Snrub wrote: You guys are daft. Alphs helmet is sweet as.
I assume the complaint is because his background is generally focused around being able to appear as any of his men, and that any of his legion are interchangeable parts in a machine.
Sasori wrote: We just need some Dark Mechanicus rules now...
I think I remember reading that "the plan" is to drip-feed basic Mechanicum forces into each book, then to release recognisably "evil" Mechanicum stuff when the battle for Mars gets its day. Which makes sense really, since until they open the Vaults of Moravec most of their dodgy inventions were either super-tip-top-secret like Kaban(ermahgerd FW better do a model for the Kaban Machine), or outwardly indistinguishable from regular Mechanicum tech in order to avoid arousing suspicion. It also means the bulk of both armies that will feature in the book will already have models.
Sadly, I think the closest we can expect the Mars events to get coverage is the last book of the second trilogy, but more likely the first or second book of the final trilogy, so it's years away
Snrub wrote: You guys are daft. Alphs helmet is sweet as.
I assume the complaint is because his background is generally focused around being able to appear as any of his men, and that any of his legion are interchangeable parts in a machine.
Well, from what I remember in "Legion" it's more that he is able to appear as any of his captains/basic troopers to the casual observer in universe. In game terms and to an omniscient observer there should be some kind of distinguishing features once he's been 'revealed'.
In my own personal opinion, I feel that the model of Alpharius should be visually distinctive. I like that helm design(I don't like the idea of transporting it though...lots of fiddly tiny bits that can fall off), especially since it seems that the hydra heads are going to be a 'feature' on all of the captains as well if the art is anything to go by.
It says Alpharius is supposed to be imposing and majestic after he reveals himself. Presumably that's when he switches helmets from an inconspicuous one to that crazy hydra helm, I guess.
I always understood that Alpharius blending in with the other Marines was more an illusory trick rather than him appearing as 'just another marine'. Much in the same way that the Emperor appears to be just a man when he first visits each Primarch and then reveals himself to be a luminous/messianic like figure instead
chaos0xomega wrote: I always understood that Alpharius blending in with the other Marines was more an illusory trick rather than him appearing as 'just another marine'. Much in the same way that the Emperor appears to be just a man when he first visits each Primarch and then reveals himself to be a luminous/messianic like figure instead
This is a distinct possibility, it's logically consistent (as all the Primarchs are supposedly expressions of elements of the Emperor's abilities) and dovetails nicely with how Corax's "invisibility" is rumoured to work too.
First0f0ne wrote:Also I'm a little disappointed Perturabo's robots have not been seen.
warboss wrote:Any word on whether Perturbo gets the option to use the Mechanicum robots as a bodyguard like in the novels?
On the equipment listed for him a few pages back, he comes with a cortex controller, so he can control a unit of robots taken in the normal way as outlined in Book 2 (one cohort per legion list I believe). As Perturabo is also an independent character, I think he would be able to join the cohort because the unit can contain more than one model. Therefore he can have the bodyguard.
Just checked- robot battle-maniples may be taken as an elites choice for the Legion list so long as at least 1 HQ in the force is equipped with a cortex controller.
sonofruss wrote:
Malika2 wrote: Hmm, makes me wonder: I really hope FW will model helmets for the Primarchs! Imagine what kinda helmets these guys would wear...
We have already seen Lemans helmet Ulric wears it.
And the Lion helm carried by Azrael's pet watcher in the dark for El'Jonson
chaos0xomega wrote: I always understood that Alpharius blending in with the other Marines was more an illusory trick rather than him appearing as 'just another marine'. Much in the same way that the Emperor appears to be just a man when he first visits each Primarch and then reveals himself to be a luminous/messianic like figure instead
This is a distinct possibility, it's logically consistent (as all the Primarchs are supposedly expressions of elements of the Emperor's abilities) and dovetails nicely with how Corax's "invisibility" is rumoured to work too.
It is also the way the rules work, as described by someone earlier in the thread.
You replace a normal model with his within a unit when you reveal him. It therefore doesn't matter if his actual model is ostentatious, if anything it makes the rules make more sense.
On the equipment listed for him a few pages back, he comes with a cortex controller, so he can control a unit of robots taken in the normal way as outlined in Book 2 (one cohort per legion list I believe). As Perturabo is also an independent character, I think he would be able to join the cohort because the unit can contain more than one model. Therefore he can have the bodyguard.
Ah.. thanks, I missed the cortex controller. Are the robots different than the legio cybernetica Castellax ones? The bodyguard in the novels were Colossus robots but that obviously could easily be changed and using castellax ones is an acceptable alternative as well.
On the equipment listed for him a few pages back, he comes with a cortex controller, so he can control a unit of robots taken in the normal way as outlined in Book 2 (one cohort per legion list I believe). As Perturabo is also an independent character, I think he would be able to join the cohort because the unit can contain more than one model. Therefore he can have the bodyguard.
Ah.. thanks, I missed the cortex controller. Are the robots different than the legio cybernetica Castellax ones? The bodyguard in the novels were Colossus robots but that obviously could easily be changed and using castellax ones is an acceptable alternative as well.
The rules in book 2 just say any single robot maniple. As of the printing of book 2 that just meant Castellax (because they were the only existing robot rules at the time), but there may be new robot cohort options in book 3 and later books that you could also use.
Alpharius remember, (well ghee, this is going to get confusing fast ) that the first generations of the XX Legion where a lot larger than their younger bretheren and by the time of the Heresy those that survive have risen to the higher ranks of the Legions echelons like Captains, Laernan & Effrit specialists and routinely pose as the Primarch when needed.
However, also remember that Alpharius -do- have a suit of silly ornate armor that he, Omegon or a suitable Legionary on occation wears when it's suitable. He does not always wear the plain Mk4 of a line trooper, just.. often.
I kind of like the helmet, a bit over the top but then the suit was described to be quite over the top.
Exodus is however a dream come true for me, just the kind of character I want for my army.
In one of the HH stories, doesnt he hunt down a merchant or tech magus who is an operative? He uses some sort of technological device as a disguise which he and others attach the to he guys servitors to freak him out and capture him... It was a story where Alpharius' legionnaries are sent on a mission to destroy one of their own bases which is populated with psykers, I am sure of it.. in 1 of the anthologies... He could use that at any time to move unseen I guess.
Fayric wrote: If superman can pull of the Kent/Superman deal with just a pair of glasses I think Alpharius could do it with a simple switch of helmets.
Honestly.
And that is based the Superman/Kent pair of glasses disguise not being considered ridiculous by most people and a commonly made fun of cheesey excuse? I don't think that is a good assumption to make.
A group of mundane identical XX Legion marines walks up to human commander of a world they're bringing into compliance... suddenly one puts on his extra special hat that grants superpowers and *shazam* he's a primarch!
I prefer to think of it like something from 'The Thing',
One of the marines starts screaming and rips himself in half armour and all and out steps Alpharius, taller, more awesome and in fancier armour, casually kicking the discarded husk away.
A group of mundane identical XX Legion marines walks up to human commander of a world they're bringing into compliance... suddenly one puts on his extra special hat that grants superpowers and *shazam* he's a primarch!
-1st Battalions were created from across Terra, even in domains where other legions
had ‘Rights of Tithe’
-Recruits were selected from those with the greatest endurance, mentally and physically
-Many were taciturn, slow to talk but quick to act
-Used a wide pool because the VII legion geneseed implantation was painful than other legions
-Described as grim
-Focused on conquest of new systems
-Described as seeing the whole vision of the Imperium, conquering and then holding what was conquered (unlike most other legions)
-Though they excelled at building and garrisoning, their real calling was Crusading
-They would leave well ordered compliant cities in their wake, but were always on the move (massive recruiting efforts sustained them)
-Massed shock assaults were the VII Legions preferred tactics, often with multiple battalions taking to the field.
-Everytime the broke a noncompliant world, they left behind something stronger
-Emperor personally gave them the name the Imperial Fists after their earliest lands they conquered ‘looked as if the Emperor had grasped them in his Fist’
Inwit
-When the Legion reunited with Dorn, there was no culture shift, it just reinforced traits already present because of Dorn’s upbringing on Inwit
-Orbits a red star
-Tidally locked
-Surrounded by a vast network of shipyards and space fortresses, master ship builders
-The people are the worlds only resource, their martial nature led to them conquering a massive tract of space before the coming of the Emperor
-Mixture of Space Prussian Ice Hives and nomadic Eskimos
-Every world was conquered, assimilated, and reinforced but the masters of the world kept their people living in the old ways so they wouldn’t give up their strengths through opulence
-Rogal grew up apart of House Dorn of the Ice Caste, and became Emperor of the Inwit Cluster
-Dorn grew the empire more than any other Emperor, reorganized and trained its armies, and engineered advanced space craft
-When Dorn and the Emperor reunited, the Emperor welcomed a massive and strong empire into his Imperium forged into a tool of war.
Primarch and Legion Reunite
-The Imperial Fists were the Crusaders of the Imperial Truth
-Dorn was calculating, but once committed to an action saw it through to the end
-His rare bursts of emotion were were ‘capable of shaking the ground and darkening
the sun’
-Dorn had a incident with Kurze and a brief falling out with Ferrus Manus because
of his unseen brooding that others couldn’t pick up on
-The integration of the Primarch and Legion was faster than others: When he first
met them, he said nothing until he saw them in battle and told them they had
much to do, and more to learn.
-He gave honor of the rank of High Castellan of the Inwit Cluster to the Legion Master,
tasked him with raising 30 regiments of legionaries, and immediately set
out on the Crusade
-They didn’t draw any riches from conquered worlds like other legions, just recruits.
They recruited as many as the Ultramarine and Word Bearers, but the
trials of initiation were so hard and the geneseed implantation so mentally
and physically painful it killed many.
-New companies were sometimes completely comprised of recruits from cultures
that would get diluted over time
Favored Sons
-As the great crusade continued the Imperial Fists were highly honored and favored
by the Emperor
-When other legions were unable to continue forward, the Emperor would use
the Imperial Fists to regain the initiative, when the frontlines swung back against
the Imperials, the Fists would lead the counter thrust, stalemates and deadlocked
sieges were similarly broken by the Fists.
-They won more personal honors from the Emperor than any other legion
-Their favored treatment, mixed with Dorn’s personality caused some Primarchs
(mostly the traitor Primarchs, to regard him as hubristic and arrogant)
to dislike him, and again his stubbornness wouldn’t allow him to mend
bridges (his biggest flaw IMO).
-The Emperor would task Dorn with ensuring post-conquest compliances were
achieved according to his exact vision
-To many worlds, they considered the Imperial Fists the rock on which the foundations
of the Imperium were built
-Dorn’s mannerisms drew admiration from many as often as it drew their ire (the
Stannis Baratheon of Primarchs)
-Even though Dorn was so highly favored, the Emperor passed right over him for
Warmaster, primarily because of his Draconian and stubborn personality. When
in command, Dorn’s personality would cause friction, unlike Horus who
could get a team together.
-The Emperor instead honored Dorn by making him Praetorian, and it is implicated
that because Horus was given control of compliance and Dorn went
home with the Emperor, that ‘the fate of the Emperor and all his Sons was
set’
Unit Organization and Structure
-Retained Belicosa pattern
-Schism in predominant units: Assault units backed by special weapon units and
heavy support squads. Favorite heavy weapons: Missile Launchers and Lascannons.
-Heavy proponents of Terminator Armor, with large numbers of all 3 patterns.
Get early assault cannons and super storm shields
-Regiment/Crusade/Household to Battaltion to Company to Squad organization
flow
-Templars: Named as the Guardians of the secular Temple of Oaths aboard the
Phalanx. Only Templars can enter as they please
-The Templars were the nominal 1st Company and their commander was always
2nd in command of the Legion
-There was no fixed ‘inner circle’ like the Mournival or 10 Lord Commanders of
the III Legion
-Technically there was nothing between the Dorn and his Captains, but a level
of subdivided command (fleet and siege masters, theatre commanders, and
Marshals)
-Fleet Masters were in charge of the fleet in a campaign, siege masters were in
ultimate command in sieges. These titles were appointed and technically answerable
only to the Primarch himself
-The 1st Captain was the only person outside the Primarch who had unconditional
authority over the legion.
-Castellans and Seneschals commanded fortresses, but retained the title after returning
to the Crusade efforts
War Disposition
-Bulk of IF’s were returning to Terra
-The Fists were never a huge legion, its attrition rates were balanced with its massive
recruitment, which is why they didn’t meet the UM or WB numbers with
similar numbers of recruits
-Estimated to be around 100,000 strong at the outbreak of the Heresy.
-Had a fleet of over 1500 ships and many more bonded by fealty.
-Many of the Fists ships were of the largest classes in the Imperium. Even the Sons
of Horus and Ultramarines didn’t have as many.
Dorn vs Perturabo
-Both were taciturn, both unyielding, both sublime artisans of war
-Instantly disliked one another from their first meeting
-Pattern of interaction might explain the animosity
-Both were stubborn and more so when challenged, spoke rarely, and were brooding
(but Dorn is noted as doing so without others noticing)
-The silence of one would aggravate the other, the blunt honesty would rouse the
other to anger, and once the dispute was begun neither would yield
-Very alike, but the areas of difference might’ve caused the rift: Both favored siege
craft, both were pragmatic in nature, but Perturabo would be brutally direct
and not care about casualties. Dorn wouldn’t baulk at high casualties if there
was no other way, but Perturabo viewed Legionaries as expendable.
-Summed up as a series of pressures, disparities, perceived slights, mischances,
and the two Primarch’s stubborn natures that perpetuated the animosity
more than any event.
Fortresses in the Stars
-The greatest fortresses built by the Fists were star forts
-Imperial Fists relished void war
-Greatest sieges of the Great Crusade were in the void, peerless in high- intensity
void war and ship-to-ship combat
-Treated their ships like fortresses free from gravity
-Dorn rebuilt the phalanx from a massive wreck orbiting Inwit and gave it to the
Emperor
-The Phalanx was more powerful than whole battlefleets and was a lynchpin of
Tannhauser42 wrote: Yeah, but Alpharius still needs a cool suit of armor to wear to the Primarchs' Victory Ball. Wouldn't want Fulgrim to score with all the ladies.
I'd figure for this situation he'd have a set of duplicate armor created to allow him to mimic any of the other Primarchs as needed, then execute a complex plan to wear every set through the evening. No one would know he was ever there, and he'd gather priceless rumors about the other primarch's personal hygiene habits.
I thought the Horus Heresy novels established that 'he' was physically a lot smaller than the other Primarchs, the better to fit in with this legion. I could totally see a rule like the old WHFB Dark Eldar Assin rule to let him pop up in any of his troop's squads, and I personally think it would've been neat to see more models that make the 'standard' Space Marine aesthetic look cool instead of adding tons of baroque detail to the design. Then again, I don't play 40k, so...
On the equipment listed for him a few pages back, he comes with a cortex controller, so he can control a unit of robots taken in the normal way as outlined in Book 2 (one cohort per legion list I believe). As Perturabo is also an independent character, I think he would be able to join the cohort because the unit can contain more than one model. Therefore he can have the bodyguard.
Ah.. thanks, I missed the cortex controller. Are the robots different than the legio cybernetica Castellax ones? The bodyguard in the novels were Colossus robots but that obviously could easily be changed and using castellax ones is an acceptable alternative as well.
The rules in book 2 just say any single robot maniple. As of the printing of book 2 that just meant Castellax (because they were the only existing robot rules at the time), but there may be new robot cohort options in book 3 and later books that you could also use.
His wargear entry listed the Logos and rules for them. Not sure about models though.
His wargear entry listed the Logos and rules for them. Not sure about models though.
The Logos includes the piece of wargear that allows him to personally control robots, but robots are actually available to any legion list if they upgrade their forge lords (and apparently techmarines and praetors for IW) with the piece of wargear, which is a cortex controller.
Re the big Tyranid beastie at FWOD posted by Si_T at Warpshadow:
"It's a new fast attack choice that's going to be in the next IA 2nd addition (Anphellion project). I spoke with Trish (the sculptor) and the idea behind it is that it is a larger lictor type creature and it's chest opens and loads of tentacles and spikes grab the unfortunate victim and reel it inside for digestion.
I asked about any other tyranids and she said there was an appetite for doing more and some other concepts kicking about but nothing else is scheduled yet.
This beast and the mechanicum units made it worth the trip!"
timd wrote: Re the big Tyranid beastie at FWOD posted by Si_T at Warpshadow:
"It's a new fast attack choice that's going to be in the next IA 2nd addition (Anphellion project). I spoke with Trish (the sculptor) and the idea behind it is that it is a larger lictor type creature and it's chest opens and loads of tentacles and spikes grab the unfortunate victim and reel it inside for digestion.
Finally a big tyranid beasty that walks up to you, grabs you with tentacles and devours you! Here another pic ... wait! Why do we get a Tyranid monster from FW? Because Warhammer Forge is dead and Trish refused to sculpt Space Marines
Also:
Bitterman on Advanced Tau Tactica wrote:I was at the Forge World Open Day today, got chatting to one of the designers who mentioned that he's working on a Riptide variant.
No model was on view yet; but there's talk of it being a highly maneuverable close-quarters suit, designed to jump right into the thick of things and soak up damage with an enlarged shield (perhaps not unlike the XV9 Hazards in role?). Its weapon is to be determined but may be a large Cyclic Ion Blaster, or similar.
I think design has only just started so I guess this is a few months away, but thought you'd all be interested to know that Forge World haven't forgotten about the Tau and there's more love for us in their future!
Minudra on Warseer wrote:Rumors for the warlord titan going around again.
1. Will be a Mars pattern
2. 2 turret mounted carapace weapons
3. Slightly taller but a lot bulkier than the Reaver.
4. Weapons are interchangeable with the Reaver/warhound arm mounts.
5. Still no time scale
Minudra on Warseer wrote:Rumors for the warlord titan going around again.
1. Will be a Mars pattern
2. 2 turret mounted carapace weapons
3. Slightly taller but a lot bulkier than the Reaver.
4. Weapons are interchangeable with the Reaver/warhound arm mounts.
5. Still no time scale
Minudra on Warseer wrote:Rumors for the warlord titan going around again.
1. Will be a Mars pattern
2. 2 turret mounted carapace weapons
3. Slightly taller but a lot bulkier than the Reaver.
4. Weapons are interchangeable with the Reaver/warhound arm mounts.
5. Still no time scale
6. You'll need a second mortgage to own one.
Exalted
Either way, I hope its true even if I will probably never own one. Just to be able to see the awesome model, and possibly even face one on the tabletop someday. For me, the Warlord is the most iconic titan class, and deserves a model.
Alpharius wrote: What's the Mars Pattern Warlord look like? A throwback to the older designs, with rounded carapaces? The old 'beetle back' design?
I'm hoping it is as cool as the Mars Pattern Warhound - the superior Warhound design!
I believe the Mars Pattern is the boxy one seen in this art. I could be wrong though:
Spoiler:
That's the Lucius pattern. The Mars is the old plastic beetleback, which I dislike the design, but trust Will Hayes et al. to update to something lovely, like he did with the old Dog Warhound and the scrawny reaver, making them hint at the original design cues but look both menacing and functional.
sonofruss wrote: This is just a personal feeling but I think it will be a cross of the Reaver and Beetle back. I just wonder if they will be doing the alternate heads.
I hope so. I may have mentioned things like alternate heads, female princeps, and princeps in the amniotic tanks to him last time I was at GamesDay.
I don't I've ever read that - and it doesn't really seem to fit.
But sure, whatever!
The Death Guard used to be specialist in fighting in extreme environments, had a higher than usual number of Terminator suits. Can you read "ideal for space hulk actions"?
HisDivineShadow wrote: I dont get why it's full resin. Why not an upgrade kit? Then spend those resources on more extras. Even if you are wholesale replacing the legs. ...
Depending on price. .I may just convert a Lancer.
Torso is narrower, legs are longer, armor plating is different. it was probably easier to make it full resin instead of throwing in a plastic knight for the sake of 6-10 individual parts.
Warlord is a bad idea. They're much larger than Reavers and to even fit the damn thing on a table you'd need to reduce its size, which would gak on the entire concept of Warlords.
Not to mention it'd cause several foreclosures and bankruptcies given FW prices.$6,000 really isn't a ridiculous price estimation.
Harriticus wrote: Warlord is a bad idea. They're much larger than Reavers and to even fit the damn thing on a table you'd need to reduce its size, which would gak on the entire concept of Warlords.
Not to mention it'd cause several foreclosures and bankruptcies given FW prices.$6,000 really isn't a ridiculous price estimation.
They aren't that much bigger than reavers. They aren't Emperors. Reaver is about 16" tall. Warlord will probably be about 22-24", with some of that height in the legs, and some in the fact that the beetleback has more of an "abdomen" than the reaver. Plus as a beetleback, part of that height will be the weapon turrets on the carapace. And it will be bulkier, but not excessively so.
It is going to share weapons with the Reaver, so we know the weapon prices there. The Warhound is 255 pounds for the body, Reaver is 425 pounds for the body, so I'd guess the Warlord will be in the range of 750-800 pounds for the body, on par with the Manta if you add the cost of the 4 weapons it will need.
Harriticus wrote: Warlord is a bad idea. They're much larger than Reavers and to even fit the damn thing on a table you'd need to reduce its size, which would gak on the entire concept of Warlords.
The FW Reaver is 24 meters tall (~16 inches) and according to the Apocalypse book the Warlord is 33 meters tall. So that would end up being a 24 inch tall model, which is certainly possible.
Reaver is 18" to the top of the Apoc launcher Warlord is supposed to be 24" tall they will eventually need to make a new carapace connector for the Warhound weapons as the apoc launchers connector won't work.
So it should cost between $800 and $1500 not a break the bank figure but still not cheap ether.
HisDivineShadow wrote: I dont get why it's full resin. Why not an upgrade kit? Then spend those resources on more extras. Even if you are wholesale replacing the legs. ...
Depending on price. .I may just convert a Lancer.
I think the photo below answers that question. Hello DF Leviathan...
sonofruss wrote: Reaver is 18" to the top of the Apoc launcher Warlord is supposed to be 24" tall they will eventually need to make a new carapace connector for the Warhound weapons as the apoc launchers connector won't work.
So it should cost between $800 and $1500 not a break the bank figure but still not cheap ether.
They aren't going to make a carapace connector for the warhound arms, the plan is to make a new turret that swaps in the barrels and ammo/power pack for the various weapons. Guns will have a mantlet and possibly be able to elevate.
Yeah...you know, seeing them side-by-side, I think FW went a bit OTT with the Lancer. An inch or so of extra height and a more slender design would have been enough to differentiate the two patterns. As it is, depending on the pose of each, the Lancer could conceivably end up taller than a Warhound, which is just daft IMO.
You really get the feeling they were told to make it as difficult as possible to just convert one. The size however does seem in line with a Knight Baron and in the new fluff they seem to have retconned Knight Barons as modified Knight Lancers.
I didn't want to be that guy with the Imperial Knight army. But I'll almost certainly have one of each variant they make, so if they do the crusader / castellan / Baron I will end up with an army's worth.
I just hope forge world do a power fist conversion kit for the errant, it really bugs me that the current kit uses the chainsword.
Also doe's the lancer HAVE to take the shield, the old epic ones had the lance and a battle cannon didn't they?
So it looks like the new Knight Lancer is about as tall as my Warhound. That makes me very sadface. Feels like it cheapens or takes away from the Titan.
RanaldLoec on Warseer wrote:Warhammer Fantasy releases I asked the answer was ...........................errrrr not any time soon.
This was also posted to their Facebook page before it, er, disappeared:
Q: Just curious does anyone know of the black fire pass project is still being worked on?
Forgeworld: Hi, I'm afraid it is on indefinate (sic) hold at the moment.
Behold, the towering Knight Lancer. It is a fearsome foe, striding well above it's opponents, scaring them silly before all 400 points of it is vaporized by 3 broadsides in a single round of shooting. Aren't you glad you ran at them 3d6 instead of shooting?
I have to say, I'm not terribly impressed by the Lancer, it just looks too tall and lanky (and the helmet is ugly.) I much prefer the heavy, solid look of the plastic knights. I really hope that existence of this new kit won't mean that all FW knight weapons will be for it instead of the plastic knights.
katfude wrote: Behold, the towering Knight Lancer. It is a fearsome foe, striding well above it's opponents, scaring them silly before all 400 points of it is vaporized by 3 broadsides in a single round of shooting. Aren't you glad you ran at them 3d6 instead of shooting?
That would be pretty impressive, considering its AV13 with a 4+ invulnerable save.
katfude wrote: Behold, the towering Knight Lancer. It is a fearsome foe, striding well above it's opponents, scaring them silly before all 400 points of it is vaporized by 3 broadsides in a single round of shooting. Aren't you glad you ran at them 3d6 instead of shooting?
That would be pretty impressive, considering its AV13 with a 4+ invulnerable save.
You sure? That looked like a fuzzy 12 to me, not a 13. I'll gladly accept av13 on the front!
sonofruss wrote: Reaver is 18" to the top of the Apoc launcher Warlord is supposed to be 24" tall they will eventually need to make a new carapace connector for the Warhound weapons as the apoc launchers connector won't work.
So it should cost between $800 and $1500 not a break the bank figure but still not cheap ether.
They aren't going to make a carapace connector for the warhound arms, the plan is to make a new turret that swaps in the barrels and ammo/power pack for the various weapons. Guns will have a mantlet and possibly be able to elevate.
Ok I just hope they fit the Reavers ascetic
Snrub wrote:
Alpharius wrote: That's just the cherry on top of the Wrong Sundae that is...Snrub.
Everyone knows that Curves are where it is at!
Yes well after seeing the 862 pages you've contributed toe hot chicks thread its not surprising to me at all that you think that way.
Curves... pfft. Everyone knows the best women are squared off at the hips, have super fething broad shoulders and tote plasma blastguns.
Take your beetley hunchbacked old crone and go back to Mars.
Things done in the pit stay in the pit Curves For the Omissia and hips for Mars
sonofruss wrote: Reaver is 18" to the top of the Apoc launcher Warlord is supposed to be 24" tall they will eventually need to make a new carapace connector for the Warhound weapons as the apoc launchers connector won't work.
So it should cost between $800 and $1500 not a break the bank figure but still not cheap ether.
They aren't going to make a carapace connector for the warhound arms, the plan is to make a new turret that swaps in the barrels and ammo/power pack for the various weapons. Guns will have a mantlet and possibly be able to elevate.
Ok I just hope they fit the Reavers ascetic
Given that the weapons are supposed to be interchangeable between the reaver and Warlord, they will fit the aesthetic.
HisDivineShadow wrote: I dont get why it's full resin. Why not an upgrade kit? Then spend those resources on more extras. Even if you are wholesale replacing the legs. ...
Depending on price. .I may just convert a Lancer.
I think the photo below answers that question. Hello DF Leviathan...
YESS!!! Now if only weapon options were at all appropriate to it -__-
Millicant wrote: So it looks like the new Knight Lancer is about as tall as my Warhound. That makes me very sadface. Feels like it cheapens or takes away from the Titan.
Don't worry, the warhound is still far, far bulkier than the lancer.
I always imagined Alpharius to be using some sort of illusions so he could just slip in with every one else, something akin to Magnus making himself appear larger and Curze hiding in the shadows.
I think the warlord will be around a couple thousand pounds knowing FW.
Rayvon wrote: I always imagined Alpharius to be using some sort of illusions so he could just slip in with every one else, something akin to Magnus making himself appear larger and Curze hiding in the shadows.
I think the warlord will be around a couple thousand pounds knowing FW.
That sounds like xenos witchcraft to me. I suspect he just used his extensive collection of STC Dark Age of Technology moustaches as disguises. It also has the added benefit of giving him something to twirl if and when he goes evil.
I am liking that Lancer. The size difference surprises me, I wonder if it was build before GW had finalized their own model?
Whatever the case I think it was a good move as I wouldn't have liked just a few little conversion bits for such an iconic and diverse model as a Knight.
Also. Why are those banners always shown at FW events not available for general sale? I would snatch a couple of them up in seconds!
IMO the Lancer is too big/massive in comparison to the Paladin.
The Lancer looks to be just under 8.5", making the relative heights between the 40K models the same as the relative heights between the Epic Paladin and the Epic Lancer with the German style helm (not counting his spike). The big difference between the 40K Lancer and the Epic Lancer is the overall mass. The Epic Lancer is much skinnier than the 40K Lancer, whereas the 40K Lancer is a both taller and more massive than the 40K Paladin.
After looking at this Paladin/Lancer comparison pic a bit we see the following major differences
Carapace is narrower and taller (about 3/8" taller)
Inner carapace collar is missing and head is larger than the Paladin head
Breast armor plate looks much bigger
Hips are wider?
Legs are heavier in general
Upper leg is longer
Middle leg segment added
Lower leg is longer
Don't see any easy way to scale down the mass and height of the Lancer. Seems like the best way to approach it would be to use the Lancer upper half and the lower half of the Paladin with lengthened legs to bring the overall height up to 7 to 7.5".
Excess lower Lancer retrograde legs could be used to make a Slaaneshi knight or even a Subjugator Titan...
Aye. It should be taller than the Paladin/Errant certainly, but any true Titan class vehicle, even the Warhound, should still look suitably imposing next to it, which they will not with this kit. People can bring up Epic, but they took enough liberties with other aspects of the design on the new Knights that the difference in height between the classes being a wee bit smaller is hardly an untenable suggestion. Even if you reduced the size of the new Lancer by 25% in all dimensions, it would still look tall and lanky in comparison to the plastic Knight, without appearing to drift into full-sized Titan territory.
Since I can't afford to waste half of a plastic Knight kit to convert more appropriate legs, and reducing the height of the Lancer's legs would make them look too bulky, this has gone from "Ooooohh, waaaant" to "meh" for me.
Guys, this thing is still TINY compared to a warhound titan. They might be about the same height ( I believe the Lancer will still be 1-2 inches shorter), but the Warhound has BULK. The only people this will affect are those of you who chose to use your Dreamforge Leviathans as Warhound Titans. This is about the same size as the Leviathan, which is, has been, and always will be too damned small to properly represent a Warhound.
chaos0xomega wrote: Guys, this thing is still TINY compared to a warhound titan. They might be about the same height ( I believe the Lancer will still be 1-2 inches shorter), but the Warhound has BULK. The only people this will affect are those of you who chose to use your Dreamforge Leviathans as Warhound Titans. This is about the same size as the Leviathan, which is, has been, and always will be too damned small to properly represent a Warhound.
Reference images of Leviathan vs Warhound:
Spoiler:
If it is equivalent to the Warhound in some dimensions, it is not "tiny" by comparison, merely slender by comparison, and IMO that's not enough there should be a clear distinction between Knights and true Titans. With the change to the relative proportions in the new Knight models(smaller head & cockpit moved to the torso, design cues from the Reaver) when compared to the Epic aesthetic, it also looks comically oversized next to the plastic Knight.
EDIT: To explain it another way - the Lancer looks like it could take on a Warhound 1v1 and stand a chance of winning, but they shouldn't even be in the same league. A small pack of Lancers? Sure that should threaten a Titan, but it should be obvious at first-glance that everything else being equal, any true Titan would massacre a solo Knight.
chaos0xomega wrote: Guys, this thing is still TINY compared to a warhound titan. They might be about the same height ( I believe the Lancer will still be 1-2 inches shorter), but the Warhound has BULK. The only people this will affect are those of you who chose to use your Dreamforge Leviathans as Warhound Titans. This is about the same size as the Leviathan, which is, has been, and always will be too damned small to properly represent a Warhound.
Reference images of Leviathan vs Warhound:
Spoiler:
If it is equivalent to the Warhound in some dimensions, it is not "tiny" by comparison, merely slender by comparison, and IMO that's not enough there should be a clear distinction between Knights and true Titans. With the change to the relative proportions in the new Knight models(smaller head & cockpit moved to the torso, design cues from the Reaver) when compared to the Epic aesthetic, it also looks comically oversized next to the plastic Knight.
EDIT: To explain it another way - the Lancer looks like it could take on a Warhound 1v1 and stand a chance of winning, but they shouldn't even be in the same league. A small pack of Lancers? Sure that should threaten a Titan, but it should be obvious at first-glance that everything else being equal, any true Titan would massacre a solo Knight.
Its only equivalent to a warhound in height dimension. height does not a titan make, see also Eldar Knights and Eldar Titans which are generally taller than their Imperial equivalents. If you honestly think that the Knight looks like its 'equivalent' to a warhound in size and/or mass, then you have a very warped (if not one dimensional) sense of scale. The warhound should easily outmass the lancer in bulk 2:1 or 3:1 or more.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also worth noting that, IIRC, the Lancer, specifically, is meant to go toe to toe with smaller titans, hence the lance weapon.
Aye. It should be taller than the Paladin/Errant certainly, but any true Titan class vehicle, even the Warhound, should still look suitably imposing next to it, which they will not with this kit. People can bring up Epic, but they took enough liberties with other aspects of the design on the new Knights that the difference in height between the classes being a wee bit smaller is hardly an untenable suggestion. Even if you reduced the size of the new Lancer by 25% in all dimensions, it would still look tall and lanky in comparison to the plastic Knight, without appearing to drift into full-sized Titan territory.
OK, here we go; Lancer reduced to 7" (17%) and 7.5" (10%). Reducing it 25% makes it the same height as the Paladin, so is a bit too much.
Seems to work at both of these heights. 7.25" might work well too. Modeling wise this does not help much except to give an idea on how tall the Lancer might want to be.
Is anyone else doing the old super mario bros noise you get when eating the mushroom after looking at that pic? Will FW also be coming out with a Raccoon variant knight as well?
Aye. It should be taller than the Paladin/Errant certainly, but any true Titan class vehicle, even the Warhound, should still look suitably imposing next to it, which they will not with this kit. People can bring up Epic, but they took enough liberties with other aspects of the design on the new Knights that the difference in height between the classes being a wee bit smaller is hardly an untenable suggestion. Even if you reduced the size of the new Lancer by 25% in all dimensions, it would still look tall and lanky in comparison to the plastic Knight, without appearing to drift into full-sized Titan territory.
OK, here we go; Lancer reduced to 7" (17%) and 7.5" (10%). Reducing it 25% makes it the same height as the Paladin, so is a bit too much.
Seems to work at both of these heights. 7.25" might work well too. Modeling wise this does not help much except to give an idea on how tall the Lancer might want to be.
You're right enough 25% would be too wee. The 7" picture is almost exactly what I imagined the scale would be when I saw the first couple of pictures; it's obviously taller and more slender, but it still looks like it belongs to the same class of vehicle.
And chaos0xomega, if as you admit it is equivalent to the Warhound in respect of height, then it is not as you originally stated "TINY". Whether the Warhound has greater mass is irrelevant, because the similarity in height alone is enough to imply a level of parity between them. You bring up the Eldar titans, but the fact they look like Titans despite being tall and thinner than Imperial offerings lines up pretty well with the argument I'm making; the Lancer is tall enough that despite it's slight build it still looks more like a Titan than a Knight. Also, I can find no fluff, old or new, that states the Lancer is designed to go up against Titan-scale enemies, it's specifically referred to as being a light and agile suit designed for outflanking, holding up enemies long enough for the heavier Knights to arrive, and scouting.
Height does not at all imply parity, height is merely a measure of how tall the damned thing is. Go take a look at the Wraithknight, its about as tall as a Warhound, are you telling me that its equivalent based on its HEIGHT???
Are you telling me that a 6'-3" tall 120lb man would be equal in strength and power to a 6'-3" tall 200lb man?
Use this to figure your size comparisons for now - it's not perfect, but it's pretty easy to see that the Warhound is still taller, and the Lancer gets nowhere near it in terms of bulk. I do like this FW Knight much more than the GW one.
aka_mythos wrote: I want the photo of the Lancer with a Riptide and Wraithknight just so we can confirm how much this towers over them. :p
It's certainly bigger than I imagined. I have no problem with it being the 10" tall it appears to be.
I scaled it from that photo and it came out a bit under 8.5" tall. Its nowhere near 10" tall. It will be a half inch+ shorter than the WraithKnight.
T
You're right. I was just remembering it as just over 7" instead of just over 6" and thinking the lancer was about 30-40% taller. My point was just simply some people have voiced their issue with its long slender profile and that I really don't take issue with it given what it does.
In the new fluff Knight Barons are simply suppose to be personalized and modified Lancers so it will be interesting to see if FW gives us rules, upgrades, or model kits to represent that, or if we are expected to simply apply senechal bonuses to the Lancer and call it a day.
I want the photo of the Lancer with a Riptide and Wraithknight just so we can confirm how much this towers over them. :p
It's certainly bigger than I imagined. I have no problem with it being the 10" tall it appears to be. This is suppose to be the Titan hunting variant and thus it makes sense that'd it'd be closer in size to a Titan. It seems that FWs concept is to play with the proportions of the knight for the different classes.
Over on Warseer I found this interesting:
OuroborosTriumphant;7114981 wrote:At the open day, I talked briefly to Daren Parrwood, the sculptor of the Lancer. He said that he has done some concept art for the third chassis, stout and stocky in the same way the Lancer is tall and gangly and is lobbying hard to be allowed to sculpt it because he really enjoys working on Knights but he has not yet had the go-ahead from on-high. There are, apparently, alternative weapons in the works for the Paladin/Errant chassis. He referred to the stouter chassis as the Warden chassis; someone asked about Crusaders and Castellans and he said that he envisioned them as alternate weapon loadouts for the stouter chassis, the same way the Paladin and the Errant share a chassis and are differentiated by weapons.
Really nice guy who seemed genuinely enthusiastic about Knights. Real pleasure to meet him.
It seems like the guy who is doing FW's knight sculpts has the idea they'll be doing a variety of add-ons and variants.
Yodhrin wrote: Also, I can find no fluff, old or new, that states the Lancer is designed to go up against Titan-scale enemies, it's specifically referred to as being a light and agile suit designed for outflanking, holding up enemies long enough for the heavier Knights to arrive, and scouting.
I don't know about fluff, but it's FW rules mean it can close really quickly, gives it a SD melee weapon, a 5++ save in combat and a -1 to hit penalty on an enemy super heavy or gargantuan creatures attacks in close combat. That seems pretty focused on super-heavy hunting to me.
Looks like the Dark Eldar Raven Fighter is missing from the new Catalogue. It's not the best model in the world, but would be nice if they got some love
Forgeworld newsflash just out. Looks like they intend to sell all the limited edition books before they even go up for general preorder as they can be preordered for salute and adepticon. Anyone want to pick me up one?
Sirius42 wrote: Forgeworld newsflash just out. Looks like they intend to sell all the limited edition books before they even go up for general preorder as they can be preordered for salute and adepticon. Anyone want to pick me up one?
I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but in FWs email new letter the shirts are listed under this heading
"The following pre-order items will be available at Adepticon"
This may mean that we will be able to get them after all.
Knockagh wrote: Anyone hear any whispers about additional zone mortalis tiles coming out this year?
On another rumor page some one asked and got that no more were being worked on right now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Co'tor Shas wrote: I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but in FWs email new letter the shirts are listed under this heading
"The following pre-order items will be available at Adepticon"
This may mean that we will be able to get them after all.
FW usually brings a number of prerelease items with them to events and sell them on a first come first serve basis. The fact they're bringing these to different events may reduce the total available the day they go on sale but in the past they've never brought so many that it zeroed out the release day availability.
Sirius42 wrote: Forgeworld newsflash just out. Looks like they intend to sell all the limited edition books before they even go up for general preorder as they can be preordered for salute and adepticon. Anyone want to pick me up one?
I really wanted one...
I emailed them and while they obviously weren't able to confirm numbers, they would say that only a small portion of the books would be available there. The Collectors Edition will go on general release sometime in the next two weeks - my bet is either the 4th (possibly) or the 11th (much more likely).
Sirius42 wrote: Forgeworld newsflash just out. Looks like they intend to sell all the limited edition books before they even go up for general preorder as they can be preordered for salute and adepticon. Anyone want to pick me up one?
I really wanted one...
I emailed them and while they obviously weren't able to confirm numbers, they would say that only a small portion of the books would be available there. The Collectors Edition will go on general release sometime in the next two weeks - my bet is either the 4th (possibly) or the 11th (much more likely).
I guess this means calling bright and early at 4:30am -5 gmt every Friday to see. If it gets me one it'll be worth it.
IA13 War Machines of the Lost and the Damned: Summer/Autumn 2014
via Pushkin over on Warseer
IA 13 is the next Imperial Armour book, and we are getting some information as to what it is called, and its contents. IA 13 will be called War Machines of the Lost and the Damned and will be coming this summer/fall. In it wil be updated or new Chaos Renegades, and lots of Chaos Vehicles.
The art book was on display at the open day and had pictures of a Chaos Thunderhawk, Chaos Stormeagle and the Anvilluss pattern and Kharybdis assault claw.
This sounds great, as adding more options for Chaos is always welcome.
Please remember that this is a rumor, and is a report from pushkin on what he saw at the Forgeworld Open Day
I posted quite a lot of this in the Forgeworld open day, but I went through the notes i made and had missed out a few things and i thought it would be good to get its own thread.
IA13 is called War Machines of the Lost and the Damned. It is written by Andy Hoare and edited by Talima Fox.
It will be released in Summer/Autumn 2014.
The book will contain an updated Chaos Renegades list similar to the one found in the Vraks trilogy, along with numerous chaos vehicles/war machines including updated versions of the Horus Heresy vehicles for the traitors to use in regular games of 40k. It's unclear whether this will be a variant of the 'Defenders of Vraks' list in IA1, the servants of slaughter list in IA6 or the servants of decay list in IA7. I imagine it will be a reworked version of all three. (i.e. quite chaosy but without the campaign specific units like the Alpha Legion). Talima described the list as being the renegade version of what the list in IA12 was for the Death Korps of Krieg - make of that what you will!
The art book was on display at the open day and had pictures of a Chaos Thunderhawk, Chaos Stormeagle and the Anvilluss pattern and Kharybdis assault claw.
Speaking to Andy Hoare he mentioned the rules for the Horus heresy era war machines would be updated to reflect the ten thousands years that they had spent in the warp and the access to munitions that the chaos legions had. He gave two examples, the first being the missile load out on the Storm Eagle, instead of the tempest rockets load out it will have access to Balefire missiles.
The second example was the class M2KB Landraider. Instead of the explorator augatory web which is designed for scanning enemy positions and co-ordinating forces, however due to the corruption of the warp this is now used to intercept enemy positions and thwart their movements. It will be interesting to see the rules for this.The greater brass scorpion of Khorne and the decimator engine also had new renders on screen in the graphics part, which suggests that updated rules for these models.
It's also worth noting that HH3: Extermination contains references to Iron Warrior specific siege tanks used during the battle of Paramar and the dark mechanicum using stalk tank like units to hunt the raven guard survivors on Istavaan, so it will be interesting to see whether these units crop up in either future HH books or IA13.
I am speaking to my friend who was also chatting to lots of the designers about this and many other things, so ill ask him if i've missed anything!
Afterthought - i'm not 100% sure that the name is correct, reading Vraks again all the lists refer to Renegades and heretics, but the start of the title was definitely "war machines of the".
Nice, a chaos themed book. Hopefully the next one will be xenos themed after that (despite the "Imperial" armour book line name which is admittedly only slightly less appropriate for a chaos themed book). Also, IB4inevitablechaoslegionruleswhining.
chaos0xomega wrote: Fun fact about the Collectors Edition BTW, its only 1/2 to 2/3rds or so of the price of buying the books individually.
The Collector's Edition doesn't include Books I & II
Except for the legion army list entries (not sure about the individual legion lists but IIRC they were on the table of contents posted earlier as well) but you are correct overall. Still, it's a good buy for someone just looking for a leaner book with the 30k marine "codex" separate. I'd be tempted to go in with someone who wants the big book and slip case but would be willing to sell the smaller codex book (feel free to PM me about that).
Sirius42 wrote: Forgeworld newsflash just out. Looks like they intend to sell all the limited edition books before they even go up for general preorder as they can be preordered for salute and adepticon. Anyone want to pick me up one?
I really wanted one...
I emailed them and while they obviously weren't able to confirm numbers, they would say that only a small portion of the books would be available there. The Collectors Edition will go on general release sometime in the next two weeks - my bet is either the 4th (possibly) or the 11th (much more likely).
Considering the size and weight of the HH books (let alone the increased size and weight of the collector's edition), I'm not surprised that only a small amount would be on sale at those events. Shipping a couple hundred pounds of books through normal channels is not cheap.
I see they have the trilogy as bundle @ £280 representing a £5 saving. Bit disappointed for others that the legion list book isn't available with the normal version of Extermination.
Got mine too Doesn't appear to be sold out yet, and it has been 30mins since the FW newsletter. Although most of the people saying they've got it- on here at least- seem to be European- is the rest of the world still asleep/at work atm? Gonna be a scramble for the last few copies I would think.
You do realise that would have meant anybody who brought even one of the first two books would have been ripped off big time? Each of the main books costs £70 each, the limited set is available for £145, meaning you would get one main book for free and the slipcase with the extras for £5. £70 * 3 = £210 + whatever they end up selling the slip case and extra books for.
I've been able to keep away from a lot of the Forgeworld Legion stuff, because I don't play/plan to play 30k. If a lot of this all of sudden becomes legal for Chaos, it's going to open the Floodgates.
I really think the Glaive is one of the coolest tanks around. Then you've got the Sicaran, which can help against pesky Serpents... Fire Raptors... and moar...
By the Way, what was the rules for the Sicaren Venator? I don't remember seeing them.
I've been able to keep away from a lot of the Forgeworld Legion stuff, because I don't play/plan to play 30k. If a lot of this all of sudden becomes legal for Chaos, it's going to open the Floodgates.
I really think the Glaive is one of the coolest tanks around. Then you've got the Sicaran, which can help against pesky Serpents... Fire Raptors... and moar...
By the Way, what was the rules for the Sicaren Venator? I don't remember seeing them.
I've been able to keep away from a lot of the Forgeworld Legion stuff, because I don't play/plan to play 30k. If a lot of this all of sudden becomes legal for Chaos, it's going to open the Floodgates.
I really think the Glaive is one of the coolest tanks around. Then you've got the Sicaran, which can help against pesky Serpents... Fire Raptors... and moar...
By the Way, what was the rules for the Sicaren Venator? I don't remember seeing them.
Sicaran base states with a Neutron Pulse Laser as the primary weapon, which is a bit funky, first introduced with the Valdor tank Hunter:
St 10 Ap1 Ordnance D3, on any pen result, inflicts crew shaken on top of the rolled result, but if it doesn't pen, you take a glance from the massive feedback on the gun.
Hmm, apparently Ordnance 2 now; they keep changing how many shots it gets.
I've been able to keep away from a lot of the Forgeworld Legion stuff, because I don't play/plan to play 30k. If a lot of this all of sudden becomes legal for Chaos, it's going to open the Floodgates.
I really think the Glaive is one of the coolest tanks around. Then you've got the Sicaran, which can help against pesky Serpents... Fire Raptors... and moar...
By the Way, what was the rules for the Sicaren Venator? I don't remember seeing them.
Sicaran base states with a Neutron Pulse Laser as the primary weapon, which is a bit funky, first introduced with the Valdor tank Hunter:
St 10 Ap1 Ordnance D3, on any pen result, inflicts crew shaken on top of the rolled result, but if it doesn't pen, you take a glance from the massive feedback on the gun.
Hmm, apparently Ordnance 2 now; they keep changing how many shots it gets.
Actually there isn't feedback on the venator's neutron beam laser. It says Archmagos Jun Hadyxis found a way to prevent it in the scaled down design made for the tank.
I've been able to keep away from a lot of the Forgeworld Legion stuff, because I don't play/plan to play 30k. If a lot of this all of sudden becomes legal for Chaos, it's going to open the Floodgates.
I really think the Glaive is one of the coolest tanks around. Then you've got the Sicaran, which can help against pesky Serpents... Fire Raptors... and moar...
By the Way, what was the rules for the Sicaren Venator? I don't remember seeing them.
Sicaran base states with a Neutron Pulse Laser as the primary weapon, which is a bit funky, first introduced with the Valdor tank Hunter:
St 10 Ap1 Ordnance D3, on any pen result, inflicts crew shaken on top of the rolled result, but if it doesn't pen, you take a glance from the massive feedback on the gun.
Hmm, apparently Ordnance 2 now; they keep changing how many shots it gets.
Actually there isn't feedback on the venator's neutron beam laser. It says Archmagos Jun Hadyxis found a way to prevent it in the scaled down design made for the tank.
Well isn't he a jerk for not applying that to the Valdor.
I've been able to keep away from a lot of the Forgeworld Legion stuff, because I don't play/plan to play 30k. If a lot of this all of sudden becomes legal for Chaos, it's going to open the Floodgates.
I really think the Glaive is one of the coolest tanks around. Then you've got the Sicaran, which can help against pesky Serpents... Fire Raptors... and moar...
By the Way, what was the rules for the Sicaren Venator? I don't remember seeing them.
Sicaran base states with a Neutron Pulse Laser as the primary weapon, which is a bit funky, first introduced with the Valdor tank Hunter:
St 10 Ap1 Ordnance D3, on any pen result, inflicts crew shaken on top of the rolled result, but if it doesn't pen, you take a glance from the massive feedback on the gun.
Hmm, apparently Ordnance 2 now; they keep changing how many shots it gets.
Actually there isn't feedback on the venator's neutron beam laser. It says Archmagos Jun Hadyxis found a way to prevent it in the scaled down design made for the tank.
Well isn't he a jerk for not applying that to the Valdor.
Hey so what do you think about the Fire Raptor? I played a game with my Tau against some Iron Hands yesterday, and my opponent pulled the bad as looking model out. At first I was really worried, but I found that it wasn't THAT bad. I thought that for a gunboat its rules were fairly well written, except for maybe being under-priced by 50 points it was fine. So what do you think about it community?
IA 13 is the next Imperial Armour book, and we are getting some information as to what it is called, and its contents. IA 13 will be called War Machines of the Lost and the Damned and will be coming this summer/fall. In it wil be updated or new Chaos Renegades, and lots of Chaos Vehicles.
The art book was on display at the open day and had pictures of a Chaos Thunderhawk, Chaos Stormeagle and the Anvilluss pattern and Kharybdis assault claw.
This sounds great, as adding more options for Chaos is always welcome.
Please remember that this is a rumor, and is a report from pushkin on what he saw at the Forgeworld Open Day
via Pushkin over on Warseer
I posted quite a lot of this in the Forgeworld open day, but I went through the notes i made and had missed out a few things and i thought it would be good to get its own thread.
IA13 is called War Machines of the Lost and the Damned. It is written by Andy Hoare and edited by Talima Fox.
It will be released in Summer/Autumn 2014.
The book will contain an updated Chaos Renegades list similar to the one found in the Vraks trilogy, along with numerous chaos vehicles/war machines including updated versions of the Horus Heresy vehicles for the traitors to use in regular games of 40k. It's unclear whether this will be a variant of the 'Defenders of Vraks' list in IA1, the servants of slaughter list in IA6 or the servants of decay list in IA7. I imagine it will be a reworked version of all three. (i.e. quite chaosy but without the campaign specific units like the Alpha Legion). Talima described the list as being the renegade version of what the list in IA12 was for the Death Korps of Krieg - make of that what you will!
The art book was on display at the open day and had pictures of a Chaos Thunderhawk, Chaos Stormeagle and the Anvilluss pattern and Kharybdis assault claw.
Speaking to Andy Hoare he mentioned the rules for the Horus heresy era war machines would be updated to reflect the ten thousands years that they had spent in the warp and the access to munitions that the chaos legions had. He gave two examples, the first being the missile load out on the Storm Eagle, instead of the tempest rockets load out it will have access to Balefire missiles.
The second example was the class M2KB Landraider. Instead of the explorator augatory web which is designed for scanning enemy positions and co-ordinating forces, however due to the corruption of the warp this is now used to intercept enemy positions and thwart their movements. It will be interesting to see the rules for this.The greater brass scorpion of Khorne and the decimator engine also had new renders on screen in the graphics part, which suggests that updated rules for these models.
It's also worth noting that HH3: Extermination contains references to Iron Warrior specific siege tanks used during the battle of Paramar and the dark mechanicum using stalk tank like units to hunt the raven guard survivors on Istavaan, so it will be interesting to see whether these units crop up in either future HH books or IA13.
I am speaking to my friend who was also chatting to lots of the designers about this and many other things, so ill ask him if i've missed anything!
Afterthought - i'm not 100% sure that the name is correct, reading Vraks again all the lists refer to Renegades and heretics, but the start of the title was definitely "war machines of the".
haroon wrote: I don't understand why this isnt sold out yet. This is 1000 times cooler then then void shield.
I can kind of understand it. The only people who are really going to want it are probably those who actually play 30K and want the legion books in it. Or those who want the art book.
And Forgeworld still doesn't haven't the following and exposure that the rest of GW has, so a lot of the possible audience may not even know about it.
I noticed that in the limited edition description it only says the art book is aviable threw the collectior's edition. It seems to imply the FW might the other two books outside of the collection.
Also it probly didn't sell out right away because it's like $250+
At least this one genuinely has something to show for its limited edition-ness. Remember all those fancy limited edition Space Marine Codices that only had a fancy cover to justify being so much more expensive.
At least this one genuinely has something to show for its limited edition-ness. Remember all those fancy limited edition Space Marine Codices that only had a fancy cover to justify being so much more expensive.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: It has to be said the quality of the first two HH books was amazing plus you could crush small children with them.
It's true.
Whenever I'm looking for high quality material to pin my kids to the floor with, I sit my HH books on them and watch them struggle like a turtle on it's back.
Have we gotten any word on what the next Primarch/character model is going to be? The Alpha Legion fanboy in me wants Alpharius/Omegon but the "I-really-want-to-see-what-they-do" in me would like to see Vulkan or Mortarion.
Darth Bob wrote: Have we gotten any word on what the next Primarch/character model is going to be? The Alpha Legion fanboy in me wants Alpharius/Omegon but the "I-really-want-to-see-what-they-do" in me would like to see Vulkan or Mortarion.
I would suspect a loyalist, since we had two traitor in a row.
I'm hoping for more loyalists, we've been very Chaos heavy in the collectors series so far.
We have
1. Horus. (Chaos Primarch)
2. Fulgrim, (Chaos Primarch)
3. Kharn, (Chaos)
4. Typhon, (Chaos)
5, Lorgar, (Chaos Primarch)
6, Ferrus Manus, (Loyalist Primarch)
7. Erebus/Kor Phaeron (Chaos)
8. Angron (Chaos Primarch)
9. Abbadon/Loken (Chaos/Loyalist)
Eleven models, Nine Chaos, Two Loyalist, Four Chaos Primarchs, one Loyalist Primarch.
H.B.M.C. wrote: They still need to do Mortarion. He's gotta be next, right?
I think so too. Edgar Skomorowski hinted in the preview video for Typhon that this project set up his next one, so Mortarion is a fair guess. Heard in other comments that they want to have a unique pose for him and his scythe, thats why the whole process got prolongued.
After Horus Eagan might tackle Vulcan ... thats also just a guess from what he said in the Horus preview as he talked about a very detailed armor.
Darth Bob wrote: Have we gotten any word on what the next Primarch/character model is going to be? The Alpha Legion fanboy in me wants Alpharius/Omegon but the "I-really-want-to-see-what-they-do" in me would like to see Vulkan or Mortarion.
Darth Bob wrote: Have we gotten any word on what the next Primarch/character model is going to be? The Alpha Legion fanboy in me wants Alpharius/Omegon but the "I-really-want-to-see-what-they-do" in me would like to see Vulkan or Mortarion.
Yeah, you're officially out of the Legion now!
Spoiler:
But fine! I'll go make my own super secret Space Marine club and guess what! You can't join because we're so super secret and mysterious!
Darth Bob wrote: Have we gotten any word on what the next Primarch/character model is going to be? The Alpha Legion fanboy in me wants Alpharius/Omegon but the "I-really-want-to-see-what-they-do" in me would like to see Vulkan or Mortarion.
I'm really looking forward to Mortarion. He's long overdue.
Obviously I'd love to see Vulkan get his moment in the lime-light, but to be honest, I really want to see how they go about doing Alpharius Omegon - from the artwork in Extermination, I'm loving that Hydra-helm (Probably because it looks like a Corinthian helm, and I've a huge interest in Ancient Greeks). Aside from that, I'd like to see their take on Corax as well. As for Mortarion - Meh, I've no love for Death Guard, and if Typhon is anything to go by, Mortarion won't be truly jaw-dropping (I'm fully prepared to get burned on that statement though )
The Forge World Open Day was our biggest event of the year so far and everyone who attended got to see some great new models, many of which are still being worked on, as well as the epic The Horus Heresy Book Three: Extermination. Tickets for the event sold out pretty quickly, so I wanted to show those of you who couldn’t make it there some more pictures of some of the coolest models on show during the day.
You’ll have seen the Cerastus Knight-Lancer in last week's bulletin. It’s an amazing model and a towering example of Mechanicus perfection that will undoubtedly destroy all that dares to stand before it. Here you can see some of the detail on the model, including its sculpted interior.
The Cerastus Knight-Lancer is fantastically detailed.
Also on show at the Open Day were upgrade sets for some of the Space Marine Legions. There are quite a few being worked on currently and my favourite has to be those made for the Emperor’s Children.
Just part of the Emperor’s Children Legion upgrade kit.
Forge World are going to be at a whole host of other events this year and we’re adding more all the time, so check out the events page for details. This weekend we’ll be at Salute 2014. Hopefully I’ll see you there!!
That’s all from me for now. Make sure you check back soon for more from the Forge World Studio.
Chris.
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Basically a lose combat version with a big shield, and undetermined close combat weapons at this point, but hey think an upgraded ionic gun. I thought tau didn't know hand to fin combat.
I'm trying desperately not to collect a 30k army, so I'm just sticking to the collectors series at the moment, and I've got them all to date, so there was nothing else I needed.
Although if there are rules for Rogal Dorn in HH:3, I might break.....
Yep there are rules for Dorn and his own dedicates transport thunderhawk gunship! I'm looking forward ( well maybe!) To facing him as soon as his and alpharius models appear.
I expect at least one of the IF characters will be Sigismund and the other Alexis Polux (First chapter masters of the Black Templars and Crimson Fists post heresy)
Those might actually be the models to convince me to buy into this 'heresy character series'. They should be cool, even if BLs recent love affair with hardback limited novellas have killed most of my interest in the 30k setting.
marv335 wrote: I expect at least one of the IF characters will be Sigismund and the other Alexis Polux (First chapter masters of the Black Templars and Crimson Fists post heresy)
marv335 wrote: I expect at least one of the IF characters will be Sigismund and the other Alexis Polux (First chapter masters of the Black Templars and Crimson Fists post heresy)
jonolikespie wrote: Those might actually be the models to convince me to buy into this 'heresy character series'. They should be cool, even if BLs recent love affair with hardback limited novellas have killed most of my interest in the 30k setting.
You'll have years to wait still if the glacial pace of primarch releases continue as normal. Maybe in 2020 they'll have everything done
spiderman_stu over at Warseer wrote:Hi guys,
been to the event today and had really great discussion with a few of the book design team around thousand sons and a release! If some of this stuff is already known then fair enough but some may be new! 2 heresy books a year with something in between to break it up and let more models to be released! Now I've seen some rumours that say prospero may be book 4, well I was told it would most likely be book 5! Also had a chat about that book and was confirmed custodians, sisters and wolves will be included! Now I really wanted to find out about the rules and how TS would be represented and they are currently trying to work rules to be fair, I asked about brotherhood of psykers like GK but was told they were trying to make it cooler so powers for each group but they hadn't worked out how many if all would be psychic in a unit! Also talked and they have done a test squad of TS as well the medusa and confirmed sergeants will have white shoulder trims while normal guys gold! Also told mechanicum transport is being worked on! But put prospero book back to maybe this time next year?
(...)
From talking to the guys they want to make sure they get it right, like trying to not make custodians to ott and Ahriman, Bjorne, and how the psychic powers fit in to the heresy when no other legion really has any! One of the designers said prospero and emperors palace books are the 2 he can't wait to do models for!
also he said next few books are written year before release so book 3 they finished year ago just all the models and art take the time to complete. I am really buzzing for them though, what mastery level will Magnus be?
I know the next 3 are supposed to be calth, signus and prospero but I don't know if they have changed the order as originally prospero was going to be book 6
Sirius42 wrote: I know the next 3 are supposed to be calth, signus and prospero but I don't know if they have changed the order as originally prospero was going to be book 6
Actully the order alot of people have been quoteing has been
4)Prospero
5)Signus(Plus dark angel side story)
6)Calth.
If Prospero is book 5, then I would guess it would be Signus that will take it's spot.
(This order is bassicly derived from the chronalical order the evens took place)
Enigma Crisis wrote: I haven't actually seen the rules for it but I really enjoy the look of the Fire Raptor.
I sent an email to FW asking why the GKs aren't included in the list for who can field the Fire Raptor. Hopefully they can provide a good explanation. Is there something I'm missing? Like is there already a fluff reason or something?
My problem with Magnus' stats are going to be that he's basically the most powerful Primarch by any metric, so I'm not sure how they'll tone him down. Only reason Russ beat him is cause that's what Russ is supposed to do since no one else has a crazy anti-warp field like he does.
Honestly Magnus and the Emperor are just too powerful for normal 40k stats heh. Then again Lorgar did beat An'ggrath the unbound in single combat so stats dont mean a lot! (same with that stupid inquisitor dude)
Magnus is the most powerful psyker, not the most powerful primarch, as there is actually no such thing in my opinion, they all have strengths and weaknesses but if you averaged them all out they should all be even (except lorgar, I hate that guy!). Seriously though, mortarion-hardest to kill, vulkan-physically strongest(and the bad fluff spoiler), angron/sanguinus/Russ-best in cc and really angry/precog and wings/anti warp pet wolves respectively, corax/night haunter- stealth and jump packs, horus-savage and tactically sound, I could go on but getting bored now, oh 1 more-alpharius-double strike (so as to no spoiler).
Sirius42 wrote: Magnus is the most powerful psyker, not the most powerful primarch, as there is actually no such thing in my opinion, they all have strengths and weaknesses but if you averaged them all out they should all be even (except lorgar, I hate that guy!). Seriously though, mortarion-hardest to kill, vulkan-physically strongest(and the bad fluff spoiler), angron/sanguinus/Russ-best in cc and really angry/precog and wings/anti warp pet wolves respectively, corax/night haunter- stealth and jump packs, horus-savage and tactically sound, I could go on but getting bored now, oh 1 more-alpharius-double strike (so as to no spoiler).
Magnus was the largest and physically the strongest of the Primarchs he just didn't use his physical strength as much as his brothers did.
As for how Russ he broke Magnus like a twig because of the TS using forbidden powers and the Big E told him to take them out.
Sirius42 wrote: Magnus is the most powerful psyker, not the most powerful primarch, as there is actually no such thing in my opinion, they all have strengths and weaknesses but if you averaged them all out they should all be even (except lorgar, I hate that guy!). Seriously though, mortarion-hardest to kill, vulkan-physically strongest(and the bad fluff spoiler), angron/sanguinus/Russ-best in cc and really angry/precog and wings/anti warp pet wolves respectively, corax/night haunter- stealth and jump packs, horus-savage and tactically sound, I could go on but getting bored now, oh 1 more-alpharius-double strike (so as to no spoiler).
Magnus was the largest and physically the strongest of the Primarchs he just didn't use his physical strength as much as his brothers did.
As for how Russ he broke Magnus like a twig because of the TS using forbidden powers and the Big E told him to take them out.
While he was certainly the largest we have nothing to confirm that he was actually the strongest. Simply being physically larger than someone doesn't guarantee that you are stronger than them. Is there actually evidence of him showing physical strength above that of his brothers? Or indeed evidence of others in the fluff claiming him to be the strongest Primarch (other than the logical jump people are making when he is described as the largest Primarch)? Based on actual evidence I believe Vulkan and Angron are the top two contenders for being the strongest, Vulkan repeatedly displays extraordinary strength even without armour (and as the most passive Primarch claims he never used his full strength when sparring etc) and Angron held up a Titan.
Sirius42 wrote: I know the next 3 are supposed to be calth, signus and prospero but I don't know if they have changed the order as originally prospero was going to be book 6
Actully the order alot of people have been quoteing has been
4)Prospero
5)Signus(Plus dark angel side story)
6)Calth.
If Prospero is book 5, then I would guess it would be Signus that will take it's spot.
(This order is bassicly derived from the chronalical order the evens took place)
So far we have 12 of the legions done:
Sons of Horus, Death Guard, Emperor's Children, and World Eaters in book 1
Iron Hands, Salamanders, Word Bearers, and Night Lords? in book 2
Iron Warriors, Raven Guard, Alpha Legion, Imperial Fists in book 3.
That leaves 6 to go, so we can easily fit them in the next three books:
Prospero- Space Wolves and Thousand Sons, with Sisters of Silence and Custodes
Signus- Blood Angels and Daemons, with Dark Angels (maybe and more night lords?)
Calth- Ultramarines, Imperial Army, likely updates for Word Bearers and World Eaters. White Scars seem like they would fit in here as well, like DA fit in the signus book.
Then book 7 could combine all the Mechanicum units, add Dark Mechanicum, and likely the Warlord Titan and do Mars.
Kirasu wrote: My problem with Magnus' stats are going to be that he's basically the most powerful Primarch by any metric,
Considering how nuts-bonkers all the Primarchs are so far, it really wouldn't matter if he was totally OP. All of them are.
A lot of people like to point at Angron and say "he's not that good" but that's because they simply look at a 3+ save and think he's bad because of it. Considering anyone who's actually going to be a threat to him in close combat will be rocking AP2, who cares? He's still got a 4++. Only hurts him in the shooting phase by a little bit. We've theory ran him in some games at my FLGS and he tends to kill significantly more dudes than any of his brothers. He's just not ubertank like Vulkan, Ferrus Manus and Mortarion but then again the only other primarch without psychic aid who should be nearly as tank as they are is Perturabo.
And a lot of other people think Lorgar isn't that great. I think they are stupid. Lorgar is OP. Pick your powers, roll 3 dice and take the two lowest? Guaranteed Invisibility/Gate of Infinity, and you don't have to worry about failing your psychic tests (though I guess he's at greater risk to Perils of the Warp). As long as invisibility is up, he can actually take on most the other primarchs and do pretty solid.
Yeah, worrying about the Primarch rules is a little silly. They're Primarchs. They're meant to be stupidly powerful.
Anyway, what do people think the third trilogy would have? Assume that the Siege of Terra is three books unto itself, what other conflicts are there? The war on Mars? Battle of Tallarn? What else would fit?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, worrying about the Primarch rules is a little silly. They're Primarchs. They're meant to be stupidly powerful.
Anyway, what do people think the third trilogy would have? Assume that the Siege of Terra is three books unto itself, what other conflicts are there? The war on Mars? Battle of Tallarn? What else would fit?
I'd imagine a series of books in the epic struggle of the Emperor trying to hold in a dookie.
The Procrastination of the Emperor The Constipation of the Emperor The Golden Toilet Malfunctions
Magnus was the largest and physically the strongest of the Primarchs he just didn't use his physical strength as much as his brothers did.
As for how Russ he broke Magnus like a twig because of the TS using forbidden powers and the Big E told him to take them out.
Not really,Malcador said to bring him in,it was Horus that convinced Russ that Magnus was beyond saving.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, worrying about the Primarch rules is a little silly. They're Primarchs. They're meant to be stupidly powerful.
Anyway, what do people think the third trilogy would have? Assume that the Siege of Terra is three books unto itself, what other conflicts are there? The war on Mars? Battle of Tallarn? What else would fit?
I'd imagine a series of books in the epic struggle of the Emperor trying to hold in a dookie.
The Procrastination of the Emperor
The Constipation of the Emperor
The Golden Toilet Malfunctions
SRSFACE wrote: A lot of people like to point at Angron and say "he's not that good" but that's because they simply look at a 3+ save and think he's bad because of it. Considering anyone who's actually going to be a threat to him in close combat will be rocking AP2, who cares? He's still got a 4++. Only hurts him in the shooting phase by a little bit. We've theory ran him in some games at my FLGS and he tends to kill significantly more dudes than any of his brothers. He's just not ubertank like Vulkan, Ferrus Manus and Mortarion but then again the only other primarch without psychic aid who should be nearly as tank as they are is Perturabo.
And a lot of other people think Lorgar isn't that great. I think they are stupid. Lorgar is OP. Pick your powers, roll 3 dice and take the two lowest? Guaranteed Invisibility/Gate of Infinity, and you don't have to worry about failing your psychic tests (though I guess he's at greater risk to Perils of the Warp). As long as invisibility is up, he can actually take on most the other primarchs and do pretty solid.
I agree 100%. Angron is really solid. And powered-up Lorgar is pretty crazy. People look at basic statlines too much.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, worrying about the Primarch rules is a little silly. They're Primarchs. They're meant to be stupidly powerful.
Anyway, what do people think the third trilogy would have? Assume that the Siege of Terra is three books unto itself, what other conflicts are there? The war on Mars? Battle of Tallarn? What else would fit?
It'd be cool if they just made a "Galaxy in Flames" trilogy, that had a variety of theaters of war in each book rather than one particular theme. That way you can have something for everyone. I think localized conflicts such as Prospero, Calth, Signus Prime and the ones you mention would struggle to be trilogies, as they are very limited conflicts with usually only have 2 main combatants and so would only appeal to smaller audiences. But then again, that's what Imperial Armor has been doing for sometime.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, worrying about the Primarch rules is a little silly. They're Primarchs. They're meant to be stupidly powerful.
Anyway, what do people think the third trilogy would have? Assume that the Siege of Terra is three books unto itself, what other conflicts are there? The war on Mars? Battle of Tallarn? What else would fit?
Given the Mechanicum vs. EC diorama we saw + the Mechanicum battle tiles recently produced I wouldn't be surprised to see some war on Mars stuff.
nels1031 wrote: It'd be cool if they just made a "Galaxy in Flames" trilogy, that had a variety of theaters of war in each book rather than one particular theme. That way you can have something for everyone. I think localized conflicts such as Prospero, Calth, Signus Prime and the ones you mention would struggle to be trilogies, as they are very limited conflicts with usually only have 2 main combatants and so would only appeal to smaller audiences. But then again, that's what Imperial Armor has been doing for sometime.
My apologies. My wording was ambiguous. When I said Battle of Tallarn or Mars, I didn't mean a whole trilogy for just that battle. I meant as one of the three books in the next cycle, so to speak. So as Prospero, Calth and Signus will be the 3 books of the next trilogy, so too could Tallarn be one book out of three, or Mars be one book, and so on.
*Someone managed to hustle up a copy of HH:3 and is in nerdy, nerdy heaven this evening*
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just died a little.. and my.. my wallet just comitted ritual suicide with a handgrenade in the bathroom - fragmented card and burned leather-scraps everywhere.
All bow down before the dark majesty that is the insanity of Forge World and give them all of your monies.
My friends, I present to you: Arch-Magos Inar Satarael, Master of the Taghmata Satarael, Synod-Persecutor of Incaladion, The Grief of Zoroastris, The Fleshless Lord.
Really cool! Now when kids ask "where do baby servo skulls come from?"-We know the answer. FW has managed to incorporate a lot of skulls but in a way that makes sense.
Really cool! Now when kids ask "where do baby servo skulls come from?"-We know the answer. FW has managed to incorporate a lot of skulls but in a way that makes sense.
FW has created the most efficient way of harvesting nerd money possible. Correct usage of skulls on models.
Just did a quick head count. I count 14 skulls. Extrapolate for skulls we can't see but can reasonably assume are there and I give it between 20 - 25 skulls.
Snrub wrote: Just did a quick head count. I count 14 skulls. Extrapolate for skulls we can't see but can reasonably assume are there and I give it between 20 - 25 skulls.
Is anyone still surprised when GW/FW stuff has a lot of skulls on it?
So yeah, lets not make "Skull Counting" a 'thing', OK?
Snrub wrote: Just did a quick head count. I count 14 skulls. Extrapolate for skulls we can't see but can reasonably assume are there and I give it between 20 - 25 skulls.
Is anyone still surprised when GW/FW stuff has a lot of skulls on it?
So yeah, lets not make "Skull Counting" a 'thing', OK?
To be fair, here is a true story of my 10 year old nephew who has never seen anything GW until he saw my garage last year.
The kids were playing with some models I had recently primed (Some Terminators, Scouts, Dreadnaught, something else). They were making up rules and stories as they were playing with the figures as kids like to do. After playing for a couple of hours he showed me a different model (I can't remember what it was) and asked me "is this Warhammer too?" and I told him that it was.
His reply?
"Oh...I wasn't sure. It didn't have a skull on it..."
kronk wrote: I have no idea that that is, but it's freaking cool!
The Magos Dominus may be mounted on an "Abeyant" which is described as a hovering throne giving the Magos +1 wound, move through cover, hardened armor, very bulky, and it will not die. My guess is this is that, though the poster implied its representing a named character.
Didn't see if anyone posted this, but here's newsletter #397!
Spoiler:
The Falchion is a potent war machine which combines technologies fielded in the Fellblade and the Shadowsword super-heavy tank. The Falchion’s twin-linked Volcano cannon is one of the most powerful vehicle-mounted, anti-tank weapons in the Imperium’s arsenal and it requires such an investment in resources to construct just a single example that its use is limited to the Legiones Astartes.
The Falchion was developed long before the outbreak of the Horus Heresy and as such its prey was not the enemy Titans it would later see such extensive combat against. As the Great Crusade expanded ever outward, the Expeditionary fleets encountered a staggering array of foes, some of whom were of a truly gargantuan scale, but all were set to ravening flame by the touch of the Falchion’s Volcano cannon.
The rules for the Falchion, as well as many other exciting new models, can be found in the forthcoming book The Horus Heresy Book Three: Extermination.
A complete multi-part resin kit, designed by Phil Stutcinskas, this model is available to pre-order now and will be despatched from Thursday 1st May.
Legion Falchion Super-heavy Tank Destroyer
Legion Falchion Super-heavy Tank Destroyer
New Realm of Battle Industrial Boards
In a galaxy where conflict is commonplace, Imperial architecture is often by necessity fortified against possible attack. Should the Alien, the Traitor or the Heretic attempt to assault an Imperial world, more often than not it is the great cities of humanity that become battlegrounds. Large industrial facilities are transformed into key objectives, with generatorum nexus becoming vital sources of power and manufactorum sectors providing much-needed supplies or raw materials.
Forge World scenery designer Blake Spence has created two new modular Realm of Battle Cityscape tiles. Each is light weight and durable thanks to the hollow resin method we use, and each tile measures 2' x 2' (610 mm x 610 mm).
The Realm of Battle Generatorum Nexus tile and the Realm of Battle Manufactorum Sector tile are available to pre-order and will be despatched from Thursday 1st May.
I really like the look of the Falchion but the Generatorum tiles are really, really awesome. I may have to pick them up eventually.
So, given that a billion FW army lists are based off the Imperial Guard book, I wonder how long we'll be waiting for updates to them? My own group doesn't have any issues with just using the different Russ point values and the like, that's simple and intuitive, but what of things like the LR Annihilator and Conquerer, which were previously budget-russes, and are now the same as everything else.
MajorStoffer wrote: So, given that a billion FW army lists are based off the Imperial Guard book, I wonder how long we'll be waiting for updates to them? My own group doesn't have any issues with just using the different Russ point values and the like, that's simple and intuitive, but what of things like the LR Annihilator and Conquerer, which were previously budget-russes, and are now the same as everything else.
It is kind of annoying that IA1 Vol 2 came out only what, a year or so ago? It updated the guard stuff to 6th, now the new Guard codex invalidates it.
I can see FW having fun making more unique tank commander characters, like Grizmund. And the Medusa, Griffon, and Colossus/Bombard will rejoin the Guard.
They'll update via a faq in a few months like they did before. The version two of the books was as much about adding new units to very old books as it was to updating the points cost.
Can people help me out here? If I bought a falchion for my imperial fists, would the rules and points translate to normal 40k or does horus heresy have any unique rules or different points costings? Same goes for Dorn as he was around long after the heresy to lead my army.
Enigma Crisis wrote: I haven't actually seen the rules for it but I really enjoy the look of the Fire Raptor.
I sent an email to FW asking why the GKs aren't included in the list for who can field the Fire Raptor. Hopefully they can provide a good explanation. Is there something I'm missing? Like is there already a fluff reason or something?
The reasoning could be as simple as no psychic pilot rule.
monkeypuzzle wrote: Can people help me out here? If I bought a falchion for my imperial fists, would the rules and points translate to normal 40k or does horus heresy have any unique rules or different points costings? Same goes for Dorn as he was around long after the heresy to lead my army.
Worst case you could always switch to the legion list for your Imp. Fists.
monkeypuzzle wrote: Can people help me out here? If I bought a falchion for my imperial fists, would the rules and points translate to normal 40k or does horus heresy have any unique rules or different points costings? Same goes for Dorn as he was around long after the heresy to lead my army.
Currently the Falchion only has 30k rules. They're compatible with 40k if your opponent is willing to let you use it, but they're not officially part of 40k. Fairness-wise it certainly wouldn't be any worse than the broken stuff you can already take in 40k.
Was lucky enough to get to Salute the weekend. was only planning to pick up HH book 3 but in true hobby fashion had to get the some more Mechanicum stuff. Still haven't picked a Legion so mars it is for now
Managed to get a few minutes chatting to one of the forge world guys towards the end of the day which was very generous of him as those guys and girls were run of their feet all day. A lot of this stuff has been said elsewhere but id thought id put it here in case people haven't seen this stuff. Thanks again to the Forgeworld guys and the Salute staff for an awesome day.
Horus Heresy-
The guys were saying that the original plan was for Prospero to be next but that may change for a couple of reasons. Play testing has been complicated with the Prospero book as TS have been difficult to do as they won't to represent the legion properly (everyone a psyker, etc) but without making it as simple as the rules for say, Grey Knights. Plus the Adeptus Custodes and SoS rules have to be balanced to not make them too OTT and OP.
The other reason is a potential business one (fair enough. There not a charity) If they did Calth next that obviously brings in imperial Army. The guy was saying that FW isn't naive enough to think that people will pay out for all resin IA sized armies so the plastic range will be fully compatible. Thus FW will be able to say to the literally thousands of guard 40k players, "if the cost has put you off before, you have a ready made 30k army sat there already"
FW already has an extensive IG resin range already done and on the website. there will be specific Heresy era tanks and infantry to give a "great crusade feel" The other more, hobbyish reason was that it would allow people to play with 30k rules in a kinda great crusade scenario, playing a legion fighting a human empire using STC tech.
Multiple Models-
The plan is over the expanse of the the books (more on that below) is that there will be multiple versions of some characters. Horus on the battle barge, daemon primarchs, Khan on a bike etc. He did emphasise that this was the general idea and no firm plans existed.
Extent of books-
He brought up a good point, saying that FW considers this a ten year project, at minimum. given the current pace of two books per year (not guaranteed but what they are aiming at) thats potentially a twenty volume saga. Given that we are at book three and the three books we have confirmed as happening at some point, Calth, Prospero and a Mars book, that inside of six books they shall have-
15 outta of the 18 legions with only DA, BA and WS left.
Imperial Army
Adeptus Custodes
Sisters of Silence
Mechanicum
Dark Mechanicum
That leaves a whopping 14 books to expand upon. He was saying that individual legions would get expansions in terms of characters and units along the way plus other factions would come in along the way such as
Rogue Trader Militant- has been mentioned in all three books. Will be able to take other armies (AM, IA, Legions) as allies with special characters and certain Rogue Trader units to lead them.
Agents of emperor/warmaster- This has been mentioned in book one betrayal. He said this one was way in the future but would include the kinda things you could imagine assassins orders etc and would probably be more individual characters and units as allies rather then a army in its own right. I asked if Garro would be in there. Guy just smiled!! said that there were no specific plans but can't imagine that they wouldn't.
Im off to put those Secutors together in the sunshine
Awwww damnit, I was perfectly willing to pay FW through the nose for an all-resin Imperial Army force, it's a bloody shame they're bottling it. Krieg/Elysian-scaled Geno Chiliad, Byzant Janizars, Lucifer Blacks, Regnault Thorns, Ouranti Draks, Prospero Spireguard etc etc would have looked fantastic, and them making new Imperial Army models would have made it much more likely we were going to get some cool and unique formations and fighting styles - instead it looks like we'll be getting slight variations on Imperial Guard and Cadian plastics
Think of it from their perspective; the HH legions were a big untapped market for GW, and GW to be quite frank. With an all-resin Imperial Army at forgeworld prices, FW would be competing with itself regarding its Elysian and Death Korps lines, and their Cadian modifications.
The people who would buy an IA force are, more likely than not, already Death Korps or Elysian or other Guard players. Rather than drawing new people in, they're working with a largely pre-existant customer base, and doubtlessly some additional draw, but not like what we saw with the Legions. Offering conversion kits, special units/tanks is much more palatable to the existant Guard players, and by structuring it that way, they've got a much larger potential customer base.
Let the Guard players use their blobs of men, and only make them buy the new shiney makes a certain amount of sense. If we can infer anything from their product line, neither the hostile-environment Cadians or Elysians have done as well as Krieg; the lines have never been wholly completed, or offered the same variation as Krieg, so I bet FW is concerned another whole resin Guard army would face the same challenges.
I think the Cadians would do well for an Imperial Army force anyway. They all look like they're wearing a very standardized, mass-produced, and decently high-tech armor with standard weaponry. Just the sort of thing to be produced in massive quantities during the Great Crusade.
10 years? Jeez, with the best will in the world I hope that doesn't mean 10 years of FW releases being almost exclusively Heresy-based. I say that as a marine player who likes the variety some of the new kits give to a 40k force, but likes everyone to get some FW goodness for their chosen faction.
MajorStoffer wrote: Think of it from their perspective; the HH legions were a big untapped market for GW, and GW to be quite frank. With an all-resin Imperial Army at forgeworld prices, FW would be competing with itself regarding its Elysian and Death Korps lines, and their Cadian modifications.
The people who would buy an IA force are, more likely than not, already Death Korps or Elysian or other Guard players. Rather than drawing new people in, they're working with a largely pre-existant customer base, and doubtlessly some additional draw, but not like what we saw with the Legions. Offering conversion kits, special units/tanks is much more palatable to the existant Guard players, and by structuring it that way, they've got a much larger potential customer base.
Let the Guard players use their blobs of men, and only make them buy the new shiney makes a certain amount of sense. If we can infer anything from their product line, neither the hostile-environment Cadians or Elysians have done as well as Krieg; the lines have never been wholly completed, or offered the same variation as Krieg, so I bet FW is concerned another whole resin Guard army would face the same challenges.
I don't deny it's a logical course of action if your goal is to make money with the minimum of effort and risk, but I was hoping given the absolute reams of barely differentiated Legion products FW have been cranking out that they were committed to making the Heresy-era into its own thing, not just in terms of a ruleset but also in terms of having its own aesthetic. I also think that, while as I acknowledged it might be the "safe" path to profit, it's not necessarily the best path; the danger with going too far down the "don't compete with your own lines/it's bad if a customer buys product A instead of product B because it cannibalises sales" line of reasoning is that you take so much care to avoid losing potential sales of one of your products to another of your products that you end up losing potential sales of any of your products because your range doesn't offer people what they're looking for. GW made that mistake with Specialist Games - they were so concerned with the idea that someone might buy a Necromunda gang or a BFG fleet instead of a new 40K box that they took actions that were counterproductive; instead of someone buying a BFG box one month and a 40K box the next, they started buying a Firestorm Armada box one month and put in an order with Victoria Miniatures or Privateer Press the next, not just doubling the number of 40K they bought as GW had assumed. Offering up a distinct line of resin Imperial Army forces may indeed lead to some people buying them instead of DKoK or some other FW product, but it can just as easily lead to someone buying both in the long run where before they would just have bought the existing line, or to people who had no interest in the existing lines becoming new FW customers.
I have planned out incremental expenditure for the next three years for my Heresy-era Imperial Army project, I budgeted for an all-resin infantry force on the assumption we'd see unique and interesting Army regiments with interesting new weapons and ways of making war like those described in the HH novels; if FW aren't interested in making those models, I'm not just going to shrug and blow all that spending on a plastic Cadian(*boak*) or DKoK army, I'll look elsewhere and FW won't get my money at all. Now, I won't pretend that I'm a typical case, but I doubt I'm unique either.
Tannhauser42 wrote: I think the Cadians would do well for an Imperial Army force anyway. They all look like they're wearing a very standardized, mass-produced, and decently high-tech armor with standard weaponry. Just the sort of thing to be produced in massive quantities during the Great Crusade.
That's the thing though, if I wanted a standard mass-produced army of humans with lasguns, I'd collect 40K Cadians. I was hoping we'd see guys with a Moroccan/Turkish themed uniform fighting in formation with lascarbines and grav-pikes(Geno 52 Chiliad), or guys with psycho-reactive barbs that extrude from their carapace armour during combat(Regnault Thorns), or xeno-cavalry, or any number of other interesting and distinct forces. Plonking down a few platoons of decade-old plastic Cadians next to all the fantastic tanks, Mechanicum, and Legion units FW has/will produce for the Heresy-era just seems like a cop-out to me.
Its funny that out of the few non marine armies in the Horus Heresy books, FW is refusing to do as much to support one of the biggest. It didn't seem to matter to them that they were producing such large amount of redundancy with the marine stuff. Imperial Army in this era have a bit more unified feel to them aesthetically and access to some of the same tech as space marines. They'd need less than a twentieth the effort given to marines. A kit or two for the "Army" and some upgrade kits... then just whatever vehicles seem necessary. What seems proposed just seems lazy.
I don't ignore the fact there might not be as much demand, but I bet there is more demand for generic 30K Imperial army than there are for some of the random specialized legion specific units.
I wouldn't worry too much about how much love the Imp. Army will get. Worst case scenario, somebody else produces the parts to fill the demand if they won't do it.
I think conversion bits would be a good idea. Given what parts sell the best I'm sure they could expand on the range further. I know I would buy heaps of Prospero Spireguard despite having a significant IG army already.
Commander Cain wrote: I think conversion bits would be a good idea. Given what parts sell the best I'm sure they could expand on the range further. I know I would buy heaps of Prospero Spireguard despite having a significant IG army already.
That's kind of what I think they're aiming for. From the wording it seemed that they're not wanting to just do "Generic Imperial Army Riflemen" models, but they do want to do the more "elite" formations like the Prospero Spireguard or the Geno Cilliads, etc.
Trilogy 3: [Important Blood Angel Conflict] [Important Dark Angel conflict/return to Caliban] [Spot Fires/Various scenarios and important conflicts across all Legions]
Trilogy 4: Horus invades the Sol System. The start of the invasion of Terra. The end of the battle of Terra/Final showdown between E and H.
I get they want to make money, but if you stretch things out for too long you end up like Black Library, releasing limited edition novellas and pointless filler more often than they put out actual HH plot books.
I get they want to make money, but if you stretch things out for too long you end up like Black Library, releasing limited edition novellas and pointless filler more often than they put out actual HH plot books.
It worked for Peter Jackson, and look how that is working out for The Hobbit miniature sales.
I get they want to make money, but if you stretch things out for too long you end up like Black Library, releasing limited edition novellas and pointless filler more often than they put out actual HH plot books.
They can easily squeeze out a few more just taking into account edition changes over the period of the release. Probably smaller books, like the ones included in the HH3 limited edition, but every 4 years or so they will need to put out an updated "Forces of the Loyalist Legions" "Forces of the Chaos Legions" "Forces of the Mechanicum" "Forces of the Imperium"
Trilogy 3: [Important Blood Angel Conflict]
[Important Dark Angel conflict/return to Caliban]
[Spot Fires/Various scenarios and important conflicts across all Legions]
Trilogy 4: Horus invades the Sol System.
The start of the invasion of Terra.
The end of the battle of Terra/Final showdown between E and H.
I get they want to make money, but if you stretch things out for too long you end up like Black Library, releasing limited edition novellas and pointless filler more often than they put out actual HH plot books.
Well we're already into the 3rd year... That's 4 more years with what you've listed... Leaving 3 years or 6 books of their time unaccounted for. I know it's been floated that they might cover Chaos' retreat into the eye of terror and the Space Wolf pursuit.
The notion of it being a 10 year plan was something they said originally after book 2 but before they decided to step it upto 2 books a year. There thus leaves room for interpretation and a need for clarification. 3 more trilogies following book 2's release made sense. The step up in releases was that always part of the plan? If yes than the unknown books were part of this plan and likely just as good. If not, is it still a ten year plan or a ten year plan run at double the pace? As long as the quality is there I don't think it matters.
-Loki- wrote: Hmm. Regarding the Tyranid they showed, it actually looks fairly tall. Knight equivalent bug?
I think it's more Hive Tyrant-sized, maybe slightly taller.
Knowing FW Nid rules though, it'll probably be a T5 infantry unit.
Compare the size of the name tag next to the legs to the Knight Lancer. The legs look only a little smaller than the Lancers legs, and the Lancer taller than the regular Knight. So I'm guessing Knight sized.
As for rules, they seem to be a bit better writing rules for gargantuan Tyranids, which if this is Knight sized, it surely will be gargantuan. Not much better, but their main weakness is how dumb D weapons are.
Trilogy 3: [Important Blood Angel Conflict]
[Important Dark Angel conflict/return to Caliban]
[Spot Fires/Various scenarios and important conflicts across all Legions]
Trilogy 4: Horus invades the Sol System.
The start of the invasion of Terra.
The end of the battle of Terra/Final showdown between E and H.
I get they want to make money, but if you stretch things out for too long you end up like Black Library, releasing limited edition novellas and pointless filler more often than they put out actual HH plot books.
I'd personally be disappointed if the battle of terra was only spread over 2 books. So so so much went on there with so many different legions and other forces in totally different places of the planet.
) that the first generations of the XX Legion where a lot larger than their younger bretheren and by the time of the Heresy those that survive have risen to the higher ranks of the Legions echelons like Captains, Laernan & Effrit specialists and routinely pose as the Primarch when needed.
Exalted
, they changed the blocking software, now I have to wait until I get home to read.
