1. Clean white aesthetic to their armour.
2. Worship a computer.

The new Squats are an Apple cult.

very intressting

Dude that art is awesome.

I'm getting a big future-dwemer vibe from this and I am here for it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
1. Clean white aesthetic to their armour.
2. Worship a computer.

The new Squats are an Apple cult.

That would explain their absence.

With their Hipster Hair and Stupid Bloody Beards, they weren’t scoffed by Tyranids. They were all getting the queue for whatever iPhone was to be released. For several hundred years.

Thoughts on the helmet? It looks like a mix of kharadron and the new SCE helmet. I guess it probably can't look too closely to the former, though

Nice! Not too fussed about whatever fairy tale they go for fluff wise but that armour is looking exactly what I want!!!!

Love that artwork. Very atmospheric.

...you'd've thought the first question to ask a Votann once they began to noticeably slow down would by "what needs to be done to ensure you are capable of running at full capacity?"

And has anyone tried turning it off and on again yet?

With that artwork, it seems they place their dead into the machine to form a gestalt ancestor. Sort of like a colossal thinking servitor?

 Dysartes wrote:

And has anyone tried turning it off and on again yet?

Restart is a taboo word

Zardoz...is that you?!?

H.B.M.C. wrote:1. Clean white aesthetic to their armour.
2. Worship a computer.

The new Squats are an Apple cult.

Which somehow makes it worse...

 Chairman Aeon wrote:
Zardoz...is that you?!?

Zardoz speaks to you! The gun is good…

Man said, "Can entropy not be reversed? Let us ask the Cosmic AC."

The Cosmic AC surrounded them but not in space. Not a fragment of it was in space. It was in hyperspace and made of something that was neither matter nor energy. The question of its size and nature no longer had meaning in any terms that Man could comprehend.

"Cosmic AC," said Man, "how may entropy be reversed?"

The Cosmic AC said, "THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER."

Man said, "Collect additional data."

The Cosmic AC said, 'I WILL DO SO. I HAVE BEEN DOING SO FOR A HUNDRED BILLION YEARS. MY PREDECESORS AND I HAVE BEEN ASKED THIS QUESTION MANY TlMES. ALL THE DATA I HAVE REMAINS INSUFFICIENT.

Has the Ancestor Core reached a verdict?

I HAVE.

Guilty or innocent?


Innocent!

Feed him to the Sharkticons!

I think it was originally a magic 8 ball, they've just added layers and layers of stuff on top of it

isn't that right Votann ?

'future hazy, try again later'

Definitely liking the fluff and the artwork.

In an amazingly convenient coincidence there is currently a Kickstarter running for a rather nic sci fi ai core type scenery piece

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kitbashkingdom/star-brain-core-by-kitbash-kingdom?ref=user_menu

Need to add your own screaming helmet-clad faces though.

Definitely like the artwork and the concepts behind it. Cool for sure, and the fluff doesn't seem necessarily incompatible with what we have learned previously about Squats.

Still unimpressed with what little we've seen of the current miniature design, but I am curious to see what bits of Votann fluff I might be able to incorporate if I ever get around to painting and building the Squats I have.

Quasistellar wrote:
Dude that art is awesome.

I'm getting a big future-dwemer vibe from this and I am here for it.

Yeah, that mark of power armor they're wearing is getting me harder than terminator armor!

Having them led by and worshipping giant AI cores that may or not be going mad is an interesting direction to go with them. Lots of things they could do with that - living ancestors being uploaded conciousness for example.

The artwork itself looks great and has plenty of atmosphere, and it looks like they'll be keeping some of the usual Dwarf archetype elements.

I do hope they're not *all* wearing big bulky suits of armour though. The leader guy looks alright, but i still feel like the others seems a bit bland and generic - like bulkier smaller Space Marines.

You just know that they are slowing down because some idiot asked them something about life, the universe and, well everything.

Sooo..challenge.. whats gonna be on page 42 of the codex?

princeyg wrote:
You just know that they are slowing down because some idiot asked them something about life, the universe and, well everything.

Sooo..challenge.. whats gonna be on page 42 of the codex?

A big floppy Donkey REDACTED BY THE INQUSITION THIS POST IS NOW SUBJECT TO ADVANCED COMPLIANCE PROTOCOLS

All games with Votann army models must be played on a new 6x7 foot play mat that will be special edition, never in stock, and will require a mortgage to acquire.

It won’t actually be that expensive, you just need to take out a mortgage with GW to qualify for it. Diversification, dontcherknow

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Has the Ancestor Core reached a verdict?

I HAVE.

Guilty or innocent?


Innocent!

Feed him to the Sharkticons!

That was the thing I was thinking about too.

Three-faced Transformer robot with a god-complex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The guy with the pointing finger looks pretty tall. Doesn´t look to me like a Squat. Legs are too long.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

And has anyone tried turning it off and on again yet?

Restart is a taboo word

Yeah, especially if the "Ancestor Core" is literally a bunch of ancestors hooked together! What if it doesn't turn back on again?

Going with the space hipster meme, "Oh? You only have one ancient leader hooked to a throne?"

In the one picture, are those dudes seated in the background all ancestors linked up to the core? Or are they the council of old ancestor/advisors (very dwarven) advising the guy in the big armor playing with the projected space rune stuff? Are they flying through space with stars in the background?

Anyways, Lots of questions! I definitely got a grim and dark sort of vibe I wasn't expecting, but maybe a should have since it is 40k. Not sure what to think yet since this artwork is very different from the previous reveal.

gravitywell wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

And has anyone tried turning it off and on again yet?

Restart is a taboo word

Yeah, especially if the "Ancestor Core" is literally a bunch of ancestors hooked together! What if it doesn't turn back on again?

Going with the space hipster meme, "Oh? You only have one ancient leader hooked to a throne?"

In the one picture, are those dudes seated in the background all ancestors linked up to the core? Or are they the council of old ancestor/advisors (very dwarven) advising the guy in the big armor playing with the projected space rune stuff? Are they flying through space with stars in the background?

Anyways, Lots of questions! I definitely got a grim and dark sort of vibe I wasn't expecting, but maybe a should have since it is 40k. Not sure what to think yet since this artwork is very different from the previous reveal.

My stable mutation is heritage and artisan.

Space Hipsters Confirmed!

I love the idea of GLaDOS mixed with Deep Thought looking like a Quintesson...in possession of STCs and other heretical information.

Yah...I like it. Definitely getting the army book. I would love if they could ally with the Imperium but not if there are any Mechanicus in spitting distance...

You can bet once Cawl gets wind of this that all hell will break loose.

 Sacredroach wrote:
I love the idea of GLaDOS mixed with Deep Thought looking like a Quintesson...in possession of STCs and other heretical information.

Yah...I like it. Definitely getting the army book. I would love if they could ally with the Imperium but not if there are any Mechanicus in spitting distance...

You can bet once Cawl gets wind of this that all hell will break loose.

I hadn’t thought about the first part… what is the official squat position on testing? (And singing sentry turrets… and cake)

Guys, I just realized GW completely ripped off Disney.

For context, the big bad of Amphibia is The Core, which is, and I quote:

The Core is a biomechanical, artificial hive mind... They were created long ago and is an amalgamation of the smartest minds from across Amphibia's history.

is exactly the same thing as:

They are event called Ancestor Cores.

The hell is Amphibia?

If we assume Squat heads are around the same size as human ones, lore-wise, the Squats seem to be around 6 and a half heads tall, so around a head shorter compared to the average human (that are around 7 and a half heads). Aka, the Squats are like, roughly around 150-160cm.

 Sacredroach wrote:
I love the idea of GLaDOS mixed with Deep Thought looking like a Quintesson...in possession of STCs and other heretical information.

Yah...I like it. Definitely getting the army book. I would love if they could ally with the Imperium but not if there are any Mechanicus in spitting distance...

You can bet once Cawl gets wind of this that all hell will break loose.

No Quintesson will ever be greater than my favourite tattoo. The Three Faces of Stupid. Which is a Quintesson, but the three visible faces are all Beavis.

Right hand normal Beavis. Picking his nose with a tentacle. Central head, naturally, Cornholio. Left hand Beavis in pain with a pencil in his eye.

 Tyran wrote:
Guys, I just realized GW completely ripped off Disney.

Along that same ludicrous vein, you could argue that calling them Ancestor Cores is intended to be seen a reference to "The Last Question", the Isaac Asimov tale I jocularly quoted upthread.

 Tyran wrote:
Guys, I just realized GW completely ripped off Disney.

Googling it, Amphibia came out in 2019. It is early 2022. Given how long its taking for the Old World to debut and we've already seen a Squat model, this is the basic equivalent of people saying that Ashwaste nomads are a Book of Boba Fett ripoff

The Kin: Oh great Ancestorcore - do you have an answer?

Core: I DO!

The Kin: The ultimate answer?

Core: I DO! BUT YOU'RE NOT REALLY GOING TO LIKE IT.......

 GaroRobe wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
Guys, I just realized GW completely ripped off Disney.

Googling it, Amphibia came out in 2019. It is early 2022. Given how long its taking for the Old World to debut and we've already seen a Squat model, this is the basic equivalent of people saying that Ashwaste nomads are a Book of Boba Fett ripoff

Pretty sure that somehow the Simpsons (or Futurama) already did it.

I mean: Giant degrading AI controls society, and is venerated as a god. I suppose Fritz Lang might have some ideas there... Or Cordwainer Smith with the Abbadingo. Or, or, or...

Some have developed idiosyncrasies – what might even be termed “personalities”.

What’s really intriguing is that allegedly Squats were abandoned because they couldn’t think of a direction to take them, but this definitely feels like a direction and an interesting one to boot.

Guess sometimes it takes 30-years for inspiration to strike…

The art is pretty and all, but at a first glance this guy just looks like a Space Marine.



...Which, given how large the new Squat models appear to be, does at least give Firstborn players something to do with their models when they are finally written out of the Marine books...

 Sacredroach wrote:

Pretty sure that somehow the Simpsons (or Futurama) already did it.

I mean: Giant degrading AI controls society, and is venerated as a god. I suppose Fritz Lang might have some ideas there... Or Cordwainer Smith with the Abbadingo. Or, or, or...

Literally the plot of at least two of Star Trek the original series episodes.

 insaniak wrote:
The art is pretty and all, but at a first glance this guy just looks like a Space Marine.



...Which, given how large the new Squat models appear to be, does at least give Firstborn players something to do with their models when they are finally written out of the Marine books...

Lore wise I understand why they'd look fairly similar to Space Marines presuming those are just from a more advanced / Complete STC for Power armour or Exosuits, but the lack of an apparent distinct identity for their designs is still quite a disappointment if there isn't more to them. We've seen 3 different armour styles now (Miniature and the 2 different ones in that art) and they just look a little bland.

 Tyran wrote:
Guys, I just realized GW completely ripped off Disney.

For context, the big bad of Amphibia is The Core, which is, and I quote:

Isn't The Core one of the factions in the video game Total Annihilation? Disney ripped off Cavedog Entertainment!

I went with Amphibia because I wanted to be funny but also because the Core is made of the uploaded knowledge, wisdom and personalities. It is literally made of ancestors.

Super godlike AIs are relatively common, but not many have the ancestor worship component that is present in the Votann.

" if the secrets of the Votann were ever revealed to the galaxy at large, the uneasy peace between the Leagues and the Imperium of Man would quickly crumble."

So they are clearly outside the Imperium, which I like. But does it seem like they are going with "they where always there" in the lore, rather than a narrative of re-emergence?

Liking the hard sci-fi feel of the art- getting a bit of a feel of Dune with the armour. I'd like a bit more of a dwarf vibe from it but I'm guessing seeing the helmets, weapons and other stylings will suggest that more in addition to a better sense of their proportions.
The dragon thing coming over the top of the leaders armour - initially I thought it might be a weapon handle but maybe its shield tech?

I wonder if the Core will malfunction like the Computer in Paranoia...

given the speed a lot of the Imperium operates at they've not been gone long enough to notice except for the 'local' area which was probably mostly eaten by Tyranids as well

 insaniak wrote:
The art is pretty and all, but at a first glance this guy just looks like a Space Marine.

He looks even more like Starcraft Marines than 40k Marines do.

Interesting direction with the "our gods are dying or going mad or demented". I will wait and see what GW do with this. I at first mistook the artwork for a space marine as well.

The Ancestor Core concept sounds like almost a mix of Infinity Circuit and STC database mixed together.

The worship or veneration of AI cores sounds like basically what happened with the Adeptus Mechanicus and the STC. Over time, why bother to try to understand the material yourself when you can just ask the computer and it gives you the answer? Eventually all the information becomes so vast and complicated that it seems impossible to understand yourself, and the computer begins to assume a god-like status if its answers mean the difference between survival and death.

It says the datastacks are self-organising so it perhaps has long gotten beyond the ability of the Squats/Kin themselves to manually fix. Maybe the cores themselves no longer know how to further expand or streamline their operations, and maybe the Squats are too scared to do something like defrag or delete some old data for fear it may irreparably damage the cores, and from just simple veneration/worship of the old.

This background is so intriguing! Having a human faction that preserves ties to the DAoT through gestalt AI constructs that are slowly turning rampant is *so* fething cool! And the art direction for the faction looks excellent so far, too - clearly stemming from the same technological heritage as the IoM, but managing to look more functional and ... rational?

I don't think I've been this excited for anything to do with GW since they fixed the midget marines.

It's also really neat to see that they're being introduced as having a non-hostile relationship with the IoM. This adds a degree of complexity and intrigue that makes the setting much more interesting, in my mind.

 Tyran wrote:
I went with Amphibia because I wanted to be funny but also because the Core is made of the uploaded knowledge, wisdom and personalities. It is literally made of ancestors.

I was being silly, as well. But after I made the post, it occurred to me that what motivated the Core in Total Annihilation was a desire to safeguard everyone by uploading their personalities.

Umm...

^^;;

It's a relatively small thing and not definite, but to me the article saying "No one beyond the Leagues..." seems to imply that "The Leagues" are a physical location themselves, so they might not be fleet-bound after all.

I tell you hwhat, that artwork is extremely cool. To me it looks more like LoTR dwarves in space than WHFB, which is I guess the right way to go to make them different to Kharadon. I want to see some beards though lads (looks like one of the enthroned in the top left has a good beard going on).

Love the idea of the ancestors starting to go a bit mental and perhaps the Votanni are looking for a fix. This looks like the absolute right direction so I'm keen so see what happens next.

Vontanii eunt domus

I see the Votann, they go the house?

 Flinty wrote:
Vontanii eunt domus

I see the Votann, they go the house?

I'm trying to figure out who would be the centurion and the grammatically-challenged vandal in this exchange.

 Olthannon wrote:
I tell you hwhat, that artwork is extremely cool. To me it looks more like LoTR dwarves in space than WHFB, which is I guess the right way to go to make them different to Kharadon. I want to see some beards though lads (looks like one of the enthroned in the top left has a good beard going on).

Love the idea of the ancestors starting to go a bit mental and perhaps the Votanni are looking for a fix. This looks like the absolute right direction so I'm keen so see what happens next.

I believe both the revealed model and the central figure in the artwork (in the gold mask) both have beards.

 KidCthulhu wrote:
I wonder if the Core will malfunction like the Computer in Paranoia...

Traitor! Friend Computer is 100% fine and fully operational.

It's the Kree supreme intelligence. Networked minds of the specie's greatest thinkers around a computer core.

 crumby_cataphract wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Vontanii eunt domus

I see the Votann, they go the house?

I'm trying to figure out who would be the centurion and the grammatically-challenged vandal in this exchange.

 Olthannon wrote:
I tell you hwhat, that artwork is extremely cool. To me it looks more like LoTR dwarves in space than WHFB, which is I guess the right way to go to make them different to Kharadon. I want to see some beards though lads (looks like one of the enthroned in the top left has a good beard going on).

Love the idea of the ancestors starting to go a bit mental and perhaps the Votanni are looking for a fix. This looks like the absolute right direction so I'm keen so see what happens next.

I believe both the revealed model and the central figure in the artwork (in the gold mask) both have beards.

Yes I think the helmets will be stylised bearded faces, more lifelike than Kharadron ones. I think one of the exo suits has one as well but its something I really want to see. I thought the silhouettes they posted of the actual model all had bare heads but I think its just that their helmets are more head sized and shaped. It looks like they are going for "Space Dwarfs" rather than "dwarfs in space" so the visual references might be more subtle [the digital rune language rather than just runes for example]. Mind you love the big ancestor face on the wall panel in that room and the figures in the alcoves. Really liking the feel of it.

It's nice artwork. I hope we get to see actual models soon, for Warhammer Fest maybe. That's around the corner, right?

I'm especially interested in the exo armor. I always loved Terminators. To be fair, way more in concept than execution, what with the anatomical quirks of the models being exceptionally quirky even by GW's standards. It seems they went with a similar design for exo armor. And that certainly has my attention.

And of course one of the big questions I want to see answered definitively is how tall they are. See how those mockups people made got it right and see if GW figured that even though Squats are based on the dwarf archetype, they are abhumans and can be justified to be taller than your run of the mill dwarf so as to make more imposing models.

Given Ancestor Cores are giant AIs, wonder how they’ll reinterpret Living Ancestors? Maybe Mentat style beings? Or cyborgs enhanced with Ancestor tech?

I quite like the new lore - espeically the apparent nods to Deep Thought!

Now how will the mice come into it.....

I think it would be awesome if they made 40K ‘dwarfs’ 9 feet tall.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Given Ancestor Cores are giant AIs, wonder how they’ll reinterpret Living Ancestors? Maybe Mentat style beings? Or cyborgs enhanced with Ancestor tech?

AI facsimiles of venerable Kin created from memory uploads and data stored within the Votann inhabiting mechanical golem-like recreations of their bodies, with them degrading over time and/or convinced that they're still themselves but slowly realize they're fake and going mad requiring resetting. Seen as an honour as they get as close to their "god" as they can be by becoming an extension of the Votann and themselves becoming an integral part of the whole "Ancestor Worship" thing with "Living Ancestors" being elements of the Ancestor core in Squat form.

So, since it looks like Squats have power armor that looks like better, less embellished marine armor I wonder how viable putting Dwarf Heads on 2nd edition Marine bodies will be. LOL

soooo.. Men of Gold/ Men of Iron ?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ooooh!

Now we know what a Votann actually is!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/22/the-leagues-of-votann-are-coming-but-what-actually-is-a-votann/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=blpregallery230422&fbclid=IwAR00muBFJb_TAKrjgGvzwTTIc8rED5_du6PBwIN2J27k5-BSQBk8UfvvLVg

So the squats have a Dr. Theopolis?

Nope. They’ve got a Holly, as it’s gone a bit peculiar

That only works if they have a Kat and a Lister as well............

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nope. They’ve got a Holly, as it’s gone a bit peculiar

"Rude alert! An electrical fire has knocked out my voice recognition unicycle!" - Some Squat ancestor machine probably.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nope. They’ve got a Holly, as it’s gone a bit peculiar

Could be interesting if it decides to pretend to be Queeg...

Do we have an idea of when Warhammer day is or what the mini might be [quietly hoping for a LoV model like they ddi for Sisters].

 Eihnlazer wrote:
That only works if they have a Kat and a Lister as well............

Well.

It’s currently implied the AI includes some kind of engram from Ancestors. So that’s your Rimmer sorted out. And with rumours they’ll have some take on Men of Iron? There’s your Kryten.

Lister is just Kin, Cat could be a Felinid.

Boys from the Dwarfs.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
That only works if they have a Kat and a Lister as well............

Well.

It’s currently implied the AI includes some kind of engram from Ancestors. So that’s your Rimmer sorted out. And with rumours they’ll have some take on Men of Iron? There’s your Kryten.

Lister is just Kin, Cat could be a Felinid.

Boys from the Dwarfs.

I hope the Ad Mech doesn't find out about their talking toaster.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
That only works if they have a Kat and a Lister as well............

Well.

It’s currently implied the AI includes some kind of engram from Ancestors. So that’s your Rimmer sorted out. And with rumours they’ll have some take on Men of Iron? There’s your Kryten.

Lister is just Kin, Cat could be a Felinid.

Boys from the Dwarfs.

I hope the Ad Mech doesn't find out about their talking toaster.

Knowing them it’s a coin flip as to whether they declare it heresy or start worshiping it as the divine incarnation of the Omnissiah!

It’s the Scutters you need to watch for. Wilful little buggers, Scutters.

Incidentally, for anyone disappointed with the Votann stuff, there's a small Kickstarter going on for some space dwarves clearly inspired by GW's unreleased 2nd edition Squats. Just 3 different sculpts that form a single squad, but they look quite nice to my eyes so I pledged for a set.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/curis/roknaut-space-dwarf-28mm-sci-fi-wargames-and-rpg-miniatures

So many space dwarf kickstarters (well, 12 at least... that's quite a few)

https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/advanced?ref=nav_search&term=space%20dwarf

All the ended ones should be findable online.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Incidentally, for anyone disappointed with the Votann stuff, there's a small Kickstarter going on for some space dwarves clearly inspired by GW's unreleased 2nd edition Squats. Just 3 different sculpts that form a single squad, but they look quite nice to my eyes so I pledged for a set.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/curis/roknaut-space-dwarf-28mm-sci-fi-wargames-and-rpg-miniatures

They’re nice sculpts to be sure. But in the modern TLOS, a red flag to a bull to TFG if you try to use them in a game.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Incidentally, for anyone disappointed with the Votann stuff, there's a small Kickstarter going on for some space dwarves clearly inspired by GW's unreleased 2nd edition Squats. Just 3 different sculpts that form a single squad, but they look quite nice to my eyes so I pledged for a set.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/curis/roknaut-space-dwarf-28mm-sci-fi-wargames-and-rpg-miniatures

Not gonna lie, these really scratch the 2nd Edition "What Could Have Been" itch. Very nice indeed!

Re-reading the Votann Article, If they've only developed "personalities" as a result of their degradation, does that not suggest they aren't actually AI? Otherwise they'd have something resembling a personality in the first place?

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Re-reading the Votann Article, If they've only developed "personalities" as a result of their degradation, does that not suggest they aren't actually AI? Otherwise they'd have something resembling a personality in the first place?

Clearly you don’t know many lawyers or bankers.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Re-reading the Votann Article, If they've only developed "personalities" as a result of their degradation, does that not suggest they aren't actually AI? Otherwise they'd have something resembling a personality in the first place?

If I understand your question correctly, I think the intent is to differentiate between traditional/modern AI (no personality, just a set of algorithms that perform a function) with sci-fi AI that has gained "sentience."

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Incidentally, for anyone disappointed with the Votann stuff, there's a small Kickstarter going on for some space dwarves clearly inspired by GW's unreleased 2nd edition Squats. Just 3 different sculpts that form a single squad, but they look quite nice to my eyes so I pledged for a set.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/curis/roknaut-space-dwarf-28mm-sci-fi-wargames-and-rpg-miniatures

They’re nice sculpts to be sure. But in the modern TLOS, a red flag to a bull to TFG if you try to use them in a game.

All the more reason for me to never play another game of 40k against another human being, then.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s the Scutters you need to watch for. Wilful little buggers, Scutters.

Or in their own words...

 KidCthulhu wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Incidentally, for anyone disappointed with the Votann stuff, there's a small Kickstarter going on for some space dwarves clearly inspired by GW's unreleased 2nd edition Squats. Just 3 different sculpts that form a single squad, but they look quite nice to my eyes so I pledged for a set.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/curis/roknaut-space-dwarf-28mm-sci-fi-wargames-and-rpg-miniatures

Not gonna lie, these really scratch the 2nd Edition "What Could Have Been" itch. Very nice indeed!

They are barely taller than their bolters and standing proud on goblin green bases. What more can you ask for?

If you like Rogue Trader style this KS looks very good, not my thing but it lookalike a modern version of the original squat designs.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/maggletminis/space-dwarfs-operation-army-28mm-miniatures

Looking forward to Warhammer Fest to see some new Votann stuff though. Maybe get a glimse of some of the wider range and maybe a hint of if/when an army box might be coming.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 KidCthulhu wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Incidentally, for anyone disappointed with the Votann stuff, there's a small Kickstarter going on for some space dwarves clearly inspired by GW's unreleased 2nd edition Squats. Just 3 different sculpts that form a single squad, but they look quite nice to my eyes so I pledged for a set.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/curis/roknaut-space-dwarf-28mm-sci-fi-wargames-and-rpg-miniatures

Not gonna lie, these really scratch the 2nd Edition "What Could Have Been" itch. Very nice indeed!

They are barely taller than their bolters and standing proud on goblin green bases. What more can you ask for?

I love those sculpts but IMHO there's no excuse for -as appears to be the case- making them noticably shorter than the GW/CITADEL originals.

I almost wonder if GW is "modernizing" the Squat design so much because they want to stand out from all these nostalgia-inspired models (and they're too numerous to to litigate all of them).

KillerAngel wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Re-reading the Votann Article, If they've only developed "personalities" as a result of their degradation, does that not suggest they aren't actually AI? Otherwise they'd have something resembling a personality in the first place?

If I understand your question correctly, I think the intent is to differentiate between traditional/modern AI (no personality, just a set of algorithms that perform a function) with sci-fi AI that has gained "sentience."

I don't think the article ever mentions AI.... maybe its not artificial? I'm wondering about the name "Ancestor Core". I think it would be very grim-dark and fit the setting to have the Votann actually be a bunch of no-longer-quite-living Ancestors hooked up to be part of a giant computer. It could explain the size, since the structure of the Votann has to entomb the bodies or brains. And that sort of technology could be similar to a dreadnought sarcophagus or even the golden throne.

It could also explain the degradation and the personalities. Maybe there are limitations to the technology, but out of reverence, respect, and tradition the Kin just keep plugging in additional Ancestors. Like a bunch of old brains talking and arguing over an answer. Maybe the brain in charge of outputting the answer delivers some chiding elderly criticism along with its response. Or maybe some brains start unexpectedly going dark... or some get infected with chaos.

gravitywell wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Re-reading the Votann Article, If they've only developed "personalities" as a result of their degradation, does that not suggest they aren't actually AI? Otherwise they'd have something resembling a personality in the first place?

If I understand your question correctly, I think the intent is to differentiate between traditional/modern AI (no personality, just a set of algorithms that perform a function) with sci-fi AI that has gained "sentience."

I don't think the article ever mentions AI.... maybe its not artificial? I'm wondering about the name "Ancestor Core". I think it would be very grim-dark and fit the setting to have the Votann actually be a bunch of no-longer-quite-living Ancestors hooked up to be part of a giant computer. It could explain the size, since the structure of the Votann has to entomb the bodies or brains. And that sort of technology could be similar to a dreadnought sarcophagus or even the golden throne.

It could also explain the degradation and the personalities. Maybe there are limitations to the technology, but out of reverence, respect, and tradition the Kin just keep plugging in additional Ancestors. Like a bunch of old brains talking and arguing over an answer. Maybe the brain in charge of outputting the answer delivers some chiding elderly criticism along with its response. Or maybe some brains start unexpectedly going dark... or some get infected with chaos.

Basically the big MT from fallout NV (not saying that is a bad thing btw), with great minds, prolonged long after they should have died, bickering.

I also like that there is then potential for renegade squats, with their AI core thinking noticeably differently and hugely disagreeing with the status quo to the point they do engage in armed conflict.

Anyway, only thing that bugs me is that if the AI/core things are capable of solving complex problems, why don't they solve the limited memory issue... Unless the squats don't want them too incase they become too powerfu.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Incidentally, for anyone disappointed with the Votann stuff, there's a small Kickstarter going on for some space dwarves clearly inspired by GW's unreleased 2nd edition Squats. Just 3 different sculpts that form a single squad, but they look quite nice to my eyes so I pledged for a set.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/curis/roknaut-space-dwarf-28mm-sci-fi-wargames-and-rpg-miniatures

They’re nice sculpts to be sure. But in the modern TLOS, a red flag to a bull to TFG if you try to use them in a game.

Nowt some tactical rocks couldn't fix

 KidCthulhu wrote:
I almost wonder if GW is "modernizing" the Squat design so much because they want to stand out from all these nostalgia-inspired models (and they're too numerous to to litigate all of them).

I assume that's part of it. Whether tweaking at the margins or full on PrimariSizing, GW does like to mix things up to stay ahead of the game.

A complete redesign seems unnecessary though as even a design more reminiscent of the fluff released as a plastic kit would far outsell any of the small shop figures. You can already buy small shop versions of almost any GW product you can name but folks still but the GW products more.

I forget which book, but in one of the HH books I recall Horus invading a planet because it has some DAOT tech all abut retaining ancestor wisdom in a from of a computer core he needed some intel from.

Its the one where Horus and Mortarion fought of some gunships that ambushed them.

DOes this not sound somewhat similar ?

N3p3nth3 wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Re-reading the Votann Article, If they've only developed "personalities" as a result of their degradation, does that not suggest they aren't actually AI? Otherwise they'd have something resembling a personality in the first place?

Clearly you don’t know many lawyers or bankers.

Underrated comment.

Bit more info.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/26/take-a-first-look-at-leagues-of-votann-rules-with-this-hearthkyn-warrior/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=votan-&fbclid=IwAR0w_mhxBIot0Tn5lJwiyy6HHl3IjpPDjfjR3D7TtwqbicF7jSQ85L6Yy_M





Interesting tidbit…

Long millennia spent isolated from the worst of the galaxy’s conflicts have done nothing to soften the Leagues of Votann.

Seems we won’t be getting “they were there all the time we just didn’t mention them”, rather “there’s a reason we’ve seen little of them”

That's a very creative statline!

/s

Grabbing my popcorn and waiting to see the forum's reaction to them being better Space Marine Scouts

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Ld7? Same as your average, run-of-the-mill Marine, or an Eldar Guardian, with maybe an 8 for the unit Sergant, and 8s across the board for the more elite infantry units?

Yeah I’m fairly sure you’re talking mince. Will check when I get in.

You may be right of course, but I suspect you’re not.

They called me a madman.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Bit more info.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/26/take-a-first-look-at-leagues-of-votann-rules-with-this-hearthkyn-warrior/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=votan-&fbclid=IwAR0w_mhxBIot0Tn5lJwiyy6HHl3IjpPDjfjR3D7TtwqbicF7jSQ85L6Yy_M





Interesting tidbit…

Long millennia spent isolated from the worst of the galaxy’s conflicts have done nothing to soften the Leagues of Votann.

Seems we won’t be getting “they were there all the time we just didn’t mention them”, rather “there’s a reason we’ve seen little of them”

5 inches movement? Way too fast. Needs to be reduced to 3.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Bit more info.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/26/take-a-first-look-at-leagues-of-votann-rules-with-this-hearthkyn-warrior/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=votan-&fbclid=IwAR0w_mhxBIot0Tn5lJwiyy6HHl3IjpPDjfjR3D7TtwqbicF7jSQ85L6Yy_M





Interesting tidbit…

Long millennia spent isolated from the worst of the galaxy’s conflicts have done nothing to soften the Leagues of Votann.

Seems we won’t be getting “they were there all the time we just didn’t mention them”, rather “there’s a reason we’ve seen little of them”

5 inches movement? Way too fast. Needs to be reduced to 3.

Squats are natural sprinters, very dangerous over short distances.

Ah good.

Hearthkyn™ and Thynes™!

Don't look too bad with that toughnes & juicy save, but the proof of the pudding will be in the points cost as everything is gearing towards a 2W meta

Little surprised at the 2A, but other than that about what I expected. Not a lot of room to play on the statline these days.

Combined with solid void-hardened armour and their knack for sticking around in close combat, these guys march in squads of up to 20 with high-tech guns blazing before charging in to mop up survivors.

So blobby squads, and sticky in combat. Interesting, depending what they mean by sticking around in combat.

This is of course matching the 2nd Ed Epic background, which described Squats as being tenacious in HTH, allowing them to re-roll 1’s, or 1’s and 2’s when fighting Orks specifically.

That’s the worst spelling of Thane I can imagine

 Strg Alt wrote:
5 inches movement? Way too fast. Needs to be reduced to 3.

They move faster because they have knees now.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ah good.

Hearthkyn™ and Thynes™!

We should just nuke Nottingham from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

I'm surprised by the S4 and A2. Not what I would have expected.

I believe that S3 and A1 would have been more appropriate. I suppose I can rationalize the S4, but not the A2, especially not the A2 if they're in units of 20.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Bit more info.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/26/take-a-first-look-at-leagues-of-votann-rules-with-this-hearthkyn-warrior/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=votan-&fbclid=IwAR0w_mhxBIot0Tn5lJwiyy6HHl3IjpPDjfjR3D7TtwqbicF7jSQ85L6Yy_M





Interesting tidbit…

Long millennia spent isolated from the worst of the galaxy’s conflicts have done nothing to soften the Leagues of Votann.

Seems we won’t be getting “they were there all the time we just didn’t mention them”, rather “there’s a reason we’ve seen little of them”

5 inches movement? Way too fast. Needs to be reduced to 3.

Squats are natural sprinters, very dangerous over short distances.

So M3" and auto advance 6"

 GaroRobe wrote:
That’s the worst spelling of Thane I can imagine

In their defence, it's an accepted variant of the spelling in Middle English.

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
That’s the worst spelling of Thane I can imagine

In their defence, it's an accepted variant of the spelling in Middle English.

It's the only one no-one else have registered yet?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ah good.

Hearthkyn™ and Thynes™!

Haven't they been calling themselves "Kin" in some of the background stuff? Why not internal consistency? I realize you need something to TM, but how about Hyrtthkin?

Would it have killed them to show a pic of at least one another model?

Also, l’m not sure I like them being as good as the primaris in melee.

"Hearthkyn" and "Theyn" fail in all the basic criteria for why you would want to use a weird custom word like this. Your competitors and imitators can still use "Hearthkin" and "Thane" to very easily circumvent your trademarks and copyrights and its so obvious to do so that those will be the terms predominantly used by everyone for that purpose as a simple matter of SEO.

 The Power Cosmic wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ah good.

Hearthkyn™ and Thynes™!

Haven't they been calling themselves "Kin" in some of the background stuff? Why not internal consistency? I realize you need something to TM, but how about Hyrtthkin?

Weirdly, given 'Kyn' is apparently a Nordic variant that's probably quite appropriate.

 Eilif wrote:

 KidCthulhu wrote:
I almost wonder if GW is "modernizing" the Squat design so much because they want to stand out from all these nostalgia-inspired models (and they're too numerous to to litigate all of them).

I assume that's part of it. Whether tweaking at the margins or full on PrimariSizing, GW does like to mix things up to stay ahead of the game.

A complete redesign seems unnecessary though as even a design more reminiscent of the fluff released as a plastic kit would far outsell any of the small shop figures. You can already buy small shop versions of almost any GW product you can name but folks still but the GW products more.

Doubtful honestly. GW are vast and for all the KS around, GW can remain true to their designs and still outsell them. Just look at Bloodbowl which is pretty faithful to its original designs.
I think its more that in 20-30 years GW's style of sculpting has gone through huge changes and classic Squats are just not a design that would fit with the current design work they do for 40K and look right in the setting. Sure they could play purely off the nostalgic element; but even then its been so long that I think Squats are a neat nostalgic trip, but I don't think there's a vast "need" for them to look the same.

It's not like Sisters of Battle which were at least sold in metal for a long while and had a lot of art and references and such.

Even the most recent Squat models in Necromunda were very much modern design themes.



Plus the creative staff at GW might well not even like the style of the old Squats. They might be totally new or even if they did work on the Squats, its so long ago their tastes and styles will likely have changed.



I don't see it as GW being afraid of any other market, but more GW just working with a theme and building it into something new within their modern designs.

So there's been a few mentions of them being starfarers, they "survive among the Stars", the reveal video had one of their ships arriving, the artwork shows them on a ship, and they're all wearing void-capable armour... sounds like they're probably going to be fleet-based after all.

A bit disappointed if that's the case as I think it limits what can be done with them quite a lot. Can't really have things like well defended planets with underground dwarf strongholds if they're stuck on ships. Also seems like something that overlaps with the Kharadron overlord theming a little, GW already has ship-based technologically advanced Dwarfs wearing enviroment suits.

I expect they'll retcon the Demiurg into being part of them, too...

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ah good.

Hearthkyn™ and Thynes™!

Haven't they been calling themselves "Kin" in some of the background stuff? Why not internal consistency? I realize you need something to TM, but how about Hyrtthkin?

Weirdly, given 'Kyn' is apparently a Nordic variant that's probably quite appropriate.

It's so easy!

 The Power Cosmic wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ah good.

Hearthkyn™ and Thynes™!

Haven't they been calling themselves "Kin" in some of the background stuff? Why not internal consistency? I realize you need something to TM, but how about Hyrtthkin?

Too much like clearing your throat?

Or possibly Sylvester and Tweetypie

 oni wrote:
I'm surprised by the S4 and A2. Not what I would have expected.

I believe that S3 and A1 would have been more appropriate. I suppose I can rationalize the S4, but not the A2, especially not the A2 if they're in units of 20.

So expected them to be useless chaff in melee?

Well they still are short of amazing wargear/special rules...

 Crimson wrote:
Would it have killed them to show a pic of at least one another model?

Saving all for Da Big announcement.

 GaroRobe wrote:
That’s the worst spelling of Thane I can imagine

And Thane is the worse spelling of Thegn I can imagine.

Very surprised about S4 and WS/BS3+, though I guess I shouldn't be.

I'm confused. We've seen about as much of squats as we have chaos marines at this point. Are squats going to drop much sooner than we think?

That statline is horrible.

Dudeface wrote:
I'm confused. We've seen about as much of squats as we have chaos marines at this point.

...aka nearly nothing compared to how much there is still to see?

Hyrthkyyn would have been better.

 krijthebold wrote:
Hyrthkyyn would have been better.

Only if we need confirmation that GW hires barely trained monkeys now. But do we need that?

 Geifer wrote:

 krijthebold wrote:
Hyrthkyyn would have been better.

Only if we need confirmation that GW hires barely trained monkeys now. But do we need that?

Now you've done it, they're Hyryrthkyyn now.

Is GW competing with Mierce in therms of silly names no one can pronounce?

May seem like a small thing but actually in therms of causal people looking for these minis on google or stores etc its a nightmare!

I would love to get the giant golem critter for my son how is it called again? xxyyvtpikin...or was it xxttytynilin screw that!

 krijthebold wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 krijthebold wrote:
Hyrthkyyn would have been better.

Only if we need confirmation that GW hires barely trained monkeys now. But do we need that?

Now you've done it, they're Hyryrthkyyn now.

Better. By doubling up on the "yr" you make it look deliberate and not like you hammered on your keyboard and used that sequence of letters as a unit name. That's all I ask for.

It's interesting that we now know that the model revealed is the basic infantry for the Leagues of Votann. I sort of suspected that it was, but I wasn't sure. The big question I have that remains unanswered is: Is that gun their basic gun, or is that the special gun for the squad?

 NAVARRO wrote:
Is GW competing with Mierce in therms of silly names no one can pronounce?

May seem like a small thing but actually in therms of causal people looking for these minis on google or stores etc its a nightmare!

I would love to get the giant golem critter for my son how is it called again? xxyyvtpikin...or was it xxttytynilin screw that!

I don't see how Hearthkin and Thane are meant to be hard to pronounce.

 Togusa wrote:
It's interesting that we now know that the model revealed is the basic infantry for the Leagues of Votann. I sort of suspected that it was, but I wasn't sure. The big question I have that remains unanswered is: Is that gun their basic gun, or is that the special gun for the squad?

They had already told us in the miniature reveal it was a basic soldier.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Is GW competing with Mierce in therms of silly names no one can pronounce?

May seem like a small thing but actually in therms of causal people looking for these minis on google or stores etc its a nightmare!

I would love to get the giant golem critter for my son how is it called again? xxyyvtpikin...or was it xxttytynilin screw that!

I don't see how Hearthkin and Thane are meant to be hard to pronounce.

I think NAVARRO is worried about spelling more than pronunciation. I can kind of see the point, but it's not a real problem when it comes down to it. In spite of GW's consistent inability to spell "Sigmarine" right, Google still provides people interested in Sigmarines with the right links. Always keep in mind that Google knows what we want better than we do.

chaos0xomega wrote:
"Hearthkyn" and "Theyn" fail in all the basic criteria for why you would want to use a weird custom word like this. Your competitors and imitators can still use "Hearthkin" and "Thane" to very easily circumvent your trademarks and copyrights and its so obvious to do so that those will be the terms predominantly used by everyone for that purpose as a simple matter of SEO.

Well said. I really don't expect people to be doing perfectly normal words but with a 'y' anymore. Its counterproductive, and just looks juvenile. (same as Magick!!!)


I'm also surprised by the statline. They're slow space marine scouts, but better. Aside from 4+ rather than 3+ armor, they're better than vanilla marines before the second wound happened. Offensively in melee, they are better than oldmarines. [between this and the chaos marine statline (and the HH box), I'm really expecting a new loyalist codex this year and oldmarines to stick around just be made even more better)

 Geifer wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Is GW competing with Mierce in therms of silly names no one can pronounce?

May seem like a small thing but actually in therms of causal people looking for these minis on google or stores etc its a nightmare!

I would love to get the giant golem critter for my son how is it called again? xxyyvtpikin...or was it xxttytynilin screw that!

I don't see how Hearthkin and Thane are meant to be hard to pronounce.

I think NAVARRO is worried about spelling more than pronunciation. I can kind of see the point, but it's not a real problem when it comes down to it. In spite of GW's consistent inability to spell "Sigmarine" right, Google still provides people interested in Sigmarines with the right links. Always keep in mind that Google knows what we want better than we do.

Yes thats it, English is not my first language and toys names should be easy to search for. Believe me I love Mierce sculpts but the names alone stop me from even browsing their site. Once everything and anything is written in such silly ways then all becomes abstract and a pain to navigate.
GW been steadily implementing weird names. Names like this are not easy to remember either. For me at least.

I have to say that I like the Squat statline.

Does anyone else think that the game has shifted from a 3+ save normal, to a 4+ save normal? 20 years ago almost everyone out there was rocking a 3+ save. Now we have Tau, Necron got demoted to 4+, we have Admech, Squats, etc. 4+ saves are now the new normal.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I have to say that I like the Squat statline.

Does anyone else think that the game has shifted from a 3+ save normal, to a 4+ save normal? 20 years ago almost everyone out there was rocking a 3+ save. Now we have Tau, Necron got demoted to 4+, we have Admech, Squats, etc. 4+ saves are now the new normal.

Well, I think 3+ is still the default (necron warriors & flayed ones aside), just due to the ubiquity of marines and resurgence of sisters, but otherwise yeah. 4+ is very much next, especially after the eldar revamps.
5+ and 6+ are the ones that have fallen off, and we'll see what happens to guard.

But I think it became a necessity after the weapons revamp. In practice... well. That's a discussion for elsewhere.

 krijthebold wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 krijthebold wrote:
Hyrthkyyn would have been better.

Only if we need confirmation that GW hires barely trained monkeys now. But do we need that?

Now you've done it, they're Hyryrthkyyn now.

Needs more apostrophes.


Took me a minute to even figure out what 'theyn' was supposed to be. Although I am still on my first coffee of the morning...

Voss wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I have to say that I like the Squat statline.

Does anyone else think that the game has shifted from a 3+ save normal, to a 4+ save normal? 20 years ago almost everyone out there was rocking a 3+ save. Now we have Tau, Necron got demoted to 4+, we have Admech, Squats, etc. 4+ saves are now the new normal.

Well, I think 3+ is still the default (necron warriors & flayed ones aside), just due to the ubiquity of marines and resurgence of sisters, but otherwise yeah. 4+ is very much next, especially after the eldar revamps.
5+ and 6+ are the ones that have fallen off, and we'll see what happens to guard.

But I think it became a necessity after the weapons revamp. In practice... well. That's a discussion for elsewhere.

I think it's funny that these new squats will invalidate a lot of the D2 weapons with their 1HP per model. Those marine killer guns won't be near as good against these old dwarfs.

 Geifer wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Is GW competing with Mierce in therms of silly names no one can pronounce?

May seem like a small thing but actually in therms of causal people looking for these minis on google or stores etc its a nightmare!

I would love to get the giant golem critter for my son how is it called again? xxyyvtpikin...or was it xxttytynilin screw that!

I don't see how Hearthkin and Thane are meant to be hard to pronounce.

I think NAVARRO is worried about spelling more than pronunciation. I can kind of see the point, but it's not a real problem when it comes down to it. In spite of GW's consistent inability to spell "Sigmarine" right, Google still provides people interested in Sigmarines with the right links. Always keep in mind that Google knows what we want better than we do.

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
Haven't they been calling themselves "Kin" in some of the background stuff? Why not internal consistency? I realize you need something to TM, but how about Hyrtthkin?

Or Hyrthkyn, so they can join the Fyreslyres in the silly use of 'y' in place of vowels.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I have to say that I like the Squat statline.

Does anyone else think that the game has shifted from a 3+ save normal, to a 4+ save normal? 20 years ago almost everyone out there was rocking a 3+ save. Now we have Tau, Necron got demoted to 4+, we have Admech, Squats, etc. 4+ saves are now the new normal.

Doesn´t matter if the store is full of SM players.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
Haven't they been calling themselves "Kin" in some of the background stuff? Why not internal consistency? I realize you need something to TM, but how about Hyrtthkin?

Or Hyrthkyn, so they can join the Fyreslyres in the silly use of 'y' in place of vowels.

I bet those Squats buy their tires from Fyrestone too.

 Geifer wrote:

 krijthebold wrote:
Hyrthkyyn would have been better.

Only if we need confirmation that GW hires barely trained monkeys now. But do we need that?

It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times???

S4 is a weird choice, but I guess that comes with the lethality of 9th. If they were WS/BS4+ and S3, how could they compete?

 insaniak wrote:
Took me a minute to even figure out what 'theyn' was supposed to be. Although I am still on my first coffee of the morning...

Now we have to wonder on the pronunciation.

They-n?
Th-ay-n?
Tay-n?
Tie-n?
Thyme?
Rosemary?



Also begs the questions:

Will they get Rune Smyths and Master Engyneers? Lyving Ancystors?

 Togusa wrote:

Voss wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I have to say that I like the Squat statline.

Does anyone else think that the game has shifted from a 3+ save normal, to a 4+ save normal? 20 years ago almost everyone out there was rocking a 3+ save. Now we have Tau, Necron got demoted to 4+, we have Admech, Squats, etc. 4+ saves are now the new normal.

Well, I think 3+ is still the default (necron warriors & flayed ones aside), just due to the ubiquity of marines and resurgence of sisters, but otherwise yeah. 4+ is very much next, especially after the eldar revamps.
5+ and 6+ are the ones that have fallen off, and we'll see what happens to guard.

But I think it became a necessity after the weapons revamp. In practice... well. That's a discussion for elsewhere.

I think it's funny that these new squats will invalidate a lot of the D2 weapons with their 1HP per model. Those marine killer guns won't be near as good against these old dwarfs.

Sisters apparently chopped liver over here...

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
So there's been a few mentions of them being starfarers, they "survive among the Stars", the reveal video had one of their ships arriving, the artwork shows them on a ship, and they're all wearing void-capable armour... sounds like they're probably going to be fleet-based after all.
I expect they'll retcon the Demiurg into being part of them, too...

Their first official tease in recent lore was the Psychic Awakening book, which also had a ship run into the ad mech

Dudeface wrote:
I'm confused. We've seen about as much of squats as we have chaos marines at this point. Are squats going to drop much sooner than we think?

Yeah this seems like a lot of info if they aren't coming for 3+months.. I'm thinking soon like June. Would they drop them in a Killteam box? On the one hand I want get my hands on them soon, but having to buy a big box at £100 for one squad would be taxing... Its probably more likely they are going an Army set but I wouldn't put it past them to unveil "and the first chance for you to play with your hearthkyn is in the new Killteam Set .."

On the stats - they look decent enough - I expected them to be a bit tougher, I wonder if "void hardened armour" might be a rule as well. Its sounding good- I'm hoping for a good look at the whole squad set and maybe a video glimpse of some of the rest of the range.

 Togusa wrote:
It's interesting that we now know that the model revealed is the basic infantry for the Leagues of Votann. I sort of suspected that it was, but I wasn't sure. The big question I have that remains unanswered is: Is that gun their basic gun, or is that the special gun for the squad?

I'm kind of hoping that the model all ready shown is a special weapons upgrade.

Now that the topic comes up, what do we think the stats for a basic Squat rifle will be? If it's just Bolter stats I'd bed disappointed and confused about why they just didn't model it as a bolter. My best guess? Assault 2, 18 inch range, strength 4, AP-.

EightFoldPath wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I recon T4 1W stat line because that's pretty much been vacated by the marines.
Anyone claiming thats not good enough forgets that vast portions of factions run 1w t3 infantry as basic troops...

M5 WS3 BS3 S4 T5 1W 2A 9Ld 3+ Save is my guess.
I could see S3 T4 but don't think Dwarves would like being less tough than Orks.
I could also see 2Ws on the first statline, as they go for an elite technological army.
The more like Space Marines they are, the more they will probably sell.
A Xenos Space Marine faction would seem like a good money maker.

Not a bad guess, got 6 right 3 wrong! Out by a pip of T, Ld and Sv. Argive was right on the vacated Space Marine stat line.

Overall they feel a bit Tau-ey in stats. Love the ancestor computers, I really hope we get a giant floating head model the size of a monolith.

Neat. Seems like a very reasonable stat line. And I'd say that it suits the model.

Without some idea of what their weapons look like, it's pretty hard to judge how effective these guys will be. Whatever their weapon stats turn out to be, I hope that the revealed model is holding the standard-issue weapon for the hearthkyn, because it looks sweet!

I also can't help but feel that GW really ought to be emphasizing that the Leagues both possess and *understand* Dark Age technology. It seems like this is going to be pretty important for justifying their abilities in the game, and some people seem to be overlooking this bit of the background.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Also begs the questions:

Will they get Rune Smyths and Master Engyneers? Lyving Ancystors?

Now I'm wondering if the Dyspossessed will get their own book, or still stuck in the next Cyties of Sigmar Battletoom™.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
S4 is a weird choice, but I guess that comes with the lethality of 9th. If they were WS/BS4+ and S3, how could they compete?

 insaniak wrote:
Took me a minute to even figure out what 'theyn' was supposed to be. Although I am still on my first coffee of the morning...

Now we have to wonder on the pronunciation.

They-n?
Th-ay-n?
Tay-n?
Tie-n?
Thyme?
Rosemary?

That's what you get from speaking English. In German it's easy: Täin (Teyn).

Also waiting to see if the plural of 'Theyn' is 'Themn'.

 insaniak wrote:

Also waiting to see if the plural of 'Theyn' is 'Themn'.

Well played Insaniak, well played. My braid registered "the inn" before coffee kicked in.

It's adorable that the basic NuSquat units will be taken in up to 20 size with those measly stats while the vastly superior guardsman statline is limited to units of 10.

M.

Eh. Unless they have some sort of fearless or combat attrition immunity, why would anyone take them as twenty?
T4 and 4+ with Ld7 is an invitation for more of the unit to just vanish inexplicably.

 Miguelsan wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Also waiting to see if the plural of 'Theyn' is 'Themn'.

Well played Insaniak, well played. My braid registered "the inn" before coffee kicked in.

It's adorable that the basic NuSquat units will be taken in up to 20 size with those measly stats while the vastly superior guardsman statline is limited to units of 10.

M.

Remind me again when Codex: Astra Militarum came out?

Skitarii got bumped to 20 model maximums. This isn't a huge surprise.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Also waiting to see if the plural of 'Theyn' is 'Themn'.

Well played Insaniak, well played. My braid registered "the inn" before coffee kicked in.

It's adorable that the basic NuSquat units will be taken in up to 20 size with those measly stats while the vastly superior guardsman statline is limited to units of 10.

M.

Remind me again when Codex: Astra Militarum came out?

Skitarii got bumped to 20 model maximums. This isn't a huge surprise.

Sure, October 2017. But since that time GW could have changed it at anytime the same way IG got Hammer of the Emperor, or Cadian conscripts got to use orders, yet GW didn't. Must be because they thing 10 man is the optimal size for those super strong IG.

M.

It's super optimal. Look at all the free stuff they get now.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's super optimal. Look at all the free stuff they get now.

Fear the 2 attacks Power Sword sergeant!

M.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
Haven't they been calling themselves "Kin" in some of the background stuff? Why not internal consistency? I realize you need something to TM, but how about Hyrtthkin?

Or Hyrthkyn, so they can join the Fyreslyres in the silly use of 'y' in place of vowels.

Modern Games Wyrkshop naming at it's best.

 cuda1179 wrote:

Now that the topic comes up, what do we think the stats for a basic Squat rifle will be? If it's just Bolter stats I'd bed disappointed and confused about why they just didn't model it as a bolter. My best guess? Assault 2, 18 inch range, strength 4, AP-.

That would have been good weapon in 3rd ed. Stat infilation has left that bit of lacking...

Though AoC does compensate for that so maybe now it's not that bad again as -1 AP has become quite weak again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Miguelsan wrote:


Sure, October 2017. But since that time GW could have changed it at anytime the same way IG got Hammer of the Emperor, or Cadian conscripts got to use orders, yet GW didn't. Must be because they thing 10 man is the optimal size for those super strong IG.

M.

Then again 20 strong chaff isn't that hot...Yeah you COULD run them in 20...but you need some pretty good stratagems to make it worth it.

 GaroRobe wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 krijthebold wrote:
Hyrthkyyn would have been better.

Only if we need confirmation that GW hires barely trained monkeys now. But do we need that?

It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times???

I'll be disappointed if a remembrancer isn't quoted saying that in the last Siege of Terra book.

 Miguelsan wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Also waiting to see if the plural of 'Theyn' is 'Themn'.

Well played Insaniak, well played. My braid registered "the inn" before coffee kicked in.

It's adorable that the basic NuSquat units will be taken in up to 20 size with those measly stats while the vastly superior guardsman statline is limited to units of 10.

M.

In game terms Imperial Guard is held back, if you will, by adherence to long established and oft repeated doctrine. If GW felt the need to do anything about squad sizes, I'd expect them to have another look at platoons before they go above ten man squads for normal infantry..

Squats are returning post Chapterhouse with all the Sigmarization that may entail after a long absence that makes sure the overwhelming majority of players doesn't know a thing about them beyond the name. It's not a comparable situation. Squats exist entirely in the 8th ed design framework with no legacy to tie them to less functional or obsolete rule design.

That might even be a good thing. Imagine if GW had given unit and weapon statlines a complete overhaul at the start of 8th ed instead of slowly rolling out bandaids during 9th ed. We might have gotten a better rule set with a solid foundation if they had thought things through from the start. Squats should at least play decently in the environment they are thrown in since they're specifically designed for it, if GW even has the least bit of understanding of how their game works.

 silverstu wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
I'm confused. We've seen about as much of squats as we have chaos marines at this point. Are squats going to drop much sooner than we think?

Yeah this seems like a lot of info if they aren't coming for 3+months.. I'm thinking soon like June. Would they drop them in a Killteam box? On the one hand I want get my hands on them soon, but having to buy a big box at £100 for one squad would be taxing... Its probably more likely they are going an Army set but I wouldn't put it past them to unveil "and the first chance for you to play with your hearthkyn is in the new Killteam Set .."

Octarius was mid-August, Chalnath was end of October (2.5 months), Nachmund was mid-March (4.5 months) so mid-June would be about the earliest start of the slot for the next KT box, this summer certainly and probably within the 3-month preview window. And, well, flogging 10 squats for 150e with some bonus stuff is what I would do as GW.

N3p3nth3 wrote:

 silverstu wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
I'm confused. We've seen about as much of squats as we have chaos marines at this point. Are squats going to drop much sooner than we think?

Yeah this seems like a lot of info if they aren't coming for 3+months.. I'm thinking soon like June. Would they drop them in a Killteam box? On the one hand I want get my hands on them soon, but having to buy a big box at £100 for one squad would be taxing... Its probably more likely they are going an Army set but I wouldn't put it past them to unveil "and the first chance for you to play with your hearthkyn is in the new Killteam Set .."

Octarius was mid-August, Chalnath was end of October (2.5 months), Nachmund was mid-March (4.5 months) so mid-June would be about the earliest start of the slot for the next KT box, this summer certainly and probably within the 3-month preview window. And, well, flogging 10 squats for 150e with some bonus stuff is what I would do as GW.

As it's a new range entirely from scratch GW will almost certain split up the first model releases. A KT box alone might be too small to help with that. With the preview timing we're seeing and number of new kits expected for both factions, I'm starting to expect a Shadowspear-style boxed set with CSM vs Squats.

Then once people have had time to paint up their first few hundred points of Squats there's another wave later in the year with the rest of the faction plus a codex.

EightFoldPath wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I recon T4 1W stat line because that's pretty much been vacated by the marines.
Anyone claiming thats not good enough forgets that vast portions of factions run 1w t3 infantry as basic troops...

M5 WS3 BS3 S4 T5 1W 2A 9Ld 3+ Save is my guess.
I could see S3 T4 but don't think Dwarves would like being less tough than Orks.
I could also see 2Ws on the first statline, as they go for an elite technological army.
The more like Space Marines they are, the more they will probably sell.
A Xenos Space Marine faction would seem like a good money maker.

Not a bad guess, got 6 right 3 wrong! Out by a pip of T, Ld and Sv. Argive was right on the vacated Space Marine stat line.

Overall they feel a bit Tau-ey in stats. Love the ancestor computers, I really hope we get a giant floating head model the size of a monolith.

The only thing I don't like is the 2A seems odd to give these guys the same basic attacks stat line as a primaris marine..

Heaven forbid that the precious primaris marines don't have a monopoly on a good stat. I guess no other troop should have the same strength or toughness either.

I think it looks interesting. Not enough info yet, but it looks like they may be carving out a unique faction profile. If so, I'm in.

New hover trike is up on the warhammer community site.
Not sure how I feel about it

punisher357 wrote:
New hover trike is up on the warhammer community site.
Not sure how I feel about it

I’m not sure I like it in isolation. As in, as a single model for 40K.

I think (hope?) that’ll change when we see it in the greater context of the full Squat army.

Particularly it’s “NHS Crockery Blue” hull colour!

It's interesting that they decided not to reveal the rest of the basic squad

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
It's interesting that they decided not to reveal the rest of the basic squad

I’m mildly disappointed we didn’t see more to be honest. But I guess we can conclude Squats are at least 3 or so months away?

It looks like a hover street sweeper, the circular disc as a-grav lift for the bike is not a good design choice.

Also, is that a goliath stub cannon she's holding

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
It's interesting that they decided not to reveal the rest of the basic squad

Not entirely impossible that they're one of the kill teams on Friday. KT as a fore-runner to a proper release seems to be a thing (and is quite sensible from a business perspective, gauge level of interest with a smaller release)

I like the bike. It's got a "bulky trike" feel to it, and it's clearly not a knock-off of any of the other races. It looks like a combat vehicle. It makes me hopeful for the larger League vehicle designs.

KillerAngel wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
That’s the worst spelling of Thane I can imagine

And Thane is the worse spelling of Thegn I can imagine.

...are you married yet..?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
It's interesting that they decided not to reveal the rest of the basic squad

I’m mildly disappointed we didn’t see more to be honest. But I guess we can conclude Squats are at least 3 or so months away?

I feel the same. We still lack the overall design view on the Kin as an army. As much as I appreciate the vehicle with the female scout it does not bring a clear design context on its own.

I was hopeful for the trikes/bikes and my hope was the first step on the road to damnation.

I'll just continue with my KO Squats.

I like the trike, it's a clever aesthetic choice. It has early imperial vibes, similar to the castellan robots. But then it has diverged to it's own thing. That is what I want from new squats. I hope for a helmet. The rider is a bit meh.

Chopstick wrote:
It looks like a hover street sweeper, the circular disc as a-grav lift for the bike is not a good design choice.

Also, is that a goliath stub cannon she's holding

Nah, not a street sweeper:

https://www.lidl.de/p/philips-rotationsrasierer-s1131-41-mit-27-selbstscharfenden-klingen/p100342397?mktc=shopping_shop&gclid=Cj0KCQjwyMiTBhDKARIsAAJ-9VtXDEsVw4wHY-rC1kqGW0c0zKauXmLBOr7zusAoJVG_b3RWbRYAzloaAkUnEALw_wcB

Glad they got a trike even if i don't really like it

(maybe painted so the driver doesn't meld with the trike so much may help?)

armor on the trike gives me vibes of Man of Iron from blackstone Fortress in it's shapes, as say compared to mechanicus robots.

Catulle wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
That’s the worst spelling of Thane I can imagine

And Thane is the worse spelling of Thegn I can imagine.

...are you married yet..?

Wut

KillerAngel wrote:

Catulle wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
That’s the worst spelling of Thane I can imagine

And Thane is the worse spelling of Thegn I can imagine.

...are you married yet..?

Wut

Bro they askin if you single

Badly proportioned body with a Gnomes head on a Norelco Electric Razor.

Really wasn't expecting to see more squats so soon. The bike is great, really fun aesthetic and I love the rider. Really gives me some scout/Browncoat vibes.

I'm glad they didn't plaster guns allover it too. Really looking forward to seeing more!

 TalonZahn wrote:
Badly proportioned body with a Gnomes head on a Norelco Electric Razor.

But enough about me, eh?

The white and teal colour scheme, and the bulky trike, makes me think of AT-43 Karmans. I do miss my albino gorilla dudes.

The armor plate design of the revealed basic trooper seemed reminiscent of the AT-43 Karmans.

I see a backpack and what looks like a shovel on that trike as well. That is a lot of non-combat stuff being carried around (as compared to the bike equivalents of other factions) and I wonder whether the point is to show them as nomadic.

Iracundus wrote:
The armor plate design of the revealed basic trooper seemed reminiscent of the AT-43 Karmans.

I see a backpack and what looks like a shovel on that trike as well. That is a lot of non-combat stuff being carried around (as compared to the bike equivalents of other factions) and I wonder whether the point is to show them as nomadic.

“Pioneer” kinda covers it.

Iracundus wrote:
The armor plate design of the revealed basic trooper seemed reminiscent of the AT-43 Karmans.

I see a backpack and what looks like a shovel on that trike as well. That is a lot of non-combat stuff being carried around (as compared to the bike equivalents of other factions) and I wonder whether the point is to show them as nomadic.

I think more that this unit is called a Pioneer and is a forward scout, rather than them being nomadic.

 Olthannon wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
The armor plate design of the revealed basic trooper seemed reminiscent of the AT-43 Karmans.

I see a backpack and what looks like a shovel on that trike as well. That is a lot of non-combat stuff being carried around (as compared to the bike equivalents of other factions) and I wonder whether the point is to show them as nomadic.

I think more that this unit is called a Pioneer and is a forward scout, rather than them being nomadic.

The silhouette of one of the other Squats had what looked like a pick-axe. So they seem to be carrying mining/entrenching stuff with them. Maybe nomadic isn't entirely the right word but it seems to show them with industrial/mining stuff, which may fit with the old idea of the Squat wargear being repurposed/redesigned industrial and mining equipment.

 Momotaro wrote:

 TalonZahn wrote:
Badly proportioned body with a Gnomes head on a Norelco Electric Razor.

But enough about me, eh?

The white and teal colour scheme, and the bulky trike, makes me think of AT-43 Karmans. I do miss my albino gorilla dudes.

Yea, I just can't place the aesthetic.

It's really odd for a "40k" look.... like... Imperial + Tau or something...AT-43 Karmans is a good call also.

I don't see/get a feel of Tech Dwarves/Squats etc.

The new Necromunda bikes + Dwarves may have been better?

Iracundus wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
The armor plate design of the revealed basic trooper seemed reminiscent of the AT-43 Karmans.

I see a backpack and what looks like a shovel on that trike as well. That is a lot of non-combat stuff being carried around (as compared to the bike equivalents of other factions) and I wonder whether the point is to show them as nomadic.

I think more that this unit is called a Pioneer and is a forward scout, rather than them being nomadic.

The silhouette of one of the other Squats had what looked like a pick-axe. So they seem to be carrying mining/entrenching stuff with them. Maybe nomadic isn't entirely the right word but it seems to show them with industrial/mining stuff, which may fit with the old idea of the Squat wargear being repurposed/redesigned industrial and mining equipment.

In the video commentary, they mentioned something about them going ahead of the fleets.. so maybe they are space bound?

Definitely Karmans. I have a sneaking suspicion that I will try to assemble a League force using nothing but gorillas. I have 2 shotgun cases full of Karmans, so I should be able to sub out pretty much everything.

Plus, that should make my buddies furious that I found a use for the Karmans again.

Not my cup of tea, but glad to see that they're harkening the designs back to old models like they should be.

Looks like crap, like the rest of what we have seen of the Squats.

The Trike has somewhat made me a bit more optimistic about them. The original model was a bit bland but this has a somewhat retro/diesel-punk feel, reminiscent of the Imperial Robots or something about of the Fallout series. I quite like that.

I just wish it wasn't yet more hover-tech, there's enough of that already. I hope that all of their vehicles aren't anti-grav.


quote=Olthannon 804349 11358175 cec6bb1c0a2162d90463899bbf142e15.jpg]

Iracundus wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
The armor plate design of the revealed basic trooper seemed reminiscent of the AT-43 Karmans.

I see a backpack and what looks like a shovel on that trike as well. That is a lot of non-combat stuff being carried around (as compared to the bike equivalents of other factions) and I wonder whether the point is to show them as nomadic.

I think more that this unit is called a Pioneer and is a forward scout, rather than them being nomadic.

The silhouette of one of the other Squats had what looked like a pick-axe. So they seem to be carrying mining/entrenching stuff with them. Maybe nomadic isn't entirely the right word but it seems to show them with industrial/mining stuff, which may fit with the old idea of the Squat wargear being repurposed/redesigned industrial and mining equipment.

In the video commentary, they mentioned something about them going ahead of the fleets.. so maybe they are space bound?

It's really had to judge when we really have only one basic infantry unit and a bike to go on and some basic artwork.


Right now the bike gives me a "wild west" feel with the long coat, revolver shotgun and the packs of stuff on the back of the bike. It's very much like something straight out of Brave Star. Which if they go down the mining-pathway with them, could be a big core focus of some design choices.

Heck we've already got Ad Mech riding on robot-horses and Genestealer Cults have a good number of "I'm a space cowboy" styles and mining influences. So it almost feels like either they will follow those themes, or branch off with their own angle or something else entirely.
Perhaps less miners and more rangers, railroad operators and such would be the influence.

Then again it might just be this one unit. Many armies have units that are outliers or which vary the styles. Heck look at Tau they've two totally separate aesthetics in their army.



As for the fleets, I'm going to assume that the fleets are just the general fleets of their spaceforce rather than them being totally a spacefaring and living race. I would assume they have worlds of their own.

What a weird design. Being grav is unsurprising, but it looks like it's supposed to transform into a Kastelan robot.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

punisher357 wrote:
New hover trike is up on the warhammer community site.
Not sure how I feel about it

I’m not sure I like it in isolation. As in, as a single model for 40K.

I think (hope?) that’ll change when we see it in the greater context of the full Squat army.

Particularly it’s “NHS Crockery Blue” hull colour!

I absolutely hate the color choices. No contrast at all.

I don't love it but I don't loathe it. It might look better with a 3rd party wheel conversion and a helmeted head?

It's growing on me. Colors do it no favors, but replacing the matrix hover discs with plain old wheels would look out of place with the DAoT styling.

Pretty close to Van Saar green isn't it.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
It's growing on me. Colors do it no favors, but replacing the matrix hover discs with plain old wheels would look out of place with the DAoT styling.

I don't see how really. Imperial Wheeled vehicles are based on DAoT STC designs too. Being somewhat more advanced/sophisticated than Imperial designs doesn't necessary mean that everything has to hover.

 insaniak wrote:

Spoiler:

What a weird design. Being grav is unsurprising, but it looks like it's supposed to transform into a Kastelan robot.

Twitter is on the case
https://twitter.com/TheManufactorum/status/1521920419489628162

I love the colors. I think while it avoids the pure earth tons of IG, it also isn't heraldric or bright. I hope the retro-future vibe shows up in other models.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
It's growing on me. Colors do it no favors, but replacing the matrix hover discs with plain old wheels would look out of place with the DAoT styling.

I don't see how really. Imperial Wheeled vehicles are based on DAoT STC designs too. Being somewhat more advanced/sophisticated than Imperial designs doesn't necessary mean that everything has to hover.

You need to understand that STCs are not equal, and never were.

Early ones were kind of smart hard drives. They held the info, but one needed Google-Fu to find the answer.

Latter day ones were at least semi-sentient industrial replicators.

Add in The Imperium largely works from STC Generated Blueprints, and I trust you can see the potential difference.

I was really hoping to see the rest of the basic infantry squad before anything else. The bike is pretty meh to me, especially since my only real interest in these is for killteam.

It's odd that the grav mechanics look like half a bike wheel bolted on upside down by an Ork.

I think I'll have to do a little bit of conversion work there.

I like that a lot more than I expected. The "dwarfs on bikes" part of the old Squat lore was always the least interesting part to me. But this looks pretty excellent!

Really like how the design evokes the Dark Age tech that we see on the Kastelans! It has an almost Fallout kind of retro-futurist look to it, and I love it!

Also, the bolt shotgun is bad ass! Really loving both gun designs that we've seen so far!

Yeah, I'm digging the vaguely dieselpunk art deco/streamline moderne stylings of the bike personally.... although the colorscheme they chose makes me think that the design brief was "make them Warmachines Crucible Guard, but short".

Would've preferred a Kettenkrad-type setup.

It looks very round, like a car from Dragon Ball or some other old school animes like Appleseed.

I would like to see the trike in an olive drab, I think that would give a very different vibe.

Either/Or wrote:
I would like to see the trike in an olive drab, I think that would give a very different vibe.

The dull red from the tool case on the back would be interesting- swap that and the teal.

The paint scheme they've chosen for the studio army does these models no favours.

The rider is indistinct form the bike itself, and there's so much going on with the bike that it's hard to tell where the bike ends and the rider begins.

Thank the Holy STCs that run the Squat Empire that she's not wearing a helmet, otherwise we mightn't've known she was even there!

It kinda make sense from a practical pov, you don't want to make the driver an even easier target.

The coat being high-tech is interesting. I guess it makes sense why a squat would want to wear it over their armor, I guess? Though why whatever tech the coat sports couldn't be implemented in the armor is anyone guess

 GaroRobe wrote:
The coat being high-tech is interesting. I guess it makes sense why a squat would want to wear it over their armor, I guess? Though why whatever tech the coat sports couldn't be implemented in the armor is anyone guess

Some sort of sensor cloaking materials? Maybe it absorbs/blurs radar/lidar/ thermal signatures in a way the hard armor cant?

 GaroRobe wrote:
The coat being high-tech is interesting. I guess it makes sense why a squat would want to wear it over their armor, I guess? Though why whatever tech the coat sports couldn't be implemented in the armor is anyone guess

...perhaps it's just there because of the rule of cool?

I understand that we like to find in-universe explanations for things, but honestly, I'm pretty sure most of the design elements that we see on any model exist only because they look interesting or impressive.

Maybe this Kin just likes to slay fools in style?

The new trike is decent enough. Not awesome. Not awful.

Still have interest.

I was wondering how does the bike lands when it stops hoovering? Do the fans rotate up?

There's potential there but I'm really not a fan of the anti-grav; genuinely would have preferred just some actual wheels. That, strip back the amount of superfluous bits tacked on, give it a grungier paint job and we're talking.

Was initially Wtf - felt the same when I saw the Kharadron, and similarly I really like it. Love the diesel punk stylings - the curved forms and the guns. It all has a nice feeling of weight about it without the brick-ness of Marine stuff. The grav tech looks good, again nice and heavy and strange, very different from other races.
The overcoat and the pioneer stuff is obviously a link back to the guild bikers with their coats and they used their bikes to travel between holds. Hence the independent idea they are pushing. Also great that there are female squats, hoping for some for Kharadrons at some point.

I would like to see this in a different scheme and a whole squad of them, or beside a squad of the infantry. It is quite difficult to get a good sense of their overall visual style when they just show off single minis. I was disappointed we didn't see more- thought we would see the rest of the infantry squad that were in silhouette. Which does lead me back to the nagging feeling they might be appearing in the next killteam. Probably not, but overall I'd just really like to see more, even if just of the units the revealed minis belong to. But they look like a lot of fun.

I like it except for the handgun/revolver/slide shotgun. It just doesn't make sense to me, and made me feel uncomfortable looking at it.

 firmlog wrote:
I like it except for the handgun/revolver/slide shotgun. It just doesn't make sense to me, and made me feel uncomfortable looking at it.

I really like that gun! Doubtless there will be other weapon options for riders so I wouldn't think you'd be stuck with it. I'm wondering of there will be a heavy weapon trike version like the old school ones. Maybe pioneers on foot as a scout unit with those cool overcoats [possiblythe coats are status as much as practical].
Also will this hover-tech go across the vehicles - could see some heavy crawlers too.

I think it looks pretty cool - they've managed to reference the classic miniature idea and do something new with it.

So - Votaan, how are we pronouncing that?

Hard 'T' like VoTTaan?
Voh-taaan?
Voh-tane?
VoTTane?

 Pacific wrote:
I think it looks pretty cool - they've managed to reference the classic miniature idea and do something new with it.

So - Votaan, how are we pronouncing that?

Hard 'T' like VoTTaan?
Voh-taaan?
Voh-tane?
VoTTane?

Voh-taaan for me..

I'm fine with it being anti-grav since they're meant to stand apart from the Imperium as being more technologically advanced, and now that half of the new stuff (especially Primaris) is floating it would be a bit weirder if they weren't, since grav is 40k's codeword for "advanced technology."

I'm not big on the colour scheme. I was fine with the almost-GSC colours on the initial reveal, but the Sons of Horus bike combined with the rider feels a bit... blah?

The duster over the armour I'm not a fan of. Robes and jackets over power armour is nothing new, but it gives the rider a very 'squished' appearance - can imagine them sweating buckets beneath a jumpsuit, armour and now that thick coat.

 Pacific wrote:

So - Votaan, how are we pronouncing that?

Hard 'T' like VoTTaan?
Voh-taaan?
Voh-tane?
VoTTane?

I'm just pronouncing it 'Squat'...

Kinda like the trike, wonder what it would look like if some wheels were converted onto it.

It already has suspension, is it normal for hover bikes to have that?

 insaniak wrote:

 Pacific wrote:

So - Votaan, how are we pronouncing that?

Hard 'T' like VoTTaan?
Voh-taaan?
Voh-tane?
VoTTane?

I'm just pronouncing it 'Squat'...

Or maybe just Kin.

 Pacific wrote:
Hard 'T' like VoTTaan?
Voh-taaan?
Voh-tane?
VoTTane?

The "Vo" is silent, and there's a triple "P" sound that you wouldn't know about just by looking at it.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Or maybe just Kin.

I think you mean Kyn™.

Which in itself could be "kih-n" or "ky-nn".

 firmlog wrote:
I like it except for the handgun/revolver/slide shotgun. It just doesn't make sense to me, and made me feel uncomfortable looking at it.

I know what you mean. There are a lot of well detailed real-world mechanisms going on there, but taken all together on that platform makes no sense.

So its break-open to access the cylinder, and pump-action, on a weapon being used one-handed by someone driving a vehicle by handlebars

You could do all of these things, but why would you?

I like the model, i dont like the driver having a longcoat. Maybe they come from a ice planet jugging from the collor of the coat

 insaniak wrote:


What a weird design. Being grav is unsurprising, but it looks like it's supposed to transform into a Kastelan robot.

Handgun is bigger than the vehicle weapon.

I shudder to think what would happen to that poor girl's wrist when she actually fires that thing.

That thing isn't a handgun, it is a shotgun.
Which means it's going to have a lot of recoil.

So unless she's actually a T-800, she's going to lose that arm.

I quite like how it shares a design language with the Battle Automata.

As I said before, I really want to see this in the wider design context of the army.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Hard 'T' like VoTTaan?
Voh-taaan?
Voh-tane?
VoTTane?

The "Vo" is silent, and there's a triple "P" sound that you wouldn't know about just by looking at it.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Or maybe just Kin.

I think you mean Kyn™.

Which in itself could be "kih-n" or "ky-nn".

Oh Snap!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I quite like how it shares a design language with the Battle Automata.

As I said before, I really want to see this in the wider design context of the army.

I can envision a big Dwarf suit with these round design choices.

I can't stop humming Knights of Cydonia now. Wonder if there's a Muse fan on the design team?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I shudder to think what would happen to that poor girl's wrist when she actually fires that thing.

That thing isn't a handgun, it is a shotgun.
Which means it's going to have a lot of recoil.

So unless she's actually a T-800, she's going to lose that arm.

Shot many shotguns have you? A normal real-life hummie can shoot a 12ga shotgun one handed just fine (Youtube is full of examples). Comfortable? No. Effective? No. Doable? Yes. Plus, felt recoil is proportional to weapon weight, and this weapon looks decently heavy.

This is a sci-fi universe after all. Don't overthink it.

Does this rumour engine picture seem like it could be for Squats?



The Trike has a somewhat similar design its with coil/spring suspension with a metal bar that has a grove in it above, I can't find any other miniatures that look too similar and the tire doesn't match anything else either. I hope it is for them as all anti-grav would be a disapointment (Like an Anti-grav Land Train wouldn't be as cool)

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Does this rumour engine picture seem like it could be for Squats?

It could, but I think it's just as likely to be the rumoured CSM bikers.

 xttz wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Does this rumour engine picture seem like it could be for Squats?

It could, but I think it's just as likely to be the rumoured CSM bikers.

It doesn't seem evokative of how that part on either Imperial or Chaos designs are usually, though. The only thing I've seen that seems slightly similar is how it is on that Squat trike.

 Pacific wrote:
I think it looks pretty cool - they've managed to reference the classic miniature idea and do something new with it.

So - Votaan, how are we pronouncing that?

Hard 'T' like VoTTaan?
Voh-taaan?
Voh-tane?
VoTTane?

I am pronouncing its as.... squat

 Breotan wrote:
It's odd that the grav mechanics look like half a bike wheel bolted on upside down by an Ork.

I think I'll have to do a little bit of conversion work there.

It is really weird that the grav thrusters look exactly like wheels. To much of a transformers look.

Glad the Squats are getting bikes and the long coat is a nice throwback. I even think I understand why they're moving toward a 30k aesthetic in some ways, but still not impressed by the overall design.

What’s funny to me is how much of the bikes internal stuff is recycled mechanics from some of the ork buggies

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
What’s funny to me is how much of the bikes internal stuff is recycled mechanics from some of the ork buggies

I've seen this sort of thing mentioned a few times but I don't get it, what do you mean?

KillerAngel wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I shudder to think what would happen to that poor girl's wrist when she actually fires that thing.

That thing isn't a handgun, it is a shotgun.
Which means it's going to have a lot of recoil.

So unless she's actually a T-800, she's going to lose that arm.

Shot many shotguns have you? A normal real-life hummie can shoot a 12ga shotgun one handed just fine (Youtube is full of examples). Comfortable? No. Effective? No. Doable? Yes. Plus, felt recoil is proportional to weapon weight, and this weapon looks decently heavy.

This is a sci-fi universe after all. Don't overthink it.

I did, actually, and I wouldn't want to one hand it.
Then again, it was a hunting shotgun.

Also, you are aware that she's supposed to be in battle? You sort of want to be able to use a weapon effectively when you're getting shot at.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
What’s funny to me is how much of the bikes internal stuff is recycled mechanics from some of the ork buggies

I've seen this sort of thing mentioned a few times but I don't get it, what do you mean?

Since they use a 3d design thing, it’s very easy to just reuse elements used on other 3d designed models. As such, the suspensions from ork buggies were used in this, which is kinda funny, meaning orks are using old age stc tech, or stc’s are very bad.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
What’s funny to me is how much of the bikes internal stuff is recycled mechanics from some of the ork buggies

I've seen this sort of thing mentioned a few times but I don't get it, what do you mean?

Since they use a 3d design thing, it’s very easy to just reuse elements used on other 3d designed models. As such, the suspensions from ork buggies were used in this, which is kinda funny, meaning orks are using old age stc tech, or stc’s are very bad.

Having a quick look at the various ork buggies, I can't tell which suspensions you're referring to specifically.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
What’s funny to me is how much of the bikes internal stuff is recycled mechanics from some of the ork buggies

I've seen this sort of thing mentioned a few times but I don't get it, what do you mean?

Since they use a 3d design thing, it’s very easy to just reuse elements used on other 3d designed models. As such, the suspensions from ork buggies were used in this, which is kinda funny, meaning orks are using old age stc tech, or stc’s are very bad.

Or form follows function? No need to reinvent the grav disc after all.

It looks as if there's might be empty space where the ankle should be on the Hernkyn (it doesn't seem to connect to their leg properly) with it covered over by their clothing. Either that Hernkyn has cybernetic feet after all, or for some strange reason they're putting boots on mechanical parts.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:


It looks as if there's might be empty space where the ankle should be on the Hernkyn (it doesn't seem to connect to their leg properly) with it covered over by their clothing. Either that Hernkyn has cybernetic feet after all, or for some strange reason they're putting boots on mechanical parts.

I'd like to get the physical model in-hand before making any rulings on it. These might not be the true final models. It wouldn't be the first time GW used a preproduction model in promo pics. It might have gotten tweeked before mass production. Heck, it may not even be assembled correctly, which has popped up in some promo pics too.

With but a few tweaks...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
With but a few tweaks...

That does look better in some ways, although it's now more of a Space tractor than a Space Street Sweeper.

A helmet and beard for the pilot is definitely an improvement, it's a shame that the miniatures probably won't be able to have beards like that without significant changes. Just a baffling design choice to have armour for Space Dwarfs that doesn't would block a big beard.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
With but a few tweaks...

Heck yeah!

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Also, you are aware that she's supposed to be in battle? You sort of want to be able to use a weapon effectively when you're getting shot at.

I said don't overthink it! I'm sure Squat physiology is more than capable of using a fictional shotgun effectively one handed.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
With but a few tweaks...

Have to be honest, I prefer the GW model. Not that that would be a bad conversion, mind.

KillerAngel wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Also, you are aware that she's supposed to be in battle? You sort of want to be able to use a weapon effectively when you're getting shot at.

I said don't overthink it! I'm sure Squat physiology is more than capable of using a fictional shotgun effectively one handed.

Wasn't the example statline for the line trooper S4, T4? I imagine those physical aspects would help with wielding such a weapon one-handed.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
With but a few tweaks...

Ah, much better. Lose the coat and put the blanket-roll somewhere where it isn't blocking the bloody headlight! and I might even pay for one.