriken Catapults remain the same
* Shuriken Cannons are R24" S4 AP4 Assault 4.
* Lasblasters are R24" S3 AP5 Assault 3
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers
* Haywire Grenades treat Vehicle Destroyed - Explodes! as Vehicle Destroyed - Wrecked.
* Vectored Engines (vehicle upgrade) allows a vehicle to deep strike, with a scatter of 1D6".

<Army special rules>
* All models are Fleet, including Walkers and Wraiths.
* All infantry and jump infantry have Move Through Cover.
* All unit leaders are psychers, and help with Wraithsight.
* All Exarch powers are psychic powers and function identically to Warlock powers.
* All Aspect Warriors are joined by an Exarch at no additional cost.

<Supernatural powers>
* Mind War causes single wound to one model within line of sight and 18". No saves of any kind may be made.
* Eldritch Storm has infinite range, does not scatter, requires no line of sight.
* Blade Storm changes name to Fire Storm. Increases the rate of fire by +1 for every full 2 shots it's normally able to fire, at the expense of needing to cool off next turn.
* Conceal grants Stealth USR, and may be used in open terrain.

<HQ>

Farseer.
* Knows two psychic powers, may cast one.
* Venerable upgrade replaces Soul Stone. Venerable Farseers know all psychic powers and may cast two per turn.
* Farseer cost increased to 80 points base.
* Venerable Farseer upgrade cost set to +50 points
* Up to three Warlocks may be joined to the Farseer as a retinue.
* Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon or Wave Serpent as dedicated transport

Warlocks
* These may not be purchased indepentently.
* These units may not be upgraded to Spiritseers, unless accompanying a Wraithguard unit.

Autarch.
* Master Strategist also includes the effects as seen in Eldrad's Divination.
* Move Through Cover.

Avatar.
* This unit is now Fleet.

Named characters.
* These are righteously ignored for the moment.

<Dedicated Transports>

Wave Serpent
* This unit is an assault vehicle. Models transported inside count as disembarking from a stationary vehicle for purposes of assault.
* This unit has access to Energy Fields as an optional upgrade for +20 points
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers

Falcon
* This unit is a gunship. The turret-mounted weapons are treated as a single weapon for purposes of determining which weapons may fire at a given speed.
* This unit has a carry capacity of 12
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers

<Elites>

Fire Dragons.
* Basic unit size is 4 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch.
* Exarch is a psycher.
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

Harlequin Troupe
* This unit may also select Falcon and Wave Serpent as dedicated transport

Howling Banshees
* This unit has Acrobatic with or without Exarch. Is not conferred to Autarch.
* Exarch power War Shout reduces the weapon skill of all models in base contact with Exarch to 1. No leadership test is made.
* Exarch has access to Banshee Veil (grants Scout USR to unit) for +10 points.
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

Striking Scorpions
* This unit has Infiltrate with or without Exarch. Is not conferred to Autarch.
* Exarch has access to Defend Exarch power for the same cost as Dire Avengers.
* This unit has Haywire Grenades
* Haywire Grenades treat Vehicle Destroyed - Explodes! as Vehicle Destroyed - Wrecked.
* This unit has Fleet
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

Wraithguard
* Unit consist of 3-10 Wraithguard and 1 Warlock.
* This unit may not be chosen as a Troop choice.
* Wraithsight changed, makes the unit Slow and Purposeful unless within 6" range of a psycher.
* This unit count as having Power Fists in close combat.
* Warlock may be upgraded to a Boneweaver for +20 points. Boneweavers grant Wraithguard and Wraithlord within 6" Feel No Pain (4+), but may not choose Warlock psychic powers.
* This unit has Fleet
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

<Troop>

Guardian Defenders
* This unit consist of 5-20 Guardian Defenders and 1 Warlock, and are upgraded in quantities of 5 Guardian Defenders.
* This unit has R18" S3 AP5 weapons.
* Guardian Defenders have BS4
* For every 5 Guardian Storm in the unit, two members must will crew one heavy weapon platform at the point cost of the weapon.
* One weapon platform may be upgraded to a Support Weapon Platform at the point cost of the weapon.
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

Guardian Storm
* This unit consist of 10-20 Guardian Storm and 1 Warlock, and are upgraded in quantities of 5 Guardian Storm.
* Guardian Storm have WS4
* Guardian Storm have Scouts USR
* Guardian Storm have offensive and Haywire Grenades
* Haywire Grenades treat Vehicle Destroyed - Explodes! as Vehicle Destroyed - Wrecked.
* For every 5 Guardian Storm in the unit, one model must be given an additional special weapon (flamer or fusion gun) which does not replace current armament
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

Guardian Jetbike
* This unit consist of 3-9 Guardian Jetbikes and 1 Warlock.
* This unit has twin-linked R18" S3 AP5 weapons.

Rangers
* This unit has a cost of 22
* This unit has all the benefits of Pathfinders by default.
* This unit may not be upgraded to Pathfinders.

Dire Avengers
* The basic squad consist of 4 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch.
* Dire Sword causes Instant Death on a successful leadership test.
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

<Fast Attack>

Shining Spears
* The basic cost of this unit is reduced to 30 points per model.
* The basic squad consist of 2 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch
* The unit has Hit and Run aspect ability, which is conferred to joined Exarchs.
* Exarch Withdraw power allows unit to utilized Hit and Run on a turn the assault at will, even if not all conditions are met.
* This unit has offensive grenades.

Swooping Hawks
* The basic cost of this squad is reduced to 18 points.
* The basic squad consist of 4 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch.
* Any unit in the army may measure visibility, such as for purposes of Night Fighting, from a unit of Swooping Hawks.
* Any unit in the army capable of firing Barrage may use Direct Fire if the target is within line of Sight of the Swooping Hawks.
* Skyleap grants the Exarch and unit Turbo-boost instead.
* Haywire Grenades treat Vehicle Destroyed - Explodes! as Vehicle Destroyed - Wrecked.
* This unit has improved basic weapons.
* This unit no longer has Swooping Hawk Grenade Pack.
* This unit has Move Through Cover

Warp Spiders
* The basic cost of this squad is reduced to 18 points per model.
* The basic squad consist of 4 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch.
* The Exarch no longer has access to Surprise Assault
* The Exarch has access to Warp Crawler for +5 points. This allows the unit to re-roll any assault-phase Warp Jump rolls. Second results stay.
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit has Fleet

Vyper
* This unit is no longer open topped.
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers
* This unit has Vectored Engines

War Walker
* This unit is now Fast Attack rather than Heavy Support
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers
* This unit has Fleet

<Heavy Support>

Falcon
* This unit is now a dedicated transport and may no longer be selected as a HS choice

War Walker
* This unit is now a Fast Attach choice and may no longer be selected as a HS choice

Support Weapon
* This unit is now a squad upgrade for Guardian Defenders and may no longer be selected as a HS choice

Dark Reapers
* The basic squad consist of 2 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch.
* Exarch no longer has access to any of the previous Exarch powers.
* Exarch has access to Fire Storm Exarch power.
* Exarch has access to Path of the Reaper Exarch power for +10 points. This allows the unit to select to be Slow and Purposeful or not at the start of the owning player's movement phase.
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit has Fleet

Fire Prism
* No additional changes

Shadow Weaver
* The dangerous terrain test is triggered immediately when next the unit moves, for any reason, and the unit is otherwise treated as if in difficult terrain for the rest of that move. This is a clarification change.

Wraithlord
* The heavy weapons are purchased individually and does not twin-link.
* The Wraithsword grants an additional attack, but does not allow re-rolling of failed attack rolls.
* Wraithsight changed, makes the unit Slow and Purposeful unless within 6" range of a psycher.
* Shuriken Cannon cost 5 points each.
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers
* This unit has Fleet

Grim reapers? lol.

rivers64 wrote:Grim reapers? lol.

Now with twin-linked scythes.

Right, my feedback on this (in red):

I apologise for it being critical, but I'll try to explain my points where possible, so hopefully it's constructive more than anything. Nonetheless, here are [just] my thoughts on what you've proposed:

Mahtamori wrote:Here's me being bored. This is a complete suggestion. Point costs are attempted to be kept the same, so unless something is noted otherwise, assume no change there.

No, there is no TL - DR. This is the TL - DR. There's no fluff!

<Wargear>
* Shuriken Catapults are R18" S3 AP5 Assault 2
* Dire Avenger Shuriken Catapults remain the same
* Shuriken Cannons are R24" S4 AP4 Assault 4.
* Lasblasters are R24" S3 AP5 Assault 3
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers
* Haywire Grenades treat Vehicle Destroyed - Explodes! as Vehicle Destroyed - Wrecked.
* Vectored Engines (vehicle upgrade) allows a vehicle to deep strike, with a scatter of 1D6".
Not sure whether I prefer Shuriken Catapults before or now tbh, but I'm relieved to see it's not rending as was previously considered.
I think you've made Shuriken Cannons significantly worse and I can't see why, they were largely outclassed by Scatter Lasers as it was; their only advantage now is being defensive, but I'd personally prefer Str6 over defensive.
Lasblasters may be a bit of an OTT change IMHO, maybe range 18" would be more suitable IMHO. However, Star Cannons are a fair points cost reduction, although I still see their use being limited.
Nice change for haywire grenades, makes sense. Although it may be simpler to simply move them in line with the DE (assuming they're different).
I personally don't see the reasoning or advantage behing vectored engines. Eldar have no close range or melta weapons to benefit from deepstrike and when was the last time you saw a vehicle other than a Land Speeder, drop pod or monolith deep-strike?

<Army special rules>
* All models are Fleet, including Walkers and Wraiths.
* All infantry and jump infantry have Move Through Cover.
* All unit leaders are psychers, and help with Wraithsight.
* All Exarch powers are psychic powers and function identically to Warlock powers.
* All Aspect Warriors are joined by an Exarch at no additional cost.

Move through cover is reasonable and fair IMHO. However, Walkers and Wraiths being Fleet makes no sense to me. Walkers would be shooting rather than running and the only walker (Warwalker) has scout as it is. Wraiths are similarly practically dead and can you imagine something akin to a Wraithguard going for a brisk jog? Particularly considering it's twice the size of a normal Eldar and inhabited by someone who's technically dead.
Free exarchs sounds fairly reasonable to me, similar to most 5th edition at least although I think it should be a 10pts increase to the units base points cost, akin to Space Marine sergeants etc. IMHO. I don't see the reasoning behind making Exarch Powers capable of being nullified, nor them helping Wraithsight?

<Supernatural powers>
* Mind War causes single wound to one model within line of sight and 18". No saves of any kind may be made.
* Eldritch Storm has infinite range, does not scatter, requires no line of sight.
* Blade Storm changes name to Fire Storm. Increases the rate of fire by +1 for every full 2 shots it's normally able to fire, at the expense of needing to cool off next turn.
* Conceal grants Stealth USR, and may be used in open terrain.
I'd argue mind war to be worse than it is now tbh. Keep your idea but with the current wound mechanic IMHO. Eldritch storm seems balanced if it had scatter I'd argue.
Conceal is good though.
Fire/Blade Storm is fine (As before) and the name change is good, although I'd just leave it with the same wording otherwise you get confusion for 3-shot weapons and EML's in Reapers get nerfed.

<HQ>

Farseer.
* Knows two psychic powers, may cast one.
* Venerable upgrade replaces Soul Stone. Venerable Farseers know all psychic powers and may cast two per turn.
* Farseer cost increased to 80 points base.
* Venerable Farseer upgrade cost set to +50 points
* Up to three Warlocks may be joined to the Farseer as a retinue.
* Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon or Wave Serpent as dedicated transport

80pts base seems like a bargain to me. Farseers are currently seen as the heart of an Eldar army and for 15pts extra they now don't have to pay for Psychic Powers and know two as standard?!
Venerable seems fine with me, although I don't see why Warlocks needed changing IMHO.

Warlocks
* These may not be purchased indepentently.
* These units may not be upgraded to Spiritseers, unless accompanying a Wraithguard unit.

Autarch.
* Master Strategist also includes the effects as seen in Eldrad's Divination.
* Move Through Cover.

Avatar.
* This unit is now Fleet.

Named characters.
* These are righteously ignored for the moment.

Rightly I assume you mean?

<Dedicated Transports>

Wave Serpent
* This unit is an assault vehicle. Models transported inside count as disembarking from a stationary vehicle for purposes of assault.
* This unit has access to Energy Fields as an optional upgrade for +20 points
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers

Falcon
* This unit is a gunship. The turret-mounted weapons are treated as a single weapon for purposes of determining which weapons may fire at a given speed.
* This unit has a carry capacity of 12
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers

The reasoning behind making Wave Serpents an assault vehicle is beyond me. I can understand it as an ability for Banshees, but a thorough assault vehicle doesn't make sense to me, no other vehicle of the same nature is and quite rightly it works as a balancing mechanism IMHO.
Also, why the Falcon is a DT also makes no sense to me. You said it yourself; "this unit is a gunship". To double its transport capacity (therefore out-classing the Wave Serpent), allow it throughout the army and to improve it's mobile-fire-power for no points change is plain wrong IMHO.
I'd recommend keeping it as HS, keeping its current transport capacity but allowing a single aspect unit to select it as a DT whilst keeping the mobile-firepower rule would be much more suitable IMHO.
Also, how come seemingly only Harlies and a Seer Council may select Wave Serpents?!

<Elites>

Fire Dragons.
* Basic unit size is 4 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch.
* Exarch is a psycher.
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

Harlequin Troupe
* This unit may also select Falcon and Wave Serpent as dedicated transport

Harlequins are tricky due to the DE codex, however I don't believe they should have a DT available IMHO, particularly with the WS as an assault vehicle!
Obviously, fire dragons are fine though.

Howling Banshees
* This unit has Acrobatic with or without Exarch. Is not conferred to Autarch.
* Exarch power War Shout reduces the weapon skill of all models in base contact with Exarch to 1. No leadership test is made.
* Exarch has access to Banshee Veil (grants Scout USR to unit) for +10 points.
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

Acrobatic sounds reasonable, although War Shout was much more balanced before and I don't think Banshees really need a notable boost with Assault Vehicles available.

Striking Scorpions
* This unit has Infiltrate with or without Exarch. Is not conferred to Autarch.
* Exarch has access to Defend Exarch power for the same cost as Dire Avengers.
* This unit has Haywire Grenades
* Haywire Grenades treat Vehicle Destroyed - Explodes! as Vehicle Destroyed - Wrecked.
* This unit has Fleet
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

Base Infiltrate, Move through cover sounds reasonable IMHO. Although to not change their points costs and add this alongside a free exarch, haywire grenades and fleet is excessive IMHO.

Wraithguard
* Unit consist of 3-10 Wraithguard and 1 Warlock.
* This unit may not be chosen as a Troop choice.
* Wraithsight changed, makes the unit Slow and Purposeful unless within 6" range of a psycher.
* This unit count as having Power Fists in close combat.
* Warlock may be upgraded to a Boneweaver for +20 points. Boneweavers grant Wraithguard and Wraithlord within 6" Feel No Pain (4+), but may not choose Warlock psychic powers.
* This unit has Fleet
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

Change to Wraithsight seems reasonable although with Exarchs benefiting it too, I can't see the need behind Wraithsight existing at all tbh. I don't see why they can no longer be taken as troops though; many Lyanden armies are based around such a concept. The Power Fists as standard also seems OP to me too, I don't see how it works with the fluff either IMHO.
I think a Wraithlord/Wraithguard FNP bubble is very much OP however, they're already high toughness. Add this to better movement (particularly through cover) and stealth and I'd argue it to be overpowered. Also, shouldn't a Boneweaver simply be a bonesinger?
Also, you would need to clarify how much space in a transport a Wraithguard takes up too.

<Troop>

Guardian Defenders
* This unit consist of 5-20 Guardian Defenders and 1 Warlock, and are upgraded in quantities of 5 Guardian Defenders.
* This unit has R18" S3 AP5 weapons.
* Guardian Defenders have BS4
* For every 5 Guardian Storm in the unit, two members must will crew one heavy weapon platform at the point cost of the weapon.
* One weapon platform may be upgraded to a Support Weapon Platform at the point cost of the weapon.
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

Whilst I respect what you're attempting to achieve here (Guardians clearly do need a boost), I don't see why they can only be brought in groups of five?
Also, they recieve less training than a Guardsmen or Firewarrior but have better BS? I think Guardians should be BS3 considering their being civilians IMHO.

Guardian Storm
* This unit consist of 10-20 Guardian Storm and 1 Warlock, and are upgraded in quantities of 5 Guardian Storm.
* Guardian Storm have WS4
* Guardian Storm have Scouts USR
* Guardian Storm have offensive and Haywire Grenades
* Haywire Grenades treat Vehicle Destroyed - Explodes! as Vehicle Destroyed - Wrecked.
* For every 5 Guardian Storm in the unit, one model must be given an additional special weapon (flamer or fusion gun) which does not replace current armament
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

Same points for Defenders, however I also feel Scouts (particularly with a DT) and Haywire grenades are too much IMHO. I also don't see why they 'must' take an additional special weapon.
My recommendation for Guardians would be the base warlocks and 7pts each, without the stat-changes, bar move through cover. That's what I'd recommend at least.

Guardian Jetbike
* This unit consist of 3-9 Guardian Jetbikes and 1 Warlock.
* This unit has twin-linked R18" S3 AP5 weapons.

I'd say a points reduction and/or scout is needed for Jetbikes.

Rangers
* This unit has a cost of 22
* This unit has all the benefits of Pathfinders by default.
* This unit may not be upgraded to Pathfinders.

This seems like a fairly good change to me, definitely suits the fluff although they will still suffer from their existing flaws, but nonetheless, it seems like a good change.

Dire Avengers
* The basic squad consist of 4 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch.
* Dire Sword causes Instant Death on a successful leadership test.
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

<Fast Attack>

Shining Spears
* The basic cost of this unit is reduced to 30 points per model.
* The basic squad consist of 2 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch
* The unit has Hit and Run aspect ability, which is conferred to joined Exarchs.
* Exarch Withdraw power allows unit to utilized Hit and Run on a turn the assault at will, even if not all conditions are met.
* This unit has offensive grenades.

Considering their strength on the charge, Hit and Run as a base ability sounds a bit much to me. Obviously they definitely need a boost, but points decrease and hit and run and grenades and an exarch is a bit much IMHO.

Swooping Hawks
* The basic cost of this squad is reduced to 18 points.
* The basic squad consist of 4 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch.
* Any unit in the army may measure visibility, such as for purposes of Night Fighting, from a unit of Swooping Hawks.
* Any unit in the army capable of firing Barrage may use Direct Fire if the target is within line of Sight of the Swooping Hawks.
* Skyleap grants the Exarch and unit Turbo-boost instead.
* Haywire Grenades treat Vehicle Destroyed - Explodes! as Vehicle Destroyed - Wrecked.
* This unit has improved basic weapons.
* This unit no longer has Swooping Hawk Grenade Pack.
* This unit has Move Through Cover

I really approve of the points cost change here, although I don't see why you've removed their grenade pack which is one of their better and more fluffy aspects.
I also don't see the reasoning behind the Nightfighting/Barrage rules, the latter of which is liable to being abused IMHO.

Warp Spiders
* The basic cost of this squad is reduced to 18 points per model.
* The basic squad consist of 4 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch.
* The Exarch no longer has access to Surprise Assault
* The Exarch has access to Warp Crawler for +5 points. This allows the unit to re-roll any assault-phase Warp Jump rolls. Second results stay.
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit has Fleet

18pts base is a bit too cheap IMHO, particularly considering their str6 weapons. Warp Spiders are still used in competitive lists today.
Warp Crawler seems like a good ability though, big thumbs-up for that.

Vyper
* This unit is no longer open topped.
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers
* This unit has Vectored Engines

I'm struggling to see why they're no longer open-topped, when the gunner is sitting out of the (open) top. Land Speeders are, why can't Vypers? Once again, I don't see the appeal behind star engines either.
I'd recommend a decreased cost and Shuriken Cannon base. I'd also recommend trying to compare them to Land Speeders.

War Walker
* This unit is now Fast Attack rather than Heavy Support
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers
* This unit has Fleet

Whilst I strongly support their move to FA () I don't see why they should have fleet or anyone would consider a Vyper next to these, particularly for the comparative amount of firepower they can dish out, for less.

<Heavy Support>

Falcon
* This unit is now a dedicated transport and may no longer be selected as a HS choice

War Walker
* This unit is now a Fast Attach choice and may no longer be selected as a HS choice

Support Weapon
* This unit is now a squad upgrade for Guardian Defenders and may no longer be selected as a HS choice

IMHO, whilst I believe you've now under-supported the HS slot. Whilst it was obviously over-saturated before, I think now it's very much under-saturated. Space Marines have 7 HS options, whereas Eldar now have 4?

Dark Reapers
* The basic squad consist of 2 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch.
* Exarch no longer has access to any of the previous Exarch powers.
* Exarch has access to Fire Storm Exarch power.
* Exarch has access to Path of the Reaper Exarch power for +10 points. This allows the unit to select to be Slow and Purposeful or not at the start of the owning player's movement phase.
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit has Fleet

Bladestorm's a reasonable addition (if potentially OTT), however I believe it would need play-testing to properly judge its balance. However, I feel this unit is (still) seriously under-powered. For 35pts each and gaining no additional firepower from before, I can't imagine anyone using them. Also, I believe they should have the option for a dedicated transport (cue Devastators).

Fire Prism
* No additional changes

Shadow Weaver
* The dangerous terrain test is triggered immediately when next the unit moves, for any reason, and the unit is otherwise treated as if in difficult terrain for the rest of that move. This is a clarification change.

I assume you mean Nightspinner?

Wraithlord
* The heavy weapons are purchased individually and does not twin-link.
* The Wraithsword grants an additional attack, but does not allow re-rolling of failed attack rolls.
* Wraithsight changed, makes the unit Slow and Purposeful unless within 6" range of a psycher.
* Shuriken Cannon cost 5 points each.
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers
* This unit has Fleet

Once again, I don't see the reasoning behind fleet and S+P not only contradicts this but is actually a nerf for the Wraithlord. I strongly support the no-twin linking which is a good change, but now they're worse in assault (wraithsword), no more durable and cost as much.

As I said, I've tried to avoid being too critical but I'm personally just voicing my opinion on the matter and hopefully it will help. I think, unless the special characters change this, you've actually taken away some of the flavour from the army (eg. Wraithguard, Seer Councils) and made changes where they don't need to be made IMHO. The Eldar Codex can still perform well in a competitive environment and some units/vehicles have had unnecessary changes made to them, whether for good or worse.

Also, I'd be aware that you should generally try to keep things underpowered if anything, particularly considering the proposed nature of these rules and how people can react to proposed rules.

Whilst I support some of the changes and better representation of the Eldar grace, I personally still see a lot of issues with your proposed changes...

Alright to enter back into the fray...

Eldar suffer from T3 to be an excellent HTH army. Sure Initiative helps but they need some more help. There are 3 ways to improve it base WS, Attacks and AC. What I would propose is 3 classifications of aspects - HTH aspects - WS 5 and A 2 . *Howling Banshees, Striking Scorpions, Warp Spiders, Shining Spears*
Fire aspects - BS5 and A1. *Swooping Hawks, Dark Reapers
General Aspects - A2 *Dire Avengers, Fire Dragon

Exarch WS 5 and BS 5 and A +1 and Ld 10 plus special equipment and exarch abilities.

The increase in number of attacks brings the eldar elite in line with other races (Sterngard, Vangard Vets, Wolfguard, etc.)
A banshee pulling 4 attacks, is much more likely to still be effective without the necessity of a Doom.
(Current 3 attacks each generally hitting on a 4+ and killing on a 5+ so 30 attacks result in 5 kills. Versus 40 attacks hitting on 3+ killing on 5+ resulting in aroun 9 kills.)

Banshee:

Acrobatics - This grants all banshees a 5+ invulnerable or -- 4+ invulnerable when in HTH only.
War shout- A successful leadership test by the banshees results in Furious Charge (+1 S and +1 I to the unit)
Automatically go first.

Striking Scorpions:

Shadow: Infiltrate and +1 to any cover save
Stealth : 3d6 through terrain.
Gains fleet of foot. Has plasma grenades.

Warp Spiders:

H&R: Hit and run capability
Wisp: Due to the unnatural nature of the warp movement, spiders always go at initiative.
Weapon as is but add rending and the dangerous terrain test for any successive movement by an opponent.

Shining Spears:

H&R:
At one with their bikes: Never affected by terrain for initiative. Skilled rider. Grant a 5+ invulnerable from fire.

Swooping Hawks:

Change weapon to haywire launcher/lascannon. (Dual purpose but always one or the other.)
Skyleap: Due to the nature of SH, their targets never benefit from cover.
: Always hit any target on a 4+ with grenades ( Including walkers)
Haywire grenades

Dark Reapers:
Weapon changed to S7 AP3 ROF 1 48" or S4 AP4 ROF1 Blast G36"

Quickshot - the whole unit gets +1 ROF
Crackshot - the whole unit ignores cover.

The big change here is to the weapon. It give it some flexibility and complements whatever weapon the exarch is using. If he has an EML, you have the ability to match it with some missile fire that can affect vehicles. If he has a tempest launcher you don't end up with a costly escort that does nothing. Reducing the ROF of the weapon but granting the exarch abilities to the whole squad allows them to match abilities. Note these abilities, while tied to an exarch make reapers extremely deadly so the cost of them should be high - almost prohibitive for an exarch to take both.

Dire avengers basically as is with the addition of +1 A. These should remain the baseline troops of the eldar.

Fire Dragons: basically made general because we don't need even more reason to take them by being a fire aspect and having a BS 5. +1 A should help (albeit not much) in their being a pain when they get hit with the counter attack after they blow up the tank.

Guardian Defenders - 8 pts each. Rapid fire 18" range catapults. 1 support weapon for every 8 (rounded up) in the squad - with a mandatory Warlock. All have plasma grenades for free. 5+ armor save.
Support weapon costs: Shuriken cannon: Free Scatter Laser: +5, EML +10 , Starcannon +15 (rof 3), Bright lance +20. Base squad goes back to previious of 5 but plus the warlock so 65 points gets you 5 guardians with one shuriken cannon and one warlock without an ability. The max is 185 for 20 guardians with 3 shuriken cannons plus one warlock without an ability.

BS is still 3 because a guardian based force should depend on a farseer as a crutch moreso than DA. 5+ AC because there is a certain value in wounds. 185 for 34 S4 shots and 9 S6 shots with 20 wounds versus 30 S4 shots and 10 wounds albeit with a 4+ save. Besides the value of a warlock's conceal should be considered. I mean 20 AP 5 wounds will kill a 20-man defender squad but then again on average it will kill 10 dire avengers with ther 4+ AC. So points wise, they are about equivalent.

If everyone is hell bent on reducing the cost of Defenders - then make them a liability on KP missions - Guardians are emergency troops, while they are good in a fight they are the architects scientists and artisans of the craftworld. The loss of them will cause a severe hurt on the craftworld, therefore every guardian squad lost counts as +1 KP for being lost.

If you do that then feel free to up their BS to 4 and their SV to 4+ as there is now a real gamble to going guardian heavy with any force.

My thoughts in Green

Mahtamori wrote:
<Wargear>
* Shuriken Catapults are R18" S3 AP5 Assault 2
* Dire Avenger Shuriken Catapults remain the same
* Shuriken Cannons are R24" S4 AP4 Assault 4.
* Lasblasters are R24" S3 AP5 Assault 3
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers
* Haywire Grenades treat Vehicle Destroyed - Explodes! as Vehicle Destroyed - Wrecked.
* Vectored Engines (vehicle upgrade) allows a vehicle to deep strike, with a scatter of 1D6".

IMO that will make guardians suriken weapons pretty useless and would only get used the turn or two before they get assaulted (and wouldnt be too effective). I'm not too keen on the cannons either, maybe S5? Everything else seems okay

<Army special rules>
* All models are Fleet, including Walkers and Wraiths.
* All infantry and jump infantry have Move Through Cover.
* All unit leaders are psychers, and help with Wraithsight.
* All Exarch powers are psychic powers and function identically to Warlock powers.
* All Aspect Warriors are joined by an Exarch at no additional cost.

I wouldnt give wriaths feet, but theres no harm in giving it to walkers, everything else seems good

<Supernatural powers>
* Mind War causes single wound to one model within line of sight and 18". No saves of any kind may be made.
* Eldritch Storm has infinite range, does not scatter, requires no line of sight.
* Blade Storm changes name to Fire Storm. Increases the rate of fire by +1 for every full 2 shots it's normally able to fire, at the expense of needing to cool off next turn.
* Conceal grants Stealth USR, and may be used in open terrain.

I like mind war as it is but with no cover saves allowed, even with those powers eldritch storm is still a bit "meh" in my opinion. the name Firestorm is already used in planet strike, i feel that giving it to several units will steal the DA's thunder.

<HQ>

Farseer.
* Knows two psychic powers, may cast one.
* Venerable upgrade replaces Soul Stone. Venerable Farseers know all psychic powers and may cast two per turn.
* Farseer cost increased to 80 points base.
* Venerable Farseer upgrade cost set to +50 points
* Up to three Warlocks may be joined to the Farseer as a retinue.
* Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon or Wave Serpent as dedicated transport

+25 gets you 2 free powers, +50 gives you a free 20 point upgrade and access to every power, this strikes me as being a little too much. I like the retinue though but am afraid it might be a bit to deathstar-y

Warlocks
* These may not be purchased indepentently.
* These units may not be upgraded to Spiritseers, unless accompanying a Wraithguard unit.

sounds fair

Autarch.
* Master Strategist also includes the effects as seen in Eldrad's Divination.
* Move Through Cover.

is this including all the previously discussed stratagems? if so I ike it

Avatar.
* This unit is now Fleet.

Good shout

Named characters.
* These are righteously ignored for the moment.

<Dedicated Transports>

Wave Serpent
* This unit is an assault vehicle. Models transported inside count as disembarking from a stationary vehicle for purposes of assault.
* This unit has access to Energy Fields as an optional upgrade for +20 points
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers

Not a fan of just simply making them an assault vehicle, not sure why though. everything else is good

Falcon
* This unit is a gunship. The turret-mounted weapons are treated as a single weapon for purposes of determining which weapons may fire at a given speed.
* This unit has a carry capacity of 12
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers

Don't like the big capacity, they are primarily battle tanks, not for transporting huge units. maybe just add a ravager style rule "if the vehicle moves 12" or less it may fire all weapons"?

<Elites>

Fire Dragons.
* Basic unit size is 4 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch.
* Exarch is a psycher.
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

like

Harlequin Troupe
* This unit may also select Falcon and Wave Serpent as dedicated transport

like

Howling Banshees
* This unit has Acrobatic with or without Exarch. Is not conferred to Autarch.
* Exarch power War Shout reduces the weapon skill of all models in base contact with Exarch to 1. No leadership test is made.
* Exarch has access to Banshee Veil (grants Scout USR to unit) for +10 points.
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

maybe all models have WS reduced by 1? I dont see much need for scout but doesnt mean it cant be there

Striking Scorpions
* This unit has Infiltrate with or without Exarch. Is not conferred to Autarch.
* Exarch has access to Defend Exarch power for the same cost as Dire Avengers.
* This unit has Haywire Grenades
* Haywire Grenades treat Vehicle Destroyed - Explodes! as Vehicle Destroyed - Wrecked.
* This unit has Fleet
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

like

Wraithguard
* Unit consist of 3-10 Wraithguard and 1 Warlock.
* This unit may not be chosen as a Troop choice.
* Wraithsight changed, makes the unit Slow and Purposeful unless within 6" range of a psycher.
* This unit count as having Power Fists in close combat.
* Warlock may be upgraded to a Boneweaver for +20 points. Boneweavers grant Wraithguard and Wraithlord within 6" Feel No Pain (4+), but may not choose Warlock psychic powers.
* This unit has Fleet
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

I dont like them not being allowed to count as troops, unless this is specifically inked to a iyanden character

<Troop>

Guardian Defenders
* This unit consist of 5-20 Guardian Defenders and 1 Warlock, and are upgraded in quantities of 5 Guardian Defenders.
* This unit has R18" S3 AP5 weapons.
* Guardian Defenders have BS4
* For every 5 Guardian Storm in the unit, two members must will crew one heavy weapon platform at the point cost of the weapon.
* One weapon platform may be upgraded to a Support Weapon Platform at the point cost of the weapon.
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

I dont like the BS4, I'd go for units of 5-15 and 1 heavy weapon platform per 5 guys

Guardian Storm
* This unit consist of 10-20 Guardian Storm and 1 Warlock, and are upgraded in quantities of 5 Guardian Storm.
* Guardian Storm have WS4
* Guardian Storm have Scouts USR
* Guardian Storm have offensive and Haywire Grenades
* Haywire Grenades treat Vehicle Destroyed - Explodes! as Vehicle Destroyed - Wrecked.
* For every 5 Guardian Storm in the unit, one model must be given an additional special weapon (flamer or fusion gun) which does not replace current armament
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

other than WS4 I like it

Guardian Jetbike
* This unit consist of 3-9 Guardian Jetbikes and 1 Warlock.
* This unit has twin-linked R18" S3 AP5 weapons.

They will be really quite poor if they only have 3 models with S3 guns

Rangers
* This unit has a cost of 22
* This unit has all the benefits of Pathfinders by default.
* This unit may not be upgraded to Pathfinders.

I always take the upgrade anyway so I see no problem with this

Dire Avengers
* The basic squad consist of 4 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch.
* Dire Sword causes Instant Death on a successful leadership test.
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit may also select a Falcon as dedicated transport

I'd go for a toughness test by the wounded model, other than that its good

<Fast Attack>

Shining Spears
* The basic cost of this unit is reduced to 30 points per model.
* The basic squad consist of 2 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch
* The unit has Hit and Run aspect ability, which is conferred to joined Exarchs.
* Exarch Withdraw power allows unit to utilized Hit and Run on a turn the assault at will, even if not all conditions are met.
* This unit has offensive grenades.

like

Swooping Hawks
* The basic cost of this squad is reduced to 18 points.
* The basic squad consist of 4 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch.
* Any unit in the army may measure visibility, such as for purposes of Night Fighting, from a unit of Swooping Hawks.
* Any unit in the army capable of firing Barrage may use Direct Fire if the target is within line of Sight of the Swooping Hawks.
* Skyleap grants the Exarch and unit Turbo-boost instead.
* Haywire Grenades treat Vehicle Destroyed - Explodes! as Vehicle Destroyed - Wrecked.
* This unit has improved basic weapons.
* This unit no longer has Swooping Hawk Grenade Pack.
* This unit has Move Through Cover

I like it, what about skyleap/movement stuff?

Warp Spiders
* The basic cost of this squad is reduced to 18 points per model.
* The basic squad consist of 4 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch.
* The Exarch no longer has access to Surprise Assault
* The Exarch has access to Warp Crawler for +5 points. This allows the unit to re-roll any assault-phase Warp Jump rolls. Second results stay.
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit has Fleet

does this include the nightspinner style effect from the weapons?

Vyper
* This unit is no longer open topped.
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers
* This unit has Vectored Engines

I prefer the jetbike route, but this isn't too bad

War Walker
* This unit is now Fast Attack rather than Heavy Support
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers
* This unit has Fleet

like

<Heavy Support>

Falcon
* This unit is now a dedicated transport and may no longer be selected as a HS choice

War Walker
* This unit is now a Fast Attach choice and may no longer be selected as a HS choice

Support Weapon
* This unit is now a squad upgrade for Guardian Defenders and may no longer be selected as a HS choice

like
like
like

Dark Reapers
* The basic squad consist of 2 Aspect Warriors and 1 Exarch.
* Exarch no longer has access to any of the previous Exarch powers.
* Exarch has access to Fire Storm Exarch power.
* Exarch has access to Path of the Reaper Exarch power for +10 points. This allows the unit to select to be Slow and Purposeful or not at the start of the owning player's movement phase.
* This unit has Move Through Cover
* This unit has Fleet

like

Fire Prism
* No additional changes

Shadow Weaver
* The dangerous terrain test is triggered immediately when next the unit moves, for any reason, and the unit is otherwise treated as if in difficult terrain for the rest of that move. This is a clarification change.

Just change it from a dangerous terrain test to "roll a dice for each model in the unit the next time any model moves for any reason, remove a model for every 1 rolled, They also count as moving through difficult terrain.

Wraithlord
* The heavy weapons are purchased individually and does not twin-link.
* The Wraithsword grants an additional attack, but does not allow re-rolling of failed attack rolls.
* Wraithsight changed, makes the unit Slow and Purposeful unless within 6" range of a psycher.
* Shuriken Cannon cost 5 points each.
* Star Cannons are all cheaper. For every model capable of wielding on, the cost is reduced to the same level as Scatter Lasers
* This unit has Fleet

apart from fleet I like it

NEW ABILITIES
Fleet of Foot – Eldar roll 2D6 and pick the highest result when they run.
Exarch Abilities – Exarchs grant +1 WS to their unit when they charge.
Phoenix Lords gain a 4+ invulnerable save and make one squad of their Aspect scoring.
Dark Reapers – Reaper Launcher 2nd firing mode, 48” range S7 AP3 H1.

CHANGES
Shuriken Catapults – Range 18”
Farseer – Mind War – No cover saves. Fortune - increase range to 18”. (+5 points) Guide – increase range to 18”. Eldritch Storm – range 36” S6 AP- large blast, pinning, vehicles are hit on rear armor and spun in a random direction.
Avatar – Inspiring Presence - Eldar units with line of sight to an Avatar gain stubborn. Wailing Doom has 18” range. Increase the Avatar’s save to 2+. (+15 points)
Warp Spiders – death spinner - 18” range, Surprise Assault – grants infiltrate.
Shining Spear’s – Laser Lance and Star Lance have range 12”.
Warlocks- Conceal – During a friendly shooting phase, if the Warlock passes a leadership check, this unit and units targeting this unit must use the night vision rules during shooting. Conceal cannot affect units mounted on jet bikes or transports, and lasts for one full turn.
Support Weapon Platform – Guardian unit attachment. D Cannon – 24” Sx AP1 H1 (+5 points). Vibro Cannon – 36” S4 AP- H1, pinning, no cover saves. 1d6 hits on each unit along LOS, for each weapon that hits. Vehicles take one glancing hit for each cannon that hits. Shadow Weaver gains the monofilament rule, +5 points.
Spirit Stones become standard equipment on all vehicles.
Shuriken Cannons become standard equipment on Falcons, Wave Serpents, Vypers, and War Walkers. Other weapon upgrades have reduced point cost by 5, 10 for twin linked.
Wraith Lords – 2nd weapon of the same type is no longer twin linked. If a Spiritseer is within 12” of the Wraith lord, the 2nd weapon may target a different unit. Similar point cost reduction for weaponry. Wraith sword is free.
Falcon – BS 4
Vypers – Scout
Swooping Hawks – They may deploy by deep strike first turn.

Shuriken Catapult - The reason I put 18" S3 is mostly moderating it from being 24" S3. Essentially I think 24" S3 Assault 2 is reasonable for the price, but having such long range is touching slightly counter the Eldar nature of being close ranged. The other part is that I wanted Dire Avenger catapult to be +1S, and Storm Bolters on troop choice that can Fire Storm seemed a bit...
Shuriken Cannon - I simply want this weapon to be defensive. Upgrading the under-slung isn't always an upgrade and can work contrary to how you'd use it. Additionally, Eldar have a very large amount of S6, so if you want that you're better off purchasing Scatter or Star.
Star Cannon - Yeah, the armour piercing is dubious whether it's even better than twice as many shots. In fact, it's only worth it if you decrease the chance of saving by 3 die pips or more. This weapon on it's own deserves some discussion I think. S6 AP3 Heavy 1 Blast?

Walkers Fleet - simple form. Also opens up for a future melee-walker type with the same chassis.
Wraiths Fleet - more function than form this time. This is to better support swordlords and since 'guards now have powerfists you may want to assault them.
Wraiths - I might've sneaked it in, but the 1-in-6 of not functioning is removed and replaced with 6-in-6 of being slower instead. Also Spirit Seers are removed, but the over all saturation of psychers improved. They shouldn't be left on their own.
Free exarchs - several marine and imperial guard units get their sergeants completely free, and those aren't just better at fighting but also improve the unit's morale (something Eldar lesser leaders don't). Additionally, I don't think it should be neither punishment nor choice to have a unit leader, all units should have one. The only real conundrum here is what to do with Fire Dragons - just about the only aspect warrior which deserves a bit of extra flat increase to squad cost, but not to ppm cost.

Mind War - I dislike the incessant rolling. I edited it a lot. I think some of the edits it was causing instant death as well.
Eldritch Storm - it's a power without much oomph. If it's going to scatter it should be higher strength or cause additional effects.
Fire Storm - I changed the wording because I dislike it. Blade Storm sounds like a close-combat power. Additionally, I intentionally made the wording difficult 'cause I do NOT wish to see +100% fire power on EMLs Open to suggestions on name, of course. The reason I also gave it to Dark Reapers was simply that their exarch is a selfish ba***d with his powers and he needs to support his unit more. Blade Storm is ideal for Dark Reapers whom do not always get to shoot at a juicy target more than once or twice per game.

Farseer - Yeah, 80 points is too low, I tought I stuck it down to 90 points. The reasoning here is to allow more freedom, but not to punish the player for it too much. The Eldar psychic powers are currently costed to be fair if it's the only one you intend to use, buying more than what you use ends up being too expensive. It's a point of discussion, but I don't think you should take the powers at their face value, but rather consider that each additional power you buy devalues the rest that you have.
Warlock retinue - Nope, not deathstarry at all. It's actually a nerf to the deathstar. You are now severely limited in the number of Warlocks you can have compared to earlier and the Farseer must stay with them. Retinue does give the Farseer overall more protection, though.
Suggestion: Farseer 95 points base, Venerable Farseer +50 points but adds only one spell use and one spell known.

Autarch - Nope, not including the other stratagems. I personally don't think the Autarch needs to go on a power-trip.
Named Characters - Nope, I really mean righteously. I loath named characters.

Wave Serpents - I noted only changes. All squads that could previously choose Wave Serpents would still be able to. The reason for the Assault on the Wave Serpents is simple: Banshees are can openers, what do you do if you machanize a CC army and need fly swatters? Force them to stand around idle for a turn? Force them to run? Having only assault ramps for Banshees severely limits the diversity for this specific type of army and forces an inhomogeneous build.
Falcon - Yes, it's a bit stacking it on, I admit. I see it like this: you sacrifice some protection and the assault ramps to gain the firepower of an additional gun. Take the Wave Serpent and the Falcon and sit them next to each other the way I wrote it. The difference is thus: Falcon costs one heavy weapon more and can fire one heavy weapon more, the Wave Serpent may take Energy Fields for the cost of a heavy weapon, has assault ramp, and has 50% more efficient heavy weapon.
I simply chose to make the difference that one has assault ramp and the other hasn't. Additionally, I didn't want small BAVU Falcons, which simply would be devastating.
Falcon Fire - Yeah, Gorechild, that's a better wording. Guess I'm just leaving it wide open for different heavy weapons on the under-slung.

Howling Banshees - I simply want each unit to also be viable in a non-mechanized environment, although I know scouts is contagious onto dedicated transports. Reducing all models WS to 1 was of course the original plan, but since it now auto-succeeds on a unit that's quite likely to wipe the target out, I felt it was a bit over the top I don't agree with you, Just Dave, that War Shout was more balanced since nearly every advice you'll ever find on it is "it's a waste of points, avoid" - a reasonable compromise would be that it's the EXARCH doing the rolling and not the enemy.
Striking Scorpions - Just Dave, I'm operating under the calculated assumption that Eldar units cost way too much. Haywire Grenades isn't a big change, though, and mostly there to tone down the extreme reliance on Fire Dragons. Plasma Grenades vs Haywire Grenades on AVX/X/10 vehicles we can debate whether glancing hits are worth it over doubled chance of penetrate.
Wraithguard - since they've now got power fists I felt having them as a troop choice would be a bit over-much for Eldar. Iyanden named character is ideal since that army has a very significantly different approach to combat compared to Ulthwé and Biel-Tan, an Iyanden character would shift the army considerably and as such wouldn't be as much a min-max choice.
Harlequins - GW blatantly didn't alter the Harlequins in such a way they needed to fit in to 5th edition due to the CWE codex, and as such they are a gimmick in BOTH codexes. I know I didn't do much, either. With the changes I've suggested, though, they must have a DT since there are no non-DTs able to transport.
Wraithguard Power Fists - Wraithguards are made out of the hardest material in the universe, they carry guns which are described to be of crushing weight, and they tower over the tallest space marines. How their weapons are not ignoring armour is beyond me. Now, doubled strength in melee is a tad much with S5 I admit, but I felt that striking last is sort of fitting - even if not exactly consistent with Wraithlords.

Guardians - BS4 is a throwback to me realizing the new catapult's quite crap. 5-15 is probably the best number, even though I feel it is an odd number to choose. The current codex is very short on information on Guardians in general, but Eldar live a long time and aren't anywhere near the cannon fodder you see in other armies, with Farseers to guide them having experienced Guardians and even aspect warriors surviving to choose new paths in life are not at all unlikely. The gist of the matter is that while they lack the intense training of the short lived humans and the even more short lived fire warrior, the Eldar have significantly longer time of training. Calling them civilians is crude since the entire craftworld is an army ready for mobilization.
I am adamantly against anything that reduces Guardians in points. Fluff should be reflected and fluff should also make "sense"
Rangers - yeah, I'm at a loss for what's good. However, removing the mandatory upgrade felt right, and I sneakily reduced their price by a single point

Jetbikes - Naturally, under-slung upgrades aren't removed. Here's the shuriken problem crystalized, though; Guardians are a basic infantry in desperate need of longer range while Jetbikes are in desperate need to stronger fire power. They don't exactly go hand in hand.

What if Guardian Defenders had a de-sniperized Long Rifle? Say, between 24" and 36" S5 AP5 Assault 1?

Dire Sword - It's a sneaky Force Weapon Toughness test works as well.

Shining Spears - Just Dave, misuse of Hit And Run will get these killed. Point taken on the exarch power, though. I'm just not certain whether the point drop in itself makes them worth it without being thrown an additional bone.
Swooping Hawks - Yup, it's in there, Gorechild. Just Dave, I'm removing the grenade pack for two reasons: it that it doesn't scale with number of models and thus mess up the point balance. On the other hand they only land once now and the squad set up is based on purchasing squads not squad members... The Nightfighting/Barrage is meant to be abused. The indirect fire weapons in the Eldar arsenal aren't used very much and the nightfighting supplies the Eldar army with something it doesn't have at all so far. Gives a neat amount of synergy. Do note, however, that weapon fire range is always drawn from the firing weapon, not the swooping hawks.
Warp Spiders - No, Gorechild, it doesn't include Nightspinner effects. Just Dave, they are used, yes, but often with comment or criticism of being a bit too expensive. Again this is a throw back on the logic that everything in the codex (bar Farseer) is a bit too expensive but I have no clue how much. Maybe 20 points is a better cost?

Vyper - Just Dave, I tend not to look too closely at Space Marines, it hurts my brain. This isn't a dismissal of your reasoning, though, but it's rather that Vypers get eaten alive as soon as something looks at them and open-topped is the number one reason for them being a liability. If you can work tactics enough to force the enemy not to shoot at them they can make their points worth, though, but that's presenting your enemy with more urgent or better targets, or simply counting on his or her inability to fathom the rewards. Like Gorechild I do prefer to take the jetbikes route, though, but I tried to keep it simple

War Walkers - These tend to end up slower. This grace is what makes Vyper Jetbikes even more interesting a route since that'd make the Vypers faster and more able to dodge back at the expense of some firepower (depending on weapon) for a comparable point cost. Again, fleet is mostly there for form, just in case some Eldar youngster thinks "hey let's use these Wraithlord arms on the War Walkers!"

Heavy Support Section - there are plenty of good units in Forge World line up that are good candidates for this section in a regular Eldar codex. Add in Warp Hunter and Shadow Spectres and the section isn't so poorly off.
Dark Reapers - I believe I'd need some playtesting on these, period. I must admit I don't have too much experience with them as is.
Nightspinner - yeah, that I do mean
Wraithlord - I think you will find that two attacks with re-roll on failed to hit is worse than three attacks with no re-roll.

OK, I am not going to respond to this thread now. In all honestly, I disapprove of a vast number of changes you are proposing to the Codex which does not need such over-whelming and sweeping changes IMHO. I apologise as this will come off as rude, but it would've seemed a lot more rude had I responded to the ideas themselves.

I don't want to rain on your parade and my responding to specifics would only serve to aggravate myself and you, so I'm going to leave this thread alone and let you continue as you were...

Good day to you sirs.

As I read this thread, I see many intelligent contibutors, and many creative ideas.

As ithe thread has progressed however, I think it is becoming a wasted effort.

Not that it isn't a very good effort, because it is.

The reason that most of the ideas we have come up will never be used in a codex is because it is too much of a departure from established eldar traits.

See the thing is that you have to write a codex that will be acceptable to everyone. Including the people that are already happy with eldar right now, and everyone that will play against eldar armies.

Please don't take this as a complaint. It isn't. It is just that the number of changes discussed here will make the eldar into a completely different army on the table. The silent majority doesn't want that. They want subtle small changes that are easy to understand and digest, and help the army in games and advance the fluff in an interesting way.

You won't be able to see this new found wisdom by reading the ideas I have expressed here in the thread. I only came to this understanding recently by talking to a couple of very experienced players.

The structure of the army should not change. Stats for 99% of the units should not change. 95% of the weapons should not change. Point costs, and matching abilities to 5th edition rules and 5th edition competitive codices are where the changes should come from.

ArmyC wrote:
The structure of the army should not change. Stats for 99% of the units should not change. 95% of the weapons should not change. Point costs, and matching abilities to 5th edition rules and 5th edition competitive codices are where the changes should come from.

This is a good point - the issue of addressing the imbalances through cost or enhanced abilities (to justify the cost) need to be addressed. However I don't think that additional abilities should not change. If I look at the SM codex for example, there were a number of new and enhanced capabilities that were added that have put the pressure on the codex. If you will note, rarely is cost really brought up in these discussions so that part of a balanced build is never addressed. So I would restate the premise of this blog:

1. Make all eldar choices competitive choices. In this there is an attempt to improve (or reduce costs) of the various types of choices to make them a competitive choice.
2. Follow the fluff of the eldar to make the choices make sense.

As an example of this lets just look at the guardian defender.

Premise: The defender is overpriced an ineffective for the current cost. Problem - survivability, limited range of the catapult.

Solutions: Raise the save to 4+ . Good point it directly addresses the survivability question. Bad point- it puts defenders in the same line as aspect warriors.

Solution: Raise the cat to Assault 2 18" range Directly address the limited effectiveness of a 12" ranged weapon. Bad point - it stomps all over the dire avengers.

Solution: Improve the BS to 4. Bad point it stomps directly over the value of a dire avenger.

Solution: Allow a higher density of weapon platforms. It does address the limited range effectiveness.

While one of these solutions is fine in and of itself. If you combine them, you end up going back to the last Eldar codex and making Dire Avengers not playable.

So what I would recommend would be 5+ save BS 3 and rapid fire catapults - these are not good but it leaves room for Dire Avengers. This addresses the need for additional firepower but also leaves room for a guide seer to greatly enhance their firepower. Now the seconde is to allow 1 free shuriken cannon per 8 guardians (rounded up). This gives them a different role than DAs, also it allows them to come close to the firepower that EJBs can put out there with shuriken cannons. Less manueverability, less resilient but more wounds to insulate them. 20 defenders with 3 shuriken cannons for 160 points is
reasonable with rapid fire yielding 17 S4 shots plus 9 S6 shots at a BS 3. While it doesn't overplay Dire Avengers who put out 22 shots (33 with bladestorm) at S4 with a BS of 4.

The goal is not to make defenders the be-all-end-all choice but it is likewise intended to make them viable.

Well we come full circle.

Rapid fire is not a good idea. It gives essentially no benefit to the defender squad as they must be immobile to have ranger greater than 12". It is completely contrary to eldar mobility. Much better:

Bs3, 5+ sv, 6-12, current price.

1 platform per 6 guardians

catapults are S3 AP5 R24 Assault2.

The catapults will never be effective shooting without the support of a farseer's doom, but they can at least shoot at targets which aren't going to demolish the defender unit the next turn. The entire point of the two platforms is to help guardians chip in to solve the problem of ranged anti tank for the current codex. That being said, the problems with the current codex are, in my mind, as follows:

Guardians
Swooping Hawks
Shining Spears
Warp Spiders
Vypers
Dark Reapers
Heavy Support FoC overpopulation
Rangers
Wraithguard
Storm Guardians
Wraithlords
Autarchs
Psyker nullification
Eldrad
Phoenix Lords
Avatar
Elite Slot (really, the 3x Dragon Wagon 'requirement')

All of these units have problems which either limit their effectiveness or make them too effective. They need to be, in varying degrees, repointed, have their stats adjusted, have their rules adjusted, have their FoC slot adjusted, or have their place in the codex reconsidered.

I agree with some of the previous posters that some of the changes proposed lately are quite absurd. The default position of a change to a unit should be a re-pricing. If no re-pricing of a unit will make it desirable, then further changes should be considered, but changes for the sake of changes is un-needed.

Case in point: The wave serpent. The abilities of this transport are the envy of many marine players. It is, in many cases, as tough as a land raider. The idea that it should have assault capability and cost less than 250 points it pretty absurd. This is a prime example of a unit which is fine in the current codex, aside from the price. Adding assault capabilities to the wave serpent is a bad bad plan.

Example of a unit which needs extreme work: swooping hawks. Point them at 10 ppm and they are still pretty bad. Bad in shooting, bad in assault, not tough. Even if 10 of them cost 100pts, I'd rather have a current guardian unit so at least i can claim an objective with my 100 point investment.

The Avatar is a good example of a unit which needs minor rule tweaking to bring it up to speed. It could endure a complete redesign or massive buff - but why do we need to do that? Much simpler: Fleet, Eternal Warrior, 2+ save.

Agreed with most of the statements.

To simplistically argue the Catapult. Taking a catapult to S3 A2 also impacts on every eldar vehicle. So bikes are going to be putting out 2 TL S3 shots.

I'm not against giving cats the storm bolter profile - I just don't think it is realistic.

Eldar is a Xeno codex, it is therefore required to be inferior to imperials in most meaningful ways - thats just the way it is.

So, I'd rather have S4 AP5 R24 Assault2, but I don't think we'll get it, so S3 is much more likely.

And, R24 brings it in line with the shuriken cannon, which is great for jetbike squadrons - they become very mobile and shooty, as opposed to as currently, when they require much fiddling with JSJ, and sniping with just the cannons.

Gwyidion wrote:I'm not against giving cats the storm bolter profile - I just don't think it is realistic.

Eldar is a Xeno codex, it is therefore required to be inferior to imperials in most meaningful ways - thats just the way it is.

So, I'd rather have S4 AP5 R24 Assault2, but I don't think we'll get it, so S3 is much more likely.

And, R24 brings it in line with the shuriken cannon, which is great for jetbike squadrons - they become very mobile and shooty, as opposed to as currently, when they require much fiddling with JSJ, and sniping with just the cannons.

Alright so you have just made my army be EJB. 12" move + 24" range + 6 " assault jetbike move. I have the ability to field 12 bikes, firing off 12 S6 shots and 16 TL S3 shots out to 24" range. So 6 S6 hits and 12 S3 hits... tack on a doom seer and I should be averaging around 12 wounding shots a turn and not allow an opponent to get within 24" range. Sounds like our simple fix will make EJB the choice to spam and abuse. That is my primary reason for leaving it S4 and making it rapid fire 18". The idea of a guardian defender needing mobility is contrary to me. If you want mobility, you take the DAs that is it. If however you want an overwhelming ability... walk 20 guardians within 12" and rapid fire them while still unloading your platforms. I don't argue that the nature of Eldar is mobility, just that I will argue that a DEFENDER needs mobility. You are still mobile if your primary is the bright lances or pulse lasers shooting at vehicles or infact still being able to move and put out 12 S6 shots out to 36" range is pretty good.

I don't think that EJB list is overpowered - you're still paying ... how many? ppm for a MEQ save that basically can't get cover on those stands?

Not to mention if they ever get caught in CC you can write them off.

In my mind, you take guardians to work in the back field, and you take DAs to be mechanized troops that can pile out and lay down a hail of fire.

I also support bladestorm adding rending to ASCs, and adding a rule making Def. guardian platforms disallow taking transports.

I guess my view is that DAs are fine as they are. Heck they along with fire dragons seem to define every competitive eldar build. So given the premise that DA are fine as they exist today in both power and cost, I am arguing that the guardian fixes need to take that into account and not push us into enhancements to DAs to keep them competitive.

I think the reason DAs define competitive builds is because they form the cheapest scoring cargo for a tank. The "most WAAC" list I've seen most people agree on is spammed 5-man DA squads with spammed FD squads all in wave serpents and falcons. DAs could use a boost, just to keep up with inflation.

Gwyidion wrote:Well we come full circle.

After god know's how many posts over two threads it was going to happen eventually
It seems to be one topic that gets alot of debate going though, to me this suggests that its one of the main problems.

my suggestion:

Defender Guardians: 75 points

Stats: Warlock (as now), Guardians WS/BS3 T3 5+

Unit size: 5 Guardians, 1 Warlock, 1 Shuriken Cannon weapon platform

Special Rules: Fleet

Wargear:Shuriken catapult R18" S4 Assault 2

Options: Up to 5 more guardians may be purchased for 8 points per model, If all 5 additional guardians are taken, another Shuriken Cannon weapons platform may be taken for free.
Any shuriken cannon weapons platform may be upgraded to: Star cannon (x points), scatter laser (x points) ect ect...
The warlock may take any of the options from the warlock entry.
If the unit includes 2 heavy weapons, they may both be replaced with a single D-Cannon for x points, Vibro cannon for x points ect...
May take WS dedicated transport.

Unit can't fire heavy weapons if it moved, Heavy weapons take up 1 transport capacity, D-cannon's ect take up 2.

Dire Avengers: 80 points

Stats: As now (BS/WS4 4+) 5++ from shimmershield

Unit size: 5 Dire Avengers, 1 Dire Avenger Exarch

Special Rules: Fleet, Aspect Warrior

Wargear:Shuriken catapult R18" S4 Assault 2, Exarch has shimmershield + 2 catapults

Options: Up to 6 more Dire Avengers may be purchased for 12 points per model
The Exarch may take any of the following powers: Bladestorm (as now), Defend (as now)
May take WS or Falcon dedicated transport

Aspect Warrior - unit can regroup as long as it is above 25% of its starting strength.

Lets simplify our arguement.

Shruriken Catapult - 18" A2 This is the base DA Catapult and combined with their BS, makes them particularly deadly. All this for 12 pts

Shuriken Catapult - 12" A2 The guardian weapon. With guide it can still be deadly but it defnitely suffers when you consider orc shootas were 24" Rapid Fire when this first came out. Between the 5th Ed running and the overwhelming power of HTH in 5th ED. This just seems underpowered for the cost.

So the choices are:

18" A2 S4 - make all of them equal counting on the difference in BS to show the difference of aspect warriors or guardians. Risk potentially making bikes and vehicles have too much firepower combined with their mobility. This runs the risk of making Guardians to powerful and probably should result in an increase in cost.

18" Rapid Fire S4 - It provides the additional range but at the cost of mobility. Sure you can move the defenders back but then you get no fire because you go down to 12" range. This provides a boost to every vehicle and EJB but not as overwhelming as the A2 S4 variety.

18" A1 S4 - well it gives them the range but does not provide a mass effect of firepower. Potentially good for guardians but it is an absolute nerf for EJB and vehicle mounts.

18" A2 S3 - makes them equal in range to DA but lowers the S to 3 so they will not be as effective. Still provides the range to EJB and vehicle mounts but is definitely not that impressive. Other dislike - is that it differentiates the catapult as a higher powered round available for DAs.


My choice in order would be. 18" Rapid Fire, 18" A2 S3, 18" A2 S4, 18" A1 S4. This improves the defender but does not make it a mobile threat - placing more emphasis on the weapons platforms within the unit but also providing a still nasty punch.

Fluff explanation: A Dire Avenger is following the path of the warrior and this allows him/her to become one with his catapult. This allows for accurate fire without any hesitation. Thus in the hands of a dire avenger a catapult yields a ROF 2 Assault 18". Defenders, EJB and the like all have the same catapult but not the same skill with the weapon. This allows them to accurately fire out to 18" but they must be stationary but once they get the enemy to point blank range, the ability to fire off deadly accurate fire goes up.

My idea

Regular Shuriken Catapult
18" S4 AP5 Assault 2

Dire Avenger Shuriken Catapult
18" S4 AP5 Assault 2, rending