Vineheart01 wrote: Ghostkeel is clearly shorter than a Riptide, somewhere between Broadside and Riptide in size by my guess.
Going to be a bit sad if its an HQ because you know its going to be a named HQ if it is and thus have 0 options. And Tau's named HQs have a bad habit of only being good in a very few situations, and trash in the rest. Quite frankly i want Stealth Suits to be FA as it is, so i'd also hope this thing is FA. Our FA is really barren of useful units lol
Though i admit, part of me wants fluff for this thing about it being a new Shadowsun model lol. She got tired of fearing heavy arms so she ordered a new suit lol
Why will it be a named HQ..?
Two reasons governing this:
Crisis suits are the only suit we have HQ's for that isnt named right now. I'd love the other suits to open up for noname, customizable HQs but i dont see it happening.
Far as i know, nobody has gotten a new HQ except in named form for awhile. Could be wrong about this though. Painboy for orks doesnt count since that was moved to HQ to let it buff any unit not just nobz.
So, looking at GW's naming conventions for these suits, we have the Riptide and Stormsurge. Would that mean the next larger iteration (probably by FW) will be named the tsunami?
There goes yet another crisis suit Bigfooting it in the background, soaking in all that partial visibility
I WANT TO BELEIVE
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: so which gundum kit do i need to buy to give this guy arms? then it can hold that rifle and the missiles can go on the shoulders.
Stormonu wrote: So, looking at GW's naming conventions for these suits, we have the Riptide and Stormsurge. Would that mean the next larger iteration (probably by FW) will be named the tsunami?
XV149 "Hurricane" Battle Suit lol
Comes close to 2ft tall and houses four Heavy Railguns that are individually manned by a Tau gunner behind each gun in the complete wide open!
Vineheart01 wrote: Ghostkeel is clearly shorter than a Riptide, somewhere between Broadside and Riptide in size by my guess.
Going to be a bit sad if its an HQ because you know its going to be a named HQ if it is and thus have 0 options. And Tau's named HQs have a bad habit of only being good in a very few situations, and trash in the rest. Quite frankly i want Stealth Suits to be FA as it is, so i'd also hope this thing is FA. Our FA is really barren of useful units lol
Though i admit, part of me wants fluff for this thing about it being a new Shadowsun model lol. She got tired of fearing heavy arms so she ordered a new suit lol
Why will it be a named HQ..?
Two reasons governing this:
Crisis suits are the only suit we have HQ's for that isnt named right now. I'd love the other suits to open up for noname, customizable HQs but i dont see it happening.
Far as i know, nobody has gotten a new HQ except in named form for awhile. Could be wrong about this though. Painboy for orks doesnt count since that was moved to HQ to let it buff any unit not just nobz.
Yeah, for the same reason I'm hoping it ends up in Fast Attack. I can't imagine they'd advertise it as the XV95 Ghostkeel and then give it another name and throw it in HQ.
What if it builds two suits? XV95 Ghostkeel and XV96 Command Suit?
Personally I'm surprised the Stormsurge isn't a dual kit, with a different weapon option (like moar/larger missile racks) it could also pull double-duty as an air-defense suit. Its a bit rare for GW to only have one unit entry buildable by such a large kit these days.
It is kinda odd now that you mention it. Especially since its fluff mentioned anti-titan gear. Kinda expected its giant missilepods to be swappable to either straight up Heavy Railguns (strD) or something not quite that powerful where it has ~50-50 odds to be StrD or S10.
Betcha anything FW will put out alternate "arm" weapons eventually. Thats one advantage of the position theyre in, its not that hard to magnetize so it can be swapped out quickly. Which is what i intend to do with the Ta'unar when i get it....that thing is bound to have a plethora of guns.
Yeah, I intend to magnetize the crap out of every suit I purchase once this new book comes out, especially with the design of these new suits FW will be missing out a huge opportunity if they dont release either mods (ala the Riptide) or new weapon systems entirely (like they did for the Hammerhead way back when).
chaos0xomega wrote: Yeah, I intend to magnetize the crap out of every suit I purchase once this new book comes out, especially with the design of these new suits FW will be missing out a huge opportunity if they dont release either mods (ala the Riptide) or new weapon systems entirely (like they did for the Hammerhead way back when).
Even FW seems to be 100% behind magnetizing now, the Ta'unar evidently has pre-drilled magnet holes and the instructions have what size magnets it takes.
chaos0xomega wrote: Yeah, I intend to magnetize the crap out of every suit I purchase once this new book comes out, especially with the design of these new suits FW will be missing out a huge opportunity if they dont release either mods (ala the Riptide) or new weapon systems entirely (like they did for the Hammerhead way back when).
Even FW seems to be 100% behind magnetizing now, the Ta'unar evidently has pre-drilled magnet holes and the instructions have what size magnets it takes.
Is that what the holes are for? I just assumed they were lock and key type sockets rather than flat pads.
Course i immediately thought "wonder if my magnets fit in those holes..." when i saw them on the unarmed model lol
I hope Ghostkeel isn't a HQ choice as well, but if it is - I'm still going to use it, I love the stealth suits so Ghostkeel is an appealing miniature to me as well. So glad it's smaller than the riptide! I don't like the huge suits at all.
@ChillPowderKeg WOW I hate the current crisis suits so much, this one looks soooo much better. PLEASE I HOPE THESE ARE NEW CRISIS SUITS
Vineheart01 wrote: It is kinda odd now that you mention it. Especially since its fluff mentioned anti-titan gear. Kinda expected its giant missilepods to be swappable to either straight up Heavy Railguns (strD) or something not quite that powerful where it has ~50-50 odds to be StrD or S10.
Betcha anything FW will put out alternate "arm" weapons eventually. Thats one advantage of the position theyre in, its not that hard to magnetize so it can be swapped out quickly. Which is what i intend to do with the Ta'unar when i get it....that thing is bound to have a plethora of guns.
Judging from what they did with the riptide, they'll come out with an independent kit for "their" version of the Stormsurge and not just weapon swaps. It'll significantly modify the model and only use one or two of the sprues but not all and be completely NOT magnetized swappable judging from the two Riptide kits we have. And that is assuming they do anything which isn't likely IMO since they're offering a competing gargantuan robot (that is appropriately close topped!).
i have 12 crisis suits and 3 "broadsides" (face it theyre still crisis suits). Only 3 are assembled properly and painted lol and i only did that because i use them almost every game so i kinda felt obligated. Theyre all ebay rejects, which i got for dirt cheap lol. Think it was like $3 each for most of them. Really wish i took pics of one in particular during the renovation process...cause it was hilariously bad lol. Green paint was so thick i swear to god the idiot painted Liquid Greenstuff on it instead of paint, feet were on backwards (yes that bugs me when the little "toe" is outward not inward), had every single wargear that could possible fit on it even if it normally didnt go there, and the LEGS were backwards! I mean how do you glue their legs on backwards lol. Spent a freakin week on that guy after he sat in some Simple Green for about a month CUTTING that green slop off and grinding out the grooves on his armor. Now hes one of my finished trio and barely looks any worse than the other two lol.
Yaknow..i just realized i never took pics of that trio lol. Theyre missing from my imgur albums entirely. Yay something to do other than sit on my butt waiting to goto work! lol
I hate the crisis suit model. Its so bland and blocky. Ive tried to fix that but im not that great at greenstuff sculpting any further than just patching holes.
If that blurry pic is a new crisis suit model and not just a commander, i'll be seriously tempted to at least get a squad of them to replace the squad i usually bring.
Mentlegen324 wrote: Other than the open-topped issues, the Stormsurge seems to be controlled with buttons. That really doesn't seem to make much sense for Battlesuits. I thought the point of them was they are linked to the pilot and become like an extension of the wearer, which is why they can be so mobile and aren't walkers. That sort of control doesn't seem possible with buttons.
Yeah, that's another reason I don't like that detail, because "WASD" is not at all how I imagined piloting a battlesuit worked.
If you look at all the photos of it, you can look at the Devilfish looking part and see a kind of half-circle on that and the part immediately next to it. In all the shots of it that half-circle is never completed like one would assume any canopy would do.
That's what I was afraid of.
Oh, well. I wasn't exactly hot on the design in the first place, and GW already put me off of it with the $150 price tag.
And in case anyone is wondering, no, a closed cockpit wouldn't have really made much of a difference. It's really more of the cherry on top of a gak sundae.
bossfearless wrote: New Fire Warriors are like 3 codices overdue at this point.
Sorry I can't hear your complaining over the Adepta Sororitas kits who are in dire need of a reboot across the board...
Which is, like the Dark Eldar update in 2010, a monumental task that will likely take multiple years and result in a massive release with dozens of kits likely stretched out over months.
Had they decided not to release a new fire warrior kit it wouldn't have helped Sisters come out any faster.
This thread is also about Tau, not Sisters. Not sure what kind of discussion you expected when you started reading it. The fire warrior kit needed replacing, and also, no one was trying to argue that it was more important than the Sisters update that will never happen.
I actually like the current Firewarrior models alot. Theres a reason i have a bunch of them painted lol (40, colorcoded into squads of 10). What i want is access to special weapons, since theyre a Shooty unit that has next to no Shooty options. Specifically the pathfinder guns. Even if i can only take 1 per squad, i WANT THOSE DAMN GUNS! lol. Ionrifles and Railrifles are awesome but i hate pathfinders due to their cost and squishyness, not to mention the ML part automatically labels them a priority target.
Ive tried to use them as offensive units with the guns, but the guns feel so out of place coupled with Pulse Carbines and the pricetag on that unit is outrageous for how easy theyre removed. Thus ive never actually fielded them because i despise paying for crap i dont use, and in order to use those guns i have to buy the carbines + ML on the other models which will rarely get used to any real effect.
Vineheart01 wrote: I actually like the current Firewarrior models alot. Theres a reason i have a bunch of them painted lol (40, colorcoded into squads of 10). What i want is access to special weapons, since theyre a Shooty unit that has next to no Shooty options.
Specifically the pathfinder guns. Even if i can only take 1 per squad, i WANT THOSE DAMN GUNS! lol. Ionrifles and Railrifles are awesome but i hate pathfinders due to their cost and squishyness, not to mention the ML part automatically labels them a priority target.
Ive tried to use them as offensive units with the guns, but the guns feel so out of place coupled with Pulse Carbines and the pricetag on that unit is outrageous for how easy theyre removed. Thus ive never actually fielded them because i despise paying for crap i dont use, and in order to use those guns i have to buy the carbines + ML on the other models which will rarely get used to any real effect.
I definitely could see that happening, it seems that Cadre Fireblades are moving to be an upgrade character for the squads, I definitely could see them getting a few other toys as well. Here's hoping, I would love to see Ionrifles on Fire Warriors.
Why do you think the Cadre Fireblade is becomming a upgrade character instead of a HQ? If it is ebcause he's in the Troops slot of the GW website, I doubt it. e's been in the Troops slot on the GW website since he was first released. Just GW error.
I think being able to bring cadre fireblades as an slotless HQ (like commissars or priests for IG) or as a squad upgrade to FW would be amazing. And yes! Either pathfinder weapons in FW squads, or heavy weapon drones and give the squad leader an option to buy a drone controller (or a drone BS upgrade).
The fire warriors are a good design (not a fan of the helmets on the new ones, either), but the kit itself is garbage. Barren sprues, miscast legs always, and the molds have worn out so much that the details are very, very soft.
I just wish they hadn't decided to give them goofier helmets. I'm almost 100% positive the only reason they did so is to shut up the occasional whiner who complained about not being able to tell the difference between a fire warrior and a pathfinder...yet us xenos players are expected to tell which models are tactical Marines, assault Marines, devastator Marines, Vangaurd, Sternguard, etc.
If its a general upgrade, meaning you can get multiple squads with it, then holy crap thats awesome. If its a unique upgrade like 'Ard Boyz used to be then eww....can no longer swap his unit if its numbers get thin.
If its a general upgrade, meaning you can get multiple squads with it, then holy crap thats awesome. If its a unique upgrade like 'Ard Boyz used to be then eww....can no longer swap his unit if its numbers get thin.
That's not right. People started saying that because they saw the Fireblade in the Troops section of the GW website; but, as people have been saying, it's been there since 2013. What's new is that Drones are there instead of Fast Attack.
So no, I don't believe Fireblade will be a FW upgrade. AFAIK, it'll remain a HQ choice.
Truth be told, even if thats just the new Commander model and there isnt a new normal crisis suit, you can still buy multiple Commanders and just leave off any fancy frilly stuff/marks that signify theyre a boss character.
Though that would be rather pricy rofl since even no-name character HQs are always jacked up on prices since they dont expect you to buy more than a couple of them, so they gotta squeeze more money outta the few you buy.
I just wish they hadn't decided to give them goofier helmets. I'm almost 100% positive the only reason they did so is to shut up the occasional whiner who complained about not being able to tell the difference between a fire warrior and a pathfinder...yet us xenos players are expected to tell which models are tactical Marines, assault Marines, devastator Marines, Vangaurd, Sternguard, etc.
Exactly this. I can never tell the difference between all those marines.
I am very curious about the new FWs but I like the old helmets better. Unfortunately, as you said some legs and details are terrible in the current set!
Vineheart01 wrote: Space Marines have different models between those units?
Coulda fooled me....lol...
I never even remember which factions use Havocs and which use Devastators, not that it flippin matters since to me theyre just "big gun marines" lol
The player is supposed to denote it either on the shoulder pad or on the helmet or in some way differentiate the squads; practically, a lot of SM players don't if for no other reason than to be able to move models between one unit to another. Or, it's just too much work, and they're happy they have a coat of paint of any color on the model
For me, I hate the funky colored helmets, and I like sculpted shoulder pads, so it doesn't always work out :(
It does matter a little bit, though, for certain chapter tactics, obsec, etc.
Someone on ATT took a close look at some English versions of the WD and found it will have three support options in the box. So there is some evidence it is being limited in what it can take.
So far we've seen it modeled with a target lock, early warning override, and the shield.
So there is a possibility that might be its only options.
Edit
If that's true then it's going to hamper this thing a lot.
Gamgee wrote: Someone on ATT took a close look at some English versions of the WD and found it will have three support options in the box. So there is some evidence it is being limited in what it can take.
So far we've seen it modeled with a target lock, early warning override, and the shield.
So there is a possibility that might be its only options.
Edit
If that's true then it's going to hamper this thing a lot.
But that makes no sense. Crisis too come with only 3 support systems, but noone ever says they can't take a positional relay. I wouldn't say those 3 are the only options until the codex hits. Heck, Target Lock doesn't even make sense for a Gargantuan unit.
Formosa wrote: Looking at the new tau stuff, if they do indeed get new crisis suits, I may take the plunge and go farsight enclaves, hoping they are not op though.
Might wanna hold out a bit on that one. There's a pretty good chance Farsight Enclaves will be rendered invalid by the new codex. That's what happened with Iyanden when Eldar got updated. Yes Space Marines still get Imperial Fists and Iron Hands (unless my info on that one is wrong), but keep in mind we're talking about a Xenos faction, not an Imperial one. We're probably better off making assumptions based off of the treatment of another Xenos army rather than GW's favorite codex.
Which sucks cause the whole reason I got into Tau was for the battlesuits, so being able to do a full battlesuit army with FE was awesome. If it goes away I'll be sad, but I fully expect to see a formation (hopefully a Core formation) in the Decurion or even a specialized detachment a la Dark Angels for an entirely battlesuit army.
Hoping that a: new crisis suits and b: you can make them troops.
Tau are filling up on the force org quickly too.
For just over 1,000 points you can grab a riptide, stormsurge and the 2 FW tide variants .
So elite, fast, heavy and LOW choices.
I'm half tempted with the FW suits for now until I see crisis suits.
If there's no change I guess I'm paying £96 + postage for 3 hazard suits and converting them myself.
Also hoping "the eight" stay a thing as its a nice bit of character and conversion poten.
Jackal wrote: Hoping that a: new crisis suits and b: you can make them troops.
Tau are filling up on the force org quickly too.
For just over 1,000 points you can grab a riptide, stormsurge and the 2 FW tide variants .
So elite, fast, heavy and LOW choices.
Just want to point out that this is very likely to be a Decurion styled book, so the "standard" FOC will not really be an issue.
Also I would not be surprised at all to see a "Tau Rapid Insertion Force" formation making a comeback/appearance in this book as a formation to let players who want to go crazy with the new Crisis Suits do so.
For those who were unaware of it:
It was 9x Crisis Suits and 3x Stealth Suits, along with 19x Gun Drones(basically the amount that they would have came with) released as an Apocalypse formation in a single box.
Interesting how you can have a unit of them.
Expensive, but somewhat effective.
Funny how a weapon called a destroyer missile which can pick out a target's weak point is only S8. One shot too.
I guess you do get them for free, but its still pretty lackluster.
Gamgee wrote: Someone on ATT took a close look at some English versions of the WD and found it will have three support options in the box. So there is some evidence it is being limited in what it can take.
So far we've seen it modeled with a target lock, early warning override, and the shield.
So there is a possibility that might be its only options.
Edit If that's true then it's going to hamper this thing a lot.
Yes, 3 options (p 7). Just some text...
P.5 says..
- 2 options for main gun (long range pulse driver cannon and short range pulse blastgcannon) - 2 missile arrays that include "a cluster rocket system for bombarding enemy infantry, a quartet of destroyer missiles for busting open tanks, and a smart missile system for flushing out enemies that think they're safe hiding in cover" - Left arm "also caries a defensive turret equipped with twin-linked flamers, burst cannons or airbursting fragmentation projectors which can rotate through 360 degrees of fire at enemies encroaching from behind"
P7 says..
- On the left of the customer rockets is the Stormsurge's targeting array, complete with optional support systems (there are three in the kit). Above the rockets a smart missile system sits elevated ready to fire.
Formosa wrote: Looking at the new tau stuff, if they do indeed get new crisis suits, I may take the plunge and go farsight enclaves, hoping they are not op though.
Might wanna hold out a bit on that one. There's a pretty good chance Farsight Enclaves will be rendered invalid by the new codex. That's what happened with Iyanden when Eldar got updated. Yes Space Marines still get Imperial Fists and Iron Hands (unless my info on that one is wrong), but keep in mind we're talking about a Xenos faction, not an Imperial one. We're probably better off making assumptions based off of the treatment of another Xenos army rather than GW's favorite codex.
Which sucks cause the whole reason I got into Tau was for the battlesuits, so being able to do a full battlesuit army with FE was awesome. If it goes away I'll be sad, but I fully expect to see a formation (hopefully a Core formation) in the Decurion or even a specialized detachment a la Dark Angels for an entirely battlesuit army.
What are you talking about? Iyanden wasn't invalidated, maybe tourneys but who cares what they think, they house rule all sorts anyway, my mate uses Iyanden all the time, why do you think it's not valid anymore?
Formosa wrote: What are you talking about? Iyanden wasn't invalidated, maybe tourneys but who cares what they think, they house rule all sorts anyway, my mate uses Iyanden all the time, why do you think it's not valid anymore?
Then why is it no longer for sale if its still a current codex supplement?
Lack of demand precluded reprinting? But, since I haven't looked through Iyanden, would anything prevent you from still using it with the new codex? Like units that no longer exist or something?
vitae_drinker wrote: Lack of demand precluded reprinting? But, since I haven't looked through Iyanden, would anything prevent you from still using it with the new codex? Like units that no longer exist or something?
And lack of demand has what to do with it not being available digitally?
Iyanden has new relics and allows you to take more spirit seers and big wraith constructs can be warlord. Only thing that doesn't work with the new book is the primaris power they swap from runes of battle that gives nearby wraiths battlefocus.
vitae_drinker wrote: Lack of demand precluded reprinting? But, since I haven't looked through Iyanden, would anything prevent you from still using it with the new codex? Like units that no longer exist or something?
You can use all of the fluff parts, of course (which is most of the supplement). Some of rules, particularly the army building part, don't necessarily make sense, because they reference things that aren't true anymore, or they were created / balanced in a different context. For instance, when Wraithguard was a troop, they didn't have D weapons, and the WK is referred to as a MC, but it's a GC now.
If your opponent is ok with it, tweaking it to work with the new codex isn't a problem, but it's those pickup games and people who suspect that you're getting an advantage marrying a new codex with an old supplement that you'd run into problems with.
Hmm, honestly I can't think of a reason why Farsight Enclaves wouldn't work with the new codex then, especially since it would be limited to the CAD. Unless they drastically change the way crisis suits work or something lol.
vitae_drinker wrote: Lack of demand precluded reprinting? But, since I haven't looked through Iyanden, would anything prevent you from still using it with the new codex? Like units that no longer exist or something?
You can use all of the fluff parts, of course (which is most of the supplement). Some of rules, particularly the army building part, don't necessarily make sense, because they reference things that aren't true anymore, or they were created / balanced in a different context. For instance, when Wraithguard was a troop, they didn't have D weapons, and the WK is referred to as a MC, but it's a GC now.
If your opponent is ok with it, tweaking it to work with the new codex isn't a problem, but it's those pickup games and people who suspect that you're getting an advantage marrying a new codex with an old supplement that you'd run into problems with.
Yeah, common sense approach, but I'm being off topic.
Sentinels of Terra is still available as a supplement even with the release of the new Codex Space Marines, so there is no clear fate for the Farsight supplement when the new Tau codex is released.
I would laugh so hard if GW included a Farsight Rule in the new codex and still sold the supplement so you could have a Farsight Farsight Enclaves army.
Nilok wrote: I would laugh so hard if GW included a Farsight Rule in the new codex and still sold the supplement so you could have a Farsight Farsight Enclaves army.
Do you mean an army-wide rule like in the 4th ed codex, or just the rule that the current main-book version of Farsight has?
Formosa wrote: Looking at the new tau stuff, if they do indeed get new crisis suits, I may take the plunge and go farsight enclaves, hoping they are not op though.
Might wanna hold out a bit on that one. There's a pretty good chance Farsight Enclaves will be rendered invalid by the new codex. That's what happened with Iyanden when Eldar got updated. Yes Space Marines still get Imperial Fists and Iron Hands (unless my info on that one is wrong), but keep in mind we're talking about a Xenos faction, not an Imperial one. We're probably better off making assumptions based off of the treatment of another Xenos army rather than GW's favorite codex.
Which sucks cause the whole reason I got into Tau was for the battlesuits, so being able to do a full battlesuit army with FE was awesome. If it goes away I'll be sad, but I fully expect to see a formation (hopefully a Core formation) in the Decurion or even a specialized detachment a la Dark Angels for an entirely battlesuit army.
What are you talking about? Iyanden wasn't invalidated, maybe tourneys but who cares what they think, they house rule all sorts anyway, my mate uses Iyanden all the time, why do you think it's not valid anymore?
The "official" RAW reasoning is that Iyanden is a supplement for Codex: Eldar, which no longer exists. The 7th codex is called Codex: Eldar: Craftworlds. So, since the name changed the supplement is no longer valid. Personally don't hold too much stock in that argument, but I still agree with the sentiment for 2 reasons.
1. The 40k community at my FLGS is very much geared towards tournament play, so they always utilize whatever the latest NOVA or ETCFAQ is. Ergo, no Iyanden. If I want to get any games at all I have to follow them to since that's what my opponents use (which frankly I have no problem with). Anecdotal, sure, but I can guarantee I'm not the only person who plays in a tournament focused group.
2. The more important point in my mind. Iyanden was written and intended for the 6th edition Eldar codex and it's power level. Not Craftworld's power. No army should ever have access to a GC as an HQ choice, especially not the most cost effective one in the entire game. Iyanden grants that to current Eldar due to allowing Wraith Knights to be HQ choices. Say what you will about Eldar and balance, but 7th edition Eldar was clearly not written with Iyanden in mind.
At the end of the day, you can house rule whatever you want. But in my experience (yes more anecdotes, sorry), most players, clubs, and LGS will base their house rules around the rulings and FAQs of the big name tournaments like NOVA, Adepticon, and BAO. After all, the entire purpose of them making these rulings is to make 40k as balanced as possible so it can work in a tournament setting. And I dare say they have more experience at it than joe shmoe off the street. If they say Iyanden is no longer legal, for whatever reason, I'm gonna go with them because they know how to balance a game system far better than I do.
Seriously guys who cares about farsight enclaves, it's a forgone conclusion they will have multiple formations and a formation made of formations. In among that I am positive there will be some sort of battle suit heavy formation you could just spam. It will probably even gain free USR's and gear or +1 BS or some such crap.
Yeah, YMDC invaded over a book that's no longer available and it somehow having an impact on one that's not available yet.
It's the interwebs and peeps love them some argumentation.
I'm really torn over potential new battlesuits. Part of me wants them but the other part of me realizes that I have 15 of the old ones and remembers what a PITA it was to magnetize them.
Yeah, YMDC invaded over a book that's no longer available and it somehow having an impact on one that's not available yet.
It's the interwebs and peeps love them some argumentation.
I'm really torn over potential new battlesuits. Part of me wants them but the other part of me realizes that I have 15 of the old ones and remembers what a PITA it was to magnetize them.
Chill Winston, there was no argument, just a nice discussion on whether a past codex being legal or not could indicate the validity of a current codex, I.e, will farsight enclaves still be usable, while slightly off topic, it could be relevant to the thread as others like myself would probably want to wait and see before taking the plunge on the new tau codex
I do agree on being torn however, I'd have to start tau from scratch, and I'm not sure I'm willing to drop the dorror bucks it would take to get a full army going, especially if farsight enclaves gets invalidated like Iyanden may or may not have been.
Yeah, YMDC invaded over a book that's no longer available and it somehow having an impact on one that's not available yet.
It's the interwebs and peeps love them some argumentation.
I'm really torn over potential new battlesuits. Part of me wants them but the other part of me realizes that I have 15 of the old ones and remembers what a PITA it was to magnetize them.
Chill Winston, there was no argument, just a nice discussion on whether a past codex being legal or not could indicate the validity of a current codex, I.e, will farsight enclaves still be usable, while slightly off topic, it could be relevant to the thread as others like myself would probably want to wait and see before taking the plunge on the new tau codex
I do agree on being torn however, I'd have to start tau from scratch, and I'm not sure I'm willing to drop the dorror bucks it would take to get a full army going, especially if farsight enclaves gets invalidated like Iyanden may or may not have been.
You know orkmoticons mean something to most people, right? I get that some people don't understand levity but in the age of the chat room, emoticons are kind of universal. *le sigh*
I don't think I'd sweat it too much about FEs becoming invalidated; as others have mentioned, GW has been pretty decent about including most styles of general play in the codex included detachments. Barring that, I doubt too many people would kick up a fuss if you played by the FEs rules making it primarily a competitive play issue. Everyone I know that plays is pretty chill about pretty much anything, sad for you if it's not the same in your neck of the woods.
Yeah, YMDC invaded over a book that's no longer available and it somehow having an impact on one that's not available yet.
It's the interwebs and peeps love them some argumentation.
I'm really torn over potential new battlesuits. Part of me wants them but the other part of me realizes that I have 15 of the old ones and remembers what a PITA it was to magnetize them.
Chill Winston, there was no argument, just a nice discussion on whether a past codex being legal or not could indicate the validity of a current codex, I.e, will farsight enclaves still be usable, while slightly off topic, it could be relevant to the thread as others like myself would probably want to wait and see before taking the plunge on the new tau codex
I do agree on being torn however, I'd have to start tau from scratch, and I'm not sure I'm willing to drop the dorror bucks it would take to get a full army going, especially if farsight enclaves gets invalidated like Iyanden may or may not have been.
You know orkmoticons mean something to most people, right? I get that some people don't understand levity but in the age of the chat room, emoticons are kind of universal. *le sigh*
I don't think I'd sweat it too much about FEs becoming invalidated; as others have mentioned, GW has been pretty decent about including most styles of general play in the codex included detachments. Barring that, I doubt too many people would kick up a fuss if you played by the FEs rules making it primarily a competitive play issue. Everyone I know that plays is pretty chill about pretty much anything, sad for you if it's not the same in your neck of the woods.
Um...there are no orkmoticons coming up on my screen?, so I don't know what you mean, might be because I'm using my phone possibly?
Yeah, YMDC invaded over a book that's no longer available and it somehow having an impact on one that's not available yet.
It's the interwebs and peeps love them some argumentation.
I'm really torn over potential new battlesuits. Part of me wants them but the other part of me realizes that I have 15 of the old ones and remembers what a PITA it was to magnetize them.
Chill Winston, there was no argument, just a nice discussion on whether a past codex being legal or not could indicate the validity of a current codex, I.e, will farsight enclaves still be usable, while slightly off topic, it could be relevant to the thread as others like myself would probably want to wait and see before taking the plunge on the new tau codex
I do agree on being torn however, I'd have to start tau from scratch, and I'm not sure I'm willing to drop the dorror bucks it would take to get a full army going, especially if farsight enclaves gets invalidated like Iyanden may or may not have been.
Sounds like a new thread topic in 40k General Discussion then...
Yeah, YMDC invaded over a book that's no longer available and it somehow having an impact on one that's not available yet.
It's the interwebs and peeps love them some argumentation.
I'm really torn over potential new battlesuits. Part of me wants them but the other part of me realizes that I have 15 of the old ones and remembers what a PITA it was to magnetize them.
Chill Winston, there was no argument, just a nice discussion on whether a past codex being legal or not could indicate the validity of a current codex, I.e, will farsight enclaves still be usable, while slightly off topic, it could be relevant to the thread as others like myself would probably want to wait and see before taking the plunge on the new tau codex
I do agree on being torn however, I'd have to start tau from scratch, and I'm not sure I'm willing to drop the dorror bucks it would take to get a full army going, especially if farsight enclaves gets invalidated like Iyanden may or may not have been.
Sounds like a new thread topic in 40k General Discussion then...
Nah, as I stated, it belongs here, just not as a focus of the thread, it's news and rumours and the possibility of the invalidation of the farsight codex definitely qualifies as news, just not proven as of yet.
Doing the math, the Stormsurge is inefficient and on the whole, a poor choice for a LOW slot when compared to the other Tau Battlesuit LOW, the Ta'unar.
First, your basic Stormsurge is 360 points base, 375 with the viable weapon option (lets not fool ourselves, the pulse blastgun is a waste of time). Not including any sort of support system and we can expect them to easily fill the 25 points to a nice round 400 points per suit.
Alone, the Stormsurge has one single battlefield role. It sits in the back and shoots destructo-disks. Every other weapon it has, from the rocket pods to the Nerf-rockets really won't do anything of value aside from kill a few troops or put wounds on MC's. By shooting templates you get over its terrible BS, and you have a reasonable hope of hitting SOMETHING (That short range D shot relies on BS3, good luck).
The weapon itself, (pulse driver) is NOT A BAD GUN. It's a long range demolisher cannon that can fire twice. Nothing to be upset about. Everything -else- about the suit is basically useless unless you are shooting at scrub-based infantry. In which case, you will be getting a kill here and there (The SMS is the only thing that ignores cover.)
The stats of the vehicle have been resoundingly ridiculed by everyone here, so I don't really need to go over it. Everyone here knows that if you take just one of these, expect it to die by turn 2 from deep strikers, battle cannons and missile launchers.
Yes, we don't know what options it will have, and we can expect some kind of invul, but it will be expensive.
In order to compete against other LOW, you need more then one. A knight titan or wraith knight can gun-kata across the board and kill the Stormsurge and suffer maybe three wounds as a result. The Blastgun option MAY save you, but if you somehow get spectacularly lucky and land a Destroyer hit, you probably had to move your Stormsurge out of cover to do it, and now it's a sitting duck.
Already the stormsurge outprices the Wraith Knight and most of the Knight Titans for a single model. To compete you need a second one. For around 800 points, you now outprice most other lords of war so you can shoot two more destructo-disks a round. This is not a viable option. Also note that the destructo-disks don't have ignores cover.
The hilariously offensive Destroyer missiles... wow there are no words, the description of accuracy was laughable due to the BS3.
Take into consideration that you can take unlimited wraith knights at 300 points, each a monster in CC, t8, and can shoot two D attacks at 36 a round.
Now lets look at the Ta'unar.
600 points, so about the cost of 1.5 Stormsurges. For the additional 200 points, you pay for great armor, amazing toughness, more wounds, a great invul and most importantly BS4. This thing no longer relies on markerlights to survive.
In the shooting phase, this sucker can drop a 7 inch D blast at 72, great range and quite effective. It's other option is an Apoc Barrage, ignores cover 8/3 pain train (three rolls on the template). Also great because it doesn't require LOS to drop on your enemy. This right here completely invalidates the primary weapon options of the stormsurge.
Secondary weapons are 60 inch tri-axis ion cannons that have two firing modes, 12 shots of 7/3 or 6 shots of 9/2. Both are great choices, one becoming a tank hunting shot. If you want, flip it out for a fusion eradicator for 10 wonderful st 8 ap 1 melta shots at 24 (you give up a lot of range, but it's wonderful against vehicles).
So, it completely invalidates the pathetic destroyer missiles. Better shots, no single use.
Now the defensive weapons. Not only do they let the thing shoot overwatch, but you get 24 TL 5/5 shots. Same number as the max number of shots the rocket pod can get, albeit at less range.
This firepower is easily worth two Stormsurges, and I could make the argument that it's more effective then three storm surges for a fraction of the cost. Seriously.
Best part is right here.
The cost of the Stormsurge is going to be about 150 bucks. Two are 300. Not including taxes.
The Ta'unar? about 350.
Save the money, buy the Ta'unar, destroy your enemies with a real artillary suit.
Red Corsair wrote: Seriously guys who cares about farsight enclaves, it's a forgone conclusion they will have multiple formations and a formation made of formations. In among that I am positive there will be some sort of battle suit heavy formation you could just spam. It will probably even gain free USR's and gear or +1 BS or some such crap.
Right?
We are probably debating something that might not (probably won't) matter at all C'mon where is the Tau Codex leak already!!
Gamgee wrote: Someone on ATT took a close look at some English versions of the WD and found it will have three support options in the box. So there is some evidence it is being limited in what it can take.
So far we've seen it modeled with a target lock, early warning override, and the shield.
So there is a possibility that might be its only options.
Edit
If that's true then it's going to hamper this thing a lot.
This doesn't mean anything, as of yet. In the latest Tau codex the actual support system bits are never shown nor identified (they where in the codex before that), i.e. just stick on what you want and call it what you want, officially nobody really knows that the 'satellite dish/loadspeakerish' bit in the riptide kit actually is, the codex simply doesn't tell us.
Zelnik wrote: Doing the math, the Stormsurge is inefficient and on the whole, a poor choice for a LOW slot when compared to the other Tau Battlesuit LOW, the Ta'unar.
...
Save the money, buy the Ta'unar, destroy your enemies with a real artillary suit.
I agree with all of your logic in terms of the two models in isolation. The Stormsurge *so far* appears inferior in every way in the LoW slot compared to the Ta'unar. But....
1) We haven't seen the codex yet, so you never know: there might be a formation that requires or buffs a Stormsurge.
2) You probably can't take the Ta'unar as a part of the super-formation of the Tau Codex, just like you can't take a Cerastus Knight or Revenant Titan as part of their codex formations. Do you want another CAD just to get the LoW slot?
3) The Ta'unar is resin, a lot more expensive, and laden with all the Forge World problems that some of us have (brokerage, possible tax issues, difficulty with getting replacement for defective bits, et cetera). And it's hard to pack away to buddy's house or gaming store. Which have nothing to do with its effectiveness, but are still considerations.
4) Your local meta might be anti-FW. But let's not revisit that debate here
4) Your local meta might be anti-FW. But let's not revisit that debate here
PLS, the Eldar stuff is enough already in a Tau thread.
I don't expect Farsight Enclaves to be useless after the new codex' release, unless they make huge changes to crisis suits and make them OP somehow.
As for the Stormsurge, I see it as a kind of a moneygrab on GW's side; one model will be mostly useless it seems, (but again we haven't seen the codex yet) so buy 3! Maybe there will be a squad box with 3 of them, 10$ cheaper!
Formosa wrote: Looking at the new tau stuff, if they do indeed get new crisis suits, I may take the plunge and go farsight enclaves, hoping they are not op though.
Might wanna hold out a bit on that one. There's a pretty good chance Farsight Enclaves will be rendered invalid by the new codex. That's what happened with Iyanden when Eldar got updated. Yes Space Marines still get Imperial Fists and Iron Hands (unless my info on that one is wrong), but keep in mind we're talking about a Xenos faction, not an Imperial one. We're probably better off making assumptions based off of the treatment of another Xenos army rather than GW's favorite codex.
Which sucks cause the whole reason I got into Tau was for the battlesuits, so being able to do a full battlesuit army with FE was awesome. If it goes away I'll be sad, but I fully expect to see a formation (hopefully a Core formation) in the Decurion or even a specialized detachment a la Dark Angels for an entirely battlesuit army.
What are you talking about? Iyanden wasn't invalidated, maybe tourneys but who cares what they think, they house rule all sorts anyway, my mate uses Iyanden all the time, why do you think it's not valid anymore?
The "official" RAW reasoning is that Iyanden is a supplement for Codex: Eldar, which no longer exists. The 7th codex is called Codex: Eldar: Craftworlds. So, since the name changed the supplement is no longer valid. Personally don't hold too much stock in that argument, but I still agree with the sentiment for 2 reasons.
1. The 40k community at my FLGS is very much geared towards tournament play, so they always utilize whatever the latest NOVA or ETCFAQ is. Ergo, no Iyanden. If I want to get any games at all I have to follow them to since that's what my opponents use (which frankly I have no problem with). Anecdotal, sure, but I can guarantee I'm not the only person who plays in a tournament focused group.
2. The more important point in my mind. Iyanden was written and intended for the 6th edition Eldar codex and it's power level. Not Craftworld's power. No army should ever have access to a GC as an HQ choice, especially not the most cost effective one in the entire game. Iyanden grants that to current Eldar due to allowing Wraith Knights to be HQ choices. Say what you will about Eldar and balance, but 7th edition Eldar was clearly not written with Iyanden in mind.
At the end of the day, you can house rule whatever you want. But in my experience (yes more anecdotes, sorry), most players, clubs, and LGS will base their house rules around the rulings and FAQs of the big name tournaments like NOVA, Adepticon, and BAO. After all, the entire purpose of them making these rulings is to make 40k as balanced as possible so it can work in a tournament setting. And I dare say they have more experience at it than joe shmoe off the street. If they say Iyanden is no longer legal, for whatever reason, I'm gonna go with them because they know how to balance a game system far better than I do.
But wouldn't that make a lot of FW stuff that refers to Imperial Guard invalid as well?
While everyones arguing how terrible the open topped "wanna go for a ride barbie?" Design is, and if farsight is dead, has anyone spotted what looks like a tau themed aegis in the colour picture? Would be surprised if its a scratch build consiserung the rest of the stuff is all.official gw stuff
Bobug wrote: While everyones arguing how terrible the open topped "wanna go for a ride barbie?" Design is, and if farsight is dead, has anyone spotted what looks like a tau themed aegis in the colour picture? Would be surprised if its a scratch build consiserung the rest of the stuff is all.official gw stuff
Tau buildings were mentioned in the earliest rumors, so yeah. And I doubt Farsight will be dead anytime soon!
cheers
Kahnawake
4) Your local meta might be anti-FW. But let's not revisit that debate here
PLS, the Eldar stuff is enough already in a Tau thread.
I don't expect Farsight Enclaves to be useless after the new codex' release, unless they make huge changes to crisis suits and make them OP somehow.
As for the Stormsurge, I see it as a kind of a moneygrab on GW's side; one model will be mostly useless it seems, (but again we haven't seen the codex yet) so buy 3! Maybe there will be a squad box with 3 of them, 10$ cheaper!
cheers
Kahnawake
Your first point is the most solid. We don't know what it will get but we can assume a few things. First it will have some kind of shield but we should expect no better then a 5+ and it will be expensive. The next should be a support option like a positional relay. I expect the third option will be some kind of Stat boost to it or another member of its squad.
Either way, it's a gak option that had an inspired design but terrible content and execution. A little like the first new star wars movie. This has Jar Jar written all over it.
I would like to see O'kais in general. As well as the lesser known but still cool Or'es'ka from Soulstorm who foreseen the Tau doctrine of "Great Strength, Great Strike" and is probably at least inspired some of the new Tau doctrine.
He had the balls to build a moon cannon and bombard a base before every attack. That takes some balls to use so much overt strength and aggression back when the two common paths were more commonly followed.
If not an inspiration he would be a big proponent of his new style of warfare.
Talys wrote: ...difficulty with getting replacement for defective bits...
I just have to nit pick this, just call FW up and they'll replace about any bit you might have problems with. They even replaced some horribly broken bits on some of my Tau stuff which I ordered over 3 years ago (yea took me a while to get around to look at them ), without any questions asked. Granted this might have to do with my order history, but in my experience getting replacement bits is no trouble at all.
Gamgee wrote: I would like to see O'kais in general. As well as the lesser known but still cool Or'es'ka from Soulstorm who foreseen the Tau doctrine of "Great Strength, Great Strike" and is probably at least inspired some of the new Tau doctrine.
He had the balls to build a moon cannon and bombard a base before every attack. That takes some balls to use so much overt strength and aggression back when the two common paths were more commonly followed.
If not an inspiration he would be a big proponent of his new style of warfare.
New Codex don't seem to be getting new SCs? I wouldn't be surprised if Farsight goes to LOW - likely not a good thing but look at what happened to others (orks especially)...............Hell DE lost the majority of theirs in what passes for what they were given as a Codex.
Doubt we will see anything from one of the Computer Games - GW are loath to use stuff from their own Black Library in case they loose ownership to the author.....never mind wider licencesed deals
Actually I dub this new Tau path the "Va'Elan Va'ka". Which translates to great strength, great striker.
I wouldn't just use the Ta'unar on defense like it's lore indicates. I would use it on offense as well. I believe the old guard and ethereals gifted me the honour of being called "Monat". So that would make me Monat'ka'ra". Or one who thinks of himself, and is exiled. Probably one of the lowest derogatory terms that can be given to a Tau.
O'Kais is mentioned in the Farsight Enclave book as one of the students of Puretide that was put into stasis along with Shadowsun, so it isn't too far fetched to think he might make his way into an actual model. I would have like to have seen the 8 from the farsight book be allowed to be special character options on their own for the enclave book without taking farsight himself.
Zelnik wrote: Doing the math, the Stormsurge is inefficient and on the whole, a poor choice for a LOW slot when compared to the other Tau Battlesuit LOW, the Ta'unar.
First, your basic Stormsurge is 360 points base, 375 with the viable weapon option (lets not fool ourselves, the pulse blastgun is a waste of time). Not including any sort of support system and we can expect them to easily fill the 25 points to a nice round 400 points per suit.
Alone, the Stormsurge has one single battlefield role. It sits in the back and shoots destructo-disks. Every other weapon it has, from the rocket pods to the Nerf-rockets really won't do anything of value aside from kill a few troops or put wounds on MC's. By shooting templates you get over its terrible BS, and you have a reasonable hope of hitting SOMETHING (That short range D shot relies on BS3, good luck).
The weapon itself, (pulse driver) is NOT A BAD GUN. It's a long range demolisher cannon that can fire twice. Nothing to be upset about. Everything -else- about the suit is basically useless unless you are shooting at scrub-based infantry. In which case, you will be getting a kill here and there (The SMS is the only thing that ignores cover.)
The stats of the vehicle have been resoundingly ridiculed by everyone here, so I don't really need to go over it. Everyone here knows that if you take just one of these, expect it to die by turn 2 from deep strikers, battle cannons and missile launchers.
Yes, we don't know what options it will have, and we can expect some kind of invul, but it will be expensive.
In order to compete against other LOW, you need more then one. A knight titan or wraith knight can gun-kata across the board and kill the Stormsurge and suffer maybe three wounds as a result. The Blastgun option MAY save you, but if you somehow get spectacularly lucky and land a Destroyer hit, you probably had to move your Stormsurge out of cover to do it, and now it's a sitting duck.
Already the stormsurge outprices the Wraith Knight and most of the Knight Titans for a single model. To compete you need a second one. For around 800 points, you now outprice most other lords of war so you can shoot two more destructo-disks a round. This is not a viable option. Also note that the destructo-disks don't have ignores cover.
The hilariously offensive Destroyer missiles... wow there are no words, the description of accuracy was laughable due to the BS3.
Take into consideration that you can take unlimited wraith knights at 300 points, each a monster in CC, t8, and can shoot two D attacks at 36 a round.
Now lets look at the Ta'unar.
600 points, so about the cost of 1.5 Stormsurges. For the additional 200 points, you pay for great armor, amazing toughness, more wounds, a great invul and most importantly BS4. This thing no longer relies on markerlights to survive.
In the shooting phase, this sucker can drop a 7 inch D blast at 72, great range and quite effective. It's other option is an Apoc Barrage, ignores cover 8/3 pain train (three rolls on the template). Also great because it doesn't require LOS to drop on your enemy. This right here completely invalidates the primary weapon options of the stormsurge.
Secondary weapons are 60 inch tri-axis ion cannons that have two firing modes, 12 shots of 7/3 or 6 shots of 9/2. Both are great choices, one becoming a tank hunting shot. If you want, flip it out for a fusion eradicator for 10 wonderful st 8 ap 1 melta shots at 24 (you give up a lot of range, but it's wonderful against vehicles).
So, it completely invalidates the pathetic destroyer missiles. Better shots, no single use.
Now the defensive weapons. Not only do they let the thing shoot overwatch, but you get 24 TL 5/5 shots. Same number as the max number of shots the rocket pod can get, albeit at less range.
This firepower is easily worth two Stormsurges, and I could make the argument that it's more effective then three storm surges for a fraction of the cost. Seriously.
Best part is right here.
The cost of the Stormsurge is going to be about 150 bucks. Two are 300. Not including taxes.
The Ta'unar? about 350.
Save the money, buy the Ta'unar, destroy your enemies with a real artillary suit.
Completely agree. I'll get a Ta'unar when the dollar/real exchange gets better (probably by the end of next year). Still, I'll proxy the Stormsurge to see if it really is as lame as it sounds for now. Nothing beats a good field test
The ta'unar is undercosted to an extent that makes the wraithknight seem tame. That monster is a 1000+ point behemoth that you only pay 600 points for. A twin double turbolaser destructor warhound is only 200 points off, the wraithknight is 100.
The storm surge is in fact appropriately priced, it just doesn't have a specialist position statistically. You are paying points for a variety of weapons systems that aren't designed to target the same units, and are redundant in most tau armies.
If you only had the giant gun on top, you would be able to knock about 50-60 points off of this surge, it still wouldn't compare to the supremancy, but the only units that do in regards to being undercosted are double pulsar phantom titans and turbolaser reavers.
The issue is, the heirophant is 90 points too expensive. Putting it at 910 points. If the ta'unar is only 900 points then you are saying it is slightly less powerful than the biotitan... That simply isn't the case. Better survivability, MUCH better armament, the biotitan only shows its true potential when you realise it is swinging at initiative 6 with a weapon skill not seen on any gargantuan creature or superheavy walker of its size outside of a few greater daemons.
Forge world only sometimes makes things pay for the excessive range on their weapons, while that does make some sense due to normal table size limitations, the fact is that when a gun has a statistical advantage it should pay handsomely for said advantage.
Nocturus wrote:O'Kais is mentioned in the Farsight Enclave book as one of the students of Puretide that was put into stasis along with Shadowsun, so it isn't too far fetched to think he might make his way into an actual model. I would have like to have seen the 8 from the farsight book be allowed to be special character options on their own for the enclave book without taking farsight himself.
The O'Kais mentioned in the FE book is also in the main Codex. His victories lead to the establishment of the Fi'rios Sept.
Vector Strike wrote:
Zelnik wrote: Doing the math, the Stormsurge is inefficient and on the whole, a poor choice for a LOW slot when compared to the other Tau Battlesuit LOW, the Ta'unar.
First, your basic Stormsurge is 360 points base, 375 with the viable weapon option (lets not fool ourselves, the pulse blastgun is a waste of time). Not including any sort of support system and we can expect them to easily fill the 25 points to a nice round 400 points per suit.
Alone, the Stormsurge has one single battlefield role. It sits in the back and shoots destructo-disks. Every other weapon it has, from the rocket pods to the Nerf-rockets really won't do anything of value aside from kill a few troops or put wounds on MC's. By shooting templates you get over its terrible BS, and you have a reasonable hope of hitting SOMETHING (That short range D shot relies on BS3, good luck).
The weapon itself, (pulse driver) is NOT A BAD GUN. It's a long range demolisher cannon that can fire twice. Nothing to be upset about. Everything -else- about the suit is basically useless unless you are shooting at scrub-based infantry. In which case, you will be getting a kill here and there (The SMS is the only thing that ignores cover.)
The stats of the vehicle have been resoundingly ridiculed by everyone here, so I don't really need to go over it. Everyone here knows that if you take just one of these, expect it to die by turn 2 from deep strikers, battle cannons and missile launchers.
Yes, we don't know what options it will have, and we can expect some kind of invul, but it will be expensive.
In order to compete against other LOW, you need more then one. A knight titan or wraith knight can gun-kata across the board and kill the Stormsurge and suffer maybe three wounds as a result. The Blastgun option MAY save you, but if you somehow get spectacularly lucky and land a Destroyer hit, you probably had to move your Stormsurge out of cover to do it, and now it's a sitting duck.
Already the stormsurge outprices the Wraith Knight and most of the Knight Titans for a single model. To compete you need a second one. For around 800 points, you now outprice most other lords of war so you can shoot two more destructo-disks a round. This is not a viable option. Also note that the destructo-disks don't have ignores cover.
The hilariously offensive Destroyer missiles... wow there are no words, the description of accuracy was laughable due to the BS3.
Take into consideration that you can take unlimited wraith knights at 300 points, each a monster in CC, t8, and can shoot two D attacks at 36 a round.
Now lets look at the Ta'unar.
600 points, so about the cost of 1.5 Stormsurges. For the additional 200 points, you pay for great armor, amazing toughness, more wounds, a great invul and most importantly BS4. This thing no longer relies on markerlights to survive.
In the shooting phase, this sucker can drop a 7 inch D blast at 72, great range and quite effective. It's other option is an Apoc Barrage, ignores cover 8/3 pain train (three rolls on the template). Also great because it doesn't require LOS to drop on your enemy. This right here completely invalidates the primary weapon options of the stormsurge.
Secondary weapons are 60 inch tri-axis ion cannons that have two firing modes, 12 shots of 7/3 or 6 shots of 9/2. Both are great choices, one becoming a tank hunting shot. If you want, flip it out for a fusion eradicator for 10 wonderful st 8 ap 1 melta shots at 24 (you give up a lot of range, but it's wonderful against vehicles).
So, it completely invalidates the pathetic destroyer missiles. Better shots, no single use.
Now the defensive weapons. Not only do they let the thing shoot overwatch, but you get 24 TL 5/5 shots. Same number as the max number of shots the rocket pod can get, albeit at less range.
This firepower is easily worth two Stormsurges, and I could make the argument that it's more effective then three storm surges for a fraction of the cost. Seriously.
Best part is right here.
The cost of the Stormsurge is going to be about 150 bucks. Two are 300. Not including taxes.
The Ta'unar? about 350.
Save the money, buy the Ta'unar, destroy your enemies with a real artillary suit.
Completely agree. I'll get a Ta'unar when the dollar/real exchange gets better (probably by the end of next year). Still, I'll proxy the Stormsurge to see if it really is as lame as it sounds for now. Nothing beats a good field test
That's all fine and good...but this assessment is in a vacuum. Tau are a combined-arms army...each unit has a role to fill, and many cannot operate alone. If you add markerlights into the equation (either in the form of Pathfinders, Stealth Suits with their ML drones, a Skyray, or even a Razorshark), you are presented with a very powerful asset on the field. Remember, it can fire its different weapons at separate targets, too. This is not an offensive weapon; it's a support weapon. Put it behind cover, bubble wrap it with FWs, and flank with your Riptides or XV8s.
Best Seller 1 (removed): Tau Crisis Battlesuit Team
so .. reboxing of them at least then ?
At the very least, this is a sign that these models will be reboxed. Taken into account with the pictures that have been spoiled so far, as you'd be forgiven for suspecting that new kits might be on the way.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:The ta'unar is undercosted to an extent that makes the wraithknight seem tame. That monster is a 1000+ point behemoth that you only pay 600 points for. A twin double turbolaser destructor warhound is only 200 points off, the wraithknight is 100.
The storm surge is in fact appropriately priced, it just doesn't have a specialist position statistically. You are paying points for a variety of weapons systems that aren't designed to target the same units, and are redundant in most tau armies.
If you only had the giant gun on top, you would be able to knock about 50-60 points off of this surge, it still wouldn't compare to the supremancy, but the only units that do in regards to being undercosted are double pulsar phantom titans and turbolaser reavers.
It's not even close to 1000p range; it's the Hierophant that is overcosted. Ta'unar isn't as powerful as a 2xTurbolaser Warhound Titan, so no reason to cost more than it. 700p and it'd be ok. Wraithknight costs less than 300p, not 500p.
spectreoneone wrote:
That's all fine and good...but this assessment is in a vacuum. Tau are a combined-arms army...each unit has a role to fill, and many cannot operate alone. If you add markerlights into the equation (either in the form of Pathfinders, Stealth Suits with their ML drones, a Skyray, or even a Razorshark), you are presented with a very powerful asset on the field. Remember, it can fire its different weapons at separate targets, too. This is not an offensive weapon; it's a support weapon. Put it behind cover, bubble wrap it with FWs, and flank with your Riptides or XV8s.
Erm... so is Ta'unar. And putting the KV128 behind the lines - when will you use the D shot? The Blastcannon asks for you to advance and become an attack unit, losing the idea of "support". You already need to spend points in the Pulse Driver just to really have a good ranged weapon. Point per point, even if the Ta'unar costed twice the Stormsurge, I'd still opt for the former.
Comparing the Stormsurge to the Taunar is pointless, until the rules are published in a book, everything about it, from points cost to statlines to special rules, is subject to change. Even after they are published, they are still subject to change.
Stormsurge needs twice the range on its blastcannon to be really effective. People complain about BS3 all the time on costier units but a proper Tau list it rarely comes into the picture due to proper ML use.
I know its probably not going to happen but i hope it gets buffed from transition from WD to Codex. If the blastcannon had 1-20" range for Str D it would be pretty good for the cost, since 20" isnt that far but its not far enough to reach everything (which is my problem with Wraithknights, 36" CAN reach anything considering their movement)
spectreoneone wrote:
That's all fine and good...but this assessment is in a vacuum. Tau are a combined-arms army...each unit has a role to fill, and many cannot operate alone. If you add markerlights into the equation (either in the form of Pathfinders, Stealth Suits with their ML drones, a Skyray, or even a Razorshark), you are presented with a very powerful asset on the field. Remember, it can fire its different weapons at separate targets, too. This is not an offensive weapon; it's a support weapon. Put it behind cover, bubble wrap it with FWs, and flank with your Riptides or XV8s.
Erm... so is Ta'unar. And putting the KV128 behind the lines - when will you use the D shot? The Blastcannon asks for you to advance and become an attack unit, losing the idea of "support". You already need to spend points in the Pulse Driver just to really have a good ranged weapon. Point per point, even if the Ta'unar costed twice the Stormsurge, I'd still opt for the former.
I do agree that both have similar roles, however if you are limited to one LoW slot, the Stormsurge is a better option. Being able to take three of them per LoW slot is not something to scoff at. That provides extra targets to consider, and also gives it more potential damage if its tied up in CC. It's also physically smaller, which provides an advantage when fighting in dense terrain. Its smaller size also makes it less of a target (you can't tell me that the Ta'unar won't be more of a bullet magnet...subconsciously, bigger models = better targets). Up to three models also means that you can spread the unit out a bit, and thus effectively deny more of the board to your opponent.
You also mention the limited range of the Str D profile...yes, 10" is a very short range...but it is still not worthless. The idea is to make the enemy come to you and eliminate them in your killing zone. It's the embodiment of the Tau philosophy of Kauyon, the Patient Hunter.
I don't think that the Stormsurge should be dismissed outright as a poorer option than FW's Ta'unar. Both bring a lot of firepower to the table, and both have their weaknesses. Also, we have only seen this unit on its own so far. We don't know what kind of synergy this will have with the new or modified options in the Codex. As a whole, I'm optimistic.
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.
The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.
It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.
The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.
Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.
pretre wrote: via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.
The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.
It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.
The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.
Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.
Remember when Tyranids were the army that used the most MCs?
If this is true, that seems fairly solid. A good gun and secondary fire that's much harder to kill than most other foot MCs. Lower Toughness mitigated by what seems to be a consistently good Cover save and Drones shielding.
pretre wrote: via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.
The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.
It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.
The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.
Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.
lol. 18" gun but only increased cover outside 12".
Increased cover outside 12"? The heck? So it doesnt have Stealth and Shroud, it has a unique rule. Drones giving it Shrouded actually makes the drones valuable so theyre no longer just ablative wounds...which kinda sucks lol but its about time we get drones we actually DONT want to lose first
If that ion based weapon has better range im defaulting to it lol. Stealth suits already suffer from being dangerously close to assault range the entire game, this thing is only slightly more resilient because its not T3.
That being said, even if it wasnt an MC, its T5 which is awesome. T4 multiwound models suck, thats why i have terrible luck with crisis suits because they ALWAYS manage to get hit by an S8+ attack somehow even through drone bubbles. T5 dramatically lowers its instasplat odds (yes i know its still got a lot of threats to look for, but nowhere near as many).
pretre wrote: via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.
The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.
It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.
The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.
Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.
Faeit 212 and the "anonymous source" are notoriously inaccurate. Until I see physical proof via pictures, that rumor isn't worth the toilet paper is was scrawled on.
Wow the Ghost Keels sound like the winner so far. Salt required of course.
At a little over 125, we can guess ~130pts so 390 for the unit of 3. Take the ion canons and that 18 S7 AP4 shots at I would assume 30ish inches and add the TL fusion blasters for duality in case you need to crack some armor. With JSJ and pretty much a guaranteed 2+ cover save it's easy to see how annoying this unit will get. With marker light support your going to be out performing Missile sides in every area, especially if they can take VT or EWO.
pretre wrote: via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.
The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.
It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.
The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.
Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.
Faeit 212 and the "anonymous source" are notoriously inaccurate. Until I see physical proof via pictures, that rumor isn't worth the toilet paper is was scrawled on.
pretre wrote: via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.
The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.
It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.
The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.
Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.
lol. 18" gun but only increased cover outside 12".
JSJ is a thing tho. Jump Pack is an amazing unit type.
Vineheart01 wrote: Increased cover outside 12"? The heck? So it doesnt have Stealth and Shroud, it has a unique rule. Drones giving it Shrouded actually makes the drones valuable so theyre no longer just ablative wounds...which kinda sucks lol but its about time we get drones we actually DONT want to lose first
If that ion based weapon has better range im defaulting to it lol. Stealth suits already suffer from being dangerously close to assault range the entire game, this thing is only slightly more resilient because its not T3.
That being said, even if it wasnt an MC, its T5 which is awesome. T4 multiwound models suck, thats why i have terrible luck with crisis suits because they ALWAYS manage to get hit by an S8+ attack somehow even through drone bubbles. T5 dramatically lowers its instasplat odds (yes i know its still got a lot of threats to look for, but nowhere near as many).
MC is amazing mate, those things will have at least 2 attacks each with smash and fear for enemy xenos. That doesn't even mention all the other perks being a MC brings along.
Vineheart01 wrote:Well, that and pretty much any FW option for units outclass any codex unit.
I say pretty much because XV9's suck ass lol. 45pt base and REAL freakin guns would make them usable.
Funny, I've had the opposite luck with XV9's...they consistently were my powerhouses of my army.
pretre wrote:via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.
The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.
It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.
The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.
Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.
Hmm...yet another Elite choice. Definitely some good options, but we definitely didn't need more elites. Here's hoping that this information is either incorrect or that some units are getting their FOC slots shaken up. That being said, definitely sounds like a solid unit. I'd really like to see Stealth Suits moved to troops or Fast Attack....would definitely open things up for some crazy stealth shenanigans!
If those are indeed the rules i could see them completely dominating the Elite slot. Durable enough to cause issues to non-big-bug-killers and strong enough depending on the gun to threaten everything. Best of all, all 3 will have the SAME DAMN GUN - biggest complaint about Stealthsuits.....lol....i hate mixing weapons in a squad unless the weapons can fulfill similar roles. Bursts and Fusions do not want the same targets in the slightest.
And i see no point in giving it the TL flamer. Flamer profile sucks, i really wish we could get a heavy flamer or a torrented normal flamer. TL Fusion adds another semi-guaranteed shot that compliments the main gun, unless its an expensive as gak swap why would you NOT take that lol
Vineheart01 wrote: Increased cover outside 12"? The heck? So it doesnt have Stealth and Shroud, it has a unique rule. Drones giving it Shrouded actually makes the drones valuable so theyre no longer just ablative wounds...which kinda sucks lol but its about time we get drones we actually DONT want to lose first
If that ion based weapon has better range im defaulting to it lol. Stealth suits already suffer from being dangerously close to assault range the entire game, this thing is only slightly more resilient because its not T3.
That being said, even if it wasnt an MC, its T5 which is awesome. T4 multiwound models suck, thats why i have terrible luck with crisis suits because they ALWAYS manage to get hit by an S8+ attack somehow even through drone bubbles. T5 dramatically lowers its instasplat odds (yes i know its still got a lot of threats to look for, but nowhere near as many).
MC is amazing mate, those things will have at least 2 attacks each with smash and fear for enemy xenos. That doesn't even mention all the other perks being a MC brings along.
Oh i by no means am denouncing MC rules. Thats just icing on the cake. Im just saying long as they were T5 i'd be happy lol. The only multiwound T4 model i dont feel worried about wasting points on are MANZ Missiles for my orks because theyre dirt cheap anyway and rarely dont do their job
spectreoneone wrote:I do agree that both have similar roles, however if you are limited to one LoW slot, the Stormsurge is a better option. Being able to take three of them per LoW slot is not something to scoff at. That provides extra targets to consider, and also gives it more potential damage if its tied up in CC. It's also physically smaller, which provides an advantage when fighting in dense terrain. Its smaller size also makes it less of a target (you can't tell me that the Ta'unar won't be more of a bullet magnet...subconsciously, bigger models = better targets). Up to three models also means that you can spread the unit out a bit, and thus effectively deny more of the board to your opponent.
You also mention the limited range of the Str D profile...yes, 10" is a very short range...but it is still not worthless. The idea is to make the enemy come to you and eliminate them in your killing zone. It's the embodiment of the Tau philosophy of Kauyon, the Patient Hunter.
I don't think that the Stormsurge should be dismissed outright as a poorer option than FW's Ta'unar. Both bring a lot of firepower to the table, and both have their weaknesses. Also, we have only seen this unit on its own so far. We don't know what kind of synergy this will have with the new or modified options in the Codex. As a whole, I'm optimistic.
They don't have similar roles - Stormsurge is a light infantry killer with some low AP weapons, while Ta'unar is more than able to destroy Knights. The problem is when, in its fluff, Stormsurge is said to be Tau's answer to Knights and big creatures - which it isn't. Against light infantry, Tau is filled with S5 and even S7 stuff. This is our main consideration with this thing - its like pouring more sugar in an already too sweet coffee.
Regarding sizes: but we want our LoWs to be hit instead of Crisis, Broadsides or Ethereals. If bigger = better target, then let's go big!
3 models are too expensive ($ and point-wise). More than 1,000p for 3 models, which won't be allowed in many tournaments (not that I play them, but still). Even 2 (700-ish points) are already pushing too much for the majority of lists out there (1500-1850). People will mostly field only 1 of those.
As I've said, I'm willing to proxy it. I just won't spend 1 dime on one until I see with my own eyes (and others, via BRs) that it's a good addition to Tau.
Vineheart01 wrote:Well, that and pretty much any FW option for units outclass any codex unit.
I say pretty much because XV9's suck ass lol. 45pt base and REAL freakin guns would make them usable.
Barracudas (flyers), Tetras (Pathfinders) and Ta'unar (Stormsurge) are the 3 real good Tau things in FW that are better than their codex counterparts. R'varna and Y'vahra don't substitute any Codex unit. All other models are underperforming (Remoras can shine a bit, though). So, I disagree with the "and pretty much any FW option for units outclass any codex unit".
pretre wrote:via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.
The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.
It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.
The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.
Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.
Very interesting. If it gets Infiltrate, it'll substitute some of my Fusion Crisis as my AT option. The Ion weapon is a good substitute for Missile Pod Crisis as well.
Without drones, it'll have at least 5+ cover if in a crater, 3+ if behind/in woods/obstacles and 2+ in ruins. All you needd is to put something between it and its enemies with your JSJ.
Remember when Tyranids were the army that used the most MCs?
At the inception of the Tau in GD playtesting of 3rd edition, battlesuits orginally got their start as vehicles units. 3rd edition rule had troubles with this and so the birth of robots acting like augmentation to normal infantry was born!
As the suits get larger and larger, the idea of keeping them as non-vehicular models is getting more absurd. Vehicles have worked them selves out well through the last few editions so it would be a logical jump to put them back into a Jumppacking Walker type of vehicle design.
But I suspect this kind of paradigm shift in Tau design would raise too much commotion....
So we're stuck with monstrous creatures that are really just guys in SUPER SPECIAL 40 ft tall POWER ARMOR!
IF does seem that the Tau design is swingning even more heavily towards giant robot suits.
I wonder what changes will occur to the fire warrior teams. are the changes to the models just an aesthetic rework? or will it introduce a new a type of firewarrior rulewise.(the scope of which being slight or grand)
Werent Tyranids the ONLY MC's for the longest time until the Dreadknight popped up? Or is the Wraithlord older than i think? I started playing right at the end of 5th edition.
I dont know how they could bring our suits to the original idea of walkers and not break us. Vehicles are in an odd state right now where they are either dangerous as hell for the cost, or pathetically weak and waste of time. If our crisis suits became AV11 walkers, i think they'd vanish forever because they'd be utter trash. Flipside, if they went AV12 they could potentially be broken. Think of the Farsight Bomb if they were AV12/12/11 walkers lol.....eesh....
Vineheart01 wrote: Werent Tyranids the ONLY MC's for the longest time until the Dreadknight popped up? Or is the Wraithlord older than i think? I started playing right at the end of 5th edition.
Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Tyranids all had Monstrous Creatures as soon as Monstrous Creatures started being a thing.
Vineheart01 wrote: Werent Tyranids the ONLY MC's for the longest time until the Dreadknight popped up? Or is the Wraithlord older than i think? I started playing right at the end of 5th edition.
Wraithlord is definitly 2nd-Edition-old. Also, Daemons.
Vineheart01 wrote: Werent Tyranids the ONLY MC's for the longest time until the Dreadknight popped up? Or is the Wraithlord older than i think? I started playing right at the end of 5th edition.
Wraithlord is definitly 2nd-Edition-old. Also, Daemons.
Vineheart01 wrote:Well, that and pretty much any FW option for units outclass any codex unit.
I say pretty much because XV9's suck ass lol. 45pt base and REAL freakin guns would make them usable.
Funny, I've had the opposite luck with XV9's...they consistently were my powerhouses of my army.
pretre wrote:via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.
The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.
It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.
The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.
Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.
Hmm...yet another Elite choice. Definitely some good options, but we definitely didn't need more elites. Here's hoping that this information is either incorrect or that some units are getting their FOC slots shaken up. That being said, definitely sounds like a solid unit. I'd really like to see Stealth Suits moved to troops or Fast Attack....would definitely open things up for some crazy stealth shenanigans!
Again though, try to remember that the FOC is next to useless now thanks to formations and formations made of formations with MOAR free stuff.
Seems like junk. If the XV8 remains the same price they get more fusion shots and are still the most efficient anti-tank in our codex.
I hope these aren't the rules. If we get yet more mediocre rules it means we've been nerfed. Three toned down/mediocre units in a row means we have a 70% chance of being nerfed HARD.
Nice, more surprises! I don't like that transfer sheet though. So the old FWs are staying, and the 'new ones' are a completely new set?
Cheers
Kahnawake
Sad Panda wrote: Enforcer/Coldstar is the HQ I think. Notice the singular on the transfer (compare with Crisis).
That said, campaign-stuff should also be coming after the Ghostkeel. Terrain is more than one kit too, I was told.
It's a seperate kit? I assumed you'd be able to make them from the Crisis kit, like the Mek in the Mega Nobz kit or the weird super Zoanthrope/Tyranid Prime in their kits.
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit is the only release next week. The box comes with 3 miniatures, the Ghostkeel and 2 stealth drones costing £ 45/ €60/ $75 USD/ 90 Can/ AU 125/ NZ 150
Automatically Appended Next Post: via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.
The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.
It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.
The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.
Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.
Wait what, where did this "Coldstar" "Strike Team" and "Breacher Team" stuff come from? What are they? any more details than just "Crisis Suits for space"? Keep in mind im workblocked from viewing images
chaos0xomega wrote: Wait what, where did this "Coldstar" "Strike Team" and "Breacher Team" stuff come from? What are they? any more details than just "Crisis Suits for space"? Keep in mind im workblocked from viewing images
It's from a decal sheet which has titles for what each lot of decals are for, and it says Coldstar, Strike team and Breacher team on it.
chaos0xomega wrote: Wait what, where did this "Coldstar" "Strike Team" and "Breacher Team" stuff come from? What are they? any more details than just "Crisis Suits for space"? Keep in mind im workblocked from viewing images
Striker and Breacher will be the 2 units from the new Fire Warriors box. Striker is the Fw team we now, Breachers will have new rules.
Coldstart looks like a new kind of Commander suit.
chaos0xomega wrote: Wait what, where did this "Coldstar" "Strike Team" and "Breacher Team" stuff come from? What are they? any more details than just "Crisis Suits for space"? Keep in mind im workblocked from viewing images
Striker and Breacher will be the 2 units from the new Fire Warriors box. Striker is the Fw team we now, Breachers will have new rules.
Coldstart looks like a new kind of Commander suit.
chaos0xomega wrote: Wait what, where did this "Coldstar" "Strike Team" and "Breacher Team" stuff come from? What are they? any more details than just "Crisis Suits for space"? Keep in mind im workblocked from viewing images
Striker and Breacher will be the 2 units from the new Fire Warriors box. Striker is the Fw team we now, Breachers will have new rules.
Coldstart looks like a new kind of Commander suit.
chaos0xomega wrote: Wait what, where did this "Coldstar" "Strike Team" and "Breacher Team" stuff come from? What are they? any more details than just "Crisis Suits for space"? Keep in mind im workblocked from viewing images
Striker and Breacher will be the 2 units from the new Fire Warriors box. Striker is the Fw team we now, Breachers will have new rules.
Coldstart looks like a new kind of Commander suit.
does that mean the pathfinder box is going?
Pathfinders were redone when the last codex was released a couple of years ago, it's extremely unlikely they'll get any changes.
ImAGeek wrote: At least it looks like the legs are poseable!
Most likely, it's the same pegged semi-ball joint design as the Wraithknight. Standard ball-and-socket, with a peg on the ball, and a hole in the socket.
a) Put the peg in the hole, and you have a rock-solid joint that will never break, but a mono-pose leg.
b) cut off the peg, and you gain some posability, limited entirely by how much interference GW designed around the joint.
I did a lot of rework on my WK legs to get a different pose, but you can see that GW designed the knee joint and calf armor to prevent a deeply bent pose. FOR NO GOOD REASON. With the pieces in "normal" orientation, you can't get much more than a 90-degree bend. Despite the double-jointed knee, which would normally allow for really tight angles. Instead, cutting the peg supports a reverse bend in the knee. WTF?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/724928-WraithKnight%20WiP%206%252F27%20s.html?m=2
Anyhow, hope the Tau suit got better knees & calf armor.
ImAGeek wrote: At least it looks like the legs are poseable!
Most likely, it's the same pegged semi-ball joint design as the Wraithknight. Standard ball-and-socket, with a peg on the ball, and a hole in the socket.
a) Put the peg in the hole, and you have a rock-solid joint that will never break, but a mono-pose leg.
b) cut off the peg, and you gain some posability, limited entirely by how much interference GW designed around the joint.
I did a lot of rework on my WK legs to get a different pose, but you can see that GW designed the knee joint and calf armor to prevent a deeply bent pose. FOR NO GOOD REASON. With the pieces in "normal" orientation, you can't get much more than a 90-degree bend. Despite the double-jointed knee, which would normally allow for really tight angles. Instead, cutting the peg supports a reverse bend in the knee. WTF?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/724928-WraithKnight%20WiP%206%252F27%20s.html?m=2
Anyhow, hope the Tau suit got better knees & calf armor.
Yeah the Riptides the same, it's just they're all posed the same in the GW photos so far where as the Riptide they showed a couple of different ways so I didn't know how posable this was gonna be. But the guy from Warseer's legs already look better.
BrookM wrote: Still, it can do more than an Imperial Knight.
That'd only be the case if the IK didn't even have separate upper and lower leg parts with any knee joints... Oh, wait.
For how pathetically little plastic you get in a WK kit compared the the obscenely large amount of money you spend, it should have far better engineering than what it displays.
It's passable that the WK is somewhat poseable.
It's inexcusable that the IK legs are fixed.
It's laughable that the Ork Stompa doesn't even have legs to pose.
The Tau SS legs are significantly *better* than the WL legs, simply because they were designed with a maximum bend as one of the static poses. Those legs and feet will straighten and extend for some really nice dynamic poses.
The anchors are goofy, and would not work in the real world...
I knew it would be that big. Yay for having good perspective.
Too bad it looks so good but I just don't like the rules. The Ghostkeel on a second thought could be useful. Assuming the rules are correct. Useful but not amazing.
So far our only amazingly mind blowing unit is the Ta'unar. Which is what it seems I'm getting first.
Gamgee wrote: I knew it would be that big. Yay for having good perspective.
Too bad it looks so good but I just don't like the rules. The Ghostkeel on a second thought could be useful. Assuming the rules are correct. Useful but not amazing.
So far our only amazingly mind blowing unit is the Ta'unar. Which is what it seems I'm getting first.
I have to agree, the new big suits don't really bring a lot to the table - or fill any role in a dramatic way - (we have plenty of S7, S5 etc. A 10" D is not very impressive, and requires multiple markers, etc.) - none of them are bad - they just don't do a lot. (as opposed to say a tetra - a mobile markerlight that is not T3 5+ save or require a command slot...).
The FW suit - it is indeed nice, and does bring a ton of survive-ability - it also brings a lot of S8/9 ....not that we strongly needed it, but its not bad.
Overall, a decent unit - I would rather have it a bit under powered (well, compared to other D class titans - don't compare it to nids...but they are just terrible) than OP.
Talys wrote: Hmmm.. I really like those Tau decals
They're not bad, but kinda dull and lack something distinctive imo.
Cheers Kahnawake
They're not meant to be hugely distinctive?
They're generic transfers for a specific Sept.
Yeah, exactly... also, I like the decals because they're not overly flashy, add subtle yet distinctive accents and, when applied correctly, won't actually look like a decal
Generally speaking, I'm not a fan of the over-the-top decals.
"This awesome bundle gives you everything you need in order to field the Armoured Interdiction Cadre, as found in Codex: Tau Empire. You’ll receive three TX7 Hammerhead Gunships, bristling with seeker missiles, ion cannons and railguns, and one TX78 Sky Ray Gunship, featuring twin-linked smart missile systems and burst cannons."
"This awesome bundle gives you everything you need in order to field the Armoured Interdiction Cadre, as found in Codex: Tau Empire. You’ll receive three TX7 Hammerhead Gunships, bristling with seeker missiles, ion cannons and railguns, and one TX78 Sky Ray Gunship, featuring twin-linked smart missile systems and burst cannons."
Well well well, that's interesting!
The Armoured Interdiction Cadre is an Apocalypse formation.
Calling it now, Rapid Insertion Force is making an appearance as a formation as well.
Co'tor Shas wrote: That was an old apoc formation, gave them anti-armour bounes and free marker tokens. Maybe its' a formation in the new book?
The special rules were just the Marker Tokens. D3+1 Markerlight 'hit markers' per turn whilst the Command Tank(Hammerhead) was still mobile. They had to be placed at the start of the Tau shooting phase within LOS of the Command Tank--unless when they redid Apocalypse they added more.
Did not see this posted, so here goes from the Warhammer App:
Oc-tau-ber is here
The Tau Empire is resurgent this month, with a whole host of books coming your way from Black Library and Warhammer Digital about the bold defenders of the Greater Good. Brand new fiction, rules, supplements, and painting guides are afoot (or maybe 'ahoof' since we're talking tau...). The Ethereals would be displeased if we revealed all now, but you can be amongst the first to find out about each new release by signing up for newsletter reminders. We'll send you an update whenever a new title is released, so you can spread the word like a Water Caste ambassador on a heathen world. Head over to the website to sign up now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Co'tor Shas wrote: Oh, I thought it gave them tank hunters? It's been a while.
The Firebase Support Cadre(6 Broadsides and a Riptide) had that; along with granting Space Marines Hatred against units from the formation.
So Codex Tau and the Farsight supplement are no longer available, but you can still order the digital codex. They moved the Gun Drone Squad to Troops recently and now its listed as no longer available. Yep, sounds like Games Workshop to me
For some reason I'm on the aus, but it's $885 for them.
For a second I was like "WTFGW, you only priced them at $250AU each."
Then I realised you were on the NZ store. You'd be on the NZ store because you've clicked one of the links here to see the pre-orders (which go to the NZ store, and the GW site remembers which store you visited last and uses that as the default)
For some reason I'm on the aus, but it's $885 for them.
For a second I was like "WTFGW, you only priced them at $250AU each."
Then I realised you were on the NZ store. You'd be on the NZ store because you've clicked one of the links here to see the pre-orders (which go to the NZ store, and the GW site remembers which store you visited last and uses that as the default)
We're different, dammit!
Ehh, the flag looked Australian.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It appears they have updated the NZ page, but not anywhere else.
Okay Tau players, is this a new Crisis suit silluette? I can't tell..
From the Stormsurge box, on the back.
This silhouette can be mostly achieved with current kit's "L"shape-Arms and by tilting the torso back to make the head way higher up than the jump jet intakes than normal. Knees not being bent is not helping either.
I haven't known any of their stock photoshoot suits to be in that pose though
Posting these because they might be a hint confirming the rumored "Raven Guard v. Tau" Campaign:
Spoiler:
ABOUT THIS BOOK
256-page hardback. Contains the following stories:
Prey (previously available as an eBook)
Helion Rain (previously available as an audio drama)
With Baited Breath (previously available as an audio drama)
Old Scars (previously available in an event-exclusive book)
Labyrinth of Sorrows (previously available as an audio drama)
The Unkindness of Ravens (previously available in a limited edition format)
By Artifice, Alone (previously available in an event-exclusive book)
Spoiler:
ABOUT THIS BOOK
384-page hardback. This book contains the following stories:
The Arkunasha War by Andy Chambers (previously available as an eBook)
Fire and Ice by Peter Fehervari (a brand new story)
Aun'Shi by Braden Campbell (previously available as an eBook)
A Sanctuary of Wyrms by Peter Fehervari (previously available in 'Deathwatch: Xenos Hunters'
Commander Shadow by Braden Campbell (previously available in Hammer and Bolter magazine)
Out Caste by Peter Fehervari (previously available as an eBook)
Shadowsun: The Last of Kiru's line (previously available as a hardback novella)
The Patient Hunter by Joe Parrino (previously available as an eBook)
The Kauyon by Andy Smillie (previously available as an audio drama)
The Tau'va by Andy Smillie (previously available as an audio drama)
It has.
1. Fusion blast template gun. Otherwise mostly same statline.
2. What looks like either a single twin linked FB or two FB.
3 It has a twin linked flamers which can be upgraded to either twin linked burst cannon or a single fusion gun.
I assume it's left arm with the weird antenna thing is the fusion gun upgraded from the flamethrower.
So it has a max potential of up to four fusion shots if we take all the fusion upgrades for it. One of them being a blast. Or a little less but some twin linked depending on how the rules go.
For around... 125-135 ish depending on cost. It also seems to have a stat line of a little bit weaker Riptide.
Yea I can't see how this thing won't completely replace XV8 fusion teams. Finally freeing them up for other tasks. Woo hoo.
Now let's hope the info and my deductions hold up.
Gamgee wrote: I assume it's left arm with the weird antenna thing is the fusion gun upgraded from the flamethrower.
That would be the twin-linked burst cannon (top) that can be upgraded from a twin-linked flamer (bottom). It can also be upgraded to a twin-linked airbursting fragmentation projector. No fusion guns according to the White Dwarf leaks.
Those aren't exactly small sprues, and it looks like a substantial instruction manual is required for assembly. I'm not defending the price tag, just saying that you should expect to pay about as much as an Imperial Knight for this kind of model.
From the layout of the transfers I think we can assume the following. Firewarriors come in a box of 10, make two different builds. I am hoping the three extra transfers mean the box will come with 3 drones like the pathfinders. Crisis suits come in a box of 3. Commander in a box of one, makes two options.
Those aren't exactly small sprues, and it looks like a substantial instruction manual is required for assembly. I'm not defending the price tag, just saying that you should expect to pay about as much as an Imperial Knight for this kind of model.
Those 3 sprues are the same size as the sprues as a Wraithknight, and just as ludicrously overpriced as a Wraithknight. That is NOT a good thing.
A kit that size should be priced more like a Valkyrie, not like a Baneblade.
It hasn't officially been listed in any of the other GW country stores. So its likely an error. Still if that's the correct price for you I'm sorry for your pain.
Those aren't exactly small sprues, and it looks like a substantial instruction manual is required for assembly. I'm not defending the price tag, just saying that you should expect to pay about as much as an Imperial Knight for this kind of model.
Those 3 sprues are the same size as the sprues as a Wraithknight, and just as ludicrously overpriced as a Wraithknight. That is NOT a good thing.
A kit that size should be priced more like a Valkyrie, not like a Baneblade.
Why do you think the Wraithknight is criminally underpriced points-wise? Because it is overpriced model-wise. So GW makes a killing by screwing the game's balance up.
Zelnik wrote:The only thing that concerns me about the Ghostkeel is it's position in the force org. Another elite makes our most crowded slot even more crowded.
Keep in mind that the rumors about the Ghostkeel rules are about as reliable as bathroom graffiti at GW headquarters. Fro all we know the Ghostkeel is another gargantuan creature.
Those aren't exactly small sprues, and it looks like a substantial instruction manual is required for assembly. I'm not defending the price tag, just saying that you should expect to pay about as much as an Imperial Knight for this kind of model.
Those 3 sprues are the same size as the sprues as a Wraithknight, and just as ludicrously overpriced as a Wraithknight. That is NOT a good thing.
A kit that size should be priced more like a Valkyrie, not like a Baneblade.
Why do you think the Wraithknight is criminally underpriced points-wise? Because it is overpriced model-wise. So GW makes a killing by screwing the game's balance up.
Zelnik wrote: The only thing that concerns me about the Ghostkeel is it's position in the force org. Another elite makes our most crowded slot even more crowded.
Don't worry, the Tau Formation will take care of that particular problem.
With both the Ghostkeel and the Storm Surge coming in squads of 3, it makes me wonder if we are going to see Riptides in Squads of 3 as well this edition.
I'm hoping FW finally get heavy weapon drones, or heavy weapon upgrades to squad members. Or both! Ion Rifles and Rail Rifles for squad upgrades, and Plasma and Missile drones.
BTW guys, did you notice Broadsides are sold out on the site? Does that mean GW wants to force us to purchase the entire Firebase support cadre instead of separate models and moved their stock of broadsides there? If yes that would be a dick move...
Kahnawake wrote: BTW guys, did you notice Broadsides are sold out on the site? Does that mean GW wants to force us to purchase the entire Firebase support cadre instead of separate models and moved their stock of broadsides there? If yes that would be a dick move...
cheers
Kahnawake
Hu, weird. When I look at the site right now it seems like the Broadsides are still in stock, but the Pathfinder teams are sold out on the main site.
Kahnawake wrote: BTW guys, did you notice Broadsides are sold out on the site? Does that mean GW wants to force us to purchase the entire Firebase support cadre instead of separate models and moved their stock of broadsides there? If yes that would be a dick move...
cheers
Kahnawake
Hu, weird. When I look at the site right now it seems like the Broadsides are still in stock, but the Pathfinder teams are sold out on the main site.
Both are in stock over here (UK).
Oh no, they're not. They both say not available when you click on them. Probably just reboxing them.
Kahnawake wrote: Yeah I think you guys are right and it's the reboxing. I just hope we won't get huge price raises for new boxes and a new transfer sheet...
cheers
Kahnawake
I don't think they will. The Sternguard and Vanguard boxes for preorder this week are reboxed with new bases and they're the same price.
Both Pathfinders and Broadsides are down as "Sold Out - No Longer Avaialble"
I assume they are re-boxing them and then re-releasing them at the same price, that seems to be the norm when tweaks are made to boxes or bases.
I really hope they aren't playing games to sell new kits or hiking the prices. I just bought an airbrush kit in anticipation of this release, but as ever I'm waiting to see what they do and ready to say 'screw you GW, I'll spend my money elsewhere'.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Firebase Support Cadre is now the same.
Maybe theres just massive demand at the moment. As far as im aware that has only been an available this morning!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Devilfish and stealth team too
Zelnik wrote:The only thing that concerns me about the Ghostkeel is it's position in the force org. Another elite makes our most crowded slot even more crowded.
Our most crowded slot is Fast Attack. Elite is the most useful, but nowadays we have... 3 choices.
Formations will take care of FOC problems. The only reason to use a CAD is for FW models (which I have in spades )
Gamgee wrote:So if I understood the rules correctly.
It has.
1. Fusion blast template gun. Otherwise mostly same statline.
2. What looks like either a single twin linked FB or two FB.
3 It has a twin linked flamers which can be upgraded to either twin linked burst cannon or a single fusion gun.
I assume it's left arm with the weird antenna thing is the fusion gun upgraded from the flamethrower.
So it has a max potential of up to four fusion shots if we take all the fusion upgrades for it. One of them being a blast. Or a little less but some twin linked depending on how the rules go.
For around... 125-135 ish depending on cost. It also seems to have a stat line of a little bit weaker Riptide.
Yea I can't see how this thing won't completely replace XV8 fusion teams. Finally freeing them up for other tasks. Woo hoo.
Now let's hope the info and my deductions hold up.
Judging by the 'leaked' rules, it'll have only 2 weapons - a blast fusion (changeable for a ion weapon) and a TL flamer (changeable for a TL fusion). The thing in it's left hand could be the stealth multiplicator
Is it just me, or do you save nothing non the suit formation this time?
I'm sure I brought it last time around because the riptide was essentially free?
Jackal wrote: Is it just me, or do you save nothing non the suit formation this time?
I'm sure I brought it last time around because the riptide was essentially free?
GW bundles are recently only slightly cheaper than buying all the minis separately. And if you buy from retail sellers or on-line, you spare a lot of money buying separately... So yeah I kinda see no point in buying the whole thing on GW's site.
No, GW Bundles is not cheeper at all, They always offer a saving of zero moneys. The boxes can save you money (Like the Tyranid Swarm box saves you like almost 50% of the price of buying it all seperately..) But the bundles only saves you clicks.
Zelnik wrote: Will admit, the stormsurge would be quite effective against bugs. And only bugs.
This....this made me laugh.
I have to admit, when comparing the stormsurge to most other armies (imperial, eldar, crons, demons, etc.) it feels very...underwhelming...not bad per se, just underwhelming.
Then I think of tyranids - yeah....the poor bugs. They would kill for a unit like this....or be killed by it.
Actually, I would prefer formations of Hammerheads. Squadrons are too limiting, save for hit allocation. Formations allow you to split your fire, and you can still reshuffle your tanks to hide a damaged on behind the undamaged ones if you need to.
Zelnik wrote: Will admit, the stormsurge would be quite effective against bugs. And only bugs.
This....this made me laugh.
I have to admit, when comparing the stormsurge to most other armies (imperial, eldar, crons, demons, etc.) it feels very...underwhelming...not bad per se, just underwhelming.
Then I think of tyranids - yeah....the poor bugs. They would kill for a unit like this....or be killed by it.
Contrary to some posters you can compare this thing to being 2 carnifexes with FNP, and those are laughably easy to kill, the difference is you were nice enough to put them in 1 gigantic spot and spend more points to do so.
It will be unlikely you will ever anchor it against a decent player and its weapons are just meh. Even fire at double at B5 it struggles at killing a tactical squad in the open, and gods help you if go against grav.
I still don't understand why it is open topped, lol. Why would you have an exposed crew compartment on a vehicle destined to have large amounts of firepower directed at it?
Though, even aside from that it's a fairly silly looking model, both in practice and in concept. A multi-crewed skimmer tank would be a far more effective platform for that firepower. And it isn't like the Tau lack that capability in their tech.
But new Fire Warriors and Crisis Suits would be a good thing. Having worked with them, those two are among the worst kits GW offers right now.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: Though, even aside from that it's a fairly silly looking model, both in practice and in concept. A multi-crewed skimmer tank would be a far more effective platform for that firepower. And it isn't like the Tau lack that capability in their tech.
Yes, but this is true of every faction. The benefits of building a giant robot that can fall over, versus a floating weapons platform, is virtually nil. Imperial Knights, Wraithknights, Warlord Titans, all those things would be better off being on treads instead of having legs. To put it in perspective and scale, simply remove the legs from a Warlord Titan and build ginormous treads, and you can just crush the trees (or orks) in front of you. And why put a pilot in the head or the center of a torso? The crew should be in a heavily armored core.
But these things aren't made to make sense... they're made to be giant robots, because giant robots are more cool than practical tanks
Contrary to some posters you can compare this thing to being 2 carnifexes with FNP, and those are laughably easy to kill, the difference is you were nice enough to put them in 1 gigantic spot and spend more points to do so.
Doesn't that just sum up the problems with the game - what was once a big scary unit - a Carnfex now just arrow fodder.
Plus of course the Carnfex does not get the near immunity to posions and shed loads of other special rules the Tau Walker - Sorry its a GCreature get . Its likely better in Clsoe Combat given stomp :( Yeah that makes sense............
The other problem is that to many it seems about right for its points but because its not stupidly broken like the Wraith Kinght - its usless..............
Contrary to some posters you can compare this thing to being 2 carnifexes with FNP, and those are laughably easy to kill, the difference is you were nice enough to put them in 1 gigantic spot and spend more points to do so.
Doesn't that just sum up the problems with the game - what was once a big scary unit - a Carnfex now just arrow fodder.
Plus of course the Carnfex does not get the near immunity to posions and shed loads of other special rules the Tau Walker - Sorry its a GCreature get . Its likely better in Clsoe Combat given stomp :( Yeah that makes sense............
The other problem is that to many it seems about right for its points but because its not stupidly broken like the Wraith Kinght - its usless..............
Ai, I remember how scary MC were in fourth, especially fexes due to their numbers and versatility.
Now...not so much.
Contrary to some posters you can compare this thing to being 2 carnifexes with FNP, and those are laughably easy to kill, the difference is you were nice enough to put them in 1 gigantic spot and spend more points to do so.
Doesn't that just sum up the problems with the game - what was once a big scary unit - a Carnfex now just arrow fodder.
Plus of course the Carnfex does not get the near immunity to posions and shed loads of other special rules the Tau Walker - Sorry its a GCreature get . Its likely better in Clsoe Combat given stomp :( Yeah that makes sense............
The other problem is that to many it seems about right for its points but because its not stupidly broken like the Wraith Kinght - its usless..............
Ai, I remember how scary MC were in fourth, especially fexes due to their numbers and versatility.
Now...not so much.
The only scary creatures are Walkers pretending to be creatures
Contrary to some posters you can compare this thing to being 2 carnifexes with FNP, and those are laughably easy to kill, the difference is you were nice enough to put them in 1 gigantic spot and spend more points to do so.
Doesn't that just sum up the problems with the game - what was once a big scary unit - a Carnfex now just arrow fodder.
Plus of course the Carnfex does not get the near immunity to posions and shed loads of other special rules the Tau Walker - Sorry its a GCreature get . Its likely better in Clsoe Combat given stomp :( Yeah that makes sense............
The other problem is that to many it seems about right for its points but because its not stupidly broken like the Wraith Kinght - its usless..............
Ai, I remember how scary MC were in fourth, especially fexes due to their numbers and versatility.
Now...not so much.
Carnifexes have sucked since 3rd. Even dakkafexes are overrated.
Ravenous D wrote: Contrary to some posters you can compare this thing to being 2 carnifexes with FNP, and those are laughably easy to kill, the difference is you were nice enough to put them in 1 gigantic spot and spend more points to do so.
It will be unlikely you will ever anchor it against a decent player and its weapons are just meh. Even fire at double at B5 it struggles at killing a tactical squad in the open, and gods help you if go against grav.
Carnifexes don't have Interceptor, Skyfire or a 4++ which is almost a guaranteed add on the Stormsurge.
Multiple S10AP1 blasts are not going to struggle against Tac squads or even Grav Cents. It has a Skyfire D weapon that you can combo with Ignore Cover, it has 60" range missiles that hit at AP1, it has Stomp and a 12" move, it's got tons of S5 in a single unit that will economise Markerlights... this is good. It will handle FMC, drop armies, Gladius MSU, Decurion, hordes, whatever. At 400-ish points each with upgrades, you are getting close to 2x Stormsurges for the price of a super tuna + bubblewrap or even a maxed-out FSC. That's a very respectable comparison.
I think a lot of the hate is due to players who wanted an ultra-durable castling gunline centrepiece, instead they got a door-kicker with a shotgun. A curveball Tau list with 2 Stormsurges could win LVO, and Tau players would probably still hate it due to T6/3+ and the anchoring mechanic. It all seems a little irrational.
Ravenous D wrote: Contrary to some posters you can compare this thing to being 2 carnifexes with FNP, and those are laughably easy to kill, the difference is you were nice enough to put them in 1 gigantic spot and spend more points to do so.
It will be unlikely you will ever anchor it against a decent player and its weapons are just meh. Even fire at double at B5 it struggles at killing a tactical squad in the open, and gods help you if go against grav.
Carnifexes don't have Interceptor, Skyfire or a 4++ which is almost a guaranteed add on the Stormsurge.
Multiple S10AP1 blasts are not going to struggle against Tac squads or even Grav Cents. It has a Skyfire D weapon that you can combo with Ignore Cover, it has 60" range missiles that hit at AP1, it has Stomp and a 12" move, it's got tons of S5 in a single unit that will economise Markerlights... this is good. It will handle FMC, drop armies, Gladius MSU, Decurion, hordes, whatever. At 400-ish points each with upgrades, you are getting close to 2x Stormsurges for the price of a super tuna + bubblewrap or even a maxed-out FSC. That's a very respectable comparison.
I think a lot of the hate is due to players who wanted an ultra-durable castling gunline centrepiece, instead they got a door-kicker with a shotgun. A curveball Tau list with 2 Stormsurges could win LVO, and Tau players would probably still hate it due to T6/3+ and the anchoring mechanic. It all seems a little irrational.
First, blast weapons can't hit flyers or FMCs/ FGMCs. Even if they have skyfire they can't. Besides, the D is at 10", not a real game-changer, except against something like an assaulting knight (and if the knight survives, the suit is beyond dead because of the knights CC abilities and weapons). And those big scary missiles, are actually just 4 seeker missiles without the ability to to fire ignoring cover+LOS for s single marker. Not anything new at all. In fact, they are worse than seekers.
Also, we have no ideas what the support system retriciton in the codex will be, or even what will be removed. It will probably have a sheild generator available (judging from the pics), but probably the same as a riptide (5++), so it's not a big deal).
Now, I'm not one of the crowd who things this thing is weak, it seems very balanced to me, neither weak nor strong, I just find it underwhelming in what it does. We seriously don't need more anti-horde.
Also new box art in the new colour scheme. They like to keep things consistent across a range. This probably means that all the Tau stuff will be roboxed eventually.
Co'tor Shas wrote: First, blast weapons can't hit flyers or FMCs/ FGMCs.
That double D shot should be swatting down a HVT like Fateweaver, Belakor, or a pimped-out Flyrant. With a 12" move you've actually got fairly decent range.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Reboxing with the new decals maybe?
Or just reboxing in general (or did Pathfinders already have the current 'grey style' box?)
Battleforce is going to be nixed, that's a guarantee at this juncture.
We'll see a new box in the $160-$230 range that gives you an army right out of the box, in the same vein as any other release we've had lately.
Pathfinders just would be a rebox to include the new decals, go to the "background" box and as someone else mentioned be repainted in the new color scheme for promo shots.
Thay are on ebay for $118, no tax, free postage. That is the way I'll go.
Im tempted to do that too. but im usually skeptical of cheaper-than-retail price things that just released.
Theyre probably recasts. Which, personally, doesnt bug me since ive never had a problem with "new in box" ebays and i intend to kitbash this thing anyway lol.
Contrary to some posters you can compare this thing to being 2 carnifexes with FNP, and those are laughably easy to kill, the difference is you were nice enough to put them in 1 gigantic spot and spend more points to do so.
Doesn't that just sum up the problems with the game - what was once a big scary unit - a Carnfex now just arrow fodder.
Plus of course the Carnfex does not get the near immunity to posions and shed loads of other special rules the Tau Walker - Sorry its a GCreature get . Its likely better in Clsoe Combat given stomp :( Yeah that makes sense............
The other problem is that to many it seems about right for its points but because its not stupidly broken like the Wraith Kinght - its usless..............
The proper nid players are fairly quiet on this thing for some reason, as a person who has run nids for a decade there is a valid reason you don't run T6 w4 sv3+ models that walk. 'Cause they're dead before you know it.
Poison is a non issue as its really only dark smeldar that have it on mass, and frankly they have enough of it to drop the pooh-surge,
And wraithknights are terrible, any good player can drop one in a turn, they do great against people that don't know how to deal with them. They are so bad in competitive environments, the only time they do well is when you can spam them. Otherwise just take more hemlocks and jetbikes.
If you are building an army you have to be able to counter a few things in the current meta:
1) Invisibility, anything that stops this is gold
2) Cover, now that thunderdome is a thing
3) Imperial wraith knights
4) Jet bikes
Get those bases covered and you can wreck anything. Its why lictor shame and mawlocs do so well.
Thay are on ebay for $118, no tax, free postage. That is the way I'll go.
Im tempted to do that too. but im usually skeptical of cheaper-than-retail price things that just released.
Theyre probably recasts. Which, personally, doesnt bug me since ive never had a problem with "new in box" ebays and i intend to kitbash this thing anyway lol.
....feth it i did it lol
I really doubt that. (1-($118/$150))*100% = 21.3% discount. When 20% is fairly common from many legit online retailers I don't think that extra 1-2% should make you jump to thinking it's a recast.
I think saying one model or another is bad or good is a little premature due to having no information about unit synergies, army wide special rules, etc.
Yes, you can compare it to other models from other codexs of equal points and see how they compare to each other and you may find one lacking. But as to how it works in its own codex is still very much up in the air without knowing any other information. Heck, you cant even compare the Stormsurge to a Riptide at this point because we have no idea how or if the Riptide has gone through any changes.
First, blast weapons can't hit flyers or FMCs/ FGMCs. Even if they have skyfire they can't.
That is wrong. Just because ITC ruled it that way doesn't make it true.
BRB wrote:Hard to Hit
A Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature is a very difficult target for units without specialized weapons. Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as Snap Shots unless the model or weapon has the Skyfire special rule.
Note that this is different from the Flyers Hard to Hit rule:
BRB wrote:Hard to Hit
Zooming Flyers are incredibly difficult targets for troops without suitably calibrated weapons and scopes. Shots resolved at a Zooming Flyer can only be resolved as Snap Shots (unless the model or weapon has the Skyfire special rule). Template and Blast weapons, and any other attacks that don’t roll To Hit, cannot hit Zooming Flyers.
The difference is very clear. Flying vehicles cannot ever be hit by blast/template weapons, but FMC's can if the weapon in question has skyfire.
Did...did I seriously just read someone state the Wraithknight is a terrible unit? Someone has the most mind-numbingly warped view of game balance I've ever seen.
Do note that the Stormsurge is a GMC. Poison only hurts it on a 6+. Any army that relies on poison is gonna struggle against this thing. Is it as durable as it could be? No, it's actually really fragile. But then again that's always been Tau's problem. We have good saves, but our toughness is really low, so we always have to make a ton of saves and anything that makes it through those saves is gonna wreck us.
First, blast weapons can't hit flyers or FMCs/ FGMCs. Even if they have skyfire they can't. Besides, the D is at 10", not a real game-changer, except against something like an assaulting knight (and if the knight survives, the suit is beyond dead because of the knights CC abilities and weapons).
Well, in fact you can lob blasts or templates on FMCs, if you have Skyfire. Only Flyers are immune to those.
And GCs can't overwatch, so it's even worse for the SS
First, blast weapons can't hit flyers or FMCs/ FGMCs. Even if they have skyfire they can't. Besides, the D is at 10", not a real game-changer, except against something like an assaulting knight (and if the knight survives, the suit is beyond dead because of the knights CC abilities and weapons).
Well, in fact you can lob blasts or templates on FMCs, if you have Skyfire. Only Flyers are immune to those.
And GCs can't overwatch, so it's even worse for the SS
Wait, really? That's sort of dumb... We just play them the same in my group. I guess we're all just oblivious idiots.
It had always bothered me that big was always given bonus and no negative stats. Ok so poison wounds on a 6 only. We get that. But GMC's should be easier to hit then. They are freaking huge. +1 to hit rolls??
But then GW goes around in cycles of one type of unit being the best. As someone pointed out Carnifexes used to be scary, Terminators used to be deadly. Many iconic units left for dust in the arms race.
I live these big centre peice kits but smaller scale units need to matter.
So a Baleflamer Heldrake can choose to shoot at a FMC, therefore gains skyfire for the phase, and can now target an FMC? I never saw this at a gaming table, we always thought it is not allowed. Are you sure that is correct?
Where do I go to vent about a model that is clearly a vehicle being treated as a GMC? Why haven't dreadnaughts been made into monstrous creatures? The picture on the GW main-page show this is clearly an open-topped vehicle...
There are rumors that the ghostkeel will have some sort of enemy weapon disruption mechanic and that it will have a cockpit in the torso as well, pilot included. I wonder if that's true lol, can't wait for official photos.
The fusion collider with its blast template, either two fusion blasters or a single twin linked fusion blaster, and the shield thing looks like a a fusion blaster.
This would match up with the rumored rules quite well. I'm hoping for the 4 weapons myself. That makes it an extremely competitive weapons platform. With 3 weapons it's good but not that good. If it has two like some people think? Lol. Never hitting that table over cheap fusion suits.
Gamgee wrote: Yeah I estimate it has between 3-4 weapons.
The fusion collider with its blast template, either two fusion blasters or a single twin linked fusion blaster, and the shield thing looks like a a fusion blaster.
This would match up with the rumored rules quite well. I'm hoping for the 4 weapons myself. That makes it an extremely competitive weapons platform. With 3 weapons it's good but not that good. If it has two like some people think? Lol. Never hitting that table over cheap fusion suits.
It will only have two weapons (arm weapon and twin-linked shoulder weapon), I'm pretty darn sure about this. If the new rumors are anything to go by then it has some sort of Neural System Jammer in its other hand. And yes, it will have limited uses (being comparable to fusion Stealth suits rather than Sunforge+1 Crisis suits), exactly like the Stormsurge.
You can see the fusion blaster barrel on that arm with the antennae. It looks like that device is a shell around the weapon system in that arm. It couldn't be anything else it's the perfect fit and shape of the fusion guns on its shoulders. Look closely. Or it could be something new, but it is a gun.
Gamgee wrote: You can see the fusion blaster barrel on that arm with the antennae. It looks like that device is a shell around the weapon system in that arm. It couldn't be anything else it's the perfect fit and shape of the fusion guns on its shoulders. Look closely.
Nah, the arm thingie has only one "barrel" and lacks the cooling slits as well as those flask-things.
Your right I took a super close look. So it's a gun of some kind? I swear if this is GW's idea of what an ECM device is I'm going to rage.
ECM in real life is not a gun. It's electronics.
Maybe they mean a CIWS style gun that shoots down incoming projectiles? Either way I senses some GW stupidity on that model incoming.
If it only has 2 guns I'm never putting it on the table. Not worth its cost increase at that point. Two guns. Weak ones at that for its role. *sigh*
I got a feeling your right now. This Tau update might continue sucking. Still I hope its some sort of gun. We need some anti-tank weapons other than fusion suits. Or make HH's viable or HRR. Something. Right now we don't need any of this since we got other suits that do it better as a tank hunter.
Hmmm 130 points for two fusion shots. Or 52 for two on a crisis. Hmmm..... HHHMmmmmmmmm.... I wonder what I'm going to pick. The only thing worth it on the 95 with only two guns is its... anti infantry guns. Oh boy yay. More anti-infantry.
), without any questions asked. Granted this might have to do with my order history, but in my experience getting replacement bits is no trouble at all.
Never! There ain't no gettin' offa this train we're on!
