I love catching tweets from @TheRickGrimes, which just tweets out humorous things relating to the character. From this Sunday? "Thanks for giving me space while I went searching for my dead slut wife."
Alfndrate wrote: I love catching tweets from @TheRickGrimes, which just tweets out humorous things relating to the character. From this Sunday? "Thanks for giving me space while I went searching for my dead slut wife."
Does anyone else think Myrle is still working for the governor? that fight scene seemed staged and the governor seemed pleased that those two escaped together.
he loves it when a plan comes together?
And now there he is with a man inside the prison, just like those two talked about earlier.
sirlynchmob wrote: Does anyone else think Myrle is still working for the governor? that fight scene seemed staged and the governor seemed pleased that those two escaped together.
he loves it when a plan comes together?
And now there he is with a man inside the prison, just like those two talked about earlier.
I'd like to hope that Merle is not going to have "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal" said to him, as that would seem just a tad bit too cliched
Merle doesn't strike me as the type to do a suicide mission. And let's be honest, he beat the hell out of Glen, nearly killed Michone, and stood by while Maggie was tortured. He's nuts but in his own way reasonable.
Who would honestly think he'd have a chance at being accepted into the group? To many variables would have to fall into place for it to work out.
Not saying he won't betray later for his own advantage, just that it's not a conveluted plot to do so from the beginning. He seems genuine when he's telling Darryl that the govenor most likely already killed his friends because that's the type of man he is.
With all the plot twists so far, I really wouldn't be surprised if Merle found some place in the group. First of all his character is the guy you love to hate, even more so than the governor, and Rooker is an awesome actor. The series is all about how the circumstances completely changes morality and people and their relationships, you have good guys turning bad... good going insane... many different transformations of character. Merle is a donkey cave but they are trying to flesh out his character more, exploring the scared (abused) kid that is inside and defines his personality.
Hulksmash wrote:Merle doesn't strike me as the type to do a suicide mission. And let's be honest, he beat the hell out of Glen, nearly killed Michone, and stood by while Maggie was tortured. He's nuts but in his own way reasonable.
.
He also happily attacked Daryl at the start to try and save his own hide
Meade wrote:With all the plot twists so far, I really wouldn't be surprised if Merle found some place in the group. First of all his character is the guy you love to hate, even more so than the governor, and Rooker is an awesome actor. The series is all about how the circumstances completely changes morality and people and their relationships, you have good guys turning bad... good going insane... many different transformations of character. Merle is a donkey cave but they are trying to flesh out his character more, exploring the scared (abused) kid that is inside and defines his personality.
The Governor at the very least has some good intentions behind his actions, Merle just seems to be evil for evil's sake at this point
I hope the show doesn't try to outsmart itself and have Merle as a double agent. Even though Merle will probably end up joining the group the odds of that happening from the Govenor's point of view are very low.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I hope the show doesn't try to outsmart itself and have Merle as a double agent. Even though Merle will probably end up joining the group the odds of that happening from the Govenor's point of view are very low.
I'll preface by noting I didn't see Usnday's episode yet.
It would be interesting to actually have Merle go Mano O Mano with the Governor.
I personally can't see Merle surviving much longer. I hope that he and Daryl settle their brotherly bond thing so that it doesn't ruin Daryl's character, but at the same time a hero's death would be acceptable, perhaps buying the group time to flee the prison...
Alfndrate wrote: I'm not quite sure what the governor's good intentions are...
Well initially he was trying to defend a piece of civilisation in the form of woodbury, maybe he was a bit harsh on accepting new people but he knew they wouldn't be able to cope with the excess mouths. His intentions were good but his execution and method is what lead him on the path to insanity
I think nearly all major characters have had some development in the show, and changed from what they originally were. It certainly isn't a sign that they will be leaving the show. Although I seem to recall T-dog being pretty one dimensional.
Merle got brought back from an entire season being gone, I really think they are trying to milk his character and do something with it. Although the great thing about the story is that at any time, any major character could go.
The governor, in his conversations with Andrea, believes that he has some special ability, to be ruthless and to kill, beyond what normal people possess that is going to allow him to rebuild civilization. In his own mind he thinks he is the good guy.
Only the worst written characters do evil things because "they are evil", even villains in comics like Dr. Doom are trying to gain power to mould the world into their vision because they believe it will do everyone good
Alfndrate wrote: I'm not quite sure what the governor's good intentions are...
Well initially he was trying to defend a piece of civilisation in the form of woodbury, maybe he was a bit harsh on accepting new people but he knew they wouldn't be able to cope with the excess mouths. His intentions were good but his execution and method is what lead him on the path to insanity
I was gonna say, the whole killing the downed helicopter pilot and keeping his head seemed a little bonkers... and killing the guy was definitely a bad thing... As well as what he implied he would do to Maggie if she didn't give up the group's location.
Alfndrate wrote: I'm not quite sure what the governor's good intentions are...
Well initially he was trying to defend a piece of civilisation in the form of woodbury, maybe he was a bit harsh on accepting new people but he knew they wouldn't be able to cope with the excess mouths. His intentions were good but his execution and method is what lead him on the path to insanity
I was gonna say, the whole killing the downed helicopter pilot and keeping his head seemed a little bonkers... and killing the guy was definitely a bad thing... As well as what he implied he would do to Maggie if she didn't give up the group's location.
Of course, didn't Rick's group do the same thing to the kid on the farm?
It would be interesting to think about what the survivor demographics would be, if one group discovers there's another group of actual survivors in reachable distance. In post zombie world I'd think one strong reeaction would be to go meet them, especially as both are in relatively secure locations.
Which kid? Sophie? She had already turned, I'm talking about the pilot that survived the crash and was taken back to Woodbury for treatment. None of his wounds were life threatening or from bites...
Alfndrate wrote: Which kid? Sophie? She had already turned, I'm talking about the pilot that survived the crash and was taken back to Woodbury for treatment. None of his wounds were life threatening or from bites...
Alfndrate wrote: Which kid? Sophie? She had already turned, I'm talking about the pilot that survived the crash and was taken back to Woodbury for treatment. None of his wounds were life threatening or from bites...
Alfndrate wrote: Which kid? Sophie? She had already turned, I'm talking about the pilot that survived the crash and was taken back to Woodbury for treatment. None of his wounds were life threatening or from bites...
I think he means the kid they were interrogating.
Yes indeedy.
First half or second half of the second season, I will admit that I didn't see the first half, and I don't really remember much of the second half
Though I think in today's day and age, the fact that Maggie was forced to disrobe so the Governor could show his physical dominance over her, not to mention the implied rape that would happen makes him a wee bit more evil in my book. I don't even consider people in film or tv threatening death if they don't talk as too horrible of an act (yes it is still bad), because it's a technique you see used by both the good guys and the bad guys, sexual assault seems saved for the bad guys. I mean in Taken, Liam Neeson stabbed a guy in the legs with two giant nails before electrocuting him, and then leaving the power going after he left...
Alfndrate wrote: Which kid? Sophie? She had already turned, I'm talking about the pilot that survived the crash and was taken back to Woodbury for treatment. None of his wounds were life threatening or from bites...
I think he means the kid they were interrogating.
Yes indeedy.
First half or second half of the second season, I will admit that I didn't see the first half, and I don't really remember much of the second half
Though I think in today's day and age, the fact that Maggie was forced to disrobe so the Governor could show his physical dominance over her, not to mention the implied rape that would happen makes him a wee bit more evil in my book. I don't even consider people in film or tv threatening death if they don't talk as too horrible of an act (yes it is still bad), because it's a technique you see used by both the good guys and the bad guys, sexual assault seems saved for the bad guys. I mean in Taken, Liam Neeson stabbed a guy in the legs with two giant nails before electrocuting him, and then leaving the power going after he left...
Is it an ends to a means sort of thing?
It's basically this... where is "that line" when you're distinguishing between Survival and Evilness?
The governor had no reason to suspect that Rick's group would attack the town, and therefore his survival was not hinging on the knowledge of Rick's group. Has that changed now? It could have, but I highly doubt it. Rick's group is just trying to survive and is distrustful of most people around them, but they're not looking to attack people unless they threaten their ability to survive. Being a near a town isn't a threat, and thus Rick's group would have no reason to attack the town. They did attack to get their people back.
Also what happened to the people that got into the prison through the tombs? I didn't see them this episode.
The thing is the people of woodbury are the means to an end. The Govener really could care less, except they serve a purpose. He's a bad guy all around. Maybe my view is clouded my the comic book version, but I don't think The Governor ever had anything but selfish intentions.
Andrew1975 wrote: The thing is the people of woodbury are the means to an end. The Govener really could care less, except they serve a purpose. He's a bad guy all around. Maybe my view is clouded my the comic book version, but I don't think The Governor ever had anything but selfish intentions.
His intentions were to make something in this hellhole, also to see if he could get some semblance of his "daughter" did we ever establish in the show that Penny in the show is the same as Penny in the comic?
Well (This is attempting his POV) the military would roll into town push around the villagers and take power for themselves, ergo taking his away from him.
And besides the national guard convoy were freaked out by the apocalypse and would be tired and happily accept another living person
From what I can tell from the comics, is that he is just as much of an evil person in the comics, and that penny isn't his daughter in the comic series.
I've seen more of the show than I have read of the comics.
There are two books which have been released relating the The Governor called Rise of the Governor and The Road to Woodbury. You get a good idea of why The Governor is the way he is after reading those. They detail his survival just after the apocolypse and how he came to be the leader of the town. Worth the read if you like the comics and show.
In the comic he is ridiculously evil. His pupose is to be evil. He's a psychopath.
He's more nuanced in the show. Another take is that the TV show will show how he became super evil rather than the comic were when they meet him he's already evil.
TV show Rick is a bit a douche quite frankly and not even a good leader at this point (which is the opposite of the book)..Still I find the Govenor more evil because he is basically a maruader who goes around killing everyone so he can steal their stuff. That's pretty much the only thing Rick's group can say they have the morale high ground on.
I assumed he attacked the army convoy because he was threatened by others not loyal to him, that would usurp his authority (soldiers sworn to defend the constitution, without the ruthlessness he believes is needed to survive the zombiepocalypse). You also don't know his background, and what other rogue groups he may have faced. I doubt woodbury would have grown to the size it was without the gov taking in at least some stragglers, but usually those he could manipulate and would be subservient to him, like Merle.
Granted the gov is a pretty ruthless character, but his relationship with zombie-daughter shows that he does have some sort of compassion, rather than a straight up psychopath. He pretty much was doing the same thing that Hershel was. I see him as more motivated by revenge and personal animosity than anything else.
In Battlestar Galactica terms, the governor (in the TV series at least) is a bit like Admiral Cain, who tipped over the edge of ruthlessness (sexual assault and killing innocent civilians)... even though it could have been considered a 'rational' move from a certain perspective... while the protagonists chose to make stupid decisions but kept their humanity intact.
Infreak wrote: There are two books which have been released relating the The Governor called Rise of the Governor and The Road to Woodbury. You get a good idea of why The Governor is the way he is after reading those. They detail his survival just after the apocolypse and how he came to be the leader of the town. Worth the read if you like the comics and show.
I'm not going to read the comics so spoiler it for me.
I think he attacked the army patrol because he wanted their stuff. And if everything didn't go screwy he would have just killed everyone in the prison and took all their stuff too. Merl was like the head of his scavenger/murdering team.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I think he attacked the army patrol because he wanted their stuff. And if everything didn't go screwy he would have just killed everyone in the prison and took all their stuff too. Merl was like the head of his scavenger/murdering team.
Could see that. Its time honored tribal tradition. Just thinking taking on the army has a very high threat level.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I think he attacked the army patrol because he wanted their stuff. And if everything didn't go screwy he would have just killed everyone in the prison and took all their stuff too. Merl was like the head of his scavenger/murdering team.
Could see that. Its time honored tribal tradition. Just thinking taking on the army has a very high threat level.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I think he attacked the army patrol because he wanted their stuff. And if everything didn't go screwy he would have just killed everyone in the prison and took all their stuff too. Merl was like the head of his scavenger/murdering team.
Could see that. Its time honored tribal tradition. Just thinking taking on the army has a very high threat level.
Brian, Phillip, Penny and one of Phillip's freinds are travelling around trying to stay alive and eventually hole up in a large farm house. A group of raiders eventually find them and force them out of the house. Phillip leaves Penny with Brian while he goes to take back the farm house. Penny ends up getting shot while Phillip was gone. Phillip loses his gak and tortures two of the raiders he managed to capture.
They eventually hit the road again (with zombie Penny) and end up in Woodbury. At this point there isn't really any leader in the town. Phillip sneaks Penny into his appartment and goes on night outtings to find things for Penny to eat. One night Brian and Phillips friend confront Phillip outside of town. Phillip and his friend end up dead and a herd attacks the town.
After the herd is dealt with a few ex-national guard living in Woodbury decide take control and are tyrannical. Blake assumes Phillip's identity and pulls off a quick coup d'état killing one and imprisons the other three.
The Road to Woodbury plot summary
Spoiler:
There is a large group of survivors who set up camp in a large field. After a zombie attack, serveral people decide to take their chances on the road. Josh, Lilly, Megan, Scott and Bob.
They eventually end up in Woodbury where Scott goes missing and Bob finds out about Penny but is plied with booze and gifts from the Governor to keep quiet.
The town operates on a barter system and josh works to keep Lily and himself fed. The guy who runs the store (heavy implications of him being rasist) kills Josh over a bag of Josh's belongings claiming that giving them up would clear his debt (which kept increasing regardless of the hours worked). The Governor starts his ring of death. If you do something bad you get to fight to the death in the ring.
Megan is sleeping around the town to get food and drugs. She ends up sleeping with the Governor and ends up seeing Scotts head in a fish tank. Megan loses her gak and ends up killing herself.
Lilly suspects The Governor is the reason for Megan's suicide, is sick and twisted (Ring of Death) and attempts to kill him with the help of the Dr, Martinez and a few others. They obviously didn't kill him, but The Governor let them live on the condition that they do anything he says and not interfere or he will have them killed.
You also find out that The Governor has a very tenious grip on reality. Sort of a schizophrenic identity crisis.
Andrew1975 wrote: The thing is the people of woodbury are the means to an end. The Govener really could care less, except they serve a purpose. He's a bad guy all around. Maybe my view is clouded my the comic book version, but I don't think The Governor ever had anything but selfish intentions.
His intentions were to make something in this hellhole, also to see if he could get some semblance of his "daughter" did we ever establish in the show that Penny in the show is the same as Penny in the comic?
He was trying to build a kingdom for himself. We can see he has very little respect for human life outside of his sheep. He just wants to be a big man, and anything that threatens that must be taken out. That's why he took out the national guard guys. He has all the trappings of a megalomaniac.
Meade wrote: I assumed he attacked the army convoy because he was threatened by others not loyal to him, that would usurp his authority (soldiers sworn to defend the constitution, without the ruthlessness he believes is needed to survive the zombiepocalypse). You also don't know his background, and what other rogue groups he may have faced. I doubt woodbury would have grown to the size it was without the gov taking in at least some stragglers, but usually those he could manipulate and would be subservient to him, like Merle.
Granted the gov is a pretty ruthless character, but his relationship with zombie-daughter shows that he does have some sort of compassion, rather than a straight up psychopath. He pretty much was doing the same thing that Hershel was. I see him as more motivated by revenge and personal animosity than anything else.
In Battlestar Galactica terms, the governor (in the TV series at least) is a bit like Admiral Cain, who tipped over the edge of ruthlessness (sexual assault and killing innocent civilians)... even though it could have been considered a 'rational' move from a certain perspective... while the protagonists chose to make stupid decisions but kept their humanity intact.
I got the feeling he didn't want them back in camp telling how a strongly fortified position with trained guards got over ran. It could create a panic in his home.
Plus as those guys were supposed to be guarding the camp, and they ran with all that equipment, the gov couldn't take the chance and trust them at his camp.
I got the feeling he didn't want them back in camp telling how a strongly fortified position with trained guards got over ran. It could create a panic in his home.
Plus as those guys were supposed to be guarding the camp, and they ran with all that equipment, the gov couldn't take the chance and trust them at his camp.
Yeah, more than that, the people would look to a surviving military force as a vestige of the authority they used to know, and if they military wanted to give orders, it would create a conflict... He would no longer be the 'governor' because the reality is he has no real authority.
The fact they had been overrun just feeds into his megalomania, that he is the sole savior of civilization and that if he is not ruthless, people will die... making him feel heroic.
Byte wrote: What happened to Tyreese and his group?
I just discovered "The Walking Dead Wiki"... O the joy.
They left. Kirkman confirmed it on The Talking Dead. Rick freaked them out.
Well that seemed kind of dumb... though it does make sense... Guess they're sticking to the "one brother at a time" :-\. I liked Tyreese and the girl... could have left the other two dead at the side of the road imo...
Well that seemed kind of dumb... though it does make sense... Guess they're sticking to the "one brother at a time" :-\
Glad I'm not the only one who keeps seeing this trend pop up. And yeah the whole Rick going bonkers and kicking out the able bodied new guys is one of the more assinine and irritating moments of this season thus far.
Well that seemed kind of dumb... though it does make sense... Guess they're sticking to the "one brother at a time" :-\
Glad I'm not the only one who keeps seeing this trend pop up. And yeah the whole Rick going bonkers and kicking out the able bodied new guys is one of the more assinine and irritating moments of this season thus far.
I was going to take bets on how long before Tyreese and the girl were killed.
Also, was the black prisoner a zombie in the past few episodes? I thought they popped a cap in him before they left?
Frazzled wrote: I thought Tyreese was a major character in the comics. Seriously he's gone? Thats nuts.
It has been stated (repeatedly) that Walking Dead TV will not be the same as the comic for several reasons, but a big one is so that comic book fans have something different to watch as well, and can have moments of surprise. It isn't meant to be a transliteration of the comic.
My bet is they end up at Woodbury and have to pick sides. For dramatic reasons and drama.
I'm sure Tyreese will be back. Can't blame him with Crazy Rick being crazy. That was actually a pretty funny scene where Herschel is giving his moving speech about how they should stay and convinces Rick but then he sees Lori and whips out his gun and yells "Get outta here!" and Tyreese was like alright then we're outta here.
The thing that bothers me as time goes on is how the ancillary characters keep getting better and better looking. I know it's just a pet peeve of mine but I just don't see tons of waif like women surviving the apocalypse. Some surely, but it seems like as the show gets more popular, people are looking less and less "real".
Also, way too many bullets being shot. But that I can handle.
DutchKillsRambo wrote: The thing that bothers me as time goes on is how the ancillary characters keep getting better and better looking. I know it's just a pet peeve of mine but I just don't see tons of waif like women surviving the apocalypse. Some surely, but it seems like as the show gets more popular, people are looking less and less "real".
Also, way too many bullets being shot. But that I can handle.
DutchKillsRambo wrote: The thing that bothers me as time goes on is how the ancillary characters keep getting better and better looking. I know it's just a pet peeve of mine but I just don't see tons of waif like women surviving the apocalypse. Some surely, but it seems like as the show gets more popular, people are looking less and less "real".
Also, way too many bullets being shot. But that I can handle.
rule 1: Cardio
The fatties went first
Well I think the bigger question is how are they getting their hair done all the time? Also teeth. It's television though, people have to be pretty. Try going a week or two without a shower without ruining your skin....these people have some resilient skin!
DutchKillsRambo wrote: The thing that bothers me as time goes on is how the ancillary characters keep getting better and better looking. I know it's just a pet peeve of mine but I just don't see tons of waif like women surviving the apocalypse. Some surely, but it seems like as the show gets more popular, people are looking less and less "real".
Also, way too many bullets being shot. But that I can handle.
rule 1: Cardio
The fatties went first
Yes but there's a large amount of people (especially women) that wouldn't fit into fatty or waif territory that would probably last the longest. Think college softball players. Its just a pet peeve TV and all, but its just one of those little things that I have trouble suspending disbelief over. One of the reasons (amongst many others) why I can't watch cop shows. I grew up in a cop family and I know what female cops look like, and they're not at all what you see on TV lol.
Wait, female cops are not all sexy and prettyand still able to take down every giant suspect with their kung fu skills? Next you will be telling me that most male cops look like the Cop from Mike and Molly! Oh wait, come to think of it.
Frazzled wrote: And is it me or is Michonne played really badly?
It's you. Michonne is probably my favorite character.
Tonight's episode was interesting.
They did less of "Rick is insane plot" and that is a good thing. He needs to just get over it and move on, he has 2 kids to take care of and he can't do that while out of his gord.
Heh, The "Governor -V- Negan" debate is a popular one amongst my buddies and myself, I'm a bit on the fence atm as to who's "worse", but Negan is clearly a contender...will be interesting to see if he eventually turns up in the TV series.
I do have to admit I was a bit flabbergasted ( and my flabber seldom gast), at seeing Tyresse and company aiding the Gov ( comic book knee jerk of course) and am very anxious to see how that plays out.
I got bored last night, and started tweeting things Carl was thinking using last night's hashtag #Iwantyou, and it was things like, "#Iwantyou to stop being the leader and start being my dad." or "#Iwantyou to get out of here Andrea, you smell like failure." or "#Iwantyou to have better plot twists, I saw that a mile away."
In regards to Tyreese and his group winding up in Woodbury..
should we start taking odds, on what's going to happen with the tombs?
Alfndrate wrote: I got bored last night, and started tweeting things Carl was thinking using last night's hashtag #Iwantyou, and it was things like, "#Iwantyou to stop being the leader and start being my dad." or "#Iwantyou to get out of here Andrea, you smell like failure." or "#Iwantyou to have better plot twists, I saw that a mile away."
In regards to Tyreese and his group winding up in Woodbury..
should we start taking odds, on what's going to happen with the tombs?
I actually have a few ideas concerning the tombs.
The first would be that Tyreese passes the info on to the Gov. and a "sneak attack" insuess.
Another would be along the lines of , the Gov. attacks the prison and dduring the attack the walkers also breach the prison through the tombs, many character deaths occur and the season ends ( much like season 2) with what's left of the group broken and on the run ( in this scenerio I have a feeling that Andrea will off the Gov.)
Or...The walkers will breach the prison from the tombs prior to any attack from the Gov, forcing Rick and company to abandom the prison and take the fight to Woodbury (in hopes to find a safe haven), season ends with Gov's death ( again my money is on Andrea) and Rick establishing himself as the new leader of Woodbury ( simular to the events in Washington in the comics), this could possiably lead to an introduction of Negans character ( remember the kid that Shane killed group is still out there someplace, and it would be a convieant tie in if it turned out to be the Saviours).
I'm most likely wrong on all counts...
Alfndrate wrote: I got bored last night, and started tweeting things Carl was thinking using last night's hashtag #Iwantyou, and it was things like, "#Iwantyou to stop being the leader and start being my dad." or "#Iwantyou to get out of here Andrea, you smell like failure." or "#Iwantyou to have better plot twists, I saw that a mile away."
In regards to Tyreese and his group winding up in Woodbury..
should we start taking odds, on what's going to happen with the tombs?
Well if one had a choice between the Governator and RIck's Group, I'd take Woodbury. They actually have their act together (or did until Rick attacked). Did they have their act together like that in the comics?
Alfndrate wrote: I got bored last night, and started tweeting things Carl was thinking using last night's hashtag #Iwantyou, and it was things like, "#Iwantyou to stop being the leader and start being my dad." or "#Iwantyou to get out of here Andrea, you smell like failure." or "#Iwantyou to have better plot twists, I saw that a mile away."
In regards to Tyreese and his group winding up in Woodbury..
should we start taking odds, on what's going to happen with the tombs?
Well if one had a choice between the Governator and RIck's Group, I'd take Woodbury. They actually have their act together (or did until Rick attacked). Did they have their act together like that in the comics?
Pretty much, the comunity was well organized and defended, and most of the citizens were...content, of course the Gov. didn't show his "real face" to most of the population, though most knew better than to cross him.
I actually have a few ideas concerning the tombs.
The first would be that Tyreese passes the info on to the Gov. and a "sneak attack" insuess.
Another would be along the lines of , the Gov. attacks the prison and dduring the attack the walkers also breach the prison through the tombs, many character deaths occur and the season ends ( much like season 2) with what's left of the group broken and on the run ( in this scenerio I have a feeling that Andrea will off the Gov.)
Or...The walkers will breach the prison from the tombs prior to any attack from the Gov, forcing Rick and company to abandom the prison and take the fight to Woodbury (in hopes to find a safe haven), season ends with Gov's death ( again my money is on Andrea) and Rick establishing himself as the new leader of Woodbury ( simular to the events in Washington in the comics), this could possiably lead to an introduction of Negans character ( remember the kid that Shane killed group is still out there someplace, and it would be a convieant tie in if it turned out to be the Saviours).
I'm most likely wrong on all counts...
I was thinking along the lines of all three... The Gov rounds up walkers like cattle, and release them into the Tombs. If Rick et al didn't see Tyrees's group enter in, I'm sure they might not see such things happen with the Gov. Granted they didn't know about that hole in the Tombs, so we'll see. And then the Gov proceeds with a frontal assault on the Prison, and either forces the group into the Tombs to try and escape, or force them out in the open.
I actually have a few ideas concerning the tombs.
The first would be that Tyreese passes the info on to the Gov. and a "sneak attack" insuess.
Another would be along the lines of , the Gov. attacks the prison and dduring the attack the walkers also breach the prison through the tombs, many character deaths occur and the season ends ( much like season 2) with what's left of the group broken and on the run ( in this scenerio I have a feeling that Andrea will off the Gov.)
Or...The walkers will breach the prison from the tombs prior to any attack from the Gov, forcing Rick and company to abandom the prison and take the fight to Woodbury (in hopes to find a safe haven), season ends with Gov's death ( again my money is on Andrea) and Rick establishing himself as the new leader of Woodbury ( simular to the events in Washington in the comics), this could possiably lead to an introduction of Negans character ( remember the kid that Shane killed group is still out there someplace, and it would be a convieant tie in if it turned out to be the Saviours).
I'm most likely wrong on all counts...
I was thinking along the lines of all three... The Gov rounds up walkers like cattle, and release them into the Tombs. If Rick et al didn't see Tyrees's group enter in, I'm sure they might not see such things happen with the Gov. Granted they didn't know about that hole in the Tombs, so we'll see. And then the Gov proceeds with a frontal assault on the Prison, and either forces the group into the Tombs to try and escape, or force them out in the open.
That's a strong possiability, I definantly see season 3 ending in a blood bath with at least 3 major characters buying the farm.
EDIT: @ Frazz.
I know somewhere in thhis thread you mentioned that you didn't intend to read the comics, but , given what I can determine about you (based off of the internetz of course) I honestly think you'd enjoy giving them a look.
Alfndrate wrote: Buying the farm?! But they just left that damned place
I would bet that we see Andrea, the Gov, and Herschel or Glenn bite the big one...
Or heaven forbid, Jude Little Ass Kicker
Nice one.
But seriously, I've wondered just how safe Little Ass Kicker is.
Spoiler:
We know she doesn't make it in the comics, but I'm unsure if network TV would allow something so...gruesome to occur, I'm leaning towards no, but ya can never tell.
I think Glenn is safe, and I'm pretty sure Andrea is as well, but as for Herchel, Carol, Beth, Merle ( maybe Daryl) and the Gov. himself, I'd say it's a sfae bet we'll see at least half of them die.
Maybe Beth... I know there is that whole thing, as soon as your character starts to get some development, or you're on the Talking Dead, you're as good as Dead...
Glenn's actor was on it a few weeks ago, and is still alive...
I think the issue with Little Ass Kicker is that she is probably 1 of 2 things keeping Rick from jumping off the deep end and never coming back, with Carl as the second thing.
I'm fairly certain the Gov is on the death list, simply because every major "villain" they' come across has gotten their comeuppance I believe. But I could see Andrea either dying to save him, being betrayed by him, or attempting to join Rick's group, and is put down, thus sparking the final all out assault. She's gotten some character development, and the final minutes of yesterday's episode shows some conflict of interests with her character, especially when it comes to the well being of the Gov... the thing that irks me is that she knows the Gov has a bad streak, and is going down the "grime"-y path of insanity. The fact that he wanted to arm an asthmatic with a gun and prep him for battle was a little crazy, not to mention the fact he was 14... Not everyone is Frazzled! And she was right, he's turned into a dictator (moreso than he was), he's recruiting children to fight, his lackies are even saying fighting instead of helping with defense. So I could see her go, and I would care for maybe a day.
I think Herschel is in a similar situation as Little Ass Kicker, there's not much he can do to defend himself, and as such they may not want to kill him off, but I think Maggie is having issues choosing between Glenn and her father, which isn't a bad thing in a normal life she shouldn't have to, but they have two very different opinions in regards to what they should do. I'm glad that Daryl is back because that takes the leadership mantle off of Glenn, who has... "calmed" down a bit... I mean I was expecting him to try and lay Merle out after that fight for what he did to Glenn in Woodbury...
Idk, at least this season seems better than the last one.
Also like it was said during the preview of the Talking Dead, i didn't know you could do a curb stomping in the woods lol.
Frazzled wrote: I think the most unsafe position you can be is the guy that sort of likes Carol. Odds are you are always going to be toast in just a few episodes.
I really don't see them offing Daryl though... I get that "no one is safe" in such an apocalyptic situation, but he's by far one of the most popular characters, if not the most popular character.
You know I usually hate when people mess with source material......but I don't know, they have done it in such a good way. I'm loving the tyreese thing.
Andrew1975 wrote: You know I usually hate when people mess with source material......but I don't know, they have done it in such a good way. I'm loving the tyreese thing.
As it's been said before, this is to give the comic readers a reason to watch
I've never read the comics, so I don't know how Tyreese and party fit in to the story, but I'm sad that Rick drove them off... I like him and the woman... the other two could get eaten by walkers for all I care.
Near the end of the first half of this season I started to suspect that Andrea was the one who is going to end up killing the Gov and now that we are several episodes in to the second half I, without a doubt, beleive Andrea will be his executioner. During the inevitable assault on the prison Andrea is going to see the Gov's true character and take him out.
I thought about Rick and Co. taking control of Woodbury after the fall of the Gov too Fitzz. It parallels the comics and is different enough that I could see that happening although it would cut out a large protion of the comic post-prison. I mean the prison to Washington trek is enough for another season at least.
I'm very interested to see how the Tombs get used by the Gov for sure.
Heh, The "Governor -V- Negan" debate is a popular one amongst my buddies and myself, I'm a bit on the fence atm as to who's "worse", but Negan is clearly a contender...will be interesting to see if he eventually turns up in the TV series.
I do have to admit I was a bit flabbergasted ( and my flabber seldom gast), at seeing Tyresse and company aiding the Gov ( comic book knee jerk of course) and am very anxious to see how that plays out.
I'd say comic book Govenor. In a way TV Govenor is more like Neegan than Comic Govenor.
It was a good change of pace. I'm getting a little tired of the Woodbury storyline.
This just further convince me that Rick kinda sucks now. That one thing I said Prison town has going morally that Woodbury doesn't is that they weren't marauders that just go around killing and stealing. Rick basically tried to kill someone to steal their stuff this time. At least the Govenor isn't teaching his son that's right too. Also the Govenor actually takes in strangers. Rick did all he could to ignore that man by the road until he was dead. Another important lesson for his kid: "Don't help people because then they'll get killed and you can steal their crap."
Also, Michonne isn't trustworthy enough to live in the prison but it's fine for you to take care of my only son.
Yes, the writers seem to be a bit confused.. I thought that perhaps they left the hitchhiker behind because they didn't want to involve him in their conflict, but then Rick goes and tries to recruit Morgan to the cause.
Morgan btw is completely nutters. Good acting there.
I also enjoyed the change of pace though, It'd be really cool if they possibly did either a)a flashback episode, or b)webisodes of Morgan and Duane after Rick left them in S1.
Lint wrote: Yes, the writers seem to be a bit confused.. I thought that perhaps they left the hitchhiker behind because they didn't want to involve him in their conflict, but then Rick goes and tries to recruit Morgan to the cause. Morgan btw is completely nutters. Good acting there. I also enjoyed the change of pace though, It'd be really cool if they possibly did either a)a flashback episode, or b)webisodes of Morgan and Duane after Rick left them in S1.
I think it goes back to the, "I don't know him, he can hurt me instead of helping me." I think that's why Rick left the backpacker behind. Rick gets to the town and doesn't realize that someone might be living there until they see the traps. They get shot, they end up taking the guy out (thanks Carl...), and they realize it's Morgan, that's when I think Rick rethinks the whole thing about inviting him, since Morgan saved his life. Had it been anyone else, they probably would have tied the guy up outside or just shot him. Instead they zip tie him and leave him in his home (then we have the exchange than we got in the show).
Really awesome episode there, and though I understand why Morgan is the way he is I'd also love to see more of him only because Lenny James is awesome.
Leaving the guy on the side of the road, very understandable why they did that. In a normal civilization it is hard to hitchhike but in a lawless world where other groups may be enemies? Don't think so.
Rick is still below the governor's level, they shot Morgan mainly because he was firing on him and they tried to talk first.
Lint wrote: Yes, the writers seem to be a bit confused.. I thought that perhaps they left the hitchhiker behind because they didn't want to involve him in their conflict, but then Rick goes and tries to recruit Morgan to the cause.
Morgan btw is completely nutters. Good acting there.
I also enjoyed the change of pace though, It'd be really cool if they possibly did either a)a flashback episode, or b)webisodes of Morgan and Duane after Rick left them in S1.
I think it goes back to the, "I don't know him, he can hurt me instead of helping me." I think that's why Rick left the backpacker behind. Rick gets to the town and doesn't realize that someone might be living there until they see the traps. They get shot, they end up taking the guy out (thanks Carl...), and they realize it's Morgan, that's when I think Rick rethinks the whole thing about inviting him, since Morgan saved his life. Had it been anyone else, they probably would have tied the guy up outside or just shot him. Instead they zip tie him and leave him in his home (then we have the exchange than we got in the show).
I wouldn't mind the webisodes either.
well myrle did say the governor had spies along the roads. and here is one lone guy surviving alone just waltzing down the road. ya that's not suspicious.
the talking dead was great though with the caption "no hitchhiking in the zombie apocalypse, but thanks for the backpack"
I think rick see's morgan as himself if continues down his path, which is why he really wants morgan to be OK.
Meade wrote: Really awesome episode there, and though I understand why Morgan is the way he is I'd also love to see more of him only because Lenny James is awesome.
Leaving the guy on the side of the road, very understandable why they did that. In a normal civilization it is hard to hitchhike but in a lawless world where other groups may be enemies? Don't think so.
Rick is still below the governor's level, they shot Morgan mainly because he was firing on him and they tried to talk first.
Rick shot first. Morgan shot a zombie and told them verbally to leave his turf. Then Michonne was like, that's a nice gun he's got there, so Rick tried to kill him.
Meade wrote: Really awesome episode there, and though I understand why Morgan is the way he is I'd also love to see more of him only because Lenny James is awesome.
Leaving the guy on the side of the road, very understandable why they did that. In a normal civilization it is hard to hitchhike but in a lawless world where other groups may be enemies? Don't think so.
Rick is still below the governor's level, they shot Morgan mainly because he was firing on him and they tried to talk first.
Rick shot first. Morgan shot a zombie and told them verbally to leave his turf. Then Michonne was like, that's a nice gun he's got there, so Rick tried to kill him.
eeeh... I'm a little sketchy on the, "Rick tried to kill him." when he shot first. With the grace and accuracy they've been showing, they seem really good at going for the head with little to no trouble, as referenced by the cafe scene later. Carl caps a few of them in the head without any trouble, while on the move. Michonne did say she could get to him, thus Rick probably shot as a distraction.
Meade wrote: Really awesome episode there, and though I understand why Morgan is the way he is I'd also love to see more of him only because Lenny James is awesome.
Leaving the guy on the side of the road, very understandable why they did that. In a normal civilization it is hard to hitchhike but in a lawless world where other groups may be enemies? Don't think so.
Rick is still below the governor's level, they shot Morgan mainly because he was firing on him and they tried to talk first.
Rick shot first. Morgan shot a zombie and told them verbally to leave his turf. Then Michonne was like, that's a nice gun he's got there, so Rick tried to kill him.
eeeh... I'm a little sketchy on the, "Rick tried to kill him." when he shot first. With the grace and accuracy they've been showing, they seem really good at going for the head with little to no trouble, as referenced by the cafe scene later. Carl caps a few of them in the head without any trouble, while on the move. Michonne did say she could get to him, thus Rick probably shot as a distraction.
Apparently zombie heads are magnetic and draw in bullets. They've been terrible shooting at people. Note the millions of rounds missed in the prison attack.
If a guy with an assault rifle in an elevated position has his gun trained on you you better not take a distraction shot.
Infreak wrote: Lets not forget Morgan was telling them to leave their guns and shoes and any other valuables behind. He was essentially trying to rob them.
Infreak wrote: Lets not forget Morgan was telling them to leave their guns and shoes and any other valuables behind. He was essentially trying to rob them.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Rick shot first. Morgan shot a zombie and told them verbally to leave his turf. Then Michonne was like, that's a nice gun he's got there, so Rick tried to kill him.
I'd have to watch it again, but I do remember the thing where he's telling them to leave their guns and shoes... which you assume is a near death sentence in zombie apocalypse.
It's not 'good guy' behavior, but perhaps it is pragmatism, and there is no question they would have killed him if it were anyone else but Morgan. Why leave a guy like that tied up and risk him or his friends coming back at you?
There's also the fact that Rick may not have done this and may have turned back if it were not his town and he still felt he had a right to some of the guns there.
Meade wrote: Really awesome episode there, and though I understand why Morgan is the way he is I'd also love to see more of him only because Lenny James is awesome.
Leaving the guy on the side of the road, very understandable why they did that. In a normal civilization it is hard to hitchhike but in a lawless world where other groups may be enemies? Don't think so.
Rick is still below the governor's level, they shot Morgan mainly because he was firing on him and they tried to talk first.
Rick shot first. Morgan shot a zombie and told them verbally to leave his turf. Then Michonne was like, that's a nice gun he's got there, so Rick tried to kill him.
eeeh... I'm a little sketchy on the, "Rick tried to kill him." when he shot first. With the grace and accuracy they've been showing, they seem really good at going for the head with little to no trouble, as referenced by the cafe scene later. Carl caps a few of them in the head without any trouble, while on the move. Michonne did say she could get to him, thus Rick probably shot as a distraction.
Apparently zombie heads are magnetic and draw in bullets. They've been terrible shooting at people. Note the millions of rounds missed in the prison attack.
If a guy with an assault rifle in an elevated position has his gun trained on you you better not take a distraction shot.
In the assault on the prison rick and daryle weren't there and the rest of the group were caught off-guard then pinned into cover so they couldn't risk showing their heads to get accurate shots
Interesting episode, not a whole lot of action, but it looks like Fitzz and I were decently right about the tombs and the governor, at least from what I saw of the previews.
Good episode, the sumit between Rick and the Gov was well done, put me in mind of Mid East peace talks.
Wondering if the interpersonal "bonding" between Daryl/ Martinez and Herschell/Milton is setting tthe stage for an impending coupe in Woodbury, seems from the trailer for next week at least Andrea and Milton(maybe) will be gunning for the Gov.
With only three episodes left, I'm also begining to wonder if they'll actually be able to wrap up the storyline or if the season will end in a cliffhanger.
FITZZ wrote: Good episode, the sumit between Rick and the Gov was well done, put me in mind of Mid East peace talks.
Wondering if the interpersonal "bonding" between Daryl/ Martinez and Herschell/Milton is setting tthe stage for an impending coupe in Woodbury, seems from the trailer for next week at least Andrea and Milton(maybe) will be gunning for the Gov.
With only three episodes left, I'm also begining to wonder if they'll actually be able to wrap up the storyline or if the season will end in a cliffhanger.
The previews for the next three episodes suggest it'll be decently action packed.
Also, I like how they gave Herschel his leg back lol Must have been a pain for the effects department to keep removing it from every shot.
I've noticed a lot of "from the waist up" shots of old Herschel lately, cuts down on the CGI budget.
I agree, the remaining three episodes are going to be loaded with action, lots of pow pow urrgh to come.
I do have to admit that since the series has taken so many twist from the source material, I find myself second guessing what will happen next quite a bit...not that that's a bad thing mind you...been a while since I was actually "on the edge of my seat" with any series and it's nice for a change.
I'm still putting my money on the prison being over run by walkers and the group eveentually taking over in Woodbury...but we'll see.
I hope they don't take over Woodbury but move on somehow. The series gets boring when they stay in one place. Taking over the prison, Atlanta, the CDC, all exciting. Hershels farm for a whole season, not so much.
FITZZ wrote: I've noticed a lot of "from the waist up" shots of old Herschel lately, cuts down on the CGI budget.
I agree, the remaining three episodes are going to be loaded with action, lots of pow pow urrgh to come.
I do have to admit that since the series has taken so many twist from the source material, I find myself second guessing what will happen next quite a bit...not that that's a bad thing mind you...been a while since I was actually "on the edge of my seat" with any series and it's nice for a change.
I'm still putting my money on the prison being over run by walkers and the group eveentually taking over in Woodbury...but we'll see.
Definitely, unless the Horse Trailer of walkers is for the front yard again.
Also, was it Rick that saw Tyreese in the scope of his rifle in the preview? I know they didn't show it, but the immediate next shot was of Tyreese with these wide eyes...
FITZZ wrote: I've noticed a lot of "from the waist up" shots of old Herschel lately, cuts down on the CGI budget.
I agree, the remaining three episodes are going to be loaded with action, lots of pow pow urrgh to come.
I do have to admit that since the series has taken so many twist from the source material, I find myself second guessing what will happen next quite a bit...not that that's a bad thing mind you...been a while since I was actually "on the edge of my seat" with any series and it's nice for a change.
I'm still putting my money on the prison being over run by walkers and the group eveentually taking over in Woodbury...but we'll see.
Definitely, unless the Horse Trailer of walkers is for the front yard again.
Also, was it Rick that saw Tyreese in the scope of his rifle in the preview? I know they didn't show it, but the immediate next shot was of Tyreese with these wide eyes...
Not sure if it was Rick placing a scope on Tyreese, it could have been.
The depictions of Tyreese in the series is one of those " twist" from source material I mentioned and I'm really interested in seeing what part he'll be playing in the upcoming events.
So many characters that ( again according to source material) should still be alive , have died and others are cast in entirely new directions, so even having read all the books it's damned tricky trying to figure what's going to happen next... I found myself wondering the other night as to if Daryl will end up exitinng in the same manner that Lori did in the comics ( giveen his bond with Little Ass Kicker)...but I'm still doubtfull network TV would let that pass.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So would you guys have sold out Michonne to The Govenor if you were in Rick's position?
No... because, as bat-gak crazy the Govenor is... I wouldn't trust it at all.
Besides, Michoone sorta proved herself in the group...she's one of them.
Sure, I like Michonne too but this is his son and baby daughter in the line of fire soon.
I'm arguing that it doesn't matter...I would've known that even if I had given up Michonne, the Govenor would still attempt to wipe out the prison (as he said later on).
Byte wrote: Daryl is a cash cow for the series. He's not going anywhere.
How do you figure?
I think at this point, the series will deviate quite a bit from the novels...
He is one of the biggest draws on the show. If you don't know this...
Ratings = money in the TV biz friend.
He's also the star of the upcoming Walking Dead FPS as well. Dude is part of the brand now, as much as Rick or Carl as far as the TV series goes. I think out of all the actors in the show, he was the only one that had a fan base from the start, because of his prominent role in Boondock Saints 1+2.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So would you guys have sold out Michonne to The Govenor if you were in Rick's position?
No... because, as bat-gak crazy the Govenor is... I wouldn't trust it at all.
Besides, Michoone sorta proved herself in the group...she's one of them.
Sure, I like Michonne too but this is his son and baby daughter in the line of fire soon.
I'm arguing that it doesn't matter...I would've known that even if I had given up Michonne, the Govenor would still attempt to wipe out the prison (as he said later on).
Yes, the thing is he doesn't really mean it anyway. Afterwards he says to Milton "I just said that so I could betray them on that deal, totally going to betray him!" Kind of wish they didn't have that scene so the choice seems harder.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So would you guys have sold out Michonne to The Govenor if you were in Rick's position?
No... because, as bat-gak crazy the Govenor is... I wouldn't trust it at all.
Besides, Michoone sorta proved herself in the group...she's one of them.
Sure, I like Michonne too but this is his son and baby daughter in the line of fire soon.
I'm arguing that it doesn't matter...I would've known that even if I had given up Michonne, the Govenor would still attempt to wipe out the prison (as he said later on).
That's it exactly. Clearly he's batpoop crazy and violent before Michonne arrives and will be after he eliminates her. The Michonne question is largely irrelevant to the security of Rick's people.
He's clearly in love with his own smarts, and in this case he must mistakenly think Rick is stupid.
Am I the only one who was freaked out the whole time that Glenn & Maggie were out in the cage talking that they weren't keeping an eye out and that a sniper shot was invariably incoming? I was just picturing them kissing when one of the two of them gets shot...and then when that didn't happen and they abandoned their post to get it on, I then figured: 'okay they're going to get attacked now that nobody is keeping watch!'
I think the show has pulled the 'boy who cried wolf' (or the opposite of that perhaps) on me too many times with horrible things occurring in the middle of serene moments that I can never be relaxed and enjoy what's actually going on without thinking that something horrible is just about to happen.
Am I the only one who was freaked out the whole time that Glenn & Maggie were out in the cage talking that they weren't keeping an eye out and that a sniper shot was invariably incoming? I was just picturing them kissing when one of the two of them gets shot...and then when that didn't happen and they abandoned their post to get it on, I then figured: 'okay they're going to get attacked now that nobody is keeping watch!'
I think the show has pulled the 'boy who cried wolf' (or the opposite of that perhaps) on me too many times with horrible things occurring in the middle of serene moments that I can never be relaxed and enjoy what's actually going on without thinking that something horrible is just about to happen.
I thought they were going to get shot at first, but quickly let that thought leave my head once they started making out, I didn't think the makers of the show would scar the audience that badly after what happened with the prisoner and Carol... I just assumed Merle would walk in.
Am I the only one who was freaked out the whole time that Glenn & Maggie were out in the cage talking that they weren't keeping an eye out and that a sniper shot was invariably incoming? I was just picturing them kissing when one of the two of them gets shot...and then when that didn't happen and they abandoned their post to get it on, I then figured: 'okay they're going to get attacked now that nobody is keeping watch!'
I think the show has pulled the 'boy who cried wolf' (or the opposite of that perhaps) on me too many times with horrible things occurring in the middle of serene moments that I can never be relaxed and enjoy what's actually going on without thinking that something horrible is just about to happen.
Didn't really expect either of them to be shot during the "make up" talk , The Carol and Axel scene was only a few episodes ago after all.
I did however expect something to go wrong during Glenn & Maggie's "make up session" in the garage.
too many times with horrible things occurring in the middle of serene moments that I can never be relaxed and enjoy what's actually going on without thinking that something horrible is just about to happen.
Just as you should be. It's a zombie apocalypse afterall!
Am I the only one who was freaked out the whole time that Glenn & Maggie were out in the cage talking that they weren't keeping an eye out and that a sniper shot was invariably incoming? I was just picturing them kissing when one of the two of them gets shot...and then when that didn't happen and they abandoned their post to get it on, I then figured: 'okay they're going to get attacked now that nobody is keeping watch!'
I think the show has pulled the 'boy who cried wolf' (or the opposite of that perhaps) on me too many times with horrible things occurring in the middle of serene moments that I can never be relaxed and enjoy what's actually going on without thinking that something horrible is just about to happen.
I'm with you 100% on this. I was thinking the same thing. Than nothing happened.
It's dawned on me that the problem with this TV show is that....its a TV show. You just know nothing is going to happen with The Govenor till the season finale. In The Talking Dead after show they were literally laughing at the scene where Andrea pulls a knife on the Govenor when he's sleeping. It was just so preposterous that she would kill him there. It was the same with this episode when she pulled a gun on him when he wasn't looking. Not for a second do we beleive she'll shoot him. Sorry to bring up the book again but in there literally anyone can at any moment. Everyone on this show feels completely safe even the "bad guys". Axel doesn't count, he might as well have been wearing a red Star Trek shirt. The white having problems with Thyreese will probably die soon but obviously no one cares. The feeling of overwhelming safeness for the main characters is just not TWD. I fear the show will just continue to tread water till the season finale.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: It's dawned on me that the problem with this TV show is that....its a TV show. You just know nothing is going to happen with The Govenor till the season finale. In The Talking Dead after show they were literally laughing at the scene where Andrea pulls a knife on the Govenor when he's sleeping. It was just so preposterous that she would kill him there. It was the same with this episode when she pulled a gun on him when he wasn't looking. Not for a second do we beleive she'll shoot him. Sorry to bring up the book again but in there literally anyone can at any moment. Everyone on this show feels completely safe even the "bad guys". Axel doesn't count, he might as well have been wearing a red Star Trek shirt. The white having problems with Thyreese will probably die soon but obviously no one cares. The feeling of overwhelming safeness for the main characters is just not TWD. I fear the show will just continue to tread water till the season finale.
What about Dale? That was pretty random and shocking. And for those of us who haven't read the comics, Lori's death was also a pretty huge shock as well (I'm still a little pissed about that).
You are correct that certain characters are certainly too important to a particular storyline to simply be offed randomly, but that HAS to be true in the comic book as well. If you're telling a story and building to a crescendo, then randomly killing someone key to finishing that particular arc kills the story that has been building.
I'd personally say that the Walking Dead has had more ability to kill its characters at a moments notice than any TV show ever made before it, and definitely more than movies because they have the time and luxury to 'recover' from killing a main character by introducing new ones (whereas movies only have 2 hours, so pulling a bait and switch like this is incredibly rare).
yakface wrote: I'd personally say that the Walking Dead has had more ability to kill its characters at a moments notice than any TV show ever made before it,..
Actually, this is pretty common in British television. It's practically a meme on Misfits and MI5 (Spooks) has done it for years.
yakface wrote: I'd personally say that the Walking Dead has had more ability to kill its characters at a moments notice than any TV show ever made before it,..
Actually, this is pretty common in British television. It's practically a meme on Misfits and MI5 (Spooks) has done it for years.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: It's dawned on me that the problem with this TV show is that....its a TV show. You just know nothing is going to happen with The Govenor till the season finale. In The Talking Dead after show they were literally laughing at the scene where Andrea pulls a knife on the Govenor when he's sleeping. It was just so preposterous that she would kill him there. It was the same with this episode when she pulled a gun on him when he wasn't looking. Not for a second do we beleive she'll shoot him. Sorry to bring up the book again but in there literally anyone can at any moment. Everyone on this show feels completely safe even the "bad guys". Axel doesn't count, he might as well have been wearing a red Star Trek shirt. The white having problems with Thyreese will probably die soon but obviously no one cares. The feeling of overwhelming safeness for the main characters is just not TWD. I fear the show will just continue to tread water till the season finale.
What about Dale? That was pretty random and shocking. And for those of us who haven't read the comics, Lori's death was also a pretty huge shock as well (I'm still a little pissed about that).
You are correct that certain characters are certainly too important to a particular storyline to simply be offed randomly, but that HAS to be true in the comic book as well. If you're telling a story and building to a crescendo, then randomly killing someone key to finishing that particular arc kills the story that has been building.
I'd personally say that the Walking Dead has had more ability to kill its characters at a moments notice than any TV show ever made before it, and definitely more than movies because they have the time and luxury to 'recover' from killing a main character by introducing new ones (whereas movies only have 2 hours, so pulling a bait and switch like this is incredibly rare).
The death of Dale was very shocking. The death of Lori was shocking. Mainly, I'm talking about since the death of Lori the show has got into a bit of a rut for me.
As for the comic, no seriously people die randomly all the time. A main character will just be walking down the street talking about what they're going to have for dinner and just get killed.
They have different feel. The comic has more of a documentary feel. The show has more of a Hollywood feel. By which I mean you can tell its building to a crescendo or big finale. That's fine by me, one approach isn't necessarily better than the other they both have their pros and cons. It's just the con of no one important is going to die for quite a while is really hitting me right now. Where's the fear?
Well, I wanted someone to die. I guess Merle's almost a main character.
Mainly, I blame Rick. He's just terrible. Incompetent and delusional. Michonne should kill him for this but for some reason she won't stab him in the eye even though he basically did the same thing The Govenor did. Even used the same guy.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Well, I wanted someone to die. I guess Merle's almost a main character.
Mainly, I blame Rick. He's just terrible. Incompetent and delusional. Michonne should kill him for this but for some reason she won't stab him in the eye even though he basically did the same thing The Govenor did. Even used the same guy.
Except if I remember correctly, Rick never told Merle to do it...
I think Merle explained to her he was acting alone because he knew Rick wouldn't do it.
The moral of the story was he was really a good guy all along, kidnapped Michonne because he didn't want his brother to die (and knew that he cared about the group as well) so in the end he went to kill the governor because he realized it was the only way (or finally faced up to it).
I'll have to admit it wasn't as shocking as the other main character deaths, but then again Amy was the only one that really took me by surprise. It was still entertaining.
I honestly thought Merle was looking for an excuse to die. I mean he was sitting in the car, drinking some booze, and bringing as many zombies as he could with him. I felt like he knew he wasn't going to walk away from that scene.
Also, what do you guys think of the "honor" in the type of death that the governor gave him? I mean okay yes he killed him, but I feel like there is a level of dignity lost by killing him in such a way that he comes back as a walker. It just kind of hit me last night during that final scene.
Like in a world where they all know that if you die, you come back no matter how you died. Like, that's cruel to not give someone the sweet release of death, but to kill them, knowing full well that they'll come back as a mindless corpse with an insatiable hunger.
Alfndrate wrote: I honestly thought Merle was looking for an excuse to die. I mean he was sitting in the car, drinking some booze, and bringing as many zombies as he could with him. I felt like he knew he wasn't going to walk away from that scene.
Also, what do you guys think of the "honor" in the type of death that the governor gave him? I mean okay yes he killed him, but I feel like there is a level of dignity lost by killing him in such a way that he comes back as a walker. It just kind of hit me last night during that final scene.
Like in a world where they all know that if you die, you come back no matter how you died. Like, that's cruel to not give someone the sweet release of death, but to kill them, knowing full well that they'll come back as a mindless corpse with an insatiable hunger.
Just seems like a cruel thing to do :-\
I thought Merle was going to collect a huge horde of zombies and kamikaze through the walls of Woodbury... but that's just how I think...
Yeah it was clearly the governors intention, especially with his love of killing things and stabbing bodies so they don't turn. But why not capture and keep him? Clearly he had at least some emotion involved. look at the effect it had on Daryl... in the middle ages they would catapult the severed heads of fallen soldiers back onto their friends.... I think a walker version of someone you knew can be a potent enemy.
Meade wrote: I thought Merle was going to collect a huge horde of zombies and kamikaze through the walls of Woodbury... but that's just how I think...
Yeah it was clearly the governors intention, especially with his love of killing things and stabbing bodies so they don't turn. But why not capture and keep him? Clearly he had at least some emotion involved. look at the effect it had on Daryl... in the middle ages they would catapult the severed heads of fallen soldiers back onto their friends.... I think a walker version of someone you knew can be a potent enemy.
I rarely watch the Talking Dead, as it just never grabbed hold of me, and it's older 11pm time slot was like just as I was heading to bed, but I watch until the first commercial break, and Greg Nicotero was talking about the close up shot of Merle's eyes, showing that it wasn't the person he knew anymore. Which made sense, and I picked up on that as soon as they zoomed in on Merle, but at the same time, it would suck to have to do attack your own brother/father/son/daughter/etc... I think the reason why he didn't capture him is because the Governor probably felt Merle was a dog that needed to be put down. No point in trying to discipline him, when it was quite obvious he didn't want to work for the Governor.
I'm so glad the finale is next Sunday, because then I can turn my attention to Game of Thrones and then Breaking Bad in the summer lol
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Well, I wanted someone to die. I guess Merle's almost a main character.
Mainly, I blame Rick. He's just terrible. Incompetent and delusional. Michonne should kill him for this but for some reason she won't stab him in the eye even though he basically did the same thing The Govenor did. Even used the same guy.
Except if I remember correctly, Rick never told Merle to do it...
He told him the plan and what's up. If he didn't tell him nothing would have happened.
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Alfndrate wrote: I honestly thought Merle was looking for an excuse to die. I mean he was sitting in the car, drinking some booze, and bringing as many zombies as he could with him. I felt like he knew he wasn't going to walk away from that scene.
Also, what do you guys think of the "honor" in the type of death that the governor gave him? I mean okay yes he killed him, but I feel like there is a level of dignity lost by killing him in such a way that he comes back as a walker. It just kind of hit me last night during that final scene.
Like in a world where they all know that if you die, you come back no matter how you died. Like, that's cruel to not give someone the sweet release of death, but to kill them, knowing full well that they'll come back as a mindless corpse with an insatiable hunger.
Just seems like a cruel thing to do :-\
Yes, I think he did that on purpose so Daryl could see him like that.
Alfndrate wrote: . I think the reason why he didn't capture him is because the Governor probably felt Merle was a dog that needed to be put down. No point in trying to discipline him, when it was quite obvious he didn't want to work for the Governor.
I meant capture him as a walker, let him loose on the prison. May or may not have an effect... but it sends a message It would be worse if it was someone like Rick or Carl that everyone cared about.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Well, I wanted someone to die. I guess Merle's almost a main character. Mainly, I blame Rick. He's just terrible. Incompetent and delusional. Michonne should kill him for this but for some reason she won't stab him in the eye even though he basically did the same thing The Govenor did. Even used the same guy.
Except if I remember correctly, Rick never told Merle to do it...
He told him the plan and what's up. If he didn't tell him nothing would have happened.
I still don't think he gave the order to Merle. It may have been this way, but I'm still fairly certain that Merle told Michonne that he was doing what he did because no one else in the group had the balls to do it, something about the weight of his actions.
Alfndrate wrote: I honestly thought Merle was looking for an excuse to die. I mean he was sitting in the car, drinking some booze, and bringing as many zombies as he could with him. I felt like he knew he wasn't going to walk away from that scene.
Also, what do you guys think of the "honor" in the type of death that the governor gave him? I mean okay yes he killed him, but I feel like there is a level of dignity lost by killing him in such a way that he comes back as a walker. It just kind of hit me last night during that final scene.
Like in a world where they all know that if you die, you come back no matter how you died. Like, that's cruel to not give someone the sweet release of death, but to kill them, knowing full well that they'll come back as a mindless corpse with an insatiable hunger.
Just seems like a cruel thing to do :-\
Yes, I think he did that on purpose so Daryl could see him like that.
But that would require him to know that Daryl was following Merle, and until Merle was found by the Governor, no one really knew what was going on.
Naw, he didn't do it so Darryl could see Merle like that, he did it so that Merle would come back as a Zed. Merle would know it, too, knowing he was dying from a chest wound.
Its just the Governor being spiteful and not giving Merle a clean death of a head shot. Darryl finding him was just a final tragic twist.
I really like how evil they are making the Governor. Can't wait to see how they finish it off with this last episode. I'm thinking they'll possibly do a cliff hanger and drag it on, somehow...
I think Rick told Merle about what was up just so Merle could go off on his own. That way he can have his cake and eat it too. His conscience is clear because he "changed his mind" but y'know it might get done anyway.
I think overall the Govenor knew someone from the prison would find Merle and at the very least let Daryl know because they were supposed to meet there. If Daryl sees him in person then that's just a bonus.
Gymnogyps wrote: Naw, he didn't do it so Darryl could see Merle like that, he did it so that Merle would come back as a Zed. Merle would know it, too, knowing he was dying from a chest wound.
Its just the Governor being spiteful and not giving Merle a clean death of a head shot. Darryl finding him was just a final tragic twist.
I really like how evil they are making the Governor. Can't wait to see how they finish it off with this last episode. I'm thinking they'll possibly do a cliff hanger and drag it on, somehow...
I hope not. I'm getting real tired of the Woodbury storyline.
Ya, it's time to move on. This was the PG version on The Govenor and Woodbury anyway.
So place your bets on who's gonna kill The Govenor. The obvious ones are Rick, Michonne and Andrea but I was actually going with a dark horse: Milton! I'm not so sure now because some mini-spoilers in Talking Dead make it look like be won't get that chance. Plus I think we'll find out Gov did some bad things to Andrea which will shoot her up to the top of the revenging list.
I hope it's not Rick. They just don't have a good hate on. They're supposed to but when you think about they don't.
That's why it'll probably be Rick...
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Ya, it's time to move on. This was the PG version on The Govenor and Woodbury anyway.
So place your bets on who's gonna kill The Govenor. The obvious ones are Rick, Michonne and Andrea but I was actually going with a dark horse: Milton! I'm not so sure now because some mini-spoilers in Talking Dead make it look like be won't get that chance. Plus I think we'll find out Gov did some bad things to Andrea which will shoot her up to the top of the revenging list.
I hope it's not Rick. They just don't have a good hate on. They're supposed to but when you think about they don't.
That's why it'll probably be Rick...
Ok here we go (mind you I have not see Sunday's episode yet):
*Rick: because the writers can't seem to have any one else do anything.
*Daryl (most likely) . Payback time. Plus he'd be a cool vengeful type.
*Milton. He's seing paradise lost right before his eyes. won't happen.
*Herschel. Would be cool.
*Andrea. No. Too many chances. She will be rescued.
*Michonne. Nah
*Carl. Because he's a crazy psycho pathic little kid. Nah.
*Glenn. Glenn's turned into a whiny little . Way to kill a character.
*Blade. Blade will appear and waste him, setting up Season 4: Zombies vs. Sparkly Vampires.
*Blade. Blade will appear and waste him, setting up Season 4: Zombies vs. Sparkly Vampires.
That's been made already
I liked how Merle went, he was a complete douche the entire time and reduced Daryl into a whiney little brother whenever they were together but he still gave a good fight at the end
And Milton should be the one to take the governor, Andrea wasted all her chances already
A more important question would be "Which character from 'the group' is going to die in the finale?" Cause you know they're going to off somebody.
I'm thinking Maggie, or Carol.
Maggie because it'd put an end to the "happy" bits of this Grimdark™ setting. And it'd push Glen into being a more interesting character.
Carol for the same reason except it'd just push Daryl into being a Super Saiyan lvl2.
You know what's sad? Seeing a picture of LeAnn Rimes without her makeup. I mean, when you look at a woman the last thing you expect to be thinking is, "Who knew Daryl had such nice legs?"
I vote Milton to kills the Governor. Or else he gets killed freeing Andrea...one or the other for sure (in my mind).
Also, it seems highly likely that Tyrese and his lady-friend will end up re-joining Rick's crew post Woodbury showdown. They'll likely intervene and save the day thus proving their loyalty ultimately lies with the prison group. But, if they're joining the prison crew then definitely some people will have to go. It does seem like they hate happy relationships so that does put Glen or Maggie up on the chopping block, but both those characters seem to popular, so who knows?
Honestly, I'm very afraid this next one will be a cliffhanger... time will tell...
And oh yeah, Glenn/Maggie.... very doubtful about that as well, got a strong feeling from that marriage proposal scene, as well as the sex scene in preceding episode.
Last season finale was quite the bloodbath so I'm expecting a whole lot of killing this time around too. The only people I'm concerned about are Glenn, Maggie and Daryl but I know the only safe People are Rick, Carl and Daryl.
feeder wrote: Zombie Merle was chilling, poor Daryl. Damn Governor passing his Look Out Sir.
I'm hoping Andrea dies in the next episode. I'm really sick of Ms Holden's terrible acting.
While I kind of agree, I also think it is a symptom of some characters kind of being stuck in a rut for an entire season without much to do except tread water. While in reality, for reasons of productions costs it makes a whole lot of sense to have the group stay in a particular location for an entire season, it also has led to some of the lesser characters spinning their wheels...obviously they wanted Andrea's arc to play out this season to the point where it is now, but they also obviously felt that this had to happen in the season finale. So we had to suffer through the whole Three's Company charade early in the season where Andrea doesn't realize that her old group is out there, then once she finds out she still has the wool pulled over her eyes about the Governor (which was understandable given how good a liar he is), and then once she starts to realize the truth she had to agonize about whether just to leave or to try to do something about the Governor (kill him).
This whole arc could have been played out much more quickly and relatively early in the season, but given that Woodbury is 'the' spot for the season, they obviously tried to pace some stories to last the entire season, and Lori's was one of them, to the detriment of her character I think, making her come across as incredibly wishy-washy and naive.
I felt a similar kind of fatigue towards a number of characters in the 2nd season (on the farm), from Hershel's and Rick's 'will he or won't he allow us to stay on the farm?' to Shane's brooding to Dale's complaining about Shane, etc.
I would really love for them to aim for two different settings each season (split around the mid-season break they do) or if they do have to stay in one location all season then aim for character arcs that don't take the entire season to conclude, as given the pace of the show it does create situations where some characters almost get kind of annoying with their repetitive behavior.
feeder wrote: Zombie Merle was chilling, poor Daryl. Damn Governor passing his Look Out Sir.
I'm hoping Andrea dies in the next episode. I'm really sick of Ms Holden's terrible acting.
While I kind of agree, I also think it is a symptom of some characters kind of being stuck in a rut for an entire season without much to do except tread water. While in reality, for reasons of productions costs it makes a whole lot of sense to have the group stay in a particular location for an entire season, it also has led to some of the lesser characters spinning their wheels...obviously they wanted Andrea's arc to play out this season to the point where it is now, but they also obviously felt that this had to happen in the season finale. So we had to suffer through the whole Three's Company charade early in the season where Andrea doesn't realize that her old group is out there, then once she finds out she still has the wool pulled over her eyes about the Governor (which was understandable given how good a liar he is), and then once she starts to realize the truth she had to agonize about whether just to leave or to try to do something about the Governor (kill him).
This whole arc could have been played out much more quickly and relatively early in the season, but given that Woodbury is 'the' spot for the season, they obviously tried to pace some stories to last the entire season, and Lori's was one of them, to the detriment of her character I think, making her come across as incredibly wishy-washy and naive.
I felt a similar kind of fatigue towards a number of characters in the 2nd season (on the farm), from Hershel's and Rick's 'will he or won't he allow us to stay on the farm?' to Shane's brooding to Dale's complaining about Shane, etc.
I would really love for them to aim for two different settings each season (split around the mid-season break they do) or if they do have to stay in one location all season then aim for character arcs that don't take the entire season to conclude, as given the pace of the show it does create situations where some characters almost get kind of annoying with their repetitive behavior.
I like Andrea the Character, she's been through a lot and has a nice mix of strengths and flaws. I'm just sick of the way Ms Holden thinks head bobbing while speaking her lines = acting.
Lint wrote: A more important question would be "Which character from 'the group' is going to die in the finale?" Cause you know they're going to off somebody. I'm thinking Maggie, or Carol.
Maggie because it'd put an end to the "happy" bits of this Grimdark™ setting. And it'd push Glen into being a more interesting character.
Carol for the same reason except it'd just push Daryl into being a Super Saiyan lvl2.
It will be Herschel. 1. He's way more interesting now than anyone besides Daryl. 2. It fits with the Dale and that other guys situation. The thinker 3. It was foreshadowed when he gave up the watch.
You can't wack Maggie. There's the female audience to consider.
Personaly I'd like Tyreese to get with the group (again haven't seen this last episode until the weekend) and for there to be some serious zombie action next season. We're getting away from the essentialness that is killing zombies.
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feeder wrote: Zombie Merle was chilling, poor Daryl. Damn Governor passing his Look Out Sir.
I'm hoping Andrea dies in the next episode. I'm really sick of Ms Holden's terrible acting.
Or they uncap her to be her inner psycho killer. She always seems to want to go postal on the zombies but gets held back. Lets not hold her back.
I really hope it's Andrea who does kill the Governor. After everything that has happened between the two this season I think it makes the most sense and the one who most deserves the kill.
Here is the way I see the finale going down. The Woodbury "army" is going to get massacared at the prison by booby traps, zombies and Ricks crew. The Gov is going to retreat back to town where Milton has freed Andrea and she will kill him (probably one quick anticlimactic stroke) in his appartment. Fade to black.
Frazzled wrote:
You can't wack Daryl. There's the female audience to consider.
Fix'd.
I hear you about Herschel, but I really hope not. The group needs a "conscience" character and unlike Dale, Herschel isn't a giant annoying pussy.
I just remembered something; when Merle was lined up to take the kill shot on the gov. was that the kid from Tyrese's group that stepped out in front of the bullet? Or was it the asthmatic kid?
If you watch the second sneak peak there is no walkers around the front of the prison, hopefully Rick and the group booby-trapped the prison and filled it with walkers.
I don't think the governor is going to be killed this season as it looks like Rick and the group have left by the time he arrives and apparently the David Morrissey has been signed on for season four. However when he does eventually die I hope it's in a suitably gruesome way, it would be quiet good if he got bitten by a walker.
gianlucafiorentini123 wrote: and apparently the David Morrissey has been signed on for season four. However when he does eventually die I hope it's in a suitably gruesome way, it would be quiet good if he got bitten by a walker.
Noooo... please die and please no more prison and Woodbury season 4.
Here is the way I see the finale going down. The Woodbury "army" is going to get massacared at the prison by booby traps, zombies and Ricks crew. The Gov is going to retreat back to town where Milton has freed Andrea and she will kill him (probably one quick anticlimactic stroke) in his appartment. Fade to black.
If what Meade says is true then the Woodbury/Prison plot is going to last at least another half a season. I guess they aren't in a hurry to catch up to the comic.
Infreak wrote: If what Meade says is true then the Woodbury/Prison plot is going to last at least another half a season. I guess they aren't in a hurry to catch up to the comic.
Not neccessarily, I bet the prison will be rendered unlivable by the battle and whoever's left will ride into the sunset.
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Frazzled wrote: I agree comepletely with Meade. I find I'm looking forward to Vikings much more than Walking Dead now.
Well, it's just that the whole story arc with Andrea, Tyrese and gang, Milton, and the Governor has only recently just turned evil... seems like a lot for them to wrap up in one final episode. And if it's true the gov has signed on for another season then dang... I just fear a badass cliffhanger and them wrapping up the story with the first few episodes next season.
Or maybe my scars from Battlestar Galactica haven't fully healed. But at least I now have Game of Thrones, with all it's HBO goodness.
First, Glen is likely 100% safe like Rick, Daryl, and Carl. Why? Because Kirkman killed him in the comics but has said he felt ok with it because his Glenn is the show Glenn. So don't expect him to go anywhere.
I enjoyed this episode. Merle was the bees knees. He went out like a champ even if the Gov. is a dick. He pulled down at least 5 of the Woodbury bruisers and that's if none got dropped by biters.
I like Rick right now. He's been waffling but he was bound to the way they set this season up. And he wound up making the right call.
Last episode will be a cliff hanger. Expect the Gov. storyline to run a few episodes into the next season. Honestly the best thing that could happen to the show is Andrea getting offed. I really, really dislike her character and her acting. The only kinda cool moment she's had this season was opening the door for the zombie filled hallway to empty out onto the governor.
Either way, I'm still enjoying the show. The weakest portion of the season for me is the pure Woodbury episodes and the two episodes where Rick is really just losing it. Outside of that I've been way, way happier with the show this season than last.
Oh, and I second the Herchel as the moral compass of the group. I want him to stick around. He's not a sissy like Dale was.
Mixed feelings concerning the finale, lots of good moments, the Gov mowing down his own army chief amongst them, however when it came time for the "payoff"...big box of socks on Christmas.
My wife and I thought it was fairly laughable and the ending seemed patched together--like there was some strife with the writing team figuring out what the hell everyone was going to do.
Prison shoot out planning seems to consist of "Blow up the towers and slowly mill ourselves deeper and darker iinto zombie fested prison. After a few shots, this gets labeled a ''massacre" and a hasty retreat---where your leader proceeds to kill many party members for no reason other than perhaps anger the other group's shooting so bad. Just a strange ending.
The woodbury army isn't anything of the sort. Remember most of them have been living in a well protected community with a lot of the comforts of home and a few henchmen for the Governor. Rick's group are hardened survivors and have more experience dealing with the world as it is. So having the Woodburites led deeper into the prison by Capt Ahab and then panicking seemed realistic to me.
The pay off worked for me. Of course I liked Andrea and dislike Karl. Karl's actions and Andrea's death were a necessary plot points for Rick to return to believing in a better world. Without that motivation then whats the point of continuing the show other then for a handful of depressed fans spanking off to the grimdark.
So dissappointed. That finale battle was pathetic. Some how just Glenn and Maggie's wildly inaccurate shooting drove off like 30 people. They didn't even kill anyone! And the Woodburians didn't kill anyone other. It was a ridiculous zero casualty battle.
Started so well to with the blowing up of towers and indiscriminate use of a .50 Cal. Seems like that 10 seconds was the whole budget or something cause they didn't have any cash left to show someone getting shot.
Sure the death of Andrea was surprising but are the writers basing all their decisions on Internet chatter or something? Only the unpopular characters have died this year. Four most unpopular characters according to the Internet are T-Dawg, Lorri, Andrea and Carl. Like in that order too. The first three are dead and Carl has escaped because he's been made "cool" by his recent killing streak.
And finally the resolution of The Govenor storyline literally couldn't have been less satisfying. He just drives away
KamikazeCanuck wrote: So dissappointed. That finale battle was pathetic. Some how just Glenn and Maggie's wildly inaccurate shooting drove off like 30 people. They didn't even kill anyone! And the Woodburians didn't kill anyone other. It was a ridiculous zero casualty battle. Started so well to with the blowing up of towers and indiscriminate use of a .50 Cal. Seems like that 10 seconds was the whole budget or something cause they didn't have any cash left to show someone getting shot.
Sure the death of Andrea was surprising but are the writers basing all their decisions on Internet chatter or something? Only the unpopular characters have died this year. Four most unpopular characters according to the Internet are T-Dawg, Lorri, Andrea and Carl. Like in that order too. The first three are dead and Carl has escaped because he's been made "cool" by his recent killing streak.
And finally the resolution of The Govenor storyline literally couldn't have been less satisfying. He just drives away
Fairly sure this is what would happen if you drew a militia out of unexperienced townsfolk, gave them 2 days of training, and then sent them room-clearing in a prison still infested with zombies after telling them that the people holding the prison were psychopaths bent on killing them and their babies. Merle had wiped out most of the experienced fighters anyway, from what I could see. And there was one casualty ; Carl's dickish cold blooded murder.
And what did you expect of the Governer, that he returns to Woodsbury after suffering a psychotic break? The town is what kept his madness under the lid, he blew off and killed half the town. No reason for him to go back there.
For a show I only midly enjoy, I actually quite liked this finale.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: So dissappointed. That finale battle was pathetic. Some how just Glenn and Maggie's wildly inaccurate shooting drove off like 30 people. They didn't even kill anyone! And the Woodburians didn't kill anyone other. It was a ridiculous zero casualty battle.
Started so well to with the blowing up of towers and indiscriminate use of a .50 Cal. Seems like that 10 seconds was the whole budget or something cause they didn't have any cash left to show someone getting shot.
Sure the death of Andrea was surprising but are the writers basing all their decisions on Internet chatter or something? Only the unpopular characters have died this year. Four most unpopular characters according to the Internet are T-Dawg, Lorri, Andrea and Carl. Like in that order too. The first three are dead and Carl has escaped because he's been made "cool" by his recent killing streak.
And finally the resolution of The Govenor storyline literally couldn't have been less satisfying. He just drives away
Fairly sure this is what would happen if you drew a militia out of unexperienced townsfolk, gave them 2 days of training, and then sent them room-clearing in a prison still infested with zombies after telling them that the people holding the prison were psychopaths bent on killing them and their babies. Merle had wiped out most of the experienced fighters anyway, from what I could see. And there was one casualty ; Carl's dickish cold blooded murder.
And what did you expect of the Governer, that he returns to Woodsbury after suffering a psychotic break? The town is what kept his madness under the lid, he blew off and killed half the town. No reason for him to go back there.
For a show I only midly enjoy, I actually quite liked this finale.
Then some of the Woodburians should have been shot. The scene was anticlimac.
As for The Govenor: It's not real. I don't expect anything of The Govenor I expect better writing. I expect a more satisfying series of events to occur.
What I liked best..no more Andrea and her annoying smirk...and game of thrones started tonight..so a win win as far as I am concerned.
(on a side note)
the govs 2 cronies need to shoot him in the face first chance they get, or they will become walker pets for the gov ala michonne, or better yet should have mp5k'ed him when he started shooting all their friends..oh well.
I though when they were going into the prison Rick's group would of left them get far enough it so they would be in relatively close quarters before the ambush
That and Carl has gone and turned into child sized Shane
The ending was... surprising. I was expecting some sort of epic battle. But instead Governour killed his own people and drive away... 0_0 I am so disappointed Rick or anybody didn't pull a hole into his head, I want that so bad ever since he gunned down those National Guardsmen ( those men deserve revenge ). But I love the ending, Rick accepted everybody from Woodbury and now they have quite the community.
But the next step in season 4 is obvious:
-they will run out of supplies, leave the prison and discover Alexandria Safe-Zone.
or:
-somebody will discover them and tell them about Alexandria Safe-Zone after which they move on to find it and settle in it.
But most of all things I would love for The Walking Dead ( comics and series ) to finish like World War Z book: while everybody were fighting to survive the Governments with their militaries and all civilians they could evacuate fled to sea to regroup and strategize. And after three years they strike back and reclaim the Earth from zombies, now this would be the ending I would love to see.
I found that to be more than a little unsatisfying, and anti-climactic. I guess it's nice that they wrapped a lot of story up without a stupid cliff-hangar, but it still left me feeling a little let down. I'm surprised that nobody else was killed besides Andrea and I have to say that I wasn't sad to see her go. Carl shooting the kid made me think that he's turning into a complete product of the new post-apocalypse world, kill or be killed, very much a Shane-like attitude. Which is nice because Shane was always my favorite character, but disconcerting because it's now coming from a tweenager.
All in all this season has won me back after the doldrums of S2.
Brother Captain Alexander wrote: But most of all things I would love for The Walking Dead ( comics and series ) to finish like World War Z book: while everybody were fighting to survive the Governments with their militaries and all civilians they could evacuate fled to sea to regroup and strategize. And after three years they strike back and reclaim the Earth from zombies, now this would be the ending I would love to see.
I'd love to see some large-scale zombie battles in general. Perhaps a herd assaulting the prison... a bit like in WWZ book.
Brother Captain Alexander wrote: But most of all things I would love for The Walking Dead ( comics and series ) to finish like World War Z book: while everybody were fighting to survive the Governments with their militaries and all civilians they could evacuate fled to sea to regroup and strategize. And after three years they strike back and reclaim the Earth from zombies, now this would be the ending I would love to see.
I'd love to see some large-scale zombie battles in general. Perhaps a herd assaulting the prison... a bit like in WWZ book.
I don't think they have the budget for that. It would be good however. There is need to shift back some to the dangers of the zombie horde for a bit. Enough soap opera. We need a good old fashioned zombie hoedown to remind everyone about the joy of Zombie love.
Brother Captain Alexander wrote: But most of all things I would love for The Walking Dead ( comics and series ) to finish like World War Z book: while everybody were fighting to survive the Governments with their militaries and all civilians they could evacuate fled to sea to regroup and strategize. And after three years they strike back and reclaim the Earth from zombies, now this would be the ending I would love to see.
I'd love to see some large-scale zombie battles in general. Perhaps a herd assaulting the prison... a bit like in WWZ book.
I don't think they have the budget for that. It would be good however. There is need to shift back some to the dangers of the zombie horde for a bit. Enough soap opera. We need a good old fashioned zombie hoedown to remind everyone about the joy of Zombie love.
Have to agree with you there Frazz, I mean even though in most good zombie fiction the "human interaction dynamic" is key, let's not forget that, after all, it is a show about zombies and the hungry dead shouldn't just be regulated into the background for too long.
Brother Captain Alexander wrote: But most of all things I would love for The Walking Dead ( comics and series ) to finish like World War Z book: while everybody were fighting to survive the Governments with their militaries and all civilians they could evacuate fled to sea to regroup and strategize. And after three years they strike back and reclaim the Earth from zombies, now this would be the ending I would love to see.
I'd love to see some large-scale zombie battles in general. Perhaps a herd assaulting the prison... a bit like in WWZ book.
I don't think they have the budget for that. It would be good however. There is need to shift back some to the dangers of the zombie horde for a bit. Enough soap opera. We need a good old fashioned zombie hoedown to remind everyone about the joy of Zombie love.
You're right about the budget Frazz. There's actually supposed a wall of zombies around the prison. A constant press on the second fence. That's why a prison's double fence was the greatest find ever. Two people actually have a day job of walking in between the double fence and jabbing zombies in the face with a knife or sword. It would be a day's work of zombie stabbing. This gives a sense of the value of the prison. It's like an Island of safety in an ocean of zombies. Obviously they didn't have the budget to do this. Something to do with MadMen needing an ocean of zombies or something...I don't know. The commercial tells me they're pretty much the same show. Instead in the show Rick can't even be bothered to close the gate behind him.
Also, the prison has a field. That allows farmer Herschel to do some farming. They didn't even touch on that.
-Glad Andrea is gone. I see what her point was but hated that character. Part of it was the difference between comic Andrea and show Andrea but most of it was the just the horrible acting and general tv character.
-Carl blasted a kid that was moving closer to him and didn't drop the weapon like he was told. He was at the time resposible for a cripple, his baby sister, and probably a girl he has a crush on as his hormones are starting. Perfectly reasonable response. Especially given his discussion with his dad later.
-I thought the prison assault scene was actually quite good. Bear in mind that Merle had killed a lot of the actual experienced gunmen. Rick's group would know that based on discussions with Merle and Michone and Darryl telling them what happened. The majority of these people were waffly about shooting a zombie or shooting a bitten man. They weren't ready for a hunt through a deep dark dungeon for crazies.
As for Glenn and Maggie missing they were trying to miss. They wanted the people out. Basically they wanted people to know that taking the prison wouldn't be worth the effort. Just like Michonne noted in the previous episode.
-How things ended with the Govenor work for me. First the actor is excellent and seeing the two directions losing those closest to you can have on men in authority is great. I think it's a good call to see where it goes with Rick getting his sanity back and the Gov just going nuts.
-I like that they didn't cliffhanger it. It's gimmicky. I like that the first and second season ended with that on the run feeling where this one felt more upbeat, like there was hope.
-I'm glad Rick is finally back. I'm looking forward to the "leader group" dynamic of next season with Michone, Rick, Glen, Herchel, Tyrese, and Darryl (who I get the feeling is going to be less the yes-man soldier than he was before).
Overall I thought a solid ending to a much better season than season 2.
I said season, as in, whole season. I'm not sure anything will top the Season 2 finale. Season 1 didn't touch it in my opinion. Massive brawl at the farm, carl killing zombie shane, michone showing up, epic scene of the barn burning, and rick laying down the new law. Just a great, great episode.
Cliffhangers are generally considered immediate issues that are unresolved. Example being someone is shot but you don't know their dead or the last shot of the season is people barricaded in a room with 50 zombies beating on the door and no means of escape. Things like that are cliff hangers. Your enemy driving off after a mass execution and you bring a town in to live with you aren't exactly immediate issues.
As for the Carl thing you have to be able to see a difference but maybe not so let me lay out what seemed to me to be the thinking based on previous comments the characters have made in show:
The "Plan" was make the prison more trouble than it's worth. They hide the "non-combatants" out in the woods and proceed to set up a situation that causes panic in untrained civilians. Those civilians panic and scatter. Now, actually causing casualties inceases the chance of another attack as their blood will be up for a reason. If they flee and no one is actually killed by the people in the prison it's more likely to have the result it did. That the "army" says to hell with and walks away.
This is quite a bit different than the situation Carl encounters in the woods. Carl is still what people in this world would term a kid. An older teenager (appears 16-19)running through the woods sees a kid, old man, and attractive young girl. Who knows whats going through his head but he didn't drop the gun, he did keep moving forward, and he wasn't listening. If he's just in a panic then maybe no big deal. But if he isn't he's able to get close enough to a kid he can disable physically and be to close for the old man to shoot at him. It's to much of a risk for someone in this world when they are responsible for an object of their affection and their baby sister. A baby sister Carl was willing to go into a Zombie infested bar for to get a picture of her mom.
Yeah I had no problem with Carl shooting the gunman. The guy hadn't dropped his gun, and the smirky look on his face said that he was thinking about the kid and the cripple in front of him. What made it so cold was the absolute lack of emotion expressed by Carl, he did it like he was flushing a turd down the toilet, and that I think is what shocked Herschel the most.
If you really think about it, Carl is probably so nuts he makes the Governor look like Jung. He's grown up in a world of zombies, had his dad die and reappear, had to shoot his own zombie mom. He's coockoo.
Frankly they'd all be coockoo pscho killers actually.
Regarding the Governor, I think it's interesting how people complain about predictable and formulaic writing in TV and movies, then complain when they don't get it. Personally, I can do without a Hollywood western showdown between the Governor and whomever at high noon, ending with the bad guy dead. I like this ending. It's more realistic than a showdown, and it turns him into a different kind of menace...a predator prowling around the woods that you might see again...or not.
Looking ahead to next season, supposedly it'll have a few more one-off episodes like the one this season with Rick, Carl and Michonne in the town. I think those are badly needed to create some opportunities for character development and (*gasp*) occasional lighter moments. Although I'm not sure how well that will go over in some corners. There's certainly a chunk of the viewer base that tunes in to see zombies' heads explode, and not people talking.
gorgon wrote: Regarding the Governor, I think it's interesting how people complain about predictable and formulaic writing in TV and movies, then complain when they don't get it. Personally, I can do without a Hollywood western showdown between the Governor and whomever at high noon, ending with the bad guy dead. I like this ending. It's more realistic than a showdown, and it turns him into a different kind of menace...a predator prowling around the woods that you might see again...or not.
Looking ahead to next season, supposedly it'll have a few more one-off episodes like the one this season with Rick, Carl and Michonne in the town. I think those are badly needed to create some opportunities for character development and (*gasp*) occasional lighter moments. Although I'm not sure how well that will go over in some corners. There's certainly a chunk of the viewer base that tunes in to see zombies' heads explode, and not people talking.
Actually one offs are an excellent way to have mass zombie killing fun, without threatening to drive them out of their location.
Would be nice to have a series ending where they are in a last stand, and all of the sudden a bunch of troops roll up, and waste the biters ala Sean of the Dead style.
After, these guys aren't listening to radios or anything. Until the Army got within shooting distance they'd have no clue.
Carl seems to be more similar in the comic and tv show - he becomes a stone cold killer in both - what will be interesting is as he gets older and colder and he starts seeing his dad as weak.............
I would hate to see Andrea in the comic gone - TV Andrea not so bothered.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Is this not a cliff hanger? The Govenor and Martinez are still alive.
So it was ok for Carl to shoot that kid but not ok for Glenn to shoot those gunmen?
Can't agree about this being better finale than last season. I think season 2 had best finale and even season 1 was better.
Agreed. It appears a producer/writer was fired and the finale had to be reshot--which might explain the 'patch' feeling I got from the episode.
I will say this--the opening of this episode was terrific---but went downhill from there.
I heard that. Is that Greg Nicotero? What happened?
Automatically Appended Next Post: @hulksmash Yes they wanted to make the prison not worth it by killing a lot of people.
I've seen more people defend Carl's actions than not and I think that's just another misstep by the writers. I think the authorial intent was for us to be appalled by Carl's murder. To do that they should have had the kid drop the gun completely and then have Carl shoot him.
Also I think the intent of not showing the Prisonteers massacring the Woodburians was because they wanted to show how they are the good guys. However, the reality is if they had slaughtered them the audience wouldn't have begrudged them at all. The Woodburians are making the ill thought out attack and being defeated in open combat. It just would have made Team Rick more awesome.
I think more often than not the show miscalculates how it's audience will react.
It hasn't been mentioned yet, but what was up with Andrea's getting the pliers scene? How badly written was that? Chatting with a soon to be zombie? Doesn't try to hurry until he actually turns... silly.
I didn't mention it because I don't care how she left the show. I just wanted her to be done. But yeah, the 15 minute conversation with the dying guy instead of getting loose was ridiculous.
I didn't mention it because I don't care how she left the show. I just wanted her to be done. But yeah, the 15 minute conversation with the dying guy instead of getting loose was ridiculous.
Agree, glad she's gone. Hated all her screen time. I think your inputs on the season and finale are spot on. It's actually fun to read. Great point on Merle actually winning the day because he killed 9 gun man and the town folk had to be used. Yay Merle!
Yeah I'm not sorry to see Andrea go at all, it's too bad she never got to be Andrea of the comics. They spent so much effort building her into this badass sniper-chick, but in the end we just saw her take a shot off an RV at Daryl, and then proceed to have sex with every badass guy, then waffle, cry and whine, right up to the end. Compare that to how many times Daryl has sniped some man/walker/squirrel with his crossbow.
Byte wrote:It hasn't been mentioned yet, but what was up with Andrea's getting the pliers scene? How badly written was that? Chatting with a soon to be zombie? Doesn't try to hurry until he actually turns... silly.
I feel that scene was perfectly representative of the entire show from ep.2 onward.
Byte wrote:Nah. It's a good show IMO. I look forward to it each season.
Every single character, except for the kid, carries an idiot ball.
I think you mean the characters are portrayed as actually being human and having to deal with this mess.
Everyone makes mistakes, though admittedly Andrea's mistake was inexcusable and just plain bad writing.
Rick's constant mistakes are so frequent that even his 10-year-old son was able to call him on it. The writing concerning everyone's inability to handle any given situation almost two years into the Z-times is now inexcusably lazy.
Byte wrote:Nah. It's a good show IMO. I look forward to it each season.
Every single character, except for the kid, carries an idiot ball.
I think you mean the characters are portrayed as actually being human and having to deal with this mess.
Everyone makes mistakes, though admittedly Andrea's mistake was inexcusable and just plain bad writing.
Rick's constant mistakes are so frequent that even his 10-year-old son was able to call him on it. The writing concerning everyone's inability to handle any given situation almost two years into the Z-times is now inexcusably lazy.
Judging by the age of the baby its less than one year.
Byte wrote:Nah. It's a good show IMO. I look forward to it each season.
Every single character, except for the kid, carries an idiot ball.
I think you mean the characters are portrayed as actually being human and having to deal with this mess.
Everyone makes mistakes, though admittedly Andrea's mistake was inexcusable and just plain bad writing.
Rick's constant mistakes are so frequent that even his 10-year-old son was able to call him on it. The writing concerning everyone's inability to handle any given situation almost two years into the Z-times is now inexcusably lazy.
I can't tell if they just didn't show it well, or if it was intentionally vague, but Carl seemed justified in shooting the guy. He had been told to drop the gun and did not, and kept moving forward. You don't wait for them to try and grab you before you take them down. If the guy had just dropped his weapon as asked, or even just froze and stood there, it may have been different, but he kept creeping forward and wasn't dropping the weapon.
If we take that Hershel as accurate, that Carl did gun him down in cold blood, that is a problem. It isn't that Carl is calling Rick out on his mistakes, it is that he is becoming the Governor, Shane, or possibly Morgan. They become even less human then the monsters that changed the world.
Merle in the previous episode showed that people don't have to become worse than zombies to survive. He didn't have to let Michone go, and yet, he did. Not every decision only leads to death, except in the greater sense, but that is true even without zombies. It is still a rough world, to be sure, and having imperfect knowledge, low supplies, and under threat doesn't mean that we have to devolve completely into base savages, but we would have to be prepared for those who are.
I've only watched two episodes of The Walking Dead in my life - the first one, and the one where Rick and the Governor sit down and have a nice chat over some whiskey (and a bit of the one before that, and a bit of the second episode). I've kept up by reading detailed reviews, as I'd get too frustrated with the moronic way everyone acts on this show.
And from that Season 3 episode alone I can see why everyone wanted Andrea dead. Wow... Kinda makes me want to watch it just to see the end of her.
Ahtman wrote: I can't tell if they just didn't show it well, or if it was intentionally vague, but Carl seemed justified in shooting the guy. He had been told to drop the gun and did not, and kept moving forward. You don't wait for them to try and grab you before you take them down. If the guy had just dropped his weapon as asked, or even just froze and stood there, it may have been different, but he kept creeping forward and wasn't dropping the weapon.
If we take that Hershel as accurate, that Carl did gun him down in cold blood, that is a problem. It isn't that Carl is calling Rick out on his mistakes, it is that he is becoming the Governor, Shane, or possibly Morgan. They become even less human then the monsters that changed the world.
Merle in the previous episode showed that people don't have to become worse than zombies to survive. He didn't have to let Michone go, and yet, he did. Not every decision only leads to death, except in the greater sense, but that is true even without zombies. It is still a rough world, to be sure, and having imperfect knowledge, low supplies, and under threat doesn't mean that we have to devolve completely into base savages, but we would have to be prepared for those who are.
I still think its debatable how much, if at all worse Shane was than Rick - he certainly made some better decisions - like clearing the barn and arguably the whole love triangle thing twisted stuff up between them so that only one was going to walk away.
The Governor was a functioning psycho and seemingly pretty decent ruler - mad - perhaps but his people seemed in a really good way before hand - nice life compared to the hell of the prison and before. Compare him to any historic "Warlord" and he wouldn't be far off and as long as you are on his side - things are good. Its a bit like someone like Dexter finding himself in power and trying not to "indulge himself".
Rick is pretty questionable - leaving the back pack guy to be eaten was cold, selling Sword girl to the governor - well bottling it and then doing a "will someone not rid me of this turbulent priest" and looking the other way. The Governor had his zombie daughter and floating heads to keep him going - Rick has his annoying ghost wife to send him the other way........
Carl is a stone killer - he has a baby and cute blonde to look after now - If his father keeps making bad decisions - he is going to call him on this and if it goes down to a point where he has to choose - well ask his mother and "stepdad" what he is prepared to do......
Agreed.
-Prior to the big shootout the Governor was actually pretty good. His people had food, water, shelter, freedom from zombies, apparently electricity, and home entertainment.
His organizing "the militia" should have been done far earlier. He was a substantially better leader than Rick.
-During Shane's "tenor" his decisioning was superior. he didn't lead them into Atlanta, or the CDC, and was much more realistic on the Farm.
Ya generally have the right of it. I've basically just been hatewatching it since they got to the farm.
Hey if you like The Walking Dead, and Zombies there's supposed to be this totally awesome new zombie movie coming out. It's called World War Z. I heard it's going to be totally awesome. Exciting times!
Ya generally have the right of it. I've basically just been hatewatching it since they got to the farm.
Hey if you like The Walking Dead, and Zombies there's supposed to be this totally awesome new zombie movie coming out. It's called World War Z. I heard it's going to be totally awesome. Exciting times!
Except that World War Z looks nothing like it's source material...
Ya generally have the right of it. I've basically just been hatewatching it since they got to the farm.
Hey if you like The Walking Dead, and Zombies there's supposed to be this totally awesome new zombie movie coming out. It's called World War Z. I heard it's going to be totally awesome. Exciting times!
Except that World War Z looks nothing like it's source material...
Good. If I just wanted the book I'd just read the book again. I have no issues with it doing its own thing.
Ya generally have the right of it. I've basically just been hatewatching it since they got to the farm.
Hey if you like The Walking Dead, and Zombies there's supposed to be this totally awesome new zombie movie coming out. It's called World War Z. I heard it's going to be totally awesome. Exciting times!
Except that World War Z looks nothing like it's source material...
Good. If I just wanted the book I'd just read the book again. I have no issues with it doing its own thing.
I don't mind when a book or movie or tv shoe pulls away from it's source material as long as there is a link between the two of them (besides titles).
From what I can tell, WWZ is more like 28 days later rather than the book...
As someone on this forum said, it's almost certain that someone involved with the making of the movie was "inspired" by some show about army ants on NatGeo or whatever. It's certainly a fresh look for zombies, but IMO one that looks both obviously CGI and silly, and that's not a good combo.
I don't think everyone on the show has the "Idiot ball" usually just Rick and Andrea.
As for WWZ I'll watch it. I'm just going in knowing it has 0% to do with the book and accept it. Hopefully, they won't mess it up by focusing too much on Brad Pitt and more on world events but I'm pretty sure they're going with "Brad Pitt saves the world!".
Face it, we will all go see WWZ and complain a lot as we watch it. Or at least suffer in silence. But at the end of the day, Brad Pitt is just too god damn sexy.
The Walking Dead has it's problems... but at the end of the day... it's zombies. And it's not a parody of itself. At least they do a good job on the zombie makeup/special effects.
I just can’t suspend my disbelief enough to watch a show where the people live in a world that never even had the concept of Zombies. They’re so genre un-savvy that it’s just painful.
I think there should be a scale, similar to the one that says the quality of fantasy fiction is inversely proportional to the amount of words the author has to invent. The difference is the quality of the Zombie fiction you’re doing is inversely proportional to how far out of the way the author goes to avoid saying the word ‘Zombie’.
Eh the walking Dead videogame (telltale games) is much better than the TV show as it actually has good character development you get to hear the backstory of pretty much every character you meet and what they have done to survive.
Now we get to the TV show and it goes a little like this.
Hershel : "Rick we need to talk about -current situation-, now go breath heavily on the Catwalk/porch for 5 minutes and then come back to talk about it"
Rick: *storms off*
Meanwhile
Daryl: *Does whatever he wants and makes it look badass, ends with a walker being shot in the head with the crossbow*
Carl: *develops appropriately in Zombie apoc*
Glenn: "in the First 2 seasons I always helped out the group by looking for stuff, in season 3 my face is stuck with a worried expression"
H.B.M.C. wrote: I think there should be a scale, similar to the one that says the quality of fantasy fiction is inversely proportional to the amount of words the author has to invent. The difference is the quality of the Zombie fiction you’re doing is inversely proportional to how far out of the way the author goes to avoid saying the word ‘Zombie’.
If we can identify the two main points of divergence between our world and Zombie worlds they are:
1) George A. Romero films were much less popular and Zombies are not really part of the popular lexicon.
2) The dead have risen and are eating people.
If you can make the leap of faith for #2 you should be able to make it for #1 as well.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I don't think everyone on the show has the "Idiot ball" usually just Rick and Andrea.
As for WWZ I'll watch it. I'm just going in knowing it has 0% to do with the book and accept it. Hopefully, they won't mess it up by focusing too much on Brad Pitt and more on world events but I'm pretty sure they're going with "Brad Pitt saves the world!".
I'd lay money that Brad Pitt will discover some kind of "instant win" solution that will either be kinda obvious or not really make sense. Maybe he's an entomologist or exterminator or once wrote an article for Insect Fancy and recognizes that the zombies are behaving like army ants, and he knows a way to beat army ants. He'll try to get in to see the team of scientists, military and governmental types in charge, but he'll be rebuffed at first. Eventually, after some close calls and zombie action, someone will help get him in, or he'll sneak in and make his case. The hard-a$$ military commander will be skeptical -- his plan is to nuke the eastern seaboard -- and will want to haul Pitt out of there, but there'll be a scientist or government type -- probably an attractive woman -- who'll believe in him.
The nukes will be called off at the last minute and the instant win will work. The movie closes on an upnote with a voiceover from Pitt explaining how World War Z cost a lot of lives, but it taught everyone some valuable lessons about something vaguely ecological...and brought his family closer together. Lots of hugs. The end.
I'd lay money that Brad Pitt will discover some kind of "instant win" solution that will either be kinda obvious or not really make sense. Maybe he's an entomologist or exterminator or once wrote an article for Insect Fancy and recognizes that the zombies are behaving like army ants, and he knows a way to beat army ants. He'll try to get in to see the team of scientists, military and governmental types in charge, but he'll be rebuffed at first. Eventually, after some close calls and zombie action, someone will help get him in, or he'll sneak in and make his case. The hard-a$$ military commander will be skeptical -- his plan is to nuke the eastern seaboard -- and will want to haul Pitt out of there, but there'll be a scientist or government type -- probably an attractive woman -- who'll believe in him.
The nukes will be called off at the last minute and the instant win will work. The movie closes on an upnote with a voiceover from Pitt explaining how World War Z cost a lot of lives, but it taught everyone some valuable lessons about something vaguely ecological...and brought his family closer together. Lots of hugs. The end.
No way. If this movie makes money,
Spoiler:
It's going to.
it's a stone cold lock they'll want to do another. I see a hollywood style cliffhanger.
it's a stone cold lock they'll want to do another.
Okay, fair point. So let's roll with this.
The movie closes on an up note with a voiceover from Pitt explaining how the battle for NYC cost a lot of lives, and that WWZ wasn't over yet, but that there's finally some real hope for humanity. What's more, it taught everyone some valuable lessons about something vaguely ecological...and brought his family closer together. Lots of hugs. The end.
Another option is to end it as in the previous post, but have a final shot -- just after the initial closing credits -- of a lone zombie apparently unaffected by instant win shuffling off somewhere.
Another option is to end it as in the previous post, but have a final shot -- just after the initial closing credits -- of a lone zombie apparently unaffected by instant win shuffling off somewhere.
Sadly this is exactly the kind of sorry, lame ending that hollywood writers seem to think is incredibly shocking and clever. And you are most likely right on point about it. Ah well, I'll still be paying to see it.
Unfortunately, the big budget almost guarantees that the studio will seek to minimize the risk to its investment by sticking to the very well-worn disaster movie formula.
Pitt usually picks good scripts. Then again, he might just be looking at all the gross points (percentage of gross revenue) and thinking cha-ching.
@Frazzled -- Like these? There are some good movies there, but it certainly looks to be a formula poster. Note the slight turn they gave Pitt in the WWZ poster, just so that you know you're in fact looking at THE Brad Pitt.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I don't think everyone on the show has the "Idiot ball" usually just Rick and Andrea.
As for WWZ I'll watch it. I'm just going in knowing it has 0% to do with the book and accept it. Hopefully, they won't mess it up by focusing too much on Brad Pitt and more on world events but I'm pretty sure they're going with "Brad Pitt saves the world!".
I'd lay money that Brad Pitt will discover some kind of "instant win" solution that will either be kinda obvious or not really make sense. Maybe he's an entomologist or exterminator or once wrote an article for Insect Fancy and recognizes that the zombies are behaving like army ants, and he knows a way to beat army ants. He'll try to get in to see the team of scientists, military and governmental types in charge, but he'll be rebuffed at first. Eventually, after some close calls and zombie action, someone will help get him in, or he'll sneak in and make his case. The hard-a$$ military commander will be skeptical -- his plan is to nuke the eastern seaboard -- and will want to haul Pitt out of there, but there'll be a scientist or government type -- probably an attractive woman -- who'll believe in him.
The nukes will be called off at the last minute and the instant win will work. The movie closes on an upnote with a voiceover from Pitt explaining how World War Z cost a lot of lives, but it taught everyone some valuable lessons about something vaguely ecological...and brought his family closer together. Lots of hugs. The end.
God damn that's a good prediction. You better be wrong!
The whole point of WWZ is that is was a war and not a short one. It was a long hard slog.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: I don't think everyone on the show has the "Idiot ball" usually just Rick and Andrea.
As for WWZ I'll watch it. I'm just going in knowing it has 0% to do with the book and accept it. Hopefully, they won't mess it up by focusing too much on Brad Pitt and more on world events but I'm pretty sure they're going with "Brad Pitt saves the world!".
I'd lay money that Brad Pitt will discover some kind of "instant win" solution that will either be kinda obvious or not really make sense. Maybe he's an entomologist or exterminator or once wrote an article for Insect Fancy and recognizes that the zombies are behaving like army ants, and he knows a way to beat army ants. He'll try to get in to see the team of scientists, military and governmental types in charge, but he'll be rebuffed at first. Eventually, after some close calls and zombie action, someone will help get him in, or he'll sneak in and make his case. The hard-a$$ military commander will be skeptical -- his plan is to nuke the eastern seaboard -- and will want to haul Pitt out of there, but there'll be a scientist or government type -- probably an attractive woman -- who'll believe in him.
The nukes will be called off at the last minute and the instant win will work. The movie closes on an upnote with a voiceover from Pitt explaining how World War Z cost a lot of lives, but it taught everyone some valuable lessons about something vaguely ecological...and brought his family closer together. Lots of hugs. The end.
Dude, if you're wrong with this^^ you should pitch it to a rival studio. It's so crappy, they'd love it.
I thought it was a solid opener. I kept wondering why Rick was helping the crazy lady, although I guess it's intended to show that Rick hasn't given up on others and the idea of treating each other in a civilized, humane way.
Interesting that plague might be the big bad guy in the early goings of this season. So we can assume that the kid caught it from Daryl, who got it from eating the pig. So what the heck is it? It's obviously incredibly nasty to kill so quickly.
We know they already carry the zombification virus. And we know that zombie bites cause the fever disease that kills. So either it's two virii (although I don't remember the guy at the CDC saying anything about that), or it's one virus that activates somehow at death, causing zombification in a dead boy and the fever in a live body.
We haven't seen any issues with animals being affected that I can recall, but I guess that doesn't really mean anything, especially if the only effect on animals is the fever sickness. So maybe the pig found a zombie part in the mud somewhere and ate it. The active virus killed the pig, although didn't cause zombification. Fine, but then since everyone else that ate the pig was apparently immune, does this indicate some kind of virus mutation that will only affect certain people?
I kinda hope there's a rationale behind this and explanation eventually coming. It won't matter to everyone, but it matters to me.
Started out good.Just hoping that this season Rick dies and ANYONE else could become the new lead... his character is terrible.
Spoiler:
As for the kid dying in the shower, who knows how he died, No one ate the pig that died they've been eating the meat that Daryl keeps brining in from the wild. The problem is going to be that the community is getting large so its drawing in all the walkers from around the area.
As for Michonne looking for the GOVNAH! she is heading to macon.... please let her come across Omid, Christa, Clementine.
First off, Rick isn't the leader anymore. I don't think he's even on the council. If the group has an actionable leader it seems to be Darryl or Sasha now.
Now for my thoughts
Spoiler:
Really enjoyed the opener. The pace and tone were great. And it's nice to see something working before they tear it all apart. Basically the community has been running for over half a year at this point and running well. Things are about as good as they get in a post zombie apocalypse for everyone at the prison.
I have to say I love Beth's reaction to her BF dying. One of the funniest and saddest at the same time things I've seen in forever. I watched the Talking Dead after and the show runner was saying this season will focus a bit on the difference between adults and children and growing up as the general theme. I like the idea of highlighting the difference in mentalities of early-teen and younger kids and the adults and how they have adapted to the world.
I don't think that kid died from bad meat. My guess is that there is a sickness "out there". And the kids immune system wasn't up to it. I've been shocked no one has managed to actually get horribly ill but if it happens then kids are the likely ones to go. The increased number of walkers and dead things near the prison could also cause more disease and bacteria in the air. I think Darryl had a sickness he didn't notice or has already fought off and the kids immune system didn't hang with it and down he went.
Loved the 3 questions. I was banking on the lady and her husband being canabals since I figured they did the whole keep your loved one who's now a zombie alive bit before but it was well done.
And lastly, where the hell was Tyreeses hammer!!!!! It's the man's weapon of choice, not a pistol he can barely use! Though it was good to see people actually missing headshots for a change.
Overall I really, really enjoyed the episode and the plots it's set up. I'm super pumped for the longest season of Walking Dead so far.
The "I just wanna shake your hand...the one you licked" sequence could be a red herring (as could the several heartbeats worth of time spent on the dead pig), but I don't know how that really helps the narrative.
The mystery disease is obviously much nastier than anything we have IRL. The kid went from feeling fine to dead on the floor from what looks like some kind of hemorrhagic fever in less than a day. It seems implausible that the world would generate two superduperbugs, so I think it has almost has to be related to the zombie virus. Perhaps it is related to the growing zombie population at the fences.
A question I had during the show is where are all those zombies coming from? I guess the idea is that Atlanta is still dumping its population into the countryside, but doesn't the zombie population have to level off at some point as the human population (future zombie recruits) shrinks and the existing zombies fall apart?
I also thought the crazy lady and her hubby were going to be cannibals.
The "I just wanna shake your hand...the one you licked" sequence could be a red herring (as could the several heartbeats worth of time spent on the dead pig), but I don't know how that really helps the narrative.
The mystery disease is obviously much nastier than anything we have IRL. The kid went from feeling fine to dead on the floor from what looks like some kind of hemorrhagic fever in less than a day. It seems implausible that the world would generate two superduperbugs, so I think it has almost has to be related to the zombie virus. Perhaps it is related to the growing zombie population at the fences.
A question I had during the show is where are all those zombies coming from? I guess the idea is that Atlanta is still dumping its population into the countryside, but doesn't the zombie population have to level off at some point as the human population (future zombie recruits) shrinks and the existing zombies fall apart?
I also thought the crazy lady and her hubby were going to be cannibals.
I agree that it was a good opener.
Great opener... not too much, but just enough to keep you on your toes...
Spoiler:
The "I just wanna shake your hand...the one you licked" sequence could be a red herring (as could the several heartbeats worth of time spent on the dead pig), but I don't know how that really helps the narrative.
eh... it certainly kept us talking about that...
The mystery disease is obviously much nastier than anything we have IRL. The kid went from feeling fine to dead on the floor from what looks like some kind of hemorrhagic fever in less than a day. It seems implausible that the world would generate two superduperbugs, so I think it has almost has to be related to the zombie virus. Perhaps it is related to the growing zombie population at the fences.
I think it's definitely some sort of the black plague...
A question I had during the show is where are all those zombies coming from? I guess the idea is that Atlanta is still dumping its population into the countryside, but doesn't the zombie population have to level off at some point as the human population (future zombie recruits) shrinks and the existing zombies fall apart?
Atlanta and it's surrounding 'burbs is freaking huge... we haven't seen enough folks imo.
I also thought the crazy lady and her hubby were going to be cannibals
I thought her hubby was just zombified... whould kinda made sense how long she survived. Remember how samuria chick had an entourage of jawless/armless zombies... but, as a plot device for those 3 questions? That part was great!
It was OK. Not as good as the start to the third season.
The things I thought were kind of off were, they have a sick pig and don't know what's wrong with it. Hershel is/was/had been a veterinarian. Why isn't he looking at the pig? The second thing was the zombies falling from the roof of the Target or Wal-mart place. They had been milling around up there for who knows how long and then the roof collapses. Wouldn't it have collapsed earlier? It seemed a bit deus ex machina for me. But, we'll see. It might pick up after a few episodes.
It was OK. Not as good as the start to the third season.
The things I thought were kind of off were, they have a sick pig and don't know what's wrong with it. Hershel is/was/had been a veterinarian. Why isn't he looking at the pig? The second thing was the zombies falling from the roof of the Target or Wal-mart place. They had been milling around up there for who knows how long and then the roof collapses. Wouldn't it have collapsed earlier? It seemed a bit deus ex machina for me. But, we'll see. It might pick up after a few episodes.
Spoiler:
At least how I saw it
The Pig:
Herschel has none of his veterinary equipment so unless the disease it has is very distinguishable it could be hard to diagnose: even harder if he's only seen it in textbooks etc.
The Store roof:
Only some parts of the roof were weak enough for the zombies to walk through initially and without any food source and no way to get off the roof they would shut down and not really move: until Daryl & Co. rolled up
Saw someone on reddit proposing that it could be an ebola virus. Fits well with the symptoms the kid was displaying, no to forget the large amount of screen time for that one zombie with the blood leaking eyes and nose. The kid seemed to display severe nose bleeding. I seem to recall the CDC doing something with ebola?I cant remember, maybe when it exploded a strain remained alive and became airborne. Also someone pointed out the piglets avoiding there mother completely, which i thought was a nice touch
It was OK. Not as good as the start to the third season.
The things I thought were kind of off were, they have a sick pig and don't know what's wrong with it. Hershel is/was/had been a veterinarian. Why isn't he looking at the pig? The second thing was the zombies falling from the roof of the Target or Wal-mart place. They had been milling around up there for who knows how long and then the roof collapses. Wouldn't it have collapsed earlier? It seemed a bit deus ex machina for me. But, we'll see. It might pick up after a few episodes.
Spoiler:
I thought deep striking zombies were awesome -- and gut-hanging zombie an instant classic -- so I give the whole sequence a pass in terms of logic.
Saw someone on reddit proposing that it could be an ebola virus. Fits well with the symptoms the kid was displaying, no to forget the large amount of screen time for that one zombie with the blood leaking eyes and nose. The kid seemed to display severe nose bleeding. I seem to recall the CDC doing something with ebola?I cant remember, maybe when it exploded a strain remained alive and became airborne. Also someone pointed out the piglets avoiding there mother completely, which i thought was a nice touch
Spoiler:
Yeah, like I said, it looks like a hemorrhagic fever of some kind. But ebola is a slower killer, and certainly doesn't kill in hours. Nothing kills in hours. It's a superbug of some kind. If it's completely unrelated to the zombie bug, my disbelief will officially no longer be willingly suspended. Because TWO civilization-killer-level superbugs? Why not an asteroid strike next?
Did the kid not drink some of the pigs water (I can't remember seeing it but I heard he did) and then he got the same disease as the pig and died. Personally I think it's going to be something to do with radiation, because weren't they seen filming at a nuclear power plant and the kid had the same bleeds eyes as the zombie and it's possible that the zombie was affected by radiation.
For me it was a great first episode it's nice to have some new characters.
Well it's that time of the year again where the ghost of Frazzled the Mod warns us there will spoilers in this thread so not going to use spoiler tags.
Good episode overall. Looks like this season is going to be what season 3 should have been. People trying to build a community in a prison. Then season 4 should have been when the evil Govenor takes it all away from them but for some reason they did it in reverse.
As for what killed that kid I don't know but Ebola seems like as good a theory as any.
I rewatched the opening. I'll stick with spoiler tags because I have a spoiler from the comics in there too.
Spoiler:
They did eat the deer and not the pig. And I changed my mind about some things. I think bleeding eyes zombie is the strongest, most obvious clue, and that the handshake, pig, wild game, and water are all red herrings. I think the zombie proximity is the thing, and exposure has occurred with the fence crews and by the kids who were fething around with them.
And yeah, it's obviously some kind of hemorraghic fever (Ebola isn't the only kind). But none of them are lethal within hours. Again, the idea of a super-Ebola/Marburg (maybe airborne?) on top of the zombie plague is kinda ridiculous to me.
However, I'm not sure it matters, because I don't think we're going to know. We're probably going to get their view of things, meaning they won't know what disease it is or where it even comes from. This would cause extreme paranoia, making them question their water, their food, the massive zombie population outside the walls, and everyone and everything around them. This -- maybe combined with a zombie attack -- will make the community split up, driving them from the prison and getting them back on the general track of the comic book. Enter Abraham, Eugene, etc.
Anyway, what was up with the half-butchered deer and the other animal? It wasn't walkers...they'd never catch them unless they were in a trap, and then if they were they would have been devoured. Is that the Governor trying to lure walkers to the prison? The size and speed of their arrival would more sense if someone was luring/driving them there. And again, a final appearance by the Governor at the prison would kinda/sorta get things back on the comic book track.
I liked the metal doors that would swing out and impale the walkers. Its like Grant (was it Grant) who had all the zombie traps. Clearly people are finally thinking about things a little bit.
gorgon wrote: I rewatched the opening. I'll stick with spoiler tags because I have a spoiler from the comics in there too.
Spoiler:
They did eat the deer and not the pig. And I changed my mind about some things. I think bleeding eyes zombie is the strongest, most obvious clue, and that the handshake, pig, wild game, and water are all red herrings. I think the zombie proximity is the thing, and exposure has occurred with the fence crews and by the kids who were fething around with them.
And yeah, it's obviously some kind of hemorraghic fever (Ebola isn't the only kind). But none of them are lethal within hours. Again, the idea of a super-Ebola/Marburg (maybe airborne?) on top of the zombie plague is kinda ridiculous to me.
However, I'm not sure it matters, because I don't think we're going to know. We're probably going to get their view of things, meaning they won't know what disease it is or where it even comes from. This would cause extreme paranoia, making them question their water, their food, the massive zombie population outside the walls, and everyone and everything around them. This -- maybe combined with a zombie attack -- will make the community split up, driving them from the prison and getting them back on the general track of the comic book. Enter Abraham, Eugene, etc.
Anyway, what was up with the half-butchered deer and the other animal? It wasn't walkers...they'd never catch them unless they were in a trap, and then if they were they would have been devoured. Is that the Governor trying to lure walkers to the prison? The size and speed of their arrival would more sense if someone was luring/driving them there. And again, a final appearance by the Governor at the prison would kinda/sorta get things back on the comic book track.
Maybe. Maybe they've been exposed to some form of active Zombie virus from all the Zombies around. The people involved in the show have flat out said the show is not going to have anything to do with the comic storyline anymore so they won't be getting back on track ever. It would seem they are still going to bring in the characters though as per The Talking Dead.
I thought it was a solid opener. I kept wondering why Rick was helping the crazy lady, although I guess it's intended to show that Rick hasn't given up on others and the idea of treating each other in a civilized, humane way.
Spoiler:
He left two walkers in that clearing for some poor sod to stumble across. His mercy seems quite random like the hitchhiker left behind in the previous season.
Given the propensity for "walkers" to be crawlers I'd have thought by now that standard kit would include bite proof protection of the lower legs in regards the guy that got chomped in the store.
The extra protection on the main gate is a nice addition but they need something similar around the whole perimeter to prevent concentrations of walkers. In the comic use is made of things like ditches and spiked barricades (like when Rick meets up with Morgan again).
In regards the Governor and his abilities mentioned earlier, he was parasitising off people rather than actually providing a service. It only looked like he was providing because he was attacking other people to get their stuff. Anyone who was remotely competent was eliminated as a potential threat to his position meaning that he was surrounded by lackeys rather than people who would be useful long term. He infiltrated his own safe zone with walkers to provide entertainment and of cource his "daughter". In the end he killed off a large part of his population, the part that would have been better capable of defending against the walkers than those left behind at that.
We know they already carry the zombification virus. And we know that zombie bites cause the fever disease that kills. So either it's two virii (although I don't remember the guy at the CDC saying anything about that), or it's one virus that activates somehow at death, causing zombification in a dead boy and the fever in a live body.
We haven't seen any issues with animals being affected that I can recall, but I guess that doesn't really mean anything, especially if the only effect on animals is the fever sickness. So maybe the pig found a zombie part in the mud somewhere and ate it. The active virus killed the pig, although didn't cause zombification.
Spoiler:
Fine, but then since everyone else that ate the pig was apparently immune, does this indicate some kind of virus mutation that will only affect certain people?
I kinda hope there's a rationale behind this and explanation eventually coming. It won't matter to everyone, but it matters to me.
You have to ask if the virus is specific to humans and if so why? Can other primates get it? Are there zombie gorrilas out there or just us humans? Pigs are fairly close genetically which is why they get used in medical research and why they are used to grow organs, maybe that's why a pig might get sick and die from the same virus but not become a zombie pig. Obviously the world is not full of zombie animals or dead ones which suggests that most animals are immune from the effects of the virus. Think how many birds and other animals must have eaten corpses by now, or if they instictively know not to eat zombie flesh then the pig probably wouldn't have eaten zombie flesh.
Maybe the pig simply has something like mad cow disease, avian/swine flu. Was the porker in the woods dead from a trap or dying of disease, wasn't sure.
When are they going to bring back the Shane and Laurie story line? I kid. I kid. I hope they don't pull anymore of that Days of our Lives crap from season 2.
I reckon the Governor will be the season's boogey man and show up somewhere near the end of the season with buddy and what's-his-name as his zombified escorts.
@cadbren: I think the kevlar pants/chaps that lumberjacks wear combined with a good set of tall leather boots might do the job for crawler protection without being overly heavy or bulky. Those shin guards to protect against snake bites would be an improvement too, although possibly harder to find/scrounge. I think a good power tool shop might have the pants.
Your comments about the governor got me thinking about how they contrast with a certain antagonist in the comic book right now. I think people have labeled him "another governor," but that's not really true.
I'm kinda backing off on speculating too much about the virus. Frankly, I'm not sure if it'll be fully explained, and maybe that makes sense. They don't have an epidemiologist in the group, and it's probably unrealistic that they'd figure it all out anyway.
You don't even need any of that. Just raid a motorcyle dealership and get some nice leathers and boots. BAM! you're good to go. Full suit O armor against the Zeds. Add in a chainsaw, a lever action Winchester 12 gauge, and some cool taglines, and you're the ultimate Zed killing machine.
Remember, despite TV, human bite strength is not good, and thats before you're even dead.
I'd start by scrounging at your local Stihl's or Husky dealer. Might find some other good stuff there too. Not sure it'd be the first place to get looted after things go to hell.
Instead of trying to find leather in bulk why not go around to all the Abandoned cars and take the seatbelts. The materials its made out of are really strong and can easily stop a dog bite. If wraped around your legs like so
Either on the inside of your pants or the outside, the zombies won't be able to bite through it.
gorgon wrote: I'd start by scrounging at your local Stihl's or Husky dealer. Might find some other good stuff there too. Not sure it'd be the first place to get looted after things go to hell.
Wait...do they have trees in Texas?
Er what? They have those?
And yes East Texas has giant pines, trees fit for giants.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ninjacommando wrote: Instead of trying to find leather in bulk why not go around to all the Abandoned cars and take the seatbelts. The materials its made out of are really strong and can easily stop a dog bite. If wraped around your legs like so
Either on the inside of your pants or the outside, the zombies won't be able to bite through it.
Could probably just sew them on as well. Honestly now that you think about it, any burlap or good canvass is pretty people bite proof on the puncture front. We're not exactly bears. Crushing with the back molars is pretty good but puncturing not so much.
gorgon wrote: I'd start by scrounging at your local Stihl's or Husky dealer. Might find some other good stuff there too. Not sure it'd be the first place to get looted after things go to hell.
Wait...do they have trees in Texas?
Er what? They have those?
And yes East Texas has giant pines, trees fit for giants.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ninjacommando wrote: Instead of trying to find leather in bulk why not go around to all the Abandoned cars and take the seatbelts. The materials its made out of are really strong and can easily stop a dog bite. If wraped around your legs like so
Either on the inside of your pants or the outside, the zombies won't be able to bite through it.
Could probably just sew them on as well. Honestly now that you think about it, any burlap or good canvass is pretty people bite proof on the puncture front. We're not exactly bears. Crushing with the back molars is pretty good but puncturing not so much.
But they aren't waterproof, are they? I assume that any zombie bite has zombo-virus in the mouth fluid, so even if they only crush you bad enough to tear your skin open under the seat-belt, you'd stand a risk of infection, yeah? Maybe seatbelt armor with latex underneath? Not sure exactly how strong a human bite is/how weak the proposed armor materials are, but you've also got to watch out for zombies that bite harder than people (since they won't stop for fear of injuring themselves) as well as zombies that DO have puncturing implements in their mouths (as a result of broken bones and teeth).
Still, seatbelts are a GREAT stopgap. I never thought of that. (Thanks Frazzled!)
the season premiere was pretty sick, thoroughly looking forward to this coming sunday.
you have to think though, head-to-toe protective clothing might not be an option depending on the weather.
i know i most certainly would want to stay as lightweight as possible for escape purposes and the heat. i'd be sure to cover the common areas of unexpected bites, such as the hands / wrists and the ankles, other than that, stay aware, stay alive!
does anyone remember the "bear suit" from ripley's believe it or not? now THAT would be epic during a zombie apocalypse, granted you couldn't move very fast / far.
gorgon wrote: @cadbren: I think the kevlar pants/chaps that lumberjacks wear combined with a good set of tall leather boots might do the job for crawler protection without being overly heavy or bulky. Those shin guards to protect against snake bites would be an improvement too, although possibly harder to find/scrounge. I think a good power tool shop might have the pants.
Your comments about the governor got me thinking about how they contrast with a certain antagonist in the comic book right now. I think people have labeled him "another governor," but that's not really true.
I'm kinda backing off on speculating too much about the virus. Frankly, I'm not sure if it'll be fully explained, and maybe that makes sense. They don't have an epidemiologist in the group, and it's probably unrealistic that they'd figure it all out anyway.
You know, I don't think a person with a healthy set of teeth could bite through anything heavier than light cloth. While the bite could still do damage, even through lighter types of denim or leather, the tearing away of chunks of flesh is not realistic, we don't have the sharp teeth of carnivores that allow animals like dogs to rip people apart. Maybe some saliva soaks through the fabric, but heavier denim and leather would stop even this. I think a pair or two of long boot socks with jeans over the top would probably suffice. This is against a healthy set of teeth too. How long would teeth last in a rotting corpse before they started to fall out from decay, biting stuff, being knocked out through falls and crashes? Ater two years of this treatment I'd think most of the zombies would have incredibly poor teeth and weak jaws from years of muscle wastage. in fact the zombies should be getting weaker overall as they waste away with few new victims to replace their threat. Maybe that's why communities can start to rebuild again, because the zombies simply aren't the threat they used to be.
This has been covered a bit way back in the thread. Basically Zombies are often stronger than a living person because they've lost that part of them that prevents a person from using their body in a self destructive way. A person simply can't fling their arm with enough strength to blow out all it's muscles and shatter all their bones just to bash a door. Their brain won't let them, zombies have no such compunctions.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: This has been covered a bit way back in the thread. Basically Zombies are often stronger than a living person because they've lost that part of them that prevents a person from using their body in a self destructive way. A person simply can't fling their arm with enough strength to blow out all it's muscles and shatter all their bones just to bash a door. Their brain won't let them, zombies have no such compunctions.
It's not about strength, our teeth aren't sharp enough to cut through fibres like denim and leather, that's why we invented knives. The clamping action of the jaw could cause severe injury but it wouldn't cause the person to join the undead. As you point out, zombies put all their effort into something so they're likely to become severely damaged the longer they're active. After two years or so, most of them would be emaciated and also be weakened by crippling injuries.
Yes, eventually all Zombies will rot away but it's longer than 2 years. Zombies don't rot away at a normal rate. It takes like 7 years or something like that and even then it would only be the day zero zombies.
The problem for most of the survivors now isn't the zombies anyways it's the humans. Something like over 90% of the characters on this show that have been killed we're killed by humans not zombies.
The traitor was a surprise, but not really, if that makes sense. The Governor would probably try to infiltrate the place, and Mr. New-Guy-Who-Just-Wants-To-Earn-Your-Trust is the obvious choice. Could be a red herring setting up some shocking new twist that will change everything(!). But if it was real life, yeah, he'd be the guy.
So it's another superbug. Meh. On Talking Dead, the producer(?) explained they got the idea from some pandemic 100 or so years ago. Personally, I think it's highly contrived that they're struggling with some obscure superflu from the past instead of something far more common and likely. But I guess they need the drop-over-dead-in-a-day factor. *shrug*
I still say this is headed toward something not dissimilar to the comic, with the governor forcing the group to leave the prison. The defenses are shaky, the food situation looks less sustainable all the time, and now the place is crawling with germs. They're teetering now, AND also have an enemy operative inside ready to do something big at the right moment.
I also fear that Judith's days are very numbered. But I'm hoping they diverge from the comic on that point and keep her around just because she serves as a symbol of hope for the future. It's also an interesting difference if they continue the storyline with Rick trying to be a dad to a young 'un alongside all the insanity.
gorgon wrote: @cadbren: I think the kevlar pants/chaps that lumberjacks wear combined with a good set of tall leather boots might do the job for crawler protection without being overly heavy or bulky. Those shin guards to protect against snake bites would be an improvement too, although possibly harder to find/scrounge. I think a good power tool shop might have the pants.
Your comments about the governor got me thinking about how they contrast with a certain antagonist in the comic book right now. I think people have labeled him "another governor," but that's not really true.
I'm kinda backing off on speculating too much about the virus. Frankly, I'm not sure if it'll be fully explained, and maybe that makes sense. They don't have an epidemiologist in the group, and it's probably unrealistic that they'd figure it all out anyway.
You know, I don't think a person with a healthy set of teeth could bite through anything heavier than light cloth. While the bite could still do damage, even through lighter types of denim or leather, the tearing away of chunks of flesh is not realistic, we don't have the sharp teeth of carnivores that allow animals like dogs to rip people apart. Maybe some saliva soaks through the fabric, but heavier denim and leather would stop even this. I think a pair or two of long boot socks with jeans over the top would probably suffice. This is against a healthy set of teeth too. How long would teeth last in a rotting corpse before they started to fall out from decay, biting stuff, being knocked out through falls and crashes? Ater two years of this treatment I'd think most of the zombies would have incredibly poor teeth and weak jaws from years of muscle wastage. in fact the zombies should be getting weaker overall as they waste away with few new victims to replace their threat. Maybe that's why communities can start to rebuild again, because the zombies simply aren't the threat they used to be.
I think the rats are done by the kids who name the zombies and try to treat them as pets so they are feeding them. As for the new zombie super flu... do they know that the flu comes from south east/east asia every year and is only transported because of people/products that carry the virus with them and in a world with no more trade/transportation across the globe NA is pretty immune from flu outbreaks. but what ever we now have zombie flu thats not a flu but is a flu.....
is the zombie virus now just Zombie plaque, do we fix this problem by making sure everyone brushes their teeth 24/7 so when they turn they have nice clean teeth? cause in WWZ the virus wasn't in the blood of the infected... it was in the teeth.
If they were trying to feed them, we can assume that they'd shove them through the fence instead of putting them on the other side tantalizingly out of reach.
Isn't there a crazy girl who thinks the walkers are just sick people like Herschel and his family used to? I recall one of the children saying something like that.
Perhaps, but again why not push the rat through the fence if your intent is to feed them? Why put leave them where they can't reach? Also, remember the half-butchered deer that Rick found in the opener. Things kinda point to someone luring walkers, but I guess you never know.
I read a theory elsewhere that Karen is the traitor. According to this idea, she faked her death, covering it up with the burned body(-ies), presumably of her stand-in and maybe someone who caught her in the act/learned her secret. It's probably off the mark, but it explains the burned bodies, at least.
The traitor was a surprise, but not really, if that makes sense. The Governor would probably try to infiltrate the place, and Mr. New-Guy-Who-Just-Wants-To-Earn-Your-Trust is the obvious choice. Could be a red herring setting up some shocking new twist that will change everything(!). But if it was real life, yeah, he'd be the guy.
So it's another superbug. Meh. On Talking Dead, the producer(?) explained they got the idea from some pandemic 100 or so years ago. Personally, I think it's highly contrived that they're struggling with some obscure superflu from the past instead of something far more common and likely. But I guess they need the drop-over-dead-in-a-day factor. *shrug*
I still say this is headed toward something not dissimilar to the comic, with the governor forcing the group to leave the prison. The defenses are shaky, the food situation looks less sustainable all the time, and now the place is crawling with germs. They're teetering now, AND also have an enemy operative inside ready to do something big at the right moment.
I also fear that Judith's days are very numbered. But I'm hoping they diverge from the comic on that point and keep her around just because she serves as a symbol of hope for the future. It's also an interesting difference if they continue the storyline with Rick trying to be a dad to a young 'un alongside all the insanity.
What traitor are you talking about?
They said it was inspired by the 1918 Spanish flu which was the most deadly epidemic of all time. That being said I'm not sure it actually caused your eyes to explode and death in less than a day. However, its only inspired by it so its like the 1918 flu but worse.
You think with glenn and maggie sleeping in the tower they would hear someone walking around and look to see who it is. Being in a guard tower outside you would think that is their duty to watch the fense at night. But NOPE lets let our guards down and never look outside.
Actaully the biggest thing that bothers me this season is that they have 6 Cheval de frise for the front gate but then didn;t make more to put around the entire fense area to kill the walker/ prevent them from touching the fence.
The idea of someone luring them to the prison makes sense though the walkers were somehow finding the prison before they even met the govenor. Maybe they make a lot of noise or the generators are noisy. I can't think of a good reason the walkers keep appearing at the prison or where they keep coming from.
It's a bit like the biting, we have poor hearing over long distances. If we heard a gunshot, the chances of knowing in which direction it came from are bad, yet the walkers are always able to follow sound to its source like dogs.
Depending on the nature of the zombie virus, I think the living would do a lot better in a real zombie outbreak than the stories suggest.
cadbren wrote: The idea of someone luring them to the prison makes sense though the walkers were somehow finding the prison before they even met the govenor. Maybe they make a lot of noise or the generators are noisy. I can't think of a good reason the walkers keep appearing at the prison or where they keep coming from.
It's a bit like the biting, we have poor hearing over long distances. If we heard a gunshot, the chances of knowing in which direction it came from are bad, yet the walkers are always able to follow sound to its source like dogs.
Depending on the nature of the zombie virus, I think the living would do a lot better in a real zombie outbreak than the stories suggest.
They'd probably do awesome, because the zombies are like...dead.
A more realistic scenario, a super fast rabies type thing would be different. On the other hand people rabies victims don't live that long.
They'd probably do awesome, because the zombies are like...dead.
They prefer to be called undead, death's hard enough as it is without vitality slurs.
A more realistic scenario, a super fast rabies type thing would be different. On the other hand people rabies victims don't live that long.
Hmm, sounds like a good plot for a movie. It's a fast acting virus so they could call it 28 hours later or something. It could start off with a guy waking up in hospital and finding the world's gone to hell, sort of like how 'The Walking Dead' starts (and a couple of others).
The traitor was a surprise, but not really, if that makes sense. The Governor would probably try to infiltrate the place, and Mr. New-Guy-Who-Just-Wants-To-Earn-Your-Trust is the obvious choice. Could be a red herring setting up some shocking new twist that will change everything(!). But if it was real life, yeah, he'd be the guy.
So it's another superbug. Meh. On Talking Dead, the producer(?) explained they got the idea from some pandemic 100 or so years ago. Personally, I think it's highly contrived that they're struggling with some obscure superflu from the past instead of something far more common and likely. But I guess they need the drop-over-dead-in-a-day factor. *shrug*
I still say this is headed toward something not dissimilar to the comic, with the governor forcing the group to leave the prison. The defenses are shaky, the food situation looks less sustainable all the time, and now the place is crawling with germs. They're teetering now, AND also have an enemy operative inside ready to do something big at the right moment.
I also fear that Judith's days are very numbered. But I'm hoping they diverge from the comic on that point and keep her around just because she serves as a symbol of hope for the future. It's also an interesting difference if they continue the storyline with Rick trying to be a dad to a young 'un alongside all the insanity.
Spoiler:
I'm thinking the traitor might be someone within the core group who is having a psychotic break - not necessarily an enemy provocateur and not necessarily a new idea after Rick saw his dead wife everywhere and talked to the dead on the phone...or it could be the overacting girl who had a thing for Nick the zombie...but then again that seems sort of foolish as she'd probably have too much empathy for the rats. As for the flu thing, I've got to agree a bit contrived, but they had to get a surprise to happen inside the prison or else it would've been a lot of sitting around waiting for the Guv and watching them farm with zombies standing around at the fence.
cadbren wrote: The idea of someone luring them to the prison makes sense though the walkers were somehow finding the prison before they even met the govenor. Maybe they make a lot of noise or the generators are noisy. I can't think of a good reason the walkers keep appearing at the prison or where they keep coming from.
It's a bit like the biting, we have poor hearing over long distances. If we heard a gunshot, the chances of knowing in which direction it came from are bad, yet the walkers are always able to follow sound to its source like dogs.
Depending on the nature of the zombie virus, I think the living would do a lot better in a real zombie outbreak than the stories suggest.
I felt that way during episode 1. I mean, sure, I guess the population of Atlanta is slowly dumping into the surrounding country. But it seems unreasonable to me why so many should be coming to the prison from miles around. As far as we can tell, they're being very careful about not firing guns -- perhaps to save ammo as much as anything, but the point remains. Their trips on horseback or in cars may be luring some. But they've shown shot after shot of that constant flow, and I don't remember seeing that in the previous season, even when they were firing guns like crazy.
Regarding gunshots, my hunting experience has been that it can be hard to tell the exact direction of a single gunshot. Multiple gunshots are a different matter, however.
@KamikazeCanuck:
Spoiler:
Did you miss the first few minutes when we see someone at night feeding rats to walkers at the fence? Again, that could be a misguided soul, but I think the rats that have been strategically left *inside* the fence are the clue that it's something else.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ninjacommando wrote: You think with glenn and maggie sleeping in the tower they would hear someone walking around and look to see who it is. Being in a guard tower outside you would think that is their duty to watch the fense at night. But NOPE lets let our guards down and never look outside.
Actaully the biggest thing that bothers me this season is that they have 6 Cheval de frise for the front gate but then didn;t make more to put around the entire fense area to kill the walker/ prevent them from touching the fence.
I think a running theme this season is that they've gotten quite lax (exhausted is probably closer to the mark) and lost some of their edge. Rick doesn't carry a gun, Carl doesn't wear the hat, Glenn and Maggie sleep during the night, and there's no one up standing watch inside the prison blocks just in case. People do sometimes suddenly die in the middle of the night. Even if that risk is very small, they should always have someone standing watch in each block to prevent exactly what happened.
Regarding the defenses, they probably have something like a mile of fence to protect and not enough manpower. Not only would building the defenses be hard work, you'd need a team of fighters to keep the zombies off them while they work. They could probably get tricky and block off areas with trucks, etc. But it'd be a hugely labor-intensive operation.
You'd probably still want kill teams with spears in the truck beds, and kill teams inside the truck ring to protect against crawlers. And backups for both when they get tired (at the rate the zombies are arriving, that wouldn't take long).
It'd be an awfully labor-intensive operation, and it doesn't seem like they're overflowing with able-bodied men.
gorgon wrote: I think a running theme this season is that they've gotten quite lax (exhausted is probably closer to the mark) and lost some of their edge. Rick doesn't carry a gun, Carl doesn't wear the hat, Glenn and Maggie sleep during the night, and there's no one up standing watch inside the prison blocks just in case. People do sometimes suddenly die in the middle of the night. Even if that risk is very small, they should always have someone standing watch in each block to prevent exactly what happened.
Rick and Carl don't wear guns because Rick intentionally stopped carrying his gun. He was going crazy and wanted to stop both himself from going crazy and his sonfrom turning into a murder machine. The latest episode makes this pretty clear. Of course, he gets the gun back as well.
My only bone to pick is that there should be people out on the fence every day poking zombies in the head.
And the rats are pretty clearly the crazy little girl.
That's a strong possiability, I definantly see season 3 ending in a blood bath with at least 3 major characters buying the farm.
. Way to kill a character.
