Because who doesn't love a mech that generates speed lines while standing still!
... what the hell did I just watch?
It's the really poorly designed Mk1 Monster from a rather mediocre anime called Macross Zero. It's supposed to be the precursor to the Mk2 Monster, but honestly, you should just ignore it. The Mk1 has stupid robo-claws for hands, the Mk2 has arms that contain missile tubes that fire reaction/reflex 250kiloton anti-warship nuclear missiles.
Lysenis wrote: I am in for Showdown but I have $240 more to use ... Thoughts?
What are your priorities? Sheer number of models or variety? Skirmish or wargame sized battles? Zentraedi or Human? Your thoughts on experimental mecha... abomination or cool expansion?
warboss wrote: I'm curious to see if Robotech can beat the one day pledge total for zombicide 2 of $449k. That's definitely the highest I've seen for a tabletop game offering. If anyone has any higher ones for a minis/board/tabletop game, feel free to post it. We're already within a few minutes of passing the second highest that I know of (Myth).
Reaper bones posted 600k on the day before the final day and 760k on it's final day.
Finally decided that just battle cry would be enough but i'll probably throw in for the armoured valks come pledge manager time.
Seems like true alchemists Palladium have discovered the Philosopher's Stone which transmutes pure nostalgia into cold hard cash.
What was that Macross 2012 Pachinko thing? Did they really commission a thorough re-animation of the iconic scenes of Macross for an arcade machine played by grannies? Some of that Marcross Frontier style is showing...
Asmodai Asmodean wrote: Seems like true alchemists Palladium have discovered the Philosopher's Stone which transmutes pure nostalgia into cold hard cash
There is definitely nostalgia, but there are a lot of good uses for the minis too. Good quality Minis for under $2 a piece is a great deal. I feel much the same with this kickstarter as I have with others that I have backed, if the game doesn't pan out I still have great minis that I can use for other projects. If other companies charges this much, they might see their sales go up.
Asmodai Asmodean wrote: Seems like true alchemists Palladium have discovered the Philosopher's Stone which transmutes pure nostalgia into cold hard cash
There is definitely nostalgia, but there are a lot of good uses for the minis too. Good quality Minis for under $2 a piece is a great deal. I feel much the same with this kickstarter as I have with others that I have backed, if the game doesn't pan out I still have great minis that I can use for other projects. If other companies charges this much, they might see their sales go up.
Yep. If nothing else, I'm getting a bunch of Warhammers, Riflement, Archers, Longbows, and various Stinger/Wasp/Phoenix Hawk/LAMs for Battletech, PLUS some other neat display pieces/useful game pieces for other games.
Works for me. I'm hoping the game itself pans out and is good, but if it's a turd, there are contingencies.
Asmodai Asmodean wrote: Seems like true alchemists Palladium have discovered the Philosopher's Stone which transmutes pure nostalgia into cold hard cash
There is definitely nostalgia, but there are a lot of good uses for the minis too. Good quality Minis for under $2 a piece is a great deal. I feel much the same with this kickstarter as I have with others that I have backed, if the game doesn't pan out I still have great minis that I can use for other projects. If other companies charges this much, they might see their sales go up.
Yep. If nothing else, I'm getting a bunch of Warhammers, Riflement, Archers, Longbows, and various Stinger/Wasp/Phoenix Hawk/LAMs for Battletech, PLUS some other neat display pieces/useful game pieces for other games.
Works for me. I'm hoping the game itself pans out and is good, but if it's a turd, there are contingencies.
Talking about transmuting nostalgia... you do realise you're still transmuting it, except it's Battletech nostalgia instead of Macross? Which, of course licensed the mecha designs from Macross...
I highly doubt that a similar kickstarter featuring well-designed, multi-purpose mecha at $2 a pop would have hit the $1.5 million mark if they weren't cashing in on your childhood memories.
Asmodai Asmodean wrote: Seems like true alchemists Palladium have discovered the Philosopher's Stone which transmutes pure nostalgia into cold hard cash
There is definitely nostalgia, but there are a lot of good uses for the minis too. Good quality Minis for under $2 a piece is a great deal. I feel much the same with this kickstarter as I have with others that I have backed, if the game doesn't pan out I still have great minis that I can use for other projects. If other companies charges this much, they might see their sales go up.
Yep. If nothing else, I'm getting a bunch of Warhammers, Riflement, Archers, Longbows, and various Stinger/Wasp/Phoenix Hawk/LAMs for Battletech, PLUS some other neat display pieces/useful game pieces for other games.
Works for me. I'm hoping the game itself pans out and is good, but if it's a turd, there are contingencies.
Talking about transmuting nostalgia... you do realise you're still transmuting it, except it's Battletech nostalgia instead of Macross? Which, of course licensed the mecha designs from Macross...
I highly doubt that a similar kickstarter featuring well-designed, multi-purpose mecha at $2 a pop would have hit the $1.5 million mark if they weren't cashing in on your childhood memories.
You are probably right, but would depend on what else I can use the minis for. I like unique and interesting mins. I can use most of these in various games if I want to. These would make killer Tau, which is know as the Anime army anyway. Hell, they would be cheaper than buying actual Tau too! I bought Sedition wars for the minis and I think they hit about the same level of pledges ans there was no nostalgia there, just a source of cool looking cheap minis.
Andrew1975 wrote: Hell, they would be cheaper than buying actual Tau too! I bought Sedition wars for the minis and I think they hit about the same level of pledges ans there was no nostalgia there, just a source of cool looking cheap minis.
Who told you my plan!
Battloids for Crisis Suits.
A double set of Phalanx for my MissleSide, same but the other Destroid for my RailSide.
Maybe find a way to make the Monster into a Riptide?
Maybe the smaller Power Armour or Inf for stealth suits?
Lysenis wrote: I am in for Showdown but I have $240 more to use ... Thoughts?
What are your priorities? Sheer number of models or variety? Skirmish or wargame sized battles? Zentraedi or Human? Your thoughts on experimental mecha... abomination or cool expansion?
I am likely going to get 2-3 squadrons of Super Valks. With Showdown I have a hefty amount of models already which is great. My goal is to be able play with others and get this game rolling in my FLGS.
I AM getting VF-4's at least a squadron. My history with robocross is what made me join the Navy so I am likely going with UEDF forces but Also want others to be able to build what they want as well. I do want wargame capability and I think Showdown gives me that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: This is what I am looking at getting..
Hopefully I'm not covering old ground, but how exactly do things work from now on? Will there be a form e-mailed to me that I fill in for extra dollies I want?
Evil_Toast wrote: Hopefully I'm not covering old ground, but how exactly do things work from now on? Will there be a form e-mailed to me that I fill in for extra dollies I want?
Firstly they'll E-mail a survey. This gives them an idea as to what people want, but is not binding. Later, they'll send out the Pledge Manager. This is your last chance to add things to what you wanted. Any extra that you owe them can be taken from your credit card, or you could use paypal. Make sure you are completely happy with what you have put on the pledge manager - any over-payment is a gift to them and you will not be able to take it back, so make sure you have put everything you pledged for down. If you have realised that there is something that you didn't pledge for - like I didn't think we'd hit the YF-4's and didn't increase my pledge, was just happy enough we were going to hit the SDF-1 - you can add it to the pledge manager and pay the increase BUT you can't drop your pledge amount.
Lysenis wrote: I am in for Showdown but I have $240 more to use ... Thoughts?
You could get four packs of the YF-4, and two of the ghost.
But why? We dont have the stat cards for the vf4 or the point cost. I will be getting a squadron now yes but I light wait for my FLGS to Carey before I acquire more.
Also realize that I will be painting all this so that is apaet of the equation (also battle damage conversions as well)
Firstly they'll E-mail a survey. This gives them an idea as to what people want, but is not binding. Later, they'll send out the Pledge Manager. This is your last chance to add things to what you wanted. Any extra that you owe them can be taken from your credit card, or you could use paypal.
I do hope you're right about the paypal part. I asked that question to the ninjas and got a no.
Edit: out of curiosity...why did this KS thread get turfed hours after the end but we still have mantic ones months later and myth weeks later still in news and rumors?
Swabby wrote: I would actually go as far to say that most of the backers are probably macross/battletech fans over robotech.
The vocal minority palladium fanboys were in full effect on the KS comments the whole time however.
I would say that's probably not true. Every Macross forum I visited snubbed their noses at it as well as anything that puts money in the pockets of Harmony Gold. And the Battletech forums that I visited were similarly unsupportive.
I personally know a half dozen people who backed it, all because it's Robotech. I don't know anyone who backed it because it was Macross or Battletech.
Edit: out of curiosity...why did this KS thread get turfed hours after the end but we still have mantic ones months later and myth weeks later still in news and rumors?
Change the title to be "Palladium/Nina Divisioin ROBOTECH TACTICS news" and get it moved back.
Evil_Toast wrote: Bloody hell, this thing went nuts after I went to bed. Last thing I saw was 10K to go for free Lancers.
Which is potentially a razor blade in the candy floss of life. Can I still upgrade from Battle Cry to Showdown? Please say yes...
Yes.
They've said that pretty much any tier (presumably not the early birds, that'd be zany) can be used as an Add On, which is (far as I know) how people are getting multiple Recklesses and whatnot without bothering to use multiple accounts.
My crew is in for a Reckless and an extra Battle Cry across the 3 of us who bought in (at least 7-8 will likely be players, but us three are the ones funded/nostalgic enough to throw cash at it).
Justified a Showdown of my own out of those 5 with a little left over for a MAC II, a squad of Armoured Battloids and maybe an SDF-1 resin figure. My meagre painting skills won't do it justice, but it'd be nice to have all the same.
So... I had some free time at lunch and did some quickie math and the add ons do indeed seem weighted a bit towards the zentraedi (at least in terms of $$ value.. didn't check in game points). Using the core box as the base amount, a battlecry pledge gives you $155 in human add-ons and $185 in zentraedi. I'll let someone else figure out the squadron points difference (if any) as the zentraedi are generally cheaper in pts per model than UEDF. The calculation does help me in the sense that I'm glad my addons were UEDF and not zentraedi.
If nothing else, I imagine the point difference will be kind of a sliding scale, since there seems to be some variance on what a figure is worth depending on whether it's part of a Core unit or an upgrade/elite.
Not to mention that some boxes contain a vague number of points (how many Defenders you build vs Tomahawks, assuming they have a differing point cost, I think they do). I suppose one could just do the math up for the most expensive options possible as an estimate, but depending on what constitutes a 'regular' game versus an 'epic' one versus a skirmish might skew that further.
It was mentioned by one of the Ninjas that a 300 point game took about an hour, but that they enjoyed larger scale 600 point games that took a while longer. After a year and a half of a skirmish game, I suspect my crew will be all about getting some massive 2 on 2 battles going on the biggest table we can find.
Also, since I generally just come to Dakka for Kickstarter campaigns/threads, it's kind of messing with my head not to be going into the News/Rumours subforum, though that's where I first heard about the Dwarven Forge campaign, so it's probably safer for my wallet this way.
Forar wrote: If nothing else, I imagine the point difference will be kind of a sliding scale, since there seems to be some variance on what a figure is worth depending on whether it's part of a Core unit or an upgrade/elite.
Not to mention that some boxes contain a vague number of points (how many Defenders you build vs Tomahawks, assuming they have a differing point cost, I think they do). I suppose one could just do the math up for the most expensive options possible as an estimate, but depending on what constitutes a 'regular' game versus an 'epic' one versus a skirmish might skew that further.
It was mentioned by one of the Ninjas that a 300 point game took about an hour, but that they enjoyed larger scale 600 point games that took a while longer. After a year and a half of a skirmish game, I suspect my crew will be all about getting some massive 2 on 2 battles going on the biggest table we can find.
UN Test Pilot did some calculations and came up with around 450-460pts for both sides in battlecry not counting any special characters so multiply accordingly for your pledge level. That's big enough for me personally from a "crap I have to paint" perspective as I've painted less than one mini per month averaged out over the last year or so. Adding 96 minis to the to do pile will keep me busy for a long while. I suspect I'll have to get through my heavy gear painting backlog and one single 40k mini left to paint before this winter if I'm to hit the ground running with robotech.
I found another pic of the YF-4/VF-4 in case anyone else was wondering how it looks in all 3 modes at least from the japanese macross perspective. Insert the usual disclaimer of who knows if Ninja will keep it the same for Robotech. I've spoilered it as its a pretty big picture.
Yeah, with around 145 models coming to me when all is said and done (possibly hooking another friend up with part of my Showdown), I should probably make a direct effort to finish painting up the rest of my Malifaux figures, because I imagine
it's going to take me all next year to get all of those built, magnetized, primed and painted. Though honestly I'll probably focus on the first three. Better to be able to field the pieces rather than wait extra weeks and months just to get a few figures done.
One thing of note... someone on palladium's forums posted a link to the update that added the objective markers with pictures. They're apparently kickstarter/convention limited editions like Roy/Rick and won't be availabe on normal store shelves despite not actually saying that on the add on page like the other limited offerings. Just an FYI as I was under the impression that they weren't personally.
@Forar: I don't know how long the robotech figs will take to paint compared with other lines. They're bigger than most figs so that takes more time but they don't have the ridiculously unneccesary bling of 40k figs (or frilly lace of malifaux!) which saves you some time. I'd probably put them around the same as Heavy Gear fire support figs which can take a while.
Asmodai Asmodean wrote: Seems like true alchemists Palladium have discovered the Philosopher's Stone which transmutes pure nostalgia into cold hard cash....
Considering the quality of rules and cost of 40k these days, Palladium is not alone in finding that Philosopher's Stone.
Because who doesn't love a mech that generates speed lines while standing still!
... what the hell did I just watch?
It's the really poorly designed Mk1 Monster from a rather mediocre anime called Macross Zero. It's supposed to be the precursor to the Mk2 Monster, but honestly, you should just ignore it. The Mk1 has stupid robo-claws for hands, the Mk2 has arms that contain missile tubes that fire reaction/reflex 250kiloton anti-warship nuclear missiles.
If by poorly designed you mean AWESOMELY designed then yes you are right.
How can you not love a mech that has to grab onto something so its recoil doesn't knock itself over!
While the Mk2 has more firepower, I love that clip for the power it conveys.
Edit: out of curiosity...why did this KS thread get turfed hours after the end but we still have mantic ones months later and myth weeks later still in news and rumors?
Moving forward I recommend:
This thread continue for KS news ie pledge manager
Start new threads in Misc games for discussion of rules, terrain etc.
Start a new thread in News and Rumors when there's news of general interest ie retail release or expansions.
And if there are threads for expired KS campaigns, just alert the mods.
warboss wrote: @Forar: I don't know how long the robotech figs will take to paint compared with other lines. They're bigger than most figs so that takes more time but they don't have the ridiculously unneccesary bling of 40k figs (or frilly lace of malifaux!) which saves you some time. I'd probably put them around the same as Heavy Gear fire support figs which can take a while.
I'm sure it won't be terrible, but accounting for removing the pieces from the sprues, trimming, gluing and attaching to bases alone, I figure 145'ish figures will take hours and hours and hours alone. Add in some bulk priming (not too time intensive, but I might want to invest in a quality medical mask that day) and even just getting base colours, I imagine it'll take a while.
I do agree that it probably won't be nearly as fiddly as, say, individual Malifaux figures, where I'm basically 're-inventing the wheel' with every figure, but even bulk production I imagine will take a while.
And then there's basing. So much glue. So much sand. And other random stuff.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: If by poorly designed you mean AWESOMELY designed then yes you are right.
How can you not love a mech that has to grab onto something so its recoil doesn't knock itself over!
While the Mk2 has more firepower, I love that clip for the power it conveys.
The 'has to grab the ground to brace itself' wasn't that big a deal.
It was more the little girl standing next to it and the people floating in the air being shot at. I'm sure it's perfectly reasonable in context. Out of context, it was sort of a "waitwhat..." kind of moment.
I do agree that it probably won't be nearly as fiddly as, say, individual Malifaux figures, where I'm basically 're-inventing the wheel' with every figure, but even bulk production I imagine will take a while.
For the basic pods, yes, but the veritechs, will probably be pretty fiddley depending on how you paint them.
You have to paint Rick and Roy like the show, then there is Max (A and J) and Myria, Ben, and Jack Archer.
I plan on painting most of the fighters all different. One squad will be the transformers squad with Jetfire, Starscream, Skywarp and Thundercracker. Of course I will have Skull squadron and Vermillion squadron. Have to think of other color schemes. I wonder how they would look in brushed aluminum, like Korean war era fighters.
Zentradi and battaloids should go pretty quick though.
I guess you could paint them like this, but you know they are just going to get killed with this paint job, as soon as you saw this paint job you knew they were redshirts.
Paint times vary from person to person obviously, but painting Mecha/Vehicles en masse is hell of a lot easier than painting infantry en masse. Not the eyes, the EYES!!!
Also it's more of a skirmish game so you can get painted games going pretty quickly, and add/paint models to the army as and when you see fit. You don't have to paint all 145 models to field them as a painted army (Foot orks, I'm looking at you.)
Although having to paint three types of a single model to be able field it painted should be an interesting experience... as well getting the decals just so so you can't tell the variations in transformation, although I think constantly switching models will get tedious for all except the most dedicated Robotech enthusiasts. Good thing I have no OCD.
Paint times vary from person to person obviously, but painting Mecha/Vehicles en masse is hell of a lot easier than painting infantry en masse. Not the eyes, the EYES!!!
Yeah, but at least with lets say guard you have one color scheme. Which I guess you Could do with the Veritechs. But if you want squads that look like this
Actually, starting with the skirmish version so my friends and I can start figuring out the game without having to feel like we'll need hundreds of models prepped to play is something I plan on proposing to them.
And as an amateur painter, I'm strangely comfortable with getting to an acceptable level of detail (extra work on Rick/Roy/Max/Miriya in a VT for sure), and I may include some variation in the other dozen or so VT's I'll be working on, which yes, will probably slow me down a bit.
It'll probably work for and against me on a lot of levels, but at least at the size of figures they are, hopefully there won't be too many itty bitty teeny tiny pieces. Wyrd's move to plastic for Malifaux had advantages (improvement in detail in general), but some of their sprues leave something to be desires (apparently something they're aware of and are working on).
Honestly, the RDF forces are the ones I'm most looking forward to playing. I'll build and paint up my share of Zentraedi figures so I can run games on my own, and beef up the numbers on games when we decide to field giant armies on each side, but I imagine I'll be putting more time and effort into the former, and the veritechs alone will indeed be a lot of work per field-able figure.
I am with Forar on this One. RDF has always been my fav!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote: Paint times vary from person to person obviously, but painting Mecha/Vehicles en masse is hell of a lot easier than painting infantry en masse. Not the eyes, the EYES!!!
Also it's more of a skirmish game so you can get painted games going pretty quickly, and add/paint models to the army as and when you see fit. You don't have to paint all 145 models to field them as a painted army (Foot orks, I'm looking at you.)
Although having to paint three types of a single model to be able field it painted should be an interesting experience... as well getting the decals just so so you can't tell the variations in transformation, although I think constantly switching models will get tedious for all except the most dedicated Robotech enthusiasts. Good thing I have no OCD.
I highly doubt people will be transforming THAT often but meh, I wont mind.
Ontopic of painting, I am buying a airbrush just for Thia!
warboss wrote: I was charged within 2 hours and got the email confirming the payment going through before I hit the sack the night the KS ended.
That's what I'm use to experiencing as well. According to my bank there hasn't even been a withdraw attempt for my pledge amount from Amazon or Palladium. My Amazon payment info is current. I'm sending a message to Palladium to ask them.
Check your email spam folder? I once had an issue and Kickstarter/Amazon will email you say there's been an issue and ask you to rectify the matter. In my case, it was due to having my new CC come in during the course of the campaign, so the old number wasn't valid anymore. Got that sorted out and within a few hours the transaction completed successfully (if not less, this was sometime last year so the exact particulars are a bit fuzzy, I was just happy it was resolved so quickly and easily).
Sheep wrote: It's going to be a mission that's for sure, airbrush to the rescue!
I was charged within 2 hours too.
Did you pick up any of the digital cammo masks from combat wombat (or was it armies armies... I forgot which 15mm company did them) when they were out to make your life easier?
That woodland camo one looks a lot like an Australian F-111 to me, which is cool as hell!
The low vis one is cool too, though I think it might be a bit boring for a whole army/squadron. Maybe if you incorporated elements from the F-22, with the darker splodges on the wings it might make it more interesting.
I was thinking of doing something in colours similar to MARPAT, but realised that makes not sense as a camo pattern in space. But then camo doesn't make sense in space anyway.
I may do it in a desert MARPAT, and add some grey to it, to give the sense of being an urban scheme, without being dull
Just some thoughts I was thinking out loud as I typed..
A trans-atmospheric fighter would adopt a camo scheme based upon what type of camo would be correct for where it was fighting on the ground. In the instance of VF units, that camo sceme could be properly based on what it looked like in battloid mode.
Worries about camo schemes being appropriate in space combat have very little validity due to the distances that space combat is likely to take place at. If an enemy is relying on a visual, especially an unaided visual, he is wasting ammo on a garanteed miss. If he requires a zoom function to let him know when to pull the trigger, he's only giving his opponent more time to dodge.
OK, so I'm only painting my pledge to the colours seen in the show, but when they hit retail and I get more, I may be spreading out different camo schemes to different units.
I'm assuming 2 weeks after the campaign ended, so Monday June 3rd I'm guessing. That's when PB/ND get the money from Amazon Payments, I think they're using that to get a feel for what they need, and then they open the pledge manager shortly thereafter and let people finalize their orders and add some extra cash for more add ons/additional tiers.
They've said the pledge manager will be open for about a month, I'm guessing most of June until early July, and they've said that production would begin around a month and a half after the campaign, ie: early July.
Assuming everything is still on schedule, it'd all fit in together nicely.
Yeah, they won't know how much of the original pledged amount went through until 14 days after the KS as pledgers have 14 days to get their card/finances in order if there was an issue with the original attempt at payment. While I'm hoping that we'll hear from them this week with an update on some of the models that didn't get renders, I'm not necessarily counting on it. Also, around two weeks post KS will also be the time they're supposed to be judging the Design an Ace contest entries so hopefully we'll get one heck of an update then.
Went to "Anime North" and got to see the Palladium booth and even got to talk to Kevin for a bit.
No real hard information to go on other than those models are fantastic they have to play and on display.
They are molded parts from the 3D printed models.
If the detail is half of what it is now I would be happy.
Kevin seems quite determined that the dies will turn out the same result.
Good News to me:
This is a personal opinion only based on a short conversation, seems Kevin just has a huge commitment to the best product he thinks he can get. He admits to mistakes so I do not get any of the vibe of him being a flaming narcissist like in some forum posts. More like a manager that has a hard time letting go when big projects are at hand.
Bad News:
Was told that they feel it is a 50/50 split in the model development with Ninja so I hope their project timeline planners are not shared...
I am bracing for an Easter 2014 gift for myself due to the huge success of the kickstarter (expecting bit more than they could chew). It is a challenge. I like it when I am wrong. Valentines gift if they run to typical schedules. Christmas as planned if Kevin has kicked the monkey off his back.
I want this game, nostalgia still does not cover that the veritech fighter is still the coolest looking stomping robot out there.
Bad News:
Was told that they feel it is a 50/50 split in the model development with Ninja so I hope their project timeline planners are not shared...
Not sure how that works. Palladium has zero experience in 3d modelling and their most recent additions to their minis line has a decidely mid-90's quality and look to them. I guess they could just hire people but I'd prefer if they didn't just learn as they went along. Prior to the KS they said 90% of the work was done... hopefully that wasn't just inaccurate PR like the Northern Gun books being in the "final stages of development" a year ago when they were crowdfunded.
Not sure how that works. Palladium has zero experience in 3d modelling and their most recent additions to their minis line has a decidely mid-90's quality and look to them. I guess they could just hire people but I'd prefer if they didn't just learn as they went along. Prior to the KS they said 90% of the work was done... hopefully that wasn't just inaccurate PR like the Northern Gun books being in the "final stages of development" a year ago when they were crowdfunded.
From the mouth of the guy in charge, but we are in VERY early stages where sprues have not been figured out so this is going to be exciting.
I have had more than a bit of experience in supplier development so I hope some of my questions on the timeline and operations in between was of some assistance to the guy: he has a ton to do in the next few months.
If I can get big industrial steel castings from China on time, he can do better. (choice of model density per injection mold will be key for production schedule = small die/long run = big die/short run).
Man hours long term will cost more (China can distort that to some degree) than the bigger expensive die.
Hope they got a smart tool and die guy to figure all that out based on the pre-order selection.
Well. . . taht sounds like fun. . . we shall realy see when the final tallygoes through, Since Battle Cry was such a great hit that is a LOT of free models getting out. . .
Sheep wrote: The ones from critical mass games? At the moment I haven't sourced any masks yet, its not really a priority til the minis are closer to release.
I've never heard of anything from a company called combat wombat, got a link?
I just checked and the masks were from Critical Mass games.
Combat Wombat is a 15mm sci fi company that has some intresting items. They also do a nice brass turned barrel for 15mm tanks (no annoying seam lines to deal with) and some cool walkers.
http://combatwombatminiatures.com/ if your still courious.
Talizvar wrote: I am bracing for an Easter 2014 gift for myself due to the huge success of the kickstarter (expecting bit more than they could chew). It is a challenge. I like it when I am wrong. Valentines gift if they run to typical schedules. Christmas as planned if Kevin has kicked the monkey off his back.
I too am keeping a fairly restrained view on when we'll actually be getting our stuff, and for that reason, Kevin's 'murmur' from the 21st contained some (presumably) unintentional hilarity:
With any luck, we’ll have Kickstarter materials shipping to you by October or November (no promises) and the retail product hitting store shelves by November or December. We do not have a release schedule yet, but I’ll let you know when we do; probably in a few weeks.
Look, guys, I get you're enthusiastic and optimistic about the project, but according to the timeline we were given by ND weeks ago, production was set to start in early July. We had what felt (as someone with heavily incomplete information, of course) as a reasonable target date: December.
I have simply no idea why they'd undercut that by several months literally the day after the campaign ended.
If we DO get our figures in Oct or Nov, that would be awesome. But I feel it's an unnecessary risk to build up peoples hopes and expectations. If they pull it off, great, but now even if the figures start showing up in Dec or Jan (which would've been 'on schedule'), but given their reputation for delays, surely it's unwise to tempt fate like that.
Personally I would've stuck to the Dec target at least until production was underway, and maybe save the 'it might come early' line for Gencon. "Did we say December? We meant November. You're welcome."
Talizvar wrote: I am bracing for an Easter 2014 gift for myself due to the huge success of the kickstarter (expecting bit more than they could chew). It is a challenge. I like it when I am wrong. Valentines gift if they run to typical schedules. Christmas as planned if Kevin has kicked the monkey off his back.
With any luck, we’ll have Kickstarter materials shipping to you by October or November (no promises) and the retail product hitting store shelves by November or December. We do not have a release schedule yet, but I’ll let you know when we do; probably in a few weeks.
**snip**
Personally I would've stuck to the Dec target at least until production was underway, and maybe save the 'it might come early' line for Gencon. "Did we say December? We meant November. You're welcome."
What would be the worst case here? A broken contract where they get to hold our money a few more months without material goods to show for it (we have lost use of our liquid assets during that time) but at least what we want is being made. In the future we understand not to follow their schedule.
If it all works out expectations are exceeded and win-win for everyone.
Talizvar wrote: What would be the worst case here? A broken contract where they get to hold our money a few more months without material goods to show for it (we have lost use of our liquid assets during that time) but at least what we want is being made. In the future we understand not to follow their schedule.
If it all works out expectations are exceeded and win-win for everyone.
I don't know if you're aware of this, but Palladium has a reputation for long delays, and promising products that are 'on the verge of release', but don't materialize for years and years. Hell, they have two other crowd funded books (Northern Gun 1 and 2) that are still outstanding, long after their expected release dates. It's... a bit of a sore spot even for some Palladium die hards.
Setting a date (as they did, December) and meeting it or releasing early might help improve that reputation, even if Ninja Division is doing most of the heavy lifting on that. Speculating, literally a day after the campaign ended, that they might deliver two to three months early raises expectations that they will deliver on that.
Look at it this way; if they left it at Dec, and deliver in Dec or even Jan, few would have cause for complaint. Hell, I would've been pleasantly surprised at that point. Now, they've set expectations to a degree where they have to exceed their initial projections just to break even, have almost no chance to exceed those expectations, and will even be perceived by some to have fallen short just for delivering 'on time'.
And while I agree that whether we get our boxes in Oct or Dec or next April is small scale in the grand scheme of things, keep in mind that Palladium seems to be hoping this is a hit. There are two more series to produce figures for, and notes that they'd love to a Rifts Tactics minis game as well. Obviously this isn't just a side project, they're hoping to diversify into a whole new game genre. It isn't just whether or not the backers are happy or not (though happy backers are probably a good thing if they're hoping we buy into more figures with this era and the later ones), but keeping the community interested, positive and enthusiastic. "oops, did we say November? We meant February" could prove detrimental to that goal.
I don't know if you're aware of this, but Palladium has a reputation for long delays, and promising products that are 'on the verge of release', but don't materialize for years and years. Hell, they have two other crowd funded books (Northern Gun 1 and 2) that are still outstanding, long after their expected release dates. It's... a bit of a sore spot even for some Palladium die hards.
Yep, aware of that crowd funded but at their own site not through Kickstarter. I think they know if they fail on this they are going to be sued and they would be pretty much done as a company.
Setting a date (as they did, December) and meeting it or releasing early might help improve that reputation, even if Ninja Division is doing most of the heavy lifting on that. Speculating, literally a day after the campaign ended, that they might deliver two to three months early raises expectations that they will deliver on that.
That is what I am hoping for: Ninja division doing the work and hopefully on the design end they do not get too much interference,... er, "feedback"
Look at it this way; if they left it at Dec, and deliver in Dec or even Jan, few would have cause for complaint. Hell, I would've been pleasantly surprised at that point. Now, they've set expectations to a degree where they have to exceed their initial projections just to break even, have almost no chance to exceed those expectations, and will even be perceived by some to have fallen short just for delivering 'on time'.
I really think these guys think way to hopefully without looking at the order of operations and possible timelines for each step and figuring it out. I honestly think it will be an Easter gift as I stated in another post...
And while I agree that whether we get our boxes in Oct or Dec or next April is small scale in the grand scheme of things, keep in mind that Palladium seems to be hoping this is a hit. There are two more series to produce figures for, and notes that they'd love to a Rifts Tactics minis game as well. Obviously this isn't just a side project, they're hoping to diversify into a whole new game genre. It isn't just whether or not the backers are happy or not (though happy backers are probably a good thing if they're hoping we buy into more figures with this era and the later ones), but keeping the community interested, positive and enthusiastic. "oops, did we say November? We meant February" could prove detrimental to that goal.
Detrimental would be mild, never trusted again and a "has-been" company springs more to mind. These guys have a great IP that they have developed but if Kevin does not get a bit more emphasis of meeting release dates AND meeting his standard of quality they very well could be doomed.
rigeld2 wrote: Sued? Why?
What basis would there be? Kickstarter isn't for preordering, it's for investing.
Ack, no!
There are over 5000 people that spent an average of $260 who would not agree with your viewpoint.
Pre-ordering has always been a way for a company to get more money for development which is not far removed from this.
It is not "investing" where you buy shares and see their cost go up/down or get dividends and you own a piece of the company.
You give them money with the agreement that if the kickstarter is fully funded, they agree to make the product they were trying to get funded.
You select in their "incentives" some product (coupon, models, their first commercial product, etc.) and they agree to supply what was selected.
You CAN give away money (as little as a dollar) in the hopes they get to develop the product they propose.
Go read the kickstarter agreement, it is very clear these are not donations unless specifically stated (like the one dollar).
This is why a proposed delivery date is required so that people do not wait two years unless that was understood.
An Excel sheet is then sent to us to select what we want based on the money each "backer" put in.
There is mention of "buyer beware" and Palladium has some history of not delivering on what people paid them so discussing options if they fail is not all that off-base.
warboss wrote: Don't forget that the Design an Ace contest ends this weekend so get your designs in for a free valkyrie prize!
Whats this, how do I enter?
Basically, you come up with a squadron paint scheme and symbol and Palladium/Ninja picks their favorites to include in the upcoming rulebook. Winners get a painted valkyrie model in their paint scheme as a prize as well. Nifty contest indeed!
Which happened 2 years ago, and may have been part of the reason significant changes were made to Kickstarter's policies, including the requirement for a Risks & Challenges section, the inclusion of an estimated delivery date, updated language regarding who is responsible for what, etc.
Which isn't to say it can't happen again, but there's a difference between a 10k project that raises 36k and is run by someone who has no idea what they're doing, and a 1.4m project being run by people who have run successful campaigns before.
Overly optimistic comments from Kevin S aside, I'm bracing for delays personally. If we see it in January, awesome. December (on time)? Amazing. Anything earlier just racks up gold stars and praise, but until a couple of months have gone by and they've actually got some updates on production, I'm not holding my breath.
So, Alph, out of curiosity... what was the main reason you pulled your pledge? Was it because of Palladium's history of screw ups? I've obviously been a supporter of the kickstarter because of my interest in Robotech but their history (along with a lack of local players) limited my pledge personally.
Alpharius wrote: However, when you give Palladium and co. $1.4M well, you might expect...problems...?
I'm not quite sure what you're alluding to here?
They have a well earned reputation for delays, but hopefully ND's running the show on getting that to happen.
They raked in over 20 times their initial asking cash, so the sheer size/scope/scale of the project expanded dramatically, but hopefully some of that extra funding helps them to get sufficient support and make it happen.
Don't get me wrong, as I've stated all along, I'm no PB fanboy, just a fan with reservations, but I don't think it's fair to assume the absolute worst (omg they might not deliver and we all get screwed and they go bankrupt style) when a couple months of delays seem far more likely.
Shadowrun Returns garnered nearly 2m and had a projected delivery date of late last year, but it's (allegedly) coming out in June and I'm pretty happy.
As was discussed above, if anything, I take issue with them undercutting their own release date by 2-3 months literally a day after the campaign ended.
But then, we've known that Kevin needs to be muzzled and chained to his writing desk for decades now.
The trouble is if palladium takes the success of the kickstarter to mean not that the underlying IP has plenty of life but rather that they've been doing things right all along. I'm not assuming the worst but rather hoping that this is the opportunity that Palladium needs to turn over a new leaf. They've basically ignored robotech for the past couple of years (one book... that's it..) and ignored revising their rules for decades. I'm hoping (probably in vain to be honest) that the megasuccess of this kickstarter shows them that they're frankly wrong in most of their assumptions garnered from listening only to the ever shrinking super hard core fan pool on their forums.
In the end, if they return to their old ways after releasing macross as shown in the kickstarter, I won't shed any tears. Macross is definitely my favorite era and it'll finally have the minis it deserves... assuming they don't pull a "palladium" on us. If they do finally learn their lesson and see that there is a world of ex-fans out there that they could be earning income from and successfully come out with a quality Macross set relatively on time, I'm in for the freebie pledge of the next era Robotech kickstarter as well in addition to any possible Rifts minis kickstarter.
Alpharius wrote: However, when you give Palladium and co. $1.4M well, you might expect...problems...?
I'm not quite sure what you're alluding to here?
They have a well earned reputation for delays, but hopefully ND's running the show on getting that to happen.
They raked in over 20 times their initial asking cash, so the sheer size/scope/scale of the project expanded dramatically, but hopefully some of that extra funding helps them to get sufficient support and make it happen.
It looks like you figured out exactly what I was alluding to there!
Given past experience with Kickstarters that end up grossly over-funded, I expect delays in receiving anything from this one. The vast number of extra model types I expect they are having to deal with much more work per person than they had initially anticipated, so I would rather this take mmore time than be done quickly and lose quality. The increased number of moulds mean it will take longer to make them, so either things will get released in 'waves', or it will all be delayed until everything is ready to go.
Personally, I'd rather the delay and I think the announcement of a reduced production time just after the end of the kickstarter is either complete bovine excrement, or an indication that they are concentrating on the base box set and will release that first, with special characters and paid add-ons coming much later - which stinks for me as I couldn't go in for a box set in the KS and just managed to scrape the KS exclusive characters.
Well, hopefully we'll see a survey and an update in the next week or two, and then we'll have a month with the pledge manager. The timeline on those two will at least give us an idea of when their starting point is. No way of knowing how long said factory will take to produce and ship all those figures, but it's a start.
Our focus is split between finishing up Robotech® RPG Tactics™ and sending it in for manufacturing, and finishing Rifts® Northern Gun One™ and getting it to the printer. Both are coming along well.
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Kickstarter
Kickstarter supporters, it will take a little while for us to get the survey sent out to you. Shortly after we get the survey back from you, Palladium Books will set up the Online Pledge Manager, and you will get an invitation for it. This will be set up like a store, exclusive to Kickstarter Backers, in which you will indicate which add-on items you wanted, and you can even add to your pledge should you desire to do so.
Did your pledge not go through, but you want to participate? Fear not, we will work something out for you. Palladium has been contacted by a number of Kickstarter supporters whose pledges were not processed for one reason or another. If that includes you, please contact Palladium Books, give us your contact information, the amount you pledged for which level, and the add-ons you want, and we WILL make sure you ARE included in the Pledge Manager and receive everything you want.
Did you miss out completely and wish you could have participated? Keep your eyes on the Palladium Website and these Weekly Updates. We are looking into ways to allow you to participate for a limited time. No promises, but give us some time to see if we can get you included.
All of this should be in place by the end of June or sooner. Palladium’s whiz kid, Rex Barkdoll, is already on it and working on getting everything set up to process and prepare Kickstarter pledges.
Release date for the physical Kickstarter pledge items: Fall, probably November sometime, before product is shipped to distributors. Sooner if possible. The Palladium and Ninja Division crews are working away.
Today is IIRC the cutoff for the funding via Kickstarter as pledgers have two weeks after the end to get their finances in order (besides the apparent back door into the kickstarter mentioned in my post above). I'm curious to see if they'll accept paypal during the pledge manager stage as I've had some money burning a hole in my paypal wallet for a while (and would have preferred to spend that rather than amazon payments).
Hopefully we'll have an official Kickstarter update tomorrow as well as word this week on the Design an Ace contest.
I just find it interesting that I have all my Kickstarter stuff in order for this. I have the confirmation emails, I have my Amazon account set-up properly and I have even tried to communicate with them asking why they didn't charge my account or why my pledge was skipped and I have not heard a response from them. Instead I get a note here on Dakka that they have a " Message on There Webpage" but we have to hunt it down instead of them come to each of us. It even says that they have been contacted by others like me and instead of getting back to us personally (if you pledge more than $140.00 you deserve a personal response) they hide a message on their website.
I'm wondering if I want to withhold all my pledge information at this point since they can't even seem to take money from people without problems how on earth are they going to be able to deliver a quality game product???
dalsiandon wrote: I'm wondering if I want to withhold all my pledge information at this point since they can't even seem to take money from people without problems how on earth are they going to be able to deliver a quality game product???
While I agree with your sentiment about maintaining contact, only you can decide whether withholding payment is the right choice. There is always an element of risk when dealing with Palladium and apparently Soda Pop (the last 3 crowdfunding efforts from the two of them combined are each 6+ months late). Palladium communicates quite well with the incredibly insular community of super die hard fans on their website that buy 3 copies of each book... but they're not so great with incorporating feedback or communicating with the wider more independent minded gaming community.
dalsiandon wrote: I just find it interesting that I have all my Kickstarter stuff in order for this. I have the confirmation emails, I have my Amazon account set-up properly and I have even tried to communicate with them asking why they didn't charge my account or why my pledge was skipped and I have not heard a response from them. Instead I get a note here on Dakka that they have a " Message on There Webpage" but we have to hunt it down instead of them come to each of us. It even says that they have been contacted by others like me and instead of getting back to us personally (if you pledge more than $140.00 you deserve a personal response) they hide a message on their website.
I'm wondering if I want to withhold all my pledge information at this point since they can't even seem to take money from people without problems how on earth are they going to be able to deliver a quality game product???
Kickstarter creators have no control over when or how often Amazon attempts to charge, yelling at them will do you no good. Contact Kickstarter/Amazon itself.
warboss wrote: Palladium communicates quite well with the incredibly insular community of super die hard fans on their website that buy 3 copies of each book...
I've been running into this more and more of late, and it continues to baffle me.
As I've mentioned a few times, I used to have almost everything they'd produced to date. It took up most of a good sized book shelf all on its own, and could've buckled a lesser shelving unit.
I simply cannot fathom how buying in duplicate or triplicate is a wise manner of spending ones disposable income. Sure, they're free to do it, but I'm not quite sure it should be lauded. A special edition/signed copy or two aside, how many copies of a book does one person need? Let alone an entire office dedicated to a massive set in triplicate. Like, I highly doubt even the signed ones are ever going to be hot commodities trading at an order of magnitude more than the regular books.
Forar wrote: Almost has an unsettlingly cultish feel to it.
... that's the point.
And the reason my brother and I used to each buy a book is because they fell apart relatively easily (covers delaminated, glue failed, etc) compared to other gaming books.
warboss wrote: Palladium communicates quite well with the incredibly insular community of super die hard fans on their website that buy 3 copies of each book...
I've been running into this more and more of late, and it continues to baffle me.
*snip*
Almost has an unsettlingly cultish feel to it.
It certainly does have a Jonestown feel to it over on the Palladium boards but it's not specific to them but rather games that are frankly past their prime/heyday and have shadows of the community/popularity they previously had. You've got a poster that has moaned and whined constantly for months about the ignored crowdfunding offers stating that they'll now buy multiple copies because the owner had a nice sit down chat with him and he's getting his name in the book on a picture. Then there are the folks that apparently take weeks to realize that palladium NOT extending their 20% off sale on Robotech books during the Kickstarter to them just because they're picking them up in person during a multiple hundred mile pilgrimage to the Palladium offices is an unfriendly move. They drive hundreds of miles and the company won't give them the 20% off in person that they're offering online at that moment because they don't get to gouge them on shipping as well? But.. hey.. those are the people who prior to the kickstarter kept palladium in business by ordering seconds of all the kool-aid despite being poisoned by it before. Like I said, I went in on this despite my dislike for Palladium and their practices. My love of robotech and the seemingly ground level involvement of a second company are what made me click the pledge button. The kickstarter however was run quite well (although I suspect the Ninja's involvement had alot to do with that) so I'm hoping that they'll turn over a new leaf.
dalsiandon wrote: I just find it interesting that I have all my Kickstarter stuff in order for this. I have the confirmation emails, I have my Amazon account set-up properly and I have even tried to communicate with them asking why they didn't charge my account or why my pledge was skipped and I have not heard a response from them. Instead I get a note here on Dakka that they have a " Message on There Webpage" but we have to hunt it down instead of them come to each of us. It even says that they have been contacted by others like me and instead of getting back to us personally (if you pledge more than $140.00 you deserve a personal response) they hide a message on their website.
I'm wondering if I want to withhold all my pledge information at this point since they can't even seem to take money from people without problems how on earth are they going to be able to deliver a quality game product???
Kickstarter creators have no control over when or how often Amazon attempts to charge, yelling at them will do you no good. Contact Kickstarter/Amazon itself.
Then they should...ahh...wait for it.....ahh.....COMMUNICATE THAT!!!
Just a thought. Because to me it looks like a lapse in PR. Here is a 5 second description of an answer that would be satisfying and helpful....if they ever choose to get around and actually communicate it at large as opposed to hiding it on their website.
"Hey we did this really awesome kickstarter and we appreciate your support. Unfortunately there are occasionally issues with AMAZON and Kickstarter that are beyond our control. Here's what you need to do to help us fix this for you......blah, blah, blah..... Again thanks for your support. Once you get this step done for us we'll be able to get this handled right away."
See how easy that is. I also haven't "Yelled" at them. Because I agree yelling only frightens children and it makes adults just act more stupid then before.
Official update came out that largely repeated the post on the Palladium site (although this adds a phone number to contact them if payment didn't go through). No news unfortunately on the Design an Ace contest.
Hey, everybody. Sorry for the long silence, but rest assured, we have been working feverishly behind the scenes.
First off, we’re working on setting up the pledge manager storefront for Kickstarter backers, and expect to have it up and running by the end of June. Some of you will be familiar with this sort of pledge manager system, which will allow Kickstarter backers to select their add-ons by essentially shopping in their own private store, using their pledged dollar amount as credit to select the items they want. You’ll even be able to add to your pledge amount so that you can pick up any add-ons that were unlocked toward the end of the Kickstarter, or which you may have missed before.
We’ll be sending out surveys in the next few weeks. By then or shortly thereafter, we’ll have many more details about the pledge manager and other questions you may have.
Finally, if you pledged for the Kickstarter but later learned it didn't go through for some reason, please contact us at 734-721-2903. (For those of you who are overseas or otherwise unable to call us, send us a message through Kickstarter, just be aware it will take us longer to get back to you.) We’re not going to shut you out or let you get left behind. We greatly appreciate the tremendous support you've all given us, and we won’t be happy until every one of you is satisfied.
Thanks again, everyone. Watch for the survey coming in the next few weeks.
Starting the Pledge Manager at the end of June and presumably running until the end of July (ish) is a bit further back than my initial estimate, but still gives them 2-4 months for production and delivery to make their 'early' delivery prediction, and 5 months to be 'on time'.
Or one year for anyone who strongly suspects there'll be delays. Which I imagine is most people.
chances are they have a pretty good ballpark of what they need to make, and don't need to rush people into finalizing there pledges just yet.
But this is just the opinion of a Kickstarter creator who wanted 3 months before opening her pledge manager.
Thank you for providing some context. We tend to forget that the process is just begining as opposed to being just days away from our plastic crack arriving.
It is probably a good thing that people are so amped up for product and eagerly awaiting releases… it at least means that there will be a small, but dedicated, group proselytizing this game before release.
Of course if this ends up like Relic Knights (IF and only IF), then the same group is going to be VERY vocal in their expressing their displeasure.
To be fair, they could deliver it 2 months ahead of schedule in boxes wrought from the finest materials and someone would still find something to complain about.
It's not to much "if" there's complaining, it's a matter of 'when and about what'.
Forar wrote: To be fair, they could deliver it 2 months ahead of schedule in boxes wrought from the finest materials and someone would still find something to complain about.
It's not to much "if" there's complaining, it's a matter of 'when and about what'.
Are you complaining about Future Potential Complaints?
Just stating what I feel is likely to occur. Across 5300 backers it seems likely there'll be some grumbling no matter how well it goes. Hence why many people in this thread (who seem to be generally paying attention) are at most idly hoping they get it out on time but are prepping for a release date around "before the heat death of the universe".
As someone once said on a Magic forum I participated on; "Wizards could put $100 bills in booster packs and someone would complain about how they were folded."
This is the interwebs! Where someone ALWAYS finds a reason for complaints.
I for one willl be happy to wait this out. Since they already have molds for the basic pieces (normal Valks, regualt pods destroids) I think they just need to work on the other items (supers, armored, FPA, MPA, etc)
Lysenis wrote: This is the interwebs! Where someone ALWAYS finds a reason for complaints.
I for one willl be happy to wait this out. Since they already have molds for the basic pieces (normal Valks, regualt pods destroids) I think they just need to work on the other items (supers, armored, FPA, MPA, etc)
Just my opinion.
Where did you get the info that they have the molds for the basic pieces? Their kickstarter specifically said they were sending the files around 40 days after the end to make the molds.
Yeah, the pieces they had done up were, as far as I know, prototypes. Meant just for production of enough figures to show off/as proof of concept, to paint up and get the fanboys/fangirls drooling.
If nothing else, I'm under the impression that pewter and plastic molds are very different creatures. Perhaps moreso between "hey, we need like 100 of these" and "hey, we need like 100,000 of these".
When you make a mold like that you need the original sculpt. This means that it is easier to make those again and all they have to do is make the mold in the right materials.
Lysenis wrote: When you make a mold like that you need the original sculpt. This means that it is easier to make those again and all they have to do is make the mold in the right materials.
Metal molds for plastic game pieces =/= rubber molds for metal game pieces. The two are not interchangeable at all. The metal ones are generally milled from 3d files whereas rubber ones are created as negative moulds of 3d printed versions from the same files. Having the later gives you no benefit on the former other than making sure the model actually looks the way you want it to in real life compared to the digital file on a screen. The manufacturing concerns and details of both differ greatly which is why you see flash and mould sprues attached to the model in different spots.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Some more Robotech fun: We’re playing with the idea of offering two convention exclusive Robotech® game pieces for sale at Gen Con: Max Sterling’s VF-1J and Miriya in Female Power Armor. If Ninja Division can pull it off at all (and we’ll try hard), supplies will be limited. These will be different from the items offered in the Kickstarter. And, of course, we’ll be running demos of the game at Gen Con.
From the palladium press release... sigh... they'll just end up yet again biting the hand that feeds them. People wanted max during the KS and now the backers will be excluded from getting the model (unless they go to gencon of course). Leave it to palladium to potentially alienate the people who just paid them $1.4 million... I don't have an issue with con exclusives AFTER the game is released nor do I have an issue with them having new sculpts at the con as long as they're ALSO available to backers during the pledge manager but this is just a bad idea in the form described above. Along with the delay in the pledge manager, the complete ignoring of the design an ace contest whose results were supposed to be announced a week ago, and models KS backers potentially are excluded from getting less than a month after the end of the megasuccessful kickstarter.. and I'm really thinking that making all that money didn't change a thing over in the PB offices.
Some more Robotech fun: We’re playing with the idea of offering two convention exclusive Robotech® game pieces for sale at Gen Con: Max Sterling’s VF-1J and Miriya in Female Power Armor. If Ninja Division can pull it off at all (and we’ll try hard), supplies will be limited. These will be different from the items offered in the Kickstarter. And, of course, we’ll be running demos of the game at Gen Con.
From the palladium press release... sigh... they'll just end up yet again biting the hand that feeds them. People wanted max during the KS and now the backers will be excluded from getting the model (unless they go to gencon of course). Leave it to palladium to potentially alienate the people who just paid them $1.4 million... I don't have an issue with con exclusives AFTER the game is released nor do I have an issue with them having new sculpts at the con as long as they're ALSO available to backers during the pledge manager but this is just a bad idea in the form described above. Along with the delay in the pledge manager, the complete ignoring of the design an ace contest whose results were supposed to be announced a week ago, and models KS backers potentially are excluded from getting less than a month after the end of the megasuccessful kickstarter.. and I'm really thinking that making all that money didn't change a thing over in the PB offices.
This to me is discrimination. I would certainly have paid extra for either or both of those models, but now I can't because I'm a backer from the UK! There must have been loads of people who backed their campaign and now stand no chance of getting Max or Miriya because they can't travel that distance just to get a couple of models. As Warboss said, I'd have no problem whatsoever with "KS Exclusives" being sold in limited nunmbers at conventions, but something people were clamouring for during the KS getting told "You wanted it, but now we're selling it at conventions only!" kinda sucks.
OK, there is a possibility that they'll add this in to the PM, and limited supplies does not necessarily mean "We're doing no more than 100" and could mean "We're doing enough for everyone on the KS and a couple of hundred extra for conventions",but hey, this is Palladium we're talking about, right!
I like how to some people everything Palladium Books does is a mistake. So what they are having a Max and Myria “convention exclusive”? They specifically said they were going to be having them (con exclusives in general) during the KS, and the first ones just happen to be at Gen Con. PB NEEDS some product at GenCon to show off to get people beyond the KS interested.
Also remember that PB said it was TRYING to get Max and Myria exclusives ready for GenCon. There is a lot that can go wrong between now and then, so perhaps the wailing and gnashing of teeth can wait until the con exclusives are a reality as opposed to just vapor ware.
Andrewdrexler wrote: I like how to some people everything Palladium Books does is a mistake. So what they are having a Max and Myria “convention exclusive”? They specifically said they were going to be having them (con exclusives in general) during the KS, and the first ones just happen to be at Gen Con. PB NEEDS some product at GenCon to show off to get people beyond the KS interested.
Also remember that PB said it was TRYING to get Max and Myria exclusives ready for GenCon. There is a lot that can go wrong between now and then, so perhaps the wailing and gnashing of teeth can wait until the con exclusives are a reality as opposed to just vapor ware.
Previous mentions of exclusives sold at cons referenced KS "exclusives" also to be sold at cons. If you're going to defend them, you might as well get the facts straight. People didn't have an issue with the former but this is different.
As I've expressed on the PB forums, I would gladly put down $15 (as per Rick and Roy) for a Max LE figure when the Pledge Manager comes out.
But the initial announcement does kind of grate on me a little. Being able to snag one without going to ebay and paying god knows what would alleviate that considerably, but it does seem like it risks garnering more ire than good will.
Hell, if they'd even just given out "LE VF-1J and FPA" and didn't mention characters at all, I doubt many people would've batted an eye.
But man, on the KS comments section and those forums, there are some people who are astoundingly opposed to the option even becoming available. You'd think offering PB another $15 was somehow tied to kicking their dogs or something...
Andrewdrexler wrote: I like how to some people everything Palladium Books does is a mistake. So what they are having a Max and Myria “convention exclusive”? They specifically said they were going to be having them (con exclusives in general) during the KS, and the first ones just happen to be at Gen Con. PB NEEDS some product at GenCon to show off to get people beyond the KS interested.
Also remember that PB said it was TRYING to get Max and Myria exclusives ready for GenCon. There is a lot that can go wrong between now and then, so perhaps the wailing and gnashing of teeth can wait until the con exclusives are a reality as opposed to just vapor ware.
Previous mentions of exclusives sold at cons referenced KS "exclusives" also to be sold at cons. If you're going to defend them, you might as well get the facts straight. People didn't have an issue with the former but this is different.
I was sure I saw somewhere about Con exclusive figs, or maybe i just assumed that it would happen since nearly every gaming company does it these days. If I misread that I appoligize for misrepresenting what was said. Thta being said, the whole uproar about GenCon exclusive figures sounds like nothing more than the whinning of over-indulged children complaining that someone else gets to play with a shiny toy first.
Rick, Roy, Khyron, Miriya, the SDF-1 figure and the two objective packs were all marked as "KS and Con Exclusive". Nobody would be surprised to see some of any of them at cons.
Andrewdrexler wrote: Thta being said, the whole uproar about GenCon exclusive figures sounds like nothing more than the whinning of over-indulged children complaining that someone else gets to play with a shiny toy first.
Wow. Boy, that sure is a reasonable stance to take on the matter.
I was sure I saw somewhere about Con exclusive figs, or maybe i just assumed that it would happen since nearly every gaming company does it these days.
I can't think of a single KS company that has taken a fig that was clamored for during a kickstarter and then decided to make it available on an incredibly limited basis that would exclude 99% of the kickstarter backers from getting it. If you can, feel free to post the example along with links.
Andrewdrexler wrote: If I misread that I appoligize for misrepresenting what was said. Thta being said, the whole uproar about GenCon exclusive figures sounds like nothing more than the whinning of over-indulged children complaining that someone else gets to play with a shiny toy first.
Lol, apology followed by a blatant insult in an attempt to excuse anything palladium may do as worthy. You must be from the Palladium boards. It's not a question about playing with "a shiny toy first" but rather being able to play with the "shiny toy" ever for the MSRP. I'm not going to gencon nor am I going to be paying 2-10x the face value of what I wanted during the kickstarter after the fact.
@Forar: If they go through with this and don't offer the items during the pledge manager (hey, what's good for the goose is good for the gander... KS "exclusives" are being sold at cons so why not the reverse?), I don't think I'll be getting the extra add-ons I've planned for the last couple of weeks after selling some eldar. I'm curious to see how this resolves. If palladium continues taking the short term gain only route that has been their MO for yearsand only takes feedback that praises them unilaterally (like they've done for the better part of a decade) then the largess of the KS hasn't changed the mentality there. If they decide to listen to the majority opinion of the people who largely gave them a second chance (over the bleating support of the fans who have admittedly kept them alive in a zombie like fashion by buying more to partly make up for the shrinking fanbase of PB), then something may have changed over in Michigan. I've given palladium another chance due to their well run kickstarter and my love of robotech. If they mess with the success of the former with con exclusive that exclude KS backers weeks after, they're pretty much throwing away some of the goodwill garnered by the KS.
@warboss I hear you there, and agree. How they handle 'minor PR issues' before the manager is even live seems pretty important to me. This could be the difference to some people between adding in some extra cash and just taking what they signed up for originally.
Whether or not that's a particularly sizable amount is impossible to know, but considering how many years PB has been struggling to stay ahead of the game financially, you'd think they wouldn't want to start rocking the money boat so soon after they and ND curried so much gamer/fan favour.
It's pretty clear they'd like this to take off to some degree. Why shoot yourself in the foot over a LE veritech?
Again, if this had just been "a LE VT!" I wouldn't have given two fraks... gructs... shnerls... whatever the hell is appropriate for Dakka... but they say Max and my attention is focused on them like a laser, and they bloody well know why. :-P
I was sure I saw somewhere about Con exclusive figs, or maybe i just assumed that it would happen since nearly every gaming company does it these days.
I can't think of a single KS company that has taken a fig that was clamored for during a kickstarter and then decided to make it available on an incredibly limited basis that would exclude 99% of the kickstarter backers from getting it. If you can, feel free to post the example along with links.
Lol, apology followed by a blatant insult in an attempt to excuse anything palladium may do as worthy. You must be from the Palladium boards. It's not a question about playing with "a shiny toy first" but rather being able to play with the "shiny toy" ever for the MSRP. I'm not going to gencon nor am I going to be paying 2-10x the face value of what I wanted during the kickstarter after the fact.
GAMING Company is the key word there. And PB is a GAMING company above all else. They might have a new game that was funded through a KS, but they are primarily a gaming company. As such, con exclusives are par for the course.
I am not now, nor have I EVER been a fanboy of Palladium Books. I don’t like the mechanical RPG system; it’s clunky and is laid out like a drunkard did the typesetting. The last Palladium book I purchased was Macross 2 deck plans, and that was for a scratch build I was working on at the time.
As to the “insult” about the whining, that’s exactly what it sounds like; the petulant whinning of children. “We did not get a Max during the KS, and now PB is giving them away at GenCON” wahhhh. Ugh. It’s the same people who were whining during the whole KS that the stretch goals were wasted, and how this mech or that mech is NEVER going to get done because PB is screwing up and people are going to get robbed because it’s PB. Every action PB does according to these naysayers is a direct insult to the “fans”, and them personally.
I am looking forward to RTT, but the anti-PB rants with every announcement (or lack of announcement) get reallllly tiresome.
If you find the community responses that annoying, you might as well avoid/ignore everything to do with the project for the next half year, because out of 5,500'ish backers and untold numbers of fans, someone, somewhere will find a reason to complain.
Basically, complaining about complaining can be even more obnoxious than the original complaints. The former is a representation of the fans passion for the project. The latter is just whining about people not behaving just how you'd like them to. Sorry to say, but the only people we have control over is ourselves, so even if Warboss and I and the rest of the Dakka community who participated chose to be 110% positive about every last thing they do, there are thousands of others who might take issue with X, Y or Z.
Telling people how they should or are allowed to feel is tellingly self centered and rude.
I am looking forward to RTT, but the anti-PB rants with every announcement (or lack of announcement) get reallllly tiresome.
You know what I find "realllly tiresome"? Not having any mention of the status let alone the results of the Design the Ace contest when they were supposedly judging them in the first week of this month. What else is "realllly tiresome"? Having a company who hasn't hit one of their unrealistic release dates in over a decade suddenly mention in official communications that the kickstarter will be delivered 1-2 months earlier than the KS estimate when at the same time they're ironically breaking their silence about the delay of the pledge manager phase (a very paradoxical duo). The exclusion of 99% of kickstarter backers from getting a mini that was the most clamored for unreleased model is just the icing on the cake and it's only been a few weeks since the end of the Kickstarter; I shudder at how much they could screw up possibly in the *next* 5-6 months even if they get the stuff out on time.
I participated in the kickstarter DESPITE what palladium has done over the past few decades of decidely anti-community actions because of the my love of Robotech and because they genuinely ran a good kickstarter (both in terms of content, value, and communication). None of the above will affect what was offered and paid for in the KS but rather chips away at the potential good will they earned through the KS (and therefore affects my participation in future offerings). Macross is my favorite era by far so I won't be very affected if I simply stop right there but I wouldn't mind getting a Southern Cross or REF army (or whatever name they're retconning that to) especially if it supports a company that has changed its ways whose IPs I really used to enjoy (like Rifts in addition to Robotech). I praised and defended them during the kickstarter when they deserved it and I'll criticize them when they warrant it after. Palladium has a horrible reputation garnered from many unfriendly and bad moves over the past decade. If you don't want to hear complaints about them when they do something that is generally viewed as a bad idea, you really should simply avoid threads/topics/blogs/new reports on the matter between now and December and just stick to the emailed offical Kickstarter updates.
Forar wrote: If you find the community responses that annoying, you might as well avoid/ignore everything to do with the project for the next half year, because out of 5,500'ish backers and untold numbers of fans, someone, somewhere will find a reason to complain.
Basically, complaining about complaining can be even more obnoxious than the original complaints. The former is a representation of the fans passion for the project. The latter is just whining about people not behaving just how you'd like them to. Sorry to say, but the only people we have control over is ourselves, so even if Warboss and I and the rest of the Dakka community who participated chose to be 110% positive about every last thing they do, there are thousands of others who might take issue with X, Y or Z.
Telling people how they should or are allowed to feel is tellingly self centered and rude.
First off, I did not say that the community response was annoying. I specifically said the anti-PB rants were getting tiresome. I also said the same knee jerk rants sounded like the petulant whining of children. Not complaints, not comments, but the knee jerk reaction of certain people to go into great depth about how everything PB does is a personal affront to them.
People who aren't entirely pleased with Palladium's history, reputation or actions are part of the community, it's rather difficult to separate them out like that unless you're going some "no true scotsman" on the matter. Doubly so when that community is based on backers, people who've already plunked down hundreds (or in the case of some truly crazy folks, thousands) of dollars for a project that has "THIS WILL PROBABLY BE LATE" written all over it.
It is possible to be a fan while remaining wary and critical.
I used to own almost every single book Palladium had released, and have three dozen sitting above me on a shelf at this very moment.
That doesn't mean I won't speak up when I have concerns regarding their activities.
So, in the Max figure kerfuffle, I forgot to post this from the KS comments:
In case anyone was interested, it looks like Alliance Distributions has added what they call short solicit preorders for the first batch of Robotech RPG Tactics stuff. So things are starting to move along. The boxed set has a MSRP of $90 and the Valkyrie, both Destroid, Battlepod and Artillery Pod sets are set at $30. The Zentraedi Command Pack is set at $35. So we really did get a nice deal in the KS and it does look like not everything from it will be available in retail right away.
Some rough napkin math makes it appear that the base box was roughly 10% off (20%'ish if you got an early bird), the individual sets were around 20-40% off, and the Battle Cry may indeed be a simply absurd and rocking good deal.
There's a local store that typically sells at a 20-30% discount, but after adding local taxes I think my crew will still come out on top, doubly so since it appears they're taking the X-Wing route and releasing to the general public in waves.
Which also means that the Pledge Manager may be the first chance in some time to get our hands on the figures that aren't part of said first wave. I mean, they could release new ones weekly, but I suspect more of a monthly schedule, if that.
Not that anyone should go drop $Macross on them, but it does make our pledge manager updates a little more informed. My crew and I are sorting that out between the three of us, and it led to the realization that the much maligned Daedalus pack actually makes sense for us (we were going to get 3 MACs, and lately two of us have realized we'd like to beef up our Destroid numbers as well).
Which also means that the Pledge Manager may be the first chance in some time to get our hands on the figures that aren't part of said first wave. I mean, they could release new ones weekly, but I suspect more of a monthly schedule, if that.
It might also mean that the KS stuff will be released in waves as well. I was a bit surprised that the KS didn't mention shipping waves as most other big offerings (zombicide, mantic anything, etc) seem to come out that way. The core set plus add-on boxes of individual mecha types in the core set seems like a good place to start since they require the same moulds and can be made in the same run.
I dunno, even flat rate boxes add up when you're potentially sending out 2 or 3 waves of them.
I guess it's possible, but I'd be surprised, especially dealing with multiple shipments to 4700+ people. That could rapidly ascend into hundreds of thousands of dollars on S&H alone.
As an entirely uneducated guess, my assumption had been that they'd get the molds made for everything, and use the Pledge Manager to note that they needed X thousand MAC II's and Y thousand FPA and just produce that many (with a little excess to cover QA and whatnot) and then get back to pushing out untold numbers of base boxes and the first five expansion boxes (especially if they do get 'em out by Nov/Dec and want some stock on shelves and on hand for the holidays).
I just have trouble believing that a company with no modern minis experience with two massively delayed crowdfunding endeavors teaming up with a company with considerable experience in minis that didn't stop their own KS from being significantly delayed will result in an on time one wave product.
It's possible and obviously the best case scenario for them to come out with everything early and in one wave to save on shipping but I wouldn't count on that personally. Bigger companies that are more experienced with minis and kickstarters feel the need to ship multiple waves from the get go (like Mantic and Reaper) but I admit there may be different circumstances behind the scenes. I'd personally be fine with splitting the cost of 2 wave shipping ($5 extra charge) if that means that the core box and extras from that core box get to me months earlier instead of being delayed. The resin limited edition items can likely be made in house so they could be included as well.
Seeing a pledge manager would go a long way toward having a positive attitude towards pb and this whole thing at this point. Right now it feels a lot like I'm watching Scrouge McDuck swimming in his vault filled with our money.
warboss wrote: I'd personally be fine with splitting the cost of 2 wave shipping ($5 extra charge) if that means that the core box and extras from that core box get to me months earlier instead of being delayed.
$5 in the US perhaps.
I'm generally surprised when S&H even just to Canada (let alone somewhere actually distant) is less than "bend over and think of England".
It may be that they have to do multiple waves, which would be unfortunate, but my guess is that they didn't plan on it from the start, otherwise the S&H fees would've needed to be a lot higher. $50 for 4 boxes and unlimited add ons to anywhere in the world? Flat rate boxes only hold so much, and I think to Canada it's $30+. Two waves of shipping would go past what I paid in, and I believe some parts of Europe are closer to 40 or 50 per box.
Again, not saying it won't happen, but if it does I hope they've got some of that money pile set aside, 'cause the USPS is a harsh and costly mistress.
Indeed... I was referring to the US (my personal frame of reference).
On a related note, I'm happy to announce that the Robotech Macross ranking track (the thing under your username to the left) is working and available. Just go to your profile, select the edit profile link, and it'll be listed halfway down the page under the track pull down menu. Enjoy!
p.s. How bad is it that the only news in the entire month since the end of the Kickstarter (which is exactly today) is an amateur fan led initiative?
At this point I'm just kind of fascinated to see if they'll talk to the backers officially about the Max figure at all.
I'm sure many people would be happier with a polite "no, sorry" than this utter silence on the matter. Dozens (hundreds?) of forum posts between here, the PB forums and the KS comments later, not one official update. A casual tidbit of info dropped in the 'weekly updates', but nothing to the backers themselves.
Hell, I even suggested that they could make a winking comment about that kind of figure possibly ending up as something that might be provided as prize support for the tournaments they mention wanting to run in their RRT news brief at the end of their posts, or perhaps a player reward system for participation in events. I'm not a tournament player in anything but the most casual sense, but I'd probably make at least an attempt if they had local events and a chance to either win or eventually earn figures we didn't have access to otherwise.
Or, y'know, just add them to the bloody pledge manager for $5-10 and let those who are clamouring for them put their money where their mouths are.
Between the general silence/sense of being ignored and continued assertions of a possible early release while we're already seeing (albeit, minor) delays on the survey/pledge manager, I'm not exactly overwhelmed with confidence.
Edit: and for those who keep saying "omg con exclusive is exclusive" and whatnot, Wyrd miniatures who produces the game Malifaux makes their gencon exclusive figures (a "nightmare" figure/crew box and a female sculpt of a male figure ("Miss ____") available through their online store as well. The books and figures are bought at MSRP, so it's not cheap to get them, but one of the latter is given freely to any order (online or in person) of $100 or more. Surely if a small company like Wyrd can pull such a thing off, it's not impossible for ND/PB to pull off either. I'm sure it's not the standard way companies work, but I also assume they're not alone in making their 'exclusive' figures available to their fanbase either.
Yeah, the only "news" has been their usual "ZOMG! We're working hard and you'll love it!" press releases that are pretty much the same every week or two just with a different order of the same products being raved about, even when talking about the previous crowfunded RPG books that are now almost a year late. In the end, if they do get the stuff out on time, that's the most important thing... but the lack of a timely pledge manager as well as the ignoring of the Design an Ace contest for weeks and on top of the whole Max GenCon only mini has taken most of the wind out of my enthusiasm sails. I've sold a bunch of stuff over the past few weeks here at the swap shop and at bartertown that I had expected to funnel into the pledge manager for even more add-ons (I didn't go too crazy during the actual KS.. just blitzkrieg plus two add ons) but frankly I'll likely just save the money for other stuff and just wait and see how much traction the game gets locally. The value in the basic pledge is enough so that I'll have plenty of minis for one on one games of 2 hours or so.
Hm.... I had no money, so I pledged $23 for Rick's Veritech so I could upgrade to 2x War Cry. Now I'm wondering if I should simply let it ride if Palladium is up to their usual crap.
Eh, while annoying, I consider this pretty tame so far.
The Max thing is irritating on a few levels, but not to a "I wish I could rescind my pledge" degree. More like a huffy sigh, rolling of the eyes and "Oh you..." and maybe some dark muttering when people try to tell me my opinion is wrong and call me names while doing so.
Seriously, there are some lost souls in that comments section.
"Meh" communication? Eh, we'll see when the PM actually goes out. If we do see it in the next 4 or 5 days (hell, I'd accept by Monday July 1st without much complaint), but until then it's really not that much worse off than many large KS's I've been a part of.
So I'm not trying to dissuade you outright, but so far I wouldn't consider these dealbreakers just yet. Annoyances, possible red flags for some, but the Battle Cry tier is a pretty damn sweet deal. Showdown (2 x Battle Cry with slightly cheaper shipping) even moreso.
Basically, no matter what they say, I'd tack on at least an extra 3-6 months in delays, and if it gets out "on time" we'll all be that much happier. If they actually get it out early (as in, during the fall) I'll likely be flabbergasted.
Yeah, it's not close to a deal breaker even with my expressed reservations so far. They've been at most varying degrees of annoying mixed with stupid that has almost completely blunted my enthusiasm. At this point, I'd still tell interested people to take advantage of the $140 level but advise them not to go in for more just in case it's massively delayed or screwed up. If they continue their displays of ignorant arrogance on top of significant delays or crappy quality in the macross release, then it would be a deal breaker for my participation in future releases.
So, what's the over/under on the PM actually getting out before July?
I remain cautiously optimistic, and would even take July 1st in a pinch (6 weeks to the day after the campaign ended), but if they want to build any leeway about being more on top of things, hitting a mark they've set for themselves would go a long way.
Forar wrote: So, what's the over/under on the PM actually getting out before July?
I remain cautiously optimistic, and would even take July 1st in a pinch (6 weeks to the day after the campaign ended), but if they want to build any leeway about being more on top of things, hitting a mark they've set for themselves would go a long way.
My bet is that if it isn't here by Sunday, I won't be here until the 8th.
Apparently it was posted in a peripherally related thread on the general Palladium forum that the pledge manager has been moved from "June" to sometime in the next two weeks. No news on the Design an Ace contest nor has anything been posted since early June officially on the kickstarter. Yup... it's business as usual at Palladium.
warboss wrote: Apparently it was posted in a peripherally related thread on the general Palladium forum that the pledge manager has been moved from "June" to sometime in the next two weeks. No news on the Design an Ace contest nor has anything been posted since early June officially on the kickstarter. Yup... it's business as usual at Palladium.
Granted, they have to produce the molds either way, and they have tons of production to do of the base sets (for backers and retail alike), so presumably they can just produce the non-wave 1 stuff last (and continue working on it after the first shipment goes out). Meaning it might not hold up further parts of the process.
But that doesn't exactly make me any happier that the PM's being delayed.
You just have to watch the Palladium news releases.
And their forums.
And the ND facebook page.
.... just strangely not a thing on the KS page.
*facepalm*
Like I said... business as usual for palladium. I guess the post kickstarter communication is organized like one of their books. If you want to clarify rule x, you don't look under the topic heading of rule x but rather memorize that it tucked in midparagraph under the discussion of peripherally related item y.
You just have to watch the Palladium news releases.
And their forums.
And the ND facebook page.
.... just strangely not a thing on the KS page.
*facepalm*
Actaully, the ND Facebook has one 'update' since the KS has ended. The 'design an ace's contest has no news whatsoever.
Yes, you have to follow the PB updates and forums and those are mostly the same. Stuff looks great and rules are getting some polish. Why should we believe that when you can show us some pictures of the process?
But, what about ND? Why isn't there any updates from them?
Looks like in honor of the 100th!! update on the Kickstarter, Ninja Division and Palladium have posted what they consider to be the answers to everything we've been asking and details that we've been wanting. Here it is in its unedited full hundreth anniversary fan communication glory:
Spoiler:
Hey, everybody. We're hoping to get the Surveys sent out his week, so heads up, everyone. Expect another, more detailed update very soon.
At least it wasn't Kev S coming out saying its awesome and we'll love it. Really, that's for me and everybody else to decide. Talking about how the rules are tight yet many folks on the PB forums want a rules overhaul since its the same system for 30+ years. Tight indeed.
Cypher-xv wrote: At least it wasn't Kev S coming out saying its awesome and we'll love it. Really, that's for me and everybody else to decide. Talking about how the rules are tight yet many folks on the PB forums want a rules overhaul since its the same system for 30+ years. Tight indeed.
Are they sating the RT rules are tight, or the Palaldium RPG system is tight? The RT system is an unknown (at least to me) and is hopefully at least in playtest. The Plaadium System has been around for decades and really hasn't advanced since the 80s. It worked reasonably well for TMNT, but not nearly as well for the 1st edition Robotech RPG.
Oh, and a local store has listed their prices for the Robotech figures. As expected, cheaper than MSRP by 10-15% (including taxes), slightly more than the KS prices. But just barely. Like, a Valkyrie or Destroid pack is only $1-2 more than the KS add on price, meaning the Wave One figures are a fairly low priority in my eyes. Things that aren't due out in the first set of releases, however, becomes a much more attractive buy.
Keep in mind, Ontario has 13% taxes, so those numbers are actually a bit higher at the register, hence my comments on them being "slightly more than the KS". Far as I know they don't ship outside of Canada, but I'd be surprised if we didn't see more stores (local and online) adopt similar pricing schemes.
Just a heads up all over, depending on your local/trusted online shops, anything in the 'first wave' can probably be picked up at retail for roughly the KS price, maybe even less if you have a great store in the area or a frequent customer discount. The real targets for additional funding, in my eyes, are the figures that aren't due out immediately.
Though yes, that does require assuming we get shipped the whole batch at the same time, but I stand firm that mailing out 2 or more shipments would be a simply staggering amount of extra work and resources, even in flat rate boxes.
Cypher-xv wrote: At least it wasn't Kev S coming out saying its awesome and we'll love it. Really, that's for me and everybody else to decide. Talking about how the rules are tight yet many folks on the PB forums want a rules overhaul since its the same system for 30+ years. Tight indeed.
Are they sating the RT rules are tight, or the Palaldium RPG system is tight? The RT system is an unknown (at least to me) and is hopefully at least in playtest. The Plaadium System has been around for decades and really hasn't advanced since the 80s. It worked reasonably well for TMNT, but not nearly as well for the 1st edition Robotech RPG.
Just hope ND has 100% control over the rules. That way they will be playable. If KS is involved in the rules we will end up with PB, as a stat for a mecha miniature game.
Just a heads up all over, depending on your local/trusted online shops, anything in the 'first wave' can probably be picked up at retail for roughly the KS price, maybe even less if you have a great store in the area or a frequent customer discount. The real targets for additional funding, in my eyes, are the figures that aren't due out immediately.
Just a heads up all over, depending on your local/trusted online shops, anything in the 'first wave' can probably be picked up at retail for roughly the KS price, maybe even less if you have a great store in the area or a frequent customer discount. The real targets for additional funding, in my eyes, are the figures that aren't due out immediately.
So stick with the War Cry set, then?
The base $140 freebie pledge level and its multiples are you best value as the minis come out to less than $1.50 each and give you a hell of a vsriety as well. $140 gets you skirmish scale units of almost everything (3-6 minis per squad) whereas the higher pledges give you full wargame sized units (assuming both scale games and builds make it to the finished product). If you don't have a ready made play group for robotech, I'd probably suggest the former.
The Battle Cry tier is a really solid deal. The Showdown tier is amazing if you have the cash to spare, and gives you pretty much everything you could want, aside from a few extras (MAC II, Zentraedi Infantry, etc). Personally I'm buying a Showdown and 3 add ons (Armoured Veritech pack, a MAC II and Destroids from my share of a Daedalus), but I may split off with a friend some of the extra stuff I'm not terribly interested in to offset some of those costs.
My point was more that when buying add ons, there's not much point in buying, say, more Destroids or Battlepods for $25 per box if they're likely available in store for $26. Assuming they can be found for roughly the same prices, might as well go for things like the aforementioned MAC II, Gnerls, Power Armour, etc, things that might be in Wave 2 or 3 or whatever, and however many weeks or months it takes to get to them.
TalonZahn wrote: Just go with Reckless, like I did, then you won't need to buy any of that stuff as you already get a dump truck full of them.
Also, I just read their latest update (101) and Survey next week, Pledge Manager to follow.
Who was that dashing fellow that said we wouldn't see it until the 8th at the earliest?
After hearing that they'd both be out in a few weeks and then later revised to June... I won't start holding my breath just yet. Also, I'm not sure who or what you're referring to but the 8th is technically next week.
So you can buy a dozen Recklesses and still need to balance some funding for add ons all the same. :-P
Personally, if you just want enough to field solid groups of units, I think a Battle Cry with a Gnerl Booster (to be able to field a full card of 6) is a pretty damned good deal. The Armoured Battloids for $20 seems quite reasonable as well.
I went with the Showdown because it doubles up the things that you get as mere "upgrade cards" to "full cards" (ie: 6 MPA instead of 3, 6 Gnerls instead of 3, 4 Super VTs instead of 2, 4 of each destroid (depending on how you build the Tomahawks/Defenders), etc, and Added On to round out some of the things that were missing that I wanted.
Sorry if I've missed the point and am writing out in crayon things you already know, but nope, a Reckless doesn't get you everything. Gotta jump through extra hoops for that.
Also, to be full on pedantic, I'm actually in for a Reckless and an extra Battle Cry. 2 buddies joined me, we're buying 5 sets between us and another $300 or so in add ons.
Forar wrote: The Battle Cry tier is a really solid deal. The Showdown tier is amazing if you have the cash to spare, and gives you pretty much everything you could want, aside from a few extras (MAC II, Zentraedi Infantry, etc). Personally I'm buying a Showdown and 3 add ons (Armoured Veritech pack, a MAC II and Destroids from my share of a Daedalus), but I may split off with a friend some of the extra stuff I'm not terribly interested in to offset some of those costs.
My point was more that when buying add ons, there's not much point in buying, say, more Destroids or Battlepods for $25 per box if they're likely available in store for $26. Assuming they can be found for roughly the same prices, might as well go for things like the aforementioned MAC II, Gnerls, Power Armour, etc, things that might be in Wave 2 or 3 or whatever, and however many weeks or months it takes to get to them.
Yeah, I'm looking at Showdown (is 2x Battle Cry). Reckless is too rich for me (unless you want to put in for me, TalonZahn? )
Assuming I upgrade to Showdown, the add-ons are likely to be more than I can afford/be willing to add on as extras, especially since I can get them later at retail for not much more. At a stretch I might go for Armoured Valkyries as well, but that's simply because of loving the things when I was young. Which I guess is the same motivation for being in this KS at all.
I know that Reckless doesn't get everything but since I went in for $1000.00 I got Reckless and the other $480 was for multiples of the other stuff you listed.
So crayon a little bit, but I agree with what you're saying.
Az I would but I do have to save some money for when I do finally get fed up with this place and move to Australia like I keep swearing I will.
I really hope for answers to three questions (at the moment) before the PM goes live. Or during it, at the absolute latest;
1) Can backers buy the Gencon figures?
2) From what we've seen, the figures are going to be released in waves, so any (even tentative) details they have on that.
3) Confirmation that the backer boxes will be shipped with everything at the same time. It's what I'm assuming to be the case, but it'd be good to know for certain. Especially depending on what we hear regarding point #2.
Cypher-xv wrote: At least it wasn't Kev S coming out saying its awesome and we'll love it. Really, that's for me and everybody else to decide. Talking about how the rules are tight yet many folks on the PB forums want a rules overhaul since its the same system for 30+ years. Tight indeed.
Are they sating the RT rules are tight, or the Palaldium RPG system is tight? The RT system is an unknown (at least to me) and is hopefully at least in playtest. The Plaadium System has been around for decades and really hasn't advanced since the 80s. It worked reasonably well for TMNT, but not nearly as well for the 1st edition Robotech RPG.
Just hope ND has 100% control over the rules. That way they will be playable. If KS is involved in the rules we will end up with PB, as a stat for a mecha miniature game.
The preview rules reminds me of the combat in the 1st Ed book. Not to say rule for rule just some of the flavor.
So far I am on the hook for a Showdown, extra Super Valks, Extra arty pods, 2 VF-4's, and a VEF-1.. If funding allows I am going to up to Reckless and 2 VF-4's, 1 VEF-1, and a Monster
It'll be interesting to see how strong the sales remain post release. Obviously they have 5.5k'ish of us hooked, but globally that's a drop in the bucket compared to the numbers they'd need to hold even occasional tournaments in major metropolitan centers.
And while I'm not much of a tournament player, the right price and incentive(s) could see me snagging a seat every so often.
Currently in for Battlecry with extra super valks, armored battloids, gnerls, and the resin SDF-1. Seriously considering spending the extra $30 to upgrade to Showdown so I can skip the extra super valks and gnerls and then adding $20 more for the SDF-1 and calling it good. Maybe just biting the bullet, hitting $300 and getting the armored battloids still.
From their latest murmur on the Palladium website:
Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is hot! You know you have something hot when almost anything you say or do with that product line creates a buzz. We announced in our Gen Con Blast email that the above pair of game pieces would be available for sale at Gen Con, and people went wild. Note: For those of you who have been asking, we have not decided if we’ll be offering these figures for sale to the Kickstarter participants in the upcoming Robotech® Kickstarter Pledge Manger. We’ll discuss the possibility and consider it, but no promises.
Congratulations, Palladium! If you offer the minis as convention only exclusives, you'll get $15 from the Robotech fanboy in me which will end up costing me closer to $25 since I'll have to pay a friend to buy Max and mail it to me. You'll also lose out on the over $150 I've saved up on paypal for extra add-ons with your delayed pledge manager as the consumer advocate and minis wargamer in me is disgusted that you'd take for granted the people who just gave you over $1.4 million with this douche move. Do the right thing, Palladium. Learn from your history of taking your fans for granted that led you to almost close your doors in the recent past and cost you so many customers over the years.
Warboss, I tend to agree. Don't screw the initial backers. Once the game is released, con exclusive models will be ok. But as a back who dropped some substantial bank (upfront), I do not expect to be left in the lurch.
That said, I think I was Showdown, plus extras I had targeted. I don't even remember. I'll figure it out once the pledge manager hits.
I've posted my thoughts both on their forums and in both the general and update specific comments with no reply to any of many complaints posted about this ungrateful move. I don't have an issue with ANY con exclusives after the KS is delivered... I don't have an issue with KS models being offered early in metal as a con exclusive like at Adepticon... I do have a problem with raising $1.4 million and then taking the most asked about and undelivered mini and announcing that you're excluding the people who just gave you that money from getting it only the week after you've gotten the last of their money.
I won't be particularly happy with a No, but I'm glad that they've finally addressed the matter publicly. No, I'm not mollified entirely, that 6 weeks of radio silence from the campaign as a whole, and the weeks of grak, frak, etc stirred up by announcing the figures and letting the opposite sides of the matter each each other alive wasn't helpful, but it's a small start back on the right path.
Also, as I've posted on the PB forums (where some guy has some truly unique opinions about games stores and MSRP), two more shops have begun listing RRT products;
The former has a similar pricing structure to the first shop I listed a few posts ago, the latter has the same MSRP but isn't selling at quite as steep a discount.
Seems to corroborate what we heard about the MSRPs.
Ultimately, a low entry price for a game from a company with such a bad rep may make the kickstarter backers feel less special but is good for the game overall post kickstarter. Despite my misgivings about a multitude of post kickstarter news and general public inactivity, I don't have a problem with the MSRPs being close to the KS add on prices in most cases. I was even fine with their temporarily posted MSRP prices during the KS as well and that was before I became jaded with the recent events. Forar, for your own sanity, I'd recommend giving the fanboys a rest over on the official boards and the KS comments. You won't get through to the shields to maximum defenders and even the jaded ones like Jorel are seemingly impervious to common sense.
I think you misunderstand, I'm just giving people a heads up in general, so we can all make better informed choices when the PM goes live. I had a hunch the prices we were getting weren't far off from MSRP back during the campaign, and am in no way put out by the numbers we're starting to see. If anything, it's good to know that we don't have to gamble everything on the KS campaign due to fears of much higher prices at retail. It's why 2 of the 3 add ons I'm getting aren't available in Wave 1; if I want more Destroids or Battlepods, I know I should be able to get them at a reasonable price locally.
The good deal we got was at the BC tier and higher for all the bonus figures, and (presumably) getting the post Wave 1 stuff before it goes to retail. It really doesn't bother me to get a minor discount when there's a couple hundred bucks in extra models rounding out that tier.
As for the PB fanboys, Jorel is the fanboyiest of the fanboys, but when he's not lashing out at a company with one post and giving them loving tongue baths with another, he can be pretty reasonable.
This one guy claiming to be aiming to open a gaming shop in town, however, is getting called out on the grak spewing from his piehole.
The KS comments have certainly been a battlefield for sanity, but without patting myself on the back so hard I dislocate something, I like to think that I was one of the voices that finally got PB at least thinking about how they'll handle the Max/Miriya figures.
After dealing with so many simply astounding individuals who associate themselves with PB products, I hope all the more that my local crew digs the game. Because I'm sure as hell not going to subject myself to the general community of players at this rate. >.>
Sorry for the delay, as you can imagine we have been working like crazy. For your June 16th question, the Max and Miriya will be a convention exclusive and not available through the Kickstarter. The character stats will be in the core game but the specific pose pieces will be an exclusive. Sorry.
The minis will be released in waves. At present we do not have a release schedule but we will make this information available as we get closer to their release.
We plan to have all pieces in house so everything will ship to the backers will be in one package.
Hope this helps.
Jeff Burke
palladium Books
So it appears the backers aren't getting Max/Miriya2. But on the up side, we can put to rest that "omg maybe the boxes won't have all the figures!" conjecture that occurred in a few places.
Thanks for the update even if I'm not happy with the contents. I guess I've got around $100 extra now in hobby money that was previously earmarked for Robotech add-ons. My existing pledge is enough to find out if there will end up being a Robotech scene in my area and I can use the money for more terrain instead.
Forar wrote: Well, there's good news, and there's bad news.
Sorry for the delay, as you can imagine we have been working like crazy. For your June 16th question, the Max and Miriya will be a convention exclusive and not available through the Kickstarter. The character stats will be in the core game but the specific pose pieces will be an exclusive. Sorry.
The minis will be released in waves. At present we do not have a release schedule but we will make this information available as we get closer to their release.
We plan to have all pieces in house so everything will ship to the backers will be in one package.
Hope this helps.
Jeff Burke
palladium Books
So it appears the backers aren't getting Max/Miriya2. But on the up side, we can put to rest that "omg maybe the boxes won't have all the figures!" conjecture that occurred in a few places.
Doesn't this mean that KS stuff will go out much later than the retail items?
Azazelx wrote: Doesn't this mean that KS stuff will go out much later than the retail items?
I suppose you could read it that way, but they've said in the past that they intend to ship Backers their boxes before the game goes to retail.
When they said that, I read it as a reference to not doing what CMON does in shipping to distributors and selling at cons before backers get theirs. I believe they clarified it at some point and said that when they get the bulk shipments, the backers stuff goes out first and then the distributor stuff is shipped.
I put this in the KS comments as it sums up my thoughts:
It doesn't matter how you slice it. It's a slap in the face to 5,342 people that coughed up nearly 1.5m in an interest free loan to launch this system faster (and cheaper) than PB/ND could have done any other way. There is no excuse, none. If those minis are ready for the biggest Con in the U.S. then it's ready to be mass produced. I would gladly add the cost of both those minis to my $1000 pledge just so I don't have to spend the time and money to go get one. I will also posit that most of the ones purchased at Cons will end up on EBay for double or triple the cost if the buyer knows about this KS or even the popularity of Robotech in general.
Yeah, that KS Exclusive decision sticks in my craw. It certainly doesn't reach unethical, but it easily achieves solid douchiness. Guarantee I'm not adding a nickel to my initial pledge, and I'm not as enthusiastic about it in general.
Post it in the KS comments. Hell, post it in their own forums as well. Their gaining my $15 for Max but losing my $100+ that I had saved up for officer pod boosters, armored veritechs, zentraedi infantry, and objective markers.
I'll level with you guys, it won't stop me from snagging my current lineup of 3 add ons (you'll pry my MAC II and Armoured Battloids from my cold, dead hands). But it definitely kills any interest I had in going above and beyond.
I was easily good for $10-20 more for Max and I've had my eye on a round of infantry (among other things), but now that we've seen some MSRPs and are starting to see actual store prices (tentative as they may be) along with the prolonged sigh this brings out (especially as I've effectively had to stir up a ruckus and only got a PM'd answer after 3 weeks of rabble rousing), I'm definitely scaling back my enthusiasm.
It really feels like a wasted opportunity to snag some extra good will across potentially thousands of backers only to appeal to a couple hundred attendees, and that order of magnitude difference in scale simply makes it all the more baffling. Doubly so in that they're actively garnering some ire from more than just a few backers (and I suspect that number will increase as more people even find out that it's 'a thing'). Like, if interest could be measured, the net outcome here could easily be counter productively negative.
Forar wrote: Like, if interest could be measured, the net outcome here could easily be counter productively negative.
Appeasing a small minority at the expense of the majority is the Palladium way. It's why they don't update their rules despite the overwhelming opinion that they need it in the general gaming community on every site every time their name is mentioned except on their own very insular forum (and even there cracks in the wall have begun to form). I expressed reservations about pledging because of Palladium's general history as well as their history specifically with Robotech (regarding Paulson games) but I gave them another chance. I pledged despite my misgivings and actively stumped for the game both in real life and online. Unfortunately, they seem intent on squandering a significant portion of that good will. The most important thing is getting quality minis on time and if they do that then this whole endeavor will be a success regardless as fans will finally have Robotech minis for the first time since the late 1980's. If they screw that up then I won't be buying anything else of theirs likely ever again (including future Robotech era offerings). If the minis come out nice and on time, I'll consider getting the freebie pledge of the next era as well but no more than that and I certainly won't devote daily time and effort to help it succeed either. My significant enthusiasm for this project is largely gone at this point unfortunately. Maybe after getting the minis and putting a few games under my belt it'll return... but that is dependent on Palladium NOT continuing to screw up.
I think Kevin got fed up with not having much to flog other than his RPG books at these outings.
Having a hot item could help with buzz but at the expense of nerd rage (oh I am upset, but they will be mine...)
I had the "pleasure" of looking him in the eye at "Anime North" and saying "I got most of these books over 15 years ago, there is nothing for Tactics?".
I may have inadvertently helped create this problem.
I find almost all companies treat those who have "pre-paid" as a done-deal sale and will aggressively pursue new sales at the committed customer's expense.
We may see some "limited offer" if he comes back with any remaining.
Forar wrote: Well, there's good news, and there's bad news.
Sorry for the delay, as you can imagine we have been working like crazy. For your June 16th question, the Max and Miriya will be a convention exclusive and not available through the Kickstarter. The character stats will be in the core game but the specific pose pieces will be an exclusive. Sorry.
The minis will be released in waves. At present we do not have a release schedule but we will make this information available as we get closer to their release.
We plan to have all pieces in house so everything will ship to the backers will be in one package.
Hope this helps.
Jeff Burke
palladium Books
So it appears the backers aren't getting Max/Miriya2. But on the up side, we can put to rest that "omg maybe the boxes won't have all the figures!" conjecture that occurred in a few places.
I'm a little confused by what this email is trying to say. Are they really going to wait till all of the models have been produced before sending out a specific backers models? So someone could potentially be waiting until a wave 2 or 3 to receive their entire pledge?
Perhaps I should've included my questioning emails.
I asked:
According to Alliance Distributors and a local store, it appears that the Robotech minis will be released in 2 or more waves. If so, any chance you have further information about those (how often/over what timeframe?).
Also, will the figures be shipped to backers in one package, or will the production cycles necessitate multiple shipments? I assume a single box (as shipping 11,000/16,000+ boxes would be both a massive time/manpower sink and prohibitively expensive), but wanted to know for certain, rather than make those assumptions and possibly be proven incorrect.
And that was their response, along with the response to a previous question about the Max/Miriya Gencon figures.
They're planning to release figures at retail in waves. Hence the short list of 7 or so boxes that is popping up on a few shops and came out a few weeks back from Alliance Distributors. Like how X-Wing is doing things, they just don't have the specifics for how many/how often those waves will be.
But there was some concern based on this fact that they might be shipping out multiple boxes, which seemed crazy to me, and so I asked, and they said it'll be one box.
They've said a few times that they plan to get Backers their boxes before retail, and it's sending one box, ergo, we should be getting a full box of our paid for items before the game goes to retail (though I all but guarantee there'll be at least some backers who see figures on shelves before they get their packages, it's just the nature of trying to ship out nearly 5,500 packages and presumably trying to 'go live' in retail environments ASAP before the Christmas season rush gets into full gear.
TalonZahn wrote: I put this in the KS comments as it sums up my thoughts:
It doesn't matter how you slice it. It's a slap in the face to 5,342 people that coughed up nearly 1.5m in an interest free loan to launch this system faster (and cheaper) than PB/ND could have done any other way. There is no excuse, none. If those minis are ready for the biggest Con in the U.S. then it's ready to be mass produced. I would gladly add the cost of both those minis to my $1000 pledge just so I don't have to spend the time and money to go get one. I will also posit that most of the ones purchased at Cons will end up on EBay for double or triple the cost if the buyer knows about this KS or even the popularity of Robotech in general.
And of course, there ain't no cons for the vast majority of overseas backers. But I keep forgetting about the unwritten law of Kickstarters - our money is still good, but we don't count for gak.
What they are saying doesn't add up. They are releasing stuff in waves, yet we get our models first and they hold it all together until we get one massive box. I'm having a hard time trying to see this ending well. It sounds like some backers really won't get their stuff until after retailers.
Are the prices on Alliance already revealed? I was considering adding to my pledge because I only got the Rick Hunter's Veritech mini and I wanted more, but if the retail prices are ok I may just fore go the kickstarter route.
From what Forar posted, the core set is about $10 cheaper and the add ons are about $5-10 (usually $5) cheaper. I'd suggest going in for the $140 pledge as the minis come out to $1.50 each with a good variety in what you get (and that type of deal will likely never be seen again barring a game store clearance bargain). You don't get everything in the $140 pledge but you'll get enough and you can buy the rest for the same price online or only $5 more at the FLGS and support multiple tiers of the industry (and not just an ungrateful manufacturer).
warboss wrote: From what Forar posted, the core set is about $10 cheaper and the add ons are about $5-10 (usually $5) cheaper. I'd suggest going in for the $140 pledge as the minis come out to $1.50 each with a good variety in what you get (and that type of deal will likely never be seen again barring a game store clearance bargain). You don't get everything in the $140 pledge but you'll get enough and you can buy the rest for the same price online or only $5 more at the FLGS and support multiple tiers of the industry (and not just an ungrateful manufacturer).
The 140 dollar one is exactly the one I was thinking about. It comes with a lot of stuff and I honestly don't see this picking up at my FLGS. It'll probably be myself pushing the game with no one really caring except for my friends(similar deal with X-wing as you know), so I'll take your word for it! Once I can access the pledge manager I'll just bump my pledge up to 140.
The following is *assuming* that they're still coming out with dual skirmish and wargame sized army building. In a nutshell, the skirmish squadrons will be about half the size of the full wargame ones but otherwise use the same stats/rules.
The $140 level gets you almost 100 figs and is plenty enough for a good sized skirmish level game with you supplying the figs for both sides. My plan is to get a set of the Dropzone Commander cardstock buildings and try a few games over at Treefort before or after X-wing game nights after I get a few dozen painted up (which may frankly take me a while!).
Red Comet wrote: What they are saying doesn't add up. They are releasing stuff in waves, yet we get our models first and they hold it all together until we get one massive box. I'm having a hard time trying to see this ending well. It sounds like some backers really won't get their stuff until after retailers.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. There's a lot of stuff in the $140 level - more than two waves worth for retail in my opinion. Probably a 3-4 month release cycle for a competent company at the very least before you look at add-on stretch goals. And I'd assume that even that stuff won't be ready from "the factory in China" all at once. Stretch goal items like Armoured Veritechs and the MACII are pretty much guaranteed to follow later - which means pledges including those items will ship even later.
warboss wrote:The following is *assuming* that they're still coming out with dual skirmish and wargame sized army building. In a nutshell, the skirmish squadrons will be about half the size of the full wargame ones but otherwise use the same stats/rules.
The $140 level gets you almost 100 figs and is plenty enough for a good sized skirmish level game with you supplying the figs for both sides. My plan is to get a set of the Dropzone Commander cardstock buildings and try a few games over at Treefort before or after X-wing game nights after I get a few dozen painted up (which may frankly take me a while!).
Exacltly how big is the Wargame sized game going to be? As it is the Battle Cry Pledge is pricey. Are they going the 40k route with cost?
Azazelx wrote:
Red Comet wrote: What they are saying doesn't add up. They are releasing stuff in waves, yet we get our models first and they hold it all together until we get one massive box. I'm having a hard time trying to see this ending well. It sounds like some backers really won't get their stuff until after retailers.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. There's a lot of stuff in the $140 level - more than two waves worth for retail in my opinion. Probably a 3-4 month release cycle for a competent company at the very least before you look at add-on stretch goals. And I'd assume that even that stuff won't be ready from "the factory in China" all at once. Stretch goal items like Armoured Veritechs and the MACII are pretty much guaranteed to follow later - which means pledges including those items will ship even later.
Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if I don't get my stuff till next year which is really frustrating.
Exacltly how big is the Wargame sized game going to be? As it is the Battle Cry Pledge is pricey. Are they going the 40k route with cost?
The next step up ($260...can't recall the name ATM) gets you the wargame sized armies. For $260, you can't even get a single 1500pt army unless you go super elite/low model count in 40k like all Deathwing Dark Angels... in robotech, you'll get both an RDF and Zentraedi force. Take what I say with a grain of salt though as I'm *not* a play tester and can only repeat what they said in KS comments and make educated guesses from it. Things may have changed significantly in the meantime and real communication is largely lacking post KS.
Exacltly how big is the Wargame sized game going to be? As it is the Battle Cry Pledge is pricey. Are they going the 40k route with cost?
The next step up ($260...can't recall the name ATM) gets you the wargame sized armies. For $260, you can't even get a single 1500pt army unless you go super elite/low model count in 40k like all Deathwing Dark Angels... in robotech, you'll get both an RDF and Zentraedi force. Take what I say with a grain of salt though as I'm *not* a play tester and can only repeat what they said in KS comments and make educated guesses from it. Things may have changed significantly in the meantime and real communication is largely lacking post KS.
Its true 260 bucks doesn't take you very far in 40k now a days. I guess I forgot just how much prices have gone up. I bought most of my stuff when it was all about 10 bucks cheaper and at a discount so I don't actually know how much my 2k Blood Angels army cost. Regardless I doubt the 260 pack is a fully sized or fully optimized army. Its probably a small to medium sized war game for the game which I'm ok with.
If you go to the Kickstarter main page, there's a link to the two main factions with the last points costs per card that we were given.
Using those numbers, we were told that a "300 point game" usually took about an hour, and that the Ninja who posted the comment preferred "600 Point Games",which apparently usually took the better part of an afternoon (obviously doubling the models (roughly) on the board adds enough extra interactions and complexity that it does more than just double the playtime, which doesn't surprise me at all.
And yes, the Battlecry tier gets you 96 figures (70 units between the two factions, at my last count), and a Showdown is a double Battle Cry with a slightly lower cost per box and cheaper S&H.
When you look at the points lists, you'll see there are core cards, upgrades and elite additions. Far as I understand, for the main game you start with a core card (or more) and can choose to add upgrade cards and elite enhancements, as well as card specific upgrades (like better anti-air for destroids, was one example), which all have a point value. From there you aim to get up to the point limit set for the game.
The skirmish mode is basically the same thing, except you only use upgrade and elite cards, so the units are basically half the size. I imagine it'll probably be easier/quicker to learn using smaller Skirmish games (and less intensive on trying to build, prime and paint dozens or hundreds of figures quickly), and then my crew will work towards bigger games as our model count grows.
They've said they plan to get backers their boxes before retail. They are aiming to get to retail in October. Assuming a release schedule with some models per month or per couple of months, this could take us well in to 2014 or beyond.
Which seems more likely? They're going to use the Pledge Manager to get the exact numbers of the non-wave one figures they'll need and produce that many, or they intend to draw absolutely immense community ire by delaying the backer boxes for half a year, giving the people who were initially told they'd have "first shot" at the game the last shot in reality.
Man, I'm not exactly swimming in confidence for PB, but that'd be "pants on head slowed". Like, it'd be financial suicide. If they think the "Max debacle" was annoying, 5,400 angry backers would be bad press they couldn't walk away from, especially if they intend to farm out the production costs onto fans for the next waves.
It's not impossible, but it seems highly unlikely. Even talking about PB.
Edit: I've submitted a KS question to clarify this exact point.
If it makes anyone here feel better, here is a question I pm'd PB yesterday and the response I got today:
Question
Hi Jeff:
Can you confirm the shipping timelines for KS backers vs tailers for me? As an example, I intend to order at least one of every model that was unlocked in the KS. Will I get all or any of those models before retailers?
Thanks!
Answer
Hi,
Our plan is to have everything in the kickstarter sent to the backers before anything hits retail.
Have fun with that pile of game pieces!
Thanks.
Jeff Burke
Palladium Books
Edit: I just now realized that I wrote "tailers" in there. Not sure if that comes across as some kind of hip new slang, or something dirtier... Oh well.
Hopefully we can finally put this "omg they might not ship until after all the waves!" worry to bed.
I mean, aside from those who are still waiting for PB to trip and fall down the stairs or something. Yes, the whole company. All 4 of them or whatever it is. >.>
Well that's a relief. I have no frame of reference for Paladium Books so I'm sorry if I added too much to the fire. I just want to know that my money as a consumer is going to a company that deserves it (somewhat).
Well, a healthy sense of skepticism isn't a bad thing when it comes to PB. Their owner is notorious for getting super excited / enthusiastic about things, promising the moon and falling far short (as in, massive delays, unrealistic release goals (these go hand in hand), etc).
Luckily, Ninja Division is shouldering some of the burden, and it seems to be helping, but we're still quite early in the process (in theory).
Basically, it's a middle point I find myself occupying most often, a place of cautious optimism and reigned in expectations.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Has anyone gotten their survey? I got a request for my address but no chance to pick out my upgrades.
That is the survey, anticlimactic as it is.
The Pledge Manager that's supposed to follow soon (in theory, sometime in the next few days, maybe a week'ish, from what they've said?) will be the place we specify our add ons, including extra boxes/artwork/etc.
Not to worry, they're working 14 hours a day 8 days a week and you'll love it! The palladium groundskeeper can't stop raving about how awesome the experiemental battlepod sprue extras are. /sarcasm.
As SOON as we get the majority of the Survey responses back, Palladium will send you an invitation to the Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Pledge Manager. In the Pledge Manager you will be able to select all the Add-Ons you wanted and even be able to purchase additional Add-Ons! That’s right, you can purchase as many additional Add-Ons as your heart desires in any quantity.
For your information:
When we ship to our Kickstarter supporters – ALL Kickstarter items and Add-Ons will be shipped at the same time.
Kickstarter Backerss will get these items BEFORE they are sold retail.
Only the initial releases (see below) will arrive in the retail packaging. MANY of the items made available to Kickstarter Backers – like the Monster, Ghost and others – will not be made available on the retail market for months down the road. Expansion Packs will be released in waves over time. Our Kickstarter supporters, however, get them right away! That means many of these “advance” Kickstarter items will not come in the retail packaging, but simple bags.
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ – Tactical Battle Game – Coming Fall 2013
This product is in final development. Most of the sculpts are finished and approved by the I.P. holder Harmony Gold. The rules and rule book have been written, edited, approved and are going into layout next week. Product packaging designs are next. Advertising and promotion has already begun.
The Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Box Set has everything you need to get started, with the many expansion packs containing 4-6 game pieces allowing you to build and improve your armies.
Highlights Include:
1/285th scale, high quality, multi-pose plastic game pieces (40mm to 70mm tall). World-class sculpts from sculptors around the world.
Game rules use D6.
Turn-based system of play.
Scalable from small squad skirmishes to mass battles. Can accommodate two to several players.
Combat is fast and designed to emulate the anime action.
Measuring tape required to determine targets and distance.
Release Date: Barring any unexpected delays, the Robotech® RPG Tactics™ box game and initial expansion sets ship Autumn 2013 (November?).
$90 retail price (tentative). The price of the final box set is not yet determined, but we want to hold it around $90.
Cat. No. 55100 (Main Boxed Game).
UPDATE: The First Six Robotech® Expansion Packs
The initial expansion packs will also ship in the Fall. All prices listed are likely, but still tentative. We want most packs to fall in the $25-$35 price range.
UEDF Valkyrie Wing (2x each, Fighter, Guardian, Battloid) – Cat. No. 55201 – $30.00 retail (tentative).
UEDF Destroid Pack (2x Tomahawks, 2x Defenders) – Cat. No. 55202 – $30.00 (tentative).
UEDF Spartan Pack (2x Spartans, 2x Phalanxes), Cat. No. 55203 – $30.00 (tentative).
Zentraedi Regult Battlepod Squadron (6x Regults) – Cat. No. 55401 – $30.00 (tentative).
Zentraedi Support Battlepods (4x Artillery Battlepods) – Cat. No. 55402 – $30.00 (tentative).
Zentraedi Command Pack (1x Glaug, 1x Quel-Regult, 1x Quel-Gulnau) – Cat. No. 55403 – $35.00 (tentative).
Additional expansion packs at intervals throughout 2014. More will follow. Exactly how many, and how fast, will depend on manufacturing considerations, sales and customer demand.
Palladium plans to release the mecha and settings for ALL eras of Robotech®. Many other details are still in development.
Tournament play support is planned. Ninja Division will help Palladium to develop and launch the program sometime in 2014.
UPDATE: UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ – Limited Gen Con Exclusives at Booth #1025 – Palladium Books.
There will be two Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Gen Con Indy Convention Exclusives – Max Sterling’s Valkyrie in Battloid Mode and Myria’s Power Armor – available for purchase. We had hoped to offer more, but it looks like we will only be able to offer 125 of both, each morning, on a first-come, first-served basis. Because of the limited number, customers will be limited to ONE (OF EACH), per person, EVERY MORNING. These are different poses than what was available in the Kickstarter and are resin castings.
We “may” try to make these figures available later on in the Palladium online store, but no promises. The Gen Con exclusives are a way to give gamers who may have missed the Kickstarter an opportunity to get something special too.
We sure hope the Kickstarter Backers know we value and appreciate your support. That’s why you have a multitude of add-ons and Purchase Add-Ons available via the Kickstarter. Many of which will not be made available for retail for quite some time. You special guys and gals in the forefront of this new product line will be the very first to get a ton of the Robotech® game pieces we have planned. And you will love the many advance and special items you’ll be getting. Game on!
Long story short; we will be getting our boxes before retail, and they will contain everything at once, before later waves.
The MSRPs we got before appear to have been accurate.
The last bit about Max and the KS backers falls flat though. "You guys are awesome and we love you and you totally hooked us up and get access to all kinds of amazing stuff!"
Right. Still don't see how that precludes you from giving us the option to snag them as well, or why they felt the need to specifically ignore putting a Max figure in the campaign and then use him for Gencon (if they're willing to do 2 of Miriya, clearly they could've given us 2 Max's).
Eh. They were hot and heavy with KS updates, they really should be putting this out that way as well, but hey, at least it's something.
What time do the doors open and will Kevin be there?
I'm looking at my work schedule right now and I'm 10 hours away.
I want to make sure it's worth the drive and paying a hobo to hold first place in line at the door.
10am to 6pm on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. 10am to 4pm on Sunday. VIGs/Press can get in at 9 or 9:30 on Thursday.
No idea if Kevin will be there.
there are usually a few entrances to the hall, you can see a map here: http://files.gencon.com/2013.sm.exhibitors.map.pdf PB is at booth 1025, next to Wyrd and Fantasy Flight, and appears to be a straight shot from the Hall I entrance.
Living over here it is mildy disappointing that there is no chance of picking these exclusives up except via Evil Bay.
However, unless you are a completist what are you actually missing, a single uniquely posed resin Valk and a FPA. Given the multi pose possibilities of the plastic models and the the Valk at least is generic apart from its colour scheme, is it that much of a deal?
My concern is to get my pledge fulfilled somewhere around the end of the year. If it drifts from there to somewhere mid 2014 then I will start to get peeved.
There is a "cityscape" package that is scaled at 10mm which is VERY inexpensive and you could print out buildings to the proper scale (if you are a stickler) while using the base tiles.
If you find anything else not listed, please contribute and add to it.
So, any bets on the odds that one can read between the lines on them saying there 'may be ways for people who missed the campaign to join in' and having Gencon exclusives and the fact the Pledge Manager is supposed to be a month long and is supposed to come out in the next few days?
To be clear, if they hope to draw in attention at Gencon, and make it possible to join the Pledge Manager, and the Pledge Manager doesn't end until after Gencon is over, that'd all be awfully convenient, wouldn't it?
And those GenCon people would be able to pickup Max & Mirya, but those of us who already ponied out money wouldnt be able too... sounds like the Palladium thing to do
Well, we are getting a Miriya already, though I know that does little to placate the hardcore collectors who want to catch 'em all.
According to their FB profile, there will be a retail version of Max as well, but unless it comes out a month after the boxes go to retail, I can't see myself bothering, since I'll probably just paint up one from the VT's I get. Getting one along with the rest of my stuff was part of the point.
And if nothing else, I remain annoyed that they had fans arguing for 4 weeks about this crap before they bothered to say anything.
They still haven't bothered to say anything on the actual kickstarter for fear that even more people will realize they're getting excluded right after pocketing their money. Only the hardcore fans that follow the Kickstarter *outside* of the kickstarter through the various independent and company run forums and announcements know about the "not for backers" figures.
Which is really frustrating because every time someone chimes in about it, you get a half dozen people mocking and belittling their opinion.
Like, yeah, I get it, some people have gone on about this for over a month. But if the word "Max" gets you into 'point and laugh mode', I can't imagine it's going to end anytime soon as more and more people find out about it in the coming weeks and go looking for more info/answers.
There's at least two on the comments and 1 on the PB forums who seem to be more interested in making their b***s feel big than doing anything helpful.
Though I've gotta say, throwing the MSRPs in that one guy's face felt really, really good.
The funny thing is the same dozen or so posters keep belittling the *NEW* people who come in to post their feelings (usually negative) and at the same time tell them that they're just a tiny minority. The overwhelming (but admittedly subjective) response by both post count and number of individual posters was negative and I suspect that the response from the 95% of people who don't check the comments would likely be the same. Yeah, I've seen you sparring with the same canadian guy both on the KS comments and the PB boards where he goes out of his way to insult everyone personally. If he didn't have such apparent local knowledge of the canadian game store scene, I would have sworn he was a dummy account for Akashic after his dramatic "Goodbye, cruel world!" supposedly final post.
The best part was that when things started, I hadn't gotten around to updating my location yet.
"Oh, really? Funny, I'm in the same town, HOW AWESOME FOR YOUR SUPPOSED FUTURE STORE!"
Edit: for clarity, I'm not insinuating other than that I'd be happy to talk smack about the owner's simply astounding attitude and service oriented approach to communications to any and every gamer in the area I know.
In case anyone is having problems figuring out how to go from Battle Cry to Showdown or greater, the way to do it is to add the Greater package and then add -1 for the Battle Cry. Took me a little while to figure it out.
Unfortunately that doesn't work. I tried to do -1 amount of the 15 dollar pledge and then +1 for Battle Cry and I can't get it to work. =( I'm stuck paying 140 dollars extra as it stands right now.
TalonZahn wrote: Pledge Manager is out and it is probably the best one I've ever seen. Cart style system, running total, and just well done.
Hopes are rising...
It's the pretty standard system from BackerKit, third party pledge manager service that exists because KS does, I've used it a couple other times on KS.
I was doing my sums on all the addons I wanted (doubling destroids, super valks and artillery, getting enough fighters to make squads, units not included in the packages) to put with my BattleCry, and it turned out that for what I wanted, I could get exactly the same for just $20 more by getting a Showdown and the addons I want not included in the package, except with double the battlepods and veritechs for -2 each of the UEDF fighters, plus spare copies of the rules, cards, dice and KS exclusive characters to sell if I want, though starting to suspect that KS exclusive tag isn't going to be all that exclusive.
Azazelx wrote: Does it send you an invoice, or does it want you to check out immediately?
You go through a check out, give them your CC details, get a pledge confirmation in your email listing everything you pledged and added, and the CC details are held securely to be charged whenever it is they're ending the pledge manager.
Ah, like the Hell Dorado one then. I really dislike those. I'd rather have either a PayPal invoice I can pay in my own time, or an option for immediate credit card checkout/payment - being international, the prices can change a bit, and I hate having stuff that will actually go through "sometime".
Red Comet wrote: Unfortunately that doesn't work. I tried to do -1 amount of the 15 dollar pledge and then +1 for Battle Cry and I can't get it to work. =( I'm stuck paying 140 dollars extra as it stands right now.
Yeah it turns out it didn't work for me as well. On the first page it shows the right order and price, then when they ask for my credit card it asks for the right amount, but when I got the order confirmation it didn't remove the Battle Cry and was going to charge me for a full Showdown. I sent them an email asking what to do. In the meantime if anyone knows what to do I'd love to hear it.
Azazelx wrote: Ah, like the Hell Dorado one then. I really dislike those. I'd rather have either a PayPal invoice I can pay in my own time, or an option for immediate credit card checkout/payment - being international, the prices can change a bit, and I hate having stuff that will actually go through "sometime".
Sorry but deferred credit card payment only, no paypal.
Red Comet wrote: Unfortunately that doesn't work. I tried to do -1 amount of the 15 dollar pledge and then +1 for Battle Cry and I can't get it to work. =( I'm stuck paying 140 dollars extra as it stands right now.
Yeah it turns out it didn't work for me as well. On the first page it shows the right order and price, then when they ask for my credit card it asks for the right amount, but when I got the order confirmation it didn't remove the Battle Cry and was going to charge me for a full Showdown. I sent them an email asking what to do. In the meantime if anyone knows what to do I'd love to hear it.
I sent them an email as well. I'm still awaiting a reply. You are in a bad spot though because adding on the showdown is a lot more than adding battlecry to the rick hunter model. Hopefully they can clear this up for both of us.
Funny how the math works out like that, I wonder if it's intentional or just a happy coincidence.
At the Reckless tier you'd see a small difference though.
BC x 4 + 30 = 590, a Reckless is just 520 + 50 for 570. Not a huge savings, but good to know it was worth snagging.
Also, once you have S&H covered, higher tiers shine a little more. Adding a Showdown outright is $130 per box, so there's some savings no matter how you cut it.
They sent out a survey that asked for your address and phone number. Presumably you filled this out if they sent you the pledge manager link (Supposedly one required the other. Don't ask).
If all you paid for was a tier (battle cry or whatever) and you're happy with that, I can't see why it'd be an issue, but at the same time, what's the harm in firing up the PM and confirming that. Probably take like 30 seconds and you've jumped through all the hoops.
Forar wrote: As per the recent update, changing your pledge tier requires calling them directly. They include the number in the update.
What a great idea, only problem is, people have pledged all around the world, does that mean they will have to purchase a calling card to change their pledge
Perhaps I wasn't clear; I never said it was a good idea guys.
Don't shoot the messenger. :-P
That said, as noted above, when you run the math it isn't that big a deal for a lot of cases.
Going from 1 Battle Cry to a Showdown is the exact same amount apparently as just going for 2 Battle Crys ($310 after S&H). Showdown + BC, same. BC + Showdown might actually be a little cheaper, wonder if that'll be cleared up by the end. It seems to be more that kind of situation, or jumping to like Reckless and above that warrants more attention.
Help me out here folks. I'm a little leery about PB, so I only put in for the $15 pledge figuring I could upgrade later if it made sense. I haven't given the KS much thought either while it was going on or afterwards. From what we've seen/heard up to this point, is the consensus that PB is going to deliver more or less on time a product that isn't busted (insert SW reference here)? Battle Cry worth a go?
Triple9 wrote: Help me out here folks. I'm a little leery about PB, so I only put in for the $15 pledge figuring I could upgrade later if it made sense. I haven't given the KS much thought either while it was going on or afterwards. From what we've seen/heard up to this point, is the consensus that PB is going to deliver more or less on time a product that isn't busted (insert SW reference here)? Battle Cry worth a go?
Battlecry is an excellent deal and would not be too painful if anything goes wrong.
You can never be 100% sure with ship date but the models are in the care of Ninja Div so I think that at least will work out. They have some history of getting things done well. The rules have three people in charge of it that are old hands so I expect that to work out too.
The ONLY issue is Palladium has a proven track record of not hitting release dates BUT it looks like little is dependent on them specifically.
I expect worst case to be Easter next year, if they do as promised: before Christmas.
<<edit>> Remember that they MUST get the designs out, molds made and start pumping out models without any feedback from us.
One way or another they have to hit the ground running.
If they are waiting in ANY way for customer feedback at this point it would be foolish.
Thanks. Sounds reasonable. I do have faith in Ninja, who seem to be the main stakeholders at this point. I guess the big X factor no one knows is how much micromanagement is going on behind the scenes, but if was excessive something would have probably popped up on the rumor mill. Might as well upgrade, it's not an obscene amount of money.
Triple9 wrote: Thanks. Sounds reasonable. I do have faith in Ninja, who seem to be the main stakeholders at this point. I guess the big X factor no one knows is how much micromanagement is going on behind the scenes, but if was excessive something would have probably popped up on the rumor mill. Might as well upgrade, it's not an obscene amount of money.
From various comments over the past few months, everything Ninja does has to be approved first by Palladium who then send it off to be approved by Harmony Gold. From the cumbersome name of the game to some of the unnecessary straight from the RPG previewed rules, Palladium definitely has a hand in the actual development of the rules (and one of their top 3 guys is co-author/developer of the rules not-surprisingly). I frankly was surprised to see it be a d6 base system instead of using the mid-1980's d20/percentile mashup that the RPGs use.
My current assumption is that they're just bulk producing thousands upon thousands of the main boxes and stuff that'll be going to retail (no worries about waste), then the non-wave one stuff will be pumped out in the final weeks before everything needs to be fired off for distribution.
I mean, a tight timetable if they actually manage to deliver on time (Dec) or their current target (end of Oct), but yeah, with all the hands this stuff has to pass through, I'm remaining skeptical until we start seeing solid updates like the Dwarven Forge guys are giving.
They replied really fast to change my pledge. It seems like they have their stuff together. This is a good sign considering I got the email only a day after I sent one to them.
My last remaining thought on this is: would they figure out a way to get wave one stuff out for normal retail before we get all the later release models and thus our kickstarter package.
The evil part of me could see it being really tempting....
<<edit>> Never mind that some enterprising kickstarter people could start selling the later release models on ebay for the general public which would compete with Paladium somewhat and their release schedule.
This kickstarter thing is really interesting from a sales point of view.
They have specifically said that they intend to send us everything at the same time, and before it goes to retail. Going back on their word on this would probably be... unwise.
btw, according to a Facebook comment, the Pledge Manager lockdown date seems to be August 31st.
40 days and counting to finalize those totals!
Also, yes, presumably people could start selling figures in advance of their release date. I'd be shocked if there weren't some people buying up extra battle cry sets to sell off, piecemeal or in their entirety. Considering the massive savings found within (I've estimated 1/4 to 1/3 retail cost) it'd be hard to have a full on loss, barring the game collapsing entirely right out the gate, but it wouldn't be without some risks. Using ebay or local listings to move hundreds of figures could be a giant pain in the butt.
Hell, pondered doing it for a while myself, but I'll likely hold onto my Showdown, as it gives me enough figures to field either side at 1100-1200 points (and I suspect most of our games will be in the 300-600 range anyway, anything bigger will probably be team games with split point totals).
I mean, we're only getting around 15-35% off MSRP for anything not in the Battlecry (or so it seems, using the numbers from during the campaign and from what they've said/comparing against the current numbers), so I doubt they're very worried about those. Assuming the BC itself is basically at cost, at that point you have some enterprising individuals basically paying them directly for some distributor level deals and then doing the legwork trying to drum up sales, which is essentially free marketing.
Considering how many figures a person can feasibly pick up just to have a rounded out set, then add in collectors and Battletech players, I think the demand will outstrip even a dedicated effort to profit on the monopoly we'll have on them to start. Anyone who could put a real dent in sales is basically paying them for the right to take that gamble.
My crew of 3 is currently in for 6 boxes and some add ons. I might boost one guy's BC up to a Showdown as a christmas present, and at 7 boxes it's tempting to just go double Reckless and see if there's any interest in the figures. Was thinking of doing that originally with part of my showdown (the second base box and some of the extras), but it'd start straining my ability to field the units I'd like to have access to, so I ignored it.
Interesting. According to the KS comments, someone is claiming that they've been told that production will be done in the US and France, unlike the assumption we'd been working with that the figures would be produced in China and sent to distributions centers from there.
Platuan4th wrote: What, no one's gonna Nerd Raeg and back out because Harmony Gold sued Hasbro over a toy?
I want my DCM money back, you disappoint, DramaDrama.
I really have to laugh, that toy makes hardly any attempt to be different.
No nerd rage here when people do really stupid things (It is like they were begging to get nailed, maybe looking for a lawsuit for publicity?)
Something that people need to understand is that, at least from what I've seen of US Intellectual Property/Trademark/etc law, you often need to actively pursue possible infringements, otherwise those can build up as a defense whenever you do decide to pursue something serious. "Why the big deal now? They didn't care when Chasbro was making Brobotech figures!"
Don't get me wrong; I'm also aware that a good many people (and entire industries) are swapping simply silly amounts of money between patent trolling and illegitimate claims and flat out shenanigans, but it's not always purely black and white.
So, nope, no nerd rage here. That fighter is *awfully* similar to a veritech, right down to the colour scheme, and given that this is Hasbro we're talking about, you'd think they'd have learned their lesson with Jetfire.
Hell, first glance at the picture, I thought it was a re-release of Jetfire and got excited! Then I saw it was a GI Joe vehicle and my care-o-meter dropped to zero.
In other news, the recent update actually references the Max/Miriya limited edition Gencon figures. It'll be interesting to see how right those were that said "only a few people were bothered by it" now that everyone (who bothers to read updates) has gotten the word.
Honestly, the issue is resolved for me, but it's still a /popcorn moment all the same.
In actually important news, there's a wee minor detail that they glossed over when they said that "any tier could be used as an add on"; you need to pay the S&H on that tier as well. So Showdowns and Recklesses are still great for international backers looking to save a little, it means that going above 4 boxes in an order just got $30-50 more expensive, which is a shame.
My crew will likely just eat the extra $50, as we're up to 6 boxes between the three of us and are pondering going up to 8.
But still, that stings a little.
Better that they warned us with 5 weeks left, rather than near the end, but all the same, this kind of info should probably have been given at the start of the campaign.
we're up to 6 boxes between the three of us and are pondering going up to 8.
Wat.
That's redonkulous.
Admirable, but redonkulous.
I applaud you, good sir.
Hah, thanks, it's something we've waffled on for a while.
One guy is "all in", grabbed a Showdown (2 boxes) at the start and wanted a bunch of add ons that are found in the Battle Cry, so for basically the same price we just upped him to 3 boxes and called it good. Another member of my group is in for a box, and it looks like I'll upgrade him to 2 as a Christmas present. I was originally in for 1, jumped up to 2, and if we're already at 7, might as well just go to 8 and sell off most of the final box to recoup some costs.
I figure that even at a massive discount (1/2 - 2/3 MSRP, depending on supply and demand) I should be able to make back at least the cost of the final BC plus a little, assuming the game doesn't completely and utterly tank in the area (prefer to sell locally if possible, but some of the rarer stuff might end up on ebay to attract a wider audience). It's a gamble, and probably not the wisest thing I've contemplated lately, but there's the small possibility to even put a dent in the cost of my pair.
Cyporiean wrote: Got my pledge level adjusted, sticking with just Battlecry + the SDF.
The Objective markers are regular release, right?
Did not see the SDF-1 till now. I may have to add the Macross to my kickstarter pledge. I wonder how big it will be. I know it won't be to scale with the other miniatures, which makes me sad.
I believe they said the SDF-1 would be about 3" tall.
Waaaaay out of scale, but you could say it was in scale in the distance and put it on a shelf in the background. That would be kind of fun (I have no idea how far away it would need to be for this to be true, maybe across a basement?).
And no, as far as I'm aware, the resin objective markers are KS/Con only.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So, it appears they've changed the description of the Battle Cry box;
Spoiler:
Battle Cry
Add a Battle Cry pledge to your base pledge. Includes:
a 90+ Page, Full Color Rulebook
40+ Game Cards
12 UEDF Dice, 12 Zentraedi Dice
1 UEDF Decal Sheet, 1 Zentraedi Decal Sheet
10 UEDF Command Tokens, 10 Zentraedi Command Tokens
1 Artillery Template
1 Special Edition Art Print
9 Valkyries in all three modes
2 Destroid Tomahawk, 2 Destroid Defender 1 Command Destroid Upgrade Kit
2 Destroid Spartan, 2 Destroid Phalanx with Experimental Upgrade Kits 1 Rick Hunter Valkyrie in all three modes
1 Roy Fokker Valkyrie in all three modes
2 Super Valkyrie in all three modes
2 SF-3A Lancer II Space Fighter
2 QF-3000 Ghost Fighter
24 Regult Battlepods
4 Artillery Battlepods with Experimental Upgrade Kits 2 Quel-Regult Recon Battlepods
2 Glaug Officer Battlepods
2 Quel-Gulnau Recovery Pods
1 Khyron Glaug Officer Battlepod
1 Miriya Queadluun-Rau
3 Gnerl Fighters
3 Nousjadeul-Ger Male Power Armor with Experimental Upgrades
3 Queadluun-Rau Female Power Armor with Experimental Upgrades
I've bolded what I feel to be the pertinent changes; it looks like we're getting the "experimental bits" included for all 4 figures that were going to have them.
The slightly less good news is that they appear to have changed their minds on the "making it so you can build any combination of Defenders/Tomahawks you like" from the base destroid set. I guess I talked about magnetizing to let me choose to use whatever combo I wanted that day a few too many times. >.>
I was never really all that enthusiastic about the experimental stuff, but it makes a lot more sense on the production side, it opens up some options for gameplay (and magnetizing >.> ), so overall I'm mostly indifferent but see some possible up sides, we just don't have enough information to really know.
I am waiting on a reply but as an international backer I want to be absolutely sure about these extra shipping costs - I upped to SD from BC but now I got a little extra cash was considering another BC on top of that. They do appear to have contradicted themselves.
Back in Update 9 in the comments someone specifically asked about the charge for multiple pledge levels. The clear unequivocal reply from "creator" Palladium books was the charge would levied at the cost of the highest pledge and not for each level pledged
Minor quibbles I suppose but still eagerly awaiting this one, it has been a long time coming.
As I was going in on the Rick Hunter level, but also wanted the other character models, I asked about adding shipping charges to each. I was told that no, you paid shipping on what you originally pledged for, and add-ons were included in that cost.
So I jumped on all the characters, as I am only going in for the models. I had already filled out the pledge manager, actually adding in the VEF-1 and YF-4 boxes, and was not charged any more for postage. So if they want any more money now, they can go whistle.
I asked about the postage before I went in as far as I did, and got the reply "You won't have to pay more postage", the pledge manager didn't charge me more postage, so they've had enough chances.
What has is that there is confusion that additional "pledge" levels " eg Battlecry and Sowdown are on the pledge manager as "add ons". Then appear to show that a charge will be levied for International postage if you select one.
So if you take 2xBC on the manager you get charged $30 on each, but showdown which is the same is only $50. I am hoping it is just the backerkit tool that is causing this
My understandng was that you paid a tariff based on the single highest level "pledge" you took.
It'd be easy enough to fix though; create another pledge level and add on level for $390 that has 3 boxes and $50 S&H.
As it stands I would probably go with 7, but because of the extra costs, I'm stuck either pondering 6 (a little beneath what my crew of 3 wants) or 8 (basically left with an entire box to sell off, assuming there's a market for such things. Even if there is, that's a bunch of models to move to recoup costs).
I'm thinking they finally worked out how many boxes/add ons they could fit in a large USPS Flat Rate Box and realized "Oh god, some jerkhole in Australia ordered like eight Recklesses, we'd spend a couple hundred just shipping her order over there!"
Oh well, updated from two Battle Cry to Showdown (hopefully if email was received).
Will spend an extra $20 (from $30 to $50 shipping).
This still feels like one of those ebay shipping cash grabs no matter how justified it is. They are only human but figuring this out days from locking in is nasty for both parties.
I don't know if its the average paintjobs or the always 100% best EVaR1! proclamation typical of palladium press releases, but I'm a bit unimpressed with the mecha in the pic from the latest update. The updated Force Org coming this weekend (hopefully) is good news though.
The paint jobs do not seem to be much more than flat painting, no discernible highlighting or shadowing and the camera angle is all wrong. It looks down at the minis on an angle so if there is details it is difficult to make out.
I am not the world's greatest painter but if you are demoing your new game, I would think you might have taken that extra step.
Still fingers crossed when we find out for real at hthe end of the year.
TBH, those models are going to get trashed by the end of the show.. there is not much incentive to really make them be *that* great. They will most likely have a display case of models that won't be destroyed by the masses.
Cyporiean wrote: TBH, those models are going to get trashed by the end of the show.. there is not much incentive to really make them be *that* great. They will most likely have a display case of models that won't be destroyed by the masses.
I don't think anyone is expecting the demo models that will be handled by the unwashed masses to be *great* but I'm suprised as how muddy the above really are as I'd rate them at the low end of tabletop. I guess it really shows how accurate palladium press releases that praise everything to the heavens are.
Cyporiean wrote: TBH, those models are going to get trashed by the end of the show.. there is not much incentive to really make them be *that* great. They will most likely have a display case of models that won't be destroyed by the masses.
You'd think then that they might have used a photo of the ones from the display case for promotional purposes, instead of the public demo ones.
Cyporiean wrote: TBH, those models are going to get trashed by the end of the show.. there is not much incentive to really make them be *that* great. They will most likely have a display case of models that won't be destroyed by the masses.
You'd think then that they might have used a photo of the ones from the display case for promotional purposes, instead of the public demo ones.
For those who haven't checked their email/updates lately, the latest one indicates that we may get a set up updated Force Organization charts today (well "this weekend" but seeing as saturday is over, I guess the hope is now on Sunday).
Forar wrote: For those who haven't checked their email/updates lately, the latest one indicates that we may get a set up updated Force Organization charts today (well "this weekend" but seeing as saturday is over, I guess the hope is now on Sunday).
As this is Monday, I'm not sure we'll see it anytime soon.
Especially with every game company preparing for trips to Gen con.
Well, they did say "hopefully" for this past weekend. It's possible they just didn't get the finishing touches on and we'll see it today or sometime this week in general.
"Small company" as PB and ND might both be, I'm assuming they're not sending every last person to Gencon? Surely someone will be in the office, manning the phones and working on odds and ends.
But I certainly concede that we might not get much more out of them until after the weekend.
Oops, nope, they'll all be sick with con crud then.
Maybe the week after?
Nops, probably catching up on the backlog of work from the weeks leading up to Gencon that got put aside.
Look, basically, I remain hopeful we'll see the updated Force Org charts sometime before the Sun goes nova.
)
. Hope they offer the figure to you backers. It would make... too much sense.
