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2014/12/24 03:51:12
Subject: I really hope they ditch the repentia and penitent engines from SoB
I find it odd that people would assume that Sisters of Battle would somehow appeal to feminists more than the population as a whole.
You realize you're talking about bondage nuns with guns, right? Feminists are often really heavily split over the topic of sex-positivism as it is, never mind when the thing in question is explicitly designed by some gakky artist who just wants to insert his kinks in to a board game.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/24 03:52:27
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/12/24 04:32:35
Subject: I really hope they ditch the repentia and penitent engines from SoB
That's the thing about censoring Kinks, it's like anti-biotics. People grow to like what they see. You might be able to stop them from liking 1 thing, but they'll just learn to like something else.
If you forced all women to wear Burkah's (or your non-sexually threatening outfit of choice), then a whole generation will develop a Burkah fetish.
You can't stop Repentia or Sisters from being sexually appealing to someone.
Also I'm not seeing the Bondage in the SoB, some depictions of their power armour may look like a Corset, but it lacks the restraint and posterior correction that makes a Corset little more than fashion statement. Their armour isn't even that form fitting and doesn't exaggerate their figure. Repentia get a little closer to the mark, but they're dedicated to they're theme. They're Sexy in the same sense that Mel Brooks is sexy in the Passion of the Christ, not scantily clad Cheesecake in battle damaged outfits yet immaculate in body and skin.
Remember when Women's shoulder pads were in style?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/24 04:58:36
I love that Sister Din has a Psyker icon on her left paldron, denoting her as a Psychic mutant. Oh how the Sisters have changed!
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
2014/12/24 12:13:01
Subject: I really hope they ditch the repentia and penitent engines from SoB
jeffersonian000 wrote: I love that Sister Din has a Psyker icon on her left paldron, denoting her as a Psychic mutant. Oh how the Sisters have changed!
SJ
Back then that didn't really mean what it does now.
2014/12/24 12:13:34
Subject: I really hope they ditch the repentia and penitent engines from SoB
ionusx wrote: they would never get within ten feet of a house without some women looking at them in disgust and taking to tumblr to vent their rage.
You do realize that this has never ever stopped any company from releasing a product, and that only the most gullible element of the Gamergate crowd would believe otherwise, do you not?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/12/24 12:46:37
Subject: I really hope they ditch the repentia and penitent engines from SoB
Lynata wrote: So, I'm gonna leave my usual set of quotes here:
"With Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, the notion of canon is a fallacy. [...] Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong." -- Gav Thorpe
"It all stems from the assumption that there's a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or 'true' representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth." -- Andy Hoare
"There is no canon. There's a variety of sources, many of which conflict, but every single one is a lens through which we can see the 40K setting." -- Aaron Dembski-Bowden
... bottom line, 40k is what you make of it. The gamers and the readers are supposed to take possession of the setting and shape it as befits their individual preferences and purposes. It took me quite a while to "get this", for like many I came to the franchise believing that everything was supposed to fit together - an "urban myth" that even now is still propagated by some because that's what they were told from other fans ..
I'm a bit confused, though. Isn't the option "everything yet nothing" essentially the same as "things you agree with, nothing more"?
[edit] Oh, I forgot, I should write a bit about how I deal with the subject myself ...
Me, I'm staying as close to the GW studio fluff as possible, meaning the contents of codices, the rulebooks, magazines such as White Dwarf or Citadel Journal (RIP) and the stuff hosted on the various websites (free PDFs and short articles). Aside from me "growing up" with the tone and style of the studio's own writing, I also believe that this approach keeps me more compatible to the majority of future products from this origin than if I were to embrace one of the outsourced outlets of fluff instead, simply because all the GW stuff is written by the same circle of people (aside from the occasional change in personnel that occurs over the years), compared to the ideas and interpretations of the many, many different individual writers that work on novels etc. Many cooks, broth, etc. Even now, after over two decades, you still find references and even straight copied passages of text from the earliest days of the franchise in the newest rulebook. That is a consistency unparalleled by any other source of fluff, and I'm all for consistency.
Last but not least, even with the "laissez-faire" approach that GW has taken on the setting, it seems that people - including other authors - tend to look to GW for orientation first. This can be witnessed on outsourced material quickly picking up on, for example, the "Newcrons", rather than ignoring this pseudo-retcon. This exchange of ideas actually works both ways, but GW seems notably less likely to adopt something from BL (etc.) than the other way around. And don't count on seeing the contents of one BL novel referenced in another, except perhaps when they're part of a series .. and even then you'll have conflicts.
When it comes to GW sources, I'm also going with "newer source overrides older source" in case of any contradictions that cannot be worked around.
That doesn't mean that I do not incorporate anything that has not been printed elsewhere into my own personal interpretation of the 41st millennium, however. There are a number of aspects from various novels and games that I have adopted into my perspective as well, all depending on how cool I subjectively thought they were, as well as (perhaps even more important) how well they fit in or can be made to fit in. In this, I do not incorporate the entire product but just the things I liked.
The cherrypicking from non-GW sources is something I rarely discuss here, however, simply because that is even more personal and subjective than my preference for GW fluff, which I also regard as a sort of "common ground" between us. So, whenever I'm posting about fluff, consider it to be referring to GW material. Any exceptions to this will be specially marked by me, and usually take the form of suggestions of something to potentially draw inspiration from if the reader likes what he or she sees.
It also fits in quite well with the whole "Shave off 90% Time-lapse" theory you had =)
DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage.
Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass.
2014/12/24 14:24:06
Subject: I really hope they ditch the repentia and penitent engines from SoB
jeffersonian000 wrote: I love that Sister Din has a Psyker icon on her left paldron, denoting her as a Psychic mutant. Oh how the Sisters have changed!
SJ
Back then that didn't really mean what it does now.
No, it always meant "Psyker". It's just that it represented Sister Sin's role as an Anti-Psyker battlefield Police officer, which way predates any association with the Ecclesiarchy. My old "Gabs, power armored adventure w/ Bolter and sword" has the same Psyker icon on her left shoulder, looking just like Sister Sin (only with a Mohawk instead of a Wipple).
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
2014/12/24 14:46:14
Subject: I really hope they ditch the repentia and penitent engines from SoB
ionusx wrote: they would never get within ten feet of a house without some women looking at them in disgust and taking to tumblr to vent their rage.
You do realize that this has never ever stopped any company from releasing a product, and that only the most gullible element of the Gamergate crowd would believe otherwise, do you not?
Preeeeeeetty much what I was thinking... Somebody isn't biased or unwilling to empathize with the other side at all. Most feminists probably wouldn't give enough of a damn about 40k to actually do anything about it - sexy-ing them up though might cost GW sales though. We've already had a few anecdotes in this thread about actual women who didn't go into 40k because of the exaggerated sexiness of the SOB models.
jeffersonian000 wrote: I love that Sister Din has a Psyker icon on her left paldron, denoting her as a Psychic mutant. Oh how the Sisters have changed!
SJ
Back then that didn't really mean what it does now.
No, it always meant "Psyker". It's just that it represented Sister Sin's role as an Anti-Psyker battlefield Police officer, which way predates any association with the Ecclesiarchy. My old "Gabs, power armored adventure w/ Bolter and sword" has the same Psyker icon on her left shoulder, looking just like Sister Sin (only with a Mohawk instead of a Wipple).
ionusx wrote: they would never get within ten feet of a house without some women looking at them in disgust and taking to tumblr to vent their rage.
You do realize that this has never ever stopped any company from releasing a product, and that only the most gullible element of the Gamergate crowd would believe otherwise, do you not?
Preeeeeeetty much what I was thinking... Somebody isn't biased or unwilling to empathize with the other side at all. Most feminists probably wouldn't give enough of a damn about 40k to actually do anything about it - sexy-ing them up though might cost GW sales though. We've already had a few anecdotes in this thread about actual women who didn't go into 40k because of the exaggerated sexiness of the SOB models.
I've seen some guys who felt the same way too.
Basically the boob plate is the biggest visual short coming for Sisters in most people's eyes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/24 16:40:49
2014/12/24 16:49:19
Subject: I really hope they ditch the repentia and penitent engines from SoB
Considering that it's the only hat tipped to their femininity, that's mostly interesting.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
2014/12/24 17:40:01
Subject: I really hope they ditch the repentia and penitent engines from SoB
I really think it's the general culture and some of the gamers that put women off, not the Sisters of Battle range which I know several women to have liked.
2014/12/24 17:56:31
Subject: I really hope they ditch the repentia and penitent engines from SoB
ionusx wrote: they would never get within ten feet of a house without some women looking at them in disgust and taking to tumblr to vent their rage.
You do realize that this has never ever stopped any company from releasing a product, and that only the most gullible element of the Gamergate crowd would believe otherwise, do you not?
Preeeeeeetty much what I was thinking... Somebody isn't biased or unwilling to empathize with the other side at all. Most feminists probably wouldn't give enough of a damn about 40k to actually do anything about it - sexy-ing them up though might cost GW sales though. We've already had a few anecdotes in this thread about actual women who didn't go into 40k because of the exaggerated sexiness of the SOB models.
I've seen some guys who felt the same way too.
Basically the boob plate is the biggest visual short coming for Sisters in most people's eyes.
Oh that's a good point, especially the torpedotits on the Mistress and the Canoness. That wouldn't be too difficult to tone down and even keep it reasonably feminine-looking still.
Damn, this is making me want to draw up some concept art.
Furyou Miko wrote: Considering that it's the only hat tipped to their femininity, that's mostly interesting.
The problem is the lack of practicality annoys some and the size annoys others. Basically they aren't bad per say but could be better. And with better molding tech and detail levels there are ways to make the look more feminine that don't just rely on the boobs (better face sculpts for example).
2014/12/24 19:21:13
Subject: I really hope they ditch the repentia and penitent engines from SoB
Furyou Miko wrote: Considering that it's the only hat tipped to their femininity, that's mostly interesting.
And with better molding tech and detail levels there are ways to make the look more feminine that don't just rely on the boobs (better face sculpts for example).
Good sculpting would be enough - just look at the Diaz' Daemonettes!
Sure, there are breasts, but the model is clearly feminine despite the monstrous elements.
Irony: the extradimensional demon of lust & excess has more realistically sized bosoms than the armored space nuns.
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
On the other hand, those actually are the daemon's breasts, where the Sororitas armour bears no relation to what's inside it.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
2014/12/24 22:48:03
Subject: I really hope they ditch the repentia and penitent engines from SoB
Yeah, the best theory I've heard about Sororitas boobplate is that each cup is detachable and contains communications equipment.... Someone drew a cartoon of it in use once.
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
SisterSydney wrote: Yeah, the best theory I've heard about Sororitas boobplate is that each cup is detachable and contains communications equipment.... Someone drew a cartoon of it in use once.
I think we should go back to how Repentia are cool.
And Penitent engines are cool too.
And i think that they're part of the Sisters of Battle both in theme and in fluff.
Hear Hear,
DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage.
Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass.
2014/12/24 23:47:18
Subject: I really hope they ditch the repentia and penitent engines from SoB
JohnHwangDD wrote:Good sculpting would be enough - just look at the Diaz' Daemonettes!
Sure, there are breasts, but the model is clearly feminine despite the monstrous elements.
By being essentially naked, with form fitting leg armor and in a silly cheesecake pose?
I thought that was what you guys have been arguing you don't want, lol.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
Veteran Sergeant wrote: I thought that was what you guys have been arguing you don't want, lol.
Who is “you guys”? I know I want bulky yet baroque armor, and belligerent poses.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/25 00:26:36
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/12/25 00:32:50
Subject: I really hope they ditch the repentia and penitent engines from SoB
I think the daemonette was just being offered as an example of "hey, you can do a clearly feminine model without megaboobs."
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: I thought that was what you guys have been arguing you don't want, lol.
Who is “you guys”?
I know I want bulky yet baroque armor, and belligerent poses.
So then "you guys" includes you...
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/12/25 08:23:01
Subject: I really hope they ditch the repentia and penitent engines from SoB
How about this for the Penitent Engine? It's a Monstrous Critter with unusual stats (since the "pilot" is literally mounted on the front, totally exposed, albeit pumped full of drugs, and so really is not tougher than a person and should be killable by small-arms fire).
This way the pilot can be killed by lasgun fire, but it takes a lot of it, but a melta or krak missile will blow up the whole construct (which looks pretty flimsy).
WS 3 BS 3 S 5 T 4 W 3 A 2 I 4 Ld 7 Sv 5+
Special Rules: Fearless, Furious Charge, Feel No Pain, Fleet, Rampage
Wargear
Two heavy flamers
Two buzz saws
***
Buzz saws
S +2 AP 4 Shred, Specialist Weapon
Cost: Cheap (50 points?). Available in squadrons of, I dunno, 3? More?
---
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
-- 
Most feminists probably wouldn't give enough of a damn about 
~1660
