After months of non-stop heresy marines and a set of twin linked devourers, we get a giant lizard with some lizardman doodads hanging from it? Some frills or unique scaling would've been nice, where's the creativity?
Some chains leading to frantic Saurus trying to control it or a skink howdah mounted onto the back of the thing would have been a nice touch, at the moment I agree that it looks like a (very nice) lizard model with some random 'bits' plastered all over it.
It just doesn't look finished to me, I guess the artist got pulled off of the project to go and finish yet more marine shoulderpads.
I don't try to be deliberately contrary, but it does tickle me that immediately after several pages of people waxing lyrical about yet another weapon variant on a Space Marine tank chassis, we get something that is a genuine departure from the relentless Heresy treadmill, and a sculpt that is very well observed and well painted (which hasn't been a gimme for FW releases of late) and the initial response is negative/neutral.
Perhaps because I don't play WHFB and am just looking at it from a "oh, cool, giant lizard!" perspective, but I actually really like it!
azreal13 wrote: I don't try to be deliberately contrary, but it does tickle me that immediately after several pages of people waxing lyrical about yet another weapon variant on a Space Marine tank chassis, we get something that is a genuine departure from the relentless Heresy treadmill, and a sculpt that is very well observed and well painted (which hasn't been a gimme for FW releases of late) and the initial response is negative/neutral.
It's a WHFB release on a 40k-heavy site. TBH it's not a bad model or anything, it's just even less interesting than yet another generic space marine release.
The painting on the Saurian itself is outstanding and I like the design. I think it's only the collar head dress bit that looks off, even the 'saddle bags' would be fine with a slightly more muted colour. I'd love to see them painted like stone or jade, or even a less shiny gold, just to see what it'd be like.
I'm as bored as anyone at the relentless trudge through Space Marine variant after variant, and I should be excited about the Lizardman release, but I have to admit to being somewhat underwhelmed. Maybe I need to get a sense of scale of the thing. It does seem unfinished though - I would have liked to have seen Lizardman gold plates all over this beastie, and more decorative gold on the back spines too. It's very obviously a T-rex head too, which just seems a bit lazy. It's a very nice paintjob, but it doesn't fit in too well with the GW house style, it's too naturalistic.
Wow, very grumpy response to what is a cool model! ; )
I love it, and am glad it only has limited doodadery adorning it. I do agree that some handlers in mortal peril, barely keeping the monster under control would have been a fantastic touch though.
Moar non-SM releases makes me a happy camper as well.
EDIT: And I hope those t-shirts are available for general purchase at some point as I'd add three of them to my wardrobe immediately
azreal13 wrote: I don't try to be deliberately contrary, but it does tickle me that immediately after several pages of people waxing lyrical about yet another weapon variant on a Space Marine tank chassis, we get something that is a genuine departure from the relentless Heresy treadmill, and a sculpt that is very well observed and well painted (which hasn't been a gimme for FW releases of late) and the initial response is negative/neutral.
It's a WHFB release on a 40k-heavy site. TBH it's not a bad model or anything, it's just even less interesting than yet another generic space marine release.
Either you're right, and that makes me sad for the mentality of the average Dakkite, or you're wrong, and that makes me sad for your opinion of your fellow posters.
And that lovable assassin with the heart of gold, doing bad John Wayne impressions and fending off the sexual advances of a pubescent Natalie Portman..
Anywho, not sure what else they could have done with the big lizard. It's cool, but I think the underwhelming part is its attention to anatomical realism: it's done so well that it almost doesn't fit a fantasy game, if that makes sense.
I don't try to be deliberately contrary, but it does tickle me that immediately after several pages of people waxing lyrical about yet another weapon variant on a Space Marine tank chassis, we get something that is a genuine departure from the relentless Heresy treadmill, and a sculpt that is very well observed and well painted (which hasn't been a gimme for FW releases of late) and the initial response is negative/neutral.
Perhaps because I don't play WHFB and am just looking at it from a "oh, cool, giant lizard!" perspective, but I actually really like it!
The problem I have with it and many lizardmen players have with it is it does not match the lizardmen look...a lot of us have been calling it a cat/rat with scales and spikes for the long time...I personally hate the tail...
its musculature and bone structure dont look like they work where as most of the dragons forgeworld makes do look like they work...
and then the stones they strapped to it look like an after thought and if i remember correctly the designer had originally said she (Trish) would not put armor on it to allow you to customize it your own ways...
its a big resin rat with scales and I was looking forward to it based off of the original artwork from the MA book...
in short it falls on its face compared to the arework which looked like a huge lizardman walking hunched on all 4s
At first I thought it was great... now that the rat connection has been pointed out to me... I have to agree, it looks pretty bad... maybe its just angle?
Also need one of those Death Guard T-shirts. Please can someone pick up one for me??
I remember last year though, all the XXL's were sold out pretty quickly. Says something about the gaming community!!
kronk wrote: I like it, but it's not Space Marines so it doesn't work for me.
Exactly why Forge World has been so focused on Imperial stuff, mainly Space Marines, and is now making their own Horus Heresy. Also why Warhammer Forge has been put on hiatus save for the few model releases here and there. Like what you like of course but damn I wish they'd make some more xenos or hell something from Fantasy
kronk wrote: I like it, but it's not Space Marines so it doesn't work for me.
Exactly why Forge World has been so focused on Imperial stuff, mainly Space Marines, and is now making their own Horus Heresy. Also why Warhammer Forge has been put on hiatus save for the few model releases here and there. Like what you like of course but damn I wish they'd make some more xenos or hell something from Fantasy
You must be new here!
The Kronk was joking!
I think.
Buit either way, yeah, Space Marines sell.
Pre-Heresy and Heresy Era Marines sell even better.
Looks like the Postosuchus from Walking with Dinosaurs. I think it's fantastic, and almost makes me want to collect Lizardmen! Also it's head doesn't look much like a T-rex.. It has a red mo-hawk, horns sticking out of it's cheek, needle teeth and it's bottom jaw is wiry and weird. It's an amazing sculpt and I have a feeling people are just jumping on the "let's call everything big a (insert name of toy here)" band wagon. No one insulted the Squiggoths when they came out or the Tyranid Bio-Titans. After the Chaos "Dino-Bots" everyone seems to just insult anything their size or bigger that isn't a tank or aircraft these days... /rant
gorgon wrote: I think it's a terrific model that looks nothing like a rat.
There could be some confusion about this just because GW Skaven, rats, etc. sometimes look more like lizards than rodents.
That's a well fed rat. The Dread saurian looks emaciated. It goes from large head, stocky torso, then suddenly scrawny abdomen, then bulky hips, and scrawny tail. The paint job is excellent, but the proportions/body contour and many of the details are odd. The spines on the back of most animals follows a sort of pattern or gradient, the dread saurian has random length spikes all along the length of the back.
I tried to find a good picture of what I was talking about, but even this drowned sewer rat looks healthier than the Saurian. Maybe the Lizardmen starve it to make it meaner?
Peregrine wrote: It's a WHFB release on a 40k-heavy site. TBH it's not a bad model or anything, it's just even less interesting than yet another generic space marine release.
It's a profoundly uninteresting model. A giant lizard for an army made up of giant lizards.
Azazelx wrote: Fudge. Only 1500 of the HH3 SE? The regular sale being "sometime in the next few weeks?" So basically, It'll sell out while we're sleeping or at work or summat. Bah.
What's the minimum order for free shipping again?
Tell me about it. 1500 copies isn't going to last long
I can imagine the majority of them being sold at the Open Day, I hope I manage to get one there anyway!
When I was a swim instructor in high school and college, I also was in charge of pool maintenance.
The only thing worse that the day I had to pull a dead rat out of the filter cage (and it looked just like that), was the day a 3' snake slithered out the second I opened the "door" to the filter trap!
kronk wrote: I like it, but it's not Space Marines so it doesn't work for me.
Exactly why Forge World has been so focused on Imperial stuff, mainly Space Marines, and is now making their own Horus Heresy. Also why Warhammer Forge has been put on hiatus save for the few model releases here and there. Like what you like of course but damn I wish they'd make some more xenos or hell something from Fantasy
You must be new here!
The Kronk was joking!
Mostly, but yes!
I also wish we'd see Imperial Armor 13 soon. There were a number of rumors about Slaanesh getting some love, or perhaps even Necrons. Those rumors are close to 2 years old, and I can't be bothered to look them up. The point is, I agree that I wish other stuff would get some attention. I also understand that I am loving the 30k releases so much that I'm getting a bit spoiled and overwhelmed by it all.
The dreaded Pyroclasts are the burning fury of the Salamanders Legion given form. The Pyroclasts were created by Vulcan, Primach of the Salamanders, to fulfil the role of bringers of destruction, equipping them with advanced and extremely powerful thermal/incendiary weapons of his own devising known as flame projectors. To the Salamanders fire is more than merely a weapon; it has an almost mythical function and embodies both purifying destruction and the potential for rebirth and redemption.
In battle they are relentless and remorseless, and where they are unleashed there can be no possibility of mercy or reprieve from the fire.
The Salamanders Legion Pyroclasts set, designed by Keith Robertson, is a complete multi-part resin kit comprising of five models armed with Pyroclast flame projectors, one of which is also armed with a power fist. This set is available to order now.
The dreaded Pyroclasts are the burning fury of the Salamanders Legion given form. The Pyroclasts were created by Vulcan, Primach of the Salamanders, to fulfil the role of bringers of destruction, equipping them with advanced and extremely powerful thermal/incendiary weapons of his own devising known as flame projectors. To the Salamanders fire is more than merely a weapon; it has an almost mythical function and embodies both purifying destruction and the potential for rebirth and redemption.
In battle they are relentless and remorseless, and where they are unleashed there can be no possibility of mercy or reprieve from the fire.
The Salamanders Legion Pyroclasts set, designed by Keith Robertson, is a complete multi-part resin kit comprising of five models armed with Pyroclast flame projectors, one of which is also armed with a power fist. This set is available to order now.
I really like the models, but I don't care for the "Drake-skin masks". It's certainly different, though!
Fully agree, bit too much skin, but I think the masks work - there's a certain middle eastern theme there. If there's a trend, we can probably expect to see some toned-down Salamanders in the relatively short term - I'm thinking of the Night Lords raptors that we all thought went a bit heavy on the skin and bat wings, and the less OTT upgrade kits that followed.
I really love the masks (and the flamers), but I would have done without the additional pieces of skin hanging from their belts.
Even so, as far as Legion-specific units go I prefer them to the Night Lords and Word Bearer ones which I regard as misses (at least until I see some brilliantly painted ones on CMON).
Not bad, but I would have preferred if their guns were two-handed, like heavy weapons. Make them look more menacing and more like they are there to purge with fire.
After all, these are the "nice" version of Destroyer squads.
Also, what do we have left now for units?
- Firedrake Terminators
- Gorgon Terminators
- Gal Vaborak
And then it's just character models, right? I wonder if some will be done like Autek Mor and released as "generic" models.
Not a fan of the face masks at all, but underslung heavy flamers are awesome. I foresee massive casting issues with the cabling connecting from flamer to backpack, though, based on previous forge world experience.
I'm actually really digging the face mask. Looks like they're molded into the torso, though; which is kind of disappointing. I'd love to use them on some of my Alpha Legion.
Bull0 wrote: Fully agree, bit too much skin, but I think the masks work - there's a certain middle eastern theme there. If there's a trend, we can probably expect to see some toned-down Salamanders in the relatively short term - I'm thinking of the Night Lords raptors that we all thought went a bit heavy on the skin and bat wings, and the less OTT upgrade kits that followed.
Wait, do you seriously think that the Forge World Night Lords kits are bit on the wings?
Peregrine wrote: It's a WHFB release on a 40k-heavy site. TBH it's not a bad model or anything, it's just even less interesting than yet another generic space marine release.
It's a profoundly uninteresting model. A giant lizard for an army made up of giant lizards.
Unfortunately for me it's another Trish Carden work. The teeth man. The teeth. The teeth just kill any interest in the thing. No matter what she sculpts they all end up with the same abominable TEETH.
Don't think the mask skins work at the aesthetic level - like the Night Lord helms that came out a while ago, it just seems bodged on to try and give them an identifying character but just looks conceited.
Think that they would look way better with beaky helms, as is the way for all marines
i thought it looked really cool in the drawing, Pacific, but i'm not so sure on the sculpt...
i still don't mind it on the helmets, but the drake skins all over the legs is killing it for me, and i was so excited for a Sallies unit, too:(...
guess i'm waiting for Space Wolves before i jump into painting 30K...
I don't try to be deliberately contrary, but it does tickle me that immediately after several pages of people waxing lyrical about yet another weapon variant on a Space Marine tank chassis, we get something that is a genuine departure from the relentless Heresy treadmill, and a sculpt that is very well observed and well painted (which hasn't been a gimme for FW releases of late) and the initial response is negative/neutral.
Perhaps because I don't play WHFB and am just looking at it from a "oh, cool, giant lizard!" perspective, but I actually really like it!
I'm sure part of the problem is that WHFB people who aren't in to HH stuff probably rarely check this thread or the FW site in general because they rarely have anything for them.
I kind of like the giant Lizard. Yeah, it looks a bit like a toy with some lizardmen bits pasted on... but, err... so do all lizardmen monsters.
Peregrine wrote: It's a WHFB release on a 40k-heavy site. TBH it's not a bad model or anything, it's just even less interesting than yet another generic space marine release.
It's a profoundly uninteresting model. A giant lizard for an army made up of giant lizards.
Opposed to the dudes in power armour for armies made up of dudes in power armour, lol. I kind of like the giant lizard, but then I collect Lizardmen so I like cool looking lizard models.
Scottywan82 wrote: Not bad, but I would have preferred if their guns were two-handed, like heavy weapons. Make them look more menacing and more like they are there to purge with fire.
After all, these are the "nice" version of Destroyer squads.
Also, what do we have left now for units?
- Firedrake Terminators
- Gorgon Terminators
- Gal Vaborak
And then it's just character models, right? I wonder if some will be done like Autek Mor and released as "generic" models.
I will be very interested to see what they do with the Gorgons- Massacre says that Gorgon pattern terminator armour is based off Indomitus pattern terminator armour that was being improved by Ferrus Manus and his artificers, so it is a variant of the standard (Indomitus) GW terminator armour. I want to see how FW make it their own.
Overall, the new Salamanders models look awesome. But they also show the reason why I can't bring myself to do a Salamanders army. I love their fluff, I like their rules, but I just can't stand the drake skin bling.
Anyone else notice that the new Horus heresy book extermination is being described as the collectors edition? Are we going to see all the books re released in soft back? Kind of like the reverse of what black library are doing with the novels
Knockagh wrote: Anyone else notice that the new Horus heresy book extermination is being described as the collectors edition? Are we going to see all the books re released in soft back? Kind of like the reverse of what black library are doing with the novels
Does the collectors' edition part refer to the special collection of Extermination, separately-bound Legion army list & Legion-specific rules books, and the exclusive art book, all in the fancy sleeve?
EDIT: On which subject - so sick of companies making concept art books into Super Special Secret Exclusive Editions Available for a Limited Time Only. Hello, Forgeworld, over here, yes the bloke waving at you; we live in a world in which Print On Demand is a thing, if you don't think a book would sell well enough to justify a full release, you don't need to do a tiny wee print run and drastically limit the availability. And if it's being made limited just to justify the existence of the Super Special Secret Exclusive Bundle Box Deal thing, that's just a move FW, total move. Not even half of the people who would want a copy of the art book can just magic-up £145 at short notice, but would be happy to pay a premium for it if they could buy it later.
Knockagh wrote: Anyone else notice that the new Horus heresy book extermination is being described as the collectors edition? Are we going to see all the books re released in soft back? Kind of like the reverse of what black library are doing with the novels
Does the collectors' edition part refer to the special collection of Extermination, separately-bound Legion army list & Legion-specific rules books, and the exclusive art book, all in the fancy sleeve?
I hadn't noticed that, it sounds more plausible. I just thought for a brief moment that they thought the buy in to 30k was getting too high and possibly restricting model sales with all these £70 volumes.
Oh sweet merciful Lord, this is the moment I've been waiting for - Salamanders! I've got to say, I love 'em. I'm not overly fond of the greave and belt Drake-skins, but it's a minor gripe for an awesome set I'm not too fussed about the skin obscuring the helmets, as I'm sure the Firedrakes are going to get suitably saurian helms without the drake-scale masks. Now, I'm just going to leave and contentedly burble 'Salamanders' to myself...
Not only that, but with Extermination on sale at the event tomorrow, we'll get to hear about some of the stuff in it. I'll bet dollars to pesos that Alpharius (the Mod) will be hitting F5 on every major info site all day tomorrow to hear about the rules for Alpharius (the Primarch).
Not only that, but with Extermination on sale at the event tomorrow, we'll get to hear about some of the stuff in it. I'll bet dollars to pesos that Alpharius (the Mod) will be hitting F5 on every major info site all day tomorrow to hear about the rules for Alpharius (the Primarch).
Ill be busy finishing up painting a SpecOps for an Infinity event at Adepticon so...
...I'll be hitting F5 on this thread only - don't let me down troops!
bubber wrote: I like the masks myself. Shame they're not in the DG list.
It's a chunk of dead lizard being worn as a veil. I don't think it needs stats, just part of the usual Space Marine 3+ armor save.
I like the details, but he masks are my least favorite part. I guess 'filters' would make sense on a unit that spends a lot of time around ash and smoke, but I like to think Space Marine armor does a better job than reptilian skin at filtering out whatever stuff Space Marines would be affected by.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That Knight looks really different to the standard kit, is it just the arm they've changed or is there something else?
Liking the looks of the Tyranids very creepy looking. Not to sure about the Gorgons they look quite static and look a bit like the old Mk.1 terminators.
Has anyone posted pictures of the Open Day miniatures exclusive to the event? I'm still boggled at the decision to make a space marine special character an event only model.
H.B.M.C. wrote: There appear to be some other Mechanicum things in those pictures (like of the one with a lot of things we've already seen, but to the far left).
The open hatch on the Lancer Knight could mean that it has a fully detailed interior. Really curious to see if that's the case, and if so, how it looks.
If I hadn't already gotten Puppets War equivalents then the Las-Plas and Assault Cannon Razorback turrets would be great news. Just a few years too late really, guys.
Mechanicum Thanatar looks pretty awesome and that Tyranid beastie looks like it will be huge!
This stuff is looking awesome. The Nid-whateveritis is suitably gribbly, and the Nidosaurus Rex looks to be massive. The Ad Mech stuff is really taking off as well, I love the idea of energy shields over armour, very cool.
I'll tell ya what though. I'd much prefer it if FW didn't tell us about any of this stuff, and that we only found out about any of it on the day of pre-orders. I mean, now we have two problems:
1. None of us will want to buy it by the time it finally comes out. Go impulse or go home, really. 2. Every third-party miniature maker under the sun is going to have a Lancer and a Gigantic Robot out before FW has their's out.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'll tell ya what though. I'd much prefer it if FW didn't tell us about any of this stuff, and that we only found out about any of it on the day of pre-orders. I mean, now we have two problems:
1. None of us will want to buy it by the time it finally comes out. Go impulse or go home, really.
Unlikely.
However.. would it hurt if people could already buy the Lancer today?
Nobody is stopping you from buying .. say .. the new Militarum Tempestus in .. say .. 6 months or so, once a suitable period between "reveal" and "I-am-mentally-ready-to-buy-now" has passed for you, no?
The impulse buyers are an additional bonus with no downsides. The "I-need-to-think-about-this-X-months"-buyers are served equally well by either variant.
So while looking over the pictures from the open. I noticed that there are shields with knight house names on them. I bet they fit with in the shield frame of the lancer. I will have some lancers in my household. :-D
Ah neverending... Just saw the painted knight lancers
Alpharius wrote: Shocked that the Knight is a full resin kit and NOT and upgrade/add-on to the recently released plastic kit.
Looks like they do use some plastic parts for internals, like the Space Marine Super-Heavies (upper-arms, shoulders & back I think looking at the photos).
The Lancer does look taller than the Paladin from these images. Hope so as they always were in Epic. In that they had a standard cannon arm rather than the shield along with the shock lance, but it does fit the imagery so will give that a pass. The shield itself is a bit out there tho... curious to see how people will model & paint it. Could look great in the right hands.
With this news that the Lancer is very much its own kit tho, hopefully we'll see Crusaders & Castellans follow up in due course, and be at the stockier, more solid looking end of the scale.
Comparing that knight to the plastic one I have on the sprues here, Id say that it is reusing most of the plastic outer armour panels for the legs and shoulders, , but the legs structures themselves are entirely different, and the big carapace not only has the door for the pilot and it looks like an interior, but is a different profile to the plastic one too.
My only concern here would be how much it will have to cost to justify the price of the plastic one, I'm guessing somewhere around £120, possibly more.
Anyone know what Chapter the Mechanicum are fighting there?
Thanks for that. Hmmm. I kinda think the shield needs filled out with, for lack of a better term 'energy gak'... tho it'd take a standard of modelling & painting better than mine to do it. Ah well.
I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps a sheet of see-through plastic or painted plasti-card.
As to who's getting fought... I see purple tanks...so Emperor's children maybe? Did Word Bearers have red and gold marines? I am not too familiar with Heresy-era marine colors.
Thanks for that. Hmmm. I kinda think the shield needs filled out with, for lack of a better term 'energy gak'... tho it'd take a standard of modelling & painting better than mine to do it. Ah well.
My suggestion for that would either look for bargain bin (about 4-7$) gundam kits with energy shields, buy a couple of them and cut & cobble them together if you want "thick" energy. Otherwise, use something like Acetate paper (thin, transparent plastic sheet) and dye it with a Tamiya clear color like red, blue, orange or green.
Sasori wrote: *Fingers crossed* For a Kutlakh model to make an appearance...
I'd rather have a titan.
I mean, the only SHV crons get are a couple of glorified monoliths (one of which is a not-Aeonic Orb, and neither of which are the megalith nor the abattoir) and a big gun.
Thanks for that. Hmmm. I kinda think the shield needs filled out with, for lack of a better term 'energy gak'... tho it'd take a standard of modelling & painting better than mine to do it. Ah well.
My suggestion for that would either look for bargain bin (about 4-7$) gundam kits with energy shields, buy a couple of them and cut & cobble them together if you want "thick" energy. Otherwise, use something like Acetate paper (thin, transparent plastic sheet) and dye it with a Tamiya clear color like red, blue, orange or green.
Hope that helps.
Ach it's not for me, I'm strictly Ork only. Just a nice thought for how the model might look a little better but yeah, good suggestions there.
I like that H.B.M.C. throws out and obvious troll line and Zwei immediately bites.....
Thanks for the Google Drive link. Lots of great stuff in there.
I'm not a Mechanicum fan, but that Thanatar Siege-bot is just awesome.
Love the Lancer. I think some industrious folks/companies will be coming up with some translucent plastic fillers for those shield voids. I'm thinking something like the Necron Glow rod material.
The Sally Term W.I.P. is nice as well as the Knight shields shown.
H.B.M.C. it looks like those are Emperor's Children in that battle photo.
TalonZahn wrote: I like that H.B.M.C. throws out and obvious troll line and Zwei immediately bites.....
Guilty as charged.
Still, some people (including H.B.M.C. himself, I sometimes fear) might believe that sort of idiocy he posts about how Forge World would be selling less Knight Lancers overall if they'd be available on the day of the reveal (i.e. today).
TalonZahn wrote: I like that H.B.M.C. throws out and obvious troll line and Zwei immediately bites.....
Thanks for the Google Drive link. Lots of great stuff in there.
I'm not a Mechanicum fan, but that Thanatar Siege-bot is just awesome.
Love the Lancer. I think some industrious folks/companies will be coming up with some translucent plastic fillers for those shield voids. I'm thinking something like the Necron Glow rod material.
The Sally Term W.I.P. is nice as well as the Knight shields shown.
H.B.M.C. it looks like those are Emperor's Children in that battle photo.
That would be the tanks, but who are the red guys near them? Word Bearers?
TalonZahn wrote: I like that H.B.M.C. throws out and obvious troll line and Zwei immediately bites.....
I thought the "Waits..." made it obvious, but I guess not...
Thanks for the Google Drive link. Lots of great stuff in there.
TalonZahn wrote: H.B.M.C. it looks like those are Emperor's Children in that battle photo.
Cool. I wonder if that represents something in an upcoming book, or if it's just for funsies. The last few dioramas that FW have done have all been battles within the Heresy, so here's hoping we're getting a full Mechanicum battle soon (plus more minis - c'mon FW, do Skitarii!!!).
Zweischneid wrote: Still, some people (including H.B.M.C. himself, I sometimes fear) might believe that sort of idiocy he posts about how Forge World would be selling less Knight Lancers overall if they'd be available on the day of the reveal (i.e. today).
*hands Zwei some binoculars*
If you look hard enough you can see the point I was making way way in the distance. Quick, before you miss it (again).
Zweischneid wrote: Still, some people (including H.B.M.C. himself, I sometimes fear) might believe that sort of idiocy he posts about how Forge World would be selling less Knight Lancers overall if they'd be available on the day of the reveal (i.e. today).
*hands Zwei some binoculars*
If you look hard enough you can see the point I was making way way in the distance. Quick, before you miss it (again).
So you agree that stuff being available for sale the moment it is revealed has no downsides for sales?
I wonder what those guns are. And is the main gun some sort of super-duper Dark Age energy-based siege cannon? Doesn't look like that thing can hold a lot of big shells given the size of the barrel.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: That would be the tanks, but who are the red guys near them? Word Bearers?
If you zoom in on the picture, which I didn't know you could do until just now, they still look like Emperor's Children and the "red" color seems to be flare off their gold trimmed armor.
I'm really just guessing though. That's what it looks like to me.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: That would be the tanks, but who are the red guys near them? Word Bearers?
If you zoom in on the picture, which I didn't know you could do until just now, they still look like Emperor's Children and the "red" color seems to be flare off their gold trimmed armor.
I'm really just guessing though. That's what it looks like to me.
Upon closer inspection, that red is in fact purple. The gold just made it look redder than it should.
That Thanatos means I have finally found my Mechanicus Standin for a Riptide! Now to find something to use as a Hammerhead, and a Cadre fireblade. Thralls are going to be Fire Warriors.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder what those guns are. And is the main gun some sort of super-duper Dark Age energy-based siege cannon? Doesn't look like that thing can hold a lot of big shells given the size of the barrel.
The barrel has vents on the outside, it's definitely a plasma or conversion beam weapon.
Sonofruss, not only are the legs reversed but so are the arms. and the lance weapon in retracted in to preparing to fire/attack position instead of extended.
Now why didn't they just make this one out of plastic and sell you arm upgrades. I think I will pick one of these up to make my Errant out of. So much better pose and armor plating.
Nicorex wrote: Sonofruss, not only are the legs reversed but so are the arms. and the lance weapon in retracted in to preparing to fire/attack position instead of extended.
Now why didn't they just make this one out of plastic and sell you arm upgrades. I think I will pick one of these up to make my Errant out of. So much better pose and armor plating.
You can swap the arms on the Knight as well so long as you swap the connecting joints too it just looks funny having the ammo hopper on the other side. Yea I thought about doing it to one of mine
Nicorex wrote: I see that CthululsSpy. I am saying they should have just released this model in plastic instead of the one they did. This is a much better model.
Oh right. I thought you meant sell lancer arms for the errant.
Siege Automata!?-Crazy awesome... That thing is huge!
The Lancer, it's great to see more Knights but the epic one had a canon... So I guess it is entirely retooled as a pure close combat Titan hunter... Maybe it's how they're differentiating Lancer from Baron? The shield does make me wonder if they're reducing its armor and stepping up its invulnerable save. Either way it's well made and looks great.
Warpig1815 wrote: Has anybody got another picture of the WIP Salamanders terminator? I can't seem to get H.B.M.C's pictures to display.
If you go to the google drive link posted last page, there are 3 pics at different angles there but you have to click on the image to enlarge them. Basically a chunky TH/SS sallie terminator character.
Could you post some pics of the minis? I'm not really sure what the show exclusive ones are as I think the Iron Father one was later mentioned as a general release instead of a show exclusive.
Thanks! I missed that.
3d6 running in shooting phase... Speedy
Lance and cannon in one... Cool, there is my cannon.
No shield on rear and lower front armor but the invulnerable save applies to close combat... Interesting, but i forsee lancers getting shot down.
Alpharius wrote: Shocked that the Knight is a full resin kit and NOT and upgrade/add-on to the recently released plastic kit.
Weird decision there...
The Epic Lancers are very different from Paladins/Errants, so it looks like they were following that concept. Looks like everything except the body and hips are different from the Paladin kit, so not much to cross over...
MajorWesJanson wrote: That Thanatos means I have finally found my Mechanicus Standin for a Riptide! Now to find something to use as a Hammerhead, and a Cadre fireblade. Thralls are going to be Fire Warriors.
You mean like this?
OMGWTFBBQ that Siege walker is amazing.
Who was saying that Mechanicum aren't going to get any giant walkers/.
aka_mythos wrote: It happens any time GW makes a new army or revisits an army after a long time, what you had before will tend to look out of place.
I don't think we'll see Mechanicum get large walkers beyond knights. Aesthetically I think GW/FW see it as a chaos or dark Mechanicum thing. I'm inclined to believe we'll see more of these different tracked guns and varieties of robots, in addition to the infantry we're still waiting on. The tracked guns and robots seem to dominate the existing artwork.
Your heresy has been exposed! Recant!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Any rules for the Thanatas Siege Walker?
Were there talks/presentations this year, and if so did we manage to sneak any Dakka Kommandos inside with cameras?
I'm interested to see if, given loads of people are now starting up brand new Mechanicum armies, they're going to stop stalling with the "we don't want to put out models of stuff people have already" excuse and give us some ruddy Skitarii infantry.
Was there any more info on the Nids stuff? I'm really curious what those mockups are, one of them looks like an MC-sized Lictor.
Did they mention anything about IA4?
Ahtman wrote: Am I the only one that thinks the Lancer looks like it should be a Cygnar jack in Warmachine?
Lancer concept and design has been around longer than Privateer as a company has. This isn't an a attack, just an observation; no one is screaming that anyone ripped anyone off. Things evolve and change over time and take inspiration from all sorts of places. This is normal, and it doesn't change that the new Lancer has more in common with Cygnar jacks visually then it does with the old Lancers in Epic.
So if anything some of the Cygnar designs looks like they should be part of Imperial Knight houses.
Yes I know, but that doesn't mean this current iteration isn't skewing closer aesthetically to Warmachine than the old Epic minis.
There was more to the post that didn't seem to survive. I'm not going to rewrite it again, but in essence it was that I wasn't saying that anyone ripped anyone else off, just that styles change over time with inspiration for things coming from all over. While there are older models for Lancers, this new one makes me think more of Warmachine than the older Epic minis.
Just noticed what looks like some new knight arm variants- a big flamer and a single chamber vulkan mega bolter by the looks of it- in the link H.B.M.C posted a couple of pages back.
Ahtman wrote: There was more to the post that didn't seem to survive. I'm not going to rewrite it again, but in essence it was that I wasn't saying that anyone ripped anyone else off, just that styles change over time with inspiration for things coming from all over. While there are older models for Lancers, this new one makes me think more of Warmachine than the older Epic minis.
Ahh, that makes a lot more sense then. You can understand why people are quick to point out the existence of these far before Privateer (and I have a huge Cygnar army) existed due to all of the ignorant "GW copied Privateer" uproar that happened when the Knight kit was first released.
Ahtman wrote: There was more to the post that didn't seem to survive. I'm not going to rewrite it again, but in essence it was that I wasn't saying that anyone ripped anyone else off, just that styles change over time with inspiration for things coming from all over. While there are older models for Lancers, this new one makes me think more of Warmachine than the older Epic minis.
Ahh, that makes a lot more sense then. You can understand why people are quick to point out the existence of these far before Privateer (and I have a huge Cygnar army) existed due to all of the ignorant "GW copied Privateer" uproar that happened when the Knight kit was first released.
I didn't see any of those earlier post, but I suppose it wouldn't surprise me. It is strange that the new knights never made me think of Privateer, but this Lancer does. Perhaps it is because I am more familiar with the ones in my pic.
whalemusic360 wrote: Whats up with the marine next to the Iron Giant? He might just be a conversion, but he's got some fancy Bolter going on.
Having zoomed in on the picture, it looks like a Tigrus pattern combi-melta, that has been converted by the barrel being replaced by a bit of plasticard tube to look like a suppressor. Looks like a pretty cool spec-ops gun.
Just been round my friends to pick up my collectors copy of Extermination that they got for me. Lovely set but the art book is a little disappointing.
Apparently FW are doing Tigrus pattern combi bolters. The large gun on the big Mechanicum walker is a Plasma Mortar that is large blast, ordinance and ignores cover. The walker is a little shorter than a Knight but a little wider.
Look like thralls with shotguns to me. I really like how FW seems to be making a big effort to get all the Mechanicum options (and Legion options in general) represented in models
Thanatos73 wrote: So any other info from book 3? I'm curious as to what special units the Iron Warriors got and info on the new Primarchs.
Tons of new info, too much for me to type up, the Mechanicum section has a ton of new stuff by itself. Iron Warriors have Tyrant Siege Terminators, Iron Havoc Support Squad, Erasmus Golg, Kyr Vhalen, Perturabo.
Thanatos73 wrote: So any other info from book 3? I'm curious as to what special units the Iron Warriors got and info on the new Primarchs.
Tons of new info, too much for me to type up, the Mechanicum section has a ton of new stuff by itself. Iron Warriors have Tyrant Siege Terminators, Iron Havoc Support Squad, Erasmus Golg, Kyr Vhalen, Perturabo.
Pick the most interesting bits to you, write up a little bit in Word or Notepad then come back with it.
You have a duty to please the Dakka! Don't fail us!
I think those legs might go with the Tyranid from the previous pic. However what on earth is that Organ Pipe looking Nid next to the legs! Either way those look great!
aka_mythos wrote: It happens any time GW makes a new army or revisits an army after a long time, what you had before will tend to look out of place.
I don't think we'll see Mechanicum get large walkers beyond knights. Aesthetically I think GW/FW see it as a chaos or dark Mechanicum thing. I'm inclined to believe we'll see more of these different tracked guns and varieties of robots, in addition to the infantry we're still waiting on. The tracked guns and robots seem to dominate the existing artwork.
Your heresy has been exposed!
My apologies if my message so bothered you. It wasn't meant to.
My opinion as written was proven wrong. I however was addressing your post about slapping a gun on the large multi-legged Ramshackle walker. I'd meant the post to convey the fact that I thought a multi-legged walker was aesthetically removed. My message was obviously missing that qualifier. Thus my apologize since it appears to have bothered you as a result of my quick and haphazard writing.
Zande4 wrote: I think those legs might go with the Tyranid from the previous pic. However what on earth is that Organ Pipe looking Nid next to the legs! Either way those look great!
That seems to be the torso, from how it looks.
And it looks like it fires meatrockets from its chest...?
Kanluwen wrote: Pick the most interesting bits to you, write up a little bit in Word or Notepad then come back with it.
You have a duty to please the Dakka! Don't fail us!
There be too much! Honestly, they have added masses of new units, not all have models yet even with the masses shown today.
Alphaus has a very cool rule, you write down which unit you have hid in him then can reveal him any turn up to turn 5 when he is auto revealed regardless. If that unit was destroyed he just gets stuck in reserve and comes on normally. He has a AP1 spear with armourbane as well. Alpha have Headhunter kill teams, Lernaen Terminator Squads, Exodus, Armillus Dynat & Alphaus.
Zande4 wrote: I think those legs might go with the Tyranid from the previous pic. However what on earth is that Organ Pipe looking Nid next to the legs! Either way those look great!
That seems to be the torso, from how it looks.
And it looks like it fires meatrockets from its chest...?
Aw man, the knowledge that some people has their HH3 books and I have to wait is seriously giving me the jitters, shakes and a severe case of frustration.
I need my Alpha Legion fix real bad, it's been too long already!
Zande4 wrote: I think those legs might go with the Tyranid from the previous pic. However what on earth is that Organ Pipe looking Nid next to the legs! Either way those look great!
To me it looks like there's an initial wireframe mockup with just the body and an arm sculpted, to establish the scale. Then the other bits are intentionally left disassembled because it's still a work in progress (look at the tail).
Aw man, the knowledge that some people has their HH3 books and I have to wait is seriously giving me the jitters, shakes and a severe case of frustration.
I need my Alpha Legion fix real bad, it's been too long already!
Know how you feel, I want to know stuff but I don't want to spoil reading through it.
For all those who wanted Kharn to look more like the art from the Collected Visions there'll be bunny eared helmets in the WE upgrade set.
whalemusic360 wrote: Whats up with the marine next to the Iron Giant? He might just be a conversion, but he's got some fancy Bolter going on.
Having zoomed in on the picture, it looks like a Tigrus pattern combi-melta, that has been converted by the barrel being replaced by a bit of plasticard tube to look like a suppressor. Looks like a pretty cool spec-ops gun.
Because a suppressor is going to work on rocket powered explosive rounds.
You do know that the primary function of a supressor has nothing to do with noise but to reduce muzzle-flash and thereby make detection harder in a ranged firefight?
whalemusic360 wrote: Whats up with the marine next to the Iron Giant? He might just be a conversion, but he's got some fancy Bolter going on.
Having zoomed in on the picture, it looks like a Tigrus pattern combi-melta, that has been converted by the barrel being replaced by a bit of plasticard tube to look like a suppressor. Looks like a pretty cool spec-ops gun.
Because a suppressor is going to work on rocket powered explosive rounds.
T
By itself? No. But there is also lower powered bolt rounds that essentially are solid rounds.
You do know that the primary function of a supressor has nothing to do with noise but to reduce muzzle-flash and thereby make detection harder in a ranged firefight?
Two kinds of suppressors: "flash" suppressors which reduce muzzle-flash and "silencers" which are primarily designed to reduce the sound signature of a firearm.
Some new info on all the new Primarchs (no Alpha, Alpharius does not come with the moustache or stapled baby):
Spoiler:
Perturabo
ws 8 bs 6 s 7 t 6 w 6 i 5 a 4 ld 10 sv 2+
wargear- The Logos Frag grenades
special rules- primarch ( as the others ) sire of the iron warriors relentless strategist precision bombardment very bulky
sire of the iron warriors - all iron warriors in the same army as perturabo gain the stubborn usr
relentless strategist - may start rolling for reserves on turn 1
precision bombardment - once per game may call down a bombardment ( may draw line of sight from himself or any friendly model with a nuncio - vox ) range - unlimited - str 9 ap 2 ord D3, barrage large blast ( 5") twin-linked
the logos - 2+ armour save, all cc attacks ap 2 , immunity to concussive and blind , teleport homer , cortex controller , nuncio -vox , cognis signum perturabo and all iron warrior terminators gain deep strike. wrist cannon range- 24" str 6 ap 3 assault 3 , twin linked , rending.
[ Forgebreaker - after ferrus manus's death , is granted the hammer by horus . + extra points to equip ] forgebreaker - range - str x2 ap 1 melee , concussive , strikedown , unwieldy , blind
dedicated transport - shadowsword super heavy tank in games of + 3000 points , with a single titan void shield , transport capacity of 15 with access point on rear - does not take up a lord of war choice
special rules primarch sire of the alpha legion one of many insidious mastermind bulky
wargear the pythian scales venom spheres master crafted plasma blaster the pale spear nuncio vox cognis signum camelioline
sire of the alpha legion preferred enemy ( everything ) ( lol ) counter attack , move through cover , scout , crusader ( only applies once revealed ) all alpha legion models in the same army gain preferred enemy 9 everything ) while revealed and on the table
one of many after both sides have deployed controlling player secretly notes which squad he's hiding in any alpha legion unit is eligible may be revealed at the start of any controlling players turn from turn 2 onwards immediately replaces a single rank and file model from the unit if he is a unit that is falling back , once revealed , it automatically rallies if chosen unit destroyed , placed in ongoing reserve auto revealed on turn 5
insidious mastermind if he is the armies warlord: may seize initiative on a 4+ units arriving via outflank add + d3 to movement on arrival from second turn onwards , should an enemy unit be successfully brought on from reserve , and the alpha legion also army contains an identical unit also held in reserve ,( eg tactical squad fro tactical squad ) on a 4+ the alpha legion squad shows up instead ( alpha legion units that arrive via this method may gain the movement bonus from this rule and be targeted by interceptor as normal )
the pythian scales 2+ / 4+ ignores poison and fleshbane
the pale spear range - str user ap 1 melee , armourbane , instant death , two handed
special rules primarch sire of the imperial fists sundering blow unshakeable defence bulky
wargear the auric armour storms teeth the voice of terra teleport homer frag grenades
sire of the imperial fists all imperial fist models may use his leadership rather than their own for leadership and pinning tests both down and any imperial fists add + D3 to their assault result result to determine who wins an assault while his model is in play
Phalanx breacher squads may be chosen as troops for an imperial fists army with dorn as it's warlord.
sundering blow may halve attacks to increase strength by + 2 and gain instant death
unshakeable defence may select upto 3 fortifications after deployment. any cover saves of 1 and pinning tests taken by models in these fortifications may be re-rolled
auric armour 2+ /4+ no attack may wound dorn on better than a 3+ regardless of it's strength or special rules ( this does not affect destroyer weapons )
storms teeth range - str user ap 2 melee , shred, rampage , unwieldy
the voice of terra range 24" str 5 ap 4 salvo 3/5 rending
dedicated transport in games of 3000+ only thunderhawk gunship with turbo laser , a single titan void shield , it will not die , and a 4+ invulnerable save against any missile attack - does not take up a lord of war choice)
special rules primarch sire of the raven guard the shadowed lord hit and run bulky
wargear the sable armour the panoply of the raven lord frag grenades shroud bombs the korvidine pinions two archeotech pistols
sire of the raven guard corax gains + 1 initiative and +1 strength on any turn in which he charges all models with the raven guard special rule in the same force , gain acute senses and their run roll is always counted as a six
the shadowed lord unless part of a unit , if corax is not the closest target or the firing unit is a psyker or daemon or another primarch , only snap shots may be taken against him. at the start of the controlling players turn , may be removed from play and placed into ongoing reserves- may even be withdrawn from close combat in this manner , but ONLY if his initiative is higher than his opponents
the sable armour 2+ / 5+ any enemy deep striking within 12" of corax will suffer a deep strike mishap on any roll of a double on their scatter roll. enemy teleport homers ( and similar devices ) do not function within this radius
the panoply of the raven lord range - str user ap 2 melee , shred , blind , two handed , fighting style
[ fighting style - at the beginning of each assault phase , may choose one of the following styles . death strike - all to wound rolls of 5+ wound the target regardless of toughness and any rolls to vehicles gain + 3 to armour penetration scourge - corax gains D3 extra attacks shadow walk - imposes a - 1 penalty to hit rolls of every enemy model which attacks him in an assault phase until the beginning of the controlling players next assault phase ]
the korvidine pinions gains jump infantry may always make hammer of wrath attacks when making assaults , regardless of other factors , such hammer of wrath attacks causing D3 hits at str 5 ap 3. when deploying via deep strike , scatter may be re-rolled if controlling player wishes should a mishap be rolled , then delayed result automatically applies when making a jump pack move , may make a vector strike attack
( rules also for damaged corax later in the campaign , loses jump pack , pistols down to 5 wounds and 5 attacks , armour is 3+ / 5+ carries salvaged heavy bolter which becomes assault 3. gains hatred of all enemy legions on istvaan V)
I love the fact that there's a wounded Corax option with the Heavy Bolter.
Copied from our Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/432522156834184/ Ok so Nid, beasties: My apologies but we had already left by time you asked the questions, they were fairly tight lipped but it seems these are for an upcoming IA book or something similar, the Dimarcehon (or whatever the hell it is called) seems to be a VERY large bipedal critter (only the legs were on display) possibly a supreme hive tyrant or something, other than that only the mock ups were shown which have a real horror look to them, lots of grasping tentacles and stuff) There are also some new biomorphy bits (a split claw arangement was one thing i noticed)
Lancer: Had a nice chat with Simon William the designer, who also sculpted the new mechanicum tanks (one of which Lee got) regarding the tanks he was very much going for something completely different and said main influences steampunk and WWI. The Lancer is designed to be posable and the shield goes on either arm, we had a good chat about the differences in resin and plastic and he said he had to work hard to get enough inner workings on it (basically they are required in plastic to hide joins and things) as working in resin is much more organic than plastic. The question about whether this would be used for future versions (though i didnt mention chaos specifically) was met with a knowing smile. He also confirmed my suspcion that the lance is desinged as if it retract and then punches through other engines.. He did say pilot models were unlikely as youll likely not see them and they will just drive cost up. Very cool and a dude who obviously loves his work
As was Simon Eagan, who revealed that he is planning THREE versions of horus, this one is horus just before the turn, he said he wanted a hidden level of malice in the model but for him not to appear evil., he also said he was in two minds about the hefty base as it drove the cost up but he felt that Horus deserved a pedestal. The second version will be a turned but not fully chaosified horus. the final version WILL be the duel with the EMPEROR. Yup you read that right. He also said he was working on another primarch right now but wouldnt say who, he said more would be revealed at the weekender. He said each primarch takes around 3 months to do but horus took longer.
Next i spoke to Steve who is working on the Gal Vorbak! His concept sketches are INCREDIBLE, they will be on 40mm bases. He hopes to have them done for the weekender abd said they are mostly there now,. Had an interesting chat with him regarding the scuplting process and he said he will basically make the model as best he can and then see if they come back and tell him if there is anything they cannot make. Sometimes they will tell him to thicken a part or move something about but not often. We spoke about the Chaos range and he said he loved the DV stuff but felt the main range was a backward step, certainly what he is heading for is more inline with the chosen from the DV box and he said that the models are closer to his concept work than he could have hoped which is a VERY good thing. We also had an interesting chat about space marine anatomy and the improbbility of fitting in their armour which he confessed can make them VERY challenging to sculpt in dynamic poses.
I also chatted to Rob Macfarlane about the cad process and desing work in general, not too much gleaned here but he confirmed he works with original GW source files to make sure everything fit and gets proofs back in 3D print form. In fact some of the figures in the cabinet WERE 3D prints. Not that you could tell. He said all peproduction mock ups and stuff are done in 3D print now so he can see if he needs to refine any designs. The printed part he showed me was exceptional.
We also have a large gallery of stuff, my favourite was the Firedrake Terminator!
Thank you for the extra pictures. Honestly most of the stuff in there we hadn't seen earlier (or can now see better) doesn't excite me all the much.
The Salamanders upgrade stuff is decidedly meh. I would have expected more moulded salamander heads than simply stapling Drake hide to everything.
Not a fan of the helmets in the Fists set.
The only combi-weapon I prefer to its GW equivalent is the flamer.
As cool as the Razorback turrets are (and they're awesome) they're just too late.
The Gorgons may be WIP, but they just look off in the same way that the Iron Hands upgrade did. Random exposed cables and spring looking things everywhere with no obvious practical purpose.
The Salamanders guy in Terminator armour looks great though, and the Thanatar looks better every time I see it. Thallax plasma fusil looks pretty cool, too.
Haighus wrote: Just noticed what looks like some new knight arm variants- a big flamer and a single chamber vulkan mega bolter by the looks of it- in the link H.B.M.C posted a couple of pages back.
No it is a dual set you can see the second ammo belt just behind the first one
I'll have to wait and see the final ones to tell if I agree with sock's comment, but I'm sold based on the helmets alone.
The variant Adsecularis are nice if a little on the chunky side, but they just reinforce my consternation at FW with the continuing absence of packs of human-, power armour-, and terminator-scale bionic bitz.
Having stared at the Siege-Automata for a while....I can't decide if it's good or rubbish. The plasma mortar is awesome, and it takes a lot of design cues from the Castellax which I love, but it almost seems too clean. I look at it and it doesn't yell "Mechanicum" to me. The new Kreos however is excellent, the shorter and chunkier weapon combined with the variant gunshield seem much more in-balance with the track units.
The bared heads in the new Legion upgrade packs look great, much less derpy than the first couple we saw.
Anyone find out when Extermination goes on general sale?
I like the Alpha's legion trait. Choosing an USR from a shortlist after rolls for warlord traits has been made for the entire army gives some nice flexibility.
The sniper character is pure awsome, (I mean, his rifle is named 'the Instrument') and so are the Lernaean terminators too. Poweraxes, volkite chargers, and 2 per 5 may take conversion beamers.
Having stared at the Siege-Automata for a while....I can't decide if it's good or rubbish. The plasma mortar is awesome, and it takes a lot of design cues from the Castellax which I love, but it almost seems too clean. I look at it and it doesn't yell "Mechanicum" to me. The new Kreos however is excellent, the shorter and chunkier weapon combined with the variant gunshield seem much more in-balance with the track units.
I rather prefer the cleaner look on the automata over the 1930's pulp guns on 1918 tanks. Ymmv.
Oh I know. The Macharius is a horrendously bad tank and acts as one of the many clear examples of why Super Heavies are stupidly overcosted, but I'm just hoping the new SM tank is actually worthwhile.
FW's rules always seem to be a but more fluff-centric, and considering everything they make are supposed to be super-rare stuff, everything is expensive.
Co'tor Shas wrote: FW's rules always seem to be a but more fluff-centric, and considering everything they make are supposed to be super-rare stuff, everything is expensive.
There's no reason why "fluff" and "power" cannot be congruous. In fact, the more fluffy something is the more powerful it should be.
Co'tor Shas wrote: No, it's just that they will be really expensive because they are supposed to be super-rare. No offense meant, but could you re-read my post?
I believe his point was that, in the fluff, that super-rare stuff is supposed to be planet-wrecking, army-smashing, god-slaying powerful, not marginally more powerful than a stock unit for + 50% of the cost. If anything, one of the core problems in 40k is that what is fluffy, in what is supposed to be a game about "Forging the Narrative," is often quite weak compared to balance outliers, questionably designed pieces of wargears/units and so on.
When's the last time you've seen 5 Tactical Squads lead by a Captain, backed by a single dreadnought do anything other than die horribly, for instance.
IF
-must challenge,rerolls to hit in challenge
-+1BS with bolt-type weapons.TkH on heavy weapon squads
-stubborn while inside fortifications/barricades/covers
-enemy may force to ignore the variable lenght rule and play 6 full turns
Can't have more FA/Elite than troops
Dorn is the cheaper primarch in the book.Makes for a good melee fighter,can halve his attacks to add 2 str & ID to them.He can buff 3 fortifications per game
-Sire of the Imperial fists:Every IF on the field can use his LD for leadership and pinning tests.He and every IF unit gain +d3 to see who wins a combat while he's in play
-Can have a special Thunderhawk as dedicated transport (no LoW slot used)
Sigismund and Polux were plain to see in the preview
Special equipment
-Solarite power first (only characters,replace TH,standard PF with better AP & Mc.)
-Vigilus pattern stormshield (works as 40k storm shield,terminators/terminator characters)
-Prototype pattern AC (shared with the BA,works as 40kAC but on triple 1 can't be fired for the rest of the game,can be taken instead of flamers by terminator squads)
-Teleporttation transponder (unit with it can DS,terminators/terminator command squads)
Templar brethren- WS 5,2A,artificer armour,power swords and furious charge for entire unit.The chapter champion has 2W
Phalanx warder squad- unique breacher squad , may be upto 20 man strong - every man may take a power axe.+1I if charged as long as 5+ warder alive.Every friendly model that joins the unit gains the bonus
IW -all grenades have wrecker
-rerolls pinning and ignore morale tests from shooting
-they seem to have a rule that encourages firing bolters before charging (can't find what it does atm)
-same as the fist,they might be forced to play 6 turn games
Warsmiths are an upgrade for one praetor per army.Can nerf enemy terrains like 40k warpsmiths.can't be given some equipment but gains another special rule
Golg (tertminator praetor) makes terminator troops
Valhen (warsmith) is a good defensive character and a loyalist
Perturabo makes for a good fighter with Forgebreaker (that must be paid as an upgrade,he punches people with his fists without it).Can call down an orbital bombardment per game and start to roll reserves sooner than normal
-Sire of the Iron warriors:makes every IW stubborn if he's on the field.
-Can have a special Shadowsword as dedicated transport (no LoW slot used)
Special equipment
-Shrapnel bolts (reduces ap,gives pinning,only heavy bolter-type weapons)
-Cortex Controller (only warsmiths/techmarines)
Tyrant siege terminators - terminator squad ALL equipped with cyclone launchers with wrecker usr Iron havoc squad - heavy support unit with tank hunters and deadly aim ( reduces enemy cover save by 1 ),start with shrapnel bolt heavy bolters and can upgrade to ml/autocannons/lascannon
RG -infantry has infiltrate and fleet
-everything else (non veichle/walker) has furious charge
-can't have more tanks than infantry units
Corax has good stats.One rule gives him multiple attack patterns.Enemies can fire at him only as snapshot (unless demons/psychers and some other things like that) and he might ALWAYS be removed from the table and placed back in reserve (even if he's in melee,unless the enemy has higher I than he does)
-Sire of the raven guard:All the RG units consider run dice as 6" and have acute sense while he's on the field.He has +1I +1S every turn he charges
-he has a second version of the rules to represent his weakened form during the hunt/escape from Istvaan (lesser stats/lost-replaced-damaged equipment)
Strike captain Mauln is a unique consul,he allows reroll of reserve for drop pods/flyers
Special equipment
-Raven talons (any model with LC,upgrades them to Mc.+rending)
-Camelioline (same as always,only on foot PA characters)
-Infravisor (gain night vision,tests blind on I1,only characters)
Darkwing pattern storm eagle - reduced transport capacity,stealth,outflank
Dark fury assault team:Jump infantry with bonus I on charge and special cover save the turn they deep strike
AL -must choose one of the following for everyone when picking warlords traits - scout, infiltrate, tank hunters, counter-attack, move through cover, adamntium will
-if you suffer more units destroyed than your opponent you concede an additional victory point
They have a special consul type,the saboteur.He must start in reserve and has a special attack when he enters the field,doesnt count for the number of minimum hq choices/number of unit in reserve and canìt join units.As the warsmith,can't be given some equipment and has some extras of his own
There is a rule that allows them to take units that are not from the AL list
Alpharius has taken some lessons from dark elves assassins (he can hide inside units and pop-out when he wants to).He steals initiative on 4+ and outflanking units have bonus movement when entering the field.Also,if the enemy has a unit in reserve of the same type of an AL unit in reserve,when the enemy brings that unit in play,on 4+ the AL unit enters the game instead.
-Sire of the Alpha legion.Once he reveals,all AL model have prefferred enemy (everything).He has PE(e.),counter attack , move through cover , scout , crusader once revealed
Exodus is a really good sniper
Dynat is a special praetor
Special equipment:
-venom spheres (taken by praetor/apoth/tech with frag granades,gives HoW)
-venom spheres harness
-banestrike shells (same as BL)
-power daggers (same as power swords but lowers strenght and gives rending)
Headhunter kill team - seeker squad , all armed with banestrike shells and power daggers
Lernaean terminator squad - cataphractii squad with power axes and volkite chargers,two may take conversion beamers
Each primarch has obviosly more rules than those,mostly from weapon/armors
Source:various ones i've underlined the 3 parts that seem to be reported by one source only (probably they are rites of war,but i've found nothing on those so far to confirm it)
Damned shame that after the Heresy the Legions completely forgot how to do any of that stuff.
Why do all those characterful things when you can just send your cultists and Daemon Princes and Heldrakes out of the Eye to take care of business. Chaos Space Marines: the reigning 10,000 year needlepoint champions.
Seriously? You're griping about equipment? Two entire legions were wiped out and removed from the records. Why would the Chaos Legions even bother to keep their mouth shut about that when they could use it to further weaken the Emperor's credibility? I mean almost all of the Chaos Primarchs are still around in one form or another so it's not like they wouldn't have ever met their missing two brothers.
Cut him some slack... the chaos thread has died down so all the players whining there need someplace new to whine. Much like Dark Eldar, they feed on it and it isn't fulfilling if no one reads the thread.
Damned shame that after the Heresy the Legions completely forgot how to do any of that stuff.
You know the Laws of Chaos.
Rule #1) Drop all equipment and visit the Amnesia Demon before entering the Eye.
Rule #2) There's only Rule #1.
Devils advocate... Just like the Imperium, chaos marines also lost the ability to get certain technologies. As far as lost skills go the most feasible answer is that many of these skills couldn't be maintained to such an elite status with generally smaller army sizes. If only 1:1000 guys is good enough to be an elite siege works marine after the heresy those skills either atrophy or in some instances become the emphasis of chapters which drill them harder than others.
Robotech is a brand new suck though that is constantly evolving like a Pokemon into something worse. Chaos have to my recollection over the past almost 20 years and 5 dedicated codex books only had legion rules once for around 3-4 years... and it was the most broken codex of its time partly due to the legion rules (IW.. I'm looking at you!). There are acceptable alternatives to use in the meantime.
If you have a "legion" style army that is in 40k still holding true to its original legion organization and traditions, you can use the FW legion rules.
If you have a mixed army that split amongst the traditionalists whereas other squads have embraced new sources of power, you use the ally rules for the minority faction and the primary detachment is the majority.
If the legion has largely broken up and fully embraced the warp, you use the Chaos codex.
I agree it would be hunky dory if GW came out with a single codex with legion rules for 40k but they simply won't do that... period. At best, they'll trickle out one at a time with 4 pages of rules for $50 like the Black Legion and the Crimson whatever counts as Word Bearers.
Breotan wrote: Seriously? You're griping about equipment?
Who's griping about equipment?
aka_mythos wrote: Devils advocate... Just like the Imperium, chaos marines also lost the ability to get certain technologies. As far as lost skills go the most feasible answer is that many of these skills couldn't be maintained to such an elite status with generally smaller army sizes. If only 1:1000 guys is good enough to be an elite siege works marine after the heresy those skills either atrophy or in some instances become the emphasis of chapters which drill them harder than others.
Hey, next time around let's roll the Dark Angels and the Blood Angels into the regular Marine Codex. I mean, they're both Codex Chapters (with slight differences here and there), so they could easily be made part of the main Marine Codex.
Hey, next time around let's roll the Dark Angels and the Blood Angels into the regular Marine Codex. I mean, they're both Codex Chapters (with slight differences here and there), so they could easily be made part of the main Marine Codex.
If they existed in their 3rd edition state like the last time Chaos had legion rules in a proper 40k codex, I'd have been fine with that. In the intervening almost 10 years, they've been bloated with new unique units and that isn't a viable choice without invalidating models something that isn't true of chaos marines.
I agree it would be hunky dory if GW came out with a single codex with legion rules for 40k but they simply won't do that... period..
Why not? They did it for Codex: Space Marines. Actually, after C:SM sold so well (I think?), I fully expect the next C:CSM to have legion rules. Right now I think the only reason 6th Ed C:CSM doesn't is because it had the misfortune of coming out before C:SM.
warboss wrote: If they existed in their 3rd edition state like the last time Chaos had legion rules in a proper 40k codex, I'd have been fine with that. In the intervening almost 10 years, they've been bloated with new unique units and that isn't a viable choice without invalidating models something that isn't true of chaos marines.
Nah! Just roll 'em in, just like the Black Templars. No need for a whole book. Death Company and Raven Guard Bikers as their unique units, and let them take Jump Packs on Command Squads (for BA's) and Terminator Armour on Command Squads (for DA's). A few special rules and there, done. No need for whole books.
I wonder if the new Nid is a model for having the Ymgarl factor. All the different parts look like it's some king of fused mess or it's morphing or something.
Hey, next time around let's roll the Dark Angels and the Blood Angels into the regular Marine Codex. I mean, they're both Codex Chapters (with slight differences here and there), so they could easily be made part of the main Marine Codex.
If they existed in their 3rd edition state like the last time Chaos had legion rules in a proper 40k codex, I'd have been fine with that. In the intervening almost 10 years, they've been bloated with new unique units and that isn't a viable choice without invalidating models something that isn't true of chaos marines.
It's only not true of Chaos Marines because they've already done it. Or did you forget the extensive array of Chaos Daemons that got excised along with the legion rules?
warboss wrote: If they existed in their 3rd edition state like the last time Chaos had legion rules in a proper 40k codex, I'd have been fine with that. In the intervening almost 10 years, they've been bloated with new unique units and that isn't a viable choice without invalidating models something that isn't true of chaos marines.
Nah! Just roll 'em in, just like the Black Templars. No need for a whole book. Death Company and Raven Guard Bikers as their unique units, and let them take Jump Packs on Command Squads (for BA's) and Terminator Armour on Command Squads (for DA's). A few special rules and there, done. No need for whole books.
Except we have jetbike commanders, weaponized religion launcher megaspeeders, dopey fighters, extra special bikers, extra special terminators, extra special assault marines with weird wrist weapons, extra special who knows how to classify death company, etc.. It isn't like with Black Templars where they had a single weird servitor HQ boxed set and just a pack of bits sold separately. It certainly isn't impossible now but would take alot more pruning that with Templars just last year or Chaos had almost 10 years ago. It would have been relatively painless back in late 3rd edition though especially with the trait system they had for a short time in the marine codex.
warboss wrote: If they existed in their 3rd edition state like the last time Chaos had legion rules in a proper 40k codex, I'd have been fine with that. In the intervening almost 10 years, they've been bloated with new unique units and that isn't a viable choice without invalidating models something that isn't true of chaos marines.
Nah! Just roll 'em in, just like the Black Templars. No need for a whole book. Death Company and Raven Guard Bikers as their unique units, and let them take Jump Packs on Command Squads (for BA's) and Terminator Armour on Command Squads (for DA's). A few special rules and there, done. No need for whole books.
Except we have jetbike commanders, weaponized religion launcher megaspeeders, dopey fighters, extra special bikers, extra special terminators, extra special assault marines with weird wrist weapons, extra special who knows how to classify death company, etc.. It isn't like with Black Templars where they had a single weird servitor HQ boxed set and just a pack of bits sold separately. It certainly isn't impossible now but would take alot more pruning that with Templars just last year or Chaos had almost 10 years ago. It would have been relatively painless back in late 3rd edition though especially with the trait system they had for a short time in the marine codex.
And part of the reason Templars only had a few extra bits is because their specific upgrades had already been stolen by the other chapters. Do the same with Dark Angels and roll all their variant speeders out to everyone.
And give TL-Assault Cannon turrets to regular Predators. Let all Command Squads take double-handed "Honour Blade" power weapons. Let Bike Command Squads get Plasma Gun mountings.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And give TL-Assault Cannon turrets to regular Predators. Let all Command Squads take double-handed "Honour Blade" power weapons. Let Bike Command Squads get Plasma Gun mountings.
It's not hard. One Codex to rule 'em all!
Codex "Base Marines", with Supplement "Rope Marines" and Dataslate "I Like Terminators"
I've read through the AdMech section of this book. There are Mechanicum Cybernetica with Lightning Claws and chest mounted plasma thingies. The giant Thanatas siege automata has an S8 AP2 Large Blast mortar that forces successful cover saves to be re-rolled. The Thallax guys can get Goto-Pattern Multi-Lasers. There's a transport in there that holds twenty guys. There's even more things in there that don't yet have models. It's a mad mad time to be a big AdMech fan.
Chrysis wrote: Exactly. The argument "They can't do that! They'd have to do <thing they have a history of doing>!" isn't especially compelling.
And neither is the "Chaos shouldn't have special rules, but don't you dare touch my special snowflake Marines and all their special rules/unique units!!!". Forge World prove how easy it is to take a single list (Legiones Astartes) and add flavour with some special rules and 2-3 unique units. Games Workshop proved how you can take a single list (Space Marines) and add flavour with a few special rules/quirks to make multiple different armies.
warboss wrote: Except we have jetbike commanders, weaponized religion launcher megaspeeders, dopey fighters, extra special bikers, extra special terminators, extra special assault marines with weird wrist weapons, extra special who knows how to classify death company, etc..
Of course most of that stuff only exists to justify having a separate $50 codex to buy, not because it is necessary for fluff reasons. Remove it entirely and nothing important would be lost.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Nah! Just roll 'em in, just like the Black Templars. No need for a whole book. Death Company and Raven Guard Bikers as their unique units, and let them take Jump Packs on Command Squads (for BA's) and Terminator Armour on Command Squads (for DA's). A few special rules and there, done. No need for whole books.
Lol why do people always get this wrong :( Someday they won't confuse a chapter with a company name hahaha.
warboss wrote: Except we have jetbike commanders, weaponized religion launcher megaspeeders, dopey fighters, extra special bikers, extra special terminators, extra special assault marines with weird wrist weapons, extra special who knows how to classify death company, etc..
Of course most of that stuff only exists to justify having a separate $50 codex to buy, not because it is necessary for fluff reasons. Remove it entirely and nothing important would be lost.
Except... you know... models people paid for and put work into. I agree with the theory since I referred to them as "bloat" earlier but the actual application of just rolling them into the C:SM book is much more complicated than it was with templars this time or chaos back in the day.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Thallax guys can get Goto-Pattern Multi-Lasers
But can they do back-flips?
I'm seriously looking forward to when FW finally get around to doing the Thousand Sons. I'm not holding my breath that the rules will be any good, after all we are still talking about GW here. But at least the models will be dead sexy.
warboss wrote: Except we have jetbike commanders, weaponized religion launcher megaspeeders, dopey fighters, extra special bikers, extra special terminators, extra special assault marines with weird wrist weapons, extra special who knows how to classify death company, etc..
Of course most of that stuff only exists to justify having a separate $50 codex to buy, not because it is necessary for fluff reasons. Remove it entirely and nothing important would be lost.
Except... you know... models people paid for and put work into. I agree with the theory since I referred to them as "bloat" earlier but the actual application of just rolling them into the C:SM book is much more complicated than it was with templars this time or chaos back in the day.
Hasn't stopped them before, won't stop them if they decide to do it again. Or did you forget all the Space Wolves players and their Leman Russ tanks, the Iron Warriors players with their Basilisks, the Necron players and their Pariahs, etc, etc?
If GW wanted to roll all the loyalist marines into one codex they absolutely could, and nothing would stop them. They won't, because loyalist marines are their baby, but they could.
Not digging the lancer knight maybe it looks more interesting with the alternative weapons, looking at the legs they make me think of eldar walker/titans. is it taller than a normal knight?
I'm really surprised Corax only has WS7. Given the way he was described in close combat I thought he would be WS8, on par with Kurze and Horus. Also given that Dorn and Perturabo are also WS8, and they're not specifically known for their CC prowess, I thought Corax would definitely be on the same level or higher. I guess he makes up for this with his fighting styles, but still.
Alpharius' rules are awesome though. Wonder if they'll even bother getting around to Omegon, if there's even a real difference.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The giant Thanatas siege automata has an S8 AP2 Large Blast mortar that forces successful cover saves to be re-rolled.
Well that sounds odd. Would have been easier just to give it Ignores Cover. What's the story behind re-rolling the save, time-delayed explosion or something?
So happy to hear about the new Iron Warrioir rules. Wreaker on all my gernades is halioures, even if fortifications aren't exactly the most common units people take... XD
Sidstyler wrote: Well that sounds odd. Would have been easier just to give it Ignores Cover. What's the story behind re-rolling the save, time-delayed explosion or something?
"Rolling waves of plasma energy". But yeah, it's the worst kind of special rule, the one that does something almost like another special rule but is different for difference's sake.
Kinda sad that it took Forge World to make one poseable, though. Sadder still that it'll be even more expensive because of that. Looks okay, though, but I'm not sure how big I fan I am of the hollow kite shield...
Honestly I think it would have looked better with something round, like a buckler, that projected an energy field not unlike how people imagine Tau shield generators work. I dunno, that's just me.
Seeing all these primarch rules coming out...is anyone else thinking how badass dark Angels, wolves and the thousand sons are going to be...then think of there respective primarchs!!
Formosa wrote: Seeing all these primarch rules coming out...is anyone else thinking how badass dark Angels, wolves and the thousand sons are going to be...then think of there respective primarchs!!
The Lancer is staying basically true to the previous design.
Enough of the "old" there to appeal to old school guys like myself, yet it is an updated look that mirrors elements of the GW Knights so not to appear from the late 80's early 90's. That shield looks workable to me.
Generally Forgeworld has done a nice job .. producing updated kits for older designs.
Hopefully get to see some this stuff first hand at AdeptICon!
H.B.M.C. wrote: The giant Thanatas siege automata has an S8 AP2 Large Blast mortar that forces successful cover saves to be re-rolled.
Well that sounds odd. Would have been easier just to give it Ignores Cover. What's the story behind re-rolling the save, time-delayed explosion or something?
It's a giant plasma mortar battery like in Halo. It covers the entire area with superheated gas.
There isn't any such rule as ignores cover in 30k as they prefer the far better mechanic of modifying saves -1 or forcing rerolls. Is removing entire units with no save ever fun? It takes out all the interaction and was the chief complaint of Tau.
Sidstyler wrote: Well that sounds odd. Would have been easier just to give it Ignores Cover. What's the story behind re-rolling the save, time-delayed explosion or something?
"Rolling waves of plasma energy". But yeah, it's the worst kind of special rule, the one that does something almost like another special rule but is different for difference's sake.
Maybe they thought Ignores cover is too good? That's been one of the biggest complaints about Tau and Eldar, is all the Ignores cover weapons. I think re-rolling successful cover saves is a very nice compromise.
Sidstyler wrote: Well that sounds odd. Would have been easier just to give it Ignores Cover. What's the story behind re-rolling the save, time-delayed explosion or something?
"Rolling waves of plasma energy". But yeah, it's the worst kind of special rule, the one that does something almost like another special rule but is different for difference's sake.
Maybe they thought Ignores cover is too good? That's been one of the biggest complaints about Tau and Eldar, is all the Ignores cover weapons. I think re-rolling successful cover saves is a very nice compromise.
I agree, an ignores cover strength 8 ap 2 large blast seems massively overkill where as re-roll cover seems far more balanced even though its situational
I also think the reroll cover saves rule is more balanced than simply ignoring them outright.
I can't wait to get my copy of Extermination, but I just know that the Battle of Phall section will just make angry at GW again for dropping Battlefleet Gothic. Heresy era BFG would be so AWESOME!
@Alph and Kan: I might not have been clear. I don't have an issue with a helmet but rather that specific helmet in the sketch. It makes Ultramarine honor guard and Night Lord headgear seem positively lacking in extraneous detail.
Does Alpharius have Transformers-pattern armour that looks like generic Astartes plate then changes at the touch of a button/mind impulse to something more......obvious?
Sasori wrote: We just need some Dark Mechanicus rules now...
I think I remember reading that "the plan" is to drip-feed basic Mechanicum forces into each book, then to release recognisably "evil" Mechanicum stuff when the battle for Mars gets its day. Which makes sense really, since until they open the Vaults of Moravec most of their dodgy inventions were either super-tip-top-secret like Kaban(ermahgerd FW better do a model for the Kaban Machine), or outwardly indistinguishable from regular Mechanicum tech in order to avoid arousing suspicion. It also means the bulk of both armies that will feature in the book will already have models.
Sadly, I think the closest we can expect the Mars events to get coverage is the last book of the second trilogy, but more likely the first or second book of the final trilogy, so it's years away
obviously its for Horus Hersey Salamanders. Didn't know Vulkan kept pets did you 
move 
I've got to say, I love 'em. I'm not overly fond of the greave and belt Drake-skins, but it's a minor gripe for an awesome set 
Dem Gorgons 
