BlaxicanX wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
This always happens in these threads. They talk about random effects and people decide to make leaps of logic rather then wait a for all the facts.

For all we know it could have one weapon profile and random secondary effects.

...

Or it could suck entirely! But maybe wait before bitching.

Quote the post(s) you're referring to.

Why would I want to waste another hour trawling through people complaining about random tables just to appease you? Get off that high horse already.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Get off that high horse already.

 Red Corsair wrote:
This always happens in these threads. They talk about random effects and people decide to make leaps of logic rather then wait a for all the facts.

...

Or it could suck entirely! But maybe wait before bitching.

Delicious.

Biggest issues with a Ctan shard;

1. Over costed
2. CC orientated unit that is slow
3. Tax on useless powers to take the Ctan

If he drops in points and/or becomes faster and/or they remove the powers tax I wouldn't care so much that powers are random.

I think it's safe to say the powers tax is gone with the random generation now.

I'd agree. That seems likely.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
Well a good story element does not equal a good game mechanic.

A mad star god that just does what he pleases is a cool story note.

Random attacks is not a good game mechanic.

Agreed

Helbrute just came to mind.

 Screaming Echo wrote:
I like to choose what ability I want to use when making my list.

Leaving things up to chance can screw you over, having total control over it won't.

It's honestly that simple.

So, I take it you don't play Psykers ?

 adamsouza wrote:

 Screaming Echo wrote:
I like to choose what ability I want to use when making my list.

Leaving things up to chance can screw you over, having total control over it won't.

It's honestly that simple.

So, I take it you don't play Psykers ?

Nope

 Screaming Echo wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

 Screaming Echo wrote:
I like to choose what ability I want to use when making my list.

Leaving things up to chance can screw you over, having total control over it won't.

It's honestly that simple.

So, I take it you don't play Psykers ?

Nope

Well, now you can add C'tans to the list of things you don't play

 adamsouza wrote:
Well, now you can add C'tans to the list of things you don't play

He can put them right next to the Veil of Darkness.

Well with people talking about the random roll this can just reinforce the use of the Shield of Baal formation with the C'tan shard and two Crypteks if they still get the same wargear get one with a chonomatron and now you have a re-roll for the C'tanshard's powers.

It isn't much but it gives a bit more control on it's powers.

 adamsouza wrote:

 Screaming Echo wrote:
I like to choose what ability I want to use when making my list.

Leaving things up to chance can screw you over, having total control over it won't.

It's honestly that simple.

So, I take it you don't play Psykers ?

The new and awesome random Psyker-table!
First you pick a unit, then you roll a D6 to determine the ability you actually cast.

You might throw an attack on your own units, or cast Invisibility on opponents, but at least it's cinematic and fluffy.

 Screaming Echo wrote:

bodazoka wrote:

 Screaming Echo wrote:
I like to choose what ability I want to use when making my list.

Leaving things up to chance can screw you over, having total control over it won't.

It's honestly that simple.

Nit picking but "total control" in a game of dice?

Total control of the options you bring, not their outcome during game.

well, you can control the fact that you add a C'Tan or not to your list

 nflagey wrote:

 Screaming Echo wrote:

bodazoka wrote:

 Screaming Echo wrote:
I like to choose what ability I want to use when making my list.

Leaving things up to chance can screw you over, having total control over it won't.

It's honestly that simple.

Nit picking but "total control" in a game of dice?

Total control of the options you bring, not their outcome during game.

well, you can control the fact that you add a C'Tan or not to your list

Plus only having one shooting attack for a T C'tan is a very big nerf, ontop of the randomness added to it. They better lower the price of him significantly.

Oberron wrote:
Well with people talking about the random roll this can just reinforce the use of the Shield of Baal formation with the C'tan shard and two Crypteks if they still get the same wargear get one with a chonomatron and now you have a re-roll for the C'tanshard's powers.

It isn't much but it gives a bit more control on it's powers.

Very good point this ^^

 pretre wrote:
Well, they just fixed the 'TC'tan is OP' problem.

Please pretre, teach us your language, where "fixed" in your language somehow translates back into English as "swung the pendulum hard".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Well, they just fixed the 'TC'tan is OP' problem.

Please pretre, teach us your language, where "fixed" in your language somehow translates back into English as "swung the pendulum hard".

To be fair, you "fix" a dog.

 drazz wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Well, they just fixed the 'TC'tan is OP' problem.

Please pretre, teach us your language, where "fixed" in your language somehow translates back into English as "swung the pendulum hard".

To be fair, you "fix" a dog.

I think this about covers it.

 drazz wrote:
To be fair, you "fix" a dog.

Hmm... a point I had not considered. Well played sir.

Why deal with balance issues when you can just add a random chart. It's a super easy way to deflect ones inability to write rules!

Damn them! I haven't been on in a bit and I see this! My wallet hasn't recovered from Blood Angels yet!!

 Kirasu wrote:
Why deal with balance issues when you can just add a random chart. It's a super easy way to deflect ones inability to write rules!

You forged the narrative took the words right out of my mouth.

Does anyone know what time pre-orders usually go up, specifically in Australia?

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
Does anyone know what time pre-orders usually go up, specifically in Australia?

6am AEST.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
Does anyone know what time pre-orders usually go up, specifically in Australia?

6am AEST.

Is that 6pm UK Time?

 Anpu-adom wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
Does anyone know what time pre-orders usually go up, specifically in Australia?

6am AEST.

Is that 6pm UK Time?

7pm UK time

 BlaxicanX wrote:

That's all well and good, but not really relevant to the discussion. You think random mechanics are cool? Good for you, I'm not trying to convert you to my ideas for what counts as good or bad game design. What I'm saying is that a mechanic "being fluffy" does not justify its existence. Many aspects of the 40K table-top game are not 1:1 to the fluff, and that's because 40K TT is an abstraction and the representation of the lore has to be balanced with functional, fair game mechanics. Ergo, quoting someone who says "I don't like X mechanic" and saying "but it's supported by the fluff" strikes me as nonsensical.

The example of the dreadnought above highlights that having something be 1:1 to the fluff isn't necessarily a great idea. A single dreadnought or tactical squad eating half your army may be "fluffy", but many people wouldn't consider that fun or fair, as evidenced by the mass concern people have with LoW's in regular games.

Actually, for a game such as 40k, fluff is the primary reason for a mechanic or rule to exist. Reanimation Protocols exists because of the fluff. They Shall Know No Fear exists because of the fluff. Warp Storm exists because of the fluff....I could go on for several paragraphs, but you should be able to see my point. Every 40k game mechanic that is unique to an army is based on that army's fluff.

Your example of the heroic dreadnaught is flawed, because that is a one-off " story time" fluff piece and not a general description of the unit in question, where as the C'Tan shards are described in general as unwilling slaves.

If you decide to put an enslaved Star God on the battlefield, blame yourselves if he acts randomly and you can't control his powers. If you want to avoid this, you can always choose not to enslave a Star God =)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
Does anyone know what time pre-orders usually go up, specifically in Australia?

6am AEST.

Is it today or next firday the pre-orders go up ?

I refuse to buy my codexes direct from GW anymore, but Necron Dice and Datacards hard to ensure from another source.

Tonight/Saturday.

Hey, I got this from warseer:

Quote Originally Posted by antaonix View Post
I got some news from my source. I translate it to english. "reanimation protocol now activates like Fantasy's ward save. if you failed a Armor save or cannot make armor save, you immediately make a reanimation protocol roll. It still 5+."
"Also, resurrection orb is now one use only. If you use it, you can reroll current phase's protocol." "Doom scythe's Death ray changed to S10 ap1 Small template Weapon." "If you wanna know more things about necron, buy codex and check."

Other thing he said was about the Harlequin, like this "Harlequin's kiss, Harlequin's hugg. Do you wanna join it?"

That sounds very unpleasing to me; at least on first reaction-reflex.

Again, will take anything from Warseer with a pinch of salt.

 adamsouza wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
Does anyone know what time pre-orders usually go up, specifically in Australia?

6am AEST.

Is it today or next firday the pre-orders go up ?

I refuse to buy my codexes direct from GW anymore, but Necron Dice and Datacards hard to ensure from another source.

Pre-orders are today. They should appear on the GW site at 1pm Central today... give or take and hour.
Support your FLGS as much as you can, but GW is making that hard with the creation of so many web exclusives.
Was I blind, or did I some how miss seeing the dice on the product list?

I don't remember seeing any dice either, closest thing I can think of are the 6 metal objective markers you get with the Cryptek edition.

No dice listed, just Datacards.

Independents should get allocated Datacards as they're not generally a web exclusive...and this is 40k, not Fantasy. The cards and dice are just what is referred to as a "Splash Release".

 Kanluwen wrote:
No dice listed, just Datacards.

Independents should get allocated Datacards as they're not generally a web exclusive...and this is 40k, not Fantasy. The cards and dice are just what is referred to as a "Splash Release".

so, we cannot get the datacards from independent stores?

No, you SHOULD be able to.

If you want to be guaranteed to get them? Ask your independent if they're getting them. If not, have the independent order them for you.

 Kanluwen wrote:
No, you SHOULD be able to.

If you want to be guaranteed to get them? Ask your independent if they're getting them. If not, have the independent order them for you.

Thank you.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Actually, for a game such as 40k, fluff is the primary reason for a mechanic or rule to exist. Reanimation Protocols exists because of the fluff. They Shall Know No Fear exists because of the fluff. Warp Storm exists because of the fluff....I could go on for several paragraphs, but you should be able to see my point. Every 40k game mechanic that is unique to an army is based on that army's fluff.

Your example of the heroic dreadnaught is flawed, because that is a one-off " story time" fluff piece and not a general description of the unit in question, where as the C'Tan shards are described in general as unwilling slaves.

So actually we should put in a rule where C'tans choose the best attack for the situation, even when the player wants to use a sub-optimal power.
Unless you are saying that these Star Gods are dumb?

Kangodo wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Actually, for a game such as 40k, fluff is the primary reason for a mechanic or rule to exist. Reanimation Protocols exists because of the fluff. They Shall Know No Fear exists because of the fluff. Warp Storm exists because of the fluff....I could go on for several paragraphs, but you should be able to see my point. Every 40k game mechanic that is unique to an army is based on that army's fluff.

Your example of the heroic dreadnaught is flawed, because that is a one-off " story time" fluff piece and not a general description of the unit in question, where as the C'Tan shards are described in general as unwilling slaves.

So actually we should put in a rule where C'tans choose the best attack for the situation, even when the player wants to use a sub-optimal power.
Unless you are saying that these Star Gods are dumb?

Well, obviously they are or they wouldn't be enslaved star gods.

Didn't see this one on here yet:

 agnosto wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Actually, for a game such as 40k, fluff is the primary reason for a mechanic or rule to exist. Reanimation Protocols exists because of the fluff. They Shall Know No Fear exists because of the fluff. Warp Storm exists because of the fluff....I could go on for several paragraphs, but you should be able to see my point. Every 40k game mechanic that is unique to an army is based on that army's fluff.

Your example of the heroic dreadnaught is flawed, because that is a one-off " story time" fluff piece and not a general description of the unit in question, where as the C'Tan shards are described in general as unwilling slaves.

So actually we should put in a rule where C'tans choose the best attack for the situation, even when the player wants to use a sub-optimal power.
Unless you are saying that these Star Gods are dumb?

Well, obviously they are or they wouldn't be enslaved star gods.

There's no protection against the mind of a 14 year old stuck in the body of a middle-aged writer!

"The only way to make this even more devastating is to check out the bonus they get if they are part of a decursion Detachment"

Does this mean that all the units get Relentless, MTC, re-roll 1's on RP AND something else....? Depending if that's the case this detatchment might be pretty sweet after all.

"Everyone Wins?"

What is this gak.

 Desubot wrote:
"Everyone Wins?"

What is this gak.

They've been saying that gak forever. There're loads of WD articles about the best games are when noone "wins" and so on.

But they are correct.
Old: Formations and standard Detachments.
New: Formations, Detachments ánd Decurion-style.

So everybody wins.

I'll tell you this: Move through cover, coupled with Rerolling 1's on RP makes the decurion not terrible. And, if you have a CC Overlord supporting a unit, Relentless isn't too bad.

Dunno if I'll bite though. I prefer more freedom in building my army. We'll see.

Haha, if I can use Zhandrekh to give 20 Warriors Furious Charge then I am totally going to charge with them

Kangodo wrote:But they are correct.
Old: Formations and standard Detachments.
New: Formations, Detachments ánd Decurion-style.

So everybody wins.

Cue the Psy remix....
Op, op, op op
Oppa Decurion-style

But yes.. it sounds that each attachment within the Decurion Detachment will have special rules of their own, on top to the detachment wide rules.

Every formation having their own rules could be pretty amazing actually. I'm not sure how I feel about them turning Necrons into a ground slogging army but if the formation rules are good, I am down with it. It's still a pretty heavy tax to pay having to take four units I might not otherwise take to get it though. If they keep tomb blades to units of one for 20pts, that's not terrible. If they keep warriors and immortals to units of five, that isn't terrible either. It looks like all the formations are 0+ so I should be able to take as many of the formations of the same type that I can afford in whatever points I am playing. Tax would only be 235 to get all of those units at the bare minimum. It's good to have units to take objectives anyway.

I guess we just need to wait a week and see what happens.

And they're up as of 2:10 EST...earlier than usual.

Cryptek Edition Ordered.

Gah, my browser won't even load GW.

Just a thought, that new Necron FoC Formation thing has compulsary tomb blades along with Immortals and Warriors, given that both the latter two are troops could that potentially indicate a shift of tomb blades to the troops section?

 Kanluwen wrote:
And they're up as of 2:10 EST...earlier than usual.

Yay!

Got special edition codex, C'tan cards, new overlord model and white dwarf issue.

...And now we wait.

WOOT got mine ordered and on the way, along side the new lord (: now its having patients...

NOTE: WORDING FROM NECRON CARDS

This set of Datacards contains 7 large-format cards detailing the Powers of the C’tan, the psychic powers from Codex: Necrons. There are 6 powers on individual cards and the seventh card explains how to use them. Also included is a full set of 36 Tactical Objectives cards, including the 6 unique Necrons Tactical Objectives from Codex: Necrons.

Unknown if this is just a comparison or if C'tan are legitimately psykers now.

Requizen wrote:
Unknown if this is just a comparison or if C'tan are legitimately psykers now.

... or if GW just screwed up the description on the web store.

Codex: Necrons Cryptek Edition is online for preorder. 1000 individually numbered copies with codex, 22 datasheets, 6 objective markers (metal), and double-sided poster.

It will be gone in a few minutes, so get it now if you want it.

$200 Canadian.

I..I...this better be a typ or bad writing aka a "replacement" for psychic powers for Necrons. C'tan having a sudden link to the Warp would be one of the most stupid things ever written and show a complete misunderstanding...or total lack thereof...of the fluff.

All the rumor seem to be on the formations and C'tan. What I'm really curious about is the unit changes.

Did Flayed Ones, Praetorians, or Lychguard, get any better ?

Did MSS get nerfed ?

Do Anhilation Barges cost more ?

Did the rules for Catacomb Command Barges change ?

Talys wrote:
Codex: Necrons Cryptek Edition is online for preorder. 1000 individually numbered copies with codex, 22 datasheets, 6 objective markers (metal), and double-sided poster.

It will be gone in a few minutes, so get it now if you want it.

$200 Canadian.

Cryptek edition is completely not worth it imo. Datasheets are just copies of pages already in the book, so you're paying ~$115 more (USD) for a poster, 6 coins, and slight convenience.

I guess that might be worth it for a real collector, but I honestly can't justify that to myself, even though Necrons are my favorite army in the 40k verse.

Requizen wrote:

Talys wrote:
Codex: Necrons Cryptek Edition is online for preorder. 1000 individually numbered copies with codex, 22 datasheets, 6 objective markers (metal), and double-sided poster.

It will be gone in a few minutes, so get it now if you want it.

$200 Canadian.

Cryptek edition is completely not worth it imo. Datasheets are just copies of pages already in the book, so you're paying ~$115 more (USD) for a poster, 6 coins, and slight convenience.

I guess that might be worth it for a real collector, but I honestly can't justify that to myself, even though Necrons are my favorite army in the 40k verse.

Same here... if there was something really cool - like a unique model or terrain or something...
The fancy cover isn't worth it personally.

 Sigvatr wrote:
I..I...this better be a typ or bad writing aka a "replacement" for psychic powers for Necrons. C'tan having a sudden link to the Warp would be one of the most stupid things ever written and show a complete misunderstanding...or total lack thereof...of the fluff.

It might simply be that they 'count as' Psyker powers or something to that effect.

Talys wrote:
Codex: Necrons Cryptek Edition is online for preorder. 1000 individually numbered copies with codex, 22 datasheets, 6 objective markers (metal), and double-sided poster.

It will be gone in a few minutes, so get it now if you want it.

$200 Canadian.

$200. Ouch. It would be nice to get but not for that price. For a few bucks more you can get a bunch of Necron minis in the box set.

From the iTunes preview:



240 for the Deceiver Shard (both are listed separately, wonder what that brings), and it still Elite. Also note that list of Elite options is exactly the same (except for the C'tan split), so no Immortals in there or Flayed Ones troops.

Hmm. On the Tomb Awakened page, it shows the new Overlord model in the individual pictures of what's in it, but on the box it's not shown. Just a mistake on the site?

What do people think of that new Overlord model?

It looks quite nice to me, but £17 seems a bit excessive.

 vipoid wrote:
What do people think of that new Overlord model?

It looks quite nice to me, but £17 seems a bit excessive.

I very much like it, but it is pricey. But then, when a Skaven character (on a 20mm square base) is £13.50, I dunno what I expected.

Does anyone remember when Codex releases used to be exciting?

The Codex and one new HQ plastic.... Please, someone hold me down.

 Flashman wrote:
Does anyone remember when Codex releases used to be exciting?

The Codex and one new HQ plastic.... Please someone, hold me down.

Mm I know. But Codex: Harlequins (probably like 4/5 units...) has at least 2 weeks of releases if the rumours are true.

 Flashman wrote:
Does anyone remember when Codex releases used to be exciting?

The Codex and one new HQ plastic.... Please someone, hold me down.

 vipoid wrote:
What do people think of that new Overlord model?

It looks quite nice to me, but £17 seems a bit excessive.

It's not worth it - to my inexperienced eye, at least. For a similar price you can get the Barge kit, and there isn't much difference between clampack and Barge overlords.

 Flashman wrote:
Does anyone remember when Codex releases used to be exciting?

The Codex and one new HQ plastic.... Please, someone hold me down.

In fairness though, the next few weeks will also feature more plastic.

Talys wrote:

 Flashman wrote:
Does anyone remember when Codex releases used to be exciting?

The Codex and one new HQ plastic.... Please, someone hold me down.

In fairness though, the next few weeks will also feature more plastic.

Not for Necrons.

Requizen wrote:

Talys wrote:
Codex: Necrons Cryptek Edition is online for preorder. 1000 individually numbered copies with codex, 22 datasheets, 6 objective markers (metal), and double-sided poster.

It will be gone in a few minutes, so get it now if you want it.

$200 Canadian.

Cryptek edition is completely not worth it imo. Datasheets are just copies of pages already in the book, so you're paying ~$115 more (USD) for a poster, 6 coins, and slight convenience.

I guess that might be worth it for a real collector, but I honestly can't justify that to myself, even though Necrons are my favorite army in the 40k verse.

Indeed. My collection of datasheets cost me the effort of hitting the copy button

Those metal markers are surely worth $75, though, right? . Personally, I think all the LE books are nuts, but hey.

Melcavuk wrote:Just a thought, that new Necron FoC Formation thing has compulsary tomb blades along with Immortals and Warriors, given that both the latter two are troops could that potentially indicate a shift of tomb blades to the troops section?

I thought of that, but it would spoil the symmetry of having 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy Support available in the core.

Seems like there are a couple of famous "One-Click" bundles coming as well.

The Necron Dynasty web bundle contains 90 Citadel miniatures, including: 1 Necron Overlord, 40 Necron Warriors, 20 Immortals, 10 Canoptek Scarab Swarms, 2 Ghost Arks, 5 Lychguard, 1Triarch Stalker, 3 Canoptek Wraiths, 1 Annihilation Barge, 3 Tomb Blades, 2 Night Scythes and 2 Monoliths For $707.25... would be $813 if you could buy it separately (stupid 3 and 1/3 boxes of warriors) You'd save over $100... not bad.

The Reclamation Legion contains 44 Citadel miniatures, including: 1 Necron Overlord, 5 Lychguard, 10 Immortals, 24 Necron Warriors, 3 Tomb Blades and 1 Monolith. For $306.75... no savings over separate.

I'll be buying all of my stuff from my FLGS. Pre-ordered the codex and the cards there.

 ImAGeek wrote:


Not for Necrons.

I don't follow or collect necrons, so I didn't know this. I'm surprised!

Talys wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Talys wrote:
Codex: Necrons Cryptek Edition is online for preorder. 1000 individually numbered copies with codex, 22 datasheets, 6 objective markers (metal), and double-sided poster.

It will be gone in a few minutes, so get it now if you want it.

$200 Canadian.

Cryptek edition is completely not worth it imo. Datasheets are just copies of pages already in the book, so you're paying ~$115 more (USD) for a poster, 6 coins, and slight convenience.

I guess that might be worth it for a real collector, but I honestly can't justify that to myself, even though Necrons are my favorite army in the 40k verse.

Indeed. My collection of datasheets cost me the effort of hitting the copy button

Those metal markers are surely worth $75, though, right? . Personally, I think all the LE books are nuts, but hey.

They better be REALLY shiny...

 skybax wrote:

It's not worth it - to my inexperienced eye, at least. For a similar price you can get the Barge kit, and there isn't much difference between clampack and Barge overlords.

Yeah, it looks more like GW seeing what they can get away with.

The main problem for me is that the model just doesn't 'wow' me in any way. There's just nothing about it that seems at all spectacular. Or even particularly interesting.

Talys wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:


Not for Necrons.

I don't follow or collect necrons, so I didn't know this. I'm surprised!

Yeah. Harlequins for at least the next two weeks.

Requizen wrote:
From the iTunes preview:



240 for the Deceiver Shard (both are listed separately, wonder what that brings), and it still Elite. Also note that list of Elite options is exactly the same (except for the C'tan split), so no Immortals in there or Flayed Ones troops.

Thank you for sharing. 240 points is a nice chunk more expensive than a naked Shard, I'm wondering what they've baked in to their profiles to account for that. Hopefully it's not just the random shooting.

Drakmord wrote:

Requizen wrote:
From the iTunes preview:



240 for the Deceiver Shard (both are listed separately, wonder what that brings), and it still Elite. Also note that list of Elite options is exactly the same (except for the C'tan split), so no Immortals in there or Flayed Ones troops.

Thank you for sharing. 240 points is a nice chunk more expensive than a naked Shard, I'm wondering what they've baked in to their profiles to account for that. Hopefully it's not just the random shooting.

More likely, since Tran C'tan were overpowered, they nerfed the shards. It's a standard GW "balancing" tactic.

 Flashman wrote:
Does anyone remember when Codex releases used to be exciting?

The Codex and one new HQ plastic.... Please, someone hold me down.

I think we should expect this to be close to the norm now. They want to get the initial book out.
New models and units will be introduced down the road in supplements like we just saw with Tyranids.
That's my expectation now anyway.

 Anpu-adom wrote:


The Reclamation Legion contains 44 Citadel miniatures, including: 1 Necron Overlord, 5 Lychguard, 10 Immortals, 24 Necron Warriors, 3 Tomb Blades and 1 Monolith. For $306.75... no savings over separate.

HAHA called that one about 10 pages ago

As a Warhammer fantasy player I used to think I was getting shafted by the price of clam packs.. Thank you 40k players!

But seriously the Putrid Blightkings were only $55 for 5 models and a slew of extra bits. How does this make sense...

 keltikhoa wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:


The Reclamation Legion contains 44 Citadel miniatures, including: 1 Necron Overlord, 5 Lychguard, 10 Immortals, 24 Necron Warriors, 3 Tomb Blades and 1 Monolith. For $306.75... no savings over separate.

HAHA called that one about 10 pages ago

Why get so excited or act like it's some big deal that you were right?
None of the "web bundles" have given savings.

It's only the items which get an actual box and shelf space at the stores which have given savings.

Requizen wrote:
From the iTunes preview:



240 for the Deceiver Shard (both are listed separately, wonder what that brings), and it still Elite. Also note that list of Elite options is exactly the same (except for the C'tan split), so no Immortals in there or Flayed Ones troops.

The picture is of Nightbringer, who was always the more intimidating of the two named C'Tan models. If they restored some of his unique power (he used to be a beast in combat), then the 240 point cost is probably justified.

 vipoid wrote:

 skybax wrote:

It's not worth it - to my inexperienced eye, at least. For a similar price you can get the Barge kit, and there isn't much difference between clampack and Barge overlords.

Yeah, it looks more like GW seeing what they can get away with.

The main problem for me is that the model just doesn't 'wow' me in any way. There's just nothing about it that seems at all spectacular. Or even particularly interesting.

If you like the weird way is legs are spread, the glowing chubby stump crotch thrust (wiggle, wiggle wiggle, wiggle, yeah) and the general design that looks like re-purposed bits then it is totally awesome! The Overlord response shows how starved people are for more Necron models...

I ordered the Limited Edition Codex and data cards but on the model front I am hoping for better Destroyer packaging/options and an upgrade to Praetorians so I can build more and run them as they are currently my favorite looking model that does not see much play.

Drakmord wrote:

Requizen wrote:
From the iTunes preview:



240 for the Deceiver Shard (both are listed separately, wonder what that brings), and it still Elite. Also note that list of Elite options is exactly the same (except for the C'tan split), so no Immortals in there or Flayed Ones troops.

Thank you for sharing. 240 points is a nice chunk more expensive than a naked Shard, I'm wondering what they've baked in to their profiles to account for that. Hopefully it's not just the random shooting.

Not that much more expensive - a base Shard (Entropic Touch + Lord of Fire) is 205. Knowing that they have a "shooting attack" now and probably have a baked in abilities based on the Shard, 240 would be about right for the current C'tan. If they gain a boost and the baked in powers are good (and the shooting attack isn't as bad as we think), then 240 will be very reasonable imo.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 keltikhoa wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:


The Reclamation Legion contains 44 Citadel miniatures, including: 1 Necron Overlord, 5 Lychguard, 10 Immortals, 24 Necron Warriors, 3 Tomb Blades and 1 Monolith. For $306.75... no savings over separate.

HAHA called that one about 10 pages ago

Why get so excited or act like it's some big deal that you were right?
None of the "web bundles" have given savings.

It's only the items which get an actual box and shelf space at the stores which have given savings.

I think he meant he called what was in it.

240 points base?

Hopefully the new shards will be good - and actually playtested.

Just for reference:
Dreadknight - 130 base
Wriathknight - 240 base.
Riptide - 220 normal build.

As a person who played a lot with and AGAINST Ctan shards, their biggest weakness is not their anemic attacks (they were a joke, s4 ap4? really?) but their poor save.

The have only a 4++. That sounds great when coupled with a 2+ or 3+ normal, but its just 4, thats 50%.
I see shards go down easily just because of the poor save.

I hope the new Ctan are good, but not OP.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone notice this VERY INTERESTING snippet from the Reclamation legion bundle...

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Reclamation-Legion-Web-Bundle

It is also supplied with four 40mm round bases, three small flying bases, and thirty-nine 25mm round bases and forty 32mm round bases to give you the choice of how you want to base your miniatures.

Fascinating.

I think that answers a lot of questions people had...

That's pretty awesome of them, actually.

Is anyone else really excited about getting the Deciever and Nightbringer back, I know I am.

davethepak wrote:
240 points base?

Hopefully the new shards will be good - and actually playtested.

Just for reference:
Dreadknight - 130 base
Wriathknight - 240 base.
Riptide - 220 normal build.

As a person who played a lot with and AGAINST Ctan shards, their biggest weakness is not their anemic attacks (they were a joke, s4 ap4? really?) but their poor save.

The have only a 4++. That sounds great when coupled with a 2+ or 3+ normal, but its just 4, thats 50%.
I see shards go down easily just because of the poor save.

I hope the new Ctan are good, but not OP.

But they are T7, which is a big advantage compared to the majority of most MCs. If they have some of the close combat powers baked in, they are worth it. A better comparison is against Greater Daemons, as they too only have an invulnerable save and no stock ranged firepower (except for Khorne).

The biggest problem has been their mobility. If they get moved up to Jump MC, then they become much more useful and actually a bargain if the random powers are decent.

Hollismason wrote:
Is anyone else really excited about getting the Deciever and Nightbringer back, I know I am.

Not getting them back though. The Deceiver e.g. was a pretty unique model with a strong connection between fluff and rules. Chances that this is coming back: 0.

His powers are random. He's not the deceiver I know.
I am disappoint.

 Tokhuah wrote:

If you like the weird way is legs are spread, the glowing chubby stump crotch thrust (wiggle, wiggle wiggle, wiggle, yeah) and the general design that looks like re-purposed bits then it is totally awesome! The Overlord response shows how starved people are for more Necron models...

Yeah, the more I look at it the more I dislike it.

- That headgear just looks... weird. it almost looks like someone decided to add steampunk elements to them (is he wearing half a gear...? ).

- Why has his scythe got two holes in it? Did Tom and Jerry jump up and bang their heads on it?

- Why is he holding his scythe the wrong way round? Is he going to try hitting his enemies with the blunt end?

- He looks like he's straining far too hard to make that pose. Is his left leg glued to the ground?

- Is that a laser-codpiece? O_o

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
His powers are random.

And like that you've lost me.

Hey, I know I always wanted to have something to do in the psychic phase and maybe now i do. I'm pretty stoked.

 vipoid wrote:

 Tokhuah wrote:

If you like the weird way is legs are spread, the glowing chubby stump crotch thrust (wiggle, wiggle wiggle, wiggle, yeah) and the general design that looks like re-purposed bits then it is totally awesome! The Overlord response shows how starved people are for more Necron models...

Yeah, the more I look at it the more I dislike it.

- That headgear just looks... weird. it almost looks like someone decided to add steampunk elements to them (is he wearing half a gear...? ).

- Why has his scythe got two holes in it? Did Tom and Jerry jump up and bang their heads on it?

- Why is he holding his scythe the wrong way round? Is he going to try hitting his enemies with the blunt end?

- He looks like he's straining far too hard to make that pose. Is his left leg glued to the ground?

- Is that a laser-codpiece? O_o

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
His powers are random.

And like that you've lost me.

All C'tan powers are rolled randomly from turn to turn, after you choose your target. According to the WD leak.

 vipoid wrote:

 Tokhuah wrote:

If you like the weird way is legs are spread, the glowing chubby stump crotch thrust (wiggle, wiggle wiggle, wiggle, yeah) and the general design that looks like re-purposed bits then it is totally awesome! The Overlord response shows how starved people are for more Necron models...

Yeah, the more I look at it the more I dislike it.

- That headgear just looks... weird. it almost looks like someone decided to add steampunk elements to them (is he wearing half a gear...? ).

- Why has his scythe got two holes in it? Did Tom and Jerry jump up and bang their heads on it?

- Why is he holding his scythe the wrong way round? Is he going to try hitting his enemies with the blunt end?

- He looks like he's straining far too hard to make that pose. Is his left leg glued to the ground?

- Is that a laser-codpiece? O_o

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
His powers are random.

And like that you've lost me.

The C'tan did not have random powers in the 3rd ed book.
In fact, when I think C'tan, I certainly do not think random. I don't care how capricious they are, its just not right.
Doesn't help the pace of the game either; there are already too many random tables in the game, they didn't need to add more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NakedSeamus wrote:
Hey, I know I always wanted to have something to do in the psychic phase and maybe now i do. I'm pretty stoked.

They only thing a necron should do in the psychic phase is shut it down.

 docdoom77 wrote:

All C'tan powers are rolled randomly from turn to turn, after you choose your target. According to the WD leak.

Oh joy. If there's one thing the game is really missing right now, it's rolling on random tables for things.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

The C'tan did not have random powers in the 3rd ed book.
In fact, when I think C'tan, I certainly do not think random. I don't care how capricious they are, its just not right.
Doesn't help the pace of the game either; there are already too many random tables in the game, they didn't need to add more.

Oh, I entirely agree.

When I said you'd lost me, I meant that particular titbit has lost any interest I had in the new C'tan.

I don't currently own the models, and it seems GW has no interest in selling me any - otherwise they wouldn't pull this kind of crap.

We don't know what the random effects are.

Smart people could come up with random powers that are all good in a variety of situations, just maybe a bit ....different.

Of course, these are the same game designers that think I should get excited about relentless for my necron warriors that have no heavy weapons.

Regarding the ctan - T7 is worthless with a 4++ save.
It just is. In a world of wave serpents, tau missile launchers, grav amps, autocannon dreds, or heck, just plasma - a 4++ save is incredibly bad at 240 points.

A t7 model with a 2/4++ or 3/4++ - not bad.

However, we have no idea what they will actually have - I was merely giving input on past actual experience comparing to the new point cost. I hope they are good.

davethepak wrote:


Of course, these are the same game designers that think I should get excited about relentless for my necron warriors that have no heavy weapons.

Actually, they addressed the fact that necrons tend not to have heavy weapons. They said that relentless units may charge after rapid firing.
Which is fair. A bit atypical, but necrons didn't really have those sort of tools before.

Who says it has random powers, seriously. You may just randomly pick a certain number of powers at the beginning of the game.

Who knows!! We don't!

Hollismason wrote:
Who says it has random powers, seriously. You may just randomly pick a certain number of powers at the beginning of the game.

Who knows!! We don't!

Here



In the shooting phase, pick a target and roll a die.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Who says it has random powers, seriously. You may just randomly pick a certain number of powers at the beginning of the game.

Who knows!! We don't!

Here


In the shooting phase, pick a target and roll a die.

Ninja'd!

Talys wrote:
Codex: Necrons Cryptek Edition is online for preorder. 1000 individually numbered copies with codex, 22 datasheets, 6 objective markers (metal), and double-sided poster.

It will be gone in a few minutes, so get it now if you want it.

$200 Canadian.

Have been up for awhile now.

Well, grabbed my Cryptek Edition.

I'm really surprised we haven't seen more from the rules yet, with the release only a week out. They've kept a tight lid on that portion.

Looks like Lords of Wargaming has been on the money so far. Plastic Lord, codex release date were on the money. The Decurion looks to be the Dynasty tactics that was spoken of.

Ah okay well that sucks and I can understand the bitching, but hey NIGHT BRINGER AND THE DECIEVER!

Hollismason wrote:
Ah okay well that sucks and I can understand the bitching, but hey NIGHT BRINGER AND THE DECIEVER!

All this means is that they took away the option of making your own Shard. There's just the three official models, end of story. Screw you guys with your scratch built Dragon shards.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Tokhuah wrote:

If you like the weird way is legs are spread, the glowing chubby stump crotch thrust (wiggle, wiggle wiggle, wiggle, yeah) and the general design that looks like re-purposed bits then it is totally awesome! The Overlord response shows how starved people are for more Necron models...

Yeah, the more I look at it the more I dislike it.

- That headgear just looks... weird. it almost looks like someone decided to add steampunk elements to them (is he wearing half a gear...? ).

- Why has his scythe got two holes in it? Did Tom and Jerry jump up and bang their heads on it?

- Why is he holding his scythe the wrong way round? Is he going to try hitting his enemies with the blunt end?

- He looks like he's straining far too hard to make that pose. Is his left leg glued to the ground?

- Is that a laser-codpiece? O_o

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
His powers are random.

And like that you've lost me.

The C'tan did not have random powers in the 3rd ed book.
In fact, when I think C'tan, I certainly do not think random. I don't care how capricious they are, its just not right.
Doesn't help the pace of the game either; there are already too many random tables in the game, they didn't need to add more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NakedSeamus wrote:
Hey, I know I always wanted to have something to do in the psychic phase and maybe now i do. I'm pretty stoked.

They only thing a necron should do in the psychic phase is shut it down.

That's your opinion :-P

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Ah okay well that sucks and I can understand the bitching, but hey NIGHT BRINGER AND THE DECIEVER!

All this means is that they took away the option of making your own Shard. There's just the three official models, end of story. Screw you guys with your scratch built Dragon shards.

I guess they got tired of players using the old metal C'tans instead of buying a vault and using the tiny plastic C'tan.

Nightbringer model as T. C'tan > plastic T. C'tan

davethepak wrote:
We don't know what the random effects are.

Regarding the ctan - T7 is worthless with a 4++ save.
It just is. In a world of wave serpents, tau missile launchers, grav amps, autocannon dreds, or heck, just plasma - a 4++ save is incredibly bad at 240 points.

A t7 model with a 2/4++ or 3/4++ - not bad.

However, we have no idea what they will actually have - I was merely giving input on past actual experience comparing to the new point cost. I hope they are good.

Funny you should mention grav amps since they do almost nothing (wound on 6+) to you if you don't have an armor save...but in your example of what they 'should' have they become wounded on a 2+ or 3+ and still won't get that armor save...

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Actually, for a game such as 40k, fluff is the primary reason for a mechanic or rule to exist. Reanimation Protocols exists because of the fluff. They Shall Know No Fear exists because of the fluff. Warp Storm exists because of the fluff....I could go on for several paragraphs, but you should be able to see my point. Every 40k game mechanic that is unique to an army is based on that army's fluff.

Your example of the heroic dreadnaught is flawed, because that is a one-off " story time" fluff piece and not a general description of the unit in question, where as the C'Tan shards are described in general as unwilling slaves.

Not quite, there's a difference between a concept and a game mechanic. Using your example, animation protocols is a concept, whereas the game mechanic (which is the TT abstraction of that concept) is fallen models getting back up on a d6 result. The fluff justifies the existence of the concept, but it doesn't justify the existence of the mechanic that brings that concept to life. The game mechanic that actually represents RP has changed multiple times, for example, and may even change to simple FnP this edition.

Similarly, the C'Tan being crazy and disobeying its masters' orders may be a fluff concept, but there are a number of different mechanics one can use to go about representing that concept, random powers being just one of them.

I don't get what your point is regarding the dreadnought example. A) No fluff is "more valid" then others, regardless of how frequent its been thrown around. B) You're missing the forest for the trees- you can replace the dreadnought with space marines, which have frequently been shown defeating armies that outnumber them dozens to one, and my point remains the same. Just because a mechanic may be "fluffy" doesn't mean that it belongs in a game.

The really sad thing is, if it had been the other way around (roll for C'tan power THEN pick target) it would have been a hell of a lot more versatile.
With the way it's going now, you could choose a Landraider, roll, and end up getting a power with S8 AP3... oh boy, that's some delicious forged narrative right there.
>:[

Better forge a letter showing your distaste for the situation

maybe on a roll of a 6 they will give a damn

Geez people the codex is out (in a warehouse somewhere) now get on the leaked pages all ready!!

^ Heh

Regarding the C'tan, I'm still holding out hope for the duel-profiles before I declare total doom n' gloom. It's possible that GW integrated the alternate-attack after accounting for the fact that there's a wide variety targets out there that require specific kinds of attacks to deal with.

But, we'll see.

Just got the White dwarf:

Interesting that the Decurion shows how GW thinks the Necrons should be played.
"...Even the smallest Decurion is a significant strike force, with around 30 necrons within the reclamation legion and a lesser ancillary unit of five Deathmarks or Flayed ones - ideal for smaller missions, where overwhelming strength is neither required or appropriate.

So per GW, the correct way to play Necrons is to foot slog around in a horde infantry army because bringing serious firepower to a battle is inappropriate.

Interesting on page 11 " The necron range offers a host of extra kits to support this sturdy core of your army. Monoliths provide transport for your warriors..."
If they are referring to the dimensional corridor then any non-vehicle would apply and not just warriors.
Monolith as a transport?
That would make monolith's interesting.
AV14 deep strike with 20 warriors.
With gauss that should let you kill a vehicle before you get locked up and killed in CC next turn.

Also Page 20:
"Enhanced Reanimation Protocols: this is the golden bonus ......reroll 1's....."
Now either I know something he doesn't, specifically, how the current game is played, or he knows something I don't.
Today, this golden bonus add a 5% chance to RP restricted to within 12" of OL. (1/6*2/6= 5.5%)
Not quite worthless in the current codex but its pretty close.
Surely, this guy isn't just talking out of his rear orifice.

So what would the RP need to be to make this 'golden'?
Maybe RP is a D3 roll and on a value of 1 you get to reroll again.
That would be 'golden'.
If its 5+ FNP then this is basically provides little to no benefit but carries a rather large restriction to sticking within 12" of OL.
It makes me really worried to think it really is reroll 1's on a 5+ and in the new codex this is legitimately 'golden', as in, the other benefits in the codex are less than this.
On the other hand, he thinks the RP benefit is golden but just thinks the move through cover is only good in comparison.
Maybe, he just has no clue.

AND This game mechanic seems purposely designed to guide players into huddling their troops up to get this 'golden' benefit.
I would point out that this makes it so that they are easier to kill by pie plate or let some CC deathstar wipe them out.
This would appear to put a dampener on 5 warriors in a scythe.
On the other hand, if it is only 1's on 5+ then it won't matter either way.

Gunther wrote:
Just got the White dwarf:
Surely, this guy isn't just talking out of his rear orifice.

So what would the RP need to be to make this 'golden'?

Im sure its coming out of his front orifice all over necron players hopes and dreams

But yeah 100% its just a sales department saying a whole lot of nothing.

Gunther wrote:
Just got the White dwarf:

Interesting that the Decurion shows how GW thinks the Necrons should be played.
"...Even the smallest Decurion is a significant strike force, with around 30 necrons within the reclamation legion and a lesser ancillary unit of five Deathmarks or Flayed ones - ideal for smaller missions, where overwhelming strength is neither required or appropriate.

So per GW, the correct way to play Necrons is to foot slog around in a horde infantry army because bringing serious firepower to a battle is inappropriate.

...

Well, warriors are supposed to indeed make the core of the default (if any) Necron army, like any troops are supposed to be the core of any other army.
Now, the new rules about detachments does allow you to bring anything you want, including 0 Troops, for your army.
Nonetheless, I think the fluff has guided that sentence, and you did not highlight the ideal for smaller missions

davethepak wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone notice this VERY INTERESTING snippet from the Reclamation legion bundle...

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Reclamation-Legion-Web-Bundle

It is also supplied with four 40mm round bases, three small flying bases, and thirty-nine 25mm round bases and forty 32mm round bases to give you the choice of how you want to base your miniatures.

Fascinating.

I think that answers a lot of questions people had...

Why are not more people raving about this? (Besides being in a useless web bundle)

It just mean that GW does not care whether we put our minis of small, medium, or large size bases.
Now what does it say about what your friends will allow you to do? Nothing ...
What does it say about tournament organizers? Nothing ...

I read in this thread or another than the rule was apparently to allow players to use the base size that came with the model ... so this shall translate into: use whatever base size was in the box that contained the model sprue ... in which case, you could indeed put some warrior on 25mm, some on 32mm, and some on 40mm bases ... how fun

more seriously, I don't think that implies anything new: tournament organizers usually have their own set of rules, right? In particular regarding what you can bring, what detachment are allowed, right?
so if you play in tournaments, it does not change anything: wait to get their specific rules
if you play only with friends, then you'll have to discuss about it with them

or maybe you were wondering why we were not talking about the (dis)advantage(s) of choosing such or such base size?

 Sinful Hero wrote:

davethepak wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone notice this VERY INTERESTING snippet from the Reclamation legion bundle...

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Reclamation-Legion-Web-Bundle

It is also supplied with four 40mm round bases, three small flying bases, and thirty-nine 25mm round bases and forty 32mm round bases to give you the choice of how you want to base your miniatures.

Fascinating.

I think that answers a lot of questions people had...

Why are not more people raving about this? (Besides being in a useless web bundle)

Guess we're not seeing a new monolith anytime soon.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 keltikhoa wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:


The Reclamation Legion contains 44 Citadel miniatures, including: 1 Necron Overlord, 5 Lychguard, 10 Immortals, 24 Necron Warriors, 3 Tomb Blades and 1 Monolith. For $306.75... no savings over separate.

HAHA called that one about 10 pages ago

Why get so excited or act like it's some big deal that you were right?
None of the "web bundles" have given savings.

It's only the items which get an actual box and shelf space at the stores which have given savings.

I think he meant he called what was in it.

Unless I completely fail at math (it happens) this bundle saves you $33 over website list prices.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

davethepak wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone notice this VERY INTERESTING snippet from the Reclamation legion bundle...

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Reclamation-Legion-Web-Bundle

It is also supplied with four 40mm round bases, three small flying bases, and thirty-nine 25mm round bases and forty 32mm round bases to give you the choice of how you want to base your miniatures.

Fascinating.

I think that answers a lot of questions people had...

Why are not more people raving about this? (Besides being in a useless web bundle)

Raving about the base change? A) old news pictured in Exterminatus b) not an advantage for Necrons, since we don't want to be in assault in the current incarnation.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

davethepak wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone notice this VERY INTERESTING snippet from the Reclamation legion bundle...

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Reclamation-Legion-Web-Bundle

It is also supplied with four 40mm round bases, three small flying bases, and thirty-nine 25mm round bases and forty 32mm round bases to give you the choice of how you want to base your miniatures.

Fascinating.

I think that answers a lot of questions people had...

Why are not more people raving about this? (Besides being in a useless web bundle)

Raving about the base change? A) old news pictured in Exterminatus b) not an advantage for Necrons, since we don't want to be in assault in the current incarnation.

I meant more that they included both base sizes to use for your models, but okay.

Gunther wrote:


Also Page 20:
"Enhanced Reanimation Protocols: this is the golden bonus ......reroll 1's....."
Now either I know something he doesn't, specifically, how the current game is played, or he knows something I don't.
Today, this golden bonus add a 5% chance to RP restricted to within 12" of OL. (1/6*2/6= 5.5%)
Not quite worthless in the current codex but its pretty close.
Surely, this guy isn't just talking out of his rear orifice.

Welcome to 7th. They actually thought the new ork mob rules were FAR more beneficial to orks.

That would make monolith's interesting.
AV14 deep strike with 20 warriors.
With gauss that should let you kill a vehicle before you get locked up and killed in CC next turn.

You can already use the Monolith to DS 20 Warriors. Have you ever even played with a Mono? Also, if properly supported with Olords and RC there's a very short list of units, particular in this shoot first meta, that can touch 20 Warriors in CC. You also seem to forget that these Warriors will be relentless.

Not quite worthless in the current codex but its pretty close.

I'm not sure how you consider a nearly army wide resiliency buff worthless. Particularly when we don't know for sure on the exact details of the new RP. If it keeps it's persistent through double T and Insta death, and becomes something that happens instantly (instead of at the end of the phase), then a consistent increase to it's effectiveness from (1/3) to (7/18) is a welcome buff. Particularly when you are getting it basically for free.

I think people missed one of the most important details from the WD:

Someone in (possibly 'Eavy Metal) got their finger prints on a model.



I do like the Glyph marker idea though.

I have to admit the everything has relentless ability is more useful than it looks, well.... it gives more options anyway (pending) Tomb blades can now take the particle beamer and still move and shoot (to bad the ap on the PB sucks but then again 5 str 6 AP5 small blast can still dish out a bunch of wounds....) and gives wraiths the ability to use the Transdimensional beamer while still being able to move shoot and charge 4 or 5 beamers go around monster or IC hunting.



I don't know just trying to see a light side I guess.

Tomb Blades could always move and shoot because, as Jetbikes, they already have Relentless.

So far we only know that the reclamation legion has relentless, and Wraiths can't be taken in that formation. For all we know the formation with the wraiths doesn't give them relentless.

Move Through Cover is pretty good for Jetbikes though.

You can already use the Monolith to DS 20 Warriors. Have you ever even played with a Mono? Also, if properly supported with Olords and RC there's a very short list of units, particular in this shoot first meta, that can touch 20 Warriors in CC. You also seem to forget that these Warriors will be relentless.

If you read my post you will find the following:

If they are referring to the dimensional corridor then any non-vehicle would apply and not just warriors.

So yes, I am aware that a monolith can disembark a single unit per turn in the movement phase through the use of the dimensional corridor.
I was trying to consider what it would mean if the monolith was used as transport vehicle as the quote from the WD suggested.
Deep striking in close enough to be in rapid fire range means I am in charge range.
I suppose contrary to my earlier statement, if the Mono is a transport, it can't be locked into CC.

If I intended to use my warriors as a CC unit, relentless might be useful.
As it is in the current codex, warriors are well below average CC units.

Standing 5% more models back up via this benefit isn't going to turn the tide in any game.

If the RP mechanism completely changes to something else and makes rerolling 1's on RP 'golden' then my worries are for nothing.

As it is in the current codex, warriors are well below average CC units.

20 Relentless Warriors can already do almost 8 MEq wounds on the charge. Granted, that number will tend to diminish against harder hitting targets as the Crons strike last, but they are getting more then 4 of those wounds from the double tap alone.

As someone who regularly used a Brick of warriors lead by Imo (whose decent, but not exactly an all star in CC) all throughout the current Dex's life, I can tell you a 20 brick of relentless Warriors can handle themselves against a wide variety of units up close. If RP triggers immediatly (prior to LD checks, which the rumors seem to dance around at least), their ability to stick around in CC will only go up.

Granted, I wouldn't go charging Khorne Bezerkers with them. But against quite a few targets, and particularly with an actual CC threat of an Olord, it's a unit that will threaten more then it doesn't in CC.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Standing 5% more models back up via this benefit isn't going to turn the tide in any game.

Sure it will. Because each guy you get back then has to be hit again, wounded again, fail another save, and fail another (7/18) RP roll. I think you are underestimating the compounding effect of a mechanic like RP, even in it's current iteration. Think about it this way. You get, on average, 2 additional successes every 36 RP rolls you make, and you can easily make north of 100 RP rolls in a single game. That may not feel as sexy for Warriors, although it could mean the difference between having a couple of guys on an objective or not, but that makes a world of difference for more expensive models like LG, TP, Ds and Heavy Ds, TBs, etc. And naturally it's going to be a major boon whenever it means life or death for your Olord.

A brick of 20 with Imo? Nearly 500 points? I'm curious what the rest of your list would usually contain.

For me, RP is usually incidental to my success. I rely on small groups of warriors with crypteks, lots of vehicles, and scarabs.
When I try running large groups of warriors, I feel like I'm just giving my opponent a nice big target any of their units can shoot at with good effect. For the point cost especially, I've never been satisfied.
Do you run Ghost Arks as well?

 Fafnir13 wrote:
A brick of 20 with Imo? Nearly 500 points? I'm curious what the rest of your list would usually contain.

A lot of lists over the years, honestly. Almost always a Chronomotron with Imo. Often with a ResOrb Dlord that can hop in and out of that and some other units. Scarab Farm works well with it, as well as heavy AV 13 lists. Pretty much anything that will maximize on Imo's Night Fighting and lightning mechanics.

For me, RP is usually incidental to my success. I rely on small groups of warriors with crypteks, lots of vehicles, and scarabs.
When I try running large groups of warriors, I feel like I'm just giving my opponent a nice big target any of their units can shoot at with good effect. For the point cost especially, I've never been satisfied.
Do you run Ghost Arks as well?

Yeah, definitly on the Ghost Arcs. I've even run heavy foot lists with Imo that still contain one Ghost Arc in the back. Combining Ghost Arcs with RP Warriors can be amazing, really. I've had bricks that were statistically likely top pop back up to near full health after taking a nearly unit clearing amount of firepower. You basically funnel firepower into your Ghost Arcs as that's the only way to reliably take down the brick. This, in turn, diverts firepower away from ABs and your other AV 13 hulls.

Gunther wrote:
Just got the White dwarf:

Interesting that the Decurion shows how GW thinks the Necrons should be played.
"...Even the smallest Decurion is a significant strike force, with around 30 necrons within the reclamation legion and a lesser ancillary unit of five Deathmarks or Flayed ones - ideal for smaller missions, where overwhelming strength is neither required or appropriate.

So per GW, the correct way to play Necrons is to foot slog around in a horde infantry army because bringing serious firepower to a battle is inappropriate.

This to me just reads that GW feel it's innapropriate/unnessecary to use overwhelming strength in small games in general, not necessarily specifically Necrons.

So per GW, the correct way to play any army at small points is to foot slog around because bringing serious firepower is innapropriate.

I just noticed the Cryptek Codex is sold out. I wonder how long that took?

About 10 hours apparantly.

 ImAGeek wrote:
About 10 hours apparantly.

Nah it was gone around 10-11pm UK time, definitely before I went to bed So more like 3-4 hours

Ah maybe the 10 hours was UK and U.S. combined then. I was just going off the thread over in 40k General

Glad I didn't wait then. Looking forward to waiting to get it...

Gunther wrote:

Today, this golden bonus add a 5% chance to RP restricted to within 12" of OL. (1/6*2/6= 5.5%)

That math would be a bit off.

On your first roll you pass on a 5+, so that we don't care about. If you fail, you have a 1/4 shot of triggering the "re-roll 1's". So we end up with 1/4*2/6 = 8,3%

So not that much better, but a little at least

davethepak wrote:
We don't know what the random effects are.

Smart people could come up with random powers that are all good in a variety of situations, just maybe a bit ....different.

Of course, these are the same game designers that think I should get excited about relentless for my necron warriors that have no heavy weapons.

Regarding the ctan - T7 is worthless with a 4++ save.
It just is. In a world of wave serpents, tau missile launchers, grav amps, autocannon dreds, or heck, just plasma - a 4++ save is incredibly bad at 240 points.

Grav weapons are not good on a C'tan Shard since they have a - Armour Save. Plasma is also less effective against Shards than it is against every other monstrous critter in the game, I think* But where C'tan Shards really really show their stuff is in close combat against other Monstrous Creatures, who normally get 0 save against the Shard's AP2 attacks, while the Shard has a 4+ against theirs.

* Plasma vs. shard: 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4
Plasma vs. wraithknight w/shimmershield: 1/3 x 2/3 = 2/9
Plasma vs. riptide with nova shield + stimulant injectors: 2/3 x 1/3 x 2/3 = 4/27
Plasma vs. carnifex: 2/3
Plasma vs. bloodthirster: 2/3 x 2/3 = 4/9

So plasma actually churns out more wounds against all of these, except for thr fully kitted-out riptide (who presumably will be taking damage from his nova shield if he keeps doing this).

The difference between a grav attack is much more ridiculous and stark, as the Shard has no armour AND an inv. save.

Grav vs. shard: 1/6 x 1/2 = 1/12
Grav vs. wraithknight w/shimmershield: 2/3 x 2/3 = 4/9
Grav vs. riptide with nova shield + stimulant injectors: 5/6 x 1/3 x 2/3 = 5/54
Plasma vs. carnifex: 5/6
Plasma vs. bloodthirster: 2/3 x 2/3 = 4/9

Yup 1 in 12 chance, that shard is sure going down to the grav onslaught.

This is no to say that Shards are good in the current incarnation, but saying that they have durability problems with respect to other monstrous critters is incorrect -- they are actually more resistent to damage than most. In close combat, in fact, they should beat just about every other monstrous critter, coming up about 50-50 with the wraithknight.

And Relentless obviously allows your Warriors to shoot and assault. They are capable of asssaulting you know, they should actually beat most things that aren't dedicated assault units.

Instead of shooting a shard with plasma or grav, one could also use readily available s7, such as tesla destructors, high yield missile pods or wave serpent shields that would work wonders against their 4++ save. But yeah, you are right in that weapons with few shots and good ap do not perform outstandingly against shards.

 Br00tal_Mclovin wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
About 10 hours apparantly.

Nah it was gone around 10-11pm UK time, definitely before I went to bed So more like 3-4 hours

That is correct. 4 hours. That's how long it took.
I bought mine within 5 minutes of the pre-order opening (yes, I spent like 15mins frantically refreshing page, waiting for it to start )
Funny how pre-order section was updated before main page showed anything. My credit card was already charged and order confirmed before they even got the logo up on welcome screen


BTW, since GW is removing the pics of Cryptek Edition, I took the liberty to preserve it for the future generations

See: http://herrdexter.tumblr.com/post/108963977646/this-was-the-limited-edition-of-codex-necrons-for

 Herr Dexter wrote:

 Br00tal_Mclovin wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
About 10 hours apparantly.

Nah it was gone around 10-11pm UK time, definitely before I went to bed So more like 3-4 hours

That is correct. 4 hours. That's how long it took.
I bought mine within 5 minutes of the pre-order opening (yes, I spent like 15mins frantically refreshing page, waiting for it to start )
Funny how pre-order section was updated before main page showed anything. My credit card was already charged and order confirmed before they even got the logo up on welcome screen


BTW, since GW is removing the pics of Cryptek Edition, I took the liberty to preserve it for the future generations

See: http://herrdexter.tumblr.com/post/108963977646/this-was-the-limited-edition-of-codex-necrons-for

I wasn't even aware, I was curious to see the Necron Codex cover, saw the Cryptek edition and thought 'I must have that'

Kinda wish I got the Datacards too...although I guess they would be more obtainable than the Cryptek Codex

I've just noticed you can still get the battleforce on the GW site, a battleforce and a Tomb Awakened box look like they'd be quite a decent core to an army.

Does the WD suggest whether the Reclamation Legion formation is a preview of the Codex, where it will also be included, or specific to this issue of WD only?

 God In Action wrote:
Does the WD suggest whether the Reclamation Legion formation is a preview of the Codex, where it will also be included, or specific to this issue of WD only?

It's explicitly the core formation of the Decurion detachment.

And can be taken seperately, apparently, which interests me more. Having a Canoptek formation without using up FOC would diversify my list building options, for example.

 ImAGeek wrote:
I've just noticed you can still get the battleforce on the GW site, a battleforce and a Tomb Awakened box look like they'd be quite a decent core to an army.

I was thinking the same thing, and having not long started Necrons i might have to add the Tomb Awakening box set to my battleforce Hopefully Lychguard/Praetorians are good now or i may just make crypteks out of them...

Lychguars have always been good IMO. A bit overpiced but yes, good. They have saved my overlords and games more times than i can remember. Holding of a squad of terminators and even killing them? Sure thing boss. But for them to be competitive they just need to drop a few points. And maybe make a shield/scythe combo possible just like Shield/LC termies.

Ok maybe good wasn't the right word "better" would have been more appropriate i guess

Lychguard have always been the best of the three non-drone dedicated combat units (Though that's not saying much...) because they're basically a full squad of I2 Chainfists. Drop their price a little and allow them to use Ghost Arks as transports and they'd be pretty solid.

Better than Flayed Ones and Praetorians at any rate.

Hehe,

Well we will know soon. Cant wait!

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
Lychguars have always been good IMO. A bit overpiced but yes, good. They have saved my overlords and games more times than i can remember. Holding of a squad of terminators and even killing them? Sure thing boss. But for them to be competitive they just need to drop a few points. And maybe make a shield/scythe combo possible just like Shield/LC termies.

The Shield/Scythe combo is the important thing IMO. Without it they're either far too fragile or don't hit nearly hard enough to be worth their cost.

Necron Datacards soldout on the US webstore.

Rumoured Warlord Traits etc.

via an anonymous source on Faeit 212

Necron Special Rules
Reanimation Protocols are for whenever a model suffers an unsaved wound and can be used against "no saves of any kind" as RP is not a saving throw. It also works against instant death weapons, but not destroyer or removed from play. Standard is a 5+ and can never be improved better than a 4+. If you have FNP, and RP, you must choose which one to use., but not both.

Living Metal ignores shaken results but still loses a hull point. On the roll of a 6 at the end of the round, regain a lost hull point.

Warlord Traits
1. Warlord has Eternal Warrior
2. Warlord has Zealot
3. Warlord and friendlies within 12" re-roll failed morale, pinning and fear
4. While warlord is alive, add or subtract 1 to reserve rolls and seize the initiative after the roll is made
5. Warlord and friendly's within 12" have relentless and crusader
6. Warlord must accept challenges and re-rolls all failed to hit rolls in challenges. If an enemy refuses a challenge the Warlord gains hatred for rest of game.

Sounds like some good changes on the RP and living metal rules. That last warlord trait is pretty hilarious though.

Maybe our Lychguards will be viable again, from warseer:

antaonix;7366221 wrote:Hi guys, New information for the necron here. Again, I just translated it to english. I'm not native speaker so please understand poor translation

1. Reanimation protocol changed like Fantasy's ward save. Can be used at Instant Death.
2. Resurrection orb now gives reroll of current phase's protocol. One use only.
3. Lychguard and Praetorian guard's point value almost halved.
4. Invul save of lychguard now same as storm shield. But no reflection.
5. Praetorian's magic stick's range increased to 12"
6. Triarch stalker now have ability which increasing nearby unit's BS.
7. At start of Each turn, Nemesor Zandrek pick one of the Warlord trait of Codex or rulebook and use it until next turn.
8. He still applies nearby enemy unit's special rule to himself.
9. All the fliers nerfed. Point increase and Weapon's power decrease.
10. Cryptek is now HQ slot.
11. Mss got serious nerf.

Userarm wrote:
Necron Special Rules
Reanimation Protocols are for whenever a model suffers an unsaved wound and can be used against "no saves of any kind" as RP is not a saving throw. It also works against instant death weapons, but not destroyer or removed from play. Standard is a 5+ and can never be improved better than a 4+. If you have FNP, and RP, you must choose which one to use., but not both.

And my interest in the new necrons is going...

...going...

..gone.

Userarm wrote:
Rumoured Warlord Traits etc.

via an anonymous source on Faeit 212

Necron Special Rules
Reanimation Protocols are for whenever a model suffers an unsaved wound and can be used against "no saves of any kind" as RP is not a saving throw. It also works against instant death weapons, but not destroyer or removed from play. Standard is a 5+ and can never be improved better than a 4+. If you have FNP, and RP, you must choose which one to use., but not both.

This is heresy.

(shrugs) no more counters to keep track of, everliving versus normal nonsense sounds good to me. Plus getting to take the save immediately ends the ridiculousness of getting no RP from sweeping advance or similar. Really goes with the unstoppable advance theme.

3. Lychguard and Praetorian guard's point value almost halved.
4. Invul save of lychguard now same as storm shield. But no reflection.

By the C'Tans - please, let this be true. I would finally have a reason to field them!

9. All the fliers nerfed. Point increase and Weapon's power decrease.

Death Ray surely got redesigned but I don't think S7 of Tesla Destructor would change.
Calling shenanigans.

As a Necron player I am struggling to see what's so bad about the new version of RP. Yes, it's been nerfed to not work with D-Weapons but other than that it's basically the same. 5+ reroll after your failed armor save, can still be taken against ID. *shrugs* I guess I just don't see what there is to be pissed about.

 Pox Apostle wrote:
As a Necron player I am struggling to see what's so bad about the new version of RP. Yes, it's been nerfed to not work with D-Weapons but other than that it's basically the same. 5+ reroll after your failed armor save, can still be taken against ID. *shrugs* I guess I just don't see what there is to be pissed about.

For me, it's the fluff of the model actually getting back up after he's died - rather than just a save preventing the damage.

Getting to 'resurrect' my dead models was what drew me to play Necrons in the first place.

 Henker-Kind wrote:
Maybe our Lychguards will be viable again, from warseer:

antaonix;7366221 wrote:Hi guys, New information for the necron here. Again, I just translated it to english. I'm not native speaker so please understand poor translation

Spoiler:

1. Reanimation protocol changed like Fantasy's ward save. Can be used at Instant Death.
2. Resurrection orb now gives reroll of current phase's protocol. One use only.
3. Lychguard and Praetorian guard's point value almost halved.
4. Invul save of lychguard now same as storm shield. But no reflection.
5. Praetorian's magic stick's range increased to 12"
6. Triarch stalker now have ability which increasing nearby unit's BS.
7. At start of Each turn, Nemesor Zandrek pick one of the Warlord trait of Codex or rulebook and use it until next turn.
8. He still applies nearby enemy unit's special rule to himself.
9. All the fliers nerfed. Point increase and Weapon's power decrease.
10. Cryptek is now HQ slot.
11. Mss got serious nerf.

Ooh, rumours :O
Well, let's ignore the source because Warseer and Faeit? That's almost confirmed fake.

1. That new RP is a gigantic buff.
Only downside is the maximum of 4+, which really feths up the Undying-character from Apocalypse-Damnos.
It also messes with the Flayed Ones Court, which gives FNP ánd RP to a unit of Flayed Ones.
2. Hmm, meh, okay.
3. That is freaking awesome.
4. So a 3++ but no reflection? That's worth it if you ask me.
5. Lovely, the old range was way too small for a unit with JP's.
6. Need more info: Range? Is it an 'aura' or a debuff to the target he shoots at?
7. This is incredibly strong
8. Happy, my fear was that he would lose this awesome ability.
9. ALL the Flyers? Bad rumour.
10. We all expected this.
11. Wait.. Did it get nerfed or did it "get nerfed according to people who thought the old MSS was overpowered"?

It sounds good!

-RP are not the same as invulnerable saves. If they were, it would be a killer for the necron feel.

-If RP work similarly to FnP, then they can finally be good in kill teams (as long as the rules in the kill team rulebook that address the old codex will be ignored).

-with halved point values, Lychguard and Praetorians are going to be powerful. I'm totally for powerful infantry units - visually, I like armies with lots of infantry far more than mech spam.

-this is the same reason why I like the nerfing of the flyers.

-Stalker maybe will be as good rules-wise as well it looks.

-and Crypteks in HQ mean that I will finally be able to field a HQ choice in a combat patrol game!

Me too, Pox.

I already (to save myself time of removing models and placing stupid tokens) got used to just having additional 'saving roll'.
Only time I would actually remove models and than place them back after RP was if I wanted to 'move' unit away from shooting enemy thus increasing their charge distance. I would simply place the RP-ed models in the back of the unit. We can't do that anymore and I guess some people can be mad about it. Me - not sure if I care. There are so many more things that matter when it comes to Necrons.

However, this RezOrb = reroll, one use - feels like total gak. That would be worth no more than 5pts. We still need something to keep those RP at 4+.

I really hope MSS don't get nerfed into uselessness.

 vipoid wrote:

 Pox Apostle wrote:
As a Necron player I am struggling to see what's so bad about the new version of RP. Yes, it's been nerfed to not work with D-Weapons but other than that it's basically the same. 5+ reroll after your failed armor save, can still be taken against ID. *shrugs* I guess I just don't see what there is to be pissed about.

For me, it's the fluff of the model actually getting back up after he's died - rather than just a save preventing the damage.

Getting to 'resurrect' my dead models was what drew me to play Necrons in the first place.

^ This

That's what made the WBB / RP rule so unique; it didn't work like a conventional save, as you make the roll after the model dies.
Now it's just another save
Yeah, it could be seen as a buff. But I want my flavor, you know?

 vipoid wrote:

 Pox Apostle wrote:
As a Necron player I am struggling to see what's so bad about the new version of RP. Yes, it's been nerfed to not work with D-Weapons but other than that it's basically the same. 5+ reroll after your failed armor save, can still be taken against ID. *shrugs* I guess I just don't see what there is to be pissed about.

For me, it's the fluff of the model actually getting back up after he's died - rather than just a save preventing the damage.

Getting to 'resurrect' my dead models was what drew me to play Necrons in the first place.

I can definitely see that. From a narrative/cinematic end it definitely takes something away. But, with the blandness of so many of the new codex releases, I'm just happy it didn't get nerfed all to hell. It still operates the same for the most part, and accomplishes what the old rule did, just without the neat addition of seeing your models get back up again. For me, coming from third edition 'Crons, I'm just happy that GW, in it's rehashing of old rules, didn't decide to have the army "phase out" again!

 Herr Dexter wrote:
I already (to save myself time of removing models and placing stupid tokens) got used to just having additional 'saving roll'.
Only time I would actually remove models and than place them back after RP was if I wanted to 'move' unit away from shooting enemy thus increasing their charge distance. I would simply place the RP-ed models in the back of the unit. We can't do that anymore and I guess some people can be mad about it. Me - not sure if I care. There are so many more things that matter when it comes to Necrons.

I never bothered with counters - I just knocked the models down, like in the 3rd edition book.

 Herr Dexter wrote:

However, this RezOrb = reroll, one use - feels like total gak. That would be worth no more than 5pts. We still need something to keep those RP at 4+.

That does indeed seem awful.

 Pox Apostle wrote:
I can definitely see that. From a narrative/cinematic end it definitely takes something away. But, with the blandness of so many of the new codex releases, I'm just happy it didn't get nerfed all to hell.

But, that's exactly what happened - it got made into a boring, unfluffy save. This is precisely the sort of thing that makes the new books so bland.

 Herr Dexter wrote:

However, this RezOrb = reroll, one use - feels like total gak. That would be worth no more than 5pts. We still need something to keep those RP at 4+.

Well, RP mentions not being improvable beyond 4+, so there must be some way of improving it.

 Herr Dexter wrote:
Me too, Pox.

I already (to save myself time of removing models and placing stupid tokens) got used to just having additional 'saving roll'.
Only time I would actually remove models and than place them back after RP was if I wanted to 'move' unit away from shooting enemy thus increasing their charge distance. I would simply place the RP-ed models in the back of the unit. We can't do that anymore and I guess some people can be mad about it. Me - not sure if I care. There are so many more things that matter when it comes to Necrons.

However, this RezOrb = reroll, one use - feels like total gak. That would be worth no more than 5pts. We still need something to keep those RP at 4+.

I really hope MSS don't get nerfed into uselessness.

Yeah, the Orb rules have me worried too. I also wonder what will happen to the Repair rules from the Ghost Ark. If RP is basically a FNP then I can't see how the Ghost Arks can help bring more guys back to life. I'm thinking these end up getting turned into bland transports without any real special rules anymore.

jms40k wrote:

 Herr Dexter wrote:

However, this RezOrb = reroll, one use - feels like total gak. That would be worth no more than 5pts. We still need something to keep those RP at 4+.

Well, RP mentions not being improvable beyond 4+, so there must be some way of improving it.

Yeah, I just hope they don't refer to some formation bonus bs and rather a proper item on Lord/Overlord.


BTW, I wonder what Necron artifacts will be like?

Could easily be a relic that improves the save unit, bubble, or army-wide. Or it could be an effect of the ghost ark's repair, etc. However, the non-specifics of that last round of rumors puts them in doubt more than their sources does imho.

 Pox Apostle wrote:

 Herr Dexter wrote:
Me too, Pox.

I already (to save myself time of removing models and placing stupid tokens) got used to just having additional 'saving roll'.
Only time I would actually remove models and than place them back after RP was if I wanted to 'move' unit away from shooting enemy thus increasing their charge distance. I would simply place the RP-ed models in the back of the unit. We can't do that anymore and I guess some people can be mad about it. Me - not sure if I care. There are so many more things that matter when it comes to Necrons.

However, this RezOrb = reroll, one use - feels like total gak. That would be worth no more than 5pts. We still need something to keep those RP at 4+.

I really hope MSS don't get nerfed into uselessness.

Yeah, the Orb rules have me worried too. I also wonder what will happen to the Repair rules from the Ghost Ark. If RP is basically a FNP then I can't see how the Ghost Arks can help bring more guys back to life. I'm thinking these end up getting turned into bland transports without any real special rules anymore.

Maybe Ghost Arks will boost RP saves? i guess that can be a decent replacement for the repair of dead warriors...

I bet they'll have a relic that grants Fear.

Just calling it now.

Perhaps units that have a 4+ by standard, meaning they are 'immune' to Res Orbs?
I personally don't mind about the One Use Only, if only that comes with a gigantic point-reduction.

 Pox Apostle wrote:
But, with the blandness of so many of the new codex releases

What blandness?
Can you please point out the blandness in the latest Codex (Blood Angels)?

 Br00tal_Mclovin wrote:
Maybe Ghost Arks will boost RP saves? i guess that can be a decent replacement for the repair of dead warriors...

Well, as long as Ghost Arks can finally transport Lychguard and Flayed Ones

Well, as long as Ghost Arks can finally transport Lychguard and Flayed Ones

Every recent codex has had dedicated transports placed in the Fast Attack slot (including Militarum Tempestus, but not Astra Militarum for some reason).

One use Res orb would be ok if it wasn't limited to the unit that the lord was attached to.

Kangodo wrote:
Perhaps units that have a 4+ by standard, meaning they are 'immune' to Res Orbs?
I personally don't mind about the One Use Only, if only that comes with a gigantic point-reduction.

 Pox Apostle wrote:
But, with the blandness of so many of the new codex releases

What blandness?
Can you please point out the blandness in the latest Codex (Blood Angels)?

 Br00tal_Mclovin wrote:
Maybe Ghost Arks will boost RP saves? i guess that can be a decent replacement for the repair of dead warriors...

Well, as long as Ghost Arks can finally transport Lychguard and Flayed Ones

I don't play Blood Angels so I can't say, but off the top of my head, the Dark Eldar had Halequins, Vect, and Baron removed, invalidating anyone who played Hellions as troops, or used Vect as an HQ. Removing options and characters from a codex is making it blander, in my opinion. Perhaps not every codex lately has been like this, and perhaps they will add things back in through splash releases like they did with the 'Nids. But, that's just my two cents.

 Pox Apostle wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Perhaps units that have a 4+ by standard, meaning they are 'immune' to Res Orbs?
I personally don't mind about the One Use Only, if only that comes with a gigantic point-reduction.

 Pox Apostle wrote:
But, with the blandness of so many of the new codex releases

What blandness?
Can you please point out the blandness in the latest Codex (Blood Angels)?

 Br00tal_Mclovin wrote:
Maybe Ghost Arks will boost RP saves? i guess that can be a decent replacement for the repair of dead warriors...

Well, as long as Ghost Arks can finally transport Lychguard and Flayed Ones

I don't play Blood Angels so I can't say, but off the top of my head, the Dark Eldar had Halequins, Vect, and Baron removed, invalidating anyone who played Hellions as troops, or used Vect as an HQ. Removing options and characters from a codex is making it blander, in my opinion. Perhaps not every codex lately has been like this, and perhaps they will add things back in through splash releases like they did with the 'Nids. But, that's just my two cents.

I agree that even without models, these characters shouldn't have been removed; however, with the move to 7th and unbound lists, removing slot-shifting rules makes some sense. The rules are there to run an entire hellion army, you just have to make that choice to no longer get the battleforged benefits.

On that note, we haven't really heard much about the necron named characters, hoping they make Orikan and Trazyn more useful as I like the fluff behind those the best

 vipoid wrote:
I bet they'll have a relic that grants Fear.

Just calling it now.

I dunno, the Mephrit Dynasty relics were REALLY good, among the best relic list (if not the best overall) that we have seen.



As to the rumors, while I'll miss the feel of standing my models back up, if that changes to RP is true, it is a huge buff. An Army wide better-than-fnp Roll is pretty huge. I can deal with the Orb being one use only if this true, though I will miss the 4+.

Someone pointed out this:
According to another Faeit-rumour the RC also increases RP and stacks with RO.
So they are contradicting each other.

jms40k wrote:

 Pox Apostle wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Perhaps units that have a 4+ by standard, meaning they are 'immune' to Res Orbs?
I personally don't mind about the One Use Only, if only that comes with a gigantic point-reduction.

 Pox Apostle wrote:
But, with the blandness of so many of the new codex releases

What blandness?
Can you please point out the blandness in the latest Codex (Blood Angels)?

 Br00tal_Mclovin wrote:
Maybe Ghost Arks will boost RP saves? i guess that can be a decent replacement for the repair of dead warriors...

Well, as long as Ghost Arks can finally transport Lychguard and Flayed Ones

I don't play Blood Angels so I can't say, but off the top of my head, the Dark Eldar had Halequins, Vect, and Baron removed, invalidating anyone who played Hellions as troops, or used Vect as an HQ. Removing options and characters from a codex is making it blander, in my opinion. Perhaps not every codex lately has been like this, and perhaps they will add things back in through splash releases like they did with the 'Nids. But, that's just my two cents.

I agree that even without models, these characters shouldn't have been removed; however, with the move to 7th and unbound lists, removing slot-shifting rules makes some sense. The rules are there to run an entire hellion army, you just have to make that choice to no longer get the battleforged benefits.

On that note, we haven't really heard much about the necron named characters, hoping they make Orikan and Trazyn more useful as I like the fluff behind those the best

Agreed! Trazyn is my favorite HQ, and I love running narrative games around him collecting things from various planets. I'm hoping we'll see some buffs there as well.

I wonder if Trazyn will still be able to steal bodies when he dies.

Let's hope so, that is quite more attractive when he takes over Lychguard that are 20-25 points.

Kangodo wrote:
Someone pointed out this:
According to another Faeit-rumour the RC also increases RP and stacks with RO.
So they are contradicting each other.

Yep I was just thinking that. Faeit rumours = *insanely loud fart noise*

 MoonlightSonata wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Someone pointed out this:
According to another Faeit-rumour the RC also increases RP and stacks with RO.
So they are contradicting each other.

Yep I was just thinking that. Faeit rumours = *insanely loud fart noise*

I'm really surprised we don't have anything more concrete at this point.

I'm up for sacrificing knocking my models over then picking them back again if it means every reanimated model gets to strike back at I2, suddenly blowing the assault phase wide open against non-combat specialist Marine Equivalents.

Reanimation lost most of it's flavour in 5th edition anyhow when they massively simplified it.

Because a substantial portion of your army ignoring all but D weapons on a 3+ wouldn't be OP? Just curious when something like that would become OP.

Combine stackable RP bonuses with the formation that allows you to re-roll 1s and you're only losing models on a 2.

 Henker-Kind wrote:
Maybe our Lychguards will be viable again, from warseer:

antaonix;7366221 wrote:Hi guys, New information for the necron here. Again, I just translated it to english. I'm not native speaker so please understand poor translation

1. Reanimation protocol changed like Fantasy's ward save. Can be used at Instant Death.
2. Resurrection orb now gives reroll of current phase's protocol. One use only.
3. Lychguard and Praetorian guard's point value almost halved.
4. Invul save of lychguard now same as storm shield. But no reflection.
5. Praetorian's magic stick's range increased to 12"
6. Triarch stalker now have ability which increasing nearby unit's BS.
7. At start of Each turn, Nemesor Zandrek pick one of the Warlord trait of Codex or rulebook and use it until next turn.
8. He still applies nearby enemy unit's special rule to himself.
9. All the fliers nerfed. Point increase and Weapon's power decrease.
10. Cryptek is now HQ slot.
11. Mss got serious nerf.

Ouch. Let's see:
1) New reanimation is much better and simpler. I appreciate that. To be honest, I liked the way it used to be done, but the gamey-ness threw me off. I hated that it could shuffle units or the whole test for morale etc. I never really understood why morale would make them magically decide not to even bother coming back anyway - it's a robot. Save is functionally similar and easier. It also gets rid of the somewhat silly "oh, my chariot just popped back to life" thing. Good change IMO.
2) Res Orb has just gone from situational to worthless. I wouldn't even waste 5 points on that, it's just bad. It's fluffier in that it's not a constant effect, but in the fluff it's almost a get out of jail free always revive. With a reroll, you go from 1/3 to revive to 5/9. The trade from per phase 4+ to 5/9 once a game is punishingly brutal.
3&4) I will eat my hat if this is true. That said, if Lychguard are 25 point models with S5 AP3 attacks and a 3++ but no shooting... is that even good anyway? That still seems bad when assault is so bad nowadays. You're basically getting plague marines which trade their shooting for assault. At least they'll be usable I suppose. Praetorians will still be bad anyway at 20, but they might be always used if one of these rumours is true...
5) 12" range on jump is cool. S5 is still meh though and, whilst these will murder marines, I'm seriously worried about how we're going to hurt MCs at all. More on that later.
6) That's quite cool. I mean, they still need a price drop, but that's decent. At least TL things will be affected now. If TL things are even good now, that is, which I doubt.
7) That's really good. Lots of rerolls to be done with shooting. Depends on his points.
8) Applies nearby enemies rule to himself? Either this is a rule change or misworded. Who knows.
9) Heres the bit which worries me: we all expected this but the weapon power is down? If that's strength... how will Necrons deal with MCs? 11) says MSS is nerfed, which means our old avenue of "lock scary thing in combat" is most likely gone. I2 overlords are similarly unlikely to be able to deal with MCs . Lychguard being AP3 means they have quite a few MCs which they simply cannot be a shield from. I dunno, it seems bad from here. Necrons always lacked useable low AP weapons - this will exacerbate things more. Bleh. I'm hoping other things will be cheaper to accommodate this, which would make it okay, but I'm not hopeful.
10) I like. Pls make Szeras good. I mean, I'll use him anyway still, but this is a good chance.

Overall... Meh? We need to know points and wargear options to make judgements. For all I know, the Nightbringer could have his old profile, move 12" a turn and cost 150 points meaning that Necrons become super awesome. Or, they could keep all costs the same and nerf tesla destructors, wraiths, flyers and MSS, making Necrons almost unplayable. The main issues will be these:
1) What is gauss now? Double strength on 6 would be amazing, same as current is meh. Any nerf makes it nearly pointless.
2) How can MCs be dealt with? Ineffective guns and possible wargear changes could be game over.
3) What has happened to Quantum Shielding? Honestly, I'd prefer it just to be replaced my making things actually AV13, but if it's there has it changed?
4) C'tan - what do they do now? The names have returned, have the abilities? Will they be reasonably priced?
5) Crypteks - more like psykers now, or just cool gun warriors still? What wargear will they have?
6) Lord/Overlord wargear - what is it? Are we going to get SW or PSs, or are we doomed to 3+ gak? Will gauntlet of fire ever be worth a damn? Will war scythes be too expensive?
7) Wraiths - how nerfed are they?
8) Spyders - how nerfed are they?
9) Can the monolith please be good yet? Please?
10) Just how badly has the T C'tan been hit with nerfs?

We know the answer to none of these, so I won't even speculate as to how Necrons could be good/bad next week. I'm expecting the worst frankly, but I have no faith in GW rules, and haven't for quite some time. We could just as easily be so unbelievably OP people will hate them forever.

But it's a kellydex, so expect the absolute worst because he hates us.

If this is true, then GW officiall removed WBB / RP, the iconic Necron USR.

 Sigvatr wrote:
If this is true, then GW officiall removed WBB / RP, the iconic Necron USR.

Perhaps they'll make it up to us be changing the effect of And They Shall Know No Fear to "Models with this rule are unaffected by the Fear special rule."

Seriously though, it was already FNP with immunity to instant death in the shooting phase. The only difference here is you don't knock your models over and pick them back up then get screwed in the assault phase because half your unit is on the floor.

The repair rules from ghost arks never had anything to do with RP in the first place?
The repair rule would work just as well with the new RP.

Now that looks cool!

via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Some stat changes I noticed:
Overlords (and the othet special character overlords)- WS and BS 5 instead
of 4
Lords - 2 wounds instead of 1
Cryptek - 2 wounds instead of 1
Orikan the Diviner- once the change in stats happens, it remains for the
entire game!
Flayed ones - same stats but now have 2 weapons (flayer claws, AP5, shred)
so have 4 attacks total.
Triarch praetorians - 2 attacks instead of 1.
Canoptek Wraiths - Toughness 5 instead of 4
Destroyers (both versions) - 2 wounds instead of 1 (finally)
Obelisk - 14 AV all around, instead of 12.

The Phase shifter, which is now 4+ inv save instead of 3+, states
specifically that it doesnt work on the catacomb Barge, just the Overlord,
so no more jackass rules interpretation.

Death Ray - now is 24" S10, AP1, Heavy 1, Blast, Lance
Doomsday cannon, +1 strength to both profiles (so 8/10)

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Pox Apostle wrote:
As a Necron player I am struggling to see what's so bad about the new version of RP. Yes, it's been nerfed to not work with D-Weapons but other than that it's basically the same. 5+ reroll after your failed armor save, can still be taken against ID. *shrugs* I guess I just don't see what there is to be pissed about.

For me, it's the fluff of the model actually getting back up after he's died - rather than just a save preventing the damage.

Getting to 'resurrect' my dead models was what drew me to play Necrons in the first place.

^ This

That's what made the WBB / RP rule so unique; it didn't work like a conventional save, as you make the roll after the model dies.
Now it's just another save
Yeah, it could be seen as a buff. But I want my flavor, you know?

So then I take it you are really digging the new C'Tan rules

 Sasori wrote:
I'm really surprised we don't have anything more concrete at this point.

Hardly; Early rumours usually have three sources:
1. Co-workers: Many people are not willing to lose their job just to spoil some rules a few days in advance.
2. Shipment-errors: There are just a chance and then the entire Codex would be spoiled.
3. Faeit212

Talking about that last thing: http://natfka.blogspot.nl/2015/01/codex-leaks-necron-stat-changes.html
That 4++ and the loss of the Inv-save on the CCB is quite terrible.

Does anybody know if you can still use the old/normal FoC to build a list or do you have to use the like premade/restricted FoC?

 vipoid wrote:

 Pox Apostle wrote:
As a Necron player I am struggling to see what's so bad about the new version of RP. Yes, it's been nerfed to not work with D-Weapons but other than that it's basically the same. 5+ reroll after your failed armor save, can still be taken against ID. *shrugs* I guess I just don't see what there is to be pissed about.

For me, it's the fluff of the model actually getting back up after he's died - rather than just a save preventing the damage.

Getting to 'resurrect' my dead models was what drew me to play Necrons in the first place.

Agree.

If I wanted to play FNP army I would play blood angels.

Sounds like incredibly nasty nerfs all over the place.

However, I am hoping that something of the codex will feel cohesive and make it good.

greenman18 wrote:
Does anybody know if you can still use the old/normal FoC to build a list or do you have to use the like premade/restricted FoC?

You can always use the "old FOC".
Though I think it's better if you refer to it as a Combined Arms Detachment.

Every army has access to the Combined Arms Detachment and Allied Detachment.
In the Codices and Supplements you get additional Detachments where you change the FOC a little and gain different special rules.

Kangodo wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I'm really surprised we don't have anything more concrete at this point.

Hardly; Early rumours usually have three sources:
1. Co-workers: Many people are not willing to lose their job just to spoil some rules a few days in advance.
2. Shipment-errors: There are just a chance and then the entire Codex would be spoiled.
3. Faeit212

Talking about that last thing: http://natfka.blogspot.nl/2015/01/codex-leaks-necron-stat-changes.html
That 4++ and the loss of the Inv-save on the CCB is quite terrible.

Most of that list are buffs.

The no invul save on the CCB makes it pretty worthless.

The phase shifter going down to a 4++ is really a suprise though. It better come with a hefty price decrease if that is the case. I still kinda doubt it.


And we normally do have some really solid rules leaks usually well before the codex release. This release is really behind the curve.

Ah right thanks, that's what I was worried about a little

changemod wrote:
Seriously though, it was already FNP with immunity to instant death in the shooting phase. The only difference here is you don't knock your models over and pick them back up then get screwed in the assault phase because half your unit is on the floor.

Precisely. This is what made the USR iconic. By changing it to a regular save, GW would effectively remove it.

 Henker-Kind wrote:
Now that looks cool!

via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Some stat changes I noticed:
Overlords (and the othet special character overlords)- WS and BS 5 instead
of 4
Lords - 2 wounds instead of 1
Cryptek - 2 wounds instead of 1
Orikan the Diviner- once the change in stats happens, it remains for the
entire game!
Flayed ones - same stats but now have 2 weapons (flayer claws, AP5, shred)
so have 4 attacks total.
Triarch praetorians - 2 attacks instead of 1.
Canoptek Wraiths - Toughness 5 instead of 4
Destroyers (both versions) - 2 wounds instead of 1 (finally)
Obelisk - 14 AV all around, instead of 12.

The Phase shifter, which is now 4+ inv save instead of 3+, states
specifically that it doesnt work on the catacomb Barge, just the Overlord,
so no more jackass rules interpretation.

Death Ray - now is 24" S10, AP1, Heavy 1, Blast, Lance
Doomsday cannon, +1 strength to both profiles (so 8/10)

So no more unkillable bargelord?? What the hell am I going to field now?? Necrons are gak now etc etc


Sarcasm aside I'm kind of glad that there is a lot of doom and gloom, as eBay will be ripe for picking in a week or two
Personally I'm loving what I'm hearing so far, sounds like a lot of units have gained a purpose for being played

I laugh at everyone who claims RP is ruined. RP has always been an additional save, although taken at a different time. I admit, it had its own special tricks to it, but in the end you can still just knock over your model and throw the dice immediately instead of a minute later.

Your disability to cope with change, which holds almost no significance from a narrative point of view, is absurd, especially since the new (rumoured) rules help streamline the game.

But it is still not a regular save, it's like FNP+.
What I don't understand is how quite a few people are happy with this "nerf" against Destroyer-weapons.
How often do we encounter those?
And how many Necron units have both FNP and RP? I can think of only one, and that is for Apocalypse (Flayers with 3+ FNP)

If these rumours are correct than it would be quite a big buff for CC.
Which I like since it makes FO's, Praetorians and Lychguard more attractive.

 Henker-Kind wrote:
Now that looks cool!

via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Some stat changes I noticed:
Overlords (and the othet special character overlords)- WS and BS 5 instead
of 4
Lords - 2 wounds instead of 1
Cryptek - 2 wounds instead of 1
Orikan the Diviner- once the change in stats happens, it remains for the
entire game!
Flayed ones - same stats but now have 2 weapons (flayer claws, AP5, shred)
so have 4 attacks total.
Triarch praetorians - 2 attacks instead of 1.
Canoptek Wraiths - Toughness 5 instead of 4
Destroyers (both versions) - 2 wounds instead of 1 (finally)
Obelisk - 14 AV all around, instead of 12.

The Phase shifter, which is now 4+ inv save instead of 3+, states
specifically that it doesnt work on the catacomb Barge, just the Overlord,
so no more jackass rules interpretation.

Death Ray - now is 24" S10, AP1, Heavy 1, Blast, Lance
Doomsday cannon, +1 strength to both profiles (so 8/10)

Overlord change - 99% meaningless unless their shooting becomes nuts.
Lords/Crypteks - high time too. Might make them playable (and crypteks more so is they have their old weapons)
Orikan - always should have done this. Fun, but probably still bad.
Flayed ones - shred?! Shred?! Yeeeeesssssssss, at last! Effectively, these are MEQ (reanimation + 4+ ~= 3+ save) which can bum rush with 4 shred attacks. I'll try it.
Praetorians - hmm, depends for them. No mention of the points drop = probably not happening = still bad.
Wraiths - These definitely needed buffs. Yup.
Destroyers - still overcosted IMO. Still, 40 points per 2 wound PE jump plague marines with AP3 guns? I've got enough from 3e to test them. Might be cool.
Obelisk should ALWAYS have been AV14. It's not even really good enough to be a super heavy. Still, nice that it was done.

Phase shifter - this kills the CCB, wraiths worse (but in a way that's actually fine - better vs small arms, worse vs dedicated AT), all overlords hurt. Don't like it, but with a point drop, probably fine actually.

Death ray - worse, but less confusing. Won't see play, barely saw play with auto hit.
Doomsday cannon - I never heard anyone say it was too weak, more that it doesn't do enough for its points. Fun unit, but the issue would remain even with a buff. Honestly, it's an issue with blasts in the rules generally - they're just worse than multiple shots most of the time.

Decent balancing, still depends entirely on points. Still need good way to deal with MCs.

DaPino wrote:
I laugh at everyone who claims RP is ruined. RP has always been an additional save, although taken at a different time. I admit, it had its own special tricks to it, but in the end you can still just knock over your model and throw the dice immediately instead of a minute later.

Your disability to cope with change, which holds almost no significance from a narrative point of view, is absurd, especially since the new (rumoured) rules help streamline the game.

People are complaining that the Flavor of RP is ruined, not the rule itself.

Objectivly, it's a buff. I don't think I've seen anyone who has not agreed with this. It's just that the flavor of the rule is gone now, since it just acts as a better FNP.

I'm just going to forge the Narrative out of it.
Whenever something fails a save, I will knock the model over.
Then I will roll for RP and let it get back up immediately.

So for me the 'feeling' stays the same while it gets buffed.
Except for Apocalypse. But I'm going to laugh at the opponent that uses D-weapons against my Warriors.

DaPino wrote:
I laugh at everyone who claims RP is ruined. RP has always been an additional save, although taken at a different time. I admit, it had its own special tricks to it, but in the end you can still just knock over your model and throw the dice immediately instead of a minute later.

Your disability to cope with change, which holds almost no significance from a narrative point of view, is absurd, especially since the new (rumoured) rules help streamline the game.

I don't expect a new player to understand Necrons, let alone Necron players.

I'm a wee bit curious if the phase shifter will be 4++ for both lords and wraiths (almost definitely is, I know) or 4++ for lords but 3++ for wraiths like it was back in the oldcron dex. That would be interesting

Kangodo wrote:
I'm just going to forge the Narrative out of it.
Whenever something fails a save, I will knock the model over.
Then I will roll for RP and let it get back up immediately.

So for me the 'feeling' stays the same while it gets buffed.

So, why not do that for FNP as well?

 vipoid wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
I'm just going to forge the Narrative out of it.
Whenever something fails a save, I will knock the model over.
Then I will roll for RP and let it get back up immediately.

So for me the 'feeling' stays the same while it gets buffed.

So, why not do that for FNP as well?

I don't get what you are trying to say?

The fluff will not change, they still die.
It's only in the actual game where RAW they wouldn't die.

It's been mentioned that Lychguard and Praetorians have had a point reduction.

The Change to RP actually statistically makes it a little bit better because if they get up immediately then your opponent has to dedicate more fire power from another unit to keep them down where as before they could not. So it changes them a bit tactically which is a good thing.

Hollismason wrote:
It's been mentioned that Lychguard and Praetorians have had a point reduction.

That's huge for me. I love the models, but could never get myself to field any because of their point cost.

The Praetorian staff apparently got moved to a 12 inch range.

If wraiths are indeed T5 I would expect a significant price hike or a nerf to wounds. 35 pts for a T5 3 wound model with a 4++ doesn't sound right in the slightest

Yeah I expect them to stay the same price but keep the T5 and drop 1 wound.

The more rumors that come out the more I feel like I will keep playing the fifth edition codex, makes me really glad I'm not a competitive player.

You guys know Wraiths only have 2 wounds right?

Am I the only cron player who didn't play the barge with an invuln save, just the rider? I mean, he gets a 4 plus jink right with little downside, if the PS is a 4 plus than there's no need to have a 4 plus invuln since it will only matter against ignores cover

MonumentOfRibs wrote:
If wraiths are indeed T5 I would expect a significant price hike or a nerf to wounds. 35 pts for a T5 3 wound model with a 4++ doesn't sound right in the slightest

Wraiths currently have 2 wounds, not 3 I think.

Edit: Beaten .

I love it when people say they are going to use older codex because they think they are better. As an opposing player I would really love that to be dropped on me.

"I'm using the 3rd edition Chaos Marine codex. All of my Khorne Bezerkers have FNP on a 4+ save because I think it makes more sense."

 Sigvatr wrote:

DaPino wrote:
I laugh at everyone who claims RP is ruined. RP has always been an additional save, although taken at a different time. I admit, it had its own special tricks to it, but in the end you can still just knock over your model and throw the dice immediately instead of a minute later.

Your disability to cope with change, which holds almost no significance from a narrative point of view, is absurd, especially since the new (rumoured) rules help streamline the game.

I don't expect a new player to understand Necrons, let alone Necron players.

Less of the elitism please, especially in a game shrinking as fast as this one. Frankly, I suspect this is what they wanted to do in the 5e codex but didn't due to backlash fears. Ultimately, it is less flavourful, but is much faster, requires less book keeping and is simpler to explain in a game already bloated by overly complex rules which take an age to resolve. As a result of this change, everliving is redundant, and it's functionally better. Instead of dying, then repairing, Necrons now repair standing. A very meaningless thing to be upset about, and I suspect you'll find it plays much better.

I'm curious about the Auxillary parts to the decurion. Any idea on whether or not each part has its own special rules?? Because they read like formations, but it seems crazy to think of how many formation benefits you would have to remeebr

 Sasori wrote:

DaPino wrote:
I laugh at everyone who claims RP is ruined. RP has always been an additional save, although taken at a different time. I admit, it had its own special tricks to it, but in the end you can still just knock over your model and throw the dice immediately instead of a minute later.

Your disability to cope with change, which holds almost no significance from a narrative point of view, is absurd, especially since the new (rumoured) rules help streamline the game.

People are complaining that the Flavor of RP is ruined, not the rule itself.

Objectivly, it's a buff. I don't think I've seen anyone who has not agreed with this. It's just that the flavor of the rule is gone now, since it just acts as a better FNP.

How is it a buff? I thought more guys would end up dying over the course of the game...

Old RP = they get killed and knocked over and no one else can shoot at them and at end of turn some get back up.
New RP = they get killed and pass an RP save and people can keep shooting at them and they have to keep trying to make saves...

I guess though it might prevent a unit getting wiped vs one other units shooting... ok I see now.

Eyjio wrote:


Less of the elitism please, especially in a game shrinking as fast as this one. Frankly, I suspect this is what they wanted to do in the 5e codex but didn't due to backlash fears. Ultimately, it is less flavourful, but is much faster, requires less book keeping and is simpler to explain in a game already bloated by overly complex rules which take an age to resolve. As a result of this change, everliving is redundant, and it's functionally better. Instead of dying, then repairing, Necrons now repair standing. A very meaningless thing to be upset about, and I suspect you'll find it plays much better.

We've gone back to playing 4th a long time ago. Codex: Necrons was the pinnacle of GW codex writing as it has an extremely tight connection between fluff and actual rules.

 Hulksmash wrote:
You guys know Wraiths only have 2 wounds right?

I feel like an idiot now. Good call! In that case price should be around the same, though GW does like pricing the hell out of invul saves so we will see

Cryptek of Awesome wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

DaPino wrote:
I laugh at everyone who claims RP is ruined. RP has always been an additional save, although taken at a different time. I admit, it had its own special tricks to it, but in the end you can still just knock over your model and throw the dice immediately instead of a minute later.

Your disability to cope with change, which holds almost no significance from a narrative point of view, is absurd, especially since the new (rumoured) rules help streamline the game.

People are complaining that the Flavor of RP is ruined, not the rule itself.

Objectivly, it's a buff. I don't think I've seen anyone who has not agreed with this. It's just that the flavor of the rule is gone now, since it just acts as a better FNP.

How is it a buff? I thought more guys would end up dying over the course of the game...

Old RP = they get killed and knocked over and no one else can shoot at them and at end of turn some get back up.
New RP = they get killed and pass an RP save and people can keep shooting at them and they have to keep trying to make saves...

I guess though it might prevent a unit getting wiped vs one other units shooting... ok I see now.

Who are these mythical opponents who shoot a bit of a Necron unit so you roll RP, but not enough so they're totally wiped and get no roll at all? Can you ship them to my area please? Unless I'm using my fluffy blob foot army, I'm pretty used to never getting to roll for RP once they're shot at.

I'm personally failing to see how it's a nerf as well. Before hand , concentrating fire on a unit guaranteed it couldn't stand up. Now they get that extra save regardless. It sucks for Lords if Ever Living is gone but I'll take it

 Sigvatr wrote:

Eyjio wrote:


Less of the elitism please, especially in a game shrinking as fast as this one. Frankly, I suspect this is what they wanted to do in the 5e codex but didn't due to backlash fears. Ultimately, it is less flavourful, but is much faster, requires less book keeping and is simpler to explain in a game already bloated by overly complex rules which take an age to resolve. As a result of this change, everliving is redundant, and it's functionally better. Instead of dying, then repairing, Necrons now repair standing. A very meaningless thing to be upset about, and I suspect you'll find it plays much better.

We've gone back to playing 4th a long time ago. Codex: Necrons was the pinnacle of GW codex writing as it has an extremely tight connection between fluff and actual rules.

Well, yeah, so were most 3rd ed codexes. The quality of GW's work has really degenerated over the years.
Before you had well written fluff pieces, articles, scenarios, tactica, P&M guides and even the occasional alternate army list.
Now it's just background, unit description and 10-20 pages of pretty pictures.

MonumentOfRibs wrote:
I'm personally failing to see how it's a nerf as well. Before hand , concentrating fire on a unit guaranteed it couldn't stand up. Now they get that extra save regardless. It sucks for Lords if Ever Living is gone but I'll take it

It shines in assault. Knocked down Necrons can't strike back when I2 rolls around.

 PhillyT wrote:
I love it when people say they are going to use older codex because they think they are better. As an opposing player I would really love that to be dropped on me.

"I'm using the 3rd edition Chaos Marine codex. All of my Khorne Bezerkers have FNP on a 4+ save because I think it makes more sense."

Was this aimed at me? If it was I would just like to say that I don't think the old codex was better, just that I prefer that feel as opposed to the new one. In fact if anything this new codex looks like a great buff to a number of units, but the rules seem to me more bland with some more CC oriented rules. Which while not bad just is not my cup of tea, so I will be sticking with the older weaker codex for the feel of the army, not to exploit some rule.