I know that no one can say for sure, but this revamp looks a lot more comprehensive than just re-releasing the WD codex, so I s it possible that they're planning on adding in new models and units at a later date?

They have done it with the old SM digital codex, which had the flyers added, and it might explain the lack of a hard copy version, which doesn't make sense to me when they've spent time and effort to create the interactive iPad version.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

 Troike wrote:

Wwbushidow wrote:
They didn't give this any press at all. It was not on their site in any way. Thursday they were featuring Dark Elves, and Friday they featured Forge World's Games Day table terrain. (Very nice landing area!! Where can I find that terrain?)

Then Saturday "Hey look! We proudly support Adepta Soroitas!" (Not too much though since we still only have the old metal minis)

How is dedicating the front page of their site to the Sisters not giving them press? That will have given them lots of exposure. They just wanted to sync it with the preorder coming out

Also, their Digital Editions Facebook page has been very active in promoting the Sisters. Multiple teasers and previews, and interactions with the fans. Just today, they asked people to post pictures of their SoB- sorry, AS armies.

Yeah, it's almost as if the Digital Editions wing of GW had never heard of their marketing strategy...

How can GW have a marketing "strategy" when they have no Marketing Department?

"Well, apart from being in White Dwarf a couple of weeks ago, and then revealing cover artwork and page previews. Compared to most GW releases, its been an info avalanche!" Well alphaecho, a small paragraph blurb in their magazine is not much. Facebook was something, but it was at a very minimum cost to them.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
"How is dedicating the front page of their site to the Sisters not giving them press? That will have given them lots of exposure. They just wanted to sync it with the preorder coming out

Also, their Digital Editions Facebook page has been very active in promoting the Sisters. Multiple teasers and previews, and interactions with the fans. Just today, they asked people to post pictures of their SoB- sorry, AS armies."

That is true Trolke, but Facebook exposure is at a minimum cost. Usually they do big releases at the beginning of the month, and they usually mention it in their posts or have video teasers on their site. Feels to me like this is an after thought. The only thing that feels slightly good is that they are actually coming out with a codex. Let's hope it is a good one!

Wwbushidow wrote:
"Well, apart from being in White Dwarf a couple of weeks ago, and then revealing cover artwork and page previews. Compared to most GW releases, its been an info avalanche!" Well alphaecho, a small paragraph blurb in their magazine is not much. Facebook was something, but it was at a very minimum cost to them.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
"How is dedicating the front page of their site to the Sisters not giving them press? That will have given them lots of exposure. They just wanted to sync it with the preorder coming out

Also, their Digital Editions Facebook page has been very active in promoting the Sisters. Multiple teasers and previews, and interactions with the fans. Just today, they asked people to post pictures of their SoB- sorry, AS armies."

That is true Trolke, but Facebook exposure is at a minimum cost. Usually they do big releases at the beginning of the month, and they usually mention it in their posts or have video teasers on their site. Feels to me like this is an after thought. The only thing that feels slightly good is that they are actually coming out with a codex. Let's hope it is a good one!

Your original statement: "They didn't give this any press at all." That is why a couple of us pointed out that they had. Then you move the goalposts and talk about how its been done at minimum cost. GW have actually used social networking to discuss a product, seemingly in defiance of their usual "strategy".

Wwbushidow wrote:
That is true Trolke, but Facebook exposure is at a minimum cost.

So? Cost is irrelevant, the success in promoting the release is what matters. Just look at their likes. Before the SoB codex was announced, it took them months to get to a thousand likes, if I recall correctly. After the SoB codex was announced? That page now has over 3000 likes. It's been very successful in getting the word out, as well as getting people talking about the Sisters.

Wwbushidow wrote:
Usually they do big releases at the beginning of the month, and they usually mention it in their posts or have video teasers on their site. Feels to me like this is an after thought.

Mentions in posts and extremely vague teaser videos are fairly minor in and of themselves, anyway. In fact, I'd argue that what we've been getting with the Facebook page is far superior to stuff like that. Substantial previews of things like unit stats and artwork, and interaction with the fans. I'll take that over a vague yet obvious video teasing the upcoming army, personally.

And now that they are "here", they've gotten their due amount of attention, I'd say. One-click collections, being featured on the main page and even a limited edition bauble to tempt people further. You have to admit, that's a lot more than the Sisters have gotten from GW in a long time.

Of course, none of this is as good as an actual model update, the one thing we need the most, but those'll come out sooner or later.

Wwbushidow wrote:
Let's hope it is a good one!

I think what we've seen so far has been promising enough. Lots of nice artwork, some new fluff, a geniunely good tweak to our troops unit, and so on. Though the Canoness still isn't as good as I think she should be, we could well get improvements to Celestians, which the Canoness would sync very well with.


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So, anybody else ever notice that there are what seem to be red Klansmen standing at the back of the Blanche poster?

Red klansmen are redemptionists

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Aye I said last year, but with my muddled brain it could have been a couple, when did Dark Eldar come out, might have been closer to then, was considering a Sisters match up against the cult who go after their shrine worlds.

Dark Eldar came out in November 2010 followed by Grey Knights in April 2011, the DE were preceded by Blood Angels.
I have seen rumours that say Space Wolves are mid next year so that would fit Zion's theory.

There was a post on the BL Digital Editions page that said they had only got 888* likes two days before the AS codex was announced. They said they wanted 100 more likes before they would leak any more info. They got the likes and then some.

* From my recollection.

Sorry Alphaecho. Poor word choice on my part. In the past they've featured Sisters in White Dwarf, so a small blurb feels less than supportive to me. I guess we'll see how much mention Sisters get in future issues, then we will know for sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cost is important, Trollke. If they put money into it, that means they are serious and they will support it. I'm feeling a bit of a W.C. Fields vibe, "Here you go kid, now go away you're bothering me." I agree with you about the model update, and usually they put out new kits around the first of the month, along with a matching codex.

I also agree with you about the Cannoness. I've never used and never saw a reason to use her, under current rules.

Wwbushidow wrote:
Sorry Alphaecho. Poor word choice on my part. In the past they've featured Sisters in White Dwarf, so a small blurb feels less than supportive to me. I guess we'll see how much mention Sisters get in future issues, then we will know for sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cost is important, Trollke. If they put money into it, that means they are serious and they will support it. I'm feeling a bit of a W.C. Fields vibe, "Here you go kid, now go away you're bothering me." I agree with you about the model update, and usually they put out new kits around the first of the month, along with a matching codex.

I also agree with you about the Cannoness. I've never used and never saw a reason to use her, under current rules.

In the past Sisters were getting a full release or where used to show of the Necron release (Sanctuary 101, where a battle report became canon).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Wwbushido, there are more costs in an action that a business has to take than strictly fiscal costs. Opportunity costs for instance, such as the costs of have Cruddace work on updating things over workign on a different project, or having the Digital Editions team put these codexes together instead of say, porting over another 5th Edition book like Dark Eldar.

These may have fiscal repercussions but they can't be easily quantified.

 pretre wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:
I'd like to price up my sisters but they stopped making and dropped from the codex about 50% of my collection :(

unless your army is 50% frater is and old rhinos, this is unlikely...

I've a ton of arbites, milita, rabble, inquisition and themed storm troopers. The inquisition and storm troopers I can trust obviously but the rest needs house rules.

Are militia definitely out of this book?

Shame I have 20+

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Are militia definitely out of this book?

Shame I have 20+

We have heard nothing about them so far. I've got 60-80 redemptionists who will have to stay as guard allies for a while.

If we get Frateris Milita/Zealots/Remptionist/Crowd of Guys named Steve I'll gladly get some Empire Flagellants to convert up!

I'd like to see them but have seen no indication that there will be.................

 Mr Morden wrote:
I'd like to see them but have seen no indication that there will be.................

And there is no indication that there won't be. GW has that kind of stuff well under wraps.

A Landraider Redeemer would be nice for the Sisters.
If they are the Emperor's chosen, then they should have the best equipment.
Celestians with special bolter ammo would make them worth taking.
Use of Drop Pods would be nice too.

Wwbushidow wrote:If they are the Emperor's chosen, then they should have the best equipment.

They do - it clearly says that in the fluff section.

I suppose it's more a case of the Sisters not needing everyhing the Marines have as they don't work, deploy, and fight in exactly the same way.
Or, in the case of the Land Raider, there is still the Emperor's personal decree restricting them to the Astartes ... though obviously some Inquisitors don't care, so it would be easy for the High Lords, who speak for the Emperor, to "amend" that decree, if GW ever wanted to give LR to the Sisters.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
I'd like to see them but have seen no indication that there will be.................

And there is no indication that there won't be. GW has that kind of stuff well under wraps.

They'd make sense, too. They fit with the AS fluff, they used to be in the old codexes, and they fill a currently unfilled niche in the army.

Wwbushidow wrote:
Cost is important, Trollke. If they put money into it, that means they are serious and they will support it. I'm feeling a bit of a W.C. Fields vibe,"Here you go kid, now go away you're bothering me."

And until the plastics are ready, there isn't much else they can do, really. All they can do now is make a stopgap codex, promote the models on the store and generally promote the update. The usual amount of marketing isn't all that feasible, since there's no new models to push (but as I said, I think the marketing we did get was superior in its own right). We'll have our big day when the models are ready, but for now, what we got was certainly pretty good. More than many expected.

Wwbushidow wrote:
I also agree with you about the Cannoness. I've never used and never saw a reason to use her, under current rules.

Well, some of us are just a bit too into the fluff for our own good.

And in this army of all armies, it's a heavy price to pay. But as I said, I'm hopeful that the Celestians will give the Canoness some more use.

Yeah, I'm hoping the Canoness will be useful and fun again. She wasn't as good once the WD dropped. That's been a long standing gripe about the WD of mine (that and us losing so much wargear. What happened? We forget to close the door on a ship and lost it all into space?).

It would be nice if the Penitent Engine was a MC and not a walker but I do not see that happening. I mean I know it would not make sense but this is 40k we're talking about here. I love the idea behind the models and truly do love the models themselves but I have yet to see them fielded. And while I do love the SOB I just can not pay those prices.

 ShatteredBlade wrote:
It would be nice if the Penitent Engine was a MC and not a walker but I do not see that happening. I mean I know it would not make sense but this is 40k we're talking about here. I love the idea behind the models and truly do love the models themselves but I have yet to see them fielded. And while I do love the SOB I just can not pay those prices.

I'm optimistic because of the fact that every open-topped MC walker has a Toughness value now I believe. The only walkers not based on Toughness are Sentinel, Dreadnought and Hellbrute/ Chaos Dreadnought/Defiler (I may be missing some.) All of these walkers however, are closed top walkers with an enclosed compartment. I believe the pentient to be the only open topped walker with a AV atm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Yeah, I'm hoping the Canoness will be useful and fun again. She wasn't as good once the WD dropped. That's been a long standing gripe about the WD of mine (that and us losing so much wargear. What happened? We forget to close the door on a ship and lost it all into space?).

The biggest problem the Cannoness had was she was stripped of all her decent wargear (2+ save from Cloak of St Asperia, Jump Pack, Litanies of Faith). then count that she's not given a stock invul and the only decent CC weapon she can take is an Eviserator (which she won't live long enough to swing.)

In this new codex, it sounds like Cloak of St Asperia is back (+2 armor save), along with Mantle of Ophelia (previously immune to 1 instant death hit and will probably be Eternal warrior or something similar.), and Litanies of Faith, which previously gave a free faith point, without needing to take a test (which I assume will most likely be the same.)

These are coming back, along with some newer wargear I'm assuming, along with specific warlord traits (which im almost sure of that Celestine's will be fearless.) Cannoness will be able to choose from the codex or rule book warlord traits, I believe. She will now be useful with the ability to be cheap and MOST IMPORTANTLY BE ABLE TO FINALLY RIDE IN A RHINO WITH A SQUAD OF 9 SISTERS. AMAZING.

This codex will most likely not need Celestine as an auto include like in the White Dwarf. I also expect her point cost to raise while her stats will stay nearly the same (I'm hoping for a str 5 or better AP 3 weapon from her Ardent Blade like she used to have though, instead of wounding on a 4+). She's the ultimate tarpit, but most likely can't win a challenge against 1 terminator Sgt. This is due to needing a 4+ to wound, and her weapon is AP 3, meaning that only 50% of the time she will wound her target. Currently she has 6 attacks on the charge, which with WS 7 gives you about 4 hits on average against WS4 and with a 4+ to wound, you have a 50/50 shot to wound. This will most likely result in 2 wound and. 2 wounds on a terminator sgt with a 2+ will most likely pass. Meanwhile he swings with a thunderhammer, gets 2 attacks, hits on 4's wounds on 2's, on avg around .75 wounds, which is near 1 wound. Celestine has a 50/50 shot to fail, getting instant deathed, and falling over, needing to get back up next round, which is also a 50/50 chance.

Too much 50/50 on Celestine, I'd like to see more consistency and to see her points go up.

 pretre wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Keep in mind that Raging Heroes has plans for a full sisters army.

As well as issues with cost, delivery time and not quite fitting the aesthetics of the setting. Not saying that I don't look forward to seeing what they have to put out, but their current kickstarter is not inspiring. The fact that their minis tend to be monopose as well doesn't help.

And a lot of the style of places like Raging Heroes is far too sexualized, even compared to Sisters, and I don't want that in my miniatures.

 Melissia wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Keep in mind that Raging Heroes has plans for a full sisters army.

As well as issues with cost, delivery time and not quite fitting the aesthetics of the setting. Not saying that I don't look forward to seeing what they have to put out, but their current kickstarter is not inspiring. The fact that their minis tend to be monopose as well doesn't help.

And a lot of the style of places like Raging Heroes is far too sexualized, even compared to Sisters, and I don't want that in my miniatures.

I kind of agree. Raging Heroes has this definite "pin up" vibe with almost every model trying to stick her chest straight out, and a number of them having parts of the boobs hanging out for no reason that could even work in the setting. It just doesn't mix well with the 40k look.

Plus the proportions of the miniatures is very different. I'm pretty sure the Raging Hero ones look like they're 3/4 leg.

Yeah... call me picky but I want my Adepta Sororitas to be "professional soldiers of god" (as they are in 40k), not "supermodels playing (and badly, at that) at being soldiers during a photo shoot" (as in Raging Heroes).

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah... call me picky but I want my Adepta Sororitas to be "professional soldiers of god" (as they are in 40k), not "supermodels playing (and badly, at that) at being soldiers during a photo shoot" (as in Raging Heroes).

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that pin-ups sell better than "professional soldiers of god".

xruslanx wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah... call me picky but I want my Adepta Sororitas to be "professional soldiers of god" (as they are in 40k), not "supermodels playing (and badly, at that) at being soldiers during a photo shoot" (as in Raging Heroes).

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that pin-ups sell better than "professional soldiers of god".

What evidence do you have of this?

Because I haven't SEEN any miniature sets that offer women as professional soldiers without making them pin-ups.

It's an untapped market. Just because no sculptor has tried yet doesn't mean that it isn't possible.

xruslanx wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah... call me picky but I want my Adepta Sororitas to be "professional soldiers of god" (as they are in 40k), not "supermodels playing (and badly, at that) at being soldiers during a photo shoot" (as in Raging Heroes).

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that pin-ups sell better than "professional soldiers of god".

Well, I guess anecdotes don't tell us much about it, but I'd buy "professional soldiers of god" before I'd buy "supermodels playing at soldiers during a photoshoot". It'd be nice if we could have both, then everyone's happy. Sort of

Also relevant: in 40k artwork, at least, the Sisters are usually gorgeous. But their outfits are vaguely convincing, if you excuse the boob-shaped breastplates, etc. Not combat lingerie, anyway.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 S'jet wrote:
Not inspiring? Have you seen their recent update? =p

Those. Look. Amazing.
See, GW? That's how you do it. Now stop crying about not being able to make plastic sisters and just friggin' do it!

See, I dont actually like their models, they remind me of those KDM ones that I appreciated were well sculpted and made, but I've no interest in.. leggy, futuristic space prostitutes.

I think GW have the right idea with the sisters, they are plain, and thats how they should look in my book, its in line with the futuristic but endlessly grim setting of the game. All those nubile, leggy birds with their tongues sticking out and their limbs pointing at funny angles reminds me of Miley Cyrus twerking on the TV, im not keen on them at all.

Im hoping they stick with how they have been operating thus far personally. Stuff like this..





Is much more suited, not ugly, but plain. You can see GW are trying not to take them down the neon-spacewhore route, because that new art is probably the prettiest I have seen them, and they are still pretty plain. The sisters repentia look in a lot of pain and the penitent engine is genuinely grim, I think its far more suited to 40k than leggy naked birds with big jugs.

Can someone tell me which digital version will work with a Nook Color. I'm too poor to be able to update to anything else at the moment.

Thanks
burt

burtquaid wrote:
Can someone tell me which digital version will work with a Nook Color. I'm too poor to be able to update to anything else at the moment.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/Support-NOOK-Color/379003188/

4. What file formats can NOOK Color support?
NOOK Color will support the following file formats:

-eBooks: ePub (B&N DRM, Adobe DRM, and non-DRM files), PDF, CBZ
-Other documents: PDF, TXT
-Microsoft Office documents: DOC, DOCM, DOCX, XLS, XLSM, XLX, PPT, PPS, PPTM, PPSX, PPSM, PPTX
-Music: MP3, MP4, WAV, AAC, MIDI, OGG, 3GP, AMR
-Videos: MP4, 3GP, 3G2, M4V, MPEG-4 Simple Profile up to 854x480, H.263 up to 352x288, and H.264 Baseline/main/high profiles up to 854x480 (please see additional information in the Video Files question)
-Pictures/Images: JPEG (JPG), GIF, PNG, BMP

.ePub

Some (slightly depressing) thoughts: When looking at the price of the metal squads and hoping for a new release in plastic at a lower price, note that in the most recent Dark Elf release 10 Witches went from $66 in finecast to $60 in plastic (which some clung to as cheaper, others... said was stupid). Just throwing out there that GW seems recently willing to price niche models at absurd prices when going to plastic kits.

On the other hand, it's worth remembering that when Dark Eldar were re-released their plastic kits were very aggressively priced. So perhaps that can be seen as a bellweather that when GW wants to relaunch a line they are aware they can't shoot the moon on price.

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Just throwing out there that GW seems recently willing to price niche models at absurd prices when going to plastic kits.

This is great news!
Even though some of us already knew

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Just throwing out there that GW seems recently willing to price niche models at absurd prices when going to plastic kits.

This is great news!
Even though some of us already knew

To be fair, they have always done this. This isn't a recent development. There's always been some sort of weird equation at GW HQ where niche models cost more.

Of course, they have also reduced prices for some models to drive sales as well.

 pretre wrote:
Of course, they have also reduced prices for some models to drive sales as well.

Yeah, by 20% ... while reducing the content by 50%

 Kroothawk wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Of course, they have also reduced prices for some models to drive sales as well.

Yeah, by 20% ... and by reducing the content by 50%

I was talking about the DE launch. One could probably also cite the GK launch and a lot of the metal to plastic conversion over the last couple years.

But keep beating that same drum.

 Melissia wrote:

xruslanx wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah... call me picky but I want my Adepta Sororitas to be "professional soldiers of god" (as they are in 40k), not "supermodels playing (and badly, at that) at being soldiers during a photo shoot" (as in Raging Heroes).

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that pin-ups sell better than "professional soldiers of god".

What evidence do you have of this?

Because I haven't SEEN any miniature sets that offer women as professional soldiers without making them pin-ups.

It's an untapped market. Just because no sculptor has tried yet doesn't mean that it isn't possible.

And you're right, they're not out yet, but DFG will have an all women unit of professional soldiers. Although I think it'll take a bit of modelling to get them to the "of god" bit.

I priced my collection recently, and despite the complaints about how expensive Sisters are, the majority of the army is made of models that only charge a little over $5 a model, that's only $1 more/model than the current Space Marine box.

What really kills the army is the price of everything else over that (save for the Immolator, that kit is awesome and is the same cost as the Rhino).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Of course, they have also reduced prices for some models to drive sales as well.

Yeah, by 20% ... and by reducing the content by 50%

I was talking about the DE launch. One could probably also cite the GK launch and a lot of the metal to plastic conversion over the last couple years.

But keep beating that same drum.

I'm of the mind that Kroot is just trying to troll the Sisters players at this point. It's why he keeps insisting the release is just the WD codex again and again despite evidence of the contrary.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'm of the mind that Kroot is just trying to troll the Sisters players at this point. It's why he keeps insisting the release is just the WD codex again and again despite evidence of the contrary.

It is starting to look like that, which is disappointing.

I guess GW saw the 5-model Wych finecast box as an acceptable product, so dropping the price much on the plastic rebox would've been a massive concession from them. They did drop it a teeny bit though, which is cool.

I'm not sure how well it compares to the dark eldar relaunch - as I recall they'd taken the old models off the shelf long, long before the relaunch, so it was more like starting over.

What does it mean for Sisters? I imagine very little since that plastic relaunch has got to be years off.

The only thing that is definate is that:

Their has been some minor point adjustments to the cannoness - Rosarius is cheaper.
The basic Sisters squad can now be just 5 which opens up more possibilities like Immolator spam
Couple of Battle Squad options are cheaper
There are somne Relics - which may or may not be good.

If nothing else changes - we are in a lsightly better position - plus there is at least a legit Codex.
We could loose out if they slam up St Celestine's pts but do little else.

Looking on the positive - we are in a far better place than 6 months ago..........where the whole talk was squattted or not squatted.

 Mr Morden wrote:
The only thing that is definate is that:

Their has been some minor point adjustments to the cannoness - Rosarius is cheaper.
The basic Sisters squad can now be just 5 which opens up more possibilities like Immolator spam
Couple of Battle Squad options are cheaper
There are somne Relics - which may or may not be good.

If nothing else changes - we are in a lsightly better position - plus there is at least a legit Codex.
We could loose out if they slam up St Celestine's pts but do little else.

Looking on the positive - we are in a far better place than 6 months ago..........where the whole talk was squattted or not squatted.

I largely agree with this. I think points increases are unlikely. As long as nothing gets more expensive, we are okay and better off. We'll see on Friday though.

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'm of the mind that Kroot is just trying to troll the Sisters players at this point. It's why he keeps insisting the release is just the WD codex again and again despite evidence of the contrary.

It is starting to look like that, which is disappointing.

Yeah, me and the author:

evildrcheese wrote:Spoke to Cruddence @ Games Day re SoB asking if the digital version is his WD dex. He confirmed it is, hes been involved in the writing of the warlord traits was the impression I got. He also told me they've looked at the scaling issue for faith points and that there's been 'minor' point tweaks.

BTW I own a 3rd edition Witchhunter army. Still waiting for a full Codex release, you know, with new miniatures, and not just taking half the units away.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Yeah, me and the author:

Except, as has been pointed out to you about 10 times in this thread alone:
- New Artwork
- New Fluff
- Changes in Points
- Warlord Traits
- Apoc Formations
- New Relics
- etc, so on.

If it was a PDF scan of the WD dex with Warlord Traits, I'd agree with you. It is not.

BTW I own a 3rd edition Witchhunter army. Still waiting for a full Codex release, you know, with new miniatures, and not just taking half the units away.

Witchhunters is dead. Sorry. If you want to play them, you can probably make it work with some combination of SOB, GK and IG. You don't need to barrage us with 'OMG WD DEX' every five minutes because you're not happy your codex from 10 years ago is no longer valid. There's probably a support group you can join with the LatD players though.

 pretre wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Yeah, me and the author:

Except, as has been pointed out to you about 10 times in this thread alone:
- New Artwork
- New Fluff
- Changes in Points
- Warlord Traits
- Apoc Formations
- New Relics
- etc, so on.

You forgot the one-click bundles!
And that you now have to bring an expensive ipad or notebook to the beer and pretzel games, where kids drop everything breakable and adults spill beer on the rest.
I believe the author and you the GW advertising text, call me stubborn.

And even if Apocalypse formations belonged into a Codex (they don't), should I celebrate GW for omitting Sororitas from all official Apocalypse books?

If GW decides, it is worth printing in German, I will have a look at it. If GW thinks it is not worth it, ....

So I think I found out the weakness of a Digital Codex: Very little rumors a week out Has anyone heard anything?

 Melissia wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Keep in mind that Raging Heroes has plans for a full sisters army.

As well as issues with cost, delivery time and not quite fitting the aesthetics of the setting. Not saying that I don't look forward to seeing what they have to put out, but their current kickstarter is not inspiring. The fact that their minis tend to be monopose as well doesn't help.

And a lot of the style of places like Raging Heroes is far too sexualized, even compared to Sisters, and I don't want that in my miniatures.

While I normally agree with you on most of this stuff Mel, I /like/ the sisters a lot. At least the Kurg Shock Troopers, the right mix of pin up and I'm going to shove this boot so far down your throat you'll be wearing it" the boob plate's there, but I dunno if we're ever gonna escape that trope as a unified species. From RH's description of the TGG girls being designed to be ball and socket, I am hoping we'll see some more variance in posing, but then as sisters of battle players with maybe 10 total poses in the entire range (not counting different weapons) can we really complain too loudly about mono pose?

I do want to see a professional grade girl power army. I have for a very long time now. I doubt it's gonna happen any time soon though.

 Kroothawk wrote:
And that you now have to bring an expensive ipad or notebook to the beer and pretzel games, where kids drop everything breakable and adults spill beer on the rest.

If only there were a technology that allowed us to get electronic documents into a print format... And if only the licensing text allowed us to do so for personal use...

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I priced my collection recently, and despite the complaints about how expensive Sisters are, the majority of the army is made of models that only charge a little over $5 a model, that's only $1 more/model than the current Space Marine box.

What really kills the army is the price of everything else over that (save for the Immolator, that kit is awesome and is the same cost as the Rhino)..

Yet the majority of folks are able to buy Space Marines at a discount, which you cannot with sisters, unless buying used. The 10 Sisters Squad with the same load out as the Space Marine tactical box (1 Sergeant, 1 Heavy, 1 Special, 7 Bolters) is more than double the cost =/ ($34 or even cheaper, vs $74 +tax/shipping for the sisters squad).

You can like them all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that I have zero reason to buy any of the pin-up models produced in the RagingHeroes line for either my Sisters of Battle or my Imperial Guard army.

 Kroothawk wrote:
You forgot the one-click bundles!

Sadly, I think the only good thing to come out of those is that it revealed to non-players just how fething the army actually is. It's really ridiculous.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I priced my collection recently, and despite the complaints about how expensive Sisters are, the majority of the army is made of models that only charge a little over $5 a model, that's only $1 more/model than the current Space Marine box.

You miscalculated then, or you paid less than GW is currently charging.

It costs twice as much to purchase a battle sister squad of 10 as compared to a tactical marines squad of 10. And the tactical squad gets more out of its box than the Sisters do.

That's 7.98 dollars per Sororitas (79.80 per squad) model and 4 dollars per Marine (40 per squad) model-- and that's while getting LESS.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Yeah, me and the author:

Except, as has been pointed out to you about 10 times in this thread alone:
- New Artwork
- New Fluff
- Changes in Points
- Warlord Traits
- Apoc Formations
- New Relics
- etc, so on.

You forgot the one-click bundles!
And that you now have to bring an expensive ipad or notebook to the beer and pretzel games, where kids drop everything breakable and adults spill beer on the rest.
I believe the author and you the GW advertising text, call me stubborn.

And even if Apocalypse formations belonged into a Codex (they don't), should I celebrate GW for omitting Sororitas from all official Apocalypse books?

If GW decides, it is worth printing in German, I will have a look at it. If GW thinks it is not worth it, ....

If you have an ebook reader app you can open the BL version on the computer, and you're even allowed to print a copy for personal excuse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Locrian wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I priced my collection recently, and despite the complaints about how expensive Sisters are, the majority of the army is made of models that only charge a little over $5 a model, that's only $1 more/model than the current Space Marine box.

What really kills the army is the price of everything else over that (save for the Immolator, that kit is awesome and is the same cost as the Rhino)..

Yet the majority of folks are able to buy Space Marines at a discount, which you cannot with sisters, unless buying used. The 10 Sisters Squad with the same load out as the Space Marine tactical box (1 Sergeant, 1 Heavy, 1 Special, 7 Bolters) is more than double the cost =/ ($34 or even cheaper, vs $74 +tax/shipping for the sisters squad).

Discounts from 3rd party sellers don't count unless you want me to bring up how cheap Sisters get on eBay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
You can like them all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that I have zero reason to buy any of the pin-up models produced in the RagingHeroes line for either my Sisters of Battle or my Imperial Guard army.

 Kroothawk wrote:
You forgot the one-click bundles!

Sadly, I think the only good thing to come out of those is that it revealed to non-players just how fething the army actually is. It's really ridiculous.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I priced my collection recently, and despite the complaints about how expensive Sisters are, the majority of the army is made of models that only charge a little over $5 a model, that's only $1 more/model than the current Space Marine box.

You miscalculated then, or you paid less than GW is currently charging.

It costs twice as much to purchase a battle sister squad of 10 as compared to a tactical marines squad of 10. And the tactical squad gets more out of its box than the Sisters do.

That's 7.98 dollars per Sororitas (79.80 per squad) model and 4 dollars per Marine (40 per squad) model-- and that's while getting LESS.

I said that it's a little over $5 for the BASIC Sister. 17.25/3 is 5.75. I also said that the other models are where Sisters are really getting price screwed.

Again, that's misleading, because Marines get more stuff in their sets than Sisters do.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Still waiting for a full Codex release, you know, with new miniatures, and not just taking half the units away.

What, would you prefer they have nothing, until their real update? Before this digital codex, the SoB rules were not obtainable from GW. There was no official way to get their rules. At least now there's a way for people to once again purchase the SoB codex from GW. And we got a lot of extra stuff in there too, which is nice.

 Melissia wrote:
Sadly, I think the only good thing to come out of those is that it revealed to non-players just how fething the army actually is. It's really ridiculous.

It's been odd seeing people complaining about the price of SoB models. I thought it was common knowledge that they're expensive to collect, but apparently not.

 Troike wrote:

It's been odd seeing people complaining about the price of SoB models. I thought it was common knowledge that they're expensive to collect, but apparently not.

Shouldn't be odd, even if they knew they complain

 Troike wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Still waiting for a full Codex release, you know, with new miniatures, and not just taking half the units away.

What, would you prefer they have nothing, until their real update?

He's talking about a full Codex: Witchhunters release. Which will never happen now.

 Melissia wrote:
Again, that's misleading, because Marines get more stuff in their sets than Sisters do.

On the flip side it still means a tact Marine with bolter is only a 1.75 cheaper than a bolter Sister.

Does it split off from there? Yes, but the basic Sisters aren't that out of sync with other models which was the point.

Well... 5.75 is 144% of 4. So Sisters are just shy of half again as expensive for the very basic troop models. Basic troops with zero upgrades like special weapons etc. on the sprue.

Prices 44% higher are significantly higher, and seems fairly out of synch to me.

Then again, I haven't bought anything new from GW in probably 3 years, so their other prices might have gotten more insane. But 44% more money for a model which you probably will need more of in an army is pretty salty. I am glad I got my mountain of sisters a little over a decade ago :(

No it doesn't mean that, because you're misusing the statistic in order to prove a false point. The Space Marines are sold as a group and gain a ton of extra stuff, including a gravgun, flamer, meltagun, plasmagun, missile launcher, equipment for their sergeant, and includes back banners, various spare hands, ammo pouches, auspex, and etc etc etc.

The Space Marines are cheaper than you suggest quite simply because they get more stuff with each purchase. You get less stuff and pay more with sisters.

 pretre wrote:

He's talking about a full Codex: Witchhunters release. Which will never happen now.

My point still applies. He seems to be critical of the concept of this digital codex itself. I say it's a vast improvement over our previous situation.

Better a proper digital codex than a codex spread out over two magazine issues.

Agreed - thats why I bought it.

Same here, gonna print it asap so I don't have to rely on my Nook for it.

Troike wrote:Before this digital codex, the SoB rules were not obtainable from GW. There was no official way to get their rules.

They released the WD "Codex". OOP but official. I own it. According to the author, this digital thing is basically a revised edition of said Codex.
Several years ago, Blood Angels also got a WD Codex in 2 WDs. A few months later this became a free pdf-download, that you were allowed to print for personal use. No problem back then, but taboo today, because it doesn't cost money.

pretre wrote:

 Troike wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Still waiting for a full Codex release, you know, with new miniatures, and not just taking half the units away.

What, would you prefer they have nothing, until their real update?

He's talking about a full Codex: Witchhunters release.FALSE

No, I am not.

Actually, I am talking about a full Codex: Ecclesiarchy. Background: The work on a full Codex Sororitas was started shortly after the work for Codex Grey Knights began. Back then, it was rumoured that Grey Knights get all the Inquisition and Sororitas get new ecclesiarchy units like priests, redemptionists plus new stuff. That's why Harry and others expected a full Sororitas Codex when only a WD stop-gap was released. Something must have gone wrong, maybe the production delays with the plastics or designs rejected. The stop-gap served one main purpose, to take away the Inquisition units from Sororitas and give them to Grey Knights only (they didn't want 6th edition Grey Knights to ally with 3rd edition Inquisition). And so that they can pretend in advertising that Sororitas had an update after 2004.

 Kroothawk wrote:
They released the WD "Codex". OOP but official. I own it. According to the author, this digital thing is basically a revised edition of said Codex.
Several years ago, Blood Angels also got a WD Codex in 2 WDs. A few months later this became a free pdf-download, that you were allowed to print for personal use. No problem back then, but taboo today, because it doesn't cost money.

The difference is that the BA WD free-pdf was a scan of the actual pages from WD. The BA free PDF wasn't even revised. This is a wholly updated document with additional content. New content and additional work costs money. I accept that. (Here's a nice reminder. It is even in German for you... )

 Kroothawk wrote:
Actually, I am talking about a full Codex: Ecclesiarchy... snip

Rumored. That's a lot of assumptions based off of rumors. Show me a company source talking about Codex: Ecclesiarchy. As far as I know, GW has only ever talked about SOB, Witchhunters and, now, AS. Sometimes the 'mongers get it wrong.

 Kroothawk wrote:
They released the WD "Codex". OOP but official.

It being OOP was exactly my point. There was no way to obtain their rules from GW.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Several years ago, Blood Angels also got a WD Codex in 2 WDs. A few months later this became a free pdf-download, that you were allowed to print for personal use. No problem back then, but taboo today, because it doesn't cost money.

But they actually put time and effort into updating and adding to this, it isn't a straight reprint like the BA pdf was. Therefore, it costs money.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Something must have gone wrong, maybe the production delays with the plastics or designs rejected.

I think I recall Harry or Hastings, one of those, noting that GW wasn't happy with the designs. Obviously they still couldn't get past those modelling problems, at the time.

 Kroothawk wrote:
The stop-gap served one main purpose, to take away the Inquisition units from Sororitas and give them to Grey Knights only

Good. The Grey Knights can keep them. I and many other SoB fans much prefer our codex to be Inquisition free, just like they began.

 Kroothawk wrote:
And so that they can pretend in advertising that Sororitas had an update after 2004.

The WD codex was an update. Not necessarily the best of updates, but it was an update. Sorry, there's no getting away from it.

 pretre wrote:
Rumored. That's a lot of assumptions based off of rumors. Show me a company source talking about Codex: Ecclesiarchy. As far as I know, GW has only ever talked about SOB, Witchhunters and, now, AS. Sometimes the 'mongers get it wrong.

The world of rumours can be scary and unreadable to some, but it is the world I live in.

Oh, and the BA pdf wasn't updated, because it was released so soon after the physical release. Is this a bad thing? I don't think so.

BTW Space Wolves also had no German Codex for years, so GW released the rules as a free pdf. Japan has no printed Codices at all, only free pdf's in Japanese.

In the end we have to wait for the Digital Codex release to see, if the author is right about it being basically the old WD Codex with minor tweaks or as advertising says a full new Codex.

 Kroothawk wrote:
In the end we have to wait for the Digital Codex release to see, if the author is right about it being basically the old WD Codex with minor tweaks or as advertising says a full new Codex.

I don't think anyone's disputing that it's the old WD codex with some changes to its rules. What's disputed is when you compare it to a simple errata. Not only do we have added content like Apoc Formations, Relics and Alter of War missions, but new fluff and artwork. Far, far more than one would get from a reprint or an errata.

Also I don't think that the advertising ever called it a full new codex, just talked about what's been added to it.

Troike has it. Full new codex? No. More than a WD cut and paste? Definitely.

 pretre wrote:
Troike has it. Full new codex? No. More than a WD cut and paste? Definitely.

Exactly.

It's not much, but it's something, and furthermore something that isn't insubstantial.

 Melissia wrote:

xruslanx wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah... call me picky but I want my Adepta Sororitas to be "professional soldiers of god" (as they are in 40k), not "supermodels playing (and badly, at that) at being soldiers during a photo shoot" (as in Raging Heroes).

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that pin-ups sell better than "professional soldiers of god".

What evidence do you have of this?

Because I haven't SEEN any miniature sets that offer women as professional soldiers without making them pin-ups.

It's an untapped market. Just because no sculptor has tried yet doesn't mean that it isn't possible.

Tits sell just about anything. I don't need "evidence" to prove that a scantily glad woman sells products.

I wonder if the digital codex is a way for GW to start updating the sisters without doing a full release. Perhaps if they've solved the "plastics problem" then maybe they'll do one kit at a time for an indefinite period and thus update the range more slowly. If they truly feel that the sisters are as unpopular as they do, then it would be less risky than fully committing to a release that might flop. Instead, you'll get a new plastic kit every couple months while the front page can continue to show off whatever other 40K/Fantasy army they've re-released that month.
The optimist in me says that a plastic battle sister squad could show up in a few month, the pessimist says that this new codex is all you get.

 greyknight12 wrote:

The optimist in me says that a plastic battle sister squad could show up in a few month, the pessimist says that this new codex is all you get.

The kid in me is suicidal over how miserable the future is!

 greyknight12 wrote:
The optimist in me says that a plastic battle sister squad could show up in a few month, the pessimist says that this new codex is all you get.

I doubt it. Plastic Sisters will probably come all at once, alongside a proper codex release. Usual GW tactic, drop it all at once to blitzkrieg everyone's wallets.

And don't worry, I'm sure that when the Sisters get their real update, GW will give them their due amount of fanfare. Even for this, they've made a lot of noise. Head over to the GW site, notice who's all over the first page? Also, the Digital Editions Facebook page has been very proactive in promoting the SoB.

ClockworkZion wrote:How can GW have a marketing "strategy" when they have no Marketing Department?

Because some other dept is formulating it? Which may turn out more or less good.

Melissia wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Keep in mind that Raging Heroes has plans for a full sisters army.

As well as issues with cost, delivery time and not quite fitting the aesthetics of the setting. Not saying that I don't look forward to seeing what they have to put out, but their current kickstarter is not inspiring. The fact that their minis tend to be monopose as well doesn't help.

And a lot of the style of places like Raging Heroes is far too sexualized, even compared to Sisters, and I don't want that in my miniatures.

And much too healthy looking and full of life for 40K humans.

CoteazRox wrote:
And much too healthy looking and full of life for 40K humans.

If it isn't pallid, bald/grey-haired and with at least one monocle it just isn't 40k!

pretre wrote:I think points increases are unlikely.

10 sisters squads with a veteran are already 5 point more expensive.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

pretre wrote:I think points increases are unlikely.

10 sisters squads with a veteran are already 5 point more expensive.

But if you take a Simulcrum you're 5 points cheaper than you were before!

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

pretre wrote:I think points increases are unlikely.

10 sisters squads with a veteran are already 5 point more expensive.

But if you take a Simulcrum you're 5 points cheaper than you were before!

The point cost justification will be on how the faith system works now and scales. This also depends if the Heavy Flamer will be reduced in points back to 10 pts like it is in the SM codex. If this happens we will be able to purchase a Simulcrum for a squad for free, and maintain the same cost of a squad with heavy flamer, melta gun, vet, combi weapon.

 Kreedos wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

pretre wrote:I think points increases are unlikely.

10 sisters squads with a veteran are already 5 point more expensive.

But if you take a Simulcrum you're 5 points cheaper than you were before!

The point cost justification will be on how the faith system works now and scales. This also depends if the Heavy Flamer will be reduced in points back to 10 pts like it is in the SM codex. If this happens we will be able to purchase a Simulcrum for a squad for free, and maintain the same cost of a squad with heavy flamer, melta gun, vet, combi weapon.

Oh I agree, but I just wanted to point out that it's not -all- more expensive.

At least as far as we know.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

pretre wrote:I think points increases are unlikely.

10 sisters squads with a veteran are already 5 point more expensive.

But the squad as a whole can be cheaper. I think that's a wash, personally.

 Troike wrote:
I doubt it. Plastic Sisters will probably come all at once, alongside a proper codex release. Usual GW tactic, drop it all at once to blitzkrieg everyone's wallets.

Indeed. Even though it will probably take two or more years to actually get around to it, they'll hopefully go all out when they finally do.

xruslanx wrote:
Tits sell just about anything. I don't need "evidence" to prove that a scantily glad woman sells products.

Ah, so you admit you have no evidence to support your assertion that non-pinup models don't sell because they don't shove tits in everyone's face (instead of the real reason, which is quite simply they're not selling because no one is fething making them)... which is just as good as admitting you are wrong.

Oooh, Mel drops the People's elbow from the top ropes!

 Melissia wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
Tits sell just about anything. I don't need "evidence" to prove that a scantily glad woman sells products.

Ah, so you admit you have no evidence to support your assertion that non-pinup models don't sell because they don't shove tits in everyone's face (instead of the real reason, which is quite simply they're not selling because no one is fething making them)... which is just as good as admitting you are wrong.

Not to support xruslanx (who is... oi), but I wouldn't necessarily dismiss the contention that the more commercially viable female models that those that are conventionally pretty.

As an aside, Vic from Victoria Miniatures is indeed attempting what I think most would characterize as "non-pinup models', see here.

With regards to the sexy or non-sexy debate, virtually the only statement of any real weight I have seen on the subject is the statement by Bryan Stiltz from Reaper miniatures;

But we have done some tests. Conversions on the same figure, and released under different part numbers and names have shown that an immodest figure will outsell a more modest version of the same exact figure. A topless version will sell a LOT more, and full nudity will sell even more.

Now, obviously this is the results of one company, and testing a very different market (individual figures rather then product lines), but this is, to the best of my knowledge, the only such testing ever publicly reported.

That's not to say that there is no market out there, or that the preferences that exist for single models (presumably bought for painting/display/RPGs) are applicable to building an army. But there is an opportunity coming in the next year as there are going to be 5 fairly large entries into the market of aesthetically distinct female miniatures; Raging Heroes has 3 different lines of female miniatures coming out ranging from tank tops and bare midriffs to head-to-toe uniforms. In addition we can (hopefully) expect relatively soon Dreamforge Games to release their Black Widow female anti-tank troopers in their Eisenkern line and the entry from Victoria miniatures.

A year from now if those lines reach the market we will have some real, new data in this area, since they represent five fairly good points on the continuum of titillation, from near-pinup to virtually de-sexualized.

If you want to see a example of "TNA sells", look at the female modles that came out at the start of the Warzone Kickstarter to the ones that came out towords the end.

http://warzonegame.com/product/6/angelika-drachen.html
http://warzonegame.com/product/15/valerie-duval.html

It's a product of the male dominated market of wargameing, and a issue I wish more people were aware of. You would be surprised how many people started comeing out of the wood work dureing that kick starter trying to defend blatant pandering to the fans of the pin-up look.

One of the funny things that came out of that was a few people trying to say that the people on DakkaDakka just hate the female body, and that none of us want boobies in our wargames. (Some sort of straw-man argument trying to say we were the ones being sexist...)


Personally I've never met any of these people who buy the pin-up minis in real life. I like to think once people paint them up, they go into shoe boxes that they put under their beds in shame.

 Melissia wrote:
Ah, so you admit you have no evidence to support your assertion that non-pinup models don't sell because they don't shove tits in everyone's face (instead of the real reason, which is quite simply they're not selling because no one is fething making them)... which is just as good as admitting you are wrong.

I guess every single marketing exec is wrong and you are right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lockark wrote:

One of the funny things that came out of that was a few people trying to say that the people on DakkaDakka just hate the female body, and that none of us want boobies in our wargames. (Some sort of straw-man argument trying to say we were the ones being sexist...)

Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

 Lockark wrote:

Personally I've never met any of these people who buy the pin-up minis in real life. I like to think once people paint them up, they go into shoe boxes that they put under their beds in shame.

I use mine in lots of different games and have hundreds - fully on display - even used my Foundry Nymphs as Elf archers back when I used to play WFB. why shouldn't I?

I might be considered shallow but not sure why I have pander or even justify to other people about what I spend my money on and how I use them..................people like different things - thats life .

Alot of people like sexy girl models in their wargames -some don't - either is valid...........

heading back to the Sisters - I think alots going to depend on the pts change (if there is one) to St Celestine and if its alot - what alternatives do we get - we don't appear to be getting a jump pack for the Cannoness - maybe we might get a Palatine with one but I doubt it. Also what happens to the Command Squad and the Celestian Squad. I am hoping to field a Cannoness in my next game just to see what I can do.

We currently have a large improvement in flexibility of our Battle Sister squads and if the Dominon /Serphaim Squads/Exorcists/Immolators stay as is - then we are in a good place.

IMO In an ideal world we would get (assuming its only a somewhat updated WD codex and no new models)

Scaled Faith Powers - otherwise I am happy with them as is.
Shield of Faith - as is
St Celestine - same
Command Squad - not sure what but it needs something - more shiny weapons and larger squad perhaps plus bonuses as Celestian
Celestian Sqaud - +1 WS, +1I, option to take Blessed blades (Relic blades) or similar
Seraphim - as is
Dominon - as is
Exorcist - as is but with Skyfire/Interceptor missiles option / variant
Immolator - as is
Rhino - as is
Repressor - FW stats actually in the Codex rather than just the photo

 Kroothawk wrote:
Japan has no printed Codices at all, only free pdf's in Japanese.

Alas, this hasn't been true for a while. We get proper (hideously overpriced) translations now.

xruslanx wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Ah, so you admit you have no evidence to support your assertion that non-pinup models don't sell because they don't shove tits in everyone's face (instead of the real reason, which is quite simply they're not selling because no one is fething making them)... which is just as good as admitting you are wrong.

I guess every single marketing exec is wrong and you are right.

Marketing executives are not prescient. Disney, Warner Bros. and Universal each lost a hundred million dollars on a big flop this year. And these weren't art pieces, they were products which were only made because it was believed that they would make money. Just because a marketing executive fails to predict something does not make it untrue.

 Lockark wrote:

One of the funny things that came out of that was a few people trying to say that the people on DakkaDakka just hate the female body, and that none of us want boobies in our wargames. (Some sort of straw-man argument trying to say we were the ones being sexist...)

Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

I like T'n'A, but I don't want just T'n'A. Raging Heroes could have covered all the bases, with Jailbirds for people who want something like the Eschers and Kurganovas for people wanting a serious army wearing proper armour, and Iron Empire somewhere in between.

xruslanx wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

One of the funny things that came out of that was a few people trying to say that the people on DakkaDakka just hate the female body, and that none of us want boobies in our wargames. (Some sort of straw-man argument trying to say we were the ones being sexist...)

Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

No, that's not correct, this forum and many other places on the internet are crawling with brats who've only just discovered the vinegar strokes and are very far from being men, these young pups are the likeliest to 'go wild' over tiny tits being bared on tiny metal representations of women. As a man, I'm far more concerned with 'Is it a good sculpt' and 'will I feel like a basement neckbeard virgin if I put these on the table in front of other actual men?', as I have a wife, porn and the girls at the office for T&A.

xruslanx wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lockark wrote:

One of the funny things that came out of that was a few people trying to say that the people on DakkaDakka just hate the female body, and that none of us want boobies in our wargames. (Some sort of straw-man argument trying to say we were the ones being sexist...)

Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

Shoving it in (no pun intended) for the sake of having it in a wargame, especially when it makes no sense whatsoever (as opposed to stuff like Slaanesh), arguably is though. It's the MMORPG chainmail bikini scenario all over again; it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If you can't have a female model in your line without having to resort to tittilation I'd say it's entirely justifiable to call it sexism.

Put it this way: If you're selling it as a pinup model, sure, go ahead. The entire point of a pinup model is that it's sexy (whether or not that is good or not is a debate I'm not touching with a 10 parsec pole). If you're selling it as a wargaming model then I'd question why you're trying to sell a pinup model as a wargaming model, and further question why you have to sexualize a model that by all rights ought to have nothing with sex to do at all (again, exceptions such as Slaanesh apply).

The day I need my toy soldiers as T'n'A over say... one of any of the several thousand college girls a few miles from my apartment, who out of that number I'm sure a few hundred would be willing to have a drink with me at the pub, will be a very sad, pathetic day indeed. More so if my manhood hinges on said toy soldiers instead of literally everything else that makes me the bad ass skull crusher I am.

I do find it kinda hilarious how there's a certain demographic that comes out when female minis with clothes on that try to rant about that being wrong like they're wounded or their fun is reduced in some way by someone else's toy soldiers having some well made armor instead of being some modeling glue and a well made pin away from a wardrobe malfunction all the time.

We don't think associating "liking miniatures that depict sexualised female characters" and "being a loser who can't talk to real women" is kind of low-hanging fruit, then? We're going for it?

xruslanx wrote:

Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

How quaintly heteronormative of you.

 Crimson wrote:

xruslanx wrote:

Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

How quaintly heteronormative of you.

I can only assume he's from the planet where LGBT people don't exist

xruslanx wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Ah, so you admit you have no evidence to support your assertion that non-pinup models don't sell because they don't shove tits in everyone's face (instead of the real reason, which is quite simply they're not selling because no one is fething making them)... which is just as good as admitting you are wrong.

I guess every single marketing exec is wrong and you are right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lockark wrote:

One of the funny things that came out of that was a few people trying to say that the people on DakkaDakka just hate the female body, and that none of us want boobies in our wargames. (Some sort of straw-man argument trying to say we were the ones being sexist...)

Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

True enough, if you are sexually orientated straight and you are male, you obviously do like looking at birds bodies, were just evolved apes after all... I don't like looking at little gakky plastic models for their allure though!

I think that they should make the 40k women look like the 40k men, and thats dog rough, covered in scars, grimy, and wincing, like that picture I posted from the cover of Red and Black, you can hardly tell shes a bird, and having seen plenty of women in body armor and helmets, I can tell you that is indeed the case in real life as well! I couldn't pick the female medic out from the man at 50 yards when I was in Afghanistan, why should they look like slags in miniature form?

I love looking at birds, but proper ones, and if I can't have a proper one because I'm stuck somewhere that there aren't any, then Ill watch one doing explicit X rated things in high definition on my laptop when I feel the urge, but really, whats the point in worry about tiny little plastic soldier models being shapely? Its not like you are going to use them as a sex aid! Why... since laptops and HD screens became so common popular, I even recycled my beloved collection of jazz mags that were handed down to me by an outgoing bloke when I joined 40 commando!

So what the hell use is a leggy model? They seem to occupy that pointless area between not being worth reading and not worth fapping over.. you know.. like how FHM sits in that utterly pointless middle ground because it isn't worth reading like an actual book, and it isn't worth a fap like a jazz mag? Id rather read the back of a bottle of shampoo than a lads mag!

I agree with the posters who want rough looking female soldiers personally, not leggy futuristic prostitutes who take to the battlefield in stilettos, and I dont say that because I dont like tits, I say that because I take my fluff seriously and enjoy reading it all and collecting the novels, so replacing the heavily scarred, thick set, short haired sisters with leggy golden haired pouting slappers holding dainty looking flamethrowers throws the rest of the setting into mockery. I want birds with scars and wolf lean physiques with plenty of thin wiry muscle from yomping across wastelands carrying rocket launchers!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, and I've just been perusing the GW website.... holy fething gak.

I can't actually believe the price they are charging for that stuff.. some third party could make a killing by making some non-slutty stand in soldier girls.

 mattyrm wrote:
I want birds with scars and wolf lean physiques with plenty of thin wiry muscle from yomping across wastelands carrying rocket launchers!

I like the style of the current line just fine. But I have to put my foot down against this, Sisters don't carry rocket launchers.....

 dracpanzer wrote:

I like the style of the current line just fine. But I have to put my foot down against this, Sisters don't carry rocket launchers.....

But maybe they should? Their heavy weapon arsenal is really limited, and Flak Missiles, weak as they are, would still give them some much needed AA. (And then they could have blessed missiles that would gain extra punch against daemons!)

 dracpanzer wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
I want birds with scars and wolf lean physiques with plenty of thin wiry muscle from yomping across wastelands carrying rocket launchers!

I like the style of the current line just fine. But I have to put my foot down against this, Sisters don't carry rocket launchers.....

You get the point, they look fine as they are, they shouldn't change the aesthetic, juts make more models.

And they definately need some AT, It doesn't make sense for their infantry not to carry some!

Has anyone been watching GW's website change all week?

"1 click collections" Have now come out of the woodwork

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/listProducts.jsp?catId=cat660002a

A regular troop squad is only $101! and is available as a squad for the first time in at least 2 years!

Between not having a current Codex, not getting any support or new models and being twice the price of any other already cost prohibitive army to field GW shouldn't have to wonder why thye don't do well.....

I wonder what flyer they will get access to...

Well this thread went way off topic.

As for prices, yup. That's all I'm going to say a t the moment. Yup.

They aren't the most expensive army you can get from GW however (Krieg and Tallarn seem to take that cake, especially if you go horde).

I'm not going to claim I get why Sisters cost so much. Maybe they're burning through the molds faster because of the small batch runs so it's in the cost, maybe it's just the small batch runs themselves being the culprit, I don't know.

Either way I don't think GW is trying to sell new players on Sisters, I think they're trying to show the army some support and get them rules that you can actually play with and then bring out the real deal next year (yes, I'm still fairly confident that next year is a good time to bring them out in plastic, and until the rumor schedule gets that far out and starts proving me wrong that's what I'll be sticking with).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 logg_frogg wrote:
Has anyone been watching GW's website change all week?

"1 click collections" Have now come out of the woodwork

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/listProducts.jsp?catId=cat660002a

A regular troop squad is only $101! and is available as a squad for the first time in at least 2 years!

Between not having a current Codex, not getting any support or new models and being twice the price of any other already cost prohibitive army to field GW shouldn't have to wonder why thye don't do well.....

I wonder what flyer they will get access to...

They announced a whole list of One-Clicks on Saturday. It really wasn't a surprise to me at least.

Don't know about a flyer, maybe a peice of wargear to upgrade the Retributors to skyfire their weapons or something?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
They aren't the most expensive army you can get from GW however (Krieg and Tallarn seem to take that cake, especially if you go horde).

Forge World doesn't count.

I think its amusing that the Immolator is still the same price as the Rhino

All I hope is that the sales numbers from the digital edition and some of the mini's drive them to produce both more mini's and a real print book.

 Breotan wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
They aren't the most expensive army you can get from GW however (Krieg and Tallarn seem to take that cake, especially if you go horde).

Forge World doesn't count.

Why doesn't FW count? Because we want to set arbitrary limits on what counts to prove ourselves right despite it being the same company? Even if you rule out FW because of "reasons" Tallarn is an all metal Guard army made by GW. It's priced at Sisters prices, but can end up being far more expensive to build an army out of (unless you got Vets, then you're about the same).

And just so people can stop wandering in every seven posts and saying stuff is expensive, here are the one clicks:



And yes we get it, they're expensive, okay?

 Mr Morden wrote:
I think its amusing that the Immolator is still the same price as the Rhino

Well, gotta give 'em something. My gut says if you run bare minimum metal troops and then fill out the rest of your army with plastic tanks the army's about the top end of normal price wise... but personally I'd find very little fun in doing that since I'm no treadhead, and if I were I'd probably do IG for the variety. Sisters range is in dire need of updating with plastics. The end.

And those of us htat have been paying attention have been saying this for years now

 Melissia wrote:
And those of us htat have been paying attention have been saying this for years now

*raises hand* I'm in that boat. I bought almost my entire collection from GW or my FLGs (who was paying extra to order them direct from GW (the discount he got as a retailer was smaller)). I don't regret it, but it's amazing how much talk I hear about Sisters being expensive whenever someone wants to start hem only to see so many posts about how expensive they are being posted here. I'm pretty sure it's been said for years and people just weren't paying attention.

So for those newbies out there, I'm going to ask you veterans:

With the new AS codex coming out, if I'm wanting a 1000 point army, maximizing bang for my buck but using GW retail as a base price (which we will then take of from FLGS discounts and ebay) what do I buy? Include the $40 for the codex.

 mattyrm wrote:

xruslanx wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Ah, so you admit you have no evidence to support your assertion that non-pinup models don't sell because they don't shove tits in everyone's face (instead of the real reason, which is quite simply they're not selling because no one is fething making them)... which is just as good as admitting you are wrong.

I guess every single marketing exec is wrong and you are right.


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 Lockark wrote:

One of the funny things that came out of that was a few people trying to say that the people on DakkaDakka just hate the female body, and that none of us want boobies in our wargames. (Some sort of straw-man argument trying to say we were the ones being sexist...)

Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

True enough, if you are sexually orientated straight and you are male, you obviously do like looking at birds bodies, were just evolved apes after all... I don't like looking at little gakky plastic models for their allure though!

I think that they should make the 40k women look like the 40k men, and thats dog rough, covered in scars, grimy, and wincing, like that picture I posted from the cover of Red and Black, you can hardly tell shes a bird, and having seen plenty of women in body armor and helmets, I can tell you that is indeed the case in real life as well! I couldn't pick the female medic out from the man at 50 yards when I was in Afghanistan, why should they look like slags in miniature form?

I love looking at birds, but proper ones, and if I can't have a proper one because I'm stuck somewhere that there aren't any, then Ill watch one doing explicit X rated things in high definition on my laptop when I feel the urge, but really, whats the point in worry about tiny little plastic soldier models being shapely? Its not like you are going to use them as a sex aid! Why... since laptops and HD screens became so common popular, I even recycled my beloved collection of jazz mags that were handed down to me by an outgoing bloke when I joined 40 commando!

So what the hell use is a leggy model? They seem to occupy that pointless area between not being worth reading and not worth fapping over.. you know.. like how FHM sits in that utterly pointless middle ground because it isn't worth reading like an actual book, and it isn't worth a fap like a jazz mag? Id rather read the back of a bottle of shampoo than a lads mag!

I agree with the posters who want rough looking female soldiers personally, not leggy futuristic prostitutes who take to the battlefield in stilettos, and I dont say that because I dont like tits, I say that because I take my fluff seriously and enjoy reading it all and collecting the novels, so replacing the heavily scarred, thick set, short haired sisters with leggy golden haired pouting slappers holding dainty looking flamethrowers throws the rest of the setting into mockery. I want birds with scars and wolf lean physiques with plenty of thin wiry muscle from yomping across wastelands carrying rocket launchers!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, and I've just been perusing the GW website.... holy fething gak.

I can't actually believe the price they are charging for that stuff.. some third party could make a killing by making some non-slutty stand in soldier girls.

Hahahah, and there's Matty for ya! Perfectly said. Have an exalt.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
And those of us htat have been paying attention have been saying this for years now

*raises hand* I'm in that boat. I bought almost my entire collection from GW or my FLGs (who was paying extra to order them direct from GW (the discount he got as a retailer was smaller)). I don't regret it, but it's amazing how much talk I hear about Sisters being expensive whenever someone wants to start hem only to see so many posts about how expensive they are being posted here. I'm pretty sure it's been said for years and people just weren't paying attention.

It's been stupid expensive since I got into the hobby many moons ago.

 ClockworkZion wrote:


...

And just so people can stop wandering in every seven posts and saying stuff is expensive, here are the one clicks:



And yes we get it, they're expensive, okay?

It's not the expense that gets me about the one-clicks (as this is not news) but how useless they are. Does anyone field squads like that? They suffer from the one of each weapon syndrome. Do you need stormbolters and melta guns in the same unit? Does anyone field arcoflagelents in a conclave, much less 6 of them? So not only are you not saving any money, but you are getting a unit that sucks. But think of the clicks you save!

I know most of the one-clicks have this problem, but some actually pretend to be useful...

godswildcard wrote:

So for those newbies out there, I'm going to ask you veterans:

With the new AS codex coming out, if I'm wanting a 1000 point army, maximizing bang for my buck but using GW retail as a base price (which we will then take of from FLGS discounts and ebay) what do I buy? Include the $40 for the codex.

Other than saying you'll need bolter Sisters and some Superiors it's hard to say until the book hits. I think I know just enough to say I don't know what you should get until the book drops.

 Nevelon wrote:

It's not the expense that gets me about the one-clicks (as this is not news) but how useless they are. Does anyone field squads like that? They suffer from the one of each weapon syndrome. Do you need stormbolters and melta guns in the same unit? Does anyone field arcoflagelents in a conclave, much less 6 of them? So not only are you not saving any money, but you are getting a unit that sucks. But think of the clicks you save!

I know most of the one-clicks have this problem, but some actually pretend to be useful...

I run my BSS usually either like the Celestians are done, or by replacing that flamer with a melta, so they aren't all bad.

If arcos went back to the massed packs they used to be available in C:WH, that might be useful. No idea really.

Honestly none of these are bad packs to get a group of models with to flesh out a collection, but if you have something in mind buying the unit in parts might be a better choice.

godswildcard wrote:

So for those newbies out there, I'm going to ask you veterans:

With the new AS codex coming out, if I'm wanting a 1000 point army, maximizing bang for my buck but using GW retail as a base price (which we will then take of from FLGS discounts and ebay) what do I buy? Include the $40 for the codex.

For my wife's army (her first time playing or even painting) we are going with the following to start:

HQ
Saint Celestine $20

Troops

10 Sister squad (Melta Gun, Heavy Bolter, Simulacrum Imperialis) $83.90
Rhino/Immolator $37

10 Sister squad (Melta Gun, Heavy Bolter, Simulacrum Imperialis) $83.90
Rhino/Immolator $37

That is JUST enough to have a legal army, at around $260. We will need to add more as we go, but that will be enough for her to start learning the game

 ClockworkZion wrote:

godswildcard wrote:

So for those newbies out there, I'm going to ask you veterans:

With the new AS codex coming out, if I'm wanting a 1000 point army, maximizing bang for my buck but using GW retail as a base price (which we will then take of from FLGS discounts and ebay) what do I buy? Include the $40 for the codex.

Other than saying you'll need bolter Sisters and some Superiors it's hard to say until the book hits. I think I know just enough to say I don't know what you should get until the book drops.

.

Fair enough! Expect a new thread to open promptly on the 19th!

I really hope they redo them, GW have really upped their game with their plastics lately, and the cultists in DV showed what they can do with smaller scale, more human looking characters covered in chains and gubbins and things.

Its a potential goldmine, even I would consider buying a brand new sisters army if they made some new models.

As has been said many times before, they are just allergic to making money, because I guarantee a few brand new sisters troop options would shift stacks more models than those tired old metals, one click bundles or no.

 Crimson wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

I like the style of the current line just fine. But I have to put my foot down against this, Sisters don't carry rocket launchers.....

But maybe they should? Their heavy weapon arsenal is really limited, and Flak Missiles, weak as they are, would still give them some much needed AA. (And then they could have blessed missiles that would gain extra punch against daemons!)

Forget Flak Missiles, just let Exorcists ignore the penalty for firing at aircraft.

(Incidentally, I recently found out that my stance on Sisters and aircraft is actually the unofficial motto of the Israeli anti-aircraft unit: ""If I don't get to fly, NO ONE gets to fly.")

 Melissia wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that pin-ups sell better than "professional soldiers of god".

What evidence do you have of this?

I don't have any hard evidence, but I think you really ought to lower your esteem of humanity as a whole .

xruslanx wrote:
Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

Actually, obsessing over plastic T'n'A will likely make you look like some immature little boy, and unwanted attention at some woman's T'n'A will make you an awful jerk. But maybe that's part of what you call being a man .

Mr Morden wrote:Celestian Sqaud - +1 WS, +1I, option to take Blessed blades (Relic blades) or similar

Artificer armor. Definitely. Would we get the cheapest 2+ unit, that would definitely be awesome ! And/or maybe Rosarius for the whole squad.

Crimson wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

How quaintly heteronormative of you.

If gays don't fantasize about tits^w nipples actually, and asses, then please explain to me the movie Batman & Robin .

(edited down to this because I royally effed up the quotes...)

Marttyrm: Yeaaah... I mean FFS, many of these are the same models they were selling in second edition, almost fifteen years ago! Some of these models are older than the people buying them!

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl: Please, as if it was possible for me to have a lower opinion of the more machismo aspects of Russian culture. This is the same culture that glorifies rape and sexism and is approaching continental African levels of homophobia.

As for Batman and Robin... I thought most people preferred to deny that movie's existence?

As has been said, it could just be market research.

They know people have Sisters armies. How many are willing to purchase the e-book?

Facebook likes surged by a couple of thousand. If that translates to sales of the Codex, it could lead to resources being allocated to developing Sisters for a full release.

More resources could be allocated if there is a jump in purchasing models from the online store. By that I mean definite evidence of Armies being purchased rather than existing collector's topping up. If customers are willing to pony up for those prices how many would go for a plastic release (assuming a 10-figure Troops choice in the same price range as a SM Tactical Squad)?

alphaecho wrote:
As has been said, it could just be market research.

They know people have Sisters armies. How many are willing to purchase the e-book?

Facebook likes surged by a couple of thousand. If that translates to sales of the Codex, it could lead to resources being allocated to developing Sisters for a full release.

More resources could be allocated if there is a jump in purchasing models from the online store. By that I mean definite evidence of Armies being purchased rather than existing collector's topping up. If customers are willing to pony up for those prices how many would go for a plastic release (assuming a 10-figure Troops choice in the same price range as a SM Tactical Squad)?

I doubt this move will translate to "if" Sisters get a full release, but perhaps instead an idea of how strong the interest is already and in turn how much they should probably stock. I'm betting at this point there are numbers for how many codexes they sell, and of those, how many on average (percent wise) are digital. They also have sales figures from a number of previous releases to work backwards from and determine roughly how popular Sisters might be if they got a release, say tomorrow. This would help them set inventory levels and production goals that they don't otherwise have data on for the army in terms of how much they'll need for that update.

But I'm just tossing my own thoughts out there on this, so I remain capable of being wrong.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

alphaecho wrote:
As has been said, it could just be market research.

They know people have Sisters armies. How many are willing to purchase the e-book?

Facebook likes surged by a couple of thousand. If that translates to sales of the Codex, it could lead to resources being allocated to developing Sisters for a full release.

More resources could be allocated if there is a jump in purchasing models from the online store. By that I mean definite evidence of Armies being purchased rather than existing collector's topping up. If customers are willing to pony up for those prices how many would go for a plastic release (assuming a 10-figure Troops choice in the same price range as a SM Tactical Squad)?

I doubt this move will translate to "if" Sisters get a full release, but perhaps instead an idea of how strong the interest is already and in turn how much they should probably stock. I'm betting at this point there are numbers for how many codexes they sell, and of those, how many on average (percent wise) are digital. They also have sales figures from a number of previous releases to work backwards from and determine roughly how popular Sisters might be if they got a release, say tomorrow. This would help them set inventory levels and production goals that they don't otherwise have data on for the army in terms of how much they'll need for that update.

But I'm just tossing my own thoughts out there on this, so I remain capable of being wrong.

Don't we all?

I'm in a lucky situation as I have had a full Sisters army since the original Codex release. I even picked up the Black Library Stern/ Hand limited figures. When Witchunters came out, I splashed for the Exorcist, new Immolator, a Forge World Repressor plus a smattering of new miniatures (Canoness, Sisters Superior and so on). I could be the type of customer Digital Editions are after for this release. I may even treat myself to a new Immolator! I'll be over the moon if I get to use Stern as a Jump Pack Palatine again!

alphaecho wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

alphaecho wrote:
As has been said, it could just be market research.

They know people have Sisters armies. How many are willing to purchase the e-book?

Facebook likes surged by a couple of thousand. If that translates to sales of the Codex, it could lead to resources being allocated to developing Sisters for a full release.

More resources could be allocated if there is a jump in purchasing models from the online store. By that I mean definite evidence of Armies being purchased rather than existing collector's topping up. If customers are willing to pony up for those prices how many would go for a plastic release (assuming a 10-figure Troops choice in the same price range as a SM Tactical Squad)?

I doubt this move will translate to "if" Sisters get a full release, but perhaps instead an idea of how strong the interest is already and in turn how much they should probably stock. I'm betting at this point there are numbers for how many codexes they sell, and of those, how many on average (percent wise) are digital. They also have sales figures from a number of previous releases to work backwards from and determine roughly how popular Sisters might be if they got a release, say tomorrow. This would help them set inventory levels and production goals that they don't otherwise have data on for the army in terms of how much they'll need for that update.

But I'm just tossing my own thoughts out there on this, so I remain capable of being wrong.

Don't we all?

Perhaps, but I like to freely admit that I retain the right to be wrong at all times.

alphaecho wrote:
I'm in a lucky situation as I have had a full Sisters army since the original Codex release. I even picked up the Black Library Stern/ Hand limited figures. When Witchunters came out, I splashed for the Exorcist, new Immolator, a Forge World Repressor plus a smattering of new miniatures (Canoness, Sisters Superior and so on). I could be the type of customer Digital Editions are after for this release. I may even treat myself to a new Immolator! I'll be over the moon if I get to use Stern as a Jump Pack Palatine again!

Congrats! I wasn't playing back then (didn't start until the end of 3rd, missed 4th completely, started again in 5th) and even then I didn't start with Sisters.

If I knew then what I know now, I might have.

Erm, I don't own the white dwarf codex, so I'm not sure if this correct, but could dominion squads take more than 2 special weapons with only 5 members in the squad? The dominion one-click bundle comes with 3 special weapons, so I was wondering if that may be a change in the new codex.

Haighus wrote:
Erm, I don't own the white dwarf codex, so I'm not sure if this correct, but could dominion squads take more than 2 special weapons with only 5 members in the squad? The dominion one-click bundle comes with 3 special weapons, so I was wondering if that may be a change in the new codex.

Currently is 2:5 but that may have changed to back to 4 again. Which would be cool.

Up to four special weapons if memory serves, for a squad of ten (five for a squad of two I think?). They're closer to IG special weapons squads in that regard.

It's 2 for 5, right now.

 Melissia wrote:
Up to four special weapons if memory serves, for a squad often (five for a squad of two I think?). They're closer to IG special weapons squads in that regard.

Nope it was definitely 2/5 for dominions. If we go 3/5 or just up to 4 that would rock.

andrewm9 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Up to four special weapons if memory serves, for a squad often (five for a squad of two I think?). They're closer to IG special weapons squads in that regard.

Nope it was definitely 2/5 for dominions. If we go 3/5 or just up to 4 that would rock.

She said that, she just combined 'of ten' to 'often'.

Yeah, it was a typo.

It would indeed rock but I think people would scream at us

On the other hand sales of Sisters as Allies may well go well. Given how much you have to pay for plastic HQ's (£18 for a basic Librarian IIRC?) and special stuff these days not sure that its that unattracitve a proposition as an allied contingent.

Of course we all know just buying a small force seldom stops there!

Given that basic Sisters can take 2 Special or 1 Heavy+1 Special in unit of five may not be that out there......

 Mr Morden wrote:
It would indeed rock but I think people would scream at us

On the other hand sales of Sisters as Allies may well go well. Given how much you have to pay for plastic HQ's (£18 for a basic Librarian IIRC?) and special stuff these days not sure that its that unattracitve a proposition as an allied contingent.

Of course we all know just buying a small force seldom stops there!

Given that basic Sisters can take 2 Special or 1 Heavy+1 Special in unit of five may not be that out there......

Let 'em cry! It's not like Dominons with Specials are free. They're over 20 points a model unless you take Stormbolters.

Luckily you get lots of stormbolters in the new bundles!

 Shandara wrote:
Luckily you get lots of stormbolters in the new bundles!

Yeah, but unless we get blessed bolt rounds again, I don't see much use for those.

Yeah, SBs are a bit pointless, especially on Dominion squads.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Luckily you get lots of stormbolters in the new bundles!

Yeah, but unless we get blessed bolt rounds again, I don't see much use for those.

Conversions to Combi-Bolters.

Melissia wrote:Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl: Please, as if it was possible for me to have a lower opinion of the more machismo aspects of Russian culture. This is the same culture that glorifies rape and sexism and is approaching continental African levels of homophobia.

Everything you can imagine, the internet can make it worse .

Melissia wrote:As for Batman and Robin... I thought most people preferred to deny that movie's existence?

Oh no, it's AWESOME ! It's a very deep deconstruction of the Batman mythos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The best use of Sisters with SB model is to throw them at the face of your opponent if he/she is cheating !

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Luckily you get lots of stormbolters in the new bundles!

Yeah, but unless we get blessed bolt rounds again, I don't see much use for those.

Conversions to Combi-Bolters.

Right, but those aren't exaclty using them as Stormbolters, now are they?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Right, but those aren't exaclty using them as Stormbolters, now are they?

Nope, but it is using the models.

The best use for Storm Bolter models that I have seen is on superiors. For 3 points a pop, you get a little range. I have run them mostly on the Ret superior since it is actually helpful there and she can make it rending.

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Right, but those aren't exaclty using them as Stormbolters, now are they?

Nope, but it is using the models.

The best use for Storm Bolter models that I have seen is on superiors. For 3 points a pop, you get a little range. I have run them mostly on the Ret superior since it is actually helpful there and she can make it rending.

In this edition, it's the same range you already have with a bolter now, just 1 extra die thrown in.

I can see the merit of the RSS having one though, Rending does make it better.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
In this edition, it's the same range you already have with a bolter now, just 1 extra die thrown in.

That's what I meant.

Basically, for 15 points, you get a bunch of extra shots across 5 units. I probably wouldn't do it, but it is an option.

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
In this edition, it's the same range you already have with a bolter now, just 1 extra die thrown in.

That's what I meant.

Basically, for 15 points, you get a bunch of extra shots across 5 units. I probably wouldn't do it, but it is an option.

A not very good option, but yes, an option.

I presume storm bolters are a bad investment for Sisters because none of the units that can take them -- except maybe sort slightly Celestians -- should ever be assaulting, so Rapid Fire regular bolters are all you need?

I think we are veering a liitle off topic here folks, but I always thought that a squad like Dominions should have their basic weapon as a stormbolter giving some them more utility.

 SisterSydney wrote:
I presume storm bolters are a bad investment for Sisters because none of the units that can take them -- except maybe sort slightly Celestians -- should ever be assaulting, so Rapid Fire regular bolters are all you need?

Not really. Storm Bolters are a bad investment because, except in the case of superiors, they replace your other special / heavy weapon choices.

What would you rather have: an extra bolter shot or a melta/flamer/heavy flamer/multimelta?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

andrewm9 wrote:
I think we are veering a liitle off topic here folks, but I always thought that a squad like Dominions should have their basic weapon as a stormbolter giving some them more utility.

Agreed. A storm bolter unit would be cool. I would say Celestians though.

We're obsessing a lot over those storm bolters considering that swapping the gun for a special weapon from your bitz box should be a fairly easy conversion I suspect

 Bull0 wrote:
We're obsessing a lot over those storm bolters considering that swapping the gun for a special weapon from your bitz box should be a fairly easy conversion I suspect

lol no.



It is held against the body, so has to be carved out with a dremel or saw, smoothed and then another weapon added. It is much easier to just use a different model than try to convert a storm bolter sister. The easiest meltagun conversions come from extra heavy weapon models, in my opinion.

Or you could just buy the model with a melta.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Or you could just buy the model with a melta.

Yeah, but if you have to convert, there are definitely easier methods than converting bolter/storm bolter models.

 pretre wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
We're obsessing a lot over those storm bolters considering that swapping the gun for a special weapon from your bitz box should be a fairly easy conversion I suspect

lol no.

Spoiler:

It is held against the body, so has to be carved out with a dremel or saw, smoothed and then another weapon added. It is much easier to just use a different model than try to convert a storm bolter sister. The easiest meltagun conversions come from extra heavy weapon models, in my opinion.

Doesn't look so difficult to me. I used to bulls-eye womp rats in my T16 back home and they're not bigger than a couple meters. OBVIOUSLY it's a lot easier to use a model with a smaller gun, held further from the body, but this is the one in the one-click bundle, which was your jumping off point for all these comments about storm bolters.

 Bull0 wrote:
Doesn't look so difficult to me. I used to bulls-eye womp rats in my T16 back home and they're not bigger than a couple meters.

Umm... Yeah.

So anyways, back on topic...

Anyone been refreshing their 'My Downloads' screen on the Black Library hoping that someone hits the wrong button?

 pretre wrote:


Anyone been refreshing their 'My Downloads' screen on the Black Library hoping that someone hits the wrong button?

Um...no.

So anyways, back on topic...

 Bull0 wrote:

 pretre wrote:


Anyone been refreshing their 'My Downloads' screen on the Black Library hoping that someone hits the wrong button?

Um...no.

So anyways, back on topic...

Frantically waiting for the release the thread is about is on topic. Conversion opportunities or uses for storm bolters isn't.

 pretre wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:

 pretre wrote:


Anyone been refreshing their 'My Downloads' screen on the Black Library hoping that someone hits the wrong button?

Um...no.

So anyways, back on topic...

Frantically waiting for the release the thread is about is on topic. Conversion opportunities or uses for storm bolters isn't.

You went there, mate. Suddenly I'm the one that's OT because I make a joke about it?

 Bull0 wrote:
We're obsessing a lot over those storm bolters considering that swapping the gun for a special weapon from your bitz box should be a fairly easy conversion I suspect

I don't know, I made a bit of a hash turning a couple of stormbolter into a couple heavy bolters. It's useable, but it's not brilliant.

Geez, is it time yet? This week is gonna go super slow I feel....

D

 Bull0 wrote:
You went there, mate. Suddenly I'm the one that's OT because I make a joke about it?

Nooo... The thread was OT, so I was trying to guide us back. Guilty conscience?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 evildrcheese wrote:
Geez, is it time yet? This week is gonna go super slow I feel....

No joke. So for previous releases, what time did they actually put the downloads up? Was it 12:01AM UK time or sometime during the day?

 pretre wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
You went there, mate. Suddenly I'm the one that's OT because I make a joke about it?

Nooo... The thread was OT, so I was trying to guide us back. Guilty conscience?

*I* was trying to guide us back by pointing out that obsessing over the presence of storm bolters in the one-click bundles barely matters because you can just convert them anyway. You went into all crazy details about dremels and saws and how HARD THAT WOULD BE BULL0 OMGAWD

Not sure. If it is 12:01 I might stay up on Friday for it. Assuming there's no one working (as it's a saturday) and it's an automated thing that makes the link 'live' there's no reason why it couldn't be on a 12:01am...Hopefully we won't have to wait for someone to 'press the button'...

D

Even if it drops at 12:01 in the UK there is an arbitrary wait here in the US for the ibook one. Apparently Apple thinks there are shores on the internet.

 pretre wrote:
what time did they actually put the downloads up? Was it 12:01AM UK time or sometime during the day?

A little earlier than that, actually. Maybe around 11:30pm, UK time? They did take it down again briefly, but it came back for good around 11:40pm. Maybe they'll jump the gun again? We can only hope.

 pretre wrote:
It's 2 for 5, right now.

The Superior can also take a combi weapon, so you can get an extra one-shot special weapon.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I doubt this move will translate to "if" Sisters get a full release

I'm of the same mindset. Though I see a lot of people assuming that this release is actually going to determine whether they get any further support. Whether out of cynicism or a lack of knowledge about GW's previous attempts to make plastic SoBs, I'm not sure.

 Troike wrote:

 pretre wrote:
what time did they actually put the downloads up? Was it 12:01AM UK time or sometime during the day?

A little earlier than that, actually. Maybe around 11:30pm, UK time? They did take it down again briefly, but it came back fro good around 11:40pm. Maybe they'll jump the gun again? We can only hope.

Wow, so Pacific is -8 GMT, so that means I could get it Thursday afternoon at that rate. Here's to hoping.

 pretre wrote:

 Troike wrote:

 pretre wrote:
what time did they actually put the downloads up? Was it 12:01AM UK time or sometime during the day?

A little earlier than that, actually. Maybe around 11:30pm, UK time? They did take it down again briefly, but it came back fro good around 11:40pm. Maybe they'll jump the gun again? We can only hope.

Wow, so Pacific is -8 GMT, so that means I could get it Thursday afternoon at that rate. Here's to hoping.

Yeah, I'm -7 hours behind the UK myself, but iBook codex preview didn't drop at 5, but around 10pm local, so looks like I'll be waiting on 12 am EST for mine.

I am looking forward to the faq

 Mr Morden wrote:
I am looking forward to the faq

At least if there is one it'll update rather easily.

Though it seems like the web team is getting sloppy, I noticed this last weekend that the Dark Elves FAQ for the old book was still up.

 pretre wrote:

 Troike wrote:

 pretre wrote:
what time did they actually put the downloads up? Was it 12:01AM UK time or sometime during the day?

A little earlier than that, actually. Maybe around 11:30pm, UK time? They did take it down again briefly, but it came back fro good around 11:40pm. Maybe they'll jump the gun again? We can only hope.

Wow, so Pacific is -8 GMT, so that means I could get it Thursday afternoon at that rate. Here's to hoping.

No, a saturday launch here, even a half hour premature one, still lands you on the friday. So friday afternoon for you. Otherwise you would need to be -32 GMT, which is making my brain hurt from trying to divide by 0.

Oh, I thought it was coming out on Friday. Forgot the 19th was Saturday.

 Purifier wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Troike wrote:

 pretre wrote:
what time did they actually put the downloads up? Was it 12:01AM UK time or sometime during the day?

A little earlier than that, actually. Maybe around 11:30pm, UK time? They did take it down again briefly, but it came back fro good around 11:40pm. Maybe they'll jump the gun again? We can only hope.

Wow, so Pacific is -8 GMT, so that means I could get it Thursday afternoon at that rate. Here's to hoping.

No, a saturday launch here, even a half hour premature one, still lands you on the friday. So friday afternoon for you. Otherwise you would need to be -32 GMT, which is making my brain hurt from trying to divide by 0.

Unless you use iTunes like I am (yes, I'm probably an idiot, but I like the features of the thing) then you're looking at midnight EST.

 Mr Morden wrote:
I am looking forward to the faq

No problem, costs only 10 £ (hey, it contains a point adjustment, well actually corrects a typo, but still)

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
I am looking forward to the faq

No problem, costs only 10 £ (hey, it contains a point adjustment, well actually corrects a typo, but still)

Kroot, you must be off your Alzheimer's meds again.

If you want to be useful, why not poke your sources for when the full codex will be coming out instead of poking the bees nest in here.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Kroot, you must be off your Alzheimer's meds again.

If you want to be useful, why not poke your sources for when the full codex will be coming out instead of poking the bees nest in here.

It is called different opinion, not Alzheimer.
And AFAIK no full Codex the next 9 months. Orks, IG and probably Space Wolves before that at least.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Orks, IG and probably Space Wolves before that at least.

And, I would bet, at least two or three Codex: Space Marines; and a dozen Codex: Color Marines !

 Kroothawk wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Kroot, you must be off your Alzheimer's meds again.

If you want to be useful, why not poke your sources for when the full codex will be coming out instead of poking the bees nest in here.

It is called different opinion, not Alzheimer.
And AFAIK no full Codex the next 9 months. Orks, IG and probably Space Wolves before that at least.

Your "opinion" has been you flogging the dead horse named "I think it's just the WD with a bigger price tag" for a number of pages now. I think we got it Kroot. You miss C:WH, wish it never went away from that and are sad that we have this intermediate thing. Well the intermediate is finally getting pushed forward with an update, which tells me the studio is trying to do more with them again.

You already explained why we likely got this thing, so why be so glum? We know GW is working on them in some capacity, and there is some kind of interest in the studio so why bitch about the fact they are extending us some kind of evidence that they're trying to do stuff with the army? I mean we have Cruddace saying they listened to our complaints and looked into making Faith Points scale, that means that at least some of what we've been saying has been making it into the studio.

So why be so down on it?

So how long do we think it will take to sell out.....

 pretre wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
We're obsessing a lot over those storm bolters considering that swapping the gun for a special weapon from your bitz box should be a fairly easy conversion I suspect

lol no.



It is held against the body, so has to be carved out with a dremel or saw, smoothed and then another weapon added. It is much easier to just use a different model than try to convert a storm bolter sister. The easiest meltagun conversions come from extra heavy weapon models, in my opinion.

Ive tried to mod these a few times. It does not happen. I wish so much that it would.

Eldercaveman wrote:
So how long do we think it will take to sell out.....

Depends if the server crashes again over at GW like the space marine release lol.

 conker249 wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
So how long do we think it will take to sell out.....

Depends if the server crashes again over at GW like the space marine release lol.

Even if that happens the iTunes one should be okay.

And if that happened we'd be able to definitely say that Sisters are a very popular army concept.

Just looked at the "1-click bundles". I like how a 10 man metal IG squad is $50, well the 10 women SoB squad is $94.25...

These 1-click bundles are a joke, I might as well spend the extra half a minute picking out the exact weapon I want instead of getting stuck with thows damn storm bolters. Lord knows I get a billion of thows useless things every time I pick up a lot of used SoB models. Thows things go into the shoe box of purgatory so I don't have to look at them.


Pardon a spot of wishlisting. But the only way I could think of making that model useful, is if the sisters had special rending storm bolters or something.

 Lockark wrote:
Just looked at the "1-click bundles". I like how a 10 man metal IG squad is $50, well the 10 women SoB squad is $94.25...

These 1-click bundles are a joke, I might as well spend the extra half a minute picking out the exact weapon I want instead of getting stuck with thows damn storm bolters. Lord knows I get a billion of thows useless things every time I pick up a lot of used SoB models. Thows things go into the shoe box of purgatory so I don't have to look at them.


Pardon a spot of wishlisting. But the only way I could think of making that model useful, is if the sisters had special rending storm bolters or something.

Those one click bundles are the same cost as the models that make them up, so welcome to the world of everyone who has purchased them direct from GW.

It's been suggested that special ammo could make stormbolters useful, but even if we got that I can't see them getting a place in bss. Massed stormbolters with special ammo in doms could fill a specilised role, but would it be better than flamers or meltas? Unlikely.

If Celestines could take them as and got buffs as an assault unit then it could work, but tose buffs would have to be faily major to make us want to charge our sisters.

D

 Kreedos wrote:


Ive tried to mod these a few times. It does not happen. I wish so much that it would.

Snip off a barrel, plant combi-flamer, combi-melta barrel in its place. Real quick and easy combi-weapon conversion.

Also a great "counts as" sternguard with special ammo and combi-weapon if you want your "Celestians" bringing "blessed ammo" in a drop pod.

I just realized 3 sister blisters are 17.25, you can get 9 sisters with bolters for 51.75.

I've often fancied a sisters army, but not really gonna start one with the way things are priced.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I've often fancied a sisters army, but not really gonna start one with the way things are priced.

With the way pricing is heading, base troop box kits will soon be $60 for most anything :(

 Kreedos wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I've often fancied a sisters army, but not really gonna start one with the way things are priced.

With the way pricing is heading, base troop box kits will soon be $60 for most anything :(

So our squads gets at least $30 cheaper then (for 10)? I can live with the increased bits count, stabilizability, and so on to go with the price drop.

Looking at if someone wanted to have a nice little Sisters Allies squad:

St Celestine,
Dominon Squad (5) (2 Meltas),
Battle Sister Squad (5) (2 Meltas or Melta, Flamer),
2 Immolators
Exorcist.

That should run to £139.00.............and I think would be quite effective at around 500-550pts depending on what happens on Saturday?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Looking at if someone wanted to have a nice little Sisters Allies squad:

St Celestine,
Dominon Squad (5) (2 Meltas),
Battle Sister Squad (5) (2 Meltas or Melta, Flamer),
2 Immolators
Exorcist.

That should run to £139.00.............and I think would be quite effective at around 500-550pts depending on what happens on Saturday?

Quite a good plan, as with the low foot model count you then leave yourself free to expand it into a full army when they're inevitably relaunched with new plastic battle sisters.

 Bull0 wrote:
Quite a good plan, as with the low foot model count you then leave yourself free to expand it into a full army when Raging Heroes finally begins production of their Toughest Girls of the Galaxy models.

FTFY.

Bullo wrote:Quite a good plan, as with the low foot model count you then leave yourself free to expand it into a full army when they're inevitably relaunched with new plastic battle sisters.

 Breotan wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
Quite a good plan, as with the low foot model count you then leave yourself free to expand it into a full army when Raging Heroes finally begins production of their Toughest Girls of the Galaxy models.

FTFY.

Didn't like TGotG, pouting, exposed midriffs, boobs and butts everywhere, very likely any future efforts will be in keeping with that. Not really interested.

 Breotan wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
Quite a good plan, as with the low foot model count you then leave yourself free to expand it into a full army when Raging Heroes finally begins production of their Toughest Girls of the Galaxy models.

FTFY.

FTFY is supposed to make things better, not worse!

Seriously, everytime Sisters comes up someone comes around to flog Raging Heroes (and really you have the wrong set if you're trying to appeal to the Sisters players by referencing the set that doesn't have Sisters in it). We get it. Not all of us like the models, but we get it. Next thing you know people will be coming into these threads to tell us that water is wet, snow is cold and "everything floats down here". We know.

If you like their stuff that much just put it in your sig and let that do the talking for you instead of wasting posts reminding us all the time.

Yeah, not everybody is interested in Raging Heroes. I for one believe that plastic Sisters will be around by 2015 at the latest, so RH probably won't be "the only option". Regardless, let's not act like they're going to be our only choice for plastic female soldiers just yet, still too early to tell.

Also, personally, I don't want to use third-party stuff. I want my Sisters to be actual Sisters.

Raging Heroes have a nice idea, but it's been a long time coming.

Yeah, I don't trust RH with this either. Looking at their existing material, all I see is long legs and catwalk stances, but no professional warriors. It *might* be good enough for a Hive gang, and thus perhaps an IG regiment recruited from a Hive, but personally I just don't see it working for Sisters.

Even pointing at some Reaper minis would be more in line with the existing style.
By the way, is someone looking for a Canoness in Terminator armour?

 Breotan wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
Quite a good plan, as with the low foot model count you then leave yourself free to expand it into a full army when Raging Heroes finally begins production of their Toughest Girls of the Galaxy models.

FTFY.

Hell no. Raging Heroes produces nothing that could stand in for Sisters. Too much "supermodel trying to play as a soldier in a photoshoot" (and failing, at that), not enough "hardened soldier killing the feth out of heretics with a flamethrower".

GW's Sisters models > Raging Heroes.

 Lynata wrote:
Even pointing at some Reaper minis would be more in line with the existing style.

That fits in perfectly. Even the name of the picture says crusaders ! I like how third party makes some conclave count-as models that fits in way better than the official conclave model… without even trying, usually (though I guess there is a bit of conversion of those models, because the I and the rightmost shield symbol looks straight out of an Immolator kit) !
For instance, Privateer Press Daughter of the Flame ( http://privateerpress.com/files/products/32046_DaughtersoftheFlame_WEB.jpg ) can do some awesome DCA if you don't use the stupid official poses (pretty easy), and use a bit of greenstuff to turn metallic bra into breastplate, and fill that stupid little gap in their back.

I don't know about that. Some of the Kurg and Iron Empire minis are pretty good looking in the drawings.

Mostly the Heavy Troopers from each faction.

I will admit there's a lot of stuff in there that's more pin-up than "professional female soldier". Personally, from their lines, I prefer the completely armored up minis over the stuff like the Jailbirds.

Although if I ever did pick up their stuff, that wasn't Kurg/Iron Empire, I think it would be better ran/suited as a Count As IG army. Something like... Catachan Amazonian Army made of Jailbirds.

I don't really see the mincing super model for a lot of the TGG poses.



Some of the poses are terrible but that's war gaming in general tbh.

Cheesecakey? Yeah true especially the rambettes, but as has been previously discussed, the Sisters aren't exactly free of that themselves. Those daughters of the flame look cool!

Most of those fit better in an IG army, in my opinion. Storm-troopers.

I like some of the RH minis, but i'd get them just to paint em, i'll keep my sisters as sisters and fill in what i need with more sisters

 Shandara wrote:
Most of those fit better in an IG army, in my opinion. Storm-troopers.

Now that I'll agree with 100%.

I really hope that if they make a plastic sisters kit that we can have them in full armour. I really like the sisters models but too many of them have bare heads and the "bobbed" army just doesn't appeal to me.

Perhaps more hooded, or robed heads. Maybe even veiled. I think a deathmask look, similar to the Sanguinary Guard, would work well for sisters. If Space Marines can fully armour up, Sisters should get that ability. Failing that, various versions of the "Sabbat" helm will do nicely.

In saying that, I think the current aesthetic for the Sisters works well. Suitably gothic & menacing.

I think we will see more Sabbat helms with plastics. The Immolator gunner gets a choice of a Sabbat or a bare head, so hopefully this is a sign of future plastics going in the same direction. And, of course, a big part of plastics is their customisability, so more helmets would be quite in line with this

Though, I have to say, I'd vastly prefer Sabbat helms over hoods, veils ect. What I like about the Sabbat is that it's suitably medieval (it's basically a sallet in the future), but at the same time it's very practical and uniform. Also it's what they use now, so something else would feel like too much of a departure, for me.

The RH minis were clearly intended as alt IG models... obvious jailbirds = catachans, kurganovas = cadians, iron empire = DKoK. The "not" SoB minis are the upcoming scifi "Sisters of eternal mercy" line which I think is two kickstarters away (fantasy kickstarter being next featuring dark elves and most likley two other lines one of which I hope is an expanded mantis warriors aka not daemonettes)

 edweird wrote:
The RH minis were clearly intended as alt IG models... obvious jailbirds = catachans, kurganovas = cadians, iron empire = DKoK. The "not" SoB minis are the upcoming scifi "Sisters of eternal mercy" line which I think is two kickstarters away (fantasy kickstarter being next featuring dark elves and most likley two other lines one of which I hope is an expanded mantis warriors aka not daemonettes)

Based on their other work I'm going to have to say that those won't be for me.

Too much 'nun in space'.. like actual nuns.

 Shandara wrote:
Too much 'nun in space'.. like actual nuns.

I'd totally consider them for Mordhiem if it was still a thing!

 Shandara wrote:
Too much 'nun in space'.. like actual nuns.

Ehh, they seem more like an attempt to cash in on Sci-Fi and Assassin's Creed at the same time to me.

 Lynata wrote:

Even pointing at some Reaper minis would be more in line with the existing style.

Aren't those a Mordheim warband? I could have sworn they were converted Sisters of Sigmar.

So nuns in space don't fit the aesthetic of an army who's missile tank is an organ strapped to the top of a rhino?

Looks like this thread has descended into a hipster-like hate fest on Raging Heroes.

Concerning the lengthy miniature discussion:
I find the miniatures of the current release not better and not worse than those of the 2004 release. (only more expensive)

ALOT more expensive...

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Based on their other work I'm going to have to say that those won't be for me.

Fully reasonable position you have there... however the fact remains scifi space nuns with guns are not going to be in plastic for the time being and my bet is the RH ones are going to be available before GW drops a set. I already have 5k of Sisters of Battle in delicious pewter and am likely never parting with them. When plastics come out(depending on the models) I may supplement my celestians with them.

I was one of the heralds for the RH toughest girls kickstarter, and based on our dialogue with Asharah over the last few months I think the "Sisters of Eternal Mercy" line is going to be intentionally less cheesecake and more fitting of scifi warrior nuns that we would prefer to see. But then again until we see more concepts and sculpts that is just as good as wishful thinking.

I don't care if "you" think the Iron Empire Heavies are just alternatives for Imperial Guards...
I'll definately use them for SoB.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Concerning the lengthy miniature discussion:
I find the miniatures of the current release not better and not worse than those of the 2004 release. (only more expensive)

If you were trying to be clever, you missed the mark. You should have said 'of the 2011' release. 2004 actually had minis, so those were much better than the current release, which doesn't.

 Troike wrote:
Yeah, not everybody is interested in Raging Heroes. I for one believe that plastic Sisters will be around by 2015 at the latest, so RH probably won't be "the only option". Regardless, let's not act like they're going to be our only choice for plastic female soldiers just yet, still too early to tell.

Also, personally, I don't want to use third-party stuff. I want my Sisters to be actual Sisters.

they have plans to do "a Sisters type army" after their Dark elves...we shall see if GW is smart enough to get the plastics out before then...

but going by GW logic, the 5 sisters in plastic will go for 80 bucks as they are a quadrupal kit...you can make battle sisters, celestians, retributors, and dominions....

Havik110 wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Yeah, not everybody is interested in Raging Heroes. I for one believe that plastic Sisters will be around by 2015 at the latest, so RH probably won't be "the only option". Regardless, let's not act like they're going to be our only choice for plastic female soldiers just yet, still too early to tell.

Also, personally, I don't want to use third-party stuff. I want my Sisters to be actual Sisters.

they have plans to do "a Sisters type army" after their Dark elves...we shall see if GW is smart enough to get the plastics out before then...

but going by GW logic, the 5 sisters in plastic will go for 80 bucks as they are a quadrupal kit...you can make battle sisters, celestians, retributors, and dominions....

5 man multi-purpose kit sounds rather a lot like the grey knight box, which is £20.50 - converts to $33. Admittedly in the next round of seasonal price gouges I expect that kit to jump up to £25 minimum.

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
So nuns in space don't fit the aesthetic of an army who's missile tank is an organ strapped to the top of a rhino?

Looks like this thread has descended into a hipster-like hate fest on Raging Heroes.

Nice ad-hominem there. So we don't like how the Raging Heroes made their Sisters more like regular nuns than "Militant Space Nuns from the Future". That's not really a "hipster hate fest", that's a discussion of aesthetics which is an important factor in "demand" (as in supply and demand, and the whole study of markets, ect. Basically I'm saying we're not the target demographic here). The aesthetics we want are different so there is no demand from us.

Next time bring logic instead of fallacy, m'kay?

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
So nuns in space don't fit the aesthetic of an army who's missile tank is an organ strapped to the top of a rhino?

No, they don't. The Sisters of Battle have enough paladin to look good, while Raging Heroes concept art has more nun. I particularly hate wimples. Hajibs can look stylish and cool, but wimples just look goofy.

 edweird wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Based on their other work I'm going to have to say that those won't be for me.

Fully reasonable position you have there... however the fact remains scifi space nuns with guns are not going to be in plastic for the time being and my bet is the RH ones are going to be available before GW drops a set. I already have 5k of Sisters of Battle in delicious pewter and am likely never parting with them. When plastics come out(depending on the models) I may supplement my celestians with them.

Honestly, I have no incentive to buy Raging Heroes' products over GW's, especially in a situation where neither have said product out yet.

 edweird wrote:
I was one of the heralds for the RH toughest girls kickstarter, and based on our dialogue with Asharah over the last few months I think the "Sisters of Eternal Mercy" line is going to be intentionally less cheesecake and more fitting of scifi warrior nuns that we would prefer to see. But then again until we see more concepts and sculpts that is just as good as wishful thinking.

Exactly. People trying to "sell" this line are doing it far to prematurely when everything else we've seen from RH is cheesecake (no I'm not decrying cheesecake, put the torches and neckbeards away already). I've got nearly 3K in my collection (pending points cost adjustments) so I really have no incentive to get excited over a 3rd party product that isn't even out yet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bull0 wrote:

Havik110 wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Yeah, not everybody is interested in Raging Heroes. I for one believe that plastic Sisters will be around by 2015 at the latest, so RH probably won't be "the only option". Regardless, let's not act like they're going to be our only choice for plastic female soldiers just yet, still too early to tell.

Also, personally, I don't want to use third-party stuff. I want my Sisters to be actual Sisters.

they have plans to do "a Sisters type army" after their Dark elves...we shall see if GW is smart enough to get the plastics out before then...

but going by GW logic, the 5 sisters in plastic will go for 80 bucks as they are a quadrupal kit...you can make battle sisters, celestians, retributors, and dominions....

5 man multi-purpose kit sounds rather a lot like the grey knight box, which is £20.50 - converts to $33. Admittedly in the next round of seasonal price gouges I expect that kit to jump up to £25 minimum.

You mean like the 2013 price adjustments that never happened on the models?

GW seems to only be raising prices on things that sell so fast they have trouble keeping up with production or things that are updates. Honestly unless Sisters cost $90USD for 10 they'll be cheaper than they are now.

Heck, even at $90 they'll still be cheaper since you'll have bits left over.

HisDivineShadow: Yes we get it, you hate everyone who doesn't drool over the RH style of minis.

Moving right along.

Anyone know of a copy of the codex preview that doesn't require me to download some gakky Apple program?

 ClockworkZion wrote:


GW seems to only be raising prices on things that sell so fast they have trouble keeping up with production or things that are updates. Honestly unless Sisters cost $90USD for 10 they'll be cheaper than they are now.

Heck, even at $90 they'll still be cheaper since you'll have bits left over.

Oh yeah, sorry, maybe I didn't make that clear enough - I'm saying when it happens, I'm sure they'll be cheaper. We have the dark elf wych plastic release to base that assumption on, they got cheaper.

 Melissia wrote:
HisDivineShadow: Yes we get it, you hate everyone who doesn't drool over the RH style of minis.

Moving right along.

Anyone know of a copy of the codex preview that doesn't require me to download some gakky Apple program?

Yeah, I put it all up over on Talk Wargaming: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/10/news-codex-adepta-sororitas-preview-live.html

I think that they'll be cheaper. More in line with the Space Marine miniatures at USD40 for 10 models; USD50 at most.

 Bull0 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:


GW seems to only be raising prices on things that sell so fast they have trouble keeping up with production or things that are updates. Honestly unless Sisters cost $90USD for 10 they'll be cheaper than they are now.

Heck, even at $90 they'll still be cheaper since you'll have bits left over.

Oh yeah, sorry, maybe I didn't make that clear enough - I'm saying when it happens, I'm sure they'll be cheaper. We have the dark elf wych plastic release to base that assumption on, they got cheaper.

Wait, so admits all the complaints of Wyches being $60USD/Box they're cheaper now?

How am I not surprised?

Havik110 wrote:
they have plans to do "a Sisters type army"

Oh, I know. Seen the drawings. Still indifferent though. As I said, not interested in third-party stuff.

Havik110 wrote:
as they are a quadrupal kit...you can make battle sisters, celestians, retributors, and dominions....

Why would they have one kit make four units? At most, it seems that the occasional kit can make two different units. Just because we're using one set of models for lots of units now doesn't mean this will continue for the plastics.

Also, I'd be kinda disappointed with that. Seems lazy.

 AlexHolker wrote:
The Sisters of Battle have enough paladin to look good, while Raging Heroes concept art has more nun.

I agree. While wimples (did not know that was the name of the thing until now) do occasionally show up in SoB art, they're usually just on higher ranking Sisters. I wouldn't see regular Sisters wearing wimples at all, myself. At most, a Canoness or Palatine might wear one. And as I said earlier, I much prefer the space sallet over some cloth.

I like the Sabbat pattern helm far too much to put up with wimples, even on higher-ranking sororitas.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Wait, so admits all the complaints of Wyches being $60USD/Box they're cheaper now?

How am I not surprised?

Yeah, they were $66 on the US site for 10.

More info on BA:

via Sarah from Games Workshop: Digital Editions
Regarding a Blood Angels codex release
I can't give an exact date at the moment, but Blood Angels will be out later this month in iBooks, epub and mobi formats.

Updated with More Information
Games Workshop: Digital Editions
The Blood Angels book will only include Errata changes and things like hull points and unit types from the new edition. It won't have any new items, as that would make the print book out-of-date before its time. Sisters of battle don't have book at all the the moment, so we have a good deal more freedom to put cool new stuff in the codex.

- Eddie

I always thought they were called "habits" until I looked it up just now and saw that it's basically a fancy name for a kind of "uniform" worn by certain religious groups (simple robes, ect).

I'm not against the Wimple, I just imagine it'd make wearing a helmet even harder.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Wait, so admits all the complaints of Wyches being $60USD/Box they're cheaper now?

How am I not surprised?

Yeah, they were $66 on the US site for 10.

So they increased quality, bit count and can be made into an alternate unit instead AND went down in price?

This bodes well for Sisters then.

Also expect complaints about how much plastic Sisters cost upon the eventual release.

Oh, of course. GW could give out free puppies and BJs and people would still complain.

 ClockworkZion wrote:


Wait, so admits all the complaints of Wyches being $60USD/Box they're cheaper now?

How am I not surprised?

Pretty sure the old metal wyches must've been £20 for 5, and the new box is £35 for 10. Right?
*edit* NVM, you guys have it covered.

Call me overly optimistic (it'll be funny), but I still say plastic Sisters will be priced along the lines (if perhaps maybe ten dollars higher) of Space Marines due to GW's mentality. 40-50 USD for a squad of ten with bitz and etc.

 Bull0 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:


Wait, so admits all the complaints of Wyches being $60USD/Box they're cheaper now?

How am I not surprised?

Pretty sure the old metal wyches must've been £20 for 5, and the new box is £35 for 10. Right?
*edit* NVM, you guys have it covered.

EDIT: There was a bad sentence here, so let me clarify:

I was not aware of the price change, but with the amount of bitching about "how expensive they are" I'm guessing a lot of people aren't. I just choose to not bitch about prices and instead budget to buy things or look at different army list options.

Seriously internet, learn to spend more than 30 seconds on research next time!

 Melissia wrote:
Call me overly optimistic (it'll be funny), but I still say plastic Sisters will be priced along the lines (if perhaps maybe ten dollars higher) of Space Marines due to GW's mentality. 40-50 USD for a squad of ten with bitz and etc.

Maybe, yeah. Look at the Dark Eldar relaunch; those suckers were priced to move

This is a digital only supplement then?

I'd really like to know how far off a new range of models is. Certainly looking at the Dark Eldar, Dark Elves & and other releases seems to suggest that they've ironed out whatever "robe issue" was stopping them before.

 Medium of Death wrote:
This is a digital only supplement then?

Yes.

 Medium of Death wrote:
I'd really like to know how far off a new range of models is. Certainly looking at the Dark Eldar, Dark Elves & and other releases seems to suggest that they've ironed out whatever "robe issue" was stopping them before.

A year or so is my guess.

 Medium of Death wrote:
This is a digital only supplement then?

Codex, not a supplement. But yes, for the moment. Though Cruddace did say that it would "probably" get a hardback release if it sold well. Which I'm thinking it will.

 Medium of Death wrote:
I'd really like to know how far off a new range of models is.

Earliest estimate is late 2014. To quote an previous post ITT:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Before anyone lynches me for this, this is pure conjecture. I can't prove any of this, I'm just working out things logically.

We know a couple of things:

1. Everything in the front half of 2104 is essentially booked.
2. After June 2014 we'll have the following books remaining: Blood Angels, Dark Eldar, Space Wolves, Sisters, Necrons, Grey Knights. Now assuming 40k will continue to get an update every other month that means 3 more 40k books in 2014 and then 3 in 2015.

So what we know is that Marine armies are GW's "sure thing". This means they'll be using them to likely prop up the codexes they are less sure about.

Additionally the best time to launch a book you considering to be an exceptionally weak seller or are just not sure about would be right after the fiscal year starts, which for GW is June. This works out well because it also puts the weak seller before Christmas which means any sales you don't recoup are still covered by the holiday rush. So they may lose a little money but in the end they will still come out strong on their Investors reports which is a big deal for a company that is trying to maintain slow and steady growth.

So the best time to release Sisters is honestly late 2014 assuming their ready then. I also expect at least one of the Marine books about that time as well to help "prop up" sales too.

So yeah, if not then, sometime in 2015 I guess.

 Medium of Death wrote:
Certainly looking at the Dark Eldar, Dark Elves & and other releases seems to suggest that they've ironed out whatever "robe issue" was stopping them before.

And the fact that devs outright said that they're able to make them now, at Enter the Citadel.

 pretre wrote:
Oh, of course. GW could give out free puppies and BJs and people would still complain.

But I wanted different puppy! Something that is smaller and fluffier, more cat like!

Since all the Inquisitors got changed to Grey Space Marines with Friends, Sisters have become a lot more interesting and unique when compared to the rest of the forces of the Imperium.

I would love to have a small Sisters force as allies for my IG at some point, they are the only other interesting fighting force fighting for the Imperium other than the Imperial Guard and I honestly think that the current miniatures are beautiful, just a tad bit expensive, but eBay should be able to help with that.

I really do not care for the Raging Heroes miniatures, they are pretty much the embodiment of everything I dislike about miniatures. They look silly, and nowhere near warriors that could hold their own in combat, they rather look like, as someone have stated already, lingerie models playing soldiers on a photo shoot.
What I like about the Sisters miniatures, is that they fit the grimdark and gothic setting of 40K so well, and I especially like the Sisters with helmets.