Midnightdeathblade wrote: Lets hope this idiotic idea of a "Launch Box" gets flushed down the toilet and GW actually decides how to scale their models.
Whatever is in the box contents of the new set, it desperately needs to available on a constant basis. As it stands right now it is ridiculously difficult to get anyone into 30k because there's absolutely no easy buy in. Even if it's all the stuff in the leaked pics and costs $250+, it's basically an entire 1,000+ starter army in plastic.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Imagine if Calth, Prospero, and this new set were all available at the same time. If only.
The Mk4 and the upcoming Mk6 are not compatible. Those new Mk6 will be rescaled like the CSM...
Not sure about the Mk3.
What isn't compatible between the new and old CSM? Other than the bodies and legs being less modular on the newer kit, the "scale" of the shoulder pads and heads haven't changed and can still be swapped between kits. Most of the arms, from what I can recall, can also be swapped? I don't have the kits in front of me though.
Even with Primaris marines the arms, heads and shoulder pads remained mostly the same "scale" as their older counterparts. It isn't scaling that makes Primaris "incompatible" with older marines but the less-modular bodies. While the Primaris line definitely increases the overall size and scale of the Marines, the newer Chaos kits are more subtle, rationalising some of the proportions of the models. Hence why specific components like heads, pauldrons and arms stay pretty much the same size and scale while the overall height increases.
So the upcoming Mk6 will be made one of two ways: Either completely modular like older kits, like the Mk4 and Mk3, etc, OR they will more closely resemble the newer Chaos and Primaris models, with the combined torso and leg components, with a slight height increase, though not to the extent of the Primaris.
Regardless of which route they take with the Mk6 kit, many of the individual components will be absolutely compatible with the prior kits, and since the "scale" differences come down to subtle reposing and lengthening of some of the leg and torso sections, I don't see how they'll look radically out of scale as compared to the most recent Heresy plastics?
It's such a boring argument for people to be having at this point. For someone whose first Space Marine kit was the RTB01 beaky set back in the 1980s, I've had to endure decades of "scale creep" with my Marines. Except, I haven't. Because for that to have occurred you'd need to prove that there was ever a standardised scale for Marines in the first place. Changes in overall height in the ranges have occurred in-line with relative increases in both detail and to better fit the more relative proportions of the figures.
I don't think anyone can make the argument that the progressively larger marines we've seen over the last few years don't look aesthetically better than their predecessors, so those relative increases in height have served a purpose in terms of being able to turn out better miniatures. But it does make me wonder what the reaction might have been if the designers had instead reduced the relative sizes of the heads and shoulder pads in order to achieve the same aesthetic goal...? It might just be me, but I think the comparison would look far more absurd if you had marines with different sized heads rather than a few millimetres of difference in height.
So, nah, the potential height difference between the Mk6 and previous kits is going to be so negligible as to be unnoticeable. It isn't something to get upset about.
Alan Bligh planned to expand the Age of Darkness Setting from Horus Heresy later into the Great Crusades. There was a statement by him in the Past about future Plans at FW.
Crablezworth wrote: If they make the black books irrelevant, they never understood 30k to begin with. I don't play it for the fluff either, I play it because it's a much better game than what 40k has become. I don't know why they'd be in such a hurry to ruin it.
Subjective. The armies may be better balanced(may) but 7th edition is a trashfire.
Pacific wrote: Then I think the writer letter their imagination get away with them. Xenos and Great Crusade armies and the like? Nah.
The original plan was to do the Siege, the Scouring then go back to the Great Crusade (and their was a FAQ about using existing Xenos codex IIRC).
At least as long as Alan Bligh was alive the plan was never to include Xenos as it was fundamentally a story of brother against brother and xenos would be a distraction from that. With regards to the Great Crusade, that was never part of the plan - in Alans words it was an option on the table that they could consider at a later date, but they had enough content to keep them busy on the Heresy, Siege of Terra, and Scouring for decades.
The only FAQ on the subject i know of is this:
Q: Are the armies and units in the Horus Heresy books by Forge World meant to be used in
games against regular Codex armies, such as say Grey Knights or Orks?
A: While Forge World’s on-going range of Horus Heresy books and their game content are all
designed to use and be compatible with the Warhammer 40,000 rules, they have been fine-tuned and
focused on playing battles in the milieu of the Horus Heresy rather than in conjunction with the
Codexes representing warfare in the 41st Millennium, and this will remain the case.
Designer’s Note: This means that while you are, of course, free to have fun and play games against
your friends using any forces you like, and Horus Heresy forces will be broadly ‘a fair fight’ with
Codex forces of the same scale, certain rules anomalies and inconsistencies may be thrown up that
you have to deal with, although these should not seriously affect the game in most cases. (For
example, certain units, such as those with the Stubborn special rule are at a premium costing in
Horus Heresy armies over their regular Codex counterparts, owing to the results of play testing
within their own sphere.)
In terms of using Lords of War and the Primarchs, however, these are definitely not intended to be
used in standard Warhammer 40,000 games, but only in games where both sides use the Age of
Darkness Force Organisation chart, and the specific provisions within, and in games of 2,000 points
or greater.
Designer’s Note: So if, for example, you wanted to play a battle representing a narrative where the
Sons of Horus Legion fought Orks or Eldar during the Great Crusade, you could quite easily use
those xenos forces’ Warhammer 40,000 Codexes (possibly house-ruled to accommodate larger
squads) to proxy for their Heresy-era counterparts. In this case, however, both sides should be using
the Age of Darkness Force Organisation chart, with the army’s own Apocalypse level units and flyers
available as Lords of War entries following the guidelines found on page 184 of Betrayal.
While it doesn't say you can't play Xenos v 30k, it doesn't really give you the tools needed to actually do so, noting specifically that there will be rules anomalies and inconsistencies that will come up by doing so and basically telling the players to figure out how to handle that themselves with house rulings. It also makes pretty clear that 30k and 40k armies are balanced and costed differently, etc. though their stance is that battles between the two will be "fair".
Pacific wrote: Then I think the writer letter their imagination get away with them. Xenos and Great Crusade armies and the like? Nah.
The original plan was to do the Siege, the Scouring then go back to the Great Crusade (and their was a FAQ about using existing Xenos codex IIRC).
Plan from whom do you mind me asking?
The releases in 40k are generally Marine-centric (this is an annoyance to some going back to Rogue Trader days) and there are so many complaints that GW aren't keeping on top of Xenos releases for their flagship product. How on earth would they manage with whole other ranges of Xenos (including, presumably, completely new lines of aliens) for a spin-off game that is already seen as a Specialist Game? I find it very hard to believe.
I think I must have misremembered then - I do recall the bit about larger squads but thought there was more to it than it (or I'm thinking of fan rules).
From what I remember (which might be wrong) Alan Bligh was asked about Thunder Warriors and the answer was they might go back and do the earlier stuff once the HH was done.
Pacific wrote: Then I think the writer letter their imagination get away with them. Xenos and Great Crusade armies and the like? Nah.
The original plan was to do the Siege, the Scouring then go back to the Great Crusade (and their was a FAQ about using existing Xenos codex IIRC).
I think that plan was hatched back when they thought they'd knock out two books a year. At this rate, that plan would wrap up in about 2035. If I was to believe anything from that set of stuff, it's that GW realized that the black book approach isn't viable long-term, at least as-is.
It was indeed, very, very sad. Think this is the case for anyone passing away at that age, but his work meant a great deal to a lot of people, and in the same way as musicians or artists dying before their time, you wonder what other creative efforts have gone unwritten.
beast_gts wrote: I think I must have misremembered then - I do recall the bit about larger squads but thought there was more to it than it (or I'm thinking of fan rules).
From what I remember (which might be wrong) Alan Bligh was asked about Thunder Warriors and the answer was they might go back and do the earlier stuff once the HH was done.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Imagine if Calth, Prospero, and this new set were all available at the same time. If only.
The Mk4 and the upcoming Mk6 are not compatible. Those new Mk6 will be rescaled like the CSM...
Not sure about the Mk3.
What, because the new Mk6 look a bit larger scaled than the Mk3 and Mk4? There are multiple companies out there already making "truescale" power armor and those bodies all work well with the current sets of plastic arms, shoulders, heads and backpacks.
Subjective. The armies may be better balanced(may) but 7th edition is a trashfire.
Also subjective. There are lots of people who prefer the current Age of Darkness rules over 8th/9th.
Crablezworth wrote: If they make the black books irrelevant, they never understood 30k to begin with. I don't play it for the fluff either, I play it because it's a much better game than what 40k has become. I don't know why they'd be in such a hurry to ruin it.
Subjective. The armies may be better balanced(may) but 7th edition is a trashfire.
You're right, we could improve it by having grots stop baneblades in their tracks, tack on a really bad ap system and eliminate unit types all together and just have every other model fly because reasons. 30k really need all their weapons to be RND nightmares with D6 shots and AP. The real tragedy of 7th and 30k is my flyers can't assault bunkers.
7th (30k) is far better than the collectable card game with models that is 40k now. I really don't think 30k will be improved by having every battle be on planet giant L's in the middle of the board or having every objective be an giant circle with advertisements on it.
Yeah, again it was less "the plan" and more "this is an option we might or could pursue one day in the future". If HH had the budget and staffing of 40k proper it would have happened, but the way FW was going even before his passing meant it probably would have been a long long time before they got around to it.
You're right, we could improve it by having grots stop baneblades in their tracks, tack on a really bad ap system and eliminate unit types all together and just have every other model fly because reasons. 30k really need all their weapons to be RND nightmares with D6 shots and AP. The real tragedy of 7th and 30k is my flyers can't assault bunkers.
Lol. You make it sound like this old meme personified.
It just needs a suitably metal guitar riff and an announcement video by the Flashgitz guys on youtube.
As I said earlier in the thread...both systems are pretty terrible wargames IMO with very different issues. It's a douche vs. a turd sandwich. People are certainly allowed their preferences in that scenario and I have mine, but it's very hard for me to understand anyone waxing poetic about either. It's about the pretty miniatures.
gorgon wrote: As I said earlier in the thread...both systems are pretty terrible wargames IMO with very different issues. It's a douche vs. a turd sandwich. People are certainly allowed their preferences in that scenario and I have mine, but it's very hard for me to understand anyone waxing poetic about either. It's about the pretty miniatures.
While I wont say either game is a bad system, switching to Star Wars Legions, Armada, and ASOIAF has shown me how much room for improvement GW games have.
While it doesn't say you can't play Xenos v 30k, it doesn't really give you the tools needed to actually do so, noting specifically that there will be rules anomalies and inconsistencies that will come up by doing so and basically telling the players to figure out how to handle that themselves with house rulings. It also makes pretty clear that 30k and 40k armies are balanced and costed differently, etc. though their stance is that battles between the two will be "fair".
It really didn't need to provide any tools. You could just take the 30k army list and pit it against any 40k book. The core rules were identical after all. (And hardly perfectly consistent even within 40k.)
Obviously the 30k guys thought that every guy in a squad could use a meta bomb while the 40k guys didn't, but you used the 40k errata regardless.
Yes, the 30k armies were balanced differently, promoting big squads for example, but the balance between armies in 40k proper was easily worse anyway.
Rihgu wrote: Saw this on a facebook group. They ordered Maloghurst, got what appears to be a new SoH model instead. Or at least, that's the story they give.
New Praetor (Volkite & Power Fist)? Although the base & cape seem a bit fancy for that.
It's not Tybalt Marr, he comes with a sword and bolt pistol. This model is almost certainly a generic PA Praetor; the IF already had their PA/Termi Praetors revealed and the SoH are the other half of the upcoming box + their command set is horrifically scaled.
Rihgu wrote: Saw this on a facebook group. They ordered Maloghurst, got what appears to be a new SoH model instead. Or at least, that's the story they give.
New Praetor (Volkite & Power Fist)? Although the base & cape seem a bit fancy for that.
The new IF Praetors have fancy capes & bases as well.
Based on how them thighs and legs are looking, this new model is also upscaled. I'd say this is pretty much a confirmation at this point and not just flukes.
Those reddit rumours sound wild. We already got hints about GW doing something big with HH, I'm guessing that part is true. So HH will become a new GW Specialist Game, and plastic kits will be forthcoming for the bread & butter units. However, I'd wager the legion specific stuff (including legion rhino doors etc) will all still remain at FW, unless GW has decided to kill off FW altogether.
It'd make a lot of sense for GW to make generic plastic HH kits without any legion symbols + transfers for them, and leave it up to FW for supplying extra bling for those who want to invest further into their legion. They can also sell these generic HH kits to 40K Marine players who hate Primaris, for example. Its a win/win for both 30K & 40K as far as models go..
Ruleswise however, these news sound very bad. GWification of the HH ruleset will mean "eternal war" with ever changing rules, FAQs and bloat.. And more books to carry to your games every 3 months
Midnightdeathblade wrote: *reaches into box containing unreleased models that are placed DIRECTLY next to a box containing released models for the same faction*
I've gotten mislabeled blisters from them a few times. I guess they either mis-load the machine and/or the packing person isn't a fan and doesn't know the difference - at least they're both SoH!
zedmeister wrote: Could also be a viral attempt. It's suspected they did the same with the Ahriman plastic way back when and GW have done it once or twice in the past.
Or the first Primaris "leak" - 2-3 Months before 7th Edition.
Wonder if those spreading Rumors/Wishlisting on Socials is also Part of something.
Rihgu wrote: Saw this on a facebook group. They ordered Maloghurst, got what appears to be a new SoH model instead. Or at least, that's the story they give.
New Praetor (Volkite & Power Fist)? Although the base & cape seem a bit fancy for that.
The new IF Praetors have fancy capes & bases as well.
However, I'd wager the legion specific stuff (including legion rhino doors etc) will all still remain at FW, unless GW has decided to kill off FW altogether.
I can't see Games Workshop doing this anytime soon. FW still produces a ton of things for Heresy, as well as Necromunda, Titanicus, and Middle Earth. They'd have to find a way to transition hundreds of kits and upgrade packs into plastic first.
Nice! I love it that Mr Bligh's legacy will be venerated like this. I can only hope GW doesn't twist anything too much from the original vision..
But that new mini leak shows what we can expect from the firstborn marine resculpts - new legs. Pretty much everything else will remain as is.
I don't see how GW expects to be selling any more firstborn marine kits until the resculpts have been released. I'm certainly not going to be buying any until these new kits are out. In fact, I should start offloading my current firstborn minis while they still have some remblance of resale value..
Instead of "little birds twittering" it sure would be great if Games Workshop themselves gave us all of this information in a big Preview Day or something. It would cut down on endless speculation and rumormongering and leave everyone with actual information directly from the source.
Mr. Grey wrote: Instead of "little birds twittering" it sure would be great if Games Workshop themselves gave us all of this information in a big Preview Day or something. It would cut down on endless speculation and rumormongering and leave everyone with actual information directly from the source.
At this point, I assume that the rumours are coming from GW. The speculation gets people excited and primed to pay attention when GW finally makes an announcement. It's easy and cheap hype building.
Sounds like a lot more BS. Why are you people buying into this?
Half of these rumors conflict with what he posted previously. Sounds a lot like someone called him out on his previous statements being inconsistent with rumors from better sources and hes backtracking to bring it in line with that.
chaos0xomega wrote: Sounds like a lot more BS. Why are you people buying into this?
Half of these rumors conflict with what he posted previously. Sounds a lot like someone called him out on his previous statements being inconsistent with rumors from better sources and hes backtracking to bring it in line with that.
This was my thought as well. Either that or whoever is spreading these got a power trip off all the attention they're getting and decided to spout a few more things that sound vaguely plausible.
Edit: There are several of these that spark my suspicion:
GW Main now writing Horus Heresy rules? GW Main is busy pumping out 9th edition codex and supplement books, and probably already planning for 10th. They don't have time to write 30k rulebooks in addition to all of that.
Missing and new characters in plastic? So far every single HH character has been resin with the exception of Ahriman, who came in Burning of Prospero... and still hasn't been released yet on his own. There is zero indication that 30K characters from here on out will be plastic.
"freeing capacities for more Specialist Games and Warhammer The Old World" - adding more people to the Horus Heresy design team accomplishes the exact same thing, why would they move the rules writing to GW Main who are already busy with both 40k and AoS. What does "more Specialist Games" mean? I don't see GW adding more specialist games at the moment, feels like they already have a full plate between Necromunda, Middle Earth, Titanicus, Blood Bowl, and Aeronautica.
The Alan Bligh note just seems weird. I get that he really loved the setting, but it's been four years since he passed away. Adding this note in seems more of an appeasing nod to everyone who keeps saying that 30k really floundered after his death.
I think the Alan Bligh note was there to try to build some legitimacy and get those "feels good man" vibes going. Seems to have worked based on tauists response
infinite_array wrote: Size comparison of the "leaked" SoH mini and the current MkIII marines:
The new proportions looks so much better! It's scary how much difference a new set of legs makes.
I'd say this new sculpt wouldn't look too shabby even next to a Primaris model.
GW is simply daft if they will not be resculpting their iconinc firstborn marines to these new proportions. Now that everyone ha sbought their Primaris, its time to milk the marine players.. again! hehehe
The problem with endless revision paid for by the end user is it creates terrible games and terrible incentives. There's something nice about the idea of a black book that has to stand the test of time. So this reference to "oh you can like totally use the black books with the new rules, but some will be replaced" has me rolling my eyes a bit. Adding content in newer smaller volumes is one thing but that can be done without messing with what's already out there, and this is the problem of "new rules", It doesn't need new core rules and I certainly don't trust GW to handle that either way.
Until the staff at my local GW are chatting about it with me I'm not believing any of these rumours. Might be a bit too late at that point but they're not stupid and know my group is heavy into 30k and will likely get it from them.
Gert wrote: Until the staff at my local GW are chatting about it with me I'm not believing any of these rumours. Might be a bit too late at that point but they're not stupid and know my group is heavy into 30k and will likely get it from them.
Redshirts know as much as you or I. There's a reason "my friendly GW staffer told me..." is widely mocked as a rumour source.
*Ahem* they wear black shirts thank you very much.
Plus they've not steered me wrong so far. For example, I was planning on expanding my R&H force I was told to wait for an upcoming box. The Blackstone adversary box with a bunch of the Traitor Guard stuff was released about a month later so I didn't waste my money on stuff I didn't need.
Um, I would avoid calling them that.
"Blackshirts" was the name given to members of the British Union of Fascists aka the British version of the Nazi Party.
Gert wrote: Um, I would avoid calling them that.
"Blackshirts" was the name given to members of the British Union of Fascists aka the British version of the Nazi Party.
Also the Fascist Party in Italy and an Elite Unit of Oliver Cromwell in thr English Civil Wars.
I dont know what to make of the exact details of these rumours, but I consider it very plausible that GW will take over running HH from FW. And we already know that a new launch box is coming, and that was already estimated to arrive in Q4 2021 before these latest Reddit rumours were posted.
And now, seeing this new model with better proportions, I'm inclined to believe that recuts of at least some firstborn kits will be coming in the near future.
Gert wrote: Um, I would avoid calling them that.
"Blackshirts" was the name given to members of the British Union of Fascists aka the British version of the Nazi Party.
That MKIII plastic looks like garbage next to that SOH. I honestly hope they rescale the plastics they have, probably not gonna happen but one could hope.
I like truescaled minis and always have but that fig seems a bit too lanky though I like the hand and let proportions. If he w as a 3d model, I'd resize the xy plane to 105-110% to give him more heft uniformly.
I definitely wouldn't say they are true-scale. True-scale marines end up being as big as primaris if not bigger most the time. GW seem obsessed with making standard humans as tall as firstborn marines these days, so a little height bump is welcome as long as they don't match or exceed Primaris. I quite like the idea of Primaris being slightly bigger. He may be a tad lanky though I agree. Not nearly as bad as the pre-plastic MKIV kits though.
warboss wrote: I like truescaled minis and always have but that fig seems a bit too lanky though I like the hand and let proportions. If he w as a 3d model, I'd resize the xy plane to 105-110% to give him more heft uniformly.
The upper legs seems too thin; especially for what should be a very muscular transhumance wearing an under-suit under thick armor.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote: I definitely wouldn't say they are true-scale. True-scale marines end up being as big as primaris if not bigger most the time. GW seem obsessed with making standard humans as tall as firstborn marines these days, so a little height bump is welcome as long as they don't match or exceed Primaris. I quite like the idea of Primaris being slightly bigger. He may be a tad lanky though I agree. Not nearly as bad as the pre-plastic MKIV kits though.
I agree with you. The redesigned CSM seem the sweet spot - taller, but not as tall as Primaris, and still have a menacing bulk to them. Giving old style/Firstborn longer thighs and an abdomen (finally) did wonders.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: I definitely wouldn't say they are true-scale. True-scale marines end up being as big as primaris if not bigger most the time. GW seem obsessed with making standard humans as tall as firstborn marines these days, so a little height bump is welcome as long as they don't match or exceed Primaris. I quite like the idea of Primaris being slightly bigger. He may be a tad lanky though I agree. Not nearly as bad as the pre-plastic MKIV kits though.
Well to be true scale first born needs to be head shorter than primaris
Midnightdeathblade wrote: I definitely wouldn't say they are true-scale. True-scale marines end up being as big as primaris if not bigger most the time. GW seem obsessed with making standard humans as tall as firstborn marines these days, so a little height bump is welcome as long as they don't match or exceed Primaris. I quite like the idea of Primaris being slightly bigger. He may be a tad lanky though I agree. Not nearly as bad as the pre-plastic MKIV kits though.
Well to be true scale first born needs to be head shorter than primaris
infinite_array wrote: Size comparison of the "leaked" SoH mini and the current MkIII marines:
Spoiler:
The new proportions looks so much better! It's scary how much difference a new set of legs makes.
I'd say this new sculpt wouldn't look too shabby even next to a Primaris model.
Looks like the new model uses GW's new seven-heads-tall scale instead of the old "heroic" six. Actual tall humans are around eight heads. Newer GW models like this one have smaller heads so they won't be too much taller than the old ones. The way the models in the picture are arranged (newer on a taller base and a little further back) makes the height difference seem larger than it is.
Wow, the old plastic minis look like crap compared to the proportions of the new ones if that not-Maloghurst mini is anythign to go by. Those proportions are so much nicer (IMO). Can you mix them together? Yeah, but I wouldn't want to.
chaos0xomega wrote: Wow, the old plastic minis look like crap compared to the proportions of the new ones if that not-Maloghurst mini is anythign to go by. Those proportions are so much nicer (IMO). Can you mix them together? Yeah, but I wouldn't want to.
I mean that's the reaction the primaris caused in many people. I really couldn't look at the old marines after that.
chaos0xomega wrote: Wow, the old plastic minis look like crap compared to the proportions of the new ones if that not-Maloghurst mini is anythign to go by. Those proportions are so much nicer (IMO). Can you mix them together? Yeah, but I wouldn't want to.
I mean that's the reaction the primaris caused in many people. I really couldn't look at the old marines after that.
Personally I still find primaris a little unsettlingly off in proportions, they're just too human-in-power-armour, not astartes enough.
The deathwatch/new chaos marines scale is the sweet spot, I feel.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Primaris are too lanky, given how much Power Armour they're wearing
Exactly. The inhumanly broad build of an astartes comboed with the thickness of the armour and the gigantic pauldroncore aesthetic of 40k makes the Primaris look like an unaugmented human. One that's taller than a space marine by half a head, perhaps, but proportionately not like a space marine regardless.
Anyhow yeah, hoping for plastic Mark 2 down the line somewhere, I'd love to get my hands on some of that.
Crablezworth wrote: If they make the black books irrelevant, they never understood 30k to begin with. I don't play it for the fluff either, I play it because it's a much better game than what 40k has become. I don't know why they'd be in such a hurry to ruin it.
Subjective. The armies may be better balanced(may) but 7th edition is a trashfire.
You're right, we could improve it by having grots stop baneblades in their tracks, tack on a really bad ap system and eliminate unit types all together and just have every other model fly because reasons. 30k really need all their weapons to be RND nightmares with D6 shots and AP. The real tragedy of 7th and 30k is my flyers can't assault bunkers.
7th (30k) is far better than the collectable card game with models that is 40k now.
Spoiler:
I really don't think 30k will be improved by having every battle be on planet giant L's in the middle of the board or having every objective be an giant circle with advertisements on it.
Almost broke my exalt button on this one.
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Albertorius wrote: Proportions wise, I like it very much, but the marine inside must be a stick figure to fit inside those legs.
I suppose that some marines are thinner than others. Some taller. Some with more bling… I like that these can be used together. I will never own a restartes.
I like the old one better. If with the details of the newer model, then best. The rumours posted earlier from reddit claim that upgrade sprues will remain more or less compatible.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Primaris are too lanky, given how much Power Armour they're wearing
But thats has always happened to marines. Have you see any terminator models, being the basic terminators the worst ones? Those are legs of a starving children.
chaos0xomega wrote: Wow, the old plastic minis look like crap compared to the proportions of the new ones if that not-Maloghurst mini is anythign to go by. Those proportions are so much nicer (IMO). Can you mix them together? Yeah, but I wouldn't want to.
That new mini actually returns to the proportions of the resin armor marks.
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But let's not pretend that ANY of these models have anything resembling real human proportions. They're all ridiculously distorted. The leg armor probably isn't that skinny if you're talking about a being 8 heads tall, even a muscular one.
BREAKING NEWS sur l'horus heresy (à prendre avec des pincettes, mais si c'est vrai, c'est dingue !)
"New "Edition" in Nov 2021
GW will overtake Horus Heresy as a "new" System from FW Own Ruleset like the last one from FW, not a 9th Edition 40k adaption like many guess
Many new Plastic Sets are planned to replace FW Resin Models which will be also useful with 40k Armies
GW will overtake the Decals for all 18 Legions, Characteres and very Legion specific Stuff remains with FW As a new Main System, Horus Heresy Story will expanded with Themed Expansions like the "Warzone" Books in 40k - the reboot beginns with the Battle for the Sol System, later they will revisit earlier "Warzones" like Istvaan III, Istvaan V, Prospero, Tallarn ect. with focus on certain Factions
Warzone Expansions replace the "Black Books" permanently
Horus Heresy is planned over many Years and will also Expanded into a "Age of Darkness" Game with multiple Setting, including the Scourge or the Great Crusade (see The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit as "Middleearth" SBG
That's just the same as the other rumours but in French.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's just reposting from Reddit/Twitter/wherever the original rumour came from.
It ticks far too many "Wow this would be really cool" boxes IMO for it to be true.
Hate to be cynical but GW hasn't exactly been kind to Heresy, well, ever.
That's only if 30k is made a "main game". It was in the last annual report that GW called it a main system but both before and after that report, it sure didn't feel like it.
I'm sure 30k will be handled like ME:SBG, plastic kits from GW but only online, rules from GW but not really, and anything not in core books from FW. I'm not saying that's a bad thing but ME:SBG is not what I would consider a main system.
Between the Twisted and Mal, it's great to see the SoH getting some FW love. As one of the first HH model ranges, they definitely are showing their age (except Horus, who remains one of the top primarch models imo).
If only I could justify using him that Praetor in 40k. But SoH are either dead or Black Legion-ed, so having an army of them would be like having a succesor chapter of Space Wolves, Pre-Primaris.
Edit: Actually, the True Sons are still around, as far as I'm aware. Hmm...
Hate to be cynical but GW hasn't exactly been kind to Heresy, well, ever.
Um... they started it, released great (though expensive) books and lots of models, upgrade kits, special units for the legions, primarchs, Mechanicum, other Imperial forces, two board games with plastic models... Sure, it has been a kinda lean period since then, but what exactly is your definition of 'kind' and 'ever'?
There were already extensive Heresy fan-rules and at least one prominent UK wargamer (TemplarCrusade01) running a Horus Heresy campaign spanning the whole war before FW released Betrayal. Started it? No. Started an official version to make money off of an already existing fanbase? Yes.
released great (though expensive) books
Expensive undersells it a bit. It took until Extermination for a Codex-style army list to be released for 30k, that's 3 books at £80 apiece for basic units.
and lots of models,
A large chunk of the Heresy range was simply previous products ported over from 40k when they were released for the Badab War.
upgrade kits, special units for the legions, primarchs, Mechanicum, other Imperial forces,
This sort of thing wasn't unusual for FW though. Imperial Armour was a constant source of characters, special units and entire armies. Death Korps, Exodites, Elysians, Chaos Dwarves, Renegades and Heretics, Red Scorpions, Astral Claws, Minotaurs, even the Exalted Daemons. Has the quality got better? Sure but let's not pretend FW was doing anything new.
two board games with plastic models...
Both of which were amazing buy-in points for 30k, both of which got dropped never to return far too soon after their release.
Sure, it has been a kinda lean period since then, but what exactly is your definition of 'kind' and 'ever'?
Lean is putting it mildly. 30k hasn't had a general FAQ since 2019, not because it doesn't need it but because there's nobody to do it which brings me to my next point. The 30k team was originally one man, Alan Bligh, and despite his insurmountable love for the Heresy, he couldn't hold an entire game up by himself. When Alan passed away FW hired two people to replace him, and again despite having a huge love for the setting and game, two people just isn't enough to hold up a game that is supposedly a "main system".
Heresy has always been treated as "that subgame to 40k" that got quite popular but has never had the support to capitalise on that popularity. When New-cromunda did really well it actually got support from main GW, FW, and even WD and has continued to do well since then releasing some stellar new kits into the GW range. That's the kind of support I want for 30k and it just doesn't get it. It took nearly a decade just to get the rules for all the Legions who are the main army of the entire game.
Slinky wrote: I was just looking at FW, planning out my next Imperial Fist purchases.
Rogal Dorn seems to be "No longer available", hopefully that is a slip of the keyboard and he should be "Temp out of stock"?
Also, are the new IF Praetors not released yet?
First the IF Praetors are not realsed, and second FW has a weird habbit of making things "No longer avalible" instead of "Temp. out of stock" when they make something unavalible for a while.
Slinky wrote: I was just looking at FW, planning out my next Imperial Fist purchases.
Rogal Dorn seems to be "No longer available", hopefully that is a slip of the keyboard and he should be "Temp out of stock"?
Also, are the new IF Praetors not released yet?
According to FW when I emailed them my concerns, "Sold Out" doesn't always mean "Sold Out". They didn't clarify much further which kits would be coming back, just that they're doing some 'updating'.
Throwing some fuel on the rumours - "Horus Heresy" is now listed under "Warhammer Games" at the bottom of the main site (although the link goes to FW):
beast_gts wrote: Throwing some fuel on the rumours - "Horus Heresy" is now listed under "Warhammer Games" at the bottom of the main site (although the link goes to FW):
I think that might’ve been the case for quite a while? I remember people mentioning something like that on Facebook a while ago.
beast_gts wrote: Throwing some fuel on the rumours - "Horus Heresy" is now listed under "Warhammer Games" at the bottom of the main site (although the link goes to FW):
I think that might’ve been the case for quite a while? I remember people mentioning something like that on Facebook a while ago.
It's been appearing & disappearing along the top of the page for a while IIRC, but this is the first time it's been at the bottom (unless I've been a blind idiot!).
beast_gts wrote: Throwing some fuel on the rumours - "Horus Heresy" is now listed under "Warhammer Games" at the bottom of the main site (although the link goes to FW):
I think that might’ve been the case for quite a while? I remember people mentioning something like that on Facebook a while ago.
It's been appearing & disappearing along the top of the page for a while IIRC, but this is the first time it's been at the bottom (unless I've been a blind idiot!).
As a note, there's been some reports of GW's instore order points allowing for you to purchase gift vouchers to FW and BL. They 404 you out of being able to, but purportedly the option's there.
Gert wrote: Until the staff at my local GW are chatting about it with me I'm not believing any of these rumours. Might be a bit too late at that point but they're not stupid and know my group is heavy into 30k and will likely get it from them.
Redshirts know as much as you or I. There's a reason "my friendly GW staffer told me..." is widely mocked as a rumour source.
Amen to this. I still remember talking to one of the former employees at my local GW; I was commenting on needing to sell off my Orks so I can have a little extra cash to throw at plastic Sisters whenever they finally got an update, to which he informed me that I should give up on Sisters because the Orks were going to get new stuff and the Sisters weren't going to be updated for a loooooooong time.
And then like 3 months later GW started teasing plastic sisters, and I laughed.
I was wondering if the guy who got the model had the shoulder pads on the intended way, but I guess not (not that it matters lol)
Shame they didn't make a terminator praetor (unless they're not showing it off because only the power armor one got leaked)
I thought he'd look more like this guy, but it makes sense to put him in the more common SoH scheme
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: Good to see they smoothed out the 3d printing lines on the copy they used for their promotional model.
If only they did that on the master they used to make the mould...
It's pretty laughable that on the one hand, they market their forgeworld stuff as premium at the same time as demonising 3D printing in The Hobby™, yet when you pay the exorbitant prices they charge for their resin casts, you still end up with 3D printing artifacts.
Even more laughable is the people on Instagram buying into the narrative from GW about the quality of 3D prints while willfully ignoring that noted above.
Doesn't this effectively confirm the rumours we've been hearing?
Not really since that's just GW speak for "We aren't telling you when this is getting released because we don't want you not spending money in the meantime". That or they legit don't know yet cos Covid and Brexit and stuff.
Doesn't this effectively confirm the rumours we've been hearing?
Not really since that's just GW speak for "We aren't telling you when this is getting released because we don't want you not spending money in the meantime". That or they legit don't know yet cos Covid and Brexit and stuff.
I was more thinking their mention of 'Age of Darkness' which we've heard bandied around a lot for the new HH set.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: Good to see they smoothed out the 3d printing lines on the copy they used for their promotional model.
If only they did that on the master they used to make the mould...
It's pretty laughable that on the one hand, they market their forgeworld stuff as premium at the same time as demonising 3D printing in The Hobby™, yet when you pay the exorbitant prices they charge for their resin casts, you still end up with 3D printing artifacts.
Even more laughable is the people on Instagram buying into the narrative from GW about the quality of 3D prints while willfully ignoring that noted above.
Would either of you care to point out the “lines” on the pictures of the leaked model posted previously in this thread?
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: Good to see they smoothed out the 3d printing lines on the copy they used for their promotional model.
If only they did that on the master they used to make the mould...
It's pretty laughable that on the one hand, they market their forgeworld stuff as premium at the same time as demonising 3D printing in The Hobby™, yet when you pay the exorbitant prices they charge for their resin casts, you still end up with 3D printing artifacts.
Even more laughable is the people on Instagram buying into the narrative from GW about the quality of 3D prints while willfully ignoring that noted above.
Would either of you care to point out the “lines” on the pictures of the leaked model posted previously in this thread?
Here is a home printed helmet for comparison. I made these this week on my Photon Mono (less than $200, $335 for the machine ashing/curing machine and 1KG of resin)
These are with the factory settings and no adjustment to the file I paid ($1.77 for ), though there are some free ones that are very similar.
This had to have been a test sample before they printed a nicer quality just to test actual physical size and stability.....or something, either that or a print from a 3d scan of the original. That's the only way I could see these getting out with them being this bad.
The FW helmet is very glossy and shot under a bright light which makes the lines very visible, whereas the next set of helmets are a much more matt finish and under a less bright light, so hard to compare.
On saying that though, my Warbringer Titan certainly had slightly visible lines on some of the armour panels, Warlord titan was absolutely fine, so they certainly do let some of these issues slip through.
Essentially
HH rumors Horus Heresy Rulebook
-Warhammer 40.000 7th Edition to the Core
-Unit Profiles with Keywords like 40k 8th and 9th Edition
-Three Ways to Play
Horus Heresy Compendium
-Formations and Units for all Horus Heresy Core Armies
-"Legion Tactics" for all 18 Space Marine Legions
-Munitorum Field Manual for Matched Play Points included
White Dwarf
-More "Core" Articles like Painting Guides, Batreps or Flashpoints
Its just gonna turn into another competitive meta dominated setting I fear.
And before you respond with "metas are in every game" yes, they are. And if you come across them in 30K you are playing against an outlier, or in other words, an ***hat.
I'm still tired of this "Three ways to play!" marketing spiel that ends up wasting page count and attention span. Playing a narrative campaign was already easily bolted onto the core rules, and nobody needs permission to be lackadaisical and eyeball their games instead of using points which is ultimately all "open" is.
Doesn't this effectively confirm the rumours we've been hearing?
Not really since that's just GW speak for "We aren't telling you when this is getting released because we don't want you not spending money in the meantime". That or they legit don't know yet cos Covid and Brexit and stuff.
That's not really working for them in my case. I can wait for years until a product is out - Even now, I've held off all my Space Marine purchases until the new HH box is released. It ends up costing GW around a 100$ month, so a drop in an ocean though
Hopefully we get some concrete info soon - cautiously optimistic and already beginning to wonder what Legion I'd end up painting this potential box as.
changemod wrote: I'm still tired of this "Three ways to play!" marketing spiel that ends up wasting page count and attention span. Playing a narrative campaign was already easily bolted onto the core rules, and nobody needs permission to be lackadaisical and eyeball their games instead of using points which is ultimately all "open" is.
Yup, and I think it actively harms things.
Want to set up a cool narrative scenario whilst using Matched Play balance rules? Nope, rules are rules! It's narrative so I'm going to spam <OP strat> at you!
Ah OK, that's interesting. It's a bit less far-reaching/wish-list sounding than the last comments that were taken from Reddit, so was thinking it might be a bit more plausible!
I am completely out of the loop on GW/40k rumours so no idea who is trustworthy or not! Going back a decade or so it was "Polish guy at the printers who had sneaked a White Dwarf into the toilets and taken a blurred photo with a crap camera phone" as the only news source, back when GW was sewn up tighter than a Nun's unmentionables (not sure if it's still the same these days!)
Horus Heresy Compendium
-Formations and Units for all Horus Heresy Core Armies
-"Legion Tactics" for all 18 Space Marine Legions
-Munitorum Field Manual for Matched Play Points included
Gotta create a market for all those jacked up high margin products like game cards and so on.
I think GW is actively trying to kill my connection to any of their brands.
I am NOT buying additional Field Manuals just so I can get the points values for my 30k armies and then have them change in 6 months when the next FAQ comes out. GW can GTFO with that nonsense.
I don't buy the source or the content. But that's the kind of thing that probably would grow the 30K player base. The current course is slow death. A new Betrayal at Calth-type set alone isn't going to change that.
kirotheavenger wrote: 30k generally grows as 40k for people who are tired of GW's gak.
Wedding it to GW's gak seems to contradict the point.
Yes I know that's an appeal to a lot of people that play 30k - much more stable ruleset, not having to buy new army books or having your army invalidated or made useless a year after you've spent £hundreds on it.
But - that's contrary to the GW business model and money tree of constant rule and army book cycle, so from GW's perspective you can see why they would want to pull 30k into that same cycle.
This is the reason Oldhammer and previous editions have exploded in popularity over recent years I think. You've got that edition, the army books, the miniatures, no-one is going to depth charge them and make the army ineffective or illegal all of a sudden.
kirotheavenger wrote: 30k generally grows as 40k for people who are tired of GW's gak.
Wedding it to GW's gak seems to contradict the point.
100% agree
If they mess with 30k there's nothing left to fall back on other than titanicus, and even that their support as of late has been terrible. It's at the point where battle bling is giving people more to be excited about than gw, which only further compounds gw's latest ip jihad because they don't even care about the markets they have or making cool stuff anymore.
Natfka / Faeit rumours are automatically false until proven otherwise... which does not happen, them and Spikeybits, anything that comes from either is trash.
There's something about the smaller head on the Terminator that I really like. I wonder if the head is slightly smaller or the armor is slightly larger as they continue to tweak the scale?
GaroRobe wrote: Sort of mixed feelings on these praetors. The last few praetors have been fantastic, and these guys just seem too busy. Maybe it's the paint job too?
It *may* be that they look more like minis from the main GW studio, rather than FW models? The aesthetic is slightly different to what they usually produce.
It's the Eavy Metal paint job more than the sculpts I think. They've been imitating the bright colours with hard lines and near-zero weathering style since Inferno. Those Praetors look like they were yoinked from the GW webstore, not (old) FW.
They're busier than I generally prefer but I like the UMs here, with the exception of the painter's choice to make it look like there's a seam around the beards so it looks like they're wearing fake facial hair (esp. the terminator).
tauist wrote: Well, at least resin is easier to modify if you want to remove some details IME.
I just can't get over the shoddy basing job on them ultras. Like, did they even bother gluing the terminator one to the base? The rock is floating
Not neccessarily. Well known that gw models for studio are often not glued. Mhile i don't know it applies to model for base wouldn't bb surprise if it would be not glued
Not a criticism personally of the Cataphractii Ultramarine sculpt, but I do seem to notice some aspects for 40k Gravis design in there. The cog-teeth design on the boots and the three small grooves in the breastplate under the gorget eagle specifically look like elements of Gravis armour?
Sgt_Smudge wrote: Not a criticism personally of the Cataphractii Ultramarine sculpt, but I do seem to notice some aspects for 40k Gravis design in there. The cog-teeth design on the boots and the three small grooves in the breastplate under the gorget eagle specifically look like elements of Gravis armour?
It's actually the opposite - the Cog-teeth design on the boots of the Gravis Armour is taken from the design of Cataphractii Terminators, they did it first.
Ah, fair point! I still feel the three grooves on the breastplate are similar though - again, it's not a complaint, but just highlighting a similarity!
Sgt_Smudge wrote: Ah, fair point! I still feel the three grooves on the breastplate are similar though - again, it's not a complaint, but just highlighting a similarity!
Yeah, that i think is true, i don't think the trio of grooves was present on any Cataphractii terminators thus far - but i might be wrong, of course.
I wonder if it's a bug or feature that the UM look like gen1 gamers... you know the kind who would tell you about gaming life in the 80's and how AD&D was a downgrade or that they never understood why Battletech needed anything other than the original box release using the Droid name instead.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: Not a criticism personally of the Cataphractii Ultramarine sculpt, but I do seem to notice some aspects for 40k Gravis design in there. The cog-teeth design on the boots and the three small grooves in the breastplate under the gorget eagle specifically look like elements of Gravis armour?
It's actually the opposite - the Cog-teeth design on the boots of the Gravis Armour is taken from the design of Cataphractii Terminators, they did it first.
Old metal Devastators had the cog design on the boots long before them.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: Not a criticism personally of the Cataphractii Ultramarine sculpt, but I do seem to notice some aspects for 40k Gravis design in there. The cog-teeth design on the boots and the three small grooves in the breastplate under the gorget eagle specifically look like elements of Gravis armour?
It's actually the opposite - the Cog-teeth design on the boots of the Gravis Armour is taken from the design of Cataphractii Terminators, they did it first.
Old metal Devastators had the cog design on the boots long before them.
So is the Ultramarine geneseed flaw male pattern baldness? Not the usual shaved bald and screaming but overweight grandpa grey hair style. Makes me wonder if Marneus had Cawl install some hair plugs while he was getting primarisized.
warboss wrote: So is the Ultramarine geneseed flaw male pattern baldness? Not the usual shaved bald and screaming but overweight grandpa grey hair style. Makes me wonder if Marneus had Cawl install some hair plugs while he was getting primarisized.
Well R.G. was supposed to be an albino, now he is a blonde albino....guess that's how he attracts those Eldar Chicks
That design on the boot has shown up a lot on "slow and purposeful" units (multiple times on Devastators, Cataphractii, Gravis). I think they're meant to evoke the crenellations on castles, at least that's where my mind jumps to when I see them.
Nice to see WarCom has given up even trying to name the armours now
Interesting that they use "Siege of Terra" on the header image
Mmm, yes. Think that's the first time that has been used on models.
Wonder if that is how they're going to brand the rumoured HH relaunch.
Or it's the first Fists artwork the designer came across...
The Horus heresy: Siege of Terra branding isn't something that gets put up "just because it's the first thing the designer came across". You don't think that had to go through multiple levels of approval before it got put up on the website?
Interesting that they use "Siege of Terra" on the header image
Mmm, yes. Think that's the first time that has been used on models.
Wonder if that is how they're going to brand the rumoured HH relaunch.
Or it's the first Fists artwork the designer came across...
The Horus heresy: Siege of Terra branding isn't something that gets put up "just because it's the first thing the designer came across". You don't think that had to go through multiple levels of approval before it got put up on the website?
Albertorius wrote: Yeah, it happens, it doesn't seem to be much of a problem, but also yeah, oversight seems kind of lax ^^
FW doesn't seem to really care nowadays.
Just recently, they sent people wrong models, forgot to remove 3D-print lines from masters before making molds, resulting in models having 3D-print lines on the finished, cast models, and put up several models under wrong names or wrong lines - like this, or Horus Heresy DKoK. And they're still to fix the fact stuff they're repackaging is showing up as "No longer avalible online", instead of y'know, "temporarily unavalible" or somethinge else, which would actually be the correct label.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: put up several models under wrong names or wrong lines
What had the wrong name?
The Imperial Fist Preator is still labeled as "Cataphractii Terminator" on their website, while he's actually wearing Tartaros armour. They have diffrent rules, so currently it's a bit of a discrepency between WYSIWYG and what GW labelled him as.
Snrub wrote: They all have their Primarchs. Or do people not count them as characters?
They are kind of in a class of their own. But you have legions like Sons of Horus with 3 named models and a legion command, Imperial fists with 2 named characters, legion command, and 2 praetors, Word bearers with 3 named characters and 2 praetors. Meanwhile Ultramarines were the last to get a Contemptor dreadnought, and the Iron Hands one is terrible, and they both have a single model (event herald for ultramarines and iron father for Iron hands) the Raven Guard and Iron Warriors don't even have that.
zedmeister wrote: Narik was an event exclusive alongside Autilon Skorr. Models go for a pretty penny these days...
Which honestly sucks, speaking as an Alpha Legion player. Skorr has rules, so does Narik. Why on earth somebody thought it was a good idea to produce two character sculpts and then make them limited edition event-only models I'll never know. I wouldn't mind if those both got a re-release.
Moopy wrote: With the "Siege of Terra" header introduced, does that lead more credence a possible new HH boxed set?
Last info on it was June/July but I haven't been able to find anything about it since then.
I mean we've seen the pics, so we know it is coming. We just don't know when. It's a bit weird that GW hasn't announced anything as the leak was so long ago. They often respond to big leaks like that by previewing something official.
Aeneades wrote: October was always the rumoured release date for the new box so I expect we will see it announced in a couple of weeks. Any big shows coming up?
Wonder if this is a tease of what might be coming?
He also notes that each scenario is lifted from existing Horus Heresy lore and is much more than a throwaway.
“The aim with this series is to give players everything they’d get out of a black book, only condensed down to a handful of pages. You’ll find a description of the battle, written by the Horus Heresy team writers after having undertaken extensive research of the source material or talking to the Black Library authors.”
Each Exemplary Battle campaign will contain an army list entry, empowering you to build and play a unit detailed in the battle’s lore, as well as photographs of one or more examples of the new unit, painted by keen hobbyists from around the Forge World studio.
I'd expect the new HH box being announced in some sort of twitch stream. When they announce the next one, there's some chance that we will see the HH box then, or at least get some teaser about it.
The new upscaled firstborn cant come soon enough. I've already stopped buying any more marine kits until we have confirmations about the new kits, and some scale comparison pics to go with them would be nice as well.
I must be one of the few people who dont mind scale changes right next to old marines.
If you mix squads it might be a problem, but it weems to me, overhead and playing on a table, it isnt a big deal
zedmeister wrote: Narik was an event exclusive alongside Autilon Skorr. Models go for a pretty penny these days...
Which honestly sucks, speaking as an Alpha Legion player. Skorr has rules, so does Narik. Why on earth somebody thought it was a good idea to produce two character sculpts and then make them limited edition event-only models I'll never know. I wouldn't mind if those both got a re-release.
Don’t quote me on this, but I think you can still get them from Warhammer World? You certainly could at one point, but not visited in a decent while.
Fluff is cool but the reality is that Solar Auxilia are far more powerful than Alpha Legion in game. Many of my group like playing the underdog and see how long they survive. But in a ZM scenario, Id put my money on Auxilia.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For reference, SA can take 10 man heavy flamer teams or 10 men equipped with power axes for waaaaay less than a squad of Lernaeans. Hell even a 20 man lasrifle section is disgusting.
Only mission 3 specifies any units to be included (and even there, you have to bring the Primarchs, other than that you can do what you like). So if you don't want any Solar Auxilia, don't bring any.
Solar Auxilia are pretty much designed both in fluff and rules for Blood in the Void, so I'd hand the 'more powerful side' to them.
I know there's probably a lot of new blood on FW's teams now now, but previous SA fluff has almost always emphasised that when it comes to void warfare, even if they do ultimately lose, the Solar Auxilia really make Astartes bleed hard for it - Port Maw, Calth's defence platforms, etc. Reducing them to Guardsmen there to be butchered to show how BADASS the Terminators are was a bit eyerolling.
Did you actually read the extract?
Terminators teleporting beside your bunk while you're off duty is hardly a fair fight. Auxilia might do well against Astartes when they're prepared for it but not when it's a surprise assault, y'know the Alpha Legion special.
They didn't, it was like 80 years of buildup and planning. There was literally a Legion-wide purge of any Terrans and suspected Imperial Loyalists.
What are you actually talking about?
Gert wrote: They didn't, it was like 80 years of buildup and planning. There was literally a Legion-wide purge of any Terrans and suspected Imperial Loyalists. What are you actually talking about?
Solar Auxiilia held Calth's defence platforms against the Word Bearers suddenly turning on them. I imagine that's as shocking as Alpha Legion suddenly 'porting in.
I'm just sceptical we aren't going to see SA reduced to trademarked Guardsmen fodder to make Astartes BADASS.
Again, being caught literally with your trousers down in some cases, compared to prepping for embarkation for a military action.
Have you got a specific quote that says the Auxilia did well against the WB during Calth? Because IIRC nobody did well until Guilliman gave the order to fight back.
I'm just sceptical we aren't going to see SA reduced to trademarked Guardsmen fodder to make Astartes BADASS.
This is ONE section in an entirely FREE supplement that you're absolutely free to never, ever use in your games if you don't feel like, and where the written bit of lore really zero effect on actual gameplay. But it's great to see the GW naysayers out once again nagging about everything the company does.
I'm just sceptical we aren't going to see SA reduced to trademarked Guardsmen fodder to make Astartes BADASS.
This is ONE section in an entirely FREE supplement that you're absolutely free to never, ever use in your games if you don't feel like, and where the written bit of lore really zero effect on actual gameplay. But it's great to see the GW naysayers out once again nagging about everything the company does.
+ it's the battle where the Alpha Legion lose and their Primarch dies. How dare they get a moment of badassery! What a ludicrous complaint
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Gotta say, this sounds like the most fun and balanced scenario since the Massacre at Sanctuary 101.
I wonder which side I should play?
If HH playerbase taught me anything, it's that everyone always goes for the OP winning side in anything vaguely narrative.
"Play HH, we are fluffy narrative players!... until you ask for a game"
Tbf, they are narrative players.
The narrative is 'screw you I win'
"What do you mean 12 phosphex quad launchers, crowded around a dude buffing them, plus two token troops aren't a fluffy army?
...now watch me resolve 192 small blast templates for the next four hours arguing about every single "hit" where it tagged outer 0.1 mm of enemy base to remind everyone why GW dropped that gak mechanic in 8th edition"
TBF a lot of the bad stuff has been FAQ'd. Tsons are still good but nowhere near as broken and quad mortars were nerfed heavily, and rightly so. Having its own Psychic Power charts has helped as well, no Invisible Lorgar or Magnus for example.
ImAGeek wrote: The UM praetors are each £2 more than the IF ones that just came out.
It's the Ward Tax, you're paying him for the privilege of running the same army as him.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I find it hilarious that the regular Preator's helmet is apparently build in a way that highlights the fact he's bald.
I'm disappointed with Argel Tal. His big thing is that he uses a Guardian Spear but instead he gets claws that are useless against characters. A regular Praetor would be better and that's just sad.
Argel is very meh, any character costing that much and lacking AP2 isn't really worth taking. And I don't understand the two-hand rule. He's fighting unarmed (but with big claws) let him get an extra attack at least. Then he could be used as a power armor weedwhacker more effectively.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Im honestly not expecting anything from FW rules writers at this point. So not a huge disappointment.
Hilarious. I was so close to guessing 70 USD the other day but even I thought GW wouldn't be that ridiculous.
And yet here we are. What a time to be alive.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just noticed that the ultramarine praetors are each 3 USD more expensive than each of the imperial fists praetors released, what, two weeks ago?
That's almost 10% more for the non-terminators. Truly hilarious.
Gert wrote: I'm disappointed with Argel Tal. His big thing is that he uses a Guardian Spear but instead he gets claws that are useless against characters. A regular Praetor would be better and that's just sad.
He was already possessed when he took the spear, wasn't he? I was wondering if this was an earlier version of him, but that doesn't make much sense - I'm now wondering if the sculpt was meant to be someone else and they decided to slap a famous name on it...
Gert wrote: I'm disappointed with Argel Tal. His big thing is that he uses a Guardian Spear but instead he gets claws that are useless against characters. A regular Praetor would be better and that's just sad.
Does every single character need to be the same, ie, an ap2, character killing beat stick?
beast_gts wrote: He was already possessed when he took the spear, wasn't he? I was wondering if this was an earlier version of him, but that doesn't make much sense - I'm now wondering if the sculpt was meant to be someone else and they decided to slap a famous name on it...
Yeah I thought that too except for the dead Ultramarine and then "Master of the Vakrah Jal" would suggest it's when he's having a romp through Ultramar with his best friend Kharn.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: Does every single character need to be the same, ie, an ap2, character killing beat stick?
It's something the Word Bearers don't have so a little bit yeah. It's also Argel Tal and killing people, specifically Custodes, is what he is famous for. He can't even do that well.
I'm not expecting a super-OP madlad killer but for god's sake, it's literally all Argel Tal does and he's just awful.
It's something the Word Bearers don't have so a little bit yeah. It's also Argel Tal and killing people, specifically Custodes, is what he is famous for. He can't even do that well.
I'm not expecting a super-OP madlad killer but for god's sake, it's literally all Argel Tal does and he's just awful.
I mean, he has rend and a ton of attacks, so the fluff could still be satisfied in killing a custodes.
And isn't he just notable and famous for being the leader of the first marines to be possessed? Which he still is here in his rules.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: I mean, he has rend and a ton of attacks, so the fluff could still be satisfied in killing a custodes.
For 185pts, I've got a Praetor with a 4+ invuln, a Paragon Blade (+1 S, 6's to wound are ID), a Lightning Claw to get the +1 A for 2 Specialist CCW, and Digital Lasers for +1 A. This Praetor has 1 less W, S and T, and no Fear (which isn't really useful when most of your enemies are Space Marines). Stubborn and Rage are very nice rules but it doesn't matter if you don't run from Combat when you can't kill the hard hitters found in bodyguard/deathstar units.
And isn't he just notable and famous for being the leader of the first marines to be possessed? Which he still is here in his rules.
He used twinned swords at Isstvan and then used a Guardian Spear (famously unusable by anyone other than its owner because of bio-locks) until his death. His special rule is also "Master of the Vakrah Jal" which was a title he received after Isstvan and when he got the Spear. Characters aren't just notable for one thing. He was one of the first Possessed yes but there's been absolutely no effort put into portraying him as he is in the novels, which is not usual for Heresy Characters.
And they still have the horrendous rad-phage rule, among the most useless rules in 30K. Horrible unit for their cost.
Simple fix to actually make destroyers scary and useful:
-A unit that suffers hits caused by a rad-missile launcher (or any weapon with the rad-phage special rule) suffers a -1 modifier to their toughness value until the next shooting phase. This modifier is cumulative with other modifiers such as the effects of Rad Grenades and the Enfeeble psychic power.
This would make the weapon worth the price, allowing the bolt pistols in the squad to do increased damage (since they're described as using special radioactive rounds which have no rules in place to represent this), and then allow the destroyers to charge in after shooting and use their rad grenades to effectively drop marine toughness to 2.
Destroyers would actually be an intimidating unit to face if this change was implemented. And it would be an interesting gameplay shift to focus on killing through debuffing rather than plasma veteran spam.
Marshal Loss wrote: Legion-specific destroyer rules sound cool, but this was a waste of a legion dispatch article.
Serious question:
What do you expect them to do? Use it to reveal the leaked Heresy box?
Because it looks more and more and more like that was intended for the Heresy Open Day in October.
This is the first legion dispatch article (it being the 6th) to not reveal a new model, after previous iterations have shown us Maloghurst, Argel Tal, 2x Imperial Fist Praetors, 1x SoH Praetor, and 2x Ultramarine Praetors. All it does is 1) tell us that a unit released c. 8 years ago will be restocked soon and 2) that we'll get some kind of vague rules content in one or more already announced free campaign supplements at an unspecified date in the future. I don't expect and have never expected something that large to be shown in a random WHC article, but there's plenty of design space for a monthly article between "nothing new whatsoever" and "showing a giant setting-changing release" so let's not act like disappointment is an unjustifiable response.
The event in October is not and has never been a "Heresy Open Day".
And if the box is shown then all people will do is complain about why the box isn't out yet. Literally doesn't make a difference to anyone at GW what happens because people will complain regardless.
This is the first legion dispatch article (it being the 6th) to not reveal a new model, after previous iterations have shown us Maloghurst, Argel Tal, 2x Imperial Fist Praetors, 1x SoH Praetor, and 2x Ultramarine Praetors. All it does is 1) tell us that a unit released c. 8 years ago will be restocked soon and 2) that we'll get some kind of vague rules content in one or more already announced free campaign supplements at an unspecified date in the future. I don't expect and have never expected something that large to be shown in a random WHC article, but there's plenty of design space for a monthly article between "nothing new whatsoever" and "showing a giant setting-changing release" so let's not act like disappointment is an unjustifiable response.
I never said it was "unjustifiable", I just feel like no matter what you've set yourself up for disappointment.
I've done the same to myself untold numbers of times. It happens.
The "Legion Dispatch" is just a monthly feature. They aren't all winners. Necromunda had a few just talking about building gang hideouts and they've shown off untold numbers of things using those tiles that have been out of stock for two fricking years now.
The event in October is not and has never been a "Heresy Open Day".
If you say so. The term "Heresy Open Day" has been used a few different times by members of the community staff.
Kanluwen wrote: I never said it was "unjustifiable", I just feel like no matter what you've set yourself up for disappointment.
You immediately threw in the hyperbolic "what did you expect, the plastic heresy box?", so I'm not sure why you bothered commenting in the first place. I've been playing 30k since the beginning and know what I'm in for, I don't need you to police my expectations.
Kanluwen wrote: If you say so. The term "Heresy Open Day" has been used a few different times by members of the community staff.
It has never been advertised as anything other than what it is: a gaming event. The only notable addendum is that it was initially described as a "matched play event", which was later removed. Nowhere at any point was it advertised as an open day, which is obviously a very different beast. Feel free to offer a citation.
Gert wrote: And if the box is shown then all people will do is complain about why the box isn't out yet. Literally doesn't make a difference to anyone at GW what happens because people will complain regardless.
They could have done a bit of a tease. The leaked photo showed a Spartan, they could have done a Spartan Showcase, different, chapters, but not mention the new box directly.
This was a HH article to show that something was coming back into stock. How far has FW fallen...
Gert wrote: And if the box is shown then all people will do is complain about why the box isn't out yet.
That's not even slightly true. When have GW revealed something only to have everyone go "Well why isn't it out right this very second???"? We know how the reveal/pre-order system works.
Riiiiiiiiight sure thing chief. We never see people complain about when things are getting released ever. It's completely unheard of.
The Legion Dispatch sucks, it really does. But there was no way the new box was going to even be partially discussed/shown when AoS 3 was being released and Orks/BT were getting their hype built up.
Gert wrote: Riiiiiiiiight sure thing chief. We never see people complain about when things are getting released ever. It's completely unheard of.
You honestly really think GW would reveal a box and that instantly, the moment they do, there'd be people here going "Why is it out yet???", like somehow people here don't understand supply chains and shipping time?
"People might complain it isn't out!" is also a pretty dumb reason not to show something. By that logic GW shouldn't show anything ever until the release date.
Showing a box in August that's supposedly being released in October isn't generating any traffic or hype for said box. The talk is done by Septmeber, its not a new thing anymore and nobody except the dedicated crowd are going to buy it.
But hey show me where I said people would complain "instantly".
When Orks and BT are done, that's when we'll likely see the new Heresy box.
Can you give me any examples that were shown 3 months before they were released that didn't cause annoyance and complaining from the community? Because that's the point I'm getting at here. People will complain if the box isn't shown and will complain if it is, so why bother showing it early when the end result is the same? And you know factor in AoS 3, Orks getting a revamp and BT getting what seems to be a substantial release, then think why GW might not want to show off something that won't be another for at least another month from now, 2 from when the leaks were dropped.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Where are the people complaining that the BT box isn't out right now? The new KT box?
You mean the stuff that was shown 3 days ago and will be released likely by the end of the month? You're not actually reading what I'm saying in my posts. When things have long release windows i.e. not a couple of weeks after reveal like 90% of GW products (whether intentional or not) people complain and then lose interest. The huge gap between the Beastsnaggaz box and the actual Ork release for example, and I'll be willing to bet if there is a big gap between the new BT box and the Codex Supplement it'll be the same. Personally I think the FOMO "army" box is a load of nonsense, especially this one.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Where are the people complaining that the BT box isn't out right now? The new KT box?
You mean the stuff that was shown 3 days ago and will be released likely by the end of the month? You're not actually reading what I'm saying in my posts. When things have long release windows i.e. not a couple of weeks after reveal like 90% of GW products (whether intentional or not) people complain and then lose interest. The huge gap between the Beastsnaggaz box and the actual Ork release for example, and I'll be willing to bet if there is a big gap between the new BT box and the Codex Supplement it'll be the same. Personally I think the FOMO "army" box is a load of nonsense, especially this one.
If you're the one making the assertion that people would behave negatively in a certain way, isn't the onus on you to provide real world examples that demonstrate that behaviour to support your argument? Otherwise it's just flaccid conjecture.
These arguments are so boring because they just amount to, "I believe x, but I won't actually prove it be cause I believe I'm right." Why even post them?
I just gave an example of the time between the Beastsnaggaz and Orks proper. I could also point to the amount of time it took for the Lion, Book 8, and most of the releases for units from Book 8. What about how long it usually takes between a Limited Ed Siege of Terra book and the regular hardback. Or the Limited Ed Godblight and the regular hardback. Or a boatload of BL books that get announced then one day just show up in preorder lists months later. How about the 8th Ed Imperial Armour book that was announced then never heard of again, only for it to emerge like 2 years later that it had been cancelled.
Is that enough?
This is a thread where the fact that both editions of Warhawk are being released at the same time is noted as being out of the ordinary and a good thing:
https://mobile.twitter.com/track_of_words/status/1439638208820699137 ADB and the Senior Commissioning Editor for Black Library, Kate Hamer, get involved so it's not just randoms on the Internet.
As for the rest, you'll forgive me if I don't spend the rest of my day trawling through years of WHFB posts to find people complaining. Not exactly a healthy thing to do but I'm sure you can find evidence all over Dakka.
You don't have to trawl. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/510/800879.page Here's people complaining that the BT codex will be released slightly later than the limited one, likely a matter of weeks, as happens with nearly all releases that don't show up in whatever people like to consider a timely manner, or have something else that's apparently objectionable (like a limited release a few weeks earlier in this case).
JWBS wrote: You don't have to trawl. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/510/800879.page Here's people complaining that the BT codex will be released slightly later than the limited one, likely a matter of weeks, as happens with nearly all releases that don't show up in whatever people like to consider a timely manner, or have something else that's apparently objectionable (like a limited release a few weeks earlier in this case).
You're misrepresenting what people are complaining about to suit your argument. They are complaining that the army book is locked behind an early release army box instead of being available independently, which I'd agree is pretty disappointing.
Regardless, gert can't support his assertion so this is all conjecture, which I can gladly ignore.
The unlocked one comes a few weeks later. It's not a complaint that the only way to get the book is in the army box. So what is there a complaint? It's the few dozen days in between the limited release and the non-limited release, that's what's so distressing to some people. I don't know why I have to explain this, this was several sentences that I shouldn't have had to write.
JWBS wrote: The unlocked one comes a few weeks later. It's not a complaint that the only way to get the book is in the army box. So what is there a complaint? It's the few dozen days in between the limited release and the non-limited release, that's what's so distressing to some people. I don't know why I have to explain this, this was several sentences that I shouldn't have had to write.
My quick count puts 7 weeks elapsing between the beast snagga box containing the codex on July 24 and the codex being released independently on September 11. That's a precedent of almost two months to use the new rules if you're not willing to pay a huge premium. That's a reasonable complaint. As you said, I don't know why I have to explain this.
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